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AVMA Take 2
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Yes, it's another round of that classic guessing game - Animal, Vegetable, Mineral, Abstract [or any combination thereof]. This effort - '03/'04 should address any queries, but then again, may just serve to confuse and baffle which some might say is the point of the game. Patience, integrity and a decent search engine may be useful ....
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Anything to do with mobile phones?
[Tuj] Mobile phones? NO
Some form of study?
[Rosie] Some form of study? Strictly-speaking, NO, although some study would normally be associated.
Phil - Is this abstract thing something that people would do for a living, say?
Would this be some form of skill?
A legislative activity?
[Chalky] Done for a living? NO - a murmur of appreciation from the audience for an almost useful question
[Dujon] A skill? NO
[Rosie] Legislative activity? NO
Is the vegetable connection paper?
Phil] You missed out my previous question.
[Irouléguy] Huge apologies:
Is the animal human? YES
Is the vegetable connection paper? Partly - some hesitant applause
Is this a form of entertainment?
A recreational activity of some kind?
[Chalky] Entertainment? NO A couple of amused chuckles
[CdM] Recreational activity? Having looked up definitions of "recreation", I fell compelled to say YES, but it might not be what springs to most minds as recreation.
Anything to do with the law?
[Rosie] Law-related? NO
Is writing involved?
Is the animal a character of fiction?
Is the definition of recreation under which you answered YES to one of the previous questions as a result of the second sub-definition within the second definition in Chambers?
That's here.
[CdM] Writing involved? Not necessarily, but it would be normal.
[Kim] Fictional animal? NO
[GIII] Did I mean "a new creation"? NO.
In fact, using the Chambers definition, I would say a definite YES to CdM's earlier question on reacreational activities, rather than my earlier vacillation.
Does an instance of this activity involve more than one human?
[Quendalon] an instance involving more than one human? It can do, but it doesn't have to.
So, the definition is "a pleasant, enjoyable and often refreshing activity done in one's spare time." The answer is therefore clearly

Drinking Beer.

Phil's confusion was understandable, since he typically does not do this in his spare time.
Philately?
Some kind of music making activity?
[CdM] Drinking Beer? NO (remember, it's not done for a living)
[CdM] Philately? NO - considerable applause from the suddenly-revived audience
[Chalky] Music-making? NO
So we are looking at a hobby of some sort, in which through study a level of expertise may be achieved?
Does it involve the accumulation of items over time?
[Bigsmith] A hobby? YES *some applause*
[Bigsmith 2nd half of question] Gaining a level of expertise? I suppose so, but I wouldn't focus on that if I were you.
[GIII] Accumulation of items? YES *vigorous applause*
Are the items made primarily of paper?
Is the wearing of an anorak a requirement for the complete enjoyment of this hobby?
Beermat collecting?
[Raak] Made primarily of paper? After a little extra research, YES, the items accumulated are usually primarily made of paper (carefully-worded answer) - *some applause and a little discussion amongst audience members*
[Chalky] Anorak-wearing? NO - *appreciative laughter*
[GIII] Beermat collecting? NO
Is the focus for collection the items themselves, or some feature (e.g. writing) on the items?
[GIII] Items or writing on them? Strictly speaking the answer should be YES. But as it's Friday, I'll answer that the focus would be on some feature (e.g. writing) on the items. *Some more applause*
Made of papier mâché?
Autograph-hunting?
[Raak] Mashed paper? NO
[Irouléguy] Philography? NO
Cigarette card collecting?
[Phil] Thanks. I was lazily trying to get two questions in at once...!
[GIII] Cartophily? NO *audience is eagerly awaiting a correct guess, although a few think that Irouléguy's second question might be useful*
Flower pressing?
Some form of ticket?
This may violate the specified non-anorakiness.
Is the writing hand-written or printed?
Are the collected items mass-produced?
[GIII] Oshibana? NO
[Rosie] Ticket collecting? NO. On reflection, I think the activity is a bit anoraky, but I don't think it's required.
[Irouléguy] written or printed? Printed
[Quendalon] Mass-produced? YES
Is the collected item entirely vegetable?
This is strongly implied by previous answers, but I wanted to confirm. Also, interestingly (or perhaps not), when I first asked about recreation, I almost said hobby.
Is it made of cardboard?
Sports card collecting?
Top Trumps?
[CdM] Is the collected item entirely vegetable? There may be small traces of mineral, namely printing ink and ingredients in paper, but otherwise YES. (Hobby would have been a much easier question to answer).
[Raak] Made of cardboard? NO
[Quendalon] Sport cards? NO
[Chalky] Top Trumps? NO

[Everyone] As I mentioned earlier. the items accumulated are normally primarily made of paper. The items collected to provide that accumulation are not, but are still almost entirely vegetable. If that doesn't confuse the matter, I don't know what will ;-)
Phillumeny?
Scratch that, we've already established that it doesn't begin with a "P".
[Quendalon] Phillumeny? NO. Nor is it matchbook/matchbox collecting, for that matter.
Are the items collected labels of some sort?
[INJ] hmm - I was going to ask the same question ;-)
... and if the answer is 'YES' ...
[INJ] Labels? NO
Would this item cover a beermat?
You know. Them things.
[Rosie] Big enough to cover a beermat? NO - at least not in my experience or knowledge
Sucrology?
Kind of a shot in the dark. But if it's a game-winner, that'd be pretty sweet.
Do people [who don't indulge themselves] regard this hobby in a .... sort of, derogatory way?
I can't help thinking about your reply to my question "Is this a form of entertainment" and you said NO and the audience actually chuckled.
[Chalky] A disrespected hobby? NO - The couple of people who chuckled were (like me) amused by the thought of someone exhibiting their collection for entertainment purposes. Probably not very helpful chuckles, but chuckles nonetheless.
[Quendalon] Sucrology? YES - Congratulations, it is the collecting of sugar sachets and sugar cube wrappings. The sweet smell of success is yours. The difference between the collected items (mostly not paper) and the accumulated items (mostly paper) is that sucrologists remove the sugar post-collection and pre-accumulation. The UK Sucrologists Club has around 320 members, publishes a quarterly newsletter called "Sweet Thoughts", and offers a link to (amongst others) the Berlin Museum of Sugar.
(Phil) A bit anorakky?? Positively pathetic, certifiable etc etc. I dunno.
Well, that was interesting! Let's move on to the next item:
Animal and/or Vegetable, with Abstract connections
Begins with P?
[Tuj] Starts with P? NO. *amused laughter from the audience*
Something people eat or drink?
[Irouléguy] Edible/potable? NO.
Is it bigger than a toaster?
One of those blocks, often round, found in public urinals?
Well, give me a break, I don't know what they are called. They usually have a (strong) scent and might have disinfectant properties.
Is the animal element human?
[Dujon] "Urinal blocks" is the disappointingly mundane term you're after.
Life?
(Phil) May be disappointingly mundane but intriguingly ambivalent, given the undesirablilty of a blocked urinal.
[Chalky] Bigger than a toaster? Bigger? How do you mean? Area? Thickness? Width? Height? Bulk? Mass? More famous? ;-)
[Dujon] Urinal cake? NO.
[Phil] A human(s)? NO.
[Rosie] Life? NO.
Does it have anything to do with bodily functions?
Is there more than one of these?
Ends with P?
Is there just one animal involved?
Would you be most likely to find one of these in a house?
[Kim] Bodily functions? NO.
[INJ] Unique? NO.
[Raak] Ends with P? NO. *audience laughs*
[Irouléguy] More than just one animal involved? There are several ways to interpret this question; I think the least misleading answer would be YES.
[Tuj] Likely to find one in a house? NO.
Anything to do with food?
Any connection with language?
[Rosie] Related to food? NO, not really.
[INJ] Connection with language? YES. *applause*
Is it an embroidery sample of the alphabet?
[Phil] Embroidery sampler? NO. *muttering from the audience*
Does this involve the whole animal, or just parts of it?
[Irouléguy] Whole animal or just parts? Just parts
Is it a Scrabble tile?
[Tuj] Scrabble tile? NO.
Is lettering involved?
[Phil] Lettering? NO.
Object or objects involved in writing?
Would someone use this in their place of work?
Would you describe this as an illustration?
Are these found throughout the world?
So this is connected to language but the animal element is not human... Wow.
[Rosie] Involved in writing? NO.
[Chalky] Used in a place of work? NO, at least not in any modern workplace.
[Dujon] An illustration? NO, I wouldn't describe it as such, though I suppose an argument could be made.
[CdM] Found throughout the world? Technically YES, although a NO would be less misleading.
[CdM] Fair enough, there's a human connection, but that's not the animal connection specified in the challenge parameters.
Is the animal part leather?
Is this a type of signage?
[G3] Leather? NO.
[Chalky] Signboard? NO.
Is this an object that is best known because it features in a literary work?
[Chalky] Featured in a literary work? NO, not to my knowledge.
Primitive art?
Eg Cave paintings, white horses, men with enormous plonkers etc?
[Rosie] Primitive art? NO. *interested muttering from the audience*
But is it art?
[Tuj] Art? NO.
Graffiti?
[Chalky] Unartistic graffiti? NO.
Did this exist in the past?
[Chalky] Existed in the past? YES! *applause*
Is the animal part feathers?
[Rosie] Feathers? NO.
That was quick. Bones, then?
[Rosie] Bones? NO.
Is the animal part skin?
Is the vegetable element paper ?
[Irouléguy] Skin? NO.
[G3] Paper? NO.
A single unique thing?
[Tuj] Unique? NO. *approving nods*
Fewer than ten?
;)
[Tuj] < 10? NO. :-)
Is this a catch-all description for multiple and variable instances?
[G3] Could you rephrase? I'm not 100% certain I grasp the meaning of the question.
Hieroglyphs?
I possibly should have said "multiple and unique instances". For example, a solution which would require the answer YES would be "Impressionist paintings", or "skyscrapers", a solution which would require the answer NO would perhaps be "Tyres" or "Lenovo T62 Thinkpads". On reflection a crap question.
[G3] Egyptian squiggles? NO.
[G3] Per the "multiple and unique instances" question, it's a good question, but rather ambiguous. I think the thing under discussion falls somewhere in between your two examples.
So... manmade?
Well, we seem to have got a whole heap of nowhere so far!
[Tuj] Manmade? Definitely YES. (Do you need a recap?)
Would you find this in a museum?
Does this always involve the same part of the animal (ie limb, organ)?
[Chalky] In a museum? YES.
[Irouléguy] Same animal component? YES.
Is this a container of some sort?
[Rosie] Something to put other objects into? NO.
Does this involve multiple species?
A totem pole?
[Irouléguy] Multiple species? Collectively YES, individually I DON'T KNOW.
[Chalky] Totem pole? NO.
Something to do with fossils?
[Kim] Fossils? NO.
Are we talking fur/pelt here - or BLOOD!?
..ahem - just trying to inject a touch of drama :-)
[Chalky] Animal fur/hair? YES. (Blood? NO. :-)
A form of apparel?
[Dujon] Garment / accoutrement? NO.
Inca 'talking knots' - quipus/khipus?
[Irouléguy] Quipu? YES! *wild cheers from the audience* You've tied all the clues together and untangled a rather knotty problem. Good job!
Well, I can't claim all the credit - I was in cahoots with the others.

For a change of pace, our next is ABSTRACT with ANIMAL and MINERAL connections.
Begins with S?
[Quendalon] Nice one.
CdM] Begins with S? Sadly not.
Begins with a vowel?
Fictional?
Observable in nature?
Chalky] Begins with a vowel? On
Raak] Fictional? Dr. No
Kim] Observable in nature? *animated buzz in the audience* I'm very glad you asked me that...

I can see a case for answering either way, but I think 'yes' is less misleading
Is it visible or audible?
Is the animal connection human?
CdM] Is it visible or audible? Hmm...insofar as it is 'observable', you would have to say it's visible. Audible, no.
(Quendalon] Is the animal connection human? Yes
Is it a meteorological phenomenon?
Kim] Is it a meteorological phenomenon? No
Related to astronomy?
Quendalon] Brother Sun, Sister Moon? *applause* YES
Is it a constellation?
Kim] Is it a constellation? You cannot be Sirius, man!
Does this change from moment to moment even though retaining its description?
A collection of objects?
Dujon] Does this change from moment to moment even though retaining its description? *cries of 'oooh' and 'aaah' from the audience* In one sense, that's a very good description of it, but it doesn't get you any nearer.
Rosie - A collection of objects? No - this isn't a physical thing or things.
An aura of some sort?
[Iroulé] How do you know that your reply to Duj won't get him any nearer ? ;-)
Is it within the Solar System (understood as everything out to and including the Oort cloud)?
Chalky] An aura of some sort? No
Good point - I suspect it won't get him or anyone else any nearer, then.
Raak] Is it within the Solar System (understood as everything out to and including the Oort cloud)? Bearing in mind my answer to Rosie's question, yes.
anything to do with Astrology?
Does it relate to the movement or path of some celestial object?
Chalky] anything to do with Astrology? Fortunately, no.
ImNotJohn] Does it relate to the movement or path of some celestial object? *applause* YES - though 'relate' isn't perhaps the most appropriate verb.

Some assumptions should perhaps be re-examined.
When Venus is in conjunction with Mars?
Chalky] When Venus is in conjunction with Mars? No, no sexual connotations.
Named after a specific person?
The ecliptic?
An apogee?
Quendalon] Named after a specific person? *some giggling in the audience* For a particular value of 'person', yes.
ImNotJohn - The ecliptic? No
Phil - An apogee? No

A transit of Venus?
The Clarke Orbit?
Currently accepted as scientifically valid/viable/real/true?
ImNotJohn] A transit of Venus? No
Chalky] The Clarke Orbit? Well, I never knew that - a fitting memorial. Thanks, Chalky - that led me into a very pleasant Google. What Wikipedia doesn't say is whether there are other inventions/phenomena named after SF writers - does anyone know of others?
It's not the answer, though.
Quendalon] Currently accepted as scientifically valid/viable/real/true? Correct/accurate/exact/accepted even by flat-earthers and creationists.
The Kirkwood Gaps?
Is the animal connection the "named 'person'" from Quendalon's question?
It has animal and mineral connections, but no vegetable connections, which suggests the earth is not directly involved.
Rosie] The Kirkwood Gaps? No
CdM] Is the animal connection the "named 'person'" from Quendalon's question? Not the main one.
CdM thinking aloud] It has animal and mineral connections, but no vegetable connections, which suggests the earth is not directly involved.
I don't agree - the answer could be 'the equator' or 'the stratosphere', neither of which I would think of as having vegetable connections. This is an abstract, after all - the animal and mineral connections are the physical things without which it wouldn't exist.
The Van Allen belts?
Is the Earth the mineral connection?
A feature of the surface of the earth?
ImNotJohn] The Van Allen belts? No
Quendalon - Is the Earth the mineral connection? *applause* It's the main one, but not the only one.
Rosie - A feature of the surface of the earth? No

Back after the match.
The Trojan points?
Gravity?
Hooray, the "Whoops!" works :-)
Raak - The Trojan points? No
Phil - Gravity? No
Yes, the "Whoops" is a great invention.

To quote CdM, "Again I say, re-examine your assumptions." It's worth re-reading Quendalon's second question, ImNotJohn's first, and Dujon's
Celestial Co-ordinates?
Oppolzer's Canon of Eclipses?
Is this a form of electro-magnetic effect?
Phil - Celestial Co-ordinates? No
Rosie - Oppolzer's Canon of Eclipses? No
Dujon - Is this a form of electro-magnetic effect? No
Is it the Kuiper belt?
Does this involve man-made spacecraft?
Kim] Is it the Kuiper belt? No
Raak] Does this involve man-made spacecraft? No - complete abstract, remember?
Is it the intersection of two or more things?
Is it visible with the naked eye?
A light year?
or ... a parsec?
Going back to my first question - 'relates to the movement or path of a celestial object' (answered YESish) and assuming that your last answer excludes all man-made celestial objects.
Is the anwer the name or description of that path?
Raak] Is it the intersection of two or more things? You could at a pinch define it like that, but it wouldn't be very helpful.
Kim - Is it visible with the naked eye? Bearing in mind the earlier qualification of 'observable', yes.
Chalky - A light year - or ... a parsec? Inside the solar system? However, a modicum of *applause* for these having something in common with the answer.

INJ] Good question, but no (and your assumption is correct)
An Astronomical Unit?
The rising or setting of some astronomical body?
Kepler's laws of planetary motion?
Is it related to navigation?
Raak] An Astronomical Unit? No
Rosie] The rising or setting of some astronomical body? *applause and some cheering* Related to, yes.
Quendalon - Kepler's laws of planetary motion? No
ImNotJohn - Is it related to navigation? No
The man in the moon?
silly guess - I know :-)
The precession of the equinoxes?
Tidal patterns?
Atmospheric refraction?
Chalky]The man in the moon? No - but it would have been a good one ;)
Raak] www - the world-wide wobble? No
Phil] Tidal patterns? No
Rosie - Atmospheric refraction? No

Dawn?
OK - Is this 'man's' [the animal] perception of something that occurs in our universe [abstract] - meaning, does he need something [mineral] in order to 'see' or 'interpret' this thing [which is abstract]?
... a one-word answer will suffice ;-)
Quendalon - Dawn? *some applause* No, but getting warmer...
Chalky] OK - Is this 'man's' [the animal] perception of something that occurs in our universe [abstract] - meaning, does he need something [mineral] in order to 'see' or 'interpret' this thing [which is abstract]? ... a one-word answer will suffice ;-)

No >:)
Related to a shadow?
The Green Flash?
Twilight?
ImNotJohn] The shadow? Noes
Raak - The Green Flash? *Before Googling* No *After Googling Well, there you go - I've never seen one of those.
Rosie - Twilight? *applause* For the same reason as Quendalon - both of those are necessarily contained in the answer.

Daylight Savings Time?
(I know it's not right (named after a person?) but the audience reaction might be helpful...)
A full moon?
St Elmo's Fire?
CdM - Daylight Savings Time? (I know it's not right (named after a person?) but the audience reaction might be helpful...)*the audience shrug their shoulders* No
Dujon - A full moon? *appreciative murmurs in the audience* This is sometimes contained in the answer
Software - St Elmo's Fire? A wonderful Eno song, but not the answer

A summary?
Is it Keith Moon?
The dawn chorus?
Shut up, dickybirds, I'm trying to get to sleep.
Kim] Is it Keith Moon? No, nor Freddy Mercury either ;-)
Rosie] The dawn chorus? Oh don't deceive me, oh never leave me, how could you treat such a poor maiden - no

A summary

You’re looking for an ABSTRACT with MINERAL and ANIMAL connections. The animal connection is human. It is named after a particular person (for a given value of ‘person’). It doesn’t have a physical manifestation, though it is (arguably) observable in nature, and in that sense visible with the naked eye. It is inside the solar system. The closest guesses so far are that it is related to astronomy, related to the movement or path of some celestial object, and related to the rising or setting of some astronomical body. You might want to think about the scope of the word ‘related’. ‘Dawn’, ‘twilight’ and ‘a full moon’ also received some applause. It is also scientifically valid/viable/real/true (though some of these are more applicable than others).

It does not begin with S, or with a vowel. It is not (leaving out guesses ruled out by the above): a meteorological phenomenon; a collection of objects; an aura; anything to do with astrology; the conjunction of Venus and Mars; the ecliptic; an apogee; a transit of Venus; the Clarke orbit; the Kirkwood Gaps; the Van Allen belts; a feature of the Earth’s surface; the Trojan points; gravity; celestial co-ordinates; Oppolzer's Canon of Eclipses; a form of electro-magnetic effect; the Kuiper belt; the intersection of two or more things (well, you could describe it as that, but it wouldn’t be useful); a light-year or a parsec (though these have something in common with the answer); a name or description of the path of a celestial object; an Astronomical Unit; Kepler's laws of planetary motion; related to navigation; the man in the moon; the precession of the equinoxes; tidal patterns; atmospheric refraction; related to a shadow; the Green Flash; Daylight Savings Time; or St Elmo’s Fire.

It is much simpler than most of these. Much, much simpler. You will kick yourselves (you would probably also kick me, for sounding so smug…) Dujon’s definition of “something that changes from moment to moment even though retaining its description” is the closest so far, though my prediction that this wouldn’t be helpful hasn’t been proved wrong yet.
The horizon?
Well, no, not named after anything.
Is the "person" a mythical one?
Is it the Aurora Borealis?
Is it the effect whereby the sun or moon near the horizon appears much larger than when high in the sky?
The moon's measured size is actually less for simple geometrical reasons.
Raak - The horizon? No
Raak - Is the "person" a mythical one? *cheers and applause*YES
Kim - Is it the Aurora Borealis? No
Rosie - Harvest moon? Another great song, but no
Is the mythical figure Greco-Roman?
Would this effect be present if we had no atmosphere?
BTW what I asked about earlier is not a Harvest Moon, which is Something Completely Different and again involves geometry etc.
The tying down of the moons of Jupiter
Sorry for the delay - Bank Holiday weekend, so I slept in.

Quendalon] Is the mythical figure Greco-Roman? No
Rosie] Would this effect be present if we had no atmosphere? Assuming that we were somehow still present, yes.
BTW what I asked about earlier is not a Harvest Moon, which is Something Completely Different and again involves geometry etc. Apologies - I'm not a scientist (which may, now I come to think of it, be relevant).
CdM] The tying down of the moons of Jupiter? Hush, child oblig
Is the mythical figure Judeo-Christian?
Does this involve some kind of catastrophe?
Quendalon - Is the mythical figure Judeo-Christian? No
Rosie - Does this involve some kind of catastrophe? No
Thursday?
Yesterday?
Another song.
Raak - Thursday? *the audience rise to their feet as one person, cheering deafeningly* ALMOST!
Rosie - Yesterday? Possibly the answer, but not when you posted it.

Mate in five, at most.
Wednesday?
One down, one to go. THe winner owes much to Raak.
Friday?
I have asked some questions, so it's not a complete lurk
Rosie] Wednesday? No
One down, one to go. Yes, and as it turns out, no
The winner owes much to Raak. Absolutely!
Phil] Friday? Full of woe - still two to go
Tuesday / Tiw's Day?
Quendalon - Tuesday / Tiw's Day? YES! The baton goes back to Quendalon.
Thank you, thank you. That was a good one!

And now that it's Tuesday, let's start a new round:
ABSTRACT / ANIMAL
Fictional?
[Raak] Fictional? YES, though some would argue otherwise. *applause*
Aslan?
[Raak] The Lion Messiah? NO.
A figurehead?
Begins with P?
A character of legend?
[Rosie] Carven prow? NO.
[Tuj] Begins with P? NO.
[Kim] Character of legend? A very good question, but difficult to answer with the given phrasing. I'll have to go with a potentially misleading IT DEPENDS.
Are we looking at reigious connections?
[Tuj] Religious connections? YES, for a sufficiently broad definition of religion.
Italian?
Mentioned in The Bible or other holy book?
such as Ian Allan ABC of British Railways Steam Locomotives 1952.
Is the animal human?
Are we talking about more than one animal?
Someone that Dan Brown has 'written' about?
Anything to do with the Greek Myths?
[Tuj] Italian? IT DEPENDS.
[Rosie] Mentioned in the Bible? YES.
[Irouléguy] Is the animal human? YES.
[Chalky] More than one? YES.
[G3] Dan Brown? NO IDEA, sorry. (Haven't read him.)
[Kim] Mentioned in Greek myths? YES.
Is it a one-word answer?
Is this the name of a group of people that are connected in some way?
Gods?
If Italian, then Romans?
[Tuj] One word on the card? YES. *applause*
[Chalky] A group of people connected in some way? Technically, YES.
[Kim] Gods? NO.
[Rosie] Romans? As before, IT DEPENDS.
Is this a collective state of mind?
Giants?
[Chalky] State of mind? NO. *laughter*
[Kim] Giants? NO.
Ghosts?
Is this a disease or medical condition?
[Tuj] Ghosts? *DING!* We have a winner!

Passing the ectoplasmic, ethereal baton...
*drawing the line...*
Your answer to my last question
[Quendalon] How refreshing. Neither have I.
[Gra III, Quend] I once tried reading a page or two. Failed [as in - didn't enjoy]. Actually - IMO he's crap :-)
Gosh!
Well, well. I'll set something ANIMAL.
Human?
Bigger than a toaster?
Begins with a P?
Unique?
Alive?
Please please PLEASE let it begin with a P!
Human? [R] YES, though that may be a touch misleading.
Bigger than a toaster? [C] NO
Begins with a P? [K] NO. Gosh, that was an oversight
Unique? [Q] CERTAINLY NOT
Alive? [B] Ooh, tough question. After Quenders' question I'll phrase it as DEPENDS WHICH PARTICULAR ONE YOU MEAN ;) Oh, and psorry.
Is there more than one human [and are they midgets] ? :-)
A human organ?
This could be a quick one!
More than one human? [C] NO (for a particular case). They could be midgets ;)
A human organ? [R] NO, but *strong audience applause*
Organ donors?
Organ donors? [Q] NO *audience sigh and reseat*
The hairs on the head?
Lilliputians?
An embryo?
Egyptians?
Sperm?
*giggles while wondering if GIII missed the "smaller than a toaster" thing, or if there's something I never knew about Egyptians...or toasters, for that matter :-)*
The last five
All NOs. The audience, for what it's worth, looked least interested when Rosie & Graham III posited what they posited.
A component of the human body?
A type of cancerous growth?
In my defence, I misread the toaster question.
A bodily component? [Q] YES! *audience cheer and high-five*
Cancerous growth? [G3] NO
Is it in the interior of the body?
Interior? Strictly YES, though the name is generally used for an exterior area also.
A type of cell?
Cell? [Q] NO
The ear?
Though it's an organ.
Osseous in nature?
Ear? [R] NO. Right letter, wrong bit.
Osseous? [Q] That's a definite PARTLY, bearing in mind what I said to Raak.
By the way
I'm at a wedding tomorrow & unlikely to be by a PC on Sunday, so unless someone knocks this one out by very early tomorrow (UK time) I may have to do a revealio.
Above the neck?
Above the neck? [Q] NO (unless you bent so as to place it there, of course ;))
An elbow?
A muscle?
Knee?
READ THE ANSWERS GIII!
An eye?
Brainy?
Forget that, please,
might this be termed an epiphysis?
Elbow? [CdM] CORRECTO!
A bend of the arm passes on the baton.
Oops. I hadn't checked here in a while, and indeed had forgotten that I had an outstanding guess. Also, that was a lurker's victory, for which I apologise.

ABSTRACT with an ANIMAL connection and also ANIMAL/VEGETABLE/MINERAL connections.
Is the single animal connection human?
Is the single animal human? Yes. *sprinkling of applesauce, er, applause*
(that, by the way, is not an obscure hint; it's just what I almost typoed)
Is this a piece of art?
Begins with a P?
Outstanding in both meanings of the word =)
Is the other animal a particular species?
Is the aforementioned human a particular individual?
Piece of art? No.
P's at start? No.
Species part.? No.
Particular individual? No.
Connected with a particular geographical area?
A class of person e.g. musitian?
Is it fictional?
A character of myth or legend?
Is it unique?
Placed? No.
Classed? No.
Fictional? *some muttering in the audience* The words on the card do not denote something fictional as such, but there are definitely many fictional connections.
Myth or Legend? No, but again there are many connections to myth and legend.
Unique? No.
Does this involve a circle?
wondering where that question came from...
Circular involvement? No. I mean, I suppose it could, but not usually, and not in any way that would be helpful for finding the answer.
Is this connected with language?
Connected to language? I think the best answer is No. While there are some connections, there is neither a direct nor a necessary link to language.
Connected with religion?
Connected with religion? Sometimes, but by no means necessarily. (That is a more positive answer than my first instinct, but I am being influenced by a particular dictionary definition I am looking at right now.) The question does also prompt me to say that I should perhaps have said "...and also ANIMAL/VEGETABLE/MINERAL/ABSTRACT connections".
Thought?
A mental activity?
Is it "No Man's Land?"
Thought? No.
Mental Activity? I suppose, with a broad definition of mental activity, the answer is yes, but I'm not sure that is helpful.
No Man's Land? No.
Perhaps there is a bit more of a connection to language than I implied before, simply because this is most often made manifest through language (see "fictional connections").
Connected with politics?
A manifesto of some kind?
A ceremony or ritual?
Is it musical?
Poitical? No.
Manifesto? No.
Ceremony/ritual? No.
Musical? No.
Is this a form of entertainment?
Entertainment? No.
Pork Barrel Politics?
Pork Barrel Politics? Since it is not connected to politics, the answer is No.
An observable phenomenon?
Is it an office that someone holds?
Is this linked to ICT?
Is more than one human required?
I'm regretting this one big time...
Observable phenomenon? I don't think it is best described as a phenomenon and it is only observable with a very broad definition of the term.
Office? No.
Linked to ICT? No.
More than one human required? No specific human or humans are required.
Is it something which wouldn't exist without humans?
Any connection to eating and drinking?
One-word answer?
Any medical connections?
Something that wouldn't exist without humans? Yes, in two distinct ways. *applause, tinged with relief for the modicum of progress*
Connected to eating and drinking? No.
One word answer? Yes. *applause* Medical connections? No.
Is it, therefore, a human construct?
To do with relationships?
Human construct? It is most definitely a human construct. *audience laughter and applause*
To do with relationships? No.
Is there a connection with philosophy?
Connected with science?
Connected to philosophy? No.
Connected to science? No.
For most of these "connected to ...?" questions I can imagine some sort of connection. But the card talks about something relatively narrow and specific.
To do with travel?
To do with travel? No.
Does it begin with a letter in the first half of the alphabet?
Alphabetically privileged? Yes.
Discovered/invented within the past 100 years?
Within last century? No.
Is it a condition that affects some people but not others (eg baldness, unemployment...)?
Condition that affects some people but not others? No. It's not a condition. Some people might be more prone to it than others, I suppose, but it is more something that you do than that you suffer from.
Is this an invention?
Invention? No, at least not beyond the fact that it is a human construct.
Is it a sin?
Is it enjoyable?
not quite the same question as Kim's...
A sin? No.
Enjoyable? No, not particularly. Nor is it not enjoyable.
A mental process?
A mental process? Sort of. *cautious applause*. This AVMA isn't intentionally trying to be difficult or misleading. The questions are just hard to answer.
Logic?
Could you tell if someone was doing this by looking at them?
Is it some kind of physical movement?
Are the animal/vegetable/mineral connections concerned with the Earth as a whole?
Logic? No.
Can you tell by looking? No, in almost all cases. Mainly this is because it is almost always made manifest through language, as I said before.
Some kind of physical movement? No.
Connected to the Earth as a whole? No. It is not so much that there are A/V/M connections as a whole; rather each specific example of this will have an animal or vegetable or mineral or abstract connection.
Is this something that we do every day?
Is this an abstract noun?
... such as - Curiousity?
Does it involve stories?
Is it suscepitble to cause and effect?
Does the word on the card start with a vowel?
Something we do every day? Good question, and I actually not really sure of the answer. My first instinct was no. Most of us certainly do not do it consciously every day. On reflection, though, I suspect that it is something we often do without being aware of it, so the answer might well be yes.
Abstract noun? Yes. *applause*
Curiosity? No.
Does it involve stories? Very often, yes (though it might be more accurate to say that stories can involve it). *some applause*
Susceptible to cause and effect? I'm not exactly sure what you mean, but I think that the only helpful answer is No.
Vowel at the head? Yes.

Sorry this is so tricky. I have scattered a few obscure clues in my answers of the last several days. If the next few questions take you no closer I'll try to think of a better clue.
An explanation?
Imagination?
An attitude of mind?
(e.g. cynicism)
Explanation, Imagination, Attitude? No.
A type of speech act?
Is it related to a lack of brevity/efficiency or the like?
Trying to read something into the last (and earlier) answers
Type of speech act? No (at least, not as I understand the term). Nevertheless, I think your answers are getting warmer, even if they still need several sweaters.
Soulless wit? No. That was just me being long-winded.
Adjective?
Is this an -ism?
Absent-mindedness?
Abstraction?
Is it a gerund?
anarcho-syndicalism? :)
Adjective? No. Nor is it one.
An -ism? Yes. *applause*
Absent-mindedness?
Abstraction? No, but *sustained applause and a little laughter*
An -ing? No (although there is a gerund that is very closely related to the word on the card, and my answers would probably be identical had I picked that word instead). (In fact, pedantically speaking, I think my answer to, say, your (Iroul's) previous question was probably more about the -ing than the -ism.)
AS? No.
Anthropomorphism?
Spoonerism?
Spoonerism? On, but...
Anthropormorphism? Yes! Chalky gets a highly relieved baton
post -traumatic stress
OK-a-a-aay. The baton enjoyed a few hours sleep but only after extensive counselling. Any temporary relief may be short-lived ....

V E G E T A B L E / A B S T R A C T with ANIMAL/MINERAL connections
Is the abstract vegetable metaphorical?
[Raak] Metaphorical? NO
Edible?
Is the abstract a state of the vegetable?
[CdM] A good subject, but I'm trying hard to see how we could have got to it more logically (of course we could have been luckier at times)
Are the animal connections human?
[INJ] No, I don't think it was a very good subject, actually. It seemed clever when I thought of it, but abstract nouns like that tend to be a bit too, well, abstract. I perhaps should have pointed you to think harder about my human construct ("in two distinct ways") answer. Otherwise you are right; my answers felt very vague to me, and it is hard to see how you could have found your way any better.
The grapes of wrath?
CdM] I thought it was a good one - I'd rather too difficult than too easy.
[CdM] Edible? NO
[INJ] Abstract a state of the vegetable? If you mean the condition of the vegetable - then only in the broadest possible sense.
[CdM] Human animal connections? YES
[Irouléguy] The grapes? NO
Is the vegetable growing/alive?
[INJ] Growing/Alive? YES ;)
Is it a geographical entity?
[Phil] Geographical entity? NO
Fictional?
One particular vegetable?
[Quendalon] Fictional? NO
[Rosie] One particular vegetable? Worded thus, your question can only receive a NO/YES/SORT OF reply. Sorry.
Is the vegetable wood?
[Irouléguy] Wood? NO
I can't believe it has gone this long without someone asking, so.....does it begin with 'P'?
[Bigsmith] Does it begin with a 'P'? ONE of the words on the card does!
Many plants all of the same type?
To try to resolve Rosie's question!
Is it "The Great Pumpkin"?
A quality or characteristic of a vegetable?
Is it connected to a particular human?
[INJ] Many plants all of the same type? In a manner of speaking - YES. *audience applauses*
[Kim] The Great Pumpkin? NO
[Quendalon] Quality or characteristic of a vegetable? I shall say YES with slight reservations because I wouldn't wish to lead you astray :-)
[Tuj] Any particular human? Most definitely NO - the human[animal]/mineral element merely supports the main definition, ie. these components make it happen.
A forest or wood?
Does the answer relate to a particular sense?
(As in smell, etc)
[Rosie] A forest or a wood? NO [but you're moving in the right direction re: the 'vegetable']
[INJ] Relate to a particular sense? *audience applauds an excellent question* Not a straightforward YES here - the answer has connections with sensory organs.
The scented garden?
[Software] Scented garden? NO
Tactile connections?
[Quend] Tactility? um ... NO - by saying that, I'm trying to be helpful :-)
Are the vegetables trees?
{Irouléguy] Are the vegetables trees? NO! You have already asked the wood question :)
An allotment?
[Rosie] An Allotment? NO
Are vegetebles mainly flowers?
[Rosie] Vegetables mainly flowers? They could be - in this particular instance [the Abstract element] they are not.

CLUE: 'Vegetable' can mean something other than a fruit, a plant, an ebible vegetable, a tree, a forest, a flower etc.
ebible? ebible?
Roots?
Chalky] What's wrong with an e-bible? God gave Moses the Ten Commandments on two Tablets, remember ;)
The Pollen Count?
[Irouléguy] Roots? NO - but much much closer because ..

ImNotJohn has tapped straight into my wavelength with a perfect answer!
*sneezes then hands over the baton*
Wipes the baton carefully
I nearly guessed that a couple of days earlier
So let's start again with ABSTRACT/MINERAL
A geological feature?
[CdM]geological feature? - NO
A work of art?
Fictional?
Is the mineral metal of some kind?
[GIII] But is it art? - NO
[Quen] Fictional? - Might be, might not be
[Bigsmith] Metal? - NO
Is it a mineral of myth or legend?
[Kim] Mithril or legendary? - NO
Unique?
Human construct?
A figure of speech?
[Quen] Unique - NO
[CdM] Human etc. - YESish
[Raak] Figure of Speech - YES (applause)
Is it a saying specific to a region or country?
[G111] Region/country specific? - NO
Language-specific?
Feet of clay?
Having a go from the halfway line.
[CdM] The answer is in a specific language ;-)
Could it be in another? - I don't know, and I don't think it would help if I did
[Rosie] Floating like a butterfly? - NO (tipping it over the bar with nonchalant ease)
Is the word "rock" on the card?
A ton of bricks?
Is the mineral iron?
This shouldn't take long
[Quen] Rocky? - NO
[Raak] ton of bricks? - NO
[Dujon] ironic? - NO
Grounds for complaint?
Isthe mineral water?
Is the language English?
(Raak) Is the mineral water what? I think it is, actually. We'll see.
[Software] - Grounds for complaint? - NO
[Raak] watery? - NO
[Rosie] In English? - YES (sorry, I wasn't trying to be clever)
Is the mineral silicon based?
[Glll] silicon-based? - YES is the most helpful answer (*applause*)
Burying one's head in the sand?
cyber space?
Nearly there
[Glll] - Ostriching? - NO (but plenty more applause)
[Software] Cyber space - NO (they fall silent again)
Is the word sand in the answer?
[Glll] 'sand' in answer - YES
The sands of time?
[Raak] egg-timer? - NO
Keep trying
Shifting sands?
Cassandra? Sandra Day O'Connor? Pinsand needles?
A line in the sand?
oh, I bet that's right...
And the next one please
And Rosie gets it! The answer is 'A line in the sand'.
*Baton passed carefully without stepping too far*
*Somewhat startled, reaches over silicaceous demarcation zone and grabs the precious icon.*.

This time, it's - A N I M A L

Is it human?
(G III) Human? - certainly is
alive?
British?
(INJ) Alive? - Could be.
(Raak) British? - Could be.
Is it, at any given moment , a single specific human being?
(e.g., 200 meters hurdles world record holder)
(CdM) Not a single specific person in the way you mean.
A class of being, i.e. police?
Fictional?
Since the "could be" I can't get "Hong Kong Phooey, number one superguy; Hong Kong Phooey, quicker than the human eye" out of my head. Thanks, Rosie. I wonder if that's what inspired Software (hello hello? Police Headquarters).
(Software) - YES, sort of.
(ISP) It makes me think of Monty Python's Nudge, Nudge sketch.
(ISP) Just realised I hadn't answered your question. NO, not fictional.
Both male and female?
Might this person oft times be referred to as 'religious'?
(CdM) No hermaphrodites. One sex only.
(Dujon) Not essentially a religious person.
The occupant of some office?
It is more than one person, right?
(Raak) If you mean the office as a room, then NO.
(CdM) slightly hesitantly, YES
The holder of some position?
That sort of office.
(Raak) Holder of some position? - YES, but not quite in the usual sense. *approving murmurs from the audience*
Male?
(Irg) Male? - Certainly is. *More approving murmurs*
The winner of some competition?
The son and heir?
(Raak) - Not a competition winner.
(Irg) No, that would be impossible. *some discreet sniggers amongst wittier members of the audience*
Eunuchs?
(Bigsmith) "....and Goebbels had no balls at all"? NO, though strictly there is no reason why the subject(s) may not be differently-orchidised.
A child?
(Graham III) - NO, not a child.
Clarification:- My reply to Irouléguy has a temporal significance.
Do you have to be a certain age to be this?
The holder of some kind of record?
(Irouléguy) - Age limits? - YES, in effect, though not in a formal sense.
(Tuj) Not a record-holder.
The oldest man in the world?
[INJ] I was going to ask that a day or so ago, but the animal's not necessarily alive. I asked my previous question to completely rule it out.
A group defined by having experienced/lived through a particular event?
[Tuj] Yes, you're right - it's ruled out for a few reasons (like, not a single specific person) - Scrub that and try this one.
(INJ) (Qu. 1) Not the oldest man in the world. Nothing to do with his age, actually.
(Qu. 2) NO, but an event is involved. *Sort-of approving noises from the audience*
Is the event in the future?
For example, the team to represent GBR in the men's 4x100m sprint relay at the Beijing Olympics.
(Bigsmith) A future event team? NO, the event is basically now but could be in the recent past.
Associated with one particular country?
(Tuj) NO, not associated with one particular country.
Begins with P?
Knew I'd forgotten something.
(Tuj) Perfectly preposterous proposition, pal - er, Not P.
Does the word 'veteran' appear on the card?
(Dujon) The word "veteran" - NO, no old soldiers.
Is the related 'event' to do with family?
Dead man's shoes?
Grasping at straws
(INJ) - Family? Very much so, Gary. *vigorous applause*
(Softers) - The straws got away. Not "Dead man's shoes"
The father of the bride?
[Rosie] Surely you meant 'Very much so, yes; Gary'
*suspects INJ has given it away*

but just in case... A father-in-law?
(INJ) NO, not the bride's father. re "Gary" - you may well be right. :-)
(Irg) Worth the shot, but not him either.
To do with a birth?
(probably just as well - I won't be posting on Thursday or Friday, so I'd better not win this)
A godfather?
(INJ) Fear not; you haven't. It's nothing to do with a birth. Good luck on K2 and see you Saturday.
(Phil) NO, not a godfather.
Defined by relationship(s) with others?
A grandfather?
(Quendalon) NO, not defined by any relationship.
(Irouléguy) Not a grandfather.
Dutch Uncle?
(Software) NO, not a Dutch Uncle.
The head of the family?
(Irouléguy) NO, not the head of the family.
Related to geographical location?
(Quendalon) NO, no geographical connection.

Hint: You're all missing a feature of the answer that has been the subject of two questions and answers.

Is there more than one of these in a family?
Is there one of these in most families?
Having seconds, as no-one else has had a go for a while.
A maiden aunt?
Sperm?
(Irg) Both questions - There could be. Not relevant, really.
(Raak) Not a maiden aunt. (It's male)
(Quendalon) Sperm? NO. A fully-formed male person.
Best man?
YESSSS! Raak is the best man! Speech!
An alarm clock?
[Rosie] Good one, although the audience surely could have given INJ's 'father of the bride' a little encouragement. I'm still confused by the audience reaction to 'son and heir', though.
Unaccustomed as I am...
[CdM] If the happy couple's son was the best man at their wedding...

The next is M I N E R A L.

Metal?
[Raak] Unusual perhaps, but not "not possible"
Art?
And the son & heir of whom was not defined. My best man was the son and heir of the father of the groom for example...
[CdM] Made of metal.
Unique?
One metal only?
(CdM) Raak's explanation of the "son and heir" audience reaction is what I was thinking of, though I agree it's a bit convoluted and overdone.
Begins with P?
[Rosie] I was more confused as to why the answer to "Alive?" was "could be"
[I] Not unique.
[R] One metal? Possibly, perhaps likely, but not useful to know.
[T] P.
Man-made?
[Q] Man-made.
Does it use electricity?
(Tuj) Well, my Dad's best man is dead, as no doubt are Henry VIII's. I could have said "Yes, at the time" but that would have been giving too much away.
Any moving parts?
[Rosie] Not usually electric.
[CdM] Yes, there are moving parts.
When not electric, is it powered by hand or foot?
Larger than a toaster?
[R] When not electric, it is powered by (at least one of) hand or foot. (Murmurings in the audience.) Ok, partly powered.
[I] Not larger than a toaster.
A timepiece?
[Rosie] (the audience almost applaud) Not a timepiece.
Is it a domestic item?
Used in the kitchen?
Scales?
[Raak] I wonder what that sounds like ;)
[R] Npot domestic.
[I] ...hence not used in the kitchen.
[Tuj] Not scales.
[Tuj] The sound of two hands clapping, but not against each other.
BELLOWS . . . whoops, sorry . . . bellows?
Do people own these things?
A tool?
[D] Not bellows.
[R] People own these.
[I] In a general sense, yes. (Is a pencil a tool? Is a kettle a tool? In that sense, this thing is a tool.)
Associated with leisure?
This weekend I was at a 20th anniversary celebration - we had also been at the wedding, where the best man was the son and heir of the groom (he was a widower).
[INJ] Er...yes, associated with leisure.
A compass?
Also, can you answer my first question?
[GIII] Sorry, missed that. Not art, and not a compass.
Anything to do with television?
Can one person, alone, make full use of it for its intended purpose?
[R] Not directly connected with TV.
[Q] More than one person must be involved.
Is it a game?
[Rosie] (the audience grow alert but not yet excited) Not a game.
Is it a toy?
[Phil] Not a toy.
Associated with sport(s)?
[Q] (applause!) Yes, associated with sports.
Associated with a ball game?
A boule?
[I] Not associated with a ball game.
[G] ...not even in French.
Associated with athletics?
a dart?
A starter's pistol?
[Rosie] (cheering) Associated with athletics.
[Software] Not a dart.
[Phil] **BANG** A starter's pistol.
Really? Gosh! I'll try and think of a new one in the morning.....way too "sleepy" right now.
Till now, I'd even forgotten I'd won, that's how "sleepy" I was.

OK, out next AVMA is VEGETABLE

Begins with P?
Unique?
Edible?
[Tuj] P? NO
[Quendalon] Unique? NO
[Irouléguy] Edible? NO - a titter from the audience
Made of wood?
Potable?
[Rosie] Made of wood? Partially
[Dujon] Potable? NO
Something constructed?
A British Rail Sandwich?
surely inedible?
[Irouléguy] Constructed? Not my first choice of word, but YES.
[Software] BR Butty? NO - I wouldn't put too much emphasis on the audience's titter.
Normally found in the home?
Bigger than a washing machine?
Toasters have been way too privileged in this game.
[INJ] Normally found in the home? It can be.
[CdM] Bigger than a washing machine? YES and NO - depends how you measure "bigness"
Main purpose decorative or display?
I take your answer to CdM to mean: greater in at least 1 dimension, but with a lesser volume than a 600mm x 600mm x 900mm toaster.
[INJ] Mainly decorative? Hmmmm... NO
Re: CdM's question: My answer, in this instance, means larger in at least 1 dimension, but lesser in volume than a standard domestic washing machine (approx 900 x 600 x 600mm). By the way, you have a very big toaster!
Broom?
A tool?
CdM may have said washing machine, but the traditions of the game dictate that he must have meant toaster
does it begin with a P?
[INJ] Maybe he said 'washing machine' because if you say 'toaster' to Phil he puts a bag on his head...
[Quendalon] Broom? NO
[INJ] Tool? NO
[IS,P!] Begin with P? Still NO. And can I take the bag off now please?
Is it used in sport?
Part of the structure of a house?
[Chalky] Used in sport? NO
[Rosie] Part of structure of house? NO *a little applause*
Is it significantly longer than it is wide?
[CdM] Length much > width? Not necessarily, but can be.
A crawling board?
[Rosie] Crawling board? NO
Is this designed to protect?
[Dujon] Designed to protect? Partially YES, but not exclusively to protect.
Is it something like ivy, which covers a house and can project but may not be considered decorative?
That was a lot of words!
[Software] Something like ivy? NO
Would it normally contain something?
[Chalky] A container? NO
Easily portable?
[INJ] Easily portable? NO
Some kind of door or entrance?
We know that it is wholly vegetable but only partially made out of wood. So
Is it primarily (say, more than 90%) wood?
[Rosie] Door or entrance? NO
[CdM] > 90% wood? NO
Is the bit that's not wood some form of natural vegetation?
[Chalky Ntural vegetation? Not in its original form. Don't forget that this has been "contructed", although that is not the most ideal word to convey what has happened to the vegetable constituents.
Is it fewer than 10% wood?
[Phil] I just did that to annoy you. :-)
If not "constructed" would "fashioned" or "sculpted" (either) be a more appropriate description?
[CdM] <10% wood? NO (Me? Annoyed? Nonsense! *unclenches teeth*
[Rosie] Fashioned/sculpted? NO. Probably further from ideal than "constructed", in fact.
Essentially an outdoors object?
[Rosie] Outdoors? NO
Does this comprise of wood (combined with something else) which has been shredded/chipped and then moulded?
Is this always 100% vegetable? (no screws, nails, glue, ink...)
[Dujon] Shredded wood combined with something else and moulded? I think that warrants a YES - *relieved applause*
[CdM] Always 100% vegetable? Good question. Further research reveals a trace of mineral that I was previously unaware of, plus some pigment that may be vegetable or mineral. But essentially I'd say YES, at least 99.5% vegetable. *some more applause*
Would the typical morniverser own one?
Wood chipping mulch/dressing?
[CdM] Would a Morniverser own one? Probably not, but possibly.
[Software] Wood chippings? NO
Paper involved?
[INJ] Paper? NO
"Processed wood" eg chipboard?
[Rosie] Processed wood? NO
Is it MDF?
A little summary perhaps...
The answer on the card is almost entirely vegetable (over 99%) with a trace of mineral, and perhaps some animal. Wood makes up between 10 and 90% of it. It is partially, but not exclusively designed to protect, but is not mainly decorative.
Shredded wood combined with something else and moulded got a YES, but it's not perfectly accurate. It also got some applause. Other applause has been for "part of the structure of a house?", although the answer was NO. Also, querying if it was always 100% vegetable received some applause - mainly for being such a good question.
It is larger, in at least one dimension than a washing-machine-sized toaster. It is not "fashioned or sculpted" from wood. Technically-speaking it is constructed, but that is not how I would put it.
...more...
It does not begin with P; is not a tool, broom, container or crawling board. It does not involve paper, and is not a type of processed wood (such as chipboard), not is it wood mulch. The typical Morniverser probably doesn't own one, but might. It is not used in sport, is not an outdoors object.
Also, the non-wood part is not natural vegetation in its original form.
[Kim] MDF? NO
Is this wooden percentage made up mainly of bark?
Thanks for the precis, Phil, but that's not the job of the Chair and should be attended by one of his or her fawning acolytes.
Is it part of the structure of any other thing?
As opposed to, say, a house.
Is the "other" vegetable hay?
A hay stack?
[Dujon] Wooden percentage mainly bark? It can be, but doesn't have to be.
[Quendalon] Part of structure of non-house? NO
[Irouléguy] Hay involved? NO
[Software] A haystack? NO
A log cabin?
[Kim] A log cabin? NO
Do you own one?
[GIII] Do I own one? NO
Could one see this in a pub?
Even if not in your revered establishment, my Lord. (Dujon) Will that do?
Related to animals?
[Rosie] Could it be seen in a pub? YES, but not all pubs.
[Quendalon] Related to animals? NO
A pool table?
[Chalky] A pool table? NO - I think that would be less than 99% vegetable.
A skittle alley?
[Software] Skittle Alley? NO - I think that would be bigger than a washing machine-sized toaster
Correction to previous answer I was only asked if it was bigger than the toaster in at least one dimension, to which I replied YES. No-one has yet established in how many (or indeed which) dimensions the item is bigger than a toaster (or washing machine).
Is it longer than a toaster?
Is it longer than a toaster standing on its end?
[IRG] Longer than a toaster? YES
[INJ] Longer than a toaster on end? YES
Typically painted?
I've got the image of something shaped like a door or a kitchen worktop.
Is the wood from a specific type of tree?
Is this a regular shape or is it a bit wigglyish??
[INJ] Painted? Strictly speaking, NO.
[Quendalon] Specific tree? NO
[Chalky] Regular shape? YES
Is it a cuboid (tall, long, not very thick)?
[IRG] Cuboid? YES, but not as you've defined. Here's a clue, as I'm going on holiday on Saturday for a fortnight. Wide, long and not very tall.
A doormat?
[Software] Doormat? NO *Some encouraged applause*
Typically varnished or similarly treated?
[CdM] Typically varnished? NO (although I did have to do some reading to check)
Are there typically pictures of any kind on it?
[Quendalon] Typically pictures on it? NO
A floor covering of some sort?
[Irouléguy] A floor covering? YES *rapturous applause and whoops of delirious delight from the audience*
Stair carpet
or something like that, such as a hall runner?
[Software] Stair carpet? NO *audience believes they may get to cheer today*
Laminate flooring?
[GIII] Laminate flooring? NO *ooohs and aaahs*
Fitted wood flooring?
[IRG] Fitted wood flooring? NO
May I refer you all back to "Shredded wood combined with something else and moulded got a YES, but it's not perfectly accurate. It also got some applause." I think that's slightly helpful without giving it away. Note also that I have had to do some research in order to answer a couple of questions.
Cork flooring?
[IRG] Cork flooring? NO - the wood ingredient can be bark (which is what cork is), but doesn't have to be. Also, less than 90% of the total comes from wood.
Coconut matting?
Getting desperate
[Software] Coconut matting? NO
OK, here comes a major clue. Things don't always look like what they're made of.
Linoleum?
[Chalky] Vinyl floor? I'm afraid not.
[Cdm} Linoleum? YES, dagnammit, YES!
It's made of powdered wood or bark, linseed oil, canvas or burlap (both of which are vegetable), with some pigments (hence the traces of mineral). And in 13 hours' time I go on holiday for 2 weeks. ttfn!
Well, I stood on the shoulders of giants that time. Excellent subject choice, and a very educational round. After Phil's clue I thought it had to be lino, but I needed to google to check because I realized I had no idea what it was made of. I'll be back later today to set a new clue.
[Phil] Have a good trip!
although I suppose maybe you could argue for a vegetable component as well
This one is ANIMAL and ABSTRACT.
An anarcho-syndicalist?
Making a welcome return.
Is the animal human?
CdM] Well guessed
A metaphorical character?
E.g. Essex Man etc
But does it begin with P...?
Anarcho-syndicalist? No.
Human? No.
Metaphorical? Yes, sort of. Character? No.
A well-known phrase or saying?
In a general sense does the animal part relate to a particular type of animal?
(e.g. cat, dog, cow)
It's a jungle out there
Well-known phrase or saying? I think the best answer is Yes.
Particular type of animal? Yes.
Does the animal display some particular characteristic such as the smile of the Cheshire Cat?
Remember, remember, the 5th of November
Particular characteristic? Yes (interpreting "characteristic" somewhat broadly).
Is the animal a mammal?
Particular gender?
A fish?
Begins with P?
Cat got your tongue? ;)
Is it a sleeping dog?
Interesting constellation of questions
Mammal? No.
Particular gender? No.
A fish? Yes. *applause*
Begins with P? No.
Feline tongue entrapment? No (but my internets were broken for most of the day; sorry)
Sleeping dog? No.
A particular type of fish?
Under African Skies
Particular type of fish? Yes.
A red herring??
A red herring? Yes! One smoked baton passed to Néa.
Oh dear
It was the aproposes that did it.

Now for something MINERAL
Man-made?
metallic?
[Raak] Yes.
[INJ] Yes.
Unique?
[Néa] Are you sure that shouldn't be "apropi"?
[CdM] Yes. And yes. "Apropoi", possibly.
Art?
[GIII] Only in a limited sense of the word.
An architectural construction?
[Raak] Yes.

There is a small amount of VEGETABLE involved as well.
A tin roof?
A particular building?
Is/are metal(s) the only mineral element?
More than 200 years old?
Could you (or I) lift it?
The "wobbly" (or Millennium) bridge?
Kaknästornet?
:-)
You've been inquisitive while I was gone
[Software] Not a tin roof.
[Raak] Yes, a particular building.
[Graham III] There are some other mineral components as well, but again very small proportions.
[CdM] Not more than 200 years old.
[Rosie] You and I could not lift it together.
[INJ] Not the Cake Nose Tower!
In Europe?
A building that is open to the public?
[CdM] Yes.
[INJ] No.
In Sweden?
Less than fifty years old?
[Irouléguy] No.
[CdM] No.

[Irg] Sorry, I missed your previous question - it also isn't the Millennium bridge.
Is it more than 119 years old and less than 122 years old?
[CdM] No, it is not both of those things.
Is it in London?
[Raak] Not in London.
Is it in Italy?
[Kim] Nor in Italy.
Eiffel Tower?
Because [CdM]'s question confused me.
Would the small amount of vegitable be growing on the structure?
Is it a bridge?
[Q] Unless I have also confused myself, Néa's answer rules out the Eiffel Tower. (Her answer is semantically interesting, because it can be parsed in two distinct ways, but only one of them is sensible.)
[Q, CdM] No, it is not the Eiffel Tower. My reply to CdM meant that it is not between 119 and 122 years old.
[Software] There may be vegetables growing on it but that was not what I meant.
Is it less than 122 years old?
Progress at last!
[Irouléguy] Yes, yes it is.
The Forth (railway) Bridge?
Does it perform a specific function?
[Néa] You have missed out CdM's bridge question!
[CdM] Not a bridge.
[Rosie] No.
[Bigsmith] Yes.
Is it in England?
Is it a tower?
[Quendalon] No.
[Graham III] Yes.
Is its specific function to broadcast signals?
[Raak] Yes! (audience starting to prick up their ears)
Is it north of Paris?
Still in use?
Functional rather than decorative?
Not it's getting more difficult
[Irouléguy] Yes.
[INJ] As far as I have been able to tell, the answer is no.
[Rosie] Yes is probably the best answer, but it's not straightforward.
Is it on land?
[Kim] Yes.
Did it collapse in 1991?
A recap:
A mostly metal broadcasting tower in Europe, but not in England, Italy, or Paris, built at least 50 years ago but less than 119, still in use, not open to the public, not the Cake Nose Tower, more southerly than Paris.
The original Radio Luxemburg transmitter?
Raak] More northerly than Paris.
Resisting the temptation to get another question in
[Raak] Probably not still in use.
[Graham III] No, it didn't.
[Irg] Not the original Radio Luxemburg transmitter.
Is it in Scandinavia?
[Raak] No.
Is it in Western Europe?
(i.e. one of Germany, France, Belgium, Luxembourg, Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, The Netherlands and outlying islands)
Being negative today, me
[Graham III] No.
Anything to do with astronomy?
An early warning system?
On an island?
More negativity
[Rosie] No.
[Software] No.
[Quendalon] No.
Is it in a country that used to be in the USSR?
(ie one of Belarus, Ukraine, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia and Russia)
[Irouléguy] Yes!
Is it named after its designer?
cheeky, but...
[Irg] It is indeed.
Is it a hyperboloid structure?
going for the hat-trick...
He knows, really
[Irg] Yes!!
Is it more than 86 years old and less than 89 years old?
It's so tempting...
*rolls eyes (own)*
[CdM] Yes.
[Irouléguy, CdM] Stop grandstanding before I name the bloody thing myself. :-D
Does it share one of its names with an underground station?
CdM, Quendalon] Not grandstanding, but teeing you up - I'm away at the weekend,so for once I don't want to take the baton. This is fun, though...
It's in the CCCP, innit
[Irg] Er. None that I know of, but there are many underground systems with stations whose names I'm ignorant of. Unless you mean its name in English translation, in which case the answer is Yes.
Oh, all right then...
Is it the Shukhov Tower in Moscow?
And about time, too
[CdM] Of course. The hyperboloid baton returned to CdM.
Gah
[Irouléguy] I'm sorry - I didn't remember that it's also called the Shabolovka. Which is of course also the name of a Moscow metro station.
Néa] No apologies necessary. I only learnt that yesterday from reading the Wiki page - and I should have said Metro rather than underground. It just amused me as an MC connection. Good topic!
Credit for the last obviously goes first to Irouléguy.
VEGETABLE and MINERAL. However, I will give an immediate clue that the vegetable element is much more fundamental than the mineral element.
Is the vegetable wood?
I just managed to restrain myself, since I'm on holiday from this weekend for the next 2 weeks.
And the mineral metal?
Does it begin with P?
Unique?
Man-made?
Wood? In part, yes
Metal? No (or to the extent there is any metal involved, it is highly tangential and inessential --even more tangential than the rest of the mineral component).
Begins with P? No.
Unique? Yes.
Man-made? Yes.
Is it more than 100 years old?
More than 100 years old? Both Yes and No are defensible answers.
One clarification. I said Yes to "man-made?", and that is the best answer. But No would also be defensible. There. That's clearer now, right?
Can it be seen from a mile away (without optical aid)?
Clearer? Clear as anything ever is with you, y'bugger. :-)
Is this a monument or other well known structure which was formed, sculpted or roughly shaped within the last 100 years and made out of a substance formed over a hundred years ago which could possibly include vegetable material but is probably made up of various metals (i.e. anything 'heavier' than hydrogen) and which is still extant?
A yes/no answer will suffice.
Can it be seen from a mile away? I am very tempted to say that yes and no are both defensible answers. However, I will say that the answer is No (almost certainly) unless you are talking about a mile away vertically, in which case the answer is Yes.
Is ... extant? Not exactly sure where you were going with that, but the best answer has to be No.
Is it in Europe?
And if you answer "yes and no" I shall weep.
Hampton Court Maze?
In Europe? Yes.
Hampton Court Maze? *The audience gasps collectively and bursts into sustained rapturous applause* No.
A maze somewhere in England?
A maze? Yes.
Somewhere in England? No.
Is the mineral water?
Water? No. For free, I will tell you that the mineral just refers to what is underfoot as part of this maze (that's why I said the vegetable element is much more fundamental). Most of the hard work has been done here; you just need to find out where this particular maze is.
Is this maze in a church or cathedral?
In a church or cathedral? No. (Visible from above, remember.)
In Wales?
Is it in Belgium?
In the grounds of a church or cathedral? No.
In Wales? No.
In Belgium? No.
North of Paris?
North of Paris? No.
In France?
Hellenic, like the hymn?
Hidden textA maze in Greece?
Public Service Announcement: Do not reveal the message in the previous move. Just trust me, ok.
Grecian? No.
In England?
(and GIII asked "in France?")
Oops, and Rosie asked about England. How about, In Eastern Europe (i.e. the old Eastern Bloc)?
You are winding your way in towards the center
In France? No. (sorry)
In England? Still No.
In Eastern Europe? No.
Made within the last 200 years?
Is it, by any chance, in Italy?
Dear Auntie CdM, I know I shuddent of done, but I cuddent resist clicking the "reveal" button like you tole me not to and now my sides av split. Wat can I do? Yours etc. Worried of Whitechapel.
Within last 200 years? Yes and No are both defensible. (See 100 years, above.)
In Italy? No.
Dear Worried. You can listen to me say, "I told you so".
The maze at Schönbrunn Palace?
The maze at Schönbrunn Palace? Yes!

"The Maze at Schönbrunn was laid out between 1698 and 1740... During the 19th century the Maze was gradually abandoned until in 1892 the last remaining hedges were felled. In autumn 1998 a new maze extending over 1.715 m with a viewing platform at its centre was laid out taking the historical model into account where possible."

*leaves the baton at the center for Raak to find*
By the way, I very nearly chose Hampton Court Maze, deciding only at the last minute to be a bit less Anglocentric. Had I stuck with that, Rosie's guess would have been one of the most impressive we have seen in the game to date.
(CdM) V kind! Unfortunately I know of no other mazes.
Left, left, right, right, straight on, over, under, back three squares, up a ladder, half-twist, strile, left, right, flamethrower.

The next is MINERAL (primarily) with an ANIMAL connection.

Man-made?
Does it comprise of more than one mineral?
is it a tool?
[Rosie] Man-made.
[Inkspot] Very likely more than one mineral.
[Software] Not a tool.
Is the mineral predominantly wood?
Doh! Sorry, is the material predominantly metal?
I don't know what's the matter with me these days. I must be getting old.
[Kim] Not predominantly metal.
Decorative?
other mineral is natural (as opposed to man-made)?
[CdM] Yes, one could say that it is decorative.
[Software] Natural, yes; in a state of nature, no.
Is the material mostly stone?
[I] Yes, mostly stone.
But is it art?
[S] Yes, it could be considered to be art.
Is it associated with one part of the world?
[I] It is associated with one part of the world.
Does it decorate the exterior of a building?
Unique?
The Sphinx?
Bigger than a phone box?
[Rosie] Does not decorate the exterior of a building.
[CdM] Unique.
[Software] Not the Sphinx.
[Projoy] Definitely bigger than a phone box.
Is the animal connection that it is manmade?
Is it in Europe?
[G III] It is manmade, but there is a more specific animal connection.
[I] It is in Europe.
A statue or sculpture?
[CdM] Not a statue or sculpture.
The bear pits of Berne?
[I] *Gasp of horror* "Not -- not the Dreaded Bear Pits of Berne!!!" No.
The Bullring, Brum? :o)
Is it a building?
Is the connected animal human?
[S] Not the Bullring.
[G III] It's a building.
[K] The animal is human.
Is the surname of the human one of the words on the card?
Is the building pre 1900?
[Kim] The human's surname is not on the card.
[Inkspot] It is pre-1900.
Is it north of Paris?
Is this going to become my signature question?
Was it built by an ancient culture?
In Eastern Europe (i.e. the old Eastern bloc)
(this is going to be my signature question)
Is it in England?
[I] After closely examining Google Maps, this is not north of Paris.
[G III] Not ancient.
[P] Not in Eastern Europe.
[R] Not in England.
In Austria?
[Software] a ripple of near-applause Not in Austria.
Switzerland?
[Kim] Not in Switzerland.
Germany?
[G III] Germany? Ja wohl!
A castle?
Scloss Neuschwanstein? The animal connection being the Schwan?
Cathedral Church of Our Lady, Munich?
[Néa] Applause!
[Projoy] Boos!
[irach] Cheering! Neuschwanstein it is. The animal connection I had in mind was Ludwig II.
Rats, I nearly just guessed that outright last night.
Okay….. This one is “ABSTRACT, WITH AN ANIMAL CONNECTION”
A work of art?
[Raak] Not a work of art.
The smile of the Cheshire cat?
[Rosie] No smile. No cat, Cheshire, or otherwise.
Is the animal in question human?
[Kim] Yes, the animal element is human.
A piece of music?
[Inkspot] Not a piece of music.
Does the name of the human appear in the answer?
[Rosie] Yes. The name of the person is in the answer.
Is it a unit of measurement?
[Inkspot] Not a unit of measurement.
Anything to do with the scientific world?
{Rosie] No scientific world connection.
Does this encompass art?
e.g. the [name of] school or style.
[Dujon] No, doesn't encompass art per se, except that the person named in the answer has been the subject of some works of art.
Royalty? (any country)
[Rosie] The person in question was not royalty, but did associate with royalty.
Was the person European?
[Irouléguy] The most pertinent answer is yes, the person was European.
Was the human a military person?
[Dujon] The person was a warrior, yes.
Beowulf?
Was the human alive before 1800?
Civis Romanum erat?
[CdM] Not Beowulf.
[Kim] If the person actually lived, it was before 1800 AD.
[Iroulëguy] No Civus Romanum erat.
A character from a fairy tale?
Male?
{Inkspot] Not acharacter from a "fairy tale".
[Nea] Yes, male.
Is is a character of myth or legend?
Is he a God?
[Kim] Yes, a caharacter in myth or legend.
[Inkspot] Not a God. A mortal, but with divine connections, nonetheless.
From Celtic myth and/or legend?
[Irouléguy] Not Celtic.
Scandinavian?
[Rosie] Not Scandinavian.
Someone like Rob Roy?
Greek?
[Software] Not Rob Roy.
[Kim] Yes, Greek.
Achilles' heel?
Sword of Damocles?
[Graham III] Not Sword of Damocles.
[Iroulëguy] ACHILLES' HEEL is it! Take it away.
WOO-HOO! I've cheered so much I feel like a Trojan -
Hidden texthoarse
. OK, our next is ABSTRACT with ANIMAL and VEGETABLE connections.
...also involving MINERAL.
Any Biblical connection?
irach] Any Biblical connection? No
Is the animal connection larger than a humanly constructed toaster?
Vegetable connection trees?
CdM] Is the animal connection larger than a humanly constructed toaster? True pedantry offers a number of possible answers, but the useful answer is yes. Rosie] Vegetable connection trees? Noak.
Is the human construction (larger than a toaster) a building?
Software] Is the human construction (larger than a toaster) a building? Not a building, and it's not a human construction.
More precisely, it's not a physical construction, or a physical anything. 'Bigger than a toaster' refers to the animal connection, not the thing itself.
Is it something like 'on the horns of a dilema'?
Software] Is it something like 'on the horns of a dilema'? It's not entirely unlike, but it's nowhere close.
Is the answer a phrase, proverb etc?
Rosie] Is the answer a phrase, proverb etc? *applause, cheering, etc* Yes!
Is the animal connection human?
Is the phrase a kind of warning?
CdM] Is the animal connection human? Yes
Rosie] Is the phrase a kind of warning? No
A white elephant?
Though I struggle with the mineral.
Is the answer a proverb (pace Rosie)?
Software - A white elephant? No - the mineral is implied in the answer, but not named. And don't forget the vegetable.
Kim - Is the answer a proverb (pace Rosie)? Barking up the wrong tree.
Is the vegetaale a fruit?
Is it the Jolly Green Giant?
Inkspot - Is the vegetable a fruit? *applause mixed with laughter from the audience* Yes
Kim - Is it the Jolly Green Giant? No no no
The apple of one's eye?
(Irg) Kim wishes me peace.
Rosie] The apple of one's eye? No
Or he's trying to drink at the same speed as you...
Is the fruit a commonplace edible item?
(Irg) No chance, then. :-)
Rosie] Is the fruit a commonplace edible item? Yes
Is the fruit a citrus?
The Big Apple?
CdM] Is the fruit a citrus? The answer's not a lemon
irach] The Big Apple? NYet
The Garden of Eden?
Is the phrase in question also the title of a work of lliterature
Rosie] The Garden of Eden? Adam fine question - but no
irach] Is the phrase in question also the title of a work of literature? No
So angry I could crush a grape?
Is the answer the title of an artistic work?
Inkspot] So angry I could crush a grape? Ire think not
Kim] Is the answer the title of an artistic work? No
Is the fruit a berry?
The fruit of our labours?
Kim] Is the fruit a berry? *laughter, followed by earnest audience discussion* Probably, yes
Software - The fruit of our labours? No
A berry by name, but not by strict definition?
A blackberry?
** motions towards ear **
Is it green and goes up and down in a lift? A gooseberry?
Graham III] A berry by name, but not by strict definition? No - other way round (probably)
Software - A blackberry? No
Inkspot} Is it green and goes up and down in a lift? A gooseberry? Possibly, unlikely, and no.
Is it a berry within the botanical (as opposed to common) meaning of the word?
Kim] Is it a berry within the botanical (as opposed to common) meaning of the word? *applause* Yes (probably)
'Probably' because the exact meaning of the word on the card is ambiguous, but this is the most likely meaning.
Is the human connection one or more actual persons?
The phrase :"A loaf of bread, a jug of wine and thou beside me?"
Kim] Is the human connection one or more actual persons? *much discussion in the audience* If actual=named, then yes.
irach - The phrase :"A loaf of bread, a jug of wine and thou beside me?" And wilderness is paradise, e? no
Are the named persons fictional characters?
Kim] Are the named persons fictional characters? I refer the honourable gentleman to his previous question. Fictional - almost certainly (though I have seen one website that says the opposite).
Is the berry a grape?
Resisting the temptation to ask whether it is "Attack of the killer kumquats"
Graham III] Is the berry a grape? No
I say tomahto and you say tomayto?
Is the human element a collection of individuals (eg, a class, a group, etc)
ImNotJohn] I say tomahto and you say tomayto? *some applause* No, nay
Kim - Is the human element a collection of individuals (eg, a class, a group, etc) No
Yankee Doodle Dandy?
Is the answer a popular food product?
Software - Yankee Doodle Dandy? No sirree
Kim - Is the answer a popular food product? No - a food product is two of the words on the card, but it's not the answer
Heinz Baked Beans?
Graham III - Heinz Baked Beans? No
Is it a jam or marmalade?
irach] Is it a jam or marmalade? No
Is it ice cream?
A fruit milk shake?
Kim] Is it ice cream? Nein (ty), nein
irach - A fruit milk shake? No
Is the food product shown on the card normally sweet-tasting?
Kim] Is the food product shown on the card normally sweet-tasting? *applause* No
Is the berry an olive?
Popeye and Olive Oil?
CdM - Is the berry an olive? *some applause* No
irach - Popeye and Olive Oil? No
Is the fruit pickled?
irach] Is the fruit pickled? *the audience rise as one person, cheering* YES!
Can one find this on the supermarket shelf today?
Software] Can one find this on the supermarket shelf today? One can find products with the same name on supermarket shelves - whether they are exact product referred to is doubtful.
Is it an ethnic food from the East?
Is the answer in the form 'so-and-so's such-and-such'?
irach] Is it an ethnic food from the East? No
ImNotJohn] Is the answer in the form 'so-and-so's such-and-such'? *cries of 'oooh' from the audience* No, but not that far off - in two ways.
Actually, the audience should have applauded part of irach's question.
Does it involve mango?
irach] Does it involve mango? No mag
Does it involve citrus?
Phileas Fogg's gentleman's relish?
irach] Does it involve citrus? No, Mel
Software] Phileas Fogg's gentleman's relish? No

It's Friday, it's five o'clock, it's Crackerjack! time for a summary, I feel

The whole thing takes the form of something described by “a phrase, proverb, etc”, though it is not a proverb. It includes two words describing a food product, and the name(s) of one or more persons, who is/are almost certainly fictional. The human element is not a collection of persons.

The food is derived from a fruit. Although the exact meaning of the word on the card is ambiguous, the fruit in question is almost certainly a berry, botanically speaking. The fruit is not lemon, blackberry, gooseberry, grape, mango, tomato or olive (though the last two got some applause), and it is not normally sweet-tasting. It is a common-place edible item.

The food product is pickled (sale being the mineral implied in the answer). It is not Heinz baked beans, jam or marmalade, ice cream, or a fruit milk shake. You can find food products with the same name on supermarket shelves, though they are probably not the exact product referred to in the words on the card. It is not an ethnic food from the East, though part of that question garnered applause.

The phrase is not a kind of warning, or the title of a literary or artistic work. [Note – the phrase may have been used as a title, but that’s not where you know it from] The phrase is not: the apple of one’s eye; so angry I could crush a grape; the fruit of our labours; a loaf of bread, a jug of wine, and thou beside me; Popeye and Olive Oil; Yankee Doodle Dandy. The phrase does not take the form 'so-and-so's such-and-such', but that is close in two distinct ways.

This game is missing one of its usual players, who might well have got this by now, or at least posed a particularly pertinent question.
It is associated with Indian food?
A pound of....?
Peter piper's pickled pepper?
... Or rather, the entire phrase "Peter Piper picked a peck of pickled pepper" ?
Begin with the letter P?
Capers?
Well, we've a worthy winner! The complete Peter Piper phrase it is - one pepper-flavoured baton handed over to irach.
The next is ABSTRACT WITH MINERAL AND PROBABLE VEGETABLE CONNECTIONS `
Is this a phrase?
[Software] Yes, a phrase.
Does this phrase relate to extraterrestial bodies - or body?
[Dujon] Totally terrestrial.
Is the mineral a liquid?
[irach] Not a liquid.
Is the mineral reference rock?
Old as the hills?
Shut up at the back there.
is the probable vegetable wood?
Is it culturally specific to English?
[Dujon] Not a rock.
[Rosie} Not "old as the hills".
[Iroulëguy] The probable vegetable is not wood
[ImNotJohn] the phrase was coined in English, but is not culturally specific.
Is the mineral combustible?
[Rosie] The mineral is non-combustible.
Could the phrase be construed as a "saying"?
[Software} Not a "saying", but a frequently used term.
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