arrow_circle_left arrow_circle_up arrow_circle_right
AVMA Take 2
help
Yes, it's another round of that classic guessing game - Animal, Vegetable, Mineral, Abstract [or any combination thereof]. This effort - '03/'04 should address any queries, but then again, may just serve to confuse and baffle which some might say is the point of the game. Patience, integrity and a decent search engine may be useful ....
arrow_circle_up
A chrestomathy?
wait a moment while I look that up...
[Raak] a chrestomathy -- NO. (it's in wikipedia, anyway).
Anything to do with books?
[Tuj] Anything to do with books -- YES, some.
Back in a few hours... do carry on.
Diaglossia?
Some sort of system of translation?
(except that would be a process, I guess)
A verse form?
Spelling tests?
A public library?
Something to do with the word "version"?
Printing?
bucket-o-hints
[Raak] diaglossia -- NO (had to check that one too)
[Projoy] some sort of system of translation -- NO, but it can be very useful in this.
[Projoy] a verse form -- NO.
[Phil] spelling tests -- NO, but spelling is an issue.
[Dandalf] a public library -- NO, but it can often be found there.
[Tuj] something to do with the word "version" -- NO, but it often has different versions.
[Irouléguy] printing -- NO, but it is most often printed.
Transliteration?
(except I guess there must be examples of that way into the BCE dates).
(and it's an activity and a process, curses!)
A testimony?
...which isn't right but I'm hoping I might guess something which could point us the right way. Not likely, eh?
Roadsigns?
By, which I of course mean "signage" in general, since you can find it in libraries...
[Projoy] Transliteration -- NO, but transliteration is sometimes involved.
[Tuj] A testimony -- NO.
[Projoy] roadsigns/signage -- NO.
Taking notes?
A text book?
[Tuj] Taking notes -- NO.
[Phil] A text book -- NO.
Begins with a P?
Pheww
[Tuj] Begins with a P -- many of them do. But the answer doesn't. So I have to say NO.
Mmmhwwhhwa? I think I give up.

at least for now.
A group of words?
who am i kidding
[Tuj] A group of words -- *audience gasps* YES it is but that's not The Answer, so NO.
A particular class of word such as noun, verb etc.?
[Projoy] a particular class of word -- *audience gasps again* NO!
Something to do with an encyclopedia?
[CdM] something to do with an encyclopedia -- NO...
Home stretch?
OK, this is getting very long, so here's another summary where the other one left off.

The answer has to do with language, more so written than spoken.
Two places definitely had examples of it before 20CE.
It is an invention, in that it is something made up by people. It is not just a concept.
It has something to do with instructions (although perhaps not directly as much as I first thought).
It is often but not necessarily connected to translation and can be very useful in this.
It has something to do with a book or books.
It can often be found in a public library.
It is most often printed.
It often has different versions.
Spelling is an issue.
Transliteration is sometimes involved.
It is a group of words (kind of) but not a particular class of word.
Many instances of the answer start with the letter P.

It is not "a dictionary" and is not "something to do with an encyclopedia". It did not first appear in the Middle East and is not to do with one particular language.

The audience or some of the audience were impressed when the law, grammar or language schools were mentioned, although it is none of these things.

Oh, and the answer has more than one word (plus an indefinite article), not starting with the letter "P", and it does not have its own wikipedia entry.

An Index?
Forget that; it has a wikipedia entry...
And it is only one word. On the bright side, it doesn't begin with the letter P.
a particular way of organising a group of words?
(it's not a concordance either, as that's in Wikipedia, too)
:-)
[CdM] an index -- NO
Don't think of an elephant!!
I now keep wanting to say anything beginning with P, such as paragraph, page and punctuation.
[Projoy] a particular way of organising words -- NO.
[Projoy] *ROFL*
Is there a typical number of words in this group (or can it vary wildly from a few words to hundreds)?
I know it's not my go, but....
It's not a particular type of morpheme, is it?
Is it an elephant? If not, does its physical manifestation (as a group of words) typically occur only in a particular type (or types) of book?
had to look that one up too.
[Projoy] a particular form of morpheme -- NO
old-world charm...
[CdM] an elephant - that is not the answer.
[CdM] YES! *wild cheering*. the physical manifestation of elephant as a group of words typically only occurs in a particular type of book. I think.
[Projoy] I meant a particular type of morpheme (still NO) Blame too many simulposts.
many apologies
[CdM] and I meant the physical manifestation of The Answer (as a group of words) typically only occurs in a particular type (or types) of books -- YES but, note, The Answer can also occur elsewhere.

(I mis-read "it" amongst the flurry of posting; you can have elephants in lots of books, of course, as well as elsewhere.)

woohoo, quintuple post
Of course, my mistake illustrates my difficulty with aspects of this topic all along. Note to self: don't win again.
[flerdle] Hey, I said don't think of an elephant! :)
PS. Is there a typical number of words in this group (or can it vary wildly from a few words to hundreds)?
[Projoy, elephants] AAAARRRRRGGGHHHHH

[Projoy] sorry, that got lost in the flurry of posts and a random backspace. NO. The number of words can vary wildly depending on where The Answer is found and The Answer itself. A random sampling just now gave the number of words as 24, 10, 65, 30 and 352.

Did you perform that random sampling with books that you had to hand?
Can I just say that this AVMA is (a) very good and (ii) very annoying?
[CdM] Did I perform that random sampling with books that I had to hand -- I would answer NO if I was to be evil because I used only one book. YES otherwise.
Is it a subclause (which often appears parenthetically)?
(I know it isn't really, since that appears in all kinds of books, but you have to get this stuff out of your head sometimes)
Wait a second... footnotes?
please excuse my badly mangled second-last sentence up there...
[Projoy] a subclause -- NO :-)
[Projoy] footnotes -- NO.
[Projoy] I have gone through footnotes and other similar ideas in my head, but then I get stuck on the fact that there are also very early instances of the elephant.
Is it some kind of definition or explanation?
[CdM] some kind of definition or explanation -- YES! *audience cheers enthusiastically*
a citation or quotation?
Scrub that, is it a definition in law, i.e. appearing in a contract or piece of legislation?
A dictionary definition?
[Projoy] citation/quotation -- NO, but it can be a very important part of some elephants
[Projoy] a definition in law/contract/legislation -- NO... *audience holds its collective breath*
[Phil] a dictionary definition -- CLOSE ENOUGH!
So, what were the words on the card?
The words on the card are actually "a dictionary entry". You can check the history of the dictionary in the wikipedia. Everything else can be seen above. *audience claps for everyone, especially CdM and Raak, with special cheers for Projoy's perseverence*

*retires*


I suddenly spotted the quotes in It is not "a dictionary" and realised there must be some significance.
Dunno how to follow that epic, but I'll try.

Vegetable

A dictionary?
Blimey, what a struggle!
A drink?
A live plant?
In hindsight, another clue(whether intentional or not)was the answer "not everything in the wikipedia has its own entry" right after the answer to Raak's guess "dictionaries". That was a very good AVMA. Nice one, Flerdle.
[Tuj] Dictionary? Not this time, matey :-)
[Inkspot] A drink? No, although I could do with one.
[Dandalf] A live plant? YES
A tree?
(On the last one I got totally sidetracked by the letter-P-elephant. I assumed there was something special about P.)
Native to a particular country?
Edible?
Typically sold at the local garden centre?
[Projoy] Tree? No
[Dandalf] Edible? YES
[Raak] Typically sold at local garden centre? No
A fungus?
[Projoy] That'd be my fault then :(
A bush?
[Tuj] Fungus? No
[Projoy] Bush? No
A berry?
Coughs politely
A root vegetable?
Does it grow in the wild?
nettle?
[Dandalf] Definitely intentional. [Projoy] many apologies.
A brassica?
flerdle] Do win again - that was one of the best for a long time.
A fruit ?(In the culinary not botanical sense)
Sweet, rather than savoury?
[Tuj, flerdle] No apols necessary. The whole fun of the game is trying to avoid being taken for a ride by your assumptions, and all the questions asked and answers given were completely correct.
Green in colour?
Typically found in the vegetables section of a British supermarket?
[Inkspot] Berry? No
[Rosie] Root vegetable? YES
[Chalky] grow in the wild? No, not as far as I know.
[flerdle] nettle? No
[Irouléguy] Brassica? No
[Dandalf] Fruit? No
[Projoy] Sweet, not savoury? Ummm, no. ( Some hushed comments amongst audience members)
[Tuj] Green? Partly
[Raak] Typically in UK supermarket? No
Carrot?
Yam?
(as opposed to sweet potatoes, which I think are to be found in British supermarkets these days. Aren't they?)
[\tuj] Carrot? No
[CdM] Yam? No (Yes, sweet potatoes are generally to be found in British supermarkets these days)
Chives?
Native to a particular country?
Just ask this one again as it has been over looked
Cassava? which unlike chives is a root vegetable ; -)
[Rosie] Chives? No
[Inkspot] Native to a particular country? (Sorry, didn't spot that earlier) No, as it does not grow in the wild, as far as I know.
[Dandalf] Cassava? No
Taro?
In order to get the last of the obvious ones out of the way.
[CdM] Taro? No - and if that's obvious, I'd hate to see obscure ;-)
Arrowroot?
Jerusalem artichoke?
Don't all cultivated plants have a wild form? Unless only the cultivars have survived and the original wild form is now extinct.
[flerdle] Arrowroot? No
[Dandalf] Jerusalem Artichoke? No - Yes, I presume all cultivated plants do derive from a wild form, but not all specific plants can be found in the wild.
A spice?
[Inkspot] Spice? No
A tuber?
[Inkspot] A tuber? No
A particular plant (rather than a vegetable/plant type)?
[flerdle] A particular plant? YES
Is it grown for human consumption?
[Inkspot] Grown for human consumption? YES - A ripple of applause from the slighly somnolent audience
sugar beet?
[flerdle] Sugar beet? No
Tea?
[Chalky] Tea? No
A swede?
Possibly not called Sven.
Is it grown in the Americas?
Is it typically processed (other than simply by cooking) before being eaten?
[Rosie] Swede? No
[Raak] Grown in the Americas? YES
[CdM] Typically processed before eating (other than cooking)? No, unless you count something like slicing as processing.
Time for a Summary
It is:
A specific, live, edible root vegetable, which is not (to my knowledge) found growing in the wild, and is not native to a particular country. It is grown in the Americas, and is grown for human consumption. It is partly green.

It is not:
A dictionary or a drink. Nor is it a tree, bush, fungus, berry, tuber, fruit, spice, tea, cassava, brassica, nettle, carrot, yam, chives, taro, arrowroot, jerusalem artichoke, spice, sugar beet or swede. It is not typically processed before eating (other than cooking or, say, slicing), and is not typically found in British supermarkets or local garden centres.

Peanuts, or if more "specific" is required Jimmy Carter's peanuts.
[Dandalf] Jimmy Carter's peanuts, or anyone else's for that matter? No
To clarify how specific I meant, the answer is something like "Savoy Cabbage", rather than "Cabbage" (to use a brassica-based example, which we know it isn't).
Is it medicinal?
[Inkspot] Is it medicinal? There are claims to its medicinal properties, so I think I'll have to say YES - Appreciative applause again for Inskspot
Well then ... is it typically consumed primarily for its medicainal properties?
[CdM] Typically consumed for medicinal purposes? No
Jicama?
It seems to me that it has to be more obscure than taro...
[CdM] Jicama? No - there is at least one non-obscure family of root vegetable plants that has not been mentioned at all.
Well, there are bulbs -- garlic, etc. -- but it seems to me that all the non-obscure ones would also be in U.K. supermarkets. So I am very confused...
daikon radish?
[flerdle] daikon radish? No - Audience gets rather agitated at CdM's musings.
Lotus roots?
Vidalia Onion?
[Raak] Lotus roots? No
[CdM] Vidalia Onion? No Disappointed mumblings from audience
Some kind of Allium?
[Néa] Some kind of Allium? YES - Cheers from the audience
Ramps?
[Raak] Ramps? No The audience leans forward in anticipation
Elephant Garlic?
Vidalia?
Is it known by different names in different countries (eg UK/USA)?
[Projoy] Elephant Garlic? YES Tumultuous applause
[Dandalf and flerdle] See above.
What with everyone not thinking about elephants for a day or two, and 30 seconds of Chris Beardshaw at a garlic farm that I saw on TV last week, it seemed the obvious option.
Well, whaddya know? I spend hours on flerdle's one patiently exploring every angle, and about 10 minutes making a random guess on this one, and win...

Anyway, here's an ANIMAL/ABSTRACT...
One word answer?
Human animal?
Does it begin with elephant?
Wildebeest migration?
[Tuj] One word answer, NO
[Dandalf] human? NO
[CdM] elephants involved in any form? NO
[flerdle] Herds of Wildebeeste sweeping majestically...? NO
Mammalian animal?
[Dandalf] Mammal? YES
A feline?
You didn't tee a puddy tat
[Tuj] feline? NO
On further consideration, the best answer to the Human Animal question is YES and NO.
Homo florensis hobbitus?
Fictional?
[Raak] Hobbitses? NO, we hates hobbitses
[Tuj] Fictional? YES
A specific fictional character?
Vampire?
[Tuj] specific fictional character - YES
[Ig] vampire? NO
From a book?
[Tuj] From a book, YEEES *notable lack of applause from audience*
Has it appeared in other media other than books?
[Ink] Other media? YES
Begins with a P?
Different tack ;)
Mr Spock?
[Tuj] Begins with a P? NO
[Phil] Mr Spock? ILLOGICAL! er, I mean NO
Cartoon character?
Captain Haddock?
Extra-terrestrial?
[Dandalf] Cartoon character... least misleading is NO
[CdM] Capn. Haddock? NO
[Tuj] Extra-terrestrial? NO
PS. I'm not especially well today, so I may end up disappearing for sleeps.
A computer-animated character?
Is the other media that of film?
Get well soon Projoy!
[Raak] Computer animated, NO
[Tuj] Film? NO
Television?
A primate? (in zoological rather than religious sense!)
Does the character originate in oral story-telling?
[Tuj] TV? NO
[Dandalf] Primate? YES AND NO (see human above)
[Raak] Oral story telling? FUNDAMENTALLY NO
Comic Books?
[CdM] Comix? NO
Radio?
Male?
[Néa] Radio? NO
[Tuj] Male? YES!
A horse?
A horse, NO *an undercurrent of "oooh!" from the audience*
Does it appear in a song?
Someone who is known for riding a horse?
"An undercurrent of oooh", lovely.
A centaur?
Is it a talking character rather than an animal?
What I mean is Wind in the Willows and Watership Down have talking characters while Tarka the Otter is an animal (hopefully that made sense).
[Rosie] In a song? NO
[Tuj] Horse Rider? NO
[Raak] Centaur, NO
[Ink] Talking character, YES!
Donkey?
Balaam's donkey?
[Né] Donkey, NO *an encouraging burst of applause from the audience (and the sounds of some members animatedly disputing the answer)*
[Raak] Balaam's D? NO
* a kind audience member comes to the front and drops the "a" back into Néa's name.*
Incidentally, these answers about media types are coming up as NO because that's the least misleading answer. In fact this character has almost certainly appeared (but not originated) in all of the above mentioned.
Muffin the Mule?
[Phil] Muffin, NO
A quick summary:
This ANIMAL/ABSTRACT is both human and not. There is a donkey connection. It is a specific male mammalian fictional character that talks. It has almost certainly appeared in, but was not originated in, the following media: TV, cartoons, song, radio, comics, computer animation, oral storytelling, books.
It is not a hobbit, a vampire, a centaur, Mr Spock or Balaam's Donkey.
Bottom?
*cheers*
[Raak] And the same to you! YES. The words on the card are "Nick Bottom, the weaver, while possessed of the head of an ass". Technically, or so I understand, asses and donkeys are not quite the same thing (the latter being the domesticated variety).
[Projoy] As it happens, I've just been reading a book on biological nomenclature and popular imagination in 18th and 19th century Britain, which I must post of elsewhere.
The next item is MINERAL, VEGETABLE, and possibly also ANIMAL.
Does it occur naturally?
[Projoy] Does not occur naturally.
Bigger than an armchair?
An item of furniture?
[Tuj] Not bigger than an armchair.
[I] Not furniture
An item of clothing?
Electronic?
Defined by its function?
[Rosie] Not clothing.
[Tuj] Not electronic.
[Projoy] Not defined by its function.
Does it have a function?
[Projoy] Yes, it has a function.
Metallic?
Is the vegetable part processed like rubber or natural wood?
Is it something that can be made of different materials?
[Tuj] Not usually.
[Inkspot] On the whole, I would say no.
[Projoy] The mineral part can be.
Smaller than a toaster?
[Projoy] Smaller than a toaster.
Smaller than a pack of cards
Did it (or they) exist in 1938?
Even I didn't
[Projoy] Bigger than a pack of cards.
[Rosie] Existed in 1938.
Would it be found in the home?
Existed by 1900?
Stationery?
Is it a single unique item?
Anything to do with writing?
[Chalky] Yes, found in the home.
[Projoy] Yes, existed by 1900.
[Tuj] Not stationery.
[Inkspot] Not unique.
[Rosie] Nothing to do with writing.
Existed by 1800?
[Projoy] Yes, by 1800.
Is it generic item?
I would say a generic item (if that's the right term) is something like the wheel, a cup or a crown rather than an attributable invention?
[Inkspot] Yes, a generic item.
Does it have moving parts?
A container of some kind?
Spectacles?
[Projoy] No moving parts.
[Rosie] YES, partly.(Applause!)
[Chalky] Not spectacles.
Begins with a P?
[Tuj] (laughter from the audience at the double entendre) Does not begin with a pee.
Not a toliet is it?
Cuh!
[Tuj] Neither a toliet nor a toilet.
A handbag?
It is I, Rosie.
Usually made of plastic?
Was about to guess "pencil case", then looked at my last-but-one question.
[Rosie in drag] A HANDBAG???? No.
[Tuj] Can be plastic.
Saturday is the last day to get this, as I'm off for a week in the south of France Sunday morning.
Is there a food connection?
Is the mineral part glass?
Back in normal clothing.
[Projoy] Yes, a food connection.
[Rosie] (A sharp intake of breath) Not among civilised people. One has heard that they may do such things on the Continent.
Is the mineral china?
A gravy boat?
An appropriately snooty term.
[Inkspot] YES! (Almost always.)
[Rosie] No.
A cup of tea?
Oops - possibly also animal! (beef tea perhaps?)
A saucer?
[Tuj] A saucer is part of it.
[Dandalf] YES: a cup of tea. Actually, the words on the card are "a nice cup of tea", but that's close enough. (The possible animal part is the milk.)
Oh! just found out I'd won as I was away for weekend. (Kicks himself re milk, but no use crying etc.). Next is ABSTRACT with ANIMAL connections.
Begins with a P?
Hah!
Three-ring circus?
Is the animal human?
Human construct?
[Tuj]- P....? NO
[flerdle]- 0-0-0 circus? NO
[Rosie]- Human? Both human and non-human.
[CdM] HC? hmmmmm...I think YES.
Is it an action?
To do with the body?
[Inkspot]Not an action, but implies activity.
[Projoy]Only remotely to do with the body.
A condition?
A thought process?
Small pox?
[Projoy] Condition? Could be.
[Rosie] Thought Process? NO.
[Lib] Smallpox? Not a pox, whatever the size.
To do with emotion?
A person?
[Projoy] Emotion? NO
[Tuj]A person? NO
Bird flu?
Horse racing?
50-1
Any religious connection?
A bodily function?
Does it require human involvement?
Could someone define "human construct" please, I find these the marmite on toast of the game.
[Inkspot] Quick definition off the top of my head: something that could not exist without a conscious human mind. Others can now refine it: think of this as a wikidefinition.
[Lib] bird flu? NO
[Rosie]Horse Racing? NO (but audience breaks into applause)
[Tuj] NO religious connection
[INJ] Bodily function? NO
[Inkspot]Human involvement? YES
Is the word "horse" in the answer?
Is it a sporting activity?
Hunting?
[Tuj] No horse.
[Kim] Not a sporting activity, though one of the words on the card could be related to sports.
[Rosie] Not hunting.
Is the word 'race' on the card?
[CdM] YES (tumultous applause! Some murmuring that Dandalf gave the game away.)
A Caucus Race?
A one-man race?
Three legged race?
(The) Rat Race?
The human race?
A game face?
[Rosie] The Rat Race YES Well done! [Others} See above.
arrow_circle_down
Want to play? Online Crescenteering lives on at Discord