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AVMA Take 2
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Yes, it's another round of that classic guessing game - Animal, Vegetable, Mineral, Abstract [or any combination thereof]. This effort - '03/'04 should address any queries, but then again, may just serve to confuse and baffle which some might say is the point of the game. Patience, integrity and a decent search engine may be useful ....
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To do with religion?
[Projoy] smells and bells? - YES (*a small ripple*)
I did rather signal that, didn't I?
Something from Judeo-Christian legend/history?
Angelic?
A sacred animal in some religion?
[Projoy] Judeo-Christian? - YES
[Dujon] Non angli sed angeli? - NO
[Rosie] Baal-lamb? - NO
Devilish?
A character from the Old Testament?
[Software] From the very dark side? - NO
[CdM] OTT? YES
A bird?
[Rosie] Avian? - YES *applause*
Dove-ish?
[Software] Dived? - NO
A raven?
[Projoy] Raven? - YES * Applause and the noise of coats being put on, bags being picked up, etc.*
The raven that couldn't find the olive tree?
We have a winner
Very impressive - I thought that would prove a little more difficult.
The answer is indeed The Raven that was the first bird released from the Ark
One gopher-wood baton handed on
Oops. Was working all day. I think I might have to pass again, as still rather behind with work. The floor is open.
It's been sitting here for a while, so I'll take it.

ABSTRACT with ANIMAL and sometimes MINERAL connections
Fictional?
Are the animal connections non-human and mammal?
[Tuj] Made up? YES
[irach] Mammalian but non-human? NO
Does this come from a work of fiction such as a novel?
Animal human?
[Rosie] Bookish? YES and NO
[INJ] Humanity? YES
From a non-novelistic work of fiction?
Is the mineral metal?
Religion based?
[Projoy] Fictional? YES
[GL] Metal? CAN BE
[Dujon] Religous? NO
A weapon?
Science fiction?
[Dujon] Object capable of harm? NO *animated whisperings from audience*
[Software] SciFi? CAN BE, but it would be more helpful if I said NO
From the world of motion pictures?
[INJ] YES and NO; however again NO is more helpful.
Begins with P?
Is the mineral liquid?
[Tuj] P-to the rest of it? NO
[INJ] Liquidity? NO
Is the Abstract a quality ascribable to humans?
[Rosie] Quality of humanity? NO
Is the animal a single identifiable person?
[INJ] A single identity? VERY NO.
A single-word answer?
A particular battle?
[Tuj] One word? To be honest it depends on whether you're being definitive, in which case the answer is YES, or whether you're being more abstract, in which case NO. Either way you won't get a very helpful answer.
[Dujon] A battle? Some could call it a battle, but it's going to help more if I say NO
A riot or similar unruly assembly?
A cause? (e.g. Suffragettes)
[Rosie] I predict a riot? NO
[Dujon] Group with a common goal? NO
Any chance of a clue?
[Tuj] I don't see why not.
A run through of what you know:
It is fictional
Involves humans in some way
The mineral can be metal at times
Not a weapon but the audience seemed to like the word
Nowhere near a single person

If I had to give an extra clue: it is a game. I can't get more blunt than that.
Does or has the game exist(ed) in the real world as well as the fictional one?
Is it something akin to chess pieces?
Lewis Carroll connection?
[Rosie] I'm not quite sure what you mean. Could you please elaborate?
[Dujon] Chess pieces? NO
[irach] Alice related? NO
Nought's and Crosses?
(tic-tac-toe to our American Morniversers)
[Software] O&X? NO
Boardo?
(Kinrah) You say it's a game and is fictional, which to me could mean it only takes place in a story and could be a game that does not exist in the real world (e.g. competitive vole-polishing). Or it could be a known game between fictional contestants, such as Melchester Rovers etc.
[GL] Checkmate, I'll take that card? NO some whisperings from audience
[Rosie] Ohh. I meant fictional as in the story behind the game is fictional, as opposed to something based on a true story. I apologise if you didn't read it that way. Yes, the game exists in the real world, whether the players are fictional or not is entirely up to a writer's discretion.
Is the result of the game significant to the story?
Nonsense - is it?
Fantasy Football?
[Rosie] Result significant? YES
[Software] Gobbeldegook? NO
[Kim] Fan Made Foot Sports? NO
Ok, since this doesn't seem to be going anywhere, I'm going to reveal the answer and pass the baton to somebody else.

I was thinking of the game of Cluedo (or I believe it's called Clue in the US). Hence:
Fictional
Animal connection human
There have been books and films made on the subject
Pieces can be made of metal or other minerals
Involves weapons (see audience reaction)
Many identities
A one or multi-word answer depending on whether you say 'A Game of Cluedo' or 'Cluedo'
The end of the game is significant in that the true murderer is locked up

In any case, a candlestick-shaped baton handed to whoever wants to take it.
Well, reading back, I think that Tuj actually won the round at 3:48 pm on the 2nd of March. So it must be his turn.
[CdM] Very generous ;) I'll have to decline as this is about the busiest period of my life, certainly thus far. Baton, anyone?
I'll take the baton if no one is using it. MINERAL
Metal?
Stone?
[Rosie] Metal? No.
[Software] Stone? No.
liquid?
Gaseous?
Excluding flatus, obviously
[INJ] liquid? No, is the most useful answer. Partly, is more accurate.
[Rosie] Gas? Yes
Is the mineral water?
In whatever state.
[INJ] water? Not to any significant extent, no.
Found in the home?
[Software] Found in the home? No (Sounds of mirth from the audience).
meteorological/atmospheric?
[INJ] meteorological or atmospheric? Technically no, but it may be related.
Flammable?
Connected with transport?
Composed primarily of a single element?
[Rosie] Flammable? Depends what you do with it, but normally probably not.
[Software] Transport? No.
[INJ] Single element? Yes. (More than 75%)
Compressed air?
[Rosie] Compressed air? No
One of the Inert Gases?
[Rosie] Inert gas? No
Correction: [INJ] I have double checked and it might be slightly less than 75% composed of a single element.
Anaesthetic?
[Rosie] Anaesthetic? No.
The sun?
Not the penny dreadful.
*Smattering of applause from the audience*
[Rosie] Sol? No.
Some other star?
Is the single 75%ish element hydrogen?
Helium?
[Software] Helium? No.
[CdM] 70-75% Hydrogen? Yes.
[Rosie] A Star? No.
Jupiter?
By Jove, that had better be right.
[Rosie] Jupiter? YES. Have a baton.
Well, that was quick, and this may also be not too difficult .
It's ABSTRACT
A pseudonym?
Don't ask, I don't know.
(Dujon) - Not a pseudonym.
A human concept?
(Softers) - Human concept? - YES
Specifically European?
Does it begin with P?
(Softers) - Specifically European - NO. *one or two sniggers from the audience*
(Gusset Login) Pinitialism? - NO. Not in English, at any rate.
Specific to some particular culture or place?
Related to language?
(CdM) - Specific to some particular culture or place? - YES, but only in terms of the actual word (s) on the card.
(Dujon) - NOT language-related.
Any political connection?
(Softers) - Political connection? - YES, very much so, Gary. *vigorous audience applause*
Pertaining to the erstwhile Soviet Union?
The Great Firewall of China?
(irach) - NO, not pertaining specifically to the USSR.
(INJ) - Good thinking but NO, alas.
Clarification regarding CDM's query - the best answer is really a straightforward NO. Anything else may be misleading.
A joke of some kind?
(Dujon) - A joke? NO, far from it.
Anything to do with expenses?
Although they are far from abstract.
(Softers) - Expenses? - YES, though not exclusively. *vigorous applause*
An Election?
Obviously not imaginary duck houses??
(INJ) - NO, not an election.
(Softers) - Mallard's engine shed? - NO, but *further mild applause.*
Corruption?
(CdM) - Corruption? Getting very warm. *more audience applause*
A quango?
(Dujon) - A quango? NO.
Fictious parliamentary expenses?
(Softers) - One ball of string, one skewer, one pair of scissors as Representative of the All-Party Conker Committee? - NO, but that's part of it.
An inquiry of some sort?
Obviously dancing around it ...
(Softers) - An inquiry? - NO. Dancing round it is the very phrase. :-)
A government policy of some kind (e.g. the budget)?
(Dujon) - NO, not government policy at all, at least as they see it.
A Leak?
(INJ) - NO, not a leak.
This is a rather general term.
Sleaze?
SLEAZE it is! Well done GL. Over to you.
Oh, OK my turn, I guess.... ANIMAL
Human?
Alive?
[INJ] Human? Yes
[CdM] Alive? At one time, but not now.
Famous individual?
European?
[Softie] Individual of note? Yes
[INJ] European? Yes
Male?
[i,rach] Male? Yes
British?
[Rosie] British? Yes
In the entertainment field?
Artistic?
In a broad sense
[irach] An Entertainer? Yes
[INJ] Artistic? That's a matter of personal opinion. Some would say he was and some that he wasn't, I suspect.
Born in the 20th century?
[Rosé] A 20th Century Boy? Yes
A banjo/banjolele/ukelele player?
[Dujon] A banjo/banjolele/ukelele player? That's three questions. At least one of which would have the answer yes.
George Formby?
[Software] Ooh, mother. Turned out nice again? YES have this baton that was leaning on a lamppost at the corner of the street.
*Blushes as that certain little lady passes by*

Dammit, now I have to think ...

I know - ABSTRACT with ANIMAL Connections

A fictional character?
More than one animal involved?
A human construct?
A G-string?
[Gusset Login] I'm ever so pleased. ;-)
[GL] - Bugs Bunny? NO
[irach] The Herd? - YES
[Rosie] Imagination? YES
[Duj] Airy stuff? NO
An organisation of like-minded individuals?
Would Calgary be related?
[Rosie] affiliation? NO * spattering of applause from audience *
[Duj] Stampede? Not sure what you mean but NO is probably the answer.
A fictional group of humans?
Any connection with sports?
[GL] Imaginary? NO. * chuckling from audience *
[Juxta] Fitness? NO.
Any connections with politics?
[Rosie] Collective decision making? YES!
A general election?
A marginal constituency?
[Pro] Current mêlée? - NO. * some laughter and applause from audience *
[Rosie] Tactical territory? - NO.
Some kind of discussion?
A hung parliament
Or a hanged parliament, if you prefer that idea.
[Pro] Debate? - NO.
[INJ] Strung-up? (They should be). -NO.
Democracy?
[FGZ] Choosability? NO * laughter from audience *
A type of government?
[INJ] Party specific? NO.
A method of voting?
The House of Lords?
[FGZ] Ballot? - NO.
[Rosie] Feudalism?- NO.
Is it related to a change in government?
[GL] Selection - YES. * some applause from audience *
A coup?
[Duj] Junta? - NO. nothing so dramatic.
Hint: two words on card.
Regime Change?
Conservative government?
To do with totalitarianism?
[GL] Revolution? - NO.
[FGZ] Toryism? - NO.
[Pro] Stalin and his mates? - NO.
Hint: Remember this is largely ABSTRACT!
Is it a political term of phrase?
Dissolution of Parliament?
[FGZ] Spin? - YES! (although not always what politicians themselves want to convey)
[Rosie] End of Term? - NO.
The truth?
Campaign Promises?
A sudden shift in the structure of a hill?
[Pro] Veracity - NO (certainly virtual in the case of politicians)
[Duj] Lib-Dem revival? - NO
[FGZ] Promises, promises? - YES!
FGZ has it! I pass on the over-egged baton and may the best man win!
Thanks, Software, I dunno how to do the big letters thing, so here goes...

ANIMAL
Animal = human?
[Software] Homo Sapiens? NO
Four legs?
Quadroped? NO
Alive?
A bird?
[GL] Animate? YES
[Rosie] Ornithological? YES
A particular species?
Specific? YES Just to warn you guys that i have started travelling again, so I may not be on as often to answer questions. I'll try to get on as often as I can.
Extant?
Sorry, I don't quite follow, please rephrase.
Extant (adj.) - A species which isn't extinct
Currently in existance? - YES
[FGZ*] PfD is quite correct (Thank you PfD). I might stress that I am not PfD but also that this site does include a wide variety of pedants with an equal proportion of grammarians, lexicographers, etymologists and other related types - each of which insists on proving their existence.
A bird of prey?
[GL] Predatory? - No
Found in Europe?
European? NO
A flightless bird?
North America?
Endemic to North America? NO
Flightless? YES
An ostrich?
A Penguin?
Kiwi?
[Rosie][Duj][GL] All incorrect
[GL] Nope.
Penguin?
not a Linux fan by any chance?
Cassowary?
Kakapo?
All still incorrect so far... [Software] I take it that's not an AMVA question, and no, sadly I have never actually tried linux. I am currently windows only.
Silkie?
Any relevance to current events?
[GL] Nope [Rosie]Relevant? - no
Is it a member of the crane family?
Gruiformes.
A Chook?
Rhea?
[GL] Crane? NO
[Duj, Soft] NO
sorry guys but I've been stuck in Invercargill with no internet. Definitely not a great situation
Found primarily in Africa?
Kakapo?
Should I be trembling?
[INJ] African? No
[GL] Nope, as I told Juxtapose earlier
[Dujon] If you did, I would laugh at you

So far there have been some close guesses, but none spot on yet
A sub-species of a current guess?
[Software] Not that close
Australasian?
[INJ] Yes
Is it a kind of duck?
Begins with a P?
[GL] No [Tuj] No
Specific to New Zealand? (e.g. the Takahe)
[Duj] Certainly
[GL] My apologies, but I have answered a previous question incorrectly. Upon further research the animal in question belongs to the family of gruiformes. I am sorry for any inconvenience that this may cause, but Wikipedia has let me down.
Takhe?
If it is Dujon deserves the win.
[GL] Not the takahe, or he would have won.
Endemic only to the South Island?
This could turn into a guessing game. ZL has a significant number of gruiformes so I am trying my best to start a narrowing down of the possibilities.
Weka?
And with that, the well contested baton is passed to Gusset Login. Well done and good luck to all. I am not sure if it is endemic only to the SI, Dujon, but that was the only place I saw them.
OK, time for another ANIMAL
Human?
Used as a mascot?
[Rosie] Human? Sometimes.
[Juxtapose] Mascot? Almost everything has been used as a mascot at sometime, I don't believe that this is the exception.
A part of an animal?
[CdM] A chunk of someone? YES
Is this literal 'chunk' used as a description of a human (e.g. He was built like the back end of an elephant)?
[Dujon] Describing a human? I can't think of a time I have heard it used in that way, but I guess it's possible.
A particular animal or human?
An organ?
A werewolf?
Begins with P?
[Rosie] Particular? No
[Juxtapose] Organ? {Smattering of applause} No
[Dujon] Lycanthrope? No
[Tuj] P***? Not in english
A gland, perhaps?
[Juxtapose] A gland, perhaps? perhaps not
Relative to cardiology?
[Dujon] Cardiac relativity? No
Begins with P (to your knowledge) in some other language?
A head?
(CdM) Pen in Welsh, so Yes. :-)
[CdM] P-ing in foreign? I think it might in Czech but I'm far from an expert
[Rosie] A head? {Much applause} No
Physiognomy?
Amygdala?
[INJ] Studying Bumps? Would be abstract
[CdM] Amygdala? No
A skull?
[Juxtapose] skull? YES Have a juxtaposed baton.
Minor pedantry
Physiognomy = the face
Phrenology = determining the character by studying the lumps & bumps of the skull
Retro-phrenology = hitting the skull precisely with a hammer in order to achieve the configuration that gives the required character traits.
Sorry NotJohn
You're right, I misread. It was still wrong, if anything wrongerer.
Ooh, only my second baton-receiving. How exciting!
Alright-ah. This time we shall say: MINERAL.
Is it valuable?
[FGZ] Valuable? Yes.
Begins with P?
An object or objects?
More than 50% metal?
Unique?
Stone?
Is it radioactive?
Second letter A?
Last letter Y?
[Tuj] /^P/ No.
[Rosie] An object or objects? Yes.
[GL] More than 50% metal? Yes.
[Dujon] Unique? Typically no.
[Software] Stone? Stone is often involved.
[CdM] Radioactive No.
[Tuj2] /^.a/ No.
[GL2] /y$/ No.
A machine?
[Rosie] A machine? No.
Decorative?
A letter opener?
[GL] Decorative? I'm going to say Yes, though it's debatable.
[Softers] A letter opener? No.
Smaller than a toaster?
Bigger than a bread van?
[Tuj] <"toaster" Yes!
[GL] >"bread van" Nop.
A depositary of some kind?
A Ring?
[Dujon] depositary - a facility where things can be deposited for storage or safekeeping? No.
[FGZ] A ring? Yes. *much expectant applause*
A millstone?
An engagement ring?
[Softers] A millstone? Not quite...
[CdM] An engagement ring? YES! Well deduced, all. As it turns out, I am soon to be one half of "Mr. and Mrs. Juxtapose". The Mr. half, specifically. Have a ludicrously overpriced hand-made wedding baton.
Almost a lurker's victory, there. And congratulations, Juxtapose! All right, this one is

ANIMAL with ABSTRACT connections
Conservatism?
An anarcho-syndicalist rabbit?
Making a welcome return.
Supermouse?
Conservatism? No. (Is that an animal?)
Picketing Bunny? No.
Supermouse? No.
Is the animal human?
Human? No.
Starts with P?
David Cameron?
Mind if I join you?
Living creature(s)?
Is it a mascot of some sort?
OK, scratch that last one. David Cameron is human, as far as anyone knows.
P-begun? No.
The beast Cameron? No.
Alive? No.
Mascottish? Yes.
A cartoon character?
Cartoon character? No.
Represents a nation or geographical area?
National Geographic? No.
Is it associated with a particular company or product?
Symbolic?
Extinct?
Also making a (hopefully) welcome return.
Of the feline ilk?
Associated with company or product? Yes *applause*
Symbolic? Yes, in the mascottish sense already noted. Did you have something more specific in mind?
Extinct? No (or perhaps not applicable would be better)
Catty? Yes.
Is it Tony the Tiger?
The British Lion?
The Wild Haggis?
Familiar to a resident of America?
British company or product?
Tony? Wrrrrrrrrrrrrong.
British Lion? No.
Wild Haggis? No.
Familiar from California to the New York islands? Yes.
British company or product? No.
US company or product?
To get the obvious follow-up out of the way...
A product more than a company?
US company or product? Yes.
Product more than company? No.
Morris the Cat?
Morris the Cat? No.
The paddle pop lion?
Very similar to the Merlion in Singapore
Paddle Pop Lion? I think you will find that begins with P. Therefore, No.
The MGM roaring lion?
MGM lion? Close enough for a Yes! The words on the card were, strictly, The Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer Lions (plural), with the answer referring to the actual animals. (Not all the lions actually roared, by the way.) At least in my question-setting world, many of the guesses that people gave would be Abstract with animal connections, as opposed to the Animal with abstract connections that I specified.

One celluloid representation of a baton passed on to irach.
This next one is just ANIMAL.
Unique?
Human?
Symbolic?
[CdM]Yes, unique.
[GL]Yes, human.
[Software] Hmmm... I presume could be considered a symbol of sorts.
Alive now?
[jim] No, but in a sense will always be alive.
Ronnie James Dio?
[jim] No, not RJ Dio.
Did they die before 17th May 1983?
[GL] The person in question was reported to have died prior to 17 May 1983, but will likely always be immortal.
An entertainer?
[INJ] No, not an entertainer.
Jesus Christ?
No, not Jesus Christ.
Fictional?
[Juxtapose] Yes, fictional.
When you speak of this fictional human as "always being alive" and "immortal", do you mean that there is something about this particular character that is immortal, as opposed to the character being immortal simply by virtue of being fictional? If you see what I mean.
[CdM] Mostly just by being fictional, but perhaps a little more than just a character in this case.
Did the character originally appear in a book?
[jim] Yes, the person first appeared in a book.,
Main character in a book?
Does the person's name appear in the title?
[Juxtapose] Yes, the person's name is in the book title.
[Software] Yes, the person is the main character in the book.
Was the book in question published prior to the year 1900?
[Juxtapose] The book was first pubished prior to 1900.
Was this person a mariner?
Does this person appear in more than one book?
By the way -- not as criticism, just as observation -- I would classify any fictional character (or place, or thing) as primarily abstract, with xxx connections as appropriate. Is that how others also think about these classifications?
[CdM] Research indicates that it was one book, published in two parts.
Is the person female?
[Juxtapose] The person is male.
British or Irish author?
[jim] Neither British or Irish author.
Originally written in English?
Oedipus?
[jim] Not originally written in English.
[GLogin] Not Oedipus.
Begins with P?
[CdM] I concur
[Tuj] Not beginning with "P".
The Count of Monte Cristo?
You missed Dujon's "mariner" question, by the way.
[Dujon] The person was not a mariner.
[CdM] Not "The Count of Monte Cristo"
Hercules?
Written before 1800?
[FGZstar] Not Hercules.
[INJ] Yes, written before 1800.
Written before 1700?
Original question, I know. Though irach did say "published in two parts", and we can't go too much further back before "published" stops being a meaningful concept.
[jim] Yes, both parts first came out in print prior to 1700.
Don Quixote?
Just a wild stab at a windmill in the dark...
[jim] The baton...or lance in this case is passed to you...Don Quixote it is! The books Part I, El Ingenioso Hidalgo don Quijote de la Mancha and its sequel were published for Cervantes ten years apart, in 1604 and 1614 by publisher Francisco de Robles. Incidentally, Don Quixote was one of the first bestseller books for which pirated editions soon appeared in the marketplace. The fact that I considered Don Quixote as being a little more immortal than just famous for being a fictional character (in response to CdM's question) is that the personality trait adjective "quixotic" has also been derived from his name.
Takes lance with extreme caution
Thank you, thank you. Another result of the first book's being so popular was a rash of what you might call "unofficial sequels", of rather poor quality. The second book was written in part as a response to these.
I hope it's not considered too much bad form to guess like that straight after having a question answered. Actually, I couldn't think of any two-part foreign language books of that sort of antiquity, and was about to guess the Bible, although certain that wasn't it, just to eliminate the possibility, when another candidate suddenly struck me.

Anyway, I am now thinking of an ABSTRACT, with ANIMAL and VEGETABLE connections. Game on.

Is the animal human?
'En un lugar de La Mancha, de cuyo nombre no quiero recordarme...' - I've always liked that as an opening line - it's the 'no quiero' that gives it its interest.
[Animal human] In one connection, specifically yes. In another connection, yes, but not specifically so. In a sense, specifically no.
Does the answer contain a verb?
Is it a well known phrase or saying?
[Contains a verb] No verb.
[Well known phrase] No. That is, the name of the thing is certainly well known, and you might make a case for its being a phrase or saying, but the thing itself is not one.
Minotaur?
[Minotaur] No.
Character in a book?
[Character] No.
Does the human animal connection refer to a specific individual?
[Individual] The "specifically human" connection is to a specific individual human, yes.
Begins with P?
Ends with Y?
[Tuj] Pno.
[Gusset] Noy.
A general reference to an unspecified constituent of a group (e.g. 'one of the mob', 'a club member')?
[General reference] No. There's a sense in which the AOTC could be said to refer to a group of closely related entities, but it would usually be considered as a single specific thing.
Is the answer a mythical creature?
[Mythical creature] No.
Does the name of the human connection appear on the card?
Is the specific human a man?
[Name on card] No.
[Male human] Yes.
A leader?
Does the vegetable connection refer to a specific vegetable (such as a single identified tree, for example)?
[Leader] The person in question could certainly be considered a leader, but if you mean to ask if he is principally known as the leader of some group, nation, army etc., the answer is no.
[Specific vegetable] No.
I should clarify that when I say that the name of the human does not appear on the card, I mean precisely that. It would not be unnatural to describe the thing in terms of the person, but the name of the thing as I am envisaging it on the card does not contain the person's name.
IS it relating to a specific type of vegetable?
Is the human fictional?
[Specific type of vegetable] No.
[Fictional human] No.
Was the human involved in the invention or creation of the thing?
Was this thing invented?
(rather than, say, discovered)
[Human involved] Yes. Some murmurs of appreciation from the crowd
[Invented] I'm not sure "invented" is the right word, but it was more invented than discovered, although there is a strong connection to discovery.
Is the vegetable connection in regards to its shape?
[Shaped like a vegetable] No.
(In the sense that the thing can be said to have a shape, which is debatable.)
Was it "invented" in the last century?
(assuming that question makes sense)
[Last century] It did not come into being during the 20th century.
Are we broadly in the realm of science?
[Science] Yes. Audience applauds
Is the science in question astronomy?
Mathematical?
Newton's Law of Gravity?
[Astronomy] No.
[Mathematics] No.
[What goes up...] Nope.
Medical-related?
Biological Evolution related (a la Darwin?)
[Medical] No.
[Biological evolution] Yes. Cheers from the audience
Natural Selection?
Family tree?
[Natural selection] No, but there is a very strong connection. Audience are on the edges of their seats
[Family tree] No. Audience sit back again
The book title, "On the Origin of Species"
Yes! It is the book "On the Origin of Species", or to give it its full title, "On the Origin of Species by means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life", only that wouldn't fit on the card. Charles Darwin, of course, being the specific named human (not actually named on the card, but could have been); Darwin tactfully refrained from directly addressing human evolution in the book, hence the "specifically non-human" connection. Not that the book wasn't controversial enough anyway. One naturally selected baton goes over to irach.
Holy Galapagos! By the beard of the land iguana! Me again? The next one is quite simply ANIMAL.
Human?
(oblig)
[INJ] Not human.
Skippy the bush kangaroo?
Mammalian?
[jim] Not the aforementioned marsupial, or any other kangaroo.
[GL] Not mammalian.
A fish?
A monotreme?
[GL]Not a fish.
[Dujon] Not a montreme.
A blue-footed booby?
A Bird?
[CdM} Not a booby- blue-footed, or otherwise.
[FGZstar] Not a bird.
An insect?
A reptile?
Begins with P?
Arachnid?
[CdM] Yes, an insect. Audience raises collective antennae attentively...
[GL] Not a reptile.
[Juxtapose] Not an arachnid.
Is it found in New Zealand?
Was it ever hidden in New Zealand?
Is it a beetle?
Because that would really narrow it down. Also, why are you avoiding Tuj's question?
[Tuj] Does not begin with "P".
Yes, it is found in New Zealand.
[all] Hmmm... I don't really know.
[CdM] It is not a beetle.... (Mark...Antennae, no Coleoptera).
A weta?
A form of Stonefly?
[Juxtapose] Not a weta.
[Dujon] Not a stonefly.
Is it poisonous/venomous?
[CdM] Yes, it is poisonous.
A Fire Ant?
[FGZstar] Not a fire ant.
By poisonous, do you mean as in it will poison you if eaten, as opposed to venomous where it will bite you and poison you
[FGZstar] It will poison one if eaten.
Is it endemic only to New Zealand, or is it found in other countries?
[FGZstar] It is also found in other countries.
Is it a caterpillar?
[FGZstar] In one stage of its being it is a caterpillar, yes.
Would this be a butterfly that holds its wings flat when at rest?
If Duj would happen to be wrong, would it be a moth, such as the Hawthorn Caterpillar's moth (can't remember the name)?
[Dujon] Not that I know of.
[FGZstar] Not a moth.
Do the words on the card describe a butterfly?
[CdM] The words on the card refer to a specific butterrfly.
Cabbage White?
I know few others
[Software] Not a Cabbage White.
Is it, broadly speaking, a commonly known butterfly (like, say, Red admiral), or is it sufficiently obscure that we still need to ask other questions to narrow it down?
[CdM] Very commonly known butterfly... (and remember the clue that this species is known to be poisonous if eaten).
Is it a Monarch butterfly?
(shamelessly taking advantage of my time zone to ask two questions in a row)
[CdM] Yes, a Monarch butterfly it is! Monarchs feed on milkweed and sequester the digitalis-like cardiac glycosides from the plant, rendering them poisonous to predators. The range of the species does now extend to New Zealand.

A baton worthy of a monarch, nay... a sceptre... passed on to CdM.
.
MINERAL
Uluru aka Ayers Rock?
Pluto?
Does it gush out of the sea bed in the Gulf of Mexico?
Red rock? No.
Dead rock? No.
Bed rock? No.
Any kind of rock?
Igneous, sedimentary, metamorphic, soft, hard, folk, sheet, soap, sham, def, red, 30, cradle will, black, picnic at hanging, school of, jailhouse? No.
Would I be correct in assuming then that it is metallic in composition?
Made by man?
Metallic? No.
Manmade? Yes.
My apologies. I am guilty of too cursory a reading of wikipedia. This is actually MINERAL and (probably) ANIMAL and/or (possibly) VEGETABLE.
A single specific thing?
Begins with P?
Single specific thing? In the sense I think you mean, the answer is No. The card does name some thing, but there is more than one instance of the thing named on the card. If you see what I mean.
Begins with P? Why, yes, yes it does. :-)
Can it be used for constructtion?
Can it be used for construction? *some audience laughter* It really depends what you mean by construction. Can you be more specific?
Plastic?
Judging from the audience laughter, I presume it may be used, for example, for constructing crafts or small objects rather than homes or edifices. Is this presumption correct? [e.g. construction of objects by children with "Plasticine" (which by the way is mainly mineral calcium salts mixed in with plant or animal derived aliphatic fatty acids such as stearic acid, and begins with a "P", and therefore actually fits the bill quite nicely for the object on the card.!)]
Play-doh?
[CdM] Why thanks, it's been a little while =)
And indeed Plasticene is the correct answer! (And I had planned to choose Play-Doh -- which is mineral and vegetable btw -- for my next chance at setting. Oh well.)

One soft and slightly misshapen baton, dirty brown in colour yet still showing traces of the other brighter colours it once comprised, passed to irach.
Once more into the breach... okay, the next one's essentially MINERAL.
Did you mean "Once more unto the beach?" If so, is it oil?
[Rosie] Not an oozing mineral.
Man made?
[G Login] Yes, man-made.
An object, fabricated with some mineral or other?
[Rosie] Yes, an object fabricated with mineral substances.
More than 50% metal?
BP's broken saw blade?
[G Login} Yes, mo than 50% metal.
[FGZstar] Not a BP saw blade.
Works with electricity?
[Rosie] Does not require electricity to operate, but has electrical connections on it.
A missile of some kind?
A generator?
I am thinking this because it doesn't need electricity to operate, rather that it generates it. Unless of course you are generalising with electricity meaning the notion of electricity. Or am I reading far too much into this?
[Dujon] Not a missile.
[FGZstar] It does not need electricity for its basic essential function for a good part of the day; the electrical needs of this object are secondary to its main purpose.
A dial or indicator on a car?
Are the electrical connections related to output from the unit? (e.g. Solar Panel, Thermal Spring . . . )
[Rosie] Not a dial or indicator.
[Dujon] Electrical connections are unrelated to the output from the unit. As indicated, the electrical connections are totally ancillary; not essential for the object on the card's proper functioning for a good part of the 24-hour day, and they are not what is generally thought of by one in connection with the object in question.
Battery operated?
[Software] Not battery operated.
(The game has become side-tracked by everyone focusing on the electrical component. While in response to Rosie's question, I had to answer that there are electrical connections involved with this essentially mineral object, those connections are not what would normally come to mind in relation to the words on the card).
Earth?
[G Login] No, not anywhere as large as Earth, and remember, the object is man-made.
Any plastic content?
[Software] No plastic content.
Bigger than a bread box?
An Oyster Card?
Well, it works on the electrical side of things....
Smaller than a phone box?
[jim] Considerably bigger than a bread box.
[FGZstar] Not an Oyster Card.
[G Login] Considerably larger than a phone box.
Does it move?
Big Ben?
{Software} Its primary purpose is not to move, but depending on environmental conditions it may indeed "move.
[Rosie] Not Big Ben, but inching closer.
A bridge?
Tower Bridge?
[jim] Yes, a bridge! (Audience breaks out humming, "Sur le pont..." in anticipation of someone bridging the remaining gap to the answer.)
[G Login] Not the Tower Bridge, though...
It sounds a bit wiered to me.
[Dujon] ("Wiered" I don't know about, but "wire" is definitely a hint.)
Located in the UK?
The Forth Rail Brige?
Well, it is apparently the 8th wonder of the world...
The Gateshead Millennium Bridge?
The wibbly-wobbly bridge, aka the London Millennium Bridge?
Ironbridge?
A suspension bridge?
[Juxtapose] Not in the UK.
[FGZstar] Not the Forth Rail Bridge.
[INJ] Not the Gateshead Millenium Bridge.
[jim] Not the wibbly-wobbly London Millenium Bridge.
[Software] Not Ironbridge
[INJ] Yes, a suspension bridge.
In the USA?
In Europe?
[jim] Yes, in the USA.
[INJ] As above, not in Europe.
Golden Gate Bridge?
[Juxtapose] Yes, The Golden Gate Bridge it is! The bridge does have electrical connections primarily for lighting, and while its primary purpose is not to move, it can move during severe weather conditions. During the winter storms in 1982, the main span bowed and swayed approximately 6 to 7 feet. The baton made up of intertwined wire cable is passed.
I shall have to stop switching rapidly between this and 'Where am I' since I had it in my head that we were in the UK - wrong game!
I am afraid I am a bit to blame for that one, sice I created the latter. What do you think of it, by the way?
Easily confused
[FGZstar] I was worried it would just be a copy of this game, but it has taken off at a bit of a tangent. I think there's room for both.
Okay, all, get ready to be stumped with a

VEGETABLE

.
Is it alive?
Is it edible?
Wood?
A Cucumber?
Tree stump?
A specific plant?
Found in UK?
A bail?
Wicket?
Found on a farm?
The Answers:
[Alive?] This could be debated, but I will say Yes.
[Edible?] No.
[Wood?] No.
[Cucumber?] No.
[Tree stump?] No.
[A specific plant?] Yes.
[Found in the UK?] No.
[A bail] No.
[Wicket?] No.
[Found on a farm?] No.
A specific individual plant?
A Member of the cactus family?
A very ancient tree?
Found in Africa?
Insectivorous?
More Answers:
[A specific individual plant?] No.
[A Member of the cactus family?] I don't believe so.
[A very ancient tree?] No.
[Found in Africa?] No.
[Insectivorous?] Not to my knowledge.
A tree?
Used as a symbol or emblem?
'This here's the Wattle, the emblem of our land
You can stick it in a bottle, you can hold it in your hand
Kelp?
Begins with a P?
Better late than never
Mainly found in the tropics?
Is this a plant that, apart from its natural environment, is considered as a weed?
Les Réponses:
[A tree?] No.
[Used as a symbol or emblem?] I would call the answer emblematic, but as far as a nation's flag or team logo or something, No.
[Kelp?] No.
[Begins with a P?] YES.
[Mainly found in the tropics?] Mainly, no.
[Considered as a weed?] Certainly considered a nuisance.
Poison Ivy?
Primrose?
De Antwoorden:
[Poison Ivy?] No.
[Primrose?] No.
An aquatic plant such as pickerelweed?
A specie of thistle?
οι απαντήσεις:
[Aquatic?] No.
[A specie of thistle?] No.
A bush or shrub?
I thought irach had got it.
Pommegranite?
Coniferous?
Th' Ans'
[A bush or shrub?] No.
[Pom?] No.
[Coniferous?] No.
A type of grass?
BTW, when responding to 'Found in X' questions are you replying on the basis of 'native to' or 'at least 1 example grows there'?
Known for its flowers particularly?
FAQ
[A type of grass?] No.
[Known for its flowers particularly?] No.
[BTW] I have been trying to answer the questions as they've been asked. The VEGETABLE is not _mainly_ found in the tropics, and is _not_ aquatic. This may mean that at least one example may be found in tropical climes, but it means that it definitely does not grow under / in water. Is this what you meant?
Palm Tree?
Seed bearing? (as opposed to spore-bearing?)
Q&A
[Palm Tree?] No.
[Seed bearing?] Unknown. Applause from a single audience member who then wilts under the glares of the others
Nasty in some way such as prickly or poisonous?
Pipe-weed, a Middle-Earth plant, (smoked by hobbits with bad habits), as mentioned by JRR Tolkien ?
Does it have leaves?
Clarification on 'found in' is fine thank you
Answering Machine
[Nasty in some way?] Quite. A bit of laughter.
[Pipe-weed?] No. A lot of laughter, applause, and murmuring.
[Does it have leaves?] Yes.
Can it be smoked (and unlike Bill Clinton's claimed experience with a particular weed), actually inhaled?
A tobacco plant?
Ans her? I just met her!
[Can it be smoked?] No.
[A tobacco plant?] No.
Is any part of it edible?
Should we be paying attention to your aproposeses?
Does it "eat" insects?
Given that two of the last three questions have already been answered can we have a summary?
A dicotyledonous plant?
I apologize for the gap in answers, life has been a blur for the last two days.
Is it pineappleweed?
Pineapplweed
Is it a real, currently living plant?
Growing on the Earth, not extinct, not fictional (though that should be Abstract).
[Juxt] - Apology accepted, but you could have answered the outstanding questions at the same time.
Late Answers
Haste prevented me at the time. I have a terrible habit of remembering things only when I have no ability to address them.
[Is any part of it edible?] No.
[Should we be paying attention to your aproposeses?] I have attempted to relate accurately the reactions of the audience.
[Does it "eat" insects?] No.
[A dicotyledonous plant?] Unknown.
[Pineappleweed?] No.
[Is it a real, currently living plant?] No. As to category, I took my cue from Irach's latest outing - Fictional human, categorized simply as "Animal".
Summary
Vegetable. Alive by certain definitions, inedible, a specific plant, not found in the UK, not an individual plant, not a cactus, not an ancient tree, not found in Africa, not mainly found in the tropics, not aquatic, possibly an emblem, not a bush or shrub, not a thistle, not a type of grass, not known for it's flowers, definitely nasty, has leaves, cannot be smoked, not insectivorous, possibly a dicot, possibly seed-bearing, not a real, currently living plant, starts with P.
Not: wood, cucumber, a tree stump, bail, a wicket, kelp, poison ivy, primrose, pomegranate, a palm tree, pipe-weed, pinappleweed.
Found on earth?
Thanks for the summary
Hmm, irach got a bit of criticism for his categorisation at the time. But, then I don't claim to set the rules for this game.
Must be a ptrifid
But obviously isn't, i.e. I'm stuck.
Was this plant invented by JK Rowling?
Answers
[Found on earth?] No.
[ptrifid] Pno.
[Potter-ed plant?] No.
Phantom Fungus?
Is it from a book?
I have a horrible feeling that I'm not going to have heard of this one.
Is it from science fiction?
Aaaaaanswers.
[Phantom Fungus?] No.
[Is it from a book?] No.
[Is it from science fiction?] No.
Would this be a Paleozoic plant (e.g. a Progymnospermopsida)?
From a TV series?
Nswrs
[A a Paleozoic plant?] No.
[From a TV series?] The VEGETABLE has appeared in more than one tv series, but that is not the original source.
Puking tree of Mozambique?
Just clutching at straws now...
From a game of some sort?
Potato?
Getting warmer
[Puking tree of Mozambique?] No, but I wish I had picked that instead.
[From a game of some sort?] Yes!
[Potato?] No.
Pikmin?
I know nothing of Pikmin save the name, but it turned up on Wikipedia's list of fictional plants, so it's worth a try.
Piranha Plant?
See Jim's comment.
From "Plants vs Zombies"?
Fireworks
[Pikmin?] No, but an excellent guess
[Piranha Plant?] YES! Audience goes wild. The pipe-dwelling sharp-toothed menace from Super Mario Brothers. I'm sorry, but the baton appears to be in another castle. Please accept this 1-Up mushroom instead.
Well - never played the game, or seen anyone play it (actually I've never owned or held a games console, bizarre as that may seem to some people).

After that short interruption in services we restart with MINERAL with ANIMAL connections

A building?
[CdM] edifice? - NO
Means of transport
Mineral in its natural state?
[FGZstar] Lead balloon? - NO
[Rosie] Mineral in its natural state? - Hmm, I think the answer is YES, but I'm not sure what you mean by the question.
Metallic?
A fossilised material with embedded animal?
Made by man?
Fictional?
Mount Rushmore?
Where did that come from?
[FGZstar] - Metal? - NO
[Dujon] Fossil (with bits in)? - YES! (well, you could argue that it isn't a fossil and doesn't really have embedded animal - but that's being picky) (huge applause)
[GLogin] Man-made? - NO
[Juxtapose] - Invented? - NO - that would have been Abstract ;-)
[jim] Mt Rushmore? - NO
Crude petroleum ( "fossil" fuel) ?
[irach] Eau de Gulf? - NO (the audience is looking much more subdued)
A particular individual fossil?
[CdM] Individual fossil - YES (if you accept it's a fossil)
Begins with a "P"?
[pirach] The Tuj question? - There is at least one word begining with a 'P' on the card
A coal pit?
(Earlier question) I meant say, iron ore as opposed to stainless steel.
[Rosie] T'Pit? - Nay Lad - My answer to your earlier question stands, though it may be misleading.
Precambrian shale?
Does the answer include reference to a resinous preservative?
A geological feature?
The ruins of Pompeii?
Now on display at Fratton Park.
Homing in
[irach] Remnants of the pre-cambrian explosion? - NO
[Dujon] Resinous? - NO
[CdM] Rocky? - NO
[Rosie] Don't you think there's a bit more smoke than usual up there? - strictly speaking, NO, but the huge applause means that it's only fair to say that the word 'Pompeii' is on the card.
The Piltdown Man?
Pompeii and Herculaneum?
following Rosie's lead.
[FGZstar] You can't see the join? - NO
[Software] Pompeii and Herculaneum? - NO (the audience subsides)
An apology and correction
The response to Gusset Login's question some time ago - 'Made by Man?', should have been 'YES - to some extent'. I don't think it's actually put you much off the scent.
Pompeii ash?
Or the casts of the victims buried by Pompeii ash?
Nearly there
[irach] Put that cigarette out! - NO
[jim] Casts of victims - YES, but still needs a bit more precision
"Pompeii Plaster Casts" of victims
So close
[irach] You need to consider the answer to one of CdM's questions. If yours had been the words on the card I would have given the baton to jim.
The reconstruction of Pompeii and Herculaneum?
So we're talking a specific cast of a specific victim, then?
A plaster cast of a man-made object?
The man made plaster cast of the "Dog of Pompeii"?
To cut to the chase:
irach has it. It is The dog of Pompeii
I feel I lost the plot a bit there in that, although I knew when I set it that the object was a plaster cast of the natural void where the dog had been, I got that confused with a petrified object in some answers. Sorry.

A plaster cast of where a baton once was is passed on to irach.

Hot-diggity dog! Canis diggiti-calidae!. Me again? The next one is ABSTRACT with ANIMAL and some MINERAL connections.
Fictional?
The Adherence of the Repeated Meme?
[GLogin] Umm...hard one to answer...The entire phrase on the card is fictional in its overall abstract sense, but is based on a very real entity or phenomenon.
[FGZstar] No Meme. Not by a long shot.
Something to do with space travel?
A saying?
Single geographic location?
[Dujon] No space travel involved.
[Juxtapose] Yes, a saying.
[Software] Not a single geographic location.
Is the animal a domestic pet?
Raining cats and dogs?
[ImNotJohn] Definitely not a domestic pet, except to perhaps the most intrepid pet owner.
[Software] See above; therefore not feline and canine showers.
An Elephant in the room?
[FGZstar] No pachyderm involved, in the room, or otherwise.
Is the answer the title of some artistic work?
The cow jumped over the moon?
[CdM] No, not the Moo-na Lisa or any title of an artistic work.
[Rosie] A good guess, but no bovine-lunar connection here whatsoever.
Does the answer involve action, essentially?
Sneezing?
Is the animal an existing non-human species?
A Chinese proverb or an Aesop's Fable?
Is the animal, as it were, a fierce creature?
[Rosie] There is a verb signifying an action of some sort on the card.
[Dujon] Not sneezing.
[CdM] Yes, an existing non-human species.
[FGZstar] Not a Chiness proverb or Aesop's fable.
[jim] The reputation of the animal in question is definitrly fierce and/or scary.
Is the animal a member of the cat family?
Is the animal doing something that it would habitually do in the wild?
The lion was not so much fierce as was painted.
[Juxtapose] Not a feline.
[Gusset Login] In the literal sense, yes, doing what it does in the wild; in the abstract sense, not really.
[FGZstar] Not leonine.
Is it a mammal?
Live with wolves, and you learn to howl?
Does 'cooling the blood' come to mind?
[jim] Not a mammal.
[FGZstar] See above answer, therefore no. No Mowgli, or any dancing wth wolves.
[Dujon] Nothing involving an subtantial "cooling the blood" as far as I am aware.
Is the animal a shark?
[CdM] Not a shark.
Crying crocodile tears?
A Fish out of Water?
Is the animal an insect?
[GussetLogin] Not piscine.
[CdM] Not an insect.
[ImNotJohn] You got it! The exact words on the card! "Crying crocodile tears" it is! The crocodile baiting hook is passed.
Coo - me again!
Well, I was going to edge myself towards it, but I decided just to have a stab.
This one is simply Animal
Human?
[Software] Human? - YES - (I have awarded myself points for guessing the first question - and what do points mean?)
Alive?
Get the obvious ones out of the way...
Topical?
Points are measures of cider in Somerset, according to Jack Dee half an hour ago.
An association with football?
Raol Moat?
Female?
Younger than thirty?
[jim] Still with us? - NO
[Rosie] In the news? - NO, not particularly
[irach] Football Association? - NO
[FGZstar] Relate's man of the year? - NO
[CdM] Distaff? - NO
[Juxtapose] U30? - YES for 29 years and 364 days, then NO.
An author?
[irach] Author! Author!? - NO (he did have published and even prizewinning works, but that's not what you would know him for)
A clue!!
Aha! So his 30th birthday did not occur in the last ten months of a leapyear, or in the two following months!
Politician?
I knew I should have checked that
I was in a hurry, OK? However, the answer to Juxtapose, should have been 'YES for 29 years and 365 days, then NO'
[Projoy] Politician? - NO
An artist?
Nobel prize winner?
Albert Einstein?
[Rosie] Arty-farty? - NO
[Software] Up there with Kissinger? - NO
[FGZstar] Mrs Einstein's relative? - NO
Scientist and/or engineer?
[irach] Practical type? - NO
Born prior to 1850?
Disraeli?
[CdM] pre-1850 - NO
[SM] Dizzy? - NO
That's 9 NOs in a row, let's go for double figures.
Composer?
Political figure?
And on we go
[Rosie] Composer? - NO
[irach] Politician - NO (except in the very vaguest of senses - never elected, never held any political office)
Alfred Wainwright?
(Although I think you would have called him an author. He does fit the leapyear criterion, though!)
[CdM] The late great AW? - NO
Begins With a P?
Someone known for one particular feat?
Aww! You've spoiled it
[FGZstar] aka Tuj? - There is a word beginning with 'P' on the card (but you could get the answer without knowing that)
[CdM] One-hit-wonder? - YES (I'm sure he'd disagree, but history is cruel)
Royalty?
[FGZstar] Royalty? - NO *a little stirring in the audience*
The Artist Formerly Called Prince?
[Software] Tafkap? - NO
A religious figure?
[Irach] God-botherer (or god)? - NO *sounds of snoring from the audience*
A musician?
Nobility?
A sporting personality?
Progress
[FGZstar] Music Man? - NO
[GLogin] Nobility? - YES (well aristocracy, at any rate)
[CdM] Sporting Personality? - YES *a few exchanges of glances in the audience mixed with applause*
Pele?
[FGZstar] Senhor do Nascimiento (etc.)? - NO
Died in or around Munich?
British?
[FGZstar] Died in Munich? - NO
[irach] True Brit? - NO
The Nawab of Pataudi?
[Software] The Noob? - NO
To clarify: the audience reaction to the 'Sporting Personality' question needs to be borne in mind. I wasn't sure whether to answer yes or no to that question. Pele and the Nawab of Pataudi would definitely be Sporting Personalities.
Died within the last 20 years?
[FGZstar] Still warm? - NO
Died within the last 50 years?
[FGZstar] Died in last 50 years? - NO
A chess player?
American?
Percy McDonnell, or a Cricketer at least?
Under fifty years old at the time of death?
[CdM] Chess player? - NO, mate.
[irach] Yank? - NO
[FGZstar] Any of several thousand cricketers with a 'P' somewhere in the name? - NO (remember I said you wouldn't need the 'P' to get the answer - since I'm not going to insist you match the words on the card exactly)
[Juxtapose] Died young? - NO
A small clue in the form of a clarification: if CdM's question had been 'Sportsman?', the answer would have been 'NO'.
A sports commentator (in either a broad or narrow sense of the term)?
[CdM] Bill McLaren etc? NO (He would probably have said YES in the very broadest sense, but that's not why he's known)
A member of some sort of sporting organisational body, possibly the president?
Warming up
[FGZstar] Member/President of sporting organisation? - YES *Applause* You could quibble with the exact description but it's absolutely in the right area.
President of a sporting organisation?
Founder of some sporting organization?
Pierre de Coubertin?
[Rosie] Nice guess. I think you're right. At least it does seem to fit all the answers.
[Rosie] Correct! the words on the card are Pierre Frédy, Baron de Coubertin

One baton in the shape of a laurel wreath passed on.

Bit of a lurker's easy victory, given the clues. It had to be Coubertin, or possibly Jules Rimet.

Right - this one is essentially ABSTRACT.

Fictional?
(FGZStar) - NO, not fictional.
A scientific concept?
Artistic connection?
Yes, I thought it was pretty clear after FGZstar's key question. Interesting how difficult it was to home in on the area of importance.
Can you touch it?
I'm not saying anything. Whilst I concede that Rosie stated it first, I still must admit that I dislike the lurker's victory. No hard feelings, however, as I was convinced that the person in question had died within the last 50 years. I really must pay attention to the answers provided to my questions. I was thinking that it was a later president, anyway.
(CdM) - A scientific concept? - Hmm, the description is, but strictly NO. Nevertheless *cheers and applause from the audience*.
(FGZStar) - Tangible? YES, very much so, Gary.
It's normal to make some acknowledgement of a lurker's victory. The problem this time was that people were asking the questions before I had a chance to do so myself.
Electronic, possibly some form of microprocessor?
Is the thing that can be touched animal, vegetable or mineral?
Just trying to clarify the mysterious abstract but tangible.

It wasn't remotely a lurker's victory. Rosie had asked three prior questions in the round -- and even if he hadn't, he's a regular in the game, and the odd lurker's victory by a regular is no big deal. It's in the nature of AVMA that sometimes (probably most of the time) one person does the heavy lifting and opens up the answer for someone else.
Could this relate to silk cloth and glass rods?
(FGZstar) - NO, not electronic.
(CdM) - YES, one of the three, and most familiarly all three. The word on the card is Abstract in essence but can have a physical manifestation. Thanks for the endorsement, BTW.
(Dujon) (aside) He speaks in riddles. The answer is NO anyway.
Is the thing the sense of touch itself, as in the sense, which is tangible because it only exists when touching something?
(FGZstar) - NO, not the sense of touch.
Does the answer on the card contain a verb?
Air?
(Juxtapose) Contains a verb? - NO. Two words + the indefinite article.
(FGZstar) - NO, not air.
A printed document?
It's not another saying, is it?
(Software) - "Thank you for shopping at the Co-op"? - NO, not a document.
(FGZstar) - A saying? NO, not this time.
Does this have both a metphorical and literal meaning?
(CdM) Both metaphorical and literal? - NO, literal only.
Is it related to a physical phenomenon?
(INJ) - Related to a physical phenomenon? - In one particular case, YES, but otherwise the general answer would be NO. *some polite applause from certain members of the audience*.
Related to a specific emotion?
Would this, Rosie, describe some possible future event?
(Juxtapose) - NO, nothing to do with emotions. The abstract nature of the answer is of a completely different sort.
(Duj) - NO, not to do with the future.
Present in everyday life?
A naturally occurring phenomenon?
Essentially ephemeral?
(FGZstar) - Present in everyday life? In one sense, YES, but more realistically, well not really.
(CdM) A naturally occuring phenomenon? Well, not really a phenomenon but an otherwise honest answer is YES. *some vigorous applause*
(INJ) Ephemeral? Not really applicable but in some cases most certainly NO.

Then answer is one example of an abstract property of a material or imaginary object.

Affecting the colour or shape of the object?
(FGZstar) - Colour or shape of an object? YES. *vigorous applause*
A fuzzy navel?
(FGZstar) - Big Boy's Belly Button? Not really. Not at all, in fact.
Is it something that most people here will have experienced in some way?
Is it specifically just to do with colour?
A black look?
(CdM) - Experienced by the average Morniverser? - Mmm, difficult, that. You don't really experience it, but another answer could be YES.
(INJ) Specifically to do with colour? - NO.
(Softers) - If looks could kill - NO.
Specifically just to do with shape?
(FGZstar) - Just to do with shape? - YES. *Huge applause*
A square peg?
(irach) - Square peg - NO, nor even square.
A convex slope?
The fellwalker's curse.
A round belly?
A black hole?
Making the rounds?
A sharp edge?
A love triangle?
(INJ) - Can't see where I'm going? - NO.
(FGZstar) - Fat bastard? - NO.
(Softers) - The gateway to oblivion? - NO.
(irach) - "And how are we today?" - NO. (Not metaphorical).
(INJ) - Honed to perfection?- NO.
(all) - Equilateral promiscuity? - NO.

The answer is simply a shape, with no specific object implied, though one particular object strongly suggests itself.

A perfect circle, or a perfect square?
(FGZstar) - Circle or square? - NO
Is this some sort of crystaline structure?
(Dujon) - A crystalline structure? - NO.
Is the shape in question 2dimensional?
An oblate spheroid?
Diamond shaped?
(FGZstar and irach) - NO, because CdM has it. Well done. It's an oblate spheroid, a sphere that's fat round the middle. The obvious example is the earth, but any planet really, because they all rotate.
I hand the angular momentum to CdM.
ABSTRACT with ANIMAL, VEGETABLE and (perhaps) MINERAL connections
Starts with P?
P-begun? No.
Is the vegetable component a fabric?
Darwin's Origin of the Species?
Whole cloth? No.
Talking about an evolution? No.
A theory or hypothesis?
Theory or hypothesis? No.
Is the vegetable component usually a carrot?
Carrot? No. *audience laughter*
Phrase or saying?
Phrase or saying? No (technically I suppose the words on the card are a phrase, but not in the sense I understand you to mean).
A book?
Is the animal connection human?
An activity or event?
[FGZstar] I did the Origin of Species about 10 clues back...
Literary? No.
Oh, the humanity!? No.
Doing something? No.
Are the animal and vegetable elements edible?
Animal and vegetable elements edible? Yes. *some applause, mainly because the audience was getting bored*
A recipe?
A recipe? No.
Is the edibility of these elements important to the words on the card?
In other words it's not just happenstance.
The importance of being Edible? Yes *applause*
A knuckle sandwich?
Meat and two veg?
A square meal?
Mineral salt?
a TV dinner?
What, fisticuffs? No.
Filet mignon a la Bearnaise, mousseline d'asperges and chips?* No.
Pavé de boeuf? No. *some audience laughter*
See how they run? No.
Masterchef? No.

*Which is a reprise of the answer I gave last time someone tried that guess in an AVMA I was setting
A snack?
A 3 course meal, or 4 square meals a day?
Is the answer a description of a meal?
A nutritional concept?
Does it relate to a diet?
Afternoon elevenses? No.
Aperitif, main course, digestif OR breakfast, lunch, dinner, another dinner? No.
Mealy? No.
Nutritional? No.
Weight watchers? No. *laughter*
Just to clarify - my previous question was not restricted to a weight-loss diet.
A fat chance?
Does it relate to production rather than consumption, i.e. agriculture etc.?
Obesity?
Diet of worms? Still No.
Fluffy dice? No.
Production rather than consumption? It doesn't particularly relate to either. It doesn't have any connection to agriculture.
Obesity? No.

I think you need to ask more questions. You are going down some very specific lines of guessing based on very little information. So far, just to reprise, the only useful positive information you have is that the animal and vegetable connections refer to something that is edible (and that the edibility is relevant rather than incidental).
A figurative meaning?
Figurative? I think the expression on the card may occasionally be used in a figurative sense, but the best answer is No.
Any literary or artistic connections?
Arty? No significant literary or artistic connections that I am aware of.
I'm trying to think of a clue. One route to the answer is certainly by trying to find out more about the edible connection. In another sense, though, this idea is broader -- I could have specified essentially the same idea without any necessary reference to food at all.
"To live off the fat of the land"?
Fatland? No. Pretty clearly figurative, that.
Would the edible part be offensive in any way to either Jews or Muslims?
Not koshalal? No.
Is the aminal/vegetable connection a concoction of some kind (e.g. 'Toad in the Hole' or 'Haggis')?
Concoted? The AV connection is a prepared foodstuff of some kind, yes. *some scattered amused applause*
s/concoted/concocted. Also, by "foodstuff" I do not mean to imply a single ingredient (obviously enough, since there are both animal and vegetable connections).
To do with greed?
Is the foodstuff heavily processed?
Greed-related? You could perhaps make a connection but the best answer has to be No.
Heavily processed? Well, ingredients are combined and then cooked in a certain way. If that counts as heavily processed, yes. The ingredients themselves are also for the most part processed to some degree.
*retires for the nonent*
I love aminals
Does the answer describe a type of behaviour?
Spam?
Type of behaviour? No.
Spam? No
Curry related?
Vindaloo? No.
Do the words on the card describe an item?
An item? I suppose the answer is Yes, though "item" seems a slightly odd word in this context, given that the words on the card are describing something abstract.
By the way, as a follow-up to Rosie's question a while back, googling the phrase on the card does turn up one figurative use, and there may be others. But the one that shows up on a google search is pretty arcane (I'd never heard of it, and I would have been more likely to have come across it than most people here). So I don't think hunting for the figurative use will get you anywhere.
Eh?
Eh? No.
Anything to do with linguistics?
Linguisticky? No.
(I don't think this one is inherently terribly difficult. It's just no one has yet come up with a question that unlocks it in any real way. And no, that's not a clue.)
Any connection with politics /public affairs?
Connection with politics? No. (Actually, the figurative meaning that I alluded to earlier is associated with a particular public policy question/debate, but as I said, I really can't imagine that will help you.)
Can this be used to help people in everyday life?
Useful? No.
Any connection with economics?
Connected to economics? No.
Is it lickable wallpaper?
Lickable wallpaper? Nope. Not abstract enough.
When I was originally thinking of setting this I wanted to describe it simply as "this has animal, vegetable and mineral connections". Then I descided that it was still technically abstract.
Is colour involved?
Colour? No.
Is the food a dessert?
Progress!
Dessert? Not usually a dessert as such, but (almost always) sweet rather than savoury.
Food Pills?
Cake?
Food pills? No.
Cake? No (but a *smattering of applause*)
A sweet tooth?
Sweet tooth? No.
Brioche?
I'm sure I've seen an episode of QI in which Stephen Fry said that Marie Antoinette actually said "Let them eat Brioche, and so I wonder if that is the thing you are referring to?
Brioche? No. *another smattering of applause*. A reminder that the words on the card refer to something abstract, however.
As for let them eat brioche, I have seen that too. However, I actually ended up researching* that story recently, and discovered that historians think it unlikely that Marie Antionette actually said anything of the sort.

*Wikipedia
A croissant?
I did see something about a mathematical formula for a croissant shaped tissue expander, and thought it could maybe be that.
Croissant? No . *the smatterers provide another smatter, but more out of habit than anything else*
Pain Au Chocolat?
Pain au chocolat? No. *smatter*
breakfast?
Any type of pastry?
Is the shape of the foodstuff significant?
Breakfast? No, though this is frequently a breakfast foodstuff.
A pastry? Not technically, but sort of in the same space.
Significantly shaped? Yes! *the audience leaps to their feet and gives a relieved standing ovation*
Doughnuts?
Mmmm... Donuts....
The word doughnut appears on the card, yes. But remember you are looking for something abstract. *applause*
The hole in a doughnut
OK then!
Excuse the double post - but I left it nearly an hour
Phew!
The hole in a doughnut is correct! One baton bent into a circle and joined at the ends passed on. Not sure why that one took so long...
OK - I think it was to do with the abstractness of the answer which nevertheless had to be defined purely in terms of the non-abstract 'frame' (so to speak).
Anyway, having dealt with that without licking my lips I give you:
primarily VEGETABLE with Animal and Abstract connections
A turnip shaped like a thingy?
Any artistic connection?
[jim] Turnip for the books? - NO (Funny you should say that, because I've got....)
[CdM] Artistic connection? - YES *Sharp intakes of breath amongst the audience*
Made of wood?
Tracy Emin's bed?
Unique?
Decorative?
A form of pigment (e.g. paint)?
A lovely bunch of coconuts?
[Raak] Ligneous? - NO
FGZstar - Open to all-comers? - NO
[CdM] One is one? - YES
[Rosie] Ooh innit nice? - NO
[Dujon] Hogment? - NO
See them all a-standin in a row? - NO
Floral?
[Phil] Bloomin lovely? - NO
[flerdle] - sorry, didn't mean to miss your name off - have a clue as an apology:
I could have described it as Animal, Vegetable and Mineral with Abstract connections but thought the actual definition I used was more helpful.
Made of some sort of vegetable fibre?
A sculpture of someone made from vegetables?
Or the annoying orange?
[Raak] High-fibre? - YES
[FGZstar] Oh, you mean the sculpture is made from vegetables - NO
[ditto] Sarky seville? - NO (don't really understand the question, but I'm sure of the answer)
Fictional?
[jim] Made-up? NO (I'm one of those pedants who would call a fictional object 'Abstract')
Paper based product?
[Software] Papery? - NO
Clothing of some kind involved?
Are copies of the item available for purchase?
The 2012 Olympic Mascot?
Found in most households?
[FGZstar] clothing? Hmmm. I think I'm going to answer NO, but I could easily justify YES as well.
[CdM] Have you got that in pink plastic with fairy lights? - YES
[FGZstar] The Olymprick? - NO
[Phil] Domestic normality? - NO *some chuckles in the audience*
Is it worn for ornamental purposes?
[Raak] Prettifying? - NO *some more chuckles in the audience*
In case I didn't make it clear, the audience found my answer to CdM's first question controversial - some of you may think the same.
Used for recreational purposes?
[Phil] Plaything? - NO *audience etc.*
Is it larger than a telephone-box-sized representation of a toaster?
[CdM] Will he stop talking if I press this lever? - YES, Probably and NO
Made of cotton?
(CdM, INJ) I've told you two boys......
Are the copies the same size as the original?
Rosie] Really reely? - NO
[Raak] Life-size copies? - NO (in the vast majority of cases at any rate)
A building of some kind?
Should your answer to my previous question be interpreted as three answers, one for each dimension?
[FGZstar] A (very small) building? - NO?
[CdM] 3D? - YES (greater in 1 dimension, about the same in the 2nd and less in the 3rd)
(That's than a telephone box not a toaster.)
Is it foldable?
Is it rigid?
[CdM] Pliable? - YES *the audience is looking interested*
[jim] Board stiff? - NO
Is it a tapestry?
[Software] Gobelinish? - NO *a little ripple*
Closing in
I think this may now well be guessable from the information you have.
A rug, possibly sheepskin or shagpile?
Or a red carpet?
[FGZstar] Not any sort of floor covering.
Curtains, or maybe padded silk wallpaper?
It's all there, you know
[FGZstar] Decor? - NO
Check out CdM's first 2 questions again
Some form of designer Jute bag?
[FGZstar] Bagette? - NO (Not exactly unique)
Did the earlier audience reaction indicate that some would view this as a work of art but others would disagree?
[CdM] Yes, but is it art? - YES (and not on aesthetic grounds)
Tie Dye?
[FGZstar] Aging Hippie stuff? - NO *faint snoring heard from audience*
Has it been in a museum/gallery?
Is the colour(?) of this black?
Is this item located in Europe?
[Phil] In a museum/gallery? - YES (to a fairly broad interpretation of the words - it has been on public display.)
[Dujon] Black? - NO
[CdM] In Europe? - YES
I'll clarify my answer to Phil's question. To my (or wikipedia's) knowledge it has never been in a museum or art (or other) gallery. However it has on occasions been on public display in a dedicated space.
Is there writing on it?
[jim] Written on? - NO (actually there are claims that there is some writing on it, but I didn't know that when I set it - it's certainly not what you would think of).
Is there a religious significance to the item?
Aha!
[Phil] Imaginary friends? - YES *Prolonged and relieved applause from the audience*
The Shroud of Turin?
And the winner is...
[irach] You got it. The Shroud of Turin it is!

One slightly singed baton passed on.

[ImNotJohn] Thanks, but I am going to busy and away on business the next couple of days, so I'd like to pass the baton on in turn to Phil, who I really think was on to "The Shroud of Turin" as well with his question pertaining to the "religious significance" of the words on the card. So, Phil, it's all yours...
Ow!
*kicks self*
...third attempt to post without being interrupted
[irach] You really are too generous. I wasn't THAT close to the shroud, but I did have a feeling it was some kind of religious artefact. Given your unavailability and kid offer, I will gladly take up the baton on your behalf, for the first time in absolutely yonks!
Right, let's go for MINERAL, sometimes with a little vegetable
Is the vegetable wood?
Any precious minerals?
[Raak] Wood? YES, but not exclusively
[FGZstar] Precious minerals? NO
A naturally occuring substance?
A manufactured object?
Is the vegetable unintentional?
A geographical feature?
[Dujon] Natural? NO
[Rosie] Manufactured? YES
[Gusset] Accidental vegetable? NO
[INJ] Geographical feature? NO
Some form of building?
Maybe a skyscraper such as the empire stste building?
Bigger than a 4-slice toaster?
[FGZ] A building? NO *some interest from the audience*
[INJ] bigger than 4 slice toaster? YES, in all 3 dimensions
Is it a unique object?
A statue or Sculpture?
Maybe lady liberty?
A garden object?
Made of stone?
Is it primarily functional?
[jim] Unique? NO
[FGZ] Statue? NO
[Rosie] Garden object? NO
[GL] Primarily functional? YES *a tiny suggestion of applause*
Can you pick it up with one hand?
A signal of some kind?
Begins with a P?
[Raak] Pickupable-onehandedly? NO *giggles from audience*
[FGZ] Signal? NO
[Tuj] P...... ? NO
Made of concrete?
(Also, you missed INJ's related question.)
A steam locomotive?
[Rosie] I think that's what the psychiatrists call "transference".
Apols to [INJ] Made of stone? NO
[CdM] Made of concrete? YES *applause*
[Rosie] A steam loco? NO. alas
Unique?
Can a person go inside?
[Software] You think all but one have been destroyed since Jim asked?
Some other form of structure?
Such as a bridge?
Normally seen in groups?
(Rather than being used singly)
Usually found outside?
A concrete bollard?
[CdM] doh!
[Software] Still unique? NO
[CdM] Can a person go inside? YES *some applause mixed with mutterings from the audience*
[FGZ] Other form of structure? YES *same mix of sounds from the audience again*
[INJ] Seen in groups? NO
[GL] Usually outside? YES *gentle applause*
[Software again] Bollards? NO
Does it have an industrial purpose?
A shelter of some kind?
(CdM) Transference? Of course. But up to that point it fitted. :-)
A shed or barn of sorts?
[INJ] Industrial? NO
[Rosie] Shelter? NO
[irach] Shed/barn? NO
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