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The Banter Page
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If you're wanting to get something off your chest, make general comments about the server, or post lonely hearts ads, then this is the place for you.
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Labelling
[Lib] I think the label does help. One of the things that helped me (and is still helping me) pull up out of the spiral of OCD was the fact that I could give it a name. I know now that I have an obsession, and that makes it less real so that I can actually control and sometimes ignore it. When you're in the depths of OCD you fully do not realise that you are obsessing, you just think that there is nothing else to life.
[st d] I can listen to anyone, but I hate talking.
[Lib] Naming a thing (and to some extent inventing the thing by the process of naming it) can cut both ways. The Asp/Aut/AD(H)D concept is now out there to a degree to which it wasn't, not many years ago. This lets people use it as a convenient club to beat people they can't deal with, but also lets others recognise themselves in it and make contact with each other. I've read alt.support.autism on and off, and there's a lot of very interesting, politically conscious stuff goes by. In fact, a lot of the politics is exactly the same as for being gay, black, deaf, or female. For pretty much any position that has ever been taken on any of these issues, change the specifics and it would be something that someone has said about any of the others.
[BM] Anyone who enjoyed "Curious Incident" might also be interested in Elizabeth Moon's Speed of Dark, an SF novel in which the central character is autistic. The characterisation is quite similar.
Labels
Having a label helped me a lot for similar reasons to FG - I could capture my demon. Looking back at my life and the way that things have gone, I can also recognise ADD behaviours there (indeed, recognising ADD behaviours in my school reports was a key element of the diagnosis). This gives me power to forgive myself: ADD is not an excuse for my poor performances in the past, but I've spent too much of my life thinking of myself as lazy and weak. I feel that I understand better why my education was so skewed towards things I liked, or why I flit from subject to subject, or why I will focus on interesting things to the exclusion of all else, or why I have such an appalling sense of the passage of time. Recognising these things (rather than blaming myself for them) has helped a lot.
Labels
they tried to label me as Bi-polar (it's all coming out isn't it ?) but I just smiled knowingly and carried on reading the numberplates.
'Best Before' labels
I'm normal on the surface. Whatever demons I carry with me are my business, but I'm approaching 40, single, childless and seem to be attracted by, and attractive to, men 15 years my junior. Make your own conclusions, then keep them to yourself! ;o)
.....
***quietly goes and hides behind a chair***
*whistles innocently*
Labels
[Lib] Ah, but they're not just labels. They're objective realities. Saying that someone has ADD, for example, isn't just saying that they have a bunch of particular personality traits - it means that they have a particular genetically transmitted condition which causes those traits. As Fat German says, if you don't have the traits very badly, you probably don't have the condition with which those traits are sometimes associated. But if you know that someone does have that condition then you can treat it, if treatment is appropriate. Describing this kind of diagnosis as "applying labels" is as silly as talking of disgnosing a broken leg or lung cancer or any other illness or condition as "applying labels". Certainly I have found it enormously helpful to be properly diagnosed because it means I can recognise OCD things for what they are and deal with them accordingly. And this is true of many other people I have spoken to, with OCD and with ADD as well.
Labels
[BM] There is a crucial difference, though, between a broken leg and these mental conditions or constitutions. In the case of a broken leg, you can demonstrate the objective existence of a physical pathology, and there are treatments known to be effective in pretty much every individual case. For ADD and the like, no-one has demonstrated either an objective pathology, or an objectively effective treatment based on an understanding of the pathology. All we have is descriptions of symptoms that cluster together (although no individual need show all of them), vague genetic correlations, and supposed treatments of very variable effect. There may indeed be a definite thing wrong with the brains of OCD sufferers, and there may be possible treatments as effective as setting a broken bone and applying a cast, but currently, very little is actually known.
(simulposted by a much more succinct post from Raak, but...)
[BM] Well... yes and no. I'll take ADD as my example, since that is obviously what I know best.

It is clear that ADD behaviours can be severe enough to cause problems, and that there are a lot of people who carry these behaviours around with them, but it is not certain that ADD is an objectively definable disease. For instance, ADD has been described and recognised by the US psychiatric establishment for more than 30 years (although its name has been changed a few even times over that time), but the UK establishment only officially recognised ADD in the 1990s - this despite the first published work on ADD being in the UK a hundred years before. Even in the US, ADD has only recently (ie in the last ten years or so) been widely recognised as occurring in adults - it was considered a childhood affliction which was obliterated by adolescence.

Part of the problem is that labelled conditions such as ADD, OCD, etc are note discrete: a bone is broken or it is not broken, but ADD has more degrees than there are labels, and even then it is not clear that even someone whose collection of symptoms is technically pathological enough to be so labelled is actually displaying anything more than just a strong personality trait. There has been work to scan brains under ADD-expressing conditions, and there are apparently common factors to those scans, but ADD is at best a collection of possibly related symptoms. But then is personality just an expression of brain chemistry?

As I say, my belief is that those who are actually disadvantaged by their ADD behaviours are those who have been trying to use their brains in ways which don't mesh with their brain chemistry or personality, where "one size fits all" education systems teach the same learning mechanisms to everyone regardless of how they really learn best. This is one of the reasons that I talk about my having ADD behaviours; Idon't consider myself to be diseased1.

[1] this is going in a footnote because it's not part of the core point, but one of the things which concerns me about statements that ADD is underdiagnosed is that it is then treated as a disease. At this point the children (and this is where I become most concerned - it is almost always children) are dosed up with psychostimulants in order to make them fit in rather than training them to use their brains to their best advantage: the problem is not solved, it is avoided.

Dunx's last paragraph and footnote
Absol-bloodly-lutely. Extremely well put. It extends beyond education and learning mechanisms too, in my view.
clusters
[Dunx and Raak] Hear hear. Nicely expressed.
iz it becos I iz...?
As Raak says, a leg is generally broken or not broken, and the difference is pretty clear and agreed upon, but you get members of any minority group into a room (ADD sufferers, autists, gays, black people) into a room and ask them to define "ADD", "autism" or, heaven help you, "gayness" or "blackness" and you will soon have a heated debate on your hands.
...just witness the endless controversies in the last few decades over the definition and meaning of "disabled".
I like meds
I agree with Dunx that the problem is really one of society not being able to handle people who are different. It's terrible that children, in particular, who have a different way of learning, get straitjacketed into the traditional methods and classed as having a problem if they don't fit in. It's especially ridiculous given how much society actually prizes ADD traits in many ways - such as creativity and spontaneity - which is how people like Billy Connolly, Robin Williams, and Ozzy Osbourne got to where they are today. Bill Clinton, of course, is the classic ADD kid made good. But at the same time, I do think that there is good evidence that ADD, in particular, is a discrete and specific disorder, with specific physiological causes, rather than a handy name for a bunch of sometimes associated phenomena. Raak is wrong to say that the genetic correlations of ADD are vague: they are not vague at all, and there is very good evidence for a strictly physiological basis, although of course how that basis manifests itself will vary according to conditions. Certainly ADD behaviours do vary from person to person in type and degree, which is one of the things that make it hard to diagnose, but it doesn't follow that the underlying cause varies - at least where ADD is the correct diagnosis. We have a rather skewed view of it in the UK because, as he says, it hasn't been officially recognised here for very long, compared to the US; in fact, some of the newer treatments for it, such as Concerta (essentially slow-release Ritalin) are unheard of to many supposed experts in this country. Plus, of course, the media like to fixate on issues of medication and horror stories about it. By the same token, it would be better if society could change to accommodate those of us who are different, but given that it can't, medication is a whole lot better than nothing. I have known people whose lives have been utterly ruined by ADD as well as by OCD. If they had been diagnosed earlier and given the help they needed - medication as well as proper counselling and behavioural therapy - who knows how things might have been different.
Whoops
Something happened to my paragraph marks. I do apologise - as if my tedious exhalations aren't bad enough as it is...
physiology
[BM] So what are the discrete physiological causes of ADD popularly supposed to be, then?
Re: physiology
[Projoy] Primarily temporal lobe dysfunction, at least according to Dr Daniel Amens who was one of the first to use brain scans to try and figure out what is different in an ADD brain. I've read his book Amens' "Healing ADD" where he describes the different areas of brain activation in the six varieties of ADD which he identifies. All of them share some degree of temporal lobe dysfunction.

The temporal lobe controls your ability to concentrate, and is more active when a brain is concentrating on something. A typical pattern in an ADD brain is that when it is used to concentrate deliberately on something then the temporal lobe is actually deactivated (ie there is less neural activity). I say "deliberately" because a common ADD behaviour is 'hyperfocus' where the brain will concentrate on something novel1 to the exclusion of all else, but this is rarely deliberate.

Note that there is another book called "Healing ADD" by Thom Hartmann, that I would also recommend, but which is entirely different. In particular, Mr Hartmann specifically attacks Amens' work in scanning brains. But there we are.

[1] another very annoying aspect of this is that I cannot go to sleep if there is speech in earshot. I'll be drifting off quite satisfactorily when my brain will latch on to the interesting noises and amplify them in my perception. Similarly, I need silence or at least white noise if I need to think about a task which I am not entirely involved in, because otherwise my mind will concentrate on the novel rather than what I'm supposed to be doing.

Right, but that still leaves Raak's point unchallenged, doesn't it? There's nothing to suggest that there's a single cause for that particular pattern of brain activity.
Quite right.

For instance, even the mechanisms by which ADD brain patterns arise in the individual are not certain. There is a high correlation between ADD in parents and in their offspring (a figure of 70% is often quoted) which might suggest a genetic link, but it could equally be due to upbringing: the brain is plastic enough that learning will change its structure (no specific references, I'm afraid - I read this recently but can't remember where), and if much of a child's early development is achieved through mimicry then it's quite possible to imagine that parental ADD behaviours might imprint on the child.

It may well be that the role of genetics in mental development is overstated. There is some work (this book, for instance) which puts forward the argument that:

  1. there is a common perception that genetic factors are the largest causative agent in mental illness
  2. there is almost no evidence of a correlation between mental illness in children and in their parents (the book linked to states that the strongest correlation is in schizophrenia where there is a 50% correlation; nothing about ADD though)
  3. if hypothesis (1) is wrong, then it must be environmental
  4. the most pervasive environmental influence on children is their parenting
  5. therefore the way you are raised is why your head works the way it does.
So, ADD may be at least as much a social phenomenon as a genetic one, although I also think that any learning which has this effect would have been at such a young age that there is no element of choice to it .
something else
I wonder if I could change the subject. Feel free to ignore me. A co-worker is driving me crazy. Her husband hit her and one of the kids and she got a court order that he stay away. Since then, she is trying to find ways to meet him or to justify meeting him. He is possibly suicidal and she thinks this means she should help him. I point out how these suicidal guys sometimes take the family with them (to death), but she still vacillates. She is obsessed and talks about it constantly: outside on breaks, at my workstation, on the phone, in e-mail. She also obsesses about how she wants sex with him and graphically tells me stuff. Oddly, she listens to my advice, which is quite blunt and includes telling her she is not rational now, but I have a law background, not a psychological one. What do I do to get her to get the help she needs? How do I keep her from putting herself in harm's way? How do I (a gazillion other things)?
Dorothy Dix.
Personally, apart from - as you mention - trying to convince her to get some professional assistance I'd stay well out, Tina. If she truly is irrational, heaven knows what affect any well meant advice may have on her. If you do attempt to convince her to get some help I think I'd leave the broken relationship out of any coaxing and simply concentrate on the fact that she is under stress at this time ... Then again, I'm no psychologist!
not ignoring Tina
[cross-posted with Duj] How very difficult for you. Are you in the UK? Can you point her towards the Samaritans or even Relate? In my experience [I've been a voluntary counsellor for some years] you are doing the right thing, in that you are listening. If you are happy to be just a sounding-board, for that is all you are, try not be too disappointed if she fails to heed your warnings. By confiding in you, I'm afraid it looks as though she is seeking justification and perhaps your approval for her future actions, ie. she is likely to meet up with him. I would say, your main problem is that her irrationality appears to have transmuted into outrageously selfish and controlling behaviour [towards you] and you have to guage how much more you can cope with. When she's next in 'listening' mode, you might gently point out that you have a life aswell. But unless she admits she needs professional help, there is little you can do, short of frog-marching her into a doctor's surgery. [Blimey! Do I sound like an agony aunt or what?]
Dujon and Chalky
Yes, this is what my sister says as well. I'm in the US and our employer has a counseling plan. My sister says, make excues when she comes to my cubicle. Yes, she is always seeking my approval. She will announce some awful plan, come to my desk, and ask what I think. I say I disapprove, and so far that works. But it's not right really. I'm not the professional. And she is selfish now. There is nothing in her life except her crisis. She lost maybe 20 pounds. She writes me at 3 a.m. and is not sleeping. Thanks for all your help. I just don't want to open the paper and find her dead.
Warts 'n All
I cannot put myself in your position and therefore cannot really understand, but it sounds like you are in a most awkward position - particularly if you feel obligated to your co-worker. Chalky is undoubtedly correct when she mentions listening but this, long term, could interfere with your own work. In view of the fact that your employer has a counseling service, why don't you have a talk with their staff? Depending on legal contingencies you may have to keep the name of your fellow worker out of any discussion, but at least you may receive 'proper' advice (and by that please do not think that I am denigrating Chalky's input.)
Dr dog
Tina] If you are concerned for her life then she definitely needs professional help. I think you have demonstrated the characteristics of a good listener - but you are not responsible for her situation. She has to be, so it may help to explain this to her in a kindly and assertive way. She may thank you for it.
advice
Thanks to you all for the good advice.
Echoes
I would echo what Dujon said in his last post - counsellors can be extremely useful even if you aren't the one who is in direct need of their services. It allows one to perspectivise the situation. Obviously the best case scenario is if somehow your colleague manages to sort her situation out; the worst case scenario is if this doesn't happen and you get dragged down with it. I found a counsellor was enormously helpful in staving off the latter when I was in a tricky situation.
Trying to attract INKSPOT's attention
To keep the competitive daughter away from MY Daq account - I suggested she sign up herself. She thinks she can knock spots of the rest of us. What a challenge. Any chance of slipping her into our mini-league? [x_sugarbabe_x - 3509835]
Only me...
Some people have to work you know, others sit around waiting for the server to get back up ... so in between this and that, I've added x_sugarbabe_x.
thanking Inkspot :-)
Celebuggered
Well, I'm going to have to waste about £600,000 in my NI-capping. Feh!
OCD
Coincedentally, the R4 programme "All In The Mind" had a segment on OCD on the 28th October edition.
... or rather, I should say, about hoarding. Slight misadvertising there. It's the first segment after the intro.
I've nothing much to add to the above (having just caught up with the foregoing) except to wish Tina luck with her situation and to thank those who've talked about such personal issues so openly in the ADD/OCD debate.
My own feelings are that I feel myself to be somewhat... eccentric, particularly socially. Some days I seem to fire on all cylinders and participate on all levels with "the group" (meaning colleagues & students) - cracking jokes and fitting into the ongoing banter as we work, but other days it's like I'm out of sync or speaking a different language.
I don't feel this or any other of my eccentricities are anything like extreme enough to warrant labelling as a disorder - and my feeling has been reinforced by some of the above - it's seldom if ever a real interference in my life. As Projoy suggested, when you hear stories from people who have suffered it humbles your own pretentions to such things!
I've often remarked flippantly that no-one worth knowing is "normal" or 100% sane - and I do believe it's the oddnesses about people that make them interesting day-to-day. Not so much that these traits are odd perhaps as that they're different, new and interesting. They characterise people, and make them unique.

I was also struck by Dunx's comments about difficulty falling asleep if there's audible conversation going on - I find falling asleep very difficult generally, and any sort of distraction is a killer: conversation (especially other people in the house talking, but also just tv) light - especially ambient light through the window, strong wind & rain (although they're kind of nice to listen to...) I've found music helps, although it needs to be the right sort of music - usually but not always without lyrics, often ambient. Dead Can Dance, Brian Eno's ambient classic Music For Airports and William Orbit's Strange Cargo III are all favourites to drop off to. They help shut out the rest.
Hmmm - this has turned into an insomnia post really...
[Celebdaq] I'm flabbergasted that Keanu Reeves is still dropping despite the last Matrix films opening... I was doing so well with Arnie before that too... ho hum.
[bl] "The only normal people are the ones you don't know very well."
Celebdaq - Keanu Reeves dropping
Could it be because the last Matrix film is getting bad reviews, rather than good?
Sleepless in... well, everywhere
[blamelewis] I sympathise greatly. I have always suffered terribly from this. I have been known, on more than one occasion, to be kept awake by my own heartbeat. This is an example of how diagnosis helps, however: now that I know I have OCD, I recognise much of this as silly obsessiveness within my own head. I don't really need conditions to be perfect before I fall asleep, I just think I do, and it's the obsessing about it that actually keeps me awake. And that alone makes things much easier. However, I still cannot sleep through any kind of human-made noise. Those damn humans!
Scilence
Dunx/Blame/Bread] Sleep is something I adore. I could easily (and and often have) fallen asleep within earshot of conversation - que joke about boring conversations. But to try and fall asleep to music, even Brian Eno, would be impossible for me. I'd be far too wrapped up in thinking about the music to let it lull me. I prefer natural darkness and scilence - as experienced on Shetland - where there is vitually no man-made background light or sound.
zzzzzzzz
[Bob] I've noticed a big difference since moving out of Glasgow - there's no longer a streetlight glaring in my window, and only very occasionally do the sounds of drunken revelry intrude. {Bread] i feel sometimes it's the whirl of thoughts in my head keeping me awake - that and being insufficiently tired - I know part of the problem is my lack of regular exercise also. [JLE - Matrix] Bad press should count as much as good - look at Prince Charles this week!
Radio 40 winks
I fall asleep listening to Radio 4 - I like the noise of voices as I doze off. If there are too many of my thoughts whirling around in my head, (and this is where I start to think I'm odd, after reading everyone else's confessions) I kind of 'take dictation' from the shipping forecast or the news or whatever is broadcast. I hear the words, then see them in my mind's eye on the page, the shape of the letters and the shape and length of the word. It leaves no room for other thoughts and I'm asleep within minutes. I can't listen to music to fall asleep - it has a stuimulant effect, no matter what kind of music it is.
Sleeping to the radio
Adult to small child who has just answered the door: "Is your Mummy in?"
Small child: "She's asleep listening to Woman's Hour."
Bed, where is thy spring?
I don't seem to have this trouble. Diet and preoccupation seem to be pretty much the only factors that affects whether I sleep. Thus I must not eat after 7 if I want to fall asleep by 11. And almost nothing wakes me. Someone was stabbed to death on my street once and I slept through the whole incident. Provided I have followed the eating rule, I can fall asleep to any music or stimulus, even violent atonal C20th music. I fully expect to die in a fire someday.
To sleep, perchance to dream
I am fortunate. I fall asleep when I want to, which means when I am tired. I sleep lightly but it never really bothers me if I wake in the night [or if I am woken] because a cup of tea usually sorts me out. I wake when I need to. How dull.
I'm dreaming of a ... daq
Not really - BUT - come on, Dr.Q+ - you are within sight of the line (or at least in line of site.) You can make it ... deep breath ... push ... push ... only a bit to go ...

I'm afraid that Doris_Newbold and ffiish are about to lose a bit of well earned dosh, Doris though having just made the finishing post.

site ... s/b ... sight ... sheesh!
dream
[Chalky] not at all, sounds blissful! [celebdaq] That's it, I've sold Keanu, his usefulness offscreen clearly not in proportion to his arboresence on screen... it Prince Charles for me! (As the Butler said) (allegedly)
nodding off
I like sleep but sleep doesn't like me. I can't do it properly at all. And following on another comment, I fully expect to die by being stabbed to death as I set fire to Projoy's house.
zzzzzzz
At the beginning of the week, when I have classes, I get about 3-5 hours of sleep a night. At the end of the week, I get 10-12. Plus, any night of the week, I might decide not to sleep at all. In this fashion, I am training my body not to expect any particular amount of sleep at any particular time. I'll never be jet-lagged again!
[noise] I can't handle TV or conversation when trying to sleep at all, but I can handle music if it doesn't have lyrics, and is very repetative. For instance, I've fallen asleep underneath tables in the middle of raves a couple of times. Of course, driving all day to get there and then having to unload all the speakers undoubtedly helped.
Sleep
I used to have terrible trouble sleeping through other people's noise. My lodger used to have music on at night fairly quietly and it used to drive me mad, especially the fact that the bassline was audible more than the rest, to the point where we had a screaming row about it. She couldn't see my point of view and I was incensed that she couldn't see mine. Now that I know I'm obsessive about it I can sleep through it just fine. If it's me making the noise (my music, my radio, etc) I can sleep through practically anything.
Bass disturbance
FG] I couldn't stand any music at night either. I once shared a room in an International hostel with a guy who had an immense collection of pop music from Ghana. I had to move rooms to stay sane. The ex-roommate then started to make claims that I was racist (notes on the message board - complaints to the hostel management) because I didn't like being kept up till 4.00am every night. In an international setting, this was extremely hurtful.

This may seem funny, but it is really very sad. I someone who suffered from Tourette's syndrome recently. For some bizarre reason, he'd chosen to become a street performer - specialising in children’s entertainment. There must be a reason why he chose such an inappropriate career path.
I met someone
[Bob] Sounds interesting. Tell us more!
Lib] Not much more to tell. I was with my (at that time) 6 year old daughter. This chap was dressed in colourful street hippy type clothes and was earnestly and unsuccessfully trying to attract the attention of people with children outside Shakespeare’s Birthplace (I live in Stratford). I'm not usually keen on this kind of thing, but he seemed so honestly appealing so we stood and watched him juggle. He came over to us and talked to my Daughter. He was very sweet and friendly but when he spoke to me it was obvious he has Tourette's because he would twitch (as if sneezing) and shout a swearword. My partner and I are not uptight about letting my daughter hear swearwords, if she asks, we just tell her what they mean and that they are words it is wrong to use in public because they could cause offence. Same with this guy. It gave me an opportunity to talk to my daughter about the syndrome and how awful it must be to be a sufferer. The juggler, however, was not at all popular - especially with other parents - which was a shame because he really was good with my daughter.
Knee-capped
Not too gutted though - made well over 200,000 since dividend payout having not quite reached the 2,000,000 mark and was never going to make it up to the 3,000,000 mark before today. This week will be the real test.
Tourette's
[Bob and anyone else who's interested] There is a form of Tourette's, just as well documented, which manifests it self in strange twitches and 'noises' but NOT swearing. [I suppose it's not surprising that the uncontrolled blaspheming is the symptom that attracts all the attention - and sniggers] I know this because my brother's son had it. He and his wife noticed when my nephew was about 8 years old and within months he was diagnosed by the top specialists in the country. They have spent years keeping abreast of the constantly updated research on the syndrome as well as communicating via support groups, etc with other families who suffer. They were told quite early on that he would 'grow out' of it during puberty. He did. He's now 16 and is a superb county rugby player and is in the England R U Development Squad.
Had a conversation with a friend last night, she mentioned someone she knew who had Tourette's -- his specific symptom was that he'd 'baa' like a sheep all the time...
tourettes
Bob] You are right of course to say it is very sad and an awful syndrome etc etc. BUT, I am sorry, a juggling kid's entertainer with tourettes. That is comedy genius. Or would be if it were a sketch on Trigger Happy TV and not real life. Are you telling me that you haven't since laughed at the thought of the guy handing a balloon shaped like a donkey to some 6 year old and then saying "BOLLOCKS" really loudly? Tragic syndrome. Hysterically funny image.
Mental rental
Tee-hee - a self-drive rental truck has just driven into our office balcony, gashing a huuuuge hole in its roof!!
5 tonne monsters
I drove one of them last time we shifted. Why me and not the man of the house I can't remember. I was completely paranoid, because of the huge excess to pay if there'd been an accident, and because it was huge compared with our little car. But the bouncy driver's seat was fun.
van woman
[flerdle] It'll be because you're sensible and give off an air of confidence and capable-ness. And of course, you could blame Mr flerdle for making you drive if there'd been an accident... ;o)
little do they know...
[penelope] I love how your mind works :-D
He said WHAT?
St d] In fact that is what happened - except there was no balloon and he said "W@NKER" :o)
mini-swears
If walking past my old primary school is representive, kids know words like bol****s and w**ker anyway. In my day 'bum' was rather naughty.
A missing "ta"
They taught me to spell in those days as well.
w@nker
Bob] And you have laughed since in teling this story ? I am tempted to turn into a street clown and fake the tourettes.
googlewhack
not that i am particularly bored today or anything, but I just found a googlewhack, and they wont let me post it - I assume because it is deemed rude. Anyway I willshare it here as it is a genuine whack! FELLATED MOHICANS.
St d] Come to think of it - he said that too...
Whacked Off
[st d] Are you sure that's a googlewhack? If so I'm really rather surprised.
googlewhack
Oooh! It is, I just checked..
moving
[flerdle] You have a longer drive this time. And remember to deflate the tires when you reach the desert.
Losing hair
I was going to compose an extraordinarily witty comment to post somewhere on the site. However, I thought that this was even more funny (courtesy of my I.S.P.):

Service Disruption Start: Wednesday, 12 November 2003 at 5:53AM EDST
Last Updated: Wednesday, 12 November 2003 at 12:04PM EDST
Scheduled Service Disruption: No
Who is affected: Some customers
Impact: We are currently having problems with ADSL. This is affecting customers in New South Wales. Some customers will experience no dataflow. Technicians are treating this issue as a priority and are working on the problem.

Right, I'm off to find a pub or a bottle or something - it beats crying. Any takers?

Looking at that
Not clear? Probably not.

I have just spent considerable amounts of time attempting to post/read/hack a number of sites. I'm giving up and, hopefully, will see you all tomorrow.

Credit where it's due department
Last night, bored as hell with the quality of discussion in a chatroom, I began posting "Fascinating Facts", all culled from the lies game on this very server. After I posted Ibid's "Hammerhead sharks have to clean their teeth regularly, due to the large quantities of salted peanuts they eat." one of my duller interlocutors asked "where do they get the peanuts", allowing me to take great pleasure in replying "Do I look like a marine biologist?"

Totally irrelevant I know, but just a small example of how the MC community brings happiness into the world in small unexpected ways. :)

Projoy
I remember meeting you once in the Head of Steam many moons ago, on a Tuesday if I recall correctly. From that dim recollection, and also from my having met more than a couple of Marine Biologists in my time, I can only conclude that from a certain angle, and in the right light, you actually DO look like a Marine Biologist. But that is by the by - where DO the sharks get the peanuts from ?
You know, sometimes I wish I actually were a marine biologist. Particularly today, with the office feeling especially horrible.
marine biology
Indeed. How nice to be sitting on a beach somewhere far flung with a torch and a clipboard and a ruler, waiting for a load of turtles to turn up.
[Projoy] Why are people in chatrooms so stupid? The number of times I've tried to talk about something interesting or intelligent, only to get in reply "wot". I appreciate that my kind of interesting conversation may not be everyone's, or indeed anyone's, but what kind of idiot just types "wot"? The same kind that spells "great" with an 8, I suppose. [Shuffles off in carpet slippers muttering about the war.]
chatroom schmatroom
[Bready] Where do you chat? I'll gladly gatecrash and help you to liven things up a bit. Likewise [Projoy] there's some interesting Duologues to be made there, I'm sure. I was a frequenter of MSN chatrooms, where I would resort to lobbing virtual cushions about the room to initiate some reaction. And if nobody responded to a cushion, I'd try throwing virtual knives.
chattin
I have to confess - when I first became internetted a few years ago, my first port of call was an MSN chatroom. I plunged myself nervously into the mêlée, learned all the patter, sussed out the dynamics, etc. Anyway, after a couple of unsatisfactory weeks I decided it wasn't for me and became far more attracted to the community message board attached to the room, where I encountered some like-minded souls. Anyway, to cut a long [but rather interesting] story short, I now have two very close friends whom I see on a regular basis as a result of that experience. So, although I wouldn't be seen dead in a chatroom now [they terrify me], I can't exactly decry those who get something out of the experience.
Besides, if I manage to get any time to myself late evening, I would rather bimble around the Crescent sites. Talking of which, does anyone frequent the MCiOS chat server? If I knew that some friendly faces were in there, I might make an exception.
As far as I can see we never get around to creating enough activity in our own chatroom at MCiOS. We should maybe have a particular time in the week (like Sunday night at 8 or whatever) for VirtualPilgs, then the place would really buzz.
Grasshopper mind
Oh, and to leap back to the neurology discussions, is it meaningful for a person to maintain "I'm pretty ADD today" (as I have just done to a colleague. I certainly am finding it hard to focus on anything for longer than 20 seconds today, which is not always a problem.
And another thing
Why do I invariably leave off the closing parenthesis or comma from a subclause, and why do I often forget to put a question mark at the end of a question? Somebody must know. I can't be the only one.
crescent chat
[Projoy] Damn fine idea, although I'm part of a pub quiz team and we compete on Sunday nights, so I can't make it until about 11pm. Also I'm likely to be a bit squiffy.

Noting your simulpost PJ - it's because you're having an BAD ADD day

ADD
I had the answer to your questions, then I am afraid I got distracted by a tiny jam tart.
Mmm. Jam tart.
The MCiOS Chat Room
[Chalky] I'm usually in there while I'm at work (usually 12:30-21:30 GMT), but often not at my desk when anyone happens to show up. :(
trying to work at home
Distractions? DISTRACTIONS?? You should worry - a mere glimpse at the words jam tart sent me into the kitchen to throw together a chocolate sponge. Smells lovely, mind.
tarts
I just had another one. Terribly nice. Tiny little ones as well. From Safeways I believe. Mmmmm.
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh! You know I can actually FEEL myself stagnating today. This is not good.
chat
The thing is, strange people live in the MCiOS chatroom.. scary people..

Yay! I just won a prize!

winning ways
Well done, snorgle. Your statement begs the questions - what and what for?
stagnation
[st d] Glad I'm not the only one. Know what I did (nobody tell my boss, please). I stood up, announced I was going for a late lunch, then walked out of the building took a tube to Covent Garden and marched into the Back Rub Centre for 20 minutes of massage by a very attractive man. I came back and slipped into my desk with a cat and cream sort of expression. It may not have helped my productivity, but it sure as hell made me feel better.
chat denied
I can't MCiOSchat at work :o( but I can eat jam tarts, although right now we don't have any. We had mince pies in the office yesterday though :o). A weekly cyberpilg would be good - I sometimes see DrQ in there, and occasionally flerdle, usually 9pm-ish GMT. How about a Monday night?
And simulposted by Projoy - why can't I work closer to Covent Garden and the attractive backrub man? Tesco's mince pies down't sound a patch on a cat-and-cream expression after a session like that. (Mind you, there are runours of a company with its own rowing eight moving into the office suite next door to us):oD
Monday nights are probably quite sensible, since one's least likely to have a social engagement/evening class/rehearsal/major shopping expedition/press conference to launch Conservative leadership bid that night.
thumbs up for Monday
Bugger - that's the evening I usually have sex. Ah well, I suppose abstaining one day a week won't do any harm. :-)
curious companies
[pen] a Company with its own rowing eight?? I wonder if the contentious eightsome have to work in a separate soundproofed room so their 'loggerheading' doesn't disturb the placid ones?
smashing!
[Chalky] The new company has 'Porcelain' in its title (I've seen some early post in the lobby) so perhaps they're made to keep their oars elsewhere for fear of smashing the samples. I wonder where they keep their rowlocks?
Night-time
Monday nights sound good to me.
Cyber pilg
Do Monday nights suit non-UK MCers? It'd be particularly good if Dunx, Dr Q, Flerdle and Dujon et al can join in as they can't get to UK pilgs.

This Monday is out for me - I'm doin' my thing at a conference in Edinburgh. Three days of torment made good because of the location.

But I'll join in a week on Monday. I'll merrily settle down in front of the PC with a big drink and a cuddly toy (I've never been on a pilg but I believe this is the done thing).
llareggub
I'm looking forward to the new Under Milk Wood on R4 this Sat - thank God they've kept Burton.
Le Pilg à Cyber
I haven't tried the chat room recently from work; should be OK, since our firewall is reasonably permissive. And Monday night is probably a better bet in any case - the last time any kind of regular online MCing was attempted was with an IRC channel many moons ago, and I don't think there were ever more than about four people.
chat?
[snorgle] I didn't think I was that scary...

I have had several attempts at seeing if people could coordinate to turn up in the chatroom at some particular time, but it's never worked. However, pilgs have been great, and things seem to really take off when there's more than three people there (or more than one, which is more often the case). Now that there seems to be some sort of interest, of *course* I'll be around. When people are at wirk it just doesn't work, I think, so UK evenings are fine for me, especially now that the sun comes up earlier. Day of the week doesn't matter too much, although if I work that day I may have to leave by 11pm UK time (Sundays and Tuesdays, probably). Some days I can be around longer because I'll be working from home, so there may be a possibility of more US-Aus meeting more towards the US evening time, (even west coast). My possible times, of course, are only for the next two months, then I'll have to see how the net connection and a new time zone work. Monday night is fine. What other possibilities are there? Maybe broadcast the idea to the other two sites.

*lights candle, sings softly to self*

pilgs win prizes
[flerdle]I might manage a Monday, but can't guarantee I'd be there long..(it was JLE who was scary..:) I can't get into that chatroom at work, but home is fine. I think my computer is on its last legs(or something), but I've asked for one for Christmas, so you never know.. :) I won a trip up to London to see Love Actually - travelling up Friday, staying overnight and seeing the film the next morning..Yay!
Jealousy
Oh, I say, snorgle, well done!
What is it with ladies? My wife has been fortunate enough to win two (2!) trips over the last few years - well, ten or fifteen years - one to Fiji and one to Mauritius ... grrrr!
waaant prizes!
[Dujon] Not this one. hmph.

Well, if the activity in the chatroom last night was any indication, we could be in for a fun time when Mondays roll around :-)

*blows out candle, wanders off*

Whoops
Just remembered that on Monday night I too shall be in Edinburgh. [Bob] I'm in Embra on Mon/Tues nights. I expect you'll be tied up with your conferencing, but if you fancy a pint let me know and we could work something out.
prize!
Got the details in the post this morning (first class does still work sometimes..) and we'll be staying at the Hyde Park Towers Hotel, so I hope it's nice. Luckily I managed to get tomorrow off work without any trouble..
Mcpilg
rab] That'd be fab - Monday drawback is I'm a meeting between 6 and 8 ish. I arrive (if Virgin do their stuff) at 15.41 so I've got some time either early or late evening. Tues busy until 9ish. If you are still able to go for a drink - email me!
*zoing*
hippy
[rab]Are you being Shaggy?
Shaggy
[snorgle] Isn't that rather a personal question?! But so as I don't become the subject of unfounded allegations I should point out that that's the sound of an email winging it's way to Bob the dog.
Rooby rooby roo!
ADD
Just to return to the subject again, oh wait jam tarts.....
ahem I had an ADD moment last night. I was watching a film which, whilst enjoyable, was not exactly the most demanding in terms of plot or dialogue After 45 minutes or so I found myself fidgeting and eventually I was balancing cigarettes on my hat, just to keep a bit more of my mind occupied. I wondered if this has something to do with it, maybe my brain requires more than an 'average' amount of stimulation and that maybe this could be related both to ADD and OCD? If I'm suitably engrossed in something, most of my OCD evaoprates only to return when I get bored again. Discuss?
bored
Sounds like you were just bored FG. I mean, its understandable really. What I am interested in though (and this may sound flippant but is a serious enquiry) is the hat/cigarette thing. Were you balancing the cigarettes whilst in the packet ? Or were you balancing single cigarettes on their end (far trickier) Were you wearing the hat ? What kind of hat was it ? Were the cigarettes lit ?
Mad? Me? Who says I'm mad? Mad am I? That's what those fools said in medical school. Could a madman do this? Hahahahahaaaa!!!!
[FG] Not wanting to bore on this topic any more than necessary, but yes, the more engrossed I am in something the less OCD I am, and the less, the more, if you see what I mean. But I think this applies to everyone to some degree. Aristotle says that the only people who eat sweets at the theatre are those who are bored by the play, the point being that there's no such thing as generic "pleasure", but rather each activity has its own pleasure, and the more engaged you are in an activity, the more you enjoy it. In other words, you can't completely enjoy two things at once, because they will compete for your attention; and conversely, if you aren't enjoying something, your mind will try to find something else to enjoy. Discuss.
I'm bored, too
Heavy, saucer-shaped object they throw in athletics competitions. Discus. sorrysorrysorry
Fidgeting
I can't sit still, especially in things that I'm required to sit still for. My mum refuses to sit by me at the theatre as i'm constantly shuffling in my seat and my boyfriend clobbers me when i fidget whilst sat next to him at the cinema. Its not cos I'm bored (as I'm often accused of) I just get un-comfy so feel the need to move.
numb-bum
[Lib] I find lot of theatre and cinema seats are rather uncomfortable at about the one hour stage. Shuffling is somewhat necessary.
stretchy legs
[Lib]I try to sit in the front row or on an aisle seat - more leg room that way.
Chat
Apparently, the MCiOS chat room does work for me at work. This is good. I should be along on Monday, meetings permitting.
The Kiki Thing
[FG] I know what you mean. I find some meetings to be similarly frustrating.
Hats
[st d] It's a wooly hat. It was on the floor. It was knitted by my mum with big thick wool and consequently (a) stands up on its own, and (b) has holes in it especially a nice one in the top. I managed to get a cigarette wedged in the hole, pointing vertically, and then attempted to balance another one on top of that, and so on. Quite a challenge actually, I never made it further than one on top of another.
Fag balancing
I remember a book by Julian Barnes in which someone lies on her back and smokes a cigarette all the way down without tapping it out, so that a thin grey column of ash is balanced perilously on top of her lips. She then reveals that she had stuck a hairpin down the length of the cigarette before lighting it to hold it together. If I knew how to smoke, I'd use that trick to impress girls.
If I knew...
[BM] Surely there must be some evening class you can go to.
For some reason I thought BM was going to give us the low-down on the ping-pong ball scene from Priscilla Queen Of The Desert. Its a great trick for impressing the boys...
ping pong
Oh how I laughed... What's the trick? It's dead easy!
What the?
After running in the high teens and low twenties, the weather has turned = 36°C as I type. Urrgh. Don't get me wrong, I am happy with that - it's tonight I'm worried about.
Someone broke the weather
That's interesting, here on the east end of the US we've had the opposite problem - High of 60ºF and low of 30 one day, high of 30 and snow the very next day.
Ping Pong
[BtD] Oh, if only I knew the low-down on that...
[Dujon] Where do you live?
talking of the weather...
It's a cracking day here in the mid-south of dear old Blighty... an azure blue sky, fluffy while cloudy things and lots of smiley faces .. especially on rugby fans.. Kinda makes me glad to be alive.
Outlook uncertain...
Lovely day here in mid UK too. I wonder what Edinburgh will be like?
Embraclime
According to my guest from that fine city, it's been warmer and drier than Manchester. Though that doesn't surprise me.
A porridge of high pressure
rab] Good. I shall bring mt Bermuda kilt!
for mt read my.
A boys weekend
Not only was the weather good here but the wife (and mother of three) left on Friday for a weekend of shopping with some of her friends, returning after tea today. Just a quick tidy up half hour before she arrived...a free weekend of no 'lists of thing-to-do', no 'we can't sit around here all day', just coke,crisps, playstation and the occasional nappy...easy.

Meanwhile over at Celebrity MC mini league Chalky takes over from DrQ at No 1, and staight in at No3 is the mysterious x_sugarbabe_x

slacking off and daq-ing off
[Inkspot] Lovely! I managed to grab about three hours of my own company this afternoon. I built a log fire and sprawled in front of the TV. Grand.
Re: Celebdaq ... yes, that daughter of mine is going to be SO smug when she sees how well she's performing. Strangely enough - I put all my pounds on the same person as she did after divi-time last Friday .. and today she has somehow managed to get ahead of me. Beginner's luck I say.
dak dik dak dik _ dak dak dik dak

Grumbles something about 'children these days!' and heads for the shed.
to do lists
Inkspot] Sounds like you should make her a list with: 1.leave me alone Please ! and 2. Stop making me lists and: 3. realise that not only CAN he sit around all day and do nothing, but he finds it remarkably therapeutic.
cross-posting
[To all Radio4 listeners] 1830 GMT tonight is the first of the new series of ISIHaC from Winchester. I'm hoping to hear myself laughing.
wish lists
Chalky]Three hours in a single afternoon? to yourself? Now that's sounds wonderful, I'll exchange you that for my Tom the toddler ("Read books daddy", "Do puzzle daddy", "Train track...", "Play cars...")The other two being 9 and 12 can be left to their own devices.

On second thoughts ignore that, I wouldn't change him for anything...
st d] It's not the just lists but the silent looks, perhaps Chalky could give some insight ;)

A plea
Why are there only two of us playing Mornington Crescent? :(
annoyed glares
[Inkspot] Doubt if I can share any insights, not knowing if the lists/silent looks are aimed at your role as a husband [B&Q, DIY, manly household chores] or father [guidance & gainful occupation of young things]. To be honest, I'm a fan of the school of 'sitting round all day at home with the TV/video/DVD/Playstation/CDplayer/piano/PC/Internet' especially when there's little ink smudges to look after.
Children actually enjoy sharing stay-at-home-stuff with relaxed adults.
I think there's far too much - [oh dear - high horse alert] - "Oh yah, to develop their full potential, little Venetia and young Felix are always occupied with ballet, moderndance, jazz/tap dancing, drama, horseriding, t'ai chi, judo, karate, kick boxing, cordon bleu vegetarian cookery, screen printing, blah-de-blah classes and isn't my 4-wheel drive so handy for running them around in?" Bollocks to all that. As long as they walk regularly, go swimming as often as possible, and actually spend some time with their parents, they usually turn out OK.
[Ahem - that is, provided their parent/parents are normal :-)]
adults
Hurrah! A non-neurotic parenting-type! Any room on that horse for the rest of us?
zk
Maybe they've got us on ignore...
ignorami
[AP] No chance Pet! I'm assuming that most of the 'onliners' last evening were in the chat server in MCiOS. I even leapt off my high horse to join 'em.
late chat
[Chalky] Ah, the pantomime. I was still chuckling about it even as I wwent to bed. There were a few more characters that I forgot to own up to... although this may have been before you came in. I was also the rocket and the Qualified Master Sofa Assembly Technician (who was ejected into high orbit when CdM pressed the eject button on the old sofa).
guffawing
[pen] Wonderful stuff - if I'd had more wits about me [or less vino IN me] I would have worked out how you managed that without my noticing. *plots fiendish strategy for next time*
Ah-ha!!
[pen] So it was you!! I think flerdle must have been the Door-to-Door salesperson - no idea who the monkeys were though. And I wasn't impersonating anyone. It was all I could do to keep myself upright on the chair most of the time. I wish I could have stayed :-/
*innocent*
I wasn't anybody other than myself. And I stayed to the very end. Seven hours in all. *was insane*
Oh, and I did get work done today. Honest, guv.
chatty
I was planning to do stuff last night, but so much for that.. :)
owning up
I was the Door-to-Door Salesman and one of the Shakespear-quoting monkeys - although I'm not sure who the other one was. I was sniggering so hard throughout I had aching ribs and cheeks by the end of the evening. As a form of laughter therapy, I reckon that would cure anything :o)
two windows
[Chalky] You just have two chat rooms windows open side-by-side. At one stage I had three - there was me as penelope, the (Retired) Firework Salesman, and the rocket, which fortunately didn't stay in the room very long as I was having trouble keeping track of what was what by that stage.
Regrets
It was a riot. I really wish I could have stayed, but playing from work and trying to work is too difficult for my brain to cope with.
roles
I was just me. Oh, and the IKEA delivery person, of course. And my apologies to everyone for being so non-communicative -- I kept getting tied up in these long work phone calls that required my brain.
I missed this. Will another be arranged?
[BM] It seemed like Monday night was a good night to meet, so it may happen, to a larger or smaller extent, any Monday from here on in. Or any other time. I think some people might be there this Saturday afternoon too. Check here for other announcements of a gathering-type nature.
chatroom
How does one find the chatroom?
Over yonder
Tina] On the MC5 front page there is a link to Orange and MCiOS, under the clock, click on "the Real time chat server Beta", enter your name. Whatever you do, don't press the red button!
chatroom
Thanks Inkspot.
What a load of fucking crap this site is, compared to Pants. No wonder I've left
Refusing to accept that that was the 'real' Rosie.
My apologies - that should have read:
Now, where was I?
Ah, yes. I shall endeavour to join those who may partake of the delights of the 'chat room' next Monday - I shall most likely be a wee bit late (assuming I make it at all) as 8pm on Monday to most of you is 7am to me on Tuesday.
monkey-business
[penelope] The other monkey was Phil.
simian episodes
[flerdle] Phil, was it? Cheeky monkey. He was poking fun at me all night. Just tell him I know where his pub is...
EEEEEEEEK!
My Celebdaq went all pink and has Simon Cowell on it! GAAAAAAAH!
Backchat
Sorry I was unavailable on Monday. I was engaged in an alternative form of chat with Bob the dog. It was a bizarre experience - there was no delay between send and receipt of message, furthermore the conversation didn't get out of synch with itself and we were able to teleport alcoholic beverages to one another in real time. I don't think my brain can cope with the sensory overload, and I'll have to revert to the old-fashioned style next week.
Brooms
Oh... and I feel it might be time to get the brooms out and cobweb away some of the games that are starting to putrify. Someone want to set the ball rolling?
Sweeping
I placed a fairly strong hint in the Carpe Diem game, though no-one seems to want to be The One Who Finished A Game.
Clang!
Just dropped another hint in the Centurion game.
Marvellous
Those were the two that were at the top of my list for treatment. So folks - remember the rules: revivals of old classics require a case for support.
alternative form of chat
Rab] Most enjoyable. Would be very happy to attempt further teleportations at some point in the future. Conference over, I am now sitting in an internet cafe in Waverly station awaiting my 8 hour train journey home.
New Game] never contributed but always enjoyed the longwinded game on !York...
Huit heures
[Bob] Do you have a bit of a long onward journey at your destination (as train conductors like to put it)? I wouldn't have thought it would take that long to get to where you're going...
Please, please, please, please, please?
There is a spare game slot. Would anyone mind if I started up a Lost Consonants Cat Room, so as to get out of the darkened cupboard that is the old game on MCiOS?
[Im] Well I dot min at all.
*hands Kim a torch and firmly shuts the cupboard door* I'm kidding!! I jet!
.. and now for the game of Mornington Crescent
Although there are plenty of MC variants scattered around the other two sites, might it not be appropriate to use one of the two available slots in here for a new one? We only have the Long Game. Perhaps an Imposters version of some sort ... like Literary giants? Or an old classic that I'm not aware of.
Guests
I think there's two slots, so we could accomodate both Kim and Chalky.
acknowledging
Hmmm rab .. I think I'll wait to see if there's any support for my idea, or even an alternative suggestion/theme, eg. a couple of weeks ago, Huxley mentioned [in MCiOS?] the Worldwide Underground Station map which drew some favourable murmers. Mind you, I haven't seen him around much lately.
[Chalky] Indeed - there was that; also I recall (possibly) Boolbar suggesting a story game in which each player pastiches an author of his or her choice. This could be interesting...
Oddly....
...it appears that someone has decided for the masses. Oh, and the worldwide map was from me. The author game was each player "plays" an author continuing the ongoing story in their own style and trying to introduce their own characters and elements whilst removing the other authors stuff. A sort of Authors Tag Wrestling.
Yeah - what's that all about? Sound charades is up and running at Orange so there's no need for it here.
Also both new games violate the principle expounded 11 moves up. Does anyone ever actually read these things?
deciding for the masses
I just created 2 new games, cos I felt like it, which was actually purely coincidental. I wasn't trying to undermine any of the ideas on here, I promise!!! I didn't know about the sound charades at orange cos this is the only site I use *slinks away in to the corner feeling very very ashamed*
Resolution
Comments from the floor please...
Oh dear. I've just spent ages combining my and Boobar's idea into an amusing posting for here, in a blatant attempt to 'sell' the idea - now it's all gone to waste. Humph. ?

Sorry ZK ... nothing personal :-)

reading back a bit ....
I'm afraid I had a crack at you [ZK] in the Balls Game - sorry if it seemed a bit snappy. As you're probably feeling uncomfortable about the whole thing- would you like rab to 'retract' the new games, then we can go back to where we were in the discussion process?
[rab] Is that possible?
Um...
[Chalky] It might involve closing the site for a few minutes, cos although in principle I know how to do it, in practice there could be traps for the unwary... (mostly because I've not had to do it before).
Surely you can just play MC to end the games....
end the games
well - shall we just 'end' the new games before they've begun, by using the magic words .. or does that mess up the Modern Classics archive bit?
simul-posted
[Boobar] Sorry - I simul-ed. And apologies for not crediting you with the World Map of Underground Stations a little while ago :-)
AGAIN!
Jeeeeeez - I've apologised 4 times in the last half-hour.
Sorry.
[Chalky] I'm sorry to hear about your apologising problem. I hope it isn't catching!
Endings
[rab] Trust me - you do not want to be in a position where you have to learn how to retract games rapidly.
Sorry to interrupt, by the way.
Other Endings
I'm seriously wondering whether we should end the Lies game, not because it is moribund but almost precisely because it isn't: have it go out on a high, so to speak.

thinks: I wonder if there is legs in games which never end, but which automatically drop off the front page if unused. Kind of half games which don't count against the game limit but which would be, as it were, already won when they're started. Hmm...

Phantom games
As long as people don't mind there being weird zero-move games in the archive, then not formally erasing them from the database gets my vote. I think I know how to remove things as though they never existed, but that's all a bit sinister and not very nice.
So...
A new game slot! What shall we do with it?
The Authorised Version
[Boolbar] Going back to the Authors .. *thinks* .. combine my Imposters MC idea with Boobar's pastiche using both writers/poets AND characters from literature - such as:
'William Shakespeare:
So long as men can breathe or eyes can see,
Thus Shoreditch tavern proffers alms to me.
Bridget Jones:
Gah to your poxy tavern Willy-boy! The off-license in Shepherds Bush has a token collection scheme for cut-price chardonnay.'

OK - so perhaps my example is a bit crap, but you get the gist?

I have to say, I'm favouring the MC Game idea more than the continuous story - only because the recent StoryGame in MCiOS took off like a rocket and fizzled into the ether rather too quickly.

Or - gasp - you could have a story game with no MC connections at all...
backing off
rab - wasn't that the style of the MCiOS one I mentioned above? Whatever - I've made enough noise for one day - I'm still relatively new to this site and wouldn't presume to start a new game in any case. There must be all sorts of great and original ideas from the afficionados out there :-)
sotto voce
Quickfire Patience Mornington Crescent while we're waiting, anyone?
pen...
someone called ? :oD woof woof !
New games
Oh, please, not a longwinded game! I still haven't recovered from the last one. Over a year on, and I haven't yet even had the strength to open the folder it's all compiled in, and see if I want to actually try and make it into a proper novel.
I have always fancied the idea of a Who do you do? kind of game - moves in the style of famous (or obscure, in my case) authors - I tried to get the recent MCiOS story game moving in that direction, but there were few takers. I'd quite like to play a standard game of MC at some point - there seem to be only the Long Games going on atm.
But maybe there's an entirely new game out there somewhere, and all it needs is a little inspiration...

But not from me, obviously.

Pisces
I should perhaps iterate that our resident custodian of exotic fauna (trans. Zooological Keeper) is of course still welcome to ply his or her trade in these grounds. Today's little flurry of activity should not be taken as a signal of any animosity or resentment. I am merely keen to see a selection of games that will keep a reasonable number of people moderately happy for an undeterminable length of time. My personal stance (for that be the box into which I type) is that variety and originality are two virtues that have been shown to achieve that aim. I would say we don't always need a committee decision before starting a new game if the idea is particularly unusual/cute/timely/whatever; on the other hand, since slots tend to be at a premium (and I see no need to raise the limit1), it's probably a good idea - particularly with the those that come round often - to see if at least a couple of others are up for it. </Jerry's_Final_Thought> *group hug*

[1] Unless offered huge wads of cash, or favours to a similar value.

Gosh, people have figured out how to use the words "Mornington Crescent"...
Activity! Well done folks, a bit of pruning never hurt anybody. Or maybe it did, but as long as their in the minority, they'll have to lump it.
Re: the remaining slot, some sort of impostors, or in fact any of several of the suggestions above'd do. If anyone can think of anything new and exciting, go for that.
Re: what pen said, is it worth filling the time with a quick MC bash? An eleven-move puzzle one'd be what I'd post if it's still free soon.
more stories
I would be in favour of one of the story game, but with the rider that each is a short between 10-15 moves, roundabout 100 words a posting (not written in stone). Looking at the recent games of this type there is an initial flurry followed by a slow death. By reinventing a topic every several moves could allow various impostered authors amemding the style to suit. As I'm not widely read I may need to come as a character Dennis the Menace!

In other news Celebdaq is back up and I've finally made to the Players Chart front page...at No 30. Still along way to go to beat penelope who managed No6.

Errr....
[rab and all] I know I'm only fairly new around here and I don't want to tread on any toes. I think that Rab is absolutely right in that a proposal for any new game should be able to demonstrate some support. I think, from my last posting, that I have support from Penelope and Boolbar and an accommodation from Rab, so, unless there are howls of disapproval in the meantime (or some other basard nabs the slot, I will start it up tomorrow morning (GMT).
Celebdaq
Does anyone else absolutely hate the new Celebdaq look? It's bloody annoying..
the end of the list..
You know the game right down at the bottom - the one called 'oooh, I wanna try this'? Well, I've broken it. I didn't start it, btw, and I have no idea who Jack O'Neill is, but I was demonstrating and, rab, I'm sorry, it came away in my hand.
Daq
[snorgle] I don't mind it all - to be honest I found the old one somewhat dark for my liking.
Celebcaq!
[Dujon]I liked that retro look. I don't like my new icons, either. *pouts*
Game ideas
I like story games. But they tend to work best when:
a) all moves are around 1 line each (I'd point to the long-lived Film & Crescent series on !York if !York were up)
b) the moves are anonymous (e.g. this one, maybe because of multiple movers)

But I'd also like a round of "Misheard Lyrics". A bit like Spellcheck Songs (remember that from !York?), except we rewrite chosen songs using soundalike words (not lookalike words). The last game was popular, as long as we kept the songs short

Query
Hmm, some nice stuff in that referenced game, MF. The song bastardisation - how did that work? That is, one line per post or the whole kit and caboodle? This sort of thing, or am I missing the point?

"My Way" (Frank Sinatra)

Kow-tow, they send the beer;
Ah so I'll brace for the coming burton.
Please lend, me some buckshee
To save my face, or it's the slate on....

Yes, I know it's not good - just off the top of the head stuff: but is that the idea?

Eggs sealant!
Eck! Sacked Lee, thee I'd hear!
I said in the original, "write as much as you feel like"; Blob usually went and wrote the whole kit and caboodle. Gimme a sec...
That should do it...
Try here
Hmm, 4 minutes isn't bad!
Interesting

Thank you for your trouble

Sorry for the delay - I've been fighting the Geocities' pop-ups. ... :-)

Do you think it will work? There seemed to be few contributors on that one - although, even though I'm terrible with lyrics, it sounds intriguing.

After the storm
[Chalky] Reading up a lot (my word, you people typed a lot today) I've tried to find this game you had a crack at me in, but can't, so no offence taken! :)
[Duj]
thank you, yes, yes and yes. Like I said, if people kept their contributions (and the songs) short, it'd go better. And, hey, the new-found PantsMC talent'll make short work of the whole thing!
'avin' a fink
Well, I'm not going to wax lyrical about the thought so, being somewhat backward about coming forward in these matters, I shall await further comments. Given that it's early morn in the U.K. at the moment I'm assuming that any critiques will not be posted until such time as a few hours have passed us by.
Early morning
Must...go...to...sleep....
Nods
New game
So, will someone fill the slot with a game that more than one person actually wants to play before some oh so hilarious wankwit comes along and starts one with a ridiculous winning move?
Nods
The job puns seem to have gone down well on the lies game. I think this warrents a game of its own so we can all get on with bullshitting as ...so help me God intended. Unless there is an outcry in the next 15 minutes - this I will do.
Rab] 7 and a half hours to get to Stratford from Embra. Home at last - and knackered.
Dons
[Bob] Oof... don't I feel terribly northern with a mere 4 hour trek? I trust your shennanigan met an appropriate level of success.
Jobsworth
[BtD] Surely we've overdone the job puns? - we need a different thingy to get our teeth into.
shennanigans
rab] my input was particularly successful, although the conference created a huge amount of controversy...
Bool] Yes I agree, but I still think it could carry on in a themed way - e.g. relatives, the wild west, puddings etc.
recall of parliament
Has there been agreement between Lost Consonants Cat Room and a story type game

make that one more for the Lost Consnants

*raises had for lot consonants*
thirded
I agree on lost cosnants - but I still think it is time the lie game got back to some good ol' bollocks - hmmm...
Quoracy?
Would anyone lie to do the honours? I'm not very good at witty tiles.
Another hit game has begun...
In the pink
[Celebdaq] I like it, a lot more clear and easy to use. The colours could be a little less pink though. What surprised me is that I'm 4th after a pathetic % increase.
Kak 'daq
Sorry - I think the new look's utter pants (no connection with defunct MC site intended). And it's bloody slow, as well...
CelebDrag
I'll agree on the slow bit.
Cyber pilg
How did it go? Will there be more?
chattermongers
[Bob] Mayhem and insanity - and yes :-)
If you can be bothered there's some postings in here a couple of pages back.
please ignore my dreadful grammar
*resists urge to make a horrific pun*
Boo!
I wanted to call it: "Lost Consonants: this time its persona!"
woooooooooooooooo
It's pretty quiet in here - mind you, my home computer has fallen over and can't get up, so I can only access from work for now..*sniff*
Wakey-wakey
[snorgle] I'd wondered where you'd been...

[all] Good weekend?

Weekend Loveliness
It was until I was awoken at 2:30 am this morning by a mouse which sounded like it was tearing floorboards apart with its teeth.
Rugby club bonanza
Boolbar] Are you sure it wasn't a giant, white, unbearably cute mouse?
I had a good weekend apart from the R A I N. I was also vaguely aware of England’s rugby victory (I found out on Sunday morning) - which was pleasant. What was unpleasant, however, was Christmas shopping on Sunday and having to tip-toe through a minefield of pavement-pizzas - a memento of local folks celebrations.
Weekend
Mac Expo on Friday afternoon, where I picked up a copy of Panther (MacOS 10.3), followed by spending the weekend in a hotel on a personal development course. Someone announced the rugby result at some point, and half the people went "YES!" and the other half "hm?". 20-17 in the last twenty seconds of extra time, apparently.
hm?
Raak] Do you feel personally developed as a result of your course?
Ooops - re reading that it sounds dreadfully rude - I didn't mean to be. What I mean was ...erm ..well, what is a personal development course?
personally developmented
[Raak] I would love to hear more. When I worked on a national newspaper many moons ago - they sent a group of us on one of those weekends. If I remember correctly, it was a hoot. I'm wondering if 2003 methods are less ... ahem ... aggressively american.
ISIHaC - round 2
Tonight at 1830 GMT. It was much funnier than the first episode broadcast last week.
Are we meeting tonight?
ce soir
[Rab] Usual tme, usual place. I'll be the one wearing a pink mink.
yesyesyes
... and I'll be cunningly disguised as a bricklayer's mate.
The enlightened being is [IN]
[Btd] Well, I found it worth while, though it would really be up to whoever knows me to judge the effect, if any. [Chalky] Do you remember what group it was? There are a lot of these things (perhaps less so now than ten or twenty years ago), and yards of self-help books in all the bookshops. I expect that Sturgeon's Law applies. I'll write more when I have time this evening.
Pilgy Pilgy
Probably won't be along this evening since I've a lot on at work today, what with the three day week and all.
Uselessness
Apologies for uselessness but what's the "usual" time? 8ish?
Excuses . . . .
Alas, I'll be working out in the gym. Then I'm chasing mice and putting doors up.
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