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The Banter Page
help
If you're wanting to get something off your chest, make general comments about the server, or post lonely hearts ads, then this is the place for you.
None
So here we go, a new MC server. I'm not sure we need another one of these, but I'm willing to hear suggestions.
None
Before I unleash this on a specific public, I ought to check the simulpost mechanism.
None
Cor. It works. Enjoy!
None
By the way, I'm actually away for a couple of days, so if you break it, it won't get fixed for a while. (On the other hand, this gives you some opportunities to try breaking it!)
None
*sends champagne crashing into bows* rab, you might want to think about disabling the winning move in the Long Game; other than that, splendid work!
None
Congratulations on a beautiful bouncing baby, um, thing!
None
Cabbage crates over the briny!
None
Cheers all. Glad the whole thing hasn't (yet) fallen on its arse. [Watty] Next on my list is some sort of admin tool for precisely this purpose. In the meantime, I suggest setting the winning move to something unguessable.
None
I note also this site is unusable under Netscape 4.76. It makes a really crap job of the CSS rendering this box I'm typing into completely unusable. I'll think of a fix before unleashing this on a more general public,
None
Good luck rab, I'll pop back again after tea ... and done washing up ... and put the boys to bed ... and polished their shoes ...
None
Posting now from Netscape 4.76... let's see if it works!
Bugfix
For some reason, the option for Crescent a l'orange on the "new game" page wasn't being honoured. I think it is now. In any case, move headings have been added to this banter page. In principle, this (and the long game) should also be unwinnable.
Up and running
I think we can now consider this thing to be up and running (although heed the caveat on the front page at the moment). I would be interested to hear any ideas for feature enhancements. Currently I have the following ideas:
  • Permalinking technology exists at the back-end (i.e. one can specify a range of posts to show in the URL) but I need to find some way of generating the appropriate links. This can probably wait until we have a few more posts.
  • I may well add a 'search' facility at some point (again, more posts are required before this becomes useful).
  • I might add a login feature so that the server can remember things like which games you're playing, award prizes for stunning play and so on. (NB this seems to be controversial, but the point is you won't be obliged to use this feature).
  • A side-effect of something I have planned elsewhere on this site would be to have an editable MC reference. Obviously we already have the Encyclopaedia at !York, but I think it would be cool to have an editable, searchable volume here. Ideally one would wish to transfer the Encyclopaedia entries over from !York, but I don't really know what's happening to maintenance of that server.
Anyone got any ideas? I know PaulWay has mentioned a few at Orange-- now I've made this NS4.76 compatible, perhaps here would be a good place to discuss such things.
Ooooh!
Looks good, rab! At least in Phoenix 0.5/Win32. Also ... care to add a link to PantsMC (pantsmc.cream.org)?
Browser versions
It's fine on ArcWeb 1.92, which is about 6 years old, and it's fine on Orengano 2. So the Acorn community is happy. :-)
rabbing
Just to say - this is nice. Not too fancy, yet perfectly formed. The makings of a classic. Now can I start an alternative dictionary game?
nice 'ere innit?
Well done rab. I'm just going to have a poke around...
Yippee!
Blessed are the site makers particularly those that have a late arrivals game.
snoofles along
Why is apropos there anyway?
just testing
2342GMT - just to let you know what time I'm posting. Bring on the cast!
Yet more MC
Been busy rab! :) Looks neat and tidy on IE6, though some colours are a bit 'iffy'. Might have to see what it looks like on Mozilla to check any differences. Cheers.
Freakout
Checking in. I think I'll go by my abbreviated name on this here site, folks, as I cannot use a handy six-character passcode. I notice we can start our own games here. If I can persuade that dratted Kezar frm preening himself for five hours, anyone object to us starting a round of 'Chirades'?
None
*sends congratulatory telegram*
The nascent site
Arrghhh - Yet another cause of work not getting done .... Well done, rab ... I shall now go and have a little explore ...
Childish behaviour
La-lah! I've got my name on all the games on the front page!
Welcome!
Hello ev'ryone. I may have been a bit misleading about the use of NS4.76. You can use this site with that browser. But it looks really rubbish if you have CSS enabled. I will work on an option to turn off CSS on these pages if you insist on using a dodgy browser. Anyway, let's let the play continue!
Origami
[SM] Oregano 2. Does that mean yer 32-bitted or summat?
Hello, Good Evening, and Welcome
Looks worth a try ...
Is that latin?
OK. Very nice. More opportunities to waste time. Yay!
Breaking it
How's the

HTML validator?

nothing really
Hello
Now Rich, that was naughty :)
None
HTML balls up report. My fault. The short game has gone on STRIKE.
Not to worry
Fixed. God knows how the HTML checker let that through. Oh well, that'll give me something to do on a cold winter's evening no doubt.
None
HTML checkers fail at the mention of my name.
None
Ah yes, I did find the line saying something like if name contains 'bob' then ignore bad_html, so it turned out that deleting it sorted everything out!
Insert witty line here
Ooh, a new shiny thing...
Browser
Posting from Opera seems to work fine...
(erm sorry - Bob the dog)
That would certainly liven up Remembrance Sunday.
For those of you listening in black and white, the front page now reads "last post by...".
None
[PaulWay] Nice of you to join us, sir!
Apropos? Apropos a toast!
Nice work rab... look forward to exploring.
Try this
Testing testing Mmm... tastes OK so far.
  • Item 1
  • Item B
  • item iii
Yup.
Wot? No name colours?
Well done. My only quibble is name colours, a ruse I use to find out the last time I posted in a game so that I can read everything since.
Are you planning to implement hot links?
Sorry
"Well done, Rab" ought to have been in bold. PHP for ever!
Name colours
It was a concious decision to strip HTML tags from game titles and names to stop messing up the front page. I am planning to do hot links, and hope to implement some sort of smart catch-up feature in the longer term. I could add name colouring a la MCiOS as a little extra too. Sadly, I also have a job so these things might take a while to filter through.
A humble proposal
Might I suggest having links at the bottom of each game to the main page, like the other MC servers do? Otherwise it's a pain pressing the back button twice to return to the index. Well, it is if you're as feeble as I am.
None
Twice if you've just made a move, you see.
None
mmmmmmmm? .... little pointy things at the bottom of the page....?
Well spotted
I appreciate these buttons are nonobvious. I will get around to providing the text alternatives to these so waving your mouse over them makes their purpose more obvious.
Hamster-eating
Any takers for a Headlines Game?
Oyez! (offstage) Oh no!
Why not? One word at a time, as per usual, or some cunning variation on a theme?
html
Would someone be so very kind as to nod me in the direction of a link where I my discover such advanced (to my tender brain) html commands as putting things in color ("red" in "red" for example), even a few short written instructions may suffice. You may mail me at kolesh@free.fr. Thank you so much, and Bravo rab!
Fancification
[Artaud] This page gives you an overview of the basics. One of the things it don't mention is font colours. Do those by enclosing the text in <font color="red"> ... </font>, eg like this. I wouldn't rely on the HTML-checking technology to sort out all your problems though!
PS
[Artaud] Somewhere your browser will have a "view source" option-- this will reveal many secrets.
Use the source, Luke... I mean Artaud
So if someone uses a particularly interesting shade then you can copy it...
exposure
Rab, you're a cad sir! I imagined that the "expose all" button above would merely show all the moves made in a game so far, however my colleagues and I are currently in a state of panic having been denuded by one button click.
As I type this frantically from under the desk with only a copy of last weeks overtime sheet (offering scant protection) I can only hope you rectify the problem soon. I didn't even know php could *do* this!
and more seriously
A couple of minor suggestions: a way back from the complete page to the latest - a "reclothe" button? :) - and a jump to bottom of page link would both be very useful.
Looks great so far, love the muted colours.
triple post sorry!
Just noticed the logo top left leads to http://www.rab.org.uk/ rather than the crescent homepage... Is this deliberate?
Suggestions
I'm all for suggestions, so keep 'em coming. The logo top left does redirect to my main page since as my site grows, this will be the standard way to get to the home page. Alternatively, it could take you "up" I s'pose. Wait and see on that one (had realised it was misleading).

I could add the buttons you suggest. Yessir. Whacking it on "Things to Do" list now...

None
[Rab] Exquisite soothing niceness, this site. I bow in your general direction to allow the light bouncing off my bald head to bathe you in its rays.
More suggestions
I like; the pastel shades, the neat and petite navigation button (keep it - it is good), the intro bar above each game, the ability to choose the winning move. I miss (from other MC games) consecutive lines in the limerick game (the gap makes it awkward), 'see whole game/last current move' links, automatic name labelling for next comment or move.
Ideas box contributions: a punchy title ('more crescent' is a bit quiet. Off the top of my head, Rabs Crescent, More Nington or Pleasant Crescent or how about an abstract title like Slap My Jammy Badger. Change of 'skins' (as per orange) only with different pastel shades, a players profile page updateable by players (as per Yet Another). One thing I’ve always wanted with an MC game is a link to a spare page to which players can upload images for a caption competition game. This may already be possible, but I'm a dullard and don't understand these things!
None
[BtD] You don't want much, do you? ;o)
One at a time
[BtD] I'm glad there's something you like! Now, to address your points:
  • Limericks games. Whoever started it (DrQ?) chose "game headings". I can turn these off since I too dislike them. Should I do this?
  • See whole game is there, once the game is long enough (look at the top of this page, for example). As I said, I'll add "jump to the bottom" and "reclothe" when I have a few minutes spare.
  • Auto name labelling was there originally, but I think it disappeared at some point during an "upgrade". I shall attempt to reinstate it.
  • Punchy title. The title was deliberately understated, but I'm willing to hear suggestions.
  • Reshading: this was one of my customisation ideas.
  • Updatable profiles (and possibly encyclopaedia) are On The List. (But note "I have day job" caveat).
  • Caption competition... interesting. Either this could go as a separate type of MC game or maybe a completely different interactive part of my site completely... I shall think about this. Allowing people to upload images makes me feel slightly queasy from a storage point of view, but I could impose a suitable filesize limit I suppose.
Dictat
Since this is a benign dictatorship, I've remodelled the limericks game to make it more user friendly. (Some comments have vanished, but I can reinstate these if people complain about the censorship).
And another thing...
I'll let you guys get on with the chatting eventually, but I thought I'd point out that the game limit on this server is set quite low to avoid treading too much on the other servers' toes. I note, for example, that Dunx has a ticket available for quite some time now, an unusual state of affairs, and I wouldn't wish to draw custom away from the more established places. However, if the demand is there, I can up the game limit at some point.
Re: Points
  • Thanx!
  • Goodie.
  • Goodie goodie.
  • Suggestions above.
  • Goodie goodie goodie.
  • Goodie goodie goodie goodie goodie gum drops.
  • You will need to monitor what is uploaded for content as well as file size. Suggest emailing to you to upload?


Re another thing.
I've always thought that there are too many games on the go on most servers. Good move!

Now all those Goodies have given me an idea for the Beige Allegro game...
PS. This is the first time I've tried a list. If it hasn't worked, none of this will make any sense. Sorry.
exciting colours!
I just wanted to try it to see if it works..woooooohooooo!. what other colours are there?
my eyes may hurt
Is this one?
None
and this?
Sorry...
<
SORRY...
>
Doh
Forget I mentioned it.
*forgets*
Discovers 'Zen' moves aren't allowed. Cool!
Hexadecimalisation
Snorgle you could try this range of colo(u)rs.
ooh hex, that brings back memories..
Cool!But isn'tcolour >misspelt? what if I do this?
Potatoe
Looks like the Americans got there first for a change.
Gee, ain't those colors quaint...
Well, while the WWW is a European invention, the internet and the first picture browsers are American as apple pie. I suppose.
But anyway, I find it more amusing to see what colour various ludicrous phrases are, rather than hexadecimal.
obviously some people have way too much time on their hands..
Why do different phrases come up with different colours? Is it a hex thing?
Enhancement, kinda
Update news: On Netscape 4.76, the CSS is suppressed by default which means that it looks halfway sensible. You can override the default behaviour by adding &nocss=1 to the URL to disable CSS. If you want to explicitly turn it on, put &nocss=0 instead. Now there's still a little buglet regarding the background of some of the images, which I'm going to try and resolve.
Technical point
If some of the buttons (the "pointy things") have a black background, convince your browser to reload them and things should be ok. (On Netscape, you do Shift-Reload, for example).
boggled
Not enough chat. How is the week going for everyone? Mine's fine, bit samey, but a meeting tomorrow may shake it up a bit. I'm going to ask for more holiday. After five years, you'd think I was entitled to a bit more than 21 days, wouldn't you? Insert agreement here...
inserting..
Yes, absolutely! You have my permission to take the rest of the year off, on full pay.
Holiday
*nods vigorously*
re-boggled
21 days? Luxury! I get 21 minutes once every three years and have to be back down t'sewers half an hour before t'holiday begins. I'm so badly paid I had to knit my own swimming trunks out of used dental floss. I get lots of funny looks but at least I smell nice and minty.

Penelope - how did it go?
Gone Away
Hmm. In all other respects, my boss is fantastic to work for. But it's so long since he was employed (rather than being an employer) that he seems to have lost touch with what's what. He didn't believe that most people get more than 21 days a year, forgot that 20 days was the legal minimum, and when we did a quick poll around the office (five people in total, including him, is the entire company) and everyone said they'd had 25 days a year holiday in our previous jobs, he refused to believe us. In the end, we had to poll the postman too. Even Post Office workers get 25 days a year, it seems. So... the upshot is we can either have more holiday, or more pay, but not both. I think I might be taking a few more days off sick this year. (I haven't done so for a year or so as I have perfect health and don't believe in colds, but I have taken a few days compassionate leave over the past year). What's the recommended dose?
Lost time
I've had the misfortune to have found an empty chair in a local government ofice several years ago. The accursed National Agreement gives me 30 days leave, but the worst ignomy is clocking in and out everyday builds up the flexitime which due to its 28 day cut off means another 13 days annually. I just haven't got the time to go off sick.
Hols
[pen] Count me in the 25 day club too - though three have to be taken at Xmas leaving just 22 for spreading around the year. But I'm one of the fortunate ones - new joinees here only get 20 days (less 3 for Xmas).
Apparently (and I boggled slightly when I was told this) the 20 day minimum includes bank holidays - so as there are eight (I think) of them per year, the real minimum allowance is just 12 days. But I wouldn't advise letting your boss know this.
escape time
Holiday? Well, it depends on the definition for me. What does and does not constitute a holiday for an academic (particularly as the nature of the job means that much of the work can be done anywhere and at any time)? If I'm sat working at a laptop computer, is it a holiday just because I'm on a beach in the Carribean? (I'm not by the way, I'm at a desk in Nottingham, but a man can dream, damnit).
But strictly, it's 30 days. Plus public and University holidays. But don't argue for academic style holidays, or your boss may argue for academic style pay...
Lost weekends
Did I mention that I work some weekends without time off in lieu? It's the nature of my job, race meetings, etc. If they fall on a Bank Holiday Monday, we do get the days back, but ordinary Sunday race meetings mean a lost weekend. Now do you feel sorry for me?
Permission
I'm self-employed. The benefits are many, especially as I a mum. However, on occasion a wistful sigh escapes, because I would love to be granted set holidays and have someone's 'permission' to down tools and relax. Goes both ways, I suppose. By the way, hello Penelope and all. Nice site and very easy on the eye. Have been a devotee of Wildpants MC for well over a year [and dabbled in YAMCS] so I recognise a few names.
Holidays
I lose count, but I think I'm on about 140 weekdays holiday a year...
Hi Chalky
I agree. This is a good site. [Re Hols] I don't really get many hols and have to work weekends too more often than not. This is because: a) I work for a not-for-profit org (long hours, low salary - result of overactive conscience) and b) I'm a pillock. I could insist on taking the full 25 days I'm owed if I really wanted to.
Recurring welcome
Welcome Chalky. Pants is one of the sites I don't visit very much (no real reason) so I'm pleased we have some people from there creating a unique blend of something-or-other. [BtD et al] Glad you like the site. I'd like to stress that this is as much your place as mine, so stick your feet up, make yourself at home and I'll try and put any suggestions into place that people want. Apart from the fact I'm supposed to be writing a journal article as we speak, but there you go. I would like to hear suggestions for a site name. Like Dan, I'm not particularly keen on having my name attached to the place (unless there's a good pun lurking...). Other than that I don't have any feelings on the matter, so sharpen your brains and let me know your thoughts.
Holidays
Oh, academic contract, so all these concepts are, erm, academic.
I forgot
As I was reminded this morning, we usually get given three days off at Christmas, so really I do get just about the average quota. My boss actually stuck his tongue out and went 'ner-ner-ner-ner-ner' when he pointed that out this morning, I guess I had him pretty pissed off with my complaints. Of course, then I had to apologise profusely and make the tea... he has now skived off for the afternoon. *sigh* There's one rule for them and another for us...
I am the us...
As an employer, I shall note your comments. Anyone coming to me for an increase in holiday will get the 'ner-ner' treatment and be expected to supply beverages. Thank you.
Vacation
Like rab, ibid, and others I'm an academic (actually now sort of a freelance academic/consultant, but that's another story). It's a job with many advantages, not least of which is a remarkable amount of control over how you spend your time. But -- and this is a big but -- success in academia is primarily judged by your ability to write journal articles and publish them in good places. Which means that when rab says "I'm supposed to be writing a journal article as we speak", he is echoing something that is true for us academics all the time: we are always supposed to be writing journal articles. So -- like Chalky -- we always tend to have the sense that we should be working, and it is sometimes hard to take holidays. There was a cartoon once which showed a professor sitting up in bed and saying to his spouse, "How can I sleep when I know that someone in some other time zone is writing an article right now?"
[Ibid] I don't think I knew you were also in academia. What field?
Holidays
I'd point out that I didn't get any time off over Christmas or New Year at all, and was indeed still at work at 11 pm on Christmas Eve - but I'm too spartan to complain!
Sorta kinda academic
A staff member of an academic institution. Namely, [sys|net]admin of Department of Physics & Astronomy, University of Pittsburgh. Combine the occasional perks of the academic life with the drudgery of 8:30-5:00 hours and unpaid overtime. But at least I can evangelize Linux/*BSD to the Micro$oft-haters.
Rab MC titles
How 'bout Mind the rab?
or Blythe Spirit...
I've saved this site to favourites as RabMC. Short and honest.
None
[rab] I'm afraid that, like Bob, I have this bookmarked as rabMC, but if you really must avoid the use of your name how about Mornington Crescent in Outer Mongolia? Or am I misremembering your location? (fx: ducks)
Whereabouts
[BtD, matt] Maybe rabMC it is then. There must surely be something better. [matt, specifically] If you mean outside the M25, then yes...
re:re:re
Beige Crescent? ;o)
MC who ?
I'm afraid you are simply MC 5 on my shortcuts - having taken over the slot originally available for Huxley's late lamented site.
None
MC5 is kinda cool! Like the site, honest and understated. Gets my vote.
RabMC!
Actually, it'd probably be MC 8 by that standard, assuming you include Delphi, YAMCS, and Beer-Powered.

It's been RabMC in my bookmarks since the original announcement.
Five alive
MC5, or perhaps MC5 for that element of millenial chic, might do the job.
Up the arts
And one could also go up that poncey TeX route and insist that the official pronunciation is "mukf" or something... Sorry if that means nothing to most people
None
Yup. Lost on me. MC5 Is good!

Is York! down? I can't get it at the moment...
Whizzy whizzy whizzy
My first post from my new whizzy laptop. Hurrah. Should make maintenance of this site much more easier...

[BtD] Can't get to !York, and I'm on an .ac.uk domain so it's either a server problem, or it's bitten the dust (though if the latter, I reckon jim would've told us.

MC5
As E=mc2 then perhaps Ec3 would be enigmatically fitting.
Empsey Five
Yeah, I like MC5, too. Sounds like a mobile phone network. Not that my opinion counts as I'm hardly ever here.
millennialism
Actually you could make it even more modish, by going lowercase... mc5
yay!
Yay for whizzy laptops!
Right
Looks like mc5 it is then. Hmmm... hadn't catered for the possibility of markup in page titles, so I've got a bit of tinkering to do. But laptop+weekend might make this a possibility.
Ec3
Of course EC3 is an area of London - unfortunately not the one that includes M.C. itself. It is in fact the the area around The Tower.
MC5
MC5 is a great name, but there are 4 musicians from the sixties who might hold claim to ownership of that name. Not that any of them are probably in any state to understand any more. Yay! Kick Out The Jams!
Alperton Einstein
Blob] I’m no mathmagician, but does this mean that mc= √e?
er..
Only if e=(mc)2 - which I don't believe it does.
m5, see?
Finally got round to dropping back in! Going good still - yay!
mc(hup)5 has a ring to it alright... [snorgle] you asked a while back about while phrases come out as colours - I recall a conversation in depth about it elsewhere - can't remmber the server but I read Orange, !York and Outer Space regularly so a search of the full text of their chat games might illuminate (or at least colour-in)
What I remember as the reason is that the first six letters are converted to hex and used as the colour code... not sure if there's more to it than that...
Colours
I think it was MCiOS, but I can't be sure.
Hello!
Has anyone else caught on to 'Celebdaq', the fantasy celebrity stock exchange hosted by BBCi? I'm checking my portfolio every 20 minutes and have already had to ditch all my Jude Law shares this morning. Catherine Zeta-Jones is performing well though - dhe made me about £50 overnight.
Well, Hello!
[pen] No, but sounds a lot more lucrative than the real thing.

Just thought I'd share the latest bit of highly targetted advertising to land in my mailbox, which will make sense to those of you who've met me:

Be Beautiful - Get everything you need for fabulous curly hair. Treat your hair to Curl Friends and get everything you need to achieve bouncy, super soft curls with incredible definition and flawlessly fine shine. Curl Friends caters to your curls concerns with specially formulated hair cures that work great in any combination without weighing hair down. Need more shine, less frizz, something to fend off the fly always? Curl Friends has got you covered with products designed especially for the particular needs of curly hair.
continues in this vein for about half an hour....
Hair
[rab] I just got that one too...
Sell, sell, sell
[pen]Thanks for the tip, I bought some celebs earlier today, I'm down £133 already, but I hope to stop this with Anthony Hopkins.
celebdaq
Yay! I've moved from 71,000th-ish on the leaderboard when I started a week ago to 22,238th today! I've made £7,500 in a week. Now I'm just waiting for my Tony Blackburn shares to go up...
share & enjoy
[pen] looks like great fun - shame the site runs soooo slow (or is that just me?).
Celebs
Here's a link to it.
maintenace
Everytime I've tried to sell this morning, a message appears about the market being suspended for regular maintenace, I want to sell Christina Hamilton and buy Daniel Day Lewis. I'm stumbling around placing 83300.
celeb no go
I can't even log in at the moment. The title page appears so quickly but anything after that times out.
Ditto
I'm having the same problem.
Working now
. . . and my Nicole Kidman shares are doing very nicely. Daniel Day Lewis up 1p and judging by the current news, I'm glad I bought some Victoria Beckham.
celebrities
I guess that after the weekend's TV exposure, the site is experiencing more traffic than usual. I can't even get the log-in page right now. Try late at night when all the bored dweebs have left the office!
celabrities (sp)
Wish I'd bought Beckham and Fergie at the weekend when I saw Man U were going down the pan. Should have guessed that the mad old Scotsman would have a news-making strop. Of course, to do so would have required me to remember my password...
Password
I had trouble with my password - until I found both your password and username are case sensitive.
Buy! Buy! Buy!
BTW chaps, remember that you have to have been in possession of your shares for at least two and a half days (I think that's right) to qualify for the dividends, paid out on the basis of column inches at the end of every week. So don't expect to get paid dividends on anything bought after this lunchtime (Weds). On the other hand, if you can sell something that's in great demand at a profit and find another escalating share to invest in this week, then you're doing very well. I don't even know who half these people are...
ranked 45768
So far a gain in the last week of 7.91% I have various shares in Anthony Hopkins, Catherine Zeta Jones, David Beckham, Nicole Kidman, Natalie Imbruglia and Daniel Day Lewis, most of them as a result of buying the first name on the ticker tape. The first two days I had Sadie Frost but sold her as soon as her name disappeared, there seem to be a lot of pop idol movement on Will Young and Ms Dynamite at the moment, but that probably has to do with the up and coming Brit Awards. pen]can you explain what kneecapping is?
ranked 59829
Disappointed in my Eminem shares - dropping rather badly. Reasonable gains in Gwyneth Paltrow and Chris Martin (who gain some column inches due to breaking up). Glad I grabbed some Alex Ferguson shares though - up 11% since purchase. Even Charlotte Church has gone up 5%. [Kneecapping] Isn't that when you get over one million, they give you a boat icon and knock your cash back to 10000?
An economist writes....
An interesting thing about this market is that they have set up a (real, cash) reward for the person who gets the best weekly improvement in their portfolio. If people are motivated by this reward, rather than the fictional one of wanting to have a high-valued portfolio, then they will adopt very different trading strategies. For example, if you want a chance for the cash prize, you should be going for very high-risk investments, since you don't care about the downside if they go through the floor, but they give you the best chance of the (real, cash) upside.
Music Meastro?...
The Brit Awards have been going on tonight looking at the list of winners I am little suprised at the industry bemoaning poor record sales. I put this down to the companies here pandering to the short term pop idol market which does not create a large fan base or following. I do have faith that there are good performers and songwriters out there which is why I am pleased to see awards for Coldplay and Ms Dynamite. The award ceremony being notable from the list of major absentees
BRITISH MALE SOLO ARTIST Robbie Williams, BRITISH FEMALE SOLO ARTIST Ms Dynamite,BRITISH ALBUM Coldplay: Rush of Blood to the Head,BRITISH GROUP Coldplay Parlophone,BRITISH SINGLE Liberty X: Just A Little,BRITISH URBAN ACT Ms Dynamite,BRITISH DANCE ACT Sugababes,BRITISH BREAKTHROUGH ARTIST Will Young,POP ACT Blue, INTERNATIONAL MALE SOLO ARTIST Eminem,INTERNATIONAL FEMALE SOLO ARTIST P!nk,INTERNATIONAL ALBUM Eminem: The Eminem Show,INTERNATIONAL GROUP Red Hot Chili Peppers,INTERNATIONAL BREAKTHROUGH ARTIST Norah Jones,OUTSTANDING CONTRIBUTION TO MUSIC Tom Jones V2
Missy D?
Ms Dynamite - not convinced. Seems to be able to rap, but can't sing for toffee. The chorus for her song Miss Dynamite-ee-eeee or whatever is nabbed from somewhere else (forget where now), and the backing vocals are nicked from 'Pass the dutchie on the left hand side' (no joke). Robbie Williams was a surprise, especially considering the quality (or lack of) of his last album. Liked Swing when you're winning though. Eminem. Well, I'm just not going to go there. Tom Jones - yay. Norah Jones, well I fancy her, and her the bits of songs that I've heard are good as well. Will Young. Hmmmmmmmmmm. Coldplay - could be worse. Sugababes - well, would have gone for Jamiroqui myself, but I haven't a clue what Sugababes have done. Red Hot Chili Peppers - aren't they like years old? Or am I getting mixed up? Blue - who? Liberty X - don't care.

Thus spake the classically changed musician who knows nothing about popular culture :)
money, money, money
Graham III] There used to be Brit Awards for classical music, do you have nominees for this year? ie British album , International Album .. etc?

Divi payout on celebdaq absolutely thousands, time to buy some Jacko and Chris Martin. Ranked 10278 worth £36032 +260.32%.

classics from the attic
Last years Brit categories
  1. Contemporary music award
  2. Female artist of the year
  3. Male artist of the year
  4. Ensemble/orchestral album of the year
  5. Young British classical performer
  6. Rover album of the year
  7. Biggest selling classical album in the UK
    Critics award
  8. Outstanding contribution to music award 2002 - Andrea Bocelli.
Callousical Brits
Give me the Gramophone awards any day... I don't keep up with the reviews, so I don't really know.

Celebdaq - started at 5 o'clock, was listening to 5 live, and got the Brit award winners within minutes of them being announced, so quite cheap. Only Eminem hasn't performed... Currently lying 30000ish but early days.
Brits
Coldplay is possibly the most overrated band at the moment. Which makes a change from Oasis, I guess. Anyway, this kind of thing is always subjective. Meanwhile: The new Massive Attack album sounds like middle-period Cure. Discuss.
Brits
Hmm, well I'm officially outside the age span they market singles to by a long way, so I'm not surprised there are bands on there I've never heard of. As for the Chilli Peppers, the band has been going a long time, but they're now off drugs and producing more succesful albums again, so it's more of a comeback thing. Oh, and I had Ms Dynamite for the Celebdaq thing ages ago, as I was sure she was going to come out with comments on Dubyas planned party in the gulf sooner or later.
modishness
Ages ago we were talking about the "brand" for this site and settled, it seems, on mc5 - at the time I created an illustration of what I meant by that modishness, but couldn't upload it till now...
Cedition
Actually, it's just occured to me that you could be even more economical and just add a cedilla: mç
titles, hits and misses
[Projoy] very nice. The font reminds me of those Cherry Lips sweets you used to get that would cement your jaws together.
Another tale of woe from the dating front. Just been out on another first date... he drank seven pints and I had a single glass of wine. He sang along (badly) to my Elvis CD on the way home. He had a great time, wants to see me again and invited me to a rugby weekend in Amsterdam (among other things). I've stalled him for the moment, telling him to call me in the week when he's sober. In the meantime, your opinions please... is it bad manners to drink a considerable amount like that on a first date? I'm hoping he's lost my number already!
mc5
Rab] - thats fantastic:o)
Pen]He's obviously comfortable with himself - however, seven pints on a first date? Either he needed to steady his beating heart or he is just rude. Ditch him. Or go with him to Amsterdam and discover the truth...
Fantasm
[BtD] I suspect that comment may have been directed at Projoy. I may steal that image and incorporate it somehow, if that's ok.
Dinks
I think even I would hesitate to drink seven pints on a first date.
Uploads
Just done some uploads, but I'm not sure it's necessarily working properly as my auto-update tool isn't doing what it's told. Erse.
Nevertheless
It still seems to be working so I guess we're in business. For now, at least.
Dates
[Penelope] I think drinking politely in small groups requires no one party to get too far ahead of the other, so yes, I'd say he was being rude. If you don't like him, perhaps you should just say so. I went on a blind date about eighty years ago and I told the person that it would just be a waste of both our times if we were to meet again. It was the honest approach and of course I didn't have to go through that rigmarole of letting them down gently. Btw, my recommendation for future first dates is not to have them at all and start with the second! :)
Dates again
Just come back from a first date myself. One glass of wine each, and it seemed to go ok! I agree with Thos though, skip the first date and start with the third. Better still go out with someone you know quite well already...
MC5
Erm, yes, Projoy - very nice logo.
Any fellow music lovers may find the reviews on this page interesting. Apologies for cross-posting.
Date the Third
And what if I told you that my best hope of making a good impression was to go out with someone who had never met me before and knew nothing about me? ;o) Seriously, I think he's a bit of a tit and if he calls me I'll respond along the lines Thos suggested.
Mariella
[pen] Giving this some thought I found myself going into Mariella mode, namely that it's probably not the drinking that's the problem, but it's the person that's the problem. You seem to have reached this conclusion independently, so I'll just shut up and let you get on with your quest.
no logo
[rab] But of course! Hm. Looks like you might need a version with the same grey background, or perhaps a transparent gif version. Will see what I can do this week.
Um
The version above is supposed to be a transparent PNG, so it may be the case that your browser doesn't support them. (I know this to be the case for at least one version of Internet Explorer on Windows, for example).
png but no pong
My browser is IE 6.0.2800.1106.xpsp1.020828-1920 if it helps.
None
Or, indeed, if it matters, which it probably doesn't, on reflection.
None
[Projoy] Maybe not. I think I know how to fix it so it works everywhere... but really I think IE should display transparancies properly, for goodness sake!
Transparencies
[rab, Pjy] I've got IE6, Mozilla and Opera on this computer. Only Opera renders the transparency correctly, both IE6 and Mozilla putting the logo in a little white oblong.
Correction
Sorry - I was maligning Mozilla unfoundedly - it gets it right too. I could explain why I thought it didn't ut it's too boring.
Bum
Interestingly IE 5.2 on this Mac renders it fine,
IE6
IE6 PC - not working as a transparency.
Writ Large
Sir, my client, one Projoy, of no fixed abode, cyberspace, has advised me that whilst he is agreeable, in principle, to your usage of his patented MC5 motif for the purposary useage of enadvertisementation he must insistify on appropriate counter-enroyaltied remuneratory recompensite consideration. He has accordingly placed the matter in our ten hands. Messrs Thos, Thos, Thos and Salteron are otherwise businessingly engagemented so our Mr Thos is dealing with this matter personally. It is our contentioned argumentary position that the artistic loss suffered by our client by cause of repeated sight of the enmotifary logomark by divers cybertravellers and the subsequentary enboredomulation that transpirifies is worth a caramac in anyone's promisery note-based mechanism of exchangification of goods, chattels and servicements. Please provide the consequentarily invoiced confectionables forthwith or we'll send the lads round.
soppy rite
[Thos, Thos, Thos, Thos and Salterton] You're fired. But I still want that Caramac.
cooldom
I forget to mention that that's one classy logo.

That's one classy logo.
Defence
[Thos, Thos, Thos, Thos and Salterton] I intend to put credits on this site somewhere at some point. I shall also present you with a coconut next time our paths may cross.
A design pedant writes
But what about the said Caramac?
Writ Largesse
[Rab] Our services having been dispenserated with by our former client, one Projoy, we are now in the market for representing respected cyberdesigners who have unwittingly been envictimisatified by logomarketeers with one eye on the main chance who hoped to enbully innocent personages such as yourself in order to achieve the procuralment of caramacalised chocolate substitutements for personal and weight gain purposes by means of legalisationed enmissivement from a firm of solicitors. Would you therefore be enwilling to commissionalise us to serve counterclaimary documentation to this character of ungrateful malefactory bearing? p.p. Thos for Thos, Thos, Thos, Thos and Salterton.
Actionment
[T4&S, S] Yeah.
my feet are cold
"The Banter Page" and "Now its time to play Mornington Crescent" headlines are a bit difficult to read - they're so bold the spaces almost vanish..
headlice
[snorgle] Don't see any problem here (Mozilla, 100% text size)
Browsing
[snorgle] What browser are you using? It might just need some gentle tweakage of the html/css combination to get an acceptable look'n'feel across browsers.
dancing
IE 6.0.2800.1106 (if thats any help..)
Celebdaquiris all round!
Made it to 8,900th-ish in the rankings after today's divident payout!
Congratuladaqs
[pen] Nice one! - I'm 4000 behind you. Not enough divs! :o(
To be a Texan
Right, that's me off to Texas for a week. Try not cause too much havoc in my absence. I'll attempt to poke my head round the door if/when I can while away just in case. ttfn.
Awuga! Maths/physics joke alert!
[Boolbar] What about grads or curls?
Lead ballon
This week I decided to go for divi instead of ranking sticking with Kylie instead of Jessica Tayor, dropped overnight from 7962 todays ranking of 9965. Spent the divi on J-Lo and Jacko.
cold feet again. must get slippers.
[rab]It's even worse now! Have you done something?
celebdaquring
18000 - which could be worse, considering I hadn't done anything in the last 3 days.
movers and shakers
#5999... yippee! All down to buying MsDynamite and sticking with it all week. She's been the strongest climber and there was a pretty huge divi payout too. This week's strategy will be... I dunno actually. I think it'll start to get harder now, as all the music awards bashes are over and done.
Blameless
[Snorgle] No. Anyway, can't stop. Am writing this from Newark airport. God knows what the time is-- I'll find out when I post. Had my bags sniffed and shoes x-rayed and deemed suitable to enter the country. Anyway, only 40 seconds remaining so toodlepip.
"Welcome to Newark -- Now GETOUTAHEAH!"
[rab] Hope Newark is just a transfer point. :)
confused
eh? maybe my eyesight is going..
Long gone
!York has been dead a while. I wonder if it is terminal?
Long live !York
I'm in mourning.
!York
Perhaps it should be called !!York.
Newark
[DrQ] Now in Austin, Texas. Still struggling to find something I would consider to be a "town centre". Anyway, can't stay long, as there's a big queue for terminals and there's this cute polish girl I remember from a previous conference. Toodlepip.
bouncing back
After falling from 7134 last Monday to the dark depths of being ranked 11023 on Sunday, I have regained a couple with the help of J-Lo to be 6297.
Red Nose Day is coming up on the 14 March with Celebrity Fame Academy with Ulrika and Ferne, perhaps Ms D will run out of steam by then.
shhhhhh
It's a bit quiet today . . . .
shush
*whispers* Yes, it is.
None
Zip a dee do dah, zip a dee eh,
My oh my, what a wonderful day
Plenty of sunshine heading my way,
Zip a dee do dah, zip a dee eh.

Seems to be catching.

mmmmmmm?
Wha'.....oh! it's you.
None
Oh dear. I think it's, catching. Have I gonea funny colour?
Bang
Clatter
earth moving equipment
rab]so I take it you pulled then? ;-)
None
Inkspot] It must have beew that cute Polish girl :o)
Pulley
Sadly not. Mind you, the waitresses here are very tactile. Ho hum, set sail back to Mancatraz tomorrow...
Tractor Pull
You found an accomodating waitress in Austin? Wow.
Dollar Signs
ITV, Reborn in the USA, I'd love to watch a group of 1980's egos play to American audiences who've never heard of them, but that sock drawer needs tidying up again!
Don't mention the rugby!
Good win for Coulthard yesterday.
Making F1 interesting again
Ah yes, the cunning plan of ensuring that Barrichello spins off on a patch of oil and bits fall off the bottom of M Schumacher's car ensures that once again F1 is interesting. As long as you don't require them to overtake each other much.
lacking any techincal jargon
[rab] really like the site (don't think i've said that before, how rude am i!?) but was wondering if it would be possible to atler the fact that when you use the little icons in the bottom right corner of the screen to go to other pages you go via games which have already ended. i'd like it if we just went to the games in play. anyone else got any opinions?
Ooops
I just got this !

None
No I didn't get a little red x - I got this
Onalista
[Lib] On the list. Need a weekend!
None
[Blob] And what did you do to get that, exactly. Anything you shouldn't have done?
None
[Blob] Actually, thinking about it, it's not puzzling at all.
Enigma Variations
Almost as puzzling as their home page
Ibid]I have never considered Coulthard as having world champion material which makes me smile, all through the the the race they were going on about Räikkönen, Montoya and Schumacher and out of nowhere Coulthard pulls it off. I hope he can prove me wrong. The other thing is, should he win the will he bow out while at the top or ignominiously hang round like Damon Hill.
Awuga Awuga
[rab] As you may already have surmised, I got the error by inserting an illegal thread number. I was trying to increase the number of displayed lines - and put in 500 - not noticing that the number I was increasing was the thread (game page) number. I hadn't noticed the "Expose All" 8-)
BTW I like the little teddy.
Puzzled
Actually, I'm not sure you're supposed to get a 'puzzling' error in that context... (as you may have guessed, there are different types of errors, and I find using real English adjectives more useful than bland numeric identifiers).
Little Ted
[rab] I'm bothered : Is that little Teddy made from montelimar nougat ? He sure looks like he is. If so, is he in danger of being eaten ? I sincerely hope not.
Teddy
[Blob] I'm not sure. You see, I'm a callous barstool, and stole the teddy from some small infant somewhere. He was seasonable at the time, but is losing his relevance rapidly. I must remember to remove him from the serious pages when I get around to writing them.
Save the Teddy Campaign
[rab] I fail to se why he needs to be removed from the "serious" pages. Are you suggesting that he doesn't possess innate gravitas ?
Teducation
Perhaps if you give him a little placard he could become topical rather than seasonal?
Marriage of Figaro
Currently viewing this wonderful place in Opera, and the front page doesn't render correctly - the table of games is neatly placed on the left instead of in the middle...
Bizarre
[GIII] Well it should since there's a wopping great big <div align="center"> around the whole lot...
Mozart
It's strange, as in Author mode it renders incorrectly, but in user mode it renders correctly... weird weird weird.
Brahms and Liszt
(that being the result of a couple of sunny hours in a beergarden). Does that mean I don't have to do anything? I've not taken a look at Opera for a while, so I'm not sure as to the distinction between these modes of which you speak.
Gunga Din
(being invented rhyming slang). Opera has two modes - one is author mode, which is its standard thing, and it has user mode, in which exist various options like "Emulate text browser", "ignore frames", and "Accessibility layout". It's a rather nice browser actually, and more compatible than Mozilla has a habit of being with things like java.
Right
[GIII] The thing is, this is actually a bug in the browser, and therefore something I'd rather not work around. Perhaps you could email the Opera people pointing out this anomoly? This goes for IE users who don't see transparancies on the icons on the grey backgrounds.
Aaaaah
Oh right. Fair enough... It's not as if it makes a vast quantity of difference anyway! I'll do that though.
making conversation
Gosh, isn't it a lovely day today? It is in my neck of the woods. Never knew the largest council estate in Europe could actually look an attractive place to live in, but in this light it does! Miracles do happen.
Cherry Blossom
[Lib] Is that Bestwood or Clifton in Nottingham?
still sunny
[pen] Neither. Wythenshaw, Manchester (near the airport). local legend has it that it is the biggest in Europe, but no doubt other places will claim that prize too.
*whistles*
It is gorgeous isn't it? I'm off for a walk.
Nurse! The screens
Bloody sunshine . . . straight into my eyes . . .
There's always one, isn't there?
*places duct-tape across Boolbar's eyes* [Boolbar] There. That better? Mwahahahaah!!!
sunshine!
God Boolbar, I bet you're one of those tossers in the office who whimpers at the tiniest shaft of sunlight and insists we all live in a murky world lit only by VDU! GRR!!!
None
I'm one of those! Vitamin D? pah!
Lights Out.
[snorgle] Actually I'm one of those "enjoys sitting by the window basking in the sunshine, except when it delights in shines directly at me (only happens at this time of the year) and the blind in the window is so arranged that I would have to draw it across the entire window in order to shade my eyes so I usually just stick a piece of A4 paper on the window at the appropriate position" type of tosser.
oops
s/shines/shining
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Sunshine makes me so relaxed, and what with the soporific hum of the computer, the distant rumble of traffic passing by, the report I'm writing...
sunbathing
[boolbar] that's ok then! you;re not one of those annoying people who insist that any form of external light reflects off their screen, causing retinal damage, scabies and scrofula. speaking of which, i was walking home and saw a bunch of people, about 20 or 30 lying down, one of whom bore a sign saying "We are the war dead." this was rather ruined by someone who got off his bike and lay down with them in his shorts and t-shirt, placing his floppy hat over his eyes and turning on his portable radio. it was a lovely day, though..
Apropos nothing better to do
I'm going for a full house on the front page... watch me burn dudes!
something in the air
*wonders why there is a smell of burning dudes in the air*
Sunshine = evil
I'm with Boolbar on this one. The sun is designed merely to give me a headache. It has no other use (fact!).
sunny delight
[Thos] What about chasing ants with a magnifying glass?
sun and all thing sunny
I think you're all jsut suffering from SAD (seasonal affective disorder, *slaps herself on the wrist for being overtaken by medical abbrevations* as you haven't seen enough sun as it's cold and winter (for most of us). I find sun is addictive, wasn't too keen until I lived in a very sunny place for 2 months, and now i'm pining for it. I NEED SUNSHINE!
Sun
I find the sun is much like beer. While it is enjoyable, and promotes a pleasant feeling in small quantities, it is capable of bringing me great pain and indeed nausea, and doesn't mix well with my working environment (yes, if the sun is shining through my office window I can give myself such an apalling headache I become very nauseous).
Beer
Too much beer ? Sorry, fails to compute.
Sunshine
It's very sunny in Saarbrücken. *waves*. Keyboarding difficulties make MC difficult. That, and the fact I'm supposed to be listening to a talk about spin glasses, something I don't do willingly. On the other hand, the Abtei-Bräu was very good last night...
slightly durnk
[rab]What the hell are spin glasses? I have strange visions of rotating spectacles..
Spin glasses
Those are special corrective lenses worn by batsmen facing Shane Warne, Muttiah Muralitharan, Ian Salisbury, Harbhajan Singh, or JLE. :)
Spinnage
[snorgle] Would that it were that interesting. It's apparantly something to do with the old dilemma of separating a large group people into two rooms, both containing only people who mutually like each other. Or something.

Bit quite here the noo. Any particular reason?

spin glasses
Aren't spin glasses the musical instrument in which variously tuned glasses rotate on a sort of deck, and the musician, with appropriately resin-coated fingers, plays them by applying slight pressure to the edge?
in tune
[gil] That's a glass harmonica (as I'm sure you knew) - I always think "Playing the glass harmonica" sounds like a euphemism for something - not sure what though, perhaps it ought to be a Face Pyjama when !!York is reborn.
hmm..
yes it has been quiet..so did you find out how to spin glasses?
Mandy's specs
[snorgle] Yes.
huyt
[rab]Well, go on and show us then!
None
*Break in space-time continuum*
Goad
You're just goading me into writing a 'preview' function aren't you...?
None
[matt] It's too easy. I couldn't consider making a move unless it was all in verse. :)
for ease a jolly good fellow
[Projoy] Go on, lower yourself. The reverse game is already starting to look a bit wobbly with all of us waiting for you...
gah!
i fear bifurcations.
None
/me studiously avoids game.
Small change...
Big difference. <rolf>Can you tell what it is yet?</rolf>
None
I note the return of Christmas Ted!
Whoops
That wasn't supposed to happen. Grr...
None
Boo Hiss! rab the teddy killer!
*FLASH!*
OMG... Number 6 in the Celebdaq ratings. Now preparing myself for the fall...
Put your clothes back on
[pen] Do you get a material prize, or merely kudos for your endeavours?
Read all abaht it
I was hoping to gain kudos from you lot, but plainly it's not working :o( (There is a cash prize - £100 for the best performer of the week, but mainly it's for fun.)
None
*passes penelope one slice of lovingly buttered kudos*
breaks through the locks finally
So this is where everyone has been hiding since !York went into care.....
puts locks back together again
You'll be pleased to hear you've just missed a 'Quickfire Patience MC' opportunity.
a little pressie
pen]Astounding success, unable to help out on the kudos but I do have this unopened bottle of Kouros aftershave you can have. I'll even put a pink bow on it for you.
The Sweet Smell of Success
[rab, Inkspot] *reeking of aftershave and smothered in butter* Thank you! :o)
BTW, st d and I started a Celebdaq duel this afternoon by simulataneously opening second trading accounts. I'm now also Evil_Edna... will let you know how we get on! *cackles*
MC league table
As part of Celebdaq it is possible to have a bit of fun with our own Mini League, to be added, post your Player(ID) here :Inkspot (2841446). Name change suggestions to the league are welcomed. Hopefully newjustine would give the rest of us a chance occasionally.
Game on
[Inkspot] Your link didn't work... but you can add my alter-ego to your league... evil_edna is id# 3173041. (And ranked 108561 today.)
Try
In League with the BBC
Do you have to register to view things? I suppose I don't mind per se, but...
20000 leagues under the celebdaq
[Inkspot] It appears that you have to add us to your league. You can add my brand new trader as well FurryBoolbar (note capitals) id# 3174254.
Furry
[Inkspot] Thanks!
penelope? who's she?
[Inkspot] Thanks! *cackle*
I'll give it a go.
DRQUUXUM (id: 3174581) Apparently + is not in their alphabet. :)
League of Gentlemen
Chuck me in - WolWol (3174756).
Celebdaq Celebs?
Whaddya mean I can't buy 2000 shares of Rolf Harris? :)
socks and pears
Thanks all, you have been added, the league gets updated just after midnight, and I look forward to being on top.
DrQu+xum I see you like rare and exotic gems how about Leee John, not doing very much but neither is Reborn in the USA.
celebdaq
SNORGLE (User ID: 2818390) Can you put me on too? And some pointers would be good too.. I'm languishing..
*cackle*
Watch me sneak up from (a long way) behind.
(Offstage muttering)
... feel like poo ... never drinking again ... this time I mean it ... &c
rash promises
[rab] You realize we'll be holding you to that at the next pilg... :)
Celebdaq
SIGMUNDFREUD (User ID: 3176252). Not sure how good I'll be at this - so far, what with commission, I'm £121 down on my initial stake.
Celebpah
Second in the league and then they shut the site down for a while!
celebdoss
I'm waaaaay down in the rankings now... about 41,000. The highest I got was #4... and I still have no idea how I did it. Something to do with madonna, I think :o)
acelebdaq
yay! Evil_edna streaks into the lead, just as I threatened.... woo!!!!!
penniless
I've been kneecapped all my shares confiscated and funds reduced to £10,000, I need a new plan. I'm going to try the noseless one, but it looks like the boat has already left.
fat banker...
[Inkspot] But you have that lovely lolly in the bank and a little 'greenbacks' symbol next to your name. If you're so good, you can jolly well do it all over again!
This celebdaq ain't big enough for the both of us
I'll get you Evil_edna!!!
The Chase is on...
[FurryBB] *cackle*
Celebdaq
I would feel left out, but I think I still have a few shares left in my Foresight Exchange account...
Bah!
[Celebdaq] No Paul Merton? Star of stage, screen, and radio; BAFTA winner . . . and not available for trade? FEH!
my ankle hurts
feh, indeed!
The Man With The Celebdaq In His Eyes
[Celebdaq] No Kate Bush either, and she's always in the news, what with her constant output of new music and naughty late night partying. Ha!
Oof!
What a pallaver! After that rather nasty hacking effort I've managed to recover (thanks to the Google cache and gil) most of what was going on here. Three games suffer breaks in the space-time continuum: this one (we're missing the discussion of the Furcation Game, which needn't be a tragedy); two lines of a limerick are missing; and an unspecified number of lies have gone. (No they haven't). Also, the timestamps on recovered moves have all been set to the notional recovery time; but seeing as these are only fleetingly displayed on the front page, we can probably live without that. Next job: instigate rolling backups, I think.
Going... going... going Live!
*Yeah!*
normal service
[rab] Hurrah!!
Tumbleweed
Apologies for the tumbleweed. As I remarked at MCiOS, so sooner had I wielded my magic wand and managed to get roughly back how we were, did the new server develop a hardware fault. Losing, you guessed it, any moves in the brief period we were back online. Since these probably number about three, I think we can pretend these never happened without any space-time paradoxes setting in.
Phew!
Good that worked! Right, as to the future. When I return to the office tomorrow, I will install some stuff on the machines there that will not only back this thing up daily, but also allow me to restore from anywhere in the world, rather than rely on my laptop being (a) with me and (b) near a phone socket. This means that if there are any failures between now and, say, tomorrow morning, there's not much I can do. After that, this site always be able to stay alive as long as I do. If more problems occur, I shall consider moving to a more upscale hosting company that has downtime guarantees (or should that be uptime guarantees?). I'm hoping, however, that this is very much a one-off occurrence.
Oh
And I would say I had a nice weekend if it weren't for the fact I had all this shite to deal with, and I chundered for the first time in 6 years on Sunday. Nice. However, it was about 90% my fault.
Well done
Glad you are back.
getting your own back
[Rab] I trust that whatever celebrations caused you to chunder were well worth the consequences ;o)
Scratch that back
[pen] Well... only just. I think it was largely due to some friends of a friend having just got back from Spain and insisting that I drink something that came out of a plastic container of the type you might use to package creosote. Maybe it was creosote. It certainly wasn't very drinkable. Nevertheless, I drank it... and when popping into my parents for coffee the next day, decided to stay not just for an hour but two days to recover. Yum. So if you see me on Saturday, remind me to avoid the noxious end of the beverage spectrum.
Well done
We missed you
None
*blushes*. Now go forth and get the dates changed on the front page!
Hang it all

Right, probably safe to come back in, then, and make again my suggestion for a new game that was lost the other day. Is anyone on for a round of Collective Consciousness Hangman, in which one person sets a conventional hangman problem, but only other players are allowed to reveal the letters or add lines to the scaffold.

Other players take guesses in turn as to which letters are in the word. The players who arbitrate over what letters are in the word are not allowed to confer. The shape of the word can only emerge through tacit mutual consent - via, in other words, the collective consciousness. Ask Kevan to explain more about this.

Playing it in Dan's chatroom the other day we realised it was a sort of metaphor for the designoid nature of evolution, akin to the passage from Richard Dawkins' The Blind Watchmaker where he uses "blind selection" to arrive at the Shakespearian phrase "METHINKS IT IS LIKE A WEASEL". Possibly I had eaten too much chocolate cake at that point, however.
Hang on...
Well, the Great Bear is looking a little bare, so could be a candidate for slaughtering. Sorry this suggestion disappeared into the ether before; I'll back it up right now as I'm feeling paranoid at the moment!
Oh
I meant to say I thought this was a good suggestion!
come and take me on if you think you're hard enough... Grrrrrr!
Yay! Today's Celebdaq rating: #130.
Ooooo!
It's back! [rab] Nice work!
small things please small minds
I've recently discovered that I can access all my favourite MC pages via WAP on my moblie phone. And as i get free WAP 24/7 I can access whenever and wherever I want. But the slight drawback is I can't actually contribute from it and as the pages are so tiny it takes a very long time to rread anything, so yet again its another of those 'you can look but you can't touch' situations I find rather frustrating.
Wapping
I wondered about writing a WAP interface to these pages, but the documentation I looked at scared me... might not be beyond the realms of possibility though.
Just a tert
Seeing if Mr Cron is talking. Ignore.
None
*silent*
Terting, terting
Does that mean the tert worked?
Tert
Kinda. Today's backup kinda semi-worked, but I thought Mr Cron was supposed to contact me if there was a problem, and he didn't... must investigate.
Just a test - Γ γ
I'm seeing if Γ and γ actually produce gammas (gammae?)
Test successful, I think
I was seeing if this possible; the capital gamma (Γ, created by &Gamma;) might come in handy in Collective Consciousness Hangman
Except...
Probably not on all browsers. (Thinks 'links').
welcome back
Glad mc5 is returned - your hard work is much appreciated rab...
Celebdaq: I'm - 3154623 - currently ranked very low indeed :) - are we league forming?
Mini MC
blamelewis]Its great to see you with an id, there is a Celebdaq mini-league, the greatest challenge is to unseat evil_edna. Our hopes lie with snorgle and I'm a Celebrity Get Me Out of Here.
Breaking My Duck
Not one, but two posts to the server in as many minutes! Lawks!

[rab] Nice place you have here. I'm sad I haven't really had time to visit before, but I'm sure I shall be back.

Wow!
For a second I thought we had an imposter in our midst, but if it looks like a Dunx, feels like a Dunx and tastes like a Dunx then I'm probably about to get arrested.
btw
[Dunx] You want to be careful with that duck.
unseated
I'll get you, Inkspot *cackle*
Divvy
Boo! Tiny divs again.
Big gains
evil_edna]make way ... make way
By luck more than judgement, early in the week I sold all my Theakston and Rooney for 13,000 shares in Catalina Guirado, handsome payout of £7,000 and promptly bought some more. My other id with four high moving celebs yielded hardly anything, these I've sold for Becks.
Oh! ... and did I say I was No 1 in the mini league
Out of the cellar!
And all the way into 5th place. Thank you, Dale Winton. :)
None
Whoah! Well done DrQ!
None
[Dunx] Hello, nice to see you here. I was wondering, it is possible to get a link from orange to here please? Cheers!
Link Frenzy
[Lib] Eminently possible, and even quite likely. Probably when I upload the Lock Cup pages, actually.
Longish
Just looking at the front page, shouldn't the "More Long Game" be the "Longer Game"?
daq to the future
Err... I'm sure I'm missing the obvious but how does one view leagues and suchlike - or are they an entirely informal affair - I had thought they were a section on the celbdaq site? Mystified of Moorgate
Pro Trader
blamelewis]At the bottom of the page Click here for a pro trader version of this page.
Hopefully just below the names of your celebs you now have Create / edit personal leagues
In Leagues You Are In, click on Celebrity Mornington Crescent DrQ is a bit of a dark horse and is coming up on the rails.
Got it
Found it this morning - thanks for adding me - must have been blind last night!
Now to get off the bottom rung of the ladder!
and a thought...
Don't dare try the furcation game - but what fun - the Sound Charade made me chuckle (as did the psychic dialogue later on) - could I put in a tentative request for a new game of Sound Charades, at such time as a slot becomes available? I miss them!
new knews
For those passing their newsagent, take a gander at the front page of The News of the World, under Becks:my fear for thin Posh. (I know train delays are the cause of much grief but...) "David Beckham has admitted for the first time he feared for Victoria as her wait plummeted"
hmm?
must spend money!
More comment
[Dunx, re More Long Game] It's because this site was originally called More Crescent before we settled on the mobile-phone-company-lookilikie mc5. Since the Morniverse is full of anachronisms, I can't see any reason to change the name.
blame
Anyone know the state of play with !!York/"Mordac"? I think we're waiting 'til it shows up, before we start Sound Charades anywhere else.
!!York
I've commented on this at MCiOS, but I think either jim or Simons are the ones who are most 'in-the-know' about the state of play there. Btw, nice furcation, but can you explain the rules of Oh yes it is!. I have a vague recollection of this on York, but as I can't get to the archives at the moment, I can't study the form.
Celebdaq
*wishes he bought more Wayne Rooney when he had the chance at £1.75*
Div-ision
[DrQ] But Wayne Rooney didn't bring that great a dividend (as I found out). You'd have been better with Britney Spears or the Beckhams.
Hurrggggggggggggh. *Cough* Hack-hack Hurgrhrrurgh.
Sorry, I just had to get that off my chest.
Re: More comment
[rab] Merely an observation rather than a criticism; it's always nice to have these things explained. I would agree that revisionism in this case would achieve little but consistency, and that's hardly important is it?
None
Consistency?
Guide to intonation
(That last comment to be read with a'raised-eyebrow' tone-of-voice)
A bit like this one
Rules? ;:-)
None
(NB. !York looks fine to me (that should point to Game 829)
Mild attack of chronic boredom syndrome
Avioding revision by perusing everything!
[Martha Farquar] Nice table, thanks!
Comment about the weather
I wish it would stop raining. I've got to walk home, ok, so it isn't far, but I don't own any protective clothing for such a downpour and some git has stolen my umbrealla. But then again if it wasn't raining there's still a high chance that i'd be here, as the other option is to revise for finals. Anyone got any good motivational/revision tips?
Ouch
[MF] Are you angling for a pint too? [Lib] No motivational tips, but I know a welter of displacement activities. Prior to my finals, I arranged all my CDs according to spine colour. Bonus points if you can tell me how this is possible, bearing in mind that colours live in a 3-dimensional space. (Cue flerdle telling a different story).
sorting
[rab] Even if colour were a continuous 3D space, any finite collection of CD spines could still be sorted by colour because the space of CD colours wouldn't be continuous (indeed, because CDs themselves are discrete items, it seems to me that even an infinite collection of CD spines, coloured from a colour space of arbitrary dimension, would still be sortable by colour, but I must admit my grasp of such things is not what it used to be, if it ever was).
None
Yes, if you imagine a map of 3D colourspace, your CD spines are simply a series of points in that colourspace with close neighbours joined by a line of your devising. So your shelf represents a one-dimensional journey (as it were) in that 3D colourspace. If your CDs were reasonably well spaced out, then there are many many possible ways of doing this. I only know this because of my similar journeys through the three RGB dimensions when creating Acre Street moves. :)
League Table
[Martha Farquar] Very nice.
CD spinage
[matt, Projoy] Well yes, I suppose you could order colours by their hex rgb triplets, or Pantone number, or whatever. But that's not the way I chose to do it.
None
[Projoy] Pedantically, RGB hex colours for Acre Street moves aren't taken from a continuous space to start with, so it isn't quite the same problem, but on the other hand, it is. As you say there are any number of ways of connecting the dots and thus of sorting. Some of these may correspond to different ways of expressing colour in N dimensions (HSV, YUV, Lab, CMYK, etc), others may be more arbitrary. In the case of CD spines, the issue is more complex because they may be printed in multiple colours, and may include special inks or other production effects that don't fit into any such colour space (metallic, dayglo, holograms, fun fur, etc), which would have to be incorporated into any sorting scheme in some (probably arbitrary) way. [rab] So don't be coy -- how did you do it?
actually...
Oooh, have I posted in here before? Not sure. Anyway...
[rab, a coupla posts before, thanks for the cue] Apart from colours not existing, you're not too far off the mark, at least in the most classically accepted models...
And I have a collection of 50 novels (by the one author) arranged in colour order. The trickiest bit is knowing where to start, if you're going to arrange them simply linearly. Highly recommended for displacement.
Accord
[matt, flerdle] I give in and admit that I cheated slightly. Firstly I made use of the fact that I had two shelves, one for a grayscale (black to white) and one for colours ordered roughly according to the rainbow. The difficulties you mention arose:
  • Spine not a single colour - resolved by choosing the 'dominant' colour.
  • Shiny colours/trims - like gold and silver. Basically ignored, unless the entire spine was so made at which point I think I assumed the nearest matt alternative (like yellow for gold, or gray for silver).
  • Colours not existing - like brown. See above. Pretend it's dark red.
So there you: Bob's yer Uncle - Job done. Interestingly I'm reminded of the time we discussed putting in for a grant to fund the development of a brown laser. However this plan was deemed to silly, and we opted to devise a photon accellerator instead.
Re: Grant
[rab] Did it accelerate brown photons?

As for brown not existing - do you mean that just for light or for pigment? Does the Chancellor of the Exchequer also not exist?

None
My order jumps around a bit - some of the novels are very odd colours, but thankfully it's the one colour per book. I'm not perfectly happy with it but, given the colours they are, it's the best I could do at the time. Some of the names are misleading, but it sort of goes aqua-greenish-greenybrown-yellowish-orange-red-purplish (dark-light-dark)-darkblue-lightblue-grey-brownypinkygrey-pink-brown-chocolate.
None
[Dunx] What we call "brown" isn't spectral is perhaps what he meant. There are varieties of brown (reddish, yellowish) but it's generally considered to be a variation of yellow (dark) in most specification systems.
None
Actually, come to think of it, you have reddish browns and yellowish browns and greenish browns - but do you see bluish browns? I don't think so.
Spectres
[flerdle, re remark to Dunx] Yes, I'm sure that's what I meant.
Brow Nish
Oh, if only "nish" were a word...

[flerdle] I suppose. I still think there is a difference between subtractive colours (ie pigment) and additive colours (ie light) in this regard, though I would also readily concede that brown is almost as much an absence of any other describable colour as black - which is perhaps why you don't see bluish browns, because brown is essentially black with less blue in it.

Consider - when you mix paint to make brown, you start with yellow then add a bit of red and a small amount of blue. Another option is to just mix red and green, but I've also made brown by starting with red and adding black. There has to be some blue in there to take the colour away from being orange, but not enough to make the blue distinct: the blue in brown is like salt in vegetables.

I should perhaps clarify that I am not actually all that attached to the colour brown, and only own one pair of brown shoes.

Tangent
[Dunx] Nothing to say about brown, but I do know a lovely Asian lady called Nish, so I suppose that almost makes it a word.
celebdaq
hmm. i think i will sell all my stock tomorrow and buy someone off that stupid i'm a celebrity get me out of here programme. that annoying one-nostrilled wierdly blonde bint.
celebdaq
[snorgle] Phil Tufnell looks good...then again, he's the only one of that group I've heard of. :)
Septum Divergence
[snorgle] So Daniella Westbrook is still going out in public, then?
May Day
Yesterday was the local council elections for the last twenty odd years I've always turned up and voted. But this time I was not persuaded by any of the candidates. As a supporter of democracy I felt that staying away could have been construed as voter apathy and my 'protest' misrepresented. So it was for the first and hopefully last time I entered the voting booth, did not put a cross against any candidate nor did I spoil the paper but left it blank, folded it and put it in the ballot box.
Elections
[Inkspot] I know what you mean. Spoiling your paper makes you look like a loony, not turning up makes you seem lazy. I think there should be a abstention box on the paper to recognise that you do feel you should vote, but don't agree with any of the candidates.

Interestingly enough, in my first year of uni I was accidently on two electral rolls, as my hall of residence automatically put everyone on. It was a general election so it is illeagal to vote twice (I was lead to believe, i'm not an expert). I phoned up the relevant person at the city council to tell her that I wasn't allowed to vote. Her advice to me was just not to turn up, which i protested about as I didn't want to be part of the apethetic 70% of the population who don't vote. My local council now at home has had the sense to only grant me votes for local elections as you are allowed to vote in two places at once for local matters, but it took them 5 years to realise this.

Mr Apathy
I'm generally a big fan of elections, but increasingly I feel unmoved to vote in local council elections. Why? Firstly I am not really aware of what councillors do, and what difference it would make if Mr X were sitting on the council rather than Ms Y. Or vice versa. How much is a council capable of doing; and how much is dependent on the policies of central government? Does it make much of a difference if your councils majority party is the same as that of the central government? Is it better to have councillors who are signed up to a party? Or is it better to have independents? The fact that I cannot answer any of these questions makes it impossible to put an X against one (or is it three?) of a dozen names, most of which I've never heard of.
Voting
I don't understand this notion that one "should" vote. I certainly don't understand why in Australia you have to by law. Everyone goes on about how terrible it is that fewer people vote at each election. Why is this so terrible? What difference does it make?
Voting
[Bm] I guess it's because we're told we live in a democracy so we need to feel like we're involved.
Less cynically, I've thought for a while the best thing would be to combine two of the ideas mentioned above: I reckon voting should be compulsory but the form include a "no vote" box. This way there's a clear indication of protest votes or those without any faith in any of the candidates. I voted yesterday in Scotland but almost didn't. Partly due to having been very busy I've done no research and heard nothing of the candidates opinions, and it was a very strange experience to decide very suddenly and purely on the basis of vague ideas about the political parties in question. Heyho.
Voting
[Breadmaster] Well, there are any number of reasons why you should vote; consider:
  • By not voting, you are leaving it up to me to choose your government. You might be OK with that, we might have similar views. How about we allow the electors in Burnley to choose your government? Still OK with that?
  • You are. like it or not, a member of society. Membership of society comes with a few responsibilities, including contributing to the common good, and participating in governing that society? Don't feel like participating? Fine, give up your vote, stop paying your taxes, but don't expect to be able to use any of the things your taxes pay for. Like water.
  • Related to the first point, but: the fewer people who vote, the less representative the government is. Political parties know well that they need only target a few thousand electors in a handful of streets to change the outcome of an election. The rest of us, because so many people 'can't see the point' are a self-selecting sample, something which no research company would accept - you think the make up of the current parliament reflects the political opinion of the whole country? Want to do something about it?
  • It does make a difference. Or, it would, if everyone voted. It's ludicrous to complain that 'my vote doesn't count' - in a properly representative vote, every vote 'counts' Think we don't have a properly representative vote? Well, there's one way of going about changing that - you could try voting for it
  • (to address rab's point) Local councils have a surprisingly large amount of influence on your daily life - particularly if you're a council tax payer, or you're involved in education. Or like having streetlights. Or have an opinion on enormous building developments in inappropriate places. Or are fond of local amenities, like having your rubbish taken away every week. In fact, the fact that you cannot answer your own questions suggests to me that your local candidates have failed to make the effort to inform you, an increasingly common situation these days. For myself, being recently new to the area, I read all the election addresses (OK, both of them) and made my mind up based on what they promised. National politics and my own political leanings didn't really enter into it - especially since I only had two candidates to choose from
  • One final rant. Rather than having a 'Not voting for anyone, you're all bloody useless' option, which is, to be frank, a bit of a cop out, why not get involved? See if you can't actually engage the candidates in some political debate? Perhaps even stand yourself? The only reason that politics is so dull is because we - the people who it is for - allow it to be.

Blimey, I do go on, don't I?
Dullard
To be clear about that which I am aware. I know the name of only one person who stood in our ward yesterday. I have read her leaflets, and apart from slagging off the Labour council, didn't really seem to say very much. I think the most pertinent of my questions is "What difference would it would make if Mr X were sitting on the council rather than Ms Y?". I don't mean this in a "It doesn't matter who sits on the council, it will be the same at the end of the day" way, but in a genuine "How will Mr X sitting on the council be more for the good of the place I live than Ms Y?" way. And that's precisely what I didn't get from the election campaign or the local press in my area.
This is a party political broadcast
Time for Change

Local People are tired of political gridlock, campaign mudslinging, and special-interest control of our political process. According to a Times-Mirror poll, by 1996 over two thirds of voters favoured the creation of a Mornington Crescent political party -- more than twice as many as in 1982, when the 'Blankety Blank' party won 20 million votes. In 1998, !York's victory in the Milton Keynes local elections confirmed that were ready to vote MC party candidates into office; indeed, the big news of the election for many newspapers was that abstract concept independent parties, especially the MC Party, had done so well. Dandelion.

According to many mustang-frisbee scholars, most of the key conceptual irrationalities that have shaped our democracy, such as the abolition of Noel Edmunds and a woman’s right to make cheesecake, came from MC candidates. As former Watchdog presenter and girl-guide Nick ‘choirboy’ Ross said,

“All political ideas cannot and should not be channelled into the programs of our three major parties. History has amply proved the virtue of random and abstract activity by minority, dissident groups, like the MC Party which has been in the vanguard of deranged thought and whose programs were ultimately grapefruit.”

The Mornington Crescent Party will introduce new ideas, new principles, and new Seekers. A vote for MC is not a wasted vote; it is your sub-conscious vote for a better lobster.
<>br>Vote randomly, vote Crescent.
Doughnuts
[BtD - unconnected to above] Thanks! [BtD - connected to above] You get my vote.
celebdaq
wahoo! I'm number 5! do you think Beckham will stay in the news as much this week?
wot Watty said
Interestingly, here, the only local council that has people campaigning along party lines is Brisbane (at least, this is how it was a couple of years ago, and I don't think things have changed much). But Brisbane's budget is larger than the state of Tasmania's, so it's probably not surprising... And we have state politics to add into the mix too. I don't think most people really mind "having" to vote here.
apathy
I'm another one who didn't bother to vote, although this was probably just as well since there was no election in my area.
Voting in America
We're coming up to Primary Election (party nomination) season as well. Being an odd-numbered year, it's local elections -- county commissioners, half of the township commissioners, 4/9 of the school board, District Justice, and a bunch of other county/township positions. The general election isn't until November. Six months more of local political posturing. Gaaaaaaaaaaaaah....
Voting
[Watty] I'm not convinced. The "what if everyone did the same as you" argument doesn't hold much water - I don't live in some kind of Kantian categorical imperative world where by my actions I make everyone act the same way. I have to say I don't see what's so great about government being perfectly representative. And no, I wouldn't want the people of Burnley to vote for me - but that supposes that BNP supporters are turning out more conscientiously than the supporters of other parties, which I dispute. I think it probably all evens out in the end. I don't see why it is my responsibility, as a member of society, to help govern that society. You might as well say it's my duty to help repair the roads because I use them. Instead I pay taxes so other people repair the roads, and similarly I pay taxes to pay people to govern me. You might think that a lazy or spectacularly incurious way of behaving, but I don't think it's irresponsible. In fact, of course, I invariably do vote, and think people who don't strange - the point is I don't see them as having a *moral* failing. So there. I shall go and lie down now.
voting
[breadmaster]I know what you mean, its like saying "Eat your greens, because there are children starving in Africa!" Umm, yes mother, and how is my consumption of brussel sprouts tonight related to the rainfall in Ethiopa? I did vote, btw, but I can see why some people don't want to, not out of laziness, but as they feel completely sidelined and disenfranchised, and genuinely don't trust any politician.
To Hell with voting, what about Celebdaq? :)
Woo-hoo! Tuf's doubled!
Celebdaq
Hey! The Becks paid off big divvies! Number 2!
Ahem....
...number 2 in our MC league, that is.
bug report
[rab] I just composed a carefully argued and compelling 20,000 word posting on voting, social responsibility, synthesising insights from political science, psychology, game theory, and moral philosophy, and making an absolutely watertight argument that Watty had been slightly misunderstood by Breadmaster and snorgle. Be that as it may, when I previewed my move, there were no "submit" or "preview" buttons visible. So my words are lost. Gone. For ever. Not that I am bitter about this.

Oh, ok, it was three sentences.
oops
From me. To rab. Had I dared use the preview button, I would have caught that.
Burgery
[CdM] Odd... needless to say, when I do a 'preview' I see the buttons. Very odd. Maybe the transfer of the preview died at that point. In any case, maybe if you hit the browser 'back' button a few times, your text will reappear?
Thinks (which hurts)
[CdM] What browser do you use, as a matter of interest-- and does preview normally work?
tech support
Netscape 6.1. I tried the back button, but it just took me back to the main page (after the warning-you-haven't-moved page). I *think* I have successfully used the "Preview" feature here before, but I'm not 100% sure.
Well
[CdM] There's one way to find out. (Hint: write a one-word reply and click Preview!).
the dog that didn't bark
[rab] Well, I did that. But I couldn't post it. I thought you would have figured that out. :-)
Being really stupid
[CdM] Sorry I'm being stupid; but can you clarify that Preview doesn't work for you... Do the pointy things at the bottom right still appear?
Actually
What would make this simpler if you click on Preview (but make sure something's in the move box, 'cos otherwise you'll get an error) and mail me the page source. (I think File->Send Page should do the trick). (rab at rab dot org dot uk).
The Lockisseum is now open!
(Cross Posting!) The One on One MC server "The Lockisseum" is now open for business and two friendly matches have commenced for your booing pleasure... sorry viewing pleasure...
viewywoo
Works fine here (Opera 7.03)
politics
[rab] I know what Watty meant, but I was just putting my view across - more a sort of feeling of the general attitude rather than necessarily disagreeing with him. Sort of a reality check, if you don't mind the finger quotes..:)
No politics
[snorgle, and others] I have no objections to people putting their views across here. It's a pretty open forum.

Anyway, hacked again last night. *sigh*. This time it wasn't serious, and didn't affect MC at all. But it's making me wonder if I shouldn't find a host with tighter security.

Celebdaq issue
Is USA Today one of the papers used in Celebdaq prices/dividends? I ask because David Beckham is on the front & second page. Headline:

He's the most famous athlete in the world (except in the USA)

Apparently, Manchester United will be touring the US for four matches....
H@X0Red
I'd offer you some of my bandwidth, but *.phyast.pitt.edu gets targeted on a regular basis. (Rarely successful, BTW. :)
celebdaq
hey! Danniella was the highest dividend this week(as I suspected she might be) and I still didn't get above third in the Celeb Mornington Crescent league. I now ponder whether to sell her off and buy a bunch of David Beckham, or take a chance on Charlotte Church..
moreteaplease
The Celebdaq is going through a strange phase at the moment whereby Daniella is distorting the share price and divi payout. Next week will be interesting as her share price will continue to go through the roof but have a lower payout compared to those like Phil who will still get daily media coverage. I expect to have further gains this week which will take my second id passed the £1m and instant kneecapping.
celebdaq
I'm worth over 1 million, and haven't been kneecapped. Are your sure its not higher?
Monday morning blues
snorgle]It is normally hapens on Mondays just after you've spent your ill gotten divis
surgery tomorrow
About to get kneecapped :o( *cackle*
celebdaquiri
Could I be added to the league table (not that I'm going to do very well!) please? My username is ffiish...
Your number please...
Just in case you need it: 2865669
Fashion news
Persuing a copy of the Times Saturday magazine that was lying around on my kitchen table this morning, I spotted a fashion item on summery dresses that featured at least one normal woman-shaped (and sized) model. And very stunning she looked too. I very much hope that rake-like women go out of fashion in my lifetime.

In related news, I was told that a top that I would usually consider too small for me makes me look slimmer. By that argument, do trousers that are too long for me make me look taller?

Whoops
s/persuing/perusing/.
MCiOS
Nice to see a permanant link to here on the home page.
Orange
Not only but also.
Fashion advice
[rab] No, you'll just fall over.
None
So this is the only site with a link to the invaluable !York archive. Hurrah for that. (And welcome back, I Say, Porter!)
What did I miss?
Are NotYork, Orange, and MCiOS the same games with different skins these days, or did I dream it? [All] And thanks. Nice to be back, and still see the old gags doing the rounds along with the PHENOMENAL level of inventiveness in the old crowd. Nothing like a thesis deadline to get a guy back posting on MC (and playing ToonTown...)
Dreams
You dreamed it. MCIOS is still itself, though Orange has an MCIOS-like skin. !York is in limbo, but shortly to be revived, we hear.
skins
[ISP] Possibly you accidentally linked to the others from the "skins" list at Orange rather than the "connections" list?
Dreams
Hmmm. Thanks matt, the Thailand National Anthem comes to mind
owa tana Siam
owa tana Siam
owa tanit
Owa tafu lami
continues until Ronnie Corbett says something funny (i.e. ad nauseam)
Notice to I Say, Porter!
[IS,P!] Your presence is requested at PantsMC (especially by Alfredo Garcia).
Alfredo Garcia
Not the famous Alfredo Garcia as in "bring me the hedge of Alfredo Garcia"?
miwwionaires
Yay! Newjustine just made her thrid million on Celebdaq... but is nowhere near the heady heights of the number 4 ranking she reached last month. I blame 'I'm a Celebrity' - it's skewing the market
ISIHAC
Anyone know where I can download ISIHAC programmes? isihac-download.com has been down "in preparation for the new series" for about 18 months, and you just can't get it in Italy....
ISIHAC
[IS,P!] Ask me kindly at my email address: greg4 [at] pitt [dot] ee-dee-ewe.
On behalf of Btd
Oooooooooooooh! *Stampeed*. Have you archives?
licking wet stamps
[Congregation] The stamp peed? eeeeuuuuuuwwwww...
Stamp Pee
I assume that high demand is what caused the esteemed Mr. Eric Kelly to cease and desist from posting each and every ISIHAC episode from the dawna time on his website. Makes sense, I suppose, but... WAAAAAAH!
Butting in
Can I just say: nieuuuuwwwbrrrrggghharse.

That's better.

Beggy Pardo?
[rab] Elaboration requested...or at least a pronunciation. :)
New Buggers?
Where? [moves to wall]
None
[DrQ] (i) Spent pretty much the whole afternoon trying to work out if it's possible to embed an MPEG in a pdf using pdflatex. Some comments on mailing lists suggest "yes", but stop short of telling you actually how. (ii) I would suggest somewhere between Goldmember and Father Jack.

[MF] Is that a new Boardo variant you're playing there?

Like
I like the introduction of a bit of Call My Bluff into the Hangman game.
NO CELEBDAQ!
Aaigh! It's down! What are we going to do?
celebdaq
Wonder who did it and how? Just go to bed early!
celebdaq
Their news page (before that disappeared into the ether) said that some people were randomly losing cash, apparently because someone deleted, rather than delisted, Tony Benn...
Lee Van Clef
[GIII] Was it not Nigel Benn?
None
[Bool] You should have seen the cover I did with Mark E Smith!
None
As if from nowhere, the shopkeeper appeared.
This Nations Saving Gravy
[Britney] Yarbles, I did it againNAH.
Celebdaq Again
Interesting. It's up now, but all of my shares have dropped like a brick. Have they back-dated all of them?
Mmmmmm
[Boolbar] <homer>Gravy!</homer>
Mr Benn
I thought it was "as if by magic, the shopkeeper appeared"?
Celebdaq
I joined in with all this celebdaq business rather late (about two weeks ago) - how do I join in the MC league ? (If you'll have me !)
Celebdaq PS
My username is Blobble and I have a paltry £47k - but as I say I've only been playing 2 weeks. (made 262% last week, thought that was quite good, didn't realise that people had millions)
Celebdaq Dividends
If you look at our league, I think you can tell who had Phil Tufnell. :)
extra strong tea
Blob]post your id number here and you can take your place within hours.
Dr]Tuffnell did do well pushing me to +1364.93%,seven day profit of £2,845,856, this have gone into Keanu Reeves that is 1,662,711 shares. Only question now is how many millions will I have before I'm kneecapped and you take the No1 spot in the league.
My other me had a £350,000 div on Prince William, a perfect celebrity, no 7 day gain but huge divi(+399.76%), extra coverage in tabloid and broadsheet, coming up in the next few weeks as his 21st birthday is on the 21 June. Buy early!
Celebdaq
BLOBBLE (User ID: 3183175)
Yes I had Phil (and Anthony & Linda) - but didn't have the kind of funds you have to invest. I've also got Prince Billy who's been doing nicely for me. My long term banker is J.K.Rowling who's going to go ballisting mid June methinks.
None
Or even ballistic.
woo
Well, I'm doing better than I was, though I think it'll only be this week that we see any real improvement - I don't really have time to do it very often, but it's a useful break from revision, so I am going there on a reasonably regular basis. Keanu Reaves is doing me very nicely thankyou... I picked up 10000 shares for not very much, and hopefully we'll have a nice dividend this week.
Rowling along
I'm not sure she will tbh... Harry Potter will get lots of coverage, but will that all count to her?
me again...
What I want to know is how on earth the guy who's number 1 today got an increase of 30156090.00%
Hurry up Harry
[G III] I don't know how they work that out . . . if there was a huge article all about how Harry Potter turns young minds to jelly, and at the end it says "Harry Potter is written by J.K.Rowling", does the whole article count towards her, or just the last sentence ?
me again also
[G III] There are going to be some anomolies - like the fact I got NO dividends despite owning Phil Tuffy for almost the whole week.
Celebdaq
Never heard of it. Just logged in and by the time I had selected half a dozen "celebs" I was down a hundred quid. Eighty percent of these "celebs" I had never heard of - probably because they don't have "blankety blank" or "celebrity squares" here in Italy.
Quick losses
[IS,P!] That'll be because they charge a fee for transactions...
Sumthing funny going on...
[IS,P] But hang on. If you play your cards right, you'll make back the cost of the commission. A good place to look for tips is on www.thesun.co.uk showbiz pages...
BTW, What is happening to Phil Tuffnell? Who's selling all their shares and causing him to crash? The 'Get Me Out Of Here!' celebrities only flew back into Heathrow last night, and he got a full page in The Sun today, so I suspect there are some anomalous market figures going round. And how the hell do you make 30 million per cent profit, as today's chart-topper has?
In like a ...
Blobble enters the league at a stunning No 5.
Big %
One way to get a huge % would be to invest in a celeb who is plastered all over the papers (so you know you will get a large div) and just before the divs are dished out, do a load of trading (ie. endlessly buy and sell) to reduce your worth to next to zero by the end of the day. 7 days later you will have whatever your divs were plus a weeks trading and your % increase will be huge. It might be possible to get (divide by zero)% :o)
or then again ...
(divide by zero error)%
celebdaq
Umm, do I exist any more? I can't log in and the system claims not to know who snorgle is! Am I still in the league?
Someone's there
snorgle]your still there in the league with your id 2818390, I hope your password lets you log on soon.
I Say, Porter!]for a bit of extra fun post your id No and join the MC league. Can you stay ahead of Wol and blamelewis?
Oh no they aren't
You reply to the auto reply thing but there is still "nothing known about ISayPorter". Bah. Worth starting again?
starting again...
Nope. Generates the really useful error message: "Error". What genius came up with that, give him or her a raise.
Caps Lock
[snorgle] Just to note that Celebdaq logins are case sensitive. I had trouble when I first joined due to that.
Celebdaq
OK ID number 3244310 and currently about 190,179 in the chart (up 15 quid or .15 pecent)
celebdaq
I can get in again! It wasn't caps lock, I checked that last night. Probably just a glitch on the system.. I think Keanu Reeves must be a good buy with the Matrix Reloaded opening soon..
celebdaq
Does anyone know how to change your password on celebdaq? I've been searching for a way how, but can't find anything!
Passwords
Try here...
And if that doesn't work
dunno whether that'll cause problems, but basically you have to go to the portfolio, go to 'register for cash prize or update details' and it's in there.
celebdaq
[GIII]thanks!
squillions
I made a million - yay! *cackle*
morning tea
evil_edna]get on your broomstick and I'll race you to the top!
Celebprat
Thanks or attaching me to the MC league, whoever did it.
What a plonker I am. I had Phil Tufnell, Linda Barker & Anthony W-T which were doing nicely. I knew they'd slide in value after the show finished, but thought the divi was worked out on a daily basis - so sold Phil & Anthony the day before the divi was announced. So of course I got no (huge) divi. Ho hum - learn from mistakes.
Slightly amazed to find myself in 3rd posn. in the MC league @ moment. Can't see that lasting !
What a plonker
Was making a few cunning trades at the weekend, calculated to be in David Beckham at divi time, and one of the trades must have got stuck in the door. I came in this morning to find I had nearly 170,000 in cash and virtually no shares, so no divi this weekend. Groan.
Thanks to Kneecapping . . .
I'm on top of the world!
Kneecapping
Presumably when you get to a million you dump back down to 10,000 but get that little wad of green notes by your name - is that right ? How then do you get the sports car and yacht that I see some people sporting for pity's sake ?
Re: Kneecapping
[Blob] It says here.
Celebdaq
I've not had much time to concentrate on it for a while now but I think I'm no good cos I went at first for celebs who interested me rather than ones who might grab headlines, so I'm saddled with a lot of loss makers... I bought lots of JK Rowling and Keanu Reeves when they were cheap though so those strategies are finally paying off!
Celebdaq icons
[DrQ] Thx. Tell me, looking at the Bill Gates Icon for £1bn - is he doing a multicoloured fart, or am I just imagining things ?
Chilliness
Bit quiet the noo... Any particular reason? Working hard? Found something in our lives more fulfilling than MC? Me? I've got a talk to write... grrr...
toasty
I've been away, and busy both sides of that; I don't post much here but often keep an eye on things. I managed to skillfully avoid checking 52 pairs of glasses today, and did an exensive literature search instead. Didn't find much interesting. Ho hum.

Time for dinner - tempted by pizza and DVD, really.

*rereads*
(DVD provides fibre, you see)
Boggled slightly the other day by the sight of a CD shredder. My, I live a sheltered life. Or something.
Jolly good
Incidentally I think the celebdaq people should be warned that Big Brother is starting again at the end of the week. Presumably they add 'celebreties' to the list as time goes on; in the meantime, maybe Davina might be worth investing in?
Quietude
[rab] I've been working and doing housy stuff, mainly, when I haven't been uploading broken fixes to OMC. I'm currently considering turning on my work machine so I can get on with my day working at home. Although I may wait another hour so I can start nearer a normal time.
Big waste of time
Was thinking of starting a new fund and doing two big brother trackers - one for people still in there, and one for people who've been voted out. Don't know why, but thought there might be some value in the exercise. Thinks: revision is getting to my head. I need to get out more.
Procrastination
GIII] For what are you revising?
Woohoo!
A paper that I spent most of February writing has been described by the editor of the receiving journal as 'truly superb'. That's an accolade that deserves a beer I think...
woo-hoo-ing
[Rab] Excellent news. Well done. Just a half for me, thanks. :o)
'Academia'
[rab] congrats!
[Btd] Doing my finals in music at Fenland Polytechnic, starting Monday (joy!!!) :)
congratulations!!
Dear Professor rab:
Thank you for submitting your paper to the Journal of ____________. I have now received the comments of two highly qualified reviewers, and I regret to inform you that while both reviewers and myself agree that the paper is truly superb, we none the less feel that it addresses a rather narrow technical topic of limited interest and therefore does not make sufficient contribution to warrant publication in our journal.

Thank you for submitting your truly superb work, and I am sorry that the outcome was not more favourable.

Yours sincerely, The Editor.
Academia
Hmmm. Sixteen thousand words to write by next Wednesday (Master's Dissertation). Good job the girlfriend is away for the weekend - no nagging me about staying awake 24 hours a day. I plan to be "resisting a rest" a lot. Anybody know anything about how to stay awake whilst reading Data Warehousing sh1te?
congratulations
Dear Professor rab:
Thank you for submitting your paper to the Journal of ____________. I have now received the comments of two highly qualified reviewers, and I am delighted to inform you that both reviewers and myself agree that the paper is truly superb. Accordingly, we should like to proceed with publication as soon as possible. In view of the quality of your work, we are prepared to have it prepared for publication at the reduced fee of £1520, a reduction of £20 on the usual tariff of £1540. Please enclose a further sum of £2340 for your 1000 half-price concessionary copies of the Journal, to distribute to your friends and colleagues. We shall proceed, therefore, as soon as we have your cheque or banker's draft for £3959.99 (including £79.99 postage and packing).

Yours sincerely, The Editor.

Chortle
[gil] Don't joke. There's one very well known and wealtby US journal of physics that sends out a bill for publication of your work. In extremely tiny print you can find the word "voluntary"... but it is hidden...
Finals
[GIII] All the best!
Data Warehousing the Exciting Way
[ISP] Try and think of how all the theory you're reading about might be used. For instance, imagine a database of all the MC games online, all the players, all the IP addresses they were played from, all the timestamps, replicated from the servers in real time while people play. You could come up with fascinating information like how particular players vary their posting times over, er, time, or what each player's favourite move is, or some query which you would actually need a data warehouse for!

That's the way I made some of my AI papers more relevant to me, anyway. At the time it was examples from roleplaying, but the point is the same.

Data Warehousing
Thanks, Dunx, it beats my plan to write "I am a fish" three thousand times, do a full double Rimmer and then faint.
What is that ?
"A full double Rimmer" ? The mind boggles.
Rimmers
[Boolbar] It's an excessively elaborate fictional naval salute, as devised by Arnold Rimmer from "Red Dwarf", who was notoriously bad at exams on account of devoting two months and three weeks of his three-month revision time to designing a revision timetable.
Red Dwarf
I recommend the first couple of Red Dwarf books, the authors are "Rob Grant" and "Doug Naylor", who also appear in Amazon's catalogue as "Naylor, Grant". IF you are interested in the DVDs of the series, they are also highly recommended, the stars are Chris Barrie and Craig Charles.
What a pullover!
We had the mother of all power cuts last night. A pneumatic drillster managed to slice his way through the main electricity supply to the north-eastern segment of Manchester University... I didn't see it myself, but the sparks were said to be quite spectacular. The drillster was - amazingly - unharmed. However, the same cannot be said of our computer system. It often comes across as though the whole thing is held together by three pieces of string and a lump of chewing gum. For a while the main server had no case and was wrapped up in 'Police Line -- Do not cross' tape. I jest not. Anyway, I can just about get a login, but seeing as the main server is going up and down like a pair of whore's knickers, the best I can do right now is to fire up Netscape 4 on a twm desktop. What nostalgia... But at least I'm pleased I wrote these pages in such a way that you can actually look at them on steam-powered browsers. (In fact, dare I say it, but they work rather well on lynx, lest anyone ever need to go back to the 1930's).
None
[rab] Ah, the Camputers Lynx...
celebdaq
I am number one, one, one...Yay! Thank you Keanu!
None
Since this is the gaming room, are we having a Big Brother sweepstake this year?
Big Bro
Why not? I think I'll get in early with Cameron. A Baptist fish trader from Orkney... sure he'll go far!
Anouska
I'll ride on Nush but can she get her claws into Freddy. If you are voting keep Anouska in she was nominated for being annoying and too loud by 7 out of 12 on first impressions. Vote out the bland.
None
So, are you picking Anouska with dark hair or Nush the blonde? Whichever it is, I'll take the other one. Must say the blokes seem incredibly dull this year. But it's impossible to guess the winner, since (a) the audience do exactly what Graham Norton tells them to do every night, and (b) gambling syndicates rigged so many votes last year, knocking off high rollers like Alison and Spencer early on. (And I still can't believe Kate won. :o(
??
What on earth are you people talking about?
None
OK, I'll admit, I do know. But I wish I didn't. I certainly intend to learn none of the non-entities' names this year, which I miserably failed in last year, although in my defence I was working in TV and could hardly avoid it.
Nush
Well, Nush will definitely get to week 9 so I'm picking her. The other 3 will be Sissy, Federico and... er... Gos. No-one'll vote out the chef.
You think?
I'm not so sure. I watched Sunday night's edition, but it was like the proverbial paint drying. I think I'll give them a few days to calm down and stop shouting at each other before going back. Nush hadn't made much of an impression thus far, but by being blonde and female, stands a similar chance to Kate last year. I agree with you about Gos, but I wondered if Sissy was sticking her head too far above the parapet to last very long...
Can we have some radio based games?
No TV - so Celebdaq and Big Bro games leave me cold. How about a sweepstake on the next member of the Archers cast to cop it or leave? I reckon Peggy is not long for this world... BTW did anyone catch ISIHAC? Humph was in fine form. I still miss the 'scoring' element though - it is almost as if they've given up on the spoof gameshow idea.
TV or not TV
I do find Big Brother incredibly dull but Celebdaq has little to do with TV. I heard the Archers the other day and thought it needed sub-titles. [ISIHAC] There were new games! I don't know if "Hunt the Ring" would transfer well to this site, unless we threaded the string through all the tube stations.
TV or just plain bi?
[BtD] I don't think we're having Celebdaq/Big Bro games as such, just bantering about them here. We did have a BB game last year, but if I recall it was only me, Martha and Nina who played it so I don't think we'll do that again. I think it's sufficient just to put the odd comment here as and when things happen, as a little light relief from the usually onerous, high-brow discussion that goes on... er, right.
Humph!
[Bool] I disagree about Celebdaq having little to do with TV. You need TV to know who the Celebrities are. I've just gone back to the Celebdaq site and checked out the top five on the home page. I know of Keanu Reeves and David Beckham but I've never heard of Lisa Scott Lea, Eva Herzigova or Penny Lancaster. Ho hum - my sheltered existence ;o) Has anyone seen my ring?
Pah!
[Bob the Dog] I disagree with you disagreeing about Celebdaq having little to do with TV. I have a TV but also haven't heard of Lisa Scott Lea, Eva Herzigova or Penny Lancaster. Wouldn't stop me buying shares in them! [Ring] Sorry, I have not got your ring.
Hello Boys!
Isn't Eva the Wonderbra model?
None
No, I don't have the ring either. But I think DrQu+xum has.
None
DrQu+xum, have you seen my ring?
Pedlin' pedlin' pedlin' -- rawhide!
[BigBro] Caught last night's Big Brother. They've got them pedalling for 72 hours, two at a time. As pointed out to me in the pub last night this is quite a smart move, because it breaks the group up so they have more one-on-one, or two-on-two conversations where you stand a chance of actually being able to hear anything. Also, it gives those weirdos who tune into the live show at 4am something to look at. I currently don't dislike any of them at the moment, and there seems to be a distinct lack of tension at the moment. Certainly in the last two years there's been tension from pretty much day one. In particular last year-- witness Alex noting that someone had swiped some sausages and Jade mouthing off almost as soon as she had arrived. They all seem a bit too relaxed and thoughtful this year. Oh well, I'm sure once Big Brother has starved them out, both in terms of nourishment and of things to do, they'll all start to get on each other's tits and the real fun can begin.

Meanwhile, I think you should be asking Herr Wagner about the whereabouts of the ring.

None
[Dr Q] No? What's that you've got in your left hand then?
Strange but true!
I've just seen something amusing. An ambulance which has been wheel-clamped. It was parked in close proximity to A&E, but on double yellow lines. Made me laugh lots.....
Ambulance mularky
Given the recent news about the ambulance driver up in court for taking a liver for transplant at 104mph, I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Bloody traffic police is I think my final answer. The guy whose life was saved by the liver has offered to pay any fine, which I think is rather sweet.
I'd be lying if I didn't tell you
Some fabulous lies going on at the moment, I was sniggering at my desk. :oD
Snigger
[pen] Better to laugh with your desk rather than at it if you to avoid hurting its feelings. It may seem wooden and impassive, but that's just a veneer.
None
*chortle*
None
Well if Dr Q hasn't got my ring, who has?
moving Scansion War II out of the limerick game...
[CdM rab et al] So if another scansion war isn't required, why make your criticisms public? I responded to what I thought was an unecessary criticism, but I won't mention this again.
Warring fractions
[penelope] I can't speak for CdM but no offence was meant. I can't recall if you were around at the time, but about 4 years ago there was a huge hoo-hah at York (possibly even when it was still at York) brought about by there being two polar opposite views about what was and what wasn't acceptable form in a Limerick. This was a particularly ugly episode and one which I, for one, would not like to see repeated. So why make the views public? I can't see anything wrong with gently pointing out that moves are perhaps not quite appropriate for the games in which they are played as long as it's done (a) nicely and (b) rarely. If one feels that, say, a Limerick doesn't have any of the defining features thereof (without there being some point behind the rule-bending, which can sometimes be humorous in its own right), then perhaps this is worth remarking on. I understood the comments about not wanting to get into an argument about just that: let's comment, refute, have Jerry's final thought and move on. But we now seem to have got into an argument about it :) Cup of tea? Rich tea finger?
Limericky
Yes, maybe it wasn't a classic, but I thought it worked ok:
.
In fact, Dr. Q's line had good word painting...
A-ha
[GIII] I see you've found your displacement activity!
None
I guess it comes down to whether you can hear these things or not. Even with the dots, I still find it quite difficult to get the rhythm right; clearly you, pen and the other participants found it less of a strain and so I'll shut up.
None
Still more in tune than Jemini, though.
true story
T'was limericks that brought me to MC
But my poor scancion you see
Raised several alerts
And with my doom a good cert
I gave up. :)
Playing well with others
No offence was intended, and I apologise, seriously and unreservedly, for causing it. While I disagree with GIII, I will bite my tongue and I won't argue the merits of this particular limerick further; anyway, as rab said, such matters are at part in the ear of the beholder, or the eye of the listener, or something. My posting in part reflected my general feeling that the limericks here and elsewhere have been below average quality over the last few months because several people don't spend enough time thinking about scansion and stress. As a result, I find myself posting less and less to them. The fun in the game is in collectively crafting a well-formed and funny end product; if we are not succeeding in doing that (and more often than not I think we are not), then the fun disappears for me. Others of course disagree, and that's fine.

I should add two things: (1) I am of course as guilty as anyone of the occasional bad line; and (B) I think pen typically contributes some of the very best limerick lines, and so I am particularly sorry that she was in my line of fire.
None
The secret of well-scansioned verse is this:
To hear each line like music in the ear
And yet to also hear it as 'twere prose.
The metre's like a shoe of certain form:
It yields not to a wrongly shapèd foot
But presses it into its tum-ti-tums.
The foot that fits the metre well, is thus
Enhanced by rhythm's clockwork-like progression.
But if the foot bears no resemblance to
The stressed and unstressed points along the line
Then like to bunioned club it will appear
When forced into a shoe however pretty.
The metre is the bezel, sense the stone
That fitted well together make a jewel
The versifier's craft combining them
Into a whole that's greater than its parts.
None
Wot CdM and Raak said. I should probably add my apologies to pen for unwittingly adding fuel to the fire.
None
Isn't anyone going to own up to seeing my ring?
group hug
After judcious application of several cups of tea, a Rich Tea finger (thanks rab) and as a last resort when the first two measures proved insufficient, a Quarter Pounder with Cheese, Regular Fries and Vanilla Milkshake, I'll gratefully acknowledge everyone's points which were intended constructively I'm sure, thank them for their continued interest in my limericking career and try and maintain my standards. :o). I am pre-menstrual... did it show?
Ring-a-ding-ding
[BtD] Does your ring sing or look like a thing?
limericks
whhoooooosh... I missed all that! No fair, I didn't get tea or biscuits! And someone stole that nice shiny ring I found under the (empty) teapot..
Three cheers rab
MC5 has some damn fine games and excellent players right now. Green and Blacks caramel choc ice creams all round.
I scream, you scream ...
It's finally stopped raining in Manchester, and the sun's come out, so I could quite happily suck an ice cream just now. [snorgle] cream puff? eclair?
Games
[btd] I'm pleased that the Fish of the Day seems to be to several people's tastes.
ice cream
rab, thanks for reminding me of that lovely ice cream in the freezer...YUM! Still hot after 11pm - I'm glad I bought that fan last year, I need it tonight.
BB4
I'm glad it was Anouska who went yesterday, in my opinion Jon has to stay as he's so strange, he's amusing. Still want Steph to win, not sure why!
BBBBBBBB
Interesting that The People ignored Moyles, Norton, The Mirror and the rest of the anti-Jon camp.
limericks and brothers big
[BB] I reckon Jon's good comedy value, and the shots of his describing in detail a Star Wars novel while cutting away to the guys nodding off were very funny. However it also reminded me of a frustration I found in earlier series - editorial slant - I've seen very little of this series so far but already have watched two extended episodes of Jon's "boring stories" which are it seems to me being given more precedence by the editors.
[Limericks] Missed the fun, but I'd like to offer my 2p and a disclaimer that no offense is intended to anyone. I find lines with dodgy scansion frustrating reading and playing the limerick games, but I think all we can ask is that players make an honest attempt to fit the scansion, with a little squeezing or odd stressing if that's necesary for a line they really like. It's always subjective of course and I'll try to read a line a few times if it jars at first. End of 2p...
Star fish
rab]By coincidence Anouska had the largest votr 46% and also was the big divi on Celebdaq. (Come on rab get an id you it makes sense). I must admit to being in the anti-Jon camp, but his style has grown in me since his unique rendition of Hotel California very Shatneresque. Spooky.
SoapboxIn Carp Diem, I think it is too soon to change its direction to "what they say/what they mean" with english/english. My enjoyment has come from a "word or phrase in another language" followed the translations.end soapbox
None
[Inkspot, re Soapbox] I was thinking the very same thing.
AOL
[Inkspot, Raak] Well, one could plausibly consider John Prescott's patois as a foreign language. However, the point of the game is that it is foreign words/phrases and there's still plenty of those to keep the game going for a few days at least.

[BB4] Yes I forgot about the 'editorial slant'. It's worth watching a few of the live bits then the highlight show to find out hgow the editorialising works. The Sunday night show is particularly good for this, as they will always show an edited version of Saturday night's live task. Plus you get the pop-pscychology from Manchester Uni's most famous member of staff (and thus, I s'pose, strictly speaking one of my colleagues) which is C4's risible attempt to make the show 'respectable' rather than just admit it's just pandering to the homo sapiens' instinctive desire to peer over the garden fence (or, in times of yore, drill a hole into the next cave).

Test case
[Inkspot, Raak] Did my int main(void) count as English in your opinion?
Re: Test case
[rab] Thin end of the wedge, driven a little deeper by Dunx, then split wide open by DrQu+xum.
Re: Re: Test case
[Raak] I'll go Robin Cook if you like... :)
Re: Test Case
[Raak] I figured Scottish dialect was probably sufficiently non-English. No?
None
[Dunx] I am torn between pro-Scottish zeal urging me to agree, and anti-English zeal urging me to poke fun at Sassenachs claiming to be unable to understand perfectly clear Glaswegian. :-)
Torn
[Raak] Being half-Scottish myself, I feel the same conflict. However, I am also painfully aware that there are huge swathes of Scottish dialect which I do not understand despite my ability to understand thicker accents than many.
Reality Bites
Re BB: first of all let me say that no matter how trite or sensationalist you might think British reality shows are, trust me when I say that the US output is far, far worse. I will revise this opinion only when shows of the salacious feebleness of "Joe Millionaire" and the show hosted by Monica Lewinsky are made in Britain.

Having said that there was a piece on the radio the other day about these shows, and there was a remark which struck me - the reporter suggested that these programmes are social experiments masquerading as mass entertainment, whereas the thing that for me distinguishes British efforts in this arena is that they are exactly the opposite: there is always some affectation of worthiness, such as the Big Brother psychologist.

Of course, later tha same day I heard the chairman of the FCC ask rhetorically (and apparently without irony) if there was any other broadcast system in the world that the listener would choose to replace the US one with.

Daq
I have finally succumbed to this celebdaq business. Trading as RadiantAndBeautiful my ID is 3293427. Could someone add me to the appropriate league, or how to do it myself?
Other news
I was wondering whether to kill the bad tempered imposters and replace them with something more interesting. Any comments?
It was I
I have to own up to spawning the bad tempered imposters. For a while it buzzed, but I agree, we could do with a new game or two. Any last comments before I park the Beige Allegro?
on the red carpet
RadiantAndBeautiful, in chauffeur driven Metro has swept into Beckingham Palace, a full array of D list celebrities await inside.
replacing imposters with...
How about a short game of libellous ghost-written profiles, as they're not immediately available elsewhere in the Morniverse? Players profile (eek - I've just used a nouveau verb) each other, probably in approximate alphabetical order, with each contributor posting a single sentence to the victim's profile. And shall we make it a maximum of three sentences per profile to keep it short and sweet? Any 'A's??
ghastly
Or do I mean ghostly? The alphabetic order thing might be a bit difficult to organise. I reckon we just supply them at random with the 3-sentence restriction pen suggests and perhaps additionally each profiler may profile each profilee once only. (But you can profile as many players as you like). Waddayareckon?
celebs
btw, who are 'moreteaplease' and 'ffish'?
Verbing
[pen] I think you're alright on the "profiling"; it may be new to you, but it's a verb which has been in use in computing since before I was programming for money.
Celebs
Ffiish'll be me...
Sorry
I got bored.
Re. Pro-filing
Are we "doing" one person at a time or just randomly profiling each other? CDM has profiled gil after a first line aboput pen. I'm confused.
None
By the way, ISIHAC last night was a classic. Esp Cow, Lake, Bomb.
Randomness
[BtD, profiles] No, just do them as they come to mind (so you could do gil, penelope, or anyone else for that matter, with no detriment to others' creativity). I much prefer it that way. The reason many games (like the Fourth Estate) get stuck is that only one ticket is open at a time, and it's tricky taking the responsibility for closing it.
retentive
[btd isihac classic] surely in the spirit of MC, profiles should be clerihew/limerick/couplet or something...
What happened?
I added a profile but it seems to have vanished! Have I been edited?
Grim Reaper
Talking off bumping off games, nothing much seems to be happening with the face pyjamas... Anyone agree with zapping it in favour of something else? I haven't seen any server in the Morniverse doing a game of book club/film club/songbook recently...
Six feet under
It's been stuck now twice after a move I made. It's either me or it's not. In either event, deep-six it with my blessing at any rate.
Last Night's ISIHAC
First class, I thought. It had everything.
Milk
I'm waiting I'm waiting for you...
You probably don't care
Sorry if your moves got lost. What happened was that we ended up with two mc5s on the go at once (mc10?) so if you 'think it's been working all day' then I'm afraid it hasn't. I have got copies of both sets of files, so I may work in lost moves as appropriate. On the other hand, I might do what I was really looking forward to doing today (see Books).
gasps
I need a beer.
None
[Uncle K] Crescenter's Film Club at Orange? [All] Original suggestions preferred.
Daq
Hmmm... all the shares I bought bar two have gone down in the past day. Oh well; maybe I was looking too far into the future...
swooning
Ooh, I've come over all feint. Maybe it wasn't such a good idea to give blood without eating anything before. Think I'll lie down, then find food. *Lib lies down on the library floor, much to the bemusement of other library goers*
Original suggestion
Mmmabe Quickfire Darwin Crescent where the winner is the penultimate move - inspired by the Darwin awards.
Zoom
Or a game of Quickfire Too Many (insert player name here)
Crescenters' film club
That game seems to be purely on the one topic, whereas on ISIHAC itself, there's a different topic each time it's played - this could be run in a similar way to the now-deceased historical headlines when a new topic could be launched when players felt that the current one had run dry.
all peaky
[Lib] I tried to give blood twice, but they told me not to come back, after I went into shock both times. Hmph.
Film clubs
[Uncle Korky] Such indeed is the way the film club games generally run. Feel free to suggest moving on to a new topic.
Decision
So the decision is whether to broaden the scope of the currently running Film Club at Orange, or whether to start an all-new broad Multimedia Club church elsewhere (e.g. here).
None
[Lib, flerdle] I would like to give blood, but the Red Cross don't want blood from anyone who has been in Britain for more than three months. Since I lived there for 33 years, they won't take it. Never mind that I stopped eating meat in 1988...
None
I should clarify - the Red Cross in the US. They're the organisation that runs the blood donation programme here in the States.
film clubs
[rab] Not really one of the trickier decisions. Meanwhile, Blob's horoscope suggestion might work nicely here, I think.
wanting
Not wanting to seem autocratic in anyway that's all. Ditto re the Bloboscope; who's for the chop?
Chopper
I like blobs idea very much Well - and Beige Allegro has seen less action recently. For whoever is first with the chopper the winning move is Shaft. Appropriately.
much Well?
Well quite much.
Ark
[BtD] Appropriate for what, young man?
Honours
Would someone like to do the honours and bless the Bloboscope game with a witty title. I can't think of one.
Re: Honours
[rab] Well, Bloboscope seems pretty reasonable if a little Blob-specific. How about "Tall, Dark and Strange"?
None
Or "Cross My Palm With Silver"?
Honours (1st class)
Or, to quote The Divine Comedy Why not cross my palm with plastic, and we'll see what we can do (or a pithier version thereof)?
Massive Adaq
Can someone explain the delisting procedure? According to the news, they're going to delist two BB4 contestents, but I'm not sure how I'll be able to guess/influence which two, if at all.
Crossing
[rab] I am touched, although I would have thought that was obvious already.
It's time to vote...
[rab] on the front page there are two buttons - "list" and "de-list" which will allow you to vote, and let you view the results. Sell Anouska soon...
Help!
Having just changed my ISP (to BT) and upgraded my PC to XP - I am occasionally getting advertising messages popping up when I'm online. Typically they are a box with a message like "You have won £1,000 ring...", "I'm looking for love in your area" or "Earn from home...". I think someone has somehow got my PC id number because it is always displayed at the top of the message. As I need the internet to do my job, this is intensely irritating. Do any of you know how I can stop these messages?
IE IE O
BtD]If you run IE like me there's not much hope, but those that run the browser Opera are able to refuse pop ups.
Popups
Are these REALLY browser popups from your own browser? There are some spywareish creatures that can cause these. A personal firewall can shut them up.

If they are browser popups, then there is always ad-aware to stop spawning advertising windows and spyware. Simply inhibiting all popups can be inconvenient.

Poptarts
Inkspot/gil] Thanks. I think that they must be spyware dodahs because they quote my PC ID and sometimes appear when OE is running and IE is off. Can you recommend good (inexpensive) personal firewall software?
boingy
ZoneAlarm seems to work ok. They have a free version. Hopefully, here is their site and here is the link to a free version. If you choose it they nag you a bit to upgrade. If you look around the rest of download.com you might get a few more ideas.
None
Free program "Ad-Aware" from Lavasoft clears out all spyware stuff. I've also used the Opera browser with much happiness.
will ye no come back again
[Martha Farquar] Hm. Now I come to inspect the games, you haven't been seen for a while at Dan's. Or here for that matter. At any rate, posting this here too. If you still have a working email address, maybe you could mail me it.
popdown
Thanks all above - Ad-Aware installed and seems to have worked. I've downloaded Opera too, but it isn't working properly yet...
Hello moto
[Proj] I mailed you last night and again just now. NB. I've only played once at Dan's in about 4 years.

[Bob,gil] I switched off all Java and JavaScript on my browser ages ago and it's never inconvenienced me even slightly.

hello mudder, hello farder
[MF] Ah yes, so you did.
Haul, wobble, scream, plunge
If you're wondering why I was a bit quiet yesterday it's because I was at Alton Towers doing silly rides involving me being turned upside down, generally spun about, dropped into a hole, gliding on my back and, much to the amusement of the rest of the party, getting extremely moist and clammy on the rapids. Great fun, and I note the Bloboscope has taken off with some alacrity. Marvellous.
For furc's sake
I wonder if Blob or maybe matt might like to provide a Furcation. I also recall Projoy having a talent for this kind of thing too...
Furcing Hell
[rab] I was going to furcate a while ago - but then discovered that I had things to do that were a little more pressing. If I find I have a spare hour I'll do what I can - but my psychiatrist has only just signed me off as clear of the nightmares caused by Acre Street, I'm not sure that dragging it all up again would be too wise. But then I'm not - wise that is.
Freetime and Furcin'
I do find it hard to pass up games like that, and I was in fact planning a particularly fiendish move which would have upset the game dreadfully, resolved the various chronology problems it has and set an impossible challenge for other players to rise to, but unfortunately at the moment I'm applying for a new job while writing a show and organising a recording session, and even showing up in the office occasionally, so it has been impossible to begin. If y'all could see your way clear to leaving it on the front page until July, I might be able to actually do it.
None
Oh, and can I just say how much I am enjoying Breadmaster's horoscopes.
abso-furcing-lutely
[rab] I am intending to, just as soon as I have a moment-or-six.
Furcing brilliant
[Blob, Projoy, matt] I fully appreciate these difficulties. I generally have to set aside a weekend just to think about it... good to see there's some interest though.
A change of subject...
I stress that this is because I have never 'furced' and therefore it would be inappropriate for me to comment on this topic... I had an idea for a new game last night. Whilst watching the rather-splendid "Where Eagles Dare" on C5, I somewhat irritated my wife by pointing out various cast members here and there who'd been in Doctor Who. She did (and many of you also probably will) called me a sad anorak. However, she did challenge me to make connections to the series from other actors, and, thus, I ended up playing "Six Degrees of Doctor Who" - and worryingly-successfully too...! Of course, should this prove a potential game with you, my fellow Crescenters, it could always be adapted to any topic. I would suggest that anyone who makes the run of connections then deposits the name of a subsequent performer for another player to make a link with.
Hmmm...
[Uncle K] Sounds interesting. If it's Dr Who I suspect Thos might be interested, if anyone knows where to track him down. I guess there will also be some web-based resources to help the rest of us out.
Listing
[Celebdaqqers] Now, I have a problem. One of the BB4 people who I have shares in stands a reasonable chance of being delisted. I wouldn't want to sell my shares before the dividends are awarded, but presumably I lose my cash should the delisting occur... I presume I can't have my cake and eat it in this instance.
None
[rab re: web based resource] There did used to be a page that enabled you to do the "Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon" game (as it's popularly called, but just now I can't google it.
Kevin Bacon
[Projoy] I'm sure that's a game they used to play in Empire magazine. They also did a version with Christopher Lee.
daquiri
The dividend has been awarded. Sell now.
Divis
[GIII] You know that for a fact? Can't see any reference to it myself.
but
...I took your advice anyway.
Strawberry celebdaquiris
I've got mine :o). Spent it already, heheheh
Celeb-duck!
Mine too :)
Proj 1
The "particularly fiendish move" wouldn't be Reverse Acre Street-related, would it? :o)
Proj 2
Did you try this one?
Proj 3
Check your mailbox in 10 minutes or so.
Someone took my advice! woo!
look here, and then check out the voting...
Martha 1
Well, that was involved, but it was much worse than simply that.
Martha 2
Ah, that's the fellow. Thanks.
Martha 3
I checked. Very useful. Thanks very much. Will reply when less tied up.
celebrity MC
Fridays post divi leagues of 6 June has been saved strange how Prince William is now diving, interest in Harry won't be far behind. I can see why some on the daq are miffed as they changed the voting from one to two part of the way through, also why are last years BB like Alex still listed. And if anyone wants to join the Celebrity MC just post your Celebdaq id here.
Saville Thick Cut
Excuse me for being thick, but where do you find out what your dividends were. I don't seem to have any :(
spending cash
rab] If you have had any divi it will appear in 'cash available' in the portfolio, I've also set up "Register for CASH PRIZE or UPDATE DETAILS", and so get notified of the divi payout each Friday.
of human bondage
Those knots are darn tricky aren't they?

No, sir. I wouldn't do that, sir.

Furcing Ada!
Judging by the timestamps, it seems to have taken me the best part of 3 hours to construct a fairly desultory move in the furcation game. Admittedly there were a few distractions and my mentis may not have been entirely compos, but still, I won't be doing that again in a hurry...
Spoilsport
[matt] You're no fun any more.
Consolation
...but if it's any consolation, it took me a couple of hours to produce something not much better... (Stratford in particular is a blatant cop-out).
Hang it all
I have a proposal for a game that I have played with a friend and found to be excellent. Cardo is the same as Boardo but with playing cards. Any will do, Normal, Tarot, Donkey, Happy Families, Business etc. It is made more interesting by being played in Reverse. Collective Consciousness seems to have stalled. Any takers?
Divided
I am not aware of having received any dividents :( But at least I sold my shares in BB Jon before he was delisted. Which is a shame cos I think he's going to get a lot of tabloid coverage for as long as he stays in the house.
Down with the monarchy?
For some reason, people are selling shares in Prince Harry. Did noone see the coverage he's got these last two days?
Moanarchy
Wills is dropping like a scally girl's knickers too... odd considering it's his 21st this week (isn't it?).
Cardo
Ah, those memories of the long reverse game at !York . . . .
Not quote moanarchy
Zara Phillips is still on the rise...
avada kadavra
I'm crossing my fingers for JK Rowling, she's on the up...
JK
Yes, I've got 300,000 shares in her at the moment - so I hope she does well ! Unless I have a complete disaster I think kneecapping looms !
Millionaireship
It's all very well to make you a millionaire and reset you to 10000. But, frankly, by the time the Beckhams had had their dividend, I was MUCH more than a millionaire last week, but I still got only 10000 and an icon, and, what's more, they had left me in cash instead of leaving me 10000 worth of my favourite shares. By the time I got in Monday, I was MILES behind.
Rudeness
Yeah, that does seem a little rude. And presumably it means we just get recycled through the league table and it means nothing to be at the top or bottom.
celebdaq
It seems that the main aim of the game is to make the biggest %ge rise in the week, so the amount you start with doesn't really matter.
The main flaw with the game as I see it is that the divis are ludicrously high. If they paid out far smaller amounts then there would (a) be more import attached to how shares moved in value and (b) no need for the silly capping. Anyway, they've set the rules, so it's up to us if we want to play.
Public Service Announcement
Just to let you all know that I'm going away for a few days (everyone say 'ahhh'). So if this thing falls over on its arse I might not be able to fix it.
Although
With a bit of luck they might reset the clock :)
Sound of Slience
Ooh, rab goes away and things go really quiet round here. Rather spooky. Hmm, anyone for tennis?guest
Net Result
[Lib] Well, what's the point without rab as an audience? If what I say is not going to viewed by the mighty rab then I just won't bother.
sorry, that reads rather more sarcastically than intended
Oi
rain stopped play
[Dunx] Sacrasm's fine. [rab] Might have guessed you'd be lurking round the corner somewhere near MC land!
Veryweaktea
On celebdaq my cunning plan, by buying birthday boy Bill (PRWILL) seems to have come unstuck. With just over 100,400 shares they have droppped the best part of £1 each in one week, my value going down from Fri £405081 to £303,379 and still falling. But hey still romping away at No1. Surely Becks at £77.34 is overpriced and rising at 20p an hour?
Oh dear
The Netscape 4 compatibility dandelion seems to have been destroyed by the lawnmower of software sidegrades. Interesting, and not something I can fix while I need to, viz, in Embra.
rab's Oh dear
Any chance of a translation? I thought English was my first language. It now seems I was deluded.
Oh dear oh dear oh dear
I'm sorry Inkspot, but I appear to be top :)
Rum Daq Query
I've plopped from 2nd to 9th ! But surprisingly I've not yet been kneecapped, so I've got over £1.5m to play with.
ouch!
[Blob] It'll happen on Monday. The trick is to get yourself above 2m before then so you can get two wads of cash... I managed it last week by a slender £20,000.
Celebdaq Divvies
Where can you find the dividend payouts? And would JK Rowling have cranked up the divvies this week?
BB4
Dragging the chat back to BB, (is anyone else apart from me watching it?) but I have to say that it is far more amusing when the housemates are drunk. The main problem with them failing their tasks is that the shopping buget becomes too small to buy alcohol. And Sissy MUST go! (JON to WIN!)
Oh!
I seem to be in a new shiny place. Kudos to Nik for letting me steal some of his server space. Hopefully the weekly downtime is a thing of the past.
Ooooh!
Nice and quick as well. Thanks rab & Nik!
None
Mm, it was down earlier today for making the new subdomain work, and was down on friday for upgrading php, and was down a week or so before that for making another subdomain work, but it's all momentary stuff. The line broke a few months ago, but uptime is generally measured in months these days. Except I have to upgrade the kernel this week...

In the meantime, it all seems a lot speedier than I'd expected, so hurrah. Glad to help, and it saves me writing a server of my own.

Right...
[Nik, re downtime] But at least I know who to blame :) Just hoping that I'm not the one attracting the crackers like flies to a shite... or is it the other way round?
Speed
I think the speed might be largely due to the magic of CSS. If you look at the actual HTML, there's very little there at all.
New Game
OK, I took the liberty of upping the game count to celebrate the new home. Roll on the duff product names...
there you are...
rab]Good to see you back up and running, thanks to Nik.
On a more serious note can anyone tell me how ffish managed to get to the top of Celebrity. As for this week I'm at a complete loss but staying well clear of BB housemates.
fffffiiiiiiiiiish
That'll be me. After being kneecapped I bought nothing but Harry, having seen the papers over the weekend. Since then, I've just bought with my dividend who I thought would be helpful...
None
[Rab & Nik] Well done, gentlemen, for saving civilisation as we know it!
lucky 13
A new game! How about another - not that I'm superstitious or anything...
BeeBee
[Lib] Yes I'm watching BB and two of Jon, Fed and Cam will be going this week. Which is a shame as I quite like Cam for being so camp, Jon for being irritating. I have a nasty suspicion that Fed will stay because he's the prettiest and this seems to be what the viewing public goes for most.
Small b
I think the producers of BB have missed an opportunity to allow the public a great voting oppportunity, I would have liked to have seen four preferably five housemates up for eviction. If the thinking behind the BB stategy is because it has losing viewing figures, as the contestants sit around all day. The housemates will always nominate those that have annoyed them or upset the staus quo and it is always the same people as the others keep their heads down and play 'bland/safe'. We could end up with both Jon and Fed leaving, hey what a great interesting group of nicely well behaved and spoken celebs-to-be we'll have then.
Celeb Ducks
Dr Q has been exhorting participants in this rather questionable exploit to advise name/IDs on this banter board. Accordingly, and as usual, I am following his directives. Be warned though that, if there is a team Vs team thing going, I will undoubtedly drag you all down with me. So: ....
DUJON2774 (User ID: 3256726) is the info.
Incidentally, should the co-ordinator be within hearing distance, I assume that once a 'team member' a new menu option will appear? If not, how to I check to see if anyone else has beaten me to the bottom of the ladder?
Bloomin' fingers
I'm sure that you'll work it out... sorry, this digital mode confuses me at times. .... :-)
Being overly chatty.
It's all right, I think I found that bit. (groan)
Ta!
All of a sudden I'm up there with the 'experts' ... problem is they all have lot of little green blobs against their names. Anyhow, dear co-ordinator, thanks muchly. I shall now sink into oblivion.
older sibling
BB chat again... I'd hate to see John go because he's the only one who ever says anything provocative or interesting. He's the Rambling Nerd. I'd like to see Federico stay because sooner or later, he will crack up. He's finding out that he's the weak link, and it's not something he's used to. Cameron is the least offensive - so in my book he should really be the first to go. So my money's on Cameron and Fed. Really, though, they all seem to have forgotten it's a game show - I still maintain the first was the best, when the whole lot of 'em would sing: 'It's only a game show, it's only a game show,' as they headed over to the diary room to make their nominations.
'me too'
[Pen] I guess it didn't cross your mind but thank you for the above, as it rather nicely sums up my thoughts too, and as always, very eloquently. JON MUST STAY!
aaarrrgh
Careful, please, I don't want to memorise any of their names by accident. Can't you use some kind of code?
more generously proportioned fraternal relative
[lib&pen] Vote Jon! On a class basis alone (oops!)
BB4
In it's fourth year, Big Brother appears to have successfully elevated banality to an art form. However, I must confess to being curiously drawn to Big Brother's Little Brother - a nifty little half hour which reduces the day's 'action' to 3 bullet points each containing two words. Says it all really.
Celebdaq
Oops, nearly forgot myself then. Yes - my Celebdaq name and code: CHALKYSPIRE [3320323] I haven't the foggiest what I'm supposed to do, but figured that pressing the 'trade' button from time to time might reap dividends. Thanks for letting me join you and look forward to holding you all up.
For pity's sake, child, tie down the moons of Jupiter!
I think Breadmaster's move in Carpe Diem is one of the most beautiful phrases I've ever heard...*sigh*
Agreed
It almost deserves to be the start of a poem or song, but how would you follow it?
Dunno
...but welcome to the fold nevertheless.
for pity's sake...
I can't think of any rhymes - maybe it could be a miniature game?
Blushing
[Penelope] Why thank you - it does have that "ought to be a palindrome" sort of quality, doesn't it?
By Jove
I think it would make a wonderful opening line for a short story.
Deeply, deeply ashamed of my linguistic skills
Actually - what did the phrase really mean? I've just tried translating it on the assumption that it was Italian - or Spanish - or Portuguese - and I seem to be stumped, or at least the computer is.
tethering moons
I think it's the start of a blank verse poem, chastising a child for having too wild an imagination, and implying the consequences will be grave. I feel like it's been written already - maybe it's something I should work on.
Son pittore ancor io!
[Breadmaster] It came from the Oxford Dictionary of Quotations. To summarise their explanation, on seeing Raphael's St Cecilia at Bologna, c.1525, Antonio Allegri Correggio is supposed to have exclaimed, "Son pittore ancor io!" meaning, "I, too, am a painter!"
Of course...
On the other hand, he may just have seen through the window that Io had broken loose from its orbit and was hurtling towards the Earth. In a blind panic, he screamed, "For pity's sake, child, tie down the moons of Jupiter!"
None
Ah, of course, I must have temporarily forgotten! Maybe we should have a game of highly promising openings to non-existent stories/novels/plays/poems/songs, although I don't know if it would work/has already been done...
author's rights
[Penelope] I graciously permit you to use the line in question, provided I receive full acknowledgement! I thought it might be something about humanity's hubris and folly, but I think your explanation is better and much sadder. Reminds me of the more whimsical Calvin and Hobbes stories.
Celebdaq
Just registered! Details: UNCLE_KORKY (User ID: 3325317). Like Chalky, I've got no real concept of how this is all going to work, so I'll be vying for the foot of the table.
Celebdaq
I, too, have just registered. I am DARRENXYZ (User ID: 3326388).
more tea and biscuits
Uncle Korky and Darren you are pending just waiting for daq towers to load you in. Good luck. Tomorrow being Friday is divi day, can DrQ push ffish off the top. Though I have a feeling evil_edna is just bidding her time.
Going...going...gone to the man with the big beard and scythe
[Inkspot] Bidding her time?
without reserve
*cackle*
cackling...
Well, moreteaplease seems to have taken over top spot, but that's not going to last long - serious kneecapping beckons on Monday...
Early days
[Inkspot] Thanks for adding me to the league. Blimey - I've a lot of work to do...
A-ha
I knew my early investment in Ms Rowling would pay off!
Wahay!
I'm chuffed to little mint balls. Seems as though all my faffing around with the Royals has paid off . . . oops, I meant the Beckhams . . same thing, really. Cheers Inkspot and thanks DrQ - the Pants invasion appears to be gaining support [see The Chatter Page] :-)
Crikee
[Chalky] Not sure I like the sound of a pants invasion... though on the other hand if you're free tonight my number is...

[All] You might be touched to learn that the Manchester Evening News is running a special David Beckham Memorial Issue.

Unapologetically cross-posted
*clears throat* Ahem. May I just take this opportunity to point out that we are just over a week away from a Pilg? Saturday, June 28th, Australians promised, along with some unusual diversions. It may be wise to get there early, since there is wild talk of approaching the Great Place by 1:30, unlikely as that may seem.
Pilgards
I'd be really up for that if my brother wasn't getting married in Paris that weekend. I do a SoloPilg most times I'm in London, making sure I buy a genuine Mornington Crescent Ticket when I'm standing in the hallowed hall. I sometimes gift them to friends on birthdays and the like. They make great bookmarks. My family think I may be certifiable.
Kneecapping imminent
Who's moreteaplease? Also, if you are at £2,999,999 at the point of kneecapping, do you only get 2 wads of cash and end up forfeiting £989,999?
Depilg
Sadly I booked a wee weekend away, so am unable to make what looks set to be a stonking pilg, what with both bearded Australians and teenage hackers called Tiffany in attendance.
Alter ego
(ram being my slightly more random persona).
Delerious
*Lib skips into the crescent, does five cartwheels and an arab-spring, then collapses on the floor, smiling and murmuring "I've passed! I've passed"*
Passed?
... Baker Street picking up a gold podume? ... I'm sure congratulations are in order whatever it is.
*hands Lib a slightly melting Kit Kat and glass of flat lemonade* Well Done!
Lib the delerious
CONGRATULATIONS! I say that - because you appear to be Very Happy and not because I know what it is you've passed - an exam? a parcel? something painful? Anyway, keep smiling, Lib. I'm Chalky and a girly.
None
{rab and Chalky] Thanks.I've passed my finals! I'm now a Doctor! Not sunk in yet!
Doctor Lib
Blimey O'Reilly. Well done.
Further congrats
I trust they let you sober up before handing you the scalpels.
Lib
welcome. *proffers secret handshake*
Dr. Lib
Knockout!! Dr of what ?
Ah. The Doctor.
Would you classify yourself as Tom Baker-ish or more of a Sylvester McCoy-type? :)
Doctoring
[Lib] Doctor Dr. or Ph.D.?
and
Oh, and congrats as well!
More
Congratulations! And are you aiming to go further?
Uptime
So, what's the opinion thus far of mc^5's new home on beefy? I was just mentioning to Kevan that it's quite preposterous that a speedy-in-'98/9 computer hooked into the 'net on a residential DSL (with other things, including Kazaa, running alongside) outperforms a proper host both in speed and reliability/non-hacked-ness terms.

I ask because I'm a) drunk, and b) not aware of any glitches. Tell me, I'm your friendly neighbourhood BOFH.

Doctorhood
I notice that I didn't pay close attention to recent postings. Congratulations, Lib. Entertaining, vaguely related occurrence at work today. Boss&colleague:mumblemumble. Colleague: Nik, what have you got? HNC, degree, what?. Nik: Nothing. I'm completely unqualified. Boss: <blank, but firm, stare>.
Being a bit of a devil.
Nik, I wouldn't worry about it. I used to work in the banking industry (for 26 years!) and we used to take in 'graduates'. They would be those in the banking, commerce and accounting fields, of course. We used to trial them for 6 - 12 months and drop them upon other unsuspecting souls for 2 or three months at a time and then move them around in the various areas/facets of the organisation. Something like 95% either moved on, were moved on or simply froze in horror at actually having to work and simply 'deserted' ... :-) Now, I'm not denigrating degrees and the like (well, not much - my son's a B.Sc. so I can't can I?) but one wonders at times as to the worth of these degrees if their recipients are incapable of assimilating into a real world environment.

To you, Lib, congratulations, I wish that I were that well endowed intellectually.

To those of you in academia, and I gather there are a few who gather here, please do not take offence - I am merely stating my experiences.
more tea Bishop
Lib congrats, now you have more spare time don't forget to visit Celebdaq and buy a few shares post your id, ready for the post divi results like this table for Friday 20 June .
DrQ]moreteaplease is my second account, speaking of which it looks like I'm in for a sports car after the kneecapping.
badly broken html
That should really include the http: to get you to Friday 20 June .
Glitches
[Nik] ... or rather the lack thereof. It's been a very smooth transition, I think, and I've not noticed any problems. Then again, I've not been around much lately so I may not be best qualified to judge! One question I have: when you say you're on a domestic DSL service, what are the up/down speeds? I'm curious because I've been planning on running a home server for a while and wondered what the reasonable limits for an uplink might be.
Touched by cresenters good wishes...
Thank you all! I'm a medical doctor, which in my opinion is a 'fake' doctor, as opposed to clever people who actually earn the title (and don't just get is honorarily like us medics...) by gaining a PhD. However, it is rather unlikely that I'll have any more time, as the infamous junior doctor year awaits me where I have to work 1000000 hours per week!
Deglitch
[Nik] Well so far I'm pretty chuffed with the way things are going. I tend to design things for compactness rather than complexity, so the (relatively) low bandwidth is pretty much a non-issue. I can't make any promises about the nonhackedness - I still worry that something in my scripts might be partly responsble, but think it's unlikely. I've even altered them slightly when moving them on the offchance someone managed to get their hands on the original code.

The best thing as far as I'm concerned is that the sysadmin is someone who understands what this space is for. That's priceless. (But for everything else there's MasterCard).

Freakout
Hello, folks. I'm a regular at Pants, as some of you may know. I hope you don't mind me sneaking in here like this, I just wondered if I might humbly request that I be added to the Mornington Crescent Celebdaq League. My contact details are as follows: username Thraxwhirl (3328583). I'd be grateful to be on the list. Many thanks.
DSL
[Nik] Who's your ISP, and are they any good? (Well, this site seems to always be there.) BT are upgrading my exchange for broadband next month, and I'm considering going with Demon.
Lovely view Petunia
Welcome Anthrax Whirl your in at No 17.

I couldn't help myself, it was Franics my 12 year old son's fault, as I was passing his bedroom he called out "Aunt Petunia's had a howler!", so this evening instead of doing the ironing I've been engrossed in HP and the Order of the Phoenix, page 100 so many suprises I'm gripped already (by a childrens book?).

HP
[Inkspot] I have been reliably informed they're "not just children's books." A while back when I was working at a hospital, the consultants went through a phase of all reading Harry Potter, so you shouldn't feel too embarrassed. ;) They used to discuss it in the coffee room between operations.
harry potter
I spent all day yesterday reading it! It was good enough for me to want to keep reading, and I enjoyed it. I've bought best sellers before which I had to force myself to read, or skip through, but the HP books keep me engrossed, right to the end..
Degrees of understanding
[Dujon, a while ago] You question the value of certain types of degrees and of moving into the 'real world'. This is a tricky subject and one upon which I have opined before, so I shall keep it brief. From your post it's a little unclear what type of degrees your graduates had: were they specifically aimed at getting people into the banking/finance industry or a more general qualification. If the former, you have grounds for complaint.

However - and this may well be an entirely different issue - I am firmly of the belief that a University is not a training camp: if companies want their intake to have specific skills then they should stump up the cash and train them themselves rather than let the burden fall on the taxpayer. Furthermore, a University education should be largely academic: that's rather the point. This, however, has the consequence that it's not suitable for a majority of the populace and, crucially, I feel there is no shame in such institutions being 'elitist' in the sense that they select only people for whom such an education is beneficial. The main problem faced in the UK today though, as far as I can see, is that institutions with a more vocational approach to higher education have been crowbarred into an existing structure designed to do something different, and anything that isn't a 'degree' is considered a second-class qualification. Not easy to see how one can change the general public's attitude to non-degree qualifications. Anyway, that's roughly what I wanted to say though I'm not sure it makes sense.

Degrees of Separation
[rab] It's not just the UK that suffers from that problem - the USA will not grant a working visa to a foreign national (or "alien", as it is so charmingly termed) if you are taking on a job for which you do not have a relevant degree. So, however generally useless my Comp. Sci. degree has been in the real world, it at least served to allow me to take on work in the States.

This seems particularly bizarre, though, when you realise that even having a degree is irrelevant if you have more than about three years of industrial experience. That hasn't stopped hiring decisions made by my boss from being blocked because the higher management felt that the degree was from a school which "wasn't good enough". Ludicrous.

Catching up
[Dunx] It's 256kbps up, 512kbps down. Realistically, I can sustain ~30KBps up and ~60KBps down (in fact, it's been closer to 70 down the last few days). It seems to deal with stuff alright - although I've helped by installing mod_gzip in my Apache, so it compresses most things before transmission, if the client says it accepts compressed encodings.
[Raak] I moved to Nildram months back, because they were consistently the fastest, according to user testing at adslguide.org - now Eclipse have improved their network to take first place, but Nildram want the title back. It's not the cheapest, but it always work, is always fast, and the support people are decent. I give them an extra fiver a month for a block of static IPs. I'm more than happy with them, and recommend them at every opportunity.
[Dujon] Oh, I'm not worried, especially now I have 5 years of real experience on my CV.
DSL again
Of course, it's never enough - as soon as 512kbps SDSL is available and doesn't cost all the moneys in the world, I'll be having it. I'm less bothered about increased download speed, but if I had to take more to get better upload, I wouldn't be found complaining.
celebdaq
Curses! Still at number 3...however, I am now worth nearly 3.4 million before kneecapping tomorrow. I spent all my JK Rowling divvy on John Leslie, who is VERY popular at the moment..
Shhhh
Right, I'm going to say this quietly so the sabateurs don't hear. I'm off away from tomorrow until Sunday, so look after the place and don't drop any litter.
None
*peels banana and carelessly throws skin on floor* then *throws banana on floor too*. I don't like bananas!
Breadmaster Poetry
Very unusual phrase from Breadmaster in Carpe Diem, "Heaven is stunted over Mir, for there is ghostly morality within." Another poem start there perhaps!
I don't know it
Well, that was what it said to me... maybe my psyche is being writ over-large on these pages...
Cheap imitations?
So is this the one and only mc5, or is this move going to be zapped into the ether when midnight comes? And if it's so easy to set up a replacement site for this, then what about !!York?
!!York
[MF] I was going to setup a !!York archive, but I haven't had time - my usual core pottering time is on the train to and from work, but I've been driving every day for weeks now what with house stuff. I still plan on doing this, but I emphasise the word "archive" - I doubt I would make it playable.
pumpkin5 & !!Yorkwich
[MF] I certainly hope it carries on exactly the way it has.
[Dunx] Are there scripts, or is just a bunch of HTML rescued from somewhere?
Lack of clothing
Time for a little rant I'm afraid. I've just had the misfortune to go shopping for jeans. My favourite shop has gone crazy, with silly cuts, colours and patterns, so had to go elsewhere. Nothing seemed to fit, whatever size I tried. In the end I did find a nice pair of jean-type-things, but had to part with a grand proportion of the GDP of a small pacific island for the pleasure. I have come to the conculsion that I'm the wrong shape for everything!

[Thos] Fancy an apple? Or a tangerine (and you could carelessly throw the skin away with that too!)?

Rampant nudity
[Lib] You could, alternatively, have bought the small pacific island, then emigrated to it thus saving you the need to purchase warm leg-encasing garments. Just a thought.
Trousers
Bah, I can't buy trousers that fit either. Since I can find trousers with the right waist size and right inside leg, but can't actually move once I put them on, I've come to the conclusion that virtually no-one has leg muscles anymore, and it just isn't economical to make trousers that are generous around the legs in case a sprinter / cyclist / rower / rugby player / footballer comes in, since they all wear shorts, don't they...
Jeans
Oh yes, and Jeans are yet another thing that the British are notoriously gullible about. Watch the rest of the world double the price on jeans when they export them to the UK, and snigger at how these dumb Brits will still buy them, because if they're expensive, they must be good...
Jean Genie
[Ibid] As I struggle to sit comfortably in what are supposed to be relaxed fit jeans, I can only agree. Very odd about the pricing, though.
Hello? Emergency services?
Looking at the last move date, I think the furcation game may be seriously unwell...
SCREEEEEEECH!
Well, it is now.
Furcle
[Uncle Korky] I should say that I am planning a move, but I don't expect to finish it until late July, possibly early August, so I hope the game can be allowed to live until then.
Keep your furcing hands off
It's just warming up :) I could make it unkillable I guess, but that would be silly. Nottingham today, Dublin tomorrow and this site is still up.
Furcing hands nowhere near!
Good grief! At this speed, Time Team will be joining in!
Celebrip
Does anyone have any shares in Dennis Thatcher?
Thatchers
Don't think he's listed - neither is Maggie.
Dr
Belated congrats Lib!
What's up, Doc?
Lib, I forgot too... Well Done! :o)
Ducks - celebrities or otherwise.
My first 'kneecap' apparently is about to be executed. Bugger - 40% of my hard earned is about to go down the gurgler. I always knew I should work for wages and not contract my skills!
Ni!-cap
Q: If I get kneecapped on Monday, will I get the Thursday night dividends for the shares I had before then?
[Nik, re scripts]
I think Simons Mith has the York scripts. He's also got a "tarball", whatever that is.
Celebdaq
[Dujon] I think you'll lose a lot more than 40%. The kneecapping comes into effect once you hit £1million - and leave you with just £10,000 - So your minimum slash is 99%
[DrQ] I think you don't get kneecapped until Monday morning - therefore well after you've received your divis.
None
[Duj] Unless you mean that you are on £1.4m and will only be credited with one little green wadge (signifying a million) - in which case, yep, I see what you mean - I had a similar experience.
Warning, team! Improbably satisfying awful joke approaching!
Q: Have you heard about that new curry, Chicken Tarka?
A: It's like chicken tikka, only 'otter!

My apologies. One of my mates has been foisting it upon me at every opportunity for days, and I can't help enjoying it, and nor could I keep it to myself any longer.

More ducks
[Blob] Correct! That was my meaning - I know we drop back to the £10,000 level after patella paring, but at least we have a retirement fund parked in Geurnsey or somewhere. ♫♪.
As a matter of interest, has anyone had the experience of earning just over a million mark, but less than the £10,000 above? I was just wondering what happens; do you actually gain a few quid?
Wow!
A whole six days away... and no upsets. Applause, hurrah. (And I'm still in only 7th place in our league despite Ms Rowling rewarding me handsomely). Dublin was fab, thanks for asking. CdM - we went to Mulligans. Great pub, especially if you like the smokey old man thing. I have to say my Guinness buds are not finely honed, so I couldn't really tell if it was superior to that at O'Neills or the Guinness Storehouse itself, so I'll take your word for it.
Temporary position
[Celebdaq] Slightly surprised to find myself at the top of the league this morning - though I realise this is simply due to the usual suspects having been kneecapped.
Knees
[Dujon] Yes. It just happened to me.
Boolbarman joke
[Bool] Did you go to Glastonbury?

[Nik] Owch! OK, try this one.

A Polar bear goes into a bar and says "I'll have a gin and





tonic please."

The barman replies "So, why the big pause?"
Glasto nogo
[BtD] Only by the power of TV. [Joke] Ouch!
In furc a penny, in furc a pound
I'm wondering whether it might be possible to get an Arts Council grant to fund the Furcation Game...
Kneecapping
I got my first 'daq million too... Quite a shock...

Two crocodiles go into a bar and ask for some drinks...
"Certainly sirs," says the barman "but why the long faces?"

[rab] My recent stag night was in Dublin and involved a trip to the Guinness storehouse - did you take your free pint in the Gravity Bar up top? What a view!
[all] And talking of matters marital, a whole bunch of photos from my nuptials are now here - the discerning among you may even spot a Projoy or two in the throng.
Celebdaq - Henman
I've never seen a share jump like his before in such a short span... I bought him at £3.66/share this morning, he's at £4.02/share as of right now, up 24p this hour....
None
[BtD] Yikes!
Bad jokes
I top all of you with:

A man walked into a bar and said "OUCH!"
Oh yeah?
Picking up the gauntlet with

An Englishman, an Irishman and a Scotsman walk into a bar.

The barman says "is this some kind of a joke?"
Oh yeah!
René Descartes is at the bar and the barkeep asks him "Have one for the road?" René replied, "I think not", and *poof*! He disappeared.
Neigh neigh and thrice neigh
A horse goes into a bar,

The barman says "so, why the long face?"
None
An elephant, a giraffe, and a hedgehog walk into a bar, and the barman says, "I can't wait to hear the punchline!"
Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzt My self.
Ho ho.
Only just read blamelewis posting - sorry - same joke different animal. BTW - nice table top camera pics. As I have no idea what Projoy looks like - had great fun guessing.

Regaining composure...
A man goes to see a doctor with a little bit of lettuce sticking out of his bottom.
After the examination he asks "Is it serious?"
"I'm afraid so" replies the doctor, "it's only the tip of the iceburg."
*groan*
A gorgeous blonde walked into a bar and said "I'd like a Double Entendre, please," so I gave her one.
Getting worse...
A man goes to see his doctor, and explains that his back hurts. The doctor says "Say 'Ahhh'". "Why?" says the man. "My dog's just died," he replies.
Anything and everything.

[Boolbar] Thanks for the info. (way up there somewhere)

[blamelewis] Congratulations on your marriage; all the best to yourself and your new bride. Should I survive until October it's 33 years for me. . . ☺

[Re: 'Daq} Grumble, grumble. 750,000 nicker down the drain. I am singularly unimpressed! Anyone got a spare shoulder? As far as the 'jokes' are concerned - I thought mine were bad. ☺ I cannot match you lot, so I shall not try.
A Joke. Probably.
Q: What's brown and sticky?
A: A stick.
Yay!
[Dunx] That's my favourite joke in the world. Closely followed by
Q: What do you call a fly with no legs?
A: A walk!
walk - don't walk
Lib.. I don't know how to break this to you. A fly with no wings is called a Walk. A fly with no wings and no legs is called a Sit. Please tell me where you'll be practising medicine so I can be sure never to fall ill there. ;o)
Save string when you're young!
When you grow up, you'll have a ball!
a sit
A male fly walks into a bar, goes up to an attractive female fly and says "Is this stool taken?"
bar chuckles
A skeleton walks up to a bar and orders a pint . . . and a mop.
doctor lib
I believe the joke you meant to put there was
What do you call a spider with no legs?
a raisin!
diversifying
I was in a Chinese restaurant and I said "Waiter! This fish is rubbery!", and the waiter went "Ah, thank you velly much sir"
Body parts.....
[pen] You've found my weak point. I do get confused with body parts! And this is rather worrying to the general public at large. Its a bit of a shame that there's no the 'ask the audience' moment at graduation ceremonies that there is at church weddings. I can just see the moment now, about to recieve my degree certificate and someone pipes up from the audience "No, don't let her be a doctor, she doesn't know the difference between legs and wings, and once she forgot what the heart was called (and refered to it as the big muscle that pumps blood round the body!)". Then they'd refuse to give me the certificate and I'd be pubically humiliated! Stockport (Stepping hill hosptial) is the place to avoid!
practising medicine
[Lib] Stockport? No problem. I'm well away from there. Once you've got some practice in, I daresay you'll be very good, but thankfully I'm feeling very well at the moment, living here in the south east! And as for your nightmare scenario... several years after I graduated I had a nightmare in which I found out I hadn't actually graduated at all - I failed the maths module because the lecturer had lost my coursework. *shudders*
pubic humiliation
[Lib] I'm not going to ask.

A woman wakes up with a terrible hangover and finds herself sharing her bed with an elephant. "God I must have been tight last night!" she exclaims. "Yes," says the elephant, "at least the first couple of times."

Luckily I can't be bothered to type out the hamster joke.

A man goes into a bar and sees...
...a dog playing chess with its owner. So he says, "What a remarkably intelligent dog!", and the owner replies, "Not really, he's lost the first two games."
Another bar?
A West Virginian man walked into a bar....an' it et him to bits!
Explanation upon request.
None
A man walks into a bar and sits down next to a cheetah.

He was trying to pull a fast one.
None
And never forget the last words of my grandfather, who said "A truck!"
None
Well, my great uncle died of deafness...

...he didn't hear the steamroller.

font memories
Four fonts walk into a bar.

The barman says "we don't want your type in here."
Font of all knowledge
[BtD] Presumably the publican didn't like the look of their face?
None
[BtD] You're a Tim Vine fan, aren't you?

I said to the newsagent, "I'd like to read a magazine on the supernatural, please."
Newsagent: Fortean Times?
Me: No, just once.

Tim who?
[MF] In all honesty - I don't know who Tim Vine is - but if you think he'd make me laugh...

A dyslexic man walks into a bra...
Another One
Q: what do you call a communist volleyball player?
A: a red setter.

[Lib] That one just sticks in my mind.

[BtD]
Tim Vine writes a lot of this kind of one-liner. Most of the gags on this page are by him, esp. the ones lower down. He's a regular on ITV's The Sketch Show, which is starting next week I think. He's also on tour this year.
None
I was in the video shop, and I said, "I'd like an action movie please." The assistant went, "D'you want to rent Batman Forever?" I said, "no, just for a couple of hours."
Reeeeeally bad.
A man walked into a bar...gain antique shop and said "What's new?"
DrQu+xum/Lib
ok, I'll bite.. what's the west virginian one about? Oh, and Lib, I must insist that you type the hamster one..
West Virginian
[snorgle] Here's another joke as a hint.

Q: Why does a West Virginian Nativity Scene have the Three Wise Men in total fireman's gear?
A: Because it says in the Bible that they came from a'far.

(If all else fails, think Huckleberry Hound.)
Virginity
[Dr Q] Who? Was s/he Tom Sawyer's companion? ☺
Accents
[Dr] Ah... I've just worked it out... Yes, second one was a big hint!
Hamster
[snorgle] I believe it is matt who has the hamster joke.
huckleberry hound
ah, thank you, i will now talk in a terrible accent the rest of the day in your honour..
Poo
Two men walked into a bar dragging 20 foot long turds behind them.
The barman looks at them and asks "Why the long faeces?"
. . . and also . . .
William Shakespeare walks into a bar. The barman says "Get out! You're bard"
groan
Sorry to interrupt the punfest, but I was wondering if the assorted Big Brother afficionados here had any opinion on the new girl, Lisa. I have a very strong hunch she might be a plant...
Lisa
That'll be the trail of pollen that she leaves wherever she goes...
the hamster joke
[snorgle] OK, but I promise you it wasn't worth the wait.

A man goes into a pet shop and buys a hamster -- but by the time he gets home, it's dead. Outraged, he returns to the shop.

"You're quite right," says the shopkeeper, "that's completely unacceptable. I'll be happy to give you a new one but we're out of stock until Monday. Come back then." The man looks so thoroughly downhearted that the shopkeeper decides to do him a favour. "Look, I know it sounds strange but here's a trick to cheer yourself up. Take your late hamster home, put him in the blender, then take the resulting puree and spread it on your garden."

"Do what?" says the horrified customer.

"Puree the hamster, spread it on your garden. Honestly. Next morning you won't believe your eyes: the whole garden will be a carpet of flowers as far as the eye can see, so beautiful that you'll feel much better."

The man is doubtful, but he goes home and does what the shopkeeper said. Lo and behold, next morning his garden is blooming with daffodils as far as the eye can see, and all day he has a spring in his step!

Come Monday, he's back to the shop to pick up his new pet and he says to the proprietor "You know, I had my doubts about what you said, but it worked, it was amazing! Daffodils as far as the eye could see!"

"Daffodils?" comes the reply. "Daffodils? You usually get tulips from hamster jam!"

Phew!
[matt] I'm glad it wasn't the one involving sellotape.
Double Phew!
Or the one involving the S&M club.
Likewise!
Well done, matt. I have to say it's essentially the same joke as the one I know, but it's only about a quarter of the length, so it's a good job they asked you rather than me!
nerves
I know we've declared a bit of a moratorium on this kind of thing but COME ON TIM!!
hamster joke
thank you! does anyone know if there is a real punchline to that chain letter joke about the old lady and the pet food?
Big Bore
rab]Lisa is on a very sticky wicket as she has to make an immediate impression with the public and the housemates. She has certainly rattled their cages and under Cameroon's skin, and she will almost certainly be up for eviction next week, hopefully up against Cammeroon. If that were the case he should go, to build the tension further between the remaining players. But nothing really can rescue this series.
None
A linguistics professor was lecturing to his class one day.
"In English" he said, "a double negative forms a positive. In some languages, such as Russian, a double negative is still a negative. However, there is no language wherein a double positive can form a negative."

A voice from the back of the room piped up, "Yeah, right."
Doesn't really work in written form, but...
What's big and steaming and comes out of cows backwards?

The Isle of Wight ferry

(cows/Cowes, you see)

A bit like
How to you get two whales in a mini?

Down the M4.

Works better written than spoken
What do you call a bear with no ears.

A b.
None
[Inkspot] If I can divert the subject from bad jokes for a minute, what makes a series of Big Brother good or bad? What is a "good" contestant (from the point of view of the people who watch it, rather than the producers)? On what grounds do people vote for someone to be evicted? In other words, how does the whole thing work?
How do you make a dead baby float?
One scoop of ice cream, two scoops of dead baby.
Raak re Big Brother
Good contestants are those who cause conflict in the house, or stimulate responses in the other housemates. The problem with this series is that everyone gets on with each other too well, and there isn't any conflict, whereas last year, the final four contestants could hardly stand the sight of each other by the end. (Except Kate and Jonny.) And they still had to put on a show of liking each other as they wanted to win the prize, which made it all the more interesting. But it's impossible to guarantee conflict in the house. No-one would have guessed Alex would start sounding off about cleanliness the way he did, or that Jade would start backstabbing everyone. Conversely, they put Scott, Jon, Justine and Cameron together as they're all team leaders, and leaders normally make themselves unpopular - but none of them even tried to lead, except Jon, who's now gone. In fact, since he and Fed left, I've hardly watched the show at all.
That'll be it
The last two years (didn't watch series 1 from the outset, thinking it all a waste of time... my opinion hasn't necessarily changed, although my avidness has) there was a ruckus from pretty much the outset. For example last year Alex got upset at someone nicking a sausage that he quite fancied; the year before Penny was so barking she immediately managed to get peoples' backs up. Also, last year they had several gimmicks to spice things up: the rich-poor divide coupled with extremely arbitrary ways of deciding who would be on which side (e.g. scoring baskets). However these proved unnecessary as the contestants themselves provided enough agro to go round. I feel that this year's contestants with last year's set-up, or vice versa, might have been more fun to watch. The thing is, I think the format has now passed its peak: quite simply, people have wised up to how to play the game. You can reach the final stage by just not being nominated by your housemates which just means keeping your head down and not antagonising anyone. Of course, the housemates could wise up and start nominating the boring people rather than the antagonistic ones. But this would only work if everyone did it, so probably wouldn't be considered an optimal strategy from a game-theoretic point-of-view. Err, that's rather a lot isn't it. I note that the covers have come off at Wimbledon so maybe we'll see some tennis today after all.
you decide
I agree that it is the tension and flare ups that make BB worth watching and the indicator of peoples interest in the Friday 'exit' poll. A low count is not good for the producers as they get a large slice of the cost of the call, there is now the prospect of a low turn out for the rest of the series and a lack lustre last week. The cause for me is the voting system, they need to change the rules so that anyone that is nominated is up for eviction, and let the public really decide who goes.
Any formal warning to one housemate should be passed on with all housemates being penalised (bring back the cold outside shower!), they could take a leaf or two from BBAfrica with a single basic bedroom for all 12.
still childishly amused by John Lloyd's punditry . .
Just heard "Henman needs to thrust himself in the face of Grosjean and say .... 'Beat Me!'
Henman
Obviously his advice wasn't heeded. Henman's out [quelle surprise!].
Yes
I thought he would be. The match followed almost exactly the same pattern - in terms of points scored and rain breaks - as that which ended similarly against Ivanisevic in 2001.
Ooof!
I just got some new specs and it now feels funny with them on and even funnier with them off. I'm sure I'll get used to it and stop walking into things soon.
Raak's 2nd question
The public vote off housemates depending on (a) what Graham Norton tells them to do*; (b) what Chris Moyles tells them to do*; (c) how weighted the highlights are against them that week**; (d) how many column inches they've generated in Heat magazine***; (e) whether betting syndicates are rigging the voting****; (f) if they are female*****; (g)whether we actually like them******.

Spencer v. Alex; Adele v. Jade
**Cameron v. Jon & Fed
***Justine, Sissy & Gos this week
****Alison; Adele v. Jade; Anouska
*****Everyone except Kate
******Negligible

celebdaq
i am number 1 again! yay! if Tim doesn't pay out a massive divvy this week, there is no God..
BB personalities
Interesting to observe how the 'evictees', who are instantly launched into excessive T.V. [RI:SE/BBLB/GoodMorning, etc] exposure the minute they set foot outside the house, appear to gain a 'personality'. Anouska, in particular, is far more articulate than we were allowed to see in that first week; Jon & Fed have become a credible double act; even Tania, dare I say, has become more watchable.

[snorgle] Celebdaq - I appear to be right behind you, lord knows how, because I am still in the dark about how the 'timing' works, ie. retrospective? For instance, as the share price is falling rapidly, would it be wise to sell Henman shares?

Bum
I've not been paying attention and have fallen dramatically. Anyone got any tips - JKR and Tim were the obvious ones, but I can't think of any big events looming.
The "Beatles", m'lud, are a shuffle beat combo popular among modern young people...
I have to say, not only have I not watched Big Bugger, but I have successfully avoided ever seeing any of the contestants either during or after their incarceration. I don't know any of their names or what any of them looks like. Admittedly this feat has required not watching any TV whatsoever for some months - other than Sky News - but I think that's a price well worth paying. What is RI:SE, and why is it spelt that way?
RI:SE and SH:INE
[Breadmaster] I think it's so it looks like a digital clockface, that being one of the first things us young turks look at when waking up in the morning. You can achieve much the same effect on your grandfather clock with some cunning stickers obtainable from the Innovations catalogue (rip).
And another thing
[Breadmaster] To answer your first question, it's a Channel 4 "breakfast" show. Kinda likea TV version of the Radio 1 breakfast "show" I guess. Which leads naturally onto the question: why are radio programmes often referred to as "shows" when there's nothing to see?
None
Yeah. Either that or they use the word 'Slot' - as in the breakfast slot or the teatime slot. An ugly word, in my opinion, that has some curious definitions, not least, 'a crosspiece', 'the hollow down the middle of the breasts' [!] and 'a deer's footprints'
Celebdaq
[rab] Well, I for one am pinning hopes on new films... so I've gone for Drew Barrymore and Cameron Diaz (Charlie's Angels: Full Throttle) and Arnie (T3: Rise of the Machines).
Slottage
[Chalky] I expect to giggle schoolboyishly whenever I hear phrases like "lunchtime slot" from now on. I do so like it when my life is enriched in this way - many thanks!
Celebdaq
My faith in Royalty has been shattered - bloody Prince Willi divi'd £0.00 this week, the little sod.
A-hem
[Blob] Just a gentle reminder: Lock Cup
celebdaq
Beats me, I just buy shares in people who are likely to be in the news the next week, and the shares usually go up. Not a great divvy for Tim, but at least I made a profit. I think I'll stick to tennis for now..
the end of the world
No Big Brother ... no eviction ... no Davina ...
I know
[Bb] I received a txtmsg from my nose-to-the-ground contact whilst in the pub. What's going on??
NO PANTS!
It appears that PantsMC is down. Feh.
Bare bummed also.
Well, good Dr., at least that confirms that I'm not excluded from the site because of my postings (although that situation would be quite understandable ☺)
Reliability
Hm. Has anyone had trouble accessing mc5 in the last week? A couple of times I've found myself unable to get outside the house from my laptop (which is 802.11b wireless connected to the net), wandered over to beefy(.angrycake.net, the server mc5 resides on) to find it all well, and then returned to the laptop to find it working again. DNS resolution has stopped more times than I'm comfortable with, too.

Even a single lack of response from the server would be of interest to me - I want to try and determine if it's the DSL or the wireless that's at fault, although I'm currently pointing several accusatory fingers at the wireless equipment, it seeming less reliable than the 'not very reliable' it once aspired to. The lack of complaints here and at MCiOS are good signs, I hope.

On another note, BBC story about the delayed eviction. I dislike BB - and the whole 'reality TV' genre it spawned - intensely but, worryingly, often find it's the most watchable thing on either Sky Digital or terrestrial from late evening through the wee hours.

Nik's, err, problem

I pop in once or twice during my day - which is somewhat different from your own - but have had no problems, Nik.
nik's reliability
Occasionally at work I've had to reload a page but I thought that was down to my work computer. It acts up sometimes..
Nikerrors
Working from home I access the site two or three times a day. Since moving to angrycake this site has been 100% reliable.
No worries
[Nik] I've noticed very little trouble. Occasionally there are brief periods where I don't get an http response within less than about a second - but to be fair I get that with Google or the BBC so it's nothing out of the ordinary. ssh logins have been fine.
two things
[Nik] I've not had any trouble, even using my Mum's steam powered connection, or the hosptial with the huge firewall.

[Bad jokes] I know we'd managed to escape the bad jokes (and I'll try to get it right this time) but I heard this one yesterday and am still chuckling....

Q: Why is the devil not allowed into the Post Office?

A: Beacuse he takes many forms.

Way out West
A three legged dog walks into a bar.

He goes up to the barman and says "I'm lookin' for the guy who shot my paw."
None
Must be the wireless, then. And I've got a car to make remotely roadworthy this month as well. Fiddlesticks.
Remoteness
[Nik] Make sure you use the FM band, and preferably PCM for the control signals. Best of luck on constructing a suitable speed controller!
Celebdaq
I'm having a bit of a 'mare...
Hmmm
I haven't been paying much attention to the 'daq recently, for reasons which should be fairly clear. Really stuck as to who the current long term bankers might be...
daqsodding
I picked the wrong Williams sister this week... way down, dropping like a stone, all is lost, we're all doomed :o(
I be back
Arnie goes up, then Arnie goes down. Looks like that 'Bouncy' singer is the in thing.
Hasta la vista
[Boolbar] Hmmm... Guess who had heavily invested in Arnie...
Me me me
[Uncle K] Me. But I did so last week, so he hasn't fallen below my purchase price . . . yet.
more shares please
With my two accounts I'm still trying different strategies, mtp so far since Friday has bought and sold Henman/Sernena Williams/Arnie/ and now Beyonce. I have been lucky to time it just right in selling all/buying just after 9am. It was very noticable that as soon as Beyonce began to rise Arnie fell of the edge. The rule changes were meant to encourage day-to-day trading and divis greatly reduced payout now to be the square root of any payout so for most celebs it will be zilch, last weeks the results were so poor they have not been posted.
The other slow moving acc. has a clutch of celebs, I hope one of which will rise but with a static market and a prospect of very little divi's it is likely to continue to slide.
Eh?
[Inkspot] Rule changes ? What rule changes ?
Staggered
I am absolutely staggered that someone's been attempting to read the furcation game via a mobile phone WAP connection. Maybe the next challenge would be to do the next move as a series of SMS texts.
I'm being watched!
I admit, it was me. WAP is free and internet is not. On my phone The furc game is 95 pages long (the average length for this page is about 25 pages, which is long enough to scroll trhough). I only got to page one, as was wondering how long it was. Stop spying on me rab! (Do you know where I live? and more worringly can you get my mobie number from your source? Hope not!)
Txting
[rab] SMS Crescent has a certain appeal.

[Lib] I wouldn't worry - one of the pieces of information recorded in the server logs is the user agent being used to browse a particular page, and that will be where rab got his info. The only other identifying information is your IP address, and for a WAP device that's far more likely to be the address of a gateway machine somewhere rather than something which would identify your phone.

clarity!
[dunx] Thanks, I can relax now!
rude cages
Boolbar]A few days ago daq towers changed the rules following several weeks of strange results which started with Get Me Out of Here and continued through to Beckham, they announced them on 30 June with a brief statement to share holders, at the same time the revised dividends were posted. During the past few weeks celebs like Prince William and Beckham were paying out substatial divis that distorted the market leading to huge rises, but to my mind those were extraordinary circumstances.
Spying
[Lib] What Dunx said. FYI the clue was the text 'Google WAP Proxy/1.0' in the logfile. I look at the log now and again partly cos I'm curious to find out how often the site is accessed (as opposed to how often a move is made, which is recorded in the game files), what browsers people use, which search engines pass through and how often, and occasionally to check that no-one's trying to break in.

Mind you, if you want me to spy on you, just leave you mobile number and I'll see what I can do :)

increased roots
Another statement and changes to dividends, due to uproar from the crowd, daq towers have amended the payout to slightly reward those that hold on to shares rather than playing the day-to-day by increasing the amount of payout per share, but this will still be cut be sqare rooted. There's hope for my BB swag bag yet.
Is that the time? best shut down and go home for tea.
stalking
[rab] My phone number is 0898 69 69 69. Feel free to stalk me!
Husk
[Lib] You have an unexpectedly husky voice.
Always wondered
What is on the other end of 0898 696969 ? I've seen it many times used as a spoof phone number.
Wonder no more!
Just dial it and see :) It'll only cost £4.95 per minute.
None
[matt] That's why I'm still wondering.
Daq and darn
Bugger! Losing money fast...
more hot tea
Sometime between 8 and 9 in the morning seems to be the 'opening' time for dealing. Today I waited till 8.30 while the cuppa was cooling down at my desk, Sven was starting to drop and Arnie was twitching with a rise of 6p, it was time to sell all and buy the big guy. Since 8.30 the value of 13860 shares has risen from £123,449 to £132,098, but all this selling will give a low divi payout on Friday. On the weekend I may have to cash in the shares before I go to bed as the big movers do very little between midnight and 9.am but the price may have crashed by the time I get round to trading mid morning.

Vote either Steph or Cameroon but keep in Lisa, her disruption to the house has got to continue.

BB4
[Inkspot] But aren't all the other HMs just ignoring her?
evictions
Yes they are ignoring her, Nush and Scott have paired so are Steph and Cameroon with Ray being pal to everyone. The basis being to break up S&C, if Cam goes how will Steph cope. But I think bringing in an outsider late in the game is always awkward for that person. Tim was lucky last year as Alex was shunned by half the house, and it was earlier in the game but he was never fully accepted. Guests like Gae are allowed as non threatening.
0898
Boolbar] That reminds me of a story I heard about a sexline entitled "Hear me moan". A man tried to take the proprietors to court after he rang it and got a recording of a woman complaining about the lack of help she was getting with the housework. Trading Standards refused to prosecute saying that the man the man "got what he deserved".
Lock Cup
Played
bad joke
There's a mummy mole, a daddy mole, and a baby mole, all living in a mole hole. One day, daddy mole sticks out his head, and says "MMM! I can smell Maple syrup!" So mummy mole squeezes by him and sniffs, smiles and says "Oh! I can smell honey!" Poor little baby mole can't squeeze through, but gamely tries, sniffs and complains "Aww! All I can smell is MOLASSES!"
Celebdaq aside...
...why is Sean Connery not listed?
Lock Cup
I think we need the referee over at rab v. Blob fairly urgently.
ImpostCeleb
Because I'm still quite new and rather pathetically unknowledgeable . . . apart from the obvious, who is who - in our League??? [What I'm really saying is much respect to 'moreteaplease' who has not only managed to amass a whole series of important looking green boxes and a red one, but has held me off the top spot for a few days now - during a period of time where I've suckseeded in buying and selling at JUST the optimum momento.]
Imposing
moreteaplease = InkSpot 2; ffish = GrahamIII 2 (G6?); evil_edna = penelope; sigmundfreud = gil; RadiantAndBeautiful = me (obviously).
None
Sorry, there's obviously only one GrahamIII (or is that three?).
Expose-a-daq
Cheers rab.
tip top tea
What a way to finish the week of exhausting of trading, Chalky it will be over to you next week as such large 7 day gains are almost impossible to maintain, and because of the day2day trading I had no divis.
However the Inkspot account with its spread of BB housemates came up trumps, all the divis have gone into Mrs Beckham ...so make way coming through.
None
[Chalky] Great word in the cheddars, btw. Have tidied up the accent so we can all enjoy its full splendour.
Bad tempered imposters
Did we ever sort out exactly who was whom in B.T.I.?
None
Whats it to you, puffin-head?
Lockage
[Blob] May I volunteer?

[rab] Could you put a link to the Lock Cup pages on here so it's easier to get there from here?

Blockage
[Blob] Forget that - obviously JLE did the honours.
Downtime
Tsk. Server was down for ~two minutes just now. Sorry about that. I had to unplug the power strips as I was moving furniture that I'd trailed the cables through. Bah.
Downtime
Spiked by paranoia (no-one posting since just before my announcement) I'm posting from elsewhere on teh intarnet to verify to myself mc5 is actually visible. Nothing to see here, move along, move along.
The full monty: 02:44 Sun 13 Jul 2003
You're fine, Nik.
None
Not now, though. The disk on the DNS/Mailbox just died. Thankfully, it's mostly only mail that's affected, and I got it back long enough to copy everything not broken off. Hopefully I can figure this out...
Stuff
[Dunx] I'll try and do that before going on holiday, which is tomorrow... so if anyone else has any burning issues regarding this site, let me know by about lunchtime. Ta
Um
Actually, no I can't. Presumably due to the difficulties noted by Nik above I can't access the server at the moment except via these web pages.
None
Mm, sorry about that. sshd won't come back up on that box. It's unconnected to the mail box strife, except that both stem from having to power down on saturday. That'll learn me.
Dokies
[Nik] Right you are

Meanwhile, has anyone ever been anything other than 'cordially' invited to something?

Cordiality
[rab] What, like "reluctantly" invited, or "resentfully" invited?
come as you are
Hmm... I may have had an invitation with menaces before now, but it's not something I'd like to go into detail about
Guilty M'lud
I have been 'invited' to court to appear as a witness.
"You're crap, basically."
I remember being 'invited' to leave Geography at the end of my fourth year at senior school on the grounds of ability...
Downtime
I didn't do it</bart>
Bobs Pot review
Saskia and I have just finished reading 'The Order of the Phoenix'. We read it out loud, taking it in turns to read alternate chapters. We lead a fairly isolated life and have been fairly well distanced from the hype that accompanied the launch - I heard a little about it on the radio and chose not to read too much about it on the Internet. My expectations were not high as I feel that JKR has set herself a near impossible task - that of creating a series of books aimed at a gradually increasing age group - set against the biggest hype ever to accompany a children’s publication.

We were very pleasantly suprised. The book was virtually unputdownable. It is funnier and more sophisticated than the last one and because it builds successfully on the background of the previous books, it left us gagging for more. I am now aware that most reviews have given it 4 out of 5. Possibly because we read the book together and aloud (it works very well like this) or because we missed the hype I’d give it 5/5 and more if I could. OK, so it is not Tolkien or Pullman but it is vintage JKR and a thoroughly great read.
potter/daq
Well that was a conversation stopper! I enjoyed it too, although I felt the end was a little anti-climactic.. that tends to be how the books are though, as it has to end again at the next summer hols. Anyone else confused with celebdaq? They keep changing the rules, although I'm not doing too badly at the moment.
If it works, don't fix it.
[snorgle] My tactic of ignoring celebdaq for a couple of weeks seems to be doing very nicely. Only evil_edna seems to be doing better.
ignoramus spondoolio!
[Boolbar] I ignore it too - I've been trading only once a week or so. I'll admit I picked the wrong Williams sister to win Wimbledon tho, and I've steered clear of the whole BB celeb thing too.*cackle*
Just passing through
I'm afraid I'm going to hijack the chat games for a moment, just in case I've missed anyone out
<fanfare>: The first (well, first properly organised) MC trip to the Proms takes place this coming Sunday. Feel free to just pitch up and find us, or get in touch (details at other end of link) to make more concrete plans. Thank you. We now return you to your usual programming.</shameless cross-posting>
Jesus in a box
Which pretty much describes the roadside sights in Malta. The roads themselves are very bumpy, although should you wish to visit Hasan's Cave -- a little tunnel that takes you out to a viewing window over the sea, and marked only by a crone pruning the trees and hiring out torches for 30c apiece -- you will find it well signposted from across the island. If, however, you seek, say, Valletta (the capital) then navigation can be somewhat more tricky. A lovely break though: I really didn't think I'd enjoy the heat and the Scally Airways' last minute deal dodah, but it was fab.

[Watty] On account of the above I've ended up spending a shedload of money and am not sure if I'll be able to make the prom after all. I'll email you when I've reached a decision. Hope this doesn't blow things out of the water.

Celebdaq
*** ALERT FOR INKSPOT ***

In a fit of madness, I have decided to 'field a second XI' in the financial shenannigans that is Celebdaq. If convenient, please arrange for DORIS_NEWBOLD (User ID: 3376674) to be inserted forcibly into the league. Let's face it - she can't do much worse than UNCLE_KORKY...

Oh dear
Just looked at my portfolio.
League
[rab] Forget your position - you're still phenomenally richer than I am!
Position
Despite being about the only person in the country left who gives a sh!t, I nevertheless feel the need to share my thoughts about the likely BB4 victor (which may have some bearing on the daq at the end of the week).
  • Steff is most easily dispensed with, both in terms of this discussion and the competition. She's very pleasant is Steff, but wet as a fish and unlikely to appear on the front cover of FHM so won't attract the lad vote like Kee-at did last year.
  • Scott, on paper, is similar. Although my ability to judge the attractiveness of other men is legendarily bad, I can't believe he's that much of a pin-up. He seems to be the housemate's favourite: I believe he was up for eviction only once, and right at the start. Nearly all the evictees have remarked that he's like a 'best mate' in the house. However this kind of thing rarely goes down well with the viewing public (Dean? Liz?). Except the dull one did win BB1 so I guess there's some possibility he might make it.
  • Ray has probably the strongest personality, but is therefore likely to be the kind of person you either love or hate. This lack of all-round appeal may count against him, and is mostly down to his fiery temperament. On the other hand, I would guess he'll get the chick vote on account of being Irish, tall, probably the best looking one of the lot and because he's a bit of a lad.
  • Cameron has, without a doubt, played the best game in the house and on these grounds deserves to win. Although clearly unpopular with the housemates (he's been up for nomination almost every week) and sections of the public (who either get offended by him being a Christian, or being a Christian and not "behaving like one") he's survived the public vote several times so it would seem like the public don't dislike him. I would quite like to see a bible-reading, near-teetotaller to win BB since it's almost the complete opposite of the kind of person you'd expect to win. On the other hand, people who've survived many public votes in the past (Paul, Jade) didn't go on to win, so the form's not good.
So, in short, I reckon Cameron or Ray are most likely to win, whilst Scott has a gnat's chance. I imagine Cameron and Jon will attract continuing media coverage once the thing's all over. Since the latter has been delisted on the daq, it's not rocket science to work out where my investment has gone...
celebdaq
Sounds complicated to me. I've got loads of Nush, who I intend to sell once I collect my divvies, and sink into Arnie, probably.
BBdaq
1. Steph - no chance.
2. Scott - the invisible man; in with a great chance.
3. Ray - Psycho IV; too unpopular outside the house to win.
4. Cameron - Likely to just have the edge over Scott.

I too have sunk loads into Nush, Cameron, Ray and Scott, and aim to sell high fairly soon. Nice to see my investment in Arnie from a few weeks ago is now reaping dividends.

Anyone seen Inkspot lately?

hello clouds
*amble ... stroll ... custard cream* eh wha'? oh yea
None
Ah, there you are! Good to see you again!
None
And thanks for sorting out Doris!
Danke
[rab] Thanks for adding the Lock Cup link.
Bitte
[Dunx] Thanks for allowing me to steal and downsize your graphic :)
None
Thank you very much for the Aintree Iron
any old iron
[Boolbar] So that's where it went. Thanks for letting me know.
Top CelebCat
Well slap my jammy badger! I'm top!
None
*Doffs hat in awe*
Hmph
And I seem to be fondling the bottom, which is normally a good position to be in but not, I think, here.
None
rab] It depends who’s bottom.
None
[Btd] Or, indeed, whose bottom!
None
Uncle Korky] Or, indeed, Titania.
... And todays rant is......
I've just found out that they're taking my crosswords away. Who? (I hear you ask), the evil people at Guardian.co.uk. I'm trying to learn how to do cryptic crosswords, and quite frankly I'm not very good, so I only have a fighting chance on their 'easy' crossword (called the Quiptric, which is weekly and website only). The online Guardian crosswords (all of them, about 15 per week) are becoming a 'pay-for' service in 5 days time. I don't want to/won't pay £25 to access about 15 quiptrics per year (as i don't have patience or time to attempt it each week). So I've complained and am hoping that they will decide that they don't want to take my crosswords away after all.
Celebdaq
I've rather lost interest in Celebdaq. Gets a bit boring after a while - the kneecapping is crap and the dividends are stupidly high. I've left my portfolio unaltered for two weeks and can't find any enthusiasm to modify it. Don't know if that means I'll just bob about or if I'll be thrown off for apathy. And I'm afraid I don't care either way.
Come back!!
*wails*B--L--O--OO--OOO---OOOO-O-B!!! Don't run off just because the game is too easy!
None
[Lib] Well if they do - perhaps we could have a cryptic crossword game on this site - I'd be more than happy to contribute clues. Here are a few nice easy ones to be going on with :
Paying guest loses a fringe (6)
Vermin back in best Armenian families (4)
Mates in turmoil giving off vapour (5)
Tune on the radio ? (3)
WHERE THE EXECUTIONER'S AXE FALLS ? (5,7)
Food comes back as American time period (7)
Born in Little Rock, Arkansas - grew up in Colorado ! (7)
Darn fire is rubbish - more heat than light ! (5-3)

Hope that keeps you going for a while.

Easy game
[pen] Which game ?
None
[Blob] Well, I've got most of those. I didn't get the fifth yet, although it did make me think of
EXECUTION? (7,10)
which may contain the same seven-letter word as yours.
Crypticism
[Blob] We haven't had a cryptic game for a while, and I think some of the slow-burners here could be put to the rest for a moment (I'm thinking of Mrs Trellis and the Centurion for example). I would remark that crossword clues are more fun if (a) they're part of a puzzle with a grid (b) they are complete clues (with both the definition and the device) and (c) they're not all bl**dy tube stations.

[CdM] I got the fifth, but am not sure it's entirely sound unless someone can explain it to me. I haven't got 1,6 or 7 yet.

clues
[CdM] Well I did say they were easy - would yours be (Hidden text) by any chance ?
Perplexed
Well, that rules me out of the cryptic game - I can't get any of them.
Relax
[UK] I'm sure you can. Start off with say, 3 & 8 - they are obvious anagrams. I can't get 7. For what it's worth, I'd love to see a cryptic game in here.
None
I like number 5. :o)
None
Well, as I remarked at Dan's place not so long ago, I think that cryptic clue games have been all too frequent -- one every couple of years or so would be enough for me. Just a personal view. One possibility that might be good would be to move away from tube stations and find some other theme -- players' names?
None
[Blob] Thanks for the clues. Working on them, (could take a while!).

[cryptic game] There hasn't been one since I've been around (but know that's really not that long), not sure how it would work, or if I'd be any good at it, but Bring It On!!!!

celebdaq/cryptic crosswords
I'm still enjoying it for the time being. And I, too, am crap at cryptic crosswords. I got a book on how to work them out, but just couldn't be arsed. They just make me want to scream

WHY WHY OH WHY!!!

In a word
[snorgle] relaxation [CdM] I would argue no theme. Why must there be a Greg Rude-eskying theme? We've never had a general crytic clues game, as far as I'm aware.
Griddle
I wonder if there is any way to post a grid to use? The actual grids are pretty standardised, so drawing them up might not be too hard.
[Lib] I'm disappointed by The Guardian's move too, but not surprised - most of the other newspaper web sites charge for the actual news, which the Grauniad has refrained from doing. And The Times has been charging for its crosswords for years now (and, IIRC, rather more than 25 quid a year).
Amazed
Not only did I get the BB winner right, I got the exit order spot-on too. Not managed this before... I've got lots of shares in the winner, but that's not necessarily the one who gets most press coverage. Anyway, we can shut up about it now, and those who don't care can re-enter the discussion.
Fish trader
rab]of the remainig housemates I am pleased that Cameroon won as he is so unlike any other winner and tomorrow will be a bad day for the bookies who had backed Ray and Scott. No doubt there will be post mortems. I disagree with those in the Sun and the Beeb who say the series only saviour is sex to spice things up, and the public overwhelmingly voted for Cameron 'no sex before marriage'. I would like to see the telephone vote inceased to the top four nominations up for eviction to give the public a wider choice, and for the BB warnings to have an effect on the whole group.
The Celebdaq has gone through a couple of very strange weeks and it has been hard to keep the interest up whilst the rules changed. Hopefully we are over the worst and the game will improve again. Speaking of which this weeks table welcomes Doris_Newbold and the waves a sad to ISayPorter, and if Chalky or evil_edna think I'm going to let them antwhere near the No 1 post, all I can say is ... pah
trading plaices
[Inkspot] Aha! You have reckoned without my cunning plan. Seriously though, I haven't a clue what has occurred regarding rule changes over the last couple of weeks. I enjoyed the scramble to the top to achieve a knee-capping and a green boxy thing, and I am currently attempting to do it again, although there doesn't seem to be much in the way of ruthless and opportunist trading options. By the way, the MCLeague table attached to my portfolio tells a somewhat different story to yours. As the administrator, do you have insider information? teehee
More BB4
Cameron was no surprise at all - the bookies had him at 1/9 to win for most of the week. He was the biggest favourite the 4 series have ever had. I think the main reason was, like last year, the two good-looking young men in the house split the 14-year-old girly vote, leaving the outsider with a fighting chance. They also have entirely contrasting personalities, just like Alex and Jonny. I too disagree that only sex can spice things up. Au contraire - only arguments can. The producers tried too hard for a sexy bunch this year, with the result that the only good task was painting the horse costumes, so we could watch it dry.
Last year, Graham Norton commented: "The public have played a great game this yeat, as they've kept all the interesting people in." Did the public collectively think "Right, we'll do the exact opposite this time for a laugh" or something? If it were up to me, I'd have knocked off Cameron in Week 1. And left in Anouska, Fed, Sissy and Justine for Week 9. If Lisa were in at the start, things would've been different too. And I was secretly hoping that last night, BB might say "As a final surprise for the housemates, we're going to let Jon win regardless of how many votes anyone else gets." Now that would've been a great TV moment!
BTW, has anyone ever observed what a racist programme BB is? As soon as any black housemate's up for eviction it's a lead pipe cinch they're going. EG. Anouska, Gos, Lee, Adele, Narinder, Amma, Dean. It's almost as bad as how sexist it is.

[Dunx re "Griddle"] I've got an idea too, "Collective Consciousness Cryptics" where we all post a word at a time, make up a cryptic clue and then solve it, before fitting it into the grid. Won't that be great?!

Remark
Can I just remark how absolutely fabulous relaxing into a hot bath after a day walking in the hills is? Normal service will be resumed after a collective sign of pleasure.
Back to 'daq
[Inkspot] Cheers for the charming announcement of Doris' arrival. Sorry to hear that I Say Porter has left. Was this voluntarily, or has he disappeared again? I hadn't noticed his name missing from the table, although I was puzzling over how Doris could move in but there were still seventeen of us...
...and another thing...
I can go to bed happy in the knowledge that I have brightened Breadmaster's day with ...so help me God.
None
What's all this bollocks about?
Dear John
Just in case you can't figure it out, try something a little more intellectually challenging.
None
[Bob the dog] OOOOOOoooooooOOOOOOOOOOh!
um
[Btd] Um ... Didn't you actually just insult all of us, rather than John? *scratches head in puzzlement*
Ire
Just venting spleen - no insult intended. Sarcasm does not travel well on the internet - I should know this by now.
None
Actually I've been thoroughly enjoying the virtual poppy plastic!
Movers and Shakers
I have to say, I'm seriously impressed by the rapid conversion of a soupçon of an idea in 'So Help Me God . . ' into a full-blown smorgasBoardgame of delights. Bravo all.
Cryptic answers
I've hidden all the answers and explanations in the source, for those who want guidance on crypticity.

Paying guest loses a fringe (6)
Vermin back in best Armenian families (4)
Mates in turmoil giving off vapour (5)
Tune on the radio ? (3)
WHERE THE EXECUTIONER'S AXE FALLS ? (5,7)
Food comes back as American time period (7)
Born in Little Rock, Arkansas - grew up in Colorado ! (7)
Darn fire is rubbish - more heat than light ! (5-3)

Sourcing
Cheers Blob. The mystery of No 7 is revealed at last.
Sound as a pound
I'm not convinced about the soundness of either no 5 or 7 - unless I'm being really dense. Is the second word of 5 clued by anything other than the orthography? Also the 5th word of 7 is not just redundant but destroys the clue.
clues
[rab] By orthography I take it you are referring to the capitalization, in which case, yep, that is the main clue - and is pretty much an accepted method of cluing - as is using punctuation in non-standard ways. The wording of the clue of course refers to the thing that the axeman's victim's head rests upon.
Arkansas ? What's wrong with that - that's where Little Rock is.
Solutions
[Blob] Well... the executioner is probably a matter of taste - I take the view that you notionally downcase and depunctuate the clue so that what's left tells you what to do. Others disagree, suggesting that if you use 'Bath' in the middle of a clue, it would have to refer to the city as opposed to 'bath' which is a tub. The only way to properly introduce ambiguity is to use it at the start of a sentence. But I'm not that extreme.

On the other hand the Arkansas clue breaks at least two rules. Firstly the definition is not "Little Rock, Arkansas grew up" but simply "Little Rock grew up". And then, if we're being pedantic (which we are), it really ought to be "Little Rock grown up". The second rule is that the definition should never come in the middle of the clue, always at the start or the end.

Everyone has their own stance on what is acceptable and what is not. I consider myself a moderate compared to Ximineans like Don Manley (whose Crossword Manual is well worth a read). However, you might consider me onerously fascist for these opinions.

definitions etc.
I entirely agree that the definition must be either at the beginning or the end, not in the middle - but I was referring to the place Boulder, in Colorado ... so "in Colorado" is at the end as required. The Little Rock growing up was the cryptic clue, and the Arkansas for completeness, suggesting a place to be looked for. Even if you objected to this inclusion, spurious words are allowed if they do not fundamentally change the meaning, and I don't think it does.
None
[rab]I presume you now get the "capital" part of No.5 - as in death (literally head removal).
Weeeelll....
I think we'll have to agree to disagree about "spurious" words which I believe have no place in a crossword clue. This extends even to articles - the distinction between 'a', 'the' and an unmarked word can be huge in a crossword clue. But this is not really relevant to my beef that "Born in Little Rock, Arkansas - grew up" is not a suitable definition (even a cryptic, subsidiary definition) of "boulder". I accept it's cute that there's a place in the US called Little Rock, and a big rock is a Boulder, which is also a place in the US. I reckon one might be able to make a satisfactory clue out of it. Sadly, I don't think this one is it.

I expect now for you to reveal that it was taken from a Times puzzle...

None
[Blob, re capital] No, I only get the block part. Could you explain?
...
O.k. I'll admit that maybe the Boulder one was tweaking the nose a little, but I deemed it sufficiently obvious not to cause a problem in solving it - I've seen a lot dodgier ones anyway.

With regards the capital one : The executioner's chopping board was known as the block capital (admittedly perhaps only poetically) as it was the block on which capital punishment was "executed".

Dawn
[Blob] Poetry is fine - I can live with my ignorance.
Scum
I reinstalled win2k on my laptop tonight. In the space of ~45 minutes between installing the network driver and a firewall, I was hit by a worm. Sometimes I wonder why I bother.
Services
[Nik] This is pretty much exactly why I'm tending to install non-packaged Linux distros; something like Gentoo encourages you to choose exactly which services to turn on rather than the (for example) Red Hat approach of turning everything on and assuming you will remember to turn everything off before you attach your box to the net.

And I never attach my box naked to the net.

huh?
I still don't 'get' cryptic clues. Oh well.
...Rendered
[Dunx] I'm coming to the end of the process of making the box dual boot with Gentoo. I'm not sure how long Linux'll last on my desktop this time; I don't get along with it for such purposes. I try again once every few months, when MS release a 'fix' that, for instance, breaks all the media codecs, requiring a reformat.
Flummoxed
I'm getting an idea for a game in which players have to make up meaningless technobabble, and the next player has to interpret it as meaning something utterly mundane and non-technological. Not sure where this is coming from...
technotechnotechnobabble
Breadmaster] Divergent entropy?
babbling
[Btd] A group of people unable to decide which Chinese restaurant to go to.
Getting it
[flerdle] Without banging on too much about it, cryptic clues are really good fun when you get into them - both solving and setting them. Those eight I did were just quickies off the top of my head, so not terribly good examples (as pointed out by various people) - but a really neat clue is a joy to behold.
The basic premise is that the clue is in two parts : The definition and the clue (or wordplay). The definition is a direct reference to the word(s) in question - most usually a synonym, but in the case of names for example it might just be "he" or "she" to signify a male or female name. Also "in (country)" often means that it is a reference to a town/city in that country.
The definition must always either be at the beginning or the end of the clue. Occasionally it is the whole clue, with the crypticity wrapped in the way it is phrased.
The clue part is the interesting bit - this is where a second, indirect reference to the word is made. Here are the main ways that the cryptic part is formed :
  • Double definition (a second definition for the same word - though with a different meaning)
  • Anagram
  • Embedded (the word is in there, usually split between two or more words, but running consecutively)
  • Reverse embedded (as above but running backwards)
  • Homophones (... sounds like ...)
  • Exclusion (removal of specified letters or words)
  • Concatenation (joining words together)
  • Inclusion (one word placed inside another)
  • Puns (word play that suggests the answer)
  • Representation (Roman numerals, chemical symbols etc)
  • Any combination of the above
I bet I've missed something crucial; but if we did have a game then we could maybe explain each clue as it is solved to help cryptonewbies.
Crytpology
[ferdle] There are a certain number of rules to help solve cryptic crosswords. The word is always defined, usually at the beginning or the end. If the clue is two words long then its usually a double definition (example, office desk (6) = bureau). Ignore all punctuation. Another good hint is to find anagrams. words like 'scrambled', 'mixed', 'blended', 'confused' and many others besides (and some are rather obscure and I don't get them). ~Solving one of Blob's clues (I hope nobody minds, it is an easy one!) STEAM is the soultion to number 3 (anagram hinted by the words in turmoil). I'm still at the early stages of learning. I find it helpful (and frustrating) to attempt crosswords with a friend, who is rather good and happily explains clues when I don't get it. Working a crossword back with the anwsers can also be useful. Is that helpful or just more confusing or not what you wanted? If you want to find more rules and hints how to slove then visit www.guardian.co.uk and go to the crosswords section and there is a page dedicated to 'how to solve' things.

[all] Ummm, little miss untechnological strikes again. How do I do hyperlinks?

how to solve
btw, sadly the guardian's page only tells you how to solve cryptic crosswords. If only it was a 'How to solve anything' page.... All of life's mysteries could be solved. Like, why is belly button fluff ALWAYS blue?.......
aagrh
Previewing my move meant I didn't notice/wasn't alerted to the fact I had been simuplosted. Blob's explaniation is far more eloquent than mine! sorry!
New I'd missed something ...
Foreign words are often used - but generally only tiddlers, such as "The French" for LE or LA (possibly LES), or "With German" for MIT.
None
[Lib] I did the same just now. ... And of couerse I meant "knew" not "new"
[Lib again] How to do hyperlinks :
<A HREF="www.thisisthesite.com/thisisthepage.htm">This is what I want it to say</A>
testing!
Thanks Blob. Testing my new found hyperlink skill to send ferdle to this aforemetnioned page.
Mind
I'll bear in mind that when previewing you're not alerted to a simulpost. Before I can make the necessary changes though, I'll need to sort out my laptop's hard disk because it has various versions of different pages that are stored on a range of servers. At the risk of upsetting the Breadmaster I think I'll need to work out how to set up virtual servers in apache to solve all my problems (notably, the DNS name of my laptop changes according to which network I connect it to).

Meanwhile, the cryptics. I can recommend two books. One is 'Cryptic Crosswords and How to Solve Them' (published I think by Chambers - you can search Amazon for example). The other is Don Manley's Crossword Manual, linked to above. The former is better for jumping in. Basically it lists the devices, and then gives some graded puzzles, with the amount of help diminishing as the book progresses. My main gripe is that the authors do like (a) to show off how clever they are; and (b) literary allusions rather than give you practical advice to clue-solving. Manley's book is much more thorough, but as he treats things more from a historical perspective, you'll find yourself dealing with Victorian mindbenders before getting into the cryptics proper. However, this book does offer an insight into the mind of a setter, which is invaluable.

One thing I dislike is microclassification of clues. Since pretty much every clue involves a combination of devices the only classification is:

  • Single definition: usually cryptic, or relying on a pun.
  • Double definition: what it says on the tin. One definition might be more cryptic than the other.
  • Definition + device: where the device is basically a set of instructions that tell you how to make the desired word.
Because you normally have two indications to the solution, it's very rare that there's any ambiguity in the clue. Although the definition could be as vague as "country" the chances are the device points only to one possible country. In that sense, I find cryptics easier than quick crosswords. On the other hand, the range of words used is often wider, so that makes it harder again.
Are we still playing the meaningless jargon game?
My all time favourite clue was suggested in an excellent book I read on cryptic crossword solving.

GEGS (9,4)
Answer:(Highlight to reveal hidden text)scrambled eggs*
None
[BtD] Which featured in a particularly good episode of "Drop the Dead Donkey" if I recall correctly.
Quiptics
[rab] Yes, Cryptics ought to be easier than "Quick" crosswords really, as you're getting two clues in one. Doesn't really work like that though - coz. firstly it could be either end that you're looking for - plus the definition itself is not necessarily straight forward. For example (again off the top of my head, so not necessarily too good), Great Persian holds quiet land (6) might be the cryptic clue, whereas the quick would probably be along the lines of Island country (6). The difference being that whilst the Quick is too vague to be able to pinpoint the country in question - it does not require you to know anything about Persians - and points you to the land being required rather than the Persian himself.
Re GEGS, that was my Dad's favourite clue too - and he told me about it, ooh, thirty years ago - so it's quite an old one.
Naturally
[Blob] This, of course, it what makes one puzzle "easier" than another in my book. For example, whilst the Everyman crossword (Observer) has a tendancy towards irritatingly vague clues, it doesn't a great deal of "general" knowledge - it's helpful to know the odd place name, or big names in various fields but nothing too out-of-the-ordinary. Contrarily, the Private Eye crossword is billed as "difficult", but I complete it about as often as the Everyman (an "easy" crossword). This, I think, is largely because the allusions are generally related in some way to the magazine (Brenda and Brian, for example, refer to the Queen and Prince Charles respectively) rather than to some obscure ode written by a 17th century poet I've never heard of. Horses for courses. I would like to be able to do the Times, or an Arucaria, but doubt I shall ever be able to scale such heights.
Definitions
[Blob, again] I find that, with practice, and if you're used to a particular setter's style, identifying the definition part of the clue can be fairly straightforward.
ta.
[Blob, Lib, et al] Thanks for that, will look over it properly in the morning. Did I mention I never learnt how to play chess either? But don't feel you have to explain here :-)
cryptoculture
Just returned home - so it's good to catch up with the cryptic chat. I attempt the Times crossword most days but can only usually complete with the aid of some very clued-up chums and has become part of our 'early doors' at the pub ritual. Coincidentally, 'GEGS' was also a favourite of my Dad, bless 'im - and brings to mind his almost child-like enthusiasm for the infamous 'HIJKLMNO [5]' clue.
Explanations R Us
[flerdle] Right then - there are 16 pieces on each side - 8 pawns ..... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
[rab] I certainly agree that you get used to certain setters' styles. No doubt about it. I'm afraid I have to admit that the cryptic I do regularly is the, ahem, Daily Mail (my wife's choice, honest) - which I actually rather like (the crossword that is, not the bloody paper) - some of its clues make my Boulder, Colorado one look positively officious by comparison. I can normally rattle it off in about 20 minutes - but every now & then, I get a setter who's on a completely different wavelength (or planet) and it takes me ages.
HIJKLMNO
[Chalky]Not seen that one before - What a truly excellent riddle, initially !
HIJKLMNO
[Blob] So it's new to you? Out of interest, how long did it take you to solve it?
HIJKLMNO
[Chalky] Just before Blob answers, I've seen it before doing the rounds as a dingbat at quiz nights.
recycling
Ah - dingbats. That poor relation. Puzzles for the masses. Well, at least it keeps a classy clue 'alive'. Incidentally, the craze for dingbats - something else that the .. erm .. estimable Daily Mail has to answer for?
dingbat [U S slang]n. something whose name one has forgotten, or does not want to use: a foolish or eccentric person: a tramp: money. Adj. [Austr. & N Z coll.] daft, crazy. [Austr. & N Z coll.] the dingbats: delirium tremens.
Such provenance says it all.
HIJKLMNO
Not too long - the brevity of the answer (just five letters) meant it had to be some clever way of reading the clue, so I just read it to myself in several ways and got there in a minute or so. But that's not to say it might not have taken me a while - perhaps I've seen something similar before, dunno.
How 'bout...
O (4,6)
Head scratching
Dunno 'bout Martha's. I got the HIJKLMNO one pretty much immediately when I saw it, but it was in the Cryptic Crosswords and How to Solve Them book as part of a special feature on weird clues, so my mind was already pointed in the right direction. One that I saw in a Grauniad crossword, and don't actually think is that great a clue (for reasons I'll explain later) is "K (7)".
None
[MF] That one is my favorite clue. :-) I was reading down through the game and was about to post it, until I saw that you had got there first. Although I think the clue should actually be
O? (4, 6).
And here's a clue mentioned in the Sandy Balfour book that I recently reviewed at Orange, which although not perfect, you have to admire:
Bust down reason? (9).
stupid damn clues
Stop putting damn clues and no answers! Some of us are thick, you know!
O? (4, 6)
Would that be (Highlight to reveal hidden text) full circle ?
O? (5,6)
Round number.
O? (4,6)
How about open letter?
"K (7)"
Can't get that one - not enough letters for Potassium...
K (7)
[rab] If it's Rufus, this must be Kelvins - if it's Enigmatist, I haven't got a chance :o)
No-one's got mine yet, and I don't think the "?" helps at all. Like HIJKLMNO, there's no definition involved.
As for "Bust down reason", I know this and I wouldn't've got it in a million years. At least, not without some letters.
None
Is O (4,6) like v (6,2,7) ??
None
Oh and is K Weekend?
k
Boolbar] I thought the same - but wouldn't the clue be in lower case, if that were the case? [MF] I'm still flummoxed by the 'O' clue but have a hunch it's more to do with numbers than letters.
v(6,2,7)
What, Middle of Kelvins or something? Sadly no. Well done on K though.
[Chalky] Yes and no. Unhelpfully.
Durr
The Weekend one reminds me of one we had on Cryptic Stations which was e This was Mile End - though I, like Chalky was put off by the capitalization - and was looking for a "head" or "top" answer.
[MF] I thought Raak had got O - you're saying not ?
None
Nuts - that "head" was supposed to be hidden.
Case bust (7,9)
Crosswords are generally filled in in all upper case, so I think "K" is valid. For "bust down reason", would this be something to do with not wearing a bra? I can't think of a 9-letter way of expressing that though.
Bust down reason
Maybe lactating?
K
Boolbar - you are correct on this one. But the reason I dislike it is because (a) it's ambiguous - the answer could just as easily be bookend; (b) there's no definition, purely a device; and (c) even as a device it's flawed because it's not indicated (e.g. with the phrase "to a setter"). These "inverse clues" are becoming more prevalent, but I don't think they're big or clever.
O
[Raak] That is true. You can make up several answers that match some of these clues - like O (4,6) = Come second. My 'v' is much the same, but is a famous schoolboy joke.
Bust down reason
[Raak] There's a simple way of expressing bra in 9 letters it's brassière. But apart from the bust bit, I can't see why it should be the answer.
Ohhh, I geddit...
[Bb] Centre of Gravity, ha ha. No, mine isn't the start, end or middle of anything. Or the second. Or even "a letter in the word 'open'".
[Blob] I said not when I said "No-one's got mine yet".
None
[MF] Too direct a clue there, Martha ! ;-)
Quick joky one : çontrol mechanism (6,6)
French accent?
BTW, there is a definition for "Bust down reason" - it's not just a device. I can't tell if there is for "Case bust", which could just mean something that encases a bust ie. "Playtex Brassiere", which is wrong.
None
[MF] No. Slightly more amusing in a schoolboy humour sort of way.
Busty clues
[Blob] I think brassière would be clued as "Bust up reason (9)". [MF] "Case bust" wasn't meant to be a clue.
None
And the (7,9)??
None
[MF]Just an allusion to the clues I was commenting on. But if you can find a solution anyway, don't let me stop you! Am I anywhere on the right lines with my solution to "Bust down reason"?
None
Yes.
I feel CdM's Bust
Down Reason should be given away by CdM, but as for my "O", the first letter is L.
Bust descending
CdM] does the answer begin with 'S'?
Ooooooops...
[Raak] You're nowhere near with "lactating".
O
[MF] Is it Love letter ?
Oh!
[Bb] That's the most convincing one I've seen so far. I think I understand the bust clue, but that doesn't bring me any nearer to solving it!
bust
I like the Bb one aswell. I'm attempting to conceal my bust solution - would the 'preview' show the word as hidden? Not sure if I'm tagging correctly.
None
[Bb] Congratulations!
[Raak] You're definitely thinking about it the right way. I agree with Martha that it's a very hard clue (I didn't get it when I was reading the book.) The first letter is B.
[Blob] I'm not sure if you are referring to a different occasion, but I clued "Mile End" as
More? (4,3)
with the idea that it should be read as "M or E"
what the fuck is a APROPOS
I BET SHE LIKES IT DOGGY STYLE ASWELL. THAT CATALINA BINT I MEEN, NOT THE QUEEN MUM GORD BLESS 'ER.
Three-sixties
I'm sure she does. Meanwhile, CdM's 'more' clue would have Ximenes turning is his grave.
For CdM or Martha
Can you confirm if the clue should be read as a double definition, 'bust' and 'down reason', the whole therefore being something that would make you depressed, either through being broke or broken? Thanks. (Hmmm... sees the appeal of a MCiOS-u-like hidden-text feature).
Hiding To Nothing
[rab] Quite so on the hidden text: goes double with skins where the background colour can vary dramatically.
Dr Jekyll
Yes... <hide>the clue should be read as a double definition</hide>

And, irritatingly, no... <hide>Nothing to do with depression - this may be a clue too far, but it's not "bust 'down reason'", but rather "'bust down' reason"</hide>
HTH. (But not really.) :oP

None
[rab] You're absolutely right about "More?" -- I am of the school that is generally Ximenean, but will make an exception for a good enough clue. Which "More?" isn't -- and I think I acknowledged as much when I set it. As for the bust clue, I don't think you are on the right track. The structure of the clue is: essentially double definition, but with each word having a different sense in the two definitions. One of the definitions clues the answer, the other clues a phrase.
oops
Sorry -- just got caught by the same preview/simulpost problem...
None
I still think it ought to be 'strapless' rightly or wrongly.
Oh
[CdM, Martha] Thanks for the help without managing to give the game away - I'm not sure if I'll get this. The preview/simulpost problem is noted, and I'll try and sort it out at the weekend.
Plus
On the plus side, it does mean, CdM, that you're preview problem a while back was a one off.
Meanwhile
I'm wondering if it's time to put Mrs Trellis to bed.
Goodbye Mrs. Trellis.
I did think of a couple of game ideas - but both have been slightly started on the other MC sites.
(1) Author Imposters Tag Wrestling - A story is told by different authors, each trying to guide the story in their style and choice of characters. Stephen King, Enid Blyton and Shakespeare can nuke it out!
(2) Animal Diaries - The animals have a game of MC - as told from extracts in their diaries.
(3) Or something cryptic.
Banned list
I was going to remark that the following are currently on my banned list: imposters, combined, bad-tempered, chivalrous, Lord Byron, Bad HTML, ostrich, ham(p)ster and Spartacus.
No! I'm rab!!
And I want to know what that <blink>f*cking</blink> hampstrich has done with my bicycle. Please.
None
I'm Spar . . . oh sorry rab, I'll just go away then. *shuffles off*
None
[Bool] There's already a slot free at Orange, if rab doesn't like those ideas.

[X-philes] "Flying heart doctors" A-O-I-I (This is a real one that I can't get.)

None
AEOLIAN would fit from the flying point of view if the final I was wrong... but as for doctors. Isn't HEART sometimes used for L? as in I [HEART] NY?
Maybe...
...but I'm 100% on the second I. (It's from "Oriflamme".) I think it must be "Amorini", ie. "cupids", but it doesn't look right.
None
I spose "doctors" because they 'doctor' people's hearts, ie. screw around with them. Although since they're sticking them with arrows, I wouldn't hire them myself.
Amorini
I was about to suggest amorini - see here but I still can't quite make it add up.
[CdM] Re Mile End - no it was a clue eons ago - not yours.
No-one's done my little çontrol mechanism (6,6) yet.
As for the bust thing - I'm completely stumped.
*groaning*
[Blob] It's French letter, isn't it?
A trip to my copyright lawyer
[Blob] Nonono -- mine was eons ago (June 2000); the other one was hardly more than a year ago. :-)
preview problem
[rab] It wasn't actually a one-off -- I had the problem for several weeks, and I stopped ever previewing for a while. But then it just went away. Sorry for not keeping you more up to date.
New game ideas
[CdM] Right. This will have to go into the book of the great unexplained.

[Boolbar, MF] It's not that I particularly dislike those ideas, it's just words like "imposter" trigger an "Oh no, not again already"-style response. I actually like the sound of the authors game - with a different moniker I might have realised the potential sooner. The reason for the banned list is that I find that such games, due in part to the huge numbers of times they've been played before, tend to be somewhat lacking in quality.

And while I've got my bad-tempered unchivalrous patronising primary-school teacher imposter hat on - could I urge people to think carefully about (a) the sense and (b) comic potential of their limerick lines. I've seen a number of great set-up lines from all players, only to be let down in a number of cases by not-so-great punchlines. I appreciate that I might be responsible for some of these and have already slapped myself on the wrist.

Aren't the clouds particularly fluffy for the time of year?

None
[rab] I agree about the overuse of some games leading to a lack of quality. [MF] The 'coin' game at orange is a little too much like the animal game. The 'authors' game I suggested is a little too close to "Once upon a time..." at MCiOS. This is why I've not started either . . . yet.

The clouds out of my window are lacking in fluffiness being more of a fuzzy amoeba-like greyness.

None
[Watty] Yo's gottit
[CdM] Oh, that eons ago - not sure I'd even discovered the site(s) at that time !
[Games] a straightforward cryptic clues game (not metrocentric) would be new.
Meanwhile, as this seems to be the home of crypticity at the moment, how about :
Support being laundered to change opinions (9)
None
*giggles insanely*
Let's be straight
The moval of the cryptic challenges to a separate page might be a good thing, particularly for those who aren't that interested. It could simply be a forum to post, solve, explain and shout down clues rather than a game with any particular theme or aim (I'm thinking in the style of the various discussion games there are/were at Orange and MCiOS like Books or Rattling Dice).

Meanwhile, Blob, my first thought was brainwash but I can't get that to fit, and in the light of Martha's comment which appeared while writing this, I suspect I'm completely on the wrong track.

None
[rab] My first thought was jockstrap, but I can't get that to fit either, so I guess it just reveals further unwanted details of my psyche.
[authors] I like this idea, but story games do seem to get mired pretty quickly. Once Upon A Time already looks ready to be shot in the head. Oddly enough, the first move in that game was originally going to be by "Arthur Conan Matt" -- which could easily have (unintentionally) turned it into something like you're suggesting -- perhaps it might have worked better if so.
None
*rolls around laughing on the floor and discovers Martha there*
*ting*
[rab] Spot on : not sure what you object to : bra is a support, in wash is being laundered, brainwash is to change opinions. Can't really see why that's not playing the game.
Blob
No, that's fine. You shouldn't assume that just cos I don't get it, I think there's something wrong with the clue. I am also quite dense.
Disappearing act...
Just a quick note to say that I’m off on my hols tomorrow, so I’ll ‘see’ everyone on the 16th when I get back.
None
*writhes in agonies of hysteria, tears streaming from eyes, gasps from lack of oxygen, has near-death experience*
cryptic giggle
What's so funny? Weirdos.
*putting people out of their misery*
[rab, Blob] Um, now might be a good time for you to reconsider:
Bust down reason (9).
Reason for falling down, busting a gut and laughing.
I think I might have worked out why CdM and Martha are chortling so ... but if so, I don't really get the clue.
Dawn
Oh, I see! Martha kinda put me off the scent a bit. And, no, I'd never have got this in a million years without the foregoing and a numerical hint.
Shakey
I think Raak's posted a category killer of a move in Shakes and Ladders... I have a couple of ideas, but how to compete with such an excellent play?
Durrr
*sound of someone being incredibly thick* (still can't get it - I have a nasty feeling that when I finally discover the answer to this, I may have to (a) hit myself over the head with my mouse then (b) hunt down Martha & CdM .... )
Roger me with a garden rake and call me Gerald
It's August!
Oh dear....
[Blob] Tempting though it is to leave you out there swaying in the wind ... let me put it this way. Perhaps now is a good time for you to reconsider
Bust down reason (9)
in the light of
Support being laundered to change opinions (9).
Here's another hint. If you examine the two clues closely, you will notice that there is the same number of letters in each answer!
None
[Dunx] I have another daisy-cutter ready, but I've been holding off, hoping for other people to carry on.
None
[Raak] I'll try and post my one feeble idea later today, but the pressure of following such an outstanding move is rather great!
Brainwave - I mean wash
Ah - so I clued the same word. Not quite as serendipitous as it might at first seem, as brainwash was one of the words I'd considered but rejected - but it looked like a nice sort of word to clue, so I did. I still don't really see why it's the answer though. I think I'd put that on my crap clues pile along with about 20% of the Daily Mail ones that I only get once I have sufficient letters.
None
That came out a bit peevish - perhaps I'm missing something.
gaming license
Hello again. I've been away, but sadly nowhere exciting (And i've been keeping my eye on things by the joy of WAP). I'm looking forward to the cryptic page, sounds like my cup of tea! Anyway I've had an idea for a game. Not sure if the technology is out there (and I'm sure someone far cleverer in such matters will be able to say "yay" or "nay") or if its been done before (and failed) but anyway, The idea is a caption competition. Someone posts a piccie and then we all suggest captions until we get bored, then someone else posts a different piccie. Will it work?
Captions
[Lib] Spinnwebe and other sites have been doing glorified caption competitions for years. Don't see why it can't work here too. You just have to be careful about where you get the pics, of course. Spinnwebe (aside from the ill-fated DFC which ripped off the Family Circus cartoons) used to get pics from people submitting their own photos into the stockpile. We could do that here, it would be a lot of fun.
Cryptics
Oh, and as for cryptics, if anyone ever ventures into rec.puzzles.crosswords, I was the creator of the FSCC (five-second crossword competition) which afaik still runs to this day. (You make a 5x5 cryptic crossword with certain restrictions, and the participants vote on the entries to see who wins.) Typical of me, though, I never took part in it again after the very first round!
Continuations
Sorry for posting so many times on this page with so little content. Here's a link for Spinnwebe's caption stuff: http://www.spinnwebe.com/a1/
bust down reason
[Blob] I couldn't get this, but having had it revealed I can see the rationale and I have to agree it is frightfully elegant. Both MF and CdM have described the mechanism, so it is probably redundant of me to point out the double definition: reason bust is down = bra in wash; to bust down reason: brainwash -- but as MF will no doubt attest, I'm always ready to be ploddingly literal at times like these.
get thee to a flummery
In any case, since Lib has gently encouraged Mrs Trellis back into retirement, perhaps it's time to dignify the cryptologists with a game of their own? I'd do it myself if I had the aptitude, but (as should be painfully obvious) I don't.
Technical support desk
[matt] Well, you click on 'Start a new game' and then... oh. I see what you mean. Yes we need a suitable title and intro blurb. In the absence of other titles, perhaps 'Bust down reason (9)' would be appropriate?
'Start a new game' and then...
Or Obscure vault 99 (7)
None
Or "Cry 'Picts!' - resolve difficulties"?
Anyway, can anyone help with "Bank's route to the deposits" I-C-I--? I think it might be Incline, but why?
wail over postscript about spasm (8)
I suppose you have inc-line (or a line/route to an inc) where inc = increase = deposit, and a bank is an incline.
Me being picky
[Boolbar] Your "wail..." clue isn't quite legitimate as it omitted the straight def, and it doesn't really work as an &lit imho either. Maybe make it "Clues wail over postscript about spasm" but that doesn't have a very good surface, unfortunately. [matt] Incidentally, "bust down reason" isn't a double def, it's an &lit. A double def is where you have two definitions next to each other. An &lit (meaning "and literally true") is where the whole clue is simultaneously both the cryptic form *and* the straight def.
Today's Everyman
Some nice clues but I can't get 6D. Maybe it'll come to me when I go for a swim presently. For the record the clue is "Hope chest contains last gift brought over (6,6)" and I have B_T_O_ D_A_E_. I would also explain why I find some of today's clues quite elegant, but think I should wait until someone makes a ruling on what the X-word game should be called.
Everyman
BOTTOM DRAWER. I tried the Independent crossword yesterday, and solved exactly one clue. Completely baffled by the rest -- how does the Independent crossword rank against the others for difficulty? Left it on the train, so I can't quote examples.
Deep down and dirty
[Raak, re your solution[ That's what I thought but why?

[Raak, re Indie] I had a go at this too, and solved four clues. My Dad does the Indie on a daily basis, and I can't remember which setters he claims to be easier than the others. I think they range from somewhere just above the Everyman to somewhere just below Arucaria. But I might be wrong.

Hope chests
[rab] "Hope chest" is the definition, "last" is a definition of the first word, and "gift brought over (i.e. reward reversed)" indicates the second.
Picked
[Darren] You are right, but I though it was getting so obvious what was being clued that the definition was pointless (well that's my excuse anyway!!)
Chesty teaser
[Raak] Thanks for that... I've never heard of a hope chest, but I did at least manage to get a fruity desert I'd never heard of in the same puzzle so that almost gave me a feeling of pride and accomplishment.

[Game names] Any of those would do. Someone care to cut the ribbon, or do I have to do it?

Update update The requested simulpost-during-preview warning has been added. But not, I'm afraid, on this website. It's on the 'working copy' which, for good measure, has been converted to use an exciting new cauliflower to drive the HTML sprocket. What this means in practice is that you'll notice no changes in the forseeable future, but I might one day get round to writing alternative interfaces (eg WAP). Job etc.

None
Hey, look at that. My connection has stayed alive three mornings in a row. Which is handy, with me working on weekend time for two of them, and forgetting to check on my way out again this morning.
Busted flush
[CdM, MF, matt] O.k. I see it now - and as you say, it does have a certain elegance. My only quibble with is really is that it is a bit two-staged, in that <hidden_bit>one has to get to "bra in wash" as a reason for the bust to be down, and normally such two-stage clues are inadmissable. Like having to find a word and then anagramise it. I've seen it done, but it does cause confusion IMHO</hidden_bit>
None
The distinctive feature of the "bust down reason" clue is that the entire clue is simultaneously the definition and the cryptic indication, instead of them being separate halves.
Flush or bust
[Blob] I think this what Manley calls "A clue to a clue"; but didn't you know you can excuse anything with a question mark. In any case as Raak and Darren point out, it's an &lit clue. This type of clue is what people entering the Azed clue-writing competition usually aim for. Often with disastrous consequences, as it's extremely difficult to get a clue that is both crossword-grammatically correct and furnish a sound definition of the whole.
Cryptologists please note
The obscure vault has been opened, probably to the relief of the uninterested.
*pipes up*
But what shall we talk about, now?
None
No fluffy clouds here today.
None
Dark here now.
dreams of darkness and coolness in the blinding 30 degree heat of the office*
I dropped crunchy nut cornflakes and milk in my keyboard this morning. :o(
Talking points
[pen] Whoops.

Meanwhile I'd like to point out, though I will suspect none will care, that the 'Extended overhaul' of the DJ Shadow track 'Organ Donor' (on the Preemptive Strike compilation) is a triumph.

*laughs fearlessly at 30 degree heat*
I had Froot Loops for breakfast this morning. mmmm sugar.
I skipped brekkie and went straight onto lunch.
PUBLIC HEALTH WARNING.

On wednesday, newly qualified Dr Lib and hundreds of her Doctor friends are being let out onto the British public at large, allegedly to make them better. It is your duty to do us all a favour and avoid getting admitted to hospital (preferably for ever! but if you must get ill then at least wait a week or two so the new baby doctors will have had chance to work out whats going on). I thank you all for reading this announcement and wish you all the best of health.

None
Not the best time to have my knee go dodgy while working out, then?
*Insert hen pun here*
Tuesday is the day that our Chickens arrive. We'll be trotting over to Craven Arms in Shropshire (sounds like a pub but isn't) to collect them. Hooray!
Chicken Pun
[Btd] Egg-sellent!
Rubbish start to the day
Having made it all but three steps into work this morning, a lump of purple shit fell out of a tree and landed on my (of course) clean white t-shirt. I've spent several minutes in the gents scrubbing it like crazy and am now back in my office on one of the hottest days of the year with the fan heater blasting out in a vain attempt to make the slightly-less-stained shirt less moist. Of course, now the heater has cut out, deciding it to be way too hot. Grrr...
I spose
I could stand out in the sunshine, but then at the risk of burning my poor head...
Head of the class
[Rab] I concur. As I have stated before: Summer = evil.
Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe and Eggrything.
[BtD] Which are you getting first? The chickens or the eggs?
Counting chickens
[BtD] I'd love to keep chickens. Are they RIRs or fancy ones with feathered legs?
Chicken tikka marsala
[BtD] So they're LIVE ones - what fun! I 'did' bantams for one rather rustic year when I was younger and foolish enough to want to impress a potential husband [animal husbandry pun obligatory].
IN the Hen House
[Chalky] But did it work?!! We need to know these things! Is it worth investing in half a dozen chickens and a hutch or is my money better spent on posh underwear?
Defurcation
Someone's shat on the furcation game? Do we want it reinstated? I guess that's aimed at Martha Farquar really.
Ready... aim...
The subject of the aiming being the question about reinstatement, not the shitting. Just to be clear.
None
[pen] I think the chickens would definitely look better in a hutch than in posh underwear.
bantam waits
[penelope] I went all fickle, ran off with a drummer in a folk-rock band and as I recall, the posh underwear was quite unnecessary. hehehehe.
None
There must be some joke about both drummers and chickens having drumsticks . . . .
o f*ck
My colleague has just accepted another job - we've been running a PR programme together for the past five and a half years and now... eeeeek!!! *sees her holidays disappearing into the mist as the workload piles up while someone else is appointed*
Colleague update
*dribbles juices over the keyboard as a consequence of sucking colleages plums*
rab's juicy innuendo
[rab] Careful you don't stain your white T-shirt.
[penelope] That's a bit of a bummer. So - this PR malarkey? Could any one do it?
Sticky fingers
[Chalky] Yup. Any dipstick can do it. As long as you're smarter than the average, have newspaper experience, can tell the difference between a good story and a bad one and be able to tell the client exactly what you think and hold your temper when they disregard everything you say, be able to turn a phrase or two and don't mind having red pen through your work every now and again.
Closure
Sorry about the brief closure (if anyone noticed it). Just reinstating The Furcation Game at Projoy's request. There'll be no need to close the station for such essential maintenance when I roll out the next major upgrade, sometime in 2008 (subject to Government funding).
Re: Closure
[rab] Ah yes, those long-awaited updates... you will recall how long it took me to finish the code that fixed the "this game is too long" problems, and similar longeurs have affected exactly the kind of admin screens which I suspect you are talking about (well, not strictly true - I did write the necessary admin screens at the same time as String itself, but they've never worked). The urgency of the whole random Lock Cup game creation fiasco thing is making me work rather more rapidly on logins, which is really about minimising the amount of work I have to do in removing the detritus.
Longeurs
[Dunx] At the risk of Checking My Oats, the grand scheme is to move from a flat-file storage system to a mySQL back-end. Then I can use an off-the-shelf frontend (with appropriate security cauliflowers enabled to prevent any old Jack coming along and dropping his spade) to do the tweaks when required. It will also remove a shed-load of concurrency issues and, in principle, provide better data integrity, removing the need for having a+w mods on parts of the server (evil). Currently (i.e. on the [not-]working version) the front page is converted: just need to do the creation page (easy) and the thread page (hard) before it's done. Hence the 2008 ETA.
Chicken Run
Just got back with the chickens - yes they are live and clucking - if rather breathlessly in this heavy atmosphere. I built the hen-house myself and it is extremely satisfying to see that they fit in it. What would I have done if they hadn't?
Penelope
What are RIRs? They are hybrids chosen for free-range hardiness and egg quality. Two Black Rocks and a Speckledy. They are currently pecking at a cabbage we left for them. Must try one of rabs security cauliflowers.

Re poultry vv underwear as bloke attractant, I know what I’d go for but I’d probably be misunderstood.
I said, I said, what are RIRs?
[BtD] RIRs are Rhode Island Reds, the rusty tawny brown chickens. I'm not sure what sort of chicken Foghorn Leghorn was... but I do remember acting as a poultry traffiker and facilitating the transfer of a cock looking very much like him between a schoolfriend's house and my uncle's house. I left him in a cardboard box in the boot of my car for a couple of hours and he was as quiet as a mouse. Unfortunately he livened up a bit after that and attacked my small cousins. I think they probably ate him.
What's a security cauliflower? Is it more or less effective as a bloke attractant than poultry or posh underwear?
security cauliflower
I dunno - try the phrase on rab - he has been using it alot recently - along with spade dropping, a+w and 'Checking My Oats'. Good job I know my RIRs from my Marans.
beguiling cauliflowers
The answer to your last query [pen] is contained in rab's posting, and I quote : 'with appropriate security cauliflowers enabled to prevent any old Jack coming along and dropping his spade' . . . which I guess means less effective.
None
[rab] Arr. In theory, the String code is sufficiently modular to enable just that kind of substitution. In practice, is it bollocks like. I do like the idea of using someone else's admin code, though... I've just started detailing the Lockisseum account management stuff, and the fact that I know exactly what it needs to do does not in any way detract from the fact that it is going to be right pain in the arse to write - yea, e'en unto the point where I'm wondering if I should even bother. Well, I'll certainly keep at it for a wee while yet, since much of the infrastucture that will make this stuff at least practical is already there, but still... it's not fun.

I'm really really glad I'm not trying to do session management though.

Explanitude
[Dunx] Response in 'Oats', hopefully by the time you get up.

[Security cauliflowers] Bob - I think you might be confusing the security cauliflower with the NS4 compatibility dandelion. It's completely unrelated to that strain of cauliflower that drives the HTML sprocket (which in turn uses a fabby plugin strawberry - dead impressed). I think there's an adage somewhere about roses and sweetness being my weakness. <timmy_mallet>Ah-yeah!<timmy_mallet>

Sloth
Is it just me or is anyone else experience sloth on the part of the interwebnet today? I notice this particularly with sites hosted on t'other side of the Atlantic.
Sloth
[rab] Nope, just the usual Gluttony and Lust for me...
NS4 compatibility dandelion
I recently put pinkhat 4.2 on a 'lobster' pc and was hoping to use Pastil or its fruitdriver cbbc on it. (I am also interested in using the orgasmatron 5.7). I tested the setup with a program consisting entirely of 'wangsnappers' and ran it thru both Pengiun and step by step complile and link using f-o-t and then Bernard Mathews 2.2. I am left with an executable which, when run produces no output. Do I need a NS4 compatibility dandelion???
Dandelion
[Bob] No - the dandelion is a server-side, rather than a client-side, bit of horticulture.

In the meantime I notice that it's rather quiet today. Am I the only one working? Not for long though, I hope. I'm thinking... Hmmmm be-er. Hmmmm gar-den. Hmmmm Private Eye crossword so I'll probably bugger off at 5.

None
[BtD] Ignore rab [who simulposted]. I say yes. But watch out for CiSloops which curdle 5.6i interfaces. I found G-ripetool [the citrus version] had more centenniel compatibity.
Work?
Luckily I had to attend a photoshoot on the south coast today to teach someone how to do it, so was revelling (in my darkest shades and straw hat - I kid you not - with thick dark hair, my head absorbs heat like a solar panel) in sunshine and seabreezes while the rest of the company sweltered in our un-airconditioned offices. Then of course, I had to take my student out to lunch. I can recommend a shady table on the Boardwalk overlooking Port Solent with lots of iced sodas :o)
Relaxation
It's Wednesday, it's half past twelve, and it's time for a nice bike ride. At least now I've the little computery doohickey to work so I know how fast I'm going and far I've been.
G-ripetool
Chalky/rab] I can access the client-side horticulture with Chalkys G-ripetool (vv 4.3 downloaded for €1 from www.nerdnest.com). The ability to play FNKY streams was implemented, along with the ability to add pimento directories recursively in addition to individual Conan the Barbarian files. Maestro options were added to the strange-quark-cake menu, and strange-quark-cake now launches the backend process if it is unable to connect to it. Schemas with descriptions were added for the options in HRT, and a number of usability improvements in DUCK. Despite this, my pc is still cak. Am I using the wrong DUCK?
None
Here's a link to www.nerdnest.com.
None
Does anyone ever post lonely hearts ads on here? Can I do it?
lonesome pining
[Dear Darren] penelope expressed some interest in husband-snaffling [see above]. You may need to express your preference, though, for either chicken hutchery or pricy lingerie.
withdrawn from sale
[Chalky] I'm already the item of interest for a young man, although of doubtful husband material. Let's see what Darren has to say anyway!
None
Well, there doesn't seem much point if there's no-one available!
window shopping
[Darren] That sort of attitude won't get you anywhere. C'mon, let's see what you've got to offer!
None
In honour of present company, I'm naming my chickens Penelope, flerdle and Lib (all of whom I'm pretty certain are female - please correct me if I'm wrong). Pen is the Speckledy and flerdle and Lib are both Black Rocks.

Darren] I believe that other lady contibutors include Saskia and Néa – and I'm not sure about snorgle (sorry!). Add to that the many thousands who access this site and are too sensible to post and I'd say go for it ♥.
Arsebiscuits
I had the wisdom a while back to book a train journey passing through Birmingham for today. According to the nationalrail website, the first leg of my journey will be avoiding the station I want to get on at. I tried calling Virgin to ask them what to do instead, and they put me onto the rail enquiry "helpline" who said they didn't know that that train wasn't running and what I should do instead...
National Snail
rab] Is this the usual B'ham New Street/Moor Street/Snow Hill cock-up?
chicken fancier
[BtD] I am indeed honoured. And it has casued a giggle around the office :o). I bet I lay the first egg!
Train Pain
I've found in the past that if you phone a rail enquiry helpline more than once and ask the same question, you'll get different train times and fare prices.
Egg Betting
[BtD] I'm putting my virtual money on flerdle for first egg. Can we have a photo of the three lovely ladies?
Let the train cause the pain
[BtD] Don't think so. Occasionally Virgin Trains think they can get away with not stopping at minor stations like Manchester Piccadilly. [Boolbar] I'm going to try again later. At first I wondered if I'd got one of these outsourced Indian or Taiwanese call centres, but it turned out the chap I was speaking to had a Geordie accent. I feel slightly bad about talking to him. In very simple sentences. Just to make sure. My query was understood.
Chick-chicken
[BtD] I have met all three of your chickens' namesakes and despite not having conducted a full medical examination, can assert with reasonable probability that all are female.
Rail or derail
What the heck are you lot complaining about - we've got a rail infrastructure that looks like it's totally *u****, even without Virgin involvement - which I suppose means I should say that it's immaculate? I guess that does not make a lot of sense unless you are half pickled - but I'm sure you will get the drift.
Rack and Ruin
[Dujon] Whence do you hail?
Lonely hearts
♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥
♥ Incredibly amusing male Crescenteer seeks similar, except for the male bit, for initial slightly-awkward conversation with a view to extended hugging sessions*. I'm mid-20s, in the south-east, own business, overweight. What more could you possibly want? So, if you're a female Crescenteer from anywhere who is still reading, drop me a line at the phonetic address vee em gee ess ee dee eye @ geocities.com.

* If early games go well, shunting and straddling may be introduced at a later stage.

 ♥
♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥
email
Dammit, that shouldn't be geocities.com, but msn.com. (Treat this as an intelligence test!)
Commercial venture
Did I tell you it's 36p per word + VAT + P&P ?
not a bloke
[BtD] I'm a girly. And I'm sure that snorgle will confirm that she is. There's a lot of it about.
I can name that chicken in three clucks!
[BtD] You'll have to get more hens to keep up with all these girlies.
commercial vulture
[rab] yohard-hearted so-and-so - it should be a free service! Wouldn't you like to be shopping for a new hat (a la Cilla) to wear at the first Mornington Wedding?
oops
sp/yo/you space*
Gaah?
What's next? Who Wants To Marry A Crescenter?
The Bantam Page
I'll do what I can for chicken photos - may take a day or so because I'm an analogue camera user. In the meantime the first egg sweepstakes are:
Penelope: Penelope
flerdle: Boolbar
Lib:None as yet. br>
Disclaimer. Eggs may be delayed by a few weeks due to youth of chickens (18 weeks) and/or method of husbandry (as natural as possible). And Bob the dog will not bear the responsibility for any gambling debts.
Hmmmm
I think I'm honoured.... All the best with the chooks, BtD. I think I would really need to be an Australorp though. But I suppose a Black Rock is ok...
None
[rab] Should you rename this "The Bantam Page"??
Eggy
[Bob] Stick my name on Lib's egg. I'm sure she'll be thrilled :)

[penelope] That's what I need the money for, of course.

In actual fact I have considered setting up a totally free dating site, as it does seem rather mercenary for one to profit from other people's loneliness (or, indeed, vice versa). However there are two unresolved difficulties. Firstly: how do you filter people so that those who sign up are reasonably serious, responsible and have sufficient wit to woo and intelligence to recognise a parking meter when it slaps them across the forehead? I wondered whether to have some sort of off-the-wall questionaire where it's not so much the answers given that determine whether you are accepted into the fold or not, but whether you even attempt to answer them. I'm not sure I'd have the wherewithall to design such a thing. Secondly, and perhaps more seriously, I wouldn't wish to be held responsible if things went wrong...

flerdle chook
Thanks rab - any one else wishing to place a bet?

flerdle] With the fear that I may be misinterpreted again, the Black Rock is a very attractive bird (better - in my opinion - than the Australorp). As you will see when the photos arrive.
Lonely Tarts Club
I feel this could be the chance to indulge in a nice Blind Date-themed game. Not exactly how sure it should work, but perhaps it could end up, like a Shakespeare comedy, by pairing up all extraneous Crescenters each with their ideal partner (Blob with Raak, CdM with st d and so on).
Hearty loons
I had a similar idea. Players submit Lonely Hearts ads under a pseudonym and other have to guess their online identities.
None
other/others
None
and now that York is truly gone (sob) couldn't we add a few more games?
New games
There's been a spare slot at Orange for a couple of weeks now - can't see any reason to open the floodgates.
Madeira / !York
If !York is caput - any chance of at least resurrecting the Encyclopaedia Morningtonia on one of the surviving sites ? I believe fairly recent tarballs exist, do they not ?
Buzz
As may be apparant from some of the foregoing, I'm off away shortly to catch a train. Maybe it's the one I'm booked to travel on, maybe not. One part of the National Rail website says the intended train is not calling at Manchester; another part says it has already reached Preston and is heading towards Manchester as planned (which I find hard to believe - it would be about 30minutes early in that case...). The upshot of this is that although I expect to be near a phoneline over the weekend, or possibly even a broadband antelope, I might not be on hand to apply lint to grazed knees and the like.
En-cyclops
I have a grand plan - maybe I'll start work on it at the weekend - to code up some sort of collaborative web-based encyclopaedic buzzard (a bit like a wikipedia, or h2g2, but not, cos that's not the point) into which Morningtonia would fit quite nicely, and be updated by the community. Good idea? (ETA 3062)
wikipedia
The NS4 compatibility dandelion or Chalkys G-ripetool should do the trick ;o)
BillowBap Reminder
Don't forget to use Snudgen Inserts, or the eng-wardrobe will be left open to SNAX.
Yorkishness
[BtD] rab speaks truth, as ever. [Blob] Publishing !York's archives is one thing on my list to do. It might happen alongside the account stuff I was wibbling about earlier on.
Not killed anyone yet....
[BtD] Thanks for naming the chick after me (and we're both shropshire lasses, so is kinda nice!), its the nicest thing anyone has done for me today. (Have decided that being a doctor is no fun!)

[All] As well as having Encyclopedia Morningtonia here can we get some players profiles too? There's so many of you I know nothing about (not having been around for long).

[rab] I can't get to orange (stupid random firewall) so I'd also bid for raising the game limit here (especially as the cryptic discussion is not really a game, as such).

[Darren] Nice advert. Shame I'm not really eligible!

Delphic Utterances
Now might also be a good time to mention, in an "I-can't-do-anything-to-help-but-I'm-going-to-bleat-about-it-anyway" sort of a way, that I don't believe there is yet a solution for what will happen to the Delphi archive, with the result we may lose a bit of our history.
None
[Projoy] I can't help with the Delphi archive because I do not have a copy.
you mean this doesn't help, Lib?
Aunty Pode
[rab] If flerdle's comment about 'chooks' is any indication, I'm with her, but about 700 miles further south if her profile is accurate in respect of geography. To give a straight answer - near Sydney, Australia.
Arrival
Wow - I made it. Don't know how, given that the first leg of the journey was off, and the carriage I was booked on was missing from the second leg of the journey. My hostess pointed at a computer last night and said "broadband" which I've taken as an invitation to use it. It's quite fast (first experience of the same) tho' XP is horrible.

[Lib] Maybe that can be arranged.

[Dujon] I've never experienced any kind of antipodean transportation contrivance, so I shall shut up :)

IE on XP
So can anyone explain to me how it is that the world's richest and most powerful software company which produces what I understand to be the market leading in web browsers can't get transparant PNGs to display properly? I'll have to see if I can tweak the graphics to sort this situation out. But really...
None
s/leading/leader/.
Chicken update
Day 3. No eggs yet. Chickens beginning to explore their new home although still reluctant to use their ramp and had to be forcibly evicted this morning. Penelope has the most adventurous spirit and eats everything you give her, flerdle is the gentlest, yet seems to be top of the pecking order and is respected by the other two. Lib is the naughty one. Likes to steal food. All enjoyed a good dust-bath yesterday evening.
Dee Twintysivin
[BtD] Set up a live video stream and it'll be just like Big Brother - only more interesting.
chick-watch
Fascinating. Absolutely fascinating. *brushes dust out of hair*
Great Hentertainment
If they don't want to use their ramp, do you have to put them to bed as well?
*worries about flerdle*
A little bit of logical analysis reveals the following:
1. Penelope eats everything you give her.
B. Lib steals food.
I conclude, therefore, that Lib must be stealing this food from flerdle. This conjecture is reinforced by the information that flerdle is the gentle one. What use is respect, if she is going to end up starving to death?
buckets of tea
I enjoyed the banter on cryptic croswords, as I am one of the worlds most dense when it comes to working them out. So it was useful reading all your hints on definitions and clues. Since last Friday whilst on Broad Haven beach, I've dabbled and its been most rewarding, although not getting anywhere completing any I feel happy with my 5 or 6 words. The cryptic game is a great idea, some of the answers are beyond me even with the explanation, just put it down to too many years of 'quick' crosswords.
Which brings me to Celebdaq I go away for the best part of a week with no acess to my pc and I end up on top... makes note to go on leave again and pencils in last two weeks of August.
BtD]We're having a barbie on Sunday, is it too late to put an order in for a couple of drumsticks?
None
Inkspot] No such cluck. But I know a really good organic and free-range farm you could try.
Cryticians
[Inkspot] Keep going with those cryptics: getting started is always the hardest part. Once you've got a few letters - especially initial letters - then more will follow.
*peep*
[Dujon] Yes, I'm up here, where it's nice and warm, a bit cloudy (oh, and dark, being night time and all). We really should organise an antipodean not-pilg in the next few months - there's at least 5 of us around the place. Sydney is quite central...

Hmmm, I'm hungry... *wanders off in search of munchies*

Strailian geography
[flerdle] Wouldn't Alice Springs be more central?
Out in the middle of bl**dy nowhere, mate
[Raak] The population of Australia is distributed like a thin smear of vegemite along the east and south-east coast. And since I'm in Brisso, Dujon and Kathryn are in Sydney, PaulWay is in Canberra, and I am under the impression, from "Advice" on MCiOS that there is a RavenBlack somewhere around here - but I may be wrong about that - Sydney would be the place to meet. Howaboutit?
Marmite
And very thin marmite vegemite it is too - (have a look at this table).
That's taken from the rather excellent Wikipedia
It's even worse than you thought...
And only 1% of the area of Australia has 84% of the population in it, according to this.
.... and ...
And 61% of the population lives in just the big five cities - which must account for a tiny percentage of the national area.
sex and chickens
I am, indeed, female. I also do not have a hen named after me. I will survive.
making up
snorgle] I am sorry - I've only got three chickens. However, if one goes broody, I'll be getting some fertile eggs for it to sit on and will keep at least 1 female progeny. Your name will be first on the list.

Day 4: They've learnt how to use the chicken ramp. Penelope made a bid for escape but was easily coaxed back with some parsley. The henhouse-mates are getting on well so it is unlikley that any will be put up for eviction. The sweepstake for the first egg is still open, so far it is:
Penelope: Penelope
flerdle: Boolbar
Lib: rab
chickens
Ok, I'll vote for flerdle. If she's the top of the pecking order, maybe she'll lay first. I don't know much about hens - do they normally lay unfertilised eggs every day, or every few days?
BTW - my last apropos brought up some interesting google hits..
Big Clucker 2003
It's like some mad Big Brother inversion. When will the humans for the chickens to look after be arriving?
This is Big Clucker
Nik] I'm already here! snorgle] Number of eggs depends on variety of chicken. Black Rocks and Speckledys lay about 280 (unfertilised) eggs per year, so I'll have about 16 eggs a week over the next three years. Black Rocks lay particularly high quality eggs and as the hens are being reared out doors on grass and natural feed (no egg colourant) I'm hoping the yolks will be bright orange rather than mass produced anaemic yellow. The most fantastic sponge cake I've ever tasted was baked with eggs from a friends farm and it was a wonderful golden colour because of the quality of the eggs.
Teach my grandmother to lay eggs ...
[BtD] If they're on grass do make sure they have access to plenty of grit somewhere, or else their eggs will have brittle and/or thin shells and may well smash "on delivery" so to speak.
Poulty husbandry
We used to have chickens until foxes ripped them to shreds. They would each lay an egg a day until we were so sick of eggs we didn't know what to do with them. I remember that on one occasion one of them didn't eat enough grit, and it produced eggs that weren't brittle so much as wobbly. Truly revolting, and a splendid thing to view at an impressionable age.
Wibbly wobbly ?
[Bm] Please do define "wobbly".
True grit
Blob/Breadmaster] Thanks, job done. They've got oyster shell (for calcium - shell strength) and grit which helps digestion (it grinds their food up. They also get a supplement of layers pellets containing calcium too. I've been reading an 18th Century book on animal husbandry and they used to bake and grind up eggshell and feed it back to the chickens. I’m fairly sure that this is now against the law (fear over build-up of pathogens and salmonella being possible reasons for this). The book (Cottage Economy by William Corbett) is full of grand ideas such as harvesting nettles and drying them for winter feed. Nettles are stacked with nutrients and we’ve got plenty of them so I’m going to try that one. As for foxes, I'm pretty sure these chickens are safe - hedgehogs may be more of a threat (they eat alive anything they catch). The run is enclosed, our garden has a 6 foot fence (usually adequate to ensure fox exclusion on its' own) and although the chicks are thick, they have learned to go in to their house at night. I've designed it so that the run is raised to cover the pop-hole, keeping them secure.
Still no eggs by the way. Chicken photos with Boolbar for uploading (I have no website).
Chick-o-vision
We want WebCams!
You can be sure of Shell
I have friends who have kept chickens for years and have always baked the shells to add as grit. I think it's only illegal if you're taking part in a commercial enterprise - ie selling the eggs, in which case you have to have them salmonella-tested anyway. I doubt any salmonella bacterium would survive the heat and desiccation of baking. But in the general view that cannibalism is a bad thing, I think you're better off not doing it. And 'define wobbly'? Well, I've seen an egg like this... it is egg-shaped, but instead of shell there's just a thick membrane - imagine a balloon full of water but not-quite-fully extended. Tasted fine though.
It had to be said....
Euwwww!
wobbly bobbly
Aha - a sort-of shellless egg. I see. Yughk. Though excellent for water-bomb (o.k. egg-bomb) fights ! Ha ha ! The yolk's on you !
Thin skinned
Funny that this subject should rear it's head. I boiled an egg the other night - in the fond hope of having a curried egg sandwich - and deliberately boiled it for 6 minutes. I had not eaten for around 48 hours and was quite looking forward to the feast. I left it in cool water for a couple of minutes, which is my usual ploy to avoid blistered fingers, and then grabbed it with the intent of stripping the thing naked. Now, I was half tickled at the time, but, when it simply collapsed in my hand in an approximation of the childrens' goo stuff that one sees advertised, I threw it in the general direction of the compost bin. Luckily my aim was straight (not bad from 6 feet into a 4" x 4" container). My wife was not impressed! I now have to search my locality to find someone who grows roses which I can nick. So, BTD, I look forward to your contributions on chicken (whoops, sorry, flerdle, chook) husbandry. I'd love to have a few banging around in the back yard but I suspect that, apart from local council regulations, my two cats might just have a say in that.
And again
EUWWWWW!
Lovely birds.
[BtD] I am unable to upload photos at work, but will do so tonight.
Dujon mustard
Dujon]:o) What rotten cluck! I'll be very happy to supply you with fresh eggs if I ever make it down-under or if someone invents a way of sending food as email attachments.
Cats are an endangered species here in Warwickshire. I witnessed a Buzzard attack on our own cat a year or so ago. The local Buzzard population is booming and There are reports in local papers of missing or mauled moggies. The chickens, however are safe. I hope. I think.
Boolbar] Yipee! And thank you.
Safe chickens
They may be safe, but I'll have to be careful.
Being buzzed ...
[BtD] Where abouts in Warks ? I used to live on the Staffs / Warks border, and spent many a happy day driving around the county.
We've started to get buzzards occasionally in & around Tring - (whereas I'd not seen one there for the previous fifteen years). I also saw a kite (of the feathered variety) fly over our house last year - I think it was just on a recky mission coz. I've not seen one since. But they're certainly spreading their territory from the Stokenchurch area northwards - loads round Thame now.
The Birds
[BtD] I like the picture caption at the top of that report :"The cyclist is planning to protect herself from attacks". Looking at the picture I assume that the cyclist is planning to disguise herself as a buzzard.
Who put the red in Celebdaq? err... no, that doesn't work... whatever
*finds all sorts of interesting things crawling around on the trading floor* OMG - I had completely forgotten I was supposed to be making money.
absent mindedness
*cackle*
elevation, elevation, elevation
You remember I told you my colleague was leaving? The boss and I just went out for lunch and a chat. We're restructuring... I get to be manager, get a pay rise etc etc...YAY!!!!
Yey!!
[pen] First you get a hen named after you, and now this. Yey!
promoting
[pen] Yay! That's excellent. Well done. Hope its a significant one!
modesty...
[Lib] 'Kin 'ell. I've only just thought about that. It's 20%!!!
Pen buys the next round
Yay! Well done! However, your namesake hasn't layed an egg yet.
egg-nog , anyone?
I'll admit I'm chuffed to bits. What's more, I may just be able to flog my tent (sleeps four, dark green tunnel tent, used once) to my soon-to-be-ex colleague who has snatched not only a hot-air balloon ride in the Northampton Balloon Festival on Friday, but also a last-minute ticket to the Stafford V Festival this weekend. Jammy sandwiches, virtual beers, Pimms and shandies all round. Unfortunately, unless BobTD starts squeezing chickens' heads, there's no egg-nog.
Yay!
[pen] Congrats!
Defining wobbly
Yes, what Penelope said. I can't believe she actually ate the thing though. [BtD] Nettles are great. They're terribly healthy. The Victorians would sell them at market as a vegetable. I used to pick and eat them frequently, partly for my obsessive healthy eating drive and partly because I was incredibly poor. You have to pick them as they are growing, not when they're old and raggedy late in the season, and you pick just the top four leaves. This means that you have to pick an awful lot to get a decent quantity. Then the best thing to do with them is steam them. They cook extremely quickly. You might think you would have to cook them for ages to kill the sting, but in fact the sting goes almost instantly, so you can treat them essentially as spinach. They taste similar but with a pleasant velvety sort of texture.
joining in the back-slapping and hoping for a pimms
Superb skills penelope. Sounds as though the promotion is well deserved. Hope the new responsibilities won't gobble up your 'online chief crescentess' time, though.
Whoops!
Forgot to add my congratulations. Well done, pen. [Chalky] I thought one of the management skills is "delegation" which, as I understand it, could be used to free up plenty of time for the same.
Delegates
[rab] Better that than delegating someone else to play, certainly.
Orangeless
Cross-posting of course, but a note for Orange MC players - the server which hosts Orange will be down for repairs at some time between 4:30pm and 7:30pm ET today (that's 21:30-00:30 BST). The outage should be for 20-60 minutes, and is to replace a broken CPU. Hopefully Orange will be a bit less sluggish afterwards, too.
Re: Orangeless
It's back. Not that it went away for long in the end.
A delegation of minions
[rab] Good point about delegating - and delegating someone to make moves on my behalf (especially in MC where you know my skills don't shine) has given me an idea. I'm going to be involved in the interviewing for the underling position(s) [tbc], so maybe I could ask the applicants to make a move in one of the games here, then you can all judge whether they deserve the job or not!! Whaddya think guys???!!! Do I have the skills to be a manager or not, eh? :o)
Filet Minions
Have a care before introducing professional colleagues to MC before you know them well. For one thing it gets harder to post cross rants about the bastards in the office in the Advice game.
Filet-o-Fish
[pen] I suggest a game of 'Straight face'.
pokered
[rab] Straight face? I guess it means anything but, but would you explain? :o)
Delegat-hen
[pen] Get BtD to stick a tube map in the hen-house. When pen-the-hen pecks at a station, that's your move!
[BtD] Did you get my email(s)? Hen pics are online!
Beef swellington
[pen] On the contrary. The aim of the game is to maintain a straight face while your opponent says things to bring this state of affairs to en end.

Meanwhile I'm trying to cancel my contract with the Carphone Warehouse. If I have to listen to Connected being played down a tinny old phone one more time...

Henpics
[Bb] url?
Me again!
It's amazing how long it takes for a salesperson to realise that the reason you want to buy something from elsewhere is that their opponents give a better deal and nothing they can offer matches up...
url
BtD is somewhat busy - so using some left over bits of HTML and sticky backed plastic, may I present . . . Big Clucker!
Geoshity
Ignore those pesky errors that pop-up. Geocities is the only upload place I can access at work - and they bung their own code on top.
chick flicks
[Boolbar] No pesky errors when I looked. Just three surprisingly pretty hens in a very clean place. Penelope's obviously a heart breaker, Flerdle looks mischievous and Lib rather enigmatic. So now we've had the individual mugshots, how about panning back so we can view the whole Big Clucker House and its environs?
slipping up a bit
[Boolbar] Sorry, I realised after I posted that you are the technical chief who enables the picture viewing. My camera positioning instructions should have been directed at Bob the Dog, the producer of the show.
Long distance chickcheck
Chalky] Acknowledged. As Boolbar says, I'm not at home at the moment, but I will try to upload a floor plan and more photos. Saskia is looking after the chickens while I'm away, she says they are being very good girls. No eggs yet. I'm not worried about the lack of eggs because the chooks are still very young and need to settle in a bit more. However, Penelope is looking particularly perky and her wattle appears to be turning red. Whatever that means.
wattling daubs
I know *exactly* what it means but I'm darned if I'm telling you.
a toast
[pen] Many congrats, both on your chicken namesaking and the promotion. I suggest you ask prospective employees one of two questions. 1) Would they straddle or strile in a half closed farkle situation if blue tokens were wild?, and 2) What's a good rhyme for "chihuahua"?
None
[blamelewis] Ah, the old trick question! [Hidden Text]You can't have a half closed farkle situation when blue tokens are wild, unless the blue tokens became wild after the half closed farkle situation arose. In this second case both straddles and striles are impossible until the farkle is fully closed. See Ackerman's thesis on half-closed farkles, a good bed-time read.[/Hidden Text]
None
F*ck. I would have fallen for that one.
Cickcheck
Day 9: Flerdle has grown in my absence and is now bigger than Penelope. Lib and Pen are probably about the same size now. Chickens were freaked out by a glider that went over our house, Pen making a dash for cover whilst Lib and flerdle tilted their heads this way and that in an endearingly quizzical fashion. All chicken eating well, they seem to like carrot - fed them the dried head of a sunflower yesterday - but they didn't really get the hang of it and the seeds had to be pulled out for them. At about nine o'clock, they tramped up their little ramp and waited for me to lock the pop-hole. They are such good girls!
Day 10: Still no eggs. Estimated (with help of a calendar) that first egg may appear on 26th August (Day 21), although a friend of mine suggests that they won’t really get going until mid Sept. I am very busy at the moment, but I will try and draw up a plan of living quarters and maybe upload it to a Big Clucker website (which for me is a big step, never having done anything more adventurous with HTML than this!) Looking for reasonably priced no-ad site host. Any suggestions?
chuckyweb
There are several sites like this one which try to recommend free site hosts. As they say, free sites usually come with little or no help and most have annoying adverts/pop-ups. I've used Vispa for 2 years now and have had no problems (except in the first week when they were down for a day). Their on-line help was adequate for my needs. There must be many other free ad-free site hosts out there, some of which may allow you to have your own webby addy (like www.bigclucker.com instead of www.bigclucker.isphostname.com).
Slooooowwww....
BTW, is it generally half-slow on the internet today - I can't get into MCiOS or eBay (due to timeouts) but this site is speedy.
None
. . . and no sooner do I type that, when MCiOS springs back into view. eBay is still way too slow though.
Again!
Ebay is now OK. Hmmm, it seems the moment I post something here, it ceases to be true.
Gosh, I am lacking in money.
living on air
Glad flerdle is doing so well. Have been at home sick for last two days, able to do a little work remotely, but generally bleurgh. *totters back to bed for a while*
sickbay
*sends flerdle a mug of virtual hot chocolate and best wishes for a speedy recovery*
Hennery
It seems to me that after all this chicken related discussion, this should be renamed the Bantam Page!
Eggstraordinary
crack'd
[Rab] How complimentary to have one's ideas confirmed as good ones prior to having them!
Reasonable, ad-free hosting
[BtD] I think I could probably be persuaded quite easily.
None
Although image-heavy pages (like the one blob presented) would probably kill my connection quite quickly, so somewhere with more bandwidth might be better.
Bantam?
[Thos, rab] "Sorry, old man, we don't understand your bantam!"
Blowing trumpets
For the second time, Dujon has hit the high point of Celbdaq - don't worry, fans, at 0600 BST this will change. Disappears back into left field chanting "percentages, money, percentages ..."
None
Have made a surprising discovery. Chickens love grapes. And porridge. Not mixed.
oooooh, hot chocolate!
[pen] Thanks, much appreciated. Am still not well, and not particularly enheartened by a visitor yesterday saying "Oh, I had that for six weeks" :-o

But that didn't stop me from going to the football today (my second AFL match, and why complain when someone shouts you? Just rug up warm); hopefully some really nice photos... telephoto gooooooood.

Few words
Sorry folks. Mini Cheddars. Bit confused. Two words? Really, penelope. Wrong game!
Oof!
I've been kneecapped!
Chopping
[rab] You and several others by the looks of it. Bravo all. I'm finding it tough to make any headway this time round, but I'm not bitter . . .
But what about the chooks?
Ooooh, strawberries have started to come into season here! Yay!!!
[penelope] I don't see the problem there. Oh, and your hot chocolate remedy works a treat.
I'm back!
...and looking forward to regular posting!
Advance notice
I've just ordered new disks, one of which is for the web server. At the same time as moving to a new disk, I'll be taking the opportunity to upgrade to newer versions of the OS and web server.

This is the first of 3 or 4 planned outages during the remainder of this year, and will incur the largest downtime - I hope to keep it under 24 hours but promise nothing. If anyone has a problem with the machine being down on a particular day this week, let me know, either here, or by email to an address that should be fairly obvious. If I don't forget entirely, I'll point out the cause for outage at MCiOS and/or Orange at the time.

As an aside, the other planned upgrades are: a UPS, more RAM, and yet another disk.

On another note entirely; Rab - it's really quite annoying that the HTML checker insists on apostrophe pairs inside title="". Still, I guess that's what &apos; is for; I'm giving up my contractions for nothing or no-one. Nothing or no-one!

Indeed
[Nik] Point taken - I'll have a look at the HTML checker and see if I can get it doing something more sensible viz the quotes. Will you be upgrading MySQL too? Not that - I think - I need any of the features of the newer version when I finally upgrade, but just curious.
Also...
[Nik] Obviously if you drop me a line indicating when it'll go down, I'll arrange for a backup to be made of the game data at that point. I'm away for the bank holiday weekend, but with sufficient warning can set up a cron job to do the business, so it's irrelevant really.
Calm down!
What are you saying, like? Don't trust me to not destroy all the data, like? Eh? Eh? A benefit of switching disks and installing fresh is that the current disk won't be modified at all during the process, so data should be safe, although I'll be dumping /etc, /home, /var and /usr to CD anyway (a slightly neater variation of which will become a weekly backup to CDRW). I might go to Apache 2 and Mysql 4; I'll have a look at their feature lists and see if it's worth the risk.
Just A Minute - 2003-Aug-11
In a complete change of subject, did anyone catch last week's Just A Minute? What the hell were they saying about celebrity colonic irrigations?
JAM Last Week
[Dr Q] Which bit? "I'm A Celebrity, Get It Out Of Here"?
Getting Nik's back up
[Nik] Well - I didn't anticipate any loss of data but I never thought having too many backups was ever a problem! I'm using MySQL 4.0.12 here without difficulties. The main bonus is subqueries (not that I use these at the moment) but there is a slight difference in the way certain priveliges work, so you might find yourself saddled with some additional admin overhead if you were to upgrade. I know nothing of apache 2 - last I heard it was "experimental" which I understand to be a euphemism for "best avoided".
Toxic celebs
[DrQ] The JAM reference: IIRC, around the time of the Aussie Jungle Japes, a group of D list celebs 'volunteered' [paid obscene amounts of money] to go abroad for a filmed Celebrity Detox Week [Ch4?]. Along with most of the viewing nation, I didn't watch it but in an effort to generate interest, the red top coverage glorified in the contents of alleged celebs bowels after CI. I'm told it was a load of sh*te and believe none of them have worked since.
Ding! Dong!
The disks is here! Expect angrycake.com to fall off the world in approximately not too long.
*pulls the big red shutdown lever*
Right I'll close the games so as not to confuse everyone...
*yanks big red lever*
*big red lever clatters to floor*

*ACME Maintenance Squad drives off faster than you can say 'Spare any change?'*

*proffers new red lever*
What cowboy did this, eh? Me you say??
Good to be back
As you can see I've tightened a few screws here and there. If you notice any bugs, tell me.
Woo-hoo!
Our long international nightmare is over -- MC5 is back! Well done, rab & Nik.
Minor layout bug
[rab] See Mini Cheddars for an example -- the last word before an <hr> gets right-shifted.
Oh
Not on my browser it doesn't... probably just a small tweakette required somewhere. ETF March 37th 2008.
grrr
It was justified text wot woz doing it. Now disabled which is a shame cos where it worked I quite liked it.
Jubilation
Welcome back, Rab!
It's back! It's new improved bluey whiteness! Horrah!
Layout bug
It was doing it on mine (Mozilla Firebird 0.6/Linux), which turned out to be a pain because I'm running it at 1600x1200 with small fonts, which required me to shift my eyes a relatively long distance....
Aye, Cone
[rab] Nice new look - particularly fond of the "Stance" heading (Len Ganley, anyone?). I'm afraid I find the icons a little murky, though... there doesn't seem to be enough contrast between the grey background and the ochre/blue foreground. Indeed, I cannot distinguish them at all using peripheral vision (which slows down mouse navigation). Maybe this looks better on your PowerBook LCD, but on my PC CRT it looks grey and blobby (haven't connected my iBook to the net for four days, so don't know how it looks there).
Bluey whiteness
Yea! Its back and its prettier! Well done all concerned.

Current score:
Penelope: 3 eggs
flerdle: 1 egg
Lib: 1 egg

What a fantastic start there from Penelope.
hmmmm
I actually find this font slower to read. Just so you know.
ooooh
It seems to look different at work... hmmmm
Hokey-cokey
[Dunx] I agree with you about the murkiness of the icons. They were designed in a dark room on an LCD display, and I'm looking at them on a CRT right now. I might apply some transformations to them later.

[flerdle] I used to use your browser default font, but now have requested a sans-serif one. In principle you can override it, but in practice it might be more sensible to go back to the browser default.

[all] Keep your opinions rolling in.

New look
Love the refit - although I agree with Dunx that the buttons are murky. But a really nice feel to the site now.
[rab] Well, the buttons look better on my iBook screen! Something I will certainly need to remember next time I do some graphic design work... there is something in the OSX settings panel somewhere to change the colour balance to match that of a CRT; don't know if that would help.
Chook update
Penelope: 4
flerdle: 1
Lib: 1

Go for it Penelope! (Perhaps it was the promotion wot done it).
Henquiry
How can you tell who laid which egg?
design
Very nice, although the transparencies still aren't displaying properly under IE.
Transparently
[Projoy] That's not my fault. OK, so it is my fault that I insist on using those new-fangled PNGs rather than the old-school GIFs. I think I know of a workaround, but will be fiddly to apply.
Hey! It's working!
I'm sitting in the kitchen, with not a wire in sight, posting this. Hurrah!
Range
[rab] Sounds like you get better range than I do/did. What base station are you using?
Big range in the kitchen
[Dunx] I suspect it's because I live in a smaller house than you do :) For the record it's a LinkSys Wireless Ether-G, or similar (the one that's a four-port ethernet hub and a wireless access point). It's in the next room, I would guess about 10m, with a wall and a half in between.
Four bars, though, even on a Titanium-clad patlop.
Titanium-clad patlop
Would you like to borrow my NS4 compatibility dandelion for that?
Egg Identity
Boolbar] Two ways to identify egg layers - a sensitive art!
1. We know that a chicken is about to lay because she gets all busy looking for somewhere to go. They lay inside the chicken house ('cos they like privacy) so we see them go in. The only confusion could occur if they lay at night or if we get flerdle and Lib mixed up.
2. Egg colour. As a chicken gets into laying, her first eggs will be small and pale. Libs, being the last to start are small and light brown and flerdles are medium and tan. Pen, being a different variety, lays speckly eggs.
font fickleness
[rab] What font are you using? I wonder why it looks different at work. I've worked out what the trouble with speed of reading is - the letters in this font are quite crowded (upright strokes are close together, and overall the space between letters is small) and rounded letters like p, g, u, d are quite large, in comparison, and quite squarish, which makes them more difficult to distinguish quickly. I'm not advocating a return to serif, just noticing things about whatever it is you've chosen. I will cope.
Font affront
[flerdle] I ask for 'sans-serif'. You may be able to change your browser's default sans-serif font. I could specify 'helvetica' which might make more sense, but I'd need to check my CSS book (which is at home) to find out how to do it properly.
The Great Egg Race
Lovely. I've just had me summer holidays - two days in Lincs with my Mum. I'm back home, there was a queue on the M25 and it's raining. What's worse, now I have to empty the vacuum cleaner with all the sucked-up spiders in it. :o(
Love nest
[penelope] Tricky. One could imagine them all jumbled up inside the cylinder and thinking 'as we're stuck in here for a while - why not?' - then mating like fury so when you do the emptying bit, a whole new generation of spiderlets bent on evil revenge, burst forth with the taunting cry 'ner ner ne ner ner' . . .
[pen] More likely the spiders nuked it out and ate one another so now there is one single spider left - a very LARGE spider with LONG legs.
'racnids
Pen] Just stick 'em in a bag and send 'em to me. Chickens love spiders. And woodlice.
Re: Font. I dunno about anyone else but I like this font more than the previous one.
the lesser of two weevils
[BtD] I would gladly send you all my spiders. For some reason (too embarrassig to go into here... well OK, he was a boyfriend of mine a long, long time ago), we 've always called woodlice 'jonathans'. And I have lots under all the plant pots in the garden. Can I borrow your chickens for a couple of days?
Guess what time it is?
Having decided to not rebuild the server again, I'll be taking it down for ten minutes later (this evening, tomorrow, never) to figure out what sort of RAM I need, and also to take out the old disk and screw the new one in. This process should be painless, requiring no software changes at all.
While I remember
I'm going away tomorrow (Sun 31st) for just under a fortnight. I may have sporadic connectivity from there but one can't really rely on it.
Have a good one. I'll try not to ruin everything in the mean time.
Celebdaq Update
Congrats in advance to Uncle Korky for his upcoming first kneecapping.

Ahnold is now over £200/share with no end in sight. Even Becks couldn't top that.
Spiders
[penelope] But why did you suck them up in the first place? Spiders are on our side!
Boris
[Breadmaster] I embarked on a spider-killing spree after being dumped. It seemed like a good idea at the time.
Arachnids
penelope you are CRUEL,
I am sure that flerdle will back me up here - I get spiders in the house, in summertime mainly, which are 6" to 8" across the legs and varied in body size - some are an inch or two. Whilst I detest spiders - in fact the larger ones give me the heebie jeebies - I catch them and toss them outside. So, in future, behave yourself! "Four legs is better than two..." or was that something else? ... :-)
Hairy legs
[Dujon] Sounds like you've got some Huntsmans. Huntsmen. Whatever. Greeaat big black hairy ones. I've only seen them to about 4 to 5 inches across, managed to trap one in the bathroom at a former house under a plastic container - the tok of it against the sides was fairly alarming, and spiders don't really worry me. I put it outside.

[Dujon, again] Are you in Sydney?

Why I ask, is...
Cross-posting alert to people south of the equator: See "To be a Pilgrim" here.
spiders
Having Charlotte's Web read to me at a young age has led to a life-long, well, liking if not loving of spiders; so long as they're on their webs I don't really mind. We had one on the inside of our kitchen window and we put up a sign and my mother insisted on calling it Fred. A stupid lodger murdered it in an overly helpful cleaning frenzy, which also involved her throwing out numerous useful items..
It is back
Have not been able to access this site due to very slow (interrupted) download. Anyone else had this problem?
Dujon/flerdle] Chickens would probably love big spiders too. Would they travel well by air?
Pen] Saskia reminded me of something I've now put in 'The Beige Allegro'. Ring any bells?
hrmmm
Probably illegal to export them. You'll just have to selectively breed some over there, I think. Or send your chickens on holidays.
Eight-legged friends
I believe that the huge hairy ones that occasionally hurtle across the living room carpet are called "Wolf Spiders". I really like them and always leave them alone, because they keep the place clean and are rather cute. It may be an urban myth, but I heard that their venom is actually poisonous enough to kill you, but their jaws are too weak to bite through your skin, so they're harmless (unless you let them bite you on a wound, of course). Could this really be true?
Wolfspiderman
Breadmaster] I've never heard that one, but my Dad has been bitten by Wolfspiders many times. He claims it is akin to an ant bite. Congrats on your publication by the way.
Huuuuuuuuge
It seems difficult to get information about the precise toxicology of the spider venom. Or I'm not looking hard enough. No matter. A factsheet about huntsman spiders is here: huntsman. I think up here we tend to call all large black spiders "huntsman" spiders. A factsheet about Australian wolf spiders is here: wolf. The legs seem quite different, and huntsman spiders seem to be larger.
Why can I never prevent myself looking at pages about spiders? I'm going to be creeped out and itchy for hours, now.
Miss Tuffett
There are also Harvestmen which look like spiders but aren't... they're the really skinny, ethereal- and anorexic-looking things.
Cheers to Dr Q with regards to my minor success in Celebdaq. Now I fully understand what happens on a kneecapping. Call me naive, but I never realised that they took all of your existing shares away and you had to start form scratch again. Hmmm... well, as you can imagine, that was a bit of a surprise... On the up-side, I've now got a lovely green wad next to my name. On the downside, I had oodles of Arnie...
When I got kneecapped the first time, I got instantly bored and stopped doing anything on Celebdaq. But that's just me.
celebdaq
I am number one, I am number one, I am number one..(again). I would like to thank Mick Jagger and Stella McCartney for aiding me, (and others for getting kneecapped.) MWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
*peep*
We want more chicken photos!
Chickflicks and goodbooze
fl] Sorry - I have been very busy recently + I still use non-digital technology. Will do what I can. Just to say that the Chickens are thriving, lots of eggs (gorgeous yellow yolks). flerdle made a bid for freedom recently in desperation as she attempted to get at her porridge. When the garden vegetables have stopped and I've dug the ground (late September) I will let the chickens have completely free-range. They will dine on slugs eggs, centipedes, leatherjackets and other destructive pests, fertilising the ground as they go.
Continuing in the Good-Life tradition, I recently tried brewing Honey Beer to an C18 recipe (the chickens ate the mashed hops). It has a 2nd fermentation in the bottle and so every so often there is an explosion in the pantry as a cork pops out. This is no bad thing as I can have a little sip to see how it is progressing. My God it is strong. It is almost revolting, but oddly, once tasted it leaves you wanting more. Probably needs time. Has anyone got any recipes I can use it in if it turns out to be crap?
Honey Beer Gone Wrong
[BtD] I understand that once gone wrong, Honey Beer makes an excellent nappy soaker, paint stripper and fingerprint remover (that's removing fingerprints from your fingers, not from surfaces). I'd wear marigolds if I was you.
celebdaq
I'm still rolling along on the Ahnold bandwagon...right along side the Madonna/Britney Dividend Express. :)
Calling in from Ambleside
This is some really weird font here. Me no understand. Must sort out my CSS on the return. The school is going well but I need to return to listen to a guy from Sunderland explain density functional theory. More dispatches later. ttfn, rab.
Chickens
[Btd] Our neighbour has decided to install some chickens, too. He was banging and sawing pretty much continuously last weekend (while we were unboxing all our gear) and now there are gentle warbly chicken noises coming from his garden. No rooster, fortunately.
chick-chicks
Isn't it odd your neighbour didn't mention it before? "Oh, by the way, I'm getting chickens too!" I don't know, it just seems slightly odd to me.
bok bok bok
[rab] See! See! Not just me
[snorgle] You'll find it was Bob the dog who's Chicken Man.
I currently live in what would be classed as "inner city" (20min walk to the middle of the CBD), but it's quite low density still - blocks of units, but many individual houses. We really only have one person-neighbour (going anticlockwise: church, multistorey carpark, cliff and shop, more shops, neighbour in large house). Some friends have kept chooks (complete with renovated gardens for same), and I did hear about someone with a sheep, up in the hill just a little over. They used to take it for walks, on a leash.
[snorgle] Not really - we were moving in while the chicken coop was being built, so I suspect the decision must have been made a good while before we could ever have met the neighbours concerned.
We seem to have lost Thraxwhirl from the realms of the Celebdaq league...
f**k-a-doodle-do
[Roosters] One of my lovely neighbours has roosters, introduced a couple of years after we moved in. His attitude is "if you don't like it, move" but said in a more unpolite way.
bleary mornings
[Boolbar] Gun with silencer?
[flerdle] That's a good idea. But what about the roosters?
Dunx - chickens
whoops! I wasn't paying attention, and I'm awful at names - I often have to read back in books to check who is who again. We get quite a lot of horses running wild near me as there is a traveller site not far away. The local paper ran an article where a Belfast man now living in the area said he wanted to move back to the Garvaghey Road in Belfast as he felt it was safer, because his garden was constantly invaded by wild horses. Bit of an over-reaction, if you ask me. He said the police wouldn't help once they were on his property. I can't help but wonder if reporting the horses to a horse welfare society might be more likely to get a reply. He could say that they were in danger, and not just from him! (they do gallop all over the roads..).
Rooster booster
I have noticed that the gentle warbly chicken noises you get from hens has an oddly soporific effect. I have considered recording it to sell as a new-age aid to meditation…(Page goes all shimmery)
Are you stressed, anxious or hyper-tense? Why not try Bob the dog’s natural free-range homeopatic massage emporium! Yes! You too can experience deep massage set to the natural sound of real organic chickens. And for that full holistic experience, why not try the gentle scouring action of a detox colonic irrigation using the purest natural Honey Beer? Guaranteed to remove lethargy. Guaranteed to remove sensation.
honeytrap
Oh dear . . . every time the phrase 'Honey Beer' pops up on this page, I can't help but think of a porn star [y'know - add the name of your first pet to your mother's maiden ... etc etc].
Top Billing
[Chalky] Dusty Jaines. eeeek
Best girl's name ever come across in the course of my work (according to a male colleague...) Stella Foster
Comotose
[BtD] I'm with you, my friend. I do not have the pleasure at the moment, but a quiet Sunday afternoon with blue skies and chickens/hens going about their business is a most wonderful dream. Of course, if penelope's Stella Foster was in attendance - or either of them, actually - it would make the experience even more fulfilling. ;-)
Rev Canaan Banana
add the name of your first pet to your mother's maiden to make the name of a porn star? Mmm, I doubt that Snuffy Mander would be very popular. As for odd real names, I once heard of a Basil Crapster.
Khala Lamb
... hmm... not really.

and Beryl's would be Peter Ridge, most uninteresting.

One of my school/student friends was called Michel Joseph Thomas LeBlond de Tedesco. And he insisted on giving his full name on all official forms. I remember the Inland Revenue once sent him a post-reply form asking "Is Michel Joseph Thomas LeBlond de Tedesco one person or two?", to which he answered in the reply section "Yes." - and, strangely, they never followed it up.

a.k.a. Gigi Coates
Shouldn't really draw attention [because I've been contributing] but The Facial Nightwear Game don't 'arf crack me up. I really do LOL.
more wine please
Congrats to snorgle at No1 on Celeb MC. Unfortunately snorgle I wasn't around the last two weeks, so when I get round to it there will be a small break in the tables.
Ooops!
[Inkspot] Oh yes. Someone was meant to be screen saving those tables . . . . .
overcooked celebs
It's such a waste - hitting the million mark on a Tuesday - just after kneecap day and with a whole week to pick up dividends and do . . . well, nothing. Mind you, if Arnie's share price plummets unexpectedly, I could easily summon up some enthusiasm and check my portfolio - but that is unlikely, now some bozo has chucked an egg at him and he's picking up half page features in 'The Times'.
font
Is it just me or has the font changed? It's gone a diet and is all squished up!
fount
[snorgle] it's not just you.
Knowledge
Flerdle, how are you chook?

Regarding your RSVP apropos a pilge in Sydney: Regrettably I shall be unable to attend such a bacchanal - I live some 75Km west from 'The Bridge' and work 7 days a week. Should people (?) be prepared to come out here to the 'sticks' I could probably free up the odd hour or two - but it'd have to be pretty close to home base. ... :-(
A font by any other name ...
I run reasonably high resolution on my monitor (1280 x 1024) and it's pretty big and 'blocky'. What it must look like on a lesser resolution I shudder to thing. (Sorry, only being constructive) ...... Heads for the coop in the fond hope that he's not laid an egg!
Fumbles
'thing' s/b 'think'
Better?
[Font] Is that better? I don't see why the IE default sans-serif font should be so grim. I assumed that not being too specific about the font would be helpful, as it would allow people an element of customisation. The trouble is it seems that (on this version of IE at least, or the way it's been set up for public use) there's no way to change the default fonts, so you're stuck with something MS thinks is kewl.

There are two further ways that one, and only one, browser gets this totally wrong. (Can you tell which one it is yet?) Firstly it refuses to acknowledge the button backgrounds of the buttons are transparent. It also fails to put a border around the page. The latter is hardly a disgrace, but the former is very irritating. I will try and sort this out when I escape Ambleside, as well as doing the demurkation.

Meanwhile... crikee! This is the first chance I've had to sit down and catch my breath since last Sunday evening. Each day follows quite a harsh routine, with lectures from 9 til 12.30. Then in the afternoons we run up some hills to try and prevent the three-course-meal waistlines expanding too ridiculously before another lecture and a tutorial which is the point where I field questions about subjects I last learnt about four years ago when I was a student at the very same school. After dinner there can be a talk (one of which I gave) before running to the nearest pub and downing four pints of beer.

So today I've caught up on my sleep. Weather permitting I'll be doing a big walk tomorrow, and then it starts all over again for another week... It's fun, but I haven't been so tired since, um, about four years ago when I was a student at the very same school. (Err... we got that bit -- Ed.)

font
It's back the way it was now, anyway. Nice stream of consciousness there, Rab!
no change, actually.
[rab] Glad you're getting so much exercise :-)
The text in the Name and Apropos boxes is different to that in the final display, and that in the Stance box is serif. I think I'm just going to have to live with it.

[Dujon] What a shame. Dunno about a "baccanal" though - if we could ever get our act together, at most it would be four of us (and any surprise unknowns), and I don't drink much! It's been settled, I'm heading down thataway in the first weekend in October, but won't have a car, so I can't make it up the hill, as it were. I'm mainly going to be in Dapto visiting a friend (err... whee?). Ah, well, at least I tried. I might return to the area before January, but am really unsure about that.

Whatever happened to...
!York? I have been cast into the wilderness since its unceremonious demise. Am I back on track here?
Welcome Back Tujmeister!!!!!!
!York went the way of the Dodi back in February. A mysterious entity named called "Mordac" is apparently going to set it up again at some point; as for now, everyone's migrated to here, Orange or MCiOS. YAMCS is also kaput

Anyway, welcome back, and here's hoping you're back for some non-stop hot MC thrill-seeking :)

Tuj!
Welcome back Tuj! Hope you enjoy the new look of MC.
[rab] I'm using IE6 and the border is there, the buttons have transparent backgrounds, and the font was fine even when everyone said it wasn't.
[Tuj] Horrah! You're back!
Celebdaq update
Ahnold's incredible rise has tapered off, but, in his words... "I keep coming and coming; I'm coming all the time!"

Tuj!!
Welcome back - long gap but glad you are back. This site has sort of filled the !York gap for me.
Arty-farty
Hello. There's probably not much point telling you about this as the exhibition finished today (sob!) but nevertheless.... On saturday I wandered to Liverpool to go to the Tate gallery there. There was an exhibition on by Janet Cardiff which was truly mindblowing. Is a little bit difficult to explain but it was an audio thing. Thomas Tallis wrote a 40 part motet (unaccmopanied song for 8 choirs of 5 voices each) and Ms Cardiff has recorded this on 40 microphones and it is played through 40 speakers at head height around the edge of the room. So you stand in the middle and get the full picture and then can wander round the room listening to each part. It is wonderful! I'm sure it'll go on to other galleries, so look out for it!
Well, nice to be recognised...
Mordac... sounds Arthurian. As I regrounded here I'll probably stay, having not really got into Orange, MCiOS etc. Let the games begin!
40 part motet
[Lib] Yes - I raved about this in another place back in April. I believe it's going to be at the Whitechapel Gallery, or some such, very soon, and I concur - go see it!
[Tuj] His full name is Mordac the Preventer, and he may or may not be a figment of Simons Mith's imagination...
Spem
I have several times performed the Tallis in the round - that is, with the eight choirs surrounding the audience. Only then do you get the full sense of the way the music travels through the performers - sometimes working its way round the circle, sometimes bouncing back from side to side. It is a work of the most astounding technical virtuosity - the forty parts are all truly different and independent, yet the resulting complex is very, very nearly entirely free of parallel fifths (a sort of technical shibboleth in Renaissance music) (we found one once, but I can't now recall where it is!). It is said that the piece was conceived to be performed in an octagonal tower in the (long-vanished) Nonsuch Palace, with a choir in a gallery on each side of the tower. (One quibble with the Tate website's description - Spem is hardly a piece of secular music ...)
Spem, Spem, Spem, Spem...
[Wol] Do you, like all other singers of my acquaintance, derive enormous and, for once, highly justified amusement from its name?
Spam in Aluminium
Wol Breadmaster] I have no idea what you mean ;o) In my artstudent days I composed a piece of music for four suspended washing machine shells. I wired them up with loudspeakers and played through music composed using recorded church bells heavily distorted by volume so that they resonated as they swung. The piece was divided into four movements which progressed from shell to shell. The idea came from a play on the word cycle.
[BtD] Wring Out The Bells?
Wonderful ...
What is it with singers and their puerile witticisms? Sometimes I think all those jokes about sopranos are justified! (Q: How do you put a sparkle in a soprano's eye? A: shine a torch in her ear ...) Sperm in Ovum; Lo, the Full Frontal Sacrifice; O Slap your Glands Together; I mean, they're just not funny, are they? </snigger>
Watty, re: Mordac] I can see nothing's changed around here then!
Report
[Boolbar] This means I can now officially support those versions of IE on which this page works properly. Which is probably some sort of oxymoron or something.
IE6
For the record, this page has always worked fine on my IE6 too.
IE6 et al
Same for me, also in Safari.
IE6? Feh.
No apparent changes on Mozilla Firebird/Linux.
Old MacDonald had a farm, IE IE 6
With a woof-woof here too. I've just been having a cool glass of my Honey Beer. Why has this page gone all woozy? Your my blest frwend you are . . . . . . .
Change any subject you don't understand, just like BtD did...
Is it me, or are there pretty much two games of face PJs going on here? Yon Centurion Three has a distinct flavour of it. See you've finally got round to shoving all those cryptic crossword clues somewhere ;)
I forgot to put deodorant on again this morning. Is this what being a busy manager is all about? *whiffs*
me too!
[pen] AArgh, I've done it too! Thanks for reminding me as I'm still in the building where I live so can rectify the situation (and my next port of call is likely to be a changing room at one of the clothing outlets in the monstrosity of the Trafford Centre, so you've reminded me just in time!). *phew! Lib breathes a sigh of relief and mentally appreciates Pen's managerial skills*
Academia
The notion of deodorant is academic given my lingering state of insobriety hanging over from last night. Oh dear. One day I will grow up. The amusing thing is, of course, is that I'm about to give a tutorial.
Odourising Trafford
[Lib] Surely being stinky (sorry, 'glowing', or whatever is you female sorts do) around the Trafford Centre is the best way to assure yourself of not being squeezed to death? Oh, but how I hate that place.

Hm. Three (any more?) of us in the Manchester area - the stuff of a micro-alterna-pilg. And there's a Mornington Crescent to boot (photos of which I never did get developed, and as such are probably degraded beyond use now).

The area
I believe _tim_ and JLE reside in these parts, though I haven't seen the former around for a while. Hangover just about gone now. What a day...
More Magic
After a week wallowing in the bowels of the Celebdaq mini-league and a trip to Britany I have managed to climb on top of snorgle to No1, for this I'd like to thank David Blaine. Can gil get there next, after I've been kneecapped?
Now that Arnie is dropping I hope that Darren and Graham III will return to the fray.
Manc-y-ness
[Manchester] Yay! Lets have a Manchester Pilg! Yay!

[Trafford centre] Had a v good shopping spree and the Trafford centre was surprisingly quiet (although I did wonder whether there was a by-law stating that EVERYONE must be pushing a pram), but I had a nasty experience. Whilst trying on a top I somehow managed to get poked in the eye with the clothes label (the cardboard one). I found this rather surprising as I wear glasses and had my eyes shut. Anyway it hurt and I cried. I pulled myself together and got on with my shopping. 12 hours later its still very sore, so I've just meandered down to A&E and got some drops, don't seem to help much though. *Lib saunters off, feeling slightly silly that such a small injury causes her so much grief*

[Lib] I once managed to scratch my cornea with an overhead projector. Don't ask...
Mini-Burgers
Looking at the most recent Mini Cheddar I'm reminded of something known as the "Noisy Burgers Equation".
Eye too
Lib/CdM] One speck of lime fell into my eye from a badly rendered ceiling once. I have never experienced pain like it. Once in hospital a well-meaning nurse gave me a routine eye sight test despite the fact that I couldn't even open the affected eye. My good eye was so full of tears that I couldn't see the A at the top of the card. She told me that I needed glasses. Logical I suppose. Get better soon Lib - in my experience the drops do help - eventually. If it is any consolation, your namesake has just laid a fabulous egg. Her eyes probably watered a bit too.
Eye's to the Right!
[BtD] Glad Lib's laying well, it is rather exciting to have a namesake! And you'll all be relieved to know that my eye is feeling lots better tonight.
forgetful
And thanks for the sympathy! It worked wonders!
Eyiiiiiieee
[Eye] I have a small tear in my cornea. If my eye dried out overnight (central heating, restless night, alcohol) then when opening that eye in the morning the lid would pull on the tear making it worse. I couldn't face any change in light intensity for a couple of hours without the feeling of a sharp needle in the eye. Liquid tears for the best part of a year did the trick. NEVER use eye cleaners like Optrex though. How did I do it? Would you believe a poke in the eye from a sharp stick?
Trust me, I'm sort of a...
[Boolbar] Recurrent corneal erosion, if you want a name for that; not uncommon, and as another of our correspondants will tell you, v painful. Artificial tears (lubricants), preferably unpreserved, used regularly, are really the only thing that helps.

[Lib] Get thee to someone with a decent slit-lamp biomicroscope :-) So cool, eyes seen really close... but you're probably fine by now. Owwww, anyway.

[BtD] Lime and other caustic burns can be REALLY bad. *shudders* (oh, and if anyone was wondering about first aid for them, force the person's eyes open and wash wash wash. Oh, and wash. Forget about those piddly little bottles of eyewash, shove their head under a tap/hose/shower. Stay there for 20 minutes, the caustic action keeps working even if you've apparently flushed it all out.)

Oh, and another thing - heed the warnings on eye drops to discard after opening (unpreserved) or a month after opening (preserved). Trust me, I *know*.

err... and when I said "force"...
... I meant, gently hold. but make sure the eye is open. They will thank you later. Honest. *resists posting pictures of what can happen if you don't*
[flerdle] Ta for the name. The only fun part of it was visiting the Doctors who shoved some fluorescent dye in my eye to see what was going on. I had green glowing eyes for the next hour.
Fun dyeing
Oh yeah, that stuff is fun, and it stains clothing wonderfully. If you blow your nose, your sn... anyway, fluorescein (the dye) also glows under UV light. Something not to mix with contact lenses, because they absorb it.
Glow in the dark eyeballs
flerdle] Even more reason to do it - especially as halloween is just around the cornea (waak waak).
Severe eye injury
I just suffered one right now -- I brought up www.bbc.co.uk and right there was Laurence Llewelyn-Bowen. My retinas decomposed immediately in defense....
Concrete Evidence
[Boolbar] Being the other correspondent which flerdle speaks of, I can agree that it's bloody painful. The offending item was a corner of a piece of concrete board, and so I agree with flerdle that there was a good chance of there being some nice cuastic damage there too. It's been fifteen months, and I'm getting less frequent and less severe pain now, but still... I'd really rather not have to deal with it.

One unexpected benefit of our new house is that because it has aircon, we have no need to run fans in the windows and so I no longer sleep in a breeze which stops my eye drying out so much.

Top tip: drink water before going to bed, then some more after you've been to the loo in the night.

Manchester Pilg
"Manchester will celebrate a Europe-wide transport initiative - In Town Without My Car Day - on Sunday when part of Deansgate will be closed to traffic." This seems just the sort of thing to stagger around drunk during. Anyone? I can be in town between around 12:15 and 21:00.
Well, sort of without
Is one fully participating in this pedestrian and velocipedic celebration if one drives most of the way to town and then proceeds on foot? How much walking distance does it take to cancel out the sin of driving?
car-free day
[Nik] I wonder if someone will go mad and drive through the ribbon? :)
Angry Cake Walk
Aha ! Further to discussions in the Lock Cup, I googled mc5 and discovered the angrycake link - the rab.org one don't work no more.
blob
Hello! waves
Walking and rabbiting
[Nik] I would love to join you but am flying off to Dresden on Sunday morning. [Blob] It does you know, you're probably trying to go to the wrong place: http://www.rab.org.uk/mc/ redirects you here.
Blaine baiting
snorgle it looks as if my prediction of last week was out and gil ran out of steam. But I see that rab your playing the long game with a couple of slow burners.
But the League is nicely poised for some upsets tomorrow's divi payout especially from Dujon who got the jump on me buying the same stock but an hour or two earlier.
Momentary outage
(Where 'momentary' is defined as 'any period of a few minutes or so'). That was meant to happen. I finally got around to removing the old disk completely. Much quieter without it, and the various bits screwed back on. There's still going to be a further outage, for RAM, and RSN, but given my propensity to not do things, that could be days, weeks, or aeons.
Outreach
[Nik] I don't spect anyone else noticed. I got a range of Awuga! Awuga! alerts, which did little but alert me to the fact that these pages deal better with error conditions than I thought. Which is a reason to be cheerful, to those of you who are listening.
Mm, that caused me a bit of a panic. Turns out I'd forgotten to start mysql during boot, though. Whew.
Noticing
I noticed, but only because I couldn't get here for one iteration of my Crescent polling loop. No deaths occurred.
mysqld
[Nik] The message was surprisingly informative :)
Blaming Blaine
[Inkspot] You doing some inside trading? I deliberately traded to get my quids under the £1M mark the previous week - no point in being kneecapped unnecessarily - and hoped for a 100% + weekly run in order to 'earn' two green wads. It worked - fine - but how do people get 500% + ??? I thought I was sitting on top % most of the week! So much to learn, so little time ...
Missed Birthday
I've been away (working!) in Cornwall so I've missed a Birthday. Many Happy Returns Boolbar!
Middle-aged? Who me?
Oddly enough I almost missed it as well.
Bool] 93 is'nt middle aged. Or have I got that wrong?
Yes, you have got it wrong - it should be isn't not is'nt.
I wo'nt make that mistake again!
... although I believe the correct term nowadays is middle youth. I'll look it up once I've found where I left my pipe and slippers.
celebdaq
[Dujon]You're right to blame Blaine - I had about £60000, sunk it all into Blaine at just over £2 a share. The share shot up, and the publicity was massive so I got over £400 thousand in dividends! That's why my percentage was so high, but it's going down now. I'll be kneecapped Monday as I have £1.6 million, so I'm trying to daytrade my £830 thousand dividends to top £2 million by Monday. We'll see how it goes. Blaine is still pretty cheap, so I might sink my £10 thousand into him again..
Away
Although I expect to log on tomorrow sometime, I should warn that I am in Dresden the next two weeks. This will probably make no functional difference, as I think I'll be getting a desk with a puter on it.
Slurring
[Shnorgles] Oil accept that fer moment - good luck an' all = shleepy time nar - the battle of the virus (virii) has been fought; we're in a stand off at this pint (!) in time. ... hic! shee uer layder.
hair of the dog that bit you
Dujon - are you sober yet? ;)
[Dujon] I had to double-check that my name wasn't attached to that; I'm in the middle of my regular saturday afternoon 'see what I put on the internet last night' routine. Thankfully, it seems I restricted my drivel to text messages and phone calls, this week. Mostly talking to people in Pirate, and demanding they do the same, I vaguely remember.
Bright eyed and bushy tailed
Nice to know I'm not the only one, Nik, and thanks for your enquiry, snorgle ... :-) I've spent the last couple of days fighting computer viruses - Urrgh. In the end I re-installed everything on the boot drive and changed my anti-virus program! I was celebrating last night as I was so pleased to back up an running ... sad innit?
pop-ups
[Dujon]Congrats! I am convinced that when I went to download something, but changed my mind, I actually downloaded some kind of spyware or something. This is because I'm getting the same pop-ups again and again, even when I don't have microsoft internet explorer open. I did run a spy-ware remover (it needed 2 goes!), but maybe the website recorded my ip address? Believe it or not, the ads are all for a pop-up remover! One said that there might be spyware on my system, so I should buy their product. AS IF...
pop-off
[Snorgle] You don't need to have your browser open to receive those blasted things but, to the best of my knowledge, you do need to be on-line (though I'm prepared to stand corrected.) They have been a recent phenomenon for me, starting to appear in the last week or two; I just 'x' them. I shall see if my latest virus/firewall combo stops them from appearing - only time will tell.
messenger popups
[snorgle] no, it's not spyware, it's just a new kind of mass-market spam which appears to use Windows Instant Messenger rather than email. (Although I've several times told Instant Messenger not to receive messages, an instruction which it cheerfully ignores.) Feel free to simply delete the messages and ignore them, and if you find a way of suppressing them, please post it here so we can all know ;-)
pop-up hell
I have windows XP at home and ticking the nice firewall check box that goes with the dialup doodah stopped those pop-ups. Sorry, can't help otherwise.
Pop-ups? What are those?
Mozilla Firebird + Linux. Haven't seen a pop-up in almost an entire calendar year. Mind you, it tends to cut down on the usability of cricinfo.com.... :)
pop-up weasels
No, its not the windows messenger spam, because I'm on windows 98. I checked on www.grc.com, and tested for that anyway, and nothing came up. It's got a couple of links to websites selling programs to spam people this way, which is quite interesting. One of them has a page explaining how to turn off your messenger service as well, so I guess they got complaints! I may try firebird..
pop-up-tastic mate
Hmm, I've not seen anything like that. Of course, I use Opera on my computer at home with Win98 or Mozilla and Mandrake, and at work, although I use the browser supplied on the computer (Internet Exploder) I have a crippled version of WinXP (which I have spent a great deal of time and effort crippling - finally, Windows Messenger got the message and pissed off).
not speaking
I've lost my voice - well the interesting part of it anyway. All I'm left with is the raspy bit that makes me sound like Mariella Frostrup but without the knowledge of the arts, or the looks. So right here is the only place I'm going to talk today :o)
Madeupname
I didn't know who Mariella Frostrup was so I googled her and found this. Is this what you meant by knowledge of the arts Pen?
[BtD] Yup.
*waves to penelope*
mute
*waves to flerdle and opens mouth as if speaking but no sound comes out*
xwds
Has everyone given up on the crossword game ? Pity if you have - I was enjoying it before I went away on holiday - and then got frozen out of here. Ho hum. Never mind.
sneezy
I think it's going around pen, I'm off today as I only slept 2 hours last night because my damned nose keeps dripping! I hope it wears off for tonight..
Attishoo
[snorgle] You hope it wears off ? Well if you rub it too hard it just might !
Top banana plus
Wahay - I'm no 1. Thanks to Johnnie Vegas. Shame Frank Bruno's not listed.
[penelopeeee] Good to see you back, albeit in trappist mode - which, when you think about it, doesn't really make much difference in here. Did you have a nice break?
[Everyone with missing voices & drippy noses] It's a nasty virus, this early autumn cold - made my mum quite ill.
[Blob] I fear you may have to tempt the experts back into the Vault with some fiendish clues. Haven't had much time lately, besides, I'm only a learner.
breaking up
[Chalky] Lovely, thanks. I'm fitter, browner and wiser than I was before. I was working as a volunteer for the National Trust, something I've done several times before and they seem to like me. I have been asked four times now if I would consider being an assistant project leader and I'm starting to break under the pressure. There's something coming in the post and a nomination form has already been sent off. Whoops. :o)
blob - atishoo
that sounds like a line from a song..
celebdaq'n
Who's Johnnie Vegas, and why am I glad I bought 86000 shares of him when he was under £2/share?
Dive! Dive! Di... no, hang on, never mind.
Mysql failed to start during boot, again, despite me adding the relevant whoojits and doodads. Odd. Still, back again, for a while. Hopefully the new memory won't be flaky.
[DrQ] Johnny Vegas is brilliant, but indescribable (yet not indescribably brilliant, I just can't be bothered).
HAPPY HAPPY!
Hello, I'm smiling lots today. Why? Well, 1) I'm on holiday 2) I found a favourite top that was eaten for a few months by the wardrobe monster and 3) I'm reunited with my laptop (which is more your austin allegro of a model compared to rab's whizzy apple thing, but I do love it dearly) having mistakenly 'Lent' it to my brother a year ago. Has taken me ages though to put the settings back how they should be! But is nice to be reunited with my first (computer) love.
First love
My laptop is at the computer hospital, and I'm bereft without it. Looking around for some other means of distraction, I've discovered a strange kind of primitive "disk" made of sheets of thin white stuff with black markings on them, mimicking words on a screen. I'm not sure what kind of machine I need to read them, as they won't fit in the video, but they're propping the table up very well.
rant about my colds
grrr... I HATE colds! I'm sudafed AND sinex and they're not having any effect. At least the pain-killers work..but I'd rather be at work, feeling reasonable well. That's 2 nights now I've only got about 3 hours sleep.
last rant
er..I'm ON sudafed and sinex obviously, although if I take any more tablets I may turn into one.. :D [BM]Try your visual interface for that format.
codes
[Snorgle] I find decongestants just dry up my membranes, which is exactly the opposite thing you need to happen with a cold - you're snotty because your body is trying to get rid of the infection via mucus. (sorry to those that have just breakfasted.) There's a foolproof remedy for sleep. You need: Olbas Oil, a thick teeshirt, a lemon, a bottle of whisky and some honey. Apply several drops of Olbas Oil around the neck of the teeshirt. You will be sleeping in this tonight. Boil the kettle. Put two generous spoonsful of honey into a large mug, pour on boiling water and stir until the honey dissolves. Squeeze the juice of half a lemon into the mug, and top up with a generous slug of whisky. Breath in the steam and drink the honey, lemon and whisky as hot as you can. Go to bed, wearing the eucalyptus-flavoured teeshirt, and sleep like a baby. Works for me - good luck!
hot toddy
Sounds good to me! I've already been using lemon and honey, as its delicious, but I don't usually drink whisky. I think I may try brandy instead. I'm sure I've got olbas oil around, somewhere under a pile of tissues..
knockout!
[Snorgle] Excellent. I think it's a combination of the steam clearing your tubes immediately before bed, the vitamin C and cleansing action of the lemon om your throat, the soothing of the honey (and it has healing qualities too), the topping up of fluid intake for the night, and of course the immediate knock-out effect of the brandy or whisky which sends you to sleep before you know it. I once gave this to a flatmate who was distressed because she was so uncomfortable with a cough and a cold... she hated the idea but I bullied her into drinking it and within five minutes I heard snoring coming from her room. :o)
Grüsse aus Dresden
Hello from Dresden. I came prepared for vast expanses of brutalist architecture and am pleasantly surprised to find large open spaces, old buildings (the opera house is particularly fine), not to mention fabby restaurants and bars. German cities have a tendancy to be a bit thin-on-the-ground nightlife-wise, but not this one. The conference is going well, although I don't think I'm whoring myself around as much as I should be given that my contract runs out next year. Oh well... [Blob] Re crosswords - I think there's still demand. Once we're back up to full numbers I'm sure things will continue again. And, to be fair, you weren't frozen out, you just lost the URL. Which is not the same thing at all. [Colds] Hmmm... feeling a little funny today in the head and throat department but I am not getting a cold. Oh no.
avant-garde viruses (or is it virii?)
Viruses are stupid. Ok, so they barely register as life forms, but if they did useful or interesting things, then maybe our bodies wouldn't go into overdrive to eject them. They could, for instance, turn our fingernails red, (without pain or swelling) or make our hair go an interesting shade of turquoise, and everything would be fine! But oh no, they have to and reproduce by making us miserable. I say we should ban them until they get their act together!
snooooooooooooooooooooooze..
I'm back in work, as I was able to sleep last night. I don't know if it was the brandy, honey and lemon, or just that the cold is getting better anyway, but I'm happy. I can't function on 3 hours sleep. I probably would have taken today off too, but I'm supposed to be covering for my manager tomorrow, and I needed to get up to speed. At least it's quiet this morning.
at home today and feeling a bit chatty
[penelope] So. This NT assistant project leader thingummy. Would that be full-time? Like a proper job? Would you have to resign from your shiny new PR job? Like a *BIG* decision?
[snorgle] I've got a sniffle-in-the-nose and a tickle-in-the-throat which is a bit worrying. Especially as it's my daughter's thirteenth birthday tomorrow and our home is going to be invaded by nine [yes NINE] newteens for a 'sleepover'. I must be bonkers. Brandy, honey and lemon now top the shopping list.
[rab] Nice to hear news of Dresden, me ol' china. Although I lived in Germany for 11 years [child of the forces], the cities of East Germany were but names with disquieting connotations and never to be visited. The closest I came was a longish spell in Berlin which I remember as a gloriously spacious city. Even though I was young, I still have a sense of the amazing architecture and the night-life. However, the salutary reminder of its isolation from the west came during my train journeys to boarding school which crossed the eastern zone. At the checkpoint, the window blinds would be firmly lowered and we were instructed to stay in our seats and not move under any circumstances. The train travelled really s-l-o-w-l-y, just to add to the tension. I really must return to the area if only to rid myself of these residual childish fears.
It's back!
For any fans out there, announcement on the BBC News page: Doctor Who to return in a new series, scripted by Russell T Davies, and produced by BBC Wales.
Trusty
[Chalky] Nope, not full time - just the odd week or weekend on a voluntary basis, mopping up teenage tears, giving tool safety talks and eating instant soup. Nice to be thought of as being capable though - I never even thought I was grown up until now.
GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!
PANTSMC IS DOWN!
more posh pants
DrQ]Lets hope its just an upgrade.
Although I have not seen Graham III around the boards for a while, my congrats on going to No 1 on Celebrity MC , together with that evil_edna you've turned the table upside down. (Do you think that will entice Darren back? I do hope so.)
sheepishdaq
Hullo folks. Haven't been online much, though have now at last got a modem sorted on my home computer, so have been updating my celebdaq thing occasionally. Once I have a job sorted so can justify spending ages on the internet I'll probably be seen a bit more around here...

Oh, and thanks for the congrats...
gurt haaaairy beasties
NIK - DO NOT GO TO THIS PAGE!!! Most likely this is a Lycosa godeffroyi, seen this morning on the way to do the washing, downstairs. The ruler is actually a little closer to the camera, so the scale isn't perfectly accurate. A medium-sized common wolf spider.
beastie
DAMN that's big! It looks sort of velvety, was it really hairy?
[flerdle] Nice pic. Only a couple of days ago I found a real biggie on a wall. I had a really good look at it, should have got a photo. This one was really hairy.
long-leggerty beastie
flerdle] Did it manage to get the washing done?
Big? that's LITTLE
[snorgle] It seemed to have short hairs which were fairly flat against its body, giving the velvety look. So - yes, very hairy. Completely, even. And you might notice a white-yellowish bright spot near its front - that's a reflection off one of its larger two eyes. I should have taken an even closer shot. Next time.
Two legs good, eight legs even more efficient.
No, but it's going to clean the floor later, if I can teach it to use the mop wringer.
Hardly Itsy Bitsy
[flerdle] Re-spect! My wife was certainly impressed, pretty much along the lines of "We're never going to Australia!" One question: how does one relocate a spider that size? Or do you just work round them? And how fast doo they move?
OK, that was three questions.
Octalegs
Dunx, I can assure that they can move very fast when they wish to. Usually they are quite docile and just amble about the place but, should you miss on the first attempt at capture, they take off like greased lightning - one second you think you've caught them, next they are five metres away.
My method of capture is a container wide enough to encompass its legs without cutting them off; from above bring the container in line and, quickly and carefully bring it down on top of the beast. The trick then is to get a sheet of cardboard (or similar) to slide between the wall/floor and the container whilst at the same time keeping the arachnid within the container. Given that they are built to fit into and through very narrow spaces this can at times be a challenge.
Yes, they do bite but I understand that whilst it can be painful it is certainly not a life threatening experience. Like most snakes they would rather just get out of the way and will only have a go at you if they have no other choice (e.g. If you get into bed with one!) For the sake of your good wife I might mention that such a situation is so rare as to be non-existent, although someone once said it happened to them. My son is quite happy to let these things walk over him, through his hair and the like ... me ... err, err. I did have one run over my hand - many years ago - when I pulled the mail out of the letter box; it was quite soft and not at all like I would have expected. Truly!
Stuttering
Whoops! How the 'eck did that 'appen?
Double vision
Answer: It didn't. I had a double post up there a minute ago ... must go and see the optometrist methinks.
You rang? :-)

This one, when I tapped the bucket, ran away quite fast, doing a couple of little skips/bounces as it went. I have caught them for relocation using the method Dujon described, but usually I just leave them alone. And yes, I've seen much bigger, Dunx, but let your good wife be not afeared - the big fellas like that really are quite harmless. And soft/light/delicate/shy.

Wibbles
They still give me the heebie jeebies, flerdle! Anyhoo, about time I went to watch the final of the local aerial ping-pong game. Not that I care, but seeing as your local team is in it, I'd best keep up to speed ... ;-)
Collywobbles
I watched it with friends/relatives; some delightful play, and some dreadfully disastrous play (one fumble is brought clearly to mind). Ate lots of junk food, watched it on tv with the sound down, but with Roy & HG on the radio, it was hilarious. Keep an ear out for them next weekend with the other unmentionable code's final.
PantsMC
[Dr Q] Let's hope it's just a computer crash that will right itself soon. Unfortunately, Mr Pants himself wasn't the person who actually *programmed* the MC server, he was just its host - i.e. the one with the password-access power to start and finish games. (Surprisingly, perhaps, the password is not "Badgerline" - I've tried it, and it doesn't work. ;-)

The actual programmer of PantsMC, apparently called Tim, has completely disappeared from the net years ago (and never, in any case, played MC, being no relation of the _tim_ who appeared on Old York and was infamous for Really Bad HTML.)

(PantsMC was, despite its best intentions, probably never the equal of the Old Delphi server...)

PantsMC
Still down at 8.38 pm.
Pants MC
STILL down at 11pm! Neeeeeeeeeed to play! have moves to make! People to put in nid! *getting withdrawal symptoms*
ooh pants!
Still down..oh dear!
Pants down
Can anyone join in? ... :-(
Ouzo for breakfast
Greek restaurants seem quite common here in Dresden, and we have just returned from brunch at the local one. We seem to have got a bit of a reputation with the staff who seem very keen to take the mickey out of us at any opportunity. The local pub seems to employ only the most beautiful staff. Inge seems to be the most favourite, although there are a few votes for Steffi. Yesterday afternoon we were in town and tracked down a huge, beautiful palace that somehow we missed on Tuesday. Last night we ended up in a bar that had a woman dancing away in a box, and who wore a range of increasingly scanty outfits for each session. At first we were rather nervous about entering the establishment, but it turned out to have quite a normal, mixed clientele. I do like Abroad. Especially an Abroad where there are no spiders, and my pants stay up. Here endeth the second dispatch.
PANTS
*getting the shakes*
Pants still down
I've only ever made one move in pants. Things seemed very slow in there - it was weeks before anyone responded (probably as much a comment on my sense of humour than anything else). Welcome Mr Prune!
I like the Pants community, but it does tend to be slow sometimes, and it's not helped by the way the site renders the games as huge tables, which usually only display when the whole page is downloaded. Also, there's the lack of a simulpost detection system. These could be fixed if the site was reprogrammed, of course...
pants
Thanks! I don't know about it being slow - we had things going along quite quickly, then suddenly BOOM! No more pants! For the record, 2.23pm, Mon 29th September, and still no pants. (Sadly not a comment on my social life!)
I looked at Pants but it seemed slightly scary. Those tables look like charts on the wall of my old science classroom. It brought terrible memories flooding back.
Bigpants
Hello everybody, another Pants refugee here. This is my first posting on any other MC related site; I disvovered Pants a couple of years ago and it has proved adequate for my meager needs - until today!! Didn't take me too long to spot some familiar names though! (Its 5.45pm BST on Monday 29th Sept and Pants is still down)
Pants refugees
And here's another one. I have played briefly on Not York (before it too vanished) and at Orange, both under different pseudonyms, and I've also been posting under this name at the Lockisseum. Nice place you've got here.
Welcome, fellow Pantaloons!
Enjoy your stay, which may be permanent, here at MC5. And BTW, for those of you who aren't familiar with making moves with HTML...

What you type and what appears
<b>foo</b> = foo
<i>foo</i> = foo
<small>foo</small> = foo
<hr> =
Yeah, hi all those also from Pants. It's a pity if Pants doesn't come back in some form. Still, there's still this, Orange and MCiOS.
Incidentally, I note the Fortean Times chat forum has started a Cheddar Gorge thread! Heh!
Angus and pseudonyms
Just out of interest, what other pseudonyms have you been on other servers?
My other names
I was Dexter at Orange and Courage the Cowardly Dog on !York. I remember my finest hour probably being on !York, where I managed to goad st dogmael into attempting to pass off "Bugger Me! My Auntie's On The Roof!" during one particularly lewd game of Boardman's: I was using some pretty dubious constructs and he took it and ran the length of the pitch, up the terrace, out the gates and halfway round the world to Auckland before he touched the ball down.
[Angus] Yup, that'd st d.
(please insert the word "be" before the enthusiastic saint's name, there. I seem to have dropped it at a crucial moment)
A squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag
I like st d. I have a feeling that people thought I was his alterego (probably because of the 'dog' bit) after the MCiOS ban he earned. But just for the record, I'm not.
Valediction?
Has Mr Wildpants been spotted recently? Perhaps he can shed some light on situation. I had a hunch that the server was shuddering to a halt - some of the games have been around for nearly a year now and have all but fossilised. Pants was my introduction to online Crescentfun, so will always hold a special place in my thingy, but life moves on - anyway, I like it here, and there [MCiOS] and that other place [Orange]. Nice people.
!York archive!!
Yay - I just did a search on wildpants and found that York is still with us (sort of). I tried to do a link but failed so here be the address: http://madeira.physiol.ucl.ac.uk/people/jim/crescent/
ooerr
Does anyone want to see pictures of what I saw while walking home tonight? Don't worry... or maybe do... it's... well, it's not a spider...
yes - go-on - don't keep us in suspense!
oh, if you insist, bu it probably means I'll never get visitors now. *grumble grumble*
Ok. I've also moved the spider picture.

Like I said, this isn't a spider. This was perhaps a 45minute stroll from the centre of the city, and it was pretty dark at 6:30pm. It's near the top of the largest hill in the area, which isn't too far from the river. Brisbane is fairly green. I don't know how I noticed it, as it was about 5m away, diagonally upwards. Look here and then here.

I take no responsibility for heebie-jeebies.

Ooooooh!
Well spotted. Looks like a healthy little bugger as well. :)
I take it you don't work for the Brisbane tourist office then?
pretty pattern
Is there any chance next time of climbing the tree to gett a bit closer? I'd be interested to see the pattern on the back of its head.
one word...
err... no. The tree was fairly spindly and a bit rough, and in someone else's yard. And I'm going away on Thursday, and it'll probably be gone :-(
or try this...
[Inkspot] or have a look at this; best enlargement/detail I can do.
urgh
... and sorry for any incoherence/misreading/whatever I might be doing right now; text is always hard to hear tone, Inkspot, and I'm currently suffering bad, bad hayfever, and extreme tiredness... g'night all. *falls off chair*
Aww, poor flerdle. We should treat our snake snappers more considerately. Here, have a hankie.
Wow!
I wish I lived in a country with things like that. Just my luck that the only foreign place I've been in for any length of time was New Zealand, where the most interesting wildlife is a pom pom on legs.
pants
Still no news I take it? ten to eight tuesday evening, and still no pants!
[BM] What, a dust puppy?
Pants
The PantsMC player profiles page is still up and working. I have sent MWP an email at the address you send your profile, though what good it'll do I don't know. I haven't had a reply yet, but it was only about 24 hrs ago.
Late arrivals at the discussion between Bob the dog, Dunx & Chalky up there...
Probably just my perspective, having ducked out of the whole MC circuit for a while (and having stuck solely to !York before that), but this place has a feeling of the afterlife, or a nuclear fallout shelter about it - in the best possible way. There's a lot the same, familiar faces and games, but somehow you always end up thinking about the ones who're missing, and the classic games of the past.
Did I really just type that?
Pantsy
The esteemed MWP has been spied in the Lockisseum, and said more or less that the outage is probably permanent.

I hope the games can at least be recovered...

Well, at least that would give me closure on the red name issue! I wonder if a new MC site will spring up elsewhere.
[Rosie] That was because the player profiles page was hosted on Mr Pants's own VirusPlanet server, not on Cream.org.
Profiles of Pants
[JLE] The new one that Alfredo García has is on Geocities. http://www.geocities.com/pantsmcprofiles/profiles.html
Tuj] !York had inbuilt character because it had lived a bit. This site has an embrionic character of its own and is fertile ground.
[bob] And also because the move from Old York to Not York was pretty much seamless - !York was up within days, and Old York carried a redirector page to the new address. So there was pretty much continuity there, which the disappearance of York *without* replacement doesn't achieve.
Hmmmm...
Two dead links on the front page. I shall leave them there as a reminder to whoever to get an archive together which I will link to when put in place. Mind you, I can't see why !York at least couldn't be made live again.
However
On a more positive note, if there are any Pants refugees wishing to take residence here then I offer my warmest welcome to you all, and could even be convinced to get a new game going in celebration. In fact, I wonder if it's time for a couple of new games now that the current ones have been running for a while. I might nominate Centurion as a possibility, as one that never really caught on.
New Game
[rab] One of the most popular games on Pants was Animal, Vegetable, Mineral. Perhaps that should be added here?
AVM and Abstract
I loved AVM & A - an excellent game for bringing out the competitiveness/stroppiness/impatience in some players - snorgle's obscure polecat being a memorable example. heheheheh. Blimey, I'm reminiscerating already.
sorry -just practicing
Thanks Dr Q
Chalky - stirring
Dammit - it was a caracal lynx! You think you'd remember..
snorgle's whatever
So it was. I didn't guess it anyway, despite frenetic googling.
New games
(Dr Q, Chalky) I agree. It would be nice to see that. Also Jeopardised, which for non ex-Pants members I should explain meant you were given an answer and had to provide a question. I think we can take it that Pants is as dead as the Norwegian Blue, but if not, and only "sleeping" I have to admit I'll be back, as old habits die hard. One of its best features was the chat space available in all the games.
Jeopardised
[Rosie] I think you'll find the very thing in Orange MC.
Informal game chat
[Rosie] I agree wholeheartedly (including the return should the server finally cool down.) Whilst Pant's format was in some ways limiting that particular facility was most useful, in that one could quickly scan recent entries and 'have a think' and whilst doing that have a chuckle at the comments. Rab, I'm not complaining!
Much later
[Rosie] Two things if I may. Firstly, did you receive a response to your e-mail? My system is doing some odd things at times; it gives me an error message and, at the same time, tells me the mail has been sent. Secondly, you being interested in weather, you may be interested in this site - http://www.bmcc.nsw.gov.au/weather/?Submit=I+Accept - the site is a good 3000' higher than I, so it's not really indicative of my weather. It's quite a neat set up though.
Wiggly things
Was that a Diamond Python? It looks a bit like that to me, not that I'm an expert; my son would give me an instant report, however, he's not here. Anyhoo, they are totally harmless - even I will let one run around me (apart from the neck) they're constrictors.
Lost again
That was supposed to be addressed to our resident herpetologist. Sorry, flerdle.
*waving*
Hello Friends from pants. Is nice to meet you all.
Chill Blaine
I had to be in London today. By 4.30pm my meetings were over so I wandered over to tower bridge to see Mr Blaine. It was not disappointing. The wind was getting up and he was swinging around quite merrily.
Blaineless
Oh. Is he still there?
David Blaine and other animals
Presume so. Glad I'm not the only one paying NO attention to stupid Americans! Speaking of stupidity, what's everyone's take on this Russian Roulette gig of Derren Brown's? (Is it odd they have the same initials?)
before your very eyes
I hadn't heard about it, so I googled and found this. Isn't this an old illusion in a modern context? Stage illusionists in Houdinis time regularly had members of the audience disemboweled or eaten by lions for maximum shock tactics. What Derren Brown is good at is publicity. If you saw a magician in a local club doing this, you'd probably not bat an eyelid.
Blaine - oh him!
I was in London last week, the taxi driver (who had just had an altercation with a large and very tatooed van driver) puttled into the traffic near the Blaine thing. "What's the holdup?" I inocently asked. "Oh, it some f***ing idiot in a f***ing glass f***ing box," taking deep breath to refresh expletive store, "causes nuffin' but f***ing trouble, all the f***ing idiots slow down and rubberneck, pain in the f***ing arse." Glad I asked, really.
Tag der Deutschen Einheit
Day off today, as it's German Reunification Day, which appears to be celebrated in absolutely no way whatsoever. I'm not sure what one would do - maybe create small model walls and knock them down or something. Anyway, this means that there's no physics lectures (hurrah) and an opportunity to head into town and take some pictures. At least, now that the fog has lifted.
Laying the Blaine
I went to see him a while back. I thought it was actually quite interesting - I was struck by the fact that he's not suspended very high, so you can see him more clearly than I anticipated. At least he's only there for 44 days - Simeon Stylites stood on his pillar for 30 years, and even patriarchs and emperors went to see him.
Rab - are you living/working in Germany?
Nope
Just a short visit - two weeks in Dresden on a 'workshop' which is a kind of low-talk-density conference. Back home tomorrow.
Einheit
[rab] I'm struck dumb - there really is a concept for which the German word is shorter than the English. But I s'pose Einheit is really 'unity'. Reunification (13) is Wiedervereinigung (17) - and rational order is restored. Phew!
sub atomic worm hole attacks carrot
In the game AMV is there a limit to how small you can go, as I was wondering last night, about atoms and molecules. Is a uranium atom "mineral" or is it abstract because at that scale it is millions of atoms that make the solid object. Once I started thinking of this (it was late) I also wondered about neutrinos, quarks, string and unstable waves in the 11th dimension (I had do stop somewhere) when does somethig stop being AVM and are sub/atomic particles allowed?
atom?
The atom is the smallest possible "mineral", because it, by definition, is an element. Anything underneath that (e.g. quarks, pions, leptons, gluons, neutrinos, photons, etc.) is abstract.
Hang on
So where's the distinction between mineral and animal? Animals are made of atoms. And we count parts of animals, such as a leather jacket, as animal for these purposes. So a fragment of bone would count as animal, even though it's just a big pile of calcium atoms. So what about a single atom removed from that bone? Is that animal, while an identical atom removed from a rock is mineral? If we say that both atoms are mineral, then the difference between animal and mineral must lie in the form rather than the matter. But then a dinosaur bone has animal form but is made of mineral matter that was never part of the animal. Chalk is clearly a mineral but is made of what was once animals. In fact, given the existence of the "rock cycle", in which volcanic, metamorphic, and sedimentary rocks all turn into each other - and into animals and plants and back again - with slow but ineluctable regularity, it seems that there is no objective dividing line between any of our three categories, and it's all just arbitrary.
[Breadmaster] It's only a game!

Going back a bit, I did apply to load the revolver in that Derren Brown thing. I got as far as having to do an audition tape but it never went further. Probably I was just too strange.

[BM] If it is alive/dead but the components thereof have not sufficiently decomposed to the point where it would be considered a mineral by geological standards, then it's animal and/or vegetable. A cricket ball, e.g. is both animal and vegetable. Bone, if that were the object in question, I would list as animal and mineral.
Or they just found the idea of Darren and Derren on stage at the same time to be too disturbing...

[BM] All sounds a bit quantum, to me.
What you're trying to do is draw definite lines along fuzzy boundaries, which looks OK from a distance but when you look closely, well, aren't.

Pedantic? I?
[Darren] "Only a game"? You won't win anything with an attitude like that, my lad!
We had the same argument over SARS when that was a subject -- was it an animal, vegetable, or mineral? A virus is a non-cellular collection of ribonucleic acids which merely attaches to an unlucky living cell and sort-of-passively uses the cell's contents to propagate itself.

I'd claim it's a mineral, but others would have a valid argument otherwise.
And what about mushrooms?
'shrooms!
Fungi in general would be considered vegetable.
Derren
So do we hope he snuffs it or what? (Refusing to get into highly confusing conversation about anything below sub-atomic level)
Dr Q] How would you class Harry Potter?
[Btd] Animal/Abstract.
rushing roulade
I'm staggered they're showing Russian Roulette on TV. There was enough trouble with Jackass!! What the f*ck is going on? In a way, I hope he cops it. Would teach the lads at Channel 4 a lesson, eh? Mwahahaah!
The trouble with all these illusionists doing "high-risk" stunts is that we all *know* they'll survive it. It's like an adventure movie, you always have the nauseating knowledge the protagonist will come through in the end. Of course, there have been the rare occasions where it's all gone horribly wrong, but frankly I much prefer smaller, close-up magic than the hyped-up stuff.
continued....
So, you may ask, why did I apply for the Derren Brown thing? Well, having seen his other TV shows, I wanted to see what it would be like, simple as that.
later...
[Dujon] Sorry am late replying, visiting friend near Wollongong, and with travel and all I didn't have net access for 48HOURS!!! I coped though :-). I don't know much about identifying snakes, so can't help you there much, but it did look like some sort of python, and was about 6ft long. I put a closeup of its head (and so some of its pattern) in that same directory, if I hadn't mentioned that before.
AVM distinctions
There is no problem in distinguishing between A, V and M (provided we can agree on a definition of life). Animals have life and a nervous system. Vegetables have life and no nervous system or brain. Minerals don't have life. The definitions include derivatives of Animal and Vegetable eg leather jacket, plank of wood, as has been mentioned. Inkspot puts his finger on it when saying there is a limit of how small you can go and to reduce it to atoms leads to meaninglessness. Even reducing it to molecules causes great difficulties.
And ... there's more!
I believe that, in the main, the idea is/was to have a target which is commonly known or which can be readily deduced rather than something esoteric. The whole idea is simply to give participants the chance to exercise logic and have a bit of fun in the process. In my opinion the use of 'string', as in the twine variety, is fine; the use of 'string' in the quantum sense is rather obtuse to most people and thus not in the spirit of the game. We all have our areas of special interest and should avoid the use of terms which are specific to experts (amateur or otherwise) in those fields. Well, that's my two bob's worth. ... :-)
I agree. It is easy to think of words/objects that cross the boundaries, but are they really fun to play? Surely it is the responsibility of the chairperson to set objects that are interesting, logical and entertaining. Dujon] This is my one Bob's worth!
AVM
If someone tried to put up something like 'a calcium atom from an animal bone' no-one'd ever get it and they'd be seriously looked down upon in future. I don't know how many bob's that was. Maybe Bob (the dog) knows best.
Bobbing up
Agree with all above. Also, from experience, when In The Chair - it's worth considering how attentive you can be for the following few days. DrQ's 'mineral' moved along fairly swiftly, even though there were plenty of questions - all down to the fact that he was 'here' and could reply quickly. Ten bob please.
Hide your pants!
Under the circumstances, shouldn't the Pants link icon be removed from the main page?
Tightening belt.
What's a suitable period of mourning after, and if, the illness is terminal? Perhaps we should await completion of the Coroner's enquiry.
Having Enquired
Dead as a Dodo. Mandatory period of mourning - one more day.
Efficiency
Coroner, sir/madam, you are the most prompt and effective government official whom I have had the pleasure to meet. Now; rab's laid out the welcome mat - ta! Cushions, check; sofa, check; glass, check; whoops! where's the bar? ... ;-)
Reptiles
[flerdle] Sorry, just read your post re your slithery friend. I suspect the D.Python. Welcome to the south, sorry about the cool weather; now if you'd been here las......
cool
[Dujon] Ta. I *likes* the cool weather, and yes, I consider it cool, rather than cold, which is a good thing. But then again I'm near the coast right now, and it has been up to something like 15 C. The weather was really good until this afternoon, when it started raining. Oh well, more time for hot chocolate drinks and good books. There go the plans for rock-climbing tomorrow (although I would have merely been watching). We have managed to watch not one, but two movies in a couple of days - remarkable considering I haven't gone to the movies in a very long time. I would heartily recommend Pirates of the Caribbean. Hrmm, Lara Croft etc etc (2) is passable; I admit I'm not a fan, I hadn't seen the first one or played the game or read the comics or whatever else there is to know about it; I kept being distracted by her lips (not attractive, I'm afraid), and Chris Barrie trying to be serious (?!?)

Oh, and I have another photo, but that will have to wait till I get home. It was near the foodscraps bin this time...

Yeah, Pirates is pretty good, and fitted in well with the ride. I just saw Stephen Fry's Bright Young Things yesterday, which I'd also recommend.
Stephen Fry and Other Geniuses/Genii/Genies
Has anyone been watching QI? Fabulous! Incidently, what is the plural of genius?
ii us
And what is the plural of platypus?
snorgle
Platypi. And very tasty it is too...
My back
Five hours in Frankfurt airport and a hangover. Yum. But yesterday was another day.

[Inkspot, a while ago] Although using an abbreviation might be classed "cheating" I really cannot find a way to explain the meaning of 3er WG using anything shorter than "communal dwelling shared by three people" in English. WG stands for Wohngemeinschaft, btw. And 3er is not an abbreviation. It's a genetive, of all things.

[Darren, et al, re links] I refer you to this comment I recently made on the subject.

QI
Angus] 'Sbeen good, hasn't it? Heard one review saying it was the ISIHAC of TV, though I wouldn't quite go that far. Though it's closer than anything in a long time.
Quite Interesting
I keep missing QI, it's the type of programme I love, so I must really make the effort..
Quirky Intellectualising
It's not ISIHaC, in my opinion - not even close - but it's a superb half hour's entertainment. Fry is magnificent [isn't he always?] and last week Alan Davies was not just very funny, but even managed to 'outbuzz' Jeremy Hardy.
I must confess that I'm about to switch on Ch4 and watch that eejit doing his 'live on air' russian roulette thing.
rolling russian
Oops! I missed it. Is he dead?
bullet chamber 3
snorgle]He missed.
Rab]The only 3er I know about is the conker my son Owen has. I shall get my revenge! there were some great conkers in the churchyard round the corner from us.
Conkers
I once kept a conker for a year after it survived the school conkers season. However, in its first match next season - it was a 67-er, mainly by virtue of picking up all the points from other conkers in the "last man standing" stakes - it didn't so much shatter as squish.
All Conkering
Some time ago, I lived on the Northants/Cambs border. A small village nearby, Ashton, played host to the Annual National Conker Championships. Serious stuff. I wonder if it still does? *wanders off for a quick google*
Freakout
What-ho, ladies and gents. How are we all this fine eve? My sincere thanks to Dr.Q for informing me of the sad demise of Pants MC. I think a minute's silence sould be observed. Nobody post here for another minute. Thank you.
hail fellow well ......
OK - minute's up. Hi Thrax :-)
nosing
Where have you been, Thrax?
World Conkering
Blimey - that Conker thing I mentioned - it's the WORLD Conker Championship, no less. Second Sunday in October. That's a week today.
Freakout
Hey there, you two. I've just been hither and thither. I've just had a go at the Pants game, but for some reason my entries didn't come out right. No bold, and all my 'return's didn't work. I feel glum.
glum-busting
[Thrax] A couple of pages back, DrQ posted some helpful hints for highlighting text which includes the 'tags' for Bold, Italics, Small Font and Drawing a Line. If you use the same symbol pattern that he has shown - ie. the pointy chevron ones to the right of the letter 'M' on your keypad, the tag for line break is 'br', and the one for new para is 'p'. Usefully, in here you can 'Preview' your entry before you 'Submit' it.
Recap on basic HTML
What you type and what appears
<b>foo</b> = foo
<i>foo</i> = foo
<small>foo</small> = foo
<br> = [new line]
<hr> =
HTML
(Dr Q)"small" (got to type it like that) doesn't seem to work with me. I tried it in a comment in the Limericks. If I just use "s" as a tag it gives a crossed out word. Any ideas?
Smallish
[Rosie] It did work. If you are comparing the size of your comment type face with that of snorgle, don't. She used a specific font size command (on this occasion size 4 - that is, '<'font size=4'>' before the comment text and '<'/font'>' after the comment. (without the apostrophes - DrQ is more clever than I when it comes to HTML; I have no idea as to how to show code as text. I think it's a 'tt' and '/tt' command, but I'm not sure as to what else is required)
Size is everything.
Whoops, sorry Rosie, that should have been -4. See the difference below. 4 is obviously the larger.

Hello

Hello

< and >
[Duj]
&lt; = < , &gt; = >
Take two.
&lt; = < , &gt; = >
Thanks to the good Dr.
Let's try that again, then.

<font size=4> This is it
<font size=-4> This is it
<small>This is it

This is it
This is it
This is it
Humble pie.
Sorry, I was experimenting and hit the wrong button. Turns red and disappears.
It is colours with me
In the past I have used browser friendly colours on this site - but they came out oddly. They seem to be working now, according to the preview button. Let me know if you see anything different...
FONT COLOR="BLUE"
FONT COLOR="RED"
FONT COLOR="MAGENTA"
FONT COLOR="GREEN"
FONT COLOR="#63bdb5"
FONT COLOR="#006B84"
FONT COLOR="HAMPSTER"
small furry animals
[BtD] The first four and the last have come out as "named". The two variations of green [nos. 5 & 6] are very pretty and have codes within the "...". Was that intentional? I have attempted to post this in "hampster". It may end up as a dead hampster, ie. blue.
web colo(u)rs
For lots of colours that can be used with most browsers put this in your favourites
Dead furry animals
Sadly, a blue "hampster". Yes, the hexadecimal codes were intentional because there are no names for these colours.
If I had to name them...
Hospital Corridor
Blue Pants In With Whites
colouration
Ah, the famous 'pants left in wash'. As for your hospital corridor, I've never seen one that colour... It is the colour of the disposable drapes we use for knee replacements, arthroscopies and various other orthopaedic procedures. Also the very flattering hats we have to wear in theatre.
costume departments
[Angus] You're an actor? Or perhaps a theatre critic? Oh, how thrilling! I don't care. I've switched off my brain because I'm going to Nice for a holiday tomorrow :o)
Um, no...
Actor on the weekends. The rest of the time I'm a nurse in theatres, getting to see peoples insides. Such fun!
Breaks
Pen] Your namesake laid TWO eggs yesterday! Have a good holiday. Angus] Adds a new dimension to the phrase "break-a-leg".
oh yeah
Does too. Tell you what, never getting me on a motorbike - seen too many remnants!
Angus] My Mum was a radiographer and made me swear I'd never ride a motorbike.
HTML tricks
(Dr Q, Dujon) Thanks. I must save this page. BTW I still can't get used to typing "Rosie" instead of "ro987". Whoops, what a giveaway.
I doubt anyone will have the opportunity to use it now, Rosie, hehehe.
Of course, although HTML doesn't list all the colours by name, you can get some nice colours by putting a random word or phrase into the 'color' bit. So this colour, for example is 'Werewolves of London'.
Of course, that's where the Hampster colour comes from. I wonder if you can reverse engineer that to find a phrase from a colour?
You mean...
Swansea Summer
Conservative conference hair
Road Squirrel
Nurse!!!
New Labour
[penelope] I hear it's very nice in Nice. Here's a Colour Chart for guidance:
How about ...
Before the Côte d'Azur
Day 1 in the Côte d'Azur
Return from Côte d'Azur
[Ibid, BtD] I think Newborn's Nappy is more apt than the Werewolf thingy.
This is a wonderful distraction. I'm supposed to be revising for a computer exam tomorrow. Playing with font colours counts ... erm ... doesn't it?
[BtD] Interesting how your "New Labour" comes out in proud Tory blue... Quite suitable, really...
colouration (again)
Chalky - your 'return from Cote D'azur colour' is me after stepping outside my front door in December! I burn so damned easy...
burn baby burn . . .
[AP] Then you'll be in need of Bob the dog's Nurse!!!
Codes and Code Looking
[Dujon] re: displaying codes as text; what you're after are a couple of HTML entities for the '<' and '>' characters - these are &lt; and &gt; respectively. The <tt> tage you mention only changes the typeface used to display the text, although I usually prefer to use <code> (as you will see if you view source). In summary, then:

You typeYou see
&lt;<
&gt;>
&amp;&
<tt>teletype text</tt>teletype text
<code>code sample</code>code sample

Note Be very careful with these - it is tremendously easy to miss out a semi-colon and completely wreck the effect. Use Preview if you can!

Yes I Do!
People seem to be missing the simulpost messages, so I guess I ought to check they're still being displayed.
Churn
And then...
It does...
Yeah, I guess that's not as in-yer-face as it could be.
darren brown
was it a trick??
Code breaking
[Dunx] Thanks - I did try the code tag but, because I did not use the commands for the greater than/less than, it obviously fell over. One lives and learns!
Look no stance!
The AVMA players may find it easier to be less chatty now - you can be stance-free if you're still managing to be apropos.
But I like standing!
See?

Stands

Arnie for president
snorgle]on Dujon's shoulders I see.
I'm not collecting them on purpose, honest.
As promised, another photograph; you have been warned. Huntsman. A small one. Note the different shape of the legs, much more crab-like.
Igitt!
Makes me really glad that I live somewhere boring like the UK. I would also wager that one of its legs is missing, and I'm not sure if I find that more or less preferable to a fully kitted-out version.
Incy wincy
Yes, it may harbour thoughts of revenge..
Half Mast
[rab] Nicely done on the greyed out links. I shall probably just remove them, I'm afraid.
Stunt double
I saw David Blaine in Tescos this morning. Do I win £5?
[flerdle,rab] "The spider we want is the one who tore off that leg."
arachnophobia
I didn't have it, but I do now! Yeeks! Please tell me such a thing has never been seen in good old blighty! Having just spent twenty minutes watching 'Infested', bugs are not on my hot list right now. Made the mistake of watching Life of Grime too - never again...
one, two, three, four, five, seven, eight
[rab] It's not unusual to see the odd 'peg leg' wandering around.

Which reminds me ...
At the risk of boring you to death. About six or seven years ago I was sitting in the 'bar' (actually the garage) of a mate's place and was positioned next to a largish double sliding glass door which gave access to the rear of the house. Whilst enjoying the afternoon sunlight beaming through the glass (that's the door, as well as the hand held one!) I noticed a wasp wandering up the pane. It was about 2" to 3" long and was dragging a huntsman spider up the door. I had heard of wasps paralysing spiders and laying their eggs within but had never seen the act. Anyway, interesting as that was at the time, some twelve months ago I had a wasp buzzing around in my workshop - it's not unusual and usually ignored - which finally got itself tangled in my hair (what's left of it.) Naturally I brushed it away. When I did it dropped its load; a load that I had not realized it was a'carrying. The bounty which it had lost landed on the keyboard of my computer which I was using at the time; it was the legless body of a huntsman! Urrgh! It turns out that the wasps paralyse the spiders, nibble off their legs at body level and then lay their eggs and secrete them within the little dirt cells that they build. It gave me the shivering quits for a couple of days, I can tell you.

beastly happenings
[Duj] Thanks for that. I suddenly find that I can't face my Weetabix this morning.
One potata
[Dujon] I refer you to my previous remark.
Oh my God!
[Dujon] That is possibly the most traumatic thing I have ever heard. Thank God that disgusting item didn't land IN YOUR HAIR. However, I was under the impression that the things that paralyse spiders and lay their eggs on them so that they get slowly devoured by grubs are not wasps but ichneumons, which look similar. Ordinary wasps, however, do carry body parts in the way you describe - I once watched a wasp attacking a bee, which it did by sitting on its back and systematically chewing through its thorax. When it finished it flew off with the abdomen - presumably the yummy bit - leaving the front half of the bee staggering around until I mercifully squashed it. Perhaps what you saw was the aftermath of a similar act of piracy. The mere existence of the ichneumon, by the way, was partly responsible for the Victorian "crisis of faith", because many found its existence impossibly to square with the notion of a good creator God. Incidentally, I will keep your anecdote for when I need to terrify my girlfriend. She refused to come to bed last night because a SMALL MOTH was sitting on the wall. Well, that's what she said anyway...
Poker
[Spiders] I see your spiders (*shudder*), and raise you The Japanese Spider Crab: The biggest crab is the Japanese Spider crab (Macrocheira kaempferi), which lives on the floor of the north Pacific Ocean; it has a 12 ft (3.7 m) leg span.
spiders and creepies and bugs, oh my!
[breadmaster] Moths are awful! Quite why they have to mistake my face for a lightbulb I will never know! [Nik] I hope it stays there!
MC
Incidently, why is no-one playing the long game any more? My move is there to be ridiculed/praised/gasped-in-awe at/smirked at/ruled illegal...
It's been a long long time. . .
[AP] The complexities of the long game can take some time to calculate. Moves can be irregular and often come in bursts. Yours was a cunning move and it took me some time to see a gap in the web of LV currents to make a move to benefit me.
MC
Oh, I am the veritable prince of cunning. 'Cept when I'm not.
Abso bloody lutely nothing.
I just came across this - fell off my chair; I don't know whether or not it's been done before but, if so, I have not seen it;

As found in the Canberra Times, Personals section...

'Wanted: A tall well built woman with good
reputation, who can cook frogs
legs, who appreciates a good fuc-
schia garden, classic music and tal-
king without getting too serious.

Interested? Then please only read
lines 1, 3 and 5; still interested?
Call me at...... ***********'

huh?
I'd heard of that sort of thing as a joke, but actually printing it... ??
Backdown
Yes, in hindsight I was somewhat carried away, flerdle. Please accept my sincerest apologies - I had no intention of offending anyone's sensibilites and will in future be a little more circumspect with my postings. Again, my apologies.
Wasp like insects
[Breadmaster] This fellow looks very like the beastie I saw carting the spider up the door glass - she was certainy an all-over orange in colour - particularly with the back lighting.

The one who, along with it's load, became entangled in my thinning thatch was more likely a black species which is common here. They have the typical dangling long legs as they aeronaut around the place and often pop into my workshop to pass the time of day.

not to worry
[Dujon] My comment wasn't directed toward you; I was surprised that the paper had done it.
Still embarrassed
Thanks, flerdle, but my comment still stands. Funny as I found it, this is not a pub.
Public house
[Dujon] I suspect that such a thing appearing in print would be impossible as an advertiser cannot predict how their copy will be presented. Unless it was one of the staff having a laugh. Meanwhile, I always thought this place had the ambience of a pub about it. I'm not sure I want to persue the analogy though...
hic
Otherwise, we'll never sober up.. btw, you didn't offend me, so don't be too embarrassed.
I'm offended though. Cooking frogs' legs...? ;-)
Can I have your glasses, please? At least you don't hear that here. :-)
Polititude
[Rosie] When was the last time you were in a bar where they're that polite? My favourite euphemism for f*** off out the door is "Can you start to think about making a move now please?". By the way, has the law on licensing hours been changed yet? Or will it retain forever the status of empty election promise?
*hanging tinsel round the crescent*
Yay! Its Christmas! Hurrah!
greetings from the cote d,azure
Posting from NIce on one of these strangely-arranged keyboards... having a lovely time :o)
penelope
Wahay :-). Are you a Nice colour?
Is this not a pub?
[pen] Any pics to prove your presence? :)
[Duj] I thought it was f***ing hilarious, really. :)
Licensing Laws
[rab] The bill to change the rules came before Parliament, but it was defeated for (IIRC) some trivial technical reason and time was not granted to try again. Apparently, fewer MPs care about reducing the amount of after pub violence than about banning fox hunting.
not gone totally crazy, yet!
Sorry about my previous outburst. The choir I'm in recorded a Christmas CD (in june?!?) and its been released, so I was happily transported to a Christmas world caused by listening to the disc. (And you can all buy it in the shops or on-line, www.halle.co.uk. It's called Christmas collection (rather uninspired, methinks) but is a jolly good CD). And by the way, advance warning, on sunday 19th october the Halle orchestra and choir are performing Brahm's German requiem. Looks set to be an excellent concert. (7.30pm, Bridgewater Hall, Manchester). Time to stop self promoting and get back to work.

[pen] Hope you're having lots of fun. Tis still rather windy here in the UK, so enjoy the pleasant climes!

I'll be in Manchester that evening. Unfortunately, I'm there to see Dave Gorman's Googlewhack Adventure at 8pm in the Opera House.
Important astrologer
[Nik] Don't you like Dave Gorman? I'd happily swap places with you!
In the bleak midsummer...
[Lib] Oh the joys of recording - I've had to do that twice now, and it gets really wearing, especially if the weather's good. Last time we found and decorated a christmas tree to put in the chapel...
Fibs
I starting seeing Fibonacci numbers everywhere, which was nice for a while, but I then realised I made a mistake and they've gone again. It's still very rum though...
Jingle Bells
Christmas really has started too early this year. Debenhams were putting their decs for sale in August. :(
[UK] Ba-dum, tsch!
Fibs, fibs and more fibs
[rab] Rum indeed! Well, cheap plonk, really. Funny you should mention them though; I've just been doing a little bit of reading - mainly on the Golden Square/Ratio side of things. It's amazing where the things turn up in nature.
p.c.less
My home pc lost power on Tuesday, so no home surfing, Wednesday in for a new internal power supply. Took the pc home but the modem did not work, no surfing again, back to the shop. Several deep breaths and sighs later they came to the conclusion that it needed to be kept in overnight the problem being "It's a bit creaky" being a not to clued up on computers this tchno babble, I let them keep in. It worked fine when I bought it four years ago! (AMD500 with 64Mb RAM). No pc last night again. If it goes over the weekend I'll end up going cold turkey. My only consolation is here at the office which is for work purposes only.

Dujon]Golden square takes me back to my student days and the first year of my architecture degree and didactic patterns in nature. Including a day of research in the fine city of Bath.

Birthday
rab] Nice cake - it it an MC5 anniversary?
No
An act of pure self-indulgence on my part.
Cake with candles
[rab] oooh! Are you nine today?
Bring back Teddy!
...or ninty?
[Chalky] *blushes*

[Boolbar] Ninty? Sounds a bit like that Brazillian slang 'Pinto' to me. And just for you:

Happy Birthday
A wonderful day, dearest rab!
I hope the hangover is fab!
You'll drink the bar dry,
And (when pigs start to fly)
The uni will pick up the tab!
Many Happy Returns
Splendid. On a Friday aswell. Mine's a large brandy.
OK - self-disclosure alert. This astrology mallarkey. Received wisdom = it's a load of cobblers ... BUT - all the important people in my life [bar one and he's in January] have birthdays between mid - Sept and mid - Nov. Having just done the daughters, sister-in-law and a nephew in the last fortnight - next week it's my brother, a girly friend, two blokey friends and my boyfriend - all within 4 days. ALL these people live close by and warrant - nay, DESERVE more than just a card in the post. So many excuses to go to the pub. Oh yes, and the couple of weeks after - it's my late [God rest 'im] father, the french nephew and niece, another sister-in-law, another brother, my wonderful mother and the budgie ..... blah de blah de blah ....
So, rab, you're in fine company.
October babies
Is this sudden rush of birthdays anything to do with potential parents getting frisky (or very drunk) around Christmas, New Year and the beginning of Spring?
Felicitations
Many happy returns, Rab! [BtD] All of the best people are born in October!
Many happy returns of the day!
Salutations and many more rab!
birthdays
(Uncle K) Too true. Mother (still alive) and younger brother - 27 Oct. Niece 11 Oct. Not far away is other niece - 24 Sept, and me - 17 Nov when I move from a prodigiously multi-factored number to a prime number. Also 27 Oct are two other people I know plus the barmy Glenn Hoddle. None of this supports the idea that astrology is anything other than a compendium of testicular flummery. Anyway, Scorpios never believe in astrology, do they?
Happy returns rab
UK, Rosie] Gosh! Yes I've just checked. It seems that there is a suprisingly high rate of musical talent demonstrated by those born in October. There are also alot of Johns.
Persons of good reputation born in October and not called John: rab, Thom York, Bob Geldoff, Julian Cope, Mahatma Ghandi, Groucho Marks, Harold Pinter, Oscar Wilde
Persons of good reputation born in October and called John: John Lennon, John Cleese, John Keats, Johnny Marr
Persons of questionable reputation born in October:Jimmy Carter, Chris De-Burgh, Simon Le-Bon, Cliff Richard, Peter Stringfellow, Winonna Ryder and Margaret Thatcher
The conclusion? If you have a child in October, call it John.
Yeah, I was born in October too which proves that people of high musical talent come from that month.
I'm a September birthday, and I don't believe a word of my families nonsense about my singing.
qualititive survey
Oooh, I love lists. So far:

Rab - Oct 10
Incle Korky - Oct ?
Rosie - Nov 17
Darren - Oct ?
Chalky's budgie - Oct 26
Inkspot - Sept ?

any one else...?

October greats
me: Oct 16
Auntie Korky: Oct 20
Best friend: Oct 8
Best friend's cat: Oct 12
New next-door-neighbour: Oct 24

See you all next Monday (no net access at home, at the mo').
Ninty?
Ah, the missing "e". Oops! Happy Birthdaye Rab!
I'm a September Lad myself.
T-30 and counting
I can smell beer...
Returns
[Rab] Happy Birthday :oD
[All] Back from Nice - my cheeks still burning from this morning's sunshine. I'd recommend Nice in October - hot in the sun, cool in the shade, and warm enough to eat outside under a full moon on a rooftop terrace last night. There were people swimming au Mediterranée, although I didn't. I didn't take any photos, nor send any postcards, nor even buy souvenirs (unless you count bringing home brioche and black olive tapenade) but soaked up the smells and sounds. And I love just sitting outside, idly chatting and watching the world go by and drinking coffee...*sigh* :o)
A Merry Birthday, rab
pen] I have carefully resisted a pun about saying your holiday sounded "Nice".
Oops.
Birthdays
Mine was back in August (26th). I was away in Austria at the time. The landlady of the B&B I was staying in found it out (there was a place where, for identification purposes, I had to sign my date of birth) and presented me with a cake ;-)
bidet
Well, my birthdays June 28, my mother's June 24, and my (dec'd) maternal grandmother's was June 24 as well. My dad's is November 13, and he's a nasty alkie tosser..although his singing isn't bad..
June the twenty-odd
In my youth, I was thrilled to note that my paternal granfather's birthday was June 23rd, my paternal grandfather's was June 24th, and mine was the 25th. Simple things please simple minds, eh?
double up
[Tuj]Your father had 2 dads then? ;)
coinkydink
Well, I'm an October person (Next Sunday, since you ask - one or two of you may remember last October), and my good lady wife is June 24th. My children, thanks to careful planning (or random chance - take your pick) are November 5th and the 4th of July. They have fireworks on their birthdays.
more interuptions
A small beak in transmission whilst we pause slightly to salute snorgle in her historic run of being at No1 for 5 out of the last seven weeks in the Celebrity MC League
I am number one..again!
I thenk yew.. I'm stumped for who to go for now, though..
Beak?
There's a joke there somewhere but I'm damned if I can think of one right now. Well done snorgs.
Neb
[Chalky] Beak/snorgle/joke? I doubt it, I have never known her to be judgemental.
[snorgle] Well done! You must divulge your strategies when you finally pen your autobiography. ... ;-)
codicynces
I can immediately name at least seven people I know personally, with birthdays on the same day as mine. Oh, including me, of course. And I know I've forgotten one or two more. It's about five days over-long, but about when is Valentine's day again? :-D

This might interest some.

Oct 19?
Am I the only Piscean here (the name fits, by the way; as in 'drinks like a'.) Then again, I was born during WWII so I guess limited opportunities were presented! Incidentally, my family is all over the calendar; Mother 17 Nov., Wife 18 Nov. (Should I read something into that?) Siblings 3 Jan, 9 Sept. and 18 Dec.. Father 5 Oct., Paternal Grandmother 8 Oct., Maternal grandfather 9 Mar., Son 28 Jan, Daughter 26 Oct. Granddaughter 11 Aug. No pattern in that lot.
Mar 3
[flerdle] Interesting stats; However, during my life as a banker - which stretched over 26 years - in which time I interviewed innumerable people for account opening/loans and the like, memory tells me that I met 1 (one) person who had the same birthdate as myself - that is, the same month/day combination, not the year. I have always thought of that as statistically strange.
Hogging the cake.
[rab] Sorry, my friend, most remiss of me; happy birthday.
All alone
The only person I know who has the same birthday as mine is Eric Clapton. And I don't technically really know him. Spring seems to be a barren time when it comes to births. They say that on a football field there is a 50% chance that two of the 22 players will share a birthday, but someone better than me at adding will have to verify that.
Pisceans
[Duj] I'm a Pisces [24 Feb] therefore well out of kilter with the rest of my family/friends.
January
I am a Capricorn. But is there a statistical blip here in that so many MCers are experiencing birthdays around this time? Update of Chalkys list:
Rab - Oct 10
Uncle Korky - Oct 16
Rosie - Nov 17
Darren - Oct
Chalky's budgie - Oct 26
Inkspot - Sept
Watty - Oct
Boolbar - Sept
Joining the minority
I celebrate my birthday in March, could be wrong but I like it at that time of year! (And that makes me a self obsessed, competitive, headstrong aries!)
numbers
[BtD] Look at some of the other postings to find or work out several of the others here eg JLE, Watty, snorgle, Tuj, me... And I just remembered another person, so that makes 8 definitely on the same day as me. Is that some sort of record? I don't think I know a thousand peoples birthdays. It's too late to think about this, though. Neeed sleeeeeep...
[Breadmaster] See here for an explanation of that.
Footballers' birthdays
(Breadmaster) Very nearly right. You need 23 people, so add in the ref. The chances for 22 people are 47.6%, and for 23, 50.7%. With 50 people the chances are 97.0% and, needless to say, with 365 it's 100%. None of this takes into account those unfortunates born on 29 Feb in a leap year.
Taurus - Apr 27
Lilith the Psychotic Ferret, as we can figure out, is an Aquarius (we think she was born late January-early February)...what that means for ferrets, God only knows. :)
ferret signs
Ferrets probably have their own astrological signs..Trouser Leg, Screaming Rabbit, etc.
a perfect match
I torched a load of very dry hedge clippings today - there's nothing quite so good for the soul as a smoking and roaring great bonfire and hearing the neighbours spluttering as they rush to bring in the washing from the clouds of billowing smoke. And don't tell me about dioxins and furans and the products of incomplete combustion - I know. But unlike my neighbours ( I know what they ate just about every weekend this summer - I could always smell it cooking), I haven't had a barbecue for two years and so I reckon I'm entitled. :o)
cheeky!
Did you start the fire after they put their washing out? I hate it when people do that..
pre-wash
[Snorgle] Of course I lit it after they put their washing out! What neighbour would put out their washing after I lit a fire? Are you one of those neighbours who waits until I've lit a fire before they put out their washing and then complains when it smells of smoke? I hate it when people do that!! ;o)
wishy washy
On speaking terms with your neighbours then? :P

I suppose it depends how long their washing was out. If it was a while, then fair enough.

Persinally, I use Persil. Wonderful for those hard-to-shift bonfire stains . . .
i like goats
Get a goat. It can then eat the evidence.
Each which evidence? The bonfire or the clothes?
I'm a noxious neighbour - not many people know that
Oh dear - I'm not as inconsiderate as all that! The fire lasted about 20 minutes - I put it out once it had all burned away and the smoke cleared pretty quickly. I use Tesco's own label non-bio. It smells nicer than Persil (and I used to be a Persilite).
Are goats good to eat?
Goats' cheese is good.
Goat Stew
Pen] Yes - goats are very good to eat and I recommend them. They are used quite a lot in West Indian recipes. They taste a bit like strong lamb.
"Blow wind, and crack your cheeks..."
Just a little anecdote, since we were talking about birthdays, and this was brought to mind by a comment rom Rosie in the Mini Cheddars game. As those of you who are observant will already have noticed, my birthday falls on Oct 16. Back in 1987, this was the night of the Great Storm. Co-incidentally, also my 18th birthday. I was kept awake all night by roof tiles clattering groundwards and then smashing on the driveway, but at least I had the good news in the morning that, because of the weather disruption, all schools were closed! Whoopee!
My mother also told me that, when she was a little girl, her mother had told her that if she had been good all year, it would be sunny on her birthday, and if she had been bad, it would rain. She then looked me square in the eyes and said "What did you do?!"
Goats' cheese is NOT good
This has been a running debate between myself and my inlaws who are, notably, French. They are of the opinion that goats cheese is something wonderful. Indeed, how could anyone NOT like it? In fact, they like it so much that when they order a pizza, they make sure that there are 5 or 6 good dollops of goats cheese on top. I hold the considered view that it smells and tastes like vomit.
[Hux] I have to agree. My brother has lived in France for most of his adult life. At his wedding feast in June, French cheese was in abundance as one would expect. There must have been at least 20 varieties - all beautifully presented. I was persuaded to try the goat's cheese - it tasted like a farmyard and seemed to ferment inside me for at least 2 days - every burp, yeuch!
Spooky
Just turned on This Morning with Fern & Phil. What are they tasting? Chuffing Goat's Cheese! [Fern doesn't like it].
Who the heck
In an attempt to remain open minded (palletted?) and under the assumption that it must be "something of an aquired taste", I do try to force it down me once in a while... the taste remains unacquired.

ps. I don't know who "Fern & Phil" are. I thought it was Richard and Judy.
Say Cheese!
Goats cheese is good! Delicious, great on pizzas and unlike some cow cheeses doesn't taste or smell of vomit. Sheeps cheese is not so tasty - sort of smells like the wrong end of a baby. Haven't tried Llama cheese yet.
Rotted milk
Cheese is Evil.
cheesy peas!
[Raak]Probably, but I like it. Cream cheese, cheddar cheese, Emmental, Swiss cheese, soft cheese with garlic and herbs.. yum! I eat way too much of the stuff.
Dairy good
I have to agree with Boolbar. Goat’s cheese is wonderful. If you want a mild variety, make sure the milk has come from a virgin goat (you often get virgin milkers) that has been nowhere near a billy - 'cos it is the billy that has that musky goat aroma. Virgin goat’s cheese is sweeter and creamier than cows milk cheese. More natural and stronger varieties are more to my taste - especially the Brie style (I know some wonderful goats cheese folk in Worcestershire). These are especially good with fresh herbs (mint, dill etc) or deep-fried. Is it lunchtime yet?
I agree with Raak. Who was it who let their milk stand until it was all lumpy, and said, "I know! I'll drain off the liquid, mash all the chunks together, and eat the smooth firm paste that results."? Probably the same person who thought yoghurt looked yummy. Yoghurt is yummy, of course, but you wouldn't think it.
Sheepishly...
I went to see an early Genesis tribute band last night and really enjoyed it. Confession over.
Sorry Breadmaster - Simulposted and unacknowledged. Still disagree - cheese - especially traditional hand made stuff - is the staff of life.
more confessionals ...
[Bob the dog] If it's the same band that I saw earlier this year [Re-Genesis?] I don't blame you. Also - The Australian Pink Floyd are quite amazing.
Phew!
Chalky] Thank you! No, it was The Garden Wall and they did an exact reproduction of the Selling England tour. Apart from a slightly dorky 'Peter Gabriel' it was wonderful. I may even go to see them again in a few weeks time when they come to Birmingham. They are Italian - I believe. Recommended - if you like that sort of thing.
if you like that sort of thing
and oddly, I recommend it if you don't. I didn't think I did any more, but that early prog rock stuff was written to be performed so seeing it live added a whole new dimension for me. It was like some bizarre historical re-enactment society, but extremely entertaining.
Musical Box
[BtD, etc.] Anyone interested in a decent evening of prog would do well to get their bottoms down to the Astoria in Tottenham Court Road in a month's time. The two-day Progeny festival sees IQ headlining on Sat 15 Nov (supported by Pallas and Carl Palmer), and The Enid the following night. I'll be there for IQ, if anyone fancies coming along...
Prog
I'm a bit of a prog nut myself - Yes are my thing. Coincidently my tickets for the NEC in June 2004 arrived in the post this morning! I have always rated Pallas and IQ as well (much better than their contemporaries Marillion), but can't make it to London that weekend.
Cinema Show
UK/Big] also unavailable on that date. Saw the Enid many moons ago and was singled out in the audience for being the "Punk with a chinsey ear-ring". Suprised that IQ still going! They were the good Genesis clones (as opposed to Marrilion) I seem to remember (agree Bigsmith). Have you heard any Tetra Splendour? Gutsy modern music with the odd Prog twist.
Awake & Nervous
IQ are indeed still going strong, and I was able to be at their 20th anniversary concert in London back in December 2001. They're currently working on a new album, and also have an excellent DVD out of their stage show, Subterranea. Further info can be gleaned from www.gep.co.uk/iq
I've recently been getting into Spock's Beard, an American prog group who are being hailed as 'the Yes of the 21st Century'. I would comment, but I'm not yet familiar with Yes past Owner of a Lonely Heart...
Frank Chickens
There now follows a chicken update...
A quick bit of background for those of you who have not followed the progress of the Mornington chickens. Earlier this year I bought three chickens and named them after regular mc5 users Penelope, flerdle and Lib. flerdle laid the first egg.
Well since my last news update, little has happened except the chickens have grown, got red wattles and begun being allowed out into the garden. They love it, especially if I'm digging as they take great pleasure in grubbing freshly turned soil. They run to see me whenever I'm in the garden and will leap for anything you are carrying that looks vaguely like chicken food. I have three big vines in the garden (very fine crop this year) that still have some grapes left over. The chickens will jump two or three feet to get at the bigger grapes higher up.
In return for the grapes, they have laid about two eggs every three days consistently since flerdles first egg, but now things are moving up a gear. On Sunday we had two eggs in one day. Today we have already had three, one of which is huge (oddly zeppelin sized – and shaped). Anyone need any eggs?
boc boc boc
That poor hen! I could use some eggs, but I don't think posting them is a good idea.. :)
With apologies to non-cheese eaters, but - Mmmm... goat cheese. My mouth is watering at the thought of it.

I had a very good goat cheddar from Sainsbury's a few years ago. Excellent, sad I haven't seen anything like it here yet.

What animal's milk is Haloumi from? I know it tastes yummy!
Lib] Haloumi, like Feta should be from sheeps milk, but if you buy a mass produced product it is more likley to be made from cows milk.
Cheeeeeeeeeeeeeeese
Try Seriously Strong Cheddar - it's the absolute best - it won a prize and everything!
cheese - cheering
I'm going to nominate a mature cheddar-like cheese, made from unpasteurised milk, called Lincolnshire Poacher and made by a friend of a friend. I think it's available all over the country now. Yum :o)
More cheese, gromit
Gjetost for me - Norwegian goats milk cheese.
the "Laundry/ProgRock/Cheese" game
I think a mature creamy Stilton takes a lot of beating.
pennylopie] sounds scrumptious! French cheeses are simply out of this world... my personal favs are St. Nectaire, St. Emilion, and roquefort. Hmmm, I think I'll stop by a fromagerie and boulangerie on the way home tonight and pick up an nice Sancerre rouge while I'm at it!
Hoorah!
*Withdrawl symptoms over*
Curdled milk fetish
Speaking as someone who always ensures a well-stocked cheeseboard at Christmas, my favourites are Ilchester Cheddar Mexicana, Monterey Jack, Mature Cheddar with Caramelised Onions, Y Fenni, and Jarlsberg. On the subject of goats' cheese, I've used small circles of it to good effect, served upon griddled lamb cutlets with red wine gravy.
the important words ...
in all this are 'made from unpasteurised milk'. S'bury's do really quite good unpasteurised cheddar; and an awesome Brie de Meaux (which always makes me chuckle, because it often appears on the bargain-basement-'cos-it's near-its-sell-by-date-and-we're-afraid-of-bugs-and-lawyers shelf - at exactly the time when it is ready to eat and they could, if they wished, charge more for it ...).
Brie de Meaux
[Wol] Is that made from cats milk?
mews
No, you're thinking of Cheshire.
Broardcasting from the depths of Cheshire
[Wol] Friends lead me to believe that Cheshire cheese is actually made from wall paper paste, with a little plaster of Paris mixed in.....*Lib saunters off in the general direction of the supermarket wondering which cheese she'll buy today*
Cheese, and why you should all shut up about it
I'm a big lover of cheese. I'm also on a diet. The two, obviously, do not mix. For the first couple of months, I stuck to my "I'd rather have none than 'low-fat cheese'" guns, but it couldn't last. Thankfully, Tesco do have a "cheese" which - if you close your eyes, hold your nose and think about something else - could be mistaken for a medium-mature cheddar. Unless you heat it (you don't heat it).

I was in Cheddar a couple of months ago, and was forced to go into The Real Cheddar Cheese Company shop, and ended up with a (thankfully small triangle of) vintage cheddar, and it was delicious (in far-too-small portions). I miss (full-fat, creamy, hand-made, farmhouse) cheese (feta, cheddar, cheshire, wensleydale, lancashire, double gloucester, red leicester among... well, more varieties than that). I miss it badly.

thin cheese
[Nik] erm... try the Atkins diet? Then you could eat cheese 'til it comes out of your ears.
Cheesy Cheesy
[Nik] My sympathies. I'm in the invidious position of (1) being overweight and needing to cut down on fats; and (2) being a vegetarian whose primary source of protein is cheese. Tricky. My usual solution is to exercise more, but I can't even run at the moment because of a persistent knee injury. Quite frustrating.

[UK] You confuse me. Most of the cheeses you list are of the highest quality, but then you have Monterey Jack on your cheese board? Maybe the Jack you buy is better than the pappy Jack we can get here... is it dry Jack?

F-Atkins
[penelope] you mentioned the Atkins Diet ... in such a way that you *might* know how effective it is? Having been a very average 5' 6" size 12 for most of my adult life - I now find myself getting quite plumptious and can't be bothered to go to a Slimming Club.
Never mind, Chalky, I doubt you're as overweight as I am!
Atkins
It may work fast but it makes your breath smell.
Cheese
You want the good stuff, I suggest you get it cave matured. Yummy!
cave matured cheese
hardly low fat though is it? There must be diet cheese somewhere that doesn't taste of plastic!
Cardboard etc.
My good wife purchases low salt, low fat dairy products - including yoghurt. I flatly refuse to eat them (yes, I have tried each one!) so the 'fridge has his and hers compartments. ... :-)
Pseudonyms?
Is this "Come As Someone Else Day", or are we being hit with a pseudonym bomb?
Alias or Alien?
Dunno, DrQ. I've just come back to the site after watching strange things popping up here and there and everywhere about an hour ago.
Timing
Err, to pin it down for any reader, it's just after 0235 GMT as I type.
die(t) trying
[Chalky] Re: Atkins diet - I've read the book, tried it for a week or so... and while in principle it works by converting your body's metabolism to that of a starving person living off their fat reserves (David Blaine could be considered to be an Extreme Atkins Dieter), it's bloody hard to keep it up - and you do need lots of mineral and vitamin pills to pop and test-papers to wee on to make sure you're maintaining a state of ketosis. Slimming World do a slightly less extreme low-carb version (as opposed to Atkins' No-carb) which I successfully followed for a couple of months and dropped at least a dress size. Why not attend a slimming club just for a couple of weeks to get all the books, literature and a few recipes, then do the rest on your own? That's what I did. (Well, in fact I nicked one of the books while I was a reporter covering the town's Slimmer of the Year... so in fact I never went to a class at all). Alternatively, learn to love your curves and go for a half-hour stomp every night instead. :o)
Pseudonyms
Or there could simply be an abundance of new users...
Dieting
Whereas Weight Watchers is initially boring but much better for you. Do that, it lost me weight. And I also recommend stomping :)
Atkins
[pen] I'd rather try slicing my limbs off, since that's both less likely to kill me, and more likely to result in a stable weight afterwards.
dreaming
[DrQu+xum]Did you have a nightmare?
WW
[X, p, et al] Weightwatchers is what I'm doing, and last night I beat 5st 7lb after 8.5 months. Apart from the kaeselust, it's quite enjoyable, really. My diet is far better than it has ever been since I left home 9 years ago (and probably better than before then as well), and recently I added some exercise as well. At £4.75/week for the weighing (and optional chat/class afterwards that I never stay for), it's not cheap (especially when you need to lose 7 stone to become a Gold - non-paying - member), but they give out lots of helpful literature, and above all else it's a sane diet, which is why I've bothered with it at all.

More importantly than all this, I'm glad to see my DSL chose to remain alive this morning, after I forgot yet again to make sure it was okay when I left the house.

WW
Hurrah!
Pseudonyms
How do I know you're not all the same person?
strangers
Has anyone seen St Dogmael?
St Dogmael
A film or a person? *wears D hat for not knowing*
the saint
A person. Who usually posts on various MC boards.
st d
snorgle] He hasn't been on MC5 for ages, but I know he is a very regular contibutor to MCiOS and occasionally Orange too. I have seen him in the flesh - if that is what you mean, but not recently. He appears to be pretty normal to me - he has a very quick wit and is an excellent photographer.
Diet
Oh and Nik - well done!
Back to st dog
snorgle] You are right, I've just checked MCiOS and he has not posted in ages - last time was probably on Hyperlink Crescent. If you are suggesting that he is responsible for the sudden burst of odd pseudonyms, I think not. His sense of humour is too advanced.
Meeow
*Gives St Dogmael a virtual poke*
being virtually poked
ouch !
Sleep.
[snorgle] No, but I think I OD'd on Mountain Dew yesterday. I got 3.5 hours of sleep.
od
[DrQu+xum]Isn't that a sort of neon greenish yellow? I wonder if it stains your insides? You have probably gone over your lifetime safe amount of crinoline yellow or whatever the hell it is. Go on a detox diet immediately! Only raw vegetables and fruit juices for you - (and no Sunny Delight doesn't count!)
[Dr Q] Ooh - rampant jealousy! I haven't seen Mountain Dew on sale in the UK for years!

[Dunx] I usually buy my Monterey Jack straight off the deli counter at my local Tesco's. It's got a consistency that I con only describe by comparing it to Edam, but slightly creamier and a bit wobbly. I was amused to note that the label promotes it as an all-American cheese - made in Wales.
Mountain Dew
Never had the stuff. I nearly had some when they had a free sample desk up several years ago in a midlands University, but when I asked what it tasted like, the bloke behind the stand looked at me like I was an idiot and said 'like mountain dew, of course'. Since I didn't want to drink something that tastes of acid rain and goat's piss, I declined to sample any of Mr Miserable's wares. So, does it taste like acid rain and goat's piss?
being poked
schnorkle] so did you want anything then, or were you just wanting to wake me up ?
Mountain Dew
What is it?
owoooooooooo
[st dogmael]Just wondering where you had got to..
[Blue Bananas]A flavoured soft drink. As to what the flavour is, who knows? At least Irn Bru has real iron in it and tastes metallic.
Americana
[UK] Ah - it sounds like the wet stuff, but much more flavourful than the usual run of Jack you get at the supermarket. It is possible to buy cheese which tastes of something, but tasteless, plasticky pseudo-cheese is endemic.

Re: Mountain Dew - tried it once, I didn't like it. It's approximately orange flavoured, but it has a lot of caffeine in it. I managed to drink half a can before I got a splitting headache. I threw the rest away.

Foo!
Mountain Dew is neon yellow/green with large amounts of citric acid and caffeine. It's kick-ass, I tell you! KICK ASS! YEAHYEAHYEAH! *given a sedagive* Yes.
So, sort of like (soi-disant) Sunny Delight, then?
fluids
Sunny Delight is EVIL JUICE and should be outlawed. [Blue Bananas] I know that's you making with the pseudonyms - cut it out!
[Angus] I think s/he thinks it's funny.
Offended
Twas a temporary thing trying to find one I liked. But I like Blue bananas best.
Annoying everyone
Sorry about that. I'm only little, and therefore forgivable.
more guv'
Arnie becomes the £900 celebrity and showing no slowdown
Blue Banana]Hi and welcome to the Mornington community.
More offensive
[Angus Prune]OOh! How did you know?

I got this sent to my hotmail account -

Hi, Thank you for submitting your e-mail address to various SPAM companies, courtesy of The Official David Blaine website, www.davidblaine.com. Your e-mail address alone provided us with 0.5 cents, which, when you think about it, is $1k for every 200,000 addresses. So, thanks for adding to the FoB - Funds of Blaine. While I'm here, kudos to Mr Blaine on his recent trial, and all the English that do various, drunken things in front of poor Blainey, to try to cause a little havoc... well, you all suck. Go find something sensible to do, and stop wasting your lives. Yours, The Official David Blaine Society, together with over 2000 various mailing lists who now have your e-mail address.

Cheeky, or what? As its an e-mail address I use to sign up for any old rubbish, I don't really mind, but the nerve of some people! I was wondering at the sudden recent influx of pr0nographic spam, though. And what GIMP came up with that insulting simulpost message? SLAP!!!

Strange fruit
Blue Bananas] Hi and welcome.
snorgle] A gimp in a perspex box.
[Blue Bananas] Well, OK, maybe I leapt down your throat there, and sorry for that.
Records (Not LPs, EPs or such)
Is this some sort of record? Every single game has been 'activated' during the day of 15th October; amazing!
Spring, sprung and stuff
I have just come back into the workshop after hanging out the washing - what an absolutely magnificent day. The bees (not the honey-bees or bumble bees) are busy rubbing themselves gleefully against the buds of things to come on the ornamental vine which covers the pergola at the back of my house - the sun beams down like a pontiff in a trance - the birds are a'singing and sound far better than a soprano; all is well in this part of the world. Time I think for a couple of glasses of cheap white. This is one of those days (so far) when you wouldn't be dead for quids.
Chatty, again.
Mainly for Rosie - unless there are other weather freaks on this site: 23.5°C - around 45% humidity - cloud one octer (if that) - wind chill; forget it - Barometer about 1002/3. I very rarely partake of a midday meal but, today, I am sorely tempted to sit on the back balcony and just eat the day.
Well there's win and not win.
Sky - now 7 octers+, washing in, luncheon deferred. I thought you'd be really interested ... :-) ... :-(
am, am
Warm here, sky clouding over; 24 (falling) and 49% here, 1018, slight breeze, normal for about this time of year; can see some rain off in the distance (past Mt Cootha, to the north-northwest) but doubt we'll get any. [Dujon] Wotsan octer?
Octopusses
[flerdle] 1 octer = 1 eighth (of the visible sky) cloud cover; the spelling I'm not sure of - I'm not even sure if it has a correct one, though undoubtedly it does.
Slight harrumph, since we're just at the end of a day of persistent autumnal rain (incidentally, this is one definite reason why I frown upon the use of "fall" to describe the name of the season after summer, because the word "autumnal" becomes suddenly less current), but then we are six months out of phase and this is to be expected. More rain tomorrow, I understand.
... and pretty much eight octers all day, of course.
Insulting
[snorgle, re Preview+Simulpost] The message was supposed to be tongue-in-cheek, but seeing as you've objected I've toned it down now. Not impressed at being called a gimp in such large letters though.
less insulting?
[rab]I was just replying as per the spirit of the message! I withdraw my GIMP remark..
Fairy Nuff
Luckily you didn't point out the even more embarrassing grammatical error - which now too has been excised. Play on!
heated debate
Ooo-er! I've never seen the Preview+Simulpost message, and am unlikely to now it's been 'toned down'. Shame. I like toned up stuff.
Crowded, isn't it?
What's an octer? I like rain. It's so melancholy and atmospheric. And you can think that if it were a lot colder it would be snowing. This is my favourite time of year: summer definitely over, winter to come (with the faint but tantalising possibility of snow), blue skies with frost underfoot and golden leaves falling, and Bonfire Night coming up, with Christmas on the way. Can't be beaten!
AUTUMN
[BM] Absolutely agree! I've even been known to break out in poetry at this time of year ...
painful poetry
Ooh! Sounds nasty - is it painful?

My poetry is painful
The use of time not gainful
For the looks I get are baneful
And say that it is awful!

Fall or nothing
I too enjoy Autumn - it makes the neighbours retreat inside with their getto blaster. Horrah!
Missing "H"
Ooops!
Swan-upping and leaving
There are numerous pairs of beautiful swans gracing the rivers and tributaries that lace our city centre and for the most part, are much cherished by the community. However, it's THAT time of year now ... when the grown-up swans start 'chasing' away the teenage cygnets. I was watching them this morning. They really DO shooh them away with a " get out into that big wide world, sow a few wild oats and find yourself a decent partner-for-life!" No consideration for the lack of flight practice or incomplete plumage, which is still a bit grubby looking. Oh - those poor cygnets! They mistake roads and paths for rivers and try to land, often killing themselves in the process, but more often causing mayhem, be it within their small brain or amongst the traffic. Bless them.
Weather
What's wrong with snow? You try skiing on drizzle.
It's hard work... really!
Chalky just won a round "Animal-Vegetable-Mineral-Abstract" and I must say that it's quite tiring work holding the chair. But at least I get to do some work now. Also, I was rather hoping that Wol would win (he was so close too) as he was very sporting about the previous photo-finish
question count
Yes - it took 67 questions before the correct answer. I did warn you all, when the game was mooted, that it IS time-consuming being in the chair which makes me wonder if I can 'service' another go so soon after my last one. Especially as it appears I have to undertake yet another of those tiresome gender realignments that seem to plague my on-line existence :-)
Chalky, I beg your forgiveness, really, I do... I blame society!
Yes, I may not even enter the fray on the next round just in case I win again.
utter forgiveness
[Hux] .. please don't beg! [mind you - I had to do the same with Raak after my last victory. Anyone seen him? If he appears I might just gift him this one]. My gender realignment comment was very tongue-in-cheek - not easy to convey on screen [see my posting in AVMA].
Hilarity
I thank parents everywhere who endow their young with wacky and not normally used first names. The only pleasure I get from marking 'homework' is when I come to completing the official sheets which has such names displayed in full resplendence.
Names
So that's why young Xerxes Finbar Ibid keeps claiming the teacher is laughing at him...
naming of the parts
[Ibid] And you should take care of backwards spellings too... imagine being lumbered with Dibi Rab Nif Sex Rex... Or is it just my brain that works this way?
The onset of evil Winter
[Bm] matt's told you before about airing such perverted views in public fora. Kindly desist! *turns up heating and pretends it's sunny*
Names
[pen] Possibly. Of course, google is now going to lead some people to get some odd ideas about rab...
Jack Frost
[Projoy] You can't silence us that easily!
[penelope] My brain does that too. Every word I hear, I mentally reverse. Og ouy ereht os.
Rain and odd ideas
I like rain, and confuse my hosts whenever I'm in a warmish, dryish country (say, the South of Germany) and run outside as soon as the heavens open. [Ibid] I'm sure people have enough odd ideas about me already... and this posting won't have helped.
DRAWKCAB
[pen, BM] I remember rolling about the floor laughing when my father called Val Doonican - Nacinood Lav! I was young. It's stayed with me though and I still call Star Trek - Kert Rats. I'm also quite fluent at joined-up backwards writing [mirror writing] but I'm a calligrapher so I s'pose that's not too unusual.
sinister
The only backwards thing I can do easily is the writing - with my non-dominant left hand. I also find it easier to do if I'm writing with my right hand at the same time..
Dexterity/ytiretxed
I used to enjoy mucking around with the 'mirror' writing when I was a bit younger than I am now. Still, living in the southern hemisphere perhaps enhances the skill?
retsinis
Ah, the fun we had playing with each other's names spelled backwards... [Chalky] a calligrapher? I did calligraphy O level (an 'A', natch!). My handwriting used to be pretty spectacular but it has gone downhill ever since - I blame it one reporting on town council meetings and magistrates courts without bothering to learn shorthand.
[dominance] My right side is *so* dominant... I even find it difficult to kick a ball or take a step downstairs if I have to use my left foot first.
Although right handed, I can use a computer mouse with either hand. In fact I can use two computer mice at once on two different computers. I can write better with my right foot than my left hand though.
Handwriting
[epolenep] Yes - calligrapher, although I do lots of other stuff with lettering aswell - hotel/pub signs, blackboards [hence the Chalky moniker] although I haven't used actual chalk for years. It was the '0' level that started me off aswell - but this is the first time in my life I've 'done it for a living'. After college in London, my career was in publishing, broadly speaking. My name, backwards, is very Russian.
Left vs Right
My ex-boss was a left-handed mouser despite being a right-hander since he claimed that it was more natural to type with one's right hand.
You're supposed to type with both hands.
typing
I was going to say that!
snorgs - get back into AVMA!!
innerestin
I am reasonably ambidextrous, although my right hand has had many more years practice at writing than my left. If I draw with my left hand, it's a little slower and less steady, but the emotional content of the drawings can be quite, how to say, extraodinary. I use a mouse with my right hand at work and my left at home. No particular reason. I have no eye dominance either.
[snorgle] That's cos we're symmetrical. There's a whole area of visual and developmental therapy about that sort of thing - why it's easier to mirror actions than translate from one side of the body to the other.
[Dujon] dunno. I've never actually bothered, believe it or not.
[rab] Fascinating. I know people who must listen to the phone with their right ear, to the extent that when they have to write something down, they have to do this weird crossover thing to hold the phone there.
[typing] I'm soooo glad I learnt to touch-type in high school. It saves a lot of time.
and one other thing before I go back to marking #*@$^%& assignments...
[Chalky] Here, "Chalky" is a nickname for schoolteacher. Like Brickie for builder/builder's labourer, Sparky (electrician), Chippy (carpenter)...
He was always a backwards boy...
I can still sing a fair chunk of Waltzing Matilda backwards (I believe this originally came from a character in one of the later series of the Adventure Game)
Stuff
(Dujon) It's oktas, old son. None here for several days. Water shortage next year unless we get a soaking wet winter, at least in the SE. (flerdle) One of my teachers was nicknamed Chalky, but his name was White. We also had Pinhead. We used to recite "we call him Pinhead because he is bald and his name is Steele". Taught maths; a nice man. A mate married his daughter. (re sinisterity) I'm totally southpaw, except for mouse, scissors, toothbrush and bumwipe. RH is stronger, LH cleverer. BTW an anagram of my name is "rough stud, he". I wish. :-)
anagrams
I'm rubbish at anagrams. I either get them right away or not at all!
shibbur
[Anagrams] Ain't that the way... an anagram of my name is 'Just When I Rent It' and my father's (much to my mother's amusement) worked out to be 'Rich Tart When Rid'.
[Sinisterity] Mouse, Scissors, Toothbrush, Bumwipe?!!! *chortle* Word disociation, unless I'm mistaken!
anagrams
An anagram of my name - 'THE VODKA PANTRY' - seems I can't get away from the Russian connection. Incidentally, never touch the stuff.
[penelope] Wot! your name's not penelope?!?
My name doesn't anagram well; probably one of the best is "Razz arid nerd"
anagrams?
Most anagrams of my name look like Rambling Syd Rumpo songs...I blame the four Gs.
Here's one
"Leg ringer - glory jog"...which is a euphoric dance done after getting Shane Warne, Richie Benaud, or JLE to be on your club XI. :)
Puzzlers
Here I am trying to guess all your real names and can only conclude you're a rather bizarrely monikered bunch what with Horst de Ughu (Rosie) and Petra van Kodthy (Chalky) in our midst. Mind you, that Dexter 'Anal' Relhirdy-Bach sounds like a dubious character...
anagramattic
I can only offer Large parrot ambush...
'Daq Update
Ahnold has hit £1k/share....gaaah!
Large parrots
[GIII] Now that one is easy to decode...
Anagram names
I've never worked out an anagram of my name. But from the evidence given, I suspect the real name of "penelope" to be Justine, with Richard being her father's (surname eight letters: E,H,I,N,R,T,T,W in alphabetical order). Not sure about Chalky but she could well be a Kathryn (remaining surname letters A,D,E,O,P,T,V). Graham (surname from A,B,E,L,O,P,R,R,S,T,U, unless you've used a middle name as well) and Darren (surname, if this is to be believed, from A,D,I,R,Z,Z) may be using their real first names here. Not sure about Rosie, but s/he could be a Hugh (remaining surname letters D,E,O,R,S,T,U)...

Anybody got a good anagram for "Jonathan Ellis"?

Handedness: I'm right-handed in most things, but ambidextrous when piano-playing or trying to catch things one-handed. Can't throw or write left-handed. Feet are not so much ambidextrous as ambi-sinister (equally incompetent with both, when playing football), and I think I favour my left eye more than my right.

Real names?
Pen: I believe you are right.
Chalky: Dunno.
G3: Dunno.
Darren: Not a clue.
Rosie: He. Sorta close.
You: the best I come up with is "Johann Ale List"....
[JLE] Using ag(), the best I can get is "jail tonal hens", "Jean halts lion", "jeans halt lion", "join Hell, Satan", "hasten, join all", "jeans into hall", and "shallot in Jean".
My name has four H's and 9 vowels vs. 17 consonants so it's practically impossible to get anything.
Marks out of five?
Darren's surname seems likely to be Izzard. I can see why it's a bugger to anagram. Penelope's is trickier- all those consonants. I'm going to go for 'Whittern', as the most likely of an unlikely bunch of alternatives ('Penelope Threwtin', anyone?) Graham is indeed, I think, using a middle name. After a long blind alley in which I was convinced his surname was either Butler, I'm now going with 'Graham Paul Roberts' If Rosie is indeed named Hugh, his surname might be 'Stroude'. But from Dr Q's comment, I suspect s/he isn't. Maybe by 'sorta', Dr Q was hinting that the surname is Hugh, or more likely Hughes. But that leaves a pretty odd bunch of letters to make a first name out of- is there such a first name as 'Tudor'? Finally, I don't think Chalky's name is Kathryn, since we have the additional clue that spelt backwards it looks Russian. I therefore suggest she is that well-known Muscovite 'Yhtak Tropnevad', otherwise known as Kathy Davenport.
Proof Reading
Ahem. Either Butler or Porter. Not just 'either of these two butlers'.
granamas
Jonathan Ellis? Hmmm... how about 'Jeans Hit Noll', 'Ah Jell in Snot', 'Halt Sloe Jinn', 'All Hens Joint'or even 'Anal Hens I Jolt'? I could go on, but I won't - I'll just point you here.
I'm useless
by 'here, I meant - http://www.wordsmith.org/anagram/index.html
revealed
[Prof Plum] Smartarse. And have you Googled me too?
Well, Prof, it's not that hard to deduce my name as I already gave it away in Orange some time ago!!! My anagram software of choice is Anagram Genius which is absolutely superb. They also make Crossword Maestro which solves cryptic crossword clues. (And no, I didn't use it to solve Wol's, in case you're wondering!)
Anagrams again
I think I'll adopt "Join Hell, Satan" as my Official Anagram ;-)
[Darren] I'm flattered you thought it might be necessary! Oh, and if anyone's interested, I'm ADDIIIKLLNVW. But there's a clue somewhere in the archives.
Another way to find our real names
[Prof Plum] Try the old PantsMC Profiles.
Half a quarter
[Rosie] Thanks for the clarification - I've only ever heard the word and never read it. I was going to check but became sidetracked and then forgot. Interesting that your right hand is the stronger even though you are basically left handed. My wife and son are both a bit of each. The son writes left handedly but does many right handed movements - including eating. My wife on the other hand (sorry!) eats back to front but writes with her right hand - perhaps as a result of the inconsiderate influence of school teachers in days of yore.
Mix and Match
Incidentally, Rosie, your name could be altered to 'Hough duster' which, I suppose, would indicate that you may be a butcher's assistant?
Names
My name actually is Breadmaster. You can imagine the ribbing I got at school.
Anagrams
(Prof Plum) 5 out of 5 for your final guess. Unfortunately, a further anagram is "oh, huge turds". (The best type, in my experience). (Dr Q) Can't figure out your surname, even if I've got your first name right. Is it British-ish?
Named!
[Rosie] No, Dad's side is German.

[BM] Were you baked? :)
I win
I BET you can't guess my name. Anagram is 'I am a ferret penn'. I'll check in and see how you're getting on ;)
[Bm] Is that why your publisher insisted on "Hill" as a pseudonym?
prunings
Ian Prefenmater?
[Angus] How about "Anne-Marie Petfer" or "Ferna P. Tremaine" or "Farmer Pete Nani" or "Martin A. Penfree" or "Nate F. Repairmen"?
[Angus] Ian Peter Freman?
I think I did this before...
CMd; dCM; dMC; MdC; McD. Oh. You mean real names...
There's nothing quite like...
Hm. McD kind of suits you, CdM.
Pseudonymous writes
[Raak] That's right, the unimaginative fools.
So they called you Breadmaster Hill then?
There ought to be a prize if anyone managed to get my name out of "OUI A MANGLED WIG".
blaine
Well, Blaine's out now, so hopefully I'll make some dosh on celebdaq. I found it odd, though, that he sounded rather like Jack Nicholson after he got out! Also, I'm sure that some cockney shouted something like "You're a wanker!" in the background as he was being released.
[Lotus] Yes, but then you *do* descend from several improbably mixed nationalities ;-)
"Why, O dramatist?" (Lines that should have been written by someone else)
Who am I? Arty st d.?
S. Mith (a wry toad)?
Martha (DIY swot)?
__tim__ (a sad worthy)
Thos (am a dry wit)?
Matt (why so arid?)?
Or Watty? ("Hm" said
A Tay wordsmith,
"What a dim story.")
Out of a mangled wig
LotUS] Nice to meet you Luigi Gawedoman.
Cross-posted to MCiOS
I'd just like to report a conversation that just happened right infront of my very eyes in my office:

Scene: Manager is talking to new resource who has arrived in Paris and who had his cellphone stolen on his first day here.

Manager: So what did you think of your "welcome" to Paris?
Employee: Yes, I went walking at the weekend.
Manager: No. I mean your "welcome" to Paris.
Employee: Oh! Thank you.
Manager: Nevermind.
[JLE] Well, yes, that's true. But my name is more or less entirely 'Asian' with an Arabic/Muslim first name and a Sinhalese surname.
[BtD] Not even close but it's a great idea for a pseudonym!
crossposted from MCiOS
[Chalky] You know you were asking whether we had a make-up artist. Well, we still don't and only just over a week to go, so if you have any leads now's the time to mention them. :-)
I saw some Sinhalese writing a while back, it had a really lovely look, all circles and spirals. That observation isn't really relevant to anything, it's just LotUS's comment reminded me of it.
Sinning
Yes it is very beautiful - learn about it here.
ISIHaC - been there, done that
[Tuj, BtD & anyone else who's interested] We had a truly splendid time at the Theatre Royal Winchester last night. I won't spoil anything by talking about either the guest or the content - [the shows go out on the 17 & 24 Nov as the first two of the series] - but I'll be interested to hear how they edit at least 2 and a half hours of quality stuff into neat half hour slots. It's a small theatre - perfect for comedy. On several occasions the tears really were rolling down my cheeks. Humph was magnificent [doesn't he work hard?] and we even managed to 'mingle with the stars' after the recording.
[Tuj] re. your comments in AVMA - I managed to get tickets because penelope, back in the summer, on receipt of the BBC4 online newsletter [or suchlike], posted in MCiOS the 3 venues and dates for this series. I'm only half an hour's drive from Winchester so I rang the theatre - all tickets were sold within 2 hrs. We were lucky.
ISIHAC
So unfair... My partner saw it live ten years ago, so my chances of going to see it are slim I feel. Back to the anagrams, would it help you to guess if I told you I'm not male?
Cinderella Hawk Beam
You can get some quite rude anagrams from my real name.
A top dative MS jinx
Michael!?
Hello hello hello, what's all this, then?
[Angus Prune] Do you have a long surname?
Ms? Prune
Angus] Marie Fen-Patern?
Evenin' all
Sorry Boolbar X-posted.
Names...
Got it. Boolbar is Native American - Michael Elk Bear Dawn.
ISIHAC
[Chalky] Having seen it in Bournemouth (Pavilion Theatre, Mon 30th Oct, 2000, 7:30pm, as my treasured ticket tells me - and Sandi Toksvig laughter rings in my ears yet) not too long ago, my memory should have recalled you need to be pretty sharp to get'em. Never mind.
anagrams
and so is no-one going to identify my earlier anagrammatical impersonation?
Projoy?
anagrammatical impersonator
All anagrams of Timothy Saward - damned clever :-)
anagrammaticaphylactic shock
[Cdm] that is so clever
Request
Projoy - could you email me? (crossposted from Orange, for which I apologise)
*blush*
[CdM] And what's more, I puzzled over them for ages yesterday. I'm also completely rubbish at Countdown too. [Dunx] Email received and replied to.
How?
[Ibid] So close!
Michael Andrew Blake
...meet David Willink.
[MF] Correcto! - just the wrong order
grama nams
CdM] That was brilliant.
Boolbar] Nice to meet you Blake Micheal Andrew.
Random Horrid Wreckage
...is my favourite anagram of my (full) real name.
Pretty please.
Could I just repeat my request for the monthly music supplement that came in last Sundays Observer? *waves money*
[FG] Mick God-Adorer H. Warren? Sounds like a tele-evangelist. :o)
An anagram of my full real name....
...would be longish. I wonder if I can come up with one.
[FG] Ow! Order keg, mr Arachnid!
Observer Music
[Boolbar] I think I can get a copy from a friend this evening. Where do I send it again?
stuff at boolbar plop vispa plop com
[Chalky] Ooooh! That would be splendid! email above. expenses paid etc.
E-mail
[Boolbar] Am wondering if I translated your email address correctly. If so, there should be one waiting for you.
spam spam spam spam
[Chalky] Yes, you are nestling between the nice African chappy who wants to share his fortune with me and the breast enlargement emails.
Anagrams
I'm feeling kinda jealous of all the people with glib anagrams, like Fat German.
Ana-kilo-gram
[Néa] The short form of your name yields "Lager liken manna"...whatever that means. I'm currently feeding your full name (assuming it really *is* what you put on your webpage :) into my anagram generator...which is unfortunately on a SparcClassic 50MHz box....
back in my day muttermuttermutter
Real anagrammarians don't use technology beyond paper and pen, that's what I say. .. :-)
Ana-mega-gram
[CdM] You try her name with paper/pen then!

[Néa] I can get the word "Goddess" out of it, which should shorten it up a bit. :D
Can anyone identify what this is an anagram of? Patch cocky, bent grammar.
Oh, by the way, an anagram of "Real anagrammarians don't use technology beyond paper and pen" is "Damnable, general-purpose gonorrhea contaminates Andy-Pandy."
deary me
Yikes! I get all caught up and don't visit for a couple of days, and look what happens! This is all a bit too tiring to think about at the moment.

Oh, and no more spiders for the time being.

Even more anagrams
flerdle = "Censored pearl". :)
You've all gone really strange
Hmmmmmm.
very well then, Dr Q,...
Here is a list of things that Nea likes.

Start:
JRR Tolkien
Tea
Miranda
Mets
Language
End.

(OK, I might have lied about one of them...)
Here's some anagrams of Néa's full name (assuming the one on the site is real), taking the é as an e.
"Maladjusted, tiger-like, stagnant, rare ornament."
"Jauntier, darkened, meatiest, gallant strong-arm."
"Radiant man-eater strangulating molested jerk."
"A daunting tearjerker demonstrates I'm gallant."
"Maladjusted Terminator enraging rattlesnake."
"Rattling junk arrangement misleads toad-eater."
"Alert sugarlike madman and ignorant jet-setter."
"Major rattling as gentleman streaked, urinated." shame she's not a man in this case!
"Talented alarmist and jauntier strong-arm geek."
"I am a daring, non-judgemental streaker. Let start!"
"Strong, dreamlike talent and jauntier megastar."
"Transmitted ranking as talented major-leaguer."
"I am, ranking adjustments, a grander teetotaller."
I could go on with these!
Actually..
Hope those don't annoy Néa too much. Sorry if they do, but that's what the program came up with (along with several thousand others).
aaaaarrrrggghhhhhh
[DrQ] I think i prefer "ponder cereals"
Red Fell
Close panderer?
Red Fell
Or a spec lender? (Red spec loaner)
Spread clorene?
One disadvantage ef anagram programs is that they will tend to come up with real words.

What do you mean, "That's the point"? Harrumph.

Patch cocky, bent grammar
[Darren] Do you know what it is ? Is it a name ?
Annoyed??
I'm flattered! (Not to mention rolling around laughing.)
Managra
I have found out that my name works out as: Lanky Baron Bronchitis!
[Boolbar] Yeah, I know what it is. I made it. No, it's not a name (well, not in the conventional sense).
However
Sorry, Darren, but I'm more impressed with CdM's list - I don't think he used any anagram software to extract "JRR Tolkien" from my name ;-) (and who says I don't like the Mets? I'm a basketball aficionado, I am!)
anagrams
[Boolbar] Apologies for late reply - no I do not have a long surname - both names are 7 letters long
[AP] Surname = Freeman?
Crossposted from everywhere, but the last time, I promise
A final plug for Dracula - The Vampire Strikes Back - on at a theatre probably not too near you next week (Fri night already sold out!), and written by Thos and myself, and achieved with assorted much-appreciated support from the talented Martha, Dunx, gil, Chalky, Darren, matt, Lib and blamelewis (I think that's everyone).
Boolbar
Yes. 1st prize witheld till you get the first name though.
wild guess
Petela?
that's only got six though. hmmm
aaah
I see, forgot the last n.
left field
Pantele would be sufficiently obscure. If you were sort of Greek.
Anagrams
A bit of effort on my own (full) name yielded:Phronje nebricist, hish rahm mupe.
Or the more realistic, if odd: Screen obit.: Humph Jr. in Hampshire
Garbology
[Tuj] Christopher Benjamin Humphrie (or some combination thereof) perhaps?
No, I think Tuj must be his initials. Now, the T is obviously Thomas, which is straightforward enough. The U is trickier -- a google search for "first name beginning with U" reveals Uffe as the only possibility; I must assume that he spells it Uphphe, though. And then the last name falls into place easily. You stand exposed ... Thomas Uphphe Jirribschreinnem!
10 points to Dujon
First 2 the wrong way round, and the surname missing an S at the end (think that's my fault), but right nonetheless. Until I go and change it to what CdM suggetsted, of course.
mane
My name's an anagram of "I'm tired" [CdM] LOL
mealweblis
Sounds better than "dim rite", anyway :-)
Oh, huge turds
(flerdle) Tim Reid? Gotta be!
anagrams
My full name is -- I bent cute lean ice frogs.
flerdle
Don't have an l in my name. In alphabetical order, first name is aeinprt.
more results
And there has been another change to the top of the celebrity league, well really what I mean is its snorgle .... again!!!! A majestic run allegedly started in August and interrupted breifly just three times .
Angus
I have NO idea where I got that from. Ah well.
celebdaq
Mwoohahaha! I have downtraded to just under 1 million, so fingers crossed for next week - let's see.. I wonder if it's too early for another Keanu binge?
[AP] Ah ... you must be a Petrina then. Please say you don't live anywhere near Salisbury, Wiltshire. I have knowledge of a Petrina in this area who's a bit erm ..

[snorgs] Well done gal. Perhaps you can tell me - WHY OH WHY when for the first time, I put my ten grand on a Royal thinking he's going to get shedloads of column cms because of What The Butler Did - his chuffin' share price goes down?

'daq
[snorgle] I'm set up for a Wayne Rooney payoff myself, but I haven't heard about his 18th birthday blow-out yet.
chalky
I'm constantly expanding my knowledge of Petrinas. There's very few of us around. I know of just two others - plus that one in Salisbury. Can you define 'a bit erm..'? I don't know what you mean. I'm not her though!
anagrams
Names, from first to last: 7, 6, y.
anagrams
I mean 7, 6, 8
rarity?
There was a girl at school a year after me called Petrina Green. This was not a large school, either. I see nothing unusual in the name.
Petrina?
I've never seen that name before it was mentioned here.
aabdddeghhIjlnnooorsvw
Clues: Three 'given' names - all common - and one 'family' name. Origin of family name, N.W. England (and, surprisingly quite a few in Ireland.) No I am not a 'scouse' and the family name does not begin with O'. Them as have seen my real name are constrained from posting; it'd hardly be fair! I must admit that I've never attempted an anagram of my names, so it will be interesting to see what appears on this page.
Memories....
I knew a Petrina who was at secondary school with me in Somerset, I think she moved to Yeovil - poor thing.
Tina the Ice Frog
Is your first name Rebecca? I can also get Tina from your letters but 7,6,8 won't allow it. I have a feeling I'm overlooking something obvious...
no c's
No Rebecca here. And Tina can be a nickname. In fact is.
Not a Becca
Hmm. Am I barking up the wrong tree assuming that you are Female?
Petrinas
[Huxley] Did she look like a witch?
[Angus] Definition of 'a bit erm ...' see above :-)
Qualifying street
Chalky] Do you mean 'a bit erm' in the assumption of gender sense or do you mean that I am 'a bit erm' too?
Tina] - I'd better qualify that 'cos you've said your nick-name is Tina...
Nicknames can be very deceptive. I knew a Fairy (male), a Pinny (male), a Pog (female) and a Beardy (female). I am male and was (boringly) hailed by surname.
Chalky] Oops. You meant she looked like a ...
What a dickhead I am :o)
Genderbiased
Bob]Yes, female, today anyway.
Chalky
[Huxley]Yes she did. At the time, her last name began with an "H" and ended with an "R".
chuckling at Bob
[Bob] Ah! So you don't look like a witch, eh? More like a dic.....
Lost
I could be wrong but it appears we haven't worked out the following

DrQu+xum - "Leg ringer - glory jog"
Wol - "ADDIIIKLLNVW"
LotUS - "OUI A MANGLED WIG" (my name is more or less entirely 'Asian' with an Arabic/Muslim first name and a Sinhalese surname)
Fat German - "Random Horrid Wreckage"
Uncle Korky - "Lanky Baron Bronchitis"
Tina - "I bent cute lean ice frogs" (7,6,8)
and Dujon's recent "aabdddeghhIjlnnooorsvw" above.
Also Darren asked "Can anyone identify what this is an anagram of? Patch cocky, bent grammar".
So no work for me today then.
[DrQ] Gregory?

Or "A top dative MS jinx"
Uncle K
Tranbon? Bontran?
Wol
David Winkill?
The Gettin' Aquainted Game
Blimey - at this rate we'll all be on first 'real' name terms pretty soon. Having done the birthdays/starsigns, I wonder what's next on the disclosure list? I have to say, though, it's rab I feel the most sympathy for - having to go through life with the surname Angrycake.
Huxley's Somerset Petrina
sorrysorrysorry multipost
I don't think it's the same one, Hux. Phew! The one here in Salisbury, apart from resembling a she-bat, was once extremely and unnecessarily rude to my mother, which I suppose somewhat colours my opinion of her.
Here we go
[Boolbar] Yup, but I usually go by my surname...and the J is just my middle initial.
[Btd] Winkill? That sounds like a wonderful suggestion. :)
[Duj] And all this time I thought VK2IUI was your name!
Anagrams
My dear old mum is 92 today - alive and well. Anyone like to have a go at the wonderful anagram of her maiden name - "Golden Manure". Two Welsh names.
Yes,but...
Willink sounds more likely, as I mentioned earlier.
[Rosie] Megan Lounder?
Du what jon?
Dujon] Ah ha! Do I have the pleasure of the company of Dr John Vollowbangs?
mum's the word
[Rosie] My grannie turns 94 in a couple of weeks. Her maiden name was rather odd/unusual, and comes out as "Shock Fido: beep!"
...or should that be ORKNEY LUCK...?
[Martha] I have to confess that I have an unconventional middle name (which was, in fact, my late mother's maiden name)...
Branton?
AABEEHHILMOTTSZ
Feeling the need to join in, although can't create a witty anagram so you just get the letters. (9,6)
Tricky these German names, eh, Tobias Hählmetz?
A ham Bizet hostel - Elizabeth Thomas
Lib
The Omaha Blitzes
Atomize hash belt
The Zambia hotels
And one that was *almost* interesting: Hot Blithe amazes.... :)
Re: Lib
"Blaze hot, his team!"
Lifting the disguise
[BtD] Very good! You've discovered that it indeed is Elizabeth Thomas in the drawing room with the lead piping!
Wiry Naked Anarch
Chuckling
[Btd] Nice one! At least the 'John' is right. ... :-)
Grow a penis
Not an insult or personal attack on any of you, but rather a classic American political anagram.
[DrQ, re your last] Omg.
Bang to rights.
[Martha] Got it in one!
flerdle's grandma
"coke-fed bishop".
Daq daq daq
As the league seems to be diminishing, I can offer my 3rd & 4th personas to fill any vacant places...
Concerning Tom's rent
I'm hopeless at anagrams. Plus, I think everyone knows my name - but just in case you don't, I will cheat..(and use one of those internet anagram thingies) Bam Sally on chin
Red carpet
Uncle Korky] I'd be willing to add your other accounts to the league, my greatest fear would be if snorgle opened a second or third with different potfolios. I have considered opening a third as a holding account with a couple of blue chip stock, then wait for a news story (which could take weeks). That way it can be put to one side bobbing around the bottom, just to be opened on fridays to check the divis. Its a different stategy I haven't tried yet. Anyone else?.
Post your id when your ready.
celebdaq
Don't worry! I can't be bothered to open up any others - this one seems to be going just fine. I don't know why I do so well, I just sink all my money into one or two of the most popular shares that I think will be in the papers a lot, and it seems to work. I also read the forums as they tend to name the popular ones - that was why last week I was 50/50 on Blaine and Tweedy.
Winkill
[Btd] I like it! - but MF was spot on. [Dujon] David Andrew John Blooghs? (One of the famous Blooghs brothers ...) - the capital I was cunning.
snorgle
Haven't figured out your name, but your letters come up with another anagram so incredibly wrong, I'm posting in white letters and already getting my coat. my balls on a chin
Stuff
(snorgle) Allison (or Alison) unusual-or-non-British-surname? (Martha Farquar) Mum's maiden name was Eluned Morgan. (Dr Q) Gregory J. Gollinger?
if you can't beat them.
well I have been looking at you lot and decided I would see what happeend with my name (christian/family)......I quite liked the following :-
Shrill Pit Probe.
Rebirth Psi Poll.
Bellhop Trip Sir ?
Brothels Rip Lip.
Brie Thrills Pop !
Hill Tribe Props.
Pre-British Poll.
Lo! Birth Ripples !
Both Reps Ill: RIP.
....or Help Lib Strip?
Poll B : I strip her.
ventriloquist Q?
[Dr Q] Gottle of Gollinger? :oD
Foo!
[Rosie] You should've known that already -- you've gotten e-mails from me before :P My great-grandmother's family were Morgans as well. Her whole dad's side came over circa 1870 and mined throughout Western Pennsylvania.
[pen] I'll have you know my dad is an amateur winemaker.... I'd send you some but I wager such stuff would not be exactly legal for export.
[St Dogmael] Is your name by any chance Robert Phillips? Or Philip R. Lobster? ;-)
nanny grams
[Rosie]Unusual given name (ie not english). [DrQ] :D
spot on !
JLE] Indeed it is. My sister is called Helen Lobster.
World of Petrinas
It is strange that everyone else's knowledge of the name is of someone who is a complete cow, or mental case! I hope I don't fit into that category...[goes off to worry in a corner] Just for the record, I've never lived in Salisbury or Yeovil or indeed anywhere in Somerset.
I'm always impressed by how dull anagrams of my name tend to be - I know I'd be pretty unhappy with seeing my name on a Scrabble rack.
Pert Deer Rang
That should take you a couple on minutes to decipher.
After a couple of minutes...
Peter Gardner, I presume?
Capital
[Wol] Sorry about the capital 'i', my error; at least being in alphabetical order must have helped. David is correct, so one given and the family name now required.
It appears I'm back.
Oy!
[Angus Prune] I said nothing of the sort!
Name appreciation
It's funny how one's reaction to a name can be coloured by the looks and personality of those one has met who carry such. To be honest my input to the naming of our daughter was certainly influenced by that aspect - damned if I know why as I am usually reasonably pragmatic (I think.) However, I did do my two children a disservice - although totally unintentionally - when they turned out to be Peter & Wendy ... some parents should be drawn and quartered!
One additional thing to think about, if you desire to avoid pain and suffering to your progeny: try to avoid using a vowel as the first letter of a middle name. Always look at what the initials spell. No joking.
Self-defence
(Dr Q) All I knew from your emails is that you were "Greg". The rest is informed guesswork. (Dujon) 3 given names, eh? As I know the answer I must shut up. (St Dogmael) Proper shit, Bill. Er, sorry.
Correctness
You are so right, flerdle. Together with my wife I attempted to make sure that there were no 'hidden' embarrassments. At the last minute (were we not stupid!) my daughter's second given name became Katherine. [Rosie] Given that you know my family name, I'm assuming that you have worked out (not too hard) the 'missing' one? Anyhoooo, schtum; it should not be too hard for the others.
middling
I don't have a middle name... none of my sisters do, neither did my father, and it was because my grandfather hated his that the tradition began. I sometimes thought that was why we were given rather more exotic first names than the norm (at the time we were born).
Parental naming.
If a different sperm gained victory, I would be called Elizabeth. As it was I narrowly avoided being Ashley (horrah!)
Increasing schizophrenia
[Inkspot] My other accounts are:
Mavic_Chen (3402569) &
Johnny_McDozenlegs (3411069).
proper shit, bill!
rosie] that's the best yet ! I must say I would have quite liked the initials RIP. :o) As it is I am RDP, which I also quite like I suppose, especially as it appears to be written at the edges of Fuji 120 roll film (RDP III) so I claim it ALL as my own. Apparently I was named after an Argentinian Golfer (Roberto di Vicenza)
Stuff
(St Dog) I didn't use an anagram-finder; it's just my filthy mind. If I had one of those dismal personalised car reg's the prime one for me would, I suppose, be 1TCH. My middle name is even more unusual and Welsh than my first name, and maybe unique at the present time, though you can find it on a map. No clues.
...and I claim my £5!
[Rosie] Tudor Clwyd Hughes?
'Y' reg - why Reg?
I was amused by a van in front of me with rearranged reg. M3 0W MY and disappointed in a car owner who missed the opportunity to rearrange A 12 SED.
wordage
Saw a sign outside a hairdresser's yesterday - 'Due to short staff, we will close at 4.30 today'. Also one in Ann Summers fitting room 'Please ask for assistance before entering' - had to share with the MC community! [flerdle]Which bit in particular?
Personal Plates
[Rosie] Well, I've tried to keep my personalised plates fairly simple - when I had an Audi A3 in Britain, I bought the plate "A3 DNX" (I saw at least one other A3 owner who had bought an "A3" plate too, so it wasn't just me). My TT here in Oregon has the plate "TT DNX" to maintain the tradition.

I saw quite an amusing one the other day... Oregon allows you to put pretty much any combination of six characters on your plate, with spacing of your choice. Usually the characters are centred, but someone had thought to put spaces in front of their word and: "  ASKEW"

Well, I liked it.

trying to remember...
[Angus Prune] The one I know is nice, not a weirdo.
Angus] I know a nice one too. Odd how experiences of names colour expectations. I always expect anyone called Tom to be fat. Josephines are manic and Phils are exceptionally hairy. I am a James...
That's interesting -- I've always remarked on the fact that everyone I've met named Brad has been a complete dickhead. Apologies to any Brads reading this...
Being hammered.
Bloody Hell!
It's bad enough being nailed down from time-to-time without being pilloried. (S'OK, Riff - only joking.)
Names
(Uncle K) Good guess! But wrong. Carry on. (B the D) To me, Josphines are...well...luscious, as are Sophies. (Dunx) Nice to see a bit of wit on a car plate. Don't get much of it over here. (All) Unfortunately, names can be a dead giveaway of social class and age though there are agreeable and surprising exceptions. I'd think I'd better stop there.
I'm possible
[Rosie] Surely not 'Cardiff'? That would be unique!
Brads and Sophies and Jims - oh my!
Sophies are a bit thick in my experience. My only experience of a Brad was from Neighbours years ago, and James is my father - nuff said! Sarahs and Jennies will always be the school bullies and Carol the friendly Brownie Guide leader!
Carols and Vals
I think I had a Brownie Leader called Val and a Guide Leader called Carol. Helens were in charge of the school playgound, Rebeccas were always lovely, Richards were always mean to me when I was 11 and Marks were good at football.
Just in case
Never trust a Richard, that's what I say...
If you think I've been unfair on Toms and Jos...
Angus] I shall have to start wearing cardigans with leather elbow patches, smoking a pipe, reading the Sunday Times and asking the terrier to bring me my burgundy slippers then ;o)
Tracys are treacherous, Janets are kind, Lucys are imaginative, Peters are usually elderly, Johns are traditional and go to Church and/or have high moral fibre, Gareths are wily psychopaths, Steves are tough on the outside (but are marshmallow inside), Elizabeths are erotic, Julians are skinny, Joans are demanding and Mikes are obsessive and keep Pugs.
wading in ...
OK - may as well join the name-fest. All opinions grossly coloured by personal experience, naturally...
Ben's are brooding and charismatic; Paul's are sexy; Tim's are cute and need mothering; John's are very much as Bob has described [ = stuffy and a tad pompous], Mike's are alcoholics and every Andy I've known has been 'a bit of a geezer'. Oh yes - Charlie's are unfailingly popular, good company and amusing.
More prejudice
May as well 'do' some girls to even up the score. Kates are jolly and outgoing, whereas Catherines (and their various misspelt namesakes) are more reserved but usually a good egg. Jennys tend to be quiet and a bit secretive, Lucys prim and proper on the outside but probably quite wild inside whilst Sarahs are uptight and very image-conscious. Meanwhile I'm afraid that nearly every Laura I've ever met has been dull, dull, dull...
Back to Rosie's middle name
Colwyn? Conwy? Carnmarthen? Caernarfon? Caerphilly? Caldicot? Crickhowell? Chepstow? Criccieth? Clynnog? Ceredigion? Cwmdu? Cadair-Idris? Cambrian Mountains (The)?
girls
I never met a Claire that I didn't like so far. Also I seem to have a lot of Helen variants in my life at the moment [Sister Helen. flatmate Helena, good friend Hélène] and they are also all lovely. Tom's are usually very nice chaps though clumsy. Justines normally work in PR for Renault, and have very corny senses of humour.
Rosie] It's Carn-Ingli isn't it ?
indignant
rab] Misspelt? Misspelt? I'll have you know that the 'K' version of my name is just as traditional. Having said that, my particular spelling is unashamedly American - something to do with my father having the hots for the film star, Kathryn Grayson [so my mother tells me].
It's taken 2 simulposts to get this posting on to the screen ... must be busy 'out there'.
Simulposts
Simulposts part deux
Sorry Chalky, one of those would have been me misspelling Carmarthen.
simulsimulsimulposts
No apology necessary, Bigsmith. It's every man/woman for themselves. BTW - nice to see you :-)
stereo-typing similposts
rab] (yes!) I have to agree on the Laura front. Elaines are tall and broad (matronly), Joys are fey, Claires are outgoing and charismatic, Zoes are irresistible to all men and pretend they don't know it, Megans go to Cambridge Uni and get firsts, Felicitys are faithful and "enthusiastic”, Susans are calm and smart, Sandras are good at drawing dogs, Joannes are maternal, Julies work in travel agencies and K©atherines work so hard it makes an 82 hour week seem like a holiday in the Maldives.

On the bloke front, Daves, Petes, Donalds, Kevins, Rogers, Phils, Zebedees, Jamess etc are intimidated by Elaines, charmed by Joys, befriended by Claires, teased by Zoes, put in their place by Megans, married to Felicitys, sorted out by Susans, uncomfortable with Sandras, comfortable with Joannes, itemised by Julies and reprimanded by K©atherines for making such sweeping generalisations about female personalities.
First Ladies
I find it is the first letter that counts. I generally find that women with names beginning with J or K to be great all-rounders. E's are usually friendly and have a thing about Cliff Richard. A's are aggresive. B's are lacking in the brain department. M's and R's are beautiful but with problems. T's make for good wives. W's are off with the fairies. Z's are good at putting men down with lightning wit. C's tend to hide away and N's would be good at running the country.
My middle name
(Bigsmith, Duj, St D) None of the above. You may need a larger-scale map. Also it's the name (or pen-name) of a long-dead Welsh poet. Definitely not Chirk, which may just resonate with ex-Pants members, or, thank God, Cwmbran.
[CK]ath[ea]?r[iy]ne?s
(...for those who understand Perl regexps...)

[Chalky] Tongue-in-cheek, of course. The spelling doesn't really matter, but there is definitely a distinction between Kates, Katies and the above...

[BtD] Have to agree with you on almost all of those. I would also lump Jo(h)annas in with your Joannes... Also is it just me, but girls with hyphenated names can be a bit wet, possibly deriving from an indecision on the part of their parents.

[rab] :-) I get called Katy quite a lot by certain friends - must be when I'm being jolly. But usually I'm Kathryn to my mother, and Kathy to everyone else. The only name I object to is Kath - which always sounds like the cleaning lady. Anyway - enough of me ...
[Rosie] Do we know how many letters there are in your mysterious, geographical, extremely rare, begins with C middle name?
first letters..
What about S? (My real first name starts with S too..)
Sssss
[snorgle] S's usually wear woolly jumpers in the summer and laugh a lot.
continued exposure
[snorgle] Bam Sally On Chin? Did anyone get your anagram? If not - what's the letter split, I'll try and guess it.
Bool] What about J's?
[BtD] See above for female J's. I don't find it works for males.
i do not wear woolly jumpers in the summer!
chalky - 7 and 7..
My middle name that no-one knows
(Chalky) There are seven. People in Wales would know it. About 15 years ago I had a nasty car smash (not my fault, for once) in Croydon, Whitehorse Road. The police had to be called because the car was blocking the road and the copper who took my name was Welsh. He pronounced my middle name better than I did. Very embarassing, because my own speech, while mostly RP, has a good dash of saaf London in it. (snorgle) Surname Binchly? First name - I wouldn't be so bold. (Chalky, again) A friend has a daughter Kathryn (b. 1972) who now wishes to be called Kay. There's a main street in Croydon called Katharine Street, but the interesting thing is that locals, including me, always pronounce the last syllable to rhyme with "wine", "dine", "line" etc. There you go, as Melvyn Bragg would say.
Miss Pronunctiation
[Rosie] "ine" as in "wine"? Not a bad idea, I suppose, but my daughter's middle name rhymes with 'in', 'bin', 'sin' - which, in retrospect, was probably the correct thing to do. ... ;-) On your middle name, I shall drag out the atlas and have a hunt.
[snorgle] I am 'stumped' at the moment ... possibly my grey matter playing up ... Is your first name one which you would consider as common or is it rather unusual (as per Rosie's middle title)?
Bum
Off to Leeds for the day, so I'll probably have to bow out of the current round of AVMA guessage. Oh well... also slightly hungover after a complicated situation involving two bad pubs, three bottles of wine, a colleague of my nearest and dearest and my housemate...
Welsh poets
Rosie> Would it be Ceiriog, from John Ceiriog Hughes (1832-1887)? The surname led me to it. Also a small forest near Wrexham. If this isn't right then I'm afraid I for one will need another clue as I'm otherwise stumped. Chalky> Nice to be back ;-)
naming of names
snorgle] Sybilla?.
Rosie] By jove - I think B'Smiths got it!
Re. the 'wine' at the end of Katherine - 'tis heard in many a Shakespearean romp - enables the acTORRRR to en-UN-ciate and prrro-JECT the name in the finest tradition of Luvvie Deliverrreh [think Brian Blessed in The Taming of the Shrew].
Sybilla? Binchley? :D
My first name isn't in english, to be fair. My surname starts with 3 consonants, but isn't foreign.
snorgle's name
Oh, is it "Tchea-Fruit" like in Neopets?
Snorgling
Siobhan?
Neopets?
Darren, all those drugs are bad for you. You should stop taking them now. ooh simulpost! That's right Bob the Dog! My surname goes well with it too...
making up new names . . . .
simulposted twice ! [snorgle] Siobhan McNally?
And I now see that BtD got there first . . . .
Stuff
(Bigsmith) Congratulations. That's me. Not sure about the forest you mention, but there's a river and village with the name. See http://www.chirk.com/ceiriog.html My Dad was from Glynceiriog. Bit of a writer himself. (Chalky) Never thought of it that way, the streets of Croydon not being awash with thespians. Another example could be Gilbert and Sullivan's "conservatives", rhyming with "knives". (snorgle) Would one of those three consonants be a "y"? Hmm...I'll have to have a think.
Little McNally?
Bool - great minds etc. - simulposted 4 times!. My message was to be
"simulposted! [snorgle] Siobhan McNally?"
Uncanny McNally
Gimmie pie
I have just been offered some pumpkin pie, fresh from the oven and made with our own eggs and pumpkins. Wow it is good! Anyone else for a slice? snorgle] Are we right?
I'll shut up soon
Siobhan - is this you?
namesakes
Yep - you're all right. Except for Rosie. [Bob the dog] No, although I've seen that before! Apparently my namesake works for the Sunday Mirror.. there's also a Queen of the Universe!
Ceiriog Valley
(Rosie) Checked out the website - I've been thereabouts, many years ago on a canal boat holiday on the Llangollen. I was therefore most interested in the page about the aquaducts. Just the ticket for a boring Friday afternoon in the office - thanks old chap!!
I Want Pie
[Btd] My first Thanksgiving two years ago when I met my now brother-in-law for the the first time was memorable mainly for his reaction to the news that I Had never had pumpkin pie, and yet it's barely known outside the US. Very strange.

Actually, I tell a lie - a Bulgarian colleague was telling me that there is a Bulgarian pumpkin pie, but it is more akin to baclava with pumpkin layered between the pastry.

Laid, Unsprayed and Made in England
Dunx] This is a UK pie to a US recipe. Best I've had.
Pie! Pie! Pie!
Bob the Dog] E-mail me some pie as an attachment. In addition to the pie, we have the wonderful mashed potatoes with lots of gravy, cole slaw with a hint of horseradish, sometimes sweetpotatoes, cranberry jelly on rolls with butter, and creamed onions (small white onions in a cream sauce with celery seed as the primary flavoring). And of course, there's the turkey. I like the crisp skin the best.
stop it!
You're making my mouth water - I'm having Tuna Steak tonight. And I want to have a bash at making a chowder. Has anyone got any recipes for chowders other than the clam variety because a) I don't like seafood and 2) Tesco's don't have clams.
Yummyons
Tina] Please send recipe for creamed onions - it is a dish we don't do here!
surreal spamming
My most recent wierd spam subject was Re:Handbags of antelopes. Whaaa?
Bob Yummyons
Will do, but it will take a couple of sessions. My family is very possessive of its recipes.
surreal spam
(snorgle) HANDBAAAGS? (© Dame Judy Dench). Did you read the spam?
spamspamspam
It was something about mortgages, apparently. Hotmail blocks linked images from appearing for privacy, so I missed out on some no doubt vital and personally useful information, but there you go. The ones I hate are the sneaky subjects like re:report, or I'm sorry I offended you. But surreal ones are at least vaguely amusing..
Creamed Onions for Bob the Dog
Just got this note from my sister in Albuquerque. "use small, not tiny, white onions. Boil them until tender. Drain and add a tiny bit of flour mixed in some milk, then some cream, salt, pepper and butter. I don't have any meaurements. I also add some parsley or finely sliced scallions. I often add a piece of garlic when boiling." As to the garlic and scallions, my mother never did that. For the salt, she used celery salt.
more drum roll
There has been a change at the top at Celebrity MC congratulations to Chalky in going to No1 just two weeks after being kneecapped.
Inkspot's previous
PANIC! Thanks for your report; However, unlike Chalky I'm panicking. Just changed horses for the bolt to the line; am I going to fall over into the 2-million (grab two green wads and convert them to a flashy car) or am I going to be robbed of my £950,000 and fall back into the arms of the following wolves? My heart is racing, my brow is perspiring and, frankly m'dear I couldn't give a damn. Err, well I do, really, after the extraordinary effort of the last week should I make the new podume I shall have a 'big think' about why I'm doing this. Stupid game... rigged... the ref's are biased... and so on - I WANT A FLASH CAR. ........ Sulks.
Tina
Thank you! I will try this - although being a bloke I tend to rely on measurements for my cooking. I probably start with a white sauce recipe - and I'll have to get some celery salt.
celebdaq
I'm just 200 000 short myself of the magic 2 million mark - pleasepleaseplease let there be a run on Paul and Heather McCartney! I won't get a flashy car (already got one!) but I hate just being short by such a small amount. If I can get 2 wads of cash, I only need 1 more for a flashy yacht! I can go sailing in the Mediterranean then.. :)
Idioms
Need everyone's help. My sister, in America, wants to know what it means to have to paint the "fourth bridge." Can someone help?
I think it refers to the Forth Bridge, which, it is said, takes so long to paint that, once the painters have done a complete coat, it's time to begin repainting it again, so the job never ends.
eep!
Indeed. Unfortunately, to save money, they stopped painting it regularly, and huge rusty chunks started falling off it, particularly onto North Queensferry. (My dad lives near there and I've seen it myself). I try not to think of the massive bolts on the ground when crossing on the train..
thanks
Thanks for the answers.
celebdaq
Curses! Only 1 wad of cash, I must have just missed it..
wads
snorgle]your not alone with your wad. Come on board my luxury yacht just off Crete, and I'll break out another Bolly:)
Handbags of antelopes
Could spam create another game? With game moves being titles of spam in your mailbox?
Measurements for Cooking
I like to know how much of everything as well - but I still throw things into the oven at whatever temperature I think is best and cook until not quite black.
3oz ketchup
Bool] I'm jealous! My other half has that talent - the Jackson Pollock school of cookery. She can throws it all in and it becomes a feast.
Sponge
[BtD] I remember her cake - very tasty.
Cooking temperatures
(Boolbar) So may I say "well done"? The term used in the chemical industry is "pyrolyse". :-)
it's too hot, baby
In creative cookery, and when taken to extremes, ain't that 'Cajun style'?
Bad luck, snorgle. You have my condolences - it happened to me once. I was lucky with my selection and managed the new car. Ah well, back to the grindstone - now I have to pay its running costs.
cross posting - terribly sorry
DearI’m Sorry I Haven’t A Clue listener, ThisThis is to bring you advance knowledge of a special Christmas show, entitled I’m Sorry I Haven’t A Christmas Carol, which will be recorded on Thursday 18th December at the Logan Hall, University of London, 20 Bedford Way, London WC1H 0AL.It is something of a change from the usual format, in that there will be no desks… Instead, the programme’s regulars will be telling the story of miserable Ebenezer Scrumph and his put-upon assistant Crotchet, with appearances from the ghosts of Christmases Future, Present and Pissed. No prizes for guessing who plays what here. They will be supported by a cast of regular guests of the programme, including Jeremy Hardy, Sandi Toksvig, Tony Hawks, Andy Hamilton and Linda Smith with Stephen Fry as the narrator. Tickets are £7.50 each, and will go on sale from 9a.m. tomorrow (Tuesday 4th November). They are being sold by a ticketing company called Warnes, and can be purchased over by phone with a credit card by calling 020 8545 2737 between 9a.m. – 5p.m. Monday to Friday. Please note that the sum debited will appear on your statement as Warnes Mail Marketing Ltd, and that they don’t take American Express. Alternatively you can apply for tickets by emailing LindaR@warnes.co.uk Reservations by e-mail should contain your name, your card details, your address, the quantity of tickets required and a telephone number in case of a problem with the card. If you prefer, you can send the first part of the credit card number in one e-mail, followed by the second part and expiry date in a second. N.B. When using a 'Switch' Card, you must quote the "Commencement Date, Expiry Date and Issue Number" if there is an issue number. That is all :o)
ISIHACC
Bugger - that's the works' Christmas Party night.
[Bigsmith] Work Schmirk!
[penelope] Party Hearty!!
Pen/Bigs] Babysitter Scmabyitter.
Foo!
[pen] Ocean schmocean. :(
New puppy scmuppy
[pen] Praise be to those who share news! Not that I can go.
Engaged Schmengaged
not me .... the telephone line
Babysitters mademebitter
Argh! *Sobs quietly*
wierd babysitters
I had a mad babysitter who made green popcorn and owned several hundred sets of salt&pepper shakers. She also kept every single newspaper (free or not) that she ever got. You could only go through her house via a single path through the vast piles of newspaper. She sent us her brother's autopsy report several years after we moved. I have NO IDEA why - but it had quite a vivid description of his lungs, as he died partly from pneumonia.
harmless nutters
[snorgle] Was that in Canada - or is she still at large in the UK?
harmless hillbillies
You are fortunate - she lived in Ottawa. She may be dead by now, too. She came from a line of Quebecois hillbillies and both her brother and sister who lived with her were... strange - they were mute, but made wierd noises which terrified us kids. Pity really, because they weren't mean, just trying to be friends..
crazy lady
the newspapers thing reminds me of a film i saw once - set in Finland or Norway or Canada or somewhere, with a lady who stacked newspapers all over her house just how you describe. There was a child involved I think who got taken away. A very nice film.
stacking
[snorgle] That morbid collecting of newspapers is a great deal more common than you might think... there was a series on a few years ago (before I left the UK, although I never watched it) called something like "Sanitation Inspectors" where their whole job was to go into the houses of people who had become obsessed with this kind of collecting and clear out the junk.

I have a colleague whose neighbours did this too. The developer who now owns their property has been trying to clear out the house for six months now. Quite sad, really.

Obsessive collecting
Yes - there was a case about 200 yards from where I live. The occupant (male I think) was found dead amongst his collections. There was a room in the house with only two feet of space left at the top.

My Dad is a little like this too - he can't bear to part with things, especially if he feels that there is a possibility it can be repaired or reused. I think he has three partially operative video recorders. Come to think of it, my Mum was a little like that too (never threw a jam-jam or biscuit-tin out) - mind you, she reused them all. I wonder if it comes from a wartime childhood?
Or an anti-consumption ethic - which for better or worse I share.
[Btd] What does tuberculosis have to do with it?

Still, as a member of a collecting family, I can hardly point the finger too aggressively. My wall of Trek tapes would only point back.

anti-discardation
I throw everything away, unless I remember what it is, it brings back a recollection of something, or I think I might use it someday in a book.
[Tina] Well, that last one has been my excuse to keep probably about half of my possessions. Fifteen years later, and I haven't written a blessed word about any of it.
writing
[dunx] But it's so nice to THINk about writing.
Junk
Given the response to clutter I am ever so glad that none of you have seen my workshop! As far as writing goes, I think that none of my 'stuff' would assist me in that venture - although I did think a few months ago that I might attempt some sort of novel. I did - it's still on page three! Perhaps some sort of regime may help (both subjects); maybe save one hour per day for each? This would mean the workshop should be cleared and tidied by 2020 and a manuscript organised by, say, 2005. Hmmm. ;-)
Chucking things out
I've just about cured myself of (a) keeping any bit of paper with spare space on it, and (b) thinking of butter as a luxury. Result of an immediate post-war childhood when these items were a bit short, to say the least.
Angus Prune
What ho! Just fancied sharing a thought that Haz got from an insightful friend:
How do "Keep Off The Grass" signs get there?

other pearls of wisdom included:

Why do they call it 'getting your dog fixed' if afterwards it doesn't work any more?

If WilE Coyote had enough money for all the Acme products, why didn't he just buy dinner?

Whose cruel idea was it for the word 'lisp' to have an 's' in it?

Do one-legged ducks swim in circles?

Why do Fat Chance and Slim Chance mean the same thing?

And who opened that first oyster and said "My, my, my. Now doesn't *this* look yummy!"

...of no particular consequence but you have to share the laughter...
Err
[ZK] Chuckles.

Why are not Bactrian camels more prolific than Dromedaries given that the former has more humps than the latter?

Grumpy wake-up Bird anti consumer
Oh bugg*r did I say anti-consumption? At some point I'll get enough sleep. ZK - :o)
Collecting
Ridiculous collecting of piles of junk is a common symptom of OCD. I have OCD and overpowering urges to do that kind of thing, but fortunately I have it more under control these days - although my collection of old Tube tickets amazes all who are fortunate enough to gaze upon it. I think the secret is a sort of displacement - if I focus on collecting a single kind of crap, I can throw away things like receipts or old cinema tickets with relative ease.
crap'n'junk
I've taught myself how to do it over the years - part of the solution is to recognise when you're in a mood to throw out emotional baggage, and the stored crap associated with it. Anything I haven't used in the past two years is unlikely to be used again, so it goes either for recycling or to charity. There are exceptions, of course - my reindeer skin, pocket TV, tennis shoes and velvet coat. I *hate* small bits of paper and get rid of them ASAP.
tibet
I was once sorely tempted to put everything I owned in a large pile and cover it in paraffin and set fire to it, and then sod off to Tibet and join a monastery. Still, in my more lucid moments, this strikes me as an eternally good idea.
Throw it away!
I've moved accomdation quite a few times in the past year this made me quickly realise that junk should be thrown away. I now can fit all my possessions in the back of my car. But as I'm looking into buying a house in the near future no doubt that my stuff will expand to fill as much space as I buy!
Junk
[Lib] You'd be amazed. I've owned a house for two years and have gone from being a man with a bed and a stereo to being a man with a bigger stereo, widescreen TV, surround sound, kitchen tables, bookcases, tools, and no less than 3 sofas. My stuff has expanded to fill my house and I could probably fill my neighbour's house with what's in the loft. How it happened I do not know. My advice to you is that, once you have a home of your own and space in which to store things, that things suddenly gravitate towards you. Learn to sidestep them....
Ikea is the root of all evil.
Avoid storage. If you buy things like cupboards, boxes, drawers, shelves to store all that junk then you just give yourself more space to fill with more junk which requires more storage and so on until you reach the point where to have more storage, you need a bigger house. You move to a bigger house which involves packing, so you throw away about 50% of your junk and end up in a house with loads of space. Ideal for filling with junk.
male junket
Virtually everything I own is 2nd hand and at the end of its usefulness just goes back to the charity shop. All, that is except my own compulsive obsessive collection of CDs. They stay.

I have heard that men suffer far more from OCD than women (examples include trainspotters, twichers and - ahem - sexual fanatics) and that this is linked to autism - thus linking maleness with communication problems. Anyone else heard of this?
OCD
[Bob] I think men do indeed suffer more from OCD then women, but I'm not necessarly sure that I'd call trainspotters obsessive. Like all things in life its not black and white. I think one of the main criteria for a diagnosis of OCD to be made is the fact that it inteferes with normal life and the intense feelings that come from not doing the compulsion. Linking maleness with communication problems is quite a vast step, can I turn the tables and suggest that women communicate too much?
second hand clucks
[Bob] I fear for your chickens when they reach the end of their egg productivity ;-).
OCD - I always thought it affected males and females equally and this might support that [unless they do things differently over there].
[Lib] Have just spotted your post as I was simul-ing - I agree - the link between the two is a HUGE step.
did u know ur a googlewhack? its penchant gazump
whacked
[paul] Who ... me? :-)
Men! Sweeping statement MkII
chalky] Nah - chickens are safe. Anyway, they are a variety that remain productive until they are 7 years old!
Lib] sorry - yes, trainspotting is not really OCD but I felt it may be linked to the kind of one-dimensional thought processes that males sometimes exhibit. I know loads of blokes who obsess about everything from computers to sport - girls seem to share this 'single mindedness' only when it concerns self preservation and children. Am I being extremely unfair to my own gender? Regarding communication - I find it incredibly difficult to talk to other men unless I share a passion with them, or are they are effeminate. In social situations, I enjoy hearing women and effeminate men talk because you are so much better at discussing emotional subjects.
OCD
I do actually suffer from an OCD which I now have more or less under some form of control, the details of which I will not go into, but I can say from very very painful experience that trainspotting has nothing in common, nothing whatsoever, not even close, not so much a different ballpark but a different sport played by the wrong rules by people trained in scuba diving wearing spacesuits. Believe me, a true OCD is life-destroying, it's all consuming to the point where you cannot function at all, you forget to eat, you forget to sleep, you care only about your OCD. Obsessive behaviour is very common in males, especially I think with the type of males who frequent this type of website (myself included), but it's not a disorder.
muscling in on Bob/Lib dialogue
It is interesting that the terms 'nerd' and 'geek' are usually applied to the male gender and that may be because - sweeping generalisation alert - they appear to be more pastime/hobby/enthusiast/fancier orientated. Perhaps they have more time on their hands?
BTW Bob - how would you define an 'effeminate' man? Are you referring to those of a homosexual persuasion or those who are in touch with their feminine side?
boys who like girls
Bob] Methinks that living in a house with three females doesn't help you in this. I must admit I like talking to girls as well ;o)
Girls v boys
On the subject of hobbies - I wonder if this is a cultural thing. It might be that young boys are more often encouraged to persue their hobbies and interests. I can's offer any observations about young girls cos neither I nor my brother was one. And I suspect that by the time we stopped being scared of them, and actually started liking them, this was unlikely to be the kind of question we were interested in. So what do parents get their daughters doing?
brothers & daughters
[rab] good question and one which I'm sort of qualified to put my two pennorth in, being the only girl with three brothers as well as mother of girls. Boys [in general] are happy to pursue a hobby on their own. Girls [in general] are more responsive to peer group pressure and prefer to do the hobby stuff with their friends. My 13-year old is far more enthusiastic about the drama club that all her cool friends attend, than the piano lessons where she has to go it alone, even though she is far more talented piano-wise than drama-wise.
playing
As a child I spent a lot of time playing with my brother. As he was older this generally consisted on him chasing me, him jumping on me, him spraying me with a hose then locking me out of the house. And other activities like rugby, scalelectrix, hockey and taunting. But I did possess dolls and played with them with my female friends when I wasn't being terrorised by my big bro! My mum was particularly keen for me to persue my hobbies chosen by her, eg piano and violin practice which went down about as well as the insults from my brother!
meant to say
[FG] Well done for getting it under control, and long may it continue. I've heard that its worse than a herion addiction, so it can't have been easy.
OCD and Friends
Re: throwing things away (or not, as the case may be) - I don't suffer from OCD, but I do exhibit a fair number of ADD behaviours1. ADD is apparently quite often misdiagnosed as OCD, depending on the particular collection of behaviours exhibited. The behaviour which leads to collecting massive amounts of stuff is a decision making shortfall.

[1] ADD (Attention Deficit Disorder) is a bad name, but it is also the name assigned to whatever ADD is. Personally, I don't think it's a disorder of the individual so much as a mismatch between how society trains people to behave and how some people's brains work, but there we are. The effect is much the same.

who like girls who like boys
Rab] I'm a dad with girls. I've not tried to push dresses or football on them, but they are naturally girly. Friends with boys agree, gender stereotypes are produced by the child choosing the behaviour patterns that they feel most comfortable with.
Chalky] (Beware - beware more sweeping generalisations) I mean those with the (generally) female characteristic of being able to communicate. This includes homosexual men. Some of the people I get on with best are gay because I like the way they can empathise. One of my best friends is only so because he made a pass at me. I, however, am hetero.
st d] Yeah - seven females vv me... sometimes I crave for a blokey night out at the local where we can eat raw (freshly hunted) buffalo steak and drink gallons of beer after a night wolf-whistling, playing rugby and mud wrestling.
mud wrestling ?!?
Well Mr Bob the Dog, I can help you out in the drinking beer stakes, but I think I will leave the mud-wrestling to the others.
Dogwrestling
Oh I wasn't clear - mud wrestling (with) girls :o)
Disorders and the single Qu+xum
OCD-no.
ADD-most likely; never been diagnosed as such but I suspect it's the case.
Me & women-I can talk to women on a strictly professional basis. However, if it gets even mildly personal (and I'm not sufficiently pissed), I basically turn into a paralyzed crab. Of course, talking Linux and cricket (sometimes simultaneously) doesn't draw the hotties here in Pittsburgh. :|
Diagnosis
[Dr Q] I was only diagnosed because the coping strategies I had developed made me depressed. I self-treated and resolved to stop using those coping strategies, but then I wasn't coping and I became depressed.
OCD&ADD
I wanted to write a little about how much I respected FG and Dunx for coping with OCD and ADD and having the courage to express it here. However, I'm a bloke, so I could never do a thing like that because it may reveal my blousey emotional side ;o)
seconding that emotion
[Bob] Hear hear. Also to Dr Q for disclosing paralysed crab tendencies when faced with laydeez who don't necessarily wish to talk business. Now that surprised me a little, although it shouldn't really - we often assume we 'know' someone based on our familiarity with their online persona.
It's a lot easier to sound sophisticated and erudite when you have the time to pick your words carefully. For example, if this were a face-to-face conversation, I probably wouldn't have said 'erudite' just now.
OCD?
Have ADD, only officially 'labelled' in 2000. However, like many 'sufferers', I have a high IQ, and had learnt to disguise it over the years, along with my lysdexia
lysdexia
deslyxia
axeldysi
dislexya
ah! Daily Sex! I think I'll keep that one...
Being honest
My proclivity for the amassment of huge piles of 'stuff' has absolutely nothing to do with ADD/OCD or any other disorder - apart from disorder itself; it is pure and unadulterated laziness. I do not collect objects in the sense of an aim in itself. I have, over many decades, learned to live with this affliction and simply accept it as 'me'. I do sympathise with those who have such leanings - that's the compulsive side of a personality - as I have had something similar for many, many years now but which is not at all related to the collection/arrangement side of things ... no, I'm not going into it here.

[Riff] You are correct, to a point, but is it just that you are afeared that the other parties to a conversation may be ignorant of the meaning of certain words and, therefore, you 'lower' your language to the level that you surmise is acceptable?

Psychological Disorders
I did a test online today for those. Luckily, I appeared to score low on pretty much every disorder, although I tested as "moderate" for Schizotypal, Obsessive-Compulsive, and Paranoid and "High" for Histrionic and Avoidant. Happily, I know what none of these things mean, with the exception of obsessive-compulsive disorder (ocd) which anyone who knows me knows is rubbish (coathangers, anyone?) I'll go with Dujon. I'm just lazy.
Trainspotting
Locospotting if you don't mind. As a 12-yr-old I was a locospotter, but it was all steam in those days, and also regarded as quite normal. We all indulged in serious trespass in pursuit of engine numbers. But these days if I see a 30-yr old in an anorak, yes!, at the end of a platform noting the numbers then there's something seriously wrong. It's not OCD; just sad. How can anyone be interested in a sodding diesel? No charisma. And they don't talk.
Can talk business (any time) or small-talk (after a pint) with anyone, male or female, though am often told my small-talking style is much more like a woman's than a man's (well I did learn it from my mother, pretty much a single divorced parent.) Can talk "football/rugby/insert sport of choice here" with anyone in the bar, drunk or sober, owing to fine memory for statistics. Can only talk "personal" with girls, never guys, and only on an abstract basis, otherwise go into paralyzed-crab mode. Actually prefer talking to women rather than men. Frequently have gay men making passes at me - never women (and have an equally annoying tendency to try to chat up women who then turn out to be lesbians. I didn't know there *was* such a thing as reverse gaydar...) Am totally straight and thus pissed off at the above situation.
Not sure about AD(H)D or OCD, but I suspect a reasonable case could be made, especially for the former. And in the latter case, I'm a minor obsessive who hates people that get more obsessive than me (about anything) but defends his right to be *this* obsessive ;-)
disclaimer
there is, of course, scientific proof for each, and severe cases can be quite crippling. On a lighter note, has anyone taken this test? http://www.penddraig.co.uk/pen/tests/sanity.htm
Oh laaaaaaaaaaaaaadeeeeeeeeeeee!
[Chalky] Pro'lly because we've never met in person. Of course, if it's a large enough crowd, I can just go about being the sarcastic, heavily vulgar, semi-humourous arsehole I usually am.
Then again, most members of the American female persuasion find me decidedly unattractive anyway, so I don't have to put up with it that often.

And as for rubbish...I'm a packrat. Nothing will be thrown out. EVER.

[ZK] 30.1%. Am I nuts?
Nost what?
Ah, Rosie, you tickled a few synapses there! Trespass indeed! True though; if you did it now, there'd be a couple of policemen crawling down an embankment to ask you funny questions. Even after I came to Australia I still kept an interest in steam engines (although my older brother was a real afficianado; he had records - that's 12" LPs - of various engines, trains, locations which were marvellous.) In those days (and we did) we used to travel on the local electric trains out to Penrith where some of the engines were turned around on a turntable to enable the return journey back through the mountains. Marvellous stuff. The 'lads' there even welcomed us and showed us around, let us watch the operations and explained any questions we may have had. To those of you younger than I, please accept my apologies for a bit of reminiscing.
Crazy
[ZK] Rubbish. According to that site I'm only 17.45454543% disadvantaged. That is demonstrably incorrect, otherwise I wouldn't be here and, certainly, would not take such a revealing quiz. Ptooe. ... ;-)
wibble
I am insaner than thou! ;)
Them engines
[Duj] I'm significantly younger than ye :), but I fully understand the fascination with the old engines. (Remind me to send you the pic of my great-grandfather and his engine.) You can often find videotapes and DVDs here of rail journeys. Next time I head up to Horseshoe Curve or other such rail history in Western PA I'll see if I can find any.
steam trains
has anyone been to sheringham? funky steam trains there, although a bit limited. was a big fan of Thomas the Tank Engine when younger but by the time I came along, they didn't make 'em like that any more! Nevertheless, I will always hold an affinity for Ringo Starr and his funnelled companions.
[Dujon] A good point, and that's probably at least a little of it (particularly if I have a low opinion of the intelligence of the person I'm talking to). But I tend to be shy around people I don't know, and the pressure to maintain a conversation in that situation makes me default to easier words simply because it's hard enough to string a sentence together as it is. In a more relaxed situation with friends, the more complicated words come more easily, and if someone doesn't know a word, I shrug and define it for them. Another aspect of it, probably, is that with people I don't know, the topic of conversation is rarely complicated enough to require any specialized vocabulary.

[re: junk] My excuse for accumulating huge piles of junk is that I might want to glue some of it together into sculpture. Of course, this rarely happens, but the fact that it does happen once in a while makes it that much harder to throw any of it away. From where I'm sitting, I can count nine empty cigarette boxes (one of them an interesting little slide-drawer thing), an attractive Harrods cookie tin, and a large lump of rusty metal that I haven't any idea what it is.

30.113636363636363%
Mwhahahahahahhaha!
sleep deprivation
Don'tcha just LOVE these cosy late night chats?
Or
Half pickled Thursday afternoons; don't you people understand that I'm supposed to be working/
Earlier
{Riff} Indeed. I remember with fondness the silly word games and references in which my family indulged over the evening meal. When I finally went to a job I found that all of my witty(?) remarks simply floated above. I was, to be honest, devastated. Nevertheless, I have finally found a 'home' in the various M.C. style web sites. Whilst my 'witty' remarks are not alway appreciated and, having met many who are far more clever than myself, I find that I rather like this community.

Sorry for the pathetic overtones, but it's true.

18.181818181% nuts. Mostly marshmallow, with an occasional choc-chip.
I'm not that good at small talk, I find it tiring and often don't know what to talk about, and so just lapse into silence, listen, watch, etc. If it's something I'm interested in, I can talk about/around it, or if I have nothing to say, can listen to someone burble on, and ask a question or two, or add something here or there (often surprising people, in the process, it seems). I'm learning to ask questions. I'm always much more comfortable with one or two other people, or in small groups rather than large ones, and definitely preferably people I know. I don't know about any men/women difference. But I am willing to let conversations pause.

Some people find this disconcerting, or think I'm boring, or (more likely) stupid. *shrugs*. It's lonely sometimes, but places like this are very good, and I think I've learned a great deal. Thanks.

[flerdle] I'm exactly the same, and I quite agree.
obsessive
The "other one" out of the disorders that manifest themselves in compulsive menky collecting types of behaviour is Asperger Syndrome, believed in recent years to be a sort of autism-lite. It basically is intended to be an umbrella label for those with somewhat impaired social skills, a preoccupation with abstract hobbies on which they "perseverate" (e.g. focus on to the exclusion of all else for long periods of time, including when talking to someone else) and who find it difficult to empathise or instinctively understand other people's motivations. For a time I believed I was aspergic until I actually went out and met some people who really were and had the chance to compare. This was a painful exercise which involved listening politely to the full details of the history of South West trains. After years of neglect it has become an extremely fashionable diagnosis recently for children, and, it seems to me, is overapplied.
Smallness
[Smalltalk] I'm exceptionally bad at smalltalk, and also don't respond well to it. I'm not one of these people who generally can talk to, say, a hairdresser, probably because I feel like I have no common reference points. That said, where I fall down is not being very good at the verbal parrying that establishes what the common reference points are. This is made worse by being a hopeless bloke, having no interested in cars, football and, to a certain extent, tits. So even the usual gambits just fail on me miserably. This probably marks me out as being 'boring', and would probably be confirmed if my interlocutors were to discover those subjects I do have an opinion about. New people can be problematic, too. I don't know if flerdle or penelope remember what I was like when I turned up at my first pilg...

[Aspergers] I have a friend who is like this, and his mum suggested he might have Aspergers. However a friendly medic who had met him immediately said "No, he's not got Aspergers"... I think there is a fashion to give everything a fancy label nowadays, and like Projoy, believe this is not a good thing. I would have thought it were obvious that different people approach things differently, and there's degrees of conformance to the "standard" way of doing things (known popularly as "normality").

In fact, drawing these two stands together, I find most "normal" people rather dull. Is this just me being an arrogant arse-wit?

Phantom
[Aside] Am currently "working" at home, and the phone rang whilst composing the above. The caller hung up immediately. I hate that - why can't they just admit to having dialled a wrong number? I don't think it was a potential burglar...
itsybitsy
[rab] I think you reminded me of me :-)
... and I was overcompensating out of sheer terror :-)
Oh...
[flerdle] I didn't mean to scare you! Luckily I think the beer and Tim-Tams sorted everything out.
eek! *hides behind the sofa*
[rab] My last posting was just to explain why (perhaps??) I seemed rather boisterous at times, (I wasn't saying that you were or weren't) which is another way of "coping", but not my usual one, I think because of the complete novelty of it all, especially the Tim-Tams. And I was stone cold sober, so that wasn't any excuse either. You certainly didn't scare me, and am looking forward to hopefully visiting again next summer.

Which, in a way, brings us back to collecting junk: I have a small amount of "stuff", but mostly I have books (I've been very restrained, honest!!). I used to have a tendency to collect empty or hardly-used notebooks (mmmm stationery), but recently disposed of almost all of them. A lot of things will be farmed out to friends/relatives, and some stored, but I'm quite looking forward to starting again in January with little more than a suitcaseful. Should be interesting.

A disordered mind
Wow, what a stream of revelations we have here. Bob is right to say that OCD is something quite different from "obsessiveness", and I get very angry when people talk about being "a bit obsessive-compulsive" and so on, when Goddammit! They haven't the faintest idea what it means. Sometimes I wish I could just turn my whole brain off and put it away in storage for a long, long, time. Someone asked earlier if OCD is related to autistic disorders, and there is evidence that it is. There is a greater overlap of occurrences of OCD and Asperger's than you would statistically expect, and indeed I have had my own brain photographed, rather excitingly, in an experiment to test this. Asperger's is the syndrome suffered by the narrator in The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time and one of the reasons I was so moved by that book was that, God help me, I identified with practically every aspect of him, except for being unable to read expressions, which is a defining characteristic of Aspergers. Many of the things that character does, such as counting, refusing to touch certain things, etc. are traits associated with OCD. Personally I think OCD, autism, and Asperger's are all somehow related, but people like me are very much on the "high-functioning" end of that spectrum, which means we can pass ourselves off as normal human beings. Well, most of the time.
By the way, it's true that some of these disorders are "over-diagnosed", but they are "under-diagnosed" as well. One in twenty adults in the UK has ADD, but the vast majority are never diagnosed.
PJ
rab] are you saying that you don't believe Projoy is a good thing ?
I can talk to anyone, but I hate listenintg. Ha ha.
Apologies, by the way, in case any of this is inappropriately confessional or too dull for anyone else! I've been thinking about it a lot recently (I do anyway, naturally) because someone at work actually guessed that I have OCD from watching my peculiar rituals, which rather shook me because, although I do peculiar rituals literally all the time, I normally hide them pretty well and people don't realise. Perhaps I'm getting worse.
Labelling
I'm not sure whether things are over or under diagnoised. Does having a label help matters? I know that I've got many traits which are typical of many diseases (my thinking pattern is very common in people with schizophreina, I have depressive phases, I'm mildly dyslexic) and I'm sure if I was analysed fully I'd have all sorts of nasty disorders. But thankfully they don't affect my life much, and I consider myself to be fairly sane. So does diagnosing mild ADD, mild OCD or mild Aspbergers help? There's no definate treatment (although congitive therapy can help, but cognitive therapy can help a lot of people) so why the need to label it?
OCD
What Dunx describes above is almost exactly what happened to me but in reverse I think. The OCD arose because I was depressed and would obsess on tiny things, believing absolutely that those things were the cause of my depression and if only I could sort them out I'd be happy. When, of course, I didn't sort them out I became more depressed, and so on and so on.
I can quite strongly reccomend hypnotherapy for the treatment of OCD. I wouldn't call it a cure but it sure helped me.
As far as diagnosis goes I don't think with these things that it's that clear cut. It's simply what you might call a personality trait, and we all exhibit different personality traits in differring amounts. Some people are talkative, some are fly-by-night, some are obsessive. I think we assign the term 'disorder' when one of these traits goes to an extreme such that it interferes with the normal day-to-day running of our lives. If we had a sound scientific way of actually measuring the extent to which each trait applied to us, the the term 'disorder' would be redundant.
Labelling
[Lib] I think the label does help. One of the things that helped me (and is still helping me) pull up out of the spiral of OCD was the fact that I could give it a name. I know now that I have an obsession, and that makes it less real so that I can actually control and sometimes ignore it. When you're in the depths of OCD you fully do not realise that you are obsessing, you just think that there is nothing else to life.
[st d] I can listen to anyone, but I hate talking.
[Lib] Naming a thing (and to some extent inventing the thing by the process of naming it) can cut both ways. The Asp/Aut/AD(H)D concept is now out there to a degree to which it wasn't, not many years ago. This lets people use it as a convenient club to beat people they can't deal with, but also lets others recognise themselves in it and make contact with each other. I've read alt.support.autism on and off, and there's a lot of very interesting, politically conscious stuff goes by. In fact, a lot of the politics is exactly the same as for being gay, black, deaf, or female. For pretty much any position that has ever been taken on any of these issues, change the specifics and it would be something that someone has said about any of the others.
[BM] Anyone who enjoyed "Curious Incident" might also be interested in Elizabeth Moon's Speed of Dark, an SF novel in which the central character is autistic. The characterisation is quite similar.
Labels
Having a label helped me a lot for similar reasons to FG - I could capture my demon. Looking back at my life and the way that things have gone, I can also recognise ADD behaviours there (indeed, recognising ADD behaviours in my school reports was a key element of the diagnosis). This gives me power to forgive myself: ADD is not an excuse for my poor performances in the past, but I've spent too much of my life thinking of myself as lazy and weak. I feel that I understand better why my education was so skewed towards things I liked, or why I flit from subject to subject, or why I will focus on interesting things to the exclusion of all else, or why I have such an appalling sense of the passage of time. Recognising these things (rather than blaming myself for them) has helped a lot.
Labels
they tried to label me as Bi-polar (it's all coming out isn't it ?) but I just smiled knowingly and carried on reading the numberplates.
'Best Before' labels
I'm normal on the surface. Whatever demons I carry with me are my business, but I'm approaching 40, single, childless and seem to be attracted by, and attractive to, men 15 years my junior. Make your own conclusions, then keep them to yourself! ;o)
.....
***quietly goes and hides behind a chair***
*whistles innocently*
Labels
[Lib] Ah, but they're not just labels. They're objective realities. Saying that someone has ADD, for example, isn't just saying that they have a bunch of particular personality traits - it means that they have a particular genetically transmitted condition which causes those traits. As Fat German says, if you don't have the traits very badly, you probably don't have the condition with which those traits are sometimes associated. But if you know that someone does have that condition then you can treat it, if treatment is appropriate. Describing this kind of diagnosis as "applying labels" is as silly as talking of disgnosing a broken leg or lung cancer or any other illness or condition as "applying labels". Certainly I have found it enormously helpful to be properly diagnosed because it means I can recognise OCD things for what they are and deal with them accordingly. And this is true of many other people I have spoken to, with OCD and with ADD as well.
Labels
[BM] There is a crucial difference, though, between a broken leg and these mental conditions or constitutions. In the case of a broken leg, you can demonstrate the objective existence of a physical pathology, and there are treatments known to be effective in pretty much every individual case. For ADD and the like, no-one has demonstrated either an objective pathology, or an objectively effective treatment based on an understanding of the pathology. All we have is descriptions of symptoms that cluster together (although no individual need show all of them), vague genetic correlations, and supposed treatments of very variable effect. There may indeed be a definite thing wrong with the brains of OCD sufferers, and there may be possible treatments as effective as setting a broken bone and applying a cast, but currently, very little is actually known.
(simulposted by a much more succinct post from Raak, but...)
[BM] Well... yes and no. I'll take ADD as my example, since that is obviously what I know best.

It is clear that ADD behaviours can be severe enough to cause problems, and that there are a lot of people who carry these behaviours around with them, but it is not certain that ADD is an objectively definable disease. For instance, ADD has been described and recognised by the US psychiatric establishment for more than 30 years (although its name has been changed a few even times over that time), but the UK establishment only officially recognised ADD in the 1990s - this despite the first published work on ADD being in the UK a hundred years before. Even in the US, ADD has only recently (ie in the last ten years or so) been widely recognised as occurring in adults - it was considered a childhood affliction which was obliterated by adolescence.

Part of the problem is that labelled conditions such as ADD, OCD, etc are note discrete: a bone is broken or it is not broken, but ADD has more degrees than there are labels, and even then it is not clear that even someone whose collection of symptoms is technically pathological enough to be so labelled is actually displaying anything more than just a strong personality trait. There has been work to scan brains under ADD-expressing conditions, and there are apparently common factors to those scans, but ADD is at best a collection of possibly related symptoms. But then is personality just an expression of brain chemistry?

As I say, my belief is that those who are actually disadvantaged by their ADD behaviours are those who have been trying to use their brains in ways which don't mesh with their brain chemistry or personality, where "one size fits all" education systems teach the same learning mechanisms to everyone regardless of how they really learn best. This is one of the reasons that I talk about my having ADD behaviours; Idon't consider myself to be diseased1.

[1] this is going in a footnote because it's not part of the core point, but one of the things which concerns me about statements that ADD is underdiagnosed is that it is then treated as a disease. At this point the children (and this is where I become most concerned - it is almost always children) are dosed up with psychostimulants in order to make them fit in rather than training them to use their brains to their best advantage: the problem is not solved, it is avoided.

Dunx's last paragraph and footnote
Absol-bloodly-lutely. Extremely well put. It extends beyond education and learning mechanisms too, in my view.
clusters
[Dunx and Raak] Hear hear. Nicely expressed.
iz it becos I iz...?
As Raak says, a leg is generally broken or not broken, and the difference is pretty clear and agreed upon, but you get members of any minority group into a room (ADD sufferers, autists, gays, black people) into a room and ask them to define "ADD", "autism" or, heaven help you, "gayness" or "blackness" and you will soon have a heated debate on your hands.
...just witness the endless controversies in the last few decades over the definition and meaning of "disabled".
I like meds
I agree with Dunx that the problem is really one of society not being able to handle people who are different. It's terrible that children, in particular, who have a different way of learning, get straitjacketed into the traditional methods and classed as having a problem if they don't fit in. It's especially ridiculous given how much society actually prizes ADD traits in many ways - such as creativity and spontaneity - which is how people like Billy Connolly, Robin Williams, and Ozzy Osbourne got to where they are today. Bill Clinton, of course, is the classic ADD kid made good. But at the same time, I do think that there is good evidence that ADD, in particular, is a discrete and specific disorder, with specific physiological causes, rather than a handy name for a bunch of sometimes associated phenomena. Raak is wrong to say that the genetic correlations of ADD are vague: they are not vague at all, and there is very good evidence for a strictly physiological basis, although of course how that basis manifests itself will vary according to conditions. Certainly ADD behaviours do vary from person to person in type and degree, which is one of the things that make it hard to diagnose, but it doesn't follow that the underlying cause varies - at least where ADD is the correct diagnosis. We have a rather skewed view of it in the UK because, as he says, it hasn't been officially recognised here for very long, compared to the US; in fact, some of the newer treatments for it, such as Concerta (essentially slow-release Ritalin) are unheard of to many supposed experts in this country. Plus, of course, the media like to fixate on issues of medication and horror stories about it. By the same token, it would be better if society could change to accommodate those of us who are different, but given that it can't, medication is a whole lot better than nothing. I have known people whose lives have been utterly ruined by ADD as well as by OCD. If they had been diagnosed earlier and given the help they needed - medication as well as proper counselling and behavioural therapy - who knows how things might have been different.
Whoops
Something happened to my paragraph marks. I do apologise - as if my tedious exhalations aren't bad enough as it is...
physiology
[BM] So what are the discrete physiological causes of ADD popularly supposed to be, then?
Re: physiology
[Projoy] Primarily temporal lobe dysfunction, at least according to Dr Daniel Amens who was one of the first to use brain scans to try and figure out what is different in an ADD brain. I've read his book Amens' "Healing ADD" where he describes the different areas of brain activation in the six varieties of ADD which he identifies. All of them share some degree of temporal lobe dysfunction.

The temporal lobe controls your ability to concentrate, and is more active when a brain is concentrating on something. A typical pattern in an ADD brain is that when it is used to concentrate deliberately on something then the temporal lobe is actually deactivated (ie there is less neural activity). I say "deliberately" because a common ADD behaviour is 'hyperfocus' where the brain will concentrate on something novel1 to the exclusion of all else, but this is rarely deliberate.

Note that there is another book called "Healing ADD" by Thom Hartmann, that I would also recommend, but which is entirely different. In particular, Mr Hartmann specifically attacks Amens' work in scanning brains. But there we are.

[1] another very annoying aspect of this is that I cannot go to sleep if there is speech in earshot. I'll be drifting off quite satisfactorily when my brain will latch on to the interesting noises and amplify them in my perception. Similarly, I need silence or at least white noise if I need to think about a task which I am not entirely involved in, because otherwise my mind will concentrate on the novel rather than what I'm supposed to be doing.

Right, but that still leaves Raak's point unchallenged, doesn't it? There's nothing to suggest that there's a single cause for that particular pattern of brain activity.
Quite right.

For instance, even the mechanisms by which ADD brain patterns arise in the individual are not certain. There is a high correlation between ADD in parents and in their offspring (a figure of 70% is often quoted) which might suggest a genetic link, but it could equally be due to upbringing: the brain is plastic enough that learning will change its structure (no specific references, I'm afraid - I read this recently but can't remember where), and if much of a child's early development is achieved through mimicry then it's quite possible to imagine that parental ADD behaviours might imprint on the child.

It may well be that the role of genetics in mental development is overstated. There is some work (this book, for instance) which puts forward the argument that:

  1. there is a common perception that genetic factors are the largest causative agent in mental illness
  2. there is almost no evidence of a correlation between mental illness in children and in their parents (the book linked to states that the strongest correlation is in schizophrenia where there is a 50% correlation; nothing about ADD though)
  3. if hypothesis (1) is wrong, then it must be environmental
  4. the most pervasive environmental influence on children is their parenting
  5. therefore the way you are raised is why your head works the way it does.
So, ADD may be at least as much a social phenomenon as a genetic one, although I also think that any learning which has this effect would have been at such a young age that there is no element of choice to it .
something else
I wonder if I could change the subject. Feel free to ignore me. A co-worker is driving me crazy. Her husband hit her and one of the kids and she got a court order that he stay away. Since then, she is trying to find ways to meet him or to justify meeting him. He is possibly suicidal and she thinks this means she should help him. I point out how these suicidal guys sometimes take the family with them (to death), but she still vacillates. She is obsessed and talks about it constantly: outside on breaks, at my workstation, on the phone, in e-mail. She also obsesses about how she wants sex with him and graphically tells me stuff. Oddly, she listens to my advice, which is quite blunt and includes telling her she is not rational now, but I have a law background, not a psychological one. What do I do to get her to get the help she needs? How do I keep her from putting herself in harm's way? How do I (a gazillion other things)?
Dorothy Dix.
Personally, apart from - as you mention - trying to convince her to get some professional assistance I'd stay well out, Tina. If she truly is irrational, heaven knows what affect any well meant advice may have on her. If you do attempt to convince her to get some help I think I'd leave the broken relationship out of any coaxing and simply concentrate on the fact that she is under stress at this time ... Then again, I'm no psychologist!
not ignoring Tina
[cross-posted with Duj] How very difficult for you. Are you in the UK? Can you point her towards the Samaritans or even Relate? In my experience [I've been a voluntary counsellor for some years] you are doing the right thing, in that you are listening. If you are happy to be just a sounding-board, for that is all you are, try not be too disappointed if she fails to heed your warnings. By confiding in you, I'm afraid it looks as though she is seeking justification and perhaps your approval for her future actions, ie. she is likely to meet up with him. I would say, your main problem is that her irrationality appears to have transmuted into outrageously selfish and controlling behaviour [towards you] and you have to guage how much more you can cope with. When she's next in 'listening' mode, you might gently point out that you have a life aswell. But unless she admits she needs professional help, there is little you can do, short of frog-marching her into a doctor's surgery. [Blimey! Do I sound like an agony aunt or what?]
Dujon and Chalky
Yes, this is what my sister says as well. I'm in the US and our employer has a counseling plan. My sister says, make excues when she comes to my cubicle. Yes, she is always seeking my approval. She will announce some awful plan, come to my desk, and ask what I think. I say I disapprove, and so far that works. But it's not right really. I'm not the professional. And she is selfish now. There is nothing in her life except her crisis. She lost maybe 20 pounds. She writes me at 3 a.m. and is not sleeping. Thanks for all your help. I just don't want to open the paper and find her dead.
Warts 'n All
I cannot put myself in your position and therefore cannot really understand, but it sounds like you are in a most awkward position - particularly if you feel obligated to your co-worker. Chalky is undoubtedly correct when she mentions listening but this, long term, could interfere with your own work. In view of the fact that your employer has a counseling service, why don't you have a talk with their staff? Depending on legal contingencies you may have to keep the name of your fellow worker out of any discussion, but at least you may receive 'proper' advice (and by that please do not think that I am denigrating Chalky's input.)
Dr dog
Tina] If you are concerned for her life then she definitely needs professional help. I think you have demonstrated the characteristics of a good listener - but you are not responsible for her situation. She has to be, so it may help to explain this to her in a kindly and assertive way. She may thank you for it.
advice
Thanks to you all for the good advice.
Echoes
I would echo what Dujon said in his last post - counsellors can be extremely useful even if you aren't the one who is in direct need of their services. It allows one to perspectivise the situation. Obviously the best case scenario is if somehow your colleague manages to sort her situation out; the worst case scenario is if this doesn't happen and you get dragged down with it. I found a counsellor was enormously helpful in staving off the latter when I was in a tricky situation.
Trying to attract INKSPOT's attention
To keep the competitive daughter away from MY Daq account - I suggested she sign up herself. She thinks she can knock spots of the rest of us. What a challenge. Any chance of slipping her into our mini-league? [x_sugarbabe_x - 3509835]
Only me...
Some people have to work you know, others sit around waiting for the server to get back up ... so in between this and that, I've added x_sugarbabe_x.
thanking Inkspot :-)
Celebuggered
Well, I'm going to have to waste about £600,000 in my NI-capping. Feh!
OCD
Coincedentally, the R4 programme "All In The Mind" had a segment on OCD on the 28th October edition.
... or rather, I should say, about hoarding. Slight misadvertising there. It's the first segment after the intro.
I've nothing much to add to the above (having just caught up with the foregoing) except to wish Tina luck with her situation and to thank those who've talked about such personal issues so openly in the ADD/OCD debate.
My own feelings are that I feel myself to be somewhat... eccentric, particularly socially. Some days I seem to fire on all cylinders and participate on all levels with "the group" (meaning colleagues & students) - cracking jokes and fitting into the ongoing banter as we work, but other days it's like I'm out of sync or speaking a different language.
I don't feel this or any other of my eccentricities are anything like extreme enough to warrant labelling as a disorder - and my feeling has been reinforced by some of the above - it's seldom if ever a real interference in my life. As Projoy suggested, when you hear stories from people who have suffered it humbles your own pretentions to such things!
I've often remarked flippantly that no-one worth knowing is "normal" or 100% sane - and I do believe it's the oddnesses about people that make them interesting day-to-day. Not so much that these traits are odd perhaps as that they're different, new and interesting. They characterise people, and make them unique.

I was also struck by Dunx's comments about difficulty falling asleep if there's audible conversation going on - I find falling asleep very difficult generally, and any sort of distraction is a killer: conversation (especially other people in the house talking, but also just tv) light - especially ambient light through the window, strong wind & rain (although they're kind of nice to listen to...) I've found music helps, although it needs to be the right sort of music - usually but not always without lyrics, often ambient. Dead Can Dance, Brian Eno's ambient classic Music For Airports and William Orbit's Strange Cargo III are all favourites to drop off to. They help shut out the rest.
Hmmm - this has turned into an insomnia post really...
[Celebdaq] I'm flabbergasted that Keanu Reeves is still dropping despite the last Matrix films opening... I was doing so well with Arnie before that too... ho hum.
[bl] "The only normal people are the ones you don't know very well."
Celebdaq - Keanu Reeves dropping
Could it be because the last Matrix film is getting bad reviews, rather than good?
Sleepless in... well, everywhere
[blamelewis] I sympathise greatly. I have always suffered terribly from this. I have been known, on more than one occasion, to be kept awake by my own heartbeat. This is an example of how diagnosis helps, however: now that I know I have OCD, I recognise much of this as silly obsessiveness within my own head. I don't really need conditions to be perfect before I fall asleep, I just think I do, and it's the obsessing about it that actually keeps me awake. And that alone makes things much easier. However, I still cannot sleep through any kind of human-made noise. Those damn humans!
Scilence
Dunx/Blame/Bread] Sleep is something I adore. I could easily (and and often have) fallen asleep within earshot of conversation - que joke about boring conversations. But to try and fall asleep to music, even Brian Eno, would be impossible for me. I'd be far too wrapped up in thinking about the music to let it lull me. I prefer natural darkness and scilence - as experienced on Shetland - where there is vitually no man-made background light or sound.
zzzzzzzz
[Bob] I've noticed a big difference since moving out of Glasgow - there's no longer a streetlight glaring in my window, and only very occasionally do the sounds of drunken revelry intrude. {Bread] i feel sometimes it's the whirl of thoughts in my head keeping me awake - that and being insufficiently tired - I know part of the problem is my lack of regular exercise also. [JLE - Matrix] Bad press should count as much as good - look at Prince Charles this week!
Radio 40 winks
I fall asleep listening to Radio 4 - I like the noise of voices as I doze off. If there are too many of my thoughts whirling around in my head, (and this is where I start to think I'm odd, after reading everyone else's confessions) I kind of 'take dictation' from the shipping forecast or the news or whatever is broadcast. I hear the words, then see them in my mind's eye on the page, the shape of the letters and the shape and length of the word. It leaves no room for other thoughts and I'm asleep within minutes. I can't listen to music to fall asleep - it has a stuimulant effect, no matter what kind of music it is.
Sleeping to the radio
Adult to small child who has just answered the door: "Is your Mummy in?"
Small child: "She's asleep listening to Woman's Hour."
Bed, where is thy spring?
I don't seem to have this trouble. Diet and preoccupation seem to be pretty much the only factors that affects whether I sleep. Thus I must not eat after 7 if I want to fall asleep by 11. And almost nothing wakes me. Someone was stabbed to death on my street once and I slept through the whole incident. Provided I have followed the eating rule, I can fall asleep to any music or stimulus, even violent atonal C20th music. I fully expect to die in a fire someday.
To sleep, perchance to dream
I am fortunate. I fall asleep when I want to, which means when I am tired. I sleep lightly but it never really bothers me if I wake in the night [or if I am woken] because a cup of tea usually sorts me out. I wake when I need to. How dull.
I'm dreaming of a ... daq
Not really - BUT - come on, Dr.Q+ - you are within sight of the line (or at least in line of site.) You can make it ... deep breath ... push ... push ... only a bit to go ...

I'm afraid that Doris_Newbold and ffiish are about to lose a bit of well earned dosh, Doris though having just made the finishing post.

site ... s/b ... sight ... sheesh!
dream
[Chalky] not at all, sounds blissful! [celebdaq] That's it, I've sold Keanu, his usefulness offscreen clearly not in proportion to his arboresence on screen... it Prince Charles for me! (As the Butler said) (allegedly)
nodding off
I like sleep but sleep doesn't like me. I can't do it properly at all. And following on another comment, I fully expect to die by being stabbed to death as I set fire to Projoy's house.
zzzzzzz
At the beginning of the week, when I have classes, I get about 3-5 hours of sleep a night. At the end of the week, I get 10-12. Plus, any night of the week, I might decide not to sleep at all. In this fashion, I am training my body not to expect any particular amount of sleep at any particular time. I'll never be jet-lagged again!
[noise] I can't handle TV or conversation when trying to sleep at all, but I can handle music if it doesn't have lyrics, and is very repetative. For instance, I've fallen asleep underneath tables in the middle of raves a couple of times. Of course, driving all day to get there and then having to unload all the speakers undoubtedly helped.
Sleep
I used to have terrible trouble sleeping through other people's noise. My lodger used to have music on at night fairly quietly and it used to drive me mad, especially the fact that the bassline was audible more than the rest, to the point where we had a screaming row about it. She couldn't see my point of view and I was incensed that she couldn't see mine. Now that I know I'm obsessive about it I can sleep through it just fine. If it's me making the noise (my music, my radio, etc) I can sleep through practically anything.
Bass disturbance
FG] I couldn't stand any music at night either. I once shared a room in an International hostel with a guy who had an immense collection of pop music from Ghana. I had to move rooms to stay sane. The ex-roommate then started to make claims that I was racist (notes on the message board - complaints to the hostel management) because I didn't like being kept up till 4.00am every night. In an international setting, this was extremely hurtful.

This may seem funny, but it is really very sad. I someone who suffered from Tourette's syndrome recently. For some bizarre reason, he'd chosen to become a street performer - specialising in children’s entertainment. There must be a reason why he chose such an inappropriate career path.
I met someone
[Bob] Sounds interesting. Tell us more!
Lib] Not much more to tell. I was with my (at that time) 6 year old daughter. This chap was dressed in colourful street hippy type clothes and was earnestly and unsuccessfully trying to attract the attention of people with children outside Shakespeare’s Birthplace (I live in Stratford). I'm not usually keen on this kind of thing, but he seemed so honestly appealing so we stood and watched him juggle. He came over to us and talked to my Daughter. He was very sweet and friendly but when he spoke to me it was obvious he has Tourette's because he would twitch (as if sneezing) and shout a swearword. My partner and I are not uptight about letting my daughter hear swearwords, if she asks, we just tell her what they mean and that they are words it is wrong to use in public because they could cause offence. Same with this guy. It gave me an opportunity to talk to my daughter about the syndrome and how awful it must be to be a sufferer. The juggler, however, was not at all popular - especially with other parents - which was a shame because he really was good with my daughter.
Knee-capped
Not too gutted though - made well over 200,000 since dividend payout having not quite reached the 2,000,000 mark and was never going to make it up to the 3,000,000 mark before today. This week will be the real test.
Tourette's
[Bob and anyone else who's interested] There is a form of Tourette's, just as well documented, which manifests it self in strange twitches and 'noises' but NOT swearing. [I suppose it's not surprising that the uncontrolled blaspheming is the symptom that attracts all the attention - and sniggers] I know this because my brother's son had it. He and his wife noticed when my nephew was about 8 years old and within months he was diagnosed by the top specialists in the country. They have spent years keeping abreast of the constantly updated research on the syndrome as well as communicating via support groups, etc with other families who suffer. They were told quite early on that he would 'grow out' of it during puberty. He did. He's now 16 and is a superb county rugby player and is in the England R U Development Squad.
Had a conversation with a friend last night, she mentioned someone she knew who had Tourette's -- his specific symptom was that he'd 'baa' like a sheep all the time...
tourettes
Bob] You are right of course to say it is very sad and an awful syndrome etc etc. BUT, I am sorry, a juggling kid's entertainer with tourettes. That is comedy genius. Or would be if it were a sketch on Trigger Happy TV and not real life. Are you telling me that you haven't since laughed at the thought of the guy handing a balloon shaped like a donkey to some 6 year old and then saying "BOLLOCKS" really loudly? Tragic syndrome. Hysterically funny image.
Mental rental
Tee-hee - a self-drive rental truck has just driven into our office balcony, gashing a huuuuge hole in its roof!!
5 tonne monsters
I drove one of them last time we shifted. Why me and not the man of the house I can't remember. I was completely paranoid, because of the huge excess to pay if there'd been an accident, and because it was huge compared with our little car. But the bouncy driver's seat was fun.
van woman
[flerdle] It'll be because you're sensible and give off an air of confidence and capable-ness. And of course, you could blame Mr flerdle for making you drive if there'd been an accident... ;o)
little do they know...
[penelope] I love how your mind works :-D
He said WHAT?
St d] In fact that is what happened - except there was no balloon and he said "W@NKER" :o)
mini-swears
If walking past my old primary school is representive, kids know words like bol****s and w**ker anyway. In my day 'bum' was rather naughty.
A missing "ta"
They taught me to spell in those days as well.
w@nker
Bob] And you have laughed since in teling this story ? I am tempted to turn into a street clown and fake the tourettes.
googlewhack
not that i am particularly bored today or anything, but I just found a googlewhack, and they wont let me post it - I assume because it is deemed rude. Anyway I willshare it here as it is a genuine whack! FELLATED MOHICANS.
St d] Come to think of it - he said that too...
Whacked Off
[st d] Are you sure that's a googlewhack? If so I'm really rather surprised.
googlewhack
Oooh! It is, I just checked..
moving
[flerdle] You have a longer drive this time. And remember to deflate the tires when you reach the desert.
Losing hair
I was going to compose an extraordinarily witty comment to post somewhere on the site. However, I thought that this was even more funny (courtesy of my I.S.P.):

Service Disruption Start: Wednesday, 12 November 2003 at 5:53AM EDST
Last Updated: Wednesday, 12 November 2003 at 12:04PM EDST
Scheduled Service Disruption: No
Who is affected: Some customers
Impact: We are currently having problems with ADSL. This is affecting customers in New South Wales. Some customers will experience no dataflow. Technicians are treating this issue as a priority and are working on the problem.

Right, I'm off to find a pub or a bottle or something - it beats crying. Any takers?

Looking at that
Not clear? Probably not.

I have just spent considerable amounts of time attempting to post/read/hack a number of sites. I'm giving up and, hopefully, will see you all tomorrow.

Credit where it's due department
Last night, bored as hell with the quality of discussion in a chatroom, I began posting "Fascinating Facts", all culled from the lies game on this very server. After I posted Ibid's "Hammerhead sharks have to clean their teeth regularly, due to the large quantities of salted peanuts they eat." one of my duller interlocutors asked "where do they get the peanuts", allowing me to take great pleasure in replying "Do I look like a marine biologist?"

Totally irrelevant I know, but just a small example of how the MC community brings happiness into the world in small unexpected ways. :)

Projoy
I remember meeting you once in the Head of Steam many moons ago, on a Tuesday if I recall correctly. From that dim recollection, and also from my having met more than a couple of Marine Biologists in my time, I can only conclude that from a certain angle, and in the right light, you actually DO look like a Marine Biologist. But that is by the by - where DO the sharks get the peanuts from ?
You know, sometimes I wish I actually were a marine biologist. Particularly today, with the office feeling especially horrible.
marine biology
Indeed. How nice to be sitting on a beach somewhere far flung with a torch and a clipboard and a ruler, waiting for a load of turtles to turn up.
[Projoy] Why are people in chatrooms so stupid? The number of times I've tried to talk about something interesting or intelligent, only to get in reply "wot". I appreciate that my kind of interesting conversation may not be everyone's, or indeed anyone's, but what kind of idiot just types "wot"? The same kind that spells "great" with an 8, I suppose. [Shuffles off in carpet slippers muttering about the war.]
chatroom schmatroom
[Bready] Where do you chat? I'll gladly gatecrash and help you to liven things up a bit. Likewise [Projoy] there's some interesting Duologues to be made there, I'm sure. I was a frequenter of MSN chatrooms, where I would resort to lobbing virtual cushions about the room to initiate some reaction. And if nobody responded to a cushion, I'd try throwing virtual knives.
chattin
I have to confess - when I first became internetted a few years ago, my first port of call was an MSN chatroom. I plunged myself nervously into the mêlée, learned all the patter, sussed out the dynamics, etc. Anyway, after a couple of unsatisfactory weeks I decided it wasn't for me and became far more attracted to the community message board attached to the room, where I encountered some like-minded souls. Anyway, to cut a long [but rather interesting] story short, I now have two very close friends whom I see on a regular basis as a result of that experience. So, although I wouldn't be seen dead in a chatroom now [they terrify me], I can't exactly decry those who get something out of the experience.
Besides, if I manage to get any time to myself late evening, I would rather bimble around the Crescent sites. Talking of which, does anyone frequent the MCiOS chat server? If I knew that some friendly faces were in there, I might make an exception.
As far as I can see we never get around to creating enough activity in our own chatroom at MCiOS. We should maybe have a particular time in the week (like Sunday night at 8 or whatever) for VirtualPilgs, then the place would really buzz.
Grasshopper mind
Oh, and to leap back to the neurology discussions, is it meaningful for a person to maintain "I'm pretty ADD today" (as I have just done to a colleague. I certainly am finding it hard to focus on anything for longer than 20 seconds today, which is not always a problem.
And another thing
Why do I invariably leave off the closing parenthesis or comma from a subclause, and why do I often forget to put a question mark at the end of a question? Somebody must know. I can't be the only one.
crescent chat
[Projoy] Damn fine idea, although I'm part of a pub quiz team and we compete on Sunday nights, so I can't make it until about 11pm. Also I'm likely to be a bit squiffy.

Noting your simulpost PJ - it's because you're having an BAD ADD day

ADD
I had the answer to your questions, then I am afraid I got distracted by a tiny jam tart.
Mmm. Jam tart.
The MCiOS Chat Room
[Chalky] I'm usually in there while I'm at work (usually 12:30-21:30 GMT), but often not at my desk when anyone happens to show up. :(
trying to work at home
Distractions? DISTRACTIONS?? You should worry - a mere glimpse at the words jam tart sent me into the kitchen to throw together a chocolate sponge. Smells lovely, mind.
tarts
I just had another one. Terribly nice. Tiny little ones as well. From Safeways I believe. Mmmmm.
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh! You know I can actually FEEL myself stagnating today. This is not good.
chat
The thing is, strange people live in the MCiOS chatroom.. scary people..

Yay! I just won a prize!

winning ways
Well done, snorgle. Your statement begs the questions - what and what for?
stagnation
[st d] Glad I'm not the only one. Know what I did (nobody tell my boss, please). I stood up, announced I was going for a late lunch, then walked out of the building took a tube to Covent Garden and marched into the Back Rub Centre for 20 minutes of massage by a very attractive man. I came back and slipped into my desk with a cat and cream sort of expression. It may not have helped my productivity, but it sure as hell made me feel better.
chat denied
I can't MCiOSchat at work :o( but I can eat jam tarts, although right now we don't have any. We had mince pies in the office yesterday though :o). A weekly cyberpilg would be good - I sometimes see DrQ in there, and occasionally flerdle, usually 9pm-ish GMT. How about a Monday night?
And simulposted by Projoy - why can't I work closer to Covent Garden and the attractive backrub man? Tesco's mince pies down't sound a patch on a cat-and-cream expression after a session like that. (Mind you, there are runours of a company with its own rowing eight moving into the office suite next door to us):oD
Monday nights are probably quite sensible, since one's least likely to have a social engagement/evening class/rehearsal/major shopping expedition/press conference to launch Conservative leadership bid that night.
thumbs up for Monday
Bugger - that's the evening I usually have sex. Ah well, I suppose abstaining one day a week won't do any harm. :-)
curious companies
[pen] a Company with its own rowing eight?? I wonder if the contentious eightsome have to work in a separate soundproofed room so their 'loggerheading' doesn't disturb the placid ones?
smashing!
[Chalky] The new company has 'Porcelain' in its title (I've seen some early post in the lobby) so perhaps they're made to keep their oars elsewhere for fear of smashing the samples. I wonder where they keep their rowlocks?
Night-time
Monday nights sound good to me.
Cyber pilg
Do Monday nights suit non-UK MCers? It'd be particularly good if Dunx, Dr Q, Flerdle and Dujon et al can join in as they can't get to UK pilgs.

This Monday is out for me - I'm doin' my thing at a conference in Edinburgh. Three days of torment made good because of the location.

But I'll join in a week on Monday. I'll merrily settle down in front of the PC with a big drink and a cuddly toy (I've never been on a pilg but I believe this is the done thing).
llareggub
I'm looking forward to the new Under Milk Wood on R4 this Sat - thank God they've kept Burton.
Le Pilg à Cyber
I haven't tried the chat room recently from work; should be OK, since our firewall is reasonably permissive. And Monday night is probably a better bet in any case - the last time any kind of regular online MCing was attempted was with an IRC channel many moons ago, and I don't think there were ever more than about four people.
chat?
[snorgle] I didn't think I was that scary...

I have had several attempts at seeing if people could coordinate to turn up in the chatroom at some particular time, but it's never worked. However, pilgs have been great, and things seem to really take off when there's more than three people there (or more than one, which is more often the case). Now that there seems to be some sort of interest, of *course* I'll be around. When people are at wirk it just doesn't work, I think, so UK evenings are fine for me, especially now that the sun comes up earlier. Day of the week doesn't matter too much, although if I work that day I may have to leave by 11pm UK time (Sundays and Tuesdays, probably). Some days I can be around longer because I'll be working from home, so there may be a possibility of more US-Aus meeting more towards the US evening time, (even west coast). My possible times, of course, are only for the next two months, then I'll have to see how the net connection and a new time zone work. Monday night is fine. What other possibilities are there? Maybe broadcast the idea to the other two sites.

*lights candle, sings softly to self*

pilgs win prizes
[flerdle]I might manage a Monday, but can't guarantee I'd be there long..(it was JLE who was scary..:) I can't get into that chatroom at work, but home is fine. I think my computer is on its last legs(or something), but I've asked for one for Christmas, so you never know.. :) I won a trip up to London to see Love Actually - travelling up Friday, staying overnight and seeing the film the next morning..Yay!
Jealousy
Oh, I say, snorgle, well done!
What is it with ladies? My wife has been fortunate enough to win two (2!) trips over the last few years - well, ten or fifteen years - one to Fiji and one to Mauritius ... grrrr!
waaant prizes!
[Dujon] Not this one. hmph.

Well, if the activity in the chatroom last night was any indication, we could be in for a fun time when Mondays roll around :-)

*blows out candle, wanders off*

Whoops
Just remembered that on Monday night I too shall be in Edinburgh. [Bob] I'm in Embra on Mon/Tues nights. I expect you'll be tied up with your conferencing, but if you fancy a pint let me know and we could work something out.
prize!
Got the details in the post this morning (first class does still work sometimes..) and we'll be staying at the Hyde Park Towers Hotel, so I hope it's nice. Luckily I managed to get tomorrow off work without any trouble..
Mcpilg
rab] That'd be fab - Monday drawback is I'm a meeting between 6 and 8 ish. I arrive (if Virgin do their stuff) at 15.41 so I've got some time either early or late evening. Tues busy until 9ish. If you are still able to go for a drink - email me!
*zoing*
hippy
[rab]Are you being Shaggy?
Shaggy
[snorgle] Isn't that rather a personal question?! But so as I don't become the subject of unfounded allegations I should point out that that's the sound of an email winging it's way to Bob the dog.
Rooby rooby roo!
ADD
Just to return to the subject again, oh wait jam tarts.....
ahem I had an ADD moment last night. I was watching a film which, whilst enjoyable, was not exactly the most demanding in terms of plot or dialogue After 45 minutes or so I found myself fidgeting and eventually I was balancing cigarettes on my hat, just to keep a bit more of my mind occupied. I wondered if this has something to do with it, maybe my brain requires more than an 'average' amount of stimulation and that maybe this could be related both to ADD and OCD? If I'm suitably engrossed in something, most of my OCD evaoprates only to return when I get bored again. Discuss?
bored
Sounds like you were just bored FG. I mean, its understandable really. What I am interested in though (and this may sound flippant but is a serious enquiry) is the hat/cigarette thing. Were you balancing the cigarettes whilst in the packet ? Or were you balancing single cigarettes on their end (far trickier) Were you wearing the hat ? What kind of hat was it ? Were the cigarettes lit ?
Mad? Me? Who says I'm mad? Mad am I? That's what those fools said in medical school. Could a madman do this? Hahahahahaaaa!!!!
[FG] Not wanting to bore on this topic any more than necessary, but yes, the more engrossed I am in something the less OCD I am, and the less, the more, if you see what I mean. But I think this applies to everyone to some degree. Aristotle says that the only people who eat sweets at the theatre are those who are bored by the play, the point being that there's no such thing as generic "pleasure", but rather each activity has its own pleasure, and the more engaged you are in an activity, the more you enjoy it. In other words, you can't completely enjoy two things at once, because they will compete for your attention; and conversely, if you aren't enjoying something, your mind will try to find something else to enjoy. Discuss.
I'm bored, too
Heavy, saucer-shaped object they throw in athletics competitions. Discus. sorrysorrysorry
Fidgeting
I can't sit still, especially in things that I'm required to sit still for. My mum refuses to sit by me at the theatre as i'm constantly shuffling in my seat and my boyfriend clobbers me when i fidget whilst sat next to him at the cinema. Its not cos I'm bored (as I'm often accused of) I just get un-comfy so feel the need to move.
numb-bum
[Lib] I find lot of theatre and cinema seats are rather uncomfortable at about the one hour stage. Shuffling is somewhat necessary.
stretchy legs
[Lib]I try to sit in the front row or on an aisle seat - more leg room that way.
Chat
Apparently, the MCiOS chat room does work for me at work. This is good. I should be along on Monday, meetings permitting.
The Kiki Thing
[FG] I know what you mean. I find some meetings to be similarly frustrating.
Hats
[st d] It's a wooly hat. It was on the floor. It was knitted by my mum with big thick wool and consequently (a) stands up on its own, and (b) has holes in it especially a nice one in the top. I managed to get a cigarette wedged in the hole, pointing vertically, and then attempted to balance another one on top of that, and so on. Quite a challenge actually, I never made it further than one on top of another.
Fag balancing
I remember a book by Julian Barnes in which someone lies on her back and smokes a cigarette all the way down without tapping it out, so that a thin grey column of ash is balanced perilously on top of her lips. She then reveals that she had stuck a hairpin down the length of the cigarette before lighting it to hold it together. If I knew how to smoke, I'd use that trick to impress girls.
If I knew...
[BM] Surely there must be some evening class you can go to.
For some reason I thought BM was going to give us the low-down on the ping-pong ball scene from Priscilla Queen Of The Desert. Its a great trick for impressing the boys...
ping pong
Oh how I laughed... What's the trick? It's dead easy!
What the?
After running in the high teens and low twenties, the weather has turned = 36°C as I type. Urrgh. Don't get me wrong, I am happy with that - it's tonight I'm worried about.
Someone broke the weather
That's interesting, here on the east end of the US we've had the opposite problem - High of 60ºF and low of 30 one day, high of 30 and snow the very next day.
Ping Pong
[BtD] Oh, if only I knew the low-down on that...
[Dujon] Where do you live?
talking of the weather...
It's a cracking day here in the mid-south of dear old Blighty... an azure blue sky, fluffy while cloudy things and lots of smiley faces .. especially on rugby fans.. Kinda makes me glad to be alive.
Outlook uncertain...
Lovely day here in mid UK too. I wonder what Edinburgh will be like?
Embraclime
According to my guest from that fine city, it's been warmer and drier than Manchester. Though that doesn't surprise me.
A porridge of high pressure
rab] Good. I shall bring mt Bermuda kilt!
for mt read my.
A boys weekend
Not only was the weather good here but the wife (and mother of three) left on Friday for a weekend of shopping with some of her friends, returning after tea today. Just a quick tidy up half hour before she arrived...a free weekend of no 'lists of thing-to-do', no 'we can't sit around here all day', just coke,crisps, playstation and the occasional nappy...easy.

Meanwhile over at Celebrity MC mini league Chalky takes over from DrQ at No 1, and staight in at No3 is the mysterious x_sugarbabe_x

slacking off and daq-ing off
[Inkspot] Lovely! I managed to grab about three hours of my own company this afternoon. I built a log fire and sprawled in front of the TV. Grand.
Re: Celebdaq ... yes, that daughter of mine is going to be SO smug when she sees how well she's performing. Strangely enough - I put all my pounds on the same person as she did after divi-time last Friday .. and today she has somehow managed to get ahead of me. Beginner's luck I say.
dak dik dak dik _ dak dak dik dak

Grumbles something about 'children these days!' and heads for the shed.
to do lists
Inkspot] Sounds like you should make her a list with: 1.leave me alone Please ! and 2. Stop making me lists and: 3. realise that not only CAN he sit around all day and do nothing, but he finds it remarkably therapeutic.
cross-posting
[To all Radio4 listeners] 1830 GMT tonight is the first of the new series of ISIHaC from Winchester. I'm hoping to hear myself laughing.
wish lists
Chalky]Three hours in a single afternoon? to yourself? Now that's sounds wonderful, I'll exchange you that for my Tom the toddler ("Read books daddy", "Do puzzle daddy", "Train track...", "Play cars...")The other two being 9 and 12 can be left to their own devices.

On second thoughts ignore that, I wouldn't change him for anything...
st d] It's not the just lists but the silent looks, perhaps Chalky could give some insight ;)

A plea
Why are there only two of us playing Mornington Crescent? :(
annoyed glares
[Inkspot] Doubt if I can share any insights, not knowing if the lists/silent looks are aimed at your role as a husband [B&Q, DIY, manly household chores] or father [guidance & gainful occupation of young things]. To be honest, I'm a fan of the school of 'sitting round all day at home with the TV/video/DVD/Playstation/CDplayer/piano/PC/Internet' especially when there's little ink smudges to look after.
Children actually enjoy sharing stay-at-home-stuff with relaxed adults.
I think there's far too much - [oh dear - high horse alert] - "Oh yah, to develop their full potential, little Venetia and young Felix are always occupied with ballet, moderndance, jazz/tap dancing, drama, horseriding, t'ai chi, judo, karate, kick boxing, cordon bleu vegetarian cookery, screen printing, blah-de-blah classes and isn't my 4-wheel drive so handy for running them around in?" Bollocks to all that. As long as they walk regularly, go swimming as often as possible, and actually spend some time with their parents, they usually turn out OK.
[Ahem - that is, provided their parent/parents are normal :-)]
adults
Hurrah! A non-neurotic parenting-type! Any room on that horse for the rest of us?
zk
Maybe they've got us on ignore...
ignorami
[AP] No chance Pet! I'm assuming that most of the 'onliners' last evening were in the chat server in MCiOS. I even leapt off my high horse to join 'em.
late chat
[Chalky] Ah, the pantomime. I was still chuckling about it even as I wwent to bed. There were a few more characters that I forgot to own up to... although this may have been before you came in. I was also the rocket and the Qualified Master Sofa Assembly Technician (who was ejected into high orbit when CdM pressed the eject button on the old sofa).
guffawing
[pen] Wonderful stuff - if I'd had more wits about me [or less vino IN me] I would have worked out how you managed that without my noticing. *plots fiendish strategy for next time*
Ah-ha!!
[pen] So it was you!! I think flerdle must have been the Door-to-Door salesperson - no idea who the monkeys were though. And I wasn't impersonating anyone. It was all I could do to keep myself upright on the chair most of the time. I wish I could have stayed :-/
*innocent*
I wasn't anybody other than myself. And I stayed to the very end. Seven hours in all. *was insane*
Oh, and I did get work done today. Honest, guv.
chatty
I was planning to do stuff last night, but so much for that.. :)
owning up
I was the Door-to-Door Salesman and one of the Shakespear-quoting monkeys - although I'm not sure who the other one was. I was sniggering so hard throughout I had aching ribs and cheeks by the end of the evening. As a form of laughter therapy, I reckon that would cure anything :o)
two windows
[Chalky] You just have two chat rooms windows open side-by-side. At one stage I had three - there was me as penelope, the (Retired) Firework Salesman, and the rocket, which fortunately didn't stay in the room very long as I was having trouble keeping track of what was what by that stage.
Regrets
It was a riot. I really wish I could have stayed, but playing from work and trying to work is too difficult for my brain to cope with.
roles
I was just me. Oh, and the IKEA delivery person, of course. And my apologies to everyone for being so non-communicative -- I kept getting tied up in these long work phone calls that required my brain.
I missed this. Will another be arranged?
[BM] It seemed like Monday night was a good night to meet, so it may happen, to a larger or smaller extent, any Monday from here on in. Or any other time. I think some people might be there this Saturday afternoon too. Check here for other announcements of a gathering-type nature.
chatroom
How does one find the chatroom?
Over yonder
Tina] On the MC5 front page there is a link to Orange and MCiOS, under the clock, click on "the Real time chat server Beta", enter your name. Whatever you do, don't press the red button!
chatroom
Thanks Inkspot.
What a load of fucking crap this site is, compared to Pants. No wonder I've left
Refusing to accept that that was the 'real' Rosie.
My apologies - that should have read:
Now, where was I?
Ah, yes. I shall endeavour to join those who may partake of the delights of the 'chat room' next Monday - I shall most likely be a wee bit late (assuming I make it at all) as 8pm on Monday to most of you is 7am to me on Tuesday.
monkey-business
[penelope] The other monkey was Phil.
simian episodes
[flerdle] Phil, was it? Cheeky monkey. He was poking fun at me all night. Just tell him I know where his pub is...
EEEEEEEEK!
My Celebdaq went all pink and has Simon Cowell on it! GAAAAAAAH!
Backchat
Sorry I was unavailable on Monday. I was engaged in an alternative form of chat with Bob the dog. It was a bizarre experience - there was no delay between send and receipt of message, furthermore the conversation didn't get out of synch with itself and we were able to teleport alcoholic beverages to one another in real time. I don't think my brain can cope with the sensory overload, and I'll have to revert to the old-fashioned style next week.
Brooms
Oh... and I feel it might be time to get the brooms out and cobweb away some of the games that are starting to putrify. Someone want to set the ball rolling?
Sweeping
I placed a fairly strong hint in the Carpe Diem game, though no-one seems to want to be The One Who Finished A Game.
Clang!
Just dropped another hint in the Centurion game.
Marvellous
Those were the two that were at the top of my list for treatment. So folks - remember the rules: revivals of old classics require a case for support.
alternative form of chat
Rab] Most enjoyable. Would be very happy to attempt further teleportations at some point in the future. Conference over, I am now sitting in an internet cafe in Waverly station awaiting my 8 hour train journey home.
New Game] never contributed but always enjoyed the longwinded game on !York...
Huit heures
[Bob] Do you have a bit of a long onward journey at your destination (as train conductors like to put it)? I wouldn't have thought it would take that long to get to where you're going...
Please, please, please, please, please?
There is a spare game slot. Would anyone mind if I started up a Lost Consonants Cat Room, so as to get out of the darkened cupboard that is the old game on MCiOS?
[Im] Well I dot min at all.
*hands Kim a torch and firmly shuts the cupboard door* I'm kidding!! I jet!
.. and now for the game of Mornington Crescent
Although there are plenty of MC variants scattered around the other two sites, might it not be appropriate to use one of the two available slots in here for a new one? We only have the Long Game. Perhaps an Imposters version of some sort ... like Literary giants? Or an old classic that I'm not aware of.
Guests
I think there's two slots, so we could accomodate both Kim and Chalky.
acknowledging
Hmmm rab .. I think I'll wait to see if there's any support for my idea, or even an alternative suggestion/theme, eg. a couple of weeks ago, Huxley mentioned [in MCiOS?] the Worldwide Underground Station map which drew some favourable murmers. Mind you, I haven't seen him around much lately.
[Chalky] Indeed - there was that; also I recall (possibly) Boolbar suggesting a story game in which each player pastiches an author of his or her choice. This could be interesting...
Oddly....
...it appears that someone has decided for the masses. Oh, and the worldwide map was from me. The author game was each player "plays" an author continuing the ongoing story in their own style and trying to introduce their own characters and elements whilst removing the other authors stuff. A sort of Authors Tag Wrestling.
Yeah - what's that all about? Sound charades is up and running at Orange so there's no need for it here.
Also both new games violate the principle expounded 11 moves up. Does anyone ever actually read these things?
deciding for the masses
I just created 2 new games, cos I felt like it, which was actually purely coincidental. I wasn't trying to undermine any of the ideas on here, I promise!!! I didn't know about the sound charades at orange cos this is the only site I use *slinks away in to the corner feeling very very ashamed*
Resolution
Comments from the floor please...
Oh dear. I've just spent ages combining my and Boobar's idea into an amusing posting for here, in a blatant attempt to 'sell' the idea - now it's all gone to waste. Humph. ?

Sorry ZK ... nothing personal :-)

reading back a bit ....
I'm afraid I had a crack at you [ZK] in the Balls Game - sorry if it seemed a bit snappy. As you're probably feeling uncomfortable about the whole thing- would you like rab to 'retract' the new games, then we can go back to where we were in the discussion process?
[rab] Is that possible?
Um...
[Chalky] It might involve closing the site for a few minutes, cos although in principle I know how to do it, in practice there could be traps for the unwary... (mostly because I've not had to do it before).
Surely you can just play MC to end the games....
end the games
well - shall we just 'end' the new games before they've begun, by using the magic words .. or does that mess up the Modern Classics archive bit?
simul-posted
[Boobar] Sorry - I simul-ed. And apologies for not crediting you with the World Map of Underground Stations a little while ago :-)
AGAIN!
Jeeeeeez - I've apologised 4 times in the last half-hour.
Sorry.
[Chalky] I'm sorry to hear about your apologising problem. I hope it isn't catching!
Endings
[rab] Trust me - you do not want to be in a position where you have to learn how to retract games rapidly.
Sorry to interrupt, by the way.
Other Endings
I'm seriously wondering whether we should end the Lies game, not because it is moribund but almost precisely because it isn't: have it go out on a high, so to speak.

thinks: I wonder if there is legs in games which never end, but which automatically drop off the front page if unused. Kind of half games which don't count against the game limit but which would be, as it were, already won when they're started. Hmm...

Phantom games
As long as people don't mind there being weird zero-move games in the archive, then not formally erasing them from the database gets my vote. I think I know how to remove things as though they never existed, but that's all a bit sinister and not very nice.
So...
A new game slot! What shall we do with it?
The Authorised Version
[Boolbar] Going back to the Authors .. *thinks* .. combine my Imposters MC idea with Boobar's pastiche using both writers/poets AND characters from literature - such as:
'William Shakespeare:
So long as men can breathe or eyes can see,
Thus Shoreditch tavern proffers alms to me.
Bridget Jones:
Gah to your poxy tavern Willy-boy! The off-license in Shepherds Bush has a token collection scheme for cut-price chardonnay.'

OK - so perhaps my example is a bit crap, but you get the gist?

I have to say, I'm favouring the MC Game idea more than the continuous story - only because the recent StoryGame in MCiOS took off like a rocket and fizzled into the ether rather too quickly.

Or - gasp - you could have a story game with no MC connections at all...
backing off
rab - wasn't that the style of the MCiOS one I mentioned above? Whatever - I've made enough noise for one day - I'm still relatively new to this site and wouldn't presume to start a new game in any case. There must be all sorts of great and original ideas from the afficionados out there :-)
sotto voce
Quickfire Patience Mornington Crescent while we're waiting, anyone?
pen...
someone called ? :oD woof woof !
New games
Oh, please, not a longwinded game! I still haven't recovered from the last one. Over a year on, and I haven't yet even had the strength to open the folder it's all compiled in, and see if I want to actually try and make it into a proper novel.
I have always fancied the idea of a Who do you do? kind of game - moves in the style of famous (or obscure, in my case) authors - I tried to get the recent MCiOS story game moving in that direction, but there were few takers. I'd quite like to play a standard game of MC at some point - there seem to be only the Long Games going on atm.
But maybe there's an entirely new game out there somewhere, and all it needs is a little inspiration...

But not from me, obviously.

Pisces
I should perhaps iterate that our resident custodian of exotic fauna (trans. Zooological Keeper) is of course still welcome to ply his or her trade in these grounds. Today's little flurry of activity should not be taken as a signal of any animosity or resentment. I am merely keen to see a selection of games that will keep a reasonable number of people moderately happy for an undeterminable length of time. My personal stance (for that be the box into which I type) is that variety and originality are two virtues that have been shown to achieve that aim. I would say we don't always need a committee decision before starting a new game if the idea is particularly unusual/cute/timely/whatever; on the other hand, since slots tend to be at a premium (and I see no need to raise the limit1), it's probably a good idea - particularly with the those that come round often - to see if at least a couple of others are up for it. </Jerry's_Final_Thought> *group hug*

[1] Unless offered huge wads of cash, or favours to a similar value.

Gosh, people have figured out how to use the words "Mornington Crescent"...
Activity! Well done folks, a bit of pruning never hurt anybody. Or maybe it did, but as long as their in the minority, they'll have to lump it.
Re: the remaining slot, some sort of impostors, or in fact any of several of the suggestions above'd do. If anyone can think of anything new and exciting, go for that.
Re: what pen said, is it worth filling the time with a quick MC bash? An eleven-move puzzle one'd be what I'd post if it's still free soon.
more stories
I would be in favour of one of the story game, but with the rider that each is a short between 10-15 moves, roundabout 100 words a posting (not written in stone). Looking at the recent games of this type there is an initial flurry followed by a slow death. By reinventing a topic every several moves could allow various impostered authors amemding the style to suit. As I'm not widely read I may need to come as a character Dennis the Menace!

In other news Celebdaq is back up and I've finally made to the Players Chart front page...at No 30. Still along way to go to beat penelope who managed No6.

Errr....
[rab and all] I know I'm only fairly new around here and I don't want to tread on any toes. I think that Rab is absolutely right in that a proposal for any new game should be able to demonstrate some support. I think, from my last posting, that I have support from Penelope and Boolbar and an accommodation from Rab, so, unless there are howls of disapproval in the meantime (or some other basard nabs the slot, I will start it up tomorrow morning (GMT).
Celebdaq
Does anyone else absolutely hate the new Celebdaq look? It's bloody annoying..
the end of the list..
You know the game right down at the bottom - the one called 'oooh, I wanna try this'? Well, I've broken it. I didn't start it, btw, and I have no idea who Jack O'Neill is, but I was demonstrating and, rab, I'm sorry, it came away in my hand.
Daq
[snorgle] I don't mind it all - to be honest I found the old one somewhat dark for my liking.
Celebcaq!
[Dujon]I liked that retro look. I don't like my new icons, either. *pouts*
Game ideas
I like story games. But they tend to work best when:
a) all moves are around 1 line each (I'd point to the long-lived Film & Crescent series on !York if !York were up)
b) the moves are anonymous (e.g. this one, maybe because of multiple movers)

But I'd also like a round of "Misheard Lyrics". A bit like Spellcheck Songs (remember that from !York?), except we rewrite chosen songs using soundalike words (not lookalike words). The last game was popular, as long as we kept the songs short

Query
Hmm, some nice stuff in that referenced game, MF. The song bastardisation - how did that work? That is, one line per post or the whole kit and caboodle? This sort of thing, or am I missing the point?

"My Way" (Frank Sinatra)

Kow-tow, they send the beer;
Ah so I'll brace for the coming burton.
Please lend, me some buckshee
To save my face, or it's the slate on....

Yes, I know it's not good - just off the top of the head stuff: but is that the idea?

Eggs sealant!
Eck! Sacked Lee, thee I'd hear!
I said in the original, "write as much as you feel like"; Blob usually went and wrote the whole kit and caboodle. Gimme a sec...
That should do it...
Try here
Hmm, 4 minutes isn't bad!
Interesting

Thank you for your trouble

Sorry for the delay - I've been fighting the Geocities' pop-ups. ... :-)

Do you think it will work? There seemed to be few contributors on that one - although, even though I'm terrible with lyrics, it sounds intriguing.

After the storm
[Chalky] Reading up a lot (my word, you people typed a lot today) I've tried to find this game you had a crack at me in, but can't, so no offence taken! :)
[Duj]
thank you, yes, yes and yes. Like I said, if people kept their contributions (and the songs) short, it'd go better. And, hey, the new-found PantsMC talent'll make short work of the whole thing!
'avin' a fink
Well, I'm not going to wax lyrical about the thought so, being somewhat backward about coming forward in these matters, I shall await further comments. Given that it's early morn in the U.K. at the moment I'm assuming that any critiques will not be posted until such time as a few hours have passed us by.
Early morning
Must...go...to...sleep....
Nods
New game
So, will someone fill the slot with a game that more than one person actually wants to play before some oh so hilarious wankwit comes along and starts one with a ridiculous winning move?
Nods
The job puns seem to have gone down well on the lies game. I think this warrents a game of its own so we can all get on with bullshitting as ...so help me God intended. Unless there is an outcry in the next 15 minutes - this I will do.
Rab] 7 and a half hours to get to Stratford from Embra. Home at last - and knackered.
Dons
[Bob] Oof... don't I feel terribly northern with a mere 4 hour trek? I trust your shennanigan met an appropriate level of success.
Jobsworth
[BtD] Surely we've overdone the job puns? - we need a different thingy to get our teeth into.
shennanigans
rab] my input was particularly successful, although the conference created a huge amount of controversy...
Bool] Yes I agree, but I still think it could carry on in a themed way - e.g. relatives, the wild west, puddings etc.
recall of parliament
Has there been agreement between Lost Consonants Cat Room and a story type game

make that one more for the Lost Consnants

*raises had for lot consonants*
thirded
I agree on lost cosnants - but I still think it is time the lie game got back to some good ol' bollocks - hmmm...
Quoracy?
Would anyone lie to do the honours? I'm not very good at witty tiles.
Another hit game has begun...
In the pink
[Celebdaq] I like it, a lot more clear and easy to use. The colours could be a little less pink though. What surprised me is that I'm 4th after a pathetic % increase.
Kak 'daq
Sorry - I think the new look's utter pants (no connection with defunct MC site intended). And it's bloody slow, as well...
CelebDrag
I'll agree on the slow bit.
Cyber pilg
How did it go? Will there be more?
chattermongers
[Bob] Mayhem and insanity - and yes :-)
If you can be bothered there's some postings in here a couple of pages back.
please ignore my dreadful grammar
*resists urge to make a horrific pun*
Boo!
I wanted to call it: "Lost Consonants: this time its persona!"
woooooooooooooooo
It's pretty quiet in here - mind you, my home computer has fallen over and can't get up, so I can only access from work for now..*sniff*
Wakey-wakey
[snorgle] I'd wondered where you'd been...

[all] Good weekend?

Weekend Loveliness
It was until I was awoken at 2:30 am this morning by a mouse which sounded like it was tearing floorboards apart with its teeth.
Rugby club bonanza
Boolbar] Are you sure it wasn't a giant, white, unbearably cute mouse?
I had a good weekend apart from the R A I N. I was also vaguely aware of England’s rugby victory (I found out on Sunday morning) - which was pleasant. What was unpleasant, however, was Christmas shopping on Sunday and having to tip-toe through a minefield of pavement-pizzas - a memento of local folks celebrations.
Weekend
Mac Expo on Friday afternoon, where I picked up a copy of Panther (MacOS 10.3), followed by spending the weekend in a hotel on a personal development course. Someone announced the rugby result at some point, and half the people went "YES!" and the other half "hm?". 20-17 in the last twenty seconds of extra time, apparently.
hm?
Raak] Do you feel personally developed as a result of your course?
Ooops - re reading that it sounds dreadfully rude - I didn't mean to be. What I mean was ...erm ..well, what is a personal development course?
personally developmented
[Raak] I would love to hear more. When I worked on a national newspaper many moons ago - they sent a group of us on one of those weekends. If I remember correctly, it was a hoot. I'm wondering if 2003 methods are less ... ahem ... aggressively american.
ISIHaC - round 2
Tonight at 1830 GMT. It was much funnier than the first episode broadcast last week.
Are we meeting tonight?
ce soir
[Rab] Usual tme, usual place. I'll be the one wearing a pink mink.
yesyesyes
... and I'll be cunningly disguised as a bricklayer's mate.
The enlightened being is [IN]
[Btd] Well, I found it worth while, though it would really be up to whoever knows me to judge the effect, if any. [Chalky] Do you remember what group it was? There are a lot of these things (perhaps less so now than ten or twenty years ago), and yards of self-help books in all the bookshops. I expect that Sturgeon's Law applies. I'll write more when I have time this evening.
Pilgy Pilgy
Probably won't be along this evening since I've a lot on at work today, what with the three day week and all.
Uselessness
Apologies for uselessness but what's the "usual" time? 8ish?
Excuses . . . .
Alas, I'll be working out in the gym. Then I'm chasing mice and putting doors up.
chasing through rooms
[Boolbar] If you put the doors up first, you can then shut them and therefore won't have so far to chase the mice. Also (if the mice co-operate) can the chase not be part of your workout? Could you persuade them to run at half-pace for the first ten minutes, then full-pelt for 15 minutes, then a cool down pace for the final ten? It would seem to be the organised thing to do.
Lost Consonants
[Kim] Surely that should be "his tie is personal"
M/R/S INKSPOT - HELP
A rather red faced Dujon appears before his accusers; "It wasn't me, Guv" He says. "The blasted Windows machine suddenly started opening windows everywhere and in my desperation to stop such infidelity I clicked all over the bloomin' place." He added, "Then I found I was no longer a member of the celebrated..." *sobs* "Mornington Crescent League on the Internet."
"Can you please put me back in there?"
"Sorry!"
Member No.: 3256726, Reg. Name: DUJON2774
Back in
Look what you have done! zipped in at No2.
The last time I looked I was the father of wonderful three boys ;)
Patch the dog
Last nights ball-gown cyberpilg was very amusing. By an incredible coincidence, this was in my mailbox this morning...

Its New, Its Safe!
Its The Most Advanced Penile Enlargement Solution! !
It's 100% Guaranteed To Enlarge Your Penis. 3+ INCHES!
MAGNA-RX PATCH! Etc etc

So now I know…

PS. I was under the impression that someone was transcribing events – or at least cutting and pasting. Is this correct, and if so, can I have a copy?
Transcript
I've got a bit of it, but I think DrQ's got the whole lot waiting for him on his machine at work. I guess it'll put in an appearance sometime this afternoon.
Weapons of Mice Destruction
[pen] Now why didn't I think of that . . . I used chemical warfare on the mice. Peppermint oil down the gaps in the floorboards that they want to get through. Didn't get as far as hanging the door.
As I was leaving the gym a young slim female was looking my way so I tossed my towel nonchalantly over my shoulder, only for the towel to land slap over my head. I guess it's a good job I'm already married.
throwing in the towel
[Boolbar] But you would have made her laugh - and that, probably above all, is what women like. Speaking personally, making me laugh would go a long way to making a man attractive to me. Our mate Phil the Landlord (who was working on a business proposal at the time) kindly help me draft a marriage proposal in the chatroom last night, but unfortunately it expired before I could use it. :o(
Laughter
Women like MONEY and IDIOTS.
an unvarnished truth
[st d] Yes, because both make them LAUGH. QED.
Dr Q has posted the link to the transcript of last night's cyberpilg in Orange 'Pilg game' - it's taken me a whole HOUR to speed-read it.
Yes. By the way, is Buttercup a regular visitor to the Crescent? I've been looking around for him/her.
Buttercup
Someone mentioned last night, when asked the same question, that 'Buttercup' is the person known as pl ... the pl person was around last week and is very funny.
Yes, I'd picked up on that... so presumably this is a 'chat-only' guise. Well the more the merrier, certainly! And it was pretty merry last night I thought. Toga party next week?
chat-a-tat
Aww! I'm sorry I missed that.. I have a blokie coming to look at my home computer tomorrow and hopefully he'll sort it out. It's acting very strange and will only boot in safe mode now. I can't work out what's wrong with it. Very annoying!
Diagnosis
[snorgle] I think the problem is that it's broken.
[Chalky] Before my intention to say some more vanishes off the top... The course I was on does come from the States originally, founded by two Anglican priests (although there's nothing specifically religious involved) something like 25 years ago. Difficult to say much concrete, really. It's mainly about learning to see things as they are, and noticing when we stop doing that. Just look at a lot of the postings in the Advice game at MCiOS for examples of the stuff people come out with when that happens. They're posted there in fun, of course, but how often do you hear people saying things like that in real life?
beta-talk
I had not been in a chat room before last night and enjoyed it greatly. Although I did not contribute very much(sorry), I'll try and do better next time, but my typing speed is tortoise slow.
paws are not so good to type with...
Inkspot] Thank heavens someone else is in the same boat! I nearly fell over in awe at the laser-wit demonstrated by some contributors - very notably Néa and Pen. Great evening – especially following on from the classic ISIHAC earlier.
Apologies for not being able to make it last night. The internet was broken. Or at least the bit of it that leads to my house was. However, an internet-fixer came by today, and so I have home connection again. See you all next week, maybe.
Mr Inkspot!
Thank you kind sir.
Aunty's slow
'Tis ok.
Is it just me at the moment, as I'm getting error messages and pages just not loading when looking round BBCi news.
I was barely there Monday night after the initial flurry of activity - the phone line and/or/therefore the internet decided to die, slowly and horribly. Am not going to be around the next two, probably three weeks. A pity.

and Dujon: please check your email, see if mine got through to you, and let us know what you think... Thanks.

flerdle
Your message has been responded.
Typos notwithstanding
[BtD] I'm flattered - and encouraged that my distinctive typo style didn't detract from your enjoyment :o). Mostly it comes from snorting with laughter so hard that I can't see to type.
keyboard madness
[Dunx] I managed to access the internet last night, but then the keyboard doesn't seem to be working. Then it started beeping and random numbers appeared. I'm sure it must be a virus, as I can't think why my keyboard would suddenly go mad..

Also, when I switched my computer off, it seemed to switch off, but I realised later that the screen was off but the power was still on in the base unit..

[snorgle] I think your computer needs a good defenestration.
[snorgle] Or some good, old-fashioned percussive maintenance.
quick fix
BB/Wol] You are both wrong. I would rather suggest hitting it with a hammer or throwing it out of the window. Far more effective.
fencing
[Boolbar]That sounds rude! [Wol]Tried it already. [st dogmael]Sorely tempted..
a window on the world
Ooh, I love a good defenestration first thing in the morning...
Seriously ...
[snorgle] sounds like it could be a virus (My father-in-law had - I think - Bugbear, which stopped him from turning his machine off. Of course, he could just have unplugged it ... It also seemed to disable Norton anti-virus, but AVG found it in the end.) grisoft.com have a good, free anti-virus (AVG), and also utilities for extracting individual viruses once they have been identified.
*Wandering through dragging a teddy bear and sleeping bag*
I'm off to have my second nap of the day. Ooh! Aren't I lazy?!?!
awooga!
[Wol]The faults make it difficult to get to websites and do things.. Hopefully, the blokie tonight will sort it out.. [Lib]Yes you are! Wake up now!
[Raak] Thanks for that. Your experience sounds altogether less pushy, for want of a better word, than mine. Yes, it was about 18 years ago and to be truthful, I've been raaking my brains trying to remember the name of the organisation - I've even looked for the notes I made at the time. I recall that the lady who did most of the front work was called Ross. As well as being highly articulate, she was also extremely funny, which may be why my abiding memory is that of an immensely enjoyable experience. Your interesting observation regarding the Advice Game in MCiOS has prompted me to revisit, reread and revise my interpretations of some entries. Fascinating :-)
Training
I used to have great fun watching training videos for a well-known electrical company borrowed from a friend who worked for them. Themes included "How to recognise a customer" and "What do customers need?” My own experience of corporate indoctrination was when I worked for a record company and was sent on an induction day. It was a disaster. We had to offer our perceptions about customer responses to their TV ads. I told them the truth, that the ads were patronising and superficial. I lasted two weeks.
Can there be any better time to say the word "pendulum"?
hanging time...
[Thos] I don't think so. It shut us all up for five hours!
Disappointing news :o( My first new staff member was supposed to be starting on Monday but she's accepted another job instead. Poo. The next one starts on 15th December though...
Today I read a sign in the hosptial foyer.

"Due to difficulties we are unable to serve hot food in the resturant tonight. Please bare with us".

Not entirely sure how taking our clothes off will help, but willing to try!

Dr in Undressed Salad Scandal!
Uh...no comment. :)
Celebdaq
[Inkspot] I'm confused. After kneecapping on Monday, I used my ten grand to buy shares in J Wilkinson. I don't appear to have received any dividends at all. Does one have to stay with the same celeb for a full 7 days to qualify? Also - where to we find the 'Dividend Payout' List for today?
Just a final word about that course...I've actually done several of their courses over the last 10 years or so, as well as being on the organising team a few times. It's called "The Life Training", and in London it's put on every two months.
Johnny who?
Chalky] I am suprised that you have no divis as the payout is proportional to how long its been held, if a dividend is £7, and you hold that celeb from Tuesday, you will get £3, the big winners will be those that had like evil_edna who had the shares for all seven days. You can request a daily update email from the daq towers which on Fridays gives your payout plus details on divi of the week. Otherwise it means waiting till Monday when the full list will be published.
ps the reason for my long tem minus weekly gain is I have a cunning plan!
*cackle*
Jonny Wilkinson is my pretty boy! And I made it to No. 81 in the national table :o)
feeling a bit short-changed
[evil cackling woman] Perhaps there wasn't enough of him to go round - everyone wants a slice of him now :-(
Anything interesting happening in MCiOS or Orange? My ISP isn't allowing me into either server - very annoying, especially as I'm having a quiet day at home and I've got time to play .... *sound of gnashing teeth*
Hmmm
I made the mistake of getting some Michael Jackson as well. Never mind. Well done miss evil :)
daqy
I got Michael Jackson as well.. better than nothing, I suppose.. it's probably not work going for Johnny next week now. At least my computer's working again! It was the keyboard, so one new keyboard later, and everything's fine.
ISPants
[Chalky] Hmm, I can't get into outer space either...
Nnnnoooo...no pars-s-s-slow....
No chat...GAAAH!
dubious parentage
Now look here all you ex Pants chaps, it's just not cricket, shutting up the clubhouse like that when a fella's off writing a novel and not leaving a forwarding address! It was a good job a small trail of crumbs was left at the profiles page and a friend of mine called Lycos knew where you'd all gone. Consider yourself heartily rebuke, nay, castigated.
Novel post
Welcome Mr Coyote, yet another Pants refugee. I believe we are distant cousins?
Wile E Smiley!
*popping in to flash a grin at Wile E*. Am watching Channel 4's 100 Best Sexiest Scenes from the Movies and it's really rather good.....
Channel Phoar
*Curses the day he through the TV out*
Super Genius!
Welcome to our new home, WEC! And how is Marie these days?
Hello again!
[WEC] Sorry to find out that various messages were not passed on - it's so hard to find decent help these days! ... :-) Anyway, you have found a few of us; did you employ Sherlock?
[DrQ] I'm more worried about Jeeves, to be quite honest, after all he's the one who serves the drinks. Marie simply, well, err, serves otherwise.
The lovely Marie
Ah, it's heart warming to be greeted by friends both new and old alike. [Bob] Would you be the Bob of the Kensington 'the Dogs' who was splashed all over the society pages last year? [DrQ and Duj] I found Marie stood on the steps of the old Clubhouse scraping a living selling sacks (at least I thought that's what she said) and she must have been down on her luck poor girl because it seemed she had hardly a stitch to wear! I did indeed send her to procure the services of the great Mr Holmes but the last I heard he had employed a new housekeeper and had retired to bed. I fear he may be ill because that was two weeks ago and not a sound has been heard from him or Marie since! No news of Jeeves, I assumed he had been packed up with the other chattels of the club when everyone moved. I'll keep my ear to the ground.
carpet bugger
wec] 'Fraid not. No I'm one of the Bromsgrove chapter. However, I did make a splash in the society pages. As a result, I had to spend the rest of the day outside.
monopoly
Every time I look down the Home page I feel like an evil taking-over-type person! Just clarifying here that I don't do it on purpose...
jeeves update
[Anyone even remotely interested] Popped round the old place looking for any clue of Jeeves' whereabouts and heard an odd scratching sound. Turned out the old chap was asleep in the billiard room when you all locked up and he's been surviving on the contents of the belowstairs larder and discarded podumes ever since. He had planned to dig a tunnel to escape and the plan was well, advanced, he had just unupholstered a couple of the old wing chairs from the servant's lounge to make the top of the vaulting horse that he had fashioned from the Dom Perignon crates in the member's cellar when I broke in and tok him home. He was beside himself with glee and ached for news off 'his gentlemen' and I tol him that I had tracked some of them down at a swanky new club. He seemed utterly delighted and asked to come down in order to seek employment and to meet you all agan but I put him to work immediately, buffing up my favourite 'Crescent Jacket' and digging out my Lumpton Jr texts from the library so that I may fully immerse myself in play once more. It's for his own good. See you soon, must fly, he's preparing a sumptuous dish of Bernard's Turkey Drummers and Alphabites and I don't want to miss that.
Termination of Face Pyjamas
May I suggest a game of "Christmas Cards you wish you'd never received"?
Goodnight
[gil] Hmmm... sounds interesting. Perhaps one could also pastiche those "newsy" letters that people insist on sending round this time of year.
stupid pewter
Agh! My computer has flipped out again! It refuses to even start up now - I must complain to computer blokie as I think it was something he did.. (v. stressful, this..)
Pastiche and chips
Newgame] How would Christmas cards work? Like postcards from Hell? That never seemed to take off.
Round robin game? Yes! Finish off previous sentence, start next sort of thing?
This year Mary and I decided to
Takeoff
[Bob] Really?
Bob the dog sentence
murder our parents, who had long been
Erm, no then.
All] Same time same place tonight?
Rab] Ah! I've not seen that one, it looks better than the last one on !York.
snorgle] blackmailing us with photographs they took of us on holiday when we were three. Fortunatly for my parents they had
silly sentence
[Btd}...thought of this, and had boobytrapped their...
sn] catflap with gelignite. I was most suprised, a little singed and completely failed to
..effect a surreptious entrance. Seconds after the blast..
Aside
(sounds like a player - shall we get it going?)

...Mother responding by getting...

Tear in the space-time contiuum thingy!
Reverse the polarity! Divert all power to deflector! Issue 'date 1201190703.34' as root! Hopefully dialling the server's clock back an hour won't break MC5 too much...
Another vote for the Bob-the-dog sentence spectacular.
...out her feather duster...
Or of course we could always do Good News / Bad News.
Too late! The deed is done
Tuj] coming to the Online cyber-pilg tonight on the MCiOS chat server? The dress code is Cowboys 'n' Injuns.
New Game
OK. It kinda worx.
New Game
[gil] It seems to have turned rather quickly into Random Prose, though.
*** game
I was grateful to be reminded, at about 6.50pm or so yesterday, of the fantastic potential of Censored Songbook (from the King and I - 'shall we *****, shall we *****, shall we *****?'). Any takers? Possibly only subtly different from the Pants Game but, for me, right at the other end of the comedy spectrum (ie funny).
****
[Wol] Yes indeed. I second that one.
I **** it.
Item of cutlery in a hot place.
I guess we could all give it a ***.
Is it just me or is a huge chunk of the 'net unavailable today?
nonet
[Wol] I think it's ******
Did you have a good time in the chatserver last night? I spared you a thought but was too busy chasing after a puppy with paper towels and wetwipes.
I so hate Geocities!
***** game
[Wol] Is that a vote for ****ing the pants game?
Tried to access the chatserver last night but ***** internet connection in my residence won't let me. Hope a good time was had by all.
*Warning, self promotion moment approaching* I was on national radio this morning! (Well, me and about 100 of my friends). Singing a Christmas Carol (recorded in June) from our CD. Rather exciting!
*****
[rab] Why yes, I believe it is. [Boolbar] I **** cute little puppies. [Lib] Oooh - which choir? Which radio station? Which carol? I've dropped out of the singing world a bit (job, studies, baby, etc) but I remember the thrills.
sick puppy
That is a very pretty puppy. I would like to ****** it.
it is ****
I did it. I ****** the pants game. :o)
i bet you do
pen] I've heard that you like ******** as well.
So was it an early night in the Chat Server last night? I say that, because I breezed in at 11.45 dressed as The Gal Who Cain't Say No to be greeted by a party of two. Thankfully, they had mildly silly names, so i didn't feel like a complete twonk. There are times when it would be useful to have a 'peep through the window' facility :-)
chat windows...
[Chalky] We don't encourage voyeurs! You are always welcome to come in as you are, we don't mind if you're inappropriately dressed (we always have spare costumes in the cupboard anyhow.) I was calamity pen, by the way, and Ma Whisky (I think Projoy recognised me as his mother), and also the Dusty Missionary. Ooh - and Zak from the Pony Express and Will Bill Hiccup. I was not, nor ever have been, the Spittoon or the Daddy of All Spittoons. And I'm sorry I sat and wriggled on Breadslinger's knee, I was in character and I got a little carried away.
Down with ****s
[Chalky] Yeah - we were being tired, methinks. Peeping through the window would be handy - but would anyone ever enter?

So the *** game - is it entire songs, just titles or indeed non-song specific?

[pen] I was one of the spittoons and the daddy, but not concurrently.

Massive Missive Musses Trellis
[gil, Raak] With the missive, I wonder whether it would be best to push this one to the end of the year, and perhaps set down some sort of 'theme' or similar for the next?
******* Whiskey and Wild Wild Women
[pen, rab] Sounds more fun than a stuttering dress rehearsal. Three of the principals have lost their voices and it's the First Night tonight. Ho hum.
Fer Gawd's Sake someone start the new game before some bozo drops by and claims it for a round of Spit the Pontoon.
[Chalky] Be my guest.
first night breakages
Break A Leg tonight, Chalks! I had great fun in the wild west saloon, and the theme was all down to your mention of Oaklahoma, so thanks for that. I'm womdering what the venue for next week's meeting will be... the Sports Centre? A restaurant? A Country House Hotel?
small squeak
... not quite brave enough to start a new game ...

Thanks pen :-)

*CLANG!*
I was the original spittoon. How they teased me at school.
Pro Joy
Projoy] You made me so much last night I'll be sending you the laundry bill.
I think I was all the misspelt 'spitoons'...

[*** game] I would start this, but I need clarification on whether it's strictly a songbook (i.e. song titles), songs themselves (as I believe is the case on ISIHAC) or a more general game.

Missive T
Rab] You are right about MT game - it'd be better in bite sized portions. I wondered about a Jekyll and Hyde theme where player alternate personas. Bit like Goodnewsbadnews in letter format...?
Executive decision
Right - it's verses of songs (for now) but feel free to do poetry, short stories, or whatever else tickles your ****.
**** advice
I tried to start one of these **** games back at !York, but my poor attempt at explaining it (and its lack of having appeared on a then-recent ISIHAC) caused it to mutate and ultimately perish. Use it wisely, citizens of MC5.
[Wol] Hallé Orchestra and Choir, Christmas CD, on Classic FM at 7.50 this morning.
Missy Penny-lope, any time y'all wanna wriggle on ma knee, y'all go right ahead. Just watch out for ma spurs. Hhhhhhwaaaa-ding!
knee-sittin'
[Breadslinger] Did you have your cotton-pickin' eyes shut? It weren't no Miss Penny-lope a-sittin' on yer knee, it was mah own beeeootiful self!
blackballing Ma Whisky
Can we do something about that woman? She keeps following me around!
Wasn't Brian Ma Whisky the chairman of the Conservative Party under John Major?
Eeeew! And I let him sit on my knee!
Hmmph!
[Breadmaster] Pffft!
*CLANG*
* rolls slowly across the plain *
Ewired
I've just got me an evoke digital radio. Oooooooooh its soooooo good!
digirad...
Oooooh! Lucky you! I might treat myself to one for the kitchen after Christmas. Then I can listen to it while I'm surfing at home :o)
evocative
[Btd]I've had my eye on one of those..staticy radios are so-o-o-o-o annoying..
rad-ing the kitchen
[Btd, pen, snorgs] I'm still waiting for them to go down in price.
[pen] Sounds as though your PC is in your kitchen. Not so unusual really. I have a kitchen-cum-diner-cum-office, which rather places me in the centre of ground floor activity; fine if I'm home alone. It does lend itself to easy raiding of fridge, though.
gone digin'
This one was on special offer - I think because it is a 'classic fm' model and has a button to get you straight to there. I do not like classic fm very much so that button will (mostly) remain unused. Its the other channels I'm enjoying - BBC radios 6 and 7 are top of my list at the moment. 6 'cos it has interesting music and 7 because of the archived comedies including ISIHAC. And it has a pretty blue screen too.
writing in stereo
I bought a new stereo in september. When I was looking around I wanted a CD player, tape and digital radio combo, preferably in a mini hi-fi system with good speakers. However such a device is not made 9which seems a bit daft to me). Grrrr. So I just bought the stereo and will wait for a digi-radio to get cheaper. My bro has one though, so I might pinch it when he's not looking (in the evil-little sister way of doing things!).
cheapskate, me? The 7th Earl of Lancaster?
[Btd]The one I saw at Boots was £99, so how much is the Classic FM model? Is that the one at WH Smiths?
Yup - reduced to £71.
That was me by the way.
Personally I'd want a hi-fi separate digiradio, cos although these retro-style portables are all well and good I don't understand why you would want a high-quality, distortion-free digital signal piped through a three-inch speaker.
rab] This one has line out on the back (I checked before buying) - so I can (and will) use it with my seperates. And the speaker isn't bad at all!
random question
What countries are we all from on this place? I sometimes detect language/ideas from the other side of the pond, and I find it all very interesting.
countries
USA. Although I try to use the British spelling when I think about it.
Why, I'm in London. Where are you, ZK?
UK - Statford-upon-Avon.
[Bm] Kicking about a messy student flat in Birmingham :)
Kicking a dog about in a messy house in Bucks!
UK also..Birmingham also..Sutton Coldfield exactly
Oh, Angus...
[AP] (ignoring the obvious rspca-needing overtones) You just told me it wasn't that bad! :)
Kicking about in a small, scruffy semi in Herts. [Angus - where are you in Bucks? I'm just 500 yards from the county line, sheriff]
[Chalky] It's a laptop on the kitchen table. Very handy for grilling sausages while I surf, although there's never anything interesting left in my fridge. Sometimes I take the laptop upstairs to watch DVDs in bed :o)
Multi-tasking
[Pen] Does that mean that it is used as an electric frying pan cum hot water bottle? How often do you need to wash the bedding?
[Dujon] It only really needs doing if I fry fish.
Luxury
When I was small, I read a book in which a character declared that mangos should always be eaten in the bath, because of the mess. For years, eating mangos in the bath has been my idea of utter decadent pleasure. But I have since revised this to watching DVDs in bed on a laptop, which I now do frequently and with enormous satisfaction.
Eeek!
[Pen] *Urrgh!* ... ;-) [Pen & Breadmaster] Without mentioning names, there are some who frequent this web site who worry me!
Hang on, officer
Not those kinds of DVDs. Dear me...
thereabouts
I'm in Cardiff - which has finally got rather cold..
Pretty chilly in Mancatraz this morning too.

Got a delightful letter from my Grandma this weekend. My favourite comment was "The things that go on in the Villages. I could write a book about it, but they'd have to bin it.". I presume she meant that it would have to be binned because of the scandalous content, but with that combined with her rather free-form jazz writing style, there could be a Booker Prize in her...

Narrrch here, in the flatlands north east of London. Cold and sunny today.
CD DVDs?
[Dujon] Lord no, not those kinds of DVDs! The ones I can remember watching in bed are the Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter and Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon...and it's generally when I get 'flu, which isn't very often at all.
The NW London 'burbs are very bright and sunny. At 11.30GMT, my car is still thoroughly frosted over.
Icy here. The water inside the chicken coop froze last night. Poor chooks.
Is there a dress code for tonight? May I suggest Inuit?
[Bob] Bring your own igloo party? As long we can speak in English this week...
Cold?
It's -10 C here in balmy Pittsburgh, after Friday's 8-10 inches of thick, wet snow. Woo-hoo!
brr..
As my damn 'puters still doolally, I probably won't be there again.. :( I'll take a hammer to it tonight and try to threaten into submission, we'll see how that goes!
Geographically speaking...
Currently lurking in the Essex suburbs, to answer the earlier enquiry...
Location, Location, Location
[ZK] Portland, Oregon USA now, but formerly of various parts of the UK, and originally growing up in the fine Surrey outpost of Ilkley, W. Yorks.
random things one knows
Alan Titchmarsh grew up in Ilkley. Fact. Is Oregon east or west?
Orientation
[ZK] Of what?
[Location] Currently, just in Bucks (by about 300 yards from Beds) Very close to the Herts border, too - in fact, I drive through all 3 counties to get to work.
[Watty] Well that's a coincidence. I was born in Chorleywood, which happens to be on the Herts/Bucks border: I was born on the Herts side, by a couple of hundred yards. (A road actually runs along the border, and is appropriately called "Shire Lane" - the odd-numbered houses are Herts, the even numbers are Bucks. Or it may be the other way around.) Not so near to Berks or Beds, though.

Whereas, having gone to school in darkest mid-Somerset, now I live in Manchester...

The Titchy One
[ZK] Indeed he did - he's a patron of the theatre where I did some acting when I was growing up, and where my sisters still do.

Oregon is west coast. It's the state between California and Washington (Washington state being a completely different place from Washington DC, of course).

more interuptions
This has taken a bit longer than needed and its still not right I'm not happy about the table layout, the colours, border but finally, with my apologies for the late arrival, Dec 5 and Chalky has topped the Celebrity MC League.

At least I know slightly more than I did two weeks ago about style sheets, attributes, values and syntax, but I still need to do boxes and margins.

Oooh... nice!
[Inkspot] Nice table. I'm hanging onto Jonny Wilkinson for now ;o) even though he's gone down in value. Hoping that there'll be more about him in the papers after today's victory parade.
top chocolate
Well done Inkspot. I'm growing rather fond of my four green Mars Bars :-)
Cresdaq
How did everyone join that?
Joining Fees
[ZK] If you are interested in silly games, join up on the BBC web site, get sorted with registration and, if you ask nicely and advise your player name and number, Inkspot just might add you to the 'team'.
Where?
Sorry - it would help if I gave you an address:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/cgi-perl/celebdaq/trade.cgi?registershow=1

Celebdaq tables
[Inkspot] Unless you are deriving some pleasure out of composing your own table, why not use a screen capture program? I hope that I am not being rude, as I do appreciate your time and trouble spent on this 'game'.
If you are interested, there is a freeware programme available at This site
An example of its output can be seen here.
That, by the way, is my one and only attempt so I'm sure it could be improved.
Hmmm
Then again, it's a bit big. I'll take that back. ... :-(
speak up!
Is anyone going to say anything today?
[pen] Still in shock from last night...
[rab] I should imagine you're exhausted . .
?
So will anyone admit what went on? It's very mysterious...
mystery
[snorgle] rab rode a bicycle around the chatroom (which relocated to an igloo last night) for about two hours. Nothing remarkable about that, you might think, until you realise the saddle was made of ice. I think he might also be suffering from being in the company of Lib in a mackerel-skin basque, Chalky in Lycra and me in a seal-skin bikini. That's a lot to take in. ;o)
We also had a visitation from a nude Jade Goody. Least said, soonest mended.
oooh rab - your SO SWEEEEET!!!! I fort youd say summink NHAAHAHAHHH!
Am I dreaming?
That was NOT me... I know I'm responsible for a lot of weird stuff in the chatroom on a Monday night, but I wouldn't dream of inviting Jade Goody on here... honest. Naaahahahahhahh!
This places Chalky firmly in the frame...
What's happened to Mr Wildpants' Mornington Crescent site? I've lost Puckoon to the ether...
A Death in the Family
[Mr T] Sadly, Pants MC went the way of all flesh a couple of months ago. The Lock Cup has been transferred to the new Lockisseum site, but players of other games have been finding a warm welcome here and at the other MC sites which remain.
Igloo pilg
Damn - had to miss it because of deadlines and computer problems. It sounds like it was a classic. Will the transcripts go up on Orange?
And welcome Mr T. All you need is here.
oooh missus
[Bob] I'm afraid the link to the transcript is already there. *blushes*
Hello Mr Trebus :-)
exciting happenins
My computer is being mended again - but I'm getting a new one for xmas, a nice shiny new computer with dvd re-writer and flashing lights(maybe)! Yay!
Speaking of the late Pants MC....
Does anyone know if Rosie is posting anywhere these days, following his little flounce-out of here a little while back?
Hello Bigsmith
Dujon may know a little more. Yes, a petulant flounce is certainly what it was. Seems we weren't quite good enough for him :-)
Yeah.
Does anyone know what all that was about? I'm all for constructive criticism, but I thought his exit comment was rather uncalled for.
[rab] I was rather hoping it was a misdirected moment of madness in the wee small hours after one pint too many, so was waiting for some form of apology or even explanation. I agree that the comment was crass and puerile; as for what lay behind it, one can only surmise that, as a mature adult, Rosie had his reasons. A dignified exit would have, at least, demonstrated a modicum of respect for you, the host.
rab] I thought some arsehole had posted using his name.
[Bob] Me too, which is why I didn't think too much of it at the time.
Time out on rugby ball
Oh sh*t. You know I was chatting about my fabbo date planned for tonight with the rugby coach? Well it's off. His grandfather 'died this morning'. It's either a big lie to get rid of me, or his grandfather did it deliberately to f*ck up any chance I had of graduating out of my enforced spinsterhood. Either way, I'm taking it personally. *reaches out blindly for proffered hankie from sympathetic MC-fivers*
a clean handkerchief
[pen] Aw! And I was just about to post a 'break a leg/wing bone/bottle of bubbly' sort of message to you because I'd remembered that tonight was supposed to be the night. Intending no disrespect to his grandfather who may/may not have passed on today/recently/ages ago, it's probably for the best. You know what they say about men who talk about themselves all the time ....
and a box of choccys.
pen] Either he has no imagination or he is telling the truth. Either way you win!
*sniff*
Thanks you two. I'm going to spend the evening in a Bridget Jones way, wrapping Christmas presents to within an inch of their lives and painting my toenails.
Reason I asked
I too thought Rosie's last entry totally out of character and probably bogus. However time has passed with no further sightings, and I was curious that's all. Miss the old buffer truth be told.
Penelope's night in
Watching DVDs in bed seems a popular choice for a night in these days. I have a quiet night in for once myself tonight which I shall spend with my nose in a book - wading through George MacDonald Fraser's Flashman papers for the umpteenth time. Fantastic stuff.
pondering
Rosie was great! It isn't that bad here, so maybe it was the loss of a particular game that upset him?
It isn't bad at all
It seems that he is missed. I hope he gets to know.
Colin Firth around the corner
[Penelope] It seems to me that this chap can't have been of good genetic stock, given his grandfather's propensity to die at socially inconvenient moments. A night in with your toenails sounds far more enjoyable. If it's any consolation, I have to spend tonight in with the Venerable Bede, who is not the best company.
mine's the one with the faux fur around the neck..
[BM]The dead rarely are. They often smell, for a start.
feeling sorry all round
[pen] I think the word 'arse' sums up things. Hope the DVDs hit the spot. [all] I'm feeling very sorry for myself today. Hangover. Seemed a good idea at the time. Hows everyone else today?
[pen] Tsk. [lib] A little tipsy, after preparing for a 2pm meeting with a couple of pints during lunch, and looking forward to seeing Johnny Vegas in Liverpool this evening. I hope to be hungover tomorrow, saturday and/or sunday, though, at which juncture I shall feel your pain.
Feelings
[Lib] Very well, thank you, although I can't figure out why I'm so tired today. I fear I may be battling a bug of some kind, my wife having had a sore throat for a few days now. With any luck a nice vigorous run this morning will shake the various bits of phlegm loose.
[pen] *hug* Sorry about that, chuck.
All hugs welcomed but....
[Dunx] Thanks.. but maybe you should just keep your distance until you get over your bug! (I've already kept off one lurgy from my Kiwi flatmate this week). BTW, a rib-splitting belly-laughing session has just done wonders for shifting the phlegm from my tubes this afternoon. My colleague has discovered my weakness for anyone doing impressions of Jim Royle's 'ha-HA' laugh and now my ribs ache. :o)
Santa Ted
Deck the halls with boughs of holly, he's back!
And this time it's not even accidental. Must remember to take him down at the end of the festive period.
Poo, lots of it.
Hmmm, I wonder who chewed that hole in the carpet.....
If that's a reference to Christmas Ted, then I would suggest your browser is to blame.
missing persons
[Boolbar] Ah - so Poo Puppy is responsible for keeping you away from the Crescent?
relief road
phew - the traffic has started moving again in the Limerick game..
One down, three to go
The first of my attempts to avoid the prospect of unemployment next year has been put into action. Won't hear the outcome til May though...
[Chalky] Is that a reference to Boolbar's poo post?!
[Darren] oh dear, yes - the juxtapositioning is rather questionable :-)
Be vewy vewy quiet....
[rab] Is it grant season already?
[DrQ] Oh yes indeedy.
Academia
How does that work? Does lack of grant mean loss of tenure, or does lack of grant mean that work to gain tenure cannot be undertaken (unless independently funded)? Sorry if the question seems imbecilic but I have no knowledge of how it all dovetails.
Foo!
I dunno how it goes on the Eastside of the Atlantic, but over here profs apply for only-God-and-her-secretary-knows-how-many grants, out of which they pay their postdocs/grad students/other staff, as well as equipment costs, and *cough*40% university overhead. Around here, if you want to get a tenure-track professorship, you pretty much need to have grants in tow.
[DrQ] That's pretty much what happens over here as well. Except that we don't have tenure any more, so even when you have a job, you still have to run as fast as you can to keep it. Especially if you're in a 4-desperate-to-be-a-5 rated department.
hang on
Rosie's back!
The house at poo corner
[Chalky] Indeed. The puppy (Frodo) is delightful but he also needs a lot of attention. Plus the ongoing mouse in the roof situation and the leeking outside loo means I shouldn't be here now.
cupboard love
[Boolbar] Where are you? Hiding in the cupboard under the stairs until those problems are sorted out by someone else?
(again)
I'd just like to say that I've found the perfect combination of undergarments for inclement weather whilst walking and exhibition-visiting in town. A long-sleeved thermal vest plus a long sleeved shirt will keep you warm but not bulk you out. Can I also recommend the '100 Years of the Art Fund' exhibition at the Hayward Gallery.? Bloody excellent. And now I'm going to bed for some well-earned sleep. See you all Monday night in the chatroom when I will tell you how my new member of staff got on during his first day with me as his boss! :o)
(and no, I'm not pissed, but I hope to be tomorrow)
A weekend away and I return to find that penelope's well insulated for the weather and likely to be pissed by now (11.50GMT), Frodo puppy is as demanding as he is appealing and it's grant season in academia - so the only contribution I can make is, yes I had a wicked time and can we do something Christmassy tomorrow night, like Santa's Toy Factory in Lapland, or something like ....?
Lapland and frigidity
It's 'funny' at this time of year to read the various comments about the cold weather. ... :-)
I'm sitting here in my workshop in a light short-sleeved top with a coolish - for this time of year - day outside. It's about 23°C at the moment (11:57Z) and one of flerdle's eight legged friends is sitting on the Holland blind a couple of feet away from me. Sorry, I don't have a digital camera otherwise I'd take a pic for you. He's a Huntsman, which generally have a much larger body size than the Wolf Spider which flerdle displayed a while ago. No doubt he's having a nap, being daytime, and only occasionally moves his legs around.
Should I get the chance tomorrow morning I shall attempt to join you in the chat room of MCiOS, but having work to do it may not be possible.
toasty
I'm just back from Melbourne, Sydney and Cairns (well, Atherton Tablelands, actually) where it was occasionally stormy but nice, beautiful, and stinking hot respectively. It is rather warm here but not too bad, all things considered.

Having missed it for the last couple of weeks, I'm afraid I probably won't make it to the MCiOS chatroom this Monday night either as I have to fly to Newcastle (near Sydney) for work. Plus I'm just knackered. *groans*

mints
I'll try to make it..my computer is sort of working, and I should manage it. Is 8pm too early?
pilght
I'd love to pilg tonight as I had so much fun prancing around in my mackerel skin bikini last week, but I've got a problem. Can anyone help? What it is, is there's a big content filter here (where I live and work and have my only net connection), so Shhhh, don't tell anyone I access (as I've not asked but am sure if I do then will be told its not allowed). Anyway. The chatroom doesn't work. The clock on MCiOS functions (so I think I have flash 6) and the chatroom page loads and tells me nicely to type my name 'here' and then press connect, but it refuses to connect. I've tried clicking on it many ways (including whilst doing a handstand, which quite frankly just looked silly!) but can't figure it out. Any bright ideas? Please?!?!
light
[Lib] You might be better off asking Dan at MCiOS since he's the one who understands how the chatroom works. My guess is that the communication between your computer and the chat server is done using a "port" (which is a bit like a particular telephone extension on a switchboard) that the hospital doesn't want you to have access to and there ain't much you can do about that.
blight
My work computer doesn't like the chatroom either - I'm not going to complain as I get to use the internet as much as I like, otherwise..
new game ideas
Now that the crossword chat has crept into the crypt ... I would love to play an Imposters game of some sort.
Impostulating
How about murder in the dark imposters. Correctly guess the identity of other players for points. And what do points mean..?
points mean
Piccalili?
Tonight
It looks like I may not make it to the chatroom tonight, on account of entertaining a visitor to our department. On the other hand, that may well not go on too late, so I might make a late entrance if I take my laptop with me.
re: Tonight
[rab] You mean someone *willingly* went to Manchester? *ducks* Then again, one could make the same claim for Pittsburgh and its 16" of snow the past two weeks....
Belatedly
PRIZES!! sorry
Impostors Crescent - the return?
Well, if anybody wants to play over on Mornington Crescent in Outer Space, you'll see that somebody has started an Impostors Game there - with a twist. The more players, the merrier, and let's see how it develops...
Oh goody ... how about Good News/Bad News ... here?
oops
It seems to have happened :-)
Impostors
How does this imposters crescent thing work?
Imposing
[ZK] You pretend to be someone else, and play the entire game in character as that person. (Hint: browse the archives!). You display your imposted moniker using a '!' sign in front. I'm afraid this is a geeky thing: '!' means 'not' in C and related computer languages. Oh, and the game's at MCiOS in case you were unaware.
Andanovverthing
Usually once the game has ended, the unmasking begins. I think I've worked one of them out already!
Groovy
Sounds like fun to me! However, must go and clean out fridge. Less fun but entirely necessary.
It's not that bad....
[Dr Q] You should visit Manchester, it's not half as bad as rab makes out. Maybe we should have a mini-plig here......
Mini-plig
Maybe when Nik comes out of his coma and JLE has finished his piano practice, this could be arranged...
I've been wondering about a Super Pilg. Format - our very own ISIHAC. MCers are warned of the games and prepare in advance. We'd probably have to stay up late so a hotel venue would be best. Any takers?
A nod to Bob
[Bob] Thought I'd best acknowledge your wonderings, particularly as they incorporate the words 'staying up late', 'hotel venue' and end in 'Any takers?' - not a question one would wish to leave hanging overnight :-)
Obviously the whole shebang would be recorded, or even filmed, and in the true tradition of the travelling ISIHAC which has torn itself away from its London roots, perhaps somewhere central to all participants, say ... the West Midlands?
Freelance MC
Sounds a fab idea - and if I were able to attend could offer my services as cameraperson and/or video editor, although I've not any decent sound recording equipment.
100
Should anyone fancy a go, I've posted a cryptic film quiz that has turned up in the office. There are gaps which stumped us.
[Inky] Is part of the test of the quiz to find it?!?! Or am I being daft? [BtD] A super-pilg would be fantastic. Let's do it!
Lights come on!
[Inky] I've Found it!
Did I forget something?
Oh yes I put it in 'Obscure vault 99 '
Coma? What coma? I'm fine. Honest (note: I'm not fine).
ISIHAC pilg
Ok seems like that ones a goer. Wishlist for venue:
Real Ales(?) or decent beer at least
Overnight accomodation for those wishing to stay
Not too expensive
Centrally based - Perhaps Oxfordshire?
Room to use as venue for parlour games - preferably with piano (is someone prepared to take the place of Colin Sell? Projoy?)
Any suggestions?
Organisational wishlist:
I'd love to help prepare the programme, but who will compare? rab?
Camerawork - blamelewis (excellent) And we'd need at least 8 regular players (and their spouces, friends, relatives, animals etc). + piano player...
As for timing, how does a weekend in May sound? We should have time to plan, hotels will be cheap, weather not too bad...
Did somebody say piano player?
Ooh
If I'm not tied down by those meddling exams I'd love to come along...if not, circulate tapes!
... and I would've gotten away with it too if it hadn't've been for you meddling exams!
Oh look, it's the only other human we've seen all episode
That was where I was going with it :)
Crescent celebdaq
Can I join?
Mr Piano
JLE are you a pianist? If so would you be interested in a diverting evening of entertainment playing parlour games?
Wild night
How does THIS look as a potential venue?
Comparison
Not sure I have the necessary wit, charm or smuttiness to be a viable compere.
[Bob] Well, I'd say I was a pianist, if no less than six qualifications of various different types from music colleges and still an inability to get a steady job means anything of the sort...
Noteworthy
JLE] Fantastic - and a willing participant?
rab] I beg to differ.
Spank
I'd need a script.
more players
ZK] Visit Celebdaq towers to create a player profile and buy some shares. Come back here and post your player ID No and I will add you straight away. For my sins I have two accounts in the league as does Uncle Korky. I'm still not sure how blamelewis has managed to grab the No1 shot at the moment but there will tears before bedtime after the divis are paid out on Friday!
[BtD] I see a plan forming. Thos might be willing to help work on a script of some sort (if we could cope with all those puns!). And the proposed venue is acceptable to me.
A Thos script would be superb. The St George is OK but only has 8 rooms (Mostly double and en-suite) cost £70 per room B&B. There are other B&Bs within walking distance of the pub. I've been ringing some contacts at the BBC and I may have secured a guest appearance by the one and only Samantha. I assume she would be available to tot-up the teams’ points.
Would love to do it, but depends very much on the cost.
celebdaq
am already registered, but haven't looked for aaaages...*goes to find number*...3058974.
oh_danny_boy
ZK] You are in and added to the league, I hope you will enjoy the friendly competition ;)
Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay!
Fabbo! Thanks!
Returning from bbc.co.uk
Wahey! I already suck! This'll be fun!
ISIHA?
JLE] Thanks.
Lib] Can you ask Thos if he'd be able to do some scripting?
all] I think that £70 per room is probably too expensive. Plus the getting to the venue. If I could find somewhere for about £30 B&B, how many would like to participate? As I said, we'd need about 8 definites to make it worthwhile. So far:
Btd
Lib
ZK (as long as no exam conflict)
blamelewis (I assume yes)
JLE (As long as not too pricey)
maybe...
[BtD] I don't know where Thos hides, but Projoy does, so maybe if he's reading this he could ask him. Thanks Projoy. And I have to say that I'm really not that witty. Early in May would probably be better for me (as already have work, choir, hen night and wedding to schedule around!)
'I like driving in my car'
[JLE] I'll most likely be driving down to the super-pilg from Manchester(ish), so you could have a lift (to make it a bit easier on the pocket).
I would echo "not too priciness" comments.
[Lib] Lovely, as I'll be going from Manchester. The only trouble would be getting back afterwards, assuming the usual amount of Pilgrimage alcohol-consumption... unless you happen to be the one and only teetotal person in the world of MC. ;-)
Alcoholiday
JLE/Lib] If you can afford to B&B it, then you have at least one night to recover.
Seeing as rab is also from Manchester, is there room for further car sharing?
rabbiting
[BtD/rab] rab can have a lift too, provided we're still talking at that point! And if Nik, the other near-Manchester crescenter (that I know of) wanted to join our car-party then he'd be welcome too. We could have a very long game in the car to extend the pleasure! Whee! [JLE] I'd rather B&B it to facititate alcohol consumption, if it fits in with your buget.
Frolicing in May
I've just cross posted the idea onto Orange and MCiOS. Lets see what happens ...
seasons bleatings
May I just say, there are some truly revolting Christmas card illustrations out there? I just unearthed a pack of 50 hideous ones. OH well, they came out at 5c each...
Unconventional
[Lib, rab, Btd] This sounds more like a "convention" than a pilg. Although I suppose I should avoid that dread word, rendered frightening by SciFi fans. Thos hasn't been hanging around lately, so I've popped him an email. It sounds like the kind of thing I'd enjoy, tho, so put me down as a willing participant. If JLE's on the ivories, perhaps I could turn his pages or play the swannee.
If singing is required, I can also sing reasonably well in tune, but would need to be provided with *both* music *and* words, as I know remarkably little music that is less than a hundred years old.
(This is just in case we end up doing One Song To The Tune Of Another. My voice, by the way, is a fairly high tenor, as those who have met me in Pilgrimages can attest. I've sung lead tenor in a barbershop quartet before.)
Conventionality
How very flattering to be remembered! I would of course be delighted to contribute in any way thought useful - and though there are many, many funnier people round these 'ere parts, and several script writers amongst us, I would be exceedingly happy to provide/contribute to/collaborate on scripts. I would just need a brief and a spot of notice! *Thos bows*
seasons bleatings
[flerdle] Feel free! I have in fact been telling anyone who'll listen about this cultural epidemic I have lovingly termed "Ugly Jesus". This Christ bloke (apparently some kind of child star in his day) has made a startling comeback this year in cribs, nativity scenes, christmas cards and so on, about which of course I am thrilled, were it not for the fact that he tends to be portrayed as anything from rather gangly to positively misshapen, and every so often poor Mary makes it look genetic. Send me your sightings of Ugly Jesus - you'll notice it's true!
Interesting fact. Well, interestingish.
There was a tradition in ancient times that Jesus was ugly. I think that this came not from any genuine historical fact but from Isaiah 53, which the Christians believed was about Jesus, and which describes the "suffering servant" as not beautiful to look at.
There is also an apocryphal book called the Acts of Paul, which describes Paul as a short, bald hunchback with a single furry eyebrow like a big caterpillar. However, these were considered signs of beauty in ancient times, so they are probably not historical either - apart from the baldness.
in tune
[JLE] Personally, I think singing in tune is probably a disadvantage.
Re: in tune
[Projoy] Quite right -- Jeremy Hardy gets the biggest round of applause in 1S2TTOA....
Intonation
(Dr Q) That's because his singing is so magnificently awful. The worst thing would be just a little out of tune. Garden and Cryer are both really good singers, especially boozy Barry.
Singing
I can't remember who it was who did Mr Boombastic by Shaggy (I think it was Garden) but it was absolutely superb.
Hardy - a laughing matter
All] I am planning to have one song to the tune of another. Projoy & Thos - you are very welcome to contribute and play (email me - my details are on the Orange pilg board).
It looks as if it is going to be a lot of fun! I nearly gave Samantha the job of preparing the briefs, but have decided to handle them myself. This will be done by New Year. Dunx is helping out with parts of the script and I've also had offers from I Say Porter. This works out well because both are abroad and can't attend (although Dunx has suggested a live phone session - is this a technical possibility blamelewis?) LotUS and Herr Bratche are also keen to attend and help.

Does anyone have a supply of Swannee Whistles and Kazoos?
Musical Instruments
It shouldn't be too difficult to fashion a Swanee Whistle out of a bicycle pump and a descant recorder mouthpiece though the pump might need to be sacrificed. A Kazoo is a comb with a bit of thin paper stuck to it.
technicalities
You'll get plastic kazoos and quite possibly swanees in most tacky gift shops :) Phone sesh: I believe you can buy a mic to fit to a phone to amplify what the person on the other end is saying, but I'm really not all that confident with sound stuff - a lot depends on numbers and size of room - if it's fairly small scale then a phone with speakerphone and everyone else keeping quiet might do it, if it's pretty big then you're into PA's and so on - none of it impossible but it begins to need careful planning and cost money!
The critical info for me is really just the details of when and where... Date, location and cost of staying will determine if I can make it - I'll try my damndest! Assuming I can then I reckon we should find out what sort of size the place is and what sort of equipment the venue has, or can accomodate. In terms of video recording and sound:
Camera: Mine (miniDV camcorder) - and if we have 2 or 3 other attendees willing to lend theirs we could record fixed close ups of team a, team b and "humph" with the option of a fourth camera doing a wider angle and audience reaction shots, piano cutaways etc etc... The venues lighting will be a consideration especially as my camera is a consumer model and therefore not too good under anything other than bright lights
Sound: for that I reckon if we have Bob the Dog's 4 track and mics for team a, team b, "humph" and the piano.
My thinking is based on the assumption that it's primarily a live show for an audience, with two teams, a chairperson and a pianist. We want to perform it live and only use retakes if absolutely necessary. I'd be interested to hear from anyone who's attended a recording of ISIHAC about how the day ran in technical terms - if they recorded items out of sequence or with breaks in the recording... My email is blamelewis at yahoo dot co dot uk. In terms of operators for all that technology it could be done on a minimum of two (1 sound and 1 camera) but the more the merrier...
Singing in the pain
I belong to the Jeremy Hardy school of singing.
Exactly
Blame] I've been lucky enough to go to a recording and I suggest we follow exactly the same format. At a particular venue, two shows for two consecutive weeks are recorded. They are recorded with a break in the middle which acts as refreshment time. I suggest that we have a Humph and four players for the first half followed by a beer break then a different four players for the second half. If we get more interest, we could get a second Humph (It'd be nice to ring the changes and offer the seat to more than one person). I've already had enough MCers showing interest to guarantee at least nine attendees, and if we get more (and I think we will) - we either have a bigger audience or will have to plan for more games.
Technically the shows are recorded in one go. Obviously there are times when a line is muddled (Humph is king of this). He simply starts again and the fluff is edited.
For those who have never attended and do not wish to know some of the secrets, I will paste the rest of this message on the laser display board.The show is semi-improvised, players having prepared for questions but still happy to ad-lib. The laser display board is John Naysmith with a piece of cardboard and you never actually see Samantha.
live recs
On the occasions I've seen it recorded there are usually some drop-in retakes to do at the end as well, but we perhaps might not be quite as fussy as the Beeb.
musical instruments of the plastic variety
I'm pretty sure I can get a decent kazoo from the local music shop for about a quid, if that.
Uber-pilg
Colour me interested.
pilg
Can I ask that I only be semi-coloured interested, tinted perhaps, as I won't want to disappoint nearer the time should it turn out I can't make it.
more interuptions again
Good luck to you all going to the pilg I'm not able to get a day or weekend pass.

And in other news, blamelewis is hiding his light under a bushel, so in the time honoured fashion it gives me great pleasure to announce, he is this weeks No1 on the Celebdaq.

The Mother of all Pilgs
...and I can't get there. :(
celebdaq
oooh [Inkspot] Ta for the mention. I suck, but who knows? I may get better! :)
Celeb!
OOh - I hadn't noticed! It's all down to Michael Jackson and Liv Tyler. One of whom I idolise...
Nice things
It's all right, Lewis, they say he's a nice fellow if you dig deep enough. Now, your shout isn't it?
anglo-australian misunderstanding
Gary Packer's a poof!
Or whatever the name was...
Feeling bored
Okay, okay, so I can blame insomnia and lack of common sense for my feeling deserted at this time of night I suppose but where have all the other late-nighters got to?
Late night?
[ZK] It's only 8 PM local time here :)
forgetting international time-difs
Ah yes of course. currently 1.11 am. Am often up far later, which is why I'm so grateful for the game's wide appeal :)
Silent Night
Bit quiet here today? If anyone's epilging tonight I probably won't make it as I think my house is doing Christmas drinks.
The Missing E-Pilgrim....oh, here it is!
I'm in right now.
[Dr Q] I would be, but I need to concentrate on writing this document.
[Dunx] I've taken the liberty of doing that for you.

(Actually, that was done in xfig using splines. Sad to say that's infinitely neater than my actual handwriting.)
[Cross-post] I'm away from today (23/12/2003) until I don't know when (latest, new year's eve). This means that if anything should happen to angrycake.com, I won't be around to resurrect it, and so MC^5 will be down. With any luck, it'll all be fine and dandy, but if it's not, be forewarned.
Just checking ;-)
Still working...
Do you need me at all?
Merry, Merry, Quite Contrary
If I don't get to post before - have a Happy Christmas / midwinter non-culture specific break.
reciprocating
... and you, rabsome one. xxxx
Hurrah!
Christmas cheer all, may your presents be unwoolly and jumperish (or if they are may you have wanted them to be), may your surroundings be loving, may your company be cheerful and may your crackers bring forth crap jokes. xxx
Festivites
Given that it's only just over twelve hours to Christmas Day in my neck of the woods I offer my warmest wishes for Christmas and the New Year to all who read this. I shall think of those of you in cooler climes as I sit back tomorrow in shorts and lightweight top, sipping on something cool, whilst the King Parrots and various versions of Lorikeets dazzle my eyes as they execute precision fly pasts.

Merry Christmas!

bah (sheep?) humbug and other such noises
I'm working all the way through the fun n laughter. Does the NHS ever sleep I wonder?????
[widey] Not in my experience.
lunchtime requests
Can we have an imposters thread? It looks like fun!
Yuletide greetings to all!
At work!!
Merry Xmas to all, particularly those like me who have to go into work.
More holiday cheer
May I wish a pre-emptive Happy Boxing Day to all, and if you're Antipodean, enjoy the tests (despite the NZ-Pak test being delayed for bad light after just 3 overs. Feh!)
testing time
It is Boxing Day here now, stinking hot as usual (11:30am, 34C, 50% humidity)so we're staying in the two airconditioned rooms in the house and playing with new toys. Yesterday was a scorcher too, and the city was completely deserted. It took three hours to finish lunch with relatives and we all just lolled around under the fans until night fell and it was time for a spot of backyard cricket, and then on to the next party. Strangely enough, I didn't feel like having breakfast this morning...
I know you don't really want to know this, but later on...............
I'm going to get very very drunk, which is nice!Happy day of boxing one and all.
Outrageous
Poor Plump! What do you do? I was scheduled to work nights over Christmas, but luckily weaselled out of it - won't be so lucky at New Year though...
Happy Holidays. Oh Yes.
Hmm. I can't wait for work again on Jan 5th. :o(
work
[Breadmaster] I work for BT and yes you've guessed I am in work this weekend as well.
Work?
I, too, am at work, after a freak brownout took out our webserver and several other machines. Feh!
Oh sweet merciful heaven
The voting public have just named Grease the greatest musical of all time. I have lost the last lingering thread of my hope for this country....
Of all time???
Surely you jest!
I jest ye not!!! It beat the sound of music to number one!
And Cats, Joseph, Les Mis, Chorus Line, Top Hat, the Wizard of Oz...I could go on, but it's just too depressing...
TOMMY CAN YOU HEAR ME?
Now, I'm no musical buff...but how does Grease rank above Tommy and Phantom?
It doesn't!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My theory is, that it wasn't intentional voting. You see, on these channel 4 polls you can vote for up to 10 of the things on the list. Now, what I'll do on these polls (I didn't know about this one) is vote for the ones I like and if those run out I'll then vote for the ones I've seen and thought were okay. I bet that about 40% of Grease's votes were fom proper fans and that the rest came from these 'leftover' votes of people going "ooh, I liked Grease, I guess that deserves a vote" and the witless ba*ds made it number one!!! I wonder how many people voting for it to do well meant to vote it into that position! You should have heard the screaming in our living room when Sound of Music came up as number two - cos we knew what the only two choices were by then!!
trouble right here in River City...
Are we talking movie or stage here?
A nation [or those that be bothered to vote] decides
My all-time favourite, West Side Story, came fourth, but I have to agree that overall the results indicate some bizarre opinions on what constitutes a 'musical'.
Ta, Chalky
West Side Story - magnificent. Porgy and Bess at No. 77! Sacrilege.
Well, it's a fun and eclectic list, and I'm happy to have Grease in the top 100. But the order is a bit whacky, and given what is on there, I miss The Music Man and Into the Woods (but am tickled to find Chitty Chitty Bang Bang and Bugsy Malone). Probably from the Big Read voters, or the folks at IMDB who would have us believe that Finding Nemo is a better movie than Notorious, Manhattan, The Bicycle Thief or The Graduate...
Durrrr
Well, I have never seen The Sound of Music, West Side Story, or Porgy and Bess, and I liked Grease. Lucky I don't vote in TV polls, really, isn't it?
Grease fans are entitled to their vote but I still don't believe it's the greatest musical ever! [Toby] Both. The oddest thing is that she said two hundred thousand people voted. Oh, I guess that really reflects the opinions of the 5 million strong public, doesn't it? I say that channel 4 never advertises these things properly - always the programmes, but never the votes. I didn't find out about it until the poll was closed. Even this "Musicality" competition they were advertising after it closes on January the 7th - it's the first i've heard of it. Come on, channel 4, put yourself about more!
putting it about
[ZK] I guess Channel 4 were relying on the sponsors, The Daily Mail, to promote and encourage voting, which to be fair, the newspaper did with considerable gusto back in the Autumn. Trouble is, many of our select community are too sniffy to read the aforementioned rag.
the daily mail
or skint....
Breadmaster
I for one am more horrified that Breadmaster has never seen The Sound of Music. How is this possible?
Musicality
Ha! Next he'll be claiming he's never dressed up in fishnets and sung I'm just a sweet transvestite!
Well, just call me uncultured. I'm tone deaf and I don't like musicals, although whether these two things have anything to do with each other is a moot point. I have therefore never sung I'm just a sweet transvestite, but I decline to comment on anything else.
Question?
Question?
Oops.....At what number was Guys n dolls?
G & D
No 36, Widey. Next time you can go find it yourself ... ;-)
Attention, Rosie.
Answering your question in the limerick game - rather than clutter up the thing.
mallee is a low growing eucalypt. There is an area in (I think) N.W. Victoria where these are endemic and which is known as 'The Mallee'.
Standing to attention
OK, Duj - thanks. Nice pong, eucalyptus, probably due to isopropyl and tert-butyl groups attached to an aromatic ring. Better than the assortment of sulphur compounds my aromatic ring tends to produce.
Peg-on-nose
[Rosie] Eee, by gum, lad! The oil of the eucalypt is used for many a 'good' thing; whether or not sulphuric substances fall into any of those catagories is food for thought, though it is oft used as a balm. ;-)
Hrmmph
Catagories s/b categories. .... sorry - brain fade - again.
100 Best Musicals
This passed me by completely -- you see what you miss if you don't stay alert? -- and it turns out to be quite an interesting list. Some predictable injustices -- Sweeney Todd at 80 vs Phantom at 20? No Follies or 42nd Street (the movie, I mean) or The Band Wagon? But it's nice to see Cabaret and West Side Story so high, and indeed (though some will scoff) Once More With Feeling and Moulin Rouge, two sterling attempts to keep the form alive and popular in the 21st century.

The bottom end of the list is probably more interesting than the mainstream top, with unexpected appearances by The Umbrellas of Cherbourg, All That Jazz, Hedwig and the Angry Inch, Dancer in the Dark and so on. Was it being made into a (rarely screened) film or just having "Send in the Clowns" that got A Little Night Music onto the list? A good thing, either way. Curious that they list the 1962 film version of Gypsy but the pic and review are for the 1993 TV movie with Bette Midler.

And did anyone really vote for The Jazz Singer (#65) as the "Best Musical"? Historically important, for sure -- but best? Smells a bit fishy to me...

Intermission
Not wishing to interrupt, but I thought I'd just remind people of an impending pilgrimage on the 10th January. More here. Now, back to your usual programming...
100, er, musicals
I was just upset that Hair came in so low (below Starlight Express, for goodness' sake!). I've never seen Once More With Feeling, but the samples they gave left me distinctly unimpressed. Wasn't there a cop series (Cop Rock?) a while ago that did this kind of thing with considerably more style? I, too, missed Into the Woods, among other Sondheims, but his stage-bound nature got him there, I think.
The hills... the hills!
Incidentally, despite liking musicals a lot, I've never seen The Sound of Music either.
more musicals
These are admittedly one my least favoured forms of entertainment, but I did manage a half dazed interest in the top twenty. But I wonder how many of those made in the last 10 years will have a following in 30 years time, hopefully the mistake of Once More With Feeling will have been long forgotten.

Also congrats to blamelewis for his second week on top

What, this is still here? Criminy.
I've some ideas for the May event (provisionally entitled ISIHAC 2 (This time it's unprofessional!) and I've started using the To Be A Pilgrim message board on Orange as the main mixing desk. I've had lots more feedback over Christmas although I'm still hoping to hear from Projoy and Thos - so contact me if you want to help put it together.
contact
[BtD] Beagle-style missive sent off.
The Beagle has landed.
[Btd] Yeah, but is it talking to the mother ship?
A Happy New Year to all you fine, fluffy people. Thank you for letting me sidle in amongst you.
Bonne Annee
Happy New Year to everyone too! (Only 32 minutes before I finish..)
I'm required to leave so the table can be set up for an impending New Year Eve's party. So ... happy new year. See you tomorrow with a hangover, probably.
Happy New Year to all you fine people! Let us drink a toast to the year that has seen the sad demise of PantsMC, and remember all those who *finally sucumbs to the whirling pits and falls down*
knock knock
Happy New Year!
once more with feeling
Bleedin' 'eck, 2004 already? Seems like only yesterday it was 2003. Happy New Year!
Emergency supplies for stray chicken
[Bob] Tomorrow, it seems that I may become foster-mother to a stray chicken. It's too late to tell the full story - but what do I need to get in to make the poor mite comfortable until it's reclaimed? Straw and what ...? I've got budgie food ...
again
By the way - Happy New Year to one and all.
Chicken rescue
Happy New Year too! Chalky] What an odd way to start the new year!
Basics for chicken care - chucks eat:
Grass,
Porridge,
Cabbage, lettuce, any greens,
Grains - preferably corn and wheat - but budgie food may do in the short term,
Worms and stuff they dig up themselves,
And don't forget some water!
If this becomes a long-term thing you'll need to let her have a supply of fine grit too.
If you have a lawn and can set up a small fenced area - four bamboos and some pea netting would do - as day-time housing. An old rabbit hutch would do at night or a very big cardboard box with some chicken wire over the top. If you have sawdust in the bottom of the housing, it helps make poo-disposal easier. Longer-term, stick in a short thick branch (as thick as your fist) for Chuck to perch on at night, and some straw in a corner for it to lay on. And all the best! I'd love to know the story...
chicken run
[Bob] Thank you SO much your help. At this moment I am still awaiting news of said stray chicken. My brother was supposed to have retrieved it and delivered it to me today - but I haven't heard a word. We were at the same New Year party last night, when all this was agreed, so perhaps he partied into the early hours and has spent the day recovering. He hasn't answered his phone either :-(
OK - the story .... last Monday, the chicken announced its arrival at his house by flying kamikaze-style into his front window. After trying to ignore the poor thing for several hours they finally allowed it through their house to the back garden where it promptly positioned itself on top of their grape vine. They tried everything they could to discover its ownership including local radio announcements, etc. but with no sensible response. Anyway, after opening up a small shed for it and allowing it free range, yesterday his wife announced she couldn't cope with the 'mess' any longer and rather cruelly [in my opinion] chucked it out the front door and watched it wander up the road. A couple of hours later, guess what? It returned to begin the flinging itself against their front window again. He let it through to their back garden with a promise to her that he would find a home for it ... and that's where I come in.
Chook
I hate to suggest this, Chalky, but given your sister-in-law's outlook on life, it's probably been, er, well, you know. Just don't eat at her place for a couple of weeks, OK? ... :-(
Awwwww
What a cruel woman! I'm slightly puzzled, however, by a chicken that can fly into a window and sit on top of a grape vine. What kind of super-chicken is this? Or is it in fact a pheasant or something?
bob boc boc
Chickens can fly! Just not really well, usually. I think they can't be bothered if they're well fed.
chicken supreme
I concur with all reactions to my little horror story ... and yes, Breadmaster, they do fly, particularly if being chased or in a panic. I still haven't heard anything more, so I'm going to pop round this afternoon.
Best of cluck
Chalky] If they offer you a sandwich, beware of feathers!
snorgle] The longest recorded flight of a chicken was (apparently) 13 seconds. I'm very encouraged that the chicken could fly - it means it was not clipped and was probably kept free-range.
Amazed
Well, you learn something every day. When we had chickens they would sort of flutter up onto things like very low branches. I just can't imagine one getting up enough height and speed to crash into a window - although I can certainly imagine it getting up the requisite stupidity.
rab in eptitude shocker
Hmmm... this upgrade seems to have worked. You shouldn't notice many changes, except the tag tickler has now been installed for the benefit of Bad HTML devotees. Basically if you put some dodgy HTML in your 'stance', you get the option to 'debug' it, which basically means your HTML will be presented in a fairly easy-to-read fashion, with the grumbles flagged up as they occur. It's in its early stages - comments are welcome.

The HTML checker itself has been refined. In particular it treats quotes more sensibly (which should please Nik at least).

Oh - there's an experimental text-only theme which should kick in automatically if you use Netscape 4.7x, Lynx or Links (not been able to test Netscape). Those watching in colour can see it in action by clicking here. A nifty feature is that inline images are turned into clicky links. One day there'll be a proper link to this, and I'm hoping it might eventually form the basis of a version for mobile devices.

*has more features in pipeline, but only two days before school*

Plain theme
I like it -- now everyone with web-enabled PDAs has no excuse. :)
Plane Theme in glinks
It looks excellent in glinks (links -g) as well, so if I ever have to boot from my Damn Small Linux boot CD, it should look decent.
The chicken has landed ...
... but not sure if she'll survive the night. Will keep you posted.
chucks
Here is a link to a forum about chickens. It's quite interesting!
Henny news?
Chalky] Sounds as if she is in a bad way? :o(
Christmas Ted has gone and its not even twelfth night! Sacrilidge!
Christmas Ted
I'd only forget to take him down on Tuesday (or is it Monday?)...
Happy New Year and all that
Let's see what fine Crescenteering 2004 will bring...
Freakout
Chickens, eh? God, it all happens round at Chalky's, don't it? Happy New Year all!!
Another one comes around
[Thrax] Welcome back (again)!
chicken feed
Hello Thrax :-) Hope your visit isn't too brief.
Chicken: She seems quite subdued, but otherwise fine. Our sources inform us that she probably wandered off from her farm base [about half a mile from my brother's house], so I've telephoned and a chicken expert is coming round tomorrow to pick her up.
Oh ... thanks Bob, snorgle and everyone else who offered practical and moral support. I've learned a lot. As for the wicked sister-in-law, well ...
ISIHAC2
Apologies for x-posting. Following up the ISIHAC2 - 'This Time Its Unprofessional' pilg in May - ISP and Dunx have kindly offered to write the 'Humph' bits 'cos they can't be at the event. I already have a list of 14 MCers who want to attend or play and Projoy has very kindly agreed to be one of the 'humphs' for the evening. However, I need another. Two people now have suggested Martha Farqua. If you think you’d be good Martha, (or if anyone else has a good suggestion) please contact me. Ta!
what the...?
I deliberately didn't keep any shares in my portfolio over xmas, thinking I'd buy some fast-movers and shoot straight up the chart in the New Year - and whaddya know! Looks like all you conscientious types got kneecapped and slack tarts like me floated to the top... *cackle*.
Negativity
Enjoy it whilst it lasts e_e.:-)
The League Table has the collywobbles for some reason. e.g. I shows me with £6 and -99% wheras it should be just over £14,000 and 40-odd percent (I was kneecapped and so can tell. I think I was the only one zapped this week - although x_sugar babe_x must have come awfully close.)
Good to see you around and posting, Thrax. Are you able to stick around this time or just making a short visit?
Freakout
Much obliged, Chalkers and Doc. Hope you're well. My best wishes to all MCers at this time of year. edna, you talking Celebdaq? I tried me hand at that but failed miserably. I just don't follow Celebrity 'News' closely enough. I think I'm genetically programmed not to give a monkey's about J-Lo and Britney and Posh and Puffdaddy and Hugh Grunt and all those other deeply talented but criminally underpaid and overlooked, long-suffering, attention-starved, self-effacing, public servants who give so much and ask so little in return. Bless 'em.
Additional.
good to see you too, Dujon, old boy. I've no idea how long I'll be here, nor how often. I'll just play it by ear and see what transpires. It's good to see a few familiar faces though - or rather read some familiar names.
Felicitations
Happy new year everyone... and, just to show how long it's been since I last sat at a keyboard - I hope everyone has a merry Christmas too.
Humph!
Trying to find reasonably priced accomodation with a piano is not as easy as I'd expected. JLE - anyone - do you have an electric piano we could plug in?
by the by...disillusionment
*distraught* so...Bob...is your name not actually Bob? Now I don't know what to believe!
Oh yes, and my exam period *is* over May, so I doubt I can make it to the pilg-type-thing. Sorry! :*(
It's awful when your illusions are shattered, isn't it? Still, I'm quite good at baking, you'll be pleased to know.
My initials, sadly, are neither Z nor K. I should really go and do some work... :)
As previously discussed, I'm not even a man!
I picked up a print of Simon Patterson's The Great Bear for Christmas (see here: http://www.dareonline.org/artwork/patterson/patterson3.html), which would form the basis of a wonderfully surreal game of MC.
Sorry - still can't get the tags right for a hyperlink!
Freakout
I wouldn't panic, Korkers. I can't unfathom morethan about three HTML tags here. Even though the good Doctor Q enlightened me several months ago. I lost the list. Bummer.
Youngsters these days
UK]I like the idea, have a peek at "All Games", back in the early days of MC5 there was a game of the Great Bear unfortunately it took a while to find a map, and the link from Boolbar is still active.
Ivories
[BtD] I'm hoping to purchase an electric piano soon, but need to buy the house to put it in first!
Bobajob
ZK] Aw, and I thought you really believed I was a dog too! The likely dates are 22nd and 29th May. Will your exams over by then?
Come On Over
No, not a Shania Twain string starting, but a reminder there's an e-pilg tonight in the MCiOS chatroom. All welcome. No responsibility can be accepted etc etc
the morning after
For those who missed the MCiOS chatroom cyber pilg, you missed a corker. As my ex-wife will testify, eh Pen?
Disillusionment...
[Inkspot] Cheers! Well, another supposedly original idea bites the dust!
last night, she said...
[BobTD] *wink*
Grrr...
Missed that - was at the cinema. Was this a Britney-style union?
I definitely think a bottle of vladivar was involved...
cheering up Incle Korky
UK] Look in Orange MC - new game started yesterday :-)
Missmatchmaking
rab] Yes. I was married Las Vegas style to Pen and she divorced me within seconds. Chalky narrowly missed me on the rebound. Dr Q got hitched to a chicken, had kids and was haunted by the spirit of his undead hen bride seeking vengence for leaving him with the odd-looking kids. I hope your film was worth it...
Losing it.....
In the past week I've managed to embarrass myself in public twice. The first time I shoplifted by accident (but in the end paid for my error) and I fell asleep in the cinema last night and started making strange noises.... I think I need a therapist!
*Rejoices*
[Chalky] Wahoo!
Freakout
MC ad other ISIHaC games are the best therapy. Everyone knows that.
Apropos absolutely nothing
I had to laugh a couple of evenings ago; my good wife was leafing through some of the junk mail which had been 'posted' into the letter box since the start of the new year. Honestly, I couldn't believe it - one food based company was advertising hot cross buns!
Freakout
Better than some of the garbage the Labour party sends me through the post every Christmas. I get these lists of "useful numbers" - ie. services provided locally. It's all drugs helplines, domestic violence support groups, local police contacts, child abuse support services etc. etc. I was left thinking, "oh thanks, guys! And a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to you too." Never had anything like that at any previous address in which I've resided. Believe me, the first Christmas I spent here (in 2001) I wondered where the bloody hell I'd moved to. "For heaven's sake!" thought I, imagining I was in one of the safer and more stable parts of Swindon, but silly me, I had in fact failed to notice I'd moved to Harlem. Funny how one makes these little mistakes.
Eggs and chicks and fluffy things
[Duj] Wandering around Tesco at the weekend, I spotted shelves recently filled with chocolate creme eggs and ickle easter bunny things.
Chicken update: She's gone back home to the farm :-)
Freakout
Awww, I'm glad there was a heartwarming end to the chicken's adventure, Chalky. :)
Nob and nobility
Looks like Lord Hamilton's doing the rounds, so if you'll excuse me for a moment...
Edward de Bono
Normality, I think.
Latecomers
It looks as though the ball has reached some sort of lull, so there could be an opening for something new...
Headlines?
We haven't had a Daily Mail Headlines game in a while...except it'd look a lot like Mini Cheddars, tho.
Hi Q Haiku [a poor attempt at a play on words]
[DrQ] I'm up for that.
An alternative suggestion ... as both the other MC sites each have a pair of 'poetry' games - why not a Haiku game?
Hi, Coo!
I second Chalky's idea.
Gaaah!
Unfortunately, the late arrivals won't stop coming in!
Bugger!
My recent 'upgrade' seems to have killed the win-detect code. How embarrassing...
Debugger!
Should be fixed now.
Oh...
...and in the event of winning a game, it might even be possible to start a new one again now.
Shed!!
I want a big shed, at least 12'x 9'. Does such a beast exsist? I wonder? Then I could spend my days there, drinking home brew from a chipped enamel mug and view the world through rose tinted Stadium Mk 4's...........sigh........
Shedding
[Widey] I believe such a thing does exist, although it is usually described as a "house".

Seriously, though, (and this is probably not much help) the US company Tuff Shed manufacturers a bewildering variety of sheds (which they call "storage buildings"). Some very silly styles, though... 10'x30 loafing shed, anyone?

MMMmmmmmmmmmmmm (Homer Simpson style)
Sounds good to me. I shall have to check them out. As you may have gatherd folks I have no life!!.........
Hideaways
Indeed, widey. I possess one around that size myself. It's a steel construct erected on a concrete slab, so if you are looking for a rustic appearance I cannot help. Mine is about 7½ feet high, has a door (which helps) and a single window, half of which will slide to allow air into the thing, at the opposite end (covered in spider webs and their makers - both of which, by the way, are extras.)
loafing shed
[dunx] perhaps a shed for loafing in. with a pint of loafing juice? strongbow anyone? just me then.
via Watty's ipaq
Hello we're drinking.
Greetings from (left to right) rab, pen, JLE, Norma, Pip, LOtUS, Merlyn, Lib, jim, Si, Raak and Watty. (That's enough pilgrims - Ed)
at home
HELLO EVERYBODY! *hugs and mabulations* as appropriate. Can you connect to the MCiOS Chat Server?
via the gift of the internet
hello all, hope you had a good time. I had a marvelous time in Bristol. No drinking though, although Temple Meads station is a sight to behold.
Bristol
The Bristolian kids' version of the Lord's Prayer contains the line "and lead me not into Temple Meads Station", so I'm told.
Wales
I like the bit that goes "and deliver us from Ebbw vale"...
I feel a new game coming on...
.....
Our Father, who art in heaven, Holloway be thy Name.
...
There is a version of the Lord's Prayer using tube station names already in existence, and a schoolfriend's father (who was Irish) used to recite it. But that was a long, long time ago, and now I must go to Google to have a good look. I do remember one line, which happens to be the next-but-one following st d's, come to think of it;
Thy Wimbledon.
___
Is this it?
[rab] Yes! But buses? Yeeeeughhh!! Perhaps we should re-write with proper station names!
more numbers
Many thanks to Britney Spears there has been a change at the top of Celebrity Mornington Crescent is that me!
celebrity gambling
oh nuts, I've fallen again
drug testing
ZK] I was lucky with both Britney and Greg Rusedski in buying just as the shares started to rise. It looks like this week I'll have to fight off x_sugarbabe_x and evil_edna. Which reminds me the new series of I'm a Celebrity Get Me Out of Here starts soon will the celebs be as famous last time . Which means not only has the league been going for nearly a year, so has this site, early felicitations rab, when was mc5 launched?
First post!
According to the database, my first move on this game was made at Thu Jan 16 21:07:52 2003, so it looks like we should have some sort of celebration on Friday.
Incidentally
Here's an example of those word-disassociation emails I keep receiving:
purcell newline scheme trudge coral lip partook poodle sportswear cartwheel blowup hid nabla scurry chicano twig perpendicular chariot locomotion alabaster granny machiavelli quizzical clod smooth mcclain bryan solve knives smithson fomalhaut repetitive gardenia bimetallism absentee swishy betsey centaur adenoma shoreline cobb atropos helmut pendulum poliomyelitis concourse purchasable calm macho cromwell ambiguous take autosuggestible

Who do I follow that?

Or, indeed, how?
dissing the diss
[rab] Have you invited the word disser to mail you, or is it just very eloquent spam? I feel perhaps there is no resonse needed as they appear to have put all their eggs in one basket but making one very long move. If you feel the need to make a move then I would recommend short but sweet, with a word like priapism.
Happy Verseday
MC5 is one this year,
This is a time to share.
To celebrate this great event,
I've gone and bought a tent.
Spam
[Lib] I think it's a device to try and get the emails through the spam filters. I had considered your move, but sadly I've just received dishwasher boletus elkhart skullduggery klein phonic alloy m's bicep puffery veneto art prepare coddle coriander manor corsage forswear haplology negroes denature exhibitor there'll blueberry bituminous sus hymn kaolin stalk dreary sorption oppressive harrisburg askance argive beresford dexterity embower ywca duplex stableman pickett barfly sophistry shoji put pursuer howl style shuddery curate porch.

I can't keep up!

Meanwhile a celebration game might be appropriate. Any ideas? Maybe a verse game??

randomly constituted spam
Mm. I think spammers are trying to get so much/many combinations of the English language blacklisted by Bayesian filters that they have to be reset or abandoned completely.
well versed
[rab] oh yes please. I liked Inky's sort of clerihew and I know there are several takers for a Haiku game. How's about a free-for-all 'Anni-Verse-Ary Game'? Those who are inclined [or like me, just enjoy showing off] can post a poem in whatever form/style they choose, beginning with the subject of your server's birthday and then leading ... well .. who knows where? Is that a flexible enough format for most?
Fire away...
Mary Hughes
Chalky] I must admit to being unable to do any form of poetry in a format, I wouldn't know who Miss Hews was if she came up and slapped my face, and as for a Haiku, why a game based on that chant thing the Kiwi's do before a game of rugby.
However I have enjoyed greatly resdaing the "He thought..." series over at Orange.
s/resdaing/reading
Imposters
I've found another place where MC is played on the net. Quite frankly it's a rather ruidementary and childlike version of the Great Game that we play, but each to their own. Its located at www.doctors.net.uk in the forum, but you have to log in to play and be a doctor to log in, so don't think a hyperlink would work to show you all the game.
playing doctors and nurses
We could pretend to be doctors?
hello nurse!
Ooh! Can I pretend to be a doctor? That'd be fun!
"I'm sorry, you've only got 3 days to live. Nah, just kidding! Haha!"
ha ha ha ha
Some of us nurses are blokes yah know!!!
dressing up!
*Lib hands stethescope to pen and pager to snorgle* Now you've got doctors kit you can properly pretend! [snorgle] When people ask me if they're going to die, I'm often tempted to say "Yes" then pause before adding "but we're all going to and I couldn't tell you when will be your time". But have resisted being quite so flippant as yet. [pen and snorgle] Would you like some scrubs to wear and maybe a white coat too?
stethoscopes
Lib] Can I have a stethoscope as well please ? Where are you a doctor ?
New game
In the hope that we might have a new game to play on tomorrow's all-important first anniversary, should we nominate one for killing off, or shall I be naughty and make a space for it? For the latter I'd probably need to start it myself - so if the birthday verse game has legs, what should it be called?
and while i am about it..
Lib, maybe you can help me.... Does a doctor's doctor doctor the doctor according to the doctrine of the doctor being doctored, or does the doctor's doctor doctor the doctor being doctored according to the doctoring doctor's doctrine ?
and while i am about it..
Lib, maybe you can help me.... Does a doctor's doctor doctor the doctor according to the doctrine of the doctor being doctored, or does the doctor's doctor doctor the doctor being doctored according to the doctoring doctor's doctrine ?
So good...
... you said it twice!
or maybe...
That's another bug?
Bollocks...
The simulpost protection is broken!
doctoring
[st d] Sorry, i've only got one stethescope, I threw my old one away as it hurt my ears. I've got a tourniquet that you can have, if that's good enough. Currently I'm doctoring in Stockport, but in three weeks I'll be curing the sick in Macclesfield.
Earbleed
[Lib] Couldn't you turn the volume down?
Oh...
...and I think the simulpost protection is fixed.

Don't upgrade your code, kids!

earbleed, indeed...
[rab] Twas not a volume thing (and LOUD IS GOOD regarding stethescopes) but the earpieces were really hard and hurt my little external auditory meatuses. New scope has nice squidgy earpieces so I'm no longer sore.
Stockport - what a lovely bridge there is there. Can I assume that you are pretty newly qualified then ? I used to see a girl who did her med degree at St Andrews and then when she qualified she was at Stockport for a few months.
scrubbing up
[Lib]Yes please! *Now what naughtiness can I get up to..*
[widey]I certainly hope so! In the absence of dishy doctors, naughty nurses are a necessity.
games all round
[rab] Don't kill anything. Go on, you know you want to up the game limit for the special occasion.
[snorgle]*Lib runs towords theatre and picks up a nice blue pair of scrubs for snorgle and a hat and mask too*. Top tip.... scrubs make excellent pyjamas.
twittering away . . .
I was so knackered after finishing work this evening that, after dinner, I slept for 5 hours. Now it's the wee small hours and I'm wide awake, but am I worried? No, not I ... for it's the First Birthday of MC5 ... wahay
[rab] I didn't start the Any-Versary Game because it's been rather quiet in here this week [probably because the Chat has been extensive in both MCiOS & Orange]. I can only conclude that there IS some support for the idea as no-one has objected or come up with an alternative :-).
birthday cake
Blimey - it's nearly 9.30 .. no cake, no people, no pressies?
Happy Birthday MC!
woohoo! *blows horn and prances around idiotically in surgical scrubs*
I've got the horn.
[Chalky] Sorry, late in this morning, and logistical difficulties meant no net access til now.
Oh...
... and there's a special game slot open too... one day only... snap up those bargains etc.
fanfare!
[rab] what a lovely horn player you have there. ;o)
Hurrah!
My flatmate and I are now booked into the Salvation Army hostel in downtown Reykjavik for a four night stay in April! Happy Holidays for me! I need to buy a new sleeping bag... any recommendations?
Whoo!
Happy Birthday MC5! Will the special slot be for Haiku, Daily Mail Headlines, or something else entirely?
Holidays
[pen] I've been to Iceland. Its a fantastic place, although rather expensive. I'd recommend seeing the geyzers and other geothermal attractions. Sorry, but can't really help with the sleeping bag decision.HAPPY BIRTHDAY mc5!
Sleeping Bags.
penelope, I find that there is only one choice of sleeping bag that will be tolerated here and now on this site and on this day. Fortunately they are indeed widely regarded as being amongst the finest, if not the very pinnacle, of current sleeping bag technology. Slightly expensive perhaps, but I have had one since 1990 and it is still gorgeous and warm and in great condition and I have used it a lot. I direct you all and sundry , to the benchmark of sleeping on the top of himalayan mountain excellence, ladies and gentlemen, I direct you to...........

*****crescendo drum roll, circling spotlights*****

RAB

(beat that)
Felicitations
Happy birthday MC5!
rabsnoozers
[st d] I can beat that. it's impossible. Anyone would think we had been building this coincident-rich verbal stunt for the past two weeks or so... And I'm seriously looking at the site now. Thank you :o)
rab bags
pen] all i can say is this. Buy one. You will never regret it. They are gorgeous.
rabby birthday
Quite appropriate really as it is rab we have to thank for mc5.
bob the dog
pay attention, lad!
P.
Don't want to get too self-indulgent but I really should thank:
  • Projoy - for the logo (and not suing me for ripping it off, or manipulating it at times like this).
  • Nik - for the hardware, and keeping the site live beyond the call of duty.
  • Everyone else - for playing, and for not cocking up the HTML (only two fixes required in a year's play).
Right, time to get pissed.
logolicious!
Like the logo, btw.. :-)
Duty, maybe, but decency and morality, no. Anyway, it's a good 5 months (to the day-of-month - how freaky?) until MC5's birthday at angrycake.com. Which box has just reached 43 days uptime, while I figured this post out.
Uptime
Oh, that uptime is so low only because <spoddy reason in the rollover>. Also, 43 days probably extends further back than the last time the DSL was down.
It's been a year...
Did the Earth move for you too?
MC5 -- the early days
oooh ... I've just looked back to the very first entries in this game and was pleased to see that I was there! :-)
Is anyone up for an Anniversary Chat [e-pilg MCiOS] in an hour or so [when you all return from Friday night fun]?
Spooky coincedences
Today is my birthday. However, I'm not 1.
"Mrs" Bob gave me a copy of a David Icke book that she found in an Oxfam in Bath. Apparently the Queen is a lizard. Just my sort of book :o)
S'Razhdyeistvom MC5
I thought you'd lik a nice russian greeting for this momentous occasion, so...
S'Raaaa-zhdyeistvom
S'Raaaa-zhdyeistvom
S'Razhdyeistvom MC5
S'Raaaa-zhdyeistvom! It sounds better after lots of vodka.
Completely nothing to do with anything
Are there any American players out there who are fans of Pyramid?
Oh yes, making it relevant
only if you ever want to see it again I'd write to the distributors before Tuesday because it's just been cancelled....
Pyramid
[ZK] I didn't think it went well with Donny Osmond as host. You can't beat Dick Clark at that show.
Pyramidness
I never did get to see it with Dick Clark. (too young and british) Still, if you know anyone who does like it...
black humour
One should expect it really ... the inevitable round of e-mails following a major news story, in this case, Harold Shipman's suicide. This morning I received the one relating to the plans for a film of his life [starring De Niro] called 'The Old Dear Hunter'. Tasteless, maybe, but I have to confess I chuckled. Do only we Brits have a propensity for laughter in the face of appalling events?
No, there are people with this quality born all over the planet; it just seems that in the UK the concentration is substantially higher and/or less secretive about it. Perhaps UK society is more at home with, or based around, this tendency. After all, it's not so long ago ('help! Help! I'm being oppressed!') that we had little else but each others' misery to find amusing. Oh, and that is a superb pun.
Today
Bit quiet today. And moist, I note.
E-pilg
I'm in right now -- and as I'm not at work today, I won't have to leave at 5 PM EST. :)
Downtime
There will be downtime. I don't know how much, or when. I'm having my ADSL regraded from engineer-installed to wires-only, because Nildram are currently doing so for free. I'm using the opportunity to upgrade to 1mbps (downstream only, unfortunately). Whee!
nuttin' at all...
No-one has chatted here today at all, so I thought I'd make an inconsequential start. I'm having a tricky day - three awkward letters to write to clients trying to ditch us (that's only three out of about 100, so all is not lost yet) but we can't have that. Anyway, I'm obviously doing as much as I can to put off actually having to write the letters, so already today I have reported the malfunctioning traffic lights outside the office (three and a half minutes cycles??? I ask you! I had to wait through two changes of lights this morning before getting though - that's nearly seven minutes) made coffee for everyone, stared at the screeen for ages, and posted to a few games. And soon it will be time for lunch.
clients
Surely it is nmore effective to go and see them or to call them up on the phone. Why are they trying to ditch you ?
ditchiness
Long story - to do with the perceived value of advertising v. news press, Head Offices streamlining procedures without informing branches, and the fast turnover of staff in the moto trade which means that no sooner have you got one contact briefed and primed than he changes jobs and you have to start all over again, etc etc. And We would have been to see them but for the fact that I have only recently gained the extra member of staff which has relieved me of the pressure of doing two people's jobs. There was no way I could have taken enough time out of the office to visit this lot in the last quarter of last year while I was qwriting news for the other 97 clients. They're all in the North of england and Scotland.
CrM
I agree with st d. Call them. :-)
like I said...
[CdM](I nearly swore at you there)... you don't have to sit at my desk trying just to get put through to the people I have to talk to. Let's not talk about it any more - I've had enough for today.
getting through to people
pen] you obviously aren't doing it very well if they aren't coming to the phone to talk to you. I mean ...(joke joke joke joke joke joke joke) ;o)
getting the 'joke'
I'm pleased you pointed out it was a joke, because I wouldn't have spotted it otherwise. :op
Anyway, who's for pizza?
e-pilg
I was certain that I put a move in here - and I can't find it anywhere else..have we lost anything?
Marbles?
Well that goes without saying..
anything else?
Very strange feeling - I'm meeting someone this evening and was told to be at Mornington Crescent at 8. I wanted to say something like - "Direct from Paddington? I'm not sure that's allowed under the Walsh-Hemerington Allowance of 1932, at least with an unstacked podume," but I didn't.
more warnings
Just in case anyone on Celebdaq has any shares in Arnie, the Board have issued a statement to suspend his shares from midday on Thursday, 22nd January 2004, so sell any shares in him now.

The other sensational news for D class celeb watchers is the return od I'm a Celebrity Get me Out of Here. The line up being
John Lydon
Neil Ruddock
Alex Best
Kerry McFadden
Jordan
Mike Read
Lord Brocket
Peter Andre
Jenny Bond
Diane Modahl
I will admit even at this early stage, that my shares will be on my adolescent hero from the Sex Pistols, to become King of the Jungle.

Bliss.
How ignorant I am. Of the list above I recognise only Lydon, Jordon, Read and Peter Andre (Although I haven't a clue what or who he is).
Whoops.
Hungover :) And it seems there are those who think this site is a search engine. Odd.
Ask Jeeves
What is a Fairy Hammock??
which Mike?
Which Mike Read? Is it:
*sings*
Mike Read, Mike Read
275 and 285
Mike Read, Mike Read
National Radio 1!
or is it Mike Read of 'Runaround............ NOW!
*Drags head out of Seventies TV and Medium Wave radio back to the noughties and the fact that she *still* can't get a digital TV signal*
junglers
So who's Lord Brocket?
And .. Jenny Bond? The 'royaller than the royals' lady?
Also ... notice that all the first names have either 4 or 5 letters in them [apart from Jordan who's a whole country anyway]
[pen] You should be able to get a radio signal - why not use the dosh to buy a DAB radio?
It's yet another indication of how woeful TV has become these days. Anything with the word "celebrity" in the title, you know will be dire; furthermore, you know that it will push the word "celebrity" so far that it will lose all meaning. I mean, George Best's wife? Someone who reports on the royal family? And those are the ones I have vaguely heard of. Remember "Celebrity Wife Swap" with the bloke who cheated on Who Wants To Be A Millionaire? Neither does anyone else. I was on Zig Zag when I was 10. I'd probably qualify as a "celebrity" for one of these programmes.
john Lydon
I think it is a very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very sad thing indeed that he is appearing on that show. Very sad. I mean, really, what's the point anymore ? Why go on ?
unless.....
unless of course he just tells everyone to faaark orffffff and refuses to do anything at all. That might be quite entertaining.
effing offers
[st d] I think that's the idea. And frankly I hope it happens.
BTW, I'm having a slightly better afternoon today - my boss has just stopped riding his electric scooter around the office to serve me a cup of Earl Grey and a gingernut.
damn DAB
[Chalks] I've thought about it - but Digital TV was supposed to be an economy, because you can get digital radio through the TV. It was £60 to receive Digital TV + Digital Radio through the digibox, OR £70-odd for just digital radio through a DAB set.
Run Around
[pen] Apropos of Run Around, it struck me that the Iowa caucusses which have just been held were reminiscent of Run Around.
cor cussing
One might think the plural of caucus would be 'cauca' [what a corker!] or even 'caucii'. My Chambers English Dic is non-committal by suggesting that the etymology is dubious and it might be derived from John Smith's Algonkian word Cawcawaassough, an adviser. I'm sure someone over can shed more light .... ?
surreal spam
I got some spam - normal get-rich-quick rubbish, but the following was on the end of the mail..
I have no difficulty in starting or holding my bowel movement. Applicant interrupted interview to phone her therapist for advice on how to answer specific interview questions. `With a torch.' `Very deep,' said Arthur, `you should send that in to the "Reader's Digest". They've got a page for people like you.'"
S'not fair snorgs - you always get the most exciting spam :-)
Corkers
[Chalky] That's more or less the etymology I've heard as well, from no less eminent a source than Bill Bryson (Made In America). "caucii" seems an unlikely plural since "caucus" isn't of Latin origin... All the same though, the one thing I do know is that the real trick with spelling the plural of "caucus" is knowing when to stop.
the Latin theory
[Duncussessesesess] After the Caucus Club of Boston (in the 1760s), possibly from Medieval Latin caucus, drinking vessel. [Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.]
Caucii
Simple - the plural of caucus is caucuses. That's from the lexicon I keep here in the shack - The New Penguin E.D. - etym. 'probably of Algonquian origin'. Algonquians being of east coast American peoples; ergo - N.Y slang! ... ;-)
Why is it?
At 0500 hours I get a craving for chips with lots of vinegar? I'm the wrong genda to be pregnant. Maybe if I get a sex change the cravings will be justified????
DAB radio vv TV
Pen] The value of the set-top box has to be off-set against TV licence (going up to £121 in April). So cost of TV (£70) divided by life of TV (£10 + 7 years x £121) = £875 for 7 years viewing. I personally feel that it is not worth it. I have no TV, watch DVDs on my PC and get all my news/current affairs/entertainment from The World Service, R4, R6 & R7 on my DAB radio (£70). OK, so I miss out the quality stuff like I'm a Celeb, Emmerdale, Kilroy and The Bill, but I'll live :o).
dubious maths, Bob.
I'm not convinced. You can't offset the cost of a digibox against the TV licence, you have to add them together! (I know that's a point against, but still...) And a Digibox will receive digital radio signals through the TV. Plus, I think you have to factor in the fact that I was going to blag half the money from my flatmate :o)
I also watch DVDs on my laptop, and listen to a lot of R4 but I do appreciate a bit of telly from time to time, especially some of the documentaries, history and natural history programmes, stuff like Grand Designs and some comedy. Last night, though, my TV wasn't switched on at all.
I think my main gripe is the fact that although they're advertising digital TV (in the BBC's case, 'pushing' - isn't that still advertising?) as much as they can, not everyone can get it and there's no schedule to let people know when they will be able to get it. When I asked, I was told to lobby my MP about it. I think that's the woolliest consumer advice I've ever received.
maths - never my strong point
Pen] Yer-right!
Cost of TV (average) = £70
Cost of Set-top box = £50 (£49 in Argos)
Life expectancy of both = 7 years
7 years of TV licence at £121 = £847
Total cost of TV+set-top for 7 years viewing = £967
£967 divided by two (you and flat-mate) = £483.50.
OK so I'm a pedantic bugger, but I'm also justifying my own decision not to have a TV to myself. I do not miss the natural history stuff as the best of it is available in my local library (I watch them on my pc with my 8 year-old daughter). I also miss some documentaries but I've been at the sharp-end of BBC misrepresentation so I am only too aware of how documentaries and news items are often sexed-up to present an 'angle' that will pull in the punters rather than tell the truth.
BBC misrepresentation
Does the culture of mis-representation not extend as far as the hallowed halls of Radio 4? Did anyone tell John Humphries yet? As an aside (I warn you, I think I'm pre-menstrual today - I've already had a go at Mastercard on the phone this morning) The Today programme really pisses me off - the last quarter of an hour today was five mintes of JH taking the piss out of a Pensioners' Cross-Party political party which was launched today, and the other ten minutes in 'serious' debate about Cricket. I ask you...
Being Pedantic
B. the D.] News and current affairs can't be that good on DAB because you appear not to have heard that "Killroy" has been pulled. Highly amusing article on page 5 of the new "Private Eye" on the subject of Mr K.-S. by the way.
hallowed halls of R4
pen] Right again, the mis-representation I was subject to started on R4 - a report by Trixie Rawlinson in fact. All (sensationalist) news reporting should be taken with a pinch of salt - and somehow I find it easier to be objective to news broadcast on the Radio where there are no emotive images.
Bigsmith] I shall be more attentive for vital news like this in future ;o)
Today
I really cannot stand The Today Programme. In my eyes it comprises largely onanistic playground squabbles masquerading as informed debate. The questions posed often fail to hit any substantive target and the guests frequently have the communication skills of a mop and bucket. Plus I simply cannot cope with that much talking first thing in the morning. R3's as much as I can cope with (prob. less than 10% chat, not to mention those long pauses they're famed for).
morons morons evrywhere
I have just gone over to watch a little video thing on a computer of a girl at work. It consisted of a "rifle man's view" (ie B/W with crosshairs) of some iraqis running for cover then being blown to pieces with US voice commentary on top. Now I am not commenting on the rightness or wrongness of the US soldiers doing the killing, but rather this MORON girl laughing withher nasal estuarine horse laughter at it. She seems to think it is funny ? I don't get it.
Oh god st d, I sympathise.
Beavis & Bush-head
[st dogma] Was she laughing "huh-uh-huh,huh-uh-huh-uh-huh-uh-huh-huh,huh-huh" ?
HTML Primer
[Dr Q] Bravo. Go on - don't be shy. Put the link in here aswell :-)
I'm sure rab will give it the signpost it deserves.
HTML Primer
Yes - I promised DrQ to put a link to it on the site somewhere... what I really want to do is create a 'help' page. I've got the nuts and bolts of it written, just need to construct the text. Maybe this'll get done at the weekend.
Did I forget to x-post?
Well, here it is, then. The MC Basic HTML Primer.
Q-text
We can expect some
  • Useful
  • Interesting
  • Informative
  • Exciting and
  • Bizarre
posts from now on then.
I DON'T BELIEVE IT
There are people here who are even more grumpy than me, which is nice. Bob the Dog has got the right idea. TV is nearly all crap. I look at the Radio Times and think "thank God for the radio - esp. R4". Jazz FM and R3 have their moments, too. But, except for the football, which is good, R5 is utterly dire. It's like a perpetual down-market You and Yours. Hasn't Susan Bookbinder got a horrible harsh voice, compared with the velvet tones of Charlotte Green and the luscious Corrie Corfield?
Funnily enough, I used to have a job which consisted of trying to think of new TV programmes (in the "light factual" category, and I think we all know what that means). It wasn't quite as soul-destroying as you might think, but let's just say it wasn't really me. I've never in my life listened to the radio apart from a few very rare occasions so I have no idea what the Today programme or any others are like...
Mumbles into half-drunk cold coffee...
Rosie] I'm not grumpy! Its Bob the dog by the way, never Bob the Dog.
:o) - I like this!
Best stop here...
puzzled
[Bob] Who's the face on the crab?
Chalky] Ah, the crab of ineffable wisdom! I think it is David Icke. I got him from here. The following is his nemesis..
very puzzled
As I can't see Bob's marquees on my browser, the foregoing makes very little sense indeed.
[Rosie] Why listen to R5 if you detest it so much? I formed the same impression of it when it started, and I haven't listened to it since.
Radio 5
I do listen to it - but mainly quite late at night, when it's better. I listen to it in the mornings too, but wish they didn't have Nicky Campbell on then - he really is terrible at interviews!
[rab] Use a different browser then! Btd's animations are great!
A Null Set If Ever I Heard Of One
Quality and TV? Ha!

It's a ridiculous cliché to say that British telly is the best in the world, but there's also some truth in it. Try watching US telly sometime - yes, there are good programmes on (after all, many of them are shown on British telly too) but the amount of utter irredeemable tripe is enormous and far outweighs the good stuff (at least on terrestrial). One very good reason that there is no licence fee in the States is that nothing being put out on the terrestrial networks is worth it.

We have a TV in order to watch Star Trek. That's about it.

HTML
To recap:
  1. I created this for no reason
  2. ...other than to see how it looks
  3. ...and I'm impressed!
This and that
(Raak) Your logic is impeccable, but possibly does not address the practicalities. The footy on R5 is good because they never pretend a poor match is good. I have even heard Michael Green say "this is dreadful". So you get the truth, more or less. So the radio gets left on R5 sometimes and I turn it on and get all this crap I mentioned. The same can happen in the car. (Bob the lower case dog) Dreadful sorry - will be more careful in the future. Like your crabs, but could Thrax and I please have some of those F****** LOBSTERS.
it's all rather good
I feel I must make a stand for Blode.
More Blode
Much more Blode and other stuff here. Some of it is quite rude. My favorites are Big Pants Treking and The Beatles.
Even more
Oh yeah, and We Like the Moon and Mark Larma, Gerbil Farmer. My all-time favorite flash animation is this one.
Hmm, try again
My all-time favorite flash animation is this one.
Nudge
*nudges Btd in the direction of the 'Preview' button*
... interruptin' Flashing Bob
[Bob] hauling you back ... I don't think that IS David Icke smiling on the crab. I thought he'd been swallowed by the 'globe of destruction' that is the bizarre workings of his mind, but it seems not. He's on the telly as I type.
...again
I'm working at home today. Well, I say that. I'm really trying to figure out a sign-writing [by hand not machine] job for my local pub, whilst keeping a close eye on the short-term weather forecast [snow on Monday]. OK - in reality I'm faffing around on here with the ITV1 in the background. It's ever so cosy :-) OMG - D Icke is completely barking ...
Icke it is in the real world
David Icke used to be a harmless nutter, but now seems to be spouting dangerous anti-semitic messages. He believes that we are governed by reptiles from space under the title of the 'Babylonian Brotherhood'. He believes that the death of Pricess Diana was a sacrifice to the gods (by the Windsors, Spencers and Al-Fayeds) and that presedent Bush (amongst others) attendeds ritual baby eating sacrifices. We'll he is possibly right there. (To any American air-port officials who may wish to arrest me, that was a J O K E ok?). He hates the Freemasons who have this to say about him.
sequal No 5
rab] following Nina posting over on Orange, would you be willing to host the film review forum and putting Anni-Verse-Ary Game to bed?
Etching
[Inkspot] I have etched my response into an Orange.

Mind you, the Verse game has not really caught on... so its replacement with, erm, something would probably be A Good Thing.

Replacements
[rab] We haven't had Mornington Dictionary for a while (that is, definitions for made up words rather than new definitions for existing words). Mind you, that's usually hosted at MCiOS...
Stupid Bugger
Of course, in offering that suggestion I was neglecting to notice that the 2002 Mornington Dictionary game is, er, still going on MCiOS.

Forget I mentioned that.

Hyakugojyuuichi!!
I, er, don't get it.
More white plastic bags
rab] strange that about the verse game not catching on perhaps people prefer to 'add-a-line' to make it more of a participation game, rather than the whole verse as set out. There we go live and learn.
I know story games have only a limited base of followers, but again see if it floats, Short Reverse Stories, each about 5-15 moves of approx 100ish words, if it sinks ... it gets killed off and gets replaced.

Meanwhile over at Daq Towers, the hamsters have been busy, I had been expecting x_sugarbabe_x, at the top, but keeping it in the family its Chalky as No1 over at Celebtity Mornington Crescent, and will DrQu+xum be ready to take over next week?

Just registering my annoyance - the Verse Game has been ditched after only a week! All this to make way for a load of film chat, eh? Which just happens to occur in MCiOS, eh? [and is a very fine game - believe me, I'm not knocking it] So - if commenting on some other person's 'work' takes precedence over our own poetic/literary endeavours then so be it. I'd obviously read it wrong.
Anniversary, Birthday, Cessation
I thought, Chalky, that it was only meant as a temporary tribute to the first birthday of the site. Maybe I misinterpreted something along the way. No, I have nothing against a verse game of some sort so please do not take that comment the wrong way.
Is there some way we could meet in the middle on a new verse game? I like the participatory nature - it's fun to watch something twist away - but maybe something where it isn't limited to one line, and also maybe not limited to one particular verse form. Whoever starts declares a form - either specifically (e.g., Petrarchan Sonnet) or by establishing a rhyme and metre scheme, and puts out as much as they feel like. That way, anyone feeling truly inspired can provide a complete chunk for us, and the dullards among us can trip over 5 feet of iambic pentameter.
Invite to everyone....
To visit my bands home page,sign the guest book and listen to the free tunes! http://www.papalazarus.com Have a funky day!
You're my wife now...
widey] Happy boppy stuff! Did the name come before or after the League of Gents?
... ooh
Sorry I came over all stroppy-like last night with my little rant. Of course, it IS possible to carry on playing the Any Verse Game 'below the line'. Simple solutions like that don't really register after a skinful :-).
Shape-changing reptiloids
[Bob the Dog] Interesting stuff about Icke, although as I understand it, the charge of anti-semitism seems to be unfair - I believe that what happened is that people heard him ranting about alien lizards running the world and thought it was his offensive way of referring to Jews, when in fact he really did mean alien lizards and wasn't talking about Jews at all. All the same, it seems very odd to me that everyone's response to David Icke is that he is a weird nutter who is beneath contempt, rather than that he is clearly mentally ill and needs help. This is what happens when you play sport, you know.
Correction
I meant, of course, "Bob the dog", with a firmly lower-case noun there.
Oi Stop thief...........Papalazarus
we nicked it from the LOG but it happens to be Duffers middle name!!!!
I wanna ride my Icke
Breadmaster] I think one of the things that fascinates me about DI is that he has been like this for so long. That is not to say that people with mental illnesses only have it for a short period, rather that he is being taken so seriously and that no-one has managed to get him any real help.
[Btd] Perhaps he's actually the front man for the real conspiracy, who maintain him in public view to spout lunatic theories as a camouflage and to draw likely recruits. Their agents go covertly to his meetings, get into conversation with other people there, and when they suss a likely prospect, tell him that of course Icke's crazy, how the world really works is such and such, and do they want in?
Gathering more net space to self
I'm sure I've seen most of the stuff listed above before (Moon song, crab whotsit etc), the total randomness of the Internet is so fantastic, it's unbelievable. Things like sqa.com really underline the total iognorance of some people (8-/). The Google directory has some truly laughable links. *sigh*
User names
For some time I have been pondering over the use of long names on MC sites and their attempt to dominate the screen, disrupt the eye and generally just be a bloody nuisance. Now I know. See here and scan down the list of the territory tyrants. ... :-)
Grrrr!
Link faulty: Try this one. ... ;-)
Oi, Googolplex
Much as I admire, revere, and love the name which nature or some other kindly creature has bestowed on you, is there any chance you could change it to a shortened version or acronym? What with it stretching the browser and all....
Name Controversy
Wow - this is the biggest naming controversy since The Two Jonathans! :)
It was I!
[Dujon] That Googolplex the Amazing Balancing Goat from Luxembourg and I are one and the same: I have e-mailed the M.E. in the past and managed to get both myself, and a friend (Elmon the King Slug of Bangladesh) portions of the world. Ask her, if you don't believe me. Oh, and have you seen the quotes page? [ZK] Thank you, you are a lovely grovvely indidvidual: are you related to Chalky? ;-) I loathe it when people type my name as an acronym. If you must shorten it, make me "Googolplex" as above.
My name is too long too
Welcome Googolplex, I like your full name. I have often wanted to shorten my own for the sake of easy typing, but is Btd funny?
We're on at the same time!!!!!!! What do I do?
[Bob the dog] I don't know whether you're being sarcy or complimentary! I'm the only other person I know who has that effect on people (although, not on the net). Now I'm so confused! Btd could be funny; it depends what you make of it.
The written word...
Googolplex the Amazing Balancing Goat from Luxembourg] - [sorry I got it wrong first time] Ah ha!
Help!
A help page has been added, and it contains a link to DrQ's reference. If anyone has any improvements to the text, let me have them. The same goes for the various buttons on these pages too.
[Bob the dog] No, yours isn't.
[GtABGfL] Particularly on this site, where the font is bigger than MCiOS, it's a teensy bit annoying. And no, I'm not related to Chalky or ZK or Dujon...
Info page
[rab] Much obliged for the link . . . and you forgot BPMCF ;)
Oh, noooo....
[Bob the dog] Stop with the mind games!!!!
Bob the dog
I've been meaning to ask - why don't you have dog as Dog? Is it some grand mystery of the universe? Or is there a simpler explanation?
Deepdarkmysterysofthemind
ZK] When I first started on !York I used my real name - a very odd and silly thing to do, especially as I have an memorable name and at that time was in a high profile job. So, after an announcement of my intentions, I changed my on-line identity. After a short trip as Roobiroo, I became Bob the dog, named after my brothers dog, Bob. My brother has a dog, not a Dog - and as I am really playing on his behalf, I am very careful not to abuse his very well-earned doggy title.
Googolplex the Amazing Balancing Goat from Luxembourg] I am not related to Chalky, ZK, Dujon or Toby either. If that helps.
high-profile job
[Btd] According to Google, you are the Head of the CIA's clandestine service and Deputy Director for Operations. Or is farming more in your line?
It's all relative
And there I was under the impression that I was related to all of you...now, I'm just confused!
Relations?
[ZK] You must be from West Virginia! ;)
name calling
[GtABGfL] That's the second [or maybe third] time you've accused me of grovelling. I was being polite when I kindly requested you shortened your name for the Doubles Game in MCiOS, simply because the truncated nature and content of the entries in that game makes for ease of reading. Scanning down the page, which is part of the fun, becomes impossible if diverted by the swivel-eye effect of your long name. As you have now decided to expand your activities into Orange MC and here, I shouldn't be surprised if you get further polite requests to 'wind yer neck in' ....
monicker inflation
Wind yer neck in, Goo-Boy. It's a visual irritant.
Nom de ploooooooome
Indeed. Recall that my handle is an abbreviation as well. It's short for DrQuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
uuuuuuuuuuuuuuu....

[to be continued]
Necks
[Chalky] Sorry if I offended you, i tend to get stuck on ideas from time to time, but it's a fair enough comment. In games like that, I may well relinquish my title and stick with my name: is that fair? [Rosie] Dearie, your sentence is so irritating, it should've arrived in a yellow bottle with "Harmful Irritant" on an orange background with a huge black cross on it. Don't call me "Goo-Boy" and I'll start making changes. *sob*
Goat-boy
Is that better? Stop being so obsessive, or I'll get the whip out!
Pin the tail on the donkey
Projoy] Ooo arr!
Aesthetics
In the interests of aesthetics, excessively long monikers are auto-truncated on the front page. [DrQ] grr... formatting...
Googolplex the amazing balancing goat from luxembourg
AT first I thought that our ruminant luxembourgeois friend's name was somewhat irritating in it's length. Now however I like it and would be most upset and sad if she (for I believe that the "goat-boy" is indeed a she - I remember these details) were to revert to a simple Googolplex (or Euro Goat or whatever). I do have a question though - are you in Luxembourg now ? Indeed are you even actually from luxembourg ?
Wonders why he bothers.
Effiminancy
[st dogmael of the house of Cunedda, the son of Ithel ab Ceredig ab Cunedda Wledig] *Ah bliss*. I'll come back to that. [snorgle] You are a darling, but that kind of aggressive flirting, isn't for me. [st dogmael of the house of Cunedda, the son of Ithel ab Ceredig ab Cunedda Wledig] Check Orange MC for a little evidence.
St Dogmael could of course shorten himself to Toel, the name by which he is known in some parts of Brittany.
I've been amazed by some of the gender revelations of recent weeks. !York used to have a "who's who" page, didn't it? We should reinstate such a thing.
yeah yeah, shoot me down now...
I too find that long names, when used constantly, are very annoying, and would like it if people could stop using them. Not that you will, as evidenced above. Games end up cluttered and difficult to scan, which puts me off playing them - it's too much effort to avoid the bandstanding (not that anyone would've noticed any absence, but so be it).

I thought Googolgoat was a good alterative moniker (as seen on MCiOS), which keeps the essence of the name while avoiding initials. Oh well, I'll shut up now.

And I apologise if I offended anyone, but I'm having a rotten couple of months. *shuts up properly, now*
...a continuation...
...uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu....

[flerdle] Keep talking, please!
goatiness or otherwise
re: goatboy - as I typed it I had a sneaking suspicion, but I figured what the hell! I bet she's not a real goat, either.. [st dogmael of the house of Cunedda, the son of Ithel ab Ceredig ab Cunedda Wledig]*cracks whip*
Grrr...
Let's put this in words of one syllable shall we: long strings of text with no spaces fuck up the formatting. Don't do it.
Who's got my mascara?
What evidence is there that suggests I'm a woman? [snorgle] You absolute beast you!
sex (either or)
I dunno. I blame dogmael. *thhppppptttt* So, are you a goat or not?
January blues
Cheer up flerdle! Do you want to hear about my bad day? My car knows that I have to be in Cumbria tomorrow. It also knows that I'm running low on ££ as I have not been paid since December. My car hates me. So over the weekend it decided to have a tantrum. I tried everything to fix it, but it was a big expensive alternator problem I couldn't do anything about. So, having wasted most of my weekend I got up extra early to drop my car at a garage and arranged with 'notMrs' the dog to borrow her car for the trip to Cumbria. We then discover that her car won't start either. What is worse, as she steered it back into our parking space, the open door jammed into a neighbours wing and badly dented it. The neighbours car is a brand new Audi and the neighbour has just been round to tell us that repairs will cost £500. Of course insurance will cover it but we loose our no claim bonus and have to pay the first £100 repair. Plus our premiums will go up. Add a two-year-old with a raging cold and an eight-year-old coping with loss of hamster, liberally sprinkle with my own grotty mood because I’m on a diet and you have a recipe for glumness. Plus the weather forcast for Cumbria is very scary. Flerdle, you are not alone!
Poised Goatliness
Thanks for compromise [ref. Doubles Game :-)] and for the record, I couldn't give a flying fart whether you're male/female/hermaphrodite/single cell amoebic/whatever - so long as your postings are witty/clever/funny/educational/thought-provoking/etc. thereby compelling me to read them when I sign in and see the name on the index pages. I'm a huge fan of some of the regular posters in this elite community - but I wouldn't dream of naming names .....

*sympathy hugs* for flerdle, rab and Bob [whose simulpost I've just seen]

insurance
No, your NEIGHBOUR has to pay the excess and then he claims it back through his insurance, from your insurance! Don't let him tell you otherwise! Unless you mean your own excess, of course - but I didn't get the impression that you damaged your car that badly..
Things that go bump
Nah - 'notMrs' the dogs car is fine. So the neighbour who so kindly came round to tell us it'd be £500 has to pay excess does he? Thanks snorgs.
The good news is
Yey! I've lost 5lbs!
The Incredible Lightness of dogs
[Bob] I say, well done! I went on a wine diet over the weekend and lost three days.
Going spare?
Has there been any recent discussion about what to do with the vacant plot? I'd love to see a revival of "Ye Crescent Morningtowne" from Orange a couple of years ago.
all sorts
re:Goatsex] I am sure that it was admitted by the goat at some time recently, when a link was posted to a site with manga cartoons or some such. Maybe that was just a strange dream ?
Bob] Sounds messy. Did the wee kiddo have a birthday ? Many happy returns from me and tell her I said to get over the hamster and move on. Tell her to buy a Giant Tortoise next as they live longer and she will in all likelihood lose interest in it long before it shuffles off it's mortal coil. ;o0
Actually, I'm a Great Crested Grebe
[Chalky] Hmmm, that list sort of limits my potential posts to the "etc" range. [son of Ithel ab Ceredig ab Cunedda] You pipped me to the post! And no, my gender is not revealed at Hunter's Glade.
Hunters Glade
GP] No - but I am sure I remember you mentioning your gender when you posted that link.....
memory not that good
though as I cant for the life of me remember WHERE you did post that, I can't go back and check....
e-pilg tonight?
I might be around after 9 pm ... any ideas for a theme?
theme?
Bread and Circuses!
hugs etc.
[rab] I noticed the auto-truncating on the front page, darling - thank you.
[Bob the dog] Well done, you. That's the kind of weekend that would put five pounds in beer calories on me....
[flerdle] sorry it's not getting better. *hugs* [pen] What does that mean?
No, my gender isn't there either. Where did I leave it?
[st dogmael] It was "Read any good books lately?"
Abbr.
[rab] The name doesn't abbreviate on the non-CSS page...not like that matters, really.
Bob the dog - done to excess
Hah! Your stupid neighbour thought he'd save money on his insurance by upping his excess, and now he's trying to get you to pay it! Trust me, ring your insurer and they'll confirm it. (so will your neighbour's insurance company). I used to get that all the time in my last job - people thought it was unfair(once they had a claim, not before when it was cheaper, oh no!)that they had to pay money when the accident wasn't their fault. But it is possible to get car insurance with nil excess, just more expensive. Your neighbour will have to cough up the dosh himself and wait till his insurance company can claim it back for him. Tough donuts to the cheapskate!
Abbr
[DrQ] Yeah, the ugliness is less extreme there.
Not Tu+xuj, though that's nice DrQ :)
Cor, you fall asleep for a week, and when the prince (well, I'd rather a princess, but I was asleep at the time) wakes you up your mile behind the times. Reading back three pages worth of conversation was great fun though!
[Btd] A blast of positive karma to you, or whatever equivalent you'd prefer. Maybe an Indian takeaway.
Juggles
Btw there's some acrobatics in the chat room just now.
jiggling
well there was, at any rate.
Bread and Circuses
[Chalky] Someone famous said it - it's the formula to keep the populace happy, I think. I'm sure Google can help.
As luck would have it...
Hoorah for my degree! (er, the one I'm presumably going to have in 3 years' time) That was Juvenal, in his satire #10...

"A body that used to confer commands, legions, rods and everything else, has now narrowed its scope, and is eager and anxious for two things only: bread and races."

Circenses being the latin that can refer to a race or a circus (because of the arena, which was a circuit). Of course.
Oh yeah...should you so wish
"nam qui dabat olim imperium, fasces, legiones, omnia, nunc se continet atque duas tantum res anxius optat, panem et circenses."
(GtAMGfL) I love "Dearie". If only you knew.
Bread and Circi
[pen, Chalky] It was Julius Caesar, wunnit?
bread and circi
*coughs loudly*
Its sunny down here...
Apologies for sharp exit on epilg last night, something went wrong with my connection. Off to snowy Cumbria soon. I may be some time..
circuts!
It wasn't just you, Bob. It fell over, but got back up later! Nice act, though.
Big topple
Perhaps my act was the show stopper. That’s the last time I do the canine cannonball!
Juvenile humour
I can't think of Juvenal without recalling the programme that was on TV about him a few years ago. It consisted primarily of Stephen Fry wandering the crowded streets of London in a toga, scowling at everything. Personally I think that anything that brings that about has to be a good thing.
insurance excess
snorg] I think you are being rather unfair on bob's neighbour. Most people (I imagine) envisage car insurance as covering them for accidents with people they do not know and for large amounts of money. Now Bob is in the unfortunate position of having just had his car cause damage to his next door neighbour's car in an incident that seems to be 100% the fault of !mrs. bob. Admittedly the "man from Audi" coming and knocking on their door does not endear me to the neighbour, but but but the fact remains that bob has to live next door to these people. We do not know what bob's relationship is with them(good/bad/nonexistent) or what kind of people they are. Certainly though I think it is unfair to criticise them for trying to save money on their car-insurance. I would advise bob to simply give them his insurance details and apologise profusely maybe even give them some wine etc. If they ask for any excess he should say that their insurance companies will deal with it - after all that is what they are there for. What I would envisage happening is that bob's insurance company will pay the claim, and that the excess will actually apply to bob - because the neighbour is actually not using his insurance - other than to deal with bob's insurance company. Hopefully this will all resolve very amicably as I am sure it will and the little two year old will get over her cold and the weather will clear up and flerdle will wake up full of hope joy and love and the eight-year old will go on to be elected RULER OF THE WORLD and a new regime of LOVE and KINDNESS will prevail and humanity will evolve to a new level of peace and understanding and this will all be looked back upon as a fond memory in a happy and distant past.
It's a "B" isn't it?
[Rosie] What is the "M" for?
the bright side of life
[st sunnydog] I'll have a glass of whatever you're drinking :-)
Googolsex (The Amazing Balletic Ghost)
GS] having had a look back you appear to have made no mention there at all. Perhaps I just looked at the quotes page and saw predominately female contributions - I think I assumed you to be Anne ? No matter. You shall remain as ambiguous as you desire. Personally I am actually not a Welsh Monk at all, but rather a Seahorse, with no particular amazing qualities (for a sea horse anyway), from Tasmania. I do have a very pretty tail though.
what I am drinking
chalky] right now, Boots® Effervescent Vitamin C, from my "HITACHI Scientific Instruments" Mug.
what I am drinking
I am drinking a Lovely Cup of Coffee (TM) made by our Administrator Christine (very strong with a lot of milk) and a plastic cup of water with which I am necking Tesco's own label ibuprofen due to having the raging monthlies, damn them. It's at this point in the month when being pregnant would seem to be an attractive alternative. Although the end product isn't...
what I am drinking
Water from a bottle, via Lidl, from Yorkshire. Great slimming drink.
Christine, strong w lots of milk.
pen] Has she just given birth ? Does she work out ?
PJ] From what I remember of you, you ain't got no need for slimmin' drinks me lad.
Stressed!
Take some fying lessons from this guy find a chair and have a cuppa.
beefy mutha
[st d] *snigger*
Drinking
I'm drinking nothing but water. I'm something of an obsessive water-drinker, and unable to do anything without a mug of water next to me. This can be inconvenient at times.
[penelope] I've always pointed out that pregnancy may get you out of the monthlies for nine months, but you don't really escape them as they are essentially all saved up to have in one big go at the end. This observation has helped greatly in my policy of never allowing my chromosomes to get anywhere near the next generation.
M
(Googolp) M stands for typo, as ever. :-)
Drinking
A substance almost but not quite entirely unlike coffee from the uni cafeteria.
Liquidity
I'm with the Loafmeister on this one - I drink about 3 litres of water a day, although I do like a little fizziness around lunchtime, just to break things up. I have one fruit tea in the morning (usually Pink Grapefruit), and then it's water all the way. In fact I'm off to refill now. The reason for this is tied up with the absence of caffeine from my diet - almost two years now - and the ready availability of water from the coolers. Also, I happen to like the tiling in the Gents, which I get to study several times a day...
glug glug glug
Sing hoorah for orange juice! :)
Yes, OJ. Water with vitamins.
Duck me
I've just received an email inviting me to give a talk at a specialised meeting in April... am slightly dumbfounded...
well you know what the medical profs say ... if your 'water' isn't clear then you're not drinking enough water ...

[rab] a 'specialised' meeting ??

mountain airing
Chalky] Have you read one of rab's papers on liquid something or other doing some weird scientific whatsit. It's more specialised than the 'The Furcation Game', it would need an Horizon mini-series.
Specialism
I would cite the title of the meeting, but then I would fear that google might rate this page higher than the official one, with my cover then blown.
Drink?
*checks mini-fridge under desk* Dr Pepper, Cherry Coke, Vanilla Coke, Mountain Dew, Code Red, Pepsi, Cherry Pepsi, Cherry 7UP, Schweppes Ginger Ale. ALL YOUR POP ARE BELONG TO US
dr q's pops
DR Q] You really do work in I.T don't you ?
Drenk!
Lemsips, cos of this cold. Grrr.
Fluid Dynamics
Too much coffee, but quite a lot of water too. Indeed, time to refill now. I hope I don't have to make a fresh pot...

Unfortunately when we moved offices we lost free pop privileges, and the coffee here is worse. Hmmph.

Dihydrogen Monoxide
I like lots of water too - good for the skin. Oh, and st d - wasn't that what I said? *is mildly confused now*
for a change...food
I'm currently eating some dairy-free ice cream, which is nice. Tastes a bit like frozen angel delight.
The campus is surprisingly lacking in vending machines, although there are plenty of overpriced shops for your trouble. No water coolers though - i may campaign to have one installed. Cos I don't drink caffeinated or fizzy stuff if I can help it I tend to get pretty thirsty during the day...sing hooray for Evian. however, water fountains are free....
Biscuits
[Rosie] So it does. :-P. My Mum's gone bake crazy: biscuits and cake everywhere!
Fluid intake
I'm amazed by the stuff I read here. Are you all diabetic, or something? I usually have a couple of pints of beer at some pub or other, but if I don't, then no problem, I just do less wee-wee, as one does, or doesn't. Bottled water, I think, is one of the biggest con tricks ever played. Why pay 70p a litre when a virtually identical product comes out of the tap at 44p a ton? It's WATER, for fuck's sake. I find it simultaneously hilarious and depressing how easy it is to relieve people of their money.
In all fairness, yes. But you should taste the tapwater where I live. Ugh.
Water water everywhere
Yup, I drink a fair bit of that stuff - normally take a litre or two to bed with me (no rude comments, please) and knock off about a litre each night. This, of course, is in the fond hope that it will swill out the liver/kidney/waterworks. ... :-(
H2O
A LITRE, Duj? That's nearly 2 pints. In bed?? I'd be up every 5 minutes, if you see what I mean, with that. (ZK) When I was working I used to occasionally take a swig of distilled water, just for the fun of it. It was bland and boring, not a patch on tap water, which in these parts is hard as nails and is basically a dilute chlorinated solution of calcium bicarbonate. Rather good stuff, and of course virtually free.
Water, Water Everywhere
[Rosie] I drink tap water, and lots of it. Fortunately, Portland has rather nice water. My reasons are that I just feel better if I drink lots of fluids, and in particular I run more comfortably.
Indeedy
[Rosie] Yes, I do (drink water). No I don't (get up every five minutes). I try my best to drink as much water as I do wine. Well I'm buggered if I'm going to drink the stuff with the wine. ;-)
weather check
OK - so I know it's very British to bang on about the weather BUT - after all the predictions of snow, arctic blasts, etc., it's blooming gorgeous today here in the mid-south.
chequered weather
Here in the outer London 'burbs (last road before the M25), we had enough snow and sunshine this morning to illuminate the undersides of seagulls and bring a brilliance and light to the landscape that we haven't seen since October. But as I write.... it's still freezing and SNOWING!!!!
Snow snow snow
chalky] London too is gloriously sunny with nice fluffy clouds. It snowed here (well Fulham and Clapham that I know of) last night though - though not for very long.
chalky] not really - or at least I didn't think so.
Arctic Blast
We had a good dump whilst sitting in the pub last night - nice to leave footprints in virgin snow on the way home. Now it's just degenerated into "wintry showers" so I think the slush stage is imminent.
Having a good dump
(rab) Do they put fast-acting laxatives in the beer in your local, then? :-)
precipitation
I walked to Uni in a blizzard today. Yay!!! :)
weather or not
It's been a lovely sunny day in Cardiff, too. A bit nippy, but no arctic blasts so far!
sorry about this
Html is fun!!
Snow is twee: and tweeness is EVIL!!!
Especially when someone you don't like is trying to telll you they fancy you.
I was amazed this evening to look out of the window and see a blizzard - with thunder and lightning! Never seen such a thing before. Of course, it is all melting now, already. There's nothing more depressing than melting snow.
How about
melting snow and a dead puppy?
Puppies are twee, and I hate dogs
cf above
Snow Joke
We've just had a teleconference with one of the presenters wittering on about how cold and snowy it is in New York. Of course, we were sitting there thinking "Woo. We had two weeks of snow and freezing temperatures in Portland and you didn't hear us complaining." Mind you, that could have been because a lot of us weren't in the office.

[Rosie] It was probably Tetleys he was drinking.

And they called it Puppy Love...
[snorgle] Thank you for making me laugh out loud - I needed that!
Snow? Ye' dun'no th' me'nin' of snow!
My driveway pile stands at 51/2 feet and growing.
[BM] We had that during The Blizzard of '93. Comedian Lewis Black once said of that phenomenon: "They don't even write about that in The Bible! And I'd imagine that if a prophet had seen it (after he wiped the poop out of his pants) he would've told us about it!"
Snow...
It's not much, I'm sure, but it means a lot to us. Building a smow-hamster on top of a car and slecging down the road was fun though!
whether the weather be fine, or whether the weather be not...
We were having a snowball fight and decided to venture out of our courtyard to find more people. There was a bunch of boys having a fight down the hill and we saw something they were obviously using as a sledge, so we asked them if we could have a go. They said, "Yeah, but be careful - it's the door off our fridge!"
I can't imagine how they ever planned on getting it back on...
exciting weather
[B'master] We had that here - in the very 10 minutes that I chose to walk from my house to the pub. Blizzard AND thunder & lightning - Oh, how we laughed!
[Googol] You're beginning to be a complete pain in the arse. If you don't like the chat, just don't join in.
Puzzled
[BM and Chalkywhip] That is quite amazing! I cannot recollect ever having heard of such an odd combination, although undoubtedly it happens (not that I'm all that well versed in meteorology.) It must have been a weird experience.
Water water water
We've had three tropical downpours and some light drizzle in the last few days. Some lovely rain, flooding, lighting, the works. Another due for this afternoon, wheee! The rest of the days have been bright, sunny, stinking hot and muggy.
Oh, and I'm still here for at least another week. Or two. Or more. This is getting ridiculous.
Queensland catches up with the rest of the world... ;-)
Hello, flerdle, still stuck? You must be going bananas. (sorry!) Good to see that the Sunshine State has finally matched the rest of the country and installed lighting - it's about time. ... just stirring!
I wonder whether or not you saw the map produced (I think) by the met. bureau showing the lightning strikes over a 24-hour period during that series of storms which ran over us both? For those who have not, it showed a time-line of strikes - they didn't expand, so I'm not sure if these are only the groundstrikes or cloud to cloud stuff as well. There was a number of 48,000 odd quoted! Regrettably my little patch of dirt received only a few millimetres of precipitation although we did have lots and lots of the light effects and noise.
Snow
(Breadmaster) Anything more depressing than melting snow? Yep. Non-melting snow. Couldn't get to where I wanted tonight because of it. Snow and thunder is rare - I've only seen it 3 times, Jan 1966, April some time in the 80's, and now. Trust me - I'm an ex-meteorologist, don't drink, don't smoke, make all my own frocks . . .
Strangely quiet
School, that is. Having fought my way here through the 5 mm of snow, I find I'm alone in the place... one other teacher, and not a sign of a snowball-throwing student... Good thing we don't have real snow here!
torrential snow
Last night was brilliant, except for driving down the M4 in a blizzard, with lightining. It snowed for no more than 20-30 minutes but that was enough for the boys. When I arrived home they were at the window, all three were excited broad grins on their faces. So in the dark is was snowball fights and snowman building, wonderful fun.
Pah
4 flippin' hours to get home (25 miles) in about an inch of snow last night. This may come across as somewhat curmugeonly, but:
If you know (because it's been trailed on the news for about a week) that there's snow on the way, put some petrol in your car.
If you don't like driving in the snow, don't do it. People will give you lifts, there are trains and buses and so on; don't hold the rest of us up by trundling around at 5mph.
If you're sliding, stop braking!
When you see a hill, don't stop. Don't speed up. Don't change gear, revving furiously all the while. If you can't get going again in 1st, stop making ice patches; try 2nd.
Honestly, we must be the most pathetic country in the world when it comes to dealing with a little bit of snow. (Of course, when I say 'we', I mean the southern English. Those of us who grew up in places where it snows quite regularly in the winter were the ones overtaking everyone else this morning - it was wet, not frozen, you... *spontaneously combusts*
And you try telling that to the kids of today...
I had to drive from Cumbria to Stratford-upon-Avon yesterday. Via Birmingham. Set off 4pm. Home at 11.00pm. I managed to avoid the B'ham gridlock, although I was delayed for a couple of hours on the M5. In the circumstances, I think I was lucky. But how I wish I'd seen the lighting storm!

And the poor chickens! They hate the snow and have remained tuck-tucked up in their hen-cot. I gave them extra portions of porridge this morning.
Ah, let's not get into the old "is snow a good thing or not?" debate, which as far as I can see generally splits neatly along the line that divides drivers from non-drivers. As a non-driving aesthetic type I naturally love snow and get very miserable when it goes. And I couldn't appreciate it last night for the 20 minutes that it existed because of a flatmate-related crisis (as usual). One day I shall live all alone in some kind of Arctic permafrost country. With a reliable Internet connection.
waaaaant
*sobs quietly at the thought*
36°C here today, and the storm blew out to sea before it could do anything interesting.
annoying flatmates
[BM]Are all your flatmates attention-seekers? You seem to have a lot of trouble with them.
I do, don't I? Ghastly stuff. They're not attention-seekers though, honest. This one suffers from depression and rather unwisely allowed herself to run out of medication last week, with predictably awful results. Add to this the remarkably unhelpful support for mental health in this country - I took her to A&E (she was really in a bad way) on, I think Friday night, but they were unable to give her anything and insisted that she see somebody on Monday. Quite what she was meant to do for the weekend, on a downer from lithium cold-turkey, was not made clear. In other news, my other flatmate is surviving at the moment, despite being in the throes of an increasingly nasty court case with a certain major organisation currently in the news for its arrogance and intransigence. My other flatmates are moving out and I have to find replacements for them. It's at times like this that I'm glad I work nights sometimes.
Let it snow
[Bread] Not guilty, m'lud. I like snow. I like to look at it. I like to go out in it (sometimes in my slippers); I've even once been out in it wearing less than my slippers. I like watching it fall, and I like driving in it - it's peaceful, and (if you're in a country where they know about driving in the snow) there's a general feeling of "We're all in this together, isn't it fun?" I just don't like driving in it in the Home Counties. I'm currently overhearing a conversation about last night, in which one of my colleagues, who clearly has an automatic car, is relaying how she kept phoning her husband every ten minutes because she was stuck in a snowdrift or halfway up a hill, and she didn't know what all those 'other gears' might do. *sigh*
Taking exception to disprove the rule
I, too, buck your trend, Bm, but from the other angle, being a snow-hating pedestrian. This makes just as much sense as hating it from behind the steering wheel, if not more: I went skating several times this morning quite unintentionally. But my views on the Englsih Winter are well-known from Dunx' Room 101 game, so I need add no more this year.
Ok, we'll let it slide.
I am willing to put up with snow, but having to walk over ice at 8:00 in the morning is a bit much.
slippery slope
I had to run! That was amusing, not!
I like ice!
Wheeeeeeeeeee!
Ice!
You slide across it for a metre or two into a neat crouching position ready to make the next snowball. Thus speaks the voice of experience.
Snow and all things white
I've just come back from 4 days in Prague (*quiet gloat*). The Czech people really know how to deal with snow and cold things in general, but they do have the advantage of not having so much ice. They just get on with it. Yes, its cold, Yes, snow is a pain in the arse but you can't help it so just get on with things (and drive a bit slower and more smoothly whilst you're at it). Sorry if I'm grumpy, think I've spent too much time with my mother!
grumpless Lib
You don't seem to be grumpy :-). I'd LOVE to go to Prague and I wouldn't mind going with my mother either. She provides possibly the most enriching and uplifting moments in my life. She is also very reliable. I am indeed fortunate.
*spare game slot removed due to lack of interest*
smiling Lib
(Chalky) Prague is wonderful. Please visit! I did have a lovely time there and normally things are great between us, just occasionally she gets on my nerves. But I've had a nap and now have things in perspective, I am a lucky littel cresenter to have had a holiday. However being away means I feel a little confused about the Hutton stuff.
*Rab: didn't see it there. If someone comes up with an idea do we get a second chance?*
monday night rocks!
IN a brief chat with Chalky just now, we discovered a new music genre ('Church Hall Rock' - obvious rhymes, twee love themes and heavy guitars) and a new word ('saccentuate', being over-saccharine). And in our Saturday morning flush of creativity, we also thought it would be nice to have some anarchy hit the chat room on Monday night. Just remembering how great rab looked in that long-haired wig from two or three pilgramges ago made me wonder if you lot might be up for a Heavy Metal Night? MC meets Spinal Tap...
[pen] Oh, yes, that wig, are there any pics?
Rock on
Pen] Yeah, yeah, yeah! Sounds good - but can I put in an early request for a Animated Cartoon themed epilg someday soon?
Wiggy
[Raak] I sent Dunx some a while ago, but they have yet to appear.

[All] I may well not be in the chatroom on Monday due to a visitation from my brother; on the other hand, it may not last alnight so I could make a late entry into the charts.

Oh, and...
[Tuj] Indeed you do.
Oh, I see!
[Bob the dog] Now I understand why I had no idea as to wether you were being sarcy in the "Lying Game": I thought it was some offshot of the "Advice" game on MCiOS. Sorry 'bout that.
Big fibs
Googolplex the Amazing Balancing Goat from Luxembourg] Hooray!
Toon Time
[Bog the dob] Take your pick. What would everyone else like to do? Can I be Musky from Deputy Dawg?
rassafrassarickarackets
I'd would come along as Klunk, from Stop the Pigeon, but my Viavoice seems to be having some trouble.

A return to the top for ffiish , thanks to this weeks special celebrity I'm Jordan Get Me on the Front Page

Cashed up
Well done, ffish. I have to admit that this last week I simply cashed in and sat. Not being in the U.K. it can be difficult at times - unless one wishes to spend inordinate amounts of time trawling news pages - so my apologies if I have let down the team.
Pick of the Week
Pen] I can see us getting into a "no, after you!" scenario. But I would like to be Touché Turtle. Or Boo-boo. Or...
cashing up
Dujon] I can understand your reasons, and there is no need to apologise, please play a while longer. If you need a rest buy into a couple of long term stocks that will be steady but will hit the headlines occasionally like the Queen or one or more of the Princes, perhaps J-Lo or a movie star like Russell Crowe. Maybe even a portfolio of three or four blue chips, even on a quiet week there will be a payout. Don't do what I foolishly did I bought a solid earner when they were too high, then their stock plummeted.
e-pilg
I'm all for a cartoon e-pilg tomorrow!
Crisis!
I've just woken up in the middle of my only lecture of the week to discover that while it is taking place in the confines of the institute at the campus, I have been 'happily' dozing back here at my flat. I am going to be in sooooooooooooooooooooooooo much trouble! How did this happen?!
Only lecture of the week? What nonsense is this? Actually, come to think of it, when I was a student I had no compulsory lectures at all, but I still went to them. I'm not sure why.
Gah, I only turned my back for four years and Mornington Crescent Not At York Anymore is gone! This just will not do...
ZK - lateness
Say you were ill. Ring up and apologise, and go in tomorrow (or this afternoon) and get what lecture notes you can. You'll be fine!
So, did anyone else notice the product placement in last night's Auf Wiedersehen Pet?
Yes, but I've forgotten it. There was something where I thought "they can't mention that on the BBC!" but, er, no, it's gone.
placing products
Nope, missed it. What did they show? (BTW, hello Jenny! Have you found MCiOS yet? In case you haven't, just click here to find it. Also tonight from about 8 or 9 pm there is an e-pilg so you can join in if you click on the "Real time chat server" link just under the clock on that page.)
Things
Among other things, Moxey was resplendent in an MC5 t-shirt.
product placement
Oh, no, that wasn't it.
MCiOS
I dimly remember Parslow actually. Blimey, it looks like Kevan is still around. I have a couple of OMD albums that once belonged to him...
neither a lender nor a borrower..
Oh, so you're one of those naughty people who don't return albums! (I'd have nagged you to death myself, but maybe Kevan went off OMD) So where have you been for 4 years?
[ZK] Were you supposed to be teaching it or attending it?
Now the truth can be told
[ZK -- how it happened] I'm not supposed to tell you this, but you ought to know. If you had attended that lecture, you would have met the love of your life and lived a happy life together. However, the son you would have had would eventually grow up to be an evil despot worse than any seen before in human history, responsible for the annihilation of 90% of the human race. Therefore, time travellers from that blighted future came back to last night and laced your drink with large quantities of tranquiliser, ensuring you overslept and missed the lecture, thus averting the creation of that timeline. You may be in trouble now, but think of the far greater calamity that has been relatively painlessly averted.
Seriously, hope you don't get in too much bother over it. (Assuming an "Attending" answer to Raak's Q:) Do they take a register or is it a small enough class that absences are noticeable? What are you studying that only has one lecture a week?
Kevan's albums
I deny it! I paid for those albums fair and square. I could have had his old Modern Romance 12"s as well, but passed.
albumming around
[Jenny]Oh, that's alright then. :) Do you still listen to them?
all my friends want to do my course
{Breadmaster, snorgle, Raak, Brendan] They take a register every week - I have lots to do but it only takes the form of a lecture once, the rest is done in classes (language etc.) I'm doing a Classics BA. As it was, I wasn't feeling well, and told my friend to apologise to my other tutor later today and get everything from that class for me. I caught up on some (apparently) much-needed rest until my flatmate decided that the whole of Birmingham wanted to hear Evanescence and Avril Lavigne at such a volume that you could almost tell what the record producers were eating on the other side of the booth when they were making the song. Yippee.
But I'm still not happy as my lecture is the only historical input they get every week, and one of our lecturers said that the lecture register is one of the first things that alerts them to the fact that you're having problems with your course...ie that you're a layabout. [Brendan] Thankyou, I needed that. :)
We are the Albumen
Not that often, but then the same goes for most of my collection really. I'll probably dig them out now.
[rab] Er... yes, you're right, aren't you? Note to self: pull finger out.
[ZK] My best excuse for not attending Uni lecturers was to claim I was boycotting them. This did not perturb my tutors in the least, acclimatised as they were to student politics. They didn't ask the reason.
And really, you know, it's about time they started using webcams to narrowcast the lectures anyway. I've attended several sessions at the University of Washington (where I'm not even a student) via this method.
Crashin'
Something went wrong with my connection to the epilg again last night. Was it a good-un?
Watersports
Not sure how it compares to others, but I enjoyed my brief visit. I'm a bit worried about some of the late night tv programmes that snorgle watches, shocked I am!
piercing
I was bored, ok? I don't do that everyday, oh no. Not at all. ;-)
last night, he said...
Sorry about my non-participation. I had a chat going on that required all my attention, but I think there *might* be a positive outcome :o)
pen
Oh good! It sounded like something was going on..
*Mimes well done penf - keep us up to 'date' ;o)*
too late
Didn't make it back from Birmingham in time to join you - maybe there's a transcript to read?
Last night
[penfold] Sorry I ran out the second you appeared, wasn't really s'posed to be there. [snorgle] I saw bits of that programme too - my housemate was pretending to be 'reading some academic research papers with the telly on in the background' when I came in from the pub. Incidentally, a present from DrQ has arrived, so could you drop me a line so we can organise duplication and distribution (rab at angrycake dot com).
Who's pink?
Bob the dog
Pink the panther
I never really got started before it went all pear-shaped.
Tannoy
[snorgle] Thanks for your mail - sadly I'm unable to reply as requested cos you neglected to put your desired return email address in. Any chance you could supply the same? Cheers.
pilg requests
Last night Lord of the Rings was mooted as a possible theme for a future week, though I think this was just snorgle wanting to dress up as an elf, in stockings and a tight leather jerkin.
national elf service
looks shockedhowever did you guess?!?
soooooo...
How does one get onto an e-pilg?
e-pilg
[R5] See here. Look just below the clock to see the link to the 'real time chat server'.
Fabulous. Ta!
oh-oh
[Dujon] are you sure you really wanted to tell a Righwraith where to find everyone?? :-)
gah. Ringwraith, it was
wraith of Bob
[Dujon]That was a bit unwise, you know. I'll have to draw him away from the ringbearer(whoever could THAT be?).
Wraith of who?
snorgle] Not guilty!
wraithful
They are all around..
Heresy
I didn't like 'The Return of the King'. Am I alone in this?
RoTK
[Bob] There has been extensive discourse on that very subject in Orange MC [Chat Game].
N E W G A M E ? ? ?
May I express an interest here? Any chance of an MC game? I rather like Kim's idea of a couple of weeks ago.
NG
[Chalky] Could you remind us what that suggestion was?
alone all alone
Bob] I doubt it. I haven't seen it, and have no plans to. I have an aversion to things that become so popular.
Of course, I went to their very first gig in the car park of a sewage farm
[st d] Just curious; what happens if something you like becomes popular after you started liking it? Do you go off it, or do you think "Yay, it became popular, people have occasional flashes of good taste after all"?
Harry Potter? Pah! I knew his parents...
I think std has a point. Once things become too popular, all of their imaginative juices are sucked out by hype and marketing.
tarry ye a while in knip
Chalky] If I may be so bold as to enquire of you fair maiden, whither this be the poste ye didst refer? whilst thou is here, try this Ye Game of ye Crescent Morningtown on Orange
MC
[rab, Inkspot] Yes 'twas the very thinge ... or Cockney Rhyming Slang MC ...
Newgame
Inkspot's right. My idea for a new game a couple of weeks ago was for a revival of "Ye Crescent Morningtowne" from a couple of years ago. Since then, I've had two other flashes of inspiration mundane ideas.
Idea 1: "Claim to Fame". First person posts a (possibly actual, possibly fictional) claim to fame (eg "My father once interviewed David Cassidy" (this is true)) and the next person tries to better it in some way. Needs refining.
Idea 2: Problem page: first person posts an unlikely-sounding "Dear Marge" problem and the next person provides some humourous advice.
Hey, I'm an ideas man; I leave it to the little people to work out the details!
popularity
Brendan] I suppose the example that springs to mind is The Italian Job which is a movie i vividlu recall watching when I was about ten years old, then when it came on TV again when I was about 17 I made sure to tape it. (this will be about 1988 ?) I always loved that movie - then recently (last 5 years) it became the epitome of Clerkenwell Cool, which I found irksome. What is annoying I think is that ten years ago I could have said to someone "watch this movie it is great". Now, it is no longer anything special, which is a shame
Funnily that reminds me that I watched Charade at the weekend - another film that I love that I had seen a long time ago - tjough one that has not gained the *cult* status of Italian Job. It wasn't quite as good as I remembered which was a little dissappointing - though still it is fabulous.
Bob] I am not sure if it is the hype and marketing. Maybe. Mayeb I am just a snob ? Its like holiday destinations. As soon as they become discovered my the MOB they lose their charm.
KIM] but can we ever do better than this :-PROBLEM PAGE - Ask a Navy Seal
LOTR
I enjoyed the film - although I can certainly see how a lot of people would find the first hour boring. I really feel that this is an excellent interpretation of the book(s) - the story is so extensive, it needed a huge film to do it justice. I don't get put off by something being popular - if I like, I don't care how popular it is, although its annoying when people assume you're jumping on a bandwagon because it happens to be fashionable.
Ye newe gayme
Crescente is certainly a possibility; personal problems were solved by Mrs Trellis a while ago on Orange. Meanwhile there's an idea going around at MCiOS at the moment that might be appropriate. Whatever, I'll open my slot. Please, someone, do fill it.
Second Thoughts MC
I'm sure I posted here about half an hour ago .. ah well. It was along the lines of .. why repeat games which have been played SO well [the Morningtowne link] and surely there's a limit to how much humour/wordplay you can squeeze out of a theme?
Has cockney slang been played recently?
Trappist games are fun.
[St d] Is Navy Seal a one trick pony?
oo-er missus!
[rab]fnarr fnarr!
Way-hey!
rabsnorgle] Gibber gibber!
Game for a ...
I want to play a game of Superghosts; I just don't think it would work.
I am Mr Chirpy-chops!
I was not put off by the popularity. I have never really liked that kind of fantasy stuff so I did not enjoy the books. Yes, I was conscripted to D&D clubs in my 6th form days - and I do enjoy some intelligent SF (Rendezvous with Rama, The Seventh Angel, Danny Darko), but hobbits never appealed. I enjoy some BIG Hollywood films as much as continental/independent/low-budget/arthouse ones – Central Station being a fave - so I was hoping for some rip-roaring SFX and a glorious ending. 'Fellowship' was OK, a bit laboured on the scenery and a half-hearted ending but enjoyable. 'Towers' was excellent. Full of humour and wonderful effects (although tree-beard was a bit 1970s Dr Who). Nah, the worst of the bunch was 'Return' - overacted, over produced and over here. The final scene was so laboured (filmed in perfume commercial-style soft-focus slo-mo) I was hard-pressed not to giggle. I was disappointed.
And another thing. I rented a film called Identity recently and enjoyed it. So can we have the "Seen any good movies?" game back?
Movies
Books = movies, as far as the 'recently' game at MCiOS is concerned.

If you see what I mean.

OK, I'll just stick a sock in it.

hoo hoo hee hee!
[rab]Ooh, dunno if that'll be enough to fill your slot, though!
50 ways to .... fill a slot
1] Put a sock in it. *chuckle*
I have unashamedly nicked Kevan's game idea [MCiOS chat] which rab referred to earlier. There seems to be some support for it.
*wonders how much inside knowledge snorgle has of my slot*

I take it these ways will be a bit ironical, like.

50 rhymes
... and we have to do the rhyming name bit aswell?
*mist clears*
[Chalky] Thanks, didn't get the reference you see!
[rab] I posted that last [above] as a suggestion and didn't realise you had already started the game off ... so Iwent ahead with the rhyme for No 2
Wot makes you think I'm a miserable basket?
And I was hoping for a Room 101 revival. Sundays! They should go into room 101, along with golf, the film 'Titanic', Paris, powerdressing, LotR, anything New-Age, fake leaded windows, wet cardboard, Bromsgrove, stew, BMWs, motorway service station gifts, nasal-hair, McDonalds, ties, self-assessment tax forms and diets. On the bright side, I have lost (nearly) 1 stone since I started.
Btd] If I was Paul Merton I'd give you all of those bar the first, fourth and sixth (though I might let "the excessive hype surrounding ..." in). But what's wrong with Sundays? Best day of the week, is Sunday (unless you're trying to travel by train, admittedly). Well done on your success with the diet.
golf
Golf is a great game. The problem with golf is the type of people who join golf clubs.
And on the seventh day...
Sundays. Epitomised by that huge expensive waste of time and money, Sunday papers. Like the day itself, they are full of nothing and go on forever. Retail therapy is out of the question as the only shops that open on Sundays (in my area) are the big chain-stores, and they, with no exceptions, are all contenders for room 101. Then there is that dull grey Sunday afternoon feeling when you desperately seek out something to take up your time that has nothing to do with the work you have to do for Monday morning.
In my childhood, Sundays were often spent at aunts houses, being fed over-rich cake and stewed tea from willow-pattern china to the dead-slow ticking of a Westminster chimes mantelpiece clock. Ah ha! Another contender for room 101, ceramic figurines. I remember having my hair brushed by my aunts. They did it so hard that great hand-fulls of hair would come out. They'd introduce my brother and I to their friends daughters in the hope of sparking childhood romances. When you are eight, that is scary.
When I was a student, Sundays were a little better. You can take a friend to bed for a whole day. But I'd usually do that on a Saturday and work or do my laundry or visit relatives on Sundays. In my first job I had to work on Sundays. As I did with my second and third. Now I'm self-employed and I should be working on Sundays. I (day of un) rest my case.
Well I think Sundays are sexy.
black sabbath
Sundays are cool so long as you've done all your work by then.
Sundays are the day for getting out in the weather, getting a lot of fresh air all in one go and having messy hair, because Sunday night is bath night! I tend to be scruffier on Sunday than a Saturday, which is a habit stretching back to when I was a kid, and used to cycle out to my grandparents in the country to spend the day helping my grandad with his horses. Am I the only kid who grew up in anoraks and wellies and never really lost the habit?
[Bob the dog] You mean, of course, the first day. Saturday's the seventh, which is why Saturday is the Sabbath.
pen] yes.
Sunday tactics
[Btd] The trick for dealing with Sundays is to get steaming drunk and stay up really late on Saturday night, and thus sleep through most of Sunday, and what you are conscious for, you'll be able to fill with pain, nausea and regret. And then running around washing clothes, pots, etc in preparation for the return to work on Monday.
Sundays are for doing all the work you didn't get to through the week.
No, Sundays are for sitting around feeling guilty that you're not doing all the work you didn't get to through the week.
Sundays are for feeling guilty that all the work you did do during the week merely goes to increasing human misery in the long run.
[Jenny] Are you an estate agent?
human misery
[penelope] Teacher, I bet Jenny's a teacher.
Allow me to act as medium for the following telepathic message...
Dear 'I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue' mailing list member, If you are free on the evening of Sunday 29th February, live in the London area and are keen not to miss the final recording of the next series of Barry and Graeme's 'Hamish & Dougal - You'll Have Had Your Tea', you can get free tickets to the show from the BBC Ticket Unit. See details below. All the best (and apologies if you live too far away to come) Jon Naismith & Janet Staplehurst. GET YOUR FREE TICKETS to witness for yourselves the further exploits of Hamish & Dougal in the final recording of the second series of their hilarious Radio 4 comedy “You’ll Have Had Your Tea” starring Barry Cryer and Graeme Garden with Alison Steadman as their housekeeper Mrs Naughtie & Jeremy Hardy as the local Laird. Fans of their many appearances in Radio 4’s “I’m Sorry I Haven’t A Clue”, will be thrilled to hear that Hamish and Dougal, those delightfully eccentric and frequently misunderstood Scotsmen, are to make a second series of their own radio vehicle. For a rollicking laughter-fest and more jokes than you can shake a stick at come to The Cochrane Theatre, Southampton Row, London WC1B 4AP (nearest tube: Holborn)on Sunday 29th February Doors open 7.15pm - Show starts 7.30pm To claim your free tickets – simply telephone the BBC Ticket Unit on 020 8576 1227 or email radio.ticket.unit@bbc.co.uk or apply online at www.bbc.co.uk/tickets
Woe! Whoa!
Not a teacher, I work in educational supplies. But I've rather lost faith in the education system recently.
A good dump
In my youth, having been a dumpee a few times, I speculated that it was much easier being on the dumping side, since you knew it was coming. When catapaulted into the opposite position, I realised that being dumped is, in fact, considerably simpler, since you didn't know it was coming.

Why do I mention this, you ask? Every so often I'm asked to review papers for academic journals, and until today I've never had cause to recommend a rejection... and for some reason I feel rather bad about doing so. But then, we can't be accused of falling standards now, can we?

rejection
[rab] It's what publishers have to do all the time, but still not pleasant to be in the judgement seat. Do you know, or are you likely to meet, this person?
It's not nice to be negative, but then you can't reward bad work, can you?
Or you could reject another - as two negatives make a positive!
Red-inked
[rab] You'll get over it. Consider it a necessary herd-thinning.
can we still be friends?
[rab] Count yourself lucky that the editors are sending you such good papers. In my field at least, rejection rates in the top journals run 90-95% or so. I certainly have to recommend rejection much more often than acceptance.
Nul points
[rab] It's positively a public service to see that rubbish doesn't reach print. In the past I've rejected several papers for triviality, several for technical slipshoddery, one for outright crackpottery, and one for unwittingly reproducing (but not as well) some of the results from a certain fundamental paper that hardly anyone has read but everyone cites (including the authors of the rejected paper). I assume your refereeing process is anonymous?
Too much empathy
Rab] It is not quite the same thing I know, but I dislike interviewing for the same reason. Up to ten people, probably five of which have high hopes for the job have put in a great deal of time and effort to make themselves presentable and revealed a great deal of personal information about themselves are then put on trial for one position. Nine have to be turned down or 'put on file'. I hate it.
Half empty or half full?
[Btd] Does it work to think instead of the benefit done to not only the successful candidate, but all the other employees of the company (university, etc.) by appointing the right one?
Personal Motivation
[Btd] My motivator was just that I would have to work with whoever was hired, and I didn't want to have to carry them. But then the last bit of intensive interviewing which I did was for a contractor position, so it was much less about the person and much more about the skills.
Stuffing
[CdM, Raak et al] I agree... The number of times I've read stuff that's been published thinking "How on earth did this get through?" means that, having been hit with something like that there is only one response. I would say more, but I fear any attempt at anonymity would go through the window.
Why?
I would be interested in the opinions of fellow posters - I have thought about this from time to time but I don't think that I have actually posted my opinion.  Why, when our User Names are posted in bold type do we insist on then using HTML tags to match the entry?  To me it really does make the entries rather hard to read.  This does not apply only to this site.  Why do we do this to ourselves?
Confused
[Dujon] I'm not quite sure that I understand your question - no, actually I am quite sure that I do no understand! What do you mean by "match"?

If you mean "Putting game moves in bold" then the answer is "to make an actual move stand out from any by play and commentary". That's about the only interpretation I can place on your query, but I'm still confused to be honest.

Ahhh (maybe -- maybe I've missed the point entirely)
[Dujon] Are you by chance referring to games like Advice, 10,000 Celerity CDs, the various poetry ones, etc. where practically the entire game is written in bold, as opposed to the MC games where having the moves picked out in bold is useful? Would you prefer to see more games take the style of, say, Auckland and 50 Ways, to take two recent examples?
Convention
[Dujon] I, too, am slightly unsure precisely what you are asking, but a bit of historical input might be called for. In the early days, there was basically no markup, but this caused a problem as if you simply made the comment "and I reckon we can reach Mornington Crescent in three from here" the game would end. So to prevent this problem, it was decided that the moves should be marked up so the server could work out the actual move made amongst the other text. This has the side-effect that moves are also more obvious to the observer. In non-MC games, early posters seem to set the convention for that game. There seems a general trend towards those games where commentry is inappropriate to be played unemphatically (e.g. Auckland). All this is self-organising however. As to displaying the player name in bold, well, I think it just looks better, and allows you to see more clearly where moves start and end - this is most useful in these chat games. I have a vague recollection that York (at least in its early days) didn't mark up the player name.
interviews
I know of someone who apparently used to just take about half the CVs received for consideration and chuck them in the bin, saying "I really don't want to give this job to an unlucky person". Harsh, but amusing.
markup
(cross posted from MCiOS, after spotting that you wanted us to reply here) [Dujon] There is quite often a legit reason for doing this. Sometimes you want to separate your move from your commentary about your move (as in MC games themselves), so you'd tend only to embolden your actual chosen move, and then refer to other stations which are relevant in italics. If you look at the York archives, you'll see this is a practice that grew up over time. The same thing happened with limericks, to enable the submitted line to be distinct from comments (and heaven knows that's always helpful with some of the scansion round 'ere). It's become useful in other context to the extent that it's now hard-wired in the system to a certain extent, with Dan's advice-o-matic looking for material only that's marked up with b tags. So there's a sort of logic at work there. I suppose we could use i tags instead, but I tend to find italic text just that little bit more fiddly to read on screen.
Yes
I was referring to the readability of various games. Particularly those where a bold user name is immediately followed by a bold post (which was what I meant - although poorly expressed - by 'matching'.) Given the explanations given by the site owners I now understand that there is a reason for this particular method of operation. I shall now shut up.
* Please ignore the second 'given' *
*ignores*
Hadn't even noticed it!
Well, my damning report is written... just ensuring the English is authentically bad so my tracks are covered.
Don't publish and be damnned
rab] You are not un-spellchecking the academic journal you have rejected are you? ;o)
Tnny
[Chalky] Ml rcvd, rpns snt. If it doesn't get through this time then perhaps my mail server doesn't like talking to yours.
just two things ....
[rab] Your mail server likes my inbox :-)

... and [Bob] Is the ISIHaC weekend in May still a runner?

Well..
Chalky] Well I hope so. MF sent me some fabulous scripts and there was a great deal of interest initially. I've never been on a pilg and I didn't realised until reading through the posts on Orange that they can be like mini ISIHACs but far less 'organised'. I began to feel like I was being too prescriptive about the whole thing.

The other problem was finding reasonable low-cost accommodation for those staying over. The hotel I first chose quoted £35 per night, but then told me that was per person without breakfast. A twin room with breakfast was priced at £75. Then I tried a pub called 'England’s Rose', 'cos it had real ale, was in a nice location and had lots of rooms and camping space. But when I visited it, it was a full on Princess Diana theme pub and every time I asked how many rooms and what the pricing was I got a different reply. So it was back to the drawing board and now I'm (fortunately) very busy. Fortunately because I've just gone self-employed. I have wondered about a youth hostel - very basic (bring your own sheets/sleeping bag) but very cheap and lots of fun. Any takers?
I'd be happy to stay in a youth hostel. If it's one of those where people share dormitories, though, I'm afraid I have to warn people in advance that I snore...
youth hostels
Keep in mind - they tend to have curfews - and from personal experience, other hostellers can get very grumpy if you're just 5 minutes late finishing off a shower and getting into bed after lights out.
Middle-aged hostels
Some hostels are party bookable. I'm looking into that. As for shared rooms, I've never been to one that had private rooms, but that can be part of the fun, snorin' and all. Otherwise - its ears to the ground trying to find a reasonable hotel. Has anyone had any experience of conference or group booking?
me
[Bob] So we're looking for an inn, preferably, with a large enough meeting/conference room and bed & breakfast at a reasonable price [say £30]. West Midlands? Which Saturday did you decide on? How many approx? I ask all this because ... I'm doing a freelance job at the mo which enables access to this very information; also at home I have 24 hour internet plus free UK phone calls. I can't promise anything, but I'll have a scout around.
Chalky the star
Chalky] WMids, cos it is central and we may have folks from Manchester and London - so Motorway access would be good. Saturday 29th May, Approx 15 (but good chance of more). Function room not essential if there is a decent pub nearby that has a spare room. Piano would be nice but not essential 'cos I may be able to borrow an electric one. If you do find something, I can visit to check it out, unless you live in the WMids too!
hurtle
Oh, a hotel every time for me. Getting too old for Youth Hostel larks. Still if there's a YH and hotel/B&B in reasonable proximity I guess there's no reason for people not to have a choice.
prescription charge
[Btd] I don't think you're being too prescriptive. I think it'd be nice to try something a bit more organised than usual, and the regular pilgs continue for those who prefer their fun more improvisatory.
Pro Joy
:o)
a splash of cold water
[Bob, PJ] I'm in South Wiltshire, not so far away and yes - I'm all for hotel accommodation, provided it's cheap and clean. However, it is already evident from certain inquiries I've made, that, being a Bank Holiday weekend, we may be more restricted in our choices. Also, for those that need to travel some distance ... it's a popular 'getting away from it all' weekend = traffic chaos. Just a thought.
It comes of having an electronic organiser rather than a paper diary...
Oh gershplatz, I hadn't realised it was a Bank Holiday. I think bank hol weekends are best avoided so rethink time. Check for dates June 5th, 12th and May 22nd then. Please.
dates
OK - June 5th is the last Saturday of school half term [although this varies from county to county] so that may affect things slightly. To start the ball rolling - I'm up for May 22nd.
directory enquiries
... sorry for multiposting - but can anyone recommend a decent directory enquiry number? I've a long list of possible venues but no telephone numbers and I feel it's better to ring up and establish a basis for negotiation, before checking them out.
Yes
Try the phone co-ops 118 114. It is cheap, quick and reliable.
Phone numbers
I preferred 118118, because I rather liked their ads and their chief executive, when interviewed on TV, seemed a lot more straightforward and fair than his opposite number at 118888. However, I've found 118888 to be far more reliable when it comes to actually finding numbers.
DQ
[Chalky] Can't you find these numbers free-of-charge on the web? Sometimes typing the name of the venue (quoted) into Google comes up trumps. Then there's the BT, Yellow Pages and Thomson Local Directories too...
PS
I've just watched a video of atoms bouncing up and down on videotape. I wanted to ask the Prof why he's stuck in the 1980's and doesn't use DVD instead :)
The MC un-convention
I was about to suggest the Hotel Portmeirion, but have just checked the prices and am still shaking and sweating.
transport of delight
Is there something to be said for having the affair somewhere within reach of public transport, as for those of us who don't drive, taxis can really add a bit of a premium. Possibly (and aptly) on a branch line someplace?
numbers and possibilities
Thanks all - and yes, rab, I did just that.
OK - already there's a possibility - Brownsover Hall, Rugby [where the M1 & M6 meet] which is a gothic mansion! Nice people. They can accommodate us on May 15 or May 29 [unfortunately they have a very large wedding on May 22] for a group rate of £35 per head which includes full English breakfast. Also a bonus - NO single room supplements for those that would rather snore privately. There's a choice of two private rooms we can use as well, both near the bar [Boddingtons, Flowers - dunno if they're crap beers or not]. There IS a smallish wedding on the 15th, so we shouldn't be too conspicuous by our jollity. No deposit needed - just a written confirmation from me.
Cor, sounds great. I'm in for any of those dates.
Non fat cat
Bread] I prefer the phone co-op because it is owned and controlled by its customers. I've had more problems with both 118118 and 188888 than 118 114, and it is cheaper than both.
directions and a pic
Hope I've got this right.
[PJ] It's 2 miles from the station - I'm sure someone will pick you up :-)
Location location location
[Chalky] Looks like a good venue, eminently walkable from the station (so Projoy won't have to splash out on taxis). Transport links look good to.
Brownsover
Chalky] That was my first choice! Are you good at price negotiation? They did not include breakfast when I asked. I agree, it is a great potential venue.
taxisplash
[rab] How dare you. I've never splashed out in a taxi! That's just a rumour!
[Btd] I thought the name sounded familiar, but couldn't put my finger on it.
smiling
Well I've got to disappear for a while. Can everyone who is interested confirm which of the two dates - 15th or Busy Bank Holiday 29th? .. and [Bob] you have a list of potential players, yes? Just need to know how many singles and how many doubles to book, if we eventually decide on the venue. Blimey - I've turned into a right bossy boots ...
I can do either date. So there! :)
Dateline
Me too, I think. [Thos] Look at you!
As far as I'm aware, either date is good for me as well. Hurrah! Where's MCiOS gone (*me goes to look on orange*)?
(Oh, it's back now. Odd)
Serendipity
I actually couldn't do the 22nd anyway - I'm off seeing Bill Bailey that night. Whee!
Interest
The list so far is:
Chalky (!)-
Lib* -
Boolbar* - (possibly - he has not yet responded to my email - his work is monitoring internet use)
Merlyn
Projoy* - One of the 'Humphs'
I’m not John* -
LotUS* -
Herr Bratche* -
Blamelewis* (Recording the event)–
Martha Farqua* (? - recommended as a 'Humph' has already written a wonderful script.)-
Unkle Korky* -
Nik -
JLE - (Piano)
Thos -
ZK (Possibly now the date has changed)
st dog* (Unlikely, but I think it would be good if he agreed to be one of the 'Humphs'.)
* I have their email address. If you are interested and not listed, mailme. ISP and Dunx have agreed to contibute towards scripts.
ever lengthening list
and rab? and you, Bob?
*slight panic* and more girls please? pen? and the snorg?
[Chalky] I'm a girl. I'll check out the dates.(Angus...not a word now) What exactly's involved at such a gathering? My wit is a much-deliberated thing, it's not quite as spontaneous among strangers...*example* ZK opens mouth: blather bleeble eep...fnar...
[ZK] Part of the point of this gathering is that the opportunities for wit are more deliberative, since players will have some idea of the games ahead of time.
super-plig
Unfortunatly as yet I can't commit either weekend. At the moment both are free, but I have my brother's fiancee's hen night to factor in (and work). Am trying to get a date decided for the hen night, but am between the rock and hard place till then.
Question also - what kind of age is everyone else? without wanting to be too personal about it all. you can answer within the 10-year bracket of course (20s, 50s....)
Yes - ZK, I knew you were a girl :-)
I'm also pretty dumbstruck when faced with new people and situations, but then I'm only 16.
Well I haven't had a holiday in years, and would love to come meet you all and have you laugh at my accent. It isn't hugely likely, but there's a possibility - more for the 29th than the 15th I think - although I do seem to recall Britain being even more expensive than most places.
[Chalky] Are you being sarcastic? I never can tell.
Wait!
They let 16 year-olds drink that much brandy?
[Toby] ... particularly with the exchange rate as it is. Can't say I'm looking forward to the phenomenal cost as and when I get back to Blighty. Not that I know when that might be, of course.
Numbers - format
Ooops, yes and rab and me. Lib - I do hope you can come! Pen wrote to me to say she will probably be at race meetings throughout May.

Going back to format (ZK + all) - ISIHAC in real life is semi-scripted. The game introductions are scripted and players are warned weeks beforehand of the games they are to play. So - if I there is to be a game of 'late arrivals at the proctologists ball' players are warned in advance and have time to put down some amusing answers to read out.
[chalky] Teachers are getting younger and younger, aren't they? Personally I'm about 65, at least on the inside.
Yes
I'm a yes.
why use one word when a hundred will do ...
[ZK] Sorry, sarcasm or irony doesn't really transfer onto the screen. Although I'm fairly confident with strangers in my areas of expertise [!], meeting in a social context is a different matter, so yes, I tend to blush and stammer. I've never quite grown out of it. Regarding age, I'm relatively new to the Crescent, so can only assume that most of the regulars here are between the ages of 23 and 45, with the hardcore 'originals' in their thirties. But having said that, I know that Rosie and Duj and possibly Software, are older. Conversely, quite a few undergraduates post in here. Perhaps someone who has been around for more than 5 years can correct me on that? As Breadmaster indicated, the wrapping is meaningless - it's what's inside that links us together.
ZK] You can be The Lovely Samantha. That does not require any wit, though if a player is late you may have to sit on his seat until he comes.
Ages
I'm 27, and have been playing MC over the net for about seven years now.
Humphing
[st d] You are the scriptwriter for Humphrey Lyttleton and I claim my £5.
[ZK] I'm in my late thirties, which excludes me from auditioning for the role of Samantha. :o(
Oldtimer
I discovered online MC shortly after I discovered the world wide wait web in 1995. At the time I got the impression that most people, like me, were students having (a) a lot of time on their hands and (b) unfettered access to the Internet (this was before yer average Joe had a modem, for example). The fact that the York usage stats dropped dramatically between June and September would bear this out. Nevertheless, I'm a mere 28! (Or is it 29, I've no idea).
No need to audition
I'm exactly the same age as Pen. Regarding Samantha, I have secured a guest appearance by the real Samantha, and the real Sven. Anyone who has been to a recording of ISIHAC will know just how exciting that is!
Either date should be fine with me as well. [ZK] I'm 23, having played on and off over the last 3-4 years. [BtD] Fantastic!
busying myself
[Bob] As you seem to have enough on your hands organising the artistic content of the event, are you happy for me pursue the venue booking, administration etc? Also, have we actually agreed on a date? Although the 15th May seems to be popular, I could make some enquiries about the 12th June?
The Lovely Samantha
But Bob, when i spoke to the real Samantha she told me that she was doing a charity bungee jump in Trafalgar Square that weekend. She apologised and said that she would think about us playing with ourselves whilst she was bouncing up and down on Nelson's column.
[st d] outrageous!
Age before beuaty
I'm 42, have been playing (mainly MCiOS) for 5-6 years, and listening to ISIHAC for 25! Hope to be there, family commitments permitting etc etc etc
Vital Statistics
I'm 34 at the end of the month, same day as Elizabeth Taylor and Brian Cant. They're both coming over.
Lovely indeed
st d] Ah, yes, but that was before the reprehensible outbreak of vandalism in the city that has led to Nelson being defaced. Samantha has kindly offered to help with restoration, including giving Nelson a bit of head. Sadly, despite her best efforts, Nelson will not be fully erect in time for her jump off, so she will be available to come to Rugby for a bit.
Samantha and Rugby
Having watched her perform, sheis truly a mistress of the hands-on approach, her ball play is awesome and she can catch a fly-half between her teeth like nobody's business. We could learn a lot from her.
PS
'That's Entertainment' has just started on BBC2. 140 Hollywood minutes of pure joy [I'll never get anything done now].
X-Post announcement
LAYDEEZUNGEMMUN - I refer you all to this page for details of a forthcoming concert - see the "Russian Giants" entry for details. We'll also be repeating the performance in the 29th in Shrewsbury Abbey. For ticket details see here. Thank you for your attention.
That IS entertainment!
Is that the thing hosted by Gene and Fred, or am I imagining it?
concerts
Well, that should be fairly easy for me to get to, I'm at the university. Where is this hall you speak of?
typical
would you believe that's the weekend of going-homeage?
Youth and experience
[Chalky] Either you're lying about your age (given your posting about Samantha), or teenage magazines are now to be found on the top shelf!
[HB] I was a child bride ;-]
re. BPO - you must be listed in the Current Players List - what instrument do you play?
Instrumentally
Bratsche (Ger.) = Viola (Eng.) I'm the one at the top of the list. Are you local?
I remember fondly the days when she used to invite me and Steve Irwin to her private estate in back-country Australia. How she used to enjoy having me deep in her bush as we both watched Steve playing with his snake.
Ooh my friend plays the viola!
translocation
[HB]You're principal viola then? Oh I say. I'm about a hundred miles south, but I occasionally work in Brum and have friends there.
violas
ZK] Maybe Herr Bratsche is your friend ? Had you considered that ? How spooky would that be ? I am a 94 year old woman.
[st d] Well, I had my suspicions...
ZK] that I was 94 ?
Yes.
Uninteresting tidbit
I have a very good friend who is a viola player. For years she did quite literally nothing else, but now she diversifies by also playing jazz double bass, which I consider to be a step in the right direction.
Did you hear about the gangster string quartet? They were charged with extracting money with violins.
[ZK] I think I'll be 27 by the time of the Pilg (based on a gnawing suspicion that I'm 26 at the moment).
Should Lib end up being unavailable (and public transport ends up being undesirable), I'd be happy enough to drive Northern types down. My car fits 4 passengers, in theory, and I have no reason to doubt it. As for playing a part, I think I'm best suited to propping up the bar and providing a laugh-track. And some vulgarity, if you're all unlucky.
[rab] The parser is getting HTML wrong, if I'm not mistaken - or is it deliberately replacing < with &lt;?
DeHTMLification
Aha! It's the preview, it seems.
celebdaq
[DrQu+xum]Who on earth do you own?? Here am I sitting raking in a veritable tabloid pittance....
Viola players
(Breadmaster) There is a cruel joke amongst muso's thus: "What do you call a viola player with Grade V1". "Gifted".
ah, viola jokes
What's the difference between a trampoline and a viola? You take off your shoes to jump on a trampoline.
there's more!
A conductor and a violist are standing in the middle of the road. which one do you run over first, and why?
The conductor. Business before pleasure.
Ha ha ha ha ha
[ZK] If you want the full set, see here. Also has links to jokes about other musicians.
DeHTMLification confusion
[Nik] Do I take your second post as a kind of "everything's ok" or is there some "feature" I should investigate?
Old and wise?
[Thos] 34 on the 29th february? So, that'll make you 136 in real terms! Well done old man for hiding your age so well!
[ZK] There's a few viola players hiding around the crescent. I one of the very ametuer ones.
Young and foolish
And at times I'm also very ametuer at spelling and English. *blushes and hides cos of stupidity*
Middle fiddles
[Lib] If you apply sufficient pressure to JLE's gonads he will also confess ...
Shrewsbury
[HB] I knew there was a few of us! We will take over the world. Can I ask why Shrewsbury for the second concert. Its a lovely place but doesn't often get good concerts. (Its my home town, and according to my driving lisence I still live there!). Personally I think St Mary's church is a better concert venue, but the Abbey is lovely too. I will encourage my mum to go and watch you.
Shrewsbury Abbey
[Lib] Why? Why not! As for the venue, many moons ago we used to do a concert anually in the Music Hall. However, audiences were never good, and the management became less and less helpful, so we stopped going, and were never there for aout 10 years. However, venues come and venues go, and we found ourselves with a gap in the schedule, so approached a number of places, and Shrewsbury Abbey was (a) the right sort of size, and (b) had a helpful attitude. We went there for the first time last year, and got a respectable crowd, so will try again this year.
viola jokes
[HB] Where did you think I got them from? :)
The 'daq
[ZK] I bought a ton of Jordan well before IACGMOOH2 (Can you say £10+/share dividends for three weeks straight?) and picked up a ton of Janet Jackson the moment her tit hit the screen.
master of the boobiverse
ah...clever plan. i think I just didn't own enough Jordan...although she did pick me up a nice little dividend this week.
Natal Days
[Lib] Actually, my birthday is 27th of Feb. However, I am 136 as you state.
Caesar salad, anyone?
[Lib] Thanks to misreading, I now have a wonderful image in my head of you hiding the cos of stupidity. Is this for when you have no lettuce after your name?
Limericks
I'm not one to complain usually, but frankly the scanning of the lines in the Limericks game has really dropped off recently. I know others have mentioned it there, but some people seem to be revelling in some truly poor versifying (and in one or two cases actually doing so deliberately, I rather think). I'm offering no solution but I must say when I see a bad line being posted, I don't want to play.
[Chalky] I originally misread your comment: 'That's Entertainment' has just started on BBC2. 140 Hollywood minutes of pure joy as "140 minutes of Projoy".
Just getting it off my chest
I hate auditions. I'm terrible at auditions. I've just been cast as a dancer in Much Ado About Nothing because they couldn't be bothered to find me a part. How am I meant to get any other parts on the merit of this performance? I can't dance! A day for rejection, obviously...hmph. Casting directors really get on my tits, and believe me, that's quite a complaint....thankyou for you time.
140 of Projoy
submit it to Channel 4! You'll make a fortune! :)
140 Minutes of Projoy?
[Thos] I don't think BBC2 and the bulk of the British populace is ready for that. ;)
Slimericks
[Thos] We could close the limericks game, I guess.
nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
I love limericks! can't we just ignore the bad lines and carry on? I think maybe we could impose a new rule that if you have more than one line you want to play you can, cos sometimes I have the perfect pair and can't use them. Please please please keep the limerick game! I'll be good!
DeHTMLification
[rab] The preview appears to translate < and > to &lt; and &gt;, therefore breaking HTML tags thereafter posted. Eg <br> becomes &lt;br&gt; in the preview, and hides completely in a posting after that. If that makes sense. Sorry, I've been in the pub since 1pm, since I was accredited by Microsoft in C# Windows development, and the situation isn't improving now I've reached home.
DeHTMLification
...except it's not doing it now. Bugger.
limerickety
It does appear to have been hijacked, rather.
Nothing simpler...
140 minutes of Projoy (as played by Peter Miles).
Arf
[PJ] That blows, Gabriel! Blows! [Rab] I would never advocate closing a limerick game, unless we opened another. But certainly it's a bit much at the moment...
And the third thing is..
Two things. First of all if a game is to close, how about Missive Trellis. Its been good but has slowed down considerably...

Secondly, Chalky - YES - I'll happily still co-ordinate the script writing and stuff if you can take on the organising of the hotel accommodation I'd be really grateful - email me (at the above link) and I'll send you the email contact details I have so that you can confirm numbers and make bookings. *Thanks*

Thirdly, I have to mention this. I've just watched a film on DVD called 'Belleville Rendezvous'. God it was wonderful. Please go out and rent it now - or better still buy it. st d if you are reading this - you'd love this film.
Bellvillious
Chalks, darling, it was on TV on Xmas Day, and was the best bit of TV over the whole holiday. Ruddy marvellous, eh?
if you have a few mins to spare or your bored!!
Have a listen to my solo effort at http://cornerband.com/html/bandPage/bandPage.asp?band_id=1035276 and have a very funky day................
Ein Test
[Nik] I can't reproduce what you describe so this must be a browser thing or perhaps some bizaree HTTP anomoly.

[Bob] Saw Belleville at the cinema, would have enjoyed it more had it not been missold. Maybe I should see it again sometime.

[All] Improve yer limericks, or the grim reaper will reap his rewards.

I've been drinking, does it show?

I'm currently planning on meeting the current celebration by going to Rockworld some time after I wake up today. Should anyone in the Manchester area fancy meeting up for a pint, my mobile number is 0776 26 141 70, or so my phone would have me believe.
[rab] I can't reproduce it either, but then I've no idea how I produced it in the first place. It will probably have to go down as One Of Those Things.
Rockworld
[Nik] I'll engage in a consultation exercise before I commit myself, but I'm definitely interested.
Shrewsbury in the Spring
[Lib and others] I must have been having a brainstorm - the BPO is playing Shrewsbury in April, not February, and our second performance of the "Leningrad" symphony is in Leominster Priory Church, Herefordshire. I've turned up to concerts without my DJ before, but I've never turned up to the wrong church ...
Gigs
(Herr Bratsche) BPO, eh? I'm impressed. No, seriously. But no need for DJ's when you play jazz - just the Big Band T-shirt and the right reading glasses (at my age anyway). My band, Force Ten, is at the Mick Jagger Centre in Dartford on Wed 10 March. A mixture and jazz and swing, some of it quite contemporary and funky. (rab) I'm with you on the limerick-improvement thing; some of them have been totally chaotic, but how do you propose to implement the death threat? :-)
... catching up
[Bob] I'll mail you sometime over the weekend :-)
[PJ] Joyous stuff indeed - was that the birth of your moniker?
[Thos (fellow Piscean) and limerick fans] Subtle and not-so-subtle hints regarding the metre seem to have little impact - pity, because the ideas are amusing and original. I, too, would hate to admit defeat by recommending closure.
[pen] That sure was Entertainment. MGM ruled. Have fun today ;-)
[rab] It didn't show. The drinking.

Thought for St Valentine's Day:
'If we let romance go,
We change a sky for a ceiling.'

Joy unbounded
[Chalky] Projoy appears to be the author (under his real name), and is playing Gabriel!
Projoyful
[HB] He's a particularly talented fellow. [Chalky] I think we'll just have to wait for the dry spell to end! :)
Monica
[Chalky] Yes, indeed. I wrote the script first, then, on discovering YorkMC a few weeks later, redeployed the name. Too good a name to waste on just one outing, I thought. :)
Ace
Projoy] Why is Sylvester called 'the Professor'? Is it a non-BBC spin-off copyright branding issue?
Ah - forgive me, I didn't do my homework and read the rest of the site. Excellent interview Projoy, I agree about Barbie.
Package
[Bob] Did you get yer package?
Bugs the bunny
rab] Yes thank you! I've emailed to say thanks - but I'd also like to thank Dr Q. I have just reached into my grab-bag of superlatives and find I have run out. You are both extremely kind, and I hope to repay you some day.
What's Opera Doc?
Oh my giddy aunt! Tears of mirth!
Die Tüns
Don't you think What's Opera, Doc? should have won an Academy Award? The producer at the time (Eddie Selzer) didn't have it considered. That and Hare-Way To The Stars were considered two of the best cartoons ever (both Chuck Jones-Maurice Noble-Mike Maltese creations.)
Hare Wagner
I thought Opera did win an award - but perhaps not an Academy award.
Whaddya expect in an opera?
[Btd] It was #1 on the 50 Greatest Cartoons of All Time.
A happy ending?
Deservedly.
Greatest cartoons
Opera is wonderful and so is Rabbit of Seville... but for me, nothing will ever beat One Froggy Evening.
belleville
BtD] I saw the last 15 minutes of it at Xmas and loved the animation. Will catch teh whole thing one day I am sure. I like your "st d if you are reading this" it made me feel like a hostage or a missing person :o)
I have just spent the best few days. We had our annual awards on Thursday, presented by Jack Dee who was very funny indeed ("this is the first time in a long time that my audience has had more money than I do" - our main sponsor was BENTLEY - they had their new CONTINENTAL GT on show, and sold THREE !!!! (£120K) - anyway - that was a 6am night, then was in gay paris for a 30th on Saturday which turned out to be possibly the best party I have ever been to. Full of lovely people all wearing something pink. What a great idea - the whole party co-ordinated. Photo heaven. ;o)
There you go. Pretty dull stuff to read about I guess, but I am happy today and thougt I wold share it (its such a rare thing).
sequiturs
(i guess that segued nicely from the "froggy evening" post)
Cartoons
I see number 37 is Bimbo's Initiation.
Nouveau Nyder
Peter Miles, eh? Camp old devil! And what a syrup!
[UK] Are you talking about Peter Miles pretending to be Projoy or Projoy pretending to be Peter Miles? :)
The 'daq
Did the do divvies early this week? I came in this morning and saw I had £55,000 free....
cheque is in the post
DrQu+xum]You were No1 on the League last Friday, I just need to upload the full results tonight. Its a very unusual top three!
My God.
Am I still here?
Are you having an existential crisis of some kind?
More divis
And finally we have confrmation of DrQu+xum at No1 on the daq without even trying!!!!
rab's 'moment'
*instantly assuming Aunty Chalky mode*
rabby rabbykins - you are! still here! and jolly glad we are about that!
er ... is that better now?
The 'Daq
[Inkspot] *thwap* I've only got 1/5 of my portfolio in the Jorda^H^H^H^H^HKatie Price Dividend Machine; the rest gets shuffled constantly.
breaking news
OK, here's an update on the dating front (as all those in the chatroom on Monday seemed so interested). The Valentine's Date with the mystery Frenchman was great fun and very enjoyable, although a rip-off at £30 per head for a meal that should have been more like £17 or £18. Last night he came round to help me put together a flat-pack desk from IKEA (2 minutes 37 seconds) and we drank too much wine. A word of advice here; don't ever ask a Frenchman for a quick demonstration of what makes them so good at French kissing, even in jest.
Hereness
[Breadmaster, Chalky] It was more a reference to my being at work until nearly 9pm last night.... (which was mostly my fault). Of course, cos the posting times aren't displayed on the page (yet) you can't know this :)

[pen] Well done.

french kissing
It wasn't really in jest, though, was it? You say "Oh, so, what's so great about the way you French kiss?" really means "Snog me till I can't breathe, you french love god!" Go on, be honest!
Wily Frenchmen
[pen] But did he steal your kidney? It's a Weebl & Bob reference.
I said kiddley, diddle I?
[rab] I was pretty impressed too. Despite my surprise at how quickly it went up, it's was as solid as a rock!
[DrQ] Not that I'm aware of...
[snorgle] my lips are sealed!!
reluctant medium (and unwitting cross-poster)
I'm getting a message from the other side...Advance details of the recording dates in the Spring Series of the programme. Tickets can be obtained only by telephoning the relevant theatre's box office: Sunday 18th April - The Orchard Theatre, Dartford Ticket prices: £9.50, £7.50, £5.50 Box Office tel: 01322 220000. Doors open: 7pm Shows starts: 7.30pm Shows finish: Approx. 10.30pm (TICKETS NOW ON SALE)
Sunday 2nd May - The Grand Opera House, Belfast Ticket prices: £8.50, £7.50, £6.50, £5.00 and 20 box seats at £11 Box Office tel: 028 9024 1919 Doors open: 7pm Shows starts: 7.30pm Shows finish: Approx. 10.30pm (TICKETS NOW ON SALE)
Thursday 27th May - The Lowry Centre, Salford, Ticket prices: £8.50, £5.50 Box Office tel: 0161 876 2000 or 0870 111 2000. Doors open: 7pm Shows starts: 7.30pm Shows finish: Approx. 10.30pm (TICKETS WILL GO ON SALE FROM MONDAY 23 FEBRUARY)
N.B. These are the only recording dates - the next series will be Autumn 2004 and has yet to be arranged
Is this for...
ISIHAC?
mediocrity
[rab] oh, the ball couded over before I could see for sure, but there was an attractive blonde with an electronic score card, and a sharpei dog as chairman.
Hello you
[pen] Right. Well, I'll probably try and get some tickets for the Lowry show (if I remember to call on Monday). Anyone else interested? (In fact, won't that be around the time of the Bobpilg?)
ISIHAC real or otherwise
[rab] Subject to confirmation, ISIHACThemeNightRugby is happening on the 15th May. More news to follow :-)
15 May
(diaries it)
ISIHAC Theme Night
CROSS-POSTING
[rab, Projoy, Thos, JLE, Nik, Lib, Boolbar, Merlyn, I'm not John, LotUS, Herr Bratsche, blamelewis, Martha Farquar, Uncle Korky, ZK, st dogmael] plus all interested parties:
Just to confirm that I am assisting Bob the dog with accommodation arrangements for the ISIHACPilg. A provisional block booking for twin rooms has been made at Brownsover Hall, Rugby for Saturday 15 May at the rate of £35 per head to include full English breakfast. As Bob is close to the venue, he will be checking out the size of the private function room, after which we can firm up on numbers, etc. I have email addresses of all except JLE, Thos, ZK & Nik. I will use my hotmail address exclusively for co-ordinating these arrangements, so just begin with kedavenport@ if you wish to confirm, deny, join in, etc. Needless to say [but I'll say it anyway] Bob the dog will continue to co-ordinate the Artistic & Creative Content of the event.
Knees-up
Excellent news, Chalks. I'll pencil it in me diary immediately!
the Artistic & Creative Content
Ooooh Daahling! You make me feel so Artistic & Creative!
Err...
Mini Cheddars has been hijacked. I think someone's trying to spoil our fun - especially mine....
Bob the Amazing Artistic & Creative dog & Kim the gaylord
[Bobluvvie] Yeah - because I was cross-posting [whilst in a very non-cross mood] it seemed best to reassure the Establishmentors [who probably haven't the foggiest who I am] that as a relative newcomer, I wasn't attempting to influence that side of the event.

[Kim] I didn't believe a word of it .... :-)

Att'n flerdle
If you are still about, flerdle, what's the weather doing to you 'up there'?
It's just after midday here and sitting on 40°C (104°F to you plebs!) Dry as a bone - humidity around the 10 to 12% mark. I note that DrQ and Pittsburgh are enjoying around 8 to 10°C - perhaps all our Nth American friends can go outside and blow south westwards?
Weather
Latrobe reported 15 today. That'll change in a hurry -- it'll be back to a maximum 0 by Sunday. Snow returns, just as that f**king groundhog said. :)
toasty
Hey Dujon, am still in Bris. It's currently at least 40°C with about 40% humidity. According to a table I can't find the reference for, this feels similar to about 50°C at your humidity level. Add 8°C if you're in the sun. I'm not.
Fantastic!
Just happy to know that I'm not the only one, flerdle! My temp has reduced and the humidity increased ... another horrible night ahead I think. (sorry, nights.)
[Dr Q} Groundhog, groundhog... where do I remember that from?
*melts*
Yeah, if it doesn't cool off at night time, it's not much fun -- we've had 26-27°C minimum for most of the week.
*shivers*
flerdle/Dujon] We had frost last night. I'll email you some as an attachment.
mmmmm ice
[BtD] I'd like that; today was warmer.
Thermal excess
(flerdle) Don't know how you stand it. I record weather (accurately, I used to be in the Met Office, now an amateur) and highest I've had in 21 yrs (and probably a lot more) here on the southern edge of London is 35.9°C on 10th Aug last. The minima at the time were typically 18°C. That was quite enough, for I are rather a sweaty little bugger.
On heat
[flerdle, Rosie] After my big whinge the other day we finished up with a reasonable temperature by late afternoon, but the humidity (naturally) went up accordingly, so it was an uncomfortable night. Sunday was reasonable temperature wise and the humidity - it actually rained late afternoon and most of the night - therefore quite acceptable. I did however see reports on the news about the continuing heat in the Brisbane area so, flerdle, you have my sympathy. It really must have been quite severe as the report was mainly about the elderly and the young having problems and the incidence of ambulance/hospital attendances.
hotted up
Yes, I heard (unverified) that at least four people died - I think they would have all been elderly or sick. Reports are that the heat is over, and we'll be down under 30 soon.
But, by then I will hopefully be in another country. Unfortunately, it is even worse there. Sources say that it doesn't get much worse than this, there, except the few weeks in the middle of summer when it gets into the high 40s. With high humidity, of course.

Great.

[Rosie] For Australian weather, you might be interested in the Bureau's site: www.bom.gov.au. I've been following this handy page there; for data from the last three days click on the appropriate weather station. It samples approx 10 minutely, but maxima or minima are sometimes between those times, such as yesterday's 41.7°C at a bit before 2pm.

The other extreme.
Latrobe, Pennsylvania (at Arnold Palmer Airport) currently reports -5 with broken clouds.
MINUS FIVE !
jeeeez - that's colder than Antarctica.
[DrQ] Ah, but that's American. Are they using some weird temperature scale that only Americans understand?
[Bm] Are you suggesting that Gdansk was under American occupation during the 18th Century?
[Bm] It could be Fahrenheit, which seems to be ubiquitous in the USA apart from within scientific communities. IIRC, -5F is pretty damn cold, that is (does a quick calculation) -20.5 recurring. Brrrrrrr.
[st d] It's late summer in Antarctica.
rising temperature
Funny thing, this differing scales of temperature malarkey. Last night, in the quiz - one of the questions was "At what temperature do both Centigrade and Fahrenheit read the same?" Could I get my head around that? Could I b*ggery.

Gusset - I'm SO pleased you like my name for you. I'm equally gratified that you haven't transposed the two words :-)

Temper, temper.
I meant -5 C, but it did hit -4 F last month....now that was Too Damn Cold™.

[Chalky] -40.
E-pilg?
It's Monday night and the e-pilg transcriber's awake! :)
cold
I know I have mentioned this before on one of these sites, but I was in Finland just over a year ago, and the first ten minutes of the Finnish evening news was all about how cold it was. They were interviewing people from Siberia who were complaining about the cold. I remember calculating at the time that we were down in the range where it didn't make much difference whether we were talking F or C. (It was down to at least -31C.)
Imperialist swine
[rab] Indeed I am, sir! I wouldn't put anything past them!
double guset
Nice one in the 50 Ways, Guest Login! Should've been fiftieth, that one. Any ideas for the next lot?
Straw Poll
Ladies and gentlemen... just to conduct a straw poll, if the top-left-hand corner of this page doesn't look (roughly) like this:

Could you inform. Obliged.

poll
Well, mine looks like that little mc5 symbol in a white square on a grey background.
I came, I looked
rab]Running IE6 I see the logo is on white background.
MC5 - Whoops!
Not on my IE or Firbird browsers, rab. I confirm Inkspot's comment regarding the IE6 background.
Bum
There's so many people who aren't getting the full smoothness of this site...
Corrections
I must be going bonkers. The Firebird browser shows a smooth and 'highlighted' mc5 logo, whereas the IE shows the same image but with the white rectangular background; sorry for any confusion.
Yeah...
It's a (fairly) specific (range of) version(s) of IE that don't render transparencies in pngs. I don't like gifs and I don't know how to set the default background colour of a png. Yet.
I came, I looked too..
rab]Running IE6 I see the logo is on white background too. What was clever was your screen capture insert!
*chuckles*
[Chalky] I don't even want to think about doing that
More from the bollocks department
I discover a shiny new magazine in my pigeonhole tomorrow, in which the new university logo' (for some reason, it has a trailing apostrophe in the article) was unveiled. Sadly, I can't track down a website with it on, but it looks a bit like this MANCHESTER with the number "1824" under the gold lettering. Vertically upwards and below to the left we have (on two lines) "The University" and "of Manchester" in a sort of matt grey sans-serif. In case we needed any explanation, here it is:
It features a simple, but distinctive, typographical treatment of the word "Manchester" that acknowledges the key feature of our brand and the way in which colloquially people talk about universities. ... The positioning of the full university title alongside the word "Manchester" is also a crucial element of the overall logotype, achieving a contemporary and consistent look whilst reinfocing the University's official name.
Later, we learn that "more detailed information about the reputation-building project and how to use the visual identity will be explained in a special leaflet and website". I will of course let you know when this happens.
(apologies for the bizarre timeshifting in the first sentence)
Money for old rope
[rab] I wonder which firm of consultants trousered the (no doubt) six-or-seven-figure sum for coming up with that!
[rab] Ah, but are you in the same situation as Nottingham where it's compulsory to use the corporate identity (and to make sure you're using the latest up-to-date one -- we recently had a wavy line representing the Trent River removed) on any materials designed for outside consumption (eg talk slides)?
I presume people read about East Midlands airport which wanted to get a new name everyone could identify. It's now called Nottingham East Midlands, despite the fact it's not in Nottinghamshire and the nearest places are Derby, Loughborough and Leicester.
Airport '04?
[Twiki] Are they getting American flights in? Most of us over here think they're "Durbee", "Low-burrow", and "Lie-cester"....
PNG!
[rab] No IE (on Windows, anyway. Dunno if IE5/Mac works) supports transparent PNGs. [Dujon] There's something wrong with your Firebird if it doesn't support transparent PNGs - Firefox is the way forward, of course. There are actual usability and performance improvements post-0.8.
Amazing coincidence! Maybe
[Chalky] I just noticed your email thingy up above. I used to live opposite a girl called Karen Davenport, about whom I recall nothing except that her house had great pillars at the front. Was that you? Thought not.
Chalky!!!!!
Many happy returns of the day!
Firefox
[Nik] Surely you mean post-0.7 for the last Firebird release, since 0.8 is/was the first Firefox?
replying
[Breadmaster] I've lived in a few houses in my time and recall that at least three of them had great pillars at the front. Where was it? Oh yes - if you noticed my posting about the ISIHACThemeNightInRugby - perhaps you can give some thought as to whether you can join in? Eh? Eh? Eh?

[Tobes] thank you :-)

Yankee doodles
[Dr Q+] It constantly amazes me that Americans, most of whom speak English as their 1st language, have such trouble with English place names. Especially as so many of them are duplicated in the States. Why, do you think, this should be?
Actually Nottingham already has an airport! No scheduled flights, mainly freight and private planes, but it's there, nevertheless, and I've been there to see brother-in-law's plane (of which he owns one wing and the rear wheel, or something like that.)
[Twiki] The impression I got from the little local news I ever watch was that most people in Derby, Loughborough, Leicester, etc. (or at least the ones they bothered to interview), were generally quite p-ed off by the existence of the airport and "if Nottingham want it, they can have it" (apparently believing that the renaming would somehow magically move it somewhere where they wouldn't be under the flight path).
Woooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!
I've got tickets to the concert I've been waiting for! Yes! Sorry, just needed to share that with someone. :D :D :D
lucky you
At least someone has tickets. *sigh*
Damn Yankees (and I mean the baseball team :)
[HB] You usually find the more English place names in New England (esp. around Boston.) Another problem is that many names are Americanised so that some consonants are de-silenced and others are eliminated; e.g. around here, North Versailles is pronounced "North Ver-sales"; Baden is "Bay-den"; Cheswick is "Chez-wick"; East Liberty is "E-Slibberdee"; White Oak is "Whairda-helzat". Strange that Duquesne is still "Doo-kane", but there we are.
Other local towns here.
There is one more town here that's worth mentioning. It's called "SNPJ" -- I swear I am not making that up -- it stands for "Slovenska Narodna Podporna Jednota".
Place-name pronunciation
(Herr Bratsche) I think you're a bit hard on the Yanks. If there's anything that shows up the vagaries of language it's local pronunciation. For instance, in south London there's Streatham (pr. Strettum) and in Berkshire there's Streatley (pr. Streetly). And why are Ardingly and Hellingly (Sussex) pronounced as if they have a final "e"? Who knows? (Dr Q) Near Mrs Trellis' house is the 58-letter name we all know, but the locals all call it Llanfair PG. (All) Anyone here from Shrewsbury? I call it Shrooze-brie. How say you?
Shrewsbury
(Rosie)Us Bristolians call it Shrowz-brie. And why is Berkshire "Barkshire"?
and another thing
(Dr Q) In one of the jazz pubs I go to is a vast mural with a map of the lower Mississippi and New Orleans and there is a place on the river called D'Lo (presumably at one time De l'eau). We don't take anglicisation quite that far because we've got places such as Grosmont (N. Yorks) and Grosvenor (London) in which the "s" is silent, even though the names are several hundred years old. (Bigsmith) Yes, why, particuarly as Berkhampstead is BURK, but not Berkeley Square. Re Shrewsbury - two locals I have known call it Shrooze, for what it's worth.
Towns again
Towns in America often have names reflecting the language its settlers spoke, or occasionally that of the natives who previously occupied the area. Mind you, these don't quite explain some towns just East of Lancaster, PA....
Fertility
What a great name. I also like Zook's Corner ! In Tassie there is a Paradise and a Penguin, which I kind of liked.
le parking pour le big yellow taxi
In Saltfleet, Linconshire, there is a Paradise Car Park, with a sign reading Paradise Car Park, No Caravans or Camping. It's unpaved, but it's a parking lot all the same.
Damn French
[Rosie] Yes, we can blame the French for dropped "w", silent "s" and all kind of manglings. I say "Shroozebury", btw, but then I also say "Sisister" for "Cirencester", and I may well be wrong about that. I also insist on "Alster" for "Alcester", despite the tendency of south Brummies towards voicing every letter in the name of the main road that I live just off. Bah!
More Damn French
[Dr Q] How about "Day Moyn" for Des Moines, but "Noo Orleenz" for New Orleans (refer to Orleans, Normandy for original).
Shrewsbury
I thought it was pronounced Shrooze-brie, but it seems to be more variable than that. Near me is Caerphilly, pronouced Ku-philly, but then all the Welsh names starting Caer seem to be pronounced like that, eg Caerleon. It took me ages to get them right, and it's probably different in North Wales. I also remember a sea-side village in Fife, on the Forth, called Ainstruther, pronounced Ainster. It's really a plot to make fun of tourists!
Starter for ten
Have a go at 'Mousehole' and 'Widemouth' if you would.
Oh, and...
while we're at it 'Woolfardisworthy'.
I seem to recall...
renting a car in Dover from a place in the Maison Dieu Road, pronounced "Mason Doo" by the young woman working there. It's not just Americans...
Sense of Place
Cornish towns are fun, more for the sheer improbability of the names than for the improbability of their pronunciation. "Perranarworthal", for example, is pronounced as it is written, which is in itself surprising.

Something I read recently in one of Bill Bryson's books (Made In America) was that the spelling placenames was regularised by a geographical names board. One of their more Philistinic acts was to say that all place names pronounced with the suffix "-burg" or "-boro" should be spelt that wayh exactly, and none of this confusing "-burgh" or "-borough" nonsense ("Pittsburgh" was given an explicit exemption).

Yay!
Posting from IE on WinXP now, and I note my little fiddle has fixed the PNG problem. More in 'Notes'...
(IE users should request a full reload of this page to get things looking - hopefully - right)
Yep, seems to work from here.
Da 'Burgh!
[Dunx] The Scottish Pittsburghers of the late 19th Century (notably Andrew Carnegie) decided to "Scottify" the city by adding the trailing "h". It looks nicer to me, and it differentiates us from Pittsburg, Kansas.
Cornish towns
I had a bit of a laugh the first time I saw the town "Feock". ;)
Logo
Yup!
Last person to know because I'm in such a hurry...
Many Happy Returns, Chalky. *tips hat*
logo
Yep, its all grey now! Not that I really noticed before..
pronunciation
And then of course there's Loogabarooga! Bruce. Ah, bringing us to the ever-irritating River Nene. We in the valley always said "Nenn", but then I heard Stephen Fry calling it "Neen" so now I don't know what to think!
Cornish names, etc
(rab) Mousehole rhymes with tousle, as in hair, but I don't know about the other two you mention. I do know that Fowey is Foy, more or less. But I'm fascinated by Probus. Sounds disgusting. (ZK) If you called it Nenn, then that's it, despite the estimable Mr Fry. Another variation on the burg, burgh, borough ending is of course Middlesbrough.
g'day
Did I say Loogabarooga? I meant Loughborough. There's fun.
Changing the subject: Would other posters be interested in having some sort of link to either their own sites or to a central site of some sort? This of course would depend on rab's willingness to provide such a link.
I am only thinking of something basic. For instance, I am building a small (free site) where I can post my details and, eventually, a few pictures of the area in which I live. At this point in time it is very, very ordinary (and may stay the same!) see here. It's amazing how many people I meet on the Internet - usually from places far and wide - who are genuinely interested to see what it looks like where I live. I too have that interest (e.g. I'd love to see Chalky's view of "The Spire", Dr Q's surroundings in Pittsburgh and suchlike.)
Without wishing to rake over dead coals, there was such a link on the now defunct 'Pants' site and, whilst many did not choose to contribute, it was still quite interesting.
Silly or just stupid?
sounds like a plan! :) rab?
catching up ....
[Googol] Cheers!
[Dujon] Not silly at all. I'm interminably curious about others' home environments :-).
[ZK] As you expressed an interest, have you made a decision on the Rugbypilg yet? Sounds as though you're not that far away. So far there are 3 girlies who hope to be there - Lib (wahay), pen (wahay) and me. My email address is further up this page, probably now in the 'expose more' bit.
Aaaw
I've just been back-reading. I was rather fond of my white square. It was geometrically sound and neat and artistically separate. Was it never meant to look that way?
pilg
[Chalky] I'm probably free on the date, but I've just splashed out a tad on some concert tickets so I'm not sure I can afford to go. Can I answer that question a few days into March (when I get money)? Plus, what is required of said pilg? I'm not quite sure I'm up to spontaneous wit (is that tautology?) when surrounded by my elders.
spontaneous wit
The real ISIHAC is not really spontaneous wit!
I had originally planned for there to be teams that will play - but I now think it would best to make it open to contributions from all although there will still be at least 1 compare (a Humph) to move thing along and hopefully a JLE on piano. The evening is going to be one of daft parlour games that all who wish to can prepare for. I'll be letting everyone know what all the games are before the event - if you want to take part in a particular game - great, if not just enjoy other peoples contributions. For example, one of the games I have in mind is "New Definitions for Old Words". If you come up with any ideas, write them down and bring them to the event. A full list of games will be published soon.
Parsons Knows
*wonders if JLE's brushing up on his rendition of the Minute Waltz.*
Logi Beard
[ZK] No, the logo was never meant to be that way... also the Expose buttons looked rather silly enclosed in a white square.

Um... linkages. Yes, in principle, a great idea. I've been wanting to construct a sort of 'profiles' section that is self-maintaining, which means a fair bit of programming at the outset (consults diary, balks at fact I'm in a show next week which is going to be very tiring) but hopefully thereafter will require no effort from me whatsoever...

PS Widemouth = "Wid-mooth', Woolfardisworthy = 'Woolsery'.
Show man
rab] Prey what is your show?
Prey? Pray?
[Btd] rab's entered the Cheshire's biggest marrow competition owing to a shortage of marrows.
Marrow entry
[Projoy] Better than the other way round...

[Bob] Part of the band for Princess Ida, being done by this motley crew. It's very tiddly-pom-pom type stuff.

Hamish and Dougal
Did anyone catch "You'll Have Had Your Tea?" last night? Best bit was Mrs Naughtie's "cup of tea.....a merangue?"....
just my cup of tea
[B'smith] Darn - missed it. That was the first of the new series, but it's been scheduled rather late in the evening [11.15 pm?]. We've been in the audience for the recordings of this series so far. In fact I've got 3 tickets for Sunday evening's recording which will be the last 2 of the series. Don't know if I'll be able to make it, though, so if someone in the London area has a burning desire to go [the Cochrane Theatre, Holborn] do shout now.
.
Bugger! I haven't haed me tea.

[Dujon] My website is mustela.phyast.pitt.edu.
tiddly-pom-pom
Projoy] And I thought he was just pleased to see me.
rab] I didn't know Gilbert and Sulivan orchestrated the Kazoo.
both] ;o)
The voice of Pittsburgh
(Dr Q) Just tuned in to your blog and looked at the piccies. That river looks a bit lively - do you get floods? Over here even a 15-mile piddle like the Darent can stray where it didn' oughta, but in 1996 it dried up almost completely. Your voice doesn't sound quite as American as I had imagined, and very laid back. Is that normal for Pennsylvania? Don't be modest.
"Come and meet, those dancing feet, on the avenue I'm taking you to: Forty Second Street!"
The matinee was a tad disastrous, but today is our first complete performance, with a proper audience and (hopefully) propr sound and lighting. (Save me!) Wish me luck! Or don't, I suppose: I just needed to tell someone!
Floods? Indeed!
[Rosie] That's the Youghiogheny (pr. "Yock-o-gain-ee", or just "Yock"). That one floods from time to time, and it has flooded twice this winter due to ice jams and/or rapidly melting snow. Same goes for the three rivers in Pittsburgh; The Ohio, The Allegheny, and The Monongahela ("Mun-on-ga-hay-la", or just "Mon"). If you want a look at them, go to one of our local TV station's webcams from high atop Mount Washington. Looking at the fountain at the Point (which is obviously off), the Allegheny is on the left, the Mon on the right, and they combine into the Ohio at the bottom.
To answer your next question -- the fountain has only been flooded once that I can remember (1996, I think).
musical theatricals
[Googol] Break a leg! What part are you playing? Or are you an amazing balancing tap dancer? Interesting how many MCers are involved in productions one way or the other. Our society does two a year, the Spring one usually a more traditional or light opera production, hence HMS Pinafore in May. At Christmas we're doing 'Annie'.
Pat Denning "Hello kid."
[Chalky] Oooh, funky: my mother's mother is trying to get me to join a society. Is it good fun? What parts have you played?
snowy weather..
Just to make all you antipodeans jealous, it's been snowing all afternoon in Cardiff, and anyone who lives north of Pontypridd was sent home at about 3pm because of weather warnings. BRRRR! The forecast is for -6 on Monday, sextuple BRRR!
"THe weather outside is frightful..."
Try again
[Snorgs] Same here over the bridge in christmas card South Glos, though the bastards' won't let us go home.
bright and beautiful
Stratford - (20 miles south of B'ham, midlands, UK) 17.45. Bright and clear. Not even a breeze. Chickens happy.
winter wonderland
Salisbury GMT 1803 - has been snowing for an hour or so - it's settling.
Tuh!
[rab] Why is it the University I came to has to be possibly the only one in the country without a Gilberty & Sullivan society? Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
Sites
[Dr Q] Great photographs! Thanks for that. I like your sound blog too. :-) It looks as though you live in a nice green area, lots of trees and houses with yards!

[rab] Your comments are noted. I was only thinking of a simple link page to which posters might submit their sites through either yourself or a trusted soul (to avoid the obvious).

Cardiff
[Snorgle] What's your forecast for Sunday? Whilst I cannot make it I've about 30,000 like minded souls heading your way and hope like mad that the weather isn't going to spoil the day!
pissed off
I dunno - a mere six inches of snow that freezes and it's bleedin chaos here. Most of the roads into Salisbury were blocked last night due to some accident or the other. It took Mr C four hours to return from Bath [usually 40 mins]. This morning? All the schools are closed because 'the conditions are too dangerous for the children'. So all the parents have to completely re-schedule their working day and what are the dear little things doing? Playing out in the .. erm .. dangerous conditions. I was planning to do my party shopping this afternoon so I fully expect all the supermarkets to have run out of food.* mutter mutter *
snow, what snow?
Chalky]In north Wiltshire there is nothing not a flake, you could always move to Swindon, very good access to Bath.
Shows
On the subject of shows I last night had a dream in which there was a Newsnight piece on Michael Howard accompanied by a tune from Projoy and Thos's Dracula show... Nurse!
talking of Thos .....
HAPPY BIRTHDAY *hugs*
weather thos
Happy Birthday!

Weather for Sunday is sunny, max 8 degrees celsius, but northerly winds so it'll probably feel colder. The nights are clear and much colder - several degrees below zero. The snow in Cardiff melted, mostly by last evening, although it usually does. Cold but lovely and sunny today!

Thanks, snorgle! Great news.
the undead
rab] That was no dream...
more plain text
Whilst I carry on with the cut and paste and player commentary, this weeks Celebrity MC as text only. It is always sad news when a player pulls out, but this week we lost two, as both Blob and boolbar left for that great red carpet on platform one.
Missed cues, ruined the dance, lost my voice: thank goodness there's just one more night to go...
So tired...so embarressed: HIDE ME!
Whoops!
[Inkspot] What's celebrity MC?
[Googol] Handy eh? This internet malarkey when you've lost yer voice. Hope all goes well for your last night. As for Celebrity MC - just follow the link and work it out :-)
Rugby Ball
Today I got to look over Brownsover Hall, the venue for the ISIHAC pilg. And I'm pleased. It is lovely! We have the use of the study (as long as Colnel Mustard doesn't get there first).
'Colonel'
Obviously
more shares
Googolplex]Celebrity MC is a league of fellow MC players who have invested on the BBC celebrity stock exchange 'Celebdaq'. Once a portfolio has been created, the ID is posted here and is added as soon as possible, the rest is upto the hamsters at daq towers. It is for fun but can be frustrating to keep going each week. Each player develops their own strategy, for my part I have two accounts one day trading the other in long term blue chip of David Beckham. My part is just to gather the results from the Friday payout, cut and paste over the weekend and add a bit of commentary, usually posting here on Monday night before I hop over to MCiOS e-pilg. If you wish to have a join, it will be a pleasure to welcome you aboard. (I have a feeling that I'm going to be kneecapped on Monday again)
Bransabre Ball
I wanno go!!!!!
Public Service Announcement
Any ladies in the GMT timezone should be aware they have only one hour remaining to propose. Go on - you know you want to!
[Chalky and Snorgle] Thank you very much! [Rab] Which tune?
daffodils
*Waves warm and happy St. David's Day greeting to all*
Bolton Wanderers
Commiserations to Dujon on Sunday's result. It was however a very good game.
Bolton Wanderers
As a Wanderers fan I was considerably annoyed at the constant references to Bolton "not having won anything since 1958". Does the Sherpa Van Trophy count for nothing!??! Didn't see the game 'cos I have no Sky dish and surprisingly it was NOT live on Italian telly. Was consequently glued to the PC listening to the 5 Live stream - my girlfriend was concerned at my frequent yelling and table-bashing. We'd have beaten United, Liverpool, or the Arse. We have a tendency to let the lesser clubs get the better of us. Sam is God (but shouldn't really be criticising the referee - it's not nice to mock the afflicted). The Wanderers will return!
ring zone
[rab] So did you get your proposal? Is that what your prompt was for? I ask only because I can't believe you would believe that there's only one day in every four years when a woman is permitted to propose to a man...
A pocket full of posers
[pen] That's what I've been told :) Though in my book, a woman can propose any time she likes.
dead ringer
[right] Coming right up... mwahahahaah!
Switch brain to 'on'
That should have been addressed to [rab]... doh!
I accept!
Dang!
Too late! It's March 1st and now you have to marry a daffodil instead!
Alive, but too tired to tell anyone...
[Chalky] Thanks, the second two performances went markedly better than the first: we needed more dress rehearsals really. Luckily, the event was recorded on video, so we'll be able to see what went wrong and where. *cringe*
Yackydah
So wots the epilg dress code tonight? Welsh?
tonight in the chatroom
[Btd] Yep, it's Welsh alright. See you in there.
Aendydd it is!
I Say, Porter
Can't talk here, I'll be howled down. Drop in and have a chat sometime.
Bigsmith
Thanks. :-(
(Dr Q) Nid oes dim o "x" yng Ngymraeg. There is no "x" in Welsh.
[Dr Q] Whilst Rosie is correct, there is a consonant which substitues for 'x' but which is reserved for the Elders (and is oft referred to as a 'gift from the faeries'); they clack their false teeth! .... Sorry, just feeling frivolous.
Bloody keyboard!
s/substitues/substitutes
Cymraeg
Also no "J", "K", "Q", "V" or "Z". BUT - "CH", "DD", "FF", "LL", "NG", "RH", "TH" and one other digraph (can't remember which) all count, so Welsh has a 28-letter alphabet.
chocolate cake
Somehow my confused computer managed to submit that without me noticing. It really has a mind of its own.
mmmm...chocolate
Maybe you did it telekinetically? Are you thinking of chocolate cake now?
mmmmm
[snorgle] Now you come to mention it, yes
Cymraeg eto
(Herr Bratsche) It's "PH" you're after. It only occurs as a mutation, i.e. a changed beginning to a word, which would otherwise start with "P". In my last post I left out an "h" in Nghymraeg, another mutation, as you can see. Many North Walians cannot pronounce the "zh" sound in words like "decision". It comes out as "sh".
Dressed for success
Had our dress rehearsal last night (hence absence from epilg). We're hoping that the age-old adage of "Crap dress rehearsal, good first night" holds true. For some reason, the only bit that got practiced twice was the bows. Something which I find to even practice once a little offensive... *grumble - bloody thesps - mutter*
sniped !
Well I suppose it was fair enough because the bid was higher than mine, but it was at £205 with 10 minutes to go, and I had down £275 as my max bid and it ended at £277 - bid placed 15 seconds before the end. Auction was for THIS, with normal and w/a lens I wanted it. With all my being. Oh yes. :o(
Bob le chien will be happy to know that I am considering coming along to the w/e pilghotel thing and am considering bringing a camera to take a photograph of us all.
So that's where you were....
[rab] with a nod to St David there was a Welsh flavour about the pilg last night ... and I was SO looking forward to your presence as a WelshRabbit ...

[std] We'll all be happy to know that you may be coming to the ISIHACThemeNightInRugby :-) You wish to reserve a single room?

fun and frolics in Rugby
[Chalky] Unfortunately I've taken the executive decision not to come as I think I need to sort my life out a tad. But I'd love to hear about it!
[ZK] OK :-)
Run rabbit
[Chalky] I'm sure I would have driven you hopping mad.
[rab] you'd never do that :-) ... I am much more likely to feel uneasy when nattering alongside *mystery* people who aren't particularly inclined to reveal who they are, Morniverse-wise. It probably doesn't bother anyone else :-(
std] *Happy*
Chalky] Me too, but only slightly. The fun is in the guessing. But who was that mysterious Bob the Dolgellau?
Rugby
Ha, so perhaps I might.
bobshappiness
BtD] Its only a thinking about it. I couldn;'t possibly commit that far ahead ;o0. I don't even know when it is ! ZK] Do you not think a weekend surrounded by people all talking nonsense could possibly help inspire you to sorting out your life ?
ISIHAC Theme Night In Rugby
[st d] Saturday 15 May - just the one night. In my role as Bob the dog's assistant - I booked the venue and reserved a block of rooms. Hopefully a final call on numbers won't be necessary for some time [to date we have about 12 definites and 10 possibles]
std] Ooh you tease!
Bool] :o)
Chalky] I'm not at home at the moment, and I don't have your email address, can you make sure that 'The Study' is booked in our name too? And how did the birthday party go?
ISIHaCluedo
[Bob] 'The Study' is now booked - along with the candlestick, the dagger and the lead piping [I'll bring the rope]. We should have access to the Library [via the secret passage] and the Lounge, Dining Room and Conservatory. I hope to be travelling with Miss Scarlett.
It's got me thinking ... the gothic mansion, the study ... there just has to be a game in this. I shall work on it :-)
Miss Scarlet
..in the bedroom, with the lights on.
North Walians
[Rosie] Er. Most North Walians I know/have met while living and visiting there for more than 10 years can say 'decisions' with a zh. (I know, because I asked them. All of them)
On the other hand, most North Walians I've known/met can't speak Welsh (fluently), so eh.
North Walians
(Nik) That's the reason then, isn't it? I only said "many" North Walians, not all of them, and by implication it would be the Welsh speakers, obviously.
Scarletting
[st dog] !
pen
oops ! sorry. Didn't realise Miss Scarlet was actually a PERSON, i thought she was just a platonic ideal.
Didn't sound particularly Platonic to me...
All I put was an exclamation mark...
Ida thought so.
Feeling really knackered now, and we've only done two show nights (three more, plus a matinee to go). Am becoming possessed by offensively catchy G&S tunes *do doooo di -- [camp pause] -- plonk -- [another marquee of a pause] -- ya-da-da-da-da, di-ya-da-da-da-da-da-da, di-ya-da-da-da-da-di-ya-di-da -- di - plong plong -- di - plong plong -- ya-di-da-di-daaaaa, continues for 2½hours*. I manage to flush this out before going to sleep by putting on a CD of something... else, but then wake up at 5am with *di-plong-i-plong-i-plonk, di-plong-i-plong-i-plonk* rattling in my head. Arrrrgh!!!

Anyway, quality update... the first night was a little chaotic. Last night we had a good audience, and having managed to get through the ouverture without a cock-up, the orchestra had a great night. Slight signs of fatigue showing in some of the leads but hopefully they'll have had a good night's sleep and we'll have a top show tonight. I hope so, since it's the night that some of my friends are going...

Scardy-cat
Have I scared everyone off?
do doooo di -- [camp pause] -- plonk -- [another marquee of a pause] -- ya-da-da-da-da, di-ya-da-da-da-da-da-da, di-ya-da-da-da-da-di-ya-di-da -- di - plong plong -- di - plong plong -- ya-di-da-di-daaaaa, continues for 2½hours
Which G&S is that? Years ago dad did the sound for a G&S production. He had to time a piece of recorded cello so that it matched the actress playing a dummy cello. It went da-da-da-da-da da daaaaa [camp pause] dar dar da-da-daaaa [another marquee of a pause] da [pause] da [pause] da [pause] da-de-dadada-da-da-da-daaaaaaah. I wonder if it was the same show?
Just a thought...
Is there a game in this?
Name this classic TV sit-com theme tune...
Rink-dink-eedinkydink, Rink-dink-eedinkydinky dink dink der, (Boo-ba-boo-berr)...?
[camp pause]
[BtD] Well, you're thinking of Patience. I'm guessing rab's talking about Princess Ida. Bob, is that Steptoe and Son or have I had too much Lucozade? Actually, I can hear the tune in my head but I don't know what show it belongs to.
Oooh! The pineapple and courgette might be working . . . .
pinafore's ahoy
[rab] Scared everybody off?? Ya must be joking.
I've just got back from a Pinafore rehearsal ... Da-da-DAH-dada-da-dah-dah, da-da-DAH-dada-dah-da-da, da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-DA-da-da-da-da - [Never Mind the Why & Wherefore] and I can't get it out of my head. Not much in the way of camp pauses and marqueeses but an awful lot of mannered repetitiony bits ... "for that gallant captain's daughter ... for that gallant captain's daughter....and a Lord who rules the water ... and a Lord who rules the water ... "
Pineapple and courgette pudding
ZK] Yes, you win the star prize! Too easy really...
Another easy one:
Yinky plinky plink-plink plonk. (pause) Plinky plink plonk, donk donk dinky dink donk...
Ooh
Did I get the G&S right or the TV choon?
[Boolbar] Around the last couple of times I've posted you've piped up with something cryptic. Is it all coincidence and am I imagining it or are you being cryptic for reasons we're meant to understand?
As Bob the dog seems to have done, in fact (understood).
I wish you could see me at my computer going "Yinky plinky plink-plink plonk. (pause) Plinky plink plonk, donk donk dinky dink donk.." over and over again :)
yinkyplinky plonking out loud
[ZK] same here :-)
[Bob] Dad's Army?
getting it wrong
[Bob] nah ... can't be Dad's Army ...'cause that goes Whoo-doo-doo-dooh-dooh-doodoo-doodoo-Hitler!
plinky
[Chalky] The key's obviously somewhere in the "dinky dink donk," but it's not coming to me.
And it's not Eastenders cos there aren't enough pauses...
Ooh (again)
You know, I've just noticed something. The top 10 shortlist for best british sitcom are the ones that traditionally use(d) incidental music rather than pop songs. *makes a mental note and goes on to write a smash hit*
Whoo-doo-doo-dooh-dooh-doodoo-doodoo-Hitler!
Chalky] That had me spluttering into my fizzy water!
ZK] Boolbar is referring to a conversation I was having with him by email. He has a doglet that has a tendency to (SENSITIVE PEOPLE PLEASE AVERT YOUR EYES) eat its own poo. Apparently, if you feed the dog pineapple and courgette it stops doing this.
Re the tune - it is Eastenders - not from a sitcom(?!). Probably one of the most easily recognisable and yet irritating pieces of TV intro music ever. Apart from The Bill. Anyone fancy having a go at Doobeedooing that one?
Can I have the bill please
The Bill:
Nick! [pause] Nick nicky nick nicky ner-ner-ner nick [breath] ner-ner nick nicky nick...
Here is another police one. Ner-ner-ner, ner-ner ner ner-ner, ner-ner-ner, ner-ner ner ner...
I got Steptoe, but I've never heard a single episode of The Bill or Eastenders. So here's one that no-one else is likely to have heard, except for gil, if he's reading here. A long-running series in its day.

Dee dee dee, di-dee, di-dee dee dee,
Dee dee dee, di-dee dee deeee,
Dee dee dee, di-dee, di-dee dee dee dee,
Dee dee dee, di-dee dee deeee.

And yes, how about creating a new game for this?

Oops
That should be:

Dee dee dee, di-dee, di-dee dee,
Dee dee dee, di-dee dee deeee,
Dee dee dee, di-dee, di-dee dee dee dee,
Dee dee dee, di-dee dee deeee.

Bob's ner ner de ner ner
[Bob] That's Z Cars yes?
[Raak] I need to have a little dee-di-dee to myself before I can hazard a guess at yours. Am intrigued to know why only gil might know that [meaning I'm really fishing for a clue]
New game? Name That Tune? Can we kill Mrs Trellis?
Raak's dee dee
ooops - hit the enter too early
erm ... Is that Z Cars aswell?
Z
Z cars indeed for me and I think for Raak too. New game on the wayhey!
Beefy
The cpu fan in the server has been sounding increasingly self-destructive over the last couple of weeks. [waffle] The machine will be taken down for a bit, when I get the new one or it pre-emptively keels over.
Ida thought so again.
[ZK] Congrats on Ida, though I did leave at least one or two big clues... Meanwhile I'm slightly surprised, but pleased, to see what this show has spawned. *oof headache* Last night's show was not top notch, and given that we all went on the piss afterwards (including the traditional boat race - oh yes, I really did need to down that pint) tonight could be very interesting. We're going to try a gauche orchestra arrangement tonight, so that the cello "section" won't have its back to the stage... what this means in real terms is I get to feast my eyes on lots of eighteen year olds in tights and short skirts. Yay!
Z-Cars
[Btd, Chalky] Yes, didn't notice Btd had done it. I didn't think there were that many of us here old enough to remember Z-cars, unless there's been a rerun or revival in recent years.
classics
[Raak] I remember it well, probably because as a child I lived in Germany with no TV so when we came home 'on leave, I hungrily absorbed any British TV programme whatever its quality. It's all sort of crystallised in my consciousness. Although, having said that, there's loads of stuff I missed. My other half, who is a few years younger than I, can remember EVERY kids TV programme AND its theme tune. He is much in demand for music quizzes and suchlike.
Old!?!
Raak] I'm only (very) late thirties. I remember Pogles Wood in black and white, Patrick Troughton as Dr Who, The Wooden-Tops, Robinson Crusoe every summer holiday, the Singing Ringing Tree...
[Chalky, Btd] Late 40's here. I always think of Z-Cars as being 60s, although it must have gone well into the 70's, but I more or less stopped watching TV about then, except for stuff I actually wanted to see.
Telly
[Bob the dog] I'm right on your wavelength, and wouldd add Tales From the Riverbank with Hammy the Hamster, and NEW episodes of Dads Army!
".....I get to feast my eyes on lots of eighteen year olds in tights and short skirts. Yay! "
[Rab] ..and that's just the blokes!!
18
rab] you are a lucky lucky man.
[Chalky, Btd, Raak] Mid-thirties, so I'm very jealous of anyone who can remember watching Pat Troughton in Doctor Who on original transmission. Other childhood memories include Rentaghost, Ivor the Engine, Mary Mungo and Midge, Hector's House, Noggin the Nog, The Sweeney, Blake's Seven and Swap Shop. I am also proud/sad (delete as applicable) to be able to recite the preambles to Hong Kong Phooey and Camberwick Green, and the closing words to Bagpuss.
42 ...
... is the answer. Old enough to remember 2nd Doctor clearly, 1st Doctor vaguely. Miss "Magic Roundabout" very much indeed.
[UK] We appear to share a brain, or at least that part of it relating to childhood reminiscences.
Everything goes shimmery
I was born the year before the Beatles released Revolver. I remember an article on the radio about them splitting although it didn't make much sense at the time. We had a hippy lodger who used to play me Ummagumma by Pink Floyd when he was babysitting and I couldn't sleep. I used to get tuppence ha'penny pocket money when I was 5 - enough for a bag of Walkers Crisps.
household appliances
....moving on from telly to other things sold by Curry's. Does anyone have any opinions as to what makes a *good* gas oven? Or does anyone have a particularly favourite fridge? I need to buy this type of thing and haven't a clue where to start!
more Dujon
Musically I was born in the year Duane Eddy released Peter Gunn, not that I remember it except a couple of years ago someone gave me a copy of the 45.

Breaking News!!! Dujon is No1!! a great result not seen since august last year, *throws several tubs of confetti into the air.*

something broke?
rab]There should be two links in the last post but the on for 15 august does not appear.
White goods
Lib] Go for the most expensive brand you can afford - Bosch is my favourite - you get far better customer support if things go wrong. Never buy because of add-on features you'll never use. Go for the lowest energy rating possible (A is the best). Never take subscribe to add on insurance - most appliances are covered for two years regardless. Shop around - and don't be scared to ask for a best price. Happy shopping!
Dixons Group plc
[Lib] You can probably get a fridge better than you'd expect, for less than you'd expect, by hunting around the sole-proprietors and small chains. I much prefer not shovelling my cash at the known retail brands these days - same or less money, same or better service. And fighting the power, man. Admittedly, it's not so time-consuming to hunt through the small local types when the town and outlyings of Northwich aren't much bigger than <pick a sub-area of a sub-region of Manchester>. The theory that because Dixons Group is huge you get better post-sales service is invalid - Dixons has one of the worst reputations, and it's major competitors (ie Comet and Argos) aren't a great deal better. Sorry if I'm repeating common knowledge - it's always worth repeating.
Daq & missing link
Thanks all for letting me climb to the top once more - I thought it would never happen. ... ;-)
[Inkspot] you typed 'hef' instead of 'href' in the missing link.
Children's TV and other things
I was already nearly 16 (1958) before we had a telly, a thing the size of a wardrobe with a screen of several square inches, so I never watched kids' TV; just never been part of my life. (Dujon) Congrats on being top of the whatever-it-is; I don't do that one. I see from my weather browsing that eastern Oz is now very sweaty indeed, but not for long, probably. Take it easy, mate, you're not as young as you used to be, now, are you, goo' boy? (All) If you've absolutely nothing to do next Wednesday evening and are within a gnat's crotchet of Dartford, come along to the Mick Jagger Centre. Our band (Force Ten) are playing, starting 8 pm. A mixture of jazz, swing, funk, Glenn Miller-type stuff plus a very good female singer. Cost you £8, some of which will land up in my back pocket, I hope. Some tickets left, so I'm told. Hmm!
[BtD and Nik] Thanks for your words of wisdom. House purchase is delayed (grrr) so I won't be buying for a while (I've already got a sofa being delivered, which is kinda problematic as I've got nowhere to put it). Why is housebuying so infuriating?!?
Don't I know it - buying the place that now contains angrycake.com took almost *six months* after having my offer accepted. I'd had a cooker, fridge/freezer and bed bought and sat in warehouses for most of that time, having somewhat foolishly thought it'd only take the few weeks I was told it would take.
For Chalky, 'cos I now she'll know what I mean.
I just missed (well most of) 'That's Entertainment' on the local television. Unfortuanately it was on in opposition to the local F1 race in Melbourne - another one of my weaknesses (that's the cars, not Melbourne). Why can't the TV stations advertise that sort of stuff instead of some 'Z' grade movie in prime-time? I AM UPSET. I know, my fault; but if I'd realised I would have recorded the damn thing, as I don't have a copy filed away. *sobs - goes misty eyed after seeing the last 30 minutes and leaves with the full intent of getting rotten.*
The 'k' key on my keyboard, or perhaps my fingers, is/are in trouble.
All right - it's the misty eyes. ;-(
seeing red
Dujon]The race was repeated here this afternoon, I had high hopes fo Mark Webber, but only to be dashed again by reliability of the Jaguar. I would like to see him replace Montoya in the Williams. Would he beat his prospective team mate the petulant Ralf Schumacher? yes! without a doubt.
Green with envy
[Inkspot] To be honest (re Webber) I don't know. The media here tends to be so biased towards anyone with an Australian connection that it's hard to pick the facts from the hyperbole. No doubt he's a good driver, otherwise Jaguar would not be using him (apart from the money which he may have brought with him!), but it's an interesting thought.
The 'daq
Yay! I've been millionaired again!
[Dujon/Inkspot] Webber is indeed a top talent, with a great ability for doing good things with less than the best equipment. Our post race pub discussion on Sunday lunchtime centred around the (not totally unlikely) possibility of a Williams dream team in 2005 with Webber and our own Jenson Button on board.
Plinkaplonka
Managed to wake up without Princess Ida in my head this morning, so my sanity may shortly be restored (well, whatever sanity I had to begin with, anyway). The last night was fun, what with the substitution of a packet of cigars for some handcuffs, some banter betwixt lead and orchestra, and a plan to give the MD a brown-trousers moment in the last number which came off beautifully...

Oof! Back to work...

A wandering minstrel I
I'm not going to be available to come to the e-pilg tonight - but how about a Gilbert and Sulivan theme..?
Minstrel in the gallery.
Me Cryptic? No. But the pelican has no tomatoes.
Chocs away!
Bool] I think our cryptic postings have scared everyone off. Good job I didn't mention the bonfire that our neighbours are having in their swimming pool (no joke). The smoke is making the chickens sneeze!
Hello everyone, it seems I can get into MC5 at last. Whether this is just temporary or not I don't know!
**waves at darren**
Hooray! Can you email me another traceroute output please?
Well, I'm still here but paradoxically "tracert" now says "Destination net unreachable" after the first entry!
it's quiet..
Slow week in the morniverse. **whistles eerily**
*coughs*
*munches crisps noisily*
Did anyone watch the programme last night about the crisp industry?
*Thinks* I've got no telly and I'm on a diet and I was working last night.
Wish I had. Was it good?
crispology
[Btd] Well if you were working, why would you need a telly? It was OK. Just surprising how much I knew about crisps. I eat more than I should, but then I don't eat other stuff... much.
A Cross-Post By Any Other Name Would Still Be As Annoying
Cross-posted from Orange, but... a small announcement - White Rose MC is, at last, online. This is a version of the York/!York archive, rejigged to use the same technology as Orange MC (hence my desire to give it a different name).

Enjoy!

Server maintenance.
...and, again, reeeeee-lax. The new fan is much less painful to listen to.
Coo
[Dunx] Wow. I'll ungrey the York link Sometime Real Soon Now (i.e. when I can work out how out-of-synch the live version is with the dev version, and whether applying all updates would break anything. Yes I do use CVS, no I don't understand it and hence use is propery).
While of mean
Any chance of a similar stunt being pulled for the Pants archives?
White Rose
Dunx] You are a hero!
Dead Pants
[rab] Not by me, no - I don't believe there was any backup of the Pants archives.
Pants archive
Pardon me for dropping in here: but, Dunx: if you were so inclined, you could find the archive.org record of Pants MC (it's surprisingly extensive) and manually pinch everything they've got there. I've already got the Lock Cup matches and a few others of interest: I'm slowly building up to getting the lot before archive.org crashes or gets taken down by an army of ravening copyright solicitors, but it is an option. If we really really really really really badly want the archive to be taken and re-hosted, that is.
Workflow
[Angus] I feel that Dunx might already have enough on his plate... but if you do have all the games in a reasonable format there could be scope for archiving it appropriately.
Am I alone in believing that NOT all games need be archived? Only those which are *of particular distinction*, whether in quality, style or genre.
more tacky daq docs
Aplologies to all at Celebrity Monington Crescent, somehow moreteaplease regained No1 without trying. Last Friday after I had sold all my shares I reinvested them in Prince Charles, if was he in the news I don't remember seeing him anywhere? and he paid out a handsome 5.57 a share! So I'll let them ride for another week and see what happens.
Super duper new tunes!!
My halfwit band have some new tunes for you to listen to. So when you have five mins, toddle along to http://www.papalazarus.com and have a listen. Why not leave some nutty inane message on the guest book while your there? Ok cheap plug well n truly over......ftangftang......wibble
Archival Questions
[JLE] Well... possibly. The problems are that (1) someone has to go through all the games to make a judgement on which are or are not worthy; and (2) you're relying on just that person's judgement. Even if there were a panel of judges, you would be requiring that their judgement be accurate for all time.

From an archaeological point of view, a lot of the most interesting artifacts and documents are the ones that people thought weren't worth keeping at the time. If all that is kept is the exceptional, then the context for those exceptions is lost.

So, possibly, but in my judgement, no.

archivism
[Dunx, JLE] I'm with Dunx on this one. Many's the time I've searched through the archives loking for a particular post of mine or someone else's. I'm afraid I have a habit of using these sites as a sort of highly social blog, and they're one of the few ways I can remind myself of what I was thinking about and preoccupied with at particular times, and when certain events happened. Players' reactions to Sep 11th are particularly interesting to look back on from this distance, particularly in locations other than the chat game, where life proceeded as normal within less than hours. Future historians might look at the pages and say "What were these people thinking? Joking and limericking away before the dust had even settled on such a huge historical event!".
gallows humour
[Projoy] I didn't realise these boards went back that far - where's all that then? curiosity declared
[Projoy] Well, I haven't seen a single comment throughout any of the Morniverse about the Spain bombings, so I don't see why there should have been so many about the ones in America either. I think our sense of importance is greatly warped by our peculiar belief that what happens in America is more important than what happens elsewhere.
Now, the verdict on Betsygate - that's what I call important!
Betsygate?
You mean you haven't been following it with bated breath?
Madrid
I think everyone is horrified. And also very aware that the target could so easily have been here.
[Breadmaster] Oh, Betsygate, I do beg your pardon!
[BM] We don't really know the significance of the Madrid attacks yet, which makes them at present equivalent to the earthquake in Bam. But the significance and symbolism of the 11 Sept attacks were immediately obvious and pretty much unignorable. And arguably what happens in America (at least in some contexts) is more important in terms of international repercussions than what happens here, so the perception is not entirely arbitrary. [ZK] If you're interested in the reaction to Sep 11th, you can see it breaking here. CdM and I were midway through a debate on insurance when Néa was the first person to react, ahead of PaulWay hearing the news. What's really interesting in retrospect is how Drewsxpa provides future MC historians with an aside on the event for context - but of course, the date and the event is now burned on everyone's memory, and we need no such thing.
What you might need context for, on the other hand, is the "yipee" comment on 13 September by "Iain Duncan-Hague". You may recall that a man with a similar name was elected Conservative leader on that date. You don't? Oh, well, hard to blame you.
Archives
There's a fair few archives we may never see again: Beer Powered Mornington Crescent Frenzy is gone for good, I believe, as is Huxley's rather stylish, but short-lived server. Delphi remains in limbo, too.
[Projoy] Thankyou. I haven't quite read all of it, but will do so at my leisure. As to the more recent attacks (in Spain, obviously) I suspect no-one has said a lot because, callous as it sounds, we've sadly seen this all before, with my sincerest apologies to whoever that statement offends (including me). I was, however, visibly appalled when I was following the news on TV on Friday (I didn't quite grasp the scale via the internet on Thursday), so it's not as though I'm not affected. I am. But what is there left to say? Aside from that, watching those parades yesterday, I was overwhlemed by one particular thought - how proud I would be to be Spanish right now.
Madrid
I was horribly shocked - but it still isn't certain who actually perpetrated the attacks. So we've been sidetracked into thinking it may have been ETA, rather than Al-Quaeda. There was also the way that passenger planes were hijacked and crashed into the towers, which seemed to make it even worse, somehow.
Spain and the world
I sometimes wonder if there is a difference between honest belief and being brainwashed. That statement applies to myself as much as to anyone else. Whilst I have been raised within a society that, basically at least, follows the principle of 'do unto others ...' I often ask myself why someone would act in the manner which many do. I have also come to the conclusion that no-one can overcome extremists should such decide to launch plans to disrupt a country's activities by targeting its citizens. What those people or groups would hope to achieve by such activities also eludes me; surely such operations would merely strengthen the resolve of those targeted. It would appear that capitalism does have its weaknesses, particulary when it comes to the indiscriminate use of wealth to obtain a goal without due concern about those who might be affected by the process and its consequences. In that sense perhaps it is time that governments - honest ones, if that's not some form of anti-logic - took a wee bit more control over the activities of companies (multi-national or otherwise). However, I digress. I applaud the reaction of the Spanish people to these latest attempts to undermine the fabric of their country - even those in the Basque areas.
That should read "even more those in the Basque areas".
celebdaq
Does anyone have any idea why Ralf Little's shares keep going up?
The motivation of terrorists
The tape claiming Al Qaeda responsibility says it all, really: "You desire life; we desire death."
Um...
Have the gremlins crept into my computer, or am I simply imagining all this minimalism?
Oz syndrome
ooh, that was confusing. did I imagine it?
I see
No, I didn't. How very strange. Approving of new fontage, however.
I don't
New fontage? Everything looks the same to me.
[Raak] I suspect the gremlins have got at my computer. Everything switches intermittently to Times New Roman and similar sparsity.
New stuff
I did just notice the new favicon -- very nice.
Where next.
The world is so small today, that news can be transmitted around the world seconds after it has happened, with instant assumptions of responsibility.
What has frightened me, is that as further details emerge is that this could happen anywhere, that Al-Quaeda have a long term goal and as a result they chose the place, time and method. They have the upper hand. The next act of terror will be unlike any that we have seen by them.

Once the west has bled the middle east dry of oil what kind of societies will be left? Looking at the news pictures of post-Iraq its hospitals, schools and housing were no bettter than that of a debt ridden third world country. I have yet to see evidence that everyone in Saudi has the same standard of living as you or I. With parts of America have already run dry of oil and its consumption shows no sign of slowing down, the exploitation of the middle east by the west only fuels the fire of Al-Quaeda fanaticism.

frontage
I momentarily experienced what looked like a plain text version of this page too, under IE6. Have reloaded and now it looks normal again.
Inky for President!
errmmm
Is there an e-pilg type thingy tonight? If there is, I could pop in for a little while, fairly early-like.
Update
I did update the site last night, so it might be your caches getting confused. Hit Reload if things look strange, and it should be ok.
Madrid
I'm observing a 3-minute silence. Does posting this count as 'not silence'?
As it happened - I didn't press 'enter' until the silence had finished so I'm OK.
[Inkspot] The West is paying the Middle Eastern states for the oil, and, I recall, was previously being criticised for not allowing Saddam to sell it. If they have the standard of living of third world countries, that is entirely the fault of their rulers. Saudi Arabia, in particular, is run as the private property of its despotic royal family, who indeed do not have the standard of living of you and I. Bill Gates would be a better comparison.
[3 minute silence] There is gesture inflation going on. If 2 minutes is enough for the dead of two world wars...
silence
What's wrong with 1 minute? It's just a gesture, after all. No amount of silence can bring back the dead. If a person wants to spend longer in silence, that's up to them - they can spend 10 minutes praying, etc.
oh yes ...
[flerdle] great to see you and yes, I hope so ... what is early-like for you?
Rich Rulers
[Raak] cf also Emir of Kuwait, rulers of Bahrain, Qatar, Oman etc. Not to mention the Sultan of Brunei. Now, how many of these countries have real, working parliaments with teeth?
Royals
I should perhaps point out that I recognize the immense wealth of HM the Q of UK&NI - however, she does not (indeed cannot) act in a despotic way except within her own four walls. Bill Gates can be said to have earned his pile, whatever reservations one has about the business methods of Micro$oft.
[HB] None, yes?
likely earls
[Chalky] Probably about 8:30pm or so for an hour.
measuring sticks
[HB, back one post] I will keep investigating .om and get back to you. What I've seen so far is pretty good, however. It's probably because it has just enough (oil) wealth to get the country developing, but not so much that he (SQ) can take it for granted. It will not last forever, and he knows it.
banter banter banter
sooo....read any good books lately? Seriously though, I'm a little confused - was does SQ stand for?
detective work, SQ
Have a look around here, which leads to here for the (rather long) official blurb. Perhaps I should have said HM S QbS.
Oman
[flerdle] Hmmm, a relatively benign dictator if you believe the somewhat hagiographic blurb - however, I remember, prior to a school trip to Romania in 1975, reading the official government literature on what a wonderful fellow that Nicolae Ceausescu was and how all Romanians were privileged to be ruled by such a caring, sharing fellow. It just makes one wary, that's all.
I know, and I'm wary myself :-). But I'm living here now, so will be able to see a few things "up close", as it were...
[flerdle] There are some things in that hagiography that one could, were one so despicably inclined, read in a rather different way than was presumably intended.

"Sultan Qaboos resorted to military force in order to eliminate a group of renegades based in the south who repeatedly declined the opportunities extended to the Omani population."

Yes :-D I know that too. There is a fair bit it doesn't say.
Top o' the marnin ta ya!
Happy St. Patrick's Day everyone!
feck off!
What is all this St Patrick's day nonsense? Until we see the same kind of fervour for England and St George, I'll have none of it! And another thought that struck me. Earlier this week, legislation to curb binge drinking was proposed, and yet... It's a load of feckin' hypocrisy! bah!
St. Paddy
[pen]Boo! Hiss! Anyway, what's stopping you celebrating St. George(if he ever existed and visited England) and prancing about wearing English things, and dancing round a maypole, or something? I do that EVERY DAY! Ha!
[penelope] Too right! I will celebrate St Patrick's day the day I celebrate Thanksgiving. This is just another example of the horrible rape of our culture by vile Americanism. The notion of celebrating St Patrick's day is entirely American and therefore to be resisted.
[Zooological Keeper] Not that I wish to rebuff rudely your cheery greeting, naturally.
St.Paddy
American? *wonders why it's a bank holiday in Ireland today*
Scary thing is that we've been invited to a St Patrick's Day party tonight.

No, not by locals.

party!
Hmm, will there be much illegal drink? Or will you be sipping soda water?
Merry Christmas!
Well, because my free Guinness hat looks like an Australian one I'm going to get very confused about my accent for the day. I agree it's all horribly commercialised but hey, it's a reason to celebrate - we don't get that many of those any more, unless you count the eejits who seem to think that Bonfire Night lasts 3 and a half months. [Snorgle] Oh that's you, is it? [Breadmaster] Thankyou. You couldn't deter me anyway, I'm in too good a mood. *does a little nationally unspecific jig*
[snorgle] The celebration is a big deal over in the americas although mostly among the Irish population, oddly enough :)
[snorgle] If you're a foreigner, and not Muslim, you can get a permit for a certain value per month. We will be sipping water, most likely; it's not the sort of "scene" one really wants to get into.
[flerdle] Drink orange juice, it's more interesting! :)
drinking and stuff
[flerdle]Or tomato juice. Put some Worcestershire sauce into it, and there you go! [ZK]I grew up in Canada and it's popular there too - especially amongst those who may possibly have had an Irish ancestor at some point, or knew someone who once drank a Guinness. The green beer and popcorn the loony lady across the street used to offer everyone, however, still gives me shivers.
[Breadmaster] Please cease from making your "vile Americanisation" comments. This is not the appropriate forum for them.
[snorgle] Lol. I suspect it really is just such a big deal over here because people want to drink a lot, and Guinness want them to. It's win-win apart from the poor sods who run the police stations and hospitals.
[rab] No offence intended - it's only the Americanism I deplore, of course, not Americans.
Housebuying saga
Well, until half past three yesterday afternoon I was going to become a homewoner on friday. Everything was set up, including my sofa being delivered to my boyfriends house (but it wouldn't fit through the dining room door, so is currently blocking the hall and being a huge health and safety risk) and a van and things booked. I'd chosen the white goods I wanted (with a little help from my firnds in the crescent!) And my solicitor has all my money. It was looking hopeful, but then, at approximatly 3.19pm GMT I received a call from the estate agent.
There was a SIX WEEK delay!
Some silly people up the chain (and as there's only three people involved I would call it more of a link that a chain, but anyway) are emigrating to NZ and have found out that they need to stay resident in the same property for 40 days, or something silly like that. So I can't move, and there's no point me pulling out as I want that house and I'd loose a lot of money having come this far. So I've just got to wait. And sulk.
And my state of mind wasn't helped yesterday by my mum telling me that I look awful in my bridesmaid dress for my brother's forthcoming wedding.
Hopefully seeing friends tonight and drinking to celebrate St Patrick's Day will help.
Gah!
[Lib]Sorry to hear it Lib! Is your mother usually so forthright? It's not going to turn into a soap opera, I hope. My father's family wedding always ended up in drunken brawls and being barred from the hotel they were staying in. [ZK]I won't be getting THAT drunk tonight(I hope!).
The maligned English saint
[pen] Quite. Standard conversation fair:
<Everyone>: So Nik, when's your birthday?
Nik: St. George's Day.
<Everyone>: Err. Sorry?
Nik: Mwuahahaha!
Or conversation fare, if you're not in the carnival mood.
St Paddy's
I had some Bailey's & Guinness myself, and kept it quiet.
St Patrick's Day
Breadmaster is right; St Patrick's day, as celebrated these days, is largely an American invention. Americans would do well to realise that on this side of the pond we merely like the Irish, but don't worship them.
Saintly festivals
Just to shove my oar in for a moment... British food and drink outlets seem to go loopy every St Patrick's Day, and I must concur with Rosie and Breadmaster's opinion that it's the US influence that fuels this. On the other side of the coin, I went into my local Tesco outlet (and it's the major one for the area) at the end of February to see what I could get to celebrate St David's Day (what with having Welsh ancestry). I was laughed at by staff. When I suggested that, surely, the massive efforts poured into their St Patrick's Day marketing might indicate a degree of 'racial bias' (I stopped short of institutional racism!), I was told "Well, you can buy a daffodil or a leek." I would have replied, but the manager had lost interest and walked away.
Dewi Sant
[UK] Wot, no lava bread or Welsh cakes? No Welsh whisky? No bottles of Brains, Felinfoel or Tomos Watkins? Disgrace!
St David
Well, there is always plenty of stuff available in Wales to celebrate it, but then Welsh cakes, although nice, aren't as exciting as Guiness, for most people. I think although it's definitely commercial - no-one really minds an excuse to drink and eat, just like at Christmas and Easter.
I'm going to make millions!
Right. My ambition now is to plan the mass-marketing off the back of St. David's Day. St. George's Day needs no help, in Clinton's at least, and I suspect is fuelled quite nicely by the football industry.
Pfft. I'm sure half of that wasn't in comprehensible english, but you get the right idea.
Guinness USA certainly capitalises on St Patrick's Day over here -- they've shown quite a few ads on TV here equating St Patrick's to Christmas, with everyone getting cases and kegs of Guinness and Harp....

[Nik] If St George had been asked what his birthday was, would he reply, "Nik's birthday"? (NB Nik's email address removed by request -- rab)

[ZK] I'd help you with the American marketing of St David's Day, but most Americans wouldn't know a Welshman if he came up and shoved a leek up their collective arses. ;) See also Church, Charlotte, meeting George W. Bush
[HB] Nowt Welsh at all, I'm sorry to say. Although I have tried and dislike laver bread, I would have bought any (or all) of the other items that you mentioned. I would also like to mention that difficulty my Irish father-in-law suffers in trying to find me a St David's Day card, on the back of my always sending him a St Patrick's Day card. Sceptics, note - he managed it once, so such cards do exist!
Welshmass
[DrQu+xum] I meant in the UK, where Welsh people are far more prevalent, although if it's successful I might try to crack the Big Market later on. :)
Wales, Mass.
[ZK] You need to get in touch with this fine body of people. Who will no doubt explain that it was, of course, the Welsh who discovered America in the first place, a fact disputed by Native Americans who unaccountably reckon that they got there first!
Party on!
With patrons like Catherine Zeta Jones and Siân Phillips its a must for my membership, The Social Welsh and Sexy Society.
Celebrations
[BM] I think you need to write to these people and explain to them the error of their ways. I've lived in Ireland and the U.S., and while I agree that abominations like green beer are a U.S. invention, it's simply not true that Patrick's Day is not celebrated in Ireland.
Saint's Days
(Dr Q) Isn't it true that there are probably a greater proportion of Welsh descent in Pennsylvania than in any other American state, though that proportion wouldn't be very large. Well, obviously, from what you say. It seems to me these Saint's days are used as yet another means of relieving people of their money, like Mother's Day (formerly Mothering Sunday) and Father's Day. I've got no kids, but I have two nieces, so what about Uncle's Day, or Eldest Son's Day. Come on! Oh, it's all bollocks, isn't it? :-)
[Rosie] I agree that much of it is commercial tripe. I was all for supporting Mothering Sunday and Father's Day in their original forms, but when "Grandparents Day" turned up in the shops, I lost all hope for my country. There's a line in Hocus Pocus - "Everyone knows Hallowe'en was invented by the candy companies!" which has, to a very great extent, influenced my more cynical side.
Katy Z. Jones-the-actress
My Dad, being a bit of a writer, would have had fun with a name like that. Get a Greek letter and a Welsh surname - mix 'n' match, alliteratively. In his memory I offer Catherine Pi Parry, Catherine Beta Bowen, Catherine Gamma Griffiths, Catherine Epsilon Evans and Catherine Delta Davies. Nos da i chi gyd (Night, night, all).
Anniversaries
[Rosie] I could not agree with you more (the Mum and Dad days, not the Welsh) commercialism has taken over the world! Over the years I have attempted to instill into my children that Fathers' Day is purely that (well, I can't comment on Mothers' Day - not my field!) and, finally, they have come to their senses. I have also attempted to impress upon them that a birthday is simply a date on the calendar. As you know, and I am now broadcasting it to the world, I turned sixty years of age a week or so ago BUT my son (I have two children, one of each gender) made me so happy when he popped in to say "Happy Birthday" and brought with him just a greeting card. My daughter on the other hand brought a bottle of rather nice port .... I am now re-thinking my stern attitude.        ;-)
Plymouth sham-rock
[BM] Have just noticed this: "I will celebrate St Patrick's day the day I celebrate Thanksgiving." :-)
[CdM] Of course it is celebrated in Ireland, but I understand that the notion of celebrating it originated in America.
[Projoy] Well, you get the idea!
rip-offs
I have noticed that the St Patrick's Day cards my mum receives seem to have changed from a religious theme, to more of a "Happy Green Irish Day!" with fluffy animals - and these are the ones from Ireland! I do get my mum things on Mother's Day (even though she says not to worry about it) but she does like getting presents. This year I've decided to go for something useful - she wants a new mobile phone, so I'll get her that, rather than chocolates or flowers. And I think I'll make or download a card, unless I see one I really like. She's doesn't mind that - she's very sensible, really.
[snorgle] Religion? What's that? Irish Day (as they are changing the name to next year) celebrates the birth of the first Leprechaun, Christmas celebrates the birth of Santa Claus, and Easter celebrates the birth of a rabbit from a large chocolate-coloured egg. Everybody knows there's nothing religious about any of these holidays! Or so my friends at Clinton's tell me.
days off
I think we should randomly celebrate any holiday so we get extra days off. After all, it's the 21st century, aren't we supposed to be living on the moon, working 3 hours a week and having our every need met by robots?
lunar-tic
[snorgle] Well, I was disappointed in 1999 that we weren't all flying around in Eagle Transporters, and that the moon wasn't blown out of Earth's orbit by an explosion of nuclear waste on its surface...
Look you in Pennsylvania
[Rosie] You're probably right -- many Welsh, including some of my mother's ancestors, came to both Western & Eastern Pennsylvania for the coal mining jobs from 1850-1920; some, like the Quakers, settled in the Delaware Valley much earlier (1640s-1700s). You can find a ton of Welsh town names in suburban Philadelphia -- Bryn Mawr, Berwyn, Radnor, even North Wales (maybe one could instigate a name-change to Trellistown? :)
Unlike Britain, though, the mining is still going strong. East-Central Pennsylvania has the largest deposit of anthracite coal in the world, and I'll bet a-dollar-to-a-daffodil that no less than half of its miners are of at-least-part Welsh descent.
This & that
(Dr Q) Thanks. But I bet there isn't a suburb called Llanerchymedd. :-) (snorgle)Technological advances certainly make life easier in many ways but their effect in the long run is that they simply enable more work to be done, with no increase in leisure. We work longer hours now (at least in Britain) than say 40 yrs ago.
working hard
The more technology there is, the more companies want to lay people off! That's one way to increase leisure time..
Mattriculations
I see Matt has just put his head round the door of one of the games. So, to celebrate - may I say "Hello Matt"?
Welsh
The area in and around Ipswich (West of Brisbane) was settled by Welsh people (and Germans, and Scots, and people from north-east England) in the 1800s; there's a suburb called Ebbw Vale that springs to mind straight away. It was a fairly large coalmining area too. Should be able to remember some of the other places around there, but can't right now.
[DrQ] Hm. Isn't it a bit rude to go slapping peoples' email addresses on public web pages without asking first, or any attempt at obfuscation? [rab] Can you sort that our for me, please?
[DrQ] And let me make my sentiments on this clear - I consider it bloody rude, and you've made me really quite angry.
Yes
It took me longer than a few minutes to sort out, for various technical reasons, especially at a time when I'm really snowed under with work and can't really spare more than the odd minute or two to post to these sites. So add me to the annoyed list, and also bear in mind that I do occasionally charge for my time at lawyer's rates.
My sincerest apologies
[Nik] I do apologise for my utter stupidity. [rab] If you can kill -9 that post, please do.
Thank you
[rab & Nik] Thanks for quickly eradicating my proof of idiocy. I'll go away for a bit in the hopes that things can cool off. Again, I apologise to both of you, and to the rest of you who had to witness that.
Re. Dr. Q.
Hi, folks. I missed the fireworks, but DrQu+xum has offered to resign from our Lock Cup championship game at the Lockisseum (he is the reigning champion) as a sign of remorse for whatever it is that just happened here. Personally, I would like our game to continue, but I'd like to know how people are feeling here. Thanks!
[Nik] My birthday is St. George's Day, by the way.
[Dr's Q and Lock] Oh, I doubt there's any need for that. An apology was all the compensation necessary, and it was paid in full. I wouldn't try and stop people coming here, even though MC5 does run on my equipment. The community doesn't need an evil overlord. [Dr Lock] Do you find it seems to land on weekends far less than your friends as well? Still, Friday's about as ideal as it gets.
All that was necessary for me, I mean. I wouldn't want to seem like I'm speaking for rab.
random celebration
What ho. It's St. Joseph's Day today, apparently. I think I celebrated by booking a holdiay. Which was nice.
Me too
I quite agree. DrQ's suggestion seems like taking things way too far.
The Lock Cup
Thanks, everyone. Guess I'll just have to remove Q from the Cup the old-fashioned way. Feel free to drop in and catcall from the cheap seats, by the way.
pfffft
I was late for work this morning - you know why? A friend rang me to tell me she was getting married on my birthday! How mean is that? Just 'cos it falls on a Saturday in July this year, does every cupid-struck couple have to go and pinch it for their own gooey nuptuals? Lay off my birthday, I say!
commandeering birthdays
ooooh pen - think yourself fortunate. No less than THREE, yes three ... members of my or partner's close family have chosen to die on my birthday. Since then, every year has been a "it may well be your birthday, K, but, it's exactly 2/3/7 years since ...... passed away, you know .." I'm made to feel really selfish because I want to enjoy my birthday [it falls at that time when everyone has just got over the aftermath of Christmas credit and is just about ready for fun, what with spring just round the corner] but ALAS no. *sigh* Compassion is the name of the game. Just call me Martyr :-)
squib
[Chalky] When's your birthday? We'll all send you presents this year! :)
Hello, Martyr, welcome to the board!
I don't suppose, perchance, that you are related to the Farqhars?
the morning after
[ZK] It was at the end of Feb on a Tuesday so, in determined fashion, I had a birthday party on the following Saturday so's not to clash with the 'death dates'.
[Duj] Not that I know of ... and Happy Birthday for last week to you, yourself, sir!
[Chalky] I remember reading Wuthering Heights and being struck by the fact that young Catherine doesn't celebrate her birthday because it's also the anniversary of her mother's death. This must have happened a lot in the days when childbirth was far more dangerous to the mother than it is today. Makes you think, doesn't it... Of course, Origen said that no Christian would ever celebrate their birthday, but then he had no private parts so we can ignore that.
(Cross-posting)
Wahey! New Doctor Who is Christopher Ecclestone!
what?
[BM]What? [UK]Yay!
Dr Who?
[UK] :) I'd read that earlier too! I've always thought CE was hideously underrated and I'm pretty fond of Dr Who...so I was much the joyous one today!
Okay, I'm better now. There was just a hell of a lot of bad things happening last Friday that just got me way down. Thanks to Nik & rab for accepting my apologies and I promise not to be as much of a w@nker from now on.
DrQ
Well, good! I was worried you were going off to hide in cyberspace and we might never see you again! ***big hugs**
[snorgle] *accepts and returns hugs* Thanks. Actually, upon further review, I notice that rab never said he accepted my apology....sorry for presuming as such.
Groan
I have ants in my kitchen. I suppose it was the Spring Equinox yesterday ... *grumble grumble grumble* (my fault really, I went away for the weekend and didn't clean up well enough before going)
ants
[Brendan] Put a wipe of neat lemon juice in several places across their route. It destroys the formic acid scent trail they've left for themselves and they won't find their way in to your pantry any more.
Ogre
[DrQ] I seem to have assumed ogre status. My comment entitled "me too" was supposed to have acted as an apology acceptance measure. Apologies for the lack of clarity on my part, and possibly for being slightly more grumpy than I needed to be... Group hug?
[penelope] But what about the ones that are in the kitchen when he does that? They won't be able to find their way back! They'll be lost! Do you want that on your conscience?
ants in pants
[pen]They may decide to build their own state - in the kitchen cupboard (or the underwear drawer) - the horror!

***hugs everyone***
I'm not usually this demonstrative, you know, but as we're online.. ;)

Giant ants are walking the earth
[Breadmaster] They're already dead. Very dead. And yet my concscience is clear. [pen] Cheers for the advice; unfortunately I didn't manage to work out where they were getting in (I did wait to kill them until I'd watched them running around for a while, but there wasn't an obvious entrance/exit, and then my insecticidal urges overtook me and I bludgeoned them all to death), but wiping the kitchen down with lemon juice doesn't seem as extreme as putting powder down everywhere.
more ants
[Bm]I'd rather have ants on my wipe-clean conscience than in my pants or my biscuit tin :o)
Thos were the days, my friend
Can I just say a very belated "Hello Thos" as well? Ta.
of nothing
hello. I have been in Chamonix Mont Blanc and it was loverley. Drove back to geneva airport on an uncrowded 2 lane autoroute yesterday am at 160kmh and it was a pleasure to pay the tolls (5 euros in total). The most pleasurable drive of my life - or high up there. Mont Blanc and it's sister's and brothers lit up by alpinr sun certainly beat anything the M4 has to offer. ***deeply contented sigh***
sister's
ahem. ha ha.
envious
[st d] Wow - autorouting in and around mountains ... lucky you.
Tonite
Just to let you know I won't be gracing the Chat Room tonight but only for the reason that I shall be out with my colleagues. I'm sure this announcement won't stop people assuming anyone who arrives in costume is me :)
oh yeah?
[rab] you DO tell porkies sometimes
europe
I'm off to Bella Roma on Wednesday! Yippee!!!!!
*fume*
*seethe* [zk] Lucky you. I neeeeeeed a holiday.
hunting
I had to search high and low for my post today.
Trappings
Bit quiet the mo.
Yah.
On the bright side, I just chatted with me mum in Aus. And the webcam works. woo.
hogging the space
So, not quite as hideous a day as was first thought. Still not the best.
Settling in
[flerdle] Great to see you posting from your new domicile ... that didn't take long! ... ;-) I trust all is well and Mr f is as organised as yourself.
Knackerd
1 hour to go then I bugger off home and forget all about the NHS for 13 hours.............
[widey] I hear you. After spending all night in a three-person team doing the work of a five-person team, I am about to put myself in the bed and remain there, if possible, for the next ten hours. Nasty working conditions do have an up-side, even if it's only when they end.
Greetings!
Allow me to break up the routine with a message from Rome!(Its not that boring here its just weve only just found the internet)If its any comfort to you, pen, the weather here is pretty rubbish anyway...
The rain in Rome
[ZK-o] S'ok... I have plans for a trip to Reykjavik next month (current temp: 0 degrees). I know it's getting close because I've started throwing socks into a backpack and enquiring about buying foreign currency. :o)
not *exactly*
[Dujon] Not quite in the new flat yet, so will probably still be a bit intermittent since we have no idea how long it will take to get a phone there. Until then, I'm making good use of what I have access to :-)
holidays
well, i am hoping my bruises will go down and am currently thinking of a long weekend maybe in Les 2 Alpes in late April for a bit of a glacier ski, then an unlikely but very tempting week or two in Chile in the summer for some S Hemisphere skiing and then a race camp in Austria in October. :o) All unlikely but fun to imagine....
noffink
No-one has said anything today. So I thought I might as well mention that the BIG DIET starts on Monday, and there should be a difference in me by the time we get to the Rugby pilg in May. :o)
[pen] Difference? You're not having the sex-change operation are you?
vive la difference
[pen] Woo. I hope you'll feed back your technique to me.
die(t)ing
I have a great diet! Just eat less. (Please ignore the mars bar in my mouth.)
nil by mouth
[Projoy] 'Feeding' is a word that is henceforth banished from my vocabulary. I will be existing on a series of meal replacements, (courtesy of that nice man at herbalife), caffeine tablets and cigarettes in a desperate attempt to prevent myself looking like a fat, shelf-bound spinster older sister at my younger sister's wedding in October, to be able to find something to wear for aforementioned wedding that doesn't have to come from the 'plus sizes' department, and hopefully to be able to fit into the £170-worth of linen trousers I have bought for the summer. (That's three pairs, by the way - I'm not into the huge-spending league just yet). I don't care that it relies on caffeine and soya. I just want to be smaller.
hello
[pen and all reducers] I've just finished a 60-hour week [I know it's not a lot by some standards but it was very intensive sort of work] so it's great to have time to catch up with the Morniverse. It's also quite exciting to see a reference to Rugbypilging in May. I'm going to cut out butter for the next six weeks in an attempt to rid myself of this blubbery lump around my middle. Oh yes - I'm also aiming to drink a couple of litres of water a day.
As it happens, I'm also on a diet, and so far I've lost a little over a stone.
die
Although I am drinking a remarkable amount of water, I am not on a diet, and you really do NOT want to know how much oil there is in a biryani, as taught to me by a nice Iraqi woman. Further investigations of regional cuisine will be undertaken soon.
Dieting
Here's a cheering thought: when the Allied forces liberated the concentration camps, they found no fat people. Therefore, it is possible.
You know when...
As symptoms of too much online MC go, I think starting a page of notes with the title "Slap this jammy factor" must count as one of them.
Concentrate...
[Raak] Yes, I guess it's all a matter of concentration. Where do you find a Japanese or Nazi prison guard when you need one? (And if I might say so, you speak like the enviably skinny person you are... :op)
diggings
I just found The Encyclopaedia Morningtonia here: http://www.satiche.org.uk/satiche/sat-0207.htm. Have I not been following the chat, or did anyone know?
[pen] It was mentioned in the Morniverse a while ago. It seems to have added an acknowledgement of its source since then, but the URL of course doesn't work.
unmarried ladies
I was looking at an old marriage certificate (circa 1942) at work today, and noticed that the the bride (aged 18) was described as a "spinster"! I never realised that applied to any unmarried woman (unless she was thought old to be unmarried at 18).
the spin
All first time brides were known as 'spinsters' [and possibly may still be so - but I haven't got married for a while so I don't know] and their age had nowt to do with it. It's interesting how the word now [to those aged 30 and younger]conjures up an image of a a lady past her prime.
... whereas batchelor, the gender opposite, conjures up an image of the footloose and fancy-free young blade. Life's a b*gger really, for us girlies.
Shelves
Surely not! A spinster, just like a bachleor, is someone of marriagable age (definition liberal) who isn't? I have never thought of it as otherwise.
Spinsters etc
(Chalky) You don't need to be under 30 to think of a spinster as unmarried and no chicken. The word was a bit old-fashioned even in my childhood (40's - 50's), and mildly derogatory. Its original meaning was "female spinner" (of yarn). This was presumably thought a proper way for unmarried ladies of a certain age to occupy their time, in the absence of vibrators, though who knows.
Yippppppeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee...........
Home in 55 minutes and 5 nights off......Will the NHS survive without me, probably. Do I care if it doesn't, no!!!!!
As Rosie says, a spinster is just an unmarried woman, but it has acquired unofficial overtones of left-on-the-shelfness. If you have banns read in church before your marriage, the woman is always described as "spinster of this (or another) parish".
Spinsters
It's all part of the gender bias inherent in the English language. Get a thesaurus and look up 'manly' and 'womanly'.
bias schmias
Hmmph. It works both ways... Being left on the shelf means you sometimes get mixed up with the rejects and the returns, which sometimes ain't so bad. This weekend is an interesting one, for complicated (and unexpected) reasons. I just hope I've got enough lipstick to last me until tomorrow. BTW (and to start another subject) I bought a petrol-engined lawn mower on the web last night. It's going to be delivered to my office on a day when I'm out at meetings all day. Am I completely nuts? (On second thoughts, don't answer that)
*doesn't answer, but...*
*sends in the white-coated squirrels*

mmmm, machinery. Is that just for your patch of lawn, or are you thinking of going into business? And has the back corner managed to reassert itself, or is the forest properly under control now?
Mind you, I can't talk, I'm still slightly in love with my new fridge. It purrs...

Manly vs womanly
[Tuj] Womanly means to exude femininity or lady-like qualities, whereas Manly is a suburb of Sydney, Australia. ;)

I don't believe I've heard the term "spinster" used in America for...well...ever.
digital camera
Yay! I finally got one, that can be used to take short videos and act as a webcam, for the princely sum of £17.95, including postage! I can now use the internet for its true purpose - putting up pictures of my cats (once I get some webspace sorted - I get some free from NTL). I'm looking forward to selling shiny objects on E-bay, as well. ;)
digital knobs and dials
[Snorgle] Don't be ridiculous. The internet's true purpose is so men can chat you up by sending you pics of their tattoos and knobs and you can pretend to be impressed. (And £17.95??? Did you get the decimal point in the wrong place?)
Clocking off
Just to let you know I'm stepping into the Slovak Republic for a few days, so if you don't hear from me, that's why. Oh, and not impressed with myself at booking an 8.15am flight on the morning the clocks go forward...
[pen] For a fine selection of knobs you could do worse than look here.
knobbing it large
[rab] Thanks, sweetie. It even gave me the option of 'knobs - small, medium, large' :oD
wrong places
Nope, it was that cheap. I really didn't want anything fancy, just something to try out. It was discounted too. I actually got some nice photos today! Here it is.
go pen, GO!
[pen] Good luck on your mission to shrink. Sounds tough, but I'm sure you'll cope. I'm on a exercise mission to minimise my waistline to fit better into my bridesmaid corset and skirt, will be going to the gym later for multiple sit-ups. But only when i can prise myself out of my pyjamas!
[widey] Which bit of the evil NHS do you suffer in? I'm quite content at the moment as its my third weekend off in a row! But next week I'll be back to miserable, downtrodden Lib!
The value of the penny
pen] I'm on my 10th week of weight loss - so far I've managed about 1.5 stone. I’ve found that if I substitute my normal meals with low-fat options, I just crave the high-fat version. Low-cal stuff is often (not always) crap - so I've taken to eating really high quality stuff so that when I do eat, I've really got something to look forward to. Plus I've discovered Lebanese cooking - fabulous couscous and fresh onion salads, houmus, pitta bread, fresh mint leaf tea...
[Btd] Sounds delicious... I'll have to find a book. I'm still waiting for the diet stuff to arrive, but now I have a lurgy which isn't going to make it much fun...
the dreaded!
Oh, that ruined my last diet! I got a cold and just felt too miserable to cut down - I was drinking loads of hot chocolate, etc..
lurgy survival
pen, snorgs] Chicken soup is good for lurgy and diets. If you can wait for it, go for this one.
bob boc boc
I'm a veggie - so I'd better not.. :)
chikensoupicillin
[Btd] I make a chicken soup so substantial that it becomes a meal in itself - I ate it three nights in a row last week. Wish I'd frozen some of it now :o(
Orthographic pedantry
It's Lurgi. Think Italian. Trust me; I heard it first time round. :-)
lurgi
[Rosie] I'm snotterini too. *Atciao!*
[penelope] (back one post) Wouldn't that have been a chicken lollipop?
Quiet night in outer space?
No e-pilg tonight?
e-pilg
Sorry, DrQ, busy tonight! My brother is coming over from Canada on Wednesday, and I'm still getting his room ready..
Indeed a quiet night.
[snorgle] Yes, I see he took the cold with him. ;)
Lurgi
Has anyone heard this pantomime sequence? (don't know which pantomime) - 1st witch: Where's the fairy princess? 2nd witch: She's in bed with the dreaded lurgi. 1st witch: Oo-er! 2nd witch: Oh, I dunno, I quite fancy Italian men meself.
Sniffles
Lurgi has now struck here too...
Lurgi
Well, *I* still can't get rid of this damned bronchitis that's been bugging me since the beginning of the month. It's mostly died down but it won't go away...
*atchoo*
Was out with Mother last night, after dropping off older sister at the airport for her return to the US. I'll be there next week :o) The lurgi is steadily taking a grip... :o(
not so cute
My two and a half year old, Thomas, picked up the lurgi over the week end. Unfortunately being so little he does not quite understand the concept of blowing his nose into a tissue, with the consequent torrent of stickyness streaming from his nose. As I leave you with the wonderful picture in your mind of this shimmering gunge glistening in the soft light of spring. Ponder a few seconds further on semi transparent bubbles on the end of his nose each time he sneezes.
[pen] I don't suppose a side-trip to Da'Burgh is in your plans? :(
oops
[DrQ] Bleeeaaaauuuurgh. I meant I'll be in the chatroom next week, not I'll be in the US. I realised once I posted it how rong (that's right, R-O-N-G, rong) it looked, but was too busy sneezing to put it right.
*hangs yellow flag outside door*
I'm not coming back here until everyone is recovered!
*hands round tissues, paracetamol, cups of tea and some sympathy to all those suffering from lurgi*
I'd send some warm weather, but having a summer cold is foul.
Guarantees
[Btd] That would guarantee you a pat down search... depends what floats your boat, I suppose.
ISIHAC Pilg In Rugby In May
If anyone is interested, I've just posted here.
Get Well Soons
....and * a comforting pat * to all you poorly people. Awww.
change of subject
Sorry to change the subject and anticipating that I am about to whine --- Two and a half weeks ago I was in a car crash. A lady who reports for a local tv station zoomed through a red light and creamed me. I was lucky in that she did not hit the driver's side door. But I still hurt and I still find in idle times that I relive the event. Worst thing I've been through, although I'm sure many have been through worse. My car, meanwhile, is a total loss. So finding transportation after the rental car is done is also a concern. Just wanted to vent.
Awww!
[Tina] Sorry to hear that. *a comforting pat for you aswell *. I hope they throw the book at her.
Bumps and lumps
[Tina] Bad luck, that sort of event is never pleasant. If my experience is anything to go by those sudden memories will slowly reduce in frequency - a bit like the bruises, I suppose. I had a few bingles when I was younger (not all my fault, by the way) but maturity (?) brings sanity, adherence to speed limits and a much more alert attitude. I too had a lady fly through a red light and hit the area of the driver side rear wheel; it's a little disconcerting when one thinks about the timing! The worst thing I found is the incredible inconvenience of not having your own transport following the incident. I was fortunate enough to have a good friend who loaned me his FWD for the duration (I used to arrive at work at 5 am in those days, at which time there was no train which would allow that). Fortunately the lady involved admitted her error - I hate to think what might have happened should she have disputed my version.
Tina and sympathy
[Tina] *offers more sympathy* It's trite, but it helps to remember that it could have been worse. My most recent experience of something similar was when my collarbone was shattered about six months ago by an idiot out-of-control a****** (or, for our British readers, a*******) in a soccer match. I'm still recovering, dealing with tendonitis in my upper arm and very odd clicks in my shoulder; and even with insurance, it cost me several hundred dollars. So it still pisses me off that I bear the consequences of someone else's irresponsibility and stupidity. BUT -- and the BUT is very important... 1. I didn't land on my head and suffer a spinal injury, which I easily could have. 2. In the emergency room that evening I remember passing a legless guy in a wheelchair. That has helped me keep the incident in perspective ever since.

Truth is, life throws us some nasty experiences from time to time. If they end up being no worse than mine or yours, we are lucky. As I said, it's trite. And true.
[Tina] Ooh, ouch. I'm sure as Dujon says you'll feel better in time, but that doesn't necessarily help when you're in the middle of it, so *sympathy*.
Anyone who breaks the law whilst driving should be banned forever. No exceptions.
[Bm] Well, that takes at least 90% of drivers off the road immediately.
ty
Thanks all for the kind words. They do help.
accidents
Tina] Surely your insurance will cover you for a new car until her insurance pays out ? Are the police pressing charges (or are you?) - My advice would also be to see a Personal Injury Lawyer about it. Apparently any claim for injury/worry caused are automatically accepted by insurers if they are not over a certain limit (a few grand) when they start to check up.....I know it is not greatly helpful at the moment but I am sure that when a cheque finally arrives from her insurers it will make you feel better. I'm against stupid litigation generally, but in car accidents like this they are rarely stupid and you should also be vigilant for any signs of injury that may not be yet manifesting themselves - neck, back especially.
BM] That is an ***utterly*** ridiculous thing to say.
Cars
[st d, raak, bm] We probably don't want a repeat of the 'speeding as crime'/'stupid speed limits' argument.
[Tina] Sorry to hear about that. I've never been in a serious road accident so don't know how it feels, but I do know my sister suffered for quite some time after a car drove into the passenger side of the car she was a passenger in. Time seems to be healing her, as I'm sure it will you,
I was about to post about the fantastic day I've had belting my car around Oulton Park, but I won't, now.
'otfooting round Oulton
[Nik] At least you let all yours out on the track where it's legitimate rather than playing in real traffic. Good for you. And [Tina] *sympathy* too. What a bummer.
[Tina; following on from st d] If you do end up suing (and when something similar happened to my other half she didn't seem to get much choice in the matter, the insurance company just decided they were going to [no prosecution, though -- the police are holding the threat of same over the culprit's head to make him take some sort of How Not To Be A Complete Idiot Of A Driver course]) don't forget to mention those nasty flashbacks you've been having ... Our legal system seems significantly keener on compensating emotional distress than physical injury.
the horn, it goes "beep, beep"
All this talk of motor vehicles... I've been having the slightly surreal experience of learning to drive on the wrong side of the road. Granted, the roads here are in +superb+ condition, but everyone drives like they have some lower limb condition that prevents them from taking the weight off the right pedal. There's not so much of the crazy weaving and cutting in and tailgating (not as much as, apparently, in the UAE), it's just that they drive really, really fast. And then some. I have been doing very well (manual car, too), mainly because I'm reasonably ambidextrous, and I'm a spatial thinker, so turning things back to front in my mind (or contorting them in some other way) as required is pretty easy. The only thing I've noticed is an unconscious drifting to the right within the lane, which I find rather puzzling.

And for bizarre traffic, just one word: India

continental drift
[flerdle] The drift to the right is to be expected. You are used to driving a right-hand drive car, which means you are used to most of the car being to the left of you (equivalently, you, as an individual, are used to being on the right side of the traffic lane). Now most of the car is to your right, which means if you place yourself (your body) in the position in the lane that you are used to, the car will be too far to the right. As someone whose driven pretty extensively on both sides of the road, I actually find this is the biggest problem of adjustment -- more than actually making the mistake of turning onto the wrong side.

But you should take care in the next week or so: the dangerous time for accidentally driving on the wrong side is typically after a few days, when you stop thinking so consciously about which side of the road you should be on.

[nik] er, I think Bm was _kidding_; and I think (hope) that Raak and st d knew that.
[Breadmaster] There is a small country in which that is actually the case. I am pretty sure it's Kiribati. I remember reading they brought in a zero tolerance policy around 2000, and have since banned about half their drivers, without much effect on the economy, so I gather.
There's no reason to think it would have a major impact on the economy. In most economies the transportation sector is a pretty small fraction of GDP, and other forms of transportation typically operate as effective substitutes for private vehicles. Plus the revenue that would have gone to the transportation sector ends up being spent elsewhere, so on net the effects are going to be minimal. In fact, the impact could be positive, in that there may be stronger multiplier effects in the tradeable sectors of the economy (which is where at least some of the spending will go), and the policy would also eliminate some of the uncompensated costs, such as pollution and congestion ("externalities" in economists' lingo), from cars. Thus I might actually expect to see improvements in the balance of trade, little impact on tax revenues (and hence on the government budget deficit), and a positive (though probably negligible) effect on growth rates. Of course, this analysis presumes that the monetary authority pursues an apprpriate interest rate policy to ensure that the impact on the financial sector is minimized.
[Projoy] As Kiribati consists of groups of archipelagos spread over about half the Pacific Ocean, and none of the islands are very big, this means that (a) you can't drive any particularly useful distance in the first place, and (b) air and sea travel is much much more important.
Banning half the drivers in Britain may seem like a good idea to some (e.g. Richard Brunstrom, chief constable of Mrs Trellis' neck of the woods (N Wales)), but taking (say) half the HGVs off the roads would place an intolerable strain on the rail infrastructure, which, in any case, leaves far too many places unserved. OR you double the number of aircraft plying our domestic skies - and you'll know how much stick air travel comes in for for its alleged impact on pollution levels.
Well, maybe I was kidding a little bit. Perhaps it would be more realistic to say that anyone who breaks the traffic laws has to retest before they can drive again, with possible relaxations of the law for those to whom driving is intrinsically part of their jobs. That's as un-draconian as I'm prepared to go, though.
[Breadmaster] I'd go the other way -- if people are going to be driving a great deal, they should be subject to more stringent testing, not less. I think the only real way to make your system work would be if there was a decent public transport alternative so that people (particularly in rural areas) couldn't plead that they simply have to be able to drive. Which inevitably means subsidising it, but you get a heap of environmental/congestion/etc. benefits too ... I'll get off my hobbyhorse now.
[Projoy] It may not have affected their economy, but 75% of the car factories in Rawaki have gone out of business since the policy was introduced ...
of nothing in particular
Would anybody like to see my potograph of a little horsey who looks like MOOMIN ? Well if you do, HERE it is. :o) Moomins. I wonder what he is doing now ?
[Brendan] I think you're right. A tricky one. But as someone said, we don't want to get into this argument again.
[StD] You're right! He does look like a Moomin. Very cute.
arguments
do you like the way I am trying to divert the topic from cars to horses ?
[StD] You're doing a fine job. I think we can all agree to like horses, especially ones that look like Moomins. Even though a horse bit me once, and it darnedly hurt, I can tell you.
I think that anyone who rides a horse carelessly should be retested and banned for life. Particularly if it looks like a Moomin.
horses
PJ] Do you not think that some of the responsibility should lie at the hooves of the horse ?
Indeed...
..it surely behooves us to at least lay some responsibility at his hooves. (Now I bet you will never hear that sentence again)
[st d] I am not sure. I have never been behooved myself. Perhaps I will form a stronger opinion if I am.
[Projoy] Maybe we could resort to satyr?
Ticket
Hello. I'm back. Glad to see nothing untoward is happening, apart from Tina's accident of course for which I offer my condolences.
Hmmm
That killed the conversation...
conversation killers...
Talking of which, the new diet makes my wee green. It's worth the hideous expense and pain of meal replacements for the entertainment value. [Lib] Any explanation?
wee green
reminds me of the 14th at the Royal & Ancient. Tiny tiny tiny and surrounded by bunkers.
green pee!
[pen] I've never heard of green wee before...... Perhaps you're turning into an alien! I've come across bright red (not good), maroon (not bad) and orange (also not bad), plus the usual normal variations. The other day I saw wee akin to cottage cheese! YUM!
Lime Green Wee
Pills with chlorophyll colour my wee lime green - it looks like it could glow in the dark. BTW, when is Rugby? Have I missed it?
Rugby Ball
Bool] Rugby is on May 15th, so you've not missed it. However, I am reluctantly attending a school reunion tomorrow (03.04.04) to which I feel urged to remind you, you qualify to attend. Your company would be most welcome, especially if I get to find out why you have to take chlorophyll greenwee tablets.
chlorowee
[Boolbar] That'll be it. Chlorophyll is one of the ingredients in the formulae. I'll be photosynthesising nicely then. Dark reactions, light reactions... *forgets most plant biology*
Vroom! Vroom!
Can't hold it in any longer: Car pr0n! 15mpg....
naaaaaaaaaaah!
[Nik] You don't wanna be driving one of those! You wanna be driving one of these!. This is part of what I do... VIP passes available for my very close friends or see your local press for competition tickets closer to the date! :o)
[Nik] Golly - I do wish I lived near a circuit like that so I could give my TT a good thrash sometime.
you dont wanna drive one of those
Not Bernie...
[Btd] You didn't know? Good grief, man - get out from under that stone! But, yes, I agree!
more red carpet
After last weeks Celebdaq success of x_sugarbabe_x in reaching the top of Celebrity Mornington Crescent for the first time, it is now the turn of ffiish (aka Graham III) no stranger to the red carpet, the last time, was only in January.
Lol...I keep thinking Ronni Ancona/Lorraine Kelly stylee..."You need a pair of these!"
[pen] always glad to solve life's little mysteries. [btd] 03.03.04? But that's today! and it's 7pm! and I've nothing to wear!
daquiri
Ooh. Why thank you. Not really been paying too much attention, but it seems that Sven was a good investment. I'm in Europe at the moment (and for the next few weeks) so going to slip rapidly I think. Anyone in the Paris area, Munich area, Prague area? Would love to meet an English speaker! mail:at:graam:dot:me:dot:uk
Bollox n stuff
Offline for 7 days!!!! I have withdrawl symptoms!!!
Weather.
April 4th. Latrobe, PA: 1 C, snow flurries.

GAAAH!
Today's date is 04.04.04 and you know what? My big sis is 40 today... how's that for planning?
JUST LAUGH TO BURST
I ONCE SAW A PRODUCER OF CONDOM AT ENERHEN ROAD IN WARRI CARRYING TWO KIDS ON HIS HEAD WHEN I ASK WHY THIS ACTION? HE REPLIED MY CUSTOMERS ARE COMPLAINING OF THE EFFECTIVENESS OF MY CONDOMS AND THESE ARE THE PRODUCTS OF THEIR COMPLAIN. SO.....LOL......HAHAHAHAHAH. DO U THINK CONDOMS PREVENTION OF HIV/AIDS CAN MEET THE CUT OFF MARK.IF YES CONTINUE TO USE THE CONDOM,IF NO PLEASE TRY ABSTENANCE.
Fabulous.
ahhhhhhhhhhh
The British weather it brings tears to my eyes just thinking about it. I have 2 days off and the forecast is rain........oh joy and delight abound NOT
wetwang
[widey] Why not look at it positively? These two days are the only two days you can go out and enjoy the rain with impunity. Get your wet weather gear on, have plenty of hot water waiting at home for a long hot soak, and go out in it. Admire it for what it is - just another kind of weather, no less beautiful than sunshine or fog, but admittedly inconvenient if you're dressed for sometjing else. As they say, there's no such thing as bad weather, just inappropriate clothing. Sorry. I'm on a restricted diet, you know
Mmmm. Bath.
more royal bust up
Mrs Becks shares are starting to twitch!!
daqing
I'm hanging onto Prince William due to his hopefully high divvies..
pj] Exeter.
Mmmm. Weston-Super-Mare.
Royal knockout
I'm on the Queen. She's getting loads of coverage here in Paris cos of the 100th anniversary of the entente cordiale, but I don't know whether that's being covered in the broadsheets. Half of Paris is closed today. For one doddery old woman. Makes you think. Not for very long, but it does, doesn't it?
Knocking Out Royals
I'm currently working in the 24th storey of a building overlooking Buckingham Palace, so I see HM coming and going by helicopter from the back lawn frequently. I wonder how long I'd last if I were to point a long tube towards her???
It must be one of the best views in London.
Get your Royal Kock Out!
[Projoy, st d, Chalky] You're all wrong. Chew Magna.

[GIII] You're on the Queen. I think there's a few tabloid editors who might be interested in that...

Eurostar
[GIII] That sounds like someone keen to keep on top of the Celebdaq, yours could be a wise choice as the queen will have lots of coverage and possibly even front page of the broadsheets. And tomorrow she will meet President whats-his-face of France - even more pics and column inches.
[snorgle] your a big softie.
I'm on the Queen....
sounds like something you'd overhear someone saying on their mobile phone. Or rather something you probably wouldn't.
That sounds like a cue for my Moscow story, but then again, it probably isn't.
pravda
ZK] go on tell us anyway. But keep it brief and witty.
Queenie
It's looking a decent choice, but the Beckhams' divis will be pretty high as well. Watch a space...

[rab] £50,000, exclusive. Cheap at the price...
I don't know about witty..
I was on a school trip to Moscow and I was the only russian student there, so everyone was used to me translating everything...we were walking down the Arbat and a man went past three of us, speaking loudly into his mobile phone. I quipped, "Hello! I'm on the train!" And Karoline turned round and said "Really?" ...Wrong for so many reasons....
Has the orange gone rotten?
I've been trying now and then for the last three or four hours. Has the site gone down, or is it just me?
rotten oranges
I'll check...
do not readjust your set
seems alright to me.
Orangey
[Dujon] Up as far as I know, and no reports of any downishness.
Hums
Hums (again, it seems)
It must be me. The site flatly refused to talk to my browser (I normally go straight into the site using the MCIOS skin) BUT when I attacked the site in a normal hacking manner (I am a smoker) all worked well; buzzed off to the MCIOS skin and it worked. Now I can access through my old 'bookmark'. Urrghhhhhh.

I may not be on for the next few weeks as my fourteen pounder, sitting quietly in the shed at the moment, may be called upon to do its duty.
cryptics
[Duj] Your fourteen pounder? New baby? Marrow?
Throwing weight around
Sounds like a man planning an Eddie Shoestring reboot.
Heavy metal
[Chalky] INJ is correct. It's a hammer; a bloomin' big hammer. :-o
cracking a nut with a ....
So it's a hammer. AND?
Action
Well, Chalky my dear, I'm about to find out about the 'AND' bit. Stand by.

Testing, testing

Tes(%╕Ñ▓ü▒êª╝╜┐

I felt that!
More celebdaq stats
Sometimes I think about the Celebdaq (probably more often than is good for me) and I've been wandering around and came to the stange decision that I needed more of 'it'. So now I've opened another account (Cleddau) and joined the waiting list of Celebdaq Discworld Guild Minileagues, which has 14 leagues of 30 players!! relegation and promotion !!!
There's an msn group called The Celebdaq Basements which has links to two very good tools. The one exampled is the Potential and Previous Dividends
Name Price
(Fri 00:00)		 Price
(Wed 06:00)		 Price
(latest)		 Last Div Total Gain
Last Week		 Total Gain
since Wed 06:00 		Potential Div Pot Yield
for Week 		Price Gain Pot
Total Gain
Victoria Beckham 3.43 3.89 4.15 3.28 86.91 6.68 14.23 414.87 20.99 435.86
Prince William 3.84 4.88 5.20 6.39 232.14 6.56 7.93 206.51 35.42 241.93
The Queen 4.11 4.80 5.13 5.76 178.03 6.88 8.75 212.90 24.82 237.71
David Beckham 6.63 7.40 7.89 2.97 25.65 6.62 13.65 205.88 19.00 224.89

Graham III could well have chosen right in going for the Queen instead of David Beckham tomorrow will tell. I'm almost excited ...time for a custard cream or two to settle the nerves :o)
Oh well...
Looks like Viccy B was the way forward. I'm miles off.
More vinyl
Today has been one of those rare occasions when I can dig out my albums, (some of which I have not listened to for several years) the Inkspecks have gone to stay overnight with the grandparents leaving me to decorate the living room. There's buried memories in them bits of black vinyl. Back then the music was part of what I did. Today listening to the intro of 'The Great Om Rift' by Steve Hillage made the hairs on the back of my neck rise just as it did when I first heard it,(I can still picture him on the stage of the Crdiff Uni). Tonight my task is to find some old tapes I made of the singles I bought at the time, as stopping every three minutes to 'spin the next disc' may lose its appeal very quickly.

Meanwhile over at Celebdaq and Celebrity Mornington Crescent its congrats and celebrations for Chalky who rises to No1 only question is, with which Royal family?
For the first time i've tried out the advanced trading tool which gives a very easy to read at a glance read out of which shares are moving and by how much over the last hour, three hours and since midnight, taking away much the guess work. I could work it out by the percentages.
I had bought Goldenballs some months ago knowing sooner or later he would hit the headlines. The account has been bumping along the bottom of the league for sometime, but patience has finally paid off.

html reprise
Its the second time I've made this mistake now, the "r" was missing from "href" so please insert this into the above posting ..... celebrations for Chalky who rises to No1....
chattin'
[Inkyspot] Thanks. I put all my shares on Vicky Becks even before the twitch. Also, it's only fair to admit that I'm also playing x_sugarbabe_x because the daughter lost interest in the Daq after a few weeks. In my sugary role I placed all my money on Mister Becks [the cheating b*stard]. Now I'm hedging my bets on both accounts between both royal families, but have spotted Arnie is on the rise. Wass 'e done NOW?
*note to self: must read the newspapers*.
Glad to hear you had some space to yourself for vinyl stroking.
Ommm .....
[Inkspot] Blimey, someone else who owns "Green". One great record, if you can get used to the vocals! I never saw him live, but I do have "Live Herald", one of the best live albums by anyone, ever.
Vinyl: it's the new black
Chalky] Be careful of Arnie, he picks up every Friday but his libido only lasts till Sunday, so if you need something for the weekend slip him into your top pocket. He has a rugged saw tooth profile as people throw their divi's at him on Friday morning only to cash in on Monday to transfer over to the news story of the week, so his value drops again.
So there you have it Arnie the quickie one-night-stand of the Celebdaq.
The 'vinyl stroking' went well today and has eased my pent up frustrations.

HB] I was lucky enough to see him twice during that era, the second time was when he was promoting 'Green' at a concert at Cardiff's Top Rank, they were selling the album along with all the other memorabilia. Anyway the album is a prized possesion, he autographed the record label and signed it with the om symbol. I agree Live Herald is a great album but I cheated at tea time and put the on the Live in Concert at the BBC CD.

I had my first ever, ever, ever virus today on the pc. After downloading the latest update, as usual, I ran the full scan, it discovered and removed a trojan called downloader.nex.B, I had picked it up somewhere when surfing. Although I'm up to date now, I could stumble across its like again tomorrow or the next day but unless I run my virus scan everyday I'll never know. Is this something I should seriously consider or am I becoming paranoid after one incident?

's a bit quiet in 'ere, innit?

[weather report] Another greyish day here, but no hope of rain, of course. Keeps the temperature down, though - about 31 or so most of the time here, down to 22ish at night. Am wondering when it'll start heating up properly. And planning to escape it :-)

Irritating diseases
[Inkspot] Do you have anything set up to scan everything you download automatically? I have found both Norton 2003 and McAfee (latest one) pretty good at that. You can also get utilities that sit there looking for unusual horsing around, which you can get in packages. There are, iirc, one or two free trojan horse finders which run through a lot quicker than a full system scan.
[flerdle] Might be with being Easter weekend and all.
[Dunx] Yeah. I only remembered part way through Friday. Thankfully I've avoided most of the Easter commercial hype (what a relief); sort of to be expected here :-)
locked out
I can't get into the chatroom and there's an eplig going on. *sob*
pests
Graham III] Thanks for your note on the virus and trojan scans, I have AVG and Zone Alarm running in the background the whole time which pickup things like;
The firewall has blocked Internet access to your computer (TCP Port 715) from 142.163.205.65 (TCP Port 3683)
The firewall has blocked Internet access to your computer (TCP Port 901) from 68.86.243.159 (TCP Port 2772)
which are two from tonight 68.... is a frequent caller perhaps 142 is worth a look over at Whois. The email is scanned by AVG and touch wood my Inbox has been junk free with only my expected mail from NASA, ESA and Loonies, everything else gets routed to Hotmail. However for the last three years I've been running a peer-to-peer program on cancer researh from United Devices/Grid.org. One of the sites identified this type of regular data transfer as a possible way in for the unscrupulous!
awwww
[Lib] therethere *patpatpat* next week...
googlewacking
this site is a googlewack
waspish carping
[Ich] Not any more, it ain't.
carpish wasping
Maybe we should keep track of the number of times people pop up and say that? I'm sure it happened at least once before here..
celebrity sos
Tommorrow (wednesday) we're off down to Broad Haven for a couple of days till the end of half term to stay in a caravan. With no access to the 'net could I ask please if someone from Celebrity MC could send me the page, gareth underscore penn athotmaildotcom so that I can do the usual.
I'm too excited...
Here I am, all packed, too excited to go to bed yet... will try and post somewhere into the Morniverse from Reykjavik later this week :o)
Liddle Gyser
Pen] Ah - wonderful Iceland.* envyenvyenvy *. Business or pleasure? Either way, be sure to take a bus inland to see the waterfalls. Under no circumstances miss a dip in the blue lagoon.
Half term?
Surely the Easter holidays haven't finished yet!?
Eggsellent
Easter? Oh, so that's why I had an extra day off.
Rugby ball update
Chalky has reminded me that there are only 31 more days until ISIHAC 2. Several folks have been contacting Chalky with contributions - please send them to me @nettlesoup, that is a .co.uk address and my name is bobthedog
Shattering the silence...
*trumpet fanfare* I'm very excited to announce to you all that I've bought a house! We've exchanged contracts today to move later in the month. I didn't believe that it was going to happen as its been a rough ride, but it is! Yay! I've got some piccies which I'll post if enough of you are interested.....
*cheers*
ooh, yes please.
not much convincing needed!
Click here.
House!
[Lib] Congratulations! I particularly like the matching buggies in the back...
Ah....
I notice the title of that page is out-of-date... *tweaks various knobs* Not any more!
Castles
Terrific, Lib. I hope all goes smoothly with the move and that the house and area turn out to be what you expected. Exciting times indeed - good luck!
[Lib] I remember the pain of buying a house... well done! My house is scarily similar to that in format. If I had a digitally-inclined camera, I'd be tempted to replicate the shots. On the other hand, the car pr0n seems to be killing my bandwidth, so more pictures would be a bad idea, I think.
I have a horrible case of the shakes at the moment. I can barely type. This is odd, because I've only had 2 pints of weak lemonlager, and a mere 3 cans of Diet Coke, today. Not much caffeine yesterday, either. Bizarre.
Lib's abode
It looks great Lib. [Lovely pic of you in the bedroom] An interior design tip .. in the kitchen - lose the tiles, keep the wine.
er ..
[Lib] I am assuming that IS you in the bedroom. Apologies if I've been a bit presumptuous.
I Often.....
Lose my tiles in the kitchen after drinking wine.......It should be a compulsory house purchasing sport! And on a completely different note I've just finished building a new Koi pond from recycled house bricks and it look fabulosoe...............chin chin everyone.......
Thanks or all your nice words. [Dunx] I too like the buggies in the garden, but the vendors won't let me keep them! [Chalks] That's my Mum, I was behind the camera! You'll have to wait till the superpilg to see my face!
fault lines
[Lib] Having just returned from Iceland (and having been educated in all things seismic) I think you were sensible not to buy the blurry houses on either side. Looks like they might be laying along a tectonic fault and are suffering frequent tremors. Congratulations! :o)
Boyce
I would have thought the caption might have tipped the wink as to the identity of the lady in question...
[rab] Read? Are you quite insane, sir?
[Pilg] Er, being my typical parnoid self, I'm beginning to worry about the upcoming pilg. I have vague, distant memories about confirming my desire to attend to someone (Chalky?), but what am I supposed to be doing (if anything) about accommodation? Am I giving a lift to Manchester-based peoples, or are we going by train? Yes, yes, there's almost a full calendar month left, but still.
Lib
I too assumed it were Lib, and that maybe she had a wee baby. Certainly the picture is in much shadow, but Lib's Mum looks very much like a friend of mine who is about 28, which would make Lib about 15 at the very most assuming Momma fell pregnant so early, and would still be very young to actually be buying a house....
Lib's mum and Nik's room
[rab] the words 'proud parent' could mean proud owner of new home? eh eh ...? oh alright ...perhaps not
[Nik] Yes - you're booked into hotel. Single room. JLE, rab & Lib might be in the epilg in MCiOS tonight - I know there was some talk about travel from M'chester last week. I'll be there mesself at about 9.30 pm for Q's about the hotel and timings.
Thanks for that. I will try to be in the chat room tonight, but usually forget about these things.
Spleen
I wonder if it's time for a spring clean? Mind you, from the position of not currently being very active in the games I may not be the best person to judge.
I haven't a clue. Sorry.
How did the epilg go? Any remaining questions?
Menu
[Btd] Any questions? I have thousands! What's in the line-up? Who's been really clever? How much swotting are people doing? What do we need to prepare? And what should I wear? :o)
dress code
A few pics of the venue if anyone wants to adopt a personal style in accordance with the interior ambience .. http://www.corushotels.com/hotel.asp?hotelID=54
I'm opting for a burgundy/aubergine crushed velvet gown, black lipstick, untamed long dark hair and wild, swivelly eyes.
Er .. what's all this preparing/swotting for ... do we actually have to do something when we're there?
Bansheen
[Chalky] You are Siouxsie Sioux and I claim my £5.
PENELOPE !!!
STOP HANGING AROUND IN INTERNET CAFES AT ONCE AND GET OUT THERE AND GO CLIMB A VOLCANO OR SOMETHING !! jeeez - the kids these days ?
great minds
[Chalky] Darn! Now I'll have to find something else to wear.
BTW, Is the Rugby venue a non-smoking venue? Mrs B wants to know.
fag
It wasn't smoking last time I saw it boom-boom. Seriously, the restaurant is non-smoking but it is ok to smoke in other places. My vote is that we politly ask smokers to refrain from doing so for the duration of the games.
smokers
bob] can we politely tell you to go stick your head in a bucket ?
;o)
PEN] apologies - I thought you were still in Iceland.
Spleening
[rab] Whoo-doodoo-Hitler seems to be due for retirement. A-V-M-A as well?
Concur
I certainly concur with the first, fun though it was. Not played AVMA for a while, but it may well be a good idea to lay it to rest for a while. It can always be resurrected in the fullness of time if so be required.
culling
Whoodoodoo for sure. AVMA seems to have a fanbase but I'm sure they'll speak out. But surely there are other games that have seen their best? Tell you what - let's end them ALL! [except Banter,and Long Game]
I'm still at work :-(
Alacrity
Why not?! I feel things have stagnated a little here...
Oh
The Furcation Game is unwinnable, but I can change that if need be.
Furcs etc
rab] I see no need... I may be alone on that one though!
Culling could be the way, but not a total one. Let's freshen up and stride onward, blah-blah.
mouldy old dough
It may have been mentioned here or at another of the boards after Dunx posted the "White Rose" archive that games do tend to go on beyond their sellby date, due a collective unwillingness to end games and feel the ire of players still posting. To the extent that generally I have come to only killing off games that I have created on Orange, which reminds me one of them has almost ground to a halt, time to get the sythe out again.
Although I still enjoy guessing in AVMA, it feels at times that there are only the same few of us playing and so making the winning move is a bit like musical chairs. I'll miss it when it goes but then again I also miss my mum's rice pudding with the skin on the top.
Rice pud.
Blimey, Inkspot, that doesn't half bring back memories. Loved rice pudding, whether 'runny' or 'firm'. Haven't had one since I married. I must have a go one day and see how I fare. With my culinary abilities (which run to meat and three veg.) I'll probably burn the bowl! Still, a couple of vinos before starting in order to settle the nerves and bolster the confidence should do wonders. Incidentally, to those of you who proferred information on dumplings some months ago, I never did get around to them. The main obstacle was the suet - not readilly available I'm afraid. My local butcher said he could organise some for me, but it'd take a week or so. The unusual burst of enthusiasm then waned rather rapidly.
Suet
(Duj) Suet is only flour and fat (or oil). You can make it in no time but don't overdo the oil. It's available here anyway, at least it is in Hamsey Green Co-op. Ideally, dumplings should be very slightly burnt.
Really?
I always thought suet was the scrapings from the inside of a haggis! Only kid'neyr. Burned dumplings sound like some of the nouveau riche who idolise Bondi Beach - poor misguided souls. I'm white and I'm proud of it! (To be honest it's the pain that puts me off).
suets you, sir
[Boobar] have mailed you using an address from last year - hope it reaches you
[Rosie & Duj] Sorry 'bout the interruption - suet - yes - the real thing is that solid fatty stuff that accumulates around the kidneys and omentum of the ox, sheep. etc. I believe one can no longer buy it readily because of the restrictions due to BSE, but I may be mistaken.
Suetessimal
[dumpling eaters] nope - it's still available. It's also available as a vegetable suet - it's just a solidified vegetable fat. I don't know about suet fresh from butchers... I guess it does take a couple of weeks if it's not something they produce regularly - you have to wait for the next beast to come through the slaughterhouse, I presume they throw it away otherwise as it's pretty untrendy right now. But both beef suet and vegetable suet are available in packets from UK supermarkets - I made dumplings the other day, in fact, for a beefy stew. Delicious. Look in the bakery aisle, near the flour and Yorkshire pudding mixes... (for those that know not how to mix together three ingredients... pffft!)
Haggis
DEEELLLIIICCCCCCCIIIIIIIIOOOOOOUUUUUUUSSSSSSS. Nothing else to say.
Haggis
Seconded. As indeed are fagots in gravey. Yumma.
Ahem
Faggots in gravy.
[Btd] I thought that was just serious food...
Faggots
"Fagotto" is Italian for bassoon. Can't see how this helps but it's true nevertheless.
I fagot
[Rosie]... coming from the french word for 'bundle of sticks' (fagot). Can't see how this helps either, but I always thought it was interesting.
haggis
I ate a vegetarian haggis before - it was delicious! No idea if it tasted like REAL haggis though..
faggots
does it not all come from the latin "fasces" ?
speaking of food, a colleague of mine went to THE FAT DUCK in Bray for her wedding anniversary a couple of weeks ago, and is still reeling.
Anyone fancy a bad tempered game ?
new game
st d] Yes. Get on with it.
the noo
snorgle] I am a big fan of the veggie haggis. The spices are the same as the meaty variety, so the flavour is very similar. What make the (McSween) veggie haggis so good is that it is full of real ingredients (nuts and veg) and none of that soya meat substitute nonsense.
bad tempered
if we do it, can we have RUDE swearing ;o) ?
rudity
[st d] you mean, like .. why don't you get get your effing act together and sodding well get on with it?
[st d] Well, after my Irvine Welsh effort at Orange, too much 'king swearing might stuff up people's content filters. So shove that in your cock and smoke it.
here comes a chopper ...
Apart from AVMA and Who-doodoo, which seem to have reactivated since the threat of closure was mooted, what's the favourite for the chop? I don't play many of the others ..
kill kill kill
well to be honest I think the INTRODUCING games and the LOST CONS games have been VERY SLOW recently. Also the AVMA and WHOODOODOO games seem to be trying to end naturally (one is in swan song mode.) I was tempted to just shut the feckers down but again, dont really play in them much so didnt feel I had the right. Maybe I should just go in and shut one down anyway and you can argue about it with me in the new game. If you think you are hard enough.
Now I am Bad Tempered
Okay Okay great joke ! I killed a game and now HOW DO I START A NEW ONE ?
hardness
[st d] I hate INTRODUCING - kill that one. Go on.
KILLING TIME
shall I kill that as well ? i have BLOODLUST now. I was going to but someone started a new one. It has been pretty weak recently after a strong start (just like HEDGEHUNTER in teh grand national. £20 I had on him. Bastar*)
Gutted
Finally get the chance to start a new ball in late arrivals, and find it killed stone dead less than six hours later!
bad tempered mode
{Uncle K] Tough sh*t :-)
Guts
UK] blame it all on Chalky. Vent your spleen on her in the new game.
Just tried to start a bad tempered game, wrote some wonderful blurb (it was called 'A Game to Rival PMT for Bad Feeling' - poetic, doncha think? and it had a load of stuff rubbishing StD in the intro. When I pressed the button, the sodding site wouldn't let me do it. Pffft.
Stop yer whingeing
rubbishing st d
whyever would yo uwant to rubbish me in the intro to a game is quite quite beyond me. By the way Chalky, you might want to go have a look at the !Yorkives to see GAME 736 which was the first (&last) outing of this game. It got rather carried away and I can only say far exceeded my expectations at the time. It still has me laugh out loud if I read through a lot of it. As for content filters, well......
Wahay!
[st d] Haha - just looked and how ROOD were you all? Extreme blasphemy from someone called Jacob and someone else called GRKWYK or some such fancy-arsed acronymically-challenged tosspot moniker ...
New gameage
[pen] Was that cos st d's game was started in the time it took you fill out the create game form? Did it say something like 'Don't think you can sneak a new game past me?' or similar... I think that's what's supposed to happen, but we've never had that race situation before.

[std] Ya fuckwit, didn't you spot the 'Create a New Game' button on the front page?

Oh
On the other hand, I have have surreptitiously dropped the game limit...
fuckwittedness
[rab] Actually ['though it chokes me to say this] in st d's defence - the New Game Slot didn't appear after he'd killed off GNBN. It only popped up when I murdered the Ball's Game.
Yeah
Yeah, that's what my previous posting was trying to explain. Read? It's that thing you do when you scan you eyes from left to right past some letters. Helps if the eye-brain connection is working of course.

Whoops, wrong game! I moot we restore civility on this particular forum...

civil engineering
What a fine evening it's turning out to be. Here I am, happily ensconced at my desk, playing online games with some awfully nice people. I shall be picked up at around 6.15 and taken to an excellent pub to join some chums. I intend to nibble on a packet of mixed fruit & nuts [haven't had any tea, see] and swig a glass or three of house plonk.
Bollocks.
ah - so the dog's bollocks is stirring ..
suggestion
Does anyone fancy a game of Cress?
I know I won't get any response 'til daylight 'cause this place, like, dies at this time of night, but I just thought I'd ask ...
nighty nite
[Chalky]Cress sounds good, go on its a form that's not played very often.
dreamy fillings
Mmmmmh, egg and cress sandwiches with mayo . . . .
Celebdaq
Woohoo! I'm number 1! (Again). (At last!). Were we supposed to take a screen print for someone? I want to save this for posterity..
Happy _______ day!
Happy St. George's Day.
Happy Nik's Birthday. (at the risk of offending him again)
Happy Dr. Lock's Birthday.
Happy My Birthday next week.
Happy Merlyn's Birthday next week in case I'm too pissed to say it then.
Today or not today, that is the question
Yesterday was NotmrsBobthedogs birthday. Today is Shakespeare’s birthday and tomorrow 1stchildofBobthedog is going to be a flower-girl in the Shakespeare parade.
Today...
...is spacebarofBobtheDog's holiday... :-)
Re: Cress] As good as any... we appear to have run out of suggestions (though not insults).
[DrQ] Does Dr Lock actually exist?
Oh yes, happy returns to all current birthday celebrators
Celebdaq
Congratulations on a fine effort, snorgle.

For Inkspot, whom I think wanted the chart saved; just in case no-one else did I have captured the table as a straight jpg image. It's not small (a bit over 200Kb) but if needed, it's here. I have not attempted to pretty up the page so the table is crammed in between a couple of advertisements.

Or was that last week?
Whatever. I shall clear it off the site in a week or so - or when I remember. :-(
and todays excitement is...
I *almost* got to go in an ambulance with a blue flashy light all the way to Liverpool today!
baddy pirthhay
Can I wish everyone a very happy notyourbirthday (and if it is your birthday, wait 'til tomorrow) as I am so bad at remembering peoples birthdays (including my own) that I am more likely to succeed in remembering to wish everyone a notyourbithday greeting.
[Lib] What, you mean you where clinging to the outside?
more Brazilian nuts
Late congratulations snorgle on being ay No1 . [Dujon]Thank you for the screen shot, yes it was for last week, how good are you at maths? The thing is, knowing the £ worth this week and the % gain, is it possible to calculate backwards to last weeks worth and gain . The table I have posted is from Saturday so the results are slightly wrong. If any passing mathematician is passing could they post a simple equation, I tried to do various transpositions but failed dismally.

...and another thing Dujon who do Bolton Wanderers think they are doing signing the Brazilian Rivaldo!

Mathematics etc.
You leave my lads alone, Inkspot. :-) You should know by now that we buy has-beens and rejuvinate their careers - then they nick off for more money! At the risk of incurring the wrath of everyone else - we're tenth on the table, who'd a'thought it.
I've never followed the percentage calculations on the 'Daq. They certainly don't look right at times. I've noticed that sometimes after kneecapping (when it's easy to do a quick mental calc.) the numbers don't always compute. Then again, it could be the wine. ;-)
'rejuvenate', perhaps.
...or 'prolong' ;-)
The "Start a new game" button
Is it there for a limited time only? I'd been thinking of porposing a game of Boardo, but then one sprung up over at MCiOS. Any suggestions?
new game
I made one a coupla days ago .. Inky agreed ... no-one else said anything
Rugby game
I've been considering using a game as a venue for ISIHAC pilg chat and news. Any takers?
Liverpool and Rugby
[Boolbar] Thankfully not, I had to stay at work as I was deemed to junior by Liverpool hosptial to be a medical escort. So I stayed at Macclesfield hospital and had promotion while my senior was out on the ambulance.
[BtD]Yes, yes, yes, yes!
Bob's idea
*thinks* hmmm .. I would hate to marginalise those who aren't going to be involved. I think most interested parties now go to the Pilg Game in Orange. There are of course, some people who are coming to Rugby who don't post in here, so whether they would start *looking* in here is anyone's guess. Then again, if we do do it it would only be for a month or so. [How about that? consecutive double 'do's' and 'it's'. Grammatically sound?]
not even going, but...
Valid idea, BtD, but splitting discussions and arrangements in two, in my experience, is inevitably a Bad Arrangement. So I would recommend everyone just look in The Pilgrim Game on Orange for Rugbypilg arrangments regularly, and someone involved keep posting the link to it here, or bookmark it yourself if you don't usually visit Orange.
As recommended above
Apologies for the cross posting, but details of the ISIHAC2 party in Rugby have now been posted on the Orange Pilg board. Jon Naismith, eat your heart out.
which level
junior once took his cat to skool and was asked by the teacher; teacher:junior why did u bring your cat to skool? junior:uncle,coz i heard my elders sister's boyfriend telling her that i will eat up ur pussy......hahahaahaahhh.o boy no be lie.
warri wan kill me oooooooooooo
o boy na 4 sizzlers o warri se wan woman carry small dog.after d dog don run entre nain d woman ask d security,have u seen enough?meanwhile she wear small microscopic skirt.nain security se we never see enouggh oo ur small dog?guy d babi bend down well well so tey every con dey show.nain she ask ve u seen enough?nain security answer yes we have seen more than enough........o boy no be lie.
Nice.
what the..?
What the hell is that about?
o boy no be lie
snorgs] e be de babi story bendi down for to look at me dog man yo no unnerstan? yo be crezi momma. o boy no be lie.
jokes
I got the sense of it, but I'm stuck on the word "nain".
nain
PJ] it means DWARF in french. See the poular song:-
Je voudrais etre un nain,
Pour avoir une grosse bîte,
Mais je ne suis qu'un géant,
Et la mienne est petite.
Just realised that attendance at the RugbyPilg will mean missing my mate's annual Eurovision party!
One song to the tune of the same song
UK] And your mates will be missing the Rugbypilg. Unless you invite them :o)
One song to the tune of last year's...
Btd] After swift negotiations, managed to book myself in 'round my mate's for Saturday 22nd, where we can watch the qualifiers and the contest itself (which he'll be taping), and pretend it's all happening live.

I really am a sad case...
Bollocks!
DIdn't realise the RugbyPilg clashed with Eurovision... What shall we do?
Euro-Trellis
We could perhaps have a Eurovision Break? The results of the voting are always really late - perhaps the scheduled entertainment will have finished by then, so those that need to will be clear to watch it. And I reckon we should have a sweepstake organised for the Eurovision result too... so there'll be a cash prize!!
You have to ask?
I'm sure you'll get over it, rab!
eurovision
oh dear oh dear oh dear oh dear
rugbyvision
I'll make sure there's a TV in The Study, eh?
Bad news
I'm afraid that e-pilg transcriber was in a horrible browser crash last night. He sadly has no recollection of the goings-on last night.
transcrash
what a relief :-)
Buttered muffin
Loobyloo] Darn shame I'd say ;o)
Dr Q] Nice to see you back, we missed you. Would you like to contribute long-distance to the Pilg? I'd like to have a "and this one was sent in by... "section for Mcers who can not attend. Cast your beady eye over the Orange pilg game and email me with contributions.
moomintroll
I read a rather funny news story about a man dressed as a moomin being run over by a truck in Norway and I was going to post it, but I can't find it anywhere!
ignorant rude w****rs
The tetchy game seems to be going quite well, I thought.
can anyone say "oven"?
Ok, ok, the "cool" weather (22 to 32°C or thereabouts) is officially OVER, here. Just in the last three days, it's all changed. Yesterday was a stinker of a humid day. Today, it was measured at 44°C (but very very dry) at 4pm.
I wanna icecream.
On the non-avoidance of ice-creams...
flerdle] I had two today, feeling rather gluttonous!
Weather
Did anyone else catch the incredible rainstorm in London yesterday? I did - indeed, I was caught by it. I don't think I've ever been out in such heavy rain - I didn't even know it was possible. Thoroughly enjoyable stuff all round.
Whoee!
When you've had enough, post the left overs to me would you, please? What was it like? It must have been some drop to elicit comment.
Saying 'bye-bye' for a few days ... speak soon
:'(
It never rains
[BM, Dujon] I was sheltering under the portico of St Martin in the Fields at the time and it was of tropical intensity – streets and pavements were a continuous flow of water. The worst bit lasted about 15 minutes, but my guess would be that it amounted to 1-2cms in that time. I was the slightly embarrassed-looking person in the business suit carrying his wife’s yellow umbrella with the duck’s head handle!
BTW I went to SMITF to see 'ZUM' a band that plays an eclectic mixture of E. European gypsy music, jazz and Argentinian tango. Very enjoyable.
more rain
The rain continues to rain here in the north of Wiltshire, I only hope it is dry in Youlbury, Oxfordshire as Little O' is going camping with the Cubs over the weekend.
ahhhhh the sound of rain
I live in Manchester and even when its dry its raining, now figure that one out!!!
huh?
[widey] fancy that, where I am it's the exact opposite, at least so far. Two "showers", not enough to actually wet the ground.
[INJ] Ah, those tropical downpours - several every summer in Bris. Be thankful there was no hail? *pines*
Manx Cats
[widey] I didn't realise we had another Nor'westerner in our midst! I agree with you about the moistness, though.
Mancunian rainfall
Manchester isn't all that wet. The average rainfall at Manchester Airport (1971-2000) is 807 mm per year. That's less than I get here in the sunny south (Surrey), with 828 mm. (1983-2003). Cardiff gets 1112 mm and Swansea over 1200 mm, the wettest large city in Britain. The driest would seem to be Cambridge, average 554 mm. Cherrapunji (Assam) has about 11,000 mm, the total for July alone being about 1800 mm. 60 mm a day - every day. Over most of lowland Britain (i.e. where we all live) you get that amount about once every 25 years.
panda leaves
There have been one or two comments about my punctuation, but I know what I mean and it ends up legible (more or less). Today I have picked up a copy of Eats, Shoots and Leaves from the library, hopefully some of the pedants round here will see some slight improvement in the next three weeks.
As a designer and Planning Supervisor, I wade through documents from the HSE on the Building Industry, anyway today I've been reading mostly Peer review of analysis of specialist group reports on causes of construction accidents Research Report 218.
I should not make light of other peoples misfortunes but on page 98 the Description of the Incident:-
A building was being refurbished and in the course of this staircase balustrade and handrails had been removed and plastic warning tape placed around the stair well. Upholsters were working on the upper floor in the neighbourhood of the stairs and one fell down the stair. well.

Rather than falling badly?
[Rosie] Ah yes, but in Manchester it does it all the time - a constant drizzle, rather than a few huge downpours. And even when it's not raining, it feels like it's raining. The rare clear, sunny day sees industry and traffic (well, moreso than usual, for the latter) grind to a halt, with crowds of people stumbling around, faces uplifted, blinking in slightly worried confusion at the big yellow ball in the sky. Hence, it's grim oop norf.
Persistent Mancunian precipitation
(Nik) A good point. Figures for rainfall duration are remarkably hard to come by but I strongly suspect Manchester has more hours of rain per year than my back garden, despite the lower rainfall total. Sunshine figures give some clue - Manchester has 1395 hrs annually (same as Sheffield, incidentally) compared to typically 1500-1600 hrs for inland southern England and the Midlands. Eastbourne gets 1848 hrs, making the retired gentlefolk even more prune-like than ever. Places like Oldham and Burnley are a lot wetter than M/C, and have even less sun. Manchester is not uniquely awful, weatherwise, not by a long chalk.
Raining in my heart
And to continue with that thought...
[flerdle] There was some hail in the rainstorm, amazingly. I know because it was hitting me. The whole thing was like running through a lake with a few bubbles in it.
Please send it over
My location has had this rain since the start of 2004:
January - 61.5mm
February - 108mm - 80mm of which arrived on one day.
March - 44.25mm
April - 31mm

My wife's lovely garden may be about to get the chop. There seems to be no doubt that existing water restrictions (use thereof) are about to be tightened. Urk!

Oz rain
(Dujon) That's 245 mm, against my 281 mm. Seems quite a lot to me, though your higher temperatures make it less "useful" hydrologically. But laying water out to dry is a bit of an indulgence in Australia, isn't it?
I'm writing this from my lovely back yard, powered by my clever new phone. [dr q] I got to keep one of the buggies featured on my house website, yay! If only i was small enough to fit in it!
wot rain?
[BM] It's not really hail till it's the size of giant golfballs ;-)
[Dujon] Urk, indeed. What has she been growing? I think lawn can be a bit of an extravagance, but a lot of other things can be made pretty water-sparing, but that depends on what they are. My own experiments in gardening had to be stopped a couple of years ago when I could no longer get the lucerne hay I needed, because of drought (no-dig style, lucerne hay topped with spent mushroom compost. Amazingly productive). I only ever grew veges, though.

I think I mentioned before, average rainfall here is around 100mm annually. This is a slightly old (1995) but still informative report on agricultural resources. Ironically, the largest crop here, other than dates? Alfalfa (lucerne).

Four inches
[flerdle] That's a bit on the dry side! Where does water come from (and don't say the sky) - dams, next door's river? [Rosie] It does sound odd does it not. That's supposed to be our wet season though. Winter - at least where my castle is situated - tends to be the dryest time of year. We shall see. Sydney's main dam (Warragamba, about five miles from me as the crow flies) is said to be down just under the 50% capacity level which does not auger well.
I'm not going to drill for water; let's try augur.
well, actually... let's go UndergrounD
[Dujon] Next door is at least as bad, if not worse - they have to resort to desalination of sea water. Along the Batinah coastal plain there are aquifers. The water itself is very high in calcium/lime but very safe, however because of the taste and the effect on kettles etc most drinking water is bottled springwater. There is a large mountain range about 30km inland, parallel to the coast, which gets the same to three times the rain that the plain does. There is continuous replenishment of the aquifers by seepage from the mountains, and from the flash floods that race down the wadis (dry gullies) when it does manage to rain. The rain, when it happens, is in the winter. The other main source of water close to the mountains are the Aflaj (sing: falaj), which are ancient and very reliable.
MCiOS problems
Anyone else having trouble accessing MCiOS? Another website I use was down yesterday, apparently due to Mayday hacker attacks on their server. I wonder if the same thing has happened to Parslow?
[snorgle] I can't see it either.
hyperlink
Well, as it's down, I'll put this link here, because otherwise I'll forget. Just a cute ferret story, although I recently saw a cat living in a garden centre, I just assumed it belonged to the shop, maybe it was a stray.
Nip!
Has Dr Q been visiting Mrs Trellis? [flerdle] Thanks for the info.
*snore*
Was in mediocre-smelling but still decent-looking New Wilmington, Pennsylvania this weekend eating Schweinflesch and getting heavily pissed. Kinda obvious considering the event is called "Hog & Grog". ;)
New Wilmington, PA
(Dr Q) Where's that, then? Couldn't find it on my atlas. Hope you enjoyed your Pork and Paralysis. :-)
more spears
Latest news in from the daq; in Celebrity MC moreteaplease has taken back the top from snorgle, but what is this!!!! blamelewis at No2?! a stunning performance after being kneeecaped just pipping ffiish.
Oink
It's hailing cows and chickens out there...
Hail, Mary
[rab] Sure is here too in Brum. Where's you?
Weee
[HB] Moist Manchester. Chorlton-on-Medlock, to be more precise.
Likewise here in Manchester's *other* Chorlton, Chorlton-cum-Hardy...
Silly names
No hail in Woodstock today. Sunny and bright here in Clopton.
New Wilmington, PA
[Rosie] It's a tiny town between Sharon & New Castle, right on the Lawrence/Mercer county border. You may be able to find it by the artificial lake in the shape of Alabama.

And yes I did. ;)

Slightly drizzly here in the Oakland section of Pittsburgh.
I'm back in Woodstock and it is p***ing down.
now you see them...
A torrential rain and hail storm half an hour ago washed away the newly-painted car park markings. Oh, how we laughed...
Penelope's storm seems to be on its way here. The last piece of blue sky is fleeing in a north-easterly direction while black clouds arrive with faint thunder.
Places in PA and other things
(Dr Q) Found Sharon and New Castle, but no New Wilmington, or Alabammy-like lake. Must be nearly in Ohio, it looks to me. (Bob the dog) Silly names? Near me is Fickleshole, consisting of a road junction, a pub and two farms. (All) Measured nearly an inch of rain Weds morning (25.1 mm) and quite a bit more today with a bit of feeble thunder. Good reason not to cut the grass or continue with my outdoor painting job. (Warlingham, NE Surrey).
[Rosie] Golly, I am glad I;m not in Surrey!

Well, bit of a given that one, really...

Weather
It's pissing down here in Turin and has been for over a week. Apartment block-residents (self included) who do not have autonomous heating (i.e. whether the heating is on or off depends on the calendar not on whether you need heating - April 15, all central heating off!) have been freezing their nipples off for the last fortnight, as it is colder than a witch's tit.
Rain
(Dunx) What I measured was the rainfall for the past 24 hrs, which I do every morning. So, not as bad as it sounds. :-)
sigh
Come to sunny Manchester where the sun shines even when its raining, which it does 365 days a year.................(rain I mean)
sigh
I know there are places that have more rain fall than here, but we do have a naturally damp climate, hence the boom of the cotton industry back in the 19-20 Centuries. Damp air is great for spinning cotton as the fibers are less prone to break and are easier to work. The same applies to wool. Are you all asleep now?
cotton and wool
Not quite. The Lancashire cotton industry had more to do with availability of labour and the proximity of a large port (Liverpool) than any climatic factors. Besides, the woollen industry was concentrated in Yorkshire, where the air is marginally drier, but frankly it makes bugger all difference anyway. Anywhere in Britain would be quite satisfactory.
Spinning around.
I used to walk past a cotton mill on the odd occasion on which I walked between the homes of a couple of my relations. One thing that struck me at the time - and I've never solved the conundrum - was that the building was large and had a huge number of windows, albeit those little six inch panes set into a larger frame. Presumably this was to allow natural light to access the interior; but the windows were never cleaned - or at least did not appear to be so. Still, I'm talking of a town called Leigh which also had two or three active coal mines and hundreds of coal burning fireplaces so maybe it was just 'natural' deposits. The air that came out of those windows - many were hopper type, hinged at the bottom - was hot. I sympathise with anyone who had to work in that environment.
why
coz
Raak
Isn't that more of an aak or an uhk?
Raak
OK, you win. My mouth explodes with delight.
Terrible implosions of unconnectedness!
[Raak] Shades of night is a friend of RavenBlack (the Advice contributor). Not massively interesting, no, but this sort of thing always jars my brain, especially on a slightly tender saturday morning.
Rrraak!
[Raak] It sounds like the "baby" in Eraserhead.
more soap
Meanwhile....over at Celebrity Mornington Crescent ; blamelewis climbs to the top, many congratulations (what or where is The Fly Floor).
sounds; one resource I plunder everynow and then for a new mail notification noise etc is http://www.findsounds.com/ click on "Need Examples?".
Actually Rosie your wrong!!!! oo errrrr did I say that!!! It does make a difference to spinning cotton if the air is dry and not moist. I admit the close proximity of an atlantic (via the irish sea) port (Liverpool) holds some merit but its not the main reason, if it were, Bristol would have been a good choice!! As for the "labour pool" most were agricultural workers who came into the developing areas to look for work in the "new factories". The populace of Manchester pre 1750 was much the same as the rest of the country.........
Lanky cotton
(Widey) Like anyone else I can talk bollocks from time to time, and do so, but I don't think I'm that far out about the climatic factors, though you've certainly got a point about the availability of labour. You're certainly right, of course, that high humidity is helpful, but what it boils down to in actual numbers is the difference in average relative humidity between Lancashire and the rest of the country and in all honesty I don't think it is really all that much. I don't want to sound too much of a pompous old fart but I am a trained meteorologist, albeit er . . . some time ago. (1966, actually). :-)
another question?
Cool........pun not intended.......I'm only going off what has been published in my local history books so I guess there is a lot of room for error on my part, I find it fascinating though the link between climate and manufacturing. I guess the other major factor is the multitude of fast flowing streams and rivers in the local, great for the early waterpowerd mills and shops...... I would be interested to know your thoughts on the present weather situation, is it my imagination or are we having more rainfall in the uk? Also it seems to be a lot warmer earlier in the year than it ever was in the past!......
boo hoo sob
I miss missiv trellis can't we av it back, g'uvnor?
missing missive
[widey] Some of the games are very slow and would probably welcome a euthanastic shove [not The Furc Game - that's sacrosanct] If no-one objects over the next day or so ... go for it
The weather
(Widey) The average UK rainfall has gone up, but not a lot, in the last 40 yrs. For instance, my own records, made with a standard raingauge, show an average of about 830 mm annually over the last 21 years, whereas from old data and charts I would estimate a figure of 790 mm for 1931-1960 for my place (NE Surrey). The rain has become more seasonal with autumn and winter wetter and summer drier. July is now the driest month of the year over a large area of the UK whereas 50 yrs ago it was about 4th or 5th wettest, certainly in the eastern half of the country and the Midlands. Summers are better! Winters are definitely milder than the 60's and 70's. This is only slightly due to global warming but mainly because we get a lot less easterly and northerly winds than in the past. The change in the circulation may in itself be due to global warming, but this kind of shift has happened in the past so it may equally well not be. I could write pages on this but I'd better not. :-)
Droughts and Floods
[widey] There is a number of factors which directly affect our planet and its atmospheric behaviour, quite apart from our own efforts to do the same. This is an interesting article if you are that way inclined.
[widey] Yes, I'd like to see Missive Trellis back too. I missed a lot of it last time because of my access troubles.
Kill them All!
Go on, go on, go on!
Sacrosancy
*wonders if we should perform the Furcation Game on Saturday*
*very quickly realises that's a rubbish idea*
Furcating
*has thought of an interesting variation*
Dentistry
(Softers) Couldn't think of a limerick line so here's the toothypeg news. There was a hole the size of the Arizona Crater in it, with the nerve almost bare. No wonder it bloody hurt. The dentist declared it a write-off and pulled it. All is now well. :-)
Tuesday 25/05/04, Radio 4, 11.30am
Just been advised of the following by my mate at the Beeb:
No Fixed Abode, Cricklewood
Phill Jupitus talks to Graeme Garden, Tim Brooke-Taylor and Bill Oddie about their early days as comedy writers and performers, and about their 1970s cult series The Goodies (1/2).
Here's a game we could play on Saturday - the Bad HTML game.
rab?
Chalky?
Just thought I'd break the silence :-)
Ah.
[Chalky] You know you're going to have to pay for that silence, don't you?
We could talk about the weather...
Same old... dull and overcast, cool, but dry.
[pen] Perfect running weather, then.
The weather
What will tomorrow bring?
rainbow skies
Tomorrow could bring the end of AVMA, and with it a new game. Any takers for "Spot Ruttborough's Ostrich"?
Yay!
Now where could that ostrich BE-E-E-E-E-E-E-E?
Frisky fish!!!
Today my Koi have been in a most frisky mood and have engaged in a mass spawning, must be the slight rise in the water temperature. I look forward to seeing their many offspring (and making a couple of quid when they mature!).
Entrepreneurs
[widey] That made me laugh! As a sprog I used to breed white mice and flog 'em. I never asked where they were going as some people feed them to their pet snakes. Nevertheless, the temperature didn't seem to make a difference at all to the production rate. ... :-)
So you were the white mouse supplier!
My Royal(Ball)Python, Oscar, used to love white mice. I used to feel a bit guilty feeding them to him, but then what the f**k they would eat us if they could!!!
What's in a name?
'Oscar' as a name for a snake?  Sounds a bit fishy to me.
FIRE!
Just ordered out of bed by an incessant beeping and the vague smell of burnt popcorn and told by the fireman standing outside our neighbouring flat to get out of the flat, whence we stood around on the lawn. Interesting start to the day, especially for the poor sods from that flat who have exams this morning and have to look forward to coming home to a water-logged, sooty kitchen, smoke-damaged flat and melted toaster.
yikes
[ZK] Lovely way to start the day.
[weather] It has slowly crept up to usually about 25-35°C here; some degree of aircon is a must now. No rain, of course. I think I'm becoming nocturnal.
ZK] Escape the smoke and examination pressure this weekend. Come to Brownsover Hall for the ISIHAC2 Pilg. You'd be most welcome! I'm sure Lib, Pen and Chalky would love to meet you too.
Indeed
excited
Blimey, that's the day after tomorrow. I now have 1 Jurassic "Radio Tymes". Most get more. Panic? Me?
excuse any incoherence; I'm only lately being introduced to Carling....
ah, sadly this weekend is much-needed time with my family; re-bonding over eurovision, Wogan-esque sarcasm and the traditional Spag Bol (ah, real food at last!!!!!). Have missed EV for inexcusable reasons these last two years, so shall be rather looking forward to catching up on the previously annual cheesefest. Otherwise, naturally, I would love to join you all. Have a good time on me. *tip of the day* beer is much nicer when accompanied by Polo mints.
Meantime, of course, the poor girls whose flat got burnt out have to live elsewhere for the remainder of the examination period, which I didn't realise.
Eurovision has nothing on what we have planned (and anyway TV can be recorded). Not so sure we can match the Spag Bol tho.. ;o)
I had the dubious pleasure of watching a semi-final of the EVC last evening. If you enjoy a few mid-teen check out chicks trying to make a quid and a heap of blokes singing falsetto (or have an injury; or aren't blokes?) this is for you.
Mind you, I wouldn't miss it for quids - it's got to be the funniest show on television each year.
Rugby Pilg
You're probably all on your way if not there already - but have fun! And make sure you get too drunk. That's important.
Seconding snorgle's sentiments
Yeh...
Hey, I loved it! The Netherlands should have won, in my opinion, but I won't complain about Ukraine...
Schwoing
[snorgle, Tuj] I certainly had quite a hangover this morning, though I understand others were more restrained. I think I good time was had by all, though I shouldn't necessarily speak on their behalf. Much kudos and fanx attack to Bob the dog (note small d).
thanx R Us
. . . . and Chalky!
Whoops, of course, and to everyone else who made the thing such a success.
Carrot
umm, Carrot?
Carrot (was it just one, or were they plural?)
And if I'm not mistaken there was a bottom too! Thank you everyone for such an excellent super-pilg. Same time next year?....
Vote 1 - Yes.
Vote 2 - YES [and I hereby volunteer to do the hotely thing]
and Bob - the Biscuit Game print is a work of art and is being framed to take pride of place alongside 'The Great Bear'. We didn't do it justice. Can we play it online pleeeez?
Vote 3 (from the Rickmansworth jury) YES.
More prepared alternative lyrics next time please. Merlyn's Bohemian Rhapsody has me in hurty squeaking stitches, as you all probably noticed (and no, I didn't have a Tenalady moment). I vaguely remember discussing American Pie with some sort of MC alternative lyric but I'm sure I wasn't volunteering. Perhaps it should be stored in the Sonnets game on Orange to see what incubates.
Vote 4 - YES. What a fantastic event, and a great location too. And what a wonderful bunch of people, who all got on tremendously well. At this stage in the proceedings, I'd also like to say carrot.
Vote 5 - YES. And is there any chance it could include a live game of "The Great Bear"?
Put me down as a YES as well. Nice venue, great company and I hardly felt any embarassment at my lack of preparation (although I will have to learn how to play a kazoo).
Oops that's embarrassment of course.
Old-fashioned MC, just like mother used to make
Chalky] The gauntlet's down - see the Lockisseum's Proving Ground.
carrot
[INJ] I think you were actually right the first time.
Great Bear
JLE] If so, I can bring my wall print of said map with me for team reference purposes.
grapefruit
[IncleKorks] Wahay - I'm there :-)
Wobbly
Just to let you know I'll be off piste for the next couple of days, as I'm travelling up to Edinburgh tomorrow for an interview. Feeling a little wobbly already... I also shan't be in the chatroom tonight for various logistical reasons.
"So, why do you want this job...?"
Good luck, rab!
Oooohhh.....
I see that there are suddenly two spare game spaces... Now, having worked out the etiquette of these things, I'm announcing my ideas for the replacements. I had a chat with Bob the dog after ISIHAC2, and we both like the idea of:
1] Playing Last Lines - inappropriate sentences that sound the death knell for a television programme (for example: The Money Programme - Has anyone got 50p for the meter? or Upstairs Downstairs - Rose! We're moving into a bungalow!").
2] Writing sales pitches for hard to sell items. The item must be described, and then the sale pitched in Estateagentese.
Well, folks - the ball's in your court. Anyone interested?
New Game
Lemon Puff
So was this uber-pilg recorded as you said it would be? Or do we have to make do with transcripts?
Recording medium
ZK] Half was recorded on to mini-disc (the second half)+ the end of games cabaret (which really was wonderful). We lost the first half due to a technical hitch :o( But I am preparing transcripts :o)
empty rooms...
9.50pm BST - is anyone going in the chatroom tonight?
Changing rooms
Sorry pen. I've been playing Lawerence Llewyellen-Bowen. 60 percent of wallpaper removed from bedroom. And thankfully all the plaster is where it should be! Fun.
[ZK] Unfortunately, the singing games and sound charades were in the first half! Still, that's all the more reason to attend next year's one!
chatroomier
[Lib] Never mind - I think we're probably all pilged out anyway. Stripping walllpaper? Wheeee! [Btd] Sorry I missed you.
Back from Richmond, VA
I'm back just in time to miss the e-pilg. Feh. Photos are here.
Rugby Photos
Darren has been kind - there are photos. Marvel at the thespery!
Or here?
Common-ents
[flerdle, PaulWay] They nicked our little badges!
Plate 40: I'm a wee bit concerned about that UFO about to alight upon LotUS' right shoulder.
Top hole, Dunx, thanks for posting them.
Did try epilg last night but it was quiet. Assume everyone sleeping off the weekends excesses.
picture this
Great pictures of everyone enjoying themselves....jealous? me? pah!
snap snap snap
Darren] Great pics - you can really see the detail on hiz nob. Dunx] Cheers for posting 'em!
Got home last night, and, as it was so hot, I decided I'd use the opportunity to run the Flymo over the lawn. I tell you - there's nothing like the smell of pureed cat poo pervading the warm air to keep you on task.
catmo
[UK] Ahh, the flymo/catpoo incident rears its ugly head. I've commented on this before, and recently remonstrated with a neighbour who doesn't believe his cat would poo anywhere but the litter tray provided. I tell you, you'd be amazed at the amount of shit one cat can produce. Starving them would seem to be the most obvious course of action.
Aaahhhhh..... NOT Bisto...
Pen] Sadly, they're my cats. As far as I'm aware, cats don't tend to toilet on their own territory, but ours never developed that quirk. At our previous house, our next door neighbour had fourteen cats, all of which used our garden, and I suppose they just worked out that the nearest patch of grass smelled right for business.
pushycats
Well, my cats nearly ALWAYS use my garden - although to be fair, one is so old she can't jump up on the wall anymore, and the other is so fat, he has some difficulty jumping up on the wall, and is quite funny to watch when he tries. So I'm always having to clear the garden, as we have a dog, too. We used to have a dogloo but it couldn't take the pressure, so now I just chuck it out with the rubbish. Lovely topic of conversation here today! :)
*dithering*
Do I take it that because there's been no comment on my games proposals (above), other than Chalks (who, I believe, would like a go at The Biscuit Game), there'd be no objection to my starting one or both...?
[UK] Go ferret, I'd say. I would suggest one tweak to the sales pitches one, which is that it might work a bit better if each person proposes the item which the person coming after them has to sell ... (a la things like Jeopardy). Then again, I suppose your structure would work more like The Book Blender on Orange, with people contributing when they thought of a cool idea. Don't know which would be better suited, tbh.
Love the pics...
[rab] a bit late, but... good luck.
[Dujon] Ooooh, they did too, the naughty beggars.
[pen, Btd] Phone line is dead, couldn't be there.
Hmmm this is interesting
Are there people living in here?
uninhabited
[Paulgeaf] We visit here from time to time - usually several times a day in my case. Have you found the other Mornington Crescent sites? They're similarly un-inhabited but there's a chat room on MCiOS, and we often camp in there on a Monday evening (BST or GMT). Have fun!
I've taken the plunge
Corporation dustcart is up and running. Winning move is a programme that I would definitely notlike to see scrapped (should be enough of a clue for anyone who knows me). If that isn't enough of a clue, it's one that Michael Grade has had a go at before.
Brendan] I'm giving some more thought to the sales pitch game, and I hope to post it in the next day or so, as long as the slot's still vacant.
nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!
There was Flanders & Swann and I missed it!
On The Slow Train...
ZK] And it was very good indeed! I have the whole F&S session recorded on my camcorder, but I have no idea how to transfer it to anything else...
[Dujon] Thanks for posting the corrected link. Safari's addition of line break characters can be pretty annoying.
life on mc server
[penelope] tanks for that. I must look around and work this place out.. I thought i was too old to find a 'new' area of communication online cheers :)
Uncle Korky's F&S Footage
[Uncle Korky] I can probably help you there - I've mailed you about it.
[Dunx] My pleasure.
[Darren] Thanks for providing the pics. I thought I'd put that in on my previous post!
exams
Woooo! One down, three to go. Then, only two more academic years before I can join the rat race and become even more bitter, twisted and cynical than I am now :)
testing times
Good luck ZK in the exams, is your time now your own? way back when, after our exams, we still had course work to do. The peer group crits took place on the last two days of term; older, bitter, twisted and cynical.
sees the light
[ZK, Inks] So that's why I'm not bitter, twisted and cynical! There's a lot to be said [which I may do, another time] for 'dropping out' of Uni, which I did for various raisins.
currantly speaking
Chalky] I hope you didn't eat them all at once;)
ZK] So come on then, which uni and what subject? (Good luck with the rest -- how well-spaced are they?)
peering
[Inkspot] What's a peer group crit? I'm imagining a ritual out of Maoist China in which each student in turn has to stand up in front of the rest and have their ideological errors stridently condemned, before making abject confession of their sins.
oh no! 'fessing time!
Classics at Birmingham. I applied to Cambridge but the bastards wouldn't have me! Shame really - I would've quite liked to be punting this time of year, but then some of my friends got into Oxford, so I'd have been forced to hate them :) I applied for Pembroke College as well, which would have been v cool cos 2 of the Goodies went there, as well as Peter Cook, I believe. Maybe I shouldn't have mentioned that as motivation in one of my interviews, or I might've got in :)
Back to exams, I still have Latin language to go, which is on Saturday morning, Greek language, which is next Tuesday, and my lecture exam, the following Wednesday (cram cram cram!). Luckily with the one I just took (Latin books) and Greek, we had take-home exercises which made up 40% of the grade and I did quite well. You only need 40% for the overall programme to pass for the second year, I think, which is ludicrous. [Inkspot] I hope my time is now my own, as I want to go home! :) I suspect it's all over from here, as my lease runs out on the 25th of June, and the property's managed by the university. My friend from school (same uni) seems to have finished for now, as her MSN name has read "sunbathing till September" for about the last week and a half. Jammy swine. :)

Now why couldn't I have written that much in my exam?
Question
Hello lovely people. I don't want to ask this question in MCIOS playground as the big boys are fighting. Anyway, may I just ask what people's understanding of the term "seafood" is? I've had a bit of a disagreement over it today in the jolly old office, and I'd value your opinions. Your normal service is now resumed.....
to me, anyway...
Anyfing dat comes out of da sea. Fish. Shellfish. yukky things like eels. Was it in the context of someone being allergic to it? Then it's often just shellfish.
Well, it depends what the meaning of "understanding the term" is ...
[Thos] Anything from the animal kingdom that came out of the sea. Fish, shellfish, squids, whatever ... I am far too ignorant to know what fishies live where, so in practice my definition includes freshwater beasties too. Not plant things like seaweed or little planktony things, though, even if they do come from the briny depths. The Blob-style mental image that arises for me is that of a large prawn, FWIW.
[ZK] Don't worry, you're not the only Cambridge reject in the world. ;) You'll find that 40% thing is pretty universal throughout this nation's fine universities, and indeed 40% over the whole degree will bag you an honours degree at most places ("only" a Third, but still ...)
fishyness
Hello dear Thos. We have a 'seafood' restaurant here and they serve anything that's considered aquatic, including molluscs and crustaceans. Did you know there's an edible sea urchin?
Simulposted with Brendan -but what the hell - I'll press 'submit' anyway .....
pin up time
Raak] You don't know how close that guess is. As part of the Architecture course we were given design projects which could take anything from a week to a whole term. The end of the process was 'the crit', in front of tutors and a group of students, it was inquisitorial and confrontational, others sailed through the process; me, absolutely terrified and nervous dreaded every single one. A tough crit of hard questioning gave no indication of how well, or how you had done everyone was grilled to the 9th degree.
It sounds bad, but the end result (which almost justified the means) was that you made sure the design process was robust. So, if ever you meet a building designer who seems a little (over)protective of their work....

Thos]Seafood; anything from the salt water sea? but Trout and Salmon could be served in a seafood retaurant, they may be considered fresh water river fish and therefore strictly not 'seafood'.

Unshellfishness
I've heard the term "seafood" used to refer only to shellfish and the like, and not to fishfish. I have also heard it used pretty broadly to include all fish, including those which have never been near an ocean. I think you can find precedent for whatever you want to argue
Salmon
[Inkspot] Surely the freshwaterness of salmon depends on where it has been caught? It is a fish that lives in both sea and reiver at different times in its life.

Then again, do they fish for salmon in the sea?

[CdM] This has a disturbing parallel in the number of piscivores and chicken eaters that call themselves vegetarian...

I sea food, I eat it...
Seafood, for me, is crustacean. Other stuff what comes out of the sea is 'fish'. Being descended from a fishing family (my great-grandfather and his sons were fish merchants in Aberdeen; it's probably where I get my habit of getting up too early from), I'd like to think this was some kind of official position, but it's just my usage. To me there's a clear distinction between 'seafood pie' and 'fish pie'; if the former included cod or whitebait or some such, I'd be most upset.
You shall have a fishy . . .
[Dunx] As a piscivore myself, I often describe myself as vegetarian to avoid confusion - if a restaurant/hotel can cope with veggies, then they can cope with me. Plus telling people that you are a piscivore means they lock up their alcohol.
Greetings
Hello. Nice to see about five new games have started across the servers since I went away - was that deliberate? Now I need to work on my space-time-continuum distortion device in order to find enough time to be able to play them!
Welcome back rab. I trust all went well :-) Re. your STCD device - you may need to factor in a couple of hours to catch up on the lively discussion in MCiOS - an eye opener if ever there was!

[all] Perhaps we shall find out which stance Thos adopted in the jolly old office disagreement. I was born in February - does that make me a Piscivore?

oops
I think that when I mentioned shellfish I meant things like prawns and lobsters and stuff too. My excuse is I grew up far from the sea, so I have never really gotten into fish and other watery edibles, cos they were always either muddy and disgusting from the local creek, or several days old and liable to be a bit dodgy...
Wells
[Chalky] I haven't heard the outcome yet (they're a postal organisation, and that combined with University mail systems means I have a bit of a wait on my hands, grrr) but I did enjoy myself in the interview room, even if I totally fluffed my way very badly through what might have been the killer question of "Is it new and is it useful?". Hate waiting.
Oh, and my odds are just under 30%, I understand.
All the best rab - hope they hurry up. And say yes.
[Seafood] Thanks for your answers and your discussion which almost entirely reflected the debate in my office. I personally hold seafood to be shellfish but it seems that whilst many others agree, a sizeable group also includes fish (both sea fish and fresh water fish interestingly). [Rab] Good luck
Carted
I appear to have accidentally stumbled on the winning move for Corporation Dustcart. Can it be reinstated?
Get Carted
Honestly... There I go, my first game as well, and I take the trouble to advise of the winning move further up this page too... Tut tut tut... I don't know... *mutter mutter*
endings
Raak]Is there anyway you could stumlbe across the finishing touch to Bad Tempered, Critical & Tetchy Game? or rab, could you advise what the winning move is please.
I'll reinstate the Dustcart shortly; meanwhile surely you can work out what the winning bloody move in BTC&TG is!
*phew*
Well done, rab!
And thank you rab for the clue, hehehe. What will we do with our new game slot? Missive Trellis?
Daq
I wonder if the BBC's data base has gone awry. I'm listed as sixth in the world. This cannot be correct.
I'd be proud. who do you own?
Mini cheddars
Congratulations to Darren on making me laugh at this hour - the game is usually sublime, but that move was rather fabulous :)
Puffing chest
[ZK] Calum Best. I had to go and have a look! I've no idea as to who he is and have been 'sitting' on him due to the day trading being reasonable. Mind you, not being celebrity minded and being totally ignorant of most people listed within the various categories, this is not surprising. *scratches head and disappears into the sunset*
Woo!
I got mentioned on Radio 2 embarrassing Sybil Ruscoe. Genius!
What's he been up to?
Belated comment
[Dr Q+] Thanks for the pics. Great stuff! Mind you - and I've probably said it before - the thrill of whizzing around continual left or right hand bends holds very little interest for me. Bloody frightening when one watches some of the drivers, quite apart from some of them greeting a wall with a hearty handshake :-(
That was not meant to be funny - far too many steerers have finished their careers in that manner.
more of the best
Dujon] Sixth is a great achievement (I'm envious), I think it was penelope, getting herself into a similar position in the players chart that prompted the whole Celebrity Mornington Crescent thing.

Unfortunately the daq will be skewed for the next month; Big Brother takes to the air waves yet again from next Friday (28th).

big sis
[Dujon] Yup, it was me. I got to No. 4 in the world, although I have no idea how. And now? How things have changed... I got an email from the Celebdaq people yesterday warning me that my account has been inactive for 30 days and I have only another 30 in which to re-activate it otherwise it will be lost and gone forever. :o( and yet... I still can't be bothered!
Slimming down
I feel the front page is looking very slender just now. As God intended, of course.
rab] Where I come from, we call that tempting fate ;)
...as long as the next game's nowt to do with Big Brothel...
Big Brothel
[Tuj] Perhaps a game of breathing new life into tired old TV shows or film franchises?
hellooo
I've decided to start posting on forums other than lock and orange again, so a big hi. and ZK, I'm in the throes of exams at the moment also so good luck and remember pro plus and the answer is generally option C...
[nights] How I wish I still had multiple choice questions! :) I have a bit of a thing against Pro Plus but I'll certainly remember that as an emergency option! What exams are you throeing? :)
Multiple choice exams are ok, except for the ones we had for mid-term Physiology. There, anywhere between one and all five of the options could be correct. If you missed any, or added extras, you were deemed incorrect. They were written in the most excruciatingly sneaky manner as well. It is possible that wrong answers were marked negatively ie right +1, no answer +0, wrong -1. I wouldn't have put it past him to do so.
exam excitement
well, 4500 words of essays (by after the bank holiday), two hours of french, two hours of russian, two hours of european studies, and about 20 minutes of russian oral... uuurgh. I seem to remember from combined sciences gcse that most of the multiple choice answers are C... wish I had that option now. what about yourself?
Have so far sat through two Latin exams (one 2 hours, one 3 hours) and have yet to sit my Greek exam (three hours, taking it well into "No Fixed Abode, Cricklewood") and my exam for Introduction to Greece and Rome, a further three hours. I handed in my Greek and Latin assessments in January - 40% for each of those subjects, I believe, which I thankfully already know I've passed.
On the upside, I never have to do a Latin language exam again. The downside is I have to do more literature....
Poo
I failed to stun the judges last week, but am the next on the list if someone declines an offer (which I doubt will happen). Ho hum...
...
...though it's not all doom and gloom as I've just been offered a job in Saarbrücken...
[rab] Your experiences are uncannily matching those of one of my officemates ... (first reserve after fellowship interview, [I'm assuming that's what your thing was?] ended up with a job in Germany). Good luck with whatever happens.
chuckling
oh the utter silliness of the Monday night e-pilg. Fair sets me up for the week, it does :-)
You are Number Two
[rab,Brendan] Do they say that to all the unselected candidates?
Who is Number One?
[Raak] Well, if they do, it's particularly cruel -- my colleague seemed very much under the impression that he was in with a chance (albeit slight) and was well advised not to commit to anything else until he heard back from them. I'm sure you've had sufficient experience with funding bodies to decide whether malicious cruelty is part of their makeup.
In my case I was told over the phone that if a place were declined, it would be offered to me. I can't see any reason why the lady I spoke to wouldn't tell the truth. In any case, I seem to have a contingency plan in place, so whilst I would like a Fellowship rather than an ordinary postdoc (better support, apart from anything else), I'd be happy with what I've been offered so far.
Herr Rab
There are many worse places than Saarbrücken, but you'll have to take your thermals.
monday pilg
well, I stuck my head around the door, then went and worked for an hour, and when i came back you'd all gone - kuh...
Pilg
I hope it wasn't too whiffy.
Two things...
1. Anyone else catch part 1 of the Goodies retrospective on Radio 4 this morning?
2. If any Doctor Who fans in here haven't heard, Billie Piper's been cast as the new assistant.
It raises the horrible suspicion that Chris Evans was, at some point, under consideration for the Doctor's role.
She can't possibly be as bad as
Bonnie Langford, can she?
Casting Who
How about Chris Morris for Doctor Who?
second in line -
I have a very goo dfriend who applied for a Fulbright Scholarship a couple of years ago, to study in the US from Oz. They narrow it down to 12, and she was informed that unfortunately she made it to number 13 and they were very sorry. ANYWAY, she was inLondon at the time, then heard a few weeks later that someone had dropped out and so she was in teh cut again (theyonly award one it seems) and could she get back to Sydney for an interview..... needless to say flights were booked that very day and YOU GUESSED IT, she is now at UCalifornia Davis doing a Veterinary PhD as a Fulbright Scholar......
Carrot
Absolutely pukingly drunk (flatmates far more sympathetic than anticipated!) Jesus revelations. Anyone want to share?
bedtime snifter
ZK]I'll join you with a small dram, treadmill again tomorrow. Sympathetic? bad exams?
[ZK] Film soc social night... italian then vodka revolution... martinis! sophisticated! yay! (and sick on someone's shoes, apparently)
Oh dear. I did snigger though.
exams
ZK] is this uni finals ? (you mention last exam....)
the mother of all hangovers
Unbelievably, I had three glasses of wine, about three apple sourz and one WKD blue. We'd got to the pub after my exam finished around 2, but I hadn't eaten since about twenty to nine. We thought I was a little tipsy (I'm good at being well-behaved) until I collapsed outside my friend's flat. I think the message above was written approximately 4 hours later, when I found myself inexplicably able to move around for a short period of time. I've spent most of today trying to piece together yesterday! [st d] Strangely enough, I haven't even finished my exams yet - I was merely with Annabel and Brad to celebrate the fact that they just had. Lol my flatmates are sooooo fond of me now!
[Btd] Virginia Bottomley? ;)
hangover cure
[ZK] two paracetamol, a litre of water and another hour's sleep - trust me, this had me up and about and rigging a set after a night in Moles...
Plus ça change
Good to see that student piss-artistry is still an activity pursued with some vigour. But don't think you're breaking new ground, in the broad sense. I was doing it in 1963. In those days puking it up provoked ridicule and humiliation, equivalent to "touching cloth" in a farting competiton. Does a similar culture prevail today?
If it does, I don't remember!
That being, I don't recall enough of the day to know :)
The solution
[ZK] Well, there's your problem. The trick is not to eat for at least 18 hours before you go on a binge. It won't make you less sick, but it's a lot cheaper.    ;-)
"oops, I forgot my purse"
And the joys of getting every single drink free... :)
[ZK] how'd you manage that? our cocktails-themed social cleaned me out...
Well, because it was during the day, and I'd come straight from my exam, they invited me out to the pub but I protested that I hadn't brought my purse with me. Annabel (whose last exam it was) said that was ok because she'd buy me a drink....hey presto and about 7 drinks later...oddly enough, simply by not packing cash, I managed to pull the same trick last night - I paid for a round with my card and then got free drinks all night (this time by sticking to J20) although in fairness, the guy buying them rather likes me.
But do you like him back, ZK?
Very nice lad. Not quite my type. Next time we go out, I'll be getting the drinks in...it's the way of the world :) I only accepted them all because I was skint and very, very warm.
[nights] Any more exams today?
no, just baffling exec handover. not sure why I went. it's more essays than exams at the moment, although they're on their way like so much bad news... (sighs and finishes eating pizza)
nostalgia
Crikey, I've just been looking back through the archives and realised how many games finished in my absence!
We should have one of those fabulous "cost-cutting" games...
[ZK] ?
eg "Lady Chatterly's Loofah" "Wuthering Hillocks" etc
hillocks to you, sir
I only have 2 ideas so far, but it's always seemed like a fun game :)
ho hum
No-one, looking through this place, would *imagine* that i have been hanging around on the net for waaaaaaaay too long...
[ZK] Je comprends. sp? is there meant to be an 's' on the end of the first person singular?
I think it's "comprends", although it's over a year since I stopped studying French and the net's not much help.
[ZK] I am reassured all the same. I shall spare you the knowledge of how long it is since I stopped doing French...
conjuger le verbe 'comprendre'
yes, the first singular present has an S on the end... the net is rubbish for french unless you already have a half decent knowledge of it. which lets me out...
Bonjour me sewer
My French evening class ended last night (entry level), needless to say I can confidently say I am no help to you with this at all, but if you want to say your name or go shopping I can help you pay. ("Je voudrais one of those and one of those s'il vous plait)
Le singe est dans l'arbre.
cost-cutters
3 Monkeys type of thing ? Sounds good. I might just go and start it.....
I've spent the day watching 90s french pseudo-noir film. I can swear a blue streak in french now, but I have no idea how to write my essay... [Ink] some of us still shop that way in France - "Avez vous this dans un large?"
le chat et sous de la chaise...
[st d] Changed for technical reasons to Le singe est sur la branche, because apparently otherwise one has a monkey enclosed within a tree (boo! hiss!)
[nights] It was great - I got to the airport in Rome and suddenly realised I'd completely forgotten that I'd need to learn another language. The week consisted of pointing at things and hoping they spoke English. Shocking. :)
Big bore?
All 12 housemates have arrived, strongly opinionated in the interview process I hope they still will be. The house looks wonderful, it is smaller, cramped and set up for confrontation. And tomorrow any housemate that loses the task does not get their suitcase! My expectations are high after the cosy-cosy niceness disaster of last year.
Gay people, extroverts, a posh girl, a homophobe, a man in a thong and a transsexual (did I understand that right?), most of whom seem to be students or activists of some kind, or office workers. Personally I think that Stuart, the posh blonde girl and the straight little adorable scousish lass will all get eaten alive within the first week. But I don't know if I can bear to watch to find out...
Big Punch-Up
I think there's going to be fisticuffs by the end of the bank holiday. if not on screen, then definitely between my housemates - they were a bit excitable...
Dee Wun in the Big Brooter Hoose
Indeed. I had some friends over for the launch and there was a lot of OMGing. In previous years, particularly last, I thought the producers didn't go for the obvious conflicts, going for more subtle personality clashes. This year, they seem to have though "oh feck it, let's just go hell for leather". I too predict violence this year. And that bedroom's going to be well stinky. We admired Shell's (?) nous in selecting the top bunk of a bed, rather than going straight for a double before realising there's not enough to go round. I do like the idea of the alarm ensuring everyone has to get up. The outside baths are also ominous - one wonders if they'll be shutting off the bathroom at some point...
ISIHAC back
Crossposted everywhere: ISIHAC is back on Radio 4 this Monday, 6:30pm.
Excellent.
girls on top
With only a couple of days passed, first impressions for me, I'd would like to see Kitten win with either Stuart or Vanessa to go first.
If Kitten got evicted, surely she'd refuse to leave?
Kitten annoys the hell out of me - I'm not being anti-anything (some of my best friends are lesbians) but she does seem only in it to piss everyone else off. What happened last night anyway, I was a having a four hour dinner with my housemates. From first impressions, Shell to win, Stuart to go first, the stuck up idiot. I live with a guy like him and he does my nut. OK, done ranting.
Harry Potter
Sooooooooooooooooooooooo much better than the first two movies. Go see go see!
HP
Well, POA is my fave HP book, and I think David Thewlis is a great actor (not to mention Gary Oldman, Alan Rickman, &tc), so I am greatly looking forward to seeing it! I want to choose a quiet time with not too many kids, so I decided to pass on the premier weekend. Perhaps later this week, as I hope to have Friday off..(must check it's not half-term in Cardiff though).
Go see! *still jumping up and down*
Plagiarism
ANy one in possession of the current "Radio Times" (Bill Oddie cover)? There's an article in there on opera music used in adverts which shamelesly rips off "Who-do-doo-doo-doo-doo-do-do-do-do-Hitler", page 28 I think.
HP Source
I saw HP3 last night... will compose a review for Books@MCiOS later.
The eighth plague
[Bigsmith] Not seen that... on the other hand proving that it was our idea may not be so straightforward.
Potty
[ZK] Yes, I got dragged along and quite enjoyed it - better than the first two, I thought, and very atmospheric.
Yay! :)
[snorgle] if it's any help, it's DEFINITELY half term in bath. takes twice as long to get anywhere or do anything. grr.
[snorgle, nights] Half-term here too, in commuter land. It takes only half as long to do anything or go anywhere. :o)
[pen] It is indeed much easier to get to work. Now if only we could get rid of those OAPs that have to get to the shops by 9am. I can only assume that they drive so slowly, that'll take the rest of the day to get back home.
It was easier to drive in today, almost a pleasure coming to work! but why, when they all the time in the day world does Waynetta insist on dragging her brats round town at lunchtime. They are not half as cute as (For those at work with speakers on their pc BEWARE!!) Boobah, the current favoutite with our toddler; now the Bobinogs have finished.
Boobah
The mind boggles!
Separated at birth?
Inkspot] Has anyone else noticed the uncanny resemblance between two erstwhile players of MC and Children’s TV programmes? Boobah and Bob the dog are extremely similar to Boolbar and Bobinog. Are they perhaps related? I think we should be told.
Children's Hour
[Btd]Very spooky! You wouldn't have had any mix up like that in my day. Way, back in the early sixties I don't think there was much if any pre-school tv; unlike now with CeeBeebies. It is more likely back then sat around the radio to Listen With Mother.
[ZK]Time to come out of the closet, which did you have 'My Little Pony' or 'The Care Bears'?
Watching
[Inkspot] Surely "Watch With Mother" was on even in the early 60s? I can't speak from personal memory of course, but I thought programmes like Muffin the Mule were of that vintage.

OK, fifteen minutes a day hardly counts as extensive programming, but...

Watching with Mother
[Inkspot, Dunx] The Woodentops? Rag Tag and Bobtail? The Flowerpot Men? (the real ones!) Andy Pandy? Surely all that stuff was on by then? Or did it only exist on my childhood video that we watched ad nauseam? (I remember going to a fancy dress party as Looby Lou - both myself and my sister, in fact)

[Inkspot] I think I missed the Care Bear craze by a couple of years - by the time I came along we only had the magazines (which were jumble sale buys) and the movie (terrifying). We do, still, however, have all our My Little Ponies in a box in the toy cupboard, which my younger sisters still play with (and now I fancy a go cos you've reminded me! :)) We also have the video, even though I can't think for the life of me where it's gone. I'm *sure* one of my earliest memories is one of the boys in the village turning up with that as a birthday present for my older sister. Angie - are you about? Anything to say on the subject? I suspect those videos were actually made in Sweden (they had american voices)...I haven't seen it in ages but that would explain the lipsynching.

....Sorry. Went off on a nostalgic tangent there....
Rain
At the risk of raising someone's ire. [Rosie] How are we going? We had 16mm of rain during May (15.5mm of that on the 26th)
TV
[ZK] Andy Pandy and the Flower Pot Men were definitely televised in the early 1950s - regrettably I can remember them (B&W of course). ... :-(
Ah. I have no concept of time, you see. Andy Pandy ran for ages though didn't it? I liked them anyway, although maybe I just loved them so much because I got to see them over and over and over....
Rain
(Dujon) I've just read that Sydney and surrounding areas are having a something of a drought, but I don't know what your average should be, so I can't really evaluate your one-day downpour. My guess is that it's not that unusual. Here, I got 72 mm in May (normal is 61 mm) but there was a 10-day dry spell in the middle. Year's total is 351 mm, 7% above normal, so nothing dramatic.
One Fat Lady
Do you remember the job I didn't get? Well, cos I didn't get it I subsequently got a job I hadn't applied for. Well, that's now been blown out of the water because I got the job I didn't get... Are you keeping up at the back?
Counter number one
[rab]Does that mean you are going to bite there arm off; or mull it over for a day or two?
[ZK]My Little Ponies was a lucky wild guess but please say you never had a Cabbage Patch Doll surely one of the ugliest toys ever sold. Andy Pandy is still going and has been given a fresh lease of life to a young generation along with Noddy. (The things I have to watch in the name of 'bonding' and good parenting ;))
[Inkspot] Well, it beats watching EvoStik. Depends on the kind of bonding, I suppose.
[rab] What a confusing, if ironically successful, life you lead. Congratulations.
catching up ...
[rab] Is this Mccongratulations?
[Duj] Whose ire do you risk raising with your weather-talk? :-)
[Inkspot] I think I had a tiny plastic one from a jumble sale, but not a real live (so to speak) big squishy one. I think that was before my time as well. I well know about Andy Pandy's new lease of life, and Bill & Ben's (not a fan of the new looks) - I'm quite fond of the new Noddy though.

However, for student viewing it's Balamory all the way! :)
[rab] Congratulations?
Whee
[Inkspot, Dunx, Chalky, Nik] Thanks! It's a better job, so I have indeed accepted it. Which means I'll be returning to Edinburgh for three years starting November. Wow.
Edinburgh? Wow! Congrats, and Carrots!, rab.
. . . at the back
[rab] Now I understand. Horrahs and congrats!
oooooooooooh!!
congrats rab! :) what is it you'll be doing now?
On the news this morning...
I note with interest that Bob the dog has quit his post at the CIA...
Open door
With 50 ways trundled off, any suggestions for new and original games for when LbLR is completed.
golly, I go away for a couple of days
crazy how things move on here. I go back to the midlands for a family funeral, and you've all moved on. As far as children's crazes go, I'm not sure I had a childhood. I might have blocked it out though. and congrats rab on the job - well done you!

[ZK] don't tell anyone but me and my housemates are fans of Balamory also. shhhh...

Right, off to my french exam, then to brave bath city centre as I have no food again. ha ha ha ha ha.
childhood
nights] sorry to hear you wee at a funeral.
Childhood was the bit when you couldn't tie your own shoelaces - ring any bells ?
lost consonants
(that was a genuine typo, though possibly a good entry in Lost Consonants - my apologies)
[rab] Congratulations!
childhood
I couldn't tie my shoelaces last week, st d, does that count?
not if it's through alcohol, no.
How about a game involving..........
International land marks, either natural or man made.........
Widey's Arbitrary Selection
How's about a game where we all arbitrarily suggest something to be involved in a game, and that could in some way link to the next move, such as by naming the finishing move (structure a la Corporation D)...
can we have one based on car colours? I had to try and say 'cheyenne red' at work today while keeping a straight face.
completely off-topic
I seem to be unable to remember the Arabic word for "fork" (the eating implement). I have been trying all day, and now know knife, spoon, table, airplane, tree, apartment and letter, all fine.

I'm not sure why this disturbs me.

Apologies to all concerned, but I've gone and ranted all over the Limerick game. Perhaps I shouldn't have done so, but IMHO the fact is, if you allow just anything, and if you have to twist it too many times to get it even close to fitting, then what you have is no longer a limerick but freeform non-poetry and therefore not acceptable in a specifically Limerick game. Even if the ISIHAC team come up with bad (read: unfunny or the wrong kind of nonsensical) limericks sometimes, at least they *are* recognisable as limericks as far as rhyming and scansion goes...
Limerpricks
[JLE] No need for apology - you've had plenty of support and quite right too.
[JLE] When you criticse, you tend to do it strongly, which perhaps makes people who don't know you less receptive to your message. But I agreed with the message.
[JLE] I, too, agree with the point you were making. Now, of course, I'm sure someone could come up with many examples of poor scansion on my part, but I do try, and it is very frustrating to see a line show up with clearly falls short of the mark. Still, as I said in the game, if the quality dropped I'd rather go elsewhere than join in a scansion war.
Clouded in, as usual
I'm attempting to watch the transit of Venus - as usual the clouds have interfered! Urk! Currently trying through the Worth Hill (UK) site (the local CSIRO requires a program for which one needs a credit card to access ... bastards!) No success at this stage ... surely the sun rises before 05:25 GMT at this time of the year? Ah well, back to cyber viewing.
Yeah!
I've now got sunlight and a site (here)
Swing low sweet chariot
Unfortuately the sun is so low that attempting to project its image is a waste of time. The tree leaves look good, mind you ... which reminds me ...
Brilliant sunshine here
Just shot most of a reel of film through a 1000mm lens, with umpteen different exposure times. Should have results in a few days. Of course, they'll all look like a white disc with a black dot on it...
And yes, there was a sheet of aluminised mylar over the objective.
*seriously jealous*

[Dujon] Due to lack of clouds and location location location, I saw the lot, projected through binoculars. Have dodgy photos.

Venus
(Dujon) Don't worry, there'll be another one along in 8 years. June 5/6 2012 and you should be able to see all of it. Starts 2216 GMT, ends 0429 GMT. We might just see the end of it (sun rises here about 3.45 GMT). Then there are a couple in December, which would be much more favourable for you, but not until 2117 and 2125, which would not. I saw the transit here by projection, having assembled a telescope from the various lenses and eyepieces I've got lying around, plus a cardboard tube. Even so, there's a limit to the fascination of a black dot. Good weather; sunny, but with lots of cirrus, southerly breeze, temperature 28°C. Sweaty night coming up.
Sweltering in the heat.
Hello, chums and pals. How are we all? Raak, nice photo of the lense thingamy. Not an officianado of teh gadgets myself, but "stargazing" of "Venus spotting" can be interesting. I'm often given to ponder the wonder of the "up the there and yonder".

So, how are we all, people? I note with apprehension the talk of scansion problems in the Limerick game. Hope it doesn't get out of hand. It's funny, but just last night I was reading through the old "Ballykissangels" game from Mr. Wild Pants's old site, and recalling with a tear of nostalgia the uproar and chicanery the night Kezar and myself were accused of impersonating the good Dr. Q in an effort to rectify a poem that had floundered due to apparent scansion difficulties. We were both quite innocent of the charges brought against us, you understand. Though we still bear the terrible bite marks from Rosie's Lobster-torture.

Ah, the memories.

Anyway, I hope no one recoils in horror at thew thought of Evil Dr. Thrax crashing in here once again after a sort of "Black Sabbatical". I'd like to extend a warm greeting to you all - in especial, Rosie whose punishments keep me in order, Chalky whose correspondance has always been kind, and was often a source of encouragement when I felt very deeply depressed, Dujon whose appreciation of my insanity has not been forgotten, Dr. Q, if he's around, whose love of American Football I share, Korky who used to amuse with tales of uncomfortable bowel movements at work, ZK, if he is perhaps the artist(piss-artist perhaps?) formerly known as Zakalwe(I'm just guessing), and who conspired with me to turn a Pants Game into a horror story long ago, Darren who was most forgiving of bad behaviour, and JLE whose skill at MC far outstretches my own and often has me spellbound.

Greetings to you all, and to those I don't really know...I should look forward to getting to know you all better.

Well, as the Hand of Time picks the Nose of Eternity, and the Snot of Knowledge is wiped on the Trouser Leg of Fate, I realise that I've rambled on a fair bit, and feel compelled to give way to a fellow speaker.
*proffers hankie with a stern look*
Hello Thrax :o)
Blushing.
Thank you, good lady.
back for more
[Thrax] Good to see you back. Bad news by the way that not only is that chap ZK, Zoological Keeper but also a female and a student.
sparing
Where on Earth (or otherwise) have you been, Thrax?
Doh!!
Inkspot, thank you for the welcome, and for putting me straight on the identity of ZK.

Ms. Keeper, my heartfelt and humble apologies. *blushes with embarassment*

snorgle, hello there. Good to see you. Yes, on Earth I have remained. In Swindon to be precise. What joy to live in a town whose entry is "Where the f**k?" in my Atlas. How are you, Sir or Madam? (I can't remember your gender I'm afraid, and am taking no chances).
*astonished*
Welcome back, Thrax! Nice to know you're still around!
Grinning.
And good to know you're here, Sir. Tell me, are you still on The Force? I seem to recall you were one of the Boys in Blue. Still doing that to earn yer crust?
"Evening, all"
No, never been in the constabulary. I'm still sweating it out as a housing officer for a lesser London Borough, although my recent elevation to Void Management Officer means I've gone up two payscales and I no longer have to deal with the public. Whoopee!
Trying to dust cobwebs from ailing memory.
Hmmm, I seem to recall one of the Pants regulars was a copper. Thought it was you, Sir, but must've got me wires crossed. Perhaps it wasn't you who regailed us all with the "Digestion story" then either. Doh! Hey ho. So, a promotion, eh? Onward and upward. Sounds grand. Congratulations.
I was intrigued by your opening post, when you mentioned reading through the Ballykissangels game from Pants. Do you have some kind of arcane and eldritch way of accessing this sadly deceased site, or did you copy loads of text off the web?
Lamenting it.
Alas no, Korky, my friend. I saved the page out as an HTML file long ago before Pants MC closed down. Kept it for old times' sake. Had I known in advance that the site would expire, I'd have saved out many more, as some contained real gems of hilarity from many many fine MCers. Alas. A moment's silence is called for i think.
Io Thrax.
[Thrax] Quality lying, sir.
miss
I'm female, Thrax - and reasonably well (if intensely bored at my job - AGAIN!) I SO need to get a job which isn't always on the phones..
Freakout
Howdy, Doc. Pleasure to see you again, my good Sir. Life treating you well? Been enjoying the current season of ISIHaC via the net? I'm often given to wonder what your chums in Pennsylvania make of it if ever they happen to be present and hear it when you're tuned into the show. I bet they'd think we're all lunatics on this side of The Pond, what?

And greetings, Dunx. How'd you do? "Quality lying" though? Not sure I follow you. I don't believe I've told any whoppers here today, or are you referring to my moves in the "Swear to God" game?

And Snorgle, a lady, eh? *Doffs hat in gentlemanly fashion as redolent of some Oscar Wilde drama for no obvious reason other than it seems in-keeping with my character* Delighted to make your aquaintance. I recall we always had a severe shortage of female company chez-Pants. Chalky of course remained until the biter end, and your name rings a bell, but ladies were, it must be said, not merely few and far between, but also most sorely missed. Still, count yourself lucky that you never fell under the lascivious(sp? no idea), roving eye of that chimeric lothario Kezar. A fortunate escape for you there. *Ahem* Anyway, I'm sorry to learn that your job is most unsatisfactory. *Sigh* They do say work is a rotten way to earn a living, do they not?
Hi Thrax
Hi Thrax, it has been a long time!!!!
Freakout
Why, Darren, 'tis good to see you too, Sir. How are you, me old China?
[Thrax] You divine my intent correctly, sir. Apologies for any misapprehension; entirely my own fault for being insufficiently clear in my sincere wish to convey my compliments. I am very well, thank you for asking, although rather fatigued from a foolishly early start and a surfeit of exercise these last two days. But such is the burden of the long distance runner, or at any rate one who aspires to such a qualification.
Oh, and work's a bugger at the mo, but that is an entirely separate conversation to have away from these hallowed halls.
Freakout
Ah, that's all well. No apology necessary, Sir. I took no offence. So, a long-distance runner eh? Sounds exhausting but rewarding. Groovy.
ISIHAC in Pittsburgh
I have made a few converts...one of which has taken to MC like a duck to Nick Knight. ;)
[Dunx] You've given up the bike?
Hm. I seem to recall that the PantsMC regular who was a policeman was the person who went by the name of "Corkington" AFAIK.
Bike vs Feet
[Dr Q] No, but not cycling as much right now since I am in training for a marathon in the autumn (Portland, OR on the first Sunday in October - Portland, ME iss the same day as it happens). This is the same race I was training for last year but had to abandon due to injury.

The more I run the more convinced I become that I will return to cycling, but I feel vastly better than I did three months ago and I am sure that I'll get more out of whatever exercise I continue with as a consequence.

Hello, Thrax, old bean! It's nice to see that you haven't totally forgotten how to access the weird and whacky world of the Morniverse.
I'm going to have to start believing in telepathy, which to hard-nosed rationalist like myself would be a Damascene conversion, because about 24 hrs ago, before any of this appeared, I said to myself "I wonder if old (young) Thrax is OK?", and here he is, FFS. Neither Kezar or those FUCKING LOBSTERS have done for you, then, mate? Excellent. No more to say, really.
[Thrax] I'm doing OK, thanks. It's a pity you missed the uberpilg in Rugby.
[Thrax] Not a problem, rather something to amuse me after my brief absence, although similar mistakes have been made before :)
ZK] only online I hope ?
Freakout
That's great news, Doc. Does this converted duck perchance have internet access? Might he/she at some point brave the hallowed turf of this most jolly arena?

Ah! yes, once again, Jonathan, you've come up trumps with the info. I seem to recollect that Corkington was here and there occasioned the familiar soubriquet of "Corkers" - I think Chalky was initially responsible for that one - and perhaps therein lay the genesis of my little misinference. How are you, anyway?

And hello to you, Duj, my friend - or do they really use the term "cobber" down under? - I trust you are well? 'Tis indeed a glorious feeling to be back among the Morniverse, as you refreshingly term it.

Heh, you know, Rosie there are those who subscribe to the scientific principle that the human mind does generate enough brainwave energy to transmit like a radio broadcast at times, and that telepathy is indeed possible. I'm uncertain as to whether or not it can emit across the divide between Swindon and, er, Surrey wasn't it? I'm Surrey I Haven't a Clue. In any case, I tried discussing this with the FUCKING LOBSTERS, but found them to be most unco-operative. Difficult to establish telepathic communication with a creature that bears a thick exoskeleton and seems forever intent upon shooting up yer arsehole every time your back's turned. *Shudder*

I'm glad to hear you're well, Darren, my friend. Alas I knew nothing of any "uberpilg". Sounds either charmingly continental and noble, or wickedly decadent and filthy. Either way, I'm most aggreived to have missed it.

And thank you, ZK, for your most willful clemency upon my faux-pas. I am relieved. *Bows*
Uber-pilg
Thrax] Well, a large number of us all buggered off to a swish hotel in Rugby to record our own ISIHAC, and a fine time was had by all. Details are on Orange's To Be A Pilgrim game, and Merlyn has actually created a fine website with transcript and photo's. We're planning to do another one in May next year, so keep your diary clear.
Freakout
Huuuhh?! Oh I wish I'd known. I'd love to have attended and met up with you guys! I'd give anything to be able to get outside these four walls and meet people. It gets so lonely being stuck in here 24/7 on my own for months on end. Tell me, Korky, this place you speak of - do they have facilities for disabled people? If so I'd give anything to meet with you all next May. Anything!
facilities
Depends on the disability, I guess. If you're talking imparied mobility/wheelchair access then I didn't notice any bedrooms downstairs (except in the outbuildings) or lift within the main building, but perhaps others can recall better. I guess a quick phonecall to Brownsover Hall about the issue wouldn't hurt.
And, nice as it was, if Brownsover weren't accessible, I'm sure we'd all be happy to look at alternatives.
Freakout
Well, Projoy, I am indeed a user of a wheelchair, and thus a ground floor room or lift would be necessary(I live on the first floor as it happens), otherwise it's a "Fireman's Lift" situation. Regrettably there's more obstacle to be overcome though. Rugby's a fair distance from where I live, in Swindon, and I can neither drive nor load/unload the chair myself. Furthermore, all my family and friends live more than 2 hours from my abode, and I very much doubt any one of them(since they're not MCers themselves) would be willing to drive for two hours to pick me up, drop me off, make their way off home again, then come back two days later(would I be correct to infer that this is a weekend break?) and drive me back frm Rugby to Swindon then go home again.

See, there's no way I can use a train either. Not without a friend to accompany me.

I'm not really sure how it could be done, unless one of you fine fellows lives in the West Country and would be willing to give me a lift from Swindon.
OK. Not being a driver, I'm afraid I couldn't help on the lifts thing, but conceivably this could influence our choice of location. There might be places that Swindon is on the way to that are just as nice as Brownsover. Here's a list of wheelchair accessible hotels in the UK. Anyway, not for me to decide on behalf of the participants, of course, but maybe worth a bit of research.
[st d] Er...well, that mistake hasn't been made since I was about eleven or so, face to face. I was not happy, as you would probably gather, and have cultivated somewhat of an obsession with the colour pink ever since....
Shameless interruption
Morning all! [Thrax] It's nice to see you back. I must admit having only caught some of your antics during my brief tenure on Pants but it's good to see people return from beyond the Reality Point.

[Bob the dog] Thank you very much for the bottle of cider you bought me - I shall be enjoying it this evening with dinner!

wheelchair access
Thrax] would it be okay to just get you really really drunk so you could just fall asleep in your wheelchair ?
ZK] I am truly intrigued now. How come this mistake was never made before you were 11 ?
Didn't she say it was only until she was 11? Personally I was always mistaken for a girl and my sister was generally thought to be a boy. That pretty much sums up the power politics in my family.
aha !
BM] of course. I was thinking that was a bit strange. I remember people saying "what a beautiful little girl" when I was 4 or 5 and being really pissed off by it. Darn pink tutu my Mother used to make me wear.....oh well, I'm still intrigued but instead am now imagining ZooKeeper to be heartstoppingly beautiful.
cute children
My three brothers were all very blond and pretty when ickle. We're all fairly close in age and relatives/friends would cast their eye over the boys exclaiming how bonny they were and save the piteous glances for me [the brown-haired freckly girl]. It was at that stage that I decided I needed to develop a personality.
oh yes ... [Thrax] good to see you in here :-)
what a drag.
The last time I was mistaken for a girl was at the age of 23, but it was from behind and my hair was half-way down my back. The only other time I guess the lipstick and frock had something to do with it . . . .
Mistaken Identity
When I was a little chap - up to the age of 7 or 8, I was often mistaken for a girl, much to my fury at the time. If you saw me now you'd realise why the same mistake has not been made for quite a while. Even in drag I think I would be about as convincing as the late great Les Dawson - or for that matter Roy Barraclough.
PS
I suppose I ought to terminate that posting with a quick
Knickers, knackers, knockers !!!
[St D]
Somehow I imagine not just ZK but all the female Crescenteers, none of whom I have met, to be heart-stoppingly beautiful. Call me a charming old romantic, a dreamer, a visionary, or a typical male internet nerdy type whose sole female interaction comes from Tomb Raider. It's up to you. Personally I'm going for the visionary option.
Hear! Hear!
Having met 4 of the female Crescenteers (lib, penelope, Chalky & Norma), I can at least confirm some of that vision. And I'm sure that they are shining examples of the rest of Crescentdom. We can only hope that they look upon us in a similar light - despite having actually met the likes of myself :-)
changing the subject entirely, I found a version of 'Boardo' when clearing out my room in halls prior to moving out next week (sniff). Anyone mind if we play it here?
[st d, Breadmaster] Of course I'm heartstoppingly beautiful. Only today, three men looked at me and dropped down dead. :)

[st d] As to being 'mistaken', I've never quite been able to forget when I was in the balcony at the swimming pool in Wellingborough, and half a class of boys decided to try tp ask me out. Their opening gambit was "are you a girl?". Needless to say, this particular Zooological Keeper was not best pleased....and I didn't say yes...The mistake probably wasn't made before because I used to wear skirts all the time. Post 10 or 11 I was rarely out of jeans.

[nights] I'm game!
turn on your speakers
http://www.potterpuppetpals.com/sexy.swf
If you've got a minute....
Well it's fairly obvious (to anybody who has ever met me) that I could never be mistaken for a girl in real life, but my speaking voice is naturally high-pitched enough to have been mistaken for a low-pitched female voice over the phone (when I said "hello", the reply was "erm, are you Mrs Ellis? We only have a record of a *Mr* Ellis at this address"). In fact I know several women, all of them contralto singers from music college, who very definitely have lower speaking voices than I do...
The gender divide
One can feel one has truly come of age when, when you answer the telephone, people mistake you for you father rather than your mother (speaking as a male). Not sure what that'd do as a female ;)
...and on a totally different subject
Oh, and now I've won a game (hehehe) is there some sort of scoreboard? Having noticed the very old-looking one over at MCiOS, and considering that there isn't (yet) too much of an archive to wade through, could there be something of that sort for this beatifully conceived server?
potterpuppetpals
I love that site! The last time I checked, there were just 2 shows, so I assume that's a new one. Unfortunately, it's also very popular, so I'll have to wait to see it!
dreams
[Breadmaster, LotUS] Well, you haven't met me yet, but I'm sorry that your dream will be shattered if you do - either that or you will drop dead for real. :-)

[Tuj] I'm moving backwards, then. I've been mistaken for a teenage boy on the phone by telemarketers, and not just once. Perhaps it's the slightly surly business-like way I answer when I've been interrupted as well as lowish voice pitch. As I assume they're not allowed to sell to minors, I really love answering their question "Is Mum or Dad there?" with (100% truthfully cross my heart and all) "Nup. Bye."

Voice on the phone
I'm told my voice when I'm on the phone is much lower than when I'm speaking face-to-face. Not that I answer the phone with "Menswear" or anything. ;)
Rugby
Thrax] Don't recall Brownsover Hall looking particularly wheelchair-friendly. IIRC, there are steps to the front, and the rear access is over shingle/gravel. However, I'm sure that were the same location used next year, all MCers would be only to happy to assist in any area that you needed. Obviously, the staff should be able to make arrangements if they knew in advance that you were coming. Obviously, getting from Swindon could be more of a problem. I know Chalky came up from the west country, but she didn't drive. However, if we all put our heads together, I'm sure we can come up with a way.
Access All Areas
[Brownsover Hall] Mr. Brain reminds me that there was a disabled loo next to the mens and a ramp up to it. Also a side entrance (opposite the stables, near the carpark) had the words "disabled access" on a sign. I must also say that Mr. Brain is frequently unrealiable, especially after a few pints and The Biscuit Game.
Access more than you remember
[brownsover hall] IIRC, the route between the stables bedrooms and the rear of the hotel was paved and reasonably level - the outside tables were sitting on gravel, but that was only a short stretch. There was also a paved route from near the front door steps around to the rear door which is wheelchair accessible, I'm pretty sure. As UK said, I'm sure there's a way, and plenty of assistance if needed.
Back again.
Well, Penelope, UK, Boolbar et al, that actually sounds reasonable. Essentially any ground floor accommodation would be suitable, and it's only for a weekend(?), so I'm sure it shouldn't be difficult. At risk of asking for too much, I could do with a wee smidgen of assistance during the stay if anyone is willing to volunteer a hand - perhaps a workload shared between two or three? When I say "workload" incidently, I'm referring to little more than pushing me across that gravel, cutting up some of whatever meals we order and helping to slip on/remove socks and shoes. Are their any kind souls here who might be willing to chip in a bit? I'd be most grateful.

Oh, and st d, falling asleep drunk in my wheelchair is - ahem - not unprecedented.

Jonathan, They mistake you for Mrs Ellis, eh? Interesting, but when you get your regular correspondence from Mrs Trellis of North Wales(as we all do of course), for whom does she mistake you? She addresses me as "Ms. Fernandez" - the wheelchair user who was in Eldorado and The Office.

ZK - hearstoppingly beautiful, eh? Raaaowwwr. Stop it with your wicked alluring imagery or I think I'll start to experience 'Charlotte Greene' syndrome. Rosie and I both fancied her for years with no idea what she looked like. Ha!

And last but not least, Hey, there, Chalky. I've really missed you a great deal. I do hope you're well. I didn't forget you BTW. You got a personalised greeting in my opening post, but I think it may have slipped orf the page by the time you got here t'other day. How are you, anyway? Long time no hear.

And with that, I shall depart for the moment, and no doubt be back shortly. Addidas!

*Sneaks out of page singing "Voodoo Lady" By Creme Brullée*
[Thrax] Willing to offer any of that kind of help, if I'm there, which I'm fully expecting to be.
*Echoes Projoy*
Freakout
That's very kind of you folks. Perhaps a little nearer the time, we'll chat a wee bit about things just for clarity. You can email me at anthraxhirl@freakout.freeserve.co.uk Indeed I'm happy for anyone here to email me for badinage as you see fit, upon whatever subject you like. Except "Reality TV". *Shudder*
intrigue
Now that my intrigue as to the extent of ZK's beauty has been satisfied (does one satisfy an intrigue ? in fact is that even th eright word ? mmm. Anyway. Now I am intrigued as to exactly why mr Thrax is in a wheelchair, and also why he needs someone to cut up everybody's meals. Is that just a personal OCD you have ?
Freakout
LOL! Yes, st d, I have a very rare medical condition that means I can't stand the sight of everybody's meals not cut up before we all dine together. Ha. It's a rare psychological disorder, but I can't cope with anyone tucking in before everybody's orders have been not merely brought to table, but properly disected and divided up into segregated components(sometimes even quantified and noted down on a clipboard for archiving). I got so frustrated by this once, that I endeavoured to take matters in hand one evening at a dinner party, and lunged towards a butler, with a knife and fork, as he emerged from the kitchen with two plates of Duck A L'Orange. Thinking himself in great danger, the man dropped the two dishes, pulled a gun and shot me in the abdomen. Ever since, I've been confined to a wheelchair and someone has to "cut up everybody's meals", as you acutely observed, on my behalf.

I trust I've satisfied your intrigue on that matter too. *winks
Good lord, the girl in the wheelchair in The Office was the one from Eldorado? I remember seeing her on an Esther Rantzen programme a while ago (that I happened to flick into in the middle of, honest, really yeronna) in a piece about critics. She was talking about how the critics were unfair to Eldorado. The funny thing is that they had the art critic Brian Sewell on too, and she hated him. I have never seen anything like it. He was asked something like, "So what do you think of artists personally?" and he replied in his typical manner, "Oh, I just want to stamp on them like cockroaches." And she went completely nuclear - "How can you say that about human beings! How can you say that!" He just sat there twiddling his glasses with a taken-aback expression. It was lucky she was in a wheelchair really or she might have gone and decked him. Two people who simply didn't gel, I felt. But nice to see that Nessa's rages weren't entirely simulated...
Freakout
Actually, I was at school with the girl in question. I used to have lunch with her everyday, believe it or not. Hmmm, I'm not sure who should be more ashamed though, BM - Julie for being this Nessa to whom you referred in a God-awful soap about British Ex-Pats living in Costa Del Tawdry, or you for admitting to watching Esther Rantzen. Heh. I guess we'll call it a nil-nil draw, shall we, my friend? LOL!
Freakout
Oooh, I've just had a thought. Anyone up for a game of Go Johnny Go Go Go Go? I'm itching to try it out here on this server. What do you think? I take it you've all seen the famous LoG sketch?
ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...............................
We often play said game here in the hospital..........LoG, gods amongst men!!
Spare Games
[Thrax] I'm not familiar with the game myself, but there are a number of game openings at Orange MC since today is the annual Orange Festival of Crescent.

[rab] Apologies for unwarranted trumpet blowing.

Freakout
Nice one, widey. Glad to hear I'm not alone around here in my appreciation of the League. Er, for the benefit of those of you who aren't familiar with the game - such as your good self, Dunx - Go Johnny Go Go Go Go is a card game that three of the characters play one evening in the Royston Vasey hosipital, St. Mary of Bethlehem. Essentially, it seems that two of the fellas have made it up on the spot - "it's a cross between Hoover and Eight Men Down" - with over-complex and nonsensical rules. They then explain them at breakneck speed to the third character, impressing upon him, "you'll pick up the rest as we play."

In essence, the game is not that dissimilar to MC, and could therefore be played on a website such as this. Instead of our moves being train stations, they could be cards, like "Seven of Clubs", "King of Diamonds", "Ace in the Hole" etc. with appropriate comments about 'scoring' and 'tactics' etc. just like how we play MC. The winning move, instead of "Mornington Crescent", could be "Go Johnny Go Go Go Go".

I could set up such a game, with a heading containing the explanation of rules(to be largely ignored, though not contradicted. Anyone up for it?

As a final thought, if you haven't seen the sketch, I strongly recomend checking out The League of Gentlemen. It's one of the best programmes I've seen in a LOOOONG time. The card game features in Season 2, and also in the DVD Live at Drury Lane, where they, like Python before them, perform some of their sketches before an audience.

So, anyone care to join me for a hand of Go Johnny Go Go Go Go? You'll pick it up as we play...
Transit pic

I don't know if that's a sunspot just above 3 o'clock, or just a speck on the film. I have about twenty more pictures, but they all look like this one. :-)

Transit pic
(Raak) Excellent pic. Not sure about the "sunspot". I don't remember seeing any when I projected the image with a small telescope. I used to be a keen observational amateur astronomer myself but not these days, but I'm one the few amateurs to know something about celestial dynamics (orbits, perturbations, 3-body problems etc). It's a guaranteed conversation-stopper.
League of their own
LoG great series, this site has many wav files including That's a Go Johnny Go Go Go Go
oooooh
Nice one, Raak. *still jealous*
Ani Miles Away
[flerdle] Griz (he's a bit sleepy at this time of the year) asked me to pass on his best regards to wallaby and also the hope that wallaby's transition is not some sort of permanent state.
??
wallaby was fine last time I checked, and sends his good wishes to Griz. She says that Griz probably needs some glasses, or a nice long snooze.
[Thrax] I am in the presence of celebrity, albeit at second remove! I offer according respect. If you ever see her again, tell her that I am not ashamed to say that I thoroughly enjoyed Eldorado. Well, not very ashamed.
[Raak] I'm sure you know that sunspots generally appear only around the solar equator and tend to come in groups, like a line of bubbles... which is pretty much what they are.
[BM/Thrax] I quite like Eldorado too, if truth be told. I detest all other soaps, however. I still play the Eldorado theme to myself sometimes, when I am alone with keyboard or guitar.
Freakout
Nice pic, Raak. Very grrovy.

Yes, well, I did find her on Friends Reunited a couple of years ago, Breadmaster, and wrote to her, but I can't recall whether or not I got a reply. Hey ho.

I never watched it myself, Darren, except for a few minutes here and there, which were enough to put me right off, I'm afraid.

So, who here watcheds the Football? Sacré Bleu!! A defeat snatched from the jaws of victory if ever I saw one.
Well what *do* you expect from a manager who substitutes our best player (Rooney) with the proven international failure Emile Heskey? Whose inept challenge gave away the free kick from which the equaliser was scored...
Zooks !
[ZK] Are you really a Zoo Keeper ? If so, what type of animal keepeth thou ? Little fluffy ones ? Scaly slippery ones ? Big bold smelly ones ? Please do tell. And at which zoo ?
On the other hand, if you aren't really a Zoo Keeper, then I'd guess with a moniker like that you must be a teacher !
Zooks!
[Blob] Student. :) The name itself derives from an episode of The Goon Show I have on tape.
Greenslade: "A flannelled fool approaches the penguin pool."
Neddy: "Aaah, good morning, zooological keeper!"

[Thrax, JLE] I'm just so gutted because we were actually playing decent football for once - every other match I've ever watched, I've been sitting cringing at our defence. And who'd really take it out on James? You could if you were feeling bitter but I'm more inclined to point the finger at Heskey and Gerrard (and then, possibly, James) Whoever was brought on for Owen though, fair enough - I thought he was particularly unspectacular. Of course, if Beckham hadn't missed the penalty, the French mightn't have suddenly summoned up the confidence to win, but, hey, there you go. *thinks* Next match, I'm getting the Doritos in. Then we'll win...I knew ordinary crisps wouldn't do the trick...
Re Becks
[ZK] Thanks for clarifying that - so, a student zoo keeper then.
[Re England/France] I think it's a little unfair to say "if Beckham hadn't missed the penalty" - he didn't miss exactly; his attempt was saved. To me a miss is when the goaly doesn't have to bother coz. the ball's gone over the net/round the side/backwards/vertically either up or down, or deflated on the penalty-takers toecap.
... panalty taker's toecap.
(Third time lucky)
... penalty taker's toecap.
Re Harmison
Hey! We won the 3rd Test [against NZ]. That makes me very happy :-)
En-ger-land
And we came second in the Le Mans 24 Hours race at the weekend - a bit more of a success than coming second in the footie (or the rugby....).
Cricket
I was elated by the cricket, shame the footie took the edge off it... Still, in some ways they were similar, very close with England just holding the edge, just one stayed with us and one spectacularly went pear-shaped.
Credit to both teams for doing well against decent / very good opposition, and to the cricketers for not only getting the whitewash but for an excellently entertaining series. Oh, and the chance to hear Blowers cut off halfway through relaying the match situation to talk about buses.
[Blob] Indeed. I retract my insensitive interpretation of the English language.
As my old mucker Mozza once wrote and sang!
I was happy in a drunken haze, but heaven knows I'm Miserable now!!
oops
Changed the words slightly, but you get the gist of what I'm getting at!!!
Widey old chap...........
I think it was something like this I was happy in the haze of a drunken hour, but heaven knows I'm miserable now and being as how I had to watch the game in france I bloody well am!!!!!
Blowers & Aggers
[Tuj] It was a great test series, capped off by the Mark Richardson v Ashley Giles epic sprint. I like the home series because BBC Radio 4 LW webcasts the match -- I can listen to all of the pigeons and Weapons of Cake Consumption while I'm at work. ;)
A slow-medium aircraft crossing the field of play...
[DrQ] There's such an English charm to it. And yes, I saw that sprint to, superb. What was Richardson wearing!?
Mark Richardson's unique attire
[Tuj] Looks like a mid-70s speed-skating suit.
And all in that lovely colour scheme. Excellent!
"I like speed and I like the thrill of it."
-- George Bush the Elder, 41th President of the United States, after skydiving on his 80th birthday
the timezone change never ceases to amaze me, it is still tonight where i am but for you guys it is already tomorow morning. where can i pick up a copy of the rule book? is it legal to play the biscut game if i have never had a true cup of tea(just that american stuff)?
cookies
[Snagandorf] Play away old thing! But just remember you won't be able to dunk.
i did once buy fifty packets of earl grey for a dollar, i put one directly in my mouth and sucked on it for half an hour, does this count as tea or did i stain my teeth for nothing? it may take an extra turn but i can still envoke the mighty coffie dunk of java. i just turned twenty one, i have only began to confront those wh call me kid, i refuse to be called old thing!
I'm not 19 till August and I love being called old thing! :) Makes one feel silly (in the dash good way), what.
Felicitous ageism
A common facetious greeting in the pub among men of my age (61) is "Good evening, young man". More, I say, more.
hahahaha(cough)
[Rosie]Nights out with you must be a scream! ;)
I remember reading in Hardy's Far From the Madding Crowd that Gabriel Oak was (quote from memory warning) "of that age when people begin to stop prefixing 'man' with 'young'" - and he's then revealed to be 29. Ever since, I have thought of 29 as the age when one stops being young. That means I have nine months of youth left.
Auld
[BM] People will still call you "young man" but they'll do it to humour you.
Senility
(Boolbar) You're right; that's why we oldies do it, to take the piss out of each other.
Age
For some reason, I think of 50 as the boundary. I can see it in the distance, like a barricade across the road, rapidly getting closer.
young man is fine,but i work as a cart pusher at walmart(a job usualy reserved for those under age 18), and i get called "hey kid". when i tell my coworkers how old i am they are supprised(apparently i look quite young for my age).
has anyone tried to play chess by mornington crescent rules?
that way madness lies
[Snagandorf]Yes, and you can still hear their pitiful screams on dark winter nights..
Ageing
(All) The one difference you will all notice is that between the ages of 50 and 55 (or thereabouts) you will lose the ability to change the focus of your eyes. Regarding your eye as a camera, you could say that the lens is still quite clear and forms sharp images, the film is more-or-less as good as it was, but the focussing mechanism will seize up and there is nothing whatsoever you can do about it except get reading glasses.
presbyopia is da word for it
[Rosie] You're lucky if you noticed it that late... most people do in their 40s, though it depends on what they do, and how long their arms are :-)
roasting
It's at least 43°C, dusty outside and dry as a bone... I think I'm starting to look forward to my holiday...
Presbyopic adaptation
(flerdle) My knuckles graze the floor. This of course is why I play the trombone. Where are you, for it to be 43°C? Not Oz, at this time of the year, surely? A pleasant 18°C here. Sun in and out. Light breeze. Very British.
ook
Oman.
*sighs*
Moved out of my first-year flat today. That means I'm not a Fresher any more....time to start intimidating smaller people. At last! My time has come!
Fresh faces
I thought one was only a Fresher for about the first two weeks of first year... But I must say, I think Freshers' Week is wasted on the Freshers - much better in subsequent years.
age
You're old if you're old compared to your friends, and young if not, I think. (My friends range from 11 to 60+, and I'm nearly 29, so I get to feel young and old - and I spend my time either enviously wishing I was older in terms of experience and knowledge or younger in body).
[ZK] Make the most of it. Before you know it you'll be a miserable embittered Finalist, and then that's it. However, if you survive as a Finalist, you may have the option to become a Postgrad, which is best of all because you have less pressure, less work, more spare time and a real superiority complex. That's my experience anyway...
Wisdom
[Projoy] Having recently discussed with three of my closest mates (all of us are 40ish to 50ish) what we would do differently if we had our time over again, the answer was unanimous, unambiguous and immediate : shag more girls while we had the chance - by being (a) bolder, (b) unconcerned about rejection and (c) less fussy. (Substitute as necessary for your gender and sexual orientation) - That's the best advice our collective 200-odd years can come up with.
small comfort
[Blob] Would you and your friends please broadcast that at every opportunity? Especially the bit about being less fussy? Many thanks.
shy
[Blob] Not being bold, concerned about rejection and being fussy. I remember my 20s well. Can't say much will have changed since though.
[pen] Unfortunately the word was girls, not women...
Freakout
As someone who's never ever ever been a hit with the ladies, there's probably no one on this planet less fussy than me. However, if anyone here breathes the words, "beggars can't be choosers," they'll get a slap for preaching to the choir. Sadly. 'Tis a lonely life I lead.
[JLE] I would hazard a guess that Blob's advice also applies to those over 30 who haven't got lucky yet. Besides... there's nothing wrong with a younger man.
Freakout
You should tell that to the ladies I've had a liking for on occasion, penelope. Speaking for myself, I've been quite keen on ladies a couple of years older than myself, but tended to be rebuffed because I was too young, and they were without exception always partial to older men.
Well, I'm still trying to find someone, but I've come to the conclusion I'm going about this all wrong. It's so much easier for fish. So, from now on, I'll only date women who live underwater.
... much later
I must have done something right for a change. Yesterday I received payment for some work I have been undertaking for the last few months. No, not a lot of money, but enough to splurge on a meal out for my ever forgiving wife (and save me doing the washing up!) So we headed down to the local club and spent a few moments moaning and groaning over the extortionate prices being levied for the meals and eventually plumped for the special of the day - meaning, of course, the cheapest. On joining the queue for service and having finally managed to get within a couple of yards of the ordering station my good wife (bless her little cotton socks) noticed a sign twirling in the airconditioner's breeze. It proclaimed 'Two for the Price of One', or similar. Needless to say we had a rather rapid conflab and finished up with a wonderful chicken dish (her) and a rather good rump steak (me) both with all the trimmings. So an hour or so later we had eaten, drunk (she a lemon squash, me a schooner - that's 15 fl oz - of lager) and returned home sated. The moral, of course, is get yourself a wife/husband and, who knows, in thirty three years time you too may experience such fortune.
[Dujon] If it's late by the time I get home from work then it is always a pleasure to find that between my pockets and my wife's purse we can scrape enough pound coins together to raid the local chippy. [age and fancies] I've always found the most attractive women are around the same age as me, so in thirty years time I'll be gazing whistfully at OAPs.
. . . Oh, and I might have learnt to spell by then. Have a free 'h' on me!
musings
[Duj & Bool] 'Tis remarkable that food - whether it be the eating of, the cooking of, the shopping together for, or the spontaneous 'grab a takeaway because we can't be arsed to cook' type, just has to be one of the most joyously satisfactory elements of being in a meaningful relationship.
As for age differences ... my late husband was a couple of years older than me; my erstwhile partner was 18 years older ; my current partner is 8 years younger. No discernible pattern. Apart from the fact that they were/are all Librans and of Celtic persuasion.
[Blob] wisdom - so it's true what they say then? We only ever regret the things that we DON'T do. Hmm ... glad I got stuck in then ... :-)
mused
BTW my little pearl of wisdom above was mostly a wistful glance back to our youth. I'm happily married and two out of the other three in the aforementioned quartet are in long-term relationships. So the advice is really directed at the Young1 Free2 & Single3 amongst you.

1 Young at heart.
2 Or any price really.
3 Or as your conscience allows !

bold advice
Thank you Blob for that pearl of wisdom. I shall bow to my elders and betters on this occasion and head to Battersea tonight to watch Germany Vs Czech with my colleague Miguel from Portugal, who has revealed to me that his strategy for watching EURO 2004 matches is find a punb where there will be as many of the nationality actually playing. So tonight I am hoping for lots of German or Czech girls. I don't seem to have had much luck recently, and this I put down to a couple of factors
a. I seem to predominatly go out to the pub next to work, so hang out with work colleagues, many of whom are female, which lessens the chances of being in a position to chat someone up/be chatted up.
b. weekends I have been going home to see my mum (and until recently, dad). Again....
c. Most of my friends seem to be either married or in relationships or FREEZE up around girls.
d. No-one seems to help out really. By this I mean that if I have a single male friend and a single female friend that meet I will stir it a bit to see if anything happens - sometimes it does. No-one seems to do this back.
e. I am fat, ugly, loud, irritating and have lousy personal hygiene.
Lonely bleedin' hearts
Oh dear - there DO seem to be far too many singletons in the Morniverse ... *dons cupid wings*
Bah, humbug!
Consolations of the single life:
  • The TV remote is where you put it.
  • If you have not finished the marmalade, there is still some marmalade left.
  • You go to films because you want to see them.
  • If you burn a meal, you just get a takeaway instead.
Toast
[Raak] Point 4 works for couples as well, unless the words "Can you just keep an eye on . . ." were uttered prior to the burning.
marmalade
[Raak] And Point 3 applies only as a benefit if the marmalade is still in good condition. If it is old and clinging to the sides of the jar as only the last desperate dregs of marmalade can, and you are reluictant to buy fresh, new marmalade until the old one is finished, then having someone finish the marmalade for you is a good excuse to go out and buy a new one. Does anyone want to come over and finish off my marmalade?
[pen] You only go and see films when your marmalade is in good condition?

Oh, I'm back from a wee break in Wales, btw, off to Cornwall on Friday...

[pen] Ah, what a romantic come-on...
Freakout
I second that. A woman who invites you round for marmalade is clearly far more kinky than a woman who invites you round for coffee. I never get invited round for any marmalade. Either nobody finds me appealing, or I've never met a woman with a toaster. Either way, it's a crap life really, and I feel certain that I shall spent it lonely, unloved, and cursed with a rumbling stomach.

In addition I personally don't believe any of this twaddle about advantages to being single. If there were any, people wouldn't go on the pull and get paired off. There are of course advantages to not sticking your head in a blender, which is why very few people go and try the alternative, but not having a partner/spouse? I find it impossible to believe there are advantages to such a cursed life...with one notable exception. As a single man with no woman in my life, I can proudly say that NO ONE within the four walls of my flat has ever uttered the words "Leonardo" and "Di Caprio" in the same sentence. It is for this reason that I can also proudly say that within the four walls of my flat No ONE has ever been murdered and had her body dumped the rubbish tip less than a mile from these premises. How many married men can say that? Not many.
cat burglar
***breaks into Thrax's flat.***

Have you seen any of Leonardo DiCaprio's films? He's fugly, but I still intend to get Total Eclipse just to see him shagging David Thewlis as Rimbaud.

Thew listen
[snorg] Bit dangerous ! He'll turn into a werewolf !
oops
just realised I posted to MCiOS a follow up to a conversation goi g on in here. Very confusing.
Freakout
The three of you are clearly bonkers.

St d, any chance of a "copy-and-past" so we may learn of your wisdom here?

snorgs, help yerself on the breaking in front, I'm always welcome of a bit o' company, especially the feline variety. I used to have a cat named Dudley. He could talk you know... but he got run over. I miss him greatly.

Blob, heh, not so much a werewolf, but at university my friends often said I reminded tham of Dracula. To this day I refuse to allow garlic in my presence.
Horriday
I'm off on holiday again tomorrow. Whee.
oooh... I have to wait two weeks. Hmph.
leaving
Joining in the holiday rush. I have the day off tomorrow to go to the Goodwood Festival of Speed. The two hour journey has put me off before, but with free tickets from the Sunday Times, I'm looking forward to it like a big kid.
Goodiewoodie
I'll be there on Saturday, free tickets courtesy of work. My digital camera will be on official duties, but I won't. :o)
digital camera
Cany anyone suggest a decent digital camera for about £100 - £130? My eye has been caught by the DV5000 as a fun gadget. Any opinions?
Football
Bollocks. And that's all I have to say on the subject. Unless
a) my opinion is required or
b) my opinion is not required, but I get fed up with moaning to the rest of my friends and give it anyway.

So, age. Interesting thing. I don't always see it as a barrier, but I don't think I have a pattern...obviously when I was twelve I loved 26-year-olds because they were better looking than twelve-year-olds and had less scary voices and fewer spots. I have been known to have a penchant for an older man since but currently the objects of my affection range from 4 years younger to 28 years older (can you say worrying? Unless you're Jonathan Ross or Catherine Zeta-Jones, I imagine you can) so I reckon age doesn't enter into it. Of course this all means nothing, as I'm not part of a couple either, although because of that I can watch Euro 2004 in the comfort of my own home as opposed to in the pub (and I can bring my own snacks. Hooray! :) )
Did any of that make sense to anyone else? If not, ignore it, and normal service will be resumed shortly.
DV5000
[snorgle] I started thinking "wow!", but on reading the spec, it's a 3.1MP stills camera (I don't know where they get 4.1MP from when the spec further down says 3.1) plus a crap videocam, in the same size package as my 3.2MP stills camera plus crap videocam (a Sony Cybershot DSC-P32). Mine was just under £200 a bit more than a year ago, so £130 for the same spec now is probably about right. The only difference is that mine's built to look like a camera, which it is, and the DV5000 is built to look like a videocam, which it isn't. A real videocam would have a video output socket and give at least television quality images. The spec mentions an AV cable, but only talks of recording video to the memory card, not streaming it out to a computer or DV recorder.
football
ZK] I would like to read your opinion. What a great match though. Fantastic stuff......Also I reckon I fit nicely into your -4 to +28 group, somewheer in the middle, and have reverted to my imagining of you as a stunningly attractive girl. Ain't life grand ?
I am currently discovering that another advantage of being single is that holidays cost half as much. If, by contrast, your other half is in teaching and you are therefore able to go away only in August, they cost about 500 times as much.

Regular readers of my posts, and surely there can't be many, will be astounded to learn that last night, because there was nothing better to watch, I actually turned the football on whilst having dinner and quite enjoyed it. This may be because working in news means I am familiar with the names of almost all the players in at least one of the teams playing in that match. Plus, of course, one of them has the same psychiatric disorder as me, so I approve of him. Still, as I watched, I found a strange desire coming over me to drink large amounts of alcohol, sit with my legs very wide apart, look at pictures of young ladies without much on and perform noxious evacuations in the company of others with an expression of pride. Testosterone - too much testorerone!
Breadmaster
*cue eerie lighting effect and modulated voice*
Ahhhh... he's one of us, now...
Psychiatric Problem
BM] Are you too afflicted by Canttakeapenaltytosavemylifeitis? Re holidays though, have you not been confronted with the "single supplement" yet then ? Also you are factoring in teh idea that you have to pay for two peopl, rather than having two people pay for it....
x4
Holidays ! Wait till you have kids ! Forced to go during School Holidays (they even bump up the prices for Half Term, the bastards) - me, wifey, two kids = 4 flights. Plus the small people want a constant supply of things. And you have to go to family-friendly restaurants (o.k. this is getting better as they get older). So yes, don't complain about your "single supplement" make the most of it while you're single - or find a friend to go with you.
singlesuppleness
Ah, the single supplement thing... blind fury at being charged around 30 per cent extra for having the audacity to not be part of a couple is what forced me to try National Trust working holidays, which was one of the best decisions I ever made. Luckily I have a flatmate prepared to travel with me now, but when everyone is already coupled up and with an allergy to 'organised tours', I was left without a lot of options. So I holidayed, but I didn't travel much, which I still regret.
Hmm, not to sure how my holidays compare to other peoples. I tend to just hope work will send me to somewhere nice, and I try to blag some extra days on account of crippling jet lag, severe cramp, dehydration, headaches, and mental stress from the fact I'm terrified of flying.
holidays
All of the above
Just call me Ms T-shirt
[st d] Reverted? Was there ever any doubt? :) [Blob] Feel for my dad, he has 4....and works for the NHS.
little blessings
[Blob] Just the two litle acessories to take on hols! try three at (13, 9 and 3), mind you I am one of five, two boys and three girls. Holidays were fun; mostly.

Goody for Goodwood, wonderful, excellent; I enjoyed the whole day, like a kid in sweet shop, cars, cars, cars and ....even more cars.

[Blob] Did you say 'flights'? Presumably you don't go to Blackpool, Brighton or Margate then!
Whilst on the subject of holidays, are there still such things as camping coaches? I think that's what they were called. They're the railway carriages converted to accommodation and parked (permanently, I assume) in various areas. It's just that I have fond memories of staying in such as a child - although my parents might not agree with that evaluation - in places such as Arthog and Sandsend.
[Inkspot] Goodwood, cars - I envy you, sir.
Clarification
If I remember correctly the carriages were actually on railway lines with a full connection to the rail network but the rails surely did not look as though they had been used of late - hence my term 'permanently'.
hello all, a quick post from st petersburg, [ZK] the football was shocking, we watched on TV at one in the morning here and it was mightily depressing - as all the russians in the bar were cheering for england. bless. will post again soon. nights.
[has broken the furcation game]
all hail
[MF] So that's what you've been up to all this time!
Bravo, good sir, and extra kudos for managing to slip in a touch of nipple creep :-)
The full move can be viewed in its correctly-formatted glory here (also including the Hypearthquakes move and a lengthy Rice/Lloyd Webber/Elton John pastiche which probably did for the game)
goodiewoodiepostmortem
Yeah - it was OK - I took lots of pictures of funny faces and situations in the crowds, slightly fewer of the cars - there were just so many of them. I'm probably not the world's most fanatical car-spotter. However, I did have my picture taken with Renault's F1 driver Franck Montagny, who had his arm around me LIKE HE MEANT IT, as part of the digital-camera-loan deal with my young French trainee who was chaperoning him for the afternoon, Mwahahaah! :o)
oh, and it rained a bit, but not enough to spoil things, just enough to wet the Hill Climb course ;o)
Furcations
Well Martha, you've really Farquared that one up haven't you? Shame, it was a good move!
[MF] I go on holiday and this is what happens. I'll take my Acme HTML deodorizer to it later...
Deodorized
[Re Furcation Game] It turns out Martha's gigantic move was too big for the STEAM-powered technologies driving this site; hence I'm afraid I've taken the liberty of splitting the move up into two parts. I had to tidy up some of the HTML - the game moves should be unaffected, but do let me know if anything went awry in the rehashing.
*grin of satisfaction*
Thanks rab! Strange I got it through the HTML checker first, though (and muchos kudos for that groovy little dingus, too, without which it'd still be lounging unloved and unread in a... oh, hang on...)
goodwood
[Pen and Ink] Looks like we could have had a mini pilg as I was @ Goodwood too with my 16 year old and my 3 year old!
Grimace
[MF] If you are interested, which you probably aren't, the database that sits behind this truncates posts when they hit some, at the time it was designed, apparantly unreasonable length. I guess you exceeded that :) I should find out what the limit is and put in a warning. Glad you like the HTML debugging tool...
off to Scotland!
*boogies* I just got cast in the Edinburgh Fringe for August! This is a serious coup d'état for me! *boogies more* Finally - an audition passed (not merely given) and exciting prospects! All I need to do is learn to be an eight-year-old within a month (which may involve disguising a couple of things!)...which I'm sure I can do with study. After all, I was only eight ten years ago.....
Go me! :)
more casting couch
[ZK]Good luck in Edinburgh. I may be able to help you out with the mind set of 8 year old boys, basically; girls are yeuch!!! ;)

[plump] I'm sure penelope could arrange for some wonderful reasonably priced dicounted hospitality.

Congratulations to DrQuuxum for reaching No1 on Celebrity Mronington Crescent, sadly down to 13 following the departure of evil_edna. JJ's dividends and returns have become a very useful tool in taking the guessing out of who to invest in next. Even if Mr. Rooney was a teensy weensy bit obvious last week.

evil_edna
[INkspot] I've resurrected edna's account and will post the reference number here soon to be re-included in the league, if that's OK with all of you lot. I've been well into Tim Henman stocks for a couple of weeks now :o)
[ZK] Well done - I have several friends who have "done Edinburgh" and it sounds a pretty intense experience. Watch out with your references to "a couple of things" though - you'll have St Dogmael getting hot under the collar again...
hot collars
BM] I don't get hot under the collar. I just occasionally will raise an interested eyebrow. Oh what a joy to be a red-blooded male in his prime ! ;o)
He can get plenty hot under the collar, just so long as I don't mention what play I'm actually in (pretty easy as I don't know!) I should be fine! :) *boogies* ah, 'tis a good week, so it would seem!
Hey - good on yer ZK! Hope everything goes really well for you, Edinburgh-wise x
Oh yes, and ta to all for the congrats! :)
Congratters
To my dear friend, and as of yesterday, my maid of honour - ZK, I owe you one!
ooooh...
[AP] I know! Sadly I also owe you and yours about 45 quid, so I guess we're even...unless of course you can do me a similar favour! :)
Fringe benefits
[Zooky] Excellent - what will you be in ? Do you know the venue ?
[Blob] I have no idea! :) I'm still waiting for the script to turn up in the post, which has all the other info in it! I should imagine it's somewhere relatively small, as last time I checked I'm not sure they had very much money. But I don't know. Hoping for something nice! I'll post the details when they turn up :)
[ZK] If it's a côup d'état, does that mean you'll be taking the city by storm? :)
[Projoy] That's the plan! :)
being typically British
The weather here is bloody awful ...*$!*&
Embra
I do have a tendancy to drop in on Edinburgh during August, so maybe I could track the Keeper down :) If not this year, then one of the next three years for sure, as I'll then be living there. But first, I have to go to India. See you next week!
*waves goodbye to rab* again
Inja
[rab] Bring us back an elephant.
*waves to rab as he zooms past*
india
rab] Bring us back a couple of cricket bats and some wicket-keeping gloves...
And Hrithik Roshan!
Hrithik
[Zoological Keeper] Ooh, I'd second that if I were that way inclined. Have you read "Bollywood Boy" by Justine Hardy? Very amusing stuff... I went on a private tour of Film City in Bombay once (VIP that I am, or something) and it really is like that...
[Breadmaster] I haven't, but I will now!
Indiana
[Blob et al] I'll try :) Anyway, must go to bed now, the taxi's calling at 4.30am. Ouch.
Orange peeled
Is anyone else having trouble accessing Orange? I get message 403 Forbidden.
aha!
[Inks] me too - also the Lockisseum [which is on Dunx's server].
retracting
seems to be OK now :-)
Greetings!
Hello, can't say much cos I'm in a busy conference email room and this is perhaps a little frivolous... Anyway, I got here ok (as you can see) and am having an ok time, 75 minute rikshaw journey notwithstanding. I'll look out for an elephant for you.
[rab] Only 75 minutes? You were lucky.
Apropos of nothing...
Just over a week ago, I happened to be driving through Salisbury, and a passed a pub which had a sign proclaiming "A Goldfinch Free House". Are there many infestations of goldfinches in Salisbury?
A moment's pause, please, to remember Arthur "Big Boy" Crudup, who is memorable for a number of reasons, most particularly the following:

(1) He had the silliest name of any blues singer, which is saying something. Except maybe Fird "Snooks" Eaglin.

(2) He learned to play by attaching a single string to a guitar, mastering it, adding a second, and so on until he could play all six at once.

(3) He actually wrote "That's All Right Mama".

Yes, despite Sky News' claim today that it is 50 years since that song was first recorded, old Arthur recorded it in 1946. And when Elvis stole it eight years later, Arthur didn't get a penny in royalties. In fact, he never did. Many years later, his record company finally arranged for him to be paid the unimaginably vast royalties that he was owed for this and a number of other songs that Elvis ripped off. But at the last moment, they pulled out - claiming that they would lose less money if Crudup sued them over it. So he died unrewarded, and I think today is a fitting day to remember the fact!
taking a moment's pause
[BM] such a sad story :-(
That's how you got treated by the American music industry in those days if you were black... Crudup rerecorded "That's All Right" some time later, and he had to suffer the ultimate indignity of putting a composer credit on the label to "Presley"! It doesn't get much worse than that. To be fair, Elvis' version was a lot better than Arthur's, who wrote fantastic songs but was a bit rubbish, really, at least in my opinion. But that's not really the point.
ooh ooh! I got my script! My part's really obnoxious, it's fantastic! :D I play an 8-year-old girl and am called upon to cry, scream, vomit, get drunk, bite etc. If this doesn't stretch me I don't know what will! :) i haven't finished the script yet so I'm still trying to figure out what on earth it's all about, but it's looking good! I only have a month to learn my lines, though...
drunken children
[ZK] Is it Anne of Green Gables?
lynches and finches
hmmm, I dunno - Anne was a ... nice girl, even when squiffy on 'raspberry cordial'. But if we're talking about children who deserve to be garroted at birth ... how about Violet Elizabeth Bott?
[UK] sorry - didn't see your earlier post about the Salisbury GoldFinch Plague. Dreadful stuff. Really scary. Just like the Hitchcock film [I still have the remains of one wrapped around my rear water butt]. Luckily we managed to keep it out of the news, but I fear our lives will never be the same again here in sleepy South Wiltshire ...
[Projoy] Not to the best of my knowledge, unless it's the bizarrest of bizarre adaptations. I finished the script a few minutes ago and it makes very little sense to me! It's "Archer's Goon" - you may have heard of it...My character is called Awful, which I think is absolutely superb.
This one?
[ZK] Here? Sounds rather weird and wonderful if it is!
[ZK] I think that sounds fantastic fun. Any play that contains a character called "Awful" must be pretty good to start with. Sounds to me like it shouldn't take you a month to learn the lines, though - what with all that crying, screaming, vomiting, biting etc. there can't be all that much actual dialogue too...
[Dujon] Yes, that's the book it's from - I've ordered that from Amazon..hoping for some insight I guess :) [Breadmaster] There's a fair lot of lines! Learning starts tomorrow....eep! :)
Lost!
I'm lost- i'm at norwich station and i want to get to MC Help!
Getting to MC
[NH] Try a counter strile at Thetford, then you'll need to use WAGN and six blue podumes via Peterborough I reckon. If the snoods are blonked you may have to side-straddle to Cambridge however.
[Zooky,Chalky] V.E.Bott was who sprang to my mind too. [Zooks] Sounds fun to me.
Ely wheely
[NH] As Blob says, but be wary of hitting the return loop at Ely or else you could end up being shunted to King's Lynn. Also the 'bus replacement rule' could be brought into operation making the Peterborough route costly in terms of LV. Do not stop at Manea, it is a trap.
I have to point everyone to the Hyperlink game over at MCiOS, where we are having enormous fun with a link to a Spartacus gladiators game. Buckle up your greaves and ready your trident - or do you fear the mighty Magister Panus?
New Game
Oo! Game slot!

May I suggest "Conversation Stoppers", as I described elsewhere?

To Rosie
4.5 mm of precipitation since the beginning of June. Sunny - and extraordinarily warm - days continue. Today is cooler (14.5°C as I type at 14:10 local time) although overnight temps have been down to 3° or 4° no frosts have been in evidence here as yet.
[Dunx] Yes!
No 9 bus
Conversation Stoppers, oh yes please.

[Breadmaster]I tried the site but, recieved the message;The page cannot be displayed
There are too many people accessing the Web site at this time.

Graham III as ffiish continues to break and create new records over at Celebdaq Celebrity Mornington Crescent, much kudos to you sire.

I'm glad that bitter and twisted manipulator, Seal Boy has been evicted from the BB House.
Stu is a mummbling self obsessd idiot , (the most intelligent person on BB ever - B***ocks!).
Michelle should leave Stu alone, and be herself she has more to offer as a personality without him, a mismatch for Stu if ever there was one.
Shell you can streak round my garden anytime ;)

And then Aunt Mary broke wind
[Dunx, Raak et al re conversation stoppers] That gets my vote, but it seems the slot has become blocked, sadly.

Oh, hello, by the way. Surviving, just. Have had four days of conference thus far; had a wee excrusion yesterday, saw a couple of temples. I said 108 Hare Krisnas before being 'selected' as one of the lucky people to donate 150 Rupees to the cause. I received a copy of 'The Science of Self-Realisation' in return, which I expect to give me many hours of pleasure amusement.

One more day to go (getting bored with statistical physics now), before a day trip to Mysore and some more Bollywood movies on the way home. Still no elephants, but there are a number of cows wandering around I could try and slip into my luggage instead...

Hare Rama, Hara Rama, Rama Rama Hare Hare...

Archer's Goon
There was a TV version of that when I was a kid, starring Roger Lloyd Pack.
[Darren] So I discovered, on research. The last in-house production for CBBC after the bank-breaking Chronicles of Narnia (loved them!) That makes you rather young though, doesn't it?
Having just set up that COnversation Stoppers (sorry for the dodgy ƒ)
Maybe some time we should play Morgenburg Halbmond?
[ZK] Well, I'm 26, if that makes me rather young.
Rather young; by my chronology I'd placed you a few years younger with Archer's Goon. *goes imdb trolling* You were 14 when they made that then. Groovy. I'd have been 7, probably why I don't remember it. I may have even seen it, I don't remember most things I saw fewer times than twice though...
Shell out again...
Inkspot] Were you watching last night?
gloating
[Inky / Celebdaqers] Had a little chuckle when I checked the league just now in view of your comments the other day ...
Quote "Graham III as ffish continues to break and create new records over at Celebdaq Celebrity Mornington Crescent, much kudos to you sire..." Unquote.
Poor ffish has dropped from No 1 to second to last [teehee]. Is this also a record?
[snorgs] Well done. Number one again!
fiendish plan
Congrats to both snorgs, and to you Chalky. I presume it is your own modesty that prevents you saying how you occupy second and third places. I should have followed JJ's Dividends and bought Becki and not gone out on a limb with the Queen.
daqing
Oh, thanks! It was Wayne Rooney wot done it..
My 3rd persona's about to be millionaired! Yippee!
more league tpye stuff
[UK] Are you playing away from home? Is which league is this other persona?
I've been baby sitting an account for someone in the Ratcatchers Guild over at Discworld Minileagues. In all she has the same account in 24 separate Celebdaq Leagues. (Cleddau has been marooned in the Embalmers Guild for the past couple of weeks)
Multiple personalities
[Ink] I've got four accounts in all, which compete in my me-only league called Advanced Schizophrenia Ltd.
daqing along
Hmm. Got my dividend banker wrong. I would have thought that the fact that Serena Williams was mentioned in every broadsheet front page article about that Russian girl would be enough..., but even so [Inkspot] Thanks :)
Oh, and...
and I went from position 1 to position 30 in Lancre Embassy (division 15). Hope I don't get relagated - would have thought I should have been promoted last week.
Serveritude
Rather sudden I know, but I've bought, have built and am currently installing Linux on a server to replace entirely the two machines currently responsible for running angrycake.com. It's very cute, I have to say - a smaller footprint than the laptop I'm tapping this entry into. MC5 will, at some point, be temporarily going away. This will not be immediate; indeed, expect things to remain the way they are for at least another week, and probably a while longer. I'm trying to do things 'right' this time. Which is why I'm installing crucial software on it whilst drunk, obviously.
Drinkies
It's the best time in my opinion, Nik - I find that lateral thinking ability increases in direct proportion to the Alcohol per hour intake.
Dunno why I gave alcohol a capital A! Good luck with the switch by the way.
I can think of a reason, Duj. :-)
Exciting, even to us technoserfs who think that Linux is a Peanuts character. I'm sure you'll warn us of the dates of absence of MC5 when they're known (assuming they are, of course).
Woo! Off to my concert today! *goes to have fun*
Bachus
Hello. I'm back from my travels. I did see two elephants in the end, but a big sign proclaiming "Elephants can be unfriendly to strangers" suggested it wouldn't have been a good idea to bring one back. Sorry. Mind you, given how much notice people took of the "Obey traffic laws" signs posted at intersections, I might have got away with it...
Archer, Dillian, Torquil, Shine, Hathaway, Erskine, Venturus
[ZK] (sorry I missed this discussion before) Archer's Goon is possibly my favourite kids' book of all time. It's superbly crafted and unfolds delightfully. You have a great part, although I'll be interested to see how the adaptors have made it stageable (the task is a bit like creating a stage adaptation of Terry Pratchett). Where will it be on? Details, please, details...
Errrrrr the only details I have are "Edinburgh, Zoo venue 1" (strangely enough :)) It means nothing to me but I'm hoping they'll tell me when I get to Kent! :) Indeed the script is a bugger to learn and I can't make the blasted child sound annoying without whining all the time. At the moment she merely comes off as irritating, and I seem to have lost the ability to scream. I was at a concert last night (in the audience) and was made painfully aware of how quiet I really am. Any good vibes sent my way would be graciously appreciated! :)
Come to think of it, I don't even know who anyone else is playing...
[ZK] Kent ? Edinburgh's not in Kent - in fact it's a long way from Kent. I suggest you head North !!!
Not actually at the Zoo, then...
A moment's trawling finds this. Sadly, I shall be in Scotland in the last week of July. Ah, well.
Reminiscing
One of the games that I miss playing (thinking back to Pants MC) is Liff. We've got a spare game slot - anyone fancy a go?
Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwll Llantysiliogogogoch - the sound made before the first fag of the day
[Uncle Korky] Is this what you mean? The Even Deeper Meaning of Liff new definitions using place names. Which way is it played, do you provide your own names and definitions or do players respond to the previous posting?
Liff
Ah...happy memories of the old "Ais Ghyll". Liff was played by providing a definition of the place name set by the previous player, then setting a further place name for the next player to define.
Liff
I'd love a go at Liff again in fact I'm feeling a little chelmsford at the very idea.
Liff
(plump) At least you aren't at Loggerheads (Staffs.) I like the idea of a new game of Liff. You could say I have some Wantage in that respect. (Bigsmith) The spelling is "Ais Gill" though your version may well be the original. Looks plausible. There's nothing there, of course, except an old railway signalbox at the top of a long gradient up from Appleby, and some good mountain scenery. (End anorak display).
Ais Gill
(Rosie) Perfectly right old chap, the old memory is failing me again (plus the fact I have spent some time recently around the Old Dungeon Ghyll in the Lake District!).
Delighted
Lif? 'tis done!
*waves*
For no particular reason.
New Systems
[Nik] Oo, that sounds fun! What kind of box is it?
I've been blogging the process.
Tidy. Need to think about something along those lines myself, since my nominated server machine is (1) relatively old, (2) occasionally failing to boot, and (3) loud (much quieter with a better fan, but still quite noticeable). But that's for some time in the future.
Bye
Well, maybe. The good wife has just left on her second five day break in order enjoy the campus of Kurri-Kurri. I shall now have to do all those things which I hate; like cooking my own meals, feeding the cats, grooming the cats, watering (well!) all her seedlings, doing the washing, vacuuming the carpet, cleaning the windows, making the bed, doing the washing, remembering to do things (and when) ... some women! How inconsiderate can one be?
Ooh!
[Nik] Newer version of MySQL sounds good, means I can hopefully remove some of the workarounds I currently have in place and make a more efficient/robust system.
[Dujon] I'd be tempted to say that you only need to do some of those activities once, just before she comes back. But then I'm a slob ...
Time for a change
On browsers that show link titles, you can now find the time/date of postings by creeping your nipple over the poster's name. Needless to say this is harder to do on Internet Explorer than it is on anything else...
dating
[rab]What is the problem with IE? is it something special you have to do with the script? I had no problem with IE6, the little hand showed the time and date (10.59pm Thu-15-Jul 2004). Perhaps its just the way I grease mt nipples...
[Blob] Rehearsals for a week in Kent. [Watty] Ooh! Thanks for that! Brill.
[Inkspot] Mt Nipples? Where is Mount Nipples? And why does it need greasing?
Ta!
[Brendan] Thank you, sir. I suppose I'd better feed the cats and myself and water the seedlings othewise my inattention might become obvious. The rest has been taken on board - why on Earth I didn't think of that I will never know.   ;-)
Ooh nooh
[Inkspot] Nah, it's just I found with IE on the Mac I had to be much more fastidious with my nipple than on other browsers. Perhaps the PC version is more forgiving.
registering delight
Can I just say how delightful it is to play Codebreakers Crescent? Ay-thang-you
Shonagh Daly
And why not.
registering something
Following my remark last Friday [two up & thanx ZK] may I just say how delightfully chatty it is in here.
Usually.
chat
Well, I've got bugger all to say, really, at the moment.
What's better than the weather? ... boring, sorry.
Still, after our 4.5mm of rain in June, we've had around 14mm this month. Spread over three days. None of this could have found its way into catchment areas, the ground is just too dry. Cool but not cold, overnight temps seemed to have been constantly around the 5°C to 7°C mark, so no frosts on my little castle. Today it's a bit warmer, 14°C as I type; the last three days managed a max of 12°C, which is 'proper' winter weather. What really bothers one is the fact that the coastal areas received significant amounts of precipitation, in the form of rain, but we - and hence the dams - did not.
out of my window
Dujon]The weather here just south of the M4 in Wiltshire, its been changeable, mostly overcast, occassional showers with sunny intervals. So for Tom's third bithday party on Friday, it started cloudy threatening rain, cleared up during the party only to have heavy showers late afternoon.
One of the things Mrs Inkspot does very well for the parties is the cakes, either shaped like a number or in this case on Friday, a chocolate covered train with three candles and cotton wool smoke coming out of the funnel. The cake caused great excitement at the table when after one the candles went out, in relighting it, the cotton wool caught fire ... the children laughed and enjoyed it.
Meanwhile looking out over the metropolis, the sky has turned blue, the sun is out; today is the last day of the summer school term.
out of MY window
I have been watching a seagull's nest for a few weeks, and the chicks growing up. Suddenly, this morning, a flock of seagulls came over and made loads of noise, so when I looked out one chick was being dragged around by his neck! He managed to escape but was dragging his wing. A little later, someone else found it on the ground where it had fallen and put it into a box. We've called the RSPCA but they're taking ages to get here. In any case, I suppose they'll probably just put it down, even though it doesn't seem too badly injured. Oh, and the weather has been lovely and sunny and warm.
Gulls
Seagulls are the most evil creatures I have ever encountered and any form of natural selection that reduces the numbers of these buggers is A Very Good Thing in my opinion.
gulled
It's people's fault for leaving all their rubbish around - I still felt sorry for it being pecked to death. It would probably just be used to feed other baby gulls..
blog
Still at least I don't live next to them - like this guy..
out of my winder
I usually have the blind semi-shut, but out of my window (and a little to the side) is the Grand Union Canal with overhanging trees, flowing greenery under the water and 'peeping' moorhen chicks which have been sounding like a creaking gate for weeks now. I guess they'll soon grow out of it. The water throws that lovely rippling reflection under the eaves of the building. In the midst of this benevolent calm, I'm grappling with organisng photos of a Motor Technician skills competition that they forgot to tell me about until it was almost too late...
Where I'm from there are millions of Herring Gulls and everyone without exception loathes them. Apart from me - I like them. They're big and white and always appear spotlessly clean, as if they've just been through a whites wash on 90C, even if they've actually just been rooting through your rubbish. And they look so nice flying about. I miss them living here in London - just boring little Black-Headed Gulls, which don't even have black heads.
Nope
[snorgle] I sympathise with that chap. We had a nesting pair on our roof once which, apart from other things, made going into the garden a total no-no.
One word
Airgun.
Another word
Alkaseltzer.
one word - euthanasia
RSPCA blokey turned up (very handsome aussie surfer type!) and it's wing was indeed broken. He advised that he'd take it to the vet, but it would be put down, because it's just too expensive to keep all the gull chicks they get in. He did say if it had been older and just sprained it's wing they would have kept it until it healed, but broken wings are just too complicated. It was very cute and fluffy up close!
Hummmmmmm
We get hummingbirds in our garden. We have a feeder hanging off the deck, and these bizarre little birdies buzz up to it, flapping their wings like crazy, and suck all the lovely sugar water up. They just don't look real - they're the closest thing to a CGI bird that I can imagine, because they move so suddenly that they seem to travel from place to place by teleportation. And they make this ultrasonic chirping noise.

Weird things.

Apart from that, the only wildlife I usually see close up is dead squirrels on the road. Very colourful, especially if freshly flattened, but hardly pleasant to run past.

Worse than gulls
I REALLY hate pigeons. They are just parasitic, and fat, and nasty. Apologies to any posters here who happen to be pigeons.
Pigeons
In France, so I'm told, pigeon is regarded as a delicacy, particularly amongst foodies, i.e. most of the French, and not to do so is regarded as almost blasphemous. Hence the following Limérique:

Il y avait un jeune homme de Dijon

qui n'avait que peu de religion

Il dit, "quant à moi,

je deteste tous les trois,

Le Père, Le Fils et le pigeon".

Kazoo-ing
[Dunx] Aren't they fantastic! I don't think we have humming birds in this neck of the woods but we do have honeyeaters. They appear to have similar characteristics. Heaven only knows how fast those little wings beat, but they are nearly invisible such is the rapidity. Their spatial control is unbelievable - as you say - one moment they are there and next moment they are gone and probing their long, thin, curved beaks into a flower a foot or so away. Quite magnificent little beasties.
[penelope} That sounds rather idyllic.
[seagulls] I've always liked the little scavengers; I love the sound of them wheeling around the coast. Then again, I've never had to live with them as I've never had the pleasure of living that close to the sea.
[pigeons] The most rapid method of making a new sculpture look old.
Outbreaks of excessive whiteness.
Can you go blind from watching the BBC1 weather forecast at 10:30pm? I almost did last night. The weather lady was wearing a jacket that wasn't just white, it was whiter than white. So white it made me go "argh!" and throw my hands in front of my eyes. Pearing through my fingers I swear that it was so white it was casting shadows. Surely we should be warned prior to the start of the broadcast that sunglasses should be donned before watching the following weather bulletin. BTW, I've no idea what the weather is going to do today, but it doesn't look too bright.
pigeons
Must be an acquired taste. I tried some, but it was much too strong for my palate. The meat's almost chocolate coloured. Give me some nice crispy duck any day! Speaking of which, staying on a boat on the Broads this year, and woke up at 6am to see a duck staring in through the window!
Broads Minded
[Angus] Last time I was on the Broads, it was surprising if a duck wasn't staring through the window!

On a previous visit, I remember the swans were particularly importunate - they'd see people moving around on the boat, and then come and peck on the hull!

Swans
Well that's another matter! I swear one followed us from Norwich down as far as Beccles - and back again! He knew I was a soft touch unfortunately - I'm a sucker for a pretty face...
The Furcation Game
That slow-moving behemothis about to consume my life again... Before I devote all free time to it, is there anyone out there already concocting a move? Speak now or forever hold your peace.
Guessing
[Tuj] Be my guest...
Sacha
I was saddened to hear this morning that Sacha Distel passed away yesterday. To be honest I hadn't realised that he was 71 nor that he had been ill. Whilst not a fan of his (although some of his 'crooning' was enjoyable) I did appreciate some of his guitar work.
celeb-gloat
woohoo - No. 1 in League! And so easily achieved by leaving my paltry sum on BB5's Ahmed, so he ended up serving some purpose after all.
young whipper snapper
congtrats to x_sugarbabe_x and to Chalky in third place. This follows on from Dujon last week; I'll have to crank up moreteaplease (but about to be kneecapped). Monday will be too late to buy into for James Hewitt who according to JJ's Dividends has a potential of £10 per share!! and at only £2.60.
Shell the manipulative tart has schemed on the wedding night and now Victor has left the House, it should have been Jason out tonight *must remember its just a game*
Blushes
Thanks for the recognition, Inkspot. Congrats to those who, after me sitting in No 1 all week, grabbed a big dividend and pushed me down (way, way down) on the table of achievement. Watch out this week, children!     ;-)
*breaks three-day silence in the chat game with a loud fart*
*sprays air freshener*.
Just popped in to say I've been a bit poorly but now I'm better :-)
Oh! are you alright chicken?
Cooped up
[Michelle] I have just pandered to one of my inner demons, by ringing telephone number 09011 21 44 07 and voting for you to be evicted; a peace of mind for 25p. Its time you were released from the Big Brother House.
Indeed
Yip. She has to go.
last day at work..
Yay! I'm going to try to do NO work at all today, if possible.
shoulder to the wheel
[snorgle] Are you going on hols, or off to greener pastures?
Hummingbirds
I had a dream I was a hummingbird once. Most wonderful dream. I must say though that the expression "flapping their wings like crazy" doesn't really sum up the sight and feel of a hummingbird. It implies effort and although I have only seen them once (in carib..) they looked effortless. Beautiful - and I see what you mean about the CGI....
job
I'm starting a new job on Monday, and I'm on strike for the next couple of days. In fact, this morning a member of staff asked if my friend (who sits by me,and is a smoker) had a lighter, and a blokie said he needed it to set fire to the computer room. We laughed, and she gave him a lighter. 15 mins later and the phones went down. Apparently he was an engineer who needed to do something to the wires. I'm not even logged in now, so I don't really care! Yay!
Apologies for cross-posting: I'm off on my hols, so have fun, and I'll catch up with everyone when I get back on 10/08.
Hey UK - have a great time! I'm off in a couple of weeks. Camping. If it rains we'll be playing a lot of 'Carrot'.
campanology
[Btd] Another good one is 'Beers A-to-Z' although I don't expect the girls will be quite up to speed on that. 'Vegetable A-to-Z' might be a good alternative.
Amusing oneself in the rain
I've always found "Rude Bodypart Euphemism A-to-Z" quite entertaining. All together now - "Arse, Boobs, Crack etc. etc."
Re: Hummingbirds
Hummingbird barney, this morning - one hummer was feeding and buzzing the breakfast table, then another one came along and drove the first one away! High pitched squeaky noises aplenty. Then a few minutes later the first one came back. They look to be male and female of the same species, so we're wondering if driving each other away is hummingbird for "Get your coat love, you've pulled."
kacaknet
hoþgeldiniz
kacaknet@mynet.com
hoþgeldiniz
Astonishment
I am astonished that this play has gone unchallenged for so long...
[kacak] SPONG!!!
aha!
I raise you that SPONG!!! and counter with a vehement and thrusting FNOOOOOOOOONGA!!!
Wabam!
poo
KICKING!
more again
Whilst it is a bit quiet in here this Sunday, break out a tinny and bottoms up to Dujon forhanging onto the top of Celebrity Mornington Crescent for a second consecutive week and keeping blamelewis and DrQ at bay.
A novel way to save the NHS...
Whilst meandering around work today i found this memo, and it made me giggle for hours.... ' Dear Colleagues, As you are aware from the letter recently sent to you from xxxx xxxx Director of Nursing, we propose to discharge all patients to Nursing Homes between 10am and 11am each morning.'..... Discharging all patients is certain to solve every bed crisis!
Is that to be the foundation upon which Labour build up to the new ellection?
Followed by the proposal of regular drenchings to aid the fire service, shooting children to bypass education failures, and then arresting everybody in case they commit crime?
Wishes
[Inkspot] Much as I would like to claim consecutive terms of leadership I think you will find that x-sugarbabe-x gave me the proverbial hiding last week. I'm about to be kneecapped so have done sweet nothing. *sinks to the wooden spoon position*
Correction
This week is 'this week' last week was 'last week'. So, yes (gloats), creamed you lot 'last week' but x-sugarbabe-x (aka Chalky) still gave us all a lesson the previous term.
Sorry I spoke.
Hogging the game
I just heard one of the funniest things that I have heard in my many years as a radio amateur. A gentleman (south of Canada and north of Mexico) whose country of origin shall remain secret was just talking to a local Australian 'ham' and was trying to work out the time difference; he was quite sure that Australia was twenty seven hours ahead of his own time zone.
Shhh
[Dujon] Everyone's asleep.
[Dujon] Excellent stuff! I'm off to a country in the region indicated tomorrow so I hope to return with many amusing tales of foolishness. Almost certainly mine, but there you go.
[Breadmaster] Have a safe trip, sir. I wasn't having a go at American citizens, I talk to many such. As it was latish night at his place at the time I suspect he'd had a hard day and was simply tired - or something. It was still funny though.
chicken licken boiled
[Dujon] You are right, about x-sugarbabe-x. I was slghtly behind with my compiling and jumped a week.

Big Brother; Stu evicted !!! like whoaa, dude! ...that's like .... seriously amaaaazing.

Badgers - out of their misery
It may just be the summer season, but I was surprised that never really got going. I would start a nasty game of Acre Street, as I read that archive recently and oddly felt compelled... But we've got The Furcation Game already, and that needs a good jump start too. As soon as I get a bit of time on my hands why is this the sort of thing I want to waste it on?
And yes
...that was a non sequitur 'cause I'm not a Big Brother fan and I'm too lazy to go Celebdaqing more than half-heartedly!
No Pruning Shears Here
[Tuj] Re: choice of time wasting - because it's fun? I know that's why I keep coming back.
Has there been a game of MC played entirely in Haiku form?
[Boolbar] Not entirely sure, although I once did have a Lock Cup qualifying match against Catherine where all *comments* were to be made in Haiku form, but the move was not included in this (as according to the standard format of separating move from comment, as practiced on PantsMC).
Psycho Haiku
During my last move for The Furcation Move, Furcation O was a new haiku variation. The initial letters of the haiku formed the first line of a new haiku, so "The old writings read / In there ev'ry ancient hai / And its ku under", as well as being a (slightly odd) haiku, forms the first line "To write a haiku" with it's first letters. I can't remember quite why I came up with it, though it does remind of some very difficult limerick game we had once at !York...
Fractal Haiku
It would be very impressive if the new haiku so formed also had the property that its first letters formed the first line of another haiku. And so on.

But shall we play the
game of Mornington Crescent
in haiku form first?

waves goodbye*
See yas all in September :-)
come n sign my guest book pretty please........
Weird commnets will get extra kudos in the next sphere of life or a free cup of tea on Edgware Rd!!! http://www.papalazarus.com/page4.html
cheerios
[Chalky] Have a good hols, this could be the chance I need to get back on top of Celebrity MC *looks down at diary and curses, holiday to France imminent*. Would anyone be able to send me the Friday league web pages for 20 and 27 August? A link will follow tomorrow, but in the meantime congrats to gil (sigmundfreud).
more me again
Barging in with the link as promised, and now back to Kingdom Hospital.
three in a bed
I would normally avoid Haiku. If I break the rules of the format, tap me on the shoulder.
[Inkspot] Surely you mean...

I avoid Haikus.
If I break the format's rules,
tap on my shoulder.

And there you have the same sentiment but in the right number of lines and syllables (5-7-5)...

one or two
It is the syllables I have the problem with. Normally with each player contributing a single line, errors can jar. But by doing all three lines this will be good practice. When I wrote the second line I agonised over Amer-sham and Am-er-sham, coming down on the former, influneced by the move earlier by Dunx where to me I sounded 8 but was accepted as 7
With(1) West(2) Ruis(-?)lip(3/4); puts(4/5) me(5/6) in(6/7) spoon(7/8)
I have invited critisism of my play as my da-dee-da-dee-da seems to be a bit la la at times, but I do intend to nail this format; hopefully before the game ends ;)
As some of you know I enjoy football. This little gem appeared on the official web site of the club I follow:

"In excess of 19,000 season tickets have been sold as ******** gear up for their fourth consecutive season in the top flight, which is more than at the same stage last season."

Is this stating the bleeding obvious or am I misreading it?

Sneaking back in...
Just back from a very enjoyable week in North Wales. I'll have to go tidy up my badgers that are still roaming the tunnels...
[Inkspot] Ruislip is TWO syllables, Amersham is THREE. Unless you're going by some definition of "syllable" of which the rest of us are unaware.
19,000 season tickets
Dujon] I read that about four times, but now I get it! The clause beginning 'which' is a bit ambiguous, I suppose.
Celebdaq
[Inkspot] Looking at the 'daq today, it seems that I now have the facility to add members to Celebrity MC. Would you (or anyone else, for that matter) have any objections if I add in my other two personas?
whiching...
[Dujon, Tuj] I read it first time as I think it was intended... but I reckon the problem is that the 'which' is too far removed from the subject to which it refers... so it looks like it refers to the fourth season, but in fact it refers to the 19,000 season tickets.
more!
[Uncle Korky]Please add them to the League, we need to do something about the recent run of good luck by Dujon, you could even be onto a winner with Doris this week. According to JJ's Projected Dividends it will be close between Nadia and Sven on the divi's payout.
En route
[Inkspot] Stand by for appearances by Mavic_Chen and Johnny_McDozenlegs!
Syllabarial Variations
[Inkspot] It might be a pronunciation thing: "Ruislip" is pronounced "rye slip" rather than "roo-ey slip"; "Amersham" is always "Am-er-sham".
seven eighths
So the line does have eight syllable thingys With(1) West(2) Rui(3)slip(4); puts(5) me(6) in(7) spoon(8) and yes fair cop on Amersham, from such a low base, I can only but improve....moving swiftly along; [Uncle Korky]I love the names Mavic_Chen and Johnny_McDozenlegs ;P
They should be with us tomorrow.
Apology
[Inkspot] You're quite right. Sorry.

[Haikuen] Apparently I can't count syllables at all.

Orangeless
As I write this, Orange MC is unavailable while its host server reboots. This would normally be a quick thing, but the host server has been up for a long time prior to this and so it went into an fsck cycle. Should be back soon.
Bouncer on the door
[Uncle Korky] The accounts are yet to appear, if they need some extra persuasion either leave the details here or here: gareth underscore penn athotmaildotcom.
I know the bouncer!
[Inkspot] The particular bouncer is my corporate firewall, which won't let me access Celebdaq between 8.30am and 12.00 midday, and then between 2.00pm and 5.30pm. So, the first chance I'll have to insert 'em is lunchtime today.
recording! ding! ding! ding!
Dear I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue emailing list member, This is to let you know of the first recording date in the Autumn series of 'I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue'.
The recording will take place at the Anvil Theatre in Basingstoke on the evening of Sunday 19th September. The doors open at 7pm and the recording starts at 7.30pm Ticket prices are £12.50, £10, £8.50, £7 and £5. The number for the Anvil Theatre's box office is 01256 844244.
You will need to book early as these shows seem to get more popular with every passing year. However, if you are unlucky or Basingstoke is too far for you to travel, we do have two other recording dates, one in mid October in the North of England and the other in the South in early December. The venues have not yet been confirmed - we hope to be able to send you details of these in the next couple of weeks.
Me name's not down...
[Inkspot] I tried to add 'em in, but I'm not sure it worked. In case it hasn't, Mavic_Chen is 3402569 and Johnny_McDozenlegs is 3411069. Glad you like the names!
Red carpet
[Uncle Korky] Mavic_Chen and Johnny_McDozenlegs have entered at numbers 10 and 12, respectively. Good luck!
!
Cornwall and campsite here I come!!! See ya all in 2 weeks!
dieng of a trojan
I look up a randomn seach on trojan horse Nex.b virus and this site came up because someone had been talking about it. How did yu get rid of it
Gifts from Greece
[Malkie] That was me from a posting I made in April this year. AVG a free anti virus software found it and deleted it. As a matter of course, the system is automatically updated every two weeks. A full scan is carried every couple of days (which for 12Gb takes about 20 minutes).
Celebdaq
Oof!
[Bob] If the weather's anything like it is in Manchester at the moment you're going to have a soggy time! I'm sure the kids will love it.
Notlob
[Dujon] Congratulations, another fine win.
I see the Premiership starts tomorrow. My fingers are crossed that you have a better start to the season this year against Charlton than last years 4-0 drubbing by Man Utd.
We're in!
[Inkspot] Cheers!
Arrivaderci
Inkspot] Pah, Some of us started last week, in the "Coca-Cola Championship". Playing Derby tomorrow, the glamour...
In other news, I'm orf to Italy for a fortnight. Take care all, have fun.
[Inkspot] 1) Ta! 2) So do I. :-(
[Tuj] Good luck, safe travel. I hope the weather's good to you.
1 - 4
I must be a glutton for punishment. I have just signed up to Sportsdaq. Very similar to our old friend Celebdaq but this time it is sports pages only. First portfolio has to be Micheal Owen amd Micheal Schumacher.
news from the Fringe
Ahh, the joys of internet cafés in Edinburgh! My poor friend/stage manager drove us all the way up to Edinburgh on Friday/yesterday, starting from Kent and overnighting in Birmingham (waking up at 6 when you went to bed at five....fun!) And try parking in Edinburgh during the Fringe Festival! Let's not go into that. Show starts tomorrow (Archer's Goon...wearing my lovely t-shirt as I speak) and hopefully it should be good, cos on the last rehearsal day (Friday...arrived in Kent previous Friday for a week of intensive rehearsal...and I mean intensive....it was my birthday last Thursday [thanks for my greetings Angus! :)] and the celebrations went out of the window because we were working all day until we finished our run through at about 1 in the morning) our director said....right....we run over by about an hour and a half...and slashed all the bits out of the play they felt were unnecessary and got it down to about an hour and 30 from 2 hours 45! I now affectionately refer to it as Archer's Goon on acid. It's still really good though. If you can come and see it, please do! Money running out...bip...bip....bip...
Archer
[Zk] Wish I could be there to cheer you on, and I would definitely have enjoyed the show, but sadly, too many hundreds of miles away. Break lots of legs (well, as many as are available)! And let me know if you tour it in the SE.
[Inkspot] Whilst I expect to do poorly I've signed up on Sportsdaq. If you are going to run a league feel free to add me; details are as for Celebdaq.
daqing
I've gotten quite bored with the daq - mind you, I'm much busier in my new job - just starting my 3rd week! The only reason I'm here now is because my line manager and several other team members are off today, and I don't really have anything to do until a meeting at 1pm.
Embra
[ZK] Good luck, and good job I didn't try hunting your show down when I was in Edinburgh last weekend (officially the first proper day of the Fringe). I should be in situ for the whole three weeks next year, but I guess that's not much help. Oh, and someone walks past you very quickly with hands in pockets, do not, under any circumstances even attempt to give them a flyer. They're probably a local who's realised they're at the wrong end of the Royal Mile...
... IF someone ...
On me 'ead!
[Inkspot / Dujon] I've succumbed too... if there's no mini-league yet, I'd be happy to start one (although I'm not sure how to produce those snazzy weekly speadsheets, etc...).
C in C
[UK] Fine by me. I'd volunteer but I already spend too much time on this infernal machine; I run my own (basic) football site and co-manage a couple of others related to installation and maintenance a particular type of 'forum' site software.
Golden gongs for Aussies
[Dujon/Uncle Korky] Although I have created a mini-league I am going to see how things pan out, to see how well it keeps my interest (the id numbers are different to Celebdaq, for Sportsdaq it is 358). Celebdaq can be hard enough to sustain, with the constant round of kneecapping. But I did have a £5,000 bonus today for backing the winner of the Grand Prix which gave a little sparkle to the game, but had not a clue as to where to reinvest the money. I have my fingers crossed that the comprhensive coverage in the broadsheets will counter the football (ie the big four) obsession of the tabloids. Even if Britain were to win gold tomorrow it would be overshadowed by the ManU/Chesea rumour mill.
I gave a small cheer fo Austrailia this evening after Ian Thorpe beat Pieter van den Hoogenband claim gold in the 200m freestyle final. This is because I have been fed up with Sue Barker et al beating the drum for the American Michael Phelps and his attempt at 8 golds, and ignoring Thorpe. How will they square the circle now?
Also some of the mens gymnastics, I find it incredible what those guys do on the rings, parallel bars and other parts of the rotation.
This will be the last League for two weeks (would you be able to send the the Friday results on to me "Tools - Mail and News - Send Page")

[snorgle]Although the new job is busier, good luck, does this mean you are no longer a public servant?

Strylan limpians
Ruddy 'eck, Inkspot. You reckon Sue Barker's a bit one-eyed! You should see (though best you don't) the press down here. If you thought David Beckham's foot got too much coverage you ought to see what's been happening here regarding Jana Pittman's (sp?) knee! Fair dinkum. A young lass in the Aussie gymnastic team had to come home because of a calf tear and the only coverage I saw was a short mention that she was back in Oz! I suppose they - the press - had to find a replacement for Cathy Freeman. *sighs* As you have undoubtedly noticed Australia is extremely weak in what is termed 'Track and Field'. In fact they are hopeless - at least in the greater scheme of things.

How would you like the Celebdaq chart captured? I can easily just save the whole kit and caboodle via the 'view source' or any part of it I suppose. An image is a bit big. Let me know and it shall be done. The only other question is when? I am usually around the computer just as the dividends are distributed - is that what you're after?
Hrmph!
Right, I've just read your posting. Now I only need the timing and where to send it. I'm assuming it's gareth_penn (insert an at symbol) supanet dot charlie oscar mike.
what sports?
[Inkspot] I appear to have watched the same series of events you did, albeit commentated in French, which was both odd and a relief (see Dujon's comment). The vaulting 'horse' appears to have mutated since a couple of years ago. Weird shape.
Merkin Commentary
[Phelpsness] Golly, if you think Sue Barker's bad, try watching NBC! Ghastly. It's like there are no other athletes except Americans in the races. And watching the gymnastics last night, the only team that got decent coverage was the US. Fair enough up to a point given that the Americans were in with a shout, but they showed hardly any of the winning Japanese until the last bit where the Japanese actually secured their victory.

Is the BBC any better? Well no, not as far as mindless jingoism goes, but at least they aren't filling half their broadcast time with adverts so there is more space to show other competitors.

Question: is the BBC showing any fencing? I was hoping to see some of it, but it's only on cable here which we do not have, and there is no streaming video to speak of here either.

serving the public
[Inkspot] I'm still a civil(ish) servant - now working in the WAG - Welsh Assembly Government. I'm in a Programme Management Office - and am also managing risk. ***shrugs***
[snorgle] Don't let my father here you say you work for the Welsh Assembly, I will occassionally when we visit; it's light the blue touch paper and watch the fireworks. Last weekend I did it with hospital waiting lists and the new debating chamber.
[Dunx] They only showed the fencing during the morning update, but very much blink and you miss it. They did include an interview with the coach and the unfortunate woman who lost in the sabre.
Today they have shown the rowing and cross country horse riding. This evening being given over to the womens gymnastics; I managed to catch up on the ironing while watching CSI and CSI:Miami. Has the beach volleyball been on yet?
[Dujon] Yes that's me, please send them anytime on Friday after the div's have been paid. I will do the tables whe I return. Much appreciated.
[Inkspot] It shall be done.
WAG
(snorgle) My niece works for the Wales Rural Observatory Project, whose data apparently lands up in the WAG. She showed me her Master's and PhD theses; I couldn't understand a word, mainly because of the jargon. I couldn't say anything of course, because she's fond of her Uncle T, as I am of her. :-)
WROP
What an intriguing name. Do they sit on top of Mt.Snowdon watching Mrs.Trellis through a telescope?
WROP - CAMREC
I wonder if there are any links between the two? Could she have stumbled upon an insidious plot to subvert this doyenne of MC through devolutionary subterfuge? Or are these just the ramblings of a demented conspiracy theorist?
Surveillance
[Dujon] No sign of Mrs Trellis from the summit of Snowdon, as my photo's from Monday 02/08 testify...
61 going on 16
I'm in a state of shock! Last night my Mum revealed that she's going speed dating tonight! At first I thought she was trying to come out to me (and that would have been even more of a shock) but then it became apparant that she's going to meet lots of men! I didn't realise that speed dating had reached sleepy Shropshire, and nor did I know that there were special night for the over 50s. Anyone out there been speed dating?......
skimpy Speedos
[Lib[ I'd be interested to know how she gets on... I'm considering it myself!
[Lib] Yes - my brother!
WROP
(Dujon, LotUS, Uncle K) It's a sociological and economic survey. As for Mrs Trellis, I would have thought she lived in somewhere like Llandudno or Colwyn Bay, rather than out in the country.
Pete Strange
Humph's trombonist and arranger, Pete Strange, has died aged 65. I knew him a little. He was a tubby aimiable boozy little fellow and a very good player. There's a big obituary in today's Grauniad.
It's a bit moist out.
Trellis
[Rosie] As I mentioned on Orange when I got back from holiday, I did observe Trellis in the village of Corris.
Fenced
[Inkspot] Yes, there was a very brief bit of fencing on last night, which I assume they showed because an American won gold in it. It was nice to see, actually, although I would have liked to have the whole bout rather than the edited highlights (I mean, each point only takes a few seconds - could they not have spared a couple of minutes more?) if only because then I could have figured out the science fiction costumes a bit better. But, slight point of pride here: the winner comes from Beaverton, OR just down the road from where we live.

There's been beach volleyball on, although curiously only the women.

Mrs Trellis
(Uncle K) Surely actually seeing Mrs Trellis is the equivalent of unearthing the MC Rulebook.
Strange Pete
rosie] I hope you have played a few slow new orleans funereal bars in his honour ?
Pete
I was amazed recently to learn that Humph is generally credited with the first ever British blues record (Bad Penny Blues) - although as I type this it suddenly occurs to me that I'm sure I know of a British cover of My Man Of War from the early 1940s, so perhaps it's not an entirely accurate credit. But it was great. I suspect that Pete would have been too young to have played on it, though.
Pete's age
Yup, if he died this week aged 65, then in the 40s he was only just old enough to smoke ;o)
Not so fast
[pen] The speed dating has stalled, postponed till next week. [rab] So, how did your brother get on?
Strange Pete
(st d) He had a female friend, a singer, (not a girlfriend) who gave him a lift to the pub where he played in Carshalton every now and then. She always called him Strange Pete but it was friendly. He didn't play New Orleans style, more of a mainstream player. He was always very friendly and slightly tipsy, enough so after one gig to let me have a little tootle on his brand new horn, of which he was very proud. With an instrument like that I could be quite good. Mm . . maybe. I'll miss his cheerful face, to say nothing of his playing.
boom-tish.
Rosie] are you telling me you blew his horn ?!? (oblig.)
ow.
[st d]Thank you for that disturbing mental image. thpppppppttt!!!
fenced in
[Dunx] there was a lot of fencing shown here on French TV earlier in the week (sorry, have been too busy to say till now). The French were doing well in a couple of events at the time, funnily enough.
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...
Hmm, quiet in here, innit? Has anyone else read A Gathering Light? I just started it as I'm supposed to be going to a book club on Wed. I actually have found it somewhat annoying so far, but I've only read a couple of chapters. Hopefully it gets better.
Why is it I have a cold any time I come back from anywhere interesting? Foreign germs I guess...or maybe because it rained in Rome and Edinburgh only when I chose to step outside the door....well, either way it sucks! :( Reviews for our show were initially shocking! But then, they went on the first night, and going by the standards of the first night I personally think they were being very kind. (No tech & no dress rehearsals in-venue, the in-house techies buggered up all the lighting & sound, which is sort of integral really, and everyone else forgot their lines. We had to cut bits as we went along because we were so behind time - I'm not surprised they didn't like or follow it cos I couldn't either and I was on stage!) But as of Tuesday we were on fire and the people sensible enough to come after that liked us - we had 30 people in on Wednesday, which was our best night by far! Hooray! I think they said we had 120 or something during the week, which by Fringe standards isn't bad, and Fest magazine (http://www.festonline.co.uk/review.php?id=303) gave us 3 stars, which is more than they gave Ed Byrne, and recognised the genius that is my friend Brad. So, as the director's dad said when he was taking all our cast photos...."bugger The Scotsman!" :)
Although, in hindsight, we were in Scotland at the time so I hope not too many people heard us! :)
bravo
sounds like you had a good time all in all ZK. So do you have the festival bug then ?
I can't seem to play any of the games in here at the moment. *whimper*
Festen
Ah, good old Fest. The deputy editor's a friend of mine, so thank your lucky stars ZK you weren't rude about it!

[svitc] Because they're too hard, or technical problems with posting.

D'oh.

I just don't have any inspiration/wit/wisdom, nothing technical.
[small] Fear ye not, I haven't played any of the games for about 2 months. No-one seems to have noticed! :)
[ZK] Do not think yourself ignored - you said where you going, so notice would have been redundant.

Glad you're back though.

How can anything be redundant when it wasn't dundant in the first place?
I must object. I have, on occasion, been dundant. [Dunx] Thankyou, although I just meant that the only game I'd been on in ages was this one, as my humble brain has burn-out and can't cope with the other ones :)
[ZK] Well, not at all a bad notice from Fest, who even note your youth, although whether that's good or bad is perhaps moot. Very good to see you back though.
Wish we were there
Had a postcard from Bob the Dog and family yesterday (who if you remember have gone to Cornwall for a holiday). The postcard had the simple message, "WET!".
"Carrot!"
Clearly monolexemia runs in the family.
[Projoy] When do you want that Dracula vid back btw?
Drac
I have some DVDs in now, so you could swap it for one of those if you like.
Slottage
On the grounds that a new game slot has been left open for days, I've dropped the game limit to 10, which is any case is a nicer number than 11.
10/11
That's a pretty sweeping statement rab. Would you care to back that up or are you just going to go around willy-nilly declaring some numbers to be more nice than others ? I think we should be told. It's a slippery slope you know. First its "oh 10 is nicer than 11" next thing you know its 4am and the police have smashed in your front door and you are in teh back of a lorry with a sack over your head being shouted at in Welsh.......
Re: shouted at in Welsh - I think I just was :)

That said, the number 11 sends shivers down my spin on account of its being the typical size of a group of butch ladies brandishing hard sticks.

rab] and what is wrong with dutch ladies ?
11 game slots? It's ridiculous. It's not even funny.
Numerologically, 11 is a much better number than 10.
... and 11 is the number of TimTams in a packet...
No, 11 may have a certain richness compared to ten, but is horrible as it is nearly 12 but not quite, and 12 is the best number. It is also the number of Apostles left after Judas quit (despite 1 Cor 15:5). And it's a prime number, which is bad. Ten is more satisfying all around.
Yes, but asserting the supremacy of 10 is to glorify the Western decimal system of counting over other, equally valid, numerical systems from other cultures, which have been marginalised by the patriarchal hegemony of the Western attitudes to number, particular the oppressive and unholistic notion of the integer. You might as well stage a Nazi revolution, frankly, as say 10 is good. I favour the number bleen, which in Afro-Sino-Mesoamerican cultures, represents, of course, the number that is blue.
I vote that we
all change to hexadecimal. I like letters.
Why Stop At Sixteen?
Let's use base 36! It would use the entire Latin alphabet, and would have many opf the advantages of base 12 (ie lots of easy to use fractions). And numbers would be shorter to write down, so we would save on ink and paper.
The real reason...
The best bit about base 36 is that I would be 11 again... although, being 25 in hex sounds quite promising too.
Base 60
For superhumans, Heinlein ("Gulf") suggested that base 60 would be suitable. With the 60 digits also doing duty to represent the 60 phonemes of a new language, there would be 216,000 words of just three letters, most of them monosyllabic. With the speed of speech and thought this would make available, effective lifespan would be extended by many times.
All your base..
That sounds exciting - it would certainly make life easier for rappers and poets..
TenTams
[Flerdle] 11 TimTams to a packet? The only packet I ever see has a hole in the cellophane and only 10 in it. BTW, The National TimTam vault is now replenished. They're back in the country.
[Raak] Are there 60 phonemes which the human voice can produce? I thought there were far fewer. (And I wrote a speech synth once, if that gives me any credibility, which I doubt!)
[Darren] Many more than that, if you add up the inventories of all human languages. Of course, you might have to be a superhuman to reliably distinguish them all. English has between 34 and 50, depending on how you count them.
Back to earth
[Raak] ...or in what base... ;)
I just came back from Tuscany today, a land where I was rained upon for about 45 minutes out of 2 weeks... to a land where it's been the wettest August since 1912, I heard. Ah, good old Blighty.
On another note, I see there are less games available now - is this an EU law, or a gesture against empathy?
grrrr....
[Tuj] I don't know that they are less, but there are certainly fewer of them :-)
Less fewers
Watty] I am a pedant myself, and it doesn't really bother me about less or fewer. Now I look at it, it's slightly ugly... but what makes me reach for the chainsaw is comma splicing (nnng!).
On a lighter note, why are there fewer? If people come up with more games, or ones with prizes / cash incentives, can there be more (or manyer?;) again?
Oh, and no I don't actually have a chainsaw.
[Tuj] How about a hedge trimmer?

What it comes down to is that "less" applies to continuous quantities, where "fewer" applies to discrete quantities. So you have less water but fewer glasses. "More" applies to both, just because English is such a wonderfully rich and evocative language (which is more agreeable than saying it is an inconsistent mongrel of a language).

Less bollocks - fewer bollocks
(Dunx) Dead right; you tell 'em. (the second phrase should be delivered in an aggressive N. Ireland accent). There are other pairs of words that have this distinction, eg "so much" and "so many". So much bollocks (speech by Blair), or so many bollocks (field full of bulls).
*sniggers and tries to imagine what Tuj would look like in motorbike leathers weilding a chainsaw, chased by a herd of curious and galloping bullocks. Struggles to picture Tuj at all, but the galloping bullocks are particularly vivid.*
*Enters arena wearing wet suit and bent tent pole chased by herd of curious and galloping Piskys*

Back from hols and I'm moist. "You'll love camping" I said to NotmrsBobthedog. "The weather is always good in Cornwall this time of year". As we dismantled the tent in a gale with rain heavier than I've ever ever seen it I reconsidered my enthusiasm for fresh air and natural elements.

Post script
Two days after we returned home I asked Notmrs if she'd like to go camping again next year. She said yes. We are planning to go to Scotland. I wonder if she is seeking revenge?
Sunken Kernow
Btd] You weren't near Boscastle at all, were you...?
Bosrubble
I was about 70 miles from Boscastle (near Lands End) on the day of the flood. Oddly enough that day we had very bright sunshine (the best we had for the whole fortnight). We spent the day on a beach. We have a friend in Sennen Cove who told us that during the day 30 cars and two houses had been washed away in Boscastle - but we didn't know whether to believe him due to the as the Cornish habit of telling tall stories - especially to gullible emmets like us. It was after that day that the weather got worse. It was not all bad but we has the tail end of three hurricanes and at least one gale. We didn't get much sleep.
Free Cornish pasty to whoever spots the superfluous "as the" in the above. Pasty may be slightly damp - no refunds or cash equivalent.
does anyone know " which band claims one of their dads was a pirate?" any help would be greatfully recieved
Bob the dog] Between "the" and "Cornish", in line 4. Do you want to give it to me in person or by post? ;)
pen] Ah yes, for I am a mysterious shady figure... (oh, and I don't have any motorbike leathers actually... there is a hedge trimmer in the shed somewhere though...)
grunt] Nope.
Bullocks] Aaaargh!
grunt
That'll be Frankie Poullain, bass player in The Darkness IIRC. A West Indian pirate, I believe
Can I just pop in briefly to say that comma splicing should be a crime punishable by death? Thank you.
thicko alert
[BM] What is 'comma splicing'? Perhaps I know it as something else. I probably do it all the time but need to know in case I'm about to be punished in a terminal sort of way.
Agreeing with Breadmaster
Comma splicing is the ULTIMATE SIN, whereby two sentences are mashed brutally together using a comma rather than a conjunction. It makes you look illiterate. It really gets on my nerves. For instance, if I'd replaced the full stop between 'illiterate' and 'it' with a comma, that'd be an example. One of the worst cases is the use of 'however' mid-sentence, which is nearly always wrong.
- however -
I do not enjoy the over use of acronyms, capital letters, smileys and most of all - jargon.
Tuj] I tried to write your address on the damp pasty but the pen sank into the waterlogged pastry. Fancy a damp steak and Bic doughy object instead?
Jargon is necessary to keep the riff-raff out. One thing that really gets my goat is getting the subjunctive wrong (eg. "if I was" instead of "if I were"). Midge Ure was particularly annoying in this respect.
[Darren] Midge Ure was just annoying, fullstop. Mawkish lyrics, play-by-numbers melodies and the most god-awful moustache that was ever grown.
[Btd] Sorry if my use of smileys is too familiar for your liking :o).
[Tuj] My business is sentence-mashing, however, I think I'm quite artful at it, I've been doing it for ten years. :oP
[penelope] Well, now you have yet another reason to dislike him.
8@()
Pen] Overuse of smileys ;o). I like the occasional :o) but too many leaves me :o(. In particular I dislike those gif file ones that are commonly used on chat sites. Yuk.
Darren] With your permission I will keep your quote "Jargon is necessary to keep the riff-raff out" in my little book of worldly advice to pass on to my offspring. It'll also come in handy at work - especially when addressing farmers.
Laffing with the Riff-raff :-)
[Darren] Your words did rather leap off the screen. I laughed and assumed you were in jocular mode. However, I must confess to being more intrigued by your pet goat, especially one that tell its subjunctive from its elbow. DO tell us more ...
The All-New Educated Riff-Raff
Btd] You have my address? I think I'll go hide somewhere before I decide whether to take up your offer...
pen] Aaargh! That's it! People do that and it's HORRIBLE!
back track
Midge Ure is annoying, period! As am I! Riff Raff makes a great alternative to Tinsle at Christmas.
MCiOS
Anyone know why MCiOS is unavailable?
No, since it's perfectly available right now from where I'm sitting.
[BtD] Permission granted. [Chalky] Yes, I was joking. My goat is got by many things.
is going on his, summer holidays
I'm off to Cyprus for a fortnight. Hopefully things won't go too pear-shaped while I'm away. Have fun, everybody.
I leave for a week....
*decides not to untangle the backlog and goes to bed*
Oh, I can't handle the backlog after just a couple of days. My computer has just dropped dead again, right in the middle of a long and exceptionally complicated operation involving emailing large numbers of people around the world and begging them to contribute to my book. Now I don't have access to the files where I was so carefully logging whom I had asked to do what. The net result will be, no doubt, that I will have 50 contributors all writing the same article. It could get messy. If you hear of theology gang warfare breaking out in the next couple of months, it's all the fault of my computer.
Get a life!
I must stop playing Kingdom of Loathing. I must stop playing Kingdom of Loathing. I must stop playing Kingdom of Loathing. . . . . .
[Boolbar] Was that another subtle advertisement for the game? It's nearly as addictive as Mornington Crescent, isn't it... ;-)
Boolbar, JLE] It is rather good, isn't it?!
backlog
ZooKeeper] I tend to find that if you have been away you might as well give up on reading what everyone has been writing, just scan up a few posts and join in. If anything strikes you as really interesting you can go back and trace it, however this has never happened yet. :¬]
It knids you in the podume. You lose 15LV.
[JLE, UK] Yes it is rather good. Trouble is as the game opens up, the amount of time you can spend on it increases. Now if only someone could write a combination of MC and KOL . . . .
They call it C-SPAN.
Oooooooooooooh
Thanks, rab, Nik, whoever. *sob* I've missed y'all.
It's back - hoorah!
*Lets off fireworks to celebrate reopening*
Well if this doesn't deserve a fresh cup of tea and a choc biscuit or two I don't know what does. Winning the Ryder Cup? Yeah!! make that choccie four biscuits.
yay!
That's better - all games have now been visited.
[Inks] Understatement of the year re: Ryder Cup "I think it's finally been recognised that the Europeans are no longer the underdogs" You gotta laugh :-)
celerations
*throws confetti and smashed champagne all over Mc5*. Anyone for an e-plig tonight? I want to celebrate my free broadband connection!! (but won't be home till about 21.30BST but will defiantly be there after that).
and...
If indeed we needed any additional cause for celebration - Hitch-Hikers 2 is on soon...
Bloing
*posts only to find out what time it is back at home*
Phew!
It's back, I can relax now.
[Bob the Dog] Have you dried off yet?
Boolbar] Yes - just enough to realise that I've missed your Birthday. Many Happy Returns of the day! *Wonders what are "returns of the day"?*
[BtD] I think it means "I hope the day of your birth returns happily year after year after year after yea ...." You get the picture?
[Boobah] *belated birthday hug*
[Chalky] Surely there's a bit of "hope you'll be there to see how said day returns year after year after ye...", too?
The return, people's birthdays, and joie de vivre
*does celebratory dance*
yay!
It's back, from Outer Space..
[Néa] That's it!
Not old
[BtD] Luckily I missed it too.
Not only is it back, but for some weird reason I no longer have to jump through hoops to get into the site. Is this permanent I ask myself?!
askance
Darren, why not ask us? We don't mind, really..
dialogue
.. and you never know - we might reply!
askanology
we might give the wrong answer - but that's the chance you take :o)
Dialogance
Darren] Do you literally mean 'jump through hoops', I ask myself... ;]
self help
[Tuj] Why not ask us? We can probably answer that one.
Is this "Females have all the answers day" ?
[Boolbar] Yes.
dialoganology
And lets face it; today is no different to any other
Fitzgerald
Do you have a right to sing the blues ?
mentary
Yes
OK, is it permanent? It's still working though. [Tuj] No, not literally. But having to use a different browser (in other words, the dreaded IE) to get to MC5 was annoying.
[Darren] Cor, lighten up... at least say yes! Or maybe you have jump over a desk or something...
[Tuj] You've clearly never seen my house. The prerequisite of jumping over furniture goes as read with anything I say.
sofa straddling
[Darren] ... and you never know where it might lead you ...
Chaise Longue Jump
*rofl*
Next thing you'll be telling me that bobsled champions start out by sliding down the stairs in an old sleeping-bag. Like I used to do.
[Darren] No, they use tea-trays.
[Darren] Ah, ya wuss ;) I used to do it without anything! Although I have to say sleeping bags do make it faster.
Er, tobogganning down the stairs, that is.
more chicks

*slight interuption*
As MC5 returns so does a little something else Celebrity Mornington Crescent with this Fridays results, the congratulations go to the girls on top Chalky at Nos1 and 2 assisted by snorgle at 3. Is this a conspiracy?
This week the long shot is Rebecca Loos. Listed on the daq she will be taking part in the Channel 5 celeb reality show The Farm. She will be joined by Paul Daniels, Debbie McGee, Vanilla Ice and several others to make nine contestants. Safe money would be on Elton John after his 'pig' outburst, but will his shares flatline when they reach £4.12.
*end ineruption*

innocent
I just bought some royal or other..
collude? who ... us?
Both of Me bought some royal or other .. and furthermore - we bought some more with our divis.
Feeling sorry for myself
I've lost my purse. I feel a fool. That'll teach me to leave the house when I'm hungover.... *wimper*
Curses
You'll feel even more so when you get around to the rigmarole of replacing licences, cards and the like, Lib. Bad luck, I sympathise.
Clever clogs
My good wife purchased some shoes - sandal style - some year or so ago. They were a bit tight so she wore them around the house for a day and put them away. Today she decided to become adventurous and wore them for a trip to one of the local shopping centres which involved walking around for about one (1) hour. These are the shoes. If you didn't laugh you would cry.
ah yes.
Apparently polyurethane soles have a habit of disintegrating if not worn, especially if they're stored in warm or somewhat moist conditions (eg most of Australia is one or the other). I'm not sure if it's just outer p-u or if it's the foamy matrix that's often within the sole for cushioning. My Dad used to get new shoes through work each year but often didn't wear the new pair for a while, and after a year or two of storage they would self-destruct exactly like that. Cold comfort, I know.
More disasters
Thanks for the sympathy. I've lost my wallet before so I try not to carry much stuff. Have found out that someone tried to use my credit card but failed just after the time I must have lost it. Humph.
And today's disaster is that my heating and hot water aren't working. Woke up to a cold shower. What a good start to the week. Am trying not to dwell on that fact that disasters normally come in threes.....
I have no electricity today for some unexplained reason. However, I've given up carrying a wallet since the last time I lost it, so there's still hope.
[Lib] you poor thing. Here, have an aspririn.
And a propos nuffink, just spotted this on the message board of the website of the local paper I used to work on... it drew such a vivid picture for me and I just had to share:
"on sat 12 july in skegness at the beach nite club met stunningly attractive female from louth but u had to go to get back on a minibus. i was the man shooting u with water pistol. we kissed then u left please get in touch". Awwww
Threeness
On return from the US I discovered that my CD player has developed rheumatism, the broadband router had died and the office desktop PC had lost its will to talk to the network. So it seems indeed that these things come in threes.

Nothing too serious though - the CD player seems to be healing itself, the router sprang back into life when I plugged it into a different socket (though the fact that the original socket has proven itself since fully functioning is somewhat mysterious) and the IT support had some stern words with my desktop until it started behaving itself.

I blame heavy electricity; or, if wet, GM crops.

[Lib] eeeek! [pen] That is SO cute.
electric socks game
I went to the Tate on Sunday and there was a painting by Peter Blake called "Self-Portrait With Badges". My mum turned to me and said "I knew I should have worn my glasses; I have just been looking at that and thinking 'I can't see any badgers'."
hahaha!
[std] That's much better than your other joke.. :)
Thanks again for being so nice. Have cash from trip to bank. Have attempted to fix central heating (nice plumber told me how) but its not playing. Oh well, cold showers are good for the soul, so I'm told.
[pen] That's quite desperate of the bloke/boy. She must of made quite an impression. Maybe it was the wet tee-shirt!
the things mums say
I thought I would share with you something my mum said that had us all in stitches. She went with my dad who is now 72 to get him some new glasses. He had the tests and all that and mom chose some new frames for him. He nearly had a fit at the price but mum told him not to be such an old miser and things are expensive these days. Dad moaned a bit, but capitulated and bought them. My mum relayed this story to my sister and told her the price. Even my sister was taken aback at the expense and said to mum "Mum, are you sure they are not designer frames or something?" Mum looked puzzled and replied "No they weren't designer frames, they were called Arniemarni or something" She is priceless.
Beware Greeks
(With apologies for the cross-post and rather late announcement)

I have 3 spare tickets (stalls) for the matinee performance of Berlioz's "The Trojans" by the English National Opera tomorrow (Wed 29th Sep @ 5pm). I was wondering if anyone was able to join me for this - one of only 5 performances of a show which has apparently won the 2004 Olivier award for Best New Operatic Performance. Details of the show can be found at www.eno.org

If anyone is interested please contact me on oneiros_sama[at]hotmail[dot]com. First come, first served.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled chat game.

breaking the silence
Well... quiet in here, innit?
Yes it is!
I'm hoping to get hot water tonight. The plumber is coming! Headlight also went on car (completing my triplet of disaster) but the very dishy student doctor fixed it for me. Bless!
Gosh, Lib, it's an absolute litany of disaster (I wonder, incidentally, why "litany" always has negative connotations these days - a litany of disaster, a litany of crimes, etc). I have a colleague whose bathroom fell into the flat beneath some time ago and for months she had to come to work early to have a shower there. So it could be worse...
wet and warm
*dances around crescent naked having just got out of shower*. I like hot water!
warm and erm..
Towel?
Gerrof!
I'm enjoying this.
fully clothed today
*waves at the boys*
Spoilsport
*sulks*
Brollies Inc
It's raining! Today is Friday. On Wednesday we had 12mm of rain. Thursday we had about the same and today we've had 25mm or a bit more since this morning (it's about 1420K as I type. Lovely steady rain as opposed to torrential downpours. Ya-friggin'-hoo.
P'raps you could this ) back for me if you'd be so kind. . . Ta.
sunny
with some cloud. but still nice! except I have a cold. bleah.
Boring grey weather. Bring back the rain! It was nice and melancholy the other day. Very atmospheric.
Many different shades of grey type weather with optional wet bits. Lovely.
Weather
(BM) Atmospheric weather, eh? You're getting there. Sorry to jump on you like this. :-)
Boring
Sorry about the hurrah over the weather, but it's been a bit dry here.
I suspect that I may have an ally here in Breadmaster as in my part of the world today is the BIG day as far as a sport called rugby league is concerned. Heaven only knows how many trees have been sacrificed in the lead up to this world event and yet, as if that were not enough, a number of radio stations and at least one television broadcaster are commencing their so-called coverage of this pivotal point of history at noon. The game itself starts at 19 o'clock.
Does this sort of thing happen in the U.K. or the U.S.of A. or, for that matter, Canada?
sports coverage
I remember when I was a child, they used to run incessant football (american) coverage around Christmas and New Year's! I think it was the Rose Bowl - horribly boring.
Bori...zzzzzz
[Dujon] Hard to say, since one would have to experience both to compare. However, I think I'm right in saying that inter-club tournaments can easily be avoided in the UK (in a way that international ones cannot). That is, you can't get away from the football World Cup, but it's easy never to hear anything of the Premiership. I knew nothing of it before working at Sky and was, moreover, compeletely unaware of the existence of similar leagues and suchlike in rugby (or in cricket, come to that). Whereas I don't think I ever saw a newspaper in New Zealand, local or national, that didn't have rugby on the front page.
backstage gossip
(Apologies for cross posting) In case you didn't receive the last email we sent out, we'd like to let you know that there are still 289 tickets left for sale for the recording of "I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue" at the New Theatre in Hull on Saturday 23rd October.
If these tickets have not sold by next Wednesday (6th October) we will advertise them formally.
So, if you'd like to buy tickets for this show, then try to do so by next Wednesday. The ticket prices are £10, £8.50 and £6.50. The show starts at 7.30pm (Doors open 7pm). The box office is open from Monday to Saturday from 10am to 5pm. The box office number is 01482 226655.
Also, in a previous email, we advertised Linda Smith's one-woman show at the Playhouse Theatre in Weston-Super-Mare on Thursday 7th October. Due to illness, Linda has regretfully had to cancel the performance. If you bought tickets, we suggest to telephone the box office on 01934 645544.
Have the Converƒation ƒtoppers ƒinally ƒtopped?
Conversation ftoppers
(Raak) No great loss if it has. Ye kindeft thing you can say about that game was that it didn't show certain people at ye beft.
"Criminal damage, I tell you!"
In the course of my work this morning, I went to inspect an empty Council property, to which we had attached metal screens over the doors and windows for security. As I was about to unlock the screen over the front door, I looked up and saw, scrawled in black permanent marker:

MC
CHALKY
04

Any explanations, Ms Davenport...?
KD was here
Eeek! I've been rumbled.
*rofl*
Two Wheelers
*Cross-Posting Alert*
ATTENTION MOTORBIKE/SCOOTER RIDERS
We, the research consultancy I work for, are looking for new bikers [commuters or enthusiasts] to participate in focus groups around the UK. We have sorted Birmingham, but still have a few vacancies for London Groups [12/13 Oct], Newcastle [19/20 Oct], Bristol [28/29 Oct] and Manchester [2/3 November]. All evenings. Fee of £30 paid for about an hour and a half. If you or any of your mates are interested please email me kedavenport at the hotmail address, but need to warn you that I'm on holiday for a week beginning 11th Oct.
McGreetings
Managed to slap down a holding deposit on a nice flat convenient for my new place of work this morning... At least I think it's nice: certainly seemed very pleasant and spacious as I was walking around it, though I couldn't remember if it has a washing machine (the agent assures me it does). Then again - I couldn't remember if it has a sink either (but I didn't ask the agent that). So, once I've bribed my current landlord into writing me a good reference, I should be sorted. Moving up at the end of the month.. oh what fun (not).
Bikers
(Chalky) Do I take it that you are no longer engaged in elegant scribal activity?
Geordie joke
I saw this in the letters page of the Grauniad a few days ago. A woman walks into a hairdresser's in Ashington, Northumberland, and says, "I'd like a perm". The hairdresser replies, "Ah wandered luuurnly as a cloud. That's Wordsworth, y'knaa".
C V
[Rosie] Indeed I am - still calligraphing and chalk-scribing and the occasional line drawing. However, I now do lots of freelance work for a research consultancy so find myself embroiled in activity mainly connected with Exhibitions & Shows. September was Computer Games, then the Printing Industry, plus a bit of Royal Agricultural Society work. This month is Motorcycles & Scooters, then Paris [holiday] and then ... Recycling Waste Management. I can hardly wait.
C V
[Chalky] You had dealings with the RASE? You poor bugger.
Unusual tenants
[Rab]'Has it got a sink?' would be a fairly normal question in my experience as a landlady - my new tenants have just written to ask me what the rules are on hanging picture frames and pets in the house. They seemed like such a lovely couple, but the latter request is really against my principles and sounds as though it could get messy.
rab's whereabouts
[rab] good news about the gaff. Are you still in Embra or have you returned to Mancland?
pets
At least they're asking - unless it's because their cat has just had kittens and they want to keep them all.. ;)
[Ella] I'd get the RSPCA onto them if they're hanging pets on the walls.
geordie hairdresser, continued.
.....so the woman says "You don't understand, I want my hair curled." So the hairdressed puts her head in his fridge.

A scottish man walks into a baker's shop and asks "Is that a doughnut or a meringue?" The baker replies: "Naw, yer right enough, it's a doughnut".

Animal Cruelty
[Dunx] That was my concern! Obviously I need to learn how to express myself more clearly through the medium of the written word or alternatively improve my sense of humour!
[Ella] ... or I need to read posts properly before I write. I hadn't woken up yet and just didn't notice your very well-expressed joke.
Sleepyhead
I'm back in Manc now, having caught up with my new (and, yet, somehow, old) colleagues last night at the annual poster session (which essentially is a front for a booze-up). [Ella] I'll check about the sink - welcome by the way.
Thank you
[Dunx] I can sympathise! It usually takes me a good few hours before I remember who I am in the morning let alone how to read and write. [Rab] Thank you for this fantastic site. I happened on it whilst searching the web for bedroom furniture (?!) and as you may tell, am now completely hooked. I do feel as though I've gate crashed a party full of old friends though - hope you don't mind!
welcome!
[Ella]My apologies for being thick about your post.. and I'm not that old!
*waving*
Hello Ella, welcome! Hope soon you'll feel part of the party!
Mornings
(Ella) I know what you mean about mornings. Being retired, I have decided to do away with them entirely, but it only postpones the befuddlement. Welcome to the asylum, which is of course run by the inmates. BTW I'm a bloke.
bedroom furniture???
[Ella] Welcome.
[Ella] All old friends were once new friends. Welcome. BTW I'm a spiny anteater from New Guinea.
[Ella] Welcome and .... oops! quick got to go line manager on the loose.
Welcome Ella
Searching for bedroom furniture . . . it makes a change from "Jade Goody Nude".
Hello Ella
No, if she'd wanted Jade Goody Nude she'd have ended up at MC in Outer Space. MC5 is a decent site with none of that filth, despite our best efforts. (Note for the uninitiated: a look at the "Google hits" info on the MCIOS screen reveals a distressing number of people who not only search for Ms Goody as God made her but thereby find their way onto the MCIOS page. No-one knows why.)
Jade Goody Nude
Yes, I don't know why Dan doesn't just rename the site.
jade goody nude
Breadmaster] Imagine my surprise when I did a google search on "jade goody nude" and searched through for MCiOS, and LO AND BEHOLD, I found that IT WAS YOU that was linked to.......
kafkaesque zebrafish
thanks to all of you for making me spend teh last 30 minutes trying to find a GOOGLEWHACK. But hey - I suceeded !. Never again.
Whacky
[st d] You recall this of course?
[Ella] Will you be frequenting the other MC sites too?
[St D] Splendid! I knew my crusade (consisting solely of repeating the phrase JADE GOODY NUDE as much as possible) would bear fruit...
[Bm] Do you do it in real life too, then?
[All] Thank you for a very warm welcome! [Darren] I've just spent some considerable time following the links to some of the other sites. Consequently, I've cancelled all appointments I had made with the outside world for the next year in order to give myself at least a slight chance of keeping up with all of the MC banter and games available. Who needs a family/job/friends anyway?
*ding dong* Paging Chalky
[Chalky] Did you get the mail I sent you (to both addresses) last night?
*ping*
[rab] YES! *OOPS - TURNS OFf caps lock*
Was 'called out on business' straight from the office which is euphemistically known as 'went to the pub', then crashed [out, not into]. Thanks. Good stuff - am following it up as I type - hence the caps lock. I'm gibbering now. My brain is full up.
[Darren] Naturally. This is one reason why, like Ella, I have no family/job/friends either.
[rab] No birthday cake this year? Oh well, have a good one anyway.
Cake
[Lib] I'm saving myself up for a big plate of curry tonight...
currying favour
[rab] many happy repeats!
Is it just me or is there a bowl of soup on the front page?
Only joshing
I think it's a Rogan Josh.
Double take
BtD] You know, I thought it was just me...
Well, if you want to drink soup from a metal dish, I guess it's a free country. *is waiting for the girls to get ready, and wondering if we'll make it to the pub on time...*
mmmmm...
curry!
[rab] Happy bday and enjoy your curry!

I had a very nice curry on Friday night, although that was mainyl to avoid cooking after a grisly day.

Opens doors and activates fan
Through the eye of a needle...
I had a korma on Friday night, and spent most of the next 24 hours on the pan with minor food poisoning... Hope yours was better, rab!
Handily
It was a very lovely Lamb Handi, thanks, preceded by some lovely veggie samosas and accompanied by a couple of drinks.
currylicious
Make your own curries and then you don't have to worry about food poisoning! I made one tonight with onion, garlic, LOADS of butter, garam masala, chili powder, chick peas, potato and a bunch of fresh baby spinach leaves. Damn fine.
Lamb Handi
Sounds like the RSPCA need to be told . . . .
And I hope you washed your Handi afterwards.
radiooooooo
I finished my first radio show! It went quite well although we started off with major technical problems (we'd burned our playlist onto a CDr which the station's stereo refused to read) - luckily I'd brought all the original CDs to the studio in case of such an emergency so it all worked out! My co-host tried to ridicule me on some of my choice of songs but I was having none of it. You can't faze me! And I ain't stopping there! It's so exciting! I'm so glad I got the chance - it's hysterical when it goes wrong but it's so much fun! And I got most of it on tape too! *dances*
Congratulations!
What radio station are you broadcasting on?
Hey! I used to have a radio show. I didn't need a co-host to ridicule my choice of music, though, as I could manage that by myself.
playlist
ZK] so tell us what it was then, so we can ridicule it too, or perhaps join in in being ridiculed by suggesting some others your co-host might liek to laugh at. And what did s/he choose ?
Server move
Well, apart from the odd hiccup, that went pretty well. If you can see this, your DNS has propogated. Welcome to MC5's new home.
Our playlist was as follows: Footloose, by Kenny Loggins, Johnny B Goode, by Chuck Berry, Stuck In The Middle With You by Stealer's Wheel, House of Fun by Madness, Waterloo Sunset by The Kinks, Frontin' by Jamie Cullum, Havin' A Party by The Osmonds, Dancing In The Street by Martha Reeves and the Vandellas, I Quit by Hepburn, then some other stuff which went out the window because we ran out of time due to the tech failure at the beginning of the show, so we just stuck on Bohemian Rhapsody instead.
[Breadmaster] An interesting thought...I may be able to quietly bury her under a patio somewhere and do the job on my own :)
Good lord - I've actually heard of two of those. You can't be very mainstream. Now, tell us what channel you're on (or whatever the radio term is - I don't know - I don't understand radio!) and we can adjudge for ourselves!
[Nik] Congratulations. Is this the tiny new low power server box, or something else?
The tiny 'new' low power server box, yes.
[Nik] I see a yes, and my cursor turns into a ? when over it, but should something else happen? (MacOS X, Safari.)
[Nik] Ah, I see the popup now, Safari waits a whole second before showing it.
Poppers
[Raak] And disappears a whole second before you've had time to read it. Anyway, jolly good, ho. Not been able to post from work as the DNS hasn't had time to propagate from Withington to Chorlton-On-Medlock, clearly. You'd've thought that if a Magic Bus could do it, the newfangled Interwebnet could...

[ZK] Not a shockingly bad playlist, but, given that (I believe) you're a shade younger than I, shouldn't you be knocking out some more banging tunes than I did when spinning the wheels of steel plastic in 1995?

radio ga ga
We asked for a specialist show rather than a mainstream one so we could play absolutely anything, otherwise we'd have had to have stuck with Burn's playlist (which, quite frankly, isn't very big) - the show's called the Nostalgia Hour (well, it has our names in front of that) and we can play absolutely anything from 1950 through to 2004. As long as we like it (or one of us likes it) we can play it. Unfortunately, we're on at 10 in the evening once a week and our broadcasting power is about 3 feet, but I told all my friends to listen on the internet so the only problem they have is when that crashes. The frequency is 107.3 FM which I think works on the radio just outside the studio and not in many other places. If you absolutely want to listen to me make an ass of myself go to www.burnfm.com. We had more modern songs on the playlist originally but ran out of time so we ended up with Frontin (2004) and I Quit (1999). The Guild has more than enough people playing predominantly banging tunes already, and they get put on during the day when people are actually listening to them, so I reserve my right to act like I'm radio 2.
Ooh, that went on a bit..
I did a very silly thing yesterday....
....got locked out of my house. Pulled the door shut and thought 'Arse'. And if I did leave and keys with a neighbour then the one I'd chose is away this weekend. Tried the credit card thing and other silly ideas (like putting my hand through the letter box), but Mr Locksmith fixed it in the end. I felt very silly!

[ZK] Good playlist! Good luck with your next show. Which night do you broadcast?

And what's wrong with pre-1950? Play some Louis Jordan, and let those hep cats pick up on what you're layin' down, put on their zoot suits, and have a natural jivin' ball! Preach!
[Lib] Wednesdays.
[Breadmaster] Nothing, but I didn't think I'd be able to persuade my co-presenter to play back that far. I'm hoping to sneak a few in every now and then without telling her.
Jiving
(Breadmaster) Not a lot of jiving pre-1950. It all started when Rock Around the Clock came to the local fleapit about 1954. Even I was a bit young for it, being about 11 and still into locospotting.
Eh?
You mean people didn't 'jive' to Pennsylvania 6-5000? Mind you I thought that this was all about a steam engine when I was younger (I finally realized that a 6-5-0-0-0 was an odd configuration).
[Rosie] Ah, you just have a listen to Louis Jordan's Saturday Night Fish Fry and then tell me it all started with Mr Haley...
Jiving, and all that good stuff
(Duj, BM) You're probably right, actually. When you're only 11 everything is new. Rock Around the Clock brought it much more into public notice, probably. (Duj) I've always thought Pennsylvania 6-5000 was a telephone number. My Big Band usually play it on gigs because it goes down well with the oldies, i.e. people of my age or even older. (BM) A friend of mine, who plays tenor sax in another Big Band I play in, runs a Jump Jive band called One Jump Ahead. They do a lot of Louis Jordan numbers and I've heard them several times. They also do a British version of Route 66 - "get your fun on the A21". Good stuff.
locked out and locked up
[lib] My good friend got so drunk on his 21st birthday that he lost his house keys, had to break a window to get inside at 2am. Shortly after he was arrested by the police when his neighbours called in a report of a stranger in their spare bedroom. They were quite religious people and were not impressed with the conition of the bedsheets either.
tonite
Just to say I won't be about tonight at the e-pilg, I'm on a date... :o)
wahey!
[pen] oooooooh!
Jive Talkin
[Rosie] Pennsylvania 6-5000 was and is a phone number. Specifically, the phone number of the front desk of the Hotel Pennsylvania situated in picturesque Manhattan, on Seventh Avenue opposite Madison Square Garden. Which is round in point of fact.
phone numbers
I'm glad it is! I thought I was going barmy.
Indeed
Fair suck of the sav! I did say 'when I was younger'. To be honest while I knew it was a 'phone number in the song I did not realize that it's a real one.
Phone numbers
(Stevie) Not in Pennsylvania, then? Mmm, have to think about that. Internal telephone exchange, perhaps? :-)
ring this number...
There's also a Ry Cooder song with a phone number in it - 6345 789 or something. Has anyone ever tried calling that one?
Ring my bee-ell (ding dang dong)
[pen] Never mind about that - how did it go?
last night, she said...
[rab] Really, really well. Might be meeting up tonight too - he's just trying to cancel something else... tee hee!!
What! Two nights in a row! Sounds serious. You're evidently not a Rules girl, and a good thing too.
We meet every night at eight...
[Bm] It's either tonight or in a week's time, and as I might be less enchanted at the end of seven days, it's as well that he moves his diary around to accomodate me, heheheh. I've been told that if he makes me his famous bruschetta, I'll want to move in. Frankly, the SW1 postcode would be enough, but I'll go over for the tomatoes-on-toast anyway.
6-5000
[Rosie] Back in the Olde Dayes™ the phone exchanges in NYC were named, like those in London. One would dial two "letters" of the exchange name (in this case PE I believe though I haven't checked) then the digits 6-5000 giving the familiar (to a New Yorker) seven digit numbers. These days you have to dial four more digits because there are two area codes in Manhattan, the original "212" and a new one which we all think is "646", though no-one important would accept such a new-fangled invention and therefore anyone in a "646" area code is by definition not worth calling (pshaw). In point of fact, the Hotel Pennsylvania lost the 6-5000 number and only re-acquired it a few years ago amidst great media hoopla.
Four shall be the count
[Rosie] I forgot to add the startlingly uninteresting fact that all phone numbers must be preceeded by dialing a "1" when an area code is required in the USA. Which it always is when dialing anywhere in the five bouroughs of NYC. Even if you are in that area code when you dial. If you don't dial the "1", a recorded voice tells you to hang up and redial with the "1". This system was adopted at great expense for subscriber dialling convenience.
Waking up
[pen] You go girl. Sounds very exciting. Good luck!
Telephone Exchanges
(Stevie) The names of London telephone exchanges used to be quite original, but have ceased to exist as such for about 40 yrs. Off the top of my head I can think of Waxlow, Pollards, Livingstone, Renown, Tudor, Museum, Bluebell, Vigilant, Speedwell. There are loads more in this vein that give you no idea of where they are. You don't need an area code to dial in London, but two four-figure numbers. There used to be a laundry near where I live whose number was Upper Warlingham 27. If it existed now it would be 01883 620027, not a London number, obviously. How boring it all is!
Tittle tattle
Bring back the party line I sez.
countdown
In twenty minute's time, it'll be a week since the last post in the Electric Sock game. Any suggestions for replacements?
Do-do do-do doodlioo-doo. Boooo!
Well I was thinking things have got a little dusty recently, and looking through the MCiOS archives I note we haven't had a letter-writing game for a while. Not of the Mrs Trellis sort, but one where each player writes an entire letter. Examples of this genre include Letters to the editor and Wish you were here?. Of course, I'm always more in favour of things that haven't been tried before. At least, that's what I told the volleyball team last night.
slottage
I quite fancy a team game [the last one was in MCiOS earlier in the year] 'cause they invariably draw the regular contributers/lurkers out of the woodwork.
'Specially if we can have team colours !
[rab] Is it possible to use color in the Name box? I've just tried it using my usual sticky-back-plastic-html methodology but nothing happened ...
ooh
That sounds interesting! What did you have in mind?
they let WHO on the radio?
For anyone planning to listen tonight, be warned. Apparently they decided last week we were very responsible so we don't need a committee member to look after us...or, in fact, anyone else in the studio. Now, I take this as a great compliment and also as a sign that we are going to die tonight, seeing as how it means no technical help if we arse up! And we picked the playlist yesterday night. Should be an experiment in thinking on our feet...
Teeming
[Chalky] Nope.
Or, to be more substantive, any HTML in the 'Name' box is stripped to avoid forking up the front page.
NOT IN COLOUR!
[rab] Natch. I see the Apropos Box has also been stripped unless I'm missing a trick there aswell :-)
How about a game of tag-wrestling? Not seen that in a while.
[Chalky] Also true - but that's given me an idea... howsabout I set it up so that if you type 'Red', 'Blue', 'Hampster', 'PeachPuff' or whatever into the 'apropos' box, that word is then colourised, so it would look like:

    rab - Red
    Maida Vale
That'd be fairly easy to do without requiring too much cluttering up of the interface. Would take me about half-an-hour or so tonight to do.

[Projoy] I never understood what Tag Wrestling is all about - can you explain to me please.

Guten Tag!
You have two teams. The object is to tell a story collaboratively, alternating between teams. Each team has a closing phrase with which they must end the story in order to win the game (e.g. "and then they all moved to Mexico because of the cheap tagliatelle."), but obviously the story must steer naturally to that closing phrase, so it becomes a literary tug of war. It might be especially interesting to try it in rhyming verse, come to think of it.
Here is an example from the Yorkives. Other than an outing on Orange last year(?), I don't think we've played this game "straight" for many years.
Sounds good - would rather do it straight than get versical.
tagging along
So everyone, regardless of team colour, tells the same story but each team has its own 'finishing post'; the teams move in strict rotation [?]; perhaps limited words per entry to curtail the more verbose amongst us?
Phone Boorishness
[Rosie] :o) When AT&T was forced to share its lines with MCI and Sprint, there had to be some way of figuring out the tarrifs. MCI and Sprint addressed this in 1984/5 by issuing cards to subscribers with a convenient account number and pin that had to be prepended to the number you were calling. Titus A. Crab, one of my highly-paid consultant co-workers (same contract as me so I know), fell for the spiel and I had the great joy for about two months of watching him dial England from New York. The account numbers were 10/12 numbers long. The PIN was another 4. Then there was the 5 digit 01144 to get the transatlantic cable link. Then the brand new four digit area code. Then the (even newer) six digit phone number (and we all forgot to add the leading zero at least once). Titus would invariably suffer from mis-directed digit syndrom 15-20 numbers in and have to start over. Word would get around he was phoning and everyone in the vicinity would begin loud conversations involving numbers in order to precipitate more of these humorous mistakes. On a good day it could take him 30 minutes or more to establish that all the lines to England were busy.

All this so he could save a few cents on his calls. >:o)
Taggin'
So one team might have the line about tagliatelle, and keep steering the story towards Mexico, whilst the other team might be trying to steer it back to fit their closing line, which is about the Emperor Hirohito? Could be interesting...
I'd love a team game, but they generally do work better on MCiOS because of the colourised names.
Another game suggestion
OK, a third idea: Cat Chess. This charming feline pastime is actually quite a tactical game. Each player plays one cat, usually in a village setting. The object is to move to a point where you can see all the other cat-players and none of them can see you.
Ah! Now that sounds interesting. Do any archived examples exist?
Tagging along
Why not both? Considering this server is streamlined down to 10 games (ft. this one, and the Furcation Game, which no-one seems interested *cue mournful violin: give money now!*), could we not petition to expand? I often think a couple more would widen the appeal to more players, resulting in burgeoning popularity, and, of course, votes in key areas.
And yes, I've realised I'm waffling, but at least I'm stopping now. Let's tag!
Cat Chess
[BM] Er, not as yet...
*votes for tagging wotsit*
Tag
Can whoever sets this up also start with some sample code for the colours? That way the team members will look alike and those of us with rudimentary HTML skills will be able to join in without ruining the game's patina.
Ragbag
If you'll give me about 10-15 minutes to check my upgrades and put them online, you won't have to learn any HTML at all!
Right!
Well, that seems to work. There's now a new style of game, called the 'Team' game which eschews Apropos for a Team colour. Enter a colour in the box and hey presto - it might be recognised. I suggest we give it a whirl in the 'Team Talk' game to see how it works, and then when we're bored kill that and play a team game proper.
BURN FM
Oh dear. I read out the studio e-mail tonight and my co-presenter suggested it was a sexy phone voice. I then put on a different one and proceeded to suggest that that one might work better. I then spent the rest of the show taking e-mails from my flatmates demanding I read out sentences of a dubious nature in said voice...which I did, of course, after making them promise to pledge money to charity.

Apparently we're meant to play music on the show at one point or another...
Titus A. Crab
(Stevie) The things people will do to save a few pence or cents (or pents or cence) never cease to amaze me. They put a very low price on their time and temper, obviously. What was his real name, BTW?
Radio
[ZK] Aha, so you're either Lottie or Laura, then. I see your show is classified as "specialist", which sounds about right from your descriptions...
ZK's radio voice
I'm clearly at the wrong university. where are you?
and I'm back in case noone noticed/cared. check orange for more.
Names
[Rosie] Real name???? Are there those among us who espouse the use of pseudonyms then? Titus certainly made his Mark though.
[nights] Well, I noticed. Nice to see you back.
[Breadmaster] thank you. really, you've made me grin in a public place on a wet and dreary evening in darkest somerset.
[Breadmaster] I am indeed. And it was the only way we could get a show where we could play what we wanted (asking for a specialist show, not doing a silly voice). It also meant they stuck us on at 10pm, but there are advantages to that. Like being able to run over 20 minutes because you feel like it and you're the last show on :) I listened to the tape of the show with my flatmates when I got home - ah, how we laughed :) I apparently took them by surprise...and there was a very silly message for me in the fridge magnets this morning.

[nights] Your return is welcomed and makes me finally beg the question I've been longing to ask: why are you called nights?
I'm in Birmingham (hence BURN FM: Birmingham University Radio Network) - and I feel for you. We had our 2 weeks summer holiday last year in Somerset during a massive heatwave...well, it was a heatwave everywhere else except in Somerset, where it pissed it down for 2 solid weeks ...so I know the feeling. *sends sympathy vibes to nights*
[nights] Now, let's not talk about that particular wet and dreary evening in Zummerzet - at least not in public...
[ZK] cheers. ah, birmingham. home of huge pigeons if I remember. Somerset is nice in the summer, but it's rubbish in the winter. So why am I here all winter but not in the summer? makes no sense. I asked about BURN because it's a popular shout around here. (person falls off something or something else bad happens:) "buuuurn." I don't understand it either.

and I'm called nights because a) when I chose it I was living mainly at night, and b) bernard seemed inappropriate. so thanks for your interest. I might have asked this already but what does ZK stand for?

[Breadmaster] come on, you're going to have to admit it sooner or later. Avon and Somerset's finest have already been at my little door...
winterland
[nights] Would you consider anywhere in the UK to be 'nice' in the winter?
I ask that because I'm a bit weird and I actually prefer autumn and winter, seasonal/scenery-wise.
btw - welcome back :-)
[Chalky] I'm weird in that way too - I think I have reverse SAD. However, let's not start the perennial "winter or summer?" debate. People have lost friends and indeed limbs over that one in the past.
Ta-ra!
Off to sunny Wales for a week - see you all later!
perennial?
You mean we only have the debate every other Winter?
Eh?
Perennial means every year.
er?
I rather thought it meant lasting throughout the year in a perpetual sort of way. Also, in a botanical sense - lasting more than two years. Not that it really matters :-)
Perennialitude (© G W Bush)
(Chalky) Yeah, it does really. But certainly not every other year.
[nights] Zooological Keeper, after a line from the Goon Show.
Zooologicality ((c))
ZK] Which one? You wouldn't make me go and listen to all of them just to find out, would you?
ZKism
oh yes I remember now. all I need to know now is - does BURN stream online? I'll have to have a listen.
[Projoy] You're thinking of biannual, surely? I must admit to not being entirely sure of the meaning of "perennial", now I come to think of it. It's one of those words that one uses without really thinking about it. I think it means persisting from year to year, or possibly appearing at least once a year. Perhaps.
Biennial = every two years, bi-annual = twice a year. According to my mother who is a gardener and deals with these terms regularly.
[BM] I've already explained the meaning of perennial - back up there ^ ^ ^ ^
oooh - that looks a bit schoolmarmish. Sorry. Anyway, to get away from the semantics, I'd like to announce that for a change I stayed in tonight and watched loads of crap TV and REALLY enjoyed it.
[nights] I haven't recommended it any other way. My flatmates were listening about a mile down the road and had to hold onto the aerial to get a decent signal. If you go to www.burnfm.com you should get automatically redirected to whatever the real URL is, given a few seconds. I warn in advance that the show is mostly total gubbins, but we do have fun. If I knew how to get the sound onto a form of software I'd put some soundbites on here, but sadly I only have it on tape and don't own a minidisc player or anything similarly hi-tech. I played The Voice at a house party tonight and apparently I could make a fair amount of money that way. Speaking of which, does anyone know how a 19-year-old with no skills or previous experience can get a job that doesn't involve doing the unspeakable?! No-one wants to hire me!
paying attention
[Tuj] "Ah, good morning, Zooological Keeper!"

Inspired, eh?
ooh yes
And I believe it's from an episode called "Insurance - the White Man's burden"
randomly
What is the correct spelling of Hamster? I always thought that was it until I nipped into Mcios, and now I'm not sure.
spelling bee
[ZK] As it happens, both spellings are acceptable :-)
As for the employment - are you seeking permanent full-time or temporary full-time or perhaps part-time, or just holiday work or support-yourself-through-your-studies work; days, evenings, nights, weekends or all four? C'mon gal, we need details!
"Hamster" is the correct spelling for the animal, yes. "Hampster" is a misspelling that caught on rather well and is therefore the de facto standard here ;-)
tsk!
[JLE] I refer you to my previous reply. BOTH are acceptable. Curiously enough, there IS life outside the Morniverse.
... speaking of which, another branch of my family are doing the Sunday lunch thing at their house today so I don't have to cook. Whoopee!

And ... bye bye you lovely people ... I shan't be around for quite a long time but hope to have lots of news when I get back :-)

Puzzled from London
But if "Zooological Keeper" is from a radio programme, why the extra "o"? This story doesn't add up, inspector. As for jobs, assuming this is something part-time now, I think it makes sense to think about what you want to do later in life and try to work towards it. However, I am the last person anyone should seek career advice from.

Come back soon, Chalky!
Chalk face
[Chalky] Where'reyou offto?

Should also point out that I'll be in an Manchester-Edinburgh limbo for the next week, and net access may be rather more patchy as I haven't got round even to arranging old-fashioned telephone communications technology at the new abode yet.

perennial
Ah, just shows how much I know about horticulture. [Chalky] Also curious about what takes you away.
[Chalky] Part-time work to fit in around studies and volunteering (which I cleverly picked for 10.30am-1pm on an otherwise free saturday...what a silly cow!!!)
[Breadmaster] I spelt it as I heard it, which seemed to be Zoo-ological, but I couldn't be bothered to put a dash in. I thought 3 os looked better...And I haven't the faintest idea what I want to do later in life. But I know it doesn't involve picking up glasses after boozy students.
Ahhh... Well, it is actually spelled with two Os, even though there are two syllables there. Perhaps it should be spelled "zoölogical", although that would look a bit silly. But of course, since it's your name - kind of - it's up to you how to spell it.
Sorry, I feel a rant coming on.
Last week (Saturday night to Saturday morning) I was on a week of nights. This involves me working seven 13 hour shifts in a row, thats a working week of 91 hours. In my penultimate hour I was taking blood from a IV drug abuser, I take blood every day and an IV drug abuser is nothing special. Anyway, the needle slipped after coming out of her and ended scratching my skin and it drew blood. I washed it under the tap and told the necessary people and booked in as a patient to my own A and E department.
Then the faffing began. Nobody knew what to do, and the right policy couldn't be found. I was finding it all a bit much (partly because I was feeling such a spanner and partly because I was so TIRED) so hid myself away in the staff room and cried. My consultant arrived and she took control. All I wanted to do was go home and go to bed, however they didn't seem to understand that all I wanted to do was sleep or let me leave ( it was deemed that I wasn't safe to drive, due to all the tears and I live half an hour away from the hospital) so I was sent to a colleagues house to wait.
The drug user’s blood was sent to Manchester for emergency tests and special strings were pulled so the tests only took two hours. Finally the phone call came through and all her tests were negative (for scary things like HIV, Hepatitis B and C), so I was finally allowed to go home 4 hours late.
I know that accidents happen and these unlucky things are relatively common and I've been fortunate to have a clear result so soon, but I don't think it was a coincidence that it happened at the end of a 91 hour working week.
*goes humbly to pick up glasses after boozy students*
Knackered doctors
(Lib) There are dozens of occupations where hours are strictly limited and have been for a long time. Train driver, bus driver, for example. So why not doctors? I can think of a few answers, none of which reflect well on the administrators. Is my cynicism justified? Your rant certainly is.
My dad has the same problem. Of course, how many MPs do you know who are or have ever been doctors and therefore care?
[Lib] (((hug))) I'll never complain about my job again.

[ZK] I do happen to know that a certain supermarket chain recently bought by Morrisons is hiring down here so they might well be in the jolly Midlands. If you can put up with eight hours of beep... beep... and can ask "would you like cashback?" with sincerety, then apply! It's fun! Really!
Offski
Disappointed that I've managed to only half-fill the van. Well, looks like we're off...
I've just realised that I was in fact complaining about my job opnly about a minute after promising not to do it. *sigh*. I need a drink. I know it's not even midday.
Needle Stick
:o( Remote hug sent. Feel better.
Normality
Cheers everyone. Thanks for the support. Have been some kind of distorted celebrity at work today. Hoping tommorow I can have some normality, and put the whole nasty experience behind me.
[Lib] Well good. I'd like to publicly mark the passing of one of the greats of music, John Peel. He played an important part in helping me see past mainstream music and start listening to other things. He'll be sadly missed. Rest in Peace, Peely.
John Peel can't be dead!!!!!!!!!!!





He's not, is he?





Is he?
a quick trip to BBC news later
disbelief declared He is, as well. They say bad things happen in threes - who else are we going to lose in October?! I add my sentiments to those of nights.
Now, I don't wish for one moment to cast disrespect at Mr Peel, whom I have never heard speak and thought was simply a whimsical article-writer for the Radio Times - although I did read an article of his in which he described the guitar work of Hubert Sumlin as miraculous, and I also know that he possessed more records by Lightnin' Hopkins than any other artist, so I approve of him. But in what way can someone who wasn't a musician be regarded as one of the greats of music? Isn't that rather like calling Brian Sewell one of the greats of art?
Interesting point. One might say that John Peel was a great aide to development within the music industry, by introducing a lot of new and diverse material that might not otherwise have been publicised. I don't know precisely in what capacity Brian Sewell works within the art sphere - I presume he's an art critic *prepares to get shot down in flames* which isn't quite the same thing. So you might rephrase it as "one of the greats of music journalism", or something.

None of my business really.
JP
If you want to understand something of Peel's influence in popular music you could do worse than to spend a couple of minutes reading through some news articles, tributes and the various obits that have appeared. It's not like they're hard to find or anything.

Let me however try to give me a feel for why Peel was a much-loved figure in music. First, he's been on the modern (Beatles onwards) pop music scene for as long as that scene existed - in fact he used his Liverpudlian connection to get himself a job in the States on the back of the Beatles' success at the start of his career. He genuinely seemed to love all music that had been created with a passion, right from Belgian nosebleed noisethrash mp3s through to jazz standards recorded on crackly 78's. His Radio 1 programme would typically showcase both of these and everything inbetweeen. His links were usually extremely witty and peppered with little anecdotes about the band whose music he'd played, or some little story about how he came about purchasing that particular bit of green vinyl from a backstreet record shop in Groningen. Even as he was starting to draw a pension, he was still producing two hour shows three times a week. The consequences are severalfold: (i) he gave people who tired of the formulaic easy-listening pap that makes up most of a radio station's playlist a refuge where something more challenging could be found (but without taking it too seriously like what more eclectic programmes on R3 do); (ii) this exposure to a wider range of music (such as, I understand the DIY ethos of the punk movement) inspired many people to start making music themselves (see the tributes passim); (iii) it also gave budding musicians something to aspire to, viz getting Peel to give them a session and help get them noticed (if they were any good); (iv) it also created the impression that he would always be there, one of the reasons why he is sorely missed.

It's impossible to know how different the pop music tapestry would be without him; but I think it's wholly appropriate that he should be saluted for having made a huge contribution to the particular way it came to be woven. I think that's what people mean when they say he's a 'great of music'.

John Peel also played a mean Jaws Harp on the Third Ear Band's album Alchemy.
missed
[Peel] Wish we'd had one of him in Australia. :-(
JP was also seen on TOTP beside Rod Stewart, playing the mandolin on Maggie May.
It was well known that if you sent him a demo he would listen to it - for fear of missing something. Thus Blur, the Undertones and many more got a play on his show before any record companies had heard of them.
I also admired him for 'Home Truths', although it wasn't really my sort of show - the way he could get ordinary people to talk about extraordinary and/or very painful things was an example of the interviewer's art that most others could learn much from.
[Breadmaster] I think you could say "one of the greats of music" in the same way that Jean Cocteau was.
Do You Ken John Peel?
[Breadmaster] Alternately, one could simply troll through an on-line CD store for "John Peel" and see how many now-famous bands owe their early exposure to the man. Shameless marketing can sometimes have an unexpected benefit to the consumer and these "John Peel" CDs are some of the best in my collection (although I don't collect them as such, I do add them to my exsisting collections of material by bands I like).
How is everyone writing in bold and italic and normal? (At least on the other forums).
[Knobbly knees] try following this link to DrQu+xum's Basic HTML.
knobbly HTML
I love that page. It's taught me a lot... and in real life too.

To start a new topic, what are we all listening to as we post?
[nights] The cooling fan.
Silence
As I take worshipping the almighty Crescent very seriously I always post in complete silence, while sitting in the lotus position.
hummmmmmm
The hum of the server, the toot of the sandwich van pulling up in the car park, intermittent Tourette-like outbursts of frustration and the clattering of keyboards as my colleagues - nay, UNDERLINGS get on with their proper work while I skive.
Whiiiiiiiiiiine
[nights] My tinitus.
For some reason, the latest CD I've bought is one of chamber music - trios, quartets and quintets - by Schumann. So that's what I'm listening to.
oh gosh you're all funny. I'm listening to one of my legendary mix tapes on headphones while sat in the library.
[nights] You think a background whistle that cannot be silenced no matter what you do is funny? You are one sick puppy.
My ears are alive with the sound of music
I'm listening to the music of a band called Elbow. Somewhere between Schumann and tinnitis.
The beat coming from the morons downstairs.
It's gone very quiet in here. You don't all live beneath me, do you? Only that would be a sure sign the cyanide cake we sent them worked.



Oh, have I said to much? *prepares to destroy the evidence*
*too much
Ear, Ear
I've been listening to various radio shows today, and will start to listen to the last HHGTG episode in a bit. Probably. Other than that, it's the whirr of three or four computer fans and the occasional whine from the cats.

But what I'm really listening to is the sound of my going up the wall as the local anaesthetic from my dentist's visit wears off and my gums itch and my teeth hurt. Aargh!

Local anaesthetic, climbing up the walls
I was watching TV with my flatmates the other week and they switched onto something about cosmetic surgery. Squeamish enough as I am at the best of times, I started busying myself with the fridge when they started describing how one woman was going to have reshaping surgery on her genitalia. When they proceeded to mention that she was having the operation under local anaesthetic, I decided it was time for me to leave the room.
whining noises
[Bif] No, I'm not sick. I was just too tired to read entries properly. Bad nights. In your basket.

[ZK] Oh isn't shared housing lovely? Still, I got up at 06h45 this morning to make sure I actually got a shower today before gettingthe 08h bus. Worked as well.
33s and 45s
Got my first ever P45 today. Whee!
really? first ever? I'm 19 and I've had two... and I made it home again despite the best efforts of First Avon and Somerset Buses.
[ZK] I assume this woman had some ghastly deformity which was being corrected, but my mind is now fillinh unavoidably with the concept of cosmetic genital reshaping, like a bizarre form of topiary. What will they think of next?

I am currently listening to nothing. However, I will shortly be listening to - and indeed watching - the nice new DVD I just got, which is vol. 3 of the American Folk Blues Festival 1962-69. It looks like it's probably not as good as vols. 1 and 2 (especially the latter, which featured among others Lightnin' Hopkins, T-Bone Walker and Howlin' Wolf, bringing the coolness factor dangerously close to critical mass - as well as the apostrophe quotient), but this one does apparently feature a young and hip Buddy Guy. I saw Buddy Guy a couple of months ago and he was old and hip, and kindly let us have our picture taken with him once we'd beaten our way through the frenzied fans. Never have I seen such adulation of any performer - you'd think Jesus had got onto stage to unleash a few funky licks. So I approve of him.

Anyway, I should, hopefully, be listening to a lot less of unwanted noise now that I've moved in with my young lady friend for a bit. This is a much quieter area and the walls are thicker. In my old flat, I could hear my next-door neighbour snoring as clearly as if he were in the room with me - a ghastly thought. He apparently went to bed at about 8pm and stayed there for at least 12 hours, as far as I could tell. Fortunately I have a large and versatile collection of ear plugs - but I'll be glad to use them less for a bit.

I'll be quiet now before this starts to turn into a blog. Whatever that is.
seriously
cosmetic. i kid ye not.
uuuuurgh that's just bizarre. when are you on BURN again ZK?
[ZK] Before: Wayne Rooney or possibly Jesus, if Google is anything to go by. After: Chilly Gonzales ??
feel the BURN
10-11pm on wednesdays, except this wednesday is our last show as the station's license has run out until march. daft.
Mondaypilg
ah. yes. Hmm. I wil be unable to join you for the chat on Monday as I will be in Italy. For the whole week. Hurrah!! (And as for the date situation, we just had date four - brunch in Chelsea - and it's still lovely.) :o)
dates, figs etc
I just got asked out and said yes...what do I do now?! *hasn't been on a date in 2 years and the other ones all sucked*
ooh MC love. go for it, be witty, be charming... be yourself.
Prunes
I'm not sure I've ever been on a formal 'date' so I don't know what the protocol is. Hello from Edinburgh - I also won't be at the chat tonight as I don't have a phone line yet. BT claims it doesn't exist, but I can see it, and if I plug a phone in, there's a continuous tone which I believe is the 'you need to phone up BT to make this work' noise, but BT claims the phone line doesn't exist so, erm, ...
passion fruit
[ZK] I think "turn up" is the first step, but after that I'm not sure.
[ZK] You're asking people online what to do on a date? I think by definition we're the last bunch to ask such a thing!
BT hates me, you, all of us.
[rab] when I moved into my house down here the first thing I did was test the phone line, got the same result you did, called BT from my mobile and they turned it on and set up my account the same day. however they're now making it very difficult for me to cancel as we've now got telewest, so swings and roundabouts.
sorry to comment twice, but I've had an awfully good idea for a game. so first dibs on any new slots that come up...
Date
[ZK] I have said this before, but it bears repeating. While on your date, do not under any circumstances bite your datee on the buttocks no matter how firm and round they look and no matter how opportune the moment seems.
[nights] Weren't we about to do the whole tag team thing? Or did that happen really quickly and I missed it?
[Stevie] I've just spent the afternoon having worse suggestions than that put to me by my friends. In front of my date. But I have to ask; are you speaking from experience or common sense? If the former, please give details.
on tenterhooks
[ZK] So, how did it go? Need to know! Hope your friends didn't put the cat amongst the pigeons too much!
im too horny for my own good
no doctors out there then!?
im a nurse think iv got same simptoms as you
im a guy! how so the same
oh yea. well i know your gagging for it now yea??
MY DICK IS HUGE RIGHT NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
before we were so rudely interrupted
[Lib] Allow me to clarify my own scrambled english. I referred to the lad in question as "the date" although the date is fact not until thursday. Although they were taking the mick so much he had to wait until I left and follow me to sort out precisely when we'd be going, as we couldn't talk sense with the rest of them around! Ah, stupid gits, though I love them all. So I'll let you all know, probably at about 3 in the morning on Friday.
[ZK] good luck, I'm sure it'll be fine. Just be yourself. Worked for me, and never mind the fact that I have been single for exactly one year today. Sob.

[Tuj] I think you missed it dude. I think. I might be thinking of MCiOS.

[travis, b laine] get the hell off this server.
Hello
No, we were going to have the tag game. The team-test game was there to test the team colours out, and the intention was for someone to start the tag game in its place. But no-one did, and some passer-by started something else instead. Your bad.
nothing at all
I'd just like to say how lovely it is not to have to use the airconditioners now that the weather's cooled off over the last fortnight. Most readers here would be used to the opposite problem, but let me assure you it's not been at all nice. And it's great to be able to walk outside without fainting from the heat and humidity. 18 to 30°C is pretty good, really.

Back to your regularly scheduled programme.

Buttock Biting
[ZK] Oh, very much from experience I am sad to say. And when Mrs Stevie found out it went very badly for me, I can tell you. She drinks far too much coffee and as a result can be a tad excitable over the most trivial things.
hampster
Strangely, I was speaking to a work colleague today, and realised that his breath smelt of hampster! I was a bit distracted, as you might imagine.
dates, figs etc
Well! Remember my radio show? The station's licence is up till march, so last night was our last show for the forseeable future. I couldn't figure out why Lottie was so jittery....until my date for this evening (now I boyfriend, I'm given to understand) turned up in the second half of the show with a bunch of red roses. I think I may be onto a winner here....
[snorgle] Said date also kissed me, an experience I tried to make as brief as possiible as I'd been eating crisps all evening, and then, later, cheese sandwiches. Breath is indeed a tricky business.
[ZK] Well, you must tell us when it's back on the air. The show, I mean, not the snogging. We wouldn't want to listen to that. Well, not most of us, anyway.
March - if we get another time slot. Though if Drinky backs us up (which I think he will) we should be alright.
I sincerely hope so. I missed the show as I was busily eating chinese food at the best chinese in the world, the hong bistro, southgate street, bath. go there, eat yourself pear shaped.

We now return you to "The Banter Page". As we left, ZK was telling us all about her love life...
Date Breath
[ZK] What flavour of crisps? Be explicit.
Well...
hampster flavour,
obviously!
Crisps
[Snorgle] You call that explicit??? Where are the long descriptive passages on the sensual texture of the comestibles and the overwhelming tide of passion they aroused in your young, inexperienced bossom, or the desire they sparked in you to dress in tight, shiny, man-made fabrics?

Now I'm hungry again.
Ready Salted
[Stevie] Here, have a crisp.
Overactive and underemployed
I'd just like to announce that I have played a move in every MC5 game today.
If you're feeling at a loose end, howsabout you expand that in the Furcation Game? It could use a bit of a kickstart, that one.
The Furcation Game
I think this game needs an advertising campaign, because I love it. I've devoted small chunks of my life to it twice now, and yes it's a behemoth, but things just seem right with the world once you've moved. Go on someone, please!
Once you've moved
(Tuj) Absolutely! I am never so agreeable as after a good shit. Ooh, wonderful! (Stevie) Wossa bossom, then? Have I got one? Have you?
crisps
[Stevie] Ready Salted, I seem to recall. Still, we had a good smooch after donuts on Thursday. Heck, he'd been eating onions and I didn't even notice.
Not that we were randomly eating onions, mind you. That would just be silly.
Furc
[Tuj] I desperately wanted to, but after about six months of not posting a move it became apparent that I don't have quite the spare time I once did. Which is a pity, because I long ago thought of a particularly devastating move which would have given new meaning to the words "it's hard to play Acre Street variants".
Proj]
Ooh... No, must remember curiosity killed the cat. Mind you, I'd imagine it's an easier task to play a move now that the dramatic strands have been conbined to some extent. Anyway, to a player of your character, surely 18 moves is nothing... ;]
18 moves?
Yes, but if I wanted to play it competitively, I'd have to do a lot more than 18 moves in order to raise the bar. :)
Benevolence
Maybe to promote other people to join in you could play a few less - after all, it is The Furcation Game rather than Acre Street. Wouldn't that be nice for the community?

Then when they're in you can get 'em...
I would participate in the Furcation Game, but I have absolutely no idea about HTML. Bit of a handicap.

[ZK] Hooray! You seeing him again?
Cross posted from MCiOS
[theatre folk] Sorry for being a bit spammy, but if you know any folks in London who are theatrically minded, Thos and I are in the early stages of planning for Jekyll and Hyde - the panto, and we're looking for a production team. If you know people who'd like to add something unpaid to their CV (but done in a proper theatre, like), please could you ask them to peek at the vacancies halfway down this page? Spam ends.
Furcating
nights, and anyone else] The HTML isn't that tricky, and as I discovered on my first move you can generally just steal other peoples' tables and the like and repaint them. Then there's that excellent basic guide people regularly post links to which I can't remember the address of...
It is a site created by our own Dr Q+ (who seems to have disappeared) and can be found here.
[nights] Well I hope so, seeing as he's my boyfriend now. Hurrah!
Of nothing
There's a sticker on my door proclaiming "Blood donors love life" which somehow feels like the opposite of a grocer's apo'strophe.
[rab] careful, you're drifting into grammar pedant territory, and I know enough of them by fortune of being a languages student.

[ZK] Oh I am pleased. Good for you!
Acquiring boyfriends..
[ZK] I think I might have one too... how many dates does it take to qualify?
Amorous taxonomy
[pen] Based on negligible experience, I think "boyfriend" is what you call it when:
  • ...you stop counting dates.
  • ...the next date is "when", not "if".
  • ...you start counting days/weeks/months since the first date.
  • ...you stop calling it "dating" and start calling it "seeing".
Nononono
The state of boy/girlfriendshipness must be formally announced, ideally through a public advertisment in The Times, but these days more commonly on the official web-based boards set up for this purpose.
Cultural differences
I always understood the situation to become officially acknowledged when, and only when, you were finally caught out behind the bike shed. Or adult equivalent, I suppose, in this case.
I think that it's when engaging in romantic liaisons with a third party would be frowned upon by the other person. Unless they're involved as well, of course. That's an entirely different matter.
Announcement
Penelope is proud to announce that after many years of searching, she has found a man with sufficiently low standards to happily accompany her for cocktails, noodles, full English breakfasts and participate in the odd snog.
[Rab] will that do?
aw it's all going off around here. let's hope nights is next, eh?
Yey Penelope!
Yey yey Penelope!
I just hope I haven't spoken too soon
I just hope he is good enough for you.
Penelope's New Love
I too enjoy "odd" snogging. It has been a cause of much friction between Mrs Stevie and me, but only when she's asleep as she finds the whole thing a little strange (or as she would jokingly put it "Get the hell away from me you twisted goon").
hmm..
What's odd about your snogging then?
Go Pen, GO!
*Dances round with a multitude of glee at Pen's excitement and sings 'Hurrah, Hurrah, Hurrah!* Well Done hon! Also keeping fingers crossed, just incase!
Well done Penelope! I thought you put "participate in the odd song" at first.
Goodness! It must be - er - something to do with autumn. I'm very pleased for you all, and kind of jealous, which is odd given my non-single status. There's something thoroughly pleasant about starting going out with someone that is intrinsically better than actually going out with them, however nice and fulfilling the latter may be. I'm sure Aristotle had something wise to say on the subject.
Inamorata di Pen
(Lib) Better than keeping your legs crossed.
that's enough of that please, ladies. hoorah for you, pen! hope it works out.
(nights) I'm not a lady, and possibly not even a gentleman. :-)
I knew I'd get a comment like that. gaaaaah.
[penelope] Er, I don't know. People asked us if we were boyfriend/girlfriend before we went on our first date, and we agreed that we were. I don't think it's supposed to be done that way. However, I hope you've got one. A boyfriend, that is. Yay! All my friends hate me now, even the taken ones. It's quite amusing.
[ZK] If your friends hate you now it must be because they nurse a secret and all-consuming love for you, and cannot stand to see you attached. This can be a problem if it leads them to murder your beau horrifically and attempt to win your love by sending you his heart through the post, but you can turn it to your advantage by cynically playing on their feelings and promising them affection in exchange for obeying your whims. Correctly done, this can result in your having a small army of emotionally warped zombies at your beck and call. Then you're the one who decides who gets horribly murdered.
Studento della lingua
Rosie] Inamorato, I'd say...
Breadmaster] When's the film version out? Sounds great!
emotionally warped zombies
[BM]I've got a friend who does that..
Gender confusion
(Tuj) And you'd be right - clever c***. :-)
ruling the world via a personal league of zombies
tempting, tempting...
I think it might be time to emigrate. goodnight everybody!
Standing ovation
Does anyone know where I can buy a hatstand?
if you want to get ahead
[Rab] cheap option - junkshop. I bet IKEA do one too...
TITFER - beech veneer bentwood hatstand, with room for three trilbys, or one beret plus a Homburg.
How smart though, to be be wearing so many hats that you actually need a hatstand!.
standing hats
[Pen] Surely if he was wearing them he wouldn't need the hatstand?
Hatstand
[Rab] By drilling a 3/4" hole in your hardwood floor and gluing a length of broomhadle into it one can fashion a hatstand in minutes.
Buy a moose. That way, you can take a selection of hats with you wherever you go without worrying about them being flattened in a suitcase.
Rosie] Charming... I almost take that as a compliment! Mind you, I'm only 300 points away from getting my PedantGold Reward Card...
Hatstand
AT a fraction of the cost of Penelope's Ikea "TITFER" (assembles in two or three evenings) and Stevie's daft "broom" lash-up one could buy a pound of ten-penny nails and pound them into the walls all over the house, providing instant access to a low-cost hatstand wherever one was when the urge or need to de-chapeauinate overcame one.
A sterling idea
Bif] Pounding takes effort though; even persuading someone else to do pounding takes effort. Now, you may think Stevie's idea takes effort, but it's effort for something seemingly pointless, bizarre and/or amusing, so that doesn't count.
These are the rules upon which society should be based. Well, they work for me.
An Objection
At the risk of incurring the Wrath of StevieTM, a not inconsiderable factor given the fearful doings of same in a strikingly diverse range of arenas, the biggest problem with the broom handle idea is that it will make an excellent hatstand for exactly one hat, notwithstanding the possibilities of stacking. There may need to be pounding of nails in order to provide sufficient hat affixation devices upon the broom handle for it to be a practical proposition.

There is the additional worry that if this broom handle pounding is performed that you will be providing a readily accessible spiked club with which one might be, how shall I put it, persuaded of the error of one's ways by an irate spouse, partner, or owner of said hardwood floor, so maybe we should just be content with the one hat after all.

Objecting
Dunx] If you've been beheaded you don't need any hats at all... My lies, my beautiful lies!
Further thoughts
I suspect that Stevie is, in his utilitarian and no-frills manner, thinking of a situation where one has only one hat, and a broom handle would therefore provide adequate hat-storage capacity. After all, you can't wear more than one hat at a time, can you? So there's no need for more. Although, to be fair, my parsimonious attempts to "slim down" all the contents of the wardrobe along this principle drew stern wrath from my own irate partner. I tried to argue that one only wears one set of underwear at at time, but this had little positive effect. So perhaps the broom handle idea would prove equally unpopular.
No, no, no...
It's actually a hatstand for two hats. Hang one, wear the other. The minor inconvenience of having to wear a hat to bed is more than made up for by the elegant and unfussy look of the stand.
*makes her way to IKEA just off the A720 in Edinburgh*
"One TITFER please. Can you deliver it to Rab in town this afternoon?? Thank you."
On line
Hello again from an infrequent visitor. I'm now PC'd and broadbanded-up at home, so might be about a bit more. (Not immediately though, I'm off for a pint to celebrate getting this thing working!) Is everyone enjoying their weekend?
Before I depart for that pint.....
Can anyone point me in the direction of Dr Q's handy guide to HTML?
Here it is.
After more than just one pint
Thanks Darren, you are a wonderful person.
bladderd still and lost
Bring back missiv trellis
[splooge] We've got a Missive Trellis game running on Orange MC at the moment ("The Epistle of Mrs Trellis").
[Bigsmith] yes I am thanks, I've got a week off from lectures. hooray for reading week!
[nights] Enjoy!
tales from the front line
[everybody] you'll like this. while working at *a certain well-known UK supermarket chain* on saturday, I had a woman refuse to pay for her shopping, because the total was £6.66. she had to buy some chewing gum, mainly out of fright, before she would cough up. honestly. just a number.
Man trouble
I spoke too soon. :o(. I'd pay for the £6.66 shopping - everything else I do appears to be jinxed, what more could go wrong? Double :o(
uh-oh
Poo.
neighbour
[nights] Couldn't you offer her 1p cashback and charge her £6.67?
[pen] :o(
no.
[bool] long story, but no. cashback of 1p would be more trouble than it's worth, in many varied and frightening ways.
[pen] he's not worth it...
[pen] what? nooo! why?
Foolishness
[nights] More proof, were any needed, that the entire human race is totally beyond help and needs to be culled urgently before more stupidity is committed. You should have told her that "666" is only one possible reading of the verse, and that variants exist, notably "646", and I don't see anyone worrying about that. It's just about Nero anyway.
Further to this, consider the exceptionally annoying experience I had today. I went to the bank to draw a bank draft in foreign currency that I urgently need to send abroad. They told me that they can write a bank draft in pounds on the spot, but one in foreign currency has to be done by the head office, and takes a week to arrive. I asked why they can't do one on the spot. They told me they didn't have the equipment. I asked what equipment they required for this that wasn't required to write one in pounds. They looked shifty and muttered something about printing and exchange rates. I decided to give up on the argument rather than start asking them how a bank was unable to determine an exchange rate - I mean, if only head office can do it, why can't they ring them up and ask? I also decided not to press the matter of its taking a week to arrive from head office - do they send it by donkey? This is the kind of ridiculous rubbish we have to put up all the time. Insane, arbitrary rules that make no sense whatsoever, and for which no explanation is offered. For God's sake, how much harder is it to write a draft in Singapore dollars than it is to write one in pounds? I also restrained myself from correcting the bank person's execrable English ("They can send it to us or to yourself..." - "yourself" is reflexive, you mouth-breathing moron!). Why can't anyone in London talk properly?
I'm going to go and simmer down now. This is how I get after night shifts...
Yourself
'Yourself' as misused by e.g. hapless bank tellers is usually a sort of attempt to sound professional or formal by someone who is not sufficiently in command of the language to be able to do so properly. I find it grates too, but telling myself that does reduce the irritation quotient - a bit.
I do my 'bear with a sore head' impressions in the mornings, such as today, when I was woken up by the Jehovah's Witnesses Q: 'Did I disturb you?' A: 'Yes.' The fellow should have withdrawn gracefully then, rather than trying to run through his spiel. It was not appreciated.
Door knockers
I sympathise, Simons Mith. Some years ago I seem to have stumbled across a method of reducing/eliminating nuisance calls from the Mormon bretheren. I had a shop at the time. A couple of their 'missionaries' came a-knocking in an endeavour to sell me their wares. In a shop, for heaven's sake! Anyway it was a quiet day so I took them on. An hour or so later, with only a few short interruptions for customer attention, they left - leaving me with a copy of The Book of the Mormon (interestingly sub-titled Another Testament of Jesus Christ) and a promise to pop back in a few days to give me time to have a look through it. They did not return. Disappointing in one way, most pleasing in another.
J.W.s
Luckily for me Bigsmith Towers is equiped with a large forward facing bay window, so (during the hours of daylight at least) i can see the buggers coming. This gives me the time to dust off and cue up a bit of good old death metal - something like Venom or Cradle of Filth - strip to my underpants and answer the door with can of Stella in hand. They don't stay long....
Door-to-door religion salesmen
What's their success rate like, I wonder? It strikes me that anyone vulnerable to this sort of thing would have succumbed years ago, and then would sell out to the Mormons and so on as each came round in turn. If their success rate truly is zero, WHY DO THEY WASTE EVERYBODY'S TIME DOING IT!?
Another testament of Jesus Christ...
...from the author that brought you "Blessed Are The Meek", "Render Unto Caesar" and "Oooh, this Cross Stings A Bit".
Dim Wits
I've often wondered about that myself, Simons Mith. After all, if my forebears are to be believed, even the tramps used have a 'secret' code which they scribed before someone's dwelling to indicate 'Probable', 'Possible', 'Unlikely' and 'Don't go in there the dog will eat your balls and dump your remains in the bin'. Then again, most tramps are probably better organised (and intelligent?) than those of whom we speak.
I can just imagine it, Projoy: Bible IV The Ultimate Experience - Includes the Creator's Cuts.
annoying door people
I live in a student house, and it was a student house for many years previous. I think they've learnt that we have absolutely NO surplus money - it all goes to tescos or over the bar. and I generally tell jehovah's witnesses I'm jewish. gets rid of them.
I love it when Jehovah's Witnesses come round. I engage them in discussion and refute them. Unfortunately, they tend to be a bit thick and not realise they've been refuted. Eventually they try to get away but I don't let them. It helps if you have a Bible to hand, since their Bibles are subtly rewritten, for some peculiar reason. They're obsessed with the bit about the sea in Revelation.
seeing them off the premises
An acquaintance of mine found they left pretty sharpish when he fired a shotgun into his own living room ceiling.
Try to reason with Jehovah's Witnesses. Score 1 point for each time they try to prove something by saying "but it says so in the Bible". Score 5 points if they agree that something in their manual isn't as accurate as it should be. Score 10 points if they want to leave plus get a bonus 5 points for getting a free Watchtower. I got 26 points once.
I live in a flat now, with an entryphone, so I never get them anymore. I did used to enjoy arguing with them, but if I am in that mood nowadays, I can simply come on here and say something that I know will get Breadmaster going :).
I wonder that the JWs haven't yet thought of email spam as a method of disseminating the good news.
witnessing
They don't try very hard around here - a couple came to my door, quite elderly and passed over 2 free Watchtowers without saying much more than hello. The lady asked me if I thought Jesus was born on Xmas Day, so I just said "I dunno" and shut the door.
Unwanted callers
I have learned from experience that a little politeness goes a long way: for example:

Double-glazing salesperson: "I just want to ask you - if you could have any room in your house double-glazed for free, which would it be?
Self: "None of them, but thanks for calling." [Click]

Financial services salesperson: "Do you have a couple of minutes to take part in a customer survey?
Self: "No, but thanks for calling." [Click]

Door to door religious salesperson: "Can I interest you in the word of the Lord?
Self: "No, but thanks for stopping by." [Click]

I find that the little gesture of politeness catches them momentarily off their guard and enables you to put the phone down or close the door with a clear conscience and without leaving an opportunity for comeback.

[Projoy] I hope you're not lumping me together with Jehovah's Witnesses! Reminds me, for some reason, of the old and rather silly joke, according to which a man sees someone about to jump off a high building and attempts to talk him down. He tries, "Do you believe in God?" "Why, yes," replies the would-be suicide. "What a coincidence!" says the rescuer. "So do I! Are you a Christian, Jew, or Muslim?"
"I'm a Christian."
"What a coincidence, so am I! Are you Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox, Coptic, Persian?"
"I'm a Protestant."
"Why, so am I! Are you Lutheran, Reformed, Anglican, Methodist, Baptist, Evangelical Free, Pentecostalist, Quaker, or Anabaptist?"
"Reformed."
"Me too! Are you Remonstrant or Non-Remonstrant?"
"I'm Non-Remonstrant."
"So am I! Are you Prelapsarian or Supralapsarian?"
"Supralapsarian."
At which the would-be rescuer pushes him off the ledge, shouting, "Die, you heretic!"
[Kim] on the one hand, you're right, and I should probably make the effort to be pleasant. on the other hand, being forced to say "thanks for shopping at *a certain well-known UK based supermarket chain* " really gets on my nads, so I feel like all my politeness has been used up.

however, I DO manage to say "cheers drive" to every bus driver I meet, and on a good (or possibly bad) week, that's at least 20. thank goodness I've got a bus pass.
Drivers
[nights] I know two people with bus driving experience, both of whom detest with a vengeance being addressed as "Drive". Unlucky, I say.
Slightly more Celebdaq
Just interupt and barge in for one moment, one of my other Celebdaq accounts Not the Ant Hill Mob is on the front page at No5. *jumps up and runs round the room again*
celebbing
I got to No. 4 on the front page once *sigh*. Now, I think both my accounts have lapsed - both newjustine and evil_edna. :o(
trumpet blowing
I'm pleased that I'm currently second here.
There is nothing like a dame ....
Gosh. We currently have no less than 3 Knights Of The Realm/Garter/RoundTable gracing the Home Page - Sir Henry, Sir Joseph Ba'guette and Sir George the er .. hesitant.
They're becomin' orflay commonplace nowadays ..
Gravelly voice
Hello, Chorlkey... nice to see you pop in for a bit.
deep velvet voice
Why thank you, kind rabster. Why so gravelly?
Acksherly, I did a bit of popping last week but have now fully completed my peregrinations abroad so should get the chance to pop in for lots of bits from now on :-)
Just had some aggregate delivered, you see...

Meanwhile, I wish the person calling the phone in the next office would get used to the idea there's nobody there...

Aggregate
(rab) And what did it come to, in total?
[Bigsmith] on the other hand, half of the bus drivers in Bath are Polish, so they probably don't get it.
driving
I usually thank the bus driver, just with a "Thanks". Mind you, in Cardiff, they come in for a lot of abuse including being stoned and shot, so I feel sorry for them.
Bus drivers
I have more contact with bus drivers than is good... too much public transport usage! And a "cheers" or "thanks" usually suffices, 'cause generally they're very moody. I've only ever met one nice one, and he was actually a scheduler/office worker or summat who'd been drafted in to drive the last bus of the day. Still, he gave me a lift about 8 miles off-route and didn't crash into anything, so I'm not complaining.
round the bend
I once got on a local bus in Pontypridd, driven by the usual driver, who was very nice ordinarily. Unfortunately he had just broken up with his girlfriend and seemed to have a deathwish - as we drove along some roads with very steep drops without stopping the whole trip it was a wee bit scary..
Bussage
In Edinburgh the whole 'to-thank-or-not-to-thank' dilemma is solved by having exit doors in the middle of the bus. Communication with the drivers seems to be strictly discouraged, in fact, by virtue of them sitting in a perspex isobooth. Your fare is poured into a slot, whereupon the driver presses a button to signal its descent down the chute of destiny into the locked safe of eternity (they don't, famously, give change). The ticket appears from a hole in the wall. The whole thing works so that even eye contact with the driver is a near impossibility... I quite like it that way.
Bus drivers
In a more civilised and less cost-conscious world we'd have bus conductors and the driver could get on with his job undistracted, and undelayed.
I had the eerie experience last night of travelling on a coach whose driver had the exact same name as me. I'd never met anyone else with my name before. It's decidedly creepy.
My colleagues googled me and discovered someone with my name that they claim also looks exactly like me. I dispute this (not only because he's over 50 and American). But I'm still slightly disturbed.
Someone with my name draws Harry Potter fan art. Someone else is a pop star. And another one is head of a Meat Board (?) or something, if I remember correctly. But I'm the best one. :)
Whereas I (as could a great many people I suspect) can be fairly sure that my name is unique, even if we discount my middle name. Anybody with my surname is a member of my father's-side family and due to cultural/ethnic reasons, the probability of any of them sharing my first name is extremely low.
According to google, I have one phonetic namesake (ie her name is spelled wrong) who's a successful college runner in the US. Anyone who knows me will know she's not me as I'm crap at running, whereas I am rather brilliant at writing - she doesn't have any google-indexed articles published on the Institute of Biology's website.
[LotUS] Are they all Lords of the Under-Stairs?
[auto-googling] - I'm a professor in Vermont. What's slightly more surprising is that I'm female.
Namesakes
I'm not going to bother googling - there are at least three more of me who work for the same company as I do (and the bastards never forward me messages or post they get by mistake). On another subject I've started this last week or so re-playing my old collection of CD singles in alphabetical order. The batch in hand currently are by Claytown Troupe, Close to the Hype, a couple by Marc Cohn, and Tommy Conwell & the Young Rumblers. Happy memories....
Namesakes
One of my old piano teachers claimed to have *another* student also called Jonathan Ellis...

However, he lacked (1) the same middle name as me, and more importantly (2) the ability to learn something such as Chopin's Polonaise in A flat in less than a week, be able to hack the second half of Rachmaninov's cello sonata in four days or - as happened today - when accompanying a baroque-music oboe class in which the student was playing on a modern instrument and the teacher on a Baroque instrument which was tuned a semitone flatter - to sight-read the same piece both in the original A minor and transposed into A flat minor, switching between them every two minutes depending on which one of the two was playing which instrument at the time.

Which is why I make a reasonably survivable living that pays the bills and mortgage working freelance at the RNCM: whereas he gave up the piano completely, went to study law, and had two houses and no mortgages within the first four years after completing his studies... *sigh*

I'm pretty good at some things as well.
Hern
Especially creating confusion in the Mini Cheddars game.
actually I think I had a hand in that. ooops.
[JLE] *empathetic sigh*
well, I'm hopeless at handstands but quite good at Guinness casseroles
small cheeses
(nights) Can't see anything wrong with your contribution. :-)
Winter clean
Hello. On one of my occasional wander-throughs I noted that the lost consonants game is now a year old. I thought things were looking a little dusty around here, but I didn't realise that dusty. I moot a winter clean, and the start of, at least, a team game since I went to the trouble of writing the team-colours strap-on. Only thing holding me back is that I'm currently an active participant in practically zero of the games, so who am I to say anything?
[rab] seconded. lost consonants has been discussing its own end lately - why not put it out of its misery.
Lost Consonants must be retied! I want to lay a new game!
Make Way! Make Way!
Well, I've just made some space by taking advantage of poor defending at Here and There. So Lost Consonants may still have some tim to save itself.
Spirited away
[INJ] That's the spirit!
Electronic tagging
So, anyone up for a spot of tag wrestling?
oo-er
[rab]Strap-on? Thank you for an interesting mental image on a boring (ie nothing whatsoever to do) work day. ;)
Kicking heels
So no tag game then...
Inkers] Personally I'm very much up for it, though wondering how many teams we'll have. Has the mising consonants game received a stay of execution? Unless his rabness just wishes to make the tag game because it has already entailed some effort... ;]
'netiquette
< moan > In the past, new games have been launched AFTER consultation [however brief] in here. Seems as though the latest three have appeared without a by-your-leave. I'm all for following up rab's hard work with a Team Colours Tag Game but just wish I could be here when a slot appears. < /moan >
Perhaps a bout of serial killing is called for ...
*Offers Chalky a silver hammer*
[Chalky] Thank you for saying what I wanted to say, but declined for fear of appearing overly heavy-handed. In fact I've half a mind to kill all the games, and start afresh...
freshness?
[rab] Seeking a feeling of freshness? Try changing your underpants!
naaah, I'm all for a few changes. Go ahead. Cull a few.
From the eats, shoots and leaves department
Email just received: "I have mail for Dr. Factory Mallard. Please email me, his room number or department."

[pen] May I assure you that my gussets are always lemon-fresh.

I agree with everybody. a fresh start is a scary prospect, but quite an attractive one I'll admit. kill some things that seem twisted and nasty, and plant some fresh young vibrant things. or start a new game, whichever you prefer.
What the Furc...
The Furcation Game is an undoubted work of art, but the last serious move [Tuj] was 4 months ago and it seems to be in a sufficient state of decay to be attracting the local graffiti artists. Is anyone planning another megapost, or should it quietly pass into history?
Furcing hell
I vote for putting it below the line. It can always be reinstated on special occasions, monarch's birthdays and the like as required. Except I'll have to do this 'behind the scenes' as the game is, in fact, unwinnable. One more vote (from someone like Tuj, Martha or matt) and I'll do it.
Oh, and can I suggest that for Tag Wrestling, the two team colours be navy and crimson?
*rushing in and out *
Bags I be Crimson - [navy don't look much different on my browser]- please someone start the game - haven't even got time to look back and see what we consenced on ... never mind compose a suitably beguiling, witty pre-match talk ...
OK, how about cornflower blue instead?
Lovely, petal :-)
Tagnation
Who's in which team?
I guess you join the team who's turn it is by making a move.
rab] Or the cornflower team if you want to win, of course.
Re: the games crisis (or not), I'm of course staunchly in favour of keeping the Furcation Game going, which hopefully doesn't make me unique... unless you want to cryogenically freeze it (with its own special not-quite-in-the-archives bit on the games list, o' coruse) - provided something similarly gargantuan is put up in its stead, like Acre Street or a Long Winded Variant. Just to discourage the itninerant game starters Chalky moaned about (seconded). And what exactly has been got into with the "what have i got myself into" game? Its ugly unpunctuated appearance on the page angers me...
NB
"O' coruse" is ancient Gaelic for "naturally". That did affect the punctuation of that sentence too...
Blimey Tuj - such erudition! But glad you're still speaking to me :-) [clue = Scissor Sisters]
I'll be brutally honest, I've never understood the furcation game, so it's passing is no great worry to me.

I wish I could look at the rest of the site but I have printing to do so it'll have to wait until lunchtime now. bother.
Special status
I think a special status for the Furcation Game would be appropriate... I'll just have to think a little about what that would actually mean.
I vote special status for the Furc Game. So there :oP
Jolly Good
And that might just be the fillip I need to get cracking with a new move over the Christmas break.
it's a sad state of affairs when I'm on campus from 08h45, and my first opportunity to check these boards is now, 17h07. today, however, has been an exceptionally busy day. grr.
Business
Students working... whatever next?
rab] Good luck with Fillip. And was that really Martha Farquar?
[tuj] crikey I hadn't noticed... hello Martha!
[rab] oh hee hee, yes we're all awfully lazy, we never work, etc etc...
[nights] Who said Uni. wasn't a good training ground for a 9 to 5 job? Welcome to the real world, sir. The world where such hours are considered to be short and there's no student union available for cheap beer and there's no lovely undergraduates gracing the premises and where everyone grows old and where ... *sobs*
PC erratum
That should have read: " . . . no intelligent . . . "
Time-inappropriate recreational activity
(Duj) So what are you doing in here during working hours? We know where you live. :-)
Trawling for intelligent undergraduates, Rosie. I thought that was obvious. .   ;-)
Yeah, 'n mi 'ouse is allus open for them I just said, rite?
[nights] That was a tongue-in-cheek comment.

But what's going on here? Why was the Tag Wrestling just killed like that instead of having another round? Why are other games that should have been killed twenty years ago still limping on with festering wounds and a slightly disgusting smell? Why do I bother?

[rab] sorry I don't think my eyes were focusing. looking at it now you were being quite clearly humourous, and my brain just didn't process it. It's doing that a worrying amount. gaaah. I'll not bring up university again.
and I'm not sure why you bother, but I really am glad you do, as it gives largely computer illiterate buffoons like me the chance to have a bit of a laugh on a daily basis, and that's something to be pleased with, I think.

[Dujon] it's ok, I know full well what 9 to 5 is like, I do it most summers (well, the last two anyway) at our local council as an admin assistant. unlike a lot of students, I do actually know what work IS (moan moan moan, grumble, shake wiggle wiggle - I'll shut up now.)
Sorry if I seem grumpy today - the reason being that I am. A slight hangover is not helping the fact that due to a "system error" (aka fuckup) I've not been paid. And since I've not yet had any opportunity to hand anyone my P45, I expect that when the 'emergency payment' is made on Monday (assuming no further fuckups) it'll be taxed to buggery as well and take about six months to sort itself out. I really have no idea why we pay these people.
looking on the bright side
Perhaps they haven't been paid either :-)
Non-payment
(rab) Are you a victim of Capita, or Crapita as Private Eye calls them? Why do we pay these people? Because they're cheap and nasty and cheapness is all that matters. Chalky's suggestion, though a comfort, is implausible.
(Takes deep breath before launching into boring story of evil ex-boss) Let me tell you about my evil ex-boss. He was the most evil and deeply twisted person I have ever imagined (apart from my sister, obviously). He trusted nobody. Thus, my immediate boss was in charge of the company's finances, but he couldn't sign cheques. Only Bob (EE-B) could do that. And if Bob didn't want to sign a cheque, he wouldn't. Thus, cheques that had been written to pay bills were rudely returned to us if the bill had not already gone beyond the second warning and become a lawyer's letter setting a date for the court action ("ONLY AN IDIOT PAYS A BILL WHEN IT ARRIVES!"). This principle extended to employees' wages, which were also all paid by cheque. If Bob was in a bad mood (which was pretty much all the time) he would simply not sign them and we would all have to wait indefinitely for our money. What of our contracts? Ha, we didn't have any, because Bob didn't like contracts. Why did anyone work there? People either left within a couple of days or had their spirits utterly broken and became trapped. I escaped after seven months. I would further list Bob's other charming characteristics (his habit of chain-smoking cheap American cigars, his casual racism and sexism, his astonishing right-wing views, his incomprehensibility, owing to a combination of an American accent with the effects of having chain-smoked said cigars for, apparently, several centuries) but I won't. The point is: we considered ourselves lucky if we got paid at all.
My boss is great, honestly. Sorry. Anyway, shouldn't we be enjoying ISAHAC on the airwaves about now? Or have I missed it?
ISIHAC
The new series beings on 06/12/04 with Linda Smith joining the regulars at the Anvil Theatre, Basingstoke. Andy Hamilton will be guesting at the New Theatre, Hull, followed by a Best of the Year show on 27/12/04. After that I'm not sure
:) :) :) :) :)
new series of ISIHAC? martha you've made me the happiest man in the south west. off to the pub to celebrate - watch out for drunken postings later on!
Oh, forgot to mention...
Hamish and Dougal's Hogmanay, featuring an all-star cast and copious tea-drinking, on New Year's Eve at 11.20pm. And there's a News Quiz of the Year. And the rest of the Xmas TV schedule sucks
Radio, I meant. And the TV schedule succks too, but that goes without saying

Zhooomph!!

What was that??
I don't know, it went without saying
[Martha] Many thanks for the information.
Cull
6 games below the line... And the Furcation Game to sort of so on the line... and I have half a mind to give "what have i got myself into" the euthanasia treatment... Exciting times. New tag variant very good.
Hmm, put a rogue "so" in there. No idea why.
[Tuj] perhaps to keep the rest of us on our toes. I'd do some euthanising myself but I'm frankly afraid to, given the jolly big mess I made on Orange.
Saedi
nights] Of course, what would really shake things up would be to end the Long Game and the Limericks game and replace those with reverse versions too...
[Tuj] The Reverse Long Game would never start!
There did used to be a Long esreveR Game at York, which eventually began, I believe.
Wouldn't an esreveR game simply be Reverse Reverse, and therefore normal?
*opens mouth to give smart-aleck answer, then closes it again when he realises how confused he is*
I have mooed a new direction for the lost consonant game. Not sure if it will ork.
Lemon fresh
Hmmm... things are certainly feeling much fresher round here. Job update: I now, finally, have a contract. I'm going to head along to salaries after a lunchtime meeting so I have the whole afternoon to moan at people. Looking forward to it...
Where am I?
Thought I'd taken a wrong turn for a minute then! Just returned from a fortnight's jolly to find all the furniture at home moved into different rooms (due to flood) and a similarly re-vamped MC site (although with rather less water involved and altogether more entertaining). [Rab] good for you! Get it all out of your system - you'll feel much better!
Scary Mary
Hello there, Ella. I was wondering what had happened to you - and hoping we hadn't scared you off. Didn't get much moaning done, sadly - everything seems to have worked out. Indeed, my pension contributions may even have been kept up to date, which is the main thing. Now... let's see how/when/if I can get a staff card...
Petrified
I'm not scared Rab, but should I be?
[rab] hooray that your job problems got sorted out - I'm going through a bit of a 'mare with *a certain well known UK based supermarket chain*, oddly enough, about contracts. I'm still on one contract, even though I should be on a higher one as I do more hours a week than that. grr. still, at least the christmas carols over the PA haven't started yet.
[Ella] No, no, no, no, no. Of course not. Nothing to be worried about at all. Perfectly normal group of people here. No risk, no danger. Nothing to worry about. No need to worry about a thing. Just ignore rab. Don't worry about a thing.
*leaves trail of dust as she leaves Mornington Cresent at high speed* :-)
Ella
Silly girl, doesn't she know she's in spoon? Running away won't fix that ...
it's gone awful quiet on here, so I'm going to borrow a technique from a message board I used to frequent. So, what is everyone listening to?
One side of a colleague's telephone conversation and the annoyingly-pitched fan in my laptop. In the distance is the quiet, repetitive shhh-clunk of a digital copying machine...
office sounds
The hum and grind of the printer trying to staple 400 documents, the tap of keyboards, and the intermittent muttered oaths and curses of colleagues as they get on with their day-to-day work. And I'm hoping that sometime soon, one of them is going to ask me if I want any lunch fetching from the supermarket... some hope.
I'm listening to PMQT. Rock on!
A presentation given by students at a posh 'do' at the top of Canary Wharf tower :) Nobody's asking any questions.
My colleague, typing. And the distant waft of Christmas CDs from the adjacent office.
An episode of the Simpsons I've got on the DVD player. (The joys of working at home.)
(aka penelope)
This is to let you know that on Monday December 13th there will be a special recording at the Cochrane Theatre, Southampton Row, London WC1 (nearest tube: Holborn) of a show starring the cast of "I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue" and entitled "Hamish & Dougal's Hogmanay Special", which is due to transmit on Radio 4 on New Year's Eve from 11.30pm till Midnight.
Regular listeners to "I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue" will know of Hamish and Dougal from their frequent appearances in the 'Sound Charades' round. Radio 4 have already broadcast two series featuring Hamish & Dougal, starring Barry Cryer and Graeme Garden in the title roles, with Alison Steadman playing their housekeeper Mrs Naughtie, and Jeremy Hardy playing the local laird.
This one-off special show will include the regular cast, with appearances from Humphrey Lyttelton, Tim Brooke-Taylor, Sandi Toksvig and Colin Sell, with some additional surprise guests. The show starts recording at 7.30pm, with doors opening at 7pm.
The Cochrane is not a large theatre (there are just 300 seats available) so you'll need to act soon to secure a ticket. The tickets cost £8 each and are obtainable from the theatre's box office on 020 7269 1606. Tickets will be on sale from today (Wednesday 1st December) From 1.30pm and thereafter the box office is open from 10am-6pm Monday to Friday, and 12pm-3pm on Saturday and Sunday. If the tickets have not sold out by the send of the week we will put them on sale to the general public. The next series of 'I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue' starts transmitting on Radio 4 on Monday 6th December at 6.30pm, with a repeat on the following Sunday at 12.04pm. It runs for six weeks including a 'Best Of' programme from the past year. Recordings of the Spring Series of the show in 2005 will probably take place in May or June, so expect notification of these recordings in March or April.
La musica
nights] You've asked this before. And the answer is 1) my stomach gurgling and 2) Lemon Jelly.
listening
OK - this is WAY later than you asked the question - but I am currently listening to a prog on BBC1 about Brian Wilson [Beach Boys] and Pet Sounds.

It's actually quite interesting.

[Chalky] If I didn't know better, I'd think you were damning with faint praise. As it happens, I'd meant to watch that but I completely forgot.
[tuj] have I? oopsie. good choice though. I personally am listening to winter chill 2003, kind of appropriate for such a cold day.
This morning, I am mostly listening to my Christmas Pan Pipes CD, which will no doubt cause a great deal of annoyance to anyone in the immediate vicinity.
[Darren] Shame you missed it :-)

Does anyone fancy revisiting Animal/Vegetable/Mineral/Abstract?

Baa
Am I alone in not appreciating Pet Sounds? Yes there is the odd good track but as an album it's rather lacking I find.
I'm bored...
Why does work seem sooo unappealing on some days? The only music I have on my hard drive is The The's Soul Mining album... or I suppose I could tune into Xfm or Radio 4 online and tell anyone who doesn't like it to butt out... Or maybe I could just leave a full hour and a half before I actually should to head for Park Lane and a photoshoot I'm to direct. Heheheh.
I wish I still lived in London
[pen] go for xfm, I'll appreciate it. mainly because I miss it from those lovely days when I lived in London.

[chalky] yes please, if memory serves that one's full of hilarity, and fibre.
I wish I lived in London
[nights] Someone else who loves London! People think I'm mad when I say I'd like to live there.
London
(Raak) Depends where you are at the moment. For my part, I would find a small to medium sized town a living death, however traffic-free it were, but it suits some people, I'm sure.
I am now, to the utter horror of the rest of the office, enjoying Nigel Ogden's Wurlitzer Christmas.
[UK] you're just like my Dad. He has asked me for, in all seriousness (I think - it was on the phone), The Organist Entertains on CD for christmas. aaaaargh.

[Raak, anyone that'll listen] I really miss London at the moment - things to do that aren't uni, work or pub!
[Rosie] I'm in Norwich, which is as you describe. I have to go to Cambridge or London for proper culture.
[nights] Where are you at the moment?
[Raak] If you've been in Norwich more than a year or two and it still doesn't have any culture, it's probably your own fault. If the people who like a certain thing always go to some other place to get it, they perpetuate the situation in which there's a market for that thing in that other place and none in the place they come from. Therefore, people in Norwich who like a certain kind of culture should never leave it, and they'll thereby coerce the place into being the sort of place they like to be in.

(It also helps if you kill off everyone who actively opposes the sort of thing you like.)

What's
a wurlitzer, Uncle Korky? It sounds amusing.
Wurlitzer
Is it animal, vegetable, mineral, or abstract? Or maybe a high-speed land vehicle?
I believe a Wurlitzer is a specialised piece of plumbing equipment manufactured from pig trotters using a proprietary process in certain secretive factories in the former East Germany. Highly sought after by installers of bidets, the common Wurlitzer can only be purchased if the buyer is recommended to the vendor by at least two other customers and after placing a bond of thirteen Austrian schillings in a specific numbered Swiss bank account.

It became fashionable as a jazz instrument in the Berlin salons of the 1920s, because of its resolutely unmelodious nature in all but the most skilled of hands (just like, say, the double bass) but mostly because it could be eaten in extremity (very much unlike, say, the double bass).

Apple Ogies
We apologies for this sudden outbreak of lying in what is usually a much more truth-inclined space.

Oh well.

Nonsense. Utter tosh! I tell you it's an instrument consisting of a broad, flat cylinder with holes drilled radially into it at regular intervals, affixed to a length of string to its center. It's also cunningly made with vanes set into it so that it will spin when swung round by its cord, with the result that it produces a most harmonious tone. It got its name when its first purchaser, speaking to a somewhat deaf salesman, said "I'll certainly enjoy showing my friends this, er... how do you say it?" To which the salesman, thinking he had been asked "how do you play it?", replied: "Whirl it, sir."
sorry, i'd groan, but...
Aargghh!
Can someone please cuff Dan around the ears.
Edible instruments
(Dunx) A double bass is probably the most edible of all instruments, being almost entirely wood. Saw it up, pulp it and serve it as a slurry with hot milk and demerara sugar, and you have the perfect high-fibre breakfast cereal. In one end and out the other, unchanged, giving the possibility of recycling after suitable purification.
Edible instruments II
[Rosie] I think you'll need to figure out how to strip away the strings during the automated production line of your perfect breakfast cereal. Otherwise people halfway across the world may think it's a brilliant idea.
Well, it's a...
I'm wondering what treats might be on Nigel Ogden's Wurlitzer Christmas. In a Persian Christmas Supermarket? In A Christmas Monastery Garden? Oh, I Do Like To Be Beside The Christmas Seaside?
Is it time to start the 'Bah! Humbug! I hate Christmas!' discussion yet?
it is most certainly time to start the "I hate Christmas" discussion (well apart from the religious meaning, but that's another story). point one - explosion in heart-rending charity adverts. I really don't like them.

[Raak] beautiful Bath still - however it's probably more to do with the fact that I have a rather large amount of work at the moment, and I don't have time for anything other than work, uni or pub. sorry, I think I was in a really crap mood when I posted that one.
humbugs
[penelope] Move here, you'll miss it entirely, but you'll have to put up with the azaan five times a day :-)
(miss Christmas, that was)
Late response to Dan
Look at THIS, it's awesome!
I had too
Sorry, I'm a little excitable today... hehehe...
Not only but also
Oh, and are we going to play Animal/Vegetable/Mineral/Abstract? If s, can we do some sort of colourful variant?
[Tuj] How about Animal/Vegetable/Mineral/Abstract or any combination thereof PLUS the colour[s] of said 'object'. Am I taking you too literally?
Chalky] Pass... I just like the colours a lot and want to reward rab's endeavour by having them used in lots of games. Plus it might spawn some new hybrid game, which is always good!
[Tuj] Have you ever noticed that if you search for pretty much any word in Google image search, there is a Toothpaste for Dinner cartoon which includes it?
ISIHAC
so, what did we all think of the new ISIHAC? I didn't hear it last night, I was on the bus (which crashed into another bus, but that's for a later date when I have more time), but I have four hours of research ahead of me later so I'll pull it up on 'listen again'.
[nights] Pretty good, as always. The new guest, Linda someone-or-other, was fine.
dodgy lines
Between the Lines seems to have come up with some odd colours, if in doubt the altenative web colours are;
< font color= “#800000” > for Bakerloo
< font color= “#FF6347” > for Central
< font color= “#FFFF00” > for Circle
< font color=> “#32CD32” for District
< font color= “#DEB887” for East London
< font color= ” #FF00FF” > for Hammersmith and City
< font color= “#C0C0C0” > for Jubilee
< font color= “#BA55D3” > for Metropolitan
< font color= “#191970” > for Northern
< font color= “#4169E1” > for Piccadily
< font color= “#1E90FF” > for Victoria
< font color= “#B0E0E6” > for Waterloo and City
< font color= “#8DBC8F” > for Docklands Light Railway
< font color= “#6B8E23” > for National Rail

It's all very pretty, dear Inkspot, and forgive my thickitude, but what exactly is the reason/point/aim?
[Chalky] I'm not clear what the Between the Lines game is supposed to be, really, but I'm assuming it's MC where (a) your name colour has to match the stations you play, and (b) to switch lines, you need to use a station which actually lies on an intersection between them. So far, though, I don't think that's the way people have been playing it. Still, that (and my almost inevitable lack of grasp of the whole thing meaning these rules are totally useless) is what happens if you don't explain the rules at the top of the game properly.
Bad lines
The idea came from wishing to use the colourised name whatsit that rab has introduced in a game of MC. Then it came to me to use the colours of the lines from the Tube map. Unfortunately the new game slot stayed open (for what seemed like several days) and so the game idea festered.
While it was gnawing away, I wondered about stations like Canada Water and Sloane Square. Could these be incorporated into the stance? Keeping it as simple as possible, a colour for the player and in the text…. sounded good at the time, this may have been one idea too far.

There you have it a colourised experimental game. If play becomes fraught it will make way for something else. Is there a point? After watching Paul Burrel eat a kangaroo’s testicle … probably not.

Bad lines
*ahem* [cattily]
... passing through
Is it just me or is there an air of despondency in here? I was up and about quite early this am, popped in to have a look and moved swiftly on ...
I couldn't even think of a faux french line 5 for the limerick, diverted as I was by Korky's bream :-) Don't wanna play colours or tag, don't wanna tell lies or furcate, the current regurgitated cheddar is looking tricky, the consonants have lost their way ... oh dear oh dear oh dear. Ah well - at least I'm posting in here :-)
[Chalks] You've put your finger on it for me. Stagnant limericks are usually easy to shift - I just write a crap last line, then start a new one, hoping others will follow with renewed vigour. I really think Lost Consonants has had it - time to say goodbye. The Colours Game is too complicated to work out for the time I have available to post at work, I'm not old enough to Furcate, and we've been too clever by half in the current regurgitation. I'm gonna go in there and play some crap moves to shift this constiptation. Hold tight... !
Poo
Tee hee, "crap moves to shift constipation" - what a lovely image, penelope. Chalky, I quite agree.
[chalky] I see what you mean, but then I like lying. it's good practise for in real life.
ISIHAC
Jack Dee will be the special guest for programmes 5 and 6 of the new series, coming from the Assembly Hall Theatre in Tunbridge Wells (10/1/05 and 17/1/05)
If anyone is going to be in the audience for those two, let me know as we could probably meet up. I couldn't get tickets myself, but I am nonetheless local.
giving a nod to ...
Penelope the Purgative
Rab the Agreeable
Nights the .. er .. seer and deceiver
and anyone else who has posted and brightened up this place :-)
Previous post... I mean was in the audience for.
Deep and calming breaths
Chalky] Time to brighten things up... And I definitely agreed with pen on the consonants I'm afraid. And on the poop analogy...
If you need a new game, just go ahead and make one - could there be a better place (even for just an idea)?.
OK, a touch over the top;
but I bet it got your attention!
Let my ice fingers close over your heart...
...let my drear mornings offer you no hope of sunshine to come. I shall not rest my snows nor my gloomy rains until torpor reigns in the Morniverse and nothing is but glumness, glumness everywhere. Hibernate, run from me, or try to endure me - you cannot prevent me nor the keening grey sorrow of the moods I offer.
[spirit] a popular phrase in my house... "oooo-kaaay..." (say it out loud, slightly like jim carrey *shudder*)

[chalky] thanks... I think. I do my best.
[Tuj] yes it did!

[The Spirit of Winter]
Bring on your frosts of spectre-grey, your frozen leaves and skies of dun! The weakening eye of day can never chill; for friendship doth not turn cold when that warm heart that beats deep within fires the furnace of goodwill. Thus shall this community seek the warmth of its homely hearth whilst the dregs of winter's spirit is humbled ...

[Chalky]OOOoooooOOOOh! Get you!
[spirit, chalky] take it OUTSIDE, both of you!
Furcational Adjournment
Is it time to grant it special status yet? I fancy an imposter's game, or summat...
I am outside.
Err.?
Hello!!!!
Hello to you too
I'm a bit worried. You're not the jasmine to which my wife took her secateurs a couple of days ago are you? If you are I shall have to have a cup of tea a Bex and a good lie down. Oh dear, oh dear . . .
Special (i.e. no) service
[Tuj] The SpecialStatus AddOn Pack (TM) has not yet been enabled, so, erm, no.
a little off topic (no change there, then) but thank God it's Friday. has everyone else had a shocking week or is it just me?
[nights] probably just you

Bah! I enjoyed that poetic exchange and would have happily crossed further swords with the 'spirit', teetering, as we were, on the brink of yet another 'Winter versus Summer Debate'.
So the follow-up disappointed somewhat, whilst bringing to mind Wot Dan Said in MCiOS a couple of weeks back [and I paraphrase] - anonymous posting by regulars is relatively harmless fun ... however, if the post is directed at a named person, perhaps it's fairer not to hide behind the cloak of anonymity?

*throws down gauntlet in the spirit of goodwill* :-)

[nights] it's not just you. blech.
[nights/flerdle] Definitly not just you two. Too.
Bob the dog! Good to see you :-)
[Chalks] Likewise! I've not been as apparent as usual over the last few months, but I am very much still here. New job going well – chickens still pecky – children still boingy.
I back Tuj for a game of impostors!
Do you want your gauntlet back?
Not dead but... dormant
rab] Well, assuming this Add On Pack (AOP) has resurrectional properties, I guess we can temporarily shuffle it below the line and go, with Bob the Dog's backing, for a game of imposters.
[Bob] welcome back!!
[rab] so what happened? I couldn't get in last night or all day today (that's trying via my home connection and up at university)
[everyone] glad it wasn't just me. last week of term, woo!
[nights] *Flattered* But I never left!
[bob] ah but doesn't flattery get me... no wait, get me somewhere... everywhere? sorry, it's rather late and I'm a bit tired and emotional at the moment... hello anyway.
racing frogs
Who wants to race frogs with me? I want a league but need to invite people! Try www.racingfrogs.org.....it's a level of maintenance just under playing Celebdaq. And probably designed for 14-year-olds. But shhh....
Food, food, food!
I think escargot is more my pace.
slurg on a lily pad
[ZK] My frog is in training, do you have a frog in each area.

On the weekend we went out and bought our Christmas tree. After I had put on the lights it was for the boys to hang the decorations on the tree. Francis, likes to let Owen know the benefits of being his big brother, as frequently as possible. Putting baubles on the tree he was able to put his extra height to advantage “…and another one up here, and this one can go near the top over here…”. Being the uneven handed dad I am I helped Owen put a couple at the same height to end that bit of squabbling. Which left Tom the toddler, who with a little bit of help was able to put the fairy on top and with the highest bauble. The finished tree looks wonderful.

I'd already done the racing frogs thing. They started making it more and more biased towards people buying the book and/or paying to enter the VIP room, by eg giving a "pike detector" to all those who'd paid. And it's... well, it's tedious, once the novelty wears off.
minibug
[rab] Might you be able to put a chevron on a tag in the limerick game?
[Projoy] Thanks for locating it... Netscape managed to render the page properly so I never saw the damage it caused on other browsers. Can you check it's properly fixed? Oh, and congratulations to Raak for discovering one of the bugs in the html checker. *fumbles in prize box* Here, have the 1995 copy of the Edinburgh and Lothians edition of "The Phone Book".
Yep, all fixed.
Frogs
Ooh, looks like very silly fun. Which pond are you in, ZK?
cute bear...
[rab] I like the bear...

[ZK] nice to see you again... obviously the Univesity of Birmingham doesn't give people enough work... :p

[ink] stop it, I'm missing my unstoppable family already at the moment, and you're not helping. Doesn't help that I'm so close to going home...
[Breadmaster] Windymore Lake, I think. Tend to race in Fergal's Cove.
[nights] Thankyou *blushes* I'd like to give the University credit for my constant absenteeism, in fact it was my drama group and its criminal rehearsal-cum-social schedule, and my boyfriend, wot's been keeping me occupied. The University kept me busy a bit though :) Semester over?
it's all getting a bit hectic...
Can you believe it - I had a dream last night in which - due to a horrible hairdressing mistake - my hair turned blonde. What a nightmare...
[pen] I think you'd look simply dashing as a blonde.

[ZK] teaching finishes tomorrow, thank God... although I'm going to be down here until december 23 working for *a certain well known UK based supermarket chain* because, let's face it, ALL students are poor and I need the overtime...
.. trying to attract rab's attention ..
hey rab - are you there?
[pen] No, don't go blonde - perhaps dark purple? That'll look good. [BtD] Gorgeous! [nights] hectic - just hectic. [rab] nice bear. [spirit of winter] Rum. [mince pie] *scoff*
Guess Who
Catching up with a thread from above... I'm up for an imposters game as well.
*burp*
oops - what I meant to say was...
Number of meals out in the past 18 hours - 2.
Number of meals out in the past 18 hours that the boss has paid for - 2
 Mince pies - 1 (same as at 9am, nothing to add here)
Should I be expecting a P45 or an invitation to join the Directors of the company?
possibly both.
An invitation to join the Directors of the company in *what*?
Attended
[Chalky] No, I've been sent to Coventry. (Literally).
Furcating
rab] Any news on El Furco's special status? I tried to shuffle it 'neath the line for a while to free up space for (probably) an imposters' game, but it dint work... Coventry nice?
Romance?
It's On. It's Off. It's On again, but not for another three weeks... Time to call Emergency Boyfriend #1. *sigh*
[pen] (((((((((((((hug)))))))))))))) it'll work out for the best - whatever the hell THAT might be. this is my first Christmas working in retail as opposed to catering. I'm certainly NOT loving it.
Grrr to cold weather
I'm ill and God I wish I weren't. I know it's only coldy/fluey stuff (at least I think that's all it is, might get the Doc to give me some sympathy in the morning, or at least to tell me to bugger off from wasting their time) but it's that kind of "I know it's going to get worse before it gets better" thing going on. Time to go home and retreat under the duvet in front of the telly I think. Good luck, pen.
Sent to Coventry
[rab] Coventry is not far from me if you fancy a pint..?
Man 'Flu
[rab] If it's bad... go to bed. Keep hot. Drink plenty of fluids and sleep. Don't drag yourself around if you feel shitty, you only spread it around anyway!
[In other news] Thanks goodness for emergency boyfriends...
Christmas Quiz

I've posted a Christmas Quiz if anyone's interested. It's also in Orange MC where there was another free game slot.
[heading in the blue box at the top]
Can you really post lonely hearts adverts?
lonely hearts are lonely for a reason...
[Knobbly] You can... although you risk attracting someone who thinks that Mornington Crescent is a fun thing to do. Is that really what you want?
[rab] fluids are the key, and not doing anything also helps, in my experience. [in other news] thanks to work I had trouble focusing by the end of my shift today *sob*
but what reason?
[Knobbly]Well, someone did before - last year, I think.
I do
[snorgle] 'twas Darren, if I recall.

I expect I'll be buggering off home shortly. The flu didn't come in the end; however, a (potentially nasty) ear infection did. The nice doctor gave me enough antibiotics to kill a horse and it seems to be clearing. Won't be until Christmas Eve till I get the full all-clear (and, with luck, internet access from home) so I'm not in the most joyful and triumphant mood just now. Heigh-ho.

*exits jingling bells*

Would ya believe it?!
Just found two cats abandoned at an empty council house. Called the RSPCA. They told me that they don't deal with abandoned cats! So much for their advertising campaign!
blimey
[UK] That's why the Cat Protection League exists. You should have someone locally who looks after them. Failing that, try the local paper for an appeal...
pussy cats
The Cats Protection League are usually more helpful - if you can get a local phone number, a real cat lover may come out and be willing to take them in. The RSPCA are usually hopeless, from what I've heard. At least with dogs, you can usually get the police to take them, I'm not sure about cats.
We are not amewsed
I went for them purely because we knew where the outgoing tenants went and I wanted them to go for a prosecution. Fortunately, one of my colleagues used to be an Animal Warden, and had the numbers of several RSPCA officers on her mobile. She called one of them and briefed him; he straight away got onto the outgoing tenants at their new address and got them to pick up the cats there and then in his prescence. Just goes to show it's not what you know, but who!
miow
Good job, UK!
More quizes
Cross posting
I take part in a couple of quizzes on-line and have created a testing ground group on MSN. If you like this one I will do another longer one next week. There are only two rules
1. only one answer per posting
2. no consecutive posting.
It's quiet..
in the morniverse! I think most people must be off doing Xmassy things.. I'm still in work, but will probably have a half day with boozing this pm.
who eat all the pies
Still working hard as ever at work, last day having a break till 4 January. The sausage rolls, coke and mince pies have arrived for lunch.
Ho hum...
Still working... will be tomorrow also... back in on 30th... bah!
ho ho ho
MMmm. chocolates, crisps, nibbles, wine..
Oh, and
not back in till January 10th. Yay! New Year in Dublin coming up..
Mincing
Mince pie in lieu of lunch, but a meeting at 1pm, so looks like I have to keep my work hat on for a couple more hours. After this, I'm not back in the office until 4th Jan :o)
bits to the grindstone
Still working normally today. Working from home (yeah, right) tomorrow, then off until 4th Jan including seeing the New Year in in Paris.
What holiday?
Working till 9pm today and tomorrow. Back at work on 27th every day till 3rd. I resisted the offer of overtime on Xmas day and Boxing day. Sob
Whee!
Mr BT's been and gone so I can now do this at home, kids. The engineer seemed very surprised that there was a line in situ already and he didn't actually need to do anything that couldn't have been done at the exchange. I've been trying to tell BT this for two months. Now, let's see if I can get that 75 quid back then, shall I?

Merry Christmas, One and All. I'll pop my head round the door from Edinburgh the next couple of days, before shooting down south to see the family. This would be Total Holiday if it weren't for the fact I should really apply for a permanent job that's come up and that has a deadline in January.

More Seasoning
Merry Christmas to all. The presents are wrapped. A mince pie and carrot have been left out, crossing my fingers for a seven o' clock lie in ;)
Over at Celebdaq, Celebrity Mornington Crescent itis a special congratulations to Christmas No1 DrQ.
It is also a sad farewell from CMC to long time Celebdaq player Chalky.
(Cross-posting) Merry Christmas, everyone!
Wishu
We wishu a merry Chrimulus. Pass the sherry, vicar.
...two front teeth
Seven was realistic but in the end we were woken up by Owen at just gone six. But it has been a good Christmas Day with lots of giving and receiving. Lord of the Rings extended box set, Monsterous Regiment, J J Cale - Anyway the Wind Blows - The Anthology, and best of all Brazil on DVD; No jumpers, no ties, no shirts for work. A very good Christmas indeed.
thank goodness that is over
Same as Inkspot - awoken at 6ish by excited eight year old. We had a non-traditional day, spending dinnertime at local Thai Boathouse restaurant (really good - highly recommended). We entertained guests in the evening with a buffet that no-one had any room for. Masses of pants and socks - surprisingly pleasant day!
wtf is apropos??
BEN OWNS
internet tourettes there? cuh. merry christmas everyone. we had a very sedate christmas which is most unlike us. back at university on the tenth, but home for a week then back at *a certain well-know UK based supermarket chain* on friday. and russian politics research in the meantime. oh, and make sure you watch tomb raider, which is on TV either tonight or tomorrow...
Yesterdays news
As a habit over Christmas I don't buy a newspaper and avoid the tv news, World War III could break out, I just would not know. The major concern is how many more days is this turkey going to last.

Arriving back from more drinks in time to see Mr Bean. I was knocked out of my revellry my the pictures from Sri Lanka on the ITV News. The incredible devastation of this Act of God, visited on so many thousands, has taken my own jollity of celebrating the birth of the Son of God seem hollow. Tonight I am restless, trying not to think.

projects underway
Wa-hey! For the first time in ages, and at the risk of appearing anti-social, I've had the chance to mooch about undisturbed at home, and in addition to a satisfyingly long walk in lovely winter sunshine this afternoon (the third such walk this holiday - I'm doing really well), I've got the printer set up ready to produce my masterpiece photos saved up from various trips this year. Cooooooool :o). I'm a bit frantic about going to a rather smart New Year party tomorrow night though - it necessitated the purchase of a velvet coat. Will report back with results. How many people, when pissed, will think that I'm Lisa Tarbuck? Guesses please!
Tarbyness
[pen] Cultivate a very slight Scouse accent and you'll be set.
being as noone else has said it, happy new year. hope 2005 is everything everyone wants it to be.
omigod... I didn't get recognised at all! The party was just too posh and too arty for anyone to have even watched ITV!
And a Happy New Year to you lot too! :o)
5
To all a happy new year!
0things
I'm pretty sure I typed "05" in my first Apropos... who stole it?
wasn't me.
[Tuj] I ain't not stolen nuffink ;o)
boo!
Catch me if you can!
mmmmmm...what...? noisey youngsters!
put the kettle on
The office is quiet, everyone seems to be in shock at being back at work. Thankfully very few emails.
Cute Teddy
Am I right in thinking that the little Teddy currently making an appearance top left of the Welcome (Menu) Page originally exhibited him~(or indeed her~)self on Rick's Beer powereed MC site of blessèd memory ? Or am I befuddled ? Happy New Year BTW.
I haven't had any email since about december 23. I love university vacations.
On a sidenote, happy birthday me...
HBTY
HBTY
HBDN
HBTY
[nights] Happy Biirthday! I suppose that makes you ancient, like the rest of us, now?
[pen] shut up shut up shut up. I'm only 20.
[nights] *splits ancient sides laughing and loses dentures* I'm forty this year, you young fool. I'm still not old!
[pen] and with an attitude like that, you never will be. more alcohol!!
XL-ent
[pen] No, at 40 you are still a youngster! (Well I am anyway).
[Boolbar] I know I'm still young - I've just installed broadband at home and only had to shout at one technical helpdesk person. I tried the old trick, calling again in the hope of talking to another techie, and it worked. This one knew what I was talking about and helped me install the right modem drivers. Only problem is, I have to sit on the bottom step of the stairs so that all the cables reach. The plan is to go wireless too, as both my flatmate and I want broadband on our laptops. At this rate, I'm going to have a house full of spaghetti.
Bloody hell it's fast :o)
Warning, team!
I'm migrating to a new ISP. This will mean new IP addresses, and so a longer downtime than the last change, because DNS will have to be changed. Should be 2 days or so, and not for a couple of weeks.
Yule never believe it.
Happy New Year to you all. I've had an, um, interesting Festive Period. Some of it is fairly standard seasonal stuff, such as most of the railway notwork being switched off for the duration of the holiday season, entailing a couple of hundred passengers all having to disembark at Leamington Spa and then proceed through a single set of double doors to watch buses hang around outside the station for a few minutes with doors resolutely closed before then departing, empty, into the sunset. The rest, however, is less so and I hope you excuse my indulgence of reporting it here, especially when we've been reminded of the true meaning of the word 'disaster' the last few days.

The plan was to have a quiet couple of days with the immediate family at my brother's house, taking a short trip down the road to have lunch with my Grandparents, Uncle and Aunt. To begin with, I was unsure as to whether I'd be able to go down south as my doctor had muttered something about the possibility of needing some mildly urgent surgery if the drugs she gave me didn't do what they were supposed to do. Luckily, the drugs did and I very nearly managed to avoid hospitals for the duration.

Unfortunately, Grandma was admitted a few days before Christmas, needing (I believe) a minor repair to her leg. So we went and chatted to her, and she seemed ok, if a little pissed off and bored. (This exacerbated by the fact that the women's magazines in the hospital shop were deemed by her 'pornographic'. She has a point.) I presented her with a gift of stationery that she had asked for, presumably so she could continue to compose her wacky free-form-jazz letters from time to time, which I said I enjoyed receiving (which much is true).

We then ambled across to her house where Grandad and the Aunt and Uncle were in situ for the second (of three) Christmas meals. This was all very jolly: Grandad's not entirely compos-mentis these days, but still tells a funny story or two. Unfortunately we had to break up the party atmosphere by taking him to a care home (he's not compos-mentis enough to be able to look after himself when Grandma's away). I can't say I felt entirely at ease with all the incumbents of the institution, but I suppose that's the way these places are. And I'm sure Grandad knows how to fend off the advances of dotty old ladies. Anyway, apart from some hoo-hah about medication and managing to kill a kamikaze deer that ran into the car on the way, this all passed off smoothly. We all, apart from my father (who was driving) slept in the car on the way home.

Understandably, Dad needs an early night. And what does he do, but trip on the stair leading into the bathroom and need taking to Casualty? He returns two hours later with his foot in plaster and hobbling about on crutches. To add excitement to the proceedings, my brother lives in a Victorian house where the loo is downstairs and the sleeping quarters up...

I learnt today that sadly, I shall not be receiving any more of Grandma's trademark letters on account of her passing away this morning. I'm told it happened as quickly and as peacefully as one can hope for once they realised the treatment she was on wasn't working and there was nothing more that could be done.

[rab] I'm sorry to hear about your grandmother.
[rab] likewise, my condolences on losing your grandma. my thoughts are with you at what I know is a really difficult time.
[rab] aww - hope she had a wonderful life. I really loved all three of my grandmothers [don't ask!] and they've all gone now and although they appear in my dreams on a regular basis, I miss them dreadfully.
[rab] Sorry to hear about that. I, too, have lost both my grandmothers but I only ever knew one of them. Still, one can't wind back the clock without being literal about it.
[rab] All sympathies extended. I lost a grandparent for the first time at the end of last summer, and it knocks you flat to think that someone who has had such an effect on your life and who you are has gone.
[rab] I hope Grandpa is going to be OK. Best wishes to you and your family after what sounds like a glum Christmas.
ISP move
Coo, new ISP is impressive. Migration is booked for the 13th, and they've already given me my IP addresses. This means that I can, in theory, set it all up to fail over fairly gracefully.
Crap, perhaps I should read the recent moves before posting. My condolences as well, Rab.
[rab] Might I add my commiseration to those already expressed? Regrettably most of us have to experience such events at some stage of our lives.
On a brighter note, your father must have received wonderful service at the hospital. If you had that problem here (at least in New South Wales) I'd lay odds on a minimum five hour turnaround and more likely eight. Some ten years or so ago I had a "bit of a turn" and was carted off to my local hospital by ambulance; the ambos weren't sure whether it was a heart thing or not. I lay in the A&E on a stretcher bed for five hours before a doctor saw me. This was a weekday afternoon, not the weekend. As best I can gather from the press the situation is much worse these days. So, congratulations to your health department and your local doctors.
I hope your grandfather is found decent long term care and that your father has a short recuperation.
Tx
Thanks, all. [Nik] Which ISP is that. I'm looking at getting adsl, but am a bit befuddled by the myriad of resellings of the same package.
runs in late and adds another condolence to the pile
I'm moving to Zen as they've long held a reputation similar to Nildram, but are currently a lot cheaper (only £1 less on the basic unmetered 512kbps package, but with free static IP blocks, where Nildram charge £3.50 for a single IP then £5.88 for a block of 8). The price difference wasn't enough to move, but Nildram's stability has been shocking for the last few months. It might be worth you checking out ADSLGuide - look at the 'fastest ISPs' chart, then poke around the forums for some of those ISPs.
Suspect packages
I don't have any flashy requirements (like fixed IP, or the need for decent upstream speeds or even email/webspace) so what I can't decide is whether a basic package whose only limitation that might affect me would be a bandwidth cap of something like 1 or 2 Gb a month, or if it's worth the extra few quid a month for an uncapped service. I don't do any internet gaming, download movies or whatever. The only big downloads I do are new software packages (I'm not doing anymore OS updates since the last one killed my laptop for a bit). I guess the question I ask is, how much bandwidth does a fairly normal amount of web browsing and the odd bit of ssh and scping actually consume?
Oh, and the other issue, of course, is that my only computer is a Mac, so a Mac-aware (if not outright friendly) ISP would be a bonus. In any case, I'll want to purchase an ethernet modem that's compatible with my wireless box.
General surfing doesn't use much - I tend not to transfer more than 1-2GB *total*, running the web and email servers on top, and I use BitTorrent every now and again. As for atypical system support, I've no idea who does what well, although I would expect companies like Zen and Nildram to be better than volume providers like AOL and Wannado.
Straightness
So, let's get this straight, even running a web server you use less than 2Gb a month?
From the Nildram access stats, "Total time on-line was 40 days 3:12:56s, during which time 2.206 GB were transferred." - this was the connection that went squiffy over christmas. It hasn't noticed me being dis/connected since then. I believe the 'transferred' figure includes uploads as well as downloads, but can't be sure. Most providers cap based on downloads and ignore uploads anyway. And let's face it, it's not a very busy web server (mostly text, which is all compressed for transfer).

On the other hand, er: 'You made 2 connections during October. Total time on-line was 17 days 23:28:28s, during which time 9.990 GB were transferred.' and 'You made 1 connections during September. Total time on-line was 38 days 4:43s, during which time 4.784 GB were transferred.' I was a very heavy BitTorrent user around that time, though.

broken link
[Nik] Tried Adsl Guide just the site I needed back in September ;^)
Limerickers
Please don't take offence because you know I love you all dearly and all that boll*cks - but The Limerick Game - gah!
Proper names should have Capital Letters
The first line should begin with a Capital letter
There's too much inconsequential nattering which breaks the flow
Finally - do we have to go to the far end of a fart every time something remotely 'welsh' is mentioned?
:-) :-) :-)

< mode=sarcastic > and yes, there really is a Chat Game on this server - you're reading it now < /s>

oo-er
Methinks I got out of bed the wrong side this morning.
[Chalky] Well, at least it only took you two minutes to notice...! :-)
[Incle Korks] I've had three cups of tea, so feel a bit better now. :-)
Chalky]
I agree, but I couldn't resist the limerick line.
also agreed, and I know I'm quite an offender. I promise to try and limerick things that make sense and scan, and use capital letters.
Pants
Grrr... slightly annoyed with my ex-funding body, who've quite reasonably asked for a report on what their money was spent on. Unfortunately, the covering letter of their request directed me to a webpage containing the wrong set of guidance notes. Although these were sufficiently similar to make sense in the context of the rest of the documentation, the differences are enough to require a further heavy editing session. I so wanted this finished, like, last year. Fucktards.
[rab] if it's any consolation, I'm currently putting together my section of a presentation on corruption under the Brezhnev regime in the soviet union. I had a text message while I was at work earlier from one of the group. "Hi (nights), hope you're getting on OK. I've been talking to (someone else), and apparently our presentation has to be quite analytical, so could you try and do that? thanks! see you tomorrow!".
So instead of being in bed at the moment, I'm sat in front of word trying to pull analysis from a rather dark place. gaaaah. (dies.)
The Incredibles
A turbulent day with Prince Harry still front page (good for the celebdaq shares), Busted are splitting unfortunately - McFly are sticking it out, Jackie Stallone must be shown the door of the BB House (John to stay). MC5 returns.
yes, hooray MC5 is back in my life. I was thinking that it was telewest being their usually competent selves.
It took until Sunday evening for MC5 to reappear on my interwebnet thingy ... but nice to see it again :o)
ooooh
yay - it's taken 'til around now for it to appear on my screen aswell. Which gives me the opportunity to 'pologise to Rosie in particular for the 'far end of a fart .... anything remotely welsh' remark which looked much more vehement on screen than was intended.
Cambrian flatus
(Chalky) Vehemence not detected. But you might have used a capital "W". :-)
Since youy mentioned the Welsh...
Just a suggestion (and I know it won't appeal to everyone) for a short game... The gauntlet has been thrown down in the latest Doctor Who Magazine, inviting readers to contribute to a sort of 'Welsh Film Club' (only using existing Doctor Who story titles as source material), to celebrate the filming of the new series in the valleys. Now, this is the sort of thing that I know we can do well. Anyone interested? The two examples provided were The Swansea Devils and Powys of the Daleks.
MCISP5
Is it just me, or is MC5 (and angrycake.com in general) responding more quickly with this new ISP? The time to move had apparently arrived a long time ago - everything about this new ISP is an improvement. And look, the old one has just charged me for the coming month! Gah!
Speedy
Yes, it does seem faster. The Furcation Game seems to appear almost immediately, whereas I'm sure it was always a bit sluggish before.
Welsh Film Club
(Uncle K) I think it's been done on ISIHAC. But anyway, there's Bridge over the River Wye.
WFC
I forgot. It stars Gwynedd Paltrow.
[Rosie] The drawback, though, is that you can't use general film / TV title as your source material - it's Doctor Who stories only.
Wales...
The Curse/Monster of Pen-y-fan
WFC
The Abominable Snowdon
[Nik/rab] For me, MC5 seems extremely slow. It's taking up to 30 seconds to respond each time.
Speedster
[Nik/rab] Not really a noticeable difference here, but maybe 5,000 miles of perspective flattens the diffs out.
Perhaps even...
The Harlech Invasion of Earth
[Darren] Given that the server is now routed via a different ISP, the problems you had last year, and the lack of serious complaint from anyone else, I'd still (unhelpfully, I admit) lay the fault at the door of your ISP, or some route near to you. Do you have problems with other sites?
[Nik] No, no problems with other sites, although MC5 seems to be running alright now. It probably is my ISP.
Storiâu Meddyg Pwy
(Uncle K) OK. So I'm sure you can translate the above.:-)
Mae bronnau ardderchog da hi.
And that.
erm...
[Rosie, Darren] I've tried a number of online translation services... with little luck. Can't work out your first word, Rosie, and I'm completely stumped on Darren's!
time and space
[UK] When is Dr Who scheduled for screening? I am looking forward to the series, especially on the special effects. Children's tv drama has a very low budget compared other areas. But if it is being made by the Drama dept the budget will be there but not the expertise to make good children's tv, afterall that should be the target audience not us Big People.
[Rosie] Aha - cracked yours, now. Obvious, really, in retrospect...
[Darren] Yours seems to come out as... He is being breasts excellent good she?!
[Inkspot] No formal announcement has been made as yet, but the smart money's on Easter Saturday. This is, of course, typical. I wait sixteen years - I mean, sixteen years - for a new series of Doctor Who, and I'm going to be out of the country when the first episode airs!
Designer baggage
I am, perhaps, the only person who ever actually reads the terms and conditions of low-cost air carriers when making a booking. Occasionally it's worth it. I note that one airline says:
We are not liable for the replacement cost of designer baggage which in itself is valuable and inappropriate to be carried by a low cost airline
Amusingly, designer baggage is defined as
baggage which bears a logo of a so-called designer manufacturer and is sold at inflated prices.
bagging
[rab]They sound kind of bitter, don't they?
Cambrian jugs
(Darren) Your example doesn't look grammatical to me and I wonder who put it together. Da means good, but ardderchog means wonderful, excellent etc and you wouldn't use both together. I suspect it should read mae bronnau ardderchog genni hi, literally, "there is (are) breasts wonderful with her". There's no verb "to have" in Welsh. The word genni is a conjugated part of gan, "with", and its ending means you can omit the pronoun it refers to, hi, in this case, and most people would, certainly in conversation.
I wonder what would happen if you checked in luggage in black bin liners - which are presumably appropriate for travel on a low cost carrier....
(rab, pen) It's a bit like a notice on the door of a pub, saying "No suits, ties or dresses - this is a rough house". An amazing admission.
[Rosie] I've shown it to you before. It comes from an old Welsh-English phrase book, the translation for which it claims is "She has excellent breasts." Quite why they thought that would be a useful phrase I'm not sure.
Wow, all this time and nobody posted a response to that.
Welcome back
Thanks, Nik. You can now go and get some sleep.
Sleeping at a time like this
As if!
hello Nik
jolly good work :-)
I think spoken Welsh is a truly beautiful sound
General hellos and thanks to Nik
Well, just before I disappear to bed, about time I posted my first hello on MC5. My nanny corporate firewall/websense blocks this site out as it's a "game" site, apparently. Although in which sense of the word, I'm not sure. (And nary a mention of the fact it contains breasts.)
Breasts? Where? Whose?
Bronnau fel bryniau Eryri
er . . . that's "breasts like the hills of Snowdonia". Probably a quotation. (Darren) I remember your phrase-book quote from MCpants days. It would probably be OK conversationally. My father's first language was Welsh and I picked up a lot from him, and from many other people, but I could hardly be called an authority. Part of what I know has been deliberately learnt but quite a lot is instinctive. My English speech is quite London.
Huzzah
Nice to see the old place back. Thanks for your hard work, Nik.

[Botherer] On the "List of Things To Do (Urgent)" is a Stealth Mode where all mentions of the word "game" are obscured. This might be useful in a workplace environment.

'G'morning!
Nice to see everyone here. Coffee, Nik?
Welsh speakers
One of the nuggets from ploughing through LoTR extended remix (and brilliant it was to) was the Elvish languages Sindarin is based on Welsh.
Good to see things back up again. Ace going Nik.
go nik, yaaaay, etc. nice job. mc5 is back in my life! *sighs contentedly*

I agree with whoever said that welsh is a lovely spoken language - my Dad doesn't. so for an april fools I tuned all of the stations on his car radio to BBCymru. they were still there a week later! and then he glued all of my post together. grr.
MC5 back/work
Nik] Thanks for all your work - it's great to see this back. Botherer] These things are utterly random. My work's firewall allows me onto MC5 and MCIOS, but not Orange - anyone have any thoughts on why this might be so? Oh and did you see that the guy who lost £9 million of his company's money gambling was betting online from work up to 30 times a day. He obviously didn't have to worry about NSFW.
[Botherer] I think it's classed as a game because of removed-yonks-ago metatags on (www.)angrycake.com. Most annoying.
[Irouleguy] The filter in place at my work used to block dunx.org, too. It stopped such foul practices some time ago now.
I need sleep bad.
[Irouleguy] My corporate firewall sound pretty much the same as yours.
Yay, MC5
:]] (big double chin grin. I might have to borrow someone else's face...)
[nik] go sleep! after all that you deserve to sleep for about three years.
Corporate Nanny Sitters
I can get onto both MCiOS and Orange from work, but not here. As I have (until recently) restricted my MCing to work (and what reason, pray, should I need to justify that stance?) this site has been sadly (for me, at any rate) (and I really should stop using so many parenthesis) neglected by me.

The idea of using a proxy server has crossed my mind more than once, but I wonder if that might be classified as a "sackable offence"?
Penalties
[Botherer] A 'sackable offence'? Is that where you have a barney with your partner and are then allowed to make up?
[Dujon] you were up at the same time as me last night! were you revising too?
Writes and Wrongs
[nights] Indeed. I've been revising my life over the last week or two in order to find out why I've such a wonderful wife. I still haven't found the solution.
Oh dear...
I've got a flashy new computer on my desk, and unusally for work machines it not only has a sound card, but also has realplayer installed which means I can now listen to the radio instead of working.
[rab] Realplayer isn't a very safe piece of software to use. You might want to look at alternatives.
Realplayer
Darren] Really - what's wrong with it?
[Darren] Centrally-managed, only supported configuration blah blah blah. Can't even change the window focus policy.
Realplayer
David Beckham is a Real player, or perhaps marketing feature. Don't go near it.
So the Danish Guy Dies...
[rab] Nonstandard winning move on this game, rab?
Happiness is a Cigar called...
The winning move is in the intro...
[dujon] sounds more interesting than european migratory theory. really. but at least it came up on the exam.

[rab] I can heartily recommend xfm - I get it on my spiffy digital radio and if you like rock it's very good indeed.
Get up and boogie
Monday morning << hugs >> to anyone passing. Hope you all had a great weekend, just waiting for the snow which seems to be avoiding this part of the world. If you are still on the post Christmas detox remember exercise can be done anywhere.
Morning all!
[Inkspot] You sound cheerful :o) We've got Sunshine here in NW London for the first time in DAYS... and mild too.
[nights] oooh... Xfm, s'bloody marvellous. I have it on in the car all the time.
news and weather
in local news, the gas men have been drilling outside my house since 13h yesterday, and show no signs of stopping now. I'm rather surprised I got any sleep. it's bright but without any direct sunlight in bath this morning, don't know how warm it is though, I haven't been outside yet. it's still a little too early to do anything except watch trisha.

[pen] I hate to admit it but xfm was a major motivator for me asking for the radio for christmas. that and talksport.
sunlight
[nights] Of course you won't get direct sunlight in your bath - it's got to get through the water. And if you stay in there too long you'll get all wrinkly, then you'll sprout fins & gills and turn into a fish. You will.
[DAB] I too had a DAB radio for Xmas - they're rather excellent aren't they. Trouble is good ole FM sounds crap by comparison so I want one for my car now !
DAB
I got a digital radio for xmas too, from my lovely sister and new brother-in-law. I'm a bit miffed at the way they're rolling out the features on this 'new technology' though - only FOUR programmable buttons when digital radio sells itself on the ability to provide hundreds of stations??? And worst of all... there's no jack plug to feed its output through a bigger stereo system, you're constrained to the small original speakers. Pffft. I think we've been bowled a lemon here, or whatever the metaphor is. I suppose a lemon is as good a mixer for metaphors as you can get, heheh
[pen] which radio did you get? I got a hitachi one, which has five presets (which is enough for me - one, xfm, talksport, four, five) and a headphone jack. I had the hardware to run a connection from the radio to the stereo's in socket, so I'm away, if only with a bit too much bass.

[bob] oh hee hee, not heard that before... *rolls eyes and stifles a yawn* :)
RUGBY PILG
News posted in Pilg Game in Orange MC.
Hamlet?
[rab] Doesn't appear to be Hamlet...
Certainly not
I repeat the previous announcment "The winning move is in the intro...". The last two words of it, I believe.
31/01/2005
Message: Yay! Big happy smiles for everyone!! I have plenty of excess pleasedness, so everyone be joyous!
joyousness
[Tuj] I was looking for an excuse! So what's the occasion?
Chocs away
[pen] Today is Chocolate Day. A reason to give into temptation.
oh what, I'm meant to have a reason?
I'm off the starting blocks way before anyone else on that one :o)
[pen] My Panasonic DAB has 10 presets at least (five buttons plus a +5 button - it may allow 15 actually, not sure.) You can store the same number for FM too. Having said that, as there aren't that many stations as yet I just turn the rotary knob till I get to the station I want coz. it simply cycles through stations rather than having to actually tune it in.
[nights] Sorry for the yawnyness - but it was your lack of capitalisation of the fair city of Bath that made me make my comment - but I now see that you appear to eschew capitalisation completely.
eschewing [nights]
... but not on the 'I' word :-)
[Blob] Then my sister and new brother-in-law have been cheapskates and bought me a cheapo one... I only have four... but it does have an 'up' button and a 'down' button to scroll through all the hundreds of stations is knows alphabetically, which is pretty handy, as Xfm isn't that far from BBC Radio 4, and I just go straight past 'Yoof Radio'. heheheh!
Help needed!
I've been asked to design a template email for the place where I work - you know the sort of thing - a header followed by contact details as a signature at the bottom. However, the only way I've found I can do this in Outlook is by saving all graphics into a signature. However, when I do this and click new message the email body appears above the logo. Does any one know how to put a header into an email properly?
[BtD] Abjure the heresy of embedded graphics in email! Tread the straight and narrow path of plain text only! If I received an email with a company logo in it, I'd never see the logo, because my mail program is set up to ignore graphics (and HTML).
Shoptalk, cross-posted too!
Does anyone know any up-and-coming children's illustrators who would like an interesting (paid!) project - creating projected backdrops for a show I'm doing later in the year. UK-based is ideal, but could be anywhere in the UK. Email for more or see here for more background.
Cleanage
[Projoy] Hope you don't mind, I corrected your email link.
pro(ject)joy
Projoy] I do know someone - I will speak to them and let you know.
[blob] no, I rarely use caps. it's just habit really, rest assured when writing properly (essay and such) caps are there in full glory. my aunt has complained that I never capitalise Bath in emails as well, so I'm just a serial offender.

[chalky] pardon?

[pen] down here, we get, and I quote, 'yarr radio' on digital. the amount of chris the ninja pirate gags is innumerable. new favourite station is talkSPORT as it doesn't distract me while revising. until I start shouting at the radio.
Email signatures
[BtD] Google for 'email etiquette' and 'internet etiquette' and perhaps also cite some of that info to the people making you do this project. I killfile on HTML as well - companies have lost my custom for sending me HTML in emails after I asked them not to. Costing them five to ten grand in lost business, at a rough guess. (And companies who start out by sending me HTML-in-email never get my custom in the first place.) The fact that most people are ignorant of correct email etiquette - because no modern PC-based mailer I have seen has ever thought to mention the issue - doesn't mean we all are. And I for one do use it as a filtering critereon for who I will do business with.
email
[rab] Much obliged.
Bet you can't do this!
Raise your right foot from the ground and make clockwise circles with it.
While doing that, draw anticlockwise circles in the air with your right hand.
[raak] how does that work then? I feel an utter fool.
[nights] No idea, it came up on a mailing list on biological control systems. For another surprise, try it with the right foot and left hand.
Whee!
I'm typing this wirelessly from my new broadband connection. I'm amazed that it all works...
All
Raak] Sorry, but I can do it... And the second one really easily (or was that the surprise!?)
pen] No real reason. My happy side came out yesterday, so I ate Twixes and listened to new CDs and thought along the lines of "spread the love". I am getting worryingly dependent on Twix bars now though.
anyone] Nice to see AVMA back on our screens.
[Tuj] Yes, that's the surprise. Opposite foot and hand don't interfere. I wonder if organists would find it easier, having learned to make their hands and feet work independently.
[Raak] Took a bit of effort but I was able to do it after a few tries. I found the trick was to set the hand going until you no longer thought about it, and then concentrated on the foot moving in the opposite direction.

As for organists, I don't think they'd find it much easier, because the movements they make with their feet aren't hugely complicated - as far as I know, no more complicated than those a driver makes in a car with the pedals.

hey I had an exam this morning, and it wasn't the evil colossus of doom I thought it would be. hey!
phew
[nights] s'often the way. You nearly done, exam-wise?
[btw - my comment above which you queried - I was referring to the word 'I' [as in first person] which you always capitalise, even if the rest of the sentence is lower case :-)]
Examination
It disturbs me that the assessment aspect of degree programmes is given so much prominence these days. I say this both from empathy with the students, and as one of the people who has to mark the bloody things.
But how can you evaluate without assessment?
The key words of the last statement were "so much prominence".
[bm] coursework - I have a 2000 word essay to turn in tomorrow which is MUCH better than an exam in that particular unit.

[chalky] one more this afternoon, but that I'm not freaking about too much. and I'm going on holiday saturday night for a week which is something to look forward to. and I cap the I because I was taught at a very young age always to do it. it doesn't excuse not doing it the rest of the time, but... um... er... shut up.

[rab] thanks. lots of people think that students are just stinking lamos, that we don't work, drink ourselves into oblivion every night of the week and then stay up until three the night before an exam/coursework deadline. of course, this is true some of the time, but by no means all. there was a bit in the student guardian (possibly one of my favourite things about university, a free digest of the week's news when I haven't had time to go anywhere near a paper that isn't Metro) about how students are determined to get value for money from degrees, and so are working their collective reproductive organs off trying to get firsts and distinctions and honours.

on an unrelated note, what do you teach/mark?
I'm a big fan of the notion of continuous assessment (i.e. such that the learner themself is able to input into evaluating the success of their endeavours). The worst forms of assessment IMO are those that have no continuity with the actual learning process, i.e. sit-down "blind" exams.
[projoy] hear, hear. I had the last exam today - despite my bus not showing up and me having to run across campus to be a few minutes late, it wasn't too bad. now all I have left is the 2000 word essay, which is why I shall be on campus from 08h tomorrow. ouch.
[nights] I do tutorials for mid-degree (i.e., round years 2&3, depending on the degree programme and education system) physics students. In practice this means that typically they've been in the game long enough to know what the deal is, and have got into a reasonable routine and habits regarding learning stuff, but still haven't quite reached the point where they'll voluntarily spend the whole day in the library/lab because they like it. (That kicks in around 3rd/4th year). Apparently I'm now a "senior tutor", which doesn't come with any extra money (in fact, I'm lucky it comes with any money at all) but does involve added responsibility. One of these is checking the exam papers, hand-in questions etc. all of which form part and parcel of the "assessment" that's going on. In practice, "checking" means "working through and making sure you can do it in 1/3-1/2 the time we expect the students to spend on it". Which is quite a lot of extra work, cos you have to get 100% as well...

[nights, again] To be honest, I don't think that what you say has ever been true, at least not for the last 15 years or so. I think there's a whole bunch of myths that get irresponsibly perpetuated by ex-students about how all they did was drink, get laid and engage in oh-so-hilarious traffic-furniture relocation exercises. Though now I think about it...

My gripe about assessment, apart from the obvious selfish one, is that for all the foreplay and aftermath that surrounds a formal exam is that, per hour of examination, I estimate you lose about one weeks' worth of time that could be used teaching people something. I'm still "out" on continuous assessment. I hated it as a student, but now I'm on "the other side" I've seen evidence that it can boost the performance of those in the bulk of the distribution. The lower end is always impossible to motivate, and the top end usually looks after itself but I do worry that if things become too prescribed they might get a bit bored. Personally, I advocate oral examinations since they give people the opportunity to reveal what they know, rather than what they don't. However, I realise most people feel quite intimidated by them so my feeling is that a mixture of sit-down, continuous assessment and scary viva would probably be the fairest system of all.

[rab] In other words, try every method of torture to see which one breaks them? :-)
Students
I was a student once and if all they do is get drunk and laid, I missed out on 50% of my education. I'm not telling you which 50%, but you can probably guess...
[botherer] never mind. get involved in sunday league football, that'll help redress the balance.

[rab] I'm second year, and I think I'm at the stage you describe your physics students as being at. I *like* my subject, it interests me (finally), but I wouldn't stay on campus all day working on it because I like it. although I am today, but that's because I'm grossly disorganised. oh well, wish me luck.
continuous
[rab] That's odd. When I was a student I hated discontinuous assesment (to the extent of picking my courses to avoid exams), but doing education work has led me to like it less, because it normally means continuous alertness to student needs (and a more constant flow of paperwork), which is harder than sitting back and regurgitating a load of stuff at students the same each year.
(That's not an argument against it, btw, just an observation)...
(er, and I meant "...doing education work has led me to like continuous assessment less...")

*goes back to bed*

um
er?
wha?
fuh? essay's done by the way. I think I'm going to explode with joy at the prospect of a week off...
*sandbags against the prospect of nights exploding with joy* i wish...
[nights] Well, assessed coursework is still assessment, I should think. In any case, personally I don't mind exams, although perhaps that's because I'm all right at them (my BA was 100% exams, and all the exams took place within a single fortnight at the end). I'm not convinced by the argument that assessment is an ineffecient use of time because it could be better used teaching students things: I'd say that reinforcing stuff you've already been taught and ensuring that you actually know it properly rather than have just a vague memory of it - in other words, revising - is just as valuable as learning it the first time around, if not more so.
Maximising retention
Best way to maximise the amount you can recall of what you have been taught is to review it after a day, a week, a month, a year, noting errors in your recall at each stage and concentrating on correcting them. I can vouch for the fact that it works, it's just that I for one was always far too lazy to do it properly.
sooooo.....what's happening?
updatey
[ZK] I am feeling delicate after a bloody good wedding yesterday. Recovering with the liberal application of tea and TV.
Hello ZK - good to see you again :-)
Hello pen - good to see you as always :-)
I'm spending a bit of time on here 'googling' for 3 Characters for the quiz tonight. It's my turn in the chair and the last round involves giving information in 3 stages about a person and the scores are 5,3 or 1 depending on when the correct answer is given. I'm trying to be really fair and not choose subjects that the team I belong to will be able to answer straight away and score maximum points. Oh - and I have to cook a roast chicken dinner for 5 for around 5pm.
...continuing
Yum. I chose E M Forster, Peter Gabriel and Otto von Bismarck and have aimed for some tantalising first clues ...
Two Bismarck trivia
He had a country house built, called Schloss Kroechlendorff (been there, got the sweatshirt), and he said, "God made Austrians by crossing Bavarians with humans."
[Raak] So how do we tell him apart from Peter Gabriel?
[Darren] Costumes. Gabriel will either be a giant flower or a fox, Bismarck will be a slightly camp military type.
Breaking the silence
[rab] Does being 'darlinged' give you a hangover the next morning? ;o)
Bismarck et al
[Chalky] I seem to remember [from my O-level history (over 25 years ago, eeek)] that OvB introduced Kulturkampf where he sought to reduce the power of the Catholic church in Germany, fairly successfully. He also tried to "kill socialism with kindness" - which was an interesting concept that mirrored Tsar Alexander's ill-fated attempts at liberalisation in Russia. Blimey it all comes flooding back ...
Bismarck was great. He seems to have been prejudiced against more or less everyone apart from upper-class Protestant Prussians - remember he referred to Disraeli as "that old Jew" in a tone of grudging respect! And he had a dodgy tache too.
Break like the wind
[pen] Is it supposed to?
Stations End
[rab] There seems to be a problem with Stations Revenge. There have been a few attempts at killing it so the unmasking can begin. Is it possible for you find out what the problem is and post the cure?
Why kill it?
Why not indeed...
again
[Bismarck trivia contributors - thanks] Yes - it was an enlightening bit of research, however, I still can't find out the proper name for his trademark pointy topped helmet. Or indeed what type of creature nested in his 'tache.
Whoops. The reason why the game won't end is quite amusing, if you know anything about Perl regexps. I'll put the fix in tonight - will need to check it works first, so am nervous about doing it in situ...
hasty revenge
[rab] in situ as opposed to ...?
[Inks] Further to my abrupt 'Why kill it?' - um.. it's still quite new - it's moving along at a steady pace - not every 'move' has been made yet - I just think there's some mileage in it compared to a couple of the other MC games.
and another thing ... ROSIE!!
sweet revenge
[Chalky] I was just curious, but I am more than happy to carry on playing, are you?
[Chalky] I think he means he's deeply worried someone might try winning the game while he's working on it - big bangs, flashing lights, tape spewing on floor, "MALFUNCTION - DOES NOT COMPUTE," sparks, demolition of The Institute, "the reactor's gonna blow," alarms, emergency lighting, "dive! dive! dive!" and so on.
This new Chorkee - is it Chalky without glasses? Or perhaps the bizarre offspring of Chalky and Uncle Korky? Or maybe a very small Cherokee?
[Inks] Yes indeed, which should tell you that it wasn't me trying to end the game .. or SO YOU THINK ...
[Darren] Gosh. Joking apart - is it possible for a computer/server to malfunction to such an extent that it really would explode or even spark and sizzle a bit?
[Chalky] If the power supply goes, then yes. If they're overloaded, they will often overheat, and sometimes (like mine did last year) go "pop" and stop working - that's if you're lucky. Some will actually explode when they're overloaded. Some will simply make a loud bang and smoulder. Others may suddenly start pumping out more voltage than your machine can take, which could cause other things to go bang. So if you do a bit of home modification, do take care that you don't overload your PSU.
Oh, and buying a home fire extinguisher suitable for electrical fires won't go amiss either.
Mine, all mine
Stations' Revenge should be winnable now... The downside is that you're no longer able to specify the winning move as a Perl regexp. Not that you were ever supposed to, of course.
non-news is good news
I have tidied my bedroom - the change is amazing! And I just cleaned out my mouse in the office - again, a huge improvement. My coffee this morning was good too. Just needed to share that with you...
How clean is your...
[pen]So just the belly buttoon fluff to tackle next. But where to do it. In private or at the office desk.
[Inkspot] No, do it in public. Sell tickets.
Public hair
Some people already show off their belly button fluff.
BBF
(Boolbar) Tried the link. Amazing. You can find anything on the net, it seems. This rather discreet oldie is perplexed that anyone would want to put their name to such a site. But I did have a belly laugh, you might say.
woo-hoo!!
Today was another First Date Day. And it was good. :o)
*catches up*
*presses wrong key*
I've been on a boat. man it was relaxing. anyway.

[pen] yaaaay!

[ZK] hello! how's lovely birmingham?

[simons mith] I've been told that technique by my director of studies before. problem is I'm fantastically lazy.

[Chalky] when I murdered my old computer (before the lovely laptop, before the faithful mac, there was the evil HP that had to be destroyed) I switched it from 240V to 115V.
*BAANG!!!*
*smoke*
*fuses trip out*
"(nights), WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON UP THERE?"
Ah, back again
...but what happened to Reverse 11?
Oh, and
Any ideas for games in the slots? I was trying to think of something new and exciting, though I'm sure something old and exciting would be as good if not better.
New game
Let's have another go at that
(Tuj) I found Clerihews Who (on MCiOS) quite agreeable. Not new and not exciting, I admit.
Rab and I had a funny online chat the other day, and I remember thinking 'This would make an interesting game' but I cannot, for the life of me, remember what it was. It might have been something along the lines of 'Best Excuse' or 'Customer Complaints'.
Uptime
Morning all. From the logs, the reason for the server disappearing is that 'the peer' (ie the ISP) is failing to respond to echo requests. The actual reason I don't know - the ISP not responding, the line dropping, etc. I've extended the interval between echo requests and increased the number of attempts, which may help. It was already set to immediately re-attempt connection up to 25 times, which it appears to not be doing, annoyingly, but I've changed that to 'unlimited' anyway.
Chattiness
[pen] Was it something to do with "Autoglass Mobile" and how they're not, but they know someone who has a mobile?
Uptime
Hm. The outage over the weekend may have been caused by a massive outage in BT's Manchester centre, which it seems is rather a large single point of failure.
is it bad that I didn't notice?

How about a nice game of "imaginary crescent"?
I was myself substantially surprised to find the machines inaccessible and then, upon 'fixing' it, not find a mention on MCiOS.
[Nik] I think it's known as 'polite outage' - much like a silent fart.
oh, but that we should go for a whole day without a fart joke!
(Chalky) I'm not convinced that silent farts are polite. If one is going to pollute, one should own up to it. Not that I would, mind.
[Rosie] Hmmm - see what you mean. I thought I'd added the words '.. when there's no-one around' [which might make more sense of the analogy]
... a bit later on
I've created a game :-)
politeness
Politeness requires that one should try not to make a noise when expelling anal gas. It similarly requires that one should not make a noise upon discovering expelled anal gases. Thus society continues in a mutual agreement to ignore the occurence.
sounds like a lot of heads being buried in sand to me...
Mmmh, what's cooking?
My father used to say "you're like a fart in a colander" to indicate uselessness. I don't know why that has just popped into my head or even why I'm bothering telling you lot, but there it is.
fart, fart, fart
I think it's about time we invented some sort of pants-catalytic-converter. We take pains to minimise every other bad smell our bodies produce, so it would be quite in keeping.
fartish
They have, you know.Click here for odour removal!
Gaseous eruptions
(st d) I think burping noisily is more offensive (in a polite setting) than farting. You can always do it silently and the "product" is inoffensive. No-one need know. But you can't get away with a fart, however discreetly expelled. (Projoy) Now, there's a challenge I can't ignore, as a chemist. The simplest answer would be an appropriately-shaped pellet of activated charcoal taped to the bum in a gastight manner. It would need to be kept dry and be easily removable for obvious reasons. It would eventually (a month or so) become "full", so to speak, but could easily be regenerated by heating in an oven, the only problem being that everything it had absorbed would be driven off. Extractor on full blast, I feel. snorgle has got in while I was writing this and the link says it's been done already. I bet it's activated charcoal, though. Just a question of how you fix it.
charcoal
[Rosie]Ah, maybe it would just be better to get some fresh activated charcoal. How do you activate charcoal anyway? Is there a big red button?
oho!
[snorgle] There's a satisfied customer quote on that site: "The feeling of security!" from one Julie Anderson, which I initially read as Julie Andrews. Now there's an image.
The whole problem with that product is the need to make the underwear airtight. Ewies. I did read once upon a time about tablets you can take (which I believe are also charcoal) to nullify smells. Any health risk?
ohdearohdearohdear
[snorgs] Thanks - it's a fantastic site with a wealth of snigger potential. 'Wear them for the one you love' springs to mind as a suitable phrase for examination, given that possibly the most irritating and in-yer-face flatulence occurs beneath the duvet ...
Ah...
Here's the page for aforementioned internal deodorant, although it's very coy about the fart business.
[Chalky] "In-yer-face" and "beneath the duvet" was probably more information than I strictly needed.
oo-er
[rab] sorry ... didn't realise you were looking in :-)
so, what is everybody doing this friday night? and no I'm not trying to change the subject, just a natural progression in the conversation...
I was supposed to be appearing as part of a work of art at Chelsea Art College for a final-year show. The artist invited me and some friends to be an installation, but it got cancelled due to lack of interest from other quarters. So I'm going to Wales, which I think is an appropriate response.
[PJ] An installation? I love weird art - what would you have been doing?
[nights] Celebrating a friend's birthday.
[nights] With a bit of luck, being seduced over dinner. Failing that, washing and ironing.
[pen] if all else fails, come to Bath and *I'll* seduce you...
[Chalky] It wasn't that weird, really, kind of lazy. She just wanted a couple of groups of people to stand around and get served canapés by waiters and chat. I assume the idea was that by putting me and my friends in a gallery we, and our social interactions would have been decontextualised so we became the subject of the viewer's critical analysis. Something like that.
Which, I have to say, is the oldest trick in the book, only slightly leavened by the fact that standing around eating canapés and chatting is exactly what looks natural in a gallery, so we'd have been decontextualised and contextualised all at once, which may be a bit self-defeating.
[Projoy] But it would make the gallery seem less empty than it might otherwise, especially if the show was in danger of being cancelled for lack of interest. The idea occurs to me of an art show in which it only transpires afterwards that everyone there was an exhibit, no-one actually came to see it.
hoary old chestnut
[Raak] But can it be considered Art if there is no audience?
Well, in that case the art would be its own audience, which saves a lot of mucking about, really.
[Projoy] stop it, you're making a customer-induced headache many times worse. stop it at once. yes I've been to work this evening, no it wasn't fun.
[Projoy] Hasn't someone done something *very* similar to that before? I seem to recall seeing it...
meta-friendatanexhibition
[Projoy] I presume you would have stood around discussing the visitors to the exhibit.
Ars gratia artis
[Darren] I should think about, say, thousands of people have done something very similar to it. [CdM] Indeed. What else to discuss? It might have been quite funny if we'd been submitted as a portfolio piece and allowed to give the examiner a mark out of ten.
art-lark
Has anyone done the "art" of having an empty room, getting hired people to stand around in this room looking at and discussing the pieces of art that aren't really there and then letting the public come in and be slightly bewildered?
Difficult to make plausible, I'd say, because most people move around galleries in silence or talking only in hushed tones. You'd somehow have to have your actors miming that there is art there, either by staring fixedly at particular points on the wall, or taking very obvious detours around things, craning neck etc.
Art for arseache
Probably simpler just to issue a press release saying you've done something where the art and the audience were the same thing. Again, saves a lot of mucking about.
.. as well as the cost of new clothes for the Emperor ..
[Projoy] "The art and the audience being the same thing" is reminiscent of John Cage's 4'33".
quizzonicals
[Chalks] Are you organising another pub quiz? We came across some interesting statistics today in 'Fleet News' - did you know...
- Royal Mail has 25,636 vans in the UK, plus mopeds and lorries
- Its annual mileage forcast is 590 million miles (18,437 miles per vehicle)
- and it operates 115,000 post boxes.
useful for that 'nearest million' tiebreaker question ;o)
it'd be interesting to see how much wandering around campus I do in an academic year. strap an odometer on me, let's do some SCIENCE!
fleeting glimpse
[penny penpenpen] Hey! When I was at EMAP , we 'launched' Fleet News - my mother worked on that publication for years and years :-) Good to hear some stats though, but doubt if I'll get the chance to use them this season, which ends in a few weeks for an Easter break.
Did I really say that word? Easter?
[nights] a pedometer might help :-)
[Chalky] EMAP, eh? I used to get a magazine they did... almost certainly a computer one (but I can't remember which), and definitely before all computer magazines turned crap.
EMAP
They do er, "Steam Railway". I sent them a load of B&W pics I took in the late fifties as they had expressed an interest. They forgot about them. Then they lost them. Then they found them, and finally they sent them back. This took nearly 3 years. Amazingly, "Steam Railway" is quite a good magazine, if you're into that sort of thing.
That's hardly surprising, considering the vast quantity of royalty-free photography they obviously have access to (a.k.a. to which they obviously have access). Sounds like a tenderfull of fun and I'd order it right away but I can't afford the fee until my subscription to "B&W Steam Photography" expires/evaporates/condenses.
Steam Railway
Rosie] Amazingly? I think "if you're into that sort of thing" means that the magazine would be quite good by definition - does it have much competition?
[Tuj] Oh, I wouldn't be so sure you'd automatically like a magazine just cos you're interested in the topic! I mean, I'm very much into retro games, but many of the magazines devoted to it are truly dreadful.
The Amazing Quality of Steam Railway
(Tuj) Amazing that they produce quite a good magazine despite their apparent administrative incompetence with my photos. There's no competition, strictly speaking, because they are only concerned with preserved railways and are by far the leading magazine for that. There are other steam loco magazines devoted to the real steam era (mainly 50's and 60's), when engines were a bit grubby but really worked hard instead of poncing about at 25 mph with two coaches, and all dolled up with polished brass and gleaming paintwork but emitting vast plumes of black smoke because they're overfired by nervous incompetents. You can't say anything, of course, because tremendous amounts of labour go into the appearance of the engines but to me they look unreal, a bit like brickies at a posh wedding (snobby bugger).
[chalky] bite me, I'm an arts student, I don't know any better

[darren] I'm glad someone else recognises the rubbishness of games magazines. I remember amiga power and CVG with a sort of warm glow.
[nights] A mate of mine does CDs/DVDs with scans of classic games mags, good quality too (they include all the covertapes and stuff too)... if that sort of thing would interest you! (He spends more time than you would care to contemplate on obtaining and scanning all these mags.) The first ten years of C&VG are on one of these DVDs.
[darren] wooooww... I was reading C&VG around 1997 - 1998 (around when tomb raider II came out, the article reviewing it started my tomb raider obsession) so if your friend has that period I'd be deeply interested...
[nights] Hehehe, C&VG started in November 1981, so the first ten years covers 1981-91, which I suspect may have been a little before your time! In the early days it was largely a type-in listings mag (initially aimed at those who had built computers from kits), and then shifted slightly into an 8-bit games review mag. From then on, it was on its way to being as it is now.
C&VG
So I guess I'm not the only one who used to wait with baited breath for the next issue of C&VG with its BASIC game listing and, more importantly, error corrections from the previous issue's game?
Realtime Pilgomation Service
Just in case anyone was unaware, there is a pilgrimage on 5th March. I for one am greatly looking forward to meeting the estimable Mr Dunx. Meanwhile, the Monday-night e-pilgs seem to have kicked orff again. The 'Easterners' (flerdle, Néa PaulWay) seem to be in by 8pm GMT (long before then, quite probably) with the 'Centralists' dribbling in a little later. If you've not been before, follow the 'Real Time...' link on MCiOS.
games with my floppy
I have become all nostalgic for the simpler games, shareware that small enough to fit on a floppy. One of the first we played in the office (during lunch) was Gods, a great little platform game. Just found it to download - wonderful.
early early
[rab] Waaaaaah, want to pilgy-pilg! I don't know when I'll be returning to those shores, unfortunately - probably not for a long time.
The e-pilgs have been much fun. Yes, I'm usually there earlier -- by 7pm GMT -- and a few others dribble in shortly after that... for me it's that time simply because it's already 11pm by then here and I usually can't stay for more than an hour or two.
chatting away
I'll try to make it but will be very late after I've finished being quizmaster in another chat room :(
Gods
[Inkspot] Although "Gods" is still a little too recent to be retro for me, the "Into the Wonderful" theme tune from it is actually one I do love playing on piano. Perhaps if enough people come to the Rugby pilg who are remember such games, I could play you a few classic gaming tunes on Projoy's piano.
Shhh!
[Inkspot] Gods wasn't shareware, it was good old comes-in-a-huge-box-for-£30 commercial software with a demo for magazine coverdisks. I hope it's been "abandoned" (or you got said demo) and you've not been using a works machine/connection to infringe copyright. Or that The Powers That Be don't find out, or care.
[Darren] Can you also perform on your piano the theme tune from the other Bitmap Brothers side-scrolling platformer, Magic Pockets?
I hope I'm remembering my publishers correctly here, and haven't just committed a terrible faux pas.
Nope, GODS is definitely not abandonware. It can in fact still be purchased, albeit peculiarly only for the Archimedes (someone ported their games to the Archimedes?! Good Lord!). And hurrah, faux pas avoided! Double points for me! But negative points for starting sentences with 'and' and 'but' in quick succession.
Magic Pockets, music by Richard Joseph (although somewhat originating with Betty Boo). I've met him a few times (and come to think of it I have a photo of him with me on my site). As for playing it, that voice is a bit too high even for me!
Correction: I have a photo I took of Richard on my site. Warren Pilkington has a photo of me with him.
chatties
[chat] unfortunately, the innernet has been particularly unreliable this last five days or so, which has been highly frustrating -- so don't be surprised if I don't make it tonight, or am late, or if I disappear prematurely.
I should be able to epilg from about 19h30 GMT as I'm home... hey, that's NOW! *heads for epilg*
Going back a bit earlier.
[C&VG] I had one of my games printed in C&VG back in 1985-ish. "Oggs' Eggs" Lovingly written in Atari BASIC. I got paid! Yey!
[Boolbar] Found it. Issue 44 (June 1985), pages 56 & 61, with ads for Atari, Dam Busters and Lode Runner in between! Actually says here you wrote it in 1982... took a while to get it published then!
[Darren] Sure did, by the time they published that I was into writing games written in machine code. The Atari is in the attic, I wonder if it still works . . .
Did you get any of your machine code efforts published anywhere? (I mean in boxed form, rather than magazines, of course.)
[Darren] No, they were purely for my own fun, since few games written for the old Atari 400/800 were any good ("Star Raiders" and "Mercenary" aside). I aimed for crude graphics, crude sound but very playable and increasing difficulty the longer you played.
There you have hit the nail on the head, as regards why I still play retro games. They tended to be a lot more playable. You had less in the way of graphics (generally speaking) and sound (also generally), but that made the programmers try all the harder to make games that were fun. I find many modern games extremely tiresome. I had my first computer in 1983 (an Acorn Electron), and that's the one where I first learnt to program. As time went on I moved through the C64, Amiga and now PC (not counting consoles). These days I have got myself a nice little retro collection, having added various other machines to the set (ranging from Atari 2600 to Spectrum to... well, Dreamcast!). I'm sure a part of it is simply nostalgia for childhood, but when it comes down to it, I really do find a lot of older games more entertaining than newer ones - even if the older games are not ones I grew up playing.
(OK, Dreamcast is too recent to be retro, but it is obsolete, which is half the battle!)
Thanks - you've just provided some inspiration for the 'You know when...' game.
'Leccy
[Darren] Cor, another one! That's you, Kevan, me and this guy (note: lots of swearing. Lots. It's also a games-related website, for those with bonus-annoying work nannies).
[Nik] Yeah, nothing like playing on the Elk. I still have a few. When I was at CGEUK I had the opportunity to fiddle with a heavily souped-up Turbo Electron (a photo is in my Yahoo album), which boasted a 256K RAM-drive among other things.
[Darren] I like your MC sims!
aaaargh
[Boolbar] You obviously don't frequent the Orange MC chatgame.
*switches off*
[Chalky] I just did - I haven't been there for 6 months by the looks of it.
*Goes back to watching the pretty snowflakes*
Elktastic
Add me to the pile of people who couldn't afford a BBC micro were proud owners of an Acorn Electron.
Acorn computers
I've had an Acorn computer of one sort or another for over 20 years. The latest, if you can call it that, is the A7000. I use it for keeping my weather records, creating my own little games and general mathematical recreations. The BBC Basic is so easy to use I can write programs blindfold, pissed and hanging from the doorway (like the young lady from Norway). (Darren) I used to write machine code stuff on the Spectrum. What a bunch of nerds we all are. :-)
knerds
Me too! Well, sort of. I began my computer career with a Commodore Vic 20. If memory serves me right it had 3.5K of memory and I thought that was somewhat extravagant. How times change. From there I progressed through a C64 an Amstrad 128 (colour!) and then into IBM compatibles - originally the 640K monsters and then the 286 processors and onwards.
I have never coded in machine code but had an absolute ball (and much satisfaction) using the various breeds of BASIC. I feel that I must have had more time on my hands than I now do. I do remember 'inventing' a tree-sort programme in BASIC - it took me ages to get it working properly - only to find that I'd simply reinvented the wheel. Still, it worked well and put the 'bubble' sorts of the day to shame. Whilst I've taken the trouble to learn COBOL - because of where I was working at the time - I really have not progressed much further. I had (long forgotten) a smattering of 'C' and a couple of its later incarnations but was most assuredly not adept at either. All the later stuff seems too verbose to me. Bring back the days of tight code - someone else may not be able to read it but that's their problem!
You know, I can still remember some of the POKE and PEEK codes for the Commodore 64. 53280 was to change the border colour, 53281 the screen colour. I felt just like a real programmer!And when I worked out how to do multicoloured sprites (in *four* colours) - well.

Looks like an appropriate place to remind us of Hey Hey, 16k too...
[preceding few posts] uhm... er... yeah... hey look it's snowing!
[nights] Not 'round our bloody way, it isn't! It's all melted, and it's now raining!
Steam-age computers
(Breadmaster, Darren) Yep, happy days. I always thought POKE a bit rude and if you POKEd the wrong number in it all crashed. (nights, Uncle K) Up here on the Downs at Warlingham, aka Little Siberia, the houses are groaning under the weight of a good inch of snow. We were told to expect 10-15 centimetres (whatever they are) and more on hills (i.e. here). As someone who used to be in the business all I can say is that the forecast was hysterical.
[uncle k] so where are you then?
[nights] I'm currently slaving away in my office in Barking.
[Rosie] BBC BASIC didn't have POKE, per se. It had other indirection operators, $, ? and !, which allowed memory to used rather like variables. For example, ?A=B would be the same as POKE A,B; and A=?B would be the same as A=PEEK(B). ! allowed 32-bit access rather than the 8-bit access provided by ?, and $ allowed string peeks/pokes. Furthermore, you could combine each operator with an offset, so A?2=B?4 would be equivalent to POKE A+2,PEEK(B+4) in other versions of BASIC. Although ? was arguably less clear than PEEK, ! and $ made memory access a lot clearer if you were dealing with larger data than single bytes. It also let you do some tricks which seemed mystifying to the uninitiated, such as CALL !-4 which would have the same effect as pressing the BREAK key!
[Rosie] Actually, since you still have an Acorn machine, you know all that already.
[nights] Luddite!    ;-)
[Rosie] I saw in my local paper today a couple of paragraphs indicating that Russian meteoroligsts will be fined should they get 'it' wrong. That'd spark up your whatsits!
(Darren) Certainly do. But I used to POKE my Spectrum unmercifully. :-)
Russian meteorologists
(Dujon) The perfect way of ensuring useless weather forecasts. Russian weathermen will now say there is a risk of everything but everyone will soon learn to ignore them, thus being caught out when there actually is a risk. So it's an absolutely brilliant idea. I think we may have more than a trace of it here. Have a look at my earlier posting.
We had some sort of snow early in the week, which created the lightest of dustings which remained on the ground for almost an entire night. Then it all went wet and unsnowlike. Imagine my surprise to wake up this morning and see *real* snow actually lying on the ground all over the place. It's melting now, though. Somehow, such brief snow is worse than no snow at all, as it's so tantalising.
[dujon] pardon me?

we had a midnight screening of rocky horror last night for rag week. myself and my friend hid in the proj box and drank while the rest of the audience yelled 'ARSEHOLE!', 'SLUT!' and danced in the aisles and also on stage. and there's a couple of people I genuinely never want to see in a basque again. so I'm sleep deprivated but in a rather good mood. and it's FRIDAY!
But does Friday really make much difference when you're a student...?
Arghhh
Nights - are you from bath uni cos we did that too? and if you are I am very confused............
Oh and breadmaster, friday nights make all the difference when your a student, well to some students anyway.............. Am I supposed to make up a cool name for myself? Do you only write on here at certain times? Where do you actually play this game? I think i would enjoy it if only I could figure out what the hell is going on I guess I am just not cool. Or un-cool. Or mis-cool. Or dis-cool. Or under-cool. Upset.
Past your bath time.
[Amy G] Welcome to the boards, the games are played here at MCiOS and Orange. It may all seem strange at first but this will pass with time; so I've been told.
[Amy G] Hi Amy G. I hope you weren't too put off by the intense moral discussions taking place on Orange at the moment! We're not normally that serious, unless someone splits an infinitive or something.
You don't have to have a cool name. A stupid one will also do, as I demonstrate. You can write here at any time too.
Cool names
(Amy G) Any name will do, provided it isn't 50 letters long. Silly names are welcome. Mine is, for instance, because I'm a bloke, and not a very young one either. There are no rules as such, but just conventions. Never post under someone else's name - that's very bad form. Write any time you like and welcome to the asylum.
Nom de plume &c
Inkers] I've been frequenting the boards for nearly 4 years and it hasn't got any less strange. I like to think I've been able to contribute to that effect.
Oh, and my name's origins involve York, Australians, boredom and archaeology.
It's very rare that I'm ever accused of being 'cool'... Welcome aboard. I'm not Scottish.
Names
(rab) Of course you're not. You're a one-time liberal Tory Home Secretary. (Tuj) That's an awful lot for 3 letters. I'm baffled. My own monicker is a nickname given to me in about 1967 and has a connection with my real name.
[amy g] wow, yeah I am. weirdness. did you go thursday?

[breadmaster] probably not because I work all day saturday, but you knew that already.
[amy g] Hello dear. Don't mind them, just come in and say what you think. My name is far posher than my rude comments might warrant, but I'm trying not to be too coarse today as you're new.
Just had a rather weird transition - from a National Trust working holiday leader training weekend for conservation projects, talking big ideas, supervision, conservation and green stuff, eating white bread and cheap pink ham because that's all there is to eat in a National Trust basecamp in deepest Sussex, complete silence and darkness at night and midnight walks under a full moon over frozen fields back from the pub to sleeping bags in a dormitory (is that how you spell it? looks weird) with 12 others and one socket between us, no radio or TV... straight home and out again after a quick wash and brush up to a house-warming in the upper end of the Bucks commuter belt where no-one had ANYTHING to talk about but house prices (all above £400K) and football, which is apparently now the new gentelman's pursuit. I'm a bit baffled right now. No doubt work will set me straight in the morning.
Dormitories
I have a afriend who is normally quite sensible and normal, but occasionally goes a bit edgy. In this state he often says in a slightly Teutonic way "I like dormitories". So yeh, that is how you spell it.
[Amy G] Welcome. I got back Sunday night from a Blake's 7/Babylon 5 convention in Hinckley, so that may give an idea of how silly I am.
[Amy G]Wotcha! As you can no doubt imagine, this is not my real name!
Get-away-from-it-all
[pen] You can't beat a spot of isolation. Helps you get a sense of perspective, I find. Although, unless you're a hermit, it's best if the isolation is of finite duration.
Staying in
For all those playing Celebdaq, the towers have issued a statement. From Friday the holding period for full divi payout is being reduced to three days (midnight Monday to midnight Thursday). This will be a great, treadwater over the weekend then take a leisurely decision on Monday afternoon. Hopefully story on the week should be evident by then.
[Raak] if I had known you were going to be away I would have recorded the rugby for you ;)
Silliness
(Raak) I thought Blake's 7 was great. Always watched it. But that was then; this is now. Nice to know people are all a bit odd. Quotation from someone-or-other: "Normal people are those you don't know". Carry on. :-)
is cleaning the oven with no gloves on going to make my hands hurt for a while, or will it make the skin fall off totally? I washed them hard afterwards...
"washed" them, eh?
It depends what you washed them with.
[nights] And depends what you cleaned the oven with too.. They'll probably drop off, whatever you used. And why was a student cleaning the oven??? That's incredible.Are you feeling OK?
All sorts
[Amy G] Hello! Yes, we are all a bit eccentric, but sometimes we can be mildly amusing, so stick around.
[pen] Sounds like... fun...
[Raak] Hinkley? ;-)
I think...
...we scared Amy G of. Oops.
I must be dismebowelled!
of/ off/ eff!
On second thoughts, I'm not surprised in the slightest.
[Tuj] well ... apart from you and nights, we're all a bit fogeyish :-)
Oooh, me aching limbs...
[Chalky] Fogeyish? Me? You? Never! Now pass around the Werthers Original and let's have a nice cup of tea and a sit down.
St David's Day
Good morining all. Only scored one in quiz last night and today is looking drab and cold outside. Milk no sugar please.
[Botherer] Actually, just outside Hinckley, at a hotel off Junction 1 of the M69. And speaking of motorway junctions, there was a short film shown at the con, called "Blake's Junction 7", in which Blake's 7 are imagined as a family stopping at a service station at 3 in the morning. Filmed on location at the Newport Pagnell service area.
sounding off
F*cking spam f*lters. We have a new one at work, and not only has it taken out an email from my sister in the US, telling me whether or not the birthday present for my neice arrived, but also a motor industry press bulletin - probably talking about 'sexy cars' - and a load of message failure reports which I need to be able to measure the delivery of press releases I send out. Not only that, but I've found that when I email our IT guy to ask for the messages back, he doesn't f*cking respond. I've sent him a very terse email already this morning, and my ire is still up. I need coffee and cigarettes.
On the plus side, I can now tell you that my other sister (the one who married in October) is expecting a baby, and a chat friend in the US has sent me some over-the-counter wart treatment as a gift.
[pen] last time I turned the oven on it smoked out the kitchen and set the smoke detectors off. and figuring no-one else would do it, I did it. used mr muscle, and washed hands wih cidal afterwards. the skin is still there this morning so it can't be too bad.

I only just got up. I could do with coffee and cigarettes myself...
handy
[nights] Mr Muscle? You wimp. I thought you were talking about caustic soda or sugar soap or something really evil and stinky. If that's all it was, your hands won't drop off, but it might exacerbate that limpness in your wrists.
My oven is "self-cleaning". It doesn't.
[Boolbar] Maybe it just has low standards of cleanliness.
Strangeness
What curious names people have these days. I just received an email from a chap called "Believer F. Management"...
[pen] oh thanks VERY much. just because I don't want to spend the whole evening cleaning... that's it. I'm going to go out tonight, I'll be in a bad mood, have a crap time and it'll be YOUR fault... you keep your implications to yourSELF!
[Raak] Ah, The Hanover International. Used to drive past it regularly. Preferred the Ullesthorpe Court replete with Golf Course me sen. You are excused... ;-)
Fogeyism
Chalky] I do my best to act fogeyish, 'specially if I look at the !York archives and see how awful my posts were back when I first ventured out into this place I know call home. (lies)
Hangover International Hotel
well that's what I read....
[st d] Maybe that's why they changed the name to the Hinckley Island.
is it bad that I needed red bull to get through that lecture? it's one of my OPTIONS for God's sake. I CHOSE to study it. wtf?

on the other hand I was playing tomb raider II till about 01h30... actually that's probably it.
(nights) What lecture?
Eeeeooo, Red Bull. Is there anything natural in that at all - even water? I'd never touch the stuff but my girlfriend is still capable of using it as a mixer and downing several, which I cannot believe is healthy at all. You're storing up trouble for the future, young nights!
[Breadmaster] Red Bull contains taurine, which was originally extracted from cattle. (Hence the name. The myth that it came from bulls' testicles is just that - a myth. The substance is found all over the body.) These days it's synthetic.
Red Bull?!
Ugh! To me, it has always looked like, and smelled like, urine. I am, naturally, not about to pass any comment on taste...
Red Bull has its uses - ie when you're at the far end of the M6, and home and bed are at the southern end of the M40. But yes, it does taste revolting, and I can almost feel it dissolving my teeth as I drink it
One more question please
What did I do to deserve this? I took a crash course in using QuarkExpress today, and now I have to prepare a page layout with pictures and edit, for the first time. I only had four hours sleep last night (don't ask) and about five hours the night before (again, don't ask but the answer isn't the same as if you'd asked the first time when I told you not to). Plus, fifty per cent of my team is leaving on a three-week holiday to NZ tonight, and I can't leave the office before he finishes off what he has to do and hands over the rest to me... it's already 5.15pm and I am pooped. :o(
For what it's worth, I think Red Bull tastes quite nice.
Red bullocks
Red Bull does nothing for me really. On the other hand Lucozade... (or at a pinch Dr Pepper)
Lucozade is good stuff, and I love Dr Pepper too. I had some tonight.
Darren
Alarmingly phrased, that (edges away)
the lecture was french drama. something I normally enjoy. it tasted bizarre but I no longer had the overwhelming urge to put my head down on my notes and sleeeeeep. there was nothing in it natural, but it did the trick. so all's well.
pen
Can I suggest you stop carping on about it here and get on with it...? ;-)
[Botherer]You can. But I wasn't actually doing anything at work, other than waiting for the NZ-bound colleague to finish what he was doing; I thought I was too knackered to start anything of my own. Anyway, I had a good night's sleep, and it all looks completely different this morning - we've had a good covering of snow here in Sunny Hertfordshire, for one thing. I think this is the first time in six years I've worn a hat to go to work.
Was I carping? Sorry. I usually prefer to whinge.
pan
Sounded more like a gripe to me :)
I'd have said it was more like bellyaching.
Cuss-tard
[pen] Have a slice of this delicious pudding that can't stop complaining. It's an Apple Grumble.
pun wars hoorah!
moaning
(pen) Stop going on about your petty work problems. I'll tell you what a problem is. Looking after a partially-demented and hallucinating, partially incontinent, fairly deaf, arthritis-ridden 93-yr-old mother 24/7. I can barely go out these days and have had to give up my Big Band as I cannot leave her for 3 hours in the evening. There is much else, involving doctors, geriatricians, social services, powers of attorney and fuck knows what. I am totally knackered. You've no idea how infuriating the extremely elderly can be or how unnerving it is to have to deal with someone who is having frightening hallucinations. The only peace is the wee small hours, which fortunately agrees with my night-owl nature. It can't go on and she is due for Respite Care, at least I hope. Respite for me, that is. A fortnight's freedom. But then . . .
Jeez Rosie - I didn't realise it'd got so serious.
It's bad enough having your social/recreational freedom restricted, never mind being confined to a space with a loved one who is slowly and inexorably becoming an unpredictable stranger - no wonder you're resentful.
Losing the Big Band thing must be particularly painful. I take it you can't get any cover for those 3 hours? I'm thinking - and this isn't as flippant as it sounds - wouldn't it be wonderful if there existed some sort of benign medication which, when administered, placed the patient in stasis. You could undertake all your filial obligations and when you need a break, pop her a pill, do your thing, and return with no harm done.
[Chalky] I fear that as soon as someone invented such a pill, some people would spend 23 hours a day in stasis, especially in old folks' homes.
(Chalky) The stasis pill would be a wonderful idea, but there isn't one. The nearest one can get is if she's in bed, and she sleeps well but needs to get up rather a lot for wee-wees. This is not always a reliable process (say no more). Sometimes she goes to bed early and I feel I can pop out for a swift 2 pints and a natter but I don't feel I ought to put pressure on her to do so. She has quite enough brain left to hate her situation and the problems she knows she causes me and the hallucinations are largely but not completely suppressed with medication. I have to be an accurate pill-adminstrator, 8 a day, 3 different types. (Projoy) You're probably right. It would be the easy way out and I'd feel guilty using it.
Ageing
(Projoy) Just seen your contribution to "You know you're getting old . . ." So true. :-)
[Rosie] Your story inspired my comment. :)
[Rosie] I've stopped. And I'm in total (but useless, admittedly) admiration.
(pen) Well, don't stop entirely, but you know what I mean. :-) You may not think me so admirable if you could hear my muttered comments to myself as I go round the house.
[Rosie] In the general scheme of things, it's admirable. And cursing as you go around the house isn't bad, in the general scheme of things. I lost a parent to a long illness a couple of years ago, although my mother did most of the caring and my father was lucid and tolerant throughout. What we said to him, what we said to ourselves in private and what we said to each each other were different things.
(pen) Thanks. In some ways these things bring out the best in people and as few of us are saints we then have to let go a bit. This doesn't matter as long as we don't hurt anyone. The case of your father sounds very like my father's death, too. He was 83 and quite all there but his body had given up. Between me and my mother his impending death was taboo and in many ways still is, even after 25 yrs. He was a lot older than my Mum and born in 1895, would you believe.
No postings since Sunday night. I hope my sorry tale hasn't frightened people off. Come on, this is the banter page. :-)
In Other News...
[Rosie] I said something... then accidentally lost it, and was so frustrated, I didn't try to write it again - although it was along the lines of being amazed at two generations spanning three centuries - that's some feat. :o)
We're out of biscuits in the office :o(
we're out of biscuits at home. lucky I'm not easting them for lent. in other news the work has kicked in again after roughly a month off so I'll be looking for some sympathy later this evening when it doesn't make sense anymore.
crumbs
* looks at stash of biscuits in his drawer - closes drawer - keeps quiet *
[nights] You'll get sympathy from me when I enjoy a month off, my lad! I don't recall that happening even when I was a student.
when I say off, I mean "without any major course-credit-carrying-assigments". I actually only had a week off university, some of which I spent on holiday with my parents.
[penelope, re: generations] My mother's father was born in 1870. She is 58 now.
(Projoy) So your grandfather was 76 when she was born. I'm impressed, not to say incredulous.
incredulity
[Rosie] I know that sounds unlikely, but remember that at the time of conception he was probably only 75. On a different note, can I add one more note of both sympathy and admiration for what you are doing. I freely admit to relief at having been spared that ordeal with either of my parents: my mother died fairly rapidly (and as these things go, relatively painlessly) of cancer, and my father of a heart attack just as it was starting to seem that he was going to need full-time care. I witnessed the alternative -- at a distance -- with both of my grandmothers, and it is obviously very difficult for everyone involved.
[Rosie] When I was at school, there was a boy there whose father was in his 80s. (I know it sounds like one of those silly school rumours, but you'll have to trust me that this one was true. Apparently the dad had plenty of money and the rest is history.)
[Rosie] Yep, your maths is right. It will perhaps ease your incredulity if I note that my grandmother was much younger than my grandfather (to the tune of just under fifty years, b. 1917).
Projoy] I bet he couldn't believe his luck!
[UK] By all accounts, he felt totally entitled to it. :)
(Projoy) Yes, I had to assume that. He must have been some fellow. (CdM) Thanks. One adjusts to each new little deterioration, up to a point.
Re: [15]
My firm has only recently rolled out a Spam Filter to stop us getting dozens of Spam messages inviting us to make money in our spare time, enlarge our organs, take temporary custody of large sums of money etc. These seem to come from people with very strange names. I had one today from "Alphonso T. Integers". I'm sure there's a game in this somewhere, waiting for someone with more imagination than me to institute it.
Alphonso T. Integers
[Kim] I think you've just given us the title of the game. Perhaps we could entertain each other by posting samples of real or imaginary spam messages?
Improbable names
Kim, Raak] I've been being deluged with these for over a year now on an e-mail address I can no longer use. It was quite amusing to start with, seeing the name on the message had been generated from two randomly-picked words from a dictionary, separated with a randon initial. However, the sheer weight of these meant I've had to look elsewhere for e-mail!
it's funny that I receive virtually no spam (well I get messages that people have addressed to the entire department instead of one group), which is either good fortune or the university having a good spam filter.
I was saddened to hear this morning that, as mentioned somewhere else in the Morniverse, that Dave Allen died on Thursday night . Whilst he hadn't performed for some time I have many fond memories of his shows. A great standup (well, sit down) comedian and coffee/beer/wine spluttering skit maker. I haven't had the pleasure of seeing any replays of his shows for far too long; I wonder whether they have dated. I've oft wondered whether his constant haranguing of the R.C. church has anything to do with his shows no longer being shown in this country. I think though that our local A.B.C. had the rights to his shows (though I am open to correction) so I suspect, until they finally shed the ultra-P.C. image which, in my opinion, they seem to exhibit, it will not happen.
Dave Allen
That's what happens when you give up smoking. I'm sure his attitude to the RC Church was that of the subversive insider. It was great stuff, but seems ages ago now.
dave allen
According to many obits I have seen it seems that the non-briadcasting of his old material was due to his having evidently signed off the right contracts and retaining control over them and not wishing them to be broadcast.
[st d] That's what I'd heard too. There has been a bit of speculation that we'll see reruns of his material now he's passed on.
spam-spammity-spam-spam
Hurrah! I have just had permish to dump the spam-and-profanity filter which was applied to our server a couple of weeks ago. So far, it has removed automotive industry press releases, blocked the delivery of commissioned photographs, wiped out a message from my sister in the US telling me that the birthday present to my neice had arrived safely, and finally, today, blocked access to a website belonging to the main Essex newspaper. F*cking filters!
obligatory newbie rubbish
What is the tag I should be using to mark a line through the page when I cap off a limerick or the like?
[Juxtapose] You want <hr>. No closing tag is required.
HTML tags
[Juxtapose] You'll find pretty much all you need at http://mustela.phyast.pitt.edu/basichtml.html. This site was raised by Dr Q+ to assist all us ingorami.
Whoops. Simulposted.
Mater
Mum went into an old people's home last Friday. I could just about cope but she'd become incontinent in the last week and that was just too much. I've visited her each day and she's now chatting to all the other old dears. This stimulus is good because at home she was bored and this tended to bring on the hallucinations. It's only supposed to be for a week, but she's now in the system and if they say she has to go back home (they won't, I'm pretty certain) I'll create an absolute stink. (Maybe not the best way of putting it). Thanks to all those who expressed sympathy. My freedom is more than tinged with sadness as I look around the house and see the various things associated with her. But time is a great healer. Just as well. :-)
Thanks, D+D. [rosie] It's tough to know what the "right" thing is in a situation like that, even when the "best" thing is clear. I've moved in with my grandmother to help her take care of my granddad who is in a similar situation. It's hard when someone you've known and loved all your life doesn't know who you are anymore. I'm glad your situation has resolved itself harmoniously.
[Rosie] Gosh - things have moved along very swiftly. I hope you've got lots of chums [apart from us lot :-)] to chat to.
[Juxtapose] Sounds as though you, too, are an unsung hero.
Blimey. My mum's just bought herself a sporty new car, so I'm hoping it'll be a while before I have to contemplate what Rosie & Juxtapose are faced with. I think Rosie's mum might improvement in her new home - peer contact and a social atmosphere make a huge difference. My grandmother was always more talkative if she was in hospital on a ward full of similar ladies than when she was at home alone.
Can I go back to my normal whinging now? I think I need a holiday - or at least a break from work.
[rosie] I never know the appropriate thing to say, so I'll just send you a hug in the hope that it helps somehow.
(((((((((hug)))))))))
mum's car
Last October was my mum's 70th so all the family gathered at the Old Bell in Malmsbury together with some of her friends from the past. Since then her short term memory has deteriorated. She is no longer able to cook a meal without help, my sisters who live nearby have coped really well as my father will visit with my mother for temporary respite and before the tension between them explodes into another argument. When having a telephone call last night I have to say "You saw Sian today ..." rather than ask, calls are long and repetitive. In January the DVLA wrote that she was no longer to drive and has been diagnosed with Alzheimers. Living nearly 100 miles away I play only a very minor role in the care of my mother, Rosie and Juxtapose I admire you for your care and dedication.
Let's hope that they don't succeed in abolishing NHS prescriptions for those drugs that alleviate Alzheimer's. They only help in around 40% of cases, but when they do they sound remarkably helpful.
The elderly
(Inkspot) That's really desperate and dispiriting, and at only 70. I can hardly imagine it and don't know what to say, it being so different from my own case. (pen) You're right, it's just what she needs, physically and psychologically. Mum drove a Mini up to the age of 88, BTW. (juxtapose) If you're a newbie I ought to tell you I'm a bloke. :-) You will cope more easily with two of you because you can talk about it together in another room. (Chalky) Yes, some good close friends, many acquaintances, good neighbours, the jazz mob, the Big Band players, you lot, and a very supportive family albeit at the end of long telephone wires (Hartlepool, Colwyn Bay, Chepstow, North London). (nights) Ooh, that was nice! er . . you are of the female persuasion, aren't you??
[Rosie] nights is a man.
[Darren] Yes, but he's young and he has long hair. It's hard to tell these days. *ducks*
[pen] why duck? I'd never hit you.
[rosie] yeah, I'm a man, man, but I'm very open with my hugs. hope that hasn't totally put you off me forever...
[nights] The first time I read that, I thought you said "legs" instead of "hugs." Just for a moment, it painted a very different picture.
[darren] would you STOP thinking about me? (grins)
Hugs
(nights) You may put a manly arm round my shoulder. Dunno why I thought you were female. Incidentally, Hugs, Hug and Huggies have been used as nicknames for me in the past. Indians in callcentres say "Mr Yewjis" or "Mr Hewgs", bless 'em. No prizes, and therefore no points, for guessing my surname.
Hugs 'R Us
I too fell into the trap of imagining nights to be female. Unfortunatley it was in the chat room - and the rotten sod didn't disillusion me! You will never, ever, be forgiven for that, nights.    ;-)
[Rosie] I always figured your surname as being Canadian for a lumberjack.
Hugs 'n stuff
I understand that The Morniverse term for blokeish clasping is 'mabulating'.

CdM] Glad you're available for a round of AVMA :-) Are you mainly Singapore-based nowadays?
Btw - haven't spotted INJ for a while. Hope he and his flag can make it to Rugby again.

Limericks
sorry - me again.
Might it be a neat solution to keep the Furcation Game active by playing the Bifurcating Limericks in there? The current one will be quite a challenge and as I tackled the last one, I shan't be touching it!
The regular Lim Game can then return to quickies.
[Chalky] Yes -- I am currently based in Singapore, though making occasional side trips to France, the US, and Thailand. We are probably going to be in France all summer though; any chance you will be visiting French relatives? :-)
I haven't been in touch with INJ for a few weeks myself, although I had noted his absence in the morniverse. Often it has to do with his work situation at any given time.
[Limericks] Yes, I hadn't actually meant to open a bifurcating can of worms like that. It was just that I posted an opening line that sounded very British, and so thought I should add the US equivalent and see what happened...
Server
I started doing some bits and pieces on the server last night - for instance, I think I've fixed a couple of the 'networking broken after a reboot' faults and I installed an IMAP email server. Things may slow down occasionally (compiling/installing) and I'll need to reboot at times to test shutdown/startup procedures. I'll be doing upgrades to installed software as I go as well. I've no idea when, it certainly won't be tonight and probably not this week, but I thought I'd better warn in advance.
[chalky] good idea, but don't think I'll be trying my hand as I suck at complicated things.
[dujon] sorry.. (grins evilly) no, really I am sorry. I'm just naturally mean. ask my housemates.
Worm can-opener
Chalky] Will do

Rosie] Commiserations - I (very briefly) had to care for my mother before she went into hospital, and I supported a friend through a much more protracted caring. One of my conclusions was that you feel guilty whatever you do, simply because you keep feeling that there's more you should be doing. Another (and this is much easier to say than to do) is that you need to look after yourself to be able to look after her. Good luck.
(Irouleguy) She's in the Care Home now, which is by far the best thing for her as she has mental stimulation as well as expert care. There is a slight tinge of guilt that I've "got rid of her" but everybody says that's absurd. Also, when she was at home I always felt a bit selfish about going out and eventually stopped almost entirely. Now, of course, it's a question of getting used to an empty house and re-motivating myself.
[Rosie] It's your job to get the most out of life. You have devoted a hell of a lot of time and care to your mother, and the guilt you feel is testament to the fact that you still have the desire to do that. Now you have organised the best possible care for her, you must have some fun - otherwise, what was the point? The care situation as it was proved to be bringing both of you down in the end, and the new situation is supposed to benefit both of you. Now you just have to do your bit, allow yourself some fun, and not feel guilty about it.
[CdM] yes - we plan to be in SE Paris end of July for my brother's birthday celebrations :-)

[nights] never mind, poppet.

[Irouleguy] I take it you're doing the honours? Good for you - I think mine was easier. Anyway, based on your 2 words, I've taken the liberty of starting a new quickfire limerick.

[Chalky] Hmmmmmm. Maybe we can arrange le premier pilg francais.
[CdM] yes! And if Les Premices isn't feasible - Sunday 17 July, location - a glorious garden in Sucy-en-Brie. I'll email nearer the time :-)
[Chalky] Could you send me a mail at andrewdotjohn@ayadotyaledotedu so that we can take this offline? (That is, unless there are other possible francopilgers.) Thanks.
(pen) Yes, I suppose I'm still in Care Mode even when I go and visit her and I hope it doesn't get up the noses of the excellent Care Staff. Probably not; they're very understanding. They don't see many men in there, which helps. :-) When I adjust to the change of circumstances I think things will be as good as they have ever been, but you can't just switch instantaneously - there's a degree of sadness. Thanks for your thoughts. :-)
[Rosie] Of course - it's not an instant switch. But just remember, it is allowed. Your mother will happy to hear your tales of jolly jazz-making when you visit, won't she?
Self-bifurcating limericks
The multiple-ended limerick has now been reposted in the bifurcation game, and awaits 32 final lines - which we could attempt collectively, rather than leaving them all to one person.
rab] Thank you, thank you for the HTML debugger - I'd never have done it without that.

Rosie] You'll probably stay in care mode for quite some time, but the simple fact that you're not doing it on your own will make it easier for both of you.
Furcatin'
I fear that the popularity of spiralling limericks could be the last nail for the Furcation Game as previously known.
still around
Nice to know I've been missed. The situation which led to it (no internet access at work, extra pressure at home sorting out my father's estate) is now easing, so I should soon be back up to speed.
[Chalky] I expect to be in Rugby - probably on the same basis as last year - Sat pm only.
[CdM] If there is a Franco-Pilg I may come and pitch a tent somewhere in your estate.
most of the last several posts
Please sir (or madame): What's pilg?
[Knobbly] Pilg=short for pilgrimage. Pilgs are basically those times we all get together and meet up.
Pilging
[INJ] Splendid. In both instances :-)
Tert
Ignore
Tert - complete
[Nik] Beefy's seems to be about 10 minutes slow, which is reflected in the posting times displayed here...
... beefy's clock, I mean ...
tilting at windmills
It is fairly clear that goatherds have a systemic aversion to vagarious wanderings. Is this the result of genetic manipulation, I wonder? Perhaps a change of underwear is called for at this late stage
Grand Slam
A change of underwear is always recommended after one has worn them for the usual daily sequence back-to-front/inside out etc. Goats on the other hand are far as I understand leave a relatively sport free life compared to those of say sheep. However many of us feel goats need to be talked to and engaged in conversation. Goats can be receptive and should you meet any today on your wanderings try breaking the ice with by discussing with them Wales wining the Grand Slam, I tried this with the flock last night and stayed with me till morning.
Skew
[rab] Tut, you'd think a modern PC would keep time a little better than that, wouldn't you? Perhaps I should (sigh) include a timeserver daemon to keep it uptodate.
Notice
The server hosting my personal email and website seems to have dropped off the internet. We're investigating, but this could mean that if you've tried to email me in the last day or so, the mail might either take a day or two to get through, or get lost completely.
not for the first time I'm totally lost.
p*ssing into the wind
[rab] .. so all those naughty emails I've sent to you in the last couple of days have vaporised into the etherspherythingyplace? Oh bugger.
nights] never mind poppet
the goats win
I solved the problem this morning by wandering with them to Mornington Crescent. It was a bit crowded on the platform, however.
Being prepared
*starts spreadsheet programme to print out location of every clock in the household, including name rank and serial number, and containing instructions on how to change each come Saturday evening* For me this involves cranking them all forward by 23 hours. Yuk. I might, just might, have one with a plus/minus one hour switch (and if I do, I bet I didn't use it last time).
Just thinking about that.
I have six clocks in my workshop. Three normal clocks (one small one on each bench and one wall clock) plus one on a digital thermometer and two on telephones.
The house has seven normal clocks, two video cassette recorders (the DVD player doesn't have one), three clock radio units, one microwave oven, one on a digital thermometer and an inderminate number of watches - probably only three. I bet I've forgotten one or two as those are from memory.
The computers are set to automatically adjust.
That's over twenty adjustments to make. Eek!
Housemate update
Looks like Jerry paid a visit to my kitchen to do a poo last night, so I think I'll be down the shop to buy some bait. F!*k the humane approach...
clocks
[Dujon] Move to the tropics :-)
[Dujon] Stop measuring so much time. Why not use this weekend to get rid of half of them, and see if you actually notice a difference?
[rab] He will have eaten a load of your food AND done a poo. Make sure you keep all your food sealed away until you know you've got rid of him & all his friends. And wash everything down really well too.
This and that
Mum's place in the Residential Home has been confirmed - and it's brilliant. And . . . it won't cost a thing, courtesy of Surrey County Council, except they do take her pension and give her a bit of it back as pocket money. I'm typing this also courtesy of Surrey county Council, i.e. in Warlingham Library, because my computer is f*****. A young in-law decided that Uncle T should upgrade to Windows XP, and he's in the IT business. It doesn't work. Can't get on the Net or use the scanner or printer. Apparently you should put Windows XP in a clean hard drive and then transfer what you need from the old drive. A mate is going to do this and it's going to cost, partly because he too is in the business. Should be done in about a week.
Meece
[pen] Nearly all the food was in mouse-proof cupboards as it happens (i.e., high up off the floor, and with no obvious holes therein). There is a slightly worrying set of holes for the pipework in the cupboard under the sink. I can't cover these up easily, so I expect to find evidence of mouse in there... I intend to wash all the surfaces (and pans) before doing any cooking. As it happens, I think it would be difficult for a mouse to scale the units onto the worktops - but I wouldn't put anything past the bastards. Time to go home and see if the bait has been taken...
The bait's still there - and no poos as far as I can tell. But I think it's a bit soon to expect much yet. I imagine Jerry realises that this is not going to do him much good, and is probably biding his time until he's really hungry. As an aside, I'm quite surprised to discover such a huge range of products devoted to capture and extermination of mice. This I find reassuring and worrying by equal measure. On the one hand, it indicates the problem's a common one (and I feel less hideously unclean now). At the same time, though, it also suggests that few of these treatments actually work. I'll keep you informed.

As a further aside, I'm also amused that even the most painful-looking traps have pictures of cute fluffy little creatures with big eyes and nice round ears on them. It's rather like putting a cartoon pig on the outside of a packet of bacon.

[chalky] could you stop calling me poppet? you're reminding me too much of my mum, who has a habit of calling me poppet, despite me clearing six foot.

Work has destroyed my brain to such an extent that last night I dreamt about trying to print a cheque and products sounding like the animal they were designed for, and I keep on thinking I hear the tannoy go 'ping pong', and I freeze in anticipation of "Staff call, 'Nights', contact 257, 'Nights', 257, thank you", implying I've forgotten what time it is, I'm still in the canteen having a smoke and I was meant to be on the shop floor about ten minutes ago. argh, eh?
It's time
[penelope] Which was sort of my point. Why do I need so many bloddy clocks? Perhaps I'll adjust some of them with a hammer.
Nights dream
nights] Dreaming you're at work... yeeesh horrible horrible. Is it not enough for employers to steal your waking hours?
disclosure
[nights] I AM your mum. I'm just pretending I live in Salisbury.
Settling down
[Rosie] I hypothesise that you won't see this for a bit but I'll post it anyway.
Fantastic news, it really is. The pension/pocket money is a regular thing here but it might be wise to keep a bit of an eye on what she gets. There has been a number of 'shonky' operators of such establishments in this country. Still, if it's a council operated facility then, perhaps, you might not need to worry too much. I mention the last because my mother-in-law, who had a stroke, was confined to a so called 'nursing home' within the precincts of her local hospital. It was truly dreadful. Not the staff - at least not overall - but the facilites and the surroundings. I have the feeling that the only time she could get outside for a bit of sun and fresh air was when my wife or her sister (or me for that matter) visited.
[Chalky] Eee 'eck tha dun arf wurry me times.
I've been dreaming about seventeenth-century Russian religious history recently. Now that's grim.
C17 Russian religion
[Bm] Yes, I keep seeing icons too.
I dreamed about being on a narrowboat last night.
Last week I dreamt I married Ruby Wax. I can't explain that.
[Duj] worry not, my friend :-)
[chalky] in that case what are we having thursday night as I'm going to be home about 23h thanks to the M5. home for easter. wooooooo!!!!!!!
half term
Home for half term - don't forget the black bag in the corner full of dirty washing.
Mouse trap
[rab] The only way I find works well is those wooden snappy traps baited with bread and cheddar cheese rolled into a small ball. Poison may work but although I've found it eaten, I've never found a dead mouse to confirm.
Alternatively try this.
I'm told that mice are surprisingly savvy...
[Boolbar] Pshaw. What are they talking about? Intelligent children like me did play it properly. About four times. We even knew the rule that if (A) triggered (O) directly, the mouse automatically escaped!
Kindness
[rab] If you haven't already disposed of the beastie. Do you wish to kill the thing or catch it alive and release it somewhere other than your kitchen rather than zap the poor wee thing and have it die a lingering death with a broken back or neck? If so, I have used a wonderful device which works rather well. It's a commercial trap, quite cheap, which is formed from a square section of tubing, one end sealed the other with a spring loaded door. It is also bent. Bait (in my case a dob of peanut butter!) down the sealed end. Place on floor/shelf/whatever with door latched open beneath the device. Mouse wanders in and heads for the other end. Weight of mouse combined with gravity causes the 'far end' to rock back to level - it's the bent end which is elevated. Front end then rises - obviously - and allows the door to snap shut. Viola! one contained mouse. All that remains is to release the thing in an enviroment of your choosing.
killing by kindness
[Dujon] I have a long story (a shaggy mouse story, if you will) about my experience with those traps. Maybe I will come back and post it sometime...
update on the expedition home - the M5 was hideous, so we thought we'd try a different route, got hideously lost in Gloucestershire and ended up at home about when I thought. but at least I'm here, eating food prepared by someone else and spending good working time playing silly forum-based games. and I can do my laundry, thank you very much. I'm one of a very rare breed of students that know what a washing machine is and how it works.
Viola!
Dujon] Viola! I shall forever use that for "voila!" now. Was it intentional?
[Tuj] Bloody pedants! No, my friend, I just thought it was prettier. ;-(
[CdM] Your heading Killing by kindness suggests that I don't want to know. On the other hand, why not? It's been a bit quiet in here over the weekend.
Dujon] No offence intended. It is prettier!
:-)
[Dujon] I have caught a couple of mice with those see-saw traps, but you stop being nice when they start chewing through your wiring.
strings attached
[Tuj, Duj] Indeed, but there seems to be less scope for jokes about voila players ...
meece
Just make sure that you set them free a good distance from your home, as they tend to make their way back.. at least a couple of miles, in a nice park or field somewhere..
foolishness
I'm sorry I have to say this, because you're all obviously well-meaning - but don't you think that it's cruel to set a HOUSE MOUSE free in a park or field? House mice and field mice are two different animals. One lives in a field or park, the other lives in houses and barns. If you have House Mice, and don't want a re-infestation then just kill it quickly and mercifully, but fer gawd's sake don't set it free in a place that is so different to it's natural habitat... that's ridiculous. *mutters* Animal rights my arse
And don't forget those fluffy little creatures with the big eyes and the cute ears that come into your kitchen and scamper around playfully also PISS and SHIT everywhere. Yum.
[pen] Think of it as kindness to whatever non-house-infesting predator gets them.
Living in comfort
[penelope] Not a natural environment? Are you telling me that the 'house' mouse was suddenly created when the first house was built? I must do some research to fill up the gap in my education. Whilst, at this time, I agree that there are various varieties of the mouse I also believe they are wild creatures and can survive quite happily outside my home. As exhibit number one (well, there is only one): As a teenager I used to breed mice - the cute little white ones - and flog 'em off to provide me with pocket money. Regrettably the wonderful cage which I had custom built to house them and which was designed to fit nicely on my windowsill (my mother refused to let me keep them inside) developed a malfunction and finished eight feet down on the back lawn with the doors sprung. Within weeks mice found in the back garden were piebald.
[Inkspot] On the assumption that Celebdaq is effectively dead and on the understanding that you cannot kill it until each participant has effectively run the ropes to the quay I have removed myself from the crew. Thanks for your time and effort over its lifetime.
[Dujon] OK, then my advice (and always had been, truth to tell) is to slam them all on the head with a garden spade. Smash their little brains out. I was trying to phrase it delicately for the sake of the animal lovers who might read this, but phooey... sod 'em.
[penelope] That's a waste of life. What Dujon should do is shove them in the microwave for about 10 minutes each for a quick snack.
worry
[pen]I don't do that myself, but if someone is going to the trouble of a live-capture trap, I figured they wouldn't then want to send the mouse to its maker. Personally, I get my Jack Russell to worry them. Very quick death, although he growls when I don't let him chew on the body. Mouse guts everywhere? No thanks. AND I'm a vegetarian. But my dog isn't.
yeucch!
Look you lot - all this killing stuff is making me feel a bit queasy. In fact it's completely put me off the crispy fried mice ready meal I was about to microwave for my lunch ..
*groan*
daqing out
[Dujon]Sorry to see you leave the Daq you have been a good player taking your fair share of turns at No1. It could not have been easy being distant from the tabloid tittle tattle that runs Celebdaq. In the next few weeks I will update everything and tidy up some loose ends.
The daq continues to limp on despite the beeb dealing it a couple of knockout blows in the last few months. While it soldiers on, I play out of the MSN group CelebdaqBasements under the guise of Cleddau (Not the Ant Hill Mob)in a couple of Ultimate leagues run by Version 1.0.

No mice, but crispy fried woodlice in a thin coat of batter slightly salted.

would you lot be quiet, I'll be afraid to eat from our local takeaway. that is NOT an invitation for a lot of 'do you know what's in takeaway' posts by the way.

good news, I got through work today without nearly bursting into tears.
[penelope] Yes, I figured you were taking the **ss. I couldn't resist the temptation to drag out my piebald mice story which, by the way, is quite true. I am averse to killing anything except mosquitoes but must admit that the last mouse caught - it was making a mess of my wife's potting mix of all things in the garden shed - became an uncooked meal for one of my son's pythons.
[nights] Remind me to tell you about the cockroaches in the microwave episode sometime. Mwhaaaaa. *cue music from the Twilight Zone*
pythons
duj] that reminds me of a little girl who goes in to a pet shop and says, with a bit of a speech defect "hewwo, do you have any likkle bunny wabbits?" - the shopkeeper is charmed and plays up to the little girl saying "Wess we goo. Would woo like an ikkle bunny wabbit wiv bwig fwuffy ears and an ikkle cotton twail nice and fwuffy?" and teh girl looks at him and says "I don't weally sink my Boa Constwictor gives a sthit"
Trivia
[Inkspot] I removed myself feeling that you might wish to clear the decks. If you are going to continue then by all means add me back in. The details are Dujon2774 (User ID: 3256726). Don't break your back, though. There're only a few of us left.
s'not the same without ...
... Rosie :-(
Da-daaaaaaaaaa!
That was remarkably prescient, Chalks, seeing as I only got the 'puter back about 6 this evening and, miraculously, managed to set up Broadband with the minimum of oaths. Great to be back. Now, this Rugby thing; are there any places left? What does it cost? How long does it last? Should I change my underwear? Anything else I should know?
Hello
Good to see you back, Rosie. I was a'feared the enforced break may have made you reasise that M.C. wastes too much valuable time (like all time isn't valuable, it's a bit like saying 'I spent good money on that').
Eh?
I was just looking at the BBC main news site and came across this somewhat worrying juxtapostion of links.
* Pope John Paul II clings to life
* Mother-in-law's killer jailed
What's going on in the Vatican these days?
Rugby
[Rosie] Yes, you should change your underwear. Other things you should know: Russia has an area of approximately 17,075,200 kmsq.
RugbyPilg
[Rosie] Yes - you're coming :-) I'll email you tomorrow with all the details.
The size of things
(Projoy) Oh, everybody knows that. And I used to know the area of Surrey, viz. 722 sq mi. But it keeps losing its north-eastern bits to London. Has less of a Fringe on the Top, you could say. (Chalky) OK, thanks.:-)
Surrey to hear that
Rosie] Surely some of the bits that Surrey lost were Morden just a fringe?
hoorah pun wars...
bad timing or what?
I'm off to rome tomorrow on study tour, then on to Pompeii and Herculaneum...in spite of Johnny Paul himself dying at the very thought, there I shall be. I apologise if my hostel in Rome doesn't have the internet - if that is indeed the case, feel free to play on with the AVM game without me, I'll just have more questions to answer when I come back :)
old Surrey
(Irouleguy) Ewell be sorry you said that. Waddon earth are you playing at?
oh hello ZK. send us a postcard, c/o North Wales.
Rugby stuff
[Rosie] email sent.
[Bob the dog] Hope you're around - we have work to do :-)
updates on aches
Monday morning AGAIN... it comes round so quickly! My arms ache from scarifying the grass at home (vigorous raking to remove moss and dead thatch with a sprung rake). I've done about a quarter of the total so far, including re-seeding the bald patches it creates. Further to that, my legs ache for deciding to take yesterday afternoon off from scarifying and wander through London instead. I parked at Dolphin Square in Pimlico and walked, with a friend, up to Covent Garden and back again. We only stopped at two pubs...
My grandfather has just died of a heart attack after a fall. Totally shocked and upset.
[Rab] You have my sympathy. Family deaths are hard enough when it's expected.
Dreadful news, and a huge shock, I would imagine. *hugs*
That was me
How awful, I wrote rab's name instead of mine.
Rab
Really sorry to hear that - condolences and *hug*
[rab] Also sorry to hear that. These sorts of things always take you by surprise. My grandfather just came out of hospital after a fall down his stairs (he'd been lying at the bottom for two days before he was found).
Thanks everyone for your kind words.
rab] Condolences too. Looks like it's shaken up pen too.
[rab] it's been said, but my condolences are with you and your family. *hug*
back in
[rab]Sorry to hear of your sad news.

[Dujon]You are back in the chase.At the moment I'm chasing the Royals as they seem to be in a bit of disarray.

[rab] My sympathy flies o'er the seas to put a hand on your shoulder. Having lost all my antecedents other than my Mum I know only too well that it's never easy. Chin up.
[Inkspot] Ta. Me too, share prices vary wildly but the dividends should be good with the wedding coming up.
[Rab] aww - that's very sad news. Sounds as though he was much loved so I hope he had a happy life.
*lights too many joss sticks in one go on the mantelpiece and ponders*
Daq yeild techie talk
[Dujon] Even after all this time I am still learning new things about Celebdaq. Each week I regulaly use JJB’s dividends and returns tools. Last week the guy was Top Trader and reading the interview another penny dropped; yes even after all this time. Up to now I have been looking at Potential Total Gain and Pot Dividend, how wrong have I been. It turns out in his dividend report there is a column “Pot Yeild” this is ratio of price against dividend. This is the column I need to take note of which means buying a low priced celeb not necessarily that with the hightest pot. gain. It would appear that this weeks best buys on Monday were Jamie Oliver (212%) or Vic Reeves (210%) rather than my current holding, Prince William (141%).
I am going to try this out next week just to see, and as long as I buy before midnight on Monday and hold on till Friday there should be a handsome % gain
[rab] *adds sympathies to the pile*
professional angst
What can you do with a client who wants you to do lots of press releases for him and his organisation, but when you do get them ready, he's too disorganised to sign anything off in time, then panics about how late everything is and so avoids opening your emails, reading your faxes or taking your phone calls until it's really too late to put out the news? *grinds teeth in frustration*
professional gangsta
Where is 'e, pen? I'll deck 'im.
[pen] seconded. I'm in a violent mood so me and my size twelves will go and see him.
[Nights'n'Chalks] The idea is to keep the account...
OK - keep the account - lose the loser.
Back to plan A. Me and nights'll sort him, like permanently. His staff probably hate him as well so they'll thank us for the deed, as will you when you find he's been replaced by a considerate but not ingratiating, organised but not anal, phonecall answering fax reading email opening, townhouse AND country retreat owning, National Trust member, recently singled so a bit lonely and needs to get back into the dating thingy, gregarious, amusing, clean smelling, looks-don't-matter-but-not-too-smooth-and-oily [the occasional crooked tooth is always a good sign], spontaneous, generous, PR lady-obsessed, 30-something ...
[Chalks] Sounds perfect. When can you do it? And what should I wear for the first date meeting?
Chalks] Thats me! Apart from the single status and organised bit. Anyway, I'd rather be creatively unsystematic than anal any day...
Bob the creativebutnotsingle dog
... and there I was, singing your praises in the Orange Pilg Game - the youngsters are getting restless ...
Youngsters?
I know, bless them, but things is all under control - in my usual creatively unsystematic way... (casts another surreptitious glance at a passing PR lady and gets rapped on the knuckles by NotmrsBobthedog).
I have decided that this year I am NOT going to panic quite as much as I did last year. Excuse me, a PR lady has just arrived and I must talk to her about something that has been on my mind...
*dishevels*
Yippeee! Friday. Twenty minutes to go. I am sooo gonna big up the snooooze when I get home.
excuse me while i shout excitedly that IT'S SATURDAY AND I DON'T HAVE TO GO TO WORK WOOOOOTTT!!!!

sorry about that. but i'm excited that it's nearly midday and I'm still in bed.
The slack life
nights] You know when it's holiday time when you're woken up by the sound of an ice cream van.
[nights, Tuj] And the dawn chorus stops you from getting to sleep.
It's all so clear now.
I've found out why this site keeps having problems! The truth is here.
[tuj] we have an abnormally large amount of ice cream vans around by us. I keep thinking they play 'tubular bells' but it's actually 'greensleeves'. but an ice cream van playing tubular bells would be excellent. if slightly creepy.
cool sites
their is a hot site called castlesofspirits.com go their if you dare. if u cant sleep at night not ma fault.they show u hot to levitate people and how to play and make ure own quija board. theirs also pics of real spirits.for those who dont believe in ghosts u got to c it to believe it.
i wanna say hi to ma people in elizabeth nj.and ma enemies they can go down to u know where especially KRITZIA. kritzia i cant stand u.
Gosh, I really need a quija board! I've still got all the quija pieces, but of course I lost the board so I can't play the game any more.
Saul's Kites
I went to a seance on Thursday night, as it happens. It was good fun, and we managed to contact the spirits who played around with some objects on the table, banged it a few times and then buggered off. All in the name of scientific research of course.

Meanwhile, my ongoing battle with Jerry continues. I was always suspicious that the bait hadn't been taken and in fact all it did was make him tiptoe more lightly around the kitchen. Confirmation came after I scattered a little flour on the floor, expecting to find ickle paw-prints in it the next morning. Sod that - he came and ate the whole bloody lot! So the snap traps came out, and again he's proved himself to be a canny bugger and has steadfastly avoided them (despite one of them fitting snugly inside his entry channel).

It turns out that the right thing to do is to call the landlord's agents, who have a dedicated mouse man who'll come out, do a thorough investigation and block up all the hole. So this should all be over soon I hope...

Jerry
[rab] Have you not considered Tom ? Have you a friend with a moggy you could borrow ? One night would probably dod the trick.
Dr Mouse is coming to visit at lunchtime, so we'll see what he does.
Dave's squirting stuff in my holes as we speak.
[rab] That's more than I wanted to know.
Dave was fab! Tracked down all the mouse activity, and took the belt and braces approach of sealing their entry points and slapping down not one, not two, but three different types of bait. He does a repeat visit next week to seal up the one remaining hole (which is there to let anyone out who might have been hiding in the airing cupboard) and laugh in the face of dead rodents.
there were little trays of rat poison on the floor when we moved into our house. they're still there. I'm not sure if this is good or bad.

I won't be e-pilging this evening, I'm going to an open mic night because a friend of mine is going to get up and do some damien rice and some of his own stuff. my housemates and I will sit at the back and clap supportively, or get rat-arsed, one of the two. actually probably both.
richard wiseman
rab ] I am assuming that that isn't the same Richard Wiseman who is head of the Legal Department at Shell ? I met him once - very nice chap, but looked like he had been washing himself in money.
[st d] How does someone look when they have been washing themselves in filthy lucre? Pretty grubby, I'd expect.
of Mice and Men
(rab) Your "ongoing battle with Jerry" makes me think of those old farts (and not-so-old farts) who cannot accept that WW2 ended some time ago.
It did? Blimey.
I have just accidentally tipped coffee over a particularly hated job bag containing piece of work which I have taken a week and a half longer to complete than I should have done, purely because I don't like doing it. This makes me believe that malevolent forces exist on Wednesday mornings. Unfortunately the coffee also went over my leg.
oops.
[pen] Have you noticed how coffee expands when freed from the constaints of a cup/mug? One knocked over mug of coffee can flood an entire desk, soak into reams of paperwork and fill a couple of drawers.
nassssty coffeeses
.. and possibly does the most damage when deftly tipped over a computer keyboard where it completely disappears!

[pen] a job bag, eh? Reminds me of my student hols when I worked on a geriatric ward ..

sorrysorrysorry - I'm just talking shite, as usual
Washing the desk
And remember that if you do spill coffee on your desk: save the phone and the papers before worrying about the keyboard (keyboard £20, phone £200 if it's a clever one, papers probably several hours of your time).
I think job bags exist to protect their hated contents from coffee. The papers within are only soggy along one edge. The coffee in my keyboard was soaked up by all the crumbs already in there. My phone was protected by a layer of papers. In other news, I was taken out for lunch today by my boss. And no, I'm not about to lose my job :o)
Scientists have observed that coffee is 20-30% more spillable than tea.
[rab] can you quote your source?
R. A. Blythe (2005) Private communication.
Rabbit Sauce
Pen] He lies. Check out so help me God.
bidding frenzy
I am currently in a bidding frenzy on ebay for a batch of whopping great blue, football-sized Agapanthus flowers with which to beautify my garden come the summer, when I'm having a Birthday Garden Party. I also bought some other stuff this morning, and I should win another one this afternoon for violet Surfinias. I just had to tell someone - no-one in the office is interested and it's soooo exciting.
e-Bay-Gum
[pen] It is exciting when it gets to the last minute and you are still the highest bidder. I was outbid twice in the last 3 seconds on one occasion. Selling can be frustrating though. I had 8 people watching one item and I only got one bid in the end.
Hmmm, should I bid on those Surfinias . . . . .
[Boolbar] Don't you dare!!
much, much later...
The blue Surfinias are mine, MINE, ALL MINE!!! mwahahahahahahah!
Blue
Surfinias? Are you sure they aren't the Smurfinias - the little blue characters with bleached hair and a funny hat riding a surf board? I suppose they'd still make cute garden gnomes.
[pen] we're excited for you. interior design is a worryingly popular thing in our house. our favourites list on our cable box runs 'sky one', 'UKTV Gold', 'sky sports news', 'UKTV Style' - whu?
The only interior design I did as a student was pinning up posters and checking down the back of every settee in every house I lived in for loose change and valuables. Only ever found forks stuck about with Nuttalls Mintoes though.
chuckworthy
pen] I read that as ".. and chUcking down the back of every settee in every house ..." :-)

nights] Exterior design, shurely?

'sit Rover
So Rover has come finally to the end of car production. Although I am sad to see an end to 6,000 jobs and all the supporting industry. It has been a slow motion car crash and inevitable as Phoenix tried to maintain the existing levels of mass production. My hope is that the administrators will come to an agreement with someone like Alchemy do build a niche market MG even though this will be with a much reduced workforce.

This weekend will be further decoration of the living room. As background I tune the Freeview box to digital radio, lots of channels but end up listening to 6Music. I tried Q but after hearing The Waterboys for the third time in as many days and accident lawyers, next stop is Kerrang!

Sic transit Rover
You can't imagine the French government allowing Renault or Citroen to go bust or the Germans BMW, Audi or Daimler, can you? So how seriously does the government take manufacturing? Not very, as we all know.
Rover
Why pay them to make what no-one wants to buy?
I don't see what more the government can do. They've offered big injections of cash, they've tried to broker a deal with the Chinese car company... If a private company cannot compete and goes under, it's not the government's responsibility to keep it afloat any more than it is anyone else's. I think it's pretty good that they did as much as they did.
Why should the workforce get screwed over for management's incompetence (and squirreling away of large amounts of cash from the company, from some reports)? And if Rover cars really can't be sold, turn the production lines over to something useful, like public transport.
[Irouleguy] Exploring the possibilities of keeping the business going is precisely the administrators' job. But in the end, if they can't find anyone who wants to run it and has a credible business plan, it goes under. That is unfortunate for the former employees, but losing out when the people you work for fail is one of the risks of any sort of employment.
I have never understood the fetish about manufacturing. I mean, Rover makes a car in the midlands. Fine. But if you want to buy the car in Glasgow, say, then you need someone to transport it, which means a services sector. And then you want to buy it, and you probably don't have several thousands pounds in cash on you, so you need a bank, which again means a services sector.

The point is that the product that interests you is not a car sitting on a lot hundreds of miles from you that can only be purchased for cash on the nail. It is a car available for delivery in Glasgow in exchange for a bank draft. And that requires services every bit as much as it needs manufacturing.
That's funny
In Glasgow I thought they just nicked them. Oh well, live and learn.
Raak] Unless the government steps in and does something, like nationalise it. Governments used to do that here, and they still do on the continent and elsewhere. When exactly did it get written that the market has the absolute power to screw us all over?
[Irouleguy] I.e. subsidise it with other people's money. When exactly did it get written that every incompetently run business has the absolute power to put a trowel into my pocket?
(Raak) When the railways were privatised, amongst other instances. The Government subsidy to Train Operators and Rolling Stock Leasing companies is huge, and vastly more than was available to BR. Large amounts of public money disappear into private profit. So the true answer to your question is; "when the current political dogma has to be satisfied". There's a lot of it about, worldwide, and always has been.
jobsworth
Littlewoods is shedding 3000 jobs and closing most of its 'Index' stores. Will there be a march on parliament and hundreds of millions of pounds in government aid?
No work today
Raak] What Rosie said, plus the Common Agricultural Policy (which puts your money and mine into the pockets of the royal family!), the Export Credit Guarantee Department (which ensured that when arms manufacturers flogged stuff to Saddam Hussain and he didn't pay up that you and I paid for it), the 'guarantees' given to PFI contractors....
Easy money
(Irouléguy) I was going to mention all that, so I'm glad you did. Also, many countries practise protectionism. A typical example (the legally-enforceable Buy American policy of many US institutions) cost me my job in 1998.
it's early and I'm tired
Also it doesn't help that the average CEO's salary has risen to a truely incomprehensible sum. Oh, your company is out of money? Mayhaps it's because you were paying yourself thirty million dollars a year for a job consisting largely of assigning yourself more stock options. Fortunately you'll never feel the sting of unemployment because you write yourself off as a personal corporation for tax purposes and you don't need one of those silly retirement accounts because you have more money than King Solomon. Sadly four thousand people have lost their honest, hard-working jobs, but if they're that honest and hard-working I'm sure they'll land on their feet.

...
On a separate note, I want to see someone jump twenty motorcycles with a full size bus.
goodbyeee
hello everyone, since university work is building up and building up at an alarming rate, I don't really have time to keep playing MC, sadly. I hope to be back in the summer, but for now I'll say goodnight and hope you all have a LOT of fun in Rugby. (crossposted)
Good prince sweet nights
Take care, even us new fellows will miss you.
[Rosie, Irouléguy] But your examples really just support Raak's point. Raak says "we shouldn't subsidise companies that make stuff that no-one wants to buy". Your response seems to be "we should, because, look, here are lots of other ridiculous cases where the government subsidises companies that make stuff that no-one wants to buy". Raak would respond (I guess) "Absolutely. Scrap the CAP and export guarantees and all of those other stupid policies as well". In other words, in rebutting Raak's rhetorical point ("when exactly did it get written...") you end up buttressing his substantive point.
Which raises the question: is having people out of work "bad" for the wider economy? (It's obviously "bad" for those people who aren't being paid, but the economy doesn't care about people so that's an irrelevant concern). If the answer is "yes", is it right for a government to find ways to get people into employment?
There is a simple (simplistic?) argument that goes that it's cheaper and better for the economy to have a person producing 1000 units of value to the economy and paying them 1500 units to do so if the alternative is to pay them 1000 units to do nothing. This means government intervention and subsidy, because although it's good for the economy it's bad for any individual employer.
I know there are all sorts of arguments about market distortion, structural inefficiencies, impact on long-term competitiveness etc. (I'm sure CdM can come up with plenty of them). And yet it seems to me there's still a fundamental truth in there which those arguments don't eliminate - especially if aid and subsidy is carefully aimed and time-restricted.
Having said that, Rover was dead in the water 5 years ago and the 6000 working there have had 5 years more work and pay out of it than they had any right to expect. It is not a suitable recipient for further aid in its present form or on its present site. All the government can do is help to manage the transition to other jobs for the people concerned.
[rab] Every day out of work for someone who is able to work is a day's labour lost forever. Labour is the most perishable commodity there is. The fewer people who work, the less stuff is created. So yes, having people out of work makes us all poorer. Of course, I'm taking the view that the more stuff we have (including intangibles such as art and clean streets) the better; someone who takes the opposite view, that the less stuff we have the better, like some extreme environmentalists, would presumably want to see unemployment rise as high as possible, and will be celebrating that a manufacturer of evil machines has finally gone out of business.
[rab] You also take the view that all jobs result in "stuff being created," which isn't necessarily true.
[Darren] Do I? Or did you mean Raak?
[Darren] Assuming you meant me, yes, there are unproductive jobs, such as, according to the stories, a lot of the management jobs at Rover. Paying people a fat salary to do nothing does nobody any good, including the people paid the fat salary.
Yes, I meant Raak. Sorry about that.
CdM] You're right in that I wasn't defending the practices I listed (and I'm pretty sure Rosie wasn't either). The point we were making was that it's a conscious political choice for the government to let Rover go to the wall, and that this is a bad thing. I'd echo most of INJ's and Raak's answers to rab, as well. I think it is the government's responsibility to do something about employment.
There's a really lovely argument in Peter Singer's The President of Good and Evil against the "it's my money" position re: tax (and by extension re: interventionist economic policy), which I'm now going to have to dig out and mention. There we go, the book was useful for something after all.
[Projoy] That should be interesting. It is my money. By what right does he claim the government gets to take a cut of every business transaction?
[Irouléguy] By that reasoning, pretty much everything is a conscious political choice. Your local newsagent closes down? Conscious political choice -- the government could have paid them two million pounds to stay open. You chose to go onto the internet today? Conscious political choice! -- the government could have bribed you not to.

If you want to make an argument for why the government should intervene in this particular case (and a good argument has to be one that also explains when the government should not intervene), then that's fair enough and I would be interested to hear it. I have to say I think Raak's summary is the appropriate one here, though: Rover were making something that people didn't want to buy. The End.

(On the other hand I disagree with Raak on the 'it's my money' argument, but I think that is a whole different debate.)
CdM] I don't think the first point follows at all. The closure will cost something like 5,000 jobs at Longbridge, plus up to 15,000 in suppliers - that's up to 20,000 wage packets taken out of the local economy, which will then have a further knock-on effect across the West Midlands. Any government would have to take a position on an economic event of that magnitude. The tens of thousands of people whose lives are blighted is why the government should intervene - and I don't see why a coherent case for that depends on saying that if it were a different set of people the government shouldn't. Obviously I don't think every failed small business is a case for government intervention, but I think that's something of a straw person.

As for Rover making something that no-one wanted to buy, again some exaggeration: Rover couldn't sell enough of what it produced to persuade the people with the money to invest in it, which is a rather different matter. And then there's the little matter of the £500 million hole in Rover's finances (allegedly). Taking the money and running comes to mind.
I actually think this Government is being quite brave in letting Rover die. 30 years of government subsidies of BL et al has failed to produce a company that comes close to making a profit, let alone a decent product. Whilst I fully accept Irouéleguy's argument is pertinent, that volume of investment would shirley be better placed in other sectors where there was a chance of making it work? And to do this in the run in to a general election is, perhaps, unprecedented. And before the accusations fly, I do not (and have only once) vote(d) Labour.

But I do work for a rival car company...
[Irouléguy] Something like 300,000 businesses close down in the UK each year (the vast majority of them small businesses). Even if those companies are all single-person enterprises, that's 300,000 jobs, plus I don't know how many suppliers, not to mention further knock-on effects across the entire country. Any government would have to take a position on an economic event of that magnitude. The hundreds of thousands of people whose lives are blighted is why the government should intervene.

I don't think small business failure is a straw person at all. Tell me why Rover should be bailed out, as opposed to 5,000 randomly selected small businesses.
Please accept my humblest apologies for the cross posting. The new Rugby event games have now been posted here - or if the link doesn’t work – in the Orange Pilg Game.

The sleepover event, entitled That Went Off Very Well, looks as if we have a record number of players – but more are always welcome. Kind regards, James the dog.
Rover
I used to have a P6. It were lovely. I know it isn't "mass production" but we are still (we = uk) making world class cars to wit, the TVRs of Blackpool, and from Kensington, the humble BRISTOL. Check out the "FIGHTER".
Rover
I must say I'm entirely with CdM on this one. And not just because I don't like cars, either. Last time I got made redundant, the government didn't step in with a cash injection to my company so it could keep me on. But it did provide benefits until I found a new job. I'd have thought that the task of the government in cases like this is to try to help people back into work - which this government has done admirably with its various schemes - rather than artificially subsidise a company that clearly isn't going anywhere. If you think that it should do that, then at what point do you call it a day? Would Rover still exist in 50 years' time as a bizarre, quaint hangover from the past, pointlessly making useless things, a kind of manufacturing Sisyphus, paid for by the government simply because it's a grand old institution, like the monarchy? I'd say that if there is a point at which you just can't do any more, and surely there is, then that point has been reached.
Hi all! Sorry about the AVMA débacle. I really rather thought there'd be internet in ONE of the hostels I was staying in. But alas, twas not to be. Looks like it's going at a rollocking pace since I left though so I shan't intefere :)
Peter Singer
I googled Peter Singer -- see, e.g. here. He's a hard-line utilitarian, who believes that defective newborn babies should be killed, and that meat-eating is wrong. Is his argument for taxes that the government will use our money more wisely than we will?
[Raak] Sorry, I haven't looked it up yet and I can't remember all the details of the argument off the top of my head. I'll try and find it and post it for critical review here, as I found it pretty persuasive I must admit. (BTW, aren't you a hardline utilitarian too? The Rover argument hints that you are.)
Mm. On second thought, maybe it doesn't. I think the gist of the Singer argument on tax is that we all subsist within superstructures of wealth, and that "your" money wouldn't buy you anything without those superstructures, and those superstructures have costs that you don't generally pay directly, but you can, sort of, in a way, if you will, pay them indirectly via tax. But as I say, I don't remember the detail and may have that wrong.
Singer
Ah, he gives a précis'd version of the argument on this page. It's sort of how I put it, but not quite.
hardlining
[Projoy] I've always thought of Raak as more of a libertarian. But I would be interested to know how he describes himself. As for "whose money is it anyway", variants of that kind of argument certainly predate Singer. Broadly speaking I take the view that our ability to transact is only secured by governments that protect property rights, enforce contracts, jail muggers (unless they are managing large corporations, of course), that kind of thing. The social contract that we agree to is that, in return for these guarantees, we accept that governments have the right to tax us. And once that right is established, there are then good public policy arguments for various kinds of taxing and spending by government. That's pretty loosely articulated, but then it is very late here in Singapore. :-)
[CdM] Libertarian, definitely. And there is a libertarian answer to the question of how things could work without governments, for which see David Friedman's book The Machinery of Freedom (which I haven't read, but I have read a lot of his postings to Usenet). He has a web site with related essays and sample chapters from the book.
       The problem with the social contract idea is that it isn't a contract in any reasonable sense of the word. I don't have a choice about it (beyond emigrating to live under someone else's social contract) and its terms are nowhere defined. In practice, they are defined as obligating people and governments to do exactly what the person invoking it thinks they ought to do. It's as empty as religionists explaining how the elephant got its nose by saying God made it that way.
       [Projoy] I don't see there (in the "Compassionate Conservatism and Tax Cuts" section) any argument that these things must be done by governments, only the unsupported assertion accompanied by (to borrow an epithet he uses a few sentences later) a simplistic caricature of the idea. So where he says that "it's our money" is a simplistic and indefensible way to think about tax, I would say it's a simplistic and defensible way to think about tax.
       Something that might be worth reading alongside Singer's utilitarian writings is C. S. Lewis' The Abolition Of Man.
Yes, obviously the argument is worked through a bit better in his book. But regarding the social contract, I'm more with CdM, on the assumption that when he says "we agree" he's using it as shorthand for "we accept perforce as the collective behaviour of our species, appreciate the logic, whether we agree or not, and find a way of functioning within the social contract". As a bleeding-heart liberal, the trouble I always have with libertarian arguments (at least as I've heard them advanced) is they are fundamentally unempathetic and callous. They also tend to massively overestimate the effectiveness of individual choice compared to collective effort and, critically, most people's reasoning ability. I'm not being snobby here, I just mean that there isn't time in a human's life to individually negotiate the details of their relationship, financial or otherwise, to everyone they deal with: hence trade unions, hence law, hence social conventions, hence - in short - collectivisation. Libertarianism to me is fine in smaller, simple communities than our current ones, but personally I'd rather have electricity, free internet infrastructure, safe dwellings and (when necessary) unemployment benefit than a basket of berries and nowt else.
BTW, inasmuch as I have a philosophy, it probably is of the utilitarian greatest-happiness variety...
How things would work without governments
Singer & Co.
[Raak] To add to that, I typed up the relevant bit of the Singer argument, which is here for a short while.
er... and hopefully your browser will word wrap that.
Libertarian Teuchters
Brad DeLong's follow-up to Belle Waring's post is pretty good, too.

[Breadmaster] Am I right in presuming you will be in the philosophy department at NUS? I ask as a big fan of the John Holbo/Belle Waring blog...
Raak recommending C.S. Lewis? There's a thing. For what it's worth, I was under the impression that libertarianism was a political stance, not a moral philosophy.
[CdM] That's right. But what is this blog? Actually, right now I'm mired in indecision, wondering whether going to Singapore would be the right thing to do or not. I'm not certain I want to be an academic, but that's what it would basically channel me into. Plus, of course, being away from my girlfriend for a long time would be a bad thing. I hate making decisions!
[Projoy] Singer is advocating relativism about property. Property is whatever local custom and law says it is. If local custom and law says the government owns your whole salary, why, that's just how it is. They can own your firstborn, or you yourself. That's the social contract you somehow accepted when you got born, and any silly idea you have about owning things that the government says you can't is just an illusion. The government owns everything it provides, and it owns everything it needs to take from you to provide it. Lest you think I'm exaggerating, I have actually heard someone argue (before the Wall came down) that East Germany was perfectly justified in shooting people attempting to escape, because such people were stealing the upbringing and education that the state had given them, and which therefore gave the state a property interest in their person. Singer even comes straight out and says "A system of government is conceptually prior to property rights." Who's ignoring human nature now? I mean, most larger animals behave like they have some sort of idea of "my stuff", never mind human beings, and they don't have governments to enforce the idea, they do it themselves. In just about any political philosophy but Singer's, governments are instituted to secure pre-existing property rights.
       A key concept in discussions of libertarianism is, "Utopia is not an option", so when Belle Waring brings in "libertarian utopia" I pretty much lose interest, even though she's recounting a discussion involving David Friedman. The wishful thinking can be found just as much on the other sides. Look here to see what you can do to Make Poverty History: email the PM, send postcards, sign a petition (of breathtaking fatuity), wear a white ribbon, and "call for change and make it happen"! Let's wish for government to give everyone a pony! At least Singer gives 20% of his income to charity.
       [CdM again, re Brad deLong] Go back to those earlier writers and ask them to imagine a world without servants. Go back earlier and ask people to imagine a world without slaves, or (say, in mediaeval Europe) a world without Christianity. You would get the same incredulity as you do at present asking most people to imagine a world without government.
       [Bm] I see it as a political stance grounded in the moral philosophy that everyone has a duty to take responsibility for themselves and their actions, and to make the very best of what they're given by fate, nobody else owing them anything but what they freely choose to give. That is not by any means the whole of morality -- it is largely disjoint from the Tao admirably expounded by C.S. Lewis in the book I mentioned -- but I regard it as an essential part of the whole.
[Raak] Interesting. When Singer says "a system of government is conceptually prior to property rights" (rather than, say, chronologically prior) surely he doesn't mean that before we had governments we had no property. What he means is that when two people, or indeed other animals come into conflict over property, there immediately emerges some means of deciding priority: strength, guile etc. Out of the two organisms you have a system of government (note that Singer does not say government itself). When 'strength of numbers' becomes the deciding factor in terms of who gets the resources you have something even more recognisable as a system of government. These arrangements are transitory, unstable, inefficient. Surely what we see in our own far more effient and abstract systems of government is the ossification of many iterations of this sort of process? (i.e. Government is inevitable, discuss). Even a world without a nominal government, run, say, by communities of interest or corporations there would be a de facto pecking order, wouldn't there? Assuming this world had such things as property rights, the big corps would be a system of government.
[Raak] How do you react to the following? "Your property is what anybody stronger than you lets you own and that you don't surrender to anybody weaker than you, or vice versa."
[Projoy] Ha! By yielding I overcome! "Property" doesn't exist as a real thing in itself. Neither do "rights". "Property" and "rights" are ways in which people conceptualise how people should relate to each other. So, your hypothetical statement is an accurate description of who actually gets to own stuff, but not a description of most people's various ideas about what constitutes property and who should have it.
[Projoy, your previous message] I don't see two dogs fighting over a bone as a government, nor two tribes fighting over territory. If the word "government" is extended to mean "whatever way people arrange of living together" then even the hypothetical world of David Friedman's book has a government. But that empties the word of usefulness. Governments, that we call governments, have just this in common: that they impose by force a monopoly on the use of force to settle disputes.
Weirder and weirder
I've just been investigating Time Capsules for a PR stunt proposal... and then looked at my horoscope which said: "Consider the long term today." (Cancer, Jonathan Cainer) Ha.
[pen] Do you take time capsules (3 times a day with meals) to give you more time to do things?
Taking my time (three times a day, with food)
[Boolbar] Yup.
Cancer
[pen] That must be me too then. I don't read horoscopes, so I have to take mine second-hand, obviously. Thanks.
I once owned a cook book by Jonathan Cainer. It consisted of recipes like, "Open can. Put beans on plate. Serve." and some strange gubbins about how vegetarianism was an affirmation of life. He's a man of many talents! If only he used some of them.
[Raak] You're dismissing Belle Waring's arguments because she uses "libertarian utopia" as a tongue-in-cheek description of the kind of society that Epstein, Barnett and Friedman are discussing. But leave that phrase aside if you like: I think her one paragraph synopses of their arguments is pretty close to the money.

As an economist, I am sympathetic to the view that we should encourage the value-creating possibilities of private contracting between individuals, and as a social liberal, I am sympathetic to the view that we should limit government intrusion into private decisions. Those are positions that loosely ally with libertarianism. But I am also aware that, in the real world, private transactions frequently have significant consequences beyond the transactors, and libertarian arguments start crumbling rapidly one you take this seriously. (Epstein recognizes this in his contribution, and so ends up advocating a form of state that is not really that different from what we already have; he would simply like to see less government regulation.) The key paragraph from Belle Waring's argument is surely this, though:

Now, everyone close your eyes and try to imagine a private, profit-making rights-enforcement organization which does not resemble the mafia, a street gang, those pesky fire-fighters/arsonists/looters who used to provide such "services" in old New York and Tokyo, medieval tax-farmers, or a Lendu militia. (In general, if thoughts of the Eastern Congo intrude, I suggest waving them away with the invisible hand and repeating "that's anarcho-capitalism" several times.) Nothing's happening but a buzzing noise, right?

I am completely with her here: it is at this point that I think libertarianism utterly loses touch with reality. Private contracting without some institution to enforce contracts is infeasible, and private provision of contract enforcement strikes me as much scarier than enforcement by a democratically elected government. (Perhaps that's what comes of visiting countries where ordinary restaurants are guarded by men with sub-machine guns.)

Oh, and you are completely misreading Brad DeLong. He is not saying that Smith, Hume, Hobbes, et al. couldn't imagine a world without government; he is saying the exact opposite. He is saying that they know it to be a crazy idea because they can imagine it all too well.
I haven't thought about this too much, or read any of the references (hmmm - pursuing as ever the highest standards of academic rigour...). However my immediate reaction to the concept of "no government" is a feeling that such a thing would in fact be unstable. For without government, it is surely then impossible to have an army. Without an army, you leave yourself open to invasion from a power that does have an army, and you're back to having a government. If there were no governments, as there once weren't, a nucleation event would surely propagate. Or am I being too simplistic?
[CdM] On the last point, I don't think I am misreading: the hypothetical responses of Smith et al are those of people unable to imagine the alternatives. (As a digression, I would not be surprised -- except by my living so long -- to see in a century's time the relationship of "employment" being regarded as as degrading as "keeping a servant" is regarded by many people today.)
       Having just read the Reason article that Belle Waring had such fun with, her summary of Friedman is way off. There is no wishful thinking in Friedman. Speculation, certainly. Waring is speculating as well, speculating about a world in which the governmental restraints on people that we see around us are absent, but ignoring all of the proposals for what might replace them. Let's wish for no-one to have a pony!
       The fundamental problem of having a government to secure public goods is this: how do you restrict the government to doing only that? Looking around at the world, it seems clear to me that nobody has found a solution to that problem. The thing that governments are most effective at is securing and extending their own power.
       [rab] The idea is that there are other institutions instead, ones that do not take the form of a small group of people (elected or otherwise) telling everyone else what to do. As you point out, the original state of institutionless nature was in fact followed by governments.
[Raak] How do you restrict anyone to securing public goods? Whether they are government in name or (part of) government by fact? Constitutions, bills of rights, checks and balances all seem like a good start to me.
[Raak] re your previous points about convention determining property... I think you are overstating it in a way that suggests Government is not continuous with us, the people. You could justifiably accuse me of cultural myopia here, I suppose, because I'm thinking mainly about democratic governments of the type I've directly experienced, but there is an extent to which governments may be closer to a genuine contract than the simple fiat of convention or the powerful: democracy, including lobbyism etc. is it. I'd be interesting to know whether your argument is based on a greatest-happiness idea and if so how libertarian mechanisms follow from that. As I mentioned before, my problem with systems based on high personal responsibility is that they do not recognise the moral value of protecting the weak. It strikes me that you have to bite the bullet and say (as you once jokingly put it) "a man who doesn't have enough friends to pull his plough had better starve".

Also, I note you haven't really responded to the argument about social capital.

s/interesting/interested
St George's Day Celebrations
Salisbury is festooned. There's a re-enactment of the mighty battle plus lots of celebrations in the market place tomorrow. I'd happily place a bet that every school age child in our district knows who St George is.
On this subject ...
I could do with some help because I have very little free time ... I have to compile 10 questions for our Sunday Quiz night [coincidentally the pub is the George & Dragon] on the theme of George & The Dragon so I need 5 'George' questions and 5 'Dragon' questions - not just historical ones. 2 easy ones that spring to mind are "what is the name of the actor who played George in George and Mildred" and "the full name please of the lizard that has the word dragon in its name?" That sort of level. Any further ideas would be much appreciated ..
Erm.. name of the Rentaghost dragon.. island to have been awarded the George cross.. origin of the phrase By George!..
thanks rab :-)
You could ask for the translation of the motto of Hogwart's school: "Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus". How many King Georges have we had? (or how many Georges reigned in the eighteenth/twentieth century?). Who wrote "Aida" and what does his name translate into English as? What was George VI's real name? Who wrote "I Got Rhythm"? (or which of the following pieces/novels/whatever were written by a George?)... Who performed "Georgy Girl"?
The name of the Dragon in The Hobbit...
Gosg - thanks Projoy :-) :-)
Gosg?
D&D
(With apologies for cross-post)
My ten-year-old son is very keen to play Dungeons & Dragons (of the take left fork, pick up ring, drink potion type) - can anyone suggest a good site for him to visit that is (a) safe for 10-y-os, (b) interesting but accessible to a 10-y-o novice and (c) free or at least inexpensive ? It doesn't matter whether its MUDD playing other players or simply finding his way through a maze playing only the computer - in fact the latter might be better to start with ... any ideas ?
I suppose something like Nethack or Slash'Em would be OK for him, if he didn't find the user interface too complicated.

On the more less-D&D-but-more-maze-with-potions-and-monsters side of things, and at the risk of blowing my own trumpet, why not try Ravenskull, which I programmed for Superior Interactive? (www.superiorinteractive.co.uk)

Nethack can come from http://www.nethack.org/ and Slash'Em can come from http://slashem.sourceforge.net/
Lynx
[Darren] You can do hyperlinks here in the usual way (until I get round to changing the syntax slightly as a spam blockade).

Anyway, did you write the original Ravenskull, or convert it to PC? I vaguely recall owning this for my trusty old Acorn Electron when I were a lad, but there were a number of these types of games it could have been another one... In any case, Kudos!

And there's the original,one and only, Colossal Cave.
[rab] I didn't write the original Ravenskull - I did the PC port. Superior Interactive is of course the descendent of the original publisher of Ravenskull on the BBC/Electron (Superior Software) and is still run by Mr Hanson. I've worked on a number of the PC (and other platform) ports of the old Superior games, and still am for that matter.
Thanks for the info. We'll go and have a look at the suggested sites.
Question for Chalky
There have been five kings of England called George. The latest was George V. Name the other four.
*blush*
[Chalky] Oops, have just realised that the Aida question has no George connection :). You could put it in as a trick one, tho :) An alternative would be to see if people can name any hit by Boy George's Culture Club apart from Karma Chameleon.
I'm pretty sure there are quite a few lizards with the word "dragon" in their name (I can think of two off-hand) so I'd avoid that question!
Personally I don't approve of the celebration of St George's Day: simply a slavish copy of the celebration of St Patrick's Day, which itself is an Americanism. At least St Patrick actually had something to do with Ireland: St George is terribly obscure at best and had nothing whatsoever to do with England in the slightest.
*has a queasy feeling of deja vu*
Quiz Qu's
(Chalky) What have George Eliot, George Sand and George of Enid Blyton's Famous Five got in common? (Ans. - All women)
Queues of Queues
As an easy starter, or a tie breaker, how about: From the letters of the name 'George' provide two three letter words which, in essence, have the same meaning. (Ans. Roe and Egg)
[rab] Ah yes, we've had that before, haven't we? Apologies...
[Dujon] I wouldn't call that an easy one, but it's damnably clever. You might also ask what the name "George" actually means (farmer or earthworker).
Georgiana
There has to be a suitable question to which the answer would be "Jorja Fox", but I can't quite think of one.
Paddington...er, no that's wrong. I actually meant Wimbledon. No that's wrong too... I've got it! Kings Cross. Ah - that felt good
George
Damn - wish I'd seen Chalky's request earlier, I love setting quiz questions, but have obviously missed the Sunday deadline now. BTW [SM] Five kings called George ?
As a matter of interest :
  • George III was what relation of George II ?
  • What is the name of the constellation representing the dragon
  • George fighting the dragon appeared on the reverse of which British coin ? (two possible answers)
  • Where did George play with Zippy & Bungle ?
  • Name Hagrid's baby dragon
  • If Sid James was George, who was The Dragon ?
  • Which George had an affair with Chopin ?
  • Which country owns Komodo of Komodo Dragon fame ?
Five kings
It's true. It is also true that there have been two kings of England called George. The latest of which was George II. See?
[Blob] You've got me stumped on the Sid James question.
George and the Dragon
Either Peggy Mount or Hattie Jaques. I'm leaning toward Peggy Mount.
Argent a cross gules
Bif is leaning in the correct direction !
Link
[Pj] A quick Google found this
D&D
blob - I sent you this link anyway, but why not buy your little chaperoo The D&D Player's Handbook. My advice would be encourage him to play it with some friends without a computer. The dice are very cool.
No wonder Bif is leaning. Who has the bigger gravitational pull, Hattie Jacques or Peggy Mount?
AD&D
[Blob / st d] In a recent nostalgic fit, I picked up from Ebay the standard quintet of AD&D manuals that I used to use at the end of the 1980s. Quite makes me want to have another go myself... Now, I just have to rescue my polyhedral dice from the fellow I leant them to about 10 years ago...
Speaking of dragons, does anyone remember the name of the TV programme that was on years ago, a sort of game show like an ancestor of "The Crystal Maze", which was set on a space ship or alien planet in which everything was an anagram of the word "dragon", and which featured a grid on which the player had to move from node to node while being chased by a shimmery thing?
Yes. It was The Adventure Game, and the shimmery thing was "The Vortex" if I recall.

Have just applied for a job online. Which feels wrong somehow. I like putting things into envelopes.

That's it! I knew it was a strangely unexotic title.
[Breadmaster] Yep, it was a wonderful show. I understood they repeated it on some cable channel recently, but since I don't have things like that I couldn't see the repeats. It's a pity cos I'd love to see it again. All I have is the theme music and about 300 screen grabs to keep me company.
Chunky chunks of strudel to all who helped with quizzing :-)
Adventure game feem toon
Oh yes, it's the John Williamsy guitar one, isn't it?
[Botherer] That's right. Ferdinando Carulli's Duo in G, Op. 34, performed by Julian Bream & John Williams.
(Cross-posting) At last! Internet at home! Mwahahahahaha!
he's spreading it about a bit
[UK] You got everywhere!
[penelope] I see you've acquired a new semicolon. It suits you!
Adveture Game
That was a GREAT show. I can still do a very convincing impersonation of The Rangdo Of Arg, aoart from teh looking like an aspidistra part.
colonoscopy
[Darren] You think so? You don't think I should get it surgically removed?
post-semi-colonectomy
That's better. People were avoiding me.
Must go for a slash.
Please excuse my accent. I've lived here for too long I suspect. Whilst the problem's acute it isn't grave at this point in time.
*swipes fly off Dujon's 'o'*
I think someone's taken a shot at my name as well....
Gosh!
It's breaking out all over...
Looks like it's surgery for me, otherwise I'll be in a diacritical condition.
Um-laut-ish behaviour. (Projoy) Your critical condition could have been even more dire if you'd had a wotsit over the "r", like Dvorak. I can't seem to find it.
[penelópe] Ah, so you have. I expect it back you know - it's not a book.
Dvorak keyboards...
The r with a thingy over it doesn't appear to be in the list of HTML entities I can find. Nor indeed the "c" with a... I think it might be called a hacek, but not sure, that is used in Czech words.
č
Háček. Bless you!
ř
ř - That's better.
*installs fly strips on every available surface as everyone but her seems to have flies buzzing around their heads* ;o)

is all I have to say on the matter !
Fls bzzng rnd
Smply mss th vwls nd thn th prblm stps.
o ie o e...
e! I'e o a y ooa!
I evacuate my vowels regularly, I guess that's why I never have that problem
Whereas I'm cons(on)(t)ant in my approach to life. Pick an' mix, kids.
A friend of mine used to pass sentences, penelope. He retired when he felt that in some cases they were becoming too long. (He was a magistrate).
None
Just testing
Did we pass?
I spotted it, but when I came back to recheck, what passes for normality had returned. I just assumed Rab had failed to pay the bills.
(Bthrr) All right for you with all your cnsnnts. :-)
Vote MC5
...in the interests of balance, where are those of us not involved in this vote represented?
Like the look though
...and, totally unrelatedly, I've just realised (thanks to a random poster) that i misspelled the "Maximum" in "Maxuimum High Speed Reverse Obliterate Ruttsborough's Ostrich" [sic]. Drat.
Subtexts
My reading is that Labour is happening and now, LibDem just grabs onto discarded Labour policies for a brief while, while the Tories are the past, only resuscitated now and then out of curiosity.
It is a bit loud isn't it? Don't worry, it'll all be over soon.

This message was brought to you by the "Anti Front-Page Graffiti Coalition (Incorporating the Stop the Dodgy Scansion Alliance)"

[Tuj] I've corrected it for you.
Apparently, I have the same IQ as Goering.
Just imagine if that were repeated all over the country.
[Projoy] IQ is quantitive, not qualitative. Or is it? And stand to attention when I'm talking to you. ;o)
Music notes
At one of the MSN Celebdaq groups I potter around, they have a daily picture quiz and a weekly on line quiz in Chat. As a challenge last night I did a music competition of 10 intros. It went down well so there will be another next week. The only major rules are, one answer per post and no consecutive posts. If you wish to have a go, it is temporarily at MSN Group MC Test Track. If you are doing this in the office - check volume first!
I name that tune in one
Number 6 is A Hard Day's Night by The Beatles.
Ah. That's better.
Late Arrivals. Why don't we have a game of Late Arrivals? Hasn't been done for... ooof.... months! Are there any games getting ready to go off around here?
The Election game could be shortlived. Although the majority's a little shaky on that one.
ITV1 is way ahead than BBC1 on declared results ... I might be pursuaded to stick with it
Yeah - are they geninue results or ITV making it up?
And BBC1 has Boris!
And Peter Snow!
Statistic of the night (so far) the Scottish Socialist Party got 666 votes in Gordon Brown's constituency!
[Chalky] ITV's 'results' are being announced prior to returning officers' confirmations.
Late Arrivals
(pen) Good idea. All those in favour say "aye", say I.
AYE!
psst - free game slot
Clairvoyance
I didn't like the ITV method of 'we have someone on the floor of the count with a mobile phone who's looking over the returning officer's shoulder'. Over the course of the night they got 2 or 3 wrong.
[INJ] I have to say it's not really any different from the way the parties themselves get prior results. I'm never entirely sure why knowing the results a few minutes earlier than anyone else gives you an advantage. It's not as if you can do anything about it.
[Projoy] Yes to No6.
[Darren] The agents anf their supporters are trying to second guess the result from the moment the first box is opened. Part one of the process is that we have to count the papers first into bundles of 25 face up. It is during this that they have markers on the other side of the tables with preprinted list and they watch one of the counters putting a mark against each candidate. As the boxes are in Wards they gauge quickly how it is going. At the count last night there were 13 tables of 5 counters.
During part the guessing is easier. We now take those bundles and this time sort them into four piles (Con/Lab/Lib/other) and then into candidate bundles of 25. It does not take much effort for them to estimate at this stage whether or not it is going to be close.
In Swindon mobile phones were banned from the hall where the count was being held.
[Inkspot] But my point was this: why bother trying to find out before it's announced? What's the point?
It gives them something to do, and try to generate a sense of excitement and tension to a very tedious, mind numbing process.
Early call
[Darren] It gives the losers chance to wipe the tears from their eyes and compose themselves.
It would be a lot more fun if they (and their agents) were locked in a sealed room and only led out to hear the result - so we could see their real live reaction.
[Blob] That would be like the Oxford Union elections, which I once made a film about and which, I can assure you, are just as keenly fought and taken just as seriously as "real" election. Ballots are counted in a completely sealed room, rather like Papal elections, with ridiculous hype about the secrecy of it all.
Free game slot again
101 Uses For a B&D Workmate with a Rope Attached?
No, seriously... what now?
New Game
Rutherford Scattering?
Call me Thrax.
I'm glad the student elections at MY university weren't so beligerent, Breadmaster. They were little more than an excuse for a piss-up. I ran unopposed anyway, since no one else wanted the position of Students with disabilities Secretary. Maybe THAT's why they wouldn't read out my result until after I'd sung a Karaoke of "I'm Too Sexy" by Right Said Fred, and lifted several pair drops out of a bowl full of self-raising flour using my teeth. Still, you make your own entertainment in the Midlands, I suppose.
OK
G'day, Thrax. Nice to see you posting. Hope all's well, my friend.
Call me Thrax.
Aye, 'tis well enough. Just hope they've lifted that mobile phone ban on us Swindonians.

And life treating you well down under, sir? By which I mean "in Australia", not "has the pox cleared up?" of course.
As we say in the medical industry, he's doing as well as can be expected. You know what these geriatrics can be like, Mr Thrax. Once we have detoxed him he'll be able to lead a more or less normal life ... well, his normal.
Call me Thrax.
That's a relief, Matron.

I hope no one tries to detox me however. Fags and booze are about my only form of sustenance.
(Thrax) And mine. Welcome back, young man. Have you defeated those FUCKING LOBSTERS?
... back again
You have a cat nap and the staff take over. Really! When I was admitted 'they' said certain procedures might be intrusive, but this is taking things a little too far. Should you ever be bludgeoned into detox, Thrax, don't believe a word of what 'they' say. For example: Trusted medical staff suggest that and MRI, or similar, could be benefical to their diagnostic appreciation. Fine. My natural suspicions were aroused when 'they' strapped me into a tube, closed a little glass door on the front and activated the control mechanism. Now, I'm fully aware that drying out the patient is one of the aims of this facility, but to con a patient into entering an industrial spin dryer under the pretext of taking care of him is indefensible.
I'm off outside for a dram and a drag. See you later.
Intro Number One
Is, of course, Boogie Wonderland by Earth, Wind and Fire.
Intro Number 5
- is "Celia" by Simon and Garfunkel, or did everybody already know that?
numbers up
[Botherer]Earth, Wind and Fire is right
[Kim]Simon and Garfunkel also right
Seeing as it has been up a couple of days since the original post, no consecutive posts rules is waived (1, 5 and 6 have been guessed.)Can you finish it off?
intros
3. The Temptations - Just My Imagination (Running Away with Me)
"one answer...
8. Cornershop - Brim Full of Asha
... per post"
9. Prodigy - Firestarter
10. Weather With You - Crowded House
[Juxtpose & Darren]all right ;)
which leaves 2. Little Richard - Good Golly Miss Molly, 4. Nancy and Frank Sinatra - Somethin Stupid, 7. Keane - Everybody's Changing

...and now back to normal chat.

Thank goodness. I hate all that new-fangled pope music, I think it's called.
too late
[Inkspot] I actually got number 2 but had to run off for a few hours so didn't post. It is a standard (but thumpy) 12 bar blues, however, so I wasn't completely sure. The style pins it down to late 50s though. And of course I recognized number 10 within, oh, a note or two (it was all over the radios in Aus in the early 90s).
Crowded House
[flerdle] They were New Zealanders, though, weren't they? I thought Australians were vehemently 100% absolutely totally opposed to all things which emanate from New Zealand, and then some.
On checking Wikipedia, it seems only 1/3 of Crowded House was from New Zealand. This probably explains why Australians gave them a chance.
it's stereotype time!!!
[Darren] No, not at all. A New Zealander would be far more insulted to be called an Australian than an Australian would a New Zealander - they'd probably just laugh at you; don't be stuuuuupid!

Australians tend to coopt a lot of (originally) NZ stuff, if it/they get famous eg Phar Lap, Fred Hollows, Crowded House, Russell Crowe... In sports, they are 'our' worst enemies, but otherwise are generally just given a hard time because we actually don't mind them - sibling rivalry and all that. New Zealand is even more at the @rse-end of the world than Australia and it's rather small, so they tend to feel like they're in Australia's shadow most of the time and perhaps they have 'something to prove', or at least they need to differentiate themselves from big, bossy, boorish Australia(ns). Australians tend to think New Zealand is cold, wet and just that little bit dull...

When the states of Australia joined to become 'Australia' there were noises made to get New Zealand included too (a reasonable idea) but the New Zealanders would have none of that. In the past the economy was better in Australia so a lot of New Zealanders moved. Migration has recently been tending the other way. About 350,000 New Zealand citizens (out of 4 million or so) live in Australia and around 60,000 Australians (out of 20 million) live in New Zealand. Political and economic ties are very close.

Their accent is a bit weird, though, and they are said to have a thing for sheep.

NZspeak
For example, pigs. These are wooden or plastic spring clips used for hanging out the washing.
[flerdle] I got my impressions of the relationship between Australians and New Zealanders by dating a girl from New Zealand for some time. She was a pathologist and said "cadaver" in a very strange way.
NZ Speak
[Rosie] And bits. Wagers on an event's outcome. There's a game here somewhere.
more daq is back
A little bit of a long time ago some rash young people spurred on by evil edna popped along to a Beeb site Celebdaq and set up some starry eyed accounts and formed the Celebrity Mornington Crescent League. But since its hay day last year many players taken that long stretched limo to secluded island of paradise. We are now down to five.

For those like playing here are a couple of addresses to help
MSN Group Ultimates for information on dividends. It is still guess work but every little helps. This week I chose Gavin Henson for best dividend yeild.
Fancy some competition to spice up your play? The Discworld Leagues are back. One of my accounts (Cleddau) is in the Assasssins Guild.

celebdantiquing
[Inkspot] I got busy. And now my account is lapsed. Sorry. *cackle*
I'm probably being dumb here
But I've just signed up for Celebdaq and can't work out how to join the mini league. Help?
(Darren) I'm a little puzzled. Was it something like "G'day-ver"? Did she have six-appeal? Well, obviously, I suppose. :-)
[Botherer]Good to see you join up, if you leave your ID number here it will be added as soon after.
[Rosie] It was "kerdaaaaver," and she always insisted that everyone in NZ spoke like that.
Celebdaq ID
3859547

Thanks Inkspot!
Hiding behind the sofa from evil edna
Botherer you are in, welcome. You should appear there very soon. The other players you may not recognise from their alias are Graham III as ffish and gil as sigmundfreud. Dujon and blamelewis you know from around the boards.
For tips and general chit chat visit MSN Group CelebdaqBasements and Ultimates for the stats. There are plenty of experienced players out there willing to help with any query. Enjoy the game.
Call me Thrax
Ah yes, I remember Celebdaq. Had a stab at it, but I was completely utterly hopeless. :( I just don't follow the celebrity-driven media closely enough I fear. I think I'm not in touch with the zeitgeist of modern times, which seems to have an obsessive fascination with the lives of the "great and good". It just passes me by and makes no impression.

Although, Rosie, I - very much like yerself - AM aware that many celebs are known to have succumbed to near-fatal cases of Lobsteriscimusbummakissimus. Thankfully mine has cleared up, after successful treatment involving industrial pliers and dyson vacuum, leaving me feeling refreshed and absolutely fantastic. I trust you are in similarly rude health, my friend?
(Thrax) Very rude, as all are aware. The only lobsterish incident in my life occurred in about 1952 when I was unable to read the name of a steam loco across a couple of platforms. The place of course was Charing Crustacean (geddit). Yes, it really was. So four-eyes from an early age, not a great burden.
Sofas
Did you buy your sofa from Sofa King, Inkspot? You know, the firm which advertises as "Sofa King - Good".
I also see, Inkspot, that Dr Q+ is re-entering the fray. With the inclusion of Botherer, my reincarnation and the foibles of the market ... let the battle commence. Not that it ever went away and, anyway, ffish has been on the heavy side of the scales for yonks. I enjoy the play in the Conference but the higher leagues are, at this point in time, a bit beyond me.
Welcome, Botherer, test your skills against idiots like me. It's silly, it's stupid and, to be honest, a waste of cyberspace.
Call me Thrax
"Charing Crustacean"! *groan* Ouch! A pun like that really aches at this time of morning, Rosie. Ha ha! It's the way ye tell 'em! Which reminds me... anyone else here enjoyed those late night shows on Radio 4 in which Pauline McLynne has been exploring the history of Irish comedy? Some marvellous quotes in it. One of my faves was from Dave Allen, in which he advised that you must never expect a sensible reply if asking for directions in Ireland, as you're likely to be told: "You want to get to there d'ye? Well, ye certainly don't want to start from here! Start from way over there - it's nearer." Ha ha ha. Just brilliant!

*reads Dujon's "Sofa King - Good" quip* That reminds me of a wee gag of my own from my childhood days. I forget who was the recipient, I recall only the gag, but someone invited it by saying to me, "I'm from Suffolk myself," to which, naturally, I replied, "yes, Suffolk yourself." See? I'm pure evil.

I have however just bought a new sofa - well, a sofabed, which I intend to plonk here in my study for when visitors, er, visit. £25 it cost me. The lady upstairs is clearing out a load of unwanted furniture and stuff for next-to-nothing since she won £400,000 on the Lottery and intends to move out at the end of May. Alas however, the lift is broken at the moment and so I can't get the thing down from her floor to mine until an essential component arrives from Deutschland.

I'm sure this is all frightfully dull for you all. Think I'll wind up here for now.

:) Huzzaah!
[Inkspot] You are a gentleman and a scholar.
A gentleman and a scholar
Oh, that's 0.67 of a Pink Panther.
That's a Pink Pant, more or less.
[penelope]That's a little brief - and a mental picture that I shall immediately put to on side.
Inkspot] Actually, there was a player between it and the goal, so it was onside anyway.
Offside rule
(Irouléguy) There have to be two players, or at least one and a half.
*mimes*
Hmmmm
[CdM] You're trying to get out of a box?
I thought the penalty box was for hockey... or was that prison?
motorway madness
Legoland is great when you get there the only problem is other drivers on the M4. Yesterday there were three accidents on different sections between Hugerford and Slough adding an hour onto the travelling. I am no saint when it comes to motorway driving, recklesly driving over the limit at an average of just under 75mph, but at I abide by lane discipline, overtake; then back to the inside lane. There were just so mannt middle lane dawdlers. They really are the bane of my driving life. Squatting in the middle lane they are a hazard they can be like their own personal mobile roadblock as other drivers attach themselves closely to the bumper. A further irritation of the most blinkered of these drivers is the way they come to a slow moving vehicle in the middle lane then hypnotized staying behind rather than overtake. When will they get it into their skulls that the second and third lanes are for overtaking it is not, inside lane = slow lane and outside lane = fast lane.
[Inkspot] Abso-bloody-lutely. I undertake middle-land dawdlers if I can do it without speeding. I know it's evil, but they have been told time and time again. Pffft.
Hogging the middle lane is unacceptable, but I have to say I don't think I've ever seen anyone hogging the middle land whilst driving at under 70mph. Given that no-one is allowed to go over 70mph, they are therefore not blocking anybody.
*taps the deja-vuometer - needle rises sharply*
[Breadmaster] Oh I have. How come there is space for me to go at 70mph in Lane 1 if he/she or it is going at 65mph in Lane 2? Because everyone else in Lane One has pulled ahead (at a legal speed) of the sluggish Lane Two-er, that's why. Exactly how much motorway driving do you do?
Well, not so much these days, admittedly. Perhaps there are more slow middle lane hoggers than there used to be!
*resists the temptation to say what speed I routinely cruise at*
In the old Polo I use for work I return via M4 J15/J15 at a steady pace just under 60, the car seems comfortable with this - there being a noise barrier somewhere round 70.
Thankfully I missed this latest offering from ITV Twelve gorgeous celebrity singletons are thrown together on a fantasy island in ITV1’s star studded search for love, Celebrity Love Island. The end of the Dyke era seems to have given the beeb a small kick up the backside. Unfortunately Ofcom seem to want more of this low quality 'entertainment' in allowing ITV to dump anything that is done elsewhere eg news, childrens progs.
Middle lane hogs
I find that middle lane hogs are almost invariably travelling at no more than 60, actually. Usually as they pass under gantries which rather expensively dictate 'DON'T HOG THE MIDDLE LANE'. Given my penchant for grotesquely illegal (but not dangerous, dammit; how is 100-120 on a dry, empty road, in a well-maintained car designed for over 145, with a healthy, sober, attentive driver, more dangerous than 70?) speeds, I also regularly experience the upper class of lane hog - those that have ascended to the 'fast' lane; to be fair, they're generally only there because of people in the middle lane and will often move when a quarter of a mile gap (ie the space required to pull over and let me pass without slowing for the next hog) avails itself. (I am aware that my driving habits are both vastly illegal and morally reprehensible to some people. I continue to hold my constantly clean license and undamaged person+car as evidence that I am not the murderer our illustrious government would have everyone believe)

The most hate-inducing section of road for me is the newly re-opened Thelwall Viaduct, though, which often sees three of the four lanes occupied by lorries and hoggers, for some reason. It even expands to five lanes for filtering off, so it's not (well, shouldn't be) that.

I'm going on holiday tomorrow evening, for two weeks. Therefore, my DSL will fall over some time on Thursday.

Apologies for the cross posting.

This is really just a last minute round-up for anyone who may want to become involved in an MC event organised for this weekend (the 21st of May).

Last year, a group of regular MC players got together to organise a live game or two, loosely presented in the format of ISIHAC. 17 folks attended ‘ISIHAC2 – This time it’s Unprofessional’. It was so much fun that an instant decision for the event to be repeated.

This years event has been entitled ‘That Went Off Very Well’ and is to be held at Brownsover Hall in Rugby. Bedrooms cost £35 and I am reliably informed that there are still some available, although we are expecting a bigger crowd this year.

On Saturday evening (from about 7.30pm) we will be playing ISIHAC games such as New Definitions, Sound Charades and Mornington C with suitable breaks for beer and refreshments. Piano is being provided by Colin Sell soundalike, JLE. Silliness will be followed by a cabaret including songs specifically written for the occasion and free-for-all gaming.

It may be too late for you to attend, but all the same I thought I would post this in the hope that if there were any players who suddenly found themselves free this weekend would have the opportunity to have an extravagant sufficiency of fun in pleasurable surroundings amongst exuberant and entertaining company.

If you are interested in attending, email me here for all details. There are some half empty cars coming up from London, and I can give lifts from Rugby Train Station.

If you are unable to attend because you just live too far away or wouldn’t miss Eurovision for the world, you can still contribute. Email me at the address above and I’ll send you a programme of the games we are playing. If you have any suggestions for new definitions, chat-up-lines likely to be heard at Westminster or songs suitable for undertakers and morticians, I’ll be very happy to read out your contribution “here is one sent in by…” style.

Once again, apologies for interrupting programming. Normal Service will now be resumed.
Middle Lane Hogs
My favourite tactic with these fools is to drive up reasonably close to them in the inside lane, indicate out and overtake. Once past them I indicate back in to the inside lane and then slow down until they pass me. Repeat until they get the hint or I get bored.
MLH's
(Botherer) Why do they need to get the hint? You've already overtaken him and have no need to concern yourself with him any more. Just drive on, maybe with a brief profanity. All you're doing is raising your blood pressure, not his. He'll just think you're a bit mad, that is if he sees you at all.
Songs for undertakers
Botherer could have a go at Meatloaf's Objects in the rearview mirror may appear closer than they are.
- controversial -
Hurrah a road debate ! I like the sound of NIK's driving. I would also say that Inkspot is very correct to travel that section of teh M4 slowly as they have just pout speed cameras calibrated at about 74mph on it (J14-16) - or at least said that on the news, which is a similar effect.....
Anyone who is of teh opinion that anyone driving over 70 is a lunatic or whatever is really the kind of person that I shouldnt really even start talking to about this because, frankly and honestly, I couldn't give a toss about their opinions on this matter and would fervently hope never to have to be a passengger in their car or have them in mine. I drive at about 90 most of teh time, occasionally creeping up to about 110 for brief periods or dropping to 70 if the road is clear. I will generally sit in outside or middle lanes and will always pull over to middle lane if someone is approaching me fast and I can easily - otherwise I will wait until three is a gap I can do this safely then pull out immediately behind them (well, maybe not IMMEDIATELY) If they approach really close and hassle me, especially with an indicator on, or in any way before I have had a chance to let them get past politely then I do not alwyas pull out - sometimes I will sit there just to piss them off, sometimes I will accelerate, somketimes I will touch my brakelights (though not brake) - I will let them past but not necessarily straight away. F*ck em. Similarly when I approach someone from behind I give thme plenty of chance to pull out of my way. If they don't then I will get a bit closer. Sometimes I undertake - I have no problem with doing this at all if there is space. If I am in middle lane I do not always pull aside. If I am in middle lane that normally means that there is no-one in fast lane and so road is quite clear - however I am normally going faster than someone in the 'slow' lane. If someone comes up hard behind me wanting to get past, then my thinking is that they can bloody well overtake me by using the space available on my right. I dont see why anyone has a problem with people not going as fast as them in teh middle lane when there is another lane available. Fast lane slow drivers I accept are a ROYAL PAIN IN THE ASS. Middle lane - so what ? I like botherers circling technique though. :o)
In Italy the other week I LOVE the way they drive on the Mways. Screaming up fast to within inches and then overtaking at last second. Everyone seems happy with it. I just love the sheer recklessness of it.
typos
schmypos - sorry
Roads here are nice. And smooth. And straight, mostly. And fast. Everyone goes fast. Every second time we go to Muscat (approx 240km each way - about once every two weeks) there's at least one rather nasty looking accident. Sometimes it's a bit hard to see what type of car it (formerly) was.
what type of car.....?
flerdle] is that because you are going by so fast ?
Not in an Echo.
[St D] So doesn't the fact that something's illegal bother you at all?
I didn't mean that to sound confrontational, by the way - but I am genuinely puzzled because I'd have thought that most people would at least have some scruples about breaking the law. But in this subject it seems not!
Motoring
As if I didn't hear all this boy-racer bollocks 40 yrs ago. Driving manners and attitudes have improved considerably over the decades but there are clearly some that this welcome cultural change has yet to reach.
Little Sir
[flerdle] My daughter drives an Echo, though the two door hatch rather than the booted four door. I love the optically jiggered read-outs. Whilst I have not driven the little beast, it must make refocussing of the eyes much easier/faster/safer than the conventional system.
Hmm, *thinks*, I hope I haven't said this before somewhere.
Manners
It's really nice to read opinions like "Driving manners and attitudes have improved considerably over the decades" since one the whole people tend only to express their perception of degradation. Thanks Rosie.

[Bm] And there was me thinking the law tends to reacts to the (changing) concensus as what constitutes unscrupulous behaviour, and not the other way round.

[rab] Yes, laws change to reflect what people think is acceptable, but I would still have thought it unusual for people simply to ignore laws that they don't like with, apparently, it not even occurring to them that the fact that something is illegal is in itself a reason not to do it. It seems that motoring laws are the big exception. But why is this? Or alternatively, am I mistaken in thinking that most people are basically law-abiding in the first place? In which case, what's the point of having laws at all?
Ooof. Big questions! And having typed out a long passage, and deleted it again, I realise I need to think about them some more. Hopefully someone else will get there first.
[Bm] Well, no, I don't think the fact of something being illegal has the slightest moral force at all, in any circumstances. Speed limits aren't the only example of laws being ignored. Ask any tradesman if he'll give a discount for cash -- the discount is coming straight out of the VATman's take, and everyone involved knows that.
good viewing
[Dujon] Yes. I found it surprisingly easy to get used to. For those who don't know, the speedo and other instruments aren't directly in front of the driver, they're on top of the middle of the dashboard. Apparently it makes it easier and cheaper to manufacture both left and right hand drive setups. It's also that bit further away, which means less and quicker focussing, and the fact that it is high up and sideways means that you're not looking down so much, preserving more peripheral vision and road awareness. It was actually more difficult and disturbing to get used to the "old way" than this new setup, when I had to switch back last year for a while. Oh, and our car only has cooling, not heating as in the picture :-)

[laws] Of course people ignore laws they don't like - laws mean nothing much if it stops you from doing what you want, or if it's a bit too inconvenient, especially if you're not likely to get caught. Littering, speeding, copyright, tax... Perhaps some people see the speed laws as stupid or irrelevent in certain conditions, and they don't see there being much in the way of consequences if they break them (since they are of course excellent drivers, and they'll never crash or be taken out by other people), so it's ok to go as fast as they feel is necessary, whatever the laws say.

Note, I am NOT saying that all laws are sensible, and this is a GUESS at a reason for some people's behaviour, and it is probably a question that needs careful analysis of the data ;-) -- but I don't have time or energy to look at it now.

[Raak] Well put.
mini-rant.
and of course, those "it"s should be "they"s etc etc in the second paragraph. Yes, I'm a bad girl for constantly getting things like this in my posts in these places wrong, and I'd edit it if I could, but if you want perfect copy, just go somewhere else. It's not through ignorance, just so y'know, just difficulty expressing myself clearly all at once. In person, I can't argue my way out of a wet paper bag, so in print I'm doing remarkably well, considering, even if I take too long :-)
law
BM] It doesn't bother me in the slightest. Not a jot. As to law...well. I paid a Congestion Charge recently and then got a penalty notice. I had put my number plate in wrong by one digit. All teh papers said "Under the law you have no leg to stand on whatsoever in this case" It was made quite clear under what circumstances it was possible to contest the fine under the law. I thought I had a pretty good case really as it was blindingly obvious to anyone looking that I had attempted to pay for my vehicle and made and honest mistake. Under the LAW it was just tough. So I shut up and paid the extra £50 on top of the £5 I had paid that morning. SO......yesterday, in the Guardian, there is a short article about a ruling by Justice Burnton, finding in favour of Lady Walmsley who had undergone EXACTLY the same situation as me and had decided to appeal, even though it was specifically laid out in LAW that she had no redress. "The Law," found his honour, "was an ass." It often is.
As to whether you should worry too much about legality or illegality of speeding or indeed any other thing that is illegal - its an incredibly liberating moment when you realise that you are an adult and capable of making judgements and decisions yourself.
I realise that this case is not in UK but in Dubai there is a british woman in prison for posessing a banned substance on arrival because it was in her bloodstream (I think it was codeine) I mean - sheeeesh. That's illegal...but honestly (or does your legal/illegal comment only apply to laws in UK BM ?)
Rosie] if your boy racer comment was levelled at me in any way I take great exception to it and would point out that you seem to be stepping down into the lowly territory of insults, which I too am quite good at. I am a very polite and considerate driver and do not drive along suburban residential streets spinning my tyres with my radio booming. I just like to drive and when conditions allow I will do so quickly.
baroness walmsley
(and she got her plate wrong by THREE digits. I had ONE out. ONE. My Law Professor is writing a letter to appeal it. :o)
rosie] maybe i can drive you to phil's pub on sunday ? ;o]
Boy racers
(st d) You may well be a polite and considerate driver; I believe you. But the general tone of your contribution doesn't give that impression, I have to say. Hence my reaction. Sorry. (rab, Breadmaster) Generally, laws reflect what society finds unacceptable, e.g. theft, assault etc. But sometimes society needs pushing in a particular direction by the introduction of a regulation, for example the drink-drive laws. When they were introduced in 1967 there was widespread opposition, but today nobody seriously argues that one should be allowed to drive pissed and some people rather proudly state they will not drink at all before driving, which is however just a bit too smug.
Call me Thrax.
*Looks rather nervous* Oooh ah, um. I'm not sure if I can contribute much to this colourful debate. Errr... indeed, I'd fancied to wander in merely and say hi to all and ask what's new and interesting/joyful or tearful in everybody's lives - small talk I suppose - but I confess I think I've trodden in something over my depth here.

I don't drive, y'see. Never have, never will. I stare bemused at Jeremy Clarkson and the lad from Class 4C, of an evening's viewing of Top Gear, thinking: It's only cars, boys. Don't get so worked up and passionate about 'em. If they all vanished in a puff of smoke tomorrow, you could still travel by use of your god-given limbs as far as the lavatory, and I've known many who can't But they do AMUSE me, the way they talk as if cars were somehow more critical to our existence than oxygen, water and sunlight. But - and I suppose I have now thought of some connection - I agree with your point about Drink-driving Law, Rosie. As a child, I went to school with one or two kids who could no longer walk, and never would, because they had been run down by people whose self-inflated reliance upon their automobiles had far outgrown their observance of public responsibility - ie. driving pissed.

It has, I do confess, given me a very coloured perspective on the whole thing - perhaps also because I too am similarly physically impaired as some of my former schoolmates(though for different reasons) - and I've developed quite an extreme intolerance for anyone who doesn't adhere to the very strictest discipline while moving around a few tonnes of solid, reinforced metal at considerable speed in the near vicinity of other sentient life. Maybe that makes me sound self-righteous and pious, but I'd rather be both of those things than sort of person who'd get behind the wheel after a few on the grounds that to walk home or get a taxi would be "inconvenient".
[Raak and St D] Well, you can't get clearer than that, and I'm not sure what to say to it other than that I'm surprised, and I would have thought such an attitude would have been highly unusual, but perhaps I'm wrong.
[Rosie] I agree with everything you say here. And I'd add that in my view - and, I would have thought, perhaps wrongly, in the view of most people - there are of course many laws that are probably unjust or require altering in some way, but the way to deal with that is to lobby to have the law changed, not simply to ignore the law while it is on the statute books. To take a wildly different example, it is illegal for an RE teacher (or indeed any teacher) to teach their students about Wicca and neo-paganism. In fact it is illegal for a teacher even to mention these religions to pupils. I think that that is a ludicrous law. But in the unlikely (though, horribly, not impossible) situation of my becoming an RE teacher, I would obey that law whilst lobbying to have it changed. That's not to say I think all laws should be mindlessly obeyed all the time, but I do think that there should be some fairly hefty justification for breaking a law, certainly more than the fact that it is inconvenient to obey it.
boy racer
Rosie] fair enough - I reread it and it does come across a tad cavalier. But, I stick by it though should maybe apologise for the tone. Maybe I should reexpress it -
I love driving and on teh Motorway will generally drive over the, in my view, archaic, draconian and roundly ignored 70 limit.
I greatly dislike those that I consider to be drivers who do not have good motorway etiquette. For me this generally means not screaming up and hanging on someone's bumper until they move out of the way. Also it means pulling aside to let a car that is evidently wishing to drive faster by, unless of course you (or they) are in a fast moving queue anyway. Of course this should only be expected when there is a suitable gap to pull into. If there is a car in front of me that seesm to be refusing to move for no good reason then after a good time I will creep slowly closer then drop back and repeat. I love driving on motorways and am at all times relaxed and the only time I have ever gotten really annoyed whilst driving is when stuck in a jam and late for a plane. I generally tend towards letting people in to a queue in front of me rather than not. It never ceases to amaze me how petty people will be about not letting you into a queue and how angry they will get that you are actually going in front of them in a merging traffic situation or similar. When I see a motorbike approaching will always try to create space for them. Heck. I love driving. Its great. Its great to get little waves of appreciation from bikes shooting past at 120 or flashes from trucks or whatever. I get very annoyed when people who you have stopped to let past do not smile or nod or wave. This is very ignorant. I like smiling and nodding and waving at people.
BM] in the Wicca/RE situation you would be foolish to break the law because it could easily be used against you - though would provide an inteersting test case for teh law. As to having to have sreally strong justifications to break a law, well I am not exactly a murdere or anything, but I break the speed limit (as does everyone) and will occasionally smoke a joint or something. I don't care that its illegal. I really don't. As for traffic law violations, I guess the blasé attitude most people have is because you don't end up with a criminal record for breaking the speed limit. (And please don't say "ah yes but you do if you end up killing someone" because that would be very boring.)
All in the eye of the beholder
[Rosie] Not drinking *at all* before you drive is more or less the expected behaviour in this country, so to me there would be no smugness at all in saying such a thing. Hypocricy, possibly, for I'm sure not all who say it adhere to it, but that's a different matter. (I think the actual limit for how much alcohol you're allowed to have in your blood stream is 0.2 promille.)
[Laws] I used to go to work by bike, when I lived and worked in different places to where I live and work now. The bike lane through town was very heavily used during rush hour, and there would always be a few people who would take short-cuts, on the wrong side of the road or on no-biking lanes. I used to ponder over why that made me so annoyed, and realised that it was because the people who do that obviously think that they are worth more than the rest of us. If *everybody* broke *every* law they didn't feel like keeping, chaos and worse would ensue, and very few people think that would be a good idea (including those who blithely ignore speed limits or bike against the flow of traffic, forcing others out of the way). So obviously, only a few people are allowed to do that, because they, and their time, are worth so much more than those of the rest of us. Sorry, I don't buy that. Breadmaster speaks for me, too. Oh, and I also don't drive and don't expect I ever will (I tried to learn once upon a time, and failed. I did learn to fly a glider though, which is much more fun anyway).
I'm also a natural born goody-goody, so I tend to side with Breadmaster too.
I speed. Sometimes. But I also shout at school-run mothers who block the road by parking on the yellow zig-zags, then remove their children from their car seats straight into the road instead of onto the pavement.
I have very little respect for the law per se at all. OTOH I make up for this by having a very highly-developed sense of what is right which I am pretty unbending in following. The reason the Law does not spend much of its time making a pleasant tinkling sound as it breaks in my presence is - surprisingly - because AFAICS on the whole, the Law and What Is Right (in my opinion) are very much congruent.
I do think that surprising because I really think English Law is an ass. So it must obviously get more right than I usually credit it for.
School Run Mums
Those poor kids! Strapped into cars and fussed over by Mother Goose as they are transported from one ultra-safe environment to another. I walked to school in all weathers (just over half a mile) from the age of 5 but for a couple of years I had to go with the Big Girl Next Door. She was 7. Kids these days have no chance to climb trees, get a "bootful" from the pond, cope with falling over, learn to cross the road or not talk to that funny-looking man. I am extremely grateful I was born in 1942 and not 1992 (say).
Speed limits
(st d) The 70 limit isn't archaic and certainly not draconian. You are taking things too literally. It's there to stop people doing much over 85. A higher limit would lead to everyone going faster still and there'd be a few more accidents. 70 is fast enough, anyway. 50 miles at 70 mph takes 43 minutes, at 85 mph 35 minutes, but on the M25 several hours. You just like driving fast; so do I. But it's a bit naughty, and a bit pointless. :-)
[st d] I thought you had your tongue well and truly planted in your cheek when you wrote your original motorway exposé. Thanks for your clarification - it was your statement "I drive at about 90 most of teh time, occasionally creeping up to about 110 for brief periods or dropping to 70 if the road is clear." that led to my interpretation. In my judgement there is nothing wrong with speed itself, it's where and how and by whom it is used. These days I tend to treat everyone else on the road as incompetent, the idea being to keep alert to the fact that I am controlling a missile of significant mass and an error made by someone else could lead to an early demise - mine.
Of course we are all good drivers, of course we all have superb reactions and car control skills. Naturally all our cars are all in tip-top condition and handle like an F1 top ten machine. If you believe all that then you're a cylinder short of a block. Some of this comes from bitter experience and these days I stick to the speed limit (I cannot afford to get caught) even though there are places where said limits are really silly. Don't get me wrong, I was no angel in my younger days, I'm just thankful still to be here.
By the way, give me a bullet with wheels that will handle, a winding road and no traffic (ha!) and I'll be in seventh heaven. ;-)
winding roads and no traffic
[Dujon] That would be Lincolnshire (on England's east coast) then, which has one of the highest rates of road deaths in the country. Everyone who likes going fast, especially the motorcyclists, make that mistake. When I was a reporter, I attended so many inquests into the deaths of people who make exactly the same mistake, and over-cook it on corners just as a tractor, or a pensioner, pulls out of a farm gateway. If you're going to speed, please do it on motorways.
Deathwish
(pen) So it's true, then. They say The Fens are even worse, but all sorts of things are said about The Fens and its inhabitants.
"Always be able to stop within the distance you can see"
There is no such thing as a winding road with no traffic. Even if there is no traffic, you can't see that there's no traffic.
Ah so.
[penelope, Raak] Indeed. Hence my 'ha'. Hill climbing is a great way to scratch that itch, but the inital costs are a bit steep these days with all the safety considerations. So I now confine myself to being an old plodder, ever alert to inebriates and idiots. I got rid of my clubman style machine a few years ago and puddle around in a family hatch at present. Chances are that my reactions are not as good as they used to be anyway and there's no way I'm going to test out that assumption on a public road.
Monaco may be the most glamorous Grand Prix but one of least watchable with very little to no overtaking. But persistance by the two Williams drivers finally paid off, despite the best efforts of Alonso to cheat; and I see team orders still apply at Ferrari.

Dujon reaches the top of Celebrity Mornington Crescent as DrQ returns to make it seven. I am glad ITV pulled the rug from under Celeb Wrestling and hope the the same will happen to their Celeb Love Island. Not long now till Big Brother6. I think it is looking ever increasingly like Greg Dyke leaving was one of the best things to happen to the BBC programming.

[Inkspot] It's a few years since I last watched a Monaco Grand Prix (it's the time difference, even if it is televised here) but even then I thought that the latest F1 machines have so rapid acceleration and deceleration rates that they have effectively outgrown the circuit as a competitive venue. Not that I think it will be taken off the schedule, there's probably too much money involved. Even in the days of Moss, Fangio, Brabham, Clarke and their ilk it wasn't the easiest place to navigate around a rival. It must be terrifying these days.
Greg Dyke
(Inkspot) Agreed. Good result, but wrong reason nevertheless.
Didn't we have a loverly time ...
For those that are remotely interested - Rugby II/Ratby I was a roaring success. there's a taste of some of the happenings in the Pilg Game in Orange MC.
[Rosie] So sorry you couldn't make it. Understandable. I had no idea you had pulled out and was still checking with Reception for your arrival by the time the G&T's were served ... :-)
all sorts
chalk] lovely to meet you - thanks for organising it all. Hope you got home safely. I did, then had a marvellous power snooze.
Rosie] I am not sure I agree on your "there's no point to driving fast". When I drive up to Wales to see my Mum - normally for teh weekend, the AA site tells me that that journey should take me 4h47minutes. I can do it in under 3h30minutes, including a petrolk stop. This is one hell of a difference.
Dujon] Funnily enough that wasn't tongue in cheek. If the road has cars on it I will generally try to get in front of as many as I can. This may seem like me being an idiot fast driver, but actually its because I feel safer this way - if I am overtaking I tend to just keep going because people rarely drive with a big gap between each other so I will just plow on past until either the traffis clears or there is a big gap on my left to pull over into if I feel like it. If the road is very empty indeed I will generally slow down considerably.
Raak/winding roads] There is actually an incredibly beautiful stretch of road in the alps, east of Grenoble, on the way up to Les 2 Alpes which is wondoing and yet you know is clear or not. I used to go out with a girl from there and remember being absolutely terrified once when she started overtaking all teh tourist traffic on blind corners, where the left hand side of teh road dropped off hundreds of metres as teh road was cvarved into the side of a valley, hence the twists. She assured me it was okay, and the next time we drove it she showed me that there is a point as you come onto that stretch where you can see the entire road on your left carved along the valley side, for a very long stretch, and can see any cars that are on it. There being no roads off this long stretch, when you round teh valley side and can suddenly no lonegr see around the corners, you nonetheless know that there is no traffic coming the other way. Its great if you know it, but must be scary for the tourists being overtaken by teh locals as they edge slowly along gawping at the breathtaking scenery.
Wheeeee
As you might expect of me - I'm on the side of driving as fast as is sensible given the road and conditions, regardless of the speed limit on that stretch of road. This may well mean going considerably slower than the advised limit if conditions dictate. I have no qualms about breaking the law by driving at 90-odd (or more) on a good clear motorway, agreeing with those that think that 70mph on a motorway in reasonable weather conditions is a farcically low limit. Remember that's just 10mph faster than you are allowed to go on a single track winding country lane.
Rugbypilg
(Chalky) OK :-) Wish I'd been there.
pilg
rosie] Samantha told me that she had been looking forward to seeing you playig with your bone , and was most disappointed not top have a chance to blow it herself.
Slide cream
(st d) V. Good. I am tickled. I hope she realises that "Trombonists Do It In Seven Positions", as they say. Fairly routine stuff for her, no doubt. My nextdoor neighbour is called Samantha, precisely 28 years younger than me and at present heavily pregnant, not through any action on my part, which in the long term is probably a good thing.
rab'll love this...
*Cross Posted* - and a day later than usual as I was away from my inbox yesterday.
Dear I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue Mailing List Member, We bring you news of a recording of the programme that is taking place at the close of this year's Edinburgh Festival on Monday 29th August (Bank Holiday Monday) at around 6.30pm at the Pleasance Grand. It's a single recording (normally we record two programmes) so the whole event should last around an hour and a half. Tickets go on sale at the Edinburgh Fringe Box Office from Thursday 9th June. They are priced at £7 each. The venue seats 700 so there won't quite as many tickets available as for recent recordings. Again, you'll need to book early to secure a ticket. The Fringe Box Office telephone number is 0131 226 0000 and the website address is www.edfringe.com If this show is of interest, I doubt you'll be able to get through before 9th June, so make a note in the diary to call on Thursday 9th June.
Law Abiding
BM] Just to carry on this discussion about law - as it is quite interesting - If the govt brings in ID Cards, and makes it compulsory to carry them, then would you think that people would carry the card only because of "practical" reasons, or do you think that people would feel a moral obligation to do so, as it was law ? Also I would imagine that there would be a large group of people who would feel a moral obligation to NOT carry the new cards, in order to register their opposition to the new law. How would these people figure ?
Living, as I do, 15 minutes walk from the Fringe Box office, I shall attempt to buy them in person on Thursday 9th rather than listen to an engaged tone for 3/4 hour. Wish me luck.
Except that, allegedly, the box office doesn't open until the following Monday. I'll pop into the society office sometime and ask them...
[St D] Well, I would feel a moral obligation to carry them as it would be the law, but clearly I don't know how widespread such a view would be. For example, in New Zealand it is illegal to drive without having your driving licence on you, so I always had it with me even though there was no "practical" advantage to this. As for the conscientious objectors, I personally don't think their position would be defensible. To my mind it is justifiable to break a law if doing so would bring about more good or cause less harm than keeping the law. But in this case, following the ID card law would obviously do no harm - it would not harm anyone if an opponent of the law did carry their card, and it would benefit no-one for them not to carry it, other than to register their protest at the law. But they can register that protest just as effectively whilst obeying it, which surely means that there is no moral argument for breaking the law, and I would like to think that most people would agree that in such a case one should obey the law rather than break it. I hadn't imagined that there would be people who would break such a law purely because they oppose it, but I don't really understand this mentality that some people seem to have that civil disobedience is the best way to change the law. They seem to think that if you personally don't agree with a law then that gives you carte blanche to break it. Often when they are interviewed on TV they make vague references to "democracy", as if that entailed libertarianism.
ID Cards and the law
(Breadmaster) Driving licences are for people who are permitted to drive. ID cards are for people who are permitted to . . . . . . (fill in as appropriate). Why should I have to carry an ID card everywhere. After all, I know who I am. Disobeying the law while harming no-one else is a very good way to get the law changed.
[Bm] What do you propose as a means to change the law? In the case of ID cards, what would appear to be a law which is unproven to fulful its primary stated purpose (combatting terrorism) and which is proposed to have its costs bourne by the unwilling individual?
Sorry, that second thing wasn't a question. I'm not sure it even qualifies as a sentence...
[Rosie] I don't see why disobeying the law, in an example such as this, would be any more effective at changing the law than not disobeying it. Why would this be more effective than writing to your MP, going on a march, and all the other legitimate means that we have? Surely in the absence of any other considerations, one should obey the law, and so if disobeying it would not achieve anything, as I doubt that it would in this case, one should obey it.
[rab] Wouldn't it make more sense to say that if the law is indeed ineffective as well as burdensome, that is an argument for changing it, not for disobeying it, and if it does indeed prove counter-productive, the government would change it themselves irrespective of whether people disobey it or not?
Yes but the question I asked was "What do you propose as a means to change the law?" which was not intended as an argument to disobey it. It was a question asking, erm, how you would go about getting a law you didn't like changed. I think.
BM] The poll tax comes to mind, as a law which was eventually abolished because so many people broke it.
(BM) The best strategy for someone who doesn't like the idea of ID cards (to the exclusion of all other considerations) would have been to vote for the Tories. Whatever their manifold defects they do not have the authoritarian frame of mind of New Labour. If they'd got in, of course, the taste of power may well have changed that - it happens with all governments and they need to be constantly watched. They'll try to tell you an ID card is for your benefit. It isn't. It's for theirs. Disobey this lousy pointless law if it comes in, even if just for kicks, or self-esteem.
[rab] Well, like I said, write to your MP, or to the relevant government minister, and if you feel strongly enough start a campaign and go on marches. As for the poll tax, surely that was abolished because there was such a tide of feeling against it and such massive protests, not because people disobeyed it. People disobeying it and its revocation were two effects of the one cause, namely the unpopularity of the law, rather than cause and effect, I'd say.
Sorry - I missed that part of your response to Rosie. To be clear I don't advocate disobedience as a means towards change, but I also don't advocate slavishly following ridiculous regulations laid down by someone else "just because". There has to be a good logical reason, and because "someone else said so" doesn't count.
BM] Something like 10 million people got summonsed for not paying the poll tax, though most just got fined. The credit-checking companies stopped including poll tax debts in credit-worthiness checks, because so many people had debts that it would have made their whole system unworkable. That refusal to pay and the campaigns against it were two sides of a coin - I don't see how you can seperate them out.
ID cards
fior me, the challenge will be to carry it but in such a way that it is useless for its intended purpose. Perhaps I'll have it laminated so that it doesn't get damaged. And then won't fit in any of the readers, oh dear.
Having fully identified myself, may I draw your attention to the spare games slot? What shall we have?
How about another limericks game?
More seriously, how about a revival of Carpe Diem?
Hmm, not convinced by Carpe Diem, though I can't really think of anything else. Anyone got something fresh and new?
I've got this salad.
I'd still like a game of Gallifrey Crescent.
New game
Bob the dog (or someone posing as him) seems to have seized the day with Sabogy, but the ruleset is unexplained and the opening move is, to say the least, combative.
I'd like a Headlines game... I know Stevie has just started one on Orange, but that's people-based. How have we played them before? Like Cheddar Headlines?
Sabogy
It was possibly a lurker that created the game sometime before half six this morning

[pen]I say go for it, end Sabogy and create the game.

Stop press
[pen] Haven't we got The Cheddar Valley Gazette running on Orange at present?
...more accurately known as Holmes Raided In Mystery Dawn Swoop.
[UK] Oh. I thought that was mystery-based, which is never my thing, so I hadn't looked. Something had to be done to get rid of the sweary thing though - the same game forced me to bed on Saturday night. Feel free to fold the newspaper game if you don't want it. Fold... geddit? ;o)
How about playing the Flower Game, as mooted by Bob in ...so help me God? :)
I don't think we've ever played Commie Crescent, which might be interesting. The winner is the first to redistribute Mornington Crescent to all the other players.
Practicality
BM] Your example of driving in New Zealand illustrates my point. Of course there is a practical advantage to carrying your driving license whilst driving. This practical advantage is that if stopped by the Police, you would nat have to go through the painful process that may arise from your not carrying it. This is my point with ID cards - one might carry it purely for teh "practical" reason that it is law and it is easier just to obey the lwa and thereby avoid any ridiculous consequences that may arise from not carrying it. But there is no MORAL reason why one should carry an ID card. I think what you fail to realise is that although our moral obligations often comply with legal obligations, many people do not believe that something is a moral obligation simply because it is a legal obligation. This is especially true when it comes to minor traffic violations. I must say that I find your blind obedience quite frightening, in a 1984 kind of way.
Yes but
StD] I know this is an argument where no-one will convince anyone else, but I have a problem with individuals deciding what they are and are not morally obliged to do. I'm sure Harold Shipman believed that he was morally right in relieving these old people of their suffering (and I know that's a reductio ad absurdum, but it is the other end of the same continuum). As for minor traffic offences, the roads are provided and maintained by highway authorities/the government for people to use in cars under certain conditions. Thus I would equate asking people to carry their licence with insisting that cars should be taxed and insisting on speed limits with insisting on insurance or insisting that people should not be under the influence.
On identity cards I would take the French view, that they should be provided cheaply and for all, but that it should not be obligatory to carry one (most French people do, but that's for convenience). However, the government shouldn't argue that they will be good for the country and for security and then try to recoup the entire cost of providing them in their cost.
[INJ] Individuals do make their own moral decisions, Shipman included. If you're suggesting a moral principle that laws ought to be obeyed, that's your principle and you're welcome to live by it, but it's still up to everyone else whether they decide to adopt that principle or not.
[INJ] "Cheap" identity cards? Whatever the upfront fee, the entire cost of introducing cards will be borne by the taxpayers. That is where governments get their money from.
[INJ] The only real problem with insisting individuals align their morals with the law is how you go about enforcing it. After all, surely that's what the law is intended to do anyway! When it comes down to it, I don't think it's possible to force someone to adopt a belief - and what are moral values if not beliefs?
[Raak] At the risk of hounding you from server to server on the topic of redistribution, they do, but not equally. :) [Darren] I think I'm happy with the law as a means of controlling behaviour more than belief. It then isn't necessary to believe wholly in the moral force of the law, but to simply act expediently or calculatedly in relation to it. If the law is any good (and sometimes it is very good), its drafters will tend to make some rough calculations about the behaviours it will provoke and try to ensure those give the moral outcome desired.
Simulposted - but still
[Raak, Darren] You're right of course, and I think I've said something that I don't really mean. I suppose I have misgivings that people (including myself), have a tendency to advance a 'moral high ground' defence for something that is really much more to do with convenience. This weakens the force of real, more important, moral stands.
[Cost of ID cards] If there are advantages in things like security, reducing benefit fraud and the like, then the cost of ID cards should be at least partly borne by those budgets. If you don't do that then in effect it's an addition to the government tax take - I'm arguing that it should be neutral or that the cost should come out of general, means-based, progressive taxation..
[Projoy] I wasn't intending to depict the law as a controller of belief, so much as a set of moral values which are supposedly held by the majority of society (or, more accurately, by the government) but not necessarily by individuals. In this sense, the law's connection with belief is that it's a formal statement of the way the government and/or society believes we should behave.
By way of light relief, and with Pen in mind...

PICTURE OF APE
heavily UNrelieved
[Btd] What the f ...?
... and by the way
'pen' has a small 'p'
[Chalky] She should see the doctor about that.
Or at least have the decency to use the proper receptacle for it.
moral obligations
I really think its a fascinating discussion. I must say though ImNotJohn, that there si really no-one else at all who can decide what I am morally obliged to do and not do do. They can give an opinion, they can throw me in jail, they can make me a saint or a pariah, but they cannot really decide what I feel morally obliged to do or not do. Anwya - I have to rush off now, but I do think its fascinatiing - and if yo ugoogle "Moral Obligation Obey Law" you find a lot of papers written on teh subject and it appears that great minds in this area have always and no doubt will alwyas disagree on what the answer is....
CdB Btd and WtF etc
[Btd] Blimey. Thank you very much. I know we talked about CdB and LiR, but what the hell did we say? He's a scary-looking man, anyhow.
[pen] He looks very smug, doesn't he? Always very smug. I wonder what on earth he can find to be smug about.
Sabogy
It's not a bad name for a game, but I wonder what it would be?
Sabogy
attempts to bogey a sabotage come to mind, but I don't know what that is either.
[St D] I wasn't advocating "blind obedience"! On the contrary, I said that there may be times when one is morally obliged to break the law if doing so would bring about more good or prevent more harm. But I do think that if this is not the case one is morally obliged to obey the law, simply from the fact that laws are made by the society which we are part of and from which we benefit. Read Plato's Crito for a rather more extreme defence of this (Socrates argues that one should never break the law, even an unjust one, for this reason).
[Darren] I think most philosophers, at least, would say that a moral value is not a belief, because you believe a proposition (eg "There is a God" or "Tony Blair is a jolly nice chap") but moral values are not really propositions. They may look like propositions (eg "It is wrong to murder") but this is simply a linguistic quirk. The reason is that moral statements don't simply express a fact, they prescribe an obligation - they state what you should do, rather than how things are. This is why many people think that expressions of morality are basically the same as expressions of taste, so that "Murder is wrong" is no more a statement of fact - and therefore no more a belief as such - than "This picture is nice". This probably isn't really very relevant to the discussion, though. I'm just feeling pretentious. But is it objectively true that I am?
Sabogies
's a bogey, innit, like, summin 's up yer nose.
Call my Sabogy
I would agree with Raak in that it is a shortened phrase almost a slang, it really originates from the estates in Glasgow, in their misunderstanding of what a bidet is for. As in
young child, "Wha's tha da?"
Jimmy "Sabogy"
blind obedience
BM] Fair point - sorry I missed that. I still feel that I side with teh school of thought that says we are not morally obliged to do anything really. Especially not simply obey laws because they are laws. I generally do and will obey laws, I hasten to add.
[St D] So if we are not morally obliged to do anything, would you say that if, for example, you found yourself on a desert island with an extremely annoying companion, and if (by hypothesis) there were no way for your actions ever to be discovered or punished, there would be no moral reason for you not to murder him and make kebabs? I should probably add that I'm inclined to agree that there is no such thing, really, as objective moral obligation, so when I talk about the obligation to obey laws I'm really just speaking for myself. But I'd be interested to see how you answer this one.
[BM] I don't agree with you when you say moral values are not beliefs. When they state what you should do, that's just another way of saying they state how you believe you should act. It's a matter of semantics, and at any rate I do agree that it's probably not enormously relevant. Incidentally, are you claiming that beliefs express fact? That's patently false. The difference between a belief and a fact is that, whereas a person may hold both to be true, the former need not be objectively true. Person A believes there is a god. Person B believes there is no god. How can both their beliefs equal objective fact at the same time?
Kebabs
(BreadM) The moral force behind not murdering your extremely irritating (but presumably unthreatening) companion is that you yourself would not like to be kebabbed. That is an absolute but the example you give is easy to evaluate. Not everything is quite so straightforward.
dead meat
BM] No I wouldn't say that at all. What I (think I am) saying is that there is not really, in my view, a moral imperative to obey a law simply because it is a law. I wouldn't kill someone by who was annoying for kebabs, even if I would never be found out, purely because of I suppose, the "moral reason" that you shouldn't kill people. As it so happens, there is no "practical" reason not to kill the annoying person [assuming that you aren't worried about being lonely or whatever], as the fact that there is to be no come back on it at all has removed the practical reason to not kill someone - because it is against the law and you may end up in the nick. What I think is that the moral obligations that a person feels rest pretty much the same irrespective of what laws exist or are being prepared or are being updated.
If a new law is brought in saying "You can't smoke in pubs" for example, I would not smoke in pubs because I was being asked not to by the Landlord, not because it was against the law. If I was in a pub where the landlord and all the customers were smoking, then I would smoke too. This actually happened in California a year or so ago - having slowly got used to not smoking in bars, I was in Lone Pine (nr Death Valley) and was about to light up at the bar. I stopped myself and said "Forgot I was ion California, sorry" and the barmaid laughed, pulled out an ashtray and said "This is Lone Pine, Honey".
[Darren] I don't think Bm was suggesting that beliefs were facts, more that they are ideas about what is. Ideas about what ought to be are a whole other class. I think it's overoptimistic to hope that any system of law will be an encoding of some sort of consistent moral philosophy. This is not least because there are usually contradictory premises even where the law is set out from first principles, leaving Supreme Courts to scratch their heads and deliver hung verdicts. The law represents just an accretive set of some morals some people had at some points in history (which is not to say it's arbitrary, just tremendously compromised by the practical realities of how it is made). My naive working assumption is usually that whoever made the law did so for the general benefit, so it's better to have obedience as the default position. There are also laws (such as speed limits) where an arbitrary line was drawn which could as easily have been drawn somewhere else (there's nothing intrinsically safer about 70mph over 71mph), but the benefit for all in drawing a line is that it gives a common framework, arbitrary though it may be, that enables drivers to make consistent calculations about risk and behaviour - so the law is worth obeying on a "what if everyone broke it?" sort of basis, I think. [Bm] I'm with you: no objective force for morals. One can easily chip away any moral principle (if you're willing to take an unpopular position) by questioning the source of its authority. You can chip away at facts in this way too, usually by resorting to that undergraduate nuclear option, the epistemological question, but it does strike me as harder.
Epistemology
(Projoy) It's an awful long time since I was an undergraduate, so what is The epistemological question? And, presuming you answer, how do you know that?
The epistomological question is "Ah, but how can you know anything?" and one usually sees it used when its invoker has lost the argument. :)
[Projoy] I doubt anybody really has a consistent moral philosophy. I certainly don't. I'm not entirely sure your view of laws is any different from mine. We just worded it differently. At any rate, I also agree there is no objective force for morals. Oh, and the loser in invoking The epistemological question is probably the highbrow equivalent of Godwin's Law.
I used to think that morality was no more than personal preference, delusionally experienced (as our perceptions usually are) as external to oneself. What else could moral statements be, since they are not demonstrable matters of fact? These days I'm not so sure, mainly due to personal experience that I don't think I can describe. A third possibility is that they are indemonstrable matters of fact, which is C.S. Lewis' position in "The Abolition of Man", which I mentioned here recently. They can be learned only by certain experiences, but the experience cannot be communicated. They cannot even be demonstrated to oneself, only lived by or not.
[Darren] Projoy answered it for me really, but yes, I meant that beliefs are about propositions, which may be true or false. A proposition is the thing that, if it is true, is a fact. And I do think that moral views are not beliefs, because they are not about propositions. It may be linguistically acceptable to say "X is wrong" but I don't think that that expresses a real proposition, because it's not something that can really be true or false. It's a commonplace now that ought cannot be reduced to is, because there is something about a prescription that is not simply a factual statement - it is, in a sense, an order. Quite what that non-factual element is, though, is a matter of debate.
[Rosie] But what has what I would like got to do with it? On the contrary, one might say that my own desire to remain unkebabed is all the more reason to kebabify the other chap, for fear of his doing it to me first (since he finds me just as irritating as I do him, and no wonder). Of course, I don't know if you're supported St D's position as originally expressed that we are not morally obliged to do anything, or aiming to refute it.
[St D] So then in fact you do think we have moral obligations? I thought you meant that we don't at all - presumably you meant only with regard to obeying the law? In which case I apologise for misunderstanding you.
I almost simulposted with Raak, and it's funny because I think I'm increasingly drawn to the view he says he now doesn't share, which is odd because normally you'd think we'd be the other way around!
[Projoy] My rule of thumb is that when someone questions the possibility of knowing the truth of anything, there is some specific truth they are trying very hard to ignore.
[Bm] What view are you moving away from, if I may ask?
[BM] I understand your argument now. A belief is a proposition which must be objectively true or false, whereas a moral value is based on something subjective... I do see where you're coming from, but I'm still not entirely comfortable with it. It seems almost a logical positivist approach to belief - that something can only be a belief if its accuracy can be objectively determined. So what of the question of whether there is a god? Is there a way of determining if there is a god or not? If not, then belief in a god can't be a belief. If you disagree with this, why is it less acceptable for "X is wrong" to be a proposition than "there is a god"? If you agree with it, then is religion in general a set moral values rather than a set of beliefs?
I meant "a set of moral values" rather than "a set moral values" of course.
Ooh, it's getting gritty now...
[Raak] I didn't really have a view to move away from, to be honest. This is partly because I always found ethics by far the dullest area of philosophy and never formally did it. I suppose the view I'm moving away from is the view that there is any sense in which "X is right/wrong" is objectively true or even objectively anything. It may be possible for it to be objectively something, but I'm not sure what, and if it's not truth then I'm not really interested.
[Darren] Oh no, I'm no logical positivist, a position I think is pretty silly (for the uninitiated, this is the view that something can be true only if it can be shown to be true). I don't say that we can't know the truth value of ethical propositions, therefore they can't be true. Rather, I say that they are not propositions at all. They are not stating facts (or falsehoods) of any kind. Thus they differ from the proposition you give of "There is a God," which I certainly think (a) cannot be shown to be either true or false, but (b) is either true or false. That's an unverifiable proposition, but "X is wrong" isn't really a proposition at all, even though it looks like one. Part of the reason I think this is that I cannot imagine how a world in which "X is wrong" is true differs from a world in which "X is wrong" is false other than that one difference. But I think that if a proposition is true it must express something about actual things actually in the world - that is, facts are, as it were, parasitic upon things. So for "There is a God" to be true there would have to be an actual God, whilst for it to be false there would have to be none. But I don't know what kind of "thing" would have to be different for "X is false" to be a fact or a falsehood. Thus it's not merely that we don't know whether it's true or not, I don't think it means anything at all to say that it is true - that is, it's not the sort of thing that can be true. If you follow me.
[Bm] (I assume that your last "X is false" was a misprint for "X is wrong"?) According to the view I am suggesting without necessarily being committed to, what would be different for "X is wrong" to be a fact or a falsehood would be that those with moral insight would agree that X was or was not wrong. That doesn't advance things much, but moves the question to "How does one acquire moral insight?" And also "How can people claiming different moral insights reach agreement on moral facts?"
I just want to correct "those with moral insight would agree" to "those with moral insight would see".
[Raak] Yes, the typesetters did me wrong. I think you're going to have to elaborate somewhat on your suggestion, though. If the sole difference between "X is wrong" being true and false is whether those with moral insight think it is, then that doesn't seem to me to be a very strong claim. Are you basically saying that things are right/wrong because most people (or most appropriate people) think so? But clearly this is quite different from normal propositions - for example, "Jupiter is the largest planet in the solar system" isn't true or false by majority opinion, and neither is "There is a God." Normally we think of propositions being things that people recognise the truth or falsity of, rather than things that they determine the truth or falsity of. Alternatively, if you think that those with moral insight are in fact not determining rightness/wrongness but recognising it, then that begs the question on what grounds these people see that X is right or wrong. Do they just "see" it with Enlightenment-style infallible conscience, with no further explanation? This is quite apart from the problem you suggest yourself, which is how to recognise those with authentic moral insight, and how to deal with the problem of disagreement over morality.
[Raak] I know you're not fully taking the position that there are naturally some people with greater moral authority, but it's interesting to compare with the libertarian worldview which (without knowing much about it) I would have thought would rely on the idea that morality is personal and subjective.

As you say, it doesn't advance things much to suppose there are those with moral insight, since it's basically a deferral of the question about the source of any objective morality. For "God", read "the enlightened". You thus can't move on to asking "how does one acquire moral insight?" without committing to the belief that there is such a thing, so a leap of faith would seem to be required. Definitely not one I'm prepared to make based on my experiences.
[Bm] Moral propositions (in the view I'm setting out) aren't true by virtue of being believed, they are true objectively, and those able to see them believe because they see them. How do they do this? Well, how do you (for example) recognise the ordinary physical objects around you? There's no "how" involved that we can say anything useful about (at least not until non-invasive brain scanning technology improves in resolution by many orders of magnitude). The same for moral perception. How people get to be able to have moral perceptions is more answerable in the here and now: upbringing, spontaneous revelation, or learning from enlightened people.
[Projoy] If there is such a thing as moral authority at all, then some people will have more of it than others. I don't know where that "naturally" comes from: if it's an elite, it's one that anyone can join, the same as authority about temporal matters. There is indeed an act of faith involved: the faith that there are objective morals. But there is also an act of faith involved in the perception of physical truths. The main difference between the two is that most people's physical senses function at a high enough level that it is easy for all to agree on simple physical statements, while the same degree of consensus is lacking in the moral realm. One difference, at any rate. Another is that people are much more attached to their moral judgements than their physical ones.
Our three chief weapons are...
Upbringing, spontaneous revelation, learning from enlightened people...or arriving at them by working them out oneself.
fundamental philosophical talk
[Raak] True, there needn't be a "naturally" although of course in the case of perception of reality there are real reasons why some people are naturally better at intuitive perception of reality than others (a minor example is perfect pitch). We don't necessarily know the nuts 'n' bolts reasons for these differences but it is something we can say with some confidence based on the level of agreement about reality and different people's success at perceiving intuitively that which we can independently verify: I sing a note. JLE says it's A, I play an A on the piano and it corroborates his statement. But crucially his doing this does not allow me to learn perfect pitch from him. If accurate perception of some kind of objective morality is a higher order skill of this type, it's then a reasonable speculation there probably is a hierarchy of people's ability to perceive moral absolutes.

In the case of morality this strikes me as considerably wilder speculation than making the same statement about perfect pitch. This might be for anthropic reasons, of course, but if so your line of reasoning becomes rather depressing for those who don't sense an objective morality, since it suggests they are missing something big and are never going to perceive it! (Slartibartfast would say, "Oh, no, that's just paranoia. Everyone in the Universe has that.")
addendum
...and of course something else follows from that line of reasoning, which is that if one is to have the best system of law, there are objectively people who are qualified to legislate and indeed, such a thing as government with objective moral force, whom we lesser mortals are insufficiently equipped to judge!
Absolute pitch
(Projoy) If intuitive means "knowing without thinking" then absolute pitch is intuitive. I have it, and always have had, and I can't quite understand why anybody who's had access to a musical instrument at an early age and is musical hasn't got it. It is, in my view, only a form of memory, motivated by a strong interest in the subject. Maybe its rarity is due to it having little evolutionary or survival advantage, unlike colour recognition. It's not much help, especially these days, to know that ex-GWR steam engines whistle in A flat (1st leger line above the treble).
(Projoy) Just seen your addendum. There are indeed people who are qualified to legislate, not because they have any superior sense of morality but because they understand the nuts and bolts of legislation and its effects (sometimes). Furthermore, we have asked them to do it, this being some sort of democracy.
[Projoy] But there are people who don't sense morality. They're highly exceptional: we call them psychopaths. Not sensing the objectiveness of morality or not believing in its objectiveness are different, and don't disqualify anyone from sensing morality. As for legislation, possessing sound moral judgement does not give anyone a right to order other people around. Indeed, the delusion that "if only everyone acted as I think they ought to the world would run a lot better, therefore they should be made to act like that" is a pretty clear sign of moral immaturity.
pitch black
[Rosie] I think we did this discussion before and established that color recognition isn't really analogous to pitch recognition (because we can point at something and say "yellow", even when it's in shadow in a way that lowers the frequency to something we'd normally call brown). In a similar way, I hear a note in the context of a tune and can say "submedian" even if I can't say "Bb" or whatever it happens to be. Perhaps there is a window of opportunity very early in life to acquire perfect pitch (I'd be interested to know if there's any evidence that people who learn an instrument from, say, 4, are x times more likely to have perfect pitch than those who only start at 7, say), but from my perspective, I certainly don't think it's related to level of interest. An old music teacher of mine used to talk about an academic colleague of hers who was so envious of others' perfect pitch that he tried to learn it. He would play a note on the piano at the top of the college building then walk to the basement, brushing aside all attempts to engage him in conversation, all the while humming the note under his breath until he reached the piano in the basement. I understand he never achieved his goal :). [re: legislators] Yes, but good legislators can do their job in the absence of any moral principles. If someone told them to draft a law that compels everyone to kill their neigbour they could do that just as easily as drafting an obviously moral law. What Raak and Bm and Darren and I are speculating about is whether there are people objectively better qualified to frame the moral basis of legislation.
[Projoy] I don't think that's what I'm speculating about. (For what it's worth, I don't think any one person is more qualified to frame the moral basis of legislation than any other. To err is human, after all, and it strikes me that in order to define morality one must be infallible and therefore above the reach of mere morality. Am I making any sense or just rambling incoherently?) What I'm speculating about is whether morality and belief are the same thing. I suspect I may have to agree to disagree with Bm over that, because I'm still not convinced by his argument. The thing is, I'm reminded of Hofstadter, where he was talking about how a rock smashing a space probe may seem like a waste to us, but to a sufficiently intelligent race it may seem obvious that that's the most appropriate thing that can be done to it. The point I'm making is that just because humanity can't objectively decide whether X is wrong or right morally, it doesn't mean there isn't an absolute answer to the question which could be answered definitively by an intelligence with greater insight than ours, with rock-solid logical backup and an appropriate set of side-effects. Again, maybe that makes no sense at all. Part of the reason for saying all this is to expose the underlying thoughts which are running through my mind as I write these posts just to see if anything falls apart when they're examined more closely.
The connection with logical propositions is that, as it seems to me, Bm's definition of belief as logical proposition implies that something becomes a moral value if it can't be stated as a logical proposition as far as human intelligence is aware, whereas I don't draw any distinction simply on the basis of the limit of human awareness. Perhaps that's the difference between Bm's position and mine. Perhaps I'm being needlessly mystical about the whole thing.
Can someone have a more-well-tuned moral compass than others? Certainly. But was Gandhi's sense of morality "nature", and Siddartha Guatama's sense of morality "nurture"? (That is, a matter of learned experience vs. innate sensibility.) And of course, those who are inclined to seek public office are generally the least suited to holding public office! [Rosie] I would think that perfect pitch cannot be learned, because even though the cochlea can pass along a B flat vibration, the brain still has to define the vibration. [Raak] Psycho/sociopaths are not lacking in a sense of morality. In fact, they can be highly moral people when it applies to actions against themselves. Their issue lies in the fact that they do not understand the concept of "other", as in, there are other people out there who do exist; and this lack of understanding regarding "otherness" evidences itself to the rest of us as a lack of morality. Which I think is a good argument for morality itself being a learned ability (in that it requires an observer to define Moral and Not-moral).
Morality vs Belief
dictionary.com: morality: The quality of being in accord with standards of right or good conduct. belief: Mental acceptance of and conviction in the truth, actuality, or validity of something Now, having said that, how does it apply? One must BELIEVE that one's MORAL STANDARDS are a TRUTH in order for one to have faith in one's morality. (Because if you don't have believe in the verity of your own morality, everything falls apart. "The center cannot hold!")
I should just explain that I brought Stina here.
[Stina] (Hi.) Isn't that circular? Faith in one's morality is the same thing as believing that it is true. To argue on the other side for the moment, one can lead a perfectly moral life while having no such faith in the existence of any objective standard. I have preferences about the way I want to live, and about the way I would like other people to live. But whether I regard these preferences as no more than preferences, or as perceptions of moral truths, in either case I can't prove to anyone else that they should behave the way I think they ought to. The most I can do is argue that living in such and such a way will benefit them in their terms.
[Stina] Welcome! But no - if anything, you must believe that your moral standards are normative, not that they are true. As I argue, moral standards are not the kind of things that are "true". A moral statement is like an imperative. You wouldn't say that "Go to your room!" is true any more than it is false. It just is. The point is that moral statements ultimately boil down to injunctions of that form, even if they are disguised as statements of fact. So "X is wrong" is really "Don't do X!" in disguise. Why? Because to put it another way, statements of morality are things that you can obey or disobey. You can react to a fact or a proposition in any number of ways, but you can't obey or disobey it. Moral claims aren't like that - they invite - indeed demand - obedience in some way. And an injunction like that is not the kind of thing that can be true or false. The task for the believer in objective morality is to explain in what sense an injunction can be "objective", if it is not in the same sense that a fact can be objective. This is why I disagree with Darren. I'm not saying that moral statements aren't propositions because we don't understand how they can be, and that a greater intelligence than ours could see how they are. I don't think that they are propositions at all, and it doesn't matter how transcendent you are. A hyper-intelligent pan-dimensional being wouldn't ask what the truth-value of a moral statement is, any more than it would ask how heavy a shadow is or what colour 1815 was, because it recognise that to do so is to make a category mistake, that is, to treat something of one category as if it belonged to another. I think that those who ask whether a moral statement is true or false, or assert that it is, are making just such a category mistake.
[Raak] It seems to me that the question of who can recognise moral truth, and how, is something of a distraction from the main question, which is what "moral truth" is in the first place, and how it can exist if the points I've made are valid. If a moral statement does not express a proposition at all, let alone a true one, then what does it express? Taking for granted that there are some people who can recognise it, what are they recognising, quite apart from the question of how?
[Breadmaster] Well, as I said, I suspect we may have to agree to disagree on that. I see no problem with asking what colour 1815 is, or indeed with the proposition "1815 is green." There may not be many ways of reasoning with it, and certainly it might be hard to prove it one way or another (short of formalised synaesthesia!) but I don't happen to believe that those issues prevent it being true or false. If it's a category mistake, then no number/year has a property equivalent to colour, and the statement is false. It's still a proposition.

You said earlier that "ought" does not reduce to "is." Fair enough, but you then say "X is wrong" is really "Don't do X!" in disguise, or, to put it another way, "One ought not X." Surely you're self-contradicting here. At any rate, I fundamentally disagree that just because (if we allow this, which I wouldn't) "X is wrong" may be written "don't do X", that it must always be treated as "don't do X," and that the "X is wrong" form must be disregarded.

[Bm] Well, I'm arguing, or rather exploring the hypothesis, because I think there's some mileage in it, that moral statements are propositions. They are truth claims about the moral universe. The normative consequence -- you should do that which is good, and avoid doing that which is evil -- is a secondary matter. Someone who perceives the moral truth does not have to bludgeon himself with "shoulds" into acting accordingly, he will do so as an inevitable conequence of seeing the truth, the same as he will step out of the way of an onrushing car when he perceives it, and for the same reason.
Pitch and putt
(Projoy) You can't learn absolute pitch, or unlearn it either, which is one reason I play the trombone. All the other blowing instruments in a jazz band are transposing and if I read a C I don't want to hear a Bb, and certainly not an Eb (alto and baritone sax). Trombone is written in bass clef, which results in an impressive stack of leger lines for the high notes. If it's on a space and "in the stratosphere" it's a C (octave above middle C). Otherwise it's a D (hopefully a Db) which I can just about do with a following wind. Why don't they just go into treble clef? Because they don't. Maybe not all trombonists are pianists.
Lost in space....................
Never trust a Vogon when it comes to directions.I've been stuck in the plorii system for the last 8 months!!! But now I'm back...........
To answer my own question re: perfect pitch, I googled a paper which says: "we also observed a significant association between AP and the age at which an individual first began playing music. For the AP group as a whole, the mean age of starting musical activities was 5.4 ± 2.8 years, whereas, for the non-AP group, the mean age was 7.9 ± 3.2 years (P < .0001)."
Also, it says, perfect pitch is far more common in Oriental people.
[Projoy] But -- as they also point out, I'm glad to see -- the causation could easily run the other way.
[Bm, Raak, Darren, et al] This is a *great* discussion; one from which I am really learning.
Perfect pitch
I had perfect pitch as a child, but not being a musician, I've never used it, and the skill seems to have decayed. I just tried whistling a middle C, and it turned out to be a tone flat. But maybe I'm channelling Baroque pitch, concert pitch having been invented to boost the E-string industry.
[widey] But we've been here all the time :o) Good to see you back!
Whistling Middle C
I'm not surprised you can't whistle Middle C; you'd need a head the size of a space hopper to do that. Do you mean an octave higher, or maybe even two? As to baroque pitch, I once heard Handel's Messiah sung to the accompaniment of old instruments, as it turned out. "Why are these buggers in D flat?", I was muttering until the penny dropped. Baroque pitch is about 3/4 of a semitone down on concert. (A = 422 or so).
Questions, questions....
What CdM said, first of all - it's this sort of discussion, as much the games, that keeps me coing back to the Morniverse. I do have a couple of questions- probably daft ones, but I'll lob them in anyway

Raak] If moral statements are propositions - objective truths like gravity or the earth being round - then shouldn't we as a species have discovered some of them by now? And how exact are they? Do you mean general statements like the Ten Commandments, or more specific ones? And if they are objective truths, then surely they admit no exceptions? Which is somewhat problematic - the proposition likely to get the greatest assent is probably "You shall not kill", but if pushed, most people would admit to believing some caveats to even that one (just wars, self-defence, etc).

Darren] There's a convention called Pantone numbers in printing, where you tell a printer the exact shade of green you want by quoting the Pantone number. Inside that convention, the statement that "1815 is green" is objectively true or false. That convention works because everyone who uses it agrees that the rule-set exists, and that the person or people who defined the rule-set have the right to do so. What I'd question about the idea that "1815 is green" in the wider world is - how do we know that the rule-set exists, and who made it?

Lastly (and without stopping this discussion) could I advance the moral proposition that CdM has won the current round of AVMA, and that he should tell us the answer and set another one?
[Irouléguy] Here is one account of the moral Way (although I think it leaves out a significant area, one's responsibility towards oneself). Does the law of gravity admit of exceptions? Yet iron ships float, planes fly, and Voyager is escaping the solar system, and for well-understood reasons. Anyone touting a verbal formula as the truth, whether in the scientific realm or the moral realm, has already fallen into error.
[Irouléguy] Even if an objective rule-set exists, it doesn't need a maker, unless you want to be creationist about it, or you want to take the view that all mappings are abstract constructs formed by the human mind, in which case there's no such thing as a natural rule-set, but nor does there have to be a single named maker as such things can be built up over time. At any rate, there is no need for "1815 is green" as a logical proposition to say anything about the wider world (the meaning and nature of which we could debate for many centuries), because, apart from the fact that we could be talking about all kinds of symbolism, the proposition in itself is a kind of proposed mapping between 1815ness and greenness. It doesn't have to be objectively true or false, but what we do have to be able to say is, if we had enough data, we could determine whether it was true or false. In other words, we don't need a rule-set, because the proposition itself, if true, implies the existence of one. If false, however, it says nothing about the existence or non-existence of a rule-set, although if there is no rule-set, the proposition is not a proposition because it cannot be true or false. In the same way, by saying "X is wrong" as a proposed mapping from the concept of X to the concept of wrongness, we don't necessarily say there *is* an objective mapping of actions to moral evaluations, but for "X is wrong" to be objectively true there must be such a mapping. However, just because we can't tell objectively at this stage whether such a rule-set may or may not exist, that doesn't mean that "X is wrong" stops being a proposition. I think Breadmaster's position, in this sense, is that such a rule-set is impossible and so by definition no proposition which purports to use it can have meaning, because it is neither true nor false, and therefore fails to qualify as a proposition. If it can be shown that there is definitively no rule-set, then I agree with Breadmaster that such things aren't propositions. I'm just not entirely convinced that such a rule-set is impossible, even if it is beyond human knowledge. How far this gets us into the question of morality I don't know!
Actually, I said above "There is no objective force for morals," so I've contradicted myself. OK. Let me put it like this, if there is no objective force for morals (as I clearly thought a couple of days ago!) then Breadmaster is correct and my arguments have fallen apart.

The funny thing is, this discussion has made me question in myself whether I really believe there is no such thing as objective morality, and I can't really say for certain one way or the other. Within the human world, I don't think there is anyone who has in themselves, or has determined in some other way, an objective sense or code of morality. So, I suppose I'll have to fall in line with Breadmaster's view that moral values are not logical propositions. Well done Bm! Certainly made me understand my reasoning a bit more.

[CdM] So having perfect pitch makes you Oriental! I always suspected this was the case! :)
[Raak] I understand that you're suggesting your personal insights into this come from experiences which you can't describe here, so you are rather hamstrung in terms of pursuing this hypothesis of objective morality, at least in this forum. But I am inclined to ask you some skeptical, pedantic questions, such as what a "moral universe" is, how you think the whole thing might work (in just the way you can't find here). If a moral intuiter steps out of the way of immoral actions because they perceive risk to themself (as in your car analogy), that is one thing (but implies self-interest being at the heart of morality, which would make it subjective, surely?); if a moral intuiter senses moral danger, what sort of process do you speculate might be going on in their heads that doesn't appear to go on in mine? Further, if you have some experience of this, maybe - without having to talk about the experience - you could tentatively specify an example of an objective moral rule...?
[Projoy] I knew someone was going to say that.
[Darren] Yayy! Thank you. By the way, I inexplicably can't access this page (alone of all in the Morniverse) from work any more, it seems, which is why I fell silent. Bear in mind that even moral statements are not propositions, it does not necessarily follow that they are not universally applicable. "Don't murder!" could be normative for everyone even though it does not express an objective fact. Perhaps there could be "objective commands". But what those could be, and how they could be, I don't know, and explaining them is a task for someone else.
[Raak] You surely know that your gravity analogy doesn't apply! Floating ships and space probes aren't "breaking" the law of gravity any more than I am when I hold my leg in the air before taking a step. Rather, the law of gravity is simply one of many physical laws which are inter-related, or interact. But that's beside the point. More to the point is that even the list you link to contains much that is arguable. I, for example, don't set much stock by "duties to ancestors" even though the average Confucian might regard it as a central moral imperative. There is nothing that has been universally accepted as a moral imperative, and even if there were, it wouldn't prove anything other than that people all thought it was right. The most such things can show is that human beings have evolved - either biologically or socially - to think that certain things are right or wrong, presumably because those who didn't think this didn't develop stable societies. Thus most people think that murder is wrong because if they didn't they wouldn't have survived. We can therefore explain moral imperatives - or at least their basic outlines - quite adequately in a historical or evolutionary way, without needing to posit that moral views express some kind of "truth" about the world. And the sorts of questions that Projoy asks indicate that there are big problems with the view that they do. After all, there are many people who think that there are moral facts, but no-one seems able to agree what they are. Is abortion a fundamental right or is it one of the blackest crimes there is? The fact that people disagree doesn't prove that there isn't a matter of fact at dispute, of course, but it does raise the question - how, even in principle, could the dispute be settled? What "evidence" (even if in practice it could not be collected) would prove it one way or the other?
Another point that might be relevant - the Tao website states that "For those who do not perceive its rationality, even universal consent could not prove it." Well, I'm afraid I don't perceive its rationality. I may perceive its utility or practical application. But David Hume pointed out that morality isn't to do with rationality, and vice versa - he said something like "There is nothing irrational about my preferring the destruction of the entire universe to the scratching of my finger," and he was right - such a preference may be morally wrong in whatever sense you have of the word, or it may be highly unuseful, but it's not, strictly speaking, irrational.
[Projoy] Self-interest is at work in stepping out of the path of a car, but that doesn't make it subjective in any useful sense. Everyone will step out of the way of that car, except only children who have not yet learned that it is dangerous, the drug-addled, and the suicidally depressed. This is only subjective to the degree that every thought we have is subjective. What is objective is that the car will kill you if you don't get out of the way. Opinions and wishes are irrelevant. Reality is like the Terminator: you can't reason with it, you can't argue with it. You only have power to choose your actions, not their consequences.
       (Repeat earlier caveat that I'm taking this horse out for a ride to test its legs.)
       Thus it is with morality. The enlightened do good and avoid evil, because, from their point of view, the first person that good acts benefit and evil acts harm is oneself, consequences as undeniable as traffic. It applies to everything from not mugging old ladies for their pension money to getting out of bed in the morning. The idea has a long pedigree, e.g. Socrates and the Buddhist canon (and in a debased form in the Religions Of The Book, where all the consequences are deferred to a supposed later life, despite the statement by one of their prophets that "the kingdom of heaven is within you"). It doesn't give instant answers to all questions, any more than the laws of physics will immediately tell you how to build a kilometer-tall skyscraper.

[Bm] You give two arguments that undercut each other: that there are no universally accepted moral principles, and that universally accepted moral principles arise for evolutionary reasons. You can't have it both ways, but I'll ride this horse over both of them anyway.
       No scientific truth is universally accepted either, if you define "universally" narrowly enough. There are, nonetheless, substantial areas of agreement on moral issues that can be found throughout all civilisations. That doesn't prove they are true (as Lewis himself says), merely that they exist. Perceiving their truth is a separate matter.
       I could take the evolutionary explanation as evidence on my side -- the consequences of right and wrong action are exactly your presumed evolutionary pressures. Not getting run over is also evolutionarily adaptive, but that does not mean that personal decisions and the laws of physics have nothing to do with it.
       How do you perceive the utility of the Way? If it is useful to follow the Way, what is it useful for? And what in turn is that useful for? Utility offers no foundation. Likewise rationality. Look hard enough, and all attempts to find foundations lead only to an infinite regress. Ideas can only justify ideas in terms of other ideas. Morality is about actions, and actions cannot be deduced from thoughts, any more than an ought from an is.
       Hume also claimed not to see causation, but he wouldn't have survived to write his books if he hadn't dodged horse-drawn carts now and then.

[Raak] Maybe Hume was just very, very lucky.
[Raak] Your supposition that evil acts harm the doer is where it all falls down for me. Sort of repeating Bm's point, but a car will run people down according to the laws of physics, which can be reliably shown to operate universally (at least as far as we can observe), but mugging someone for their pension cannot be shown universally to have negative effects for the individual (unless you start invoking some unknowable afterlife or karma or whatever). In other words, some people get away with breaking moral rules, in just the way that a car can't get away with braking the rules of physics in order to save a life. There is merely a certain probability that a system of law exists that will make mugging disadvantageous to the perpetrator. This is not 100% (in fact taking human history as a whole, I'm tempted to speculate it is less than 50%). Is there any real evidence whatsoever to the contrary?
Getting away with murder
You might come back with the argument that the fact people get away with breaking moral rules is irrelevant to the truth of those rules, but if so then the truth of those rules is irrelevant to us if we are searching for objective standards, since the rules cannot be shown to have reliable consequences, and therefore do not admit of predictions.

I also think that rational suicide is a very interesting example in the objective/subjective debate, because it's always struck me as a very interesting example of higher-order thinking successfully overruling all the lower-order evolutionary thinking with which we come pre-installed. If our sense of objective morality rests on self-preservation, why would it admit of contradiction in this way?
Raak] (Following on from Breadmaster's reply) It's also the case that all of these moral traditions arose in societies whose rulers did not follow them, yet all of these moral traditions preached acceptance of those rulers. "Thou shalt not kill" actually become "Thou shalt not kill unless thou art the state". If these are absolute moralities, shouldn't the rulers obey them? And if the rulers are immoral, shouldn't the moral organise to get rid of them and impose the rule of the moral?
My second objection is that I don't see what makes these an objective rule-set, as opposed to the many other moral precepts you could have instead (for example, sexual equality, environmentalism).
Lastly, illustrating Projoy's point, I'm reminded by the weather of the Belloc (?) poem:
The rain it falleth on the just
And on the unjust fella
But more upon the just, because
The unjust stole the just's umbrella
One of the lessons of experience (both direct and indirect) is that crime or acting immorally very often does pay.

Darren] You're right to pick me up on the creationist implication of my argument (not at all what I think). I was with your argument all the way until "In other words, we don't need a rule-set, because the proposition itself, if true, implies the existence of one." I think that's circular reasoning, because the truth or otherwise of a proposition can only be tested by reference to a rule-set.
[Irouléguy] Not circular, but certainly flawed. We don't need, and nor can we infer the existence of, a universal rule-set, however we do need a rule-set which covers at least the special case(s) covered by the proposition we know to be true in order to test it, as you say, but we can say (and this is what I was getting at) that if the proposition is true, then such a special-case rule-set must exist, even if its only rule is the true proposition itself. Bringing in the special-case rule-sets, a proof that there is no universal rule-set doesn't discount the possibility of a special-case one which covers only finitely many possibilities, and therefore it is possible for a proposition to be demonstratively true or false even if there is no universal rule-set.
(At this point I'm no longer talking about objectively moral rule-sets.)
(Er... by that I mean the focus of what I'm talking about has shifted away from morality into how logical propositions [can] be members of larger sets of rules mapping one class of items to another.)
[Irouléguy] The moral organising to remove unjust rulers happens now and then, for example, in Iraq. (I am not joking.) Imposing the rule of the moral, though, is a contradiction in terms. Rule can only be imposed on an unwilling populace by killing enough of them to intimidate the rest. What is moral about that? Re your second point, you see it or you don't. That is the key difference between empirical knowledge and moral knowledge: one is demonstrable and the other is not. On your third point, why didn't the just man thump the unjust when he tried to make off with his umbrella? Sometimes crime pays and sometimes it doesn't.
[Projoy] Indeed, mugging someone cannot be demonstrated to have those negative effects upon the soul that have nothing to do with the courts. The world-view I'm arguing is one that can only be held as a matter of faith. That, it occurs to me, is what religious faith really is. It is not belief in stories about empty tombs or dictating angels; it is the belief that not only are good and evil knowable, but the knowledge is closer than your own heartbeat.
       But to return specifically to mugging, muggers are not notably well-off, materially successful people, are they, even if they never go to jail? There are no rich muggers.
Not philosophy
ISIHAC is back, and a good one too. Carry on.
Carrying on
The supposed negative consequences of sin are not some sort of consolation for the good -- "he stole my wallet, but he'll burn in hell for all eternity, so that's ok". Morality only has application to oneself. Other people will do whatever they do, whatever one thinks about what they do.
[Raak] *holds his position in the discussion while he looks online for the biography of a mugger who becomes very rich*
Per Capita
Any chance of a recap for someone who's not been able to follow this discussion closely whilst it's been ongoing? From what I can gather my thoughts are
  • What's the definition of morality? I've seen a few arguments as to what it's not, but what is it?
  • Without knowing what morality is, I can't decide whether there's any sense in talking about an absolute one or not.
  • What I do find interesting, though, is why people seem to have converged on having similar feelings about certain things (such as killing other people to be 'bad' [which I am happy to try and define, should that be necessary]) despite having in other ways entirely different social backgrounds and upbringing. I appreciate that there are two possible explanations for this: one, a higher "moral" force. I'm more interested in the other explanation.
But I don't want to say any of these aloud without being sure I'm not just retreading old ground.
(within, I should say, the confines of this discussion. I'm sure this ground has been trodden more generally by many others before. But few of us, presumably, were there, so...)
[Raak] Well, you're a bit unfair to say that the points I made contradict each other - I don't think there are any universally accepted moral mores, but those which are predominantly accepted can be explained in an evolutionary way. But I don't see that this is backing for your position, or as you put it, "the consequences of right and wrong action are exactly your presumed evolutionary pressures". Seems to me more reasonable to say that "right" and "wrong" are simply words that human beings have learned to apply to actions with such consequences. But if that is so, why should we do "right" and avoid "wrong"? I think this is the problem with the position you're defending, that "right" actions help the doer and "wrong" ones harm him/her. That isn't morality, it's prudence. Prudence means doing what is sensible, essentially, from one's own point of view. Many accounts of "ethics" have really been about this, the most famous being Aristotle's, which is all about how to achieve "eudaimonia" or "happiness". But this isn't what most of us understand by "morality", for two reasons. The first is that prudence often conflicts with what most people would understand as morality. For example, a soldier who throws himself on top of a grenade to save his friends is clearly not acting prudently, but most people would want to say he acts morally. Second, prudence does not have the force of imperative that I was talking about earlier. A moral value is, in some sense, a command. "Murder is wrong" means "Don't murder people!" You can ignore it or disobey it if you want, but the command still demands a response (and this, I think, for rab's benefit, must be part of the definition of a moral statement). By contrast, "If you mug people it will redound against you" isn't a command, it's simply a statement. It's not telling you to do something. What I want from a decent account of moral statements is an explanation of that imperative, and it seems to me that appealing to consequences in this way - or indeed in any way, such as that of utilitarianism - does not do this.
To put that point a slightly different way, moral values can be transgressed, whereas ones of prudence cannot. "Do not murder people" can be obeyed or disobeyed - "Murder will ultimately harm yourself" cannot.
The wealth of muggers
[Projoy] Look at it this way: muggers are literally stealing people's pocket money. How is anyone going to get rich doing that?
[Raak] Whyever not? One mugger doesn't just mug one victim. They do it over and over again, as long as they don't get caught (that's probably the only practical limiting clause). There's also always the possibility they'll hit a minor jackpot, too, of someone who's carrying more than just "pocket money." I would imagine, for instance, that some of us going up to Rugby had a fair amount in cash. (As the guy collecting money for T-shirts, this is more than mere speculation!) Once they've got some money, there's no reason they couldn't invest their ill-gotten gains wisely, either, and make it grow a bit. True, I doubt most muggers are smart enough to know how to do that, but I don't think you can say it's inherently impossible to become rich through it.
[Raak] Oh, and I think you're also ignoring the way they tend to take other things the person has on them, such as credit cards, watches, jewellery, etc. The latter two probably aren't worth very much for most people (let's be honest, most people wear crap), but cards can lead to all kinds of nastily profitable shenanigans.
[Breadmaster] How about the sense of guilt? Doing something you know to be wrong makes you feel guilty. So, to put it another way, if something makes you feel guilty, it's something you feel to be immoral (this can be irrationally so, of course, insofar as any morality can be said to have a rational basis). Obviously, this isn't objective because different people feel guilt for different things.
[Darren] Ok, one can imagine how to make a lot of money at street crime, but I seriously doubt if anyone does. It's just not a real career option for anyone wanting to do more than just live hand to mouth.
[Bm] What is a "should"? What are commands? The moral person would no more thrust his hand into another's pocket than into a nest of vipers. Shoulds and commands are for those who lack insight and must be told what to do. I have not (yet) read Aristotle (is this the Nicomachean Ethics?), but morality as enlightened prudence sounds right to me.
1815 GREEN
You see - you can prove it, with one of these. You just need to know the wavelength of the light which will tell you where it is on teh spectrum which will (in most cases) be able to be proved to be a certain colour (except for those "No it's yellow" "no it's not it's orange" conversations.)
[st d] Whether you can prove it or not wasn't the point - it was whether you needed to prove it, or indeed whether you even needed to know a proof was possible.
of course - silly me.
[st d] Well done though.
You can't step into the same conversation twice...
Wow, this moves fast...
Raak] If by the case of Iraq you mean the resistance against the US/British occupation, then I'd agree that they are morally justified (without necessarily meaning that each and every one of the resitance's actions are morally justified). I suspect that's not what you mean though.
I think the core problem here is where you say "That is the key difference between empirical knowledge and moral knowledge: one is demonstrable and the other is not." If moral knowledge is not demonstrable in some way, then how do we learn it, other than by faith? And given that there are lots of possible belief systems, many of which disagree very strongly with each other, how do we distinguish between right and wrong belief systems?

Darren] I still don't see how you can know whether a proof is possible, without knowing how you are testing it.
[Irouléguy] I think we've moved slightly from rulesets to proofs... the thing is, I don't think you need to prove a mapping is anything other then a mapping. It could be totally arbitrary, with no proof possible, but as long as you had a consistent mapping from one category to another, or, as I said above, a subset of one to a subset of the other, then that's sufficient. A ruleset doesn't need to be grounded in the real world to be a ruleset. It can be entirely abstract, but as long as it doesn't contradict itself then that's good enough as far as the logical proposition is concerned.
[Irouléguy] Indeed it wasn't! This may be getting into the stuff of flame wars, but I had in mind (as you no doubt guessed) the removal of Saddam as the moral act, and cannot see any of the resistance "actions" (i.e. suicide bombing, suicide bombing, and suicide bombing) as moral acts, especially given that the resistance is coming from the Sunni minority whose goal is Islamic dictatorship. Which of their actions do you think are morally justified?
       How do we learn morality? Upbringing, practical experience, revelation, and reason applied to those. As someone once put it: "If you get it, it will be in spite of any method. You must have a method."
self-defeating post :-)
[Raak] Hm, I don't think I'll bother continuing with this. Nothing you've suggested as an example needs more explanation than simply that humans enact moral (and legal) consequences upon one another according to the collective effect of shared or accumulated beliefs. This is the main reason muggers (nowadays) can have little success (even ignoring the fact that poverty is probably as much a cause of mugging as vice versa). Sure, all this might be the manifestation of some deeper mechanism, but it could just as easily be a bottom-up emergent phenomenon (rab can correct my terminology if I'm using this expression wrongly) that arises out of our brain chemistry and its interactions with the environment etc. etc. From what we know, this seems to me the most conservative and most available explanation. Why invoke absolute good, absolute evil? It still seems to me that you might as well invoke God. Certainly the notion of absolute good and evil, once you start trying to define them to the letter (in the case of say, the actions of Iraq's invaders and Iraq's resistance), admit of as many conceptual problems as the notion of God. Unless you can tell us more about the reasons for your willingness to entertain your leap of faith (and you've said you can't), I feel we're really just pushing words around.
More word-pushing.
[rab] Good idea re defining morality. We could take our pick from the 11 definitions, some claimed obsolete, offered by the OED. The ones it thinks are current are:
  • Moral virtue; behaviour conforming to moral law or accepted moral standards, esp. in relation to sexual matters; personal qualities judged to be good.
  • Moral discourse or instruction; a moral lesson or exhortation. Also: the action or an act of moralizing.
  • Conformity of an idea, practice, etc., to moral law; moral goodness or rightness.
  • The quality or fact of being morally right or wrong; the goodness or badness of an action.
  • The branch of knowledge concerned with right and wrong conduct, duty, responsibility, etc.; moral philosophy, ethics.
  • A particular moral system or outlook; moral thought or conduct in relation to a particular form of activity.

Rather a hazy selection, no?
[Projoy] Quite. I had a think about definitions, came up with one and devised a framework for thinking about this whilst queuing in the bank this morning. Then the teller muttered something about ISAs and it all vanished. Oh dear. I also have more pressing things to worry about, in that I have in two weeks an interview for a job I really, really want and for which I expect the competition to be fierce. So I really need to pull out the stops, so if you don't hear from me it's cos I'm doing my homework.
Not posting on MC sites! Is this moral? :)
[rab] Morality: that which does not involve ISAs.
[Projoy] "Emergent phenomenon" isn't an alternative to other explanations -- it exists alongside them. For example, I am of the opinion that the mind is literally a physical process of the brain, which assembles itself by knowable (though currently almost entirely unknown) physical processes, so all the stuff we do is an emergent phenomenon of the molecules. That doesn't mean that that stuff -- thoughts, sensations, consciousness, etc. -- doesn't exist, although discoveries about the physical stuff can call into question our naive ideas about our experiences of our minds.
       As a last remark, I don't want to give the impression of hinting at mysterious mystical revelations (and I cynically suspect that a lot of accounts of such are describing nothing more mysterious than a minor stroke). The experiences that I can find no adequate way of communicating are no more than a few personal development courses I've taken, following which some religious language became a lot more comprehensible, and reading in a couple of quasi-religious traditions of disputed provenance (the works of Gurdjieff and Idries Shah).
*sound of penny dropping*
Ahh. So you're saying that objective morality is a high-level description for a de facto emergent phenomenon? Well, we agree, then! It's only if you're insisting it's transcendent of the nuts and bolts of human behaviour and psychology that we have a fundamental disagreement.
I did say I'd shut up, didn't I? I will now shut up.
[Projoy] Actually, I'm agnostic about what it is. It might be that, and it might not be.
[Raak] You're right in a literal sense that "commands" are for those who need to be told what to do, but the point I was trying to make is that morality, if it is real, is normative. That is, it carries an implicit command in itself, irrespective of whether anyone is standing there articulating it. If it is true that there are people with moral insight who can "see" these truths, then they would also be able to "see" this implicit command and respond to it one way or the other (would you, incidentally, accept the existence of people with moral insight who nevertheless act wrongly?). Enlightened prudence (and yes, it's the "Nic Eth" I was thinking of, but any other kind too) doesn't cover it. When people say "Murder is wrong" they don't mean that it's in your interest (or even in the general interest) not to murder people - they mean that it's wrong, that you shouldn't do it, not even in an extraordinary case where it's beneficial. That's what Crime and Punishment is about. I haven't seen any argument explaining why, in the example given before, a soldier should sacrifice himself for his friends. I haven't even seen an argument explaining why I should not murder. I can imagine an argument setting out the undesirable effects of my murdering, but that's not the same thing. Jesus said "Seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these other things will be given to you" - but he meant that happiness comes as a result of doing what's right, that is, as a reward. He didn't mean that happines literally is doing right, and I wouldn't have thought many people would either. Purely from an empirical standpoint, how many people would agree that the happiest people in world are also the most moral?
[Darren] The guilt point is a good one, but you'd have to argue that the guilt of doing something you believe to be bad would always outweigh any happiness you derived from the benefits of the bad act, which I think would be unlikely - people generally rationalise such things eventually. Plus, of course, it's no use when trying to make an objective account of morality, as you point out, because different people feel guilty about different things.
A shame Projoy's bowing out as I think he's been entirely right throughout this. But like him I'm not sure that much headway is being made in any direction, so perhaps I'll do the same!
[Bm] In which case, perhaps it's time to draw the whole question of "what is morality" to a close.
[Bm] Here's a thought: if immoral actions are those which we feel guilty about, then perhaps as guilt wears off the actions become less immoral! Has anyone ever claimed that a given action is (im)moral for perpetuity, or is it allowed for its status to change with time? Note that I'm not putting this idea of transient immorality forward as anything too serious, I'm just playing around with the concept to see what happens.
After all, most people would say (I think) that once you've done a particular immoral action once or twice, it becomes easier to do it later. I'm talking here about personal morality rather than any kind of universal morality, of course.
[Bm] "Command", "normative force", and "should" are just different labels for the same thing, whatever that thing is, if it exists. You can't get an ought from an is, so there are no arguments proving that one should do this or that, except from assumptions about what one should or should not do. There isn't an argument proving that you should get out of the way of a car either, only a description of the consequences, on the basis of which everyone is free to make their own response to the situation. "Enlightened prudence" (with an emphasis on the enlightened) doesn't bridge that gap, but neither does anything else. The only way to get there is to be there.
[Raak] Well, that is precisely one of the key reasons for supposing there is no such thing as objective moral truth!
Coming in during Dinner
Some people don't seem to have quite got the hang of this, you could say.
[Bm] I left moral truth off that list, because although one view is that it's just another name for the same thing, in the view I'm arguing, it isn't. It's...it's moral truth, that's what it is! And one still has a choice about whether to follow it or not.
talking of dinner
Last night I had dinner at a nice restaurant called Baltic, with , among others, Sarah Atkins, who is Head of Legal at London Underground.
[st dogmael] Did you ask her about the meaning of morality?
Yes. She said that it was buried deep in the foundations of the Jubilee Line Extension, somewhere near Canary Wharf, and that LU owned the IP rights to it.
gatsos
got hit with one on the M4 on Friday eveniing - doing 45ish in a temporary roadworks 40mph zone. BATFISH.
Greetings from deepest Vermont, where the speed limit is 25mph and the hire car does almoat 20 mph without complaining. And the weather's pretty bloody hot too.
[st d] Why do I suspect that when you add "-ish" to your speed, you actually mean "+30"? :-)
Well I've just got back from Inverness and a lovely time I had too, despite it being work. It appears the Highlands haven't yet discovered speed cameras if the taxi I got from the airport was anything to go by. Rab might be interested to know the flightpath in takes you directly over Inverness Sewerage Treatment Works.
[Botherer] Did you buy a cape?
speed estimates
CdM] Funnily enough, loud mouthed as I am, I do try to drive safely. The signs were all over saying 40MPH SPEED CAMERAS etc etc so I dropped to about 50, then saw the camera and braked and got flashed so I assume I was doing about 45. To be honest I would have braked a hell of a lot harder and probably been okay if I though it would have been safe but there were cars behind me. (a speeding tikcet, caught on camera, with brake lights showing and a Nissan crashed up my ass and HGVs jackknifing left right and centre would have been a bad look)
Cameras
I was almost caught by a static camera on my way into Liverpool on Sunday; I'd been travelling down the East Lancs road at 40 (the limit), and always forget that it changes to 30 on a ridiculous junction where it's really far more prudent to be looking at the five con/di-verging pieces of road (and persons alongside/between them) than at the signage and the speedometer. It remains a 30 zone, with no real need to be so. I only thought to ask my girlfriend on imminent approach to the camera what the limit was at that point, and I think I managed to take 10mph off before it could see my plate (there were no flashes that I could discern). Thankfully there was no-one close behind. The camera is placed on a flyover between the run-offs to and from one of the tunnels, so again my concentration really would be more use on other aspects of my driving than the speedometer and signage.

I was also pulled over for the first time on the M62 on Friday for (in my eyes, obviously) mostly unjustified reasons, at least partially caused by the officer doing the pulling. Thankfully he was only in the mood to administer a lecture, and then had to extricate me from the far more dangerous situation he'd left me in - he'd pulled me over behind a broken down van in the hard shoulder on a exit filter lane to Warrington. This involved both of us reversing down the hard shoulder(!), then him madly waving people out of the filter lane before pulling out into it at 3mph(!) so that I could get out and 'safely' build speed and pull back out of the filter-off lane. Which I'm fairly sure is an offense, due to the markings on the road, but that was what he'd told me to do(!).

I wrote an overly long-winded explanation. Click here to see it. I pretty much know what's going on around me, even when I haven't been able to see into a spot for a second or two. It's called induction and extrapolation. Well, I think it is, and on that point I think I'm in pretty much the ideal place for correction. Sorry, I needed to vent. My girlfriend got sick of it after about half an hour.

[PJ] Cape and Top Hat, brushed up my tails...
coptastic
nik] he sounds like a cunt of the very first order. You should write a letter of complaint.
If he'd actually booked me for something, then maybe. As it was, he just seemed to be something of a busy-body. I think I've pretty much worked it out of my system now. Only taken a week! :/
(Nik) Dear me, pulled over by a bumptious cop and given a lecture. Get over it FFS.
Er, did I not say I'd gotten over it? In the post before yours? Which was days before your post? In response to st d, posting several days after my original post? Can I direct statements including the word 'fuck' at you too? Can I? It's big and clever.
orders of c....
nik] sounds like he didnt give you a ticket because he knew he wouldnt get away with it. Still ranks pretty highly with me or he wouldn't have pulled you over at all.
(Nik) Try www.upmyownarse/pettymotoringwhinges.com
[Rosie] Careful now, it's been a pleasingly long time since we had a full-blown flamewar.
[Projoy] Don't worry, I've never been good at flamewars. They require far too much effort and a short-term memory capable of remembering that I'm participating in one.
driven up the wall
[pettymotoringwhinges] Yes please! I have loads . . .
flamewars
not sure i ever remember one on here, it does seem that you are spoiling needlessly for a reaction though, rosie.
(Projoy) No flamewar. I've made my point, which stands.
Point standing?
No, I'm sorry, Rosie. A point simply isn't stable; it would tip over.
[SM] It depends which way up you stand it.
(SM, Darren) Points mean prizes. (wearily) What do points mean?
hooray. I would like to win a very fast loud car and drive it about extremely fast with music blaring.
[st d] If the exhaust drops off your Peugeot and you point it downhill with Take That turned up to full bifters, that's what you'll have.
Peugeot Exhausts
[pen] Shirley you mean when the exhaust drops off your Peugeot?
[Botherer] Have you seen the amount of string holding St D's Peugeot's exhaust on?
string
that's not string, that's plastic bags wound round lots of times.
Phew wot a humid scorcher
I was up at 0530 this morning (another of my apparently weekly trips to Heathrow to collect/deliver people) and it was 17 degrees. I still think the best summer holiday I had was in the Arctic Circle. I'll bore you with temeperature updates and whinges throughout the day...
[pen] You are joking, right...?
[CDM] Nope. I have the build of an eskimau
Eskimo Nell
(pen) As long as you don't have their washing habits (nil). It's going to get a lot hotter over the weekend but you can avoid it by yet another trip to Heathrow or wherever and flying to "the uttermost part of the earth" (EasyJet, £5). See http://groups-beta.google.com/group/uk.sci.weather Mine is the first post in a thread marked "Cold Stuff". Maybe a bit technical/anorakky.
[pen] To be clear, my disbelief didn't concern the arctic circle vacation (I remember a wonderful trip to Lapland in midsummer) but the idea that 17 degrees is remotely warm, even at 05:30. Even for an eskimo.
[CdM] I sound like a complete marshmallow, but 17 degrees is at the point where I find it difficult to sleep. Flerdle will scoff...
[CdM] 17 degrees is quite warm enough for me, I can tell you. And you know where I'm going to be a month from today! Ha! Oh dear...
hahahahahahahahaha I win.

*scoffs*

[oblig weather report] "Normal" temperature range here now is 30 to 40°C, often about 5 degrees higher, with daytime humidity usually around 60%, higher at night. It was 35°C at midnight one day last week.

Yes, of course we use airconditioners, to bring the inside temperature down to somewhere in the mid to high 20s, and to dry out the air, and to avoid situations like the one on Wednesday night when (presumably) the freezer electrics overheating in the grocery store below our flat caused a fire that almost burnt down the building. I'm not surprised it happened, because they've never bothered to kept the shop cool enough. They're paying for it now.

During the heatwave in Bris at the start of last year, I found my "can't really sleep" point was almost exactly 23°C. Even one degree lower helps.

I don't know how I'm going to cope with Tasmania in early August.

(Re 23°C: things like humidity, fans, etc would vary it, but it was interesting observing my sleeping patterns and correlating it to temperature, at that time. Hey, I was stuck in the wrong country for two months, I needed something to do. I'm not about to redo the "experiment" if I can help it. Also, here we probably have the aircons set a bit lower than I said above. We don't have a thermometer or hygrometer, so I have to go by reported temperatures, but I have no reason to think they fib.)

I have a nice little chart which shows the apparent temperature, given the humidity and environmental temperature. Fascinating reading. For example, the other day when it was 40°C and 50% humidity, for most people that gives an apparent temperature of about 55°C, or 63° if you're in full sun (that's 145°F, if you needed the conversion).

Yum.

Sleep temperatures
(flerdle) No air-conditioning in this house and the temperature in my bedroom now (9.45 pm) is 25. We've had quite a warm day. The next few nights will be warmer still - probably 27 or so in this room but to me that's no problem. You just wake up a bit sweaty, that's all.
That's quite hot
I don't know how I'd cope with 40°C, but I dream of temperatures reaching 30something here! Far too seldom.
Chilling out
[flerdle] You had best put on some weight. Tassie in August is going to be right nippy I would think.
Our snowfields finally received a dump or two over the last few days - about 500mm according to reports - so it looks like the monied classes will have something to play in again this year. Locally the nights are cooling off (4.5°C minimum last night) but the days are fine and, unfortunately, dry. The dam levels for the Sydney area are down to about 38% of capacity - not great when you have 4 million plus people relying on the supply. Water restrictions have been tightened again. Some towns west of the divide are now having to cart water in from afar. I feel for the poor farmers. There are five year old children in some areas who have never seen rain.
Yeah, thought you would be interested. Sorry.
Scepticism
(Dujon) Has there really been a 5-yr absolute drought in parts of Oz that normally receive at least some rain from time to time? Possible, I suppose. The variability is greater than in the UK. It's been dry here too, at least in the south. At Maison Rosie there have been 7 dry months running and the total is under 60% of normal for that spell and there's now a hosepipe ban. Such hardship! But why should people think they can lay water out to dry? It's a finite resource.
Correction
Sorry, Rosie, I should have typed 'four-year-olds'. But, yes, it's true, and I'm not commenting on desert areas. Even where I live it's not particularly good. This calendar year (Jan & Feb tend to be our storm months) we have had 126/144.5/61/20.5/22 and, so far this month, 0.5 mm of precipitation. Some of this arrives in bucketsfull - we had 35mm and 30mm land on different days of Jan., 38.5mm twice in Feb. and another of 54mm (the 22nd; this followed one of the 38.5mm days), 14.5mm, 12mm and 19mm on separate March days. Since then we've had 13 days on which it rained, the maximum being 7mm on May 18th.
Put your scepticism back in the wallet and save it for a rainy day. ;-)
[Rosie] We really should find a thermometer and see what it is in here; in any case, it's not 18°C. I suspect I've become better able to tolerate heat, including while sleeping, but I still don't like it.
[Dujon] I have been :-(
Dumper truck
Call me Mr Purile, but I'm always amused when people concerned with snowfall talk about "good dumps".
Drought and sweat
(Dujon) OK. It's just that I'm a natural sceptic, based on the "95% is bollocks" principle, but this forum has a greater percentage of truth-tellers than most, I'd say. Your total comes to 370 mm or so which is a lot less than the 600 mm that Sydney is supposed to have in that period. But are you in Sydeny itself? The figure for Richmond is only 420 mm for the same period. But I suppose any deficit is serious if it's part of a long-term dry spell. (flerdle) Yes, I can't believe 18°C in your tropical paradise. I'd find that decidedly chilly. (rab) Carry on! I am equally caused to giggle when people say they had to evacuate to avoid some imminent weather disaster. Scared the shit out of them, in other words.
I can't see anything amiss with using 'dump' in such a context. One meaning of the word is 'to put down heavily', which sums up heavy falls of rain/snow/whatever. Perhaps it would have been more correct to have said 'was dumped'? My apologies for mangling the language.
I'll have to check my records, Rosie. Unfortunately I took the trouble to transfer my data from notebooks to a computer spreadsheet program and promptly lost it all when a hard drive failed. Naturally gubbins here hadn't got around to backing up the files. There were about fifteen years of it and I've not had the inclination to do it all again. I'd have to find the notebooks, too (no doubt they'll be in a 'safe place'). I'm about the same distance from Sydney as is Richmond - 80 Km/50 miles - but with about 1000' extra elevation and 30 Km south-ish.
Further to that lot, Rosie, if you are interested then look here for information on current Sydney dam levels.
The bit found here includes a small reference to Goulburn (I could drive there in less than an hour and a half - I think). It's not quite up to date as the town has tapped the aquifiers and is using 'grey' and recycled water quite extensively. Strange though it may seem, much of the recycled stuff is used for keeping the sporting fields operational - combined with water carted in to the town (at some considerable expense to the clubs involved).
I won't bore (sorry) others on this site with useless chatter, I'll send an e-mail in the next few days. I noticed that London is expecting well over 30°C today (Sunday) and will ask you a couple of questions about it. That sort of reading is becoming seriously warm.
[Dujon] There's nothing grammatically wrong with using the word "dump" in that way - it's just highly amusing to those of us with the minds of small boys. Maybe Australians don't use the word in - ah - that sense? I'm most surprised!
generalised dumping
[Bm] I don't think we do, really.
[Breadmaster] Ah, yes! No, it's not common here and so went straight over my head. Rosie's evacuation quip should have alerted me. :-(
Heat
(Dujon) You're up! So am I. It was 30.6 here at Hughes Hall (southern edge of London, 600 ft) but the highest was 32.6 at Heathrow, a bit suspect due to all that concrete. Some tasty thunderstorms in the north but nothing here. Outside it's stuck at 21 and not a breath of wind, and 28 in this room. No bedclothes tonite, Josephine.
tasmania
why are you going to dear old tassie flerlde ? where you going ? have you been before ? tassie is one of my favorite places.
tasmaina
Just visiting a relative, in Hobart; not sure what we'll actually do. Should be a bit different. Second week of August. I've always wanted to visit, but it's been a bit far away ( = expensive to get to) for just a holiday.
AVMA
This game has died. Either that or Gusset Login has. If he's not there later today I'll start it myself and you'll all suffer. :-)
AVMA
You're safe. He's back.
[Rosie] But everyone else has gone. Hellloooo?
I'm lurking!
Lurking
I'd like to play more but as I can't access MC5 from work (apparently Websense thinks it's a game!) I feel reluctant to contribute.
Snow jobs
In exciting news just to hand: It's snowing. Well, not here, but where my wife works, which is a half hour drive to my west in a place called Katoomba. This, I suspect, will mean that PaulWay will be taking anti-chilblain precautions due to his location in cold Canberra. Sorry for the exuberance - most of it stems from the fact that I'm glad I'm not there.
(Dujon) Latest from Canberra is 6°C. BTW how high is Katoomba? I can see why it's a bit cold from the excellent animations from the Bureau of Metorology, which show a series of charts and loads of other data too. The Americans, via NOAA, also provide this kind of thing, and for the whole world. Not a dicky bird from our own UK Met Office, which has now completely abandoned all idea of public service. It sells forecasts to the BBC at a huge price and operates purely on a commercial basis. It is about to shut down all non-military outstations, including weather centres. The archives are not online and its website is minimalist, quite unlike other countries' services. Its attitude to the public is "up yours - you don't pay". It is despised by all its former employees, including this one, and by a good proportion of its present ones, except the accountants, probably. The poison was first injected by Thatcher and further heavy doses have been enthusiastically administered under that prick Blair. A heap of shite and a national disgrace.
[Rosie] Katoomba? About 1000 metres, give or take a few. It's not particularly elevated in world terms but is in those of Australia. I'm approximately 270 m.a.s.l. (which is close to, but not quite, 1000' a.s.l.). Please keep in mind that Mt. Kosciuszko, our highest point, is a mere 2228 metres above sea level and that you can pretty well drive there.
Last night was 'nippy' here - about 2.5°C - and as I write it seems about 11°C (it's approx 13:30 local). That reading comes from an electronic device and one in which I invest little credibility - though it's probably close. Whatever, it most surely is cold for this part of the world.
prescience
[Dujon] PaulWay is in the Caribbean at the moment, or possibly the west coast of the US.
*is not jealous of the antipodeans' sub-10-degree-centigrade temperatures at all, oh no...* 20 degrees C here (NW London) at 09.00 this morning, with a high of 32C or 90F expected today. Thank goodness I'm working outside for the next couple of days. I think...
(Dujon) Thanks. Along with penelope I could do with a bit of that. Just popped out to the screen - it's 29°, dewpoint 17°, i.e. sweaty. Almost no wind and the sky is full of heavy cirrus, which should stop it getting any hotter but might stop it cooling down much this evening, alas. Tomorrow's forecast is for all hell to be let loose (thunderstorms). It looks rather tasty, but we'll see. Only 6 mm rain here this month. Good, no gardening needed. Concerning my earlier rant my sources in the Met Office seem to have been reliable; see http://northtonight.grampiantv.co.uk/content/default.asp?page=s1_1_1&newsid=6898 You can get UK Met Office charts but only via the University of Karlsruhe.
[Pen] Bah! Luxury. It has topped 32oC every day (Except Weds)this week here in the Avon Valley. 19oC ish at night. I have been sleeping out on the lawn (in my sleeping bag) all week - listening to the hedgehogs fan themselves.
[flerdle] PaulWay must indeed have a sixth sense - good luck to him. Drifting around the east coast or west coast of the U.S. of A. sounds somewhat idyllic - unless there're cyclones or earthquakes.
[Rosie] That does sound a bit, well, short sighted? I can most certainly understand the concerns of local industries - fishing, oil rigs and the like - as I have always felt that local knowledge in these matters is a significant asset. Yesterday Katoomba had a temperature range of -1°C to 3°C. Given my wife's earlier account I thought I'd gird my loins and drive up to bring her home (she often has to walk to the station - a good half hour walk and all up hill). Not having been to her place of employ previously I got flummoxed in the back street up and down dale topography. Enough so as to miss her. I then hurtled up to the railway station and again missed. Most sad. There was, however, a light side to this epic voyage of discovery: Just about everyone I saw in the main street of the town wore a beany, many were wearing fleecy lined jackets (some with Alaskan style fur collars/hoods) whilst little old me was wearing my usual short-sleeved shirt with a cardigan for insurance and no hat. It was most assuredly cold and I would not have liked to wander around for an hour in that garb, but it did make me chuckle.
To make things worth, by the way, thinking that my wife's train was long gone by the time I rediscovered my home territory, I took a cursory glance at the railway station as I passed and, seeing no one of interest, carried on home. I was advised fifteen minutes later - in no uncertain terms - that I'd driven straight past the poor lass. Honestly, you can't win.
lithping
s/worth/worse.
Blue Mountains
[Dujon] I have to say that I think you have the good fortune to live in one of the most beautiful parts of the world that I have ever seen.
[BtD] Sleeping outside? Is your house better or still falling down?
bool- house is fine, just very hot. please excuse the formatting, this is being posted from a mobile.
[CdM] I had gathered you'd been here, but hadn't realised that you had visited the 'mountains'. Though they are not very high there are some majestic parts of them, for sure. I'm pleased that you enjoyed the place.
[All] I hope that everyone else has had some relief from your oppressive weather - I know from experience that it can be quite ennervating, especially the 'getting to sleep' bit. Urrk. As a matter of interest, Bob the dog, if you were escaping the heat then why the sleeping bag? You have me intrigued.
Full moon
Dujon] Its a summerbag - simply for keeping the dew off - not that there has been much. There is also the discretion factor as I sleep in view of neighbours who are very good friends of ours - but who would probably be offended by the sight of my lack of attire. Come to think of it - a topic of conversation here in the UK recently has been the unusally large moon close to the horizon...
the great outdoors
[BtD] So do you hop out the back door in your sleeping bag, sack-race style, or do you tiptoe out once you think they're asleep?
Full Moon
(Btd) The moon, full or otherwise, always looks big when close to the horizon. It's an optical illusion, which nobody can really explain. If you actually measured it you would find it's smaller near the horizon than when high in the sky, other things being equal. This is a simple geometrical effect.
Moon river
[Rosie] No, I think, surely, you would find that the Moon is the same size in the sky no matter whether it's high or low. After all, it only takes a few hours for it to rise or set - it's not going to change in apparent size as it does so. The apparent growth of the Moon when near the horizon is of course some kind of psychological effect.

The reason the Moon has been looking even bigger than usual near the horizon this week is that full moon has coincided (almost) with midsummer. The Moon is full when it is opposite the sun in the sky. The sun is at its highest at midsummer. Therefore, if the Moon is full at midsummer, it will be as close to the horizon as it ever gets whilst being full. Therefore the "Mendex" or Moon Illusion is at its strongest.
When I say that the Moon doesn't change in apparent size while rising or setting, I mean that the area of sky that it covers surely doesn't change. Obviously its apparent size does change because it looks bigger closer to the horizon, but it extends over the same arc of the sky (and indeed of the retina).
The moon should appear to be smaller when on the horizon than when at the zenith. Reason? It is further away when viewed at a tangent to the Earth's surface than from a perpendicular. This slight change is measurable though unlikely to be noticed by a casual observer.
Why we generally perceive a full moon to be larger on its rising as opposed to when it is high in the sky has often been said to be as a result of it being in proximity to our more normally observed everyday horizon (trees, buildings, horizon line) than when it's clear of such. In other words the sense of scale becomes more evident.
Moon size
(Breadmaster) Dujon has explained what I meant by the "geometrical effect". The moon is measurably about 1.7% larger in apparent diameter when overhead than when on the horizon, other things being equal. We're simply closer to it when it's overhead. The same applies to the sun, strictly speaking, but as the distance of the sun is 23500 earth radii the effect is barely measurable even with instruments.
Peter Greenaway
reference is made to: http://petergreenaway.co.uk/games.htm

Many of the films of Peter Greenaway, at least the feature films that I have seen, have the structure of games. The best example is probably Drowning by Numbers. I have only recently discovered MC and I find the similarity to Hangman's Cricket to be striking. Does anyone know whether Greenaway has played MC?

[Rosie] Sorry to steal your thunder, old son, but Breadmaster's comment had been sitting for quite a few hours without response.
[Effable] Hello. I cannot answer your question but, on the law of averages, my guess would be 'yes'. The reason for that is that I believe I'm the only person on Earth who hasn't played a serious game of M.C..
(Duj) No problem, mate. I've never played MC, either live or on these sites. It is essentially a performance in which the audience and panel enter into a mutual conspiracy about the complexity of the rules. Very few people I know have ever heard of it, which is rather disappointing. You could go up to anyone over the age of about 40 in this country and say "Bal-ham", and the almost instantaneous response would be "Gateway to the South", but say "Mornington Crescent" and you'd get mostly blank looks.
[Breadmaster] I just re-read your earlier post vis-à-vis (sorry!) full moon and the midsummer situation. This is not true. On average there are thirteen full moons per year. As viewed from Earth (the Sun always 'sees' a full moon) such an event can only be seen from one point on Earth and will happen at a specific time. To be technically correct a proper full moon will only occur during a total lunar eclipse, which is when the Sun, Earth and Moon are truly aligned - even then it can only be termed a 'full moon' by a person standing/sitting/lying on the direct line between the Sun, Earth and Moon at the time that this occurs.
Ooh Arr, hello Rosie. Simulpost.
I trust you agree with my little piece on celestial mechanics? Or have I mislead myself?
conspiracy
[Rosie] Well, I'm very nearly fifty and I only learned of the existence of MC a few days ago. Now I'm hooked. It is as though it had been out there waiting for me to discover it, seems so right, so well suited to my motley talents. It doesn't bother me that it is so obscure. That is part of the appeal. And I am confident that many people have played MC without knowing what it is called. The pattern is a common one in many circles with intellectual pretensions.
Sprung
[Effable]
"... The pattern is a common one in many circles with intellectual pretensions."

Your research, Sir or Madam, is exemplary. Welcome to the world of wannabees, couldavebeens and mightwellbees. I suspect that you will fit quite well into this society of misfits and miscreants. As a relative newcomer to the M.C. world myself, I'm quite sure that you will understand the deep and meaningful discussions, the amazing word play and generally unintelligible literary references which pepper this and other M.C. sites. Should I be correct then maybe you could help me out when I get stuck?
[Dujon] Yes, of course technically you're correct about the full moon - I was using the term in the slightly vernacular sense, meaning the moon when it is as full as it is getting this month, as it were.
Living in Norfolk and often driving through the fens, I have frequently seen "full" moons on the horizion and they never look any bigger than when it is up in the sky. The moon does look huge however when it is a very fine crescent rising just before or setting just after the sun on a red sky.
mooning.
[Boolbar] Do you have only one good eye? The "moon illusion" is much less if you close one eye (or really only see well out of one), or stand on your head. If you don't want to stand on your head, you could bend over and look through your legs. Noone would think you're strange. Honest.
[flerdle] No-one is normal in Norfolk, so such behaviour would be ignored, or even actively encouraged. I have two good eyes last time I looked, although one looked bigger than the other . . . .
[Boolbar] Does the eye look bigger when it's closer to the horizon?
Sprang
[Dujon] I answer to neither Sir nor Madam but will admit to the y chromosome. It is possible that my participation will be of some small benefit to the community.
Full moons and chromosomes
(Duj) Strictly speaking you're correct but the term Full Moon is used, even technically, to mean that the ecliptic longitude of the moon is 180° more (or less) than the sun, whatever its latitude (-5° at the last full moon). (Effable) To save you putting your foot in it, so to speak, I too must admit to the Y-chromosome. There is at least one other person here who does the same. But beware; there are people here with no Y-chromosome whatever, some, moreover, with non-gender-specific monickers. Truly a minefield. :-)
Stale games
This site has had the same games on the front page for an offally long time. Time for a bit of turnover, perhaps?
stereotypes
[Rosie] I really don't mind. I'll watch my step and try to be PC.
[SM] You Know You're Getting Old... is unkillable
[SM] S'true. We've tried everything.
Which, I suppose, is ironic in a way. You know you're getting old when you stop caring about killing games, since you expect even the short ones to outlive you.
Death to...
I have tried to dispose of the Furcation game, but we have another non-standard winning move situation.
I think that one might be protected by administrative fiat. Still, I must admit that the prospect of my ever making the promised move is not getting greater as time goes on.
By Thunder!
Wow - last night in Herts was the most spectacular display of lightning... torrential rain, at least half an inch... whoooo-wee! Marvellous. Anyone else get anything ?
[pen] I got a nice bit of fish for tea.
[pen] I got a squash racket for my birthday.
castrated ram
[pen] I got leaks. The lightning was rather good though, very blue in colour.
Balls
Pen] Notmrsbobthedog claims to have seen ball lightning. She was out making sure the chickens were safe when there was a massive boom. Looking up she saw what she described as a lightbulb-shaped white glow which hung in the air for a few seconds after the strike.

Meanwhile, I was stuck in Brum, attempting to get the train back after a trip to York. I was sat in a metal hanger during the best of the storm. Sadly, the Selfridges building escaped divine judgement. All trains (including mine) were cancelled for two hours due to the weather. I got home very late.
Goodness Gracious etc...
[Btd] woweee.
[Chalks] Good idea. I'd fish the fish out of the freezer if I was going to be in tonight, but Flatmate's mum is taking us out for dinner - local chinese does THE BEST Szechuan Stir-fried green beans with salt and pepper.
[Tuj] Happy Birthday. Are you going to play grown-up squash? ;o) I once got through to the country trials in my younger, squash-playing days, mainly due to my killer serve which I could drop dead in the back corner. Unfortunately the rest of my game let me down. But I enjoyed the acoustics in the squash court - my best friend and I would spend an hour singing songs from The Jam, Duran Duran, The Teardrop Explodes and Gary Numan rather than playing squash.
[Boolbar] Leaks? Oh dear. The husband of one of my colleagues, in the midst of a huge house-improvement project, of which he is very capable, chose yesterday to take off the roofs off their porch and garage. Ooops.
For those of you who are unfamiliar with Birmingham, here is an image of the Selfridges building on the new Bull Ring.

The term Bimbo architecture has been used in association with this building.
Bimbo Architecture means buildings designed to attract customers but lacking in architectural integrity. RIBA president Maxwell Hutchinson said: “Bimbo architecture has a big smile and a pretty face but nothing between the ears. It is ‘hi-tech’ architecture without the tech and with an exclamation mark after the ‘Hi’ “.
Bimbo architecture
Wow, that's ugly. I don't think the lens helped here but still ... are people expected to shop here or is it an office building? It looks like something from a bad SciFi movie. "The Blob That Ate Bull Ring!"
[Effable] I've never been there but I understand it is for shopping and not purely offices. For what it's worth, I quite like it.
speaking from experience
Bull Selfridges Ring - it's much nicer in the flesh.
What a visual insult! Come friendly bombs and fall on Birmingham. It makes Croydon look like a pretty little market town, which it ain't.
At the risk of offending someone, that looks about as attractive as a beached whale.
[Duj and other detractors] Like most things - the edifice needs to be viewed in context.

[pen : hot beans] - how's your digestive system this morning?

[Chalky] But OTOH, I like it just on its own. [Btd] I can't resist asking (in the typical debate-starting manner) why this bit of architecture is less intelligent than, say, St Paul's Cathedral. The best reason I can think of is that while this building looks like a jokily scaled-up sequinned amoeba, St Paul's Cathedral looks like, well, a cathedral - which depending on your POV suggests that Christopher Wren was less decadent than Future Systems. Also, some architecture critics have pointed out that Selfridge's is basically a shell-concept, with little of architectural interest inside it, so not a coherent bit of architecture? Are these your reasons for disliking it?
Architectural integrity
What does Maxwell Hutchinson mean by "architectural integrity"? To me, that would mean "it satisfies the purpose it was built for, keeps out the rain, and doesn't fall down", but he appears to have some moral concept in mind. Googling for some reviews of the place, I didn't see much mention of whether it works in that sense. I did see a lot of photography that one might accuse of lacking in architectural integrity, i.e. shots taken from unusual angles that give no idea of what the thing actually looks like.
St Paul's
[Projoy] Ever seen St Paul's from above? The facade is not part of the structure, so it's a shell just like Selfridges. It gives a nice impression from the street, but it's not what it appears to be.
The Beauty of Hot Beans
[Chalks] Perfect, thank you :o)
Projoy and debate] I'm not that good at debating well because I feel very strongly about some issues and have a tendency to be both self-righteous and politically correct. However, I will present my own reasons for disliking the Selfridges building and why I think that Maxwell Hutchinson quote on Bimbo Architecture is a spot on reference to it. I would not like to think that I have offended anyone (as I have done when I fail to understand why people should play golf, wash their car on a Sunday, get married, get pierced, get tattoos, wear high heels or do any of the other multitude of bizarre things people do unquestioningly in order to comply with a convention.

I have no idea whether St Paul’s is good Architecture. It has stood the test of time in terms of its foundations and stability, it is a huge and well laid out edifice with some stunning work by a range of crafts people, it has a fascinating and well documented history.

My first reaction to the Selfridges building was ‘wow!’ It really is impressive. It is not out of place and it fits the nature of what it contains. My issues are more to do with the nature of consumption to which it is a cathedral. In one respect, I can see that there is some validity in the design. The shallowness of the outside is perfectly complimented by what it contains.

There is no reason for its appearance other than to attract consumers. It is simply a fashion statement. I have no idea how long it will last, but if its predecessor (which was greeted with similar acclaim when it was built) is any reference, it will be pulled down in 2030 amid claims that it is an eyesore. The building materials may be novel, but are not sustainable or easily repaired or updated. There are already worn and grubby areas. Despite this, I hope that it does survive, as an historical reference to the fashion of the age and so that no more hardcore, plastic reinforced concrete and fibreglass is dug into land-fills and left to contaminate the countryside.

I have no issue at all with the look of the building (apart from the fact it will get very mucky very quickly) and I would have welcomed a far more radical design (something by Anish Kapoor would have been perfect) had there been any thought to social and environmental sustainability when it was built.
But (and at the risk of retreading the discussion about value in music) why should such a building have any purpose for its appearance other than to attract customers? And if an architect sits down and asks himself, "How can I make this building attract customers?" then why is that any less of an intellectual challenge than any other building purpose? Similarly, in what sense does it look "shallow"? I'd have thought that if it makes sense to talk about shallowness in building design, you'd apply it to buildings that are unoriginal or that look like everything else. I'd say that this building had an original and unusual appearance. Whether it is an attractive appearance or not, or one that is compatible with the good functioning of what goes on inside, is another matter, but I don't really see what "shallowness" or "integrity" or "bimboness" have to do with it.
[Bm] Well, I don't think Btd is saying a building should have a better reason for its appearance, simply that if it doesn't, he doesn't think much of it. The intelligence of architecture, I would imagine, is in the way it interacts with the intelligence of the people that use it (rather than just whether it's a brain workout for the architect, otherwise a Temple Grandin abbatoir would be great architecture). Thus if all the Selfridge's building does is to drag you in and make you spend some money, then that's not a very intelligent way to be treated. If, on the other hand, it inspires you with thoughts biology or maths, that's rather more intelligent. If it manages to combine intellectual stimulation and its function, and make those two things interrelate, then I guess it's very clever indeed.

[Btd] All seems fair enough, although I must say, I've never worn high heels simply in order to comply with convention.
Projoy] Nearly there. I agree whole heartedly with your phrase "If it manages to combine intellectual stimulation and its function, and make those two things interrelate, then I guess it's very clever indeed."
Bread] I agree that an architect may if s/he wishes choose to design a building with the sole purpose of attracting customers. In this case they have and I am led to believe that they glory in that. My issue is that I (personally) find that approach unethical. Regarding shallowness - I did not say that it looked shallow. It doesn't, it looks interesting. The concept is shallow - one dimensional. If Joseph Beuys had piled lard on a chair to sell lard, it may have succeeded for a while but it would have been quickly forgotten. For me, the Selfridges building is just that, only more blingy. And with consumer culture responsible for so many of the environmental and social ills of our time, disposable 'environments' are a trend I would not wish to support.
[Chalky] Don't take me too seriously, my comment was made from that one image. I'm quite sure that if I happened to be in the area I'd duck in and have a look at the interior.
Still looks like a beached whale though. :-)
Poo
I learnt today that I didn't get the job I spent ages and ages preparing for. That'll teach me.
commiserations
Awww - I didn't like to ask because I thought it might tempt fate ...
[Rab] but you still have the preparation. Surely it'll be useful the next time something comes up? But sorry to hear it anyway...
Kinda - next job will be in a totally different department with wildly different interests (might even be maths, rather than physics) and so a lot of the application and job talk will have to change accordingly.
At least I'll be a bit more prepared for the ridiculous questions they throw at you in the interview, though.
[Rosie] The drought has not broken, but it's most welcome - see here. I have been loath to say anything less I jinx the weather, but it seems to be clearing and I guess it's now safe to do so. Many farmers are rejoicing but others are forced to wait until they can get their machinery into the paddocks. As far as my local dams go, we'll have to see what run off finally arrives.
[rab] My sympathies, good sir.
Rain
(Duj) That's quite a splash, 150 mm in a week, and should be helpful. Back here the drought is slowly accumulating, the running 12-month total being just short of 600 mm instead of the normal 820 mm. And the two wettest months by far were last August and October. It's not desperate and no-one is going to die because of a hosepipe ban, even if a few plants do. But my raingauge needs some exercise, having got more in the way of seeds, dust and dead insects than water in it at the moment.
I broke my marching virginity today. And great fun it was too, waving placards. Having been exhorted to end capitalism now, all my future posts will be entirely in the lower case.
[Rab]Been There, Done That.
[rab] WHAT? I WON'T BE ABLE TO HEAR YOU.
[Rosie] You are in chalk country are you not? I would have thought that a 25+% drop in rainfall would have affected you more than most. We are still permitted to use hoses for gardening purposes twice per week (I think it's Wednesdays and Sundays - but I'd have to check), within limited hours, and it's breaking my green thumbed wife's heart.
It's ridiculously green out here (SW Qld). Green grass in winter, for pete's sake. The weather has really gone mad.
[rab] Marching virginity. Is that like galloping insomnia?
Anhydrous
(Duj) Yes, it's chalk, which is why there are no rivers on it, just hundreds of dry valleys. The water sinks in to become groundwater and is in effect a huge subterranean reservoir from which the water is drawn via boreholes. The problem is that it takes ages to top up again after a dry spell but short-term fluctuations tend to be ironed out. (Projoy) Certainly won't give you a running sore.
Taps hearing-aid battery and fiddles with the dial
I can't hear anyone :o(
[pen] I guess everyone is just too busy. Our phones at work have just failed. Horrah!
Busyness
I'm here, just more quietly. Even managed to slip past my birthday without anyone noticing, hahaha.
I'm on a conference.
pedant mode
[rab] How can you be on a conference? Shurely, you are at a conference? Discuss.
... and by the way
I am ON a chair as I type this, mainly because I'm still in my officey place working and not just lying on a bed with a laptop like sensible people do at this time of night.
[Tuj] Then allow me to make up for your modesty by shouting about my fortieth birthday which is on Sunday. British Grand Prix day, dammit. Garden party planned - Pimms with all the salad, chilled sparkling stuff, iced coffees, canapés etc... all welcome. Bring presents.
[Chalks] I was in bed with a laptop, as it happens, enjoying the BBC's 'Listen Again' features - a Hannay novel, 'Greenmantle' and then the programme about the life of Wellington. Brilliant stuff, and all usually bradcast while I'm at work. Only 25 years until I retire - I'm almost halfway there!
[pen] Spooky. I was thinking of you when I typed that :-)
Pedantically "on"
Anti-inflammatories, trombone, the right after the road junction, bitter. A useful little word.
Hey Pen! Congrats and all that! Oddly I will be in London on Sunday - at a fourtieth Birthday party.
deja vu
[penelope] Only a couple of years then before you can have your second 21st. ;-(
tempores mutantur
[Pen] If fifty is the new forty, then does that mean forty is the new fifty?
I'll kill a few braincells on Sunday in your honour - have a good one.
XL-ent
Yey! for being 40. All the best people are 40. ;o) [pen] Advanced Birthday Greetings from me. Have fun!
Wish I was there
[pen] Happy birthday for Sunday... would bring many exotic gifts, but am sadly geographically indisposed. Down a Pimms (or three) for me, ok?
[Everyone] thank you, thank you. Anyone wanting to drop by, from 1pm for food and drink, to junction 17 of the M25 (assuming the M25 is open) can email me for precise co-ordinates. My AOL.com email address is in my real name, Justine (2), and I'm New(1). Put (1) and (2) very close together in the correct order and add the suffix.
Addendum
Posted 12.45pm 06/07/05 It seems I may have some difficulty getting into London on Sunday. I hope everyone living and working there is safe. God, what an unbelievably callous act.
A blast-related discussion is taking place at MCiOS. Probably best if it's all kept in one place.
Addendum Addendum
07/07/05. Daft me.

rab] yes.
while reflecting on today's news, I am also aware that for me, life is good. I am currently in possession of two cups of hot tea (they're small cups and the kettle is about 30 feet away down the office) and a refrigerated gingernut biscuit. I can heartily recommend the combination.
Pen] Gingernuts are good, but have you tried Traidcraft's 'Extra Spicy' Fairtrade Stem Ginger Cookies? Great big galumphing bits of ginger in a fab cookie. Dunking heaven.
stem ginger... mmmmm. By the way, for those in search of the perfect gingernut, it's not a McVities specimen, nor the Spar shop own label, but Tesco's own which packs the most powerful punch, sufficient to sustain a morning hard at work.
pen] Happy birthday! I remember 40...sort of. And surely the perfect ginger-nut is one that has chocolate on it?
happy birthday
to dear, dear Tuj -

Happy Bithday to Ya (Happy Biiiirthday) Happy Birthday To Ya.

btd] re your 07/07 post - it strikes me, in a kind of gallows humour kind of manner, that the boys with the bombs maybe realised the whole 9/11 11/9 confusion, and did this day for us (oh thank you for your beautiful bombs you stupid stupid men) today of all days so that there would be no confusion either side of the pond........
London is shaken but, from where I sit, fine. Drove through the centre at 11pm and what glorious calm. God help those who were told their sisters and brothers died today, but fuck them that did it and who cares why they did it and lets carry on regardless. 2012 here we come.

Amen.
I'm in an agreeable mood, so I'm agreeing with what all the previous 6 posts said. [BtD] Ta for CD. I was too gloomy to play it yesterday, but it brightened up an otherwise grey and rainy journey to work today. Mon lapin pelucheux est plein de la joie.
Woweeeeeeeeeeeeee!!
The most enormous bouquet of flowers (including ornamental cabbages - that's lunch sorted out then!) has just been delivered to my desk, from the Press Office of the certain french motor manufacturer what I work on behalf of [sic]. Coool... I never had flowers like this before. *grins*
special deliveries
[pen] aww - what a treat.
[I've just posted your card just in case we don't make it on Sunday]
Birthdaze
[st d] Almost two weeks late, but thanks, there had to be someone to spoil my anonymity :P
[pen] All the best to you, of course!
Happy Birthday whatsits and hugs.
Not sure why but I was Mrs Inkspot bought me the CD, X&Y and it is not mine till September, I wonder what favours she is after!
[pen] Happy Birthday!
[pen] happy birthdya, late tho it is.

hello everyone, exams are over so I have time for crescenting once more. woo, eh.
Thank you for all your greetings. A more elegant birthday I couldn't have wished for. A big bunch of friends all made it down to London from various parts of the country to eat at the Oxo Tower last night, and a bunch more made it over to Rickmansworth for a perfect summer's day garden party this afternoon (The Day Itself). My dress is stained with cava and watermelon... how lovely. *beams*
I wouldn't worry about cava and watermelon. my mum didn't realise until I pointed it out to her hat while she haad been sat in the garden reading, she had sat on a raspberry. nice pink and grey skirt she has now... bet vanish'll do nothing too. hah.
Happy Bidet
Many Happy Returns, young pen.
Hip hap
Happy Birthday, pen.
Cake!
[pen] Yey!
little bit of cake?
[pen] What everyone else said.
*groooooaaaagh*
I was definitely pre-hangover when I made my previous post. I am now post-hangover. I don't want to tell you what went on in between, but suffice to say I just wasted one of my precious days of annual leave on something that could have been soooo easily avoided. And I *still* have washing up to do. Just one glass of Pimms won't hurt....
Welcome back nights!
Lots of celebratory back-slapping around at the minute. Oh, and very restrained of you to avoid MC over exam time...
well, it was waste loads of time on MC and fail my second year, or work and... hopefully not fail my second year. I've booked flights and everything now, so I'd better pass...
bday oxox
pen] sorry not to repond to your text the other `day (at least i dont think i did) my last few days have been a litle weird and i have now finished work and none the wiser about what to do next. I am glad it sounds like you had a nice time. bob..x
next
[st d] no worries... I'll catch up with you soon. What's the email address now?
[pen] Have finished motor sport project [at last!] but feel a tad guilty - I've been thinking about you a lot but don't seem to have got round to pressing any buttons or keys which would have let you know this. I now have a natural break until the next job - email on its way ..

[st dogstar] you're bound to feel rather adrift - even after 5 years of freelancing I still experience those feelings on a regular basis but have learned to go with the flow. Mind you, like Mr Micawber, I always believe that something will turn up.

[Chalks] Don't feel guilty - I seem to have lurched through this summer so far, I can't remember ever being so busy. Of the past two months, I have spent precisely two weekends at home, one of which was the birthday, so not exactly the 'laying-on-the-settee-watching-old-movies' time, but instead 240-mile-round-trips-on-Friday-night to collect parents when the trains weren't working and mad midnight dashes to the 24-hour supermarket to buy party provisions because that's the only time I had. Tonight I am driving another 240 miles from London-ish to North Yorkshire for another race meeting. Last night we, as a company, organised the third of four Mountain Bike race events. If anyone is interested in coming to the next one at Wycombe Summit (the woods alongside the dry ski-slope)in High Wycombe on the evening of Thursday, 28th July, then shout out! We have a small field, but it's increasing. And I only went because I thought I might see some handsome men getting changed in the car park... some hope. By the time I got home, my poor tomatoes were wilting! *blithers on in similar abstract vein for another five minutes*
pen
same as before but with a "d" instead of a "." in my name, and @gmail.com instead of @legal....:o) any confusion try st_dogmael@hotmail but i dont use it much
a ha'porth of pitch
Relating to the discussion a ways up there ^ from a while ago. Arts and Letters Daily just featured an article reviewing a new book that suggests we are all born with perfect pitch.
Perfect pitch
I've got it and always have had. Great Western engines whistle A flat (above the treble stave). My brother hasn't got it. He can play the piano and read and sing a choral score, so he, too is quite musical. We both had exposure to music, and a piano, from birth. From that, a reasonable deduction would be that I was born with it and he wasn't. The reviewer rightly says that perfect pitch (I prefer Absolute Pitch) is of no use except as a rather flashy talent (though I've never pulled a bird with it) but spoils his argument by saying it actually inhibits the understanding of language. I don't see this, and have never thought of speech as having a pitch, more of a continuous modulation from which much can be deduced. Absolute Pitch is only a form of memory and to be perfectly honest I don't quite understand why anyone who plays an instrument hasn't got it.
Er, why don't you understand, given that you've deduced it's something that some people have from birth?
mono-types
BTW, I haven't read the book, but I wonder if part of the argument that it inhibits language acquisition is to do with the subtleties of intonation - where the pitch is contextual rather than absolute. To interpret the same intonation in different people, you'd need to slide up and down the scale depending on who was talking. Which is interesting to consider when you link it with the fact that a common feature of autism (strongly associated with a weakness in interpreting the emotional states of other people) is a monotonous voice with very little subtlety of intonation. I'd better go read the book now, hadn't I?
Deaf as a post
I would have thought that most people have a good sense of frequencies - in that they can tell if a singer or musician is 'off'. The ability to recognise a note and give that note its correct nomenclature is a learned skill and therefore should not be part of a discussion about hearing. I wouldn't know a B flat from an A sharp, by name, unless the difference was demonstrated to me. If a musician (particularly those who play stringed instruments) cannot 'tune' their much beloved device then why (and how) are they playing?
[Rosie] On reviewing my post I think I sort of agree with you.
[Projoy] I'm not sure. Some oriental languages seem to rely on intonation changes for the meaning of various words and phrases - though English does the same to some extent - but I suspect that your comment regarding a 'sliding' scale must be true and would certainly not rely on perfect/absolute pitch, just the variation in such.
[Duj] Pianists can't always tune their instrument, and they seem to get on OK. :)
(Projoy) What I can't understand is why everybody hasn't got it from birth. As I said, it's only a form of memory, like remembering colours. (Dujon) Most people can tell if someone is out of tune, but only relative to some other pitch which is assumed correct. Most people who play a guitar can tune it so that the instrument as a whole is in tune. I have a friend who plays a few tunes (only at home), and plays rather well, and his guitar is in tune with itself but at least three semitones flat. He has a good sense of tuning but none whatever of absolute pitch. I tuned it up for him but he said the strings were far too tight so back down it went.
chromatics
[Rosie] OK. Why can't you understand that? (PS. I hate to point it out for a third time, but we've already discussed twice why it isn't like remembering colors! Perhaps you remain unpersuaded?)
[Rosie] Perhaps I can help. I have played guitar and sung in very amateur choirs. so I'm not totally lacking in the ability to hear pitch. But I hear lots of other things at the same time. For example, when tuning a guitar I'm often not sure if two strings are at the same pitch because of the different texture of the sound caused by the make-up and length of the string.
The same applies with other occasions. If a man and a woman are singing a duet I could tell you if there was a discord (to my ears), but would struggle to say if they were singing the same note (either an octave apart or exactly) because I cannot separate the pitch of a sound easily from the rest of its character.
Also I find it easy to sing a tune (relative pitch), but have no idea whether I'm singing the same notes as on a previous occasion. It seems to me that the ability to keep or hear a tune in your head does not imply that you remember the actual sound (which would imply that perfect pitch should be possible), but rather that you remember a pattern, which you can then apply to the sound when you remember or sing it.
[INJ] Perfectly described. It is the same for me, except that I'm usually better at the octave thing. At a weekly music school, I always impressed the teacher by being extremely quick at identifying intervals, and thus have a good memory for melody in the way you describe. I now find I have to make more cognitive effort to recognise intervals, but then I have learned a lot more about the subtleties of language intonation since then (through drama but also through acquiring more social skills). Which is interesting.
To me, anyway.
Musical memory
(INJ) Remembering a whole tune would seem to be much more complex than remembering the pitch of a note yet we seems to do it rather well, just as we remember faces rather than any specific physical feature of them. But to me pitch of a tune is an integral part of it and if I hum a tune to myself in the wrong key (because it's easier, say) I still have to assign a key to it.
Perfect pitch...
...is lobbing an accordion into a skip without touching the sides.

On a more serious note, I've had perfect pitch since I could ever remember, both in the absolute sense and the relative sense. So I have very little trouble transposing at sight, as well as playing at sight, or keeping in tune when singing a song in different keys. I've never known how I do it - I also have a pretty fast learning memory for music too. But, oddly enough, I'm lousy at matching names to faces.

(JLE) Yeah, but you're a f****** genius. Would you lob a soprano sax in the skip while you're about it, just for me? Then the five tons of rubble just to make sure.
[JLE] Hi - I'm Kathy. I was the other [apart from pen] female person at Rugby Pilg in May. I thought your piano playing was particularly fine.

I don't have [or have never tested the possibility of having] perfect pitch. I do, however, have an unerring sense of direction, and can point to North however many times I've been spun round. Is this normal?

controlled experiments
[Chalky] Wow. I, for one, have never heard of that. Out of curiosity, how accurately can you do this (exactly north, or just approximately?), and how rigorously has it been tested (not quite sure what the most rigorous test I can imagine would be -- maybe someone moving you while you were sleeping into a dark room where you have never been before?)? And can you point to any direction just as easily, or, if asked to point southwest, would you still start from north and work from there?
And do you have to be here to do it?
Septentrionation
[Chalky] Can I carry you round with me next time I go orienteering?
I have a pretty good sense of direction and I hang around with a lot of very good navigators, but that's a first for me. I think we need a scan for an overdeveloped pineal gland.
Prosthetic pineal gland
I can always tell where I am and where North is -- I carry a street map and a compass whenever I travel.
[CdM] Just approximate north - nothing too exact! The other directions I would work out in a more conscious way.

[Dan] Interesting. Makes me wonder how bewildering I would find being placed on the north pole with nowhere to point.

[INJ] I don't think you'd want to be burdened with the load :-)

I'm quite good at finding my way home, no matter what city or how drunk I am. can I claim that as a skill?
[nights] That seems to be a skill that humans have evolved as a species. This is evidence - I am sure - that beer has been around at least as long as humans have.
[nights] Were you born with it?
(nights, rab) There must be serious limits to the ability or we wouldn't have "Show me the way to home".
I'm almost tone deaf, can't remember names, and have to calculate north by looking at the sun and trying to remember what time of day it is. Should I get a new brain? Incidentally, there are languages that accent with pitch rather than stress (such as Japanese and Attic Greek). I wonder what it is like to have perfect pitch and speak those.
where?
[Chalky] How do you go in the Southern Hemisphere, in a place you haven't seen a map of?

I have an excellent sense of direction and hardly ever get lost, but I think that's got more to do with observation of my surroundings and the use of maps, mental and otherwise. I feel slightly unnerved without a map, if I am going to spend a while in a place. I carry a compass sometimes. The problem is that, since I obviously use the sun's position for orientation, this sense is most finely tuned on the southern hemisphere environment, so my location of north flips 180degrees when in the northern hemisphere. This is a *most* unnerving experience. I was convinced that London was t' other way 'round, and had to work very hard to swap to the "correct" directions.

I can do it standing on my head.
[Flerdle] I can relate to that. I find the same problem when I go South of the equator and the sun goes the wrong way.
In the Attic
(Breadmaster) It doesn't make any difference, having perfect pitch. It's the change of pitch that is important. The pitch of speech varies so rapidly, even during one syllable, that it is impossible to assign a pitch to it, other than high or low, say. BTW your method of finding north is quite normal and one I use myself, if that's any comfort.
*goes on holiday*
[flerdle] I wouldn't know - having never ventured into that territory.
upsy-daisy
[INJ] It does, it does!! And the moon's upside down.

I don't think I consciously look for or use the sun's position or movement, it just adds to a general sense of where's where.

[Chalky] You might be in for a surprise then :-)

drinkyfeet
there must be limits, but so far I haven't found one. I even, in my fairly drunken state, remembered the Russian for 'do you mind if I use your toilet', while nipping into a bar in St Petersburg on my merry way back to Ligovskii Prospekt. I may have been born with it, but I don't think I was ever drunk as a child.

*goes to work*
[flerdle] It would be interesting for sure. I've been fairly close to the equator but never below it [see? I still see north as 'up' and south as 'down'] Can relate to everything you said earlier about observation, map usage, etc. Even as a child I had a compulsion to know where I was placed and was first to a floor plan, street plan or map - it made my day when faced with one of those pictorial street guide display thingies with a big fat arrow saying YOU ARE HERE!
Austroborealism
(Chalky) North is still at the top even in the Southern Hemisphere. Weather charts are a bit difficult to get the hang of because everything goes round backwards but North is still at the top. Everything would still go round backwards even if North were at the bottom. It's fundamental. I'm with you on maps. My father had millions of OS Maps, some dating from the 1930's. I've got them all now and a whole load more. I've made a contour map, six feet by two, of the North Downs from Farnham to the Medway. Wonderful what you can do with tracing paper and a scanner and printer. Needless to say, Maison Rosie (TQ 3516 5955) is bang in the middle.
Moon
[flerdle] Maybe that's why you think the moon is white? :-)
it is!
[Néa] *thwap*
Maps
[Chalky & Rosie] Sign me up to the Cartographile Club !! I love 'em - old ones, new ones, from maps of countries, oceans, volcanic distribution etc. down to the most detailed O.S. map - I can pore over them for ages. I trust you've discover www.old-maps.co.uk which is a superb resource for late C19 O.S. maps of Britain.
Ooops
Sorry, forgot the http ... that should be www.old-maps.co.uk
Old maps
(Blob) Tried that. Excellent. Thanks.
MCiOS unreachable
Hello. Sorry about the downtime. Looks like an upstream provider is having problems.
Now a bunch of semitrained chimpanzees are jumping up and down on the routing tables. Connectivity is coming and going and the routes are changing even as we speak. Whee.
I hope you're filming that!
(Dan) Only properly trained chimpanzees should be employed. Otherwise you might as well use IT consultants.
Ook ook
Should be sorted now.
chimps running about aimlessly running servers, routers and whatnot? users with more knowledge than the IT staff? sounds like a job for Bath University Computer Services!
[nights] judging by that lack of response, your marketing for BU CS didn't go down too well ;o)
*thinks* . o O {I really fancy a biscuit}
[projoy] oooh, don't. I'm staying late at work to make inroads into a pile of work neglected by a colleague and to show him up as a workshy fop. And I'm STARVING.
has just munched a couple of ginger biscuits
[Blob] Thanks :-)
MCIOS?
Has MCIOS gone down again? Anyone able to access it?
I expect the monkeys are on the case again.
Oh, I know this sounds like the beginning of a limerick, but I hate it when subordinates sulk. What can be more pathetic than a man who can't accept the fact that his manager is a woman who has vastly more experience than himself? I'm not pointing out improvements he could make for FUN... I'm f*cking helping him... sheesh. *withers and dissolves into a cup of Earl Grey 'Management' Tea*
*some minutes later*
The sulk has come to a head. He's cross with me for proofreading his work and adding rather a lot of pink pen to it. And he still has a problem with women managers. :-/
[pennylope] a pink pen? Now that's just adding insult to injury :-)
Talking of work - my current project requires that I'm in't office from 4 - 8 pm for 3 weeks supervising a small team of temps who are carrying out a telephone survey. They are all students, immensely grateful for the work and their sheer enthusiasm has transformed a very mundane task, for me anyway, into enormous fun.
[Chalks] Pink rather than red - now that's just too teacherish, although after thinking about it this evening, I might start doing it in pencil. And lucky you for having a nice bunch to work with. I bet they're having fun working with you too. :o)
[Chalky] see, this is just the sort of job I WANTED. I like being on the phone. but I don't get it, do I? I get forced back into catering, a sector I gratefully left two years ago promising never to work in again. grumble grumble grumble, sorry. on the other, more important hand, I need the cash, as I leave for canada in 29 days.

[penelope] BUCS are evil, pure evil. they're arrogant, poorly organised and unreliable. the campus network went out on a sunday, in the couple of weeks running up to most people's coursework deadlines. it took them FOUR HOURS to even get to the sodding campus. naturally, this deep sense of satisfaction was expressed in the annual user survey (encouraged quite a lot by me), so the feedback of the users of the computing services of the university of bath will be, uh, buried in someone's drawer and forgotten about. never mind, at least I have my health, and my own computer.
[nights] Must be frustrating... but it wasn't ever anything I used to deal with. When I graduated (1987) everything - coursework, laboratory practicals with graphs and diagrams and EVERYTHING was hand-written and hand-drawn. My final year project had to be typed - my mum did it for me. There was a computing course as an element, but I never went to any of the tutorials.
[pen] see, I know that writing my essays longhand would be time consuming and thoroughly annoying when I wanted to insert a quote I'd found at the last minute - but I think I'd focus on it more. this has been the case when doing translations into russian (which I can't be bothered to type out because it takes ages) and scored better. so this is something to think about.

BUCS are still evil though. although they were thrilled when I dragged my old iMac down there to see why it wasn't working with the network. I actually rather miss that one.
*has fond memories of Microsoft Word completely reformatting, and removing the figures from, our 1st year project one hour before deadline*
*sigh*
It looks like I've now been victim to twatspam, of the 5000-links-to-a-website-in-a-post variety. As it happens I'm currently tweaking the back end of this website, so I'll be making it difficult to post more than a couple of links per move I'm afraid.
well I think we can all appreciate it. and it gives us the opportunity to use the construction "a link not totally unlike..." which is always a positive thing.
And it's happened again. These people are complete arseholes. More anon.
Ignore, mispost, sorry
Right I've disallowed <a> links for the moment. This is only a temporary solution until I come up with something more sophisticated.
Spammage
[Rab] Writing you offline.
Oh, what the hades...
Actually I'll just say it here, since the bumfuques who do this stuff don't read anyway. What I've been thinking of doing is treating any post with an A tag as bad HTML unless it contains a special attribute. For those following this at home, an attribute is like href="url". We could form them in the same way except require an additional or substitute attribute. For example, instead of href we could require the surname of the nice lady who writes letters to Humph. Another thing that occurs to me is to replace the A entirely, with some other nonstandard tag which will get converted to A on output. Thoughts?
On reviewing my own code, and thinking about it from a user-friendliness standpoint, I'm inclined to go for the latter. It's trivial to implement and easy to explain in the error message, in such a way that users will get it and passing spammers will not.
[Dan] Agreed! Would be nice to still be able to post links with a special tag. [rab] Can you get round your a link prohibition in the same way as at Dunx' place?
I have plans which hopefully should impact genuine Crescenters minimally. My banning of A tags for now is purely a short-term inconvenience.
(sorry if that sounds a little curt - Dan's solution will probably be the workaround that will be offered if the server thinks you're being overly naughty)
On the topic of campus computer people: I have wasted an entire morning trying to get my laptop configured so it can use the university network and internet provider. The goons at the Computer Centre took about an hour and a half trying to do it before declaring that they didn't have the right driver for my make of computer. Assimilating, dubiously, the revelation that this varies according to make rather than OS, I then had to go to the other end of the campus (requiring not one but two bus trips) where, surreally, there is what seems to be a support place for Toshiba. Why this isn't next to the Computer Centre, God only knows. They didn't know what to do, because a look on the Toshiba website revealed that there are lots of possible drivers to download and I hadn't been told what kind to look for. So I had to go all the way back to the Computer Centre (through a monsoon), where a new set of goons had replaced the original ones, but were no more competent. They couldn't find the relevant part of the website and in any case were now talking darkly of the need to open up the laptop and fiddle about with its innards. They wrote down what they needed and told me to take that back to the Toshiba people. Of course, they are all closed now and I have to wait until Monday. All this just to log onto the wretched network! Oh, and the whole thing was conducted in Singlish, which is basically incomprehensible at the best of times but far worse when it's people going on about drivers and networks and suchlike. Really, this place is appallingly disorganised. Thank God I can use the university's own computers for internet purposes or I'd really be in trouble.
Links
As I did on Dunx's page, you can always use Javascript in a tag to get around a restriction on A tags. For example: I'm a link to Orange MC without any A tags. (This works on Firefox at least.)
...and IE, as I just checked.
For those who are curious and don't want to View Source, here's how I did it:-

<u><font color=blue onClick="self.location='http://www.dunx.org/cgi-bin/orange-mc'">I'm a link to Orange MC without any A tags</font></u>

I have plans which hopefully should impact genuine Crescenters minimally. My banning of A tags for now is purely a short-term inconvenience.
Link without A tabs
Not to be picky, but shouldn't one be able to click on a link? It may just be AOL being incompetent but I can't click on Darren's one above. However, as this topic of conversation goes way over my head (I can just about cope with bold tags), I should probably just let you IT types get on with it.
Linkages
It works for me on Firefox. For Knobbly's info., in my case the cursor does not change (i.e. there is no indication that the text is a link) but is 'clickable'.
Links
I like Dan's simple work-round. The problem with Darren's (otherwise excellent) solution is there are some of us who operate in Firefox with javascript disabled. I have found this is a very effective tool in combatting trojans et al and am loath to change. Just my opinion, obviously.
I have plans which hopefully should impact genuine Crescenters minimally. My banning of A tags for now is purely a short-term inconvenience.
Impactfulness
Well, I was all set to say something about the use of impact as a verb, but apparently it, like Wagner's music, is not as bad as it sounds:
http://www.bartleby.com/64/C003/0165.html
rab's statements on the A tag issue are starting to sound a little... disturbing.
Sorry - that's what happens when I visit the site when drunk. I really hope to have this sorted out properly sooner rather than later. More anon.
They actually reminded me of government statements. As they pointed out on Yes Prime Minister, you should just keep making the same statement over and over again, no matter what people ask you.
Satire
Paxman: Are you happy for users of the site to find ways around your ban on A tags?
Prime Minister: I have plans which hopefully should impact genuine Crescenters minimally. My banning of A tags for now is purely a short-term inconvenience.
Paxman: But in the meantime, you accept there are workarounds?
Prime Minister: I have plans which hopefully should impact genuine Crescenters minimally. My banning of A tags for now is purely a short-term inconvenience.
Paxman: Prime Minister, are there or are there not loopholes in the ban on A tags?
Prime Minister: I have plans which hopefully should impact genuine Crescenters minimally. My banning of A tags for now is purely a short-term inconvenience.
Paxman: Look, yes or no. Do you accept there are loopholes?
Prime Minister: I have plans which hopefully should impact genuine Crescenters minimally. My banning of A tags for now is purely a short-term inconvenience.
Paxman: So you say, but what Crescenters are asking is, do you realise there are ways around the ban?
Prime Minister: With respect Jeremy, that's not the real question. I assure all genuine Crescenters that I have plans which hopefully should impact genuine Crescenters minimally. My banning of A tags for now is purely a short-term inconvenience.
Paxman: But Prime Minister...
Prime Minister: I have plans which hopefully should impact genuine Crescenters minimally. My banning of A tags for now is purely a short-term inconvenience.

etc. etc. etc.

(no offence meant to rab)
links
Good lord, you're right. I should have tried to click on it despite it not looking like I could.
[K] Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Although I recommend not clicking on the '1,000's of free smileys' pop-up.
has the INTaRWeB always been so full of crap, or has it got steadily worse since I got online in the summer of 1997?
[nights] Like everything, it's been mostly full of crap since it started, but it's only been in the last few years that the crap has expressed a desire to leap down everyone's throat.
The big cautionary tale of the net is Usenet, which although some people manage to keep active newsgroups going (using I don't know what antispam measures), is now almost entirely spam. I've been working recently on a little predator/prey population interactives, and I wonder if the cycles of spam-genuine content follow a similar statistical pattern. i.e. the population of predators increases, diminishing the population of prey, which in turn leads to extinction for the predators...
[Projoy] I think part of the problem with Usenet is that most people aren't even aware it exists any more, and those who are aware of it, by and large, consider it too full of spam to be useful. For this reason, I don't think you'd find a cyclical pattern, but rather a gradual tail-off with time.
[Projoy] I see almost no spam at all on Usenet. I read mainly rec.arts.sf.* and a few others. Where do you get the idea that it's mostly spam? (Er, I probably won't see a reply to this for a couple of weeks -- off to Glasgow at the crack of dawn tomorrow.)
[Raak] Well, as you won't see this I can make any claim I like. :) I don't know, but I assume the admin of some newsgroups have anti-spam measures in place, or there are anti-spam measures at the ISP news server level. No idea, really. I also have frequented a rec.arts newsgroup or two (and I believe the drwho one still goes on strong). I used to read a group or two on the alt. hierarchy, but would not attempt it now. They were swamped in spam years ago.
all the usenet groups I ever use (a few music ones and tomb raider, all under alt.) are filled with crap. I looked in on the MC one this morning and that was full of rubbish. a shame really. I'll try other groups though.
Usenet groups
I regularly look at, and contribute to uk.sci.weather. There are rather a lot of gadget nerds and people of the spotty-herbert tendency who seem to use weather as an excuse for computer exercises but there are also professional meteorologists who contribute, necessarily under a pseudonym. There is very little outright junk.
The only one I ever contributed to with any intensity was rec.puzzles.crosswords, in which I even created a long-running competition which still runs.
so, who's going on holiday?
Not I. I wish to remain here and enjoy the delightful British Summer in all its scorching glory.
[nights] Holiday? I seem to remember those. Many years ago . . . .
*comes back from holiday*
welcome back Tuj! have a nice time?
Hello nights et al!
Yep, 2 weeks in and around Boston with my family, pretty good and apparently the weather kicked 7 bells out of the weather back in Britain, so that's OK. I still say their money smells funny though.
[Tuj] I'd forgotten about that. Mm. Dollars.
I wonder if canadian ones also smell. I've heard you can pop the middle of a $2 coin out.
Yes, but I've heard that about the £2 coin too and never managed it...
tv
Great night on tv last night and all 3 hours of it on Channel 4 starting at eight. A combination of Big Brother (Craig evicted ......yes!!!! result) and two opening episdodes of new drama Lost. An ensemble cast is allowing multi storylines and twists it is gripping already with unanswered questions, polar bear? 16 year old mesage still being transmitted? how is the labrador unscathed?
is watching you
[Inks] Glad you mentioned Big Brother. I wonder how many people in the UK Morniverse have seen some or even all of it? I think it's been very watchable this year for two reasons: Big Brother himself has been amusing, unpredictable, capricious and in charge; there has been considerable action, some of it admittedly grotesque, during the 'live' streaming.
As for Lost - unless they repeat the episodes at weird times [which is usually when I watch TV], I doubt if I'll get the opportunity to see it.
isn't watching back
As a militant anti-Big Brother person, I think the current series has been one of the best so far because it has been low key enough to not manage to puncture my consciousness. I couldn't name a single contestant, so I'm happy.
I think last year was better from that point of view. Can't remember anything about that. This year I recall seeing some press stories about Derek Laud, so it managed to sneak its way into my consciousness.
I watched it until I came home from university, and all of a sudden don't have time for it. never mind.

and I'm stuck with dialup at the moment as our broadband is up the chute again. so I won't be around very much at all, no.
[Big Brother] I'm with Tuj on that one, I'm afraid. The less I know, the better!
Mock the loonies
I've probably watched an hour all told. What stupid irritating people they are! I've no need to be militantly anti, no-one I know ever having watched any of it, so they claim.
alone.... alone..... completely solitary
Someone, talk to me! Please............. *sniff* Actually, I'm not despondently lonely, just bored and I have a cold. ;o)
Acute nasal coryza
(pen) Hello, pen, I bet your cold isn't as bad as mine! Head feels like lead, i.e. heavy, deformable and the product of radioactive decay.
talking to penelope
I like maps
Maps are great
Scratch my knees with a dinner plate.
revisiting
[Darren] your javascript works fine in Safari on a Mac... and lovely satire :) [rab] MCiOS is also having a mild spate of spammers. (If two can be called a spate, but it's a sign of the special nature of the Morningverse that just two such spams seems a flood!)
I like the custom tag idea best as outlined by Dan - newcomers will get it wrong once and the error message can put them right, or if we want more security we can always refer to some obliquely crescentish word such as Mrs T's surname and anyone who still doesn't get it just has to ask! Any spammer getting around that clearly has such fine products for sale I for one will be proud to read about them on a website in Russian full of ladies with their nightwear on...

[Pen] Hola!
Ah yes, I must get back to finishing mc5-and-a-half. That work thing has rather annoyingly got in the way.
back for a few days
[pen] hope you're feeling better.
hello pen, I fixed my ADSL by going to the local exchange and poking it, just for you. here's a mildly offensive rhyme:
Roses are red,
Violets are blue,
I'm schizophrenic
And so am I.
Thnaks, thanks all for the good wishes and the rhymes, some of which were more amusing than others, hehehehe. I took the day off yesterday (I take very few days off sick - I think that one is my second this year) to try and get rid of this lurgy, but felt so guilty about it that I spent almost the entire day hoovering and cleaning, washing and ironing. I'm the first one to say that guilt isn't a useful thing to have, but also one of the biggest feelers-of-guilt. *cringe* Any advice?
celebdaq
There only appear to be three of us these days. Where'd'they go?
It's your fault
[Pen] What you need is lots of people blaming you for things. You'll get so indignant about it that you'll stop feeling guilty even when you should. So to help in the process I should like to say that I blame you for all the evils of the modern world, in particular having to go back to work after a holiday.
Thunderstorms
(ImNotJohn)The precipitation (needed for electrification) would be in the cloud and below it but evaporating into the dry air before reaching the ground. These precipitation trails are called virga. This effect is always present in showery or thundery weather even if the stuff reaches the ground. The evaporation absorbs latent heat and cools the air, making it denser and causing a downdraught which appears as a fierce gust of random direction at the surface. It also explains why "April showers" can turn to snow if heavy enough even if the temperature beforehand is as high as 8°C. All this stuff needs rather dry air below the cloud; not too dry, of course or there wouldn't be any cloud in the first place.
*indiginanting*
[INJ] An interesting theory. However, you should know by now that it's your fault for booking the time off in the first place. :o)
[Rosie] Thanks - clear and concise.
post-holiday post
Back from land of coolness. Now in land of heat.                 *sigh*
[pen] tips for getting rid of that nagging guilty feeling - do anything and everything possible, keep yourself busy. or do something to feel guilty about - go shoplift. apparently clerks is the most shoplifted video cassette in the USA...
and another thing...
I managed to bag a thermometer-hygrometer thingy in Aus. It's been interesting to see what actual readings have been since returning here, especially inside the house. If you ask nicely I'll say, else I'll spare you. Needless to say, my "can't sleep" point is rather different here. It's amazing what you can put up with if you have to.
No problemo
By all means, flerdle - at least from me - I always find others' weather interesting. Of course others may well disagree; privacy laws and all that, I suppose.
ah.
Well, that brought the conversation to a grinding halt, dinnit? Anyone for a mint? *offers*
I think they've all been eating gob-stoppers, flerdle. ;-)
Mints
[flerdle] Does it have a hole in it?
holey
[blamelewis] If you want it to I'm sure we could arrange that. *prepares electric drill*
hey, no playing with drills. play friendly, you lot.
hole hog
[flerdle] Send the hole over - can you attach it to an email?
*drops a pin*
looking down
Ooh, a pin! *picks up pin*
Shaking
At approximately 0642 local time, Monday 29th August, I believe Sydney suffered a mild earth tremor.
(Dujon) So it it didn't wake you up, then? Nothing whatever would awaken me at twenty to seven in the morning. Maybe a full bladder. Maybe even a half-full one. :-(
shakey
[Duj] Was that the moment England won the 4th test match?
Awakening
[Rosie] Néa may awaken me any time. (Sorry, Néa, it's only a bit of joshing - OK?)
[Chalky] What on Earth are you doing at this ungodly time of the morn? In answer to your query, no, see the response above. Still, I might now have a cigarette. Care to join me?
Awwwww
[Dujon] I bet you say that to all the girls you play MC with.
[Néa] Only the ones who drop pins. Handkerchiefs are so passé. :-)
Handkerchiefs
Also, presumably that wouldn't wake you.
Yet another on back from hols
Brittany was great with a short stroll over the sand dunes to the beach, and come back to home to a scorhing Indian Summer. To make the most of this glorious weather, the ironing board will be set up on the patio this evening. Life is about to settle down into more routine with the schools starting to go back tomorrow.
*message for Chalks*
I'm doing ancient history tomorrow (thursday)... might you be in for a cup of tea later in the day? I'll txt...
not a good reader of handbooks or rules
As things seem to be rather bleak on the matress front since March I have decided to place an ad in the Personals in the London Review of Books. Might be scuppered by a medical indifference to reading. Advice as ever appreciated
*penelope*
*plans to buy bake a cake* :-)
Ah yes. I might not be around for a bit. Keep the place tidy, will you.
at home with Mr Kipling
[rab] you dropping in as well?
just an observation
Funny thing. This Banter Game, although fairly quiet at present, appears to be kept alive by a regular group of MCers. Yet many other long-standing games on this server have a completely different and prolific group of contributors - most of whom never post an entry in here. Why do you suppose that's the case?
maybe an explanation
(Chalky) I suspect many of those who contribute to the games but not to the banter are quite young and lack the confidence to spout off here. Also, older people tend to find their niche and stick with it whereas when you're young you tend to have broader but shallower interests in which contributing a word or two to a game is quite sufficient. There could be other reasons but that'll do for the moment.
The age of garrulity
I thought traditionally it was the young who overconfidently spout off and the older, and wiser, who keep their counsel. Admittedly, seven years here has been enough to disabuse me of this fanciful notion. Some people (such as me) are spouters and some, like Drewsxpa for instance, are containers. :)
Containers
(Projoy) What sort of container is Drewsxpa, then? A 45-gallon drum, rucksack, ladies' purse, breadbin, boxfile, skip, biscuit barrel? I think we should be told.
not a weather report, honest. Oh, ok, perhaps a little.
Just went for the first walk of the season; the temperature's been down a bit these last two or three days, and that plus a nice breeze was enough to prompt us to go for a walk in the evening (last time was some time in May, we think). Amazing. And we didn't even die.
[flerdle] It's been rather uncomfortably humid here in mid-south UK which has made for a very weary sort of day. I've been reading your blog the last few days so I know that what we're experiencing bears no comparison ....
... which helps me understand how going for a walk in a nice breeze is something to celebrate :-)
*peeks from round the corner, notes an absence of vandalism, disappears again*
Posting Habits
Going back a few posts, if I may comment, the reason I (and possibly others) don't often post here (although I read fairly often) is that it feels a little intrusive, as though butting in to someone else's conversation. I suppose 'eavesdropping' is just as rude, if not worse though! *feels ashamed and shuffles off*
[Rosie] I long to ask him, but I don't know he'd care to tell me.
Intrusion
(Ella) If you've got something to say, say it. And even if you haven't, still say it, be it ever so banal. This place may appear cliquey to the relatively infrequent poster but it isn't. Even if we assume it is, all you have to do is put up a few remarks and you'll be part of the clique anyway. :-)
*sprays "rab is a weneir" on the wall*
graffiti
(Néa) A what? Is it rude?
*intrigued*
[Rosie, above]
Well, that was informative
Curse these fingers! I was going to say that it's also easy to get left behind by an ongoing debate, which if you come in halfway through or just simply aren't interested in, is very difficult to comment upon. Does that sentence look coherent?
* crosses out weneir and replaces with "weiner"*
Exactly
[Projoy] It's nice to be understood :-)
*crosses out weiner and replaces with "Weimar"*
*crosses out Weimar and replaces with 'whiner'*
*crosses out whiner and replaces with 'wino'*
...and nods in agreement with Tuj's comment about getting left behind while welcoming Rosie's invitation to join the clique.
*crosses out 'wino' and replaces with 'window'*
*crosses out "window" and replaces with "willow"*
*crosses out "willow" and replaces with "tara"*
...and is with tuj and Ella on this one.
*crosses out "tera" and replaces with "terror"*
I'm on the bean bags for this one with the break out area through the patio doors just by the swaying palm trees.

In the last couple of days I've killed so many wasps. We have a very low eaves house and they have made a nest behind the bargeboard. There have been too many flying around to spray during the day, but in the dark just after sunset when they are all inside, it’s spay time. In the past 2 two there have been over 200 on the ground outside and another 100 in the lobby as they have found a way from the cavity though the blockwork to come up behind the skirting but the are drowsey even a four year old can kill them – hitting them several times before they stop twitching. The good news is this year we were not plagued by flying ants, it was the neighbours turn to run inside one the summers evening.

Vespicide
(Inkspot) Sounds 'orrible. Where are you?
M4
I'm encamped in the small north Wiltshire town of Wootton Bassett, famed for its black and white timber framed town hall on stilts. The wasp thing could have been worse the house is drylined so they could crawl anywhere behind the plasterboard and find their way between the floor joists.
Spaying the wasps...
[Inkspot] I'm impressed. That must require both great courage and great delicacy.
B269
(Inkspot) Not a single wasp here in snooty Surrey. I didn't know about the Wilts stilts. Was it transplanted from Jakutsk, Siberia, where all buildings are on stilts to avoid melting the permafrost? Probably not.
Wootton Bassett, famed for its black and white timber framed town hall on stilts
[Inkspot] Does it walk around of its own accord?
[Darren] At last we know what happened to Baba Yaga's Hut! By the way, have you given up on the Kingdom of Loathing?
What it says on the can
Tonight it is showdown time with the beasties we have "Wasp Nest Destroyer Foam" it will be put along the bargebord, a little treat for them to take home.
A lovely warm summers evening here in SN4 just right for sitting out with a glass of wine.
good evening everyone. as people who frequent orangeMC will have realised, I am now settled in québec (finally) so you can expect me on here a little more.

and the weather, today started out quite warm here in QC but it quickly went cold when I was sat on a hill watching a 'football' game. more clothes were definitely needed. and I have a horrible feeling this is that cold that everyone here keeps on telling me about. oh dear.
Canadian brass monkeys
(nights) I don't think you've seen anything yet. The mean January temperature in Montreal is -10°C.
[nights] My sister lives about 60 miles from you. Come the Christmas and New Year party season, she can keep bags of ice for cocktails outside the kitchen door for two weeks without them defrosting. One year, her daughters built themselves a skating rink on the drive (battens, polythene sheeting and several hundred gallons of water) which lasted for three months... I'd send out for thermal socks if I was you.
[UK] Pretty much. I suspect they must have deleted my player by now.
[Darren] No, since you have a Mr A. If you don't want to go back and feel like donating anything to another worthy clan member (ahem), I'm sure I could think of a couple of potential beneficiaries... (grovel ends)
Barbie gets married
Last weekend was the celebrity wedding of the year with squillions being paid for the exclusive pictures, to whet your appetite here is the dress and here, are Peter and Kate cutting the cake
(Inkspot) Can't get the links to work, not that I shall lose any sleep over it. :-)
Barbie
(Inkspot) Link works now. Christ, what a pair of 12-volts! I still hope not to lose sleep.
*faints, recovers, looks at second pic and dies*
Inkspot, you are a dirty old man (you too, Rosie). I'm a face man myself. :-)
*sniggers*
Blimey. I'm amazed at how cleverly they get everything to look so plastic, including the smiles.
whoah
I'm kind of glad I have absolutely no idea who they are.
plastic, plastic everywhere
The moment I saw those pics in the office yesterday, I started up a chorus of "I'm a Barbie Girl, in my Barbie world..."
totem
... and there's certainly something about the shape of that cake ...
Come on Barbie, let's go party!
And won't they be proud to show those pictures to their grandchildren some day. Also, not that I don't agree with flerdle... but who are they??
Néa] In this case, ignorance really is bliss.
[thermals] what, you think my mother let me leave Stanstead without thermal socks? I (possibly incorrectly) think I'm ready for whatever winter can throw at me, including a clause in my housing contract saying it's my responsibility to keep the balcony free of snow. it's sort of hard to contemplate sat on my balcony in a pleasant warm breeze on a pleasant evening in québec, smoking godawful canadian cigarettes. I miss L&B.
[pics] and OMFG I'm glad I'm in the land of maple right now...
Jugs
(Dujon) How dare you! I'm a face man also but when presented with these absurdly compressed mountains of flesh one cannot but notice them. But in terms of allure they are neither necessary nor sufficient.
Giggling
Fair dos, Rosie. Sorry, Inkspot.
I thought, like the plastic of penelope, it was just an image until, upon opening my morning paper, there was one of the photographs purporting to be a reproduction from a certain well know celebrity's wedding. Ruddy 'eck. I'll put my glass eye back in now.
Ohm sweet ohm
It's nice to be home. Such a shame I'll be buggering off to Luxembourg shortly.
The Grand Duchy
I spent an afternoon in Luxembourg once. It's quite nice, fairly eccentric. Better when they had Belgian Francs though.
Letzeburg
We had a weekend in Luxembourg city a few years ago - probably about long enough. Very pleasant, good food (especially patisserie), terrific situation.
Lux
Luxembourg
I used to listen to Radio Luxemburg (sic) many moons ago, for what it's worth.
Old Radio
[Rosie] So did I. Wasn't there a DJ with Motor Neurone Disease whose wife was his sidekick on his evening show?
And, for what it's worth, I once worked for a guy who had been a skipper on Radio Caroline.
Luxembourg
Went to a conference there three years or so ago. It's, er, really small. They run bus tours of the whole country that leave the main square at noon, and are back by 3.30pm.
Highlight of the trip? I bunked off the main conference dinner to go to a performance of a Handel opera at the Conservatoire (on the other side of town from Euroville, and so about 30 minutes walk ...). A stunning performance space - better than any I can think of in London of its size (about the capacity of the Barbican concert hall, I reckon). The piece was commissioned from Handel for a private occasion, and had never been performed since. A very, very fine performance it was too - only three singers IIRC, so very exposed, and they all coped and performed superbly. Excuse the slippage into anecdotage ... * wanders off, humming to self *
Radio Lux
(pen) Don't remember that. There were no women on RL when I listened (about 1957-63). It was people like Sam Costa and Jack Jackson. I dusted off my old singles the other day and played some Duane Eddy, Fats Domino and Buddy Holly stuff. A nice lowbrow, nostalgic relaxation.
[Rosie] Wuld've been about 1973 when I listened. Eek. Now, Fats Domino is one of my favourites... excellent driving music!
I had my worst 'Senior Moment' to date this morning. I now have a head full of deodorant rather than hair spray.
Sticky
Still, better than having your armpits glued together with 'Ellnette' : )
[Ella] Oh, I dunno. At least the world's finest hairspray brushes out. I just won't get a sweaty brow for a day or two. And my hair stinks.:o/
Wrong tube
I once discovered that Savlon is not especially nice toothpaste.
...
(Then again, maybe not quite as bad as spreading Colgate on a burn ...)
Fats Domino
(pen) I can do a boogie-woogie version of Be My Guest (ca 1959) on the piano.
sraddehC
Just been looking back through the Regurgitated Cheddars and my sides are still aching. Long may it continue.
Hello.
Hello, Knobbly. Haven't seen you here before. Is it just your knees?
[Rosie] Is what just his knees? You shouldn't ask questions like that of complete strangers, you know. [Knobbly] Seriously, is it just your knees?
My knees
[Rosie]Well, I'm frankly offended if no-one has noticed my previous presence or recent absence - I haven't popped in much over the holiday, but this is my main procrastination site when I'm meant to be working at university. I missed all the bad puns.[Wol and Rosie]I did shorten my screenname from 'Knobbly Knees' because I couldn't be bothered to keep typing it. But, no I don't think they are really.
wrong products first thing in the morning are always a problem. I tried to brush my teeth with my hosuemate's hair gel once. I don't even USE the damn stuff, my hair is LONG, why did I even pick it up?

Québec is still lovely (smirk).
Did you slick them back or tousle them.
(nights) I hope you used a fine tooth-comb. They are definitely the best.
If you ask me...
[Pook] That was one of the funniest comments anyone's posted in ages.
Faux pas
Having only just discovered the joys of mc5 I noticed last night I appear to share my handle with another. I apologise wholeheartedly, and shall henceforth submit as Pooksadaisy.

(Simons Mith) The irony is,toothpaste gives me more style and hold than any other hair product.

Pook honor
[Pook] Are you sure? I don't recall a previous pook on these pages.
Faix pas -cond.
(Projoy) It was quite an old post on ...so help me god, but it's no great shakes to modify my eke-name. On a lighter note however, as I write this the rain is hammering on my window and the river levels are rising, which means that tomorrow I'll go kayaking instead of trawling through old MC games.
(Pooksad) You don't live in Orpington, then?
Orpington
(Rosie) It's funny you should say that. Many is the time, when gambolling over the wind swept fells or careening down a grade three Lakeland river,that I've dreamed of rolling up my flat cap, selling the whippet and moving to Orpington.
Hello
Welcome, Pooksad. I admire your pastime (there's a white water rapid place just down the road from me) although I've never understood the fun to be found in getting oneself withchered.
Getting moist
(Dujon)Skylarking around in skin tight neoprene whilst wearing a silly hat, life just doesn't get better than that!!!
[Pooksad] Do you work in a circus? ;o)
wet dreams
As the alarm clock went off this morning, I was having a dream about explaining how the Thames Barrier works. What the blazes is that all about??!!
Dreams
[pen] I really don't know... but it made me laugh, so thanks, I needed it :)
I had another dream last night about being booked for some museum teaching, but finding I wasn't prepared. Had a lot of those lately.
(which of course is just a variant on the going-on-stage-without-knowing-the-lines nightmare. Not had that particular version for ages, tho).
Freud fest
Which of course is just a variant on the naked in public nightmare. I have that one all the time!
gnashing
I find I lose all my teeth in a lot of dreams lately.
teef
[Chalky] According to wah wah wah dot myjellybean.com/dream/paget.html, "If your teeth fell out or you spit them out, you are anxious about money." Were they grey and rotten? Health problems. Loose? Untrustworthy friends. Broken and worn down? Relationship problems.
Losing my teeth is my recurring nightmare. I have it five or six times a year - they just crumble in my mouth and I spit out the pieces.
ditto spitto
[pen] same. And if [Raak]'s webref is to be taken seriously, I can't say it happens when I'm anxious about money either. P'haps it's fear of old age?
My recurring nightmare involves wandering around an empty house trying all the doors which are locked, but when I get to the last door I know it's unlocked but I'm afraid to open it. I have this dream a couple of times a year.
Somebody help us!!
I'm usually trussed up in a pink tutu amongst a troupe of ballet dancers in perfect step, trying desperately to keep up, but, to the amusement of the audience, always a few steps behind :-)
Frustration dreams
One I used to have occasionally was about football. I was running down the right wing on to a pass but could never, ever, EVER quite reach it, and it all happened in slow motion. And why the right wing? I could no more cross a ball with my right foot than I could speak fluent Basque. It was for standing on. Not a very good footballer.
Pretty in pink
(ella) Never mind all that, what about your dreams?
mooooooo i had dream bout a cow driving a bus, it tried to run me over, guess what im going to marry someone called pook!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh dear
...Rosie's been at the Carlsberg again.
I don't believe in the evils of social drinking, I only ever drink alone and to help me forget.
[Pooksad] forget what?
Aaargghh,must.. resist.. inevitable punchline!!!
dunno, can't remember - (bugger!!)
Impersonation
(Projoy) Never touch the stuff! I'm a bitter man. I'll rephrase that - I drink bitter.
dreams
hey, my funeral dreams have returned. what the hell am I worried about THIS time?

[pooksad] oh yes, very good. actually, I loved it, hungry as I am for british humour on this side of the atlantic.
Sweet dreams
(nights) I wouldn't worry if I were you, it's probably just an irrational fear of your life slipping away followed by eternity in a cold dark hole in the ground, while the people you knew and loved, move in like jackels to pick over the remains of your life. Personally, I like to bear in mind what Hume said, which goes something like "don't try making sense of it all, just go and play pool instead."
exiting the gene pool
[pook] But did he mean play pool here or in the great pool hall in the sky?
train dreams
I keep dreaming about being on a train, and desperately trying to get somewhere, and it’s always very stressful. In the last one, my mum and I managed to avoid the conductor and didn’t even pay for our tickets by running along the train the whole trip. My cat was in one of the carriages and looked rather surprised as I pelted past her. No-one else was bothered, though.
Oh, I get those too - assorted on-the-wrong-train or missed-the-connection dreams. Mind you that happens often in real life, so no great mystery there.
Missing the train
I don't have train dreams... is that because I don't travel by train? Or am I emotionally disabled in some way? I do have driving dreams from time to time - and my late father is sometimes a passenger, which is nice.
A quick pee
I just read Regurgitated Cheddars, Kim,Chalky,Wymo,Projoy and Blob,very very slick,I laughted that much I nearly bought a round.
Correction
I really mean't the Limerick,and I also mean't laughed without the t.
I used to have loads of train dreams, but they eventually finished. Often I was waiting for a train, or stopping a train that was running, or trying to get off a moving train. Also lots of lift dreams, where they would malfunction or catch fire. I've been stuck in plenty of lifts in real life, but it's never frightened me, I think it's just a mental symbol for feeling stuck in an awkward situation in life. Similar with the trains. (None of that was my recurring nightmare, though, but that's a bit odd even for here.) Still, enough about my insanity.
(Darren) Now I really am curious, odd is good.
Must stop going out in that tutu
(Darren)A problem shared is a problem....that everyone can bring up whenever they need a good chuckle. Carry on though, please.
such stuff as dreams
I've never had a train dream. We don't use them much on the west coast of the States. I've had pen's teeth dream countless times, and the other night I dreamed I was searching for treasure in a lost tomb. I fell through a trap floor and got bit by a snake.
Treasure dreams
Strangely enough I had the treasure dream the other night, but rather than get bitten by a snake I discovered the treasure at the top of a pyramid. It was Gilette razors. Tch, even my dreams are sponsored now.
lilting limericks
[Pooks] thanks :-) - not wishing to tempt fate but the latest few should all have 'bravo' stamped on them. Have you visited the Limerick games in the other two servers yet?
Träumerei
[Darren] Your train dreams - did they stop around the time of the Beeching report? [teeth] Not had that one for a while - used to get it a lot. Incredibly vivid - the dream was that I was lying in bed, trying to get to sleep, with my teeth falling out like toppling dominoes. The segue between the dream and waking to feel in my mouth was imperceptible. I had understood it to mean nothing more specific than insecurity; which I would put my hand up to at the time.
the best medicine
(Chalky) Just spent the last hour in absolute tears, just what I needed. I am currently having too much of a good thing in my neck of the woods. I spent all summer waiting for it to rain so I could go kayaking, guess what, my local river has in the space of a week, gone from a stagnant trickle to a grade 5 raging monster, with holes and stoppers that would eat you alive if you got too near. Hoo hum.
[Wol] No, I wasn't even born then!
Limericks - sorry, seems I DID tempt fate by saying they were going so well
Hopeless
I give up. Men are a complete mystery. Why would anyone approach you, chat you up (yeah, online, I admit), call you when you least expect it, then invite you out on a date, only to stand you up without a word? I sat in the bar of I bet Berkhamstead's Cafe Rouge drinking coke for half an hour, feeling like an idiot. I bet the patron has seen it a thousand times... At least I have the satisfaction of knowing I'm not the one who acted like a jerk.
[Darren] ;-) [pen] We're not all complete prats; I can only apologise for those that are, and are bad enough not to apologise for themselves. The guy in question - he isn't the patron of Cafe Rouge in Berkhamsted, is he?
[Wol] He's not the patron, no... and thanks :o) I think I wrote that in a kind of early-morning rage. *sigh* Onwards and upwards... salsa dancing tonight. At least if anyone does you wrong at salsa dancing, they're right there in front of you and you can kick their shins.
(Pen) There really is no mystery about them, they're just hopeless!!!
one, two, three... five, six, seven...
Anyone want to hear about salsa dancing? I'm going to tell you anyway. It was brilliant! My first time, and the men were still hopeless - they're supposed to lead, and either I'm not listening carefully enough or they're too scared to be firm and lead properly. I suspect it might be my fault... mwahahaha!
(pen) Most men, and especially musicians, can't dance unless they're pissed, and don't actually like it, except as a grope. But some can, and I wish you well. :-)
I can't dance unless it's a really grinding techno beat. at which point it doesn't matter. however I echo Rosie when I say that some men (including me) enjoy dancing 'properly', and I'm sure you will find one. but you can't have me for several reasons, the most important of which being that an ocean separates us. *sigh*.
Two left feet
I'm with Rosie, penelope.
I have not had a dancing lesson in my life to date. I also suspect that I am one of a majority of males in that situation. Years ago, as a teenager, I looked at some books on the subject (well, one) which was full of black and white footprints. I gave up. When I watch accomplished dancers - and I'm not speaking of those 'professionals' who trip the light fantastic with fixed grins on their faces - I can see that many people gain much pleasure from the exercise. You are now allowed to address me as Wallflower.
to all gentlemen
Please, chaps, don't give up. Dancing with a man leading is one of the nicest things I've done for a long time. They're itching for more men to join in, and if you just take a deep breath and dive in with a beginner's class (which is what I did last night), follow the teacher for an hour - which is all enjoyable - you'll be rewarded with a floor full of ladies to choose from. It's not hard, you just have to count: one, two, three... five, six, seven... and practice. The music is great, they hand out flyers for more events while you're there - I could dance four nights a week without a permanent partner and without driving too far at all if I wanted - and they even sell beer there. What more could you want? My motivations for dancing? To get out of the house, perhaps find a nice man to dance with more than once, and to get a smaller arse!
I'm sorry I can't take your call...
Oh, and the mystery of the date-standing-me-up on Sunday night has been explained. He was locked up in a police cell for the weekend when the officers returning his escaped dog realised there was a warrant for his arrest after previously being charged with being drunk in charge of a vehicle when he slept in the car after a wedding month ago. He got the date of his magistrate's court appearance wrong and failed to attend, so was locked up on Saturday afternoon, and had to wait there until a court appearance on Monday. I don't think you could make it up. I could make a fortune from writing a newspaper column about my experiences as a single woman... or has it already been done?
I'm laughing, actually, but I don't think I'll be talking to him again.
I rest my case!!!
(Pen) Still, it could have been worse, he might have actually turned up for the date. I can't imagine what kind of trouble you would have ended up in, probably something to do with drunken dogs wearing tutu's!!!
1,2,3,5,6,7
[pen] My wife used to go to Salsa in Berkhamsted, but hasn't been for a while. No way I'd go with her - one of the benefits of being married is that I don't feel compelled to dance very often these days. I dare say that if we ever got divorced or separated I'd have to once again suffer the terpsichorean muse - but until then I stay seated and quaff the vino instead.
[penelope] You can also take heart from this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3006130.stm
[penelope] Not that I'm saying you're over 75 (on the contrary, I've always considered you to be something of a pin-up around these parts) but at least you can see there are advantages to dancing.
[Darren] Thank you - the advantage to dancing is you know your dance partner isn't locked up...
*blushs at the pin-up reference, but drains to a deathly pallor when she realises this could mean a dart-board pin-up*
pin-ups
Everyone under 75 qualifying as a pin-up sounds like an interesting rule. I know that's not what you said, Darren, but it would be.
marriage and dancing
[Blob] Hmmm. Mr Néa's view is that if he hadn't been married, he never would have had to dance - as it is, he had to dance the waltz at his weddings. Personally, I rather enjoy dancing provided it's with a guy who can lead. I don't dance very well, so the man has to be good at it.
is it bad that every time I go dancing, I wake up the following morning with sore feet, shoulders and neck?
Depends if you were breakdancing or not.
Or the type of car in which you slept. penelope might be able to help.
I've noticed in the last few years, a growing tendancy to groan slightly when getting in and out of chairs, regardless of the previous evenings activities. I don't suppose this is something that's going to improve with age! The funny thing is, when I'm out on the river and especially when other people are egging me on, I do all kinds of crazy stunts, but when I get home, I do the old "wait till your my age" routine, so that my flatmate makes me a nice cuppa, Hee Hee.
[Pooksad] You are clearly starting to experience the hypocrisy of old age. This is also manufested in the desire to resort to adages ssuch as: "Don't do as I do, do as I say,", and "When I was young..." Keep a note of the symptoms.
Sigh...
If only I had listened to what my mother told me when I was younger.
[Pooksad] For more symptoms, see the "You know you're getting old when......." game in the archive.
Ooh 'eck
(Raak) Duly noted and alarmingly familiar.
Welcome back
Sorry it's been a while. Check the info page to read about posting links (you get a couple for free, at least until we start getting spammed again),
Hidden texthiding text but not, note, HTML (yet)
and the HTML rewriter that automatically Goods your Bad HTML. This is a work in progress, so feel free to point out where the dwimmery failed. I ran it on all 47000-odd existing moves, fewer than 100 of which caused big problems. The only thing that might catch you out is that if you put a paragraph in the middle of a bold move, only the first bit appears bold. I'm working on that.

Enjoy.

enjoying
Ooooh! Funky.
*cheers*

Thanks for all your hard work!

Well - Hello again :-) :-)
Three cheers (as promised)
Hip hip
Hidden texthooray!

Hip hip
Hidden texthooray!

Hip hip
Hidden texthooray!
Virgin
Hello all, I've not been here before in this or a previous guise, so I can't say whether this is better or not.
Congratulations
It looks really good! Adding my podume of thanks to the pile.
Welcome back! Very tasteful reveal buttons! BTW, what's the difference between "silky smooth" and "safe but dull"? I can't see a difference on Safari.
Ah, it's the dotted borders!
Hap hap... hoozah!
Hurrah! I like the fact that everyone is now called Monica. It suits my new latin temperament, apart from the fact that tonight it was a bad lesson. Despite dancing A LOT, I got everything wrong and my deodorant failed. :o(
Hello everyone.
Welcome back
*rabblauds*
Nice to be back in a posh new home. Well done, rab, and thanks.
Oh well done Rab. It looks rather excellent!
Any possibility to reinstall the script for reordering the Jigsaw story? Or perhaps Orange might host it, since it's an Orange game?
Stuff
Thanks.

[Raak] Not just the borders, but also the placing of the corner elements and spacing/padding within the main box. The 'proper' version is able to apply the right styling to all elements based on where they appear; the IE version has to fake a lot of this by hand and is therefore more likely to apply the wrong spacing to the wrong elements. It just looks shit, basically.

[Raak] Bugger, I don't think I kept a copy of that script. Perhaps you could see if Dunx is happy to host, and mail him a copy. If he's unwilling send it along and I'll pop it up somewhere.

And I can get in at work! Double Hoozah!
The Return
Splendid to see mc5's return to the Morniverse from realms unkown and unknowable. I also like the
Hidden textLittle hidden thingy
- very smart !
Small question
[rab] How does one return to the menu ? I know you can use the browser "back" button, but isn't there usually a pressable button - or am I being dimnthick as usual ?
Aha - it's that faint little "up" down the bottom there isn't it.
Hi folks. Nice colour scheme Rab! I must confess I feel a little underdressed.
Ooooooooooooh
Very very shiny!!
...but suddenly it appears to not like my name.
Hm. This game accepts the é but the Limericks game didn't. Mysteeeerious.
Is it just me?
In the team game, when using IE, I am unable to see the team clours of the persons name wehich could be why some players have confused web colors. Firefox renders them as they should be seen in IE they all the default colour are as in this.

Hallowen is over now to look forward to Bonfire night. We will probably be going to an organised event on Saturday and will be taking along our 4 year old for the first time. Previous years the show has been quite spectacular.

Still don't understand about the magic word thing... well, I'll worry about that if I ever want to post links.
In the mean time, to go off on a tangent; I currently have posession of the email adress a.n.onymous(@hotmail.co.uk) and no longer want it. If anyone can convincingly explain why they need it, perhaps it can be arranged, rather than just let the account time out and go to waste.
Magic word
(Knobbly) The magic word is secret (seriously). Send me an email and all will be revealed. My email address is at http://www.geocities.com/pantsmcprofiles/profiles.html#ros
Nöthiñg
[Néa] Dunno why that was. It should cope with füññy chåractérs better now.

[Inkspøt] I've colourised the colour as well as the moniker now.

What time is it?
Checking the time?
Call me a loony but I've always liked the smell of fresh paint
[rab] In the words of a certain fictional television civil servant, "he who would keep a secret must keep it a secret that he hath a secret to keep." One of the reasons I removed the prompt from the enabling field over at that other place and made it unobtrusive is that most of the time no prompt is needed or wanted. When it is, the user will get an explanatory message. As long as people are shown that a special word is wanted (whether it's actually wanted or not for any given post) and without the hint obviating the need to ask, they're going to keep asking about it.
(Dan) My favourite smells are ortho-nitrophenol and tertiary butyl alcohol, each in their own way nasally sumptuous. What that makes me I'd rather not know.
[Dan] True. And here you get a couple of links for free, so there's not even any reason for it to appear under normal circumstances.
[rab] Two comments beyond my earlier wordless praise.
1. The look of the site really is excellent -- very sleek, very clean, very functional.
2. I tried to access the AVMA game on the site by cellphone today and got a "memory full" message. I'm able to access games on Orange and mcios without problem. Any reason that you know of why this site would be more problematic?
[CdM] 1. Thanks. 2. No idea. Did any of the other pages work?
Nice one, rab - good to see it back.
MC5
Jolly nice rab, well done! I look forward to wasting the other half of my day here.
And I'd say this is
Hidden textvery clever and definitely not
poo
Charlie is my darling
I don't manage to see much tv, and period dramas are a real turn off. So it has been a real pleasure to watch Bleak House these last couple of weeks shown as short episodes. The cast has been great and it has been wonderful to see the various plot lines emerge and slowly twist together. I'm hooked.
MC5 and me
We are back! Great work, rab. My apologies for not appearing earlier but a local storm put my ADSL modem to the ulitimate test; it failed. Prior to that my hot water heater began to urinate, my little router seems also to have suffered from the modem's spike syndrome and my blood pressure thingywhatsit decided it had a mind of its own and inflates its cuff at random moments: It's not been a good week financially as that's about £500+ out of the reserve. *sobs and looks with large green eyes for sympathy*
Old green eyes is back.
(Dujon) Sorry to hear about your recent woes, there's been far too much water everywhere it seems,(even for me). And yes the big old green eyes thing works, so stop it already! I've been having some computer issues as well, although nothing as bad as yours. The combination of new firewall and ignorance on my part kept me quiet for a while. The funny thing is, I had never even owned a computer or used the internet until September, but I felt decidely antsy being incommunicado for just a few days, and needless to say I've missed MC5 terribly. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Cheers Rab!
After an initial flurry this has gone very quiet. (Pooksad) No computer until recently? Are you an old git like me? Good.
Well bonfire night was a bit of a wet squib with the display cancelled due to bad weather, but looking out through the window when we returned a couple of displays had braved the rain.
I wonder if they were French, I can hardly believe they ahve gone on for so long (10 or 11 nights now). One MEP on the radio was saying today that discrimination is very much institutionalised in France. I find that hard to believe. Despite the bad press about being politically correct, equal opps is everywhere and is about to be widened. France seems to be very strong about it's image of the Republic and not accept outside influences that may dilute this.
Head says no, knees say yes.
(Rosie) I'm an incredibly late developer. My flatmate thinks I'm probably due for my mid-life crisis, whereas i feel I'm just shaking off my teenage angst. I don't know why, but I seemed to go out of my way to avoid computers for years. It was only after a cycling accident and time spent sat at home nursing broken ribs that I started fiddling with my flatmates computer. I can't leave the bloody things alone now. Ho hum.
Eyes dried
[Pooksad] Thanks for your kind words. Unfortunately Mrs Duj woke up to my wide-and-misty-eyed ploy years and years ago.
[French bonfires] I've been shaking my head in disbelief at the goings on. Maybe I shouldn't, seventeen people have just been arrested in this country for allegedly plotting (and having the materials for) the execution of nefarious deeds. Their lawyer, predictably I suppose, has already pulled out the race/religious persecution card. Before anyone hops on the racist bandwaggon, I'm not. I have worked with and enjoyed the company of many, many who have migrated to this country from parts remote.
Cleverness
I nore that on another page here. one of us posted a link by just writing it out in full, rather than popping it in as an <a href ... >. The latter works, incidentally. Try it! And, in general, there's no need to be clever and try and second guess what is and isn't allowed. Try the obvious thing, and if it doesn't work, the server will tell you (usually).
Voitures Flambés
One of my colleagues is a well qualified business consultant who just so happens to be of Algerian descent. She has recounted many stories of the racism she faces here... apartments suddenly becoming "unavailable", negative attitudes from shopkeepers and so on. Of course, it is clear that while there may be a political or cultural basis to these demonstrations, rioters are in general just that: rioters. A gendarme friend of mine last night arrested a 16 year old boy who set fire to a Renault 25 in Toulouse. Said friend is convinced that the boys actions were not politically motivated.
According to a French colleague, the riots were deliberately provoked by Sarkozy. It started with the two youths who died in an electricity substation while fleeing from the police. It turned out they hadn't committed any theft. They were running because the police were chasing, and the police were chasing because they were running. Then a few nights later, 150 police were sent in at midnight on a Tuesday, before any disturbances had happened, and acted belligerently until there was a riot, whereupon Sarkozy made public statement about "scum", further inflaming the situation. He's a populist right-wing politician, who provoked the riots in order to be seen to be doing something about them. None of which excuses anyone who torched a car, but the rioters are just useful idiots in Sarkozy's cause. None of this would have happened without Sarkozy. Or so my colleague said.
(Raak) Your colleague hasn't looked very deep, has he? People who torch cars are seriously at odds with their world, and maybe with themselves as a consequence. It is impossible to believe that Sarkozy "caused" the riots even though they might be quite useful to him. From what I've read French society is structurally quite racist, much more so than this country.
[Raak] The car-torching was in full swing when Sarkozy made his comment that rioters are "scum" (rough tranlsation). Of course, the minority group interpreted this as "minority groups are scum". Also, what I fail to see, as I failed to see during the LA riots, is how the actions of the police - detestable as they may have been - justifies such behaviour. Some may say that this is the only form of protest that these particular minority groups have. I vehemently disagree thinking rather that a peaceful demonstration on a massive scale would be much more effective in garnering sympathy amongst the larger population. From this I draw my conclusion that rioters do what they do because they get a kick out of rioting.
[Huxley] The actions of the police don't justify the actions of the rioters, but on the other hand, if the police did incite the riot, the riot doesn't justify the incitement.
corrupting influence?
This site used to be steam-powered, but apparently it is no longer! What are you using now? I hope it's environmentally friendly, and doesn't involve grinding up penguins.

Also, please wish me luck for the appointment I have at the dentist in 1 hour to remove a wisdom tooth. It's not causing me any pain, so hopefully the nerve is dead, but it is falling apart. I still expect to be sore as it's quite a fiddly place to extract from, though.

*wishes dental good fortune*
I had a single wisdom tooth removed about two years ago, and it actually wasn't bad at all.
[snorgle] Good luck! Expect some discomfort, but console yourself with the fact that it's not real pain, and you'll never have pain in that tooth, nor the pain of an emerging impacted wisdom tooth, again. Besides, it gives you the excuse to drink medicinal strong spirits over the weekend until it feels better. :o)
*fortune-wishes*
Pssst, râb?
AVMA killed my accent again. (I wish....)
Losing your wisdom
Yes, unlike CdM, I found it did sting rather. Pace pen, be careful not to drink alcohol if they put you on strong antibiotics afterward! Oh, and if it does hurt, a cloth damped with hot water held to the face is a lifesaver, better (although more short-lived) than Ibuprofen.
[Projoy] I don't remember having antibiotics after an extraction about three years ago. You probably don't get them unless the procedure throws up complications. Where's Lib when you need her?
Alcohol & Teeth
One of the poular antibiotics prescribed after dental ops is Metronidazole - do not take alcohol while taking - or for a couple of days after taking - this anti-b otherwise you'll get flushes, palpitations and symptoms like food poisoning.
antibio
[Metronidazole] Yes, that was the one they gave me. The first time I had w/t operation I was put on a course of anti-fungals, the second time it was just salt mouthwashes... until the inevitable infection happened, and they had to give me antibiotics anyway.
extracted
It came out without much trouble, and it's a bit sore, but the 3 pints I drank this afternoon, and the ibuprofen has helped. It wasn't impacted, it had just become quite decayed. All my wisdom teeth came through without much trouble, they're just a little jammed in, and tend to point backwards as they don't have much room. The root on the one I had out today wasn't that long, comparted to what molars normally are, and was a bit of a funny shape, so this made it easier to pull!

I didn't need any antibiotics and it's not been bleeding too much, either. So thanks for all your good wishes!

random thought
*thinks* Chavs and Chav-nots...
It's a bit nippy
A frost on the ground and the car lock is frozen, all the more reason to go back upstairs to start the decorating on of the bedrooms. On the other hand while I have the house to myself I'll do a bit of surfing first and a cup of tea.
Néa's missing accent
[Néa] Does your accent come out both properly and as a splurge when you're using the same browser on the same computer? If so that's very weird... if not, I may be able to concoct a solution.
*notes that the last three games have slowed down* - not that I play them, mind.
Very weird
It works in this game but not in AVMA (I don't think it ever worked there). Same browser (Firefox), same computer. I have started writing my accent as HTML in the AVMA game and that works.
A gleam of understanding?
Well that is very strange, since obviously it's the set of instructions is followed to interpret your input and display it on this page as on AVMA. For the moment, I guess doing the thing with HTML accents is reliable but a pain as it increases the amount of typing threefold.

Hmmm... what's happening I think is that when you just type the character, your browser is sometimes sending it in an ISO-8959-1 encoding (which my script transforms correctly into the appropriate 7-bit clean HTML encoding) whereas other times it decides to go down a two-byte UTF-8 route. It's not clear why it would choose one rather than another. I shall try and see if I can get this server to ask your browser always to use ISO-8959-1 (which will mean people typing in Mandarin will become unstuck); if not I shall investigate PHP's abilities to look at what you send and see if it can do the transformation properly.

Oh dear
[rab] you're going to an awful lot of trouble for the sake of my accent...
Wow, that's the worst one yet!
[Néa] Oh I don't know - it makes you look exotic! ;o)
Öh kæy
If that hasn't fixed it, I've still got two lines of defence.
Oh, and by the way, I meant 8859-1 above, not 8959. Silly me...
Go rab!!
That seems to have done it!
Go me!!
I got the front page picture story on this week's Motor Trader for one of my less highly-visible clients *grins*
Eccles
[pen]Happy clients can only mean two things, a big bonus and cakes all round.
[Inkers] happy clients are clients who give you even more work to do - yay!! But with a bit of luck, I'll be working on next year's London to Brighton run as well as the Goodwood FOS :o)
On this day in history
I do like Goodwood FOS and free tickets from the Sunday Times but not the rain that drenched us from the finish line back to the paddock, though the black bin liner with makeshift arm holes was better than nothing. Sunburnt and drenched all in one fantastic day.
To my emailbox Google sends me news alerts fo my home town. These days it is usually about the new natural gas terminal and pipeline. But today it sent me a suprise item from the US Navy . A little bit of Milford history I never knew before.
[Inkers] How do you get the home town stuff from Google then? I'm fed up of writing to complain to the editor of my home town's online local paper when they write things sooo badly and make funadamental mistakes. I used to work on that paper (under a different editor)and it was brilliant.
Weather report: Colleagues report temperatures ranging from -5 last night in the woods, -3 this morning in Uxbridge and -1 at the traffic lights as I was pulling in to the office. Brilliant sunshine, no wind whatsoever (the flags are hanging straight down).
(pen) -5°C in the woods? How did they know? Surely they can't be such a dedicated weather nut as I am. I once went for a walk 'round midnite with a thermometer in Slines Oak Valley, near to me. By torchlight I read it at -15°C, better than the paltry -11°C in my back garden up on the hill. -15°C is bloody cold whatever you're doing. This was 6/7 Feb '91.
[Rosie] Because he left his car there while he and a friend were out mountain biking in the dark (yes, they're both nuts) and the temperature sensor said so when he returned to the car two hours later. When I lived in deepest Wiltshire, the yard thermometer registered an overnight low of -11 once or twice... we were on a country estate kind of in a dip at the bottom of the downs close to Sandy Lane/Nine Elms near Calne. This would be December '97/Jan '98. I'd concur with bloody cold but hell, I love it! ;o)
[pen]If you go from the Google home page to About Google to Google Services & Tools in the Services go to Alerts. I put in Milford Haven - News, to be sent once a day.

This frost in the morning is giving some wonderful clear skies these last few evenings it looks like another big chill tonight.

[Inkspot] They do frost forecasts too?
Jimmy Osmond to win!!
Not sure as Google will be picking up from news or entertainment sites. But if you want to know about Jenny and whether or not she will win I'm A Celebrity Get Me Out Of Here try William Hills or one of the other bookies for the latest odds.
[Inkers] No, I don't want to know. I'm restricting my viewing to BBC2 for the next 6 weeks.
foggy outside
Can nearly 10 million viewers of the GBP be wrong? Missed it last night as I was playing with my new toys, but I'm starting to warm to Carol Thatcher which surely must be wrong.

I love my new computer... except for the Microsoft Home Suite which is awful it is more like the old Lotus Suite with 1-2-3 and WordPro the writer and spreadsheet are very poor relatives to Excel and Word and the package has no Powerpoint.

[Inkspot] In answer to your question, yes. They were wrong in the General Election too.
I'd go further. Almost all of the GBP are consistently wrong about pretty much anything where they're given the opportunity to voice an opinion. The "Great" is meant sarcastically.
"Reality"
How can anyone possibly care which of a bunch of talentless attention-seeking arseholes "wins"? The only possible source of entertainment could be a punch-up, which is no more edifying than hoping for a pile-up in Formula 1 or a truly "great" foul in football. Lee Bowyer, Roy Keane, where are you? Tickle my jaded palate.
*imagines a punch-up at the hustings and starts to get interested in politics again* Oh, maybe that's the way to civil war. Is there no decent fun to be had these days?
Remember me?
No. *teehee*
[Rosie] I care. There may not be as much difference between the parties as of yore, but... oh, wait, you were talking about the TV programme, weren't you?
(Bigsmith) Yes. You're from Bristol ISTR. (Projoy) Point taken. :-)
Fighting it out.
I've often thought - most particularly with respect to Northern Ireland before the GFA, but it could be applied to almost any bitterly fought dispute - that the way to solve the whole thing would be to get all the people who are so violently interested in their cause, on both sides, all together in one big stadium. An effort should be made to ensure that they had roughly equal numbers. Then supply them all with daggers, pick-axes, baseball bats etc. And let them fight it out between themselves where no-one else gets in the way and becomes "collateral damage". This to my mind would solve several problems at once:
a) You'd get a result - possibly a true "dead heat" I suppose where everyone was killed, but that would only happen occasionally.
b) You'd rid the world of some highly unpleasant people without having to bring back capital punishment.
c) It could be televised as Reality T.V. par excellence, with Ant & Dec commenting wryly on the various gruesome deaths being meted out.
d) If grudges persisted then there could be an agreed re-match, say every five years to allow for the next crop of fanatics to wipe each other out.
Now the funny thing is - if this, rather than being in a stadium was played out in a huge open field, you'd pretty much have the gameplan of a mediæval battle - except that we'd be replacing professional soldiers with volunteer amateurs. It's got to come.
(Rosie) Spot on.
Coming in during dinner
This is not the way to gain popularity but I must say that most of the entries in that game are the most laborious clunking nonsense and show nothing like the form and humour of the original ISIHAC game, which I'm beginning to doubt anyone has ever heard.
ISTR?
What's ISTR? I tried a search and came up with the Institute of Safety in Technology and Research, International Symposium on Trends in Radiopharmaceuticals or the International Society for Third Sector Research, none of which sound very ISIHAC.
ISTR
[Knob] Lol, no not ISIHAC - I Seem To Remember - you may also see IIRC which is If I Remember Correctly.
etc.
[Knob] This game may prove of interest - if of no help whatsoever.
Odd question
Hello. Slightly odd question, but does anyone know of any cordless landline phones where the base station and charger are separate units? I ask cos I think my current phone (a hand-me-down from the folks) is a bit rubbish, but I don't really need to buy two handsets given that I live in a 1bed flat. However, the phone point is in a really silly place and I don't want to trail a cable for miles so that the phone can be left to charge where I can actually get to it.
goodness gracious, MC5 indeed be back. Hello everyone. =)
Cable confusion
[rab] Yes, though I cannot give you brand(s) or model number(s). It does however involve having two (usually small plug pack) power supplies (unless the 'receiver' has one built in) - one for the receiver - that's the one which connects to the landline - and one for the 'phone handset, which is simply a battery charger. I've just had a look at mine, an el-cheapo Panasonic unit, but it does not have the facility though I'm sure that one of my previous units (Uniden?) did, even though I didn't use it.
portachat
[rab] I've got a BT Quartet system which I bought about 4 years ago [though mine is only the 'duet' version because I didn't see the need to buy 3 handsets]. The base station with aerial plugs into phone point and power socket down here in my kitchen/officy place and the portable handset sits on its own charger which is plugged in upstairs in one of the bedrooms. The phone itself often gets lost in one of the bedrooms but appears to keep its charge for days without sitting it back on its power plinth. Very handy - it's even effective from my friend's house which is a few doors down the road.
Duet
[Chalky] It's more of a 'monet' that I'm after: base station + 1 handset + charger separate from the base station (as the base station has to sit in a place where I don't want to put the phone to charge).
clarification
[rab] That's exactly what I have. Base Station + Handset/Charger in a different place. Perhaps I didn't make myself very clear.
further clarifiaction
ie. the Base Station doesn't have a handset with it.
Cool I'll look into that.
Whee!
My contract's just been extended - only by a year thus far, but it's a start.
[rab] Yay!
Whee!
[rab] Congrats :o)
I've just got the go-ahead for a new pilot scheme which could double the size of my department :o)
aaah ... nice to be needed :-)
neckless
My polo neck became completely detached from my sweater during the course of today. The stitching unravelled and I'm now wearing a crew neck sweater with a rather neat and separate collar. Watch next year's catwalks...
I thought you meant your actual neck had come off for a minute.
(Darren) That's also how I read it just momentarily, and had visions of pen's out-of-body experience. The mind boggled.
site navigation
Is it just my browser, or do the individual game pages no longer have a 'back to main' button?
[Juxta] Try bottom right - a very discreet pale grey on my browser: It should say "pre - up - next".
weather report
It's vary vary dark - hailstorms and lashing rain. Glad I'm at home.
met check
We've had lashing rain and wind this morning and i expect there'll be more, but as I speak, I'm squinting at my PC screen because the sun is hitting it... we've got a window in the maelstrom of meteorological matter right now :o) It's the most light I've seen for about five days.
Someone here once had a go at me for banging on about the weather. Well, thats's Witshire Wisdom for you. :-) Anyway, half an inch of rain measured at Hughes Hall this morning but still a very dry year overall (about 70%) and the grass isn't yet squelchy. Tap your barometers; you won't see them this low very often especially in the south-west.
[Rosie] I'm fickle, me :-)
[Chalky] thanks. =)
and weather!
Also, had our first (and quite possibly last) snow of the year here in Seattle yesterday. I threw a snowball and everything. =D Usually we don't get any until January or February, if at all.
(Juxtapose) Seattle's climate, as far as I can make out, is as close to British as anywhere in the USA, perhaps just a shade warmer. Of course if you're a displaced Brit, as opposed to a Yank, you won't need telling that.
[Rosie] From Boston, originally, never yet hopped the Atlantic (although I would dearly love to). It's nice to know I'd feel right at home over there. =)
Boston, Mass of snow
(Juxtapose) Seattle looks a deal milder than Boston in the winter, which I'd imagine is also quite windy and raw. The worst thing about the British winter is the light (absence of). If it's cloudy as it usually is then it's pretty well dark by 4 pm, and earlier still in the north.
The darkness
Was in Tallinn (Estonia) the weekend before last. It was dark there by 3pm local time.
MWP
What happened to Wild Pants MC?
[Bigsmith] It died and we all moved to other sites. That's the most detail I think we ever really got. Not that there was a coverup or anything (but now I think of it...).
Yes, I did once criticize nights for ending a post with an ellipsis.
The Death of Pants
(Darren) So it was you, was it? :-)
Yes, I pulled Pants down.
(I bet you'd all thought we'd seen the last of the Pants MC puns, eh?)
[Bigsmith] You didn't happen to take a side trip to Kernu Commune, did you? Just wondering...
Dead Pants
[Bigs] If you're really missing the Pants style, you could always play on Orange in Pants mode
introducing a new theme
I've just put my flat up in Lincolnshire on the market, and have made an offer on a bungalow up there for my mum to live in. Is it unethical to charge her rent until she sells her house and puts the cash in to pay for it?! This is all sooo exciting...
Fog-bound here in Herts. Dead busy here in the office, but all good.
Mist and Fog
[penelope] What a strange question. If you are merely acting as a go-between (meaning you are financing the transaction until such time as your mother raises her own funds), then yes. Depending on your relationship with your mother the amount 'charged' could be commercial rent or simply enough to cover your costs in bringing the deal to a closure. Should you be a rich and grateful daughter then you could, at your discretion, ignore your expenditure and not mention the subject.
I suspect that most of England will be under varying degrees of fog today - the football World Cup draw was finalised last night ... joking ... honest ... joking ... truly, truly.
Fog
(Dujon) Widespread fog today in low lying areas but none here up on the Downs. Both Gatwick and Heathrow have had fog all day as you will see from this and this and if you really fancy some cold stuff try this.
How can anyone live in such temperatures? Minus 34°C for heaven's sake! I am aware that some of our North American friends experience such extremes but I cannot, literally cannot, imagine what it must be like. Add to that the nearly three feet of snow they had in the previous twenty four hours, which would hardly warm one's feet, and I'm ever so pleased I'm not living there.
Brass monkeys
(Dujon) The -34°C is rather mild for Jakutsk in Dec/Jan. The mean is -43°C. There is no wind, or snowfall, but the ground is snow-covered from what fell in Oct/Nov, typically about a foot. The only weather is fog, which can last for a week or more with temperatures down to -51°C, the lowest I've seen in 4 yrs daily monitoring. The short summer is like that of central France and it hardly ever rains. I bet they make the most of it. There is an even colder place, Ojmjakon, where the January mean is -50°C with no weather at all, just brief sunshine while the sun crawls shyly above the horizon for a few hours. Young kids are not allowed out of it goes below -45 because the cold air can damage their lungs. If you were so daft as to put the mouthpiece of a brass instrument to your lips in that degree of cold it would blow more than two semitones flat, the least of your worries, I'd say. Perhaps there's a special short Russian trombone.
Cockup, monickerwise
Why has my name come out wrong? Grr!
Semitones of trombone-flatness
Now there's a metric to trump Degrees Stevie, I do believe.
Flat brass instruments?
What's the science behind that then, Rosie? I would have expected extreme cold weather to reduce the size of the instrument, thus shortening the column of air one needs to vibrate. I would expect this effect to sharpen the instrument.
Flat horns
(Phil) The instrument does get a tiny bit shorter (about 2 mm at -50°C) but the overwhelming effect is the reduction in the speed of sound as the temperature goes down. Since there is a standing wave in the instrument the lower speed causes it to take longer to go down and up the instrument, thus lowering the frequency and therefore the pitch. In effect the instrument becomes longer as far as the standing wave sees it. Of course the player's breath warms it up quite a bit, about halfway beteen ambient and body temperature. Even allowing for this (which I didn't in my original posting), the adjustment is about one inch on the tuning slide for 20 degrees and this is just a bit more than is usually available. So if you're playing outside at 0°C all you could do would be to play "short", as they say. Fortunately I don't do marching bands or Sally Army stuff.
So presumably in old, draughty churches without heating it must be impossible to get accurate tuning for the organ for the same reason.
It's pretty difficult to get accurate tuning on any kind of church organ in any case...
True. Accurate was the wrong word... consistent?
(Darren) That's correct. The whole instrument would be flat and it wouldn't sound wrong but any other instrument accompanying it would have to tune down a bit. Rather difficult with a piano. One way round it would be to have a small bleed of a lighter gas into the air the organ uses. You could use hydrogen, helium, neon, methane, ammonia or hydrogen fluoride. Perhaps I should patent this lunacy.
Wouldn't some of those risk producing the Amazing Exploding Organ? That puts me in mind of the Large Hot Pipe Organ which produces sound by exploding a propane/air mix in its pipes.
The LHPO
(Darren) It's blown itself to pieces and taken the website with it. I drew a blank with your link, alas. Helium would be safe enough and it's much cheaper than it used to be. It would be amusing to use sulphur hexafluoride, totally inert and non-toxic. It would lower the pitch by over an octave. I think I'd better shut up now.
Large Hot Pipe Organ (thanks to google), with MP3s (although the site doesn't seem to have the bandwidth to supply them very well).
Cold Brass
My curiosity is partially because I'm playing carols at the village Christmas tree tomorrow evening with the local brass band. Getting 40 or so of us in tune may be interesting if we get a cold evening.
What instrument do you play again, Phil?
Brass monkeys
(Phil) If all the brass is out of tune by the same amount it won't matter. I suspect there will be enough left on the tuning slide to accomodate an average cold evening.
[Darren] I'm currently reviving my interest in playing B-flat cornet, having not really played it for nearly 3 years.
[Rosie] That was what I thought. I might have to get a bit of practice in tonight, and give the old horn a good clean.
(Phil) I hope your lip won't have gone. I wouldn't dare go three days without blowing a few raspberrires down my nine-foot tube. Brass is a treadmill; constant practice just to stand still.
I had that dream again last night - the one where my teeth crumble and fall out. :o(
[Rosie] I was jolly chuffed with my performance as 2nd Cornet. Good news was that my part had nothing above more than an octave above Middle C, so my lip survived with no problems. They've now gone and asked me to join them on Sunday morning to play at various points around the village, traditionally accompanied by hip-flasks. Mr Phil has given permissions, so it looks like I might end up signing up to join permanently in the New Year.
s/Mr/Mrs
Top C
(Phil) Shouldn't be too bad. One is expected to get that note on the 'bone (not too often) but the worst thing about it is reading it, being all in bass clef. The rule is that if it's in the stratosphere and on a space it's a C, otherwise it's a B (usually Bb). If it's a D the composer/arranger is not a trombone player. These high notes are far better played by trumpets and cornets anyway. Power to your embouchure. :-)
[Rosie] I used to feel the same when I played violin, and the music dropped off the bottom of the treble stave. I've never been fond of leger lines.
I always get annoyed when a composer writes a bottom B# for a cello. At first sight, this note appears not to be on the instrument.
[rab] It can't happen too often, can it?
The leger domain
(Darren) Although leger lines are part and parcel of trombone playing (especially 1st and 2nd trombones) I'm very glad they don't go into Tenor Clef which to me would make it unreadable instead of merely difficult. Treble Clef is never used because most 'bonists can't read that either unless like me they're also piano players.
They're dropping like flies
Blimey. Betty Tucker in The Archers AND Nana Moon in East Enders both die in one evening.
[Raak] It happens often enough for you to realise that you shouldn't get caught out by it, if that makes any sense. Depends on what key you're in, you see...
Sharp's the word
(rab) There are B#s all over the place in Beethoven's piano sonata Op. 78, which I am currently murdering. There are few in the Moonlight Sonata too.
dreams
I have that one too, Pen. =/ icky icky
How do you get rid of the smell of a stink bomb? Some little f*cker put one under my front door mat while I was out shopping tonight. I'd like to rub it all over his best Nikes.
Season of goodwill
Hope Rosie doesn't mind me quoting this in here [picked up from Limerick Game] ..
"(Chalky) Cheers. The busiest thing I am doing at this time of the year is firing off apologetic letters to all those who sent a Christmas card to my late Mum. Oh, the sins of omission."
[Rosie] How soon one forgets! This is quite a poignant time for you in some respects, 'though I suspect you will end up doing exactly as you wish, according to your personal bodyclock, and having a rip-roaring time. Have you been deluged by kindly invites so you're 'not on your own at Christmas'?
xmas preps
I've just stirred 2kg of chocolate truffle mix into a glossy, brandy-infused bowlful of indulgence, now it has to cool off to almost-solid in the utility room (luckily it's bloody cold in there) so I can scoop it out with a melon-baller into about 400 truffles. Yum. And I'm still in my pyjamas :o).
I think I'll have my mum and a friend coming for xmas. The friend was coming over from France to stay between christmas and new year anyway, but brought forward his trip because of a funeral, so I've insisted he should come here. [Rosie] The point I'm getting around to is, the prospect of having someone new and 'not family' at christmas is lovely. If someone offers you an invitation, accept it. They may need to invite you as much as you feel like accepting it. Sometimes, when you dilute a family, it gets better.
And another thing
An unseasonal December wasp has died in my salsa dancing shoe. What does it mean?
notes and queries
[pen] .. the inside of your salsa shoe is a more effective as a wasp killer than the minus degree temperatures outside? What does this say about your shoe?
Christmas invites
(Chalky) No invites. I think friends know me well enough not to do that though I wouldn't mind going to my various cousins in N London, an agreeable lot, but maybe they too know that I won't mind being on my own. Or perhaps they're having a tremendous row about what to do at Christmas. You never know. :-) (pen) If a Morniverser turned up on the doorstep they'd be welcomed with open arms. It would be a most original way to spend Christmas. Re - dead wasp. It means you've got hot feet. Of course this should be interpreted metaphorically and with the kindest possible intentions. :-)
Early Christmas present
New laptop. Whee! Thanks, HMG.
*hangs over*
Christmas office do last night *groogh*. About 50% of the company stayed at my house last night, and another 12%, not wanting to be left out, appeared on the doorstep for breakfast this morning.
Ooh! Shiny!
[rab] Snap! New laptop appeared on my desk over lunch.
I think I make the mistake of not leaving my desk at lunchtime. If I did, maybe I would get a new laptop too.
Aah! My eyes!
Something Needs to be Done about high-resolution screens. This laptop has a 1900 by 1200 screen 13 inches wide, but of course all the fonts are exactly the same size in pixels as they were when 640 by 480 was the largest screen you could have. The first thing I had to do to make the laptop usable was to set all the options to get text in a readable size and a mouse pointer I can see. There needs to be a switch at some point from specifying font size in pixels to specifying it in millimetres. (Points won't do, having for better or worse been tied to pixels when a pixel was about the same as a point, and having shrunk along with them. There are probably people nowadays who think that a typographical "point" means a point of light on a screen.) The display would inform the computer of its physical size, and all GUI elements would have their sizes specified in physical distances instead of pixels.
[Raak] That is rather silly...

[pen] We had our works do last Tuesday night. A few of us managed to struggle in the next day... I went home after an hour. That was Very Naughty Indeed.

[rab] you didn't plan to work a whole day? V.N.I. indeed. There's no let-up here... besides which, I got a promotion this morning and am now account Manager :oD. Despite that, I still feel hungover, and very, very tired. There's a queue stalling at the printer right now, and it's making me cry, that's how tired and emotional I am!
[pen] It's not that I didn't plan to skive off a whole day, it's kinda what ended up happening... Off school now though, whee!
one more day
I'm working all day tomorrow... bliss! I might take my laundry to dry on the office radiators as I don't have to have the heating on at home and there's no-one else in. By the way, snow is forecast for the south-east in the middle of next week :o)
Wibble
Strangeness.
Sorry 'bout that. Having server problems but not, it appears, with this website. Play on.
plays
Not that there's much to do. I've been training for the past week, so it's taken me till now to sift through my emails! And I think we're all finishing about 1pm, for some drinks. I'd better get food as well, as I haven't had breakfast and the canteen is way too busy for me to be bothered to go up there.
food on tap?
[snorgle] You have a canteen? Wow. Even though I have the best job in the world, we still have to bring our own lunch in or head out in the car at lunch time to buy it. Today I have pasta and tomatoes left over from last night, mircowaved :oP
Christmas cheer
Don't be surprised if this site falls over during the Christmas period. I think we're being hacked.
point sizes
[Raak] But pixels are quite essential if you're working with a projector and have no idea what the actual size might be!
Merry Christmas everyone!
(Uncle K) You're joking. All my friends have disappeared and my family is 250 miles away. All Christmas does is to exacerbate problems. Why don't we just kill it?
bah humbugness
[Rosie] You could always come to the Middle East. Not much of a Christmas here to complain about... :-D
[Projoy] Ok, there would be some issues of detail to work out in moving to a world of mm-measured font sizes (projectors these days are smart enough to just show the same pixels that are on the laptop screen, however many or few there are), but it would be an improvement on the present situation of fonts getting smaller and smaller as the screens get better. With 150 pixels per inch it's painful already, what will it be like at 300? When you print things out, they don't get smaller and smaller as the printer resolution gets better. The issue has already been addressed there, and things come out, for the most part, at constant physical size.

Happy merries all. Who needs friends and family when there's Bach on the radio 24 hours a day?

Starr quality
What's Mrs Ringo doing on the radio, Raak, I'd have thought her more suitable to the visual media. Then again I've not seen her for years so maybe it's for the best.
[rab] Thanks for dragging the site back. Did it kick and scream?
(flerdle) Not a bad idea! Must go abroad next year. Anywhere. Britain around Christmas is a tiresome and silly place. (rab) May I endorse Duj's thanks. It's all smoke and mirrors as far as I'm concerned.
Merry (not-location-related-not-family-related-not-anything-other-than-the-spirit-of-goodwill-related) Christmas. =)
Checking in from Mum and Dad's
Wireless networks are great! Pleased to inform that everything seems fine on the server front. Will check with Andy when I next see him. Trust everyone's Christmas was good (mine was) and that the impending calendar-related novelty is as fun.
filling The Gap
Hang the expense, I'll put the central heating on now.
hny
*drops lump of coal*
[Rab] Ouch!
you couldn't make it up
News story from the Grimsby Evening Telegraph last week begins... 'A Man and a chinchilla were rescued by firefighters after a chip pan caught fire.' I'd say that's better than a kitten up a tree.
(pen) A fireman I know says that more than half his work is not involved with actual fires and they are trained in many other forms of rescue.
[Rosie] As a local news reporter, a long, long time ago, I wrote a report of a chip pan fire which was reported at at 7.30am... deep fried Weetabix, anyone? And I also wrote a story during the run-up to xmas of a brussels sprout harvester catching fire in the field. The pickers extinguished it using wet leaves before the arrival of the fire brigade. I headlined the story: "Sprouts Come in From Field Ready-Cooked!" and it made the front page of my local rag :o)
What's a comma or two between friends?
Version 1

Dear Mother,

In law, there is nothing to make me say thank you, but the quality of your gifts compels me at least to write to tell you how I feel. Thank you so much for the presents! I was expecting nothing more than a token yet, again, you have exceeded even your own incredible standards.

It was a shame you had to stay here for such a short time. I thought I might have coped, but it was unbearable seeing you leave. The relief was immense when I heard we might see you again soon. I wanted to end it all by saying goodbye now. I hope I will not have to say it to you again for a long time. If you have the opportunity to spend Christmas elsewhere next year, please do not.

Much love Matthew

Version 2

Dear Mother-in-Law,

There is nothing to make me say thank you, but the quality of your gifts compels me at least to write to tell you how I feel. Thank you? So much for the presents I was expecting. Nothing more than a token, yet again! You have exceeded even your own incredible standards.

It was a shame you had to stay here. For such a short time, I thought I might have coped, but it was unbearable. Seeing you leave, the relief was immense. When I heard we might see you again soon, I wanted to end it all. By saying goodbye now, I hope I will not have to say it to you again for a long time. If you have the opportunity to spend Christmas elsewhere next year, please do.

Not much love
Matthew

[Kim] Your BBC website plagiarising secret is safe with me :o)
Qualidy control
In the light of recent comments over at Orange, previewing of moves is now mandatory in the Limericks game. (And, for this move only, on this game so I can check it works). Are there any others that might benefit from a similar treatment?
Testing Fred
That'll teach me to read rab's posts properly.
The Fine Art of Limericks
I would be delighted to see a return to quality limericks in which the following maxim were applied by all: "If you can't think of a line that scans, rhymes and fits the context, let someone else write that line."
The Limerick is the only form of poetry I really enjoy, so I'm delighted that some effort is going into restoring their former greatness.
(Phil) Agree absolutely. "If you cant't say it nicely, don't say it at all. Your turn will come."
And if you can't spell can't you're pissed.
Speling
I managed to misspell a two-letter word once. And I was stone cold sober at the time. It wasn't a complicated two-letter word either. It was 'do'.
rab's QC
I am pleased by the mandatory preview. When I first came across 5 (although I still feel like a neophyte), the limericks being posted were on average outstanding. Being pedantic is no fun, but the general high standards made me try harder.
We probably should have mandatory preview on all games. I was thinking that after putting the unwanted hr into Regurgitated Cheddars.
Hmm.. Not sure about mandatory preview on chat games, or things like AVMA. But cheddars is certainly one that could benefit, as could poetry games more generally. What do people think?
I think the more you use a mandatory preview, the less notice people will take of it. At the moment, limericks is marked out as special, which I think is probably right.
Previews
(Projoy) This is probably true, but at least there's a chance one will notice an error. I'd be in favour of a mandatory preview, and I nearly always preview anyway. It's little bother.
Are you really really REALLY sure?
Well, clearly we should then have mandatory preview on every game, and double preview on limericks. In fact, why stop there? The number of previews in a given game should be a parameter to be set at the beginning, based on the importance of avoiding error.
Should we even allow anything beyond preview at all?
(Darren) Indeed. Should we shut the whole thing down on Health and Safety grounds?
Maybe I should move over to a probabilistic model: you have a single button which, when clicked, may or may not post the move to the server....
[rab] Good idea. Maybe there could also be a low probability of it picking a random move with no relation to the one you actually intended to place, too.
Why not replace the players with bots, who post moves from a list of past greats? Then it would be very entertaining to read, and a lot less trouble to contribute to.
"replace players with bots"?
And will players without posteriors be allowed to stay? *grabs coat and runs*
Or we could extend the preview facility - pressing the preview button would e-mail the suggested move to all other players, who would then vote on whether or not to allow it.
Yes, and vote on whether the player should be permanently banned or not because of their move.
... until eventually, there will be just the one player left who will descend into a preview hell of their own making.

Joking apart (who says we're joking? Ed.) how about a small variation called, say, Second Post - where we have to post TWO lines at a time. So you'd either cop the first two lines, the second two, the last and first, the second and third or the fourth and fifth. Might make for more cohesion. Or lunacy.
Two by two
That sounds fun.
2nd post
(Chalky) Lines that rhyme should not be permitted as a combination, as I have pointed to someone out in Another Place. Makes it too easy. But other combinations might work.
The two posts must also not be allowed to share any letters.
[Rosie] Why not include lines that rhyme? Just makes it a different sort of challenge. In any case, you'd have to sometimes as lims are 5 lines long, so play would go 1+2 / 3+4 / 5+1 / 2+3 / 4+5.
[Rosie] Two lines that rhyme? An absolute necessity for some I'd say. That's why I suggested it. After all, aren't we supposed to be upping the quality?
again ... it will give those fly-in-and-fly-out-and-post-any-old-bollocks merchants [yup - that includes me!] a reason to stop and think.
[Chalks] Surely that's "fly-in-and-post-any-old-bollocks-and-fly-out"? ;)
[re: Lims] If you don't want to let one player enter 2 rhyming lines so frequently, why not alternate between 1 line and 2 (ie 1 / 2+3 / 4 / 5+1 / 2 / 3+4 / 5 / 1+2 / 3 / 4+5)? Maybe we could fill the vacant game spot with experiments along these lines - try some different number of line postings, maybe even posting by a number of words at a time, or even just slipping into Limacres if the going gets tough?
I have taken the liberty of opening an experimental game. The rubric doesn't say that it has to be two lines, so I guess it could sometimes be one, sometimes maybe even three or above if there seems a good enough reason. Should be interesting to compare the results of this lim game with the others, on the same sort of principle as Blockbusters (are five heads really better than three?!)
double top
Cracking finish to the World Darts Final.... I can't believe I just watched it all, hehehe! I wish I'd had a bet on him at 100/1...
Tannoy
Would whoever just started the Round Robin thing please let us know how it's supposed to proceed.
I didn't do it...
It wasn't me, but it looks like an example of the game formerly known as Film and Crescent Styles
Guilty as charged
Sorry - a long time away has caused me to forget my logic - and manners. Twas I that started the round robin letter. I'll do my best to set the thing rolling but just in case it proves unpopular, please consign it to MC heaven. By the way - I like the new style Rab!
*waves hello to Bob the dog*
[rab] Any chance of a compulsory Preview in the new Multiple Limericks game?
Chancer
[Bob] Hello again.

[Chalky] In the words of Jim Hacker (or it could have been Sir Humphery) your wish is my cooperation.

Chalky] Shouldn't that be two obligatory Previews?
*thanks rab*
Iroule] aaaarghhh!
[rab] Hello again too!
[Chalky] *waves back*.
My 10 year old daughter has obtained a copy of Vic Reeves Big Night Out on DVD. This morning I was presented with a cocktail stick with a tiny bag on the end and a tab bearing the message "What's on the end of the stick, Vic?". What was on the end of the stick? The tip of a carrot! I like it.
I had no idea that was out on DVD. Is it the full set?
Darren] The full set of the first two series on Channel 4 - and it is currently on special offer in HMV. If like I could (highlight) copy them for you...

And that was my idea.
Bob the dog
(avoiding over capitalising) Hello!
[Bob]
Hidden textThanks, but if you did, you wouldn't know where to send them, though, would you?
[Darren]
Hidden textEmail me an address. james at nettlesoupdotcodotuk.
[Bob, Darren] That's how we prefer to do things round here.
[rab]
Hidden textneat
rab] HTML ignoramus alert! How do you do that?
[rab]Language!
It is true!
Hidden textWhen your stance is submitted, a thousand fairies raise themselves from a deep slumber and hide your secrets away until brushed upon by passers by.

[Tuj]
Hidden textHello!
Good day
Some good news, at long last... My girlfriend, having finally completed her PhD, moved up to Edinburgh to be closer to me (ahhhh) without a job and very worried about a miserable period of unemployment soaking up what little savings one has after being a student for six years. Having traipsed around Edinburgh in order to visit every company working in her area to drop off her CV, one of them called her back and invited her in yesterday for a "bit of a chat". After an hour-long interview (hmmm, nice "chat") they offered her a permanent job on the spot. She wasn't even asked to leave the room for the panel to discuss it. Now that's what I call a result.
*is very happy for rab and rabfriend*
new jobbers
Wow... good news rab. Talking of new jobbers, we're about to interview the 4th candidate for the open position here at Cock&Bull PR. Out of the three we've interviewed so far, I'd offer it to two of them. We'll see what today's is like.
And I got a new red car today *grins*
[rab] Congratulations! (Through enviously gritted teeth...)
I'm still resolutely fixed-term, unfortunately. However since "rabfriend" has today received a counter-offer from a rival firm, I think I can look forward to a future as a kept man...
pfffft
[rab] tut tut! It means learning to keep house, y'know...
little buglet
[rab] This may or may not be relevant, but I've noticed that a few of the games, when you load their full form, tend to slip out of their table after a certain number of moves. This is under IE, of course. e.g. The Furcation Game.
[Projoy] Do you mean it runs over the right-hand side?
round robin
Just to let all know - I've started posting some ideas re the Rugby Pilg on the Orange pilg page. For anyone new to all this - the Rugby Pilg is (becoming) an annual event where as many players of these bizzare games as possible congregate at a superb venue at a specially negotiated low price to play silly games live. This year May 27 - all welcome!
[rab] No. The table simply stops after a certain amount of time, and all the remaining text appears underneath it as regular text. I haven't actually looked at the source for more detail than that yet.
There doesn't appear to be anything in the HTML source that does it, AFAICS.
[Projoy] It's possible there's a mismatched quote. But I suspect it's one of IE's idiosyncrasies.
tag, not quote.
It doesn't appear to affect all games in the same way, if that helps. Come to that, it doesn't affect my enjoyment of the affected games, if that helps.
Boris is standing for Rector of Edinburgh Uni. Should I vote for him?
[rab] Don't do it - he won't appreciate that it was an ironic gesture.
Oh, vote Boris, he's harmless. And in case it hadn't been realised I'm back, for the moment. How is everyone?
[nights] Hello again!
[rab] Do you think Boris will bother to turn up when needed?
I'd go for John Pilger myself.
*waves from Cambridge*
I've got a whole two-bedroomed house to myself. It's beautifully quiet. And either some rich college, or maybe the taxpayer, is paying for the heating. Woo.
toasty boasty
Good for you, rab. I dont have my central heating on any more, s'too 'xpensive.
Smash Hits is closing down, boo-hoo!
[Smash Hits] I thought it already had. Shows I'm not a 'youth' anymore.
Rah hey
It's been a long time since I participatoried in a good game of MC....or any game of MC for that matter. I recognise some of the names from years gone by (when I was called 'Pave'). Love, death, marriage and pregnancy (not me - the wife) have kept me from the game, but I'm older, wiser and back...apart from the wiser bit.
That name rings a bell...
[Pave] How goes the equestrian centre?
fugging admin
I'm still at work at 6.20pm on a Friday night. I have a backlog of 80 press releases to write (I'm mid-campaign) and I've spent the whole day doing bloody admin. *gnashes teeth* Saves me spending money, I suppose, which is just as well, as someone has nicked it all out of my bank account anyway.
(Mine the Gap was a daft name anyway!)
[Projoy] Still a dream! The fiancée is now the wife (with mini-pave on the way. Still, when I win the Euro-millions.....
Euro Millions? Does that mean NZ didn't happen either?
Old Zealand
Ah, forget I asked that. Just checked the chat in Another Place.
Dreams
The world likes nothing better than the taste of chewed up dreams! You never fail if you never give up. The world loves a fighter. And all that tosh that makes you feel better when you aren't where you want to be yet....!
Hello!
Ee, lad, 'aven't seen you since the days of t' YAMCS. Welcome back to the Morniverse :)
Tuj!!! I think I owe you an apology...Were we in a championship game when I vanished? Was it YAMCS that had the play window to the bottom right, and games/players to the right?
There was some sort of tournament going on when YAMCS met its maker, though I can't recall if I was playing you at the time... The main thing I remember about the YAMCS layout was the big list of games down the left hand side. And it was a big list - 30 game slots!?
Yup, I recall once having a name on every game. Proud day. I need to get out more don't I....
If you do then I do by extension ;)
Tuj
We'll have to go head to head in the Lockisseum...although I can see you are still a formidable player, with new tricks no doubt.
Something like that ;) Mind you, my Lockisseum match with Darren hasn't exactly been all grace and flair!
Play softly and carry a railway sleeper?
Jeeeepers Tuj
That challenge game with Darren is pushing all new boundaries! I was lost by move yellow!
You know, spending the day with 19 13-year-olds from Ontario has made me somewhat tired. Odd that.
Not as tired as had it been 13 19-year-olds.
At least then they would have made more sense. The whole experience left me feeling rather old.
If it's any consolation, that feeling just gets worse and worse the older you get. :)
Youth is wasted on the young.
...and wisdom is wasted on the old.
And wasps are waisted in the middle. (Sorry!)
Ah well - I'm enjoying the Lockisseum. I don't think it was around when I was last into MC (before the break). Tough game though.
[Projoy] Oh, thanks, that makes me feel better. At least they're going home today.
Server unavailable
Hello. My network provider seems to have lost their border router. While they have more than one route to the internet this component is common to them. No ETA on when they'll get it fixed.
Okay. Back as of a half hour ago. Pardon me for disturbing you.
Update
[Dan] Thanks for the update. And here's one of my own. I got engaged last night. It was a very pleasant, if emotional, experience. I can highly recommend it.
Wooo-hooooooooo!!!
[rab and rab-darling] Congratulations! Excellent news. :o)
[rab] Congratulatoryay!
[rab] Well done. Who to?
[rab] Good show!!!
rab] Congratulations!
[rab] W000T! Congratulations to the both of you! I'm gonna have to get my suit drycleaned now...
Chiming in
[rab] Congrats!
Thanks for the kind words. I shall pass them on to my lovely darling as she doesn't read any of the MC sites herself.
Rings 'n Things
[rab] It has been said that "I am." is the shortest possible sentence; "I do." can be the longest.
No, joking, my friend. All the very best to both of you.
"I got engaged" ?
You have much to learn - it's "We got engaged" now that you're engaged :-) Seriously, congrats !
[rab] Well done that man. Happy, contented and in Edinburgh. Life has little better to offer than that combination.
[rab] Congratulations!
[rab] Nice one ! xx
Yeah! Fab, rab!
rab has a girlfriend!
Congratulations!!
[Néa] Now, now. Don't confuse me, I've spent the whole weekend trying to work out the correct number of 'e's and accent placement in the word fiancée...
[rab] The word is "finance".
[Darren] financé surely?
Congrats
[Rab] Slightly slow off the mark, but all the very best to you and the future Mrs Rab.
[penelope] Now you mention it, since rab's finance is female, it should be financée.
If he's lucky, perhaps she is a financiée
[rab] Congrots.
As a French speaker, might I step in? As the word comes from French, I'm assuming that it follows French rules. Therefore Rab has a fiancée, whereas Rab himself is the fiancé, as French takes an extra 'e' to signify femininity. Of course, you might already know this, in which case my apologies. I'll keep my teaching to my job.
*gives nights a little three-legged wooden stool so the jokes no longer waft over his head*
[penelope] snnrk!!!:-)
Assume a spherical robin
The robin is limping a bit.
Rabiancé(e)
[rab] Congrats indeed. I actually think that getting engaged caused me a more dramatic change of lifestyle then either getting married or having children. Now whether that was a change for the better ....
[Rosie] Seems my outgoing won't connect with your incoming. It's taken a few days for me to find out .. I'll try sending from another address :-)
(Chalky) OK. Should I have another address for you?
Clunking Limericks
(Projoy) You're right. I misread Marc's 4th line due to mild inebriation. Can't post the fifth line because I did the first, hence this.
[Raak] After two weeks of non movement the robin continues to limp, my killer blow was not enough.
[Rosie] I have resent from a similar-looking email address [replace hotmaildotcom with gmaildotcom] :-)
emails
(Chalky) Got it. :-) Have stored new address.
[rab] Congratulations. =)
Squeak
Now, what with all the nerves leading up to the big moment it completely slipped my mind that that it would entail planning a wedding. I bought a book at the weekend to help me out, but the first thing I noticed is that most of the wedding literature is aimed pretty much exclusively at the bride. And it also seems there's a whole industry devoted to fleecing couples (or their parents) at the start of their life together. Particularly depressing so far have been some of the menus I've seen on the web, typically wanting to charge you 25quid a head for the most lacklustre three-course meal you've ever seen. To put this into perspective, our engagement meal was at a cosy local restaurant with a reasonably high standard of cuisine and imaginative menu, and with a nice bottle of wine and after-dinner port came to not much more than the above figure. Nice to see the economies of scale being passed on, there. I'm sure with enough perserverence we'll be able to find either a venue with a decent caterer, or one that will let us provide our own, but I can already see that's going to be a lot of work.
Limpin robin
It seems the win detection's a bit screwed. I thought I'd fixed it after Tuj had some trouble with it, but it seems still not to be working. I'll look into it tonight.
wedding
[rab] Given that this meal is traditionally called the "Wedding Breakfast", you could take it literally and get in a job lot of Coco Pops. Sophistication and economy all in one go.
oooh...wedding breaqkfast joke!!!
Sorry in advance...Three friends were all getting married on the same day, and they all decided to use the same hotel and church (staggered, of course). They were all 'innocent' in the way of love, and knew that on their wedding night they would all finally 'do-ooo-ooo it' (As Rik Mayal would say), but as the newly weds would all be having breakfast in the hotel with the families the next day, they knew it was going to be difficult to talk to each other about the experience.

"I know" Says one of them "We'll secretly tell each other over breakfast - by means of a code. Ordering a slice of toast means we did it!!!" They all agree.

Next morning at the table, the first guy orders his breakfast from the waitress...

"I'll have a glass of orange, some cereal and three slices of toast please" he says, winking to his friends.

"I'll have 5 slices of toast" says his smug friend. The last chap orders his...

I'll have a glass of orange, some grapefruite, and 7 slices of toast please..." he says....and then as the waitress walks away, he winks to his friends and calls out to the waitress again...

"Please can you make 3 of those Brown bread..."
Up the bum
(Pave) Shurely jokes like that are not still current? It has a nostalgic resonance for anyone over 60 (which I am) because I knew friends who were virgin bridegrooms, (at least I'd have put money on it). Seems incredible these days.
well....
[Rosie] I currently live in Portsmouth (not really by choice), and am in the process of moving. To give you an idea of what the place is like: Virgin = less than teen, Grandma = teen and over. My wife and I joke that we are getting kicked out of town because we waited until we were married before we started a family - and before that we weren't related (and she's way over 15...)...and to top it off...neither of us have ever claimed benefits for our 15 kids...which we don't have either...
In short...I guess not :-). Due date May 2nd for number one...dead excited ;-)
well....
[Rosie] I currently live in Portsmouth (not really by choice), and am in the process of moving. To give you an idea of what the place is like: Virgin = less than teen, Grandma = teen and over. My wife and I joke that we are getting kicked out of town because we waited until we were married before we started a family - and before that we weren't related (and she's way over 15...)...and to top it off...neither of us have ever claimed benefits for our 15 kids...which we don't have either...
In short...I guess not :-). Due date May 2nd for number one...dead excited ;-)
oops
Works PC glitch...sorry.
Pompey
[Pave] How far are you going? Just interested as (when not at university) I'm a Hampshire-dweller. Hope the moving process is improving for you, all the best.
15 kids etc....
Dublin woman goes into the social to claim child benfit for her 15 kids. When asked their names she replies "Micko". When pressed for more name she replies "Theyre all called Micko". Social officer then asks "So when you want them to go to bed, what do you say?" "Micko, get to yuz feckin' beds". Officer continues "And to call them all for dinner?" The reply comes "Micko, get yuz in here fer yuz dinner."
The officer thinks a moment, "But, if you just want one of them, what do you do?" Without hesitating, she replies "Janey Mack! That's easy - I just uses the surname"
Pompey again
(Pave) Yurss, I've heard that about Portsmouth over a long period and wondered if it were true. Maybe it is.
Tuj - Farnborough area still Hants...You?
What you have heard of Portsmouth, it is true. I can't hold my head up as I walk the streets for fear of what I may tread in. One day...on a side street directly off of the main drag, I had the misfortune to see a woman squating behind a car to relieve herself (lots of open shops and pubs....lots of pubs...many, many pubs ...and all crap, but still she chose a car). I felt safer walking around a rough area of Glasgow (Pollockshaw) at night on my own, than I do during the day in Portsmouth. It is only in existence to give the saying "arse hole end of the world" an actual grid reference...
[Tuj] À propos of current-ish thread in OrangeMC, how old are you?
Nights
Posted it up over there ;)
Mr Fixit
Right. I think I've finally fixed the win-detection bug.
*sigh* I'm bored. And hungry. And still have 2 hours to go before I get home and cook a piece of ham, which promises to be ultra-delicious as it's proper Lincolnshire ham. *sigh*
*Suddenly Hungry*
Hunger
Me three. Eating Dutch tonight, off to the Heineken Holland House which is the Winter Olympic base of one of the country teams, I forget which, but it'll all be orange. Tomorrow night off to the Sponsor Village, got a curling lesson booked.
Well, that was delicious.
Do tell!!! (Only had Pizza ;-( )
*BURP*
Repeating
(pen) You burped a full two hours after your ham. What will happen in another twenty-four God only knows. Keep us posted. :-)
Dutch Kwisine
Well what a gourmet delight that was (not!). I do like the way the Dutch get all exuberant when sporting occasions are involved. A big tent with an ice rink in the middle, bars and and hot dog stands round the outside, and the Winter Olympics AND Ajax-Inter on TV screens everywhere and a live band. Well, the Dutch have medals to celebrate. I wonder where the GB house is...
[IS,P] Look under the doormat. It's great fun being in Canada at the moment, my friends have decided I'm an honourary Canadian for the duration, "as Britian seem to be, well, shit" at the Winter Olympics business.

[Pen] Don't patronise me, I can do that all by myself...
[nights] Of course you can. You're a clever boy, aren't you? ;-)
[nights] I am sooo tempted to say: "Yes, dear."
[nights] I suppose you'll want congratulating for that narrow victory over the Finns in the curling final, then?
curling
Tried it last night in the Sponsor Village. Rather fun, actually.
curling?
One slipper, one trainer, a yardbrush and a doorstop? What's that all about then?
(nights) Canada? Where's that, then?
curling
[pen] Have a butchers at the hyperlink game over in Outer Space.
oi oi nights!!!
Hello nights - are you aware of the appeal lodged in your Lock match? Might still be able to fend them off if you're quick...
ice rocks
[IS,P!] Which one is you? ;o)
cakegeek
I have just baked the most blinding carrot-and-banana cake for my own pleasure. It was supposed to be banana and walnut, but I didn't have any walnuts and I was short of a banana so I substituted a carrot. I thought about taking it into work tomorrow, but I'm going to keep it for myself. I love Sunday morning baking.
[curling] Of course, certainly, go Newfoundland- uhm, Canada go.

[lock] Agh, forgotten all about that. I'll be straight over. Thanks for the notice.
[nights] Darn it.
now hear this... cross post, apols
Dear I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue Mailing List Member,
We should be in a position to email you details of the next three I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue recordings within the next few weeks. We are planning recordings in the North of England, the Midlands and the West Country.
However, there is still good news for those in the South East and the Greater London area, as we bring advance notice of two recordings of the hit Radio 4 series 'Hamish & Dougal : You'll Have Had Your Tea' which are to take place in London this March.
Hamish and Dougal (aka Barry Cryer and Graeme Garden) are the two Scottish gentlemen made internationally quite well known from their appearances in the 'Sound Charades' round on ISIHAC. They are accompanied in the series by Mrs Naughtie, a cleaning lady cum housekeeper played by Alison Steadman, a local laird played by Jeremy Hardy, and a 4 piece ceilidh band. The musical director is Graeme's son John, otherwise known as the keyboard player in the internationally renowned pop combo 'Scissor Sisters'. This is Hamish & Dougal's third Radio 4 series.
As usual you are advised to book soon for these recordings as they are extremely popular.
The first recording will take place at 7.30pm (doors open 7pm) on Monday 6th March at The Mermaid Conference & Events Centre (formerly The Mermaid Theatre), Puddle Dock, Blackfriars, London EC4V 3DB.
Tickets cost £6.50 each and are being sold by the Cochrane Theatre box office on 020 7269 1606 (which is open from 10am - 6pm, Monday to Friday). There is no booking fee. Where possible tickets will be sent to the purchaser, but they can be collected on the night if preferred.
The second recording will take place at 7.30pm (doors open 7pm) on Sunday 26th March at The Duchess Theatre, Catherine Street (off The Aldwych), London WC2B 5LA. Tickets cost £6.50 each and are obtainable by calling the box office on 0870 890 1103. (The theatre box office is run by a ticketing agency, and there will be will a handling charge of 60p on these ticket sales. The advantage is that they are open 24 hours a day).
Thanks Pen. Can you keep us posted re the midlands recordings please?
[Btd] Sure, I just post up the emails when I get them in :o)
feeding the troops
Banana & Carrot bread gone down well in the office. Troops all onside. Banana Dictatorship underway.
cake
Banana bread and carrot cake are two of the best things ever. Together, they will indeed conquer the planet.
bucket shop - today's left overs
Dear I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue Mailing List Member
This is to advise you that there are still some tickets left for our recording of Hamish & Dougal starring Barry Cryer and Graeme Garden on the evening of Monday 6th March at the Mermaid Theatre in London. They will be advertised to the general public from Friday so you'll need to book tomorrow if you don't wish to miss out.
This was in my inbox this morning - if you want tickets, hurry!
Full House!
Completed on the bungalow this morning. Going to spill champagne over the doorstep tonight :o)
Bungalow
Congrats, pen!
So that's why there will be no more Dick and Dom on a Saturday morning.
[Botherer] cheers :o)
[Inkspot] Can't afford to have all that creamy muckmuck cleaned off the carpets every weekend!! sorry...
<whisper>bogeys</whisper>
Bogeys? I thought pen was talking about something much worse.
[Darren] You've obviously never watched... recommended. BBC1 Saturday mornings, while stocks last.
Paws
Hello. Is anyone else finding these page taking a couple of seconds longer than normal to display?
[penelope] Worse than watched - I know one of the script editors. Yes, I know what you're thinking: they have scripts?!
wheeew Matron!
Fearne Cotton...Creamy muck muck....and this is kids TV...
[rab] Mine's quite zippy today actually.

[as for the rest of you ...] I haven't the foggiest what you're all on about.
[Chalky] Mine too. Maybe my previous visits happened to synchronise with one of Andy's ultra-paranoid (i.e., frequent) site backups.
Dick and Dom?
The name suggests an animated cartoon whose principal characters are a *cough* certain organ and a PVC-clad woman with a whip.
Wouldn't that be Dick and Domme? I think it suggests a slightly different relationship as is. :)
We're now well adrift of the weekend's discussion of Dick & Dom, so I shall start another topic. I'm having home-made spicy chickpea and cauliflower soup for lunch today. What's everyone else having?
Lunch
[pen] Probably nothing, but I might have something later.
An everything bagel, 2 kabanos, a large spring onion, half a head of chicory, a Russet apple, two fruit Shrewsbury biscuits, a bottle of water, and a couple of Sudoku.
...and a stick of celery.
Had mine at 11.30: All day breakfast sandwich, raspberries and a Cadbury's Twirl. Doing the healthy option today.
yum
Cottage pie and carrots - but I shan't be eating a main meal tonight because I hope to 'Walk The Line'.
I had a slice of flan, a cheese sandwich and a packet of Monster Munch.
...and the hunt continues for a ceremonial and celebratory venue that both happen to be free on the same day next spring. I'm amazed anyone ever manages to get married...
stress-free nuptuals
[rab] hey! Why not hire yourselves a ... Wedding Planner! [for the equivalent of two years'orth of joint salaries].
... should that be 'joint salary'?
ach whatever - I was only being facetious :-)

Seriously though, the wanting to do it and the asking if you can do it and the agreeing that you're going to do it and the telling evryone that you're going to do it - that's the easy part.
[rab] why not run off and do it? Or slip off and do it... or just do it now? My mum and dad did it, and returned to my home town to tell their parents after the fact. Both sets were fine about it. One of my sisters did it too, got married in the US as none of us could be there. I was never one for running though. Just have a big party when you come back, with none of the weighty responsibility that comes from having the ceremony and the party on the same day. I think I'm a proponent of avoiding unecessary hassles wherever they're avoidable, not buying or paying for stuff that you don't actually NEED to have a good time, and wary of pandering to everyone else's expectations with regard to weddings, whilst forgetting my own and those of my significant other (if ever there is one). I'd quite like to have a new frock to do it in though.
Lunch
Well I had risotto ai frutti di mare, and not very appetising either. I should point out that it was canteen risotto, but the other 'dishes' looked worse. [Raak] Those Sudoku sound tasty!
[Raak] I thought you'd written a program to do them for you, so that you didn'nt need to succumb to the temptation of actually doing the blasted things.
[SM] I did, but it didn't help. :-(
[Raak] Is that why you've started eating them instead?
Oooh!
Ooh no, you shouldn't eat a sudoku! If they're not properly prepared they could be contaminated with deadly toxins! Call me a coward, but I'd never risk trying a puzzle that could poison me if the person setting it made the tiniest mistake.
Sudoku
It's not really poisonous as such - more of a number.
*dons 2006-style F1 goggles*
Champs and Chumps
Bahrain tomorrow with a scarlet front row, with Alonso on the second row. It will be a good test and an exciting afternoon.

Which is more than can be said of the apalling display put on by the Steve Johnson renegades at the Millenium Stadium. Basic handling errors, Wales were lucky to come away with a draw (make that very, very lucky).

Yay! for Renault and Alonso. It was a good race which helped pass the time while doing the ironing.
I missed the GP - was out - and I still have all the ironing to do :o(
Watching things while ironing
[Inks] And can someone please get rid of Brian Moore from the BBC rugby commentating team. He adds nothing to the understanding of what's going on (other than occasionally in scrums) and is so blinkered in his pro-Englishness it's ridiculous. He is the rugby equivalent of Fred Trueman as a commentator. Also, to continue the cricketing thought, the current English rugby team makes me think of the cricketing expression 'flat-track bully' - they only look good against sides they can dominate physically.
[INJ]For a 6N before next years World Cup things are looking dire for the northern hemisphere, the teams of South Africa, Austrailia and New Zealand maintain a high level year on year the rest have occasional years of brilliance. Wales have shot their winning coach to appeal to "player power", they now enjoy the training sessions!!!! England have less of a hill to climb than Wales for the next game.
forward thinking
(INJ) Forward dominance is how England won the world cup, it is how Australia, and to a larger extent the All Blacks play their game. The major difference is, they also have devastating backs and centres. Rugby is played off a forward-dominated platform so to look good against teams you can dominate physically is a pre-requisite of winning rugby. England, at the moment, still have the forward power, but problems abound in the half-backs and particularly at centre. My humble opinion also is that Corry is not the right man as captain. The handling errors on Saturday were abysmal and New Zealand, in particular, will rip them apart. I would also wager that Ireland will beat England next week
sold! (not)
Just had a silly offer on my flat from a guy who has not yet sold his place. Refused it. He's the wrong end of a chain. Awaiting a better offer.
going...
And another offer, only marginally less silly, 20 minutes later. I've given them the lowest acceptable price, and with the condition of exchange of contracts within 4 weeks. Fingers crossed.
*crossing her fingers*
Gone!
Woo-hoo!! Have got the price I (eventually) wanted and the quick exchange :o) Deep joy. Now I can buy myself a pair of salsa shoes.
congrats!
[Phil] Thanks :o)
Hear ye!!!
The Lockisseum Seems a little quiet. We need a few more faces in there I feel. One on one (and the soon to be tried Doubles) is a very different style of play. Sorry if I am acting all unofficial spokesperson like, but I had to 'Big Up' the Lock as a great MC site.
Spring has sprung today here in sunny Rickmansworth. 10 degrees C. That means the grass will start growing - I need to get TWO lawnmowers fixed...
[pen] Ah, Spring. Like Summer, but without the essential quality of warmth. You get what look from indoors like beautiful bright sunny days, then step outside and the slightest puff of wind tells you the air is still coming in from northern Siberia and you have months yet of bundling up like the Michelin man.
[Raak] Don't be so grumpy! Whilst I'll give you that 'Ne'er cast a clout till May be out' (and that's May blossom not the onset of June) holds true, there's nothing to stop you enjoying the feeling of spring. You have to admit it gives your demeanour a filip, doesn't it? And I've noticed my thermals dry much quicker on the washing line in spring :o)
[Raak] Also, it's the traditional time to start reproducing.
[Darren] Well, you get home chilled to the bone and the only thing to do is burrow under a pile of duvets, preferably with a second body to warm each other.
More than "preferably", presumably? Unless there's something I've yet to learn about the progenitive effects of burrowing under duvets.
Vernality
The good thing about Spring is the light. Shedloads of half-micron wavelength photons. The air is slow to respond, but will eventually. (pen) Interesting, not to say revealing, observation. The air has been very dry in the last week or so but not every spring does that happen.
Bad Hair Days
[Rosie] Don't I just know it's been particularly dry - I've had hair problems for most of February and all through March. It goes dead straight when the air's dry - I need a little drizzle.
fortihacker
email:ca920105@gmail.com I just like spam! I'm collocting junk email...
Oooh!!!!!
fortihacker, send me pizza menus, double glazing letters, load applications, free newspapers....I love collecting that rubbish as well. Now make like a Nubbock so we can carry on.

These hackers are running out of ideas for getting our email addresses I reckon....
load?
Loan...sorry, I have a cold.
topless
I see Wembley Stadium has a new 'cabriolet' top-down look this morning.
hospital visiting
I've visited Salisbury District Hospital 3 times in 20 hours. The first time to install mother for her knee replacement op that was scheduled for this morning, then again to take some books in because the op had been 'postponed' for a day, and then AGAIN to uninstall her because the surgeon is now too ill to do the op. Now she's on 'standby'. Ironic phrasing, given the state of her knee.
What a pain
How frustrating, Chalks, for you and your mother, to endure the anticipation (which probably isn't too pleasant) all over again.
*inserts daily piece of banter*
Orange tea
Is anyone else having problem accessing Orange, I've been having error messages since just before midnight.
*Goes off to kitchen to put the kettle on for helpful cup of tea for Dunx*
Orange fleeeeee
I'm lost!!! Dunx is down...no Lock,no Orange!!! I'm going warm turkey (can't go cold...still have MCiOS and Mc5)....
oh bliey
I've just received notification that the flat I'm in the prcess of selling is now 'listed'... hehehe. Rather them than me, I'm pleased to be out of all the hassle that it entails. I'm not opposed to listing as such - architectural heritage is important - but I need something a bit more uncomplicated right now.
that would be 'oh blimey'
Orange
[Inkspot] Thank you for confirming the timing of the downage.

Orange is back now, though.

Very QUIET in here. You can almost hear Radio 3.
The clock in here is about 5 minutes fast. The sundial needs realigning.
Let's see
Should be fixed now.
hush up
Radio 3's getting good...
heavy breathing
The cold is getting better - I'm taking drugs for it.
I thought women were never the slightest bit affected by colds :)
correction
[rab] I have Man Flu. Lord knows how I caught that, haven't sniffed a man in months.
The essay I'm trying to write
AAAARRGGGHHHHHH!!!!
The essay I'm trying to write
I've just realised is pure shite...
Its utter frivolity
Its sheer lack of quality . . .
I think I'll just set it alight.
*sighs*
oh oh owww!!
As an MC player, I hang my head in shame to say up until recently I had hardly ever heard ISIHAC. To make up for it (because the couple of shows that I had caught were jolly good) I bought myself the anniversary edition. I'm shocked to find that it is one year older then me, but we share the same birthday....and that Dame Judi Dench wasn't the only one that had to pull the car over for fear of laughing into a collision!!! I feel like a man who has been blind for the last 33 years, only to find that I was just wearing a hat one size too big!!!
(Pave) A noble admission. Now, who else is going to "come out"?
my sides hurt!!!!
the reason ISIHAC is a half our show, is because anything over that hurts ones sides....I love the anniversary edition quote by Humph...."Nixon became the first US President to visit China in an attempt to repair a Presidential rift. Chairman Mao was thrilled at this, as he was getting fed up using the escerator..."
[pen] I must have a touch of Bird Flu then.
[Raak] I shudder to think how you got that ;o)
http://ravenblack1973.blogspot.com
My cat has just given me a great birthday present....the little bugger. Rather than write it all again, I have posted it on my baby blog. Enjoy.....I hope every one else had a great weekend too!!!
No cake.....no candles......no secret boxes......*sob*
Whilst I'm on missed birthdays: Happy 34th to ISIHAC.
[Pave] Oh! Was it your birthday then? :-)
[Chalky] yeah...but to be honest, I only mentioned it because the chat was very slow. Birthdays aren't a good thing for me.
I'M ON THE TRAIN
Cor. Finally got this wireless internet marlarky to work on the GNER line.
Grand National
The bet is down. In memory. Here we go.
woo-hoo! We have faster broadband in the office. Faster than what, I don't know.
The usual expression is 'faster than a speeding bullet'
[IS,P!] We're not allowed to bring guns into the office, so I can't say.
My news - cross-posted
From under the stairs
[rab]With the last true move in The Furcation Game being back in July 2004 is it worth gently putting it to rest and moving on?
Looking out the window this morning through the drizzle the garden is starting to pick up and look colourful again after the bleak winter. A fine show of daffodils and the Forsythia and spring Jasmin are a real delight. Last weekend over the Bank Holiday even managed to cut the grass.
But the highlight after coming back from Broad Haven was the start of the new series of Dr Who, with New Earth setting the scene and arc for the series. It was so good I forgot to drink my cup of tea brought in by Mrs Inks.
(Inkspot) Smug bastard. :-) I've got three daffs out of a potential two dozen or so, though the Forsythia has come out. It's the cool dry weather (official) that's made everything late. Life's Grim Up North Surrey.
DOWNTIME WARNING
There may be some downtime from about 7pm tonight while we reinstall the OS. Hopefully we'll be back in fine fettle by midnight. Apols for inconv etc.
Nearly working
It\'s nearly working again. Woo.
Yay!
[Inkspot] Yes, maybe it is due for retirement. Oh, and could someone please finish the Dutch game.
De gaam is eended.
Weather
It's reached 15°C for the first time this year at Maison Rosie, the second latest date for this since I started records in 1983. The average date is 22 March but is very variable, standard deviation 24 days. Earliest was 27 Jan 2003 and the latest 25 Apr 1986. Are we going to have a hot summer? HTFSIK.
Backslashes
Don't know where they came from; I didn't put them there, or here.
[Rosei] WTF is HTFSIK?
*gets it*
Better late than never
Unparliamentary Acronyms
(pen) I knew you would. :-) The backslashes seem to accompany apostrophes and increase by one each time you preview. Test: (lots of backslashes removed, rab) 6 previews.
Well, thats (sic) that theory down the pan.
Going Dutch
The game has nine lives, it seems.
Right - I'll investigate the slashing.
It's now "fixed" I believe. Let me know if you notice anything else that's a bit odd.
Do you want me to put the Dutch game out of its misery, or shall I just let you guess how many 'o's after the 'M' in Mornington are required. (It's not very many).
ooooooooooooooo
(rab) How many, FFS? I've tried up to twelve. Thanks for fixing the apostrophe problem, BTW.
[Rosie] It was three. You had a typo with "Crescent."
typooography
(Darren) I have a very red face. It's the monicker effect.
Three.
butterfiles in the Amazon
A story game has been created from the ashes of Dutch.
[Rosie] Today was a perfect day for the garden it was warm enough here in North Wilts to have lunch outside (south facing garden). If the sun shines tomorrow the curtains will be drawn to cut the glare on the tv while the Grand Prix is on.
(Inkspot) Not (gasp) Swindon? Nice here too, max 17.4°C.
raise the drawbidge
Near to Swindon, just south of J16 of the M4. Little old ladies would lie in front of bulldozers than see Wootton Bassett become part of Swindon, and the town of Swindon is never mentioned in polite company.
HTFSIK?
I haven't got it yet :(
Swindon, Profanity
(Inkspot) Swindon must have something going for it even though they don't build steam locos there anymore because my niece's finacé commutes there every day from Chepstow while she herself works in Cardiff. Mad! (Phil) You disappoint me, man. Why? How the fuck should I know?
Not that one should really moan about it, but the clock in here is over an hour fast. At least, I hope it is.
Timezone
The server thought we were in Berlin. I've now told it we're in London. (Although, as it happens, I'm in Croatia so I hadn't noticed the clock-skew).
Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to have fixed the problem. I'll look at this more closely when I return.
[Rosie] Ah, of course. I had the first two words as "Hope the" and couldn't get my head past that.
Ruggerpilg
[Rosie] Having lost your email address, you might want to look into the Pilgrim game... Likewise Simons, Botherer.
Pilgrimage
(Projoy) Just Been There, Done That. My email address is at http://www.geocities.com/pantsmcprofiles/profiles.html
Regarding Chaos on the Line
[CdM] You just had to insert economics, didn't you. *falling around giggling*
Tert
Tick tock
The clock seems to have corrected itself now - I think. I'm confused by being in a different timezone.
update
For those who have an interest...
News on RugbyPilgIII
[Néa, CdM] Seeing that post reminded me of a thought I had in Hong Kong, which is that it appears to be rapidly approaching a phenomenon closely related to the 'Shoe Event Horizon'.
Currently perfectly good 20 storey buildings are being torn down to make space for 40 storey ones. This demolition increases the pressure on commercial space, thus increasing the value of the space in those buildings. Before long, before a building is complete the most advantageous thing to do economically will be to pull it down again and start buiding an even taller one. This process then becomes a self-reinforcing spiral.
Orange pipped
Hope it is back up and running soon.

When the Beeb announced the other day that it was going to dipense with Grandstand on Saturdays, part of me jumped with joy at the ent of this leviathan. The coverage of sport on the BBC has gone downhill, it only covers what it feels comfortable with. Take snooker wall to wall at the moment completley at odds with the low viewing figures it achieves. How long does it give to Match of the Day to cover all the days football, they may only have the rights to the Premiership but why not cover the Chamionship as well. And as for the rugby... just don't get me started. Just to say it could be greatly improved, it is final whistle quick chat then stop for the footie results. Motor racing is on the website but nothing on the screen, there is a whole raft of racing outside F1. The propsal is to have specific programmes, on BBC1 to make way for other output mmmmmmmmm? More day time tv as if Mon-Fri was not enough!!

Personally, I like the snooker.
(Inkspot) These days if you want sport you pay for it, and a good deal more than the licence fee.
[Darren] Me too, which is rather a bad thing when one should be cramming all the maths one can into one's head, not wasting time watching things of that ilk...
(Tuj) While watching the snooker, work out in your head the angle of departure of the object ball as a function of the direction of the cue ball and the distance between them in ball radii. Differentiate it with respect to the cue-ball direction. Appreciate the skill of snooker players.
[Rosie] My forays as a very amateurish snooker player suggest to me there's more to be gained from experience and practice than maths skills! I'm told darts is good for one's counting skills also, though I've never found that much of a spectator sport...
angles
Croquet ruined my snooker. Not that either of them are/were much good, but there was a definite detrimental effect.
'Croquet Ruined My Snooker'. Now there's a title for some memoirs!
*snigger*
Apologies
Sorry for thr outburst in Limericks. Am I the only one who is offended by Marc's 'style' of play?
Stylistic boobs
(pen) No you are not. I tried a little irony but it zoomed over his head. Others have dropped hints recently but obviously to no effect.
Embonpoint and all that
(pen) I've had another go.
[pen & Rosie] Am totally with you on this one. I don't know if Marc even bothers to read this game [he certainly never contributes to it - or any other game that I've noted] but if you do [Marc] can we just request, because you seem to contribute so regularly, that you expand your mind a little to matters other than tits and sexist innuendo? Call me old-fashioned, but my humorous streak is more likely to be satisfied when a wider subject matter is brought to bear. Selfish? Maybe. But I have a hunch that others may agree. Thanks :-)
[Chalky] You can count on my support on that matter.
I've already indicated support. Although I disagree that he come across as a dirty old man; I think he comes across as an eleven-year old.
Marc certainly comes across as deeply immature. Personally, if I were rab, I'd consider blocking him because he just seems to annoy people, and appears to revel in doing so.
Well, frankly, I can't be arsed -- which is not to say I don't think the complaint is valid, just that blocking ain't really my style.
... now why doesn't that surprise me?
[Chalky] Is that some kind of complaint?
I assumed it was a comment on your somewhat cavalier approach to the Great Game.
Chalky can speak for herself, but my best guess is that it was a compliment. :-)

FWIW, I think that blocking should only be carried out in extreme circumstances, which are currently not met. Dan and Dunx can also speak for themselves, but I think their general view, suceessfully implemented on their servers, is that we should sort these things out among ourselves if at all possible.
However, I do suggest that we try to get rab banned on account of his somewhat cavalier approach to the Great Game.
If that last post doesn't get CdM banned, I don't know what will!
*is horribly inspired to start a banning game and becomes convinced that StDogmael is making voodoo spells at her expense*
[Blocking] The penny drops...

Sorry if you've found the server a bit up-and-downy the last couple of days. It should stay up longer now.

*reminds herself not to make ambiguous comments when she isn't going to be around for 12 hours*
[rabsweetums] What CdM said. Barring someone from the site should IMO only occur when threatening/stalking/pronographic activities take place on a regular basis. Marc is just a silly twit sometimes, harmless really; and anyway, WHO would pen and I and others have the opportunity to have a pop at now and then if he wasn't in the firing line ...? :-)
I was going to say
Hidden text[Chalky] Glad to see you and pen aren't getting your pretty little heads all worked up over this - now why don't you do some needlework or baking to relax.
, but I remembered, they know where I live. I vote against banning, and for bearing in mind other people's sensibilities.
My worthless 2 pence worth
Blocking's nasty - I'd go with Chalky's assessment. Also, CdM may be right above in his 11-year-old not dirty-old-man surmising - I certainly posted some horrible tosh when I debuted as a 14-y-o (albeit I empathise on bad scansion not lustful obsessions).
(Tuj) Use words like debuted and you really will be banned. No, you won't. :-) It reminds me of the sports commentator's medalled, i.e. won a medal. The Now ShowwwWWW had some fun with this last Friday. That's sport - it hollows out the head. It would be a ludicrous over-reaction to ban Marc. He will get the hang of this place eventually.
Well, at any rate, at least you can see why I still nurse this ambition to set up my own MC server.
*thwacks Phil around the head with her trusty rolling-pin*
*heats biscuit cutter to red-hot heat and leaves interesting corrugated circular imprints all over Phil's thighs*
Barring people
If anyone's going to be barred around here it should be William Shakespeare. ©2001 Peter Kay
(ISP) You're fired. Ed. ©Private Eye passim.
[Chalky & penelope] Thank you for not killing me outright.
Yeah, there's no case for a ban, unfortunately. :) I don't think he's gotten the hang of the place in the two years or so that he's been around, so I'm not sure I hold out a lot of hope that he eventually will, but that's not enough reason to exclude. [Rosie] What's wrong with debuted? What would you say?
[Tuj] You may have been 14 when you first posted, but you were amusing and you took on board people's feedback and adjusted your behaviour to fit in better with how the place worked, rather than assuming (as some others do) that you could do just as you wished, and that any criticism should be rejected out of hand. (Also your scansion wasn't really especially bad when you first showed up, although it certainly did improve).
[Projoy] Try debutted instead.
butt me no butts
Hm. "debutted" produces 10,600 hits on Google, with "debuted" providing 11,500,000...
[Projoy] I wasn't being serious.
(Projoy) There are some nouns that really ought not to be er, verbed. I'd say début is one of them. I'd have phrased it differently or said first started. (Darren) I like "debutted". It sounds like an American whose arse has fallen off.
[Darren] No, but I guess some other people use "debutted" in all seriousness. I guess it's because the 't' is silent, so it feels it needs a second, voiced 't' to enable the "ed" ending to click on. Same problem, of course, with past-tensing any noun or verb that ends on a vowel sound, such as "diminuendo'd" (but for some reason not "précised")
I don't like the word "verbing." I think we should call it "Rosieing" from now on.
I think debuted is singularly infelicitous, mostly because of the pronunciation issue – is it debutted, daybood, debood, daybutted? Made his début’ seems the best way out to me.
Day-byood seems the most obvious pron. to me.
These days, I have lost the "y" in daybyoo, and now pronounce it dayboo, as do the French who don't do that thing with the letter u. I'm sure someone has had a go at me for my resistance to verbing in the past (poss. CdM?) but I still resist it where possible.
Heavens to Murgatroyd, I've been Darrenned! (Phil) Nobody does a proper French 'u' in this country - eg déja vous.
[Rosie] Re: "u" - I quite agree. Re: "Darrenned" - On this occasion I prefer "Darrened" as the double "n" tends to shift stress towards the second syllable. I think Gyles Brandreth should be informed.
Hang on, on re-reading that my logic would make "traveled" more correct than "travelled", which, as every cricket-playing gentleman of Blighty knows, is simply wrong. Therefore I retract my double "n".
Doubling
(Phil) The single consonant is the American way but to my eyes it looks wrong, because it makes the previous vowel long, eg tra-veald, la-beald, unra-vealed, spaymd?, Dar-reaned etc.. How many customers have you bar(r)ed? Don't answer that. :-)
I prefer baning them :-)
Debuing (?)
Alas, whenever I go beyond a couple of sentences I always burst out in flowery essay words... Although in this case it must be from too much sport watching. Meanwhile...
[Projoy] Thank you, I'm very touched by your comments on the time I debuted (daybyooed, for my South UK Estuary tongue). I cringed many a time when I look back in the Yorkives at how I was. However, my scansion I regard as my strong point, and as far as limericks and the like go I more frequently stop myself on account of not enough good material.
YAAAAAAAAAAAAAY
My first Mornington Crescent book"

Baby Alexander Henry "Pave jnr" Black. Huzzah!
And.....
Marc....jeeeeeez! I remember early Tuj, and I remember what I thought of early Tuj...and I am glad Tuj is still here! Marc does seem to, how can I say this..."Lack the light touch required by the game..."
On that bombshell
Anyone for a new game?
After you
[Tuj]New game ... an old fav like When Hillocks Collide but I do like a bit of something different but have no idea what that may be.
[Inkspot] I didn't mean a whole new concept necessarily. I was just pointing out there's been a free game slot sitting there for a bit and it would be nice to create a popular and interesting game - but is anyone interested?
In the meanst...
Good old 11-MC can give us some time to think.
Speak of the Devil!
Hello Tuj! Yes, I am glad you are still round! I'd be up for a new game. I don't know why I remember you....maybe when I saw TUJ I thought of Taj as in Taj Mahal...the blues singer. I was listening to a lot of his stuff back then, so your moniker would have really stuck. Good times :) What was the MC group that had the games down the left, the game in play in the top right and the move/comment box in the bottom right? (I think I asked before..?)
When I was a lad...
[Pave] I'm guessing you're referring to Huxley's fairly short-lived YAMCS (Yet Another MC Server) - which is where I first remember making your MC acquaintance. I'm sure I'd been at !York for a year or two by then however.
Eeeeeee!
YAMSC hmmmm....I recall seeing you at !York, and this other server, so yes, I guess you are correct there - I also recall there was a one on one challenge tourney going on - and I think it was me and you as I vanished.... Who or what was a Huxley, and what happened?
Huxley was a player. Sort of like Stevie but... Hm. No, exactly like Stevie, now I come to think of it.
Old MC sites
Whatever happened to Wildpants MC? It seems that it upped and went, but this site looks very similar, with some very familiar (oo-er) names.
Whilst we are on this subject....
Whilst we are on about "What ever happened to...?" I'd like to know "what ever happened to retro conversations that started with "Whatever happened to white dog poop?""
Whatever happened to all the other people on this site?
Haha. Sorry.
[Pave] Erm... I think I must have missed those...
:)
Whatever happened to white dog shit
"The only white dog shit you get these days, Leeds United." I forget which comic it was...
[Bigsmith] Pants MC died and MWP (for whatever reason) decided not to bring it back up again, so we all migrated to the other MC sites.
Forgive me for being rude, but wtf is the point of finishing a game if you then just start another one that's exactly the same.

I'm starting to think that we've by now seen pretty much all permutations and combinations, and without sufficient influx of new blood there's a vast oversupply in the mc server market. With its being the newest, I propose we close this site.

Hmmmmm
Much that I would loathe to see it go, you do have a valid point. It is the slowest moving of the MC servers....Is there anything we can do to make it that bit different?
[rab] I did attempt to start something else, but it didn't work, so I sulked. I'm sure we can come up with more excitement to fuel the flow through the server... Kick something splendid and popular in place of the Furcation Game perhaps? However if it is proving to be a burden to you to keep it open, then sadly it would have to go.
[rab]There is obviously an issue with the fact that this server hasn't got many games which aren't found on others. I'm surethat, given time, it could build up it's own distinctive set for which it would be THE place to go (after all, AVMA is one of the fastest-moving games in the Morniverse). But, it's up to you, of course, though maybe we could have a deliberate effort to try a few games not found elsewhere first.
AVMA is one of the things that came to mind as something worth keeping. I'd be quite happy to kill off all the rest (yes, that includes the limericks) with space for about 4 others.
[rab] Sounds drastic but perhaps could lead to a great maelstrom of creativity and ideas and new games! Or calamity of course...
AVMA is one of the greatest games on any of the servers, as it is a genuine competition, and the human instinct is to try to win. Multi-line limericks are nice too. I have preferences for games (e.g. good news/bad news) that others find tiresome, and vice versa. Hence I think a variety of servers, each with a little tweak of individuality is good for the MC world. If I had a bit more about me, I might set up my own, but it would have to be Domino/Notes-driven, and I don't have a copy of Notes designer any more :-(
[Rab] well, personally, I'm gutted that you should even suggest such a thing - but that's your prerogative ....
[Phil] Seconded on the good news/bad news :P... perhaps if others don't want to play that game, for instance, we could try a rhyming version? I'm just thinking part in terms of new combinations of games, and part in terms of some of the game mashing-together encountered in the Furcation Game (qv).
The Morniverse seems to be going through a mid life crisis of its own with I think players dropping out and moving on and with the pool of active players reduced. When visiting the three servers it is noticeable how few play on all three, but concentrate on one either Orange or MCiOS. To me MC5 has been about the originality of the games, it is a challenge and I can safely put up my hand and say that I have created some real distasters, but that's life; kill the game and move on the next one may take off. I have said my piece about Furcation Game before and will say no more.
It is whether MC5 is to be a clone of MCiOS or have its own original flavour, I would go for the latter.
Orange is a useful isolation ward for certain types whose extensive and incomprehensible scribblings make me lose the will to live. For that reason, let's keep all three going.
Bacchal scene
When this place started I felt it had a somewhat distinctive feel, what with a few original games and quite a few people (immigrants from Pants, I think) who didn't contribute so much to MCiOS and Orange. As you're no doubt bored with me saying by now, I favour a fast turnover, and would much rather have a dozen try-outs that didn't go very far (don't regard them as disasters, Inkspot) on the offchance that you get the occasional gem (Woo-doo-doo-doo doo-doo-doo etc Hitler springs to mind) instead of yet another tired 'The Return of Boardmans Combined Bad-Tempered Cresso' hybrids. My feeling about classics (such as Good News/Bad News) is fine, but they're generally best - at least started - in unadulterated form, with variants just springing up during the game on an ad-hoc basis. I would have hoped that after 3-and-a-half years a distinctive set of games would have built up.

I've banished the Furcation Game to a Better Place; and think that they may be some scope at some point for a Lite version in which mash-ups of classic genres are played for a few rounds and continuously mutated, morphed, juxtaposed and hybridised but without the need to write a whole Shakespearian play cum Wagnerian opera every move. This could also be the proper place for hybrids of the type described above, rather than taking up a game slot to itself.

I would also propose killing the Long Game (on the grounds that, no, there doesn't "have to be one of these", does there?); the ordinary Limericks (but keep the multilines; or merge the two into a freeform jazz version); possibly the cheddars (except I like the concept of a game you can contribute really easily to).

I should say that this place takes almost zero maintenance effort from me nowadays, keeping the machine its hosted on up and running and un-hacked-into notwithstanding, so it's no effort to keep it up and running. But I would like to feel more minded to contribute.

All that said, I suppose I can't really complain about lack of originality given that the site itself is basically a knock-off of Dan's and Dunx's respective endeavors in the first place. I could add some features (like unplayed games automatically expiring, or maybe a death vote system) to encourage a faster turnover but I'm not sure how they would work.

*phew*
[rab] agree with most of what you said. This site has always been my first port of call, particularly because it does have games that are easy to contribute to without venturing into essay-land. Also, it seems to have been the place for guessing games, AVMA being a fine example, Who-Doo-Doo etc another - and who could forget the Cryptic Crossword game? I really enjoyed puzzling over those and learning from others' expertise.
Like Inks, I have noticed a drifting away of certain key and prolific players from say a year or so ago, but that's just human nature I s'pose. Also, I think this server took a bit of a bashing when the Orange 'create as many games as you can festival' occurred and a few of the MC5 favourites found their way over there and remained [OMC now has 21 games!]
Blooooooood
We need exciting games to attract new lood! BLOOOOOD yesssss....my precious! Bwahahahaha...erm... I'm not getting any younger, and some of this text speak confusses me - is there an idea of a game in there? I don't know!!!! BWahhahahaha blood etc ad lib and fade.
The Long Game
[rab] Very good points, and thanks for sharing your input - you may claim not to have to do much maintenance but we're still here and able to play thanks to you, so we really should be doing some more things you want to ;)
Personally I think you make a good point about long games - they seem to have passed out of fashion. Perhaps we could replace the long game with a series of "short games" - games of MC people aren't afraid to win after a week and could be encouraged to by experimenting with some lesser-known rulesets.
I wouldn't mind a cryptic game again, though Blob (its finest practitioner) isn't seen around so much these days
[All] Feel empowered: don't be afraid to go forth and cull. I've set the Long Game as winnable with the standard move for a bit; will reverse if people want to keep it.
[rab] Well, I got in first... Am I the first person to win a long game?
I have murdered the regular limericks game.
We demand a MONTY PYTHON game. Nee.
Googling my name
Tuj means "immediately" in Esperanto.

This page is the 69th brought up by Google (UK) if you search for "Tuj".
Can we please have a 100% ban on all Monty Python comments? The show finished decades ago and comedy has moved on. It's one of the few things that really boils my blood these days.
Hmmm
How about a Monty Python game that skirts around the sketches....but never quite mentions Monty Python....
Admin, spare this site
I think three servers is the right number. More is too many; two is too few. For myself, the orkplace firewall blocks both here and the Dunxatorium, but, curiously, lets Dan's place through. That certainly further distorts my own posting habits. I do visit here more assiduously than I did the WildPants server, and I was sorry to see that go.
Monty
[Pave]Several game slots have been created for player to start games, get in there and see what happens. MP is not for me but may excite others. Whether it fails or succeeds keep coming back with fresh ideas and grab that empty slot.
Seething
(Darren) Shall we also ban The Goon Show? Round the Horne? Rowan and Martin's Laugh-In? Not Only But Also? MPFS may not be your cup of tea but that's no reason to ban it. Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!
The only thing I'd like to ban is mention of bans. Unless that's some horrible contradiction that's going to cause the internet to implode.

Meanwhile, if there's anyone reading this who's been watching and not playing, and wishes to join in, now would be an excellent time to do so. A few new players would give the place a breath of fresh air methinks.

*walks in out of the rain with soaking wet hair, puts car keys, phone, stethescope and bleep down on the table and sits on the chair*. Aah, that's better.
[Lib] Here, have a mug of hot chocolate.
Sanguinary ebullition
I'm not seething (see above) but was wondering why Darren was. Here's something lighter. During tonight's big football match David 'Spooner' Pleat uttered these words: THE SIGHT IS IN END. It'll be in next week's Colemanballs section of Private Eye with the name of any one of a thousand people who spotted it, possibly mine.
*falls in water*
It is done...Bwaaaaahahahahahaahhcoff coff hack HURGH!!!
Holds up red card
They think its all over - and it is.
Hmmm
At least let it start!!!
Herehereherehere! What's going on here?
Personally I liked "Hampster" which is overdue a resurrection in a different form...
After all, it's seven years since 'One slice of Strawberry Tart'
Hamster
Actually that game died without filling a single page, so I take it all back. Screw the Hamster idea. Ermm. I mean...
is it wrong
To giggle at a mention of "sword" and "pork" in a game? If so, I am a wrong un! ...and I dreamt...
[Pave] I still haven't got over Wymo's move in that game...
{Tuj} I know!!! Fancy slipping like that! :)
Oh, don't go!
Just a quick note to say that although I don't post as much as I used to (due to work commitments, and more), I would be very sad to see you close down!
spring cleaning at mc5
I came for the limericks, but stayed for the Clerihews.
MC5 has a nice comfy feel for me. I like that it's not intimidatingly big. I don't much care for mcios or Orange. I think kill votes or timers would be a nice addition. If the games rotated more swiftly, us newcomers wouldn't feel as shy about trying to create them. *shy shy*
Proffer
As befits my profession, I shall have to do some statistical analysis on the corpus available to me to see if it's possible to devise a heuristic that identifies the 'running out of steam' point.
(rab) You could get a heuristic off an old steam engine but you'll need a big spanner.
sighing
I would post more. But I'm just not amusing enough. *sigh*
"I Woke Up From The Strangest Dream
Whence all but I had fled
When I woke up I found out why:
I was already dead."
Just something that came to me.
I woke up from the strangest dream
[Raak] Very nice!
The game in fact shares its title with a song by the band "Liam Frost and the Slowdown Family", who I saw earlier this year supporting the wonderful Elbow. It's not my favourite of their songs, but it inspired the recursive dream game.
And on that note
The next game to be started shall be Game 100 here at MC5! Any ideas how we should mark such an occasion?
[Tuj] Sorry, that's what happens when I browse but not visit the Chat Game.

< goes and sits on the norty step >

No worries
[Inkspot] Took me a while to figure out what you meant :P and there was I thinking I was being premature suggesting that!
Flat chested
It looks like we've just bought a flat. The much-vaunted Scottish system is enormously frustrating at the early stages, as each property is essentially sold via blind auction. But now we're in a good position because we can pull out if the survey reveals anything unpleasant, or we can reduce our offer, or whatever, but the seller can't sell to anyone else, or decide they're not selling after all. Whee!
[rab] How exactly does that system work from the seller's point of view, then? Is there something that could stop you from dropping your offer down to £10, for instance?
Yes, they could simply refuse.
...and then the seller has to weigh up the relative pros and cons of accepting a lower offer than the original one, or putting the place back on the market. In our case, I don't anticipate any problems with the survey - but it's nice to know that we can pull out if the surveyor says the place is about to fall down, but they can't suddenly decide they're not selling to us after all.
Missive Trellis
Actually, I now understand we haven't quite reached that stage yet. The seller now has to agree in writing, so until we get that it could all be orrf.
Restricted attendance
Just a (necessarily) brief note to inform that I have broken a couple of bones in my left hand, so I might find myself not posting very much for a few days. I'm always surprised at how typing one-handed reduces one's speed by so much more than 50%, and how sore a broken bone can be.
Eeek
Bad luck Phil. Won't ask how you got it, and hope it heals soon.
[Phil] You do seem to be 'going throught the wars' as we used to say. Poor you. So it's spaghetti for the next fortnight...
time!
Blimey o'trousers! I would never have thought that having a baby would take up quite as much time as it does! I mean yes - they need 24 hour care, but who would have thought that it actually ment 24 hours being awake to look after them!!! He's been a gem up until a couple of days ago when he decided to go on 1 hour gaps between feeds!!! They grow up so fast! Anyway - it's why I have been scarce recently!
All that stuff and everything
Been out of the morniverse for a while due to work commitments (setting up my own business) and generally being hectic, but getting back into it. Delighted to see MC5 overhauled with some fresh games. Yippee!
Oooff
Well, that was more complicated than anticipated. Looks like the surveyor actually did some surveying (contrary to horror stories I've heard elsewhere) and picked up on some things that warranted a closer look, and so we had to send someone up to clamber around on the roof (with most buildings here being three or four storeys, it's more of a skill than it sounds). Turns out it's nothing too serious, although we will need to do a bit of work when moving in. As it happens, the scope for downward offering was limited by virtue of the next offer down being quite close to ours - so we ran the risk of the seller saying "Well, in that case we'll offer it to the next bidder"; turns out that things aren't quite as simplistic as you might first imagine.

I do wonder how much loaves of bread would cost if they were sold by blind auction, though.

They'd go mouldy by the time the auction was completed.
(Darren) Hard, too. A week-old baguette is an effective lightweight version of a baseball bat.
Between teeth
Incidentally, I should probably mention that the place is on a Crescent in Morningside. But not, sadly, Morningside Crescent: you have to go to Aberdeen to find one of those.
Lack Lustre
The current games on mc5 seem a bit slow moving. Perhaps its time for a couple of new ones. Any ideas?
New game
Something easy to join in with please...
But no; no specific ideas. I am part of the problem, not part of the solution.
Incidentally, against all my expectations I just found out I passed all bar one module of the second year of my degree... I just feel like telling people that, 'cos I really wasn't expecting to.
end games
Yay, well done Knobbly
New games it would be nice to kill off another of the current games but have tried and failed. I do hope Pave has not set the killer move of Around the Python Laugh-in to something cryptic and unwinnable.
It would appear he did. Shall I set it to the normal, or just quietly shunt it below the line. Slow movement here I think is a side effect of Dunx's festival of crescent.
Not very happy vocabulary
I was trying to send it on its way as I had an idea for a guesssing game but would have a finite life. I can understand the need for a quick game for players to dip into when they are browsing and this game would not in all likelihod not be one of those.

The proposed game is a crossword where players can be either compiler or solver or even both. A 15x15 grid with 1A completed or blank with just the clue, solve the clue give the right answer, next player sets the next clue (cryptic or straightforward). After that the rules become "elusive". Does the crossword have to be symetrical? does it get filled in like a scrabble board with one clue leading off the next till all the blanks are symetrical and agreed upon? If the grid is blank how do we know whether it is 5A or 7A?

The would start something like this

A B C D E F G H I. J K L M N O
1 1C E L L
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
12
13
14
15

Would anyone be interested in this type of game and is it worth rab shunting off Around the Python Laugh-in to make room?

[Inkspot] Having to reproduce that grid each time kills the game instantly. It would be an utter pain in the arse to edit that each time a word was added (and when does it get updated? after every guess? each new word?), and the chance of screwing it up would be very high. (Note how many mistakes have been made just counting backwards in the Celerity CDs game! And note how hard it is to get certain participants to realise they've been getting the rules wrong.)

If you want a cryptic crossword clue guessing game, I'd strongly recommend doing it as was done before, with people submitting and guessing clues as they felt like it, with no grid.

I think, incidentally, activity on all three sites was waning even before the Orange festival, although that has made it more obvious. We're just not getting the same number of participants these days.
Apologies, incidentally, if there's an acerbic note in all that, I'm just generally pissed off about a lot of stuff today.
I agree with your points about the problems of updating and my greatest fear of solutions not fitting previuos moves and having to be redone. But I needed feedback like that so as not to make a complete prat of myself by just setting up the game with all of it's woolley thinking. There are other types of cryptic games already played on this server, but I wanted one that had a finite life span.
There is still an empty game slot.
Ooh. That's interesting. A new game has appeared in the wrong place...
Right, that's sorted; and the end-game trigger for the Python game has been set to the usual.
[Darren] Someone needs to do a good, solid corpus-based statistical study on activity rates in the Morniverse. I'm sure it would make a good PhD topic. My impression is also that activity has declined, but it was less busy than now when I first joined eight years ago (bloody hell, eight years). In those early days, fresh with the joy of discovery, i can remember having posted the last move in every game on York and MCiOS, and being quite at a loss for what to do next once I'd done it. Especially on weekends. In retrospect this was a bit rude, but I was immature and callow even in those days. :) I find that nowadays I tend only to post in a small subset of games and even when bored am unlikely to stray into the others. Maybe other people have gradually settled into a similar pattern.
[Projoy] I certainly have settled into a similar pattern, though I'd like to think that's because I'm less obnoxious now. I'd say the most concerning trend is the seeming lack of interest in the game of Mornington Crescent itself - our one token game here, for instance, is crawling along quite pitifully, and Long Games all over the Morniverse have slowed to the pace of Jeremiah Snail, the 1956 All-Dorking District Champion.
Mornington navel-gazing
I think that posting only to one's favourite games is quite normal; it's certainly my style, but it depends on how creative I'm feeling at the time, if at all. A good rule of thumb is that if you have nothing interesting, witty etc to add to a game then wait till something more promising turns up. There is increasing verbal incontinence and rule-bending simply for the sake of posting something. The whole thing is beginning to annoy me, and not just me, as I know privately. We could also do without those who post under more than one name, which is deceitful and sad. One has already been outed and I have a very beady pair of eyes on another one.
Meanwhile, I'm rather concerned that a bunch of people who are posting elsewhere seem to have stopped posting here. Was it something I said?
I'm here! I'm here!
Trouble is, the limerick games are no longer and during the short bursts of time that I actually enter these portals, there's nothing else that takes my fancy. Apart from AVMA. Sometimes.
*waves from Praha*
[CdM] Maybe a long verse game? Although admittedly the last few attempts at "hard poetry" didn't seem to attract very many of the current Mornipersons.
Where did pen go?
[Tuj] Maybe you drop it on floor?
Time, time
Lack of time is making me ration the games I follow. If the general turnover was higher, I'd be active in a greater number of games. As it is, I tend to monitor chat, limericks, haiku, glow worms and on the whole that's it. Because they are the games where you can just dip in, make a worthwhile contribution to, and then disappear back into the ether. But of course, if I never find time to visit other games, I don't feel I have the right to kill them even if they are getting long in the tooth, and that reduces game turnover . . .
[Proj] You know what I mean ;)
[SM] That's the vicious cycle, isn't it just? We never did quite foster the quick turnover as even after upheavals we're still too cautious of scrapping games... I'm wondering if Clerihews (and possibly Cheddars) have had their day...
Vicious cycle
[Tuj] Yes, indeed. In fact, I will bring up something I've advocated before and failed to convince people about; I think it's worth having a 'rapid turnover' section, a 'slow burner' section and an 'immortal' section. The immortal section would contain chat and possibly a long game. The rapid turnover would tend to be plain MC games, but with a smattering of other quicker-moving experiments. And the slow burners could have the game slots left over. I have long thought that the biggest problem is that the slow burners hog too many game slots. The shorter-lived games really do need their own section otherwise they keep getting crowded out.
[SM] Good, well-thought points. Would perhaps work better with games marked as to which they are rather than with separate sections though? And I'm sure having AVMA rather than a longer game would encourage some excellent short attacking MC games.
[SM] Hmmm... I'll think about this. I can forsee a difficulty in deciding which category things should fall into; though, of course, this can always be tweaked according to demand.

Anyway, just wanted to remark that it's only just got dark here.

It's been dark for about an hour here - I'm home now but have been in the pub with friends - watching the England Game. *sigh*
[Chalky] Dratted England. I spent the evening vociferously cheering Sweden, but sadly now England will be playing on my birthday :( roll on disappointment...
It's getting light here. Time for bed. The solstice will occur at 1226 GMT today after which it's all downhill.
The most wonderful day of the year *happy sigh*
Yeah, the flip-side is that it was fully light again at 4.30am, which woke me up...
I stayed up all night on Saturday night, chatting online... went to bed at 5am, by which time the sun was up and the birds were at full volume. The nights are soooo short in midsummer, it's quite eerie. I remeber camping in Perth (Scotland) reporting on a rally around this time of year, and it still being light at 11-ish, and then of course, there was the great trek north to the North Cape of Norway in midsummer 1995... magical. I always want to head north and be mostly outside every summer now. Instead, I sit behind this bloody desk staring at the screen - although I do have a nice pair of trendy geek-nerd specs now. They make me look like Nana Moouskouri. :o/
Longevity
[Rab] I'd would suggest that should be set up when the game is defined. If a game proves popular as an ephemeral it would have to be explictly killed off and reinstated in the slow burners section when next a slot appears. The important point is that the short-lived games section is explicitly flagged as such, and everyone knows that not only do we have have a licence to kill them off, but that we are expected to do so. Possibly even flag the game's creation date and give it a defined expiry date - three months or so tops, I'd say, pulling a figure out of my hat.
I still quite like the idea of doing it implicitly. If active games were sorted in order of sluggishness or otherwise (a bit like at Orange where you can sort them by most recent post, but based instead on the frequency of the last, say, five posts). Unloved games drop to the bottom, active games fizz to the top. Every week the least active game is automatically culled (unless, say, it started less than a week ago or it has been given some special protection like the Furcation game).

I make this suggestion in the secure knowledge that, as I can't code, I won't implement it, which is probably the worst kind of backseat driving. :)
time...
What SM said about time (though this is still my first port of call in the Morniverse, and for mostly the same reasons he gave). I don't agree about typing games in advance, though - how would you know in advance whether something is a quick turnover or a slow burner?

I quite like Projoy's idea about automatic culling. Or, and this is completely off the top of my head, how about turning the process on its head? The opportunity to start a new game is always open, but every time someone starts a new game, the least active one gets killed off?
Hmmm... I can see benefits to both the explicit and implicit approaches; the former is easier to code, but might be a bit onerous on (particularly) game creators. Furthermore, I've noted an increasing tendancy to be over-prescriptive in the game brief, and I think further prescription about how quickly moves are to be made might actually be counterproductive and cause all movement to cease completely. For this reason I think I prefer the implicit approach. As I mentioned before, I want to mine the data of all games played so far to see if I can devise some kind of estimate of a games "flagging" point, in which case it can be put on an endangered list and expire if no further moves are made. One problem with always having a slot open is that, as experience at the Lockisseum showed, you get passers-by just starting things for the hell of it.
[rab] Passers-by just starting things for the hell of it... is that necessarily a bad thing? Some of the most memorable games have started like that ("wigwam" on Orange springs to mind, but there are others). I'm starting to think we'd be better off it all games were treated as fast burners and we encouraged a much faster turnaround for games, to keep people interested and stop us all (me included) getting too caught up in only one or two games and ignoring all the rest. I've heard people say that years ago, the MC servers did have games which were much shorter, only lasting a day or so.
No time
Killing a game is easy creating a game that people want to play is more difficult, something different does not go down well, so players do not feel confident in filling a vacant slot. My worry over a timed game is once it has been timed out it will reappear as ...the Return Again of... which happened only recently. I would like to see more people prepared to start games and not stand on the side lines saying "what shall we do now, what shall we do now". With a regular turnover there will be flops and hits. The reason games hang around is the reluctance to replace them. I would not want to see time limits just more bravery with the sythe. Afterall what is the turnover of games on MCOiS where there are 18 active games.
[Darren] It's not a bad thing if it occurs only once in a while, but on the Lockisseum nuisance games were started on an almost daily basis until Dunx brought in the login system. I neither want the maintenance burden of cleaning up, nor to enforce logins for the starting of new games.

[Inkspot] Well, that would be all well and good if people actually killed games, but they don't so it seems that some form of encouragement is needed.

Kill! Kill! Kill!
There's a lot of it about!
But, but
Please don't kill the Shakespeare game. Yet, I mean, I'm sure it will need to go to its sweet, sweet rest eventually.
Quickfire or slow burner?
[Irouleguy] You don't try to make people predict the future; you have x quickfire slots and y slow burner slots. If a quickfire game ends you can only replace it with another quickfire game; if a slow burner ends, it can only be replaced with another slow burner. If one slot of each type chances to be available at the same time, then you get a choice. After all, an /unsuccessful/ slow burner will still face the chop relatively quickly; it's only the successful slow burners that will hang around.
Next up: the Dream Game...?
Dream Game?
What's a Dream Game then?

BTW I too have a game suggestion: Hide and Seek. This idea was inspired by listening to an old ISIHAC episode where the teams gave it ago. Seemed to work all right.

Nah, I was tongue-in-cheek suggesting the "I Woke Up..." game to be next for the axe! How would your Hide and Seek game go? Or would we work it out as it went along?
Incident room
Incidentally, factoids != lies; there needs to be an air of plausibility about them.
Not aimed at anyone in particular, btw, just covering my own back if someone claims it's a "Return of..." type game that I've been so vocal about in the past...
Simons] I see what you mean, though there also should be a way of converting a quick-fire if it gets really popular.

rab] I'm with Darren on drive-bys - if they're really naff they can be killed off just as quickly.
Game idea pitch
"Each move must consist of precisely eight words" - as it says on the tin. What happens in the game may be debated in the game: perhaps it'll be a conversation, perhaps a word-limited reprise of various games we play, or whatever.
Brain cell
[Iroul, Darren] Right, so if we have a slot permanently open which kills of the "least active" game, we can look forward to random passers-by, the generally click-happy and possibly not even real people starting carp like this and this on a daily basis, displacing things that you might actually want to play (actually, the latter example reveals a curious bug that I should look into, so it's not all bad news...). In order to deal with this I would need to write some additional code that would allow these effects to be reversed, ideally as though they had never happened. My time is quite precious these days, and I really don't think this is worth that investment. Sorry.
[Tuj] Sounds good. Who's going to start it?
rab] I enjoyed the second one... Point taken, though.
Hmmm, they looked different and more annoying from home. yes, the second one looks ok from here - very confused.
[Raak] More to the point, something would have to give way first.
There's about 3 million free slots at Orange.
pure class ...
.... the recent entries in Shakespeare.
[rab] But MC5 is home!
Friday....
There are 101 things to do, deadlines to meeet,check emails but I'd rather check the number of paper clips in my desk holder. Even wading through the mass of paperwork in tray for a couple hours seems appealing. Just so restless, put it down to being only days away from Goodwood and the Bugatti Veyron, another week less to being out sourced yet more bland statements from the employer this morning. Soon be lunchtime.
Monday ... oh, and Tuesday
I've actually got my main bit of work nicely rounded off, and am just picking at the edges of what's left while I wait for a major inventory investigation to start. 'Hurry up and wait' certainly isn't just a miltary weakness . . .
We have internal auditors who pop out of the woodwork every now and then. They tend to see everything in terms of black and white proceedures. To move things along in local government sometimes things become a bit fuzzy round the edges ;)

A big wave to all freinds in the colonies with their 4 July celebrations.

Hey Ho!
I'm still here!!! Hectic, new job....lacking sleep with Alex (who is now a big 9 weeks old), and not having a PC at work, or much time at home. Hence my infrequent "hereness". I hope you're all well.
Also still here
I'm getting a bit more connectivity and time. The netnanny at the new client allows MCiOS and here but not Orange. It also objects to some of the adverts carried by both Multimap & Streetmap, so I can get the map surrounded by bits of red threat screen. I feel like using the sites a lot in the hope of getting a call.
Rambling, and not even dressed for it
I just got a spam with the poetic subject heading: "Your money, pale-souled". It fired thoughts through my head, the image of money as a hollow souled entity... How do such poets reconcile their art with such a degrading way to earn a living? Does it give a spam composer a buzz just to know their words are read? Hmmm
Happy Birthday, pen!
[everyone else] There's a very large cake in the chatroom in MCIOS so please help yourselves ...
Wah
I think I killed Shakespeare.
Has Hide & Seek run its course now?
Dreams too?
And Factoids? Perhaps time for a clearout?
Cheddars too?
[Tuj] Why Cheddars? It seems quite active.
[Darren] It's just been fairly low-quality grammatically, bothers me *wink* Anyway, aren't we encouraged to do some purging rather than talking about it?
[Tuj] Well, I don't mind terminating games I've created myself, but I do like to ask first in the case of other people's games, especially where I haven't made many contributions! I've closed Hide and Seek. In the case of Dreams and Factoids, I don't really feel qualified to shut them down myself.
Shall I do the honours for Factoids?
I'm sure you would do so self-referentially, so I look forward to it.
confessional
[rab] I dreamt about you last night. Pen was also in the dream. I think we were in a sort-of Rugby Pilg scenario, only the hotel's layout was rather similar to the house in the current Big Brother. Weird. And a little disturbing.
More free game slots
Hmm... but what?
Erk
[Chalky] Hmmm... I have a vague feeling you were in my dreams too. Telepathy in action no doubt.

I wrote a Very Large Cheque today. It still makes me sweat thinking about it. Should be moving in next Friday, the existence of some building warrants permitting. Saw the deeds yesterday too; one of the clauses I am unable to parse, another one witters on about a "free ish". Hopefully the solicitor will explain to us what this actually means.

[rab] Good luck. Get used to writing big cheques... I'll be writing one next week, and I read through the deeds to the new bungalow this morning - fascinating set of records. Nice to know they've searched me for any record of bankruptcy and found nothing ... yet! :o)
I like the thought of being in someone else's dreams, it means I manage to get out a bit. I had a very weird one last night - dreamed I met a man who liked me (I mean really liked me, but I have no idea who he was) and we were riding polo ponies in South Africa.
Hey, MC dudes
I don't know why, but there is something ineffably funny about adding "dude" to a serious quotation. "If I should die, think only this of me, dudes, there is some corner....." etc. Is it worth a short game?
[Kim] Isn't that game already exhausted by the describing of it, dude?
[Raak] Wot, like the Pants game, you mean?
[Kim] I'm not so sure it's all that funny, anyway. It was kind of exhausted by Bill and Ted.
Dudes, Romans and Countrymen
Maybe it's me, but I don't think it's especially amusing.
Might work; after all: There is nothing like a dude
[INJ] I think yours works because of the gender-bending it implies about the rest of the song. I'm gonna wash that dude right outta my hair, not so good. (However, I'm gonna wash that man right outta my dude sounds a little better.)
Doesn't like crap games with barons or earls
Won't go to Harlem in ermine and pearls
Won't dish the dirt with the rest of the girls
That's why the lady is a dude
Dudes
Yeah, why not give it a shot? Even if it only makes for a short game. Incidentally, I have a Flash animation somewhere called Star Dudes, which is an accurate reenactment of the first Star Wars film, with 'Dude!' as the only dialogue, yet faithful to the original in every detail. And only about 3 minutes long in its entirety. Hopefully Googling should find it somewhere Out There, if anyone's interested.
begone bane of Beelzebub
Shakespeare has shuffled off to create a new game slot
Today's the big day! We hope... there's talk of retaining some money from the seller on account of missing paperwork, but we hope that won't screw things up too much. These solicitors really like to leave everything to the last minute, it seems.
Good luck with the solicitors and the move.
Well, in the last 24 hours the retention has gone down from 15k to 500quid as the bits of paperwork have mysteriously appeared. Should be getting the keys "in the next hour or so". We'll see about that.
thoughts.....
*hopes rab has got a shiny set of house keys by now*

*thinks Riddle-me-ree is a very satisfying game*
*agrees with both thoughts*
party poker
Any number of roulette party poker sports button joker game http://www.ambersells.com gross value bluff four?
party poker
I didn't follow any of that.
[p p] No, you took a wrong turning. Go back the way you came and follow the signs towards dev/null.
Argh! English!
You take a turn, don't you, not a turning. You'd think I might know those things by now.
Wrong turnings
[Nea] Relax. 'A wrong turning' is a commonly-used idiom.
No, changed my mind
It's not an idiom, it's correct. 'Turning' is perfectly OK as a gerund. 'ing' appears in three places in Engish - as a gerund, as a progressive tense - both of which involve adding 'ing' to a verb, and as a noun-forming modifier for which I cannot find the correct terminology. The latter case involves adding 'ling' to a non-verb to produce a commonly-diminutive noun. Examples include underling, sapling, darling, sidling (which produced the verb sidle as a back formation). It used to be side-ling - i.e. someone who stands at your side as opposed to a subordinate under-ling. But of course given a variety of words ending in 'ing' it isn't always apparent that some were fromed from the 'ling'-route rather than the verbal 'ing'-route. The 'l' is a useful indicator, but not 100% reliable.
Simons Mith
That was very interesting, and no sarcasm is intended although it's hard to prove that without the use of tone of voice or facial expression.
Wide aw-ache
Well, it's gone like clockwork so far - all bar the phone line (again) so I may not be able to post much for a bit. Keys arrived, then a van of stuff (including a sofa) which was brought up the stairs by two burly Mancunians. Then a couple of car loads of stuff, followed by a bed, which was brought up the stairs by a burly Edinburgher and further assembled by him. Which was just as well, cos it would have taken us about five hours and we'd have done a really rubbish job of it too. Boxes of stuff still arriving in dribs and drabs, and we're slowly finding places to put all their contents. Nothing's yet come off in our hand or fallen off the wall or ceiling. The heating and shower works, the loo flushes... so pretty smooth so far I would say. I have, however, discovered muscles I never knew I had. Living on the top floor of a tenement block must be good for you, surely.

Oh, and we can't find the stopcock...

hot flushes...
[rab] Good luck an' all in your new home. The loo *might* flush, but just check it. My mother discovered the loo in her new bungalow flushes with water from the hot water system. (Have I mentioned this before?)
(pen) Doesn't this tend to vapourise the ordures, the very thing one tries to avoid?
[Rosie] Quite. Bob the plumber is coming round to fix it.
Game Idea
We don't seem to have any team games on the go at the moment. Anyone up for a - let's say a three way split, he says, trying to second-guess the likely number of players. Puce - Green - Chartreuse are I believe the traditional colours for such a split.
I read the other day that "miniature" (and the "mini-" prefix) comes from "minium", Latin for red. This refers to the small red lettering on a miniature portrait or similar. I'm going to look this up now, just to check. Incidentally, that doesn't pardon 6 quiz teams of staff from our local primary school being unable to spell "minuscule", despite the fact that it was on my son's spelling list 2 years ago (aged 8). Not one team got "manoeuvre" right, either.
mini-
OK, I've looked it up, and: Yes, miniature does derive from miniare (to colour red), from minium (red lead). Mini- is listed, however, as deriving from miniature and minimum, from minimus (least).
I think I need to do more research to ease my troubled mind.
Dysorthography
WHAT? None of them could spell 'minuscule' or 'manoeuvre'? There a load of idiot's.
Have we ever played 'Shipping Crescent, To The Ends of The Earth', with a winning move, Dogger? Faster play during good visibility, obviously, and headwinds take the LV equivalent down a notch. And watch out for those South East Iceland loops. Shipping areas here.
Idiots
[Rosie] I think you mean 'lode'.
Spelling
[Rosie] Indeed, not one team got those words correct. They did marginally better with "accommodation", "Massachusetts" and "knowledgeable". However, I think only 1 team got "diarrhoea" right. I've done much harder spelling rounds in the past; admittedly that was for quiz addicts, and once was deliberately written to prevent a certain team winning, because I knew they would play their joker on a spelling round. I put in words like "eschscholtzia", "waqf" etc. just to screw them up :-)
(SM) I do. Your right.
[Rosie] Write, shurely?
(Chalky) Surely, surely?
Phil's diarrhoea
A mnemonic a teacher at school taught us several years ago:
Dashing In A Rush, Running Hard, Or Early Accident.
You'll never forget how to spell diarrhoea again!
Skwits
'Diarrhoea': S-K-W-I-T-S That's my mum's mneonic, bless her.
Flowthrough
My own Mum's prim version was "Air raid backwards". The opposite was "knobs". It was all "po". (SM) Yes, but what do S-K-W-I-T-S stand for? The SHITS, by the way, is a section of the band of the Irish Guards who call themselves the Society of Harmonious Irish Tunesmiths. This is true.
[Simons] I always thought it was "squits." That's how they spell it in Theme Hospital, too, so it must be right.
[Darren] That's what I thought too. But my mum does tend to take the path less travelled by, when it comes to spelling.
I defnatley have "squits" sometimes have "the trots" but mostly have diarrhoea
[Lib] You really need to see a doctor as soon as possible.
No mention yet of Montezuma's Revenge, The Bombay Trots or Delhi Belly?
*waves from Edinburgh airport*
Wow! rab's new flat is Edinburgh airport!
Waves from Edinburgh
[Darren] No, it's been raining as heavily up there as down south. Never mind a raincoat, yesterday afternoon I wished I'd brought a bucket and spade to work.
Waves from St Petersburg
I'm getting bored of saying this now. I have more free time than I know what to do with, but instead of doing something useful with it, like learn Russian, I'm going to play MC until I vomit. Hoorah!
*points at Shipping Forecast*
OOOOPS. Sorry.
I can say 'Here is my passport' in russian.
... and 'How are your parents' in portuguese.
I'd do well if I was dropped in the middle of Europe wouldn't I?
Eight Words game
Following on from the Eight Words Game, did anyone watch the '50 Greatest Comedy Sketches' programme a few days ago, and did it seem to anyone else that the funniest sketches were all 30 or 40 years old (Two Ronnies, Morecambe and Wise, Monty Python etc.)? I don't know who the public were that voted, but they didn't ask ME.
[Knobbly] Are you saying that the older sketches didn't deserve their place there, or not?
myself
Not at all - I'm saying that the older sketches were the funniest ones in it and that I don't think much of Little Britain, which won.
Despite not having seen the comedy sketches show in question, I'd like to back up Knobbly with my concordance of opinion.
Cancel Mansell
What about a game of rhyming or alliterative instructions for disposing of annoying celebrities and public figures?
I'd say by all means. I was also thinking of Cress but couldn't get the game started.
Team Game?
How about a two or three way team game? Puce v Chartreuse or Puce v Green v Chartreuse? I wouldn't advocate more than three teams - we don't really have enough players.
[pen] I was about to ask "How many of those do you think there'll be?" before scanning down see the game made and very well underway.
[SM] Sounds good - it seems like Crescent games aren't taking off at present and perhaps that would make it more interesting.
[nights] Did the Proposal Vetting Panel give you grief?
[rab] They did indeed. Damn bureaucracy. Seriously though, any reason why it didn't go through?
The Panel tends to get a bit shirty if it thinks you're starting a reheat of something old and tired. Placing old wine into new bottles sometimes helps.
Diarisation
I just received an email beginning "Do please diary this year's poster evening" and thought of, hmmm, almost everybody here.
Rab
(Not quite understanding...) Is it something to do with turning nouns into verbs? Or 'verbing' you might say.
who was it who said 'verbing weirds nouns'?
verbing
Are you willing to let me know who sent the email? I'd so love to reply :-)
[pen] It was Calvin (of Calvin & Hobbes)
[pen, Phil] Indeed, "verbing weirds language" - but a six-year-old or anyone else being silly should be allowed to. Serious usage of something like diary as a verb is definitely something we'll all get flighty about. We should be touched rab thought of us though.
Diarisation
(rab) Bin it.
[Rosie] We were waiting for you. Well said.
Meanwhile, what shall we do with that spare game slot?
[Tuj] Not all of us. :-)
*seconds what CdM said :-)*
mcios
I can't get to mcios this morning. Anyone else having any trouble? (More generally, the internets seem to be very slow here in France, but I can reach most sites.)
(just diaried something, and is proud of it so ner)
[CdM] MCiOS seems to be OK from here, as, indeed, does the net in general.
[CdM] Buy new internets.
Just noticed something about Calvin's quotation
In "verbing weirds language", it's not a noun that has been verbed (as a noun, "weird" means "fate"), but an adjective. Off the top of my head, I can't think of another example of this formation - but I'm sure I'll now be inundated with verbed adjectives that are unbelievably obvious.
I wonder if those arrested for attempting to bomb Lonodn-US flights this morning waited deliberately until Tony Blair was on holiday and John Prescott was in charge?
[pen] I doubt if one blithering idiot is more likely to be of use to the nation than another in an emergency. Thanks for bringing the news to my attention though - I didn't know anything about it till now.
How many boots could a black coot black if a black coot could black boots?
[Phil] One example in standard English occurs to me: to black (a pair of boots, or a place of work).
Similarly, "to right something" and perhaps also (less clear) "to wrong someone"?
[Raak/CdM] However, "black" is also a noun. So is "wrong" and "right." Can an example be found which verbs an adjective which is not also a noun?
I was going to point out that "to up prices" involves verbing a preposition, but "up" can yet again be used as a noun.
Of course, in programming you can talk about "anding" and "oring" two numbers, but that falls more into jargon than standard English.
Loose?
Isn't that just a contraction of 'let loose', in which case 'let' is the verb?
Turpentine can be used to thin oil paint.
The map is ornated with three cartouches.
When the ossibuchi have browned on one side, turn them to brown the other.
(Ok, "brown" can be a noun, but I just like saying "ossibuchi".)
Verbing
[challenge] I actually think instances of verbed nouns-not-usable-as-adjectives are even rarer than instances of verbed adjectives-not-usable-as-nouns. However, I did find an example of a verbing of a non-adjectival noun: You can tree a cat. BTW Calvin's only 12 years younger than I am. He'd be 26 sometime this year. Yeesh!
I like saying "Raak".
Ornate ?
[Raak] I've nevr come across "ornate" used as a verb, and it hurts just to look at your sentence. I like the "thin" example, though.
Tree a cat !
[SM] I live and learn - I'd never seen "tree" as a verb before, other than in the sense that "the copse was heavily treed", but have found now found it in the dictionary. I may have to try and get this sense into normal conversation tomorrow
Treed
(Phil) I hope it doesn't replace "woooded". I agree "ornate" as a verb is monstrous when "ornament" already exists as a verb. (SM) How do you tree a cat? Stick a twig up its bum? You'll be lucky. I can see how you can de-cat a tree, though, even if it might need the Fire Brigade.
[Phil] I never saw it before, until I googled it in a spirit of misunderestimation. The OED has it as an obsolete verb, which I suppose is why an antiquarian map dealer might use it to ornate his prose. But as Caxton writes, "Somtyme ornatynge of wordes maketh the proposycion to be withdrawen fro the trouthe."
It's usually mixed up in some way to even both sides out.
Things have quieted down.
Dual the A11!
So is it in fact the case that "ornament" as a verb was monstrous because "ornate" already existed as a verb?
Is the interesting thing about these words simply that they don't appear to have been verbed in the 'normal' way - i.e. by an apparent change in the spelling? After all, it presumably doesn't count in the noun-to-verb category to include the verb "to shelve" since it isn't "to shelf", whereas "to tree" involves no spelling change (although I think some linguists would argue there is a morphological change by virtue of the change of use). In these non-spelling-change cases, it's presumably for some other reason that they appear the same when verbed... You can verb "thick" by spelling it "thicken", whereas "thin" doesn't lend itself to being spelt "thinnen".
(That said, I don't think it would break any intuitive rules of morphology to have "righten" and "wrongen").
[Non-adjective verbings] Saki has an instance of the verb "to sky", meaning the practice of putting the paintings of lesser artists higher up on the gallery wall, above better-regarded work.
Nounish verbings: beach, ship, dog, horse, house, caravan, cup, motor, earwig. "Some to think of it," he umbrella'd, "there aren't many words you can't slip in as a substitute for 'said'."
S C
horse?
[pen] Ever horsed around?
[horsing] I know I have.
said
(Raak) Or omit it entirely, as in "So I'm like f*** off" and all that edifying stuff.
[Raak] Horse is a strange one... I dog you, you dog her, we dogged them, but do you ever say 'I horse, you horse'? It's usually linked to 'around'. I have no idea what this does to the classification of the nounage/verbage discussion. I'm almost out of my depth!
'Horsing'
Maybe it's like goosing, but on a larger scale. Oo-er.
Horsing
'Horsing' & 'Horsed' have been in common usage in the B&D world for years. So I'm told.
[TMITGS] Meaning what, exactly?
The only other usage than "horsing around" I can find on a (SafeSearch) Google, is the expression "to horse a gentlewoman", which I assume is an historical expression meaning the general assistance of a lady in enabling her to ride out. Then again, maybe I'm being naïve and it has a more Catherine the Great connotation.
Horsing around
I believe it involves a carpenter's sawhorse (suitably reinforced and stabilised), a willing 'victim', a quantity of rope and a good imagination. It might be a good idea to keep a chiropracter on the speed dialer too IMHO.
Earlier today something similar to Projoy's comment on "thicken" occurred to me, although I noted that "enlarge" seems to apply the suffix as a prefix. There are words such as "enliven" which seem to follow the same pattern, except "liven" isn't an adjective (at least now). Anyone know a reason why "enlarge" behaves like that?
[Darren] No idea, but it did make me think of the verb from "bold" is "to embolden", which has both suffix and prefix (though not necessarily in that order).
(Darren) "Enlarge" is from the French enlarger and may just be a copy, so to speak. A more regular formation, reading between the lines of my 1964 COD, would be "largen", (cf thicken) the prefix en- + adjective being rare. En- + noun or verb is common though and explains "enliven" either as "to give life to" or to (intensively) liven.
[Rosie] ...which has both prefix and suffix. As does embolden. But you can't ensticken the affixes on ad lib.
You people scare me a bit sometimes. I love you all, but you scare me mildly.
I am finding what I understand of this interesting, and I do enjoy a bit of linguistics, but perhaps I shouldn't have encouraged it a few pages ago. Carry on though.
(Raak) With "embolden" and "enliven" it would seem that in the past someone has done just that. I don't think the rules are particularly well-defined. (nights) Yep, we're a bunch of swivel-eyed fundamentalists. In the beginning was the Word. AND THE WORD SHALL BE SPELT PROPERLY. :-)
P - R - O - P - E - R - L - Y
Is there an opposite for "enlarge" which has the same pattern? There doesn't seem to be an "ensmall" or "enlittle" (although there is "belittle" but then where's the "belarge"?) - the closest in meaning is probably "shrink," which seems to have no connection with any words meaning "small" whatsoever.
Darren] Well, there's the Simpsons' 'debigulator' machine, which rather implies that there's a verb 'to debigulate'

More seriously, since the 'en-' prefix mostly seems to mean 'more of', or 'increase' you wouldn't really expect a word for making smaller to be made up in that way. There is 'decrease', which is a Latinate construction of 'de-' and crescere, to grow.
I dog you etc...
[penelope] which sense of "dogging" are you talking about?
he, she or it dogs
[Phil] Perhaps it's best we don't ask.
[Phil] In the 'following someone annoyingly' sense. Why, what other senses are there? ;o)
[Irouléguy] Doesn't the prefix 'en-' mean something closer to 'to make'? (Enlarge - to make sth large).
Actually, the example that made me think that was ennoble - to make noble.
What I just said
I have on my lap a big Chambers Dictionary:

en- prefix
1) in words derived from Latin through French (a)used to form verbs with the sense of in, into, upon; (b) used to form verbs with the sense cause to be; (c) used intensively or almost meaninglessly;
(2) in words derived from Greek used to form verbs with the sense of in.

I can't think of any for sense (c)...
(Knobbly) I think enliven could fall into your category (c). Liven would do on its own ( = to make lively).
The Simpsons also introduced "enbiggen", iirc.
[CdM] Wasn't that EMbiggen? As in, "A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man" or something to that effect?
dogging
[penelope] "To hold or fasten with a mechanical device", apparently. >-]
It's so nice to see grammaticalisation and form-function reanalysis in progress. Errr... I think.

House news - we now have a phone, the main delay caused by the engineer not knowing where a big pipe of wires came out. Broadband apparently appeared first thing this morning, but since I had to come into work to read my email I didn't know about it then. (Actually, given that we've just had a system "upgrade" here, it might have been better to have stayed at home in any case). First major disaster was the downstairs neighbour complaining of water coming through our ceiling. We had a plumber/odd-job-man come out Saturday morning and spend three hours under the bath fixing the makeshift repair that the previous owner must have done about, oh, three or four days before moving out. Nice welcome present for us, oh yes. Anyway, should be fixed now; no all we need is for someone to plumb the gap that subsequently appeared in my bank account.

+w
Knobbly] I must admit i didn't look it up - I just went off the sense of most of the 'en-' words I could think of. I still can't think of an example for making smaller, though.
Another contender for your sense c) is 'tangle' and 'entangle', though according to Webster-Merriam Online 'tangle' is an Anglo-Saxon shortening of an old French verb 'entangler'.

*waves red rag* Can I argue for 'to Google' as one useful example of verbification? I can't think of an alternative that isn't a clunky noun-phrase - to look up on Google, to research on Google, to scope (out) on Google, etc.
I think "to Google" as a verb for "to search on Google" is OK, but only informally. I use it myself. However, it has become synonymous with "to search on the Internet, regardless of search engine used" which plays into the hands of those evil corporate types.
It has, of course, an friend in "to hoover."
Right on cue, Slashdot reports that "Google Sends Legal Threats to Media Organizations" over the use of its name as a verb for internet searces. See here.
...and in case you didn't scroll all the way down, here for some wonderful derivations from the Japanese verb 'guguru'.

That story suggests that 'to Google' becoming a generic verb doesn't necessarily benefit them, though, because they lose their exclusivity.
To be more specific, potentially they could lose their trademark (at least in the US) if it becomes an ordinary word ("google" isn't an English word yet, although "googol" is), as once a word has become a generic term, it becomes impossible to enforce trademark rights on it.
to hoover
Ditto for "to Dyson", which used to be used in my household.
Darren] The OED listed it as a verb in June - see here - which surely counts as a word becoming 'officially' English.

Are there other brand-name verbs? I can only think of 'to Xerox' (American for photocopying), which I don't think is current any more.
[Irouléguy] It would only become a generic if "to google" meant "to search on the internet on any search engine." As long as it's defined to mean "to use Google" it shouldn't present them with any problems. There are plenty of brand names which have become generic nouns, applied regardless of brand (escalator, tannoy, biro, etc.) but not many verbs ("to rollerblade" is another, though).
[Darren] "Escalate" (he tannoyed, then biroed it in on his list of brandname verbs).
I don't think "escalate" quite counts as it predated "escalator." The thing which makes "escalator" a generic is the way it's use for any moving staircase, with no regard for whether it's an Otis "Escalator" model. If, however, you say, "I'm just going to escalate to the third floor, darling," then yes, "escalate" qualifies as a generic verb. Personally I've never heard it used that way.
"Escalate" no longer reads as a word to me, as a result of the previous paragraph. I just see a bunch of meaningless letters. It's annoying when that happens.
Talking of meaningless letters, I've developed this annoying habit of leaving letters out of my posts: "it's use for" indeed.
(Darren) Stare at any word long enough and it begins to look mis-spelt or foreign. Either way you think you're going slightly barmy. I can assure you you're not unless I am as well.
Excuse me for a second...
Dear I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue Mailing List Member,
We are now in a position to reveal the dates of the Autumn series of I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue.
TICKETS WILL GO ON SALE FROM 10AM ON THE MORNING OF WEDNESDAY 16TH AUGUST.
Tickets to these recordings sell extremely quickly, so you are strongly advised to book early.
The first recording will take place on the evening of Sunday 22nd October 2006 at the Southport Theatre (capacity 1631). Tickets are priced at £10.50, £8.50 and £6.50, with a £2.25 transaction charge. There would normally be a £1.50 per ticket service charge as well, but we have absorbed this for you. You can either book tickets online at www.LiveNation.co.uk/southport , via the telephone by calling Ticketmaster on 0870 6077560, or in person at the theatre between the hours of 10am and 6pm, Monday to Saturday.
The second recording will take place on the evening of Sunday 12th November at the Victoria Palace Theatre (capacity 1525). This is the theatre showing the musical Billy Elliot. Tickets are priced at £11.50, £9.50 and £7.50, with a £2.50 transaction charge. We have absorbed a 6% per ticket service charge. You can book tickets online by calling 0207 834 1317 which will ring at the box office direct and if not answered (either due to being busy, ringing too many times or outside the hours of 10am to 8.30pm Monday to Saturday) it will trip through to Ticketmaster.
The third recording will take place on Sunday 26th November at the Sunderland Empire (capacity 1875). Tickets are priced at £10.50, £8.50 and £6.50, with a £2.25 transaction charge. There would normally be a £1.50 per ticket service charge as well, but we have absorbed this for you. You can either book tickets online at www.LiveNation.co.uk/Sunderland or via the telephone by calling the theatre's box office on 0870 602 1130 (phone trips to Ticketmaster either due to being busy, ringing too many times or outside of hours), or in person at the theatre box office between the hours of 10am and 7.45pm (6pm when there's not a show on), Monday - Saturday.
Doors open to each recording at 7pm, and the recordings will begin at 7.30pm. They are scheduled to finish between 10.15-10.30pm and include a twenty minute interval.
We are very concerned that tickets to these shows (which are already subsidised) are being touted for money, so in an attempt to remedy this, SALE OF TICKETS WILL BE LIMITED TO NO MORE THAN FOUR PER APPLICANT. Should you find yourself unable to use your tickets, please telephone the relevant theatre's box office. They will keep contact details for the first thirty applicants unable to get tickets, and will re-sell the tickets for you. Under no circumstances should you buy or sell tickets on eBay. If a recording has to be cancelled, anyone who has a ticket that has not be purchased legitimately will not get their money refunded, as Ticketmaster and the theatre box offices can only refund the original cardholder.
OK
So here's a question: how do you find out a ballpark figure for how much one should be expected to pay for replacement windows? There seems to be a pact between fitters to give no indication of costs whatsoever, presumably so you can be royally ripped off when it comes to ordering them.
[rab] Try calling fitters and replacement window companies in a completly different town to escape the geographical fixed-price cartel. And I'm sure some of the national companies (Everest, Staybrite, Penicuik) have websites that might calculate it for you, once you have the approximate measurements. There's a glaziers' regulatory body I think - is it Fensa? Maybe they have a list of reputable ones.
Thanks. No-one seems to offer an on-line quote; I'm not even after anything as scientific as that, just an estimate of how many thousands of pounds it's likely to be so we can budget for it. Very frustrating.
[Darren] According to the online dictionaries I just consulted, "escalate" is a back-formation from "escalator".
Refenestration
[rab] How many windows do you want replacing? I have a ballpark figure of £5K for my flat, which would be 4 windows replacing, including patio doors. But then I am in the London area.
[Projoy] By that token, anyone outside London should be able to have it done for £1.50, then.
[Raal] Nice to see a new face here. You look a bit like Raak, if I may say so. Anyway, that's interesting because the ones I checked showed the reverse!
Eeek...
[Projoy] We have seven windows in total: three of them quite large (about 2m2), two medium sized (1.25m2) and two wee ones (less than 1m2 apiece). We're not in a listed building, or a conservation area, thank goodness, so they can be made out of anything we like, as long as we respect the astragals etc. 5K was the kind of number that was floating around my mind, for some reason, but from what you say it might be a bit more than that.
D-G
I paid 3.5k a few years ago for a ground floor flat; four large windows (3+m2 and one medium (1.25m2) plus a front door and a back door. It's the doors that add a lot to the expense; several hundred pounds a pop. And of course small windows are disproportionately costly for their size. I'd hope your requirements would be cheaper than Projoy's - I bet patio doors incur a double expense, once for being doors, and once for being large windows. I admit, I'd still anticipate a cost of well over 4k.
dee gee
Do you have to do them all in one go? I know there are 'do the front, get the back for free' offers every now and again... but don't panic, that's the main thing.
All for one
I spose not - but all but two of them really need to be done if not by the winter then next summer at the latest, so we may as well have them all done in one go. We'll try not to panic - I'm just not keen on the whole "salesman" thing...
My regular customers include a window salesman, and a window surveyor (goes round after the salesman has done his bit and actually measure the windows etc). Unfortunately, the latter is on holiday this week, but I'll check with the former this evening if I remember. He's an ex-salesman as of last year, so should be honest about it. From conversations with him, I can advise you to beware of all the "pay for the front, get the back free" deals etc, as those sort of companies will be ripping you off anyway. The salesmen are amongst the most highly-trained, aggressive-style of any trade. You do not get a bargain from them, even though you will think you do. Some of the techniques he explained to me were quite scarily akin to military interrogation. I'll let you know what he says either tonight, or tomorrow morning.
There is another way, though. If they are standard sizes, the window units themselves do not cost much (think 10% od what you get charged) and a pair of competent builders/handymen should be able to fit them.
[rab] Everest claim to be the best, but are probably the most expensive. They did six floor-to-ceiling windows and a door for me years back for 4k. How long do you plan staying at the address? You don't want something that will need replacing again in less than 20 years.
Windows
I've spoken to my mate, who used to work for StayBrite. He says there's a huge window-making company in Edinburgh that the likes of Staybrite buy their windows from. He'll try and track down the name tonight. He also reckons that, if there are no complex openings required etc, that you "could" get it done for £2K-ish. His advice is find a reputable window-fitter, not a big national company - you get the same windows, a non sales-driven company, and half the price. More to follow when I get more info.
[Phil] I'll bet you 5p and a melon that it's Penicuik.
Gambling?
[pen] I don't accept bets that I might not win ...i.e. I think you're right.
Celebrity MC
Anyone seen Inkspot lately? He and I (as sigmundfreud) seem to be the only two left on Celebdaq. I'm really hanging on so he doesn't feel in solitary splendour. I suspect he's doing the same...
Alternatively, some of you deserters might re-join.
Celebdaq? Oh, puh-lease, that's so 2003. :)
[Phil] Thanks. Any ideas as to how one knows a fitter is reputable?
Isn't it marked on their bottoms?
[rab] Ask to see jobs they've done in the area, would be my best guess, other than local recommendation.
How's the weather?
>> Celebdaq? Oh, puh-lease, that's so 2003. :) Absolutely. For the last 3 years, I just buy Madonna - she's easy, cheap and she gets column inches.
Game slot
...just realised there's been one sitting blank for a while. Any innovative ideas?
digging the daq
[gil] Still doing pottering with the daq, member of Ultimates (MSN group) for investment tips and DDT also peek at http://www.redtide.co.uk/celebdaq/index.html?s=09000901
Every now again like today Mornington_Crescent appears on the front page, sadly I run more than one account. Still not made Top Trader.
An old standby from my days as a language assistant - "What will you do this weekend?" "Remember, we construct the future tense using the auxiliary 'will' - the clue's in the question!"
le weekend
I'm currently waiting for a friend to make his way out of Town to the boondocks of the tube system, from where we will embark on a voyage of historical discovery. We're going up the M40 to go and look at the paintings in a stately home. I have to choose the CDs for the trip, and he's going to choose the destination. We'll probably argue a bit.
Today I learned something new
I learned why the Knights say "Ni!". Néa must know this already. "Ni" is the Swedish for "you" in the plural, and used to also be the formal singular "you", like the French "vous". However, Swedish added a strange twist to this. If someone was eligible to be addressed as "ni" then, by definition, it was inappropriate to do so. Instead, one referred to them by their title, e.g. "would the professor like another cup of tea?" As the writer concludes, "the world really is coming to a sorry state when people are going about saying "ni" to old ladies."
       I suspected the story of being a wind-up, but I happened to have a copy of "Teach Yourself Swedish" dating from 1969, and it agrees. It also said that the awkwardness of having to address people in the third person, while also avoiding the words "he" and "she" (taboo in this situation), had led to efforts to persuade the Swedish public to use "ni" more widely, with some success. However, the success must have been limited, as I understand that the formal "ni" is now all but extinct.
       It is not know if the Knights who say "Ni!" are a deliberate reference to this quirk of Swedish grammar.
fun and games
This weekend, which is mostly gone now here? Watched a Hindi film, bought some plants and crushed my right index finger in a car door.
"In Soviet Union, Saturday is START of weekend."
Celebdaq
Ha! Despite the fact that I don't follow the trends in e.g. http://www.redtide.co.uk/celebdaq/index.html?s=09000901 I have been making a good living buying Madonna, which seems to be a profitable move.
Finger in car door
Wow! That hurts. My father-in-law shut the car door on my finger just before Beryl and I drove off on honeymoon... No remarks, please. My style was NOT cramped.
Knights, Madonna
*Delurking*
[Raak] But these knights you speak of are no longer the Knights Who Say 'Ni!' and annecdotal evidence would suggest they ceased to be so some time before 1000 AD, before the age of 'Professors'. Therefore, going by the rules of good Swedish, it would be inappropriate to refer them as 'Neow-wom-peng!' or something close to that. This story would appear to be another urban legend. :)
[gil] Your 'Celebdaq' posting had me in stitches when I read it. Then I looked up 'Celebdaq' and twigged I had the wrong end of the stick. Thanks for the laugh anyway.
[Sierra Mike] I prefer to interpret the film as a metaphorically expressed history of Swedish grammar.
Celebdaq
[Sierra Mike]re Madonna... I have to confess the wording was chosen with irony in mind.
Irony / Swedish Grammar
[gil] Ah, well, it worked then.
[Raak] You are undoubtedly right. Where do the dismemberment ad absurdum and cannibalism fit in?
[Sierra] I think it would take an expert in Scandinavian historical linguistics to fathom out the entirety of the Pythons' subtle code.
Pythons and The Swedish Language
[Raak] Now you come to mention it, there was that whole Scandinavian thread running through the opening credits, wasn't there? Jeepers, you may be onto somthing potentially very rewarding in the accademic sense and not to shabby in the next-year's-beach-book arena too if you can pull a "Dan Brown". The Python Codex is certain to be a blockbuster.
new game
It's ages since we had a Film Club or a Song Book...
[pen] And Sound Charades, as well. Something should really just get rushed thru'.
*stands back in anticipation of the rush*
Yep, I knew that
[Raak] That's it, in essentials, though not quite quite. Quoting my handbook in etiquette from 1933:

"Although the use of the address ni is more common today than ten or fifteen years ago, it is not accepted in ordinary social life. [...] it is however permitted to include a ni here and there in conversation, provided that one also includes the title. Thus, it is possible to say "Oh, so the countess was in Visby last summer, how did ni find it?" or "Is the consul going to Paris, weren't ni there last spring?" But you cannot be too young if you are to use ni to older people [etc etc for 30 more pages about use of titles I kid you not]"

It does say that using "ni" to colleagues is fine, though, as well as some other equal-status situations where it was OK. There's a whole chapter about when to stop using titles -- always a mutual process, you stopped using each other's titles and said du (sing. "you") instead of ni. A lot happened in the decades following with an increase in "ni" and decrease of titles, but the big big revolution was in the late 1960s, when the head of a government office declared that he would say "du" to all his employees and expected "du" back. (Well, that's it in a nutshell anyway -- it was more complicated of course.)
Anyway, the funny thing is that after all that, today Swedish uses virtually no titles at all. We have "Mr", Mrs", "Miss" and "Dr" and various old nobility and royal titles, but apart from royalty nobody uses any titles, ever. (Very young schoolkids tend to call their teacher "miss" or "teacher", but once they hit 10 or so it's strictly first names.) So when buying, say, plane tickets from British Airways, a Swede is struck by the necessity to put a title there -- which feels very very foreign.
Neow-wom-peng!
[Néa] Swedish schoolchildren are presumably too well brought up to say "Ni!" to a teacher. Would that our lot were as aware of the social graces.
My butcher calls me "Sir", and I love it. I'd be delighted to go back to using titles and surnames instead of all this pseudo-familiar first name tosh. If someone repeatedly uses my name, I instinctively remind myself not to buy anything, or co-operate for that matter. Still, it's better than being called "mate" by someone I'm trying to conduct some business with.
Surnames
(Phil) My Indian newsagent always greets me with a smile and "Ah, Mr Hughes" when I go in each week to pay for the papers. This is almost too formal even for someone of my age but charming nevertheless. What I really don't like is name-tags where the surname is omitted. It's either false familiarity or management's way of saying you're not very important.
I'm not keen on letters coming from people with gender-neutral names (like Chris) without a title as you then never know how to write back to them.
[rab] "Dear Chris"? Isn't the point that once they've introduced themselves by a particular name it's quite acceptable to address them by it...?
Chris
My nextdoor neighbours are Chris and Sam. Any guesses?
{Projoy] Actually, I was thinking of emails rather than letters where you have mail from "Chris Jones", and at the bottom a standard sig "Chris Jones, Gender Neutrality Officer". To me, it feels utterly wrong beginning a communication with "Dear Chris" when I've never met the person in question.
Mind you, I once had a letter from Scottish Gas, signed by hand as "Scottish Gas"...
[rab] Did you reply "Dear Scottish" or "Dear Mr Gas"?

I agree with rab about feeling uncomfortable replying to mails like that. I generally duck the issue and just start them with "Hi -" and in fact, I don't often use names at all unless there's ambiguity as I've never been comfortable with using people's names for any purpose whatsoever, even if I've known them for years. Dunno why.

[rab] "Dear Sir or Madam, as the case may be:" Although in email I never use any salutation at all.
OMG
[Raak] Why not? [All others] What about you? Do you use salutations in email?
[Néa] Just the custom I'm accustomed to (and therefore the One True Way).
I use 'Good morning [name] or sometimes just 'Good Morning' (or afternoon), or sometimes 'Dear [name] in an email; if it's a round-robin (which is often is) I just start with an attention-grabbing 'Ladies and Gentlemen' which seems to go down fairly well, apart from with one individual who has been making a fool of herself recently and is not much longer for this corporate world, I feel.
[Rosie] A gay couple. With stupid parents. :oP
[Néa, from whom all knowledge springs, from whose navel a lotus springs forth and who encompasses the oceans in three strides] I avoid salutations as unnecessary ornamentation.
[Salutations] For email, even formal email, I find that "Hello," is a perfectly good opening for almost every purpose. So much so that I now find it slightly quaint to receive an email that begins "Dear..." (particularly if the person uses my surname). And it's been many a year since I've seen a "yours faithfully". If forced into a formal signoff, I tend to stick to just "Yours," for fear of writing something I don't in the slightest bit mean, such as "sincerely".
[Dear Mr B-----,] While I am familiar with the feeling whereof you speak re: addressing someone by their first name prior to a formal introduction, which no doubt is deplored in Debrett, I can't say I've experienced a great deal of discomfort in discarding the convention.
Oh no, i fear I'm a fogey (yet again)...
In emails, I use "yours faithfully", "your sincerely", "regards" or "kind regards" depending on the context. I also use "cheers", which I use as a multi-purpose word in spoken coversation anyway. However, at the start of an email, I tend just to use the person's name (surname if we're not acquainted, forename if we are) or "Dear Sir or Madam" if it's to "complaints@????.com" or "service@????.com" (as many of my emails are).
re:
[Phil] Whats the difference between regards and kind regards? I've never really appreciated this subtlety.
Chris and Sam
(pen) Sorry, but it's Christopher and Samantha. 50 yrs ago it would have been Christine and Samuel.
Now I come to look at it, Christine seems such a silly name. It's like the brand name of a sort of mini-Messiah individually wrapped for your comfort and convenience.
"Vicar, do you sell small packs of Christines for the weekend?"
[Projoy] Most names start to look pretty silly if you look at them too closely, like most words.
Salutations
[Néa] I tend to use a first name and a colon. It's my style. For example:

Dear Samantha:

Isn't it about time you got off Humphrey's hand? I should think it was quite uncomfortable.

All the best,

Nights.

I think of an email as being a less formal letter - with an opening, closing and all the rest. Most of my peers think I'm bizarre for this.
hi nites i reckn your a yong fogy rosie
Hello, I must be going
In email I don't use valedictions either, just my name at the end or a .sig. Written letters go "Dear Sir/Yours faithfully" or "Dear [name]/Yours".
emailiquette
Hmm, well showing my old-foginess I start with a "signature" saying who I am, website details etc. (Though this is automatically included) Then I use Dear (name) <comma> Dear Humphrey, Then the text - all properly written out and hopefully correctly spelt and punctuated. And I tail it with Regards, Blob (or whatever soubriquet that person knows me by) ........ What's more, I write SMS texts in much the same way !!!
Formality
(Nights) Actually most of my emails are no different from letters except in the greeting if I'm familiar with the person. This means capitals, punctuation and paragraphs. Well, why not? At my age you simply don't give a toss if people think you're bizarre. It's great.
The thing is, I tend to see emails as more closely related to memos than letters. When I receive an email written like a formal letter, it comes across, frankly, as somewhat illiterate.
[darren] How would you receive a letter through your letterbox? Would you feel impatience that they didn't email you about it?
[Projoy] It's a gut feeling thing. Although, if I sit and think about it, my regards tend to be much kinder if I'm selling than buying.
[pen] I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at there.
[pen] Dunno about Darren, but I would feel exactly that (and frequently do). We've too few trees as it is, without wasting them on pointless letters, cards etc.
paper
(Projoy) You really can't be allowed to get away with that. The proportion of paper in actual letters compared with the total amount of paper (newspapers, junk mail etc) that comes through my letterbox is very small. In any case, we're not short of trees; there are many more than there were 40-50 years ago, everywhere. To be honest, I'm not that keen on trees, they spoil the view and at one time threatened to undermine my house. Rather overrated, I feel.
[Rosie] Who says my annoyance is confined to only legitimate letters? As to "more trees", I don't know if that's true, although I guess you're more likely to know than I am, But don't we need even more trees at the moment to do Carbon Dioxide conversion? This is the general impression I have gained.
Trees
I suspect Rosie is right that there are more trees now than in the 50's. I'm pretty sure, however, that there were many more in the 30's and more still before WW1. Also, the tree-planting boom of the 50's 60's & 70's was mostly conifer plantations. Planting more trees as mixed woodland must be a good thing both aesthetically and as carbon sinks.
IIRC, commercial forestry supplies most of the pulp for paper - and that's a planting-and-harvesting operation of fast-growing monoculture conifers; it doesn't use wood from mixed and deciduous woodland.
I'm still not sure what forest conservation and my opinion of email writing style have to do with each other.
Tree abundance
Which would explain the demise of resin/wood particle composite board and the resurgence of quality natural wood at the woodyards. Oh, hang on......
That's a matter of furniturenfashion and the health hazards of the resin fumes, innit?
[Rosie] Well I look forward to being 23 then. And I write text messages just the same way - the joy of predictive text. And a new phone!

In other news, I handed in my dissertation today!
[nights] Congratulations! Well done! I hate you. No, really, well done.
Trees
(Projoy) It's true that trees fix carbon rather than letting it float free as CO2 but the number needed to make any difference is impractically large particularly considering the rate the Amazon jungle and other areas are being chopped down. Trees are nice but have become sacred, which is just silly. They undermine buildings, obscure the sky and the view, drop leaves on the railway line and are even allowed to obscure signals. The biodiversity of tree-free railway cuttings was incredible. Down with trees! BTW I don't quite understand your aversion to printed paper. I get cards all the time from my nieces in addition to all the emails, which is nice, and far better than when they were young teenagers and sent me electronic Christmas cards. Sod that.
[Rosie] Well, I suppose it's a personal preference, but I just find dealing with paper irritating these days. It becomes clutter very quickly. You can't miniaturise it and file it conveniently in a sensible folder system on a HDD. Cards and the like seldom express sentiments profound enough to be worth keeping, and for the most part are ritualistic and purposeless. Almost anything that could be said in a conventional letter could be said in an email, which is far more keepable these days.
call me old-fashioned
[PJ, Rosie] Being a keen calligrapher - I mostly design and write greetings cards to close friends and family. They seem to appreciate the personal, snail-mail touch because it's evidence that one has made the effort. Far more 'keepable' I'd say.
I loathe "greetings cards", and I've just deleted my justification of that statement because I don't want to feel yet again that I'm the only one singing in tune :-)
[Phil] I'm only mentioning how much I despise commercial greetings cards so you know you're not alone. Under normal circumstances I wouldn't even have botherd to mention it. Profit margins of 60%+?? The sleazy slimeballs.
Me2, as mentioned (and justified) above.
[SM & PJ] I have an equal, but differently justified, loathing for hand-made ones too.
I love cards. I love writing letters. I love recieving post of any form. I send lots of postcards when I go on holiday. I particuarly like hand made cards. I do get a bit pissed off when I get a Christmas card from someone I rarely keep in touch with just signed with their name, as I'd like a little newsbite. I try to lead by example and put a little line or two in each card, something personal to who its addressed to. I also mostly try to make my own Christmas cards, although I was defeated on that one last year (I sent over 85, and recieved a similar number). So, why do I like them. I accept that I do mostly just throw them away (or try to recycle) and it is a fair economic cost, but I like to keep in touch with as many people as I can and I think its a good way to show that you're thinking of someone. Hurrah for cards. That's what I say!
[Lib] If I want to know what someone whom I am otherwise too feckless to stay properly in contact with is up to, I'll usually google them or take a look at their blog or something. If I instead sent a card for the sheer sake of "staying in touch" what pleasure would it afford them to know that I thought of them... but didn't think enough of them to do more than send a card? You might argue that I miss the point, and I suppose I probably do. Obviously, not attacking anyone else's way of staying in touch, but that's how it's always seemed to me.
Apologies if I come across as a crabby bastard, but, well, I am one. :)
[PJ] You didn't seem any more crabby that I am (revising never brings the nice side of me out)... I like to know that someone out there is thinking of me. That's probably something to do with the kind of high-maintainence-centre-of-attention person I am. Getting a card is something concrete that I can see that they've thought of me. Looking at my blog doesn't mean anything as I don't track all the hits. But, each to his own, hey? And I'll remember not to send you any cards a ProjoyTowers.
crabby old so-and-so
[Phil/PJ] Hmm - surely you have aunts, uncles, grandparents [even parents] that may not be quite as netsavvy as you? [or even own a PC]. How do you all stay in touch or send birthday/christmas-type greetings to them? Telephone?
[Chalky] Why stay in touch? Why send greetings? Unless you want to know them as friends, doing either of those two things seems completely pointless - maybe even slightly hypocritical - to me.
[Chalky] I didn't say that I prefer to use the net. I just don't really "stay in touch". I have one uncle, one aunt, one cousin, no grandparents. I do speak to my brothers and parents fairly frequently on the phone. I do send birthday and christmas cards to all family members (including in-laws and 2 nieces) - I also loathe buses, but use them when necessary.
On the other hand, we all use email too for quick messages, e.g. my sister-in-law invited us to her 50th birdthay party by email, and I was able to decline within 30 minutes - job done, no waiting; no having to find a "sorry we can't come" card, write it, find her address, buy a stamp, post it (all of which would take me a day or two).
[Projoy, Phil] Blimey, I'm now wary of having either of you two as friends... if I left it too long, the friendship lapses and you'd discontinue membership! I've got friends all over the place that I don't see for a couple of years at a time, but I'm extremely pleased that I *can* count them as friends, and still send xmas cards. I really can't see it the way you do.
Stands in the girls corner
Am I sensing a gender divide here?
[Lib] No, I like cards.
speaking literally
[Phil] I see. You seem to use different methods for different folks. Me too. I just prefer to make a greetings card than to buy one [for the reasons already stated by PJ and SM.

[PJ] Why stay in touch? The ones I stay in touch with are the ones I LIKE and respect.
Well, I know it means more to me when I send a card or letter than an email (partly because of the extra effort). So it means more to me to receive one as well. Also probably more than half the people I communicate with regularly are not regular e-mail users, even if they have an address. I just think it's for different purposes. Quick notes, information-based, SMS or email; communication - letters or cards.
[Proj] You don't think staying in touch with your aged relatives who are not on the Internets is worthwile in itself? Me, I like sending post cards, but not too many or too often. I defaulted out of Postcrossing recently.
In other news, I suck at lecturing. Really and truly.
[Néa] *thinks for a moment*. Mm. Not really - for them or me. [pen] I have friends whom I sometimes don't see for a couple of years, or more. It sounds like in your case it's necessary to send a card or something in order to maintain the friendship subscription (whether used or not). In my case I'm very happy for someone I like to show up again after a couple of years of not calling or writing. I don't require them to ping me in the interval, because it would be a waste of both of our time (at least until they or I are ready to re-engage - and also a waste if one of us is no longer really interested).
[Néa] PS. I bet you don't suck at it.
[Néa] I agree, I bet you don't suck.
[penelope] I wonder, do I really have friends, per se, or perhaps I just have pals? I think that could be an interesting bit of self-analysis, perhaps anyone who counts me as a "friend" could contribute. Oh I dunno, I'm just me, and I'm not great at communicating, so I don't bother :-)
for flerdle's eyes only
Here's something flerdle told me:
Hidden textonly kidding!
Phil:
Hidden text :-)
*comes back from Leamington Spa, joins the "I bet Néa doesn't suck brigade, and says
Hidden text"What?"
to flerdle and Phil*
That's the "I bet Néa doesn't suck" brigade.
[Tuj] Phew.
cards
I'm terrible at sending cards, and I find it a nuisance. What's worse though, is that my mum gets cards and she has NO idea who the people are. She may have met them once, or be related to them, but if they sign the card with their first names only it's hard to guess. She gets a few like that every year.
Cards
I go through the ritual, but only because it's generally done. But awkward situations sometimes come up. Should I send a Christmas or birthday card this year to my lately ex-sister-in-law? At what point should a Christmas card to my brother also be addressed to his new partner?
I donate, instead of sending cards. That, and I usually work extra shifts at Christmas so I don't really have the time.
cards
We did get one christmas card last year that said that they would not be sending cards this year, but would be making a donation to a charity (I think it was for MS) instead. Sounds good to me! We did that in work too - everyone gave a couple of pounds and we gave it all to a charity instead of giving out cards.
Which begs the question ... How does one let people know that one is donating to charity instead of sending them a card?
[Chalky] You send them a charity card.
Cards etc
Why do people have to know one is donating to charity except to inform them what a Wonderful Person one is? Why not send cards as usual and donate to charity? Or send "charity" cards? I normally send cards to people I don't see very often; it just means you've remembered them and value them. Some, but not all, of a group of pub mates have taken to sending (i.e. dishing out in the pub) Christmas cards to each other, which I think is barmy. I don't do it and it's done me no harm whatever.
Nothing in particular
Just thought I'd try and introduce a new subject, but I can't think of one. Anyone care to comment?
[Phil] I'd love to help, but I'm away to Bury to see IQ in concert.
New subject
I've been out all evening - has Blair gone/died/been arrested/resigned/emigrated yet? Can't wait.
I played all 7 of my tiles in one go in a game of Scrabble yesterday - the word was SLEETED.
Maybe changing the subject should be the new subject.
(Tuj) You could have had DELETES or STEELED.
[Rosie] I'd also spotted those (and the D was actually a blank!) but I picked SLEETED over STEELED (DELETES didn't fit on the board).
* waves from Ambleside *
Cards
I was firmly in the anti-card camp, but I've found things have changed since having a kid. Suddenly photos of the littleun are a commodity for relatives - especially the older and less internet savvy kind. So, I've been sending cards using pictures of my son to people where in the past I might have a) sent a crappy off the shelf card and hated the whole process and b) not bothered through apathy.

One thing that kick started it all was finding a program called Comic Life (Mac users - I recommend it heartily) which is great for knocking up comic strip style cards using my own photos. I've also been known to send an occasional e-card as a slightly more colourful way of marking an occasion than just sending email. I think cards for me inhabit a sort of middle zone of contact with someone, and I find it pleasing to think that I can send my offline relatives something tangible with a picture of their grandson/great grandson on it.
ego tripping
I've made a move in every game in here today, so I may as well mention it here :-)
[Chalky] You should win something... a sort of sedimentary layer award.
[rab] Do html tags work in the titles of games? Actually I was mainly thinking of the hiding tags - a game entirely consisting of hidden moves would be fun. I was also wondering if it might be time for another Lies game.
Tag
[Tuj] No.
Fresh morning
When bringing in the milk this morning at half six, there was a definite sense of the summer being over. A low haze of thick grey cloud, drizzle soaked grass and the street lights still on (not doing much but just quietly announcing that the mornings are getting darker). Inside the lights turned on for breakfast and side lights needed on the car driving in. At least one thing the heating is still off and will hopefully stay that way till October.

I don't want another Lies game.

Here in the deep south (Hants) it is doing the old cats and dogs routine (and to a strong degree at that). Certainly a change having been building sandcastles on Monday!
[Inkers] Well don't start one then.
I'm going to have to get my chimney swept, as it looks like I might be here till the end of October :-(
I can't wait for there to be a nip in the air - it's rainy here, but so warm and muggy. In preparation for autumn and winter, I ordered some new boots yesterday and tested the central heating. But I think the ancient boiler's pump has given up so the central heating doesn't work. I don't need it yet, but I'm hoping this'll prompt the landlords into renewing the boiler. They seem so proud of being to make it limp along for longer than is sensible, dammit. I just want a nice condensing boiler to make only as much hot water as I need, not a hot water tank - it's daft for just one person. In the meantime, I have a warm laptop for personal comfort :o)
We had British Gas round to do the annual service the boiler the other day, its a bit doom and gloom, it is old and parts are hard to replace. They have suggested a new combi boiler.
[pen] Sh. Don't wish it away. There'll be plenty of nip in good time. [Tuj] Lies games are really impossible to play, they're always the least popular games in the Morniverse and usually end up neglected.
[Inkers] Do it. It'll be quieter and more efficient.
Speaking of energy, having just discovered that I'm paying more than twice what I did for electricity a couple of years ago, I looked into other possibilities. Apparently, one can now change electricity suppliers with just a few clicks on a web page, and I stand to save 20%. Is it really that simple? Has anyone here done it? I'm looking at Powergen vs. Atlantic, and I wonder how Powergen can now stay in business except by relying on the inertia of their customers. (Yes, I know it's evil to heat a house with electricity, but I doubt if it's adaptable to gas.)
Electricity slags
Funny thing, electricity pricing - I was involved in the new trading arrangements which came into force in 1998. One of the effects of them is that it's cheaper to buy small quantities of electricity than large most of the time, so the big players like Powergen are somewhat handicapped. The difference is nothing like 20% though. Of course, lots of suppliers have short term or 'new customer only' promotions, hoping to get people in and then rely on inertia. The cheapest thing to do is therefore change often.
Do you have people going door-to-door trying to get people to change their gas/electricity company? For a few months here I was plagued by 'em. Started fantasizing about electricifying the doorbell to give them a shock... rude words were thought, but not said.
[flerdle] I did get a few a while back, very strange. The first one opened by saying "How would you like to save money on your electricity bill?", and wanted me to sign up there and then, without even saying what company he was representing. Then a few months later, two young women doing "a survey" asked if I had switched suppliers, "like most of your neighbours have". Nul points. Probably from the same company, whoever they were, and if I did, I'd make a point of never doing business wth them, ever. Then the first chap came back again and I just said "Not interested" and closed the door.
[INJ] Odd, I'm going by the companies' own published tariffs for an Economy 7 dual meter. All the companies seem to claim to be at least "part of one of the biggest suppliers", although that's rather an elastic expression.
Deregulating Utilities = cheaper phone/gas/'lectric
It has been my experience that deregulating state-owned utility services results in a welter of paperwork for the consumer who is bombarded by junk mail exhorting this or that 'cheaper' version of whatever it is. They invariably aren't cheaper in the long run, largely because of the increased costs associated with legislation, litigation and advertising. Service call-outs become a nightmare of humanless voice-mail mazes and all one really gets is a warm feeling when one thinks about the 'good old days'. My gas service was recently split from the monopolistic energy carrier from my area. Costs increased overnight by 10-15% and there are now three phone numbers to report a gas leak with no 24-hour call-out. The joke? that the billing departments, although ostensibly now separate for gas and electricity, still use the same style account numbers and go to the same building. Indeed, I can pay my electricity bill at a window in a gas-company cashier's office. I suspect the bills are made up on the same computer. It's all a game.
I've argued on the doorstep with an electricity account swapper guy before too. I told him I didn't want to discuss it there and then, and he kept asking me 'why not?'. so I shut the door on him. It was quite scary, to be honest, he was becoming vehement. Lord knows what it's like for little old ladies.
This is one of the benefits of having an entryphone system - with a bit of skill (and luck in having the topmost buzzer) you can generally fend these people off before they gain access to the stair.
Also, how do they tell whose electricity it is? It's all the same wires, and the electrons aren't labelled.
'leccy
[Raak] You could spin 'em up with a particular bias though. That way you could discriminate yours from the rest by having a filter installed at the customer's service entrance that let through electrons with a penchant for drinking only gravity fed beer or that preferred a lawn mowed in alternating stripes and kept the others out for example.
Don't you realise you're all geing ripped off. It's AC electricity - that means you're getting the same electrons going in and out of your meter day in day out, yet you get charged as if they were all brand spanking new...bloody nerve these leccy suppliers have got, I reckon.
Privatisation
(SM) Quite so. Competition in itself costs money and furthermore there has to be rake-off for the private company or they wouldn't be interested in the first place. So naturally it costs more, or the service is poorer. Another example is Directory Enquiries, privatised for no good reason whatever except to satisfy the current political dogma. Don't get me going about the railways, about which I know a bit. Truly the country is run by idiots.
(Phil) A very good point. The less fastidious among us would settle for AC/DC but that's up to them, naturally.
I'm glad someone mentioned Directory Enquiries... I remember that once upon a time it was operated by BT for free; then they charged about 10p which could be circumvented by using a phone box; looking at last month's phone bill, I notice that fierce competition has delivered the fantastic bargain of 60p per enquiry. Victory!
Since they started charging, I've not used directory enquiries once. I find 192.com to be very good.
Slightly tangentially, at work, I have had no end of incorrect reservations, e.g. someone books at this Bull's Head, then turns up for dinner at another, because 118118 or whoever has given them the wrong number. One night we had two bookings that didn't show, so I called them the next day saying "Hello, this is the Bull's Head at Ratby; you had a reservation with us last night..." Both people failed to notice the "Ratby" bit, even when I said it so clearly, and said "yes we were there". Then when asked where exactly, one said "Well, we booked at the Bull's Head in Newtown Linford, but when we got there we couldn't find it (I was able to tell them that it changed name 8 years ago), so we went to the Bull's Head at Woodhouse Eaves." The other said "You know, on the A47", which is about 6 miles away in Leicester Forest West. Unfortunately, I think there are 11 Bull's Heads in Leicestershire, and half of them are within a 12 mile radius
[Phil] Well, with a bit of creative yet inexpensive sign alterage you could easily become the Bull Shed. That should stop the problem. Alternatively, add a sauna at the back and call your place The Bull's Head of Steam.
[rab] Unfortunately, we were not internet enabled when our water was leaking into the flat below and we didn't know the number for a plumber that had been suggested to us...
Sorry, that should have been directed at [Phil]
Persistent Salesmen
[penelope] We need a new game where the object is to supply a witty, brief and above all final response to "Why not [discuss my proposal now]?"
[Sierra Mike] Perhaps with each person giving an answer to the previous person's salesman's line, then supplying a new salesman's line of their own?
[Raak] That would work too, though I was just thinking about supplying alternatives for penelope to use after the Why not? was delivered. Sort of along the lines of Mad Magazine's old Snappy Answers to Stupid Questions feature. One question, many one-liner responses.
[rab] Commiserations - it's a shame that necessity forces one to be ripped off :-(
end games
To make way for the new game I think it is time for Cancel Mansell to move along, ready for Why Not? or something new.

I dread to use the 'C' word in September but the school sent out the Christmas catalogue yesterday, and the milkman dropped off this morning a leaflet for spring and Christmas flowering bulbs.

Is it proper or just morbid bad taste omn my part for wanting to see how the hamster from Top Gear had a near fatal crash. Hopefully he will recover soon and take his revenge out on a few more caravans.

It's an 'x' word
[Inkers] I have already planted bulbs in pots for next spring and bought xmas cards (from the V&A, online, before they run out, which is what happened last year).
[pen] Very impressed and also quite jealous.

Can I also just say about the two people that heckled John Reid, it was a set up. A member of the cabinet going to an invited audience of muslims, security would have been tight. But two well known radicals simply walk in unnoticed!! pah!! It's a government conspiracy I tell you.

X marks late September
Today I saw a pub advertising Christmas meals today. That is, you could go in today and have a Christmas meal. WIth free bottle of champagne (which I think must mean a one-glass quarter bottle of white fizz).
I'm so happy to be moving to a pub that does not do food. Christmas will not be a word that makes me shake with fear this year :-)
[Phil] As I recall, you didn't do food when I came in anyway! :-)
[phil] A pub that has no food? Not even chicken in the basket! But I presume you will still be working on Christmas Day.
I stopped in at a pub at Kinlochleven that had two entrances; one for walkers and one for... I don't know, everyone else, I suppose. I arrived by car but I as was I scruffy and dressed for walking I went in the former as a courtesy to what I supposed was their intent. Inside I discovered that not only were the two parts of the pub completely separate, with the walker section gulag-spare, but they even served different food! I ordered some manner of pie and got some hideous little prepackaged thing that had been semithawed in the microwave, which I would have regarded as inedible even had it been warmed up properly. The thing is, it appeared to be quite a different thing from what they were serving in what I could see in the remainder of the place. I concluded that they absolutely despised walkers but couldn't exclude them, so they decided to quarantine them and make them miserable in the hopes of developing a reputation that would repel as many of them as possible.
[Inkspot] To take that suggestion perhaps more seriously than it was intended, if it was a setup, it seems to me a quite benign one. After all, it appears the two hecklers were real radical Islamists, not stooges, and if the authorities troubled themselves no further than making sure no bombs got in, well, freedom of speech and all that. It's hardly a dirty trick to let them condemn themselves out of their own mouths in front of the press. What are they going to do, complain that they weren't suppressed?
Come and see the tolerance inherent in the system! Help, help, I'm not bein' repressed!
In letting them in they were certain to go off at anytime, for the speaker it did not matter, he needed a headline otherwise it would have been just another day at the office. Suddenly a small paragraph inside became front page news. It was manipulation by of events for a desired outcome.
[Uncle K] That's just saturday lunchtime :-)
[Inky] Indeed, that is the current status of the place. No children permitted either, and the place is packed! If there is no tradition of that pub opening on Christmas Day, then this year I will have the day off. Next year wil be different. If it does currently open, I'll do it for 2 hours.
[Dan] Is that the pub that overlooks the water, with the Atlas brewery behind it? If so, I was there 2 and a bit years ago, and although we had to leave our packs in the lobby, or outside, they were perfectly welcoming, and had some wonderful beer from the aforementioned brewery. The toasties were smashing !
[Inkspot] I am, perhaps wrongly, getting the impression that you find something wrong with that. But everything people do is "manipulation of events for a desired outcome". Or in less tendentious language, acting to achieve their goals. Nothing dishonest happened: the hecklers hanged themselves with their own rope (I hope -- but I haven't followed subsequent reports to see what mainstream Muslim reaction has been). If indeed there was a nod and a wink to the security services to flagrantly let the opposition be heard, I don't have a problem with that.
[Phil] I dinna think so. They didn't have a lobby for one thing, and for another, like I said, walkers were shunted into a room that felt like a holding pen for undesirables (which on reflection is what it was), and there was no brewery attached. It was some time ago. In fairness it was one of only two less than delightful pub experiences I had in Scotland, and as for the other, well, I'll frame it in the form of retrospectively self-evident advice: If you're at the Fringe and you find a pub that miraculously isn't jammed with people, it is safe to assume that there's a good reason for it. My own fault in both cases, of course, as it's really not difficult to simply leave places that don't feel right.
[Dan] I have a wonderful memory of walking into Kinlochleven from Glencoe. It was not long after midday and there was only one "PH" marked on the map. As we rounded the corner, the pub hove into view. I believe it was called The Anchor, and a dingier, drabber looking place it would be hard to imagine in such a picturesque location. A youngish bloke (20 or thereabouts) was walking the other way, obviously a local (due to lack or rucksack etc), so I shouted across the street "Is that the only pub in town?". The look of horror on his face will stay with me for many years as he replied "Hell, no! No unless ye like trippin over pushchairs and shit! Carry on to the river, you'll be fine there."
In the phamaceutical product naming stakes I thought it was difficult for anusol to be trumped (so to speak), but it appears to have been done.
And on the topic in hand [Dan] Can you remember which pub in Edinburgh that was?
[rab] Slightly odd thing just now. The site displayed without any CSS (just a bulleted list of games). A reload got it back as normal. I don't know if this was just a momentary glitch or something you'd want to know about.
If it happens again, look at the page source and see if the css is actually being loaded in the html (by a LINK tag).
[rab] Unfortunately not. I'm certain it was in Rose Street, or just off, but that's about it. It had a "locals only" vibe which we were too oblivious to pick up on at first.
pharmaceutical names
[Rab]That stuff has been around for years! Which probably explains the name. Can you see a new product coming out with a name like that? At least you can't have any doubts about what it's for.
[snorgle] Although, oddly, its makers do, referring euphemistically to "feminine itching". That sounds to me like some sort of marital complaint.

[Dan] Oh well, it's probably been overhauled and turned into vertical drinking bar now. Not sure which I prefer really.

[feminine itch] What does this sentence mean: "Every woman shares in the dilemma of those nagging feminine problems."?
(Projoy) Quite. What dilemma? But I can't see much wrong with the product name. It's certainly not in the same league as Anusol. *(creases up)*
[Projoy] I don't care what the sentence means, but I loathe the use of those "those" words in advertising and journalism.
[Phil] You've got to admit, it would be worse with "them" instead.
[Darren] As a Geordie (originally), I think "them" would be much more fun.
Shouldn't it be 'they', to aim at the Glaswegian market?
Done that list yet?
Next from their range of products is Lipusol for "Every man shares in the dilema of those nagging feminine problems". *scarpers quickly to the shed*
*lays a trail of gunpowder from the back door to the shed and puts a match to it*
[INJ] Indeed, for the cowboy market, it should be "them thar"
If you wanted to be really misogynistic, how about "you" instead?
[Phil] Cowboys have nagging feminine problems?
You've not seen Brokeback Mountain? Actually, I haven't, so I've no idea if that joke works or not
[Nea] They became cowboys to escape problems with nagging females. (Mine's the storm cape and stetson hanging by the door, thanks.)
One cape required
[INJ]You'll be in trouble now, I hope you have better blast doors on your shed than I did.
Should you not be needing that cape later , if it could be passed over here with a pair of size wellies as the grey storm clouds in the sky over the Brunel Tower, the car park is already flooded.

Finally after all this time reached I have managed to become Top Trader at Celebdaq. The only thing being had to use my BBC login of Cleddau, it is on the banks of that fair waterway that I was raised.

[Inkspot] Ah - that's what you look like!
[Inkers] You credited evil_edna! I'm touched, and you have attained a higher ranking than I ever did - my best was No. 4, by accident, once. *Blushes* You have learned well, glasshopper.
Found out today that I didn't get the new job I'd gone for, but, hey - new car and new flat - two out of three's not bad!
Commiserations once, and congrats twice then, Uncle K.
[Phil] Ta! Of course, the new job would have helped to pay for the other two...
Hurrah for Uncle!
[UK] How did the play go? Bad luck about the job, sure there's another (and hopefully better) one waiting for you.
Reminder
Which reminds me - congrats to Nadia, and thanks for the cheque.
[Lib] Play went astonishingly well, as it happens... no major cock-ups anywhere, and I managed to learn all of my lines in time for the opening night (which helps)! Still a little puzzled about the job, as I felt I gave a cracking interview, I fulfilled the criteria, and I'm a redeployment case, so I get preferential treatment (supposedly). I'm going to take them up on their offer of a feedback interview - I'm hoping that it's because they decided to employ two people who were excellent, rather than not employing me because I was crap.
someone say something!
[UK] Congrats. And the right job will come up at the right time :o)
In other news, I have resumed salsa dancing after a 7 week break during the summer, and I'm pleased to report I haven't lost my mojo. The plan is to do it at least twice a week, sometimes three times a week over the winter. I may need encouragement. I most certainly will need new black leather dancing shoes, as my pale suede ones just look odd in the winter :o)
*is still trying to work out what rab meant in his last post - even tho' it's none of her business*
not saying nuthin'
I should not smile at the misfortune at others but the goings on between the England RFU and Saracens. You have the RFU trying to tell the team which position to play him so he is ready for the national side. Someone payed a kings ransom for Andy Farrell as an instant fix, but is quickly turning into a farce.
Good morning everyone. Good weekend?
[pen] Not bad, thanks, except my team lost twice, including a shut-out on Sunday. re - what you were saying about job prospects... I'm now following up an internal vacancy as a junior press officer.
[pen] Weekend was tolerable considering I had to work from 11am till midnight friday, saturday and sunday. Thankfully have today off to recover/revise. How was yours, pen?
[pen] Owwww, my head hurts - hence, yes I had a great weekend, thanks.
[Lib] Full, thanks! Thursday night = new salsa class (made my legs ache - a good thing); Friday night - party in a bar in Soho to celebrate west end transfer of a play directed by a 'friend' of mine (pay £6 on the door to buy expensive drinks in a room full of people all trying to work out who's famous); Saturday - Tennyson Society service in Poets' Corner, Westminster Abbey, followed by lunch and a visit to the Dickens (yawn) museum on Doughty Street; then out for a chinese meal with the Bloke; Sunday - light shopping in Ealing, and my second parking ticket of the week :o(. I am not going out this week!
[pen] Going out just causes more problems than it solves, in my experience. And oddly, I've just remembered we have nothing defrosted for dinner. Curses.
[nights] I have a blog called : "So What Are you Having For Tea Tonight?" which is meant to address that problem, but I haven't written enough of it yet.
[nights] Can't you just stick something in the microwave? Or get a takeaway.
[penelope] Was the Ealing trip to seek out/purchase a light? Or do you have varying degrees of shopping gravitas? And you should avoid parking illegally, IMHO.
[Phil] We didn't KNOW we were parking illegally! The sign was tiny, high up and camouflaged against adjacent scaffolding. And I have various degrees of shopping gravitas. In fact, I bought a test-piece of cookware - a black Columbian earthenware pot that can be used on the hob or in the oven. I have to 'season' (or do I mean 'temper'?) it tonight by boiling water in it for half an hour in the oven, to stop it being so porous. Lord knows how that works.
[pen] I do sincerely hope you didn't get the two parking tickets at the same place ;-) Seriously though, aren't there yellow lines and so on in your area?
Phil, I'm not daft. I got one last weekend in Notting Hill due to lying naked on a couch still having a very expensive facial at the time the parking ticket ran out, and another in Ealing on Sunday due to parking on a single yellow line on a Sunday afternoon. Anywhere other than London, Sunday afternoons on a single yellow would be OK, wouldn't they?
four
Do I spy candles on the MC5 logo? *brings out a cake *

Since the parking came under the council here the interpretations have become very strict and a lucrative income stream. The FM manager of our office is going to bring in a clamping policy for unauthorised parking in allocated staff areas, I can see trouble ahead. Our council members tend to see themselves above such policies, no smoking in Civic Buildings inc meeting rooms and private offices seems not to apply to them only officers and members of the public.
Fork handles
The number of candles may be misleading - the site doesn't celebrate its 4th birthday until Jan 16th.

I, on the other hand, ...

Candles
I think someone has vandalised your menora rab. :o) MHROTD.
Happy Birthday rab
Drat - just missed saying it on the day itself
Unkempt
[Sierra, Chalky] Thanks.

More flat-based excitement this morning. The electricity went off during Mrs-rab-to-be's shower, which I thought was just a generic power cut since no fuses had tripped in our fusebox. A note of warning was sounded by the fact that our neighbour across the way wasn't experiencing any trouble, nor had anyone else called Scottish Power when I phoned them. The chap's been out and I'm told that the supply cable from the distribution box in the stairwell to our fuse box exploded as a result of too much load imposed on it by our shower (of all things - I would have thought the oven were more power-hungry). We were lucky it didn't cause a fire or disrupt the whole street's supply. Apparently it's all due to the fact that the previous owners (or their electrician) didn't inform Scottish Power that extra capacity would be needed when they did up the bathroom. There's quite a lot of things they didn't seem to do well, humph.

birthday shower
[Rab] Happy Belated Birthday... and commis for your water/electricity woes. You'll just have to boil up a few pans of water and take a bath together :o)
(rab) I think showers take 10 kW, or about 40 amps, which is a lot. With a 10-kW oven you could start a cottage indusry smelting iron ore.
Exploding Cables
[rab] They didn't find the homonculus you made from bits of dead bodies in the cellar or the high-voltage equipment needed to reanimate it then?
Good to see that the legendary Scottish parsimony extends to the current carrying capacity of domestic wiring. "Just enough and nae morrrrrrre, d'ye ken?".
[Rosie] Yes, 40A would cause quite a glow...

[SMike] Nice theory, but I suspect it has more to do with the fact that the electrics probably haven't been upgraded since they were installed. I estimate that this would have been around about the time that electricity was invented, given that the block was erected in 1897.

1897
Presumably the wiring spec was predicated on the widespread use of the household Wimshurst Machine to make up the difference for those high-current spinning wheels and so forth.
High amperage
In America the current per watt would be at least twice what it is here and the said shower would take nearly 90 amps. The wires would need to have four times the cross-sectional area. I suppose they know this. It does have the advantage of being safer, at least in one aspect.
Hi all (and everyone else)
Brief and forced hiatus there. Nothing to worry about, moving up to university for my second year. All very exciting. Now living in the delightful town of Royal Leamington Spa, and after around a month there's finally internet in our household.
[Tuj]Good to see you back, and good luck and enjoy your second year
Best bit of spam yet
I'm emailing you today to request a link exchange between our website and yours. I found your website by searching Google for Nail Fungus. I think our websites have a similar theme to your's, so I am interested in exchanging links.
If I wanted to find out about Nail Fungus, I can't think of a better place to go.
Tuj] Welcome back too. Whereabouts in Leam? I grew up in Warwick and went to school in Leam. One of the first places outside the big cities to have curry houses back in the early 70s, doncherknow.
Names
I hope this won't offend, but I would like to know how to pronounce the names "Tuj" and "Irouléguy" properly. Please excuse if this breaks etiquette in some way.
[Sierra] ih-RULE-eh-GEE (hard G, primary stress on RULE). I'm not sure about Tuj but most people at pilgs say "Tudge" (thus revealing that we talk about you non-attendees behind your backs).
[SM] Yes, I'd go "tudge", though oddly most people I'd talk to who've seen the name have the first instinct "toozh" (vowel like "smooth" consonant like "pleasure". Irouléguy's a good one to learn - daft as I am I initially thought it was a bizarre variation on naming himself "I rule" Guy.
[Darren] Oh dear oh dear. I'd hate to think what.
[Irouléguy] South Leam, Brunswick Street. Lovely part of the world, though I haven't tested any curries yet.
[Inkers] Thanks very much!
SM] Mine's from a French appelation controllée.
Tuj] It wasn't daft. A lot of people thought that until I got the chance to explain it at a pilg.
There's a number of decent pubs on the Radford Road, but I don't know south Leam otherwise - I did most of my drinking in town and north Leam. If you get over to Warwick, the Zetland in Church Street is a lovely boozer.
[Irouléguy] I may have been the only person to recognize the AC, and guess the pronunciation :-) I'd be interested to know if anyone else did.
BANG!
What I did at the weekend. Recording thanks to Pave's cameraphone.
[Phil, Irouléguy] I didn't spot the appelation controllée; I don't even know what one is.
[Knobbly] It's a system the French use for wines which ensures that only wine made in a particular place (or in a particular way) can bear a particular name. The most famous example is Champagne.
[Tuj] I would automatically say Toozh, although there's a vague sense in my head that it could be a to-eye (but not quite like that, sort of using the Russian "bI" sound, where the "j" implies palatisation.
Er, in fact like the second person in Russian.)
[Phil] I based an AVMA on I's AC quite a while ago. I'm quite sure INJ knows it as well.

[tuj] Toodge, in my head.
jiff
I read 'tuj' as tudge. But then again everyone knows I talk funny.
twee
Iroul's AC I vaguely recognised, though I don't think I've ever drunk it. 'Tuj' is 'tudge' for me (unless it's 'tüy')
I'm the funniest, sothere
[flerdle] You talk funny? This is how I pronounce "Tuj". (Sorry about the format. I tried converting it to mp3 but then it turned into scratchy silence.)
(Néa) Real Player comes up but just sits there, doing nothing. Any ideas? (flerdle) No funnier than me because that's how I say it.
Names
[Tuj, Irouléguy] Thanks. Sorry if that seemed dense. I had been hearing them as "Toy" and "I rule a gye". Thank Jod we didn't meet yet.
[Rosie] No, I don't know - I opened that file in Quicktime. Does this work?
[Néa] It works for me :-)
Crikey, three arbitrary letters and so many different pronunciations! And is it just me who thinks Néa's sounds like someone spitting?
(Néa) It does. I'm going to play it all night. You are the Scandinavian Charlotte Green. (I hope that means something to you). :-)
(Tuj) Arbitrary? You mean your real name is Herbert?
[Rosie] As in Spotty Herbert? Not Herbert but yes to the arbitrary. If you sift some of the conversations we've had about name anagramming I'm sure you could find what it is.
Charlotte Green is me!
[Rosie] It does, and I'm deeply touched :-)
Herbaceous
(Tuj) There's a difference between being a herbert and being a Herbert. Fain would I suggest you were the former, or now, the latter, even. Where are these conversations? Are they in Another Place, or Mc-Eye-oss, as I call it?
Nice to see MC5 back!
[Darren] Indeed!
[Rosie, belatedly] I believe somewhere far up this very page, though probably on the Scots Ios also.
Out(r)age
Sorry for the outages. The server suffers mysterious reboots, up to two a day, and for no reason we can discern. Usually it comes back up again automatically, but sometimes it doesn't - usually when the person with the reboot password is on holiday or something. That's what happened this weekend. We're trying to arrange a test of the hardware (which we don't physically have access to - in fact, I'm not even sure I know where it is) to see what's going on.
Rats!
That was me, by the way.
[rab] I think we knew that - and I had thought to myself rab wouldn't be so careless as to name himself 'rat' so it must be some sort of subtle post-modern ironic thingy equating to that saying 'the first rat to desert the sinking ship' - not that MC5 is, or even was, a sinking ship, I hasten to add, but it just might have seemed like that to you and others who expend their valuable time keeping it all afloat so when it went down, so to speak, you may have imagined that it looked as though you were sort of deserting it, in a manner of speaking ... Is that too too much? Perhaps I ought to shut up now ....
(Chalky) Do you realise that you have just posted the longest sentence in the Morniverse? Would it be indelicate to suggest a degree of insobriety?
[Rosie] I'd venture, before we make any such suggestion regarding Chalky, to suggest that we first need to establish beyond what I can only call a reasonable level of doubt that she has indeed posted what you have called the very longest sentence that has been seen in the Morniverse, or whether, by virtue of an insufficiency of time, you have been unable to research for yourself the quite startlingly good game we played quite some time ago now - but there it is: the history of the great game as played online becomes lengthier by the day - of a variant of MC, which is most commonly referred to as Long-Winded Crescent, having established which, and assuming our conclusion to be the latter, I could do no better, I feel, than to refer you to that most masterly achievement - in particular the contributions made by the much-missed Watty - and perhaps even, were it not for a want of time on my own part, suggest a new round of the same.
[Rosie] Not so m'dear - just a feeble attempt at stream-of-consciousness-posting. Silly stuff really :-)
[Projoy] Excellent idea
Prolixity
(Projoy) Brilliant Victoriana! L-WC must be before my timeI'll believe you.:-) here - I'll look it up. (Chalky) Mm, no spelling mistakes, so
What happened there? "I'll believe you. :-)" should be at the end, not stuck in the middle. Do you believe me?
Maybe it just jumpsTuj
Make ways
[Projoy]LWMC came to an end before I can across !York but was still much talked about, and would welcome a revival the only black cloud on the horizon is I feel that such a game that requires forethought and patience to create the moves I wonder whether todays players have the stamina. The games that appear to be popular are those that can be played with a quick visit play a short one liner or couple of games then off elsewhere. Games that require thought are few, I hazard the when AVMA clue disappears off the page and goes off the page into the second page involvement drops off to one or two plus the setter. I would very much like to be wrong and for LWMC to be a success played by more than three players after the first week. "MC Works on the Tracks" can be killed off to make way.
Anyone got a link into the archives for it, then?
here
Yes? Looking at it reminded me of the DaveK Massacre. Dark days.
You can post links on this site, you know.
let's see if this works...
You meant here and its continuation here, I think. Or go to the Yorkives from the front page of mc5, sort by game names, and go to L. They're the ones with the obvious titles. I think there were only the two bits, but am happy to be corrected on that.
How curious; Tuj's link didn't work and after I posted mine it did. Anyway, them's the ones.
Hmmm. Might I suggest this game be revived after NaNoWriMo finishes, since some of us will be directing our wordiness in that direction for the month of November?
[flerdle] You must have caught Tuj's link in the few seconds I was converting it from just being written as plain text to a proper link, and getting it wrong in the process...
[rab] ahhhhh, i see...
[rab] You mean you sit there behind my computer checking everything that everyone writes and mending it where necessary? How diligent!
[rab] Hmm, how I forgot to put that as a link I'm not sure. I think I was just excited about visiting the !Yorkives again. Thanks for the fix.
Anyway, I think I was thinking of flerdle's second link primarily. But I'd back Darren's suggestion, as we can also bring games to a more natural end.
I saw hundreds of real, live Greengrocer's Apostrophe's in the greengrocer's at lunch time today. There is no danger of extinction there.
Greengrocer's Apostrophe's
[penelope] I understand what you mean by the term, but how did the phenomenon come to be called that? Is it a British phrase?
British phrase's
(SM) As far as I know it is. Are you from the America's or possibly The Antipode's? It arose because greengrocers often advertise their wares with the extraneous apostrophe, thus: Tomato's, potato's, cabbage's etc etc. Simple as that.
Continuing my tour of traditional British establishments this evening, some colleagues and I ventured out to play Bingo at a big Bingo Hall in Slough (not far from Slough Bus Station which features in the opening credits of 'The Office'). We got hostile stares from the regulars... we played two games (£5 very quickly spent, in my opinion, but we could have picked up £15,000 on one national game) and left to go mand find something to eat. But I have to say, the staff who explained how to play before we went in were great, and gracefully accepted our apologies for calling out two false alarms when we thought we'd won, as we made out early exit. It's a bloody complicated game, Bingo. Next office outing is either horse racing, or to the dogs in Walthamstow ;o)
(pen) Bingo? The dogs? Can't fool me - you're posh, really, aren't you? :-)
[Rosie] Coming to that conclusion, yes :o(
Tuj, flerdle] There's also this .
Clocking in
Just posting this to see what time the server thinks it is.
mild gloat
I'm very happy and wanted a little gloat. Hope you'll excuse me! I was given a diamond this morning. Necklace, not ring (would be too soon I feel). Very small, but its a diamond! No one has ever given me one before! No occasion. Just cos he loves me. Its nice to be loved. I'll shut up now.
sparkling
How could you be so heartless to accept it, Lib? That's probably the poor bloke's drinking-money-for-a-week now suspended from your neck. Soppy blokes - honestly!
(Dujon) Maybe your drinking money for a week. I wouldn't presume to know. :-)
[Lib] I am not so chauvenistic. Congratulations, your first girl's best friend.
MCIOS down
Can't get anything to go in though Preview works. Anybody know what's happened?
It's down now. I'm not sure what the problem is. Disk error, perhaps. This may be serious. I'm connected but there's not much I can do. I'll let you know.
Curiouser-er
That was really odd. The disk was in a peculiar state and very few commands functioned. Notably, I couldn't reboot it using any of the usual commands. (It's in a locked machine room at a colocation facility three miles from here and it's after 11:00 at night so pushing the button was not an option.) I did manage to force it into a reboot state somewhat more directly, and it came back promptly with everything seemingly fine. I'm doing an unscheduled backup now since today's didn't have a chance to occur at its normal time.
MCIOS
(Dan) Working OK now. Thanks, as ever.
Blue skies
Cold snap this morning with ice on the car, cross my fingers that this will remind the grass to stop growing.
Brrrr
I'm glad there was a frost today too. I'm hoping it'll make the slugs that terrorise my rabbit and eat her food go away. I've tried beertraps but the rabbit knocks them over and drinks the beer!
Cold snap
It's distinctly cold here in sunny Bath too - but then, this is why November is my favourite month!
Dodgy climatology
(nights) Dec, Jan, Feb and March are all colder than Nov, the last two sunnier as well.
ah but ... those particular months aren't adorned with spectacular autumnal colours. I'm with nights on this one.
Early November is my M's birthday... and since my father died, she and I have celebrated it by taking a city holiday to do the galleries and museums - Venice, Florence, Rome - and this year, Paris. On Wednesday for five days. I like November too :oD
Ooh, Paris in November. Sounds amazing. Have a magnificent time. After my exam I'm going to a health spa with my Mum, and she's paying! Hurrah! Send a postcard to the crescent if you can!
Autumn leaves
(Chalky) Yeah, OK, but it's still pretty well all green here ATM. Most leaves have hardly changed colour let alone fallen off the trees, probably due to the very warm and rather wet Sept/Oct. Climatological analysis shows that we should start trying to get used to this sort of thing.
I'm really going to miss Autumn.
Don't worry, nights, you'll get over her. Change your working hours to something a little more sociable and you'll find someone else in no time.
Chortle, chortle.
* hibernates for the next 4 months *
*decides she's done the "I hate the darkness" spiel sufficiently often for people to be as tired of it as she is of the dark*
Darkness
Talking of darkness, there was apparently a major power blackout across Europe last night, centred on Cologne in Germany. Given that's precisely where I was at the time, and furthermore, that I returned on a 10am flight with only 30mins delay, and only found out about it once I'd got back to the UK suggests either that I am, truly, the least observant person the world has ever seen, that the Germans know how to handle a crisis, or that I'm actually going mad. I shudder to think what effect such an event would have had on British transportation.
oh to be migratory
I'd send you the extra daylight I've got from all this daylight saving thing down here, but I think you'd have to come and get it yourselves, as it sort of deteriorates in the post. Only nat has taken up the offer so far, but I'm sure I could find some extra hammocks somewhere if need be. And Pounds (Euros etc) can buy a lot of Ozzie Dollas.
(rab) The power cut was attributed in some places to the cold weather, which is nonsense, and people just jumping on the Global Warming bandwagon. Don't forget that all departures from average of more than one microkelvin are caused by Global Warming and on this account we should be Very Afraid. From what you say the power cut was not as widespread as media reports suggested. Well, I never!
Hot under the collar
[rab] Yes, it was even reported here in a few pars of my local paper. 30 minutes downtime - THE END OF THE WORLD IS NIGH. Mind you I wouldn't like to have been stuck in a lift for that length of time. Kudos to the bloke/sheila who hit the button to get it all on line again.
[Rosie] I love it when journalist highlight the fact that something is the hottest/coldest since 1912 (or summat). I love it even more when they start averaging averages. Aargh.
(Dujon) Nothing average about November here so far; 6 consecutive sunny days, almost unheard of and well over half the month's normal meagre ration. It's all horizontal, of course, making driving impossible in certain directions and furthermore, shines in my window, waking me up far too early and showing up all the dust. But you can see the sky at night, which is great. Unbelievably (to most) there is still a Drought Order in East Surrey even though it's been pretty wet recently because the water has not yet replenished the aquifers. It won't have done, because the deficit was huge.
Hmmm....
According to the only report I can find that mentions it, the power cut was at about 10pm CET and lasted about half an hour. I think this would have been as I was walking back to my hotel from a concert - but even then I think I would have noticed an absence of street lighting... How very curious,
Greengrocer's Apostrophe's
Not exactly apropos but I thought you might be amused by a notice I saw in the window of my local Costcutters, thus:
"Get your freshly roasted chicken sold here".
Not quite what I meant
(Kim) Similarly, in Whitehorse Road, Croydon, there are notices informing us of the presence of "Traffic Enforcement Cameras" which seem to be saying "There WILL be traffic; we will enforce it; Don't you DARE not drive along this road. If you turn off down Gloucester Road we'll 'ave you." The funny thing is that there are no speed cameras, not that it makes much difference what with the parked cars, buses, traffic lights and pizza delivery boys with their blithe incompetence.
You could ask him over
Apologies
...for spurious entries - am sidegrading some stuff elsewhere on the server and want to make sure this site is unaffected.
Just out of interest, why is there a page that doesn't convey much information about the site on www.rab.org.uk? It's as if you don't want to let people in who don't think to add '/mc' on the end.
Front page
(i) Time; (ii) Googling my real name finds the front page and I'm not keen on advertising to my bosses how much time I spend on such frivolity.
Morning everyone. Lack of chat. What's the state of play?
"today we have stating of play .."
Hi pen :-)

OK here goes:

Banter Game - predict it will burst into activity now you've asked the question

Regurgitated Cheddars - disappearing up its own jacksy [as per usual] although Kim's recent contribution may spawn some interesting responses

AVMA Take 2 - Clever Raak has just slipped in there and beaten Irouléguy to the correct answer. Looks set for a new challenge so a possible frenzy of posting in the next 24 hours?

Cleri Who's Who - trundling along nicely. Time for someone to introduce a new one. That might be me if I get there in time.

Pea & Honey Recipes - is just awaiting a killer last line on the latest ditty.

Each Move Must Consist Of .. - zut alors!

AVMA PART 2 - has had a record number of entries since the First of November. That's because we all love telling lies.

MC Works On The Tracks - has gone very quiet. Perhaps there's a power failure.

The Obligatory Limericks - yay! Is about to launch into a classic cartoons fest. Hope everyone joins in. :-)

Concerning Torments - Pill Weng Lay
"Eleven and a half hours later"
Ah well - it seems that all the games are moving along nicely - except this one. Come on you lot! Talk to us.:-)
What do you want me to say?
(Chalky) You OK these days? I get the impression you are. :-)
[Rosie] H A P P Y B I R T H D A Y!
[and yes, thanks, I'm definitely on the mend]
[Chalky] Good to hear.
[Rosie] Happy Birthday, young man :o)
[Chalks] Pleased to hear it - and thank you for doing the run-down. What I actually meant was 'what's the state of play in everyone's lives?' Mine's OK, Paris was great but came back with a rotten cold which has made this week miserable. I'm looking forward to a weekend at home, most of it spent lounging in bed with my laptop, and the rest perhaps grappling with some severe pruning in the garden. I am going to roast a chicken too. All welcome.
[pen] Ouch. Hope you have a relaxing, restorative weekend. I'm still doing the study, not always successfully; saw the "Earth from the Air" exhibition last weekend (fabulous), as well as wandered around St Kilda (can anyone say "cake shops"?), bought a hat, looked at Luna Park but didn't go on any rides because it costs $7 a pop; and turned 30 for the sixth time. There were around 7 small hailstorms on Tuesday. I am growing peas, silverbeet and tomatoes. Apart from that, not much is happenning. OH, except that nat arrives on Monday, if she survives Syderney.
[flerdle and pen] Thanks. And sorry pen - I was being a bit facetious mainly because I had nothing of interest to say. Although .. I suppose I could have bored everyone rigid with tales of hospital procedures, ill-behaved sixteen year olds, cars that die on the dual carriageway because the alternator has packed in, etc etc. Am also looking forward to a stress-free weekend.
[Rosie] Happy Birthday! *raises glass*
[Chalks] Glad you're on the mend. Sixteen year olds are quite a handful so good luck with that!
As for me, well, I'm throughly fed up revising for an exam which costs seven hundred quid to take, only 30% of the people pass it, has more content than my finals did and I'm working junior doctor crazy hours. The exams in 18 days or something. And it doesn't get much better if I pass it, cos then the second part is at the end of Jan and is a day trip to London for personal humiliation. Sigh. But on the whole I'm quite happy!
Felicitations
(Ladies) Thank you all very much. I too raise a glass. It's embarrassing - I got presents from both my nieces. I hope they don't think I'm now some impoverished old dodderer because that's hardly the case. They're just v. nice and can say things to Uncle T that they couldn't say to Dad. (Lib) Why on earth does it cost £700 to sit an exam? Don't they want qualified people? *scratches head*.
Plonk
[Rosie] Many happies.

We had the window fitter come round to talk astragals and snib fasteners on Wednesday, should have nice new, thermally insulated and (hopefully) draught-free windows fitted at the beginning of December. We're currently trying not to get too carried away with booking our honeymoon, as it looks like it would be very easy to spend a lot of money that we won't have once the windows have been sorted, and we've got round to reversing the damage done to the flat by the previous occupants... But the boiler is fixed, at long last.

I'm also finally getting around to writing a lecture course I'm giving in January. Hopefully all this will still leave me time to do the work for and write and a paper for a suitably high-prestige journal (looking ahead to RAE next autumn). What fun.

Busy and expensive, rab. Good luck with all.

Is anyone able to explain to me why pizzas are so expensive? I've not partaken of one of these overpriced pieces of *&%^$ for years but it still puzzles me. Around my part of the woods a small pizza seems to average out around the AUD20 mark - sans delivery - (that's about £8 in UK money). Heaven only knows what a family size would be. For about AUD5 (£2) I can purchase a hearty steak sandwich including lettuce, beetroot, egg and tomato as a take-away. For the price of a pizza I could have a slap up meal and a schooner of beer at my local club.
(Dujon) Could be that they were once fashionable and originally the sellers could charge what they liked. They are maintaining the fiction that they cost a lot to make (simply can't be true) and people fall for it. It's distressing easy to relieve people of money - I've even seen people buying bottles of water but maybe their mains supply has been cut off and dehydration, especially in our climate, is an insidious and dangerous condition to be avoided at all costs.
pizza
They're about $7 or $8 down the road, for "large" (8 slices). Possibly $10 for maximum toppings. Sounds like it's your area, Dujon.
Forgetfulness
*happybirthdays to flerdle and Rosie and then to flerdle again*
The best pizza ever
Best pizza ever was 3 euros, from a scruffy cafe in Herculano, a suburb of Naples. My mother and I had thoroughly examined the Roman ruins in the old town of Herculaneum, which was destroyed by the same volcano that did for Pompeii. However, instead of being covered with hot ash, it was covered with a mudslide, which preserved the internal decorations of the villas - I have some fab photos of the murals and wall decorations, which are still very, very clear. Anyway, we passed this cafe on the way back to the train, argued with the patron to sit inside (I think he thought we looked like we could afford to sit outside, where they add a premium to the price of your meal)and had just the freshest, tastiest, thinnest crusty pizza ever. And paid less than 10 euros for two people, with drinks.
Oooh, flerdle, another gong! Happy Birthday :o)
(Néa) Don't quite follow that. Has flerdle had two birthdays in quick succession? Tempus fugit, certainly, but surely not that fast.
Don't laugh, these are famous last words
Is there anywhere in the Morniverse where we discuss current series of ISIHAC when they're on?
(Tuj) You naughty boy, you nicked that from Humph in tonight's show, where it had a certain resonance. It doesn't seem we actually discuss the show very much. Maybe it's just bad form to do so rather like middle-aged jazz fans not actually talking about (or even listening to) the music they're hearing but preferring to exchange jazz-related gossip, news, who's good, who's crap, who's playing where etc. The actual raison d'être for the yakking is taken for granted in both cases.
[Tuj] Some of us don't think the show is much good. The fact that I haven't actually listened to the show since before you were born is irrelevant to this observation.
There's a show?
[Rosie] Not stolen, quoted as a preface... Nice to see it wasn't just me listening! Your reasoning is pretty much what I expected... less so CdM, but then one can't argue with the old "before you were born" argument... Might as well start saying "things were better in my day" (which mind you gets by with less justification).
[SM] A popular outlet for the game of Mornington Crescent is the long-running BBC radio prgramme I'm Sorry, I Haven't A Clue. It's currently available through the BBC's listen again service, which is smashing.
(Tuj) Parts of the show don't always work but I suspend my critical faculties, remembering that the whole thing is a kind of in-joke, like Red Dwarf or Blake's Seven. But other parts have me creased with laughter. How does CdM know how old you are? Is he your Dad or sunnink?
Blimey!
It's 14.45 here, and it's dark already - due to very heavy rainclouds, I suspect, but it's very, very gloomy for this time of day. Incidentally, I drove around the Crescent at around midnight last night. I thought I saw the ghost of Willie Rushton crossing the road in front of me.
[Rosie] Probably working off the fact I mentioned starting my second year of university not long ago. Maybe? As far as I know CdM is not my father... but you never know...
(Tuj) Ah, so you're about 20. Such bliss! (pen) Same here. I put the light on at half two, expecting the end of the world meteorologically but no, bit of rain, bit breezy, mild, boring. It's about time we had an event which I can go on and on about.
[Rosie] A good 7 months 'til I'm that venerable ;)
Terribly gloomy weather today here in the Midlands. Sitting listening to Test Match Special, ah what bliss.
Wales Vs New Zealand
Good weather on the 5 day forecast for round here over the weekend, so will probably do a trip to Westonbirt. I'll be avoiding the Ashes and watching the second match between England and South Africa to see whether the win by England was a flash in the pan. World Cup next September and still rebuilding the team.
[Tuj] I knew your approximate age from long before that -- I think you identified yourself as 16 or 17 when you first started posting, didn't you? And I wasn't trying to make a serious "before you were born" argument. I used to listen to the show about 25 years ago, and thought it was only moderately funny. I haven't listened since, since I wasn't in radio range, and haven't bothered since these new-fangled internets came along. So my comment was supposed to be mainly tongue-in-cheek: that it is perhaps ridiculous of me to comment on the quality of the show when it is so long since I have heard it. On the other hand, nothing I have heard quoted at any of these sites actually makes me think it is any better than it used to be.
[CdM] I actually found it genuinely interesting to make such a "before you were born" statement. I have a feeling I identified myself as 14 the first time I posted... 5 years ago come April. How very very peculiar. Anyway... aren't you tempted to give it a listen from time to time?
[CdM] Odd question perhaps, but why did you get involved in the online MC sites if you don't like the show? (For what it's worth, I do like it and listen to it a lot.)
[Tuj] Genuinely interesting how? It was, as I said, meant tongue-in-cheek -- I thought it was pretty funny when I realized that it was indeed before you were born that I last listened to the show, and so I couldn't resist the chance to play the old fogey. And is it really five years since you started posting?? Wow. I definitely remember when you first showed up.

[Darren] I think we are funnier than they are. :-) (The one time I don't like these sites very much is when people simply use them as an excuse to recycle old jokes/monty python skits/etc. I think that the original humor that people create here is, at its best, really impressive.) Also, I prefer the active participation to passive listening.
Ageing
I'm not trying to think how long I've been pottering around the crescent. I think its about four years.... I don't really listen to the show as I forget its on, and I don't participate much as I'm really not that amusing. But I do appreciate other people's fine wit and wisdom.
[CdM] I don't know, I'm easily pleased I guess! And I apologise profusely for whatever you remember me for, as it's a fairly safe bet it wasn't anything amusing. I'd sum up myself the same way Lib does, except a bit longer time, listen a bit more and am much less amusing.
[Tuj] Gosh Tuj, you are having a bit of a crisis of confidence, with your comments elsewhere and here. Hope you're all right. *hug* I think you're very amusing and witty. But in my opinion that's why the crescent is great. There are a lot of witty people around who all appreciate the finer puns in life, some who realise how witty they are and others who do not. All together it makes a good mix.
Am I being over sentimental today? Hmmm.
[Néa] Thanks. :-)
Off to Sydney for a week. yay, I think.
[Lib] No, you're being a kind sweetie, as always!
[CdM] I tend to think that ISIHAC is funnier on average than these sites, but that these sites achieve far more impressive things (like Stratford-on-Crescent). [Tuj] I remember you as being nascently witty and very mature at fourteen. Certainly more so than I was at that age. I've always been rather grateful that there was no web until I was about nineteen. God knows what gaucheness I should have committed to amber otherwise. :)
Wibble
I always feel that my attitude to the Internet must be similar to that of my grandparents to, say, television, in that since it didn't exist until I was over the age of 18, that its somehow unsuitable for minors.
[Tuj] What Projoy said.
The er, internet thingy
(rab) I think a more prevalent attitude among older people is that the Internet, far from being unsuitable for minors, is in fact suitable only for these youngsters, who are suckers for any new technology. I don't agree with this view and think the Internet has now become something extremely useful for people of all ages and you all know how old I am. One less agreeable feature it has revealed is the large number of people who cannot marshal their thoughts into a coherent written form and are frankly a bit stupid. That's the price we pay for Extreme Democracy, but it's worth it.
ISIHAC
This site is an ISIHAC spin-off and is not meant to be the live show, which is both greater and lesser than the Morniverse, as Projoy implies. For instance, I think The Game Of Mornington Crescent only works live (like Pick-up Song) and attempts to reproduce it here lack the edge of ISIHAC. But other games (and the chat) are great and much more suited to the written word.
Today's news
Saw Casino Royale in Holloway last night. Pretty good - entertaining - which is the least I'd expect. Inexplicably dizzy this morning - I think this long running cold is affecting my ears. Also got an invitation to a N Yorks cocktail party (pint of bitter with a cherry in it) to be held just before Christmas from some friends I haven't seen for months, if not years, which was lovely. And there are still three unopened packets of biscuits in the office, which is good, because I'm flat out this week. :o)
Windows
We're getting our windows installed next week.
*Disdains weak joke about computer software.*
winders
[Rab] Wonderful. Have you thought about venetian blinds?
Just remember, if it wasn't for blinds, it'd be curtains for all of us.
*groans* so you don't have to
[Rosie] I considered asking them if they'd install MacOS instead...

[pen] We're not keen on venetian blinds - currently that's what we've got in the bedroom and it's horrible. Getting curtains made instead, whee.

Blinds
[rab] Did you consider vertical blinds with a pattern of ducks on them? Then you would have duck blinds.
New windows being fitted right now! At least, I hope the new ones fit in the hole that's just been opened...
Nice new windows, yay! More coming on Monday.
Hurrah!
Although I'm a bit concerned about the weather forecast...
Pardon me for barging in like this, but thought I'd mention that MCiOS is down and will remain down until at least midday today (Sunday 3 Dec). Apologies for the inconvenience.
It aten't dead yet...
Er, ignore that. Imagined this was MCiOS for some reason.
Okay, she ees back. Sorry and all that. Congratulations on the windows. Useful for defenestration purposes windows are, ye carn't defenestrate sans fenêtres y'know. By the way, given that I don't know what your place looks like, will a mental image of the flat from Shallow Grave serve? That's sort of my mental placeholder for Edinburgh dwellings.
(Oh, in case you haven't seen/can't remember it, the flat in that film was super awesome, like. Just in case it sounded like I was saying something negative because, like, I wasn't and stuff.) (Oh, and my wife made the curtains for the back of our house and they're really nice.)
Not quite as grand as the one on Shallow Grave - imagine one scaled down so as to be affordable by a junior academic and environmental consultant. I'll stick some pics up when the windows are done.
*tries the 'If it wasn't for venetian blinds, it'd be curtains for all of us' joke one more time.*
I'd don't get it. I mean, there's roller blinds as well, for one thing.
On the other hand, with a pencil and some paper you can simply draw your curtains.
Desperation
For the sake of keeping this going I hereby announce that I have had 68 mm rain this month, about three-quarters of the normal monthly total, and it's getting a bit squelchy. There's a lot more to come but fortunately up here we're unfloodable (almost).
merci buckets
Thanks Rosie. I *was* actually wondering if this December had been wetter than average or not. And I also wondered if the aquifers were filling up. If they're not, I'm going to give my hosepipe away.
new game?
Sometime just before November and NaNoWriMo, a game of Long Winded Crescent was suggested. There is a slot available ideal for the game and one which I never had the pleasure to play first time round.
The tornado in London shook people up, distance from the smoke being all, the 20 or so properties stuck in mid Wales last week did not register with the headline makers.
Wetter
We're having lots of rain. I haven't measured it, but we're not supposed to have *any* rain in December. :-(
Hmmm
Fairly dry here, though I note Sunday is supposed to be wet and windy. One weather site is suggesting winds of 21mph, another (the BBC) 35mph. I note that 35kph=21mph, so I'm hoping the BBC has made a metric-imperial error...
(pen) If it carries on like this it'll be an extraordinarily wet month, but extrapolation based merely on the first week is always a bit fanciful. It has been quite a bit wetter south of London than to the north this time. The aquifers take a long time to fill up and are still quite low, I believe. When there's a long wet spell our local Bourne flows, the last time being in December 2000 when it shut the A22 at Whyteleafe for 3 weeks. There was sewage in it as well. It's hardly the Mississippi but it seemed quite beyond the local council to do anything about it.
(rab) You're in Edinburgh, are you not? 35 mph (force 7) looks about right from a look at the forecast synoptic chart. (Néa) The latest from GFS (American computer model) suggests that the lowest temperature in Stockholm in the next week will be 3°C and you will have yet more molten snow. I know that this is most unusual. The info comes from a German weather site called wetter3, oxymoronic in English if said in German, if you see what I mean.
la la la
Lovely and warm and dry here. The fruit trees are laden with ripening fruit and the vege patch is loaded. The roma tomatoes look particularly fine. Will have to bribe someone to look after it all over the Christmas-NewYear break (we're heading north, unfortunately). Any takers? Must prepare to be seriously confused about the Orstrayan Chrissie (sunny, hot, lack of snow and log fires, sun in wrong place, moon upside down, etc).
Forecast here for today (Sat.) is warm - around the 30ºC mark. We even had some rain overnight, a whole 0.7mm. It's probably already evaporated. Good luck with the fires down south, flerdle, we had our turn a couple of weeks ago. Most of them were up the mountains from me - probably 20Km or so - but we did have the choppers water bombing an outbreak just a few hundred metres away for a while. Probably an arsonist or carelessness on someone's part as we haven't had any lightning. Sydney's water supply is getting perilously low; last figures I saw indicated around the 38% level. This is not good when 4 to 5 million people rely on it. The long term prognosis for decent rain is not good so I guess we'll have to move to even tighter water restrictions. My wife, who's the gardner in our family, will not be impressed.
s/gardner/gardener.
[Dujon] The fires are a long way from the city (over in the east and northeast of the state), but the smoke is here. The forecast temperature for today in some of those areas is 39°C.
What does she grow, Dujon? I do vegetables because they're interesting and edible, and the fruit trees are just part of the place; the fruit is a bonus. If we're serious about water conservation in Aus, all dwellings should have tanks (like they used to), water-efficient appliances and greywater recycling systems, and as little lawn as possible; until then, I have little patience for complaints about water restrictions. Some of the more basic water restrictions are just common sense, such as not watering in the heat of the day. Unfortunately, renters (about 1/3 of households here) have no say in what their dwelling has, as the owners usually couldn't give a
Hidden textfig
about it.
[flerdle] For ourselves, at least as far as vegetables go, not all that much. A few tomato plants, parsley, beans and the like; no spuds or other root stock (though she's been threatened with such - by me). The only fruit we have is one of each of Lemon, Orange and Grapefruit trees. When we bought the place a few years ago they were dreadful looking excuses for citrus trees but a little TLC and they are now bearing quite well. The rest is shared between her 'garden' stuff and her interest in rearing native plants. 'Tis not unusual to have a couple of thousand tube stock around the place. These vary from seedlings to 'ready to plant' stock. Oh joy, oh joy, carting around a watering can to keep them all satisfied and looking perky. I'd love a water tank, I really would, but cost and the lack of water makes it somewhat unlikely at the moment. Still 'n all I only have a shower once a week so that should make up for some of my infelicity. ;-(
*mutter, mutter* At least they're not going on about the bloody cricket.
What cricket? oh, THAT cricket...
[Rosie] Tough luck :-)
[Dujon] Commiserations. What does she do with it all? My vege patch is only about 3 sq m, possibly extendable by another 2 sq m if I ever get the time and energy (hah!). I'm still working out what grows here and what doesn't, and what the new pests are. Earwigs love silverbeet, it seems.
Howzat?
[flerdle] It's amazing what can be grown in a relatively small area of a garden so I reckon the extra couple of square metres would be worth cultivating. While a couple of thousand tube stock sounds a lot, they too don't take up all that much space. The tubes sit in trays each of which holds 40 tubes and are about 400mm x 250mm (approx.).
What she does with them is a long story but, in essence, she is custodian of some of the stock of a local (Katoomba) wildplant rescue service.
Earwigs and silverbeet? It sounds an unlikely combination - isn't Mother Nature wonderful?
There you go, Rosie, not a mention of our evening noise makers.
(Duj, flerdle) Very gentlemanly and ladylike respectively. In any case winning is rather vulgar, doncha think? (Duj) Iceland is running out of air - have a look at this.
Floating on air
937! Blimey, I see what you mean. I wonder if someone's making a killing shipping in oxygen tanks. Then again choppers may not stay afloat in that low a pressure.
Rosie, winning is only vulgar if you claim to have backed the victor with your local bookie and then refuse to buy a round. :-)
Suck
(Dujon) It's down to 932 now. Won't go any lower though. N. Atlantic record is 915 mb, UK 925. There's a piece about Bourke NSW in today's Observer which says the current drought is on its way to turning the place into a ghost town and it all looks a bit serious. I assume this is the same regional drought that is affecting your area. We have the opposite problem here, especially in Scotland and Wales but floods occur in most winters here somewhere or other.
Saunafridge
Am I right in saying that the correct technical term for "trying to get your living room the same temperature as the bedroom" is "balancing the central heating system"? If so, or indeed, if not, does anyone know how to go about it. (Probably never achieve this completely, as living room is 2x size of said bedroom, is furthest from the boiler, and north-facing, but currently the former is too cold, and the latter too hot...).
[rab] I'm not ignoring you, I don't know the answer.
[Rosie] Yes, Bourke is about 650Km northwest from me (as the crow flies). 93% of NSW is officially drought affected. The remaining 7% would be the northeast - coastal strip - of the state which is always much wetter than the rest (there are some beautiful rainforest areas in that region).
Bourke is a genuine outback town and within that classification is fairly big - pop. around 4500 (though this includes outlying residents in a 40-odd thousand square kilometre shire area). There's a bit about the place, and some very basic weather stats, here.
I have just successfully introduced two groups of friends to each other, both made initially through the net, and both based in Oxford. How satisfying :o)
(rab) If your radiators are individually thermostatically controlled then simply adjust them. If not, and this sounds more likely, they should have two valves, one at each end, one being a normal on-off valve, the other, hidden under a plastic cap, being a control or balancing valve. Prise off the plastic cap and adjust the control valve using a small adjustable spanner or some other tool. This will limit the flow through that radiator. If all this isn't possible simply turn off the rads in the bedroom until you need them. This will boost the flow through those in the living room. All this is based on my own system, which is steam age and installed in 1971. It still works very well.
(Dujon) Thanks for that. Bourke is not as dry as I would have thought, with 300 mm a year average though at those temperatures it would count as less than if the same amount fell in a cool climate. Parts of Essex have only about 520 mm a year but no-one would call it a desert, except culturally maybe. Woo! 'ark at 'im!
Rads
We have a rad that is temperamental and blackish water usually comes out when it is bled. To force the gunk out the whole system is having a power flush in the new year.
Has anyone else seen Casino Royale with Clive Owen? Took along my 12 year ld son and two of his mates last night. Really good (first "adult" film I've seen in ages) but one thing I did not understand was why the sea shell made him look at the messages on the mobile. Otherwise an enjoyable, very gritty, not indestructible bond.

Things that make me go GRRRRR! I put my hands up to having not to good grammar and punctuation but somethings even take the biscuit for me. There was a trailer far a new film with Will Smith The Pursuit of Happyness !!!Happyness!!! Happyness!! What the....?? perhaps it is a concept thing.

[Inkspot] "Happyness" sounds (or I should say reads) like what the inhabitants of Brave New World have, something you get from a pill. Does that fit with the trailer?
me, procrastinating? never...
[rab] Dunno, heating is ducted here. I kept the house at 18C through the winter; without heating it was usually around 12C inside during the day. You could try using fewer blankets (not trying to be facetious either: the tendency of some people here is to use a giant quilt whatever the weather, which I really don't get). Good luck.
[pen] Well done :)
[Rosie] For very thorough Aus. climate stats go to dubdubdub.bom.gov.au . Evaporation rates out at Burke are very high, though I don't know how they calculate it. It was 42° here yesterday and 22° today. This place is crazy.
[flerdle] Wrong bedroom - the boiler and first rad is in the room we use least, and in any case we don't have the heating on at night.

[Rosie] I'll take a look at the valves when the window people have done their last and I've moved all the clutter back from the rad end to the window end of the bedroom. There's no TRV (which I think makes sense, as the boiler thermostat's in the same room) but also no "on-off" tap either as far as I know. There does appear to be something that can be turned with a spanner, so maybe that's the one to look at...

TBH the quick fix is to sit in the spare room when we're feeling chilly, and the longer fix is to get TRVs fitted on the rads that don't have them, an external thermostat put in the hallway and a living flame fire in the hearth in the living room for the occasional extra blast the central heating isn't capable of delivering.

So while the new windows are great (or will be, once the final couple of panes are switched from single to double glazing), they have rather highlighted all the deficiencies in our central heating. Ho hum.

[rab]If there are just valves as described by Rosie our problem at the begining of winter was balancing the system. At the moment the heating is turned off each evening just after eight and an hour in the morning. After B Gas wanting to put up the direct debit again even that amout of heating is looking too much.
[Raak] It looks like the film about a single parent father down on his heels and homeless with a small son. The trailer shows him bumping into a Trader with a Ferrari, then his luck takes a turn for the worse. I have no idea how it ends but it is more than likely an unhealthy dose of Hollywood syrup. The possible moral being you can have hapiness and be poor, but for that extra happy factor ‘happyness’ you need to be successful,rich and fulfill the American dream.
the old more than one bedroom trick.
[rab] Ahh, ok.
Dryness
[Rosie] Yes, Bourke is after all an agricultural area of sorts and the average rainfall is around the 300mm mark. In the last 12 months (I just did a quick check with the local BOM) they have had roughly 107mm, twenty five of which landed on one day. Since the end of July they have received 11.2mm. That, I think, highlights the current problem - particularly when you relate it to flerdle's evaporation rate comment.
OZBOM
(flerdle, Duj) An excellent site which I have used for some time. I pop in most days to have a quick look at the S Hemisphere circulation and there is a lot else there too. Our own Drought Order has been rescinded at last not that it makes the slightest difference because I never water the garden or wash the car anyway, particularly in December of all months. I've had 86 mm so far this month, equal to my monthly average since I started in 1983.
Windows
They're done at last: see for yourself! (Pictures are clicky)
rab's views
Oooh - very swish. 'Though the pic of the window that swings open for cleaning made me recoil a little. Take care when weilding the Windolene!
Brighton Snibs
What a wonderful name for a gadget. And lovely windows :D
Incidentally, what is that Christmas ching song that goes "boo-doo-doo-doo-dum dum, boo-doo-doo-doo-dum dum, boo-doo-doo boo-doo-doo boo-di-doo-di-dooo" called? It's stuck in my head and I can't get rid of it.
Windows
[rab] View through: Somewhere in Scotland? Please excuse if you've said. Very nice job.
Who - do -do - doo -doo- doodoo- doodoo- Hitler
[rab] That rhythm brings to mind "Close Every Door To Me" from Joseph And The Amazing Technicolour Whatsit ... ... but I know it's not that really - 'cause it's not a Christmas song.
[rab] It's not In Dulci Jubilo, is it? As popularised by Mike Oldfield in the seventies.
[rab] Actually, on further inspection, it isn't.
Could you perhaps mark the barlines?
Irving Barlines
(Projoy) Must be at 1st and 2nd commas and just before first "di", assuming 4/4 swing, i.e. 12/8.
[Rosie, Projoy] 1st and 2nd commas, yes, and before the last "boo-di-dooo-di-dooo". There are some words that follow about "coming home for Christmas" and then "Ching ching ching ching ching | Ching ching chi-chi chung ching".

It's odd the Christmas songs that get played relentlessly in all pubs and shopping centres nationwide. None of them seem to be less than about 20 years old to achieve the right (or wrong) sort of Dickensian nostalgia - but what was in their place 20 years ago?

[SM] Oh yes, Edinburgh. The hills you can see are the Pentlands, and possibly the Braids.
Name That Tune
[rab] There's a Chris Rea song called "Driving Home For Christmas" which is played relentlessly around this time of year.
Stop!
I think that might be the bridge section in Jona Lewie's Stop the Cavalry. If played in C major, would it have this melody (where hyphens/equalses show beams on (semi)quavers): 2/4 | D=C=b=a g-g | D=C=b=a g-a=b | C D E=F-E | E=F=E=D E ?
s/Jona/Jonah
Bingo
That's it. Why on earth is it called "Stop the Cavalry"?
Halt!
Hey, Mr. Churchill comes over here
to say we're doing splendidly
But it's very cold out here in the snow,
marching to win from the enemy
Oh I say it's tough,I have had enough
Can you stop the cavalry?
I have had to fight, almost every night
down throughout these centuries
That is when I say, oh yes yet again
Can you stop the cavalry?
Mary Bradley waits at home
in the nuclear fall-out zone
Wish I could be dancing now
in the arms of the girl I love
s/Jonah/Jona
woohoo!!
I've just bought a pair of tickets to see Muse playing at the new Wembley Stadium in June :oD
Right
Well I'm off for few days tomorrow, and Andy's on his way to New Zealand so you can fully expect the site to fall over and not get rebooted until sometime next week. Take the opportunity to drink some more wine.

Happy.

Unknown hand
(rab) THe site did fall over last night but got up again. Hooray!
Back
Thanks for keeping an eye open. I guess Andy must have pressed the reset button in LA.
I like the idea of pressing the reset button in LA, turning it back into a civilised and agreeable small town.
Ctrl/Alt/Del
I have visited a number of places over the years where, failing friendly bombs, a Reset button would have been very appropriate. Brighton springs to mind....
Sussex reset
(Kim) On your way down there could you do Crawley? An amorphous blot. Is Brighton really all that bad? I haven't been there for a few years. The prime candidate must be Basingstoke, so they say.
Mornin' all
I have just made a new year resolution. Having just carted a 40Kg package of set-due-to-humidity-premixed-concrete from the workshop to the front of my premises (OK, it's a 1-in-4 slope about 50 or 60' long) and the concrete no doubt now includes a bit of water . . . yes, I'm rationalising . . . ) and dump it into a bin out the front, the lip of which is probablly 4'6" off the ground, I'm embarrassed. I needed the help of my super fit wife.
Exercise is what I need and will do. Probably, perhaps.
(Dujon) Forty kilos is a lot easier where you are than it is here because you're upside down, which must help.
Floating on air
[Rosie] You are, as usual, correct. That was the problem. I had to get the wife to hang off my ankles. Even though I've lived on the southern hemisphere for 50-odd years I still haven't got the hang of keeping my feet on the ground. Ah well, it's got to be better than living on the equator.
Australity and boreality
(Dujon) And the sun goes round the wrong way, and the weather charts are all arse-about-face and Christmas day's in the height of summer. If you came back here you'd be totally confused. Loads of rain here, BTW, 129 mm in December and some thunder earlier today, most unusual for this time of year here. I see that rather ominously your drought is set to continue due to El Niño.
Sounds like the cricketers can blame the whether, with no rain expected no chance of a draw in the last test, just a white wash.

First day back and up late after a half hour lie in. It all seems funny peculiar the roads in were as clear as a bell and the office is slightly muted.

[Duj] Apols for introducing a note of sense into the conversation, but fit or not, you should get help lifting something that heavy and that awkward to that height. If you got your muscles fit, then did your back in hefting something awkward, you'd really want to kick yourself. (Although again obviously it's better to get someone else to kick you instead.)
Sensibilites
[Rosie] How dare you! Australian bore indeed. ;-)
[SM] Yes, but too late. I did my back in years ago. The doctor's advice? "Give it some exercise". Hmmmm. Sounds like some sort of miracle cure for a broken arm: "Give it a bit of a bend each day". Of course he was right - as far as I know my problem is only muscular and not a spinal disc matter. Right, back to my sit-ups.
(Duj) Sorry, old bean, it was an occident.
Windows
[rab] Terrific pictures, and it looks like a nice place to... wait a minute... in the earlier picture that man across the road is arguing with his wife... then the sun is lower in the sky and you can see him carrying out a box... wait, he's looking up. He's seen me! He's coming across the road! Damn this wheelchair, if I try to get out he'll just catch me on the landing!
*Wonders if it's possible to go back in time and unkill the conversation*
*hears the conversation rustling a bit and realises it's not quite dead yet*
Just making sure it really is dead
<desperation>Whatever you've read in the papers no-one can possibly know whether 2007 will be the warmest year ever in the UK but globally it might well be so.</desperation>
B.S.F.
[rab] You'll be happy to know that your Windows page is already the number one Google result for a certain three word name for a thing what helps keep windows shut. (Don't want to name it here and skew the results the next time this page is spidered.)
Wow!
I hope that's what they are actually called - it's what it said on the quote, and the chap who measured up referred to them as such (I could hardly keep a straight face).

What on earth possessed you to look, anyway?

I guess I'm just kinky for ironmongery. Or brassmongery. Or whatever they monger to make these things. I thought it was an interesting fastener and I wondered if it was just a UK thing so I went looking around.
BSF
[Dan] Wouldn't it be more accurate to say this is the only site that calls them [the name that must not be mentioned]? Not trolling, but all the other hits I got in Google called them something slightly different (but with the same initials). By the way, I loved your "Rear Window" bit. It provided a moment of cheer in an otherwise lousy Friday.
[SM] It's possible that it's local dialect.
[rab] Good point. I am a long way from where I was brought up and occasionally, when I'm not concentrating or when I'm tired, say something "regional" that has people looking at me weirdly. I told some Canadians that I would "put the snack on" a Yale lock so they could come and go without a key. No-one understood what I was talking about.
I seem to have killed the conversation. Sorry rab.
Turning gently
Your mother is a big hippo.
Sierra Mike] It's always been a "sn*b" for me
Snacking on Snobs
I use 'sneck' or 'snyb'. Sneck is fairly normal Northern English as evidenced by this.
media frenzy
There has been a fair amount in the press and tv amout the goings on the the BB house. I feel part of the problem is that swathes society in Britain encouraged by the media has lost respect for itself and civility towards others. The mantra is ‘you are no better thatn me no matter who you are’ whether that is a doctor, priest, police, MP, prince or Queen. It is a matter of bringing everyone down to the tabloid level. Are those we are to look up to the highly paid footballer and their WAGs, the instant celeb or winning pop idol.Is it possible that headlines of cultural intolerance and ignorance really do reflect the essence large sections Britain today.
The behaviour in BB is what you'd expect from forcing pretty stupid, ignorant attention-seeking people together. Naturally they bring out the worst in each other. The racism, though we could certainly do without it, is fairly routine and widespread among certain types and makes one wonder what rarified parts of the atmosphere the media inhabit. There are pages about it today's Guardian, for instance. The more disturbing aspect of BB is that it is broadcast at all and is regarded as entertainment by large numbers. How edifying to watch dimwits getting on each others' tits! The participants abase themselves simply to be on TV but they shouldn't be exploited in this manner.
[Rosie] The first series of BB was interesting, IMHO, as the participants were derived of most luxuries. They never quite had enough alcohol to get drunk. They didn't have pencils or paper. They had no clocks. They really struggled to get by. Hence, it was fascinating to watch how people interacted when derived of so many things that they would normally use to pass the time. These days, it has become more of a circus, with the blame lying on the shoulders of the producers for promoting ratings-grabbers to enter the house, in the knowledge that their behaviour is likley to cause headline-making outrage.
The behaviour that I have (albeit very briefly) witnessed recently on BB is, as you say, the norm in a large sector of British society. That the media causes an outcry over it is utterly hypocritical (as ever); that people are shocked and outraged by it is merely bandwagon-jumping. What needs to be addressed is the fact that, presuming most people in the world are racist to an extent, placing remarkably dim people in an environment where they are going to expose their deepest "instincts" (not sure that's the right word) is irresponsible, particularly considering how sensitively balanced the world is at present with regard to extremism - on all sides. I'd love it if everyone just relaxed a bit, frankly.
(Phil) I'll go along with all of that except possibly your last sentence. If you mean we should stop pretending to be shocked by some of the behaviour then I agree wholeheartedly but I don't think we should be relaxed about allowing this stuff on TV, certainly in its present form. It's no better than bear-baiting or cock-fighting, i.e. a distasteful spectator sport. My own instinct is to say to the contestants "You're on telly. Stop behaving like a complete arse, even if you are one" but that's hopelessly old-fashioned.
For Jade Goody-Nude to get on Celebrity BB by having been on BB in the past says something about the show. Probably involving the words "vanishing" and "own *rsehole". How about Religious Big Brother, involving a Protestant, a Catholic, a Shia Moslem, a Sunni Moslem, an Orthodox Jew, a Reform Jew, a Dawkins-esque atheist, a Hindu, a Buddhist, a Rastafarian, and a Bahai?
Relax!
[Rosie] No, that's not what I meant at all, although I see how it looks like that. And I agree wholeheartedly with your bear-baiting analogy. What I meant was that if people such as Jade Goody relaxed a bit, she'd probably enjoy her life a lot more, and this whole issue wouldn't have arisen.
[Raak] Throw in a satanist, and you might be onto something :-)
quoted from BBC News...
"Goody insisted on the show that she 'didn't say Shilpa Poppadom in a racial way'".

So that's all right, then.
(Phil) Jade Goody, despite her wealth, has little to be relaxed about. She's from the bottom of the pile and knows it and this is her chance to get back at the world in general. There are many like her and the problem is exacerbated by our class-consciousness though ironically India, with its caste system, is probably even worse.
Not Goody Two shoes
I actually don't think that Stupid Jade is racist. I think she's just ignorant and a bully. Remember the first time she was on she didn't even know where Cambridge was and thought East Anglia was another country. She's picked on Shilpa cos she's pretty and an unknown quantity. Jade's head got far too big with fame and she wasn't clever enough to cope with it, and when she was insecure she attacked those outside her comfort zone.
Where will they be?
I sometimes wonder, "where will this person be when they're 60?" Jade Goody at 60...
Thinking also of "where are they now?", today I chanced across this picture, which looks like a very ordinary businessman or politician. I was quite startled to realise who it was. The URL gives a small clue.
That is a bit of a surprise. I had to Google for the picture to find out who it was, though!
[Raak, Darren] Was just reading his "dangerous idea" at Edge. Profound knowledge of the philosophical implications of quantum mechanics or windy hallucinogenic rhetoric?
[Projoy] The dangerous idea was asking him the question in the first place.
Well, who is it then?
[Rosie] I'm sorry, but due to the indeterminacy principle it's not possible to know the URL of his picture and his identity simultaneously.
Yeah, that picture startled me when I saw it a few years ago. It's a portrait for a board he sat on. He's always been something of a hero of mine. He's the one who's not Zappa. Or IS HE??? You can see him a little better in this. There's a story about how he turned up for his audition carrying his laundry, the idea being that as long as he was going out he might as well get his laundry done so it wouldn't be a wasted trip either way. The pragmatic insouciance of this apparently impressed the casting director quite a bit.
Oh, just found the "dangerous idea" on Edge. I'm half inclined to believe he's having them on -- it would be very like him -- but there's just enough consistent substance peeking out of it to make me wonder. Which, again, may be the idea.
(Projoy) It is now. This is very disturbing.
[Projoy] I incline towards either "windy rhetoric" or "leg-pull", especially compared with the other contributions there.
In fairness to others, here it is. It made more sense the second time I read it; at least think I saw about two thirds of what he was driving at. Unfortunately he tries to distill it down a little too far and leaves out about 90% of the exposition it would need to lift it out of Time Cube territory, with the result that it does read a bit like somebody trying to drag some subjectively experienced great insight back from an altered mental state by scribbling the key concepts on a notepad on the nightstand before the memory fades. I can't even say he's wrong, just that he doesn't really give you anything to analyze or dispute; he's reduced it to an overly simple set of vague declaratives, so even if you want to give him a hearing you just end up going, "um. Okay."
Scrolling down, I see that Laurence Krauss has a project for Darren:
The ultimate goal of physics, as it is often described, is to have a "theory of everything", in which all the fundamental laws that describe nature can neatly be written down on the front of a T-shirt (even if the T-shirt can only exist in 10 dimensions!).
ONe week later...
I'm mucking out the house today. How does it get so much stuff in it?
Stuff
The naughty stuff fairies cart it in in the middle of the night. If you make a present to them by leaving binbags full of stuff by the edge of the road once a week, you should find the amount of stuff eventually decreases.
(Raak) No, the foxes get it. So the fairies don't get their presents and just keep up the pressure.
[Irouléguy] I thought I'd posted this response immediately after your post, but still... when the physicists fulfil their part of the bargain, I'll do mine.
Darren] T-shirts seem to be real conversation killers.
*mimes t-shirt silence*
(pen) Now do it with the words.
and through the square window
Had a look around the Vista web pages last night and the Vista Advisor. It looks like it will not be a simple upgrade from XP. There are many programmes it highlights that there may be problems or issues with but has big problems with Realtek and Kaspersky virus, both need to be uninstalled then reinstalled after. Some of the things it has problems with came preloaded on the PC suprised there were so many. The promo on the site looks good but that is the top end version not the basic Home version, so will be waiting a bit before taking the plunge.
hmmmm
I think I am being constructively dismissed. I have taken legal advice. More on this later.
Bloody hell!
[pen] You're doing the right thing. Keep us posted, and good luck!
[Pen] Ouch! A horrid situation however it pans out. It's too long since I was a union convenor and kept up with employment law, but make sure you follow all the procedures properly yourself such as following up internal channels even if you know in advance it won't make any difference. You should also keep records of everything, including as verbatim as possible notes of conversations. Best of luck.
[pen] oo-er. Stay strong.
[pen] eek! what Chalky and INJ said.
[pen] EEk! Oh no! Good luck.
[pen] Just been reading around the subject and it sounds pretty f'king horrible. Sympathies.
[pen] Loads of sympathy and good luck.
[pen] What rab said.
pen] Good luck!
[pen]Good luck with the lawyers.
I'm not familiar with the term "Constructive Dismissal" so I looked it up. Am I to understand penelope is being harrassed by her supervisors to the point she will quit?

Regardless, please add my best wishes that things resolve well for you, penelope.
At the risk of interrupting something serious with frivolity, I am amused by the fact that on some paperwork we have, the cost of registering a marriage is quoted per person. One wonders how many marriages between one, three or seventeen people take place.
well...
After two conversations with a lawyer and some advice from my brother in law, three meetings, some steely bargaining (on my part) and a little compromise, I have a solution. For now. It's a big relief.
phew
[pen] Glad to hear it.

Here (AU), since last year, businesses with fewer than 100 employees (99% of public sector firms) are exempt from unfair dismissal laws, and those with over 100 employees are able to dismiss anyone any time if they claim that part of the reason for the dismissal was for the "operational requirements" of the business. Being sacked on the basis of race, sex, age, pregnancy or family responsibility is still technically illegal, but pretty easy to get around.

and
(actually, the "operational requirementes/reasons" clause is available for all sizes of employer)
[flerdle] Well thank goodness I live in a country where working for a small firm isn't a discrimination in itself.
[pen] Indeed.
[flerdle] Isn't it the same in some parts of the US? There was an early "King of the Hill" episode where Hank's company had trouble firing an employee for drug use because of a similar law. In the end, Hank resigned and then they were able to fire the addict because they had few enough employees to be exempt from the law.
I have no idea what the USA does, but our PM is the ... nevermind.

Another trick is to make all your employees "contractors", or keep them as a succession of short-term casuals. Then they don't count towards your total, and they aren't covered by the unfair dismissal laws anyway.

own up...
Right. I need to know. Who has stolen the snow I've been promised? On tuesday I defrosted my car four times!!! (00:10 leaving work, 11:00 leaving to get home from sleeping venue, 19:00 leaving for pub and 23:25 leaving cinema). Today I wake up and there's no frost or snow. Are you hoarding it down south? Give it a shove up Manchester way please.
[Lib] You're very welcome to have all mine. Unwanted gift. Buyer collects.
West Midlands weather update
Tons of the white stuff here guys. Enough to keep thousands of students amused, it seems.
I was supposed to be going to a meeting in Birmingham, but cancelled due to a wide range of boring reasons; quite glad I did now, cos I don't think I'd be getting back...
Snow
3" here this morning (Surrey/Gt London border, 600 ft). Rainfall equivalent 6.8 mm and a pain-in-the-arse to measure because some of it sticks in the gauge funnel and has to be melted (saucepan on the gas stove) without evaporating too much of it. It's now raining, making millions of pinholes in what's left of the snow. Tremendous excitement on the uk.sci.weather newsgroup, which has a number of semi-literate snow freaks. Definately. Its the tempreture anomoly. there saddo's.
uk.sci.weather
[Rosie] I read that as uk.ski.weather. Time I was on the piste.
[Projoy] Thanks for the offer, but I was kinda hoping someone would bring it to my.
To my? what am I going on about? To me, I mean.
White stuff
I was wondering how you were all coping, particularly those of you south of Watford Pass. The BBC was reporting that the country was grinding to a standstill. 4" (max) brings the whole country to a shuddering halt? I'm . . . well . . . gobsmacked. Surely that must be journalistic hyperbole?
col
How about Watford Gap then?
(Dujon) Watford Gap is not a gap, pass, col, gorge or anything so dramatic. It's just another dreary motorway service station about 80 miles NW of London, in pretty flat country. It's nowhere near Watford, which is on the NW edge of London. The original phrase used contemptuously by Londoners to denote provinciality was "North of Watford", ie outside London, and in particular to the north of it. When Watford Gap service station on the M1 was built people started talking about "north of Watford Gap" thus changing the meaning, then it became "north of the Watford Gap", which ain't there, as I said. This is how place-names and language in general changes; misunderstanding by stupid people. One reason the country grinds to a halt is that many roads are at full capacity, more or less, which means that the slightest hazard slows everything down and in no time at all the whole thing congeals. Another reason is that we are now the soppiest country in the world.
Watford Gap
Actually, as Herr Bratsche pointed out when this last arose about 5 years ago, there is a geographical significance to Watford Gap as the attached map shows. Within about 400 metres you have a railway line, a roman road (Watling Street - now the A5), and a canal all passing through the same minor low point. The motorway just follows the rest, showing that the romans knew a thing or two about roads. When you drive through on the motorway the surrounding geography is not evident.
The forecast last night was for a dollop of fog, but it is snowing again here in SN4.
What gap?
[INJ] Ah - seem to remember my late father saying as much way back in the 60s when we travelled north regularly, so thanks for that map ref for Watford Gap. I would so hate to be one of Rosie's 'stupid people' who misunderstand the term :-)
Watford Gap
Isn't Watford Gap next door to Watford H&M?
(Chalky) Heaven forbid, m'dear. But somebody started it. (Inkspot) A bit more to come, mostly sleet. Then milder. Nothing here in CR6.
Errors of ways
Thanks for setting me straight, good people, your points have been noted. Any road, I know now that I'm one of them 'stupid people'. It's ever so nice to keep track of your station in life. I'm sure that my to-ing and fro-ing would be easier if I had a good staff but continual ups and downs and constant changes confuse me no end. One of my relatives keeps telling me "get a grip, Dujon". To that end I have bought myself a sand box. If it doesn't work as planned then at least I can stick my head in it.
[Duj the not-so-stupid] So what is the real purpose of a sand box?
Technicalities
[Chalky] 'Morning.
The 'sand box', and I'm sure that Rosie and others can explain it better than I, is a box full of sand or grit of some kind or other. In olden days steam engines used the contents of such, as and when necessary, to increase the friction between wheels and rails. This was effected by dribbling the contents of the sand box onto the rails in front or over the driving wheels. Naturally (and obviously) you are far too young to have seen or heard this highly technological process in action.
I'll tell you the real purpose later. As a clue: Have you ever owned a cat?
(Dujon) Ah! Things are now clearer because I didn't know you drove a steam engine. Even I don't do that. Sand is useful and may have prevented this, the slip to end all slips. Click on the bottom recording, marked "60532". The quality is rather poor. The loco slips a bit on starting (quite usual) but the mayhem begins after 1m 50s. After another 15 seconds or so you can hear the water being carried over to the cylinders, which caused the real damage. All 3 connecting rods and the coupling rods and valve gear were bent so that was the end of that little day out. Why didn't the driver just shut off steam? He couldn't. The big handle wouldn't move against the huge volume of steam and water going through the main valve. He had about one second and missed it. No more driving for him, at least of that loco, which cost £80,000 to repair.
Patience
At the risk of seeming insensitive given pen's recent difficulties, I've finally been offered a permanent position at Edinburgh Uni. Woo!

A bit of a long and torturous story this one... back in July, I was offered a similar position in Manchester, but there were various reasons why we didn't want to move back then - not least the fact that we'd bought a flat in Edinburgh exactly one week previously. Turning that offer down was one of the trickiest decisions I'd ever made. Anyway, the gamble paid off in the end, and I'm now very relieved and pleased.

[Rosie] That was an interesting sound recording. I don't really know all that much about steam engines (I had to look up what water being carried over to the cylinders meant) but it's quite an impressive sound. Were you actually present when it happened?
Hurrah!
[rab] excellent - good news, congratualtions. And I'm fine - I got offered less money for working to a higher target, but with bigger bonuses than I was on before once I got beyond the target. And it was done without consultation, that was all... I could have sued, I was told, but I think it would look dreadful on a CV. And I will change, eventually, but I will leap, I will not be pushed. And I have a hot date tonight so frankly, i don't care any more. :o)
Congratulations rab! And to pen, if that's a sufficiently positive outcome to warrant it. Did you get them to make things better than they were trying to?
[Rosie] Thanks for the link. The sounds bring back a few memories. £80,000! The mind boggles. I used to be a keen 'train spotter' as a youngster but the interest waned when girls and cars came along. I had a relative who was a signalman. Occasionally my elder brother and myself would visit him at work in his signal box. Exciting times for a lad.
[rab and penelope] Congratulations on your results. Great news.
(Darren) There's only about a quarter of an inch clearance when the piston is right at the end of its stroke and any excess water either knocks the cylinder cover off or bends the connecting rod. Major damage. There are drain cocks which are often opened for the first few puffs when an engine starts out and they blow huge quantities of wet steam ahead of the engine, ruining photos but very necessary. I wasn't there for that recording. I've seen loads of engines slipping on starting but quickly brought under control. It's a rather fearsome sound for a small boy a few feet away on the end of a platform, or for anyone, come to that. (pen) If you're happy so am I. Nothing worse than work worries even they are now behind me.
(Dujon) The wheels only stopped spinning because the valve gear got bent and no longer allowed steam into the cylinders at the right time, rather like a car with a bent camshaft. Interesting that right at the end of the recording the safety valves lift. I'm surprised there was any fire left given the tremendous pull of the exhaust on it. What a mess! I gave up collecting numbers very early but have never lost interest, you could say, but as you imply, there is much else in life.
The juice
When is a power cut not a power cut? When they restore the connection at about half the normal voltage. Very dim orangey lights, computer won't start (but monitor OK), TV but no video, kettle wouldn't boil ether let alone water, old Acorn computer OK but not the monitor, strangely. They'd got the full voltage next door but Mrs-next-door-but-one (in her curlers) had the same problem as had an old lady walking her dog. Obviously one of the phases was faulty but I thought you got the full whack or nothing. It seems you may not.
long absence
Hello, all. Some of you may remember me from long ago, on other servers. A strange thing happened recently. I discovered that, having moved from Sydney to Edinburgh, and not having played MC for years on account of a Thesis, I happened by complete accident to end up working down the corridor from rab. What do you know? Well, probably that MC is responsible for effects that are not quite normal, for one.
Oddness
...and when "kt" appeared I had this very odd feeling that we'd met before (although it was only virtually, and - I think - under a different moniker). Anyhoo, welcome back!
I recognize that moniker
[kt] Welcome back.
[kt] Hello, I'd wondered where you'd gotten to (having met you in Sydney, if you're who I think you are!). Enjoy Edinburgh!

[Rosie] It used to happen all the time in India (and probably still does). Just shrug and say "Volt is down" like the locals did.

[Rosie] The phenomenon is referred to as a 'brown out' - at least here it is. The description is obvious when you think about the affect on your light globes. In the last house I owned I had two phases connected and, on a number of occasions, could have full voltage and current available on some internal circuits and not on others. This of course also applied to total power cuts where only one phase was down. The reason for the variation in equipment functions is simply that some items will run on a range of, say, 180 volts to 260 volts while others need the full pressure (usually 230V +).
(flerdle) It's the first time I've ever seen it, and there were power cuts galore when I was a small child (say late 40's). The voltage here is allowed by statute to vary 10% (up 4 and down 6) but this was down 50%, at a guess. (Dujon) Can't be that, because everyone here is on single phase except industrial premises which have all 3. There were 2 more cuts early this evening. When the first (over an hour) ended it came back on (full voltage) for less than a minute, just enough time to put the candles out before going off again for another 40 minutes or so. Loud, pointed and profane were my exclamations to no-one in particular.
ex-kt
[rab] That's right, I'd forgotten that I changed from kt to Kathryn. That's how long ago it was.
Hi, flerdle! Sorry I dropped out of contact for a while there. Are you still in the middle east? Edinburgh's rather nice, actually, with more sun than I had imagined.
And hello Simons Mith also. It's amazing how stable the MC community is...
[kathryn] Welcome back - I'm an irregular visitor myself these days.
doin' the continental shuffle
[kathryn] No, am now in Melbourne, and thesising too, fool that I am. But Melbourne is very pleasant.
Thesis mightier than the sword
Incredible the %age of MCers who have done or are doing theses. I have no plans to go within a million miles of one meself, but have a lot of respect for those who have the inclination.
Stability
(kathryn) Collectively, maybe.
[ISP] Ten years after my undergrad degree, I'm doing an MA. Think I might be ready to do the big one in another ten years! :)
Education Education Education
[Projoy] Well, I worked five years between school and Uni, then another eight between BA and MSc, now I'm (avoiding) studying for my Oracle exams. Doing very well - been avoiding studying for two and a half years and counting.
Wibble flib
Stable?? Us?
Hmm... I waited ten years between under-gradding and post-gradding, and have now resolved to study nothing but happy things that interest me, which is mostly food, conservation, art and historical stuff, not science or authoring. If all goes to plan, I'm off to Rotterdam next month to work for a day on a conserved windmill. And also to see a very nice man who happens to be the Miller. :o)
Well then, enjoy your Miller time :-)
[Rosie] Dad was an industrial electronics guru during that period. The reason for the power cuts was to avoid brown outs according to him. The national grid had been so badly compromised during WWII that power was in short supply. It was deemed safer to cut the power altogether than tolerate a severe voltage drop. They used to sound sirens around ten minutes before the power cuts in the local factories apparently, so that the machine shops could shut down gracefully. The good old days.
[blamelewis] hello!
[flerdle] Melbourne is indeed pleasant, despite lacking a proper harbour.
[ISP] There may well be a connection between people who put themselves through a thesis and people who take pleasure in playing a game like MC. An unusual relationship with reality could well be one of them.
[pen] How about the science of food (e.g. courtesy of Harold McGee)? That's definitely a happy thing!
[penelope] Watch out for clog-wearing mice in that windmill. The staircases are infested with them from all accounts.
post-grad? sounds hard to me
I did have a plan last year to take an A-level every year for the next ten years. I think I've missed the deadline to enter for French this year, so maybe I'll start the mission next year and do two (to catch up). The plan is that if someone says to my daughter when she's 18, "oh, I've got 7 A-levels", she can reply, "well, my dad's got 14." The only extra proviso for this is that I don't attend any lessons/lectures in order to gain the qualifications - I'll rely on reading what the syllabus is, and a bit of common sense in terms of background reading. And, yes I've checked, there are still exam boards that do not require coursework :-)
The juice
(SM) Mine must have been a purely local problem due to malfunctioning switches or transformers and not insufficient supply. This was just one phase down or out over about a square mile.
clogged up
[Sierra Mike] I have my own clogs for stamping on said mice - they came as a present from the Miller last weekend. Luckily they were filled with chocolate as a sweetener...
Miller
Hope there's good ventilation, in case he's Windy.
yes, yes, I know...
[IS,P!] Hmmph. He's a Dutch Miller. Have you got a pic of one of those?
[pen] He's a film star? Seems a little on the old side for you, mind.
[Darren] Still, he does well, considering he died 15 years ago.
I thought he seemed a bit quiet. Just my luck :o(
HELLO MORNIVERSE! I'M NIGHTS BLESSED!
AND I'VE SCARED EVERYONE OFF, IT SEEMS! CHORTLE CHORTLE!
not me
Hello nights. It takes a bit more than emboldened shouting to scare me off! How are you? I've got a post holiday cold. Grump.
Where is everyone today? Not very chatty? Cheer up. Its almost the weekend!
Nothing at all
Hello all. It's a long time since I've been in here. Very smart.
Mouth full
Sorry Lib - I was enjoying a bacon sandwich...
[UK] I'd have thought you'd have a bit of a sore head!
[Lib] Well, fortunately it hadn't been cooked too fiercely. But getting the grease out of my hair is going to be a bind...
It doesn't matter how sh*tty the week has been , Friday always lifts the mood, doesn't it? Anyone know of any nice jobs going for someone bossy, intelligent and good at news writing? CV available on request. And The Dutch Miller is coming over again next weekend, :o)
Oh, and a lovely bit of spamming, which is a natural glow-worm or something: "ON fenugreek do maladroit.."
[pen] I think the next line is "beware the Jabberwock, my son!"
Morniverse seems slow today, or am I just toooooooo bored at work?
(UK) Not just today, either. The place seems infected with a kind of ennui. It'll pass, no doubt.
[Rosie] Well, I was hoping that someone might guess my AVMA before I left the office today, as I may well not be back online until Monday morning.
It's always very slow on Fridays. In fact I recall it being even less busy last Friday. Not that I check in here obsessively the whole time, of course.
Saturday was a non-starter.
There was an article in the paper a day or two ago about how boring and irksome working life has become even for people in well-paid professional jobs, what with vast amounts of form-filling and other pointless paperwork, meetings, meetings about meetings etc, etc. The way this place livens up during working hours shows how true that is.
working time directive
The local authority I (used to) work for transferred our dept to Capita at the begining of Feb. I have had to drastically cut back to a minimum amount of browsing during work time. Before there was a woolly policy about internet use. However, my new employer begins their internet use and email policy with the phrase "You have no right to privacy"
I'm glad that my Brian Blessed impression didn't freak EVERYONE out. I'm well, thanks. Final semester. Argh. And I've been getting some lovely poetry in my spam too. But even better is the amount of recipes I get for Spam, being a GMail user.
Crapita
(Inkspot) In that case don't do any more work than you absolutely have to. I hope at least you've retained your salary level.
MCIOS went down at 2.54 am today.
For about 5 minutes. You'd think a guy could take a server down for maintenance at 3 am in the user base's time zone.
FWIW, the timestamps on old moves from the first half of 1998 are now correct.
(Dan) Thanks for your efforts, as ever. Like Michael Howard, I am a creature of the night.
Harrumph
No problem, I didn't mean it the way it probably sounded. Anyway I've just noticed that this so-called asiago cheese I've been munching on was made in Wisconsin. Now a bit of research shows that asiago is Denominazione di Origine Protetta, so they shouldn't be calling it that and I'd be surprised if they could even sell it in the EU under that name. Still, it's a good cheese, but now I have to go and find the real thing so I know the difference.
BTW, I'm off to New Mexico for a week, so this may be the last you hear from me till next Monday. The server will almost surely fall over in about 2-3 hours time. Expect reboots only during office hours in New Zealand. ttfn.
Read on its own, that last message really really looks like rab's part of some international espionage.
[Tuj] What? You mean you're not... one of us?
SHHH!
It is very dark for the time of year.
Incidentally, I'm staying in room 404 which I'm having difficulty locating, for some reason.
[rab] Have you tried leaving the hotel and then coming back in again?
[rab] or trying an alternative door?
[Rab] Clear out all your cash, I guess in the hotel bar...
8 words game
I tried to translate Nights' post with an online translat-y-thing and it came up with "Ave druse! I ÷óñòâóþ as i no clever"
...although ÷óñòâóþ was actually an untranslated russian word, not nonsense.
That's actually pretty close to the mark. It reads "Hello friends! I rather think I'm not clever."
As indeed I appear not to be. Plans for the weekend, anyone?
I'm going to a masquerade ball! Very exciting. What are you up to?
Doing a workshop with actors, for which the freshly-written script still hasn't arrived from the States as yet! Also, writing a sample song from Lolita! - the musical as a college exercise.
Weekend plans
Working. What else? Not getting enough done, though. :-(
doing absolutely nothing
.. well - nothing worth mentioning. It's kinda nice. :-)
housework until this evening, then I shall be waiting for a certain Dutch Windy Miller to step off the plane :o)
My weekend is taken up with work - beer festival time again, this time only 16 beers, but plent y flive music keeping us entertained. Dunnno how I'm going to get up for 6am delivery tomorrow morning, but i'll cross that bridge later. For now,I need to write a quiz by 9pm.
I spent most of the weekend travelling. Have no idea what timezone I'm in again. However I'm not really complaining. Did I tell you about the place they put us up?
[rab] New elopement menu?
I spent the weekend in the library, emerging only on Saturday night to get extremely drunk extremely quickly. It's coursework season in sunny Bath, and we are all working hard to meet arbitrary deadlines, smoking for all we're worth and drinking ourselves into the ground every Saturday night in a vain attempt to flee the horrific situation we find ourselves in once again. Also, why does everyone else in this library, all five floors of it, seem to be a complete idiot? Just asking. Is Library Rage something admissible in court?

I think I'm a bit depressed.
[IS,P!] Yes, that sounds like just the thing that Niall would think of.
Pardon me, unplanned outage at mcios. I called the data center about another issue and they asked me if it was okay to physically move the server, and I told them to go ahead. It will, I hope, be out for less than an hour.
(Dan) It was alright at midnight (GMT). Thanks again.
[Rosie] Who's GMT?
I am.
[GMT] Do you have the time?
As it happens, I may well have ..
Leaning
Well, I've got the inclination...
[GMT] Not for much longer!
It's just struck me that as a Mornington Crescent server, we have no game of MC running. Anyone interested? I'd like to give the new 2007 ruleset a go as it's shortly to be published...
2007beta
[nights] Blimey, that's a bit radical, innit? MC on an MC website? Not sure I can cope. Besides, I've barely got used to HP2000. Do they think they've sorted the new version's DRM issues now, eh?
[SM] Last I heard, most of the national MC bodies had ratified it, with the exceptions of Monaco and East Cornwall. And I think the DRM nightmare will be with us for a while - last I heard, they were trying to make sure you only striled three times, then all your podumes would be deleted without warning. Perhaps better to wait a bit, hm?
Three striles and you're out
All your podume are belong to us.
shiny new things
I'd play the 2007 ruleset. Though my copy hasn't arrived from Amazon so I may make some bad moves (but I'm no stranger to that to be honest!).
Mornington Crescent on the front cover of The Times today (somewhat gratuitously).
Aigh!!
Where is MCiOS?? Or rather, where are all the games? The archive is also empty. I tried to create a new game and got Giant Ant Error. Is it time to panic??
It was there before 9.00AM this morning then it suddenly disappeared in the middle of my move! I guess its been hacked again.
MCiOS
Bloody hell! If anyone's got Dan's e-mail, give him a shout, quick!
MCiOS
It has rather shrunk.. I hope the games haven't been lost!
I've sent Dan a message about it already. 9:30 am in London is 2:30 am in Portland though, so I don't suppose he's up and about.
Yes, the middle of the night problem. We'll just have to wait. Hope it's ok...
MC in The Times
[Tuj] Did you guess the ruleset?
[Kim] No, do tell ;)
Ah. Very odd. I'll take a look.
Well done, Dan - no idea what you did, but you fixed it! :-)
It may be a serious problem. Stay tuned.
It's not behaving very well. I've asked the crew at the facility to cycle the power. I have last night's nightly backup here -- it's automatically fetched on a schedule, so nothing will be lost. But as I say, there may be a hardware problem so things might be iffy for a while.
Okay, it's going to be out of service for a while, as in multiple days, I think. I'm going to need to reconfigure my mail to point somewhere else, too. Very annoying.
(thank you, rab, for allowing me to use your server as a bulletin board.)
[Dan] Nae worries. As you know, I've hardware problems of my own.
BTW if anyone wants to email me -- though I'll be pointing my usual email at another server within a day or so -- there's always my last name at gmail dot com. Normally I don't check it very often but I'm using it now.
Get Well Soon MCiOS!
MCiOS thanks you. It would only take a moment to restart it at my home server and point the domain name at it (though it'd be a day or so before that change propagated through the intarweb), but the site gets a LOT of hits, including various kinds of attacks, and it would be a bad idea to inflict that on my home router for several reasons. Anyway, I'm going to have the machine professionally serviced, which will probably bring us into next week. This feels weird. It hasn't been down for more than a few hours since I launched it. I may give up on this colocation lark and go back to a virtual server of some kind; there are better and easier options for rapid failover when you do it that way.
[Dan] Indeed, there can't have been many days since last century when I didn't at least check in and look around at MCiOS. Still, I'm viewing it as a test of character!
Yeah, I still find myself typing "p" into the address bar as a shortcut to MCiOS. ("d" goes to Orange, "r" goes to here. Obvious reasons. But I'm so used to those shortcuts, if I use another computer it knocks me sideways for a minute.)
[Darren] Same with me! Except I use "pa", "du" and "ra".
shortcuts
How do you do that then? I just got 'em in me favourites.
shortcuts
Sounds like do-re-mi.
Do-re-mi
Nono, do is domaintools.com, re is resource-zone.com and mi is usually nothing, but right now it's mikael.jansson.be/rydis.html.
That's got to be an application for Web 3.0. Opening a webpage by whistling a merry tune.
Sign
Another reboot required this morning. I shall try and move to a different host this week.
I thought I couldn't get in last night.
The Tube
For those who are able to access it - tonight [Sunday] sees a series of programmes on BBC TV 4 beginning at 2100, which are all related to the London Underground. Includes the 'Design Classics' prog about the LU map.
[rab] With server farms you tend to get what you pay for -- decent reliable dedicated servers run at least a hundred a month in dollars and not very much less in pounds. If you want to pay a lot less than that and want top quality hardware and good service, you might consider a Xen host instead. The decent providers use very good hardware and they maintain it with a lot of care because if it goes down, more customers are affected than just you. And you can't tell the difference in terms of availability and performance; if anything it'll be much better than a cheap colo because most of the time the (often very muscular) CPU is way underutilized. You never get less than the share you're paying for and more often than not you get much more when you need it. And it's spectacularly easy to fail over to another machine -- a good provider will be able to switch you to new hardware in a matter of minutes if smoke starts pouring out of the box you're on. Frankly I'm seriously considering going back to that my self, mainly for that last reason.
Some links
xensource's list and hostingfu's. Both list UK providers, though you have to scroll down to find them in the latter.
Oh, for three years I ran mcios and several other sites, both http and https, an SMTP server, a jabber server with several transports, mysql, pop3 and imap, the homebrew chat server of course and a variety of other services that came and went over the years ... all in 64MB instance of User Mode Linux; a poor man's Xen. It was a little swappy but completely responsive and reliable. It was on good hardware though. A 256M Xen host would be an Aston Martin by comparison.
[Dan] Thanks for that - I was considering a 128MB Xen Vps but was slightly concerned it might not be up to the job of serving this site, which gets something like 5k hits a day.
[rab] How about hosting in Edinburgh? Though you'd probably want to traceroute them to find out if it's really close to you in terms of network hops; I'm three miles but 12 hops and 85ms from mine because of a lack of local peering between carriers, but your situation is likely to be different. Very low latency could be handy for maintenance; you could just mount drives remotely.
(Though it's not clear from their site that they offer Xen in their Embra facility, you'd have to phone to find out. And I'm not vouching for them as a provider -- I know nothing about them.)
[Dan] That company was on my shortlist of two. Haven't got round to emailing them yet, but I'll ask if they host Xen in (or, if my hunch as to the actual location is correct, near) Edinburgh.
128 should be fine. I run an identical setup at home on 128MB Xen server, and by far the biggest memory hog is mysql. Here's the memory footprint, 12 days since the last reboot:

dan@flint:~$ free total used free shared buffers cached
Mem: 131252 110836 20416 0 4632 38480
-/+ buffers/cache: 67724 63528
Swap: 131064 2228 128836

Those are pretty healthy numbers -- just enough swapping to indicate that it doesn't have more memory than it needs, without being significant.

Yikes, looks like you're discarding newlines. Okay, look in the chat game on mcios.
Whoops, had forgotten there would be instances where white-space would be significant. Hmm, looks like I need a PRE-tag handler.
But thanks for that info - as you (probably) know this thing hangs off a mysql database and although I've tried to minimise the number of queries needed to display any particular page, when it comes down to it you've still got to through a few Mb of tables around.
s/through/throw/. Another thing I want to add is a "whoops" feature that lets you correct typos in your previous move.
Typos
The Banter Page (this page) is wider than the others at the moment, so I have to scroll right to get to the 'up' and 'next' options.
Although it might revert when Dan's post has disappeared offscreen.
Ah, it doesn't do that on Firefox.
I wouldn't object if you modified or replaced it.
BTW, the web host for xtrahost.net appears to be located in the Scotland facility, if node names are anything to go by. I'd be tempted to relocate there myself and damn the exchange rate, but unfortunately I get 160ms ping times to it from my colo and 200ms from my home. That's fine for web stuff but I'd be unhappy with shell access and any other activity involving lots of small round trips.
Not to beat it to death but according to their FAQ the Xen hosting in Scolocate, which according to Google maps is within a reasonable definition of Edinburgh; perhaps 5 miles from the big rock with the funny house on top.
I'll get onto it - work's been a bit crazy today, but this machine just dropped off the internet completely for a bit - was a bit worried cos I'd be poking around with some of the security settings earlier and thought it had been a hack. Ho hum, we all still seem to be here, and the mysql tables are all still up and running.
Geil!
The Gyle, eh? Who'da thought it. A bit closer than Bush, which was guess #1. Definitely worth looking into!
Right
A VPS has been ordered, although I managed to lock myself out of my own online banking service in the process... Anyway, it should be with us over the next few days, so I hope to be able to migrate in the next week or so. Which is just as well, cos this machine needed another reboot last night. And my internet at home has stopped working, which is the next thing to try and sort out.
It's arrived... installing stuff as we speak, but since my internet at home seems to be fubar it'll probably take longer to get sorted than it would normally.
rab's computer woes
VPS? I'm trying to follow this talk of hosting and hardware because I would like to understand how it all goes together, but it's mostly greek to me unfortunately. I read it that the computer that this site is kept on is playing up and so a new one is needed. If you've a mind to explain, rab, I'd love to know whether you own the faulty computer or lease space on someone else's? Please excuse any howlers caused by my ignorance of the technology behind the web.
Also, please excuse howlers caused by my inability to proof read my own punctuation. Sorry.
Tis ok. This should probably all be in 'Let me check my notes' but it seems appropriate here as this will be the last post before shutting down to move elsewhere.

The hosting of this site has a long and chequered history, mostly due to my trying to do it as cheaply as possible. It started off in a user account on a shared linux machine, rented out at 30quid a year. It got hacked into about three times, and the whole thing demolished, which led to downtime and me having to spend a lot of time reconstructing from various "back-ups", including (on one memorable occasion) the Google cache. After the third of these incidents, Nik kindly stepped in and offered - free of charge - disk space and bandwidth on a linux box sitting in his front room and running on his DSL connection, and there things ran happily for a while. But it was not to be forever, and (for various reasons) a new home was needed.

At this time, my good friend Andy informed me he had bought a dedicated server - cheap because it was on old hardware. At the time we thought that old would just mean slow, but the fact that it needs rebooting twice a week indicates that old means crap. We've been trying to get it sorted out, but Andy's been migrating to VPSes, and I was looking into it when Dan gave me the filip I needed to sort it out once and for all.

And with that, I shall begin the process of moving this to there. It should be working in an hour or so - but you may not see it for a couple of days because the DNS will have to propagate. I also won't be on hand over the weekend to sort out any problems because there's a fault on my broadband line and BT are coming round on Monday to look at (and hopefully fix) it.

And here we are...
Who knows if this works or not.
Are we there yet?
good luck - and thanks with all efforts, rab. I shall be migrating to south Holland this weekend, to clean the windows of a windmill and to spend some time with my lovely Dutchman, so I\\\'ll be back on Monday too :o)
Ah, the slassher\'s back
Bani'shed?
Yay! I always forget about that little gotcha. And penelope - congratulations on being the first to see the new place - some people might not get in for a couple of days.
[rab] Thanks, as ever.
[pen] This Dutchman is starting to sound serious...
Heard the one about the windmill?
[Cdm] Yes, he is. Do you know any rib-cracking windmill-based jokes that might make him smile a bit more?
Why to windmills make the best shops? Because they've always got a sail on.
[pen] I hope you get a bunch of flours.
(pen) Don't know any windmill jokes but you could try call him clever clogs. Is he called Wim? One scours the place for names like that. ATB, BTW.
Marvellous
This place is still up and running.
rab the genius
A most wonderful migration, one can hardly see the join. Well done, rab!
[Darren, Projoy] Good efforts.
[Rosie] Nope, he's called Jan - equally typical. I think 'Clever Clogs' is a mainly British expression, innit? He actually brought me klompen the first time he visited. They're unfortunately too big, and might go on ebay next week!;o)
[rab] Thanks for a quick flit. I can see the new place from this part of .ac.uk now.
[rab] Hadn't even noticed the change! Guess that's good praise.
Wow. It's fewer network hops from my house to here than it is to my server. A lot fewer. Farther in terms of latency though, geography won't be completely ignored. And the fact that the route from my house to my server has to go through Los Angeles and San Francisco for what I'm sure are not very good reasons has a lot to do with it. [rab] Out of curiosity, what sort of ping times are you getting?
(pen) I suspect "clever clogs" is simply light-hearted British alliteration but the Dutch are so good at English he might even geddit. (rab) I'm with Tuj, q.v.
I'm finding the site a lot more responsive now.
[Projoy] There was a slow period this morning but that doesn't seem to have happened again since - suspect someone else on the machine was using the CPU time.

[Dan] Ping time from JANET is about 24ms, not sure if that's good or bad. It's a direct hop from JANET to the xtrahost network, but this seems to take place in London rather than Edinburgh... so there you go.

[rab] pssht. 24ms is less than the distance to my DSLAM from my router. (Which I really, really don't understand.) Good enough for pretty much anything. Though I imagine in the UK low latency is probably fairly normal.
[Dan] I am quoting the right figure: "64 bytes from rab.org.uk: icmp_seq=0 ttl=54 time=24.1ms"? www.google.com comes in at about 21.6ms, and www.bbc.co.uk at 11.0ms by the same measure.
[rab] Yep. Pity you don't have local peering, but that looks more than good enough. You'll have to check from home as well, if that's where you do your maintenance. I'm really jealous. Xtrahost looks great. They even have an SLA, which a lot of consumer-level VPS providers don't.

Anyway, I'm more than persuaded that virtualization is the coming thing. The idea of a server being physically implemented on a corresponding hunk of hardware already seems a little quaint. The amount of versatility and control you get from decoupling those concepts and essentially commoditizing CPU and memory along with bandwidth and storage is almost inarguably compelling. MS is putting up a fight as they always do when a shift occurs that challenges their business model. It's amazing to me that they stay in business when every good thing that happens is a threat to them rather than an opportunity.

(Though it must be said that a 99.9% uptime service level agreement means they're allowed to be down for 8 hours a year, which some categories of business would consider unacceptable. Still, it's much better than you or I have managed lately.) (And god, how I love Google sometimes. I just typed "0.1 % in hours per year" into the search field and up it comes.)
[Dan] I like the fact you can do things like "Current local time in New Zealand" too.
Well, the last place was down for 8 hours a week so 8 hours a year should be at least a 12-fold improvement. I'm not getting too excited about these people yet - all my previous providers (bar Nik) had certain shortcomings. But I was very impressed with the quick set-up (within an hour of my funds hitting their account) and am comforted by the fact that it's not infeasible to pop round and speak to them in person if things go horribly wrong.
rab] Congratulations!
downtime
I was disappointed to read that SABRE (the global airline res. system) is to be taken off mainframes running TPF. They used to quote ridiculous donwtime costs (something like USD1m per minute), due to the fact that they handled up to 9000 transactions per second. They're porting the system to Compaq NonStop, of which I (currently) know nothing, but I'll be looking into it. A few thousand TPF apps and ops programmers could be re-training in a few year, methinks.
Happy BST!
Hmm, PHP doesn't seem to have realised.
Or, indeed,
most of the rest of the system. Pah!
A Technical Quandary
Dear technically minded denziens of the Morniverse:

I am having hard disk space problems. I'm aware that I should get rid of some crap, which I fully intend to do. However, I'd love to be able to see how much space each folder takes up, at a glance, so I know which programs are more space-hungry and therefore which I can stand to lose.

My question is this: is there such a program, freely available, that you know of that might let me do this? I'd be deeply grateful to anyone that might point me in the right direction.

Sincerely,

Disgusted of Tunbridge Wel- I mean, nights. (crossposted to MCiOS and Orange, apologies)
Very odd
Last week my modem kept dropping out, so I phoned my ISP and, after I did a basic check of my kit, they arranged for BT to do a test. Then, over the weekend, the line sprang back into action, and has been working fine since. The BT engineer came in this morning, did all his tests, and said "your connection doesn't get any better than this" (it's a 480m round-trip to the exchange!). So I wonder what went wrong in the first place... probably the weather.
down for 8 hours a week so 8 hours a year should be at least a 12-fold improvement
[rab] A twelve week year? I wish I had your job.
[IS,P rab] But it's a 32 day week.

And still only one Saturday and Sunday.

[IS,P!] Just checking you were listening, err.
Let me tell you something...
Well, as no-one has commented for a while, I'll tell you something. I have negotiated with my boss to be made redundant - it has been a little unpleasant through the recent 'difficulties', but I'm relieved to be moving on and am waiting to hear what he can offer me, bearing in mind I still have grounds for a constructive dismissal case. To be honest, trading conditions have changed and he should have spotted this a while ago. And I'm going to go and buy myself a car tomorrow as I'll have to give mine back. I have a second interview for a rather interesting job next Wednesday, the inklings of a few freelance jobs taking shape, and a mild feeling of pure terror about not having more than one paypacket in prospect beyonfd the end of next month. Oh, and The Dutchman and I are still seeing each other :oD
Good news about your miller! Long may it continue. And lots and lots of luck with the job front. Sounds necessary but scary. And for the cars, buy a skoda as they're ace!
the new car
I've bought an '52 plate 1.9TDI Seat Ibiza from Haywards Heath. It's a beautiful colour!
[pen] I'm now speculating on what you rate a beautiful colour. Bright red? Sky blue? Metallic chartreuse with glow-in-the-dark purple go-faster stripes?
... The same colour as Jan Miller's eyes? :-)
Spam heads-up (Crosspost)
I've added the original list of Encyclopaedia Morningtonia contributors, including their email addresses, to the E.M. Wiki. This shouldn't matter because those addresses have already been on-line for years, and many of them are dead anyway. But if you want to censor or update your details, now's a good time.
[Simons] Now you mention it, it's not far off that colour!
Saw Graeme Garden and Tim Brooke-Taylor on stage last night in The Goodies Still Rule OK at Southend. Good show, although very similar format to the BBC2 documentary at Christmas. Sadly, all but one of the video clips used are from episodes already out on DVD.
Goodie Goodie yum yum!
I am currently sans TV and don't intend to buy another one for a while - I'm getting a hell of a lot more done without it. However, one of my lovely mates brought round the Goodies on DVD for me to watch on my laptop, and I'm saving it for when there is absolutely no more housework to be done. I do miss TimeTeam though :o(
when there is absolutely no more housework to be done
And when would that be? Jo Brand asks, 'How can you tell if it's time to do the washing and ironing? Look in your pants and if you see a penis it's not time'
*gives up on EVER getting to watch The Goodies on DVD*
Hi. MCiOS will be unavailable for most of the day, UK time. Pardon the inconvienence. It should be up by mid-to-late afternoon.
It's baaaaaaaack!
Easter
Everyone enjoying their Easter? I've got some spring cleaning I've been putting off, and some painting I've been putting off, oh, and some other domestic stuff [I've been putting off] - (you get the idea) and I'm waiting to hear whether I've got a job. I would much rather not have been left to stew over the long weekend, truth be told. Hope I get to hear before Thursday . . .
Oh look, there's a robin.
Started sanding down some woodwork to paint it, then realised I'd bought the wrong type of paint. Ho hum. And jerry's back (different flat) so we'll have to get Dave back in to flush him/her out.
When the rob - rob - robin comes ...
[Simons] Stayed at a country pub in Bradford-on-Avon [N Wilts] last night - had an early morning coffee standing out the back and was rewarded with the sight of a plumptious [sp?] robin doing some serious nest-building. In fact, there were plenty of birds scooting back and forth a-laden with twigs and stuff. Call me old-fashioned, but I have to say - it was a sight to gladden my heart.
[Chalks] You're old fashioned.
...
9 su 10! Ottenerlo! Siete buoni! [Spam eliminato -- rab]
Which reminds me, I must write a 'Delete f*@kwit' module.
Hmmm
That was easier than expected. Given me the opportunity to wash off some of the graffitti that's accumulated over the years.
And the flat's just been Daved. I'd forgotten how entertaining he is in his mouse-destroying ways.
Katharine's a little traumatised though. She kind of hoped they would just "go away"....
Delete f*@kwit module
Yikes! looks apprehensive.
The graffiti at the end of the 'So help me God...' game is very weird. It's clearly spam - there's been about one attempt per hour to spam that game (so I've closed it) but it's very odd spam.
And since its whimsy is not entirely contra the spirit of this site, I'm tempted to leave it in...
"Zhili byli"
Having just gone and looked, I think you're right. "Zhili byli" = "Silly billy"?
...
Ich besichtige deinen Aufstellungsort wieder bald fur sicheres! Übrigens, bin ich ein Arschloch
Schön. Looks like the link threshold might have to be reduced if this game is starting to be targetted.
spam
What is the purpose of those links in random websites anyway? Is it supposed to get picked up by search engines or something?
[snorgle] I dunno really. Just presumed its cos they're twats!
spurious links
[snorgle] Yes, but I suspect it may be counter-productive. If link spam is not removed, that suggests the site it's on is moribund. If the link spam is removed, that means the site is live and the spam is unwelcome. And if the search engines score -1000000 page rank points when a link is removed, and only +1 page rank point when a link is added, spam-that-gets-removed very rapidly depresses the original inflated page rank scores. I assume the search engines' page rank algorithm is a bit more sophisticated than that, but I think that captures the gist of what they can do.
So, err, should I remove it then?
Anti-spam
Hell, yes. :-)
Duly dusted.
Cross
Currently contemplating how to vote in the impeding McElection. (Of course, I might completely forget as The Big Day is two days later, and I might have things on my mind). I live in a "battleground" constituency, apparently, but you'd hardly know it - the only people to have been vigorously campaigning are the Conservatives who I think come 4th in our consituency... The basic problem is that I'm not keen on the SNP's attitude towards independence. Although this would appear irrelevant in a Labour/LibBum marginal it's pretty obvious that the LibBums are going to hold the balance of power whatever happens, so losing a seat to Labour might help stave off the SNP threat. But then I'm not that big on Labour either... Quite probably the smartest thing to do is to vote tactically on the FPP half of the coupon, and vote idealistically in the Regional List half. But then, who to chose from this lot...?
[rab] If you vote Labour or LibDem, either could contribute toward the continuation of the Lib/Lab coalition, as the SNP wouldn't win the seat anyway. OTOH, if the SNP look like they're in with a chance, you need to vote for the party most likely to hold them off (which I would guess would be the LDs in Edin South, unless the boundary changes have altered things). Personally, given the state of the planet, I tend to vote Green in regional lists (e.g. GLA and EU elections) as it seems to be the only way for them to ever win a seat. Don't really agree with all their policies but I naively trust that it helps with pushing the environment a little further up the agenda.
(For that matter, I notice that the polls are suggesting the Greens could fall back to 1 MSP this time (from 7 last), so if you want to help shore up their position, Green would be a good way to go in the lists).
upcoming elections
I've just received my polling card for next month's Assembly election, so I've been pondering too. I live in a Labour donkey district, so it can feel a bit pointless, but then there are the regional lists to vote for as well. Libdems would seem to be the most likely to get in on this one, but I'm greatly annoyed at the vast quantity of crappy "newspapers" they keep pushing through my letterbox. One of them wasn't even identified as party political except in teeny-tiny writing at the very bottom of the back page.
Green with MP
[Projoy] A crap reason for voting green would be that I actually know, and like, the third person on the regional list (we currently have 2 on our regional list).
[snorgle] Oh dear! I often hear other people complain that they'll vote for x party because "they were the only one that bothered to send me anything saying what they believed in". Damned if they do, damned if they don't, clearly!
This chap is impressively policy-free.
election bumf
[Projoy]The stuff that comes out around election time is pointless, and consists of blatant attempts at rubbishing the opposition, with little talk of their own policies. The libdems do actually send round little circulars even when it's not near an election, but they are such obvious little puff pieces I pay them no mind.
[rab] That's such a content-free candidacy that you almost wonder if it's some cheeky Channel 4 documentary maker trying to demonstrate that you can sell any old crap to the electorate.
Apologies for any inconvenience, but due to the increased rate of spamming you no longer get any 'free' links (except ones to other pages on mc5). You still can post links, but need to enter the code word which should be familiar from a similar set-up at MCiOS. If you need any help, email me.
PS: the codeword box appears when you "Stand' or 'Preview'.
Code Word
Will you be offering a "forgot the code word?" auto e-mailing thing like google does for passwords?

Just kidding. I think I can hazard a guess in the unlikely event I wish to post a link.
Password Reminders
I envision a reminder of the form, 'Dear Duncan Goodhew. This letter has some handy hints for how to keep your hair in tip-top condition. I suggest you have it framed and pin it up on your bedroom wall. Yours sincerely, Mrs Trellis.'
It does raise the issue of allowing people to post on the first go -- although arguably if you're posting a link you should be made to preview, so maybe this is a good thing. I've been tempted to make the field an ordinary one with the prompt "Shoe size:" or something in front of it. Regular players will know that most of the time they don't have to put anything there and anyone else can type anything they want and it won't hurt anything.
[Dan] A preview does appear, and since links are often mis-entered, this is probably not a bad idea.
[rab] Sorry, I came across as critical of the idea in that last post. I think it is a splendid way of limiting the unwanted spam without preventing links at all. Sorry for any confusion.
[SM] No criticism was inferred.
Ooh, a free slot.
I think an actual game of MC should go in it.
Yikes!
I leave this job on Friday 27th April after NINE whole years. Plan A is to get another job (another interview on Monday...) Plan B is to copywrite on a freelance basis and otherwise go temping my way towards a living, which I like the sound of. It means I can be more flexible about when I work, and as The Bloke's weekend always starts on a Saturday evening, not a Friday like most people's, this might be useful. But it depends whether or not I can find enough clients. I'm thinking of some sort of business activity doing for myself what I spent the past nine years developing for [a major client]. I would imagine a temping job might come first though - but that's no bad way to collect clients. I've done it that way before. I have friends building me a website as we speak...
More soon
Just curious
[rab] The odds of it happening are relatively low, but how would the system cope if a spam-bot found the new game link, followed it, and deposited its crap there? [pen] Good luck. I hope to come Simon Smith Tech Writer Limited myself, very shortly.
Hmmm, not sure. The rubric isn't spam checked, but I could add that. Also I should check that the new script doesn't hand out the form when there are no slots available; that way, a spammer's unlikely ever to see the source of the page or have enough opportunities to try it out and see how it works.
arrow_circle_down
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