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AVMA Take 2
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Yes, it's another round of that classic guessing game - Animal, Vegetable, Mineral, Abstract [or any combination thereof]. This effort - '03/'04 should address any queries, but then again, may just serve to confuse and baffle which some might say is the point of the game. Patience, integrity and a decent search engine may be useful ....
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Connected to political activity? Yes. *sustained applause*
The US Democratic convention?
British?
A legislature?
Denver Demfest '08? No.
British? No. *some muttering in the audience*
A legislature? No.
English?
A referendum?
Concerning the EU?
English? No.
A referendum? No. *some audience laughter*
EU-related? No.
Does this pertain to an African country's election process?
Is the country/culture in Europe?
African country's election process? No and No.
In Europe? Yes.
(I suppose that while my answer to African country was unequivocal, I should note that there is at least a tangential connection to "election process".)
A current news story?
A country or culture formerly part of the USSR?
A Dutch treat?
Current news? No.
USSR? No.
Dutch treat? No.
Does it involve a change in power in a country?
Gerrymandering?
Does it relate to a specific European country?
The French Revolution?
Does it involve a change in power in a country? No. *applause*
Gerrymandering? No.
Relate to a specific European country? Yes. (A case could be made for No, but it would be misleading.)
French revolution? No. *more applause*
Treaty of Versailles?
Treaty of Versailles? No. *audience sits in stony silence*
Anything to do with royalty?
A failed revolution/coup/uprising?
To do with royalty? No (except tangentially).
A failed revolution/coup/uprising? Yes! *sustained applause*
The Spanish Civil War?
Spanish Civil War? No.
Did it happen in Czechoslovakia (as was)?
Czequered past? No.
The Landing at Dunkirk?
Dunkirk Landing? No.
Was the uprising against a colonial power?
Involving Napoleon Bonaparte, 1812 and Russia?
Uprising against a colonial power? Yes.
Napoleonic? No.
The Black Hole of Calcutta?
Black Hole of Calcutta, Europe? No.
The Easter Rising, Dublin 1916?
Uprising of Gaul against Julius Caesar in 52 BC?
We have a winner! The words on the card were "The Easter Rising". *hands an orange and green baton to Irouléguy*
I agree with the mutterers when Rosie asked "British" and you said "No". Ireland was part of Britain in 1916, and remained so until 1920, IIRC. There are some that say Ireland is still part of Britain, but not "Great Britain", but I think that's a bit over(t)ly confrontational.
[Phil] Well, it all comes down to the meaning of Britain.
My preferred usage has always been to treat Britain and Great Britain as synonymous, referring (as a geographical term) to the island which makes up the bulk of England, Scotland and Wales, and more generally (and as a political term) to England + Scotland + Wales. Another view is that Britain (but not, I think, Great Britain) is synonymous with the UK; this seems to be your preferred usage. Wikipedia points me both to the Guardian style guide, which claims that "Britain is the official short form of United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland", and also points to a quote from a British government website that says "the term 'Britain' is used informally to mean the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" [my emphasis in both quotes].

So, having gone most of my life thinking I understood these demarcations perfectly, I'm now not sure. If anyone can point me to an official site which disambiguates "Britain" and "Great Britain" conclusively, I'd be grateful.

There is another subtlety (and here I am convinced, or almost), which is that "British" perhaps has a wider meaning than simply "pertaining to Britain". It is true, for example, that my passport of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland describes me as a British citizen. On the basis of that distinction, I would accept that perhaps I should have said "yes" to "British?" though I might still disagree with your claim that "Ireland was a part of Britain in 1916". In any case, I thought my answer together with the audience muttering was a sufficiently non-misleading response.
To follow up, here are two sites that both seem reasonably reliable and that, taken together, support the view that (i) "British" has a meaning that extends beyond Britain in the specific case of nationality, but that (ii) using "Britain" to refer to the UK is at best informal and at worst incorrect. Here, we read:
BRITAIN. The informal name for the United Kingdom.
BRITISH is the formal designation of the nationality of citizens of the United Kingdom, and of certain others.
Compare with the following from here.
The adjective "British" is, of course, used in relation to Great Britain but there is also a common tendency to use it when referring to issues relating to both Great Britain and the United Kingdom. This is inaccurate and from a legal point of view erroneous. [emphasis mine]

Sometimes, however, in legislation the term "British" is used to refer to the United Kingdom as a whole, especially in matters relating to the question of nationality.

I'm not sure I am much wiser.
[CdM] I must re-examine myself. I have never in the past confused the UK with GB. I can't understand why I posted that. Although the time-stamp might explain it :-)
Phil, CdM] From another angle, I thought CdM's answer was fine, in that the participants in the 1916 rising certainly didn't think of themselves as British.

At one point Wikipedia suggests that Britain might be used for the island alone, and Great Britain for England, Scotland & Wales (ie including the Isle of Wight, Anglesey and so on), but it doesn't give a source for this, and I'm not sure why anyone except geographers would need such a distinction.

Anyway, our next is ABSTRACT, containing ANIMAL and VEGETABLE with a small amount of MINERAL.

Animal human?
A balanced diet?
Rosie - Animal human? No
irach - A balanced diet? *applause* No
Is the answer related to a food item?
[Phil] But note from my first comment that the Guardian style guide supports your original objection.
A loaded coffin?
CdM - Is the answer related to a food item? Yes
Dujon - A loaded coffin? No
A type of sandwich?
A pie of some kind?
Part of a specialised diet?
irach] A type of sandwich? No
CdM] A pie of some kind? Ye-es
Rosie] Part of a specialised diet? *giggles from the audience* Possibly
Shepherd's Pie?
irach] Shepherd's Pie? No
A Cornish pasty?
Named after a person?
Rosie} A Cornish pasty? *applause* No
Graham III] Named after a person? No
Humble pie?
Named after a place or area?
Raak] Humble pie? No. The ABSTRACT was probably a mistake - this is edible
Rosie] Named after a place or area? *applause* Yes
Yorkshire pudding?
irach] Yorkshire pudding? Nay, lad
Devon cheesecake?
Bet that's wrong.
Is the place or area in UK?
Rosie] Devon cheesecake? You win the bet
CdM - Is the place or area in UK? *applause* Yes
Is this an edible item with a metaphorical meaning?
Is the animal element the meat of the animal?
CdM] Is this an edible item with a metaphorical meaning? Not really, no (it's not clear where the name comes from, but it's probably not a metaphor).
Graham III - Is the animal element the meat of the animal? Yes!
Is the animal a pig?
Is the animal named or directly implied (e.g., pork) by the words on the card?
The Dunmow Flitch?
Bigsmith] Is the animal a pig? Often (though not in all recipes)
CdM] Is the animal named or directly implied (e.g., pork) by the words on the card? *audience members of a certain age giggle* No
Raak] The Dunmow Flitch? No
Scotch egg?
That's wrong as well.
Rosie] Scotch egg? No
Welsh rarebit?
Thrashing around in the dark.
Melton Mowbray Pork Pie?
*hangs his head in shame*
Rosie - Welsh rarebit? No
Graham III - Melton Mowbray Pork Pie? No
Is pastry involved?
Or bread?
Rosie - Is pastry involved? Yes
Bigsmith - Or bread? No
The Fleet Street "Long pork" pies of Sweeney Todd?
Is it a dessert?
irach] The Fleet Street "Long pork" pies of Sweeney Todd? No - see Rosie's earlier question about the animal being human.
Rosie] Is it a dessert? *applause, followed by lengthy discussion* Yes and no (more accurately, no and yes)
Wakefield Pie?
(Pork and rhubarb - delicious!)
Is it sweet?
as opposed to savoury.
ImNotJohn - Wakefield Pie? No, I've not come across that - sounds great!
Graham III - Is it sweet? Partially
as opposed to savoury? No (ie it's both)
Is this essentially a Cornish pasty by some other name and location?
Sweet and sour eel pasty?
CdM] Is this essentially a Cornish pasty by some other name and location? Um, no - it has a distinct USP. It might well look like a Cornish pasty, though, and parts of it might well taste like one.
Raak - Sweet and sour eel pasty? Eww! No
Shropshire Fidget pie?
Just to clarify, I always understood the traditional Cornish pasty to contain two separate fillings: one meat-and-potato-based and one fruit-based. Is the USP that you refer to something other than this?
(A little googling reveals that although this form of the Cornish pasty is mentioned in many places, it is much less of a defining feature than I had thought.)
Graham III - Shropshire Fidget pie? No
CdM] *applause* Yes, that is the USP. But I took your earlier question to mean a present-day Cornish pasty, which as far as I know is just a savoury.
A Bedfordshire Clanger?
wikipedia is my friend
CdM] A Bedfordshire Clanger? YES! Wikipedia is indeed your friend (where do you think I got it from?) One pork and raspberry baton handed over to CdM.
Never 'eard of it. Stupid. What's the point?
I'm with Rosie on that (though maybe not quite so forcefully). Sometimes you may have to do research to get the answer, but it shouldn't be 'pick one from a list at random'. I think the best answers are ones where, either the majority of players will have heard of it, or you're pleased to have had this thing drawn to your attention.
(INJ) Yeah, a bit "forceful" (as usual) but I was annoyed that I'd wasted time and thought with no chance whatever of hitting on the answer. The only Bedfordshire Clanger I can think of is the management of Luton Town FC.
This is obviously going to be one of those perennial debates here. There is room to disagree about where to draw the lines, but this is an online forum, which does make it different playing AVMA here rather than as a parlour game. I don't think there is any harm in subjects that require a bit of googling. As indeed this next one might for some people; I don't know.

MINERAL
(On reflection, this almost certainly has a significant VEGETABLE component as well.)
Is it fossilised?
Fossilised? No.
Used in construction?
Used in construction? No.
Is this a natural amalgam of its constituent materials?
Natural? In the sense in which I presume you mean the term, No.
Here is a clarification of the category that will hopefully make things nicely more muddled. :-)
The words on the card refer to something that can be reasonably interpreted relatively narrowly, or a bit more broadly. In both cases we are talking about something primarily mineral, and I can do no more than make educated guesses about the vegetable component. Under the narrow definition, my guess is that the vegetable component is present, but small. Under the broader definition, the vegetable component is surely more prominent, but the mineral component still clearly dominates.
(To be honest, you will probably make more progress if you ignore the vegetable component.)
Rossington Colliery Grade 2B Hards?
Bog standard food for steam locos.
Diesel substitute? No.
Is there only one of it?
Unique? Yes.
Is it fixed in a single location?
Fixed in a single location? Yes. *a smattering of applause*
Larger than a telephone box?
Larger than a telephone box? Yes.
Is the mineral metalic?
Metallic? There is some metal involved, but most of the mineral component is not metallic.
Is it a building?
A building? Yes. *applause*
Is it in Europe?
In Europe? Yes.
Is it in the UK?
Is it north of Paris? (oblig)
Thanks to CdM for his defence, and apologies to those who thought my last was a waste of time - I mostly agree with INJ's criteria and thought it fitted :(
A public building?
In the UK? No.
North of Paris? Yes.
Public building? No. *animated discussion in the audience, plus applause for the question*
Does the building house scientific activity?
Does the building house scientific activity? Yes.
Was it built before 1900?
Built before 1900? Yes.
Greenwich Observatory?
Greenwich Observatory? No.
Is it mostly made of concrete?
Mostly made of concrete? No.
Was it built before 1800?
Built before 1800? No.
Is it in a Scandanavian country?
Connected with astronomy?
In a Scandinavian country? No.
Connected with astronomy? No.
Is it part of a university?
Part of a university? No.
To do with botany?
Botanical? No.
Is it a museum?
Is it in a Francophone country?
Engineering?
Museum? No.
In a Francophone country? No.
Engineering? If you mean, "is it connected to engineering?" then the answer is "only tangentially".
Connected with power generation?
Connected with power generation? No.
The dog that didn't bark
Before you spend too much time on the current avenue of questioning, you might want to observe that there was a question where the audience was notable for its lack of reaction.
Was it Rosie's question about "scientific activity"?
Was it Rosie's question? Yes. (The building in question does house scientific activity, but that is not its primary function.)
Is it in the UK?
Is it a library?
Is it a museum?
In Germany?
[Rosie] Not in UK
Maritime/ocean connections?
In the UK? Still No. It is in a fixed location, remember. :-)
Library? No.
Museum? Still No.
In Germany? No.
Maritime/ocean connection? Yes.*applause*
A structure in the ocean rather than on land?
In the ocean rather than on land? No.
Is it in mainland Europe?
Would this be an aquarium?
Is it in Poland?
Had to get the letter "p" in there somewhere.
Is it in mainland Europe? No.
Would this be an aquarium? It would not.
Is it in Poland? Positively not.
This is fictional, isn't it?
Fictional? No. Not at all abstract. Very solidly mineral.
In Ireland?
In Ireland? No.
Cleopatra's Needle?
Is it surrounded by water?
Is it a lighthouse?
Eddystone lighthouse?
(as flerdle beat me to my next question by an hour)
Cleopatra's Needle? No. We've established (twice!) that it's not in the UK
Surrounded by water? No.
A lighthouse? Yes! *applause*
Eddystone Lighthouse? No. (Not in the UK, remember...)
Is it in a Nordic country?
Splitting hairs, but...
In a Nordic country? No.
In a Baltic country?
In a Baltic country? No.
Roter Sand lighthouse?
Roter Sand Lighthouse? No.
Is it in Iceland?
Splitting atoms...
Is it in Iceland? I am amazed it took this long for someone to ask!



No.
The Low Countries?
The Low Countries? No.
Is it in Russia?
In Russia? No.
In which case - was it built in 1818?
Was it built in 1818? Well, it was partly built in 1818, and partly prior to then, but ... *tumultuous applause*
Does it shine over an inland sea or lake?
Is it actually a double lighthouse?
In the Crown Dependencies?
The Casquets Lighthouse?
Shine over an inland sea? No.
A double lighthouse? There is a second light, yes. (Just answer it, Irouléguy!)
In the Crown Dependencies? Yes! *applause, mingled with cries of "What took you so long, Software?!"*
Casquets? No.
*grins*
Calf of Man, High and Low?
Calf of Man, High and Low? *applause* but ... No. (Maybe Irg had it wrong as well...)
Is it on or around Guernsey?
I was wrong - I thought it was Calf of Man too. And I'm probably away from my computer this weekend, which is why I'm avoiding taking the baton.
Corbiere lighthouse?
Corbiere? No.
Perhaps someone should ask the other pertinent question.
Is it currently in use?
Currently in use? Yes.
There is easily enough information now for anybody to get the answer with 15 seconds of googling.
Is it on the Isle of Man?
I don't have the time to set one either, but this has been great fun.
On the Isle of Man? Yes.
(*The two remaining members of the audience applaud half-heartedly*)
Is it by any chance the Point of Ayre Lighthouse?
Only because IRG & flerdle, who got to it before me, are too busy.
Point of Ayre?
Ha! Simulposted! Just what is the point of Ayre?
The Point of Ayre Lighthouse, Isle of Man, !UK, is indeed the answer. *hands red and white flashing baton to Phil*
I think this one will be quite quick, I think: ANIMAL
Denis Wise?
Human?
As opposed to Rosie's choice.
An individual?
[Rosie] The Poison Dwarf? NO
[Software] A human? NO
[Raak] An individual? YES (with a very, very, very nerdy trace of NO)
A pet?
[Rosie] A pet? YES *applause*
Lassie?
[CdM] Lassie? NO
Dick Whittington's cat?
[Rosie] DW's Cat? NO
Timmy?
[Dujon] Timmy? NO
Currently alive?
[CdM] Currently alive? NO
Greyfriars Bobby?
Scooby Dooby Doo?
[irach] Greyfriars Bobby? NO
Hidden textincidentally, one of only two films to make my daughter cry

[Projoy] The world's most famous Great Dane? NO
A fictional character?
[Rosie] A fictional character? NO *applause for a good question*
The hamster allegedly consumed by Freddy Starr?
A mammal?
[Rosie] Freddie Starr's Hamster Jam? NO
[CdM} A mammal? YES
Canine?
[irach] Canine? YES *more applause*
Used to be on television?
Rin-Tin-Tin?
Lassie?
[Irouléguy] Used to be on TV? YES *quite a bit more applause*
[Software] & [Kim] I hate to be the one to break the news to you, but Rin-Tin-Tin & Lassie are fictional, so that's a NO to both questions. :-)
Petra (original and surreptitious replacement)?
Shep?
(a logical follow-up question)
[Kim] Petra? YES! Congrats!
I only read about the replacement last week, hence the nerdy "not an individual" answer to Raak's question earlier. Now I need some sleep, having worked about 60 hours in the last 4 days.
*Takes the baton in his mouth and buries it in the back garden*
OK, given the brouhaha over my last attempt to set a poser, I am going to stick this time with a fairly safe ANIMAL
A pair of hands?
[Irouléguy] Not as such.
Human?
[irach] Human? Yes.
Living?
[Rosie] Living? No.
Associated with music?
Male?
Fingers touching (or nearly so)?
European?
[irach] Associated with music? Yes. *Burst of loud applause*
[Rosie] Male? Yes.
[Dujon] Fingers touching? Eh? Please clarify.
[INJ] European? Yes.
A composer?
Mozart?
[Irg] Composer? Yes.
[irach] Which one?
Wolfie, for the love of God?
Leopold Mozart?
Franz Xaver Wolfgang Mozart?
If all else fails....
aka Kim
[Rosie, Projoy, Phil] Not Amadeus, Leopold, Franz Xaver, nor (to save anyone else the bother of trawling endlessly through Wiki) Maria Anne, Carl Bleedin' Philip Emmanuel, PDQ or any other Mozart. Sorry...
What about Irouléguy's suggestion?
[Projoy] What about reading before posting?
[Projoy] Fair cop.
A baroque composer?
[Projoy] Baroque? Technically, no.
German?
Pre-Baroque?
Handel?
(Kim) CPE and PDQ weren't Mozarten; they were Bach(whatever the plural is).
[irach] German? No.
[Projoy] Pre-baroque? Technically, yes.
[Rosie] Handel? No (and, yes, I knew that).
European?
[Projoy] I refer the Hon. Gent. to the answer I gave ImNotJohn yesterday.
Born in the C17th
Oh dear, my basic literacy skills don't seem to be up to much lately.
[Projoy] Mine neiver, that's why Im staying well away frm this one.
William Byrd?
[Projoy] 17th Century? No. That would make him/her Baroque era, I think.
[IRG] Byrd? No.
John Dowland?
Italian?
[Projoy] Dowland? No.
[Phil] Italian? No.
Tomas Luis Vittoria?
[Rosie] TLV? No.
British?
Wrote choral stuff?
[irach] British? Yes.
[Rosie] Choral "stuff"? Yes.
*The audience applauds both questions and anticipates a swift conclusion*
Thomas Tallis?
[Phil] Yes! Phil beats Rosie to the tape.
*Hands over baton to Phil and walks off whistling Glen Miller's "In The Dorian Mood"*
I would like to offer the baton to Irouléguy, or flerdle, who beat me to the lighthouse one, but were unable to spare the time at the time.
Out of town, out of my mind
I'll be away for a fortnight so not me, sorry.
As IRG has not shown up, I'll do what could be another quick one...
ANIMAL or VEGETABLE or MINERAL
The word "Thing"?
[irach] "thing"? NO
Fossil?
[irach] Fossil? NO
A horn?
[Dujon] A horn? NO
Clothing?
Was Dujon asking the right kind of question? That is, is do the word(s) on the card have three separate interpretations/meanings, one animal, one vegatable, and one mineral?
[Projoy] Clothing? NO
[CdM] Words on the card have three separate meanings, one of each type? NO - it's more that it's categorisation is undefined, but not abstract.
Is this a part of a living body (e.g. brain, liver and so on)?
[CdM] Thanks for your question.
[Dujon] Part of a living body? YES, but not in the way you meant from your examples.
Atoms?
[irach] Atoms? NO - *Much applause*
Molecules?
Sub-atomic particles?
Higgs' bosons?
Phil] Thanks for the offer.
[irach] Molecules? NO
[software] Sub-atomic particles? YES *Enthusiastic applause*
[IRG] Higgs' bosons? NO Expectant oohs and aahs
Gluons?
[INJ] Gluons? NO *audience eagerly awaits the right sub-atomic particle*
A quark?
How about a less esoteric "proton"?
Or just the familial 'hadron'?
[IRG] Three quarks for muster mark? 'Fraid not
[irach] Proton? Postively incorrect
[INJ] The humble hadron? YES, by Jiminy!
*hands over a baton made of, amongst other things, hadrons*
Slightly worried about what will happen when the hadrons in my hand collide with those in the baton.
Ah, we appear to be all right.
So let's try ABSTRACT with MINERAL connections
Rock of Ages?
[irach] - aged rock? - NO
*A few members of the audience exchange significant glances*
A statue that no longer exists?
[Phil] - Colossus of Rhodes, etc. - NO
A proverb, aphorism or saying?
[irach] - well-known phrase or saying? - NO
Between a rock and a hard place?
[Raak] - well-known phrase or saying about rocks and hard places? - NO
Title of a literary or theatrical work?
A site or construction of 'cultural significance'?
A flying start
[irach] - Title of a literary or theatrical work? - YES *Applause*
[Dujon] - building site? - NO
Written in the 20th century?
[CdM] - C20 - NO
Title of a book?
[Phil]- Book title? - NO
Play?
This may not take long
[Kim] - Play? - NO
Opera?
Poem?
Film title?
The jukebox musical "We Will Rock You" ?
Are mines involved?
Sorry - called away
[irach] - opera - NO
[Kim] - Poem - YES *Applause*
[Phil] - never heard of it, so - NO
[Raak] - the pits - NO
[irach] - not a film either
"Composed upon Westminster Bridge" by Wordsworth?
Does the mineral connection occur in the title?
Does something to do with rock or stone appear in the title?
Would this have a relationship to a peacock?
Just a matter of time
[irach] - The commuters' poem - NO
[Rosie] - Mineral connection in title - YES
[Phil] - Rock or Stone in title - NO *a few audience murmurs*
[Dujon] - Peacockery - Not to my knowledge
Is there a religious connection?
Does the mineral connection refer to something real (for example "Under Ben Bulben", rather than "The green eye of the little yellow god")?
Is the mineral component water as in "Sea Fever"
Written in C19th?
Does it have anything to do with Hay Fever?
[Kim] - religious connection? - Best answer is NO
CdM - is the mineral real? - Very tricky. I could argue for NO, given the examples you cite, but actually the real answer is 'I don't know (and AFAIK neither does anyone else), but I would guess it was YES'
[irach] - watery - NO
[Projoy] C19 - YES
[Kim] - hay fevery? - NO where did that come from?
Keats?
Alfred Lord Tennyson's poem , "The Holy Grail"
Ode on a Grecian Urn?
(shamelessly climbing on Projoy's shoulders)
*I can't stop myself* - [CdM] What's a Grecian Urn?
Truth is beauty
[CdM] Im sure it is not all ye know on earth, but it is all ye need to know to win this round.
Ode on a Grecian Urn it is.
([Phil] Neither can I) - About 10 drachmas a day
One baton passed on, despite the best efforts of Merlina Mercouri.
VEGETABLE with ANIMAL CONNECTIONS
Bird Seed?
Bird seed? No.
Welsh rabbit?
Is the animal connection part of the name or descriptor of the vegetable?
[INJ] I thought it might be Gray's Allergy.
Welsh rabbit? No.
Animal connection part of name or descriptor of vegetable? Yes. *applause*
horse chestnut?
[Kim] That's dreadful!
She stoops to conker? No.
Is the animal a mammal?
Mammal? Yes.
Swede?
Is the vegetable a fruit?
Swede? No.
Fruit? No.
Edible?
Is it processed?
Is the vegetable a grass?
Edible? Yes.
Processed? No.
A grass? No.
Is the vegetable a vegetable?
Is tha answer just the name of the vegetable?
is the animal human?
King Edwards?
Answer just the name of the vegetable? Yes.
Is the animal human? Yes.
King Edwards? King Edward's what? Oh, sorry, No.
Broccoli?
Is the vegetable a vegetable? No. (Sorry, I missed that earlier.)
Broccoli? No.
Is the vegetable a berry?
Is the vegetable a flower?
Is the vegetable a seed or grain?
Any other options?
Berry? No.
Flower? Yes. *applause*
Seed or grain? No. But there is a connection. *brief puzzled pause, followed by audience laughter*
A specific named varietal?
Not sure of my technical terms here - I mean are we looking for something like 'Rosa Alan Titchmarsh' rather than 'a tea rose'?
Dog Rose?
Queen Anne's Lace?
A specific named varietal? Yes. *applause* (But it isn't Rosa Titchmarsh, whoever she may be.)
Dog rose? No.
Purple clover, Queen Anne's Lace? No.
Female personna?
Is the animal a specific, named individual?
Female? Yes.
Specific named individual? Yes.
Is it a rose?
Rose? No.
Is it a cultivar (as opposed to a wildflower)?
Cultivar? Yes.
Flowering herb?
A rose?
A bulb flower?
Flowerin' 'erb? No.
Rose? Still no.
Bulb flower? No.
It is a flower whose type is often to be found in an English garden?
Nelly Moser?
In an English country garden? No.
Nelly Moser? No.
A female name?
Female name? Still yes.
Oops.. I. meant a female royal name?
Royal name? *brief pause for thought* Er, no. *audience laughter*
It is a flower whose type is often to be found on an English window-sill?
That is, would it be potted rather than growing in a flower-bed.
In an English country windowsill? No.
Is the female person's name integral to the name of the flower (eg, "Violet") as opposed to a variety of flower named after a specific individual?
Integral Name? No. INJ's Rosa Alan Titchmarsh is the exact form you are looking for: <flower><first name><last name>.
A tropical variety ?
Camellia Hari Withers?
Tropical? Largely topical, yes. *applause*
Parker-Bowles-Googie-Withers? No.
An aquatic plant?
Aquatic? No.
Er, in answer to irach's previous question, it is largely tropical. It is not particularly topical.
Native to the S.E. of the U.S.of A.?
Native to SEUSA? No. Which, um, you might have deduced from the fact that the SEUSA is not tropical...
Native to SE Asia?
Does it grow higher than a telephone box?
Native to SE Asia? Yes. (I could give a rather more detailed and pedantic answer, but I think Yes is the most helpful.)
Higher than a phone box? No.
A fragrant flower?
Fragrant? Hmmm... In general these flowers are often fragrant but I don't know for sure about this particular varietal.
In the orchid family?
An oleander variety?
In the orchid family? Yes. *applause*
oleander? No.
Masdevallia Celine Dion?
MCd? No.
Is the female person alive?
As this could take a long time...
Vanda Miss Joaquim?
Orchid Cyd (Charrisse) ?
Living? Yes.
Vanda Miss Joaquim? No, but *significant applause*
Orcyd? No.
Vanda Annette Jones?
Vanda Annette Jones? No. *significant silence*
Is it a 'National Flower'?
National flower? No. At least, that's not a description I would use... *laughter*
(I like this audience. It laughs at my jokes.)
(Perhaps the 'significant applause' to Miss Joaquim was too strong. Think of it more as applause that recognized a connection to the answer.)
N.B. We knew she was a national treasure, but it turns out that Linnea Borealis is also Sweden's national flower
Is it in the sub-family Apostasioideae?
Apostosio ... Apostasioioi ... Apastasio ... what he said? No.
Dendrobium Imelda Marcos?
Must be a slipper orchid.
Dendrobium Imelda Marcos? No. *the audience greets INJ's joke with stony silence*

However, then *the audience applauds excitedly*. "Dendrobium" is indeed the first word on the card. And "Imelda Marcos"? No, but ... so very, very close. *guffaws of laughter from the audience*.
I hate to have to say this, but [INJ], your sources have deceived you - the twinflower is the province flower of one of Sweden's provinces, it's not a national flower. (Sweden doesn't have one.) It's quite pretty though :-)
Aranthera Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo?
Please ignore my earlier question. I cross-posted.
Dendrobium victoriae-reginae?
Is the named person connected with politics?
[Phil] Good grief, is she still alive?
[Néa] Sadly, you're right (of course), but it does appear as a factoid in quite a few places.
D'oh!
Does the first letter of the second word come in the second half of the alphabet?
AGMA? No.
DVR? No.
Connected with politics? Yes. *applause*,
First letter of second word in third half of the alphabet? No (nor in the second half).
Was it initially hybridised in Singapore?
Hybridised in Singapore? Yes. *applause*
Well, I've got 2 that match all the criteria (though there are probably more, since it seems to be the norm that important visitors are given a tour of the Orchid Gardens and then have the latest cultivar named after them). However, etiquette demands that someone else gets a go first....
[INJ] I don't know -- I think you asked the vast majority of the key questions in this round (identifying it as a specific named varietal, native to SE Asia, and as an orchid, for example), so I doubt if anyone would begrudge you victory. I'm surprised you found more than one, given all the audience reactions, although I haven't checked the list myself.
[CdM] I agree. I think that INJ should deliver the cut of grass and take the baton. I was persuaded by the audience reaction and your response to INJ's "Imelda Marcos" suggestion that the connection was the Phillipines.
Philippines? No. Don't listen to the audience; they are purposely being obscurantist.
Let's try Den. Kaneko Ikeda?
Thank goodness that it wasn't in the 2nd half of the alphabet, or I'd have been forced to try den. Margaret Thatcher!
If this is wrong then it's definitely someone else's turn
And then again.....
Ah, I've just realised that you could take the 'second word' question 2 ways - I was thinking about the second word of the name, not the second word on the card. If I have misapprehended, then please amend my answer as appropriate - especially as St Margaret is a 'better' answer.
Den. Margaret Thatcher it is! A delicate flower if ever there was one (and, yes, I puzzled over the meaning of "second word" too). *hands hybridized baton to INJ*
*ponders the matter of how confusing the term "second word" can be, given that one had just been informed of the correctness of the first word* The list of 1900 dendrobia did not include that one :-(
[Phil] Nothing wrong with your question, and I answered it correctly -- but I did have the same initial reaction as INJ. I think that, mentally, the first word was out of the way, and we were now concentrating on a two-word name, so it was easy to think of the second word in that delimited context.
(Or, possibly, it's some kind of genetic defect.)
I put it down to dipping in and out very quickly.
The next one is MINERAL with ANIMAL connections
The Old Man of Hoy?
[CdM] - A Hoy there? - NO
I'm pretty much in wall-to-wall meetings today, so may not get back to this until later. So here's a few answers in advance:
- NO
- Partly
Damn, I didn't think you'd ask that - YES
[INJ] Are you a carpet fitter by trade?
Is the animal human?
[INJ] Is dipping in and out a genetic defect too? *grins*
Mineral metallic?
Is it pig iron?
OK here we go
[Kim] - Carpet Fitter? - NO ;-)
[Phil] - Human? - NO (anticipated as first question)
[Software] - Metal? - NO (wrong question)
[Kim] - Rock Island Line cargo? - NO (you were obviously put off by Software getting it wrong)
Is the animal a bird?
[Néa] - a bird? - NO
Is the animal a mammal?
Rock lobster?
[Irach] - a mammal? - YES
[Phil] - Rocky Lobster Show - NO
A farm animal?
Is the subject a representation of said mammal?
[irach] - cowsheepchickenllama? - NO
[Dujon] - a representation? - NO (but *some applause*)
Tiger-eye (the gemstone)?
A natural feature?
Does it begin with P?
[irach] - Eye of the tiger? - NO
[Rosie] - Natural? - NO
[CdM] - P-led? - Damn, I didn't think you'd ask that - YES
Is it the animal component that begins with the letter "P"?
[irach] - Panimals? - NO
Unique?
[INJ] Is that because you thought I'd ask that, not CdM?
The "Pink Panther" gem of Clouseau infamy?
[Tuj] -Unique - YES (No, just because it hadn't been asked so much recently)
[irach] - La Panthère Rose? - NO
Smaller than a toaster?
[INJ] Ah. Well, I've not spent much time MCing lately =)
[Tuj] < Toaster - NO
Would this be a fossil?
A work of art?
[Dujon] - Fossil? - NO
[CdM] - Work of art? - NO is probably the most useful answer, though there will be dissenting voices
A work of architecture?
[CdM] - The Built Environment? - YES (I couldn't have made that much more obvious, could I?)
Oh, and *audience applause*
Is the animal feline?
Spooky
[Iroul] - with cat-like tread? - YES *considerable applause*
Is it a building with a feline link in the name?
Just to confirm
[Phil] - Is it a building with a feline link in the name? - it is a work of architecture with a feline link in its name
Is the work of architecture in the USA?
[Kim] - In USA? - NO
Is it zoomorphic?
Is the "cat" actually a puddy tat as opposed to, say, a lion?
A lion in Trafalgar Square
A few weeks ago, only one team out of eight in my pub quiz got the correct answer to "How many stone lions are there in Trafalgar Square?"
Hidden textNone, they are made of bronze
[GIII] - zoomorphic - NO
[Rosie] - Minimog? - NO *applause*
[Phil] - I knew the answer to that question, therefore I refer you to my answer to Software (OK then, - NO - to save you looking)
Sports connected?
Arts connected?
Is the work of architecture in England?
[Iroul] - Sporty? - NO
[Kim] - Arty? - NO
[Rosie] - Anglo-Saxony? - NO
The Pantheon
[Software] - Pantheon? - NO
Is it in Asia?
[Phil] - In Asia? - NO *audience remains interested*
BTW - as a clarification - the words on the card do begin with a 'P'. However, I would accept an answer that doesn't. Is that confusing enough?
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