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AVMA Take 2
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Yes, it's another round of that classic guessing game - Animal, Vegetable, Mineral, Abstract [or any combination thereof]. This effort - '03/'04 should address any queries, but then again, may just serve to confuse and baffle which some might say is the point of the game. Patience, integrity and a decent search engine may be useful ....
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[Dujon] A scientist? NO
A writer?
Alive in the year 2001?
[Software] A writer? NO
[CdM] Alive in 2001? NO
A celebrity?
[Software] A celebrity? Hmmmm....if you mean "a famous person" then YES. But if you mean someone who seeks fame then NO.
A performer of any kind?
Alive in 1900?
[Rosie] Performer? NO
[GIII] Alive in 1900? NO
Famous largely for a single thing (is a single event rather than a whole career)?
[CdM] Famous for a single event? NO
A novelist or playwright (either)?
[Rosie] Novelist/Playwright? Neither
Someone who became accidentally famous?
[Software] Became famous accidentally? Tricky...probably YES *some interest from an intelligent audience*
Someone who was naturally reclusive?
Is there a sporting connection?
An academic?
Corpuschristitrimble.
[GIII] Naturally reclusive? I think I'll go for YES, although there could be some debate on "naturally".
[CdM] Sporting? NO
[Rosie] Academic? NO
A songwriter?
A Nobel Laureate?
[Rosie] A songwriter? NO
[Dujon] A Nobel Laureate? NO
A public servant?
[Rosie] Public servant? NO
An actor?
[GIII] An actor? NO
Some who makes things?
[Rosie] Makes things? NO
Did he live to more than fifty years old?
[CdM] Lived > 50yrs? NO
A soldier?
Were cyanide and an apple involved in this man's death?
[Rosie] A soldier? NO
[Dujon] Cyanide and an apple? NO

I'm tempted to give a clue, but I don't think it's needed just yet.

Did he give his name to something known by people of all ages?
[Rosie] Gave his name to something? NO
Eddie "the Eagle" Edwards?
grasping at straws
Notorious?
[Software] The Eagle? NO (no sporting connection)
[CdM] Notorious? YES *hearty applause*
Did he disappear?
A serial killer?
Criminal?
[GIII] Disappear? NO
[CdM] Serial Killer? YES *Even heartier applause*
[Projoy] Criminal? YES
British?
Hannibal the Cannibal?
[GIII] British? NO
[irach] Hannibal? NO
Did this man 'operate' from a shack somewhere in the U.S. of A.?
Mack the Knife?
[Dujon] Various questions asked, but I'm guessing that what you want to know is that the person in question is from the USA.
[Rosie] Mack the Knife? NO, it's a real person, as previously established.
The Boston Strangler?
[Software] Boston Strangler? NO
This shouldn't really take long, now that we've established that it's a real American serial killer, who lived in died in under 50 years, some time between 1901 and 2000.
A curious aside: no-one was ever arrested, charged or convicted of the "Boston Strangler" murders, and criminal theorists now believe that more than one person was involved.
Thanks Phil. That narrows it down to a hundred or so.
Fried?
That should narrow it down considerably.
Son of Sam?
Aka David Berkowitz
[IS,P!] Fried? If you mean did he fry his victims, then NO. If you mean was he executed on the electric chair, then also NO.
[INJ] Son of Sam? NO
Died of natural causes?
[Phil] Bollocks. I was sure it was Ted Bundy.
[IS,P!] Natural causes? NO
Was this 'gentleman's' fate (read death) brought about by a fellow prison inmate?
[Dujon] Done in by a fellow lag? YES *Intense applause*
Jeffrey Dahmer?
who I looked up last night on google, and have since been regretting ever reading about.
[Projoy] J. Dahmer? CORRECT! I thought that would go quicker, as he was the first serial killer that sprung to my mind. Not a terribly nice chap, but I do find the US police's attitude to their inept, racist, homophobic officers rather disgraceful and distasteful. Anyway, I hand over a baton made of nothing ghastly, thankfully.
So, Jeffrey Dahmer, then. Not exactly a name on everyone's lips. What proportion of the people in this country have ever 'eard of the bugger? The square root of a mouse's ear'ole, at a generous estimate. What on earth is the point of all this? There are better things to do than ferret around websites looking for the name, amongs hundreds, of American serial killers. The answer should be in one's head, if the spirit of the original game is to be followed. This game is a waste of time.
Yes but
As often happens, I find myself broadly in agreement with Rosie’s viewpoint, though not with his way of expressing it or conclusion. I lose interest in this game the moment it becomes evident that I’m going to have to start searching the web for the answer. I know others take the view that doing so is not unreasonable given the fact that this is an online game, so I won’t stop playing. However, if I get in again, I won’t select answers that I wouldn’t expect a good proportion of participants to know about.
Having said all that, I had heard of Jeffrey Dahmer, although it was only passive knowledge and I doubt if I would ever have dragged the name up without googling.
Over to Projoy
[INJ/Rosie] I apologise. I thought Jeffrey Dahmer was as well known as, say, Peter Sutcliffe, Myra Hindley, Harold Shipman et al. I didn't expect anyone to need to search the web to find the answer. It appears that I know a dangerously disproportionate amount about serial killers, and I did not intend that one to be so hard. My thought process was "Umm...what to do? I think I'll make it simple by just doing a person. Who shall I do? How about someone infamous rather than famous. Oh, I know...Jeffrey Dahmer." I even had a mental image of his photo in my head. Soz!
[Phil] You are obviously the person to have on one's pub quiz team - or are you the one who sets them?
Magnanimity
(Phil) A generous apology. The thing is that it is very frustrating, having scratched one's head throughout over what the answer could be, to find that you could never have got it in the first place. It's not as if I lack general knowledge, or was born, er, yesterday. On with the show, then.
Hm.
Well, I certainly had heard of Jeffrey Dahmer. I only resorted to google to get the fact about his being killed by another prisoner (which I didn't know). I certainly think of him as sufficiently infamous to be on the tip of people's tongues.

That said, I'm one of those who's happy to google and isn't disappointed to discover the answer was something I couldn't have guessed. For then I learn something new I did not know before and my life is just that bit brighter... and sometimes I still get to win the round despite only pretending to have known all along about the obscure answer. :-)

Anyway, my turn. This is something players may or may not have in mind already. ABSTRACT
Murder? ;-)
[Software] Both, actually - I write a quiz every week for the pub, so I tend to have a scant knowledge of a wide range of not terribly useful subjects.
Spring?
[Phil] And when dey met, it wuz... NO
[Rosie] Grass is riz? NO
To do with endings?
[Raak] Terminates here? NO
Homophobia?
Just a thought.
[Dujon] Filthy Prancing Shirtlifters? NO
A phrase or saying?
Connected with the arts?
[Phil] No apology required - my comment read as more critical than I intended. I was trying to agree with Rosie's general point rather than criticising your choice of subject, which may well have met my criteria for reasonableness. Casting my mind back, some of my subjects were probably not justifiable by those criteria anyway.
[Software] Linguistic trope? NO
[INJ] Artful? NO (only very tangentially and unhelpfully)
Scientific?
I know we keep having the same discussions over and over again in the morniverse. It may be one of its defining features. Still, this one is a more than a bit tiresome, because the discussion really is identical each time. Someone (usually Rosie, to be honest) complains that the chosen subject was unsuitable because they hadn't heard of it, and they conjecture that most others have not heard of it either. Someone else (often me, to be honest :-) ) observes that there is no requirement for this game to follow the "spirit of the original game", because this game is on the internets, where we have search engines. Can we just agree to disagree on this one, and accept that people have different standards for what makes a reasonable/good subject?

I'd add two points. First, I think Rosie may have actually misjudged Dahmer's notoriety. I certainly knew of him, and I suspect the majority here have heard of him as well (which probably says something good about Rosie and bad about the rest of us, come to think of it). Second, this is an international community, so I don't think the trivia of "this country" should be privileged: in the global scheme of things, I expect that Dahmer is much better known than Sutcliffe, Shipman or Hindley.
Specific to a single culture?
[CdM] Point taken - and I think my lack of knowledge about Dahmer probably reflects on me (I do tend to avoid that sort of story). That said; to me, googling to get the answer feels like cheating.
A human concept?
I'd never heard of him but I did Google-up 5 US serial killers wiped out in jail. I do, however, suspect that Shipman and Hindley are much better known this side of the pond.
[CdM] Scientific? IN BROAD TERMS
[INJ] Specific to a single culture? NO
[Software] A human concept? YES *some discontented muttering from epistemologists*
Mathematical?
[INJ] To be clear, if something can't be guessed with good questioning and a little googling, then I too would judge it a bad subject. I gave up on my experiment of using randomly generated topics from Wikipedia because they too often failed that test (an Estonian province comes to mind...).
[Software] Well, for some definitions of "this side" and "pond", yes. Very possibly not for my current definitions of those terms. Which was my point.
[CdM] Numbery? NO
Learning?
Could we please cease to comment on the previous challenge? Thanks.
Connectivity?
[Dujon] Learning? NO *a ripple of interest in the audience*
[Rosie] Connectivity? NO
Medical?
[Chalky] Medical? KIND OF *a couple of claps from the audience*
An idea?
[SW] An idea? YES, a sort of idea.
Related somehow to the discussions raised by the previous topic?
Sorry Dujon!
[Biggsy] Related to the Internet vs. Rosie's general knowledge, and which is better debate? Thankfully, NO.
Hm. Rosie's General Knowledge and The Internet. They're both rather marvellous bases for games... but which is better? There's only one way to find out!
Something to do with mental processes?
[Rosie] Mental processes? YES! *applause*
Would this have a direct relationship to the lore of the Australian Aborigine?
Risk aversion?
[Dujon] Dreamtime? NO
[Rosie] Risk aversion? NO
Is the answer a term for the analysis of certain mental processes?
A Freudian slip?
Memory?
[Rosie] Term for Analysis? NO
[irach] Saying one thing but meaning a mother? NO
[Phil] Memory? YES! But that's not the whole answer *muchos applausos*
Genetic memory?
[Dujon] Twisted to fit? NO
Nostalgia?
Projoy, you know perfectly well that my stockings are always seamless or straight. ;-)
[Dujon] Nostalgia? CLOSE! *"ooooh" from audience, and collective intake of breath, causing momentary decompression and fainting spells*
Long-term memory?
[Phil] Long-term? NO a couple of applaus.
Collective memory?
[Software] Collective? NO.
Folk memory?
[CdM] Recollections of The Seekers? NO
Is this a one-word answer?
[Chalky] Monolexical? NO. The word "memory" is on the card with one other word + an article.
A Recovered Memory?
Distant memory?
...Should have read "A Distant Memory?
A false memory
IIRC
[Rosie] A recovered memory? NOT QUITE, but you're practically treading on its tail now.
[irach] Distant memory? NO.
[Software] A false memory? YES! That is the exact answer I started with on the card... or at least... I think it was.
You know, I could have sworn I put a line under that last move.
I find myself winning again. That's a bummer, now I'll have to think of something. Wait there, I'll be back in a jiffy.
[Projoy] I was awake all last night trying to remember the proper word for memory loss...I ended up with insomnia...
I am obviously completely out of kilter with you lot, having never heard of the phrase 'false memory'...
;-)
[Chalky] Don't worry, you're in kilter with me...I'd never heard of it before either. Actually, you might want to worry, on reflection.
[Phil] Not even in the phrase "false memory syndrome" (a frequently occuring concept in crime stories!)
I'm fairly sure I've heard of false memory....fairly sure....
I knew it at one time - or did I?
[Projoy] No. Not until I looked it up - I don't read much any more, alas :-(
Got it!
Abstract with Animal, Vegetable and Mineral connections.
"An Iron hand in a velvet glove"?
A religious icon of some sort or other?
Software, you really must realize that this is a family friendly site and that the word 'vegetable' should never have any less prominence than the words 'meat' and 'three'. I bet you hate Brussels sprouts, cabbage and cauliflower too. ;-)
Animal human?
(Duj) And so do I. I'd rather chew on a baby toad.
This game?
[Irach] Saw? NO
[Duj] Iconic? NO
[Rosie] Manly? YES
[Phil] Morniverse? NO
An invention?
Related to athletic pursuits?
[Rosie] I love vegies, Brussels Sprouts in particular.
[Rosie] Genius? NOish
[Duj] Humping? NO
An activity?
IT-related?
Including software.
[INJ] moving? NO
[Rosie] Me related? NO - audience mermers
Someone involved in the theoritcal construction of what we now know as a computer?
[Duj] Virtual Babbage? NO.
Does the animal lend its name to this?
Related to the Arts?
(defined as widely as you like)
Does what some animals do lend its name to this?
Does it begin with a P?
** Back from London conference **
[Rosie] Animal cracker? NO
[Duj] Beastly habits? In a loose kind of way, YES
[ISP] P? NO, not a one.
Is this a physical process?
[Rosie] A process? NO
[ISP] a slight update, there is actually a word beginning with P in the phrase
Is it a single specific mineral?
And my previous question as well please - (Arty?)
[INJ] Arty? NO; Specific mineral? NO
Would this be a mariner's term?
[Duj] A term? YES! but not a mariners
specific to a profession or trade?
[INJ] Trade or Profession oriented? Well, in a way, YES!
Would this be a verancular expression - such as 'taking the piss'?
[Duj] Mickey? NO. Hint: This is a 3 word phrase very much in the news at present.
Pigs might swim?
The Credit Crunch
Someone had to say it
[INJ] Cash shortage? NO. Not the words on the card but on the right track.
It's terribly, terribly quiet in here, Software. Perhaps all are awaiting the answer to my last?
[Duj] Swine fever? NO. [I've been on holiday :o)]
Popeye Eats Spinach?
This one was 'set' on 24th March - 7 flippin weeks ago!
[Softers] Bearing the above in mind - is your clue/hint still valid?
Is it related to the world financial situation?
[Chalks] Bluto? NO! (Welcome back, Chalky. Yes, it is still valid)
[INJ] Money, money, money? YES!
To do with MPs' expenses?
Simply gotta be.
sub-prime mortgages?
[Rosie] I think this clue pre-dates the breaking of that scandal.
[Rosie] Parliamentary rip-offs? NO. INJ has it in a nutshell, this game has been like the Mouse Trap.
[INJ] Toxic debt? NO. much less specific to the current times
Is the word "recession" on the card?
[Projoy]Lack of business confidence? NO.
To do with a healthy economy?
[Projoy] Boyancy? YES! actually can cut both ways but essentially correct
Inflation?
(it probably says something about my age that I associate inflation with economic health)
[Projoy] Bulging cost? YES Remember 3 words on the card !! have we made this a private game? ;o)
Any reference to bubbles?
Retail Price Index?
The housing boom?
Ding!

Passes the baton over to Chalks. Nice to see you back and in fine form!

[Softers] Thanks mate :-) Delighted and all that.
However, is this a poisoned chalice/baton I be picking up? I really don't want to set a new one unless I know for sure that all interested parties are going to play nicely and in a regular manner. [In otherwords: I'm not sure if I can sustain a chairpersonship for 9+ weeks - which is what you had to do]
Patience is a virtue ...
or so it's oft said. Just dive in the deep end and let it flow. I'm sure some people will play.
Oka-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-ay. I shall keep it simple

A N I M A L
Alive?
[Projoy] Alive? YES
Human?
[Graham III] Human? YES
Man?
An entertainer?
Promises to play nicely.
British?
That's m'girl :o)
[Kim] Man? YES
[Rosie] Entertainer? YES
[Software] British? YES
Does he work mainly on television?
[Raak] Television? YES
Involved in panel games?
6 consecutive YES's must be near a record.
[Rosie] Panel gamer? YES
7 yes's!
On "Have I Got News For You"?
Does he speak fluent Khosa?
[Raak] HIGNFY? At some point - YES
[CdM] Fluent Khosa [Xhosa?] That's two questions. Please re-submit your question and play nicely from here on in.

:)
Has he been chairman of HIGNFY?
very well -- Does he speak?
And, yes, Xhosa seems to be the much more common spelling, though both are in use
keeping it simple
[Rosie] Chairman of HIGNFY? NO
[CdM] Does he speak? YES
A comedian?
(CdM) But can you speak it without causing yourself grave injury? If so, you should have no problem with Machynlleth.
[Rosie] A comedian? YES - amongst other things
A chat show host?
Paul Merton?
Stephen Fry?
He does everything else, so why shouldn't he be the answer to this as well?
Richard E Grant?
Alistair McGowan?
Begins with a P?
"...all interested parties are going to play nicely and in a regular manner..." check
keeping it very simple
INJ is correct!
So I don't have to reply to all the other attempts. Even yours, Tuj :)

It gives me enormous oodles of delicious pleasure to hand the baton over to a deserving winner - ImNotJohn
That's more like it
Has the blessed Mr F never been a guest chairman of HIGNFY? Seems unlikely.
Anyway, the next one is Mineral
FeS2?
Because it begins with P
[Rosie] I can make a passably good attempt at Macheelinneth. Remember, I am half-Welsh. :-)
[CdM] Fool's gold? - NO
A manufactured object?
[Raak] Manufactured? - YES
Mineral = metal?
Well done Chalky! It must be your female wiles that can encourage such a swift result ;o)
A portable device?
(CdM) Nice one. :-) I believe you, BTW.
Rock?
[INJ - Unlikely but true. In this forum, I would never post a reply without checking the facts first -- you are all way too canny :)
Here is a Wiki quote: "In April 2003, three-time guest panellist Stephen Fry announced that he was boycotting the show following the sacking of Angus Deayton. Fry described Deayton's disposal as "greasy, miserable, British and pathetic"."]
[Software] Metallic? - NO
[Rosie] Portable? - NO some chuckles in the audience
[Chalky] - Rocky? - YES [Re SF - Actually, now you remind me, I do vaguely remember that.]
A portaloo?
hmmm
[Raak] Portable, partly metallic structure with no rock in it? - NO
A tunnel?
(Chalky) Fry was right, even if Deayton is not everybody's cup of tea.
Related to fire but not necessarily fired?
Artistic?
[Rosie] Tunnel? - NO
[Dujon] Flambé? - NO
[CdM] Artistic? - NO (some murmurs in the audience)
Found in the UK?
[Software] UK-located? - NO
Is this a specific individual object?
[Raak] Specific individual object? - YES
The Great Wall of China?
The Colluseum?
100% rock?
[Rosie] Mah Jong setup? - NO
[Software] Colosseum? - NO
[CdM] The rock, the whole rock and nothing but the rock? - YES (technically I don't know that, but don't worry)
Is it a work of sculpture?
Does it have a specific purpose?
Rock of Gibralta?
A rather large carving?
homing in
[Raak] Sculpture? - YES
[CdM] Specific purpose? - It may have had, but I don't know it
[Chalky] Herculean Pillar? - NO
[Dujon] Large Carving? - YES (Applause)
The Sphinx?
The riddle is solved
We have a winner! The Sphinx it is.

The baton is passed inscrutably to Software.

Oh, no. Not me again! Hope it doesn't take 6 weeks this time!
Let me think ...

Ah, I know!

Abstract with Animal, Vegetable and Mineral connections.

Animal connection human?
The sign that swings outside Phil's pub?
Connected with the arts?
[Rosie] Human? - YES
[Duj] Hostelry? - NO
[IMJ} Arty-Farty? - YES
Theatrical?
Musical?
Pictorial?
Narrative?
Topical?
Human connection a single individual?
[CdM] Luvvies? - YES
[Rosie] Bandy? - NO
[Raak] Talky? - NO (well, maybe a bit)
[Duj] Newsey? - YES (in the UK at least)
[INJ] Loner? - YES
On television?
Is The Answer the title of a play?
[Projoy] Play - Not a play exactly but YESish
[Raak] TV? -YES
Does the name of the loner appear as part or all of the title?
The Fall and Rise of Reginald Perrin?
[CdM] see below -
[Rosie] Boing! Spot on!

Discretely hands the baton over to Rosie!

[Rosie] Good luck putting that baton back together. :-)
(CdM) That's TNT for you.

This one is MINERAL, sort of. Should be fairly easy.

Mineral = stone?
Tangible?
(Softers) - Stone? - No, not as we recognise it.
(CdM) - Tangible - *audience hilarity* I wouldn't try.
Lava?
Salt?
Raak - Not lava.
Sierra Mike - Salty? Ha-Harrr! Not loikely, me dearie.
Related to nuclear fission?
Dujon - NO, not fission.
Is it deep underground?
Extraterrestrial?
Raak - NO, nowhere on the Tube.
(Softers) - YES, most certainly. *audience applause*
Pluto?
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