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AVMA Take 2
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Yes, it's another round of that classic guessing game - Animal, Vegetable, Mineral, Abstract [or any combination thereof]. This effort - '03/'04 should address any queries, but then again, may just serve to confuse and baffle which some might say is the point of the game. Patience, integrity and a decent search engine may be useful ....
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The winner of some competition?
The son and heir?
(Raak) - Not a competition winner.
(Irg) No, that would be impossible. *some discreet sniggers amongst wittier members of the audience*
Eunuchs?
(Bigsmith) "....and Goebbels had no balls at all"? NO, though strictly there is no reason why the subject(s) may not be differently-orchidised.
A child?
(Graham III) - NO, not a child.
Clarification:- My reply to Irouléguy has a temporal significance.
Do you have to be a certain age to be this?
The holder of some kind of record?
(Irouléguy) - Age limits? - YES, in effect, though not in a formal sense.
(Tuj) Not a record-holder.
The oldest man in the world?
[INJ] I was going to ask that a day or so ago, but the animal's not necessarily alive. I asked my previous question to completely rule it out.
A group defined by having experienced/lived through a particular event?
[Tuj] Yes, you're right - it's ruled out for a few reasons (like, not a single specific person) - Scrub that and try this one.
(INJ) (Qu. 1) Not the oldest man in the world. Nothing to do with his age, actually.
(Qu. 2) NO, but an event is involved. *Sort-of approving noises from the audience*
Is the event in the future?
For example, the team to represent GBR in the men's 4x100m sprint relay at the Beijing Olympics.
(Bigsmith) A future event team? NO, the event is basically now but could be in the recent past.
Associated with one particular country?
(Tuj) NO, not associated with one particular country.
Begins with P?
Knew I'd forgotten something.
(Tuj) Perfectly preposterous proposition, pal - er, Not P.
Does the word 'veteran' appear on the card?
(Dujon) The word "veteran" - NO, no old soldiers.
Is the related 'event' to do with family?
Dead man's shoes?
Grasping at straws
(INJ) - Family? Very much so, Gary. *vigorous applause*
(Softers) - The straws got away. Not "Dead man's shoes"
The father of the bride?
[Rosie] Surely you meant 'Very much so, yes; Gary'
*suspects INJ has given it away*

but just in case... A father-in-law?
(INJ) NO, not the bride's father. re "Gary" - you may well be right. :-)
(Irg) Worth the shot, but not him either.
To do with a birth?
(probably just as well - I won't be posting on Thursday or Friday, so I'd better not win this)
A godfather?
(INJ) Fear not; you haven't. It's nothing to do with a birth. Good luck on K2 and see you Saturday.
(Phil) NO, not a godfather.
Defined by relationship(s) with others?
A grandfather?
(Quendalon) NO, not defined by any relationship.
(Irouléguy) Not a grandfather.
Dutch Uncle?
(Software) NO, not a Dutch Uncle.
The head of the family?
(Irouléguy) NO, not the head of the family.
Related to geographical location?
(Quendalon) NO, no geographical connection.

Hint: You're all missing a feature of the answer that has been the subject of two questions and answers.

Is there more than one of these in a family?
Is there one of these in most families?
Having seconds, as no-one else has had a go for a while.
A maiden aunt?
Sperm?
(Irg) Both questions - There could be. Not relevant, really.
(Raak) Not a maiden aunt. (It's male)
(Quendalon) Sperm? NO. A fully-formed male person.
Best man?
YESSSS! Raak is the best man! Speech!
An alarm clock?
[Rosie] Good one, although the audience surely could have given INJ's 'father of the bride' a little encouragement. I'm still confused by the audience reaction to 'son and heir', though.
Unaccustomed as I am...
[CdM] If the happy couple's son was the best man at their wedding...

The next is M I N E R A L.

Metal?
[Raak] Unusual perhaps, but not "not possible"
Art?
And the son & heir of whom was not defined. My best man was the son and heir of the father of the groom for example...
[CdM] Made of metal.
Unique?
One metal only?
(CdM) Raak's explanation of the "son and heir" audience reaction is what I was thinking of, though I agree it's a bit convoluted and overdone.
Begins with P?
[Rosie] I was more confused as to why the answer to "Alive?" was "could be"
[I] Not unique.
[R] One metal? Possibly, perhaps likely, but not useful to know.
[T] P.
Man-made?
[Q] Man-made.
Does it use electricity?
(Tuj) Well, my Dad's best man is dead, as no doubt are Henry VIII's. I could have said "Yes, at the time" but that would have been giving too much away.
Any moving parts?
[Rosie] Not usually electric.
[CdM] Yes, there are moving parts.
When not electric, is it powered by hand or foot?
Larger than a toaster?
[R] When not electric, it is powered by (at least one of) hand or foot. (Murmurings in the audience.) Ok, partly powered.
[I] Not larger than a toaster.
A timepiece?
[Rosie] (the audience almost applaud) Not a timepiece.
Is it a domestic item?
Used in the kitchen?
Scales?
[Raak] I wonder what that sounds like ;)
[R] Npot domestic.
[I] ...hence not used in the kitchen.
[Tuj] Not scales.
[Tuj] The sound of two hands clapping, but not against each other.
BELLOWS . . . whoops, sorry . . . bellows?
Do people own these things?
A tool?
[D] Not bellows.
[R] People own these.
[I] In a general sense, yes. (Is a pencil a tool? Is a kettle a tool? In that sense, this thing is a tool.)
Associated with leisure?
This weekend I was at a 20th anniversary celebration - we had also been at the wedding, where the best man was the son and heir of the groom (he was a widower).
[INJ] Er...yes, associated with leisure.
A compass?
Also, can you answer my first question?
[GIII] Sorry, missed that. Not art, and not a compass.
Anything to do with television?
Can one person, alone, make full use of it for its intended purpose?
[R] Not directly connected with TV.
[Q] More than one person must be involved.
Is it a game?
[Rosie] (the audience grow alert but not yet excited) Not a game.
Is it a toy?
[Phil] Not a toy.
Associated with sport(s)?
[Q] (applause!) Yes, associated with sports.
Associated with a ball game?
A boule?
[I] Not associated with a ball game.
[G] ...not even in French.
Associated with athletics?
a dart?
A starter's pistol?
[Rosie] (cheering) Associated with athletics.
[Software] Not a dart.
[Phil] **BANG** A starter's pistol.
Really? Gosh! I'll try and think of a new one in the morning.....way too "sleepy" right now.
Till now, I'd even forgotten I'd won, that's how "sleepy" I was.

OK, out next AVMA is VEGETABLE

Begins with P?
Unique?
Edible?
[Tuj] P? NO
[Quendalon] Unique? NO
[Irouléguy] Edible? NO - a titter from the audience
Made of wood?
Potable?
[Rosie] Made of wood? Partially
[Dujon] Potable? NO
Something constructed?
A British Rail Sandwich?
surely inedible?
[Irouléguy] Constructed? Not my first choice of word, but YES.
[Software] BR Butty? NO - I wouldn't put too much emphasis on the audience's titter.
Normally found in the home?
Bigger than a washing machine?
Toasters have been way too privileged in this game.
[INJ] Normally found in the home? It can be.
[CdM] Bigger than a washing machine? YES and NO - depends how you measure "bigness"
Main purpose decorative or display?
I take your answer to CdM to mean: greater in at least 1 dimension, but with a lesser volume than a 600mm x 600mm x 900mm toaster.
[INJ] Mainly decorative? Hmmmm... NO
Re: CdM's question: My answer, in this instance, means larger in at least 1 dimension, but lesser in volume than a standard domestic washing machine (approx 900 x 600 x 600mm). By the way, you have a very big toaster!
Broom?
A tool?
CdM may have said washing machine, but the traditions of the game dictate that he must have meant toaster
does it begin with a P?
[INJ] Maybe he said 'washing machine' because if you say 'toaster' to Phil he puts a bag on his head...
[Quendalon] Broom? NO
[INJ] Tool? NO
[IS,P!] Begin with P? Still NO. And can I take the bag off now please?
Is it used in sport?
Part of the structure of a house?
[Chalky] Used in sport? NO
[Rosie] Part of structure of house? NO *a little applause*
Is it significantly longer than it is wide?
[CdM] Length much > width? Not necessarily, but can be.
A crawling board?
[Rosie] Crawling board? NO
Is this designed to protect?
[Dujon] Designed to protect? Partially YES, but not exclusively to protect.
Is it something like ivy, which covers a house and can project but may not be considered decorative?
That was a lot of words!
[Software] Something like ivy? NO
Would it normally contain something?
[Chalky] A container? NO
Easily portable?
[INJ] Easily portable? NO
Some kind of door or entrance?
We know that it is wholly vegetable but only partially made out of wood. So
Is it primarily (say, more than 90%) wood?
[Rosie] Door or entrance? NO
[CdM] > 90% wood? NO
Is the bit that's not wood some form of natural vegetation?
[Chalky Ntural vegetation? Not in its original form. Don't forget that this has been "contructed", although that is not the most ideal word to convey what has happened to the vegetable constituents.
Is it fewer than 10% wood?
[Phil] I just did that to annoy you. :-)
If not "constructed" would "fashioned" or "sculpted" (either) be a more appropriate description?
[CdM] <10% wood? NO (Me? Annoyed? Nonsense! *unclenches teeth*
[Rosie] Fashioned/sculpted? NO. Probably further from ideal than "constructed", in fact.
Essentially an outdoors object?
[Rosie] Outdoors? NO
Does this comprise of wood (combined with something else) which has been shredded/chipped and then moulded?
Is this always 100% vegetable? (no screws, nails, glue, ink...)
[Dujon] Shredded wood combined with something else and moulded? I think that warrants a YES - *relieved applause*
[CdM] Always 100% vegetable? Good question. Further research reveals a trace of mineral that I was previously unaware of, plus some pigment that may be vegetable or mineral. But essentially I'd say YES, at least 99.5% vegetable. *some more applause*
Would the typical morniverser own one?
Wood chipping mulch/dressing?
[CdM] Would a Morniverser own one? Probably not, but possibly.
[Software] Wood chippings? NO
Paper involved?
[INJ] Paper? NO
"Processed wood" eg chipboard?
[Rosie] Processed wood? NO
Is it MDF?
A little summary perhaps...
The answer on the card is almost entirely vegetable (over 99%) with a trace of mineral, and perhaps some animal. Wood makes up between 10 and 90% of it. It is partially, but not exclusively designed to protect, but is not mainly decorative.
Shredded wood combined with something else and moulded got a YES, but it's not perfectly accurate. It also got some applause. Other applause has been for "part of the structure of a house?", although the answer was NO. Also, querying if it was always 100% vegetable received some applause - mainly for being such a good question.
It is larger, in at least one dimension than a washing-machine-sized toaster. It is not "fashioned or sculpted" from wood. Technically-speaking it is constructed, but that is not how I would put it.
...more...
It does not begin with P; is not a tool, broom, container or crawling board. It does not involve paper, and is not a type of processed wood (such as chipboard), not is it wood mulch. The typical Morniverser probably doesn't own one, but might. It is not used in sport, is not an outdoors object.
Also, the non-wood part is not natural vegetation in its original form.
[Kim] MDF? NO
Is this wooden percentage made up mainly of bark?
Thanks for the precis, Phil, but that's not the job of the Chair and should be attended by one of his or her fawning acolytes.
Is it part of the structure of any other thing?
As opposed to, say, a house.
Is the "other" vegetable hay?
A hay stack?
[Dujon] Wooden percentage mainly bark? It can be, but doesn't have to be.
[Quendalon] Part of structure of non-house? NO
[Irouléguy] Hay involved? NO
[Software] A haystack? NO
A log cabin?
[Kim] A log cabin? NO
Do you own one?
[GIII] Do I own one? NO
Could one see this in a pub?
Even if not in your revered establishment, my Lord. (Dujon) Will that do?
Related to animals?
[Rosie] Could it be seen in a pub? YES, but not all pubs.
[Quendalon] Related to animals? NO
A pool table?
[Chalky] A pool table? NO - I think that would be less than 99% vegetable.
A skittle alley?
[Software] Skittle Alley? NO - I think that would be bigger than a washing machine-sized toaster
Correction to previous answer I was only asked if it was bigger than the toaster in at least one dimension, to which I replied YES. No-one has yet established in how many (or indeed which) dimensions the item is bigger than a toaster (or washing machine).
Is it longer than a toaster?
Is it longer than a toaster standing on its end?
[IRG] Longer than a toaster? YES
[INJ] Longer than a toaster on end? YES
Typically painted?
I've got the image of something shaped like a door or a kitchen worktop.
Is the wood from a specific type of tree?
Is this a regular shape or is it a bit wigglyish??
[INJ] Painted? Strictly speaking, NO.
[Quendalon] Specific tree? NO
[Chalky] Regular shape? YES
Is it a cuboid (tall, long, not very thick)?
[IRG] Cuboid? YES, but not as you've defined. Here's a clue, as I'm going on holiday on Saturday for a fortnight. Wide, long and not very tall.
A doormat?
[Software] Doormat? NO *Some encouraged applause*
Typically varnished or similarly treated?
[CdM] Typically varnished? NO (although I did have to do some reading to check)
Are there typically pictures of any kind on it?
[Quendalon] Typically pictures on it? NO
A floor covering of some sort?
[Irouléguy] A floor covering? YES *rapturous applause and whoops of delirious delight from the audience*
Stair carpet
or something like that, such as a hall runner?
[Software] Stair carpet? NO *audience believes they may get to cheer today*
Laminate flooring?
[GIII] Laminate flooring? NO *ooohs and aaahs*
Fitted wood flooring?
[IRG] Fitted wood flooring? NO
May I refer you all back to "Shredded wood combined with something else and moulded got a YES, but it's not perfectly accurate. It also got some applause." I think that's slightly helpful without giving it away. Note also that I have had to do some research in order to answer a couple of questions.
Cork flooring?
[IRG] Cork flooring? NO - the wood ingredient can be bark (which is what cork is), but doesn't have to be. Also, less than 90% of the total comes from wood.
Coconut matting?
Getting desperate
[Software] Coconut matting? NO
OK, here comes a major clue. Things don't always look like what they're made of.
Linoleum?
[Chalky] Vinyl floor? I'm afraid not.
[Cdm} Linoleum? YES, dagnammit, YES!
It's made of powdered wood or bark, linseed oil, canvas or burlap (both of which are vegetable), with some pigments (hence the traces of mineral). And in 13 hours' time I go on holiday for 2 weeks. ttfn!
Well, I stood on the shoulders of giants that time. Excellent subject choice, and a very educational round. After Phil's clue I thought it had to be lino, but I needed to google to check because I realized I had no idea what it was made of. I'll be back later today to set a new clue.
[Phil] Have a good trip!
although I suppose maybe you could argue for a vegetable component as well
This one is ANIMAL and ABSTRACT.
An anarcho-syndicalist?
Making a welcome return.
Is the animal human?
CdM] Well guessed
A metaphorical character?
E.g. Essex Man etc
But does it begin with P...?
Anarcho-syndicalist? No.
Human? No.
Metaphorical? Yes, sort of. Character? No.
A well-known phrase or saying?
In a general sense does the animal part relate to a particular type of animal?
(e.g. cat, dog, cow)
It's a jungle out there
Well-known phrase or saying? I think the best answer is Yes.
Particular type of animal? Yes.
Does the animal display some particular characteristic such as the smile of the Cheshire Cat?
Remember, remember, the 5th of November
Particular characteristic? Yes (interpreting "characteristic" somewhat broadly).
Is the animal a mammal?
Particular gender?
A fish?
Begins with P?
Cat got your tongue? ;)
Is it a sleeping dog?
Interesting constellation of questions
Mammal? No.
Particular gender? No.
A fish? Yes. *applause*
Begins with P? No.
Feline tongue entrapment? No (but my internets were broken for most of the day; sorry)
Sleeping dog? No.
A particular type of fish?
Under African Skies
Particular type of fish? Yes.
A red herring??
A red herring? Yes! One smoked baton passed to Néa.
Oh dear
It was the aproposes that did it.

Now for something MINERAL
Man-made?
metallic?
[Raak] Yes.
[INJ] Yes.
Unique?
[Néa] Are you sure that shouldn't be "apropi"?
[CdM] Yes. And yes. "Apropoi", possibly.
Art?
[GIII] Only in a limited sense of the word.
An architectural construction?
[Raak] Yes.

There is a small amount of VEGETABLE involved as well.
A tin roof?
A particular building?
Is/are metal(s) the only mineral element?
More than 200 years old?
Could you (or I) lift it?
The "wobbly" (or Millennium) bridge?
Kaknästornet?
:-)
You've been inquisitive while I was gone
[Software] Not a tin roof.
[Raak] Yes, a particular building.
[Graham III] There are some other mineral components as well, but again very small proportions.
[CdM] Not more than 200 years old.
[Rosie] You and I could not lift it together.
[INJ] Not the Cake Nose Tower!
In Europe?
A building that is open to the public?
[CdM] Yes.
[INJ] No.
In Sweden?
Less than fifty years old?
[Irouléguy] No.
[CdM] No.

[Irg] Sorry, I missed your previous question - it also isn't the Millennium bridge.
Is it more than 119 years old and less than 122 years old?
[CdM] No, it is not both of those things.
Is it in London?
[Raak] Not in London.
Is it in Italy?
[Kim] Nor in Italy.
Eiffel Tower?
Because [CdM]'s question confused me.
Would the small amount of vegitable be growing on the structure?
Is it a bridge?
[Q] Unless I have also confused myself, Néa's answer rules out the Eiffel Tower. (Her answer is semantically interesting, because it can be parsed in two distinct ways, but only one of them is sensible.)
[Q, CdM] No, it is not the Eiffel Tower. My reply to CdM meant that it is not between 119 and 122 years old.
[Software] There may be vegetables growing on it but that was not what I meant.
Is it less than 122 years old?
Progress at last!
[Irouléguy] Yes, yes it is.
The Forth (railway) Bridge?
Does it perform a specific function?
[Néa] You have missed out CdM's bridge question!
[CdM] Not a bridge.
[Rosie] No.
[Bigsmith] Yes.
Is it in England?
Is it a tower?
[Quendalon] No.
[Graham III] Yes.
Is its specific function to broadcast signals?
[Raak] Yes! (audience starting to prick up their ears)
Is it north of Paris?
Still in use?
Functional rather than decorative?
Not it's getting more difficult
[Irouléguy] Yes.
[INJ] As far as I have been able to tell, the answer is no.
[Rosie] Yes is probably the best answer, but it's not straightforward.
Is it on land?
[Kim] Yes.
Did it collapse in 1991?
A recap:
A mostly metal broadcasting tower in Europe, but not in England, Italy, or Paris, built at least 50 years ago but less than 119, still in use, not open to the public, not the Cake Nose Tower, more southerly than Paris.
The original Radio Luxemburg transmitter?
Raak] More northerly than Paris.
Resisting the temptation to get another question in
[Raak] Probably not still in use.
[Graham III] No, it didn't.
[Irg] Not the original Radio Luxemburg transmitter.
Is it in Scandinavia?
[Raak] No.
Is it in Western Europe?
(i.e. one of Germany, France, Belgium, Luxembourg, Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, The Netherlands and outlying islands)
Being negative today, me
[Graham III] No.
Anything to do with astronomy?
An early warning system?
On an island?
More negativity
[Rosie] No.
[Software] No.
[Quendalon] No.
Is it in a country that used to be in the USSR?
(ie one of Belarus, Ukraine, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia and Russia)
[Irouléguy] Yes!
Is it named after its designer?
cheeky, but...
[Irg] It is indeed.
Is it a hyperboloid structure?
going for the hat-trick...
He knows, really
[Irg] Yes!!
Is it more than 86 years old and less than 89 years old?
It's so tempting...
*rolls eyes (own)*
[CdM] Yes.
[Irouléguy, CdM] Stop grandstanding before I name the bloody thing myself. :-D
Does it share one of its names with an underground station?
CdM, Quendalon] Not grandstanding, but teeing you up - I'm away at the weekend,so for once I don't want to take the baton. This is fun, though...
It's in the CCCP, innit
[Irg] Er. None that I know of, but there are many underground systems with stations whose names I'm ignorant of. Unless you mean its name in English translation, in which case the answer is Yes.
Oh, all right then...
Is it the Shukhov Tower in Moscow?
And about time, too
[CdM] Of course. The hyperboloid baton returned to CdM.
Gah
[Irouléguy] I'm sorry - I didn't remember that it's also called the Shabolovka. Which is of course also the name of a Moscow metro station.
Néa] No apologies necessary. I only learnt that yesterday from reading the Wiki page - and I should have said Metro rather than underground. It just amused me as an MC connection. Good topic!
Credit for the last obviously goes first to Irouléguy.
VEGETABLE and MINERAL. However, I will give an immediate clue that the vegetable element is much more fundamental than the mineral element.
Is the vegetable wood?
I just managed to restrain myself, since I'm on holiday from this weekend for the next 2 weeks.
And the mineral metal?
Does it begin with P?
Unique?
Man-made?
Wood? In part, yes
Metal? No (or to the extent there is any metal involved, it is highly tangential and inessential --even more tangential than the rest of the mineral component).
Begins with P? No.
Unique? Yes.
Man-made? Yes.
Is it more than 100 years old?
More than 100 years old? Both Yes and No are defensible answers.
One clarification. I said Yes to "man-made?", and that is the best answer. But No would also be defensible. There. That's clearer now, right?
Can it be seen from a mile away (without optical aid)?
Clearer? Clear as anything ever is with you, y'bugger. :-)
Is this a monument or other well known structure which was formed, sculpted or roughly shaped within the last 100 years and made out of a substance formed over a hundred years ago which could possibly include vegetable material but is probably made up of various metals (i.e. anything 'heavier' than hydrogen) and which is still extant?
A yes/no answer will suffice.
Can it be seen from a mile away? I am very tempted to say that yes and no are both defensible answers. However, I will say that the answer is No (almost certainly) unless you are talking about a mile away vertically, in which case the answer is Yes.
Is ... extant? Not exactly sure where you were going with that, but the best answer has to be No.
Is it in Europe?
And if you answer "yes and no" I shall weep.
Hampton Court Maze?
In Europe? Yes.
Hampton Court Maze? *The audience gasps collectively and bursts into sustained rapturous applause* No.
A maze somewhere in England?
A maze? Yes.
Somewhere in England? No.
Is the mineral water?
Water? No. For free, I will tell you that the mineral just refers to what is underfoot as part of this maze (that's why I said the vegetable element is much more fundamental). Most of the hard work has been done here; you just need to find out where this particular maze is.
Is this maze in a church or cathedral?
In a church or cathedral? No. (Visible from above, remember.)
In Wales?
Is it in Belgium?
In the grounds of a church or cathedral? No.
In Wales? No.
In Belgium? No.
North of Paris?
North of Paris? No.
In France?
Hellenic, like the hymn?
Hidden textA maze in Greece?
Public Service Announcement: Do not reveal the message in the previous move. Just trust me, ok.
Grecian? No.
In England?
(and GIII asked "in France?")
Oops, and Rosie asked about England. How about, In Eastern Europe (i.e. the old Eastern Bloc)?
You are winding your way in towards the center
In France? No. (sorry)
In England? Still No.
In Eastern Europe? No.
Made within the last 200 years?
Is it, by any chance, in Italy?
Dear Auntie CdM, I know I shuddent of done, but I cuddent resist clicking the "reveal" button like you tole me not to and now my sides av split. Wat can I do? Yours etc. Worried of Whitechapel.
Within last 200 years? Yes and No are both defensible. (See 100 years, above.)
In Italy? No.
Dear Worried. You can listen to me say, "I told you so".
The maze at Schönbrunn Palace?
The maze at Schönbrunn Palace? Yes!

"The Maze at Schönbrunn was laid out between 1698 and 1740... During the 19th century the Maze was gradually abandoned until in 1892 the last remaining hedges were felled. In autumn 1998 a new maze extending over 1.715 m with a viewing platform at its centre was laid out taking the historical model into account where possible."

*leaves the baton at the center for Raak to find*
By the way, I very nearly chose Hampton Court Maze, deciding only at the last minute to be a bit less Anglocentric. Had I stuck with that, Rosie's guess would have been one of the most impressive we have seen in the game to date.
(CdM) V kind! Unfortunately I know of no other mazes.
Left, left, right, right, straight on, over, under, back three squares, up a ladder, half-twist, strile, left, right, flamethrower.

The next is MINERAL (primarily) with an ANIMAL connection.

Man-made?
Does it comprise of more than one mineral?
is it a tool?
[Rosie] Man-made.
[Inkspot] Very likely more than one mineral.
[Software] Not a tool.
Is the mineral predominantly wood?
Doh! Sorry, is the material predominantly metal?
I don't know what's the matter with me these days. I must be getting old.
[Kim] Not predominantly metal.
Decorative?
other mineral is natural (as opposed to man-made)?
[CdM] Yes, one could say that it is decorative.
[Software] Natural, yes; in a state of nature, no.
Is the material mostly stone?
[I] Yes, mostly stone.
But is it art?
[S] Yes, it could be considered to be art.
Is it associated with one part of the world?
[I] It is associated with one part of the world.
Does it decorate the exterior of a building?
Unique?
The Sphinx?
Bigger than a phone box?
[Rosie] Does not decorate the exterior of a building.
[CdM] Unique.
[Software] Not the Sphinx.
[Projoy] Definitely bigger than a phone box.
Is the animal connection that it is manmade?
Is it in Europe?
[G III] It is manmade, but there is a more specific animal connection.
[I] It is in Europe.
A statue or sculpture?
[CdM] Not a statue or sculpture.
The bear pits of Berne?
[I] *Gasp of horror* "Not -- not the Dreaded Bear Pits of Berne!!!" No.
The Bullring, Brum? :o)
Is it a building?
Is the connected animal human?
[S] Not the Bullring.
[G III] It's a building.
[K] The animal is human.
Is the surname of the human one of the words on the card?
Is the building pre 1900?
[Kim] The human's surname is not on the card.
[Inkspot] It is pre-1900.
Is it north of Paris?
Is this going to become my signature question?
Was it built by an ancient culture?
In Eastern Europe (i.e. the old Eastern bloc)
(this is going to be my signature question)
Is it in England?
[I] After closely examining Google Maps, this is not north of Paris.
[G III] Not ancient.
[P] Not in Eastern Europe.
[R] Not in England.
In Austria?
[Software] a ripple of near-applause Not in Austria.
Switzerland?
[Kim] Not in Switzerland.
Germany?
[G III] Germany? Ja wohl!
A castle?
Scloss Neuschwanstein? The animal connection being the Schwan?
Cathedral Church of Our Lady, Munich?
[Néa] Applause!
[Projoy] Boos!
[irach] Cheering! Neuschwanstein it is. The animal connection I had in mind was Ludwig II.
Rats, I nearly just guessed that outright last night.
Okay….. This one is “ABSTRACT, WITH AN ANIMAL CONNECTION”
A work of art?
[Raak] Not a work of art.
The smile of the Cheshire cat?
[Rosie] No smile. No cat, Cheshire, or otherwise.
Is the animal in question human?
[Kim] Yes, the animal element is human.
A piece of music?
[Inkspot] Not a piece of music.
Does the name of the human appear in the answer?
[Rosie] Yes. The name of the person is in the answer.
Is it a unit of measurement?
[Inkspot] Not a unit of measurement.
Anything to do with the scientific world?
{Rosie] No scientific world connection.
Does this encompass art?
e.g. the [name of] school or style.
[Dujon] No, doesn't encompass art per se, except that the person named in the answer has been the subject of some works of art.
Royalty? (any country)
[Rosie] The person in question was not royalty, but did associate with royalty.
Was the person European?
[Irouléguy] The most pertinent answer is yes, the person was European.
Was the human a military person?
[Dujon] The person was a warrior, yes.
Beowulf?
Was the human alive before 1800?
Civis Romanum erat?
[CdM] Not Beowulf.
[Kim] If the person actually lived, it was before 1800 AD.
[Iroulëguy] No Civus Romanum erat.
A character from a fairy tale?
Male?
{Inkspot] Not acharacter from a "fairy tale".
[Nea] Yes, male.
Is is a character of myth or legend?
Is he a God?
[Kim] Yes, a caharacter in myth or legend.
[Inkspot] Not a God. A mortal, but with divine connections, nonetheless.
From Celtic myth and/or legend?
[Irouléguy] Not Celtic.
Scandinavian?
[Rosie] Not Scandinavian.
Someone like Rob Roy?
Greek?
[Software] Not Rob Roy.
[Kim] Yes, Greek.
Achilles' heel?
Sword of Damocles?
[Graham III] Not Sword of Damocles.
[Iroulëguy] ACHILLES' HEEL is it! Take it away.
WOO-HOO! I've cheered so much I feel like a Trojan -
Hidden texthoarse
. OK, our next is ABSTRACT with ANIMAL and VEGETABLE connections.
...also involving MINERAL.
Any Biblical connection?
irach] Any Biblical connection? No
Is the animal connection larger than a humanly constructed toaster?
Vegetable connection trees?
CdM] Is the animal connection larger than a humanly constructed toaster? True pedantry offers a number of possible answers, but the useful answer is yes. Rosie] Vegetable connection trees? Noak.
Is the human construction (larger than a toaster) a building?
Software] Is the human construction (larger than a toaster) a building? Not a building, and it's not a human construction.
More precisely, it's not a physical construction, or a physical anything. 'Bigger than a toaster' refers to the animal connection, not the thing itself.
Is it something like 'on the horns of a dilema'?
Software] Is it something like 'on the horns of a dilema'? It's not entirely unlike, but it's nowhere close.
Is the answer a phrase, proverb etc?
Rosie] Is the answer a phrase, proverb etc? *applause, cheering, etc* Yes!
Is the animal connection human?
Is the phrase a kind of warning?
CdM] Is the animal connection human? Yes
Rosie] Is the phrase a kind of warning? No
A white elephant?
Though I struggle with the mineral.
Is the answer a proverb (pace Rosie)?
Software - A white elephant? No - the mineral is implied in the answer, but not named. And don't forget the vegetable.
Kim - Is the answer a proverb (pace Rosie)? Barking up the wrong tree.
Is the vegetaale a fruit?
Is it the Jolly Green Giant?
Inkspot - Is the vegetable a fruit? *applause mixed with laughter from the audience* Yes
Kim - Is it the Jolly Green Giant? No no no
The apple of one's eye?
(Irg) Kim wishes me peace.
Rosie] The apple of one's eye? No
Or he's trying to drink at the same speed as you...
Is the fruit a commonplace edible item?
(Irg) No chance, then. :-)
Rosie] Is the fruit a commonplace edible item? Yes
Is the fruit a citrus?
The Big Apple?
CdM] Is the fruit a citrus? The answer's not a lemon
irach] The Big Apple? NYet
The Garden of Eden?
Is the phrase in question also the title of a work of lliterature
Rosie] The Garden of Eden? Adam fine question - but no
irach] Is the phrase in question also the title of a work of literature? No
So angry I could crush a grape?
Is the answer the title of an artistic work?
Inkspot] So angry I could crush a grape? Ire think not
Kim] Is the answer the title of an artistic work? No
Is the fruit a berry?
The fruit of our labours?
Kim] Is the fruit a berry? *laughter, followed by earnest audience discussion* Probably, yes
Software - The fruit of our labours? No
A berry by name, but not by strict definition?
A blackberry?
** motions towards ear **
Is it green and goes up and down in a lift? A gooseberry?
Graham III] A berry by name, but not by strict definition? No - other way round (probably)
Software - A blackberry? No
Inkspot} Is it green and goes up and down in a lift? A gooseberry? Possibly, unlikely, and no.
Is it a berry within the botanical (as opposed to common) meaning of the word?
Kim] Is it a berry within the botanical (as opposed to common) meaning of the word? *applause* Yes (probably)
'Probably' because the exact meaning of the word on the card is ambiguous, but this is the most likely meaning.
Is the human connection one or more actual persons?
The phrase :"A loaf of bread, a jug of wine and thou beside me?"
Kim] Is the human connection one or more actual persons? *much discussion in the audience* If actual=named, then yes.
irach - The phrase :"A loaf of bread, a jug of wine and thou beside me?" And wilderness is paradise, e? no
Are the named persons fictional characters?
Kim] Are the named persons fictional characters? I refer the honourable gentleman to his previous question. Fictional - almost certainly (though I have seen one website that says the opposite).
Is the berry a grape?
Resisting the temptation to ask whether it is "Attack of the killer kumquats"
Graham III] Is the berry a grape? No
I say tomahto and you say tomayto?
Is the human element a collection of individuals (eg, a class, a group, etc)
ImNotJohn] I say tomahto and you say tomayto? *some applause* No, nay
Kim - Is the human element a collection of individuals (eg, a class, a group, etc) No
Yankee Doodle Dandy?
Is the answer a popular food product?
Software - Yankee Doodle Dandy? No sirree
Kim - Is the answer a popular food product? No - a food product is two of the words on the card, but it's not the answer
Heinz Baked Beans?
Graham III - Heinz Baked Beans? No
Is it a jam or marmalade?
irach] Is it a jam or marmalade? No
Is it ice cream?
A fruit milk shake?
Kim] Is it ice cream? Nein (ty), nein
irach - A fruit milk shake? No
Is the food product shown on the card normally sweet-tasting?
Kim] Is the food product shown on the card normally sweet-tasting? *applause* No
Is the berry an olive?
Popeye and Olive Oil?
CdM - Is the berry an olive? *some applause* No
irach - Popeye and Olive Oil? No
Is the fruit pickled?
irach] Is the fruit pickled? *the audience rise as one person, cheering* YES!
Can one find this on the supermarket shelf today?
Software] Can one find this on the supermarket shelf today? One can find products with the same name on supermarket shelves - whether they are exact product referred to is doubtful.
Is it an ethnic food from the East?
Is the answer in the form 'so-and-so's such-and-such'?
irach] Is it an ethnic food from the East? No
ImNotJohn] Is the answer in the form 'so-and-so's such-and-such'? *cries of 'oooh' from the audience* No, but not that far off - in two ways.
Actually, the audience should have applauded part of irach's question.
Does it involve mango?
irach] Does it involve mango? No mag
Does it involve citrus?
Phileas Fogg's gentleman's relish?
irach] Does it involve citrus? No, Mel
Software] Phileas Fogg's gentleman's relish? No

It's Friday, it's five o'clock, it's Crackerjack! time for a summary, I feel

The whole thing takes the form of something described by “a phrase, proverb, etc”, though it is not a proverb. It includes two words describing a food product, and the name(s) of one or more persons, who is/are almost certainly fictional. The human element is not a collection of persons.

The food is derived from a fruit. Although the exact meaning of the word on the card is ambiguous, the fruit in question is almost certainly a berry, botanically speaking. The fruit is not lemon, blackberry, gooseberry, grape, mango, tomato or olive (though the last two got some applause), and it is not normally sweet-tasting. It is a common-place edible item.

The food product is pickled (sale being the mineral implied in the answer). It is not Heinz baked beans, jam or marmalade, ice cream, or a fruit milk shake. You can find food products with the same name on supermarket shelves, though they are probably not the exact product referred to in the words on the card. It is not an ethnic food from the East, though part of that question garnered applause.

The phrase is not a kind of warning, or the title of a literary or artistic work. [Note – the phrase may have been used as a title, but that’s not where you know it from] The phrase is not: the apple of one’s eye; so angry I could crush a grape; the fruit of our labours; a loaf of bread, a jug of wine, and thou beside me; Popeye and Olive Oil; Yankee Doodle Dandy. The phrase does not take the form 'so-and-so's such-and-such', but that is close in two distinct ways.

This game is missing one of its usual players, who might well have got this by now, or at least posed a particularly pertinent question.
It is associated with Indian food?
A pound of....?
Peter piper's pickled pepper?
... Or rather, the entire phrase "Peter Piper picked a peck of pickled pepper" ?
Begin with the letter P?
Capers?
Well, we've a worthy winner! The complete Peter Piper phrase it is - one pepper-flavoured baton handed over to irach.
The next is ABSTRACT WITH MINERAL AND PROBABLE VEGETABLE CONNECTIONS `
Is this a phrase?
[Software] Yes, a phrase.
Does this phrase relate to extraterrestial bodies - or body?
[Dujon] Totally terrestrial.
Is the mineral a liquid?
[irach] Not a liquid.
Is the mineral reference rock?
Old as the hills?
Shut up at the back there.
is the probable vegetable wood?
Is it culturally specific to English?
[Dujon] Not a rock.
[Rosie} Not "old as the hills".
[Iroulëguy] The probable vegetable is not wood
[ImNotJohn] the phrase was coined in English, but is not culturally specific.
Is the mineral combustible?
[Rosie] The mineral is non-combustible.
Could the phrase be construed as a "saying"?
[Software} Not a "saying", but a frequently used term.
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