arrow_circle_left arrow_circle_up arrow_circle_right
The Banter Page
help
If you're wanting to get something off your chest, make general comments about the server, or post lonely hearts ads, then this is the place for you.
arrow_circle_up
de-camping
Bottled out of camping in the end. Drove home 120 miles after the party. Got home at 4am. It was getting light and STILL RAINING
(pen) V. sensible, but be grateful for small mercies. It didn't get light here until midday on Friday.
more news
Had one (preliminary) interview today, I have another interview tomorrow, then flying to the Netherlands on Saturday with two recruitment agency interviews in Rotterdam next Friday, and possibly another interview back here on Wednesday 8th. This might have something to do with the fact that I still haven't decided where I want to live, or what I want to do.
Gadding About
penelope, you are running around like a teenager. I heartily approve. Luck.
Yeah, it sounds like the same kind of exercise as trying to get a university place through clearing when you don't have quite the right qualifications for the thing you REALLY want to do, but you *could* go to somewhere else to do part of it and work it around a bit. :o(
BTW, does anyone know how Liz got on during her first day in the new job?
Clearing
I trust that refered to the job hunt and not the Man Waiting in Rotterdam?
Furthermore
[penelope] What is it that you really want to do? If you need a "holdover job" that doesn't fit the bill, keep looking while you work, knowing you can quit when you get the perfect offer (unlike university). I can't belive that for someone as obviously mobile as you are, the right job isn't out there somewhere, or will be soon.
[SM] You're right. The job hunt. I went to see 2 recruitment companies in Rotterdam this morning, and they both seem to think I can find a decent job here, doing PR/Marketing/Editing stuff. I'm sitting at the Man's desk in Rotterdam right now, while he's in a meeting, and inventing a letter of application for one of the vacancies that one of the agencies seemed to think was up my straat.
(pen) Do you need to speak reasonable Dutch to get a job in Rotterdam? I know they can nearly all speak English, but even so it must help.
*waves from Newport News*
Hello, very hot here. We've just been for a swim in the hotel pool. Many prohibitions, as is usual, but one is the bizarrest I've ever seen: "No breath-holding".
Breath
[rab]:o) Good advice, too, if one reads it in the context of "while waiting for income tax to be repealed", I think.
Good News
Please excuse this interruption, but Dunx has had some good news. When you get a chance, you might like to visit the OMC chat game and see what's what.
[rab] As you perhaps know, the sign probably means that you are not allowed to do this.
All very good, though the pool in question was only 90cm deep at the shallow end. And I now have a grazed knee to prove it. Ouch.
(rab) That's three feet, isn't it? Just trying to visualise it. Sod metric.
A sod metric is 1 metre square, usually covered in grass or some other forage plant. In other news, I've got a job offer, less than I wanted, and I have to move house. But I have another interview this afternoon for a BIG job, on an international scale. I have no idea what will happen next.
Interesting developments
[penelope] Luckily time marches on, so you will find out what happens next, precisely as it happens.
30 Sods Metric (about the size of my back garden)
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaargh. I *think* this afternoon's interview went well. The second interviews are next week, which is when they'll give me personality tests to check I'm a loony, and make me do Sudoku maths tests (it's a Japanese company). In the meantime, I am holding off deciding about the other job offer I *do* have, and as all I have is an indication of a verbal offer from the recruitment agency, I think I'm safe so far. Sorry for blurting all of this out at you lot; you can expect more over the next few days.
The Stupid Internet Freebie Culture
I wanted to say "think nothing of it" in Japanese to penelope in order to appear clever, so I put the phrase into Babelfish and got back what was possibly accurate but entirely unuseable chickenscratch kanji (which I cannot read). I then went to the last, best hope for mankind, the Wikipedia, where I was confronted by paragraphs of "how to read kanji" (a bit of a puzzler given the assurances on the same page that kanji was so disorganised it would take years to learn even to a low standard of comprehension) and some phonetically spelled-out phrases, which was what I was after. They didn't include the phrase I was looking for, so I googled on "japanese phrase" and was directed to a couple of different sites. When these things finally loaded, they proved on close inspection to be nothing more than wrappers for the original wikipedia material.

It would appear that significant parts of the internet are actually just wrapping other people's stuff, which in all likelyhood is wrapping other people's stuff and so on and so forth. I wonder how much original material is actually out there? (This posting originally appeared in The Saturday Evening Post, Christmas 1954 edition)
developments
I've accepted the other job. The fickleness of women, etc etc... Now to move house, Before mid-September. Aaargh.
[pen] Not the big international job then?
International woman of mystery?
Personality tests to check I'm a loony
[pen] shurely to check you're not a loony...?
No, not the big international job. I thought hard about it, and chose the job that I thought would make me happy, rather than the pretigious and glitzy one. It's back in Lincs (closer to my mum etc), working in conservation (I think ten years is long enough in the auto industry) with plenty of chance to progress, and they really want me to work there. The other one would be all hassle, and it would be more difficult to have time with the windy miller.
They check to what degree you are a loony... don't they?
Can I just recommend mint tea with honey? Mint leaves, boiling water and a smidgin of honey. Especially in hot weather. Serve it in a glass, not a mug.
just catching up...
[pen] Wow! All the very best in your new job! Ah, moving house, fun for everyone. *sends good wishes*
[penelope] And what better revenge on your previous boss than to be able to target his/her gas-guzzling rustbuckets as part of your new job in a quest for greenness? Congratulations.
I can't be bothered with revenge! Anyway, thanks to flerdle and everyone for the congratulations - I think I've found a tiny (and I mean TINY) bungalow to rent and am just wondering which bits of furniture I have to discard in order to live in it.
Help
Apologies for cross posting: Am I remembering correctly that someone in the Morniverse is involved in, or knows someone who is involved in, dealing with 419 email scams? We have a student who has been taken in and may possibly need some advice?
Congrats
Well done pen! Lincs and Holland both as flat as each other, as far as I remember. What sort of conservation?
flattery
[IS,P!] The Woodland Trust. Woodlands and general boskiness. :o)
Networking?
[Pen] Oooh, you don't happen to know the best way for a biology graduate to find a job in conservation do you? I know it's very popular and rather hard to break into so I'm looking for a handy crowbar (to clumsily extend the 'breaking into' analogy).
and to boldly split infinitives...
[Knobbers] Voluntary work, to start, I guess; at least that way you get some experience, make some connections and get the chance to work in lots of different environments to find out which one you like. Maybe try the National Trust website and look at their working holidays - and those of other conservation trusts too. I started doing the NT ones about six years ago, then I was put forward to do the NT project leader course. In the meantime, find a job not too far off the subject - water, effluent or district councils? I'm a biograduate too - it took me 20 years to get this job, but then I'm going into their press office, not into the muddy end. I did labwork, odd jobs and newspapers for 10 years, then another 10 years or so in the automotive industry doing PR. Good luck!
jobs
I think Society Guardian is probably the best place.
Hmm... ok, thanks; I'll look into them. I hadn't actually thought of the NT.
Whinge about packing up the house
Whinge, whinge whinge... how come I have so much STUFF? Where does it all come from? I'm listing more stuff on Ebay every day, but actually throwing things away is really hard!
bargainous!
Woo-hoo! Just took advantage of a very quiet day on Ebay to bag myself a double-oven, ceramic hob cooker for about 70% of the price they normally go for. Here's to bank holidays at home doing something useful!
[pen] I think your second posting answers the question in your first.
pfffft
I know it *looks* like a cupboard, but otherwise I wouldn't have a cooker...
May I share my joy?
My little beer festival over the weekend was a huge success - so much so that we ran out of the festival beers yesterday at about 3pm. I totted up the empties this morning and we've sold 617 gallons of draught beer in the last 7 days (including lagers, cider and Guinness). That's a pint every 52 seconds of opening hours.
Yes, you may
Excellent news. Beer festivals are always to be celebrated...
drink up!
Well done Phil. When I get to Grantham (which will be on Tuesday, removals men willing), I won't be too far away. so I'll find a free weekend with the windy miller and bring him over so we can try your beers. In the meantime, I am well and truly boxed in. The house is echoing now. Yuk. And I still have to defrost the freezer.
Back to being a yellerbelly
I'm in! I've moved! Now just to get the cooker wired in, the boiler working, the TV connected... and the room full of too much stuff disposed of. Not to mention disposing of the 3-seater settee sitting out under the carport because it won't actually fit into the house :o( Does anyone want a second-hand Ikea 'Karlanda' three-seated sofabed, with paprika-red thick cotton 'Gobo' covers, which have just been laundered?
Setee
[penelope] Won't the back come off the setee? That can help get it through narrow spaces. There is sometimes a release mechanism or little thumb-wheel thingies hidden behind the setee under a velcro-secured fabric flap at the join of the back and seat. Fingers crossed.
I Kan't Envisage Amputation
erm... it's an Ikea one. They expect people to live in loft apartments with industrial lifts, not twee bungalows with narrow corridors :o( I'm going to flog it and buy a smaller one instead.
Smaller bungalow or sofabed? ;-)
More helpfully, one like yours (I think) went for £84 on eBay yesterday - link
*waves from Saarbrücken*
Hmmm. I have a feeling I've been here before.

Apologies for my extended absence. I try and make sure that nothing untoward is going on, but if there are any infelicities then please do e-prod me and I'll do my best to help.

Hmm, actually, it's a bit depressing that this hotel's free wireless connection is better than the one I have at home.

(Though, to be fair, it couldn't currently be worse than the wireless connection at home since the wireless box has gone kaputto. One of the things to do when I get back - apart from learn to drive - is to upgrade the broadband which should come free with a new wireless box.)

[Phil] Cheers! I've been looking for them on Ebay to see how much I can expect to get. It's the same settee (different colour), but mine has a full-size double bed cannily concealed within it. And very comfortable it is too.
I'll second that.
Woohoo pen! Moving can be lots of not-fun, so yay that you're (mostly) set up now. *raises glass to new house and new job*
Staying put
[flerdle] Thanks! :o) It just goes on and on - I think I've emptied more than half of it now. But it's a bit miserable doing it on my own - the windy miller has made his way back to the Netherlands already. I would recommend everyone had one of these to help if they were moving house, but I suspect if he was thinking of dumping me, then the disgusting mess I found under the sofa and the fridge would be reason enough to do so. He's gone back now, he says because of his TV appearance on their version of 'Restoration' to campaign for the restoration of a mill, and it was nothing to do with my poor housekeeping. His clogs are still in the hall - I think that's a good sign.
sorry, me again
Day 1 of new job. All well. Phone not yet working.
Incommunicado
(pen) That's the best kind of job - one where you aren't distracted the phone. It's as bad as having customers in the shop or passengers on the train. Bloody nuisance. Keep it that way. :-)
Winter is upon us
[pen] Good luck with the new job. Are all the boxes unpacked from the move?
Yesterday we had calls in our office for the heating to be turned on, then this morning it was so dark had to have the lights on to eat my cornflakes.
Sofa so good
Cheers, inkers. Boxes - not all unpacked. Sofa - too big to fit in house, but sold successfully on Ebay on Sunday night and collected on Monday. Job - fine. Phone on desk - not working! Winter - a-coming!
Shhhh!
It's a bit quiet in here, innit? Did anyone get 'tornados' this morning? There was a terrifically powerful squall over Grantham, but I'm not sure it could be called a tornado.
[pen] Downpour this morning, bright sunshine midday. Yesterday the 5-day forecast began with 3 days of sun.
The Tempest
(pen) Probably what is technically termed a "line-squall", i.e. a very sharp and active cold front. There may have been some minor tornadoes here and there but the term is bandied about rather too freely these days and you need really good evidence of a twisting motion before you can definitely claim a tornado. It seems that any damage was mostly caused by a straightforward heavy blast from the west as the cold front went through. You don't need a tornado or even a particularly gusty wind to take the roof off a house or blow a large tree down. Sheer wind speed will do it.
[Rosie] I'll settle for the 'line squall' then. And can someone please do something about the icecream van that toots The Liberty Bell (Monty Python's theme tune) every evening so it reverberates around? It's fixing itself into my subconscious, and I don't want it there!
[pen] Here, have a round or two of Greensleeves.
[pen] round here it's Colonel Bogie on the icecream van that tours the council estates. Just as irritating, I keep thinking of inscrutible Japanese and prisoners of war.
Mr Whippy
We usually have "Popeye the sailor man". Could be a lot worse. There is a cheerful trad jazz number called Ice Cream (You scream) but few know it so it wouldn't do. I'd like to hear the first few bars of the allegro con brio from Beethoven's Pathétique sonata. Daaaaaa, da da da da da dat da, da da da da da daa daa daa daa daa daa daa daa . . . . .
The ideal ice cream jingle would be John Cage's 4'33".
ice cream culture
I knew my throw-away remark about ice cream jangles would draw you lot out of the woodwork. Rosie's 'Ice Cream, You Scream' mention reminds me of a scene in Jim Jarmusch's 'Down By Law', which I saw as an Italian import, titled 'Daunbailo' and subtitled in Italian. (It's a phonetic version of the title, spelled as it would be pronounced if an Italian were to read it.)The story of three men in a Louisiana prison who, at one point, start the 'I scream, you scream, we all scream for icecream' chant around the prison. Ho hum.
(pen) The very words of the jazz number, which probably originated in Louisiana, in New Orleans.
[pen] I saw that film late one night, and have been wondering ever since what it was! Thank you!
[Phil] You're welcome. Any other unidentified objects to be named?
And now, Monday. A new week, a new month. I'm currently avoiding my writer's block by posting here.
Jolly good
We went on a day trip to Stirling, and the train took us past the building that this is hosted in. Which made me think of checking in to make sure it was still all working.
[rab] You know where your website is physically located? How do you do that?
[pen] Identifying objects: a film I saw a bit of when I was a kid which includes a scene of a man breaking down and crying "choo choo! choo choo!" which I believe referred to some big computer or other. What's it called?
[SM] Mostly cos Dan told me! But the hosting company website also gives this information...
trains of thought
[Darren] no idea. Next!
Waves from East Jerusalem!
How is everyone doing? Welcome to the new place and the new job Pen. Well done Phil on hosting a one-armed beer festival. Most of my MC contact these days has been with JLE through Kingdom of Loathing. Shows where my priorities lie! Oh well, wth. [Darren] Was it "fuctifino"?
[SM] I know where mine's located because I carried it there tucked under my arm. Anyway, it's not that unusual to choose a host at least in part based on location. A lot of people are hosting in Telehouse in the Docklands, so they'd know when they were passing by their server as well.
[Dan] You own the equipment this site is hosted on? I thought hosting companies used banks of their own hardware and we all sort of shared the pool of machines in some way.
[Dan] No sooner did I post that than I realised that you could own the hosting company, or be employed by it. Sorry to miss the obvious.
[SM] No, I just have a colocated machine in a datacenter. Colocation is when you provide the hardware and put it in someone else's facility and let them worry about bandwidth. And it doesn't host this site, it hosts that other one over there somewhere (gestures vaguely in a westerly direction). As far as this (rab's) site is concerned, when he was looking for a provider I just pointed out that there was one in the Edinburgh area that looked suitable.
[Dan] I had no idea that was one of the options available. Thank you for explaining it.
*burp*
OOps. Pardon me. I visited the East Midlands Regional Food Festival today, and watched Jean-Christophe Novelli charming the pants off all the middle-aged ladies in the audience of the demo hall. I tasted my way around three massive halls of food from local producers, and bought some cheese, some potted shrimps and a teatowel for my sister.
Comestibles
[penelope] The shrimp and cheese sound reasonable. I'm not too sure about the teatowel though as it's new to me. What is it and how does it taste - a dry Czech perhaps?
(pen) I hope you re-donned your underwear. *runs away*
Tsk Tsk! Had a Frenchman before. The accent does nothing for me now. Got a Dutchman instead ;o)
[Rosie] L M F A O. I'm not sure pen got it...
getting it...
I chose to ignore it :oP
Glad to hear you're getting it, penelope.
*issues a 'Stop Digging' order*
10/10
Traditionally, this day of the year has been my birthday, but thanks to the sterling efforts of the Royal Mail I can postpone the next tick of the clock to, oh, probably some time towards the end of the month by the look of it.
Actually - I'm going to pretend it's my 17th and will start taking driving lessons soon.
Many Happy Re-deliveries
[Rab]Have a bonzer day, mate.
alive
Hello all, now that I've finished my degree and have a proper job I'm intending to be on here a little more. How long will it last this time? A nation asks.
[rab] MHR's to you :-)
I believe the cost of driving lessons nowadays requires considerable financial planning. How about this sort of thing to get you going?
(Chalky) Got me going all right 'cos the link don't work. Not on this old tub, any road up.
Try stripping off the bit that goes "rab.org.uk/mc". It still wouldn't load for me, but I'm in a weird location at the moment.
I've fixed it. (Hmm, I thought my auto-link-repairer was supposed to spot things like that).
John Kettley is a Weatherman
So, how's the weather where you are?
wevvah
Beautiful morning in London today - sun rising through the autumnal mist as I crossed Blackfriars bridge, people stopping to take photographs, or just look at it. Positively Turneresque.
So, nothing new there then...
Hot. Humid.
[nights] So where are you now? You said somewhere you have moved countries, right?
[CdM] Strasbourg, France. I was made an offer I couldn't refuse - namely a lecteur's job and a four figure monthly salary. I teach speaking and listening in English to first-year undergraduates, and I rather enjoy it. The weather, on the other hand, can't make up its mind between autumn and a very late Indian Summer.
ahem
(nights) Indian summers, so-called, take place in autumn by definition.
october in hyderabad
[Rosie] Yeess... but I thought it was somewhat late for that. I stand, or rather sit, corrected.
(nights) I'm not totally certain where the term Indian Summer comes from. It may actually be India (from the Raj days) or it may be connected with American Indians. Google has all sorts of theories. Having been a meteorologist, albeit some time ago, I shouldn't have to look it up, of course. It's a bit like a doctor Googling "appendix" and then saying to himself "oh, it's that bit, is it?"
An American Indian summer is very unlikely. The Raj hypothesis is a lot more sensible.. I remember reading the phrase in a PG Wodehouse book, which dates it somewhat, and tends to place it in a Raj-like context rather than an Amercian context.
[Rosie] That's OK. I had a moment in class today where I was explaining about transitive and intransitive verbs, completely forgot which way round they are, and made it up instead. I should know things like that, I'm a bloody linguist.
transitiveness
(nights) Made it up? Hey, that's jazz, as we say after a string of bum notes. There is a tendency, which is currently going a bit too far, to use transitive verbs where an intransitive one should be used, eg "the temperature is reducing". Reducing what? People to perspiring lethargy? On the other hand we chemists have always talked about reacting A and B to produce something, meaning causing A and B to react (by putting them in a flask together and heating them, for example). Do other languages have this flexibility laxity?
(SM) Maybe not an "American Indian" summer but certainly an American "Indian summer" as it seems the phrase is well-established in the US where, according to Wikipaedia, it has the rather precise meaning of an unseasonably warm spell that takes place after the first ground frost of autumn. But it's possible they got it from the Raj, via us.
Linguistic flexibility
[Rosie] In our (italophone) house we just use whichever verb comes to mind and conjugate it appropriately (laziness on my part which my wife has caught). This leads to some hilarity but mainly exasperation of the shit-we-must-cure-ourselves-before-kids-come-along variety.
Rereading that it's not as clear as I had hoped. I mean if I can't be bothered to trawl my mind for the Italian verb I just stick the English one in and slap -are on the end.
[Rosie] "Laxity" is a pretty mild word for you to use in this context, Rosie; most unlike you. :-) I thought you devastated much more about this kind of thing.
I'd always assumed Indian summer was a U.S. phrase, simply because I don't ever remember hearing it before I moved to the U.S. (many summers, Indian and not, have passed since then).

On the other hand, Rosie, I'm not sure you should trust your chosen source too much.
(CdM) Cruvvens, mon, I insult at such a suggestion! Too right I devastate. My Morniverse-cred shreds and my confidence erodes. Needless to say I emote. *throws up*. Phew, that's better. "Indian Summer" was around when I was a small child and I wondered what people were on about. (ISP) You can do that in Welsh. Just stick -io on the end and you've verbed it, or wedi ei berfio as one would say. ( = "after its verbing"). Berf = verb but berfio is not in the dictionary.
[Rosie] I've noticed that as well. Of course, it might be that now that my contact with English is limited, things that seem "wrong" are thrown into sharper relief. Or I might just be being a bit nit picky, as I'm used to weeding through my student's work with a fine toothed comb. Yes, this paragraph is designed to put your teeth on edge.

[IS,P!] I'm glad I'm not the only one that does that. At a party this evening, we had "smoker", "lighter" and "jazzer up" - all standard -er verbs that conjugate as expected. "jazzer up", we decided, takes être in the perfect though.
(nights) Disgraceful. You could have Frenchified it a bit into enjazzer or something, still with être in the perfect of course. Don't forget the past participle is enjazzu. (It's irregular). You couldn't do that in Welsh; no j's, no z's. In fact many North Walians simply can't make the "z" sound, so that precision rhymes with fission. But they can do the double-L, of course. *gloat*.
'double-L' as in Llandrover, Llambs and Llight Rain... ;o)
Ah, memories of Max Boyce pronouncing Dallas with a Welsh double-l sound :-)
[Rosie] Hold on, past participle enjazzU? Not possible, my old chum, even if it is irregular. -er verbs NEVER form pp's that way, it's just not the done thing.
entendu
(nights) I thought not, but it was worth a try. How can we make enjazzer more interesting? Wouldn't enjazzir have some linguistic legitimacy? (pen, Phil) I am always tickled by Llanera, the sponsors of Charlton FC. Google says it's some dismal Spanish holiday-home construction company, but in fact it's a small village in Wales. In English it would be rendered as St Era's, or (more likely) St Gera's.
[nights] if it were jazzre, then jazzu would be logical.
(Phil) You're right, but can you say jazzre without spilling your pint? Difficult.
re - Llanera; I've just re-read my last post and it looks all too plausible. But don't look for Llanera; it ain't there.
[Phil, Rosie] Indeed it would be. Jazzre is a bit clumsy though, and sticks in the throat. I prefer jazzer, myself, as enjazzir reminds me of a slightly dirty word in French which I'd rather avoid. I promise not to bring up French again.
forrin lingos
(nights) If you stop talking about French I'll have to stop yakking on about Welsh, and that would never do.
bringing up French
Enspew?
[Rosie] Perhaps this is the wrong moment to bring up Russian, then?
(nights) Nice one, Cyril.
Good ol' Cyril. On another topic, who's excited about Christmas?
Oh don't
[nights] I just saw my first xmas ads on telly tonight but I'm not entirely blameless. I've booked a cottage on the west coast of Scotland for xmas, and I was looking for a butcher in Oban so I could order a duck for xmas dinner, to collect on xmas eve :op
(nights) Not these days, the politest response I can find. There will be no snow in this part of the world, something I realised by about 1954. Actually, there was snow on the ground in 1981, but normally it just rains.
I was only asking because the Christmas ads have yet to start here, and it's nice to not approach November with tinsel already becoming a chore rather than a delight. On the other hand, I HAVE just booked my flights back to the UK to see the family, so it's partially just me projecting.
In business terms, I am excited about Christmas this year, especially as I have all my events and entertainment booked and confirmed already. On a personal level, only one Christmas Day stands out as being better than any given Sunday - 2002. That was the year I joined a brass band and we played carols on every ward of the two hospitals in the town on Christmas morning. Everyone else got stressed at home while I was out, and they'd all calmed down again by the time I got back :-)
We're hoping to have our first Christmas a deux. I'm wondering about whether to go out for a curry for lunch. We like curries, and are rather hoping that non-Christian restaurateurs won't think that they have any reason to close on the big day.
Curry for lunch
My brother and his family invariably go out for Xmas lunch, and curry is frequently on the menu. I would not have any worries if I were you as to the willingness of restarauteurs in general to open on Xmas day, but make sure you BOOK FIRST! We're off to Italy again this year 'cos our friends are getting married on 22 Dec and no point doing Bxl-Trn-Man in the space of three days. A sad one this year as my Gran-in-law (if such be possible) snuffed it earlier this year so the famous Xmas agnolotti will be less tasty than memory makes them.
*prays for snow in the mountains*
Frost! We finally had a frost last night! Good job I brought the geraniums in...
No such excitement here. Although it's awfully cold outside.
Great steaming lumps - Christmas talk already? I'm surprised at you all. Still, it's better than Big Brother.
To engender conversation: "How is everyone?"
I'm well thank you, despite an inner dialogue at 6.30 this morning which ran thusly:
Nights, are you awake?
Yes..urgh...mumble... what time is it?
6.30.
Can't be. I'd be panicking that I'm going to be late if it was 6.30. (rolls over to face alarm clock.
Erm...
OH MY GOD IT'S 6.30 MY BUS LEAVES IN 20 MINUTES! WHERE ARE MY SOCKS?
arrow_circle_down
Want to play? Online Crescenteering lives on at Discord