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AVMA Take 2
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Yes, it's another round of that classic guessing game - Animal, Vegetable, Mineral, Abstract [or any combination thereof]. This effort - '03/'04 should address any queries, but then again, may just serve to confuse and baffle which some might say is the point of the game. Patience, integrity and a decent search engine may be useful ....
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[Bigsmith] Time piece? NO
[Irouléguy] Bigger than a £1 coin? Bigger? How do you mean? Area? Thickness? Width? Height? Bulk? Mass? More famous?:-)
[Irouléguy] Re: the size thing - I've just dashed off a spot of differential calculus and come to the conclusion that it IS and it ISN'T.
Does it have any moving parts?
I keep asking the same questions every time. Is this a sign of consistency or insanity?
Is it a battery?
[Quendalon] Moving parts? NO

[Raak] A battery? NO
Is it primarily made of metal?
Are these objects custom-made?
[CdM] Primarily metal? NO
[Rosie] Custom-made? NO
Primarily ornamental in nature?
[Quendalon] Ornamental? Most definitely NOT
Does it have anything to do with security?
Would this object contain a magnetic stripe?
[Raak] Security? sort of
[Dujon] Magnetic stripe? It's a bit late for me to look it up [mainly because I'm off to bed now], but YES - I think it could have one of those things
will be back at ten a.m. tomorrow
A plastic card (debit, credit, etc)?
Currency?
Is it worth more than £1?
late on parade
[Rosie] A plastic card? YES! *audience cheers but not for the parenthesised bit*
{Quendalon] Currency? NO
[Raak] Worth more than a £1? To some - maybe

Am entertaining the Sunday Lunchers today so may not be here til later this evening.
An Oyster card?
An identity card of some sort?
[Rosie] Actually, I don't think it's either of those [Oyster?] - but please keep asking because you are on the right track ...
[Rosie] ....and, on reflection, it's not an identity card per se but damn close to one
A driver's licence?
[rab] Your new system works well. I just hit the 'enter' key instead of the 'apostrophe' and managed to recover. Thank you.
Does it typically display a photograph of the owner?
[Dujon] I'd imagine that a driver's license is worth more than a pound to most people...
A library card?
A Nectar card?
AA membership card?
[Dujon] Drivers licence? NO
[CdM] Photograph? NO
[Rosie] Library card? NO
[Raak] Nectar card? NO
[Irouléguy] AA membership card? NO

Re: the point I made last night about being damn close to an ID card. Having slept on the matter, as it were, perhaps I should clarify:
It identifies something but not necessarily someone
Oh - previously [Dujon] question. It DOESN'T have a magnetic stripe, ie. it's not for swiping.
A bar code?
[Raak] A bar code? NO
Is it the same size as a credit card?
[rab] Does size matter? *audience applauds the question* It IS and then it ISN'T [see my reply to Irouléguy up the page] As an additional clue - not that it's needed at this stage because we're nearly there - in most countries, we think of it as somewhat smaller than a credit card.
Is it something we would normally expect to use/see on a daily basis?
[Graham III] use/see on daily basis? Use - YES. See - depends on viewpoint - ie. if you were manufacturing it, then yes. But normally NO - not daily, but certainly occasionally.
A SIM card?
Yay!
Raak has the very words on the card.
Well played. IMHO four days including a weekend is about right for this game. Of course, it depends on whether one is available to reply promptly, which I hope I was

*hands smart baton over*
Ok, the next is VEGETABLE and MINERAL, with ABSTRACT connections.
Begins with a P?
Smaller than a toaster?
A geographical feature?
Chalky] Smaller? How do you mean? Area? Thickness? Width? Height? Bulk? Mass? Of lower social status?;-)
[Tuj] Does not begin with P.
[Chalky] Smaller in all of the ways which Irouléguy has enumerated.
I think I've simulposted which may make nonsense of my words. [Editor] Nothing new there then.
[Irouléguy] It's not really your place to say :-)
I'm content with Raak's reply *giggles at lower social status bit. In retrospect, that was funny. *
[Raak] See? That Iroulé bloke has distracted you - how about the geographical thing?
[I] Not a geographical feature. (There's not many of those that are smaller than a toaster!)
[C] I'm serious about the social status! This thing really does rank below the humble toaster.
Is it used to perform some menial task?
Is it manufactured?
Is the vegetable wood?
[B] Not for a menial task.
[r] Yes, manufactured.
[I] Could be wood in part.
Would one find it in the kitchen?
[S] Not related to the kitchen.
Is it typically found in the home?
Does it require a power source?
Larger than a SIM card?
[CdM] Not typically found in the home.
[B] Requires no power source.
[C] Larger than a SIM card.
Would an owner normally have just one of these?
Chalky] I know my place ;)
Is it something of practical utility?
Do people carry these things with them when out?
[I] An owner would have many.
[r] Very practical.
[R] If they have them, they would.
A clarification of my last answer to CdM: a typical home would not have any, but a typical one of these might well be in someone's home.
Is it something one wears?
[rab] One does not wear it.
A golf tee?
Is the mineral bit solid metal?
Is this a projectile?
A walking stick?
Shut up at the back there.
[I] Not a golf tee.
[C] Not solid metal.
[D] Not a projectile.
[R] Not a walking stick.
Is it mostly for use outside the home?
Is its practical utility restricted to one thing only (ie, does it have more than one use)?
Is the vegetable bit wood?
[rab] Yes, mostly used outside the home.
[Kim] Um. It does one thing, but that one thing has many uses.
[Software] See INJ's question earlier.
Connected with travel or motion?
Does it include an implement for getting Scouts out of horses hooves?
[Chalky] Nothing to do with travel or motion.
[Kim] Not a Swiss Army penknife.
Would one normally keep these objects in one's pocket?
[Bigsmith] Yes, one's pocket is a typical place to carry these (although the typical pocket does not contain any).
Is it an object that is only carried on particular occasions?
Is it something one would look through?
Is there a particular kind of person (e.g., age, occupation, specialized interest) who is most likely to carry these objects?
Are these objects more likely to be used by a specific gender?
Is there anything written on it?
A box/book of matches?
[R] Not related to particular occasions.
[r] Not for looking through.
[C] Yes! A particular sort of person would deliberately have these.
[B] Not gender-related.
[Q] Yes, there is stuff written on it (using the word "written" rather generally).
[S] Not a book or box of matches.
Is it used in a game?
[rab] Not used in a game.
Do people use these for work?
Is it a form of 'currency'?
Is any part of it edible, potable and/or smokable?
[I] In a sense, some people do use these for work.
[C] *at last, the audience exercise their applause muscles* It is a form of currency!
[Q] You can't eat or drink it, and one wouldn't want to smoke it.
A five euro note?
Is it "sterling"?
Is it a well-known phrase to describe a type of currency ?
and was this currency used in the past?
sorry .... a bit greedy with 2 questions - but I'm orf to bed now, have an early start, etc etc.
[CdM] Not €5.
[rab] Not sterling.
[Chalky] Not a well-known phrase.
[Chalky] I dare say that this form of currency is as old as currency itself.
Change?
Casino chips?
[Rosie] Not change.
[Chalky] Not casino chips.
Is this paper currency?
Beer token? :o)
Is it a voucher of some kind?
From the U S of A?
[Chalky] *cheering* It is paper currency.
[Software] Not a beer token.
[Kim] Not a voucher.
[Bigsmith] Not specifically from the USA.
An IOU?
A pawn ticket?
The thing you get from the dry-cleaners?
[CdM,Chalky,Kim] None of these are what I would call paper currency.
One of the earliest answers may now prove illuminating.
OK - is it a banknote of some kind?
Am intrigued by the 'wood in part' reply [or was that a reference to paper?] Also, the fact that it ranks below the humble toaster
[Chalky] *applause* It's a banknote of some kind. The wood was indeed a reference to paper. *A ripple of anticipation as Chalky seizes on the significant earlier answer.*
Is the monetary value of this banknote insufficient to conduct the purchase of an average price toaster?
[Bigsmith] From one point of view, it could be, from another, it couldn't be enough to buy a toaster.
A promissary note?
[by way of explanation] some bank notes are promissory notes, some are not.
A forged banknote?
Is its use confined to professionals in the world of finance?
A traveller's cheque?
Is it official currency of any nation at the present time?
[G3,R,K,Q] No, because...
[Chalky] It is a forged banknote.
Hands over a wad of fivers all with the same serial number.
Wahay!
Thanks Raak. We seem to be on the same wavelength :-)
[I thought I knew the solution when you replied half an hour after my 'banknote' question. But I did wait for 3 hours.)
Now - we have this:

A N I M A L with a tinge of ABSTRACTINESS

A Cheshire Cat?
A human being who is bigger than a toaster and smaller than a telephone box?
Cézanne?
Is this animal used as a symbol?
A mascot?
[Rosie] cat from cheshire? NO
[CdM] A human being? YES :-)
[Irouléguy] Cézanne? NON
[Raak] Animal as symbol? N-N-NO
[Software] A mascot? NO
A singloe, specific individual?
[Raak] A specific, singly individual YES
A figurehead in some way?
Alive?
[Phil] A figurehead? Not sure what you mean but I'd say NOT
[Irouléguy] Alive? NO
Someone who has given his/her name to an idea?
[Rosie] Given name to an idea? GOOD QUESTION. YES - in a manner of speaking [that's the abstracty bit]
Robin Hood?
artistic connections?
Died in the 20th century?
[Kim] Robin Hood? NO
[INJ} Artistic connections? NO
[Iroulé] Died in 20th century? YES
Is this person noteworthy in regards to religion?
An academic?
[Quendalon] Religion? NO
[Raak] An academic? Of a kind - YES
Belgian European?
Sigmund Freud?
[CdM] European? Close YES
[Rosie] Freud? NO
Philosopher?
[Graham III] Philosopher? NO
A writer?
[Rosie] Writer? NO
A very dear friend died of cancer this afternoon. Can we convene on Monday ? I'm doubly sad today.
[Chalky] Sorry to hear that.
[Chalky] What Raak said. Such times are always hard. You've got friends who are thinking of you.
Chalky] What Raak and CdM said - imagine a collective hug wending its way to you.
[Chalky] Take all the time you need. We'll just check in from time to time.
[Irouléguy ] You means a wrappy wending?
Thank you all :-)
I must confess I was rather the worse for wine maudlin the early hours of Sunday. Many of his friends decided to go ahead with an already planned get-together Saturday night which was absolutely the right thing to do.
OK - let's be having some more questions ... perhaps beginning with the sex/occupation of this person ...
Is it a transsexual?
[Graham III] Transexual? Not as far as I can tell - although if one dug deeply enough ...
Did this person have a sex occupation?
[CdM] Sex occupation? NO - I've dug deeply and have found no record of any how's-yer-farver professionally, advisorililly, subversively or personally.
Female?
Suppose I ought to ask a sensible question.
Politician?
[Graham III] Female? NO
[Kim] Politician? NO
A composer?
[Rosie] Composer? NO
Entertainer?
Heath-Robinson?
[Softers] Entertainer? NO
[CdM] Heath-Robinson! NO! but it could so easily have been ...
Died in the latter half of the 20th Century?
Rube Goldberg?
[Kim] Latter half of C20? NO - very much the first half [nearly the first quarter]
[Projoy] Rube Goldberg? NO [nice to see you here :-)]
A scientist?
Economist?
[Projoy] A scientist? YES! * audience emerges from its stupor and attempts a mexican wave*
[Kim] Economist? NO *audience calms down a bit*
French?
[Projoy] French? NO
Albert Einstein
Hmm, a scientist, but only a sort-of academic...
[Graham III] Albert Einstein? NO but ... very very close *gasps of genuine anticipation from audience*
Scientist AND academic - aren't all scientists academic?
Planck?
Einstein wrote his most famous papers while working as a clerk, I believe, rather than being in a University.
Werner Heisenberg?
Of course I am Uncertain about this and have a feeling Projoy has it.
Schrodinger?
[PJ, Rosie, Quend] NOT Planck, Heisenberg or Schrodinger. Clue: All are the wrong nationality.
British?
Died before 1920?
[Raak] British? NO
[Projoy] Died before 1920? NO
Niels Bohr?
[Graham III] Bohr? NO
German?
[Kim] German? I refer the Honourable Crescenter to my reply to PJ, Rosie & Quendalon
Enrico Fermi?
[Chalky] As it happens, Schrodinger was Austrian. :-)
Sigmund Freud?
Dutch?
Arrhenius?
[Quendalon] Yes, I know Schrodinger was Austrian [as I am also aware that the other two were German ]- which is why I said that all 3 were the wrong nationality. I rather thought I was being helpful ... and didn't expect it to come back and bite me on the bum... :-)
[Q] Fermi? NO
[Phil] Freud? NO
[[Projoy] Dutch? YES! *audience girds its loins*
[Quendalon] Arrhenius? NO
van der Waals?
[Rosers] van der Waals? NO
Anthony Fokker?
Hendrik Antoon Lorentz?
[Software] Fokker? hell no :-)

but Graham III proves that persistence pays off by nailing the man. Well played Sir!
*passes on the electromagnetic baton*
Yayyyy!
We get there eventually. So, moving swiftly on:

ABSTRACT with various mineral and animal (and probably vegetable) associations/manifestations
The Man Who Broke the Bank at Monte Carlo?
[Chalky] Damn, but you're good. That's obviously correct.
[Chalky] TMWBtBaMC? No, 'fraid not.
God?
[GIII] Oh come on! It's completely against the rules to change the subject after the first guess!
A geographical feature/features?
[Raak] God? NO
[CdM] That would make for a long game. I don't have the patience...
[Irouléguy] Geography? NO
A written work?
Begins with a P?
A human idea/invention etc?
[Quendalon] Written? NO.
[Tuj] Pee? NO
[Rosie] Human? YES!
Invented in the last 100 years?
Connected with chemistry and/or biochemistry?
Is this an emotion/feeling?
A creative activity?
Stigmata?
I can be just as stupid as the next poster, GIII.
[Tuj] Last century? NO, but examine your assumptions.
[Quendalon] Chemie? NO, except possibly indirectly (I say that for completeness - not a helpful line of thought)
[Chalky] Emotional? NO
[Rosie] Creative? NO, not obviously.
[Dujon] Stigmata? NO, dur. ;-)
Named after a specific person?
Is this concerned with the acquisition of knowledge?
[Quendalon] YES/NO - named after two people. Finding them is unlikely to be a fruitful avenue of questioning, but maybe a pertinent fact later on in the game.
[Rosie] Knowledge-hungry? NO
Discovered in the last 100 years?
Any better? ;)
Is it a comet?
[Tuj] NO, and NO. :-)
[Kim] Tailed sun-circler? NO
Connected with money and/or economics?
[Quendalon] YES! *audience applauds with vigour*
The Chicago school?
Marxist-Leninism?
A unit of currency?
Is this an index?
[Raak] Friedmanesque? NO, see Quendalon's question above
[Rosie] Stalinesque? NO.
[Phil] CU? NO
[Dujon] Index? NO.
Do the names of the two people appear on the card?
and since I'm feeling greedy
Were the two eponymizing individuals both born before 1900?
[CdM] Difficult to answer your first question helpfully. I suggest you re-read Quendalon's question, and my answer.
pre-1900? YES!
Malthuniasism?
[Software] Malthusianism? NO, he was only one person I believe.
Clue: More questioning about the nature of this thing will yield much better results than the current line of questioning.
Is it a game?
Is it a theory?
Connected with representative money?
[Chalky] Game? NO
[Software] Theory? NO
[All] Game Theory? Two wrongs don't make a right
[Quendalon] Representative? Certainly has some related aspects, but not a connection you would naturally think of if someone mentioned this.
A piece of technology?
Connected with the transport of material goods?
[Rosie] Techie? NO
[Quendalon] Transport? NO
Is it connected with economics but not necessarily with money?
[GIII] Having reread Q's question and your answer I'm still none the wiser. :-) I get your advice to pursue other lines of questioning, but I'm puzzled as to why my pretty straightforward question is hard to answer (I don't doubt that it is; I'm just puzzled as to why). So let me look for clarification. We've established that this is named after two people.
Does the name (or some word/variant directly derived from the name) of at least one of these individuals appear on the card?
[CdM] Connected with economics but not necessarily with money? NO, more the other way round
Does the name (etc.) of at least one of these individuals appear on the card? YES!
[CdM] By way of a clue, if you were to remove one consonant from your original question (and twist the grammar to fit), I would have been able to answer YES, and you would have been further advanced. Because of that consonant, the answer (strictly) would have to be NO, but only because of pedantry and semantics. I therefore declined to answer in the hope of being helpful...
Do the two people have the same surname?
Marks and Spencer?
Barclays Bank?
Gresham's law?
[Irouléguy] Named for Thomas Gresham and John Law, right?
[Phil] YES! *audience applauds wildly, as Phil has got the key fact behind the name!
[Rosie] M&S? NO
[Irouleguy] Gresham & Law? NO, but:
[Chalky] Barclays Bank? YES! *Audience goes wild, applauding and generally fawning over Chalky*
CdM, GIII] According to Wikipedia, the expression "Gresham's Law" dates back only to 1858, and was coined (ho ho) by British economist Henry Dunning Macleod. Two people involved, only one surname in the answer, about money rather than economics - I was slightly straw-clutching, and it seemed possible.
Well done, Chalky - you're on a roll at the moment!
And another thing
Has there beem some confusion between Barclays Bank, which is as old as the hills and owes it name to one individual, and the squillionaire Barclay brothers, who own the Torygraph amongst other things. I only arsk.
[Rosie] Not according to Wikipedia. "The bank took its name from Alexander and David Barclay, who provided credit to transatlantic slave traders." I checked Barclays own site, but they don't seem to want to talk about their history...
Blimey - I wasn't really trying to win that one - particularly as I've been in the chair rather a lot recently. It's a busy week ahead for me [mainly away from my PC], so would anyone else like to take over?
[Chalky] I'd better not.
[Rosie] What CdM said - as you say, there appears to be some confusion... ;-)
[Chalks] I'LL do it! That is, if it's okay with everybody.
*in power-hungry mode*

[Graham III] I've just looked back to the beginning of this game and now understand why the audience felt duty bound to 'generally fawn' over me when I answered correctly. Pure guilt. For what, you may ask? For not even a merest rustle of surprise and astonishment when my, and the very first question, was SO CLOSE! Even the esteemed CdM knew I was right on the button. And they didn't applaud him either. :-) :-)

So if I am allowed to nominate - I shall choose CdM - and if he isn't available to take up the baton, I shall launch another one
ooh - simulpost.
[Juxta] Are you available to reply to questions regularly - like, more than twice in 24 hours? because that doesn't 'arf drag it out
[Juxtapose] Go for it!
[Chalky] Go for it!
[Juxtapose] Perhaps it would be fairer to allow someone - if not CdM :-) - who actually contributed towards the last puzzler to come forward first?
*maintaining stance*
I don't mind doing one, as I really thought I was going to get the last one :-)
[Phil] Excellent. Was hoping you'd appear :-)
Well, I do tend to check in about 8 times a day, and I haven't done one for yonks, so I vote for me ;-)
If no-one objects, I'd like to set the next challenge as ABSTRACT with ANIMAL and VEGETABLE connections
Human construct?
Begins with a "P"?
Been dying to ask that one!
An artistic work?
Does it have anything to do with fish?
[Chalky] I suppose on reflection you were sort of close with your first guess... My bad, as they say somewhere.
Is the animal human?
A philosophy?
I've Got a Loverly Bunch of Coconuts?
An anarcho-syndicalist recipe
[Chalky] No Comment.
[Kim] Human construct? YES
[Bigsmith] P? NO
[Raak] Artistic work? NO
[GIII] Piscine? NO
[CdM] Phil O'Sophy? NO
[Chalky] Your bunch? Very impressive, but NO
[INJ] Anarcho-thingy-whatsit? NO
Anything to do with mobile phones?
[Tuj] Mobile phones? NO
Some form of study?
[Rosie] Some form of study? Strictly-speaking, NO, although some study would normally be associated.
Phil - Is this abstract thing something that people would do for a living, say?
Would this be some form of skill?
A legislative activity?
[Chalky] Done for a living? NO - a murmur of appreciation from the audience for an almost useful question
[Dujon] A skill? NO
[Rosie] Legislative activity? NO
Is the vegetable connection paper?
Phil] You missed out my previous question.
[Irouléguy] Huge apologies:
Is the animal human? YES
Is the vegetable connection paper? Partly - some hesitant applause
Is this a form of entertainment?
A recreational activity of some kind?
[Chalky] Entertainment? NO A couple of amused chuckles
[CdM] Recreational activity? Having looked up definitions of "recreation", I fell compelled to say YES, but it might not be what springs to most minds as recreation.
Anything to do with the law?
[Rosie] Law-related? NO
Is writing involved?
Is the animal a character of fiction?
Is the definition of recreation under which you answered YES to one of the previous questions as a result of the second sub-definition within the second definition in Chambers?
That's here.
[CdM] Writing involved? Not necessarily, but it would be normal.
[Kim] Fictional animal? NO
[GIII] Did I mean "a new creation"? NO.
In fact, using the Chambers definition, I would say a definite YES to CdM's earlier question on reacreational activities, rather than my earlier vacillation.
Does an instance of this activity involve more than one human?
[Quendalon] an instance involving more than one human? It can do, but it doesn't have to.
So, the definition is "a pleasant, enjoyable and often refreshing activity done in one's spare time." The answer is therefore clearly

Drinking Beer.

Phil's confusion was understandable, since he typically does not do this in his spare time.
Philately?
Some kind of music making activity?
[CdM] Drinking Beer? NO (remember, it's not done for a living)
[CdM] Philately? NO - considerable applause from the suddenly-revived audience
[Chalky] Music-making? NO
So we are looking at a hobby of some sort, in which through study a level of expertise may be achieved?
Does it involve the accumulation of items over time?
[Bigsmith] A hobby? YES *some applause*
[Bigsmith 2nd half of question] Gaining a level of expertise? I suppose so, but I wouldn't focus on that if I were you.
[GIII] Accumulation of items? YES *vigorous applause*
Are the items made primarily of paper?
Is the wearing of an anorak a requirement for the complete enjoyment of this hobby?
Beermat collecting?
[Raak] Made primarily of paper? After a little extra research, YES, the items accumulated are usually primarily made of paper (carefully-worded answer) - *some applause and a little discussion amongst audience members*
[Chalky] Anorak-wearing? NO - *appreciative laughter*
[GIII] Beermat collecting? NO
Is the focus for collection the items themselves, or some feature (e.g. writing) on the items?
[GIII] Items or writing on them? Strictly speaking the answer should be YES. But as it's Friday, I'll answer that the focus would be on some feature (e.g. writing) on the items. *Some more applause*
Made of papier mâché?
Autograph-hunting?
[Raak] Mashed paper? NO
[Irouléguy] Philography? NO
Cigarette card collecting?
[Phil] Thanks. I was lazily trying to get two questions in at once...!
[GIII] Cartophily? NO *audience is eagerly awaiting a correct guess, although a few think that Irouléguy's second question might be useful*
Flower pressing?
Some form of ticket?
This may violate the specified non-anorakiness.
Is the writing hand-written or printed?
Are the collected items mass-produced?
[GIII] Oshibana? NO
[Rosie] Ticket collecting? NO. On reflection, I think the activity is a bit anoraky, but I don't think it's required.
[Irouléguy] written or printed? Printed
[Quendalon] Mass-produced? YES
Is the collected item entirely vegetable?
This is strongly implied by previous answers, but I wanted to confirm. Also, interestingly (or perhaps not), when I first asked about recreation, I almost said hobby.
Is it made of cardboard?
Sports card collecting?
Top Trumps?
[CdM] Is the collected item entirely vegetable? There may be small traces of mineral, namely printing ink and ingredients in paper, but otherwise YES. (Hobby would have been a much easier question to answer).
[Raak] Made of cardboard? NO
[Quendalon] Sport cards? NO
[Chalky] Top Trumps? NO

[Everyone] As I mentioned earlier. the items accumulated are normally primarily made of paper. The items collected to provide that accumulation are not, but are still almost entirely vegetable. If that doesn't confuse the matter, I don't know what will ;-)
Phillumeny?
Scratch that, we've already established that it doesn't begin with a "P".
[Quendalon] Phillumeny? NO. Nor is it matchbook/matchbox collecting, for that matter.
Are the items collected labels of some sort?
[INJ] hmm - I was going to ask the same question ;-)
... and if the answer is 'YES' ...
[INJ] Labels? NO
Would this item cover a beermat?
You know. Them things.
[Rosie] Big enough to cover a beermat? NO - at least not in my experience or knowledge
Sucrology?
Kind of a shot in the dark. But if it's a game-winner, that'd be pretty sweet.
Do people [who don't indulge themselves] regard this hobby in a .... sort of, derogatory way?
I can't help thinking about your reply to my question "Is this a form of entertainment" and you said NO and the audience actually chuckled.
[Chalky] A disrespected hobby? NO - The couple of people who chuckled were (like me) amused by the thought of someone exhibiting their collection for entertainment purposes. Probably not very helpful chuckles, but chuckles nonetheless.
[Quendalon] Sucrology? YES - Congratulations, it is the collecting of sugar sachets and sugar cube wrappings. The sweet smell of success is yours. The difference between the collected items (mostly not paper) and the accumulated items (mostly paper) is that sucrologists remove the sugar post-collection and pre-accumulation. The UK Sucrologists Club has around 320 members, publishes a quarterly newsletter called "Sweet Thoughts", and offers a link to (amongst others) the Berlin Museum of Sugar.
(Phil) A bit anorakky?? Positively pathetic, certifiable etc etc. I dunno.
Well, that was interesting! Let's move on to the next item:
Animal and/or Vegetable, with Abstract connections
Begins with P?
[Tuj] Starts with P? NO. *amused laughter from the audience*
Something people eat or drink?
[Irouléguy] Edible/potable? NO.
Is it bigger than a toaster?
One of those blocks, often round, found in public urinals?
Well, give me a break, I don't know what they are called. They usually have a (strong) scent and might have disinfectant properties.
Is the animal element human?
[Dujon] "Urinal blocks" is the disappointingly mundane term you're after.
Life?
(Phil) May be disappointingly mundane but intriguingly ambivalent, given the undesirablilty of a blocked urinal.
[Chalky] Bigger than a toaster? Bigger? How do you mean? Area? Thickness? Width? Height? Bulk? Mass? More famous? ;-)
[Dujon] Urinal cake? NO.
[Phil] A human(s)? NO.
[Rosie] Life? NO.
Does it have anything to do with bodily functions?
Is there more than one of these?
Ends with P?
Is there just one animal involved?
Would you be most likely to find one of these in a house?
[Kim] Bodily functions? NO.
[INJ] Unique? NO.
[Raak] Ends with P? NO. *audience laughs*
[Irouléguy] More than just one animal involved? There are several ways to interpret this question; I think the least misleading answer would be YES.
[Tuj] Likely to find one in a house? NO.
Anything to do with food?
Any connection with language?
[Rosie] Related to food? NO, not really.
[INJ] Connection with language? YES. *applause*
Is it an embroidery sample of the alphabet?
[Phil] Embroidery sampler? NO. *muttering from the audience*
Does this involve the whole animal, or just parts of it?
[Irouléguy] Whole animal or just parts? Just parts
Is it a Scrabble tile?
[Tuj] Scrabble tile? NO.
Is lettering involved?
[Phil] Lettering? NO.
Object or objects involved in writing?
Would someone use this in their place of work?
Would you describe this as an illustration?
Are these found throughout the world?
So this is connected to language but the animal element is not human... Wow.
[Rosie] Involved in writing? NO.
[Chalky] Used in a place of work? NO, at least not in any modern workplace.
[Dujon] An illustration? NO, I wouldn't describe it as such, though I suppose an argument could be made.
[CdM] Found throughout the world? Technically YES, although a NO would be less misleading.
[CdM] Fair enough, there's a human connection, but that's not the animal connection specified in the challenge parameters.
Is the animal part leather?
Is this a type of signage?
[G3] Leather? NO.
[Chalky] Signboard? NO.
Is this an object that is best known because it features in a literary work?
[Chalky] Featured in a literary work? NO, not to my knowledge.
Primitive art?
Eg Cave paintings, white horses, men with enormous plonkers etc?
[Rosie] Primitive art? NO. *interested muttering from the audience*
But is it art?
[Tuj] Art? NO.
Graffiti?
[Chalky] Unartistic graffiti? NO.
Did this exist in the past?
[Chalky] Existed in the past? YES! *applause*
Is the animal part feathers?
[Rosie] Feathers? NO.
That was quick. Bones, then?
[Rosie] Bones? NO.
Is the animal part skin?
Is the vegetable element paper ?
[Irouléguy] Skin? NO.
[G3] Paper? NO.
A single unique thing?
[Tuj] Unique? NO. *approving nods*
Fewer than ten?
;)
[Tuj] < 10? NO. :-)
Is this a catch-all description for multiple and variable instances?
[G3] Could you rephrase? I'm not 100% certain I grasp the meaning of the question.
Hieroglyphs?
I possibly should have said "multiple and unique instances". For example, a solution which would require the answer YES would be "Impressionist paintings", or "skyscrapers", a solution which would require the answer NO would perhaps be "Tyres" or "Lenovo T62 Thinkpads". On reflection a crap question.
[G3] Egyptian squiggles? NO.
[G3] Per the "multiple and unique instances" question, it's a good question, but rather ambiguous. I think the thing under discussion falls somewhere in between your two examples.
So... manmade?
Well, we seem to have got a whole heap of nowhere so far!
[Tuj] Manmade? Definitely YES. (Do you need a recap?)
Would you find this in a museum?
Does this always involve the same part of the animal (ie limb, organ)?
[Chalky] In a museum? YES.
[Irouléguy] Same animal component? YES.
Is this a container of some sort?
[Rosie] Something to put other objects into? NO.
Does this involve multiple species?
A totem pole?
[Irouléguy] Multiple species? Collectively YES, individually I DON'T KNOW.
[Chalky] Totem pole? NO.
Something to do with fossils?
[Kim] Fossils? NO.
Are we talking fur/pelt here - or BLOOD!?
..ahem - just trying to inject a touch of drama :-)
[Chalky] Animal fur/hair? YES. (Blood? NO. :-)
A form of apparel?
[Dujon] Garment / accoutrement? NO.
Inca 'talking knots' - quipus/khipus?
[Irouléguy] Quipu? YES! *wild cheers from the audience* You've tied all the clues together and untangled a rather knotty problem. Good job!
Well, I can't claim all the credit - I was in cahoots with the others.

For a change of pace, our next is ABSTRACT with ANIMAL and MINERAL connections.
Begins with S?
[Quendalon] Nice one.
CdM] Begins with S? Sadly not.
Begins with a vowel?
Fictional?
Observable in nature?
Chalky] Begins with a vowel? On
Raak] Fictional? Dr. No
Kim] Observable in nature? *animated buzz in the audience* I'm very glad you asked me that...

I can see a case for answering either way, but I think 'yes' is less misleading
Is it visible or audible?
Is the animal connection human?
CdM] Is it visible or audible? Hmm...insofar as it is 'observable', you would have to say it's visible. Audible, no.
(Quendalon] Is the animal connection human? Yes
Is it a meteorological phenomenon?
Kim] Is it a meteorological phenomenon? No
Related to astronomy?
Quendalon] Brother Sun, Sister Moon? *applause* YES
Is it a constellation?
Kim] Is it a constellation? You cannot be Sirius, man!
Does this change from moment to moment even though retaining its description?
A collection of objects?
Dujon] Does this change from moment to moment even though retaining its description? *cries of 'oooh' and 'aaah' from the audience* In one sense, that's a very good description of it, but it doesn't get you any nearer.
Rosie - A collection of objects? No - this isn't a physical thing or things.
An aura of some sort?
[Iroulé] How do you know that your reply to Duj won't get him any nearer ? ;-)
Is it within the Solar System (understood as everything out to and including the Oort cloud)?
Chalky] An aura of some sort? No
Good point - I suspect it won't get him or anyone else any nearer, then.
Raak] Is it within the Solar System (understood as everything out to and including the Oort cloud)? Bearing in mind my answer to Rosie's question, yes.
anything to do with Astrology?
Does it relate to the movement or path of some celestial object?
Chalky] anything to do with Astrology? Fortunately, no.
ImNotJohn] Does it relate to the movement or path of some celestial object? *applause* YES - though 'relate' isn't perhaps the most appropriate verb.

Some assumptions should perhaps be re-examined.
When Venus is in conjunction with Mars?
Chalky] When Venus is in conjunction with Mars? No, no sexual connotations.
Named after a specific person?
The ecliptic?
An apogee?
Quendalon] Named after a specific person? *some giggling in the audience* For a particular value of 'person', yes.
ImNotJohn - The ecliptic? No
Phil - An apogee? No

A transit of Venus?
The Clarke Orbit?
Currently accepted as scientifically valid/viable/real/true?
ImNotJohn] A transit of Venus? No
Chalky] The Clarke Orbit? Well, I never knew that - a fitting memorial. Thanks, Chalky - that led me into a very pleasant Google. What Wikipedia doesn't say is whether there are other inventions/phenomena named after SF writers - does anyone know of others?
It's not the answer, though.
Quendalon] Currently accepted as scientifically valid/viable/real/true? Correct/accurate/exact/accepted even by flat-earthers and creationists.
The Kirkwood Gaps?
Is the animal connection the "named 'person'" from Quendalon's question?
It has animal and mineral connections, but no vegetable connections, which suggests the earth is not directly involved.
Rosie] The Kirkwood Gaps? No
CdM] Is the animal connection the "named 'person'" from Quendalon's question? Not the main one.
CdM thinking aloud] It has animal and mineral connections, but no vegetable connections, which suggests the earth is not directly involved.
I don't agree - the answer could be 'the equator' or 'the stratosphere', neither of which I would think of as having vegetable connections. This is an abstract, after all - the animal and mineral connections are the physical things without which it wouldn't exist.
The Van Allen belts?
Is the Earth the mineral connection?
A feature of the surface of the earth?
ImNotJohn] The Van Allen belts? No
Quendalon - Is the Earth the mineral connection? *applause* It's the main one, but not the only one.
Rosie - A feature of the surface of the earth? No

Back after the match.
The Trojan points?
Gravity?
Hooray, the "Whoops!" works :-)
Raak - The Trojan points? No
Phil - Gravity? No
Yes, the "Whoops" is a great invention.

To quote CdM, "Again I say, re-examine your assumptions." It's worth re-reading Quendalon's second question, ImNotJohn's first, and Dujon's
Celestial Co-ordinates?
Oppolzer's Canon of Eclipses?
Is this a form of electro-magnetic effect?
Phil - Celestial Co-ordinates? No
Rosie - Oppolzer's Canon of Eclipses? No
Dujon - Is this a form of electro-magnetic effect? No
Is it the Kuiper belt?
Does this involve man-made spacecraft?
Kim] Is it the Kuiper belt? No
Raak] Does this involve man-made spacecraft? No - complete abstract, remember?
Is it the intersection of two or more things?
Is it visible with the naked eye?
A light year?
or ... a parsec?
Going back to my first question - 'relates to the movement or path of a celestial object' (answered YESish) and assuming that your last answer excludes all man-made celestial objects.
Is the anwer the name or description of that path?
Raak] Is it the intersection of two or more things? You could at a pinch define it like that, but it wouldn't be very helpful.
Kim - Is it visible with the naked eye? Bearing in mind the earlier qualification of 'observable', yes.
Chalky - A light year - or ... a parsec? Inside the solar system? However, a modicum of *applause* for these having something in common with the answer.

INJ] Good question, but no (and your assumption is correct)
An Astronomical Unit?
The rising or setting of some astronomical body?
Kepler's laws of planetary motion?
Is it related to navigation?
Raak] An Astronomical Unit? No
Rosie] The rising or setting of some astronomical body? *applause and some cheering* Related to, yes.
Quendalon - Kepler's laws of planetary motion? No
ImNotJohn - Is it related to navigation? No
The man in the moon?
silly guess - I know :-)
The precession of the equinoxes?
Tidal patterns?
Atmospheric refraction?
Chalky]The man in the moon? No - but it would have been a good one ;)
Raak] www - the world-wide wobble? No
Phil] Tidal patterns? No
Rosie - Atmospheric refraction? No

Dawn?
OK - Is this 'man's' [the animal] perception of something that occurs in our universe [abstract] - meaning, does he need something [mineral] in order to 'see' or 'interpret' this thing [which is abstract]?
... a one-word answer will suffice ;-)
Quendalon - Dawn? *some applause* No, but getting warmer...
Chalky] OK - Is this 'man's' [the animal] perception of something that occurs in our universe [abstract] - meaning, does he need something [mineral] in order to 'see' or 'interpret' this thing [which is abstract]? ... a one-word answer will suffice ;-)

No >:)
Related to a shadow?
The Green Flash?
Twilight?
ImNotJohn] The shadow? Noes
Raak - The Green Flash? *Before Googling* No *After Googling Well, there you go - I've never seen one of those.
Rosie - Twilight? *applause* For the same reason as Quendalon - both of those are necessarily contained in the answer.

Daylight Savings Time?
(I know it's not right (named after a person?) but the audience reaction might be helpful...)
A full moon?
St Elmo's Fire?
CdM - Daylight Savings Time? (I know it's not right (named after a person?) but the audience reaction might be helpful...)*the audience shrug their shoulders* No
Dujon - A full moon? *appreciative murmurs in the audience* This is sometimes contained in the answer
Software - St Elmo's Fire? A wonderful Eno song, but not the answer

A summary?
Is it Keith Moon?
The dawn chorus?
Shut up, dickybirds, I'm trying to get to sleep.
Kim] Is it Keith Moon? No, nor Freddy Mercury either ;-)
Rosie] The dawn chorus? Oh don't deceive me, oh never leave me, how could you treat such a poor maiden - no

A summary

You’re looking for an ABSTRACT with MINERAL and ANIMAL connections. The animal connection is human. It is named after a particular person (for a given value of ‘person’). It doesn’t have a physical manifestation, though it is (arguably) observable in nature, and in that sense visible with the naked eye. It is inside the solar system. The closest guesses so far are that it is related to astronomy, related to the movement or path of some celestial object, and related to the rising or setting of some astronomical body. You might want to think about the scope of the word ‘related’. ‘Dawn’, ‘twilight’ and ‘a full moon’ also received some applause. It is also scientifically valid/viable/real/true (though some of these are more applicable than others).

It does not begin with S, or with a vowel. It is not (leaving out guesses ruled out by the above): a meteorological phenomenon; a collection of objects; an aura; anything to do with astrology; the conjunction of Venus and Mars; the ecliptic; an apogee; a transit of Venus; the Clarke orbit; the Kirkwood Gaps; the Van Allen belts; a feature of the Earth’s surface; the Trojan points; gravity; celestial co-ordinates; Oppolzer's Canon of Eclipses; a form of electro-magnetic effect; the Kuiper belt; the intersection of two or more things (well, you could describe it as that, but it wouldn’t be useful); a light-year or a parsec (though these have something in common with the answer); a name or description of the path of a celestial object; an Astronomical Unit; Kepler's laws of planetary motion; related to navigation; the man in the moon; the precession of the equinoxes; tidal patterns; atmospheric refraction; related to a shadow; the Green Flash; Daylight Savings Time; or St Elmo’s Fire.

It is much simpler than most of these. Much, much simpler. You will kick yourselves (you would probably also kick me, for sounding so smug…) Dujon’s definition of “something that changes from moment to moment even though retaining its description” is the closest so far, though my prediction that this wouldn’t be helpful hasn’t been proved wrong yet.
The horizon?
Well, no, not named after anything.
Is the "person" a mythical one?
Is it the Aurora Borealis?
Is it the effect whereby the sun or moon near the horizon appears much larger than when high in the sky?
The moon's measured size is actually less for simple geometrical reasons.
Raak - The horizon? No
Raak - Is the "person" a mythical one? *cheers and applause*YES
Kim - Is it the Aurora Borealis? No
Rosie - Harvest moon? Another great song, but no
Is the mythical figure Greco-Roman?
Would this effect be present if we had no atmosphere?
BTW what I asked about earlier is not a Harvest Moon, which is Something Completely Different and again involves geometry etc.
The tying down of the moons of Jupiter
Sorry for the delay - Bank Holiday weekend, so I slept in.

Quendalon] Is the mythical figure Greco-Roman? No
Rosie] Would this effect be present if we had no atmosphere? Assuming that we were somehow still present, yes.
BTW what I asked about earlier is not a Harvest Moon, which is Something Completely Different and again involves geometry etc. Apologies - I'm not a scientist (which may, now I come to think of it, be relevant).
CdM] The tying down of the moons of Jupiter? Hush, child oblig
Is the mythical figure Judeo-Christian?
Does this involve some kind of catastrophe?
Quendalon - Is the mythical figure Judeo-Christian? No
Rosie - Does this involve some kind of catastrophe? No
Thursday?
Yesterday?
Another song.
Raak - Thursday? *the audience rise to their feet as one person, cheering deafeningly* ALMOST!
Rosie - Yesterday? Possibly the answer, but not when you posted it.

Mate in five, at most.
Wednesday?
One down, one to go. THe winner owes much to Raak.
Friday?
I have asked some questions, so it's not a complete lurk
Rosie] Wednesday? No
One down, one to go. Yes, and as it turns out, no
The winner owes much to Raak. Absolutely!
Phil] Friday? Full of woe - still two to go
Tuesday / Tiw's Day?
Quendalon - Tuesday / Tiw's Day? YES! The baton goes back to Quendalon.
Thank you, thank you. That was a good one!

And now that it's Tuesday, let's start a new round:
ABSTRACT / ANIMAL
Fictional?
[Raak] Fictional? YES, though some would argue otherwise. *applause*
Aslan?
[Raak] The Lion Messiah? NO.
A figurehead?
Begins with P?
A character of legend?
[Rosie] Carven prow? NO.
[Tuj] Begins with P? NO.
[Kim] Character of legend? A very good question, but difficult to answer with the given phrasing. I'll have to go with a potentially misleading IT DEPENDS.
Are we looking at reigious connections?
[Tuj] Religious connections? YES, for a sufficiently broad definition of religion.
Italian?
Mentioned in The Bible or other holy book?
such as Ian Allan ABC of British Railways Steam Locomotives 1952.
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