mc5 - The Banter Page

hello clouds

*amble ... stroll ... custard cream* eh wha'? oh yea

None

Ah, there you are! Good to see you again!

None

And thanks for sorting out Doris!

Danke

[rab] Thanks for adding the Lock Cup link.

Bitte

[Dunx] Thanks for allowing me to steal and downsize your graphic :)

None

Thank you very much for the Aintree Iron

any old iron

[Boolbar] So that's where it went. Thanks for letting me know.

Top CelebCat

Well slap my jammy badger! I'm top!

None

*Doffs hat in awe*

Hmph

And I seem to be fondling the bottom, which is normally a good position to be in but not, I think, here.

None

rab] It depends who’s bottom.

None

[Btd] Or, indeed, whose bottom!

None

Uncle Korky] Or, indeed, Titania.

... And todays rant is......

I've just found out that they're taking my crosswords away. Who? (I hear you ask), the evil people at Guardian.co.uk. I'm trying to learn how to do cryptic crosswords, and quite frankly I'm not very good, so I only have a fighting chance on their 'easy' crossword (called the Quiptric, which is weekly and website only). The online Guardian crosswords (all of them, about 15 per week) are becoming a 'pay-for' service in 5 days time. I don't want to/won't pay £25 to access about 15 quiptrics per year (as i don't have patience or time to attempt it each week). So I've complained and am hoping that they will decide that they don't want to take my crosswords away after all.

Celebdaq

I've rather lost interest in Celebdaq. Gets a bit boring after a while - the kneecapping is crap and the dividends are stupidly high. I've left my portfolio unaltered for two weeks and can't find any enthusiasm to modify it. Don't know if that means I'll just bob about or if I'll be thrown off for apathy. And I'm afraid I don't care either way.

Come back!!

*wails*B--L--O--OO--OOO---OOOO-O-B!!! Don't run off just because the game is too easy!

None

[Lib] Well if they do - perhaps we could have a cryptic crossword game on this site - I'd be more than happy to contribute clues. Here are a few nice easy ones to be going on with :
Paying guest loses a fringe (6)
Vermin back in best Armenian families (4)
Mates in turmoil giving off vapour (5)
Tune on the radio ? (3)
WHERE THE EXECUTIONER'S AXE FALLS ? (5,7)
Food comes back as American time period (7)
Born in Little Rock, Arkansas - grew up in Colorado ! (7)
Darn fire is rubbish - more heat than light ! (5-3)

Hope that keeps you going for a while.

Easy game

[pen] Which game ?

None

[Blob] Well, I've got most of those. I didn't get the fifth yet, although it did make me think of
EXECUTION? (7,10)
which may contain the same seven-letter word as yours.

Crypticism

[Blob] We haven't had a cryptic game for a while, and I think some of the slow-burners here could be put to the rest for a moment (I'm thinking of Mrs Trellis and the Centurion for example). I would remark that crossword clues are more fun if (a) they're part of a puzzle with a grid (b) they are complete clues (with both the definition and the device) and (c) they're not all bl**dy tube stations.

[CdM] I got the fifth, but am not sure it's entirely sound unless someone can explain it to me. I haven't got 1,6 or 7 yet.

clues

[CdM] Well I did say they were easy - would yours be (Hidden text) by any chance ?

Perplexed

Well, that rules me out of the cryptic game - I can't get any of them.

Relax

[UK] I'm sure you can. Start off with say, 3 & 8 - they are obvious anagrams. I can't get 7. For what it's worth, I'd love to see a cryptic game in here.

None

I like number 5. :o)

None

Well, as I remarked at Dan's place not so long ago, I think that cryptic clue games have been all too frequent -- one every couple of years or so would be enough for me. Just a personal view. One possibility that might be good would be to move away from tube stations and find some other theme -- players' names?

None

[Blob] Thanks for the clues. Working on them, (could take a while!).

[cryptic game] There hasn't been one since I've been around (but know that's really not that long), not sure how it would work, or if I'd be any good at it, but Bring It On!!!!

celebdaq/cryptic crosswords

I'm still enjoying it for the time being. And I, too, am crap at cryptic crosswords. I got a book on how to work them out, but just couldn't be arsed. They just make me want to scream

WHY WHY OH WHY!!!

In a word

[snorgle] relaxation [CdM] I would argue no theme. Why must there be a Greg Rude-eskying theme? We've never had a general crytic clues game, as far as I'm aware.

Griddle

I wonder if there is any way to post a grid to use? The actual grids are pretty standardised, so drawing them up might not be too hard.
[Lib] I'm disappointed by The Guardian's move too, but not surprised - most of the other newspaper web sites charge for the actual news, which the Grauniad has refrained from doing. And The Times has been charging for its crosswords for years now (and, IIRC, rather more than 25 quid a year).

Amazed

Not only did I get the BB winner right, I got the exit order spot-on too. Not managed this before... I've got lots of shares in the winner, but that's not necessarily the one who gets most press coverage. Anyway, we can shut up about it now, and those who don't care can re-enter the discussion.

Fish trader

rab]of the remainig housemates I am pleased that Cameroon won as he is so unlike any other winner and tomorrow will be a bad day for the bookies who had backed Ray and Scott. No doubt there will be post mortems. I disagree with those in the Sun and the Beeb who say the series only saviour is sex to spice things up, and the public overwhelmingly voted for Cameron 'no sex before marriage'. I would like to see the telephone vote inceased to the top four nominations up for eviction to give the public a wider choice, and for the BB warnings to have an effect on the whole group.
The Celebdaq has gone through a couple of very strange weeks and it has been hard to keep the interest up whilst the rules changed. Hopefully we are over the worst and the game will improve again. Speaking of which this weeks table welcomes Doris_Newbold and the waves a sad to ISayPorter, and if Chalky or evil_edna think I'm going to let them antwhere near the No 1 post, all I can say is ... pah

trading plaices

[Inkspot] Aha! You have reckoned without my cunning plan. Seriously though, I haven't a clue what has occurred regarding rule changes over the last couple of weeks. I enjoyed the scramble to the top to achieve a knee-capping and a green boxy thing, and I am currently attempting to do it again, although there doesn't seem to be much in the way of ruthless and opportunist trading options. By the way, the MCLeague table attached to my portfolio tells a somewhat different story to yours. As the administrator, do you have insider information? teehee

More BB4

Cameron was no surprise at all - the bookies had him at 1/9 to win for most of the week. He was the biggest favourite the 4 series have ever had. I think the main reason was, like last year, the two good-looking young men in the house split the 14-year-old girly vote, leaving the outsider with a fighting chance. They also have entirely contrasting personalities, just like Alex and Jonny. I too disagree that only sex can spice things up. Au contraire - only arguments can. The producers tried too hard for a sexy bunch this year, with the result that the only good task was painting the horse costumes, so we could watch it dry.
Last year, Graham Norton commented: "The public have played a great game this yeat, as they've kept all the interesting people in." Did the public collectively think "Right, we'll do the exact opposite this time for a laugh" or something? If it were up to me, I'd have knocked off Cameron in Week 1. And left in Anouska, Fed, Sissy and Justine for Week 9. If Lisa were in at the start, things would've been different too. And I was secretly hoping that last night, BB might say "As a final surprise for the housemates, we're going to let Jon win regardless of how many votes anyone else gets." Now that would've been a great TV moment!
BTW, has anyone ever observed what a racist programme BB is? As soon as any black housemate's up for eviction it's a lead pipe cinch they're going. EG. Anouska, Gos, Lee, Adele, Narinder, Amma, Dean. It's almost as bad as how sexist it is.

[Dunx re "Griddle"] I've got an idea too, "Collective Consciousness Cryptics" where we all post a word at a time, make up a cryptic clue and then solve it, before fitting it into the grid. Won't that be great?!

Remark

Can I just remark how absolutely fabulous relaxing into a hot bath after a day walking in the hills is? Normal service will be resumed after a collective sign of pleasure.

Back to 'daq

[Inkspot] Cheers for the charming announcement of Doris' arrival. Sorry to hear that I Say Porter has left. Was this voluntarily, or has he disappeared again? I hadn't noticed his name missing from the table, although I was puzzling over how Doris could move in but there were still seventeen of us...

...and another thing...

I can go to bed happy in the knowledge that I have brightened Breadmaster's day with ...so help me God.

John

None

What's all this bollocks about?

Dear John

Just in case you can't figure it out, try something a little more intellectually challenging.

None

[Bob the dog] OOOOOOoooooooOOOOOOOOOOh!

um

[Btd] Um ... Didn't you actually just insult all of us, rather than John? *scratches head in puzzlement*

Ire

Just venting spleen - no insult intended. Sarcasm does not travel well on the internet - I should know this by now.

None

Actually I've been thoroughly enjoying the virtual poppy plastic!

Movers and Shakers

I have to say, I'm seriously impressed by the rapid conversion of a soupçon of an idea in 'So Help Me God . . ' into a full-blown smorgasBoardgame of delights. Bravo all.

Cryptic answers

I've hidden all the answers and explanations in the source, for those who want guidance on crypticity.

Paying guest loses a fringe (6)
Vermin back in best Armenian families (4)
Mates in turmoil giving off vapour (5)
Tune on the radio ? (3)
WHERE THE EXECUTIONER'S AXE FALLS ? (5,7)
Food comes back as American time period (7)
Born in Little Rock, Arkansas - grew up in Colorado ! (7)
Darn fire is rubbish - more heat than light ! (5-3)

Sourcing

Cheers Blob. The mystery of No 7 is revealed at last.

Sound as a pound

I'm not convinced about the soundness of either no 5 or 7 - unless I'm being really dense. Is the second word of 5 clued by anything other than the orthography? Also the 5th word of 7 is not just redundant but destroys the clue.

clues

[rab] By orthography I take it you are referring to the capitalization, in which case, yep, that is the main clue - and is pretty much an accepted method of cluing - as is using punctuation in non-standard ways. The wording of the clue of course refers to the thing that the axeman's victim's head rests upon.
Arkansas ? What's wrong with that - that's where Little Rock is.

Solutions

[Blob] Well... the executioner is probably a matter of taste - I take the view that you notionally downcase and depunctuate the clue so that what's left tells you what to do. Others disagree, suggesting that if you use 'Bath' in the middle of a clue, it would have to refer to the city as opposed to 'bath' which is a tub. The only way to properly introduce ambiguity is to use it at the start of a sentence. But I'm not that extreme.

On the other hand the Arkansas clue breaks at least two rules. Firstly the definition is not "Little Rock, Arkansas grew up" but simply "Little Rock grew up". And then, if we're being pedantic (which we are), it really ought to be "Little Rock grown up". The second rule is that the definition should never come in the middle of the clue, always at the start or the end.

Everyone has their own stance on what is acceptable and what is not. I consider myself a moderate compared to Ximineans like Don Manley (whose Crossword Manual is well worth a read). However, you might consider me onerously fascist for these opinions.

definitions etc.

I entirely agree that the definition must be either at the beginning or the end, not in the middle - but I was referring to the place Boulder, in Colorado ... so "in Colorado" is at the end as required. The Little Rock growing up was the cryptic clue, and the Arkansas for completeness, suggesting a place to be looked for. Even if you objected to this inclusion, spurious words are allowed if they do not fundamentally change the meaning, and I don't think it does.

None

[rab]I presume you now get the "capital" part of No.5 - as in death (literally head removal).

Weeeelll....

I think we'll have to agree to disagree about "spurious" words which I believe have no place in a crossword clue. This extends even to articles - the distinction between 'a', 'the' and an unmarked word can be huge in a crossword clue. But this is not really relevant to my beef that "Born in Little Rock, Arkansas - grew up" is not a suitable definition (even a cryptic, subsidiary definition) of "boulder". I accept it's cute that there's a place in the US called Little Rock, and a big rock is a Boulder, which is also a place in the US. I reckon one might be able to make a satisfactory clue out of it. Sadly, I don't think this one is it.

I expect now for you to reveal that it was taken from a Times puzzle...

None

[Blob, re capital] No, I only get the block part. Could you explain?

...

O.k. I'll admit that maybe the Boulder one was tweaking the nose a little, but I deemed it sufficiently obvious not to cause a problem in solving it - I've seen a lot dodgier ones anyway.

With regards the capital one : The executioner's chopping board was known as the block capital (admittedly perhaps only poetically) as it was the block on which capital punishment was "executed".

Dawn

[Blob] Poetry is fine - I can live with my ignorance.

Scum

I reinstalled win2k on my laptop tonight. In the space of ~45 minutes between installing the network driver and a firewall, I was hit by a worm. Sometimes I wonder why I bother.

Services

[Nik] This is pretty much exactly why I'm tending to install non-packaged Linux distros; something like Gentoo encourages you to choose exactly which services to turn on rather than the (for example) Red Hat approach of turning everything on and assuming you will remember to turn everything off before you attach your box to the net.

And I never attach my box naked to the net.

huh?

I still don't 'get' cryptic clues. Oh well.

...Rendered

[Dunx] I'm coming to the end of the process of making the box dual boot with Gentoo. I'm not sure how long Linux'll last on my desktop this time; I don't get along with it for such purposes. I try again once every few months, when MS release a 'fix' that, for instance, breaks all the media codecs, requiring a reformat.

Flummoxed

I'm getting an idea for a game in which players have to make up meaningless technobabble, and the next player has to interpret it as meaning something utterly mundane and non-technological. Not sure where this is coming from...

technotechnotechnobabble

Breadmaster] Divergent entropy?

babbling

[Btd] A group of people unable to decide which Chinese restaurant to go to.

Getting it

[flerdle] Without banging on too much about it, cryptic clues are really good fun when you get into them - both solving and setting them. Those eight I did were just quickies off the top of my head, so not terribly good examples (as pointed out by various people) - but a really neat clue is a joy to behold.
The basic premise is that the clue is in two parts : The definition and the clue (or wordplay). The definition is a direct reference to the word(s) in question - most usually a synonym, but in the case of names for example it might just be "he" or "she" to signify a male or female name. Also "in (country)" often means that it is a reference to a town/city in that country.
The definition must always either be at the beginning or the end of the clue. Occasionally it is the whole clue, with the crypticity wrapped in the way it is phrased.
The clue part is the interesting bit - this is where a second, indirect reference to the word is made. Here are the main ways that the cryptic part is formed :

Double definition (a second definition for the same word - though with a different meaning)
Anagram
Embedded (the word is in there, usually split between two or more words, but running consecutively)
Reverse embedded (as above but running backwards)
Homophones (... sounds like ...)
Exclusion (removal of specified letters or words)
Concatenation (joining words together)
Inclusion (one word placed inside another)
Puns (word play that suggests the answer)
Representation (Roman numerals, chemical symbols etc)
Any combination of the above

I bet I've missed something crucial; but if we did have a game then we could maybe explain each clue as it is solved to help cryptonewbies.

Crytpology

[ferdle] There are a certain number of rules to help solve cryptic crosswords. The word is always defined, usually at the beginning or the end. If the clue is two words long then its usually a double definition (example, office desk (6) = bureau). Ignore all punctuation. Another good hint is to find anagrams. words like 'scrambled', 'mixed', 'blended', 'confused' and many others besides (and some are rather obscure and I don't get them). ~Solving one of Blob's clues (I hope nobody minds, it is an easy one!) STEAM is the soultion to number 3 (anagram hinted by the words in turmoil). I'm still at the early stages of learning. I find it helpful (and frustrating) to attempt crosswords with a friend, who is rather good and happily explains clues when I don't get it. Working a crossword back with the anwsers can also be useful. Is that helpful or just more confusing or not what you wanted? If you want to find more rules and hints how to slove then visit www.guardian.co.uk and go to the crosswords section and there is a page dedicated to 'how to solve' things.

[all] Ummm, little miss untechnological strikes again. How do I do hyperlinks?

how to solve

btw, sadly the guardian's page only tells you how to solve cryptic crosswords. If only it was a 'How to solve anything' page.... All of life's mysteries could be solved. Like, why is belly button fluff ALWAYS blue?.......

aagrh

Previewing my move meant I didn't notice/wasn't alerted to the fact I had been simuplosted. Blob's explaniation is far more eloquent than mine! sorry!

New I'd missed something ...

Foreign words are often used - but generally only tiddlers, such as "The French" for LE or LA (possibly LES), or "With German" for MIT.

None

[Lib] I did the same just now. ... And of couerse I meant "knew" not "new"
[Lib again] How to do hyperlinks :
<A HREF="www.thisisthesite.com/thisisthepage.htm">This is what I want it to say</A>

testing!

Thanks Blob. Testing my new found hyperlink skill to send ferdle to this aforemetnioned page.

Mind

I'll bear in mind that when previewing you're not alerted to a simulpost. Before I can make the necessary changes though, I'll need to sort out my laptop's hard disk because it has various versions of different pages that are stored on a range of servers. At the risk of upsetting the Breadmaster I think I'll need to work out how to set up virtual servers in apache to solve all my problems (notably, the DNS name of my laptop changes according to which network I connect it to).

Meanwhile, the cryptics. I can recommend two books. One is 'Cryptic Crosswords and How to Solve Them' (published I think by Chambers - you can search Amazon for example). The other is Don Manley's Crossword Manual, linked to above. The former is better for jumping in. Basically it lists the devices, and then gives some graded puzzles, with the amount of help diminishing as the book progresses. My main gripe is that the authors do like (a) to show off how clever they are; and (b) literary allusions rather than give you practical advice to clue-solving. Manley's book is much more thorough, but as he treats things more from a historical perspective, you'll find yourself dealing with Victorian mindbenders before getting into the cryptics proper. However, this book does offer an insight into the mind of a setter, which is invaluable.

One thing I dislike is microclassification of clues. Since pretty much every clue involves a combination of devices the only classification is:

Single definition: usually cryptic, or relying on a pun.
Double definition: what it says on the tin. One definition might be more cryptic than the other.
Definition + device: where the device is basically a set of instructions that tell you how to make the desired word.

Because you normally have two indications to the solution, it's very rare that there's any ambiguity in the clue. Although the definition could be as vague as "country" the chances are the device points only to one possible country. In that sense, I find cryptics easier than quick crosswords. On the other hand, the range of words used is often wider, so that makes it harder again.

Are we still playing the meaningless jargon game?

My all time favourite clue was suggested in an excellent book I read on cryptic crossword solving.

GEGS (9,4)
Answer:(Highlight to reveal hidden text)scrambled eggs*

None

[BtD] Which featured in a particularly good episode of "Drop the Dead Donkey" if I recall correctly.

Quiptics

[rab] Yes, Cryptics ought to be easier than "Quick" crosswords really, as you're getting two clues in one. Doesn't really work like that though - coz. firstly it could be either end that you're looking for - plus the definition itself is not necessarily straight forward. For example (again off the top of my head, so not necessarily too good), Great Persian holds quiet land (6) might be the cryptic clue, whereas the quick would probably be along the lines of Island country (6). The difference being that whilst the Quick is too vague to be able to pinpoint the country in question - it does not require you to know anything about Persians - and points you to the land being required rather than the Persian himself.
Re GEGS, that was my Dad's favourite clue too - and he told me about it, ooh, thirty years ago - so it's quite an old one.

Naturally

[Blob] This, of course, it what makes one puzzle "easier" than another in my book. For example, whilst the Everyman crossword (Observer) has a tendancy towards irritatingly vague clues, it doesn't a great deal of "general" knowledge - it's helpful to know the odd place name, or big names in various fields but nothing too out-of-the-ordinary. Contrarily, the Private Eye crossword is billed as "difficult", but I complete it about as often as the Everyman (an "easy" crossword). This, I think, is largely because the allusions are generally related in some way to the magazine (Brenda and Brian, for example, refer to the Queen and Prince Charles respectively) rather than to some obscure ode written by a 17th century poet I've never heard of. Horses for courses. I would like to be able to do the Times, or an Arucaria, but doubt I shall ever be able to scale such heights.

Definitions

[Blob, again] I find that, with practice, and if you're used to a particular setter's style, identifying the definition part of the clue can be fairly straightforward.

ta.

[Blob, Lib, et al] Thanks for that, will look over it properly in the morning. Did I mention I never learnt how to play chess either? But don't feel you have to explain here :-)

cryptoculture

Just returned home - so it's good to catch up with the cryptic chat. I attempt the Times crossword most days but can only usually complete with the aid of some very clued-up chums and has become part of our 'early doors' at the pub ritual. Coincidentally, 'GEGS' was also a favourite of my Dad, bless 'im - and brings to mind his almost child-like enthusiasm for the infamous 'HIJKLMNO [5]' clue.

Explanations R Us

[flerdle] Right then - there are 16 pieces on each side - 8 pawns ..... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
[rab] I certainly agree that you get used to certain setters' styles. No doubt about it. I'm afraid I have to admit that the cryptic I do regularly is the, ahem, Daily Mail (my wife's choice, honest) - which I actually rather like (the crossword that is, not the bloody paper) - some of its clues make my Boulder, Colorado one look positively officious by comparison. I can normally rattle it off in about 20 minutes - but every now & then, I get a setter who's on a completely different wavelength (or planet) and it takes me ages.

HIJKLMNO

[Chalky]Not seen that one before - What a truly excellent riddle, initially !

HIJKLMNO

[Blob] So it's new to you? Out of interest, how long did it take you to solve it?

HIJKLMNO

[Chalky] Just before Blob answers, I've seen it before doing the rounds as a dingbat at quiz nights.

recycling

Ah - dingbats. That poor relation. Puzzles for the masses. Well, at least it keeps a classy clue 'alive'. Incidentally, the craze for dingbats - something else that the .. erm .. estimable Daily Mail has to answer for?
dingbat [U S slang]n. something whose name one has forgotten, or does not want to use: a foolish or eccentric person: a tramp: money. Adj. [Austr. & N Z coll.] daft, crazy. [Austr. & N Z coll.] the dingbats: delirium tremens.
Such provenance says it all.

HIJKLMNO

Not too long - the brevity of the answer (just five letters) meant it had to be some clever way of reading the clue, so I just read it to myself in several ways and got there in a minute or so. But that's not to say it might not have taken me a while - perhaps I've seen something similar before, dunno.

How 'bout...

O (4,6)

Head scratching

Dunno 'bout Martha's. I got the HIJKLMNO one pretty much immediately when I saw it, but it was in the Cryptic Crosswords and How to Solve Them book as part of a special feature on weird clues, so my mind was already pointed in the right direction. One that I saw in a Grauniad crossword, and don't actually think is that great a clue (for reasons I'll explain later) is "K (7)".

None

[MF] That one is my favorite clue. :-) I was reading down through the game and was about to post it, until I saw that you had got there first. Although I think the clue should actually be
O? (4, 6).
And here's a clue mentioned in the Sandy Balfour book that I recently reviewed at Orange, which although not perfect, you have to admire:
Bust down reason? (9).

stupid damn clues

Stop putting damn clues and no answers! Some of us are thick, you know!

O? (4, 6)

Would that be (Highlight to reveal hidden text) full circle ?

O? (5,6)

Round number.

O? (4,6)

How about open letter?

"K (7)"

Can't get that one - not enough letters for Potassium...

K (7)

[rab] If it's Rufus, this must be Kelvins - if it's Enigmatist, I haven't got a chance :o)
No-one's got mine yet, and I don't think the "?" helps at all. Like HIJKLMNO, there's no definition involved.
As for "Bust down reason", I know this and I wouldn't've got it in a million years. At least, not without some letters.

None

Is O (4,6) like v (6,2,7) ??

None

Oh and is K Weekend?

k

Boolbar] I thought the same - but wouldn't the clue be in lower case, if that were the case? [MF] I'm still flummoxed by the 'O' clue but have a hunch it's more to do with numbers than letters.

v(6,2,7)

What, Middle of Kelvins or something? Sadly no. Well done on K though.
[Chalky] Yes and no. Unhelpfully.

Durr

The Weekend one reminds me of one we had on Cryptic Stations which was e This was Mile End - though I, like Chalky was put off by the capitalization - and was looking for a "head" or "top" answer.
[MF] I thought Raak had got O - you're saying not ?

None

Nuts - that "head" was supposed to be hidden.

Case bust (7,9)

Crosswords are generally filled in in all upper case, so I think "K" is valid. For "bust down reason", would this be something to do with not wearing a bra? I can't think of a 9-letter way of expressing that though.

Bust down reason

Maybe lactating?

K

Boolbar - you are correct on this one. But the reason I dislike it is because (a) it's ambiguous - the answer could just as easily be bookend; (b) there's no definition, purely a device; and (c) even as a device it's flawed because it's not indicated (e.g. with the phrase "to a setter"). These "inverse clues" are becoming more prevalent, but I don't think they're big or clever.

O

[Raak] That is true. You can make up several answers that match some of these clues - like O (4,6) = Come second. My 'v' is much the same, but is a famous schoolboy joke.

Bust down reason

[Raak] There's a simple way of expressing bra in 9 letters it's brassière. But apart from the bust bit, I can't see why it should be the answer.

Ohhh, I geddit...

[Bb] Centre of Gravity, ha ha. No, mine isn't the start, end or middle of anything. Or the second. Or even "a letter in the word 'open'".
[Blob] I said not when I said "No-one's got mine yet".

None

[MF] Too direct a clue there, Martha ! ;-)
Quick joky one : çontrol mechanism (6,6)

French accent?

BTW, there is a definition for "Bust down reason" - it's not just a device. I can't tell if there is for "Case bust", which could just mean something that encases a bust ie. "Playtex Brassiere", which is wrong.

None

[MF] No. Slightly more amusing in a schoolboy humour sort of way.

Busty clues

[Blob] I think brassière would be clued as "Bust up reason (9)". [MF] "Case bust" wasn't meant to be a clue.

None

And the (7,9)??

None

[MF]Just an allusion to the clues I was commenting on. But if you can find a solution anyway, don't let me stop you! Am I anywhere on the right lines with my solution to "Bust down reason"?

None

Yes.

I feel CdM's Bust

Down Reason should be given away by CdM, but as for my "O", the first letter is L.

Bust descending

CdM] does the answer begin with 'S'?

Ooooooops...

[Raak] You're nowhere near with "lactating".

O

[MF] Is it Love letter ?

Oh!

[Bb] That's the most convincing one I've seen so far. I think I understand the bust clue, but that doesn't bring me any nearer to solving it!

bust

I like the Bb one aswell. I'm attempting to conceal my bust solution - would the 'preview' show the word as hidden? Not sure if I'm tagging correctly.

None

[Bb] Congratulations!
[Raak] You're definitely thinking about it the right way. I agree with Martha that it's a very hard clue (I didn't get it when I was reading the book.) The first letter is B.
[Blob] I'm not sure if you are referring to a different occasion, but I clued "Mile End" as
More? (4,3)
with the idea that it should be read as "M or E"

kenny

what the fuck is a APROPOS

I BET SHE LIKES IT DOGGY STYLE ASWELL. THAT CATALINA BINT I MEEN, NOT THE QUEEN MUM GORD BLESS 'ER.

Three-sixties

I'm sure she does. Meanwhile, CdM's 'more' clue would have Ximenes turning is his grave.

For CdM or Martha

Can you confirm if the clue should be read as a double definition, 'bust' and 'down reason', the whole therefore being something that would make you depressed, either through being broke or broken? Thanks. (Hmmm... sees the appeal of a MCiOS-u-like hidden-text feature).

Hiding To Nothing

[rab] Quite so on the hidden text: goes double with skins where the background colour can vary dramatically.

Dr Jekyll

Yes... <hide>the clue should be read as a double definition</hide>

And, irritatingly, no... <hide>Nothing to do with depression - this may be a clue too far, but it's not "bust 'down reason'", but rather "'bust down' reason"</hide>
HTH. (But not really.) :oP

None

[rab] You're absolutely right about "More?" -- I am of the school that is generally Ximenean, but will make an exception for a good enough clue. Which "More?" isn't -- and I think I acknowledged as much when I set it. As for the bust clue, I don't think you are on the right track. The structure of the clue is: essentially double definition, but with each word having a different sense in the two definitions. One of the definitions clues the answer, the other clues a phrase.

oops

Sorry -- just got caught by the same preview/simulpost problem...

None

I still think it ought to be 'strapless' rightly or wrongly.

Oh

[CdM, Martha] Thanks for the help without managing to give the game away - I'm not sure if I'll get this. The preview/simulpost problem is noted, and I'll try and sort it out at the weekend.

Plus

On the plus side, it does mean, CdM, that you're preview problem a while back was a one off.

Meanwhile

I'm wondering if it's time to put Mrs Trellis to bed.

Goodbye Mrs. Trellis.

I did think of a couple of game ideas - but both have been slightly started on the other MC sites.
(1) Author Imposters Tag Wrestling - A story is told by different authors, each trying to guide the story in their style and choice of characters. Stephen King, Enid Blyton and Shakespeare can nuke it out!
(2) Animal Diaries - The animals have a game of MC - as told from extracts in their diaries.
(3) Or something cryptic.

Banned list

I was going to remark that the following are currently on my banned list: imposters, combined, bad-tempered, chivalrous, Lord Byron, Bad HTML, ostrich, ham(p)ster and Spartacus.

No! I'm rab!!

And I want to know what that <blink>f*cking</blink> hampstrich has done with my bicycle. Please.

Spartacus

None

I'm Spar . . . oh sorry rab, I'll just go away then. *shuffles off*

None

[Bool] There's already a slot free at Orange, if rab doesn't like those ideas.

[X-philes] "Flying heart doctors" A-O-I-I (This is a real one that I can't get.)

gil

None

AEOLIAN would fit from the flying point of view if the final I was wrong... but as for doctors. Isn't HEART sometimes used for L? as in I [HEART] NY?

Maybe...

...but I'm 100% on the second I. (It's from "Oriflamme".) I think it must be "Amorini", ie. "cupids", but it doesn't look right.

None

I spose "doctors" because they 'doctor' people's hearts, ie. screw around with them. Although since they're sticking them with arrows, I wouldn't hire them myself.

Amorini

I was about to suggest amorini - see here but I still can't quite make it add up.
[CdM] Re Mile End - no it was a clue eons ago - not yours.
No-one's done my little çontrol mechanism (6,6) yet.
As for the bust thing - I'm completely stumped.

Watty

*groaning*

[Blob] It's French letter, isn't it?

Cdm

A trip to my copyright lawyer

[Blob] Nonono -- mine was eons ago (June 2000); the other one was hardly more than a year ago. :-)

preview problem

[rab] It wasn't actually a one-off -- I had the problem for several weeks, and I stopped ever previewing for a while. But then it just went away. Sorry for not keeping you more up to date.

New game ideas

[CdM] Right. This will have to go into the book of the great unexplained.

[Boolbar, MF] It's not that I particularly dislike those ideas, it's just words like "imposter" trigger an "Oh no, not again already"-style response. I actually like the sound of the authors game - with a different moniker I might have realised the potential sooner. The reason for the banned list is that I find that such games, due in part to the huge numbers of times they've been played before, tend to be somewhat lacking in quality.

And while I've got my bad-tempered unchivalrous patronising primary-school teacher imposter hat on - could I urge people to think carefully about (a) the sense and (b) comic potential of their limerick lines. I've seen a number of great set-up lines from all players, only to be let down in a number of cases by not-so-great punchlines. I appreciate that I might be responsible for some of these and have already slapped myself on the wrist.

Aren't the clouds particularly fluffy for the time of year?

None

[rab] I agree about the overuse of some games leading to a lack of quality. [MF] The 'coin' game at orange is a little too much like the animal game. The 'authors' game I suggested is a little too close to "Once upon a time..." at MCiOS. This is why I've not started either . . . yet.

The clouds out of my window are lacking in fluffiness being more of a fuzzy amoeba-like greyness.

None

[Watty] Yo's gottit
[CdM] Oh, that eons ago - not sure I'd even discovered the site(s) at that time !
[Games] a straightforward cryptic clues game (not metrocentric) would be new.
Meanwhile, as this seems to be the home of crypticity at the moment, how about :
Support being laundered to change opinions (9)

None

*giggles insanely*

Let's be straight

The moval of the cryptic challenges to a separate page might be a good thing, particularly for those who aren't that interested. It could simply be a forum to post, solve, explain and shout down clues rather than a game with any particular theme or aim (I'm thinking in the style of the various discussion games there are/were at Orange and MCiOS like Books or Rattling Dice).

Meanwhile, Blob, my first thought was brainwash but I can't get that to fit, and in the light of Martha's comment which appeared while writing this, I suspect I'm completely on the wrong track.

matt

None

[rab] My first thought was jockstrap, but I can't get that to fit either, so I guess it just reveals further unwanted details of my psyche.
[authors] I like this idea, but story games do seem to get mired pretty quickly. Once Upon A Time already looks ready to be shot in the head. Oddly enough, the first move in that game was originally going to be by "Arthur Conan Matt" -- which could easily have (unintentionally) turned it into something like you're suggesting -- perhaps it might have worked better if so.

None

*rolls around laughing on the floor and discovers Martha there*

*ting*

[rab] Spot on : not sure what you object to : bra is a support, in wash is being laundered, brainwash is to change opinions. Can't really see why that's not playing the game.

Blob

No, that's fine. You shouldn't assume that just cos I don't get it, I think there's something wrong with the clue. I am also quite dense.

Disappearing act...

Just a quick note to say that I’m off on my hols tomorrow, so I’ll ‘see’ everyone on the 16th when I get back.

None

*writhes in agonies of hysteria, tears streaming from eyes, gasps from lack of oxygen, has near-death experience*

cryptic giggle

What's so funny? Weirdos.

*putting people out of their misery*

[rab, Blob] Um, now might be a good time for you to reconsider:
Bust down reason (9).

Reason for falling down, busting a gut and laughing.

I think I might have worked out why CdM and Martha are chortling so ... but if so, I don't really get the clue.

Dawn

Oh, I see! Martha kinda put me off the scent a bit. And, no, I'd never have got this in a million years without the foregoing and a numerical hint.

Shakey

I think Raak's posted a category killer of a move in Shakes and Ladders... I have a couple of ideas, but how to compete with such an excellent play?

Durrr

*sound of someone being incredibly thick* (still can't get it - I have a nasty feeling that when I finally discover the answer to this, I may have to (a) hit myself over the head with my mouse then (b) hunt down Martha & CdM .... )

Roger me with a garden rake and call me Gerald

It's August!

Oh dear....

[Blob] Tempting though it is to leave you out there swaying in the wind ... let me put it this way. Perhaps now is a good time for you to reconsider
Bust down reason (9)
in the light of
Support being laundered to change opinions (9).
Here's another hint. If you examine the two clues closely, you will notice that there is the same number of letters in each answer!

None

[Dunx] I have another daisy-cutter ready, but I've been holding off, hoping for other people to carry on.

None

[Raak] I'll try and post my one feeble idea later today, but the pressure of following such an outstanding move is rather great!

Brainwave - I mean wash

Ah - so I clued the same word. Not quite as serendipitous as it might at first seem, as brainwash was one of the words I'd considered but rejected - but it looked like a nice sort of word to clue, so I did. I still don't really see why it's the answer though. I think I'd put that on my crap clues pile along with about 20% of the Daily Mail ones that I only get once I have sufficient letters.

None

That came out a bit peevish - perhaps I'm missing something.

gaming license

Hello again. I've been away, but sadly nowhere exciting (And i've been keeping my eye on things by the joy of WAP). I'm looking forward to the cryptic page, sounds like my cup of tea! Anyway I've had an idea for a game. Not sure if the technology is out there (and I'm sure someone far cleverer in such matters will be able to say "yay" or "nay") or if its been done before (and failed) but anyway, The idea is a caption competition. Someone posts a piccie and then we all suggest captions until we get bored, then someone else posts a different piccie. Will it work?

Captions

[Lib] Spinnwebe and other sites have been doing glorified caption competitions for years. Don't see why it can't work here too. You just have to be careful about where you get the pics, of course. Spinnwebe (aside from the ill-fated DFC which ripped off the Family Circus cartoons) used to get pics from people submitting their own photos into the stockpile. We could do that here, it would be a lot of fun.

Cryptics

Oh, and as for cryptics, if anyone ever ventures into rec.puzzles.crosswords, I was the creator of the FSCC (five-second crossword competition) which afaik still runs to this day. (You make a 5x5 cryptic crossword with certain restrictions, and the participants vote on the entries to see who wins.) Typical of me, though, I never took part in it again after the very first round!

Continuations

Sorry for posting so many times on this page with so little content. Here's a link for Spinnwebe's caption stuff: http://www.spinnwebe.com/a1/

matt

bust down reason

[Blob] I couldn't get this, but having had it revealed I can see the rationale and I have to agree it is frightfully elegant. Both MF and CdM have described the mechanism, so it is probably redundant of me to point out the double definition: reason bust is down = bra in wash; to bust down reason: brainwash -- but as MF will no doubt attest, I'm always ready to be ploddingly literal at times like these.

matt

get thee to a flummery

In any case, since Lib has gently encouraged Mrs Trellis back into retirement, perhaps it's time to dignify the cryptologists with a game of their own? I'd do it myself if I had the aptitude, but (as should be painfully obvious) I don't.

Technical support desk

[matt] Well, you click on 'Start a new game' and then... oh. I see what you mean. Yes we need a suitable title and intro blurb. In the absence of other titles, perhaps 'Bust down reason (9)' would be appropriate?

'Start a new game' and then...

Or Obscure vault 99 (7)

None

Or "Cry 'Picts!' - resolve difficulties"?
Anyway, can anyone help with "Bank's route to the deposits" I-C-I--? I think it might be Incline, but why?

wail over postscript about spasm (8)

I suppose you have inc-line (or a line/route to an inc) where inc = increase = deposit, and a bank is an incline.

Me being picky

[Boolbar] Your "wail..." clue isn't quite legitimate as it omitted the straight def, and it doesn't really work as an &lit imho either. Maybe make it "Clues wail over postscript about spasm" but that doesn't have a very good surface, unfortunately. [matt] Incidentally, "bust down reason" isn't a double def, it's an &lit. A double def is where you have two definitions next to each other. An &lit (meaning "and literally true") is where the whole clue is simultaneously both the cryptic form *and* the straight def.

Today's Everyman

Some nice clues but I can't get 6D. Maybe it'll come to me when I go for a swim presently. For the record the clue is "Hope chest contains last gift brought over (6,6)" and I have B_T_O_ D_A_E_. I would also explain why I find some of today's clues quite elegant, but think I should wait until someone makes a ruling on what the X-word game should be called.

Everyman

BOTTOM DRAWER. I tried the Independent crossword yesterday, and solved exactly one clue. Completely baffled by the rest -- how does the Independent crossword rank against the others for difficulty? Left it on the train, so I can't quote examples.

Deep down and dirty

[Raak, re your solution[ That's what I thought but why?

[Raak, re Indie] I had a go at this too, and solved four clues. My Dad does the Indie on a daily basis, and I can't remember which setters he claims to be easier than the others. I think they range from somewhere just above the Everyman to somewhere just below Arucaria. But I might be wrong.

Hope chests

[rab] "Hope chest" is the definition, "last" is a definition of the first word, and "gift brought over (i.e. reward reversed)" indicates the second.

Picked

[Darren] You are right, but I though it was getting so obvious what was being clued that the definition was pointless (well that's my excuse anyway!!)

Chesty teaser

[Raak] Thanks for that... I've never heard of a hope chest, but I did at least manage to get a fruity desert I'd never heard of in the same puzzle so that almost gave me a feeling of pride and accomplishment.

[Game names] Any of those would do. Someone care to cut the ribbon, or do I have to do it?

Update update The requested simulpost-during-preview warning has been added. But not, I'm afraid, on this website. It's on the 'working copy' which, for good measure, has been converted to use an exciting new cauliflower to drive the HTML sprocket. What this means in practice is that you'll notice no changes in the forseeable future, but I might one day get round to writing alternative interfaces (eg WAP). Job etc.

None

Hey, look at that. My connection has stayed alive three mornings in a row. Which is handy, with me working on weekend time for two of them, and forgetting to check on my way out again this morning.

Busted flush

[CdM, MF, matt] O.k. I see it now - and as you say, it does have a certain elegance. My only quibble with is really is that it is a bit two-staged, in that <hidden_bit>one has to get to "bra in wash" as a reason for the bust to be down, and normally such two-stage clues are inadmissable. Like having to find a word and then anagramise it. I've seen it done, but it does cause confusion IMHO</hidden_bit>

None

The distinctive feature of the "bust down reason" clue is that the entire clue is simultaneously the definition and the cryptic indication, instead of them being separate halves.

Flush or bust

[Blob] I think this what Manley calls "A clue to a clue"; but didn't you know you can excuse anything with a question mark. In any case as Raak and Darren point out, it's an &lit clue. This type of clue is what people entering the Azed clue-writing competition usually aim for. Often with disastrous consequences, as it's extremely difficult to get a clue that is both crossword-grammatically correct and furnish a sound definition of the whole.

Cryptologists please note

The obscure vault has been opened, probably to the relief of the uninterested.

*pipes up*

But what shall we talk about, now?

None

No fluffy clouds here today.

None

Dark here now.

dreams of darkness and coolness in the blinding 30 degree heat of the office*

I dropped crunchy nut cornflakes and milk in my keyboard this morning. :o(

Talking points

[pen] Whoops.

Meanwhile I'd like to point out, though I will suspect none will care, that the 'Extended overhaul' of the DJ Shadow track 'Organ Donor' (on the Preemptive Strike compilation) is a triumph.

*laughs fearlessly at 30 degree heat*

I had Froot Loops for breakfast this morning. mmmm sugar.

I skipped brekkie and went straight onto lunch.

PUBLIC HEALTH WARNING.

On wednesday, newly qualified Dr Lib and hundreds of her Doctor friends are being let out onto the British public at large, allegedly to make them better. It is your duty to do us all a favour and avoid getting admitted to hospital (preferably for ever! but if you must get ill then at least wait a week or two so the new baby doctors will have had chance to work out whats going on). I thank you all for reading this announcement and wish you all the best of health.

None

Not the best time to have my knee go dodgy while working out, then?

Why breakfast is important

None

*Insert hen pun here*

Tuesday is the day that our Chickens arrive. We'll be trotting over to Craven Arms in Shropshire (sounds like a pub but isn't) to collect them. Hooray!

Chicken Pun

[Btd] Egg-sellent!

Rubbish start to the day

Having made it all but three steps into work this morning, a lump of purple shit fell out of a tree and landed on my (of course) clean white t-shirt. I've spent several minutes in the gents scrubbing it like crazy and am now back in my office on one of the hottest days of the year with the fan heater blasting out in a vain attempt to make the slightly-less-stained shirt less moist. Of course, now the heater has cut out, deciding it to be way too hot. Grrr...

I spose

I could stand out in the sunshine, but then at the risk of burning my poor head...

Thos

Head of the class

[Rab] I concur. As I have stated before: Summer = evil.

Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe and Eggrything.

[BtD] Which are you getting first? The chickens or the eggs?

Counting chickens

[BtD] I'd love to keep chickens. Are they RIRs or fancy ones with feathered legs?

Chicken tikka marsala

[BtD] So they're LIVE ones - what fun! I 'did' bantams for one rather rustic year when I was younger and foolish enough to want to impress a potential husband [animal husbandry pun obligatory].

IN the Hen House

[Chalky] But did it work?!! We need to know these things! Is it worth investing in half a dozen chickens and a hutch or is my money better spent on posh underwear?

Defurcation

Someone's shat on the furcation game? Do we want it reinstated? I guess that's aimed at Martha Farquar really.

Ready... aim...

The subject of the aiming being the question about reinstatement, not the shitting. Just to be clear.

None

[pen] I think the chickens would definitely look better in a hutch than in posh underwear.

bantam waits

[penelope] I went all fickle, ran off with a drummer in a folk-rock band and as I recall, the posh underwear was quite unnecessary. hehehehe.

None

There must be some joke about both drummers and chickens having drumsticks . . . .

o f*ck

My colleague has just accepted another job - we've been running a PR programme together for the past five and a half years and now... eeeeek!!! *sees her holidays disappearing into the mist as the workload piles up while someone else is appointed*

Colleague update

*dribbles juices over the keyboard as a consequence of sucking colleages plums*

rab's juicy innuendo

[rab] Careful you don't stain your white T-shirt.
[penelope] That's a bit of a bummer. So - this PR malarkey? Could any one do it?

Sticky fingers

[Chalky] Yup. Any dipstick can do it. As long as you're smarter than the average, have newspaper experience, can tell the difference between a good story and a bad one and be able to tell the client exactly what you think and hold your temper when they disregard everything you say, be able to turn a phrase or two and don't mind having red pen through your work every now and again.

Closure

Sorry about the brief closure (if anyone noticed it). Just reinstating The Furcation Game at Projoy's request. There'll be no need to close the station for such essential maintenance when I roll out the next major upgrade, sometime in 2008 (subject to Government funding).

Re: Closure

[rab] Ah yes, those long-awaited updates... you will recall how long it took me to finish the code that fixed the "this game is too long" problems, and similar longeurs have affected exactly the kind of admin screens which I suspect you are talking about (well, not strictly true - I did write the necessary admin screens at the same time as String itself, but they've never worked). The urgency of the whole random Lock Cup game creation fiasco thing is making me work rather more rapidly on logins, which is really about minimising the amount of work I have to do in removing the detritus.

Longeurs

[Dunx] At the risk of Checking My Oats, the grand scheme is to move from a flat-file storage system to a mySQL back-end. Then I can use an off-the-shelf frontend (with appropriate security cauliflowers enabled to prevent any old Jack coming along and dropping his spade) to do the tweaks when required. It will also remove a shed-load of concurrency issues and, in principle, provide better data integrity, removing the need for having a+w mods on parts of the server (evil). Currently (i.e. on the [not-]working version) the front page is converted: just need to do the creation page (easy) and the thread page (hard) before it's done. Hence the 2008 ETA.

Chicken Run

Just got back with the chickens - yes they are live and clucking - if rather breathlessly in this heavy atmosphere. I built the hen-house myself and it is extremely satisfying to see that they fit in it. What would I have done if they hadn't?

Penelope

What are RIRs? They are hybrids chosen for free-range hardiness and egg quality. Two Black Rocks and a Speckledy. They are currently pecking at a cabbage we left for them. Must try one of rabs security cauliflowers.

Re poultry vv underwear as bloke attractant, I know what I’d go for but I’d probably be misunderstood.

I said, I said, what are RIRs?

[BtD] RIRs are Rhode Island Reds, the rusty tawny brown chickens. I'm not sure what sort of chicken Foghorn Leghorn was... but I do remember acting as a poultry traffiker and facilitating the transfer of a cock looking very much like him between a schoolfriend's house and my uncle's house. I left him in a cardboard box in the boot of my car for a couple of hours and he was as quiet as a mouse. Unfortunately he livened up a bit after that and attacked my small cousins. I think they probably ate him.
What's a security cauliflower? Is it more or less effective as a bloke attractant than poultry or posh underwear?

security cauliflower

I dunno - try the phrase on rab - he has been using it alot recently - along with spade dropping, a+w and 'Checking My Oats'. Good job I know my RIRs from my Marans.

beguiling cauliflowers

The answer to your last query [pen] is contained in rab's posting, and I quote : 'with appropriate security cauliflowers enabled to prevent any old Jack coming along and dropping his spade' . . . which I guess means less effective.

None

[rab] Arr. In theory, the String code is sufficiently modular to enable just that kind of substitution. In practice, is it bollocks like. I do like the idea of using someone else's admin code, though... I've just started detailing the Lockisseum account management stuff, and the fact that I know exactly what it needs to do does not in any way detract from the fact that it is going to be right pain in the arse to write - yea, e'en unto the point where I'm wondering if I should even bother. Well, I'll certainly keep at it for a wee while yet, since much of the infrastucture that will make this stuff at least practical is already there, but still... it's not fun.

I'm really really glad I'm not trying to do session management though.

Explanitude

[Dunx] Response in 'Oats', hopefully by the time you get up.

[Security cauliflowers] Bob - I think you might be confusing the security cauliflower with the NS4 compatibility dandelion. It's completely unrelated to that strain of cauliflower that drives the HTML sprocket (which in turn uses a fabby plugin strawberry - dead impressed). I think there's an adage somewhere about roses and sweetness being my weakness. <timmy_mallet>Ah-yeah!<timmy_mallet>

Sloth

Is it just me or is anyone else experience sloth on the part of the interwebnet today? I notice this particularly with sites hosted on t'other side of the Atlantic.

blamelewis

Sloth

[rab] Nope, just the usual Gluttony and Lust for me...

NS4 compatibility dandelion

I recently put pinkhat 4.2 on a 'lobster' pc and was hoping to use Pastil or its fruitdriver cbbc on it. (I am also interested in using the orgasmatron 5.7). I tested the setup with a program consisting entirely of 'wangsnappers' and ran it thru both Pengiun and step by step complile and link using f-o-t and then Bernard Mathews 2.2. I am left with an executable which, when run produces no output. Do I need a NS4 compatibility dandelion???

Dandelion

[Bob] No - the dandelion is a server-side, rather than a client-side, bit of horticulture.

In the meantime I notice that it's rather quiet today. Am I the only one working? Not for long though, I hope. I'm thinking... Hmmmm be-er. Hmmmm gar-den. Hmmmm Private Eye crossword so I'll probably bugger off at 5.

None

[BtD] Ignore rab [who simulposted]. I say yes. But watch out for CiSloops which curdle 5.6i interfaces. I found G-ripetool [the citrus version] had more centenniel compatibity.

Work?

Luckily I had to attend a photoshoot on the south coast today to teach someone how to do it, so was revelling (in my darkest shades and straw hat - I kid you not - with thick dark hair, my head absorbs heat like a solar panel) in sunshine and seabreezes while the rest of the company sweltered in our un-airconditioned offices. Then of course, I had to take my student out to lunch. I can recommend a shady table on the Boardwalk overlooking Port Solent with lots of iced sodas :o)

Relaxation

It's Wednesday, it's half past twelve, and it's time for a nice bike ride. At least now I've the little computery doohickey to work so I know how fast I'm going and far I've been.

G-ripetool

Chalky/rab] I can access the client-side horticulture with Chalkys G-ripetool (vv 4.3 downloaded for €1 from www.nerdnest.com). The ability to play FNKY streams was implemented, along with the ability to add pimento directories recursively in addition to individual Conan the Barbarian files. Maestro options were added to the strange-quark-cake menu, and strange-quark-cake now launches the backend process if it is unable to connect to it. Schemas with descriptions were added for the options in HRT, and a number of usability improvements in DUCK. Despite this, my pc is still cak. Am I using the wrong DUCK?

None

Here's a link to www.nerdnest.com.

None

Does anyone ever post lonely hearts ads on here? Can I do it?

lonesome pining

[Dear Darren] penelope expressed some interest in husband-snaffling [see above]. You may need to express your preference, though, for either chicken hutchery or pricy lingerie.

withdrawn from sale

[Chalky] I'm already the item of interest for a young man, although of doubtful husband material. Let's see what Darren has to say anyway!

None

Well, there doesn't seem much point if there's no-one available!

window shopping

[Darren] That sort of attitude won't get you anywhere. C'mon, let's see what you've got to offer!

None

In honour of present company, I'm naming my chickens Penelope, flerdle and Lib (all of whom I'm pretty certain are female - please correct me if I'm wrong). Pen is the Speckledy and flerdle and Lib are both Black Rocks.

Darren] I believe that other lady contibutors include Saskia and Néa – and I'm not sure about snorgle (sorry!). Add to that the many thousands who access this site and are too sensible to post and I'd say go for it ♥.

Arsebiscuits

I had the wisdom a while back to book a train journey passing through Birmingham for today. According to the nationalrail website, the first leg of my journey will be avoiding the station I want to get on at. I tried calling Virgin to ask them what to do instead, and they put me onto the rail enquiry "helpline" who said they didn't know that that train wasn't running and what I should do instead...

National Snail

rab] Is this the usual B'ham New Street/Moor Street/Snow Hill cock-up?

chicken fancier

[BtD] I am indeed honoured. And it has casued a giggle around the office :o). I bet I lay the first egg!

Train Pain

I've found in the past that if you phone a rail enquiry helpline more than once and ask the same question, you'll get different train times and fare prices.

Egg Betting

[BtD] I'm putting my virtual money on flerdle for first egg. Can we have a photo of the three lovely ladies?

Let the train cause the pain

[BtD] Don't think so. Occasionally Virgin Trains think they can get away with not stopping at minor stations like Manchester Piccadilly. [Boolbar] I'm going to try again later. At first I wondered if I'd got one of these outsourced Indian or Taiwanese call centres, but it turned out the chap I was speaking to had a Geordie accent. I feel slightly bad about talking to him. In very simple sentences. Just to make sure. My query was understood.

Chick-chicken

[BtD] I have met all three of your chickens' namesakes and despite not having conducted a full medical examination, can assert with reasonable probability that all are female.

Rail or derail

What the heck are you lot complaining about - we've got a rail infrastructure that looks like it's totally *u****, even without Virgin involvement - which I suppose means I should say that it's immaculate? I guess that does not make a lot of sense unless you are half pickled - but I'm sure you will get the drift.

Rack and Ruin

[Dujon] Whence do you hail?

Lonely hearts

♥	♥	♥	♥	♥	♥	♥	♥
♥	Incredibly amusing male Crescenteer seeks similar, except for the male bit, for initial slightly-awkward conversation with a view to extended hugging sessions. I'm mid-20s, in the south-east, own business, overweight. What more could you possibly want? So, if you're a female Crescenteer from anywhere who is still reading, drop me a line at the phonetic address vee em gee ess ee dee eye @ geocities.com. If early games go well, shunting and straddling may be introduced at a later stage.						♥
♥	♥	♥	♥	♥	♥	♥	♥

email

Dammit, that shouldn't be geocities.com, but msn.com. (Treat this as an intelligence test!)

Commercial venture

Did I tell you it's 36p per word + VAT + P&P ?

not a bloke

[BtD] I'm a girly. And I'm sure that snorgle will confirm that she is. There's a lot of it about.

I can name that chicken in three clucks!

[BtD] You'll have to get more hens to keep up with all these girlies.

commercial vulture

[rab] yohard-hearted so-and-so - it should be a free service! Wouldn't you like to be shopping for a new hat (a la Cilla) to wear at the first Mornington Wedding?

oops

sp/yo/you space*

Gaah?

What's next? Who Wants To Marry A Crescenter?

The Bantam Page

I'll do what I can for chicken photos - may take a day or so because I'm an analogue camera user. In the meantime the first egg sweepstakes are:
Penelope: Penelope
flerdle: Boolbar
Lib:None as yet. br>
Disclaimer. Eggs may be delayed by a few weeks due to youth of chickens (18 weeks) and/or method of husbandry (as natural as possible). And Bob the dog will not bear the responsibility for any gambling debts.

Hmmmm

I think I'm honoured.... All the best with the chooks, BtD. I think I would really need to be an Australorp though. But I suppose a Black Rock is ok...

None

[rab] Should you rename this "The Bantam Page"??

Eggy

[Bob] Stick my name on Lib's egg. I'm sure she'll be thrilled :)

[penelope] That's what I need the money for, of course.

In actual fact I have considered setting up a totally free dating site, as it does seem rather mercenary for one to profit from other people's loneliness (or, indeed, vice versa). However there are two unresolved difficulties. Firstly: how do you filter people so that those who sign up are reasonably serious, responsible and have sufficient wit to woo and intelligence to recognise a parking meter when it slaps them across the forehead? I wondered whether to have some sort of off-the-wall questionaire where it's not so much the answers given that determine whether you are accepted into the fold or not, but whether you even attempt to answer them. I'm not sure I'd have the wherewithall to design such a thing. Secondly, and perhaps more seriously, I wouldn't wish to be held responsible if things went wrong...

flerdle chook

Thanks rab - any one else wishing to place a bet?

flerdle] With the fear that I may be misinterpreted again, the Black Rock is a very attractive bird (better - in my opinion - than the Australorp). As you will see when the photos arrive.

Lonely Tarts Club

I feel this could be the chance to indulge in a nice Blind Date-themed game. Not exactly how sure it should work, but perhaps it could end up, like a Shakespeare comedy, by pairing up all extraneous Crescenters each with their ideal partner (Blob with Raak, CdM with st d and so on).

Hearty loons

I had a similar idea. Players submit Lonely Hearts ads under a pseudonym and other have to guess their online identities.

None

other/others

None

and now that York is truly gone (sob) couldn't we add a few more games?

New games

There's been a spare slot at Orange for a couple of weeks now - can't see any reason to open the floodgates.

Madeira / !York

If !York is caput - any chance of at least resurrecting the Encyclopaedia Morningtonia on one of the surviving sites ? I believe fairly recent tarballs exist, do they not ?

Buzz

As may be apparant from some of the foregoing, I'm off away shortly to catch a train. Maybe it's the one I'm booked to travel on, maybe not. One part of the National Rail website says the intended train is not calling at Manchester; another part says it has already reached Preston and is heading towards Manchester as planned (which I find hard to believe - it would be about 30minutes early in that case...). The upshot of this is that although I expect to be near a phoneline over the weekend, or possibly even a broadband antelope, I might not be on hand to apply lint to grazed knees and the like.

En-cyclops

I have a grand plan - maybe I'll start work on it at the weekend - to code up some sort of collaborative web-based encyclopaedic buzzard (a bit like a wikipedia, or h2g2, but not, cos that's not the point) into which Morningtonia would fit quite nicely, and be updated by the community. Good idea? (ETA 3062)

wikipedia

The NS4 compatibility dandelion or Chalkys G-ripetool should do the trick ;o)

BillowBap Reminder

Don't forget to use Snudgen Inserts, or the eng-wardrobe will be left open to SNAX.

Yorkishness

[BtD] rab speaks truth, as ever. [Blob] Publishing !York's archives is one thing on my list to do. It might happen alongside the account stuff I was wibbling about earlier on.

Not killed anyone yet....

[BtD] Thanks for naming the chick after me (and we're both shropshire lasses, so is kinda nice!), its the nicest thing anyone has done for me today. (Have decided that being a doctor is no fun!)

[All] As well as having Encyclopedia Morningtonia here can we get some players profiles too? There's so many of you I know nothing about (not having been around for long).

[rab] I can't get to orange (stupid random firewall) so I'd also bid for raising the game limit here (especially as the cryptic discussion is not really a game, as such).

[Darren] Nice advert. Shame I'm not really eligible!

Delphic Utterances

Now might also be a good time to mention, in an "I-can't-do-anything-to-help-but-I'm-going-to-bleat-about-it-anyway" sort of a way, that I don't believe there is yet a solution for what will happen to the Delphi archive, with the result we may lose a bit of our history.

None

[Projoy] I can't help with the Delphi archive because I do not have a copy.

you mean this doesn't help, Lib?

profiles

http://www.geocities.com/pantsmcprofiles/profiles.html

Player profiles from PantsMC

Aunty Pode

[rab] If flerdle's comment about 'chooks' is any indication, I'm with her, but about 700 miles further south if her profile is accurate in respect of geography. To give a straight answer - near Sydney, Australia.

Arrival

Wow - I made it. Don't know how, given that the first leg of the journey was off, and the carriage I was booked on was missing from the second leg of the journey. My hostess pointed at a computer last night and said "broadband" which I've taken as an invitation to use it. It's quite fast (first experience of the same) tho' XP is horrible.

[Lib] Maybe that can be arranged.

[Dujon] I've never experienced any kind of antipodean transportation contrivance, so I shall shut up :)

IE on XP

So can anyone explain to me how it is that the world's richest and most powerful software company which produces what I understand to be the market leading in web browsers can't get transparant PNGs to display properly? I'll have to see if I can tweak the graphics to sort this situation out. But really...

None

s/leading/leader/.

Chicken update

Day 3. No eggs yet. Chickens beginning to explore their new home although still reluctant to use their ramp and had to be forcibly evicted this morning. Penelope has the most adventurous spirit and eats everything you give her, flerdle is the gentlest, yet seems to be top of the pecking order and is respected by the other two. Lib is the naughty one. Likes to steal food. All enjoyed a good dust-bath yesterday evening.

Dee Twintysivin

[BtD] Set up a live video stream and it'll be just like Big Brother - only more interesting.

chick-watch

Fascinating. Absolutely fascinating. *brushes dust out of hair*

Great Hentertainment

If they don't want to use their ramp, do you have to put them to bed as well?

*worries about flerdle*

A little bit of logical analysis reveals the following:
1. Penelope eats everything you give her.
B. Lib steals food.
I conclude, therefore, that Lib must be stealing this food from flerdle. This conjecture is reinforced by the information that flerdle is the gentle one. What use is respect, if she is going to end up starving to death?

buckets of tea

I enjoyed the banter on cryptic croswords, as I am one of the worlds most dense when it comes to working them out. So it was useful reading all your hints on definitions and clues. Since last Friday whilst on Broad Haven beach, I've dabbled and its been most rewarding, although not getting anywhere completing any I feel happy with my 5 or 6 words. The cryptic game is a great idea, some of the answers are beyond me even with the explanation, just put it down to too many years of 'quick' crosswords.
Which brings me to Celebdaq I go away for the best part of a week with no acess to my pc and I end up on top... makes note to go on leave again and pencils in last two weeks of August.
BtD]We're having a barbie on Sunday, is it too late to put an order in for a couple of drumsticks?

None

Inkspot] No such cluck. But I know a really good organic and free-range farm you could try.

Cryticians

[Inkspot] Keep going with those cryptics: getting started is always the hardest part. Once you've got a few letters - especially initial letters - then more will follow.

*peep*

[Dujon] Yes, I'm up here, where it's nice and warm, a bit cloudy (oh, and dark, being night time and all). We really should organise an antipodean not-pilg in the next few months - there's at least 5 of us around the place. Sydney is quite central...

Hmmm, I'm hungry... *wanders off in search of munchies*

Strailian geography

[flerdle] Wouldn't Alice Springs be more central?

Out in the middle of bl**dy nowhere, mate

[Raak] The population of Australia is distributed like a thin smear of vegemite along the east and south-east coast. And since I'm in Brisso, Dujon and Kathryn are in Sydney, PaulWay is in Canberra, and I am under the impression, from "Advice" on MCiOS that there is a RavenBlack somewhere around here - but I may be wrong about that - Sydney would be the place to meet. Howaboutit?

Marmite

And very thin ~~marmite~~ vegemite it is too - (have a look at this table).
That's taken from the rather excellent Wikipedia

It's even worse than you thought...

And only 1% of the area of Australia has 84% of the population in it, according to this.

.... and ...

And 61% of the population lives in just the big five cities - which must account for a tiny percentage of the national area.

sex and chickens

I am, indeed, female. I also do not have a hen named after me. I will survive.

making up

snorgle] I am sorry - I've only got three chickens. However, if one goes broody, I'll be getting some fertile eggs for it to sit on and will keep at least 1 female progeny. Your name will be first on the list.

Day 4: They've learnt how to use the chicken ramp. Penelope made a bid for escape but was easily coaxed back with some parsley. The henhouse-mates are getting on well so it is unlikley that any will be put up for eviction. The sweepstake for the first egg is still open, so far it is:
Penelope: Penelope
flerdle: Boolbar
Lib: rab

chickens

Ok, I'll vote for flerdle. If she's the top of the pecking order, maybe she'll lay first. I don't know much about hens - do they normally lay unfertilised eggs every day, or every few days?
BTW - my last apropos brought up some interesting google hits..

Big Clucker 2003

It's like some mad Big Brother inversion. When will the humans for the chickens to look after be arriving?

This is Big Clucker

Nik] I'm already here! snorgle] Number of eggs depends on variety of chicken. Black Rocks and Speckledys lay about 280 (unfertilised) eggs per year, so I'll have about 16 eggs a week over the next three years. Black Rocks lay particularly high quality eggs and as the hens are being reared out doors on grass and natural feed (no egg colourant) I'm hoping the yolks will be bright orange rather than mass produced anaemic yellow. The most fantastic sponge cake I've ever tasted was baked with eggs from a friends farm and it was a wonderful golden colour because of the quality of the eggs.

Teach my grandmother to lay eggs ...

[BtD] If they're on grass do make sure they have access to plenty of grit somewhere, or else their eggs will have brittle and/or thin shells and may well smash "on delivery" so to speak.

Poulty husbandry

We used to have chickens until foxes ripped them to shreds. They would each lay an egg a day until we were so sick of eggs we didn't know what to do with them. I remember that on one occasion one of them didn't eat enough grit, and it produced eggs that weren't brittle so much as wobbly. Truly revolting, and a splendid thing to view at an impressionable age.

Wibbly wobbly ?

[Bm] Please do define "wobbly".

True grit

Blob/Breadmaster] Thanks, job done. They've got oyster shell (for calcium - shell strength) and grit which helps digestion (it grinds their food up. They also get a supplement of layers pellets containing calcium too. I've been reading an 18th Century book on animal husbandry and they used to bake and grind up eggshell and feed it back to the chickens. I’m fairly sure that this is now against the law (fear over build-up of pathogens and salmonella being possible reasons for this). The book (Cottage Economy by William Corbett) is full of grand ideas such as harvesting nettles and drying them for winter feed. Nettles are stacked with nutrients and we’ve got plenty of them so I’m going to try that one. As for foxes, I'm pretty sure these chickens are safe - hedgehogs may be more of a threat (they eat alive anything they catch). The run is enclosed, our garden has a 6 foot fence (usually adequate to ensure fox exclusion on its' own) and although the chicks are thick, they have learned to go in to their house at night. I've designed it so that the run is raised to cover the pop-hole, keeping them secure.
Still no eggs by the way. Chicken photos with Boolbar for uploading (I have no website).

Chick-o-vision

We want WebCams!

You can be sure of Shell

I have friends who have kept chickens for years and have always baked the shells to add as grit. I think it's only illegal if you're taking part in a commercial enterprise - ie selling the eggs, in which case you have to have them salmonella-tested anyway. I doubt any salmonella bacterium would survive the heat and desiccation of baking. But in the general view that cannibalism is a bad thing, I think you're better off not doing it. And 'define wobbly'? Well, I've seen an egg like this... it is egg-shaped, but instead of shell there's just a thick membrane - imagine a balloon full of water but not-quite-fully extended. Tasted fine though.

It had to be said....

Euwwww!

wobbly bobbly

Aha - a sort-of shellless egg. I see. Yughk. Though excellent for water-bomb (o.k. egg-bomb) fights ! Ha ha ! The yolk's on you !

Thin skinned

Funny that this subject should rear it's head. I boiled an egg the other night - in the fond hope of having a curried egg sandwich - and deliberately boiled it for 6 minutes. I had not eaten for around 48 hours and was quite looking forward to the feast. I left it in cool water for a couple of minutes, which is my usual ploy to avoid blistered fingers, and then grabbed it with the intent of stripping the thing naked. Now, I was half tickled at the time, but, when it simply collapsed in my hand in an approximation of the childrens' goo stuff that one sees advertised, I threw it in the general direction of the compost bin. Luckily my aim was straight (not bad from 6 feet into a 4" x 4" container). My wife was not impressed! I now have to search my locality to find someone who grows roses which I can nick. So, BTD, I look forward to your contributions on chicken (whoops, sorry, flerdle, chook) husbandry. I'd love to have a few banging around in the back yard but I suspect that, apart from local council regulations, my two cats might just have a say in that.

And again

EUWWWWW!

Lovely birds.

[BtD] I am unable to upload photos at work, but will do so tonight.

Dujon mustard

Dujon]:o) What rotten cluck! I'll be very happy to supply you with fresh eggs if I ever make it down-under or if someone invents a way of sending food as email attachments.
Cats are an endangered species here in Warwickshire. I witnessed a Buzzard attack on our own cat a year or so ago. The local Buzzard population is booming and There are reports in local papers of missing or mauled moggies. The chickens, however are safe. I hope. I think.
Boolbar] Yipee! And thank you.

Safe chickens

They may be safe, but I'll have to be careful.

Being buzzed ...

[BtD] Where abouts in Warks ? I used to live on the Staffs / Warks border, and spent many a happy day driving around the county.
We've started to get buzzards occasionally in & around Tring - (whereas I'd not seen one there for the previous fifteen years). I also saw a kite (of the feathered variety) fly over our house last year - I think it was just on a recky mission coz. I've not seen one since. But they're certainly spreading their territory from the Stokenchurch area northwards - loads round Thame now.

The Birds

[BtD] I like the picture caption at the top of that report :"The cyclist is planning to protect herself from attacks". Looking at the picture I assume that the cyclist is planning to disguise herself as a buzzard.

evil_edna

Who put the red in Celebdaq? err... no, that doesn't work... whatever

*finds all sorts of interesting things crawling around on the trading floor* OMG - I had completely forgotten I was supposed to be making money.

evil_edna

absent mindedness

*cackle*

elevation, elevation, elevation

You remember I told you my colleague was leaving? The boss and I just went out for lunch and a chat. We're restructuring... I get to be manager, get a pay rise etc etc...YAY!!!!

Yey!!

[pen] First you get a hen named after you, and now this. Yey!

promoting

[pen] Yay! That's excellent. Well done. Hope its a significant one!

modesty...

[Lib] 'Kin 'ell. I've only just thought about that. It's 20%!!!

Pen buys the next round

Yay! Well done! However, your namesake hasn't layed an egg yet.

egg-nog , anyone?

I'll admit I'm chuffed to bits. What's more, I may just be able to flog my tent (sleeps four, dark green tunnel tent, used once) to my soon-to-be-ex colleague who has snatched not only a hot-air balloon ride in the Northampton Balloon Festival on Friday, but also a last-minute ticket to the Stafford V Festival this weekend. Jammy sandwiches, virtual beers, Pimms and shandies all round. Unfortunately, unless BobTD starts squeezing chickens' heads, there's no egg-nog.

Yay!

[pen] Congrats!

Defining wobbly

Yes, what Penelope said. I can't believe she actually ate the thing though. [BtD] Nettles are great. They're terribly healthy. The Victorians would sell them at market as a vegetable. I used to pick and eat them frequently, partly for my obsessive healthy eating drive and partly because I was incredibly poor. You have to pick them as they are growing, not when they're old and raggedy late in the season, and you pick just the top four leaves. This means that you have to pick an awful lot to get a decent quantity. Then the best thing to do with them is steam them. They cook extremely quickly. You might think you would have to cook them for ages to kill the sting, but in fact the sting goes almost instantly, so you can treat them essentially as spinach. They taste similar but with a pleasant velvety sort of texture.

joining in the back-slapping and hoping for a pimms

Superb skills penelope. Sounds as though the promotion is well deserved. Hope the new responsibilities won't gobble up your 'online chief crescentess' time, though.

Whoops!

Forgot to add my congratulations. Well done, pen. [Chalky] I thought one of the management skills is "delegation" which, as I understand it, could be used to free up plenty of time for the same.

Delegates

[rab] Better that than delegating someone else to play, certainly.

Orangeless

Cross-posting of course, but a note for Orange MC players - the server which hosts Orange will be down for repairs at some time between 4:30pm and 7:30pm ET today (that's 21:30-00:30 BST). The outage should be for 20-60 minutes, and is to replace a broken CPU. Hopefully Orange will be a bit less sluggish afterwards, too.

Re: Orangeless

It's back. Not that it went away for long in the end.

A delegation of minions

[rab] Good point about delegating - and delegating someone to make moves on my behalf (especially in MC where you know my skills don't shine) has given me an idea. I'm going to be involved in the interviewing for the underling position(s) [tbc], so maybe I could ask the applicants to make a move in one of the games here, then you can all judge whether they deserve the job or not!! Whaddya think guys???!!! Do I have the skills to be a manager or not, eh? :o)

Filet Minions

Have a care before introducing professional colleagues to MC before you know them well. For one thing it gets harder to post cross rants about the bastards in the office in the Advice game.

Filet-o-Fish

[pen] I suggest a game of 'Straight face'.

pokered

[rab] Straight face? I guess it means anything but, but would you explain? :o)

Delegat-hen

[pen] Get BtD to stick a tube map in the hen-house. When pen-the-hen pecks at a station, that's your move!
[BtD] Did you get my email(s)? Hen pics are online!

Beef swellington

[pen] On the contrary. The aim of the game is to maintain a straight face while your opponent says things to bring this state of affairs to en end.

Meanwhile I'm trying to cancel my contract with the Carphone Warehouse. If I have to listen to Connected being played down a tinny old phone one more time...

Henpics

[Bb] url?

Me again!

It's amazing how long it takes for a salesperson to realise that the reason you want to buy something from elsewhere is that their opponents give a better deal and nothing they can offer matches up...

url

BtD is somewhat busy - so using some left over bits of HTML and sticky backed plastic, may I present . . . Big Clucker!

Geoshity

Ignore those pesky errors that pop-up. Geocities is the only upload place I can access at work - and they bung their own code on top.

chick flicks

[Boolbar] No pesky errors when I looked. Just three surprisingly pretty hens in a very clean place. Penelope's obviously a heart breaker, Flerdle looks mischievous and Lib rather enigmatic. So now we've had the individual mugshots, how about panning back so we can view the whole Big Clucker House and its environs?

slipping up a bit

[Boolbar] Sorry, I realised after I posted that you are the technical chief who enables the picture viewing. My camera positioning instructions should have been directed at Bob the Dog, the producer of the show.

Long distance chickcheck

Chalky] Acknowledged. As Boolbar says, I'm not at home at the moment, but I will try to upload a floor plan and more photos. Saskia is looking after the chickens while I'm away, she says they are being very good girls. No eggs yet. I'm not worried about the lack of eggs because the chooks are still very young and need to settle in a bit more. However, Penelope is looking particularly perky and her wattle appears to be turning red. Whatever that means.

wattling daubs

I know *exactly* what it means but I'm darned if I'm telling you.

blamelewis

a toast

[pen] Many congrats, both on your chicken namesaking and the promotion. I suggest you ask prospective employees one of two questions. 1) Would they straddle or strile in a half closed farkle situation if blue tokens were wild?, and 2) What's a good rhyme for "chihuahua"?

None

[blamelewis] Ah, the old trick question! [Hidden Text]You can't have a half closed farkle situation when blue tokens are wild, unless the blue tokens became wild after the half closed farkle situation arose. In this second case both straddles and striles are impossible until the farkle is fully closed. See Ackerman's thesis on half-closed farkles, a good bed-time read.[/Hidden Text]

None

F*ck. I would have fallen for that one.

Cickcheck

Day 9: Flerdle has grown in my absence and is now bigger than Penelope. Lib and Pen are probably about the same size now. Chickens were freaked out by a glider that went over our house, Pen making a dash for cover whilst Lib and flerdle tilted their heads this way and that in an endearingly quizzical fashion. All chicken eating well, they seem to like carrot - fed them the dried head of a sunflower yesterday - but they didn't really get the hang of it and the seeds had to be pulled out for them. At about nine o'clock, they tramped up their little ramp and waited for me to lock the pop-hole. They are such good girls!
Day 10: Still no eggs. Estimated (with help of a calendar) that first egg may appear on 26th August (Day 21), although a friend of mine suggests that they won’t really get going until mid Sept. I am very busy at the moment, but I will try and draw up a plan of living quarters and maybe upload it to a Big Clucker website (which for me is a big step, never having done anything more adventurous with HTML than this!) Looking for reasonably priced no-ad site host. Any suggestions?

chuckyweb

There are several sites like this one which try to recommend free site hosts. As they say, free sites usually come with little or no help and most have annoying adverts/pop-ups. I've used Vispa for 2 years now and have had no problems (except in the first week when they were down for a day). Their on-line help was adequate for my needs. There must be many other free ad-free site hosts out there, some of which may allow you to have your own webby addy (like www.bigclucker.com instead of www.bigclucker.isphostname.com).

Slooooowwww....

BTW, is it generally half-slow on the internet today - I can't get into MCiOS or eBay (due to timeouts) but this site is speedy.

None

. . . and no sooner do I type that, when MCiOS springs back into view. eBay is still way too slow though.

Again!

Ebay is now OK. Hmmm, it seems the moment I post something here, it ceases to be true.
Gosh, I am lacking in money.

living on air

Glad flerdle is doing so well. Have been at home sick for last two days, able to do a little work remotely, but generally bleurgh. *totters back to bed for a while*

sickbay

*sends flerdle a mug of virtual hot chocolate and best wishes for a speedy recovery*

Thos

Hennery

It seems to me that after all this chicken related discussion, this should be renamed the Bantam Page!

Eggstraordinary

[Thos] Much as I hate to break it to you...

Thos

crack'd

[Rab] How complimentary to have one's ideas confirmed as good ones prior to having them!

Reasonable, ad-free hosting

[BtD] I think I could probably be persuaded quite easily.

None

Although image-heavy pages (like the one blob presented) would probably kill my connection quite quickly, so somewhere with more bandwidth might be better.

Bantam?

[Thos, rab] "Sorry, old man, we don't understand your bantam!"

Blowing trumpets

For the second time, Dujon has hit the high point of Celbdaq - don't worry, fans, at 0600 BST this will change. Disappears back into left field chanting "percentages, money, percentages ..."

None

Have made a surprising discovery. Chickens love grapes. And porridge. Not mixed.

oooooh, hot chocolate!

[pen] Thanks, much appreciated. Am still not well, and not particularly enheartened by a visitor yesterday saying "Oh, I had that for six weeks" :-o

But that didn't stop me from going to the football today (my second AFL match, and why complain when someone shouts you? Just rug up warm); hopefully some really nice photos... telephoto gooooooood.

Few words

Sorry folks. Mini Cheddars. Bit confused. Two words? Really, penelope. Wrong game!

Oof!

I've been kneecapped!

Chopping

[rab] You and several others by the looks of it. Bravo all. I'm finding it tough to make any headway this time round, but I'm not bitter . . .

But what about the chooks?

Ooooh, strawberries have started to come into season here! Yay!!!
[penelope] I don't see the problem there. Oh, and your hot chocolate remedy works a treat.

I'm back!

...and looking forward to regular posting!

Advance notice

I've just ordered new disks, one of which is for the web server. At the same time as moving to a new disk, I'll be taking the opportunity to upgrade to newer versions of the OS and web server.

This is the first of 3 or 4 planned outages during the remainder of this year, and will incur the largest downtime - I hope to keep it under 24 hours but promise nothing. If anyone has a problem with the machine being down on a particular day this week, let me know, either here, or by email to an address that should be fairly obvious. If I don't forget entirely, I'll point out the cause for outage at MCiOS and/or Orange at the time.

As an aside, the other planned upgrades are: a UPS, more RAM, and yet another disk.

On another note entirely; Rab - it's really quite annoying that the HTML checker insists on apostrophe pairs inside title="". Still, I guess that's what ' is for; I'm giving up my contractions for nothing or no-one. Nothing or no-one!

Indeed

[Nik] Point taken - I'll have a look at the HTML checker and see if I can get it doing something more sensible viz the quotes. Will you be upgrading MySQL too? Not that - I think - I need any of the features of the newer version when I finally upgrade, but just curious.

Also...

[Nik] Obviously if you drop me a line indicating when it'll go down, I'll arrange for a backup to be made of the game data at that point. I'm away for the bank holiday weekend, but with sufficient warning can set up a cron job to do the business, so it's irrelevant really.

Calm down!

What are you saying, like? Don't trust me to not destroy all the data, like? Eh? Eh? A benefit of switching disks and installing fresh is that the current disk won't be modified at all during the process, so data should be safe, although I'll be dumping /etc, /home, /var and /usr to CD anyway (a slightly neater variation of which will become a weekly backup to CDRW). I might go to Apache 2 and Mysql 4; I'll have a look at their feature lists and see if it's worth the risk.

Just A Minute - 2003-Aug-11

In a complete change of subject, did anyone catch last week's Just A Minute? What the hell were they saying about celebrity colonic irrigations?

JAM Last Week

[Dr Q] Which bit? "I'm A Celebrity, Get It Out Of Here"?

Getting Nik's back up

[Nik] Well - I didn't anticipate any loss of data but I never thought having too many backups was ever a problem! I'm using MySQL 4.0.12 here without difficulties. The main bonus is subqueries (not that I use these at the moment) but there is a slight difference in the way certain priveliges work, so you might find yourself saddled with some additional admin overhead if you were to upgrade. I know nothing of apache 2 - last I heard it was "experimental" which I understand to be a euphemism for "best avoided".

Toxic celebs

[DrQ] The JAM reference: IIRC, around the time of the Aussie Jungle Japes, a group of D list celebs 'volunteered' [paid obscene amounts of money] to go abroad for a filmed Celebrity Detox Week [Ch4?]. Along with most of the viewing nation, I didn't watch it but in an effort to generate interest, the red top coverage glorified in the contents of alleged celebs bowels after CI. I'm told it was a load of sh*te and believe none of them have worked since.

Ding! Dong!

The disks is here! Expect angrycake.com to fall off the world in approximately not too long.

*pulls the big red shutdown lever*

Right I'll close the games so as not to confuse everyone...

ACME Maintenance Squad

*yanks big red lever*

*big red lever clatters to floor*

*ACME Maintenance Squad drives off faster than you can say 'Spare any change?'*

Mr FIXIT

*proffers new red lever*

What cowboy did this, eh? Me you say??

Good to be back

As you can see I've tightened a few screws here and there. If you notice any bugs, tell me.

Woo-hoo!

Our long international nightmare is over -- MC5 is back! Well done, rab & Nik.

Minor layout bug

[rab] See Mini Cheddars for an example -- the last word before an <hr> gets right-shifted.

Oh

Not on my browser it doesn't... probably just a small tweakette required somewhere. ETF March 37th 2008.

grrr

It was justified text wot woz doing it. Now disabled which is a shame cos where it worked I quite liked it.

Jubilation

Welcome back, Rab!

It's back! It's new improved bluey whiteness! Horrah!

Layout bug

It was doing it on mine (Mozilla Firebird 0.6/Linux), which turned out to be a pain because I'm running it at 1600x1200 with small fonts, which required me to shift my eyes a relatively long distance....

Aye, Cone

[rab] Nice new look - particularly fond of the "Stance" heading (Len Ganley, anyone?). I'm afraid I find the icons a little murky, though... there doesn't seem to be enough contrast between the grey background and the ochre/blue foreground. Indeed, I cannot distinguish them at all using peripheral vision (which slows down mouse navigation). Maybe this looks better on your PowerBook LCD, but on my PC CRT it looks grey and blobby (haven't connected my iBook to the net for four days, so don't know how it looks there).

Bluey whiteness

Yea! Its back and its prettier! Well done all concerned.

Current score:
Penelope: 3 eggs
flerdle: 1 egg
Lib: 1 egg

What a fantastic start there from Penelope.

hmmmm

I actually find this font slower to read. Just so you know.

ooooh

It seems to look different at work... hmmmm

Hokey-cokey

[Dunx] I agree with you about the murkiness of the icons. They were designed in a dark room on an LCD display, and I'm looking at them on a CRT right now. I might apply some transformations to them later.

[flerdle] I used to use your browser default font, but now have requested a sans-serif one. In principle you can override it, but in practice it might be more sensible to go back to the browser default.

[all] Keep your opinions rolling in.

blamelewis

New look

Love the refit - although I agree with Dunx that the buttons are murky. But a really nice feel to the site now.

[rab] Well, the buttons look better on my iBook screen! Something I will certainly need to remember next time I do some graphic design work... there is something in the OSX settings panel somewhere to change the colour balance to match that of a CRT; don't know if that would help.

Chook update

Penelope: 4
flerdle: 1
Lib: 1

Go for it Penelope! (Perhaps it was the promotion wot done it).

Henquiry

How can you tell who laid which egg?

design

Very nice, although the transparencies still aren't displaying properly under IE.

Transparently

[Projoy] That's not my fault. OK, so it is my fault that I insist on using those new-fangled PNGs rather than the old-school GIFs. I think I know of a workaround, but will be fiddly to apply.

Hey! It's working!

I'm sitting in the kitchen, with not a wire in sight, posting this. Hurrah!

Range

[rab] Sounds like you get better range than I do/did. What base station are you using?

Big range in the kitchen

[Dunx] I suspect it's because I live in a smaller house than you do :) For the record it's a LinkSys Wireless Ether-G, or similar (the one that's a four-port ethernet hub and a wireless access point). It's in the next room, I would guess about 10m, with a wall and a half in between.

Four bars, though, even on a Titanium-clad patlop.

Titanium-clad patlop

Would you like to borrow my NS4 compatibility dandelion for that?

Egg Identity

Boolbar] Two ways to identify egg layers - a sensitive art!
1. We know that a chicken is about to lay because she gets all busy looking for somewhere to go. They lay inside the chicken house ('cos they like privacy) so we see them go in. The only confusion could occur if they lay at night or if we get flerdle and Lib mixed up.
2. Egg colour. As a chicken gets into laying, her first eggs will be small and pale. Libs, being the last to start are small and light brown and flerdles are medium and tan. Pen, being a different variety, lays speckly eggs.

font fickleness

[rab] What font are you using? I wonder why it looks different at work. I've worked out what the trouble with speed of reading is - the letters in this font are quite crowded (upright strokes are close together, and overall the space between letters is small) and rounded letters like p, g, u, d are quite large, in comparison, and quite squarish, which makes them more difficult to distinguish quickly. I'm not advocating a return to serif, just noticing things about whatever it is you've chosen. I will cope.

Font affront

[flerdle] I ask for 'sans-serif'. You may be able to change your browser's default sans-serif font. I could specify 'helvetica' which might make more sense, but I'd need to check my CSS book (which is at home) to find out how to do it properly.

The Great Egg Race

Lovely. I've just had me summer holidays - two days in Lincs with my Mum. I'm back home, there was a queue on the M25 and it's raining. What's worse, now I have to empty the vacuum cleaner with all the sucked-up spiders in it. :o(

Love nest

[penelope] Tricky. One could imagine them all jumbled up inside the cylinder and thinking 'as we're stuck in here for a while - why not?' - then mating like fury so when you do the emptying bit, a whole new generation of spiderlets bent on evil revenge, burst forth with the taunting cry 'ner ner ne ner ner' . . .

[pen] More likely the spiders nuked it out and ate one another so now there is one single spider left - a very LARGE spider with LONG legs.

'racnids

Pen] Just stick 'em in a bag and send 'em to me. Chickens love spiders. And woodlice.
Re: Font. I dunno about anyone else but I like this font more than the previous one.

the lesser of two weevils

[BtD] I would gladly send you all my spiders. For some reason (too embarrassig to go into here... well OK, he was a boyfriend of mine a long, long time ago), we 've always called woodlice 'jonathans'. And I have lots under all the plant pots in the garden. Can I borrow your chickens for a couple of days?

Guess what time it is?

Having decided to not rebuild the server again, I'll be taking it down for ten minutes later (this evening, tomorrow, never) to figure out what sort of RAM I need, and also to take out the old disk and screw the new one in. This process should be painless, requiring no software changes at all.

While I remember

I'm going away tomorrow (Sun 31st) for just under a fortnight. I may have sporadic connectivity from there but one can't really rely on it.

Have a good one. I'll try not to ruin everything in the mean time.

Celebdaq Update

Congrats in advance to Uncle Korky for his upcoming first kneecapping.

Ahnold is now over £200/share with no end in sight. Even Becks couldn't top that.

Spiders

[penelope] But why did you suck them up in the first place? Spiders are on our side!

Boris

[Breadmaster] I embarked on a spider-killing spree after being dumped. It seemed like a good idea at the time.

Arachnids

penelope you are CRUEL,
I am sure that flerdle will back me up here - I get spiders in the house, in summertime mainly, which are 6" to 8" across the legs and varied in body size - some are an inch or two. Whilst I detest spiders - in fact the larger ones give me the heebie jeebies - I catch them and toss them outside. So, in future, behave yourself! "Four legs is better than two..." or was that something else? ... :-)

Hairy legs

[Dujon] Sounds like you've got some Huntsmans. Huntsmen. Whatever. Greeaat big black hairy ones. I've only seen them to about 4 to 5 inches across, managed to trap one in the bathroom at a former house under a plastic container - the tok of it against the sides was fairly alarming, and spiders don't really worry me. I put it outside.

[Dujon, again] Are you in Sydney?

Why I ask, is...

Cross-posting alert to people south of the equator: See "To be a Pilgrim" here.

spiders

Having Charlotte's Web read to me at a young age has led to a life-long, well, liking if not loving of spiders; so long as they're on their webs I don't really mind. We had one on the inside of our kitchen window and we put up a sign and my mother insisted on calling it Fred. A stupid lodger murdered it in an overly helpful cleaning frenzy, which also involved her throwing out numerous useful items..

It is back

Have not been able to access this site due to very slow (interrupted) download. Anyone else had this problem?
Dujon/flerdle] Chickens would probably love big spiders too. Would they travel well by air?
Pen] Saskia reminded me of something I've now put in 'The Beige Allegro'. Ring any bells?

hrmmm

Probably illegal to export them. You'll just have to selectively breed some over there, I think. Or send your chickens on holidays.

Eight-legged friends

I believe that the huge hairy ones that occasionally hurtle across the living room carpet are called "Wolf Spiders". I really like them and always leave them alone, because they keep the place clean and are rather cute. It may be an urban myth, but I heard that their venom is actually poisonous enough to kill you, but their jaws are too weak to bite through your skin, so they're harmless (unless you let them bite you on a wound, of course). Could this really be true?

Wolfspiderman

Breadmaster] I've never heard that one, but my Dad has been bitten by Wolfspiders many times. He claims it is akin to an ant bite. Congrats on your publication by the way.

Huuuuuuuuge

It seems difficult to get information about the precise toxicology of the spider venom. Or I'm not looking hard enough. No matter. A factsheet about huntsman spiders is here: huntsman. I think up here we tend to call all large black spiders "huntsman" spiders. A factsheet about Australian wolf spiders is here: wolf. The legs seem quite different, and huntsman spiders seem to be larger.

Why can I never prevent myself looking at pages about spiders? I'm going to be creeped out and itchy for hours, now.

Miss Tuffett

There are also Harvestmen which look like spiders but aren't... they're the really skinny, ethereal- and anorexic-looking things.

Cheers to Dr Q with regards to my minor success in Celebdaq. Now I fully understand what happens on a kneecapping. Call me naive, but I never realised that they took all of your existing shares away and you had to start form scratch again. Hmmm... well, as you can imagine, that was a bit of a surprise... On the up-side, I've now got a lovely green wad next to my name. On the downside, I had oodles of Arnie...

When I got kneecapped the first time, I got instantly bored and stopped doing anything on Celebdaq. But that's just me.

celebdaq

I am number one, I am number one, I am number one..(again). I would like to thank Mick Jagger and Stella McCartney for aiding me, (and others for getting kneecapped.) MWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

*peep*

We want more chicken photos!

Chickflicks and goodbooze

fl] Sorry - I have been very busy recently + I still use non-digital technology. Will do what I can. Just to say that the Chickens are thriving, lots of eggs (gorgeous yellow yolks). flerdle made a bid for freedom recently in desperation as she attempted to get at her porridge. When the garden vegetables have stopped and I've dug the ground (late September) I will let the chickens have completely free-range. They will dine on slugs eggs, centipedes, leatherjackets and other destructive pests, fertilising the ground as they go.
Continuing in the Good-Life tradition, I recently tried brewing Honey Beer to an C18 recipe (the chickens ate the mashed hops). It has a 2nd fermentation in the bottle and so every so often there is an explosion in the pantry as a cork pops out. This is no bad thing as I can have a little sip to see how it is progressing. My God it is strong. It is almost revolting, but oddly, once tasted it leaves you wanting more. Probably needs time. Has anyone got any recipes I can use it in if it turns out to be crap?

Honey Beer Gone Wrong

[BtD] I understand that once gone wrong, Honey Beer makes an excellent nappy soaker, paint stripper and fingerprint remover (that's removing fingerprints from your fingers, not from surfaces). I'd wear marigolds if I was you.

celebdaq

I'm still rolling along on the Ahnold bandwagon...right along side the Madonna/Britney Dividend Express. :)

Calling in from Ambleside

This is some really weird font here. Me no understand. Must sort out my CSS on the return. The school is going well but I need to return to listen to a guy from Sunderland explain density functional theory. More dispatches later. ttfn, rab.

Chickens

[Btd] Our neighbour has decided to install some chickens, too. He was banging and sawing pretty much continuously last weekend (while we were unboxing all our gear) and now there are gentle warbly chicken noises coming from his garden. No rooster, fortunately.

chick-chicks

Isn't it odd your neighbour didn't mention it before? "Oh, by the way, I'm getting chickens too!" I don't know, it just seems slightly odd to me.

bok bok bok

[rab] See! See! Not just me
[snorgle] You'll find it was Bob the dog who's Chicken Man.
I currently live in what would be classed as "inner city" (20min walk to the middle of the CBD), but it's quite low density still - blocks of units, but many individual houses. We really only have one person-neighbour (going anticlockwise: church, multistorey carpark, cliff and shop, more shops, neighbour in large house). Some friends have kept chooks (complete with renovated gardens for same), and I did hear about someone with a sheep, up in the hill just a little over. They used to take it for walks, on a leash.

[snorgle] Not really - we were moving in while the chicken coop was being built, so I suspect the decision must have been made a good while before we could ever have met the neighbours concerned.

We seem to have lost Thraxwhirl from the realms of the Celebdaq league...

f**k-a-doodle-do

[Roosters] One of my lovely neighbours has roosters, introduced a couple of years after we moved in. His attitude is "if you don't like it, move" but said in a more unpolite way.

bleary mornings

[Boolbar] Gun with silencer?

[flerdle] That's a good idea. But what about the roosters?

Dunx - chickens

whoops! I wasn't paying attention, and I'm awful at names - I often have to read back in books to check who is who again. We get quite a lot of horses running wild near me as there is a traveller site not far away. The local paper ran an article where a Belfast man now living in the area said he wanted to move back to the Garvaghey Road in Belfast as he felt it was safer, because his garden was constantly invaded by wild horses. Bit of an over-reaction, if you ask me. He said the police wouldn't help once they were on his property. I can't help but wonder if reporting the horses to a horse welfare society might be more likely to get a reply. He could say that they were in danger, and not just from him! (they do gallop all over the roads..).

Rooster booster

I have noticed that the gentle warbly chicken noises you get from hens has an oddly soporific effect. I have considered recording it to sell as a new-age aid to meditation…(Page goes all shimmery)
Are you stressed, anxious or hyper-tense? Why not try Bob the dog’s natural free-range homeopatic massage emporium! Yes! You too can experience deep massage set to the natural sound of real organic chickens. And for that full holistic experience, why not try the gentle scouring action of a detox colonic irrigation using the purest natural Honey Beer? Guaranteed to remove lethargy. Guaranteed to remove sensation.

honeytrap

Oh dear . . . every time the phrase 'Honey Beer' pops up on this page, I can't help but think of a porn star [y'know - add the name of your first pet to your mother's maiden ... etc etc].

Top Billing

[Chalky] Dusty Jaines. eeeek
Best girl's name ever come across in the course of my work (according to a male colleague...) Stella Foster

Comotose

[BtD] I'm with you, my friend. I do not have the pleasure at the moment, but a quiet Sunday afternoon with blue skies and chickens/hens going about their business is a most wonderful dream. Of course, if penelope's Stella Foster was in attendance - or either of them, actually - it would make the experience even more fulfilling. ;-)

Rev Canaan Banana

add the name of your first pet to your mother's maiden to make the name of a porn star? Mmm, I doubt that Snuffy Mander would be very popular. As for odd real names, I once heard of a Basil Crapster.

gil

Khala Lamb

... hmm... not really.

and Beryl's would be Peter Ridge, most uninteresting.

One of my school/student friends was called Michel Joseph Thomas LeBlond de Tedesco. And he insisted on giving his full name on all official forms. I remember the Inland Revenue once sent him a post-reply form asking "Is Michel Joseph Thomas LeBlond de Tedesco one person or two?", to which he answered in the reply section "Yes." - and, strangely, they never followed it up.

a.k.a. Gigi Coates

Shouldn't really draw attention [because I've been contributing] but The Facial Nightwear Game don't 'arf crack me up. I really do LOL.

more wine please

Congrats to snorgle at No1 on Celeb MC. Unfortunately snorgle I wasn't around the last two weeks, so when I get round to it there will be a small break in the tables.

Ooops!

[Inkspot] Oh yes. Someone was meant to be screen saving those tables . . . . .

overcooked celebs

It's such a waste - hitting the million mark on a Tuesday - just after kneecap day and with a whole week to pick up dividends and do . . . well, nothing. Mind you, if Arnie's share price plummets unexpectedly, I could easily summon up some enthusiasm and check my portfolio - but that is unlikely, now some bozo has chucked an egg at him and he's picking up half page features in 'The Times'.

font

Is it just me or has the font changed? It's gone a diet and is all squished up!

fount

[snorgle] it's not just you.

Knowledge

Flerdle, how are you chook?

Regarding your RSVP apropos a pilge in Sydney: Regrettably I shall be unable to attend such a bacchanal - I live some 75Km west from 'The Bridge' and work 7 days a week. Should people (?) be prepared to come out here to the 'sticks' I could probably free up the odd hour or two - but it'd have to be pretty close to home base. ... :-(

A font by any other name ...

I run reasonably high resolution on my monitor (1280 x 1024) and it's pretty big and 'blocky'. What it must look like on a lesser resolution I shudder to thing. (Sorry, only being constructive) ...... Heads for the coop in the fond hope that he's not laid an egg!

Fumbles

'thing' s/b 'think'

Better?

[Font] Is that better? I don't see why the IE default sans-serif font should be so grim. I assumed that not being too specific about the font would be helpful, as it would allow people an element of customisation. The trouble is it seems that (on this version of IE at least, or the way it's been set up for public use) there's no way to change the default fonts, so you're stuck with something MS thinks is kewl.

There are two further ways that one, and only one, browser gets this totally wrong. (Can you tell which one it is yet?) Firstly it refuses to acknowledge the button backgrounds of the buttons are transparent. It also fails to put a border around the page. The latter is hardly a disgrace, but the former is very irritating. I will try and sort this out when I escape Ambleside, as well as doing the demurkation.

Meanwhile... crikee! This is the first chance I've had to sit down and catch my breath since last Sunday evening. Each day follows quite a harsh routine, with lectures from 9 til 12.30. Then in the afternoons we run up some hills to try and prevent the three-course-meal waistlines expanding too ridiculously before another lecture and a tutorial which is the point where I field questions about subjects I last learnt about four years ago when I was a student at the very same school. After dinner there can be a talk (one of which I gave) before running to the nearest pub and downing four pints of beer.

So today I've caught up on my sleep. Weather permitting I'll be doing a big walk tomorrow, and then it starts all over again for another week... It's fun, but I haven't been so tired since, um, about four years ago when I was a student at the very same school. (Err... we got that bit -- Ed.)

font

It's back the way it was now, anyway. Nice stream of consciousness there, Rab!

no change, actually.

[rab] Glad you're getting so much exercise :-)
The text in the Name and Apropos boxes is different to that in the final display, and that in the Stance box is serif. I think I'm just going to have to live with it.

[Dujon] What a shame. Dunno about a "baccanal" though - if we could ever get our act together, at most it would be four of us (and any surprise unknowns), and I don't drink much! It's been settled, I'm heading down thataway in the first weekend in October, but won't have a car, so I can't make it up the hill, as it were. I'm mainly going to be in Dapto visiting a friend (err... whee?). Ah, well, at least I tried. I might return to the area before January, but am really unsure about that.

Whatever happened to...

!York? I have been cast into the wilderness since its unceremonious demise. Am I back on track here?

Welcome Back Tujmeister!!!!!!

!York went the way of the Dodi back in February. A mysterious entity named called "Mordac" is apparently going to set it up again at some point; as for now, everyone's migrated to here, Orange or MCiOS. YAMCS is also kaput

Anyway, welcome back, and here's hoping you're back for some non-stop hot MC thrill-seeking :)

Tuj!

Welcome back Tuj! Hope you enjoy the new look of MC.

[rab] I'm using IE6 and the border is there, the buttons have transparent backgrounds, and the font was fine even when everyone said it wasn't.

[Tuj] Horrah! You're back!

Celebdaq update

Ahnold's incredible rise has tapered off, but, in his words... "I keep coming and coming; I'm coming all the time!"

Tuj!!

Welcome back - long gap but glad you are back. This site has sort of filled the !York gap for me.

Arty-farty

Hello. There's probably not much point telling you about this as the exhibition finished today (sob!) but nevertheless.... On saturday I wandered to Liverpool to go to the Tate gallery there. There was an exhibition on by Janet Cardiff which was truly mindblowing. Is a little bit difficult to explain but it was an audio thing. Thomas Tallis wrote a 40 part motet (unaccmopanied song for 8 choirs of 5 voices each) and Ms Cardiff has recorded this on 40 microphones and it is played through 40 speakers at head height around the edge of the room. So you stand in the middle and get the full picture and then can wander round the room listening to each part. It is wonderful! I'm sure it'll go on to other galleries, so look out for it!

Well, nice to be recognised...

Mordac... sounds Arthurian. As I regrounded here I'll probably stay, having not really got into Orange, MCiOS etc. Let the games begin!

Watty

40 part motet

[Lib] Yes - I raved about this in another place back in April. I believe it's going to be at the Whitechapel Gallery, or some such, very soon, and I concur - go see it!
[Tuj] His full name is Mordac the Preventer, and he may or may not be a figment of Simons Mith's imagination...

Wol

Spem

I have several times performed the Tallis in the round - that is, with the eight choirs surrounding the audience. Only then do you get the full sense of the way the music travels through the performers - sometimes working its way round the circle, sometimes bouncing back from side to side. It is a work of the most astounding technical virtuosity - the forty parts are all truly different and independent, yet the resulting complex is very, very nearly entirely free of parallel fifths (a sort of technical shibboleth in Renaissance music) (we found one once, but I can't now recall where it is!). It is said that the piece was conceived to be performed in an octagonal tower in the (long-vanished) Nonsuch Palace, with a choir in a gallery on each side of the tower. (One quibble with the Tate website's description - Spem is hardly a piece of secular music ...)

Spem, Spem, Spem, Spem...

[Wol] Do you, like all other singers of my acquaintance, derive enormous and, for once, highly justified amusement from its name?

Spam in Aluminium

Wol Breadmaster] I have no idea what you mean ;o) In my artstudent days I composed a piece of music for four suspended washing machine shells. I wired them up with loudspeakers and played through music composed using recorded church bells heavily distorted by volume so that they resonated as they swung. The piece was divided into four movements which progressed from shell to shell. The idea came from a play on the word cycle.

[BtD] Wring Out The Bells?

Wol

Wonderful ...

What is it with singers and their puerile witticisms? Sometimes I think all those jokes about sopranos are justified! (Q: How do you put a sparkle in a soprano's eye? A: shine a torch in her ear ...) Sperm in Ovum; Lo, the Full Frontal Sacrifice; O Slap your Glands Together; I mean, they're just not funny, are they? </snigger>

Watty, re: Mordac] I can see nothing's changed around here then!

Report

[Boolbar] This means I can now officially support those versions of IE on which this page works properly. Which is probably some sort of oxymoron or something.

IE6

For the record, this page has always worked fine on my IE6 too.

IE6 et al

Same for me, also in Safari.

IE6? Feh.

No apparent changes on Mozilla Firebird/Linux.

Old MacDonald had a farm, IE IE 6

With a woof-woof here too. I've just been having a cool glass of my Honey Beer. Why has this page gone all woozy? Your my blest frwend you are ._. . .^{. .} .

Change any subject you don't understand, just like BtD did...

Is it me, or are there pretty much two games of face PJs going on here? Yon Centurion Three has a distinct flavour of it. See you've finally got round to shoving all those cryptic crossword clues somewhere ;)

I forgot to put deodorant on again this morning. Is this what being a busy manager is all about? *whiffs*

me too!

[pen] AArgh, I've done it too! Thanks for reminding me as I'm still in the building where I live so can rectify the situation (and my next port of call is likely to be a changing room at one of the clothing outlets in the monstrosity of the Trafford Centre, so you've reminded me just in time!). *phew! Lib breathes a sigh of relief and mentally appreciates Pen's managerial skills*

Academia

The notion of deodorant is academic given my lingering state of insobriety hanging over from last night. Oh dear. One day I will grow up. The amusing thing is, of course, is that I'm about to give a tutorial.

Odourising Trafford

[Lib] Surely being stinky (sorry, 'glowing', or whatever is you female sorts do) around the Trafford Centre is the best way to assure yourself of not being squeezed to death? Oh, but how I hate that place.

Hm. Three (any more?) of us in the Manchester area - the stuff of a micro-alterna-pilg. And there's a Mornington Crescent to boot (photos of which I never did get developed, and as such are probably degraded beyond use now).

The area

I believe _tim_ and JLE reside in these parts, though I haven't seen the former around for a while. Hangover just about gone now. What a day...

More Magic

After a week wallowing in the bowels of the Celebdaq mini-league and a trip to Britany I have managed to climb on top of snorgle to No1, for this I'd like to thank David Blaine. Can gil get there next, after I've been kneecapped?
Now that Arnie is dropping I hope that Darren and Graham III will return to the fray.

Manc-y-ness

[Manchester] Yay! Lets have a Manchester Pilg! Yay!

[Trafford centre] Had a v good shopping spree and the Trafford centre was surprisingly quiet (although I did wonder whether there was a by-law stating that EVERYONE must be pushing a pram), but I had a nasty experience. Whilst trying on a top I somehow managed to get poked in the eye with the clothes label (the cardboard one). I found this rather surprising as I wear glasses and had my eyes shut. Anyway it hurt and I cried. I pulled myself together and got on with my shopping. 12 hours later its still very sore, so I've just meandered down to A&E and got some drops, don't seem to help much though. *Lib saunters off, feeling slightly silly that such a small injury causes her so much grief*

[Lib] I once managed to scratch my cornea with an overhead projector. Don't ask...

Mini-Burgers

Looking at the most recent Mini Cheddar I'm reminded of something known as the "Noisy Burgers Equation".

Eye too

Lib/CdM] One speck of lime fell into my eye from a badly rendered ceiling once. I have never experienced pain like it. Once in hospital a well-meaning nurse gave me a routine eye sight test despite the fact that I couldn't even open the affected eye. My good eye was so full of tears that I couldn't see the A at the top of the card. She told me that I needed glasses. Logical I suppose. Get better soon Lib - in my experience the drops do help - eventually. If it is any consolation, your namesake has just laid a fabulous egg. Her eyes probably watered a bit too.

Eye's to the Right!

[BtD] Glad Lib's laying well, it is rather exciting to have a namesake! And you'll all be relieved to know that my eye is feeling lots better tonight.

forgetful

And thanks for the sympathy! It worked wonders!

Eyiiiiiieee

[Eye] I have a small tear in my cornea. If my eye dried out overnight (central heating, restless night, alcohol) then when opening that eye in the morning the lid would pull on the tear making it worse. I couldn't face any change in light intensity for a couple of hours without the feeling of a sharp needle in the eye. Liquid tears for the best part of a year did the trick. NEVER use eye cleaners like Optrex though. How did I do it? Would you believe a poke in the eye from a sharp stick?

Trust me, I'm sort of a...

[Boolbar] Recurrent corneal erosion, if you want a name for that; not uncommon, and as another of our correspondants will tell you, v painful. Artificial tears (lubricants), preferably unpreserved, used regularly, are really the only thing that helps.

[Lib] Get thee to someone with a decent slit-lamp biomicroscope :-) So cool, eyes seen really close... but you're probably fine by now. Owwww, anyway.

[BtD] Lime and other caustic burns can be REALLY bad. *shudders* (oh, and if anyone was wondering about first aid for them, force the person's eyes open and wash wash wash. Oh, and wash. Forget about those piddly little bottles of eyewash, shove their head under a tap/hose/shower. Stay there for 20 minutes, the caustic action keeps working even if you've apparently flushed it all out.)

Oh, and another thing - heed the warnings on eye drops to discard after opening (unpreserved) or a month after opening (preserved). Trust me, I *know*.

err... and when I said "force"...

... I meant, gently hold. but make sure the eye is open. They will thank you later. Honest. *resists posting pictures of what can happen if you don't*

[flerdle] Ta for the name. The only fun part of it was visiting the Doctors who shoved some fluorescent dye in my eye to see what was going on. I had green glowing eyes for the next hour.

Fun dyeing

Oh yeah, that stuff is fun, and it stains clothing wonderfully. If you blow your nose, your sn... anyway, fluorescein (the dye) also glows under UV light. Something not to mix with contact lenses, because they absorb it.

Glow in the dark eyeballs

flerdle] Even more reason to do it - especially as halloween is just around the cornea (waak waak).

Severe eye injury

I just suffered one right now -- I brought up www.bbc.co.uk and right there was Laurence Llewelyn-Bowen. My retinas decomposed immediately in defense....

Concrete Evidence

[Boolbar] Being the other correspondent which flerdle speaks of, I can agree that it's bloody painful. The offending item was a corner of a piece of concrete board, and so I agree with flerdle that there was a good chance of there being some nice cuastic damage there too. It's been fifteen months, and I'm getting less frequent and less severe pain now, but still... I'd really rather not have to deal with it.

One unexpected benefit of our new house is that because it has aircon, we have no need to run fans in the windows and so I no longer sleep in a breeze which stops my eye drying out so much.

Top tip: drink water before going to bed, then some more after you've been to the loo in the night.

Manchester Pilg

"Manchester will celebrate a Europe-wide transport initiative - In Town Without My Car Day - on Sunday when part of Deansgate will be closed to traffic." This seems just the sort of thing to stagger around drunk during. Anyone? I can be in town between around 12:15 and 21:00.

Well, sort of without

Is one fully participating in this pedestrian and velocipedic celebration if one drives most of the way to town and then proceeds on foot? How much walking distance does it take to cancel out the sin of driving?

car-free day

[Nik] I wonder if someone will go mad and drive through the ribbon? :)

Angry Cake Walk

Aha ! Further to discussions in the Lock Cup, I googled mc5 and discovered the angrycake link - the rab.org one don't work no more.

blob

Hello! waves

Walking and rabbiting

[Nik] I would love to join you but am flying off to Dresden on Sunday morning. [Blob] It does you know, you're probably trying to go to the wrong place: http://www.rab.org.uk/mc/ redirects you here.

Blaine baiting

snorgle it looks as if my prediction of last week was out and gil ran out of steam. But I see that rab your playing the long game with a couple of slow burners.
But the League is nicely poised for some upsets tomorrow's divi payout especially from Dujon who got the jump on me buying the same stock but an hour or two earlier.

Momentary outage

(Where 'momentary' is defined as 'any period of a few minutes or so'). That was meant to happen. I finally got around to removing the old disk completely. Much quieter without it, and the various bits screwed back on. There's still going to be a further outage, for RAM, and RSN, but given my propensity to not do things, that could be days, weeks, or aeons.

Outreach

[Nik] I don't spect anyone else noticed. I got a range of Awuga! Awuga! alerts, which did little but alert me to the fact that these pages deal better with error conditions than I thought. Which is a reason to be cheerful, to those of you who are listening.