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AVMA Take 2
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Yes, it's another round of that classic guessing game - Animal, Vegetable, Mineral, Abstract [or any combination thereof]. This effort - '03/'04 should address any queries, but then again, may just serve to confuse and baffle which some might say is the point of the game. Patience, integrity and a decent search engine may be useful ....
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More precisely, it's not a physical construction, or a physical anything. 'Bigger than a toaster' refers to the animal connection, not the thing itself.
Is it something like 'on the horns of a dilema'?
Software] Is it something like 'on the horns of a dilema'? It's not entirely unlike, but it's nowhere close.
Is the answer a phrase, proverb etc?
Rosie] Is the answer a phrase, proverb etc? *applause, cheering, etc* Yes!
Is the animal connection human?
Is the phrase a kind of warning?
CdM] Is the animal connection human? Yes
Rosie] Is the phrase a kind of warning? No
A white elephant?
Though I struggle with the mineral.
Is the answer a proverb (pace Rosie)?
Software - A white elephant? No - the mineral is implied in the answer, but not named. And don't forget the vegetable.
Kim - Is the answer a proverb (pace Rosie)? Barking up the wrong tree.
Is the vegetaale a fruit?
Is it the Jolly Green Giant?
Inkspot - Is the vegetable a fruit? *applause mixed with laughter from the audience* Yes
Kim - Is it the Jolly Green Giant? No no no
The apple of one's eye?
(Irg) Kim wishes me peace.
Rosie] The apple of one's eye? No
Or he's trying to drink at the same speed as you...
Is the fruit a commonplace edible item?
(Irg) No chance, then. :-)
Rosie] Is the fruit a commonplace edible item? Yes
Is the fruit a citrus?
The Big Apple?
CdM] Is the fruit a citrus? The answer's not a lemon
irach] The Big Apple? NYet
The Garden of Eden?
Is the phrase in question also the title of a work of lliterature
Rosie] The Garden of Eden? Adam fine question - but no
irach] Is the phrase in question also the title of a work of literature? No
So angry I could crush a grape?
Is the answer the title of an artistic work?
Inkspot] So angry I could crush a grape? Ire think not
Kim] Is the answer the title of an artistic work? No
Is the fruit a berry?
The fruit of our labours?
Kim] Is the fruit a berry? *laughter, followed by earnest audience discussion* Probably, yes
Software - The fruit of our labours? No
A berry by name, but not by strict definition?
A blackberry?
** motions towards ear **
Is it green and goes up and down in a lift? A gooseberry?
Graham III] A berry by name, but not by strict definition? No - other way round (probably)
Software - A blackberry? No
Inkspot} Is it green and goes up and down in a lift? A gooseberry? Possibly, unlikely, and no.
Is it a berry within the botanical (as opposed to common) meaning of the word?
Kim] Is it a berry within the botanical (as opposed to common) meaning of the word? *applause* Yes (probably)
'Probably' because the exact meaning of the word on the card is ambiguous, but this is the most likely meaning.
Is the human connection one or more actual persons?
The phrase :"A loaf of bread, a jug of wine and thou beside me?"
Kim] Is the human connection one or more actual persons? *much discussion in the audience* If actual=named, then yes.
irach - The phrase :"A loaf of bread, a jug of wine and thou beside me?" And wilderness is paradise, e? no
Are the named persons fictional characters?
Kim] Are the named persons fictional characters? I refer the honourable gentleman to his previous question. Fictional - almost certainly (though I have seen one website that says the opposite).
Is the berry a grape?
Resisting the temptation to ask whether it is "Attack of the killer kumquats"
Graham III] Is the berry a grape? No
I say tomahto and you say tomayto?
Is the human element a collection of individuals (eg, a class, a group, etc)
ImNotJohn] I say tomahto and you say tomayto? *some applause* No, nay
Kim - Is the human element a collection of individuals (eg, a class, a group, etc) No
Yankee Doodle Dandy?
Is the answer a popular food product?
Software - Yankee Doodle Dandy? No sirree
Kim - Is the answer a popular food product? No - a food product is two of the words on the card, but it's not the answer
Heinz Baked Beans?
Graham III - Heinz Baked Beans? No
Is it a jam or marmalade?
irach] Is it a jam or marmalade? No
Is it ice cream?
A fruit milk shake?
Kim] Is it ice cream? Nein (ty), nein
irach - A fruit milk shake? No
Is the food product shown on the card normally sweet-tasting?
Kim] Is the food product shown on the card normally sweet-tasting? *applause* No
Is the berry an olive?
Popeye and Olive Oil?
CdM - Is the berry an olive? *some applause* No
irach - Popeye and Olive Oil? No
Is the fruit pickled?
irach] Is the fruit pickled? *the audience rise as one person, cheering* YES!
Can one find this on the supermarket shelf today?
Software] Can one find this on the supermarket shelf today? One can find products with the same name on supermarket shelves - whether they are exact product referred to is doubtful.
Is it an ethnic food from the East?
Is the answer in the form 'so-and-so's such-and-such'?
irach] Is it an ethnic food from the East? No
ImNotJohn] Is the answer in the form 'so-and-so's such-and-such'? *cries of 'oooh' from the audience* No, but not that far off - in two ways.
Actually, the audience should have applauded part of irach's question.
Does it involve mango?
irach] Does it involve mango? No mag
Does it involve citrus?
Phileas Fogg's gentleman's relish?
irach] Does it involve citrus? No, Mel
Software] Phileas Fogg's gentleman's relish? No

It's Friday, it's five o'clock, it's Crackerjack! time for a summary, I feel

The whole thing takes the form of something described by “a phrase, proverb, etc”, though it is not a proverb. It includes two words describing a food product, and the name(s) of one or more persons, who is/are almost certainly fictional. The human element is not a collection of persons.

The food is derived from a fruit. Although the exact meaning of the word on the card is ambiguous, the fruit in question is almost certainly a berry, botanically speaking. The fruit is not lemon, blackberry, gooseberry, grape, mango, tomato or olive (though the last two got some applause), and it is not normally sweet-tasting. It is a common-place edible item.

The food product is pickled (sale being the mineral implied in the answer). It is not Heinz baked beans, jam or marmalade, ice cream, or a fruit milk shake. You can find food products with the same name on supermarket shelves, though they are probably not the exact product referred to in the words on the card. It is not an ethnic food from the East, though part of that question garnered applause.

The phrase is not a kind of warning, or the title of a literary or artistic work. [Note – the phrase may have been used as a title, but that’s not where you know it from] The phrase is not: the apple of one’s eye; so angry I could crush a grape; the fruit of our labours; a loaf of bread, a jug of wine, and thou beside me; Popeye and Olive Oil; Yankee Doodle Dandy. The phrase does not take the form 'so-and-so's such-and-such', but that is close in two distinct ways.

This game is missing one of its usual players, who might well have got this by now, or at least posed a particularly pertinent question.
It is associated with Indian food?
A pound of....?
Peter piper's pickled pepper?
... Or rather, the entire phrase "Peter Piper picked a peck of pickled pepper" ?
Begin with the letter P?
Capers?
Well, we've a worthy winner! The complete Peter Piper phrase it is - one pepper-flavoured baton handed over to irach.
The next is ABSTRACT WITH MINERAL AND PROBABLE VEGETABLE CONNECTIONS `
Is this a phrase?
[Software] Yes, a phrase.
Does this phrase relate to extraterrestial bodies - or body?
[Dujon] Totally terrestrial.
Is the mineral a liquid?
[irach] Not a liquid.
Is the mineral reference rock?
Old as the hills?
Shut up at the back there.
is the probable vegetable wood?
Is it culturally specific to English?
[Dujon] Not a rock.
[Rosie} Not "old as the hills".
[Iroulëguy] The probable vegetable is not wood
[ImNotJohn] the phrase was coined in English, but is not culturally specific.
Is the mineral combustible?
[Rosie] The mineral is non-combustible.
Could the phrase be construed as a "saying"?
[Software} Not a "saying", but a frequently used term.
Is the mineral component mainly metal?
Is the mineral metal?
[Inkspot],[Phil] The mineral IS metal.
I feel rather silly now - oops!
[Phil] Actually, that was a great and very relevant question from you -there is a difference in the material being mostly metal or being metal entirely.
Ferrous?
Or ferric.
[irach] Not ionic as in ferrous or ferric, but ferrum, yes.
Does "the phrase" refer to the strength or durability of the ferrous metal?
[irach] For the most part, yes. Actually the phrase or term also has/had a physical aspect to it; although it is generally used in an abstract sense.
A cast-iron case?
Does the word "iron" appear on the card?
[Rosie] Not a cast=iron case.
[CdM] It does indeed.
An iron will?
[Rosie] Not an iron will.
The iron curtain?
[Cdm] The "iron curtain" it is. Take it away.
A near lurker's victory there. Anyway, this one is ABSTRACT with ANIMAL connections.
Bach's 'Air on a G string'?
A classical thong? No.
Human animal?
Human Animals? Yes. The animal connections are human.
A human construct?
artistic connections?
Human construct? Yes (with a fairly broad definition of 'construct')
Artistic connections? There are some artistic connections, but they are tangential. The words on the card do not refer to something artistic.
Is it a phrase or saying?
Phrase or saying? Well, strictly speaking the words on the card do constitute a phrase, but it is not a saying or proverb or adage or aphorism or anything of that kind.
Does this relate to a particular human being?
Phew! That 'whoops!' button's really useful.
Anything to do with the law?
Any sporting connection?
A particular human being? Not a particular human being, but the animal connections are to particular individuals, Yes.
To do with the law? That's a tricky one. My first response was No, but on reflection a better answer might be Yes, absolutely!
Sporting connection? The least misleading answer is clearly No, though you can make a case for Yes.
Anything to do with the Olympic Games, current or otherwise?
Olympian? No. (Again, I can make a case for a very tangential Yes, but sport is not a fruitful line of enquiry.)
Are the particular individuals from a particular country or culture?
Does the phrase relate to a human activity?
From a particular country or culture? Yes. *applause*
Human activity? Yes, for a reasonably broad interpretation of "activity".
Connected to political activity?
Connected to political activity? Yes. *sustained applause*
The US Democratic convention?
British?
A legislature?
Denver Demfest '08? No.
British? No. *some muttering in the audience*
A legislature? No.
English?
A referendum?
Concerning the EU?
English? No.
A referendum? No. *some audience laughter*
EU-related? No.
Does this pertain to an African country's election process?
Is the country/culture in Europe?
African country's election process? No and No.
In Europe? Yes.
(I suppose that while my answer to African country was unequivocal, I should note that there is at least a tangential connection to "election process".)
A current news story?
A country or culture formerly part of the USSR?
A Dutch treat?
Current news? No.
USSR? No.
Dutch treat? No.
Does it involve a change in power in a country?
Gerrymandering?
Does it relate to a specific European country?
The French Revolution?
Does it involve a change in power in a country? No. *applause*
Gerrymandering? No.
Relate to a specific European country? Yes. (A case could be made for No, but it would be misleading.)
French revolution? No. *more applause*
Treaty of Versailles?
Treaty of Versailles? No. *audience sits in stony silence*
Anything to do with royalty?
A failed revolution/coup/uprising?
To do with royalty? No (except tangentially).
A failed revolution/coup/uprising? Yes! *sustained applause*
The Spanish Civil War?
Spanish Civil War? No.
Did it happen in Czechoslovakia (as was)?
Czequered past? No.
The Landing at Dunkirk?
Dunkirk Landing? No.
Was the uprising against a colonial power?
Involving Napoleon Bonaparte, 1812 and Russia?
Uprising against a colonial power? Yes.
Napoleonic? No.
The Black Hole of Calcutta?
Black Hole of Calcutta, Europe? No.
The Easter Rising, Dublin 1916?
Uprising of Gaul against Julius Caesar in 52 BC?
We have a winner! The words on the card were "The Easter Rising". *hands an orange and green baton to Irouléguy*
I agree with the mutterers when Rosie asked "British" and you said "No". Ireland was part of Britain in 1916, and remained so until 1920, IIRC. There are some that say Ireland is still part of Britain, but not "Great Britain", but I think that's a bit over(t)ly confrontational.
[Phil] Well, it all comes down to the meaning of Britain.
My preferred usage has always been to treat Britain and Great Britain as synonymous, referring (as a geographical term) to the island which makes up the bulk of England, Scotland and Wales, and more generally (and as a political term) to England + Scotland + Wales. Another view is that Britain (but not, I think, Great Britain) is synonymous with the UK; this seems to be your preferred usage. Wikipedia points me both to the Guardian style guide, which claims that "Britain is the official short form of United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland", and also points to a quote from a British government website that says "the term 'Britain' is used informally to mean the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" [my emphasis in both quotes].

So, having gone most of my life thinking I understood these demarcations perfectly, I'm now not sure. If anyone can point me to an official site which disambiguates "Britain" and "Great Britain" conclusively, I'd be grateful.

There is another subtlety (and here I am convinced, or almost), which is that "British" perhaps has a wider meaning than simply "pertaining to Britain". It is true, for example, that my passport of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland describes me as a British citizen. On the basis of that distinction, I would accept that perhaps I should have said "yes" to "British?" though I might still disagree with your claim that "Ireland was a part of Britain in 1916". In any case, I thought my answer together with the audience muttering was a sufficiently non-misleading response.
To follow up, here are two sites that both seem reasonably reliable and that, taken together, support the view that (i) "British" has a meaning that extends beyond Britain in the specific case of nationality, but that (ii) using "Britain" to refer to the UK is at best informal and at worst incorrect. Here, we read:
BRITAIN. The informal name for the United Kingdom.
BRITISH is the formal designation of the nationality of citizens of the United Kingdom, and of certain others.
Compare with the following from here.
The adjective "British" is, of course, used in relation to Great Britain but there is also a common tendency to use it when referring to issues relating to both Great Britain and the United Kingdom. This is inaccurate and from a legal point of view erroneous. [emphasis mine]

Sometimes, however, in legislation the term "British" is used to refer to the United Kingdom as a whole, especially in matters relating to the question of nationality.

I'm not sure I am much wiser.
[CdM] I must re-examine myself. I have never in the past confused the UK with GB. I can't understand why I posted that. Although the time-stamp might explain it :-)
Phil, CdM] From another angle, I thought CdM's answer was fine, in that the participants in the 1916 rising certainly didn't think of themselves as British.

At one point Wikipedia suggests that Britain might be used for the island alone, and Great Britain for England, Scotland & Wales (ie including the Isle of Wight, Anglesey and so on), but it doesn't give a source for this, and I'm not sure why anyone except geographers would need such a distinction.

Anyway, our next is ABSTRACT, containing ANIMAL and VEGETABLE with a small amount of MINERAL.

Animal human?
A balanced diet?
Rosie - Animal human? No
irach - A balanced diet? *applause* No
Is the answer related to a food item?
[Phil] But note from my first comment that the Guardian style guide supports your original objection.
A loaded coffin?
CdM - Is the answer related to a food item? Yes
Dujon - A loaded coffin? No
A type of sandwich?
A pie of some kind?
Part of a specialised diet?
irach] A type of sandwich? No
CdM] A pie of some kind? Ye-es
Rosie] Part of a specialised diet? *giggles from the audience* Possibly
Shepherd's Pie?
irach] Shepherd's Pie? No
A Cornish pasty?
Named after a person?
Rosie} A Cornish pasty? *applause* No
Graham III] Named after a person? No
Humble pie?
Named after a place or area?
Raak] Humble pie? No. The ABSTRACT was probably a mistake - this is edible
Rosie] Named after a place or area? *applause* Yes
Yorkshire pudding?
irach] Yorkshire pudding? Nay, lad
Devon cheesecake?
Bet that's wrong.
Is the place or area in UK?
Rosie] Devon cheesecake? You win the bet
CdM - Is the place or area in UK? *applause* Yes
Is this an edible item with a metaphorical meaning?
Is the animal element the meat of the animal?
CdM] Is this an edible item with a metaphorical meaning? Not really, no (it's not clear where the name comes from, but it's probably not a metaphor).
Graham III - Is the animal element the meat of the animal? Yes!
Is the animal a pig?
Is the animal named or directly implied (e.g., pork) by the words on the card?
The Dunmow Flitch?
Bigsmith] Is the animal a pig? Often (though not in all recipes)
CdM] Is the animal named or directly implied (e.g., pork) by the words on the card? *audience members of a certain age giggle* No
Raak] The Dunmow Flitch? No
Scotch egg?
That's wrong as well.
Rosie] Scotch egg? No
Welsh rarebit?
Thrashing around in the dark.
Melton Mowbray Pork Pie?
*hangs his head in shame*
Rosie - Welsh rarebit? No
Graham III - Melton Mowbray Pork Pie? No
Is pastry involved?
Or bread?
Rosie - Is pastry involved? Yes
Bigsmith - Or bread? No
The Fleet Street "Long pork" pies of Sweeney Todd?
Is it a dessert?
irach] The Fleet Street "Long pork" pies of Sweeney Todd? No - see Rosie's earlier question about the animal being human.
Rosie] Is it a dessert? *applause, followed by lengthy discussion* Yes and no (more accurately, no and yes)
Wakefield Pie?
(Pork and rhubarb - delicious!)
Is it sweet?
as opposed to savoury.
ImNotJohn - Wakefield Pie? No, I've not come across that - sounds great!
Graham III - Is it sweet? Partially
as opposed to savoury? No (ie it's both)
Is this essentially a Cornish pasty by some other name and location?
Sweet and sour eel pasty?
CdM] Is this essentially a Cornish pasty by some other name and location? Um, no - it has a distinct USP. It might well look like a Cornish pasty, though, and parts of it might well taste like one.
Raak - Sweet and sour eel pasty? Eww! No
Shropshire Fidget pie?
Just to clarify, I always understood the traditional Cornish pasty to contain two separate fillings: one meat-and-potato-based and one fruit-based. Is the USP that you refer to something other than this?
(A little googling reveals that although this form of the Cornish pasty is mentioned in many places, it is much less of a defining feature than I had thought.)
Graham III - Shropshire Fidget pie? No
CdM] *applause* Yes, that is the USP. But I took your earlier question to mean a present-day Cornish pasty, which as far as I know is just a savoury.
A Bedfordshire Clanger?
wikipedia is my friend
CdM] A Bedfordshire Clanger? YES! Wikipedia is indeed your friend (where do you think I got it from?) One pork and raspberry baton handed over to CdM.
Never 'eard of it. Stupid. What's the point?
I'm with Rosie on that (though maybe not quite so forcefully). Sometimes you may have to do research to get the answer, but it shouldn't be 'pick one from a list at random'. I think the best answers are ones where, either the majority of players will have heard of it, or you're pleased to have had this thing drawn to your attention.
(INJ) Yeah, a bit "forceful" (as usual) but I was annoyed that I'd wasted time and thought with no chance whatever of hitting on the answer. The only Bedfordshire Clanger I can think of is the management of Luton Town FC.
This is obviously going to be one of those perennial debates here. There is room to disagree about where to draw the lines, but this is an online forum, which does make it different playing AVMA here rather than as a parlour game. I don't think there is any harm in subjects that require a bit of googling. As indeed this next one might for some people; I don't know.

MINERAL
(On reflection, this almost certainly has a significant VEGETABLE component as well.)
Is it fossilised?
Fossilised? No.
Used in construction?
Used in construction? No.
Is this a natural amalgam of its constituent materials?
Natural? In the sense in which I presume you mean the term, No.
Here is a clarification of the category that will hopefully make things nicely more muddled. :-)
The words on the card refer to something that can be reasonably interpreted relatively narrowly, or a bit more broadly. In both cases we are talking about something primarily mineral, and I can do no more than make educated guesses about the vegetable component. Under the narrow definition, my guess is that the vegetable component is present, but small. Under the broader definition, the vegetable component is surely more prominent, but the mineral component still clearly dominates.
(To be honest, you will probably make more progress if you ignore the vegetable component.)
Rossington Colliery Grade 2B Hards?
Bog standard food for steam locos.
Diesel substitute? No.
Is there only one of it?
Unique? Yes.
Is it fixed in a single location?
Fixed in a single location? Yes. *a smattering of applause*
Larger than a telephone box?
Larger than a telephone box? Yes.
Is the mineral metalic?
Metallic? There is some metal involved, but most of the mineral component is not metallic.
Is it a building?
A building? Yes. *applause*
Is it in Europe?
In Europe? Yes.
Is it in the UK?
Is it north of Paris? (oblig)
Thanks to CdM for his defence, and apologies to those who thought my last was a waste of time - I mostly agree with INJ's criteria and thought it fitted :(
A public building?
In the UK? No.
North of Paris? Yes.
Public building? No. *animated discussion in the audience, plus applause for the question*
Does the building house scientific activity?
Does the building house scientific activity? Yes.
Was it built before 1900?
Built before 1900? Yes.
Greenwich Observatory?
Greenwich Observatory? No.
Is it mostly made of concrete?
Mostly made of concrete? No.
Was it built before 1800?
Built before 1800? No.
Is it in a Scandanavian country?
Connected with astronomy?
In a Scandinavian country? No.
Connected with astronomy? No.
Is it part of a university?
Part of a university? No.
To do with botany?
Botanical? No.
Is it a museum?
Is it in a Francophone country?
Engineering?
Museum? No.
In a Francophone country? No.
Engineering? If you mean, "is it connected to engineering?" then the answer is "only tangentially".
Connected with power generation?
Connected with power generation? No.
The dog that didn't bark
Before you spend too much time on the current avenue of questioning, you might want to observe that there was a question where the audience was notable for its lack of reaction.
Was it Rosie's question about "scientific activity"?
Was it Rosie's question? Yes. (The building in question does house scientific activity, but that is not its primary function.)
Is it in the UK?
Is it a library?
Is it a museum?
In Germany?
[Rosie] Not in UK
Maritime/ocean connections?
In the UK? Still No. It is in a fixed location, remember. :-)
Library? No.
Museum? Still No.
In Germany? No.
Maritime/ocean connection? Yes.*applause*
A structure in the ocean rather than on land?
In the ocean rather than on land? No.
Is it in mainland Europe?
Would this be an aquarium?
Is it in Poland?
Had to get the letter "p" in there somewhere.
Is it in mainland Europe? No.
Would this be an aquarium? It would not.
Is it in Poland? Positively not.
This is fictional, isn't it?
Fictional? No. Not at all abstract. Very solidly mineral.
In Ireland?
In Ireland? No.
Cleopatra's Needle?
Is it surrounded by water?
Is it a lighthouse?
Eddystone lighthouse?
(as flerdle beat me to my next question by an hour)
Cleopatra's Needle? No. We've established (twice!) that it's not in the UK
Surrounded by water? No.
A lighthouse? Yes! *applause*
Eddystone Lighthouse? No. (Not in the UK, remember...)
Is it in a Nordic country?
Splitting hairs, but...
In a Nordic country? No.
In a Baltic country?
In a Baltic country? No.
Roter Sand lighthouse?
Roter Sand Lighthouse? No.
Is it in Iceland?
Splitting atoms...
Is it in Iceland? I am amazed it took this long for someone to ask!



No.
The Low Countries?
The Low Countries? No.
Is it in Russia?
In Russia? No.
In which case - was it built in 1818?
Was it built in 1818? Well, it was partly built in 1818, and partly prior to then, but ... *tumultuous applause*
Does it shine over an inland sea or lake?
Is it actually a double lighthouse?
In the Crown Dependencies?
The Casquets Lighthouse?
Shine over an inland sea? No.
A double lighthouse? There is a second light, yes. (Just answer it, Irouléguy!)
In the Crown Dependencies? Yes! *applause, mingled with cries of "What took you so long, Software?!"*
Casquets? No.
*grins*
Calf of Man, High and Low?
Calf of Man, High and Low? *applause* but ... No. (Maybe Irg had it wrong as well...)
Is it on or around Guernsey?
I was wrong - I thought it was Calf of Man too. And I'm probably away from my computer this weekend, which is why I'm avoiding taking the baton.
Corbiere lighthouse?
Corbiere? No.
Perhaps someone should ask the other pertinent question.
Is it currently in use?
Currently in use? Yes.
There is easily enough information now for anybody to get the answer with 15 seconds of googling.
Is it on the Isle of Man?
I don't have the time to set one either, but this has been great fun.
On the Isle of Man? Yes.
(*The two remaining members of the audience applaud half-heartedly*)
Is it by any chance the Point of Ayre Lighthouse?
Only because IRG & flerdle, who got to it before me, are too busy.
Point of Ayre?
Ha! Simulposted! Just what is the point of Ayre?
The Point of Ayre Lighthouse, Isle of Man, !UK, is indeed the answer. *hands red and white flashing baton to Phil*
I think this one will be quite quick, I think: ANIMAL
Denis Wise?
Human?
As opposed to Rosie's choice.
An individual?
[Rosie] The Poison Dwarf? NO
[Software] A human? NO
[Raak] An individual? YES (with a very, very, very nerdy trace of NO)
A pet?
[Rosie] A pet? YES *applause*
Lassie?
[CdM] Lassie? NO
Dick Whittington's cat?
[Rosie] DW's Cat? NO
Timmy?
[Dujon] Timmy? NO
Currently alive?
[CdM] Currently alive? NO
Greyfriars Bobby?
Scooby Dooby Doo?
[irach] Greyfriars Bobby? NO
Hidden textincidentally, one of only two films to make my daughter cry

[Projoy] The world's most famous Great Dane? NO
A fictional character?
[Rosie] A fictional character? NO *applause for a good question*
The hamster allegedly consumed by Freddy Starr?
A mammal?
[Rosie] Freddie Starr's Hamster Jam? NO
[CdM} A mammal? YES
Canine?
[irach] Canine? YES *more applause*
Used to be on television?
Rin-Tin-Tin?
Lassie?
[Irouléguy] Used to be on TV? YES *quite a bit more applause*
[Software] & [Kim] I hate to be the one to break the news to you, but Rin-Tin-Tin & Lassie are fictional, so that's a NO to both questions. :-)
Petra (original and surreptitious replacement)?
Shep?
(a logical follow-up question)
[Kim] Petra? YES! Congrats!
I only read about the replacement last week, hence the nerdy "not an individual" answer to Raak's question earlier. Now I need some sleep, having worked about 60 hours in the last 4 days.
*Takes the baton in his mouth and buries it in the back garden*
OK, given the brouhaha over my last attempt to set a poser, I am going to stick this time with a fairly safe ANIMAL
A pair of hands?
[Irouléguy] Not as such.
Human?
[irach] Human? Yes.
Living?
[Rosie] Living? No.
Associated with music?
Male?
Fingers touching (or nearly so)?
European?
[irach] Associated with music? Yes. *Burst of loud applause*
[Rosie] Male? Yes.
[Dujon] Fingers touching? Eh? Please clarify.
[INJ] European? Yes.
A composer?
Mozart?
[Irg] Composer? Yes.
[irach] Which one?
Wolfie, for the love of God?
Leopold Mozart?
Franz Xaver Wolfgang Mozart?
If all else fails....
aka Kim
[Rosie, Projoy, Phil] Not Amadeus, Leopold, Franz Xaver, nor (to save anyone else the bother of trawling endlessly through Wiki) Maria Anne, Carl Bleedin' Philip Emmanuel, PDQ or any other Mozart. Sorry...
What about Irouléguy's suggestion?
[Projoy] What about reading before posting?
[Projoy] Fair cop.
A baroque composer?
[Projoy] Baroque? Technically, no.
German?
Pre-Baroque?
Handel?
(Kim) CPE and PDQ weren't Mozarten; they were Bach(whatever the plural is).
[irach] German? No.
[Projoy] Pre-baroque? Technically, yes.
[Rosie] Handel? No (and, yes, I knew that).
European?
[Projoy] I refer the Hon. Gent. to the answer I gave ImNotJohn yesterday.
Born in the C17th
Oh dear, my basic literacy skills don't seem to be up to much lately.
[Projoy] Mine neiver, that's why Im staying well away frm this one.
William Byrd?
[Projoy] 17th Century? No. That would make him/her Baroque era, I think.
[IRG] Byrd? No.
John Dowland?
Italian?
[Projoy] Dowland? No.
[Phil] Italian? No.
Tomas Luis Vittoria?
[Rosie] TLV? No.
British?
Wrote choral stuff?
[irach] British? Yes.
[Rosie] Choral "stuff"? Yes.
*The audience applauds both questions and anticipates a swift conclusion*
Thomas Tallis?
[Phil] Yes! Phil beats Rosie to the tape.
*Hands over baton to Phil and walks off whistling Glen Miller's "In The Dorian Mood"*
I would like to offer the baton to Irouléguy, or flerdle, who beat me to the lighthouse one, but were unable to spare the time at the time.
Out of town, out of my mind
I'll be away for a fortnight so not me, sorry.
As IRG has not shown up, I'll do what could be another quick one...
ANIMAL or VEGETABLE or MINERAL
The word "Thing"?
[irach] "thing"? NO
Fossil?
[irach] Fossil? NO
A horn?
[Dujon] A horn? NO
Clothing?
Was Dujon asking the right kind of question? That is, is do the word(s) on the card have three separate interpretations/meanings, one animal, one vegatable, and one mineral?
[Projoy] Clothing? NO
[CdM] Words on the card have three separate meanings, one of each type? NO - it's more that it's categorisation is undefined, but not abstract.
Is this a part of a living body (e.g. brain, liver and so on)?
[CdM] Thanks for your question.
[Dujon] Part of a living body? YES, but not in the way you meant from your examples.
Atoms?
[irach] Atoms? NO - *Much applause*
Molecules?
Sub-atomic particles?
Higgs' bosons?
Phil] Thanks for the offer.
[irach] Molecules? NO
[software] Sub-atomic particles? YES *Enthusiastic applause*
[IRG] Higgs' bosons? NO Expectant oohs and aahs
Gluons?
[INJ] Gluons? NO *audience eagerly awaits the right sub-atomic particle*
A quark?
How about a less esoteric "proton"?
Or just the familial 'hadron'?
[IRG] Three quarks for muster mark? 'Fraid not
[irach] Proton? Postively incorrect
[INJ] The humble hadron? YES, by Jiminy!
*hands over a baton made of, amongst other things, hadrons*
Slightly worried about what will happen when the hadrons in my hand collide with those in the baton.
Ah, we appear to be all right.
So let's try ABSTRACT with MINERAL connections
Rock of Ages?
[irach] - aged rock? - NO
*A few members of the audience exchange significant glances*
A statue that no longer exists?
[Phil] - Colossus of Rhodes, etc. - NO
A proverb, aphorism or saying?
[irach] - well-known phrase or saying? - NO
Between a rock and a hard place?
[Raak] - well-known phrase or saying about rocks and hard places? - NO
Title of a literary or theatrical work?
A site or construction of 'cultural significance'?
A flying start
[irach] - Title of a literary or theatrical work? - YES *Applause*
[Dujon] - building site? - NO
Written in the 20th century?
[CdM] - C20 - NO
Title of a book?
[Phil]- Book title? - NO
Play?
This may not take long
[Kim] - Play? - NO
Opera?
Poem?
Film title?
The jukebox musical "We Will Rock You" ?
Are mines involved?
Sorry - called away
[irach] - opera - NO
[Kim] - Poem - YES *Applause*
[Phil] - never heard of it, so - NO
[Raak] - the pits - NO
[irach] - not a film either
"Composed upon Westminster Bridge" by Wordsworth?
Does the mineral connection occur in the title?
Does something to do with rock or stone appear in the title?
Would this have a relationship to a peacock?
Just a matter of time
[irach] - The commuters' poem - NO
[Rosie] - Mineral connection in title - YES
[Phil] - Rock or Stone in title - NO *a few audience murmurs*
[Dujon] - Peacockery - Not to my knowledge
Is there a religious connection?
Does the mineral connection refer to something real (for example "Under Ben Bulben", rather than "The green eye of the little yellow god")?
Is the mineral component water as in "Sea Fever"
Written in C19th?
Does it have anything to do with Hay Fever?
[Kim] - religious connection? - Best answer is NO
CdM - is the mineral real? - Very tricky. I could argue for NO, given the examples you cite, but actually the real answer is 'I don't know (and AFAIK neither does anyone else), but I would guess it was YES'
[irach] - watery - NO
[Projoy] C19 - YES
[Kim] - hay fevery? - NO where did that come from?
Keats?
Alfred Lord Tennyson's poem , "The Holy Grail"
Ode on a Grecian Urn?
(shamelessly climbing on Projoy's shoulders)
*I can't stop myself* - [CdM] What's a Grecian Urn?
Truth is beauty
[CdM] Im sure it is not all ye know on earth, but it is all ye need to know to win this round.
Ode on a Grecian Urn it is.
([Phil] Neither can I) - About 10 drachmas a day
One baton passed on, despite the best efforts of Merlina Mercouri.
VEGETABLE with ANIMAL CONNECTIONS
Bird Seed?
Bird seed? No.
Welsh rabbit?
Is the animal connection part of the name or descriptor of the vegetable?
[INJ] I thought it might be Gray's Allergy.
Welsh rabbit? No.
Animal connection part of name or descriptor of vegetable? Yes. *applause*
horse chestnut?
[Kim] That's dreadful!
She stoops to conker? No.
Is the animal a mammal?
Mammal? Yes.
Swede?
Is the vegetable a fruit?
Swede? No.
Fruit? No.
Edible?
Is it processed?
Is the vegetable a grass?
Edible? Yes.
Processed? No.
A grass? No.
Is the vegetable a vegetable?
Is tha answer just the name of the vegetable?
is the animal human?
King Edwards?
Answer just the name of the vegetable? Yes.
Is the animal human? Yes.
King Edwards? King Edward's what? Oh, sorry, No.
Broccoli?
Is the vegetable a vegetable? No. (Sorry, I missed that earlier.)
Broccoli? No.
Is the vegetable a berry?
Is the vegetable a flower?
Is the vegetable a seed or grain?
Any other options?
Berry? No.
Flower? Yes. *applause*
Seed or grain? No. But there is a connection. *brief puzzled pause, followed by audience laughter*
A specific named varietal?
Not sure of my technical terms here - I mean are we looking for something like 'Rosa Alan Titchmarsh' rather than 'a tea rose'?
Dog Rose?
Queen Anne's Lace?
A specific named varietal? Yes. *applause* (But it isn't Rosa Titchmarsh, whoever she may be.)
Dog rose? No.
Purple clover, Queen Anne's Lace? No.
Female personna?
Is the animal a specific, named individual?
Female? Yes.
Specific named individual? Yes.
Is it a rose?
Rose? No.
Is it a cultivar (as opposed to a wildflower)?
Cultivar? Yes.
Flowering herb?
A rose?
A bulb flower?
Flowerin' 'erb? No.
Rose? Still no.
Bulb flower? No.
It is a flower whose type is often to be found in an English garden?
Nelly Moser?
In an English country garden? No.
Nelly Moser? No.
A female name?
Female name? Still yes.
Oops.. I. meant a female royal name?
Royal name? *brief pause for thought* Er, no. *audience laughter*
It is a flower whose type is often to be found on an English window-sill?
That is, would it be potted rather than growing in a flower-bed.
In an English country windowsill? No.
Is the female person's name integral to the name of the flower (eg, "Violet") as opposed to a variety of flower named after a specific individual?
Integral Name? No. INJ's Rosa Alan Titchmarsh is the exact form you are looking for: <flower><first name><last name>.
A tropical variety ?
Camellia Hari Withers?
Tropical? Largely topical, yes. *applause*
Parker-Bowles-Googie-Withers? No.
An aquatic plant?
Aquatic? No.
Er, in answer to irach's previous question, it is largely tropical. It is not particularly topical.
Native to the S.E. of the U.S.of A.?
Native to SEUSA? No. Which, um, you might have deduced from the fact that the SEUSA is not tropical...
Native to SE Asia?
Does it grow higher than a telephone box?
Native to SE Asia? Yes. (I could give a rather more detailed and pedantic answer, but I think Yes is the most helpful.)
Higher than a phone box? No.
A fragrant flower?
Fragrant? Hmmm... In general these flowers are often fragrant but I don't know for sure about this particular varietal.
In the orchid family?
An oleander variety?
In the orchid family? Yes. *applause*
oleander? No.
Masdevallia Celine Dion?
MCd? No.
Is the female person alive?
As this could take a long time...
Vanda Miss Joaquim?
Orchid Cyd (Charrisse) ?
Living? Yes.
Vanda Miss Joaquim? No, but *significant applause*
Orcyd? No.
Vanda Annette Jones?
Vanda Annette Jones? No. *significant silence*
Is it a 'National Flower'?
National flower? No. At least, that's not a description I would use... *laughter*
(I like this audience. It laughs at my jokes.)
(Perhaps the 'significant applause' to Miss Joaquim was too strong. Think of it more as applause that recognized a connection to the answer.)
N.B. We knew she was a national treasure, but it turns out that Linnea Borealis is also Sweden's national flower
Is it in the sub-family Apostasioideae?
Apostosio ... Apostasioioi ... Apastasio ... what he said? No.
Dendrobium Imelda Marcos?
Must be a slipper orchid.
Dendrobium Imelda Marcos? No. *the audience greets INJ's joke with stony silence*

However, then *the audience applauds excitedly*. "Dendrobium" is indeed the first word on the card. And "Imelda Marcos"? No, but ... so very, very close. *guffaws of laughter from the audience*.
I hate to have to say this, but [INJ], your sources have deceived you - the twinflower is the province flower of one of Sweden's provinces, it's not a national flower. (Sweden doesn't have one.) It's quite pretty though :-)
Aranthera Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo?
Please ignore my earlier question. I cross-posted.
Dendrobium victoriae-reginae?
Is the named person connected with politics?
[Phil] Good grief, is she still alive?
[Néa] Sadly, you're right (of course), but it does appear as a factoid in quite a few places.
D'oh!
Does the first letter of the second word come in the second half of the alphabet?
AGMA? No.
DVR? No.
Connected with politics? Yes. *applause*,
First letter of second word in third half of the alphabet? No (nor in the second half).
Was it initially hybridised in Singapore?
Hybridised in Singapore? Yes. *applause*
Well, I've got 2 that match all the criteria (though there are probably more, since it seems to be the norm that important visitors are given a tour of the Orchid Gardens and then have the latest cultivar named after them). However, etiquette demands that someone else gets a go first....
[INJ] I don't know -- I think you asked the vast majority of the key questions in this round (identifying it as a specific named varietal, native to SE Asia, and as an orchid, for example), so I doubt if anyone would begrudge you victory. I'm surprised you found more than one, given all the audience reactions, although I haven't checked the list myself.
[CdM] I agree. I think that INJ should deliver the cut of grass and take the baton. I was persuaded by the audience reaction and your response to INJ's "Imelda Marcos" suggestion that the connection was the Phillipines.
Philippines? No. Don't listen to the audience; they are purposely being obscurantist.
Let's try Den. Kaneko Ikeda?
Thank goodness that it wasn't in the 2nd half of the alphabet, or I'd have been forced to try den. Margaret Thatcher!
If this is wrong then it's definitely someone else's turn
And then again.....
Ah, I've just realised that you could take the 'second word' question 2 ways - I was thinking about the second word of the name, not the second word on the card. If I have misapprehended, then please amend my answer as appropriate - especially as St Margaret is a 'better' answer.
Den. Margaret Thatcher it is! A delicate flower if ever there was one (and, yes, I puzzled over the meaning of "second word" too). *hands hybridized baton to INJ*
*ponders the matter of how confusing the term "second word" can be, given that one had just been informed of the correctness of the first word* The list of 1900 dendrobia did not include that one :-(
[Phil] Nothing wrong with your question, and I answered it correctly -- but I did have the same initial reaction as INJ. I think that, mentally, the first word was out of the way, and we were now concentrating on a two-word name, so it was easy to think of the second word in that delimited context.
(Or, possibly, it's some kind of genetic defect.)
I put it down to dipping in and out very quickly.
The next one is MINERAL with ANIMAL connections
The Old Man of Hoy?
[CdM] - A Hoy there? - NO
I'm pretty much in wall-to-wall meetings today, so may not get back to this until later. So here's a few answers in advance:
- NO
- Partly
Damn, I didn't think you'd ask that - YES
[INJ] Are you a carpet fitter by trade?
Is the animal human?
[INJ] Is dipping in and out a genetic defect too? *grins*
Mineral metallic?
Is it pig iron?
OK here we go
[Kim] - Carpet Fitter? - NO ;-)
[Phil] - Human? - NO (anticipated as first question)
[Software] - Metal? - NO (wrong question)
[Kim] - Rock Island Line cargo? - NO (you were obviously put off by Software getting it wrong)
Is the animal a bird?
[Néa] - a bird? - NO
Is the animal a mammal?
Rock lobster?
[Irach] - a mammal? - YES
[Phil] - Rocky Lobster Show - NO
A farm animal?
Is the subject a representation of said mammal?
[irach] - cowsheepchickenllama? - NO
[Dujon] - a representation? - NO (but *some applause*)
Tiger-eye (the gemstone)?
A natural feature?
Does it begin with P?
[irach] - Eye of the tiger? - NO
[Rosie] - Natural? - NO
[CdM] - P-led? - Damn, I didn't think you'd ask that - YES
Is it the animal component that begins with the letter "P"?
[irach] - Panimals? - NO
Unique?
[INJ] Is that because you thought I'd ask that, not CdM?
The "Pink Panther" gem of Clouseau infamy?
[Tuj] -Unique - YES (No, just because it hadn't been asked so much recently)
[irach] - La Panthère Rose? - NO
Smaller than a toaster?
[INJ] Ah. Well, I've not spent much time MCing lately =)
[Tuj] < Toaster - NO
Would this be a fossil?
A work of art?
[Dujon] - Fossil? - NO
[CdM] - Work of art? - NO is probably the most useful answer, though there will be dissenting voices
A work of architecture?
[CdM] - The Built Environment? - YES (I couldn't have made that much more obvious, could I?)
Oh, and *audience applause*
Is the animal feline?
Spooky
[Iroul] - with cat-like tread? - YES *considerable applause*
Is it a building with a feline link in the name?
Just to confirm
[Phil] - Is it a building with a feline link in the name? - it is a work of architecture with a feline link in its name
Is the work of architecture in the USA?
[Kim] - In USA? - NO
Is it zoomorphic?
Is the "cat" actually a puddy tat as opposed to, say, a lion?
A lion in Trafalgar Square
A few weeks ago, only one team out of eight in my pub quiz got the correct answer to "How many stone lions are there in Trafalgar Square?"
Hidden textNone, they are made of bronze
[GIII] - zoomorphic - NO
[Rosie] - Minimog? - NO *applause*
[Phil] - I knew the answer to that question, therefore I refer you to my answer to Software (OK then, - NO - to save you looking)
Sports connected?
Arts connected?
Is the work of architecture in England?
[Iroul] - Sporty? - NO
[Kim] - Arty? - NO
[Rosie] - Anglo-Saxony? - NO
The Pantheon
[Software] - Pantheon? - NO
Is it in Asia?
[Phil] - In Asia? - NO *audience remains interested*
BTW - as a clarification - the words on the card do begin with a 'P'. However, I would accept an answer that doesn't. Is that confusing enough?
In Australasia?
Is it a club?
[Phil] - OZ? - NO
[Kim] - clubbable? - NO
Is it on an island?
ie as opposed to a continent
[Iroul] - On an island? - NO
Don't read too much into the audience reaction - it would be helpful to find out where this is, but that's not the only line of approach.
In Europe?
[Rosie] - In Europe? - YES
In Spain?
Homing in
[Kim] In Spain - YES *audience applauds eagerly*
"El Gato de Botero" en Barcelona?
[irach] - Puss in Boots? - NO
Is it Moorish architecture?
Does the P stand for "Plaza"?
Worth waiting for
[Néa] Moorish? - YES *loud applause*
[Phil] - P-laza? - NO
Patio de los Leones?
It's the CdM and INJ show
[CdM] Claro que si
It is the Patio de los Leones, or Lion Courtyard, in the Alhambra in Granada.
*hands an exquisitely carved baton to CdM*
That was dangerously close to a lurker's victory. This next is I think best described as
ANIMAL
though some might make a case for ABSTRACT with ANIMAL connections.
A lion's share?
Lion's share? No. (For the record, that is much more definitely abstract than what is on the card.)
An animal product?
A breed of animal?
An expression?
Animal product? No (at least not in the sense that I presume you mean).
Breed of animal? No.
An expression? No. *some muttering and discussion in the audience, however*
The title of a work of art/literature/other stuff like that?
Is it something that is made from Animal?
A collective term?
Entitlement? No.
Made from animal? No.
Collective term? *audience goes "oooooh"* Yes, sort of. Or possibly No, not exactly.
Is the animal a particular species?
Is the animal human?
A particular species? No.
Human? I've been waiting for this question, yet I'm still not quite sure how to answer it. In a more narrow and literal sense, the best answer is probably No, but in a broader and/or figurative sense the answer is Yes, in some cases.
Does this relate to intelligence?
Related to intelligence? No. (There might sometimes be a connection with the figurative sense of the words on the card, but I think No is the best answer.)
Herd instinct?
Herd instinct? *a moment of surprised silence, followed by loud applause* No.
Does the answer on the card describe a type of behaviour?
A type of behavior? Yes (for a reasonably broad definition of behavior).
Is the behaviour aggressive?
Herd mentality?
A swarm?
Migration?
It being that time of year.
Aggressive? Not aggressive as such, but still *a smattering of applause*
Herd mentality? No.
A swarm? No, but * applause*
Migration? No, but *a little applause*
A stampede?
A stampede is correct! *throws the baton in Rosie's direction and runs out of the way as quickly as possible*
(CdM) Fear not. Now, where's Mandelson?

This next one is A N I M A L.

Non-human?
Non-human? No.
Alive?
A specific, named individual?
A specific named individual? - No. *mild audience amusement*
Alive? - Some are, some aren't.
A race?
A nationality?
Holders of a particular office?
(Phil) Not a race. A race apart, some would say.
(nights) Not a nationality.
(Irouléguy) Not a holder of a particular office.

The words on the card are singular, preceded by the indefinite article.

A Corporation Sole?
(Kim) Er, wossat then? I don't think it's the answer.
The rich?
...being different from the rest of us.
A spin-doctor?
A pejorative description applied to a group?
A royal family?
(Irouléguy) No, not the rich.
(Softers) Spinner/Spinster? No, but *some audience murmurs of appreciation.*
(INJ) Not pejorative, but a group, yes.
(Graham III) Not the royals. *some mild audience laughter.*
The Government
A Governmental or political post or office?
A Corporation Sole is an entity in law comprising, at all times and from time to time, a single individual. It enables property to vest in the entity without having to be transferred each time the individual changes. Its helpful, for example, in ecclesiastical matters, where the property (churches, land, etc) subsisting in a particular diocese (eg, Chelmsford) vests in the Corporation Sole (eg, "The Diocesan Bishop of Chelmsford") rather than the particular individual who happens to hold that post at that moment (currently, The Rt Revd John Gladwin). Hope that helps.
(Phil) Not the government.
(Kim) Not a political office. Not an office at all, really.
Is this an occupation (e.g. Soldier, Sailor, Candlestick maker)?
Is one of the words on the card a collective noun?
Is this specific to a particular culture or country?
To do with the written word?
Is it related to a game or pastime?
Related to the military?
(Dujon) An occupation - YES
(CdM) Any collective nouns? NO.
(Irouléguy) Particular country or culture? No, but certainly more prevalent in some cultures.
(Softers) Written word? YES. *vigorous audience applause*
(Bigsmith) Game or pastime-related. Can be, but certainly not necessarily. *some scattered hesitant applause*
(Raak) Militarily related? NO.
Second thoughts
The audience could possibly have made a bit more of Bigsmith's question.
Connected with education?
Are there TWO words on the card in addition to the indefinite article?
(INJ) Connected with education? NO.
(Chalky) Two words plus indefinite article? YES.
Do either of the two words begin with P? :-)
A sci-fi writer?
(Chalky) Pinitial? - Psorry but NO.
(Phil) NO, not sci-fi.
A Poet Laureate?
(irach) The poet Laurie ate? NO. *cruel audience laughter*
A Weather Forecaster?
(Chalky) Not a forecaster. (See Softers' last question).
Are puzzles involved?
(Dujon) Puzzles? NO.
related to journalism?
A critic?
(INJ) Related to journalism? Strictly speaking no, but there is frequently a connection. *audience applause*
(Softers) Not a critic.
An author?
Related to the law?
A Movie (or Theatre) critic?
(Phil) Author? A case could be made out for YES. *applause*
(Kim) Not law-related.
(irach) Not any kind of critic. (see Softers' last question).
A sports writer?
A ghost writer?
(Softers) Could be, but not the words on the card.
(irach)_ A GHOST WRITER it is. Well done, as long as it's your own words. :-). Over to you; make it easy.
Okay, this one is ABSTRACT WITH MINERAL CONNECTIONS
Coal mining?
[Rosie] Not coal mining.
A human concept?
Neil Young's 'After the goldrush'?
Between a rock and a hard place?
[Software] Not as such.
[Irouleguy] No. [Bigsmith] No. (Smattering of audience attention)
Visible in nature?
[Kim] Figuratively, yes....
Ahem...
Begins with a P?
Is it a saying?
[Tuj] Ahem...Ahem... No.
[Graham III] Yes, a saying of sorts.
Does it involve a natural feature?
{Rosie] Not so much a natural feature as a natural object.
Is the mineral rock?
A gold mine?
Are precious metals involved?
[ImNotJohn] The mineral component is composed of rock, but not the word "rock" per se.
[Software] Not a gold mine.
[Kim] No precious metal.
A stone's throw?
[Software] You got it! Close enough and yes, cigar."Just a Stone's Throw Away" were the exact words on the card.
P
This round begins with a "P".
Perfect :)
Looks to me like it began with a T.
[CdM] Hmm, I think you're right. Maybe we should wait 'til it's penelope's turn to set one.
Who? Me?
Well I never! I actually guessed it!!

Mmmm, bu**er! That means I'll have to think of something.

I know!

ABSTRACT with ANIMAL, MINERAL and VEGETABLE connections.

Anarcho-Syndicalist Recipe for Pot-roast?
One day, mark my words....!
Does it appear in the works of Douglas Adams?
A television series?
Does it start with a B?
[Tuj] ;-Q
Raak - No, but could easily have done so :o).
Tuj - No.
G III - B? No.
"The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe"?
Is it unique?
[GIII] Well, what face are you pulling there?
A human construct?
An imaginary planet from a science-fiction novel?
Tuj] I think it's 'tongue-in-cheek'.
irach: Nope.
Tuj: Well, yes and no. * audience mutters *
Rosie: Yes, absolutely.
Iro: No.
Is the answer the title of an artistic work?
I'm assuming that Anarcho-syndicalist watsit was off the mark....
Anything to do with the current banking crisis?
Kim: - That's a matter of opinion, but the least misleading answer is No.
Rosie: - Yes.
Is it a collaterised debt obligation?
A sub-prime mortgage?
Is it a financial vehicle?
G III: - A what? er No.
Raak: - No. * audience mutters *
IMJ: - Not a financial vehicle.
Is the vegetable connection paper?
A set of rules or protocols?
CdM: - Yes
Rosie: - No.
A legal document?
Is the word "money" in the answer?
Frozen pig belly futures?
Don't believe me?
Hmm, case of the disappearing web reference. Try Here
Dow Jones' Industrial Average
The Financial Times?
Raak: - Not a free lunch for a lawyer, No.
Tuj: - Not as such, No.* audience stirs *
G III: - Interesting, but No.
irach: - No. * audience nervous laughter *
Phil: - No.
Monetary policy?
Is a particular currency part of the answer?
The RPI?
Was it originally 3 pages long?
CdM: - No.
Irouléguy: - No.
Raak: - No.
G III: - No.
Payment in cash?
Was it something that the typical player of this game was likely to have given much thought to a month or more ago?
Rosie: - No. * audience chuckles *
CdM: - It's probably something that has been on many a morniverser's mind, so Yes.
"The stock market"?
Anything to do with pensions?
Is the answer an abbreviation?
Anything to do with mortgages?
Is Tuj an abbreviation?
Any chance that you might answer the questions by indicating which question you are referring to?
The credit crunch?
Do the paper and mineral connections refer to money?
irach: - No. * audience mutters *
Tuj: - No.
Kim: - Yes. * a few claps from the audience *
Chalky: - I didn't think there was any ambiguity.
Irouléguy: - Spot on! YES. Over to you!
CdM: - Close, but no cigar.
*steeples fingers* Ex-cellent! Smithers, throw another pauper on the fire.

OK, our next is ANIMAL or VEGETABLE or MINERAL, or possibly a combination thereof.
McDonald's Meal?
Michael Jackson?
irach] McDonald's Meal? No
Tuj] Michael Jackson? Nice one - but no
Human animal?
Is this one thing in three or more different versions?
Is it always the same size/shape?
Software - Human animal? No
Rosie - Is this one thing in three or more different versions? *murmurs of approval from the audience* Yes, though the versions part is a bit of a red herring.
Tuj - Is it always the same size/shape? *hum of discussion in the audience* Size, no; shape - umm, sort of.
Glue or Adhesive? It can be derived from animal, vegetable or mineral.
Would this be a carving?
I do not mean the head of the house at Sunday dinner.
Manufactured?
[Software] I think you may have misread my extremely awkwardly worded penultimate question in your round, but no matter. :-)
(or maybe not, I suppose -- I think that there was more credit crunch talk in the UK than in many other places following the Northern Rock failure...)
# irach] Glue or Adhesive? It can be derived from animal, vegetable or mineral. *applause* No, though glue or another adhesive could well be involved.
Dujon - Would this be a carving? No
CdM] Manufactured? Yes (though not necessarily machine-made)
CdM] I think you're right the second time - my guess was a response to yours and Rosie's questions together, so Softers' answer worked.
Can one make one of these things oneself?
Rosie] Can one make one of these things oneself? *applause* Yes
Is it a one-word answer?
Tuj] Is it a one-word answer? One word plus an indefinite article
Have you made one of these things?
Is it decorative rather than functional?
CdM] Have you made one of these things? Yes, though not very well.
Rosie - Is it decorative rather than functional? No - the other way round.

Hint - sometimes it's plural rather than singular.
Is the animal connection in the form of a material, like leather?
Is it an item of clothing?
Software - Is the animal connection in the form of a material, like leather? * loud applause* Yes
Kim - Is it an item of clothing? *muted applause* No
Is it an item of footwear?
A bag or similar functional container?
Kim - Is it an item of footwear? No
irach - A bag or similar functional container? No
A belt?
Is the animal material actually leather?
irach - A belt? Yes
Rosie - Is the animal material actually leather? It could be, but not necessarily.
An item of national dress?
Graham III - An item of national dress? No
Suspenders?
irach - Suspenders? No
Is this an article into which an object (or objects) are inserted?
I am thinking here about tool belts, bandoliers, holsters and their ilk.
Dujon] Is this an article into which an object (or objects) are inserted?
Interesting guess, but no. Some of those things might have one (or more) of these, though.

Hint the second - it's not any type of undergarment.
A watch strap?
Would it normally be worn by a person?
(Rather than an animal)
Software - A watch strap? No
ImNotJohn - Would it normally be worn by a person? Person rather than an animal, yes - but it's not 'worn' as such.
Is it associated with a particular profession?
Graham III] Is it associated with a particular profession? No
A buckle or similar fastener?
Garters?
A dog tag?
Fanny Pack? Bum Bag?
CdM] A buckle or similar fastener? *some applause* No
Rosie] Garters? No
Software] A dog tag? No
irach] Fanny Pack? Bum Bag? Nono
A safety harness?
A seat belt?
Rosie - A safety harness? An interesting guess, but no
irach - A seat belt? Hardly
A bandolier?
A noose?
Is its primary function to attach something to some other thing (for a broad definition of thing)?
Also, does it begin with P?
Phil]A bandolier? Er, no
Graham III - A noose? My word, no
CdM - Is its primary function to attach something to some other thing (for a broad definition of thing)? *applause* Attaching - yes, sort of. Something to something else - no.
CdM - Also, does it begin with P? No (though it was Tuj who gave me the idea).
Dog leash?
A knee pad?
irach] Dog leash? No
Software] A knee pad? No

As CdM is wont to say, examine your assumptions. There's one assumption in particular that is leading people in the wrong direction.
A pair of hand cuffs?
Or any other sort of bondage equipment?
Is it usually part of a larger item?
Oh dear.
A Conveyer belt?
Graham III] A pair of hand cuffs? No (vegetable hand-cuffs?)
Raak - Or any other sort of bondage equipment? No, perfectly SFW
Tuj - Is it usually part of a larger item? *applause* Yes, always
irach - A Conveyer belt? No
A collar?
they could be made of string? Not necessarily good hand-cuffs, but hand-cuffs all the same.
Graham III - A collar? No
Hand-cuffs] Touché

A dressing gown cord?
Is it elastic?
When you made this thing, did you also make the larger item?
I think it is INJ who is wont to want you to examine your assumptions.
Graham III] A dressing gown cord? No
ImNotJohn] Is it elastic? No (hypothetically, I suppose it could be)
CdM - When you made this thing, did you also make the larger item? *murmurs of 'Good question' from the audience* No. If you made the larger item, you would also make this (or these) in the process, but people will also make (or remake) this (or these) having bought (or otherwise acquired) the larger item.

Apologies for any false attribution - it's good advice, whoever said it.
Is it decorative?
Graham III - Is it decorative? It can be, but it's primarily functional.
A saddle?
Is it used to carry something?
OK – let’s try to see what we know:
It is a belt but it is not worn as such and is not an item of clothing. It is a part of a larger whole, but can be made separately (a replaceable part?) It may be made of A, V or M and is always ‘sort of’ the same shape although the size can vary. If Animal this could be leather. Manufactured although not necessarily by machine. Irg has made one. It is functional rather than decorative. It has some 'sort of' connection with 'attaching' but not of one thing to another (still slightly confused by that). The answer is one word plus the indefinite article, but this could exist in the plural. It is not normally elastic (although that is not impossible). It does not normally contain or hold other things (bandolier, tool belt)
It is not: a buckle or fastener (applause), garters, dog tag or leash, safety harness, seat belt, handcuffs or other bondage gear, a conveyor belt or a number of other things excluded by the things we know.
Is it a drive belt?
Raak] Is it a drive-belt? YES! (Specifically a fanbelt, but that's good enough).Apologies for the 'connecting one thing to another' answer, which I think was wrong now - I was trying to get at the idea of it being internal. And the answer to Dujon's tool-belts question was misleading, as I didn't read it properly. Not one of my better ones. One baton improvised from tights handed over to Raak.
That was unexpected. Hmm... MINERAL and ANIMAL, with ABSTRACT connections.
Is it manmade?
By the by, the answer "Would it normally be worn by a person? Person rather than an animal, yes - but it's not 'worn' as such." rather threw me. Did you mean "NO"?
[G III] Man-made? Something man-made is involved.
Is the mineral metal?
But is it art?
[Software] Partly metal.
[G III] Not art.
Is the animal portion canine?
An everyday object?
Begins with a P?
[Irouléguy] Can I ask about the "it was Tuj who gave me the idea"?
[irach] Not canine.
[Rosie] Not an everyday object. Not in the sense you mean, that is. *laughter*
[Tuj] Yes! It does indeed begin with a P! Is that a first?
P-research
[Raak] No, it is a seventh, though I have asked the question 59 times.
People who aren't me have an improved success rate of 3 out of 12.
Meanwhile Raak has asked if the word has ended in P, and CdM set the answer "the set of all words beginning with P".
Does this relate to time?
[Dujon] Relates to time? In a way.
Is the animal part living?
Are the abstract connections to a work of art?
[Tuj] Also related: around the same time I also set "A P" in the sense of the Associated Press, and "urine".
[Tuj] The animal part is living.
[CdM] Not related to a work of art.
A horse and cart?
[Rosie] Not a horse and cart.
A cage?
[Rosie] Not a cage.
"Pig in a poke" ?
[irach] Not a pig in a poke.
Is the animal a source of energy to be used as, for example, motive power?
[Rosie] The animal makes it happen? Yes.
A Pony and Trap?
[Software] Not a pony and trap. The "motive power" thing may be misleading.
Is it the animal part that begins with the "P"?
[irach] The animal part is not the part beginning with P.
A rat-race?
[Rosie] Not a rat-race.
Is there an agricultural connection?
[Kim] Nothing to do with agriculture. *snoring from the audience*
Is the animal a mammal?
[Rosie] The animal is a mammal.
Is the animal normally associated with human contact (e.g. pet or livestock)?
[G III] Not a pet, not livestock. Associated with human contact? Well...you're thinking on the wrong lines. Hint: a frequently asked question has not yet been asked.
Animal human?
Why the FAQ didn't I ask that earlier?
Is the abstract connection a metaphor?
Fictional?
[Rosie] At last! The animal is himan.
[CdM] The abstract connection is a metaphor.
[Tuj] Not fictional. (Knowledgeable members of the audience and those who have just googled it murmur.) Not intended as fictional.
Is it "Manpower"?
[Kim] Not "Manpower".
Related to the bible?
Is the mineral part a specific object?
[G III] Not related to the bible.
[Rosie] Yes, a specific mineral object.
Is the human currently living?
[Kim] Not applicable. Not a specific human.
"People Power"
Is the mineral object implied rather than specified?
[Rosie] Yes to both.
Is this a phrase?
[Tuj] It is a phrase.
Is the word that begins with P "Power"?
[irach, sorry I overlooked this] Not "People Power".
[Kim] P is not for "power".
Summary: the phrase describes a specified mineral object, an implied one, and some human activity, and the whole is also a metaphor. Not biblical, artistic, or any of the specific guesses so far. It begins with a P.
The Press?
[Rosie] Not The Press. The very first word of this begins with a P.
Is the animal human part a plural noun?
[irach] The animal human is not mentioned.
Is the mineral partly glass?
Platinum artist?
[CdM] No glass.
[staniel] Not a platinum artist. (Not an artistic thing.)
*the audience sign up for cryonic suspension*
Is the metaphor assoicated with human endeavour (eg, nose to the grindstone, shoulder to the wheel, that kind of thing)?
[Kim] Yes! Exactly that sort of thing!
Are the second and third letters U and T?
[CdM] Putting? No.
Is it also the title of a film?
First word a present participle?
Are the second and third letters U and L?
[Kim] Not the title of a film, according to IMDB. I think it ought to be, though. It would be rather a long one.
[Rosie] The first word is a present participle.
[Tuj] PULl the other one, it's got bells on.
Is there a mythical connection?
[Kim] No mything links.
Pulling your weight?
[Rosie] Not pulling your weight.
Are the second and third letters of the first word "U" and "S"?
[Kim] Pushy? No.
Any links to a game?
[INJ] Nothing to do with a game.
There are four words on the card.
I see my summary left out the information that this thing has a connection with time.
Painting the Forth bridge?
Aha!
[INJ] We have a winner! One bottomless bucket and a paintbrush handed over.
semi-lurking
I didn't think anyone would object, given how long this one has been going.
Rather more quickly, I hope, you will get to:
Abstract with Animal Connections - (Actually I could claim it as Abstract with Animal connections on 2 counts and Animal with Abstract connections on 1 - but don't let that confuse you)
Leaving now
Won't be looking at this until tomorrow morning now, I'm afraid.
Is the animal part human?
An activity?
[Kim] Human? - NO
[Rosie] Activity? - NO
An expression?
[Software] Expression? - NO
Is the animal of a species that exists in the world today?
Good question
[Kim] Animal species exists today? - NO (however, I am just a little wary of the exact form in which the question was asked)
Is the animal mythical?
[Raak] Mythical animal? - Hmm - NO, unless you mean 'is it fictional?', in which case, the answer is YES
A specific fictional animal?
(i.e., an individual animal like "White Fang")
Animal common in fantasy literature?
[CdM] Specific animal - YES
[G3] Common in Fantasy Literature? - NO
Begins with a P?
Does the animal appear predominantly in books?
[Tuj] THE question? - NO
[Kim] booky animal? - NO
From a children's movie?
[CdM] From children's film? - NO (and he claims he doesn't speak American)
Is the animal a human construction?
[Kim] Human Construction? - YES (in the sense that I think you mean)
Also YES in another sense *a few chuckles from the audience* and NO in a very obscure sense.
Confused enough now?
An animal bred for some purpose?
Is it an animal of legend (as distinct from myth)?
[G3] bred for some purpose? - NO
[Kim] Legend rather than myth? - NO - If anything the reverse, but neither is a good description
Is the animal a member of a real species (dog rather than hipporhinocecow, for example)
trying to hone in based on some previous answers...
And I never claimed any such thing. I speak American almost fluently.
[CdM] Member of real species? - YES
[CdM] "hone in"? **bang!!**
[Raak] ooops...
An animal of folklore?
[Raak] Although... maybe I was just demonstrating my command of fluent American for INJ. According to the M-W Dictionary of English Usage
The phrase [hone in] seems to have become established in American English, and is apparently beginning to be used in British English (Garner has a British example). If you use it, you should be aware that some people will think you have made a mistake.
Not surprisingly, the folks at Language Log have have also discussed it quite a bit. One of the interesting things is that though the verb to home has been around a long time, home in and hone in are both recent coinages. None of which is meant as a serious defense in my particular case, by the way; had I noticed it, I would have certainly chosen home in in preference.
Not well-honed
[Kim] Folklore? - NO
Is this animal primarily known for some artistic representation of it?
[CdM] artiswtically represented - NO (except for fairly wide definitions of 'artistic' and 'representation')
Is it a species of animal, rather than a single example?
[Kim] Species? - The answer would technically be a species, but it is known by a single example
From an adult film?
Not an "adult" film, you understand. Just an adult film.

(We now know that this animal is fictional, but not from a book, children's film, or known from an artistic representation...)
Would the aminal/species be known conventionally as a "dinosaur"?
[CdM] Film for adults - NO
[Kim] Dino? - NO
So, by a process of elimination....
From a teenage film?
Is the animal the subject of a poem?
Building on CdM's summary, if I have this right, the individual animal has never actually existed but is a human construction, represented not in books or artistic representation (which I take to mean painting, drawing, sculpture, etc) and not in any film made for children, adults or teenagers but in some other artistic form; moreover, the species to which the animal belongs is a real species, but the species does not exist in the world today, nor is it what we would call a "dinosaur".
Trojan horse?
From TV?
At last
[Kim] Subject of poem? - NO *some chuckles in the audience*
[G3] Trojan Horse? - NO
[CdM] TV - YES *sighs of relief*
The summary is correct, except around the 'species' (and this is my fault). It's probably best to say that the genus is real and current, but this particular creature isn't. After all, it doesn't exist, so has never been classified, so I'm extrapolating here - is it a species or a sub-species - search me. However, I suspect that you would probably think of it as part of an existing species.
Is/was there a real animal or animals who played the part of this fictional animal on TV?
(e.g., Flipper the wonder horse, Lassie the bush kangaroo) (I'm assuming not, because otherwise I think INJ would have led with Animal rather than Abstract ... but INJ's original definition did seem to leave the door open for lots of things.)
Mister Ed?
Was it a TV cartoon?
Associated with a particular actor?
Is the TV show named after the animal?
[CdM] Real Animal played part? NO (or I certainly hope not)
[Phil] Mr Ed? - NO
[Raak] Cartoon? - NO
[Projoy] Particular actor? - NO, not as such *Some muttering in the audience*[Kim] Named after animal? - NO
Mr. Blobby?
Is the animal a puppet?
Was the audience muttering because a known actor voiced this character?
Is our elusive friend a puppet?
Whoops! Sorry, Kim.
I'm also going to request a clarification on the classification. Though you have classified this primarily as abstract, does (or did) it still have some physical (presumably vegetable or mineral) existence? (Although maybe that is just a very roundabout way of asking Kim's question for the third time!)
[Raak] Mr Blobby? - NO
[Kim] Puppet? - NO
[CdM] Voiced by well-known actor - NO
[Dujon] - still no
CdM - Some physical existence? - YES *some applause* (but the classification is still correct)
Was this animal played by an actor in costume?
Not a real animal, not a puppet, and not a cartoon. Not many possibilities left.
Was the animal invisible?
Do we take your earlier rejection of "cartoon" to include all forms of amination?
Is it a logo or mascot?
I am thinking along the lines of something like Pudsey the bear (though not him of course as he begins with P).
One of the Playschool toys?
Just as an observation, we have nothing indicating that this is a children's show, though I think we are all tending to assume that it is.
[CdM] Gorilla-suited? - N)
[Raak] Invisible? - NO
[Kim] animated? - NO (I don't split hairs in this game)
[Bigsmith] Logo/Mascot - NO
Playschool? - NO
[CdM] Good point, well made.
Pantomime horse?
Well this is proving harder than I had ever imagined
[Software] Panto pony? - NO (precluded by answer to CdM's previous question)
Not a real animal, not a puppet, not a costumed actor, not invisible, not a cartoon or other animation. We are obviously missing something here but I am drawing a blank.
Was this animal ever seen (in some form or another) by the TV viewers?
Avian?
getting warmer
[CdM] Was the animal seen? - YES (it will become clear)
[irach] birdy? - YES *relieved applause*
"Phoenix rising from the ashes"?
[irach] Phoenix? - NO
Did the animal have an individual name?
"Eagle eye"?
Did the TV show feature a representation of this bird (e.g., a picture) rather than the bird itself?
[Raak] Named? - NO *a few murmurs in the audience*
[irach] Eagle eye? - Never heard of it, so NO
[CdM] Representation? YES(ish), a picture? - NO
There are 3 words on the card, including the indefinite article.
Is this from a comedy show?
[CdM] comedy show? - YES Loud and relieved applause*
Is it visible during the show?
[Phil] Visible? - YES
A Liver Bird?
[CdM] Liver Bird - Good guess, but NO
Was this seen in a pet shop?
"Dead Parrot" a la Monty Python?
Close enough for jazz
I don't want to draw this out so I declare irach the winner! The answer on the card was A Norwegian Blue
[CdM] The category that had not been suggested was 'a prop/model'
(To explain the convoluted intro 'a Norwegian Blue' can also be an orienteering course or the nickname of the earliest fossil proto-psittacoid, which was found in Scandinavia.)
One baton totally bereft of life handed on to irach.
Simulposted with:

That must be it, though I am guessing that "A Norwegian Blue" are the actual words on the card. (That's irach's win, not mine, if correct.)
Well, that one was put to rest at last. The psittacoid in question pining for the fjords is now in birdie Valhalla.... The next one is ANIMAL with an ABSTRACT Connotation.
Human?
A single individual animal?
Is the answer a phrase?
[CdM] Non-human.
[IMJ] More than one.
[Rosie] Sort of a phrase.
Lemmings?
A single species of animal?
A team or pack?
[Tuj] Not lemmings.
[CdM] Not a single species.
[Rosie] A team of sorts, not a pack.
Domesticated animals?
Likely to be seen in the wild?
(in counterpoint to INJ)
[INJ] Not domesticated.
[CdM] Yes, and no.
Fictional?
Dickybirds?
Land animal?
[Tuj] Fictional in part.
[Rosie] Not dickybirds.
[Software] Yes. Land animal
Does it begin with P?
To business.
[Tuj] 'Pologies, but no "P" whatsover, in either the beginning, middle, or end.
The Circle of Life?
Ouch.
[Tuj] Not the circle of life.
An animal of which there are both domesticated and wild examples?
[Kim] Only wild or presumed wild.
Does the name of an animal (or several) appear on the card?
[INJ] Yes, the animals are named.
Indigenous to the UK?
"Wild? I was absolutely livid!"
Do they form an heraldic or symbolic group?
[Bigsmith] Not indigenous to the US individually, but togeter, yes, very British.
[INJ] Yes, they form a heraldic or symbolic group.
Lion and Unicorn?
[Software] The Lion and the Unicorn it is. The baton is passed
Bu**er! That means I'll have to think of something. Right, after 30 seconds deep thought here it is:

VEGETABLE with ANIMAL and ABSTRACT connections.

Terry Schiavo?
Sorry, couldn't resist.
Is the vegetable wood?
Smaller than a toaster?
[Raak] Yowzer!
[Raak] Terry? No
[INJ] Wood? Yes.
[CdM] er.. No.
[Tuj] Toaster? Difficult one, probably Yes.
Are the animal connections human?
Is there only one of these?
A board game?
[Raak] Human? Yes.
[Kim] Unique? No.
[Tuj] Boardo? No.
A tool?
Found in a kitchen?
Long and thin?
[INJ] tool? some may say so, but a sensible answer is probably No.
[irach] kitchen? some would say Yes.
[Rosie] phalic? No.
Edible?
Chopsticks?
*wonders about the short fat approximately toaster-sized chopsticks that irach eats with*
[CdM] edible? theoretically, Yes.
[irach] ching-chang-chew? No.
Part of a foodstuff that is not normally eaten? (eg fish bones)
[Rosie] Fishy? No.
A container of some kind?
Specific to a particular culture or country?
[Tuj] Container? No.
[CdM]Specific country/culture? No.
Serves a decorative purpose?
I'm struggling with the edible wood.
Heart of palm?
[INJ] Decorative? No.
[Raak]Swamp cabbage? Had to Google that! No.
Advent calendar?
About the size of a toaster in all three dimensions, two dimensions, or one?
Found in most homes?*
* for a definition of home based on the Western European model
[G III] Chocolatey date thing? No.
[irach] Toaster sized? In one dimension maybe. Yes.
[INJ] Domestic? Yes. (random claps from audience)
Used in the preparation or serving of food?
Is the abstract connection something to do with the arts?
[INJ] Jamie Oliverish? Nah.
[CdM] Arty-farty? No.
Associated with apparel?
[INJ] wear it? No.
Clue?
Is the abstract connection a phrase or saying?
Does it begin with a 'P'?
Sorry Tuj, but we can only wait so long for you.
[Tuj] Clue? OK. This is a give away: almost everyone has used one of these.
[CdM] Abstract? Not a phrase or saying as such, but a familiar term.
[INJ] P? Not in the answer itself. * audience murmurs.*
Paper of some sort?
Toilet paper?
[Chalks] Paper? Yes. *audience claps*
[GIII] Bog roll? No.
Advent Calendar?
ooops - CANCEL THAT
Box of Tissues
Newspaper?
[Chalks] Advent calendar? You wish! And not paper hankies either. No.
[irach] The fourth estate? No.
Paper Towels?
[irach] Towels? No. Hint: it is paper, approximately toaster sized in one dimension.
Is is typically written on, e..g. foolscap paper?
[irach] Written? Not by hand, but Yes. * audience claps * Foolscap? Are you a lawyer?
A Telephone Directory?
A fortune cookie?
[CdM] Directory? The exact words on the Card!!!

Well done and over to you!! I'm glad that its gone because I'm away from a computer for the next 5 days and there would have been a big gap!

That was unexpected
OK. I am going to designate this as ABSTRACT with ANIMAL connections, while acknowledging that many of you might have deemed this ANIMAL with ABSTRACT connections.
Begins with P?
Anubis?
Mythical?
A well-known phrase?
Pinitial? No.
Anubis? No, but *a tiny smattering of applause*
Mythical? No, but *some audience murmuring and consultation of dictionaries*
Well-known phrase? In a sense, yes, although that's not the best way to think of what you are looking for.
Fictional?
Fictional? In part, Yes; in part, No.
extinct?
Extinct? Er. I think the only reasonable answer is No.
Legendary?
Legendary? Yes, but *some audience murmuring and consultation of dictionaries*
A single, named creature?
Single, named creature? Yes. *applause*
An object of worship?
Object of worship? No (except perhaps in the exaggerated metaphorical sense)
An object of fear?
Object of fear? No.
In place of my rather convoluted introduction, it is probably better to describe this simply as ABSTRACT and ANIMAL.
But does it begin with P?
Pinitial? Still No.
Is its existence controversial?
Controversial existence? Not in the slightest. (I confirmed its existence a few days ago, as a matter of fact.)
Does it have a physical existence?
The MerLion?
Connected with a particular country?
[CdM] I'll believe you this time.
The answers to several of these questions differ depending on whether I am focusing on the abstract or animal component of the answer. My answers to date have been primarily directed at the abstract component (although I don't think any of them would be badly misleading when thought of as applying to the animal component as well.* With that in mind

Physical Existence? The abstract component has various physical manifestations (so I could also add MINERAL connections to the definition). As for the animal component, the best answer is probably No, (or perhaps Yes, of a sort), but had the question been phrased slightly differently I could have much more easily just answered Yes.
Connected with a particular country? Not exactly, but *applause*.
Merlion? No.

*Though I have never confirmed the existence of the animal component.
Does the animal represent in any way a particular human?
Particular human? The animal is a particular human, yes. *applause*
Is the human the holder of a certain position or title?
Connected with a particular religion?
Holder of position or title? Not exactly, but *applause*
Religious connection? No.
The Statue of Liberty?
Long shot.
Lady Liberty? Nope.
So is the animal fictional and the abstract nonfictional?
Fictional status of animal and abstract: The animal is non-fictional. The abstract is partly fictional and partly non-fictional.
Something like "Tom Thumb"?
Like Tom Thumb? Not at all. I would call that totally fictional.
Tom Thumb fictional? Perhaps not.
[Software] Ah. Well, that's what I get for taking Wikipedia as the last word on something. But, in any case, I think the answer is No.
{Software] By the way, I love the picture at top right in your link. "Tom Thumb's Waistcoat," it is labeled. But since there is nothing else in the picture to indicate scale, the waistcoat in question might just as easily be too big for Kobe Bryant....
Male?
Male? Yes.
This is proving harder than I expected, so I'll offer a clarification/clue with regard to the mythical/legendary questions. The answer on the card does not refer (in either the abstract or animal sense) to something mythical or legendary in a narrow, literal myth-or-fable sense of those terms. The answer (in both senses) is legendary in the broader celebrated-renowned sense of that term, and possibly even mythical in the very broad sense of that word ("idealized").
Is the human the holder of a particular record or accomplishment?
Holder of record or accomplishment? The human is known for certain accomplishments.
Dead?
Sporting accomplishments?
Dead? Yes.
Sporting? No.
A war leader?
A war leader? Sort of, yes. *applause*
Well, this is starting to get silly.
Did the human die within the last 100 years?
Alive sometime after1908? Yes.
Notorious rather than universally celebrated?
The Unknown Soldier?
Notorious? The human in question is perhaps not universally celebrated, but certainly "celebrated" is a better term than "notorious". The abstract sense is pretty much universally celebrated.
Unknown soldier? Hardly. *some laughter*
Born after 1908?
Born after 1908? The human in question was not born after 1908. The abstract sense cae into being after 1908 though.
Because you will probably have forgotten most of this when you resume this game in a post-Christmas alcoholic haze, here is a review.

The words on the card are sort of a well-known phrase that does not begin with P. The words have both an ANIMAL sense and an ABSTRACT sense. There is no controversy about the existence of either.

The ANIMAL sense is a particular male human, who was born before 1908 and died after 1908. He is known for certain non-sporting accomplishments and was sort of a war leader. He is celebrated rather than notorious, though not universally celebrated. He is legendary in the sense of being celebrated and renowned, and possibly mythical in the sense of being idealized, but he is not legendary or mythical in the more literal senses of those terms. He is not exactly connected to a particular country, but the question earned applause. He is not exactly the holder of a position or title, but that question also earned applause. He has no religious connection. He is not Anubis, the Merlion, Tom Thumb, Lady Liberty, or the Unknown Soldier.

The ABSTRACT sense came into being after 1908, and does have physical (mineral) manifestations. It is partly fictional and partly non-fictional, and it is likewise legendary in the broad senses of the words, but not in the narrow senses. I recently confirmed its existence.
T. E. Lawrence?
T.E. Lawrence? The human is T.E. Lawrence, yes. *sustained applause*. But, though this one is now clearly there for the taking, I cannot declare Raak the winner.
Come on, Raak, get a wriggle on.   ;-)
Lawrence of Arabia?
Lawrence of Arabia is indeed the correct answer. One Aqabaton delivered from the Turks to Raak.
The next is ABSTRACT.
The Riemann ζ-function?
n=∞
Not
Σ
 1/ns
n=1
Cognitive dysfunction?
Could be regarded as a symptom of one.
"Happy New Year"?
Oh, and Happy New Year to all.
Not a happy new year.
A human characteristic?
E.g. numeracy :-)
Not a human characteristic.
An organisation?
Not an organisation.
Anything to do with religion?
According to Wikipedia, no connection with religion.
Christmas?
Not Christmas.
A well-known phrase or saying?
Not a phrase or saying. Well, there's a phrase on the card, of course, but the mystery object is what it refers to, not the words themselves.
Is the mystery object Animal?
No, it's ABSTRACT.
Connection with science or scientific endeavour?
No connection with sciency things.
A human construct?
'cos somebody had to ask it.
Yes, a human construct.
Does the mystery object instil fear?
Any connection with the arts?
[Rosie] (laughter) Does not instil fear.
[INJ] No connection with the arts.
Does the mystery object represent an achievement?
Is this a sporting accolade?
[Rosie] No, but there could be an achievement involved.
[Dujon] Not sporting.
Related to Politics?
[INJ] Not related to politics.
Is it an activity?
[Kim] Not in itself, but activity could be involved.
Does it normally involve more than one person?
[INJ] Generally involves just one person.
Could it be considered enjoyable?
Might or might not be enjoyable.
An attitude or state of mind?
Not an attitude or state of mind.
Scientific/technical connection?
No scientific/technical connection.

I expected this one to be really easy..

Related to humour?
Not related to humour.
Anything to do with employment?
Nothing to do with employment. (The audience devolve into cockroaches and scuttle away between the floorboards.)
Any connection to sleep?
Zzzzzz....
How about a hint?
Seasonal relevance
New Year Resolution?
I resolve to hand the baton over to Chalky!
Have we taken a resolution to terminate old games?
No, I don't think we have.
It's been slowing down recently - but I still look at it and try to contribute at least once a day when I'm able to get online (though I try not to ask successive questions). Maybe we need fewer ABSTRACTs in order to get the thing moving along. After all, it's not as if other games are flying along.
Chalky appears to be fairly abstract at the moment ;o)
I'm sure she's here in spirit.
Absent friends
I don't get the feeling we are going to see Chalky soon.
EEEK!
sorrysorry. Have been away for a few days - had completely forgotten I'd posted that. Thanks for your patience ....

Next one: ANIMAL/MINERAL/VEGETABLE with ABSTRACT connections

I should be around for mornings and evenings for a few days so pile 'em up ....
Life, the Universe and Everything?
Animal is human?
One step at a time ...
Is it manufactured?
Is it a place or geographical location?
Is it you?
Is it Animal AND Vegetable AND Mineral in one instance?
[INJ] Life etc? NO
[Softers] Animal a Human Beeng? NO
[Raak] Manufactured? mmmm ... erm ... sometimes.
[INJ] Place or Location? NO
[Kim] Moi? NON :-)
[Phil] AVM in one instance? Good question - YES, it can be, but then, can, as likely, not be.
Objects that bear a miracluous resemblance to Jesus/Mother Teresa/Tony Blair/etc.?
[Raak] Incredulous Looky-likes? NO - but I suppose one could discern a resemblance given a vivid imagination :)
Would the animal be mythical?
foody?
Sorry for delay
[Software] Mythical? NO
[CdM] foody-y? YES!
A dish?
Food, not ceramic
[INJ] A dish? NO - not a dish
Some sort of convenience snack?
Mmm, salted crisps cooked in lard....
Pork Scratchings?
[Raak] Salty snack? Yes - could be
[Software] Pig scabs? Yes - could be

[INJ] I have cast off my pedant's hat to amend my reply to your recent question: Yes - could be
Normally eaten in a pub?
[Rosie] Pub Grub? Yes - could be
Is the occasion on which it is eaten significant?
Cost under a quid? (£1 Sterling, whatever that's worth today?)
[Raak] Eaten on significant occasion? Yes - could be
[Bigsmith] Low Cost? Yes - could be
Food in general?
A generic description of a meal?
(like 'a square meal' or 'breakfast')
A Tasty Snack?
[Raak] Food in general? YES! *audience cheers because the Animal/Vegetable/Mineral boxes have been ticked*
[INJ] Generic description of a meal? Not exactly 'generic' - but you're heading in the right direction..
[Softers] Tasty Snack? Yes - could be
A snack?
The "Mediterranean Diet"?
[Rosie] A snack? Yes - could be
[Raak] The Mediterranean Diet? Yes - could be

It may be more useful if I change the definition to ANIMAL/MINERAL/VEGETABLE/ABSTRACT [rather than 'with Abstract connections']. We can discuss the rights and wrongs of such a move when this has been guessed :)
Is it to do with dieting in general?
Consumed at a single sitting?
(I know - 'Yes - could be')
[Kim] Dieting? NO *audience chuckles*
[INJ] Single sitting? Funny you should say that/ Yes - it could well be consumed at a single sitting :-)
Overeating?
Munchies?
[Raak] Overeating? Not exactly - but * the audience applauds your attempt to explore the Abstract nature of this little puzzle*
[irach] Munchies? well - having the Munchies certainly links neatly with the words on the card.
Brunch?
Does the card include the word "traditional"?
{Raak] Brunch? Yes - could be
[Dujon] The card does NOT include the word 'traditional'
Cocktail party?
Does it have to do with the enjoyment of good food, but not necessarily to excess?
Who ate all the pies?
[irach] Cocktail party? Yes - could be
[Kim] Non - excessive enjoyment of good food? Yes - could be
[Software] Who Ate The Pies? No - but *audience applauds another attempt to explore the Abstract element*

[Aside to Softers - Are you in Jersey or Guernsey? My memory fails me]
Eating in general?
[Raak] Eating in general? The AotC certainly suggests eating in general *< mode:clue > however, it isn't an action < /clue >*
A square meal?
[Chalky] Guernsey? Wash your mouth out!
[Software] A square meal? Yes - it could include one of those
What I (you? someone?) ate last night?
Entertaining in general?
[CdM] What we ate last night? Yes - it could include this
[Kim] Entertaining in general? Remember - The AotC is not an action. However, it IS entertaining :) <<<<< points to another clue
Finger foods?
A TV Dinner?
Food groups, nutrition triangles, or some such thing?
[irach] Finger foods? Yes - it could include these
[Sierra Mike] TV Dinner? Yes - it could include this
[CdM] Food groups, nutrition triangles, or such-like? OK - it could include these 'though such dour terminology sits uneasily with the AotC.

Hint: It may be helpful to approach this puzzle from the ABSTRACT angle as it's clear that the A/V/M part is 'food'.
Cookery programmes?
Junk food?
[Raak] Cookery progs? NO
[IruleOK] Junk? NO
Related to any grading system, e.g. Michelin stars?
A banquet?
[Raak] Michelins? NON
[Rosie] Banquet? NO

The negative replies only indicate that the guesses are not the Answer on the Card. How can something so tangible as food become an Abstract?
Fictional?
*applauds Raak*
[Raak] Fictional? Ooh - good question. YES - but I reply with some hesitation.
A work of fiction containing embedded recipes?
"Like Water for Chocolate", etc.
[Raak] fiction - embedded? NO
Food for Thought?
[Softers] Food for Thought? NO - but you and Raak are moving in the right direction.

Summary: The Animal/Vegetable/Mineral part is FOOD [any food in any guise]. The Abstract part originates from a work of fiction - but many things do! There is a key question that hasn't been asked yet. Oh - and it IS a well-known phrase or saying.
The Food of the Gods?
Does it begin with one of the letters A-O or Q-Z (inclusive)?
[Rosie] The Food of the Gods? NO - but *audience applauds with gusto!*
[CdM] At last! Not P? YES :)
The Staff of Life?
[Raak] The Staff of Life? Not the AotC, NO.

My response to Kim's question may provide a clue to the 'key question'
A Bun Fight?
getting desperate
[Softers] A Bun Fight? NO :)
Iron Chef?
The food of love / An aphrodisiac?
sneaking in two related guesses for the price of one.
Clarification please
AotC????????
[Raak] Iron Chef? [Who is this person?] NO
[CdM] Aphrodis/Lovin'food? NO
[Sierra Mike] Answer on the Card [as per the original ISIHAC game :)

There is still a key question that should bridge the gap between 'originates from a work of fiction' and the answer. There is an intermediate level. Please keep asking Abstract-type questions and forget about guessing random food-related phrases.
Supping with The Devil?
Use a long spoon, they say.
tum te tum te tum
[Rosie] Suppin with Devil? NO
Is the work of fiction (primarily) a book
i.e. best known as a book rather than say, the film of a book
Was the phrase coined in the 20th century?
[INJ] Book/Film? Good question. Originally a BOOK - which is very well-known by a very well-known author. The book has been adapted [I use the term deliberately] to make a FILM - which is well-known in a different way. The AotC comes from the FILM.
[Graham III] Coined in C20? Absolutely YES - the second half of the century.
*hints that the Book has been mentioned in 'Ex Libri Bardus'*
Wuthering Heights
In my own defense I Googled it before I asked.
AOTC Attack of the Clones (Star Wars Episode Two)
AOTC Australian Overseas Telecommunications Corporation
AotC Ark of the Covenant (gaming)
AOTC Ahead of the Curve
AotC Aspect of the Cheetah (gaming, World of Warcraft)
AOTC Associated Offices Technical Committee (UK)
AOTC Ahead of Time Crew (band)
AOTC Autodesk Official Training Courseware
A.O.T.C. - Association of Orthopaedic Technologists California
AOTC - Amarillo Obedience Training Club
AotC Army of the Cumberland
AOTC Atlantic OSHA Training Center
AOTC Administrative Office of the Trial Court
I also swept back in the game itself, though obviously not far enough.
The Naked Lunch?
Eats, Shoots and Leaves?
la la lala la la lala
[INJ] The Naked Lunch? NO
[Kim] Eats Stuff? NO *audience sighs and seeks alternative entertainment*
I might well have missed something or other in this rather drawn out seeking: Given that - is this (at least) something like 'Manna from Heaven' ?
[Duj] Manna from Heaven? Yes - it could be - but it's not the AotC
*attempting to entertain the audience*
In addition to the BOOK and the FILM there is also a STAGE production.
Food of the Gods?
[Softers] Food of the Gods? I refer the honourable gentleman to my previous reply to Rosie. ^^^^

...and while you're up there - you may spot all the clues I've been giving. [Where's Projoy when you need him?]
food, glorious food?
Damn! How did I miss that?
Answer, Glorious Answer!
At last dear CdM - the very Words on the Card *audience applauds, cheers and generally goes wild*

The SONG from the FILM and the STAGE production which is an adaptation of the BOOK. A well-known phrase all about FOOD which is very entertaining.
Thanks for letting me off the hook.
[INJ] shame on you :)

* hands over a stuffed baguette to CdM*
[Chalky] Please miss, can I have another?
[CdM] um ... only if I can guess yours :)
All right. This is ABSTRACT with ANIMAL and MINERAL connections.
Is the answer an Abstract Noun?
Abstract noun? No. The answer is a noun phrase that refers to something abstract.
A saying?
A Place?
A human construction?
Mineral metal?
Fictional?
A saying? No.
A place? No
Human construction? Yes.
Metal? No.
Fictional? Yes.
Would this abstractness be . . . well . . . revelationary?
revelationary? I'm really not sure I understand the question. But I can say that it would be useful to learn what kind of abstraction this is. Also, some claim that this abstraction is something some claim to be very revelatory or revelationary or something.
A book?
Book? No.
Anything to do with the internets?
Does it begin with P?
Internetty? No.
P-begun? No.
Science Fictiony?
Sciffy? No.
Mineral stone?
Mineral stone? Yes.
Related to the arts?
Arty? Yes, for a reasonably broad definition of "arts".
A statue?
Statue? No. (abstract, remember)
A pillar of some kind?
A monument?
Pillar? No. (abstract, remember)
Monument? No. (abstract, remember)
Between a Rock and a Hard Place?
Is the animal connection human?
Hard rock? No.
Human animal? Yes.
Is it a painting?
A specific human?
e.g. The Iron Chancellor
Specific human? Yes, but be careful how you interpret that answer.
Err....is it a painting?
Oops
Repainting? No. (abstract, remember)
The Theory of Evolution?
Talking about an evolution? No.
Related to a craft?
Crafty? No.
The Man in the Moon?
Mr. Moonlight? No.
Is it a title (e.g president of blahland)?
Religiousy, faithy ?
Is the human a single named real person
(Now, how many questions is that?)
Lady? No.
Madonna? No.
Single named real person? Yes, yes, yes and no.
Perhaps I should punctuate that less ambiguously as: yes; yes; yes and no.
A fictionalised representation based on a real person?
A character in literature?
Fictionalised representation based on real person? Yes.
Based on a novel? No.
Political?
You say you'll change the constitution? No.
Is it associated wih a specific country?
Know where land? No.
I should qualify that last answer. It is probably associated with a particular country but I don't think those associations are particularly relevant or useful.
Give us a clue
A little help
It was getting lonely in this game without you; I thought you were all leaving. I've already peppered clues throughout my last few answers, being for the benefit of you all. Really, I thought you were all getting better at these, but now I don't think you are going to work it out for another fifteen years.
John Bull?
Is 2024 significant?
Some connection with popular beat combo The Beatles?
John, Paul, George and Ringo
Lucy in the Sky With Diamonds?
Such a lovely audience
John Bull? Er, no.
Is 2024 significant? I dunno, Projoy. Will you still be sending me a valentine?
Beatly? The audience would applaud this preternatural leap of deductive logic, but they are all too distracted by something shiny.
LitSwD? Yes! Phil gets the psychedelic baton.
A hint of lurking, but I think I did ask a question earlier.

Let us proceed with ANIMAL

The obvious:
Human?
[Dujon] Human? YES
Male?
[Rosie] Male? YES
A male human. That reduces the chances so:
Is this a male human who lives or lived?
[Dujon] Extant or extinct? YES
Alive?
[Rosie] Alive? NO
Was he alive some time in the 20th century?
[Raak] Alive during 20th century? YES
A political figure?
[Rosie] Political figure? NO
Your answer to Rosie's and Raak's questions does indeed raise other buts and ifs:
Was this man a scientist?
[Dujon] A scientist? NO
A writer?
Alive in the year 2001?
[Software] A writer? NO
[CdM] Alive in 2001? NO
A celebrity?
[Software] A celebrity? Hmmmm....if you mean "a famous person" then YES. But if you mean someone who seeks fame then NO.
A performer of any kind?
Alive in 1900?
[Rosie] Performer? NO
[GIII] Alive in 1900? NO
Famous largely for a single thing (is a single event rather than a whole career)?
[CdM] Famous for a single event? NO
A novelist or playwright (either)?
[Rosie] Novelist/Playwright? Neither
Someone who became accidentally famous?
[Software] Became famous accidentally? Tricky...probably YES *some interest from an intelligent audience*
Someone who was naturally reclusive?
Is there a sporting connection?
An academic?
Corpuschristitrimble.
[GIII] Naturally reclusive? I think I'll go for YES, although there could be some debate on "naturally".
[CdM] Sporting? NO
[Rosie] Academic? NO
A songwriter?
A Nobel Laureate?
[Rosie] A songwriter? NO
[Dujon] A Nobel Laureate? NO
A public servant?
[Rosie] Public servant? NO
An actor?
[GIII] An actor? NO
Some who makes things?
[Rosie] Makes things? NO
Did he live to more than fifty years old?
[CdM] Lived > 50yrs? NO
A soldier?
Were cyanide and an apple involved in this man's death?
[Rosie] A soldier? NO
[Dujon] Cyanide and an apple? NO

I'm tempted to give a clue, but I don't think it's needed just yet.

Did he give his name to something known by people of all ages?
[Rosie] Gave his name to something? NO
Eddie "the Eagle" Edwards?
grasping at straws
Notorious?
[Software] The Eagle? NO (no sporting connection)
[CdM] Notorious? YES *hearty applause*
Did he disappear?
A serial killer?
Criminal?
[GIII] Disappear? NO
[CdM] Serial Killer? YES *Even heartier applause*
[Projoy] Criminal? YES
British?
Hannibal the Cannibal?
[GIII] British? NO
[irach] Hannibal? NO
Did this man 'operate' from a shack somewhere in the U.S. of A.?
Mack the Knife?
[Dujon] Various questions asked, but I'm guessing that what you want to know is that the person in question is from the USA.
[Rosie] Mack the Knife? NO, it's a real person, as previously established.
The Boston Strangler?
[Software] Boston Strangler? NO
This shouldn't really take long, now that we've established that it's a real American serial killer, who lived in died in under 50 years, some time between 1901 and 2000.
A curious aside: no-one was ever arrested, charged or convicted of the "Boston Strangler" murders, and criminal theorists now believe that more than one person was involved.
Thanks Phil. That narrows it down to a hundred or so.
Fried?
That should narrow it down considerably.
Son of Sam?
Aka David Berkowitz
[IS,P!] Fried? If you mean did he fry his victims, then NO. If you mean was he executed on the electric chair, then also NO.
[INJ] Son of Sam? NO
Died of natural causes?
[Phil] Bollocks. I was sure it was Ted Bundy.
[IS,P!] Natural causes? NO
Was this 'gentleman's' fate (read death) brought about by a fellow prison inmate?
[Dujon] Done in by a fellow lag? YES *Intense applause*
Jeffrey Dahmer?
who I looked up last night on google, and have since been regretting ever reading about.
[Projoy] J. Dahmer? CORRECT! I thought that would go quicker, as he was the first serial killer that sprung to my mind. Not a terribly nice chap, but I do find the US police's attitude to their inept, racist, homophobic officers rather disgraceful and distasteful. Anyway, I hand over a baton made of nothing ghastly, thankfully.
So, Jeffrey Dahmer, then. Not exactly a name on everyone's lips. What proportion of the people in this country have ever 'eard of the bugger? The square root of a mouse's ear'ole, at a generous estimate. What on earth is the point of all this? There are better things to do than ferret around websites looking for the name, amongs hundreds, of American serial killers. The answer should be in one's head, if the spirit of the original game is to be followed. This game is a waste of time.
Yes but
As often happens, I find myself broadly in agreement with Rosie’s viewpoint, though not with his way of expressing it or conclusion. I lose interest in this game the moment it becomes evident that I’m going to have to start searching the web for the answer. I know others take the view that doing so is not unreasonable given the fact that this is an online game, so I won’t stop playing. However, if I get in again, I won’t select answers that I wouldn’t expect a good proportion of participants to know about.
Having said all that, I had heard of Jeffrey Dahmer, although it was only passive knowledge and I doubt if I would ever have dragged the name up without googling.
Over to Projoy
[INJ/Rosie] I apologise. I thought Jeffrey Dahmer was as well known as, say, Peter Sutcliffe, Myra Hindley, Harold Shipman et al. I didn't expect anyone to need to search the web to find the answer. It appears that I know a dangerously disproportionate amount about serial killers, and I did not intend that one to be so hard. My thought process was "Umm...what to do? I think I'll make it simple by just doing a person. Who shall I do? How about someone infamous rather than famous. Oh, I know...Jeffrey Dahmer." I even had a mental image of his photo in my head. Soz!
[Phil] You are obviously the person to have on one's pub quiz team - or are you the one who sets them?
Magnanimity
(Phil) A generous apology. The thing is that it is very frustrating, having scratched one's head throughout over what the answer could be, to find that you could never have got it in the first place. It's not as if I lack general knowledge, or was born, er, yesterday. On with the show, then.
Hm.
Well, I certainly had heard of Jeffrey Dahmer. I only resorted to google to get the fact about his being killed by another prisoner (which I didn't know). I certainly think of him as sufficiently infamous to be on the tip of people's tongues.

That said, I'm one of those who's happy to google and isn't disappointed to discover the answer was something I couldn't have guessed. For then I learn something new I did not know before and my life is just that bit brighter... and sometimes I still get to win the round despite only pretending to have known all along about the obscure answer. :-)

Anyway, my turn. This is something players may or may not have in mind already. ABSTRACT
Murder? ;-)
[Software] Both, actually - I write a quiz every week for the pub, so I tend to have a scant knowledge of a wide range of not terribly useful subjects.
Spring?
[Phil] And when dey met, it wuz... NO
[Rosie] Grass is riz? NO
To do with endings?
[Raak] Terminates here? NO
Homophobia?
Just a thought.
[Dujon] Filthy Prancing Shirtlifters? NO
A phrase or saying?
Connected with the arts?
[Phil] No apology required - my comment read as more critical than I intended. I was trying to agree with Rosie's general point rather than criticising your choice of subject, which may well have met my criteria for reasonableness. Casting my mind back, some of my subjects were probably not justifiable by those criteria anyway.
[Software] Linguistic trope? NO
[INJ] Artful? NO (only very tangentially and unhelpfully)
Scientific?
I know we keep having the same discussions over and over again in the morniverse. It may be one of its defining features. Still, this one is a more than a bit tiresome, because the discussion really is identical each time. Someone (usually Rosie, to be honest) complains that the chosen subject was unsuitable because they hadn't heard of it, and they conjecture that most others have not heard of it either. Someone else (often me, to be honest :-) ) observes that there is no requirement for this game to follow the "spirit of the original game", because this game is on the internets, where we have search engines. Can we just agree to disagree on this one, and accept that people have different standards for what makes a reasonable/good subject?

I'd add two points. First, I think Rosie may have actually misjudged Dahmer's notoriety. I certainly knew of him, and I suspect the majority here have heard of him as well (which probably says something good about Rosie and bad about the rest of us, come to think of it). Second, this is an international community, so I don't think the trivia of "this country" should be privileged: in the global scheme of things, I expect that Dahmer is much better known than Sutcliffe, Shipman or Hindley.
Specific to a single culture?
[CdM] Point taken - and I think my lack of knowledge about Dahmer probably reflects on me (I do tend to avoid that sort of story). That said; to me, googling to get the answer feels like cheating.
A human concept?
I'd never heard of him but I did Google-up 5 US serial killers wiped out in jail. I do, however, suspect that Shipman and Hindley are much better known this side of the pond.
[CdM] Scientific? IN BROAD TERMS
[INJ] Specific to a single culture? NO
[Software] A human concept? YES *some discontented muttering from epistemologists*
Mathematical?
[INJ] To be clear, if something can't be guessed with good questioning and a little googling, then I too would judge it a bad subject. I gave up on my experiment of using randomly generated topics from Wikipedia because they too often failed that test (an Estonian province comes to mind...).
[Software] Well, for some definitions of "this side" and "pond", yes. Very possibly not for my current definitions of those terms. Which was my point.
[CdM] Numbery? NO
Learning?
Could we please cease to comment on the previous challenge? Thanks.
Connectivity?
[Dujon] Learning? NO *a ripple of interest in the audience*
[Rosie] Connectivity? NO
Medical?
[Chalky] Medical? KIND OF *a couple of claps from the audience*
An idea?
[SW] An idea? YES, a sort of idea.
Related somehow to the discussions raised by the previous topic?
Sorry Dujon!
[Biggsy] Related to the Internet vs. Rosie's general knowledge, and which is better debate? Thankfully, NO.
Hm. Rosie's General Knowledge and The Internet. They're both rather marvellous bases for games... but which is better? There's only one way to find out!
Something to do with mental processes?
[Rosie] Mental processes? YES! *applause*
Would this have a direct relationship to the lore of the Australian Aborigine?
Risk aversion?
[Dujon] Dreamtime? NO
[Rosie] Risk aversion? NO
Is the answer a term for the analysis of certain mental processes?
A Freudian slip?
Memory?
[Rosie] Term for Analysis? NO
[irach] Saying one thing but meaning a mother? NO
[Phil] Memory? YES! But that's not the whole answer *muchos applausos*
Genetic memory?
[Dujon] Twisted to fit? NO
Nostalgia?
Projoy, you know perfectly well that my stockings are always seamless or straight. ;-)
[Dujon] Nostalgia? CLOSE! *"ooooh" from audience, and collective intake of breath, causing momentary decompression and fainting spells*
Long-term memory?
[Phil] Long-term? NO a couple of applaus.
Collective memory?
[Software] Collective? NO.
Folk memory?
[CdM] Recollections of The Seekers? NO
Is this a one-word answer?
[Chalky] Monolexical? NO. The word "memory" is on the card with one other word + an article.
A Recovered Memory?
Distant memory?
...Should have read "A Distant Memory?
A false memory
IIRC
[Rosie] A recovered memory? NOT QUITE, but you're practically treading on its tail now.
[irach] Distant memory? NO.
[Software] A false memory? YES! That is the exact answer I started with on the card... or at least... I think it was.
You know, I could have sworn I put a line under that last move.
I find myself winning again. That's a bummer, now I'll have to think of something. Wait there, I'll be back in a jiffy.
[Projoy] I was awake all last night trying to remember the proper word for memory loss...I ended up with insomnia...
I am obviously completely out of kilter with you lot, having never heard of the phrase 'false memory'...
;-)
[Chalky] Don't worry, you're in kilter with me...I'd never heard of it before either. Actually, you might want to worry, on reflection.
[Phil] Not even in the phrase "false memory syndrome" (a frequently occuring concept in crime stories!)
I'm fairly sure I've heard of false memory....fairly sure....
I knew it at one time - or did I?
[Projoy] No. Not until I looked it up - I don't read much any more, alas :-(
Got it!
Abstract with Animal, Vegetable and Mineral connections.
"An Iron hand in a velvet glove"?
A religious icon of some sort or other?
Software, you really must realize that this is a family friendly site and that the word 'vegetable' should never have any less prominence than the words 'meat' and 'three'. I bet you hate Brussels sprouts, cabbage and cauliflower too. ;-)
Animal human?
(Duj) And so do I. I'd rather chew on a baby toad.
This game?
[Irach] Saw? NO
[Duj] Iconic? NO
[Rosie] Manly? YES
[Phil] Morniverse? NO
An invention?
Related to athletic pursuits?
[Rosie] I love vegies, Brussels Sprouts in particular.
[Rosie] Genius? NOish
[Duj] Humping? NO
An activity?
IT-related?
Including software.
[INJ] moving? NO
[Rosie] Me related? NO - audience mermers
Someone involved in the theoritcal construction of what we now know as a computer?
[Duj] Virtual Babbage? NO.
Does the animal lend its name to this?
Related to the Arts?
(defined as widely as you like)
Does what some animals do lend its name to this?
Does it begin with a P?
** Back from London conference **
[Rosie] Animal cracker? NO
[Duj] Beastly habits? In a loose kind of way, YES
[ISP] P? NO, not a one.
Is this a physical process?
[Rosie] A process? NO
[ISP] a slight update, there is actually a word beginning with P in the phrase
Is it a single specific mineral?
And my previous question as well please - (Arty?)
[INJ] Arty? NO; Specific mineral? NO
Would this be a mariner's term?
[Duj] A term? YES! but not a mariners
specific to a profession or trade?
[INJ] Trade or Profession oriented? Well, in a way, YES!
Would this be a verancular expression - such as 'taking the piss'?
[Duj] Mickey? NO. Hint: This is a 3 word phrase very much in the news at present.
Pigs might swim?
The Credit Crunch
Someone had to say it
[INJ] Cash shortage? NO. Not the words on the card but on the right track.
It's terribly, terribly quiet in here, Software. Perhaps all are awaiting the answer to my last?
[Duj] Swine fever? NO. [I've been on holiday :o)]
Popeye Eats Spinach?
This one was 'set' on 24th March - 7 flippin weeks ago!
[Softers] Bearing the above in mind - is your clue/hint still valid?
Is it related to the world financial situation?
[Chalks] Bluto? NO! (Welcome back, Chalky. Yes, it is still valid)
[INJ] Money, money, money? YES!
To do with MPs' expenses?
Simply gotta be.
sub-prime mortgages?
[Rosie] I think this clue pre-dates the breaking of that scandal.
[Rosie] Parliamentary rip-offs? NO. INJ has it in a nutshell, this game has been like the Mouse Trap.
[INJ] Toxic debt? NO. much less specific to the current times
Is the word "recession" on the card?
[Projoy]Lack of business confidence? NO.
To do with a healthy economy?
[Projoy] Boyancy? YES! actually can cut both ways but essentially correct
Inflation?
(it probably says something about my age that I associate inflation with economic health)
[Projoy] Bulging cost? YES Remember 3 words on the card !! have we made this a private game? ;o)
Any reference to bubbles?
Retail Price Index?
The housing boom?
Ding!

Passes the baton over to Chalks. Nice to see you back and in fine form!

[Softers] Thanks mate :-) Delighted and all that.
However, is this a poisoned chalice/baton I be picking up? I really don't want to set a new one unless I know for sure that all interested parties are going to play nicely and in a regular manner. [In otherwords: I'm not sure if I can sustain a chairpersonship for 9+ weeks - which is what you had to do]
Patience is a virtue ...
or so it's oft said. Just dive in the deep end and let it flow. I'm sure some people will play.
Oka-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-ay. I shall keep it simple

A N I M A L
Alive?
[Projoy] Alive? YES
Human?
[Graham III] Human? YES
Man?
An entertainer?
Promises to play nicely.
British?
That's m'girl :o)
[Kim] Man? YES
[Rosie] Entertainer? YES
[Software] British? YES
Does he work mainly on television?
[Raak] Television? YES
Involved in panel games?
6 consecutive YES's must be near a record.
[Rosie] Panel gamer? YES
7 yes's!
On "Have I Got News For You"?
Does he speak fluent Khosa?
[Raak] HIGNFY? At some point - YES
[CdM] Fluent Khosa [Xhosa?] That's two questions. Please re-submit your question and play nicely from here on in.

:)
Has he been chairman of HIGNFY?
very well -- Does he speak?
And, yes, Xhosa seems to be the much more common spelling, though both are in use
keeping it simple
[Rosie] Chairman of HIGNFY? NO
[CdM] Does he speak? YES
A comedian?
(CdM) But can you speak it without causing yourself grave injury? If so, you should have no problem with Machynlleth.
[Rosie] A comedian? YES - amongst other things
A chat show host?
Paul Merton?
Stephen Fry?
He does everything else, so why shouldn't he be the answer to this as well?
Richard E Grant?
Alistair McGowan?
Begins with a P?
"...all interested parties are going to play nicely and in a regular manner..." check
keeping it very simple
INJ is correct!
So I don't have to reply to all the other attempts. Even yours, Tuj :)

It gives me enormous oodles of delicious pleasure to hand the baton over to a deserving winner - ImNotJohn
That's more like it
Has the blessed Mr F never been a guest chairman of HIGNFY? Seems unlikely.
Anyway, the next one is Mineral
FeS2?
Because it begins with P
[Rosie] I can make a passably good attempt at Macheelinneth. Remember, I am half-Welsh. :-)
[CdM] Fool's gold? - NO
A manufactured object?
[Raak] Manufactured? - YES
Mineral = metal?
Well done Chalky! It must be your female wiles that can encourage such a swift result ;o)
A portable device?
(CdM) Nice one. :-) I believe you, BTW.
Rock?
[INJ - Unlikely but true. In this forum, I would never post a reply without checking the facts first -- you are all way too canny :)
Here is a Wiki quote: "In April 2003, three-time guest panellist Stephen Fry announced that he was boycotting the show following the sacking of Angus Deayton. Fry described Deayton's disposal as "greasy, miserable, British and pathetic"."]
[Software] Metallic? - NO
[Rosie] Portable? - NO some chuckles in the audience
[Chalky] - Rocky? - YES [Re SF - Actually, now you remind me, I do vaguely remember that.]
A portaloo?
hmmm
[Raak] Portable, partly metallic structure with no rock in it? - NO
A tunnel?
(Chalky) Fry was right, even if Deayton is not everybody's cup of tea.
Related to fire but not necessarily fired?
Artistic?
[Rosie] Tunnel? - NO
[Dujon] Flambé? - NO
[CdM] Artistic? - NO (some murmurs in the audience)
Found in the UK?
[Software] UK-located? - NO
Is this a specific individual object?
[Raak] Specific individual object? - YES
The Great Wall of China?
The Colluseum?
100% rock?
[Rosie] Mah Jong setup? - NO
[Software] Colosseum? - NO
[CdM] The rock, the whole rock and nothing but the rock? - YES (technically I don't know that, but don't worry)
Is it a work of sculpture?
Does it have a specific purpose?
Rock of Gibralta?
A rather large carving?
homing in
[Raak] Sculpture? - YES
[CdM] Specific purpose? - It may have had, but I don't know it
[Chalky] Herculean Pillar? - NO
[Dujon] Large Carving? - YES (Applause)
The Sphinx?
The riddle is solved
We have a winner! The Sphinx it is.

The baton is passed inscrutably to Software.

Oh, no. Not me again! Hope it doesn't take 6 weeks this time!
Let me think ...

Ah, I know!

Abstract with Animal, Vegetable and Mineral connections.

Animal connection human?
The sign that swings outside Phil's pub?
Connected with the arts?
[Rosie] Human? - YES
[Duj] Hostelry? - NO
[IMJ} Arty-Farty? - YES
Theatrical?
Musical?
Pictorial?
Narrative?
Topical?
Human connection a single individual?
[CdM] Luvvies? - YES
[Rosie] Bandy? - NO
[Raak] Talky? - NO (well, maybe a bit)
[Duj] Newsey? - YES (in the UK at least)
[INJ] Loner? - YES
On television?
Is The Answer the title of a play?
[Projoy] Play - Not a play exactly but YESish
[Raak] TV? -YES
Does the name of the loner appear as part or all of the title?
The Fall and Rise of Reginald Perrin?
[CdM] see below -
[Rosie] Boing! Spot on!

Discretely hands the baton over to Rosie!

[Rosie] Good luck putting that baton back together. :-)
(CdM) That's TNT for you.

This one is MINERAL, sort of. Should be fairly easy.

Mineral = stone?
Tangible?
(Softers) - Stone? - No, not as we recognise it.
(CdM) - Tangible - *audience hilarity* I wouldn't try.
Lava?
Salt?
Raak - Not lava.
Sierra Mike - Salty? Ha-Harrr! Not loikely, me dearie.
Related to nuclear fission?
Dujon - NO, not fission.
Is it deep underground?
Extraterrestrial?
Raak - NO, nowhere on the Tube.
(Softers) - YES, most certainly. *audience applause*
Pluto?
(Raak) - NO, not little Pluto.
Related to the sun?
(INJ) - Sun-related? Just about, but indirectly.
Within the solar system?
(Raak) - NO, not within the solar system.
An extra-solar planet?
(Raak) - NO, not an extra-solar planet.
An expansion of some kind?
Without the solar system?
A star, or collection of stars?
Inter-stellar dust clouds?
(Dujon) - *cruel laughter from know-alls in audience* - Not a bit of it.
(CdM) - YES, not within city limits.
(INJ) - YES, in a way. (to one of your two questions, you naughty boy).
(Software) - Space fog? - NO.
A neutron star?
(Raak)- NO, not a neutron star, but *audience applause*
A black hole?
The event horizon?
A White Dwarf?
[Rosie] No, just 1 question, to be followed up, depending on the answer.
(INJ) NO, far too big :-).
(Software) V bad luck, but don't stand too close to it because it's RAAK's BLACK HOLE, if you see what I mean. Awesome deductive powers, sir. Have a newly-repaired baton.

That was a bit quick. Next time it'll be a particular steam engine. *evil grin*

ANIMAL.
Human?
Yes, human.
Male?
Living?
Fictional?
Male? Could be.
Living? When it exists, it is living.
Fictional? Can be.
Someone defined by their job?
Jobsworth? No.
Juvenile as opposed to adult?
Could be either.
Communicates by speaking?
Is this person known by a figurative reference?
Someone defined by their relationship to other people?
[Bigsmith] Could speak, but not relevant.
[Rosie] No figurative reference.
[INJ] To other people? No.
Someone noted for an achievement?
Does the Animal occupy a titular position?
[Rosie] Not an achievement.
[Software] Not entitled.
Everyone seems to be assuming that this is a single person.
A dwarf?
Not a dwarf.
A gathering for a particular event?
A group of people dedicated to a cause (e.g. a club)?
[Rosie] *applause!* Yes, a gathering for an event.
[Dujon] Supporting a tiddlywinks team? No.
A demonstration?
[Projoy] more applause! Not a demonstration.
A flash mob?
An audience?
[Software] Quite the opposite, for...
[CdM] A flash mob it is. A sudden crowd of naked unicyclists appear and hand you their batons.
That was unexpected. OK, MINERAL
Metallic (mainly or wholly)?
Metallic? Largely, yes.
Man-made?
Man-made? Yes.
An individual thing?
Individual thing? Not sure what you mean. The answer on the card is a single named item, but there are many of them in existence. Or, to put it another way, the first word on the card is an indefinite article.
Small, i.e. pocketable?
An electrical implement?
Pocketable? No.
Electrical? Yes.
An expression of a collection?
Expression of a collection? No. A single named item, as noted above.
High-tech?
High-tech? There are probably high-tech incarnations of this, but the answer has to be no.
A domestic item?
Domestic? Yes
From the pre-electronics age, e.g. electric kettle?
An electric iron?
Pre-electronic? Yes.
Iron? No.
A gardening tool?
Gardening? No.
Curling iron?
A coil of some kind?
A kitchen appliance?
Curling iron? No.
A coil? It contains a coil, yes.
Kitchen appliance? Yes.
A timer?
Used in food or drink preparation?
Does it begin with K?
Lurking
Electric hot plate?
A toaster?
A toaster is the correct answer! Sadly, no one asked the traditional size question. *hands Raak a baton, scarcely warm on one side and blackened and charred on the other*
Oh, did I forget it was on? Never mind, the blackened bits are the best!

ANIMAL with VEGETABLE and ABSTRACT connections.

Animal human?
Human? Yes.
currently alive?
Can be alive or dead.
I suspect people will begin this one with assumptions that will take a long time to overcome.
Schrödinger as role reversal?
Er, what? No.
A single named individual?
Not a single named individual.
Connected with the arts?
A population?
(Raak) If Schrödinger rather than his cat had been in the box it would be intrinsically impossible to know whether he was alive or dead, thus meeting one of the requirements. Just being a bit flippant.
Is this a person referred to in a common description (e.g. 'carrot top')?
[irach] Not arty.
[Dujon] Not a type of person.
A part of a person?
[INJ] *applause!* Yes! A part of a person.
Cauliflower Ear?
Shameless lurker's guess. Hope it's wrong
A gender-specific feature?
Although I actually reckon Chalky's right - it's what I'd thought of, but I was waiting my turn.
Figurative reference?
[Chalky] Your wish is granted. Not a cauliflower ear.
[INJ] Yes, gender-specific.
[Rosie] Yes, figurative.
A bushy beard?
[INJ] Not a bushy beard.
Adam's apple?
Assuming male.
[Rosie] Yes, the Adam's apple. One fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil handed over.
Wahay. Well done Rosie.
(Chalky) Thanks.

Now I've got to do bit of thinking - thinks - Ah, yes - It's ABSTRACT, with ANIMAL connections.
Nothing whatsoever to do with steam engines.

Animal human?
Welsh Language?
Anything to do with the weather?
Artistic connections?
A wolf in sheep's clothing?
Softers - YES, human.
(Chalky) Nage.
(Raak) NO, not weather-related.
(INJ) NO artistic connections.
(irach) NO disguised ferocity.
Is the human element male?
(irach) - Could be either sex.
A stereotype of some sort?
(Dujon) Douse the barbie and I'll tell you, mate.:-) Not a stereotype.
An expression?
(Softers) - NO, not an expression.
Related to emotions?
Fictional?
(INJ) Emotions are only very occasionally associated with this, so short answer, NO.
(Raak) - Fictional? - Can be, but basically NO.
A particular type of human being?
An action?
(Software) - NO, no particular type.
(INJ) - NO, not an action.
I have an idea
(Dujon) - Forget it; it's not that.
Specific to a particular culture?
A type of behaviour?
(INJ) - Culture-specific? - *some audience murmurs* - NO, not really.
(Software) - NO, not a type of behaviour.
Begins with a P?
(Tuj) Pinitial? - Sorry, NO.

As this seems to be a little slow I'll say that the Words on the Card are the indefinite article plus one other, and that the answer is exceedingly commonplace.

A Place?
(Chalky) - NO, not a place.
More than one human involved?
Is there a visible component?
(Software) - YES, more than one human.
(INJ) - Visible? - Straightforward answer is NO, though in some circumstances there may be.
To do with the radio?
Sporting connection?
(Raak) - Nothing to do with the radio (or television).
(CdM) - Play up, Wanderers? - NO.
A queue?
(Softers) - NO, not a queue.
A human interaction?
(INJ) - Human interaction? NO, nothing so complicated.
A thought?
Is there a technological connection?
(Softers) - A thought? - NO.
(INJ) - Nothing to do with technology.
Associated with a particular part of the anatomy?
You've got dirty minds, all of you.
(CdM) - To do with any of your bits, rude or otherwise? - Mmm, can be, but not normally.
Is it in the Morniverse?
Connected with language?
(Softers) - This is almost entirely absent from the Morniverse.
(INJ) - Connected with language? - NO.
Common sense?
(CdM) - That which "is almost entirely absent from the Morniverse"? - NO.
A number of people grouped together for a common purpose?
(INJ) - Purposeful gathering? - NO.

Is it time for the gentlest of hints?

A round?
It feels as if someone just needs to ask the right question and we'll home in quickly, but I'm struggling now.
(INJ) - What's yours? - NO, not this time.
Everyone is associated with/acquires/posseses The Answer.
Personal contact?
(Software) - Face-to-face? - NO.
An ego?
(Dujon) - An ego - NO, nothing so abstruse.
Sense of humour?
(Software) - NO, not a sense of humour.
As this is so slow I'll say that the answer is prosaic, and not a characteristic.
A soul?
(Phil) - NO, nothing so nebulous.
a type of utterance?
(INJ) - NO, not any type of utterance or any other type of action.
I've checked back for any possibly misleading answers I may have given but there aren't any. Please, someone, ask the right question. Any further hint on my part would probably enable someone to get the answer almost immediately.
When you say "everyone is associated with/acquires/possesses The Answer", does "everyone" include the dead?
Is it studied?
(CdM) YES - this includes the dead but not the very, very long dead in most cultures.
(Graham III) - Studied? YES, but the answer itself is not a study.
A name?
(Phil) - YES, a name. Getting very warm. *audience stubs its fags out and returns*
A surname?
Does the answer relate to an autopsy?
Sorry, Mr Belshaw, too late because THE WINNER IS MR JONES OF LEICESTER! A surname it is. Well done, Phil; carry on.
Bit of a lurker's victory, but it came from very careful analysis. "almost entirely absent from the Morniverse" was the biggest indicator.

So, next up is ABSTRACT with animal and vegetable connections

Drunkenness? ...with all due respects...
[Rosie] How very dare you! NO, not drunkenness :-)
The tale of "Jack and the Beanstalk"?
[irach] Fee fie fo fum? NO
Animal = human?
[Rosie] Nice one. I'm now trying to think of how many surnames do show up in the Morniverse. Off the top of my head I can think of 3.5.
Anything to do with pubs?
(CdM) Surnames - ImNotJohn, PaulWay, Simons Mith possibly? Not Herr Bratsche, despite appearances.
[CdM] Human association? YES
[Rosie] To do with pubs? NO
Artistic connections?
[INJ] Arty? NO
Begins with a P?
[Tuj] P? NO
A tool?
A feature of the natural world?
Specific vegetable?
[Rosie] That was my list (PW=0.5), together with parslow.com.
Culturally specific?
[surnames] Do you want to add another 20% for JLE - or is that just getting silly?
[Dujon] A tool? NO
[Rosie] Feature of the natural world? NO
[CdM] Specific vegetable? YES
[INJ] Culturally specific? I think that's a YES
Is/are the human(s) real rather than fictional?
[CdM] Real humans? YES
Connected with food?
And then there was the contibutor whose real name was Terence Ulysses Anorak.
[INJ] Food-related? NO
Let's not forget Mr Wild Pants or Suzy Creamcheese
A phrase or saying?
(CdM) Yes, I'd forgotten the landlord.
[Rosie] Phrase or saying? Inasmuch as the words on the card are well-known, it's a phrase, but not in the sense that I think you meant. Therefore, NO.
A figurative meaning?
Single real human?
[INJ] It's quite a coincidence, when you think about it, that we have both the gentleman you mention and Terence Ulysses Jacket here in the morniverse.
[Rosie] Figurative? NO
[CdM] Single real human? NO
Is this a group of humans who are linked in some way?
[Chalky] Linked group of humans? YES
Any sporting connection?
[INJ] Sporting? YES *applause*
The Ashes?
Yes, I know I went last, but I won't be able to guess again until tomorrow morning.
Team spirit?
[Software] Team Spirit? I like it, but NO
[INJ] The Ashes? I was planning on insisting on "The Ashes Series", but I have lots to do tomorrow, so I'll say YES! Congrats!!
I pass on to ImNotJohn an urn containing the ashes of a baton...
Ah, right - better get thinking.
Here we go then: This one is ANIMAL with Abstract connections
Human?
[CdM] Human? - NO
Figurative reference to some beast?
[Rosie] Figurative reference to some beast? - NO
Has the animal been processed?
[Phil} Spam, spam, spam? - NO
Is the animal used as a symbol?
Is tha animal a mammal?
[Raak] Symbolic? - YESish - but that may be misleading
[Rosie] - mammal? - NO
A black swan?
A bird?
A pet?
Sorry - busy weekend
[CdM] Black Swan? - NO
[Rosie] Bird? - YES
[Dujon] A pet? - NO
Is the answer on the card a particular species?
[CdM] A particular species? - YESish - a particular species is named on the card
Is the bird an indicator of something significant?
I think you're closing in on this one
[Rosie] An indicator of something significant? - Not quite the wording I would have used, but YES is the best answer.
A part of a bird?
(I'm thinking of something like 'a white feather' except of course with some species mentioned.)
The miner's canary?
[CdM] drumstick? - NO
[Rosie] early warning system? - NO
Eagle eyed?
Is the answer the title of a "work"
Is it a metaphor?
The bald eagle?
[Software] aquiloptic? - NO
[Phil] A work? - NO
[Glll] Metaphor? - NO (but some audience reaction)
[Dujon] Haliaeetus leucocephalus? - NO
Hens' teeth?
We have a problem
[Software] Hens Teeth? - NO
I'm about to go on holiday and don't know what access I'll have. If I can't get regular connection I'll let someone know.
The last dodo?
(BTW, I can promise you that INJ will have internet connection.)
He's right, you know - and he's right - THE LAST DODO it is.
A moribund baton is passed across.
ANIMAL
Human?
Human? No.
A single animal?
Single animal? Yes
Currently alive?
Currently alive? No.
The second-last dodo?
Is the amimal fictional?
[ImNotJohn] Can you have a second-last dodo? Surely the first-last is the-last. ;-)
My cat, 1990-2004?
Was this animal significant in human affairs?
Seriously this time.
Well, I won't insist on the beginning-with-P wording on the card, so The Penultimate Dodo it is.
*send baton back stamped "Return to Sender"*
I was only joking
I didn't mean that seriously - I lose connection after tomorrow. So here's an easy one. Mineral
Water in some form?
(INJ) - Not Worthing, shurely?
A geological/geographic feature?
A metal?
Naturally occurring?
The Earth?
[Rosie] - Water - NO
[CdM] Natural feature? NO
[Software] Metal? - The answer is metallic, but not a metal
[Glll] Natural - NO
[Raak] Gaia? - NO
The Eiffel Tower?
Phew! That was close.
Tout à fait correcte! La Tour Eiffel est la réponse juste.
A baton in the form of a gallic symbol is passed on
Zut alors! Ze next is ABSTRACT.
Essemtially to do with humans?
[Rosie] Yes, to do with humans.
The Origin of Species?
[Dujon] Ook? No.
Scientific?
A human concept?
Connected with the arts?
[CdM] Not scientific.
[Software] A human concept.
[INJ] Not artistic.
Begins with P?
A human characteristic?
[Tuj] Does not begin with P.
[Rosie] Not a human characteristic.
A phrase or saying?
[Software] Not a phrase or saying.
Single word?
[Tuj] A single word, plus the indefinite article.
A group of people?
[Rosie] Not a group of people.
A thought?
To do with grouping or classification?
[Software] Not a thought.
[Rosie] Nothing to do with grouping or classification.
A 'syndrome'?
[Chalky] Not a syndrome.
Time for a hint?
technology-dependent?
A hint?
[INJ] Not technology-dependent.
[Rosie] Not a hint.
Commonplace?
[CdM] Yes, quite commonplace.
Is there some physical item associated with this?
[Rosie] No particular physical item.
Does this have seasonal relevance?
[THF] Why, yes it does!
The Silly Season?
[Rosie] Not the Silly Season.
Are we currently in the season for this?
[Rosie] We are in precisely the season for this!
hay fever?
A holiday?
[INJ] Not hay fever.
[Software] Yes! A holiday! Have this bucket and spade.
Oh, dear. Not again ...
Raak, thanks - mind my sand castle on the way out, please.

Well, let me think. Ah, I have it! Vegetable and Mineral with Abstract connections.

vegetable = wood?
Timber! - YES.
Mineral = metal?
A manufactured object?
A tool?
[Raak] Metalic? YES
[Rosie] Man made? YES
[IMJ] A Tool? NO (ish)
A Mosquito?
One specific article?
[Duj] Mossie? NO ( er .. where is the ANIMAL in the definition - have you been bitten by one?
[INJ] One item? NO. More than 1.
Found in the house?
[Software] I assumed Dujon was referring to a De Havilland Mosquito.
A drum kit?
[INJ] Domestic? YES (I was not in WWII aeroplane mode at the time of the answer, strangely)
[Rosie] Percussion? NO

I'm going off to chez nous for a short break, so I may not login every day over the next 10 days.

A set of speakers?
Seeing that our highly esteemed Software has buzzed off for a few days I'd like to thank INJ for his clarification of my previous.
not gone yet ;o)
[Duj] Stereo? NO
Smaller than a toaster?
[Rosie] (you taking the piss?) Kitchen appliance sized? - YES & NO
A fixture or fixtures?
Bon soir
[Rosie] Immoblier? NON
A container of some sort?
Associated with domestic drudgery?
[INJ] Bag, man? - NO
[Rosie] Nettoyage? - NON
Anything to do with entertainment?
Is the answer a set (ensemble/collection - take your pick) of objects?
[Rosie] Fun? YES
[INJ] Multi? YES
A toy?
[Rosie] Distraction? - YES
Meccano?
[Rosie] Liverpudlian toys? - NO
Aimed primarily at babies/toddlers/under 5s?
Lego?
Legere, lexi, lectum.
Known by a brand name?
[Rosie] You must have had the original prototype lego made out of wood and metal.
[INJ] Toddlers? - NO (well not entirely as a kind of hint)
[Rosie] Daneplay? - NO
[INJ] Designer? NO
A form of puzzle?
(INJ) Oh, I did. Mahogany with brass inlay. They made things properly in those days.
A board game?
[Rosie] Enigma? - NO
[INJ] Parlour fun? - NO
An indoors activity?
[Rosie] On the carpet? - NO
Any musical connections?
[INJ] Melodic - NO
A game in the garden?
Is it a competitive activity?
Are there winners & losers.
BTW can I just confirm. This is found in the house, but it is not an indoors activity, is that correct?
[Rosie] External domestic fun? - YES (but not exclusively)
[INJ] Competitive? - NO (well, not normally and not normally inside)
Clarification and hint
The answer is not an activity but contains items that are used therewith.
Does the activity involve throwing?
Slightly diverted from the true path by your answer to my question:
Q. Found in the house?
A. Domestic? - YES
Can you please clarify.
[IN
[INJ] Chuck? - NO
In answer to your other query, the subject will be found in the house but not necessarily used there.
INJ ( not a guess!)
I think Rosie and I need some lurker help here.
We're looking for a man-made toy made of wood and metal, with some (as yet unexplored) abstract connection. It consists of a number of parts and is normally used outside although it may be found inside (when it's put away?). It is both larger and smaller than a toaster - don't know if that's the part vs whole thing or just that it comes in different sizes. It is not normally a competitive game and does not involve throwing. It is not known by a brand name. It is not a board game or meccano or lego or a puzzle or a container or a fixture or fitting or a domestic appliance or a tool (slightly hesitant NO to that one), nor does it have musical connections.
There you are - should be easy now.
Any thing significant I missed?
Does the abstract involve a show/display/exhibition?
Does the activity normally involve more than one person?
Ah, yes, one omission. It is not primarily aimed at young children (the under 5-s say). The response was: 'NO (well not entirely as a kind of hint)'.
[Duj] Beauty parade? - YES well, sometimes
[INJ] Solo? - the correct answer could be YES and/or NO
remember we are looking for mineral and vegetable with only abstract connections
Does it have a sporting connection?
Are there more than 2 parts/elements to this?
[G III] Sporty? - NO
[INJ] More than a pair? - NO
Garden furniture?
Does it require inflation?
Are there are other elements involved apart from wood and metal?
[Rosie] On the patio? - NO
[G III] Puff? - NO
[INJ] Construction> - YES (sometimes)
Has wheels?
[irach] Mobility? - NO
stilts?
Pogo stick?
[INJ] High handed? - NO
[irach] Tigger? - NO. (remember earlier it was decided that the answer consisted of more than one part.)
Is it associated with a specific culture?
- to be precise - 2 parts.
[INJ] Culture link? - NO. (yes 2)
Primarily seasonal use?
[irach] Seasonal? - YES!
Used in winter?
[irach] Winter? - NO.
Summer?
Owt to do wi' bonfires and parkin?
[G III] Summer - YES
[Duj] Arcane winter celebrations? - NO
Does it contain water?
[Pro] Wet? - YES
Does it float?
[Pro] Floater? - YES and maybe NO (we have established 2 parts)
Bucket and Spade? (the old kind)
Hurrah!!
A Bucket and Spade it is!

Gladly hands over the stick of rock to Projoy!

Gosh, that's very retro. Makes me think of those daft wooden tubs of ice-cream you can get... *looks around lounge for inspiration* Ah. OK. Let's try this:

MOSTLY MINERAL (+ some of the other two + abstract connections)
An ornamental geological specimen?
[Raak] OGS? NO, not really.
A room furnishing?
[irach] Room furnishing? NO
Oh, I just realised what occasioned those last two questions. The lounge angle is very unlikely to help.
Would this relate to archaeology?
A manufactured object?
[Dujon] Old Fossils? NO
[Rosie] Manufactured? YEEEES, for some values of "manufactured", anyway. Definitely more than not.
A sculpture?
Made of stone?
Metalic?
INJ - Statuesque? NO
Raak - Stone? YES, mostly
Software - Metallic? Contains metal.
The toaster question
[INJ] Much bigger than said browning apparatus.
Is the metal part a plaque?
[Raak] The metal part?
Concrete?
Does any part of this thing bear an inscription?
A building?
[Software] Probably some concrete involved
[Raak] Inscribed? YES
[INJ] Constructive? YES
In London?
Open to the public?
A memorial?
[Rosie] London? YES
[INJ] Open to the public? YES AND NO
[Softers] Memorial? NO
Built before 1900?
[INJ] Pre-Labour Party? NO
*murmurs of surprise from the audience*
Is it in Trafalgar Square?
[Raak] Trafalgar? NO
Does it have a primarily commercial purpose?
[INJ] Moneyspinning? NO
Is it a tourist attraction?
The Royal Festival Hall?
[Raak] Tourism? There are defensible yes and no answers, I think. If pressed, I would say NOT REALLY.
[INJ] Herbert Morrison Remnant? NO
Do people work inside this building?
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