arrow_circle_left arrow_circle_up arrow_circle_right
AVMA Take 2
help
Yes, it's another round of that classic guessing game - Animal, Vegetable, Mineral, Abstract [or any combination thereof]. This effort - '03/'04 should address any queries, but then again, may just serve to confuse and baffle which some might say is the point of the game. Patience, integrity and a decent search engine may be useful ....
arrow_circle_up
More precisely, it's not a physical construction, or a physical anything. 'Bigger than a toaster' refers to the animal connection, not the thing itself.
Is it something like 'on the horns of a dilema'?
Software] Is it something like 'on the horns of a dilema'? It's not entirely unlike, but it's nowhere close.
Is the answer a phrase, proverb etc?
Rosie] Is the answer a phrase, proverb etc? *applause, cheering, etc* Yes!
Is the animal connection human?
Is the phrase a kind of warning?
CdM] Is the animal connection human? Yes
Rosie] Is the phrase a kind of warning? No
A white elephant?
Though I struggle with the mineral.
Is the answer a proverb (pace Rosie)?
Software - A white elephant? No - the mineral is implied in the answer, but not named. And don't forget the vegetable.
Kim - Is the answer a proverb (pace Rosie)? Barking up the wrong tree.
Is the vegetaale a fruit?
Is it the Jolly Green Giant?
Inkspot - Is the vegetable a fruit? *applause mixed with laughter from the audience* Yes
Kim - Is it the Jolly Green Giant? No no no
The apple of one's eye?
(Irg) Kim wishes me peace.
Rosie] The apple of one's eye? No
Or he's trying to drink at the same speed as you...
Is the fruit a commonplace edible item?
(Irg) No chance, then. :-)
Rosie] Is the fruit a commonplace edible item? Yes
Is the fruit a citrus?
The Big Apple?
CdM] Is the fruit a citrus? The answer's not a lemon
irach] The Big Apple? NYet
The Garden of Eden?
Is the phrase in question also the title of a work of lliterature
Rosie] The Garden of Eden? Adam fine question - but no
irach] Is the phrase in question also the title of a work of literature? No
So angry I could crush a grape?
Is the answer the title of an artistic work?
Inkspot] So angry I could crush a grape? Ire think not
Kim] Is the answer the title of an artistic work? No
Is the fruit a berry?
The fruit of our labours?
Kim] Is the fruit a berry? *laughter, followed by earnest audience discussion* Probably, yes
Software - The fruit of our labours? No
A berry by name, but not by strict definition?
A blackberry?
** motions towards ear **
Is it green and goes up and down in a lift? A gooseberry?
Graham III] A berry by name, but not by strict definition? No - other way round (probably)
Software - A blackberry? No
Inkspot} Is it green and goes up and down in a lift? A gooseberry? Possibly, unlikely, and no.
Is it a berry within the botanical (as opposed to common) meaning of the word?
Kim] Is it a berry within the botanical (as opposed to common) meaning of the word? *applause* Yes (probably)
'Probably' because the exact meaning of the word on the card is ambiguous, but this is the most likely meaning.
Is the human connection one or more actual persons?
The phrase :"A loaf of bread, a jug of wine and thou beside me?"
Kim] Is the human connection one or more actual persons? *much discussion in the audience* If actual=named, then yes.
irach - The phrase :"A loaf of bread, a jug of wine and thou beside me?" And wilderness is paradise, e? no
Are the named persons fictional characters?
Kim] Are the named persons fictional characters? I refer the honourable gentleman to his previous question. Fictional - almost certainly (though I have seen one website that says the opposite).
Is the berry a grape?
Resisting the temptation to ask whether it is "Attack of the killer kumquats"
Graham III] Is the berry a grape? No
I say tomahto and you say tomayto?
Is the human element a collection of individuals (eg, a class, a group, etc)
ImNotJohn] I say tomahto and you say tomayto? *some applause* No, nay
Kim - Is the human element a collection of individuals (eg, a class, a group, etc) No
Yankee Doodle Dandy?
Is the answer a popular food product?
Software - Yankee Doodle Dandy? No sirree
Kim - Is the answer a popular food product? No - a food product is two of the words on the card, but it's not the answer
Heinz Baked Beans?
Graham III - Heinz Baked Beans? No
Is it a jam or marmalade?
irach] Is it a jam or marmalade? No
Is it ice cream?
A fruit milk shake?
Kim] Is it ice cream? Nein (ty), nein
irach - A fruit milk shake? No
Is the food product shown on the card normally sweet-tasting?
Kim] Is the food product shown on the card normally sweet-tasting? *applause* No
Is the berry an olive?
Popeye and Olive Oil?
CdM - Is the berry an olive? *some applause* No
irach - Popeye and Olive Oil? No
Is the fruit pickled?
irach] Is the fruit pickled? *the audience rise as one person, cheering* YES!
Can one find this on the supermarket shelf today?
Software] Can one find this on the supermarket shelf today? One can find products with the same name on supermarket shelves - whether they are exact product referred to is doubtful.
Is it an ethnic food from the East?
Is the answer in the form 'so-and-so's such-and-such'?
irach] Is it an ethnic food from the East? No
ImNotJohn] Is the answer in the form 'so-and-so's such-and-such'? *cries of 'oooh' from the audience* No, but not that far off - in two ways.
Actually, the audience should have applauded part of irach's question.
Does it involve mango?
irach] Does it involve mango? No mag
Does it involve citrus?
Phileas Fogg's gentleman's relish?
irach] Does it involve citrus? No, Mel
Software] Phileas Fogg's gentleman's relish? No

It's Friday, it's five o'clock, it's Crackerjack! time for a summary, I feel

The whole thing takes the form of something described by “a phrase, proverb, etc”, though it is not a proverb. It includes two words describing a food product, and the name(s) of one or more persons, who is/are almost certainly fictional. The human element is not a collection of persons.

The food is derived from a fruit. Although the exact meaning of the word on the card is ambiguous, the fruit in question is almost certainly a berry, botanically speaking. The fruit is not lemon, blackberry, gooseberry, grape, mango, tomato or olive (though the last two got some applause), and it is not normally sweet-tasting. It is a common-place edible item.

The food product is pickled (sale being the mineral implied in the answer). It is not Heinz baked beans, jam or marmalade, ice cream, or a fruit milk shake. You can find food products with the same name on supermarket shelves, though they are probably not the exact product referred to in the words on the card. It is not an ethnic food from the East, though part of that question garnered applause.

The phrase is not a kind of warning, or the title of a literary or artistic work. [Note – the phrase may have been used as a title, but that’s not where you know it from] The phrase is not: the apple of one’s eye; so angry I could crush a grape; the fruit of our labours; a loaf of bread, a jug of wine, and thou beside me; Popeye and Olive Oil; Yankee Doodle Dandy. The phrase does not take the form 'so-and-so's such-and-such', but that is close in two distinct ways.

This game is missing one of its usual players, who might well have got this by now, or at least posed a particularly pertinent question.
It is associated with Indian food?
A pound of....?
Peter piper's pickled pepper?
... Or rather, the entire phrase "Peter Piper picked a peck of pickled pepper" ?
Begin with the letter P?
Capers?
Well, we've a worthy winner! The complete Peter Piper phrase it is - one pepper-flavoured baton handed over to irach.
The next is ABSTRACT WITH MINERAL AND PROBABLE VEGETABLE CONNECTIONS `
Is this a phrase?
[Software] Yes, a phrase.
Does this phrase relate to extraterrestial bodies - or body?
[Dujon] Totally terrestrial.
Is the mineral a liquid?
[irach] Not a liquid.
Is the mineral reference rock?
Old as the hills?
Shut up at the back there.
is the probable vegetable wood?
Is it culturally specific to English?
[Dujon] Not a rock.
[Rosie} Not "old as the hills".
[Iroulëguy] The probable vegetable is not wood
[ImNotJohn] the phrase was coined in English, but is not culturally specific.
Is the mineral combustible?
[Rosie] The mineral is non-combustible.
Could the phrase be construed as a "saying"?
[Software} Not a "saying", but a frequently used term.
Is the mineral component mainly metal?
Is the mineral metal?
[Inkspot],[Phil] The mineral IS metal.
I feel rather silly now - oops!
[Phil] Actually, that was a great and very relevant question from you -there is a difference in the material being mostly metal or being metal entirely.
Ferrous?
Or ferric.
[irach] Not ionic as in ferrous or ferric, but ferrum, yes.
Does "the phrase" refer to the strength or durability of the ferrous metal?
[irach] For the most part, yes. Actually the phrase or term also has/had a physical aspect to it; although it is generally used in an abstract sense.
A cast-iron case?
Does the word "iron" appear on the card?
[Rosie] Not a cast=iron case.
[CdM] It does indeed.
An iron will?
[Rosie] Not an iron will.
The iron curtain?
[Cdm] The "iron curtain" it is. Take it away.
A near lurker's victory there. Anyway, this one is ABSTRACT with ANIMAL connections.
Bach's 'Air on a G string'?
A classical thong? No.
Human animal?
Human Animals? Yes. The animal connections are human.
A human construct?
artistic connections?
Human construct? Yes (with a fairly broad definition of 'construct')
Artistic connections? There are some artistic connections, but they are tangential. The words on the card do not refer to something artistic.
Is it a phrase or saying?
Phrase or saying? Well, strictly speaking the words on the card do constitute a phrase, but it is not a saying or proverb or adage or aphorism or anything of that kind.
Does this relate to a particular human being?
Phew! That 'whoops!' button's really useful.
Anything to do with the law?
Any sporting connection?
A particular human being? Not a particular human being, but the animal connections are to particular individuals, Yes.
To do with the law? That's a tricky one. My first response was No, but on reflection a better answer might be Yes, absolutely!
Sporting connection? The least misleading answer is clearly No, though you can make a case for Yes.
Anything to do with the Olympic Games, current or otherwise?
Olympian? No. (Again, I can make a case for a very tangential Yes, but sport is not a fruitful line of enquiry.)
Are the particular individuals from a particular country or culture?
Does the phrase relate to a human activity?
From a particular country or culture? Yes. *applause*
Human activity? Yes, for a reasonably broad interpretation of "activity".
Connected to political activity?
Connected to political activity? Yes. *sustained applause*
The US Democratic convention?
British?
A legislature?
Denver Demfest '08? No.
British? No. *some muttering in the audience*
A legislature? No.
English?
A referendum?
Concerning the EU?
English? No.
A referendum? No. *some audience laughter*
EU-related? No.
Does this pertain to an African country's election process?
Is the country/culture in Europe?
African country's election process? No and No.
In Europe? Yes.
(I suppose that while my answer to African country was unequivocal, I should note that there is at least a tangential connection to "election process".)
A current news story?
A country or culture formerly part of the USSR?
A Dutch treat?
Current news? No.
USSR? No.
Dutch treat? No.
Does it involve a change in power in a country?
Gerrymandering?
Does it relate to a specific European country?
The French Revolution?
Does it involve a change in power in a country? No. *applause*
Gerrymandering? No.
Relate to a specific European country? Yes. (A case could be made for No, but it would be misleading.)
French revolution? No. *more applause*
Treaty of Versailles?
Treaty of Versailles? No. *audience sits in stony silence*
Anything to do with royalty?
A failed revolution/coup/uprising?
To do with royalty? No (except tangentially).
A failed revolution/coup/uprising? Yes! *sustained applause*
The Spanish Civil War?
Spanish Civil War? No.
Did it happen in Czechoslovakia (as was)?
Czequered past? No.
The Landing at Dunkirk?
Dunkirk Landing? No.
Was the uprising against a colonial power?
Involving Napoleon Bonaparte, 1812 and Russia?
Uprising against a colonial power? Yes.
Napoleonic? No.
The Black Hole of Calcutta?
Black Hole of Calcutta, Europe? No.
The Easter Rising, Dublin 1916?
Uprising of Gaul against Julius Caesar in 52 BC?
We have a winner! The words on the card were "The Easter Rising". *hands an orange and green baton to Irouléguy*
I agree with the mutterers when Rosie asked "British" and you said "No". Ireland was part of Britain in 1916, and remained so until 1920, IIRC. There are some that say Ireland is still part of Britain, but not "Great Britain", but I think that's a bit over(t)ly confrontational.
[Phil] Well, it all comes down to the meaning of Britain.
My preferred usage has always been to treat Britain and Great Britain as synonymous, referring (as a geographical term) to the island which makes up the bulk of England, Scotland and Wales, and more generally (and as a political term) to England + Scotland + Wales. Another view is that Britain (but not, I think, Great Britain) is synonymous with the UK; this seems to be your preferred usage. Wikipedia points me both to the Guardian style guide, which claims that "Britain is the official short form of United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland", and also points to a quote from a British government website that says "the term 'Britain' is used informally to mean the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" [my emphasis in both quotes].

So, having gone most of my life thinking I understood these demarcations perfectly, I'm now not sure. If anyone can point me to an official site which disambiguates "Britain" and "Great Britain" conclusively, I'd be grateful.

There is another subtlety (and here I am convinced, or almost), which is that "British" perhaps has a wider meaning than simply "pertaining to Britain". It is true, for example, that my passport of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland describes me as a British citizen. On the basis of that distinction, I would accept that perhaps I should have said "yes" to "British?" though I might still disagree with your claim that "Ireland was a part of Britain in 1916". In any case, I thought my answer together with the audience muttering was a sufficiently non-misleading response.
To follow up, here are two sites that both seem reasonably reliable and that, taken together, support the view that (i) "British" has a meaning that extends beyond Britain in the specific case of nationality, but that (ii) using "Britain" to refer to the UK is at best informal and at worst incorrect. Here, we read:
BRITAIN. The informal name for the United Kingdom.
BRITISH is the formal designation of the nationality of citizens of the United Kingdom, and of certain others.
Compare with the following from here.
The adjective "British" is, of course, used in relation to Great Britain but there is also a common tendency to use it when referring to issues relating to both Great Britain and the United Kingdom. This is inaccurate and from a legal point of view erroneous. [emphasis mine]

Sometimes, however, in legislation the term "British" is used to refer to the United Kingdom as a whole, especially in matters relating to the question of nationality.

I'm not sure I am much wiser.
[CdM] I must re-examine myself. I have never in the past confused the UK with GB. I can't understand why I posted that. Although the time-stamp might explain it :-)
Phil, CdM] From another angle, I thought CdM's answer was fine, in that the participants in the 1916 rising certainly didn't think of themselves as British.

At one point Wikipedia suggests that Britain might be used for the island alone, and Great Britain for England, Scotland & Wales (ie including the Isle of Wight, Anglesey and so on), but it doesn't give a source for this, and I'm not sure why anyone except geographers would need such a distinction.

Anyway, our next is ABSTRACT, containing ANIMAL and VEGETABLE with a small amount of MINERAL.

Animal human?
A balanced diet?
Rosie - Animal human? No
irach - A balanced diet? *applause* No
Is the answer related to a food item?
[Phil] But note from my first comment that the Guardian style guide supports your original objection.
A loaded coffin?
CdM - Is the answer related to a food item? Yes
Dujon - A loaded coffin? No
A type of sandwich?
A pie of some kind?
Part of a specialised diet?
irach] A type of sandwich? No
CdM] A pie of some kind? Ye-es
Rosie] Part of a specialised diet? *giggles from the audience* Possibly
Shepherd's Pie?
irach] Shepherd's Pie? No
A Cornish pasty?
Named after a person?
Rosie} A Cornish pasty? *applause* No
Graham III] Named after a person? No
Humble pie?
Named after a place or area?
Raak] Humble pie? No. The ABSTRACT was probably a mistake - this is edible
Rosie] Named after a place or area? *applause* Yes
Yorkshire pudding?
irach] Yorkshire pudding? Nay, lad
Devon cheesecake?
Bet that's wrong.
Is the place or area in UK?
Rosie] Devon cheesecake? You win the bet
CdM - Is the place or area in UK? *applause* Yes
Is this an edible item with a metaphorical meaning?
Is the animal element the meat of the animal?
CdM] Is this an edible item with a metaphorical meaning? Not really, no (it's not clear where the name comes from, but it's probably not a metaphor).
Graham III - Is the animal element the meat of the animal? Yes!
Is the animal a pig?
Is the animal named or directly implied (e.g., pork) by the words on the card?
The Dunmow Flitch?
Bigsmith] Is the animal a pig? Often (though not in all recipes)
CdM] Is the animal named or directly implied (e.g., pork) by the words on the card? *audience members of a certain age giggle* No
Raak] The Dunmow Flitch? No
Scotch egg?
That's wrong as well.
Rosie] Scotch egg? No
Welsh rarebit?
Thrashing around in the dark.
Melton Mowbray Pork Pie?
*hangs his head in shame*
Rosie - Welsh rarebit? No
Graham III - Melton Mowbray Pork Pie? No
Is pastry involved?
Or bread?
Rosie - Is pastry involved? Yes
Bigsmith - Or bread? No
The Fleet Street "Long pork" pies of Sweeney Todd?
Is it a dessert?
irach] The Fleet Street "Long pork" pies of Sweeney Todd? No - see Rosie's earlier question about the animal being human.
Rosie] Is it a dessert? *applause, followed by lengthy discussion* Yes and no (more accurately, no and yes)
Wakefield Pie?
(Pork and rhubarb - delicious!)
Is it sweet?
as opposed to savoury.
ImNotJohn - Wakefield Pie? No, I've not come across that - sounds great!
Graham III - Is it sweet? Partially
as opposed to savoury? No (ie it's both)
Is this essentially a Cornish pasty by some other name and location?
Sweet and sour eel pasty?
CdM] Is this essentially a Cornish pasty by some other name and location? Um, no - it has a distinct USP. It might well look like a Cornish pasty, though, and parts of it might well taste like one.
Raak - Sweet and sour eel pasty? Eww! No
Shropshire Fidget pie?
Just to clarify, I always understood the traditional Cornish pasty to contain two separate fillings: one meat-and-potato-based and one fruit-based. Is the USP that you refer to something other than this?
(A little googling reveals that although this form of the Cornish pasty is mentioned in many places, it is much less of a defining feature than I had thought.)
Graham III - Shropshire Fidget pie? No
CdM] *applause* Yes, that is the USP. But I took your earlier question to mean a present-day Cornish pasty, which as far as I know is just a savoury.
A Bedfordshire Clanger?
wikipedia is my friend
CdM] A Bedfordshire Clanger? YES! Wikipedia is indeed your friend (where do you think I got it from?) One pork and raspberry baton handed over to CdM.
Never 'eard of it. Stupid. What's the point?
I'm with Rosie on that (though maybe not quite so forcefully). Sometimes you may have to do research to get the answer, but it shouldn't be 'pick one from a list at random'. I think the best answers are ones where, either the majority of players will have heard of it, or you're pleased to have had this thing drawn to your attention.
(INJ) Yeah, a bit "forceful" (as usual) but I was annoyed that I'd wasted time and thought with no chance whatever of hitting on the answer. The only Bedfordshire Clanger I can think of is the management of Luton Town FC.
This is obviously going to be one of those perennial debates here. There is room to disagree about where to draw the lines, but this is an online forum, which does make it different playing AVMA here rather than as a parlour game. I don't think there is any harm in subjects that require a bit of googling. As indeed this next one might for some people; I don't know.

MINERAL
(On reflection, this almost certainly has a significant VEGETABLE component as well.)
Is it fossilised?
Fossilised? No.
Used in construction?
Used in construction? No.
Is this a natural amalgam of its constituent materials?
Natural? In the sense in which I presume you mean the term, No.
Here is a clarification of the category that will hopefully make things nicely more muddled. :-)
The words on the card refer to something that can be reasonably interpreted relatively narrowly, or a bit more broadly. In both cases we are talking about something primarily mineral, and I can do no more than make educated guesses about the vegetable component. Under the narrow definition, my guess is that the vegetable component is present, but small. Under the broader definition, the vegetable component is surely more prominent, but the mineral component still clearly dominates.
(To be honest, you will probably make more progress if you ignore the vegetable component.)
Rossington Colliery Grade 2B Hards?
Bog standard food for steam locos.
Diesel substitute? No.
Is there only one of it?
Unique? Yes.
Is it fixed in a single location?
Fixed in a single location? Yes. *a smattering of applause*
Larger than a telephone box?
Larger than a telephone box? Yes.
Is the mineral metalic?
Metallic? There is some metal involved, but most of the mineral component is not metallic.
Is it a building?
A building? Yes. *applause*
Is it in Europe?
In Europe? Yes.
Is it in the UK?
Is it north of Paris? (oblig)
Thanks to CdM for his defence, and apologies to those who thought my last was a waste of time - I mostly agree with INJ's criteria and thought it fitted :(
A public building?
In the UK? No.
North of Paris? Yes.
Public building? No. *animated discussion in the audience, plus applause for the question*
Does the building house scientific activity?
Does the building house scientific activity? Yes.
Was it built before 1900?
Built before 1900? Yes.
Greenwich Observatory?
Greenwich Observatory? No.
Is it mostly made of concrete?
Mostly made of concrete? No.
Was it built before 1800?
Built before 1800? No.
Is it in a Scandanavian country?
Connected with astronomy?
In a Scandinavian country? No.
Connected with astronomy? No.
Is it part of a university?
Part of a university? No.
To do with botany?
Botanical? No.
Is it a museum?
Is it in a Francophone country?
Engineering?
Museum? No.
In a Francophone country? No.
Engineering? If you mean, "is it connected to engineering?" then the answer is "only tangentially".
Connected with power generation?
Connected with power generation? No.
The dog that didn't bark
Before you spend too much time on the current avenue of questioning, you might want to observe that there was a question where the audience was notable for its lack of reaction.
Was it Rosie's question about "scientific activity"?
Was it Rosie's question? Yes. (The building in question does house scientific activity, but that is not its primary function.)
Is it in the UK?
Is it a library?
Is it a museum?
In Germany?
[Rosie] Not in UK
Maritime/ocean connections?
In the UK? Still No. It is in a fixed location, remember. :-)
Library? No.
Museum? Still No.
In Germany? No.
Maritime/ocean connection? Yes.*applause*
A structure in the ocean rather than on land?
In the ocean rather than on land? No.
Is it in mainland Europe?
Would this be an aquarium?
Is it in Poland?
Had to get the letter "p" in there somewhere.
Is it in mainland Europe? No.
Would this be an aquarium? It would not.
Is it in Poland? Positively not.
This is fictional, isn't it?
Fictional? No. Not at all abstract. Very solidly mineral.
In Ireland?
In Ireland? No.
Cleopatra's Needle?
Is it surrounded by water?
Is it a lighthouse?
Eddystone lighthouse?
(as flerdle beat me to my next question by an hour)
Cleopatra's Needle? No. We've established (twice!) that it's not in the UK
Surrounded by water? No.
A lighthouse? Yes! *applause*
Eddystone Lighthouse? No. (Not in the UK, remember...)
Is it in a Nordic country?
Splitting hairs, but...
In a Nordic country? No.
In a Baltic country?
In a Baltic country? No.
Roter Sand lighthouse?
Roter Sand Lighthouse? No.
Is it in Iceland?
Splitting atoms...
Is it in Iceland? I am amazed it took this long for someone to ask!



No.
The Low Countries?
The Low Countries? No.
Is it in Russia?
In Russia? No.
In which case - was it built in 1818?
Was it built in 1818? Well, it was partly built in 1818, and partly prior to then, but ... *tumultuous applause*
Does it shine over an inland sea or lake?
Is it actually a double lighthouse?
In the Crown Dependencies?
The Casquets Lighthouse?
Shine over an inland sea? No.
A double lighthouse? There is a second light, yes. (Just answer it, Irouléguy!)
In the Crown Dependencies? Yes! *applause, mingled with cries of "What took you so long, Software?!"*
Casquets? No.
*grins*
Calf of Man, High and Low?
Calf of Man, High and Low? *applause* but ... No. (Maybe Irg had it wrong as well...)
Is it on or around Guernsey?
I was wrong - I thought it was Calf of Man too. And I'm probably away from my computer this weekend, which is why I'm avoiding taking the baton.
Corbiere lighthouse?
Corbiere? No.
Perhaps someone should ask the other pertinent question.
Is it currently in use?
Currently in use? Yes.
There is easily enough information now for anybody to get the answer with 15 seconds of googling.
Is it on the Isle of Man?
I don't have the time to set one either, but this has been great fun.
On the Isle of Man? Yes.
(*The two remaining members of the audience applaud half-heartedly*)
Is it by any chance the Point of Ayre Lighthouse?
Only because IRG & flerdle, who got to it before me, are too busy.
Point of Ayre?
Ha! Simulposted! Just what is the point of Ayre?
The Point of Ayre Lighthouse, Isle of Man, !UK, is indeed the answer. *hands red and white flashing baton to Phil*
I think this one will be quite quick, I think: ANIMAL
Denis Wise?
Human?
As opposed to Rosie's choice.
An individual?
[Rosie] The Poison Dwarf? NO
[Software] A human? NO
[Raak] An individual? YES (with a very, very, very nerdy trace of NO)
A pet?
[Rosie] A pet? YES *applause*
Lassie?
[CdM] Lassie? NO
Dick Whittington's cat?
[Rosie] DW's Cat? NO
Timmy?
[Dujon] Timmy? NO
Currently alive?
[CdM] Currently alive? NO
Greyfriars Bobby?
Scooby Dooby Doo?
[irach] Greyfriars Bobby? NO
Hidden textincidentally, one of only two films to make my daughter cry

[Projoy] The world's most famous Great Dane? NO
A fictional character?
[Rosie] A fictional character? NO *applause for a good question*
The hamster allegedly consumed by Freddy Starr?
A mammal?
[Rosie] Freddie Starr's Hamster Jam? NO
[CdM} A mammal? YES
Canine?
[irach] Canine? YES *more applause*
Used to be on television?
Rin-Tin-Tin?
Lassie?
[Irouléguy] Used to be on TV? YES *quite a bit more applause*
[Software] & [Kim] I hate to be the one to break the news to you, but Rin-Tin-Tin & Lassie are fictional, so that's a NO to both questions. :-)
Petra (original and surreptitious replacement)?
Shep?
(a logical follow-up question)
[Kim] Petra? YES! Congrats!
I only read about the replacement last week, hence the nerdy "not an individual" answer to Raak's question earlier. Now I need some sleep, having worked about 60 hours in the last 4 days.
*Takes the baton in his mouth and buries it in the back garden*
OK, given the brouhaha over my last attempt to set a poser, I am going to stick this time with a fairly safe ANIMAL
A pair of hands?
[Irouléguy] Not as such.
Human?
[irach] Human? Yes.
Living?
[Rosie] Living? No.
Associated with music?
Male?
Fingers touching (or nearly so)?
European?
[irach] Associated with music? Yes. *Burst of loud applause*
[Rosie] Male? Yes.
[Dujon] Fingers touching? Eh? Please clarify.
[INJ] European? Yes.
A composer?
Mozart?
[Irg] Composer? Yes.
[irach] Which one?
Wolfie, for the love of God?
Leopold Mozart?
Franz Xaver Wolfgang Mozart?
If all else fails....
aka Kim
[Rosie, Projoy, Phil] Not Amadeus, Leopold, Franz Xaver, nor (to save anyone else the bother of trawling endlessly through Wiki) Maria Anne, Carl Bleedin' Philip Emmanuel, PDQ or any other Mozart. Sorry...
What about Irouléguy's suggestion?
[Projoy] What about reading before posting?
[Projoy] Fair cop.
A baroque composer?
[Projoy] Baroque? Technically, no.
German?
Pre-Baroque?
Handel?
(Kim) CPE and PDQ weren't Mozarten; they were Bach(whatever the plural is).
[irach] German? No.
[Projoy] Pre-baroque? Technically, yes.
[Rosie] Handel? No (and, yes, I knew that).
European?
[Projoy] I refer the Hon. Gent. to the answer I gave ImNotJohn yesterday.
Born in the C17th
Oh dear, my basic literacy skills don't seem to be up to much lately.
[Projoy] Mine neiver, that's why Im staying well away frm this one.
William Byrd?
[Projoy] 17th Century? No. That would make him/her Baroque era, I think.
[IRG] Byrd? No.
John Dowland?
Italian?
[Projoy] Dowland? No.
[Phil] Italian? No.
Tomas Luis Vittoria?
[Rosie] TLV? No.
British?
Wrote choral stuff?
[irach] British? Yes.
[Rosie] Choral "stuff"? Yes.
*The audience applauds both questions and anticipates a swift conclusion*
Thomas Tallis?
[Phil] Yes! Phil beats Rosie to the tape.
*Hands over baton to Phil and walks off whistling Glen Miller's "In The Dorian Mood"*
I would like to offer the baton to Irouléguy, or flerdle, who beat me to the lighthouse one, but were unable to spare the time at the time.
Out of town, out of my mind
I'll be away for a fortnight so not me, sorry.
As IRG has not shown up, I'll do what could be another quick one...
ANIMAL or VEGETABLE or MINERAL
The word "Thing"?
[irach] "thing"? NO
Fossil?
[irach] Fossil? NO
A horn?
[Dujon] A horn? NO
Clothing?
Was Dujon asking the right kind of question? That is, is do the word(s) on the card have three separate interpretations/meanings, one animal, one vegatable, and one mineral?
[Projoy] Clothing? NO
[CdM] Words on the card have three separate meanings, one of each type? NO - it's more that it's categorisation is undefined, but not abstract.
Is this a part of a living body (e.g. brain, liver and so on)?
[CdM] Thanks for your question.
[Dujon] Part of a living body? YES, but not in the way you meant from your examples.
Atoms?
[irach] Atoms? NO - *Much applause*
Molecules?
Sub-atomic particles?
Higgs' bosons?
Phil] Thanks for the offer.
[irach] Molecules? NO
[software] Sub-atomic particles? YES *Enthusiastic applause*
[IRG] Higgs' bosons? NO Expectant oohs and aahs
Gluons?
[INJ] Gluons? NO *audience eagerly awaits the right sub-atomic particle*
A quark?
How about a less esoteric "proton"?
Or just the familial 'hadron'?
[IRG] Three quarks for muster mark? 'Fraid not
[irach] Proton? Postively incorrect
[INJ] The humble hadron? YES, by Jiminy!
*hands over a baton made of, amongst other things, hadrons*
Slightly worried about what will happen when the hadrons in my hand collide with those in the baton.
Ah, we appear to be all right.
So let's try ABSTRACT with MINERAL connections
Rock of Ages?
[irach] - aged rock? - NO
*A few members of the audience exchange significant glances*
A statue that no longer exists?
[Phil] - Colossus of Rhodes, etc. - NO
A proverb, aphorism or saying?
[irach] - well-known phrase or saying? - NO
Between a rock and a hard place?
[Raak] - well-known phrase or saying about rocks and hard places? - NO
Title of a literary or theatrical work?
A site or construction of 'cultural significance'?
A flying start
[irach] - Title of a literary or theatrical work? - YES *Applause*
[Dujon] - building site? - NO
Written in the 20th century?
[CdM] - C20 - NO
Title of a book?
[Phil]- Book title? - NO
Play?
This may not take long
[Kim] - Play? - NO
Opera?
Poem?
Film title?
The jukebox musical "We Will Rock You" ?
Are mines involved?
Sorry - called away
[irach] - opera - NO
[Kim] - Poem - YES *Applause*
[Phil] - never heard of it, so - NO
[Raak] - the pits - NO
[irach] - not a film either
"Composed upon Westminster Bridge" by Wordsworth?
Does the mineral connection occur in the title?
Does something to do with rock or stone appear in the title?
Would this have a relationship to a peacock?
Just a matter of time
[irach] - The commuters' poem - NO
[Rosie] - Mineral connection in title - YES
[Phil] - Rock or Stone in title - NO *a few audience murmurs*
[Dujon] - Peacockery - Not to my knowledge
Is there a religious connection?
Does the mineral connection refer to something real (for example "Under Ben Bulben", rather than "The green eye of the little yellow god")?
Is the mineral component water as in "Sea Fever"
Written in C19th?
Does it have anything to do with Hay Fever?
[Kim] - religious connection? - Best answer is NO
CdM - is the mineral real? - Very tricky. I could argue for NO, given the examples you cite, but actually the real answer is 'I don't know (and AFAIK neither does anyone else), but I would guess it was YES'
[irach] - watery - NO
[Projoy] C19 - YES
[Kim] - hay fevery? - NO where did that come from?
Keats?
Alfred Lord Tennyson's poem , "The Holy Grail"
Ode on a Grecian Urn?
(shamelessly climbing on Projoy's shoulders)
*I can't stop myself* - [CdM] What's a Grecian Urn?
Truth is beauty
[CdM] Im sure it is not all ye know on earth, but it is all ye need to know to win this round.
Ode on a Grecian Urn it is.
([Phil] Neither can I) - About 10 drachmas a day
One baton passed on, despite the best efforts of Merlina Mercouri.
VEGETABLE with ANIMAL CONNECTIONS
Bird Seed?
Bird seed? No.
Welsh rabbit?
Is the animal connection part of the name or descriptor of the vegetable?
[INJ] I thought it might be Gray's Allergy.
Welsh rabbit? No.
Animal connection part of name or descriptor of vegetable? Yes. *applause*
horse chestnut?
[Kim] That's dreadful!
She stoops to conker? No.
Is the animal a mammal?
Mammal? Yes.
Swede?
Is the vegetable a fruit?
Swede? No.
Fruit? No.
Edible?
Is it processed?
Is the vegetable a grass?
Edible? Yes.
Processed? No.
A grass? No.
Is the vegetable a vegetable?
Is tha answer just the name of the vegetable?
is the animal human?
King Edwards?
Answer just the name of the vegetable? Yes.
Is the animal human? Yes.
King Edwards? King Edward's what? Oh, sorry, No.
Broccoli?
Is the vegetable a vegetable? No. (Sorry, I missed that earlier.)
Broccoli? No.
Is the vegetable a berry?
Is the vegetable a flower?
Is the vegetable a seed or grain?
Any other options?
Berry? No.
Flower? Yes. *applause*
Seed or grain? No. But there is a connection. *brief puzzled pause, followed by audience laughter*
A specific named varietal?
Not sure of my technical terms here - I mean are we looking for something like 'Rosa Alan Titchmarsh' rather than 'a tea rose'?
Dog Rose?
Queen Anne's Lace?
A specific named varietal? Yes. *applause* (But it isn't Rosa Titchmarsh, whoever she may be.)
Dog rose? No.
Purple clover, Queen Anne's Lace? No.
Female personna?
Is the animal a specific, named individual?
Female? Yes.
Specific named individual? Yes.
Is it a rose?
Rose? No.
Is it a cultivar (as opposed to a wildflower)?
Cultivar? Yes.
Flowering herb?
A rose?
A bulb flower?
Flowerin' 'erb? No.
Rose? Still no.
Bulb flower? No.
It is a flower whose type is often to be found in an English garden?
Nelly Moser?
In an English country garden? No.
Nelly Moser? No.
A female name?
Female name? Still yes.
Oops.. I. meant a female royal name?
Royal name? *brief pause for thought* Er, no. *audience laughter*
It is a flower whose type is often to be found on an English window-sill?
That is, would it be potted rather than growing in a flower-bed.
In an English country windowsill? No.
Is the female person's name integral to the name of the flower (eg, "Violet") as opposed to a variety of flower named after a specific individual?
Integral Name? No. INJ's Rosa Alan Titchmarsh is the exact form you are looking for: <flower><first name><last name>.
A tropical variety ?
Camellia Hari Withers?
Tropical? Largely topical, yes. *applause*
Parker-Bowles-Googie-Withers? No.
An aquatic plant?
Aquatic? No.
Er, in answer to irach's previous question, it is largely tropical. It is not particularly topical.
Native to the S.E. of the U.S.of A.?
Native to SEUSA? No. Which, um, you might have deduced from the fact that the SEUSA is not tropical...
Native to SE Asia?
Does it grow higher than a telephone box?
Native to SE Asia? Yes. (I could give a rather more detailed and pedantic answer, but I think Yes is the most helpful.)
Higher than a phone box? No.
A fragrant flower?
Fragrant? Hmmm... In general these flowers are often fragrant but I don't know for sure about this particular varietal.
In the orchid family?
An oleander variety?
In the orchid family? Yes. *applause*
oleander? No.
Masdevallia Celine Dion?
MCd? No.
Is the female person alive?
As this could take a long time...
Vanda Miss Joaquim?
Orchid Cyd (Charrisse) ?
Living? Yes.
Vanda Miss Joaquim? No, but *significant applause*
Orcyd? No.
Vanda Annette Jones?
Vanda Annette Jones? No. *significant silence*
Is it a 'National Flower'?
National flower? No. At least, that's not a description I would use... *laughter*
(I like this audience. It laughs at my jokes.)
(Perhaps the 'significant applause' to Miss Joaquim was too strong. Think of it more as applause that recognized a connection to the answer.)
N.B. We knew she was a national treasure, but it turns out that Linnea Borealis is also Sweden's national flower
Is it in the sub-family Apostasioideae?
Apostosio ... Apostasioioi ... Apastasio ... what he said? No.
Dendrobium Imelda Marcos?
Must be a slipper orchid.
Dendrobium Imelda Marcos? No. *the audience greets INJ's joke with stony silence*

However, then *the audience applauds excitedly*. "Dendrobium" is indeed the first word on the card. And "Imelda Marcos"? No, but ... so very, very close. *guffaws of laughter from the audience*.
I hate to have to say this, but [INJ], your sources have deceived you - the twinflower is the province flower of one of Sweden's provinces, it's not a national flower. (Sweden doesn't have one.) It's quite pretty though :-)
Aranthera Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo?
Please ignore my earlier question. I cross-posted.
Dendrobium victoriae-reginae?
Is the named person connected with politics?
[Phil] Good grief, is she still alive?
[Néa] Sadly, you're right (of course), but it does appear as a factoid in quite a few places.
D'oh!
Does the first letter of the second word come in the second half of the alphabet?
AGMA? No.
DVR? No.
Connected with politics? Yes. *applause*,
First letter of second word in third half of the alphabet? No (nor in the second half).
Was it initially hybridised in Singapore?
Hybridised in Singapore? Yes. *applause*
Well, I've got 2 that match all the criteria (though there are probably more, since it seems to be the norm that important visitors are given a tour of the Orchid Gardens and then have the latest cultivar named after them). However, etiquette demands that someone else gets a go first....
[INJ] I don't know -- I think you asked the vast majority of the key questions in this round (identifying it as a specific named varietal, native to SE Asia, and as an orchid, for example), so I doubt if anyone would begrudge you victory. I'm surprised you found more than one, given all the audience reactions, although I haven't checked the list myself.
[CdM] I agree. I think that INJ should deliver the cut of grass and take the baton. I was persuaded by the audience reaction and your response to INJ's "Imelda Marcos" suggestion that the connection was the Phillipines.
Philippines? No. Don't listen to the audience; they are purposely being obscurantist.
Let's try Den. Kaneko Ikeda?
Thank goodness that it wasn't in the 2nd half of the alphabet, or I'd have been forced to try den. Margaret Thatcher!
If this is wrong then it's definitely someone else's turn
And then again.....
Ah, I've just realised that you could take the 'second word' question 2 ways - I was thinking about the second word of the name, not the second word on the card. If I have misapprehended, then please amend my answer as appropriate - especially as St Margaret is a 'better' answer.
Den. Margaret Thatcher it is! A delicate flower if ever there was one (and, yes, I puzzled over the meaning of "second word" too). *hands hybridized baton to INJ*
*ponders the matter of how confusing the term "second word" can be, given that one had just been informed of the correctness of the first word* The list of 1900 dendrobia did not include that one :-(
[Phil] Nothing wrong with your question, and I answered it correctly -- but I did have the same initial reaction as INJ. I think that, mentally, the first word was out of the way, and we were now concentrating on a two-word name, so it was easy to think of the second word in that delimited context.
(Or, possibly, it's some kind of genetic defect.)
I put it down to dipping in and out very quickly.
The next one is MINERAL with ANIMAL connections
The Old Man of Hoy?
[CdM] - A Hoy there? - NO
I'm pretty much in wall-to-wall meetings today, so may not get back to this until later. So here's a few answers in advance:
- NO
- Partly
Damn, I didn't think you'd ask that - YES
[INJ] Are you a carpet fitter by trade?
Is the animal human?
[INJ] Is dipping in and out a genetic defect too? *grins*
Mineral metallic?
Is it pig iron?
OK here we go
[Kim] - Carpet Fitter? - NO ;-)
[Phil] - Human? - NO (anticipated as first question)
[Software] - Metal? - NO (wrong question)
[Kim] - Rock Island Line cargo? - NO (you were obviously put off by Software getting it wrong)
Is the animal a bird?
[Néa] - a bird? - NO
Is the animal a mammal?
Rock lobster?
[Irach] - a mammal? - YES
[Phil] - Rocky Lobster Show - NO
A farm animal?
Is the subject a representation of said mammal?
[irach] - cowsheepchickenllama? - NO
[Dujon] - a representation? - NO (but *some applause*)
Tiger-eye (the gemstone)?
A natural feature?
Does it begin with P?
[irach] - Eye of the tiger? - NO
[Rosie] - Natural? - NO
[CdM] - P-led? - Damn, I didn't think you'd ask that - YES
Is it the animal component that begins with the letter "P"?
[irach] - Panimals? - NO
Unique?
[INJ] Is that because you thought I'd ask that, not CdM?
The "Pink Panther" gem of Clouseau infamy?
[Tuj] -Unique - YES (No, just because it hadn't been asked so much recently)
[irach] - La Panthère Rose? - NO
Smaller than a toaster?
[INJ] Ah. Well, I've not spent much time MCing lately =)
[Tuj] < Toaster - NO
Would this be a fossil?
A work of art?
[Dujon] - Fossil? - NO
[CdM] - Work of art? - NO is probably the most useful answer, though there will be dissenting voices
A work of architecture?
[CdM] - The Built Environment? - YES (I couldn't have made that much more obvious, could I?)
Oh, and *audience applause*
Is the animal feline?
Spooky
[Iroul] - with cat-like tread? - YES *considerable applause*
Is it a building with a feline link in the name?
Just to confirm
[Phil] - Is it a building with a feline link in the name? - it is a work of architecture with a feline link in its name
Is the work of architecture in the USA?
[Kim] - In USA? - NO
Is it zoomorphic?
Is the "cat" actually a puddy tat as opposed to, say, a lion?
A lion in Trafalgar Square
A few weeks ago, only one team out of eight in my pub quiz got the correct answer to "How many stone lions are there in Trafalgar Square?"
Hidden textNone, they are made of bronze
[GIII] - zoomorphic - NO
[Rosie] - Minimog? - NO *applause*
[Phil] - I knew the answer to that question, therefore I refer you to my answer to Software (OK then, - NO - to save you looking)
Sports connected?
Arts connected?
Is the work of architecture in England?
[Iroul] - Sporty? - NO
[Kim] - Arty? - NO
[Rosie] - Anglo-Saxony? - NO
The Pantheon
[Software] - Pantheon? - NO
Is it in Asia?
[Phil] - In Asia? - NO *audience remains interested*
BTW - as a clarification - the words on the card do begin with a 'P'. However, I would accept an answer that doesn't. Is that confusing enough?
In Australasia?
Is it a club?
[Phil] - OZ? - NO
[Kim] - clubbable? - NO
Is it on an island?
ie as opposed to a continent
[Iroul] - On an island? - NO
Don't read too much into the audience reaction - it would be helpful to find out where this is, but that's not the only line of approach.
In Europe?
[Rosie] - In Europe? - YES
In Spain?
Homing in
[Kim] In Spain - YES *audience applauds eagerly*
"El Gato de Botero" en Barcelona?
[irach] - Puss in Boots? - NO
Is it Moorish architecture?
Does the P stand for "Plaza"?
Worth waiting for
[Néa] Moorish? - YES *loud applause*
[Phil] - P-laza? - NO
Patio de los Leones?
It's the CdM and INJ show
[CdM] Claro que si
It is the Patio de los Leones, or Lion Courtyard, in the Alhambra in Granada.
*hands an exquisitely carved baton to CdM*
That was dangerously close to a lurker's victory. This next is I think best described as
ANIMAL
though some might make a case for ABSTRACT with ANIMAL connections.
A lion's share?
Lion's share? No. (For the record, that is much more definitely abstract than what is on the card.)
An animal product?
A breed of animal?
An expression?
Animal product? No (at least not in the sense that I presume you mean).
Breed of animal? No.
An expression? No. *some muttering and discussion in the audience, however*
The title of a work of art/literature/other stuff like that?
Is it something that is made from Animal?
A collective term?
Entitlement? No.
Made from animal? No.
Collective term? *audience goes "oooooh"* Yes, sort of. Or possibly No, not exactly.
Is the animal a particular species?
Is the animal human?
A particular species? No.
Human? I've been waiting for this question, yet I'm still not quite sure how to answer it. In a more narrow and literal sense, the best answer is probably No, but in a broader and/or figurative sense the answer is Yes, in some cases.
Does this relate to intelligence?
Related to intelligence? No. (There might sometimes be a connection with the figurative sense of the words on the card, but I think No is the best answer.)
Herd instinct?
Herd instinct? *a moment of surprised silence, followed by loud applause* No.
Does the answer on the card describe a type of behaviour?
A type of behavior? Yes (for a reasonably broad definition of behavior).
Is the behaviour aggressive?
Herd mentality?
A swarm?
Migration?
It being that time of year.
Aggressive? Not aggressive as such, but still *a smattering of applause*
Herd mentality? No.
A swarm? No, but * applause*
Migration? No, but *a little applause*
A stampede?
A stampede is correct! *throws the baton in Rosie's direction and runs out of the way as quickly as possible*
(CdM) Fear not. Now, where's Mandelson?

This next one is A N I M A L.

Non-human?
Non-human? No.
Alive?
A specific, named individual?
A specific named individual? - No. *mild audience amusement*
Alive? - Some are, some aren't.
A race?
A nationality?
Holders of a particular office?
(Phil) Not a race. A race apart, some would say.
(nights) Not a nationality.
(Irouléguy) Not a holder of a particular office.

The words on the card are singular, preceded by the indefinite article.

A Corporation Sole?
(Kim) Er, wossat then? I don't think it's the answer.
The rich?
...being different from the rest of us.
A spin-doctor?
A pejorative description applied to a group?
A royal family?
(Irouléguy) No, not the rich.
(Softers) Spinner/Spinster? No, but *some audience murmurs of appreciation.*
(INJ) Not pejorative, but a group, yes.
(Graham III) Not the royals. *some mild audience laughter.*
The Government
A Governmental or political post or office?
A Corporation Sole is an entity in law comprising, at all times and from time to time, a single individual. It enables property to vest in the entity without having to be transferred each time the individual changes. Its helpful, for example, in ecclesiastical matters, where the property (churches, land, etc) subsisting in a particular diocese (eg, Chelmsford) vests in the Corporation Sole (eg, "The Diocesan Bishop of Chelmsford") rather than the particular individual who happens to hold that post at that moment (currently, The Rt Revd John Gladwin). Hope that helps.
(Phil) Not the government.
(Kim) Not a political office. Not an office at all, really.
Is this an occupation (e.g. Soldier, Sailor, Candlestick maker)?
Is one of the words on the card a collective noun?
Is this specific to a particular culture or country?
To do with the written word?
Is it related to a game or pastime?
Related to the military?
(Dujon) An occupation - YES
(CdM) Any collective nouns? NO.
(Irouléguy) Particular country or culture? No, but certainly more prevalent in some cultures.
(Softers) Written word? YES. *vigorous audience applause*
(Bigsmith) Game or pastime-related. Can be, but certainly not necessarily. *some scattered hesitant applause*
(Raak) Militarily related? NO.
Second thoughts
The audience could possibly have made a bit more of Bigsmith's question.
Connected with education?
Are there TWO words on the card in addition to the indefinite article?
(INJ) Connected with education? NO.
(Chalky) Two words plus indefinite article? YES.
Do either of the two words begin with P? :-)
A sci-fi writer?
(Chalky) Pinitial? - Psorry but NO.
(Phil) NO, not sci-fi.
A Poet Laureate?
(irach) The poet Laurie ate? NO. *cruel audience laughter*
A Weather Forecaster?
(Chalky) Not a forecaster. (See Softers' last question).
Are puzzles involved?
(Dujon) Puzzles? NO.
related to journalism?
A critic?
(INJ) Related to journalism? Strictly speaking no, but there is frequently a connection. *audience applause*
(Softers) Not a critic.
An author?
Related to the law?
A Movie (or Theatre) critic?
(Phil) Author? A case could be made out for YES. *applause*
(Kim) Not law-related.
(irach) Not any kind of critic. (see Softers' last question).
A sports writer?
A ghost writer?
(Softers) Could be, but not the words on the card.
(irach)_ A GHOST WRITER it is. Well done, as long as it's your own words. :-). Over to you; make it easy.
Okay, this one is ABSTRACT WITH MINERAL CONNECTIONS
Coal mining?
[Rosie] Not coal mining.
A human concept?
Neil Young's 'After the goldrush'?
Between a rock and a hard place?
[Software] Not as such.
[Irouleguy] No. [Bigsmith] No. (Smattering of audience attention)
Visible in nature?
[Kim] Figuratively, yes....
Ahem...
Begins with a P?
Is it a saying?
[Tuj] Ahem...Ahem... No.
[Graham III] Yes, a saying of sorts.
Does it involve a natural feature?
{Rosie] Not so much a natural feature as a natural object.
Is the mineral rock?
A gold mine?
Are precious metals involved?
[ImNotJohn] The mineral component is composed of rock, but not the word "rock" per se.
[Software] Not a gold mine.
[Kim] No precious metal.
A stone's throw?
[Software] You got it! Close enough and yes, cigar."Just a Stone's Throw Away" were the exact words on the card.
P
This round begins with a "P".
Perfect :)
Looks to me like it began with a T.
[CdM] Hmm, I think you're right. Maybe we should wait 'til it's penelope's turn to set one.
Who? Me?
Well I never! I actually guessed it!!

Mmmm, bu**er! That means I'll have to think of something.

I know!

ABSTRACT with ANIMAL, MINERAL and VEGETABLE connections.

Anarcho-Syndicalist Recipe for Pot-roast?
One day, mark my words....!
Does it appear in the works of Douglas Adams?
A television series?
Does it start with a B?
[Tuj] ;-Q
Raak - No, but could easily have done so :o).
Tuj - No.
G III - B? No.
"The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe"?
Is it unique?
[GIII] Well, what face are you pulling there?
A human construct?
An imaginary planet from a science-fiction novel?
Tuj] I think it's 'tongue-in-cheek'.
irach: Nope.
Tuj: Well, yes and no. * audience mutters *
Rosie: Yes, absolutely.
Iro: No.
Is the answer the title of an artistic work?
I'm assuming that Anarcho-syndicalist watsit was off the mark....
Anything to do with the current banking crisis?
Kim: - That's a matter of opinion, but the least misleading answer is No.
Rosie: - Yes.
Is it a collaterised debt obligation?
A sub-prime mortgage?
Is it a financial vehicle?
G III: - A what? er No.
Raak: - No. * audience mutters *
IMJ: - Not a financial vehicle.
Is the vegetable connection paper?
A set of rules or protocols?
CdM: - Yes
Rosie: - No.
A legal document?
Is the word "money" in the answer?
Frozen pig belly futures?
Don't believe me?
Hmm, case of the disappearing web reference. Try Here
Dow Jones' Industrial Average
The Financial Times?
Raak: - Not a free lunch for a lawyer, No.
Tuj: - Not as such, No.* audience stirs *
G III: - Interesting, but No.
irach: - No. * audience nervous laughter *
Phil: - No.
Monetary policy?
Is a particular currency part of the answer?
The RPI?
Was it originally 3 pages long?
CdM: - No.
Irouléguy: - No.
Raak: - No.
G III: - No.
Payment in cash?
Was it something that the typical player of this game was likely to have given much thought to a month or more ago?
Rosie: - No. * audience chuckles *
CdM: - It's probably something that has been on many a morniverser's mind, so Yes.
"The stock market"?
Anything to do with pensions?
Is the answer an abbreviation?
Anything to do with mortgages?
Is Tuj an abbreviation?
Any chance that you might answer the questions by indicating which question you are referring to?
The credit crunch?
Do the paper and mineral connections refer to money?
irach: - No. * audience mutters *
Tuj: - No.
Kim: - Yes. * a few claps from the audience *
Chalky: - I didn't think there was any ambiguity.
Irouléguy: - Spot on! YES. Over to you!
CdM: - Close, but no cigar.
*steeples fingers* Ex-cellent! Smithers, throw another pauper on the fire.

OK, our next is ANIMAL or VEGETABLE or MINERAL, or possibly a combination thereof.
McDonald's Meal?
Michael Jackson?
irach] McDonald's Meal? No
Tuj] Michael Jackson? Nice one - but no
Human animal?
Is this one thing in three or more different versions?
Is it always the same size/shape?
Software - Human animal? No
Rosie - Is this one thing in three or more different versions? *murmurs of approval from the audience* Yes, though the versions part is a bit of a red herring.
Tuj - Is it always the same size/shape? *hum of discussion in the audience* Size, no; shape - umm, sort of.
Glue or Adhesive? It can be derived from animal, vegetable or mineral.
Would this be a carving?
I do not mean the head of the house at Sunday dinner.
Manufactured?
[Software] I think you may have misread my extremely awkwardly worded penultimate question in your round, but no matter. :-)
(or maybe not, I suppose -- I think that there was more credit crunch talk in the UK than in many other places following the Northern Rock failure...)
# irach] Glue or Adhesive? It can be derived from animal, vegetable or mineral. *applause* No, though glue or another adhesive could well be involved.
Dujon - Would this be a carving? No
CdM] Manufactured? Yes (though not necessarily machine-made)
CdM] I think you're right the second time - my guess was a response to yours and Rosie's questions together, so Softers' answer worked.
Can one make one of these things oneself?
Rosie] Can one make one of these things oneself? *applause* Yes
Is it a one-word answer?
Tuj] Is it a one-word answer? One word plus an indefinite article
Have you made one of these things?
Is it decorative rather than functional?
CdM] Have you made one of these things? Yes, though not very well.
Rosie - Is it decorative rather than functional? No - the other way round.

Hint - sometimes it's plural rather than singular.
Is the animal connection in the form of a material, like leather?
Is it an item of clothing?
Software - Is the animal connection in the form of a material, like leather? * loud applause* Yes
Kim - Is it an item of clothing? *muted applause* No
Is it an item of footwear?
A bag or similar functional container?
Kim - Is it an item of footwear? No
irach - A bag or similar functional container? No
A belt?
Is the animal material actually leather?
irach - A belt? Yes
Rosie - Is the animal material actually leather? It could be, but not necessarily.
An item of national dress?
Graham III - An item of national dress? No
Suspenders?
irach - Suspenders? No
Is this an article into which an object (or objects) are inserted?
I am thinking here about tool belts, bandoliers, holsters and their ilk.
Dujon] Is this an article into which an object (or objects) are inserted?
Interesting guess, but no. Some of those things might have one (or more) of these, though.

Hint the second - it's not any type of undergarment.
A watch strap?
Would it normally be worn by a person?
(Rather than an animal)
Software - A watch strap? No
ImNotJohn - Would it normally be worn by a person? Person rather than an animal, yes - but it's not 'worn' as such.
Is it associated with a particular profession?
Graham III] Is it associated with a particular profession? No
A buckle or similar fastener?
Garters?
A dog tag?
Fanny Pack? Bum Bag?
CdM] A buckle or similar fastener? *some applause* No
Rosie] Garters? No
Software] A dog tag? No
irach] Fanny Pack? Bum Bag? Nono
A safety harness?
A seat belt?
Rosie - A safety harness? An interesting guess, but no
irach - A seat belt? Hardly
A bandolier?
A noose?
Is its primary function to attach something to some other thing (for a broad definition of thing)?
Also, does it begin with P?
Phil]A bandolier? Er, no
Graham III - A noose? My word, no
CdM - Is its primary function to attach something to some other thing (for a broad definition of thing)? *applause* Attaching - yes, sort of. Something to something else - no.
CdM - Also, does it begin with P? No (though it was Tuj who gave me the idea).
Dog leash?
A knee pad?
irach] Dog leash? No
Software] A knee pad? No

As CdM is wont to say, examine your assumptions. There's one assumption in particular that is leading people in the wrong direction.
A pair of hand cuffs?
Or any other sort of bondage equipment?
Is it usually part of a larger item?
Oh dear.
A Conveyer belt?
Graham III] A pair of hand cuffs? No (vegetable hand-cuffs?)
Raak - Or any other sort of bondage equipment? No, perfectly SFW
Tuj - Is it usually part of a larger item? *applause* Yes, always
irach - A Conveyer belt? No
A collar?
they could be made of string? Not necessarily good hand-cuffs, but hand-cuffs all the same.
Graham III - A collar? No
Hand-cuffs] Touché

A dressing gown cord?
Is it elastic?
When you made this thing, did you also make the larger item?
I think it is INJ who is wont to want you to examine your assumptions.
Graham III] A dressing gown cord? No
ImNotJohn] Is it elastic? No (hypothetically, I suppose it could be)
CdM - When you made this thing, did you also make the larger item? *murmurs of 'Good question' from the audience* No. If you made the larger item, you would also make this (or these) in the process, but people will also make (or remake) this (or these) having bought (or otherwise acquired) the larger item.

Apologies for any false attribution - it's good advice, whoever said it.
Is it decorative?
Graham III - Is it decorative? It can be, but it's primarily functional.
A saddle?
Is it used to carry something?
OK – let’s try to see what we know:
It is a belt but it is not worn as such and is not an item of clothing. It is a part of a larger whole, but can be made separately (a replaceable part?) It may be made of A, V or M and is always ‘sort of’ the same shape although the size can vary. If Animal this could be leather. Manufactured although not necessarily by machine. Irg has made one. It is functional rather than decorative. It has some 'sort of' connection with 'attaching' but not of one thing to another (still slightly confused by that). The answer is one word plus the indefinite article, but this could exist in the plural. It is not normally elastic (although that is not impossible). It does not normally contain or hold other things (bandolier, tool belt)
It is not: a buckle or fastener (applause), garters, dog tag or leash, safety harness, seat belt, handcuffs or other bondage gear, a conveyor belt or a number of other things excluded by the things we know.
Is it a drive belt?
Raak] Is it a drive-belt? YES! (Specifically a fanbelt, but that's good enough).Apologies for the 'connecting one thing to another' answer, which I think was wrong now - I was trying to get at the idea of it being internal. And the answer to Dujon's tool-belts question was misleading, as I didn't read it properly. Not one of my better ones. One baton improvised from tights handed over to Raak.
That was unexpected. Hmm... MINERAL and ANIMAL, with ABSTRACT connections.
Is it manmade?
By the by, the answer "Would it normally be worn by a person? Person rather than an animal, yes - but it's not 'worn' as such." rather threw me. Did you mean "NO"?
[G III] Man-made? Something man-made is involved.
Is the mineral metal?
But is it art?
[Software] Partly metal.
[G III] Not art.
Is the animal portion canine?
An everyday object?
Begins with a P?
[Irouléguy] Can I ask about the "it was Tuj who gave me the idea"?
[irach] Not canine.
[Rosie] Not an everyday object. Not in the sense you mean, that is. *laughter*
[Tuj] Yes! It does indeed begin with a P! Is that a first?
P-research
[Raak] No, it is a seventh, though I have asked the question 59 times.
People who aren't me have an improved success rate of 3 out of 12.
Meanwhile Raak has asked if the word has ended in P, and CdM set the answer "the set of all words beginning with P".
Does this relate to time?
[Dujon] Relates to time? In a way.
Is the animal part living?
Are the abstract connections to a work of art?
[Tuj] Also related: around the same time I also set "A P" in the sense of the Associated Press, and "urine".
[Tuj] The animal part is living.
[CdM] Not related to a work of art.
A horse and cart?
[Rosie] Not a horse and cart.
A cage?
[Rosie] Not a cage.
"Pig in a poke" ?
[irach] Not a pig in a poke.
Is the animal a source of energy to be used as, for example, motive power?
[Rosie] The animal makes it happen? Yes.
A Pony and Trap?
[Software] Not a pony and trap. The "motive power" thing may be misleading.
Is it the animal part that begins with the "P"?
[irach] The animal part is not the part beginning with P.
A rat-race?
[Rosie] Not a rat-race.
Is there an agricultural connection?
[Kim] Nothing to do with agriculture. *snoring from the audience*
Is the animal a mammal?
[Rosie] The animal is a mammal.
Is the animal normally associated with human contact (e.g. pet or livestock)?
[G III] Not a pet, not livestock. Associated with human contact? Well...you're thinking on the wrong lines. Hint: a frequently asked question has not yet been asked.
Animal human?
Why the FAQ didn't I ask that earlier?
Is the abstract connection a metaphor?
Fictional?
[Rosie] At last! The animal is himan.
[CdM] The abstract connection is a metaphor.
[Tuj] Not fictional. (Knowledgeable members of the audience and those who have just googled it murmur.) Not intended as fictional.
Is it "Manpower"?
[Kim] Not "Manpower".
Related to the bible?
Is the mineral part a specific object?
[G III] Not related to the bible.
[Rosie] Yes, a specific mineral object.
Is the human currently living?
[Kim] Not applicable. Not a specific human.
"People Power"
Is the mineral object implied rather than specified?
[Rosie] Yes to both.
Is this a phrase?
[Tuj] It is a phrase.
Is the word that begins with P "Power"?
[irach, sorry I overlooked this] Not "People Power".
[Kim] P is not for "power".
Summary: the phrase describes a specified mineral object, an implied one, and some human activity, and the whole is also a metaphor. Not biblical, artistic, or any of the specific guesses so far. It begins with a P.
The Press?
[Rosie] Not The Press. The very first word of this begins with a P.
Is the animal human part a plural noun?
[irach] The animal human is not mentioned.
Is the mineral partly glass?
Platinum artist?
[CdM] No glass.
[staniel] Not a platinum artist. (Not an artistic thing.)
*the audience sign up for cryonic suspension*
Is the metaphor assoicated with human endeavour (eg, nose to the grindstone, shoulder to the wheel, that kind of thing)?
[Kim] Yes! Exactly that sort of thing!
Are the second and third letters U and T?
[CdM] Putting? No.
Is it also the title of a film?
First word a present participle?
Are the second and third letters U and L?
[Kim] Not the title of a film, according to IMDB. I think it ought to be, though. It would be rather a long one.
[Rosie] The first word is a present participle.
[Tuj] PULl the other one, it's got bells on.
Is there a mythical connection?
[Kim] No mything links.
Pulling your weight?
[Rosie] Not pulling your weight.
Are the second and third letters of the first word "U" and "S"?
[Kim] Pushy? No.
Any links to a game?
[INJ] Nothing to do with a game.
There are four words on the card.
I see my summary left out the information that this thing has a connection with time.
Painting the Forth bridge?
Aha!
[INJ] We have a winner! One bottomless bucket and a paintbrush handed over.
semi-lurking
I didn't think anyone would object, given how long this one has been going.
Rather more quickly, I hope, you will get to:
Abstract with Animal Connections - (Actually I could claim it as Abstract with Animal connections on 2 counts and Animal with Abstract connections on 1 - but don't let that confuse you)
Leaving now
Won't be looking at this until tomorrow morning now, I'm afraid.
Is the animal part human?
An activity?
[Kim] Human? - NO
[Rosie] Activity? - NO
An expression?
[Software] Expression? - NO
Is the animal of a species that exists in the world today?
Good question
[Kim] Animal species exists today? - NO (however, I am just a little wary of the exact form in which the question was asked)
Is the animal mythical?
[Raak] Mythical animal? - Hmm - NO, unless you mean 'is it fictional?', in which case, the answer is YES
A specific fictional animal?
(i.e., an individual animal like "White Fang")
Animal common in fantasy literature?
[CdM] Specific animal - YES
[G3] Common in Fantasy Literature? - NO
Begins with a P?
Does the animal appear predominantly in books?
[Tuj] THE question? - NO
[Kim] booky animal? - NO
From a children's movie?
[CdM] From children's film? - NO (and he claims he doesn't speak American)
Is the animal a human construction?
[Kim] Human Construction? - YES (in the sense that I think you mean)
Also YES in another sense *a few chuckles from the audience* and NO in a very obscure sense.
Confused enough now?
An animal bred for some purpose?
Is it an animal of legend (as distinct from myth)?
[G3] bred for some purpose? - NO
[Kim] Legend rather than myth? - NO - If anything the reverse, but neither is a good description
Is the animal a member of a real species (dog rather than hipporhinocecow, for example)
trying to hone in based on some previous answers...
And I never claimed any such thing. I speak American almost fluently.
[CdM] Member of real species? - YES
[CdM] "hone in"? **bang!!**
[Raak] ooops...
An animal of folklore?
[Raak] Although... maybe I was just demonstrating my command of fluent American for INJ. According to the M-W Dictionary of English Usage
The phrase [hone in] seems to have become established in American English, and is apparently beginning to be used in British English (Garner has a British example). If you use it, you should be aware that some people will think you have made a mistake.
Not surprisingly, the folks at Language Log have have also discussed it quite a bit. One of the interesting things is that though the verb to home has been around a long time, home in and hone in are both recent coinages. None of which is meant as a serious defense in my particular case, by the way; had I noticed it, I would have certainly chosen home in in preference.
Not well-honed
[Kim] Folklore? - NO
Is this animal primarily known for some artistic representation of it?
[CdM] artiswtically represented - NO (except for fairly wide definitions of 'artistic' and 'representation')
Is it a species of animal, rather than a single example?
[Kim] Species? - The answer would technically be a species, but it is known by a single example
From an adult film?
Not an "adult" film, you understand. Just an adult film.

(We now know that this animal is fictional, but not from a book, children's film, or known from an artistic representation...)
Would the aminal/species be known conventionally as a "dinosaur"?
[CdM] Film for adults - NO
[Kim] Dino? - NO
So, by a process of elimination....
From a teenage film?
Is the animal the subject of a poem?
Building on CdM's summary, if I have this right, the individual animal has never actually existed but is a human construction, represented not in books or artistic representation (which I take to mean painting, drawing, sculpture, etc) and not in any film made for children, adults or teenagers but in some other artistic form; moreover, the species to which the animal belongs is a real species, but the species does not exist in the world today, nor is it what we would call a "dinosaur".
Trojan horse?
From TV?
At last
[Kim] Subject of poem? - NO *some chuckles in the audience*
[G3] Trojan Horse? - NO
[CdM] TV - YES *sighs of relief*
The summary is correct, except around the 'species' (and this is my fault). It's probably best to say that the genus is real and current, but this particular creature isn't. After all, it doesn't exist, so has never been classified, so I'm extrapolating here - is it a species or a sub-species - search me. However, I suspect that you would probably think of it as part of an existing species.
Is/was there a real animal or animals who played the part of this fictional animal on TV?
(e.g., Flipper the wonder horse, Lassie the bush kangaroo) (I'm assuming not, because otherwise I think INJ would have led with Animal rather than Abstract ... but INJ's original definition did seem to leave the door open for lots of things.)
Mister Ed?
Was it a TV cartoon?
Associated with a particular actor?
Is the TV show named after the animal?
[CdM] Real Animal played part? NO (or I certainly hope not)
[Phil] Mr Ed? - NO
[Raak] Cartoon? - NO
[Projoy] Particular actor? - NO, not as such *Some muttering in the audience*[Kim] Named after animal? - NO
Mr. Blobby?
Is the animal a puppet?
Was the audience muttering because a known actor voiced this character?
Is our elusive friend a puppet?
Whoops! Sorry, Kim.
I'm also going to request a clarification on the classification. Though you have classified this primarily as abstract, does (or did) it still have some physical (presumably vegetable or mineral) existence? (Although maybe that is just a very roundabout way of asking Kim's question for the third time!)
[Raak] Mr Blobby? - NO
[Kim] Puppet? - NO
[CdM] Voiced by well-known actor - NO
[Dujon] - still no
CdM - Some physical existence? - YES *some applause* (but the classification is still correct)
Was this animal played by an actor in costume?
Not a real animal, not a puppet, and not a cartoon. Not many possibilities left.
Was the animal invisible?
Do we take your earlier rejection of "cartoon" to include all forms of amination?
Is it a logo or mascot?
I am thinking along the lines of something like Pudsey the bear (though not him of course as he begins with P).
One of the Playschool toys?
Just as an observation, we have nothing indicating that this is a children's show, though I think we are all tending to assume that it is.
[CdM] Gorilla-suited? - N)
[Raak] Invisible? - NO
[Kim] animated? - NO (I don't split hairs in this game)
[Bigsmith] Logo/Mascot - NO
Playschool? - NO
[CdM] Good point, well made.
Pantomime horse?
Well this is proving harder than I had ever imagined
[Software] Panto pony? - NO (precluded by answer to CdM's previous question)
Not a real animal, not a puppet, not a costumed actor, not invisible, not a cartoon or other animation. We are obviously missing something here but I am drawing a blank.
Was this animal ever seen (in some form or another) by the TV viewers?
Avian?
getting warmer
[CdM] Was the animal seen? - YES (it will become clear)
[irach] birdy? - YES *relieved applause*
"Phoenix rising from the ashes"?
[irach] Phoenix? - NO
Did the animal have an individual name?
"Eagle eye"?
Did the TV show feature a representation of this bird (e.g., a picture) rather than the bird itself?
[Raak] Named? - NO *a few murmurs in the audience*
[irach] Eagle eye? - Never heard of it, so NO
[CdM] Representation? YES(ish), a picture? - NO
There are 3 words on the card, including the indefinite article.
Is this from a comedy show?
[CdM] comedy show? - YES Loud and relieved applause*
Is it visible during the show?
[Phil] Visible? - YES
A Liver Bird?
[CdM] Liver Bird - Good guess, but NO
Was this seen in a pet shop?
"Dead Parrot" a la Monty Python?
Close enough for jazz
I don't want to draw this out so I declare irach the winner! The answer on the card was A Norwegian Blue
[CdM] The category that had not been suggested was 'a prop/model'
(To explain the convoluted intro 'a Norwegian Blue' can also be an orienteering course or the nickname of the earliest fossil proto-psittacoid, which was found in Scandinavia.)
One baton totally bereft of life handed on to irach.
Simulposted with:

That must be it, though I am guessing that "A Norwegian Blue" are the actual words on the card. (That's irach's win, not mine, if correct.)
Well, that one was put to rest at last. The psittacoid in question pining for the fjords is now in birdie Valhalla.... The next one is ANIMAL with an ABSTRACT Connotation.
Human?
A single individual animal?
Is the answer a phrase?
[CdM] Non-human.
[IMJ] More than one.
[Rosie] Sort of a phrase.
Lemmings?
A single species of animal?
A team or pack?
[Tuj] Not lemmings.
[CdM] Not a single species.
[Rosie] A team of sorts, not a pack.
Domesticated animals?
Likely to be seen in the wild?
(in counterpoint to INJ)
[INJ] Not domesticated.
[CdM] Yes, and no.
Fictional?
Dickybirds?
Land animal?
[Tuj] Fictional in part.
[Rosie] Not dickybirds.
[Software] Yes. Land animal
Does it begin with P?
To business.
[Tuj] 'Pologies, but no "P" whatsover, in either the beginning, middle, or end.
The Circle of Life?
Ouch.
[Tuj] Not the circle of life.
An animal of which there are both domesticated and wild examples?
[Kim] Only wild or presumed wild.
Does the name of an animal (or several) appear on the card?
[INJ] Yes, the animals are named.
Indigenous to the UK?
"Wild? I was absolutely livid!"
Do they form an heraldic or symbolic group?
[Bigsmith] Not indigenous to the US individually, but togeter, yes, very British.
[INJ] Yes, they form a heraldic or symbolic group.
Lion and Unicorn?
[Software] The Lion and the Unicorn it is. The baton is passed
Bu**er! That means I'll have to think of something. Right, after 30 seconds deep thought here it is:

VEGETABLE with ANIMAL and ABSTRACT connections.

Terry Schiavo?
Sorry, couldn't resist.
Is the vegetable wood?
Smaller than a toaster?
[Raak] Yowzer!
[Raak] Terry? No
[INJ] Wood? Yes.
[CdM] er.. No.
[Tuj] Toaster? Difficult one, probably Yes.
arrow_circle_down
Want to play? Online Crescenteering lives on at Discord