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AVMA Take 2
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Yes, it's another round of that classic guessing game - Animal, Vegetable, Mineral, Abstract [or any combination thereof]. This effort - '03/'04 should address any queries, but then again, may just serve to confuse and baffle which some might say is the point of the game. Patience, integrity and a decent search engine may be useful ....
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A geographical feature?
Does the answer involve damming?
[CdM] Boffinology? - YES *considerable audience applause*
[Raak] Geography? - NO
[Dujon] Dam your eyes? - NO (where did that one come from?)
A scientific law or theory?
Related to theoretical physics?
Related to applied physics?
Completely unrelated to physics?
[jim] law/theory? - NO
[CdM] Theoretical? - YES
[Projoy] Applicable? - YES
[GL] Unrelated? - I think you can guess this one;-) - NO
Does this have to do with standard weights and measures?
[Raak] Weights and Measures? - NO (well, actually it has got quite a lot to do with them, but not in a helpful way)
Might we poor souls who aren't very scientific have actually heard of this?
Rephrase: Is it a phrase or saying that is in common usage?
[Spangle] Well known to us poor non-scientists? - YES (I promise you'll know this). As to the rephrase, I wouldn't really call it a phrase or saying, but it is in common usage.
Does it have to do with levers?
[Raak] Momentous? - NO
Does the word Principle appear on the card?
[CdM] You should know by now that I'm completely unprincipled, so: NO
Does the word Power appear on the card?
[GL] Powerful? - NO
Electrical?
[Software] Electric? - NO
A summary
OK, it’s a non-fictional unique scientific human concept, but not a law or theory. It’s related to Physics, both theoretical and applied. The mineral connection is partly, but not predominantly to stone. It has nothing to do with electricity, levers, weights & measures (with some caveats – as a clue, I would say that you can draw a tenuous connection to an awful lot of things if you put your mind to it). There are 6 words on the card, one of which starts with P, the first word being the definite article – I will not insist on your getting the exact words. None of these words is a number nor a superlative.
It is not an action, nor is it culturally specific, nor to do with geography.

So, if it’s not a law or a theory but is a scientific human concept, what is it?

The periodic table of the elements?
Not really physics, but connected, and it fits the pattern of words.
Fallait y penser
[jim] Indeed yes. The periodic table of the elements it is
No-one asked the Chemistry question, but I couldn't really say it was not related to Physics.

Here, have this glowing transuranic baton before it disappears.


Takes glowing thingy with some caution
My hair is falling out fast enough as it is, thankyou. No, the physics thing was definitely the right call. It's amazing how misleading one can end up being--completely unintentionally--by simply answering the questions as asked.

Anyway, let's have a nice ANIMAL/ABSTRACT.

Is the animal element human?
[Jim] Many of us will sympathise with that. I've gotten myself terribly tied in knots before now, just trying to say "yes" or "no" truthfully.
Is the answer a fictional character?
[jim, Kim] I know exactly how that feels, I remember trying to decide if Jupiter was flammable.
Unique?
[Kim] Human: YES
[GL] Fictional character: YES
[INJ] Unique: YES

Well, it doesn't look like this is going to take long.

Related to Harry Potter?
Male?
[GL] "Is Jupiter Flammable?" There must be scholarly philosophical articles written on that very question.
[Raak] Potter: NO (phew!)
[GL] Male: YES
In a work originally published post 1899 CE?
Originally in written fiction?
Narrowing frighteningly fast
[INJ] Post 1899: YES
[Raak] Written: YES
Biggles?
Was the fiction written by a British author?
[Raak] Several, they generally conclude that there isn't enough oxygen (or mass if you want to use fusion to light it) but if you could provide that, then it would be.
An eponymous character?
[GL] British: NO
[INJ] Eponymous: NO (that is, there are many things named after this character, but the book in which he originally appears isn't.)
Raffles?
[Software] Raffles: NO
In a work originally published prior to 1999 CE?
[GL] Pre 1999: YES
Was the author American?
In a work originally published in English?
[Raak] American: YES
[CdM] In English: YES
Originally in a cartoon/graphic work?
[INJ] Cartoon: NO
Science fiction?
Would the creator of this character be blessed with a name that relates to the provision of particular goods and services?
Did this character appear in more than one book?
Is this character under the age of 20?
[Raak] Science fiction: NO
[Dujon] Service industry: NO
[CdM] Multiple books: As far as I know, NO. He's mentioned in other works, but the only book I know of that he actually appears in is a stand-alone.
[Spangle] Under 20: NO
Is the work based in a war zone?
Sorry, missed one
[Raak] Biggles: NO (you might have been able to infer this from other answers)
[INJ] War games: NO, it isn't Catch-22 :)
Oh dear, that's a major, major disappointment!
Sports connection?
[Software] Sporty: NO
"Other works" = film?
Written between 1950 & 1970?
[Phil] Film: That's not what I had in mind when I said it, but the original written work has been transferred to the silver screen.
[INJ] 1950-1970: YES
In children's literature?
[CdM] Kid stuff: NO
Holden Caulfield?
Getting the guess out of the way.
[INJ] Lousy...: NO (isn't he a "goddam minor"?)
Written in the sixties?
Did the book win a prize?
Yes, I missed Spangle's question. Also, of course, there has never been a film.
[Projoy] 60s: Mostly NO.
[INJ] Prize: YES
Was it the author's only published novel?
Does the book cover a span of several years (say, more than a decade)?
[INJ] The one and only: YES
[CdM] Decade plus: NO
Did the character share his name with a popular beat combo?
Give or take a letter.
[INJ] Popular beat combo: YES
If you don't put us out of our misery soon, you're going to get gazumped, and I for one will laugh :)
There are still at least 2 possible answers - even if my suspicions are correct.
Clarification
Actually I'm taking "give or take a letter" to mean "give or take a letter plus the definite article" in my answer to the previous.
Boo Radley?
Well, I know it's bad form to have 2 goes in a row, but it is over 24 hours since the last one. Assuming I'm heading in the right direction I should like to point out the existence of 'The Tom Robinson Band' and bands called 'Atticus Finch' and 'Scout', not to mention a singer called 'Jem'.
We have a winner
[INJ] YES! It is Arthur "Boo" Radley from To Kill a Mockingbird. A pale figure emerges blinking into the light and slips a baton into your hand before vanishing.
Your point is taken, although you could probably find a band called just about anything if you looked. I suppose I'm the right age and nationality to immediately think of The Boo Radleys if TKAM and bands come up together.
[jim] Sorry if that sounded like a complaint - I was thinking of The Boo Radleys as well when I asked the question (plus Tom Robinson in my comment afterwards). The rest were as a result of googling.
Anyway, since it's me again we'll try not to be too tricky. This next one is VEGETABLE with ABSTRACT connections
Is the vegetable wood?
Is this a well-known phrase or saying?
Edible?
[GL] Woody? - Mostly YES *some applause and a few chuckles in the audience*
[Spangle] Phrase or saying? - NO (not that you won't have seen or heard the words on the card many times)
[CdM] Edible? - NO (or at least, almost entirely No)
Newton's apple tree?
Unique?
A religious reference?
Related to the Occult?
Related to Christmas?
[irach] Newtonian? - NO
[CdM] Only one? - YES
[Dujon] Religious? - NO
[GL] Wooooo? - NO
[Raak] Yule-y? - NO
Toaster < Words on Card < Telephone Box?
I'm a bit embarrassed given we have ladies present, but does this unique item have some sort of phallic symbolism (real or imagined)?
[CdM] Toaster < telephone box < Words on Card
[Dujon] Ooo-er Missus? - NO *a few chuckles*
Sherwood Forest?
Wow!
Hit the bullseye! Sherwood Forest it is.
One baton disguised as a quarter-staff handed on.
For a while there I couldn't see the forest for the trees ... The next one is simply ANIMAL
The Conservative Party?
Human?
[FGZstar] Good answer, but no.
[Gusset Login] Yes, human.
Mammalian?
[FGZstar] Human, so, yes mammalian.
Alive?
More than one human?
Famous?
[ImNotJohn] Dead as a doornail.
[Spangle] One human.
[Softers] Yes, famous.
Was alive in the 20th century?
A scientist?
Male?
[Raak] Not alive in the 20th century
[jim] Not a scientist
[Spangle] Yes, male.
Connected with the arts?
[ImNotJohn] The arts were one of the things he was known for.
European?
[Software] Yes, European.
A writer?
[ImNotJohn] Yes, a writer.
British?
[jim] Yes, a British writer.
Warm Blooded?
Born before 1800?
[all] Warm-blooded when he was alive, yes.
[Gusset Login] Born after 1800.
Popular novelist?
Known in other fields as well?
Apart from writing
[Software] Not a novelist.
[ImNotJohn] Known for at least one other field apart from writing.
Benjamine Disraeli?
[FGStar] Not Disraeli (but quite coincidentally all the letters in the last name of the person on the card are contained in "Disraeli"- HUGE HINT!)
Edward Lear?
[Raak] Right on. Edward Lear it is.
A runcible spoon in lieu of the traditional baton is handed over to Raak.
Begins with a...
...oh hang on, I'll come back later.
Looking for a 'P', Tuj? I've left a few for you; down the hall and turn left.
There was an old man of Morn. Crescent
Who received a mysterious present
"'Tis
MINERAL!" he said
And nodded his head
That puzzling old man of Morn. Crescent.
Metal?
Begins with a P?
[INJ] Not metal.
[GL] Does not begin with a P.
Man-made?
Unique?
Liquid?
[Software] Hmm..."yes" is probably the less misleading answer.
[jim] There is only one.
[INJ] Not liquid.
Made of Stone?
[GL] *murmurings in the audience* No. Not made of stone.
Made of glass?
[Phil] Glass? Better not be. *laughter*
Used in a sporting context?
Plaster of Paris?
Geographic feature?
[INJ] Not sporting.
[FGZ*] Not PoP.
[CdM] Not geographic.
Is the answer on the card the name of a famous jewel?
[Dujon] *applause!* Spot on.
The Graff Pink?
Guessing at topicality
[Phil] Is that a reference to some royal betrothal? I haven't been following the news. Anyway, not the Pink 'Un.
The Koh-i-Noor?
[jim] Not the Koh-i-Noor.
A diamond?
[GL] Not a diamond.
:"The Star of India" sapphire?
[irach] Bollywood? No.
Is it a corundum?
[jim] It is a corundum.
Red or reddish?
[irach] Not red.
Was this a gem from Sri Lanka?
[Dujon] It is not known to be from Sri Lanka.
The sapphire in Kate Middleton'e engagement ring?
[FGZ*} Ah, is that her name? Having checked the latest news, I believe the corundum I have in mind is still in its traditional setting.
St. Edward's Sapphire?
[GL] The very one. Have this sapphire-headed sceptre.
[Raak] No, not royal. It broke the record for most expensive jewel this week.
That was unexpected. Let's go with a simple ANIMAL.
A simple human?
[Software] Human? Yes
[Software] Simple? I refuse to comment
Kate Middleton?
I think I'm getting the hang of this "news" thing.
[Raak] The Queen of the Future? No
Alive?
[Software] Alive? Not anymore
British?
Alive in the 20th century?
[Software] Brit? Yes
[Raak] C20? Yes
Writer?
[Software] Writer? No
Connected with the arts?
A political figure?
[INJ] Artsy? Yes
[Raaak] Politics? No
Entertainer?
[Software] Entertaining? Yes
An actor?
Michael Jackson?
Comic?
Female?
[INJ] Actor? Yes
[FGZ*] MJ? No
[Software] Comic? If you mean stand up comedian, then no.
[CdM] Girly? No
Has he won an Oscar?
[Raaak] Oscar? {Sounds of mirth from the Audience} No.
Better known from films rather than TV?
[INJ] Films > TV? No.
Norman Wisdom?
[Software] Sir Norman? No
Is he known for sitcom roles?
Did he die before the age of sixty?
Would half of an hour be an appropriate comment?
[Raaaak] Sitcom roles? He is known for a sitcom role but perhaps better known for other roles.
[CdM] Dead before Sixty? No
Hancock's Half Hour? No
Primarily known for roles on children's TV?
Sid James?
[INJ] Primarily known for Kids TV? It depends on your age and/or opinion of the programme. But possibly Yes.
[Software] Sid James? No
English?
Whovian?
[jim] English? Yes
[INJ] Related to Doctor Who? {Much applause from the audience that takes time to die down} Yes
Sylvester McCoy?
[Rak] Sylvester McCoy? Isn't English or Dead. So obviously, No.
Wurzel Gummidge?
Or rather Jon Pertwee.
[Software] Jon Pertwee? Yes! Have a sonic baton.
Who? me?
Well, well. Now I must think!

After due consideration: ANIMAL and VEGETABLE.

Is it unique?
Is the vegetable wood?
Is the animal alive?
A leather-covered writing desk?
Tuj - Unique? - NO
INJ - Wooden? - NO
GL - Alive? - NO
Raak - Bureau? - NO
Is it edible?
INJ - Edible - YES
Meat enclosed in bread?
Haggis, Neeps and Tatties?
A guess, since it's St Andrews day.
Raak - Ham sandwich? - NO
FGZ - Wee beastie? - NO
Does pie enter into the equation?
Culturally specific?
Meat enclosed in pastry?
GL - Pie? - YES
INJ - Non-universal? - YES, probably
Raak - Snake and Sidney - NO
Fish pie?
Shepherd's pie?
Spangle - Cod piece? - NO
FGZ - Spudlike? - NO
Is the answer the name of a dish?
Is pasta involved?
Is the animal part - meat?
Is it a custard pie?
INJ - Menu item? - YES
Raak - Italian? - NO
Spangle - Cow pie? - NO
GL - Laurel & Hardy? - NO
Is the animal part a dairy product?
Does the animal part include eggs?
INJ - Bovine? - Can be, YES
Raak - Fowl? - AFIK NO
*small voice*
I'm having a bit of difficulty understanding your replies as you seem to alter the question asked prior to responding, egs: 'cow pie' [I didn't ask that] 'bovine' and 'fowl', 'italian' etc. Sorry if this is the way this game should be played. Clearly, I'm not very good at it!
Chessecake?
That is, cheesecake?
Mind you, a chessecake would be interesting, with the chessemen made of plain and chocolate marzipan.
Raak - Cheesy? - NO
Spangle
Are you American?
Related to Christmas in any way?
FGZ - Seasonal? - YES
Mince Pie?
Phil - Yule fuel? - YES!

Phil has it! I therefore hand over the cracker-shaped baton.


Ooops!!!
Multiple and profuse apologies for my recent absence from this game. I offer no excuses, only reasons, which are too diverse and manifold to detail at this time.

The challenge I set is ANIMAL

human?
Alive?
Unique?
One of the man-eating sharks of Sharm el-Sheikh?
[INJ] Human? NO
[GL] Alive? YES and NO is the most correct answer I can give
[CdM] Unique? NO (which explains the previous answer)
[jim] Sharm-el-Shark? NO
Avian?
[INJ] Avian? NO
Do people eat these animals?
A sea anemone?
A cellular construct?
Aquatic?
Do the words on the card designate a particular species?
Part of an animal?
[Raak] Do people eat them? YES
[FGZ] Anemone? NO
[Dujon] Cellular construct? NO
[CdM] A species? YES *applause*
[Spangle] Part of an animal? NO
Crustacean?
Mammalian?
*points at GL's question*
Aquatic?
Domesticated?
Reindeer?
Christmassy?
[GL] Aquatic? YES *Applause!!* and apologies for a disgraceful oversight
[Spangle] Crustacean? NO
[Raak] Thanks for pointing :-)
[GL] Aquatic? HELL YES *More applause (& laughter at Phil for his stupidity)* ;-)
[INJ] Domesticated? NO
[GL] Reindeer? NO
[Raak] Christmassy? Ghastly word, but NO
Are they likely to be served at a sushi restaurant?
[CdM] Sushi-susceptible? NO
Regularly found in a UK fish market?
*points at own question*
:)
Found on the menu at Phil's pub?
Blue Whale?
Oh gosh, I'm at it again.
[jim] Very sorry. Mammalian? YES *applause*
[INJ] UK fish marketable? NO
[Raak] Cooked my me? NO *chuckles*
[GL] Blue Whale? NO
Porpoise?
Saltwater mammal?
Tuna friendly dolphin?
Otter?
[CdM] Porpoise? NO
[Spangle] Saltwater? YES
[GL] Amicable dolphin? NO
[Raak] Otter? NO
Seal?
[Software] Seal? NO
Does it look like a fish?
You know, in the way that dolphins, whales, and sharks do and otters and seals don't.
Walrus?
Is the name of this beastie related to an African plain dwelling carnivore?
[Raak] vaguely fishy in appearance? YES-ish
[irach] I am the Walrus? NO
*some interesting whispers between audience members*
[Dujon] nominally similar to African wotsit? NO (presuming there isn't some obscure African creature I don't know about)
Sea Lion?
Manatee?
Reminds me of a song..
Du-gong, Du-gong, it's the cow of the see-hee-heeee
Du-gong, Du-gong, also known as the manatee!
[Spangle] Sea lion? NO (I suspect that was what Dujon was driving at)
[FGZ] Manatee? NO
On reflection, perhaps Gusset Login's "Blue Whale?" question deserved a ripple of applause.
Penguin?
Narwhal?
Sperm whale?
Is the colouring of this mammal generally accepted as being black and white?
[Phil] Your earlier suspicion was correct. :)
from the Cetacea group/order?
[Phil, Dujon] Clearly obfuscation is the way forward in this game. I'll learn :^)
[Raak] Penguin? NO
[CdM] Sperm Whale? NO
[Dujon] Geordie mammal? NO
[Spangle] Cetacea? YES

And finally, [irach] Narwhal? YES
One spiral, 6-foot long baton passed to irach
This one is just ANIMAL as well.
Human?
[Software] Yes, human.
Alive?
[Raak] Dead as a doornail.
Did death occur in the last century 1910-2010?
[Spangle] Yes, the person died between 1910-2010.
Winston Churchill?
I'm just gonna jump right in with a punt.
British?
[FGZStar] That was almost a candidate for the start of a very dirty limerick.
[FGZStar] Not Churchill.
[jim] Not British
Male?
[Raak] Yes, male.
Between 1960 and 2010 (death occurrence)?
[Spangle] No, his death did not occur between 1960-2010.
Russian?
[Spangle] (your earlier comment in the previous game) Of course!
Connected with the arts?
American?
[Dujon] Nyet. Not Russian.
[jim] Not artsy-fartsy
[Software] Not a Yank.
Hitler?
[Gusset Login] Nein. Nicht Herr Hitler.
Military?
from the southern hemisphere?
[Software] Not military.
[FGZstar] Not from the Southern hemisphere, but with strong connections to it.
Roald Amundsen?
[jim] Roald Amundsen it is!
A flagpole baton plucked from the South Pole handed over to jim.
Well. A lucky guess indeed, though I admit I had quite a broad hint. Pulls on padded gloves before taking baton
OK, I am thinking of a mineral, probably with elements of animal and vegetable depending on definition.
Seasonal?
A fossil?
[Software] Start off with a good one, why don't you. I should say YES, seasonal in at least one sense of the word, but if you mean specifically connected with the festive season, NO.
[irach] Not a fossil.
Naturally occuring?
Snowman?
[Dujon] Au naturel: I think the best answer I can give to that is "mostly".
[GL] Frosty: NO.
Connected to a coastline?
Present solely during winter?
[irach] Littoral: NO (at least, not as I understand "connected").
[FGZstar] Wintry: NO.
A geographical feature?
A certain type of weather pattern?
As in the wrong type of snow, although obviously not snow as that would be wintry.
Related to Summer?
[Spangle] Not a geographical feature.
[FGZstar] Not a certain type of weather pattern.
[GL] Not (specifically) related to summer.
Coastline related?
Possibly a portable book stand for use whilst reading on a beach?
Specific to a particular country or culture?
[FGZstar] Not coastline related.
[CdM] Not culture specific.
Man made?
[Software] Mostly NOT man-made. Though many would say the bit that is is extremely significant.
Unique?
[CdM] YES, unique.
bigger than a toaster?
Smaller than a phonebox?
[Phil] YES, bigger than a toaster.
[GL] Not smaller than a phonebox.
Is there a sporting connection?
[CdM] No specific sporting connection.
Movable?
[Software] I would have to say yes, it is moveable, though moving it in the sense I take you to mean would be impractical.
Is it something that relates to water?
seismic?
Anything to do with the weather?
[nfras] I would have to say that yes, it relates to water.
[Software] Not seismic.
[Projoy] Yes, it has to do with the weather.
Global freezing?
Is it a large swirly wind storm of some type?
The Day After Tomorrow?
Bigger than a terraced house?
[Dujon] Not global freezing.
[nfras] Not a storm.
[FGZstar] Not the day after tomorrow, or "The Day After Tomorrow".
[Projoy] Yes, bigger than a terraced house.
Would you find it (roughly) at ground level?
[Projoy] Yes, you would find it at ground level, although it certainly isn't exclusively found there.
Does it move?
Is the mineral rock?
[Projoy] Yes, it moves.
[Rosie] No, not rock.
Carbon dioxide?
Would you find it out at sea?
[Rosie] Not carbon dioxide, although CO2 is involved.
[Projoy] Yes, you would find it out at sea, although again not exclusively so.
icy?
The atmosphere?
[Software] It contains ice, yes.
[Projoy]YES! It is the Earth's atmosphere. One attractive combination baton-barometer passes on to Projoy.
Jolly dee. Wasn't expecting that to be it. (racks brains) um... OK, here's an ABSTRACT.
Is it an emotion?
A human proclivity?
"Air on a G String" by JS Bach?
The feeling you get when you get that feeling?
[GL] Emotion? NO
[Dujon] Human proclivity? ARGUABLY
[irach] Happiness is...? NO
[Raak] The feeling? NO
Is it common?
[Software] Common? *audience laughter* YES.
Does it depend on human volition?
Medical?
A human action?
[CdM] Human volition? YES
[Spangle] Medical? NO
[Raak] Something folks do? YES
Do non-humans also do this?
Could it be discussed on Sesame Street?
Without unprecedented numbers of complaints, obviously.
Might one reasonably do this in the middle of Trafalgar Square?
Cleaning?
[CdM] Non-human activity? NO
[GL] Sesame Street? UNLIKELY (altho complaints would be highly unlikely if it were)
[Raak] Do-able under Nelson's gaze? YES, but in practice unlikely.
[FGZstar] Cleaning? NO
Does it involve talking?
[Raak] Discursible? NOT OF NECESSITY.
(But in practice, highly likely)
Does it involve more than one person?
Is it culture-specific?
Googling?
[FGZstar] More than one person? YES, almost inevitably
[CdM] Culture-specific? NO
[Spangle] Googling? NO
Science-related?
Does this involve the lack of one of the accepted five senses?
[CdM] Sciencey? NO
[Dujon] Sensory deprivation? NO
Is it possible to do this alone?
A sing-along?
[FGZstar] I doubt this is a helpful answer, but YES, strictly this is possible.
[Software] Singalonga? NO
a game?
[Spangle] A game? NO
Arty?
Is this one of the seven deadly sins?
Is this all of the seven deadly sins?
Is this original sin?
Is this seven original sins?
[CdM] Arty? *hollow laughter from audience* NO
[CdM et al] Sin City? NO, none of the above.
So, so far we have that it's a common human activity that is not particularly taboo. More than one person typically does it. For free I will volunteer that there are two words on the card.
Is this - ahem - enjoyable?
Group hug?
[Spangle] Pleasurable? I would say NO for those directly involved.
[Software] Group hug? *much audience laughter* NO.
Slagging off?
Does it involve physical contact?
[Software] Slagging off? NO
[Spangle] Physical Contact? NO
Public Execution?
Does it entail embarrassment or humiliation?
Does it involve barking up the wrong tree?
[FGZstar] Tyburn Jig etc.? NO
[CdM] Humiliation? NOT OF NECESSITY, tho it might.
[Spangle] Barking up the wrong tree? NO
Does this activity typically have a (non-participating) audience?
[CdM] Has an audience? NO, if you mean it's done in one go with the audience in the same room, or if it's broadcast in one go to people who give this their attention for a specific fixed amount of time. In a much broader sense it can have a non-participating audience, tho this is not necessarily entailed in the concept.
Is the descritpion on the card one of a ploy which many television productions use?
Do all, or almost all, humans do this?
Getting divorced?
[Dujon] ploy by TV producers? ARGUABLY, altho I doubt the word "ploy" would be the right one in that case, and it's certainly not something exclusive to TV producers.
[CdM] All/Vast majority of humans do it? I honestly don't know and am not sure how one would find this out. That's a surprisingly hard question. I suspect there are defensible YES and NO answers, and I would expect you to have a better idea than me.
[all] Sorry these answers are so messy. It's just that we don't quite seem to have hit on the perfect line of questioning so far!
[Spangle, simulposted] Nisi to not see you? NO
Does this interplay constitute some form of contract?
[Spangle] NO, not a contract.
Would this constitute news if a famous person was involved?
[FGZstar] News/famous? It MIGHT BE news if a famous person were involved, depending on the circs. Equally, it might be news if no famous person were involved.
Is it related to communication?
Keep on trying these "is it related to..." questions and you'll probably hit on it.
[INJ] Comms? NO, except in the very broad ways suggested above.
Does it involve conflict?
Hey, I'm just trying to catch up here.
[INJ] Involves conflict? IT CERTAINLY CAN DO, and often does, but not of necessity.
Student Protest?
Or any form of protest?
[FGZstar] Student Protest? NO *a sudden enthusiastic burst of applause from the audience*
Cutting spending?
Related to industrial disputes?
From 0-60 in 4 hours
[INJ] CAN BE related to industrial disputes.
[Spangle] Congratulations on that logical leap, since YES, the words on the card are "budget cutting"! For a while there I thought that I'd made a silly choice, but then in you stormed. I'm afraid that the resource situation means there isn't a baton to pass over, so have this bread roll instead.
(I'm still not sure what would have been an appropriate answer to CdM's "does almost everyone do this?" question. In terms of personal budgeting, I guess that most of us do do it, but it's hard to say whether the degree of formality/prior planning involved means that sort of thing counts more as belt-tightening rather than budget cutting. Still puzzled!)
This is unexpected. I am unable to visit here on a regular basis. Would somebody else like to step in? Please.
I nominate FGZstar or INJ, who did most of the heavy lifting there.
Oh, all right then
Well, since I was away for almost all of that, I think Projoy is overly kind, but in the interests of keeping the game going:
This is ABSTRACT or ANIMAL with VEGETABLE connections. It doesn't matter much how you parse that, it still works.
Anything to do with the human race?
Bugger it! Why must I always arrive late!
Is the tractor animal a mule?
[FGZstar] Oh, the humanity? - YES
[CdM] Ass
[CdM] Oh, I suppose you want a formal answer - Mule-related? - NO
Fictional?
[Projoy] Made-up? - NO
Pork barrel politics?
[irach] Normal politics? - NO (but I could make it 'Yes' for a small fee)
Is the vegetable connection wood?
[Projoy] Woody? - NO
Is the vegetable connection edible?
[CdM] edible vegetable? - YES
The carrot and stick approach?
Is the vegetable connection a vegetable?
[FGZstar] Carrot & Stick? Nice guess, but, NO
[Projoy] Really vegetably vegetable? - YES
Does it begin with pea?
[CdM] pea? - NO, but one of the words on the card begins with a 'p'
One specific type of vegetable?
Mr Potato Head?
[Projoy] Specific veg? - YES
[FGZstar] Mr Potato Head? - NO *some audience applause*
A root vegetable?
A cauliflower ear?
Mrs Potato Head?
[Projoy] Hmm - not sure what you're asking, so I'll answer both possibilities
Is the subject on the card 'A Root Vegetable'? - NO
Is the vegetable connection specifically to a root vegetable? - YES
[Raak] Cauli lug? - NO
[FGZstar] Distaff potato? - NO (there wasn't that much applause)
Knowing your onions?
A thingy-shaped turnip?
Or a turnip-shaped thingy?
Do the words Swedish and Potato appear on the card?
[Raak] Alliology? - NO
[Projoy] Mr Turnip......? - NO
[Dujon] Potatis? - NO and YES (*about the same amount of applause as FGZstar got*)
A chip on the shoulder?
Go back and check previous answers
[Software] messy eater? - NO
Something to do with potatoes?
[Projoy] Potatoist? - YES
(I thought it was clear enough, but my reply to Dujon meant that the word 'potato' does appear on the card - so that's the word that begins with 'p')
Is it related to a particular country?
A couch potato?
(I was just double-checking)
Well, that was relatively painless
We have a winner! The answer is A Couch Potato

[Projoy] I'm not going to get up and hand you the baton, you can come over here and get it.


VEGETABLE or MINERAL or ABSTRACT
A "thing-a-ma-bob", or a related "doo-hickey" or a " thing-a-ma-jig"?
Whatever you may call it...
[irach] None of those.
An award of some kind?
[INJ] Award? NO *applause* (there are cases, tho, where it might be thought of as an award).
Beginning with "pea"?
Booby Prize?
[Software] P or pea-headed? NO
[FGZstar] Blue-Footed Bird Recognition? NO
When it's vegetable, is it a specific vegetable?
When it's vegetable, is it a flower?
[Raak] Specific veg? NOT REALLY
[INJ] Florid? NO.
Does it have to do with things underground?
[Raak] ...but to bury him? NO, nor things Underground, for that matter.
A (or the) wooden spoon?
*Please ignore that attempt* You've answered it already.
Is the mineral precious?
[FGZstar] Precious? NO
Is it related to entertainment or the arts?
[INJ] Entertainment/Arts? NO
Oh, well, actually, there is an arts/ents link, but not intrinsic.
A saying?
Is the category mutually exclusive?
So when vegetable, is it then neither animal nor mineral, and when animal, is it neither vegetable nor mineral, and when mineral, is it neither animal nor vegetable?
Is the mineral metal?
On FGZstar's query - ignoring the 'animal' (since that's not in the definition) may I rephrase as 'When it is regarded as physical, is it exclusively either vegetable or mineral?'
[FGZstar] Does that capture the essence?
[FGZstar via INJ] I have just applied that question to about five cases of The Answer that I can think of, and the answer for all of them was YES, so, I guess, TYPICALLY YES, based on a random sample.
Is the word "heart" on the card?
points North
A vegetarian menu?
[Raak] Heart of...? NO
[INJ] Nanook etc.? NO
[Spangle] Vege Diet? NO (I think someone set that once before).
Is the mineral metal?
Since subtlety isn't working...
Did you answer my last question?
[Software] Not a saying.
[INJ] Metal? NO (and nothing to do with magnetism. I thought you meant as in "[location x, and] points north")
Bugger
Sorry, Metal? YES, often!
Is the vegetable wood?
An award?
[Raak] Wood? YES, usually.
[Raak] Award? I refer the hon. gent. to my second answer in this round, or, to put it another way, NO.
Functional?
[CdM] Functional? YES
A spoon?
As in Wooden Spoon, Metal Spoon and in Spooning?
A domestic implement?
[FGZstar] THERE IS NO SPOON.
[INJ] Domestic? NO, in most cases.
When physical, is its primary function to be a symbol?
[Raak] Symbolic? I would have to say YES and NO, but YES for the case I immediately thought of, and probably more YES than NO overall. Probably. I think.
Anything to do with music?
[Raak] Music? In one case, YES, in others NO.
Is the wood in the form of paper?
[CdM] Papery? NO.
Would citizens of the morniverse be likely to own one?
[CdM] Not more likely to own one than the population at large. Perhaps most helpful to say that most cases of this can be owned by an individual.
string?
[FGZstar] String? NO
Could it be used in the preparation or consumption of food?
[FGZstar] Foody? NO (there is an edible case of this, but it it's not the one a person would first think of)
Is this a syndrome or medical condition?
[Spangle] Medical? NO.
The toaster dimensional question
[INJ] Typically smaller than a toaster by volume, and usually by dimension.
Is it used in the kitchen?
[Raak] Kitchen? NO (the only exception being the edible case, I guess).
Clue or summary required?
Is it tangible?
[FGZstar] Most cases of this are tangible, fewer are abstract.

Here's a roundup and a bit of extra info: This is something that can be vegetable (usually wood) or mineral (usually metal) or abstract. Two cases of this that I can think of have a music connection. Two different cases that I can think of are edible. There is one case, a different one again, where this might be thought of as an award. In that case, and another one again, it acts as a symbol. Nearly all non-abstract cases of this that I can think of are smaller than a toaster.

As you can see, different cases of this have different properties. Feel free to pick on a specific case to help you unfold the whole answer.
Does it have any moving parts?
This feels like we are having a category problem and once someone asks the right question it will go quite quickly - but I'm stuck.
As I say, maybe focus on one case rather than all.
[INJ] Moving Parts? NO - I can't think of a case of this that has moving parts! Hooray for straight answers. :)
Are there less than three words on the card?
[FGZstar] Fewer than 3 words? YES.
(PS. the edible cases are vegetable but not wooden!)
A one word answer?
Do you have a (physical) one of these?
[FGZstar] One word? YES, plus the indefinite article
[INJ] Do I have one? *checks* Hm. Apparently not any more. Wonder where it went?
Does one wear this?
Is it some form of protection?
[Spangle] Worn? NO
[INJ] Protection? NEARLY NO. One case of this is arguably for protection.
A charm?
[Charm] NO.
Is there writing on it?
Does an individual viewpoint contribute to the definition?
In other words could 2 different people look at the same object and disagree as to whether it was one of these?
I'm trying to think how I can follow your exhortation to focus on one case, I can't actually identify one case well enough to ask about it!
Is this a form of label or tag?
A container of some sort?
[Raak] Is there writing on it? NO.
[INJ] Could two people disagree? PROBABLY NOT, which is not to say that there aren't alternative words for this.
Well, you could ask me about the metal one, for instance, or the abstract one, or one of the wooden ones.
[Spangle] A label or tag? NO * a sprinkle of applause from a few audients*
[INJ] Container? NO
Does it serve a symbolic function?
[Raak] A Load of Symbolics? As above, two cases of this that I can think of have a symbolic function.
A grade?
Such as a grade of wood, gradings of fruit and vegetables, geades in class and grades of metal?
You Tak The Low Road
[FGZstar] A grade? NO.
A chip?
Please tell me if I'm completely up the wrong tree.
[FGZstar] An inspired guess, but NO (but you're by no means up the wrong tree).
Could it be used to hold information?
[FGZstar] Holds information? NO. * a pedantic throat clearing from one audience member, who is thinking of one specific case *
Following from FGZ*, is this a set of completely disparate things that happen to be referred to be the same word?
Are these for sale on Amazon?
[CdM] Disparate Things? YES *applause*, altho they do share a couple more properties than just the name.
[Raak] *checks* YES, you can buy at at least two types of this on Amazon.
Would one use this in the workplace?
Are they sometimes made of plastic?
[Spangle] YES and NO, depending. You could probably argue it either way for quite a few cases. Unlikely to help!
[Raak] Sometimes plastic? YEEES. I did google an example up of a plastic one, but certainly wouldn't have known that if I hadn't.
Can you find these in hardware stores?
[Raak] Hardware? I don't recall seeing one in a hardware store. Then again, I can't say I frequent hardware stores.
The wooden one - solid wood or a by-product of wood?
[Spangle] I'll pick one of the wooden ones, for which the answer is YES, solid wood.
Do people who have one usually make it themselves?
[Raak] Self-made? NO.
A wedge?
[FGzstar] A wedge? NO, but you are absolutely at the right level of generality.
A plinth?
This message will self-destruct in 36 hours
[Raak] Some day my...? NO, but again, the right level of generality

I'm going to be without net access for a week as of late Thurs evening, so perhaps I can do a summary + hints in case it jogs your thoughts. We are looking for the one-word name for a set of mainly functional objects, (at the same level of generality as "chip" or "wedge"). They can be metal or wood. There are a couple other "vegetable" types which are not wood. All of these are typically smaller than a toaster by volume. There is an abstract type too. You could put The Answer into an Amazon search and be offered a couple of types of this. One of the wooden types of this is all wood and has a musical connection. The metal type has a symbolic function.
Does the word begin with a vowel?
... apart from the indefinite article, naturally
[Spangle] Vowelish? NO.
A figurehead?
[Raak] Figurehead? NO. Think smaller.
(I have found fibreglass and plastic examples of this on further research)
A bookend?
WRT the wooden/musical one - do you hit it?
A Wh
A Whistle?
You're totally gonna kick yourselves and everything.
[Raak] And the murderer was...? NO
[INJ] Do you hit it? NO
[FGZstar] Just purse your lips? NO
A pipe?
[FGZstar] A pipe? NO *applause*
Is this a model or miniature of something?
Is it basically cylindrical in shape?
A drum?
Do most people have one of these?
[Spangle] Model/miniature? NO
[INJ] Basically cylindrical? YES *applause*, most cases are cylindrical, if you're not too Platonic about it.
[FGZstar] A drum? NO
[Raak] Do most people have one? NO.
A recorder? or a flute?
[FGZstar] Recorder? Flute? NO (not a musical instrument per se, in fact).

I realise this is probably a slightly annoying one (altho you will kick yourselves) but can I just say how gratified I am by the ingenuity of the guesses? Thank you.
A stick?
[FGZstar] Stick? OF SORTS! *tumultuous applause, and stirrings of anticipation for the endgame*
A crutch?
A drumstick?
[INJ] Item best used in pairs? NO
[FGZstar] Drumstick? NO (there's no animal type of this)

Well, about five more hours before I might have to hand this over.
Does the letter string 'stick' appear on the card?
Well, the only wooden, sticky, musical things that aren't instruments that I can think of are a baton (disqualified because they come in animal types and aren't obviously abstract) and the pole that some C18 & 19 conductors would use to beat time.
Oh and I'm quite glad my previous guess was wrong, now I start to think of the 'edible' case.
[INJ] In that case, as we might disagree on the definition and you might have guessed it otherwise, I think it only fair to hand over the BATON to you, hoping to be enlightened about the animal case! The cases of which I was thinking are the wooden (or sometimes, apparently, fibreglass) conductor's baton, the military baton, the metal relay baton, the well-known small loaf, carrot batons and police batons, plus of course the abstract Baton Sinister from heraldry. Challenging subject, but I enjoyed attempting something a bit more hard to get hold of, as it were. Apols to anyone else who had foregone that guess on non-animal grounds, too.
They make them in bone and ivory
Anyway, moving on - Let's have a nice simple ANIMAL
An amoeba?
They don't come much simpler than that.
A duck-billed platypus?
[Raak] amoebic? - NO (not quite that simple)
[irach] monotremic? - NO (but I had been thinking about that, so you were close to the quickest ever win)
Reptilian?
[ImNotJohn] Great minds think alike; what more can I say?
Extinct?
Human?
[Raak] Gone forever - NO *some audience reaction*
[GL] Human? - NO
Coelacanth?
[jim] Latimeria chalumnae? - NO
Actually, I think I set that a few years ago.
Mammal?
[Software] Mammalian? - NO
*coughs and gestures towards irach's last question*
Endangered?
Ah yes, sorry
[irach] Reptilian? - YES
[Raak] Endangered? - YES *applause*
the audience were rather helpful earlier on, but they're a fair-minded lot
Software is hereby awarded one free guess.
A sea turtle?
Said this was going to be simple
[FGZstar] Chelonioidiac? - NO *further applause*
A tuatara?
[Raak] Tuatara? - Happy to admit I had to look that one up, from which I assume you can guess that the answer is NO
A Komodo Dragon?
[irach] Varanidaeic? - NO
Did Darwin likely see them during his voyages?
Would one fit in a toaster (perhaps coiled up)?
[irach] Darwinian? - YES! - (to all intents and purposes)*applause*
[Raak] Pop-uppable? - NO *some audience laughter*
Galápagos giant tortoise (Chelonoidis nigra), which ironically is genus Chelonoidis, but not in Family Chelonidae?
Nearly there
[irach] Galapagos Giant Tortoise? - YES - but curiously enough, none of those words are on the card (*the audience are shuffling towards the exit*)
"Harriet of Australia Zoo" fame?
[irach] Hattie? - Sorry, never heard of her, so NO
Lonesome George?
There, that wasn't so hard
We have a winner! The words on the card are: 'Lonesome George': probably the last Pinta Island giant tortoise.
I'll send him over with the baton.
This is gonna be a tricky one
Abstract, with Animal connections.
Sorry, forgot to include Mineral connections also
A saying or phrase?
[irach] adage? NO
Connected with a work of fiction?
Fictitious? NO
A human concept?
A human concept? Erm, not sure how to answer this one. The animal connection is human, and so I would say YES.
Connected to science?
Is the mineral connection metal?
[CdM] Science-y? There is definitely a major connection, but you need to look further than just the thought of science.
[INJ] Metallic? YES, but not exclusively

LOOK AT THIS! Erm.. okay, minor f*** up, realised that vegetable also comes into this. To make up for this, I shall give you a clue. This whole thing is related to heat and oxygen produced by one reaction.
Internal Combuxtion?
That is combustion...
Photosynthesis?
Combustion? YES, but this is not the only rection involved, and there is another, seperate reaction
Photosynthesis? NO
You need to back up a bit, as my clue was maybe a bit too close up for now. It will help you when you are closer to the answer.
Is the (human) animal a specific human?
Not a specific human, but a specific group.
Pertaining to only one of the sexes?
Are dams involved?
[irach] Single-sex? No.
[Dujon] Dammit!? No.
Is the combustion reference figurative?
Does this relate to a visible phenomenon?
A specific nation?
[Rosie] Figurative Combustion? NO, literal
[INJ] Visible phenomenon? If you are thinking northern lights, then no.
[SW] Specific Nation? No, even smaller than that.
Artistic?
(also, could you actually answer INJ's question? :-) )
[CdM] Artistic? No
Well, I wouldn't define it as a visible phenomenon.
Anything to do with ozone?
[irach] Ozone? NO
Anything involving Guy Fawkes?
Burn it all down? NO
Is the mineral connection a fossil fuel or derivative thereof?
Is this an industrial process?
[irach] Fossil Fuels? Yes, but this is not the only mineral connection.
[Raak] Industrial? NO
Smelting?
Is another mineral connection one of the states of water?
Human connection artisanal?
[Rosie] Smelty, smelty? NO, but metals are involved.
[irach] Water? YES, and in its liquid state
[Software] Artisanal? I'm not quite sure how you mean, but I can say that one artist that I know of is connected, but others are also connected. Please note that people are both directly and indirectly connected to this, but it will be easier if I refer to the people directly connected, because those are the ones I am able to confidently answer about.
Firing a steam engine?
Forgive me.
[Rosie] Light the Rocket? No. But you are close on one aspect...
Are the metals in direct contact with the water or an aqueous solution?
[irach] Not initially, although most of them end up in direct contact with water or an aqueous solution.
Is the water or aqueous solution saline?
Rocket science?
[irach] under the sea? NO
[SW] It's NOT rocket science.
Is one of the metals lead?
[irach] Lead balloon? NO
Does the metal ionise during the reaction that produces oxgen and heat?
The electrolysis of water?
You did say oxygen was produced.
[irach] I am not sure of the answer to that question, but I cna tell you that no radiation is involved.
[Rosie] Electrolysis? I like your thinking, but no.
Is this a means of propulsion?
[Raak] The combustion reaction is a means of propulsion, but the Oxygen-producing reaction has a self-explanatory purpose.
Propulsion of manned spacecraft?
Is the metal component a part of an actual chemical reaction that produces oxygen and heat, or merely a receptacle?
Anything to do with fireworks?
I'm thinking KNO3.
[Raak] To infinity... NO
[irach] The metal is certainly a reaction vessel, but I am not sure if it is present in the reaction, but I think it is.
[Rosie] Sparks will fly? NO
To do with projectile weapons?
[Raak] Fire? NO
Is / are the metal(s) in question found in Group III of Dmitri Mendeleev's Periodic Table?
[irach] Group III? I would presume some would be.
Are the objects propelled routine means of transport, eg. bus, train, car, plane?
[Rosie] Tranport? YES *Audience awakens from its slumber*
Propulsion of the mode of transport through a fluid (liquid or gaseous) matrix?
Fuel cells?
[irach] You've lost me completely. If that includes air, then yes.
[Raak] Eco-cell? NO
Hot air balloon?
A balloon of some other type?
A blimp or dirigible airship?
[SW,Raak,irach] Ballons, airships, etc... NO
"Those Magnificent Men in their Flying Machines"?
[irach] An aeroplane is involved, yes.
Parachute jump?
[SW] Jumper? NO
Hmm. This clearly hasn't captured our collective imagination, hence no questions for 12 days.
(FGZstar) How's about a summary of the conclusions to date and then the final flourish - offering up a tasty clue?
A ram-jet?
Let's see if I can re-capture your imaginations...

Abstract, with animal, vegetable and mineral connections,

This is NOT *deep breath*: A saying or phrase, fictitious, photosynthesis, connected to a specific sex or nation, involving dams, a visible phenomenon, artistic, related to ozone, anything to do with guy fawkes, an industrial process, smelting, firing a steam engine, involving salt water, rocket science, involving lead, electrolysis, the propulsion of manned spacecraft, fireworks, projectile weaponry, fuel cells, any type of balloon or a parachute jump.

However, it IS: A human concept, sort-of connected to science, involving metal, related to oxygen and heat produced by one reaction, including (but not exclusively) internal combustion, pertaining to a specific group of humans (at least one of which has artistic connections), resulting in the aforementioned metals being in contact with water, involving an oxygen-producing reaction which does not provide propulsion (and this reaction has a metal reaction vessel and does involve metals, which may be in group III of the periodic table) and importantly, this pertains to a propelled means of transport, more specifically an aeroplane.

Right, got all that? Good., because now you can have a clue:
Firstly, the cause of the second reaction (which is the main one in this case) is present in every airline safety demonstration. Secondly, there is only one specific airline and aircraft involved.
Blimey - OK, someone performing an electrolysis experiment onboard a BA Boeing 737, causing a fire to break out, the oxygen masks to drop and the 'plane to crash on the sea (don't worry, everyone got out fine)?
Well, strike a light!
*audience sits up, expectantly*
[Knobbly] You are actually quite close. this is a plane crash, however no electrolysis and not into the sea. Sadly no-one got out fine, or at all. I am looking for the name by which the plane crash is referred to. Oh, and no 737. There was fire, and oxygen masks did not drop, but the oxygen generator (for the masks) is the 'other' reaction.
Ah, ValuJet Flight 592
*Audience goes wild*
YES! I hand over this slightly charred baton.
Doh
Didn't think of the fact that I'd have to think of one...
I would like a go, though. It's very quiet here over the weekend, so I'll think of one before the end of tomorrow *subsides into thoughtful silence*
Ok, this is hopefully not a 4 week one...
Animal
Go!
Human?
[Raak] No.
A single individual?
[Raak] Yes.
Recently deceased?
Female?
Knut?
European?
In captivity?
Mammal?
Forget my last question - I hadn't read back carefully enough.
So much for my AVMA debut
[Dujon]Yes.
[GL] No.
[irach] Yes.
[INJ,CdM,INJ]Moot.
*Sporadic audience applause for irach for being too clever*
Actually, when I thought of it it wasn't very easy as he hadn't been news for years. How was I to know he'd go and die and make the papers again?
Thanks, Knobbly, but someone else will need to start the next one in my place. I am going to be away at a conference the next five days, and may not be able to log into mc5 as frequently as would be necessary to keep the game progressing.
I think Knobbly should have another go!
I wonder whether the choice of Knut was a massive coincidence, or whether Knobbly actually saw/heard some reference to Knut's death without being consciously aware of the fact.
To be honest, I also think knobbly should have another go, although I will admit that my original categorising of my one was flawed, but I was having trouble fitting it successfully into one main box.
Well, ok. This may not be very difficult, but it probably won't be in the news tomorrow.
This is an Animal. Let the guessing commence.
Human?
[INJ] No.
4 legs?
[Software]Yes, one in each corner.
A single individual?
[GL] An individual? No. Although there's only one in the picture in my head it could be any of them.
A deer of some kind?
Normally regarded as edible by humans?
Mammal?
Found wild in the UK?
[Dujon] Deer me, no.
[Rosie] Not normally considered edible.
[INJ] Mammal? Yes. *small ripple of applause*
[Raak] In UK? No.
A bear of any sort?
[Raak] No. I cant bear the tension. Oh dear. I apologise profusely and will hence just answer simply.
Bigger than a toaster?
[Raak]Larger than a toaster? Yes.
Kept as a pet? (By normal people)
[Rosie] No.
Extant?
Hoofed?
A Shetland Pony?
Thelwell cartoons come to mind.
[Raak] Extant - NO. Shouldn't be long now. *More sustained applause*
[INJ] Hooves, yes.
[Software] Not a pony.
An extinct species of horse?
A woolly Mammoth?
[Raak] Not a horse. Although distantly related I think there are closer extant relatives.
[FGZ] No, not a woolly mammoth.
Of the genus Bos, like an aurochs or wisent?
[irach] Bos? No.
Pyrenean Ibex ?
A litoptern?
[irach] Ibex? No
[Raak]Litoptern - No
An extinct camel or llama relative?
A brontothere?
[irach] Not a camelid.
[Raak]Nor a member of the Brontotheriidae, neither.
Rhinoceros-like?
[irach] Well, as you asked a subjective question I was going to say no, because I don't think it is; but I asked an impartial observer and they said it was, so - Rhinoceros-like? YES. *applause*
Stegosaurus?
An Irish Elk?
Unicorn?
[Rosie, INJ, Software] Thrice no.
A dinosaur of some kind?
Died out in the last hundred thousand years?
[GL, Rosie] Hoofed mammal!
[INJ] Less than 0.1 Mya? NO
Coelodonta or Stephanorhinus?
split hooves?
According to wikipedia we're down to a choice of about 220 possibles now ;-)
[FGZ] Neither of them.
[INJ] Is it a member of the order Artiodactyla? - No.
Does it have an ordinary English name?
Unlike "liptotern", "brontothere", or "madeupopodeaceae".
[Raak] It does not, to my knowledge, have a common name. Maybe we can give it one once it has been guessed.
Borissiakia?
Just cos I like the name
Just to confirm - you have answered that this is hoofed and does not have split hooves - I have to assume that means it has a single hoof like a horse, not claws or any other multi-part foot like a deer or elephant.
I notice that I automatically write 'hoofed', but 'hooves' - I'll have to follow that up, though I expect both will be acceptable.
[INJ] Not Borissiakia.
[INJ again] Yes, it does; although I'm getting a bit lost in hoof types. For one thing a deer is a hoofed mammal.
Of the family Brontotheriidae?
[FGZ] No, it still isn't.
Of the family Artiodactyls?
Does it have the letter string 'hipp' in its name?
(re deer: Yes, but a deer, like a cow, has split hooves.)
If you could still eat one, would it be kosher?
I don't think the answer will be particularly edifying, I just want to see you try to work it out :)
[GL] Artiodactyla? NO. Keep going, we're almost out of incorrect orders...
[INJ] No, the syllable 'hipp' appears nowhere in the binomial name, nor in the rest of its taxonomic classification.
[Jim] No, because it doesn't have cloven hooves (see above). That wasn't too complicated.
Of the order Perissodactyla?
[INJ] YES. Indeed an odd-toed ungulate.
One of the "rhino-like" amynodonts such as Gigantamynodon, Metamynodon , or Cadurcodon ?
[irach] Not Amynodontidae.
And when I searched for it the Popular Search Engine tried to change it to 'Amy - no, don't!' (Punctuation mine, three words its.)
*wishes you lot would speak English*
Are you all googling like crazy in order to ask questions with words that no-one uses in daily parlance? Or are you actually *experts* in this field? Whatever - clearly this game is not for me.
(Spangle) I agree. For some time this game has irritated the poo out of me and although I may contribute early on I usually drop out if it becomes clear the answer is some arcane piece of knowledge that very few people have. If it's not at the fingertips of a well-educated person (and all of us are that) then it's inappropriate. In the '50's this game was played live and the answers were always things that anyone would know of. This gives much scope for ingenuity without getting anorakky.
In the past I have threatened to retaliate (in the unlikely event that I would ever win) with a Steam Engine. Just a Steam Engine? Dear me, no - a big one. A Big Steam Engine? Come on - be serious, this one is Quite Big but not Very Big. So it's a 4-6-0, then? Yes. Not just any old 4-6-0; there were loads of them, but a Great Western 4-6-0. A Great Western 4-6-0, then? Oh, get a grip; there were several different classes. This one is a "Hall Class". OK, a Great Western "Hall Class" 4-6-0, then? Yes. Now guess which one. It's no. 7921,
Hidden text which is my current desktop, having taken a picture of it myself in 1959
, and one of 330.
Isn't that clever? This game is for 8 - 12 year olds and a complete f****** timewaster.
A quagga?
[Spangle, Rosie if they look in here again] I chose what I thought was a moderately well known extinct mammal after my living mammal was guessed in less than a day. It does say in the instructions that a search engine is useful, but I notice that further up the page, the items are a lot more general knowledge. Maybe a return to things most people have heard of wouldn't be a bad idea.
[Raak] Not a quagga.
I am sorry, I think I may have started this with my more specific topic. It happened to be an old episode of air crash investigation which I was watching at the time.
[spangle, knobbly, FGZ*] This is not a new debate. Rosie has voiced his views on this numerous times, and I don't think it's worth rehashing. But one thought did occur to me, which is that the existence of google might lead us to approach the guessing completely differently. In other words, even if the answer is not really obscure (as perhaps this one isn't; we don't know yet), we might approach it in obscure ways.
[CdM] Ah well, I'm a new player. Relatively. To this game anyway.
Volunteers to return us to our regularly scheduled game?
The reason I object to some of the extreme arcane subjects is that it denies the players the opportunity for general intelligence, which I take to be the ability to put two and two together and see connections, quite independent of any database. Digging around in Google may suit some but it doesn't exactly lift the spirits.
[Rosie] Yes, we know. You are given to saying so pretty much every few weeks.
A type of tapir?
[irach] No type of tapir.
A Chalicothere?
On the grounds that I know I've come across that one.
[INJ]Chalicothere? No.
Free advice - maybe ask another question instead of guess?
I give up
Frankly, although I've quite enjoyed some of the digging, I can't spare the effort to do more. I also have a problem in that I believe your answers have said that this animal has a single hoof (hoofed , not split). My sources state specifically that the only animals with a single hoof are related to horses, but you have said that is not the case.
Raak asked if it was an extinct species of horse. I said it wasn't an extinct species of horse, but distantly related, i.e. it belongs in the order Perissodactyl, like horses do.
There is a very important piece of identifying information that no-one has really tried to ascertain.
[All who haven't drifted off] Here is a roundup of all helpful facts so far known:
A non-human, extinct, quadrupedal mammal, of the order Perissodactyla (odd-toed ungulates). Died out more than 100,000 years ago, rhinoceros-like and larger than a toaster.
With two horn like protuberances?
[irach] Not with two horns.
Baluchitherium?
You said that you had a particular exemplar in mind. Would it help us to try to find out which one? (e.g., skeleton in a museum, illustration in a book...)
Has this creature evre been featured in a film?
[Projoy] YES Baluchitherium.
A prehistoric relative of the rhinoceros, featured in an episode of Walking With Beasts and the largest mammal ever to have existed. I would also have accepted Paraceratherium or Indricotherium. And I honestly thought it was fairly well known.
Is that the answer?
Is this a question?
[Spangle] Yes that is the answer.
Should I have added *Audience go wild, not untinged with relief* for avoidance of doubt?
[GL] Is this a rhetorical question?
Come to think of it, there's a talking baluchitherium in Brian Aldiss' short story "Old Hundreth".

It will not suprise onlookers to know that that was a triumph for Google rather than my prior general knowledge, but I for one am glad to know it now. Getting it to stick in memory will be the challenge...

The next is MINERAL (there might be odd bits of the other two in there, I'm not sure).
A structure?
Unique?
Primarily metal?
manufactured?
A flying start...
[Rosie] A Structure? STRICTLY, YES
[CdM] Unique? YES
[INJ] Primarily metal? YES
[Software] Manufactured? YES
Used in transportation?
Do people go inside it?
Artistic connections?
Found inside Earth's atmosphere?
Gathering speed...
[irach] Transportation? YES *applause*
[Knobbly] People inside? YES
[INJ] Artistic? NOT REALLY
[GL] Earthly? YES
Airborne?
Vickers VC-10 aircraft?
Currently in use?
The London Eye?
Making progress...
[Raak] Airy? NO
[irach] Holy plane? NO
[Rosie] In use? YES [Dujon] Sauron on the South Bank? NO
Great Western 'Hall Class' 4-6-0 number 7921?
Related to te Railways?
[FGZstar] Don't be silly, that's not still in use, it was scrapped in 1963.
[FGZ*] GWHC4607921? NO
[GL] Rail-ated? YES! *applause*
The Chunnel train?
[irach] Pancras to Paris? NON
Is it a 'named' engine or train?
[Duj] Named engine or train? YES
Is it a preserved steam locomotive?
The Flying Scotsman?
Puffing Billy?
[Rosie] A righted steamer? YES
[Raak] The Airborne Jock? NO
[Spangle] Drug-addled William? NO
Stephenson's Rocket?
Is it likely that I am the only Morniverser who has heard of this machine?
I don't know quite why I'm going along with this monumental piss-take. Must be the nice weather.
Union of South Africa?
Is it British?
[Spangle] Stockton to Darlington Express? NO
[Rosie] Something only you'd know? NO (I've heard of it too).
[FGZstar] Union of South Africa? NO *applause*
[GL] British? YES
Sir Nigel Gresley?
Chifferty-chafferty chifferty-chafferty
Does (or did) this locomotive hold the record (steam engines) for rapidity?
Mallard?
(Pursuing the Gresley link (thank you Wikipedia) and going with an engine that I had also heard of.)
[CdM] Not the Mallard, as that is no longer operational
[Dujon] Speed record? YES, this locomotive holds the postwar steam speed record, which means that Rosie, like The Answer, is entirely on track with...
[Rosie] LNER Class A4 4498 Sir Nigel Gresley? YES! *appreciative whistles*.
Please take this single-tracked-section token.
(I probably should have awarded a couple of claps for Flying Scotsman since the other still-operational Class A4, LNER Class A4 4464 Bittern, used to pull that train).
I hate three-cylinder engines; they don't puff properly.
Right; nothing whatsoever to do with railways in any way, shape or form, nevertheless MINERAL
Metallic?
Made of stone/rock?
Found on Earth?
(irach) Metallic? Almost entirely not.
(INJ) Stone or rock? YES, very largely.
(Gusset Login) Found on Earth? YES.
A rock formation?
(Knobbly) - Not a rock formation.
[Rosie] Manufactured or processed in some way?
(Projoy) Manufactured or processed? - YES. *some mild applause*
Related to Transport?
FGZstar - Train and boats and planes - alas, NO
A man-made wall?
(irach) - NO, not a wall.
Unique?
A building?
Artistic connections?
A Welsh slag heap?
;0)
A structure?
(CdM) - Unique? - By no means
(INJ) - Aberfan? Nothing so sad
(Projoy) - A structure? - YES.
Bigger than a washing machine?
You answered Software instead of me
(INJ) - Whoops, sorry about that - a bit early in the "morning". NO artistic connections.
Bigger than a washing machine? NO, at least in two out of three dimensions.
(Raak) A building? NO (though a structure).
Is it hollow?
A monument?
A utilitarian object?
(Projoy) Hollow? NO (very probably).
(Raak) A monument? NO. *a few laughs and a little quickly stifled applause*
(irach) - A utilitarian object? YES, very much so.
Found outdoors rather than indoors?
A Welsh slag heap?
trying again
(Softers) I replied to INJ (qv) instead of to you. Not a slag heap of any nationality.
(irach) Outdoors? YES. *some applause*
Is there just one of this?
(Pj) Unique? NO, not at all. (see reply to CdM)
Do humans typically need to touch this object with their hands and/or feet in the course of its normal use?
An electricity pylon?
Is it typically a part of something bigger?
(irach) - Need to touch the object? NO, but they probably would anyway.
(FGZstar) - An electricity pylon? NO.
(Projoy) - Part of something bigger? - NO, not in a physical sense.
Do all of its type have a specific geometric shape?
Would a typical morniverser own one?
A lighting fixture?
A dry stone wall?
Good to 'see' you in the chair, Rosie ;-)
You say it's a "structure", but does that mean it is made up of separate stone parts?
(irach) - All the same shape? YES, probably; maybe a few exceptions.
(CdM) - Ownership by typical morniverser? Good heavens, NO - we don't nick things, do we?
(Raak) - Lamp-post etc? NO.
(Chalky) - Dry-stone wall? Alas, NO.
Hidden textThey're very kind to the oldies here.

(Projoy) - Built up from stone blocks? - YES. *applause*
Found on/along a roadway?
Is it taller than a washing machine?
A pyramid?
(irach) - On a road? - Almost entirely NO, but theoretically could be at the side of one.
(Projoy) - Taller than a washing machine? - YES, but only a little.
(Softers) Square geezer? NO, nor pyramidal geometrically.
A triangulation pillar?
YESSS! Projoy wins. The actual "words on the card" were Trig Point, but that's the same thing. *Returns the single-line token*. Carry on.
There used to be a couple just down the road from my house where I grew up. OK, that's enough mineral, here's an ABSTRACT, with strong ANIMAL connections
Is the animal connection human?
[irach] Animal connection human? Only at the less significant end.
Animal instinct?
Husbandry?
Worth a punt from 75 yds.
Wayne Rooney?
Does it relate to an individual animal?
There was a trig point in the central strip of a stretch of dual carriageway in Leeds. (Scott Hall Road - may have been displaced by the guided bus route)
[irach] Instinct? NO
[Dujon] Spudhead? NO
[INJ] Individual animal? As in unique or an individual type? NO, if the former.
[Rosie] Husbandry? NO
Does this result in a specific action on the part of the animal?
Is this a song?
Human concept?
[Rosie] Action on the part of the animal? *some laughter* NOT EXACTLY
[Chalky] A song? NO
[Software] Human concept? YES
Related to a work of fiction?
[INJ] Fiction-work-related? NO, not particularly. Might be mentioned in a few.
A disease largely confined to animals?
Is this a phrase (e.g. "he had the strength of a lion")?
[Rosie] Disease? NO
[Dujon] A phrase? YES! *applause*
A pig's ear?
Is the animal domesticated?
A pig in a poke?
Dead as the dodo?
[Software] Porcine Aural Apparatus? NO
[CdM] Domesticated? NO
[irach] Hog in a holdall? NO
[Rosie] Dodo? NO.
Is it a proverb?
Is the referenced animal larger than a badger?
[FGZstar] Proverb? NO
[INJ] >Badger? NO
Is the animal in the phrase a rodent? As in "I smell a rat"?
[irach] Rodent? NO
Is the animal a mammal?
[irach] A mammal? NO
Is the animal dangerous?
Does the animal drink like a fish?
(Guessing) A snake in the grass?
A bird, such as one in the hand or two in the bush?
Playing possum?
[CdM] Dangerous? *laughter* NO
[Gusset Login] Drinking like a fish? NO *applause*
[Dujon] Grass Snake? NO
[irach] Birdies? NO
[Rosie] Marsupial? NO
Memory like a goldfish?
Or have I already asked that?
"Sleeping with the fishes"?
The one that got away?
Fishing for answers...
[INJ] What was that you said seven seconds ago? NO
[irach] Unfortunate Mafioso? NO
[Knobbly] Escapee? NO
Is a particular kind of fish named on the card?
[CdM] Particular fish? NO
Something's fishy here
[irach] Not sure if that's a question, but NO, that's not the phrase on the card.
"A Fish called Wanda"?
Always a bigger fish?
Many more fish in the sea?
A fish out of water?
Who knew there was so much to say about fish?
[irach] Cleese and Curtis? NO
[FGZstarfish] Bigger fish? NO
[Knobbly] A Fish in Sea? NO
[GL] Landed and Gasping? NO
A big fish in small pond?
Does the word 'fish' appear on the card?
[FGZstar] Parish Council Chair? NO
[Dujon] Does the word "fish" appear on the card? I thought you'd never ask... YES.
Fish face?
Begins with P(iscine)?
Fish for compliments?
Now , what fish is it that doesn't drink like a fish, I wonder.
[Software] Fish face? How dare you? Oh, I mean, NO.
[CdM] Pfish? NO
[INJ] Am I answering these questions OK, cos I do worry? (NO)
*the audience applaud INJ's other remark*
Kettle of fish?
Is there a culinary connection?
[irach] Kettle? NO
[INJ] Food? NO, not really.
Shooting fish in a barrel?
[irach] Barrel? NO, but I imagine we'll be scraping the bottom soon...
A Flying fish?
Does the referenced fish have to be dead?
[FGZstar] Flying fish? NO
[INJ] Dead fish? I think most people on hearing this expression would assume a dead fish, so YES. *applause*
(Strictly, its live/dead status isn't actually referenced, so it doesn't have to be)
A slap around the face with a wet fish?
Even better!
[Software] The Answer is, indeed, A slap in the face with a wet fish. Please accept this wet fish as your reward.
D*mn You, Software, you bounder!
I've just logged on with the intention of guessing that exact phrase.
[INJ] Yes, but it could be worse.
What a surprise, such a slippery baton!

Right, this one is Abstract with Animal, Vegetable and Mineral connections.

The anarcho-syndicalist world view?
Making a welcome(?) return.
The Internet?
This game?
Life, the universe, and everything?
The price of food?
[INJ] Back to barter? - NO welcome back BTW
[irach] www? - NO
[Projoy] Infinite loop? - NO
[Raak] Quo vadis? - NO
[Rosie] RPI? - NO
A Human Concept?
[FGZ] Conceptualized? - YES
Cuisine?
Is the Animal reference purely to humans?
Artistic connections?
[irach] Celebrity chefs - NO
[Rosie] Homo Sapiens - YES (almost entirely)
[INJ] Arty-Farty - YES
Related to music?
A straightforward question that requires a Yes or No answer?
[irach] Musical? - No not directly
[Spangle] Michael Miles? - NO
An artistic style, whatever the form of art?
Related to a performance art?
Funny?
[Rosie] Impressionist? - NO
[INJ] Acting? - NO though some say that could be the case
[Pro] Humour? - NO
The mona lisa?
Is this an organisation?
[FGZ] Enigmatic? - NO
[Rosie] Corp? - NO
A title of an artistic work?
[irach] Famous name? - NO
a piece of architecture?
[FGZ] bricks & mortar? - NO
To do with literature?
CGFC?
[Pro] Property boom?- NO
[Spangle] CGFC? - NO probably
[Pro] Sorry wrong answer
literate? - mostly NO
Is the vegetable connection floral?
WTF's CGFC cos im FIIK.
Related to painting?
[irach] petal based? - YES * a good portion of the audience claps *
[Pro] Decoration? (As this question was answered previously I assume you refer to the industrial kind) - NO
[Rosie] me too, in the absence of knowledge the safest answer is always NO
Ikebana or other type of Flower Arrangement?
CGFC
[Rosie] I made it up because I wanted to find a question that wouldn't be changed when SW was giving an answer. The changes are sometimes inaccurate and misleading. They cause a double look-back to ascertain the response to a reasonable question. I really give up. I actually HATE the way that this game is played.
Therefore - I am not going to play it any more. :)
A bridal bouquet?
The Guernsey Battle of Flowers?
(Softers) Yes, I know it's The Donkeys, but it's all I can think of ATM. I like Guernsey, BTW.
(Spangle) Yes, can be a bit annoying, especially if the meaning of the question appears to have been changed. I think one should always assume that it has not, and that the quizmaster is merely indulging himself a little.
The Chelsea flower show?
[Spangle] Sorry, old mate, just doing as Rosie says.
[FGZ] Blushing bridal flowers? - NO audience claps and talks among themselves enthusiastically
[Rosie] Donkey Derby? - NO [Rosie, how could you?]
[Duj] Annual display? - NO
Are the petals confetti?
A buttonhole?
(Could you answer my last question? You seem to have missed answering it)
[Knobby] Confetti - NO not on the card but the audience applauds appreciatively.
[FGZ] Carnation? - NO more loud applause
[irach] Floral display? - NO audience murmurs appreciatively
Horticulture?
[irach] Farmer Giles? - NO
Boutonnière or corsage?
[irach] Formal floral decoration? - NO (see above, not what is on the card) audience claps again
a fleur-de-lis?
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