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AVMA Take 2
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Yes, it's another round of that classic guessing game - Animal, Vegetable, Mineral, Abstract [or any combination thereof]. This effort - '03/'04 should address any queries, but then again, may just serve to confuse and baffle which some might say is the point of the game. Patience, integrity and a decent search engine may be useful ....
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Crude petroleum ( "fossil" fuel) ?
[irach] Eau de Gulf? - NO (the audience is looking much more subdued)
A particular individual fossil?
[CdM] Individual fossil - YES (if you accept it's a fossil)
Begins with a "P"?
[pirach] The Tuj question? - There is at least one word begining with a 'P' on the card
A coal pit?
(Earlier question) I meant say, iron ore as opposed to stainless steel.
[Rosie] T'Pit? - Nay Lad - My answer to your earlier question stands, though it may be misleading.
Precambrian shale?
Does the answer include reference to a resinous preservative?
A geological feature?
The ruins of Pompeii?
Now on display at Fratton Park.
Homing in
[irach] Remnants of the pre-cambrian explosion? - NO
[Dujon] Resinous? - NO
[CdM] Rocky? - NO
[Rosie] Don't you think there's a bit more smoke than usual up there? - strictly speaking, NO, but the huge applause means that it's only fair to say that the word 'Pompeii' is on the card.
The Piltdown Man?
Pompeii and Herculaneum?
following Rosie's lead.
[FGZstar] You can't see the join? - NO
[Software] Pompeii and Herculaneum? - NO (the audience subsides)
An apology and correction
The response to Gusset Login's question some time ago - 'Made by Man?', should have been 'YES - to some extent'. I don't think it's actually put you much off the scent.
Pompeii ash?
Or the casts of the victims buried by Pompeii ash?
Nearly there
[irach] Put that cigarette out! - NO
[jim] Casts of victims - YES, but still needs a bit more precision
"Pompeii Plaster Casts" of victims
So close
[irach] You need to consider the answer to one of CdM's questions. If yours had been the words on the card I would have given the baton to jim.
The reconstruction of Pompeii and Herculaneum?
So we're talking a specific cast of a specific victim, then?
A plaster cast of a man-made object?
The man made plaster cast of the "Dog of Pompeii"?
To cut to the chase:
irach has it. It is The dog of Pompeii
I feel I lost the plot a bit there in that, although I knew when I set it that the object was a plaster cast of the natural void where the dog had been, I got that confused with a petrified object in some answers. Sorry.

A plaster cast of where a baton once was is passed on to irach.

Hot-diggity dog! Canis diggiti-calidae!. Me again? The next one is ABSTRACT with ANIMAL and some MINERAL connections.
Fictional?
The Adherence of the Repeated Meme?
[GLogin] Umm...hard one to answer...The entire phrase on the card is fictional in its overall abstract sense, but is based on a very real entity or phenomenon.
[FGZstar] No Meme. Not by a long shot.
Something to do with space travel?
A saying?
Single geographic location?
[Dujon] No space travel involved.
[Juxtapose] Yes, a saying.
[Software] Not a single geographic location.
Is the animal a domestic pet?
Raining cats and dogs?
[ImNotJohn] Definitely not a domestic pet, except to perhaps the most intrepid pet owner.
[Software] See above; therefore not feline and canine showers.
An Elephant in the room?
[FGZstar] No pachyderm involved, in the room, or otherwise.
Is the answer the title of some artistic work?
The cow jumped over the moon?
[CdM] No, not the Moo-na Lisa or any title of an artistic work.
[Rosie] A good guess, but no bovine-lunar connection here whatsoever.
Does the answer involve action, essentially?
Sneezing?
Is the animal an existing non-human species?
A Chinese proverb or an Aesop's Fable?
Is the animal, as it were, a fierce creature?
[Rosie] There is a verb signifying an action of some sort on the card.
[Dujon] Not sneezing.
[CdM] Yes, an existing non-human species.
[FGZstar] Not a Chiness proverb or Aesop's fable.
[jim] The reputation of the animal in question is definitrly fierce and/or scary.
Is the animal a member of the cat family?
Is the animal doing something that it would habitually do in the wild?
The lion was not so much fierce as was painted.
[Juxtapose] Not a feline.
[Gusset Login] In the literal sense, yes, doing what it does in the wild; in the abstract sense, not really.
[FGZstar] Not leonine.
Is it a mammal?
Live with wolves, and you learn to howl?
Does 'cooling the blood' come to mind?
[jim] Not a mammal.
[FGZstar] See above answer, therefore no. No Mowgli, or any dancing wth wolves.
[Dujon] Nothing involving an subtantial "cooling the blood" as far as I am aware.
Is the animal a shark?
[CdM] Not a shark.
Crying crocodile tears?
A Fish out of Water?
Is the animal an insect?
[GussetLogin] Not piscine.
[CdM] Not an insect.
[ImNotJohn] You got it! The exact words on the card! "Crying crocodile tears" it is! The crocodile baiting hook is passed.
Coo - me again!
Well, I was going to edge myself towards it, but I decided just to have a stab.
This one is simply Animal
Human?
[Software] Human? - YES - (I have awarded myself points for guessing the first question - and what do points mean?)
Alive?
Get the obvious ones out of the way...
Topical?
Points are measures of cider in Somerset, according to Jack Dee half an hour ago.
An association with football?
Raol Moat?
Female?
Younger than thirty?
[jim] Still with us? - NO
[Rosie] In the news? - NO, not particularly
[irach] Football Association? - NO
[FGZstar] Relate's man of the year? - NO
[CdM] Distaff? - NO
[Juxtapose] U30? - YES for 29 years and 364 days, then NO.
An author?
[irach] Author! Author!? - NO (he did have published and even prizewinning works, but that's not what you would know him for)
A clue!!
Aha! So his 30th birthday did not occur in the last ten months of a leapyear, or in the two following months!
Politician?
I knew I should have checked that
I was in a hurry, OK? However, the answer to Juxtapose, should have been 'YES for 29 years and 365 days, then NO'
[Projoy] Politician? - NO
An artist?
Nobel prize winner?
Albert Einstein?
[Rosie] Arty-farty? - NO
[Software] Up there with Kissinger? - NO
[FGZstar] Mrs Einstein's relative? - NO
Scientist and/or engineer?
[irach] Practical type? - NO
Born prior to 1850?
Disraeli?
[CdM] pre-1850 - NO
[SM] Dizzy? - NO
That's 9 NOs in a row, let's go for double figures.
Composer?
Political figure?
And on we go
[Rosie] Composer? - NO
[irach] Politician - NO (except in the very vaguest of senses - never elected, never held any political office)
Alfred Wainwright?
(Although I think you would have called him an author. He does fit the leapyear criterion, though!)
[CdM] The late great AW? - NO
Begins With a P?
Someone known for one particular feat?
Aww! You've spoiled it
[FGZstar] aka Tuj? - There is a word beginning with 'P' on the card (but you could get the answer without knowing that)
[CdM] One-hit-wonder? - YES (I'm sure he'd disagree, but history is cruel)
Royalty?
[FGZstar] Royalty? - NO *a little stirring in the audience*
The Artist Formerly Called Prince?
[Software] Tafkap? - NO
A religious figure?
[Irach] God-botherer (or god)? - NO *sounds of snoring from the audience*
A musician?
Nobility?
A sporting personality?
Progress
[FGZstar] Music Man? - NO
[GLogin] Nobility? - YES (well aristocracy, at any rate)
[CdM] Sporting Personality? - YES *a few exchanges of glances in the audience mixed with applause*
Pele?
[FGZstar] Senhor do Nascimiento (etc.)? - NO
Died in or around Munich?
British?
[FGZstar] Died in Munich? - NO
[irach] True Brit? - NO
The Nawab of Pataudi?
[Software] The Noob? - NO
To clarify: the audience reaction to the 'Sporting Personality' question needs to be borne in mind. I wasn't sure whether to answer yes or no to that question. Pele and the Nawab of Pataudi would definitely be Sporting Personalities.
Died within the last 20 years?
[FGZstar] Still warm? - NO
Died within the last 50 years?
[FGZstar] Died in last 50 years? - NO
A chess player?
American?
Percy McDonnell, or a Cricketer at least?
Under fifty years old at the time of death?
[CdM] Chess player? - NO, mate.
[irach] Yank? - NO
[FGZstar] Any of several thousand cricketers with a 'P' somewhere in the name? - NO (remember I said you wouldn't need the 'P' to get the answer - since I'm not going to insist you match the words on the card exactly)
[Juxtapose] Died young? - NO
A small clue in the form of a clarification: if CdM's question had been 'Sportsman?', the answer would have been 'NO'.
A sports commentator (in either a broad or narrow sense of the term)?
[CdM] Bill McLaren etc? NO (He would probably have said YES in the very broadest sense, but that's not why he's known)
A member of some sort of sporting organisational body, possibly the president?
Warming up
[FGZstar] Member/President of sporting organisation? - YES *Applause* You could quibble with the exact description but it's absolutely in the right area.
President of a sporting organisation?
Founder of some sporting organization?
Pierre de Coubertin?
[Rosie] Nice guess. I think you're right. At least it does seem to fit all the answers.
[Rosie] Correct! the words on the card are Pierre Frédy, Baron de Coubertin

One baton in the shape of a laurel wreath passed on.

Bit of a lurker's easy victory, given the clues. It had to be Coubertin, or possibly Jules Rimet.

Right - this one is essentially ABSTRACT.

Fictional?
(FGZStar) - NO, not fictional.
A scientific concept?
Artistic connection?
Yes, I thought it was pretty clear after FGZstar's key question. Interesting how difficult it was to home in on the area of importance.
Can you touch it?
I'm not saying anything. Whilst I concede that Rosie stated it first, I still must admit that I dislike the lurker's victory. No hard feelings, however, as I was convinced that the person in question had died within the last 50 years. I really must pay attention to the answers provided to my questions. I was thinking that it was a later president, anyway.
(CdM) - A scientific concept? - Hmm, the description is, but strictly NO. Nevertheless *cheers and applause from the audience*.
(FGZStar) - Tangible? YES, very much so, Gary.
It's normal to make some acknowledgement of a lurker's victory. The problem this time was that people were asking the questions before I had a chance to do so myself.
Electronic, possibly some form of microprocessor?
Is the thing that can be touched animal, vegetable or mineral?
Just trying to clarify the mysterious abstract but tangible.

It wasn't remotely a lurker's victory. Rosie had asked three prior questions in the round -- and even if he hadn't, he's a regular in the game, and the odd lurker's victory by a regular is no big deal. It's in the nature of AVMA that sometimes (probably most of the time) one person does the heavy lifting and opens up the answer for someone else.
Could this relate to silk cloth and glass rods?
(FGZstar) - NO, not electronic.
(CdM) - YES, one of the three, and most familiarly all three. The word on the card is Abstract in essence but can have a physical manifestation. Thanks for the endorsement, BTW.
(Dujon) (aside) He speaks in riddles. The answer is NO anyway.
Is the thing the sense of touch itself, as in the sense, which is tangible because it only exists when touching something?
(FGZstar) - NO, not the sense of touch.
Does the answer on the card contain a verb?
Air?
(Juxtapose) Contains a verb? - NO. Two words + the indefinite article.
(FGZstar) - NO, not air.
A printed document?
It's not another saying, is it?
(Software) - "Thank you for shopping at the Co-op"? - NO, not a document.
(FGZstar) - A saying? NO, not this time.
Does this have both a metphorical and literal meaning?
(CdM) Both metaphorical and literal? - NO, literal only.
Is it related to a physical phenomenon?
(INJ) - Related to a physical phenomenon? - In one particular case, YES, but otherwise the general answer would be NO. *some polite applause from certain members of the audience*.
Related to a specific emotion?
Would this, Rosie, describe some possible future event?
(Juxtapose) - NO, nothing to do with emotions. The abstract nature of the answer is of a completely different sort.
(Duj) - NO, not to do with the future.
Present in everyday life?
A naturally occurring phenomenon?
Essentially ephemeral?
(FGZstar) - Present in everyday life? In one sense, YES, but more realistically, well not really.
(CdM) A naturally occuring phenomenon? Well, not really a phenomenon but an otherwise honest answer is YES. *some vigorous applause*
(INJ) Ephemeral? Not really applicable but in some cases most certainly NO.

Then answer is one example of an abstract property of a material or imaginary object.

Affecting the colour or shape of the object?
(FGZstar) - Colour or shape of an object? YES. *vigorous applause*
A fuzzy navel?
(FGZstar) - Big Boy's Belly Button? Not really. Not at all, in fact.
Is it something that most people here will have experienced in some way?
Is it specifically just to do with colour?
A black look?
(CdM) - Experienced by the average Morniverser? - Mmm, difficult, that. You don't really experience it, but another answer could be YES.
(INJ) Specifically to do with colour? - NO.
(Softers) - If looks could kill - NO.
Specifically just to do with shape?
(FGZstar) - Just to do with shape? - YES. *Huge applause*
A square peg?
(irach) - Square peg - NO, nor even square.
A convex slope?
The fellwalker's curse.
A round belly?
A black hole?
Making the rounds?
A sharp edge?
A love triangle?
(INJ) - Can't see where I'm going? - NO.
(FGZstar) - Fat bastard? - NO.
(Softers) - The gateway to oblivion? - NO.
(irach) - "And how are we today?" - NO. (Not metaphorical).
(INJ) - Honed to perfection?- NO.
(all) - Equilateral promiscuity? - NO.

The answer is simply a shape, with no specific object implied, though one particular object strongly suggests itself.

A perfect circle, or a perfect square?
(FGZstar) - Circle or square? - NO
Is this some sort of crystaline structure?
(Dujon) - A crystalline structure? - NO.
Is the shape in question 2dimensional?
An oblate spheroid?
Diamond shaped?
(FGZstar and irach) - NO, because CdM has it. Well done. It's an oblate spheroid, a sphere that's fat round the middle. The obvious example is the earth, but any planet really, because they all rotate.
I hand the angular momentum to CdM.
ABSTRACT with ANIMAL, VEGETABLE and (perhaps) MINERAL connections
Starts with P?
P-begun? No.
Is the vegetable component a fabric?
Darwin's Origin of the Species?
Whole cloth? No.
Talking about an evolution? No.
A theory or hypothesis?
Theory or hypothesis? No.
Is the vegetable component usually a carrot?
Carrot? No. *audience laughter*
Phrase or saying?
Phrase or saying? No (technically I suppose the words on the card are a phrase, but not in the sense I understand you to mean).
A book?
Is the animal connection human?
An activity or event?
[FGZstar] I did the Origin of Species about 10 clues back...
Literary? No.
Oh, the humanity!? No.
Doing something? No.
Are the animal and vegetable elements edible?
Animal and vegetable elements edible? Yes. *some applause, mainly because the audience was getting bored*
A recipe?
A recipe? No.
Is the edibility of these elements important to the words on the card?
In other words it's not just happenstance.
The importance of being Edible? Yes *applause*
A knuckle sandwich?
Meat and two veg?
A square meal?
Mineral salt?
a TV dinner?
What, fisticuffs? No.
Filet mignon a la Bearnaise, mousseline d'asperges and chips?* No.
Pavé de boeuf? No. *some audience laughter*
See how they run? No.
Masterchef? No.

*Which is a reprise of the answer I gave last time someone tried that guess in an AVMA I was setting
A snack?
A 3 course meal, or 4 square meals a day?
Is the answer a description of a meal?
A nutritional concept?
Does it relate to a diet?
Afternoon elevenses? No.
Aperitif, main course, digestif OR breakfast, lunch, dinner, another dinner? No.
Mealy? No.
Nutritional? No.
Weight watchers? No. *laughter*
Just to clarify - my previous question was not restricted to a weight-loss diet.
A fat chance?
Does it relate to production rather than consumption, i.e. agriculture etc.?
Obesity?
Diet of worms? Still No.
Fluffy dice? No.
Production rather than consumption? It doesn't particularly relate to either. It doesn't have any connection to agriculture.
Obesity? No.

I think you need to ask more questions. You are going down some very specific lines of guessing based on very little information. So far, just to reprise, the only useful positive information you have is that the animal and vegetable connections refer to something that is edible (and that the edibility is relevant rather than incidental).
A figurative meaning?
Figurative? I think the expression on the card may occasionally be used in a figurative sense, but the best answer is No.
Any literary or artistic connections?
Arty? No significant literary or artistic connections that I am aware of.
I'm trying to think of a clue. One route to the answer is certainly by trying to find out more about the edible connection. In another sense, though, this idea is broader -- I could have specified essentially the same idea without any necessary reference to food at all.
"To live off the fat of the land"?
Fatland? No. Pretty clearly figurative, that.
Would the edible part be offensive in any way to either Jews or Muslims?
Not koshalal? No.
Is the aminal/vegetable connection a concoction of some kind (e.g. 'Toad in the Hole' or 'Haggis')?
Concoted? The AV connection is a prepared foodstuff of some kind, yes. *some scattered amused applause*
s/concoted/concocted. Also, by "foodstuff" I do not mean to imply a single ingredient (obviously enough, since there are both animal and vegetable connections).
To do with greed?
Is the foodstuff heavily processed?
Greed-related? You could perhaps make a connection but the best answer has to be No.
Heavily processed? Well, ingredients are combined and then cooked in a certain way. If that counts as heavily processed, yes. The ingredients themselves are also for the most part processed to some degree.
*retires for the nonent*
I love aminals
Does the answer describe a type of behaviour?
Spam?
Type of behaviour? No.
Spam? No
Curry related?
Vindaloo? No.
Do the words on the card describe an item?
An item? I suppose the answer is Yes, though "item" seems a slightly odd word in this context, given that the words on the card are describing something abstract.
By the way, as a follow-up to Rosie's question a while back, googling the phrase on the card does turn up one figurative use, and there may be others. But the one that shows up on a google search is pretty arcane (I'd never heard of it, and I would have been more likely to have come across it than most people here). So I don't think hunting for the figurative use will get you anywhere.
Eh?
Eh? No.
Anything to do with linguistics?
Linguisticky? No.
(I don't think this one is inherently terribly difficult. It's just no one has yet come up with a question that unlocks it in any real way. And no, that's not a clue.)
Any connection with politics /public affairs?
Connection with politics? No. (Actually, the figurative meaning that I alluded to earlier is associated with a particular public policy question/debate, but as I said, I really can't imagine that will help you.)
Can this be used to help people in everyday life?
Useful? No.
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