mc5 - AVMA Take 2

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AVMA Take 2

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Yes, it's another round of that classic guessing game - Animal, Vegetable, Mineral, Abstract [or any combination thereof]. This effort - '03/'04 should address any queries, but then again, may just serve to confuse and baffle which some might say is the point of the game. Patience, integrity and a decent search engine may be useful ....

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Is it related to a game or pastime?

Related to the military?

(Dujon) An occupation - YES
(CdM) Any collective nouns? NO.
(Irouléguy) Particular country or culture? No, but certainly more prevalent in some cultures.
(Softers) Written word? YES. *vigorous audience applause*
(Bigsmith) Game or pastime-related. Can be, but certainly not necessarily. *some scattered hesitant applause*
(Raak) Militarily related? NO.

Second thoughts

The audience could possibly have made a bit more of Bigsmith's question.

Connected with education?

Are there TWO words on the card in addition to the indefinite article?

(INJ) Connected with education? NO.
(Chalky) Two words plus indefinite article? YES.

Do either of the two words begin with P? :-)

A sci-fi writer?

(Chalky) Pinitial? - Psorry but NO.
(Phil) NO, not sci-fi.

A Poet Laureate?

(irach) The poet Laurie ate? NO. *cruel audience laughter*

A Weather Forecaster?

(Chalky) Not a forecaster. (See Softers' last question).

Are puzzles involved?

(Dujon) Puzzles? NO.

related to journalism?

A critic?

(INJ) Related to journalism? Strictly speaking no, but there is frequently a connection. *audience applause*
(Softers) Not a critic.

An author?

Related to the law?

A Movie (or Theatre) critic?

(Phil) Author? A case could be made out for YES. *applause*
(Kim) Not law-related.
(irach) Not any kind of critic. (see Softers' last question).

A sports writer?

A ghost writer?

(Softers) Could be, but not the words on the card.
(irach)_ A GHOST WRITER it is. Well done, as long as it's your own words. :-). Over to you; make it easy.

Okay, this one is ABSTRACT WITH MINERAL CONNECTIONS

Coal mining?

[Rosie] Not coal mining.

A human concept?

Neil Young's 'After the goldrush'?

Between a rock and a hard place?

[Software] Not as such.
[Irouleguy] No. [Bigsmith] No. (Smattering of audience attention)

Visible in nature?

[Kim] Figuratively, yes....

Ahem...

Begins with a P?

Is it a saying?

[Tuj] Ahem...Ahem... No.
[Graham III] Yes, a saying of sorts.

Does it involve a natural feature?

{Rosie] Not so much a natural feature as a natural object.

Is the mineral rock?

A gold mine?

Are precious metals involved?

[ImNotJohn] The mineral component is composed of rock, but not the word "rock" per se.
[Software] Not a gold mine.
[Kim] No precious metal.

A stone's throw?

[Software] You got it! Close enough and yes, cigar."Just a Stone's Throw Away" were the exact words on the card.

P

This round begins with a "P".

Perfect :)

Looks to me like it began with a T.

[CdM] Hmm, I think you're right. Maybe we should wait 'til it's penelope's turn to set one.

Who? Me?

Well I never! I actually guessed it!!

Mmmm, bu**er! That means I'll have to think of something.

I know!

ABSTRACT with ANIMAL, MINERAL and VEGETABLE connections.

Anarcho-Syndicalist Recipe for Pot-roast?

One day, mark my words....!

Does it appear in the works of Douglas Adams?

A television series?

Does it start with a B?

[Tuj] ;-Q

Raak - No, but could easily have done so :o).
Tuj - No.
G III - B? No.

"The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe"?

Is it unique?

[GIII] Well, what face are you pulling there?

A human construct?

An imaginary planet from a science-fiction novel?

Tuj] I think it's 'tongue-in-cheek'.

irach: Nope.
Tuj: Well, yes and no. * audience mutters *
Rosie: Yes, absolutely.
Iro: No.

Is the answer the title of an artistic work?

I'm assuming that Anarcho-syndicalist watsit was off the mark....

Anything to do with the current banking crisis?

Kim: - That's a matter of opinion, but the least misleading answer is No.
Rosie: - Yes.

Is it a collaterised debt obligation?

A sub-prime mortgage?

Is it a financial vehicle?

G III: - A what? er No.
Raak: - No. * audience mutters *
IMJ: - Not a financial vehicle.

Is the vegetable connection paper?

A set of rules or protocols?

CdM: - Yes
Rosie: - No.

A legal document?

Is the word "money" in the answer?

Frozen pig belly futures?

Don't believe me?

Hmm, case of the disappearing web reference. Try Here

Dow Jones' Industrial Average

The Financial Times?

Raak: - Not a free lunch for a lawyer, No.
Tuj: - Not as such, No.* audience stirs *
G III: - Interesting, but No.
irach: - No. * audience nervous laughter *
Phil: - No.

Monetary policy?

Is a particular currency part of the answer?

The RPI?

Was it originally 3 pages long?

CdM: - No.
Irouléguy: - No.
Raak: - No.
G III: - No.

Payment in cash?

Was it something that the typical player of this game was likely to have given much thought to a month or more ago?

Rosie: - No. * audience chuckles *
CdM: - It's probably something that has been on many a morniverser's mind, so Yes.

"The stock market"?

Anything to do with pensions?

Is the answer an abbreviation?

Anything to do with mortgages?

Is Tuj an abbreviation?

Any chance that you might answer the questions by indicating which question you are referring to?

The credit crunch?

Do the paper and mineral connections refer to money?

irach: - No. * audience mutters *
Tuj: - No.
Kim: - Yes. * a few claps from the audience *
Chalky: - I didn't think there was any ambiguity.
Irouléguy: - Spot on! YES. Over to you!
CdM: - Close, but no cigar.

*steeples fingers* Ex-cellent! Smithers, throw another pauper on the fire.

OK, our next is ANIMAL or VEGETABLE or MINERAL, or possibly a combination thereof.

McDonald's Meal?

Michael Jackson?

irach] McDonald's Meal? No
Tuj] Michael Jackson? Nice one - but no

Human animal?

Is this one thing in three or more different versions?

Is it always the same size/shape?

Software - Human animal? No
Rosie - Is this one thing in three or more different versions? *murmurs of approval from the audience* Yes, though the versions part is a bit of a red herring.
Tuj - Is it always the same size/shape? *hum of discussion in the audience* Size, no; shape - umm, sort of.

Glue or Adhesive? It can be derived from animal, vegetable or mineral.

Would this be a carving?

I do not mean the head of the house at Sunday dinner.

Manufactured?

[Software] I think you may have misread my extremely awkwardly worded penultimate question in your round, but no matter. :-)

(or maybe not, I suppose -- I think that there was more credit crunch talk in the UK than in many other places following the Northern Rock failure...)

# irach] Glue or Adhesive? It can be derived from animal, vegetable or mineral. *applause* No, though glue or another adhesive could well be involved.
Dujon - Would this be a carving? No
CdM] Manufactured? Yes (though not necessarily machine-made)
CdM] I think you're right the second time - my guess was a response to yours and Rosie's questions together, so Softers' answer worked.

Can one make one of these things oneself?

Rosie] Can one make one of these things oneself? *applause* Yes

Is it a one-word answer?

Tuj] Is it a one-word answer? One word plus an indefinite article

Have you made one of these things?

Is it decorative rather than functional?

CdM] Have you made one of these things? Yes, though not very well.
Rosie - Is it decorative rather than functional? No - the other way round.

Hint - sometimes it's plural rather than singular.

Is the animal connection in the form of a material, like leather?

Is it an item of clothing?

Software - Is the animal connection in the form of a material, like leather? * loud applause* Yes
Kim - Is it an item of clothing? *muted applause* No

Is it an item of footwear?

A bag or similar functional container?

Kim - Is it an item of footwear? No
irach - A bag or similar functional container? No

A belt?

Is the animal material actually leather?

irach - A belt? Yes
Rosie - Is the animal material actually leather? It could be, but not necessarily.

An item of national dress?

Graham III - An item of national dress? No

Suspenders?

irach - Suspenders? No

Is this an article into which an object (or objects) are inserted?

I am thinking here about tool belts, bandoliers, holsters and their ilk.

Dujon] Is this an article into which an object (or objects) are inserted?
Interesting guess, but no. Some of those things might have one (or more) of these, though.

Hint the second - it's not any type of undergarment.

A watch strap?

Would it normally be worn by a person?

(Rather than an animal)

Software - A watch strap? No
ImNotJohn - Would it normally be worn by a person? Person rather than an animal, yes - but it's not 'worn' as such.

Is it associated with a particular profession?

Graham III] Is it associated with a particular profession? No

A buckle or similar fastener?

Garters?

A dog tag?

Fanny Pack? Bum Bag?

CdM] A buckle or similar fastener? *some applause* No
Rosie] Garters? No
Software] A dog tag? No
irach] Fanny Pack? Bum Bag? Nono

A safety harness?

A seat belt?

Rosie - A safety harness? An interesting guess, but no
irach - A seat belt? Hardly

A bandolier?

A noose?

Is its primary function to attach something to some other thing (for a broad definition of thing)?

Also, does it begin with P?

Phil]A bandolier? Er, no
Graham III - A noose? My word, no
CdM - Is its primary function to attach something to some other thing (for a broad definition of thing)? *applause* Attaching - yes, sort of. Something to something else - no.
CdM - Also, does it begin with P? No (though it was Tuj who gave me the idea).

Dog leash?

A knee pad?

irach] Dog leash? No
Software] A knee pad? No

As CdM is wont to say, examine your assumptions. There's one assumption in particular that is leading people in the wrong direction.

A pair of hand cuffs?

Or any other sort of bondage equipment?

Is it usually part of a larger item?

Oh dear.

A Conveyer belt?

Graham III] A pair of hand cuffs? No (vegetable hand-cuffs?)
Raak - Or any other sort of bondage equipment? No, perfectly SFW
Tuj - Is it usually part of a larger item? *applause* Yes, always
irach - A Conveyer belt? No

A collar?

they could be made of string? Not necessarily good hand-cuffs, but hand-cuffs all the same.

Graham III - A collar? No
Hand-cuffs] Touché

A dressing gown cord?

Is it elastic?

When you made this thing, did you also make the larger item?

I think it is INJ who is wont to want you to examine your assumptions.

Graham III] A dressing gown cord? No
ImNotJohn] Is it elastic? No (hypothetically, I suppose it could be)
CdM - When you made this thing, did you also make the larger item? *murmurs of 'Good question' from the audience* No. If you made the larger item, you would also make this (or these) in the process, but people will also make (or remake) this (or these) having bought (or otherwise acquired) the larger item.

Apologies for any false attribution - it's good advice, whoever said it.

Is it decorative?

Graham III - Is it decorative? It can be, but it's primarily functional.

A saddle?

Is it used to carry something?

OK – let’s try to see what we know:
It is a belt but it is not worn as such and is not an item of clothing. It is a part of a larger whole, but can be made separately (a replaceable part?) It may be made of A, V or M and is always ‘sort of’ the same shape although the size can vary. If Animal this could be leather. Manufactured although not necessarily by machine. Irg has made one. It is functional rather than decorative. It has some 'sort of' connection with 'attaching' but not of one thing to another (still slightly confused by that). The answer is one word plus the indefinite article, but this could exist in the plural. It is not normally elastic (although that is not impossible). It does not normally contain or hold other things (bandolier, tool belt)
It is not: a buckle or fastener (applause), garters, dog tag or leash, safety harness, seat belt, handcuffs or other bondage gear, a conveyor belt or a number of other things excluded by the things we know.

Is it a drive belt?

Raak] Is it a drive-belt? YES! (Specifically a fanbelt, but that's good enough).Apologies for the 'connecting one thing to another' answer, which I think was wrong now - I was trying to get at the idea of it being internal. And the answer to Dujon's tool-belts question was misleading, as I didn't read it properly. Not one of my better ones. One baton improvised from tights handed over to Raak.

That was unexpected. Hmm... MINERAL and ANIMAL, with ABSTRACT connections.

Is it manmade?

By the by, the answer "Would it normally be worn by a person? Person rather than an animal, yes - but it's not 'worn' as such." rather threw me. Did you mean "NO"?

[G III] Man-made? Something man-made is involved.

Is the mineral metal?

But is it art?

[Software] Partly metal.
[G III] Not art.

Is the animal portion canine?

An everyday object?

Begins with a P?

[Irouléguy] Can I ask about the "it was Tuj who gave me the idea"?

[irach] Not canine.
[Rosie] Not an everyday object. Not in the sense you mean, that is. *laughter*
[Tuj] Yes! It does indeed begin with a P! Is that a first?

P-research

[Raak] No, it is a seventh, though I have asked the question 59 times.
People who aren't me have an improved success rate of 3 out of 12.
Meanwhile Raak has asked if the word has ended in P, and CdM set the answer "the set of all words beginning with P".

Does this relate to time?

[Dujon] Relates to time? In a way.

Is the animal part living?

Are the abstract connections to a work of art?

[Tuj] Also related: around the same time I also set "A P" in the sense of the Associated Press, and "urine".

[Tuj] The animal part is living.
[CdM] Not related to a work of art.

A horse and cart?

[Rosie] Not a horse and cart.

A cage?

[Rosie] Not a cage.

"Pig in a poke" ?

[irach] Not a pig in a poke.

Is the animal a source of energy to be used as, for example, motive power?

[Rosie] The animal makes it happen? Yes.

A Pony and Trap?

[Software] Not a pony and trap. The "motive power" thing may be misleading.

Is it the animal part that begins with the "P"?

[irach] The animal part is not the part beginning with P.

A rat-race?

[Rosie] Not a rat-race.

Is there an agricultural connection?

[Kim] Nothing to do with agriculture. *snoring from the audience*

Is the animal a mammal?

[Rosie] The animal is a mammal.

Is the animal normally associated with human contact (e.g. pet or livestock)?

[G III] Not a pet, not livestock. Associated with human contact? Well...you're thinking on the wrong lines. Hint: a frequently asked question has not yet been asked.

Animal human?

Why the FAQ didn't I ask that earlier?

Is the abstract connection a metaphor?

Fictional?

[Rosie] At last! The animal is himan.
[CdM] The abstract connection is a metaphor.
[Tuj] Not fictional. (Knowledgeable members of the audience and those who have just googled it murmur.) Not intended as fictional.

Is it "Manpower"?

[Kim] Not "Manpower".

Related to the bible?

Is the mineral part a specific object?

[G III] Not related to the bible.
[Rosie] Yes, a specific mineral object.

Is the human currently living?

[Kim] Not applicable. Not a specific human.

"People Power"

Is the mineral object implied rather than specified?

[Rosie] Yes to both.

Is this a phrase?

[Tuj] It is a phrase.

Is the word that begins with P "Power"?

[irach, sorry I overlooked this] Not "People Power".
[Kim] P is not for "power".
Summary: the phrase describes a specified mineral object, an implied one, and some human activity, and the whole is also a metaphor. Not biblical, artistic, or any of the specific guesses so far. It begins with a P.

The Press?

[Rosie] Not The Press. The very first word of this begins with a P.

Is the animal human part a plural noun?

[irach] The animal human is not mentioned.

Is the mineral partly glass?

Platinum artist?

[CdM] No glass.
[staniel] Not a platinum artist. (Not an artistic thing.)
*the audience sign up for cryonic suspension*

Is the metaphor assoicated with human endeavour (eg, nose to the grindstone, shoulder to the wheel, that kind of thing)?

[Kim] Yes! Exactly that sort of thing!

Are the second and third letters U and T?

[CdM] Putting? No.

Is it also the title of a film?

First word a present participle?

Are the second and third letters U and L?

[Kim] Not the title of a film, according to IMDB. I think it ought to be, though. It would be rather a long one.
[Rosie] The first word is a present participle.
[Tuj] PULl the other one, it's got bells on.

Is there a mythical connection?

[Kim] No mything links.

Pulling your weight?

[Rosie] Not pulling your weight.

Are the second and third letters of the first word "U" and "S"?

[Kim] Pushy? No.

Any links to a game?

[INJ] Nothing to do with a game.

There are four words on the card.

I see my summary left out the information that this thing has a connection with time.

Painting the Forth bridge?

Aha!

[INJ] We have a winner! One bottomless bucket and a paintbrush handed over.

semi-lurking

I didn't think anyone would object, given how long this one has been going.
Rather more quickly, I hope, you will get to:
Abstract with Animal Connections - (Actually I could claim it as Abstract with Animal connections on 2 counts and Animal with Abstract connections on 1 - but don't let that confuse you)

Leaving now

Won't be looking at this until tomorrow morning now, I'm afraid.

Is the animal part human?

An activity?

[Kim] Human? - NO
[Rosie] Activity? - NO

An expression?

[Software] Expression? - NO

Is the animal of a species that exists in the world today?

Good question

[Kim] Animal species exists today? - NO (however, I am just a little wary of the exact form in which the question was asked)

Is the animal mythical?

[Raak] Mythical animal? - Hmm - NO, unless you mean 'is it fictional?', in which case, the answer is YES

A specific fictional animal?

(i.e., an individual animal like "White Fang")

Animal common in fantasy literature?

[CdM] Specific animal - YES
[G3] Common in Fantasy Literature? - NO

Begins with a P?

Does the animal appear predominantly in books?

[Tuj] THE question? - NO
[Kim] booky animal? - NO

From a children's movie?

[CdM] From children's film? - NO (and he claims he doesn't speak American)

Is the animal a human construction?

[Kim] Human Construction? - YES (in the sense that I think you mean)
Also YES in another sense *a few chuckles from the audience* and NO in a very obscure sense.
Confused enough now?

An animal bred for some purpose?

Is it an animal of legend (as distinct from myth)?

[G3] bred for some purpose? - NO
[Kim] Legend rather than myth? - NO - If anything the reverse, but neither is a good description

Is the animal a member of a real species (dog rather than hipporhinocecow, for example)

trying to hone in based on some previous answers...
And I never claimed any such thing. I speak American almost fluently.

[CdM] Member of real species? - YES

[CdM] "hone in"? **bang!!**

[Raak] ooops...

An animal of folklore?

[Raak] Although... maybe I was just demonstrating my command of fluent American for INJ. According to the M-W Dictionary of English Usage

The phrase [hone in] seems to have become established in American English, and is apparently beginning to be used in British English (Garner has a British example). If you use it, you should be aware that some people will think you have made a mistake.

Not surprisingly, the folks at Language Log have have also discussed it quite a bit. One of the interesting things is that though the verb to home has been around a long time, home in and hone in are both recent coinages. None of which is meant as a serious defense in my particular case, by the way; had I noticed it, I would have certainly chosen home in in preference.

Not well-honed

[Kim] Folklore? - NO

Is this animal primarily known for some artistic representation of it?

[CdM] artiswtically represented - NO (except for fairly wide definitions of 'artistic' and 'representation')

Is it a species of animal, rather than a single example?

[Kim] Species? - The answer would technically be a species, but it is known by a single example

From an adult film?

Not an "adult" film, you understand. Just an adult film.

(We now know that this animal is fictional, but not from a book, children's film, or known from an artistic representation...)

Would the aminal/species be known conventionally as a "dinosaur"?

[CdM] Film for adults - NO
[Kim] Dino? - NO
So, by a process of elimination....

From a teenage film?

Is the animal the subject of a poem?

Building on CdM's summary, if I have this right, the individual animal has never actually existed but is a human construction, represented not in books or artistic representation (which I take to mean painting, drawing, sculpture, etc) and not in any film made for children, adults or teenagers but in some other artistic form; moreover, the species to which the animal belongs is a real species, but the species does not exist in the world today, nor is it what we would call a "dinosaur".

Trojan horse?

From TV?

At last

[Kim] Subject of poem? - NO *some chuckles in the audience*
[G3] Trojan Horse? - NO
[CdM] TV - YES *sighs of relief*
The summary is correct, except around the 'species' (and this is my fault). It's probably best to say that the genus is real and current, but this particular creature isn't. After all, it doesn't exist, so has never been classified, so I'm extrapolating here - is it a species or a sub-species - search me. However, I suspect that you would probably think of it as part of an existing species.

Is/was there a real animal or animals who played the part of this fictional animal on TV?

(e.g., Flipper the wonder horse, Lassie the bush kangaroo) (I'm assuming not, because otherwise I think INJ would have led with Animal rather than Abstract ... but INJ's original definition did seem to leave the door open for lots of things.)

Mister Ed?

Was it a TV cartoon?

Associated with a particular actor?

Is the TV show named after the animal?

[CdM] Real Animal played part? NO (or I certainly hope not)
[Phil] Mr Ed? - NO
[Raak] Cartoon? - NO
[Projoy] Particular actor? - NO, not as such *Some muttering in the audience*[Kim] Named after animal? - NO

Mr. Blobby?

Is the animal a puppet?

Was the audience muttering because a known actor voiced this character?

Is our elusive friend a puppet?

Whoops! Sorry, Kim.

I'm also going to request a clarification on the classification. Though you have classified this primarily as abstract, does (or did) it still have some physical (presumably vegetable or mineral) existence? (Although maybe that is just a very roundabout way of asking Kim's question for the third time!)

[Raak] Mr Blobby? - NO
[Kim] Puppet? - NO
[CdM] Voiced by well-known actor - NO
[Dujon] - still no
CdM - Some physical existence? - YES *some applause* (but the classification is still correct)

Was this animal played by an actor in costume?

Not a real animal, not a puppet, and not a cartoon. Not many possibilities left.

Was the animal invisible?

Do we take your earlier rejection of "cartoon" to include all forms of amination?

Is it a logo or mascot?

I am thinking along the lines of something like Pudsey the bear (though not him of course as he begins with P).

One of the Playschool toys?

Just as an observation, we have nothing indicating that this is a children's show, though I think we are all tending to assume that it is.

[CdM] Gorilla-suited? - N)
[Raak] Invisible? - NO
[Kim] animated? - NO (I don't split hairs in this game)
[Bigsmith] Logo/Mascot - NO
Playschool? - NO
[CdM] Good point, well made.

Pantomime horse?

Well this is proving harder than I had ever imagined

[Software] Panto pony? - NO (precluded by answer to CdM's previous question)

Not a real animal, not a puppet, not a costumed actor, not invisible, not a cartoon or other animation. We are obviously missing something here but I am drawing a blank.

Was this animal ever seen (in some form or another) by the TV viewers?

Avian?

getting warmer

[CdM] Was the animal seen? - YES (it will become clear)
[irach] birdy? - YES *relieved applause*

"Phoenix rising from the ashes"?

[irach] Phoenix? - NO

Did the animal have an individual name?

"Eagle eye"?

Did the TV show feature a representation of this bird (e.g., a picture) rather than the bird itself?

[Raak] Named? - NO *a few murmurs in the audience*
[irach] Eagle eye? - Never heard of it, so NO
[CdM] Representation? YES(ish), a picture? - NO
There are 3 words on the card, including the indefinite article.

Is this from a comedy show?

[CdM] comedy show? - YES Loud and relieved applause*

Is it visible during the show?

[Phil] Visible? - YES

A Liver Bird?

[CdM] Liver Bird - Good guess, but NO

Was this seen in a pet shop?

"Dead Parrot" a la Monty Python?

Close enough for jazz

I don't want to draw this out so I declare irach the winner! The answer on the card was A Norwegian Blue
[CdM] The category that had not been suggested was 'a prop/model'
(To explain the convoluted intro 'a Norwegian Blue' can also be an orienteering course or the nickname of the earliest fossil proto-psittacoid, which was found in Scandinavia.)
One baton totally bereft of life handed on to irach.

Simulposted with:

That must be it, though I am guessing that "A Norwegian Blue" are the actual words on the card. (That's irach's win, not mine, if correct.)

Well, that one was put to rest at last. The psittacoid in question pining for the fjords is now in birdie Valhalla.... The next one is ANIMAL with an ABSTRACT Connotation.

Human?

A single individual animal?

Is the answer a phrase?

[CdM] Non-human.
[IMJ] More than one.
[Rosie] Sort of a phrase.

Lemmings?

A single species of animal?

A team or pack?

[Tuj] Not lemmings.
[CdM] Not a single species.
[Rosie] A team of sorts, not a pack.

Domesticated animals?

Likely to be seen in the wild?

(in counterpoint to INJ)

[INJ] Not domesticated.
[CdM] Yes, and no.

Fictional?

Dickybirds?

Land animal?

[Tuj] Fictional in part.
[Rosie] Not dickybirds.
[Software] Yes. Land animal

Does it begin with P?

To business.

[Tuj] 'Pologies, but no "P" whatsover, in either the beginning, middle, or end.

The Circle of Life?

Ouch.

[Tuj] Not the circle of life.

An animal of which there are both domesticated and wild examples?

[Kim] Only wild or presumed wild.

Does the name of an animal (or several) appear on the card?

[INJ] Yes, the animals are named.

Indigenous to the UK?

"Wild? I was absolutely livid!"

Do they form an heraldic or symbolic group?

[Bigsmith] Not indigenous to the US individually, but togeter, yes, very British.

[INJ] Yes, they form a heraldic or symbolic group.

Lion and Unicorn?

[Software] The Lion and the Unicorn it is. The baton is passed

Bu**er! That means I'll have to think of something. Right, after 30 seconds deep thought here it is:

VEGETABLE with ANIMAL and ABSTRACT connections.

Terry Schiavo?

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Is the vegetable wood?

I Can't Believe It's Not Bu**er!?

Smaller than a toaster?

[Raak] Yowzer!

[Raak] Terry? No
[INJ] Wood? Yes.
[CdM] er.. No.
[Tuj] Toaster? Difficult one, probably Yes.

Are the animal connections human?

Is there only one of these?

A board game?

[Raak] Human? Yes.
[Kim] Unique? No.
[Tuj] Boardo? No.

A tool?

Found in a kitchen?

Long and thin?

[INJ] tool? some may say so, but a sensible answer is probably No.
[irach] kitchen? some would say Yes.
[Rosie] phalic? No.

Edible?

Chopsticks?

*wonders about the short fat approximately toaster-sized chopsticks that irach eats with*

[CdM] edible? theoretically, Yes.
[irach] ching-chang-chew? No.

Part of a foodstuff that is not normally eaten? (eg fish bones)

[Rosie] Fishy? No.

A container of some kind?

Specific to a particular culture or country?

[Tuj] Container? No.
[CdM]Specific country/culture? No.

Serves a decorative purpose?

I'm struggling with the edible wood.

Heart of palm?

[INJ] Decorative? No.
[Raak]Swamp cabbage? Had to Google that! No.

Advent calendar?

About the size of a toaster in all three dimensions, two dimensions, or one?

Found in most homes?*

* for a definition of home based on the Western European model

[G III] Chocolatey date thing? No.
[irach] Toaster sized? In one dimension maybe. Yes.
[INJ] Domestic? Yes. (random claps from audience)

Used in the preparation or serving of food?

Is the abstract connection something to do with the arts?

[INJ] Jamie Oliverish? Nah.
[CdM] Arty-farty? No.

Associated with apparel?

[INJ] wear it? No.

Clue?

Is the abstract connection a phrase or saying?

Does it begin with a 'P'?

Sorry Tuj, but we can only wait so long for you.

[Tuj] Clue? OK. This is a give away: almost everyone has used one of these.
[CdM] Abstract? Not a phrase or saying as such, but a familiar term.
[INJ] P? Not in the answer itself. * audience murmurs.*

Paper of some sort?

Toilet paper?

[Chalks] Paper? Yes. *audience claps*
[GIII] Bog roll? No.

Advent Calendar?

ooops - CANCEL THAT

Box of Tissues

Newspaper?

[Chalks] Advent calendar? You wish! And not paper hankies either. No.
[irach] The fourth estate? No.

Paper Towels?

[irach] Towels? No. Hint: it is paper, approximately toaster sized in one dimension.

Is is typically written on, e..g. foolscap paper?

[irach] Written? Not by hand, but Yes. * audience claps * Foolscap? Are you a lawyer?

A Telephone Directory?

A fortune cookie?

[CdM] Directory? The exact words on the Card!!!

Well done and over to you!! I'm glad that its gone because I'm away from a computer for the next 5 days and there would have been a big gap!

That was unexpected

OK. I am going to designate this as ABSTRACT with ANIMAL connections, while acknowledging that many of you might have deemed this ANIMAL with ABSTRACT connections.

Begins with P?

Anubis?

Mythical?

A well-known phrase?

Pinitial? No.
Anubis? No, but *a tiny smattering of applause*
Mythical? No, but *some audience murmuring and consultation of dictionaries*
Well-known phrase? In a sense, yes, although that's not the best way to think of what you are looking for.

Fictional?

Fictional? In part, Yes; in part, No.

extinct?

Extinct? Er. I think the only reasonable answer is No.

Legendary?

Legendary? Yes, but *some audience murmuring and consultation of dictionaries*

A single, named creature?

Single, named creature? Yes. *applause*

An object of worship?

Object of worship? No (except perhaps in the exaggerated metaphorical sense)

An object of fear?

Object of fear? No.

In place of my rather convoluted introduction, it is probably better to describe this simply as ABSTRACT and ANIMAL.

But does it begin with P?

Pinitial? Still No.

Is its existence controversial?

Controversial existence? Not in the slightest. (I confirmed its existence a few days ago, as a matter of fact.)

Does it have a physical existence?

The MerLion?

Connected with a particular country?

[CdM] I'll believe you this time.

The answers to several of these questions differ depending on whether I am focusing on the abstract or animal component of the answer. My answers to date have been primarily directed at the abstract component (although I don't think any of them would be badly misleading when thought of as applying to the animal component as well.* With that in mind

Physical Existence? The abstract component has various physical manifestations (so I could also add MINERAL connections to the definition). As for the animal component, the best answer is probably No, (or perhaps Yes, of a sort), but had the question been phrased slightly differently I could have much more easily just answered Yes.
Connected with a particular country? Not exactly, but *applause*.
Merlion? No.

*Though I have never confirmed the existence of the animal component.

Does the animal represent in any way a particular human?

Particular human? The animal is a particular human, yes. *applause*

Is the human the holder of a certain position or title?

Connected with a particular religion?

Holder of position or title? Not exactly, but *applause*
Religious connection? No.

The Statue of Liberty?

Long shot.

Lady Liberty? Nope.

So is the animal fictional and the abstract nonfictional?

Fictional status of animal and abstract: The animal is non-fictional. The abstract is partly fictional and partly non-fictional.

Something like "Tom Thumb"?

Like Tom Thumb? Not at all. I would call that totally fictional.

Tom Thumb fictional? Perhaps not.

[Software] Ah. Well, that's what I get for taking Wikipedia as the last word on something. But, in any case, I think the answer is No.

{Software] By the way, I love the picture at top right in your link. "Tom Thumb's Waistcoat," it is labeled. But since there is nothing else in the picture to indicate scale, the waistcoat in question might just as easily be too big for Kobe Bryant....

Male?

Male? Yes.

This is proving harder than I expected, so I'll offer a clarification/clue with regard to the mythical/legendary questions. The answer on the card does not refer (in either the abstract or animal sense) to something mythical or legendary in a narrow, literal myth-or-fable sense of those terms. The answer (in both senses) is legendary in the broader celebrated-renowned sense of that term, and possibly even mythical in the very broad sense of that word ("idealized").

Is the human the holder of a particular record or accomplishment?

Holder of record or accomplishment? The human is known for certain accomplishments.

Dead?

Sporting accomplishments?

Dead? Yes.
Sporting? No.

A war leader?

A war leader? Sort of, yes. *applause*

Well, this is starting to get silly.

Did the human die within the last 100 years?

Alive sometime after1908? Yes.

Notorious rather than universally celebrated?

The Unknown Soldier?

Notorious? The human in question is perhaps not universally celebrated, but certainly "celebrated" is a better term than "notorious". The abstract sense is pretty much universally celebrated.
Unknown soldier? Hardly. *some laughter*

Born after 1908?

Born after 1908? The human in question was not born after 1908. The abstract sense cae into being after 1908 though.

Because you will probably have forgotten most of this when you resume this game in a post-Christmas alcoholic haze, here is a review.

The words on the card are sort of a well-known phrase that does not begin with P. The words have both an ANIMAL sense and an ABSTRACT sense. There is no controversy about the existence of either.

The ANIMAL sense is a particular male human, who was born before 1908 and died after 1908. He is known for certain non-sporting accomplishments and was sort of a war leader. He is celebrated rather than notorious, though not universally celebrated. He is legendary in the sense of being celebrated and renowned, and possibly mythical in the sense of being idealized, but he is not legendary or mythical in the more literal senses of those terms. He is not exactly connected to a particular country, but the question earned applause. He is not exactly the holder of a position or title, but that question also earned applause. He has no religious connection. He is not Anubis, the Merlion, Tom Thumb, Lady Liberty, or the Unknown Soldier.

The ABSTRACT sense came into being after 1908, and does have physical (mineral) manifestations. It is partly fictional and partly non-fictional, and it is likewise legendary in the broad senses of the words, but not in the narrow senses. I recently confirmed its existence.

T. E. Lawrence?

T.E. Lawrence? The human is T.E. Lawrence, yes. *sustained applause*. But, though this one is now clearly there for the taking, I cannot declare Raak the winner.

Come on, Raak, get a wriggle on. ;-)

Lawrence of Arabia?

Lawrence of Arabia is indeed the correct answer. One Aqabaton delivered from the Turks to Raak.

The next is ABSTRACT.

The Riemann ζ-function?

	_n=∞
Not	Σ	1/n^s
	ⁿ⁼¹

Cognitive dysfunction?

Could be regarded as a symptom of one.

"Happy New Year"?

Oh, and Happy New Year to all.

Not a happy new year.

A human characteristic?

E.g. numeracy :-)

Not a human characteristic.

An organisation?

Not an organisation.

Anything to do with religion?

According to Wikipedia, no connection with religion.

Christmas?

Not Christmas.

A well-known phrase or saying?

Not a phrase or saying. Well, there's a phrase on the card, of course, but the mystery object is what it refers to, not the words themselves.

Is the mystery object Animal?

No, it's ABSTRACT.

Connection with science or scientific endeavour?

No connection with sciency things.

A human construct?

'cos somebody had to ask it.

Yes, a human construct.

Does the mystery object instil fear?

Any connection with the arts?

[Rosie] (laughter) Does not instil fear.
[INJ] No connection with the arts.

Does the mystery object represent an achievement?

Is this a sporting accolade?

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