Yeah - are they geninue results or ITV making it up?
And BBC1 has Boris!
And Peter Snow!
Statistic of the night (so far) the Scottish Socialist Party got 666 votes in Gordon Brown's constituency!
Statistic of the night (so far) the Scottish Socialist Party got 666 votes in Gordon Brown's constituency!
[Chalky] ITV's 'results' are being announced prior to returning officers' confirmations.
Late Arrivals
(pen) Good idea. All those in favour say "aye", say I.
AYE!
psst - free game slot
Clairvoyance
I didn't like the ITV method of 'we have someone on the floor of the count with a mobile phone who's looking over the returning officer's shoulder'. Over the course of the night they got 2 or 3 wrong.
[INJ] I have to say it's not really any different from the way the parties themselves get prior results. I'm never entirely sure why knowing the results a few minutes earlier than anyone else gives you an advantage. It's not as if you can do anything about it.
[Projoy] Yes to No6.
[Darren] The agents anf their supporters are trying to second guess the result from the moment the first box is opened. Part one of the process is that we have to count the papers first into bundles of 25 face up. It is during this that they have markers on the other side of the tables with preprinted list and they watch one of the counters putting a mark against each candidate. As the boxes are in Wards they gauge quickly how it is going. At the count last night there were 13 tables of 5 counters.
During part the guessing is easier. We now take those bundles and this time sort them into four piles (Con/Lab/Lib/other) and then into candidate bundles of 25. It does not take much effort for them to estimate at this stage whether or not it is going to be close.
In Swindon mobile phones were banned from the hall where the count was being held.
[Darren] The agents anf their supporters are trying to second guess the result from the moment the first box is opened. Part one of the process is that we have to count the papers first into bundles of 25 face up. It is during this that they have markers on the other side of the tables with preprinted list and they watch one of the counters putting a mark against each candidate. As the boxes are in Wards they gauge quickly how it is going. At the count last night there were 13 tables of 5 counters.
During part the guessing is easier. We now take those bundles and this time sort them into four piles (Con/Lab/Lib/other) and then into candidate bundles of 25. It does not take much effort for them to estimate at this stage whether or not it is going to be close.
In Swindon mobile phones were banned from the hall where the count was being held.
[Inkspot] But my point was this: why bother trying to find out before it's announced? What's the point?
It gives them something to do, and try to generate a sense of excitement and tension to a very tedious, mind numbing process.
Early call
[Darren] It gives the losers chance to wipe the tears from their eyes and compose themselves.
It would be a lot more fun if they (and their agents) were locked in a sealed room and only led out to hear the result - so we could see their real live reaction.
It would be a lot more fun if they (and their agents) were locked in a sealed room and only led out to hear the result - so we could see their real live reaction.
[Blob] That would be like the Oxford Union elections, which I once made a film about and which, I can assure you, are just as keenly fought and taken just as seriously as "real" election. Ballots are counted in a completely sealed room, rather like Papal elections, with ridiculous hype about the secrecy of it all.
Free game slot again
101 Uses For a B&D Workmate with a Rope Attached?
No, seriously... what now?
No, seriously... what now?
New Game
Rutherford Scattering?
Call me Thrax.
I'm glad the student elections at MY university weren't so beligerent, Breadmaster. They were little more than an excuse for a piss-up. I ran unopposed anyway, since no one else wanted the position of Students with disabilities Secretary. Maybe THAT's why they wouldn't read out my result until after I'd sung a Karaoke of "I'm Too Sexy" by Right Said Fred, and lifted several pair drops out of a bowl full of self-raising flour using my teeth. Still, you make your own entertainment in the Midlands, I suppose.
OK
G'day, Thrax. Nice to see you posting. Hope all's well, my friend.
Call me Thrax.
Aye, 'tis well enough. Just hope they've lifted that mobile phone ban on us Swindonians.
And life treating you well down under, sir? By which I mean "in Australia", not "has the pox cleared up?" of course.
And life treating you well down under, sir? By which I mean "in Australia", not "has the pox cleared up?" of course.
As we say in the medical industry, he's doing as well as can be expected. You know what these geriatrics can be like, Mr Thrax. Once we have detoxed him he'll be able to lead a more or less normal life ... well, his normal.
Call me Thrax.
That's a relief, Matron.
I hope no one tries to detox me however. Fags and booze are about my only form of sustenance.
I hope no one tries to detox me however. Fags and booze are about my only form of sustenance.
(Thrax) And mine. Welcome back, young man. Have you defeated those FUCKING LOBSTERS?
... back again
You have a cat nap and the staff take over. Really! When I was admitted 'they' said certain procedures might be intrusive, but this is taking things a little too far. Should you ever be bludgeoned into detox, Thrax, don't believe a word of what 'they' say. For example: Trusted medical staff suggest that and MRI, or similar, could be benefical to their diagnostic appreciation. Fine. My natural suspicions were aroused when 'they' strapped me into a tube, closed a little glass door on the front and activated the control mechanism. Now, I'm fully aware that drying out the patient is one of the aims of this facility, but to con a patient into entering an industrial spin dryer under the pretext of taking care of him is indefensible.
I'm off outside for a dram and a drag. See you later.
I'm off outside for a dram and a drag. See you later.
Intro Number One
Is, of course, Boogie Wonderland by Earth, Wind and Fire.
Intro Number 5
- is "Celia" by Simon and Garfunkel, or did everybody already know that?
numbers up
[Botherer]Earth, Wind and Fire is right
[Kim]Simon and Garfunkel also right
Seeing as it has been up a couple of days since the original post, no consecutive posts rules is waived (1, 5 and 6 have been guessed.)Can you finish it off?
[Kim]Simon and Garfunkel also right
Seeing as it has been up a couple of days since the original post, no consecutive posts rules is waived (1, 5 and 6 have been guessed.)Can you finish it off?
intros
3. The Temptations - Just My Imagination (Running Away with Me)
"one answer...
8. Cornershop - Brim Full of Asha
... per post"
9. Prodigy - Firestarter
10. Weather With You - Crowded House
[Juxtpose & Darren]all right ;)
which leaves 2. Little Richard - Good Golly Miss Molly, 4. Nancy and Frank Sinatra - Somethin Stupid, 7. Keane - Everybody's Changing
which leaves 2. Little Richard - Good Golly Miss Molly, 4. Nancy and Frank Sinatra - Somethin Stupid, 7. Keane - Everybody's Changing
...and now back to normal chat.
Thank goodness. I hate all that new-fangled pope music, I think it's called.
too late
[Inkspot] I actually got number 2 but had to run off for a few hours so didn't post. It is a standard (but thumpy) 12 bar blues, however, so I wasn't completely sure. The style pins it down to late 50s though. And of course I recognized number 10 within, oh, a note or two (it was all over the radios in Aus in the early 90s).
Crowded House
[flerdle] They were New Zealanders, though, weren't they? I thought Australians were vehemently 100% absolutely totally opposed to all things which emanate from New Zealand, and then some.
On checking Wikipedia, it seems only 1/3 of Crowded House was from New Zealand. This probably explains why Australians gave them a chance.
it's stereotype time!!!
[Darren] No, not at all. A New Zealander would be far more insulted to be called an Australian than an Australian would a New Zealander - they'd probably just laugh at you; don't be stuuuuupid!
Australians tend to coopt a lot of (originally) NZ stuff, if it/they get famous eg Phar Lap, Fred Hollows, Crowded House, Russell Crowe... In sports, they are 'our' worst enemies, but otherwise are generally just given a hard time because we actually don't mind them - sibling rivalry and all that. New Zealand is even more at the @rse-end of the world than Australia and it's rather small, so they tend to feel like they're in Australia's shadow most of the time and perhaps they have 'something to prove', or at least they need to differentiate themselves from big, bossy, boorish Australia(ns). Australians tend to think New Zealand is cold, wet and just that little bit dull...
When the states of Australia joined to become 'Australia' there were noises made to get New Zealand included too (a reasonable idea) but the New Zealanders would have none of that. In the past the economy was better in Australia so a lot of New Zealanders moved. Migration has recently been tending the other way. About 350,000 New Zealand citizens (out of 4 million or so) live in Australia and around 60,000 Australians (out of 20 million) live in New Zealand. Political and economic ties are very close.
Their accent is a bit weird, though, and they are said to have a thing for sheep.
NZspeak
For example, pigs. These are wooden or plastic spring clips used for hanging out the washing.
[flerdle] I got my impressions of the relationship between Australians and New Zealanders by dating a girl from New Zealand for some time. She was a pathologist and said "cadaver" in a very strange way.
NZ Speak
[Rosie] And bits. Wagers on an event's outcome. There's a game here somewhere.
more daq is back
A little bit of a long time ago some rash young people spurred on by evil edna popped along to a Beeb site Celebdaq and set up some starry eyed accounts and formed the Celebrity Mornington Crescent League. But since its hay day last year many players taken that long stretched limo to secluded island of paradise. We are now down to five.
For those like playing here are a couple of addresses to help
MSN Group Ultimates for information on dividends. It is still guess work but every little helps. This week I chose Gavin Henson for best dividend yeild.
Fancy some competition to spice up your play? The Discworld Leagues are back. One of my accounts (Cleddau) is in the Assasssins Guild.
celebdantiquing
[Inkspot] I got busy. And now my account is lapsed. Sorry. *cackle*
I'm probably being dumb here
But I've just signed up for Celebdaq and can't work out how to join the mini league. Help?
(Darren) I'm a little puzzled. Was it something like "G'day-ver"? Did she have six-appeal? Well, obviously, I suppose. :-)
[Botherer]Good to see you join up, if you leave your ID number here it will be added as soon after.
[Rosie] It was "kerdaaaaver," and she always insisted that everyone in NZ spoke like that.
Celebdaq ID
3859547
Thanks Inkspot!
Thanks Inkspot!
Hiding behind the sofa from evil edna
Botherer you are in, welcome. You should appear there very soon. The other players you may not recognise from their alias are Graham III as ffish and gil as sigmundfreud. Dujon and blamelewis you know from around the boards.
For tips and general chit chat visit MSN Group CelebdaqBasements and Ultimates for the stats. There are plenty of experienced players out there willing to help with any query. Enjoy the game.
For tips and general chit chat visit MSN Group CelebdaqBasements and Ultimates for the stats. There are plenty of experienced players out there willing to help with any query. Enjoy the game.
Call me Thrax
Ah yes, I remember Celebdaq. Had a stab at it, but I was completely utterly hopeless. :( I just don't follow the celebrity-driven media closely enough I fear. I think I'm not in touch with the zeitgeist of modern times, which seems to have an obsessive fascination with the lives of the "great and good". It just passes me by and makes no impression.
Although, Rosie, I - very much like yerself - AM aware that many celebs are known to have succumbed to near-fatal cases of Lobsteriscimusbummakissimus. Thankfully mine has cleared up, after successful treatment involving industrial pliers and dyson vacuum, leaving me feeling refreshed and absolutely fantastic. I trust you are in similarly rude health, my friend?
Although, Rosie, I - very much like yerself - AM aware that many celebs are known to have succumbed to near-fatal cases of Lobsteriscimusbummakissimus. Thankfully mine has cleared up, after successful treatment involving industrial pliers and dyson vacuum, leaving me feeling refreshed and absolutely fantastic. I trust you are in similarly rude health, my friend?
(Thrax) Very rude, as all are aware. The only lobsterish incident in my life occurred in about 1952 when I was unable to read the name of a steam loco across a couple of platforms. The place of course was Charing Crustacean (geddit). Yes, it really was. So four-eyes from an early age, not a great burden.
Sofas
Did you buy your sofa from Sofa King, Inkspot? You know, the firm which advertises as "Sofa King - Good".
I also see, Inkspot, that Dr Q+ is re-entering the fray. With the inclusion of Botherer, my reincarnation and the foibles of the market ... let the battle commence. Not that it ever went away and, anyway, ffish has been on the heavy side of the scales for yonks. I enjoy the play in the Conference but the higher leagues are, at this point in time, a bit beyond me.
Welcome, Botherer, test your skills against idiots like me. It's silly, it's stupid and, to be honest, a waste of cyberspace.
I also see, Inkspot, that Dr Q+ is re-entering the fray. With the inclusion of Botherer, my reincarnation and the foibles of the market ... let the battle commence. Not that it ever went away and, anyway, ffish has been on the heavy side of the scales for yonks. I enjoy the play in the Conference but the higher leagues are, at this point in time, a bit beyond me.
Welcome, Botherer, test your skills against idiots like me. It's silly, it's stupid and, to be honest, a waste of cyberspace.
Call me Thrax
"Charing Crustacean"! *groan* Ouch! A pun like that really aches at this time of morning, Rosie. Ha ha! It's the way ye tell 'em! Which reminds me... anyone else here enjoyed those late night shows on Radio 4 in which Pauline McLynne has been exploring the history of Irish comedy? Some marvellous quotes in it. One of my faves was from Dave Allen, in which he advised that you must never expect a sensible reply if asking for directions in Ireland, as you're likely to be told: "You want to get to there d'ye? Well, ye certainly don't want to start from here! Start from way over there - it's nearer." Ha ha ha. Just brilliant!
*reads Dujon's "Sofa King - Good" quip* That reminds me of a wee gag of my own from my childhood days. I forget who was the recipient, I recall only the gag, but someone invited it by saying to me, "I'm from Suffolk myself," to which, naturally, I replied, "yes, Suffolk yourself." See? I'm pure evil.
I have however just bought a new sofa - well, a sofabed, which I intend to plonk here in my study for when visitors, er, visit. £25 it cost me. The lady upstairs is clearing out a load of unwanted furniture and stuff for next-to-nothing since she won £400,000 on the Lottery and intends to move out at the end of May. Alas however, the lift is broken at the moment and so I can't get the thing down from her floor to mine until an essential component arrives from Deutschland.
I'm sure this is all frightfully dull for you all. Think I'll wind up here for now.
:) Huzzaah!
*reads Dujon's "Sofa King - Good" quip* That reminds me of a wee gag of my own from my childhood days. I forget who was the recipient, I recall only the gag, but someone invited it by saying to me, "I'm from Suffolk myself," to which, naturally, I replied, "yes, Suffolk yourself." See? I'm pure evil.
I have however just bought a new sofa - well, a sofabed, which I intend to plonk here in my study for when visitors, er, visit. £25 it cost me. The lady upstairs is clearing out a load of unwanted furniture and stuff for next-to-nothing since she won £400,000 on the Lottery and intends to move out at the end of May. Alas however, the lift is broken at the moment and so I can't get the thing down from her floor to mine until an essential component arrives from Deutschland.
I'm sure this is all frightfully dull for you all. Think I'll wind up here for now.
:) Huzzaah!
[Inkspot] You are a gentleman and a scholar.
A gentleman and a scholar
Oh, that's 0.67 of a Pink Panther.
That's a Pink Pant, more or less.
[penelope]That's a little brief - and a mental picture that I shall immediately put to on side.
Inkspot] Actually, there was a player between it and the goal, so it was onside anyway.
Offside rule
(Irouléguy) There have to be two players, or at least one and a half.
*mimes*
Hmmmm
[CdM] You're trying to get out of a box?
I thought the penalty box was for hockey... or was that prison?
motorway madness
Legoland is great when you get there the only problem is other drivers on the M4. Yesterday there were three accidents on different sections between Hugerford and Slough adding an hour onto the travelling. I am no saint when it comes to motorway driving, recklesly driving over the limit at an average of just under 75mph, but at I abide by lane discipline, overtake; then back to the inside lane. There were just so mannt middle lane dawdlers. They really are the bane of my driving life. Squatting in the middle lane they are a hazard they can be like their own personal mobile roadblock as other drivers attach themselves closely to the bumper. A further irritation of the most blinkered of these drivers is the way they come to a slow moving vehicle in the middle lane then hypnotized staying behind rather than overtake. When will they get it into their skulls that the second and third lanes are for overtaking it is not, inside lane = slow lane and outside lane = fast lane.
[Inkspot] Abso-bloody-lutely. I undertake middle-land dawdlers if I can do it without speeding. I know it's evil, but they have been told time and time again. Pffft.
Hogging the middle lane is unacceptable, but I have to say I don't think I've ever seen anyone hogging the middle land whilst driving at under 70mph. Given that no-one is allowed to go over 70mph, they are therefore not blocking anybody.
*taps the deja-vuometer - needle rises sharply*
[Breadmaster] Oh I have. How come there is space for me to go at 70mph in Lane 1 if he/she or it is going at 65mph in Lane 2? Because everyone else in Lane One has pulled ahead (at a legal speed) of the sluggish Lane Two-er, that's why. Exactly how much motorway driving do you do?
Well, not so much these days, admittedly. Perhaps there are more slow middle lane hoggers than there used to be!
*resists the temptation to say what speed I routinely cruise at*
In the old Polo I use for work I return via M4 J15/J15 at a steady pace just under 60, the car seems comfortable with this - there being a noise barrier somewhere round 70.
Thankfully I missed this latest offering from ITV Twelve gorgeous celebrity singletons are thrown together on a fantasy island in ITV1’s star studded search for love, Celebrity Love Island. The end of the Dyke era seems to have given the beeb a small kick up the backside. Unfortunately Ofcom seem to want more of this low quality 'entertainment' in allowing ITV to dump anything that is done elsewhere eg news, childrens progs.
Thankfully I missed this latest offering from ITV Twelve gorgeous celebrity singletons are thrown together on a fantasy island in ITV1’s star studded search for love, Celebrity Love Island. The end of the Dyke era seems to have given the beeb a small kick up the backside. Unfortunately Ofcom seem to want more of this low quality 'entertainment' in allowing ITV to dump anything that is done elsewhere eg news, childrens progs.
Middle lane hogs
I find that middle lane hogs are almost invariably travelling at no more than 60, actually. Usually as they pass under gantries which rather expensively dictate 'DON'T HOG THE MIDDLE LANE'. Given my penchant for grotesquely illegal (but not dangerous, dammit; how is 100-120 on a dry, empty road, in a well-maintained car designed for over 145, with a healthy, sober, attentive driver, more dangerous than 70?) speeds, I also regularly experience the upper class of lane hog - those that have ascended to the 'fast' lane; to be fair, they're generally only there because of people in the middle lane and will often move when a quarter of a mile gap (ie the space required to pull over and let me pass without slowing for the next hog) avails itself. (I am aware that my driving habits are both vastly illegal and morally reprehensible to some people. I continue to hold my constantly clean license and undamaged person+car as evidence that I am not the murderer our illustrious government would have everyone believe)
The most hate-inducing section of road for me is the newly re-opened Thelwall Viaduct, though, which often sees three of the four lanes occupied by lorries and hoggers, for some reason. It even expands to five lanes for filtering off, so it's not (well, shouldn't be) that.
I'm going on holiday tomorrow evening, for two weeks. Therefore, my DSL will fall over some time on Thursday.
Apologies for the cross posting.
This is really just a last minute round-up for anyone who may want to become involved in an MC event organised for this weekend (the 21st of May).
Last year, a group of regular MC players got together to organise a live game or two, loosely presented in the format of ISIHAC. 17 folks attended ‘ISIHAC2 – This time it’s Unprofessional’. It was so much fun that an instant decision for the event to be repeated.
This years event has been entitled ‘That Went Off Very Well’ and is to be held at Brownsover Hall in Rugby. Bedrooms cost £35 and I am reliably informed that there are still some available, although we are expecting a bigger crowd this year.
On Saturday evening (from about 7.30pm) we will be playing ISIHAC games such as New Definitions, Sound Charades and Mornington C with suitable breaks for beer and refreshments. Piano is being provided by Colin Sell soundalike, JLE. Silliness will be followed by a cabaret including songs specifically written for the occasion and free-for-all gaming.
It may be too late for you to attend, but all the same I thought I would post this in the hope that if there were any players who suddenly found themselves free this weekend would have the opportunity to have an extravagant sufficiency of fun in pleasurable surroundings amongst exuberant and entertaining company.
If you are interested in attending, email me here for all details. There are some half empty cars coming up from London, and I can give lifts from Rugby Train Station.
If you are unable to attend because you just live too far away or wouldn’t miss Eurovision for the world, you can still contribute. Email me at the address above and I’ll send you a programme of the games we are playing. If you have any suggestions for new definitions, chat-up-lines likely to be heard at Westminster or songs suitable for undertakers and morticians, I’ll be very happy to read out your contribution “here is one sent in by…” style.
Once again, apologies for interrupting programming. Normal Service will now be resumed.
This is really just a last minute round-up for anyone who may want to become involved in an MC event organised for this weekend (the 21st of May).
Last year, a group of regular MC players got together to organise a live game or two, loosely presented in the format of ISIHAC. 17 folks attended ‘ISIHAC2 – This time it’s Unprofessional’. It was so much fun that an instant decision for the event to be repeated.
This years event has been entitled ‘That Went Off Very Well’ and is to be held at Brownsover Hall in Rugby. Bedrooms cost £35 and I am reliably informed that there are still some available, although we are expecting a bigger crowd this year.
On Saturday evening (from about 7.30pm) we will be playing ISIHAC games such as New Definitions, Sound Charades and Mornington C with suitable breaks for beer and refreshments. Piano is being provided by Colin Sell soundalike, JLE. Silliness will be followed by a cabaret including songs specifically written for the occasion and free-for-all gaming.
It may be too late for you to attend, but all the same I thought I would post this in the hope that if there were any players who suddenly found themselves free this weekend would have the opportunity to have an extravagant sufficiency of fun in pleasurable surroundings amongst exuberant and entertaining company.
If you are interested in attending, email me here for all details. There are some half empty cars coming up from London, and I can give lifts from Rugby Train Station.
If you are unable to attend because you just live too far away or wouldn’t miss Eurovision for the world, you can still contribute. Email me at the address above and I’ll send you a programme of the games we are playing. If you have any suggestions for new definitions, chat-up-lines likely to be heard at Westminster or songs suitable for undertakers and morticians, I’ll be very happy to read out your contribution “here is one sent in by…” style.
Once again, apologies for interrupting programming. Normal Service will now be resumed.
Middle Lane Hogs
My favourite tactic with these fools is to drive up reasonably close to them in the inside lane, indicate out and overtake. Once past them I indicate back in to the inside lane and then slow down until they pass me. Repeat until they get the hint or I get bored.
MLH's
(Botherer) Why do they need to get the hint? You've already overtaken him and have no need to concern yourself with him any more. Just drive on, maybe with a brief profanity. All you're doing is raising your blood pressure, not his. He'll just think you're a bit mad, that is if he sees you at all.
Songs for undertakers
Botherer could have a go at Meatloaf's Objects in the rearview mirror may appear closer than they are.
- controversial -
Hurrah a road debate ! I like the sound of NIK's driving. I would also say that Inkspot is very correct to travel that section of teh M4 slowly as they have just pout speed cameras calibrated at about 74mph on it (J14-16) - or at least said that on the news, which is a similar effect.....
Anyone who is of teh opinion that anyone driving over 70 is a lunatic or whatever is really the kind of person that I shouldnt really even start talking to about this because, frankly and honestly, I couldn't give a toss about their opinions on this matter and would fervently hope never to have to be a passengger in their car or have them in mine. I drive at about 90 most of teh time, occasionally creeping up to about 110 for brief periods or dropping to 70 if the road is clear. I will generally sit in outside or middle lanes and will always pull over to middle lane if someone is approaching me fast and I can easily - otherwise I will wait until three is a gap I can do this safely then pull out immediately behind them (well, maybe not IMMEDIATELY) If they approach really close and hassle me, especially with an indicator on, or in any way before I have had a chance to let them get past politely then I do not alwyas pull out - sometimes I will sit there just to piss them off, sometimes I will accelerate, somketimes I will touch my brakelights (though not brake) - I will let them past but not necessarily straight away. F*ck em. Similarly when I approach someone from behind I give thme plenty of chance to pull out of my way. If they don't then I will get a bit closer. Sometimes I undertake - I have no problem with doing this at all if there is space. If I am in middle lane I do not always pull aside. If I am in middle lane that normally means that there is no-one in fast lane and so road is quite clear - however I am normally going faster than someone in the 'slow' lane. If someone comes up hard behind me wanting to get past, then my thinking is that they can bloody well overtake me by using the space available on my right. I dont see why anyone has a problem with people not going as fast as them in teh middle lane when there is another lane available. Fast lane slow drivers I accept are a ROYAL PAIN IN THE ASS. Middle lane - so what ? I like botherers circling technique though. :o)
In Italy the other week I LOVE the way they drive on the Mways. Screaming up fast to within inches and then overtaking at last second. Everyone seems happy with it. I just love the sheer recklessness of it.
Anyone who is of teh opinion that anyone driving over 70 is a lunatic or whatever is really the kind of person that I shouldnt really even start talking to about this because, frankly and honestly, I couldn't give a toss about their opinions on this matter and would fervently hope never to have to be a passengger in their car or have them in mine. I drive at about 90 most of teh time, occasionally creeping up to about 110 for brief periods or dropping to 70 if the road is clear. I will generally sit in outside or middle lanes and will always pull over to middle lane if someone is approaching me fast and I can easily - otherwise I will wait until three is a gap I can do this safely then pull out immediately behind them (well, maybe not IMMEDIATELY) If they approach really close and hassle me, especially with an indicator on, or in any way before I have had a chance to let them get past politely then I do not alwyas pull out - sometimes I will sit there just to piss them off, sometimes I will accelerate, somketimes I will touch my brakelights (though not brake) - I will let them past but not necessarily straight away. F*ck em. Similarly when I approach someone from behind I give thme plenty of chance to pull out of my way. If they don't then I will get a bit closer. Sometimes I undertake - I have no problem with doing this at all if there is space. If I am in middle lane I do not always pull aside. If I am in middle lane that normally means that there is no-one in fast lane and so road is quite clear - however I am normally going faster than someone in the 'slow' lane. If someone comes up hard behind me wanting to get past, then my thinking is that they can bloody well overtake me by using the space available on my right. I dont see why anyone has a problem with people not going as fast as them in teh middle lane when there is another lane available. Fast lane slow drivers I accept are a ROYAL PAIN IN THE ASS. Middle lane - so what ? I like botherers circling technique though. :o)
In Italy the other week I LOVE the way they drive on the Mways. Screaming up fast to within inches and then overtaking at last second. Everyone seems happy with it. I just love the sheer recklessness of it.
typos
schmypos - sorry
Roads here are nice. And smooth. And straight, mostly. And fast. Everyone goes fast. Every second time we go to Muscat (approx 240km each way - about once every two weeks) there's at least one rather nasty looking accident. Sometimes it's a bit hard to see what type of car it (formerly) was.
what type of car.....?
flerdle] is that because you are going by so fast ?
[St D] So doesn't the fact that something's illegal bother you at all?
I didn't mean that to sound confrontational, by the way - but I am genuinely puzzled because I'd have thought that most people would at least have some scruples about breaking the law. But in this subject it seems not!
Motoring
As if I didn't hear all this boy-racer bollocks 40 yrs ago. Driving manners and attitudes have improved considerably over the decades but there are clearly some that this welcome cultural change has yet to reach.
Little Sir
[flerdle] My daughter drives an Echo, though the two door hatch rather than the booted four door. I love the optically jiggered read-outs. Whilst I have not driven the little beast, it must make refocussing of the eyes much easier/faster/safer than the conventional system.
Hmm, *thinks*, I hope I haven't said this before somewhere.
Hmm, *thinks*, I hope I haven't said this before somewhere.
Manners
It's really nice to read opinions like "Driving manners and attitudes have improved considerably over the decades" since one the whole people tend only to express their perception of degradation. Thanks Rosie.
[Bm] And there was me thinking the law tends to reacts to the (changing) concensus as what constitutes unscrupulous behaviour, and not the other way round.
[rab] Yes, laws change to reflect what people think is acceptable, but I would still have thought it unusual for people simply to ignore laws that they don't like with, apparently, it not even occurring to them that the fact that something is illegal is in itself a reason not to do it. It seems that motoring laws are the big exception. But why is this? Or alternatively, am I mistaken in thinking that most people are basically law-abiding in the first place? In which case, what's the point of having laws at all?
Ooof. Big questions! And having typed out a long passage, and deleted it again, I realise I need to think about them some more. Hopefully someone else will get there first.
[Bm] Well, no, I don't think the fact of something being illegal has the slightest moral force at all, in any circumstances. Speed limits aren't the only example of laws being ignored. Ask any tradesman if he'll give a discount for cash -- the discount is coming straight out of the VATman's take, and everyone involved knows that.
good viewing
[Dujon] Yes. I found it surprisingly easy to get used to. For those who don't know, the speedo and other instruments aren't directly in front of the driver, they're on top of the middle of the dashboard. Apparently it makes it easier and cheaper to manufacture both left and right hand drive setups. It's also that bit further away, which means less and quicker focussing, and the fact that it is high up and sideways means that you're not looking down so much, preserving more peripheral vision and road awareness. It was actually more difficult and disturbing to get used to the "old way" than this new setup, when I had to switch back last year for a while. Oh, and our car only has cooling, not heating as in the picture :-)
[laws] Of course people ignore laws they don't like - laws mean nothing much if it stops you from doing what you want, or if it's a bit too inconvenient, especially if you're not likely to get caught. Littering, speeding, copyright, tax... Perhaps some people see the speed laws as stupid or irrelevent in certain conditions, and they don't see there being much in the way of consequences if they break them (since they are of course excellent drivers, and they'll never crash or be taken out by other people), so it's ok to go as fast as they feel is necessary, whatever the laws say.
Note, I am NOT saying that all laws are sensible, and this is a GUESS at a reason for some people's behaviour, and it is probably a question that needs careful analysis of the data ;-) -- but I don't have time or energy to look at it now.
[Raak] Well put.
mini-rant.
and of course, those "it"s should be "they"s etc etc in the second paragraph. Yes, I'm a bad girl for constantly getting things like this in my posts in these places wrong, and I'd edit it if I could, but if you want perfect copy, just go somewhere else. It's not through ignorance, just so y'know, just difficulty expressing myself clearly all at once. In person, I can't argue my way out of a wet paper bag, so in print I'm doing remarkably well, considering, even if I take too long :-)
law
BM] It doesn't bother me in the slightest. Not a jot. As to law...well. I paid a Congestion Charge recently and then got a penalty notice. I had put my number plate in wrong by one digit. All teh papers said "Under the law you have no leg to stand on whatsoever in this case" It was made quite clear under what circumstances it was possible to contest the fine under the law. I thought I had a pretty good case really as it was blindingly obvious to anyone looking that I had attempted to pay for my vehicle and made and honest mistake. Under the LAW it was just tough. So I shut up and paid the extra £50 on top of the £5 I had paid that morning. SO......yesterday, in the Guardian, there is a short article about a ruling by Justice Burnton, finding in favour of Lady Walmsley who had undergone EXACTLY the same situation as me and had decided to appeal, even though it was specifically laid out in LAW that she had no redress. "The Law," found his honour, "was an ass." It often is.
As to whether you should worry too much about legality or illegality of speeding or indeed any other thing that is illegal - its an incredibly liberating moment when you realise that you are an adult and capable of making judgements and decisions yourself.
I realise that this case is not in UK but in Dubai there is a british woman in prison for posessing a banned substance on arrival because it was in her bloodstream (I think it was codeine) I mean - sheeeesh. That's illegal...but honestly (or does your legal/illegal comment only apply to laws in UK BM ?)
Rosie] if your boy racer comment was levelled at me in any way I take great exception to it and would point out that you seem to be stepping down into the lowly territory of insults, which I too am quite good at. I am a very polite and considerate driver and do not drive along suburban residential streets spinning my tyres with my radio booming. I just like to drive and when conditions allow I will do so quickly.
As to whether you should worry too much about legality or illegality of speeding or indeed any other thing that is illegal - its an incredibly liberating moment when you realise that you are an adult and capable of making judgements and decisions yourself.
I realise that this case is not in UK but in Dubai there is a british woman in prison for posessing a banned substance on arrival because it was in her bloodstream (I think it was codeine) I mean - sheeeesh. That's illegal...but honestly (or does your legal/illegal comment only apply to laws in UK BM ?)
Rosie] if your boy racer comment was levelled at me in any way I take great exception to it and would point out that you seem to be stepping down into the lowly territory of insults, which I too am quite good at. I am a very polite and considerate driver and do not drive along suburban residential streets spinning my tyres with my radio booming. I just like to drive and when conditions allow I will do so quickly.
baroness walmsley
(and she got her plate wrong by THREE digits. I had ONE out. ONE. My Law Professor is writing a letter to appeal it. :o)
rosie] maybe i can drive you to phil's pub on sunday ? ;o]
Boy racers
(st d) You may well be a polite and considerate driver; I believe you. But the general tone of your contribution doesn't give that impression, I have to say. Hence my reaction. Sorry. (rab, Breadmaster) Generally, laws reflect what society finds unacceptable, e.g. theft, assault etc. But sometimes society needs pushing in a particular direction by the introduction of a regulation, for example the drink-drive laws. When they were introduced in 1967 there was widespread opposition, but today nobody seriously argues that one should be allowed to drive pissed and some people rather proudly state they will not drink at all before driving, which is however just a bit too smug.
Call me Thrax.
*Looks rather nervous* Oooh ah, um. I'm not sure if I can contribute much to this colourful debate. Errr... indeed, I'd fancied to wander in merely and say hi to all and ask what's new and interesting/joyful or tearful in everybody's lives - small talk I suppose - but I confess I think I've trodden in something over my depth here.
I don't drive, y'see. Never have, never will. I stare bemused at Jeremy Clarkson and the lad from Class 4C, of an evening's viewing of Top Gear, thinking: It's only cars, boys. Don't get so worked up and passionate about 'em. If they all vanished in a puff of smoke tomorrow, you could still travel by use of your god-given limbs as far as the lavatory, and I've known many who can't But they do AMUSE me, the way they talk as if cars were somehow more critical to our existence than oxygen, water and sunlight. But - and I suppose I have now thought of some connection - I agree with your point about Drink-driving Law, Rosie. As a child, I went to school with one or two kids who could no longer walk, and never would, because they had been run down by people whose self-inflated reliance upon their automobiles had far outgrown their observance of public responsibility - ie. driving pissed.
It has, I do confess, given me a very coloured perspective on the whole thing - perhaps also because I too am similarly physically impaired as some of my former schoolmates(though for different reasons) - and I've developed quite an extreme intolerance for anyone who doesn't adhere to the very strictest discipline while moving around a few tonnes of solid, reinforced metal at considerable speed in the near vicinity of other sentient life. Maybe that makes me sound self-righteous and pious, but I'd rather be both of those things than sort of person who'd get behind the wheel after a few on the grounds that to walk home or get a taxi would be "inconvenient".
I don't drive, y'see. Never have, never will. I stare bemused at Jeremy Clarkson and the lad from Class 4C, of an evening's viewing of Top Gear, thinking: It's only cars, boys. Don't get so worked up and passionate about 'em. If they all vanished in a puff of smoke tomorrow, you could still travel by use of your god-given limbs as far as the lavatory, and I've known many who can't But they do AMUSE me, the way they talk as if cars were somehow more critical to our existence than oxygen, water and sunlight. But - and I suppose I have now thought of some connection - I agree with your point about Drink-driving Law, Rosie. As a child, I went to school with one or two kids who could no longer walk, and never would, because they had been run down by people whose self-inflated reliance upon their automobiles had far outgrown their observance of public responsibility - ie. driving pissed.
It has, I do confess, given me a very coloured perspective on the whole thing - perhaps also because I too am similarly physically impaired as some of my former schoolmates(though for different reasons) - and I've developed quite an extreme intolerance for anyone who doesn't adhere to the very strictest discipline while moving around a few tonnes of solid, reinforced metal at considerable speed in the near vicinity of other sentient life. Maybe that makes me sound self-righteous and pious, but I'd rather be both of those things than sort of person who'd get behind the wheel after a few on the grounds that to walk home or get a taxi would be "inconvenient".
[Raak and St D] Well, you can't get clearer than that, and I'm not sure what to say to it other than that I'm surprised, and I would have thought such an attitude would have been highly unusual, but perhaps I'm wrong.
[Rosie] I agree with everything you say here. And I'd add that in my view - and, I would have thought, perhaps wrongly, in the view of most people - there are of course many laws that are probably unjust or require altering in some way, but the way to deal with that is to lobby to have the law changed, not simply to ignore the law while it is on the statute books. To take a wildly different example, it is illegal for an RE teacher (or indeed any teacher) to teach their students about Wicca and neo-paganism. In fact it is illegal for a teacher even to mention these religions to pupils. I think that that is a ludicrous law. But in the unlikely (though, horribly, not impossible) situation of my becoming an RE teacher, I would obey that law whilst lobbying to have it changed. That's not to say I think all laws should be mindlessly obeyed all the time, but I do think that there should be some fairly hefty justification for breaking a law, certainly more than the fact that it is inconvenient to obey it.
[Rosie] I agree with everything you say here. And I'd add that in my view - and, I would have thought, perhaps wrongly, in the view of most people - there are of course many laws that are probably unjust or require altering in some way, but the way to deal with that is to lobby to have the law changed, not simply to ignore the law while it is on the statute books. To take a wildly different example, it is illegal for an RE teacher (or indeed any teacher) to teach their students about Wicca and neo-paganism. In fact it is illegal for a teacher even to mention these religions to pupils. I think that that is a ludicrous law. But in the unlikely (though, horribly, not impossible) situation of my becoming an RE teacher, I would obey that law whilst lobbying to have it changed. That's not to say I think all laws should be mindlessly obeyed all the time, but I do think that there should be some fairly hefty justification for breaking a law, certainly more than the fact that it is inconvenient to obey it.
boy racer
Rosie] fair enough - I reread it and it does come across a tad cavalier. But, I stick by it though should maybe apologise for the tone. Maybe I should reexpress it -
I love driving and on teh Motorway will generally drive over the, in my view, archaic, draconian and roundly ignored 70 limit.
I greatly dislike those that I consider to be drivers who do not have good motorway etiquette. For me this generally means not screaming up and hanging on someone's bumper until they move out of the way. Also it means pulling aside to let a car that is evidently wishing to drive faster by, unless of course you (or they) are in a fast moving queue anyway. Of course this should only be expected when there is a suitable gap to pull into. If there is a car in front of me that seesm to be refusing to move for no good reason then after a good time I will creep slowly closer then drop back and repeat. I love driving on motorways and am at all times relaxed and the only time I have ever gotten really annoyed whilst driving is when stuck in a jam and late for a plane. I generally tend towards letting people in to a queue in front of me rather than not. It never ceases to amaze me how petty people will be about not letting you into a queue and how angry they will get that you are actually going in front of them in a merging traffic situation or similar. When I see a motorbike approaching will always try to create space for them. Heck. I love driving. Its great. Its great to get little waves of appreciation from bikes shooting past at 120 or flashes from trucks or whatever. I get very annoyed when people who you have stopped to let past do not smile or nod or wave. This is very ignorant. I like smiling and nodding and waving at people.
BM] in the Wicca/RE situation you would be foolish to break the law because it could easily be used against you - though would provide an inteersting test case for teh law. As to having to have sreally strong justifications to break a law, well I am not exactly a murdere or anything, but I break the speed limit (as does everyone) and will occasionally smoke a joint or something. I don't care that its illegal. I really don't. As for traffic law violations, I guess the blasé attitude most people have is because you don't end up with a criminal record for breaking the speed limit. (And please don't say "ah yes but you do if you end up killing someone" because that would be very boring.)
I love driving and on teh Motorway will generally drive over the, in my view, archaic, draconian and roundly ignored 70 limit.
I greatly dislike those that I consider to be drivers who do not have good motorway etiquette. For me this generally means not screaming up and hanging on someone's bumper until they move out of the way. Also it means pulling aside to let a car that is evidently wishing to drive faster by, unless of course you (or they) are in a fast moving queue anyway. Of course this should only be expected when there is a suitable gap to pull into. If there is a car in front of me that seesm to be refusing to move for no good reason then after a good time I will creep slowly closer then drop back and repeat. I love driving on motorways and am at all times relaxed and the only time I have ever gotten really annoyed whilst driving is when stuck in a jam and late for a plane. I generally tend towards letting people in to a queue in front of me rather than not. It never ceases to amaze me how petty people will be about not letting you into a queue and how angry they will get that you are actually going in front of them in a merging traffic situation or similar. When I see a motorbike approaching will always try to create space for them. Heck. I love driving. Its great. Its great to get little waves of appreciation from bikes shooting past at 120 or flashes from trucks or whatever. I get very annoyed when people who you have stopped to let past do not smile or nod or wave. This is very ignorant. I like smiling and nodding and waving at people.
BM] in the Wicca/RE situation you would be foolish to break the law because it could easily be used against you - though would provide an inteersting test case for teh law. As to having to have sreally strong justifications to break a law, well I am not exactly a murdere or anything, but I break the speed limit (as does everyone) and will occasionally smoke a joint or something. I don't care that its illegal. I really don't. As for traffic law violations, I guess the blasé attitude most people have is because you don't end up with a criminal record for breaking the speed limit. (And please don't say "ah yes but you do if you end up killing someone" because that would be very boring.)
All in the eye of the beholder
[Rosie] Not drinking *at all* before you drive is more or less the expected behaviour in this country, so to me there would be no smugness at all in saying such a thing. Hypocricy, possibly, for I'm sure not all who say it adhere to it, but that's a different matter. (I think the actual limit for how much alcohol you're allowed to have in your blood stream is 0.2 promille.)
[Laws] I used to go to work by bike, when I lived and worked in different places to where I live and work now. The bike lane through town was very heavily used during rush hour, and there would always be a few people who would take short-cuts, on the wrong side of the road or on no-biking lanes. I used to ponder over why that made me so annoyed, and realised that it was because the people who do that obviously think that they are worth more than the rest of us. If *everybody* broke *every* law they didn't feel like keeping, chaos and worse would ensue, and very few people think that would be a good idea (including those who blithely ignore speed limits or bike against the flow of traffic, forcing others out of the way). So obviously, only a few people are allowed to do that, because they, and their time, are worth so much more than those of the rest of us. Sorry, I don't buy that. Breadmaster speaks for me, too. Oh, and I also don't drive and don't expect I ever will (I tried to learn once upon a time, and failed. I did learn to fly a glider though, which is much more fun anyway).
[Laws] I used to go to work by bike, when I lived and worked in different places to where I live and work now. The bike lane through town was very heavily used during rush hour, and there would always be a few people who would take short-cuts, on the wrong side of the road or on no-biking lanes. I used to ponder over why that made me so annoyed, and realised that it was because the people who do that obviously think that they are worth more than the rest of us. If *everybody* broke *every* law they didn't feel like keeping, chaos and worse would ensue, and very few people think that would be a good idea (including those who blithely ignore speed limits or bike against the flow of traffic, forcing others out of the way). So obviously, only a few people are allowed to do that, because they, and their time, are worth so much more than those of the rest of us. Sorry, I don't buy that. Breadmaster speaks for me, too. Oh, and I also don't drive and don't expect I ever will (I tried to learn once upon a time, and failed. I did learn to fly a glider though, which is much more fun anyway).
I'm also a natural born goody-goody, so I tend to side with Breadmaster too.
I speed. Sometimes. But I also shout at school-run mothers who block the road by parking on the yellow zig-zags, then remove their children from their car seats straight into the road instead of onto the pavement.
I have very little respect for the law per se at all. OTOH I make up for this by having a very highly-developed sense of what is right which I am pretty unbending in following. The reason the Law does not spend much of its time making a pleasant tinkling sound as it breaks in my presence is - surprisingly - because AFAICS on the whole, the Law and What Is Right (in my opinion) are very much congruent.
I do think that surprising because I really think English Law is an ass. So it must obviously get more right than I usually credit it for.
School Run Mums
Those poor kids! Strapped into cars and fussed over by Mother Goose as they are transported from one ultra-safe environment to another. I walked to school in all weathers (just over half a mile) from the age of 5 but for a couple of years I had to go with the Big Girl Next Door. She was 7. Kids these days have no chance to climb trees, get a "bootful" from the pond, cope with falling over, learn to cross the road or not talk to that funny-looking man. I am extremely grateful I was born in 1942 and not 1992 (say).
Speed limits
(st d) The 70 limit isn't archaic and certainly not draconian. You are taking things too literally. It's there to stop people doing much over 85. A higher limit would lead to everyone going faster still and there'd be a few more accidents. 70 is fast enough, anyway. 50 miles at 70 mph takes 43 minutes, at 85 mph 35 minutes, but on the M25 several hours. You just like driving fast; so do I. But it's a bit naughty, and a bit pointless. :-)
[st d] I thought you had your tongue well and truly planted in your cheek when you wrote your original motorway exposé. Thanks for your clarification - it was your statement "I drive at about 90 most of teh time, occasionally creeping up to about 110 for brief periods or dropping to 70 if the road is clear." that led to my interpretation. In my judgement there is nothing wrong with speed itself, it's where and how and by whom it is used. These days I tend to treat everyone else on the road as incompetent, the idea being to keep alert to the fact that I am controlling a missile of significant mass and an error made by someone else could lead to an early demise - mine.
Of course we are all good drivers, of course we all have superb reactions and car control skills. Naturally all our cars are all in tip-top condition and handle like an F1 top ten machine. If you believe all that then you're a cylinder short of a block. Some of this comes from bitter experience and these days I stick to the speed limit (I cannot afford to get caught) even though there are places where said limits are really silly. Don't get me wrong, I was no angel in my younger days, I'm just thankful still to be here.
By the way, give me a bullet with wheels that will handle, a winding road and no traffic (ha!) and I'll be in seventh heaven. ;-)
Of course we are all good drivers, of course we all have superb reactions and car control skills. Naturally all our cars are all in tip-top condition and handle like an F1 top ten machine. If you believe all that then you're a cylinder short of a block. Some of this comes from bitter experience and these days I stick to the speed limit (I cannot afford to get caught) even though there are places where said limits are really silly. Don't get me wrong, I was no angel in my younger days, I'm just thankful still to be here.
By the way, give me a bullet with wheels that will handle, a winding road and no traffic (ha!) and I'll be in seventh heaven. ;-)
winding roads and no traffic
[Dujon] That would be Lincolnshire (on England's east coast) then, which has one of the highest rates of road deaths in the country. Everyone who likes going fast, especially the motorcyclists, make that mistake. When I was a reporter, I attended so many inquests into the deaths of people who make exactly the same mistake, and over-cook it on corners just as a tractor, or a pensioner, pulls out of a farm gateway. If you're going to speed, please do it on motorways.
Deathwish
(pen) So it's true, then. They say The Fens are even worse, but all sorts of things are said about The Fens and its inhabitants.
"Always be able to stop within the distance you can see"
There is no such thing as a winding road with no traffic. Even if there is no traffic, you can't see that there's no traffic.
Ah so.
[penelope, Raak] Indeed. Hence my 'ha'. Hill climbing is a great way to scratch that itch, but the inital costs are a bit steep these days with all the safety considerations. So I now confine myself to being an old plodder, ever alert to inebriates and idiots. I got rid of my clubman style machine a few years ago and puddle around in a family hatch at present. Chances are that my reactions are not as good as they used to be anyway and there's no way I'm going to test out that assumption on a public road.
Monaco may be the most glamorous Grand Prix but one of least watchable with very little to no overtaking. But persistance by the two Williams drivers finally paid off, despite the best efforts of Alonso to cheat; and I see team orders still apply at Ferrari.
Dujon reaches the top of Celebrity Mornington Crescent as DrQ returns to make it seven. I am glad ITV pulled the rug from under Celeb Wrestling and hope the the same will happen to their Celeb Love Island. Not long now till Big Brother6. I think it is looking ever increasingly like Greg Dyke leaving was one of the best things to happen to the BBC programming.
[Inkspot] It's a few years since I last watched a Monaco Grand Prix (it's the time difference, even if it is televised here) but even then I thought that the latest F1 machines have so rapid acceleration and deceleration rates that they have effectively outgrown the circuit as a competitive venue. Not that I think it will be taken off the schedule, there's probably too much money involved. Even in the days of Moss, Fangio, Brabham, Clarke and their ilk it wasn't the easiest place to navigate around a rival. It must be terrifying these days.
Greg Dyke
(Inkspot) Agreed. Good result, but wrong reason nevertheless.
Didn't we have a loverly time ...
For those that are remotely interested - Rugby II/Ratby I was a roaring success. there's a taste of some of the happenings in the Pilg Game in Orange MC.
[Rosie] So sorry you couldn't make it. Understandable. I had no idea you had pulled out and was still checking with Reception for your arrival by the time the G&T's were served ... :-)
[Rosie] So sorry you couldn't make it. Understandable. I had no idea you had pulled out and was still checking with Reception for your arrival by the time the G&T's were served ... :-)
all sorts
chalk] lovely to meet you - thanks for organising it all. Hope you got home safely. I did, then had a marvellous power snooze.
Rosie] I am not sure I agree on your "there's no point to driving fast". When I drive up to Wales to see my Mum - normally for teh weekend, the AA site tells me that that journey should take me 4h47minutes. I can do it in under 3h30minutes, including a petrolk stop. This is one hell of a difference.
Dujon] Funnily enough that wasn't tongue in cheek. If the road has cars on it I will generally try to get in front of as many as I can. This may seem like me being an idiot fast driver, but actually its because I feel safer this way - if I am overtaking I tend to just keep going because people rarely drive with a big gap between each other so I will just plow on past until either the traffis clears or there is a big gap on my left to pull over into if I feel like it. If the road is very empty indeed I will generally slow down considerably.
Raak/winding roads] There is actually an incredibly beautiful stretch of road in the alps, east of Grenoble, on the way up to Les 2 Alpes which is wondoing and yet you know is clear or not. I used to go out with a girl from there and remember being absolutely terrified once when she started overtaking all teh tourist traffic on blind corners, where the left hand side of teh road dropped off hundreds of metres as teh road was cvarved into the side of a valley, hence the twists. She assured me it was okay, and the next time we drove it she showed me that there is a point as you come onto that stretch where you can see the entire road on your left carved along the valley side, for a very long stretch, and can see any cars that are on it. There being no roads off this long stretch, when you round teh valley side and can suddenly no lonegr see around the corners, you nonetheless know that there is no traffic coming the other way. Its great if you know it, but must be scary for the tourists being overtaken by teh locals as they edge slowly along gawping at the breathtaking scenery.
Rosie] I am not sure I agree on your "there's no point to driving fast". When I drive up to Wales to see my Mum - normally for teh weekend, the AA site tells me that that journey should take me 4h47minutes. I can do it in under 3h30minutes, including a petrolk stop. This is one hell of a difference.
Dujon] Funnily enough that wasn't tongue in cheek. If the road has cars on it I will generally try to get in front of as many as I can. This may seem like me being an idiot fast driver, but actually its because I feel safer this way - if I am overtaking I tend to just keep going because people rarely drive with a big gap between each other so I will just plow on past until either the traffis clears or there is a big gap on my left to pull over into if I feel like it. If the road is very empty indeed I will generally slow down considerably.
Raak/winding roads] There is actually an incredibly beautiful stretch of road in the alps, east of Grenoble, on the way up to Les 2 Alpes which is wondoing and yet you know is clear or not. I used to go out with a girl from there and remember being absolutely terrified once when she started overtaking all teh tourist traffic on blind corners, where the left hand side of teh road dropped off hundreds of metres as teh road was cvarved into the side of a valley, hence the twists. She assured me it was okay, and the next time we drove it she showed me that there is a point as you come onto that stretch where you can see the entire road on your left carved along the valley side, for a very long stretch, and can see any cars that are on it. There being no roads off this long stretch, when you round teh valley side and can suddenly no lonegr see around the corners, you nonetheless know that there is no traffic coming the other way. Its great if you know it, but must be scary for the tourists being overtaken by teh locals as they edge slowly along gawping at the breathtaking scenery.
Wheeeee
As you might expect of me - I'm on the side of driving as fast as is sensible given the road and conditions, regardless of the speed limit on that stretch of road. This may well mean going considerably slower than the advised limit if conditions dictate. I have no qualms about breaking the law by driving at 90-odd (or more) on a good clear motorway, agreeing with those that think that 70mph on a motorway in reasonable weather conditions is a farcically low limit. Remember that's just 10mph faster than you are allowed to go on a single track winding country lane.
Rugbypilg
(Chalky) OK :-) Wish I'd been there.
pilg
rosie] Samantha told me that she had been looking forward to seeing you playig with your bone , and was most disappointed not top have a chance to blow it herself.
Slide cream
(st d) V. Good. I am tickled. I hope she realises that "Trombonists Do It In Seven Positions", as they say. Fairly routine stuff for her, no doubt. My nextdoor neighbour is called Samantha, precisely 28 years younger than me and at present heavily pregnant, not through any action on my part, which in the long term is probably a good thing.
rab'll love this...
*Cross Posted* - and a day later than usual as I was away from my inbox yesterday.
Dear I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue Mailing List Member, We bring you news of a recording of the programme that is taking place at the close of this year's Edinburgh Festival on Monday 29th August (Bank Holiday Monday) at around 6.30pm at the Pleasance Grand. It's a single recording (normally we record two programmes) so the whole event should last around an hour and a half. Tickets go on sale at the Edinburgh Fringe Box Office from Thursday 9th June. They are priced at £7 each. The venue seats 700 so there won't quite as many tickets available as for recent recordings. Again, you'll need to book early to secure a ticket. The Fringe Box Office telephone number is 0131 226 0000 and the website address is www.edfringe.com If this show is of interest, I doubt you'll be able to get through before 9th June, so make a note in the diary to call on Thursday 9th June.
Dear I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue Mailing List Member, We bring you news of a recording of the programme that is taking place at the close of this year's Edinburgh Festival on Monday 29th August (Bank Holiday Monday) at around 6.30pm at the Pleasance Grand. It's a single recording (normally we record two programmes) so the whole event should last around an hour and a half. Tickets go on sale at the Edinburgh Fringe Box Office from Thursday 9th June. They are priced at £7 each. The venue seats 700 so there won't quite as many tickets available as for recent recordings. Again, you'll need to book early to secure a ticket. The Fringe Box Office telephone number is 0131 226 0000 and the website address is www.edfringe.com If this show is of interest, I doubt you'll be able to get through before 9th June, so make a note in the diary to call on Thursday 9th June.
Law Abiding
BM] Just to carry on this discussion about law - as it is quite interesting - If the govt brings in ID Cards, and makes it compulsory to carry them, then would you think that people would carry the card only because of "practical" reasons, or do you think that people would feel a moral obligation to do so, as it was law ? Also I would imagine that there would be a large group of people who would feel a moral obligation to NOT carry the new cards, in order to register their opposition to the new law. How would these people figure ?
Living, as I do, 15 minutes walk from the Fringe Box office, I shall attempt to buy them in person on Thursday 9th rather than listen to an engaged tone for 3/4 hour. Wish me luck.
Except that, allegedly, the box office doesn't open until the following Monday. I'll pop into the society office sometime and ask them...
[St D] Well, I would feel a moral obligation to carry them as it would be the law, but clearly I don't know how widespread such a view would be. For example, in New Zealand it is illegal to drive without having your driving licence on you, so I always had it with me even though there was no "practical" advantage to this. As for the conscientious objectors, I personally don't think their position would be defensible. To my mind it is justifiable to break a law if doing so would bring about more good or cause less harm than keeping the law. But in this case, following the ID card law would obviously do no harm - it would not harm anyone if an opponent of the law did carry their card, and it would benefit no-one for them not to carry it, other than to register their protest at the law. But they can register that protest just as effectively whilst obeying it, which surely means that there is no moral argument for breaking the law, and I would like to think that most people would agree that in such a case one should obey the law rather than break it. I hadn't imagined that there would be people who would break such a law purely because they oppose it, but I don't really understand this mentality that some people seem to have that civil disobedience is the best way to change the law. They seem to think that if you personally don't agree with a law then that gives you carte blanche to break it. Often when they are interviewed on TV they make vague references to "democracy", as if that entailed libertarianism.
ID Cards and the law
(Breadmaster) Driving licences are for people who are permitted to drive. ID cards are for people who are permitted to . . . . . . (fill in as appropriate). Why should I have to carry an ID card everywhere. After all, I know who I am. Disobeying the law while harming no-one else is a very good way to get the law changed.
[Bm] What do you propose as a means to change the law? In the case of ID cards, what would appear to be a law which is unproven to fulful its primary stated purpose (combatting terrorism) and which is proposed to have its costs bourne by the unwilling individual?
Sorry, that second thing wasn't a question. I'm not sure it even qualifies as a sentence...
[Rosie] I don't see why disobeying the law, in an example such as this, would be any more effective at changing the law than not disobeying it. Why would this be more effective than writing to your MP, going on a march, and all the other legitimate means that we have? Surely in the absence of any other considerations, one should obey the law, and so if disobeying it would not achieve anything, as I doubt that it would in this case, one should obey it.
[rab] Wouldn't it make more sense to say that if the law is indeed ineffective as well as burdensome, that is an argument for changing it, not for disobeying it, and if it does indeed prove counter-productive, the government would change it themselves irrespective of whether people disobey it or not?
[rab] Wouldn't it make more sense to say that if the law is indeed ineffective as well as burdensome, that is an argument for changing it, not for disobeying it, and if it does indeed prove counter-productive, the government would change it themselves irrespective of whether people disobey it or not?
Yes but the question I asked was "What do you propose as a means to change the law?" which was not intended as an argument to disobey it. It was a question asking, erm, how you would go about getting a law you didn't like changed. I think.
BM] The poll tax comes to mind, as a law which was eventually abolished because so many people broke it.
(BM) The best strategy for someone who doesn't like the idea of ID cards (to the exclusion of all other considerations) would have been to vote for the Tories. Whatever their manifold defects they do not have the authoritarian frame of mind of New Labour. If they'd got in, of course, the taste of power may well have changed that - it happens with all governments and they need to be constantly watched. They'll try to tell you an ID card is for your benefit. It isn't. It's for theirs. Disobey this lousy pointless law if it comes in, even if just for kicks, or self-esteem.
[rab] Well, like I said, write to your MP, or to the relevant government minister, and if you feel strongly enough start a campaign and go on marches. As for the poll tax, surely that was abolished because there was such a tide of feeling against it and such massive protests, not because people disobeyed it. People disobeying it and its revocation were two effects of the one cause, namely the unpopularity of the law, rather than cause and effect, I'd say.
Sorry - I missed that part of your response to Rosie. To be clear I don't advocate disobedience as a means towards change, but I also don't advocate slavishly following ridiculous regulations laid down by someone else "just because". There has to be a good logical reason, and because "someone else said so" doesn't count.
BM] Something like 10 million people got summonsed for not paying the poll tax, though most just got fined. The credit-checking companies stopped including poll tax debts in credit-worthiness checks, because so many people had debts that it would have made their whole system unworkable. That refusal to pay and the campaigns against it were two sides of a coin - I don't see how you can seperate them out.
ID cards
fior me, the challenge will be to carry it but in such a way that it is useless for its intended purpose. Perhaps I'll have it laminated so that it doesn't get damaged. And then won't fit in any of the readers, oh dear.
Having fully identified myself, may I draw your attention to the spare games slot? What shall we have?
How about another limericks game?
More seriously, how about a revival of Carpe Diem?
More seriously, how about a revival of Carpe Diem?
Hmm, not convinced by Carpe Diem, though I can't really think of anything else. Anyone got something fresh and new?
I've got this salad.
I'd still like a game of Gallifrey Crescent.
New game
Bob the dog (or someone posing as him) seems to have seized the day with Sabogy, but the ruleset is unexplained and the opening move is, to say the least, combative.
I'd like a Headlines game... I know Stevie has just started one on Orange, but that's people-based. How have we played them before? Like Cheddar Headlines?
Sabogy
It was possibly a lurker that created the game sometime before half six this morning
[pen]I say go for it, end Sabogy and create the game.
Stop press
[pen] Haven't we got The Cheddar Valley Gazette running on Orange at present?
...more accurately known as Holmes Raided In Mystery Dawn Swoop.
[UK] Oh. I thought that was mystery-based, which is never my thing, so I hadn't looked. Something had to be done to get rid of the sweary thing though - the same game forced me to bed on Saturday night. Feel free to fold the newspaper game if you don't want it. Fold... geddit? ;o)
How about playing the Flower Game, as mooted by Bob in ...so help me God? :)
I don't think we've ever played Commie Crescent, which might be interesting. The winner is the first to redistribute Mornington Crescent to all the other players.
Practicality
BM] Your example of driving in New Zealand illustrates my point. Of course there is a practical advantage to carrying your driving license whilst driving. This practical advantage is that if stopped by the Police, you would nat have to go through the painful process that may arise from your not carrying it. This is my point with ID cards - one might carry it purely for teh "practical" reason that it is law and it is easier just to obey the lwa and thereby avoid any ridiculous consequences that may arise from not carrying it. But there is no MORAL reason why one should carry an ID card. I think what you fail to realise is that although our moral obligations often comply with legal obligations, many people do not believe that something is a moral obligation simply because it is a legal obligation. This is especially true when it comes to minor traffic violations. I must say that I find your blind obedience quite frightening, in a 1984 kind of way.
Yes but
StD] I know this is an argument where no-one will convince anyone else, but I have a problem with individuals deciding what they are and are not morally obliged to do. I'm sure Harold Shipman believed that he was morally right in relieving these old people of their suffering (and I know that's a reductio ad absurdum, but it is the other end of the same continuum). As for minor traffic offences, the roads are provided and maintained by highway authorities/the government for people to use in cars under certain conditions. Thus I would equate asking people to carry their licence with insisting that cars should be taxed and insisting on speed limits with insisting on insurance or insisting that people should not be under the influence.
On identity cards I would take the French view, that they should be provided cheaply and for all, but that it should not be obligatory to carry one (most French people do, but that's for convenience). However, the government shouldn't argue that they will be good for the country and for security and then try to recoup the entire cost of providing them in their cost.
On identity cards I would take the French view, that they should be provided cheaply and for all, but that it should not be obligatory to carry one (most French people do, but that's for convenience). However, the government shouldn't argue that they will be good for the country and for security and then try to recoup the entire cost of providing them in their cost.
[INJ] Individuals do make their own moral decisions, Shipman included. If you're suggesting a moral principle that laws ought to be obeyed, that's your principle and you're welcome to live by it, but it's still up to everyone else whether they decide to adopt that principle or not.
[INJ] "Cheap" identity cards? Whatever the upfront fee, the entire cost of introducing cards will be borne by the taxpayers. That is where governments get their money from.
[INJ] The only real problem with insisting individuals align their morals with the law is how you go about enforcing it. After all, surely that's what the law is intended to do anyway! When it comes down to it, I don't think it's possible to force someone to adopt a belief - and what are moral values if not beliefs?
[Raak] At the risk of hounding you from server to server on the topic of redistribution, they do, but not equally. :) [Darren] I think I'm happy with the law as a means of controlling behaviour more than belief. It then isn't necessary to believe wholly in the moral force of the law, but to simply act expediently or calculatedly in relation to it. If the law is any good (and sometimes it is very good), its drafters will tend to make some rough calculations about the behaviours it will provoke and try to ensure those give the moral outcome desired.
Simulposted - but still
[Raak, Darren] You're right of course, and I think I've said something that I don't really mean. I suppose I have misgivings that people (including myself), have a tendency to advance a 'moral high ground' defence for something that is really much more to do with convenience. This weakens the force of real, more important, moral stands.
[Cost of ID cards] If there are advantages in things like security, reducing benefit fraud and the like, then the cost of ID cards should be at least partly borne by those budgets. If you don't do that then in effect it's an addition to the government tax take - I'm arguing that it should be neutral or that the cost should come out of general, means-based, progressive taxation..
[Cost of ID cards] If there are advantages in things like security, reducing benefit fraud and the like, then the cost of ID cards should be at least partly borne by those budgets. If you don't do that then in effect it's an addition to the government tax take - I'm arguing that it should be neutral or that the cost should come out of general, means-based, progressive taxation..
[Projoy] I wasn't intending to depict the law as a controller of belief, so much as a set of moral values which are supposedly held by the majority of society (or, more accurately, by the government) but not necessarily by individuals. In this sense, the law's connection with belief is that it's a formal statement of the way the government and/or society believes we should behave.
By way of light relief, and with Pen in mind...
heavily UNrelieved
[Btd] What the f ...?
... and by the way
'pen' has a small 'p'
[Chalky] She should see the doctor about that.
Or at least have the decency to use the proper receptacle for it.
moral obligations
I really think its a fascinating discussion. I must say though ImNotJohn, that there si really no-one else at all who can decide what I am morally obliged to do and not do do. They can give an opinion, they can throw me in jail, they can make me a saint or a pariah, but they cannot really decide what I feel morally obliged to do or not do. Anwya - I have to rush off now, but I do think its fascinatiing - and if yo ugoogle "Moral Obligation Obey Law" you find a lot of papers written on teh subject and it appears that great minds in this area have always and no doubt will alwyas disagree on what the answer is....
CdB Btd and WtF etc
[Btd] Blimey. Thank you very much. I know we talked about CdB and LiR, but what the hell did we say? He's a scary-looking man, anyhow.
[pen] He looks very smug, doesn't he? Always very smug. I wonder what on earth he can find to be smug about.
Sabogy
It's not a bad name for a game, but I wonder what it would be?
Sabogy
attempts to bogey a sabotage come to mind, but I don't know what that is either.
[St D] I wasn't advocating "blind obedience"! On the contrary, I said that there may be times when one is morally obliged to break the law if doing so would bring about more good or prevent more harm. But I do think that if this is not the case one is morally obliged to obey the law, simply from the fact that laws are made by the society which we are part of and from which we benefit. Read Plato's Crito for a rather more extreme defence of this (Socrates argues that one should never break the law, even an unjust one, for this reason).
[Darren] I think most philosophers, at least, would say that a moral value is not a belief, because you believe a proposition (eg "There is a God" or "Tony Blair is a jolly nice chap") but moral values are not really propositions. They may look like propositions (eg "It is wrong to murder") but this is simply a linguistic quirk. The reason is that moral statements don't simply express a fact, they prescribe an obligation - they state what you should do, rather than how things are. This is why many people think that expressions of morality are basically the same as expressions of taste, so that "Murder is wrong" is no more a statement of fact - and therefore no more a belief as such - than "This picture is nice". This probably isn't really very relevant to the discussion, though. I'm just feeling pretentious. But is it objectively true that I am?
[Darren] I think most philosophers, at least, would say that a moral value is not a belief, because you believe a proposition (eg "There is a God" or "Tony Blair is a jolly nice chap") but moral values are not really propositions. They may look like propositions (eg "It is wrong to murder") but this is simply a linguistic quirk. The reason is that moral statements don't simply express a fact, they prescribe an obligation - they state what you should do, rather than how things are. This is why many people think that expressions of morality are basically the same as expressions of taste, so that "Murder is wrong" is no more a statement of fact - and therefore no more a belief as such - than "This picture is nice". This probably isn't really very relevant to the discussion, though. I'm just feeling pretentious. But is it objectively true that I am?
Sabogies
's a bogey, innit, like, summin 's up yer nose.
Call my Sabogy
I would agree with Raak in that it is a shortened phrase almost a slang, it really originates from the estates in Glasgow, in their misunderstanding of what a bidet is for. As in
young child, "Wha's tha da?"
Jimmy "Sabogy"
young child, "Wha's tha da?"
Jimmy "Sabogy"
blind obedience
BM] Fair point - sorry I missed that. I still feel that I side with teh school of thought that says we are not morally obliged to do anything really. Especially not simply obey laws because they are laws. I generally do and will obey laws, I hasten to add.
[St D] So if we are not morally obliged to do anything, would you say that if, for example, you found yourself on a desert island with an extremely annoying companion, and if (by hypothesis) there were no way for your actions ever to be discovered or punished, there would be no moral reason for you not to murder him and make kebabs? I should probably add that I'm inclined to agree that there is no such thing, really, as objective moral obligation, so when I talk about the obligation to obey laws I'm really just speaking for myself. But I'd be interested to see how you answer this one.
[BM] I don't agree with you when you say moral values are not beliefs. When they state what you should do, that's just another way of saying they state how you believe you should act. It's a matter of semantics, and at any rate I do agree that it's probably not enormously relevant. Incidentally, are you claiming that beliefs express fact? That's patently false. The difference between a belief and a fact is that, whereas a person may hold both to be true, the former need not be objectively true. Person A believes there is a god. Person B believes there is no god. How can both their beliefs equal objective fact at the same time?
Kebabs
(BreadM) The moral force behind not murdering your extremely irritating (but presumably unthreatening) companion is that you yourself would not like to be kebabbed. That is an absolute but the example you give is easy to evaluate. Not everything is quite so straightforward.
dead meat
BM] No I wouldn't say that at all. What I (think I am) saying is that there is not really, in my view, a moral imperative to obey a law simply because it is a law. I wouldn't kill someone by who was annoying for kebabs, even if I would never be found out, purely because of I suppose, the "moral reason" that you shouldn't kill people. As it so happens, there is no "practical" reason not to kill the annoying person [assuming that you aren't worried about being lonely or whatever], as the fact that there is to be no come back on it at all has removed the practical reason to not kill someone - because it is against the law and you may end up in the nick. What I think is that the moral obligations that a person feels rest pretty much the same irrespective of what laws exist or are being prepared or are being updated.
If a new law is brought in saying "You can't smoke in pubs" for example, I would not smoke in pubs because I was being asked not to by the Landlord, not because it was against the law. If I was in a pub where the landlord and all the customers were smoking, then I would smoke too. This actually happened in California a year or so ago - having slowly got used to not smoking in bars, I was in Lone Pine (nr Death Valley) and was about to light up at the bar. I stopped myself and said "Forgot I was ion California, sorry" and the barmaid laughed, pulled out an ashtray and said "This is Lone Pine, Honey".
If a new law is brought in saying "You can't smoke in pubs" for example, I would not smoke in pubs because I was being asked not to by the Landlord, not because it was against the law. If I was in a pub where the landlord and all the customers were smoking, then I would smoke too. This actually happened in California a year or so ago - having slowly got used to not smoking in bars, I was in Lone Pine (nr Death Valley) and was about to light up at the bar. I stopped myself and said "Forgot I was ion California, sorry" and the barmaid laughed, pulled out an ashtray and said "This is Lone Pine, Honey".
[Darren] I don't think Bm was suggesting that beliefs were facts, more that they are ideas about what is. Ideas about what ought to be are a whole other class. I think it's overoptimistic to hope that any system of law will be an encoding of some sort of consistent moral philosophy. This is not least because there are usually contradictory premises even where the law is set out from first principles, leaving Supreme Courts to scratch their heads and deliver hung verdicts. The law represents just an accretive set of some morals some people had at some points in history (which is not to say it's arbitrary, just tremendously compromised by the practical realities of how it is made). My naive working assumption is usually that whoever made the law did so for the general benefit, so it's better to have obedience as the default position. There are also laws (such as speed limits) where an arbitrary line was drawn which could as easily have been drawn somewhere else (there's nothing intrinsically safer about 70mph over 71mph), but the benefit for all in drawing a line is that it gives a common framework, arbitrary though it may be, that enables drivers to make consistent calculations about risk and behaviour - so the law is worth obeying on a "what if everyone broke it?" sort of basis, I think. [Bm] I'm with you: no objective force for morals. One can easily chip away any moral principle (if you're willing to take an unpopular position) by questioning the source of its authority. You can chip away at facts in this way too, usually by resorting to that undergraduate nuclear option, the epistemological question, but it does strike me as harder.
Epistemology
(Projoy) It's an awful long time since I was an undergraduate, so what is The epistemological question? And, presuming you answer, how do you know that?
The epistomological question is "Ah, but how can you know anything?" and one usually sees it used when its invoker has lost the argument. :)
[Projoy] I doubt anybody really has a consistent moral philosophy. I certainly don't. I'm not entirely sure your view of laws is any different from mine. We just worded it differently. At any rate, I also agree there is no objective force for morals. Oh, and the loser in invoking The epistemological question is probably the highbrow equivalent of Godwin's Law.
I used to think that morality was no more than personal preference, delusionally experienced (as our perceptions usually are) as external to oneself. What else could moral statements be, since they are not demonstrable matters of fact? These days I'm not so sure, mainly due to personal experience that I don't think I can describe. A third possibility is that they are indemonstrable matters of fact, which is C.S. Lewis' position in "The Abolition of Man", which I mentioned here recently. They can be learned only by certain experiences, but the experience cannot be communicated. They cannot even be demonstrated to oneself, only lived by or not.
[Darren] Projoy answered it for me really, but yes, I meant that beliefs are about propositions, which may be true or false. A proposition is the thing that, if it is true, is a fact. And I do think that moral views are not beliefs, because they are not about propositions. It may be linguistically acceptable to say "X is wrong" but I don't think that that expresses a real proposition, because it's not something that can really be true or false. It's a commonplace now that ought cannot be reduced to is, because there is something about a prescription that is not simply a factual statement - it is, in a sense, an order. Quite what that non-factual element is, though, is a matter of debate.
[Rosie] But what has what I would like got to do with it? On the contrary, one might say that my own desire to remain unkebabed is all the more reason to kebabify the other chap, for fear of his doing it to me first (since he finds me just as irritating as I do him, and no wonder). Of course, I don't know if you're supported St D's position as originally expressed that we are not morally obliged to do anything, or aiming to refute it.
[St D] So then in fact you do think we have moral obligations? I thought you meant that we don't at all - presumably you meant only with regard to obeying the law? In which case I apologise for misunderstanding you.
I almost simulposted with Raak, and it's funny because I think I'm increasingly drawn to the view he says he now doesn't share, which is odd because normally you'd think we'd be the other way around!
[Rosie] But what has what I would like got to do with it? On the contrary, one might say that my own desire to remain unkebabed is all the more reason to kebabify the other chap, for fear of his doing it to me first (since he finds me just as irritating as I do him, and no wonder). Of course, I don't know if you're supported St D's position as originally expressed that we are not morally obliged to do anything, or aiming to refute it.
[St D] So then in fact you do think we have moral obligations? I thought you meant that we don't at all - presumably you meant only with regard to obeying the law? In which case I apologise for misunderstanding you.
I almost simulposted with Raak, and it's funny because I think I'm increasingly drawn to the view he says he now doesn't share, which is odd because normally you'd think we'd be the other way around!
[Projoy] My rule of thumb is that when someone questions the possibility of knowing the truth of anything, there is some specific truth they are trying very hard to ignore.
[Bm] What view are you moving away from, if I may ask?
[BM] I understand your argument now. A belief is a proposition which must be objectively true or false, whereas a moral value is based on something subjective... I do see where you're coming from, but I'm still not entirely comfortable with it. It seems almost a logical positivist approach to belief - that something can only be a belief if its accuracy can be objectively determined. So what of the question of whether there is a god? Is there a way of determining if there is a god or not? If not, then belief in a god can't be a belief. If you disagree with this, why is it less acceptable for "X is wrong" to be a proposition than "there is a god"? If you agree with it, then is religion in general a set moral values rather than a set of beliefs?
I meant "a set of moral values" rather than "a set moral values" of course.
Ooh, it's getting gritty now...
[Raak] I didn't really have a view to move away from, to be honest. This is partly because I always found ethics by far the dullest area of philosophy and never formally did it. I suppose the view I'm moving away from is the view that there is any sense in which "X is right/wrong" is objectively true or even objectively anything. It may be possible for it to be objectively something, but I'm not sure what, and if it's not truth then I'm not really interested.
[Darren] Oh no, I'm no logical positivist, a position I think is pretty silly (for the uninitiated, this is the view that something can be true only if it can be shown to be true). I don't say that we can't know the truth value of ethical propositions, therefore they can't be true. Rather, I say that they are not propositions at all. They are not stating facts (or falsehoods) of any kind. Thus they differ from the proposition you give of "There is a God," which I certainly think (a) cannot be shown to be either true or false, but (b) is either true or false. That's an unverifiable proposition, but "X is wrong" isn't really a proposition at all, even though it looks like one. Part of the reason I think this is that I cannot imagine how a world in which "X is wrong" is true differs from a world in which "X is wrong" is false other than that one difference. But I think that if a proposition is true it must express something about actual things actually in the world - that is, facts are, as it were, parasitic upon things. So for "There is a God" to be true there would have to be an actual God, whilst for it to be false there would have to be none. But I don't know what kind of "thing" would have to be different for "X is false" to be a fact or a falsehood. Thus it's not merely that we don't know whether it's true or not, I don't think it means anything at all to say that it is true - that is, it's not the sort of thing that can be true. If you follow me.
[Raak] I didn't really have a view to move away from, to be honest. This is partly because I always found ethics by far the dullest area of philosophy and never formally did it. I suppose the view I'm moving away from is the view that there is any sense in which "X is right/wrong" is objectively true or even objectively anything. It may be possible for it to be objectively something, but I'm not sure what, and if it's not truth then I'm not really interested.
[Darren] Oh no, I'm no logical positivist, a position I think is pretty silly (for the uninitiated, this is the view that something can be true only if it can be shown to be true). I don't say that we can't know the truth value of ethical propositions, therefore they can't be true. Rather, I say that they are not propositions at all. They are not stating facts (or falsehoods) of any kind. Thus they differ from the proposition you give of "There is a God," which I certainly think (a) cannot be shown to be either true or false, but (b) is either true or false. That's an unverifiable proposition, but "X is wrong" isn't really a proposition at all, even though it looks like one. Part of the reason I think this is that I cannot imagine how a world in which "X is wrong" is true differs from a world in which "X is wrong" is false other than that one difference. But I think that if a proposition is true it must express something about actual things actually in the world - that is, facts are, as it were, parasitic upon things. So for "There is a God" to be true there would have to be an actual God, whilst for it to be false there would have to be none. But I don't know what kind of "thing" would have to be different for "X is false" to be a fact or a falsehood. Thus it's not merely that we don't know whether it's true or not, I don't think it means anything at all to say that it is true - that is, it's not the sort of thing that can be true. If you follow me.
[Bm] (I assume that your last "X is false" was a misprint for "X is wrong"?) According to the view I am suggesting without necessarily being committed to, what would be different for "X is wrong" to be a fact or a falsehood would be that those with moral insight would agree that X was or was not wrong. That doesn't advance things much, but moves the question to "How does one acquire moral insight?" And also "How can people claiming different moral insights reach agreement on moral facts?"
I just want to correct "those with moral insight would agree" to "those with moral insight would see".
[Raak] Yes, the typesetters did me wrong. I think you're going to have to elaborate somewhat on your suggestion, though. If the sole difference between "X is wrong" being true and false is whether those with moral insight think it is, then that doesn't seem to me to be a very strong claim. Are you basically saying that things are right/wrong because most people (or most appropriate people) think so? But clearly this is quite different from normal propositions - for example, "Jupiter is the largest planet in the solar system" isn't true or false by majority opinion, and neither is "There is a God." Normally we think of propositions being things that people recognise the truth or falsity of, rather than things that they determine the truth or falsity of. Alternatively, if you think that those with moral insight are in fact not determining rightness/wrongness but recognising it, then that begs the question on what grounds these people see that X is right or wrong. Do they just "see" it with Enlightenment-style infallible conscience, with no further explanation? This is quite apart from the problem you suggest yourself, which is how to recognise those with authentic moral insight, and how to deal with the problem of disagreement over morality.
[Raak] I know you're not fully taking the position that there are naturally some people with greater moral authority, but it's interesting to compare with the libertarian worldview which (without knowing much about it) I would have thought would rely on the idea that morality is personal and subjective.
As you say, it doesn't advance things much to suppose there are those with moral insight, since it's basically a deferral of the question about the source of any objective morality. For "God", read "the enlightened". You thus can't move on to asking "how does one acquire moral insight?" without committing to the belief that there is such a thing, so a leap of faith would seem to be required. Definitely not one I'm prepared to make based on my experiences.
As you say, it doesn't advance things much to suppose there are those with moral insight, since it's basically a deferral of the question about the source of any objective morality. For "God", read "the enlightened". You thus can't move on to asking "how does one acquire moral insight?" without committing to the belief that there is such a thing, so a leap of faith would seem to be required. Definitely not one I'm prepared to make based on my experiences.
[Bm] Moral propositions (in the view I'm setting out) aren't true by virtue of being believed, they are true objectively, and those able to see them believe because they see them. How do they do this? Well, how do you (for example) recognise the ordinary physical objects around you? There's no "how" involved that we can say anything useful about (at least not until non-invasive brain scanning technology improves in resolution by many orders of magnitude). The same for moral perception. How people get to be able to have moral perceptions is more answerable in the here and now: upbringing, spontaneous revelation, or learning from enlightened people.
[Projoy] If there is such a thing as moral authority at all, then some people will have more of it than others. I don't know where that "naturally" comes from: if it's an elite, it's one that anyone can join, the same as authority about temporal matters. There is indeed an act of faith involved: the faith that there are objective morals. But there is also an act of faith involved in the perception of physical truths. The main difference between the two is that most people's physical senses function at a high enough level that it is easy for all to agree on simple physical statements, while the same degree of consensus is lacking in the moral realm. One difference, at any rate. Another is that people are much more attached to their moral judgements than their physical ones.
[Projoy] If there is such a thing as moral authority at all, then some people will have more of it than others. I don't know where that "naturally" comes from: if it's an elite, it's one that anyone can join, the same as authority about temporal matters. There is indeed an act of faith involved: the faith that there are objective morals. But there is also an act of faith involved in the perception of physical truths. The main difference between the two is that most people's physical senses function at a high enough level that it is easy for all to agree on simple physical statements, while the same degree of consensus is lacking in the moral realm. One difference, at any rate. Another is that people are much more attached to their moral judgements than their physical ones.
Our three chief weapons are...
Upbringing, spontaneous revelation, learning from enlightened people...or arriving at them by working them out oneself.
fundamental philosophical talk
[Raak] True, there needn't be a "naturally" although of course in the case of perception of reality there are real reasons why some people are naturally better at intuitive perception of reality than others (a minor example is perfect pitch). We don't necessarily know the nuts 'n' bolts reasons for these differences but it is something we can say with some confidence based on the level of agreement about reality and different people's success at perceiving intuitively that which we can independently verify: I sing a note. JLE says it's A, I play an A on the piano and it corroborates his statement. But crucially his doing this does not allow me to learn perfect pitch from him. If accurate perception of some kind of objective morality is a higher order skill of this type, it's then a reasonable speculation there probably is a hierarchy of people's ability to perceive moral absolutes.
In the case of morality this strikes me as considerably wilder speculation than making the same statement about perfect pitch. This might be for anthropic reasons, of course, but if so your line of reasoning becomes rather depressing for those who don't sense an objective morality, since it suggests they are missing something big and are never going to perceive it! (Slartibartfast would say, "Oh, no, that's just paranoia. Everyone in the Universe has that.")
In the case of morality this strikes me as considerably wilder speculation than making the same statement about perfect pitch. This might be for anthropic reasons, of course, but if so your line of reasoning becomes rather depressing for those who don't sense an objective morality, since it suggests they are missing something big and are never going to perceive it! (Slartibartfast would say, "Oh, no, that's just paranoia. Everyone in the Universe has that.")
addendum
...and of course something else follows from that line of reasoning, which is that if one is to have the best system of law, there are objectively people who are qualified to legislate and indeed, such a thing as government with objective moral force, whom we lesser mortals are insufficiently equipped to judge!
Absolute pitch
(Projoy) If intuitive means "knowing without thinking" then absolute pitch is intuitive. I have it, and always have had, and I can't quite understand why anybody who's had access to a musical instrument at an early age and is musical hasn't got it. It is, in my view, only a form of memory, motivated by a strong interest in the subject. Maybe its rarity is due to it having little evolutionary or survival advantage, unlike colour recognition. It's not much help, especially these days, to know that ex-GWR steam engines whistle in A flat (1st leger line above the treble).
(Projoy) Just seen your addendum. There are indeed people who are qualified to legislate, not because they have any superior sense of morality but because they understand the nuts and bolts of legislation and its effects (sometimes). Furthermore, we have asked them to do it, this being some sort of democracy.
[Projoy] But there are people who don't sense morality. They're highly exceptional: we call them psychopaths. Not sensing the objectiveness of morality or not believing in its objectiveness are different, and don't disqualify anyone from sensing morality. As for legislation, possessing sound moral judgement does not give anyone a right to order other people around. Indeed, the delusion that "if only everyone acted as I think they ought to the world would run a lot better, therefore they should be made to act like that" is a pretty clear sign of moral immaturity.
pitch black
[Rosie] I think we did this discussion before and established that color recognition isn't really analogous to pitch recognition (because we can point at something and say "yellow", even when it's in shadow in a way that lowers the frequency to something we'd normally call brown). In a similar way, I hear a note in the context of a tune and can say "submedian" even if I can't say "Bb" or whatever it happens to be. Perhaps there is a window of opportunity very early in life to acquire perfect pitch (I'd be interested to know if there's any evidence that people who learn an instrument from, say, 4, are x times more likely to have perfect pitch than those who only start at 7, say), but from my perspective, I certainly don't think it's related to level of interest. An old music teacher of mine used to talk about an academic colleague of hers who was so envious of others' perfect pitch that he tried to learn it. He would play a note on the piano at the top of the college building then walk to the basement, brushing aside all attempts to engage him in conversation, all the while humming the note under his breath until he reached the piano in the basement. I understand he never achieved his goal :). [re: legislators] Yes, but good legislators can do their job in the absence of any moral principles. If someone told them to draft a law that compels everyone to kill their neigbour they could do that just as easily as drafting an obviously moral law. What Raak and Bm and Darren and I are speculating about is whether there are people objectively better qualified to frame the moral basis of legislation.
[Projoy] I don't think that's what I'm speculating about. (For what it's worth, I don't think any one person is more qualified to frame the moral basis of legislation than any other. To err is human, after all, and it strikes me that in order to define morality one must be infallible and therefore above the reach of mere morality. Am I making any sense or just rambling incoherently?) What I'm speculating about is whether morality and belief are the same thing. I suspect I may have to agree to disagree with Bm over that, because I'm still not convinced by his argument. The thing is, I'm reminded of Hofstadter, where he was talking about how a rock smashing a space probe may seem like a waste to us, but to a sufficiently intelligent race it may seem obvious that that's the most appropriate thing that can be done to it. The point I'm making is that just because humanity can't objectively decide whether X is wrong or right morally, it doesn't mean there isn't an absolute answer to the question which could be answered definitively by an intelligence with greater insight than ours, with rock-solid logical backup and an appropriate set of side-effects. Again, maybe that makes no sense at all. Part of the reason for saying all this is to expose the underlying thoughts which are running through my mind as I write these posts just to see if anything falls apart when they're examined more closely.
The connection with logical propositions is that, as it seems to me, Bm's definition of belief as logical proposition implies that something becomes a moral value if it can't be stated as a logical proposition as far as human intelligence is aware, whereas I don't draw any distinction simply on the basis of the limit of human awareness. Perhaps that's the difference between Bm's position and mine. Perhaps I'm being needlessly mystical about the whole thing.
Can someone have a more-well-tuned moral compass than others? Certainly. But was Gandhi's sense of morality "nature", and Siddartha Guatama's sense of morality "nurture"? (That is, a matter of learned experience vs. innate sensibility.) And of course, those who are inclined to seek public office are generally the least suited to holding public office! [Rosie] I would think that perfect pitch cannot be learned, because even though the cochlea can pass along a B flat vibration, the brain still has to define the vibration. [Raak] Psycho/sociopaths are not lacking in a sense of morality. In fact, they can be highly moral people when it applies to actions against themselves. Their issue lies in the fact that they do not understand the concept of "other", as in, there are other people out there who do exist; and this lack of understanding regarding "otherness" evidences itself to the rest of us as a lack of morality. Which I think is a good argument for morality itself being a learned ability (in that it requires an observer to define Moral and Not-moral).
Morality vs Belief
dictionary.com: morality: The quality of being in accord with standards of right or good conduct. belief: Mental acceptance of and conviction in the truth, actuality, or validity of something Now, having said that, how does it apply? One must BELIEVE that one's MORAL STANDARDS are a TRUTH in order for one to have faith in one's morality. (Because if you don't have believe in the verity of your own morality, everything falls apart. "The center cannot hold!")
I should just explain that I brought Stina here.
[Stina] (Hi.) Isn't that circular? Faith in one's morality is the same thing as believing that it is true. To argue on the other side for the moment, one can lead a perfectly moral life while having no such faith in the existence of any objective standard. I have preferences about the way I want to live, and about the way I would like other people to live. But whether I regard these preferences as no more than preferences, or as perceptions of moral truths, in either case I can't prove to anyone else that they should behave the way I think they ought to. The most I can do is argue that living in such and such a way will benefit them in their terms.
[Stina] Welcome! But no - if anything, you must believe that your moral standards are normative, not that they are true. As I argue, moral standards are not the kind of things that are "true". A moral statement is like an imperative. You wouldn't say that "Go to your room!" is true any more than it is false. It just is. The point is that moral statements ultimately boil down to injunctions of that form, even if they are disguised as statements of fact. So "X is wrong" is really "Don't do X!" in disguise. Why? Because to put it another way, statements of morality are things that you can obey or disobey. You can react to a fact or a proposition in any number of ways, but you can't obey or disobey it. Moral claims aren't like that - they invite - indeed demand - obedience in some way. And an injunction like that is not the kind of thing that can be true or false. The task for the believer in objective morality is to explain in what sense an injunction can be "objective", if it is not in the same sense that a fact can be objective. This is why I disagree with Darren. I'm not saying that moral statements aren't propositions because we don't understand how they can be, and that a greater intelligence than ours could see how they are. I don't think that they are propositions at all, and it doesn't matter how transcendent you are. A hyper-intelligent pan-dimensional being wouldn't ask what the truth-value of a moral statement is, any more than it would ask how heavy a shadow is or what colour 1815 was, because it recognise that to do so is to make a category mistake, that is, to treat something of one category as if it belonged to another. I think that those who ask whether a moral statement is true or false, or assert that it is, are making just such a category mistake.
[Raak] It seems to me that the question of who can recognise moral truth, and how, is something of a distraction from the main question, which is what "moral truth" is in the first place, and how it can exist if the points I've made are valid. If a moral statement does not express a proposition at all, let alone a true one, then what does it express? Taking for granted that there are some people who can recognise it, what are they recognising, quite apart from the question of how?
[Raak] It seems to me that the question of who can recognise moral truth, and how, is something of a distraction from the main question, which is what "moral truth" is in the first place, and how it can exist if the points I've made are valid. If a moral statement does not express a proposition at all, let alone a true one, then what does it express? Taking for granted that there are some people who can recognise it, what are they recognising, quite apart from the question of how?
[Breadmaster] Well, as I said, I suspect we may have to agree to disagree on that. I see no problem with asking what colour 1815 is, or indeed with the proposition "1815 is green." There may not be many ways of reasoning with it, and certainly it might be hard to prove it one way or another (short of formalised synaesthesia!) but I don't happen to believe that those issues prevent it being true or false. If it's a category mistake, then no number/year has a property equivalent to colour, and the statement is false. It's still a proposition.
You said earlier that "ought" does not reduce to "is." Fair enough, but you then say "X is wrong" is really "Don't do X!" in disguise, or, to put it another way, "One ought not X." Surely you're self-contradicting here. At any rate, I fundamentally disagree that just because (if we allow this, which I wouldn't) "X is wrong" may be written "don't do X", that it must always be treated as "don't do X," and that the "X is wrong" form must be disregarded.
[Bm] Well, I'm arguing, or rather exploring the hypothesis, because I think there's some mileage in it, that moral statements are propositions. They are truth claims about the moral universe. The normative consequence -- you should do that which is good, and avoid doing that which is evil -- is a secondary matter. Someone who perceives the moral truth does not have to bludgeon himself with "shoulds" into acting accordingly, he will do so as an inevitable conequence of seeing the truth, the same as he will step out of the way of an onrushing car when he perceives it, and for the same reason.
Pitch and putt
(Projoy) You can't learn absolute pitch, or unlearn it either, which is one reason I play the trombone. All the other blowing instruments in a jazz band are transposing and if I read a C I don't want to hear a Bb, and certainly not an Eb (alto and baritone sax). Trombone is written in bass clef, which results in an impressive stack of leger lines for the high notes. If it's on a space and "in the stratosphere" it's a C (octave above middle C). Otherwise it's a D (hopefully a Db) which I can just about do with a following wind. Why don't they just go into treble clef? Because they don't. Maybe not all trombonists are pianists.
Lost in space....................
Never trust a Vogon when it comes to directions.I've been stuck in the plorii system for the last 8 months!!! But now I'm back...........
To answer my own question re: perfect pitch, I googled a paper which says: "we also observed a significant association between AP and the age at which an individual first began playing music. For the AP group as a whole, the mean age of starting musical activities was 5.4 ± 2.8 years, whereas, for the non-AP group, the mean age was 7.9 ± 3.2 years (P < .0001)."
Also, it says, perfect pitch is far more common in Oriental people.
[Projoy] But -- as they also point out, I'm glad to see -- the causation could easily run the other way.
[Bm, Raak, Darren, et al] This is a *great* discussion; one from which I am really learning.
[Bm, Raak, Darren, et al] This is a *great* discussion; one from which I am really learning.
Perfect pitch
I had perfect pitch as a child, but not being a musician, I've never used it, and the skill seems to have decayed. I just tried whistling a middle C, and it turned out to be a tone flat. But maybe I'm channelling Baroque pitch, concert pitch having been invented to boost the E-string industry.
[widey] But we've been here all the time :o) Good to see you back!
Whistling Middle C
I'm not surprised you can't whistle Middle C; you'd need a head the size of a space hopper to do that. Do you mean an octave higher, or maybe even two? As to baroque pitch, I once heard Handel's Messiah sung to the accompaniment of old instruments, as it turned out. "Why are these buggers in D flat?", I was muttering until the penny dropped. Baroque pitch is about 3/4 of a semitone down on concert. (A = 422 or so).
Questions, questions....
What CdM said, first of all - it's this sort of discussion, as much the games, that keeps me coing back to the Morniverse. I do have a couple of questions- probably daft ones, but I'll lob them in anyway
Raak] If moral statements are propositions - objective truths like gravity or the earth being round - then shouldn't we as a species have discovered some of them by now? And how exact are they? Do you mean general statements like the Ten Commandments, or more specific ones? And if they are objective truths, then surely they admit no exceptions? Which is somewhat problematic - the proposition likely to get the greatest assent is probably "You shall not kill", but if pushed, most people would admit to believing some caveats to even that one (just wars, self-defence, etc).
Darren] There's a convention called Pantone numbers in printing, where you tell a printer the exact shade of green you want by quoting the Pantone number. Inside that convention, the statement that "1815 is green" is objectively true or false. That convention works because everyone who uses it agrees that the rule-set exists, and that the person or people who defined the rule-set have the right to do so. What I'd question about the idea that "1815 is green" in the wider world is - how do we know that the rule-set exists, and who made it?
Lastly (and without stopping this discussion) could I advance the moral proposition that CdM has won the current round of AVMA, and that he should tell us the answer and set another one?
Raak] If moral statements are propositions - objective truths like gravity or the earth being round - then shouldn't we as a species have discovered some of them by now? And how exact are they? Do you mean general statements like the Ten Commandments, or more specific ones? And if they are objective truths, then surely they admit no exceptions? Which is somewhat problematic - the proposition likely to get the greatest assent is probably "You shall not kill", but if pushed, most people would admit to believing some caveats to even that one (just wars, self-defence, etc).
Darren] There's a convention called Pantone numbers in printing, where you tell a printer the exact shade of green you want by quoting the Pantone number. Inside that convention, the statement that "1815 is green" is objectively true or false. That convention works because everyone who uses it agrees that the rule-set exists, and that the person or people who defined the rule-set have the right to do so. What I'd question about the idea that "1815 is green" in the wider world is - how do we know that the rule-set exists, and who made it?
Lastly (and without stopping this discussion) could I advance the moral proposition that CdM has won the current round of AVMA, and that he should tell us the answer and set another one?
[Irouléguy] Here is one account of the moral Way (although I think it leaves out a significant area, one's responsibility towards oneself). Does the law of gravity admit of exceptions? Yet iron ships float, planes fly, and Voyager is escaping the solar system, and for well-understood reasons. Anyone touting a verbal formula as the truth, whether in the scientific realm or the moral realm, has already fallen into error.
[Irouléguy] Even if an objective rule-set exists, it doesn't need a maker, unless you want to be creationist about it, or you want to take the view that all mappings are abstract constructs formed by the human mind, in which case there's no such thing as a natural rule-set, but nor does there have to be a single named maker as such things can be built up over time. At any rate, there is no need for "1815 is green" as a logical proposition to say anything about the wider world (the meaning and nature of which we could debate for many centuries), because, apart from the fact that we could be talking about all kinds of symbolism, the proposition in itself is a kind of proposed mapping between 1815ness and greenness. It doesn't have to be objectively true or false, but what we do have to be able to say is, if we had enough data, we could determine whether it was true or false. In other words, we don't need a rule-set, because the proposition itself, if true, implies the existence of one. If false, however, it says nothing about the existence or non-existence of a rule-set, although if there is no rule-set, the proposition is not a proposition because it cannot be true or false. In the same way, by saying "X is wrong" as a proposed mapping from the concept of X to the concept of wrongness, we don't necessarily say there *is* an objective mapping of actions to moral evaluations, but for "X is wrong" to be objectively true there must be such a mapping. However, just because we can't tell objectively at this stage whether such a rule-set may or may not exist, that doesn't mean that "X is wrong" stops being a proposition. I think Breadmaster's position, in this sense, is that such a rule-set is impossible and so by definition no proposition which purports to use it can have meaning, because it is neither true nor false, and therefore fails to qualify as a proposition. If it can be shown that there is definitively no rule-set, then I agree with Breadmaster that such things aren't propositions. I'm just not entirely convinced that such a rule-set is impossible, even if it is beyond human knowledge. How far this gets us into the question of morality I don't know!
Actually, I said above "There is no objective force for morals," so I've contradicted myself. OK. Let me put it like this, if there is no objective force for morals (as I clearly thought a couple of days ago!) then Breadmaster is correct and my arguments have fallen apart.
The funny thing is, this discussion has made me question in myself whether I really believe there is no such thing as objective morality, and I can't really say for certain one way or the other. Within the human world, I don't think there is anyone who has in themselves, or has determined in some other way, an objective sense or code of morality. So, I suppose I'll have to fall in line with Breadmaster's view that moral values are not logical propositions. Well done Bm! Certainly made me understand my reasoning a bit more.
[CdM] So having perfect pitch makes you Oriental! I always suspected this was the case! :)
[Raak] I understand that you're suggesting your personal insights into this come from experiences which you can't describe here, so you are rather hamstrung in terms of pursuing this hypothesis of objective morality, at least in this forum. But I am inclined to ask you some skeptical, pedantic questions, such as what a "moral universe" is, how you think the whole thing might work (in just the way you can't find here). If a moral intuiter steps out of the way of immoral actions because they perceive risk to themself (as in your car analogy), that is one thing (but implies self-interest being at the heart of morality, which would make it subjective, surely?); if a moral intuiter senses moral danger, what sort of process do you speculate might be going on in their heads that doesn't appear to go on in mine? Further, if you have some experience of this, maybe - without having to talk about the experience - you could tentatively specify an example of an objective moral rule...?
[Projoy] I knew someone was going to say that.
[Darren] Yayy! Thank you. By the way, I inexplicably can't access this page (alone of all in the Morniverse) from work any more, it seems, which is why I fell silent. Bear in mind that even moral statements are not propositions, it does not necessarily follow that they are not universally applicable. "Don't murder!" could be normative for everyone even though it does not express an objective fact. Perhaps there could be "objective commands". But what those could be, and how they could be, I don't know, and explaining them is a task for someone else.
[Raak] You surely know that your gravity analogy doesn't apply! Floating ships and space probes aren't "breaking" the law of gravity any more than I am when I hold my leg in the air before taking a step. Rather, the law of gravity is simply one of many physical laws which are inter-related, or interact. But that's beside the point. More to the point is that even the list you link to contains much that is arguable. I, for example, don't set much stock by "duties to ancestors" even though the average Confucian might regard it as a central moral imperative. There is nothing that has been universally accepted as a moral imperative, and even if there were, it wouldn't prove anything other than that people all thought it was right. The most such things can show is that human beings have evolved - either biologically or socially - to think that certain things are right or wrong, presumably because those who didn't think this didn't develop stable societies. Thus most people think that murder is wrong because if they didn't they wouldn't have survived. We can therefore explain moral imperatives - or at least their basic outlines - quite adequately in a historical or evolutionary way, without needing to posit that moral views express some kind of "truth" about the world. And the sorts of questions that Projoy asks indicate that there are big problems with the view that they do. After all, there are many people who think that there are moral facts, but no-one seems able to agree what they are. Is abortion a fundamental right or is it one of the blackest crimes there is? The fact that people disagree doesn't prove that there isn't a matter of fact at dispute, of course, but it does raise the question - how, even in principle, could the dispute be settled? What "evidence" (even if in practice it could not be collected) would prove it one way or the other?
Another point that might be relevant - the Tao website states that "For those who do not perceive its rationality, even universal consent could not prove it." Well, I'm afraid I don't perceive its rationality. I may perceive its utility or practical application. But David Hume pointed out that morality isn't to do with rationality, and vice versa - he said something like "There is nothing irrational about my preferring the destruction of the entire universe to the scratching of my finger," and he was right - such a preference may be morally wrong in whatever sense you have of the word, or it may be highly unuseful, but it's not, strictly speaking, irrational.
[Raak] You surely know that your gravity analogy doesn't apply! Floating ships and space probes aren't "breaking" the law of gravity any more than I am when I hold my leg in the air before taking a step. Rather, the law of gravity is simply one of many physical laws which are inter-related, or interact. But that's beside the point. More to the point is that even the list you link to contains much that is arguable. I, for example, don't set much stock by "duties to ancestors" even though the average Confucian might regard it as a central moral imperative. There is nothing that has been universally accepted as a moral imperative, and even if there were, it wouldn't prove anything other than that people all thought it was right. The most such things can show is that human beings have evolved - either biologically or socially - to think that certain things are right or wrong, presumably because those who didn't think this didn't develop stable societies. Thus most people think that murder is wrong because if they didn't they wouldn't have survived. We can therefore explain moral imperatives - or at least their basic outlines - quite adequately in a historical or evolutionary way, without needing to posit that moral views express some kind of "truth" about the world. And the sorts of questions that Projoy asks indicate that there are big problems with the view that they do. After all, there are many people who think that there are moral facts, but no-one seems able to agree what they are. Is abortion a fundamental right or is it one of the blackest crimes there is? The fact that people disagree doesn't prove that there isn't a matter of fact at dispute, of course, but it does raise the question - how, even in principle, could the dispute be settled? What "evidence" (even if in practice it could not be collected) would prove it one way or the other?
Another point that might be relevant - the Tao website states that "For those who do not perceive its rationality, even universal consent could not prove it." Well, I'm afraid I don't perceive its rationality. I may perceive its utility or practical application. But David Hume pointed out that morality isn't to do with rationality, and vice versa - he said something like "There is nothing irrational about my preferring the destruction of the entire universe to the scratching of my finger," and he was right - such a preference may be morally wrong in whatever sense you have of the word, or it may be highly unuseful, but it's not, strictly speaking, irrational.
[Projoy] Self-interest is at work in stepping out of the path of a car, but that doesn't make it subjective in any useful sense. Everyone will step out of the way of that car, except only children who have not yet learned that it is dangerous, the drug-addled, and the suicidally depressed. This is only subjective to the degree that every thought we have is subjective. What is objective is that the car will kill you if you don't get out of the way. Opinions and wishes are irrelevant. Reality is like the Terminator: you can't reason with it, you can't argue with it. You only have power to choose your actions, not their consequences.
(Repeat earlier caveat that I'm taking this horse out for a ride to test its legs.)
Thus it is with morality. The enlightened do good and avoid evil, because, from their point of view, the first person that good acts benefit and evil acts harm is oneself, consequences as undeniable as traffic. It applies to everything from not mugging old ladies for their pension money to getting out of bed in the morning. The idea has a long pedigree, e.g. Socrates and the Buddhist canon (and in a debased form in the Religions Of The Book, where all the consequences are deferred to a supposed later life, despite the statement by one of their prophets that "the kingdom of heaven is within you"). It doesn't give instant answers to all questions, any more than the laws of physics will immediately tell you how to build a kilometer-tall skyscraper.
(Repeat earlier caveat that I'm taking this horse out for a ride to test its legs.)
Thus it is with morality. The enlightened do good and avoid evil, because, from their point of view, the first person that good acts benefit and evil acts harm is oneself, consequences as undeniable as traffic. It applies to everything from not mugging old ladies for their pension money to getting out of bed in the morning. The idea has a long pedigree, e.g. Socrates and the Buddhist canon (and in a debased form in the Religions Of The Book, where all the consequences are deferred to a supposed later life, despite the statement by one of their prophets that "the kingdom of heaven is within you"). It doesn't give instant answers to all questions, any more than the laws of physics will immediately tell you how to build a kilometer-tall skyscraper.
[Bm] You give two arguments that undercut each other: that there are no universally accepted moral principles, and that universally accepted moral principles arise for evolutionary reasons. You can't have it both ways, but I'll ride this horse over both of them anyway.
No scientific truth is universally accepted either, if you define "universally" narrowly enough. There are, nonetheless, substantial areas of agreement on moral issues that can be found throughout all civilisations. That doesn't prove they are true (as Lewis himself says), merely that they exist. Perceiving their truth is a separate matter.
I could take the evolutionary explanation as evidence on my side -- the consequences of right and wrong action are exactly your presumed evolutionary pressures. Not getting run over is also evolutionarily adaptive, but that does not mean that personal decisions and the laws of physics have nothing to do with it.
How do you perceive the utility of the Way? If it is useful to follow the Way, what is it useful for? And what in turn is that useful for? Utility offers no foundation. Likewise rationality. Look hard enough, and all attempts to find foundations lead only to an infinite regress. Ideas can only justify ideas in terms of other ideas. Morality is about actions, and actions cannot be deduced from thoughts, any more than an ought from an is.
Hume also claimed not to see causation, but he wouldn't have survived to write his books if he hadn't dodged horse-drawn carts now and then.
[Raak] Maybe Hume was just very, very lucky.
[Raak] Your supposition that evil acts harm the doer is where it all falls down for me. Sort of repeating Bm's point, but a car will run people down according to the laws of physics, which can be reliably shown to operate universally (at least as far as we can observe), but mugging someone for their pension cannot be shown universally to have negative effects for the individual (unless you start invoking some unknowable afterlife or karma or whatever). In other words, some people get away with breaking moral rules, in just the way that a car can't get away with braking the rules of physics in order to save a life. There is merely a certain probability that a system of law exists that will make mugging disadvantageous to the perpetrator. This is not 100% (in fact taking human history as a whole, I'm tempted to speculate it is less than 50%). Is there any real evidence whatsoever to the contrary?
Getting away with murder
You might come back with the argument that the fact people get away with breaking moral rules is irrelevant to the truth of those rules, but if so then the truth of those rules is irrelevant to us if we are searching for objective standards, since the rules cannot be shown to have reliable consequences, and therefore do not admit of predictions.
I also think that rational suicide is a very interesting example in the objective/subjective debate, because it's always struck me as a very interesting example of higher-order thinking successfully overruling all the lower-order evolutionary thinking with which we come pre-installed. If our sense of objective morality rests on self-preservation, why would it admit of contradiction in this way?
I also think that rational suicide is a very interesting example in the objective/subjective debate, because it's always struck me as a very interesting example of higher-order thinking successfully overruling all the lower-order evolutionary thinking with which we come pre-installed. If our sense of objective morality rests on self-preservation, why would it admit of contradiction in this way?
Raak] (Following on from Breadmaster's reply) It's also the case that all of these moral traditions arose in societies whose rulers did not follow them, yet all of these moral traditions preached acceptance of those rulers. "Thou shalt not kill" actually become "Thou shalt not kill unless thou art the state". If these are absolute moralities, shouldn't the rulers obey them? And if the rulers are immoral, shouldn't the moral organise to get rid of them and impose the rule of the moral?
My second objection is that I don't see what makes these an objective rule-set, as opposed to the many other moral precepts you could have instead (for example, sexual equality, environmentalism).
Lastly, illustrating Projoy's point, I'm reminded by the weather of the Belloc (?) poem:
The rain it falleth on the just
And on the unjust fella
But more upon the just, because
The unjust stole the just's umbrella
One of the lessons of experience (both direct and indirect) is that crime or acting immorally very often does pay.
Darren] You're right to pick me up on the creationist implication of my argument (not at all what I think). I was with your argument all the way until "In other words, we don't need a rule-set, because the proposition itself, if true, implies the existence of one." I think that's circular reasoning, because the truth or otherwise of a proposition can only be tested by reference to a rule-set.
My second objection is that I don't see what makes these an objective rule-set, as opposed to the many other moral precepts you could have instead (for example, sexual equality, environmentalism).
Lastly, illustrating Projoy's point, I'm reminded by the weather of the Belloc (?) poem:
The rain it falleth on the just
And on the unjust fella
But more upon the just, because
The unjust stole the just's umbrella
One of the lessons of experience (both direct and indirect) is that crime or acting immorally very often does pay.
Darren] You're right to pick me up on the creationist implication of my argument (not at all what I think). I was with your argument all the way until "In other words, we don't need a rule-set, because the proposition itself, if true, implies the existence of one." I think that's circular reasoning, because the truth or otherwise of a proposition can only be tested by reference to a rule-set.
[Irouléguy] Not circular, but certainly flawed. We don't need, and nor can we infer the existence of, a universal rule-set, however we do need a rule-set which covers at least the special case(s) covered by the proposition we know to be true in order to test it, as you say, but we can say (and this is what I was getting at) that if the proposition is true, then such a special-case rule-set must exist, even if its only rule is the true proposition itself. Bringing in the special-case rule-sets, a proof that there is no universal rule-set doesn't discount the possibility of a special-case one which covers only finitely many possibilities, and therefore it is possible for a proposition to be demonstratively true or false even if there is no universal rule-set.
(At this point I'm no longer talking about objectively moral rule-sets.)
(Er... by that I mean the focus of what I'm talking about has shifted away from morality into how logical propositions [can] be members of larger sets of rules mapping one class of items to another.)
[Irouléguy] The moral organising to remove unjust rulers happens now and then, for example, in Iraq. (I am not joking.) Imposing the rule of the moral, though, is a contradiction in terms. Rule can only be imposed on an unwilling populace by killing enough of them to intimidate the rest. What is moral about that? Re your second point, you see it or you don't. That is the key difference between empirical knowledge and moral knowledge: one is demonstrable and the other is not. On your third point, why didn't the just man thump the unjust when he tried to make off with his umbrella? Sometimes crime pays and sometimes it doesn't.
[Projoy] Indeed, mugging someone cannot be demonstrated to have those negative effects upon the soul that have nothing to do with the courts. The world-view I'm arguing is one that can only be held as a matter of faith. That, it occurs to me, is what religious faith really is. It is not belief in stories about empty tombs or dictating angels; it is the belief that not only are good and evil knowable, but the knowledge is closer than your own heartbeat.
But to return specifically to mugging, muggers are not notably well-off, materially successful people, are they, even if they never go to jail? There are no rich muggers.
But to return specifically to mugging, muggers are not notably well-off, materially successful people, are they, even if they never go to jail? There are no rich muggers.
Not philosophy
ISIHAC is back, and a good one too. Carry on.
Carrying on
The supposed negative consequences of sin are not some sort of consolation for the good -- "he stole my wallet, but he'll burn in hell for all eternity, so that's ok". Morality only has application to oneself. Other people will do whatever they do, whatever one thinks about what they do.
[Raak] *holds his position in the discussion while he looks online for the biography of a mugger who becomes very rich*
Per Capita
Any chance of a recap for someone who's not been able to follow this discussion closely whilst it's been ongoing? From what I can gather my thoughts are
- What's the definition of morality? I've seen a few arguments as to what it's not, but what is it?
- Without knowing what morality is, I can't decide whether there's any sense in talking about an absolute one or not.
- What I do find interesting, though, is why people seem to have converged on having similar feelings about certain things (such as killing other people to be 'bad' [which I am happy to try and define, should that be necessary]) despite having in other ways entirely different social backgrounds and upbringing. I appreciate that there are two possible explanations for this: one, a higher "moral" force. I'm more interested in the other explanation.
(within, I should say, the confines of this discussion. I'm sure this ground has been trodden more generally by many others before. But few of us, presumably, were there, so...)
[Raak] Well, you're a bit unfair to say that the points I made contradict each other - I don't think there are any universally accepted moral mores, but those which are predominantly accepted can be explained in an evolutionary way. But I don't see that this is backing for your position, or as you put it, "the consequences of right and wrong action are exactly your presumed evolutionary pressures". Seems to me more reasonable to say that "right" and "wrong" are simply words that human beings have learned to apply to actions with such consequences. But if that is so, why should we do "right" and avoid "wrong"? I think this is the problem with the position you're defending, that "right" actions help the doer and "wrong" ones harm him/her. That isn't morality, it's prudence. Prudence means doing what is sensible, essentially, from one's own point of view. Many accounts of "ethics" have really been about this, the most famous being Aristotle's, which is all about how to achieve "eudaimonia" or "happiness". But this isn't what most of us understand by "morality", for two reasons. The first is that prudence often conflicts with what most people would understand as morality. For example, a soldier who throws himself on top of a grenade to save his friends is clearly not acting prudently, but most people would want to say he acts morally. Second, prudence does not have the force of imperative that I was talking about earlier. A moral value is, in some sense, a command. "Murder is wrong" means "Don't murder people!" You can ignore it or disobey it if you want, but the command still demands a response (and this, I think, for rab's benefit, must be part of the definition of a moral statement). By contrast, "If you mug people it will redound against you" isn't a command, it's simply a statement. It's not telling you to do something. What I want from a decent account of moral statements is an explanation of that imperative, and it seems to me that appealing to consequences in this way - or indeed in any way, such as that of utilitarianism - does not do this.
To put that point a slightly different way, moral values can be transgressed, whereas ones of prudence cannot. "Do not murder people" can be obeyed or disobeyed - "Murder will ultimately harm yourself" cannot.
The wealth of muggers
[Projoy] Look at it this way: muggers are literally stealing people's pocket money. How is anyone going to get rich doing that?
[Raak] Whyever not? One mugger doesn't just mug one victim. They do it over and over again, as long as they don't get caught (that's probably the only practical limiting clause). There's also always the possibility they'll hit a minor jackpot, too, of someone who's carrying more than just "pocket money." I would imagine, for instance, that some of us going up to Rugby had a fair amount in cash. (As the guy collecting money for T-shirts, this is more than mere speculation!) Once they've got some money, there's no reason they couldn't invest their ill-gotten gains wisely, either, and make it grow a bit. True, I doubt most muggers are smart enough to know how to do that, but I don't think you can say it's inherently impossible to become rich through it.
[Raak] Oh, and I think you're also ignoring the way they tend to take other things the person has on them, such as credit cards, watches, jewellery, etc. The latter two probably aren't worth very much for most people (let's be honest, most people wear crap), but cards can lead to all kinds of nastily profitable shenanigans.
[Breadmaster] How about the sense of guilt? Doing something you know to be wrong makes you feel guilty. So, to put it another way, if something makes you feel guilty, it's something you feel to be immoral (this can be irrationally so, of course, insofar as any morality can be said to have a rational basis). Obviously, this isn't objective because different people feel guilt for different things.
[Darren] Ok, one can imagine how to make a lot of money at street crime, but I seriously doubt if anyone does. It's just not a real career option for anyone wanting to do more than just live hand to mouth.
[Bm] What is a "should"? What are commands? The moral person would no more thrust his hand into another's pocket than into a nest of vipers. Shoulds and commands are for those who lack insight and must be told what to do. I have not (yet) read Aristotle (is this the Nicomachean Ethics?), but morality as enlightened prudence sounds right to me.
[Bm] What is a "should"? What are commands? The moral person would no more thrust his hand into another's pocket than into a nest of vipers. Shoulds and commands are for those who lack insight and must be told what to do. I have not (yet) read Aristotle (is this the Nicomachean Ethics?), but morality as enlightened prudence sounds right to me.
1815 GREEN
You see - you can prove it, with one of these. You just need to know the wavelength of the light which will tell you where it is on teh spectrum which will (in most cases) be able to be proved to be a certain colour (except for those "No it's yellow" "no it's not it's orange" conversations.)
[st d] Whether you can prove it or not wasn't the point - it was whether you needed to prove it, or indeed whether you even needed to know a proof was possible.
of course - silly me.
[st d] Well done though.
You can't step into the same conversation twice...
Wow, this moves fast...
Raak] If by the case of Iraq you mean the resistance against the US/British occupation, then I'd agree that they are morally justified (without necessarily meaning that each and every one of the resitance's actions are morally justified). I suspect that's not what you mean though.
I think the core problem here is where you say "That is the key difference between empirical knowledge and moral knowledge: one is demonstrable and the other is not." If moral knowledge is not demonstrable in some way, then how do we learn it, other than by faith? And given that there are lots of possible belief systems, many of which disagree very strongly with each other, how do we distinguish between right and wrong belief systems?
Darren] I still don't see how you can know whether a proof is possible, without knowing how you are testing it.
Raak] If by the case of Iraq you mean the resistance against the US/British occupation, then I'd agree that they are morally justified (without necessarily meaning that each and every one of the resitance's actions are morally justified). I suspect that's not what you mean though.
I think the core problem here is where you say "That is the key difference between empirical knowledge and moral knowledge: one is demonstrable and the other is not." If moral knowledge is not demonstrable in some way, then how do we learn it, other than by faith? And given that there are lots of possible belief systems, many of which disagree very strongly with each other, how do we distinguish between right and wrong belief systems?
Darren] I still don't see how you can know whether a proof is possible, without knowing how you are testing it.
[Irouléguy] I think we've moved slightly from rulesets to proofs... the thing is, I don't think you need to prove a mapping is anything other then a mapping. It could be totally arbitrary, with no proof possible, but as long as you had a consistent mapping from one category to another, or, as I said above, a subset of one to a subset of the other, then that's sufficient. A ruleset doesn't need to be grounded in the real world to be a ruleset. It can be entirely abstract, but as long as it doesn't contradict itself then that's good enough as far as the logical proposition is concerned.
[Irouléguy] Indeed it wasn't! This may be getting into the stuff of flame wars, but I had in mind (as you no doubt guessed) the removal of Saddam as the moral act, and cannot see any of the resistance "actions" (i.e. suicide bombing, suicide bombing, and suicide bombing) as moral acts, especially given that the resistance is coming from the Sunni minority whose goal is Islamic dictatorship. Which of their actions do you think are morally justified?
How do we learn morality? Upbringing, practical experience, revelation, and reason applied to those. As someone once put it: "If you get it, it will be in spite of any method. You must have a method."
How do we learn morality? Upbringing, practical experience, revelation, and reason applied to those. As someone once put it: "If you get it, it will be in spite of any method. You must have a method."
self-defeating post :-)
[Raak] Hm, I don't think I'll bother continuing with this. Nothing you've suggested as an example needs more explanation than simply that humans enact moral (and legal) consequences upon one another according to the collective effect of shared or accumulated beliefs. This is the main reason muggers (nowadays) can have little success (even ignoring the fact that poverty is probably as much a cause of mugging as vice versa). Sure, all this might be the manifestation of some deeper mechanism, but it could just as easily be a bottom-up emergent phenomenon (rab can correct my terminology if I'm using this expression wrongly) that arises out of our brain chemistry and its interactions with the environment etc. etc. From what we know, this seems to me the most conservative and most available explanation. Why invoke absolute good, absolute evil? It still seems to me that you might as well invoke God. Certainly the notion of absolute good and evil, once you start trying to define them to the letter (in the case of say, the actions of Iraq's invaders and Iraq's resistance), admit of as many conceptual problems as the notion of God. Unless you can tell us more about the reasons for your willingness to entertain your leap of faith (and you've said you can't), I feel we're really just pushing words around.
More word-pushing.
[rab] Good idea re defining morality. We could take our pick from the 11 definitions, some claimed obsolete, offered by the OED. The ones it thinks are current are:
Rather a hazy selection, no?
- Moral virtue; behaviour conforming to moral law or accepted moral standards, esp. in relation to sexual matters; personal qualities judged to be good.
- Moral discourse or instruction; a moral lesson or exhortation. Also: the action or an act of moralizing.
- Conformity of an idea, practice, etc., to moral law; moral goodness or rightness.
- The quality or fact of being morally right or wrong; the goodness or badness of an action.
- The branch of knowledge concerned with right and wrong conduct, duty, responsibility, etc.; moral philosophy, ethics.
- A particular moral system or outlook; moral thought or conduct in relation to a particular form of activity.
Rather a hazy selection, no?
[Projoy] Quite. I had a think about definitions, came up with one and devised a framework for thinking about this whilst queuing in the bank this morning. Then the teller muttered something about ISAs and it all vanished. Oh dear. I also have more pressing things to worry about, in that I have in two weeks an interview for a job I really, really want and for which I expect the competition to be fierce. So I really need to pull out the stops, so if you don't hear from me it's cos I'm doing my homework.
Not posting on MC sites! Is this moral? :)
[rab] Morality: that which does not involve ISAs.
[Projoy] "Emergent phenomenon" isn't an alternative to other explanations -- it exists alongside them. For example, I am of the opinion that the mind is literally a physical process of the brain, which assembles itself by knowable (though currently almost entirely unknown) physical processes, so all the stuff we do is an emergent phenomenon of the molecules. That doesn't mean that that stuff -- thoughts, sensations, consciousness, etc. -- doesn't exist, although discoveries about the physical stuff can call into question our naive ideas about our experiences of our minds.
As a last remark, I don't want to give the impression of hinting at mysterious mystical revelations (and I cynically suspect that a lot of accounts of such are describing nothing more mysterious than a minor stroke). The experiences that I can find no adequate way of communicating are no more than a few personal development courses I've taken, following which some religious language became a lot more comprehensible, and reading in a couple of quasi-religious traditions of disputed provenance (the works of Gurdjieff and Idries Shah).
As a last remark, I don't want to give the impression of hinting at mysterious mystical revelations (and I cynically suspect that a lot of accounts of such are describing nothing more mysterious than a minor stroke). The experiences that I can find no adequate way of communicating are no more than a few personal development courses I've taken, following which some religious language became a lot more comprehensible, and reading in a couple of quasi-religious traditions of disputed provenance (the works of Gurdjieff and Idries Shah).
*sound of penny dropping*
Ahh. So you're saying that objective morality is a high-level description for a de facto emergent phenomenon? Well, we agree, then! It's only if you're insisting it's transcendent of the nuts and bolts of human behaviour and psychology that we have a fundamental disagreement.
I did say I'd shut up, didn't I? I will now shut up.
[Projoy] Actually, I'm agnostic about what it is. It might be that, and it might not be.
[Raak] You're right in a literal sense that "commands" are for those who need to be told what to do, but the point I was trying to make is that morality, if it is real, is normative. That is, it carries an implicit command in itself, irrespective of whether anyone is standing there articulating it. If it is true that there are people with moral insight who can "see" these truths, then they would also be able to "see" this implicit command and respond to it one way or the other (would you, incidentally, accept the existence of people with moral insight who nevertheless act wrongly?). Enlightened prudence (and yes, it's the "Nic Eth" I was thinking of, but any other kind too) doesn't cover it. When people say "Murder is wrong" they don't mean that it's in your interest (or even in the general interest) not to murder people - they mean that it's wrong, that you shouldn't do it, not even in an extraordinary case where it's beneficial. That's what Crime and Punishment is about. I haven't seen any argument explaining why, in the example given before, a soldier should sacrifice himself for his friends. I haven't even seen an argument explaining why I should not murder. I can imagine an argument setting out the undesirable effects of my murdering, but that's not the same thing. Jesus said "Seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these other things will be given to you" - but he meant that happiness comes as a result of doing what's right, that is, as a reward. He didn't mean that happines literally is doing right, and I wouldn't have thought many people would either. Purely from an empirical standpoint, how many people would agree that the happiest people in world are also the most moral?
[Darren] The guilt point is a good one, but you'd have to argue that the guilt of doing something you believe to be bad would always outweigh any happiness you derived from the benefits of the bad act, which I think would be unlikely - people generally rationalise such things eventually. Plus, of course, it's no use when trying to make an objective account of morality, as you point out, because different people feel guilty about different things.
A shame Projoy's bowing out as I think he's been entirely right throughout this. But like him I'm not sure that much headway is being made in any direction, so perhaps I'll do the same!
[Darren] The guilt point is a good one, but you'd have to argue that the guilt of doing something you believe to be bad would always outweigh any happiness you derived from the benefits of the bad act, which I think would be unlikely - people generally rationalise such things eventually. Plus, of course, it's no use when trying to make an objective account of morality, as you point out, because different people feel guilty about different things.
A shame Projoy's bowing out as I think he's been entirely right throughout this. But like him I'm not sure that much headway is being made in any direction, so perhaps I'll do the same!
[Bm] In which case, perhaps it's time to draw the whole question of "what is morality" to a close.
[Bm] Here's a thought: if immoral actions are those which we feel guilty about, then perhaps as guilt wears off the actions become less immoral! Has anyone ever claimed that a given action is (im)moral for perpetuity, or is it allowed for its status to change with time? Note that I'm not putting this idea of transient immorality forward as anything too serious, I'm just playing around with the concept to see what happens.
After all, most people would say (I think) that once you've done a particular immoral action once or twice, it becomes easier to do it later. I'm talking here about personal morality rather than any kind of universal morality, of course.
[Bm] "Command", "normative force", and "should" are just different labels for the same thing, whatever that thing is, if it exists. You can't get an ought from an is, so there are no arguments proving that one should do this or that, except from assumptions about what one should or should not do. There isn't an argument proving that you should get out of the way of a car either, only a description of the consequences, on the basis of which everyone is free to make their own response to the situation. "Enlightened prudence" (with an emphasis on the enlightened) doesn't bridge that gap, but neither does anything else. The only way to get there is to be there.
[Raak] Well, that is precisely one of the key reasons for supposing there is no such thing as objective moral truth!
Coming in during Dinner
Some people don't seem to have quite got the hang of this, you could say.
[Bm] I left moral truth off that list, because although one view is that it's just another name for the same thing, in the view I'm arguing, it isn't. It's...it's moral truth, that's what it is! And one still has a choice about whether to follow it or not.
talking of dinner
Last night I had dinner at a nice restaurant called Baltic, with , among others, Sarah Atkins, who is Head of Legal at London Underground.
[st dogmael] Did you ask her about the meaning of morality?
Yes. She said that it was buried deep in the foundations of the Jubilee Line Extension, somewhere near Canary Wharf, and that LU owned the IP rights to it.
gatsos
got hit with one on the M4 on Friday eveniing - doing 45ish in a temporary roadworks 40mph zone. BATFISH.
Greetings from deepest Vermont, where the speed limit is 25mph and the hire car does almoat 20 mph without complaining. And the weather's pretty bloody hot too.
[st d] Why do I suspect that when you add "-ish" to your speed, you actually mean "+30"? :-)
Well I've just got back from Inverness and a lovely time I had too, despite it being work. It appears the Highlands haven't yet discovered speed cameras if the taxi I got from the airport was anything to go by. Rab might be interested to know the flightpath in takes you directly over Inverness Sewerage Treatment Works.
[Botherer] Did you buy a cape?
speed estimates
CdM] Funnily enough, loud mouthed as I am, I do try to drive safely. The signs were all over saying 40MPH SPEED CAMERAS etc etc so I dropped to about 50, then saw the camera and braked and got flashed so I assume I was doing about 45. To be honest I would have braked a hell of a lot harder and probably been okay if I though it would have been safe but there were cars behind me. (a speeding tikcet, caught on camera, with brake lights showing and a Nissan crashed up my ass and HGVs jackknifing left right and centre would have been a bad look)
Cameras
I was almost caught by a static camera on my way into Liverpool on Sunday; I'd been travelling down the East Lancs road at 40 (the limit), and always forget that it changes to 30 on a ridiculous junction where it's really far more prudent to be looking at the five con/di-verging pieces of road (and persons alongside/between them) than at the signage and the speedometer. It remains a 30 zone, with no real need to be so. I only thought to ask my girlfriend on imminent approach to the camera what the limit was at that point, and I think I managed to take 10mph off before it could see my plate (there were no flashes that I could discern). Thankfully there was no-one close behind. The camera is placed on a flyover between the run-offs to and from one of the tunnels, so again my concentration really would be more use on other aspects of my driving than the speedometer and signage.
I was also pulled over for the first time on the M62 on Friday for (in my eyes, obviously) mostly unjustified reasons, at least partially caused by the officer doing the pulling. Thankfully he was only in the mood to administer a lecture, and then had to extricate me from the far more dangerous situation he'd left me in - he'd pulled me over behind a broken down van in the hard shoulder on a exit filter lane to Warrington. This involved both of us reversing down the hard shoulder(!), then him madly waving people out of the filter lane before pulling out into it at 3mph(!) so that I could get out and 'safely' build speed and pull back out of the filter-off lane. Which I'm fairly sure is an offense, due to the markings on the road, but that was what he'd told me to do(!).
I wrote an overly long-winded explanation. Click here to see it. I pretty much know what's going on around me, even when I haven't been able to see into a spot for a second or two. It's called induction and extrapolation. Well, I think it is, and on that point I think I'm in pretty much the ideal place for correction. Sorry, I needed to vent. My girlfriend got sick of it after about half an hour.
[PJ] Cape and Top Hat, brushed up my tails...
coptastic
nik] he sounds like a cunt of the very first order. You should write a letter of complaint.
If he'd actually booked me for something, then maybe. As it was, he just seemed to be something of a busy-body. I think I've pretty much worked it out of my system now. Only taken a week! :/
(Nik) Dear me, pulled over by a bumptious cop and given a lecture. Get over it FFS.
Er, did I not say I'd gotten over it? In the post before yours? Which was days before your post? In response to st d, posting several days after my original post? Can I direct statements including the word 'fuck' at you too? Can I? It's big and clever.
orders of c....
nik] sounds like he didnt give you a ticket because he knew he wouldnt get away with it. Still ranks pretty highly with me or he wouldn't have pulled you over at all.
(Nik) Try www.upmyownarse/pettymotoringwhinges.com
[Rosie] Careful now, it's been a pleasingly long time since we had a full-blown flamewar.
[Projoy] Don't worry, I've never been good at flamewars. They require far too much effort and a short-term memory capable of remembering that I'm participating in one.
driven up the wall
[pettymotoringwhinges] Yes please! I have loads . . .
flamewars
not sure i ever remember one on here, it does seem that you are spoiling needlessly for a reaction though, rosie.
(Projoy) No flamewar. I've made my point, which stands.
Point standing?
No, I'm sorry, Rosie. A point simply isn't stable; it would tip over.
[SM] It depends which way up you stand it.
(SM, Darren) Points mean prizes. (wearily) What do points mean?
PRIZES!!
hooray. I would like to win a very fast loud car and drive it about extremely fast with music blaring.
[st d] If the exhaust drops off your Peugeot and you point it downhill with Take That turned up to full bifters, that's what you'll have.
Peugeot Exhausts
[pen] Shirley you mean when the exhaust drops off your Peugeot?
[Botherer] Have you seen the amount of string holding St D's Peugeot's exhaust on?
string
that's not string, that's plastic bags wound round lots of times.
Phew wot a humid scorcher
I was up at 0530 this morning (another of my apparently weekly trips to Heathrow to collect/deliver people) and it was 17 degrees. I still think the best summer holiday I had was in the Arctic Circle. I'll bore you with temeperature updates and whinges throughout the day...
[pen] You are joking, right...?
[CDM] Nope. I have the build of an eskimau
Eskimo Nell
(pen) As long as you don't have their washing habits (nil). It's going to get a lot hotter over the weekend but you can avoid it by yet another trip to Heathrow or wherever and flying to "the uttermost part of the earth" (EasyJet, £5). See http://groups-beta.google.com/group/uk.sci.weather Mine is the first post in a thread marked "Cold Stuff". Maybe a bit technical/anorakky.
[pen] To be clear, my disbelief didn't concern the arctic circle vacation (I remember a wonderful trip to Lapland in midsummer) but the idea that 17 degrees is remotely warm, even at 05:30. Even for an eskimo.
[CdM] I sound like a complete marshmallow, but 17 degrees is at the point where I find it difficult to sleep. Flerdle will scoff...
[CdM] 17 degrees is quite warm enough for me, I can tell you. And you know where I'm going to be a month from today! Ha! Oh dear...
hahahahahahahahaha I win.
*scoffs*
[oblig weather report] "Normal" temperature range here now is 30 to 40°C, often about 5 degrees higher, with daytime humidity usually around 60%, higher at night. It was 35°C at midnight one day last week.
Yes, of course we use airconditioners, to bring the inside temperature down to somewhere in the mid to high 20s, and to dry out the air, and to avoid situations like the one on Wednesday night when (presumably) the freezer electrics overheating in the grocery store below our flat caused a fire that almost burnt down the building. I'm not surprised it happened, because they've never bothered to kept the shop cool enough. They're paying for it now.
During the heatwave in Bris at the start of last year, I found my "can't really sleep" point was almost exactly 23°C. Even one degree lower helps.
I don't know how I'm going to cope with Tasmania in early August.
(Re 23°C: things like humidity, fans, etc would vary it, but it was interesting observing my sleeping patterns and correlating it to temperature, at that time. Hey, I was stuck in the wrong country for two months, I needed something to do. I'm not about to redo the "experiment" if I can help it. Also, here we probably have the aircons set a bit lower than I said above. We don't have a thermometer or hygrometer, so I have to go by reported temperatures, but I have no reason to think they fib.)
I have a nice little chart which shows the apparent temperature, given the humidity and environmental temperature. Fascinating reading. For example, the other day when it was 40°C and 50% humidity, for most people that gives an apparent temperature of about 55°C, or 63° if you're in full sun (that's 145°F, if you needed the conversion).
Yum.
Sleep temperatures
(flerdle) No air-conditioning in this house and the temperature in my bedroom now (9.45 pm) is 25. We've had quite a warm day. The next few nights will be warmer still - probably 27 or so in this room but to me that's no problem. You just wake up a bit sweaty, that's all.
That's quite hot
I don't know how I'd cope with 40°C, but I dream of temperatures reaching 30something here! Far too seldom.
Chilling out
[flerdle] You had best put on some weight. Tassie in August is going to be right nippy I would think.
Our snowfields finally received a dump or two over the last few days - about 500mm according to reports - so it looks like the monied classes will have something to play in again this year. Locally the nights are cooling off (4.5°C minimum last night) but the days are fine and, unfortunately, dry. The dam levels for the Sydney area are down to about 38% of capacity - not great when you have 4 million plus people relying on the supply. Water restrictions have been tightened again. Some towns west of the divide are now having to cart water in from afar. I feel for the poor farmers. There are five year old children in some areas who have never seen rain.
Yeah, thought you would be interested. Sorry.
Our snowfields finally received a dump or two over the last few days - about 500mm according to reports - so it looks like the monied classes will have something to play in again this year. Locally the nights are cooling off (4.5°C minimum last night) but the days are fine and, unfortunately, dry. The dam levels for the Sydney area are down to about 38% of capacity - not great when you have 4 million plus people relying on the supply. Water restrictions have been tightened again. Some towns west of the divide are now having to cart water in from afar. I feel for the poor farmers. There are five year old children in some areas who have never seen rain.
Yeah, thought you would be interested. Sorry.
Scepticism
(Dujon) Has there really been a 5-yr absolute drought in parts of Oz that normally receive at least some rain from time to time? Possible, I suppose. The variability is greater than in the UK. It's been dry here too, at least in the south. At Maison Rosie there have been 7 dry months running and the total is under 60% of normal for that spell and there's now a hosepipe ban. Such hardship! But why should people think they can lay water out to dry? It's a finite resource.
Correction
Sorry, Rosie, I should have typed 'four-year-olds'. But, yes, it's true, and I'm not commenting on desert areas. Even where I live it's not particularly good. This calendar year (Jan & Feb tend to be our storm months) we have had 126/144.5/61/20.5/22 and, so far this month, 0.5 mm of precipitation. Some of this arrives in bucketsfull - we had 35mm and 30mm land on different days of Jan., 38.5mm twice in Feb. and another of 54mm (the 22nd; this followed one of the 38.5mm days), 14.5mm, 12mm and 19mm on separate March days. Since then we've had 13 days on which it rained, the maximum being 7mm on May 18th.
Put your scepticism back in the wallet and save it for a rainy day. ;-)
Put your scepticism back in the wallet and save it for a rainy day. ;-)
[Rosie] We really should find a thermometer and see what it is in here; in any case, it's not 18°C. I suspect I've become better able to tolerate heat, including while sleeping, but I still don't like it.
[Dujon] I have been :-(
[Dujon] I have been :-(
Dumper truck
Call me Mr Purile, but I'm always amused when people concerned with snowfall talk about "good dumps".
Drought and sweat
(Dujon) OK. It's just that I'm a natural sceptic, based on the "95% is bollocks" principle, but this forum has a greater percentage of truth-tellers than most, I'd say. Your total comes to 370 mm or so which is a lot less than the 600 mm that Sydney is supposed to have in that period. But are you in Sydeny itself? The figure for Richmond is only 420 mm for the same period. But I suppose any deficit is serious if it's part of a long-term dry spell. (flerdle) Yes, I can't believe 18°C in your tropical paradise. I'd find that decidedly chilly. (rab) Carry on! I am equally caused to giggle when people say they had to evacuate to avoid some imminent weather disaster. Scared the shit out of them, in other words.
I can't see anything amiss with using 'dump' in such a context. One meaning of the word is 'to put down heavily', which sums up heavy falls of rain/snow/whatever. Perhaps it would have been more correct to have said 'was dumped'? My apologies for mangling the language.
I'll have to check my records, Rosie. Unfortunately I took the trouble to transfer my data from notebooks to a computer spreadsheet program and promptly lost it all when a hard drive failed. Naturally gubbins here hadn't got around to backing up the files. There were about fifteen years of it and I've not had the inclination to do it all again. I'd have to find the notebooks, too (no doubt they'll be in a 'safe place'). I'm about the same distance from Sydney as is Richmond - 80 Km/50 miles - but with about 1000' extra elevation and 30 Km south-ish.
I'll have to check my records, Rosie. Unfortunately I took the trouble to transfer my data from notebooks to a computer spreadsheet program and promptly lost it all when a hard drive failed. Naturally gubbins here hadn't got around to backing up the files. There were about fifteen years of it and I've not had the inclination to do it all again. I'd have to find the notebooks, too (no doubt they'll be in a 'safe place'). I'm about the same distance from Sydney as is Richmond - 80 Km/50 miles - but with about 1000' extra elevation and 30 Km south-ish.
Further to that lot, Rosie, if you are interested then look here for information on current Sydney dam levels.
The bit found here includes a small reference to Goulburn (I could drive there in less than an hour and a half - I think). It's not quite up to date as the town has tapped the aquifiers and is using 'grey' and recycled water quite extensively. Strange though it may seem, much of the recycled stuff is used for keeping the sporting fields operational - combined with water carted in to the town (at some considerable expense to the clubs involved).
I won't bore (sorry) others on this site with useless chatter, I'll send an e-mail in the next few days. I noticed that London is expecting well over 30°C today (Sunday) and will ask you a couple of questions about it. That sort of reading is becoming seriously warm.
The bit found here includes a small reference to Goulburn (I could drive there in less than an hour and a half - I think). It's not quite up to date as the town has tapped the aquifiers and is using 'grey' and recycled water quite extensively. Strange though it may seem, much of the recycled stuff is used for keeping the sporting fields operational - combined with water carted in to the town (at some considerable expense to the clubs involved).
I won't bore (sorry) others on this site with useless chatter, I'll send an e-mail in the next few days. I noticed that London is expecting well over 30°C today (Sunday) and will ask you a couple of questions about it. That sort of reading is becoming seriously warm.
[Dujon] There's nothing grammatically wrong with using the word "dump" in that way - it's just highly amusing to those of us with the minds of small boys. Maybe Australians don't use the word in - ah - that sense? I'm most surprised!
generalised dumping
[Bm] I don't think we do, really.
[Breadmaster] Ah, yes! No, it's not common here and so went straight over my head. Rosie's evacuation quip should have alerted me. :-(
Heat
(Dujon) You're up! So am I. It was 30.6 here at Hughes Hall (southern edge of London, 600 ft) but the highest was 32.6 at Heathrow, a bit suspect due to all that concrete. Some tasty thunderstorms in the north but nothing here. Outside it's stuck at 21 and not a breath of wind, and 28 in this room. No bedclothes tonite, Josephine.
tasmania
why are you going to dear old tassie flerlde ? where you going ? have you been before ? tassie is one of my favorite places.
tasmaina
Just visiting a relative, in Hobart; not sure what we'll actually do. Should be a bit different. Second week of August. I've always wanted to visit, but it's been a bit far away ( = expensive to get to) for just a holiday.
AVMA
This game has died. Either that or Gusset Login has. If he's not there later today I'll start it myself and you'll all suffer. :-)
AVMA
You're safe. He's back.
[Rosie] But everyone else has gone. Hellloooo?
I'm lurking!
Lurking
I'd like to play more but as I can't access MC5 from work (apparently Websense thinks it's a game!) I feel reluctant to contribute.
Snow jobs
In exciting news just to hand: It's snowing. Well, not here, but where my wife works, which is a half hour drive to my west in a place called Katoomba. This, I suspect, will mean that PaulWay will be taking anti-chilblain precautions due to his location in cold Canberra. Sorry for the exuberance - most of it stems from the fact that I'm glad I'm not there.
(Dujon) Latest from Canberra is 6°C. BTW how high is Katoomba? I can see why it's a bit cold from the excellent animations from the Bureau of Metorology, which show a series of charts and loads of other data too. The Americans, via NOAA, also provide this kind of thing, and for the whole world. Not a dicky bird from our own UK Met Office, which has now completely abandoned all idea of public service. It sells forecasts to the BBC at a huge price and operates purely on a commercial basis. It is about to shut down all non-military outstations, including weather centres. The archives are not online and its website is minimalist, quite unlike other countries' services. Its attitude to the public is "up yours - you don't pay". It is despised by all its former employees, including this one, and by a good proportion of its present ones, except the accountants, probably. The poison was first injected by Thatcher and further heavy doses have been enthusiastically administered under that prick Blair. A heap of shite and a national disgrace.
[Rosie] Katoomba? About 1000 metres, give or take a few. It's not particularly elevated in world terms but is in those of Australia. I'm approximately 270 m.a.s.l. (which is close to, but not quite, 1000' a.s.l.). Please keep in mind that Mt. Kosciuszko, our highest point, is a mere 2228 metres above sea level and that you can pretty well drive there.
Last night was 'nippy' here - about 2.5°C - and as I write it seems about 11°C (it's approx 13:30 local). That reading comes from an electronic device and one in which I invest little credibility - though it's probably close. Whatever, it most surely is cold for this part of the world.
Last night was 'nippy' here - about 2.5°C - and as I write it seems about 11°C (it's approx 13:30 local). That reading comes from an electronic device and one in which I invest little credibility - though it's probably close. Whatever, it most surely is cold for this part of the world.
prescience
[Dujon] PaulWay is in the Caribbean at the moment, or possibly the west coast of the US.
*is not jealous of the antipodeans' sub-10-degree-centigrade temperatures at all, oh no...* 20 degrees C here (NW London) at 09.00 this morning, with a high of 32C or 90F expected today. Thank goodness I'm working outside for the next couple of days. I think...
(Dujon) Thanks. Along with penelope I could do with a bit of that. Just popped out to the screen - it's 29°, dewpoint 17°, i.e. sweaty. Almost no wind and the sky is full of heavy cirrus, which should stop it getting any hotter but might stop it cooling down much this evening, alas. Tomorrow's forecast is for all hell to be let loose (thunderstorms). It looks rather tasty, but we'll see. Only 6 mm rain here this month. Good, no gardening needed. Concerning my earlier rant my sources in the Met Office seem to have been reliable; see http://northtonight.grampiantv.co.uk/content/default.asp?page=s1_1_1&newsid=6898 You can get UK Met Office charts but only via the University of Karlsruhe.
[Pen] Bah! Luxury. It has topped 32oC every day (Except Weds)this week here in the Avon Valley. 19oC ish at night. I have been sleeping out on the lawn (in my sleeping bag) all week - listening to the hedgehogs fan themselves.
[flerdle] PaulWay must indeed have a sixth sense - good luck to him. Drifting around the east coast or west coast of the U.S. of A. sounds somewhat idyllic - unless there're cyclones or earthquakes.
[Rosie] That does sound a bit, well, short sighted? I can most certainly understand the concerns of local industries - fishing, oil rigs and the like - as I have always felt that local knowledge in these matters is a significant asset. Yesterday Katoomba had a temperature range of -1°C to 3°C. Given my wife's earlier account I thought I'd gird my loins and drive up to bring her home (she often has to walk to the station - a good half hour walk and all up hill). Not having been to her place of employ previously I got flummoxed in the back street up and down dale topography. Enough so as to miss her. I then hurtled up to the railway station and again missed. Most sad. There was, however, a light side to this epic voyage of discovery: Just about everyone I saw in the main street of the town wore a beany, many were wearing fleecy lined jackets (some with Alaskan style fur collars/hoods) whilst little old me was wearing my usual short-sleeved shirt with a cardigan for insurance and no hat. It was most assuredly cold and I would not have liked to wander around for an hour in that garb, but it did make me chuckle.
To make things worth, by the way, thinking that my wife's train was long gone by the time I rediscovered my home territory, I took a cursory glance at the railway station as I passed and, seeing no one of interest, carried on home. I was advised fifteen minutes later - in no uncertain terms - that I'd driven straight past the poor lass. Honestly, you can't win.
[Rosie] That does sound a bit, well, short sighted? I can most certainly understand the concerns of local industries - fishing, oil rigs and the like - as I have always felt that local knowledge in these matters is a significant asset. Yesterday Katoomba had a temperature range of -1°C to 3°C. Given my wife's earlier account I thought I'd gird my loins and drive up to bring her home (she often has to walk to the station - a good half hour walk and all up hill). Not having been to her place of employ previously I got flummoxed in the back street up and down dale topography. Enough so as to miss her. I then hurtled up to the railway station and again missed. Most sad. There was, however, a light side to this epic voyage of discovery: Just about everyone I saw in the main street of the town wore a beany, many were wearing fleecy lined jackets (some with Alaskan style fur collars/hoods) whilst little old me was wearing my usual short-sleeved shirt with a cardigan for insurance and no hat. It was most assuredly cold and I would not have liked to wander around for an hour in that garb, but it did make me chuckle.
To make things worth, by the way, thinking that my wife's train was long gone by the time I rediscovered my home territory, I took a cursory glance at the railway station as I passed and, seeing no one of interest, carried on home. I was advised fifteen minutes later - in no uncertain terms - that I'd driven straight past the poor lass. Honestly, you can't win.
lithping
s/worth/worse.
Blue Mountains
[Dujon] I have to say that I think you have the good fortune to live in one of the most beautiful parts of the world that I have ever seen.
[BtD] Sleeping outside? Is your house better or still falling down?
bool- house is fine, just very hot. please excuse the formatting, this is being posted from a mobile.
[CdM] I had gathered you'd been here, but hadn't realised that you had visited the 'mountains'. Though they are not very high there are some majestic parts of them, for sure. I'm pleased that you enjoyed the place.
[All] I hope that everyone else has had some relief from your oppressive weather - I know from experience that it can be quite ennervating, especially the 'getting to sleep' bit. Urrk. As a matter of interest, Bob the dog, if you were escaping the heat then why the sleeping bag? You have me intrigued.
[All] I hope that everyone else has had some relief from your oppressive weather - I know from experience that it can be quite ennervating, especially the 'getting to sleep' bit. Urrk. As a matter of interest, Bob the dog, if you were escaping the heat then why the sleeping bag? You have me intrigued.
Full moon
Dujon] Its a summerbag - simply for keeping the dew off - not that there has been much. There is also the discretion factor as I sleep in view of neighbours who are very good friends of ours - but who would probably be offended by the sight of my lack of attire. Come to think of it - a topic of conversation here in the UK recently has been the unusally large moon close to the horizon...
the great outdoors
[BtD] So do you hop out the back door in your sleeping bag, sack-race style, or do you tiptoe out once you think they're asleep?
Full Moon
(Btd) The moon, full or otherwise, always looks big when close to the horizon. It's an optical illusion, which nobody can really explain. If you actually measured it you would find it's smaller near the horizon than when high in the sky, other things being equal. This is a simple geometrical effect.
Moon river
[Rosie] No, I think, surely, you would find that the Moon is the same size in the sky no matter whether it's high or low. After all, it only takes a few hours for it to rise or set - it's not going to change in apparent size as it does so. The apparent growth of the Moon when near the horizon is of course some kind of psychological effect.
The reason the Moon has been looking even bigger than usual near the horizon this week is that full moon has coincided (almost) with midsummer. The Moon is full when it is opposite the sun in the sky. The sun is at its highest at midsummer. Therefore, if the Moon is full at midsummer, it will be as close to the horizon as it ever gets whilst being full. Therefore the "Mendex" or Moon Illusion is at its strongest.
The reason the Moon has been looking even bigger than usual near the horizon this week is that full moon has coincided (almost) with midsummer. The Moon is full when it is opposite the sun in the sky. The sun is at its highest at midsummer. Therefore, if the Moon is full at midsummer, it will be as close to the horizon as it ever gets whilst being full. Therefore the "Mendex" or Moon Illusion is at its strongest.
When I say that the Moon doesn't change in apparent size while rising or setting, I mean that the area of sky that it covers surely doesn't change. Obviously its apparent size does change because it looks bigger closer to the horizon, but it extends over the same arc of the sky (and indeed of the retina).
The moon should appear to be smaller when on the horizon than when at the zenith. Reason? It is further away when viewed at a tangent to the Earth's surface than from a perpendicular. This slight change is measurable though unlikely to be noticed by a casual observer.
Why we generally perceive a full moon to be larger on its rising as opposed to when it is high in the sky has often been said to be as a result of it being in proximity to our more normally observed everyday horizon (trees, buildings, horizon line) than when it's clear of such. In other words the sense of scale becomes more evident.
Why we generally perceive a full moon to be larger on its rising as opposed to when it is high in the sky has often been said to be as a result of it being in proximity to our more normally observed everyday horizon (trees, buildings, horizon line) than when it's clear of such. In other words the sense of scale becomes more evident.
Moon size
(Breadmaster) Dujon has explained what I meant by the "geometrical effect". The moon is measurably about 1.7% larger in apparent diameter when overhead than when on the horizon, other things being equal. We're simply closer to it when it's overhead. The same applies to the sun, strictly speaking, but as the distance of the sun is 23500 earth radii the effect is barely measurable even with instruments.
Peter Greenaway
reference is made to: http://petergreenaway.co.uk/games.htm
Many of the films of Peter Greenaway, at least the feature films that I have seen, have the structure of games. The best example is probably Drowning by Numbers. I have only recently discovered MC and I find the similarity to Hangman's Cricket to be striking. Does anyone know whether Greenaway has played MC?
[Rosie] Sorry to steal your thunder, old son, but Breadmaster's comment had been sitting for quite a few hours without response.
[Effable] Hello. I cannot answer your question but, on the law of averages, my guess would be 'yes'. The reason for that is that I believe I'm the only person on Earth who hasn't played a serious game of M.C..
[Effable] Hello. I cannot answer your question but, on the law of averages, my guess would be 'yes'. The reason for that is that I believe I'm the only person on Earth who hasn't played a serious game of M.C..
(Duj) No problem, mate. I've never played MC, either live or on these sites. It is essentially a performance in which the audience and panel enter into a mutual conspiracy about the complexity of the rules. Very few people I know have ever heard of it, which is rather disappointing. You could go up to anyone over the age of about 40 in this country and say "Bal-ham", and the almost instantaneous response would be "Gateway to the South", but say "Mornington Crescent" and you'd get mostly blank looks.
[Breadmaster] I just re-read your earlier post vis-à-vis (sorry!) full moon and the midsummer situation. This is not true. On average there are thirteen full moons per year. As viewed from Earth (the Sun always 'sees' a full moon) such an event can only be seen from one point on Earth and will happen at a specific time. To be technically correct a proper full moon will only occur during a total lunar eclipse, which is when the Sun, Earth and Moon are truly aligned - even then it can only be termed a 'full moon' by a person standing/sitting/lying on the direct line between the Sun, Earth and Moon at the time that this occurs.
Ooh Arr, hello Rosie. Simulpost.
I trust you agree with my little piece on celestial mechanics? Or have I mislead myself?
I trust you agree with my little piece on celestial mechanics? Or have I mislead myself?
conspiracy
[Rosie] Well, I'm very nearly fifty and I only learned of the existence of MC a few days ago. Now I'm hooked. It is as though it had been out there waiting for me to discover it, seems so right, so well suited to my motley talents. It doesn't bother me that it is so obscure. That is part of the appeal. And I am confident that many people have played MC without knowing what it is called. The pattern is a common one in many circles with intellectual pretensions.
Sprung
[Effable]
Your research, Sir or Madam, is exemplary. Welcome to the world of wannabees, couldavebeens and mightwellbees. I suspect that you will fit quite well into this society of misfits and miscreants. As a relative newcomer to the M.C. world myself, I'm quite sure that you will understand the deep and meaningful discussions, the amazing word play and generally unintelligible literary references which pepper this and other M.C. sites. Should I be correct then maybe you could help me out when I get stuck?
| "... The pattern is a common one in many circles with intellectual pretensions." |
Your research, Sir or Madam, is exemplary. Welcome to the world of wannabees, couldavebeens and mightwellbees. I suspect that you will fit quite well into this society of misfits and miscreants. As a relative newcomer to the M.C. world myself, I'm quite sure that you will understand the deep and meaningful discussions, the amazing word play and generally unintelligible literary references which pepper this and other M.C. sites. Should I be correct then maybe you could help me out when I get stuck?
[Dujon] Yes, of course technically you're correct about the full moon - I was using the term in the slightly vernacular sense, meaning the moon when it is as full as it is getting this month, as it were.
Living in Norfolk and often driving through the fens, I have frequently seen "full" moons on the horizion and they never look any bigger than when it is up in the sky. The moon does look huge however when it is a very fine crescent rising just before or setting just after the sun on a red sky.
mooning.
[Boolbar] Do you have only one good eye? The "moon illusion" is much less if you close one eye (or really only see well out of one), or stand on your head. If you don't want to stand on your head, you could bend over and look through your legs. Noone would think you're strange. Honest.
[flerdle] No-one is normal in Norfolk, so such behaviour would be ignored, or even actively encouraged. I have two good eyes last time I looked, although one looked bigger than the other . . . .
[Boolbar] Does the eye look bigger when it's closer to the horizon?
Sprang
[Dujon] I answer to neither Sir nor Madam but will admit to the y chromosome. It is possible that my participation will be of some small benefit to the community.
Full moons and chromosomes
(Duj) Strictly speaking you're correct but the term Full Moon is used, even technically, to mean that the ecliptic longitude of the moon is 180° more (or less) than the sun, whatever its latitude (-5° at the last full moon). (Effable) To save you putting your foot in it, so to speak, I too must admit to the Y-chromosome. There is at least one other person here who does the same. But beware; there are people here with no Y-chromosome whatever, some, moreover, with non-gender-specific monickers. Truly a minefield. :-)
Stale games
This site has had the same games on the front page for an offally long time. Time for a bit of turnover, perhaps?
stereotypes
[Rosie] I really don't mind. I'll watch my step and try to be PC.
[SM] You Know You're Getting Old... is unkillable
[SM] S'true. We've tried everything.
Which, I suppose, is ironic in a way. You know you're getting old when you stop caring about killing games, since you expect even the short ones to outlive you.
Death to...
I have tried to dispose of the Furcation game, but we have another non-standard winning move situation.
I think that one might be protected by administrative fiat. Still, I must admit that the prospect of my ever making the promised move is not getting greater as time goes on.
By Thunder!
Wow - last night in Herts was the most spectacular display of lightning... torrential rain, at least half an inch... whoooo-wee! Marvellous. Anyone else get anything ?
[pen] I got a nice bit of fish for tea.
[pen] I got a squash racket for my birthday.
castrated ram
[pen] I got leaks. The lightning was rather good though, very blue in colour.
Balls
Pen] Notmrsbobthedog claims to have seen ball lightning. She was out making sure the chickens were safe when there was a massive boom. Looking up she saw what she described as a lightbulb-shaped white glow which hung in the air for a few seconds after the strike.
Meanwhile, I was stuck in Brum, attempting to get the train back after a trip to York. I was sat in a metal hanger during the best of the storm. Sadly, the Selfridges building escaped divine judgement. All trains (including mine) were cancelled for two hours due to the weather. I got home very late.
Meanwhile, I was stuck in Brum, attempting to get the train back after a trip to York. I was sat in a metal hanger during the best of the storm. Sadly, the Selfridges building escaped divine judgement. All trains (including mine) were cancelled for two hours due to the weather. I got home very late.
Goodness Gracious etc...
[Btd] woweee.
[Chalks] Good idea. I'd fish the fish out of the freezer if I was going to be in tonight, but Flatmate's mum is taking us out for dinner - local chinese does THE BEST Szechuan Stir-fried green beans with salt and pepper.
[Tuj] Happy Birthday. Are you going to play grown-up squash? ;o) I once got through to the country trials in my younger, squash-playing days, mainly due to my killer serve which I could drop dead in the back corner. Unfortunately the rest of my game let me down. But I enjoyed the acoustics in the squash court - my best friend and I would spend an hour singing songs from The Jam, Duran Duran, The Teardrop Explodes and Gary Numan rather than playing squash.
[Boolbar] Leaks? Oh dear. The husband of one of my colleagues, in the midst of a huge house-improvement project, of which he is very capable, chose yesterday to take off the roofs off their porch and garage. Ooops.
[Chalks] Good idea. I'd fish the fish out of the freezer if I was going to be in tonight, but Flatmate's mum is taking us out for dinner - local chinese does THE BEST Szechuan Stir-fried green beans with salt and pepper.
[Tuj] Happy Birthday. Are you going to play grown-up squash? ;o) I once got through to the country trials in my younger, squash-playing days, mainly due to my killer serve which I could drop dead in the back corner. Unfortunately the rest of my game let me down. But I enjoyed the acoustics in the squash court - my best friend and I would spend an hour singing songs from The Jam, Duran Duran, The Teardrop Explodes and Gary Numan rather than playing squash.
[Boolbar] Leaks? Oh dear. The husband of one of my colleagues, in the midst of a huge house-improvement project, of which he is very capable, chose yesterday to take off the roofs off their porch and garage. Ooops.
For those of you who are unfamiliar with Birmingham, here is an image of the Selfridges building on the new Bull Ring.
The term Bimbo architecture has been used in association with this building.
Bimbo Architecture means buildings designed to attract customers but lacking in architectural integrity. RIBA president Maxwell Hutchinson said: “Bimbo architecture has a big smile and a pretty face but nothing between the ears. It is ‘hi-tech’ architecture without the tech and with an exclamation mark after the ‘Hi’ “.
The term Bimbo architecture has been used in association with this building.
Bimbo Architecture means buildings designed to attract customers but lacking in architectural integrity. RIBA president Maxwell Hutchinson said: “Bimbo architecture has a big smile and a pretty face but nothing between the ears. It is ‘hi-tech’ architecture without the tech and with an exclamation mark after the ‘Hi’ “.
Bimbo architecture
Wow, that's ugly. I don't think the lens helped here but still ... are people expected to shop here or is it an office building? It looks like something from a bad SciFi movie. "The Blob That Ate Bull Ring!"
[Effable] I've never been there but I understand it is for shopping and not purely offices. For what it's worth, I quite like it.
speaking from experience
Bull Selfridges Ring - it's much nicer in the flesh.
What a visual insult! Come friendly bombs and fall on Birmingham. It makes Croydon look like a pretty little market town, which it ain't.
At the risk of offending someone, that looks about as attractive as a beached whale.
[Duj and other detractors] Like most things - the edifice needs to be viewed in context.
[pen : hot beans] - how's your digestive system this morning?
[Chalky] But OTOH, I like it just on its own. [Btd] I can't resist asking (in the typical debate-starting manner) why this bit of architecture is less intelligent than, say, St Paul's Cathedral. The best reason I can think of is that while this building looks like a jokily scaled-up sequinned amoeba, St Paul's Cathedral looks like, well, a cathedral - which depending on your POV suggests that Christopher Wren was less decadent than Future Systems. Also, some architecture critics have pointed out that Selfridge's is basically a shell-concept, with little of architectural interest inside it, so not a coherent bit of architecture? Are these your reasons for disliking it?
Architectural integrity
What does Maxwell Hutchinson mean by "architectural integrity"? To me, that would mean "it satisfies the purpose it was built for, keeps out the rain, and doesn't fall down", but he appears to have some moral concept in mind. Googling for some reviews of the place, I didn't see much mention of whether it works in that sense. I did see a lot of photography that one might accuse of lacking in architectural integrity, i.e. shots taken from unusual angles that give no idea of what the thing actually looks like.
St Paul's
[Projoy] Ever seen St Paul's from above? The facade is not part of the structure, so it's a shell just like Selfridges. It gives a nice impression from the street, but it's not what it appears to be.
The Beauty of Hot Beans
[Chalks] Perfect, thank you :o)
Projoy and debate] I'm not that good at debating well because I feel very strongly about some issues and have a tendency to be both self-righteous and politically correct. However, I will present my own reasons for disliking the Selfridges building and why I think that Maxwell Hutchinson quote on Bimbo Architecture is a spot on reference to it. I would not like to think that I have offended anyone (as I have done when I fail to understand why people should play golf, wash their car on a Sunday, get married, get pierced, get tattoos, wear high heels or do any of the other multitude of bizarre things people do unquestioningly in order to comply with a convention.
I have no idea whether St Paul’s is good Architecture. It has stood the test of time in terms of its foundations and stability, it is a huge and well laid out edifice with some stunning work by a range of crafts people, it has a fascinating and well documented history.
My first reaction to the Selfridges building was ‘wow!’ It really is impressive. It is not out of place and it fits the nature of what it contains. My issues are more to do with the nature of consumption to which it is a cathedral. In one respect, I can see that there is some validity in the design. The shallowness of the outside is perfectly complimented by what it contains.
There is no reason for its appearance other than to attract consumers. It is simply a fashion statement. I have no idea how long it will last, but if its predecessor (which was greeted with similar acclaim when it was built) is any reference, it will be pulled down in 2030 amid claims that it is an eyesore. The building materials may be novel, but are not sustainable or easily repaired or updated. There are already worn and grubby areas. Despite this, I hope that it does survive, as an historical reference to the fashion of the age and so that no more hardcore, plastic reinforced concrete and fibreglass is dug into land-fills and left to contaminate the countryside.
I have no issue at all with the look of the building (apart from the fact it will get very mucky very quickly) and I would have welcomed a far more radical design (something by Anish Kapoor would have been perfect) had there been any thought to social and environmental sustainability when it was built.
I have no idea whether St Paul’s is good Architecture. It has stood the test of time in terms of its foundations and stability, it is a huge and well laid out edifice with some stunning work by a range of crafts people, it has a fascinating and well documented history.
My first reaction to the Selfridges building was ‘wow!’ It really is impressive. It is not out of place and it fits the nature of what it contains. My issues are more to do with the nature of consumption to which it is a cathedral. In one respect, I can see that there is some validity in the design. The shallowness of the outside is perfectly complimented by what it contains.
There is no reason for its appearance other than to attract consumers. It is simply a fashion statement. I have no idea how long it will last, but if its predecessor (which was greeted with similar acclaim when it was built) is any reference, it will be pulled down in 2030 amid claims that it is an eyesore. The building materials may be novel, but are not sustainable or easily repaired or updated. There are already worn and grubby areas. Despite this, I hope that it does survive, as an historical reference to the fashion of the age and so that no more hardcore, plastic reinforced concrete and fibreglass is dug into land-fills and left to contaminate the countryside.
I have no issue at all with the look of the building (apart from the fact it will get very mucky very quickly) and I would have welcomed a far more radical design (something by Anish Kapoor would have been perfect) had there been any thought to social and environmental sustainability when it was built.
But (and at the risk of retreading the discussion about value in music) why should such a building have any purpose for its appearance other than to attract customers? And if an architect sits down and asks himself, "How can I make this building attract customers?" then why is that any less of an intellectual challenge than any other building purpose? Similarly, in what sense does it look "shallow"? I'd have thought that if it makes sense to talk about shallowness in building design, you'd apply it to buildings that are unoriginal or that look like everything else. I'd say that this building had an original and unusual appearance. Whether it is an attractive appearance or not, or one that is compatible with the good functioning of what goes on inside, is another matter, but I don't really see what "shallowness" or "integrity" or "bimboness" have to do with it.
[Bm] Well, I don't think Btd is saying a building should have a better reason for its appearance, simply that if it doesn't, he doesn't think much of it. The intelligence of architecture, I would imagine, is in the way it interacts with the intelligence of the people that use it (rather than just whether it's a brain workout for the architect, otherwise a Temple Grandin abbatoir would be great architecture). Thus if all the Selfridge's building does is to drag you in and make you spend some money, then that's not a very intelligent way to be treated. If, on the other hand, it inspires you with thoughts biology or maths, that's rather more intelligent. If it manages to combine intellectual stimulation and its function, and make those two things interrelate, then I guess it's very clever indeed.
[Btd] All seems fair enough, although I must say, I've never worn high heels simply in order to comply with convention.
[Btd] All seems fair enough, although I must say, I've never worn high heels simply in order to comply with convention.
Projoy] Nearly there. I agree whole heartedly with your phrase "If it manages to combine intellectual stimulation and its function, and make those two things interrelate, then I guess it's very clever indeed."
Bread] I agree that an architect may if s/he wishes choose to design a building with the sole purpose of attracting customers. In this case they have and I am led to believe that they glory in that. My issue is that I (personally) find that approach unethical. Regarding shallowness - I did not say that it looked shallow. It doesn't, it looks interesting. The concept is shallow - one dimensional. If Joseph Beuys had piled lard on a chair to sell lard, it may have succeeded for a while but it would have been quickly forgotten. For me, the Selfridges building is just that, only more blingy. And with consumer culture responsible for so many of the environmental and social ills of our time, disposable 'environments' are a trend I would not wish to support.
Bread] I agree that an architect may if s/he wishes choose to design a building with the sole purpose of attracting customers. In this case they have and I am led to believe that they glory in that. My issue is that I (personally) find that approach unethical. Regarding shallowness - I did not say that it looked shallow. It doesn't, it looks interesting. The concept is shallow - one dimensional. If Joseph Beuys had piled lard on a chair to sell lard, it may have succeeded for a while but it would have been quickly forgotten. For me, the Selfridges building is just that, only more blingy. And with consumer culture responsible for so many of the environmental and social ills of our time, disposable 'environments' are a trend I would not wish to support.
[Chalky] Don't take me too seriously, my comment was made from that one image. I'm quite sure that if I happened to be in the area I'd duck in and have a look at the interior.
Still looks like a beached whale though. :-)
Still looks like a beached whale though. :-)
Poo
I learnt today that I didn't get the job I spent ages and ages preparing for. That'll teach me.
commiserations
Awww - I didn't like to ask because I thought it might tempt fate ...
[Rab] but you still have the preparation. Surely it'll be useful the next time something comes up? But sorry to hear it anyway...
Kinda - next job will be in a totally different department with wildly different interests (might even be maths, rather than physics) and so a lot of the application and job talk will have to change accordingly.
At least I'll be a bit more prepared for the ridiculous questions they throw at you in the interview, though.
[Rosie] The drought has not broken, but it's most welcome - see here. I have been loath to say anything less I jinx the weather, but it seems to be clearing and I guess it's now safe to do so. Many farmers are rejoicing but others are forced to wait until they can get their machinery into the paddocks. As far as my local dams go, we'll have to see what run off finally arrives.
[rab] My sympathies, good sir.
[rab] My sympathies, good sir.
Rain
(Duj) That's quite a splash, 150 mm in a week, and should be helpful. Back here the drought is slowly accumulating, the running 12-month total being just short of 600 mm instead of the normal 820 mm. And the two wettest months by far were last August and October. It's not desperate and no-one is going to die because of a hosepipe ban, even if a few plants do. But my raingauge needs some exercise, having got more in the way of seeds, dust and dead insects than water in it at the moment.
I broke my marching virginity today. And great fun it was too, waving placards. Having been exhorted to end capitalism now, all my future posts will be entirely in the lower case.
[Rab]Been There, Done That.
[rab] WHAT? I WON'T BE ABLE TO HEAR YOU.
[Rosie] You are in chalk country are you not? I would have thought that a 25+% drop in rainfall would have affected you more than most. We are still permitted to use hoses for gardening purposes twice per week (I think it's Wednesdays and Sundays - but I'd have to check), within limited hours, and it's breaking my green thumbed wife's heart.
[Rosie] You are in chalk country are you not? I would have thought that a 25+% drop in rainfall would have affected you more than most. We are still permitted to use hoses for gardening purposes twice per week (I think it's Wednesdays and Sundays - but I'd have to check), within limited hours, and it's breaking my green thumbed wife's heart.
It's ridiculously green out here (SW Qld). Green grass in winter, for pete's sake. The weather has really gone mad.
[rab] Marching virginity. Is that like galloping insomnia?
Anhydrous
(Duj) Yes, it's chalk, which is why there are no rivers on it, just hundreds of dry valleys. The water sinks in to become groundwater and is in effect a huge subterranean reservoir from which the water is drawn via boreholes. The problem is that it takes ages to top up again after a dry spell but short-term fluctuations tend to be ironed out. (Projoy) Certainly won't give you a running sore.
Taps hearing-aid battery and fiddles with the dial
I can't hear anyone :o(
[pen] I guess everyone is just too busy. Our phones at work have just failed. Horrah!
I'm on a conference.
pedant mode
[rab] How can you be on a conference? Shurely, you are at a conference? Discuss.
... and by the way
I am ON a chair as I type this, mainly because I'm still in my officey place working and not just lying on a bed with a laptop like sensible people do at this time of night.
[Tuj] Then allow me to make up for your modesty by shouting about my fortieth birthday which is on Sunday. British Grand Prix day, dammit. Garden party planned - Pimms with all the salad, chilled sparkling stuff, iced coffees, canapés etc... all welcome. Bring presents.
[Chalks] I was in bed with a laptop, as it happens, enjoying the BBC's 'Listen Again' features - a Hannay novel, 'Greenmantle' and then the programme about the life of Wellington. Brilliant stuff, and all usually bradcast while I'm at work. Only 25 years until I retire - I'm almost halfway there!
[Chalks] I was in bed with a laptop, as it happens, enjoying the BBC's 'Listen Again' features - a Hannay novel, 'Greenmantle' and then the programme about the life of Wellington. Brilliant stuff, and all usually bradcast while I'm at work. Only 25 years until I retire - I'm almost halfway there!
[pen] Spooky. I was thinking of you when I typed that :-)
Pedantically "on"
Anti-inflammatories, trombone, the right after the road junction, bitter. A useful little word.
Hey Pen! Congrats and all that! Oddly I will be in London on Sunday - at a fourtieth Birthday party.
deja vu
[penelope] Only a couple of years then before you can have your second 21st. ;-(
tempores mutantur
[Pen] If fifty is the new forty, then does that mean forty is the new fifty?
I'll kill a few braincells on Sunday in your honour - have a good one.
I'll kill a few braincells on Sunday in your honour - have a good one.
XL-ent
Yey! for being 40. All the best people are 40. ;o) [pen] Advanced Birthday Greetings from me. Have fun!
Wish I was there
[pen] Happy birthday for Sunday... would bring many exotic gifts, but am sadly geographically indisposed. Down a Pimms (or three) for me, ok?
[Everyone] thank you, thank you. Anyone wanting to drop by, from 1pm for food and drink, to junction 17 of the M25 (assuming the M25 is open) can email me for precise co-ordinates. My AOL.com email address is in my real name, Justine (2), and I'm New(1). Put (1) and (2) very close together in the correct order and add the suffix.
Addendum
Posted 12.45pm 06/07/05 It seems I may have some difficulty getting into London on Sunday. I hope everyone living and working there is safe. God, what an unbelievably callous act.
Addendum Addendum
07/07/05. Daft me.
rab] yes.
rab] yes.
while reflecting on today's news, I am also aware that for me, life is good. I am currently in possession of two cups of hot tea (they're small cups and the kettle is about 30 feet away down the office) and a refrigerated gingernut biscuit. I can heartily recommend the combination.
Pen] Gingernuts are good, but have you tried Traidcraft's 'Extra Spicy' Fairtrade Stem Ginger Cookies? Great big galumphing bits of ginger in a fab cookie. Dunking heaven.
stem ginger... mmmmm. By the way, for those in search of the perfect gingernut, it's not a McVities specimen, nor the Spar shop own label, but Tesco's own which packs the most powerful punch, sufficient to sustain a morning hard at work.
pen] Happy birthday! I remember 40...sort of. And surely the perfect ginger-nut is one that has chocolate on it?
happy birthday
to dear, dear Tuj -
Happy Bithday to Ya (Happy Biiiirthday) Happy Birthday To Ya.
btd] re your 07/07 post - it strikes me, in a kind of gallows humour kind of manner, that the boys with the bombs maybe realised the whole 9/11 11/9 confusion, and did this day for us (oh thank you for your beautiful bombs you stupid stupid men) today of all days so that there would be no confusion either side of the pond........
London is shaken but, from where I sit, fine. Drove through the centre at 11pm and what glorious calm. God help those who were told their sisters and brothers died today, but fuck them that did it and who cares why they did it and lets carry on regardless. 2012 here we come.
Amen.
I'm in an agreeable mood, so I'm agreeing with what all the previous 6 posts said. [BtD] Ta for CD. I was too gloomy to play it yesterday, but it brightened up an otherwise grey and rainy journey to work today. Mon lapin pelucheux est plein de la joie.
Woweeeeeeeeeeeeee!!
The most enormous bouquet of flowers (including ornamental cabbages - that's lunch sorted out then!) has just been delivered to my desk, from the Press Office of the certain french motor manufacturer what I work on behalf of [sic]. Coool... I never had flowers like this before. *grins*
special deliveries
[pen] aww - what a treat.
[I've just posted your card just in case we don't make it on Sunday]
[I've just posted your card just in case we don't make it on Sunday]
Birthdaze
[st d] Almost two weeks late, but thanks, there had to be someone to spoil my anonymity :P
[pen] All the best to you, of course!
[pen] All the best to you, of course!
Happy Birthday whatsits and hugs.
Not sure why but I was Mrs Inkspot bought me the CD, X&Y and it is not mine till September, I wonder what favours she is after!
Not sure why but I was Mrs Inkspot bought me the CD, X&Y and it is not mine till September, I wonder what favours she is after!
[pen] Happy Birthday!
[pen] happy birthdya, late tho it is.
hello everyone, exams are over so I have time for crescenting once more. woo, eh.
hello everyone, exams are over so I have time for crescenting once more. woo, eh.
Thank you for all your greetings. A more elegant birthday I couldn't have wished for. A big bunch of friends all made it down to London from various parts of the country to eat at the Oxo Tower last night, and a bunch more made it over to Rickmansworth for a perfect summer's day garden party this afternoon (The Day Itself). My dress is stained with cava and watermelon... how lovely. *beams*
I wouldn't worry about cava and watermelon. my mum didn't realise until I pointed it out to her hat while she haad been sat in the garden reading, she had sat on a raspberry. nice pink and grey skirt she has now... bet vanish'll do nothing too. hah.
Happy Bidet
Many Happy Returns, young pen.
Hip hap
Happy Birthday, pen.
Cake!
[pen] Yey!
little bit of cake?
[pen] What everyone else said.
*groooooaaaagh*
I was definitely pre-hangover when I made my previous post. I am now post-hangover. I don't want to tell you what went on in between, but suffice to say I just wasted one of my precious days of annual leave on something that could have been soooo easily avoided. And I *still* have washing up to do. Just one glass of Pimms won't hurt....
Welcome back nights!
Lots of celebratory back-slapping around at the minute. Oh, and very restrained of you to avoid MC over exam time...
well, it was waste loads of time on MC and fail my second year, or work and... hopefully not fail my second year. I've booked flights and everything now, so I'd better pass...
bday oxox
pen] sorry not to repond to your text the other `day (at least i dont think i did) my last few days have been a litle weird and i have now finished work and none the wiser about what to do next. I am glad it sounds like you had a nice time. bob..x
next
[st d] no worries... I'll catch up with you soon. What's the email address now?
[pen] Have finished motor sport project [at last!] but feel a tad guilty - I've been thinking about you a lot but don't seem to have got round to pressing any buttons or keys which would have let you know this. I now have a natural break until the next job - email on its way ..
[st dogstar] you're bound to feel rather adrift - even after 5 years of freelancing I still experience those feelings on a regular basis but have learned to go with the flow. Mind you, like Mr Micawber, I always believe that something will turn up.
[Chalks] Don't feel guilty - I seem to have lurched through this summer so far, I can't remember ever being so busy. Of the past two months, I have spent precisely two weekends at home, one of which was the birthday, so not exactly the 'laying-on-the-settee-watching-old-movies' time, but instead 240-mile-round-trips-on-Friday-night to collect parents when the trains weren't working and mad midnight dashes to the 24-hour supermarket to buy party provisions because that's the only time I had. Tonight I am driving another 240 miles from London-ish to North Yorkshire for another race meeting. Last night we, as a company, organised the third of four Mountain Bike race events. If anyone is interested in coming to the next one at Wycombe Summit (the woods alongside the dry ski-slope)in High Wycombe on the evening of Thursday, 28th July, then shout out! We have a small field, but it's increasing. And I only went because I thought I might see some handsome men getting changed in the car park... some hope. By the time I got home, my poor tomatoes were wilting! *blithers on in similar abstract vein for another five minutes*
pen
same as before but with a "d" instead of a "." in my name, and @gmail.com instead of @legal....:o) any confusion try st_dogmael@hotmail but i dont use it much
a ha'porth of pitch
Relating to the discussion a ways up there ^ from a while ago. Arts and Letters Daily just featured an article reviewing a new book that suggests we are all born with perfect pitch.
Perfect pitch
I've got it and always have had. Great Western engines whistle A flat (above the treble stave). My brother hasn't got it. He can play the piano and read and sing a choral score, so he, too is quite musical. We both had exposure to music, and a piano, from birth. From that, a reasonable deduction would be that I was born with it and he wasn't. The reviewer rightly says that perfect pitch (I prefer Absolute Pitch) is of no use except as a rather flashy talent (though I've never pulled a bird with it) but spoils his argument by saying it actually inhibits the understanding of language. I don't see this, and have never thought of speech as having a pitch, more of a continuous modulation from which much can be deduced. Absolute Pitch is only a form of memory and to be perfectly honest I don't quite understand why anyone who plays an instrument hasn't got it.
Er, why don't you understand, given that you've deduced it's something that some people have from birth?
mono-types
BTW, I haven't read the book, but I wonder if part of the argument that it inhibits language acquisition is to do with the subtleties of intonation - where the pitch is contextual rather than absolute. To interpret the same intonation in different people, you'd need to slide up and down the scale depending on who was talking. Which is interesting to consider when you link it with the fact that a common feature of autism (strongly associated with a weakness in interpreting the emotional states of other people) is a monotonous voice with very little subtlety of intonation. I'd better go read the book now, hadn't I?
Deaf as a post
I would have thought that most people have a good sense of frequencies - in that they can tell if a singer or musician is 'off'. The ability to recognise a note and give that note its correct nomenclature is a learned skill and therefore should not be part of a discussion about hearing. I wouldn't know a B flat from an A sharp, by name, unless the difference was demonstrated to me. If a musician (particularly those who play stringed instruments) cannot 'tune' their much beloved device then why (and how) are they playing?
[Rosie] On reviewing my post I think I sort of agree with you.
[Projoy] I'm not sure. Some oriental languages seem to rely on intonation changes for the meaning of various words and phrases - though English does the same to some extent - but I suspect that your comment regarding a 'sliding' scale must be true and would certainly not rely on perfect/absolute pitch, just the variation in such.
[Rosie] On reviewing my post I think I sort of agree with you.
[Projoy] I'm not sure. Some oriental languages seem to rely on intonation changes for the meaning of various words and phrases - though English does the same to some extent - but I suspect that your comment regarding a 'sliding' scale must be true and would certainly not rely on perfect/absolute pitch, just the variation in such.
[Duj] Pianists can't always tune their instrument, and they seem to get on OK. :)
(Projoy) What I can't understand is why everybody hasn't got it from birth. As I said, it's only a form of memory, like remembering colours. (Dujon) Most people can tell if someone is out of tune, but only relative to some other pitch which is assumed correct. Most people who play a guitar can tune it so that the instrument as a whole is in tune. I have a friend who plays a few tunes (only at home), and plays rather well, and his guitar is in tune with itself but at least three semitones flat. He has a good sense of tuning but none whatever of absolute pitch. I tuned it up for him but he said the strings were far too tight so back down it went.
[Rosie] Perhaps I can help. I have played guitar and sung in very amateur choirs. so I'm not totally lacking in the ability to hear pitch. But I hear lots of other things at the same time. For example, when tuning a guitar I'm often not sure if two strings are at the same pitch because of the different texture of the sound caused by the make-up and length of the string.
The same applies with other occasions. If a man and a woman are singing a duet I could tell you if there was a discord (to my ears), but would struggle to say if they were singing the same note (either an octave apart or exactly) because I cannot separate the pitch of a sound easily from the rest of its character.
Also I find it easy to sing a tune (relative pitch), but have no idea whether I'm singing the same notes as on a previous occasion. It seems to me that the ability to keep or hear a tune in your head does not imply that you remember the actual sound (which would imply that perfect pitch should be possible), but rather that you remember a pattern, which you can then apply to the sound when you remember or sing it.
The same applies with other occasions. If a man and a woman are singing a duet I could tell you if there was a discord (to my ears), but would struggle to say if they were singing the same note (either an octave apart or exactly) because I cannot separate the pitch of a sound easily from the rest of its character.
Also I find it easy to sing a tune (relative pitch), but have no idea whether I'm singing the same notes as on a previous occasion. It seems to me that the ability to keep or hear a tune in your head does not imply that you remember the actual sound (which would imply that perfect pitch should be possible), but rather that you remember a pattern, which you can then apply to the sound when you remember or sing it.
[INJ] Perfectly described. It is the same for me, except that I'm usually better at the octave thing. At a weekly music school, I always impressed the teacher by being extremely quick at identifying intervals, and thus have a good memory for melody in the way you describe. I now find I have to make more cognitive effort to recognise intervals, but then I have learned a lot more about the subtleties of language intonation since then (through drama but also through acquiring more social skills). Which is interesting.
To me, anyway.
Musical memory
(INJ) Remembering a whole tune would seem to be much more complex than remembering the pitch of a note yet we seems to do it rather well, just as we remember faces rather than any specific physical feature of them. But to me pitch of a tune is an integral part of it and if I hum a tune to myself in the wrong key (because it's easier, say) I still have to assign a key to it.
Perfect pitch...
...is lobbing an accordion into a skip without touching the sides.
On a more serious note, I've had perfect pitch since I could ever remember, both in the absolute sense and the relative sense. So I have very little trouble transposing at sight, as well as playing at sight, or keeping in tune when singing a song in different keys. I've never known how I do it - I also have a pretty fast learning memory for music too. But, oddly enough, I'm lousy at matching names to faces.
(JLE) Yeah, but you're a f****** genius. Would you lob a soprano sax in the skip while you're about it, just for me? Then the five tons of rubble just to make sure.
[JLE] Hi - I'm Kathy. I was the other [apart from pen] female person at Rugby Pilg in May. I thought your piano playing was particularly fine.
I don't have [or have never tested the possibility of having] perfect pitch. I do, however, have an unerring sense of direction, and can point to North however many times I've been spun round. Is this normal?
controlled experiments
[Chalky] Wow. I, for one, have never heard of that. Out of curiosity, how accurately can you do this (exactly north, or just approximately?), and how rigorously has it been tested (not quite sure what the most rigorous test I can imagine would be -- maybe someone moving you while you were sleeping into a dark room where you have never been before?)? And can you point to any direction just as easily, or, if asked to point southwest, would you still start from north and work from there?
Septentrionation
[Chalky] Can I carry you round with me next time I go orienteering?
I have a pretty good sense of direction and I hang around with a lot of very good navigators, but that's a first for me. I think we need a scan for an overdeveloped pineal gland.
I have a pretty good sense of direction and I hang around with a lot of very good navigators, but that's a first for me. I think we need a scan for an overdeveloped pineal gland.
Prosthetic pineal gland
I can always tell where I am and where North is -- I carry a street map and a compass whenever I travel.
[CdM] Just approximate north - nothing too exact! The other directions I would work out in a more conscious way.
[Dan] Interesting. Makes me wonder how bewildering I would find being placed on the north pole with nowhere to point.
[INJ] I don't think you'd want to be burdened with the load :-)
I'm quite good at finding my way home, no matter what city or how drunk I am. can I claim that as a skill?
[nights] That seems to be a skill that humans have evolved as a species. This is evidence - I am sure - that beer has been around at least as long as humans have.
[nights] Were you born with it?
(nights, rab) There must be serious limits to the ability or we wouldn't have "Show me the way to home".
I'm almost tone deaf, can't remember names, and have to calculate north by looking at the sun and trying to remember what time of day it is. Should I get a new brain? Incidentally, there are languages that accent with pitch rather than stress (such as Japanese and Attic Greek). I wonder what it is like to have perfect pitch and speak those.
where?
[Chalky] How do you go in the Southern Hemisphere, in a place you haven't seen a map of?
I have an excellent sense of direction and hardly ever get lost, but I think that's got more to do with observation of my surroundings and the use of maps, mental and otherwise. I feel slightly unnerved without a map, if I am going to spend a while in a place. I carry a compass sometimes. The problem is that, since I obviously use the sun's position for orientation, this sense is most finely tuned on the southern hemisphere environment, so my location of north flips 180degrees when in the northern hemisphere. This is a *most* unnerving experience. I was convinced that London was t' other way 'round, and had to work very hard to swap to the "correct" directions.
I can do it standing on my head.
[Flerdle] I can relate to that. I find the same problem when I go South of the equator and the sun goes the wrong way.
In the Attic
(Breadmaster) It doesn't make any difference, having perfect pitch. It's the change of pitch that is important. The pitch of speech varies so rapidly, even during one syllable, that it is impossible to assign a pitch to it, other than high or low, say. BTW your method of finding north is quite normal and one I use myself, if that's any comfort.
*goes on holiday*
[flerdle] I wouldn't know - having never ventured into that territory.
upsy-daisy
[INJ] It does, it does!! And the moon's upside down.
I don't think I consciously look for or use the sun's position or movement, it just adds to a general sense of where's where.
[Chalky] You might be in for a surprise then :-)
drinkyfeet
there must be limits, but so far I haven't found one. I even, in my fairly drunken state, remembered the Russian for 'do you mind if I use your toilet', while nipping into a bar in St Petersburg on my merry way back to Ligovskii Prospekt. I may have been born with it, but I don't think I was ever drunk as a child.
*goes to work*
*goes to work*
[flerdle] It would be interesting for sure. I've been fairly close to the equator but never below it [see? I still see north as 'up' and south as 'down'] Can relate to everything you said earlier about observation, map usage, etc. Even as a child I had a compulsion to know where I was placed and was first to a floor plan, street plan or map - it made my day when faced with one of those pictorial street guide display thingies with a big fat arrow saying YOU ARE HERE!
Austroborealism
(Chalky) North is still at the top even in the Southern Hemisphere. Weather charts are a bit difficult to get the hang of because everything goes round backwards but North is still at the top. Everything would still go round backwards even if North were at the bottom. It's fundamental. I'm with you on maps. My father had millions of OS Maps, some dating from the 1930's. I've got them all now and a whole load more. I've made a contour map, six feet by two, of the North Downs from Farnham to the Medway. Wonderful what you can do with tracing paper and a scanner and printer. Needless to say, Maison Rosie (TQ 3516 5955) is bang in the middle.
Moon
[flerdle] Maybe that's why you think the moon is white? :-)
it is!
[Néa] *thwap*
Maps
[Chalky & Rosie] Sign me up to the Cartographile Club !! I love 'em - old ones, new ones, from maps of countries, oceans, volcanic distribution etc. down to the most detailed O.S. map - I can pore over them for ages. I trust you've discover www.old-maps.co.uk which is a superb resource for late C19 O.S. maps of Britain.
Ooops
Sorry, forgot the http ... that should be www.old-maps.co.uk
Old maps
(Blob) Tried that. Excellent. Thanks.
MCiOS unreachable
Hello. Sorry about the downtime. Looks like an upstream provider is having problems.
Now a bunch of semitrained chimpanzees are jumping up and down on the routing tables. Connectivity is coming and going and the routes are changing even as we speak. Whee.
I hope you're filming that!
(Dan) Only properly trained chimpanzees should be employed. Otherwise you might as well use IT consultants.
Ook ook
Should be sorted now.
chimps running about aimlessly running servers, routers and whatnot? users with more knowledge than the IT staff? sounds like a job for Bath University Computer Services!
[nights] judging by that lack of response, your marketing for BU CS didn't go down too well ;o)
*thinks* . o O {I really fancy a biscuit}
[projoy] oooh, don't. I'm staying late at work to make inroads into a pile of work neglected by a colleague and to show him up as a workshy fop. And I'm STARVING.
has just munched a couple of ginger biscuits
[Blob] Thanks :-)
MCIOS?
Has MCIOS gone down again? Anyone able to access it?
I expect the monkeys are on the case again.
Oh, I know this sounds like the beginning of a limerick, but I hate it when subordinates sulk. What can be more pathetic than a man who can't accept the fact that his manager is a woman who has vastly more experience than himself? I'm not pointing out improvements he could make for FUN... I'm f*cking helping him... sheesh. *withers and dissolves into a cup of Earl Grey 'Management' Tea*
*some minutes later*
The sulk has come to a head. He's cross with me for proofreading his work and adding rather a lot of pink pen to it. And he still has a problem with women managers. :-/
[pennylope] a pink pen? Now that's just adding insult to injury :-)
Talking of work - my current project requires that I'm in't office from 4 - 8 pm for 3 weeks supervising a small team of temps who are carrying out a telephone survey. They are all students, immensely grateful for the work and their sheer enthusiasm has transformed a very mundane task, for me anyway, into enormous fun.
Talking of work - my current project requires that I'm in't office from 4 - 8 pm for 3 weeks supervising a small team of temps who are carrying out a telephone survey. They are all students, immensely grateful for the work and their sheer enthusiasm has transformed a very mundane task, for me anyway, into enormous fun.
[Chalks] Pink rather than red - now that's just too teacherish, although after thinking about it this evening, I might start doing it in pencil. And lucky you for having a nice bunch to work with. I bet they're having fun working with you too. :o)
[Chalky] see, this is just the sort of job I WANTED. I like being on the phone. but I don't get it, do I? I get forced back into catering, a sector I gratefully left two years ago promising never to work in again. grumble grumble grumble, sorry. on the other, more important hand, I need the cash, as I leave for canada in 29 days.
[penelope] BUCS are evil, pure evil. they're arrogant, poorly organised and unreliable. the campus network went out on a sunday, in the couple of weeks running up to most people's coursework deadlines. it took them FOUR HOURS to even get to the sodding campus. naturally, this deep sense of satisfaction was expressed in the annual user survey (encouraged quite a lot by me), so the feedback of the users of the computing services of the university of bath will be, uh, buried in someone's drawer and forgotten about. never mind, at least I have my health, and my own computer.
[penelope] BUCS are evil, pure evil. they're arrogant, poorly organised and unreliable. the campus network went out on a sunday, in the couple of weeks running up to most people's coursework deadlines. it took them FOUR HOURS to even get to the sodding campus. naturally, this deep sense of satisfaction was expressed in the annual user survey (encouraged quite a lot by me), so the feedback of the users of the computing services of the university of bath will be, uh, buried in someone's drawer and forgotten about. never mind, at least I have my health, and my own computer.
[nights] Must be frustrating... but it wasn't ever anything I used to deal with. When I graduated (1987) everything - coursework, laboratory practicals with graphs and diagrams and EVERYTHING was hand-written and hand-drawn. My final year project had to be typed - my mum did it for me. There was a computing course as an element, but I never went to any of the tutorials.
[pen] see, I know that writing my essays longhand would be time consuming and thoroughly annoying when I wanted to insert a quote I'd found at the last minute - but I think I'd focus on it more. this has been the case when doing translations into russian (which I can't be bothered to type out because it takes ages) and scored better. so this is something to think about.
BUCS are still evil though. although they were thrilled when I dragged my old iMac down there to see why it wasn't working with the network. I actually rather miss that one.
BUCS are still evil though. although they were thrilled when I dragged my old iMac down there to see why it wasn't working with the network. I actually rather miss that one.
*has fond memories of Microsoft Word completely reformatting, and removing the figures from, our 1st year project one hour before deadline*
*sigh*
It looks like I've now been victim to twatspam, of the 5000-links-to-a-website-in-a-post variety. As it happens I'm currently tweaking the back end of this website, so I'll be making it difficult to post more than a couple of links per move I'm afraid.
well I think we can all appreciate it. and it gives us the opportunity to use the construction "a link not totally unlike..." which is always a positive thing.
And it's happened again. These people are complete arseholes. More anon.
Ignore, mispost, sorry
Right I've disallowed <a> links for the moment. This is only a temporary solution until I come up with something more sophisticated.
Spammage
[Rab] Writing you offline.
Oh, what the hades...
Actually I'll just say it here, since the bumfuques who do this stuff don't read anyway. What I've been thinking of doing is treating any post with an A tag as bad HTML unless it contains a special attribute. For those following this at home, an attribute is like href="url". We could form them in the same way except require an additional or substitute attribute. For example, instead of href we could require the surname of the nice lady who writes letters to Humph. Another thing that occurs to me is to replace the A entirely, with some other nonstandard tag which will get converted to A on output. Thoughts?
On reviewing my own code, and thinking about it from a user-friendliness standpoint, I'm inclined to go for the latter. It's trivial to implement and easy to explain in the error message, in such a way that users will get it and passing spammers will not.
[Dan] Agreed! Would be nice to still be able to post links with a special tag. [rab] Can you get round your a link prohibition in the same way as at Dunx' place?
I have plans which hopefully should impact genuine Crescenters minimally. My banning of A tags for now is purely a short-term inconvenience.
(sorry if that sounds a little curt - Dan's solution will probably be the workaround that will be offered if the server thinks you're being overly naughty)
On the topic of campus computer people: I have wasted an entire morning trying to get my laptop configured so it can use the university network and internet provider. The goons at the Computer Centre took about an hour and a half trying to do it before declaring that they didn't have the right driver for my make of computer. Assimilating, dubiously, the revelation that this varies according to make rather than OS, I then had to go to the other end of the campus (requiring not one but two bus trips) where, surreally, there is what seems to be a support place for Toshiba. Why this isn't next to the Computer Centre, God only knows. They didn't know what to do, because a look on the Toshiba website revealed that there are lots of possible drivers to download and I hadn't been told what kind to look for. So I had to go all the way back to the Computer Centre (through a monsoon), where a new set of goons had replaced the original ones, but were no more competent. They couldn't find the relevant part of the website and in any case were now talking darkly of the need to open up the laptop and fiddle about with its innards. They wrote down what they needed and told me to take that back to the Toshiba people. Of course, they are all closed now and I have to wait until Monday. All this just to log onto the wretched network! Oh, and the whole thing was conducted in Singlish, which is basically incomprehensible at the best of times but far worse when it's people going on about drivers and networks and suchlike. Really, this place is appallingly disorganised. Thank God I can use the university's own computers for internet purposes or I'd really be in trouble.
Links
As I did on Dunx's page, you can always use Javascript in a tag to get around a restriction on A tags. For example: I'm a link to Orange MC without any A tags. (This works on Firefox at least.)
...and IE, as I just checked.
For those who are curious and don't want to View Source, here's how I did it:-
<u><font color=blue onClick="self.location='http://www.dunx.org/cgi-bin/orange-mc'">I'm a link to Orange MC without any A tags</font></u>
I have plans which hopefully should impact genuine Crescenters minimally. My banning of A tags for now is purely a short-term inconvenience.
Link without A tabs
Not to be picky, but shouldn't one be able to click on a link? It may just be AOL being incompetent but I can't click on Darren's one above. However, as this topic of conversation goes way over my head (I can just about cope with bold tags), I should probably just let you IT types get on with it.
Linkages
It works for me on Firefox. For Knobbly's info., in my case the cursor does not change (i.e. there is no indication that the text is a link) but is 'clickable'.
Links
I like Dan's simple work-round. The problem with Darren's (otherwise excellent) solution is there are some of us who operate in Firefox with javascript disabled. I have found this is a very effective tool in combatting trojans et al and am loath to change. Just my opinion, obviously.
I have plans which hopefully should impact genuine Crescenters minimally. My banning of A tags for now is purely a short-term inconvenience.
Impactfulness
Well, I was all set to say something about the use of impact as a verb, but apparently it, like Wagner's music, is not as bad as it sounds:
http://www.bartleby.com/64/C003/0165.html
http://www.bartleby.com/64/C003/0165.html
rab's statements on the A tag issue are starting to sound a little... disturbing.
Sorry - that's what happens when I visit the site when drunk. I really hope to have this sorted out properly sooner rather than later. More anon.
They actually reminded me of government statements. As they pointed out on Yes Prime Minister, you should just keep making the same statement over and over again, no matter what people ask you.
Satire
Paxman: Are you happy for users of the site to find ways around your ban on A tags?
Prime Minister: I have plans which hopefully should impact genuine Crescenters minimally. My banning of A tags for now is purely a short-term inconvenience.
Paxman: But in the meantime, you accept there are workarounds?
Prime Minister: I have plans which hopefully should impact genuine Crescenters minimally. My banning of A tags for now is purely a short-term inconvenience.
Paxman: Prime Minister, are there or are there not loopholes in the ban on A tags?
Prime Minister: I have plans which hopefully should impact genuine Crescenters minimally. My banning of A tags for now is purely a short-term inconvenience.
Paxman: Look, yes or no. Do you accept there are loopholes?
Prime Minister: I have plans which hopefully should impact genuine Crescenters minimally. My banning of A tags for now is purely a short-term inconvenience.
Paxman: So you say, but what Crescenters are asking is, do you realise there are ways around the ban?
Prime Minister: With respect Jeremy, that's not the real question. I assure all genuine Crescenters that I have plans which hopefully should impact genuine Crescenters minimally. My banning of A tags for now is purely a short-term inconvenience.
Paxman: But Prime Minister...
Prime Minister: I have plans which hopefully should impact genuine Crescenters minimally. My banning of A tags for now is purely a short-term inconvenience.
Prime Minister: I have plans which hopefully should impact genuine Crescenters minimally. My banning of A tags for now is purely a short-term inconvenience.
Paxman: But in the meantime, you accept there are workarounds?
Prime Minister: I have plans which hopefully should impact genuine Crescenters minimally. My banning of A tags for now is purely a short-term inconvenience.
Paxman: Prime Minister, are there or are there not loopholes in the ban on A tags?
Prime Minister: I have plans which hopefully should impact genuine Crescenters minimally. My banning of A tags for now is purely a short-term inconvenience.
Paxman: Look, yes or no. Do you accept there are loopholes?
Prime Minister: I have plans which hopefully should impact genuine Crescenters minimally. My banning of A tags for now is purely a short-term inconvenience.
Paxman: So you say, but what Crescenters are asking is, do you realise there are ways around the ban?
Prime Minister: With respect Jeremy, that's not the real question. I assure all genuine Crescenters that I have plans which hopefully should impact genuine Crescenters minimally. My banning of A tags for now is purely a short-term inconvenience.
Paxman: But Prime Minister...
Prime Minister: I have plans which hopefully should impact genuine Crescenters minimally. My banning of A tags for now is purely a short-term inconvenience.
etc. etc. etc.
(no offence meant to rab)
links
Good lord, you're right. I should have tried to click on it despite it not looking like I could.
[K] Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Although I recommend not clicking on the '1,000's of free smileys' pop-up.
has the INTaRWeB always been so full of crap, or has it got steadily worse since I got online in the summer of 1997?
[nights] Like everything, it's been mostly full of crap since it started, but it's only been in the last few years that the crap has expressed a desire to leap down everyone's throat.
The big cautionary tale of the net is Usenet, which although some people manage to keep active newsgroups going (using I don't know what antispam measures), is now almost entirely spam. I've been working recently on a little predator/prey population interactives, and I wonder if the cycles of spam-genuine content follow a similar statistical pattern. i.e. the population of predators increases, diminishing the population of prey, which in turn leads to extinction for the predators...
[Projoy] I think part of the problem with Usenet is that most people aren't even aware it exists any more, and those who are aware of it, by and large, consider it too full of spam to be useful. For this reason, I don't think you'd find a cyclical pattern, but rather a gradual tail-off with time.
[Projoy] I see almost no spam at all on Usenet. I read mainly rec.arts.sf.* and a few others. Where do you get the idea that it's mostly spam? (Er, I probably won't see a reply to this for a couple of weeks -- off to Glasgow at the crack of dawn tomorrow.)
[Raak] Well, as you won't see this I can make any claim I like. :) I don't know, but I assume the admin of some newsgroups have anti-spam measures in place, or there are anti-spam measures at the ISP news server level. No idea, really. I also have frequented a rec.arts newsgroup or two (and I believe the drwho one still goes on strong). I used to read a group or two on the alt. hierarchy, but would not attempt it now. They were swamped in spam years ago.
all the usenet groups I ever use (a few music ones and tomb raider, all under alt.) are filled with crap. I looked in on the MC one this morning and that was full of rubbish. a shame really. I'll try other groups though.
Usenet groups
I regularly look at, and contribute to uk.sci.weather. There are rather a lot of gadget nerds and people of the spotty-herbert tendency who seem to use weather as an excuse for computer exercises but there are also professional meteorologists who contribute, necessarily under a pseudonym. There is very little outright junk.
The only one I ever contributed to with any intensity was rec.puzzles.crosswords, in which I even created a long-running competition which still runs.
so, who's going on holiday?
Not I. I wish to remain here and enjoy the delightful British Summer in all its scorching glory.
[nights] Holiday? I seem to remember those. Many years ago . . . .
*comes back from holiday*
welcome back Tuj! have a nice time?
Hello nights et al!
Yep, 2 weeks in and around Boston with my family, pretty good and apparently the weather kicked 7 bells out of the weather back in Britain, so that's OK. I still say their money smells funny though.
[Tuj] I'd forgotten about that. Mm. Dollars.
I wonder if canadian ones also smell. I've heard you can pop the middle of a $2 coin out.
Yes, but I've heard that about the £2 coin too and never managed it...
tv
Great night on tv last night and all 3 hours of it on Channel 4 starting at eight. A combination of Big Brother (Craig evicted ......yes!!!! result) and two opening episdodes of new drama Lost. An ensemble cast is allowing multi storylines and twists it is gripping already with unanswered questions, polar bear? 16 year old mesage still being transmitted? how is the labrador unscathed?
is watching you
[Inks] Glad you mentioned Big Brother. I wonder how many people in the UK Morniverse have seen some or even all of it? I think it's been very watchable this year for two reasons: Big Brother himself has been amusing, unpredictable, capricious and in charge; there has been considerable action, some of it admittedly grotesque, during the 'live' streaming.
As for Lost - unless they repeat the episodes at weird times [which is usually when I watch TV], I doubt if I'll get the opportunity to see it.
As for Lost - unless they repeat the episodes at weird times [which is usually when I watch TV], I doubt if I'll get the opportunity to see it.
isn't watching back
As a militant anti-Big Brother person, I think the current series has been one of the best so far because it has been low key enough to not manage to puncture my consciousness. I couldn't name a single contestant, so I'm happy.
I think last year was better from that point of view. Can't remember anything about that. This year I recall seeing some press stories about Derek Laud, so it managed to sneak its way into my consciousness.
I watched it until I came home from university, and all of a sudden don't have time for it. never mind.
and I'm stuck with dialup at the moment as our broadband is up the chute again. so I won't be around very much at all, no.
and I'm stuck with dialup at the moment as our broadband is up the chute again. so I won't be around very much at all, no.
[Big Brother] I'm with Tuj on that one, I'm afraid. The less I know, the better!
Mock the loonies
I've probably watched an hour all told. What stupid irritating people they are! I've no need to be militantly anti, no-one I know ever having watched any of it, so they claim.
alone.... alone..... completely solitary
Someone, talk to me! Please............. *sniff* Actually, I'm not despondently lonely, just bored and I have a cold. ;o)
Acute nasal coryza
(pen) Hello, pen, I bet your cold isn't as bad as mine! Head feels like lead, i.e. heavy, deformable and the product of radioactive decay.
talking to penelope
I like maps
Maps are great
Scratch my knees with a dinner plate.
Maps are great
Scratch my knees with a dinner plate.
revisiting
[Darren] your javascript works fine in Safari on a Mac... and lovely satire :) [rab] MCiOS is also having a mild spate of spammers. (If two can be called a spate, but it's a sign of the special nature of the Morningverse that just two such spams seems a flood!)
I like the custom tag idea best as outlined by Dan - newcomers will get it wrong once and the error message can put them right, or if we want more security we can always refer to some obliquely crescentish word such as Mrs T's surname and anyone who still doesn't get it just has to ask! Any spammer getting around that clearly has such fine products for sale I for one will be proud to read about them on a website in Russian full of ladies with their nightwear on...
[Pen] Hola!
I like the custom tag idea best as outlined by Dan - newcomers will get it wrong once and the error message can put them right, or if we want more security we can always refer to some obliquely crescentish word such as Mrs T's surname and anyone who still doesn't get it just has to ask! Any spammer getting around that clearly has such fine products for sale I for one will be proud to read about them on a website in Russian full of ladies with their nightwear on...
[Pen] Hola!
Ah yes, I must get back to finishing mc5-and-a-half. That work thing has rather annoyingly got in the way.
back for a few days
[pen] hope you're feeling better.
hello pen, I fixed my ADSL by going to the local exchange and poking it, just for you. here's a mildly offensive rhyme:
Roses are red,
Violets are blue,
I'm schizophrenic
And so am I.
Roses are red,
Violets are blue,
I'm schizophrenic
And so am I.
Thnaks, thanks all for the good wishes and the rhymes, some of which were more amusing than others, hehehehe. I took the day off yesterday (I take very few days off sick - I think that one is my second this year) to try and get rid of this lurgy, but felt so guilty about it that I spent almost the entire day hoovering and cleaning, washing and ironing. I'm the first one to say that guilt isn't a useful thing to have, but also one of the biggest feelers-of-guilt. *cringe* Any advice?
celebdaq
There only appear to be three of us these days. Where'd'they go?
It's your fault
[Pen] What you need is lots of people blaming you for things. You'll get so indignant about it that you'll stop feeling guilty even when you should. So to help in the process I should like to say that I blame you for all the evils of the modern world, in particular having to go back to work after a holiday.
Thunderstorms
(ImNotJohn)The precipitation (needed for electrification) would be in the cloud and below it but evaporating into the dry air before reaching the ground. These precipitation trails are called virga. This effect is always present in showery or thundery weather even if the stuff reaches the ground. The evaporation absorbs latent heat and cools the air, making it denser and causing a downdraught which appears as a fierce gust of random direction at the surface. It also explains why "April showers" can turn to snow if heavy enough even if the temperature beforehand is as high as 8°C. All this stuff needs rather dry air below the cloud; not too dry, of course or there wouldn't be any cloud in the first place.
*indiginanting*
[INJ] An interesting theory. However, you should know by now that it's your fault for booking the time off in the first place. :o)
[Rosie] Thanks - clear and concise.
post-holiday post
Back from land of coolness. Now in land of heat. *sigh*
[pen] tips for getting rid of that nagging guilty feeling - do anything and everything possible, keep yourself busy. or do something to feel guilty about - go shoplift. apparently clerks is the most shoplifted video cassette in the USA...
and another thing...
I managed to bag a thermometer-hygrometer thingy in Aus. It's been interesting to see what actual readings have been since returning here, especially inside the house. If you ask nicely I'll say, else I'll spare you. Needless to say, my "can't sleep" point is rather different here. It's amazing what you can put up with if you have to.
No problemo
By all means, flerdle - at least from me - I always find others' weather interesting. Of course others may well disagree; privacy laws and all that, I suppose.
ah.
Well, that brought the conversation to a grinding halt, dinnit? Anyone for a mint? *offers*
I think they've all been eating gob-stoppers, flerdle. ;-)
Mints
[flerdle] Does it have a hole in it?
holey
[blamelewis] If you want it to I'm sure we could arrange that. *prepares electric drill*
hey, no playing with drills. play friendly, you lot.
hole hog
[flerdle] Send the hole over - can you attach it to an email?
*drops a pin*
looking down
Ooh, a pin! *picks up pin*
Shaking
At approximately 0642 local time, Monday 29th August, I believe Sydney suffered a mild earth tremor.
(Dujon) So it it didn't wake you up, then? Nothing whatever would awaken me at twenty to seven in the morning. Maybe a full bladder. Maybe even a half-full one. :-(
shakey
[Duj] Was that the moment England won the 4th test match?
Awakening
[Rosie] Néa may awaken me any time. (Sorry, Néa, it's only a bit of joshing - OK?)
[Chalky] What on Earth are you doing at this ungodly time of the morn? In answer to your query, no, see the response above. Still, I might now have a cigarette. Care to join me?
[Chalky] What on Earth are you doing at this ungodly time of the morn? In answer to your query, no, see the response above. Still, I might now have a cigarette. Care to join me?
Awwwww
[Dujon] I bet you say that to all the girls you play MC with.
[Néa] Only the ones who drop pins. Handkerchiefs are so passé. :-)
Handkerchiefs
Also, presumably that wouldn't wake you.
Yet another on back from hols
Brittany was great with a short stroll over the sand dunes to the beach, and come back to home to a scorhing Indian Summer. To make the most of this glorious weather, the ironing board will be set up on the patio this evening. Life is about to settle down into more routine with the schools starting to go back tomorrow.
*message for Chalks*
I'm doing ancient history tomorrow (thursday)... might you be in for a cup of tea later in the day? I'll txt...
not a good reader of handbooks or rules
As things seem to be rather bleak on the matress front since March I have decided to place an ad in the Personals in the London Review of Books. Might be scuppered by a medical indifference to reading. Advice as ever appreciated
*penelope*
*plans to buy bake a cake* :-)
Ah yes. I might not be around for a bit. Keep the place tidy, will you.
at home with Mr Kipling
[rab] you dropping in as well?
just an observation
Funny thing. This Banter Game, although fairly quiet at present, appears to be kept alive by a regular group of MCers. Yet many other long-standing games on this server have a completely different and prolific group of contributors - most of whom never post an entry in here. Why do you suppose that's the case?
maybe an explanation
(Chalky) I suspect many of those who contribute to the games but not to the banter are quite young and lack the confidence to spout off here. Also, older people tend to find their niche and stick with it whereas when you're young you tend to have broader but shallower interests in which contributing a word or two to a game is quite sufficient. There could be other reasons but that'll do for the moment.
The age of garrulity
I thought traditionally it was the young who overconfidently spout off and the older, and wiser, who keep their counsel. Admittedly, seven years here has been enough to disabuse me of this fanciful notion. Some people (such as me) are spouters and some, like Drewsxpa for instance, are containers. :)
Containers
(Projoy) What sort of container is Drewsxpa, then? A 45-gallon drum, rucksack, ladies' purse, breadbin, boxfile, skip, biscuit barrel? I think we should be told.
not a weather report, honest. Oh, ok, perhaps a little.
Just went for the first walk of the season; the temperature's been down a bit these last two or three days, and that plus a nice breeze was enough to prompt us to go for a walk in the evening (last time was some time in May, we think). Amazing. And we didn't even die.
[flerdle] It's been rather uncomfortably humid here in mid-south UK which has made for a very weary sort of day. I've been reading your blog the last few days so I know that what we're experiencing bears no comparison ....
... which helps me understand how going for a walk in a nice breeze is something to celebrate :-)
... which helps me understand how going for a walk in a nice breeze is something to celebrate :-)
*peeks from round the corner, notes an absence of vandalism, disappears again*
Posting Habits
Going back a few posts, if I may comment, the reason I (and possibly others) don't often post here (although I read fairly often) is that it feels a little intrusive, as though butting in to someone else's conversation. I suppose 'eavesdropping' is just as rude, if not worse though! *feels ashamed and shuffles off*
[Rosie] I long to ask him, but I don't know he'd care to tell me.
Intrusion
(Ella) If you've got something to say, say it. And even if you haven't, still say it, be it ever so banal. This place may appear cliquey to the relatively infrequent poster but it isn't. Even if we assume it is, all you have to do is put up a few remarks and you'll be part of the clique anyway. :-)
*sprays "rab is a weneir" on the wall*
graffiti
(Néa) A what? Is it rude?
*intrigued*
[Rosie, above]
Well, that was informative
Curse these fingers! I was going to say that it's also easy to get left behind by an ongoing debate, which if you come in halfway through or just simply aren't interested in, is very difficult to comment upon. Does that sentence look coherent?
* crosses out weneir and replaces with "weiner"*
Exactly
[Projoy] It's nice to be understood :-)
*crosses out weiner and replaces with "Weimar"*
*crosses out Weimar and replaces with 'whiner'*
*crosses out whiner and replaces with 'wino'*
...and nods in agreement with Tuj's comment about getting left behind while welcoming Rosie's invitation to join the clique.
*crosses out 'wino' and replaces with 'window'*
*crosses out "window" and replaces with "willow"*
*crosses out "willow" and replaces with "tara"*
...and is with tuj and Ella on this one.
*crosses out "tera" and replaces with "terror"*
I'm on the bean bags for this one with the break out area through the patio doors just by the swaying palm trees.
In the last couple of days I've killed so many wasps. We have a very low eaves house and they have made a nest behind the bargeboard. There have been too many flying around to spray during the day, but in the dark just after sunset when they are all inside, it’s spay time. In the past 2 two there have been over 200 on the ground outside and another 100 in the lobby as they have found a way from the cavity though the blockwork to come up behind the skirting but the are drowsey even a four year old can kill them – hitting them several times before they stop twitching. The good news is this year we were not plagued by flying ants, it was the neighbours turn to run inside one the summers evening.
Vespicide
(Inkspot) Sounds 'orrible. Where are you?
M4
I'm encamped in the small north Wiltshire town of Wootton Bassett, famed for its black and white timber framed town hall on stilts. The wasp thing could have been worse the house is drylined so they could crawl anywhere behind the plasterboard and find their way between the floor joists.
Spaying the wasps...
[Inkspot] I'm impressed. That must require both great courage and great delicacy.
B269
(Inkspot) Not a single wasp here in snooty Surrey. I didn't know about the Wilts stilts. Was it transplanted from Jakutsk, Siberia, where all buildings are on stilts to avoid melting the permafrost? Probably not.
Wootton Bassett, famed for its black and white timber framed town hall on stilts
[Inkspot] Does it walk around of its own accord?
[Darren] At last we know what happened to Baba Yaga's Hut! By the way, have you given up on the Kingdom of Loathing?
What it says on the can
Tonight it is showdown time with the beasties we have "Wasp Nest Destroyer Foam" it will be put along the bargebord, a little treat for them to take home.
A lovely warm summers evening here in SN4 just right for sitting out with a glass of wine.
A lovely warm summers evening here in SN4 just right for sitting out with a glass of wine.
good evening everyone. as people who frequent orangeMC will have realised, I am now settled in québec (finally) so you can expect me on here a little more.
and the weather, today started out quite warm here in QC but it quickly went cold when I was sat on a hill watching a 'football' game. more clothes were definitely needed. and I have a horrible feeling this is that cold that everyone here keeps on telling me about. oh dear.
and the weather, today started out quite warm here in QC but it quickly went cold when I was sat on a hill watching a 'football' game. more clothes were definitely needed. and I have a horrible feeling this is that cold that everyone here keeps on telling me about. oh dear.
Canadian brass monkeys
(nights) I don't think you've seen anything yet. The mean January temperature in Montreal is -10°C.
[nights] My sister lives about 60 miles from you. Come the Christmas and New Year party season, she can keep bags of ice for cocktails outside the kitchen door for two weeks without them defrosting. One year, her daughters built themselves a skating rink on the drive (battens, polythene sheeting and several hundred gallons of water) which lasted for three months... I'd send out for thermal socks if I was you.
[UK] Pretty much. I suspect they must have deleted my player by now.
[Darren] No, since you have a Mr A. If you don't want to go back and feel like donating anything to another worthy clan member (ahem), I'm sure I could think of a couple of potential beneficiaries... (grovel ends)
Barbie gets married
Last weekend was the celebrity wedding of the year with squillions being paid for the exclusive pictures, to whet your appetite here is the dress and here, are Peter and Kate cutting the cake
(Inkspot) Can't get the links to work, not that I shall lose any sleep over it. :-)
Barbie
(Inkspot) Link works now. Christ, what a pair of 12-volts! I still hope not to lose sleep.
*faints, recovers, looks at second pic and dies*
Inkspot, you are a dirty old man (you too, Rosie). I'm a face man myself. :-)
*sniggers*
Blimey. I'm amazed at how cleverly they get everything to look so plastic, including the smiles.
whoah
I'm kind of glad I have absolutely no idea who they are.
plastic, plastic everywhere
The moment I saw those pics in the office yesterday, I started up a chorus of "I'm a Barbie Girl, in my Barbie world..."
totem
... and there's certainly something about the shape of that cake ...
Come on Barbie, let's go party!
And won't they be proud to show those pictures to their grandchildren some day. Also, not that I don't agree with flerdle... but who are they??
Néa] In this case, ignorance really is bliss.
[thermals] what, you think my mother let me leave Stanstead without thermal socks? I (possibly incorrectly) think I'm ready for whatever winter can throw at me, including a clause in my housing contract saying it's my responsibility to keep the balcony free of snow. it's sort of hard to contemplate sat on my balcony in a pleasant warm breeze on a pleasant evening in québec, smoking godawful canadian cigarettes. I miss L&B.
[pics] and OMFG I'm glad I'm in the land of maple right now...
Jugs
(Dujon) How dare you! I'm a face man also but when presented with these absurdly compressed mountains of flesh one cannot but notice them. But in terms of allure they are neither necessary nor sufficient.
Giggling
Fair dos, Rosie. Sorry, Inkspot.
I thought, like the plastic of penelope, it was just an image until, upon opening my morning paper, there was one of the photographs purporting to be a reproduction from a certain well know celebrity's wedding. Ruddy 'eck. I'll put my glass eye back in now.
I thought, like the plastic of penelope, it was just an image until, upon opening my morning paper, there was one of the photographs purporting to be a reproduction from a certain well know celebrity's wedding. Ruddy 'eck. I'll put my glass eye back in now.
Ohm sweet ohm
It's nice to be home. Such a shame I'll be buggering off to Luxembourg shortly.
The Grand Duchy
I spent an afternoon in Luxembourg once. It's quite nice, fairly eccentric. Better when they had Belgian Francs though.
Letzeburg
We had a weekend in Luxembourg city a few years ago - probably about long enough. Very pleasant, good food (especially patisserie), terrific situation.
Lux
Luxembourg
I used to listen to Radio Luxemburg (sic) many moons ago, for what it's worth.
Old Radio
[Rosie] So did I. Wasn't there a DJ with Motor Neurone Disease whose wife was his sidekick on his evening show?
And, for what it's worth, I once worked for a guy who had been a skipper on Radio Caroline.
And, for what it's worth, I once worked for a guy who had been a skipper on Radio Caroline.
Luxembourg
Went to a conference there three years or so ago. It's, er, really small. They run bus tours of the whole country that leave the main square at noon, and are back by 3.30pm.
Highlight of the trip? I bunked off the main conference dinner to go to a performance of a Handel opera at the Conservatoire (on the other side of town from Euroville, and so about 30 minutes walk ...). A stunning performance space - better than any I can think of in London of its size (about the capacity of the Barbican concert hall, I reckon). The piece was commissioned from Handel for a private occasion, and had never been performed since. A very, very fine performance it was too - only three singers IIRC, so very exposed, and they all coped and performed superbly. Excuse the slippage into anecdotage ... * wanders off, humming to self *
Highlight of the trip? I bunked off the main conference dinner to go to a performance of a Handel opera at the Conservatoire (on the other side of town from Euroville, and so about 30 minutes walk ...). A stunning performance space - better than any I can think of in London of its size (about the capacity of the Barbican concert hall, I reckon). The piece was commissioned from Handel for a private occasion, and had never been performed since. A very, very fine performance it was too - only three singers IIRC, so very exposed, and they all coped and performed superbly. Excuse the slippage into anecdotage ... * wanders off, humming to self *
Radio Lux
(pen) Don't remember that. There were no women on RL when I listened (about 1957-63). It was people like Sam Costa and Jack Jackson. I dusted off my old singles the other day and played some Duane Eddy, Fats Domino and Buddy Holly stuff. A nice lowbrow, nostalgic relaxation.
[Rosie] Wuld've been about 1973 when I listened. Eek. Now, Fats Domino is one of my favourites... excellent driving music!
I had my worst 'Senior Moment' to date this morning. I now have a head full of deodorant rather than hair spray.
I had my worst 'Senior Moment' to date this morning. I now have a head full of deodorant rather than hair spray.
Sticky
Still, better than having your armpits glued together with 'Ellnette' : )
[Ella] Oh, I dunno. At least the world's finest hairspray brushes out. I just won't get a sweaty brow for a day or two. And my hair stinks.:o/
Wrong tube
I once discovered that Savlon is not especially nice toothpaste.
...
(Then again, maybe not quite as bad as spreading Colgate on a burn ...)
Fats Domino
(pen) I can do a boogie-woogie version of Be My Guest (ca 1959) on the piano.
sraddehC
Just been looking back through the Regurgitated Cheddars and my sides are still aching. Long may it continue.
Hello.
Hello, Knobbly. Haven't seen you here before. Is it just your knees?
[Rosie] Is what just his knees? You shouldn't ask questions like that of complete strangers, you know. [Knobbly] Seriously, is it just your knees?
My knees
[Rosie]Well, I'm frankly offended if no-one has noticed my previous presence or recent absence - I haven't popped in much over the holiday, but this is my main procrastination site when I'm meant to be working at university. I missed all the bad puns.[Wol and Rosie]I did shorten my screenname from 'Knobbly Knees' because I couldn't be bothered to keep typing it. But, no I don't think they are really.
wrong products first thing in the morning are always a problem. I tried to brush my teeth with my hosuemate's hair gel once. I don't even USE the damn stuff, my hair is LONG, why did I even pick it up?
Québec is still lovely (smirk).
Québec is still lovely (smirk).
Did you slick them back or tousle them.
(nights) I hope you used a fine tooth-comb. They are definitely the best.
If you ask me...
[Pook] That was one of the funniest comments anyone's posted in ages.
Faux pas
Having only just discovered the joys of mc5 I noticed last night I appear to share my handle with another. I apologise wholeheartedly, and shall henceforth submit as Pooksadaisy.
(Simons Mith) The irony is,toothpaste gives me more style and hold than any other hair product.
Pook honor
[Pook] Are you sure? I don't recall a previous pook on these pages.
Faix pas -cond.
(Projoy) It was quite an old post on ...so help me god, but it's no great shakes to modify my eke-name. On a lighter note however, as I write this the rain is hammering on my window and the river levels are rising, which means that tomorrow I'll go kayaking instead of trawling through old MC games.
(Pooksad) You don't live in Orpington, then?
Orpington
(Rosie) It's funny you should say that. Many is the time, when gambolling over the wind swept fells or careening down a grade three Lakeland river,that I've dreamed of rolling up my flat cap, selling the whippet and moving to Orpington.
Hello
Welcome, Pooksad. I admire your pastime (there's a white water rapid place just down the road from me) although I've never understood the fun to be found in getting oneself withchered.
Getting moist
(Dujon)Skylarking around in skin tight neoprene whilst wearing a silly hat, life just doesn't get better than that!!!
[Pooksad] Do you work in a circus? ;o)
wet dreams
As the alarm clock went off this morning, I was having a dream about explaining how the Thames Barrier works. What the blazes is that all about??!!
Dreams
[pen] I really don't know... but it made me laugh, so thanks, I needed it :)
I had another dream last night about being booked for some museum teaching, but finding I wasn't prepared. Had a lot of those lately.
(which of course is just a variant on the going-on-stage-without-knowing-the-lines nightmare. Not had that particular version for ages, tho).
Freud fest
Which of course is just a variant on the naked in public nightmare. I have that one all the time!
gnashing
I find I lose all my teeth in a lot of dreams lately.
teef
[Chalky] According to wah wah wah dot myjellybean.com/dream/paget.html, "If your teeth fell out or you spit them out, you are anxious about money." Were they grey and rotten? Health problems. Loose? Untrustworthy friends. Broken and worn down? Relationship problems.
Losing my teeth is my recurring nightmare. I have it five or six times a year - they just crumble in my mouth and I spit out the pieces.
ditto spitto
[pen] same. And if [Raak]'s webref is to be taken seriously, I can't say it happens when I'm anxious about money either. P'haps it's fear of old age?
My recurring nightmare involves wandering around an empty house trying all the doors which are locked, but when I get to the last door I know it's unlocked but I'm afraid to open it. I have this dream a couple of times a year.
Somebody help us!!
I'm usually trussed up in a pink tutu amongst a troupe of ballet dancers in perfect step, trying desperately to keep up, but, to the amusement of the audience, always a few steps behind :-)
Frustration dreams
One I used to have occasionally was about football. I was running down the right wing on to a pass but could never, ever, EVER quite reach it, and it all happened in slow motion. And why the right wing? I could no more cross a ball with my right foot than I could speak fluent Basque. It was for standing on. Not a very good footballer.
Pretty in pink
(ella) Never mind all that, what about your dreams?
mooooooo i had dream bout a cow driving a bus, it tried to run me over, guess what im going to marry someone called pook!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh dear
...Rosie's been at the Carlsberg again.
I don't believe in the evils of social drinking, I only ever drink alone and to help me forget.
[Pooksad] forget what?
Aaargghh,must.. resist.. inevitable punchline!!!
dunno, can't remember - (bugger!!)
Impersonation
(Projoy) Never touch the stuff! I'm a bitter man. I'll rephrase that - I drink bitter.
dreams
hey, my funeral dreams have returned. what the hell am I worried about THIS time?
[pooksad] oh yes, very good. actually, I loved it, hungry as I am for british humour on this side of the atlantic.
[pooksad] oh yes, very good. actually, I loved it, hungry as I am for british humour on this side of the atlantic.
Sweet dreams
(nights) I wouldn't worry if I were you, it's probably just an irrational fear of your life slipping away followed by eternity in a cold dark hole in the ground, while the people you knew and loved, move in like jackels to pick over the remains of your life. Personally, I like to bear in mind what Hume said, which goes something like "don't try making sense of it all, just go and play pool instead."
exiting the gene pool
[pook] But did he mean play pool here or in the great pool hall in the sky?
train dreams
I keep dreaming about being on a train, and desperately trying to get somewhere, and it’s always very stressful. In the last one, my mum and I managed to avoid the conductor and didn’t even pay for our tickets by running along the train the whole trip. My cat was in one of the carriages and looked rather surprised as I pelted past her. No-one else was bothered, though.
Oh, I get those too - assorted on-the-wrong-train or missed-the-connection dreams. Mind you that happens often in real life, so no great mystery there.
Missing the train
I don't have train dreams... is that because I don't travel by train? Or am I emotionally disabled in some way? I do have driving dreams from time to time - and my late father is sometimes a passenger, which is nice.
A quick pee
I just read Regurgitated Cheddars, Kim,Chalky,Wymo,Projoy and Blob,very very slick,I laughted that much I nearly bought a round.
Correction
I really mean't the Limerick,and I also mean't laughed without the t.
I used to have loads of train dreams, but they eventually finished. Often I was waiting for a train, or stopping a train that was running, or trying to get off a moving train. Also lots of lift dreams, where they would malfunction or catch fire. I've been stuck in plenty of lifts in real life, but it's never frightened me, I think it's just a mental symbol for feeling stuck in an awkward situation in life. Similar with the trains. (None of that was my recurring nightmare, though, but that's a bit odd even for here.) Still, enough about my insanity.
(Darren) Now I really am curious, odd is good.
Must stop going out in that tutu
(Darren)A problem shared is a problem....that everyone can bring up whenever they need a good chuckle. Carry on though, please.
such stuff as dreams
I've never had a train dream. We don't use them much on the west coast of the States. I've had pen's teeth dream countless times, and the other night I dreamed I was searching for treasure in a lost tomb. I fell through a trap floor and got bit by a snake.
Treasure dreams
Strangely enough I had the treasure dream the other night, but rather than get bitten by a snake I discovered the treasure at the top of a pyramid. It was Gilette razors. Tch, even my dreams are sponsored now.
lilting limericks
[Pooks] thanks :-) - not wishing to tempt fate but the latest few should all have 'bravo' stamped on them. Have you visited the Limerick games in the other two servers yet?
Träumerei
[Darren] Your train dreams - did they stop around the time of the Beeching report? [teeth] Not had that one for a while - used to get it a lot. Incredibly vivid - the dream was that I was lying in bed, trying to get to sleep, with my teeth falling out like toppling dominoes. The segue between the dream and waking to feel in my mouth was imperceptible. I had understood it to mean nothing more specific than insecurity; which I would put my hand up to at the time.
the best medicine
(Chalky) Just spent the last hour in absolute tears, just what I needed. I am currently having too much of a good thing in my neck of the woods. I spent all summer waiting for it to rain so I could go kayaking, guess what, my local river has in the space of a week, gone from a stagnant trickle to a grade 5 raging monster, with holes and stoppers that would eat you alive if you got too near. Hoo hum.
[Wol] No, I wasn't even born then!
Limericks - sorry, seems I DID tempt fate by saying they were going so well
Hopeless
I give up. Men are a complete mystery. Why would anyone approach you, chat you up (yeah, online, I admit), call you when you least expect it, then invite you out on a date, only to stand you up without a word? I sat in the bar of I bet Berkhamstead's Cafe Rouge drinking coke for half an hour, feeling like an idiot. I bet the patron has seen it a thousand times... At least I have the satisfaction of knowing I'm not the one who acted like a jerk.
[Darren] ;-) [pen] We're not all complete prats; I can only apologise for those that are, and are bad enough not to apologise for themselves. The guy in question - he isn't the patron of Cafe Rouge in Berkhamsted, is he?
[Wol] He's not the patron, no... and thanks :o) I think I wrote that in a kind of early-morning rage. *sigh* Onwards and upwards... salsa dancing tonight. At least if anyone does you wrong at salsa dancing, they're right there in front of you and you can kick their shins.
(Pen) There really is no mystery about them, they're just hopeless!!!
one, two, three... five, six, seven...
Anyone want to hear about salsa dancing? I'm going to tell you anyway. It was brilliant! My first time, and the men were still hopeless - they're supposed to lead, and either I'm not listening carefully enough or they're too scared to be firm and lead properly. I suspect it might be my fault... mwahahaha!
(pen) Most men, and especially musicians, can't dance unless they're pissed, and don't actually like it, except as a grope. But some can, and I wish you well. :-)
I can't dance unless it's a really grinding techno beat. at which point it doesn't matter. however I echo Rosie when I say that some men (including me) enjoy dancing 'properly', and I'm sure you will find one. but you can't have me for several reasons, the most important of which being that an ocean separates us. *sigh*.
Two left feet
I'm with Rosie, penelope.
I have not had a dancing lesson in my life to date. I also suspect that I am one of a majority of males in that situation. Years ago, as a teenager, I looked at some books on the subject (well, one) which was full of black and white footprints. I gave up. When I watch accomplished dancers - and I'm not speaking of those 'professionals' who trip the light fantastic with fixed grins on their faces - I can see that many people gain much pleasure from the exercise. You are now allowed to address me as Wallflower.
I have not had a dancing lesson in my life to date. I also suspect that I am one of a majority of males in that situation. Years ago, as a teenager, I looked at some books on the subject (well, one) which was full of black and white footprints. I gave up. When I watch accomplished dancers - and I'm not speaking of those 'professionals' who trip the light fantastic with fixed grins on their faces - I can see that many people gain much pleasure from the exercise. You are now allowed to address me as Wallflower.
to all gentlemen
Please, chaps, don't give up. Dancing with a man leading is one of the nicest things I've done for a long time. They're itching for more men to join in, and if you just take a deep breath and dive in with a beginner's class (which is what I did last night), follow the teacher for an hour - which is all enjoyable - you'll be rewarded with a floor full of ladies to choose from. It's not hard, you just have to count: one, two, three... five, six, seven... and practice. The music is great, they hand out flyers for more events while you're there - I could dance four nights a week without a permanent partner and without driving too far at all if I wanted - and they even sell beer there. What more could you want? My motivations for dancing? To get out of the house, perhaps find a nice man to dance with more than once, and to get a smaller arse!
I'm sorry I can't take your call...
Oh, and the mystery of the date-standing-me-up on Sunday night has been explained. He was locked up in a police cell for the weekend when the officers returning his escaped dog realised there was a warrant for his arrest after previously being charged with being drunk in charge of a vehicle when he slept in the car after a wedding month ago. He got the date of his magistrate's court appearance wrong and failed to attend, so was locked up on Saturday afternoon, and had to wait there until a court appearance on Monday. I don't think you could make it up. I could make a fortune from writing a newspaper column about my experiences as a single woman... or has it already been done?
I'm laughing, actually, but I don't think I'll be talking to him again.
I rest my case!!!
(Pen) Still, it could have been worse, he might have actually turned up for the date. I can't imagine what kind of trouble you would have ended up in, probably something to do with drunken dogs wearing tutu's!!!
1,2,3,5,6,7
[pen] My wife used to go to Salsa in Berkhamsted, but hasn't been for a while. No way I'd go with her - one of the benefits of being married is that I don't feel compelled to dance very often these days. I dare say that if we ever got divorced or separated I'd have to once again suffer the terpsichorean muse - but until then I stay seated and quaff the vino instead.
[penelope] You can also take heart from this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3006130.stm
[penelope] Not that I'm saying you're over 75 (on the contrary, I've always considered you to be something of a pin-up around these parts) but at least you can see there are advantages to dancing.
[Darren] Thank you - the advantage to dancing is you know your dance partner isn't locked up...
*blushs at the pin-up reference, but drains to a deathly pallor when she realises this could mean a dart-board pin-up*
*blushs at the pin-up reference, but drains to a deathly pallor when she realises this could mean a dart-board pin-up*
pin-ups
Everyone under 75 qualifying as a pin-up sounds like an interesting rule. I know that's not what you said, Darren, but it would be.
marriage and dancing
[Blob] Hmmm. Mr Néa's view is that if he hadn't been married, he never would have had to dance - as it is, he had to dance the waltz at his weddings. Personally, I rather enjoy dancing provided it's with a guy who can lead. I don't dance very well, so the man has to be good at it.
is it bad that every time I go dancing, I wake up the following morning with sore feet, shoulders and neck?
Depends if you were breakdancing or not.
Or the type of car in which you slept. penelope might be able to help.
I've noticed in the last few years, a growing tendancy to groan slightly when getting in and out of chairs, regardless of the previous evenings activities. I don't suppose this is something that's going to improve with age! The funny thing is, when I'm out on the river and especially when other people are egging me on, I do all kinds of crazy stunts, but when I get home, I do the old "wait till your my age" routine, so that my flatmate makes me a nice cuppa, Hee Hee.
[Pooksad] You are clearly starting to experience the hypocrisy of old age. This is also manufested in the desire to resort to adages ssuch as: "Don't do as I do, do as I say,", and "When I was young..." Keep a note of the symptoms.
Sigh...
If only I had listened to what my mother told me when I was younger.
[Pooksad] For more symptoms, see the "You know you're getting old when......." game in the archive.
Ooh 'eck
(Raak) Duly noted and alarmingly familiar.
Welcome back
Sorry it's been a while. Check the info page to read about posting links (you get a couple for free, at least until we start getting spammed again), and the HTML rewriter that automatically Goods your Bad HTML. This is a work in progress, so feel free to point out where the dwimmery failed. I ran it on all 47000-odd existing moves, fewer than 100 of which caused big problems. The only thing that might catch you out is that if you put a paragraph in the middle of a bold move, only the first bit appears bold. I'm working on that.
Hidden text
hiding text but not, note, HTML (yet)Enjoy.
enjoying
Ooooh! Funky.
*cheers*
Thanks for all your hard work!
Well - Hello again :-) :-)
Three cheers (as promised)
Hip hip
Hip hip
Hip hip
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hooray!Hip hip
Hidden text
hooray!Hip hip
Hidden text
hooray!Virgin
Hello all, I've not been here before in this or a previous guise, so I can't say whether this is better or not.
Congratulations
It looks really good! Adding my podume of thanks to the pile.
Welcome back! Very tasteful reveal buttons! BTW, what's the difference between "silky smooth" and "safe but dull"? I can't see a difference on Safari.
Ah, it's the dotted borders!
Hap hap... hoozah!
Hurrah! I like the fact that everyone is now called Monica. It suits my new latin temperament, apart from the fact that tonight it was a bad lesson. Despite dancing A LOT, I got everything wrong and my deodorant failed. :o(
Hello everyone.
Welcome back
*rabblauds*
Nice to be back in a posh new home. Well done, rab, and thanks.
Oh well done Rab. It looks rather excellent!
Any possibility to reinstall the script for reordering the Jigsaw story? Or perhaps Orange might host it, since it's an Orange game?
Stuff
Thanks.
[Raak] Not just the borders, but also the placing of the corner elements and spacing/padding within the main box. The 'proper' version is able to apply the right styling to all elements based on where they appear; the IE version has to fake a lot of this by hand and is therefore more likely to apply the wrong spacing to the wrong elements. It just looks shit, basically.
[Raak] Bugger, I don't think I kept a copy of that script. Perhaps you could see if Dunx is happy to host, and mail him a copy. If he's unwilling send it along and I'll pop it up somewhere.
And I can get in at work! Double Hoozah!
The Return
Splendid to see mc5's return to the Morniverse from realms unkown and unknowable. I also like the - very smart !
Hidden text
Little hidden thingySmall question
[rab] How does one return to the menu ? I know you can use the browser "back" button, but isn't there usually a pressable button - or am I being dimnthick as usual ?
Aha - it's that faint little "up" down the bottom there isn't it.
Hi folks. Nice colour scheme Rab! I must confess I feel a little underdressed.
Ooooooooooooh
Very very shiny!!
...but suddenly it appears to not like my name.
Hm. This game accepts the é but the Limericks game didn't. Mysteeeerious.
Is it just me?
In the team game, when using IE, I am unable to see the team clours of the persons name wehich could be why some players have confused web colors. Firefox renders them as they should be seen in IE they all the default colour are as in this.
Hallowen is over now to look forward to Bonfire night. We will probably be going to an organised event on Saturday and will be taking along our 4 year old for the first time. Previous years the show has been quite spectacular.
Still don't understand about the magic word thing... well, I'll worry about that if I ever want to post links.
In the mean time, to go off on a tangent; I currently have posession of the email adress a.n.onymous(@hotmail.co.uk) and no longer want it. If anyone can convincingly explain why they need it, perhaps it can be arranged, rather than just let the account time out and go to waste.
In the mean time, to go off on a tangent; I currently have posession of the email adress a.n.onymous(@hotmail.co.uk) and no longer want it. If anyone can convincingly explain why they need it, perhaps it can be arranged, rather than just let the account time out and go to waste.
Magic word
(Knobbly) The magic word is secret (seriously). Send me an email and all will be revealed. My email address is at http://www.geocities.com/pantsmcprofiles/profiles.html#ros
Nöthiñg
[Néa] Dunno why that was. It should cope with füññy chåractérs better now.
[Inkspøt] I've colourised the colour as well as the moniker now.
What time is it?
Checking the time?
Call me a loony but I've always liked the smell of fresh paint
[rab] In the words of a certain fictional television civil servant, "he who would keep a secret must keep it a secret that he hath a secret to keep." One of the reasons I removed the prompt from the enabling field over at that other place and made it unobtrusive is that most of the time no prompt is needed or wanted. When it is, the user will get an explanatory message. As long as people are shown that a special word is wanted (whether it's actually wanted or not for any given post) and without the hint obviating the need to ask, they're going to keep asking about it.
(Dan) My favourite smells are ortho-nitrophenol and tertiary butyl alcohol, each in their own way nasally sumptuous. What that makes me I'd rather not know.
[Dan] True. And here you get a couple of links for free, so there's not even any reason for it to appear under normal circumstances.
[rab] Two comments beyond my earlier wordless praise.
1. The look of the site really is excellent -- very sleek, very clean, very functional.
2. I tried to access the AVMA game on the site by cellphone today and got a "memory full" message. I'm able to access games on Orange and mcios without problem. Any reason that you know of why this site would be more problematic?
1. The look of the site really is excellent -- very sleek, very clean, very functional.
2. I tried to access the AVMA game on the site by cellphone today and got a "memory full" message. I'm able to access games on Orange and mcios without problem. Any reason that you know of why this site would be more problematic?
[CdM] 1. Thanks. 2. No idea. Did any of the other pages work?
Nice one, rab - good to see it back.
MC5
Jolly nice rab, well done! I look forward to wasting the other half of my day here.
And I'd say this is poo
Hidden text
very clever and definitely notCharlie is my darling
I don't manage to see much tv, and period dramas are a real turn off. So it has been a real pleasure to watch Bleak House these last couple of weeks shown as short episodes. The cast has been great and it has been wonderful to see the various plot lines emerge and slowly twist together. I'm hooked.
MC5 and me
We are back! Great work, rab. My apologies for not appearing earlier but a local storm put my ADSL modem to the ulitimate test; it failed. Prior to that my hot water heater began to urinate, my little router seems also to have suffered from the modem's spike syndrome and my blood pressure thingywhatsit decided it had a mind of its own and inflates its cuff at random moments: It's not been a good week financially as that's about £500+ out of the reserve. *sobs and looks with large green eyes for sympathy*
Old green eyes is back.
(Dujon) Sorry to hear about your recent woes, there's been far too much water everywhere it seems,(even for me). And yes the big old green eyes thing works, so stop it already! I've been having some computer issues as well, although nothing as bad as yours. The combination of new firewall and ignorance on my part kept me quiet for a while. The funny thing is, I had never even owned a computer or used the internet until September, but I felt decidely antsy being incommunicado for just a few days, and needless to say I've missed MC5 terribly. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Cheers Rab!
After an initial flurry this has gone very quiet. (Pooksad) No computer until recently? Are you an old git like me? Good.
Well bonfire night was a bit of a wet squib with the display cancelled due to bad weather, but looking out through the window when we returned a couple of displays had braved the rain.
I wonder if they were French, I can hardly believe they ahve gone on for so long (10 or 11 nights now). One MEP on the radio was saying today that discrimination is very much institutionalised in France. I find that hard to believe. Despite the bad press about being politically correct, equal opps is everywhere and is about to be widened. France seems to be very strong about it's image of the Republic and not accept outside influences that may dilute this.
I wonder if they were French, I can hardly believe they ahve gone on for so long (10 or 11 nights now). One MEP on the radio was saying today that discrimination is very much institutionalised in France. I find that hard to believe. Despite the bad press about being politically correct, equal opps is everywhere and is about to be widened. France seems to be very strong about it's image of the Republic and not accept outside influences that may dilute this.
Head says no, knees say yes.
(Rosie) I'm an incredibly late developer. My flatmate thinks I'm probably due for my mid-life crisis, whereas i feel I'm just shaking off my teenage angst. I don't know why, but I seemed to go out of my way to avoid computers for years. It was only after a cycling accident and time spent sat at home nursing broken ribs that I started fiddling with my flatmates computer. I can't leave the bloody things alone now. Ho hum.
Eyes dried
[Pooksad] Thanks for your kind words. Unfortunately Mrs Duj woke up to my wide-and-misty-eyed ploy years and years ago.
[French bonfires] I've been shaking my head in disbelief at the goings on. Maybe I shouldn't, seventeen people have just been arrested in this country for allegedly plotting (and having the materials for) the execution of nefarious deeds. Their lawyer, predictably I suppose, has already pulled out the race/religious persecution card. Before anyone hops on the racist bandwaggon, I'm not. I have worked with and enjoyed the company of many, many who have migrated to this country from parts remote.
[French bonfires] I've been shaking my head in disbelief at the goings on. Maybe I shouldn't, seventeen people have just been arrested in this country for allegedly plotting (and having the materials for) the execution of nefarious deeds. Their lawyer, predictably I suppose, has already pulled out the race/religious persecution card. Before anyone hops on the racist bandwaggon, I'm not. I have worked with and enjoyed the company of many, many who have migrated to this country from parts remote.
Cleverness
I nore that on another page here. one of us posted a link by just writing it out in full, rather than popping it in as an <a href ... >. The latter works, incidentally. Try it! And, in general, there's no need to be clever and try and second guess what is and isn't allowed. Try the obvious thing, and if it doesn't work, the server will tell you (usually).
Voitures Flambés
One of my colleagues is a well qualified business consultant who just so happens to be of Algerian descent. She has recounted many stories of the racism she faces here... apartments suddenly becoming "unavailable", negative attitudes from shopkeepers and so on. Of course, it is clear that while there may be a political or cultural basis to these demonstrations, rioters are in general just that: rioters. A gendarme friend of mine last night arrested a 16 year old boy who set fire to a Renault 25 in Toulouse. Said friend is convinced that the boys actions were not politically motivated.
According to a French colleague, the riots were deliberately provoked by Sarkozy. It started with the two youths who died in an electricity substation while fleeing from the police. It turned out they hadn't committed any theft. They were running because the police were chasing, and the police were chasing because they were running. Then a few nights later, 150 police were sent in at midnight on a Tuesday, before any disturbances had happened, and acted belligerently until there was a riot, whereupon Sarkozy made public statement about "scum", further inflaming the situation. He's a populist right-wing politician, who provoked the riots in order to be seen to be doing something about them. None of which excuses anyone who torched a car, but the rioters are just useful idiots in Sarkozy's cause. None of this would have happened without Sarkozy. Or so my colleague said.
(Raak) Your colleague hasn't looked very deep, has he? People who torch cars are seriously at odds with their world, and maybe with themselves as a consequence. It is impossible to believe that Sarkozy "caused" the riots even though they might be quite useful to him. From what I've read French society is structurally quite racist, much more so than this country.
[Raak] The car-torching was in full swing when Sarkozy made his comment that rioters are "scum" (rough tranlsation). Of course, the minority group interpreted this as "minority groups are scum". Also, what I fail to see, as I failed to see during the LA riots, is how the actions of the police - detestable as they may have been - justifies such behaviour. Some may say that this is the only form of protest that these particular minority groups have. I vehemently disagree thinking rather that a peaceful demonstration on a massive scale would be much more effective in garnering sympathy amongst the larger population. From this I draw my conclusion that rioters do what they do because they get a kick out of rioting.
[Huxley] The actions of the police don't justify the actions of the rioters, but on the other hand, if the police did incite the riot, the riot doesn't justify the incitement.
corrupting influence?
This site used to be steam-powered, but apparently it is no longer! What are you using now? I hope it's environmentally friendly, and doesn't involve grinding up penguins.
Also, please wish me luck for the appointment I have at the dentist in 1 hour to remove a wisdom tooth. It's not causing me any pain, so hopefully the nerve is dead, but it is falling apart. I still expect to be sore as it's quite a fiddly place to extract from, though.
*wishes dental good fortune*
I had a single wisdom tooth removed about two years ago, and it actually wasn't bad at all.
[snorgle] Good luck! Expect some discomfort, but console yourself with the fact that it's not real pain, and you'll never have pain in that tooth, nor the pain of an emerging impacted wisdom tooth, again. Besides, it gives you the excuse to drink medicinal strong spirits over the weekend until it feels better. :o)
*fortune-wishes*
Pssst, râb?
AVMA killed my accent again. (I wish....)
Losing your wisdom
Yes, unlike CdM, I found it did sting rather. Pace pen, be careful not to drink alcohol if they put you on strong antibiotics afterward! Oh, and if it does hurt, a cloth damped with hot water held to the face is a lifesaver, better (although more short-lived) than Ibuprofen.
[Projoy] I don't remember having antibiotics after an extraction about three years ago. You probably don't get them unless the procedure throws up complications. Where's Lib when you need her?
Alcohol & Teeth
One of the poular antibiotics prescribed after dental ops is Metronidazole - do not take alcohol while taking - or for a couple of days after taking - this anti-b otherwise you'll get flushes, palpitations and symptoms like food poisoning.
antibio
[Metronidazole] Yes, that was the one they gave me. The first time I had w/t operation I was put on a course of anti-fungals, the second time it was just salt mouthwashes... until the inevitable infection happened, and they had to give me antibiotics anyway.
extracted
It came out without much trouble, and it's a bit sore, but the 3 pints I drank this afternoon, and the ibuprofen has helped. It wasn't impacted, it had just become quite decayed. All my wisdom teeth came through without much trouble, they're just a little jammed in, and tend to point backwards as they don't have much room. The root on the one I had out today wasn't that long, comparted to what molars normally are, and was a bit of a funny shape, so this made it easier to pull!
I didn't need any antibiotics and it's not been bleeding too much, either. So thanks for all your good wishes!
random thought
*thinks* Chavs and Chav-nots...
It's a bit nippy
A frost on the ground and the car lock is frozen, all the more reason to go back upstairs to start the decorating on of the bedrooms. On the other hand while I have the house to myself I'll do a bit of surfing first and a cup of tea.
Néa's missing accent
[Néa] Does your accent come out both properly and as a splurge when you're using the same browser on the same computer? If so that's very weird... if not, I may be able to concoct a solution.
*notes that the last three games have slowed down* - not that I play them, mind.
Very weird
It works in this game but not in AVMA (I don't think it ever worked there). Same browser (Firefox), same computer. I have started writing my accent as HTML in the AVMA game and that works.
A gleam of understanding?
Well that is very strange, since obviously it's the set of instructions is followed to interpret your input and display it on this page as on AVMA. For the moment, I guess doing the thing with HTML accents is reliable but a pain as it increases the amount of typing threefold.
Hmmm... what's happening I think is that when you just type the character, your browser is sometimes sending it in an ISO-8959-1 encoding (which my script transforms correctly into the appropriate 7-bit clean HTML encoding) whereas other times it decides to go down a two-byte UTF-8 route. It's not clear why it would choose one rather than another. I shall try and see if I can get this server to ask your browser always to use ISO-8959-1 (which will mean people typing in Mandarin will become unstuck); if not I shall investigate PHP's abilities to look at what you send and see if it can do the transformation properly.
Oh dear
[rab] you're going to an awful lot of trouble for the sake of my accent...
Wow, that's the worst one yet!
[Néa] Oh I don't know - it makes you look exotic! ;o)
Öh kæy
If that hasn't fixed it, I've still got two lines of defence.
Oh, and by the way, I meant 8859-1 above, not 8959. Silly me...
Go rab!!
That seems to have done it!
Go me!!
I got the front page picture story on this week's Motor Trader for one of my less highly-visible clients *grins*
Eccles
[pen]Happy clients can only mean two things, a big bonus and cakes all round.
[Inkers] happy clients are clients who give you even more work to do - yay!! But with a bit of luck, I'll be working on next year's London to Brighton run as well as the Goodwood FOS :o)
On this day in history
I do like Goodwood FOS and free tickets from the Sunday Times but not the rain that drenched us from the finish line back to the paddock, though the black bin liner with makeshift arm holes was better than nothing. Sunburnt and drenched all in one fantastic day.
To my emailbox Google sends me news alerts fo my home town. These days it is usually about the new natural gas terminal and pipeline. But today it sent me a suprise item from the US Navy . A little bit of Milford history I never knew before.
To my emailbox Google sends me news alerts fo my home town. These days it is usually about the new natural gas terminal and pipeline. But today it sent me a suprise item from the US Navy . A little bit of Milford history I never knew before.
[Inkers] How do you get the home town stuff from Google then? I'm fed up of writing to complain to the editor of my home town's online local paper when they write things sooo badly and make funadamental mistakes. I used to work on that paper (under a different editor)and it was brilliant.
Weather report: Colleagues report temperatures ranging from -5 last night in the woods, -3 this morning in Uxbridge and -1 at the traffic lights as I was pulling in to the office. Brilliant sunshine, no wind whatsoever (the flags are hanging straight down).
Weather report: Colleagues report temperatures ranging from -5 last night in the woods, -3 this morning in Uxbridge and -1 at the traffic lights as I was pulling in to the office. Brilliant sunshine, no wind whatsoever (the flags are hanging straight down).
(pen) -5°C in the woods? How did they know? Surely they can't be such a dedicated weather nut as I am. I once went for a walk 'round midnite with a thermometer in Slines Oak Valley, near to me. By torchlight I read it at -15°C, better than the paltry -11°C in my back garden up on the hill. -15°C is bloody cold whatever you're doing. This was 6/7 Feb '91.
[Rosie] Because he left his car there while he and a friend were out mountain biking in the dark (yes, they're both nuts) and the temperature sensor said so when he returned to the car two hours later. When I lived in deepest Wiltshire, the yard thermometer registered an overnight low of -11 once or twice... we were on a country estate kind of in a dip at the bottom of the downs close to Sandy Lane/Nine Elms near Calne. This would be December '97/Jan '98. I'd concur with bloody cold but hell, I love it! ;o)
[pen]If you go from the Google home page to About Google to Google Services & Tools in the Services go to Alerts. I put in Milford Haven - News, to be sent once a day.
This frost in the morning is giving some wonderful clear skies these last few evenings it looks like another big chill tonight.
[Inkspot] They do frost forecasts too?
Jimmy Osmond to win!!
Not sure as Google will be picking up from news or entertainment sites. But if you want to know about Jenny and whether or not she will win I'm A Celebrity Get Me Out Of Here try William Hills or one of the other bookies for the latest odds.
[Inkers] No, I don't want to know. I'm restricting my viewing to BBC2 for the next 6 weeks.
foggy outside
Can nearly 10 million viewers of the GBP be wrong? Missed it last night as I was playing with my new toys, but I'm starting to warm to Carol Thatcher which surely must be wrong.
I love my new computer... except for the Microsoft Home Suite which is awful it is more like the old Lotus Suite with 1-2-3 and WordPro the writer and spreadsheet are very poor relatives to Excel and Word and the package has no Powerpoint.
[Inkspot] In answer to your question, yes. They were wrong in the General Election too.
I'd go further. Almost all of the GBP are consistently wrong about pretty much anything where they're given the opportunity to voice an opinion. The "Great" is meant sarcastically.
"Reality"
How can anyone possibly care which of a bunch of talentless attention-seeking arseholes "wins"? The only possible source of entertainment could be a punch-up, which is no more edifying than hoping for a pile-up in Formula 1 or a truly "great" foul in football. Lee Bowyer, Roy Keane, where are you? Tickle my jaded palate.
*imagines a punch-up at the hustings and starts to get interested in politics again* Oh, maybe that's the way to civil war. Is there no decent fun to be had these days?
Remember me?
No. *teehee*
[Rosie] I care. There may not be as much difference between the parties as of yore, but... oh, wait, you were talking about the TV programme, weren't you?
(Bigsmith) Yes. You're from Bristol ISTR. (Projoy) Point taken. :-)
Fighting it out.
I've often thought - most particularly with respect to Northern Ireland before the GFA, but it could be applied to almost any bitterly fought dispute - that the way to solve the whole thing would be to get all the people who are so violently interested in their cause, on both sides, all together in one big stadium. An effort should be made to ensure that they had roughly equal numbers. Then supply them all with daggers, pick-axes, baseball bats etc. And let them fight it out between themselves where no-one else gets in the way and becomes "collateral damage". This to my mind would solve several problems at once:
a) You'd get a result - possibly a true "dead heat" I suppose where everyone was killed, but that would only happen occasionally.
b) You'd rid the world of some highly unpleasant people without having to bring back capital punishment.
c) It could be televised as Reality T.V. par excellence, with Ant & Dec commenting wryly on the various gruesome deaths being meted out.
d) If grudges persisted then there could be an agreed re-match, say every five years to allow for the next crop of fanatics to wipe each other out.
Now the funny thing is - if this, rather than being in a stadium was played out in a huge open field, you'd pretty much have the gameplan of a mediæval battle - except that we'd be replacing professional soldiers with volunteer amateurs. It's got to come.
a) You'd get a result - possibly a true "dead heat" I suppose where everyone was killed, but that would only happen occasionally.
b) You'd rid the world of some highly unpleasant people without having to bring back capital punishment.
c) It could be televised as Reality T.V. par excellence, with Ant & Dec commenting wryly on the various gruesome deaths being meted out.
d) If grudges persisted then there could be an agreed re-match, say every five years to allow for the next crop of fanatics to wipe each other out.
Now the funny thing is - if this, rather than being in a stadium was played out in a huge open field, you'd pretty much have the gameplan of a mediæval battle - except that we'd be replacing professional soldiers with volunteer amateurs. It's got to come.
(Rosie) Spot on.
Coming in during dinner
This is not the way to gain popularity but I must say that most of the entries in that game are the most laborious clunking nonsense and show nothing like the form and humour of the original ISIHAC game, which I'm beginning to doubt anyone has ever heard.
ISTR?
What's ISTR? I tried a search and came up with the Institute of Safety in Technology and Research, International Symposium on Trends in Radiopharmaceuticals or the International Society for Third Sector Research, none of which sound very ISIHAC.
ISTR
[Knob] Lol, no not ISIHAC - I Seem To Remember - you may also see IIRC which is If I Remember Correctly.
Odd question
Hello. Slightly odd question, but does anyone know of any cordless landline phones where the base station and charger are separate units? I ask cos I think my current phone (a hand-me-down from the folks) is a bit rubbish, but I don't really need to buy two handsets given that I live in a 1bed flat. However, the phone point is in a really silly place and I don't want to trail a cable for miles so that the phone can be left to charge where I can actually get to it.
goodness gracious, MC5 indeed be back. Hello everyone. =)
Cable confusion
[rab] Yes, though I cannot give you brand(s) or model number(s). It does however involve having two (usually small plug pack) power supplies (unless the 'receiver' has one built in) - one for the receiver - that's the one which connects to the landline - and one for the 'phone handset, which is simply a battery charger. I've just had a look at mine, an el-cheapo Panasonic unit, but it does not have the facility though I'm sure that one of my previous units (Uniden?) did, even though I didn't use it.
portachat
[rab] I've got a BT Quartet system which I bought about 4 years ago [though mine is only the 'duet' version because I didn't see the need to buy 3 handsets]. The base station with aerial plugs into phone point and power socket down here in my kitchen/officy place and the portable handset sits on its own charger which is plugged in upstairs in one of the bedrooms. The phone itself often gets lost in one of the bedrooms but appears to keep its charge for days without sitting it back on its power plinth. Very handy - it's even effective from my friend's house which is a few doors down the road.
Duet
[Chalky] It's more of a 'monet' that I'm after: base station + 1 handset + charger separate from the base station (as the base station has to sit in a place where I don't want to put the phone to charge).
clarification
[rab] That's exactly what I have. Base Station + Handset/Charger in a different place. Perhaps I didn't make myself very clear.
further clarifiaction
ie. the Base Station doesn't have a handset with it.
Cool I'll look into that.
Whee!
My contract's just been extended - only by a year thus far, but it's a start.
[rab] Yay!
Whee!
[rab] Congrats :o)
I've just got the go-ahead for a new pilot scheme which could double the size of my department :o)
I've just got the go-ahead for a new pilot scheme which could double the size of my department :o)
aaah ... nice to be needed :-)
neckless
My polo neck became completely detached from my sweater during the course of today. The stitching unravelled and I'm now wearing a crew neck sweater with a rather neat and separate collar. Watch next year's catwalks...
I thought you meant your actual neck had come off for a minute.
(Darren) That's also how I read it just momentarily, and had visions of pen's out-of-body experience. The mind boggled.
site navigation
Is it just my browser, or do the individual game pages no longer have a 'back to main' button?
[Juxta] Try bottom right - a very discreet pale grey on my browser: It should say "pre - up - next".
weather report
It's vary vary dark - hailstorms and lashing rain. Glad I'm at home.
met check
We've had lashing rain and wind this morning and i expect there'll be more, but as I speak, I'm squinting at my PC screen because the sun is hitting it... we've got a window in the maelstrom of meteorological matter right now :o) It's the most light I've seen for about five days.
Someone here once had a go at me for banging on about the weather. Well, thats's Witshire Wisdom for you. :-) Anyway, half an inch of rain measured at Hughes Hall this morning but still a very dry year overall (about 70%) and the grass isn't yet squelchy. Tap your barometers; you won't see them this low very often especially in the south-west.
[Rosie] I'm fickle, me :-)
[Chalky] thanks. =)
and weather!
Also, had our first (and quite possibly last) snow of the year here in Seattle yesterday. I threw a snowball and everything. =D Usually we don't get any until January or February, if at all.
(Juxtapose) Seattle's climate, as far as I can make out, is as close to British as anywhere in the USA, perhaps just a shade warmer. Of course if you're a displaced Brit, as opposed to a Yank, you won't need telling that.
[Rosie] From Boston, originally, never yet hopped the Atlantic (although I would dearly love to). It's nice to know I'd feel right at home over there. =)
Boston, Mass of snow
(Juxtapose) Seattle looks a deal milder than Boston in the winter, which I'd imagine is also quite windy and raw. The worst thing about the British winter is the light (absence of). If it's cloudy as it usually is then it's pretty well dark by 4 pm, and earlier still in the north.
The darkness
Was in Tallinn (Estonia) the weekend before last. It was dark there by 3pm local time.
MWP
What happened to Wild Pants MC?
[Bigsmith] It died and we all moved to other sites. That's the most detail I think we ever really got. Not that there was a coverup or anything (but now I think of it...).
Yes, I did once criticize nights for ending a post with an ellipsis.
The Death of Pants
(Darren) So it was you, was it? :-)
Yes, I pulled Pants down.
(I bet you'd all thought we'd seen the last of the Pants MC puns, eh?)
[Bigsmith] You didn't happen to take a side trip to Kernu Commune, did you? Just wondering...
Dead Pants
[Bigs] If you're really missing the Pants style, you could always play on Orange in Pants mode
introducing a new theme
I've just put my flat up in Lincolnshire on the market, and have made an offer on a bungalow up there for my mum to live in. Is it unethical to charge her rent until she sells her house and puts the cash in to pay for it?! This is all sooo exciting...
Fog-bound here in Herts. Dead busy here in the office, but all good.
Fog-bound here in Herts. Dead busy here in the office, but all good.
Mist and Fog
[penelope] What a strange question. If you are merely acting as a go-between (meaning you are financing the transaction until such time as your mother raises her own funds), then yes. Depending on your relationship with your mother the amount 'charged' could be commercial rent or simply enough to cover your costs in bringing the deal to a closure. Should you be a rich and grateful daughter then you could, at your discretion, ignore your expenditure and not mention the subject.
I suspect that most of England will be under varying degrees of fog today - the football World Cup draw was finalised last night ... joking ... honest ... joking ... truly, truly.
I suspect that most of England will be under varying degrees of fog today - the football World Cup draw was finalised last night ... joking ... honest ... joking ... truly, truly.
How can anyone live in such temperatures? Minus 34°C for heaven's sake! I am aware that some of our North American friends experience such extremes but I cannot, literally cannot, imagine what it must be like. Add to that the nearly three feet of snow they had in the previous twenty four hours, which would hardly warm one's feet, and I'm ever so pleased I'm not living there.
Brass monkeys
(Dujon) The -34°C is rather mild for Jakutsk in Dec/Jan. The mean is -43°C. There is no wind, or snowfall, but the ground is snow-covered from what fell in Oct/Nov, typically about a foot. The only weather is fog, which can last for a week or more with temperatures down to -51°C, the lowest I've seen in 4 yrs daily monitoring. The short summer is like that of central France and it hardly ever rains. I bet they make the most of it. There is an even colder place, Ojmjakon, where the January mean is -50°C with no weather at all, just brief sunshine while the sun crawls shyly above the horizon for a few hours. Young kids are not allowed out of it goes below -45 because the cold air can damage their lungs. If you were so daft as to put the mouthpiece of a brass instrument to your lips in that degree of cold it would blow more than two semitones flat, the least of your worries, I'd say. Perhaps there's a special short Russian trombone.
Cockup, monickerwise
Why has my name come out wrong? Grr!
Semitones of trombone-flatness
Now there's a metric to trump Degrees Stevie, I do believe.
Flat brass instruments?
What's the science behind that then, Rosie? I would have expected extreme cold weather to reduce the size of the instrument, thus shortening the column of air one needs to vibrate. I would expect this effect to sharpen the instrument.
Flat horns
(Phil) The instrument does get a tiny bit shorter (about 2 mm at -50°C) but the overwhelming effect is the reduction in the speed of sound as the temperature goes down. Since there is a standing wave in the instrument the lower speed causes it to take longer to go down and up the instrument, thus lowering the frequency and therefore the pitch. In effect the instrument becomes longer as far as the standing wave sees it. Of course the player's breath warms it up quite a bit, about halfway beteen ambient and body temperature. Even allowing for this (which I didn't in my original posting), the adjustment is about one inch on the tuning slide for 20 degrees and this is just a bit more than is usually available. So if you're playing outside at 0°C all you could do would be to play "short", as they say. Fortunately I don't do marching bands or Sally Army stuff.
So presumably in old, draughty churches without heating it must be impossible to get accurate tuning for the organ for the same reason.
It's pretty difficult to get accurate tuning on any kind of church organ in any case...
True. Accurate was the wrong word... consistent?
(Darren) That's correct. The whole instrument would be flat and it wouldn't sound wrong but any other instrument accompanying it would have to tune down a bit. Rather difficult with a piano. One way round it would be to have a small bleed of a lighter gas into the air the organ uses. You could use hydrogen, helium, neon, methane, ammonia or hydrogen fluoride. Perhaps I should patent this lunacy.
Wouldn't some of those risk producing the Amazing Exploding Organ? That puts me in mind of the Large Hot Pipe Organ which produces sound by exploding a propane/air mix in its pipes.
The LHPO
(Darren) It's blown itself to pieces and taken the website with it. I drew a blank with your link, alas. Helium would be safe enough and it's much cheaper than it used to be. It would be amusing to use sulphur hexafluoride, totally inert and non-toxic. It would lower the pitch by over an octave. I think I'd better shut up now.
Large Hot Pipe Organ (thanks to google), with MP3s (although the site doesn't seem to have the bandwidth to supply them very well).
Cold Brass
My curiosity is partially because I'm playing carols at the village Christmas tree tomorrow evening with the local brass band. Getting 40 or so of us in tune may be interesting if we get a cold evening.
What instrument do you play again, Phil?
Brass monkeys
(Phil) If all the brass is out of tune by the same amount it won't matter. I suspect there will be enough left on the tuning slide to accomodate an average cold evening.
[Darren] I'm currently reviving my interest in playing B-flat cornet, having not really played it for nearly 3 years.
[Rosie] That was what I thought. I might have to get a bit of practice in tonight, and give the old horn a good clean.
[Rosie] That was what I thought. I might have to get a bit of practice in tonight, and give the old horn a good clean.
(Phil) I hope your lip won't have gone. I wouldn't dare go three days without blowing a few raspberrires down my nine-foot tube. Brass is a treadmill; constant practice just to stand still.
I had that dream again last night - the one where my teeth crumble and fall out. :o(
[Rosie] I was jolly chuffed with my performance as 2nd Cornet. Good news was that my part had nothing above more than an octave above Middle C, so my lip survived with no problems. They've now gone and asked me to join them on Sunday morning to play at various points around the village, traditionally accompanied by hip-flasks. Mr Phil has given permissions, so it looks like I might end up signing up to join permanently in the New Year.
s/Mr/Mrs
Top C
(Phil) Shouldn't be too bad. One is expected to get that note on the 'bone (not too often) but the worst thing about it is reading it, being all in bass clef. The rule is that if it's in the stratosphere and on a space it's a C, otherwise it's a B (usually Bb). If it's a D the composer/arranger is not a trombone player. These high notes are far better played by trumpets and cornets anyway. Power to your embouchure. :-)
[Rosie] I used to feel the same when I played violin, and the music dropped off the bottom of the treble stave. I've never been fond of leger lines.
I always get annoyed when a composer writes a bottom B# for a cello. At first sight, this note appears not to be on the instrument.
[rab] It can't happen too often, can it?
The leger domain
(Darren) Although leger lines are part and parcel of trombone playing (especially 1st and 2nd trombones) I'm very glad they don't go into Tenor Clef which to me would make it unreadable instead of merely difficult. Treble Clef is never used because most 'bonists can't read that either unless like me they're also piano players.
They're dropping like flies
Blimey. Betty Tucker in The Archers AND Nana Moon in East Enders both die in one evening.
[Raak] It happens often enough for you to realise that you shouldn't get caught out by it, if that makes any sense. Depends on what key you're in, you see...
Sharp's the word
(rab) There are B#s all over the place in Beethoven's piano sonata Op. 78, which I am currently murdering. There are few in the Moonlight Sonata too.
dreams
I have that one too, Pen. =/ icky icky
How do you get rid of the smell of a stink bomb? Some little f*cker put one under my front door mat while I was out shopping tonight. I'd like to rub it all over his best Nikes.
Season of goodwill
Hope Rosie doesn't mind me quoting this in here [picked up from Limerick Game] ..
"(Chalky) Cheers. The busiest thing I am doing at this time of the year is firing off apologetic letters to all those who sent a Christmas card to my late Mum. Oh, the sins of omission."
[Rosie] How soon one forgets! This is quite a poignant time for you in some respects, 'though I suspect you will end up doing exactly as you wish, according to your personal bodyclock, and having a rip-roaring time. Have you been deluged by kindly invites so you're 'not on your own at Christmas'?
"(Chalky) Cheers. The busiest thing I am doing at this time of the year is firing off apologetic letters to all those who sent a Christmas card to my late Mum. Oh, the sins of omission."
[Rosie] How soon one forgets! This is quite a poignant time for you in some respects, 'though I suspect you will end up doing exactly as you wish, according to your personal bodyclock, and having a rip-roaring time. Have you been deluged by kindly invites so you're 'not on your own at Christmas'?
xmas preps
I've just stirred 2kg of chocolate truffle mix into a glossy, brandy-infused bowlful of indulgence, now it has to cool off to almost-solid in the utility room (luckily it's bloody cold in there) so I can scoop it out with a melon-baller into about 400 truffles. Yum. And I'm still in my pyjamas :o).
I think I'll have my mum and a friend coming for xmas. The friend was coming over from France to stay between christmas and new year anyway, but brought forward his trip because of a funeral, so I've insisted he should come here. [Rosie] The point I'm getting around to is, the prospect of having someone new and 'not family' at christmas is lovely. If someone offers you an invitation, accept it. They may need to invite you as much as you feel like accepting it. Sometimes, when you dilute a family, it gets better.
I think I'll have my mum and a friend coming for xmas. The friend was coming over from France to stay between christmas and new year anyway, but brought forward his trip because of a funeral, so I've insisted he should come here. [Rosie] The point I'm getting around to is, the prospect of having someone new and 'not family' at christmas is lovely. If someone offers you an invitation, accept it. They may need to invite you as much as you feel like accepting it. Sometimes, when you dilute a family, it gets better.
And another thing
An unseasonal December wasp has died in my salsa dancing shoe. What does it mean?
notes and queries
[pen] .. the inside of your salsa shoe is a more effective as a wasp killer than the minus degree temperatures outside? What does this say about your shoe?
Christmas invites
(Chalky) No invites. I think friends know me well enough not to do that though I wouldn't mind going to my various cousins in N London, an agreeable lot, but maybe they too know that I won't mind being on my own. Or perhaps they're having a tremendous row about what to do at Christmas. You never know. :-) (pen) If a Morniverser turned up on the doorstep they'd be welcomed with open arms. It would be a most original way to spend Christmas. Re - dead wasp. It means you've got hot feet. Of course this should be interpreted metaphorically and with the kindest possible intentions. :-)
Early Christmas present
New laptop. Whee! Thanks, HMG.
*hangs over*
Christmas office do last night *groogh*. About 50% of the company stayed at my house last night, and another 12%, not wanting to be left out, appeared on the doorstep for breakfast this morning.
Ooh! Shiny!
[rab] Snap! New laptop appeared on my desk over lunch.
I think I make the mistake of not leaving my desk at lunchtime. If I did, maybe I would get a new laptop too.
Aah! My eyes!
Something Needs to be Done about high-resolution screens. This laptop has a 1900 by 1200 screen 13 inches wide, but of course all the fonts are exactly the same size in pixels as they were when 640 by 480 was the largest screen you could have. The first thing I had to do to make the laptop usable was to set all the options to get text in a readable size and a mouse pointer I can see. There needs to be a switch at some point from specifying font size in pixels to specifying it in millimetres. (Points won't do, having for better or worse been tied to pixels when a pixel was about the same as a point, and having shrunk along with them. There are probably people nowadays who think that a typographical "point" means a point of light on a screen.) The display would inform the computer of its physical size, and all GUI elements would have their sizes specified in physical distances instead of pixels.
[Raak] That is rather silly...
[pen] We had our works do last Tuesday night. A few of us managed to struggle in the next day... I went home after an hour. That was Very Naughty Indeed.
[rab] you didn't plan to work a whole day? V.N.I. indeed. There's no let-up here... besides which, I got a promotion this morning and am now account Manager :oD. Despite that, I still feel hungover, and very, very tired. There's a queue stalling at the printer right now, and it's making me cry, that's how tired and emotional I am!
[pen] It's not that I didn't plan to skive off a whole day, it's kinda what ended up happening... Off school now though, whee!
one more day
I'm working all day tomorrow... bliss! I might take my laundry to dry on the office radiators as I don't have to have the heating on at home and there's no-one else in. By the way, snow is forecast for the south-east in the middle of next week :o)
Wibble
Strangeness.
Sorry 'bout that. Having server problems but not, it appears, with this website. Play on.
plays
Not that there's much to do. I've been training for the past week, so it's taken me till now to sift through my emails! And I think we're all finishing about 1pm, for some drinks. I'd better get food as well, as I haven't had breakfast and the canteen is way too busy for me to be bothered to go up there.
food on tap?
[snorgle] You have a canteen? Wow. Even though I have the best job in the world, we still have to bring our own lunch in or head out in the car at lunch time to buy it. Today I have pasta and tomatoes left over from last night, mircowaved :oP
Christmas cheer
Don't be surprised if this site falls over during the Christmas period. I think we're being hacked.
point sizes
[Raak] But pixels are quite essential if you're working with a projector and have no idea what the actual size might be!
Merry Christmas everyone!
(Uncle K) You're joking. All my friends have disappeared and my family is 250 miles away. All Christmas does is to exacerbate problems. Why don't we just kill it?
bah humbugness
[Rosie] You could always come to the Middle East. Not much of a Christmas here to complain about... :-D
[Projoy] Ok, there would be some issues of detail to work out in moving to a world of mm-measured font sizes (projectors these days are smart enough to just show the same pixels that are on the laptop screen, however many or few there are), but it would be an improvement on the present situation of fonts getting smaller and smaller as the screens get better. With 150 pixels per inch it's painful already, what will it be like at 300? When you print things out, they don't get smaller and smaller as the printer resolution gets better. The issue has already been addressed there, and things come out, for the most part, at constant physical size.
Happy merries all. Who needs friends and family when there's Bach on the radio 24 hours a day?
Starr quality
What's Mrs Ringo doing on the radio, Raak, I'd have thought her more suitable to the visual media. Then again I've not seen her for years so maybe it's for the best.
[rab] Thanks for dragging the site back. Did it kick and scream?
[rab] Thanks for dragging the site back. Did it kick and scream?
(flerdle) Not a bad idea! Must go abroad next year. Anywhere. Britain around Christmas is a tiresome and silly place. (rab) May I endorse Duj's thanks. It's all smoke and mirrors as far as I'm concerned.
Merry (not-location-related-not-family-related-not-anything-other-than-the-spirit-of-goodwill-related) Christmas. =)
Checking in from Mum and Dad's
Wireless networks are great! Pleased to inform that everything seems fine on the server front. Will check with Andy when I next see him. Trust everyone's Christmas was good (mine was) and that the impending calendar-related novelty is as fun.
filling The Gap
Hang the expense, I'll put the central heating on now.
hny
*drops lump of coal*
[Rab] Ouch!
you couldn't make it up
News story from the Grimsby Evening Telegraph last week begins... 'A Man and a chinchilla were rescued by firefighters after a chip pan caught fire.' I'd say that's better than a kitten up a tree.
(pen) A fireman I know says that more than half his work is not involved with actual fires and they are trained in many other forms of rescue.
[Rosie] As a local news reporter, a long, long time ago, I wrote a report of a chip pan fire which was reported at at 7.30am... deep fried Weetabix, anyone? And I also wrote a story during the run-up to xmas of a brussels sprout harvester catching fire in the field. The pickers extinguished it using wet leaves before the arrival of the fire brigade. I headlined the story: "Sprouts Come in From Field Ready-Cooked!" and it made the front page of my local rag :o)
What's a comma or two between friends?
Version 1
Dear Mother,
In law, there is nothing to make me say thank you, but the quality of your gifts compels me at least to write to tell you how I feel. Thank you so much for the presents! I was expecting nothing more than a token yet, again, you have exceeded even your own incredible standards.
It was a shame you had to stay here for such a short time. I thought I might have coped, but it was unbearable seeing you leave. The relief was immense when I heard we might see you again soon. I wanted to end it all by saying goodbye now. I hope I will not have to say it to you again for a long time. If you have the opportunity to spend Christmas elsewhere next year, please do not.
Much love Matthew
Version 2
Dear Mother-in-Law,
There is nothing to make me say thank you, but the quality of your gifts compels me at least to write to tell you how I feel. Thank you? So much for the presents I was expecting. Nothing more than a token, yet again! You have exceeded even your own incredible standards.
It was a shame you had to stay here. For such a short time, I thought I might have coped, but it was unbearable. Seeing you leave, the relief was immense. When I heard we might see you again soon, I wanted to end it all. By saying goodbye now, I hope I will not have to say it to you again for a long time. If you have the opportunity to spend Christmas elsewhere next year, please do.
Not much love
Matthew
[Kim] Your BBC website plagiarising secret is safe with me :o)
Qualidy control
In the light of recent comments over at Orange, previewing of moves is now mandatory in the Limericks game. (And, for this move only, on this game so I can check it works). Are there any others that might benefit from a similar treatment?
Testing Fred
That'll teach me to read rab's posts properly.
The Fine Art of Limericks
I would be delighted to see a return to quality limericks in which the following maxim were applied by all: "If you can't think of a line that scans, rhymes and fits the context, let someone else write that line."
The Limerick is the only form of poetry I really enjoy, so I'm delighted that some effort is going into restoring their former greatness.
The Limerick is the only form of poetry I really enjoy, so I'm delighted that some effort is going into restoring their former greatness.
(Phil) Agree absolutely. "If you cant't say it nicely, don't say it at all. Your turn will come."
And if you can't spell can't you're pissed.
Speling
I managed to misspell a two-letter word once. And I was stone cold sober at the time. It wasn't a complicated two-letter word either. It was 'do'.
rab's QC
I am pleased by the mandatory preview. When I first came across 5 (although I still feel like a neophyte), the limericks being posted were on average outstanding. Being pedantic is no fun, but the general high standards made me try harder.
We probably should have mandatory preview on all games. I was thinking that after putting the unwanted hr into Regurgitated Cheddars.
Hmm.. Not sure about mandatory preview on chat games, or things like AVMA. But cheddars is certainly one that could benefit, as could poetry games more generally. What do people think?
I think the more you use a mandatory preview, the less notice people will take of it. At the moment, limericks is marked out as special, which I think is probably right.
Previews
(Projoy) This is probably true, but at least there's a chance one will notice an error. I'd be in favour of a mandatory preview, and I nearly always preview anyway. It's little bother.
Are you really really REALLY sure?
Well, clearly we should then have mandatory preview on every game, and double preview on limericks. In fact, why stop there? The number of previews in a given game should be a parameter to be set at the beginning, based on the importance of avoiding error.
Should we even allow anything beyond preview at all?
(Darren) Indeed. Should we shut the whole thing down on Health and Safety grounds?
Maybe I should move over to a probabilistic model: you have a single button which, when clicked, may or may not post the move to the server....
[rab] Good idea. Maybe there could also be a low probability of it picking a random move with no relation to the one you actually intended to place, too.
Why not replace the players with bots, who post moves from a list of past greats? Then it would be very entertaining to read, and a lot less trouble to contribute to.
"replace players with bots"?
And will players without posteriors be allowed to stay? *grabs coat and runs*
Or we could extend the preview facility - pressing the preview button would e-mail the suggested move to all other players, who would then vote on whether or not to allow it.
Yes, and vote on whether the player should be permanently banned or not because of their move.
... until eventually, there will be just the one player left who will descend into a preview hell of their own making.
Joking apart (who says we're joking? Ed.) how about a small variation called, say, Second Post - where we have to post TWO lines at a time. So you'd either cop the first two lines, the second two, the last and first, the second and third or the fourth and fifth. Might make for more cohesion. Or lunacy.
Joking apart (who says we're joking? Ed.) how about a small variation called, say, Second Post - where we have to post TWO lines at a time. So you'd either cop the first two lines, the second two, the last and first, the second and third or the fourth and fifth. Might make for more cohesion. Or lunacy.
Two by two
That sounds fun.
2nd post
(Chalky) Lines that rhyme should not be permitted as a combination, as I have pointed to someone out in Another Place. Makes it too easy. But other combinations might work.
The two posts must also not be allowed to share any letters.
[Rosie] Why not include lines that rhyme? Just makes it a different sort of challenge. In any case, you'd have to sometimes as lims are 5 lines long, so play would go 1+2 / 3+4 / 5+1 / 2+3 / 4+5.
[Rosie] Two lines that rhyme? An absolute necessity for some I'd say. That's why I suggested it. After all, aren't we supposed to be upping the quality?
again ... it will give those fly-in-and-fly-out-and-post-any-old-bollocks merchants [yup - that includes me!] a reason to stop and think.
[Chalks] Surely that's "fly-in-and-post-any-old-bollocks-and-fly-out"? ;)
[re: Lims] If you don't want to let one player enter 2 rhyming lines so frequently, why not alternate between 1 line and 2 (ie 1 / 2+3 / 4 / 5+1 / 2 / 3+4 / 5 / 1+2 / 3 / 4+5)? Maybe we could fill the vacant game spot with experiments along these lines - try some different number of line postings, maybe even posting by a number of words at a time, or even just slipping into Limacres if the going gets tough?
[re: Lims] If you don't want to let one player enter 2 rhyming lines so frequently, why not alternate between 1 line and 2 (ie 1 / 2+3 / 4 / 5+1 / 2 / 3+4 / 5 / 1+2 / 3 / 4+5)? Maybe we could fill the vacant game spot with experiments along these lines - try some different number of line postings, maybe even posting by a number of words at a time, or even just slipping into Limacres if the going gets tough?
I have taken the liberty of opening an experimental game. The rubric doesn't say that it has to be two lines, so I guess it could sometimes be one, sometimes maybe even three or above if there seems a good enough reason. Should be interesting to compare the results of this lim game with the others, on the same sort of principle as Blockbusters (are five heads really better than three?!)
double top
Cracking finish to the World Darts Final.... I can't believe I just watched it all, hehehe! I wish I'd had a bet on him at 100/1...
Tannoy
Would whoever just started the Round Robin thing please let us know how it's supposed to proceed.
I didn't do it...
It wasn't me, but it looks like an example of the game formerly known as Film and Crescent Styles
Guilty as charged
Sorry - a long time away has caused me to forget my logic - and manners. Twas I that started the round robin letter. I'll do my best to set the thing rolling but just in case it proves unpopular, please consign it to MC heaven. By the way - I like the new style Rab!
*waves hello to Bob the dog*
[rab] Any chance of a compulsory Preview in the new Multiple Limericks game?
Chancer
[Bob] Hello again.
[Chalky] In the words of Jim Hacker (or it could have been Sir Humphery) your wish is my cooperation.
Chalky] Shouldn't that be two obligatory Previews?
*thanks rab*
Iroule] aaaarghhh!
[rab] Hello again too!
[Chalky] *waves back*.
My 10 year old daughter has obtained a copy of Vic Reeves Big Night Out on DVD. This morning I was presented with a cocktail stick with a tiny bag on the end and a tab bearing the message "What's on the end of the stick, Vic?". What was on the end of the stick? The tip of a carrot! I like it.
[Chalky] *waves back*.
My 10 year old daughter has obtained a copy of Vic Reeves Big Night Out on DVD. This morning I was presented with a cocktail stick with a tiny bag on the end and a tab bearing the message "What's on the end of the stick, Vic?". What was on the end of the stick? The tip of a carrot! I like it.
I had no idea that was out on DVD. Is it the full set?
Darren] The full set of the first two series on Channel 4 - and it is currently on special offer in HMV. If like I could (highlight) copy them for you...
And that was my idea.
And that was my idea.
Bob the dog
(avoiding over capitalising) Hello!
[Bob]
Hidden text
Thanks, but if you did, you wouldn't know where to send them, though, would you?[Darren]
Hidden text
Email me an address. james at nettlesoupdotcodotuk.[Bob, Darren] That's how we prefer to do things round here.
[rab]
Hidden text
neatrab] HTML ignoramus alert! How do you do that?
[rab]Language!
It is true!
[Tuj]
Hidden text
When your stance is submitted, a thousand fairies raise themselves from a deep slumber and hide your secrets away until brushed upon by passers by.[Tuj]
Hidden text
Hello!Good day
Some good news, at long last... My girlfriend, having finally completed her PhD, moved up to Edinburgh to be closer to me (ahhhh) without a job and very worried about a miserable period of unemployment soaking up what little savings one has after being a student for six years. Having traipsed around Edinburgh in order to visit every company working in her area to drop off her CV, one of them called her back and invited her in yesterday for a "bit of a chat". After an hour-long interview (hmmm, nice "chat") they offered her a permanent job on the spot. She wasn't even asked to leave the room for the panel to discuss it. Now that's what I call a result.
*is very happy for rab and rabfriend*
new jobbers
Wow... good news rab. Talking of new jobbers, we're about to interview the 4th candidate for the open position here at Cock&Bull PR. Out of the three we've interviewed so far, I'd offer it to two of them. We'll see what today's is like.
And I got a new red car today *grins*
And I got a new red car today *grins*
[rab] Congratulations! (Through enviously gritted teeth...)
I'm still resolutely fixed-term, unfortunately. However since "rabfriend" has today received a counter-offer from a rival firm, I think I can look forward to a future as a kept man...
pfffft
[rab] tut tut! It means learning to keep house, y'know...
little buglet
[rab] This may or may not be relevant, but I've noticed that a few of the games, when you load their full form, tend to slip out of their table after a certain number of moves. This is under IE, of course. e.g. The Furcation Game.
[Projoy] Do you mean it runs over the right-hand side?
round robin
Just to let all know - I've started posting some ideas re the Rugby Pilg on the Orange pilg page. For anyone new to all this - the Rugby Pilg is (becoming) an annual event where as many players of these bizzare games as possible congregate at a superb venue at a specially negotiated low price to play silly games live. This year May 27 - all welcome!
[rab] No. The table simply stops after a certain amount of time, and all the remaining text appears underneath it as regular text. I haven't actually looked at the source for more detail than that yet.
There doesn't appear to be anything in the HTML source that does it, AFAICS.
[Projoy] It's possible there's a mismatched quote. But I suspect it's one of IE's idiosyncrasies.
tag, not quote.
It doesn't appear to affect all games in the same way, if that helps. Come to that, it doesn't affect my enjoyment of the affected games, if that helps.
Boris is standing for Rector of Edinburgh Uni. Should I vote for him?
[rab] Don't do it - he won't appreciate that it was an ironic gesture.
Oh, vote Boris, he's harmless. And in case it hadn't been realised I'm back, for the moment. How is everyone?
[nights] Hello again!
[rab] Do you think Boris will bother to turn up when needed?
[rab] Do you think Boris will bother to turn up when needed?
I'd go for John Pilger myself.
*waves from Cambridge*
I've got a whole two-bedroomed house to myself. It's beautifully quiet. And either some rich college, or maybe the taxpayer, is paying for the heating. Woo.
toasty boasty
Good for you, rab. I dont have my central heating on any more, s'too 'xpensive.
Smash Hits is closing down, boo-hoo!
Smash Hits is closing down, boo-hoo!
[Smash Hits] I thought it already had. Shows I'm not a 'youth' anymore.
Rah hey
It's been a long time since I participatoried in a good game of MC....or any game of MC for that matter. I recognise some of the names from years gone by (when I was called 'Pave'). Love, death, marriage and pregnancy (not me - the wife) have kept me from the game, but I'm older, wiser and back...apart from the wiser bit.
That name rings a bell...
[Pave] How goes the equestrian centre?
fugging admin
I'm still at work at 6.20pm on a Friday night. I have a backlog of 80 press releases to write (I'm mid-campaign) and I've spent the whole day doing bloody admin. *gnashes teeth* Saves me spending money, I suppose, which is just as well, as someone has nicked it all out of my bank account anyway.
(Mine the Gap was a daft name anyway!)
[Projoy] Still a dream! The fiancée is now the wife (with mini-pave on the way. Still, when I win the Euro-millions.....
Euro Millions? Does that mean NZ didn't happen either?
Old Zealand
Ah, forget I asked that. Just checked the chat in Another Place.
Dreams
The world likes nothing better than the taste of chewed up dreams! You never fail if you never give up. The world loves a fighter. And all that tosh that makes you feel better when you aren't where you want to be yet....!
Hello!
Ee, lad, 'aven't seen you since the days of t' YAMCS. Welcome back to the Morniverse :)
Tuj!!! I think I owe you an apology...Were we in a championship game when I vanished? Was it YAMCS that had the play window to the bottom right, and games/players to the right?
There was some sort of tournament going on when YAMCS met its maker, though I can't recall if I was playing you at the time... The main thing I remember about the YAMCS layout was the big list of games down the left hand side. And it was a big list - 30 game slots!?
Yup, I recall once having a name on every game. Proud day. I need to get out more don't I....
If you do then I do by extension ;)
Tuj
We'll have to go head to head in the Lockisseum...although I can see you are still a formidable player, with new tricks no doubt.
Something like that ;) Mind you, my Lockisseum match with Darren hasn't exactly been all grace and flair!
Play softly and carry a railway sleeper?
Jeeeepers Tuj
That challenge game with Darren is pushing all new boundaries! I was lost by move yellow!
You know, spending the day with 19 13-year-olds from Ontario has made me somewhat tired. Odd that.
Not as tired as had it been 13 19-year-olds.
At least then they would have made more sense. The whole experience left me feeling rather old.
If it's any consolation, that feeling just gets worse and worse the older you get. :)
Youth is wasted on the young.
...and wisdom is wasted on the old.
And wasps are waisted in the middle. (Sorry!)
Ah well - I'm enjoying the Lockisseum. I don't think it was around when I was last into MC (before the break). Tough game though.
Ah well - I'm enjoying the Lockisseum. I don't think it was around when I was last into MC (before the break). Tough game though.
[Projoy] Oh, thanks, that makes me feel better. At least they're going home today.
Server unavailable
Hello. My network provider seems to have lost their border router. While they have more than one route to the internet this component is common to them. No ETA on when they'll get it fixed.
Okay. Back as of a half hour ago. Pardon me for disturbing you.
Update
[Dan] Thanks for the update. And here's one of my own. I got engaged last night. It was a very pleasant, if emotional, experience. I can highly recommend it.
Wooo-hooooooooo!!!
[rab and rab-darling] Congratulations! Excellent news. :o)
[rab] Congratulatoryay!
[rab] Well done. Who to?
[rab] Good show!!!
rab] Congratulations!
[rab] W000T! Congratulations to the both of you! I'm gonna have to get my suit drycleaned now...
Chiming in
[rab] Congrats!
Thanks for the kind words. I shall pass them on to my lovely darling as she doesn't read any of the MC sites herself.
Rings 'n Things
[rab] It has been said that "I am." is the shortest possible sentence; "I do." can be the longest.
No, joking, my friend. All the very best to both of you.
No, joking, my friend. All the very best to both of you.
"I got engaged" ?
You have much to learn - it's "We got engaged" now that you're engaged :-) Seriously, congrats !
[rab] Well done that man. Happy, contented and in Edinburgh. Life has little better to offer than that combination.
[rab] Congratulations!
[rab] Nice one ! xx
Yeah! Fab, rab!
rab has a girlfriend!
Congratulations!!
[Néa] Now, now. Don't confuse me, I've spent the whole weekend trying to work out the correct number of 'e's and accent placement in the word fiancée...
[rab] The word is "finance".
[Darren] financé surely?
Congrats
[Rab] Slightly slow off the mark, but all the very best to you and the future Mrs Rab.
[penelope] Now you mention it, since rab's finance is female, it should be financée.
If he's lucky, perhaps she is a financiée
[rab] Congrots.
As a French speaker, might I step in? As the word comes from French, I'm assuming that it follows French rules. Therefore Rab has a fiancée, whereas Rab himself is the fiancé, as French takes an extra 'e' to signify femininity. Of course, you might already know this, in which case my apologies. I'll keep my teaching to my job.
*gives nights a little three-legged wooden stool so the jokes no longer waft over his head*
[penelope] snnrk!!!:-)
Assume a spherical robin
The robin is limping a bit.
Rabiancé(e)
[rab] Congrats indeed. I actually think that getting engaged caused me a more dramatic change of lifestyle then either getting married or having children. Now whether that was a change for the better ....
[Rosie] Seems my outgoing won't connect with your incoming. It's taken a few days for me to find out .. I'll try sending from another address :-)
(Chalky) OK. Should I have another address for you?
Clunking Limericks
(Projoy) You're right. I misread Marc's 4th line due to mild inebriation. Can't post the fifth line because I did the first, hence this.
[Raak] After two weeks of non movement the robin continues to limp, my killer blow was not enough.
[Rosie] I have resent from a similar-looking email address [replace hotmaildotcom with gmaildotcom] :-)
emails
(Chalky) Got it. :-) Have stored new address.
[rab] Congratulations. =)
Squeak
Now, what with all the nerves leading up to the big moment it completely slipped my mind that that it would entail planning a wedding. I bought a book at the weekend to help me out, but the first thing I noticed is that most of the wedding literature is aimed pretty much exclusively at the bride. And it also seems there's a whole industry devoted to fleecing couples (or their parents) at the start of their life together. Particularly depressing so far have been some of the menus I've seen on the web, typically wanting to charge you 25quid a head for the most lacklustre three-course meal you've ever seen. To put this into perspective, our engagement meal was at a cosy local restaurant with a reasonably high standard of cuisine and imaginative menu, and with a nice bottle of wine and after-dinner port came to not much more than the above figure. Nice to see the economies of scale being passed on, there. I'm sure with enough perserverence we'll be able to find either a venue with a decent caterer, or one that will let us provide our own, but I can already see that's going to be a lot of work.
Limpin robin
It seems the win detection's a bit screwed. I thought I'd fixed it after Tuj had some trouble with it, but it seems still not to be working. I'll look into it tonight.
wedding
[rab] Given that this meal is traditionally called the "Wedding Breakfast", you could take it literally and get in a job lot of Coco Pops. Sophistication and economy all in one go.
oooh...wedding breaqkfast joke!!!
Sorry in advance...Three friends were all getting married on the same day, and they all decided to use the same hotel and church (staggered, of course). They were all 'innocent' in the way of love, and knew that on their wedding night they would all finally 'do-ooo-ooo it' (As Rik Mayal would say), but as the newly weds would all be having breakfast in the hotel with the families the next day, they knew it was going to be difficult to talk to each other about the experience.
"I know" Says one of them "We'll secretly tell each other over breakfast - by means of a code. Ordering a slice of toast means we did it!!!" They all agree.
Next morning at the table, the first guy orders his breakfast from the waitress...
"I'll have a glass of orange, some cereal and three slices of toast please" he says, winking to his friends.
"I'll have 5 slices of toast" says his smug friend. The last chap orders his...
I'll have a glass of orange, some grapefruite, and 7 slices of toast please..." he says....and then as the waitress walks away, he winks to his friends and calls out to the waitress again...
"Please can you make 3 of those Brown bread..."
"I know" Says one of them "We'll secretly tell each other over breakfast - by means of a code. Ordering a slice of toast means we did it!!!" They all agree.
Next morning at the table, the first guy orders his breakfast from the waitress...
"I'll have a glass of orange, some cereal and three slices of toast please" he says, winking to his friends.
"I'll have 5 slices of toast" says his smug friend. The last chap orders his...
I'll have a glass of orange, some grapefruite, and 7 slices of toast please..." he says....and then as the waitress walks away, he winks to his friends and calls out to the waitress again...
"Please can you make 3 of those Brown bread..."
Up the bum
(Pave) Shurely jokes like that are not still current? It has a nostalgic resonance for anyone over 60 (which I am) because I knew friends who were virgin bridegrooms, (at least I'd have put money on it). Seems incredible these days.
well....
[Rosie] I currently live in Portsmouth (not really by choice), and am in the process of moving. To give you an idea of what the place is like: Virgin = less than teen, Grandma = teen and over. My wife and I joke that we are getting kicked out of town because we waited until we were married before we started a family - and before that we weren't related (and she's way over 15...)...and to top it off...neither of us have ever claimed benefits for our 15 kids...which we don't have either...
In short...I guess not :-). Due date May 2nd for number one...dead excited ;-)
In short...I guess not :-). Due date May 2nd for number one...dead excited ;-)
well....
[Rosie] I currently live in Portsmouth (not really by choice), and am in the process of moving. To give you an idea of what the place is like: Virgin = less than teen, Grandma = teen and over. My wife and I joke that we are getting kicked out of town because we waited until we were married before we started a family - and before that we weren't related (and she's way over 15...)...and to top it off...neither of us have ever claimed benefits for our 15 kids...which we don't have either...
In short...I guess not :-). Due date May 2nd for number one...dead excited ;-)
In short...I guess not :-). Due date May 2nd for number one...dead excited ;-)
oops
Works PC glitch...sorry.
Pompey
[Pave] How far are you going? Just interested as (when not at university) I'm a Hampshire-dweller. Hope the moving process is improving for you, all the best.
15 kids etc....
Dublin woman goes into the social to claim child benfit for her 15 kids. When asked their names she replies "Micko". When pressed for more name she replies "Theyre all called Micko". Social officer then asks "So when you want them to go to bed, what do you say?" "Micko, get to yuz feckin' beds". Officer continues "And to call them all for dinner?" The reply comes "Micko, get yuz in here fer yuz dinner."
The officer thinks a moment, "But, if you just want one of them, what do you do?" Without hesitating, she replies "Janey Mack! That's easy - I just uses the surname"
The officer thinks a moment, "But, if you just want one of them, what do you do?" Without hesitating, she replies "Janey Mack! That's easy - I just uses the surname"
Pompey again
(Pave) Yurss, I've heard that about Portsmouth over a long period and wondered if it were true. Maybe it is.
Tuj - Farnborough area still Hants...You?
What you have heard of Portsmouth, it is true. I can't hold my head up as I walk the streets for fear of what I may tread in. One day...on a side street directly off of the main drag, I had the misfortune to see a woman squating behind a car to relieve herself (lots of open shops and pubs....lots of pubs...many, many pubs ...and all crap, but still she chose a car). I felt safer walking around a rough area of Glasgow (Pollockshaw) at night on my own, than I do during the day in Portsmouth. It is only in existence to give the saying "arse hole end of the world" an actual grid reference...
[Tuj] À propos of current-ish thread in OrangeMC, how old are you?
Nights
Posted it up over there ;)
Mr Fixit
Right. I think I've finally fixed the win-detection bug.
*sigh* I'm bored. And hungry. And still have 2 hours to go before I get home and cook a piece of ham, which promises to be ultra-delicious as it's proper Lincolnshire ham. *sigh*
*Suddenly Hungry*
Hunger
Me three. Eating Dutch tonight, off to the Heineken Holland House which is the Winter Olympic base of one of the country teams, I forget which, but it'll all be orange. Tomorrow night off to the Sponsor Village, got a curling lesson booked.
Well, that was delicious.
Do tell!!! (Only had Pizza ;-( )
*BURP*
Repeating
(pen) You burped a full two hours after your ham. What will happen in another twenty-four God only knows. Keep us posted. :-)
Dutch Kwisine
Well what a gourmet delight that was (not!). I do like the way the Dutch get all exuberant when sporting occasions are involved. A big tent with an ice rink in the middle, bars and and hot dog stands round the outside, and the Winter Olympics AND Ajax-Inter on TV screens everywhere and a live band. Well, the Dutch have medals to celebrate. I wonder where the GB house is...
[IS,P] Look under the doormat. It's great fun being in Canada at the moment, my friends have decided I'm an honourary Canadian for the duration, "as Britian seem to be, well, shit" at the Winter Olympics business.
[Pen] Don't patronise me, I can do that all by myself...
[Pen] Don't patronise me, I can do that all by myself...
[nights] Of course you can. You're a clever boy, aren't you? ;-)
[nights] I am sooo tempted to say: "Yes, dear."
[nights] I suppose you'll want congratulating for that narrow victory over the Finns in the curling final, then?
curling
Tried it last night in the Sponsor Village. Rather fun, actually.
curling?
One slipper, one trainer, a yardbrush and a doorstop? What's that all about then?
(nights) Canada? Where's that, then?
curling
[pen] Have a butchers at the hyperlink game over in Outer Space.
oi oi nights!!!
Hello nights - are you aware of the appeal lodged in your Lock match? Might still be able to fend them off if you're quick...
ice rocks
[IS,P!] Which one is you? ;o)
cakegeek
I have just baked the most blinding carrot-and-banana cake for my own pleasure. It was supposed to be banana and walnut, but I didn't have any walnuts and I was short of a banana so I substituted a carrot. I thought about taking it into work tomorrow, but I'm going to keep it for myself. I love Sunday morning baking.
[curling] Of course, certainly, go Newfoundland- uhm, Canada go.
[lock] Agh, forgotten all about that. I'll be straight over. Thanks for the notice.
[lock] Agh, forgotten all about that. I'll be straight over. Thanks for the notice.
[nights] Darn it.
now hear this... cross post, apols
Dear I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue Mailing List Member,
We should be in a position to email you details of the next three I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue recordings within the next few weeks. We are planning recordings in the North of England, the Midlands and the West Country.
However, there is still good news for those in the South East and the Greater London area, as we bring advance notice of two recordings of the hit Radio 4 series 'Hamish & Dougal : You'll Have Had Your Tea' which are to take place in London this March.
Hamish and Dougal (aka Barry Cryer and Graeme Garden) are the two Scottish gentlemen made internationally quite well known from their appearances in the 'Sound Charades' round on ISIHAC. They are accompanied in the series by Mrs Naughtie, a cleaning lady cum housekeeper played by Alison Steadman, a local laird played by Jeremy Hardy, and a 4 piece ceilidh band. The musical director is Graeme's son John, otherwise known as the keyboard player in the internationally renowned pop combo 'Scissor Sisters'. This is Hamish & Dougal's third Radio 4 series.
As usual you are advised to book soon for these recordings as they are extremely popular.
The first recording will take place at 7.30pm (doors open 7pm) on Monday 6th March at The Mermaid Conference & Events Centre (formerly The Mermaid Theatre), Puddle Dock, Blackfriars, London EC4V 3DB.
Tickets cost £6.50 each and are being sold by the Cochrane Theatre box office on 020 7269 1606 (which is open from 10am - 6pm, Monday to Friday). There is no booking fee. Where possible tickets will be sent to the purchaser, but they can be collected on the night if preferred.
The second recording will take place at 7.30pm (doors open 7pm) on Sunday 26th March at The Duchess Theatre, Catherine Street (off The Aldwych), London WC2B 5LA. Tickets cost £6.50 each and are obtainable by calling the box office on 0870 890 1103. (The theatre box office is run by a ticketing agency, and there will be will a handling charge of 60p on these ticket sales. The advantage is that they are open 24 hours a day).
We should be in a position to email you details of the next three I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue recordings within the next few weeks. We are planning recordings in the North of England, the Midlands and the West Country.
However, there is still good news for those in the South East and the Greater London area, as we bring advance notice of two recordings of the hit Radio 4 series 'Hamish & Dougal : You'll Have Had Your Tea' which are to take place in London this March.
Hamish and Dougal (aka Barry Cryer and Graeme Garden) are the two Scottish gentlemen made internationally quite well known from their appearances in the 'Sound Charades' round on ISIHAC. They are accompanied in the series by Mrs Naughtie, a cleaning lady cum housekeeper played by Alison Steadman, a local laird played by Jeremy Hardy, and a 4 piece ceilidh band. The musical director is Graeme's son John, otherwise known as the keyboard player in the internationally renowned pop combo 'Scissor Sisters'. This is Hamish & Dougal's third Radio 4 series.
As usual you are advised to book soon for these recordings as they are extremely popular.
The first recording will take place at 7.30pm (doors open 7pm) on Monday 6th March at The Mermaid Conference & Events Centre (formerly The Mermaid Theatre), Puddle Dock, Blackfriars, London EC4V 3DB.
Tickets cost £6.50 each and are being sold by the Cochrane Theatre box office on 020 7269 1606 (which is open from 10am - 6pm, Monday to Friday). There is no booking fee. Where possible tickets will be sent to the purchaser, but they can be collected on the night if preferred.
The second recording will take place at 7.30pm (doors open 7pm) on Sunday 26th March at The Duchess Theatre, Catherine Street (off The Aldwych), London WC2B 5LA. Tickets cost £6.50 each and are obtainable by calling the box office on 0870 890 1103. (The theatre box office is run by a ticketing agency, and there will be will a handling charge of 60p on these ticket sales. The advantage is that they are open 24 hours a day).
Thanks Pen. Can you keep us posted re the midlands recordings please?
[Btd] Sure, I just post up the emails when I get them in :o)
feeding the troops
Banana & Carrot bread gone down well in the office. Troops all onside. Banana Dictatorship underway.
cake
Banana bread and carrot cake are two of the best things ever. Together, they will indeed conquer the planet.
bucket shop - today's left overs
Dear I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue Mailing List Member
This is to advise you that there are still some tickets left for our recording of Hamish & Dougal starring Barry Cryer and Graeme Garden on the evening of Monday 6th March at the Mermaid Theatre in London. They will be advertised to the general public from Friday so you'll need to book tomorrow if you don't wish to miss out.
This was in my inbox this morning - if you want tickets, hurry!
This is to advise you that there are still some tickets left for our recording of Hamish & Dougal starring Barry Cryer and Graeme Garden on the evening of Monday 6th March at the Mermaid Theatre in London. They will be advertised to the general public from Friday so you'll need to book tomorrow if you don't wish to miss out.
This was in my inbox this morning - if you want tickets, hurry!
Full House!
Completed on the bungalow this morning. Going to spill champagne over the doorstep tonight :o)
Bungalow
Congrats, pen!
So that's why there will be no more Dick and Dom on a Saturday morning.
[Botherer] cheers :o)
[Inkspot] Can't afford to have all that creamy muckmuck cleaned off the carpets every weekend!! sorry...
[Inkspot] Can't afford to have all that creamy muckmuck cleaned off the carpets every weekend!! sorry...
<whisper>bogeys</whisper>
Bogeys? I thought pen was talking about something much worse.
[Darren] You've obviously never watched... recommended. BBC1 Saturday mornings, while stocks last.
Paws
Hello. Is anyone else finding these page taking a couple of seconds longer than normal to display?
[penelope] Worse than watched - I know one of the script editors. Yes, I know what you're thinking: they have scripts?!
wheeew Matron!
Fearne Cotton...Creamy muck muck....and this is kids TV...
[rab] Mine's quite zippy today actually.
[as for the rest of you ...] I haven't the foggiest what you're all on about.
[as for the rest of you ...] I haven't the foggiest what you're all on about.
[Chalky] Mine too. Maybe my previous visits happened to synchronise with one of Andy's ultra-paranoid (i.e., frequent) site backups.
Dick and Dom?
The name suggests an animated cartoon whose principal characters are a *cough* certain organ and a PVC-clad woman with a whip.
Wouldn't that be Dick and Domme? I think it suggests a slightly different relationship as is. :)
We're now well adrift of the weekend's discussion of Dick & Dom, so I shall start another topic. I'm having home-made spicy chickpea and cauliflower soup for lunch today. What's everyone else having?
Lunch
[pen] Probably nothing, but I might have something later.
An everything bagel, 2 kabanos, a large spring onion, half a head of chicory, a Russet apple, two fruit Shrewsbury biscuits, a bottle of water, and a couple of Sudoku.
...and a stick of celery.
Had mine at 11.30: All day breakfast sandwich, raspberries and a Cadbury's Twirl. Doing the healthy option today.
yum
Cottage pie and carrots - but I shan't be eating a main meal tonight because I hope to 'Walk The Line'.
I had a slice of flan, a cheese sandwich and a packet of Monster Munch.
...and the hunt continues for a ceremonial and celebratory venue that both happen to be free on the same day next spring. I'm amazed anyone ever manages to get married...
stress-free nuptuals
[rab] hey! Why not hire yourselves a ... Wedding Planner! [for the equivalent of two years'orth of joint salaries].
... should that be 'joint salary'?
ach whatever - I was only being facetious :-)
Seriously though, the wanting to do it and the asking if you can do it and the agreeing that you're going to do it and the telling evryone that you're going to do it - that's the easy part.
Seriously though, the wanting to do it and the asking if you can do it and the agreeing that you're going to do it and the telling evryone that you're going to do it - that's the easy part.
[rab] why not run off and do it? Or slip off and do it... or just do it now? My mum and dad did it, and returned to my home town to tell their parents after the fact. Both sets were fine about it. One of my sisters did it too, got married in the US as none of us could be there. I was never one for running though. Just have a big party when you come back, with none of the weighty responsibility that comes from having the ceremony and the party on the same day. I think I'm a proponent of avoiding unecessary hassles wherever they're avoidable, not buying or paying for stuff that you don't actually NEED to have a good time, and wary of pandering to everyone else's expectations with regard to weddings, whilst forgetting my own and those of my significant other (if ever there is one). I'd quite like to have a new frock to do it in though.
Lunch
Well I had risotto ai frutti di mare, and not very appetising either. I should point out that it was canteen risotto, but the other 'dishes' looked worse. [Raak] Those Sudoku sound tasty!
[Raak] I thought you'd written a program to do them for you, so that you didn'nt need to succumb to the temptation of actually doing the blasted things.
[SM] I did, but it didn't help. :-(
[Raak] Is that why you've started eating them instead?
Oooh!
Ooh no, you shouldn't eat a sudoku! If they're not properly prepared they could be contaminated with deadly toxins! Call me a coward, but I'd never risk trying a puzzle that could poison me if the person setting it made the tiniest mistake.
Sudoku
It's not really poisonous as such - more of a number.
*dons 2006-style F1 goggles*
Champs and Chumps
Bahrain tomorrow with a scarlet front row, with Alonso on the second row. It will be a good test and an exciting afternoon.
Which is more than can be said of the apalling display put on by the Steve Johnson renegades at the Millenium Stadium. Basic handling errors, Wales were lucky to come away with a draw (make that very, very lucky).
Yay! for Renault and Alonso. It was a good race which helped pass the time while doing the ironing.
I missed the GP - was out - and I still have all the ironing to do :o(
Watching things while ironing
[Inks] And can someone please get rid of Brian Moore from the BBC rugby commentating team. He adds nothing to the understanding of what's going on (other than occasionally in scrums) and is so blinkered in his pro-Englishness it's ridiculous. He is the rugby equivalent of Fred Trueman as a commentator. Also, to continue the cricketing thought, the current English rugby team makes me think of the cricketing expression 'flat-track bully' - they only look good against sides they can dominate physically.
[INJ]For a 6N before next years World Cup things are looking dire for the northern hemisphere, the teams of South Africa, Austrailia and New Zealand maintain a high level year on year the rest have occasional years of brilliance. Wales have shot their winning coach to appeal to "player power", they now enjoy the training sessions!!!! England have less of a hill to climb than Wales for the next game.
forward thinking
(INJ) Forward dominance is how England won the world cup, it is how Australia, and to a larger extent the All Blacks play their game. The major difference is, they also have devastating backs and centres. Rugby is played off a forward-dominated platform so to look good against teams you can dominate physically is a pre-requisite of winning rugby. England, at the moment, still have the forward power, but problems abound in the half-backs and particularly at centre. My humble opinion also is that Corry is not the right man as captain. The handling errors on Saturday were abysmal and New Zealand, in particular, will rip them apart. I would also wager that Ireland will beat England next week
sold! (not)
Just had a silly offer on my flat from a guy who has not yet sold his place. Refused it. He's the wrong end of a chain. Awaiting a better offer.
going...
And another offer, only marginally less silly, 20 minutes later. I've given them the lowest acceptable price, and with the condition of exchange of contracts within 4 weeks. Fingers crossed.
*crossing her fingers*
Gone!
Woo-hoo!! Have got the price I (eventually) wanted and the quick exchange :o) Deep joy. Now I can buy myself a pair of salsa shoes.
congrats!
[Phil] Thanks :o)
Hear ye!!!
The Lockisseum Seems a little quiet. We need a few more faces in there I feel. One on one (and the soon to be tried Doubles) is a very different style of play. Sorry if I am acting all unofficial spokesperson like, but I had to 'Big Up' the Lock as a great MC site.
Spring has sprung today here in sunny Rickmansworth. 10 degrees C. That means the grass will start growing - I need to get TWO lawnmowers fixed...
[pen] Ah, Spring. Like Summer, but without the essential quality of warmth. You get what look from indoors like beautiful bright sunny days, then step outside and the slightest puff of wind tells you the air is still coming in from northern Siberia and you have months yet of bundling up like the Michelin man.
[Raak] Don't be so grumpy! Whilst I'll give you that 'Ne'er cast a clout till May be out' (and that's May blossom not the onset of June) holds true, there's nothing to stop you enjoying the feeling of spring. You have to admit it gives your demeanour a filip, doesn't it? And I've noticed my thermals dry much quicker on the washing line in spring :o)
[Raak] Also, it's the traditional time to start reproducing.
[Darren] Well, you get home chilled to the bone and the only thing to do is burrow under a pile of duvets, preferably with a second body to warm each other.
More than "preferably", presumably? Unless there's something I've yet to learn about the progenitive effects of burrowing under duvets.
Vernality
The good thing about Spring is the light. Shedloads of half-micron wavelength photons. The air is slow to respond, but will eventually. (pen) Interesting, not to say revealing, observation. The air has been very dry in the last week or so but not every spring does that happen.
Bad Hair Days
[Rosie] Don't I just know it's been particularly dry - I've had hair problems for most of February and all through March. It goes dead straight when the air's dry - I need a little drizzle.
fortihacker
email:ca920105@gmail.com I just like spam! I'm collocting junk email...
Oooh!!!!!
fortihacker, send me pizza menus, double glazing letters, load applications, free newspapers....I love collecting that rubbish as well. Now make like a Nubbock so we can carry on.
These hackers are running out of ideas for getting our email addresses I reckon....
These hackers are running out of ideas for getting our email addresses I reckon....
load?
Loan...sorry, I have a cold.
topless
I see Wembley Stadium has a new 'cabriolet' top-down look this morning.
hospital visiting
I've visited Salisbury District Hospital 3 times in 20 hours. The first time to install mother for her knee replacement op that was scheduled for this morning, then again to take some books in because the op had been 'postponed' for a day, and then AGAIN to uninstall her because the surgeon is now too ill to do the op. Now she's on 'standby'. Ironic phrasing, given the state of her knee.
What a pain
How frustrating, Chalks, for you and your mother, to endure the anticipation (which probably isn't too pleasant) all over again.
*inserts daily piece of banter*
Orange tea
Is anyone else having problem accessing Orange, I've been having error messages since just before midnight.
*Goes off to kitchen to put the kettle on for helpful cup of tea for Dunx*
*Goes off to kitchen to put the kettle on for helpful cup of tea for Dunx*
Orange fleeeeee
I'm lost!!! Dunx is down...no Lock,no Orange!!! I'm going warm turkey (can't go cold...still have MCiOS and Mc5)....
oh bliey
I've just received notification that the flat I'm in the prcess of selling is now 'listed'... hehehe. Rather them than me, I'm pleased to be out of all the hassle that it entails. I'm not opposed to listing as such - architectural heritage is important - but I need something a bit more uncomplicated right now.
that would be 'oh blimey'
Orange
[Inkspot] Thank you for confirming the timing of the downage.
Orange is back now, though.
Very QUIET in here. You can almost hear Radio 3.
The clock in here is about 5 minutes fast. The sundial needs realigning.
Let's see
Should be fixed now.
hush up
Radio 3's getting good...
heavy breathing
The cold is getting better - I'm taking drugs for it.
I thought women were never the slightest bit affected by colds :)
correction
[rab] I have Man Flu. Lord knows how I caught that, haven't sniffed a man in months.
The essay I'm trying to write
AAAARRGGGHHHHHH!!!!
The essay I'm trying to write
I've just realised is pure shite...
I've just realised is pure shite...
Its utter frivolity
Its sheer lack of quality . . .
Its sheer lack of quality . . .
I think I'll just set it alight.
*sighs*
oh oh owww!!
As an MC player, I hang my head in shame to say up until recently I had hardly ever heard ISIHAC. To make up for it (because the couple of shows that I had caught were jolly good) I bought myself the anniversary edition. I'm shocked to find that it is one year older then me, but we share the same birthday....and that Dame Judi Dench wasn't the only one that had to pull the car over for fear of laughing into a collision!!! I feel like a man who has been blind for the last 33 years, only to find that I was just wearing a hat one size too big!!!
(Pave) A noble admission. Now, who else is going to "come out"?
my sides hurt!!!!
the reason ISIHAC is a half our show, is because anything over that hurts ones sides....I love the anniversary edition quote by Humph...."Nixon became the first US President to visit China in an attempt to repair a Presidential rift. Chairman Mao was thrilled at this, as he was getting fed up using the escerator..."
[pen] I must have a touch of Bird Flu then.
[Raak] I shudder to think how you got that ;o)
http://ravenblack1973.blogspot.com
My cat has just given me a great birthday present....the little bugger. Rather than write it all again, I have posted it on my baby blog. Enjoy.....I hope every one else had a great weekend too!!!
No cake.....no candles......no secret boxes......*sob*
Whilst I'm on missed birthdays: Happy 34th to ISIHAC.
[Pave] Oh! Was it your birthday then? :-)
[Chalky] yeah...but to be honest, I only mentioned it because the chat was very slow. Birthdays aren't a good thing for me.
I'M ON THE TRAIN
Cor. Finally got this wireless internet marlarky to work on the GNER line.
woo-hoo! We have faster broadband in the office. Faster than what, I don't know.
The usual expression is 'faster than a speeding bullet'
[IS,P!] We're not allowed to bring guns into the office, so I can't say.
From under the stairs
[rab]With the last true move in The Furcation Game being back in July 2004 is it worth gently putting it to rest and moving on?
Looking out the window this morning through the drizzle the garden is starting to pick up and look colourful again after the bleak winter. A fine show of daffodils and the Forsythia and spring Jasmin are a real delight. Last weekend over the Bank Holiday even managed to cut the grass.
But the highlight after coming back from Broad Haven was the start of the new series of Dr Who, with New Earth setting the scene and arc for the series. It was so good I forgot to drink my cup of tea brought in by Mrs Inks.
Looking out the window this morning through the drizzle the garden is starting to pick up and look colourful again after the bleak winter. A fine show of daffodils and the Forsythia and spring Jasmin are a real delight. Last weekend over the Bank Holiday even managed to cut the grass.
But the highlight after coming back from Broad Haven was the start of the new series of Dr Who, with New Earth setting the scene and arc for the series. It was so good I forgot to drink my cup of tea brought in by Mrs Inks.
(Inkspot) Smug bastard. :-) I've got three daffs out of a potential two dozen or so, though the Forsythia has come out. It's the cool dry weather (official) that's made everything late. Life's Grim Up North Surrey.
DOWNTIME WARNING
There may be some downtime from about 7pm tonight while we reinstall the OS. Hopefully we'll be back in fine fettle by midnight. Apols for inconv etc.
Nearly working
It\'s nearly working again. Woo.
Yay!
[Inkspot] Yes, maybe it is due for retirement. Oh, and could someone please finish the Dutch game.
De gaam is eended.
Weather
It's reached 15°C for the first time this year at Maison Rosie, the second latest date for this since I started records in 1983. The average date is 22 March but is very variable, standard deviation 24 days. Earliest was 27 Jan 2003 and the latest 25 Apr 1986. Are we going to have a hot summer? HTFSIK.
Backslashes
Don't know where they came from; I didn't put them there, or here.
[Rosei] WTF is HTFSIK?
*gets it*
Better late than never
Unparliamentary Acronyms
(pen) I knew you would. :-) The backslashes seem to accompany apostrophes and increase by one each time you preview. Test: (lots of backslashes removed, rab) 6 previews.
Well, thats (sic) that theory down the pan.
Going Dutch
The game has nine lives, it seems.
Right - I'll investigate the slashing.
It's now "fixed" I believe. Let me know if you notice anything else that's a bit odd.
Do you want me to put the Dutch game out of its misery, or shall I just let you guess how many 'o's after the 'M' in Mornington are required. (It's not very many).
ooooooooooooooo
(rab) How many, FFS? I've tried up to twelve. Thanks for fixing the apostrophe problem, BTW.
[Rosie] It was three. You had a typo with "Crescent."
typooography
(Darren) I have a very red face. It's the monicker effect.
Three.
butterfiles in the Amazon
A story game has been created from the ashes of Dutch.
[Rosie] Today was a perfect day for the garden it was warm enough here in North Wilts to have lunch outside (south facing garden). If the sun shines tomorrow the curtains will be drawn to cut the glare on the tv while the Grand Prix is on.
[Rosie] Today was a perfect day for the garden it was warm enough here in North Wilts to have lunch outside (south facing garden). If the sun shines tomorrow the curtains will be drawn to cut the glare on the tv while the Grand Prix is on.
(Inkspot) Not (gasp) Swindon? Nice here too, max 17.4°C.
raise the drawbidge
Near to Swindon, just south of J16 of the M4. Little old ladies would lie in front of bulldozers than see Wootton Bassett become part of Swindon, and the town of Swindon is never mentioned in polite company.
HTFSIK?
I haven't got it yet :(
Swindon, Profanity
(Inkspot) Swindon must have something going for it even though they don't build steam locos there anymore because my niece's finacé commutes there every day from Chepstow while she herself works in Cardiff. Mad! (Phil) You disappoint me, man. Why? How the fuck should I know?
Not that one should really moan about it, but the clock in here is over an hour fast. At least, I hope it is.
Timezone
The server thought we were in Berlin. I've now told it we're in London. (Although, as it happens, I'm in Croatia so I hadn't noticed the clock-skew).
Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to have fixed the problem. I'll look at this more closely when I return.
[Rosie] Ah, of course. I had the first two words as "Hope the" and couldn't get my head past that.
Ruggerpilg
[Rosie] Having lost your email address, you might want to look into the Pilgrim game... Likewise Simons, Botherer.
Pilgrimage
(Projoy) Just Been There, Done That. My email address is at http://www.geocities.com/pantsmcprofiles/profiles.html
Regarding Chaos on the Line
[CdM] You just had to insert economics, didn't you. *falling around giggling*
Tert
Tick tock
The clock seems to have corrected itself now - I think. I'm confused by being in a different timezone.
update
For those who have an interest...
News on RugbyPilgIII
News on RugbyPilgIII
[Néa, CdM] Seeing that post reminded me of a thought I had in Hong Kong, which is that it appears to be rapidly approaching a phenomenon closely related to the 'Shoe Event Horizon'.
Currently perfectly good 20 storey buildings are being torn down to make space for 40 storey ones. This demolition increases the pressure on commercial space, thus increasing the value of the space in those buildings. Before long, before a building is complete the most advantageous thing to do economically will be to pull it down again and start buiding an even taller one. This process then becomes a self-reinforcing spiral.
Currently perfectly good 20 storey buildings are being torn down to make space for 40 storey ones. This demolition increases the pressure on commercial space, thus increasing the value of the space in those buildings. Before long, before a building is complete the most advantageous thing to do economically will be to pull it down again and start buiding an even taller one. This process then becomes a self-reinforcing spiral.
Orange pipped
Hope it is back up and running soon.
When the Beeb announced the other day that it was going to dipense with Grandstand on Saturdays, part of me jumped with joy at the ent of this leviathan. The coverage of sport on the BBC has gone downhill, it only covers what it feels comfortable with. Take snooker wall to wall at the moment completley at odds with the low viewing figures it achieves. How long does it give to Match of the Day to cover all the days football, they may only have the rights to the Premiership but why not cover the Chamionship as well. And as for the rugby... just don't get me started. Just to say it could be greatly improved, it is final whistle quick chat then stop for the footie results. Motor racing is on the website but nothing on the screen, there is a whole raft of racing outside F1. The propsal is to have specific programmes, on BBC1 to make way for other output mmmmmmmmm? More day time tv as if Mon-Fri was not enough!!
Personally, I like the snooker.
(Inkspot) These days if you want sport you pay for it, and a good deal more than the licence fee.
[Darren] Me too, which is rather a bad thing when one should be cramming all the maths one can into one's head, not wasting time watching things of that ilk...
(Tuj) While watching the snooker, work out in your head the angle of departure of the object ball as a function of the direction of the cue ball and the distance between them in ball radii. Differentiate it with respect to the cue-ball direction. Appreciate the skill of snooker players.
[Rosie] My forays as a very amateurish snooker player suggest to me there's more to be gained from experience and practice than maths skills! I'm told darts is good for one's counting skills also, though I've never found that much of a spectator sport...
angles
Croquet ruined my snooker. Not that either of them are/were much good, but there was a definite detrimental effect.
'Croquet Ruined My Snooker'. Now there's a title for some memoirs!
*snigger*
Apologies
Sorry for thr outburst in Limericks. Am I the only one who is offended by Marc's 'style' of play?
Stylistic boobs
(pen) No you are not. I tried a little irony but it zoomed over his head. Others have dropped hints recently but obviously to no effect.
Embonpoint and all that
(pen) I've had another go.
[pen & Rosie] Am totally with you on this one. I don't know if Marc even bothers to read this game [he certainly never contributes to it - or any other game that I've noted] but if you do [Marc] can we just request, because you seem to contribute so regularly, that you expand your mind a little to matters other than tits and sexist innuendo? Call me old-fashioned, but my humorous streak is more likely to be satisfied when a wider subject matter is brought to bear. Selfish? Maybe. But I have a hunch that others may agree. Thanks :-)
[Chalky] You can count on my support on that matter.
I've already indicated support. Although I disagree that he come across as a dirty old man; I think he comes across as an eleven-year old.
Marc certainly comes across as deeply immature. Personally, if I were rab, I'd consider blocking him because he just seems to annoy people, and appears to revel in doing so.
Well, frankly, I can't be arsed -- which is not to say I don't think the complaint is valid, just that blocking ain't really my style.
... now why doesn't that surprise me?
[Chalky] Is that some kind of complaint?
I assumed it was a comment on your somewhat cavalier approach to the Great Game.
Chalky can speak for herself, but my best guess is that it was a compliment. :-)
FWIW, I think that blocking should only be carried out in extreme circumstances, which are currently not met. Dan and Dunx can also speak for themselves, but I think their general view, suceessfully implemented on their servers, is that we should sort these things out among ourselves if at all possible.
FWIW, I think that blocking should only be carried out in extreme circumstances, which are currently not met. Dan and Dunx can also speak for themselves, but I think their general view, suceessfully implemented on their servers, is that we should sort these things out among ourselves if at all possible.
However, I do suggest that we try to get rab banned on account of his somewhat cavalier approach to the Great Game.
If that last post doesn't get CdM banned, I don't know what will!
*is horribly inspired to start a banning game and becomes convinced that StDogmael is making voodoo spells at her expense*
[Blocking] The penny drops...
Sorry if you've found the server a bit up-and-downy the last couple of days. It should stay up longer now.
*reminds herself not to make ambiguous comments when she isn't going to be around for 12 hours*
[rabsweetums] What CdM said. Barring someone from the site should IMO only occur when threatening/stalking/pronographic activities take place on a regular basis. Marc is just a silly twit sometimes, harmless really; and anyway, WHO would pen and I and others have the opportunity to have a pop at now and then if he wasn't in the firing line ...? :-)
I was going to say , but I remembered, they know where I live. I vote against banning, and for bearing in mind other people's sensibilities.
Hidden text
[Chalky] Glad to see you and pen aren't getting your pretty little heads all worked up over this - now why don't you do some needlework or baking to relax.My worthless 2 pence worth
Blocking's nasty - I'd go with Chalky's assessment. Also, CdM may be right above in his 11-year-old not dirty-old-man surmising - I certainly posted some horrible tosh when I debuted as a 14-y-o (albeit I empathise on bad scansion not lustful obsessions).
(Tuj) Use words like debuted and you really will be banned. No, you won't. :-) It reminds me of the sports commentator's medalled, i.e. won a medal. The Now ShowwwWWW had some fun with this last Friday. That's sport - it hollows out the head. It would be a ludicrous over-reaction to ban Marc. He will get the hang of this place eventually.
Well, at any rate, at least you can see why I still nurse this ambition to set up my own MC server.
*thwacks Phil around the head with her trusty rolling-pin*
*heats biscuit cutter to red-hot heat and leaves interesting corrugated circular imprints all over Phil's thighs*
Barring people
If anyone's going to be barred around here it should be William Shakespeare. ©2001 Peter Kay
(ISP) You're fired. Ed. ©Private Eye passim.
[Chalky & penelope] Thank you for not killing me outright.
Yeah, there's no case for a ban, unfortunately. :) I don't think he's gotten the hang of the place in the two years or so that he's been around, so I'm not sure I hold out a lot of hope that he eventually will, but that's not enough reason to exclude. [Rosie] What's wrong with debuted? What would you say?
[Tuj] You may have been 14 when you first posted, but you were amusing and you took on board people's feedback and adjusted your behaviour to fit in better with how the place worked, rather than assuming (as some others do) that you could do just as you wished, and that any criticism should be rejected out of hand. (Also your scansion wasn't really especially bad when you first showed up, although it certainly did improve).
[Projoy] Try debutted instead.
butt me no butts
Hm. "debutted" produces 10,600 hits on Google, with "debuted" providing 11,500,000...
[Projoy] I wasn't being serious.
(Projoy) There are some nouns that really ought not to be er, verbed. I'd say début is one of them. I'd have phrased it differently or said first started. (Darren) I like "debutted". It sounds like an American whose arse has fallen off.
[Darren] No, but I guess some other people use "debutted" in all seriousness. I guess it's because the 't' is silent, so it feels it needs a second, voiced 't' to enable the "ed" ending to click on. Same problem, of course, with past-tensing any noun or verb that ends on a vowel sound, such as "diminuendo'd" (but for some reason not "précised")
I don't like the word "verbing." I think we should call it "Rosieing" from now on.
I think debuted is singularly infelicitous, mostly because of the pronunciation issue – is it debutted, daybood, debood, daybutted? Made his début’ seems the best way out to me.
Day-byood seems the most obvious pron. to me.
These days, I have lost the "y" in daybyoo, and now pronounce it dayboo, as do the French who don't do that thing with the letter u. I'm sure someone has had a go at me for my resistance to verbing in the past (poss. CdM?) but I still resist it where possible.
Heavens to Murgatroyd, I've been Darrenned! (Phil) Nobody does a proper French 'u' in this country - eg déja vous.
[Rosie] Re: "u" - I quite agree. Re: "Darrenned" - On this occasion I prefer "Darrened" as the double "n" tends to shift stress towards the second syllable. I think Gyles Brandreth should be informed.
Hang on, on re-reading that my logic would make "traveled" more correct than "travelled", which, as every cricket-playing gentleman of Blighty knows, is simply wrong. Therefore I retract my double "n".
Doubling
(Phil) The single consonant is the American way but to my eyes it looks wrong, because it makes the previous vowel long, eg tra-veald, la-beald, unra-vealed, spaymd?, Dar-reaned etc.. How many customers have you bar(r)ed? Don't answer that. :-)
I prefer baning them :-)
Debuing (?)
Alas, whenever I go beyond a couple of sentences I always burst out in flowery essay words... Although in this case it must be from too much sport watching. Meanwhile...
[Projoy] Thank you, I'm very touched by your comments on the time I debuted (daybyooed, for my South UK Estuary tongue). I cringed many a time when I look back in the Yorkives at how I was. However, my scansion I regard as my strong point, and as far as limericks and the like go I more frequently stop myself on account of not enough good material.
[Projoy] Thank you, I'm very touched by your comments on the time I debuted (daybyooed, for my South UK Estuary tongue). I cringed many a time when I look back in the Yorkives at how I was. However, my scansion I regard as my strong point, and as far as limericks and the like go I more frequently stop myself on account of not enough good material.
YAAAAAAAAAAAAAY
And.....
Marc....jeeeeeez! I remember early Tuj, and I remember what I thought of early Tuj...and I am glad Tuj is still here! Marc does seem to, how can I say this..."Lack the light touch required by the game..."
On that bombshell
Anyone for a new game?
After you
[Tuj]New game ... an old fav like When Hillocks Collide but I do like a bit of something different but have no idea what that may be.
[Inkspot] I didn't mean a whole new concept necessarily. I was just pointing out there's been a free game slot sitting there for a bit and it would be nice to create a popular and interesting game - but is anyone interested?
In the meanst...
Good old 11-MC can give us some time to think.
Speak of the Devil!
Hello Tuj! Yes, I am glad you are still round! I'd be up for a new game. I don't know why I remember you....maybe when I saw TUJ I thought of Taj as in Taj Mahal...the blues singer. I was listening to a lot of his stuff back then, so your moniker would have really stuck. Good times :) What was the MC group that had the games down the left, the game in play in the top right and the move/comment box in the bottom right? (I think I asked before..?)
When I was a lad...
[Pave] I'm guessing you're referring to Huxley's fairly short-lived YAMCS (Yet Another MC Server) - which is where I first remember making your MC acquaintance. I'm sure I'd been at !York for a year or two by then however.
Eeeeeee!
YAMSC hmmmm....I recall seeing you at !York, and this other server, so yes, I guess you are correct there - I also recall there was a one on one challenge tourney going on - and I think it was me and you as I vanished.... Who or what was a Huxley, and what happened?
Huxley was a player. Sort of like Stevie but... Hm. No, exactly like Stevie, now I come to think of it.
Old MC sites
Whatever happened to Wildpants MC? It seems that it upped and went, but this site looks very similar, with some very familiar (oo-er) names.
Whilst we are on this subject....
Whilst we are on about "What ever happened to...?" I'd like to know "what ever happened to retro conversations that started with "Whatever happened to white dog poop?""
Whatever happened to all the other people on this site?
Haha. Sorry.
[Pave] Erm... I think I must have missed those...
[Pave] Erm... I think I must have missed those...
:)
Whatever happened to white dog shit
"The only white dog shit you get these days, Leeds United." I forget which comic it was...
[Bigsmith] Pants MC died and MWP (for whatever reason) decided not to bring it back up again, so we all migrated to the other MC sites.
Forgive me for being rude, but wtf is the point of finishing a game if you then just start another one that's exactly the same.
I'm starting to think that we've by now seen pretty much all permutations and combinations, and without sufficient influx of new blood there's a vast oversupply in the mc server market. With its being the newest, I propose we close this site.
Hmmmmm
Much that I would loathe to see it go, you do have a valid point. It is the slowest moving of the MC servers....Is there anything we can do to make it that bit different?
[rab] I did attempt to start something else, but it didn't work, so I sulked. I'm sure we can come up with more excitement to fuel the flow through the server... Kick something splendid and popular in place of the Furcation Game perhaps? However if it is proving to be a burden to you to keep it open, then sadly it would have to go.
[rab]There is obviously an issue with the fact that this server hasn't got many games which aren't found on others. I'm surethat, given time, it could build up it's own distinctive set for which it would be THE place to go (after all, AVMA is one of the fastest-moving games in the Morniverse). But, it's up to you, of course, though maybe we could have a deliberate effort to try a few games not found elsewhere first.
AVMA is one of the things that came to mind as something worth keeping. I'd be quite happy to kill off all the rest (yes, that includes the limericks) with space for about 4 others.
[rab] Sounds drastic but perhaps could lead to a great maelstrom of creativity and ideas and new games! Or calamity of course...
AVMA is one of the greatest games on any of the servers, as it is a genuine competition, and the human instinct is to try to win. Multi-line limericks are nice too. I have preferences for games (e.g. good news/bad news) that others find tiresome, and vice versa. Hence I think a variety of servers, each with a little tweak of individuality is good for the MC world. If I had a bit more about me, I might set up my own, but it would have to be Domino/Notes-driven, and I don't have a copy of Notes designer any more :-(
[Rab] well, personally, I'm gutted that you should even suggest such a thing - but that's your prerogative ....
[Phil] Seconded on the good news/bad news :P... perhaps if others don't want to play that game, for instance, we could try a rhyming version? I'm just thinking part in terms of new combinations of games, and part in terms of some of the game mashing-together encountered in the Furcation Game (qv).
The Morniverse seems to be going through a mid life crisis of its own with I think players dropping out and moving on and with the pool of active players reduced. When visiting the three servers it is noticeable how few play on all three, but concentrate on one either Orange or MCiOS. To me MC5 has been about the originality of the games, it is a challenge and I can safely put up my hand and say that I have created some real distasters, but that's life; kill the game and move on the next one may take off. I have said my piece about Furcation Game before and will say no more.
It is whether MC5 is to be a clone of MCiOS or have its own original flavour, I would go for the latter.
It is whether MC5 is to be a clone of MCiOS or have its own original flavour, I would go for the latter.
Orange is a useful isolation ward for certain types whose extensive and incomprehensible scribblings make me lose the will to live. For that reason, let's keep all three going.
Bacchal scene
When this place started I felt it had a somewhat distinctive feel, what with a few original games and quite a few people (immigrants from Pants, I think) who didn't contribute so much to MCiOS and Orange. As you're no doubt bored with me saying by now, I favour a fast turnover, and would much rather have a dozen try-outs that didn't go very far (don't regard them as disasters, Inkspot) on the offchance that you get the occasional gem (Woo-doo-doo-doo doo-doo-doo etc Hitler springs to mind) instead of yet another tired 'The Return of Boardmans Combined Bad-Tempered Cresso' hybrids. My feeling about classics (such as Good News/Bad News) is fine, but they're generally best - at least started - in unadulterated form, with variants just springing up during the game on an ad-hoc basis. I would have hoped that after 3-and-a-half years a distinctive set of games would have built up.
I've banished the Furcation Game to a Better Place; and think that they may be some scope at some point for a Lite version in which mash-ups of classic genres are played for a few rounds and continuously mutated, morphed, juxtaposed and hybridised but without the need to write a whole Shakespearian play cum Wagnerian opera every move. This could also be the proper place for hybrids of the type described above, rather than taking up a game slot to itself.
I would also propose killing the Long Game (on the grounds that, no, there doesn't "have to be one of these", does there?); the ordinary Limericks (but keep the multilines; or merge the two into a freeform jazz version); possibly the cheddars (except I like the concept of a game you can contribute really easily to).
I should say that this place takes almost zero maintenance effort from me nowadays, keeping the machine its hosted on up and running and un-hacked-into notwithstanding, so it's no effort to keep it up and running. But I would like to feel more minded to contribute.
All that said, I suppose I can't really complain about lack of originality given that the site itself is basically a knock-off of Dan's and Dunx's respective endeavors in the first place. I could add some features (like unplayed games automatically expiring, or maybe a death vote system) to encourage a faster turnover but I'm not sure how they would work.
*phew*
[rab] agree with most of what you said. This site has always been my first port of call, particularly because it does have games that are easy to contribute to without venturing into essay-land. Also, it seems to have been the place for guessing games, AVMA being a fine example, Who-Doo-Doo etc another - and who could forget the Cryptic Crossword game? I really enjoyed puzzling over those and learning from others' expertise.
Like Inks, I have noticed a drifting away of certain key and prolific players from say a year or so ago, but that's just human nature I s'pose. Also, I think this server took a bit of a bashing when the Orange 'create as many games as you can festival' occurred and a few of the MC5 favourites found their way over there and remained [OMC now has 21 games!]
Like Inks, I have noticed a drifting away of certain key and prolific players from say a year or so ago, but that's just human nature I s'pose. Also, I think this server took a bit of a bashing when the Orange 'create as many games as you can festival' occurred and a few of the MC5 favourites found their way over there and remained [OMC now has 21 games!]
Blooooooood
We need exciting games to attract new lood! BLOOOOOD yesssss....my precious! Bwahahahaha...erm... I'm not getting any younger, and some of this text speak confusses me - is there an idea of a game in there? I don't know!!!! BWahhahahaha blood etc ad lib and fade.
The Long Game
[rab] Very good points, and thanks for sharing your input - you may claim not to have to do much maintenance but we're still here and able to play thanks to you, so we really should be doing some more things you want to ;)
Personally I think you make a good point about long games - they seem to have passed out of fashion. Perhaps we could replace the long game with a series of "short games" - games of MC people aren't afraid to win after a week and could be encouraged to by experimenting with some lesser-known rulesets.
Personally I think you make a good point about long games - they seem to have passed out of fashion. Perhaps we could replace the long game with a series of "short games" - games of MC people aren't afraid to win after a week and could be encouraged to by experimenting with some lesser-known rulesets.
I wouldn't mind a cryptic game again, though Blob (its finest practitioner) isn't seen around so much these days
[All] Feel empowered: don't be afraid to go forth and cull. I've set the Long Game as winnable with the standard move for a bit; will reverse if people want to keep it.
[rab] Well, I got in first... Am I the first person to win a long game?
I have murdered the regular limericks game.
We demand a MONTY PYTHON game. Nee.
Googling my name
Tuj means "immediately" in Esperanto.
This page is the 69th brought up by Google (UK) if you search for "Tuj".
This page is the 69th brought up by Google (UK) if you search for "Tuj".
Can we please have a 100% ban on all Monty Python comments? The show finished decades ago and comedy has moved on. It's one of the few things that really boils my blood these days.
Hmmm
How about a Monty Python game that skirts around the sketches....but never quite mentions Monty Python....
Admin, spare this site
I think three servers is the right number. More is too many; two is too few. For myself, the orkplace firewall blocks both here and the Dunxatorium, but, curiously, lets Dan's place through. That certainly further distorts my own posting habits. I do visit here more assiduously than I did the WildPants server, and I was sorry to see that go.
Monty
[Pave]Several game slots have been created for player to start games, get in there and see what happens. MP is not for me but may excite others. Whether it fails or succeeds keep coming back with fresh ideas and grab that empty slot.
Seething
(Darren) Shall we also ban The Goon Show? Round the Horne? Rowan and Martin's Laugh-In? Not Only But Also? MPFS may not be your cup of tea but that's no reason to ban it. Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!
The only thing I'd like to ban is mention of bans. Unless that's some horrible contradiction that's going to cause the internet to implode.
Meanwhile, if there's anyone reading this who's been watching and not playing, and wishes to join in, now would be an excellent time to do so. A few new players would give the place a breath of fresh air methinks.
*walks in out of the rain with soaking wet hair, puts car keys, phone, stethescope and bleep down on the table and sits on the chair*. Aah, that's better.
[Lib] Here, have a mug of hot chocolate.
Sanguinary ebullition
I'm not seething (see above) but was wondering why Darren was. Here's something lighter. During tonight's big football match David 'Spooner' Pleat uttered these words: THE SIGHT IS IN END. It'll be in next week's Colemanballs section of Private Eye with the name of any one of a thousand people who spotted it, possibly mine.
*falls in water*
It is done...Bwaaaaahahahahahaahhcoff coff hack HURGH!!!
Holds up red card
They think its all over - and it is.
Hmmm
At least let it start!!!
Herehereherehere! What's going on here?
Personally I liked "Hampster" which is overdue a resurrection in a different form...
After all, it's seven years since 'One slice of Strawberry Tart'
Hamster
Actually that game died without filling a single page, so I take it all back. Screw the Hamster idea. Ermm. I mean...
is it wrong
To giggle at a mention of "sword" and "pork" in a game? If so, I am a wrong un! ...and I dreamt...
[Pave] I still haven't got over Wymo's move in that game...
{Tuj} I know!!! Fancy slipping like that! :)
Oh, don't go!
Just a quick note to say that although I don't post as much as I used to (due to work commitments, and more), I would be very sad to see you close down!
spring cleaning at mc5
I came for the limericks, but stayed for the Clerihews.
MC5 has a nice comfy feel for me. I like that it's not intimidatingly big. I don't much care for mcios or Orange. I think kill votes or timers would be a nice addition. If the games rotated more swiftly, us newcomers wouldn't feel as shy about trying to create them. *shy shy*
MC5 has a nice comfy feel for me. I like that it's not intimidatingly big. I don't much care for mcios or Orange. I think kill votes or timers would be a nice addition. If the games rotated more swiftly, us newcomers wouldn't feel as shy about trying to create them. *shy shy*
Proffer
As befits my profession, I shall have to do some statistical analysis on the corpus available to me to see if it's possible to devise a heuristic that identifies the 'running out of steam' point.
(rab) You could get a heuristic off an old steam engine but you'll need a big spanner.
sighing
I would post more. But I'm just not amusing enough. *sigh*
"I Woke Up From The Strangest DreamJust something that came to me.
Whence all but I had fled
When I woke up I found out why:
I was already dead."
I woke up from the strangest dream
[Raak] Very nice!
The game in fact shares its title with a song by the band "Liam Frost and the Slowdown Family", who I saw earlier this year supporting the wonderful Elbow. It's not my favourite of their songs, but it inspired the recursive dream game.
The game in fact shares its title with a song by the band "Liam Frost and the Slowdown Family", who I saw earlier this year supporting the wonderful Elbow. It's not my favourite of their songs, but it inspired the recursive dream game.
And on that note
The next game to be started shall be Game 100 here at MC5! Any ideas how we should mark such an occasion?
[Tuj] Sorry, that's what happens when I browse but not visit the Chat Game.
< goes and sits on the norty step >
No worries
[Inkspot] Took me a while to figure out what you meant :P and there was I thinking I was being premature suggesting that!
Flat chested
It looks like we've just bought a flat. The much-vaunted Scottish system is enormously frustrating at the early stages, as each property is essentially sold via blind auction. But now we're in a good position because we can pull out if the survey reveals anything unpleasant, or we can reduce our offer, or whatever, but the seller can't sell to anyone else, or decide they're not selling after all. Whee!
[rab] How exactly does that system work from the seller's point of view, then? Is there something that could stop you from dropping your offer down to £10, for instance?
Yes, they could simply refuse.
...and then the seller has to weigh up the relative pros and cons of accepting a lower offer than the original one, or putting the place back on the market. In our case, I don't anticipate any problems with the survey - but it's nice to know that we can pull out if the surveyor says the place is about to fall down, but they can't suddenly decide they're not selling to us after all.
Missive Trellis
Actually, I now understand we haven't quite reached that stage yet. The seller now has to agree in writing, so until we get that it could all be orrf.
Restricted attendance
Just a (necessarily) brief note to inform that I have broken a couple of bones in my left hand, so I might find myself not posting very much for a few days. I'm always surprised at how typing one-handed reduces one's speed by so much more than 50%, and how sore a broken bone can be.
Eeek
Bad luck Phil. Won't ask how you got it, and hope it heals soon.
[Phil] You do seem to be 'going throught the wars' as we used to say. Poor you. So it's spaghetti for the next fortnight...
time!
Blimey o'trousers! I would never have thought that having a baby would take up quite as much time as it does! I mean yes - they need 24 hour care, but who would have thought that it actually ment 24 hours being awake to look after them!!! He's been a gem up until a couple of days ago when he decided to go on 1 hour gaps between feeds!!! They grow up so fast! Anyway - it's why I have been scarce recently!
All that stuff and everything
Been out of the morniverse for a while due to work commitments (setting up my own business) and generally being hectic, but getting back into it. Delighted to see MC5 overhauled with some fresh games. Yippee!
Oooff
Well, that was more complicated than anticipated. Looks like the surveyor actually did some surveying (contrary to horror stories I've heard elsewhere) and picked up on some things that warranted a closer look, and so we had to send someone up to clamber around on the roof (with most buildings here being three or four storeys, it's more of a skill than it sounds). Turns out it's nothing too serious, although we will need to do a bit of work when moving in. As it happens, the scope for downward offering was limited by virtue of the next offer down being quite close to ours - so we ran the risk of the seller saying "Well, in that case we'll offer it to the next bidder"; turns out that things aren't quite as simplistic as you might first imagine.
I do wonder how much loaves of bread would cost if they were sold by blind auction, though.
They'd go mouldy by the time the auction was completed.
(Darren) Hard, too. A week-old baguette is an effective lightweight version of a baseball bat.
Between teeth
Incidentally, I should probably mention that the place is on a Crescent in Morningside. But not, sadly, Morningside Crescent: you have to go to Aberdeen to find one of those.
Lack Lustre
The current games on mc5 seem a bit slow moving. Perhaps its time for a couple of new ones. Any ideas?
New game
Something easy to join in with please...
But no; no specific ideas. I am part of the problem, not part of the solution.
Incidentally, against all my expectations I just found out I passed all bar one module of the second year of my degree... I just feel like telling people that, 'cos I really wasn't expecting to.
But no; no specific ideas. I am part of the problem, not part of the solution.
Incidentally, against all my expectations I just found out I passed all bar one module of the second year of my degree... I just feel like telling people that, 'cos I really wasn't expecting to.
end games
Yay, well done Knobbly
New games it would be nice to kill off another of the current games but have tried and failed. I do hope Pave has not set the killer move of Around the Python Laugh-in to something cryptic and unwinnable.
New games it would be nice to kill off another of the current games but have tried and failed. I do hope Pave has not set the killer move of Around the Python Laugh-in to something cryptic and unwinnable.
It would appear he did. Shall I set it to the normal, or just quietly shunt it below the line. Slow movement here I think is a side effect of Dunx's festival of crescent.
Not very happy vocabulary
I was trying to send it on its way as I had an idea for a guesssing game but would have a finite life. I can understand the need for a quick game for players to dip into when they are browsing and this game would not in all likelihod not be one of those.
The proposed game is a crossword where players can be either compiler or solver or even both. A 15x15 grid with 1A completed or blank with just the clue, solve the clue give the right answer, next player sets the next clue (cryptic or straightforward). After that the rules become "elusive". Does the crossword have to be symetrical? does it get filled in like a scrabble board with one clue leading off the next till all the blanks are symetrical and agreed upon? If the grid is blank how do we know whether it is 5A or 7A?
The would start something like this
| A | B | C | D | E | F | G | H | I. | J | K | L | M | N | O | |
| 1 | 1C | E | L | L | |||||||||||
| 2 | |||||||||||||||
| 3 | |||||||||||||||
| 4 | |||||||||||||||
| 5 | |||||||||||||||
| 6 | |||||||||||||||
| 7 | |||||||||||||||
| 8 | |||||||||||||||
| 9 | |||||||||||||||
| 10 | |||||||||||||||
| 12 | |||||||||||||||
| 13 | |||||||||||||||
| 14 | |||||||||||||||
| 15 |
Would anyone be interested in this type of game and is it worth rab shunting off Around the Python Laugh-in to make room?
[Inkspot] Having to reproduce that grid each time kills the game instantly. It would be an utter pain in the arse to edit that each time a word was added (and when does it get updated? after every guess? each new word?), and the chance of screwing it up would be very high. (Note how many mistakes have been made just counting backwards in the Celerity CDs game! And note how hard it is to get certain participants to realise they've been getting the rules wrong.)
If you want a cryptic crossword clue guessing game, I'd strongly recommend doing it as was done before, with people submitting and guessing clues as they felt like it, with no grid.
I think, incidentally, activity on all three sites was waning even before the Orange festival, although that has made it more obvious. We're just not getting the same number of participants these days.
Apologies, incidentally, if there's an acerbic note in all that, I'm just generally pissed off about a lot of stuff today.
I agree with your points about the problems of updating and my greatest fear of solutions not fitting previuos moves and having to be redone. But I needed feedback like that so as not to make a complete prat of myself by just setting up the game with all of it's woolley thinking. There are other types of cryptic games already played on this server, but I wanted one that had a finite life span.
There is still an empty game slot.
There is still an empty game slot.
Ooh. That's interesting. A new game has appeared in the wrong place...
Right, that's sorted; and the end-game trigger for the Python game has been set to the usual.
[Darren] Someone needs to do a good, solid corpus-based statistical study on activity rates in the Morniverse. I'm sure it would make a good PhD topic. My impression is also that activity has declined, but it was less busy than now when I first joined eight years ago (bloody hell, eight years). In those early days, fresh with the joy of discovery, i can remember having posted the last move in every game on York and MCiOS, and being quite at a loss for what to do next once I'd done it. Especially on weekends. In retrospect this was a bit rude, but I was immature and callow even in those days. :) I find that nowadays I tend only to post in a small subset of games and even when bored am unlikely to stray into the others. Maybe other people have gradually settled into a similar pattern.
[Projoy] I certainly have settled into a similar pattern, though I'd like to think that's because I'm less obnoxious now. I'd say the most concerning trend is the seeming lack of interest in the game of Mornington Crescent itself - our one token game here, for instance, is crawling along quite pitifully, and Long Games all over the Morniverse have slowed to the pace of Jeremiah Snail, the 1956 All-Dorking District Champion.
Mornington navel-gazing
I think that posting only to one's favourite games is quite normal; it's certainly my style, but it depends on how creative I'm feeling at the time, if at all. A good rule of thumb is that if you have nothing interesting, witty etc to add to a game then wait till something more promising turns up. There is increasing verbal incontinence and rule-bending simply for the sake of posting something. The whole thing is beginning to annoy me, and not just me, as I know privately. We could also do without those who post under more than one name, which is deceitful and sad. One has already been outed and I have a very beady pair of eyes on another one.
Meanwhile, I'm rather concerned that a bunch of people who are posting elsewhere seem to have stopped posting here. Was it something I said?
I'm here! I'm here!
Trouble is, the limerick games are no longer and during the short bursts of time that I actually enter these portals, there's nothing else that takes my fancy. Apart from AVMA. Sometimes.
*waves from Praha*
[CdM] Maybe a long verse game? Although admittedly the last few attempts at "hard poetry" didn't seem to attract very many of the current Mornipersons.
Where did pen go?
[Tuj] Maybe you drop it on floor?
Time, time
Lack of time is making me ration the games I follow. If the general turnover was higher, I'd be active in a greater number of games. As it is, I tend to monitor chat, limericks, haiku, glow worms and on the whole that's it. Because they are the games where you can just dip in, make a worthwhile contribution to, and then disappear back into the ether. But of course, if I never find time to visit other games, I don't feel I have the right to kill them even if they are getting long in the tooth, and that reduces game turnover . . .
[Proj] You know what I mean ;)
[SM] That's the vicious cycle, isn't it just? We never did quite foster the quick turnover as even after upheavals we're still too cautious of scrapping games... I'm wondering if Clerihews (and possibly Cheddars) have had their day...
[SM] That's the vicious cycle, isn't it just? We never did quite foster the quick turnover as even after upheavals we're still too cautious of scrapping games... I'm wondering if Clerihews (and possibly Cheddars) have had their day...
Vicious cycle
[Tuj] Yes, indeed. In fact, I will bring up something I've advocated before and failed to convince people about; I think it's worth having a 'rapid turnover' section, a 'slow burner' section and an 'immortal' section. The immortal section would contain chat and possibly a long game. The rapid turnover would tend to be plain MC games, but with a smattering of other quicker-moving experiments. And the slow burners could have the game slots left over. I have long thought that the biggest problem is that the slow burners hog too many game slots. The shorter-lived games really do need their own section otherwise they keep getting crowded out.
[SM] Good, well-thought points. Would perhaps work better with games marked as to which they are rather than with separate sections though? And I'm sure having AVMA rather than a longer game would encourage some excellent short attacking MC games.
[SM] Hmmm... I'll think about this. I can forsee a difficulty in deciding which category things should fall into; though, of course, this can always be tweaked according to demand.
Anyway, just wanted to remark that it's only just got dark here.
It's been dark for about an hour here - I'm home now but have been in the pub with friends - watching the England Game. *sigh*
[Chalky] Dratted England. I spent the evening vociferously cheering Sweden, but sadly now England will be playing on my birthday :( roll on disappointment...
It's getting light here. Time for bed. The solstice will occur at 1226 GMT today after which it's all downhill.
The most wonderful day of the year *happy sigh*
Yeah, the flip-side is that it was fully light again at 4.30am, which woke me up...
I stayed up all night on Saturday night, chatting online... went to bed at 5am, by which time the sun was up and the birds were at full volume. The nights are soooo short in midsummer, it's quite eerie. I remeber camping in Perth (Scotland) reporting on a rally around this time of year, and it still being light at 11-ish, and then of course, there was the great trek north to the North Cape of Norway in midsummer 1995... magical. I always want to head north and be mostly outside every summer now. Instead, I sit behind this bloody desk staring at the screen - although I do have a nice pair of trendy geek-nerd specs now. They make me look like Nana Moouskouri. :o/
Longevity
[Rab] I'd would suggest that should be set up when the game is defined. If a game proves popular as an ephemeral it would have to be explictly killed off and reinstated in the slow burners section when next a slot appears. The important point is that the short-lived games section is explicitly flagged as such, and everyone knows that not only do we have have a licence to kill them off, but that we are expected to do so. Possibly even flag the game's creation date and give it a defined expiry date - three months or so tops, I'd say, pulling a figure out of my hat.
I still quite like the idea of doing it implicitly. If active games were sorted in order of sluggishness or otherwise (a bit like at Orange where you can sort them by most recent post, but based instead on the frequency of the last, say, five posts). Unloved games drop to the bottom, active games fizz to the top. Every week the least active game is automatically culled (unless, say, it started less than a week ago or it has been given some special protection like the Furcation game).
I make this suggestion in the secure knowledge that, as I can't code, I won't implement it, which is probably the worst kind of backseat driving. :)
I make this suggestion in the secure knowledge that, as I can't code, I won't implement it, which is probably the worst kind of backseat driving. :)
time...
What SM said about time (though this is still my first port of call in the Morniverse, and for mostly the same reasons he gave). I don't agree about typing games in advance, though - how would you know in advance whether something is a quick turnover or a slow burner?
I quite like Projoy's idea about automatic culling. Or, and this is completely off the top of my head, how about turning the process on its head? The opportunity to start a new game is always open, but every time someone starts a new game, the least active one gets killed off?
I quite like Projoy's idea about automatic culling. Or, and this is completely off the top of my head, how about turning the process on its head? The opportunity to start a new game is always open, but every time someone starts a new game, the least active one gets killed off?
Hmmm... I can see benefits to both the explicit and implicit approaches; the former is easier to code, but might be a bit onerous on (particularly) game creators. Furthermore, I've noted an increasing tendancy to be over-prescriptive in the game brief, and I think further prescription about how quickly moves are to be made might actually be counterproductive and cause all movement to cease completely. For this reason I think I prefer the implicit approach. As I mentioned before, I want to mine the data of all games played so far to see if I can devise some kind of estimate of a games "flagging" point, in which case it can be put on an endangered list and expire if no further moves are made. One problem with always having a slot open is that, as experience at the Lockisseum showed, you get passers-by just starting things for the hell of it.
[rab] Passers-by just starting things for the hell of it... is that necessarily a bad thing? Some of the most memorable games have started like that ("wigwam" on Orange springs to mind, but there are others). I'm starting to think we'd be better off it all games were treated as fast burners and we encouraged a much faster turnaround for games, to keep people interested and stop us all (me included) getting too caught up in only one or two games and ignoring all the rest. I've heard people say that years ago, the MC servers did have games which were much shorter, only lasting a day or so.
No time
Killing a game is easy creating a game that people want to play is more difficult, something different does not go down well, so players do not feel confident in filling a vacant slot. My worry over a timed game is once it has been timed out it will reappear as ...the Return Again of... which happened only recently. I would like to see more people prepared to start games and not stand on the side lines saying "what shall we do now, what shall we do now". With a regular turnover there will be flops and hits. The reason games hang around is the reluctance to replace them. I would not want to see time limits just more bravery with the sythe. Afterall what is the turnover of games on MCOiS where there are 18 active games.
[Darren] It's not a bad thing if it occurs only once in a while, but on the Lockisseum nuisance games were started on an almost daily basis until Dunx brought in the login system. I neither want the maintenance burden of cleaning up, nor to enforce logins for the starting of new games.
[Inkspot] Well, that would be all well and good if people actually killed games, but they don't so it seems that some form of encouragement is needed.
Kill! Kill! Kill!
There's a lot of it about!
But, but
Please don't kill the Shakespeare game. Yet, I mean, I'm sure it will need to go to its sweet, sweet rest eventually.
Quickfire or slow burner?
[Irouleguy] You don't try to make people predict the future; you have x quickfire slots and y slow burner slots. If a quickfire game ends you can only replace it with another quickfire game; if a slow burner ends, it can only be replaced with another slow burner. If one slot of each type chances to be available at the same time, then you get a choice. After all, an /unsuccessful/ slow burner will still face the chop relatively quickly; it's only the successful slow burners that will hang around.
Next up: the Dream Game...?
Dream Game?
What's a Dream Game then?
BTW I too have a game suggestion: Hide and Seek. This idea was inspired by listening to an old ISIHAC episode where the teams gave it ago. Seemed to work all right.
Nah, I was tongue-in-cheek suggesting the "I Woke Up..." game to be next for the axe! How would your Hide and Seek game go? Or would we work it out as it went along?
Incident room
Incidentally, factoids != lies; there needs to be an air of plausibility about them.
Not aimed at anyone in particular, btw, just covering my own back if someone claims it's a "Return of..." type game that I've been so vocal about in the past...
Simons] I see what you mean, though there also should be a way of converting a quick-fire if it gets really popular.
rab] I'm with Darren on drive-bys - if they're really naff they can be killed off just as quickly.
rab] I'm with Darren on drive-bys - if they're really naff they can be killed off just as quickly.
Game idea pitch
"Each move must consist of precisely eight words" - as it says on the tin. What happens in the game may be debated in the game: perhaps it'll be a conversation, perhaps a word-limited reprise of various games we play, or whatever.
Brain cell
[Iroul, Darren] Right, so if we have a slot permanently open which kills of the "least active" game, we can look forward to random passers-by, the generally click-happy and possibly not even real people starting carp like this and this on a daily basis, displacing things that you might actually want to play (actually, the latter example reveals a curious bug that I should look into, so it's not all bad news...). In order to deal with this I would need to write some additional code that would allow these effects to be reversed, ideally as though they had never happened. My time is quite precious these days, and I really don't think this is worth that investment. Sorry.
[Tuj] Sounds good. Who's going to start it?
rab] I enjoyed the second one... Point taken, though.
Hmmm, they looked different and more annoying from home. yes, the second one looks ok from here - very confused.
[Raak] More to the point, something would have to give way first.
There's about 3 million free slots at Orange.
pure class ...
.... the recent entries in Shakespeare.
[rab] But MC5 is home!
Friday....
There are 101 things to do, deadlines to meeet,check emails but I'd rather check the number of paper clips in my desk holder. Even wading through the mass of paperwork in tray for a couple hours seems appealing. Just so restless, put it down to being only days away from Goodwood and the Bugatti Veyron, another week less to being out sourced yet more bland statements from the employer this morning. Soon be lunchtime.
Monday ... oh, and Tuesday
I've actually got my main bit of work nicely rounded off, and am just picking at the edges of what's left while I wait for a major inventory investigation to start. 'Hurry up and wait' certainly isn't just a miltary weakness . . .
We have internal auditors who pop out of the woodwork every now and then. They tend to see everything in terms of black and white proceedures. To move things along in local government sometimes things become a bit fuzzy round the edges ;)
A big wave to all freinds in the colonies with their 4 July celebrations.
Hey Ho!
I'm still here!!! Hectic, new job....lacking sleep with Alex (who is now a big 9 weeks old), and not having a PC at work, or much time at home. Hence my infrequent "hereness". I hope you're all well.
Also still here
I'm getting a bit more connectivity and time. The netnanny at the new client allows MCiOS and here but not Orange. It also objects to some of the adverts carried by both Multimap & Streetmap, so I can get the map surrounded by bits of red threat screen. I feel like using the sites a lot in the hope of getting a call.
Rambling, and not even dressed for it
I just got a spam with the poetic subject heading: "Your money, pale-souled". It fired thoughts through my head, the image of money as a hollow souled entity... How do such poets reconcile their art with such a degrading way to earn a living? Does it give a spam composer a buzz just to know their words are read? Hmmm
Happy Birthday, pen!
[everyone else] There's a very large cake in the chatroom in MCIOS so please help yourselves ...
[everyone else] There's a very large cake in the chatroom in MCIOS so please help yourselves ...
Wah
I think I killed Shakespeare.
Has Hide & Seek run its course now?
Dreams too?
And Factoids? Perhaps time for a clearout?
Cheddars too?
[Tuj] Why Cheddars? It seems quite active.
[Darren] It's just been fairly low-quality grammatically, bothers me *wink* Anyway, aren't we encouraged to do some purging rather than talking about it?
[Tuj] Well, I don't mind terminating games I've created myself, but I do like to ask first in the case of other people's games, especially where I haven't made many contributions! I've closed Hide and Seek. In the case of Dreams and Factoids, I don't really feel qualified to shut them down myself.
Shall I do the honours for Factoids?
I'm sure you would do so self-referentially, so I look forward to it.
confessional
[rab] I dreamt about you last night. Pen was also in the dream. I think we were in a sort-of Rugby Pilg scenario, only the hotel's layout was rather similar to the house in the current Big Brother. Weird. And a little disturbing.
More free game slots
Hmm... but what?
Erk
[Chalky] Hmmm... I have a vague feeling you were in my dreams too. Telepathy in action no doubt.
I wrote a Very Large Cheque today. It still makes me sweat thinking about it. Should be moving in next Friday, the existence of some building warrants permitting. Saw the deeds yesterday too; one of the clauses I am unable to parse, another one witters on about a "free ish". Hopefully the solicitor will explain to us what this actually means.
[rab] Good luck. Get used to writing big cheques... I'll be writing one next week, and I read through the deeds to the new bungalow this morning - fascinating set of records. Nice to know they've searched me for any record of bankruptcy and found nothing ... yet! :o)
I like the thought of being in someone else's dreams, it means I manage to get out a bit. I had a very weird one last night - dreamed I met a man who liked me (I mean really liked me, but I have no idea who he was) and we were riding polo ponies in South Africa.
I like the thought of being in someone else's dreams, it means I manage to get out a bit. I had a very weird one last night - dreamed I met a man who liked me (I mean really liked me, but I have no idea who he was) and we were riding polo ponies in South Africa.
Hey, MC dudes
I don't know why, but there is something ineffably funny about adding "dude" to a serious quotation. "If I should die, think only this of me, dudes, there is some corner....." etc. Is it worth a short game?
[Kim] Isn't that game already exhausted by the describing of it, dude?
[Raak] Wot, like the Pants game, you mean?
[Kim] I'm not so sure it's all that funny, anyway. It was kind of exhausted by Bill and Ted.
Dudes, Romans and Countrymen
Maybe it's me, but I don't think it's especially amusing.
Might work; after all: There is nothing like a dude
[INJ] I think yours works because of the gender-bending it implies about the rest of the song. I'm gonna wash that dude right outta my hair, not so good. (However, I'm gonna wash that man right outta my dude sounds a little better.)
Doesn't like crap games with barons or earls
Won't go to Harlem in ermine and pearls
Won't dish the dirt with the rest of the girls
That's why the lady is a dude
Won't go to Harlem in ermine and pearls
Won't dish the dirt with the rest of the girls
That's why the lady is a dude
Dudes
Yeah, why not give it a shot? Even if it only makes for a short game. Incidentally, I have a Flash animation somewhere called Star Dudes, which is an accurate reenactment of the first Star Wars film, with 'Dude!' as the only dialogue, yet faithful to the original in every detail. And only about 3 minutes long in its entirety. Hopefully Googling should find it somewhere Out There, if anyone's interested.
begone bane of Beelzebub
Shakespeare has shuffled off to create a new game slot
Today's the big day! We hope... there's talk of retaining some money from the seller on account of missing paperwork, but we hope that won't screw things up too much. These solicitors really like to leave everything to the last minute, it seems.
Good luck with the solicitors and the move.
Well, in the last 24 hours the retention has gone down from 15k to 500quid as the bits of paperwork have mysteriously appeared. Should be getting the keys "in the next hour or so". We'll see about that.
thoughts.....
*hopes rab has got a shiny set of house keys by now*
*thinks Riddle-me-ree is a very satisfying game*
*thinks Riddle-me-ree is a very satisfying game*
*agrees with both thoughts*
party poker
Any number of roulette party poker sports button joker game http://www.ambersells.com gross value bluff four?
party poker
I didn't follow any of that.
[p p] No, you took a wrong turning. Go back the way you came and follow the signs towards dev/null.
Argh! English!
You take a turn, don't you, not a turning. You'd think I might know those things by now.
Wrong turnings
[Nea] Relax. 'A wrong turning' is a commonly-used idiom.
No, changed my mind
It's not an idiom, it's correct. 'Turning' is perfectly OK as a gerund. 'ing' appears in three places in Engish - as a gerund, as a progressive tense - both of which involve adding 'ing' to a verb, and as a noun-forming modifier for which I cannot find the correct terminology. The latter case involves adding 'ling' to a non-verb to produce a commonly-diminutive noun. Examples include underling, sapling, darling, sidling (which produced the verb sidle as a back formation). It used to be side-ling - i.e. someone who stands at your side as opposed to a subordinate under-ling. But of course given a variety of words ending in 'ing' it isn't always apparent that some were fromed from the 'ling'-route rather than the verbal 'ing'-route. The 'l' is a useful indicator, but not 100% reliable.
Simons Mith
That was very interesting, and no sarcasm is intended although it's hard to prove that without the use of tone of voice or facial expression.
Wide aw-ache
Well, it's gone like clockwork so far - all bar the phone line (again) so I may not be able to post much for a bit. Keys arrived, then a van of stuff (including a sofa) which was brought up the stairs by two burly Mancunians. Then a couple of car loads of stuff, followed by a bed, which was brought up the stairs by a burly Edinburgher and further assembled by him. Which was just as well, cos it would have taken us about five hours and we'd have done a really rubbish job of it too. Boxes of stuff still arriving in dribs and drabs, and we're slowly finding places to put all their contents. Nothing's yet come off in our hand or fallen off the wall or ceiling. The heating and shower works, the loo flushes... so pretty smooth so far I would say. I have, however, discovered muscles I never knew I had. Living on the top floor of a tenement block must be good for you, surely.
Oh, and we can't find the stopcock...
hot flushes...
[rab] Good luck an' all in your new home. The loo *might* flush, but just check it. My mother discovered the loo in her new bungalow flushes with water from the hot water system. (Have I mentioned this before?)
(pen) Doesn't this tend to vapourise the ordures, the very thing one tries to avoid?
[Rosie] Quite. Bob the plumber is coming round to fix it.
Game Idea
We don't seem to have any team games on the go at the moment. Anyone up for a - let's say a three way split, he says, trying to second-guess the likely number of players. Puce - Green - Chartreuse are I believe the traditional colours for such a split.
I read the other day that "miniature" (and the "mini-" prefix) comes from "minium", Latin for red. This refers to the small red lettering on a miniature portrait or similar. I'm going to look this up now, just to check. Incidentally, that doesn't pardon 6 quiz teams of staff from our local primary school being unable to spell "minuscule", despite the fact that it was on my son's spelling list 2 years ago (aged 8). Not one team got "manoeuvre" right, either.
mini-
OK, I've looked it up, and: Yes, miniature does derive from miniare (to colour red), from minium (red lead). Mini- is listed, however, as deriving from miniature and minimum, from minimus (least).
I think I need to do more research to ease my troubled mind.
I think I need to do more research to ease my troubled mind.
Dysorthography
WHAT? None of them could spell 'minuscule' or 'manoeuvre'? There a load of idiot's.
Have we ever played 'Shipping Crescent, To The Ends of The Earth', with a winning move, Dogger? Faster play during good visibility, obviously, and headwinds take the LV equivalent down a notch. And watch out for those South East Iceland loops. Shipping areas here.
Idiots
[Rosie] I think you mean 'lode'.
Spelling
[Rosie] Indeed, not one team got those words correct. They did marginally better with "accommodation", "Massachusetts" and "knowledgeable". However, I think only 1 team got "diarrhoea" right. I've done much harder spelling rounds in the past; admittedly that was for quiz addicts, and once was deliberately written to prevent a certain team winning, because I knew they would play their joker on a spelling round. I put in words like "eschscholtzia", "waqf" etc. just to screw them up :-)
(SM) I do. Your right.
[Rosie] Write, shurely?
(Chalky) Surely, surely?
Phil's diarrhoea
A mnemonic a teacher at school taught us several years ago:
Dashing In A Rush, Running Hard, Or Early Accident.
You'll never forget how to spell diarrhoea again!
Dashing In A Rush, Running Hard, Or Early Accident.
You'll never forget how to spell diarrhoea again!
Skwits
'Diarrhoea': S-K-W-I-T-S That's my mum's mneonic, bless her.
Flowthrough
My own Mum's prim version was "Air raid backwards". The opposite was "knobs". It was all "po". (SM) Yes, but what do S-K-W-I-T-S stand for? The SHITS, by the way, is a section of the band of the Irish Guards who call themselves the Society of Harmonious Irish Tunesmiths. This is true.
[Simons] I always thought it was "squits." That's how they spell it in Theme Hospital, too, so it must be right.
[Darren] That's what I thought too. But my mum does tend to take the path less travelled by, when it comes to spelling.
I defnatley have "squits" sometimes have "the trots" but mostly have diarrhoea
[Lib] You really need to see a doctor as soon as possible.
No mention yet of Montezuma's Revenge, The Bombay Trots or Delhi Belly?
*waves from Edinburgh airport*
Wow! rab's new flat is Edinburgh airport!
Waves from Edinburgh
[Darren] No, it's been raining as heavily up there as down south. Never mind a raincoat, yesterday afternoon I wished I'd brought a bucket and spade to work.
Waves from St Petersburg
I'm getting bored of saying this now. I have more free time than I know what to do with, but instead of doing something useful with it, like learn Russian, I'm going to play MC until I vomit. Hoorah!
*points at Shipping Forecast*
OOOOPS. Sorry.
I can say 'Here is my passport' in russian.
... and 'How are your parents' in portuguese.
I'd do well if I was dropped in the middle of Europe wouldn't I?
... and 'How are your parents' in portuguese.
I'd do well if I was dropped in the middle of Europe wouldn't I?
Eight Words game
Following on from the Eight Words Game, did anyone watch the '50 Greatest Comedy Sketches' programme a few days ago, and did it seem to anyone else that the funniest sketches were all 30 or 40 years old (Two Ronnies, Morecambe and Wise, Monty Python etc.)? I don't know who the public were that voted, but they didn't ask ME.
[Knobbly] Are you saying that the older sketches didn't deserve their place there, or not?
myself
Not at all - I'm saying that the older sketches were the funniest ones in it and that I don't think much of Little Britain, which won.
Despite not having seen the comedy sketches show in question, I'd like to back up Knobbly with my concordance of opinion.
Cancel Mansell
What about a game of rhyming or alliterative instructions for disposing of annoying celebrities and public figures?
I'd say by all means. I was also thinking of Cress but couldn't get the game started.
Team Game?
How about a two or three way team game? Puce v Chartreuse or Puce v Green v Chartreuse? I wouldn't advocate more than three teams - we don't really have enough players.
[pen] I was about to ask "How many of those do you think there'll be?" before scanning down see the game made and very well underway.
[SM] Sounds good - it seems like Crescent games aren't taking off at present and perhaps that would make it more interesting.
[SM] Sounds good - it seems like Crescent games aren't taking off at present and perhaps that would make it more interesting.
[nights] Did the Proposal Vetting Panel give you grief?
[rab] They did indeed. Damn bureaucracy. Seriously though, any reason why it didn't go through?
The Panel tends to get a bit shirty if it thinks you're starting a reheat of something old and tired. Placing old wine into new bottles sometimes helps.
Diarisation
I just received an email beginning "Do please diary this year's poster evening" and thought of, hmmm, almost everybody here.
Rab
(Not quite understanding...) Is it something to do with turning nouns into verbs? Or 'verbing' you might say.
who was it who said 'verbing weirds nouns'?
verbing
Are you willing to let me know who sent the email? I'd so love to reply :-)
[pen] It was Calvin (of Calvin & Hobbes)
[pen] It was Calvin (of Calvin & Hobbes)
[pen, Phil] Indeed, "verbing weirds language" - but a six-year-old or anyone else being silly should be allowed to. Serious usage of something like diary as a verb is definitely something we'll all get flighty about. We should be touched rab thought of us though.
Diarisation
(rab) Bin it.
[Rosie] We were waiting for you. Well said.
Meanwhile, what shall we do with that spare game slot?
Meanwhile, what shall we do with that spare game slot?
[Tuj] Not all of us. :-)
*seconds what CdM said :-)*
mcios
I can't get to mcios this morning. Anyone else having any trouble? (More generally, the internets seem to be very slow here in France, but I can reach most sites.)
(just diaried something, and is proud of it so ner)
[CdM] MCiOS seems to be OK from here, as, indeed, does the net in general.
[CdM] Buy new internets.
Just noticed something about Calvin's quotation
In "verbing weirds language", it's not a noun that has been verbed (as a noun, "weird" means "fate"), but an adjective. Off the top of my head, I can't think of another example of this formation - but I'm sure I'll now be inundated with verbed adjectives that are unbelievably obvious.
I wonder if those arrested for attempting to bomb Lonodn-US flights this morning waited deliberately until Tony Blair was on holiday and John Prescott was in charge?
[pen] I doubt if one blithering idiot is more likely to be of use to the nation than another in an emergency. Thanks for bringing the news to my attention though - I didn't know anything about it till now.
How many boots could a black coot black if a black coot could black boots?
[Phil] One example in standard English occurs to me: to black (a pair of boots, or a place of work).
Similarly, "to right something" and perhaps also (less clear) "to wrong someone"?
[Raak/CdM] However, "black" is also a noun. So is "wrong" and "right." Can an example be found which verbs an adjective which is not also a noun?
I was going to point out that "to up prices" involves verbing a preposition, but "up" can yet again be used as a noun.
Of course, in programming you can talk about "anding" and "oring" two numbers, but that falls more into jargon than standard English.
Loose?
Isn't that just a contraction of 'let loose', in which case 'let' is the verb?
Turpentine can be used to thin oil paint.
The map is ornated with three cartouches.
When the ossibuchi have browned on one side, turn them to brown the other.
(Ok, "brown" can be a noun, but I just like saying "ossibuchi".)
Verbing
[challenge] I actually think instances of verbed nouns-not-usable-as-adjectives are even rarer than instances of verbed adjectives-not-usable-as-nouns. However, I did find an example of a verbing of a non-adjectival noun: You can tree a cat. BTW Calvin's only 12 years younger than I am. He'd be 26 sometime this year. Yeesh!
I like saying "Raak".
Ornate ?
[Raak] I've nevr come across "ornate" used as a verb, and it hurts just to look at your sentence. I like the "thin" example, though.
Tree a cat !
[SM] I live and learn - I'd never seen "tree" as a verb before, other than in the sense that "the copse was heavily treed", but have found now found it in the dictionary. I may have to try and get this sense into normal conversation tomorrow
Treed
(Phil) I hope it doesn't replace "woooded". I agree "ornate" as a verb is monstrous when "ornament" already exists as a verb. (SM) How do you tree a cat? Stick a twig up its bum? You'll be lucky. I can see how you can de-cat a tree, though, even if it might need the Fire Brigade.
[Phil] I never saw it before, until I googled it in a spirit of misunderestimation. The OED has it as an obsolete verb, which I suppose is why an antiquarian map dealer might use it to ornate his prose. But as Caxton writes, "Somtyme ornatynge of wordes maketh the proposycion to be withdrawen fro the trouthe."
It's usually mixed up in some way to even both sides out.
Things have quieted down.
Dual the A11!
So is it in fact the case that "ornament" as a verb was monstrous because "ornate" already existed as a verb?
Is the interesting thing about these words simply that they don't appear to have been verbed in the 'normal' way - i.e. by an apparent change in the spelling? After all, it presumably doesn't count in the noun-to-verb category to include the verb "to shelve" since it isn't "to shelf", whereas "to tree" involves no spelling change (although I think some linguists would argue there is a morphological change by virtue of the change of use). In these non-spelling-change cases, it's presumably for some other reason that they appear the same when verbed... You can verb "thick" by spelling it "thicken", whereas "thin" doesn't lend itself to being spelt "thinnen".
(That said, I don't think it would break any intuitive rules of morphology to have "righten" and "wrongen").
[Non-adjective verbings] Saki has an instance of the verb "to sky", meaning the practice of putting the paintings of lesser artists higher up on the gallery wall, above better-regarded work.
Nounish verbings: beach, ship, dog, horse, house, caravan, cup, motor, earwig. "Some to think of it," he umbrella'd, "there aren't many words you can't slip in as a substitute for 'said'."
horse?
[pen] Ever horsed around?
[horsing] I know I have.
said
(Raak) Or omit it entirely, as in "So I'm like f*** off" and all that edifying stuff.
[Raak] Horse is a strange one... I dog you, you dog her, we dogged them, but do you ever say 'I horse, you horse'? It's usually linked to 'around'. I have no idea what this does to the classification of the nounage/verbage discussion. I'm almost out of my depth!
'Horsing'
Maybe it's like goosing, but on a larger scale. Oo-er.
Horsing
'Horsing' & 'Horsed' have been in common usage in the B&D world for years. So I'm told.
[TMITGS] Meaning what, exactly?
The only other usage than "horsing around" I can find on a (SafeSearch) Google, is the expression "to horse a gentlewoman", which I assume is an historical expression meaning the general assistance of a lady in enabling her to ride out. Then again, maybe I'm being naïve and it has a more Catherine the Great connotation.
Horsing around
I believe it involves a carpenter's sawhorse (suitably reinforced and stabilised), a willing 'victim', a quantity of rope and a good imagination. It might be a good idea to keep a chiropracter on the speed dialer too IMHO.
Earlier today something similar to Projoy's comment on "thicken" occurred to me, although I noted that "enlarge" seems to apply the suffix as a prefix. There are words such as "enliven" which seem to follow the same pattern, except "liven" isn't an adjective (at least now). Anyone know a reason why "enlarge" behaves like that?
[Darren] No idea, but it did make me think of the verb from "bold" is "to embolden", which has both suffix and prefix (though not necessarily in that order).
(Darren) "Enlarge" is from the French enlarger and may just be a copy, so to speak. A more regular formation, reading between the lines of my 1964 COD, would be "largen", (cf thicken) the prefix en- + adjective being rare. En- + noun or verb is common though and explains "enliven" either as "to give life to" or to (intensively) liven.
[Rosie] ...which has both prefix and suffix. As does embolden. But you can't ensticken the affixes on ad lib.
You people scare me a bit sometimes. I love you all, but you scare me mildly.
I am finding what I understand of this interesting, and I do enjoy a bit of linguistics, but perhaps I shouldn't have encouraged it a few pages ago. Carry on though.
(Raak) With "embolden" and "enliven" it would seem that in the past someone has done just that. I don't think the rules are particularly well-defined. (nights) Yep, we're a bunch of swivel-eyed fundamentalists. In the beginning was the Word. AND THE WORD SHALL BE SPELT PROPERLY. :-)
P - R - O - P - E - R - L - Y
Is there an opposite for "enlarge" which has the same pattern? There doesn't seem to be an "ensmall" or "enlittle" (although there is "belittle" but then where's the "belarge"?) - the closest in meaning is probably "shrink," which seems to have no connection with any words meaning "small" whatsoever.
Darren] Well, there's the Simpsons' 'debigulator' machine, which rather implies that there's a verb 'to debigulate'
More seriously, since the 'en-' prefix mostly seems to mean 'more of', or 'increase' you wouldn't really expect a word for making smaller to be made up in that way. There is 'decrease', which is a Latinate construction of 'de-' and crescere, to grow.
More seriously, since the 'en-' prefix mostly seems to mean 'more of', or 'increase' you wouldn't really expect a word for making smaller to be made up in that way. There is 'decrease', which is a Latinate construction of 'de-' and crescere, to grow.
I dog you etc...
[penelope] which sense of "dogging" are you talking about?
he, she or it dogs
[Phil] Perhaps it's best we don't ask.
[Phil] In the 'following someone annoyingly' sense. Why, what other senses are there? ;o)
[Irouléguy] Doesn't the prefix 'en-' mean something closer to 'to make'? (Enlarge - to make sth large).
Actually, the example that made me think that was ennoble - to make noble.
Actually, the example that made me think that was ennoble - to make noble.
What I just said
I have on my lap a big Chambers Dictionary:
en- prefix
1) in words derived from Latin through French (a)used to form verbs with the sense of in, into, upon; (b) used to form verbs with the sense cause to be; (c) used intensively or almost meaninglessly;
(2) in words derived from Greek used to form verbs with the sense of in.
I can't think of any for sense (c)...
en- prefix
1) in words derived from Latin through French (a)used to form verbs with the sense of in, into, upon; (b) used to form verbs with the sense cause to be; (c) used intensively or almost meaninglessly;
(2) in words derived from Greek used to form verbs with the sense of in.
I can't think of any for sense (c)...
(Knobbly) I think enliven could fall into your category (c). Liven would do on its own ( = to make lively).
The Simpsons also introduced "enbiggen", iirc.
[CdM] Wasn't that EMbiggen? As in, "A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man" or something to that effect?
dogging
[penelope] "To hold or fasten with a mechanical device", apparently. >-]
It's so nice to see grammaticalisation and form-function reanalysis in progress. Errr... I think.
House news - we now have a phone, the main delay caused by the engineer not knowing where a big pipe of wires came out. Broadband apparently appeared first thing this morning, but since I had to come into work to read my email I didn't know about it then. (Actually, given that we've just had a system "upgrade" here, it might have been better to have stayed at home in any case). First major disaster was the downstairs neighbour complaining of water coming through our ceiling. We had a plumber/odd-job-man come out Saturday morning and spend three hours under the bath fixing the makeshift repair that the previous owner must have done about, oh, three or four days before moving out. Nice welcome present for us, oh yes. Anyway, should be fixed now; no all we need is for someone to plumb the gap that subsequently appeared in my bank account.
+w
Knobbly] I must admit i didn't look it up - I just went off the sense of most of the 'en-' words I could think of. I still can't think of an example for making smaller, though.
Another contender for your sense c) is 'tangle' and 'entangle', though according to Webster-Merriam Online 'tangle' is an Anglo-Saxon shortening of an old French verb 'entangler'.
*waves red rag* Can I argue for 'to Google' as one useful example of verbification? I can't think of an alternative that isn't a clunky noun-phrase - to look up on Google, to research on Google, to scope (out) on Google, etc.
Another contender for your sense c) is 'tangle' and 'entangle', though according to Webster-Merriam Online 'tangle' is an Anglo-Saxon shortening of an old French verb 'entangler'.
*waves red rag* Can I argue for 'to Google' as one useful example of verbification? I can't think of an alternative that isn't a clunky noun-phrase - to look up on Google, to research on Google, to scope (out) on Google, etc.
I think "to Google" as a verb for "to search on Google" is OK, but only informally. I use it myself. However, it has become synonymous with "to search on the Internet, regardless of search engine used" which plays into the hands of those evil corporate types.
It has, of course, an friend in "to hoover."
To be more specific, potentially they could lose their trademark (at least in the US) if it becomes an ordinary word ("google" isn't an English word yet, although "googol" is), as once a word has become a generic term, it becomes impossible to enforce trademark rights on it.
to hoover
Ditto for "to Dyson", which used to be used in my household.
[Irouléguy] It would only become a generic if "to google" meant "to search on the internet on any search engine." As long as it's defined to mean "to use Google" it shouldn't present them with any problems. There are plenty of brand names which have become generic nouns, applied regardless of brand (escalator, tannoy, biro, etc.) but not many verbs ("to rollerblade" is another, though).
[Darren] "Escalate" (he tannoyed, then biroed it in on his list of brandname verbs).
I don't think "escalate" quite counts as it predated "escalator." The thing which makes "escalator" a generic is the way it's use for any moving staircase, with no regard for whether it's an Otis "Escalator" model. If, however, you say, "I'm just going to escalate to the third floor, darling," then yes, "escalate" qualifies as a generic verb. Personally I've never heard it used that way.
"Escalate" no longer reads as a word to me, as a result of the previous paragraph. I just see a bunch of meaningless letters. It's annoying when that happens.
Talking of meaningless letters, I've developed this annoying habit of leaving letters out of my posts: "it's use for" indeed.
(Darren) Stare at any word long enough and it begins to look mis-spelt or foreign. Either way you think you're going slightly barmy. I can assure you you're not unless I am as well.
Excuse me for a second...
Dear I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue Mailing List Member,
We are now in a position to reveal the dates of the Autumn series of I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue.
TICKETS WILL GO ON SALE FROM 10AM ON THE MORNING OF WEDNESDAY 16TH AUGUST.
Tickets to these recordings sell extremely quickly, so you are strongly advised to book early.
The first recording will take place on the evening of Sunday 22nd October 2006 at the Southport Theatre (capacity 1631). Tickets are priced at £10.50, £8.50 and £6.50, with a £2.25 transaction charge. There would normally be a £1.50 per ticket service charge as well, but we have absorbed this for you. You can either book tickets online at www.LiveNation.co.uk/southport , via the telephone by calling Ticketmaster on 0870 6077560, or in person at the theatre between the hours of 10am and 6pm, Monday to Saturday.
The second recording will take place on the evening of Sunday 12th November at the Victoria Palace Theatre (capacity 1525). This is the theatre showing the musical Billy Elliot. Tickets are priced at £11.50, £9.50 and £7.50, with a £2.50 transaction charge. We have absorbed a 6% per ticket service charge. You can book tickets online by calling 0207 834 1317 which will ring at the box office direct and if not answered (either due to being busy, ringing too many times or outside the hours of 10am to 8.30pm Monday to Saturday) it will trip through to Ticketmaster.
The third recording will take place on Sunday 26th November at the Sunderland Empire (capacity 1875). Tickets are priced at £10.50, £8.50 and £6.50, with a £2.25 transaction charge. There would normally be a £1.50 per ticket service charge as well, but we have absorbed this for you. You can either book tickets online at www.LiveNation.co.uk/Sunderland or via the telephone by calling the theatre's box office on 0870 602 1130 (phone trips to Ticketmaster either due to being busy, ringing too many times or outside of hours), or in person at the theatre box office between the hours of 10am and 7.45pm (6pm when there's not a show on), Monday - Saturday.
Doors open to each recording at 7pm, and the recordings will begin at 7.30pm. They are scheduled to finish between 10.15-10.30pm and include a twenty minute interval.
We are very concerned that tickets to these shows (which are already subsidised) are being touted for money, so in an attempt to remedy this, SALE OF TICKETS WILL BE LIMITED TO NO MORE THAN FOUR PER APPLICANT. Should you find yourself unable to use your tickets, please telephone the relevant theatre's box office. They will keep contact details for the first thirty applicants unable to get tickets, and will re-sell the tickets for you. Under no circumstances should you buy or sell tickets on eBay. If a recording has to be cancelled, anyone who has a ticket that has not be purchased legitimately will not get their money refunded, as Ticketmaster and the theatre box offices can only refund the original cardholder.
Dear I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue Mailing List Member,
We are now in a position to reveal the dates of the Autumn series of I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue.
TICKETS WILL GO ON SALE FROM 10AM ON THE MORNING OF WEDNESDAY 16TH AUGUST.
Tickets to these recordings sell extremely quickly, so you are strongly advised to book early.
The first recording will take place on the evening of Sunday 22nd October 2006 at the Southport Theatre (capacity 1631). Tickets are priced at £10.50, £8.50 and £6.50, with a £2.25 transaction charge. There would normally be a £1.50 per ticket service charge as well, but we have absorbed this for you. You can either book tickets online at www.LiveNation.co.uk/southport , via the telephone by calling Ticketmaster on 0870 6077560, or in person at the theatre between the hours of 10am and 6pm, Monday to Saturday.
The second recording will take place on the evening of Sunday 12th November at the Victoria Palace Theatre (capacity 1525). This is the theatre showing the musical Billy Elliot. Tickets are priced at £11.50, £9.50 and £7.50, with a £2.50 transaction charge. We have absorbed a 6% per ticket service charge. You can book tickets online by calling 0207 834 1317 which will ring at the box office direct and if not answered (either due to being busy, ringing too many times or outside the hours of 10am to 8.30pm Monday to Saturday) it will trip through to Ticketmaster.
The third recording will take place on Sunday 26th November at the Sunderland Empire (capacity 1875). Tickets are priced at £10.50, £8.50 and £6.50, with a £2.25 transaction charge. There would normally be a £1.50 per ticket service charge as well, but we have absorbed this for you. You can either book tickets online at www.LiveNation.co.uk/Sunderland or via the telephone by calling the theatre's box office on 0870 602 1130 (phone trips to Ticketmaster either due to being busy, ringing too many times or outside of hours), or in person at the theatre box office between the hours of 10am and 7.45pm (6pm when there's not a show on), Monday - Saturday.
Doors open to each recording at 7pm, and the recordings will begin at 7.30pm. They are scheduled to finish between 10.15-10.30pm and include a twenty minute interval.
We are very concerned that tickets to these shows (which are already subsidised) are being touted for money, so in an attempt to remedy this, SALE OF TICKETS WILL BE LIMITED TO NO MORE THAN FOUR PER APPLICANT. Should you find yourself unable to use your tickets, please telephone the relevant theatre's box office. They will keep contact details for the first thirty applicants unable to get tickets, and will re-sell the tickets for you. Under no circumstances should you buy or sell tickets on eBay. If a recording has to be cancelled, anyone who has a ticket that has not be purchased legitimately will not get their money refunded, as Ticketmaster and the theatre box offices can only refund the original cardholder.
OK
So here's a question: how do you find out a ballpark figure for how much one should be expected to pay for replacement windows? There seems to be a pact between fitters to give no indication of costs whatsoever, presumably so you can be royally ripped off when it comes to ordering them.
[rab] Try calling fitters and replacement window companies in a completly different town to escape the geographical fixed-price cartel. And I'm sure some of the national companies (Everest, Staybrite, Penicuik) have websites that might calculate it for you, once you have the approximate measurements. There's a glaziers' regulatory body I think - is it Fensa? Maybe they have a list of reputable ones.
Thanks. No-one seems to offer an on-line quote; I'm not even after anything as scientific as that, just an estimate of how many thousands of pounds it's likely to be so we can budget for it. Very frustrating.
[Darren] According to the online dictionaries I just consulted, "escalate" is a back-formation from "escalator".
Refenestration
[rab] How many windows do you want replacing? I have a ballpark figure of £5K for my flat, which would be 4 windows replacing, including patio doors. But then I am in the London area.
[Projoy] By that token, anyone outside London should be able to have it done for £1.50, then.
[Raal] Nice to see a new face here. You look a bit like Raak, if I may say so. Anyway, that's interesting because the ones I checked showed the reverse!
Eeek...
[Projoy] We have seven windows in total: three of them quite large (about 2m2), two medium sized (1.25m2) and two wee ones (less than 1m2 apiece). We're not in a listed building, or a conservation area, thank goodness, so they can be made out of anything we like, as long as we respect the astragals etc. 5K was the kind of number that was floating around my mind, for some reason, but from what you say it might be a bit more than that.
D-G
I paid 3.5k a few years ago for a ground floor flat; four large windows (3+m2 and one medium (1.25m2) plus a front door and a back door. It's the doors that add a lot to the expense; several hundred pounds a pop. And of course small windows are disproportionately costly for their size. I'd hope your requirements would be cheaper than Projoy's - I bet patio doors incur a double expense, once for being doors, and once for being large windows. I admit, I'd still anticipate a cost of well over 4k.
dee gee
Do you have to do them all in one go? I know there are 'do the front, get the back for free' offers every now and again... but don't panic, that's the main thing.
All for one
I spose not - but all but two of them really need to be done if not by the winter then next summer at the latest, so we may as well have them all done in one go. We'll try not to panic - I'm just not keen on the whole "salesman" thing...
My regular customers include a window salesman, and a window surveyor (goes round after the salesman has done his bit and actually measure the windows etc). Unfortunately, the latter is on holiday this week, but I'll check with the former this evening if I remember. He's an ex-salesman as of last year, so should be honest about it. From conversations with him, I can advise you to beware of all the "pay for the front, get the back free" deals etc, as those sort of companies will be ripping you off anyway. The salesmen are amongst the most highly-trained, aggressive-style of any trade. You do not get a bargain from them, even though you will think you do. Some of the techniques he explained to me were quite scarily akin to military interrogation. I'll let you know what he says either tonight, or tomorrow morning.
There is another way, though. If they are standard sizes, the window units themselves do not cost much (think 10% od what you get charged) and a pair of competent builders/handymen should be able to fit them.
There is another way, though. If they are standard sizes, the window units themselves do not cost much (think 10% od what you get charged) and a pair of competent builders/handymen should be able to fit them.
[rab] Everest claim to be the best, but are probably the most expensive. They did six floor-to-ceiling windows and a door for me years back for 4k. How long do you plan staying at the address? You don't want something that will need replacing again in less than 20 years.
Windows
I've spoken to my mate, who used to work for StayBrite. He says there's a huge window-making company in Edinburgh that the likes of Staybrite buy their windows from. He'll try and track down the name tonight. He also reckons that, if there are no complex openings required etc, that you "could" get it done for £2K-ish. His advice is find a reputable window-fitter, not a big national company - you get the same windows, a non sales-driven company, and half the price. More to follow when I get more info.
[Phil] I'll bet you 5p and a melon that it's Penicuik.
Gambling?
[pen] I don't accept bets that I might not win ...i.e. I think you're right.
Celebrity MC
Anyone seen Inkspot lately? He and I (as sigmundfreud) seem to be the only two left on Celebdaq. I'm really hanging on so he doesn't feel in solitary splendour. I suspect he's doing the same...
Alternatively, some of you deserters might re-join.
Alternatively, some of you deserters might re-join.
Celebdaq? Oh, puh-lease, that's so 2003. :)
[Phil] Thanks. Any ideas as to how one knows a fitter is reputable?
Isn't it marked on their bottoms?
[rab] Ask to see jobs they've done in the area, would be my best guess, other than local recommendation.
How's the weather?
>> Celebdaq? Oh, puh-lease, that's so 2003. :) Absolutely. For the last 3 years, I just buy Madonna - she's easy, cheap and she gets column inches.
Game slot
...just realised there's been one sitting blank for a while. Any innovative ideas?
digging the daq
[gil] Still doing pottering with the daq, member of Ultimates (MSN group) for investment tips and DDT also peek at http://www.redtide.co.uk/celebdaq/index.html?s=09000901
Every now again like today Mornington_Crescent appears on the front page, sadly I run more than one account. Still not made Top Trader.
Every now again like today Mornington_Crescent appears on the front page, sadly I run more than one account. Still not made Top Trader.
An old standby from my days as a language assistant - "What will you do this weekend?" "Remember, we construct the future tense using the auxiliary 'will' - the clue's in the question!"
le weekend
I'm currently waiting for a friend to make his way out of Town to the boondocks of the tube system, from where we will embark on a voyage of historical discovery. We're going up the M40 to go and look at the paintings in a stately home. I have to choose the CDs for the trip, and he's going to choose the destination. We'll probably argue a bit.
Today I learned something new
I learned why the Knights say "Ni!". Néa must know this already. "Ni" is the Swedish for "you" in the plural, and used to also be the formal singular "you", like the French "vous". However, Swedish added a strange twist to this. If someone was eligible to be addressed as "ni" then, by definition, it was inappropriate to do so. Instead, one referred to them by their title, e.g. "would the professor like another cup of tea?" As the writer concludes, "the world really is coming to a sorry state when people are going about saying "ni" to old ladies."
I suspected the story of being a wind-up, but I happened to have a copy of "Teach Yourself Swedish" dating from 1969, and it agrees. It also said that the awkwardness of having to address people in the third person, while also avoiding the words "he" and "she" (taboo in this situation), had led to efforts to persuade the Swedish public to use "ni" more widely, with some success. However, the success must have been limited, as I understand that the formal "ni" is now all but extinct.
It is not know if the Knights who say "Ni!" are a deliberate reference to this quirk of Swedish grammar.
I suspected the story of being a wind-up, but I happened to have a copy of "Teach Yourself Swedish" dating from 1969, and it agrees. It also said that the awkwardness of having to address people in the third person, while also avoiding the words "he" and "she" (taboo in this situation), had led to efforts to persuade the Swedish public to use "ni" more widely, with some success. However, the success must have been limited, as I understand that the formal "ni" is now all but extinct.
It is not know if the Knights who say "Ni!" are a deliberate reference to this quirk of Swedish grammar.
fun and games
This weekend, which is mostly gone now here? Watched a Hindi film, bought some plants and crushed my right index finger in a car door.
"In Soviet Union, Saturday is START of weekend."
Celebdaq
Ha! Despite the fact that I don't follow the trends in e.g. http://www.redtide.co.uk/celebdaq/index.html?s=09000901 I have been making a good living buying Madonna, which seems to be a profitable move.
Finger in car door
Wow! That hurts. My father-in-law shut the car door on my finger just before Beryl and I drove off on honeymoon... No remarks, please. My style was NOT cramped.
Knights, Madonna
*Delurking*
[Raak] But these knights you speak of are no longer the Knights Who Say 'Ni!' and annecdotal evidence would suggest they ceased to be so some time before 1000 AD, before the age of 'Professors'. Therefore, going by the rules of good Swedish, it would be inappropriate to refer them as 'Neow-wom-peng!' or something close to that. This story would appear to be another urban legend. :)
[gil] Your 'Celebdaq' posting had me in stitches when I read it. Then I looked up 'Celebdaq' and twigged I had the wrong end of the stick. Thanks for the laugh anyway.
[Raak] But these knights you speak of are no longer the Knights Who Say 'Ni!' and annecdotal evidence would suggest they ceased to be so some time before 1000 AD, before the age of 'Professors'. Therefore, going by the rules of good Swedish, it would be inappropriate to refer them as 'Neow-wom-peng!' or something close to that. This story would appear to be another urban legend. :)
[gil] Your 'Celebdaq' posting had me in stitches when I read it. Then I looked up 'Celebdaq' and twigged I had the wrong end of the stick. Thanks for the laugh anyway.
[Sierra Mike] I prefer to interpret the film as a metaphorically expressed history of Swedish grammar.
Celebdaq
[Sierra Mike]re Madonna... I have to confess the wording was chosen with irony in mind.
Irony / Swedish Grammar
[gil] Ah, well, it worked then.
[Raak] You are undoubtedly right. Where do the dismemberment ad absurdum and cannibalism fit in?
[Raak] You are undoubtedly right. Where do the dismemberment ad absurdum and cannibalism fit in?
[Sierra] I think it would take an expert in Scandinavian historical linguistics to fathom out the entirety of the Pythons' subtle code.
Pythons and The Swedish Language
[Raak] Now you come to mention it, there was that whole Scandinavian thread running through the opening credits, wasn't there? Jeepers, you may be onto somthing potentially very rewarding in the accademic sense and not to shabby in the next-year's-beach-book arena too if you can pull a "Dan Brown". The Python Codex is certain to be a blockbuster.
new game
It's ages since we had a Film Club or a Song Book...
[pen] And Sound Charades, as well. Something should really just get rushed thru'.
*stands back in anticipation of the rush*
Yep, I knew that
[Raak] That's it, in essentials, though not quite quite. Quoting my handbook in etiquette from 1933:
"Although the use of the address ni is more common today than ten or fifteen years ago, it is not accepted in ordinary social life. [...] it is however permitted to include a ni here and there in conversation, provided that one also includes the title. Thus, it is possible to say "Oh, so the countess was in Visby last summer, how did ni find it?" or "Is the consul going to Paris, weren't ni there last spring?" But you cannot be too young if you are to use ni to older people [etc etc for 30 more pages about use of titles I kid you not]"
It does say that using "ni" to colleagues is fine, though, as well as some other equal-status situations where it was OK. There's a whole chapter about when to stop using titles -- always a mutual process, you stopped using each other's titles and said du (sing. "you") instead of ni. A lot happened in the decades following with an increase in "ni" and decrease of titles, but the big big revolution was in the late 1960s, when the head of a government office declared that he would say "du" to all his employees and expected "du" back. (Well, that's it in a nutshell anyway -- it was more complicated of course.)
Anyway, the funny thing is that after all that, today Swedish uses virtually no titles at all. We have "Mr", Mrs", "Miss" and "Dr" and various old nobility and royal titles, but apart from royalty nobody uses any titles, ever. (Very young schoolkids tend to call their teacher "miss" or "teacher", but once they hit 10 or so it's strictly first names.) So when buying, say, plane tickets from British Airways, a Swede is struck by the necessity to put a title there -- which feels very very foreign.
"Although the use of the address ni is more common today than ten or fifteen years ago, it is not accepted in ordinary social life. [...] it is however permitted to include a ni here and there in conversation, provided that one also includes the title. Thus, it is possible to say "Oh, so the countess was in Visby last summer, how did ni find it?" or "Is the consul going to Paris, weren't ni there last spring?" But you cannot be too young if you are to use ni to older people [etc etc for 30 more pages about use of titles I kid you not]"
It does say that using "ni" to colleagues is fine, though, as well as some other equal-status situations where it was OK. There's a whole chapter about when to stop using titles -- always a mutual process, you stopped using each other's titles and said du (sing. "you") instead of ni. A lot happened in the decades following with an increase in "ni" and decrease of titles, but the big big revolution was in the late 1960s, when the head of a government office declared that he would say "du" to all his employees and expected "du" back. (Well, that's it in a nutshell anyway -- it was more complicated of course.)
Anyway, the funny thing is that after all that, today Swedish uses virtually no titles at all. We have "Mr", Mrs", "Miss" and "Dr" and various old nobility and royal titles, but apart from royalty nobody uses any titles, ever. (Very young schoolkids tend to call their teacher "miss" or "teacher", but once they hit 10 or so it's strictly first names.) So when buying, say, plane tickets from British Airways, a Swede is struck by the necessity to put a title there -- which feels very very foreign.
Neow-wom-peng!
[Néa] Swedish schoolchildren are presumably too well brought up to say "Ni!" to a teacher. Would that our lot were as aware of the social graces.
My butcher calls me "Sir", and I love it. I'd be delighted to go back to using titles and surnames instead of all this pseudo-familiar first name tosh. If someone repeatedly uses my name, I instinctively remind myself not to buy anything, or co-operate for that matter. Still, it's better than being called "mate" by someone I'm trying to conduct some business with.
Surnames
(Phil) My Indian newsagent always greets me with a smile and "Ah, Mr Hughes" when I go in each week to pay for the papers. This is almost too formal even for someone of my age but charming nevertheless. What I really don't like is name-tags where the surname is omitted. It's either false familiarity or management's way of saying you're not very important.
I'm not keen on letters coming from people with gender-neutral names (like Chris) without a title as you then never know how to write back to them.
[rab] "Dear Chris"? Isn't the point that once they've introduced themselves by a particular name it's quite acceptable to address them by it...?
Chris
My nextdoor neighbours are Chris and Sam. Any guesses?
{Projoy] Actually, I was thinking of emails rather than letters where you have mail from "Chris Jones", and at the bottom a standard sig "Chris Jones, Gender Neutrality Officer". To me, it feels utterly wrong beginning a communication with "Dear Chris" when I've never met the person in question.
Mind you, I once had a letter from Scottish Gas, signed by hand as "Scottish Gas"...
[rab] Did you reply "Dear Scottish" or "Dear Mr Gas"?
I agree with rab about feeling uncomfortable replying to mails like that. I generally duck the issue and just start them with "Hi -" and in fact, I don't often use names at all unless there's ambiguity as I've never been comfortable with using people's names for any purpose whatsoever, even if I've known them for years. Dunno why.
[rab] "Dear Sir or Madam, as the case may be:" Although in email I never use any salutation at all.
OMG
[Raak] Why not? [All others] What about you? Do you use salutations in email?
[Néa] Just the custom I'm accustomed to (and therefore the One True Way).
I use 'Good morning [name] or sometimes just 'Good Morning' (or afternoon), or sometimes 'Dear [name] in an email; if it's a round-robin (which is often is) I just start with an attention-grabbing 'Ladies and Gentlemen' which seems to go down fairly well, apart from with one individual who has been making a fool of herself recently and is not much longer for this corporate world, I feel.
[Rosie] A gay couple. With stupid parents. :oP
[Rosie] A gay couple. With stupid parents. :oP
[Néa, from whom all knowledge springs, from whose navel a lotus springs forth and who encompasses the oceans in three strides] I avoid salutations as unnecessary ornamentation.
[Salutations] For email, even formal email, I find that "Hello," is a perfectly good opening for almost every purpose. So much so that I now find it slightly quaint to receive an email that begins "Dear..." (particularly if the person uses my surname). And it's been many a year since I've seen a "yours faithfully". If forced into a formal signoff, I tend to stick to just "Yours," for fear of writing something I don't in the slightest bit mean, such as "sincerely".
[Dear Mr B-----,] While I am familiar with the feeling whereof you speak re: addressing someone by their first name prior to a formal introduction, which no doubt is deplored in Debrett, I can't say I've experienced a great deal of discomfort in discarding the convention.
Oh no, i fear I'm a fogey (yet again)...
In emails, I use "yours faithfully", "your sincerely", "regards" or "kind regards" depending on the context. I also use "cheers", which I use as a multi-purpose word in spoken coversation anyway. However, at the start of an email, I tend just to use the person's name (surname if we're not acquainted, forename if we are) or "Dear Sir or Madam" if it's to "complaints@????.com" or "service@????.com" (as many of my emails are).
re:
[Phil] Whats the difference between regards and kind regards? I've never really appreciated this subtlety.
Chris and Sam
(pen) Sorry, but it's Christopher and Samantha. 50 yrs ago it would have been Christine and Samuel.
Now I come to look at it, Christine seems such a silly name. It's like the brand name of a sort of mini-Messiah individually wrapped for your comfort and convenience.
"Vicar, do you sell small packs of Christines for the weekend?"
[Projoy] Most names start to look pretty silly if you look at them too closely, like most words.
Salutations
[Néa] I tend to use a first name and a colon. It's my style. For example:
Dear Samantha:
Isn't it about time you got off Humphrey's hand? I should think it was quite uncomfortable.
All the best,
Nights.
I think of an email as being a less formal letter - with an opening, closing and all the rest. Most of my peers think I'm bizarre for this.
Dear Samantha:
Isn't it about time you got off Humphrey's hand? I should think it was quite uncomfortable.
All the best,
Nights.
I think of an email as being a less formal letter - with an opening, closing and all the rest. Most of my peers think I'm bizarre for this.
hi nites i reckn your a yong fogy rosie
Hello, I must be going
In email I don't use valedictions either, just my name at the end or a .sig. Written letters go "Dear Sir/Yours faithfully" or "Dear [name]/Yours".
emailiquette
Hmm, well showing my old-foginess I start with a "signature" saying who I am, website details etc. (Though this is automatically included) Then I use Dear (name) <comma> Dear Humphrey, Then the text - all properly written out and hopefully correctly spelt and punctuated. And I tail it with Regards, Blob (or whatever soubriquet that person knows me by) ........ What's more, I write SMS texts in much the same way !!!
Formality
(Nights) Actually most of my emails are no different from letters except in the greeting if I'm familiar with the person. This means capitals, punctuation and paragraphs. Well, why not? At my age you simply don't give a toss if people think you're bizarre. It's great.
The thing is, I tend to see emails as more closely related to memos than letters. When I receive an email written like a formal letter, it comes across, frankly, as somewhat illiterate.
[darren] How would you receive a letter through your letterbox? Would you feel impatience that they didn't email you about it?
[Projoy] It's a gut feeling thing. Although, if I sit and think about it, my regards tend to be much kinder if I'm selling than buying.
[pen] I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at there.
[pen] Dunno about Darren, but I would feel exactly that (and frequently do). We've too few trees as it is, without wasting them on pointless letters, cards etc.
paper
(Projoy) You really can't be allowed to get away with that. The proportion of paper in actual letters compared with the total amount of paper (newspapers, junk mail etc) that comes through my letterbox is very small. In any case, we're not short of trees; there are many more than there were 40-50 years ago, everywhere. To be honest, I'm not that keen on trees, they spoil the view and at one time threatened to undermine my house. Rather overrated, I feel.
[Rosie] Who says my annoyance is confined to only legitimate letters? As to "more trees", I don't know if that's true, although I guess you're more likely to know than I am, But don't we need even more trees at the moment to do Carbon Dioxide conversion? This is the general impression I have gained.
Trees
I suspect Rosie is right that there are more trees now than in the 50's. I'm pretty sure, however, that there were many more in the 30's and more still before WW1. Also, the tree-planting boom of the 50's 60's & 70's was mostly conifer plantations. Planting more trees as mixed woodland must be a good thing both aesthetically and as carbon sinks.
IIRC, commercial forestry supplies most of the pulp for paper - and that's a planting-and-harvesting operation of fast-growing monoculture conifers; it doesn't use wood from mixed and deciduous woodland.
I'm still not sure what forest conservation and my opinion of email writing style have to do with each other.
Tree abundance
Which would explain the demise of resin/wood particle composite board and the resurgence of quality natural wood at the woodyards. Oh, hang on......
That's a matter of furniturenfashion and the health hazards of the resin fumes, innit?
[Rosie] Well I look forward to being 23 then. And I write text messages just the same way - the joy of predictive text. And a new phone!
In other news, I handed in my dissertation today!
In other news, I handed in my dissertation today!
[nights] Congratulations! Well done! I hate you. No, really, well done.
Trees
(Projoy) It's true that trees fix carbon rather than letting it float free as CO2 but the number needed to make any difference is impractically large particularly considering the rate the Amazon jungle and other areas are being chopped down. Trees are nice but have become sacred, which is just silly. They undermine buildings, obscure the sky and the view, drop leaves on the railway line and are even allowed to obscure signals. The biodiversity of tree-free railway cuttings was incredible. Down with trees! BTW I don't quite understand your aversion to printed paper. I get cards all the time from my nieces in addition to all the emails, which is nice, and far better than when they were young teenagers and sent me electronic Christmas cards. Sod that.
[Rosie] Well, I suppose it's a personal preference, but I just find dealing with paper irritating these days. It becomes clutter very quickly. You can't miniaturise it and file it conveniently in a sensible folder system on a HDD. Cards and the like seldom express sentiments profound enough to be worth keeping, and for the most part are ritualistic and purposeless. Almost anything that could be said in a conventional letter could be said in an email, which is far more keepable these days.
call me old-fashioned
[PJ, Rosie] Being a keen calligrapher - I mostly design and write greetings cards to close friends and family. They seem to appreciate the personal, snail-mail touch because it's evidence that one has made the effort. Far more 'keepable' I'd say.
I loathe "greetings cards", and I've just deleted my justification of that statement because I don't want to feel yet again that I'm the only one singing in tune :-)
[Phil] I'm only mentioning how much I despise commercial greetings cards so you know you're not alone. Under normal circumstances I wouldn't even have botherd to mention it. Profit margins of 60%+?? The sleazy slimeballs.
Me2, as mentioned (and justified) above.
[SM & PJ] I have an equal, but differently justified, loathing for hand-made ones too.
I love cards. I love writing letters. I love recieving post of any form. I send lots of postcards when I go on holiday. I particuarly like hand made cards. I do get a bit pissed off when I get a Christmas card from someone I rarely keep in touch with just signed with their name, as I'd like a little newsbite. I try to lead by example and put a little line or two in each card, something personal to who its addressed to. I also mostly try to make my own Christmas cards, although I was defeated on that one last year (I sent over 85, and recieved a similar number). So, why do I like them. I accept that I do mostly just throw them away (or try to recycle) and it is a fair economic cost, but I like to keep in touch with as many people as I can and I think its a good way to show that you're thinking of someone. Hurrah for cards. That's what I say!
[Lib] If I want to know what someone whom I am otherwise too feckless to stay properly in contact with is up to, I'll usually google them or take a look at their blog or something. If I instead sent a card for the sheer sake of "staying in touch" what pleasure would it afford them to know that I thought of them... but didn't think enough of them to do more than send a card? You might argue that I miss the point, and I suppose I probably do. Obviously, not attacking anyone else's way of staying in touch, but that's how it's always seemed to me.
Apologies if I come across as a crabby bastard, but, well, I am one. :)
[PJ] You didn't seem any more crabby that I am (revising never brings the nice side of me out)... I like to know that someone out there is thinking of me. That's probably something to do with the kind of high-maintainence-centre-of-attention person I am. Getting a card is something concrete that I can see that they've thought of me. Looking at my blog doesn't mean anything as I don't track all the hits. But, each to his own, hey? And I'll remember not to send you any cards a ProjoyTowers.
crabby old so-and-so
[Phil/PJ] Hmm - surely you have aunts, uncles, grandparents [even parents] that may not be quite as netsavvy as you? [or even own a PC]. How do you all stay in touch or send birthday/christmas-type greetings to them? Telephone?
[Chalky] Why stay in touch? Why send greetings? Unless you want to know them as friends, doing either of those two things seems completely pointless - maybe even slightly hypocritical - to me.
[Chalky] I didn't say that I prefer to use the net. I just don't really "stay in touch". I have one uncle, one aunt, one cousin, no grandparents. I do speak to my brothers and parents fairly frequently on the phone. I do send birthday and christmas cards to all family members (including in-laws and 2 nieces) - I also loathe buses, but use them when necessary.
On the other hand, we all use email too for quick messages, e.g. my sister-in-law invited us to her 50th birdthay party by email, and I was able to decline within 30 minutes - job done, no waiting; no having to find a "sorry we can't come" card, write it, find her address, buy a stamp, post it (all of which would take me a day or two).
On the other hand, we all use email too for quick messages, e.g. my sister-in-law invited us to her 50th birdthay party by email, and I was able to decline within 30 minutes - job done, no waiting; no having to find a "sorry we can't come" card, write it, find her address, buy a stamp, post it (all of which would take me a day or two).
[Projoy, Phil] Blimey, I'm now wary of having either of you two as friends... if I left it too long, the friendship lapses and you'd discontinue membership! I've got friends all over the place that I don't see for a couple of years at a time, but I'm extremely pleased that I *can* count them as friends, and still send xmas cards. I really can't see it the way you do.
Stands in the girls corner
Am I sensing a gender divide here?
[Lib] No, I like cards.
speaking literally
[Phil] I see. You seem to use different methods for different folks. Me too. I just prefer to make a greetings card than to buy one [for the reasons already stated by PJ and SM.
[PJ] Why stay in touch? The ones I stay in touch with are the ones I LIKE and respect.
[PJ] Why stay in touch? The ones I stay in touch with are the ones I LIKE and respect.
Well, I know it means more to me when I send a card or letter than an email (partly because of the extra effort). So it means more to me to receive one as well. Also probably more than half the people I communicate with regularly are not regular e-mail users, even if they have an address. I just think it's for different purposes. Quick notes, information-based, SMS or email; communication - letters or cards.
[Proj] You don't think staying in touch with your aged relatives who are not on the Internets is worthwile in itself? Me, I like sending post cards, but not too many or too often. I defaulted out of Postcrossing recently.
In other news, I suck at lecturing. Really and truly.
In other news, I suck at lecturing. Really and truly.
[Néa] *thinks for a moment*. Mm. Not really - for them or me. [pen] I have friends whom I sometimes don't see for a couple of years, or more. It sounds like in your case it's necessary to send a card or something in order to maintain the friendship subscription (whether used or not). In my case I'm very happy for someone I like to show up again after a couple of years of not calling or writing. I don't require them to ping me in the interval, because it would be a waste of both of our time (at least until they or I are ready to re-engage - and also a waste if one of us is no longer really interested).
[Néa] PS. I bet you don't suck at it.
[Néa] I agree, I bet you don't suck.
[penelope] I wonder, do I really have friends, per se, or perhaps I just have pals? I think that could be an interesting bit of self-analysis, perhaps anyone who counts me as a "friend" could contribute. Oh I dunno, I'm just me, and I'm not great at communicating, so I don't bother :-)
for flerdle's eyes only
Here's something flerdle told me:
Hidden text
only kidding!Phil:
Hidden text
:-)*comes back from Leamington Spa, joins the "I bet Néa doesn't suck brigade, and says to flerdle and Phil*
Hidden text
"What?"That's the "I bet Néa doesn't suck" brigade.
[Tuj] Phew.
cards
I'm terrible at sending cards, and I find it a nuisance. What's worse though, is that my mum gets cards and she has NO idea who the people are. She may have met them once, or be related to them, but if they sign the card with their first names only it's hard to guess. She gets a few like that every year.
Cards
I go through the ritual, but only because it's generally done. But awkward situations sometimes come up. Should I send a Christmas or birthday card this year to my lately ex-sister-in-law? At what point should a Christmas card to my brother also be addressed to his new partner?
I donate, instead of sending cards. That, and I usually work extra shifts at Christmas so I don't really have the time.
cards
We did get one christmas card last year that said that they would not be sending cards this year, but would be making a donation to a charity (I think it was for MS) instead. Sounds good to me! We did that in work too - everyone gave a couple of pounds and we gave it all to a charity instead of giving out cards.
Which begs the question ... How does one let people know that one is donating to charity instead of sending them a card?
[Chalky] You send them a charity card.
Cards etc
Why do people have to know one is donating to charity except to inform them what a Wonderful Person one is? Why not send cards as usual and donate to charity? Or send "charity" cards? I normally send cards to people I don't see very often; it just means you've remembered them and value them. Some, but not all, of a group of pub mates have taken to sending (i.e. dishing out in the pub) Christmas cards to each other, which I think is barmy. I don't do it and it's done me no harm whatever.
Nothing in particular
Just thought I'd try and introduce a new subject, but I can't think of one. Anyone care to comment?
[Phil] I'd love to help, but I'm away to Bury to see IQ in concert.
New subject
I've been out all evening - has Blair gone/died/been arrested/resigned/emigrated yet? Can't wait.
I played all 7 of my tiles in one go in a game of Scrabble yesterday - the word was SLEETED.
Maybe changing the subject should be the new subject.
(Tuj) You could have had DELETES or STEELED.
[Rosie] I'd also spotted those (and the D was actually a blank!) but I picked SLEETED over STEELED (DELETES didn't fit on the board).
* waves from Ambleside *
Cards
I was firmly in the anti-card camp, but I've found things have changed since having a kid. Suddenly photos of the littleun are a commodity for relatives - especially the older and less internet savvy kind. So, I've been sending cards using pictures of my son to people where in the past I might have a) sent a crappy off the shelf card and hated the whole process and b) not bothered through apathy.
One thing that kick started it all was finding a program called Comic Life (Mac users - I recommend it heartily) which is great for knocking up comic strip style cards using my own photos. I've also been known to send an occasional e-card as a slightly more colourful way of marking an occasion than just sending email. I think cards for me inhabit a sort of middle zone of contact with someone, and I find it pleasing to think that I can send my offline relatives something tangible with a picture of their grandson/great grandson on it.
One thing that kick started it all was finding a program called Comic Life (Mac users - I recommend it heartily) which is great for knocking up comic strip style cards using my own photos. I've also been known to send an occasional e-card as a slightly more colourful way of marking an occasion than just sending email. I think cards for me inhabit a sort of middle zone of contact with someone, and I find it pleasing to think that I can send my offline relatives something tangible with a picture of their grandson/great grandson on it.
ego tripping
I've made a move in every game in here today, so I may as well mention it here :-)
[Chalky] You should win something... a sort of sedimentary layer award.
[rab] Do html tags work in the titles of games? Actually I was mainly thinking of the hiding tags - a game entirely consisting of hidden moves would be fun. I was also wondering if it might be time for another Lies game.
Tag
[Tuj] No.
Fresh morning
When bringing in the milk this morning at half six, there was a definite sense of the summer being over. A low haze of thick grey cloud, drizzle soaked grass and the street lights still on (not doing much but just quietly announcing that the mornings are getting darker). Inside the lights turned on for breakfast and side lights needed on the car driving in. At least one thing the heating is still off and will hopefully stay that way till October.
I don't want another Lies game.
Here in the deep south (Hants) it is doing the old cats and dogs routine (and to a strong degree at that). Certainly a change having been building sandcastles on Monday!
[Inkers] Well don't start one then.
[Inkers] Well don't start one then.
I'm going to have to get my chimney swept, as it looks like I might be here till the end of October :-(
I can't wait for there to be a nip in the air - it's rainy here, but so warm and muggy. In preparation for autumn and winter, I ordered some new boots yesterday and tested the central heating. But I think the ancient boiler's pump has given up so the central heating doesn't work. I don't need it yet, but I'm hoping this'll prompt the landlords into renewing the boiler. They seem so proud of being to make it limp along for longer than is sensible, dammit. I just want a nice condensing boiler to make only as much hot water as I need, not a hot water tank - it's daft for just one person. In the meantime, I have a warm laptop for personal comfort :o)
We had British Gas round to do the annual service the boiler the other day, its a bit doom and gloom, it is old and parts are hard to replace. They have suggested a new combi boiler.
[pen] Sh. Don't wish it away. There'll be plenty of nip in good time. [Tuj] Lies games are really impossible to play, they're always the least popular games in the Morniverse and usually end up neglected.
[Inkers] Do it. It'll be quieter and more efficient.
Speaking of energy, having just discovered that I'm paying more than twice what I did for electricity a couple of years ago, I looked into other possibilities. Apparently, one can now change electricity suppliers with just a few clicks on a web page, and I stand to save 20%. Is it really that simple? Has anyone here done it? I'm looking at Powergen vs. Atlantic, and I wonder how Powergen can now stay in business except by relying on the inertia of their customers. (Yes, I know it's evil to heat a house with electricity, but I doubt if it's adaptable to gas.)
Electricity slags
Funny thing, electricity pricing - I was involved in the new trading arrangements which came into force in 1998. One of the effects of them is that it's cheaper to buy small quantities of electricity than large most of the time, so the big players like Powergen are somewhat handicapped. The difference is nothing like 20% though. Of course, lots of suppliers have short term or 'new customer only' promotions, hoping to get people in and then rely on inertia. The cheapest thing to do is therefore change often.
Do you have people going door-to-door trying to get people to change their gas/electricity company? For a few months here I was plagued by 'em. Started fantasizing about electricifying the doorbell to give them a shock... rude words were thought, but not said.
[flerdle] I did get a few a while back, very strange. The first one opened by saying "How would you like to save money on your electricity bill?", and wanted me to sign up there and then, without even saying what company he was representing. Then a few months later, two young women doing "a survey" asked if I had switched suppliers, "like most of your neighbours have". Nul points. Probably from the same company, whoever they were, and if I did, I'd make a point of never doing business wth them, ever. Then the first chap came back again and I just said "Not interested" and closed the door.
[INJ] Odd, I'm going by the companies' own published tariffs for an Economy 7 dual meter. All the companies seem to claim to be at least "part of one of the biggest suppliers", although that's rather an elastic expression.
[INJ] Odd, I'm going by the companies' own published tariffs for an Economy 7 dual meter. All the companies seem to claim to be at least "part of one of the biggest suppliers", although that's rather an elastic expression.
Deregulating Utilities = cheaper phone/gas/'lectric
It has been my experience that deregulating state-owned utility services results in a welter of paperwork for the consumer who is bombarded by junk mail exhorting this or that 'cheaper' version of whatever it is. They invariably aren't cheaper in the long run, largely because of the increased costs associated with legislation, litigation and advertising. Service call-outs become a nightmare of humanless voice-mail mazes and all one really gets is a warm feeling when one thinks about the 'good old days'. My gas service was recently split from the monopolistic energy carrier from my area. Costs increased overnight by 10-15% and there are now three phone numbers to report a gas leak with no 24-hour call-out. The joke? that the billing departments, although ostensibly now separate for gas and electricity, still use the same style account numbers and go to the same building. Indeed, I can pay my electricity bill at a window in a gas-company cashier's office. I suspect the bills are made up on the same computer. It's all a game.
I've argued on the doorstep with an electricity account swapper guy before too. I told him I didn't want to discuss it there and then, and he kept asking me 'why not?'. so I shut the door on him. It was quite scary, to be honest, he was becoming vehement. Lord knows what it's like for little old ladies.
This is one of the benefits of having an entryphone system - with a bit of skill (and luck in having the topmost buzzer) you can generally fend these people off before they gain access to the stair.
Also, how do they tell whose electricity it is? It's all the same wires, and the electrons aren't labelled.
'leccy
[Raak] You could spin 'em up with a particular bias though. That way you could discriminate yours from the rest by having a filter installed at the customer's service entrance that let through electrons with a penchant for drinking only gravity fed beer or that preferred a lawn mowed in alternating stripes and kept the others out for example.
Don't you realise you're all geing ripped off. It's AC electricity - that means you're getting the same electrons going in and out of your meter day in day out, yet you get charged as if they were all brand spanking new...bloody nerve these leccy suppliers have got, I reckon.
Privatisation
(SM) Quite so. Competition in itself costs money and furthermore there has to be rake-off for the private company or they wouldn't be interested in the first place. So naturally it costs more, or the service is poorer. Another example is Directory Enquiries, privatised for no good reason whatever except to satisfy the current political dogma. Don't get me going about the railways, about which I know a bit. Truly the country is run by idiots.
(Phil) A very good point. The less fastidious among us would settle for AC/DC but that's up to them, naturally.
I'm glad someone mentioned Directory Enquiries... I remember that once upon a time it was operated by BT for free; then they charged about 10p which could be circumvented by using a phone box; looking at last month's phone bill, I notice that fierce competition has delivered the fantastic bargain of 60p per enquiry. Victory!
Since they started charging, I've not used directory enquiries once. I find 192.com to be very good.
Slightly tangentially, at work, I have had no end of incorrect reservations, e.g. someone books at this Bull's Head, then turns up for dinner at another, because 118118 or whoever has given them the wrong number. One night we had two bookings that didn't show, so I called them the next day saying "Hello, this is the Bull's Head at Ratby; you had a reservation with us last night..." Both people failed to notice the "Ratby" bit, even when I said it so clearly, and said "yes we were there". Then when asked where exactly, one said "Well, we booked at the Bull's Head in Newtown Linford, but when we got there we couldn't find it (I was able to tell them that it changed name 8 years ago), so we went to the Bull's Head at Woodhouse Eaves." The other said "You know, on the A47", which is about 6 miles away in Leicester Forest West. Unfortunately, I think there are 11 Bull's Heads in Leicestershire, and half of them are within a 12 mile radius
Slightly tangentially, at work, I have had no end of incorrect reservations, e.g. someone books at this Bull's Head, then turns up for dinner at another, because 118118 or whoever has given them the wrong number. One night we had two bookings that didn't show, so I called them the next day saying "Hello, this is the Bull's Head at Ratby; you had a reservation with us last night..." Both people failed to notice the "Ratby" bit, even when I said it so clearly, and said "yes we were there". Then when asked where exactly, one said "Well, we booked at the Bull's Head in Newtown Linford, but when we got there we couldn't find it (I was able to tell them that it changed name 8 years ago), so we went to the Bull's Head at Woodhouse Eaves." The other said "You know, on the A47", which is about 6 miles away in Leicester Forest West. Unfortunately, I think there are 11 Bull's Heads in Leicestershire, and half of them are within a 12 mile radius
[Phil] Well, with a bit of creative yet inexpensive sign alterage you could easily become the Bull Shed. That should stop the problem. Alternatively, add a sauna at the back and call your place The Bull's Head of Steam.
[rab] Unfortunately, we were not internet enabled when our water was leaking into the flat below and we didn't know the number for a plumber that had been suggested to us...
Sorry, that should have been directed at [Phil]
Persistent Salesmen
[penelope] We need a new game where the object is to supply a witty, brief and above all final response to "Why not [discuss my proposal now]?"
[Sierra Mike] Perhaps with each person giving an answer to the previous person's salesman's line, then supplying a new salesman's line of their own?
[Raak] That would work too, though I was just thinking about supplying alternatives for penelope to use after the Why not? was delivered. Sort of along the lines of Mad Magazine's old Snappy Answers to Stupid Questions feature. One question, many one-liner responses.
[rab] Commiserations - it's a shame that necessity forces one to be ripped off :-(
end games
To make way for the new game I think it is time for Cancel Mansell to move along, ready for Why Not? or something new.
I dread to use the 'C' word in September but the school sent out the Christmas catalogue yesterday, and the milkman dropped off this morning a leaflet for spring and Christmas flowering bulbs.
Is it proper or just morbid bad taste omn my part for wanting to see how the hamster from Top Gear had a near fatal crash. Hopefully he will recover soon and take his revenge out on a few more caravans.
It's an 'x' word
[Inkers] I have already planted bulbs in pots for next spring and bought xmas cards (from the V&A, online, before they run out, which is what happened last year).
[pen] Very impressed and also quite jealous.
Can I also just say about the two people that heckled John Reid, it was a set up. A member of the cabinet going to an invited audience of muslims, security would have been tight. But two well known radicals simply walk in unnoticed!! pah!! It's a government conspiracy I tell you.
X marks late September
Today I saw a pub advertising Christmas meals today. That is, you could go in today and have a Christmas meal. WIth free bottle of champagne (which I think must mean a one-glass quarter bottle of white fizz).
I'm so happy to be moving to a pub that does not do food. Christmas will not be a word that makes me shake with fear this year :-)
[Phil] As I recall, you didn't do food when I came in anyway! :-)
[phil] A pub that has no food? Not even chicken in the basket! But I presume you will still be working on Christmas Day.
I stopped in at a pub at Kinlochleven that had two entrances; one for walkers and one for... I don't know, everyone else, I suppose. I arrived by car but I as was I scruffy and dressed for walking I went in the former as a courtesy to what I supposed was their intent. Inside I discovered that not only were the two parts of the pub completely separate, with the walker section gulag-spare, but they even served different food! I ordered some manner of pie and got some hideous little prepackaged thing that had been semithawed in the microwave, which I would have regarded as inedible even had it been warmed up properly. The thing is, it appeared to be quite a different thing from what they were serving in what I could see in the remainder of the place. I concluded that they absolutely despised walkers but couldn't exclude them, so they decided to quarantine them and make them miserable in the hopes of developing a reputation that would repel as many of them as possible.
[Inkspot] To take that suggestion perhaps more seriously than it was intended, if it was a setup, it seems to me a quite benign one. After all, it appears the two hecklers were real radical Islamists, not stooges, and if the authorities troubled themselves no further than making sure no bombs got in, well, freedom of speech and all that. It's hardly a dirty trick to let them condemn themselves out of their own mouths in front of the press. What are they going to do, complain that they weren't suppressed?
Come and see the tolerance inherent in the system! Help, help, I'm not bein' repressed!
In letting them in they were certain to go off at anytime, for the speaker it did not matter, he needed a headline otherwise it would have been just another day at the office. Suddenly a small paragraph inside became front page news. It was manipulation by of events for a desired outcome.
[Uncle K] That's just saturday lunchtime :-)
[Inky] Indeed, that is the current status of the place. No children permitted either, and the place is packed! If there is no tradition of that pub opening on Christmas Day, then this year I will have the day off. Next year wil be different. If it does currently open, I'll do it for 2 hours.
[Dan] Is that the pub that overlooks the water, with the Atlas brewery behind it? If so, I was there 2 and a bit years ago, and although we had to leave our packs in the lobby, or outside, they were perfectly welcoming, and had some wonderful beer from the aforementioned brewery. The toasties were smashing !
[Inky] Indeed, that is the current status of the place. No children permitted either, and the place is packed! If there is no tradition of that pub opening on Christmas Day, then this year I will have the day off. Next year wil be different. If it does currently open, I'll do it for 2 hours.
[Dan] Is that the pub that overlooks the water, with the Atlas brewery behind it? If so, I was there 2 and a bit years ago, and although we had to leave our packs in the lobby, or outside, they were perfectly welcoming, and had some wonderful beer from the aforementioned brewery. The toasties were smashing !
[Inkspot] I am, perhaps wrongly, getting the impression that you find something wrong with that. But everything people do is "manipulation of events for a desired outcome". Or in less tendentious language, acting to achieve their goals. Nothing dishonest happened: the hecklers hanged themselves with their own rope (I hope -- but I haven't followed subsequent reports to see what mainstream Muslim reaction has been). If indeed there was a nod and a wink to the security services to flagrantly let the opposition be heard, I don't have a problem with that.
[Phil] I dinna think so. They didn't have a lobby for one thing, and for another, like I said, walkers were shunted into a room that felt like a holding pen for undesirables (which on reflection is what it was), and there was no brewery attached. It was some time ago. In fairness it was one of only two less than delightful pub experiences I had in Scotland, and as for the other, well, I'll frame it in the form of retrospectively self-evident advice: If you're at the Fringe and you find a pub that miraculously isn't jammed with people, it is safe to assume that there's a good reason for it. My own fault in both cases, of course, as it's really not difficult to simply leave places that don't feel right.
[Dan] I have a wonderful memory of walking into Kinlochleven from Glencoe. It was not long after midday and there was only one "PH" marked on the map. As we rounded the corner, the pub hove into view. I believe it was called The Anchor, and a dingier, drabber looking place it would be hard to imagine in such a picturesque location. A youngish bloke (20 or thereabouts) was walking the other way, obviously a local (due to lack or rucksack etc), so I shouted across the street "Is that the only pub in town?". The look of horror on his face will stay with me for many years as he replied "Hell, no! No unless ye like trippin over pushchairs and shit! Carry on to the river, you'll be fine there."
In the phamaceutical product naming stakes I thought it was difficult for anusol to be trumped (so to speak), but it appears to have been done.
And on the topic in hand [Dan] Can you remember which pub in Edinburgh that was?
[rab] Slightly odd thing just now. The site displayed without any CSS (just a bulleted list of games). A reload got it back as normal. I don't know if this was just a momentary glitch or something you'd want to know about.
If it happens again, look at the page source and see if the css is actually being loaded in the html (by a LINK tag).
[rab] Unfortunately not. I'm certain it was in Rose Street, or just off, but that's about it. It had a "locals only" vibe which we were too oblivious to pick up on at first.
pharmaceutical names
[Rab]That stuff has been around for years! Which probably explains the name. Can you see a new product coming out with a name like that? At least you can't have any doubts about what it's for.
[snorgle] Although, oddly, its makers do, referring euphemistically to "feminine itching". That sounds to me like some sort of marital complaint.
[Dan] Oh well, it's probably been overhauled and turned into vertical drinking bar now. Not sure which I prefer really.
[feminine itch] What does this sentence mean: "Every woman shares in the dilemma of those nagging feminine problems."?
(Projoy) Quite. What dilemma? But I can't see much wrong with the product name. It's certainly not in the same league as Anusol. *(creases up)*
[Projoy] I don't care what the sentence means, but I loathe the use of those "those" words in advertising and journalism.
[Phil] You've got to admit, it would be worse with "them" instead.
[Darren] As a Geordie (originally), I think "them" would be much more fun.
Shouldn't it be 'they', to aim at the Glaswegian market?
Done that list yet?
Next from their range of products is Lipusol for "Every man shares in the dilema of those nagging feminine problems". *scarpers quickly to the shed*
*lays a trail of gunpowder from the back door to the shed and puts a match to it*
[INJ] Indeed, for the cowboy market, it should be "them thar"
If you wanted to be really misogynistic, how about "you" instead?
[Phil] Cowboys have nagging feminine problems?
You've not seen Brokeback Mountain? Actually, I haven't, so I've no idea if that joke works or not
[Nea] They became cowboys to escape problems with nagging females. (Mine's the storm cape and stetson hanging by the door, thanks.)
One cape required
[INJ]You'll be in trouble now, I hope you have better blast doors on your shed than I did.
Should you not be needing that cape later , if it could be passed over here with a pair of size wellies as the grey storm clouds in the sky over the Brunel Tower, the car park is already flooded.
Should you not be needing that cape later , if it could be passed over here with a pair of size wellies as the grey storm clouds in the sky over the Brunel Tower, the car park is already flooded.
Finally after all this time reached I have managed to become Top Trader at Celebdaq. The only thing being had to use my BBC login of Cleddau, it is on the banks of that fair waterway that I was raised.
[Inkspot] Ah - that's what you look like!
[Inkers] You credited evil_edna! I'm touched, and you have attained a higher ranking than I ever did - my best was No. 4, by accident, once. *Blushes* You have learned well, glasshopper.
Found out today that I didn't get the new job I'd gone for, but, hey - new car and new flat - two out of three's not bad!
Commiserations once, and congrats twice then, Uncle K.
[Phil] Ta! Of course, the new job would have helped to pay for the other two...
Hurrah for Uncle!
[UK] How did the play go? Bad luck about the job, sure there's another (and hopefully better) one waiting for you.
Reminder
Which reminds me - congrats to Nadia, and thanks for the cheque.
[Lib] Play went astonishingly well, as it happens... no major cock-ups anywhere, and I managed to learn all of my lines in time for the opening night (which helps)! Still a little puzzled about the job, as I felt I gave a cracking interview, I fulfilled the criteria, and I'm a redeployment case, so I get preferential treatment (supposedly). I'm going to take them up on their offer of a feedback interview - I'm hoping that it's because they decided to employ two people who were excellent, rather than not employing me because I was crap.
someone say something!
[UK] Congrats. And the right job will come up at the right time :o)
In other news, I have resumed salsa dancing after a 7 week break during the summer, and I'm pleased to report I haven't lost my mojo. The plan is to do it at least twice a week, sometimes three times a week over the winter. I may need encouragement. I most certainly will need new black leather dancing shoes, as my pale suede ones just look odd in the winter :o)
In other news, I have resumed salsa dancing after a 7 week break during the summer, and I'm pleased to report I haven't lost my mojo. The plan is to do it at least twice a week, sometimes three times a week over the winter. I may need encouragement. I most certainly will need new black leather dancing shoes, as my pale suede ones just look odd in the winter :o)
*is still trying to work out what rab meant in his last post - even tho' it's none of her business*
not saying nuthin'
I should not smile at the misfortune at others but the goings on between the England RFU and Saracens. You have the RFU trying to tell the team which position to play him so he is ready for the national side. Someone payed a kings ransom for Andy Farrell as an instant fix, but is quickly turning into a farce.
Good morning everyone. Good weekend?
[pen] Not bad, thanks, except my team lost twice, including a shut-out on Sunday. re - what you were saying about job prospects... I'm now following up an internal vacancy as a junior press officer.
[pen] Weekend was tolerable considering I had to work from 11am till midnight friday, saturday and sunday. Thankfully have today off to recover/revise. How was yours, pen?
[pen] Owwww, my head hurts - hence, yes I had a great weekend, thanks.
[Lib] Full, thanks! Thursday night = new salsa class (made my legs ache - a good thing); Friday night - party in a bar in Soho to celebrate west end transfer of a play directed by a 'friend' of mine (pay £6 on the door to buy expensive drinks in a room full of people all trying to work out who's famous); Saturday - Tennyson Society service in Poets' Corner, Westminster Abbey, followed by lunch and a visit to the Dickens (yawn) museum on Doughty Street; then out for a chinese meal with the Bloke; Sunday - light shopping in Ealing, and my second parking ticket of the week :o(. I am not going out this week!
[pen] Going out just causes more problems than it solves, in my experience. And oddly, I've just remembered we have nothing defrosted for dinner. Curses.
[nights] I have a blog called : "So What Are you Having For Tea Tonight?" which is meant to address that problem, but I haven't written enough of it yet.
[nights] Can't you just stick something in the microwave? Or get a takeaway.
[penelope] Was the Ealing trip to seek out/purchase a light? Or do you have varying degrees of shopping gravitas? And you should avoid parking illegally, IMHO.
[Phil] We didn't KNOW we were parking illegally! The sign was tiny, high up and camouflaged against adjacent scaffolding. And I have various degrees of shopping gravitas. In fact, I bought a test-piece of cookware - a black Columbian earthenware pot that can be used on the hob or in the oven. I have to 'season' (or do I mean 'temper'?) it tonight by boiling water in it for half an hour in the oven, to stop it being so porous. Lord knows how that works.
[pen] I do sincerely hope you didn't get the two parking tickets at the same place ;-) Seriously though, aren't there yellow lines and so on in your area?
Phil, I'm not daft. I got one last weekend in Notting Hill due to lying naked on a couch still having a very expensive facial at the time the parking ticket ran out, and another in Ealing on Sunday due to parking on a single yellow line on a Sunday afternoon. Anywhere other than London, Sunday afternoons on a single yellow would be OK, wouldn't they?
four
Do I spy candles on the MC5 logo? *brings out a cake *
Since the parking came under the council here the interpretations have become very strict and a lucrative income stream. The FM manager of our office is going to bring in a clamping policy for unauthorised parking in allocated staff areas, I can see trouble ahead. Our council members tend to see themselves above such policies, no smoking in Civic Buildings inc meeting rooms and private offices seems not to apply to them only officers and members of the public.
Since the parking came under the council here the interpretations have become very strict and a lucrative income stream. The FM manager of our office is going to bring in a clamping policy for unauthorised parking in allocated staff areas, I can see trouble ahead. Our council members tend to see themselves above such policies, no smoking in Civic Buildings inc meeting rooms and private offices seems not to apply to them only officers and members of the public.
Fork handles
The number of candles may be misleading - the site doesn't celebrate its 4th birthday until Jan 16th.
I, on the other hand, ...
Candles
I think someone has vandalised your menora rab. :o) MHROTD.
Happy Birthday rab
Drat - just missed saying it on the day itself
Unkempt
[Sierra, Chalky] Thanks.
More flat-based excitement this morning. The electricity went off during Mrs-rab-to-be's shower, which I thought was just a generic power cut since no fuses had tripped in our fusebox. A note of warning was sounded by the fact that our neighbour across the way wasn't experiencing any trouble, nor had anyone else called Scottish Power when I phoned them. The chap's been out and I'm told that the supply cable from the distribution box in the stairwell to our fuse box exploded as a result of too much load imposed on it by our shower (of all things - I would have thought the oven were more power-hungry). We were lucky it didn't cause a fire or disrupt the whole street's supply. Apparently it's all due to the fact that the previous owners (or their electrician) didn't inform Scottish Power that extra capacity would be needed when they did up the bathroom. There's quite a lot of things they didn't seem to do well, humph.
birthday shower
[Rab] Happy Belated Birthday... and commis for your water/electricity woes. You'll just have to boil up a few pans of water and take a bath together :o)
(rab) I think showers take 10 kW, or about 40 amps, which is a lot. With a 10-kW oven you could start a cottage indusry smelting iron ore.
Exploding Cables
[rab] They didn't find the homonculus you made from bits of dead bodies in the cellar or the high-voltage equipment needed to reanimate it then?
Good to see that the legendary Scottish parsimony extends to the current carrying capacity of domestic wiring. "Just enough and nae morrrrrrre, d'ye ken?".
Good to see that the legendary Scottish parsimony extends to the current carrying capacity of domestic wiring. "Just enough and nae morrrrrrre, d'ye ken?".
[Rosie] Yes, 40A would cause quite a glow...
[SMike] Nice theory, but I suspect it has more to do with the fact that the electrics probably haven't been upgraded since they were installed. I estimate that this would have been around about the time that electricity was invented, given that the block was erected in 1897.
1897
Presumably the wiring spec was predicated on the widespread use of the household Wimshurst Machine to make up the difference for those high-current spinning wheels and so forth.
High amperage
In America the current per watt would be at least twice what it is here and the said shower would take nearly 90 amps. The wires would need to have four times the cross-sectional area. I suppose they know this. It does have the advantage of being safer, at least in one aspect.
Hi all (and everyone else)
Brief and forced hiatus there. Nothing to worry about, moving up to university for my second year. All very exciting. Now living in the delightful town of Royal Leamington Spa, and after around a month there's finally internet in our household.
[Tuj]Good to see you back, and good luck and enjoy your second year
If I wanted to find out about Nail Fungus, I can't think of a better place to go.
Tuj] Welcome back too. Whereabouts in Leam? I grew up in Warwick and went to school in Leam. One of the first places outside the big cities to have curry houses back in the early 70s, doncherknow.
Names
I hope this won't offend, but I would like to know how to pronounce the names "Tuj" and "Irouléguy" properly. Please excuse if this breaks etiquette in some way.
[Sierra] ih-RULE-eh-GEE (hard G, primary stress on RULE). I'm not sure about Tuj but most people at pilgs say "Tudge" (thus revealing that we talk about you non-attendees behind your backs).
[SM] Yes, I'd go "tudge", though oddly most people I'd talk to who've seen the name have the first instinct "toozh" (vowel like "smooth" consonant like "pleasure". Irouléguy's a good one to learn - daft as I am I initially thought it was a bizarre variation on naming himself "I rule" Guy.
[Darren] Oh dear oh dear. I'd hate to think what.
[Irouléguy] South Leam, Brunswick Street. Lovely part of the world, though I haven't tested any curries yet.
[Inkers] Thanks very much!
[Darren] Oh dear oh dear. I'd hate to think what.
[Irouléguy] South Leam, Brunswick Street. Lovely part of the world, though I haven't tested any curries yet.
[Inkers] Thanks very much!
SM] Mine's from a French appelation controllée.
Tuj] It wasn't daft. A lot of people thought that until I got the chance to explain it at a pilg.
There's a number of decent pubs on the Radford Road, but I don't know south Leam otherwise - I did most of my drinking in town and north Leam. If you get over to Warwick, the Zetland in Church Street is a lovely boozer.
Tuj] It wasn't daft. A lot of people thought that until I got the chance to explain it at a pilg.
There's a number of decent pubs on the Radford Road, but I don't know south Leam otherwise - I did most of my drinking in town and north Leam. If you get over to Warwick, the Zetland in Church Street is a lovely boozer.
[Irouléguy] I may have been the only person to recognize the AC, and guess the pronunciation :-) I'd be interested to know if anyone else did.
BANG!
What I did at the weekend. Recording thanks to Pave's cameraphone.
[Phil, Irouléguy] I didn't spot the appelation controllée; I don't even know what one is.
[Knobbly] It's a system the French use for wines which ensures that only wine made in a particular place (or in a particular way) can bear a particular name. The most famous example is Champagne.
[Tuj] I would automatically say Toozh, although there's a vague sense in my head that it could be a to-eye (but not quite like that, sort of using the Russian "bI" sound, where the "j" implies palatisation.
Er, in fact like the second person in Russian.)
[Phil] I based an AVMA on I's AC quite a while ago. I'm quite sure INJ knows it as well.
[tuj] Toodge, in my head.
[tuj] Toodge, in my head.
jiff
I read 'tuj' as tudge. But then again everyone knows I talk funny.
twee
Iroul's AC I vaguely recognised, though I don't think I've ever drunk it. 'Tuj' is 'tudge' for me (unless it's 'tüy')
(Néa) Real Player comes up but just sits there, doing nothing. Any ideas? (flerdle) No funnier than me because that's how I say it.
Names
[Tuj, Irouléguy] Thanks. Sorry if that seemed dense. I had been hearing them as "Toy" and "I rule a gye". Thank Jod we didn't meet yet.
[Néa] It works for me :-)
Crikey, three arbitrary letters and so many different pronunciations! And is it just me who thinks Néa's sounds like someone spitting?
(Néa) It does. I'm going to play it all night. You are the Scandinavian Charlotte Green. (I hope that means something to you). :-)
(Tuj) Arbitrary? You mean your real name is Herbert?
[Rosie] As in Spotty Herbert? Not Herbert but yes to the arbitrary. If you sift some of the conversations we've had about name anagramming I'm sure you could find what it is.
Charlotte Green is me!
[Rosie] It does, and I'm deeply touched :-)
Herbaceous
(Tuj) There's a difference between being a herbert and being a Herbert. Fain would I suggest you were the former, or now, the latter, even. Where are these conversations? Are they in Another Place, or Mc-Eye-oss, as I call it?
Nice to see MC5 back!
[Darren] Indeed!
[Rosie, belatedly] I believe somewhere far up this very page, though probably on the Scots Ios also.
[Rosie, belatedly] I believe somewhere far up this very page, though probably on the Scots Ios also.
Out(r)age
Sorry for the outages. The server suffers mysterious reboots, up to two a day, and for no reason we can discern. Usually it comes back up again automatically, but sometimes it doesn't - usually when the person with the reboot password is on holiday or something. That's what happened this weekend. We're trying to arrange a test of the hardware (which we don't physically have access to - in fact, I'm not even sure I know where it is) to see what's going on.
Rats!
That was me, by the way.
[rab] I think we knew that - and I had thought to myself rab wouldn't be so careless as to name himself 'rat' so it must be some sort of subtle post-modern ironic thingy equating to that saying 'the first rat to desert the sinking ship' - not that MC5 is, or even was, a sinking ship, I hasten to add, but it just might have seemed like that to you and others who expend their valuable time keeping it all afloat so when it went down, so to speak, you may have imagined that it looked as though you were sort of deserting it, in a manner of speaking ... Is that too too much? Perhaps I ought to shut up now ....
(Chalky) Do you realise that you have just posted the longest sentence in the Morniverse? Would it be indelicate to suggest a degree of insobriety?
[Rosie] I'd venture, before we make any such suggestion regarding Chalky, to suggest that we first need to establish beyond what I can only call a reasonable level of doubt that she has indeed posted what you have called the very longest sentence that has been seen in the Morniverse, or whether, by virtue of an insufficiency of time, you have been unable to research for yourself the quite startlingly good game we played quite some time ago now - but there it is: the history of the great game as played online becomes lengthier by the day - of a variant of MC, which is most commonly referred to as Long-Winded Crescent, having established which, and assuming our conclusion to be the latter, I could do no better, I feel, than to refer you to that most masterly achievement - in particular the contributions made by the much-missed Watty - and perhaps even, were it not for a want of time on my own part, suggest a new round of the same.
[Rosie] Not so m'dear - just a feeble attempt at stream-of-consciousness-posting. Silly stuff really :-)
[Projoy] Excellent idea
[Projoy] Excellent idea
Prolixity
(Projoy) Brilliant Victoriana! L-WC must be before my timeI'll believe you.:-) here - I'll look it up. (Chalky) Mm, no spelling mistakes, so
What happened there? "I'll believe you. :-)" should be at the end, not stuck in the middle. Do you believe me?
Maybe it just jumpsTuj
Make ways
[Projoy]LWMC came to an end before I can across !York but was still much talked about, and would welcome a revival the only black cloud on the horizon is I feel that such a game that requires forethought and patience to create the moves I wonder whether todays players have the stamina. The games that appear to be popular are those that can be played with a quick visit play a short one liner or couple of games then off elsewhere. Games that require thought are few, I hazard the when AVMA clue disappears off the page and goes off the page into the second page involvement drops off to one or two plus the setter. I would very much like to be wrong and for LWMC to be a success played by more than three players after the first week. "MC Works on the Tracks" can be killed off to make way.
Anyone got a link into the archives for it, then?
You can post links on this site, you know.
How curious; Tuj's link didn't work and after I posted mine it did. Anyway, them's the ones.
Hmmm. Might I suggest this game be revived after NaNoWriMo finishes, since some of us will be directing our wordiness in that direction for the month of November?
[flerdle] You must have caught Tuj's link in the few seconds I was converting it from just being written as plain text to a proper link, and getting it wrong in the process...
[rab] ahhhhh, i see...
[rab] You mean you sit there behind my computer checking everything that everyone writes and mending it where necessary? How diligent!
[rab] Hmm, how I forgot to put that as a link I'm not sure. I think I was just excited about visiting the !Yorkives again. Thanks for the fix.
Anyway, I think I was thinking of flerdle's second link primarily. But I'd back Darren's suggestion, as we can also bring games to a more natural end.
Anyway, I think I was thinking of flerdle's second link primarily. But I'd back Darren's suggestion, as we can also bring games to a more natural end.
I saw hundreds of real, live Greengrocer's Apostrophe's in the greengrocer's at lunch time today. There is no danger of extinction there.
Greengrocer's Apostrophe's
[penelope] I understand what you mean by the term, but how did the phenomenon come to be called that? Is it a British phrase?
British phrase's
(SM) As far as I know it is. Are you from the America's or possibly The Antipode's? It arose because greengrocers often advertise their wares with the extraneous apostrophe, thus: Tomato's, potato's, cabbage's etc etc. Simple as that.
Continuing my tour of traditional British establishments this evening, some colleagues and I ventured out to play Bingo at a big Bingo Hall in Slough (not far from Slough Bus Station which features in the opening credits of 'The Office'). We got hostile stares from the regulars... we played two games (£5 very quickly spent, in my opinion, but we could have picked up £15,000 on one national game) and left to go mand find something to eat. But I have to say, the staff who explained how to play before we went in were great, and gracefully accepted our apologies for calling out two false alarms when we thought we'd won, as we made out early exit. It's a bloody complicated game, Bingo. Next office outing is either horse racing, or to the dogs in Walthamstow ;o)
(pen) Bingo? The dogs? Can't fool me - you're posh, really, aren't you? :-)
[Rosie] Coming to that conclusion, yes :o(
Clocking in
Just posting this to see what time the server thinks it is.
mild gloat
I'm very happy and wanted a little gloat. Hope you'll excuse me! I was given a diamond this morning. Necklace, not ring (would be too soon I feel). Very small, but its a diamond! No one has ever given me one before! No occasion. Just cos he loves me. Its nice to be loved. I'll shut up now.
sparkling
How could you be so heartless to accept it, Lib? That's probably the poor bloke's drinking-money-for-a-week now suspended from your neck. Soppy blokes - honestly!
(Dujon) Maybe your drinking money for a week. I wouldn't presume to know. :-)
[Lib] I am not so chauvenistic. Congratulations, your first girl's best friend.
MCIOS down
Can't get anything to go in though Preview works. Anybody know what's happened?
It's down now. I'm not sure what the problem is. Disk error, perhaps. This may be serious. I'm connected but there's not much I can do. I'll let you know.
Curiouser-er
That was really odd. The disk was in a peculiar state and very few commands functioned. Notably, I couldn't reboot it using any of the usual commands. (It's in a locked machine room at a colocation facility three miles from here and it's after 11:00 at night so pushing the button was not an option.) I did manage to force it into a reboot state somewhat more directly, and it came back promptly with everything seemingly fine. I'm doing an unscheduled backup now since today's didn't have a chance to occur at its normal time.
MCIOS
(Dan) Working OK now. Thanks, as ever.
Blue skies
Cold snap this morning with ice on the car, cross my fingers that this will remind the grass to stop growing.
Brrrr
I'm glad there was a frost today too. I'm hoping it'll make the slugs that terrorise my rabbit and eat her food go away. I've tried beertraps but the rabbit knocks them over and drinks the beer!
Cold snap
It's distinctly cold here in sunny Bath too - but then, this is why November is my favourite month!
Dodgy climatology
(nights) Dec, Jan, Feb and March are all colder than Nov, the last two sunnier as well.
ah but ... those particular months aren't adorned with spectacular autumnal colours. I'm with nights on this one.
Early November is my M's birthday... and since my father died, she and I have celebrated it by taking a city holiday to do the galleries and museums - Venice, Florence, Rome - and this year, Paris. On Wednesday for five days. I like November too :oD
Ooh, Paris in November. Sounds amazing. Have a magnificent time. After my exam I'm going to a health spa with my Mum, and she's paying! Hurrah! Send a postcard to the crescent if you can!
Autumn leaves
(Chalky) Yeah, OK, but it's still pretty well all green here ATM. Most leaves have hardly changed colour let alone fallen off the trees, probably due to the very warm and rather wet Sept/Oct. Climatological analysis shows that we should start trying to get used to this sort of thing.
I'm really going to miss Autumn.
Don't worry, nights, you'll get over her. Change your working hours to something a little more sociable and you'll find someone else in no time.
Chortle, chortle.
* hibernates for the next 4 months *
*decides she's done the "I hate the darkness" spiel sufficiently often for people to be as tired of it as she is of the dark*
Darkness
Talking of darkness, there was apparently a major power blackout across Europe last night, centred on Cologne in Germany. Given that's precisely where I was at the time, and furthermore, that I returned on a 10am flight with only 30mins delay, and only found out about it once I'd got back to the UK suggests either that I am, truly, the least observant person the world has ever seen, that the Germans know how to handle a crisis, or that I'm actually going mad. I shudder to think what effect such an event would have had on British transportation.
oh to be migratory
I'd send you the extra daylight I've got from all this daylight saving thing down here, but I think you'd have to come and get it yourselves, as it sort of deteriorates in the post. Only nat has taken up the offer so far, but I'm sure I could find some extra hammocks somewhere if need be. And Pounds (Euros etc) can buy a lot of Ozzie Dollas.
(rab) The power cut was attributed in some places to the cold weather, which is nonsense, and people just jumping on the Global Warming bandwagon. Don't forget that all departures from average of more than one microkelvin are caused by Global Warming and on this account we should be Very Afraid. From what you say the power cut was not as widespread as media reports suggested. Well, I never!
Hot under the collar
[rab] Yes, it was even reported here in a few pars of my local paper. 30 minutes downtime - THE END OF THE WORLD IS NIGH. Mind you I wouldn't like to have been stuck in a lift for that length of time. Kudos to the bloke/sheila who hit the button to get it all on line again.
[Rosie] I love it when journalist highlight the fact that something is the hottest/coldest since 1912 (or summat). I love it even more when they start averaging averages. Aargh.
[Rosie] I love it when journalist highlight the fact that something is the hottest/coldest since 1912 (or summat). I love it even more when they start averaging averages. Aargh.
(Dujon) Nothing average about November here so far; 6 consecutive sunny days, almost unheard of and well over half the month's normal meagre ration. It's all horizontal, of course, making driving impossible in certain directions and furthermore, shines in my window, waking me up far too early and showing up all the dust. But you can see the sky at night, which is great. Unbelievably (to most) there is still a Drought Order in East Surrey even though it's been pretty wet recently because the water has not yet replenished the aquifers. It won't have done, because the deficit was huge.
Hmmm....
According to the only report I can find that mentions it, the power cut was at about 10pm CET and lasted about half an hour. I think this would have been as I was walking back to my hotel from a concert - but even then I think I would have noticed an absence of street lighting... How very curious,
Greengrocer's Apostrophe's
Not exactly apropos but I thought you might be amused by a notice I saw in the window of my local Costcutters, thus:
"Get your freshly roasted chicken sold here".
"Get your freshly roasted chicken sold here".
Not quite what I meant
(Kim) Similarly, in Whitehorse Road, Croydon, there are notices informing us of the presence of "Traffic Enforcement Cameras" which seem to be saying "There WILL be traffic; we will enforce it; Don't you DARE not drive along this road. If you turn off down Gloucester Road we'll 'ave you." The funny thing is that there are no speed cameras, not that it makes much difference what with the parked cars, buses, traffic lights and pizza delivery boys with their blithe incompetence.
You could ask him over
Apologies
...for spurious entries - am sidegrading some stuff elsewhere on the server and want to make sure this site is unaffected.
Just out of interest, why is there a page that doesn't convey much information about the site on www.rab.org.uk? It's as if you don't want to let people in who don't think to add '/mc' on the end.
Front page
(i) Time; (ii) Googling my real name finds the front page and I'm not keen on advertising to my bosses how much time I spend on such frivolity.
Morning everyone. Lack of chat. What's the state of play?
"today we have stating of play .."
Hi pen :-)
OK here goes:
Banter Game - predict it will burst into activity now you've asked the question
Regurgitated Cheddars - disappearing up its own jacksy [as per usual] although Kim's recent contribution may spawn some interesting responses
AVMA Take 2 - Clever Raak has just slipped in there and beaten Irouléguy to the correct answer. Looks set for a new challenge so a possible frenzy of posting in the next 24 hours?
Cleri Who's Who - trundling along nicely. Time for someone to introduce a new one. That might be me if I get there in time.
Pea & Honey Recipes - is just awaiting a killer last line on the latest ditty.
Each Move Must Consist Of .. - zut alors!
AVMA PART 2 - has had a record number of entries since the First of November. That's because we all love telling lies.
MC Works On The Tracks - has gone very quiet. Perhaps there's a power failure.
The Obligatory Limericks - yay! Is about to launch into a classic cartoons fest. Hope everyone joins in. :-)
Concerning Torments - Pill Weng Lay
OK here goes:
Banter Game - predict it will burst into activity now you've asked the question
Regurgitated Cheddars - disappearing up its own jacksy [as per usual] although Kim's recent contribution may spawn some interesting responses
AVMA Take 2 - Clever Raak has just slipped in there and beaten Irouléguy to the correct answer. Looks set for a new challenge so a possible frenzy of posting in the next 24 hours?
Cleri Who's Who - trundling along nicely. Time for someone to introduce a new one. That might be me if I get there in time.
Pea & Honey Recipes - is just awaiting a killer last line on the latest ditty.
Each Move Must Consist Of .. - zut alors!
AVMA PART 2 - has had a record number of entries since the First of November. That's because we all love telling lies.
MC Works On The Tracks - has gone very quiet. Perhaps there's a power failure.
The Obligatory Limericks - yay! Is about to launch into a classic cartoons fest. Hope everyone joins in. :-)
Concerning Torments - Pill Weng Lay
"Eleven and a half hours later"
Ah well - it seems that all the games are moving along nicely - except this one. Come on you lot! Talk to us.:-)
What do you want me to say?
(Chalky) You OK these days? I get the impression you are. :-)
[Rosie] H A P P Y B I R T H D A Y!
[and yes, thanks, I'm definitely on the mend]
[and yes, thanks, I'm definitely on the mend]
[Chalky] Good to hear.
[Rosie] Happy Birthday, young man :o)
[Chalks] Pleased to hear it - and thank you for doing the run-down. What I actually meant was 'what's the state of play in everyone's lives?' Mine's OK, Paris was great but came back with a rotten cold which has made this week miserable. I'm looking forward to a weekend at home, most of it spent lounging in bed with my laptop, and the rest perhaps grappling with some severe pruning in the garden. I am going to roast a chicken too. All welcome.
[Chalks] Pleased to hear it - and thank you for doing the run-down. What I actually meant was 'what's the state of play in everyone's lives?' Mine's OK, Paris was great but came back with a rotten cold which has made this week miserable. I'm looking forward to a weekend at home, most of it spent lounging in bed with my laptop, and the rest perhaps grappling with some severe pruning in the garden. I am going to roast a chicken too. All welcome.
[pen] Ouch. Hope you have a relaxing, restorative weekend. I'm still doing the study, not always successfully; saw the "Earth from the Air" exhibition last weekend (fabulous), as well as wandered around St Kilda (can anyone say "cake shops"?), bought a hat, looked at Luna Park but didn't go on any rides because it costs $7 a pop; and turned 30 for the sixth time. There were around 7 small hailstorms on Tuesday. I am growing peas, silverbeet and tomatoes. Apart from that, not much is happenning. OH, except that nat arrives on Monday, if she survives Syderney.
[flerdle and pen] Thanks. And sorry pen - I was being a bit facetious mainly because I had nothing of interest to say. Although .. I suppose I could have bored everyone rigid with tales of hospital procedures, ill-behaved sixteen year olds, cars that die on the dual carriageway because the alternator has packed in, etc etc. Am also looking forward to a stress-free weekend.
[Rosie] Happy Birthday! *raises glass*
[Chalks] Glad you're on the mend. Sixteen year olds are quite a handful so good luck with that!
As for me, well, I'm throughly fed up revising for an exam which costs seven hundred quid to take, only 30% of the people pass it, has more content than my finals did and I'm working junior doctor crazy hours. The exams in 18 days or something. And it doesn't get much better if I pass it, cos then the second part is at the end of Jan and is a day trip to London for personal humiliation. Sigh. But on the whole I'm quite happy!
[Chalks] Glad you're on the mend. Sixteen year olds are quite a handful so good luck with that!
As for me, well, I'm throughly fed up revising for an exam which costs seven hundred quid to take, only 30% of the people pass it, has more content than my finals did and I'm working junior doctor crazy hours. The exams in 18 days or something. And it doesn't get much better if I pass it, cos then the second part is at the end of Jan and is a day trip to London for personal humiliation. Sigh. But on the whole I'm quite happy!
Felicitations
(Ladies) Thank you all very much. I too raise a glass. It's embarrassing - I got presents from both my nieces. I hope they don't think I'm now some impoverished old dodderer because that's hardly the case. They're just v. nice and can say things to Uncle T that they couldn't say to Dad. (Lib) Why on earth does it cost £700 to sit an exam? Don't they want qualified people? *scratches head*.
Plonk
[Rosie] Many happies.
We had the window fitter come round to talk astragals and snib fasteners on Wednesday, should have nice new, thermally insulated and (hopefully) draught-free windows fitted at the beginning of December. We're currently trying not to get too carried away with booking our honeymoon, as it looks like it would be very easy to spend a lot of money that we won't have once the windows have been sorted, and we've got round to reversing the damage done to the flat by the previous occupants... But the boiler is fixed, at long last.
I'm also finally getting around to writing a lecture course I'm giving in January. Hopefully all this will still leave me time to do the work for and write and a paper for a suitably high-prestige journal (looking ahead to RAE next autumn). What fun.
Busy and expensive, rab. Good luck with all.
Is anyone able to explain to me why pizzas are so expensive? I've not partaken of one of these overpriced pieces of *&%^$ for years but it still puzzles me. Around my part of the woods a small pizza seems to average out around the AUD20 mark - sans delivery - (that's about £8 in UK money). Heaven only knows what a family size would be. For about AUD5 (£2) I can purchase a hearty steak sandwich including lettuce, beetroot, egg and tomato as a take-away. For the price of a pizza I could have a slap up meal and a schooner of beer at my local club.
Is anyone able to explain to me why pizzas are so expensive? I've not partaken of one of these overpriced pieces of *&%^$ for years but it still puzzles me. Around my part of the woods a small pizza seems to average out around the AUD20 mark - sans delivery - (that's about £8 in UK money). Heaven only knows what a family size would be. For about AUD5 (£2) I can purchase a hearty steak sandwich including lettuce, beetroot, egg and tomato as a take-away. For the price of a pizza I could have a slap up meal and a schooner of beer at my local club.
(Dujon) Could be that they were once fashionable and originally the sellers could charge what they liked. They are maintaining the fiction that they cost a lot to make (simply can't be true) and people fall for it. It's distressing easy to relieve people of money - I've even seen people buying bottles of water but maybe their mains supply has been cut off and dehydration, especially in our climate, is an insidious and dangerous condition to be avoided at all costs.
pizza
They're about $7 or $8 down the road, for "large" (8 slices). Possibly $10 for maximum toppings. Sounds like it's your area, Dujon.
Forgetfulness
*happybirthdays to flerdle and Rosie and then to flerdle again*
The best pizza ever
Best pizza ever was 3 euros, from a scruffy cafe in Herculano, a suburb of Naples. My mother and I had thoroughly examined the Roman ruins in the old town of Herculaneum, which was destroyed by the same volcano that did for Pompeii. However, instead of being covered with hot ash, it was covered with a mudslide, which preserved the internal decorations of the villas - I have some fab photos of the murals and wall decorations, which are still very, very clear. Anyway, we passed this cafe on the way back to the train, argued with the patron to sit inside (I think he thought we looked like we could afford to sit outside, where they add a premium to the price of your meal)and had just the freshest, tastiest, thinnest crusty pizza ever. And paid less than 10 euros for two people, with drinks.
Oooh, flerdle, another gong! Happy Birthday :o)
Oooh, flerdle, another gong! Happy Birthday :o)
(Néa) Don't quite follow that. Has flerdle had two birthdays in quick succession? Tempus fugit, certainly, but surely not that fast.
Don't laugh, these are famous last words
Is there anywhere in the Morniverse where we discuss current series of ISIHAC when they're on?
(Tuj) You naughty boy, you nicked that from Humph in tonight's show, where it had a certain resonance. It doesn't seem we actually discuss the show very much. Maybe it's just bad form to do so rather like middle-aged jazz fans not actually talking about (or even listening to) the music they're hearing but preferring to exchange jazz-related gossip, news, who's good, who's crap, who's playing where etc. The actual raison d'être for the yakking is taken for granted in both cases.
[Tuj] Some of us don't think the show is much good. The fact that I haven't actually listened to the show since before you were born is irrelevant to this observation.
There's a show?
[Rosie] Not stolen, quoted as a preface... Nice to see it wasn't just me listening! Your reasoning is pretty much what I expected... less so CdM, but then one can't argue with the old "before you were born" argument... Might as well start saying "things were better in my day" (which mind you gets by with less justification).
[SM] A popular outlet for the game of Mornington Crescent is the long-running BBC radio prgramme I'm Sorry, I Haven't A Clue. It's currently available through the BBC's listen again service, which is smashing.
[SM] A popular outlet for the game of Mornington Crescent is the long-running BBC radio prgramme I'm Sorry, I Haven't A Clue. It's currently available through the BBC's listen again service, which is smashing.
(Tuj) Parts of the show don't always work but I suspend my critical faculties, remembering that the whole thing is a kind of in-joke, like Red Dwarf or Blake's Seven. But other parts have me creased with laughter. How does CdM know how old you are? Is he your Dad or sunnink?
Blimey!
It's 14.45 here, and it's dark already - due to very heavy rainclouds, I suspect, but it's very, very gloomy for this time of day. Incidentally, I drove around the Crescent at around midnight last night. I thought I saw the ghost of Willie Rushton crossing the road in front of me.
[Rosie] Probably working off the fact I mentioned starting my second year of university not long ago. Maybe? As far as I know CdM is not my father... but you never know...
(Tuj) Ah, so you're about 20. Such bliss! (pen) Same here. I put the light on at half two, expecting the end of the world meteorologically but no, bit of rain, bit breezy, mild, boring. It's about time we had an event which I can go on and on about.
[Rosie] A good 7 months 'til I'm that venerable ;)
Terribly gloomy weather today here in the Midlands. Sitting listening to Test Match Special, ah what bliss.
Terribly gloomy weather today here in the Midlands. Sitting listening to Test Match Special, ah what bliss.
Wales Vs New Zealand
Good weather on the 5 day forecast for round here over the weekend, so will probably do a trip to Westonbirt. I'll be avoiding the Ashes and watching the second match between England and South Africa to see whether the win by England was a flash in the pan. World Cup next September and still rebuilding the team.
[Tuj] I knew your approximate age from long before that -- I think you identified yourself as 16 or 17 when you first started posting, didn't you? And I wasn't trying to make a serious "before you were born" argument. I used to listen to the show about 25 years ago, and thought it was only moderately funny. I haven't listened since, since I wasn't in radio range, and haven't bothered since these new-fangled internets came along. So my comment was supposed to be mainly tongue-in-cheek: that it is perhaps ridiculous of me to comment on the quality of the show when it is so long since I have heard it. On the other hand, nothing I have heard quoted at any of these sites actually makes me think it is any better than it used to be.
[CdM] I actually found it genuinely interesting to make such a "before you were born" statement. I have a feeling I identified myself as 14 the first time I posted... 5 years ago come April. How very very peculiar. Anyway... aren't you tempted to give it a listen from time to time?
[CdM] Odd question perhaps, but why did you get involved in the online MC sites if you don't like the show? (For what it's worth, I do like it and listen to it a lot.)
[Tuj] Genuinely interesting how? It was, as I said, meant tongue-in-cheek -- I thought it was pretty funny when I realized that it was indeed before you were born that I last listened to the show, and so I couldn't resist the chance to play the old fogey. And is it really five years since you started posting?? Wow. I definitely remember when you first showed up.
[Darren] I think we are funnier than they are. :-) (The one time I don't like these sites very much is when people simply use them as an excuse to recycle old jokes/monty python skits/etc. I think that the original humor that people create here is, at its best, really impressive.) Also, I prefer the active participation to passive listening.
[Darren] I think we are funnier than they are. :-) (The one time I don't like these sites very much is when people simply use them as an excuse to recycle old jokes/monty python skits/etc. I think that the original humor that people create here is, at its best, really impressive.) Also, I prefer the active participation to passive listening.
Ageing
I'm not trying to think how long I've been pottering around the crescent. I think its about four years.... I don't really listen to the show as I forget its on, and I don't participate much as I'm really not that amusing. But I do appreciate other people's fine wit and wisdom.
[CdM] I don't know, I'm easily pleased I guess! And I apologise profusely for whatever you remember me for, as it's a fairly safe bet it wasn't anything amusing. I'd sum up myself the same way Lib does, except a bit longer time, listen a bit more and am much less amusing.
[Tuj] Gosh Tuj, you are having a bit of a crisis of confidence, with your comments elsewhere and here. Hope you're all right. *hug* I think you're very amusing and witty. But in my opinion that's why the crescent is great. There are a lot of witty people around who all appreciate the finer puns in life, some who realise how witty they are and others who do not. All together it makes a good mix.
Am I being over sentimental today? Hmmm.
[Néa] Thanks. :-)
Off to Sydney for a week. yay, I think.
Off to Sydney for a week. yay, I think.
[Lib] No, you're being a kind sweetie, as always!
[CdM] I tend to think that ISIHAC is funnier on average than these sites, but that these sites achieve far more impressive things (like Stratford-on-Crescent). [Tuj] I remember you as being nascently witty and very mature at fourteen. Certainly more so than I was at that age. I've always been rather grateful that there was no web until I was about nineteen. God knows what gaucheness I should have committed to amber otherwise. :)
Wibble
I always feel that my attitude to the Internet must be similar to that of my grandparents to, say, television, in that since it didn't exist until I was over the age of 18, that its somehow unsuitable for minors.
[Tuj] What Projoy said.
The er, internet thingy
(rab) I think a more prevalent attitude among older people is that the Internet, far from being unsuitable for minors, is in fact suitable only for these youngsters, who are suckers for any new technology. I don't agree with this view and think the Internet has now become something extremely useful for people of all ages and you all know how old I am. One less agreeable feature it has revealed is the large number of people who cannot marshal their thoughts into a coherent written form and are frankly a bit stupid. That's the price we pay for Extreme Democracy, but it's worth it.
ISIHAC
This site is an ISIHAC spin-off and is not meant to be the live show, which is both greater and lesser than the Morniverse, as Projoy implies. For instance, I think The Game Of Mornington Crescent only works live (like Pick-up Song) and attempts to reproduce it here lack the edge of ISIHAC. But other games (and the chat) are great and much more suited to the written word.
Today's news
Saw Casino Royale in Holloway last night. Pretty good - entertaining - which is the least I'd expect. Inexplicably dizzy this morning - I think this long running cold is affecting my ears. Also got an invitation to a N Yorks cocktail party (pint of bitter with a cherry in it) to be held just before Christmas from some friends I haven't seen for months, if not years, which was lovely. And there are still three unopened packets of biscuits in the office, which is good, because I'm flat out this week. :o)
Windows
We're getting our windows installed next week.
*Disdains weak joke about computer software.*
winders
[Rab] Wonderful. Have you thought about venetian blinds?
Just remember, if it wasn't for blinds, it'd be curtains for all of us.
*groans* so you don't have to
Just remember, if it wasn't for blinds, it'd be curtains for all of us.
*groans* so you don't have to
[Rosie] I considered asking them if they'd install MacOS instead...
[pen] We're not keen on venetian blinds - currently that's what we've got in the bedroom and it's horrible. Getting curtains made instead, whee.
Blinds
[rab] Did you consider vertical blinds with a pattern of ducks on them? Then you would have duck blinds.
New windows being fitted right now! At least, I hope the new ones fit in the hole that's just been opened...
Nice new windows, yay! More coming on Monday.
Hurrah!
Although I'm a bit concerned about the weather forecast...
Pardon me for barging in like this, but thought I'd mention that MCiOS is down and will remain down until at least midday today (Sunday 3 Dec). Apologies for the inconvenience.
It aten't dead yet...
Er, ignore that. Imagined this was MCiOS for some reason.
Okay, she ees back. Sorry and all that. Congratulations on the windows. Useful for defenestration purposes windows are, ye carn't defenestrate sans fenêtres y'know. By the way, given that I don't know what your place looks like, will a mental image of the flat from Shallow Grave serve? That's sort of my mental placeholder for Edinburgh dwellings.
(Oh, in case you haven't seen/can't remember it, the flat in that film was super awesome, like. Just in case it sounded like I was saying something negative because, like, I wasn't and stuff.) (Oh, and my wife made the curtains for the back of our house and they're really nice.)
Not quite as grand as the one on Shallow Grave - imagine one scaled down so as to be affordable by a junior academic and environmental consultant. I'll stick some pics up when the windows are done.
*tries the 'If it wasn't for venetian blinds, it'd be curtains for all of us' joke one more time.*
I'd don't get it. I mean, there's roller blinds as well, for one thing.
On the other hand, with a pencil and some paper you can simply draw your curtains.
Desperation
For the sake of keeping this going I hereby announce that I have had 68 mm rain this month, about three-quarters of the normal monthly total, and it's getting a bit squelchy. There's a lot more to come but fortunately up here we're unfloodable (almost).
merci buckets
Thanks Rosie. I *was* actually wondering if this December had been wetter than average or not. And I also wondered if the aquifers were filling up. If they're not, I'm going to give my hosepipe away.
new game?
Sometime just before November and NaNoWriMo, a game of Long Winded Crescent was suggested. There is a slot available ideal for the game and one which I never had the pleasure to play first time round.
The tornado in London shook people up, distance from the smoke being all, the 20 or so properties stuck in mid Wales last week did not register with the headline makers.
The tornado in London shook people up, distance from the smoke being all, the 20 or so properties stuck in mid Wales last week did not register with the headline makers.
Wetter
We're having lots of rain. I haven't measured it, but we're not supposed to have *any* rain in December. :-(
Hmmm
Fairly dry here, though I note Sunday is supposed to be wet and windy. One weather site is suggesting winds of 21mph, another (the BBC) 35mph. I note that 35kph=21mph, so I'm hoping the BBC has made a metric-imperial error...
(pen) If it carries on like this it'll be an extraordinarily wet month, but extrapolation based merely on the first week is always a bit fanciful. It has been quite a bit wetter south of London than to the north this time. The aquifers take a long time to fill up and are still quite low, I believe. When there's a long wet spell our local Bourne flows, the last time being in December 2000 when it shut the A22 at Whyteleafe for 3 weeks. There was sewage in it as well. It's hardly the Mississippi but it seemed quite beyond the local council to do anything about it.
(rab) You're in Edinburgh, are you not? 35 mph (force 7) looks about right from a look at the forecast synoptic chart. (Néa) The latest from GFS (American computer model) suggests that the lowest temperature in Stockholm in the next week will be 3°C and you will have yet more molten snow. I know that this is most unusual. The info comes from a German weather site called wetter3, oxymoronic in English if said in German, if you see what I mean.
la la la
Lovely and warm and dry here. The fruit trees are laden with ripening fruit and the vege patch is loaded. The roma tomatoes look particularly fine. Will have to bribe someone to look after it all over the Christmas-NewYear break (we're heading north, unfortunately). Any takers? Must prepare to be seriously confused about the Orstrayan Chrissie (sunny, hot, lack of snow and log fires, sun in wrong place, moon upside down, etc).
Forecast here for today (Sat.) is warm - around the 30ºC mark. We even had some rain overnight, a whole 0.7mm. It's probably already evaporated. Good luck with the fires down south, flerdle, we had our turn a couple of weeks ago. Most of them were up the mountains from me - probably 20Km or so - but we did have the choppers water bombing an outbreak just a few hundred metres away for a while. Probably an arsonist or carelessness on someone's part as we haven't had any lightning. Sydney's water supply is getting perilously low; last figures I saw indicated around the 38% level. This is not good when 4 to 5 million people rely on it. The long term prognosis for decent rain is not good so I guess we'll have to move to even tighter water restrictions. My wife, who's the gardner in our family, will not be impressed.
s/gardner/gardener.
[Dujon] The fires are a long way from the city (over in the east and northeast of the state), but the smoke is here. The forecast temperature for today in some of those areas is 39°C.
What does she grow, Dujon? I do vegetables because they're interesting and edible, and the fruit trees are just part of the place; the fruit is a bonus. If we're serious about water conservation in Aus, all dwellings should have tanks (like they used to), water-efficient appliances and greywater recycling systems, and as little lawn as possible; until then, I have little patience for complaints about water restrictions. Some of the more basic water restrictions are just common sense, such as not watering in the heat of the day. Unfortunately, renters (about 1/3 of households here) have no say in what their dwelling has, as the owners usually couldn't give a about it.
What does she grow, Dujon? I do vegetables because they're interesting and edible, and the fruit trees are just part of the place; the fruit is a bonus. If we're serious about water conservation in Aus, all dwellings should have tanks (like they used to), water-efficient appliances and greywater recycling systems, and as little lawn as possible; until then, I have little patience for complaints about water restrictions. Some of the more basic water restrictions are just common sense, such as not watering in the heat of the day. Unfortunately, renters (about 1/3 of households here) have no say in what their dwelling has, as the owners usually couldn't give a
Hidden text
fig[flerdle] For ourselves, at least as far as vegetables go, not all that much. A few tomato plants, parsley, beans and the like; no spuds or other root stock (though she's been threatened with such - by me). The only fruit we have is one of each of Lemon, Orange and Grapefruit trees. When we bought the place a few years ago they were dreadful looking excuses for citrus trees but a little TLC and they are now bearing quite well. The rest is shared between her 'garden' stuff and her interest in rearing native plants. 'Tis not unusual to have a couple of thousand tube stock around the place. These vary from seedlings to 'ready to plant' stock. Oh joy, oh joy, carting around a watering can to keep them all satisfied and looking perky. I'd love a water tank, I really would, but cost and the lack of water makes it somewhat unlikely at the moment. Still 'n all I only have a shower once a week so that should make up for some of my infelicity. ;-(
*mutter, mutter* At least they're not going on about the bloody cricket.
What cricket? oh, THAT cricket...
[Rosie] Tough luck :-)
[Dujon] Commiserations. What does she do with it all? My vege patch is only about 3 sq m, possibly extendable by another 2 sq m if I ever get the time and energy (hah!). I'm still working out what grows here and what doesn't, and what the new pests are. Earwigs love silverbeet, it seems.
[Dujon] Commiserations. What does she do with it all? My vege patch is only about 3 sq m, possibly extendable by another 2 sq m if I ever get the time and energy (hah!). I'm still working out what grows here and what doesn't, and what the new pests are. Earwigs love silverbeet, it seems.
Howzat?
[flerdle] It's amazing what can be grown in a relatively small area of a garden so I reckon the extra couple of square metres would be worth cultivating. While a couple of thousand tube stock sounds a lot, they too don't take up all that much space. The tubes sit in trays each of which holds 40 tubes and are about 400mm x 250mm (approx.).
What she does with them is a long story but, in essence, she is custodian of some of the stock of a local (Katoomba) wildplant rescue service.
Earwigs and silverbeet? It sounds an unlikely combination - isn't Mother Nature wonderful?
There you go, Rosie, not a mention of our evening noise makers.
What she does with them is a long story but, in essence, she is custodian of some of the stock of a local (Katoomba) wildplant rescue service.
Earwigs and silverbeet? It sounds an unlikely combination - isn't Mother Nature wonderful?
There you go, Rosie, not a mention of our evening noise makers.
Floating on air
937! Blimey, I see what you mean. I wonder if someone's making a killing shipping in oxygen tanks. Then again choppers may not stay afloat in that low a pressure.
Rosie, winning is only vulgar if you claim to have backed the victor with your local bookie and then refuse to buy a round. :-)
Rosie, winning is only vulgar if you claim to have backed the victor with your local bookie and then refuse to buy a round. :-)
Suck
(Dujon) It's down to 932 now. Won't go any lower though. N. Atlantic record is 915 mb, UK 925. There's a piece about Bourke NSW in today's Observer which says the current drought is on its way to turning the place into a ghost town and it all looks a bit serious. I assume this is the same regional drought that is affecting your area. We have the opposite problem here, especially in Scotland and Wales but floods occur in most winters here somewhere or other.
Saunafridge
Am I right in saying that the correct technical term for "trying to get your living room the same temperature as the bedroom" is "balancing the central heating system"? If so, or indeed, if not, does anyone know how to go about it. (Probably never achieve this completely, as living room is 2x size of said bedroom, is furthest from the boiler, and north-facing, but currently the former is too cold, and the latter too hot...).
[rab] I'm not ignoring you, I don't know the answer.
[Rosie] Yes, Bourke is about 650Km northwest from me (as the crow flies). 93% of NSW is officially drought affected. The remaining 7% would be the northeast - coastal strip - of the state which is always much wetter than the rest (there are some beautiful rainforest areas in that region).
Bourke is a genuine outback town and within that classification is fairly big - pop. around 4500 (though this includes outlying residents in a 40-odd thousand square kilometre shire area). There's a bit about the place, and some very basic weather stats, here.
[Rosie] Yes, Bourke is about 650Km northwest from me (as the crow flies). 93% of NSW is officially drought affected. The remaining 7% would be the northeast - coastal strip - of the state which is always much wetter than the rest (there are some beautiful rainforest areas in that region).
Bourke is a genuine outback town and within that classification is fairly big - pop. around 4500 (though this includes outlying residents in a 40-odd thousand square kilometre shire area). There's a bit about the place, and some very basic weather stats, here.
I have just successfully introduced two groups of friends to each other, both made initially through the net, and both based in Oxford. How satisfying :o)
(rab) If your radiators are individually thermostatically controlled then simply adjust them. If not, and this sounds more likely, they should have two valves, one at each end, one being a normal on-off valve, the other, hidden under a plastic cap, being a control or balancing valve. Prise off the plastic cap and adjust the control valve using a small adjustable spanner or some other tool. This will limit the flow through that radiator. If all this isn't possible simply turn off the rads in the bedroom until you need them. This will boost the flow through those in the living room. All this is based on my own system, which is steam age and installed in 1971. It still works very well.
(Dujon) Thanks for that. Bourke is not as dry as I would have thought, with 300 mm a year average though at those temperatures it would count as less than if the same amount fell in a cool climate. Parts of Essex have only about 520 mm a year but no-one would call it a desert, except culturally maybe. Woo! 'ark at 'im!
Rads
We have a rad that is temperamental and blackish water usually comes out when it is bled. To force the gunk out the whole system is having a power flush in the new year.
Has anyone else seen Casino Royale with Clive Owen? Took along my 12 year ld son and two of his mates last night. Really good (first "adult" film I've seen in ages) but one thing I did not understand was why the sea shell made him look at the messages on the mobile. Otherwise an enjoyable, very gritty, not indestructible bond.
Has anyone else seen Casino Royale with Clive Owen? Took along my 12 year ld son and two of his mates last night. Really good (first "adult" film I've seen in ages) but one thing I did not understand was why the sea shell made him look at the messages on the mobile. Otherwise an enjoyable, very gritty, not indestructible bond.
Things that make me go GRRRRR! I put my hands up to having not to good grammar and punctuation but somethings even take the biscuit for me. There was a trailer far a new film with Will Smith The Pursuit of Happyness !!!Happyness!!! Happyness!! What the....?? perhaps it is a concept thing.
[Inkspot] "Happyness" sounds (or I should say reads) like what the inhabitants of Brave New World have, something you get from a pill. Does that fit with the trailer?
me, procrastinating? never...
[rab] Dunno, heating is ducted here. I kept the house at 18C through the winter; without heating it was usually around 12C inside during the day. You could try using fewer blankets (not trying to be facetious either: the tendency of some people here is to use a giant quilt whatever the weather, which I really don't get). Good luck.
[pen] Well done :)
[Rosie] For very thorough Aus. climate stats go to dubdubdub.bom.gov.au . Evaporation rates out at Burke are very high, though I don't know how they calculate it. It was 42° here yesterday and 22° today. This place is crazy.
[pen] Well done :)
[Rosie] For very thorough Aus. climate stats go to dubdubdub.bom.gov.au . Evaporation rates out at Burke are very high, though I don't know how they calculate it. It was 42° here yesterday and 22° today. This place is crazy.
[flerdle] Wrong bedroom - the boiler and first rad is in the room we use least, and in any case we don't have the heating on at night.
[Rosie] I'll take a look at the valves when the window people have done their last and I've moved all the clutter back from the rad end to the window end of the bedroom. There's no TRV (which I think makes sense, as the boiler thermostat's in the same room) but also no "on-off" tap either as far as I know. There does appear to be something that can be turned with a spanner, so maybe that's the one to look at...
TBH the quick fix is to sit in the spare room when we're feeling chilly, and the longer fix is to get TRVs fitted on the rads that don't have them, an external thermostat put in the hallway and a living flame fire in the hearth in the living room for the occasional extra blast the central heating isn't capable of delivering.
So while the new windows are great (or will be, once the final couple of panes are switched from single to double glazing), they have rather highlighted all the deficiencies in our central heating. Ho hum.
[rab]If there are just valves as described by Rosie our problem at the begining of winter was balancing the system. At the moment the heating is turned off each evening just after eight and an hour in the morning. After B Gas wanting to put up the direct debit again even that amout of heating is looking too much.
[Raak] It looks like the film about a single parent father down on his heels and homeless with a small son. The trailer shows him bumping into a Trader with a Ferrari, then his luck takes a turn for the worse. I have no idea how it ends but it is more than likely an unhealthy dose of Hollywood syrup. The possible moral being you can have hapiness and be poor, but for that extra happy factor ‘happyness’ you need to be successful,rich and fulfill the American dream.
[Raak] It looks like the film about a single parent father down on his heels and homeless with a small son. The trailer shows him bumping into a Trader with a Ferrari, then his luck takes a turn for the worse. I have no idea how it ends but it is more than likely an unhealthy dose of Hollywood syrup. The possible moral being you can have hapiness and be poor, but for that extra happy factor ‘happyness’ you need to be successful,rich and fulfill the American dream.
the old more than one bedroom trick.
[rab] Ahh, ok.
Dryness
[Rosie] Yes, Bourke is after all an agricultural area of sorts and the average rainfall is around the 300mm mark. In the last 12 months (I just did a quick check with the local BOM) they have had roughly 107mm, twenty five of which landed on one day. Since the end of July they have received 11.2mm. That, I think, highlights the current problem - particularly when you relate it to flerdle's evaporation rate comment.
OZBOM
(flerdle, Duj) An excellent site which I have used for some time. I pop in most days to have a quick look at the S Hemisphere circulation and there is a lot else there too. Our own Drought Order has been rescinded at last not that it makes the slightest difference because I never water the garden or wash the car anyway, particularly in December of all months. I've had 86 mm so far this month, equal to my monthly average since I started in 1983.
Windows
They're done at last: see for
yourself! (Pictures are clicky)
rab's views
Oooh - very swish. 'Though the pic of the window that swings open for cleaning made me recoil a little. Take care when weilding the Windolene!
Brighton Snibs
What a wonderful name for a gadget. And lovely windows :D
Incidentally, what is that Christmas ching song that goes "boo-doo-doo-doo-dum dum, boo-doo-doo-doo-dum dum, boo-doo-doo boo-doo-doo boo-di-doo-di-dooo" called? It's stuck in my head and I can't get rid of it.
Windows
[rab] View through: Somewhere in Scotland? Please excuse if you've said. Very nice job.
Who - do -do - doo -doo- doodoo- doodoo- Hitler
[rab] That rhythm brings to mind "Close Every Door To Me" from Joseph And The Amazing Technicolour Whatsit ... ... but I know it's not that really - 'cause it's not a Christmas song.
[rab] It's not In Dulci Jubilo, is it? As popularised by Mike Oldfield in the seventies.
[rab] Actually, on further inspection, it isn't.
Could you perhaps mark the barlines?
Irving Barlines
(Projoy) Must be at 1st and 2nd commas and just before first "di", assuming 4/4 swing, i.e. 12/8.
[Rosie, Projoy] 1st and 2nd commas, yes, and before the last "boo-di-dooo-di-dooo". There are some words that follow about "coming home for Christmas" and then "Ching ching ching ching ching | Ching ching chi-chi chung ching".
It's odd the Christmas songs that get played relentlessly in all pubs and shopping centres nationwide. None of them seem to be less than about 20 years old to achieve the right (or wrong) sort of Dickensian nostalgia - but what was in their place 20 years ago?
[SM] Oh yes, Edinburgh. The hills you can see are the Pentlands, and possibly the Braids.
Name That Tune
[rab] There's a Chris Rea song called "Driving Home For Christmas" which is played relentlessly around this time of year.
Stop!
I think that might be the bridge section in Jona Lewie's Stop the Cavalry. If played in C major, would it have this melody (where hyphens/equalses show beams on (semi)quavers): 2/4 | D=C=b=a g-g | D=C=b=a g-a=b | C D E=F-E | E=F=E=D E ?
s/Jona/Jonah
Bingo
That's it. Why on earth is it called "Stop the Cavalry"?
Halt!
Hey, Mr. Churchill comes over here
to say we're doing splendidly
But it's very cold out here in the snow,
marching to win from the enemy
Oh I say it's tough,I have had enough
Can you stop the cavalry?
I have had to fight, almost every night
down throughout these centuries
That is when I say, oh yes yet again
Can you stop the cavalry?
Mary Bradley waits at home
in the nuclear fall-out zone
Wish I could be dancing now
in the arms of the girl I love
to say we're doing splendidly
But it's very cold out here in the snow,
marching to win from the enemy
Oh I say it's tough,I have had enough
Can you stop the cavalry?
I have had to fight, almost every night
down throughout these centuries
That is when I say, oh yes yet again
Can you stop the cavalry?
Mary Bradley waits at home
in the nuclear fall-out zone
Wish I could be dancing now
in the arms of the girl I love
s/Jonah/Jona
woohoo!!
I've just bought a pair of tickets to see Muse playing at the new Wembley Stadium in June :oD
Right
Well I'm off for few days tomorrow, and Andy's on his way to New Zealand so you can fully expect the site to fall over and not get rebooted until sometime next week. Take the opportunity to drink some more wine.
Happy.
Unknown hand
(rab) THe site did fall over last night but got up again. Hooray!
Back
Thanks for keeping an eye open. I guess Andy must have pressed the reset button in LA.
I like the idea of pressing the reset button in LA, turning it back into a civilised and agreeable small town.
Ctrl/Alt/Del
I have visited a number of places over the years where, failing friendly bombs, a Reset button would have been very appropriate. Brighton springs to mind....
Sussex reset
(Kim) On your way down there could you do Crawley? An amorphous blot. Is Brighton really all that bad? I haven't been there for a few years. The prime candidate must be Basingstoke, so they say.
Mornin' all
I have just made a new year resolution. Having just carted a 40Kg package of set-due-to-humidity-premixed-concrete from the workshop to the front of my premises (OK, it's a 1-in-4 slope about 50 or 60' long) and the concrete no doubt now includes a bit of water . . . yes, I'm rationalising . . . ) and dump it into a bin out the front, the lip of which is probablly 4'6" off the ground, I'm embarrassed. I needed the help of my super fit wife.
Exercise is what I need and will do. Probably, perhaps.
Exercise is what I need and will do. Probably, perhaps.
(Dujon) Forty kilos is a lot easier where you are than it is here because you're upside down, which must help.
Floating on air
[Rosie] You are, as usual, correct. That was the problem. I had to get the wife to hang off my ankles. Even though I've lived on the southern hemisphere for 50-odd years I still haven't got the hang of keeping my feet on the ground. Ah well, it's got to be better than living on the equator.
Australity and boreality
(Dujon) And the sun goes round the wrong way, and the weather charts are all arse-about-face and Christmas day's in the height of summer. If you came back here you'd be totally confused. Loads of rain here, BTW, 129 mm in December and some thunder earlier today, most unusual for this time of year here. I see that rather ominously your drought is set to continue due to El Niño.
Sounds like the cricketers can blame the whether, with no rain expected no chance of a draw in the last test, just a white wash.
First day back and up late after a half hour lie in. It all seems funny peculiar the roads in were as clear as a bell and the office is slightly muted.
[Duj] Apols for introducing a note of sense into the conversation, but fit or not, you should get help lifting something that heavy and that awkward to that height. If you got your muscles fit, then did your back in hefting something awkward, you'd really want to kick yourself. (Although again obviously it's better to get someone else to kick you instead.)
Sensibilites
[Rosie] How dare you! Australian bore indeed. ;-)
[SM] Yes, but too late. I did my back in years ago. The doctor's advice? "Give it some exercise". Hmmmm. Sounds like some sort of miracle cure for a broken arm: "Give it a bit of a bend each day". Of course he was right - as far as I know my problem is only muscular and not a spinal disc matter. Right, back to my sit-ups.
[SM] Yes, but too late. I did my back in years ago. The doctor's advice? "Give it some exercise". Hmmmm. Sounds like some sort of miracle cure for a broken arm: "Give it a bit of a bend each day". Of course he was right - as far as I know my problem is only muscular and not a spinal disc matter. Right, back to my sit-ups.
(Duj) Sorry, old bean, it was an occident.
Windows
[rab] Terrific pictures, and it looks like a nice place to... wait a minute... in the earlier picture that man across the road is arguing with his wife... then the sun is lower in the sky and you can see him carrying out a box... wait, he's looking up. He's seen me! He's coming across the road! Damn this wheelchair, if I try to get out he'll just catch me on the landing!
*Wonders if it's possible to go back in time and unkill the conversation*
*hears the conversation rustling a bit and realises it's not quite dead yet*
Just making sure it really is dead
<desperation>Whatever you've read in the papers no-one can possibly know whether 2007 will be the warmest year ever in the UK but globally it might well be so.</desperation>
B.S.F.
[rab] You'll be happy to know that your Windows page is already the number one Google result for a certain three word name for a thing what helps keep windows shut. (Don't want to name it here and skew the results the next time this page is spidered.)
Wow!
I hope that's what they are actually called - it's what it said on the quote, and the chap who measured up referred to them as such (I could hardly keep a straight face).
What on earth possessed you to look, anyway?
I guess I'm just kinky for ironmongery. Or brassmongery. Or whatever they monger to make these things. I thought it was an interesting fastener and I wondered if it was just a UK thing so I went looking around.
BSF
[Dan] Wouldn't it be more accurate to say this is the only site that calls them [the name that must not be mentioned]? Not trolling, but all the other hits I got in Google called them something slightly different (but with the same initials). By the way, I loved your "Rear Window" bit. It provided a moment of cheer in an otherwise lousy Friday.
[SM] It's possible that it's local dialect.
[rab] Good point. I am a long way from where I was brought up and occasionally, when I'm not concentrating or when I'm tired, say something "regional" that has people looking at me weirdly. I told some Canadians that I would "put the snack on" a Yale lock so they could come and go without a key. No-one understood what I was talking about.
I seem to have killed the conversation. Sorry rab.
Turning gently
Your mother is a big hippo.
Sierra Mike] It's always been a "sn*b" for me
media frenzy
There has been a fair amount in the press and tv amout the goings on the the BB house. I feel part of the problem is that swathes society in Britain encouraged by the media has lost respect for itself and civility towards others. The mantra is ‘you are no better thatn me no matter who you are’ whether that is a doctor, priest, police, MP, prince or Queen. It is a matter of bringing everyone down to the tabloid level. Are those we are to look up to the highly paid footballer and their WAGs, the instant celeb or winning pop idol.Is it possible that headlines of cultural intolerance and ignorance really do reflect the essence large sections Britain today.
The behaviour in BB is what you'd expect from forcing pretty stupid, ignorant attention-seeking people together. Naturally they bring out the worst in each other. The racism, though we could certainly do without it, is fairly routine and widespread among certain types and makes one wonder what rarified parts of the atmosphere the media inhabit. There are pages about it today's Guardian, for instance. The more disturbing aspect of BB is that it is broadcast at all and is regarded as entertainment by large numbers. How edifying to watch dimwits getting on each others' tits! The participants abase themselves simply to be on TV but they shouldn't be exploited in this manner.
[Rosie] The first series of BB was interesting, IMHO, as the participants were derived of most luxuries. They never quite had enough alcohol to get drunk. They didn't have pencils or paper. They had no clocks. They really struggled to get by. Hence, it was fascinating to watch how people interacted when derived of so many things that they would normally use to pass the time. These days, it has become more of a circus, with the blame lying on the shoulders of the producers for promoting ratings-grabbers to enter the house, in the knowledge that their behaviour is likley to cause headline-making outrage.
The behaviour that I have (albeit very briefly) witnessed recently on BB is, as you say, the norm in a large sector of British society. That the media causes an outcry over it is utterly hypocritical (as ever); that people are shocked and outraged by it is merely bandwagon-jumping. What needs to be addressed is the fact that, presuming most people in the world are racist to an extent, placing remarkably dim people in an environment where they are going to expose their deepest "instincts" (not sure that's the right word) is irresponsible, particularly considering how sensitively balanced the world is at present with regard to extremism - on all sides. I'd love it if everyone just relaxed a bit, frankly.
The behaviour that I have (albeit very briefly) witnessed recently on BB is, as you say, the norm in a large sector of British society. That the media causes an outcry over it is utterly hypocritical (as ever); that people are shocked and outraged by it is merely bandwagon-jumping. What needs to be addressed is the fact that, presuming most people in the world are racist to an extent, placing remarkably dim people in an environment where they are going to expose their deepest "instincts" (not sure that's the right word) is irresponsible, particularly considering how sensitively balanced the world is at present with regard to extremism - on all sides. I'd love it if everyone just relaxed a bit, frankly.
(Phil) I'll go along with all of that except possibly your last sentence. If you mean we should stop pretending to be shocked by some of the behaviour then I agree wholeheartedly but I don't think we should be relaxed about allowing this stuff on TV, certainly in its present form. It's no better than bear-baiting or cock-fighting, i.e. a distasteful spectator sport. My own instinct is to say to the contestants "You're on telly. Stop behaving like a complete arse, even if you are one" but that's hopelessly old-fashioned.
For Jade Goody-Nude to get on Celebrity BB by having been on BB in the past says something about the show. Probably involving the words "vanishing" and "own *rsehole". How about Religious Big Brother, involving a Protestant, a Catholic, a Shia Moslem, a Sunni Moslem, an Orthodox Jew, a Reform Jew, a Dawkins-esque atheist, a Hindu, a Buddhist, a Rastafarian, and a Bahai?
Relax!
[Rosie] No, that's not what I meant at all, although I see how it looks like that. And I agree wholeheartedly with your bear-baiting analogy. What I meant was that if people such as Jade Goody relaxed a bit, she'd probably enjoy her life a lot more, and this whole issue wouldn't have arisen.
[Raak] Throw in a satanist, and you might be onto something :-)
[Raak] Throw in a satanist, and you might be onto something :-)
quoted from BBC News...
"Goody insisted on the show that she 'didn't say Shilpa Poppadom in a racial way'".
So that's all right, then.
So that's all right, then.
(Phil) Jade Goody, despite her wealth, has little to be relaxed about. She's from the bottom of the pile and knows it and this is her chance to get back at the world in general. There are many like her and the problem is exacerbated by our class-consciousness though ironically India, with its caste system, is probably even worse.
Not Goody Two shoes
I actually don't think that Stupid Jade is racist. I think she's just ignorant and a bully. Remember the first time she was on she didn't even know where Cambridge was and thought East Anglia was another country. She's picked on Shilpa cos she's pretty and an unknown quantity. Jade's head got far too big with fame and she wasn't clever enough to cope with it, and when she was insecure she attacked those outside her comfort zone.
Where will they be?
I sometimes wonder, "where will this person be when they're 60?" Jade Goody at 60...
Thinking also of "where are they now?", today I chanced across this picture, which looks like a very ordinary businessman or politician. I was quite startled to realise who it was. The URL gives a small clue.
That is a bit of a surprise. I had to Google for the picture to find out who it was, though!
[Raak, Darren] Was just reading his "dangerous idea" at Edge. Profound knowledge of the philosophical implications of quantum mechanics or windy hallucinogenic rhetoric?
[Projoy] The dangerous idea was asking him the question in the first place.
Well, who is it then?
[Rosie] I'm sorry, but due to the indeterminacy principle it's not possible to know the URL of his picture and his identity simultaneously.
Yeah, that picture startled me when I saw it a few years ago. It's a portrait for a board he sat on. He's always been something of a hero of mine. He's the one who's not Zappa. Or IS HE??? You can see him a little better in this. There's a story about how he turned up for his audition carrying his laundry, the idea being that as long as he was going out he might as well get his laundry done so it wouldn't be a wasted trip either way. The pragmatic insouciance of this apparently impressed the casting director quite a bit.
Oh, just found the "dangerous idea" on Edge. I'm half inclined to believe he's having them on -- it would be very like him -- but there's just enough consistent substance peeking out of it to make me wonder. Which, again, may be the idea.
(Projoy) It is now. This is very disturbing.
[Projoy] I incline towards either "windy rhetoric" or "leg-pull", especially compared with the other contributions there.
In fairness to others, here it is. It made more sense the second time I read it; at least think I saw about two thirds of what he was driving at. Unfortunately he tries to distill it down a little too far and leaves out about 90% of the exposition it would need to lift it out of Time Cube territory, with the result that it does read a bit like somebody trying to drag some subjectively experienced great insight back from an altered mental state by scribbling the key concepts on a notepad on the nightstand before the memory fades. I can't even say he's wrong, just that he doesn't really give you anything to analyze or dispute; he's reduced it to an overly simple set of vague declaratives, so even if you want to give him a hearing you just end up going, "um. Okay."
Scrolling down, I see that Laurence Krauss has a project for Darren:
The ultimate goal of physics, as it is often described, is to have a "theory of everything", in which all the fundamental laws that describe nature can neatly be written down on the front of a T-shirt (even if the T-shirt can only exist in 10 dimensions!).
The ultimate goal of physics, as it is often described, is to have a "theory of everything", in which all the fundamental laws that describe nature can neatly be written down on the front of a T-shirt (even if the T-shirt can only exist in 10 dimensions!).
ONe week later...
I'm mucking out the house today. How does it get so much stuff in it?
Stuff
The naughty stuff fairies cart it in in the middle of the night. If you make a present to them by leaving binbags full of stuff by the edge of the road once a week, you should find the amount of stuff eventually decreases.
(Raak) No, the foxes get it. So the fairies don't get their presents and just keep up the pressure.
[Irouléguy] I thought I'd posted this response immediately after your post, but still... when the physicists fulfil their part of the bargain, I'll do mine.
Darren] T-shirts seem to be real conversation killers.
*mimes t-shirt silence*
(pen) Now do it with the words.
and through the square window
Had a look around the Vista web pages last night and the Vista Advisor. It looks like it will not be a simple upgrade from XP. There are many programmes it highlights that there may be problems or issues with but has big problems with Realtek and Kaspersky virus, both need to be uninstalled then reinstalled after. Some of the things it has problems with came preloaded on the PC suprised there were so many. The promo on the site looks good but that is the top end version not the basic Home version, so will be waiting a bit before taking the plunge.
hmmmm
I think I am being constructively dismissed. I have taken legal advice. More on this later.
Bloody hell!
[pen] You're doing the right thing. Keep us posted, and good luck!
[Pen] Ouch! A horrid situation however it pans out. It's too long since I was a union convenor and kept up with employment law, but make sure you follow all the procedures properly yourself such as following up internal channels even if you know in advance it won't make any difference. You should also keep records of everything, including as verbatim as possible notes of conversations. Best of luck.
[pen] oo-er. Stay strong.
[pen] eek! what Chalky and INJ said.
[pen] EEk! Oh no! Good luck.
[pen] Just been reading around the subject and it sounds pretty f'king horrible. Sympathies.
[pen] Loads of sympathy and good luck.
[pen] What rab said.
pen] Good luck!
[pen]Good luck with the lawyers.
I'm not familiar with the term "Constructive Dismissal" so I looked it up. Am I to understand penelope is being harrassed by her supervisors to the point she will quit?
Regardless, please add my best wishes that things resolve well for you, penelope.
Regardless, please add my best wishes that things resolve well for you, penelope.
At the risk of interrupting something serious with frivolity, I am amused by the fact that on some paperwork we have, the cost of registering a marriage is quoted per person. One wonders how many marriages between one, three or seventeen people take place.
well...
After two conversations with a lawyer and some advice from my brother in law, three meetings, some steely bargaining (on my part) and a little compromise, I have a solution. For now. It's a big relief.
phew
[pen] Glad to hear it.
Here (AU), since last year, businesses with fewer than 100 employees (99% of public sector firms) are exempt from unfair dismissal laws, and those with over 100 employees are able to dismiss anyone any time if they claim that part of the reason for the dismissal was for the "operational requirements" of the business. Being sacked on the basis of race, sex, age, pregnancy or family responsibility is still technically illegal, but pretty easy to get around.
and
(actually, the "operational requirementes/reasons" clause is available for all sizes of employer)
[flerdle] Well thank goodness I live in a country where working for a small firm isn't a discrimination in itself.
[pen] Indeed.
[flerdle] Isn't it the same in some parts of the US? There was an early "King of the Hill" episode where Hank's company had trouble firing an employee for drug use because of a similar law. In the end, Hank resigned and then they were able to fire the addict because they had few enough employees to be exempt from the law.
I have no idea what the USA does, but our PM is the ... nevermind.
Another trick is to make all your employees "contractors", or keep them as a succession of short-term casuals. Then they don't count towards your total, and they aren't covered by the unfair dismissal laws anyway.
own up...
Right. I need to know. Who has stolen the snow I've been promised? On tuesday I defrosted my car four times!!! (00:10 leaving work, 11:00 leaving to get home from sleeping venue, 19:00 leaving for pub and 23:25 leaving cinema). Today I wake up and there's no frost or snow. Are you hoarding it down south? Give it a shove up Manchester way please.
[Lib] You're very welcome to have all mine. Unwanted gift. Buyer collects.
West Midlands weather update
Tons of the white stuff here guys. Enough to keep thousands of students amused, it seems.
I was supposed to be going to a meeting in Birmingham, but cancelled due to a wide range of boring reasons; quite glad I did now, cos I don't think I'd be getting back...
Snow
3" here this morning (Surrey/Gt London border, 600 ft). Rainfall equivalent 6.8 mm and a pain-in-the-arse to measure because some of it sticks in the gauge funnel and has to be melted (saucepan on the gas stove) without evaporating too much of it. It's now raining, making millions of pinholes in what's left of the snow. Tremendous excitement on the uk.sci.weather newsgroup, which has a number of semi-literate snow freaks. Definately. Its the tempreture anomoly. there saddo's.
uk.sci.weather
[Rosie] I read that as uk.ski.weather. Time I was on the piste.
[Projoy] Thanks for the offer, but I was kinda hoping someone would bring it to my.
To my? what am I going on about? To me, I mean.
White stuff
I was wondering how you were all coping, particularly those of you south of Watford Pass. The BBC was reporting that the country was grinding to a standstill. 4" (max) brings the whole country to a shuddering halt? I'm . . . well . . . gobsmacked. Surely that must be journalistic hyperbole?
col
How about Watford Gap then?
(Dujon) Watford Gap is not a gap, pass, col, gorge or anything so dramatic. It's just another dreary motorway service station about 80 miles NW of London, in pretty flat country. It's nowhere near Watford, which is on the NW edge of London. The original phrase used contemptuously by Londoners to denote provinciality was "North of Watford", ie outside London, and in particular to the north of it. When Watford Gap service station on the M1 was built people started talking about "north of Watford Gap" thus changing the meaning, then it became "north of the Watford Gap", which ain't there, as I said. This is how place-names and language in general changes; misunderstanding by stupid people. One reason the country grinds to a halt is that many roads are at full capacity, more or less, which means that the slightest hazard slows everything down and in no time at all the whole thing congeals. Another reason is that we are now the soppiest country in the world.
Watford Gap
Actually, as Herr Bratsche pointed out when this last arose about 5 years ago, there is a geographical significance to Watford Gap as the attached map shows. Within about 400 metres you have a railway line, a roman road (Watling Street - now the A5), and a canal all passing through the same minor low point. The motorway just follows the rest, showing that the romans knew a thing or two about roads. When you drive through on the motorway the surrounding geography is not evident.
The forecast last night was for a dollop of fog, but it is snowing again here in SN4.
What gap?
[INJ] Ah - seem to remember my late father saying as much way back in the 60s when we travelled north regularly, so thanks for that map ref for Watford Gap. I would so hate to be one of Rosie's 'stupid people' who misunderstand the term :-)
Watford Gap
Isn't Watford Gap next door to Watford H&M?
(Chalky) Heaven forbid, m'dear. But somebody started it. (Inkspot) A bit more to come, mostly sleet. Then milder. Nothing here in CR6.
Errors of ways
Thanks for setting me straight, good people, your points have been noted. Any road, I know now that I'm one of them 'stupid people'. It's ever so nice to keep track of your station in life. I'm sure that my to-ing and fro-ing would be easier if I had a good staff but continual ups and downs and constant changes confuse me no end. One of my relatives keeps telling me "get a grip, Dujon". To that end I have bought myself a sand box. If it doesn't work as planned then at least I can stick my head in it.
[Duj the not-so-stupid] So what is the real purpose of a sand box?
Technicalities
[Chalky] 'Morning.
The 'sand box', and I'm sure that Rosie and others can explain it better than I, is a box full of sand or grit of some kind or other. In olden days steam engines used the contents of such, as and when necessary, to increase the friction between wheels and rails. This was effected by dribbling the contents of the sand box onto the rails in front or over the driving wheels. Naturally (and obviously) you are far too young to have seen or heard this highly technological process in action.
The 'sand box', and I'm sure that Rosie and others can explain it better than I, is a box full of sand or grit of some kind or other. In olden days steam engines used the contents of such, as and when necessary, to increase the friction between wheels and rails. This was effected by dribbling the contents of the sand box onto the rails in front or over the driving wheels. Naturally (and obviously) you are far too young to have seen or heard this highly technological process in action.
I'll tell you the real purpose later. As a clue: Have you ever owned a cat?
(Dujon) Ah! Things are now clearer because I didn't know you drove a steam engine. Even I don't do that. Sand is useful and may have prevented this, the slip to end all slips. Click on the bottom recording, marked "60532". The quality is rather poor. The loco slips a bit on starting (quite usual) but the mayhem begins after 1m 50s. After another 15 seconds or so you can hear the water being carried over to the cylinders, which caused the real damage. All 3 connecting rods and the coupling rods and valve gear were bent so that was the end of that little day out. Why didn't the driver just shut off steam? He couldn't. The big handle wouldn't move against the huge volume of steam and water going through the main valve. He had about one second and missed it. No more driving for him, at least of that loco, which cost £80,000 to repair.
Patience
At the risk of seeming insensitive given pen's recent difficulties, I've finally been offered a permanent position at Edinburgh Uni. Woo!
A bit of a long and torturous story this one... back in July, I was offered a similar position in Manchester, but there were various reasons why we didn't want to move back then - not least the fact that we'd bought a flat in Edinburgh exactly one week previously. Turning that offer down was one of the trickiest decisions I'd ever made. Anyway, the gamble paid off in the end, and I'm now very relieved and pleased.
[Rosie] That was an interesting sound recording. I don't really know all that much about steam engines (I had to look up what water being carried over to the cylinders meant) but it's quite an impressive sound. Were you actually present when it happened?
Hurrah!
[rab] excellent - good news, congratualtions. And I'm fine - I got offered less money for working to a higher target, but with bigger bonuses than I was on before once I got beyond the target. And it was done without consultation, that was all... I could have sued, I was told, but I think it would look dreadful on a CV. And I will change, eventually, but I will leap, I will not be pushed. And I have a hot date tonight so frankly, i don't care any more. :o)
Congratulations rab! And to pen, if that's a sufficiently positive outcome to warrant it. Did you get them to make things better than they were trying to?
[Rosie] Thanks for the link. The sounds bring back a few memories. £80,000! The mind boggles. I used to be a keen 'train spotter' as a youngster but the interest waned when girls and cars came along. I had a relative who was a signalman. Occasionally my elder brother and myself would visit him at work in his signal box. Exciting times for a lad.
[rab and penelope] Congratulations on your results. Great news.
[rab and penelope] Congratulations on your results. Great news.
(Darren) There's only about a quarter of an inch clearance when the piston is right at the end of its stroke and any excess water either knocks the cylinder cover off or bends the connecting rod. Major damage. There are drain cocks which are often opened for the first few puffs when an engine starts out and they blow huge quantities of wet steam ahead of the engine, ruining photos but very necessary. I wasn't there for that recording. I've seen loads of engines slipping on starting but quickly brought under control. It's a rather fearsome sound for a small boy a few feet away on the end of a platform, or for anyone, come to that. (pen) If you're happy so am I. Nothing worse than work worries even they are now behind me.
(Dujon) The wheels only stopped spinning because the valve gear got bent and no longer allowed steam into the cylinders at the right time, rather like a car with a bent camshaft. Interesting that right at the end of the recording the safety valves lift. I'm surprised there was any fire left given the tremendous pull of the exhaust on it. What a mess! I gave up collecting numbers very early but have never lost interest, you could say, but as you imply, there is much else in life.
The juice
When is a power cut not a power cut? When they restore the connection at about half the normal voltage. Very dim orangey lights, computer won't start (but monitor OK), TV but no video, kettle wouldn't boil ether let alone water, old Acorn computer OK but not the monitor, strangely. They'd got the full voltage next door but Mrs-next-door-but-one (in her curlers) had the same problem as had an old lady walking her dog. Obviously one of the phases was faulty but I thought you got the full whack or nothing. It seems you may not.
long absence
Hello, all. Some of you may remember me from long ago, on other servers. A strange thing happened recently. I discovered that, having moved from Sydney to Edinburgh, and not having played MC for years on account of a Thesis, I happened by complete accident to end up working down the corridor from rab. What do you know? Well, probably that MC is responsible for effects that are not quite normal, for one.
Oddness
...and when "kt" appeared I had this very odd feeling that we'd met before (although it was only virtually, and - I think - under a different moniker). Anyhoo, welcome back!
I recognize that moniker
[kt] Welcome back.
[kt] Hello, I'd wondered where you'd gotten to (having met you in Sydney, if you're who I think you are!). Enjoy Edinburgh!
[Rosie] It used to happen all the time in India (and probably still does). Just shrug and say "Volt is down" like the locals did.
[Rosie] The phenomenon is referred to as a 'brown out' - at least here it is. The description is obvious when you think about the affect on your light globes. In the last house I owned I had two phases connected and, on a number of occasions, could have full voltage and current available on some internal circuits and not on others. This of course also applied to total power cuts where only one phase was down. The reason for the variation in equipment functions is simply that some items will run on a range of, say, 180 volts to 260 volts while others need the full pressure (usually 230V +).
(flerdle) It's the first time I've ever seen it, and there were power cuts galore when I was a small child (say late 40's). The voltage here is allowed by statute to vary 10% (up 4 and down 6) but this was down 50%, at a guess. (Dujon) Can't be that, because everyone here is on single phase except industrial premises which have all 3. There were 2 more cuts early this evening. When the first (over an hour) ended it came back on (full voltage) for less than a minute, just enough time to put the candles out before going off again for another 40 minutes or so. Loud, pointed and profane were my exclamations to no-one in particular.
ex-kt
[rab] That's right, I'd forgotten that I changed from kt to Kathryn. That's how long ago it was.
Hi, flerdle! Sorry I dropped out of contact for a while there. Are you still in the middle east? Edinburgh's rather nice, actually, with more sun than I had imagined.
And hello Simons Mith also. It's amazing how stable the MC community is...
Hi, flerdle! Sorry I dropped out of contact for a while there. Are you still in the middle east? Edinburgh's rather nice, actually, with more sun than I had imagined.
And hello Simons Mith also. It's amazing how stable the MC community is...
[kathryn] Welcome back - I'm an irregular visitor myself these days.
doin' the continental shuffle
[kathryn] No, am now in Melbourne, and thesising too, fool that I am. But Melbourne is very pleasant.
Thesis mightier than the sword
Incredible the %age of MCers who have done or are doing theses. I have no plans to go within a million miles of one meself, but have a lot of respect for those who have the inclination.
Stability
(kathryn) Collectively, maybe.
[ISP] Ten years after my undergrad degree, I'm doing an MA. Think I might be ready to do the big one in another ten years! :)
Education Education Education
[Projoy] Well, I worked five years between school and Uni, then another eight between BA and MSc, now I'm (avoiding) studying for my Oracle exams. Doing very well - been avoiding studying for two and a half years and counting.
Wibble flib
Stable?? Us?
Hmm... I waited ten years between under-gradding and post-gradding, and have now resolved to study nothing but happy things that interest me, which is mostly food, conservation, art and historical stuff, not science or authoring. If all goes to plan, I'm off to Rotterdam next month to work for a day on a conserved windmill. And also to see a very nice man who happens to be the Miller. :o)
Well then, enjoy your Miller time :-)
[Rosie] Dad was an industrial electronics guru during that period. The reason for the power cuts was to avoid brown outs according to him. The national grid had been so badly compromised during WWII that power was in short supply. It was deemed safer to cut the power altogether than tolerate a severe voltage drop. They used to sound sirens around ten minutes before the power cuts in the local factories apparently, so that the machine shops could shut down gracefully. The good old days.
[blamelewis] hello!
[flerdle] Melbourne is indeed pleasant, despite lacking a proper harbour.
[ISP] There may well be a connection between people who put themselves through a thesis and people who take pleasure in playing a game like MC. An unusual relationship with reality could well be one of them.
[pen] How about the science of food (e.g. courtesy of Harold McGee)? That's definitely a happy thing!
[flerdle] Melbourne is indeed pleasant, despite lacking a proper harbour.
[ISP] There may well be a connection between people who put themselves through a thesis and people who take pleasure in playing a game like MC. An unusual relationship with reality could well be one of them.
[pen] How about the science of food (e.g. courtesy of Harold McGee)? That's definitely a happy thing!
[penelope] Watch out for clog-wearing mice in that windmill. The staircases are infested with them from all accounts.
post-grad? sounds hard to me
I did have a plan last year to take an A-level every year for the next ten years. I think I've missed the deadline to enter for French this year, so maybe I'll start the mission next year and do two (to catch up). The plan is that if someone says to my daughter when she's 18, "oh, I've got 7 A-levels", she can reply, "well, my dad's got 14." The only extra proviso for this is that I don't attend any lessons/lectures in order to gain the qualifications - I'll rely on reading what the syllabus is, and a bit of common sense in terms of background reading. And, yes I've checked, there are still exam boards that do not require coursework :-)
The juice
(SM) Mine must have been a purely local problem due to malfunctioning switches or transformers and not insufficient supply. This was just one phase down or out over about a square mile.
clogged up
[Sierra Mike] I have my own clogs for stamping on said mice - they came as a present from the Miller last weekend. Luckily they were filled with chocolate as a sweetener...
Miller
Hope there's good ventilation, in case he's 
Windy.
Windy.yes, yes, I know...
[IS,P!] Hmmph. He's a Dutch Miller. Have you got a pic of one of those?
[Darren] Still, he does well, considering he died 15 years ago.
I thought he seemed a bit quiet. Just my luck :o(
HELLO MORNIVERSE! I'M NIGHTS BLESSED!
AND I'VE SCARED EVERYONE OFF, IT SEEMS! CHORTLE CHORTLE!
not me
Hello nights. It takes a bit more than emboldened shouting to scare me off! How are you? I've got a post holiday cold. Grump.
Where is everyone today? Not very chatty? Cheer up. Its almost the weekend!
Nothing at all
Hello all. It's a long time since I've been in here. Very smart.
Mouth full
Sorry Lib - I was enjoying a bacon sandwich...
[UK] I'd have thought you'd have a bit of a sore head!
[Lib] Well, fortunately it hadn't been cooked too fiercely. But getting the grease out of my hair is going to be a bind...
It doesn't matter how sh*tty the week has been , Friday always lifts the mood, doesn't it? Anyone know of any nice jobs going for someone bossy, intelligent and good at news writing? CV available on request. And The Dutch Miller is coming over again next weekend, :o)
Oh, and a lovely bit of spamming, which is a natural glow-worm or something: "ON fenugreek do maladroit.."
[pen] I think the next line is "beware the Jabberwock, my son!"
Morniverse seems slow today, or am I just toooooooo bored at work?
(UK) Not just today, either. The place seems infected with a kind of ennui. It'll pass, no doubt.
[Rosie] Well, I was hoping that someone might guess my AVMA before I left the office today, as I may well not be back online until Monday morning.
It's always very slow on Fridays. In fact I recall it being even less busy last Friday. Not that I check in here obsessively the whole time, of course.
Saturday was a non-starter.
There was an article in the paper a day or two ago about how boring and irksome working life has become even for people in well-paid professional jobs, what with vast amounts of form-filling and other pointless paperwork, meetings, meetings about meetings etc, etc. The way this place livens up during working hours shows how true that is.
working time directive
The local authority I (used to) work for transferred our dept to Capita at the begining of Feb. I have had to drastically cut back to a minimum amount of browsing during work time. Before there was a woolly policy about internet use. However, my new employer begins their internet use and email policy with the phrase "You have no right to privacy"
I'm glad that my Brian Blessed impression didn't freak EVERYONE out. I'm well, thanks. Final semester. Argh. And I've been getting some lovely poetry in my spam too. But even better is the amount of recipes I get for Spam, being a GMail user.
Crapita
(Inkspot) In that case don't do any more work than you absolutely have to. I hope at least you've retained your salary level.
MCIOS went down at 2.54 am today.
For about 5 minutes. You'd think a guy could take a server down for maintenance at 3 am in the user base's time zone.
FWIW, the timestamps on old moves from the first half of 1998 are now correct.
(Dan) Thanks for your efforts, as ever. Like Michael Howard, I am a creature of the night.
Harrumph
No problem, I didn't mean it the way it probably sounded. Anyway I've just noticed that this so-called asiago cheese I've been munching on was made in Wisconsin. Now a bit of research shows that asiago is Denominazione di Origine Protetta, so they shouldn't be calling it that and I'd be surprised if they could even sell it in the EU under that name. Still, it's a good cheese, but now I have to go and find the real thing so I know the difference.
BTW, I'm off to New Mexico for a week, so this may be the last you hear from me till next Monday. The server will almost surely fall over in about 2-3 hours time. Expect reboots only during office hours in New Zealand. ttfn.
Read on its own, that last message really really looks like rab's part of some international espionage.
[Tuj] What? You mean you're not... one of us?
SHHH!
It is very dark for the time of year.
Incidentally, I'm staying in room 404 which I'm having difficulty locating, for some reason.
[rab] Have you tried leaving the hotel and then coming back in again?
[rab] or trying an alternative door?
[Rab] Clear out all your cash, I guess in the hotel bar...
8 words game
I tried to translate Nights' post with an online translat-y-thing and it came up with "Ave druse! I ÷óñòâóþ as i no clever"
...although ÷óñòâóþ was actually an untranslated russian word, not nonsense.
That's actually pretty close to the mark. It reads "Hello friends! I rather think I'm not clever."
As indeed I appear not to be. Plans for the weekend, anyone?
I'm going to a masquerade ball! Very exciting. What are you up to?
Doing a workshop with actors, for which the freshly-written script still hasn't arrived from the States as yet! Also, writing a sample song from Lolita! - the musical as a college exercise.
Weekend plans
Working. What else? Not getting enough done, though. :-(
doing absolutely nothing
.. well - nothing worth mentioning. It's kinda nice. :-)
housework until this evening, then I shall be waiting for a certain Dutch Windy Miller to step off the plane :o)
My weekend is taken up with work - beer festival time again, this time only 16 beers, but plent y flive music keeping us entertained. Dunnno how I'm going to get up for 6am delivery tomorrow morning, but i'll cross that bridge later. For now,I need to write a quiz by 9pm.
[rab] New elopement menu?
I spent the weekend in the library, emerging only on Saturday night to get extremely drunk extremely quickly. It's coursework season in sunny Bath, and we are all working hard to meet arbitrary deadlines, smoking for all we're worth and drinking ourselves into the ground every Saturday night in a vain attempt to flee the horrific situation we find ourselves in once again. Also, why does everyone else in this library, all five floors of it, seem to be a complete idiot? Just asking. Is Library Rage something admissible in court?
I think I'm a bit depressed.
I think I'm a bit depressed.
[IS,P!] Yes, that sounds like just the thing that Niall would think of.
Pardon me, unplanned outage at mcios. I called the data center about another issue and they asked me if it was okay to physically move the server, and I told them to go ahead. It will, I hope, be out for less than an hour.
(Dan) It was alright at midnight (GMT). Thanks again.
[Rosie] Who's GMT?
I am.
[GMT] Do you have the time?
As it happens, I may well have ..
Leaning
Well, I've got the inclination...
[GMT] Not for much longer!
It's just struck me that as a Mornington Crescent server, we have no game of MC running. Anyone interested? I'd like to give the new 2007 ruleset a go as it's shortly to be published...
2007beta
[nights] Blimey, that's a bit radical, innit? MC on an MC website? Not sure I can cope. Besides, I've barely got used to HP2000. Do they think they've sorted the new version's DRM issues now, eh?
[SM] Last I heard, most of the national MC bodies had ratified it, with the exceptions of Monaco and East Cornwall. And I think the DRM nightmare will be with us for a while - last I heard, they were trying to make sure you only striled three times, then all your podumes would be deleted without warning. Perhaps better to wait a bit, hm?
Three striles and you're out
All your podume are belong to us.
shiny new things
I'd play the 2007 ruleset. Though my copy hasn't arrived from Amazon so I may make some bad moves (but I'm no stranger to that to be honest!).
Mornington Crescent on the front cover of The Times today (somewhat gratuitously).
Aigh!!
Where is MCiOS?? Or rather, where are all the games? The archive is also empty. I tried to create a new game and got Giant Ant Error. Is it time to panic??
It was there before 9.00AM this morning then it suddenly disappeared in the middle of my move! I guess its been hacked again.
MCiOS
Bloody hell! If anyone's got Dan's e-mail, give him a shout, quick!
MCiOS
It has rather shrunk.. I hope the games haven't been lost!
I've sent Dan a message about it already. 9:30 am in London is 2:30 am in Portland though, so I don't suppose he's up and about.
Yes, the middle of the night problem. We'll just have to wait. Hope it's ok...
MC in The Times
[Tuj] Did you guess the ruleset?
[Kim] No, do tell ;)
Ah. Very odd. I'll take a look.
Well done, Dan - no idea what you did, but you fixed it! :-)
It may be a serious problem. Stay tuned.
It's not behaving very well. I've asked the crew at the facility to cycle the power. I have last night's nightly backup here -- it's automatically fetched on a schedule, so nothing will be lost. But as I say, there may be a hardware problem so things might be iffy for a while.
Okay, it's going to be out of service for a while, as in multiple days, I think. I'm going to need to reconfigure my mail to point somewhere else, too. Very annoying.
(thank you, rab, for allowing me to use your server as a bulletin board.)
[Dan] Nae worries. As you know, I've hardware problems of my own.
BTW if anyone wants to email me -- though I'll be pointing my usual email at another server within a day or so -- there's always my last name at gmail dot com. Normally I don't check it very often but I'm using it now.
Get Well Soon MCiOS!
MCiOS thanks you. It would only take a moment to restart it at my home server and point the domain name at it (though it'd be a day or so before that change propagated through the intarweb), but the site gets a LOT of hits, including various kinds of attacks, and it would be a bad idea to inflict that on my home router for several reasons. Anyway, I'm going to have the machine professionally serviced, which will probably bring us into next week. This feels weird. It hasn't been down for more than a few hours since I launched it. I may give up on this colocation lark and go back to a virtual server of some kind; there are better and easier options for rapid failover when you do it that way.
[Dan] Indeed, there can't have been many days since last century when I didn't at least check in and look around at MCiOS. Still, I'm viewing it as a test of character!
Yeah, I still find myself typing "p" into the address bar as a shortcut to MCiOS. ("d" goes to Orange, "r" goes to here. Obvious reasons. But I'm so used to those shortcuts, if I use another computer it knocks me sideways for a minute.)
[Darren] Same with me! Except I use "pa", "du" and "ra".
shortcuts
How do you do that then? I just got 'em in me favourites.
shortcuts
Sounds like do-re-mi.
Do-re-mi
Nono, do is domaintools.com, re is resource-zone.com and mi is usually nothing, but right now it's mikael.jansson.be/rydis.html.
That's got to be an application for Web 3.0. Opening a webpage by whistling a merry tune.
Sign
Another reboot required this morning. I shall try and move to a different host this week.
I thought I couldn't get in last night.
The Tube
For those who are able to access it - tonight [Sunday] sees a series of programmes on BBC TV 4 beginning at 2100, which are all related to the London Underground. Includes the 'Design Classics' prog about the LU map.
[rab] With server farms you tend to get what you pay for -- decent reliable dedicated servers run at least a hundred a month in dollars and not very much less in pounds. If you want to pay a lot less than that and want top quality hardware and good service, you might consider a Xen host instead. The decent providers use very good hardware and they maintain it with a lot of care because if it goes down, more customers are affected than just you. And you can't tell the difference in terms of availability and performance; if anything it'll be much better than a cheap colo because most of the time the (often very muscular) CPU is way underutilized. You never get less than the share you're paying for and more often than not you get much more when you need it. And it's spectacularly easy to fail over to another machine -- a good provider will be able to switch you to new hardware in a matter of minutes if smoke starts pouring out of the box you're on. Frankly I'm seriously considering going back to that my self, mainly for that last reason.
Some links
xensource's list and hostingfu's. Both list UK providers, though you have to scroll down to find them in the latter.
Oh, for three years I ran mcios and several other sites, both http and https, an SMTP server, a jabber server with several transports, mysql, pop3 and imap, the homebrew chat server of course and a variety of other services that came and went over the years ... all in 64MB instance of User Mode Linux; a poor man's Xen. It was a little swappy but completely responsive and reliable. It was on good hardware though. A 256M Xen host would be an Aston Martin by comparison.
[Dan] Thanks for that - I was considering a 128MB Xen Vps but was slightly concerned it might not be up to the job of serving this site, which gets something like 5k hits a day.
[rab] How about hosting in Edinburgh? Though you'd probably want to traceroute them to find out if it's really close to you in terms of network hops; I'm three miles but 12 hops and 85ms from mine because of a lack of local peering between carriers, but your situation is likely to be different. Very low latency could be handy for maintenance; you could just mount drives remotely.
(Though it's not clear from their site that they offer Xen in their Embra facility, you'd have to phone to find out. And I'm not vouching for them as a provider -- I know nothing about them.)
[Dan] That company was on my shortlist of two. Haven't got round to emailing them yet, but I'll ask if they host Xen in (or, if my hunch as to the actual location is correct, near) Edinburgh.
128 should be fine. I run an identical setup at home on 128MB Xen server, and by far the biggest memory hog is mysql. Here's the memory footprint, 12 days since the last reboot:
dan@flint:~$ free total used free shared buffers cached
Mem: 131252 110836 20416 0 4632 38480
-/+ buffers/cache: 67724 63528
Swap: 131064 2228 128836
Those are pretty healthy numbers -- just enough swapping to indicate that it doesn't have more memory than it needs, without being significant.
Yikes, looks like you're discarding newlines. Okay, look in the chat game on mcios.
Whoops, had forgotten there would be instances where white-space would be significant. Hmm, looks like I need a PRE-tag handler.
But thanks for that info - as you (probably) know this thing hangs off a mysql database and although I've tried to minimise the number of queries needed to display any particular page, when it comes down to it you've still got to through a few Mb of tables around.
s/through/throw/. Another thing I want to add is a "whoops" feature that lets you correct typos in your previous move.
Typos
The Banter Page (this page) is wider than the others at the moment, so I have to scroll right to get to the 'up' and 'next' options.
Although it might revert when Dan's post has disappeared offscreen.
Ah, it doesn't do that on Firefox.
I wouldn't object if you modified or replaced it.
BTW, the web host for xtrahost.net appears to be located in the Scotland facility, if node names are anything to go by. I'd be tempted to relocate there myself and damn the exchange rate, but unfortunately I get 160ms ping times to it from my colo and 200ms from my home. That's fine for web stuff but I'd be unhappy with shell access and any other activity involving lots of small round trips.
Not to beat it to death but according to their FAQ the Xen hosting in Scolocate, which according to Google maps is within a reasonable definition of Edinburgh; perhaps 5 miles from the big rock with the funny house on top.
I'll get onto it - work's been a bit crazy today, but this machine just dropped off the internet completely for a bit - was a bit worried cos I'd be poking around with some of the security settings earlier and thought it had been a hack. Ho hum, we all still seem to be here, and the mysql tables are all still up and running.
Geil!
The Gyle, eh? Who'da thought it. A bit closer than Bush, which was guess #1. Definitely worth looking into!
Right
A VPS has been ordered, although I managed to lock myself out of my own online banking service in the process... Anyway, it should be with us over the next few days, so I hope to be able to migrate in the next week or so. Which is just as well, cos this machine needed another reboot last night. And my internet at home has stopped working, which is the next thing to try and sort out.
It's arrived... installing stuff as we speak, but since my internet at home seems to be fubar it'll probably take longer to get sorted than it would normally.
rab's computer woes
VPS? I'm trying to follow this talk of hosting and hardware because I would like to understand how it all goes together, but it's mostly greek to me unfortunately. I read it that the computer that this site is kept on is playing up and so a new one is needed. If you've a mind to explain, rab, I'd love to know whether you own the faulty computer or lease space on someone else's? Please excuse any howlers caused by my ignorance of the technology behind the web.
Also, please excuse howlers caused by my inability to proof read my own punctuation. Sorry.
Tis ok. This should probably all be in 'Let me check my notes' but it seems appropriate here as this will be the last post before shutting down to move elsewhere.
The hosting of this site has a long and chequered history, mostly due to my trying to do it as cheaply as possible. It started off in a user account on a shared linux machine, rented out at 30quid a year. It got hacked into about three times, and the whole thing demolished, which led to downtime and me having to spend a lot of time reconstructing from various "back-ups", including (on one memorable occasion) the Google cache. After the third of these incidents, Nik kindly stepped in and offered - free of charge - disk space and bandwidth on a linux box sitting in his front room and running on his DSL connection, and there things ran happily for a while. But it was not to be forever, and (for various reasons) a new home was needed.
At this time, my good friend Andy informed me he had bought a dedicated server - cheap because it was on old hardware. At the time we thought that old would just mean slow, but the fact that it needs rebooting twice a week indicates that old means crap. We've been trying to get it sorted out, but Andy's been migrating to VPSes, and I was looking into it when Dan gave me the filip I needed to sort it out once and for all.
And with that, I shall begin the process of moving this to there. It should be working in an hour or so - but you may not see it for a couple of days because the DNS will have to propagate. I also won't be on hand over the weekend to sort out any problems because there's a fault on my broadband line and BT are coming round on Monday to look at (and hopefully fix) it.
And here we are...
Who knows if this works or not.
Are we there yet?
good luck - and thanks with all efforts, rab. I shall be migrating to south Holland this weekend, to clean the windows of a windmill and to spend some time with my lovely Dutchman, so I\\\'ll be back on Monday too :o)
Ah, the slassher\'s back
Bani'shed?
Yay! I always forget about that little gotcha. And penelope - congratulations on being the first to see the new place - some people might not get in for a couple of days.
[rab] Thanks, as ever.
[pen] This Dutchman is starting to sound serious...
[pen] This Dutchman is starting to sound serious...
Heard the one about the windmill?
[Cdm] Yes, he is. Do you know any rib-cracking windmill-based jokes that might make him smile a bit more?
Why to windmills make the best shops? Because they've always got a sail on.
[pen] I hope you get a bunch of flours.
(pen) Don't know any windmill jokes but you could try call him clever clogs. Is he called Wim? One scours the place for names like that. ATB, BTW.
Marvellous
This place is still up and running.
rab the genius
A most wonderful migration, one can hardly see the join. Well done, rab!
[Darren, Projoy] Good efforts.
[Rosie] Nope, he's called Jan - equally typical. I think 'Clever Clogs' is a mainly British expression, innit? He actually brought me klompen the first time he visited. They're unfortunately too big, and might go on ebay next week!;o)
[Rosie] Nope, he's called Jan - equally typical. I think 'Clever Clogs' is a mainly British expression, innit? He actually brought me klompen the first time he visited. They're unfortunately too big, and might go on ebay next week!;o)
[rab] Thanks for a quick flit. I can see the new place from this part of .ac.uk now.
[rab] Hadn't even noticed the change! Guess that's good praise.
Wow. It's fewer network hops from my house to here than it is to my server. A lot fewer. Farther in terms of latency though, geography won't be completely ignored. And the fact that the route from my house to my server has to go through Los Angeles and San Francisco for what I'm sure are not very good reasons has a lot to do with it. [rab] Out of curiosity, what sort of ping times are you getting?
(pen) I suspect "clever clogs" is simply light-hearted British alliteration but the Dutch are so good at English he might even geddit. (rab) I'm with Tuj, q.v.
I'm finding the site a lot more responsive now.
[Projoy] There was a slow period this morning but that doesn't seem to have happened again since - suspect someone else on the machine was using the CPU time.
[Dan] Ping time from JANET is about 24ms, not sure if that's good or bad. It's a direct hop from JANET to the xtrahost network, but this seems to take place in London rather than Edinburgh... so there you go.
[rab] pssht. 24ms is less than the distance to my DSLAM from my router. (Which I really, really don't understand.) Good enough for pretty much anything. Though I imagine in the UK low latency is probably fairly normal.
[Dan] I am quoting the right figure: "64 bytes from rab.org.uk: icmp_seq=0 ttl=54 time=24.1ms"? www.google.com comes in at about 21.6ms, and www.bbc.co.uk at 11.0ms by the same measure.
[rab] Yep. Pity you don't have local peering, but that looks more than good enough. You'll have to check from home as well, if that's where you do your maintenance. I'm really jealous. Xtrahost looks great. They even have an SLA, which a lot of consumer-level VPS providers don't.
Anyway, I'm more than persuaded that virtualization is the coming thing. The idea of a server being physically implemented on a corresponding hunk of hardware already seems a little quaint. The amount of versatility and control you get from decoupling those concepts and essentially commoditizing CPU and memory along with bandwidth and storage is almost inarguably compelling. MS is putting up a fight as they always do when a shift occurs that challenges their business model. It's amazing to me that they stay in business when every good thing that happens is a threat to them rather than an opportunity.
(Though it must be said that a 99.9% uptime service level agreement means they're allowed to be down for 8 hours a year, which some categories of business would consider unacceptable. Still, it's much better than you or I have managed lately.) (And god, how I love Google sometimes. I just typed "0.1 % in hours per year" into the search field and up it comes.)
[Dan] I like the fact you can do things like "Current local time in New Zealand" too.
Well, the last place was down for 8 hours a week so 8 hours a year should be at least a 12-fold improvement. I'm not getting too excited about these people yet - all my previous providers (bar Nik) had certain shortcomings. But I was very impressed with the quick set-up (within an hour of my funds hitting their account) and am comforted by the fact that it's not infeasible to pop round and speak to them in person if things go horribly wrong.
rab] Congratulations!
downtime
I was disappointed to read that SABRE (the global airline res. system) is to be taken off mainframes running TPF. They used to quote ridiculous donwtime costs (something like USD1m per minute), due to the fact that they handled up to 9000 transactions per second. They're porting the system to Compaq NonStop, of which I (currently) know nothing, but I'll be looking into it. A few thousand TPF apps and ops programmers could be re-training in a few year, methinks.
Happy BST!
Hmm, PHP doesn't seem to have realised.
Or, indeed,
most of the rest of the system. Pah!
A Technical Quandary
Dear technically minded denziens of the Morniverse:
I am having hard disk space problems. I'm aware that I should get rid of some crap, which I fully intend to do. However, I'd love to be able to see how much space each folder takes up, at a glance, so I know which programs are more space-hungry and therefore which I can stand to lose.
My question is this: is there such a program, freely available, that you know of that might let me do this? I'd be deeply grateful to anyone that might point me in the right direction.
Sincerely,
Disgusted of Tunbridge Wel- I mean, nights. (crossposted to MCiOS and Orange, apologies)
I am having hard disk space problems. I'm aware that I should get rid of some crap, which I fully intend to do. However, I'd love to be able to see how much space each folder takes up, at a glance, so I know which programs are more space-hungry and therefore which I can stand to lose.
My question is this: is there such a program, freely available, that you know of that might let me do this? I'd be deeply grateful to anyone that might point me in the right direction.
Sincerely,
Disgusted of Tunbridge Wel- I mean, nights. (crossposted to MCiOS and Orange, apologies)
Very odd
Last week my modem kept dropping out, so I phoned my ISP and, after I did a basic check of my kit, they arranged for BT to do a test. Then, over the weekend, the line sprang back into action, and has been working fine since. The BT engineer came in this morning, did all his tests, and said "your connection doesn't get any better than this" (it's a 480m round-trip to the exchange!). So I wonder what went wrong in the first place... probably the weather.
down for 8 hours a week so 8 hours a year should be at least a 12-fold improvement
[rab] A twelve week year? I wish I had your job.
[IS,P rab] But it's a 32 day week.
And still only one Saturday and Sunday.
[IS,P!] Just checking you were listening, err.
Let me tell you something...
Well, as no-one has commented for a while, I'll tell you something. I have negotiated with my boss to be made redundant - it has been a little unpleasant through the recent 'difficulties', but I'm relieved to be moving on and am waiting to hear what he can offer me, bearing in mind I still have grounds for a constructive dismissal case. To be honest, trading conditions have changed and he should have spotted this a while ago. And I'm going to go and buy myself a car tomorrow as I'll have to give mine back. I have a second interview for a rather interesting job next Wednesday, the inklings of a few freelance jobs taking shape, and a mild feeling of pure terror about not having more than one paypacket in prospect beyonfd the end of next month. Oh, and The Dutchman and I are still seeing each other :oD
Good news about your miller! Long may it continue. And lots and lots of luck with the job front. Sounds necessary but scary. And for the cars, buy a skoda as they're ace!
the new car
I've bought an '52 plate 1.9TDI Seat Ibiza from Haywards Heath. It's a beautiful colour!
[pen] I'm now speculating on what you rate a beautiful colour. Bright red? Sky blue? Metallic chartreuse with glow-in-the-dark purple go-faster stripes?
... The same colour as Jan Miller's eyes? :-)
Spam heads-up (Crosspost)
I've added the original list of Encyclopaedia Morningtonia contributors, including their email addresses, to the E.M. Wiki. This shouldn't matter because those addresses have already been on-line for years, and many of them are dead anyway. But if you want to censor or update your details, now's a good time.
[Simons] Now you mention it, it's not far off that colour!
Saw Graeme Garden and Tim Brooke-Taylor on stage last night in The Goodies Still Rule OK at Southend. Good show, although very similar format to the BBC2 documentary at Christmas. Sadly, all but one of the video clips used are from episodes already out on DVD.
Goodie Goodie yum yum!
I am currently sans TV and don't intend to buy another one for a while - I'm getting a hell of a lot more done without it. However, one of my lovely mates brought round the Goodies on DVD for me to watch on my laptop, and I'm saving it for when there is absolutely no more housework to be done. I do miss TimeTeam though :o(
when there is absolutely no more housework to be done
And when would that be? Jo Brand asks, 'How can you tell if it's time to do the washing and ironing? Look in your pants and if you see a penis it's not time'
*gives up on EVER getting to watch The Goodies on DVD*
Hi. MCiOS will be unavailable for most of the day, UK time. Pardon the inconvienence. It should be up by mid-to-late afternoon.
It's baaaaaaaack!
Easter
Everyone enjoying their Easter? I've got some spring cleaning I've been putting off, and some painting I've been putting off, oh, and some other domestic stuff [I've been putting off] - (you get the idea) and I'm waiting to hear whether I've got a job. I would much rather not have been left to stew over the long weekend, truth be told. Hope I get to hear before Thursday . . .
Oh look, there's a robin.
Started sanding down some woodwork to paint it, then realised I'd bought the wrong type of paint. Ho hum. And jerry's back (different flat) so we'll have to get Dave back in to flush him/her out.
When the rob - rob - robin comes ...
[Simons] Stayed at a country pub in Bradford-on-Avon [N Wilts] last night - had an early morning coffee standing out the back and was rewarded with the sight of a plumptious [sp?] robin doing some serious nest-building. In fact, there were plenty of birds scooting back and forth a-laden with twigs and stuff. Call me old-fashioned, but I have to say - it was a sight to gladden my heart.
[Chalks] You're old fashioned.
...
9 su 10! Ottenerlo! Siete buoni! [Spam eliminato -- rab]
Which reminds me, I must write a 'Delete f*@kwit' module.
Hmmm
That was easier than expected. Given me the opportunity to wash off some of the graffitti that's accumulated over the years.
And the flat's just been Daved. I'd forgotten how entertaining he is in his mouse-destroying ways.
Katharine's a little traumatised though. She kind of hoped they would just "go away"....
Delete f*@kwit module
Yikes! looks apprehensive.
The graffiti at the end of the 'So help me God...' game is very weird. It's clearly spam - there's been about one attempt per hour to spam that game (so I've closed it) but it's very odd spam.
And since its whimsy is not entirely contra the spirit of this site, I'm tempted to leave it in...
"Zhili byli"
Having just gone and looked, I think you're right. "Zhili byli" = "Silly billy"?
...
Ich besichtige deinen Aufstellungsort wieder bald fur sicheres! Übrigens, bin ich ein Arschloch
Schön. Looks like the link threshold might have to be reduced if this game is starting to be targetted.
spam
What is the purpose of those links in random websites anyway? Is it supposed to get picked up by search engines or something?
[snorgle] I dunno really. Just presumed its cos they're twats!
spurious links
[snorgle] Yes, but I suspect it may be counter-productive. If link spam is not removed, that suggests the site it's on is moribund. If the link spam is removed, that means the site is live and the spam is unwelcome. And if the search engines score -1000000 page rank points when a link is removed, and only +1 page rank point when a link is added, spam-that-gets-removed very rapidly depresses the original inflated page rank scores. I assume the search engines' page rank algorithm is a bit more sophisticated than that, but I think that captures the gist of what they can do.
So, err, should I remove it then?
Anti-spam
Hell, yes. :-)
Duly dusted.
Cross
Currently contemplating how to vote in the impeding McElection. (Of course, I might completely forget as The Big Day is two days later, and I might have things on my mind). I live in a "battleground" constituency, apparently, but you'd hardly know it - the only people to have been vigorously campaigning are the Conservatives who I think come 4th in our consituency... The basic problem is that I'm not keen on the SNP's attitude towards independence. Although this would appear irrelevant in a Labour/LibBum marginal it's pretty obvious that the LibBums are going to hold the balance of power whatever happens, so losing a seat to Labour might help stave off the SNP threat. But then I'm not that big on Labour either... Quite probably the smartest thing to do is to vote tactically on the FPP half of the coupon, and vote idealistically in the Regional List half. But then, who to chose from this lot...?
[rab] If you vote Labour or LibDem, either could contribute toward the continuation of the Lib/Lab coalition, as the SNP wouldn't win the seat anyway. OTOH, if the SNP look like they're in with a chance, you need to vote for the party most likely to hold them off (which I would guess would be the LDs in Edin South, unless the boundary changes have altered things). Personally, given the state of the planet, I tend to vote Green in regional lists (e.g. GLA and EU elections) as it seems to be the only way for them to ever win a seat. Don't really agree with all their policies but I naively trust that it helps with pushing the environment a little further up the agenda.
(For that matter, I notice that the polls are suggesting the Greens could fall back to 1 MSP this time (from 7 last), so if you want to help shore up their position, Green would be a good way to go in the lists).
upcoming elections
I've just received my polling card for next month's Assembly election, so I've been pondering too. I live in a Labour donkey district, so it can feel a bit pointless, but then there are the regional lists to vote for as well. Libdems would seem to be the most likely to get in on this one, but I'm greatly annoyed at the vast quantity of crappy "newspapers" they keep pushing through my letterbox. One of them wasn't even identified as party political except in teeny-tiny writing at the very bottom of the back page.
Green with MP
[Projoy] A crap reason for voting green would be that I actually know, and like, the third person on the regional list (we currently have 2 on our regional list).
[snorgle] Oh dear! I often hear other people complain that they'll vote for x party because "they were the only one that bothered to send me anything saying what they believed in". Damned if they do, damned if they don't, clearly!
election bumf
[Projoy]The stuff that comes out around election time is pointless, and consists of blatant attempts at rubbishing the opposition, with little talk of their own policies. The libdems do actually send round little circulars even when it's not near an election, but they are such obvious little puff pieces I pay them no mind.
[rab] That's such a content-free candidacy that you almost wonder if it's some cheeky Channel 4 documentary maker trying to demonstrate that you can sell any old crap to the electorate.
Apologies for any inconvenience, but due to the increased rate of spamming you no longer get any 'free' links (except ones to other pages on mc5). You still can post links, but need to enter the code word which should be familiar from a similar set-up at MCiOS. If you need any help, email me.
PS: the codeword box appears when you "Stand' or 'Preview'.
Code Word
Will you be offering a "forgot the code word?" auto e-mailing thing like google does for passwords?
Just kidding. I think I can hazard a guess in the unlikely event I wish to post a link.
Just kidding. I think I can hazard a guess in the unlikely event I wish to post a link.
Password Reminders
I envision a reminder of the form, 'Dear Duncan Goodhew. This letter has some handy hints for how to keep your hair in tip-top condition. I suggest you have it framed and pin it up on your bedroom wall. Yours sincerely, Mrs Trellis.'
It does raise the issue of allowing people to post on the first go -- although arguably if you're posting a link you should be made to preview, so maybe this is a good thing. I've been tempted to make the field an ordinary one with the prompt "Shoe size:" or something in front of it. Regular players will know that most of the time they don't have to put anything there and anyone else can type anything they want and it won't hurt anything.
[Dan] A preview does appear, and since links are often mis-entered, this is probably not a bad idea.
[rab] Sorry, I came across as critical of the idea in that last post. I think it is a splendid way of limiting the unwanted spam without preventing links at all. Sorry for any confusion.
[SM] No criticism was inferred.
Ooh, a free slot.
I think an actual game of MC should go in it.
Yikes!
I leave this job on Friday 27th April after NINE whole years. Plan A is to get another job (another interview on Monday...) Plan B is to copywrite on a freelance basis and otherwise go temping my way towards a living, which I like the sound of. It means I can be more flexible about when I work, and as The Bloke's weekend always starts on a Saturday evening, not a Friday like most people's, this might be useful. But it depends whether or not I can find enough clients. I'm thinking of some sort of business activity doing for myself what I spent the past nine years developing for [a major client]. I would imagine a temping job might come first though - but that's no bad way to collect clients. I've done it that way before. I have friends building me a website as we speak...
More soon
More soon
Just curious
[rab] The odds of it happening are relatively low, but how would the system cope if a spam-bot found the new game link, followed it, and deposited its crap there? [pen] Good luck. I hope to come Simon Smith Tech Writer Limited myself, very shortly.
Hmmm, not sure. The rubric isn't spam checked, but I could add that. Also I should check that the new script doesn't hand out the form when there are no slots available; that way, a spammer's unlikely ever to see the source of the page or have enough opportunities to try it out and see how it works.
Into The Unknown
[pen] have no fears m'dear - you're more than capable of making a success of whatever you end up doing. Fortune really does favour the brave ...
Yikes
[Pen] Going it alone is scary, but rewarding. You may find it hard the first 18 months, but you will never want to be a wage slave again. Make sure to use the tax system to your advantage. Make a fat loss (on paper) for a while, and watch out for IR35 if you get a long contract.
[Pen] Congrats! Knowing just how stupid your employer is, rather than being frequently surprised, is the best bit of being self-employed.
Btw, you heard it here first, but I'm planning that by the end of 2007, I'll have converted my skittle alley into a microbrewery to supply both my own pub and the free trade/festivals. It'll be the only brewery in the City of Leicester. With pub and brewery combined, I could (just about) achieve my ambition and have a £1m turnover by 2010. Thank God only half of it will be cash!
Btw, you heard it here first, but I'm planning that by the end of 2007, I'll have converted my skittle alley into a microbrewery to supply both my own pub and the free trade/festivals. It'll be the only brewery in the City of Leicester. With pub and brewery combined, I could (just about) achieve my ambition and have a £1m turnover by 2010. Thank God only half of it will be cash!
[Phil] Congratulations on your plan - hope it goes well! BTW, how are you settling in? ;-)
[pen] Hooray for freelancing, for all the reasons gil said (actually I'm on staff at the moment, but I behave like a freelancer and they let me, so hooray indeed for that).
Beer Career
Phil - fantastic news! Do you need someone to do your PR? ;o)
what's brewing
...and - do you need a brewer?
Brewing Up
Yes indeed, I fancy 'Trappist' as my next career move...
(Chalky) A brewster, shurely?
penelope
You'll probably never look back. May your previous employer's business go bankrupt in six months.
[penelope] Thanks - I'm getting involved in a bit of PR satuff at the moment, now that you mention it. I'm liable to have my 15 minutes (seconds, to be honest) of fame in video format on the Everards recruitment web site. There may also be a blog on the way - again for my supplier's recruitment purposes.
[Chalky] Sorry, no brew(st)ers required , although I sense a need for a multitude of tasters.
[Chalky] Sorry, no brew(st)ers required , although I sense a need for a multitude of tasters.
I taste therefore I am
[Phil] Me! Me! Me! OOOh! Pick Me!
*is calculating the taxi fare from Leicester to Derby*
[INJ] Well, we're one bus journey (or £5 taxi) from the railway station, meaning you could take in the "sister brewery" at The Brunswick on your way (both ways!).
ok
Time to play the game
not a penguin, not in need of picking up, so don't even mention it
Hi HHH and DX
*is calculating cost of Eurostar from here to London, crossing london, exorbitant rail fare to wherever 'the station' is plus overnight accommodation...*
*is like a pppterodactlyl, with a silent stammer*
Hey, it's rude to spit.
Wait! "Tuj" begins with "P"? The obsession is explained!
[CdM] Haha! Sadly no more than the fact that having typed the question once, my browser then suggested it the next time I started typing in a question beginning with P. And after the first couple of times, I couldn't kick the habit...
By the way, if we ever had a day when everyone had to start their names with P (you know, just in case) you could insert some extra letters and call yourself PaChYdErM.
By the way, if we ever had a day when everyone had to start their names with P (you know, just in case) you could insert some extra letters and call yourself PaChYdErM.
*bites her tongue*
(Ptuj) That should go down well.
Hmm, I was in an odd mood earlier. Ah well. Pachyderm's a funny word.
(Ptuj) Not if you're an elephant.
I've already got a silent letter; I don't think I can pull off two without being highly contrived.
I've already got a silent letter; I don't think I can pull off two without being highly contrived.
[Pnobbly] I hope CdM isn't an elephant. I'm worried it might have been insulting somehow (it certainly wasn't) after Néa's comment.
That was me
(that should have been "ptongue")
[Tuj] I didn't interpret it as insulting, just funny :-)
[Ptuj] For the record [if anyone happens to be keeping one] I chuckled - in fact, I chuckled in a considerably overblown way, but still couldn't think of anything remotely amusing to add. PaChyDerM! yay :-)
How many times have I told you people? DON'T THINK OF AN ELEPHANT!!
[PC Halky] It's dangerous to hypothesise like that... before you know it everyone's names begin with P & there aren't elephants everywhere!
Oh and
[Néa] Thank you :) wasn't sure if you'd meant to bite the tongue as in to hold in some kind of remark.
Oh well...
*waves*
Tries hard not to think about elephants...
*thinks of a giraffe*
What the hell have I started?
[the original ppp] I think you'll find we're all quite easily led.
Hand up
Can I have a pee please, sir? Everyone else has had one.
*spits*
in uniform
'ello 'ello 'ello - what's all this silliness then?
Look out! It's the filth!
*makes rude gesture*
Oh well...
[Phil] BZZZZT! Repetition of 'Oh well...'
[P Please, Bobter!] I'm surprised you're not called Porter, I Say!. Though I think your name's better :)
We're not exactly making poetry.
*feels perturbed*
Only kidding. Just two more days left to work here - and I got my redundancy cheque too - hurrah! The Freelance career starts next week, just as soon as I've signed on.
Good luck with the freelancing, with the cheque I think one of the first things you need to do is line up something cravenly self indulgent and includes lots of pampering.
cheers Pinkpot. (That name is WAY too cute!) Re: pampering - I'm already in the process of acquiring a summer working-from-home wardrobe off Ebay. I just sold some of my clothes on there (the things I really never wear any more) and raised enough cash to get myself a website and pay a friend to set it up for me :o)
Oh my god pppen, your ppp's are expanding. Good luck with being free. New clothes sound fab, I certainly approve of shopping!
[pen] What special clothes do you need for working from home?
[Praak] I suppose it depends on the risk assessment - how dangerous is pppen's abode, I wonder?
[Raak] Special working-from-home clothes? You have to ask? pffft... Actually, just stuff that isn't business suits or officewear, and isn't scruffs or going-out clothes. I don't seenm to have anything in-between.
[penelope] Pyjamas often works for me. :)
I'm a big fan of pyjamas too. But that often leads to naps which can get out of hand. And then I get nothing done.
*is intrigued by the concept of 'naps that get out of hand'*
"They even *sleep* in clothes"
The only reason I have a pair of pajamas is for hopefully rare stays in hospital. Likewise a dressing gown.
[Raak] So what do you wear to hang out the washing and put out the wheeliebin?
[pen] Rollers, I bet. [Raak] Actually, I tend not to wear jim-jams in the Summer, meaning I sometimes 'work' from home nekkid.
Re: I don't seem to have anything in-between
Hidden text
CENSORED - too filthy[pen] My usual at-home wear: t-shirt and tracksuit bottoms.
I've never understood the need for special at-home wear - dinner jackets are so hard wearing you can simply have them on all the time!
Hello everyone. If anyone is near Tunbridge Wells and wants to see the touring ISIHAC on 17 Sep, let me know as I've got an extra ticket. (sorry for crosspost)
That was me.
[Darre] Careful what you start doing.
[Parre] Pu has a a point
We are now chemical symbols, and Pd (CdM?) has a stutter.
oi!
Day One in the Freelance PR house... and I'm just writing the copy for my new website. Going to see my webmaster tonight with a CD full of images and text. Eeeek! But then again, his wife is cooking dinner for us, so that's OK :o)
Web sites
[PRen] I hope it's going to validate OK, otherwise the local pedants will be down on you like a ton of extremely neatly-stacked bricks. :-) PS my site doesn't validate properly ATM so I can talk.
After a few months of lacklustre campaigning, we came home last night to find 22 separate election leaflets on our doorstep.
[Pr] I'm neutral
Hooray. At last I can join in the dysnomenclatural fun!
ope
[Simons] I just bought the domain yesterday, and there's no coding in it yet... so I'm in the clear ATM... phew!
elelctions
I've had loads of the usual bumfy election leaflets (including the delightful BNP, and the UKIP (who have promised to work towards dismantling the Assembly if elected). I had a couple of hand addressed (literally - the wrong number was put on one of the envelopes and then crossed and corrected) ones too from the Lib Dems. In fact, I mistook it for a real letter, as it was hand-written inside (although copied and printed) and not, at first, in the usual style of an election leaftlet. I am so jaded, however, that it really annoys me, because I know it's just a ruse. I don't who to vote for really, out of the main parties(ok, not counting the conservatives, BNP, UKIP and any other wackos).
heavy as lead
I've not had any election leaflets. Or canvassers. I feel quite left out. But the labour party could nominate a red sheep to stand and it'd get in no problems. Pah. Not sure if I'm green, orange or blue this time. Anything but not red or the evil BNP.
Wackos
New Labour not wackos? Where's that then?
The reds have given up around here, so I'm voting for the oranges and hope I don't get a fundamentalist Protestant with an aggressive incomprehensible accent. It's a genuine contest, (start rant) quite unlike the Parliamentiary elections where voting is pointless unless for the Tory, who always wins and always will win. (End rant)
wackos
Just because I didn't *list* New Labour, doesn't mean they're not included. I'm sure the BNP consider everyone else wackos, after all. But I pretty much live in a donkey district for labour too, so I don't know why the other parties try so hard. I suppose it's because there are Lib Dems surrounding us, so they hope that population movement might eventually work in their favour.
Outage
Apologies for the outage this morning - I have received (without asking) an explanation from the hosting company so I'm pretty impressed with the service I'm getting from them.
Anyway, that's me off work now for the wedding on Saturday...
Unusually
Hmmm... well things seem to be on a knife-edge here, and I get the feeling that a few switches from LibDem to Labour in our constituency could make the difference between the SNP coming first and second. Still undecided as to how to vote though - I also feel that as support for Labour has probably generally dropped, the seat is probably not as marginal as it was. And in any case, if there's only a couple of seats in it, either the SNP or Labour will be able to form a majority through a coalition with the LibDems so these few votes are unlikely to be crucial. Labour coming out in front would presumably prevent the LibDems cosying up with the SNP though...
[rab] Well, I hope it wasn't you who tipped over the edge and attacked the ballot boxes, provoked perhaps by the stress of the impending nuptials.
[rab] And the very best of luck for today (altho I doubt you'll see this till after the event!
)
[Projoy] Thank you very much. It went perfectly despite our ludicrously complicated arrangements. And I am very much enjoying having a wife.
.. raising a glass
Congratulations rab and Mrs rab :-)
[rab] "I am very much enjoying having a wife." What? As you type?
It's called "multi-tasking", Projoy
[rab] Hurrah! Congratulations! We want wedding pictures!
"having a wife"
[rab] So long as it's your own wife you're enjoying having, fair play to you old son!
Ladies and gentlemen...
Mrs rab
Well many many many congrats. Mrs rab looks lovely, and your father in law's beard is the stuff of legend. Shame you had to have 'linda sneddon' stamped on your pate for the occasion.
I just think it's so cool we can see previews of the pictures so soon. Can't wait to see the actual prints. We're really pleased - she was a pin in the internet and was absolutely fantastic on the day, and I can't fault the composition even if I am gurning in most of them...
Photographer
Mine did six hundred and put 'em all on the internet, and then gave us the DVD with the high quality and internet quality versions. My wife was asked to choose 50 (and chose 134) which we had printed A4 size - a big mistake as you can't put 'em in an album. I'm sure we'll get round to doing an album, just not yet. The internet quality versions are online but a bit crap.
rab wedding
Scotland, yet not a single kilt, dirk or claymore in view. No doubt there was a hidden piper playing "Haste Ye to the Wedding" behind that large stone wall. Please accept my best wishes for you and your bride, rab. The pictures are very cool.
Congrats rab and mrs rab, it looks lovely. Best wishes and lots of luck to you both
[Rab] Congratulations, although I shall be disappointed in you if you respond to any of these messages in the next few days.
[rab] What they all said.
[rab] Particularly what INJ said...
Stacking
[rab] What CdM said!
supporting cast
[rab] like what he said.
[rab] What Tuj said, but the opposite of what CdM said.
[rab] 'nuff said.
[rab] What Projoy would have said that I would have said, had you asked him if it is true that Tuj never tells the truth.
[CdM] What did you say?
[rab] What CdM said Projoy said Tuj said CdM said and so say all of us.
Right.
*mimes*
the Great British Public
The highlight of the weekend was the Eurovision song contest, there has since been a barrage in the press blaming Scootch for an appaling camp song, have they forgotten that the song was the choice of GBP in a tele-vote. The danger from the press is that they tend to take it all too seriously. However, the political voting was more obvious than ever, before it was just pairing which did not effect the final result and was a bit of an in-joke. Now we have block voting with a split between old and new Europe. The UK should not send its best but maintain but send more of the same next year to Belgrade.
1 Serbia - 268
2 Ukraine - 235
3 Russia - 207
4 Turkey - 163
5 Bulgaria - 157
6 Belarus - 145
7 Greece - 139
8 Armenia - 138
9 Hungary - 128
10 Moldova - 109
11 Bosnia/Herzegovina - 106
12 Georgia - 97
13 Romania - 84
14 Macedonia - 73
15 Slovenia - 66
16 Latvia - 54
17 Finland - 53
18 Sweden - 51
19 Germany - 49
20 Spain - 43
21 Lithuania - 28
22 France - 19
23 United Kingdom - 19
24 Ireland - 5
1 Serbia - 268
2 Ukraine - 235
3 Russia - 207
4 Turkey - 163
5 Bulgaria - 157
6 Belarus - 145
7 Greece - 139
8 Armenia - 138
9 Hungary - 128
10 Moldova - 109
11 Bosnia/Herzegovina - 106
12 Georgia - 97
13 Romania - 84
14 Macedonia - 73
15 Slovenia - 66
16 Latvia - 54
17 Finland - 53
18 Sweden - 51
19 Germany - 49
20 Spain - 43
21 Lithuania - 28
22 France - 19
23 United Kingdom - 19
24 Ireland - 5
Eastern Bloc-voting
Lithuania must have been absolutely atrocious.
As a gentle riposte to all those - including Wogan - bleating about political/neighbourly voting, I'm assured that this would have been the result of the contest had the votes of western European countries only had been counted:
1 Serbia 128 (actually 1st)
2 Turkey 111 (4th)
3 Ukraine 111 (2nd)
4 Russia 84 (3rd)
5 Bulgaria 80 (5th)
6 Hungary 79 (9th)
7 Armenia 76 (8th)
8 Greece 69 (7th)
9 Romania 58 (13th)
10 Bosnia Herzegovina 56 (11th)
11 Sweden 51 (18th)
12 Moldova 50 (10th)
13 Finland 41 (17th)
14 Germany 40 (19th)
15 Belarus 38 (6th)
16 Georgia 31 (12th)
17 Spain 27 (20th)
18 Latvia 24 (16th)
19 United Kingdom 19 (23rd)
20 Lithuania 16 (21st)
21 Slovenia 13 (15th)
22 France 8 (22nd)
23 FR of Macedonia 8 (14th)
24 Ireland 0 (24th)
Very little variation in the top five, meaning that actually the west voted for the same top songs as the east.
1 Serbia 128 (actually 1st)
2 Turkey 111 (4th)
3 Ukraine 111 (2nd)
4 Russia 84 (3rd)
5 Bulgaria 80 (5th)
6 Hungary 79 (9th)
7 Armenia 76 (8th)
8 Greece 69 (7th)
9 Romania 58 (13th)
10 Bosnia Herzegovina 56 (11th)
11 Sweden 51 (18th)
12 Moldova 50 (10th)
13 Finland 41 (17th)
14 Germany 40 (19th)
15 Belarus 38 (6th)
16 Georgia 31 (12th)
17 Spain 27 (20th)
18 Latvia 24 (16th)
19 United Kingdom 19 (23rd)
20 Lithuania 16 (21st)
21 Slovenia 13 (15th)
22 France 8 (22nd)
23 FR of Macedonia 8 (14th)
24 Ireland 0 (24th)
Very little variation in the top five, meaning that actually the west voted for the same top songs as the east.
Surely people don't still watch this ludicrous glitterfest except to mock it? When it started it was regarded as the height of uncool, or "square", as the word was then, by us teenagers and seems since then to have disappeared completely up its own arse in a frenzy of baroque absurdity. Perhaps I'm taking it too seriously, and actually I haven't seen it for a few years, to tell the truth.
[Rosie] Went to my mate's Eurovision party on Saturday night (as I usually do each year) - great fun! We had international food, voted along with the contest, and indulged in much mockery.
[Rosie] I caught it about ten years ago, and Wogan was just taking the piss all the way through. I assume it hasn't got any more serious since then.
[Rosie] It was uncool, then for a while it became cool, but only in an ironic way, then the irony got less ironic. I'm sure it'll become uncool again shortly.
(UK, Raak, Pj) That's all good news, and rather what I had expected. Next year I must watch it, preferably in company, not sober, and learn to be silly again.
If you look more closely at the group shot, you will spot at least one kilt.
The honeymoon was fab, by the way - even if Italy is the only country to have spurned The Contest, so we ended up watching it in our hotel room on German TV with the sound coming through a tinny speaker so it rather lost a lot of its normal impact. However, we developed a taste for Chianti Classico in the process so it's not all bad. Anyway, after a week of olive oil and various gnocci we're off to have a dirty curry.
Hurrah! Nice wedding pictures, though I concur on the subject of the distressing lack of kilts. Also can't believe you watched the Eurovision whatchamacallit on your honeymoon. See you soon, no doubt!
Celtic Kilties
My original observation on kilts and other Scottish accoutrements has been misinterpreted due to my poor choice of phrase. I was trying to congratulate rab on the dearth rather than complaining. I would expect any festive event north of the Cheviots to be infested with man-skirts, basket-handled swords, hollowed-out-rabbit purses and bagpipes. The rab/Mrs rab-to-be wedding appeared to be suitably festive but infestation-free.
Congratulations again, rab, on your union with the delightful Mrs rab. May good luck follow you all your days and occasionally catch you up.
Congratulations again, rab, on your union with the delightful Mrs rab. May good luck follow you all your days and occasionally catch you up.
*waves*
Waves from Holland - the flat bit.
(pen) That's all of it, isn't it? Reminds me of a harmless little joke:-
Nice old lady: Which is the Bloody Tower?
Beefeater: All of it, ma'am.
Going Dutch
[pen] Still going strong with Windy? Cool! Isn't Holland pictures queue.
flat out
[Ispers] I certainly am and it certainly is! And it's so bloody neat!
Game slot
Anyone for Reverse MC? Or any other suggestions?
Honeymoon Photos
[rab] Seems like you spent some time out of doors...
[IS,P!] I tend not to take pics indoors, partly cos it's often Not Allowed, and partly cos they tend to come out badly.
[rab] My point being that it's traditional not to spend much time out of doors whilst honeymooning. Emphasis on the 'mooning'.
Ah yes, well... erm.
Vinyl > CD - advice sought
Seeing as it's been a bit quiet in here and I am aware of some who post on this site are music buffs I hope you don't mind if I ask for a bit of advice.
I have been toying with the idea of transferring audio from some of my vinyl records to C.D.. At this point I have found one program which seems to work well, though I've not explored it fully, and wondered if any of you could recommend or otherwise software that does this task. The program I have to hand (time-limited) is called PolterbitS. Takers?
I have been toying with the idea of transferring audio from some of my vinyl records to C.D.. At this point I have found one program which seems to work well, though I've not explored it fully, and wondered if any of you could recommend or otherwise software that does this task. The program I have to hand (time-limited) is called PolterbitS. Takers?
vinyl and cassettes
[Dujon]I am in the process of converting all my vinyl, it can be a long process, but I am not familiar the programme you mentioned. What I done! and CDs arranged by colour.
Rainbow CDs
Thanks, Inkspot. I'll check out the Audacity prog. The one I have costs money, which is something I am allergic to spending, whereas the one I have been evaluating, whilst reasonable, is around AUD 50.
You are right about the time involved. I've been recording (real time) then 'de-clicking' the audio (faster but still takes a while) and then breaking the recorded stuff into tracks (partially automatic but also involves manual input for confirmation purposes).
The cabling is not a problem. Thanks again, good sir.
You are right about the time involved. I've been recording (real time) then 'de-clicking' the audio (faster but still takes a while) and then breaking the recorded stuff into tracks (partially automatic but also involves manual input for confirmation purposes).
The cabling is not a problem. Thanks again, good sir.
Damn
First par. third sentence doesn't make sense. I think you'll understand the gist of it.
I downloaded Audacity at the weekend. I'm currently using it to make the music rounds in my quizzes a bit harder - e.g. by mixing two songs together, or playing things bakcwards.
Bad English
Glad you were able to sift out some sense Dujon, that's my CSE grade 2 coming to the surface yet again.
Phil, you are very wicked person ;^)
I may well pinch one or two of your brilliantly twisted ideas for the music quiz I run each Monday at the MSN group The Village
Phil, you are very wicked person ;^)
I may well pinch one or two of your brilliantly twisted ideas for the music quiz I run each Monday at the MSN group The Village
So what's the best free stuff to use to rip DVDs, then? I want to rip the DVD of BLOC on Broadway and put my bit on YouTube for everyone to laugh at.
Isn't anyone going to say anything? Hmmm. OK. An announcement. I have just picked the first five strawberries from my patch, and they are perfect whoppers. Yum yum.
Congratulations on your patience in allowing them to grow to that size. I'd've been checking them every day and wolfing them at the first sign of edibility.
Strawberries? There's posh, isn't it? Best I can do is a few blackberries and chives. I also have quince bush, but they're disgusting.
preserves
Quinces - well we did try for quince jam from ours once, but it wasn't really worth the bother. We just grow it for its ornamental value.
quince mince
[Rosie] I'm sure someone from your local WI will be able to make good use of them. It's one of those fruits that needs a bit of a renaissance - it's happened to rhubarb, and I reckon crab apples are in line too. I've got my first ever crop of rhubarb this year too - it was sown THREE YEARS ago, and this is the first time there's been anything to show for it! Strawberries and rhubarb together are a match made in heaven.
Mixed up
Really, penelope? I enjoy both rhubarb and strawberries but have not ever entertained the thought of combining them. Poor me. Is it some sort of sweet-and-sour treat or should the rhubarb (funny name that) be well sugared prior to consumption?
[IS,P] I cannot help you. I don't possess a DVD burner.
[IS,P] I cannot help you. I don't possess a DVD burner.
strawbarb and rhuberries
[Dujon] Yup. Strawberry and rhubarb crumble is food of the gods.
Served with Ambrosia, I assume.
(pen) Can't stand rhubarb. But blackberry and apple crumble, the very thought..... drools...... You're quite a gardener, then? Not I; just keep it tidy, keep the wilderness under control.
Necktie of the Gods
Rhubarb fool with fresh raspberries! Our rhubarb's just about pickable, but the raspberries are still resolutely green at the moment.
foolishness
[INJ] Then make your pre-fool (rhubarb puree) now, freeze it until the raspberries are ripe, then add the cream to make the fool and add the fresh raspberries.
Crumbles!
Sorry, ladies and gentlemen, crumbles are to me similar to shortbread. Should I have some medical condition which involved over salivating then each or either could be a solution. As I do not suffer from such a condition (yet) both species of those concoctions that seem to mimic the absorbent quality of some sort of surgical swab are well and truly off the menu.
[Dujon] Perhaps the crumble was too thick, and the fruit below too dry. A good crumble should not be that dry.
[Rosie] I'm also have a revulsion towards rhubarb. Also, I agree with your blackberry and apple comments - fantastic combination. I'm guessing that there's a decent chance you don't like gooseberries either?
[Rosie] I'm also have a revulsion towards rhubarb. Also, I agree with your blackberry and apple comments - fantastic combination. I'm guessing that there's a decent chance you don't like gooseberries either?
(Phil) No, dead right. I have an overall distaste for fruit and vegetables but like certain ones like bananas, apples, prunes (but not plums) and most berries (not goose-) plus carrots, peas, beans, beetroot and oddly enough, spinach and swedes. That's enough for a reasonable diet as I tend to put away quite large amounts of these things.
Detox
[Phil] You could well be correct, but don't tell the cook (Mrs Duj) that I said that.
[Rosie] I must be lucky as there are few vegetables or fruit that I dislike. Some I enjoy more than others and just a few (asparagus, like oysters, puts me off because of the smell). Others (mango, pawpaw, rock melon) I decline, partly because of their smell and partly their texture . . . slimy). Unlike the stereotypical child I enjoy Brussels sprouts, cabbage and cauliflower and will eat potato 'til the cows come home. Generally speaking though it is unusual for me to eat fruit even though I am aware that nutritionists advise eating such on a regular basis; perhaps I get my fill from the grape. Mind you, when in season, a tomato sprinkled lightly with salt and eaten as you would an apple is a delight.
[Rosie] I must be lucky as there are few vegetables or fruit that I dislike. Some I enjoy more than others and just a few (asparagus, like oysters, puts me off because of the smell). Others (mango, pawpaw, rock melon) I decline, partly because of their smell and partly their texture . . . slimy). Unlike the stereotypical child I enjoy Brussels sprouts, cabbage and cauliflower and will eat potato 'til the cows come home. Generally speaking though it is unusual for me to eat fruit even though I am aware that nutritionists advise eating such on a regular basis; perhaps I get my fill from the grape. Mind you, when in season, a tomato sprinkled lightly with salt and eaten as you would an apple is a delight.
The grape
(Duj) Do you mean grapes or do you mean "the grape"? Heavens to Murgatroyd, you're not a boozer, are you? Disgraceful.
I choose my words carefully, Rosie. ;-(
Hic!
[Rosie] I've often wondered if I can include malted barley and hops in my "five-a-day"...
olive what he's having
[Phil] Likewise, a dish of olives with a G&T must count for something.
[Pen] You forgot the slice of lemon.
We once had a discussion as to whether the currants in squashed-fly biscuits counted as "a portion".
(Phil) Gawd, not you 'n' all. BTW do you ever do Fuller's London Pride or Young's Ordinary? Good in their own way. (rab) I'd say yes because the recommended five is a ludicrous number. Five apples? With all that fibre you'd never be off the po.
odd fruit
I had some durian ice-cream when I was in Paris the Bank Holiday weekend - wonderful taste, and while it didn't pong as much as the actual fruit, I did get some very odd looks from the neighbouring tables.
[Rosie] I don't like London Pride (althuough ESB and Golden Pride are veryy much my cup of tea). I've nothing against it, I just don't like it. I did have Young's Bitter here a few weeks ago, and it drank very well for a low alcohol beer :-)
Any other questions?
Oooh! I have an interview tomorrow for a six-week job paying Loadsamoney :oD
Booze
Does a glass of white wine fortheladies count less than a glass of red towards the daily fruit allowance, I wonder.
MCiOS unavailable
Well, I took a gamble on a remote distribution upgrade, and lost. It won't be back until late your time tomorrow. Apologies.
MCiOS unavailable
[Dan] Oh no! Whatever shall we do in the meantime?
[ISP] Personally, I'm considering temporary suicide. :)
Wonderful to see the BBC setting the standard for English:
Kylie Minogue is the first woman to be honoured with this year's Music Industry Trusts' Award, in recognition of her 20-year career as a pop star.
(ISP) Can't see much wrong with that unless it's the apostrophe. But it could be the Award of the Music Industry Trusts, it there is more than one of them. Possibly there isn't, in which case it's wrong.
[Rosie] How many awards do they give each year? Presumably she's the only person honoured with this year's award, so it's rather obvious that she's also the first woman to be honoured with this year's award. She's also the last.
[Rosie] I think what's wrong with it is the words "Kylie Minogue".
[Rosie] What Phil said. [Raak] I find Kylie Minogue quite pleasing on the eyes, not so pleasing on the ears.
((Phil) Yes, "This year" should be at the beginning and "this year's" scrapped and replaced by "the". (ISP) I've never found her really attractive and she's now metamorphosing into the all-Australian auntie.
talking of the BBC
I was in fits of giggles today when News24 showed pictures of the prime minister and other politicians in the house of commons with a big red banner beneath saying 'sex offenders'.
Popsicles
[IS,P] While admitting to the fact that I'm a 'face man' I do think that K.M. is not pretty. In fact I think she's downright ugly.
[Rosie] "the all-Australian auntie? Surely the world has had enough of that via the 'art' of Dame Edna? Here, have some glads, I'm off to the bunker for a while.
[Rosie] "the all-Australian auntie? Surely the world has had enough of that via the 'art' of Dame Edna? Here, have some glads, I'm off to the bunker for a while.
(Dujon) I find Dame Edna very amusing. No, really. What I meant was La Minogue (interesting Manx surname) now looks frumpish, apparently deliberately, because she's not that old.
Kylie's Sunday face
[Dujon] It's the bum that does it for me every time.
Minogue again
There are a few jokes based on her deficient embonpoint.
Skinny Minogue
[Rosie] You haven't seen the photos I've seen, then. Or the video with the bucking bronco. MMMMMmmmmh!
[IS,P] Neither have I...
[IS,P!, UK] I have :-) Kylie has been ever-present in my life since the day I saw her arrive in Ramsey Street, as Lennie Mitchell, and deck Scott Robinson. That was about 1986/7-ish, I think.
(Phil) Yerss.
Manx cats
[Rosie] Really? Though I must admit I've never thought of the root of her family moniker. She's got a sister who is also in the entertainment game - Dannii. I wonder whether she's a tailless type as well.
[Phil] You worry me, old son. Next you'll be telling me that you're a Home and Away follower as well. Eeek!
[Phil] You worry me, old son. Next you'll be telling me that you're a Home and Away follower as well. Eeek!
Go to youtube.com/watch?v=7JdfmB7aXb4
[UK] Incredible you haven't seen this. Perhaps NSFW (unless your colleagues go for Kylie as well).
[Dujon] How very dare you! As if I'd watch that tripe! Although, I will confess that many, many moons ago, I used to watch Sons & Daughters and A Country Practice. Mrs Phil and I were reminiscing about them a couple of days ago. She used to watch The Flying Doctors too, but I never got into it, apart from when I wanted to check out the rumour that the actress who played Maria Ramsey had moved there.
Imports
[Phil] Blimey, how much of our trash to you get over there? Mind you A Country Practice did have a homely sort of feel to it and some of the characters were reasonably portrayed. Not that I watched it of course.
The Devil's Lantern
(Dujon) If we haven't flogged you Big Brother yet you don't know what trash is.
Pumpkins alight
Voyeurism at its lowest ebb, Rosie. We have our own version it seems. 'Turkey slapping' for heaven's sake! Yes, I had a look when it first started all those years ago, but not since. You keep yours and we'll keep ours . . . deal?
Not just Aus, but NZ too..
Mrs Phil used to be quite keen on Shortland Street as well. I think that's abuot it for Aus soaps. One Aus program we used to enjoy, but haven't seen in yonks was Murder Call. It was quite good, dedpite being remarkably cheesy and phenomenally fomulaic.
(Dujon) OK - deal. I read in today's paper that the actual audiences for Big Brother are remarkably small and probably mostly under 25 but the popular press and sometimes the serious press treats it as a serious and important programme. The participants are morons; a distillation of stupidity, and you wouldn't touch them with the proverbial 18-foot disinfected bargepole. Most of my friends have never seen any of it.
Big Brother - big deal
(Rosie) I'm under 25 and I've never seen any of it either. I know that doesn't advance the conversation much; I just haven't said anything for a while and I wanted to feel involoved.
(myself) Involoved?
(Knobbly) I'm sure that word can be rearranged to form the name of a Russian city. I'll come back on that one.
Involoved
If you were devoloved you'd have a nice long palindrome.
[Knobbly] I think you wanted to feel both loved and involved and where therefore forced into coining a new portmanteau word. :)
[myself] "where"? Perhaps I meant "were here".
[myself] Yes, but with or without implied apostrophe?
[myself] Bugger. Whatre the chances of that happening?
(Projoy) 100%. It happened, if I've translated whatre correctly. I should have a lie-down.
[Projoy] I went to Portmanteau once. It was a pilgrimage of sorts, as I am a great fan of The Prisoner.
where?
oops
What I meant was... I saw a big posted advertising the arrival of a new Suzuki car showroom, it might have been somewhere in West Sussex yesterday. Unfortunately the chosen font left a very small gap between two of the words, so it looked like it said: NOWHERE SUZUKI. Cracking.
d'oh
poster*
Just having a moan
Why were marks subtracted from one of my last ever essays for poor use of english because I chose to spell "rôle" with a circumflex in its rightful place?
[Knobbly] Because the marker was a muppet?
Flaking out
Yeah! First snow of the season overnight. Not at my place - thankfully.
(Knobbly) Because the examiner's wife had had an affair with Arsène Wenger. I'd say the circumflex is optional as the word becomes more and more part of the English (note capital) language. It's certainly not wrong.
(Dujon) Do you ever get snow? Must be pretty rare, I'd have thought. Good thunderstorm here this evening with one very close strike (guess 150 yd), the type that produces a crack and a ripping sound.
No, Rosie. Well, nearly no. It is indeed very rare indeed for snow at my level (250 metres above sea level) but it has happened. Last night was the first dusting a little farther up the mountains from me, about a half hour drive. My son lives in the area and my wife headed off to work there this fine morn. I have no idea at this stage as to how much settled but, as is usual in this country, roads were closed and general chaos ensued. I'm guessing that less than 5mm landed, though ice could be the more important factor.
I don't envy you the lightning type storm. That sort of thing is not unusual here at my location. There is a number of stains on the carpet to prove it. :-)
I don't envy you the lightning type storm. That sort of thing is not unusual here at my location. There is a number of stains on the carpet to prove it. :-)
(Rosie) Oops. Yes, I think I changed the capital E when I took the capital U away from 'Use'.
(To whom it may concern) We certainly are having a lot of weather at the moment.
(To whom it may concern) We certainly are having a lot of weather at the moment.
Circumflexes
[Rosie] Did you know that the official French orthography abolished most circumflexes over the letters "i" and "u", except where ambiguity and homographs could occur. This has not bee widely adopted by the French, even though the French Academy encourages it. I know this is not really relevant, but I thought it was QI.
Flash git
(Dujon) I love thunderstorms, the louder and closer the better up to but not including my house. I have found over the years that lightning flashes vary considerably in length and intensity. On Fri 28 Aug 1958 at about 9 in the morning there was a tremendous blinding flash and an almost instantaneous deafening boom. I thought it had hit nextdoor's front garden at the very furthest but again it was about 150 yd away and completely destroyed a large tree. I found out later that it was a high-level storm with cloudbase about 7000 ft so the flash must have been that long. Most are less than a third of that. On the other hand I have seen a flash hit the ground about 20 yds outside the window at work but it produced no more than a loud pop, and was probably very short, a few hundred feet. (Knobbly) Oh yes, there's always the bloody weather, as I found out when I became a junior forecaster and had to do shifts. I left eventually for the pleasures of 8.30 to 5 in the chemical industry and meteorolgy is now just a fairly serious hobby.
Meteorology as well.
(Phil) The French take their language quite seriously, which I think is a good thing, even if they slightly overdo it. We could do with a bit of that in this country but the culture is against it. (Knobbly) I suspect your examiner was "following guidelines" but should have used common sense. To actually dock marks for that is quite absurd.
French
EEEK I've got a French exam on Friday. Had the mock test last Friday and got 40 percent. Need 60 to pass. Already booked myself to redo the year. The embarrassing part is that this is a Francophone country.
(ISP) Where's that, then?
Francophone
[Rosie] Belgium. I use my french under sufferance. Italian at home, English (and some French) at work. French when I need something from a shop or artisan. Flemish never.
mc100
X-POSTED REMINDER: Tomorrow (Fri 22 June) is the 100th Anniversary of Mornington Crescent Station. If you would like to mark this momentous occasion, please come to the traffic island opposite the station before 8pm tomorrow. On the signal, at 8pm sharp, we will all turn to the station, kneel and worship for 30 seconds, then rise and go about our business (which could include going to the pub). Be there or be uncrescent. :)
[IS,P] I thought that the last time I looked you were in Italy, you old globe trotter, you. Or have I got the wrong man?
Turin, Brussels, ...?
[Dujon] You need to pay more attention in MCiOS. I've been here since November.
The surviving parachutist link in the 8-word game
Skipping past his father's beatifully inane explanation of how a parachute works ("The parachute is attached to a container on the skydivers back with a load of lines"), you get to his marvellously tactless quote at the end: "Michael is Michael and he will bounce back from it".
by the way
I think I'm going to move to the Netherlands. eeeek.
pendy Miller
Cool! Give my regards to Captain Snort.
I dunno, you give up work to go freelance, you move country, what next?
[ISP] My money's on a move into politics.
*snigger*
Good lord. If I did, the country would be run along the lines of the WI. And that can be no bad thing. Thrift and jam.
[pen] Are congratulations in the offing?
[Raak] In that I've found a bloke who thinks I'll do for now, yes ;o)
*offs congratulations penwards*
(pen) V. good! I'm pleased for you.
[pen] Though my feminist side wants to know why he's not moving his windmill to London...
[CdM] Planning constraints. And the fact that he has masses of freelance work there and I have very little right now. Now all I have to do is find an English-speaking job in the Netherlands...
Nederlands
I was in the Netherlands last week, and very nice it is too. It seems almost everyone is bilingual (minimal), if disconcertingly sarcastic to my in my native tongue, so I suspect you shouldn't have too many worries.
But, to get you started, zeewolf seems to be catfish.
[pen] Jolly good! Sounds wonderful. And good luck with the job hunting too. I believe there's lots of jobs in Amsterdam which don't require any language (except possibly a few groans), but I'm not sure they're to be recommended....
[penelope] Congrats! Be prepared to be much more proud of your home town once you're an ex-pat.
[pen] These days (and given how cheap it is to fly to London) one imagines one could continue to freelance virtually for UK firms. I hope to do that one day when I move somewhere warmer.
penelope
Congratulations. Will you be wearing wooden shoes?
Passing the Dutch on the left hand side
Congrats and felicitations! Just don't get too into the coffee shop mentality...
klompen
I've got the clogs already. And this is rural South Holland, not Amsterdam (which I have not yet visited). But hold on a minute... there's a REALLY good job going, and I just had a good preliminary telephone interview. If that application continures to go well, plans might change for a year or so!
...
[Mike] yeah, I know, it's all me, me, me... I'll shut up now.
pen
Wow - many good things happening! You deserve 'em all :-)
penelope's luck
Well, I'm sure after the run of foul luck you've had of late that you are due some preening in the sun. If you've got it, flaunt it as they say. Are the wooden shoes really called Klompen?
[SM] Yup. I have a pair. They're outside the back door. They were the first present he bought me :oP
[pen] Smashing stuff I'm reading here :) Will email you
There we are, I go away for a few days and all heaven breaks loose. Congrats.
Dutch courage
[pen] Xpatjobs.com and others
Crescenters European migration continues...
So a Brussels or an Amsterdam pilg would be more likely now. Welcome to the Low Countries!
Jobs in South Holland
[pen] Don't mention the war
[pen] Does Windy like Dilbert?
realises how easy Duits really is!
Perhaps it's just 'cos I know all the dilbert strips so well. decides to take a break from hogging the chat.
Doesn't anyone else have anything to banter about?
Current events aren't really the stuff of banter in the UK at least. It's good to have something pleasant to talk about.
Banter
I vote we continue to discuss pen's love life for a bit longer. All those in favour say 'Aye'.
aye!
Well, we could always talk about the weather instead. *doesn't*
[flerdle] It is a-raining-not in Brussels.
We could talk about Wimbledon. I will start the ball rolling by saying that is a pleasant SW London suburb, and in places rather expensive. The common is a useful place for a wee on the way home in the car though you may have to watch your back. The local football club won the FA Cup in 1988, to the delight of many.
Can I add that it has two tube stations and is in the London Borough of Merton.
I once saw Annette Crosbie at Wimbledon station. I can also add that Wimbledon Park is a very pleasant area and popular with dog-walkers.
It is also an excellent safety move if you are half-splined and have nothing but green tokens.
I've been through it on the train but never stopped there. It gave me the impression of looking quite green.
[Rosie] BTW, I trust you actually stop the car.
I'm making him meet the rest of my family this weekend. That means he will have met BOTH sisters (including the one with a pied-a-terre in Wimbledon, to stay on topic) and my mother. And the most ditsy of my nieces.
Old men and their bladders
(Projoy) Not only that but I get out of it. Brentford to Warlingham (22 miles, 50 mins) is just a little too far after the maximum breathalyser-passing dose of Fuller's London Pride (2½ pints).
The local football club
Is that the club which is now local to Milton Keynes?
(ISP) It is. May it fail in all possible ways for having abandoned its (rather modest) south London fanbase.
You drive 22 miles to drink London Pride?
(Phil) Er, well, not really, but it's there so I have it. I play from time to time in a small swing band. The leader is a Croydon Tram nerd but otherwise quite normal and all the group's CDs have a picture of a tram in some part of the country on the front. It makes my interest in steam locos seem positively mainstream, just like my preferred type of jazz.
[Rosie] Ah, I see. I used to walk 25 minutes to my local most days, even though there were about 20 pubs closer. It's a crappy trendy bar now though. But these days I only have to go downstairs for the best pub in town :-)
What does that have to do with Wimbledon?
Wimbledon
When I'm in London, I usually stay with my Wimbledonian friends. It's a very nice area indeed, and quick to get to from Waterloo.
Friends in Wimbledon
[Néa] How is Great Uncle Bulgaria? He must be getting on a bit by now.
(Phil) Pity that town is over 100 miles away. I drive 7 miles to my "local" (Greyhound, Carshalton). This limits the intake but I don't want a skinful these days.
*waves from Genoa*
[rab] The aquarium's quite impressive - but make sure you go to the right one, there are two. Don't go to the one which is so old it still has trilobites swimming around.
Baking cake
Happy Birthday pen!
Genoa
Is it not the fashion there to stand on street corners and say "wubble" to passers-by?
Sorry rab, I'm in the process of going through my "Black Adder" dvds and I couldn't resist it.
Sorry rab, I'm in the process of going through my "Black Adder" dvds and I couldn't resist it.
Genoa? No I've never seen her before in my life.
[SM] Don't forget to pin a live frog to the shoulder blade!
[pen] Happy Birthday!
[pen] Happy Birthday!
Genoa
<pedant> A quick internet search reveals that the fashion is to stand on a bucket...</pedant>
Blackadder DVDs
[Sierra Mike] I shall invest in those same DVDs. I saw the full set for 18 Euros (twelve quid) in MediaMarkt and am kicking myself that I didn't snap them up.
Pretty Genovese
<superpedant>I think it was also the shoulder braid and one says "bibble", not "wubble".</superpedant>
Genova
[Projoy] You wouldn't let it lie, would you.
[Projoy]Personally, I always thought it was "wibble".
older
Thanks for the birthday wishes. Had a lovely time getting lost in Wiltshire and Somerset with the Dutch Miller, who booked us a romantic night away and bought me dinner. He has now gone back, but left his own clogs on my back doorstep, next to mine. I think it's a sign.
or, if not...
Or if not a sign, a new euphemism: 'Leaving ones clogs on the back doorstep'. A new game, perhaps?
Wibble Wobble
[Knobbly] You're confusing your Blackadders. 'Wibble' should be said with your underpants on your head and a couple of pencils up your nose.
(pen) I hope he hasn't been, er, well, sort of Emptying His Raingauge.
[penelope] He popped his clogs on your back doorstep? What a shame, he sounded like such a nice bloke. My sympathy is with you m'dear.
[pen] Has he left a message in them?
cloggery
[Duj] I sniggered at your black joke, and reminded myself to make sure he has plenty of life insurance.
[Darren] No, the message *is* the clogs, i.e. "I'll be back". I've just booked another flight to go over there for ten days later this month :oD
[Rosie] I suppose we could calibrate the empty clogs on the back door step to become raingauges...
Further cloggery
(pen) Have you heard of the Cloggies, a cartoon strip of yesteryear, by Bill Tidy? They were a clog-dancing group from a northern industrial town. They won their competitions by assault which normally consisted of co-ordinated knees to the goolies of their opponents. One of their members was The Blagdon Amateur Rapist, a middle-aged man who wore nothing but shoes, socks and a tie and humped anything that moved. Let none of this distasteful nonsense detract you from your burgeoning romance.
*waves from Erice, Sicily*
[rab] You still on honeymoon? You seem to have been there for ages.
Euphemism Monday
I was going to tell you I'd just cut down a bush, then remembered what a euphemistically-inclined lot you were and decided against it.
Nah, tis conference season.
Conferentation
[rab] Just think of the happy days to come when digital technology will make it possible to meet with colleagues without having to leave Edinburgh, and reduce your carbon footprint considerably. Why, I bet you're dreaming of it as I type.
I'd love a conference right now. It's freezing here.
[Projoy] With the advent of wireless internet access these days, you have this odd situation where everyone gathers together in a room in an exotic location reading their email during the talks. Very odd.
cut-down-a-bush
[pen] Choose your response:
1. Yikes! The Department of Homeland Security might conside that a threat.
2. Bikini line, is it?
1. Yikes! The Department of Homeland Security might conside that a threat.
2. Bikini line, is it?
the lesser of two weevils
[IS,P!] I don't like either !
In other news, I'm just getting ready for a camping trip this weekend, whilst keeping an eye on the torrential rain out there... yikes!
In other news, I'm just getting ready for a camping trip this weekend, whilst keeping an eye on the torrential rain out there... yikes!
camping
[penelope] Will you be taking the klompen? Are you worried this inclement weather will cause dry rot in the instep?
de-camping
Bottled out of camping in the end. Drove home 120 miles after the party. Got home at 4am. It was getting light and STILL RAINING
(pen) V. sensible, but be grateful for small mercies. It didn't get light here until midday on Friday.
more news
Had one (preliminary) interview today, I have another interview tomorrow, then flying to the Netherlands on Saturday with two recruitment agency interviews in Rotterdam next Friday, and possibly another interview back here on Wednesday 8th. This might have something to do with the fact that I still haven't decided where I want to live, or what I want to do.
Gadding About
penelope, you are running around like a teenager. I heartily approve. Luck.
Yeah, it sounds like the same kind of exercise as trying to get a university place through clearing when you don't have quite the right qualifications for the thing you REALLY want to do, but you *could* go to somewhere else to do part of it and work it around a bit. :o(
BTW, does anyone know how Liz got on during her first day in the new job?
BTW, does anyone know how Liz got on during her first day in the new job?
Clearing
I trust that refered to the job hunt and not the Man Waiting in Rotterdam?
Furthermore
[penelope] What is it that you really want to do? If you need a "holdover job" that doesn't fit the bill, keep looking while you work, knowing you can quit when you get the perfect offer (unlike university). I can't belive that for someone as obviously mobile as you are, the right job isn't out there somewhere, or will be soon.
[SM] You're right. The job hunt. I went to see 2 recruitment companies in Rotterdam this morning, and they both seem to think I can find a decent job here, doing PR/Marketing/Editing stuff. I'm sitting at the Man's desk in Rotterdam right now, while he's in a meeting, and inventing a letter of application for one of the vacancies that one of the agencies seemed to think was up my straat.
(pen) Do you need to speak reasonable Dutch to get a job in Rotterdam? I know they can nearly all speak English, but even so it must help.
*waves from Newport News*
Hello, very hot here. We've just been for a swim in the hotel pool. Many prohibitions, as is usual, but one is the bizarrest I've ever seen: "No breath-holding".
Breath
[rab]:o) Good advice, too, if one reads it in the context of "while waiting for income tax to be repealed", I think.
Good News
Please excuse this interruption, but Dunx has had some good news. When you get a chance, you might like to visit the OMC chat game and see what's what.
All very good, though the pool in question was only 90cm deep at the shallow end. And I now have a grazed knee to prove it. Ouch.
(rab) That's three feet, isn't it? Just trying to visualise it. Sod metric.
A sod metric is 1 metre square, usually covered in grass or some other forage plant. In other news, I've got a job offer, less than I wanted, and I have to move house. But I have another interview this afternoon for a BIG job, on an international scale. I have no idea what will happen next.
Interesting developments
[penelope] Luckily time marches on, so you will find out what happens next, precisely as it happens.
30 Sods Metric (about the size of my back garden)
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaargh. I *think* this afternoon's interview went well. The second interviews are next week, which is when they'll give me personality tests to check I'm a loony, and make me do Sudoku maths tests (it's a Japanese company). In the meantime, I am holding off deciding about the other job offer I *do* have, and as all I have is an indication of a verbal offer from the recruitment agency, I think I'm safe so far. Sorry for blurting all of this out at you lot; you can expect more over the next few days.
The Stupid Internet Freebie Culture
I wanted to say "think nothing of it" in Japanese to penelope in order to appear clever, so I put the phrase into Babelfish and got back what was possibly accurate but entirely unuseable chickenscratch kanji (which I cannot read). I then went to the last, best hope for mankind, the Wikipedia, where I was confronted by paragraphs of "how to read kanji" (a bit of a puzzler given the assurances on the same page that kanji was so disorganised it would take years to learn even to a low standard of comprehension) and some phonetically spelled-out phrases, which was what I was after. They didn't include the phrase I was looking for, so I googled on "japanese phrase" and was directed to a couple of different sites. When these things finally loaded, they proved on close inspection to be nothing more than wrappers for the original wikipedia material.
It would appear that significant parts of the internet are actually just wrapping other people's stuff, which in all likelyhood is wrapping other people's stuff and so on and so forth. I wonder how much original material is actually out there? (This posting originally appeared in The Saturday Evening Post, Christmas 1954 edition)
It would appear that significant parts of the internet are actually just wrapping other people's stuff, which in all likelyhood is wrapping other people's stuff and so on and so forth. I wonder how much original material is actually out there? (This posting originally appeared in The Saturday Evening Post, Christmas 1954 edition)
developments
I've accepted the other job. The fickleness of women, etc etc... Now to move house, Before mid-September. Aaargh.
[pen] Not the big international job then?
International woman of mystery?
Personality tests to check I'm a loony
[pen] shurely to check you're not a loony...?
No, not the big international job. I thought hard about it, and chose the job that I thought would make me happy, rather than the pretigious and glitzy one. It's back in Lincs (closer to my mum etc), working in conservation (I think ten years is long enough in the auto industry) with plenty of chance to progress, and they really want me to work there. The other one would be all hassle, and it would be more difficult to have time with the windy miller.
They check to what degree you are a loony... don't they?
Can I just recommend mint tea with honey? Mint leaves, boiling water and a smidgin of honey. Especially in hot weather. Serve it in a glass, not a mug.
They check to what degree you are a loony... don't they?
Can I just recommend mint tea with honey? Mint leaves, boiling water and a smidgin of honey. Especially in hot weather. Serve it in a glass, not a mug.
just catching up...
[pen] Wow! All the very best in your new job! Ah, moving house, fun for everyone. *sends good wishes*
[penelope] And what better revenge on your previous boss than to be able to target his/her gas-guzzling rustbuckets as part of your new job in a quest for greenness? Congratulations.
I can't be bothered with revenge! Anyway, thanks to flerdle and everyone for the congratulations - I think I've found a tiny (and I mean TINY) bungalow to rent and am just wondering which bits of furniture I have to discard in order to live in it.
Help
Apologies for cross posting: Am I remembering correctly that someone in the Morniverse is involved in, or knows someone who is involved in, dealing with 419 email scams? We have a student who has been taken in and may possibly need some advice?
Congrats
Well done pen! Lincs and Holland both as flat as each other, as far as I remember. What sort of conservation?
flattery
[IS,P!] The Woodland Trust. Woodlands and general boskiness. :o)
Networking?
[Pen] Oooh, you don't happen to know the best way for a biology graduate to find a job in conservation do you? I know it's very popular and rather hard to break into so I'm looking for a handy crowbar (to clumsily extend the 'breaking into' analogy).
and to boldly split infinitives...
[Knobbers] Voluntary work, to start, I guess; at least that way you get some experience, make some connections and get the chance to work in lots of different environments to find out which one you like. Maybe try the National Trust website and look at their working holidays - and those of other conservation trusts too. I started doing the NT ones about six years ago, then I was put forward to do the NT project leader course. In the meantime, find a job not too far off the subject - water, effluent or district councils? I'm a biograduate too - it took me 20 years to get this job, but then I'm going into their press office, not into the muddy end. I did labwork, odd jobs and newspapers for 10 years, then another 10 years or so in the automotive industry doing PR. Good luck!
jobs
I think Society Guardian is probably the best place.
Hmm... ok, thanks; I'll look into them. I hadn't actually thought of the NT.
Whinge about packing up the house
Whinge, whinge whinge... how come I have so much STUFF? Where does it all come from? I'm listing more stuff on Ebay every day, but actually throwing things away is really hard!
bargainous!
Woo-hoo! Just took advantage of a very quiet day on Ebay to bag myself a double-oven, ceramic hob cooker for about 70% of the price they normally go for. Here's to bank holidays at home doing something useful!
[pen] I think your second posting answers the question in your first.
pfffft
I know it *looks* like a cupboard, but otherwise I wouldn't have a cooker...
May I share my joy?
My little beer festival over the weekend was a huge success - so much so that we ran out of the festival beers yesterday at about 3pm. I totted up the empties this morning and we've sold 617 gallons of draught beer in the last 7 days (including lagers, cider and Guinness). That's a pint every 52 seconds of opening hours.
Yes, you may
Excellent news. Beer festivals are always to be celebrated...
drink up!
Well done Phil. When I get to Grantham (which will be on Tuesday, removals men willing), I won't be too far away. so I'll find a free weekend with the windy miller and bring him over so we can try your beers. In the meantime, I am well and truly boxed in. The house is echoing now. Yuk. And I still have to defrost the freezer.
Back to being a yellerbelly
I'm in! I've moved! Now just to get the cooker wired in, the boiler working, the TV connected... and the room full of too much stuff disposed of. Not to mention disposing of the 3-seater settee sitting out under the carport because it won't actually fit into the house :o( Does anyone want a second-hand Ikea 'Karlanda' three-seated sofabed, with paprika-red thick cotton 'Gobo' covers, which have just been laundered?
Setee
[penelope] Won't the back come off the setee? That can help get it through narrow spaces. There is sometimes a release mechanism or little thumb-wheel thingies hidden behind the setee under a velcro-secured fabric flap at the join of the back and seat. Fingers crossed.
I Kan't Envisage Amputation
erm... it's an Ikea one. They expect people to live in loft apartments with industrial lifts, not twee bungalows with narrow corridors :o( I'm going to flog it and buy a smaller one instead.
*waves from Saarbrücken*
Hmmm. I have a feeling I've been here before.
Apologies for my extended absence. I try and make sure that nothing untoward is going on, but if there are any infelicities then please do e-prod me and I'll do my best to help.
Hmm, actually, it's a bit depressing that this hotel's free wireless connection is better than the one I have at home.
(Though, to be fair, it couldn't currently be worse than the wireless connection at home since the wireless box has gone kaputto. One of the things to do when I get back - apart from learn to drive - is to upgrade the broadband which should come free with a new wireless box.)
[Phil] Cheers! I've been looking for them on Ebay to see how much I can expect to get. It's the same settee (different colour), but mine has a full-size double bed cannily concealed within it. And very comfortable it is too.
I'll second that.
Woohoo pen! Moving can be lots of not-fun, so yay that you're (mostly) set up now. *raises glass to new house and new job*
Staying put
[flerdle] Thanks! :o) It just goes on and on - I think I've emptied more than half of it now. But it's a bit miserable doing it on my own - the windy miller has made his way back to the Netherlands already. I would recommend everyone had one of these to help if they were moving house, but I suspect if he was thinking of dumping me, then the disgusting mess I found under the sofa and the fridge would be reason enough to do so. He's gone back now, he says because of his TV appearance on their version of 'Restoration' to campaign for the restoration of a mill, and it was nothing to do with my poor housekeeping. His clogs are still in the hall - I think that's a good sign.
sorry, me again
Day 1 of new job. All well. Phone not yet working.
Incommunicado
(pen) That's the best kind of job - one where you aren't distracted the phone. It's as bad as having customers in the shop or passengers on the train. Bloody nuisance. Keep it that way. :-)
Winter is upon us
[pen] Good luck with the new job. Are all the boxes unpacked from the move?
Yesterday we had calls in our office for the heating to be turned on, then this morning it was so dark had to have the lights on to eat my cornflakes.
Yesterday we had calls in our office for the heating to be turned on, then this morning it was so dark had to have the lights on to eat my cornflakes.
Sofa so good
Cheers, inkers. Boxes - not all unpacked. Sofa - too big to fit in house, but sold successfully on Ebay on Sunday night and collected on Monday. Job - fine. Phone on desk - not working! Winter - a-coming!
Shhhh!
It's a bit quiet in here, innit? Did anyone get 'tornados' this morning? There was a terrifically powerful squall over Grantham, but I'm not sure it could be called a tornado.
[pen] Downpour this morning, bright sunshine midday. Yesterday the 5-day forecast began with 3 days of sun.
The Tempest
(pen) Probably what is technically termed a "line-squall", i.e. a very sharp and active cold front. There may have been some minor tornadoes here and there but the term is bandied about rather too freely these days and you need really good evidence of a twisting motion before you can definitely claim a tornado. It seems that any damage was mostly caused by a straightforward heavy blast from the west as the cold front went through. You don't need a tornado or even a particularly gusty wind to take the roof off a house or blow a large tree down. Sheer wind speed will do it.
[Rosie] I'll settle for the 'line squall' then. And can someone please do something about the icecream van that toots The Liberty Bell (Monty Python's theme tune) every evening so it reverberates around? It's fixing itself into my subconscious, and I don't want it there!
[pen] Here, have a round or two of Greensleeves.
[pen] round here it's Colonel Bogie on the icecream van that tours the council estates. Just as irritating, I keep thinking of inscrutible Japanese and prisoners of war.
Mr Whippy
We usually have "Popeye the sailor man". Could be a lot worse. There is a cheerful trad jazz number called Ice Cream (You scream) but few know it so it wouldn't do. I'd like to hear the first few bars of the allegro con brio from Beethoven's Pathétique sonata. Daaaaaa, da da da da da dat da, da da da da da daa daa daa daa daa daa daa daa . . . . .
The ideal ice cream jingle would be John Cage's 4'33".
ice cream culture
I knew my throw-away remark about ice cream jangles would draw you lot out of the woodwork. Rosie's 'Ice Cream, You Scream' mention reminds me of a scene in Jim Jarmusch's 'Down By Law', which I saw as an Italian import, titled 'Daunbailo' and subtitled in Italian. (It's a phonetic version of the title, spelled as it would be pronounced if an Italian were to read it.)The story of three men in a Louisiana prison who, at one point, start the 'I scream, you scream, we all scream for icecream' chant around the prison. Ho hum.
(pen) The very words of the jazz number, which probably originated in Louisiana, in New Orleans.
[pen] I saw that film late one night, and have been wondering ever since what it was! Thank you!
[Phil] You're welcome. Any other unidentified objects to be named?
And now, Monday. A new week, a new month. I'm currently avoiding my writer's block by posting here.
And now, Monday. A new week, a new month. I'm currently avoiding my writer's block by posting here.
Jolly good
We went on a day trip to Stirling, and the train took us past the building that this is hosted in. Which made me think of checking in to make sure it was still all working.
[rab] You know where your website is physically located? How do you do that?
[pen] Identifying objects: a film I saw a bit of when I was a kid which includes a scene of a man breaking down and crying "choo choo! choo choo!" which I believe referred to some big computer or other. What's it called?
[SM] Mostly cos Dan told me! But the hosting company website also gives this information...
trains of thought
[Darren] no idea. Next!
Waves from East Jerusalem!
How is everyone doing? Welcome to the new place and the new job Pen. Well done Phil on hosting a one-armed beer festival. Most of my MC contact these days has been with JLE through Kingdom of Loathing. Shows where my priorities lie! Oh well, wth. [Darren] Was it "fuctifino"?
[SM] I know where mine's located because I carried it there tucked under my arm. Anyway, it's not that unusual to choose a host at least in part based on location. A lot of people are hosting in Telehouse in the Docklands, so they'd know when they were passing by their server as well.
[Dan] You own the equipment this site is hosted on? I thought hosting companies used banks of their own hardware and we all sort of shared the pool of machines in some way.
[Dan] No sooner did I post that than I realised that you could own the hosting company, or be employed by it. Sorry to miss the obvious.
[SM] No, I just have a colocated machine in a datacenter. Colocation is when you provide the hardware and put it in someone else's facility and let them worry about bandwidth. And it doesn't host this site, it hosts that other one over there somewhere (gestures vaguely in a westerly direction). As far as this (rab's) site is concerned, when he was looking for a provider I just pointed out that there was one in the Edinburgh area that looked suitable.
[Dan] I had no idea that was one of the options available. Thank you for explaining it.
*burp*
OOps. Pardon me. I visited the East Midlands Regional Food Festival today, and watched Jean-Christophe Novelli charming the pants off all the middle-aged ladies in the audience of the demo hall. I tasted my way around three massive halls of food from local producers, and bought some cheese, some potted shrimps and a teatowel for my sister.
Comestibles
[penelope] The shrimp and cheese sound reasonable. I'm not too sure about the teatowel though as it's new to me. What is it and how does it taste - a dry Czech perhaps?
(pen) I hope you re-donned your underwear. *runs away*
Tsk Tsk! Had a Frenchman before. The accent does nothing for me now. Got a Dutchman instead ;o)
[Rosie] L M F A O. I'm not sure pen got it...
getting it...
I chose to ignore it :oP
Glad to hear you're getting it, penelope.
*issues a 'Stop Digging' order*
10/10
Traditionally, this day of the year has been my birthday, but thanks to the sterling efforts of the Royal Mail I can postpone the next tick of the clock to, oh, probably some time towards the end of the month by the look of it.
Actually - I'm going to pretend it's my 17th and will start taking driving lessons soon.
Many Happy Re-deliveries
[Rab]Have a bonzer day, mate.
alive
Hello all, now that I've finished my degree and have a proper job I'm intending to be on here a little more. How long will it last this time? A nation asks.
[rab] MHR's to you :-)
I believe the cost of driving lessons nowadays requires considerable financial planning. How about this sort of thing to get you going?
I believe the cost of driving lessons nowadays requires considerable financial planning. How about this sort of thing to get you going?
(Chalky) Got me going all right 'cos the link don't work. Not on this old tub, any road up.
Try stripping off the bit that goes "rab.org.uk/mc". It still wouldn't load for me, but I'm in a weird location at the moment.
I've fixed it. (Hmm, I thought my auto-link-repairer was supposed to spot things like that).
John Kettley is a Weatherman
So, how's the weather where you are?
wevvah
Beautiful morning in London today - sun rising through the autumnal mist as I crossed Blackfriars bridge, people stopping to take photographs, or just look at it. Positively Turneresque.
So, nothing new there then...
Hot. Humid.
[nights] So where are you now? You said somewhere you have moved countries, right?
[CdM] Strasbourg, France. I was made an offer I couldn't refuse - namely a lecteur's job and a four figure monthly salary. I teach speaking and listening in English to first-year undergraduates, and I rather enjoy it. The weather, on the other hand, can't make up its mind between autumn and a very late Indian Summer.
ahem
(nights) Indian summers, so-called, take place in autumn by definition.
october in hyderabad
[Rosie] Yeess... but I thought it was somewhat late for that. I stand, or rather sit, corrected.
(nights) I'm not totally certain where the term Indian Summer comes from. It may actually be India (from the Raj days) or it may be connected with American Indians. Google has all sorts of theories. Having been a meteorologist, albeit some time ago, I shouldn't have to look it up, of course. It's a bit like a doctor Googling "appendix" and then saying to himself "oh, it's that bit, is it?"
An American Indian summer is very unlikely. The Raj hypothesis is a lot more sensible.. I remember reading the phrase in a PG Wodehouse book, which dates it somewhat, and tends to place it in a Raj-like context rather than an Amercian context.
[Rosie] That's OK. I had a moment in class today where I was explaining about transitive and intransitive verbs, completely forgot which way round they are, and made it up instead. I should know things like that, I'm a bloody linguist.
transitiveness
(nights) Made it up? Hey, that's jazz, as we say after a string of bum notes. There is a tendency, which is currently going a bit too far, to use transitive verbs where an intransitive one should be used, eg "the temperature is reducing". Reducing what? People to perspiring lethargy? On the other hand we chemists have always talked about reacting A and B to produce something, meaning causing A and B to react (by putting them in a flask together and heating them, for example). Do other languages have this flexibility laxity?
(SM) Maybe not an "American Indian" summer but certainly an American "Indian summer" as it seems the phrase is well-established in the US where, according to Wikipaedia, it has the rather precise meaning of an unseasonably warm spell that takes place after the first ground frost of autumn. But it's possible they got it from the Raj, via us.
Linguistic flexibility
[Rosie] In our (italophone) house we just use whichever verb comes to mind and conjugate it appropriately (laziness on my part which my wife has caught). This leads to some hilarity but mainly exasperation of the shit-we-must-cure-ourselves-before-kids-come-along variety.
Rereading that it's not as clear as I had hoped. I mean if I can't be bothered to trawl my mind for the Italian verb I just stick the English one in and slap -are on the end.
[Rosie] "Laxity" is a pretty mild word for you to use in this context, Rosie; most unlike you. :-) I thought you devastated much more about this kind of thing.
I'd always assumed Indian summer was a U.S. phrase, simply because I don't ever remember hearing it before I moved to the U.S. (many summers, Indian and not, have passed since then).
On the other hand, Rosie, I'm not sure you should trust your chosen source too much.
On the other hand, Rosie, I'm not sure you should trust your chosen source too much.
(CdM) Cruvvens, mon, I insult at such a suggestion! Too right I devastate. My Morniverse-cred shreds and my confidence erodes. Needless to say I emote. *throws up*. Phew, that's better. "Indian Summer" was around when I was a small child and I wondered what people were on about. (ISP) You can do that in Welsh. Just stick -io on the end and you've verbed it, or wedi ei berfio as one would say. ( = "after its verbing"). Berf = verb but berfio is not in the dictionary.
[Rosie] I've noticed that as well. Of course, it might be that now that my contact with English is limited, things that seem "wrong" are thrown into sharper relief. Or I might just be being a bit nit picky, as I'm used to weeding through my student's work with a fine toothed comb. Yes, this paragraph is designed to put your teeth on edge.
[IS,P!] I'm glad I'm not the only one that does that. At a party this evening, we had "smoker", "lighter" and "jazzer up" - all standard -er verbs that conjugate as expected. "jazzer up", we decided, takes être in the perfect though.
[IS,P!] I'm glad I'm not the only one that does that. At a party this evening, we had "smoker", "lighter" and "jazzer up" - all standard -er verbs that conjugate as expected. "jazzer up", we decided, takes être in the perfect though.
(nights) Disgraceful. You could have Frenchified it a bit into enjazzer or something, still with être in the perfect of course. Don't forget the past participle is enjazzu. (It's irregular). You couldn't do that in Welsh; no j's, no z's. In fact many North Walians simply can't make the "z" sound, so that precision rhymes with fission. But they can do the double-L, of course. *gloat*.
'double-L' as in Llandrover, Llambs and Llight Rain... ;o)
Ah, memories of Max Boyce pronouncing Dallas with a Welsh double-l sound :-)
[Rosie] Hold on, past participle enjazzU? Not possible, my old chum, even if it is irregular. -er verbs NEVER form pp's that way, it's just not the done thing.
entendu
(nights) I thought not, but it was worth a try. How can we make enjazzer more interesting? Wouldn't enjazzir have some linguistic legitimacy? (pen, Phil) I am always tickled by Llanera, the sponsors of Charlton FC. Google says it's some dismal Spanish holiday-home construction company, but in fact it's a small village in Wales. In English it would be rendered as St Era's, or (more likely) St Gera's.
[nights] if it were jazzre, then jazzu would be logical.
(Phil) You're right, but can you say jazzre without spilling your pint? Difficult.
re - Llanera; I've just re-read my last post and it looks all too plausible. But don't look for Llanera; it ain't there.
re - Llanera; I've just re-read my last post and it looks all too plausible. But don't look for Llanera; it ain't there.
[Phil, Rosie] Indeed it would be. Jazzre is a bit clumsy though, and sticks in the throat. I prefer jazzer, myself, as enjazzir reminds me of a slightly dirty word in French which I'd rather avoid. I promise not to bring up French again.
forrin lingos
(nights) If you stop talking about French I'll have to stop yakking on about Welsh, and that would never do.
bringing up French
Enspew?
[Rosie] Perhaps this is the wrong moment to bring up Russian, then?
(nights) Nice one, Cyril.
Good ol' Cyril. On another topic, who's excited about Christmas?
Oh don't
[nights] I just saw my first xmas ads on telly tonight but I'm not entirely blameless. I've booked a cottage on the west coast of Scotland for xmas, and I was looking for a butcher in Oban so I could order a duck for xmas dinner, to collect on xmas eve :op
(nights) Not these days, the politest response I can find. There will be no snow in this part of the world, something I realised by about 1954. Actually, there was snow on the ground in 1981, but normally it just rains.
I was only asking because the Christmas ads have yet to start here, and it's nice to not approach November with tinsel already becoming a chore rather than a delight. On the other hand, I HAVE just booked my flights back to the UK to see the family, so it's partially just me projecting.
In business terms, I am excited about Christmas this year, especially as I have all my events and entertainment booked and confirmed already. On a personal level, only one Christmas Day stands out as being better than any given Sunday - 2002. That was the year I joined a brass band and we played carols on every ward of the two hospitals in the town on Christmas morning. Everyone else got stressed at home while I was out, and they'd all calmed down again by the time I got back :-)
We're hoping to have our first Christmas a deux. I'm wondering about whether to go out for a curry for lunch. We like curries, and are rather hoping that non-Christian restaurateurs won't think that they have any reason to close on the big day.
Curry for lunch
My brother and his family invariably go out for Xmas lunch, and curry is frequently on the menu. I would not have any worries if I were you as to the willingness of restarauteurs in general to open on Xmas day, but make sure you BOOK FIRST! We're off to Italy again this year 'cos our friends are getting married on 22 Dec and no point doing Bxl-Trn-Man in the space of three days. A sad one this year as my Gran-in-law (if such be possible) snuffed it earlier this year so the famous Xmas agnolotti will be less tasty than memory makes them.
*prays for snow in the mountains*
Frost! We finally had a frost last night! Good job I brought the geraniums in...
No such excitement here. Although it's awfully cold outside.
Great steaming lumps - Christmas talk already? I'm surprised at you all. Still, it's better than Big Brother.
To engender conversation: "How is everyone?"
To engender conversation: "How is everyone?"
I'm well thank you, despite an inner dialogue at 6.30 this morning which ran thusly:
Nights, are you awake?
Yes..urgh...mumble... what time is it?
6.30.
Can't be. I'd be panicking that I'm going to be late if it was 6.30. (rolls over to face alarm clock.
Erm...
OH MY GOD IT'S 6.30 MY BUS LEAVES IN 20 MINUTES! WHERE ARE MY SOCKS?
Nights, are you awake?
Yes..urgh...mumble... what time is it?
6.30.
Can't be. I'd be panicking that I'm going to be late if it was 6.30. (rolls over to face alarm clock.
Erm...
OH MY GOD IT'S 6.30 MY BUS LEAVES IN 20 MINUTES! WHERE ARE MY SOCKS?
wakey uppy
I'm currently experiencing the regular phenomenon of waking up thirty seconds before the first of my three alarm clocks goes off. What's going on there then? (All very prompt, except this morning, I made a cup of tea and took it back to bed).
Tea in Bed
[penelope] Do they still have those "Teasmade" ("Teasmaid"?) machines that compine an alarm clock with a cunning kettle/teapot arrangement? If only they had figured out how to keep the milk cold (other than by making the houses so expensive to heat) at the same time the idea would have been a 10/10 perfect one, but it was pretty good even so.
Premonition
(pen) One of your alarm clocks may make a little click or sound before it actually goes off and it could be this that wakes you. Or you are sleeping-the-sleep-of-the-extremely-desirous-to-get-to-work-in-time because of your new job.
[SM] Actually, I've had one of those "screech in your ear, make you a cuppa" devices for over 10 years now. I call it a "wife".
bedburps
[Rosie] Come to think of it, it might be the central heating that wakes me.
[Phil] *gasp!* although the windy miller does have the same effect, but through a nicer process.
[Phil] *gasp!* although the windy miller does have the same effect, but through a nicer process.
Teasmade
I must get one of those. One of these days I'm going to set the flat on fire putting the kettle on at 6am when I'm not completely awake.
(pen, reply to Phil) That sort of thing usually makes me want to sleep rather soundly.
[Rosie] I mean he makes me tea, but doesn't do the screeching. What were you imagining?
(pen) Well, now . . . .
Has everyone given up playing AVMA, then? I'm off on hols in a couple of days. Hoping someone will guess my clue before that...
I could never get the hang of AVMA. Too complex for me, I think. Similar to how I don't get involved in those difficult poetry games over on Orange.
Morning chaps. Despite it feeling like it's too early to be up on a Saturday, I'm quite cheery. I'm going to help plant 1,500 trees today, then I'll brush off the mud and catch a plane this evening to see the windy miller. The tree-planting could be thought of as carbon offsetting against the flight, but truthfully it's just part of my job now :oD
[Muddy Boots] Sounds like a marvellous way of spending a Saturday to me. I, however, have been running errands in Strasbourg, which has more people in it today than I've ever seen. I'm now killing time waiting for a friend and have a cracking headache. This is a marvellous city - the people that inhabit it, sometimes, are not.
Daylight saving just started here. I don't mind it, really, although it does feel a bit strange to be eating the evening meal in broad daylight. Having spent most of my life in the tropics and subtropics, it just feels wrong.
[nights] I don't know if you like swimming, but if you do you should go to the old swimming pool in Strasbourg some time. Not that it is a great place for serious swimming, but it is quite charming.
Trunks
Funny you should say that, I use the roman baths upstairs on and off. Not been swimming though, mainly because I can't. I do love the building though - very grand, sweeping marble staircases, and it's owned by the council. A far cry from Bath Sports and Leisure Centre.
winning windy millers
One of the Dutch Miller's windmill restoration projects won the Nederlands' version of the 'Restoration' TV programme last night. I've just watched the finale on the web, and have seen my bloke holding a cheque for €1,000,000. Is it the right time to propose?
I'd say so. A fat wad of used oncers, a possible deal to star in the upcoming Pimp My Windmill reality TV show and a reason to wear wooden shoes? Jump!
[penelope] How's the new house working out?
[SM] Cosy but messy. I've been there two months and haven't spent a weekend there yet.
[pen] If you don't propose, I will :)
[nights] That's very sweet of you but I couldn't possibly. I think I'm twice your age.
Weekend plans?
I leave Jerusalem at midday tomorrow for a flight back to Brussels. Fingers crossed security at Ben Gurion isn't too much of a pain and I catch my flight. I have a diplomatic 'laissez-passer' but given that it's written in Hebrew it could say 'your mother does it with you for money' or 'call Shin Bet, this guy's a terrorist'for all I know. If you don't hear from me for a few months, you know where I am.
Brussels
And just taking this opportunity to plug My show in Brussels 22-25 November again. Particularly convenient for all known Dutch windmills. And with a cheque for a million Euros you can afford a couple of 20 Euro tickets... I say "my show" but everyone else has been rehearsing properly, whereas I have just been singing on my own with the CD/iPod, so god alone knows how I'm going to sound at rehearsal on Sunday.
[pen] The lady doth protest too much. Besides how do you know how old I am?
interrupting pennylope and nightses convo
[nights] One can tell by the cut of your jib. Relax. It's a girl thing.
Carbon dating
(Chalky) Not just a girl thing, but I wouldn't deny they're better at it.
Constant flirtation
Very well. I grieve a missed opportunity, but I think Mlle Nights is probably going to kill me if she gets wind of all of this.
[nights] pen & Chalky are certainly the experts. They've been looking after me for years ;)
Quick question: What would you do about over-amorous neighbours? I'm pleased they're having a good time, but they're having it rather loundly.
[nights] Compete.
Trans-mural legovers
(nights) If my experience is anything to go by the activity is self-limiting. I used to briefly hear them nextdoor and sniggered to myself about the rabbit-like duration the process occupied in their case. As a result of this they have two delightful kids whose needs leave them bereft of libido. So the answer is: Nick their French Letters, or whatever they call them over there.
[nights] Record their sessions and set up a web site selling them?
[Pen] That's what Mlle Nights suggested. Plans are afoot.
[Rosie] I believe they're just known as letters here.
[Raak] Erm... probably not a market for it.
[Rosie] I believe they're just known as letters here.
[Raak] Erm... probably not a market for it.
]nights] Break into their apartment and put local anaesthetic in the baby oil?
Break into their apartment and set up the recording equipment. You'll make tens of quid.
[nights] I'd suggest registering loudsex.com, but it's taken already.
[Raak] You're the second person today to direct me there. I might have to start reading it full time.
Breaking the lull, is anyone doing anything good this weekend? I've just had my first *proper* lie-in in my new house. Yum. Now... housework. And maybe shopping for a washing machine.
I'm driving to Canberra, again. It's a three week stint there this time. The rest of the weekend has been filled with trying to get my computer to work. The computer that all my experiments etc have been done on, over the last three years. The one I need in Canberra. The one that didn't turn on on Thursday.
I'm going to rest AND take moderate exercise AND take anti-inflammatories AND just make do with paracetemol AND try not to carry anything AND carry on as normal. That way I'll have followed all the advice for dealing with lower back pain.
How did I do that? In the hotel gym, probably the rowing machine. This exercise is no good for me.
How did I do that? In the hotel gym, probably the rowing machine. This exercise is no good for me.
argh!
[flerdle] argh!
le weekend
Housework, cinema last night, lie in this morning, laundry and now a bit of marking I forgot to do on Friday. I've had worse weekends.
Prudence
Having been feeling that I wasn't using my mobile phone enough to justify the monthly outlay, I called up the operator who offered to reduce the rental fee to £0 a month with still enough minutes and texts included to cover my typical usage. I'll believe this when the first bill comes through...
launderette
The washing machine arrives on Wednesday. No more hand washing, hurrah!
Goodness me!
[rab] How did you manage this, which operator, and what is their number?
Junk
[rab] Get rid of it, you obviously don't need the infernal machine. I have had the dubious pleasure of using one for my business. My experience was that customers were happier to leave a message on my answering device rather than 'phone me on the mobile.
(pen) I hope you still wash your feet.
argh!
[CdM] Indeed. We found that the hard drive was ok, so that was extracted and made to work with a bit of voodoo. I owe frogstar, big time. Now the computer is not only headless (no monitor, etc) but bodyless (no actual "machine"). It works, is the main thing. And a full current backup is now sitting at PaulWay's place (thanks and more thanks!).
Now I have to do actual work. *sigh*
je suis en colère
Well, more strike action on the rails in France. Just as the new, improved Eurostar opens from St Pancreas. The timing is perfect, wouldn't you say?
s'awfully quiet in here
Washing Machine Blues. They delivered it yesterday. Brilliant. I connected it up, and ran it on a 95 degree empty cycle, as recommended. It leaks. The deliverymen scuffed the drainage hose as they brought it in, making a water-sized hole. So I called the shop this morning, they put me onto Hotpoint's customer service, where I spoke to Smug Tony, who offered me an appointment a week on Thursday for a machine I didn't damage, and which I haven't yet been able to use. Not acceptable, I told them. I said I would talk to the shop again and get them to take the machine back. 'But the shop has handed this matter over to us,' said Smug Tony. I pointed out that Hotpoint customer service wasn't proving to be any use to me, so I would reserve the right to talk to the people who sold me the machine.
So I called the shop again, and insisted I was a very unhappy customer, and would they please give me a new washing machine before the weekend, and take the old one away. They're coming tomorrow afternoon. :o)
So I called the shop again, and insisted I was a very unhappy customer, and would they please give me a new washing machine before the weekend, and take the old one away. They're coming tomorrow afternoon. :o)
(pen) So that's what the ex-prime minister is up to these days. Glad you told him what's what.
More on the action - the university I work at was evacuated today because someone set fire to the curtains in the lecture hall where a meeting of students on whether to strike or not was held. I don't think these kids know what they're doing, really.
Goodness, what a long sentence. What is everyone else doing for the weekend?
Goodness, what a long sentence. What is everyone else doing for the weekend?
(nights) I'll tell you tomorrow.
[nights] Thinking about Kalman filters as feedback controllers, control systems as an alternative to utility functions, and artificial intelligence as a doomed enterprise; and on Sunday, attending a memorial service for someone I knew a little and admired a lot, and cursing the railways for not having run a reliable Sunday service from Norwich to London at any time in the last twenty-five years.
Freelance voiceover work tomorrow morning and afternoon. A meal with boyf and friends in evening. Work on show all of Sunday, except for a short break to go see a concert with animations at the Barbican.
[nights] Rosie is celebrating his birthday.
[Rosie] Happy birthday!
[Rosie] Happy birthday!
(CdM) Cheers. There is a remark in MCiOS but you beat me to it.
Work from now to 2.30; watch daughter play in wind band this afternoon; work/karaoke/work from 5pm tonight till 1am-ish. Brass band rehearsal at 8:30am, ready for Leicester Brass Band Festival contest at 11am, then work, write quiz, read quiz at 9pm, work till midnight, get up at 6am for dray, then drop down dead.
bidet
Went to pub, bought beers all round. Fluttered eyelashes at mate's wife who'd said "Gosh, are you really?", tried to pull Polish barmaid by saying "Dobre wieçor" before ordering, as usual. Came home, went Morniversing and will now practise that sodding Beethoven sonata, thanks to Yamaha and headphones. Not a bad life, to be honest.
[Rosie] A belated birthday wish, sounds like it was a rather good one. I'm still not sure if I have a workplace to go to on Monday, so I'm staying near a phone in case anyone makes a decision. They probably won't though.
(nights) Cheers. Hope you find work; unemployment is bad news; I've had spells of it.
[Rosie] Oh, no worries, I'm not unemployed. I was referring to the various student strikes and barricades, and wondering if I could actually get to work today. I could. We'll see what the week brings.
*tumbles*
*grumbles*
*falls over*
*wees*
*wheeze*
*thinks "Not this again"*
t'weekend
I'm planting trees again tomorrow. And the windy miller arrives on Sunday morning. 07.10 at Stansted... so that means an Sunday 05.30 start for me. In other news, my 66-year old mother retires from work today, but has to have a mastectomy on Monday - not quite the glorious start to her retirement she was anticipating. *sigh*
déjà vu
See my entry of 2 weeks ago.
Mrs INJ is just getting over a bout of labyrinthitis, which she described as 'all the unpleasant aspects of being drunk without any of the nice bits'. It had interesting effects, such as falling over in the same direction if she turned her head. So I'll be lending her an arm.
Mrs INJ is just getting over a bout of labyrinthitis, which she described as 'all the unpleasant aspects of being drunk without any of the nice bits'. It had interesting effects, such as falling over in the same direction if she turned her head. So I'll be lending her an arm.
(INJ) Labyrinthitis sounds like a made-up word ("inflammation of the labyrinth" - i.e. setting fire to Hampton Court maze) but I see on Googling it that it is a rather unpleasant affliction so I wish Mrs INJ all the best and hope there are no after-effects.
[Rosie] Thanks - she's a lot better now and will be back at work next week. the first couple of days weren't nice though - could only lie down with eyes closed.
ouch ouch ouch
[INJ] Please pass on my sympathies and best wishes for a hasty and full recovery. I had a severe bout of that after swimming in a waterhole in a national park near Darwin at the start of 1996. It came on the morning of the wedding we were there to attend - nothing like perfect timing, hey? I'd gone for a swim in the pool before breakfast, and things went very strange all of a sudden when I went back upstairs. I found the nystagmus the most fascinating thing (as an Optometrist), even as I was hurling my guts out. I couldn't roll over except at glacial speed for several weeks. I made it - very greenly - to the wedding, but avoided photos. And I was still not happy on the trip by bus back to Brisbane a week later, a total of 2,800 miles due to delays, detours and flooding.
Get well soon, Mrs INJ
[INJ] I had a dose of it about 15 years ago and its exactly like she said - lying down and keeping very still is about all you can manage. Even turing over in my sleep was frightening.
Good Wishes
Thanks to all. She is now much better and functioning nearly as normally as ever. It's one of those things I'd only vaguely heard of, but I now know of dozens of people who have suffered from it. Just one further question. The GP said that there was a chance of a recurrence - is that anyone's experience and, if so, was it as bad the next time?
[INJ] *dons doctors hat* Glad she's better, but sadly second time can be as nasty as the first time. Stupid ears.
medical and milling matters
More meds news - my mother doing well, coming along slowly after surgery on Monday. Windy Miller made a visit last weekend and went down well with everyone he met in my home town. Also toured some local (working) windmills to give him a foot in the door of the local milling brotherhood. And we've been invited out for dinner as a couple. Am officially a Miller's Moll now :oD
Medical news from me - woke up screaming at 4am this morning with horrific cramp in my leg. Mlle Nights nearly had a heart attack, but I'm fine now. I'm told potassium is good for cramp, as this is happening once a week or so. And it's bloody painful.
Cramp
Another two things to try - exercise, particular longer walks than whatever you are currently habituated to - I sometimes need several miles several times a week - and cold legs at night. The latter I acheive by the simple expedient of leaving them outside the covers. Arranging the covers in a shared bed to suit both of you may be a little harder though.
Leaping out of bed
Magnesium tablets have helped me a bit. Rutin (available from all exorbitantly-priced health food shops) was suggested, but for me it doesn't sem to make a difference.
I usually have cold legs at night, as I tend to sleep on the edge of the bed with my legs outside of the duvet. However, I could always get off the bus one stop early. Or two. No, one.
[nights] I think you're bored us all into silence. However, let's bring the conversational temperature up a notch with the general question: What did you have for lunch today?
Lunch
I have just had a cured pork sausage, a chunk of bread, a head of chicory, and half an apple (it wasn't very good, despite being a Cox), and will shortly be having a mug of green tea and mint.
My current assignment is at the headquarters of a large retail organisation, so I don't just get canteen food.....
I had a rather nice salmon, pesto & noodles dish followed by fresh melon. I am now having a proper meal at work and snacking in the evening, which is the reverse of my normal work pattern.
I had a rather nice salmon, pesto & noodles dish followed by fresh melon. I am now having a proper meal at work and snacking in the evening, which is the reverse of my normal work pattern.
Lunch
I had a chicken and stuffing sandwich plus a strawberry and banana smoothie, and, you know what, I think I might have a Toblerone shortly.
Lunch
Two pints of soda water so far, but I might have 3 or four very small samples of beer shortly, in the name of quality control (for once, that's not just an excuse to drink - I'm not well, so a taste is more than I want, really).
Lunch for night owls
Never have lunch. I make up for it about 1.30 a.m. Could be a banana, apple, two crumpets, roll and jam, spoonful of cold baked beans etc (one of the above) plus cup of coffee.
Oh dear. Didn't anyone want to hear about my legs? My lunch was a Filet O'Fish, a salad and iced tea from the McDonalds across the road. Not bad, the dressing was crap though. Fast food today because I had an unusually busy day.
The fastest food is the food foregone.
I'm a no-luncheon type as well. Nor do I have a breakfast. Evening meals tend to be a bit hit and miss so it's not unusual for me to go for a couple of days without eating. Mind you, wine is full of vitamins, so I'm told, and anything that passes one's lips is food, so I don't starve. ;-)
lunch today
Today was pasta - spinach and ricotta tortelloni in a tomato sauce. I made the sauce, but bought the pasta. Yum. And then a mince pie from the Corporate department.
Lunch
Today I managed a few chips nicked while cooking, then a pint of Everards Tiger and a pint of Clarks Burglar Bill, both dispensed a degree (C) too cold, but in clean glassware, and both were in as good condition as you can get with over-chilled ales (in someone else's pub, I hasten to add). A Mars bar followed, and more beer will be along soon - probably a Holden's Black Country Special.
Anyone up to anything exciting/Did anyone do anything exciting this weekend?
A trip out to nearby Wymondham to see the county council's exhibition of their draft vision for future development, which will protect the environment, provide cheap housing and jobs, promote public transport, develop green spaces, improve run-down areas, and give everyone a pony. Gratified to find no plans for building anywhere near where I live. Followed by a fairly desultory attempt at Christmas shopping. Home for coffee and a fig frangipan cake, listening to one of the CDs I bought, Les Élémens - simphonie nouvelle by Jean-Féry Rebel (1666-1747). This may be a present for someone, as may The Maiden's Prayer, and other gems from an old piano stool, a title worthy of Ivor Cutler. It includes Dvorak's Humoresque, Handel's Harmonious Blacksmith, and 22 others I haven't heard of, due no doubt to not having an old piano stool in my home.
This weekend
Tomorrow night I'm playing my soprano cornet in a Christmas three band plus massed-band concert. Alas, due to a quirk of fate, I've been nominated to play one of the pieces dressed as a fairy. I have borrowed a pink fairy frock, massive pink wig, pink & black striped tights and a wand. I'm not looking forward to playing, or anything else for that matter, dressed like that.
[Phil] I'm looking forward to seeing the pictures.
[Raak] Strange as it may seem, I'm not.
[Phil] Quirks of Fate are not to be entertained/trusted or subscribed to. Could you have said "No"?
[Chalky] I did. Several times, but to no avail. Worse things happen at sea, though (not that I can think of one off-hand).
Titanic? Our local Amateur Operatics Society has just completed its run of 'Titanic - The Opera'. For a Christmas show it was hardly the most uplifting of themes, but they sand it awfully well.
sand?
...and their singing wasn't to bad either.
to?
Inappropriate dress
(Phil) Regardless of your apparel please try and play it straight.
[Rosie] No-one will hear me much, thankfully, as I'm mostly echoing the front row cornets - so giggling will not be an issue.
Xmas Shopping
Finished!
[pen] Don't rub it in. I haven't even started, nor have Mlle Nights and I had The Christmas And New Year's And Nights' Birthday conversation...
Dear Mrs. Trellis:
At what point is it appropriate to drop someone from one's Christmas card list, on the grounds of there being no longer a sufficient connection to justify its acknowledgement? For example, one's brother's first wife, from whom he has been divorced long enough to marry again and bring up two more children?
[Raak] I dropped my entire Christmas card list last year, and didn't send a single one - nobody has commented. It only remains to be seen how many I receive this year.
[Phil] I have never maintained a Christmas Card list, nor sent a Christmas card. I still receive cards from some people, none from others, and it has made no difference to my life (that I'm aware of).
Although my general attitude to Christmas is that it is a commercialised stressfest and total absurdity I do actually send quite a lot of cards (a couple of dozen). It seems a useful way of keeping in contact with people you don't see very often but nevertheless have some feeling for. One practice which has developed over they years that I find completely barmy is that of my pub mates exchanging cards. I get quite a few that way but I refuse to reciprocate and it doesn't do me the slightest harm. One of that group is a long-term friend (37 yrs) and we have never sent cards to each other, which speaks for itself. I hope I don't get any from the band members; it seems quite pointless.
I don't mind the Christmas card round because, as Rosie said, it does keep one in touch with friends who live beyond normal visiting distance, even if the 'phone is utilised occasionally. The cards I dread are those whose sender includes some sort of resumé of the past year's doings. I have a relative (distant in both senses) who used to adopt such practice. I decided one Christmas to do the same but outstrip her in the number of pages of inconsequential 'news'. I wasn't sarcastic or rude but simply mirrored her format. We still exchange Christmas greetings but the junk mail has ceased. :-)
Xmas round robins
(Dujon) I get a few of these, some intended for my late mother. The senders know she has died so they are addressed to me. Well, what the hell, it's the same address. She used to say "Oh, poof, who wants to know all their comings and goings every minute of the day". For her, as an essentially sweet-natured person, that is the equivalent of Foul and Abusive Language, and I fully concur. The full horrors of these things are described here. Well worth a look. There's a book as well.
Robins
These people should start blogs. Then their outpourings can be ignored without effort. Come to think of it, I've seen a few blogs like that, words cast into the void with no visible sign that anyone, anywhere, is reading it.
I'm awfully glad that very few people know my address. That, and I keep moving house. It's also nice to not have the Christmas card question, as in France one sends cards at New Year, and so I have a marvellous excuse not to bother.
Boast in the Post
Sorry, but I like receiving them and send one to a selected few on our list. It's better than just a card, but not as good as a proper correspondance over the year(which I'm hopeless at).
I can't belieeeeeve it
No sooner had I put down my cyber-pen than the mail person arrived bearing gifts of inestimable value. This time, thankfully, it was but a card and text which consumes but one and a half pages of A5 paper (replete with Christmas tree adornment). Unfortunately my annual salutation is already winging its way across the many seas 'tween she and I . . . next year then.
[Rosie] Thanks for the link, it made me smile.
[INJ] No, no, no. That is different. In my case (and I'm assuming Rosie's) I'm talking about the 'standard' missive which seems to be sent to everyone on the sender's Christmas list and not a letter or note directed specifically to the recipient.
[Rosie] Thanks for the link, it made me smile.
[INJ] No, no, no. That is different. In my case (and I'm assuming Rosie's) I'm talking about the 'standard' missive which seems to be sent to everyone on the sender's Christmas list and not a letter or note directed specifically to the recipient.
[Dujon] I might still fall foul of your strictures then. I'm talking about a standard newsletter with just a handwritten note at the bottom. However I don't send it to everyone - just the people that we haven't seen recently and feel we should have sent a letter to.
Nyess
We're currently trying to decide whether to send one out or not. Quite a few things have happened this year (jobs, weddings, new curtains in the living room) that a few people might be interested to hear about. Our Christmas card list is very short though.
me me me me me me
[rab] You still have my address? I'd love a rabandmrsrab missive :-)
I can't help but think that I'd like one too. But then I rather like getting post. Sad, isn't it. Of course the people that are meant to be sending me things (health insurance, internet/tv box) aren't.
[Chalky] Indeed I do. I'll stick one in the post.
If there's anyone else who wants one from someone they've actually never met, drop me an email (you should be able to work out the address). On condition you don't forward it to Simon Hoggart.
Doing anything tonight?
I'm just about to get a taxi to the Grainstore brewery tap in Oakham to hear my son playing in the school folk group, who have a gig there tonight. At last I get to drink in someone else's pub - not sure I'm happy about having to pay retail prices for my beer though ;-)
[rab] What pattern do you have on the curtains?
[Projoy] Sumatra brocade.
I left the house at 9am on Friday, and I arrived home at 5pm this afternoon. It's been a very very busy weekend.
I worked all day Friday, picked up my b-in-law from the London train in Grantham, drove him (and me) 50 miles to my home town, and stayed the weekend with my mother (who just had the all clear after surgery for the big C but doesn't yet have full mobility), did all her laundry, ironing, shopping, sweeping, hoovering; made 150 chocolate truffles for xmas presents, packed and wrapped them; wrapped all the xmas presents to leave there for the family as I'm elsewhere for the hols, then made the most delish moussaka, ate it, had a quick cup of coffee and drove home through the moonlit night where it was -2°C on the wolds and -3°C across the fen.
spirit
Yum! I just received three dozen christmas cakes from my Mum.
Similarly, if anyone wants a cheery postcard from orstraya with no christmas content whatsoever, (probably after christmas, knowing postal service times) drop me a line at my moniker at gmail dot com. Ho ho ho.
Yet again, I havce accidentally worked through lunch :o(
[pen] Oh dear. Do tree saviours have desks? If so can't you have a sly munch. I didn't have lunch either because I've just travelled to Chippenham and back for a job interview. Will know more tomorrow afternoon.
[rab] Thanks :-)
[rab] Thanks :-)
slymunchers
[Chalks] Oh yes, I have a sly munch - a food van ('Tiny's') comes round every morning and we now all automatically salivate like Pavlov's dogs at the sound of his airhorn which plays 'La Cucaracha' outside the office window. And there's plenty of chocolate around at this time of year. I just haven't done much standing up or walking around. And I haven't taken a break except 30 seconds every now and again to look in here. My own silly fault...
I'm a bit cross with the transport company here in Freezing Strasbourg. My tram got terminated about five stops from work with no explanation, which meant I got in about ten minutes late. This would all be fine except I was giving an exam to my students this morning, who had less time to complete it. They're not happy, and neither am I.
Disgusted of The Suburbs of Strasbourg
Disgusted of The Suburbs of Strasbourg
Any news, Chalks?
a sort of a job
[pen] Yes. Received a very upbeat phone call from one of the interviewers who told me that they wanted me to join the company. In otherwords, I was the chosen one out of the short list of three - but would I be willing to wait until after the 7th Jan 2008 for official notification of a starting date. I 'think' it's good news. Odd.
It means the secretary (or HR adminstrator) has taken a fortnight off for Christmas and they daren't issue the letter without her say-so. Congratulations!
I used to shop in Sainsbury's in Chippenham. I still have the three plastic coathangers I bought there on the day I left Wiltshire. *sniff*
I used to shop in Sainsbury's in Chippenham. I still have the three plastic coathangers I bought there on the day I left Wiltshire. *sniff*
Update, not that anyone cares: I wrote an email to the company later this morning, asking in polite-ish terms what the hell happened. They emailed me back by the time I got home (around three), saying that the tram I was on had a fault, and they would have been operating outside the law, not to mention putting passengers at risk, if the tram had continued to its destination.
Given the choice between being late and being dead, I'll choose the mild indignation of my colleagues and students over St Peter and his book.
Given the choice between being late and being dead, I'll choose the mild indignation of my colleagues and students over St Peter and his book.
(nights) I bet the fault was some minor infringement of regulations, such as a failed speedometer. They had to say it would put passengers at risk to justify their action. I could be wrong; maybe the brakes had gone. Did they say?
Final afternoon. I'm sorting out my desk out so I have a small pile of easily-identifiable and easy-start jobs to do when I come back to it on January 2nd. And trying to finish off the office chocolates before 5pm. It'd be rude not to.
[Rosie] No I didn't. Call me stupid (You're stupid, nights), but I'd rather not know...
[pen-elope] I have also just finished for the day, and am hanging around waiting to pick up Mlle Nights from work. And then we are going out for cinema and dinner. Never let it be said that I'm an original boyfriend.
[pen-elope] I have also just finished for the day, and am hanging around waiting to pick up Mlle Nights from work. And then we are going out for cinema and dinner. Never let it be said that I'm an original boyfriend.
Every day this week I've been woken up annoyed that it's not Friday. Now it is and I'm watching the clock till we go to the pub at 4.30. A weekend of stocking the larder awaits. mrsrab is working on Monday , but is being sent home at 2pm which is when the fun will really start (with mulled wine, carols from Kings and a curry).
[nights] After work finishes in a matter of minutes, I'm off home to pack the car with everything for a week in Scotland. I'll drive over to my mum's tonight then will set off oop north tomorrow lunchtime for t'Edinburgh airport. The windy miller flies in tomorrow evening. On Sunday, we drive over to the west coast to a cottage by the sea with a real fire - for a week. Yippeeee!
going on a bit ...
Me - tonight going to a Winter Warmer Party [Solcisty-connected]. All our friends will be there. We're all taking our own Winter Warmer Concoctions and there's a 'tasting panel' which includes NotMr Chalky. He'll probably have a blast, the recovery from which might be interesting as he's due to play drums with his band and they have a Christmas gig tomorrow night at a local pub. On Sunday my sister and brother-in-law are hosting their own family Christmas for us all because they're not around on Christmas Day. Oh yes - I have daughter No 1 arriving for a week. Then family and friends Christmas Day then oop north for a few days to Lake District where NotMr Chalky's folks reside.
[rab] when and what station are the carols from Kings on?
Well, Mlle Nights and I, after a brief argument about what film to see, had a thoroughly enjoyable evening of cinematic treats and culinary delights. She's now sodded off back to Paris by train, and I'm waiting for my family to get in here. Although they're staying in a gîte, because I live in a box. But it's a nice one - apparently it, too, has an open fire. It snowed here last night, and there's a Christmas film on TV. I am, as Glenn Miller put it (I think), "In The Mood" now.
CfK
[Phil] On R4 3pm, but we won't be home by then, so will watch it on BBC2 at 5.30pm whilst chinging our way through min spies.
But, as always, do check your own listings guides because here in Scotland programmes are moved by up to four days either way (or dropped entirely) to accommodate the world's worst soap opera (yes, worse even than Gute Zeiten, Schlechte Zeiten) and Rupert Bear in Gaelic (which is actually quite good fun).
[rab] thanks
[All] Anyone got any plans for tomorrow?
[All] Anyone got any plans for tomorrow?
[Raak] I think I'm too out of touch to know what that is - I suspect some kind of computer though :) Have fun!
Oh, and may I be the first on this server to say "Happy Christmas Everybody!"
Oh, and may I be the first on this server to say "Happy Chingmas Everybody!", now that the sound of sleigh bells has officially overtaken JC as the dominant Festive icon.
[Phil] 30" display, and a 4-core Mac Pro under the desk. It makes Second Life spectacular.
[rab] There was me thinking it was the sound of tills!
[Projoy] You've hit the nail on the head. In two hours today four of us took x pounds. Our best ever Tuesday was Boxing Day last year, when we took 10% more (over 11 hours). Our 3rd best Tuesday was 44% less than roday's x. Merry Ker-chingmas to you all :-)
Merry Christmas all. The parents bought me a shiny new laptop which I am VERY happy with, as the old one really was on its last legs. However, I've decided to donate the old one to Emmaüs, a charity around here that takes in old stuff, makes it new and gives it to people on low incomes. Rather in the spirit of the season, I thought.
Good on yer, nights. I'm liking your work. A question: Do ageing laptops have 'legs' or even 'last legs'? Answers on a postcard please.
[Chalky] My laptop had legs, but they broke off.
laptop rookie
[Raak] Really? Yousee - I've never actually owned one. In fact have only used a laptop twice - once at work when the desktop blew up and once at penelope's house when she and I posted in the Pilg Game in OMC to announce our return from RugbySuperPilg 2004.
Another laptop rookie
Haven't got one. I've got a wireless, though, and you can get the Radio Luxemburg on it.
back from the frozen nortth
I drove from Dunkeld on the Tay back to Lincolnshire today, and saw SNOW in the Pentland Hills, and again on that bit south of Dunblane to just where the hills end at Gretna on the A74. And what's more, the lovely windy miller was bumped off his flight back to Amsterdam from Edinburgh airport this morning, but got a replacement ticket to fly back at tea time from Humberside airport instead. So I had his lovely company on the long drive home. He also got a 250 euro compensation, which was nice, especially as I was driving home past Humberside airport anyway.
Argyll was lovely, but it ain't half bloody dark in the mornings. And stormy at nights too - the bedroom window looked out over the Atlantic, with Mull just off to the right.
Argyll was lovely, but it ain't half bloody dark in the mornings. And stormy at nights too - the bedroom window looked out over the Atlantic, with Mull just off to the right.
Thank goodness. The family have buggered off again back to the UK - I love them, but they're deeply irritating at times. Now to rub my hands in glee at the prospect of a New Year's Eve in Paris. Fireworks from the Eiffel Tower? Oh yes.
NYE pyrotechnics
Oh, they are pretty and probably bring out the child within but, oh, what a waste of money. I understand that when in Sydney someone lights the blue touchpaper for the NYE bash it is the culmination of efforts expended at the expense of many sponsors. This is all well and good but, to be honest, I can't remember the name of any sponsor of any previous display. I don't think that the people involved were being philanthropic so plebeian level deduction tells me that they wasted their investment.
I suspect that I'll come across as some sort of curmudgeon but I'm not like that really. While the money spent on these exercises of excess is probably small, imagine the difference a few million quid or dollars could make if that were invested in something like rescue services, paramedic equipment or, God forbid, even some sort of research into the whys and wherefores of everyday life. *folds up soapbox and leaves*
I suspect that I'll come across as some sort of curmudgeon but I'm not like that really. While the money spent on these exercises of excess is probably small, imagine the difference a few million quid or dollars could make if that were invested in something like rescue services, paramedic equipment or, God forbid, even some sort of research into the whys and wherefores of everyday life. *folds up soapbox and leaves*
Postscript: The leaves became caught up in the soapbox due to the amount of hot air generated by your correspondent.
[Dujon] "research into the whys and wherefores of everyday life"? Until that point, I was agreeing with you, but that sounds like a bigger waste of money than fireworks to my untrained ear.
I did say "God forbid", Phil. ;(
No. That makes me seem flippant. Surely, though, those who spend money on advancing their public profile (you like that? It's PR speak.) would be better off putting such funds into something that matters. We have a couple of helicopter rescue services in my neck of the woods; everyone knows the NRMA and Westpac choppers and appreciates them.
[Dujon] Yep, so many things do seem to be largely justified by accountants, rather than common sense, or a sense of "what's right If the sponsors of said pyrotechnics provided transport and viewing platforms for those with learning difficulties, say, rather than just paying some money to be associated with a fun event, I think their names and products/services would be better remembered.
When I try to advance my public profile (honest, I do), I spend my money on an event, and organise it myself, and then try to get the advertising for free through media coverage. Even if the event only breaks even, the knock-on effects of repeat trade and wider awareness are worth the effort and expense.
When I try to advance my public profile (honest, I do), I spend my money on an event, and organise it myself, and then try to get the advertising for free through media coverage. Even if the event only breaks even, the knock-on effects of repeat trade and wider awareness are worth the effort and expense.
OK, Phil, you can put away the sarcasm. I admit that I did get a bit carried away and for that I apologise, though I do not resile from my original premiss.
It's been 2008 for a few hours now so I shall wish you all the best for the new year. Peace?
It's been 2008 for a few hours now so I shall wish you all the best for the new year. Peace?
Eeek, I wasn't being sarcastic.
I think those sort of events with forgotten sponsors are part of a much bigger picture - pride in a place, a sense of community, and a general drawing-together of efforts. And no matter how desperate the need for support for a helicopter ambulance service or a hospice, a proper sense of community precedes all. London, or Sydney, or Budapest, or Oban all need to be nice places for people to live in order for businesses and services to prosper there. I think a few fireworks on New Year's Eve are part of that process.
Happy New Year!
I've just done a couple of minutes of googling, so I don't know how accurate these numbers are, but it seems as if the order of magnitudes are that there were around one million spectators in Sydney, and that the fireworks cost about AUD600,000. I think it is a reasonable bet that those spectators would almost all have been willing to give up at least 60 cents for the pleasure of watching the display, and that the average willingness to pay would have been much much higher.* So it sounds to me as if it was actually a very good use of resources, and not a "waste of money" at all. (This is separate from the question of whether the corporate sponsors get a return on investment; I'm simply asking whether the firework display was a worthwhile use of resources, and if the numbers I saw are right -- or even off by a factor of 10 -- I think the answer is clearly yes.)
* I'm using "willingness to pay" in a technical sense here: think of it as meaning that an individual is equally happy having $x and not seeing the fireworks, on not having $x and seeing the fireworks. Other boring economic discussion available on request.
* I'm using "willingness to pay" in a technical sense here: think of it as meaning that an individual is equally happy having $x and not seeing the fireworks, on not having $x and seeing the fireworks. Other boring economic discussion available on request.
also, what pen said.
also, s/order of magnitudes/orders of magnitude :-)
also (and even though I am multiposting, can I point out that this is apparently only because everyone else is too hungover to speak) I want to make it clear that my comments are not intended as criticism of Dujon or Phil. Dujon's comment, and I think Phil's as well, were only addressing the question of corporate sponsorship of public events. I did pick up a more general sense that they were questioning whether firework displays themselves were worthwhile, but that may be my misreading, because it is certainly not explicit in their comments.
I am *not* hungover, merely hard at work writing the first of three features this week. And sneaking a look at this year's holiday diary - I get a long weekend off in two weeks' time!
[CdM] Rest assured, I love public firework displays. My take on the matter was simply from a "what am I getting for my money" point of view for the sponsors. For example, I sponsor a football team, and the benefit for me is that they drink in my pub every Sunday afternoon (as well as when they present trophies, celebrate promotion etc). I more than get my money back from that. I presume an awful lot of corporate sponsorship results in so-called freebies, like a hotel room with champagne reception etc and a fantastic view of the fireworks.
Pretty much
[CdM] Close, old chap. Like Phil, I enjoy the displays when I bother to watch them.
I've been pondering on my original comment and am thinking that maybe I've got things wrong. Before I comment further though a little research is required.
I've been pondering on my original comment and am thinking that maybe I've got things wrong. Before I comment further though a little research is required.
I'm baaak
From: smh
"Peter Hawkins and Linton Besser
December 31, 2007
The city's $4 million New Year's Eve party on the harbour will not be hampered by bad weather this year, with mostly clear conditions forecast for the celebrations."
The same source (possibly CdM's) quotes AUD 600,000 as the cost of the fireworks. I do wonder though if that costing includes the expense involved in siting the beasts, programming and installing the computerised control system and the eventual dismantling of same.
If the quoted figure is correct (i.e. ignoring my comments) it means that the State (or city) expended 3.4 Million AUD in supporting the function. Media comments claim anywhere between 1 and 1.5 million people turned up in the city to watch the spectacle. In effect that's 1 in 3 of the whole population of Sydney. Yeah, right.
I popped onto the official NYE celebration site ( sydney ) to check out who was who. Slide down to the bottom of the page. I wonder if any of those organisations are recompensed or are simply expected to turn up and factor the event into their annual budget?
Right, I'm putting all this rubbish behind me and flying from Cootamundra to Bendigo. Tally-ho!
"Peter Hawkins and Linton Besser
December 31, 2007
The city's $4 million New Year's Eve party on the harbour will not be hampered by bad weather this year, with mostly clear conditions forecast for the celebrations."
The same source (possibly CdM's) quotes AUD 600,000 as the cost of the fireworks. I do wonder though if that costing includes the expense involved in siting the beasts, programming and installing the computerised control system and the eventual dismantling of same.
If the quoted figure is correct (i.e. ignoring my comments) it means that the State (or city) expended 3.4 Million AUD in supporting the function. Media comments claim anywhere between 1 and 1.5 million people turned up in the city to watch the spectacle. In effect that's 1 in 3 of the whole population of Sydney. Yeah, right.
I popped onto the official NYE celebration site ( sydney ) to check out who was who. Slide down to the bottom of the page. I wonder if any of those organisations are recompensed or are simply expected to turn up and factor the event into their annual budget?
Right, I'm putting all this rubbish behind me and flying from Cootamundra to Bendigo. Tally-ho!
Well, even if you went with AUD4 million as the cost and 400,000 spectators, you would have a cost of AUD10 per person, which is less than the cost of a movie ticket. We have a lot of evidence that people were willing to spend a great deal of time getting somewhere to see the display, waiting for it to begin, and traveling home afterwards. Was it worth an additional AUD10 on top to those people? I'd still put my money on yes.
hny
Hello and happy new year to all. Wandering around John Lewis's end-of-year "Clearance" (they're far to posh to have a sale) we notice they're offering a temporaray "special purchase" 300 quid reduction on a sofa we've been lusting after. The bastards.
One difficulty, apart from the possibility of an unexpected major purchase, is that we're also thinking of getting a cat and it's not clear the two will be entirely compatible.
[rab] Better that the cat does damage to the £300-cheaper sofa than the full-price version, shurely? Get both. You know you want to.
Scratching decoys
[rab] Are you already catty? If this is your first mog, the following anti-scratching tips may be useful: Cats are very discerning scratchers. They will start by destroying the most valuable soft furnishing in a room, then working their way through the remainder in descending order of value. You may be able to decoy them by the following options:
one: a toy 'cat pyramid' - very popular with kittens, this is a cardboard pyramid covered in carpet, usually with a hole in the side so the cats can climb into it, and often with a ball on a string or something tied to the apex. This may (not guaranteed, natch) give a young cat hours of pleasure and become their preferred scratching station.
two: a plain old scratching post. These can be quite luxurious, and may also act as a suitable distration.
three: a really nice (small) real wool rug. If this feels nicer on the little cat's paws than the sofa, then there's a good chance they'll scratch that instead. Needs to be the softest, most luxurious rug you can find, of course. These are cats we're talking about here, after all.
four: Declawing. Cruel. Please don't.
five: Claw clipping. Generally just results in the cat making larger holes when it scratches rather than pinpricks, so probably pointless. six: Luck. Some fabrics tolerate scratching without any great visible effects. Once you have got them scratching somewhere acceptable, the battle is largely won, because that spot will become scent-marked and they'll tend to use it in preference to anywhere else. Mostly – so you'll still need to keep half an eye on them. But if they become accustomed to scratching somewhere you don't want, or if they don't have an official scratching location, you have to watch them constantly and it's a war of attrition that you will slowly lose.
one: a toy 'cat pyramid' - very popular with kittens, this is a cardboard pyramid covered in carpet, usually with a hole in the side so the cats can climb into it, and often with a ball on a string or something tied to the apex. This may (not guaranteed, natch) give a young cat hours of pleasure and become their preferred scratching station.
two: a plain old scratching post. These can be quite luxurious, and may also act as a suitable distration.
three: a really nice (small) real wool rug. If this feels nicer on the little cat's paws than the sofa, then there's a good chance they'll scratch that instead. Needs to be the softest, most luxurious rug you can find, of course. These are cats we're talking about here, after all.
four: Declawing. Cruel. Please don't.
five: Claw clipping. Generally just results in the cat making larger holes when it scratches rather than pinpricks, so probably pointless. six: Luck. Some fabrics tolerate scratching without any great visible effects. Once you have got them scratching somewhere acceptable, the battle is largely won, because that spot will become scent-marked and they'll tend to use it in preference to anywhere else. Mostly – so you'll still need to keep half an eye on them. But if they become accustomed to scratching somewhere you don't want, or if they don't have an official scratching location, you have to watch them constantly and it's a war of attrition that you will slowly lose.
[Simulposted with Simons] Such is the contrary nature of felines that we know it will ignore all the IKEA furniture (of which there's lots) and scratch only the legs of the nice chair and (potentially) sofa. On the other hand, if it keeps the mice at bay I'm happy.
We think we'll have to let him/her into the living room only when we're there, have nice moggy scratching posts in the back bedroom (both of our bedrooms are at the back, but the name has stuck...) and let himher out into the garden during the day where there are real trees and bushes and things. And water-pistol aversion therapy has been quite successful I'm told.
We're not yet sure what kind of cat we'll be getting. We're currently researching the options. My preference would be for a toilet-trained kitten going spare from a loving home that we can teach social graces, rather than some rescued hell-cat with a dozen ASBOs to its name. The latter do have a talent for looking particularly cute in the adverts though...
In other news, it's just started snowing in a Hollywood at Christmas kind of way.
[Simons] Thanks for the advice btw.
Ooh, don't count on the animal making a special trip to another room just 'cos it wants to sharpen its claws; remember, they're lazy as well as contrary. A sacrificial rug or toy cat pyramid in the living room is probably still a good idea.
Saw this recently and thought it might amuse:
The European Commission has just announced an agreement whereby English will become the official language of the European Union rather than German, which was the other contender. As part of the negotiations, the British Government conceded that English spelling had some room for improvement and, as a result, has accepted a 5-year phase-in plan that will become known as "Euro-English". The 5-year plan will be implemented as follows:
- In the first year, "s" will replace the soft "c". Sertainly, this will make the sivil servants jump with joy. Also, the hard "c" will be dropped in favour of "k". This should klear up konsiderable konfusion, and keyboards kan be manufactured with one less letter.
- In the second year, growing publik enthusiasm will be anticipated, when the troublesome "ph" will be replaced with "f". This will make words like fotograf 20% shorter.
- In the 3rd year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be expekted to reach the stage where more komplikated changes are possible. Governments will enkourage the removal of double letters which have always ben a deterent to akurate speling. Also, al wil sertainly agre that the horibl mes of the silent "e" in the languag is disgrasful and should be done away with.
- By the 4th yer, people wil be mor reseptiv to steps such as replasing "th" with "z" and "w" with "v".
- During ze fifz yer, ze unesesary "o" kan be dropd from vords kontaining "ou" resulting in a more sensibl riting styl.
By ze end of ze fifz yer, zer vil be no mor trubl or difikultis; evrivun vil find it ezi tu understand evrivun els and ze drem of a united Urop vil finali kum tru bekos ve vil al be speking German like zey vunted in ze forst plas!
Hello all, back from Paris with only a small hangover. Happy New Year 2008 to all and sundry - hope it's full of laughter, sunshine and cake.
being catty
[rab] I suspect that it's the luck of the draw. I have two moggies and have attempted to get them to use two varieties of scratching devices. Neither of the cats took to either of them. One contraption was a pole (wrapped with rope) the other a flat, foldable, unit covered in a lighter grade of rope. Good luck.
going on a bit - as usual
I have to confess - before I did the sprogging thing, I was a cat obsessive so can fully understand the 'desire to acquire' cat-like ness. All I can advise is .... whatever you wish them to do - they will graciously and very politely do the opposite ... and whatever direction you may want to send them [ with the best possible intentions] they will go the other way with a beguiling manner encompassing charm, purposefulness and intention, which sumply leaves you in a place whre you simply wouldn't even deign to complain. Adorable little hussies, each an every one of 'em.
'sumply' is a fine word - but as you can proberBly guess, was a bit of a misstype.
sumply - in the manner of a sump; L. sumpus, some cat.
Cats are shifty, evil, nasty pieces of work. No-one has ever had one as a pet. Millions of cats have had humans as servants, though.
Well, I've never had much time for dogs - so there you go.
I was wondering if one of the US Presidential Election experts (Projoy, CdM?) could explain if there's any reason why the Republicans and Democrats have their first nomination quasi-election thingy on the same day. Presumably there's nothing in the rules that says that candidates have to be nominated in anything like a similar way, let alone at the same time. Is it simply to try and prevent one party getting more press attention than another?
[rab] You just made me google the answer to that, cos I didn't know, but according to this page, anyway, "there was a mutual decision in 1976 between the parties to hold the event [the Iowa caucuses] on the same day because they understood the need to make it a heightened media bonanza of sorts."
There has been some change this year because the Republicans moved their caucuses in Iowa forward to 3 Jan. It was only after that decision was made that the Democrats decided (presumably for reasons of not handing momentum to the GOP race coverage) to move theirs forward also. The two parties do indeed use separate caucusing methods in Iowa (I think the Republicans do secret ballots, whereas Democrats tend to use the non-secret "go stand in the corner of the room relating to your candidate" solution. There has been quite a bit of shuffling this year of the primary calendar, mostly with different states jostling to put themselves earlier on in the process. I expect this drives up the cost for the candidates.
There has been some change this year because the Republicans moved their caucuses in Iowa forward to 3 Jan. It was only after that decision was made that the Democrats decided (presumably for reasons of not handing momentum to the GOP race coverage) to move theirs forward also. The two parties do indeed use separate caucusing methods in Iowa (I think the Republicans do secret ballots, whereas Democrats tend to use the non-secret "go stand in the corner of the room relating to your candidate" solution. There has been quite a bit of shuffling this year of the primary calendar, mostly with different states jostling to put themselves earlier on in the process. I expect this drives up the cost for the candidates.
+)
*eats curry at her desk and waits for someone to say something*
hmmm, curry
Mmm... absence.
ramblings
My brain was definitely on half-cock yesterday. Today, it seems to be on full-power again, with no discernable reason why.
As an aside, it's mild and windy here today in Grantham. And instead of being the last person on my cul-de-sac road occupied by mostly pensioners to put my bins out onto the roadside this morning, I was the first. Hurrah!
As an aside, it's mild and windy here today in Grantham. And instead of being the last person on my cul-de-sac road occupied by mostly pensioners to put my bins out onto the roadside this morning, I was the first. Hurrah!
Bins
[penelope] The last time I managed that it turned out that I was putting them out on the wrong day. Something about holidays and skip-days, I don't know. Everyone hated me because the bins got knocked over, either by their kids or by the backwash from a passing vehicle. Great neighbourhood. Not.
Communal refuse collection for the building. It's magical.
In it to bin it
[nights] Yes, we have that too, due to the sheer density of people living in the area (4 storey flats). The downside is that it means there are big wheely-skips on the streets, which don't do a huge amount to improve the look of the place. Preferable to bin bags being ripped apart by birds, though, which would be the alternative.
shhhh!
shhhhushes
I was going to say, (before I whacked the wrong key) I'm really busy today...
Reynard
(rab) You can't leave binbags out round here because the foxes just rip them apart leaving the rubbish scattered everywhere. I had thought of splashing a little white spirit around the inside hoping the smell would put them off but the foxes will probably evolve rapidly into actually needing the stuff to stay alive (cf. Warfarin, now a dietary essential for rats).
Yes, but my bit of town looks like shit 93% of the time anyway, so it's not so much of a concern.
On the way back from rehearsals this evening - well actually the pub after rehearsals - I was charmed by the man who got on the bus and was absolutely mystified that he had to buy a ticket. The driver and our interlocuter went back and forth on this one for about three stops, before the gentleman found the 1,30€ needed. And then got off. Marvellous.
On the way back from rehearsals this evening - well actually the pub after rehearsals - I was charmed by the man who got on the bus and was absolutely mystified that he had to buy a ticket. The driver and our interlocuter went back and forth on this one for about three stops, before the gentleman found the 1,30€ needed. And then got off. Marvellous.
[Rosie] So long as you don't use dogs, it's still perfectly legal to hunt and kill foxes.
Tally-ho
(Phil) So it ought to be. I am the least likely huntsman, thinking it distasteful to set one animal against another but I was very much against the ban purely on libertarian grounds and after all it's only bloody foxes, which are pests. I find it staggering that some people in the suburbs actually leave food out for them, which is a bit like leaving food out for the dear little flies and wasps. I do feed the dickybirds but they are a Good Thing.
Extinction
[Rosie] The quantity of species that became extinct long before intelligent bipeds trod this earth is simply staggering. I think our impact is over-rated and, unless we don't believe in evolution, we should stop saving species that obviously don't have the necessary means to survive on their own. Also, I wholeheartedly agree with you on the matter of the naïve townsfolk who put food out for the most wiley of scavengers, so that the cute little feckers don't have to go and find food for themselves. I wouldn't mind getting rid of a few robins at the moment - either that or persuade them somehow to shut the hell up at night.
Thinking about birds
(Phil) Robin problems? Bar them. Employ crows.
Robins calling
They switched to singing at night because modern noise pollution is so bad during the day that they can't hear themselves chirrup. If you want to Do Something about that, you'll probably have to join the Black Ops Arm of the Noise Abatement Society.
Puzzled about Rats & Warfarin
I was aware that rats were growing immune to many poisons, but this is the first I've heard about them needing a blood thinner to survive. Which begs the question: If warfarin is now an essential dietary additive for healthy rats, why don't we simply stop giving it to them?
(S M) I think the story is true though there's a possibility it may be a scientific urban myth. Without Warfarin the rats presumably will rapidly evolve back to what they were before the introduction of this substance although a number will perish in the process. Something more subtle is needed.
Rats
Dad always swore by a cricket bat during the bad old days.
I see idiots have dropped by (see elsewhere)...
Hmmm
Not my day. A casual chat over coffee led me to realise that flights I was booked to take next week have been withdrawn. The service email got swamped by spam, and though they tried to call me, it turns out they did so on my old office number during the Christmas vacation. Ho hum. The original booking was perfect: nice leisurely departure, direct flight out to a meeting; meeting finishes, evening flight back, airport easily makable after the end of the meeting. Then I could go to a course I was enrolled on the next day. Now, the outward is early morning, involves a change at Birmingham. Then I had a choice of either leaving the meeting before the session in which I was scheduled to speak, or missing the course. I went for the latter in the end.
And now these guys show up.
I think I missed it.
rab's Trip
Well where's the fun in that? You are supposed to get the only available flight that puts you in the night before your event, a train ride away from wherever your meeting is to take place. Said train should break down, stranding you overnight somewhere with no accomodation so that you have to sleep on the (open-air) platform where you get molested by stray dogs and policemen. When you get to the meeting you should discover that your powerpoint slides have somehow been erased from your laptop, at which point your wireless connection should pack up. The return journey should see you travel by coach and hovercraft and deliver you into the arms of a UK customs official who is going through a bad patch in his or her personal life. You should return home after 15 hours of point-to-point commuting to discover your pipes burst approximately one hour after you departed.
On the other hand, you are changing at Birmingham.
On the other hand, you are changing at Birmingham.
Actually, crisis averted. Having rescheduled my course, I realised that a different airline could offer me direct flights at better times, and for a few quid less than my original ticket. So, back on the phone to get the original ticket refunded (which I must make sure actually happens), and less cost to the taxpayer.
Flight
[rab] All's well that ends well, then.
Not a criticism of anyone here, or anyone at all really, but I do wonder how many air/car/train/hovercraft(?)/coach miles of unnecessary travel to and from meetings are covered per annum. Also, how much money is spent on travel and accommodation that could be done much more cheaply with minimal discomfort to the person (who is, after all, getting paid to travel in many cases).
Business Travel
[Phil] As a fully paid-up member of the business tralling set I have had those thoughts occasionally, but, if you do it all the time then the level of comfort becomes a significant issue. You'd sleep in a capsule hotel for one night, but not 4 nights a week for 6 months.
Also, speaking for myself and most of my colleagues, my traveling is almost exclusively outside normal office hours, so I dispute that I'm being paid to travel. I think there are a lot of myths around this area.
Also, speaking for myself and most of my colleagues, my traveling is almost exclusively outside normal office hours, so I dispute that I'm being paid to travel. I think there are a lot of myths around this area.
That's 'travelling set' of course.
On the travel theme, how do people commute to and from work/university/knitting lessons?
I personally dislike travelling, particularly on my own. Most of the meetings I go to involve a bunch of people getting together from all over to present talks to an audience. Although this can be done by videoconferencing, much of the most useful time is that spent discussing with individuals in ad-hoc discussions etc. I think that could well get lost without the physical presence. I get paid the same whether I stay put or go somewhere. Also, this all being paid by your (and my) taxes, means that we always have to go the cheapest, most unglamorous way possible.
(INJ) You are being paid to travel, it presumably being a part of your job specification, unless you're self-employed. (nights) Car, once I'd got one (1965). Distances 2, 27, 10 and 6 miles.
[nights] Lots of jobs, several parts of the country involving several house moves. It goes thus: 1. Walked, then car 1.5 miles. 2. Ditto. 3. Car, 10 miles. 4. Car 1.5 miles. 5. Car, 17 miles. 6. Walked 600 yards. 7. Car, 20 miles. 8. Car 11 miles, then 2 miles (I moved). 9. Car 2 miles.
Oh, [nights] Walk, 2 miles.
Shuffling along
[nights] For many years around 50 miles - 80 Km - each way but these days a leisurely stroll of around 10 metres from the kitchen to workshop.
(rab) What, even when it's chucking it down? (everybody) My niece and her hubby commute respectively to Cardiff and Swindon, from Chepstow. This is among the reasons that CO2 emissions are high, and will carry on getting higher. Should I tell her? She claims to be Green-ish, after all. At least they don't fly.
Carbon Footprint
Currently - a quarter of a mile into the city centre. Takes about 6 minutes. *smug green face*
When I was doing a proper job, then that would be a train every day. Now I'm freelance, it's that occasionally plus a lot of lying in bed, thinking.
[Rosie] Well, I don't own a car. There is a bus, so when it's totally dreadful I might get a bus. But for the rest of the time, I have an umbrella.
travel
[Rosie] My job specification says I have to do 5 days of 7.5 hours each (as if!). My base location/normal place of work in tax terms is about 45 minutes away. I am currently working some 3.5 hours away from home, am still expected to do the same number of hours once at the client site and get no extra money. Where's the payment for travel in that?
[INJ] Blimey. No wonder you go walkies whenever you have some time off.
I am currently juggling TV companies' and radio stations' requests for t'interviews. And then I'm off on hols to Holland tomorrow :oD
My commute is even shorter than Dujon's: 6m from kitchen to office. Music lessons are reached by tram. Tram or train to the city, or bicycle are the other ways I usually get around.
[INJ] Do you get paid travel expenses? If not, I'd be having a word with my employer, if I were you. Also, are you really out of the house for 15 hours a day (presuming you take 30 minutes for lunch), 5 days a week? Also (Take 2), do you need to be at the client site for all of those hours/days?
My commute these days is a flight of stairs. In my last few jobs it's been: a flight of stairs; a flight of stairs; 27 miles each way by car; 30 miles each way (1 mile by car, the rest by train); 8 miles each way by bicycle; 20 mins walk; 17 mins walk; 25 mins walk etc.
For several years at one time in my life I had a 60-mile each way commute. Now it is 18 stairs.
(That's 18 stairs each way, mind you.)
[INJ] Please ignore the apparently aggressive style of my previous post to you (which was unintentional). In fact, just ignore the whole thing, as it seems rather silly now. I was NES (Not Entirely Sober) at the time of writing.
[oblig]
[flerdle] Six miles from kitchen to office? How big is your house?
casa del tardis
[Tuj] If I were to tell you, I'd have to kill you.
I should contribute. Bus for ten minutes then tram for twenty, then feet for five. This is why strikes throw me so - I live out in the suburbs, and while it has its advantages - calm, nicer people, very few sirens - if I want a late night, or to go and see Mlle Nights on a whim, it's a touch difficult. I keep on having dark thoughts about buying a car...
[nights] I can understand going to work on a bus, going to work on a tram, but going to see Mlle Nights on a whim is new to me. ;-)
tired old yolk
[Phil] I prefer to go to work on an egg.
[Phil] No bother: I didn't read the first message until after you'd posted the second. To clarify: I get travelling expenses, but not payment for time spent travelling. Also, given the distance, I don't commute, but stay away for the week (and, yes, I do get my hotel bills paid). However, the situation in the past, and with many of my colleagues now is that a couple of hours travelling time is regarded as normal and is unpaid.
Do I need to be at the client site all that time? NO! Does the client agree? NO!
Do I need to be at the client site all that time? NO! Does the client agree? NO!
Vin de pays d'expenses
Regarding payment - one certainly doesn't get paid extra to get up at 4 or 5 in the morning to sit in an airport for three hours.
[rab] Hmmmm....if it's required by your job, and you're not on an hourly rate, then yes you do get paid to do that, but not paid extra. Or perhaps, if your job didn't require you to do that, you wouldn't get paid so much? I'm just arguing for the sake of it really, so don't take any of this to heart :-)
[Phil] Oh you must try it. But I'd rather you visited someone else's girlfriend...
Hello everyone,so lovely to see you're all still here. Last posted a couple of years ago, (then got new job, husband and baby, just about remembering who I am again). Have just had first glass of wine in about 18 months, so apologise now for the possible poor standard of postings!
[Ella] Congrats! And welcome back! I haven't noticed anything untoward yet.
[Penelope] Thank you! And on the horrendous errors front; there's still time :)
[Ella] What pen said!
Ella! How nice to have you back with us :-)
[and Ella] Please come and join my Animal Vegetable Mineral Abstracty thingy - it seems to be taking a bit of time....
*waves from Paris*
[Ella] Nice to see you again.
Good news: just received my first official rejection letter from a major U.S. periodical. I feel like a real writer now. =)
[J] congratulations!
Yawn. Another quiet night.
[nights]
WAKE UP!
shhhhhhhhhhhh!
I am surprised by the intensity of my loathing of Gillian McKeith tonight on telly. She is the most tasteless, boorish and annoying silly moo.
Then why did you persist?
I am quite sure that I have missed some entertaining programmes over the years but, these days, I do tend to pick and choose what I watch (as opposed to sitting in front of the damned thing 'flicking around').
Gillian 'not a real doctor' McKeith
[pen] it was my turn to buy the Sunday newspaper for our usual afternoon crossword get-together in the pub - we generally do the Mail on Sunday general knowledge one because it's quite challenging and good for sharing. Anyway - on the front page was THAT woman who had already stated that "every woman hates their bum" - [er, actually, NO - not true - I quite like mine]. So she's now promoting the Great British Bum Diet. Needless to say I refused to buy the paper and we had to do the Times crossword instead.
Love your bum
(Chalky, pen) Ignore it; it's actually an elbow diet.
un-elbow-like bum
I prefer the advice from here: The Health Institute for Nutrition
[Chalky] Do I detect the presence of a "Millenium Project" reader?
Ouch, me eardrums. Not even been to a gig.
Millenium Project & Eardrums
[Sierra Mike] You mean her?
[nights] Wassup chuck?
[nights] Wassup chuck?
[Chalky] No, you. The author of the MP website used the "Not a Real Doctor" middle name for quacks too. The congruence was striking.
[Sierra Mike] Aaaah. Now I see :-)
Tom & Jerry
Having been accosted by a mouse whilst wiping down the stove on Saturday night - silly thing was hiding behind the recycling and would have gone unnoticed had it not decided to dive for the cover of its bolt hole whilst I was still in the kitchen - we set a trap baited with a peanut butter/Waitrose Biscuit for Cheese canapé. Amazingly the stupid thing didn't notice the suspicious enclosure and #1 has been dispatched. Presumably there will be more. In the fullness of time we still intend to exercise the nuclear option (Codename: Tiddles) but are still building up the necessary kit and looking for someone who'll supply us the goods.
little blighters
[rab] Bait. That's the only way to do it. I had an infestation in my flat (which was a conversion of 'the poor house' - ie the workhouse into six flats) and I caught 11 or 12 in traps, then got fed up of the traps going off while I was relaxing and watching telly. So I called in the council who put down bait everywhere in the building and we got rid of the whole lot. If you have them, the other flats will have them too - am I right in thinking you have a flat in a fairly old building?
Bait
Um, if they take the bait and then die somewhere inaccessible you'll have to put up with the smell while they decay. If you can't cover everywhere they might be, and/or can't access the places where the blighters might go to die, I'd stick with putting traps in the areas you can access and view it as a long-term war of attrition until Project Tiddles comes online.
Best approach depends on your house design. How well-ventilated it is and such. Bait worked badly for us (at my orkplace) because the mice died in inaccessible places and smelt. Plainly pen didn't get that problem, but we did.
Neither poison nor traps will ever get them all, of course; making sure they can't get to any of your food is the most reliable way to make them lose interest.
Squeak
Well, just about everyone in Edinburgh has mice. The majority of the buildings are 3 or 4 storey tenement flats constructed around 1900. Chances are the blighters moved in during building and have been endemic ever since. I'm also sure they can get between buildings if they try hard enough so if you were going for the total obliteration approach, as pen suggests, it might not be enough to restrict it to just one block.
I work on the principle that since they have access to a range of habitats we need to make ours as inhospitable as possible. Unfortunately, the age of the joinery is such that there's gaps and holes everywhere so getting these all mouse-proofed would probably cost more than moving to somewhere that's in a better state from this point of view. On the plus side, the number of poos I've found has been pretty small, which is suggestive we're not getting more than a few visitors. But if we catch more than four or five it'll probably be time to have a chat to the council to see if they have any wholesale slaughter solutions.
Bluebottle season
I dealt with my infestation during spring. The smell lasted about a week, after which I got two hatches of bluebottles every day for a week or so. I used elementary biology to interpret what had happened to the cadavers.
Mice
I got infested once (well, my garage then basement then house did). I tried humane traps to no avail (They came back faster than I could transport them to another place). I tried spring traps to no avail (they proved expert at getting the bait without suffering a crushed skull). Then I reluctantly put down glue traps (which require one to figure out a humane way of ending it for the trrapped animal). When I caught and euthanised my eleventh or twelfth mouse I gave up and called in the pros, who put down some sort of poison with the singular property of making the doomed mouse very thirsty. I was advised to check the bath before showering each morning. That did the trick eventually. I imagine they died in the crawl spaces, but I didn't notice any smell. Perhaps the corpses mummified and now await discovery (whereupon they will doubtless put a curse on their discoverer). I don't think I'd waste time with traps if it happened again.
[SM] That sounds very similar to the situation at my old flat; I tried traps and poisons, none of which worked. But then Dave came round and dispensed the hard stuff, and never a squeak after. But that was a modern flat, and filling the holes with expanding foam was straightforward. After our first visitation we called Dave in straight away, and it took him three attempts to get rid of the first batch; and expressed doubts that given the way the plumbing had been done in the kitchen that he could offer anything like a permanent solution.
SM being Sierra Mike, rather than Simons Mith, in that instance.
I caught one of the little dears in a humane trap some weeks back, also using peanut butter. He died in it anyway, for reasons that aren't clear to me. He was only trapped overnight, perhaps six-eight hours, so it presumably wasn't hunger or thirst. A broken spirit, perhaps?
[Dan] peanut allergy?
Mice
I've dealt with mice in two properties - each time by setting half a dozen traps at a time, baited with cheese. On each occasion they'd given up visiting within a week, and a dozen or so deaths. Perhaps the smell of mouse death lingers in the air?
One bit of information I was given at the time was useful - a mouse can get through a hole the width of a pencil.
One bit of information I was given at the time was useful - a mouse can get through a hole the width of a pencil.
Of Mice and McKeith
Clearly the solution is to stop jabbing those pencils into the walls. Or at least stop pulling them out afterwards. A pencil blimey. I bet those mice don't hate their bums... [Chalky] Maybe she meant that every woman hates her bum? I say why stop there, obnoxious pseudoscientist that she is...
[Phil] I couldn't resist it. Google reveals 65,500 Results for 'Can a mouse squeeze through a hole the width of a pencil?'. (0.44 seconds) Amazing stuff.
[Dan] Murderer! You done for that animal with your inhumane "cholesterol trap". :)
Well, #2 has yet to be caught. I can't believe for one minute there was only ever one of them, so either this one's cleverer or less intrepid. Let's keep on the lookout for those poos.
[Raak] eeek! For a real treat why not try our Speciality Cappuccino flavoured with rodentessence and topped with bright pink froth. Chocolate sprinkles [mouse droppings] optional
[Chalky] I only just spotted your reply to my eardrums complaint and can't for the life of me remember what the problem was.
Hello, Middle Age.
Hello, Middle Age.
[nights] Never mind. Middle Age comes to us all - but I must admit - it's really bloody annoying most of the time.
As some wise person said, growing old sucks, but it is better than the alternative.
Both good points. However I feel especially aggrieved about what this all means for me, as I'm not yet 25.
*ducks flying objects which always seem to materialise every time nights' age is mentioned*
I was interviewed by Jim Naughtie on the Today programme this morning. It was absolutely terrifying. It was at 6.52 in the morning, when all sensible people would have been asleep. I think I was too.
Oh, and #2 has crawled out of the woodwork. A small thing, very actively tried to escape the (humane) trap.
[rab] I just checked it out on Listen Again. The item on New Zealand accents? So, how does a physicist get involved with that? Do I sense the words "spin glass" in the background?
RabRadio
ooh, I must have a listen. All I do is set up these interview thingies... just trying to track down a rogue woodlander right now for one of the regional BBC stations who wants to talk to 'someone'. And firing off feature ideas to BBC programmes...
Early starts
I've often marvelled at the coherency of interviewees on the Today programme, or (particular) Five Live's Wake up to Money, which is at 5.30am. Rather them than me...
[Raak] Yes. That's the one. Involvement via knowing a suitably numerate (or semi-numerate) linguist. No spin glasses as such, though voter models are relevant.
Rising at the crack of Dawn
I get up at 6 on the days I have to be teaching at 8. And those days are rubbish, except when I can watch the sunrise from the tram. That's rather nice. On the other hand, that department is on holiday from next week, so I get a week of lie ins until the following week, which is my department's holiday. Wheee!
Huzzah for our beloved leader!
[rab] as a matter of (professional) interest, how do you alert the media to an interesting academic study? Was it published somewhere?
[pen] Traditionally, you would have a big-bang type discovery published in Nature or something like that, and their press team would do the business.
This case is a bit of an oddity - the work's been going on for years and has been presented in various forms at conferences, referred to in somewhat specialist publications and so on. Our press office got wind of it, I explained the situation, and it was generally felt that cos we were submitting a paper (which could take a couple of years to complete the review/publication process) and presenting it at the same time at the main linguistics conference in the US, it was reasonable to put out a press release. I was expecting it to go unnoticed, but was picked up by Radio New Zealand, the New Zealand Herald (front page), the Telegraph, the Glasgow Herald (page 5, above the fold), BBC Radio Scotland, Today, BBC Radio Wales and the World Service. I'm shattered, and generally want now to crawl under a stone.
[rab] Noooo! You were great. I guess it must be difficult to explain mathematical modelling to laymen, and for a presenter to pick up the gist of a study involving lots of people over several years and squeeze the right questions into a five-minute interview. I guess you're dealing with a lot of variables, but you summed it up pretty well. If I do my job properly, I get to put a lot of Woodland Trust people on the radio, and usually guide the presenter into asking the right questions: "You might like to ask why XXX happens, and what it means in the long term" etc. I didn't realise universities had press offices and the fact that it got picked up by so many publications means yours wrote a good press release and sent it out to the right media, with a view to possibly attracting the interest of potential funders...
[pen] The press officer I spoke to - for about an hour - is an ex-journalist, so he distilled it into a newsy-sounding story. (The version on the BBC website is basically the release verbatim). The presenters' briefs/scripts seemed to be cobbled together through informal chats with researchers/producers a few hours ahead of broadcast. 'Twould have been nice to have seen a copy myself beforehand, but I guess you can't have everything.
You're right about funding though. Probably the most useful thing about all this is that I can stick it all in the case for support to demonstrate interest beyond stuffy academia.
yay rab!
[rab] Cool interview and work - well done, and well explained. New Zealand is nice and small, making it a lot easier to study than its behemoth of a neighbour, even though exactly the same process happened in Australia (albeit some half a century earlier) and it's been developing in interesting ways ever since. I'd be interested in the publications to date, if you've got a list somewhere. I have an interesting documentary about the australian accent, too, if you're interested.
[flerdle] So that Google doesn't link my uni page to this one, perhaps I should suggest you type my name into the venerable search engine, click the first link (at least, the first link in our part of the world), and towards the bottom of the page you can find a link to the relevant preprint. I heartily recommend the books by Gordon and Trudgill if you really want to get into the details of the empirical data, as opposed to our modelling.
Trudgill rings a very faint bell. But well done you - I enjoyed the interview.
[nights] He is one of the more notable names in dialect research, especially in the UK; it would be hard not to have heard of him at some stage if you've looked into this field much.
[rab] Thanks very much.
[rab] Thanks very much.
Ah yes. I did a study of dialect changes amongst adolescents for A Level English Language. It was good fun. Got an A and everything.
Ah, A-level English Language. How long ago it seems now ;)
A level English Language didn't exist when I were a lad. I had to make do with English Literature, and I failed that. So now I don't read much. But I do write for a living. :oD
Pass the flat cap
English Language "A" levels? Comes from having so many furriners in t'country. When I were a lad, everyone just knew 'ow t'speak proper English wiyout paper t'prove it.
[SM] Ah, but at the time it was the perfect complement to A Levels in French and German, enabling me to have a thorough understanding of my own language before I grapple with others. Don't quite know where I went wrong...
(nights) You need Latin. Only with that can one get to grips with the meaning of such terms as fellatio and cunnlingus and begin to enjoy life to the full. You know it makes sense!
Mea culpa
Spot the typo.
Rubble and squeak
Was woken at 1am by the most almighty scratching and clattering noise from behind the skirting board in the bedroom. I had to decamp to the spare room to get away from it. Dave, our friendly neighbourhood pest controller (who will probably be able to retire on our flat), thinks he's worked out what's going on. Next door is having its bathroom renovated, which has probably disturbed a habitat, so they've decided to move in to ours. What we're hearing is probably the removals. The bait has been lain!
Apparently we did a good job of flushing out the ones in the kitchen with our trap - three in the end, and none for nearly a week. Removing the panel under the units, Dave remarked "Missed one" and picked up a cardboard mouse by its tail. At least the source of the slightly musty smell has now been explained.
[rab] Have you been making up all these rodent stories these past weeks, just as an extended set-up for the title of that last post?
Our entire building smells of roasting meat. Great, now I'm hungry.
[CdM] I wish. We plucked up courage to return to our bedroom last night, and it seemed to be a clatter-free experience. Looks like Dave was bang on the money.
It was quite odd - I said: "my wife saw running feet behind the skirting board there", pointing to a wall in the bedroom. Dave immediately went into the bathroom and fumbled around the pipework. I'm sure this guy must have been a mouse in a previous existence...
Finbar Saunders
[rab] Why don't you just ask this "Dave" why, when you mention mice behind your skirting board, his first instinct is to fondle your pipe.
robbin29605
1234567__765432129605
pope findling
[Sierra Mike] Your last three words may have triggered the imagination of the following poster :-0
It's a bit of a shame our main influx of new players these days only play one move and then vanish into the ether again. I mean, where's the stamina?
One hit wonders
Orange MC has had a fair flurry of spamtastic attacks recently too, for those of you who are mornogamous.
Followers
[Tuj] It appears that Chalky is on to you, old chap.
[Duj] I'm trying to figure out what you mean, and I just can't. Have I missed something?
[Tuj] Duj will explain ;-)
[Duj] You know me too well ;-)
In other news - it's my birthday today. All being well - hope to have landed safely in Dublin by 9.20 am. Hope the stalled AVMA has been solved by the time I return later in the week.
[Duj] You know me too well ;-)
In other news - it's my birthday today. All being well - hope to have landed safely in Dublin by 9.20 am. Hope the stalled AVMA has been solved by the time I return later in the week.
[Duj/Chalky] *remains confused*!
[just Chalky] I'm pleased to be the first here to wish you a very happy birthday, and enjoy the Emerald Isle =) I may have to take up the AVMA gauntlet for you, but I'm not that good at it...
[just Chalky] I'm pleased to be the first here to wish you a very happy birthday, and enjoy the Emerald Isle =) I may have to take up the AVMA gauntlet for you, but I'm not that good at it...
Stalking
[Tuj] No harm meant, sir. It is merely my interpretation of Chalky's "the following poster".
Happy birthday, Chalks, a witch with prescience though you be. ;-) I am advised that Dublin is a fair city and worth a visit whether a birthday treat or not. I hope that you find it so.
Happy birthday, Chalks, a witch with prescience though you be. ;-) I am advised that Dublin is a fair city and worth a visit whether a birthday treat or not. I hope that you find it so.
Ah, following not preceding, I see
[Duj] Gosh, I'm easily confused, aren't I!
*waves from Dublin*
Chalky] Happy birthday - have a glass of the black stuff for me!
Parslow puts York on road to Wembley
- Times headline from the football section today. Will there one day be a Wembley MC server then?
Shhhh! We're applying for Lottery funding and everything
Glad I was awake at the time....
[penelope] Next time your miller gets in at 00:58am, ask him not to drop his super-sturdy clogs quite so heavily :-)
[Phil] Right ;-)
Actually, the epicentre was under a village much closer to my mother's house, in Ludford on the Lincolnshire Wolds. It woke me up, though - everything on the dressing table rattled, and I thought someone was at the foot of the bed, shaking it. I think I might have dreamed it was the Dutch miller trying to remove his clogs...
Actually, the epicentre was under a village much closer to my mother's house, in Ludford on the Lincolnshire Wolds. It woke me up, though - everything on the dressing table rattled, and I thought someone was at the foot of the bed, shaking it. I think I might have dreamed it was the Dutch miller trying to remove his clogs...
Upgrade
Just upgraded the server... this site at least still seems to work.
*looks around*
[rab] Oooh, nice :o)
[pen] I was sitting at my computer at the time, conversing with an Australian when it happened - it was rather startling with the doors and windows banging and rattling. In fact, it was hard to tell when it stopped...i couldn't tell if it was me or the earth shaking :-)
Hello there - I'm going to do a little upgrade, so I'll turn posting off for a short while. Hopefully not longer than 10-15 minutes.
Done
Seems to have worked.
p> It doesn\'t mean you can do anything you couldn\'t do before, incidentally...
Oh bollocks.
But if you do notice any oddities be sure to let me know.
Hidden text
I've upgraded php4 to php5 and have found one place where the two seem to behave differently so far.The whole of the internet and computerkind is against me today. It has just taken me four hours to make a media outlets search. The process should take about 20 minutes. Hmmph.
Oddity
[rab] On posting to the Limericks game, the move was posted ok, but this appeared at the top of the page:
array(3) { [0]=> string(3) "" [1]=> string(39) "Wore clogs that war werkelijk te groote" [2]=> string(4) "" } Warning: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /var/www/rab.org.uk/server/STEAM/HtmlRewrite.php:376) in /var/www/rab.org.uk/server/Rou.php on line 122And something similar again on posting this.
Just done the same to me in Limericks. Perhaps it likes not the Dutch?
And here, so not the Dutch.
[Raak] Oh dear...
Wherps
Left in the debugging information...
A pox on Barclays and its unco-operative PinSentry system.
[pen] Hmm yes, it can be frustrating that. Mostly works fine for me, but I don't really want to carry that gizmo between work and home ever day in case I need to do some banking. Still, work is forcing me to ditch Barclays so I won't have to deal with it soon.
Is this some kind of card-reader thing? RBS introduced one of those and it's one of the reasons why I'm switching to the Halifux. (That and I get to spend my wife's shoe fund on beer).
Card-reader thing?
Natwest sent me one of these sometime last year. I am an active on-line banking user, but have never needed to use the thing once. Don't even remember where I put it.
php and your trade secrets
[rab] You drive this site with php? Do you use a framework of any kind or have you done the whole thing from scratch? I'm also impressed with the clever "hide" widget-thing. Presumably done with javascipt? The reformatting on display and hide is very clean on my browser. It must have taken some work to prevent it to screwing up the markup when it opens up. Do you pull it off with clever CSS trickery? Sorry to sound like a kid after consuming a large coke and 99. This stuff is like sweets to me sometimes.
Cardies
[rab] yes - it's a security measure that ensure that you are the right person to access the account as you need the card, its PIN, the gizmo, and the log-in details to get in to the account or set up a new payment. Not a bad idea all in all, but a bit of a pain sometimes.
[SM] As it said at one time on the front page, this site is powered by STEAM which is a few php scripts I threw together over a few wet Sunday afternoons to handle the stuff. It's all basically straightforward stuff, apart from the hide widget which is done by Javascript. The hardest part of that was to get it looking sensible for people who don't have Javascript enabled. Not much CSS trickery - although even then the old version of IE made a pig's ear of it.
[GIII] Whereas I think it's completely over the top. They already ask me for some user name that I can't remember, random characters from a password and a secret code. The card-reading gizmo has removed the one thing that made online banking useful - the fact you could access it anytime, anywhere. (Very handy when you're travelling).
[rab] Barclays at least has removed the requirement to remember passwords and secret codes. I'm inclined to agree with you however on the travelling point.
[GIII] Ah ok - RBS ask you to scan your card in addition to all the other stuff when you want to do something like, oh, pay some money into an account you hold elsewhere. The not-having-to-remember-your-password thing seems pretty sensible; in fact, the worst thing about one of my online accounts is that the password is easy for me to remember (since I chose it) but the username is some 8-digit number I'll never be able to commit to memory.
Meow
Project tiddles has been installed. The instructions said that she would hide behind a sofa, not want to talk to us nor touch her food. She's generally wanting to be where we are and is wolfing down her food. Katharine's just introducing her to the sofa... let's see how it goes.
Ah no, false alarm - just the coat cupboard. It was a bit of a harrowing trip bring her home. We were going to get a taxi, but with the Scotland-England rugby in Murrayfield all taxis were booked up for three hours! So she had to endure the number 16 bus. She did very well...
[rab] Don't expect to have exclusive use of the sofa now.
Name that cat!
Right - the name that came with our cat is, I'm ashamed to say, Cuddles. We're trying to think of something more appropriate but whilst we can think of lots of great names for a male (Armitage, Jeremy, Theodore, Pooch) we're a bit stuck for a girl. Pictures here.
U2
Don't be too embarrassed, rab, we too have had a recent arrival; it's allocated name was 'Bananas'. When the lass at the vet's advised of such I blinked and said something along the lines of "Ey? Do you run through the dictionary, one letter at a time, to pick out names for these poor homeless creatures?" She laughed and said, "Yes, that's exactly what we do". An image of 'ours' will be found here.
As far as naming goes, it's hard. Given the sly eyes of your new master, the fact that she is indeed a she and looks like she'd eat anything put before her on a platter, might I suggest Salome.
As far as naming goes, it's hard. Given the sly eyes of your new master, the fact that she is indeed a she and looks like she'd eat anything put before her on a platter, might I suggest Salome.
Today we have naming of cats
[rab] Pandora - the all-gifted
cat-naming
With those eyes, and those teeth, I'd go for Bowie.
Marilyn. Manson or Monroe, you chose.
choose...
She's quite cute and cuddly really! Anyway, we got through the first night ok - she better than me. I need to learn to delegate the duty of listening out for strange sounds in the middle of the night to her, since she's much better at it than I am. She seems to be bonding better with Katharine than me, and I think both of us together is a bit much for her at the moment.
As far as names go, we've toyed with Beatrice and Felicity but are still open to suggestions.
Oh, and she did a big poo in the litter tray overnight, so I would say she's starting to feel at home...
(rab) A friend has two female cats called Ermintrude and Florence, or "the E-cat" and the "F-cat" respectively. My cousin had a cat called Katya. What about Llewela? Mine have always been "Puss" or "Pussy-cat" and I suspect the next one will be, too.
Janet's a good name for a cat.
South Wiltshire Weather
I been out. Driving. There be plenty of water and debris on roads after 'first wave' of storms. Hatches are now battened down in preparation for 'second wave' later this mornin'.
Weather?
Yeah, it's a little breezy, but the sun is shining - good old boring Leicester :-)
The clouds in those satellite images (BBC) are an interesting curled shape. I am not surprised that it is a little blowy.
It was 37°C here today at 3:30pm, then down to 23 two hours later. This seems to be a regular pattern, and I think I'm getting the hang of it. Step 1: stay indoors...
(flerdle) Is that a sea breeze cooling it off a bit? Bit of a breeze here, too, 35 mph at least. Heavy rain all morning, a peculiarly featureless and leaden sky, thunder and lightning (not in that order) at ten to two and a bit of small hail. Temperature 6°C. Pressure 962 and still going down slowly.
Kitten
Sorry rab, couldn't resist the temptation.
Do any musicians here know any whiz ManuScript programmers (the language for writing plugins for Sibelius (the music notation publishing software))? A friend of a relation is working on a project that is getting rather large for one person to manage and is looking for extra grey cells to draw on. Knowledge of Braille music notation an advantage! I'm not sure how commercial or otherwise it's likely to be.
24 hours later...
I guess not, then.
Sibelius
Er, not off the top of my head, but the Sibelius website technical pages are full of people with a lot of experience and knowledge. A post to the forums there might yield a response.
Cats
The old tradition was to call it 'Trex'. Something to do with Speverend Rooner and looking for the cooking fat... In half the photos it looks like a British Blue. My friend has one called Sybil (Basil died,sadly). What about "Trillian"?
Yes, she's a mog but the rescue centre said she had "some British Blue" in her. Reading descriptions on the web she seems to fit them very well!
We seem to have settled on "Felicity", or "Flisstycat" for short - but we're not sure if she'll get use to it. If she won't shed Cuddles, we might have to make her "Professor Cuddles"...
I think I'm going to be sick :)
My poor old rescued cat is not well, possibly the big C.
do not disturb
I've got a feature to write today. And a press release. Shhhh.
[flerdle] Are you in Melbourne at the moment? I have the school fete this afternoon and it looks like we'll have close to 40° for it. We may only stay for a short while. Adelaide has had 11 straight days of 35°C plus. This looks like it'll be 12 in a row. Poor buggers.
That's Adelaide for you...
[nfras] nah, I cunningly went north yesterday, so I'm hoping it will be back to "normal" (hah!) by the time I return next week. Hope you survive the fete - stay out of the sun!
[Juxtapose] Brilliant!
I'm giggling at players in Each Move Must Consist of Precisely Eight Words who are currently attempting to pick up the game and move it along...
Softers' Cat
[Softers] Oh shit. How old is the cat?
Were you waiting for me?
Has no-one said anything over Easter? I've been away for five days travelling beyond these horizons, climbed more stairs and ladders in more windmills, and become frozen in the process than I care to admit (oh, all right then - three. Two corn mills and a polder (drainage) mill), seen Zuid-Holland covered in snow and had the plane de-iced before taking off to come home, and still you lot are keeping quiet. What's going on?
*spots the ostrich*
[pen] OK, we're back. What?
[penelope] Your elipsis (four moves back) left us thinking you'd simply popped out to take the kettle off the stove. Everyone was afraid of interrupting you and looking rude.
[SM] oops. And I thought we were all quiet waiting for more news of Softer's cat...
I hope it stands a better chance than Schrödinger's.
*peeks*. Why? It looks fine to me.
[ImNotJohn] I'm not so sure.
Belatedly testing that I can actually post via proxy. Don't mind me. Sorry, was that your foot?
That's quite funky, though going a bit around the houses...
Welcome to BST!
*busts out some BST disco moves*
yikes
I've never seen anything like it!
Melbourne temperatures
[flerdle and nfras] Sorry to be slow on the uptake - I have only just returned from my travels afar to catch up with the Morniverse. I was in Melbourne myself at the time of your postings, for the Grand Prix. I thought the Friday (the day of the school fete) and the following Monday were the hottest, both nudging forty degrees C. Mind you I'm not complaining, back in Bristol and freezing my proverbials!
Limericks game
I just thought I'd mention; assuming we want the actual Polish pronunciation of £ódŸ (something approaching "wooj"), as a Southerner with Hertfordshire vowels I have all but been locked out of that limerick.
Goodness me... I typed Lodz with a bar on the L and an accent on the z and it went all funny.
woodgy limerick
Well, I've just taken the only rhyme I can think of for "woodge".
If you're struggling, some people like to pronounce my name to rhyme with that. I don't, but then I'm a Southerner too.
Nah, we've just got to work it around to the winter olympics in lines three and four.
Lodz of trouble
Yes, sorry about that, folks. Too late I realised it would be confined to them as resides north o't' 53rd parallel, except for an Underground station, rather awkwardly. There could be a reference to ursine defaecators, stretching a point.
Wind
[flerdle]Crikey. I visited Mornington briefly on a trip down the peninsula to Arthur's Seat and Cape Schanck. Beautiful part of the world (I was staying with friends in Cheltenham just off Nepean Highway).
OK, so I'm finished stage managing the amateur production and nearly back to normal. I had no Easter to speak of, having spent all of Easter Sunday and Monday saying "No, you don't have time to go out for a smoke". How is everyone then?
great,thanks
Just reaching the slump of the year, when the excitement of new year is over, and warmer weather isn't arriving as fast as I'd like. And the clocks changing forward to BST have done me in... I overselpt this morning :o)
Has anything been heard from Chalky since she called in sick on the AVMA?
Also, [flerdle], I'm glad we missed that...
(flerdle) I see that the train passengers were "forced to evacuate". I think in those circumstances I'd have shit myself without asking.
All out!
[penelope] We still have daylight saving until this weekend, which is stupid because it's so dark in the mornings that the lights go on...
[CdM, Rosie] Indeed.
It was remarkably warm throughout the day, but the light was very strange. I only went out (to the city: frogstar's birthday) when it was mostly over. There are some more details here and some good pictures of the effects of the storm in the photo galleries. I particularly like one of two surfers with a boat in the background. It was all over by evening (apart from the transport disruption, which wasn't too bad in my direction). It's pretty quiet now, but who knows what will happen in 10 minutes.
[flerdle] eep.
[CdM] Yay. Functioning normally again. Thanks for the thought.
[Chalky] Yay! I was getting seriously concerned about you. I figured you had to be very ill to be staying away from here. :-)
...whereas others would express the view one would have to be rather sick to hang around here in the first place...
(Tuj) After looking at uk.sci.weather I come here for intelligence, sanity and humour. Although mostly amateurs they tend to talk about "severe rainfall events" and put their back-garden weather observations into one of the various meterological codes. Thus we see "SHRAGS", which means a shower of rain and hail. It's going to get a lot colder over the weekend so you'd better watch out for them shrags.
Shrags
They sound more like giant hairy beasties that crawl through the countryside at night and pretend to be overgrown boulders by day.
meteorological mayhem
Bloomin' heck. I've got my first free weekend at home for about 6 weeks, and I really should cut the grass - mine is the scruffiest on the entire street at the moment. I was going to do it this weekend. But I'm not doing it if it's snowing.
And in other news, I've joined an organic veg box scheme, and have been very impressed with the contents... except the two heads of swiss chard. Any ideas as to what to do with them?
And in other news, I've joined an organic veg box scheme, and have been very impressed with the contents... except the two heads of swiss chard. Any ideas as to what to do with them?
pen] Two heads are better than one, surely?
[CdM] and [Rosie, Iroulé from AVMA] Gastric flu, dehydration, muscle cramps, hospital, rehydration, home, recovery, still weary but OK.
mucky veg
[pen] Last year, me and several members of our family signed up for a delivery to door organic veg/fruit scheme. Although assured otherwise, we were surprised to discover that the contents weren't grown locally [most came from Wales]. I was also looking forward to the unknown contents element but after three weeks of an occasional amusingly-shaped spud and baggy carrot alongside shedloads of beetroot, I'm afraid we all signed out of it.
easy as pie
[penelope] Treat it like spinach (but don't eat it raw in salads - too much oxalic acid which is not good for you. It's made safe by cooking). It grows really, really well here, being able to cope with the heat much better than English spinach. We call it "silverbeet". You can trim off the white spine, wilt it if you like (pan fry until soft) then cut it up and use it in, say, spinach and feta pie, or triangles. Google for some recipes (an image search might help). To keep it for a couple of days (if it's not already wilted), cut a little off the stem and pop in water (like a bunch of flowers) away from heat. If you want my spinach and feta pie recipe (dinner of champions) drop me a line - my name here at the g mail thingy.
Charred
Swiss Chard makes a pretty tasty soup too in some decent stock, perhaps with crispy streaky bacon lardons sprinkled over the top, or with some stilton melted in.
pretty veg
[Chalks] Oh golly, that sounds dreadful... pleased they took you in and sorted you out - but do keep an eye on it. 8 years ago my M had huge amounts of abdominal surgery for appendicitis leading to peritonitis - which was left for a week because they thought it was food poisoning/stomach upset... we nearly lost her.
Re: veg - Axshully I was impressed - I know some of it isn't local , but a lot of it is (from the South Holland part of South Lincolnshire which is mostly veg-growing land), it's organic, and it looked good - I got purple sprouting broccoli (I'd rather eat this than asparagus any day) and calabrese, some nice-looking potatoes and carrots, onions, and the dreaded swiss chard, which my sister tells me to braise under a piece of spiced pork tenderloin (or budget spareribs in my case as I've just bought the next ticket to the Netherlands in May and my usual airline has pulled out of the route so I have to go with KLM... I get a sandwich and coffee, but it's £40 more.) Anyway... £7 a fortnight is fine, and I need to eat more veg, so I have to plough through it... geddit? veg, plough... ;o)
Re: veg - Axshully I was impressed - I know some of it isn't local , but a lot of it is (from the South Holland part of South Lincolnshire which is mostly veg-growing land), it's organic, and it looked good - I got purple sprouting broccoli (I'd rather eat this than asparagus any day) and calabrese, some nice-looking potatoes and carrots, onions, and the dreaded swiss chard, which my sister tells me to braise under a piece of spiced pork tenderloin (or budget spareribs in my case as I've just bought the next ticket to the Netherlands in May and my usual airline has pulled out of the route so I have to go with KLM... I get a sandwich and coffee, but it's £40 more.) Anyway... £7 a fortnight is fine, and I need to eat more veg, so I have to plough through it... geddit? veg, plough... ;o)
Jolly mowing weather
(pen) Cut your grass NOW (I'm about to) while it's fine and warm. The weekend looks awful, cold and wet, and it doesn't look much better for several days after that. There could even be snow showers.
Lawns
[Rosie] No time, sadly, unlike you lucky retired ones. Anyway, the wife has me scheduled for charity work this evening and over the weekend - again. Bugger! Anyway, she normally mows the lawns ;o). [Chalks] you have my sympathy, similarly afflicted over Xmas.
[Softers, Rosie] Quite. I'm in the office until 5 and have been since 08.30. I didn't even leave my desk at lunchtime. And if it's cold, the grass won't grow anymore anyway - it doesn't get out of bed for less that 10°C.
When I get home, I'm going to kick back and start weekending, thatnkyouverymuch.
When I get home, I'm going to kick back and start weekending, thatnkyouverymuch.
I'm going on HOLIDAY soon! Well, to Britain, to my parents', but I'm looking forward to it. Thank God for congé de printemps - giving us a breather before the exam insanity begins.
Grass-cutting
We've got 0 degrees or lower forecast for 3 of the next 5 nights. I'm not exposing freshly-trimmed lawn to frosts if I can help it.
(pen) You're probably right but the problem is that by the time it's dry enough to cut (a week's time, say) it may well be looking a lot shaggier than just now. (Softers) I trust the phrase "the wife has me scheduled" is not entirely serious. (Phil) The forecasts almost certainly refer to the air temperature at screen level (1.25 metres) but the grass minima (as they are called) are always lower by an amount that depends on the wind speed so I reckon 4 out of 5 is more likely.
cheap mucky veg
[pen] £7 a fortnight sounds good. Mine was £11 a week and there was enough fruit for ONE DAY.
grass procrastination
I've just got a grass-cutting raincheck... unfortunately it also means I can't get the washing dry either. Never mind, it's just nice to be home for a weekend, for a change. And this morning, I am mostly drinking Civet Coffee, or Kopi Luwak, a present from Indonesia.
Chalky] how awful - hope you're recovering and being properly pampered. Are you able to take proper time off to recuperate?
The grass has disappeared under 4 inches of snow but is already reappearing where I've walked on it due to heat from the ground. There'll be a frost tonight, though.
We've had a beautiful day here in south Lincs - cold, but sunny all day. Light frost this morning, but no snow.
Suet crisis
As I make dumpings today for the first time in my life, I can't help but feel that Atora has the suet market pretty much sewn up.
Sewing suet
Two words that go together like "bunch" and "water".
Snow
[Rosie] All we had here was a bit of sleet :O).
(Softers) Today it's all gone except for a little bit of a snowman made by next door's kids.
rab's dumpings
[rab] I think Lactulose might be a good idea if you've just made dumpings for the first time in your life!
Egregious evacuation
(Phil) I missed that. It would have given me an idea for There, there and everywhere but it's too late now. I will drop the matter.
[Rosie] I was surprised that you, Raak and Software hadn't spotted it (or had, but hadn't commented - that would have been more surprising).
Unfunny badgering
Now I'm a press officer for a conservation charity, I don't think badgers are funny. They cause too many awkward questions from the press.
[pen] You weren't implicated in the jam-slapping scandal, were you?
no comment
Badgers
I know from a friend's experience that when driving a Transit Van at 50 mph, a badger up the radiator grill is about as unfunny as it gets.
For the badger, too.
For the badger, too.
Brock
Badgers are the Holy Cows de nos jours. What's so wonderful about them, great lolloping things? They can be vicious and would make mincemeat of the average dog not that that would bother me.
[Rosie] ...unless it showed up in a pie you were eating, no?
(Tuj) Your are confusing mince with mincemeat, for which there is little excuse.
[Rosie] Not as bad as today's BBC news website (the front page story about the re-introduction of Moose to the Scottish Highlands) and their Science reporter confusing 'ungulates' with 'undulates'. Schoolboy error. I've emailed them about it already...
Oooh, and Polly Toynbee has replied in person to my quick email in praise of her column in this morning's Guardian, hehehehe! :o)
Oooh, and Polly Toynbee has replied in person to my quick email in praise of her column in this morning's Guardian, hehehehe! :o)
[Rosie] Both go in varying types of pies, no?
I appear to have developed an annoying peech habit, no?
(Tuj) Not to mention a typo habit, yes? It must be a bad day. :-) (pen) Pah! Small beer! I have received a personally-signed apology from none other than Ian Hislop for a very sick crossword clue in Private Eye, even if it did only consist of two words.
[Rosie] Now you must share the clue, so that we may all be properly shocked and outraged.
Cross Word
[Rosie] I find it hard to imagine you as Outraged of South London".
[Rosie] I should have seen that coming really. Ah well. Do carry on ;)
Happenstance or Serendipity?
End of day, ready to go home, I put "stilletto (misspelt) gerundive" into Google, got a single hit and it was you. Hello. Now I feel I have come home: will you have me?
[MD] Only if you're wearing socks.
(Raak) All right. The answer was spittle and clue involved Hawking. Filth is OK, good even, but don't mock the afflicted. The apology said "Point taken" and my guess is there were more than a few of them to be signed by the splendid Hislop, from which one cam infer that he had a word or two in the crossword setter's ear. (Softers) South London!!!??? That's outrageous! I'm in Surrey (just). (Me Dick) Well, personally, I'd rather not but there must be somebody and we are by nature co-operative.
Mouse of correction
For "cam" read "can". One can get awfully obsessed by Caprotti Valve Gear.
[pen] Yes, that was a good column. [All] I think Stilletto (Misspelt) Gerundive is an excellent game idea. Maybe Simons can get working on the rules.
Stilletto (misspelt) Gerundive
Instinctively I feel this would be a good game but what would be its aim? (CdM, pen) Toynbee's piece made a number of good points but by her standards was a bit ranty.
[Rosie] Yes, I see what you mean.
woohoo!
I've just completed my first bit of freelance writing for about 10 years - successs! And sent out the bill too... The lucky client, with a Monday-morning deadline to meet, found me online yesterday afternoon and got me working on a Saturday evening. We did the final edit this morning. Now I'm going to finish the ironing, which doesn't pay half so well.
Did that work?
Here's hoping everything went smoothly.
Hokay...
You may now find it is sometimes possible to go back and edit your last move. Any oddities, let me know. I think I've closed the loophole which would have allowed an infinite number of new games to have been started.
Rigt then
No, I meant this is a test. It works!
ooerr
[pen] Well done!
[Rab] That 'whoops' thingy made me jump when I posted earlier. It reminded me of that vaguely guilty feeling when one sees a policeman. It compelled me to re-read my post just in case I'd said something a bit wrong.
[pennylope] Me haven't done freelance writing since ooh ... way back when ... so much respect :-)
[Chalky] Hmm... I wonder if that's a desirable side-effect or not. I'm sure we'll get used to it!
Test message
Speaking of side-effects...sorry about that.
Get well soon Humph. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7360347.stm
Are there people in the Morningverse that actually know Humph or know people who know him? Could we get some kind of collective "get well soon" card in the form of a print-out of a game? It could be send via the Beeb.
Mystery Crescent - lame duck? This never looked like the server for it. Perhaps it should be culled for a good hard game of Stilletto (misspelt) Gerundive?
[Tuj] Patience my boy, patience :-)
(Kim) I used to know his trombonist and arranger, the late Pete Strange, not that that's exactly a connection, but I think your idea, or something similar, is a good one.
RIP Humph. All will miss you, I'm sure.
Irreplacable. A joybringer. To be missed by so many.
Very sad news. He was a wonderful man.
The Oyster Card of Fate has finally met the ticket barrier of Mornington Crescent.
The Humph tribute ISIHAC they had on the radio today is the only programme (radio or TV) that the cat has yet paid any attention to.
Humph
His obit in the Grauniad was written by none other than the late George Melly though it had been updated. It was less of a eulogy than some of the instant stuff we have read in the last few days but there's no doubt Melly thought well of him.
Humph
I propose to close the current Mystery game (it's trudging along anyway) and create a book of condolence for Humph in its place for all to place memories, anecdotes, comments, thoughts etc. I will also mention it in MCiOS and Orange. I suggest leaving it open until, say, Friday and then I will print it off and send it to John Naismith c/o the BBC. Agreement?
Alternatively,
I could just open an extra slot.
Ooh. Not been in for a while and just discovered the "Whoops!" feature. Lovely. The times I've needed that in the past (then again, the times I've only just noticed a typo/grammo when reading a comment years after the event). Nice one, rab.
Humph
Maybe now would be the time to send Kim's suggested "Get Well Soon" card? :)
Never mind, there's already something on Orange.
[Proj] One word at a time between us? ;)
... as I speak
There's a Humph BBC R4 programme currently being broadcast. Wonder if Rosie has caught it. I expect it will be on Listen Live for some weeks.
As the programme ended they said that there will be another Humph tribute, by the ISIHAC panellists, on May 11.
Afternoonpreferablyevenington Crescent
(Chalky) At 9.25 in the morning? You cannot be serious! I'll have a look on Listen Again.
[Roseee] we-e-ell - naturellement, I am aware [after all these years :-)] of your posting pattern time-wise - but I wasn't sure if you did the listen to Radio4 in bed of a morning - dozy off - listen again a bit - dozy off, etc etc.
Nocturnal transmissions
(Chalky) Nah, it would activate the neurons, as it's meant to, and I'd never get back to sleep. Maybe 24-hr rolling news would be better. Man Injured In Factory Accident In Solihull = Instant slumber. :-)
Radio 4 activates neurons? Shurely some mistake!
longweekendering
Morning all. Beans planted. Laundry done. Lawn not yet cut but first I must make progress on the feature I was supposed to finish on Friday. Hoo-rah for Citrix and being able to work from home, dammit.
Technically not a holiday for me today - but I'm skiving off on account that it's our first wedding anniversary. And what a glorious day it is! We spent the night at a nearby castle, had a slap-up meal and a sit in the sunshine. Unfortunately back at home now as we've both got work to do :(
Aren't people silly
I've just read my AOL news headline which says that the Postal Service is "not delivering".
We've just had new, energy-saving Dyson Blade hand driers installed in the lavs. They SUCK the water off your hands. Quite amazing. I wonder if they'll also dry socks?
The father of in[ter]vention
[pen] Flippin' Dyson - always poking his nose into other peoples' business. I actually like having damp hands when exiting the facilities. I also really enjoy changing the bag on my vacuum cleaner - and gain particular satisfaction from vacuuming in a straight line ;-)
Another thing, Mr Dyson - how are you supposed to flip the nozzle up to zhuzh up your lank, post-office (not Post Office) hair when there ain't no flippin' nozzle?
[pen] I was just talking to my son about the Dyson hand driers a couple of days ago. Ages ago I had the offer of a 30 day trial - wish I'd taken it up, but I never got round to it.
[pen] but, but ... it would SUCK your hair up. Not nice. Zhuzh by hand would be my advice.
The Dyson airblade is based on a very narrow, high-speed jet of air. I'm not sure that it does suck, but it certainly blows...very hard. It definitely collects the water blown off the hands, and atomises said water periodically into the atmosphere.
I HATE hand-driers. What a noisy waste of time, space, energy, everything. If your hands are damp wipe 'em on your bum. That's what it's for. Even if you don't do that they'll be dry in less than a minute especially if you rub 'em together briefly.
The most impressive drier I ever saw was in a bar in Dresden. It was called the 'AirWolf' and my (German) friend remarked that it appeared to be based on Rommel's desert air-conditioning system.
Air Dryers
Conventional hot-air dryers actually work and work quickly in Alberta. Something to do with the altitude, I've been told. After a few dryings your hands are like lizard skin though.
Well that one well-and-truly dried up, didn't it? In other news, I've killed ALL the ants that were invading my kitchen. Mwahahahahaha!
Formica topped
(pen) What about the army waiting outside?
[Rosie] Beautiful subject line. I was trying to think up something similar myself ;)
[Tuj] Hear hear. [Rosie] I pouffed permethrin into all the brickwork outside too.
Ant fever
[pen] Thanks for the tip. I'm a-watching and a-waiting.
All Ants on Dec
(pen) Pouffed? I can just see you. Only a lady could get away with that. Don't forget the boiling water down the cracks in the concrete. (Tuj) Cheers.
[Rosie] If not pouffed then what is the verb for the application of a powder to a surface (or into a crack or hole - oh dear, this just gets worse) by air-propulsion, generated by squeezing a slightly flexible plastic bottle? And I tried the boiling water first too :o(
[Chalks] I bought Homebase's own brand, about £3 - very happy. Ant free.
[Chalks] I bought Homebase's own brand, about £3 - very happy. Ant free.
Powder me nose and other parts, possibly
(pen) Yeah, OK, pouffed. But it does make me giggle.
[Rosie] You're not supposed to get it on your skin, so wash those affected parts immediately - you know, the ones that are making you giggle. ;o)
Ant Powder
[pen/Rosie] My family has always used the verb "to foof" (or possibly "fouffe" - the spelling has never been established) for what you do to get ant powder out of the bottle. In fact, the verb often gets repeated to become "I'm just going to foofoofoof that ant-hole."
Fizz ant
Possibly cruel, but quite entertaining is pouring bicarbonate of soda solution down the ants' nest - the whole thing fizzes quite satisfyingly and the poor wee ants themselves sometimes exhibit a certain anal effervescence too.
I have emerged, bloody, bruised but alive, from the end of term marking. How are we all?
Same as ever, ta. Do you have a clubcard?
Ants
There was a bloke on TV the other day who pours molten Aluminium down ant's nests. When it all cools down he digs it up and it looks really neat. A three-dee map of the nest. It also solves the ant problem in no small way. Like the powder, it isn't good for your skin.
Ally castings
(SM) I wonder. The ant's nest would have to be very dry or there'd be an explosion of steam, hot metal and pyrolysed ants. Not nice. Where does he get the aluminium from? He could melt down old saucepans, I suppose, but molten aluminimum is hot, 660°C plus, incipient red heat.
[Tuj] No. As a proud shopper at Auchan, though, I have a "Waaouh" card. Because the savings make me say "Waaouh!". Obviously. Yes.
Price floozies
Our local supermarket advertises something it calls a 'Price Commitment'. Since these signs disappear as soon as the so-promoted product increases in price, one has to wonder to what extent this counts as a commitment.
Changing topic...
[rab] With the "Whoops!" button, could one undo a winning move? More pertinantly, could one test several options until finding the winning move, if unknown?
[Tuj] (i) Yes and no. (ii) I think so, but would it really matter?
[rab] Yes and no, eh? There's cards close to the chest. I'm too timid to go test it ;)
And regarding the second, in theory, with patience, one could knock off the likes of Mystery Crescent single-handedly.
And regarding the second, in theory, with patience, one could knock off the likes of Mystery Crescent single-handedly.
Yes, but you could do the same thing, albeit more publicly, without the Whoops feature. If anyone ever suspects foul play I can always look at the logs.
I've just acquired a niece - what's the appropriate Unclely response? (Other than a brief note of congratulation).
[rab] No idea!
[rab] Go make a visit, if plausible, and be friendly towards. No point in sending gifts at present (lol) as too young to appreciate them.
[rab] A congratulations card. If you want to send a present, something for the parents to enjoy, rather than for the child, is better received in my experience. As Projoy says, the sprog is too young to appreciate anything, and it's the parents who will be feeling more in need of TLC, and perhaps a little neglected.
(should you doubt my credentials to offer advice, btw, I speak as one who was en-neiced earlier this year).
Visit no-go; parents live in New Zealand. Point taken vis a vis gift for them.
Family expansion
(rab) Can't remember; my nieces were born in 1974 and 1976. It's about time, therefore, that I became a great-uncle and if I were to I'd have a natter on the phone and send a nice card. I wouldn't visit - they'd have enough to do without me getting in the way.
rab] I became en-great-neiced last year, and while I agree with everyone about a pressie being unnecessary at this stage, gift vouchers were much appreciated. I gave Mothercare, and one possible NZ equivalent would be this lot www.babyfactory.co.nz/giftvouchers.html , assuming the parents live near enough to a store.
[rab] Send a cheque in the name of the new niece, which obliges the parents to open a bank account in her name, which you can then add to for each birthday/xmas, therefore saving yourself time and effort in shopping for presents. Saying that, I've just bought my godson (about to turn 13, mountain-biking, farm-dwelling, paper-round-operating) a set of Super-Duper bike lights (well, as Super-Duper as Asda will allow) and a speedometer for his birthday next week. On the other hand, my 3-year old nephew always gets cheques, and a freebie CD or DVD from the newspapers that I have to ready daily at work.
[rab] Also no idea, as I have no nieces. But something for the parents seems like a capital idea.
When my niece was born my wife and I bought things for the baby aged 6-12 months; the parent received so much newborn baby stuff they were rather grateful for things that wouldn't be useless in a few months time. I would suggest Baby Gap, as they contain really nice things that are a bit too expensive for parents to justify, but perfect for an uncle/aunt to get!
Or alternatively, the Hotel Chocolat New Baby Discovery Box, which is what we'll be getting for my sister who is due to have her second child in the next week...
Or alternatively, the Hotel Chocolat New Baby Discovery Box, which is what we'll be getting for my sister who is due to have her second child in the next week...
Thanks for your suggestion. We've emailed the proud parents with an offer of a sum of money in the form of gifts for baby, gifts for them, or invested into some kind of dullness fund. They'll let us know when mother and daughter come home from hospital.
In other news, we had the degree exam board meeting this morning and results are now posted. Most of the fun of the latter is now removed by exam numbers, rather than names, being posted.
[rab] Well that's no fun at all. I remember clearly the thrill of going to the department, reading my name, and then hearing someone hoot "LOOK WHO GOT A THIRD!"
Laughing stock
[nights] I didn't even have to go to the department - results for all subjects were posted outside on the walls of Senate House in Cambridge for all to see...
[Chalky] Could you drop me an email when you have a moment? [andrewdotjohn@ayadotyaledotedu] I can't seem to put my hands on your email address. Thanks.
[CdM] 'tis done
Aluminium Ant Nest Casting
This took me about a minute to find. There is a lot more about this on the web.
This weekend I am mostly....
learning about ancient woodland in Cheltenham, on a two-day course. Part work, part pleasure. See you Monday, thickets ;o)
Banter for its own sake
Beautiful June afternoon. Heavy sinister-looking cloud, gusty northerly wind, spots of rain, almost dark enough to need the light on, temperature 11°C. This reminds me, as did last summer, of some of the dreadful summers of the 50's. As I write this it's got lighter so no thunder. Not yet.
This weekend I will be mostly...
gardening. Finally, a weekend at home - the first one for a month!
Stormy Weather
[Rosie] It's them left-handed storms of which you must be more careful. Hopefully it turned out to be just a right-handed jobby.
[penelope] You made your new nest and have to accept the consequences. I feel no sorrow for your predicament as I have chosen to work from home. Tee hee!
[penelope] You made your new nest and have to accept the consequences. I feel no sorrow for your predicament as I have chosen to work from home. Tee hee!
[Phil] I saw his show 'Current Puns' a couple of years ago at the Fringe. It was good. Most memorable pun: I'm minded to see this one too, even if it looks like it might be somewhat similar.
Hidden text
I had a friend whose ambition was to be run over by a steam train. When he was, he was chuffed to bits.re cycling
[pen] " ... extra-tough for decades of comfortable, reliable daily service." LOL :-D
From €680? I'd want an engine too for that price! :-)
le météo
Weird at the moment. Huge storm last night, chilly yet sweaty today. Trams full of people. Nights not happy.
turns the volume right down to '0'
It's a bit quiet in here this week! Today I am mostly writing a press release, and this weekend I will mostly be listening to my mum singing in a 'Music for a MidSummer Night' choral concert in Lincoln. And planting more beans.
Home, where's that?
Mrs INJ and I will be spending a weekend at home for the first time since the middle of May. A bit of gardening is on the cards, but I will be helping out at the Derbyshire Schools Orienteering Championships on Saturday and maybe competing in an event on Sunday.
Half a silly van
I'm doing some G&S this weekend, but without the G.
Chinese Earring
[ImNotJohn] I wonder it's still called "orienteering" and hasn't made the jump to "orientationeering" in the twenty five years since I did any.
I miss the old OS maps. I stopped using them about the time they completed the old red-cover One Inch To One Mile series and began redoing the job in pink-cover 1:50 000 metric maps (talk about make-work in government!). They must have done all of the UK in metric by now I would think.
As a teen I salivated over the prospect of a complete collection of OS maps. I think I have six.
I've often wished for the same types of maps with the same degree of coverage in the places I've lived since leaving the UK, but other countries missed that particular boat and are unlikely to go that route now we have "better" GPS systems. It was one of the nastier shocks to find that other western countries didn't have super-accurate maps for the asking. I had to use boat charts and forestry "blueprint" jobs for the most part. Joni Mitchell had it right.
I miss the old OS maps. I stopped using them about the time they completed the old red-cover One Inch To One Mile series and began redoing the job in pink-cover 1:50 000 metric maps (talk about make-work in government!). They must have done all of the UK in metric by now I would think.
As a teen I salivated over the prospect of a complete collection of OS maps. I think I have six.
I've often wished for the same types of maps with the same degree of coverage in the places I've lived since leaving the UK, but other countries missed that particular boat and are unlikely to go that route now we have "better" GPS systems. It was one of the nastier shocks to find that other western countries didn't have super-accurate maps for the asking. I had to use boat charts and forestry "blueprint" jobs for the most part. Joni Mitchell had it right.
for ImNotJohn
Incidentally, it took me about five attempts to type your screen name without automatically inserting spaces (I tried Im Not John, ImNot John, Im NotJohn, then did some of them again before I got my brain to do it right). I've never had that happen before. Did you design for that effect?
Something for the weekend
I'm doing the world premiere of "What happened here - a retelling of Lear" tonite, and the second and final-for-us-but-hopefully-not-for-the-author show tomorrow nite. Sunday is a rest day :oD First Sunday without either rehearsal or show since nehwwonktnodi...
[Sierra Mike] I answer to INJ mostly. In fact elsewhere I tend to be just NotJohn - Im not sure why I've got the 'Im' in the Morniverse.
I'm also a bit of a cartophile - I've got 2 shelves devoted to them at the moment. I have a version of the StevieruleTM which goes 'No Map no Trip'.
OS maps now cover the whole of the UK at 1:25000 and are so much clearer than the 1:50000, which I use mostly for cycling. I still love the 1 inch tourist maps with the colouring & hachuring but you can't beat the large scale for navigating in mist/cloud. Also you get spoilt by the quality of orienteering maps 1:10000 or 1:15000 using specialised software, where you can navigate to the nearest 10 metres.
I'm also a bit of a cartophile - I've got 2 shelves devoted to them at the moment. I have a version of the StevieruleTM which goes 'No Map no Trip'.
OS maps now cover the whole of the UK at 1:25000 and are so much clearer than the 1:50000, which I use mostly for cycling. I still love the 1 inch tourist maps with the colouring & hachuring but you can't beat the large scale for navigating in mist/cloud. Also you get spoilt by the quality of orienteering maps 1:10000 or 1:15000 using specialised software, where you can navigate to the nearest 10 metres.
1:25000 maps
[S M & INJ] These come in an attractive orange cover, far nicer than the 1:50000s' lurid pink.
TQ 3516 5955
I have inherited dozens of OS maps from my cartophilic Dad, mostly 6th Edition but some older than that (pre-war). The expansion of some towns is phenomenal. Crawley, for example, was a compact place with a station and a high street but is now a vast, amorphous sprawl. The new 1:50,000 and 1:25,000 maps are more accurate and detailed than their older counterparts, particularly in regard of contours. There are sad (old meaning) bits such as "Course of old railway" and "Mines (disused)" (Yeah, so's mine). Even though the OS Grid has always been metric I'll never get used to heights in metres. My house is at 557 ft, not 169 metres, so I claim the title of Highest-living Morniverser.
[Non-mappies look away NOW] The OS Grid is a Transverse Mercator projection, prime meridian 2°W, based on a model of the Earth developed by Sir George Airy over 100 years ago. It's a tiny bit different from modern values both in size and degree of flattening. There is a scale reduction of 0.04%, presumably to allow for the expansion of the scale in the projection away from the prime meridian.
[Non-mappies look away NOW] The OS Grid is a Transverse Mercator projection, prime meridian 2°W, based on a model of the Earth developed by Sir George Airy over 100 years ago. It's a tiny bit different from modern values both in size and degree of flattening. There is a scale reduction of 0.04%, presumably to allow for the expansion of the scale in the projection away from the prime meridian.
ST 6370 7585
[Rosie] I cannot claim such a lofty domicile, but two minutes' drive gently uphill takes me to this point, Cossham Hospital, the highest point in Bristol at 369 feet (112 meters). On a clear day the views over the city, the Severn Valley, Forest of Dean and even the Brecons are excellent. Oh, and thanks for the techie stuff!
[ImNotJohn & Bigsmith] Blimey. We used to use the old red cover jobs when I was doing it, though admitedly I was less than serious about orienteering and probably just ran with an amateur crowd. I had no idea there was a 1:25 000 series of maps available commercially. Do they cover the entire UK? The only 1:50 000 OS map I can reliably put my hand on today would be "Land's End and The Lizard", and I can't for the life of me remember why I bought that one. I used a couple of Welsh ones until they fell apart but Land's End? When did I go there? It has some touristy annotations on it, like scenic photography overlooks and so forth, which my Welsh ones didn't. I suspect it was a detail added halfway through the print run or something.
[Rosie] That's a nice legacy you have. I didn't remember that the 1 Inch to 1 Mile series had a metric grid. I do remember that we were taught to read an OS map in Geography class when I was around 11 or 12. That's when I fell in love with the things.
[Rosie] That's a nice legacy you have. I didn't remember that the 1 Inch to 1 Mile series had a metric grid. I do remember that we were taught to read an OS map in Geography class when I was around 11 or 12. That's when I fell in love with the things.
[SM] It's the wonder of satellite technology. Effectively the whole country has been remapped (at least as far as contours are concerned) in a matter of a couple of years whereas before there was a large team of cartographers doing physical surveys. This has got rid of some of the more obvious mistakes that used to exist, although there are still paths shown going over cliff edges in a couple of places that I know.
For orienteering we normally start with a base plot (usually from the OS) with contour intervals down to 2.5 metres where appropriate (5m for very steep ground). There is then a specialised package (OCAD - there were others but this has come out on top) which has all the correct colours and symbols built in and you can build the map from that. There is still a need for fieldwork, but the whole thing is much slicker and maps get changed up to about 2 weeks before an event. Also with cheap high-quality printing most events now have the courses pre-printed - no need to copy from a master, and you can even run off more copies while the event is taking place if you get more than expected on one course. With electronic punching you get a print-out of your final and split times as soon as you finish and results from an event are on the web the same day. Up to about 10 years ago you left an SAE at the event and got the results about 1-2 weeks later.
For orienteering we normally start with a base plot (usually from the OS) with contour intervals down to 2.5 metres where appropriate (5m for very steep ground). There is then a specialised package (OCAD - there were others but this has come out on top) which has all the correct colours and symbols built in and you can build the map from that. There is still a need for fieldwork, but the whole thing is much slicker and maps get changed up to about 2 weeks before an event. Also with cheap high-quality printing most events now have the courses pre-printed - no need to copy from a master, and you can even run off more copies while the event is taking place if you get more than expected on one course. With electronic punching you get a print-out of your final and split times as soon as you finish and results from an event are on the web the same day. Up to about 10 years ago you left an SAE at the event and got the results about 1-2 weeks later.
More map stuff
For mountain walking I like Harvey Maps. They are at 1:40000, often photo-enlarged to 1:25000. They aren't as good in farmland as they don't show field boundaries, but they do show what is actually on the ground - there are different symbols for a right of way which is visible and one which is not visible as well as another for a visible path which is not a r.o.w.. They also change the colour of the contours to show rocky or marshy ground.
yes, I can't sleep
This weekend I will continue recovering.
I like maps but do not own many (only one proper map, really), mainly because we don't have much landscape over here. Or perhaps we have far too much of it. In any case, [INJ] I feel remarkably uneasy when I am in an unfamiliar place without a map, and I really need to know where North is. Changing hemispheres is very disturbing. I came very close to mapping our parts of Oman, at least as far as roads and such things go, because they (maps) either did not exist or were wildly inaccurate. But the cost of GPSrs was too high. I now have a nifty little one, and have been enjoying the occasional geocache, thanks to my sister and brother-in-law's introduction. It definitely helps break up long drives, and is a fun way to explore new places. I haven't done orienteering in at least 20 years.
I like maps but do not own many (only one proper map, really), mainly because we don't have much landscape over here. Or perhaps we have far too much of it. In any case, [INJ] I feel remarkably uneasy when I am in an unfamiliar place without a map, and I really need to know where North is. Changing hemispheres is very disturbing. I came very close to mapping our parts of Oman, at least as far as roads and such things go, because they (maps) either did not exist or were wildly inaccurate. But the cost of GPSrs was too high. I now have a nifty little one, and have been enjoying the occasional geocache, thanks to my sister and brother-in-law's introduction. It definitely helps break up long drives, and is a fun way to explore new places. I haven't done orienteering in at least 20 years.
Paths Off Cliffs
[ImNotJohn] For years I lived in a street that the local "A-Z" type guide showed as having a cross street where there wasn't so much as a kerbstone. When this error survived two reprintings I got clued in. By pure chance I was living next door to a copyright protection scheme. The map publisher had put in a fake street so that they could easily catch competitors who saved the cost of a survey just by copying their maps. I've learned since then that an awful lot of this sort of thing goes on. Dictionaries, thesauri (?) and encyclopediae (??) have fake entries in them to snare copyright infringers. The original pubishers work on the theory that you'd be unlikely to actually read the articles/entries since you can't get to them in any day-to-day use of the dictionary/thesarus/encyclopedia but only by reading through them serially.
I have to admit, sending someone off a cliff seems a bit much though. I hope this gets fixed in GPS sets since judging from recent news items some GPSers are a bit too slavish when it comes to following the directions their boxes give them and I wouldn't be surprised to read of someone stepping out into empty space.
[Bigsmith] Thanks for the map info.
I have to admit, sending someone off a cliff seems a bit much though. I hope this gets fixed in GPS sets since judging from recent news items some GPSers are a bit too slavish when it comes to following the directions their boxes give them and I wouldn't be surprised to read of someone stepping out into empty space.
[Bigsmith] Thanks for the map info.
1:25 000
Now nothing will suffice but that I order a 1:25 000 map of Land's end and The Lizard.
MapsspaM
I have a couple of 1:25000 maps covering my area of residence. A month or so ago I dug out one of them in order to scan part of it and send the resultant image to a cyber-acquaintance. I doubt that I had referred to this publication within the last three or four years. I also forgot to put it back in stowage that evening. The following afternoon my wife came home and plonked down before me a new copy of the very same map. Having given her a puzzled look she explained that the previous evening she had looked for the 'missing' map and, not finding it, thought it best to buy a new one.
midsummary
Hmmph. Raining and cool. The sweetpeas need it.
Paths to oblivion
(INJ) It could be a clifftop path that has disappeared due to coastal erosion if you're anywhere near the east coast.
(Bigsmith) So, Fishponds, Bristol, then. I had heard of it, for some reason, probably to do with the railway, which I see has been ripped up.
Bristols
Hmm, talking of Bristol, I'm going there for the first time shortly - any recommendations for good places to take a 3 year old and 5 month old? We've got the zoo on our (short) list already...
Cliff Paths
I wasn't clear enough. In both the cases I know of the path exists, but the line has been 'smoothed' to an easy curve and so doesn't avoid the feature whereas, on the ground, there is a deviation to miss it.
[SM] Yes, the false street is indeed a standard copyright protection measure.
[Rosie] You may hold the highest living Morniverser right now, but if so I probably held the title for a couple of years when we had a 10th floor apartment here in Singapore. Now we are back at sea level.
[Rosie] You may hold the highest living Morniverser right now, but if so I probably held the title for a couple of years when we had a 10th floor apartment here in Singapore. Now we are back at sea level.
higher, higher
Without having any idea of where everyone lives, I think that Dujon might be the loftiest Morniverser, since he lives on a mountain outside Sydney. The first Antipopilg in 2003 was at Blaxland, (1404 feet, or 427 metres) and I don't think he'd be much lower than that (if not higher up).
up and up
I was kidding about the apartment in Singapore, obviously, but I was living at 265m back in 2003-2004 when we were in Texas. In my pre-Morniverse days I lived at 188m in VIrginia and at about 280m in Ann Arbor Michigan. None of these surpasses Dujon. If I can go back to my childhood, though, I lived for a year at 946m, and INJ was at university at 1250m around the same time.
(I think there is a pretty good chance that INJ is also the person here who has been up the highest (while still staying on the ground) though I might be wrong about that.)
The roof of the world
flerdle) It may well be Dujon, then, for current residence. My feet-on-the-ground record is El Teide in Tenerife, 3717 m or 12,196 ft. The air pressure there is about 64% of sea-level pressure and you noticed it. Quite a lot of puffing and blowing climbing the few hundred feet from the cable car to the summit. Water would boil at 88°C, just about enough to thicken gravy but not enough for a decent cuppa.
I spent most of my first couple of decades at around 1000ft. It didn't seem very high at the time, probably because it isn't.
I lived for a year at about 420m on the Swiss/French border. It didn't feel at all high, because everything around was so much higher, namely the Jura mountains to the west, and the Alps etc to the south-east.
[Rosie] When I typed that about INJ I was vaguely thinking "we already had this conversation not so long ago", and your Tenerife posting reminds me that indeed we did.
Senior moment
(CdM) Probably my fault, then, because stuck on my bedroom wall is a b & w 1978 photo of me and half a dozen other herberts and several herbertesses, all from Croydon Astronomical Society, as we crowd round the summit marker. Where has INJ been? I think I've probably got the record for current UK residents. The modest height does make a difference in that snow, on the rare occasions that it falls, lasts much longer up here than in London and numerous occasions when there's light drizzle and mist whereas London is dry. Some of this is the London Heat-Island effect which on a warm calm summer night can be quite stark, with temperature differences of 8°C.
Walking tall
[flerdle] Thanks for adding a few inches to my height. I am at a mere 250 metres (depending on where on my little plot of paradise you stand) which is around and about 850 feet asl. As it is now approaching, if not past, the noon time I might pop down to my local club for a wee bit of luncheon delight, which should bring me home quite heady. Cheers.
[Dujon] You still win ;-) .
elevated positions
At the risk of blowing my own trumpet (but, hell, I am proud of it), my highest point is the summit of Mera Peak in the Himalaya at 6476 metres (21,247 ft). I now live at about 40m asl.
[Rosie] No, my fault, not yours. I just remembered because my highest is almost identical to yours, but in a completely different part of the world (Colorado Rockies).
(INJ) I'm impressed. Did you need oxygen? It's not warm up there either, is it? (Guess -15°C, if summer, plus a "breeze").
Just a trifle nippy
[Rosie] - No oxygen. I was slowed down by the lack of it, but not reduced to gasping. The main effect was that I lost my appetite completely. I was there in March-April, so pre-monsoon. Overnight it was regularly down to about -20°C. During the day there was a lot of bright sunshine, but I reckon the shade temperature didn't get above freezing; it was fleece jacket, thick gloves & balaclava even when working quite hard and down clothing as soon as the sun set.
Mera is the highest 'trekking peak' in the Himalaya, anything over 6500m is a 'climbing peak' even if there is no technical difficulty. However Aconcagua is higher and presents no technical difficulties and is only about 20km from a good motor road. It's probably the ultimate challenge for the non-climber.
Mera is the highest 'trekking peak' in the Himalaya, anything over 6500m is a 'climbing peak' even if there is no technical difficulty. However Aconcagua is higher and presents no technical difficulties and is only about 20km from a good motor road. It's probably the ultimate challenge for the non-climber.
(INJ) I'm further impressed. The pressure up there is about 42% of sea level pressure. Apparently the lack of oxygen causes considerable problems with cognitive tasks but as I imagine you weren't writing up a PhD up there it probably didn't matter. Well done! I could manage Leith Hill (965 ft) these days but probably not Snowdon (3561 ft) even if I called it Yr Wyddfa.
[Rosie] Acclimatisation helps a lot. We flew in to about 2400m and then walked in for about 10 days, mostly on the ‘walk high, sleep low’ principle, which got us to a camp at about 5300. We then did a short day up to 5800 and then a push to the top. I reckon the last 700m would have taken me a bit over 2 hours from sea level (I was fitter then), and actually took between 4 & 5 hours. We then dropped about 1500m, to below the previous 2 camps. As for cognitive impairment – I ‘lost’ a good part of the next day. I couldn’t remember much of it only a day or two later and have never been able to, even prompted by photos. Another interesting effect was that my tent companion went into a pattern of Cheyne-Stoking while asleep – disturbing when you first hear it, but common at altitude. Of course, one of the effects of the cold and low pressure is that the air is extremely dry – it was hard to drink enough, especially as water bottles exposed to the air froze. It’s the physically hardest thing I’ve ever done and I certainly couldn't do it now.
Result!
The good news is that we've discovered the cat is a mouser (one of the reasons for getting her). The bad news is finding this out obviously entailed a renewed incursion. We look forward to being woken up by her dropping half-dead mice on our faces and being shown how to kill them. Will need to look at the bait trays over the weekend to see where its been taken. Sometime over the next few weeks we're getting our floors repaired which should seal up some of the holes at least.
Revisiting the bait sites I discover the trays in the kitchen are untouched, which is good news, but the one I put under the sink cabinet in the bathroom had disappeared! I have an image of a family of mice living in a red tray marked 'Poison' somewhere down there...
[Rab] I've seen that Tom & Jerry episode...
A week with nothing to say? Yikes!
Perhaps we need a couple of new games, as we've not had any in 8 months (ignoring Mystery Crescent, restarted after running out of steam. Well gosh, it's run out of steam again!)
Mystery Crescent
I'll kill it off if no-one can be bothered to play (and if I can remember the winning move - I don't think I wrote it down anywhere).
I think Tuj is right. This is a great mc site, but we have perhaps let it get a bit stagnant. My vote is for keeping AVMA, since it is almost a defining game of this server, but some of the other games could be given a breather. And with that in mind, I've killed the clerihew game.
imho, pretty much any of the other games could be rested.
[Kim] I think that may be the case - it's suffered from not being quite the right game for the pace of the server.
Meanwhile, could Film Club be due a more meritorious retirement? The thing is, now we need to have some suggestions for new games to spruce up the place!
Meanwhile, could Film Club be due a more meritorious retirement? The thing is, now we need to have some suggestions for new games to spruce up the place!
I know I've not been here much recently, but perhaps Film Club could be retired in favour of a Book Club? Or if anyone was wanting to pretend to be youthful again, how about a video games club? It might test people's Google skills if nothing else!
Of course, at this time of year, Dunx's annual Festival of Crescent means that attention is necessarily (albeit temporarily) diverted elsewhere. But I'm always in favour of a cull.
You know you're getting old when....
[rab] .....two things happen. The first is - you can't remember the winning move of a game that you created and the second is, errrr...., oh yes, you have to ask for help in killing it.
[Kim] Think Richard O'Sullivan.
[Rab] None the wiser. I kept thinking of Gilbert O'Sullivan and it put me off.
Right, er, Chatsworth, or Lanhydrock maybe.
New game idea/request
Can we have a banter game of some kind?
Well, I wouldn't contribute to it.
Oh dear
Having instigated this, I feel responsible - and I certainly don't want blood on my hands if the game slots vanish entirely again =(
However, I've not really got any ideas. Except, well... I've seen an online game called NationStates where one runs a country via its inner workings. So I wondered if perhaps we could invent the continent of Morningtonia, each stake a claim to some land and then see how our national/international diplomacy skills are... and hope that the answer to the question "When does the game end?" isn't necessarily "NUCLEAR WAR!"
However, I've not really got any ideas. Except, well... I've seen an online game called NationStates where one runs a country via its inner workings. So I wondered if perhaps we could invent the continent of Morningtonia, each stake a claim to some land and then see how our national/international diplomacy skills are... and hope that the answer to the question "When does the game end?" isn't necessarily "NUCLEAR WAR!"
On second thoughts:
... I'd like to suggest a game called "Lead Balloon".
New game idea
Cat chess? This rules variant is slightly different from the last one I saw, but looks promising.
[Tuj] A game of Morningtonian Government sounds like fun to me.
New Games
I like both ideas that don't involve cat chess. I don't understand how Cat Chess would work. Bantering would be my vote if it is an ether/ore choice.
New Games
Have you noticed that there isn't a single game of "Mornington Crescent" in play on this server. Why don't we start one of those?
How do you play that then, Kim?
Blasphemy, apostasy, iconoclasm etc.
I dont' think MC itself works very well here. It really has to be played live so that the players can display all the mock-gravity and in-depth knowledge of arcane rules that this involves. It's a performance, really, and needs rather good actors.
Then maybe a game of 'Dress Rehearsal Mornington Crescent' will show what sheer hard work has to go into putting on a slick performance in the Game itself? I'm thinking this might give us an insight into the director's final, fraught instructions, the referee's frantic consultations with the rule book(s) and the performers' last-minute nerves showing through.
and then
Game slot still available, of the suggestions go along with pen.
Dusted the cob webs off the BBQ over the weekend. My only quibble was the sausages, those from the local butcher cooked a treat but the Walls sausages almost went up in flames they were spitting so much fat.
Dusted the cob webs off the BBQ over the weekend. My only quibble was the sausages, those from the local butcher cooked a treat but the Walls sausages almost went up in flames they were spitting so much fat.
[Rosie] A lot of the games are like that -- improv theatre, really. Take a look at the yorkives link on the front page here and contemplate the glories of the past, when MC was the main game played.
Ah, just seen it's CANCELLED - but I guess the question still stands...
(rab) Do you really need to ask that?
[rab] Yep, that's us. All things considered, just as well we cancelled (a couple of months back) as only one song is yet complete, and we keep going back to the synopsis and tweaking. Should show up next year in the form of a reading or full production, hopefully. We're devoting tomorrow to completing a 10 minute extract which will be done this year at Theatre 503 in London, then podcast as an audio-format musical.
Good luck. If you do ever come up to Edinburgh be sure to drop me a line so we can catch up over an IPA or something.
[rab] Coincidentally, I'll be teaching a course on the IPA next semester.
[rab, Néa] aɪd lʌv ə bɪə
Projoy's post
What do all the little squares mean?
(rab, Néa) Isopropyl alcohol is not good for you.
squarelets
[SM] They mean your browser isn't rendering International Phonetic Alphabet symbols
[Rosie] Any chance you can get the rain to stop? It's started leaking into our flat. Roofers have been called but they're a bit busy today.
Rain
(rab) Edinburgh, yes? It'll gradually peter out but Saturday afternoon brings another dollop. Hope you can get it done before then. This used to happen at work rather a lot so we set up an indoor raingauge network.
I suppose if you get 6% (21 days' worth) of your annual average rainfall on one day you can expect problems. Two surprising things about Edinburgh -it's further west than you think (more so than Bristol) and not as wet as you think. Paisley (just to the west of Glasgow) has twice as much rain as Edinburgh.
[Rosie] Rest assured, the men are up there now tying the chimney down. It needs to resurfaced or something, which means we need to get somewhere between 7 and 10 neighbours to contribute to the costs. Oh what fun!
(rab) What fun indeed! Glad it's never happened to me (yet). More rain Saturday but fairly routine stuff.
it is a-raining not in Tokyo
It has been pissing down (scientific term) here in Brussels for as long as memory serves. I drove the new Alfa to Cologne on Friday and visibility in the rain was worse than in a carwash. Don't you just love summer in Northern Europe?
Niederschlage
(ISP) The official term is AFPD. Take heart; this is a bad summer by most standards and least it's better than winter.
Smug
It has been a lot better over here than up north this summer. We have avoided rain for the most part (apart from 72mm in 4 hours the Sunday before last). It's looking a bit iffy for the rest of the week, though.
Deperately trying to think of something other than the weather to talk about
Does anyone here like cold tea? I do.
Cold tea
Yes, especially with ice and a slice of lemon or a sprig of mint.
Iced tea, yes. Hot tea gone cold: URHGURHUGHHUHYYEEAEAUURK.
I generally don't drink tea, but regularly drink hot coffee gone cold, and occasionally iced coffee. I hasten to add that if I had milk in my coffee, I would, in all probability, drink it neither iced nor gone-cold.
(Softers, Graham III) No, I meant tea gone cold. Great! Coffee gone cold is just as good. I make a virtue of necessity because having brewed it I get on with doing something and forget about the drink.
Cold tea
Well, I drink tea and coffee without milk anyway.
Once I have made myself a cup of tea, I'll drink it all, even if it has gone cold. Coffee less so. I love iced tea, and iced coffee, and make both at home in the summer. If I'm at home, I put milk in tea and coffee. If I'm in Holland, I'll drink them without milk.
Milk
Milk! Foul substance that from bovine teats expressed
For infant calves, man steals for ends perverse
Drinking that infant nourishment, whose end
Ends crated in the dark before the knife
Cuts short -- but to pick up the thread again --
Vile stuff for human stomach never meant
That rots i' the open air in scant three days
Else churned to yellow grease; or rotted more
With fungus mingled in ten thousand ways
Until it stinks like to the arse of Hades -- contd. p. 94
Re: Milk
Yeah, what Raak said!
What, no cheese?
Panna cotta, custard, Yorkshire puddings, macaroni cheese, icecream, buttered toast, cappucino, parsley sauce... [Phil, Raak] I don't believe you.
[pen] I was with you all the way until you mentioned parsley sauce, whereupon Raak suddenly started to make more sense.
[CdM] OK. Switch that to 'peppercorn sauce' for your rib-eye steak.
[pen] Well, I don't like milk, custard, panna cotta or cappucino; but the others are nice.
Lait, leche, llaeth etc
(Phil) What do you put on your cornflakes/shredded wheat/weetabix? Not syrup, I hope.
[Rosie] As a result, I very rarely eat breakfast cereals. If I do, the milk needs to be as fresh and cold as possible.
[Rosie] I put canned fruit on my muesli. If I ate porridge, which I don't, I'd make it with water.
Dairy products
I stopped taking milk in tea and coffee as a result of trying to reduce my cholesterol count. I like milk and cheese and all the things pen listed, so tea and coffee without milk keeps the intake down without too much pain.
Anyone who was a child in the late '40's will have had it drummed into them the milk was a Good Thing (free at school, off the ration) and as far as I'm concerned it still is, within limits. Nothing could beat slurping the cream off the top of the bottle, and still can't. Fortunately, at the moment I don't have a cat, which would obviously have first shout.
Showing my age
Free school milk nearly put me off milk for life. In summer it was stacked in the playground in the sun for a couple of hours before we got it, so it was always warm and slightly off.
I now only drink skimmed when I have a choice - full cream just tastes greasy to me. However I still eat too much cheese and use plenty of whole milk & cream in cooking.
I now only drink skimmed when I have a choice - full cream just tastes greasy to me. However I still eat too much cheese and use plenty of whole milk & cream in cooking.
I went off milk somewhere between 14 and 18, I reckon. I used to drink loads of it before then. The thought of the cream off the top of the bottle makes me feel queasy these days. Oh, and please don't even mention the "straight from the cow" option - yuk!
We have a cat but he doesn't like milk, or cheese, strangely. First cat I've known not to like either or both. We had school milk in the 50s, in 1/3 pint bottles, and a choice of orange juice (which I preferred) and then Jersey milk was very creamy (it's not now due to over processing). I can remember the milkman delivering the milk in churns and filling up a jug my mother used to leave on the doorstep. I think they introduced bottles in about 1956. Then bottles were replaced by humbug shaped Tetra Paks in about 1967.
(Software) Cats shouldn't have milk too often but binge-licking every now and again won't do any harm. Cats are also useful for hoovering up bits of chicken off the floor.
[Rosie] There is nothing useful a cat can do that a labrador and a mousetrap can't.
[Phil] Possibly true, but with a cat you don't have to keep careful track of which one you are petting.
[Rosie] Our cat won't eat cooked chicken either. [CdM} Another advantage of cats is that they don't need to be exercised or groomed regularly.
Ours occasionally comes along and licks the milk at the bottom of our muesli bowls. And she's much better at dealing with the mice than the traps. She also spends a lot of time sitting on the internet, acting as some kind of firewall I think.
[Rosie] True. But Phil might point out that the same is true of mousetraps.
We've recently discovered that there are at least two other cats in the building, which could be why we saw a flurry of mouse activity before we got ours.
I have just discovered that our cat likes icecream. As regards chasing mice he is a pacifist. The other day he was seen lying in our garden with a dormouse nibbling a fallen apple about 30cm from his nose.
My cat presented me with a very much alive and wriggling mouse yesterday. It was a great big ferocious critter, probably weighing well over a quarter of an ounce.
moustory
[Simons] And then? What happened next?
Well, I managed to catch it, then popped it in a cardboard box for an hour or so to give it a chance to calm down, then let it go, ready for the cat to catch at some other time.
(SM) The cat is turning into an angler, then?
random, catless
*complains about the cold*
Frigidity
(flerdle) Me too. It's a lousy August here. The temperature is staying mostly below 20 and my home-made sundial is getting very little exercise.
[Rosie] Your sundial doesn't enable you to dial up any sun?
Springy steps
As August fades into the past the promise of a new season is enticing my olfactory senses from their hibernation. A pleasant hour and a half of practice at my local bowling club (after which I was accepted as a member of the Hat-Wearing-Volvo-Driving Geriatric Club) combined with a beautiful and warm day (maximum 18.9ºC) has contrived an atmosphere of peace and tranquillity within the castle known as 'Dujon's Folly'. Oh, happy days.
Dial-up radiaton
(pen) Fat chance. I spent a long time getting all the geometry right (it's on a wall) but little chance of testing it. People on the weather newsgroup with actual sun-measuring equipment say that it the dullest August for a long time and scarcely better than January. That's when they're not hurling miss-spelt abuse at each other and generally acting like ****s, ****s and ****s, even. What gets into people? This is a haven of well-mannered sanity.
Putting a spell on you
[Rosie] Can I assume you misspelled misspell on purpose?
What do we think about that university lecturer's suggestion that the 20 most common spelling mistakes should be accepted as variant spellings? (For examples and the lecturer's argument, see article on Times Higher Education website.)
What do we think about that university lecturer's suggestion that the 20 most common spelling mistakes should be accepted as variant spellings? (For examples and the lecturer's argument, see article on Times Higher Education website.)
(Knobbly) Did you mean the "miss" or the "spelt"? The latter is an approved form in my C.O.D. 1964. Maybe the "miss" ought to have only one "s". As to the university lecturer, he is either playing Devil's Advocate, a posh way of saying "taking the piss", or is pretty comprehensively ignorant of language. His ideas have been well rebutted in the replies on the site. I see he's a professor of criminology. I'd lock him up and throw the key away. Know what I mean, guv?
(Rosie) Yes, I meant the "miss". One s from the prefix mis- and the other which was already on the beginning of the verb.
Meteorological irony
The air above about 3000 feet the last few days is very warm and dry and if the cloud disappeared the temperature would shoot up rapidly to about 28°C. But the lower layer of air is cool and moist and cloud can't penetrate the warm air, being cooler and therefore denser. So if the upper air were cooler there'd be some chance of the cloud being carried upwards and evaporating and we'd have a warm, sunny day. Maybe not 28°C but at least 23°C. BTW the sudden rise of temperature as you go up above about 3000 feet (in this case) is called an inversion and is a common feature. In Siberia in winter it can be as much as 25 degC warmer aloft than at the surface, say -20° compared with -45°.
Bah!
I'm working from home on a Saturday, trying to get stuff done before going on holiday for two weeks in a fortnight's time. But it's an opportunity to go through my CD collection one-by-one as I work. I hadn't unpacked them since I moved here almost a year ago. Right now: CD 3 of the complete collection of Vaughan Williams symphonies.
Blah!
I turned 50 while on holiday last week. I find it oddly liberating. Can anyone tell me why this is?
[Kim] It's because you know that your next birthday won't be your sixtieth :0(.
[Kim] Because you have realised that, despite the trepidation and build-up, you don't actually feel any different?
I ended up working most of Sunday too. And it rained. What a write-off of a weekend. Never mind. All of this will soon be over.
I ended up working most of Sunday too. And it rained. What a write-off of a weekend. Never mind. All of this will soon be over.
*complains about the cold. Again.*
Happy Birthday, Kim. 50 isn't that old. Not a lot you can do about it, anyway, other than walk in front of a bus beforehand (too late now).
Happy Birthday, Kim. 50 isn't that old. Not a lot you can do about it, anyway, other than walk in front of a bus beforehand (too late now).
Silver surfers
(Software) Neither will mine.
Shameless self-promotion, cross-posted at other sites
There's another beer and music festival this weekend at philspub
Re: trumpet blowing
Love to come, but ...
Since it has been so quiet here for so long, may I just say, a propos of nothing except general boasting, that I have just scored 227 in a single scrabble move? Thank you.
[CdM] Wow! How?
(CdM) Is that possible? 227 is a prime number and I thought scores were always multiplied by various factors rather than added. Apart from that, v good.
[Rosie] Presumably it was 59 tripled plus the bonus 50 for using all 7 letter from the rack.
I thought you'd never ask
[Phil, Rosie] The word was EQUISETA, played across two triple word scores on an existing Q, and also making the words ET and SWING. The letters in EQUISETA have a total value of 18 (including the double letter score on the I), which when twice tripled gives 162. ET contributed another 6 points (because it was also on a triple word), and SWING contributed another 9. That plus the 50 point bonus gives 227. (Note, by the way, that the tiles in my hand were worth a grand total of 7 points.)
It was a very high scoring game: my opponent got 417 points and still lost by over 100.
It was a very high scoring game: my opponent got 417 points and still lost by over 100.
I think CdM has stunned us all into silence with that accomplishment. In other news, I'm about to jet off for two weeks with the windy miller, taking in a road trip to Turin to visit a friend. On Monday, I am working 'from home' to finish off a press campaign (look out for Ancient Tree Hunt news about the 'Acorns to Ancients' seed collecting month hitting a local newspaper near you). And also,if anyone fancies a bosky trip to Hainault, there's a forest festival taking place in Hainault Forest from September 21 onwards - Speed Dating walks in the woods, anyone? Alternatively, learn woodland management, take part in forest art sessions, or take a guided 'Silent Walk' to listen to the sounds of the forest. If I wasn't elsewhere,. I'd go myself.
Well, you live and learn.. "Bosky" is definitely a word I'll endeavour to add to my everyday vocabulary.
To the woods!
(Phil) I'm surprised you didn't know it already, man of your calibre. I came across it as a teenager though I admit it's not used much.
[Rosie] When it comes to expanding my vocab, I'm all ears - which explains why I got called Wingnut at school, incidentally.
A propos of nothing...
Doubt if there's a game in this, but things have been quiet in here just lately, but I as wondering how high one could count with film/book names, particularly using just ordinals, rather than cardinals.. Starting with "First Among Equals".
Forty-Second Street?
The Third Man (oblig)
Born on the Fourth of July
The Fifth Element
The Sixth Sense
The Inn of the Seventh Happiness
One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest
10
Right up to the minute, we have The Eighth Wonder
The Ninth Gate
The Tenth Man (3.33 times more oblig than previously)
The Eleventh Hour
Twelfth Night: Or What You Will.
Apollo 13
Sticking to the ordinals concept
Friday the 13th
That classic: The Fourteenth Man
The Magnificent Seven
going in sequence after all:
15 Minutes
Pay Attention please
[Software] We're looking for ordinal numbers here, so the next one is Fifteenth
Mind you I think we must be getting close to the limit
Mind you I think we must be getting close to the limit
The Fifteenth. (But I admit that I have started cheating now.)
[INJ/CdM] I have cheated this morning and discovered that the lowest ordinal for which there is not a non-TV, feature-length film is 31st!
I have a couple in mind for later on, but I looked up 14th. On the other hand Phil's original suggestion included books, and I don't see why we should exclude made-for-TV films as long as they're feature length (say 80 mins minimum). I'm surprised at 31st not being there though as the last day of 7 months and last day of the year.
Further cheating
And when I do look I discover I actually did know a book with 31st in the title - annoying, that.
Ancient film
Knuckles rapped but - Quartorze Juliette
Then something with 33rd, then Miracle on 34th Street.
[Software] I'll say, I wouldn't stand for that kind of spelling from one of my students.
[nights] Nonono, it's a sort of French Kind Hearts and Coronets, in which Mme Binoche plays fourteen different roles.
[CdM] I see. I'm still not impressed though, Juliette Binoche is bad enough when she's just playing one role, let alone fourteen.
Quiet in here.
For the benefit of Ms Pitstop
I saw my first F1 race last night. It was rather fun in a loud fast car sort of way.
Noisy cars
[CdM] Ah - beat me to it. I was just going to ask if you'd watched it, and if not, if it had had an impact on your night.
[Phil] I saw the race from a slightly unusual vantage point. Because the race went by Singapore's business district, a number of offices with good views hosted parties, and we were invited to one of those. I was a bit sceptical beforehand, but it was actually really cool: an excellent birds-eye view of about one third of the track. A group of us also went downstairs for a while in the middle of the race, where we couldn't see much but could certainly hear it. This way of watching the race also had a couple of other advantages: food and wine; and access to television coverage. Given that I don't really follow F1 that closely, I liked being able to hear commentary while watching. I'm sure that being trackside would be a different experience, but I'm not sure I would have gotten so much out of it. All in all, a fun evening.
[CdM] Ah, but did you see where the race was won and lost: i.e. in the Ferrari Pit?
[CdM] I've heard trackside isn't so great, especially if you don't speak the local lingo. A friend of mine was phoned by someone at Spa to find out who had won the grand prix he'd just been watching, as he couldn't find out at the track.
Trackside at the British Grand Prix a few years ago, we were given little radios with earphones to get the trackside commentary, which was excellent. It's a lot more exciting close up - especially in the wet...
Shame about Dress Rehearsal. Never mind though, eh. Anyone have any ideas for new games?
I've just had one. An idea. Condensed books? Summarise the plot of a book in a particularly glib fashion, much like "So the Danish guy dies".
New games
(nights) Good idea, not that I'd be the star contributor.
New Game
[nights] I think something similar has been done somewhere before - but it could be anywhere in the last 12 years, so I'm certainly up for a new version.
New Game
I am an occasional contributor to, but mostly an amused reader of the "Ridiculously Easy Poetry" game currently being played in another place. Certain opening lines seem to come up quite frequently, sometimes involving fleas. I wonder whether a poetry-based "hillocks" game would be enjoyable for a while ("If I should die and go to Innisfree"). Any thoughts?
[nights] We definitely played that game a couple of years ago -- iirc it involved three-word and then two-word summaries. That doesn't mean we couldn't resurrect it, of course.
[Kim] I like that idea...
[Kim] I like that idea...
[CdM] I think that was "Butler Did It" and it was more than a couple of years ago. :)
Well, as the consensus seems positive, I'll create the game.
Me, too.
Who's a hillock?
I don't understand. Boo hoo hoo. What's the point of the new poetry game?
What a Hillock
Don't cry... "Wuthering Hillocks" is a game which aims to ease the poverty of the TV, film and book industries by suggesting inexpensive remakes of old hits, for example "One walked round the cuckoo's nest" or "Who wants to be a milliner?". I'm guessing that the first lines in the new game should be cheap versions of fine famous poetry. Is that it nights? As for the point of it, well...
Never Mind The Hillocks
[BL] Nothing to do with me, squire. I think Kim is the man (or possibly woman, but I think man) you need.
Oh yes...
I read back as far as "I'll create the game..." above... So - Kim?
Hillocks for the uninitiated
Yes, blamelewis has it right. "When hillocks collide" was an early-ish game on MCiOS and was set in the genre of film. It basically describes the scene of an accident. The film version generated such classics as "The Man Who Wasn't There Who Knew The Man Who Shot The Man Who Fell to Earth in Iron Mask With Two Brains", "One Million Years in Tibet" and "Sink the Titanic!". I mused idly that one could do something like that with well-known lines from poetry, hence "If I should die and go to Innisfree". I hadn't really thought about a ruleset, but perhaps there should be a minimum of two lines and no maximum, the metre of the first line should determine the metre of subsequent lines, rhyme is nice, but not essential. Is that enough to be going on with, folks?
*sigh*
It's a lovely day. I wish I'd got washing out on the line.
Behold!
(pen)
Earth has not anything to show more fair:
Dull would he be of soul who could pass by
A sight so touching in its majesty. (Wordsworth).
Earth has not anything to show more fair
Any more fares?
Any more fares?(Flanders & Swann)
Any more fares?
Any more fares?(Flanders & Swann)
My wife has been cleverly filtering the (snail) mail the last week so I ended up thinking the only people who had remembered my Birthday were the TV Licensing people.
rabturous
Happy Birthday!!
Happy Birthday to Rab!
Additionally, does anyone have anything fun planned for the weekend?
Habby Pirthday, rab!
[nights] No.
I'm being taken out tonight for a mystery meal. I think.
[rab] Taken all the labels off your tin cans, have you? ;) Slightly belated returns from here too!
[Tuj] Ah, what we used to call The Fabulous Mystery Dining Experience, back when I lived in halls. These days, if I cook out of cans, I'm sneered at by all the French people I know.
(nights) Not surprised; you're supposed to put it in a saucepan. :-)
I planted trees today. And then went dancing. All in all, quite satisfying.
Why on earth would anyone ever want three differently-coloured phones on their desk?
To match their handbag on any particular day, of course. (Well, if Posh can buy cars to match her clothes....)
Phones
If it was good enough for Reginald Perrin...
More Phones
...and a fantastic Pete & Dud sketch...
Seasonal update
It's blissfully cold this morning. Very refreshing.
I'm just glad the wind's dropped. The sign on the front of our local Post Office blew off when we were out yesterday (but, luckily, not right in front of the building).
[rab] It's probably a sign.
[Kim] No, it was a sign.
Just had the following train announcement: "Please note it is illegal to play pre-recorded music of popular music artists on trains or at stations because we do not hold a performing rights licence". Not simply because it annoys the crap out of everyone.
[rab] That leaves you clear to broadcast the back catalogue of any unpopular music artist...
muzak
(rab) I wonder if that applies to shops. I hope so.
Muzak
Unfortunately, most places, including my butcher, fork out for the PRS (aka thieving bastards) licence. The butcher, since you ask, has a radio playing, hence he needs the PRS licence.
The PRS
(Phil) I don't see why musicians shouldn't be paid for any public performance though I don't know the scale of charges. Yes, I am in the MU. I would have thought you would have been more put out by the cost of a music licence from the local council, for which you receive bugger all except a piece of paper and a bill.
"Music Licence from the Council"
No such thing any more. It all comes in the premises licence these days, thankfully.
Pub bore
(Phil) Ah! Didn't know that. But does it cost more if you are licensed for music or are all premises licensed thus?
On a different subject what do you think of the practice of discretionary closing times?, i.e. the pub will stay open the advertised extra half hour if the manager thinks it worth it on any particular evening. To me it's wanting to have your cake and eat it, or less formally, taking the piss. If you're in the pub you don't know how fast to drink or whether to have another half, say, or if arriving late, as I often do, whether the pub will be open or not. To be on the safe side I will be assuming that the place will be closed at all times, as are many of my mates. There's quite a good choice in Carshalton and I wonder if the new manager knows that. He will soon.
[Rosie] Here in Embra there's been 'late' opening for quite some time, which means most pubs close variously between 12 and 1am, and a few staying open to 3 (or 4 during the Festival). It's generally been accepted that if a place is rather quiet, it might close early, but that it's good etiquette for the staff to go round about half-an-hour beforehand to let you know that this is likely to happen, and to suggest venues that are likely to be open later. Seemed to work rather well. (I say 'seemed', as my late-night drinking days are largely behind me now).
I'm bored
I've stopped opening emails today. They've all been boring so far this morning - or have been asking me to do things I don't have time for, so I thought I'd save myself the hassle and stop opening them altogether. People will soon get the point and stop sending them.
pubs
(rab) That's reasonable if the hours are as late as that but my "local" is merely extending from 11 to 1130, and on Sundays from 1030 to 11, each night at the manager's discretion. For a "regular" that won't do because one of the points about a favourite pub is its predictablity. This seems a blundering accountant-driven policy or maybe the manager's just a lazy arsehole. We are taking punitive action.
I don't know why, but when I'm in a different timezone, I feel normal rules don't apply.
Los geht's
Anyone care for a mug of kitten?
[Knobbly] Milk no sugar please.
Black with ginger please.
Variable opening
[Rosie] I believe I've spoken on this matter on another site, but the crux of the matter is that I'm with you on this one. My pub is licensed until 1am on friday and saturday, but I close at 12. Customers need consistency, and they need to know where they stand. On very rare occasions, I will stay open until 1am, but that is for the likes of our football team's annual prizegiving, and they all know in advance. They tend to leave about 12.30 anyway though. If the pub has 50 customers one friday night and you stay open the extra 30 minutes, what happens next week when there are 45 customers. You make yourself an immediate target for bickering. If you going to take punitive action, may I suggest you let the gaffer know before you do so, as he may not notice. He also might be more likely to change his ways in advance of losing custom.
[Rosie] Your other question. No, there is no variation in cost that tallies with what your licensable activities are. You do, though, open yourself up to a much bigger can of worms in the matter of your neighbours and their potential objections.
Chucking-out time
(Phil) I think the manager may have seen sense, though not through customer persuasion AFAIK, because there is now a completely new regime after less than a fortnight of this arbitrary stuff and the pub now has a 24-hr licence all week and is advertised (in the bar) as being open from midday to 11.30 a.m., the half-hour closed being apparently to put a few things in order each day. There is no mention of management discretion on the notice. Does this mean I can stay there drinking, probably alone, until 4 in the morning (say)? What on earth is the point of that because Carshalton is not exactly Soho. I'd like to know what's going on but the barman (not the manager) couldn't help, or wouldn't.
[Rosie] Have you been in the bar since Monday then?
(Phil) Sanity has prevailed with the appearance of yet another regime in which closing time is 1130 (pm) except Friday and Saturday which are midnight and Sundays which are 11 pm. These are modest extensions to the original times. The manager could have kept his itchy fingers off the keyboard and printer until he'd made his mind up but all's well that ends well.
(pen) Shurrup. Wha' if I 'ave? :-)
(pen) Shurrup. Wha' if I 'ave? :-)
Hours and Hours
Over here one has to move pub to get different closing times, it's all according to the type of licence issued, i.e. whether or not the licensee is able to have live music. Very strange but one gets used to it.
Hmm, looks like this site is about to become target for a lorryload of spam. Will need to think about tightening up the security I guess.
In the meantime, you might want to check the status of our latest building project.
[rab] Nice lav ;o)
[pen] That one's on its way out. The new one is sitting in a box in the spare bedroom.
[Rosie] Glad to hear you have stability again.
zbchk bnud
maith fthmri fuqv ktndamcs yetxq latids umgjkyftd
So nice to see we have visitors from another galaxy.
I thought it was one of us posting from a palm raspberry thing straight after emerging from the dentist's surgery.
(pen) :-)
Ching
Nice dusting of snow this morning, oddly, more in front of than out the back of the block.
Noting a slot and the date, does anyone have any inspiration for an advent-themed game of MC?
[Tuj] Done. Can you wait up until midnight to make your move? Sorry if that was a bit rude...
[pen] I knew someone would be able to hatch my half-idea =) thank you!
[Tuj] You're going to have to wait another day for a morsel of chocolate. Softers just got today's.
Odd Problem
Sorry to interrupt, but I need to get a message through to rab and the firewall here is stopping me posting to OMC/N&Q at the moment. I'm seeing a nod problem with the index page here at MC5. The names and moves displayed on it are not the same as those showing last in the games themselves. Is anyone else seeing this, or is this confined to my proxied-by-idiots world? Am I living in pre-cached hell again?
All looks fine here, Stevie.
Looks like a caching problem at your end, but I've resynched the index with the game data anyway.
Chocolate covered cache. Ooh!
[rab] *sighs* Okay. I'll resign myself to never seeing the site in it's real state then.
I could try adding the appropriate http header to try and request a non-cache.
OK
See if that works.
Cache Deals Only
[rab] Seems to have fixed it for now. Clever, you.
It's almost a week since anyone said anything, so I'll break the silence. I think I've moved into the 'finishing off projects' phase at work before my last day in the office on 23 December. How strange this is...
Not at all unusual if you are a proper professional, pen, which I assume you are.
I'm definitely demob happy now. I'm finishing off other people's jobs and bringing mince pies into work. I don't even like mince pies that much.
It gets very quiet in here over the weekend. Does that imply that most of mc5s posts are posted when the poster ought to be working?
[Knobbly] I am shocked, shocked to hear such a suggestion!
[knobbers] How very dare you??!!
I'd really like to express my hurt at the suggestion but, since I'm at work at the moment, I can't.
[Knobbly] Now look what you've done! Everyone is too ashamed to play any more. There has hardly been a move in any game for two days.
Shhh! Some of us have work to do, keep the noise down.
BOO! .....apologises to neighbours.....
Chirp
We've had a lot of dealings with tradesmen recently. None of them too disastrous (although there is still one job outstanding in the bathroom, scheduled for 8am tomorrow). But when something really good happens, I get so pleased. Our roofer was scheduled to check a few things out tomorrow morning in advance of the down-tools period (I had visions of a waterfall coming though the extractor fan on Christmas day). He phoned me up just now saying "I'm in the area, shall I come now?"; leapt onto the roof, found everything that was wrong with it and told me it would be thirty-five quid to fix. It was done in about the time it took me to get to the cashpoint and back.
Oh, and when I told him that one of his rivals told us we needed a whole new roof, he looked at me like I was mad and said, "Nah... this one will last about 20 years".
[rab] Is your bathroom fixed now?
This is my last day at work...
Woken by the telephone at ten o'clock this morning. Augh! The four best hours of the day lost in slumber, never to return! Oh well, I doubt if anyone else is at work today.
[Raak] I'm trying to plan a night off on Jan 2nd. It looks like it might work -)
[Raak] I'm still at work... Can't afford any time off, as I need all my leave for the imminent arrival of a new addition to the family. So I'll take this opportunity to wish a Merry Crimbo to everyone at MC5!
Merries
Happy wotsit. I'm obliged by the cult of Jobs to tell you this comes via my Father's iPhone.
Happinesses
Phew, Christmas successfully accomplished in the traditional manner. The Windy Miller is, this moment, accompanying the AA man in their attempts to get the car started, in anticipation of driving back to the Netherlands tomorrow. I have a chicken curry simmering on the hob, and was until a few moments ago, studying a book of Heath Robinson illustrations. Next, we will play with the new kitchen-windowsill weather monitoring station and see if we can't find out how to turn the outside temperature up a bit.
twelve days of Christmas
Monday, 2 December - the third consecutive day with a visit from the AA man. Today, they are taking the car away to a garage to be fixed. The advantage is that I get to spend extra time with the Windy Miller (we went to the cinema to see Australia last night - our first-ever cinema date. Marvellous cinematography, probably a lot of it CGI, but sh*t writing - maudlin, predictable and worst of all, it had Nicole Kidman in it). The disadvantage is that he is getting impatient as he has work to do back at home.
this year
I'm packing, and moving. Moving and packing. Eek!
[pen] You have my deepest empathy.
[CdM] Ignore Pen, it may not be great, but her way of seeing Australia is a lot less bother than yours.
[pen] It's a new beginning - sounds exciting. I enjoyed my 2 years in the Netherlands and would probably have stayed longer except for my ex.
epjlqroab nfpaub
hajoqpr budr znbq zoaidfeum cbrglknov mtsjiaex bveowfzyt
My heavens he's found me - anyone available to give me a lift to Bletchley?
Very cryptic, Duj :o)
I wonder if epjlqroab nfpaub is the same person as zbchk bnud from back in November?
[Knobbly] Don't be ridiculous, the names are completely different from each other.
Moving day T-3
I have two chairs and one lamp left. Everything else has been sold or is in boxes. Even my bed will sell on Ebay today, and a mate with a garage will sell my car for me. Lummy.
So you weren't joking when you said you were leaving, pen. :o)
Holland
[penelope] Where will you be living? Will you be using only public transport once you move? I've never been to Holland but I understand they have invested heavily in public transportation.
dead game?
Has Film Club run it's course, or does someone else want to suggest a new subject for it?
Public???
[SM] Public transport? Heavens no. I will be riding a stately omafiets, a birthday present from my schatje molenaar.
omafiets
[penelope] Would that be a bicycle, horse, moped or skateboard?
It's a 'granny bike' - big wheels, sprung seat, upright handlebars, luggage rack and shopping panniers, enormously comfortable and particularly suited for flat places.
Fietspads
[pen] In my my experience the wind always blows in you face whichever way you are cycling in Holland, making the traditional bikes hard work.
[Softers] Yup. But mine's aluminium so pretty light. And the wind blows against you wherever you cycle in Lincolnshire too, so that's nothing new.
Velocity vectors
(Softers, pen) The only possible conclusions are that either there is no wind in Holland, Lindsey and Kesteven or that you never cycle at less than about 50 mph. Impressive.
Bike
[penelope] The sprung seat is particularly suited to flat places? :)
Does this bicycle come with one of those teardrop-shaped "Pifo" electric horns that were so popular the last time I rode a bike?
Does this bicycle come with one of those teardrop-shaped "Pifo" electric horns that were so popular the last time I rode a bike?
[flerdle] Nice one. I read the linked article, then took a mouthfull of hot coffee just as I got to the bit about "30 blasts from one pumping-up". I immediately pictured Inspector Clouseau, in disguise, madly pumping as he cycled toward a pedestrian crowd (the parrot-inflation bit in the "Salty Swedish Sea Captain From The Salty Sea" scene is one of my favourite Sellars moments).
I'm probably going to need a new workstation keyboard now.
I'm probably going to need a new workstation keyboard now.
I've been a fan of Matthew Somerville's alternative front-end to the National Rail website for quite some time, traintimes.org.uk, on the grounds that it works better than the real one. He's recently added a live train map, and I particularly like the description of how it works:
Live departure data is fetched from the National Rail website, much like my timetable site, and then it does a bit of maths and magic.
Blowin' in the wind
*blushing* I drove the windy miller to his usual Saturday leading the volunteers and various lads at the mill this morning (practising driving (a) on the wrong side of the road and (b) on the wrong side of the car) but we were a bit later than his normal arrival time. You can see the mill from some way off because of the flat landscape, and when we were about half a mile away, the WM could see the sails were already turning and exclaimed: 'There are flags on the sails!'. As we got closer, we realised what they were. There was a Dutch tricolour on one sail, and a Union flag on the opposite one (bought specially off t'internet). And there were muffins and stroopwafels to have with coffee there this morning. Then I came home, made soup, tidied up a bit, and watched Alec Guinness in Cromwell on BBC 2 which you can get here. Bloody marvellous :o).
Arrivals
[pen] Yay!
*fancies a stroopwafel - all of a sudden*
Welkom
[pen] Nice. Watch out for the speed cameras ;o). The cable channels carry only the BBC (for copyright reasons, apparently) but if you live near the coast you can get all the UK channels (analogue ones, only probably) on an aerial.
[penelope] Happiness to you.
Thanks all :o)
Back to the mill tonight - it's floodlit farming night, so farms and mills on the island of Hoekshe Waard (that's this one) will be floodlit for busloads of sightseers to tour.
This morning's trip to the small supermarket lead me past two market-stall type vans in the main street of this large village/small town. One was a cheesemonger, on whose stall I spotted a small solitary block of English cheddar, bright orange and tightly encased in plastic, amongst the big wheels of Dutch cheese and the small morsels of some of the better-known French cheeses. There are so many good British cheeses, but none of them are known here. Hardly any of them are known behind the counters of Tesco either, but that's a different problem. *goes to chivvy up the British Cheese Marketing people*.
Back to the mill tonight - it's floodlit farming night, so farms and mills on the island of Hoekshe Waard (that's this one) will be floodlit for busloads of sightseers to tour.
This morning's trip to the small supermarket lead me past two market-stall type vans in the main street of this large village/small town. One was a cheesemonger, on whose stall I spotted a small solitary block of English cheddar, bright orange and tightly encased in plastic, amongst the big wheels of Dutch cheese and the small morsels of some of the better-known French cheeses. There are so many good British cheeses, but none of them are known here. Hardly any of them are known behind the counters of Tesco either, but that's a different problem. *goes to chivvy up the British Cheese Marketing people*.
Cheesy lines
[pen] Perhaps if you polish off the advent chocs we could have a game writing slogans for cheese!
mmmm, cheese...
gah
I was putting together my advent chocolate feast when my internet connection broke - actually the wind dropped on the windy miller's wifi network. So if anyone can polish off the chocolates and start on the cheese, they'd be welcome to do it.
Pilgrimage
BTW, there will be a Pilgrimage in London on Feb 14th, if anyone's interested.
[penelope] eat local food - the world will thank you for it much later.
[Phil] I do, mostly - the potatoes here are particularly good, they actually taste of potato. But if they're going to import some cheese from the UK, you'd think they'd cart the good stuff about, not the orange plastic-wrapped-in-plastic stuff, wouldn't you? They seem to manage to bring in some decent French cheese.
Cheese
[Pen] Actually, the Dutch tend to like their plasticky orange cheeses - Edam and Gouda being cases in point - but some of the smoky varieties are very nice, and you should be able to get tastier Boerenkaas and goat cheeses if you look hard enough. I don't know where your windmill is but I assume there isn't an English shop round the corner. Are there no local farmers who make their own? Have you tried whingeing to Windy? On an unrelated note, are you coming to Othello? I can put you up...
Good try
[IS,P!] I'm almost ashamed to admit it, and please don't take it personally, but theatre ain't my bag. I struggle to appreciate drama and hardly watch films - Jan and I went to the cinema for the first time together in December, two years after we met. Sooo I will leave an Othello seat for someone who will appreciate it more.Perhaps we should have a Brussels Sprouting Pilg at some point though.
*has just google-mapped peneloopij's woonplaats*
Pilgrimage
[SM] Is that for people who don't have anything else to do on Valentines Day?
Slogans for cheese?
And now there's a new game slot, shall we start a Cheesy slogans game?
[Kim] What else might one have to do on Valentine's Day?
[Kim] What else might one have to do on Valentine's Day?
Cheese
[pen] I remember being aghast in a supermarket in Perigord (admittedly in a fairly ex-pat-filled town), and seeing Red Leicester amongst the French cheeses. Especially galling was the £11 per kg price tag!
a nice bit of...
[Phil] That's marketing for you! I'd like some jong Lincolnshire Poacher, voor mij.
[Phil] French Cheese. Galling. I get that.
I like all cheeses, but some better than others, obviously.
[Softers] Have left a question for you in AVMA - I assumed you would be looking in there. Perhaps a reply in here might be best, if that's OK with you. [ Then all will be revealed :-)]
[Soft] Ah - I've just seen it. Thanks. The reason I asked - have to go to St Helier to do some work in early Feb and thought it might be nice to connect. But as you're not there ....
:-(
:-(
3rd time lucky
Potty mouth? You ARE in Jersey, then?
St Helier
[Chalks] Yes, I am here, well I work in St Helier and live just outside. When you over?
[Softers] Any chance of you emailing? k/e/davenport/@/// gmail.com [sans hyphens - natch] :)
Well?
We're all dying to know - did Softers email Chalky? Will the Jerseypilg go ahead? Find out in next week's episode of... Chat
*chuckles*
[peneloopij] He did. It may.
In the meantime...
Sunny and very cold today in Zuid Holland. We may even yet go for a bike ride. I have no idea what my windy miller is doing downstairs while I'm upstairs trying to write something, but it sounds like he's reorganisisng something and I'm afraid to go and look.
Windy Miller
[Pen] Please tell me he has a blue coat, a red necktie and a brown upturned-flowerpot hat...
As You Like It
[IS,P!] why certainly. He has a blue coat, red neckerchief and a brown upturned-flowerpot hat. The coat and neckerchief are in the laundry basket waiting to be ironed, but he keeps the hat in the car.
You don't press his hat?
Good grief, woman, what are you thinking about? Everyone from where I came from has a flat hat (they, the wearers, are said to also have whippets and cobblestones and ghosts, but that's just not true). Even I have one! (pictures available at £150 each, on request - and after a full security cheque (price to be negotiated)).
Highly Rural
It seems to me that Pugh, Pugh, Barney McGrew, Cutherbert, Dibble and Grubb will be getting jealous of all this attention.
Clarification required
[Dujon] You have one what? Ghost? Cobblestone? Whippet?
And anyway we'll have the RSPCA round to you for ironing your whippets.
You don't need to iron a flat hat - the incessant beating of the rain on it will do that for you.
And anyway we'll have the RSPCA round to you for ironing your whippets.
You don't need to iron a flat hat - the incessant beating of the rain on it will do that for you.
Just so you know, reading this conversation is like looking at a Dali painting to me. Every time I think I'm getting the drift of it, one of the pieces flops over and makes a shape like an elephant (or a swan).
hatters
[Duj] it's not a flat hat - we're talking about the traditional attire of windy miller, the hat is upturned-flower-pot shaped. The landscape here in South Holland is flat. I can see how you got confused.
[pen] Wait. You are ironing the landscape?
[CdM] A man knocked at my door and asked if I wanted my garden landscaped. I don't think my neighbours would appreciate me turning my portrait garden sideways.
[Phil] proper lol and in the office too.
Well, well, well
I suppose that the next you lot will tell me is you don't launder your money. Honestly! What are Great Britain and the Nederlands coming to? Whatever, I bet it's a bit warmer here (excluding the Mint investigations) than it is at your picturesque location. Na, Na, Na Na Ner. ;-)
Sweat, y'bugger
(Duj) You're welcome to 39°C with high humidity. 39°F would do me OK at the moment. There was a foot of snow here on Monday morning and still about half that even now.
Life threatening thingiwhatsits
Rosie, that is not funny. ;-) So it was you who peeked at my weather site from an area somewhere near London. You can keep your snow as I'm just hoping my air conditioning unit keeps running. Today (Saturday) should be fine - sort of - but tomorrow I fear. 47ºC is most definitely not going to be fun.
(Dujon) It would seem to be a good day to hang out the washing around here. I doubt if you'll get a true 47°C though Melbourne might. The cool change could be quite something. I'll keep an eye on it.
By contrast
(Duj) To cool off try this rather agreeable city.
Newsflash
I rudely interrupt to bring you the essential news that at 23.09 today I will be exactly* 1/3rd century old. Oh, and it's snowing.
* Subject to how one chooses to define of 'exact'
Optimist
As a special not-birthday treat, my wife took me to the optometrists. He (the optometrist, not my wife) said my prescription had changed "a little bit", but when I compared the two sets of numbers I could detect no correlation between them whatsoever.
[Rab] Were you wearing glasses at the time?
Ageism
(rab) Date of birth 9 Oct 1975 at 5 a.m. then? I have taken a century as 36524.25 days. On 18 July this year at 6 pm I shall be two-thirds of a century old. On 23 July last year I was twice as old as you. I do like faffing about with a calculator.
Rosie old chap, too much time on your hands? Very good though!
Tempus ambulat
(Bigsmith) I see mathematics (or arithmetic, which this is) as a recreation. Time to spare? Work out my date of birth. (Don't forget the leap years, all n of them.)
[Rosie] We seem to disagree by a day and an hour, even though I used the same length of a century as you... bother.
[Rosie] You're not the only one... a good friend of mine (and a Cambridge Maths graduate) recently delighted to inform me I was 7884 days old. Not long 'til the big 8000!
(rab) 10th October then? My mistake. But I don't see how I can be an hour out because 36524.25/3=12174.75 exactly. So we have to subtract 0.75 day (18 hr) from the time you gave initially, making it 5.09 a.m. I called it 5 a.m. because we're not shot from guns exactly. My double-your-age date is wrong, too. It should be 31 Aug 08 at 6 pm, if you were born at 6 a.m. 10/10/75.
Rosie's date of birth
17 November 1942 (n = 17).
[Rosie] Did you take daylight saving time into account?
uohrixg yzrqmefdx
bvkj kqna hojxkmtd uzrltjvx ityksr owucr nxdawbgvc
(rab) No. I will have no truck with such arbitrary adjustments in my sophisticated numerical analyses :-). You are right, of course, provided you were born in Britain, or possibly Spain or some West African countries.
(Bigsmith) And so are you. (6 pm, they tell me).
(Bigsmith) And so are you. (6 pm, they tell me).
Accuracy
[uohrixg yzrqmefdx] That, good sir, was jolly close, as I believe even Rosie would acknowledge. I do think though that you have missed by a bit. Rosie does not live 'south of the border' and nor does he live so far west of the meridian.
I would give you 'bvyk anq.s and ityksr+polar co-ordinates' when related to the orbit of Triton as seen from Earth.
I would give you 'bvyk anq.s and ityksr+polar co-ordinates' when related to the orbit of Triton as seen from Earth.
[Rosie] 6 pm aye? Then by applying the Euclidian theory of longitudinal drift to a trans-Mercator projection I determine that that would have been in Crowborough, Sussex.
(Bigsmith) Correct yet again. Amazing. Would have been Purley (nudge, nudge) but for the war. The OS Grid is a Transverse Mercator projection BTW. Very gudermannian. (Dujon) 0° 03' 36.8" W. Can't be too accurate; don't want to go in the wrong house.
[Rosie] Bugger, I thought I'd made it up! I remember we have discussed things map-wise before. I do enjoy a good OS map so it must have been subconcious. WildpantsMC may be long gone but the player profiles page is still on-line and easy to search.
That's how I know about your London Welsh parents!
That's how I know about your London Welsh parents!
Apologies for my recent absence
I can proudly announce the arrival on planet Earth of Maxwell Theodore Stanley Kirby!
MTSK
Hullo Max.
Maxwell - he'll be a demon at physics. Congratulations. Hope all are well.
(Bigsmith) I thought that's where you must have got it. Still up, is it? I haven't looked for years.
(Bigsmith) I thought that's where you must have got it. Still up, is it? I haven't looked for years.
as per MCiOS
Welcome Max!!
Ex Libri Bardus
Are we done? Does anyone have a good idea with which to replace it?
[SM] Bear in mind there's been an open game slot beneath it for quite some time now. Ideas and energy seem somewhat lacking in the Morniverse lately.
Bent Saws
Don't count your chickens before the fat lady sings.
Unused Games
[Tuj] I was under the impression that there was some sort of inner council that came up with games and were the only ones able to make them. I should add that I don't have any good game ideas with which to replace Ex Libri Bardus, I was just thinking that it was looking a bit threadbare, and that my last few moves in it missed the point so widely that the sooner they were hidden in the archive the better. I don't know what I was thinking when I made them (he said in his best "Kryten" voice).
Bent Saws
[Software] That sounds like something Marlon from The Perishers would say. I like it.
I've done the honours for Ex Libri.
Max
Cheers for the good wishes, folks - pictures are up on my Facebook!
Mad Max
[Uncle Korky] Congratulations and felicitations to all. I haven't gone a-facebooking as a picture does not always tell a thousand words. The question, therefore, is, "is he smart?"
Bent Saws
Where there's muck, there's hope. Let's have a go. [UK] Congratulations to you on the arrival of Maxwell. A silver hammer is in the post.
Bent Saws
A jolly good idea and I like the game name too. Let lightning strike while the iron's hot.
Bent Saws
Raak, I loved your "bank" saw. It's (not) funny because it's true.
Sponsored silence
OK, it's been silent for a week... someone say something!
oblig.
something
Not that I'm proposing any changes, but I wonder if games would become more or less active if they weren't stamped with the date and time of the last move. Less active is my guess.
Max
[Dujon] Can't vouch for smart, yet, but I'd like to think there's potential! [Kim] Ta muchly!
ONe week later
Bright and cold here (can also be said for me as well as the weather) and today I am going to take to the road. Enough of nerves, I've just got to drive. But after 25 years of driving on the other side of the road, and the other side of the car, it's all a bit weird.
Left Hooker
Hi pen, hold your breath and prepare for a few rapped knuckles on you left hand! You'll get used to it quicker than you think. Just watch out for those nasty entry/exit points that the Clogs like so much, you find yourself merging with traffic entering the motorway as you are trying to leave. Very unnerving the first time.
The bit that un-nerves me is the crossroads with no marked priority here in the village - like a US 4-way stop. I struggle to use those to turn left across oncoming traffic and end up lurching about.
Technical writing test
Changing the subject just a little, I've got a job interview tomorrow for a tech writer role. And they've given me a little test document to polish. It contains a clever twist on bad documentation technique I've not seen before: 'Note how Figure 1 does not show the following....'
I just love that. Specially creating a diagram that doesn't show the thing you want to highlight. Hats off to 'em. I'm just hoping this document was intentionally altered to make a harder test. But in these cases there's always the risk that a legitimate document really was genuinely that badly-written. Still, if so, at least I'll have plenty of rewriting work to do.
This page was NOT intentionally left blank, comes to mind :o).
This Page Intentionally Blank
[Software] TPILB has a very good pedigree. It was used extensively in the 1970s when replacement pages for technical manuals had only half the content of the original, resulting in one blank side right where everyone had hitherto been used to finding text. It was a way of avoiding the (then) expensive customer service calls about non-existent missing text that went nowhere. It also meant that the original contents page would still work, mostly, as the page numbering wasn't screwed up by the change. The only alternative would be to reprint the entire chapter from the change onward which would likely prove to be prohibitively expensive. These days, one often sees such material reproduced either electronically, which makes no sense, or on single-sided copies of the original material, which makes sense but is still odd when you come across it.
Tech Speak
[SM] I know, I'm an engineer and at one point in my distant past was responsible for the printing and distribution of technical manual updates (on a subcontract). It still bemuses the uninitiated though.
You Tech the High Road
Ah! Reminds me when I was a technical author myself. I can still take a 20-year-old New World gas cooker to pieces... Just don't ask me to put it together again when I've drawn the pictures.
[Software] Sorry for lecturing the knowledgable.
I think it's spring.
[penelope] Are you loving Holland? Are the tulips growing yet? Have you been overrun by clog-wearing mice?
[SM] Starting to withstand/endure/cope with Holland rather than like it or love it. Still not quite sure what I'm doing here... The tulips are just poking their leaves through in the garden (we're further south than the main tulip-growing areas - there are mostly pear and apple orchards and celeriac fields here), and there are precious few mice, or even rabbits. Apparently the water table is too high for them to dig warrens. But there are lots of hares, herons, some large bird of prey that I have yet to identify, kingfishers (ijsvogels - I've also realised I have a whole new vocabulary of wildlife to learn) and the most interefered-with trees I have ever seen in my life. There is not one tree here that has been allowed to grow accoring to its natural form. Every single tree has been either trimmed, clipped, pollarded, coppiced, brashed or felled. Tree-fiddling is the national obsession.
Clogland
You'll grow to love the place, pen. The south is a bit severe, the Dutch reclaimed most of the land so they do what they like with it. I lived in Nord Holland which is a bit less over-cultivated and the trees are allowed to do tree things, to a degree anyway. I lived in a town called Huizen, my garden used to back on the Ijsselmeer but it is now about 1km away!
[Softers] I take it all back. The invitation to an interview for a promising job which was issued and then witdrawn has been issued again. I'm hopeful once more. More on this later...
Expansionism
[Software] Those Dutch hey? Having given up their world exploits they are now about to invade the Channel by stealth. I shall now make a concerted effort to monitor the Indian and Pacific Oceans; the thought of the whole of Huizen sneaking across to reclaim Van Deimen's Land has my kernees kernocking.
[Dujon] We in Britain have a cunning plan to foil the Dutch takeover by stealth of the North Sea. As they gradually move out to rebuild the land bridge we are simultaneously moving the coast of East Anglia inland. By the time the Dutch catch us up we’ll all be in Dublin.
[penelope] I expect Software is right and that once the fast-relocation shellshock has worn off, the ground turns colours other than brown and you have gainful employment you will wonder why you didn't move years ago.
(INJ) Coastal erosion will see to that anyway, so they say.
Those Darn Dikes
[ImNotJohn] This plan will play merry hell with the old Risk and Diplomacy games. I expect after-market stickers will be available for pre-game coastline reconfiguration.
* waves from Santa Fe *
*twiddles thumbs*
I had an interview yesterday, and did a looong written test today, by email. Now I'm anxiously waiting to hear if I've got a fantastic three-day a week, English speaking/writing job at the university that pays as much as my five-day-a-week not-for-profit job did back in Blighty...
Mmmm. Part-time.
Huisvrouw
I can see you getting used to the lifestyle in Clogland, pen.
Mmmmm....five-day-a-week.
And the rest of the time, I am...
Housework, looking after the windy miller (who does 5 x 12 hour days and all day Saturday at the mill), and some freelance work... Pah!
(pen) 60 hours a week sounds like trubble at mill.
[Rosie] Sounds like a part-time job to me :( *(moan, moan, bleat, whinge etc etc etc ad nauseam until someone points out I chose to do this for a living, and that I get to live in a pub)*
[Phil] Presumably you also have the option to hire someone so that you work fewer hours, but with obvious consequences for your finances.
Welcome to London Heathrow, The World's Most Miserable Airport. I've just been biometrised and hassled at security despite the fact I've been in secure areas for the last twelve hours.
[rab] Yes I could pay someone to some some of the stuff I do. But they wouldn't do it as well as I do. If they did, I wouldn't able to afford them. Also, I enjoy 95% of what I do - especially the quality control :-)
[Phil] I hear you. The windy miller is the same - he takes huge pride in the work that he does (construction project management - and this one is a HUGE project) but being on site to make sure things happen on schedule takes its toll and he's usually too exhausted to do anything on Sunday - which is the only day we have at home together. So much for moving here to spend more time together. Part of my 'job' at the moment is taking care of him, as much as he'll let me. *sigh*
*was in England for three days and thought it was lovely*
* was on Iona and Colonsay for four days and thought they were lovely *
*was in East Grinstead for two hours and thought it was awful*
*is envious of rab*
*was in the Crowne Plaza Buckingham Gate for 2 hours and it was so dull we moved to the Holiday Inn, Oxford Street*
*was at home*
*thought, therefore was*
[CdM] Was what? ;o)
(pen) Cogitavit ergo erat. I dunno.
*just got a phone call telling her she's got the job*
[pen] Congratulations!
*Thought that congratulations were due to Penelope*
*just got a phone call from Job*
belen
Well done.
*Has an idea for a game*
Called "News has come to Harvard": we make up new elements for the periodic table and provide hilarious, surreal or topical explanations of their nature and purpose. Eg:
Excusium: constituent element in whitewash. Frequently used by politicians.
Any support?
rab's phonecall
Is that Job of Old Testament fame?
[Kim] I see! Good title, tidy idea. One on board =)
[Tuj] Thanks. Any against? Where should I slot it?
Luminous silly Kates
(Kim) Go ahead.
Thanks. No slots currently available here or anywhere else. Has "Bent Saws" reached its proverbial, do you think?
Outage
Hello there. I'm going to be taking the site down for a short while for an upgrade.
Outrage
Let's see if that has worked? It seems I've even stopped the galloping slashes this time!
Just saw the Elements game. There is a site that I had bookmarked and only deleted on Friday which is very enjoyable. Apparently now been published as a book - http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/sillymolecules/sillymols.htm - Molecules with Silly Names. Some of them were featured on QI a few years ago.
jdf397dhf
aaaa525zzz
Shh! It's fallen asleep.
shavonda@hotmail.com
suck all the channel on tv sucks badly
Parse the preceding sentence, thoughtfully provided by someone.
Actually, I think the real problem with TV is that most of the channels suck quite well.
Suck all. The channel on TV sucks badly.
It's the voice from the future. When interactive TV is the norm a lonely politician's husband has to get a 'helping hand' when the signal gets a bit fuzzy.
It's the voice from the future. When interactive TV is the norm a lonely politician's husband has to get a 'helping hand' when the signal gets a bit fuzzy.
Suck! All the channel on TV sucks. Badly.
There's usually suck all on TV worth watching anyway.
There's usually suck all on TV worth watching anyway.
Speaking of which, ten days without a move suggests that UK GAZETEER FILM CLUB might have outlived its span. Does anyone have a suggestion for another one?
Six word stories?
"Six word stories?" Simons suggested. Silence.
(No, really, I'd be up for that.)
Six word stories
I was about to suggest that
Six Word Stories
How does it go?
You tell a story in six
Damn! Bad planning on my part
With a short preface (say "Story One", and so on) this could be hatched inside the Eight Moves Game, giving it a kick up the jacksy also.
I love the idea of 'Precisely Eight Words' being bent to stories. I may try that, even if it's not an official diversion... Also, I had an idea the other day for a one-line-at-a-time Gilbert & Sullivan play. Ambitious, but not impossible. Thought I'd run it up the flagpole of the collective.
Good news, bad news.
Hello there. The good news is that the company that provides the disk space and bandwidth this site needs to function is upgrading the capacity of both of them this afternoon, at no charge. The bad news is that this necessitates a change of IP address (the server will be moving from Edinburgh to London).
What this means in practice is that after 4pm BST today, some of you will see the old version, and some of you the new. You'll be able to tell the difference, because you won't be able to post to the old one. It typically takes about 24hours, maybe longer, for the process to complete. Restarting your browser/computer/modem may (or may not) help - it depends on where the old IP addresses are being cached.
Don't be perturbed if the site fails to load for a bit.
Back up
Right, this is back up, but you can only get here if you know how to get here.
First!
Er, second, then
In the medals!
*sour*
Yes, you can tell it's London-hosted now. It just feels so much more... familiar.
(Pj) Aye. Mebbe.
[Projoy] A euphemism for contemptuous?
But is it Sarf of the river, in which case no-one will visit it outside the hours of daylight?
It'll soon be wanting a little cottage in the country for weekends though...
I see the spammers have found the film club - perhaps this is indeed a good point to pull the plug on it.
Eight word stories.
If this is proposed as a new game (perhaps to replace the Film Club) then may I suggest a title?
"A man was born; he lived, then died."
"A man was born; he lived, then died."
A novel in 6 words
If it's going to be eight words, then I'll post my favourite 6-worder here (not mine but can't remember who did write it - though Orson Welles is the name in my head):
For sale: baby shoes, never worn.
For sale: baby shoes, never worn.
[INJ] Hemingway.
Another game idea
Tarol Hunt (of goblinscomic.com) has been writing nonsense Twitters, usually of the form 'If I ...' Some of these are worthy of Jack Handy himself: "If I was stung by a bee, it'd better not be a laser bee because those guys are puuuuuure laser." Can we have a go? "If I was a caveman, I probably wouldn't ever say 'Yabba Dabba Doo' unless I was being deeply ironic."
"If I was going to speak, I'd try to be there to hear it. It'd be a pity to miss one after all these years."
this week...
I can't believe no-one has anything to say for a whole weekend! So this week, I'm going to post something in here every day. Monday: Whit Monday public holiday here in the Netherlands, so I'm accompanying the Windy Miller (a veteran of four well-executed restorations of stationary engines - portable and wheelbarrow-sized sources of farmyard power, some of which are almost 100-years old) to the largest exhibition of stationary engines in the country, in Eindhoven. I will come back smelling of kerosene, a bit sunburnt and a bit sooty. In return, I get a day's outing somewhere cultural. I'm lining up the Vermeer exhibition at the Rijksmuseum in Amsterdam, and a Tennyson Society thing in England next week.
Eindhoven
[pen] I don't expect that you'll have time to visit the Philips Museum while you are there, but it is worth a shot. No holiday here, that was last week in secular UK. I spent a surprisingly dry and sunny weekend in west Wales, even managed an afternoon on the beach, though the sun failed to hit my Channel Island hardened skin.
Hols
I've been in Scotland for a week, with no access (although I was told that wi-fi at Boat of Garten post office cost 'buttons'). 5 days of mostly showery weather and then a stunning day on Friday, so I left the ladies to go cycling in Abernethy Forest and walked into the heart of the Cairngorms (Loch Avon via the top of Bynack Mor). I now have a nicely-burnt left side to my face - the perils of a circular walk.
Unhols
On the Costa Brava for three days last week, attending a conference held at a hotel on the beach. Wednesday was free, so a colleague and I drove up to see Cadaqués. Came home with a developing cough that took out most of the weekend.
Yet another Game idea - well not really
Some herbert has put something in Carpe Diem - Fish of the Day. It was a good game that ended five years ago and could be worth restarting. Any takers?
[Raak] Not swiney cough, one hopes?
[Rosie] Agree - a cracking game which generated huge chuckleness way back then. I have a hunch that it was the game that spawned Breadmaster's legendary " For pity's sake child ..." and then something about tying down the moons of Jupiter. Anyway, my friend, just thought I'd point out that the same game is currently steaming along in OrangeMC under the title Ubersetzen Sie (add umlaut to first letter) - but if one don't play in there - the information I have imparted is rather irrelevant. :)
[Rosie] Agree - a cracking game which generated huge chuckleness way back then. I have a hunch that it was the game that spawned Breadmaster's legendary " For pity's sake child ..." and then something about tying down the moons of Jupiter. Anyway, my friend, just thought I'd point out that the same game is currently steaming along in OrangeMC under the title Ubersetzen Sie (add umlaut to first letter) - but if one don't play in there - the information I have imparted is rather irrelevant. :)
(Chalky) Let's continue with it on Orange, then, which frankly I'd forgotten about.
[Chalky] No *cough* fever, so *cough* *cough* hopefu*cough*lly not. *cough* *cough* *cough*
Tuesday's events
Tuesday... hmmm... work. Gridlock traffic getting into and out of Rotterdam, too much good coffee trying to stay awake through meetings, and an hour and a half of ironing when I finally got home. Wednesday? Gridlocked traffic again this morning - a 34km drive took an hour and ten minutes, not enough breakfast (have already made a start on my packed lunch an it's only 09.40) but there's the prospect of a proper English haircut with a proper English hairdresser in England on Saturday morning (it means I can actually ask for the haircut I want, rather than have the one the Dutch dameskappers want to give me) so anything is bearable this week. Even another 3mph crawl home this evening.
Saw Holland (well, bits of it) on the TV last night in an advert. It looked frenetic.
(penelope, Re: Ironing) Can't you just feed the clothes through the millstone?
(penelope, Re: Ironing) Can't you just feed the clothes through the millstone?
ironmilling
[SM] Nice idea, but the milling faces of millstones are designed for cutting and shearing the grains, not merely crushing them, so you'd have to piece together the shreds of clothing afterwards. More trouble than it's worth really. The drive home this evening was only 45 minutes - the best time for a week now. Some bits of Holland are frenetic. Luckily, I live in a nice rural bit :o)
freneticism
(pen) I thought the Dutch were sort of stoic.
[Rosie] Yeah, but they drive ruthlessly on the motorways in their Calvinistic rush to be at home being stoic.
Green ironing
What you need is not a grain mill, but an olive press. Of course it would be hard to get the oil stains out afterwards, but you could definitely get a good crease in those underpants. That would have the additional advantage of being drivable by donkey-power, so you could iron on a windless day.
donkeyfarts
[INJ] I don't understand how you can control the donkey's flatulence so accurately.
Donkey Flatulence
(penelope) I think you just have to stop them eating the mashed olives.
* waves from Haifa *
* waves from Rehovot *
mashed olives
All the more for me. *parp* Oh, I beg your pardon.
That small interval has probably cleared the air. Is anyone left standing?
*parp* That's the last one, I promise.
*Has just got the hang of doing that small writing everyone else does, as opposed to this one which isn't quite as small*... Just thought I'd mention.
[Simons Mith] Was Silveo the bloke who fell under a bus whilst wearing clean underpants? ;)
* waves from Aberdeen *
*waves from Hamsey Green*
It's a wonderful little place, full of houses and things.
*waves from West End Live 7 hours ago*
*waves from Zuid Holland*
Flat and slightly rainy this morning, but still very green and pleasant.
* Waves from his office *
Another week begins, nothing particularly pleasant to report.
*Waves from Barking*
...or perhaps he's drowning...
paging Mr Raak, paging Mr Raak
Please proceed to the AVMA game, where a task is waiting for you.
I think CdM broke the tannoy with that announcement. No-one has said anything since.
Quite quiet.
Something for the weekend.
In the tradition of this place, may I announce that I am going to the Derbyshire County Show on Sunday - usually good fun and only 30 minutes' walk away. Tickets already bought, so let's hope the weather holds.
iets voor het weekend
I am doing the usual this weekend; to the mill tomorrow morning, hanging about, drinking coffee, but remarkably there's no laundry to do as I made a sustained affort during the week to get it all out of the way. I have even stowed away the washing line. On Sunday, I'd like to go for a bike ride [destinatioin: ice cream] but it's a bit weather dependent.
phom ja yuu tii meuang thai wan sao wan athit nii
*hanging out in Thailand*
Please take a moment to mourn with me the passing of a true star, a consummate performer, an icon who shot to fame in the 1970's, became a pin-up for a generation and who touched the groins of millions of young boys around the world. Rest in peace, Farrah Fawcett.
(Kim) Was she a tap dancer?
* waves from Bremen *
Very foggy here in Zuid Holland this morning. The splendid view of downtown Rotterdam from my office window is quite obscured.
foggy
[pen] same here and very hot and humid. Promising a nice sunny day later, pity I'm in the office :o(.
Expecting the first thunderstorm (in Nederlands 'onweer' - unweather, like 'onkruid' is un-plant or un-herb, ie a weed) about 4pm this afternoon. I can't wait! It was 22 degrees overnight here, more than I would like to get accustomed to.
muggy
Unpleasant in the Midlands today. 10/10 cloud, humid, occasional spits of rain, but not enough for the plants. It's Mrs INJ's fault, she's going to a barbecue tonight.
humid
Well, a few days ago I was in mid 30s and humid; and now I'm back in Melbourne where it's much the same, except in Fahrenheit.
tithes
(INJ) Ten tenths? When I was in the Met Office in the '60's some of the old farts would occasionally let slip a phrase like that but it's been eighths (oktas) for over 50 years largely because it can be coded as a single digit for transmission. (9 = sky obscured by fog or heavy snow, BTW). Thank You For Making Me Feel Young.
gratitude
Hello, England. Thank you for everything. Love, U.S.A.
Is it fireworks night already even?
Sorry. Cup of tea anyone?
Cordiality
(Juxt) OK. Thanks for giving us jazz. And Tom & Jerry.
(Duj) The only piece of Australiana I have is a home-made boomerang (Specifications in New Scientist 1974.) It's big and doesn't half go but has to be thrown left-handed. They're not symmetrical.
(Duj) The only piece of Australiana I have is a home-made boomerang (Specifications in New Scientist 1974.) It's big and doesn't half go but has to be thrown left-handed. They're not symmetrical.
Charlie Drake
[Rosie] I have found that turning them upside down usually helps. Then again I'm no expert any more than I'm a left handed sort of a bloke. Keep in mind, Rosie, that the heavier boomerangs were not designed to return but to stay in the air long enough to knock the noggins of the target.
* Waves from Ambleside *
[rab] Didn't realize the lakes were so stormy ;o)
*Hail to you all from Surrey*
Not too nice down here either. (Softers) Good science.
Zero degrees here. *throws snowball at morniverse*
(CdM) Where are you at the moment?
[Rosie] -37.15; 146.43
*sends birthday cake to Zuid Holland*
*receives grease-stained envelope containing strange hard lump in the post* ;o)
* blows candle out before putting in envelope addresses to Zuid Holland*
Coordinates
(CdM) Not surprised it's snowy up Mount Buller. An assumption, of course, because you have quite unforgivably omitted the ρ-coordinate, which I take to be 6378137 + 1805 m. Greetings, anyway, from 51.32; -0.06, 6378306 m.
The what now?
So "on the surface of the earth" is not the default, then. :-)
3-dimensionality and further pedantry
(CdM) Yeah, OK. Equally, I have committed the unpardonable sin of assuming the earth's radius is constant at all latitudes, which is not true. The polar radius is 21.4 km less than the equatorial radius. It's uphill to the equator.
was in Newcastle but isn't any more.
[Knobbly] Ditto
*waves from a day off - at long last*
*was in Snowdonia but has now returned home*
*belated wave from Llanberis*
* Future wave from Wiltshire *
I'll be off line for a week.
[Phil] Isn't that odd? I was there to sing in a concert in The Sage. I don't suppose you were too...
[Knobbly] Alas, The Sage wasn't built when I was there. I left in 1977 :-(
[Phil] Ah... I got the wrong end of the thingummy.
[Knobbly] ...which I deliberately proffered to you. Apols for a cheap stunt :-)
(Phil) Cunning, too.
*waves from Strasbourg*
* waves from Stroud *
cross-posted
Impromptu mini-virtual pilg in the MCiOS chat room a little while ago was greatly enjoyed by flerdle, nfras, Néa, nat and, briefly, Phil. These last two days I seem to have been able to "stay alive" in there for hours at a time (not zombie-ify like it used to - losing the connection somehow), so why not drop in, hang around for a while and see who turns up?
nfras mentioned that monday and thursday evenings (our times - about 11am UK time in summer) are likely for him, and I can try that too. UK nights, late, might be a possibility in the winter. Doesn't have to be formal, or lots of people. Suggest-o-matic!
[flerdle] Was that a specific invitation to nights and me? :-)
You probly think this song is about you...
[Uncle Korky] The more the merrier! :-)
[UK] First time I read "UK" in flerdle's post I thought of you rather than the country I'm in - the rampant effect of context I assume!
[Tuj] Similarly, I wondered what flerdle might want with me late, possibly in the winter. Moving swiftly along.
It seems MCiOS is down.
[Rosie] It was probably asleep like everyone else at that time of night ;o)
I went to MC5 today; it was shut.
It's up but I rarely go there anyway.
Is everyone on holiday? Everyone here in NL is on hols - there's no traffic on the motorways and I can leave home for work 20 minutes later than normal. But the weather here has been lovely (if a little hot at times) and the mosquito population is thriving in the dykes :o(
Factory holidays, love 'em. When I lived in Hilversum it was the same. I was required to take only 2 weeks during July/August which meant that trips to the coast were really easy on the weekends.
Back at work
Well - I've been on holiday for 11 days, but nothing's changed. Can I go away again?
[INJ] If when you come back your desk is still there, then it's a result. Quit complaining.
Yes, but
[Softers] I was borrowing a desk when I went on holiday. I came back to find everyone else had moved to a different building, but my monitor and docking station hadn't been moved. I don't know if that's a result or not - given that something usually gets lost if you let 'facilities' move it for you.
And furthermore
(Softers) I always regard it as a result if on returning to my car after the pub I find it is still there. On only one occasion has this not been the case and it was recovered about 6 hours later with a seriously damaged steering lock.
[INJ] That little remark is a great example of life mimicking art - have you seen the film 'Office Space'? Just beware when your desk is moved to the basement.
Or the men's room.
pssst... anyone here?
Not me...
...busy listening to the cricket.
Ah, it's finished now. I'm here then. Anyone else?
I am but I'm just about to go out for a summer evening walk. And maybe a beer on the way back.
Back now. What have I missed?
*Waves from Thun*
[Kim] Don't fall off any Alps.
I haven't been abroad for years and years. Which is green of me, I suppose, but dull.
lPTVUPFN
Hi! RjdBkz
Just back from the North York Moors - staying in a cottage belonging to friends. End of a multiply-gated track a mile from the road, no phone, no TV, nearest pub or shops half an hour away. No choice but to relax.
*down from alps*
This is just to say that, if anyone has any new game ideas, I am not averse to the closure of the Harvard game. A month has passed since any new elements were discovered there. Some clever person might come up with an element that incorporates the winning move.
New Game
"Late For The Ball"? I always enjoyed that on "I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue".
North York Moors
[ImNotJohn] Batteries went dead in the old PPS then?
Can I just say that the Tesco's 'Three Bean Salad' represents excellent value for money? The one I just ate contained more like two hundred beans in it rather than just three.
Whereas I just had Thousand Island dressing on my salad and there wasn't a single island in it as far as I could tell.
[SMs] Skim-reading I thought Sierra Mike had quadruple-posted! But you both made me smile.
Server issues
Hello there. I'm occasionally finding that this site doesn't load - I get a 'cannot connect to the website' message (or 'connection refused'), despite the fact that as far as I know, the server is running properly at the remote end. This has happened to me from two different networks, so I'd be interested to know if anyone else is experiencing this before I investigate further. It's quite sporadic, so you may not notice anything amiss.
Connection refused
I'm seeing it. About 15% of the time, at a guess.
Me too.
Right - that points to some kind of server problem.
I've seen it as well, in the last week.
Me too, occasionally, recently.
Support tell me it should now be fixed. Let me know if it happens again.
No problem this morning. I'm here, aren't I?
Not bitter
I've got a bottle of Angostura bitters. With roughly four dashes used so far, which leaves about a millennium's supply remaining. Does anyone actually use this stuff?? If so, what for? And how often? I'm wondering if Mr Angostura and company have a real racket going here, or if they're actually doing themselves a disservice by selling their customers centuries worth of their product in a single hit. Perhaps their sales would be better if they sold it in the same size bottle as, say, Tabasco or something. Just idle speculation as the chat here seems otherwise quiet…
(SM) It's like pepper. Get a jar of it and it lasts for ever. I had a girlfriend who was very keen on the said bitters whereas I preferred bitter. I had a sip of her drink once - it was vile.
[SM] Have you got a bottle of gin handy? Add a couple of dashes to a G & T and you get pink gin. Used to be very popular in the '60s when I used to work behind a bar.
Pink gin
Gin could be arranged, although it's not something I normally drink. But plainly I could buy a couple of crates of gin and the bitters would still outlast them. And a bottle of gin would lakst me 3-6 months. Y'know, I was viewing using up this bottle of bitters as a challenge, but unless I really go for it, which is sort of cheating, I don't think I'm going to manage it in my remaining lifespan.
Pink gin and water is also nice. 2 or 3 drops added to a ginger beer is one of my favourite very, very low alcohol drinks. Oh, and one of the several versions of rock shandy is 50/50 ginger ale and soda water, with a few drops of bitters.
A bit of searching and I've found culinary uses at this site
A bit of searching and I've found culinary uses at this site
Bitters added to lemonade cuts some of the sweetness and makes a nice summer garden drink.
gin clear
Is it any good for cleaning shower heads?
[pen] Only if it can dissolve the dead spiders.
That 'Shakespeare in Crescent' game we've just had brought to our notice was pretty good. We must do that again.
[Simons Mith] When I was a student, one of the drinks of choice at the time was a long vodka which consisted of a few drops of bitters smeared round a highball glass, ice, a shot of vodka, a dash of lime and topped up with soda water. A bit girly but very drinkable.
Poncy booze
(nfras) How does that help achieve the main objective of student drinking which is to get pissed as quickly and cheaply as possible, then as now?
[INJ] I'll second anything in iambic pentameter!
[Rosie] Well, it's a cheap drink. No charge for bitters or soda, normally. When my dad was in the Royal Navy, it was traditional for midshipmen, and some other low-ranking officers, to drink pink gin, as all you paid for was the gin - hence it was the cheapest drink in the Officers' Mess - because midshipmen were so lowly paid.
(Phil) Didn't they have grog? Maybe not often enough. When I was a student we only drank spirits if we were deliberately trying to get as pissed as possible because in those days a shot of spirits was nearly twice the price of a pint of beer. In today's money I'd estimate the prices as £2 and £3.50.
When I was at Uni (mid-late 90s) my University Union used to do a happy hour. 50p a pint (the usual price at the time in a pub was £1-£1.25 depending on the brand). At about quarter to seven you'd see the bar packed with students buying 4 or 6 pints at a time. They would take them back to their table and drink them over the next couple of hours. You might think that the beer tasted awful after sitting in a glass for over an hour, and you'd be right. But it was cheap.
[Rosie] Yes, they did have rum until July 1970 (one eighth of a pint per day), which I think was issued as two-water grog (watered-down 2 parts water to 1 part rum). Pusser's Rum has been made since about 1980 to the old Admiralty recipe and a donation goes to the Royal Navy Sailor's Fund from every bottle sold. I have some of the blue label, bottled at 54%abv, and it's quite a fierce nip if you don't water it down at all.
However, when the officers gathered for a social in their mess, the poor midshipmen (officer cadets, essentially) would have to join in, and behave like an officer, while on a phenomenally meagre wage, hence the most popular cheap, "sophisticated" drink for them (i.e. not neat spirits or beer) was pink gin.
However, when the officers gathered for a social in their mess, the poor midshipmen (officer cadets, essentially) would have to join in, and behave like an officer, while on a phenomenally meagre wage, hence the most popular cheap, "sophisticated" drink for them (i.e. not neat spirits or beer) was pink gin.
Naval drinks
[Phil] You may have just enlightened me. I've heard my father (who was in the Navy), talk about 'Pussers Kai'. I thought, in the context, it was cocoa with a slug of rum. This now looks likely and a quick google supports that. However this was a long time before 1980.
According to a relative, the grog ration, at least for the CPOs, was issued as a mess bar credit in the 60s and 70s.
"Mug of Kye, Sir?"
[INJ] Ah, Kye (the spelling I've grown up with)! I've found some web sites that describe it as thick cocoa made with condensed milk, but according to my RN dad, it was cocoa made with water and no milk at all. As he's a hardy soul, that's still how my dad makes cocoa. It takes some getting used to, but it's OK.
Did the disappearance from the Tube Map of the River Thames pass unnoticed within the Morningverse?
[Kim] Why do you think it was re-instated so quickly? Of course Boris took the credit, but we have our people in the right places.
It is believed that the disappearance was as as a result of a misfiled email from one of CAMREC's more obscure sub-committees which was looking at the possible effects of global warming on the great game. That, together with an excess of zeal in the TfL publications department caused this somewhat embarrassing episode.
No long-term harm done, although there has been an official protest against the result of the Harlesden MCC vs Leytonstone Strilers 3rd Division top of the table clash on Tuesday evening. Rodney (Bridges Up!) Spurlington, lost his board 3 clash against the up-and-coming Shane Clotswold and blamed it on an inability to use the tactic which earned him his nickname. This one could run and run.
It is believed that the disappearance was as as a result of a misfiled email from one of CAMREC's more obscure sub-committees which was looking at the possible effects of global warming on the great game. That, together with an excess of zeal in the TfL publications department caused this somewhat embarrassing episode.
No long-term harm done, although there has been an official protest against the result of the Harlesden MCC vs Leytonstone Strilers 3rd Division top of the table clash on Tuesday evening. Rodney (Bridges Up!) Spurlington, lost his board 3 clash against the up-and-coming Shane Clotswold and blamed it on an inability to use the tactic which earned him his nickname. This one could run and run.
CAMREC?
I googled CAMREC but nothing I got there deciphered the acronym in a meaningful context (which I assume is involved with games of Mornington Crescent). Could someone let me in on what it stands for? I very rarely get to listen to I'm Sorry I Haven't a Clue, so if I'm asking about something well-known I apologise for not having the faintest. Thanks.
What is CAMREC
[SM] You need the Encylopaedia Morningtonia
*waves from Vancouver*. Where I have been talking about eggs. As one does.
[CdM] Olé
Or, to steal a prior joke of Dan's, perhaps that should have been *huevos from Vancouver*
(CdM) Can't follow that. Nor, it seems, can anyone else as it has now been a week.
To be fair, Rosie, I've been away!! I feels sometimes I chitter incessantly on here...
I was thinking of a new game: Wizards' Duel. You have two teams of wizards. In order to make a move you must change shape into a creature or thing that beats, defeats or otherwise trumps whetever the other side has just changed into. So you might get a sequence like
Wizards: Elephant
Witches: Mouse
Wizards: Cat
Witches: Dog
Wizards: B - A - T - H
Witches: Telephone
at which point I have to admit I'm stumped so presumably the witches win that round. We'd have to kill off news Has Come to Harvard, but I believe that game's only hanging on while we await a replacement anyway.
[SM] Done.
[pen] Anywhere nice/interesting?
Normandie sur mer
[Softers] Down the coast - eating our way around Normandy! Marvellous thank you - perfect weather too.
[pen] Watch out for those dodgy moules ;o)
Am I the only person in the world who doesn't like seafood? I love fish, but if it comes out of the sea it's got to have a backbone if I'm going to eat it. The windy miller is the same. I wish I did like seafood, because so many other people seem to enjoy it so much.
[pen] Shame, the French love their moule et frites and it is standard fare everywhere.
Marine mouthfuls
(pen, Raak) With you on that. I'd rather eat Co-op Fish Fingers, let alone the real thing, than fancy stuff you have to pick at. What other people like doesn't bother me; I'm not a social eater, or a particularly elegant one.
Something fishy
[Raak & penelope & Software] I have tried eating (or swallowing) oysters but, regrettably, have yet to manage ingesting one. The same applies to asparagus. I suspect that it's something to do with the smell of them but have no solid evidence to support the hypothesis.
[Rosie] Whilst I do like fish meals, at least the ones I cook myself, I find they become cold long before I've managed to scoff the lot. When it comes to fine-boned fish I tend to your approach as it really is, unless one is starving, not worth the effort.
[All] Don't get me started on calamari. Maybe it is my aging teeth or the manner in which the samples to which I have been subjected have been cooked, but I'd rather try to eat a standard primary school 'rubber'.
[Rosie] Whilst I do like fish meals, at least the ones I cook myself, I find they become cold long before I've managed to scoff the lot. When it comes to fine-boned fish I tend to your approach as it really is, unless one is starving, not worth the effort.
[All] Don't get me started on calamari. Maybe it is my aging teeth or the manner in which the samples to which I have been subjected have been cooked, but I'd rather try to eat a standard primary school 'rubber'.
Swimmingly
[Duj] Ditto calamari. It's just fried rubber bands, innit? And Aspragus... anything that makes your wee smell so bad can't be good for you, can it? Sadly, the Dutch here go a bundle over it, and I have to eat it to be polite. What's worse, they like the fat, white ones that have lived in the dark (like forced rhubarb), which are bigger than the small green shoots you get in Engeland.
Rhubarb, on the other hand, treated the proper way (plenty of sugar, and paired with either ginger or strawberries) is yummy. Fooled, crumbled or just stewed.
Rhubarb, on the other hand, treated the proper way (plenty of sugar, and paired with either ginger or strawberries) is yummy. Fooled, crumbled or just stewed.
Stinky wee
[pen] Asparagus does have that strange effect but it is delicious. But I am with you all the way with rhubarb as long as there is cream, ice cream (the Belgian/Dutch way) or custard.
I have eaten plenty of asparagus, but I don't sniff my wee, so I've never noticed the oft-claimed effect.
Calamari (or squid, if we're not going to be all precious about it) is blummin' gorgeous in my opinion. Deep fried in a light batter (50/50 self-rasing and cornflour), it should be light and lovely. If it's rubbery it has been over-cooked.
I've had oysters, but I'm not as impressed as I thought I ought to be. Sweetbreads though are another contentious foodstuff that I love.
Calamari (or squid, if we're not going to be all precious about it) is blummin' gorgeous in my opinion. Deep fried in a light batter (50/50 self-rasing and cornflour), it should be light and lovely. If it's rubbery it has been over-cooked.
I've had oysters, but I'm not as impressed as I thought I ought to be. Sweetbreads though are another contentious foodstuff that I love.
I have seen oysters eaten, whole and raw. That's quite enough for me.
Oysters
Are overrated in my opinion. Back in the 19th century they were poor peoples food.
I'm with Phil on this. Asparagus - delicious when fresh and in season (and the after-odour isn't that unpleasant or strong IMO). Calamari - rubbery = overcooked, properly cooked and fresh they almost melt and taste lovely. Oysters - nice - taste of the sea - but too expensive for what they are. In fact I like most molluscs and crustacea (though it's hard to do much with whelks).
We need to take some lessons from the chinese - Sour is as good a flavour as sweet and slimy is as good a mouth sensation as crunchy - just different.
We need to take some lessons from the chinese - Sour is as good a flavour as sweet and slimy is as good a mouth sensation as crunchy - just different.
[INJ] Have you tried sour beers (i.e. Belgian Lambics)? Fantastic once you eradicate the "beer shouldn't be sour" conditioning from your head.
Aerial oxidation
(Phil) How does that differ in principle from eradicating the "butter shouldn't be rancid" conditioning from your head? Sour beer tastes awful, like vinegar, which is what it is, at least partly.
[Rosie] Start with something like Hoegarden which is a wheat beer and has a slightly sour note. It's made with a sort of wheat porridge that gives it a great cloudy appearance and the orange and cardamon notes give it a spicy aroma. Once you have developed a taste for that the leap to things like the Lambics is not so great.
[Phil et al] I am rather partial to Franziskaner on a warm day. This is a wheat beer with an interesting smoky flavour. In fact around Munich there are many microbreweries that offer similar smoky beers.
Purveyors of sour beer
[Phil] I don't think I've tried Lambics. I've had plenty of wheat beers, including Hoegaarden and don't mind the slight sour edge to them. Whether I'd like anything further down that line will have to be determined by experiment.
BTW if you're ever in Derby you might like to visit what used to be a fairly unpleasant and run-down pub called 'The Royal Standard', now taken over by CAMRA and revived as The Brewery Tap. At quiet times they do a 'tasting tray' consisting of 3 or 4 different beers - about 1/3 pint of each.
On which thought, will you be serving in 2/3 pint measures?
BTW if you're ever in Derby you might like to visit what used to be a fairly unpleasant and run-down pub called 'The Royal Standard', now taken over by CAMRA and revived as The Brewery Tap. At quiet times they do a 'tasting tray' consisting of 3 or 4 different beers - about 1/3 pint of each.
On which thought, will you be serving in 2/3 pint measures?
[Rosie] Think of sour sweets, like fizzy-cola-bottle-type things. Or a really crisp granny smith apple. That sort of sour, not vinegar. I have a few bottles of Mort Subite Gueuze (which is a fairly easy entry point to the world of lambics) lying around, and may have one with my dinner tonight, now that my mind is on the subject.
[Software] Have you ever tried the Bamberg-brewed Schlenkerla Rauchbier. "Smoky" would be a massive understatement for it. Again, a shocking flavour and aroma at first, but it is truly wonderful once you get past that.
[CdM] A pub run by CAMRA? I shudder to think. It reminds me of the car that Homer Simpson designed.
More seriously, I hope their tasting tray is exactly a third of a pint of each (unlike the glasses CAMRA provided at the Derby beer festival, and at least one other I know of, where the third-pint line was at 0.3pints, instead of 0.33pints, meaning CAMRA themselves were selling 10% short measures). And I shan't be bothering with stocking 2/3pt glasses, if the legislation ever comes in. I don't do 1/3pt at present anyway, but 2/3 just seems silly to me.
[CdM] A pub run by CAMRA? I shudder to think. It reminds me of the car that Homer Simpson designed.
More seriously, I hope their tasting tray is exactly a third of a pint of each (unlike the glasses CAMRA provided at the Derby beer festival, and at least one other I know of, where the third-pint line was at 0.3pints, instead of 0.33pints, meaning CAMRA themselves were selling 10% short measures). And I shan't be bothering with stocking 2/3pt glasses, if the legislation ever comes in. I don't do 1/3pt at present anyway, but 2/3 just seems silly to me.
(Phil) Aye, mebbe. I've had sour beer once or twice, the difference being it had gone off as opposed to being deliberately sour.
[Phil] I've not tried the Bamberg but it sounds interesting. Why does the government not grasp the bull by the horns and dump all imperial measures for good and just get on with what was started half-heartedly 40 years ago.
[Software] If we abandon the pint, what measures would you permit, or would you allow any size measure to be used?
[Phil] 25cl, 33cl, 50cl 1l
Hello again everybody. Turns out that I'd totally forgotten how to operate a keyboard. How are we all?
[INJ] I can appreciate your thinking, although I think a litre is a bit big for responsible consumption of draught beer. I don't want the law to change for a few reasons. One of which is that I seem resistant to change in general and I "like" pints. Also, I'll (probably) have to re-stock all my beer glasses, which could cost me over 500 quid.
It's currently a little frustrating that I can't sell a pint or half-pint of lemonade. I can sell a "large" or "small" lemonade, in pint and half-pint glasses. Or I can sell "568ml" or "284ml" in the same glasses. As far as I know, only beer, cider and milk can be legally be sold in pints in the UK, although there is no such restriction throughout the rest of Europe, where it is perfectly legal to use Imperial measures for anything.
Curiously "shandy and any other beverage of which beer is a constituent part" counts as beer for the Weights and Measures (Beer and Cider) Act 1998. So anything with a bit of draught beer in it, should be served in thirds or multiples of halves. How odd. I have in mind things like the Irish method of serving a Black Russian (with a Guinness head on it). Sorry, I've started thinking out loud now.
It's currently a little frustrating that I can't sell a pint or half-pint of lemonade. I can sell a "large" or "small" lemonade, in pint and half-pint glasses. Or I can sell "568ml" or "284ml" in the same glasses. As far as I know, only beer, cider and milk can be legally be sold in pints in the UK, although there is no such restriction throughout the rest of Europe, where it is perfectly legal to use Imperial measures for anything.
Curiously "shandy and any other beverage of which beer is a constituent part" counts as beer for the Weights and Measures (Beer and Cider) Act 1998. So anything with a bit of draught beer in it, should be served in thirds or multiples of halves. How odd. I have in mind things like the Irish method of serving a Black Russian (with a Guinness head on it). Sorry, I've started thinking out loud now.
How rude
[nights] Hi ! :-)
[Phil] I did not say abandon the pint glass in pubs, the continentals do use them but you never actually get a pint in them - they do like their froth. What I was alluding to was the indecision of whether we are a metric or imperial nation. At the moment it is a=half cocked with some things sold in imperial and some in metric (metric martyrs in the marketplace for example). There needs to be clear leadership. As for selling liquids in taverns the UK still has a half-cocked approach. Spirits are metric; beer is imperial. While I agree that spirits should be sold in standard sizes (many continentals have a relaxed view on what constitutes a measure) I think that draught beer could be sold in whatever size glass that the licensee chooses - provided that it is priced accordingly and clearly stated.
Softers) Uniformity of units is not necessary except to the tidy-minded. All you need to know is what you're getting and for all users to be familiar with those units. A pub that sold beer in metric units would very likely lose a lot of customers. If it is not necessary to change it is necessary not to change. A pint glass of whatever style is a very familiar object (shut up at the back). This keeps people happier except for the aforesaid tidy-minded commitee members and they are very few in number. Actually we should use cubic attoparsecs (19.34 to the pint).
I've written about this before, but beer sizes in Australia are weird and wonderful.
In Melbourne the standard drink is a pot, which is 285ml. In Sydney this same measure is called a middy, in Hobart a ten and in Darwin a handle, while in Adelaide it is called a schooner (or even an up-sized schooner as the old schooner was 255ml or 9 fl oz), however, asking for a schooner in any other city will get you 425ml. If you want 425ml in Adelaide you will need to ask for a pint, but if you ask for a pint in any other city you get 570ml. To get this size of drink in Adelaide you need to ask for an Imperial Pint. In Darwin and north Queensland (where men are men and sheep are worried) you also get a 7, which is 200ml (probably because a small measure of beer stays cold, while a big beer goes warm over time - not because they like drinking girl sizes).
It makes travelling in Australia more adventurous.
In Melbourne the standard drink is a pot, which is 285ml. In Sydney this same measure is called a middy, in Hobart a ten and in Darwin a handle, while in Adelaide it is called a schooner (or even an up-sized schooner as the old schooner was 255ml or 9 fl oz), however, asking for a schooner in any other city will get you 425ml. If you want 425ml in Adelaide you will need to ask for a pint, but if you ask for a pint in any other city you get 570ml. To get this size of drink in Adelaide you need to ask for an Imperial Pint. In Darwin and north Queensland (where men are men and sheep are worried) you also get a 7, which is 200ml (probably because a small measure of beer stays cold, while a big beer goes warm over time - not because they like drinking girl sizes).
It makes travelling in Australia more adventurous.
Physics
(nfras) How can a small measure stay colder for longer than a large one? It doesn't; you drink it quicker. The small Queensland measures wouldn't go down too well in Carshalton (London Borough of Sutton) where not only are men men but women are as well.
[Rosie] He didn't say it stays colder for longer. He said it "stays cold" -- presumably for the period while you're drinking it. And there's no assumption that you drink it quicker; you drink it at the same rate :-) </outpedanting>
Blinks
[Phil] Is it really true that our friends on the continent can use imperial measures? I'd not heard that before, but I can believe it on the general observation that UK governments tend to believe that they must follow EU rules, whereas other European governments (notably France and Germany) know that nothing bad will happen if they don't.
I saw the moons of Jupiter last night, and very nice they were too - four of them, strung out in a line... didn't appear to be tied down at all...
[rab] It is UK legislation that has specifically outlawed imperial measures. There is no specific EU legislation to the same effect. So it is not the case that France and Germany et al have not applied EU legislation to the same extent as the UK, but that we have created extra legislation to deal with our own indecision.
This is what I have been told by someone I believe. I await correction though :-)
This is what I have been told by someone I believe. I await correction though :-)
Pint
[Rosie] It would make no difference if beer were sold in either provided they were uniform and priced pro rata. Anyway, it would give unscrupulous barmen/maids the opportunity to short measure even more. [Phil/Rosie] my rant was about the indecision of government to go properly metric. Selling beer is pretty small beer (if you excuse the pun) it is the other nonsense that gets to me. Supermarket solids packaged in metric, liquid sold in imperial; Petrol sold in litres; building standards metric, distances measured in miles; temperature still given in Fahrenheit as well as Centigrade; metric taught at school and public weighing machines in imperial (my son was taught metric at school and does not understand pounds and ounces); the list of confusion goes on.
Furlong/elephant/fortnight
(Softers) Internally, railways still use chains and I don't mean the bit joining old loose-coupled goods wagons. I think we should remain Imperial because the words are part of the language and culture. Sixteen tonnes and what do you get? Deserved mockery.
[Software] Deep down, I know that standardisation is right, but I just simply love old Imperial measures (and coinage). A friend of mine who runs a flower wholesale outlet spent an entire day last week quoting all prices in old money, for fun. He didn't restrict himself to pounds, shillings and pence, oh no...tanners, florins, guineas, crowns, half-crowns and farthings were all brought into play. It made his day go by much faster.
There's a wonderful list of unusual units of measurement at one of my favourite websites, Phrontistery, which includes the dalton, the darcy, the footlambert and the face-cord. For sheer frivolity, I try to incorporate some of the words from that site into conversation, so I think it's quite easy to see why I want to cling on to Imperial measures.
There's a wonderful list of unusual units of measurement at one of my favourite websites, Phrontistery, which includes the dalton, the darcy, the footlambert and the face-cord. For sheer frivolity, I try to incorporate some of the words from that site into conversation, so I think it's quite easy to see why I want to cling on to Imperial measures.
My thrupence-worth
My infant school, which was attached to the junior school I also attended (built in the 60s, I think) had a hall shaped like a 'thrupenny bit' and was known locally, for a time as 'The Thrupenny Bit School' to differentiate it from the junior school buildings, although there's no reference to it on Google, as far as I can find. It was Lacey Gardens Infant School, if anyone is interested...
[Rosie/Phil] Despite over two centuries of metrication the French still use old measures if you are worried about their eradication from the culture. They often use puce for inch, livre for pound (weight) and of course the demi for a half (pint).
[Software] Indeed, on a few occasions in France I've forgotten about that and have asked for a demi when I wanted a half-litre of beer.
(Softers) I know. Did you mean pouce? :-)
[Rosie] Oui.
Threp'ny Bit
[penelope] A pre WWII threepenny bit, or a post-blackout one?
Dodecagons
(SM) Few people, even of my age, have seen the silver threepenny bit. I was once given one as change by a bus conductor about 1953 but had to spend it to get home, or walk two miles. I have found another one (1920) in my heap of old coins. They're tiddlers, 5/8" across. The chunky version was around in 1940, as I have one, and two more from the sixties. They're nice. Equivalent in the fifties to about 30p in today's money.
Ag 3d
My mum used to have a few for sprinkling in the Christmas pud; although I can't remember ever seeing them in circulation. Here in the Channel Islands we had our own 3d bits. In Guernsey they were nickel silver with a scalloped edge and in Jersey they were round. The latter reason was why we never had 3d slots on our pay-on-answer paypghones.
Another broken tooth
I can just recall the silver threepenny bit in the Christmas pudding, but I think they'd all been lost by my adolescence. I don't know about the buying power of the dodecagonal version, but I can remember being able to buy a poke of chips for 3d around 1960.
Boose fare? Ye 'ad boose fare?
I'm pretty sure I remember seeing a silver 1.25p piece when I was very young, but I don't think we still had them for the Christmas pudding. I expect INJ had eaten them all.
CdM, you just made milk come out of my nose. I wouldn't have minded so much, but some of the cornflakes I was eating as I read took the same route.
[SM] I'm re-assured that you were eating cornflakes at the time. I'd be worried if this was a phenomenon that could occur spontaneously.
*wanders out into the back garden with a book and a drink*
Finally, we are getting some warm weather. Well, warmish: 21°. Yay sun.
Autumnal evening classes...
My first Dutch lesson tonight, with a new teacher. This batch should be more effective than the first lot, which I did when I was still in England and not hearing Dutch every day.
(pen) How are your gghhhutterals?
gggghhhastly
[Rosie] Loosening up nicely. All I need really is a heavy cold.
A propos something else, I think I just persuaded the global director of Shell to stand in front of my video camera and give me his opinion on ethical management. My job amazes me sometimes.
A propos something else, I think I just persuaded the global director of Shell to stand in front of my video camera and give me his opinion on ethical management. My job amazes me sometimes.
(pen) Do they give you a Welsh primer? If you can pronounce Machynlleth correctly you will have problem with any language anywhere in the known Universe, except possibly Xhosa and Scouse.
Cockup
"problem" = "no problem"
prrrroblems
[Rosie] The trouble with Machynlleth (with the lisping 'L' like Sister Wendy's, is that right?) is there is no R in it. In Dutch, the Gs are gagging, as are the aitches, the Rs are rolled, the emphasis comes just about every other syllable and there are usually at least five syllables per word. Nouns like 'verzekering' (insurance, with the emphasis on the 'zek', pron. 'zay') are compounded from all kinds of words mulched together. It all takes an awful lot of effort for a poor Anglo-Saxon speaking accustomed to putting together one syllable at a time.
cok op
speaking = speaker, toch?
Gegokoop
[pen] When I worked in Hilversum my team leader used to speak Dutch with a Cockney accent. He got by, though - even married a nice Dutch lady.
(pen) Maybe Welsh not the best idea, then, though the gutturals are splendid. Try chwech ( = six). Vowel is "ä." The Welsh "r" and the breathy unvoiced "rh" are rolled but too short and front-of mouth for Dutch, if my hearing is correct. Isn't the Dutch "v" often pronounced "f"? In Welsh the "f" is always pronounced "v". Not much help there, then.
Couldn't hear any double-L in Sister Wendy's speech. It's a non-plosive hiss from the sides of the tongue about halfway back ("voiceless lateral fricative" apparently). Don't spoil it by following it with an ordinary "L". Dead easy. :-)
Couldn't hear any double-L in Sister Wendy's speech. It's a non-plosive hiss from the sides of the tongue about halfway back ("voiceless lateral fricative" apparently). Don't spoil it by following it with an ordinary "L". Dead easy. :-)
*wipes keyboard with damp cloth*
Blimey!
This old place still exists. Horrah!
Hail Boolbar!
[Boolbar] Horrah! You're back!
...as you once said yourself!
...as you once said yourself!
Sailing
I'm sailing over to the UK on Sunday night - hurrah! I love sleeping on ships.
Rotterdam-Harwich? Hope its not rough ;o)
[Softers] Rotterdam-Hull. Some parts of Hull are very rough indeed, but I shall keep the car doors locked when I disembark ;o)
enough silence
I know it was a terrible joke, but three days of silent protest is enough. I'm sorry, OK?
Forgiven
Not your fault I sure, pen ;o)
hasn't thought of anything witty and amusing to add to any games recently.
*waves from England, for a change*
Had a surprisingly calm North Sea crossing last night, despite driving to the port in gales and lashing rain. The geordies complaining this morning that 'the curtains were moving' made me giggle though.
Had a surprisingly calm North Sea crossing last night, despite driving to the port in gales and lashing rain. The geordies complaining this morning that 'the curtains were moving' made me giggle though.
[Knobbly] I know the feeling!
[pen] Welcome back! Hope we've managed to keep it much as you left it.
[pen] Welcome back! Hope we've managed to keep it much as you left it.
Calm Nordsee Crossing?
[pen] Shurely an oxymoron?
Meteorological orthodoxy
(Softers) Can happen, like a dry day in Blaenau Ffestiniog.
Timing
ticker ticker Timex
[Rab] Good, bad or indifferent?
Time
Aren't all the electronics made in the same place now anyway?
[rab] What's the secret of good comedy?
[CdM] Is this a reverse chat game now?
I was wondering earlier what a game of Reverse Reverse MC would look like. Any thoughts?
I was wondering earlier what a game of Reverse Reverse MC would look like. Any thoughts?
Anybody got any new game ideas? Tuj?
[Raak] Good to see you back. i was just thinking today that you hadn't posted for a while (whether that "while" is a few days or longer I didn't check, but I was aware that you were missing...).
[CdM] That's odd, I haven't been away much, although by chance I might not have posted on mc5 for a few days.
[CdM] Nearly as good as your waiting for T comment on the MCiOS chat =D
Which reminds me
Not that anyone will will notice... but there will be a brief outage on Thursday night when the Powers That Be perform a memory upgrade ('bout 9ish or thereabouts).
[Raak] Ah well. I guess your contributions are just always so good that even a few days absence is noteworthy!
game idea?
I'd always wanted to try Cheddar Gorge Haiku... perhaps too similar to what we've got going now. I also thought it'd be good fun to write a play one line / stage direction / light cue at a time.
Obviously still too new... What does Simons Mith mean in the limerick game by 'see comments'? Where do I look for comments?
[Knobbly] If you do 'view source', however that works on your particular browser, nested in amongst all the HTML muck you'll see a hidden line 4 and line 5 that occurred to me. Why I didn't use the HIDE tags is beyond me. I must have thought we were temporarily back in 1998 or something.