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AVMA Take 2
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Yes, it's another round of that classic guessing game - Animal, Vegetable, Mineral, Abstract [or any combination thereof]. This effort - '03/'04 should address any queries, but then again, may just serve to confuse and baffle which some might say is the point of the game. Patience, integrity and a decent search engine may be useful ....
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Do people [who don't indulge themselves] regard this hobby in a .... sort of, derogatory way?
I can't help thinking about your reply to my question "Is this a form of entertainment" and you said NO and the audience actually chuckled.
[Chalky] A disrespected hobby? NO - The couple of people who chuckled were (like me) amused by the thought of someone exhibiting their collection for entertainment purposes. Probably not very helpful chuckles, but chuckles nonetheless.
[Quendalon] Sucrology? YES - Congratulations, it is the collecting of sugar sachets and sugar cube wrappings. The sweet smell of success is yours. The difference between the collected items (mostly not paper) and the accumulated items (mostly paper) is that sucrologists remove the sugar post-collection and pre-accumulation. The UK Sucrologists Club has around 320 members, publishes a quarterly newsletter called "Sweet Thoughts", and offers a link to (amongst others) the Berlin Museum of Sugar.
(Phil) A bit anorakky?? Positively pathetic, certifiable etc etc. I dunno.
Well, that was interesting! Let's move on to the next item:
Animal and/or Vegetable, with Abstract connections
Begins with P?
[Tuj] Starts with P? NO. *amused laughter from the audience*
Something people eat or drink?
[Irouléguy] Edible/potable? NO.
Is it bigger than a toaster?
One of those blocks, often round, found in public urinals?
Well, give me a break, I don't know what they are called. They usually have a (strong) scent and might have disinfectant properties.
Is the animal element human?
[Dujon] "Urinal blocks" is the disappointingly mundane term you're after.
Life?
(Phil) May be disappointingly mundane but intriguingly ambivalent, given the undesirablilty of a blocked urinal.
[Chalky] Bigger than a toaster? Bigger? How do you mean? Area? Thickness? Width? Height? Bulk? Mass? More famous? ;-)
[Dujon] Urinal cake? NO.
[Phil] A human(s)? NO.
[Rosie] Life? NO.
Does it have anything to do with bodily functions?
Is there more than one of these?
Ends with P?
Is there just one animal involved?
Would you be most likely to find one of these in a house?
[Kim] Bodily functions? NO.
[INJ] Unique? NO.
[Raak] Ends with P? NO. *audience laughs*
[Irouléguy] More than just one animal involved? There are several ways to interpret this question; I think the least misleading answer would be YES.
[Tuj] Likely to find one in a house? NO.
Anything to do with food?
Any connection with language?
[Rosie] Related to food? NO, not really.
[INJ] Connection with language? YES. *applause*
Is it an embroidery sample of the alphabet?
[Phil] Embroidery sampler? NO. *muttering from the audience*
Does this involve the whole animal, or just parts of it?
[Irouléguy] Whole animal or just parts? Just parts
Is it a Scrabble tile?
[Tuj] Scrabble tile? NO.
Is lettering involved?
[Phil] Lettering? NO.
Object or objects involved in writing?
Would someone use this in their place of work?
Would you describe this as an illustration?
Are these found throughout the world?
So this is connected to language but the animal element is not human... Wow.
[Rosie] Involved in writing? NO.
[Chalky] Used in a place of work? NO, at least not in any modern workplace.
[Dujon] An illustration? NO, I wouldn't describe it as such, though I suppose an argument could be made.
[CdM] Found throughout the world? Technically YES, although a NO would be less misleading.
[CdM] Fair enough, there's a human connection, but that's not the animal connection specified in the challenge parameters.
Is the animal part leather?
Is this a type of signage?
[G3] Leather? NO.
[Chalky] Signboard? NO.
Is this an object that is best known because it features in a literary work?
[Chalky] Featured in a literary work? NO, not to my knowledge.
Primitive art?
Eg Cave paintings, white horses, men with enormous plonkers etc?
[Rosie] Primitive art? NO. *interested muttering from the audience*
But is it art?
[Tuj] Art? NO.
Graffiti?
[Chalky] Unartistic graffiti? NO.
Did this exist in the past?
[Chalky] Existed in the past? YES! *applause*
Is the animal part feathers?
[Rosie] Feathers? NO.
That was quick. Bones, then?
[Rosie] Bones? NO.
Is the animal part skin?
Is the vegetable element paper ?
[Irouléguy] Skin? NO.
[G3] Paper? NO.
A single unique thing?
[Tuj] Unique? NO. *approving nods*
Fewer than ten?
;)
[Tuj] < 10? NO. :-)
Is this a catch-all description for multiple and variable instances?
[G3] Could you rephrase? I'm not 100% certain I grasp the meaning of the question.
Hieroglyphs?
I possibly should have said "multiple and unique instances". For example, a solution which would require the answer YES would be "Impressionist paintings", or "skyscrapers", a solution which would require the answer NO would perhaps be "Tyres" or "Lenovo T62 Thinkpads". On reflection a crap question.
[G3] Egyptian squiggles? NO.
[G3] Per the "multiple and unique instances" question, it's a good question, but rather ambiguous. I think the thing under discussion falls somewhere in between your two examples.
So... manmade?
Well, we seem to have got a whole heap of nowhere so far!
[Tuj] Manmade? Definitely YES. (Do you need a recap?)
Would you find this in a museum?
Does this always involve the same part of the animal (ie limb, organ)?
[Chalky] In a museum? YES.
[Irouléguy] Same animal component? YES.
Is this a container of some sort?
[Rosie] Something to put other objects into? NO.
Does this involve multiple species?
A totem pole?
[Irouléguy] Multiple species? Collectively YES, individually I DON'T KNOW.
[Chalky] Totem pole? NO.
Something to do with fossils?
[Kim] Fossils? NO.
Are we talking fur/pelt here - or BLOOD!?
..ahem - just trying to inject a touch of drama :-)
[Chalky] Animal fur/hair? YES. (Blood? NO. :-)
A form of apparel?
[Dujon] Garment / accoutrement? NO.
Inca 'talking knots' - quipus/khipus?
[Irouléguy] Quipu? YES! *wild cheers from the audience* You've tied all the clues together and untangled a rather knotty problem. Good job!
Well, I can't claim all the credit - I was in cahoots with the others.

For a change of pace, our next is ABSTRACT with ANIMAL and MINERAL connections.
Begins with S?
[Quendalon] Nice one.
CdM] Begins with S? Sadly not.
Begins with a vowel?
Fictional?
Observable in nature?
Chalky] Begins with a vowel? On
Raak] Fictional? Dr. No
Kim] Observable in nature? *animated buzz in the audience* I'm very glad you asked me that...

I can see a case for answering either way, but I think 'yes' is less misleading
Is it visible or audible?
Is the animal connection human?
CdM] Is it visible or audible? Hmm...insofar as it is 'observable', you would have to say it's visible. Audible, no.
(Quendalon] Is the animal connection human? Yes
Is it a meteorological phenomenon?
Kim] Is it a meteorological phenomenon? No
Related to astronomy?
Quendalon] Brother Sun, Sister Moon? *applause* YES
Is it a constellation?
Kim] Is it a constellation? You cannot be Sirius, man!
Does this change from moment to moment even though retaining its description?
A collection of objects?
Dujon] Does this change from moment to moment even though retaining its description? *cries of 'oooh' and 'aaah' from the audience* In one sense, that's a very good description of it, but it doesn't get you any nearer.
Rosie - A collection of objects? No - this isn't a physical thing or things.
An aura of some sort?
[Iroulé] How do you know that your reply to Duj won't get him any nearer ? ;-)
Is it within the Solar System (understood as everything out to and including the Oort cloud)?
Chalky] An aura of some sort? No
Good point - I suspect it won't get him or anyone else any nearer, then.
Raak] Is it within the Solar System (understood as everything out to and including the Oort cloud)? Bearing in mind my answer to Rosie's question, yes.
anything to do with Astrology?
Does it relate to the movement or path of some celestial object?
Chalky] anything to do with Astrology? Fortunately, no.
ImNotJohn] Does it relate to the movement or path of some celestial object? *applause* YES - though 'relate' isn't perhaps the most appropriate verb.

Some assumptions should perhaps be re-examined.
When Venus is in conjunction with Mars?
Chalky] When Venus is in conjunction with Mars? No, no sexual connotations.
Named after a specific person?
The ecliptic?
An apogee?
Quendalon] Named after a specific person? *some giggling in the audience* For a particular value of 'person', yes.
ImNotJohn - The ecliptic? No
Phil - An apogee? No

A transit of Venus?
The Clarke Orbit?
Currently accepted as scientifically valid/viable/real/true?
ImNotJohn] A transit of Venus? No
Chalky] The Clarke Orbit? Well, I never knew that - a fitting memorial. Thanks, Chalky - that led me into a very pleasant Google. What Wikipedia doesn't say is whether there are other inventions/phenomena named after SF writers - does anyone know of others?
It's not the answer, though.
Quendalon] Currently accepted as scientifically valid/viable/real/true? Correct/accurate/exact/accepted even by flat-earthers and creationists.
The Kirkwood Gaps?
Is the animal connection the "named 'person'" from Quendalon's question?
It has animal and mineral connections, but no vegetable connections, which suggests the earth is not directly involved.
Rosie] The Kirkwood Gaps? No
CdM] Is the animal connection the "named 'person'" from Quendalon's question? Not the main one.
CdM thinking aloud] It has animal and mineral connections, but no vegetable connections, which suggests the earth is not directly involved.
I don't agree - the answer could be 'the equator' or 'the stratosphere', neither of which I would think of as having vegetable connections. This is an abstract, after all - the animal and mineral connections are the physical things without which it wouldn't exist.
The Van Allen belts?
Is the Earth the mineral connection?
A feature of the surface of the earth?
ImNotJohn] The Van Allen belts? No
Quendalon - Is the Earth the mineral connection? *applause* It's the main one, but not the only one.
Rosie - A feature of the surface of the earth? No

Back after the match.
The Trojan points?
Gravity?
Hooray, the "Whoops!" works :-)
Raak - The Trojan points? No
Phil - Gravity? No
Yes, the "Whoops" is a great invention.

To quote CdM, "Again I say, re-examine your assumptions." It's worth re-reading Quendalon's second question, ImNotJohn's first, and Dujon's
Celestial Co-ordinates?
Oppolzer's Canon of Eclipses?
Is this a form of electro-magnetic effect?
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