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AVMA Take 2
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Yes, it's another round of that classic guessing game - Animal, Vegetable, Mineral, Abstract [or any combination thereof]. This effort - '03/'04 should address any queries, but then again, may just serve to confuse and baffle which some might say is the point of the game. Patience, integrity and a decent search engine may be useful ....
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Is it unique?
[Rosie] Thanks! Would've been nice to know when I went there every few weeks a few years ago... but at least that proves I could have been seen there, I guess
[Tuj] Not unique.
Vegetable wood?
[Rosie] Not wood.
Edible?
[CdM} Yes, edible.
Commonly eaten?
[CdM] Commonly eaten.
Eaten raw?
[Software] Not eaten raw.
A confectionary item of some sort?
[jim] I don't think this is classed as confectionary. Or confectionery.
Does it taste sweet?
[CdM re: gorilla] "the recipient will simply love it to pieces." Are they using "love" as a euphemism for "smash"?
A dish?
(I mean as in 'Fish and Chips', not as in a nice piece of Samian Ware)
[Projoy] * a ripple of polite applause* It is sweet.
[INJ] Not a dish.
Honey?
A raspberry ripple of polite applause?
[jim] Not honey (being neither cooked, nor -- apart from the occasional stray bee leg -- animal).
[CdM] Not a raspberry ripple.
Is suet involved?
[INJ] As near as I can judge from Google, this does not generally contain suet.
Jelly on a plate?
[FGZ*] Not jelly on a plate.
Can it be bought in a supermarket as a single item?
[Rosie] That sounds like two questions. Can it be bought in a supermarket? Yes. Does one buy them individually there? No.
Sold ready to eat?
[FGZ*] Ready to eat.
Rice pudding?
[FGZ*] Not rice pudding.
Generally found in the chiller cabinet?
[INJ] Brrrr? No.
Marshmallows?
[Software] Not marshmallows. (I'd class those with confectionery.)
Sweet and sour pork?
(Raak) Wasn't meant to be two questions but whether you could buy a packet of "it" in a supermarket, or anywhere.
Typically sold in a bottle, jar or can?
[Rosie] You can buy a packet of it.
[CdM] ...but not a bottle, jar, or can.
It might be profitable at this point to consider the Abstract part of this.
[Rosie] That was slightly misleading -- you can buy a packet of them.
Involves chocolate in any way? Such as a packet of "Smarties" or "M&Ms" ?
[irach] It can involve chocolate.
A cookie?
Crunchy frog?
[Rosie] Only if it's a crunchy frog cookie, as...
[CdM] ...a cookie it is. nom nom nom.
[Raak] Um, where's the baton? There seems to be just a pile of crumbs here.

This one is MINERAL and VEGETABLE.
Vegetable wood?
Wood? In part, yes.
mineral = metal?
A building?
A garden?
Metal? No.
A building? No.
A garden? No.
Significant amounts of water?
Significant amounts of water? It is going to come down a bit to the definition of "significant", but I think the best answer is No. Despite this, the audience *applauds*.
mineral = stone?
A natural feature?
A desert?
Stone? In large part, Yes
Natural feature? Yes.
Desert? No.
The Grand Canyon?
Grand Canyon? No. (Besides, someone already did that, iirc)
Near the sea?
Near the sea? Yes. *applause*
In Europe?
European? No.
Do rock climbers climb it?
A headland?
The hole in the rock, near Paihia, New Zealand?
Climbing? Yes (parts of it).
Headland? No. *tiny smattering of applause*
Incredibly long-shot guess? No.
A mountain, possibly Everest?
In the Americas?
Is it an island?
Mountain? No.
In the Americas? No.
Island? Yes. *applause*
Rockall?
Long shot.
Rockall? No. (That's in Europe, last I heard)
In Australasia?
Inhabited?
Hawaii?
Java?
Australasian? No.
Inhabited? Yes.
Hawai'i? No.
Java? No.
Has it been in the news recently?
Volcanic?
Bigger than an Arran?
Tristan de Cuhna?
Newsworthy? Not that I am aware of.
Volcanic? No.
Arranometricity? Smaller than an Arran.
Tristan de Cunha? No.
Tropical?
Fernando Po
?
Tropical? Yes.
Fernando Po
? No
.
Isolated, i.e. not part of an archipelago?
Isolated? No.
A British Overseas Territory?
BOT? No.
In the Indian Ocean?
Bikini Atoll?
In the Indian Ocean? As so often happens, seemingly easy questions end up being harder than I expect. But, based on my reading of Wikipedia, the best answer is Yes. Not to be cryptic about it, it is in a body of water with a separate name, but which is usually considered to be part of the Indian Ocean.
Bikini? No.
Bay of Bengal?
Bay of Bengal? No.
Is it an independent country?
South China Sea?
Al Hallaniyah?
One of the Maldives?
Independent country? No.
South China Sea? No. (That's part of the Pacific.)
Al Hallaniyah? No.
One of the Maldives? No.
I'll just clarify one thing: this island is part of an archipelago by the standard definition, which is pretty broad -- that is, it is part of a group of islands. But focusing on well-known archipelagos is unlikely to be helpful. (My first reaction when I read Rosie's archipelago was that this island is not part of an archipelago, and it was only when I checked the definition of the word that I decided that it in fact is.)
In the Arabian Sea?
Réunion?
Part of Africa?
Arabian? No.
Réunion? No.
African? No.
Andaman and Nicobar Islands
Andaman and Nicobar Islands? No (Wikipedia tells me they are in the Bay of Bengal).
Sentosa?
Interestingly, Wikipedia shows the Indian Ocean going as far as the Malay peninsula and therefore including my guess. However that does also mean that several hundred Indonesian islands are also possibles.
Sentosa? No.
My reading of wikipedia is, roughly speaking, that there is one pretty broad definition of ocean, whereby pretty much all salt water is included in one ocean or another. Within these oceans there are then various pieces of water that have their own names -- example, the Bay of Bengal is part of the Indian Ocean. But there is also a narrower definition, in which the oceans are basically all the unnamed left over bits.
In the East Indies?
Excuse me for having 2 goes in a row - but at least it's not a guess at the answer.
That was my understanding as well, but I hadn't really thought about the implications in that part of the world, if you're going to say that you go directly from the Indian to the Pacific ocean.
East Indian? No.
Part of Australia?
Komodo?
Australian? No.
Komodo? No.
Not sure why it is proving so hard to narrow this down, other than the fact that people are doing a fair amount of guessing of places that have already been ruled out, and people are jumping perhaps too soon to guessing particular places.

What you know: This is an inhabited non-volcanic tropical island, one of a group, smaller than the Isle of Arran, not recently in the news. Rock climbing occurs there, and it does not have significant amounts of water on it.

It is located in a named body of water that is typically understood to be in the Indian Ocean. (As long as we are taking the broad definition of ocean there is no ambiguity about which ocean it is in.)

It is not Sentosa, Réunion, Al Hallaniyah, Komodo, Java, one of the Maldives, or one of the Andaman and Nicobar islands. It is not in the Arabian Sea or the Bay of Bengal. It is not African or Australasian, or in the East Indies. It is not a British Overseas Territory.

I will tell you for free that I think you are unlikely simply to guess it without more information. I don't expect everyone here to have heard of it (it may fail the Rosie test) but I would expect some or several people to have done so. It does have a couple of claims to fame. And there was a reason why I chose it as a subject; it's not just some random small island.
Is this island inhabited by natives of the territory (as opposed to resident scientists)?
Does it have a name in English?
Phuket Island?
Was it affected by a tsunami a few years ago?
Inhabited by natives? I'd guess that most of the inhabitants are natives of the country of which this island is part, but very few would have been born on the island itself. There are also certainly some foreign residents, but I doubt if there are many scientists.
Name in English? Not exactly sure what you mean, but I think the best answer is No. (It can certainly be referred to using the English language, and in that sense the answer is yes, but I presume you mean something more than that.)
Phuket? No. *applause* (As an example to clarify my previous answer, I would say that "Phuket" is not a name in English as I understand the term; it is simply an English phonetic representation of the island's name in Thai.)
Tsunami-affected? Yes. *applause*
In the Andaman Sea?
Though if the answer is yes then we may need a clarification on the meaning of 'East Indies'.
Andaman Sea? Yes. My bad, sorry. I thought I knew the meaning of East Indies and didn't even bother to check. Turns out there's been a gap in my geographical knowledge all my life.
Yes, wikipedia's definition was wider than I expected, but since you'd already quoted wikipedia I assumed you were going with it. BTW I think I have a very good candidate for the answer, but I'll wait a couple of hours or until someone else has had a go.
OK, I'm feeling a bit less stupid now
According to Britannica online's entry on East Indies:

"Historically, the term East Indies is loosely applied to any of three contexts. The most restrictive and best-known use is as a synonym for the islands that now constitute the Republic of Indonesia (formerly known as the Netherlands Indies, or Dutch East Indies); these include the Greater Sunda Islands (Borneo, Celebes, Java, and Sumatra), the Lesser Sunda Islands (stretching eastward from Bali to Timor), the Moluccas, and New Guinea (including Papua New Guinea on the eastern half of the island). In a second, larger sense, East Indies refers to the Malay Archipelago (including the Philippines), which now is more commonly called insular (or archipelagic) Southeast Asia. Finally, in its broadest context, the term East Indies encompasses the foregoing plus all of mainland Southeast Asia and India."

By this account, islands in the Andaman sea would be included in the second definition or the third, depending in turn on the exact meaning of "Malay Archipelago", but not in the first.

On the other hand, that discussion also suggests that perhaps I should not have had reservations about including this island in an archipelago.
Were you there, either during or shortly after the tsunami?
Was I there? No. I have never been there.
Koh Phi Phi?
No, it begins with ผ
เกาะ ผีผี (pronounced Pee Pee) is indeed the correct answer. Somehow, Tuj never shows up when he is really needed. (Phi Phi actually refers to a small group of islands, but when answering I had in mind the largest, Phi Phi Don.)

One บะถน handed over.
kob kun krab. I couldn't remember the name, but I searched for 'beach movie location' as I remembered about the fuss over bringing in palm trees etc.

This next one is ANIMAL with Abstract connections

Human Animal?
[GL] Human? - YES
Alive?
[Rosie] Still with us? - NO
English-speaking? (Back when he or she was still alive enough to speak, of course)
[CdM] Anglophone? - NO
Male?
[irach] The stronger sex? - YES
Infamous?
European?
[FGZstar] Infamy, infamy? - NO
[CdM] European? - NO
Real person based on whom a movie was made?
Alive at any time during the 20th century?
[irach] Movie subject? - NO
[CdM] Around in C20? - NO
Biblical figure?
A national leader?
A single individual?
(We've been assuming that, but haven't confirmed it)
[irach] Biblical? - NO
[Rosie] National Leader? - Not as easy to answer as you'd think, as it depends on the definition of both words. I'll say NO(ish)
[CdM] individual? - YES
A state governor?
Begins with P?
[CdM] For shame! Mea culpa
Of African racial descent?
(Within the last three hundred years, I mean, since I believe we all are in another sense).
[FGZstar] gubernatorial? - NO
[Tuj] Pstarting? - NO
[Projoy] Out of Africa? - NO
From the East Indies?
(proudly flaunting my new-found knowledge)
[CdM] East Indiaman? - NO (by any definition)
Alive in the C19th?
Sonam Gyatso?
[Projoy] 19th century? - YES
[CdM] Dalai Lama(III)? - NO
From North America?
Does the abstract part of the answer on the card result from this gentleman lending his name to something or somewhere?
Spanish-speaking?
[Projoy] Unlikely (though not impossible) given that he was not an Anglophone. We're probably down to S. America, Russia or China.
[INJ] The first or the third, depending on which Wikipedia page you go to...
[Projoy] N America? - NO
[Dujon] Eponym? - NO (but don't give up on the abstract element - I reckon you need it as well)
[CdM] Hispanophone? - NO
BTW There was a slight murmur of appreciation in the audience at CdM's previous question. Also, to clarify, I don't know that the male in question spoke no English or Spanish, but it's unlikely and they certainly weren't his first language.
Hannibal?
Have you read any of the previous answers?
[FGZstar] Hannibal? - NO (of course there could be a Hannibal who didn't come from Africa and was alive in the 19th Century)
Associated with a specific religion?
[CdM] Mm. Lots of non-Anglophones in Mexico, I'd've thought, in the C19th, not to mention now, and I daresay some indigenous North American people in the C19th might not have spoken English...
[Projoy] A specific religion? - YES *applause*
From Asia?
[Projoy] Asian? - YES
[CdM et al] An apology is in order from me this time. I have had another look at Wikipedia and by the longest stretch of the definition with the longest stretch he could be described as from the East Indies - just not by any use of the term I've ever come across. Can we agree going forward that we'll only use the term for the Malay/Indonesia/Borneo/Phillipines etc. archipelagos?
From China (C19 borders)?
[Projoy] Chinese? - NO
Do you know the name of this individual?
[Projoy] I didn't mean unlikely in the sense that it was unlikely you'd be able to find a non-Anglophone in N. America. I meant unlikely that the solution to this AVMA would be North American and non-Anglopohone. If you see what I mean.
[CdM] Do I know his name? - YES, and I would accept that - but that's not what's on the card.
from Asia Minor?
[Projoy] Little Asia? - NO
From the Middle East?
[Projoy] Middle Eastern? - NO (Between you & CdM you've straddled the target very well)
From India?
[FGZstar] From India? - Depends - Not from somewhere that is currently in India.
From what is now Pakistan?
Well, that was a bit painful
[Projoy] Land of the Pure? - YES *relieved applause*
Gotama Siddhattha?
[GL] Sid Arthur? - NO (wrong country and 2400 years too early)
Dalip Singh Sukerchakia (aka The Last Maharajah)?
(yes, I looked him up)
Actually, he probably spoke English, didn't he? Hm...
Ranjit Singh, Lion of the Punjab?
(aka "Napoleon of the East", to boot)
[Projoy] Last Maharajah? - NO
Lion of the Punjab? - NO
You're right, it's quite plausible that the person in question had some English given where and when he lived, but I don't know that and it wouldn't be helpful to know in any way I can think of.
P.S. Don't forget the Abstract - there's more to it than just a nickname.
Is this person popularly supposed to be divine in some way?
And I'm not talking about a fabulous hairdo.
[Projoy] Divinity? - NO but *some applause*
Imran Khan?
Is The Answer the title of a person or an office they would hold?
Hm. I must admit I'm even drawing a blank with Wikipedia on this one.
Does the abstract element link to some present-day phrase or saying?
[Software] Imran Khan - NO
[Projoy] Titular? - YES *another small ripple of applause*
[CdM] Phrase or saying? - NO
I think you're only a couple of questions away - in fact, if you came up with the answer I think you would have a pretty good idea that it was correct. The religious element was important, but I had no idea it existed when I chose the subject and I expect it's not really going to help much except as confirmation. The abstract link is probably the key.
Does the title take the form "The X of X"?
(Or rather, the X of Y, I suppose)
[Projoy] 'X of Y'? - YES *the audience starts getting coats and bags together*
Is the "Y" a specific city, such as Lahore?
[Projoy] Why a city? - NO, not a city
Not the Nawab of Pataudi, shurely?
[Rosie] The Noob? - NO (Assuming you mean Iftikir or Mansoor Ali Khan, the cricketers, then it's wrong century & country again)
Is the "Y" the name of a "nation" - e.g. a body of people even if not necessarily a recognised state?
[Projoy] Nation/people - Let me put it this way. It's the name of a geographical area and, by extension, the people who inhabit it. Whether they constituted a 'nation' or 'people' at the time is less clear.
Is the area Punjab?
[Projoy] - Punjab? NO
BTW it would be a bit of a blow if someone else were to jump in and get it now, wouldn't it? (This the last time I'll say it, but - Abstract?)
OK - the abstract connection... to do with a published work of fiction?
[Projoy] Printed Page? - YES *audience perk up again*
Fiction? - Category Error (If forced, I would say Yes, but that's misleading)
Is this person mentioned in a religious work?
The Akond of Swat, as in Edward Lear's "Who or which or why or what, Is the Akond of Swat"...?
Well, there you go
After all Projoy's hard work!!!
It is The Akond of Swat (or Akhund, if you prefer) - Muslim Saint and key regional figure on the NW frontier of the late C18 and first half of C19, but much better known these days because of Mr Lear.
The baton passes to irach.
Not kicking myself
It's OK. I hadn't actually heard of the AoS, so probably would have taken me several days more working solo!
Profanity restraint.
Two in succession I haven't heard of. This is so-ooo boring.
[Rosie, all] Constructive suggestion: perhaps when a player sets a new answer, they could email it to Rosie first, and he can confirm he's heard of it before the round commences. That way, there'll be a more level playing field.
This one is ANIMAL.
Human?
Alive?
[Glogin] Yes, human.
[Projoy] Dead as a doornail.
Unique individual?
Female?
[CdM] ? . . . ;)
[Dujon] As opposed to a collection of humans. And also, perhaps, as opposed to an individual defined by his or her role (e.g., 'The British Prime Minister'), so at any moment the answer is an individual, but that individual is not the only person to have held that role. But yes, "specific" rather than "unique" might have been a bit less of a tautological repetition of the same thing.
From a country which has English as one of its official languages?
Died in C20?
[CdM] Yes, a unique named individual.
[Dujon] No, not female.
[FGZ*] No, no English speak.
[Pro :)] Did not die in C20.
Died in C21?
Died in C19?
A political figure?
A deeply religious chap?
[CdM] My aplogies, but I couldn't resist. Your response had me chuckling out loud. Thanks.
European?
[Rosie] Sorry you feel that way about it, but I don't consider one of Edward Lear's best-known poems to be obscure and the Swat valley has been in the news quite a lot in the last few years. The other information about him was new to me.
A renowned thinker?
[Gusset Login] Did not die in C21.
[Projoy] Did not die in C19.
[CdM] A political figure... yes, in a manner of speaking.
[Dujon] As far as I know nothing is really known if or whether the individual was a deeply religious chap or not.
[ImNotJohn] Not European.
[FGZStar] He certainly had a following, but was not specifically known as a philosopher-type renowned thinker.
Primarily known as a warrior?
[ImNotJohn] In some biographical accounts, he is known as a warrrior.
Died after CE1500?
From the Indian subcontinent?
[Projoy] Yes, he died after CE 1500.
[Raak} Not from the Indian subcontinent.
Died before CE1700?
[Projoy] Yes, died before CE 1700
Chinese?
Was he an artist of some sort?
[INJ] Well, the poem was about the fact he knew nothing about him... ;)
[Raak] Not Chinese.
[Tuj] Not an artist.
South American?
So far this man seems to have been singularly unimpressive. Was he Russian?
[Projoy] Not South American.
[Dujon] Not Russian.
The leader of a group of people?
From North America?
(by which I mean everything from the Panama isthmus to Alert)
Begins with P?
From the territory that would later be the USSR?
[ImNotJohn] Yes! The leader of a group of people.
[Projoy} Yes, from North America (the audience sits up, roused from slumber induced by apathy, and now bristles with anticipation).
[Tuj] Does not begin with "P".
[Raak] See the last response to Projoy. Therefore, "Nyet".
Of European ethnicity?
From Mexico?
[Rosie] Not of European ancestry.
[Projoy] Yes. Si, si! Méxicano.
Moctezuma II?
Moctezuma II it is. A baton shaped like an Aztec battle mace, decorated with quetzal feathers is handed over to Projoy!
Koh Phi Phi (potassium hydroxide, half of one plus root five, half of one plus root five), The Akond of Swat, as opposed to the Akond of Chemical Insect Repellant, and Moctezuma II, presumably related to the Retributively Laxative One. You children are all far too clever for me.
[Rosie] Yep, Moctezuma II is better known to many (including me up to a few moments before I made my guess) simply as Montezuma. I daresay irach would have accepted that answer too...
OK, the next is ABSTRACT
The unbearable lightness of being?
The set of things Rosie knows?
Dismay?
Abstractness?
[jim] Lightness? *some audience laughter* NO
[INJ] What Rosie Knew? NO, altho I considered very seriously setting that!
[Phil] Dismay or Datmay? NO
[Raak] A study in abstraction? NO, altho I wish I had thought to set that.
A way of life?
Related to the arts?
Begins with P?
[Knobbly] A way of life? NO
[INJ] Related to the arts? YEAH, SOMEWHAT
[Tuj] Begins with P? YES
(Hypothesis: the discovery of the initial letter always encourages players to start making random guesses much earlier than they otherwise would, resulting in slower actual progress toward the answer. However, drawing players' attention to this hypothetical phenomenon might counteract the effect by nudging them toward persistence with deductive questioning instead of randomly guessing words beginning with P for three days.)
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