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AVMA Take 2
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Yes, it's another round of that classic guessing game - Animal, Vegetable, Mineral, Abstract [or any combination thereof]. This effort - '03/'04 should address any queries, but then again, may just serve to confuse and baffle which some might say is the point of the game. Patience, integrity and a decent search engine may be useful ....
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(Phil) Not a monument.
(Irg) Not specific to any culture or country though often popularly associated with one particular country.
(Projoy) Not a pyramid. More utilitarian.
A building?
(Phil) NO, not a building.
This "particular country" - is it in Europe?
Are there 10 or more in the world?
(Projoy) NO, not in Europe.
(Phil) Many, many more, but it is difficult or inappropriate to enumerate them precisely.
Is the country in Africa?
Is the name of the country (or a derivative thereof) part of the answer?
(Projoy) Not in Africa.
(Irg) No, the answer contains no reference to any country.

REMINDER "The country" is nothing more than the instinctive answer most people would give to the question "Where would you find (words on the card)?" (Words on the card) can be found in many countries.

Is the country in the Americas?
(Projoy) In the Americas? YES.
Are they as high as a double-decker bus?
South America?
(Phil) High as a double-decker? I'm sure some are even higher but some aren't.
(Projoy) Not South America.
Is there eny writing on them?
s/eny/any
A bridge?
No, not a bridge - how about a freeway?
(Phil) No, there isn't eny. :-)
(Projoy) Not a freeway, (or a bridge). *audience murmurings indicate some panel members may be showing detectable atomic motion.*
Should I pay much heed to the audience's laughter earlier?
Is it something vehicles can use?
(Phil) YES. Shurely one always should. They aren't a collection of wannabe Machiavellis as far as I know. (Projoy) Used by vehicles? YES (in some cases), a literal but unhelpful truth.
Is water involved?
Does this 'thing' enclose or partly enclose an open space?
(Phil) Water involved? Very much so, Des. (© M Lawrenson.)*audience now hyperventilating*
(Dujon) Enclose an open space? YES, in a sense, but beware.
Is ice involved?
(Projoy) Ice? You're getting colder.
Is steam involved?
(Phil) Nothing to do with steam, believe it or not.:-)
A levee?
A LEVEE it is! Well done, Phil. I'm afraid that makes it your shout.
Wow! That was a bit of a shot in the dark, but it was also the result of considered deduction of all previous answers. To be honest, I'm quite chuffed with getting that. I very nearly put "dam", but that would not be popularly associated with N America.

Right, your next AVMA is

ANIMAL or ABSTRACT

Yankee?
[irach] Yankee? NO
Is it art?
[IS,P!] is it art? Hmmmm....the Animal sense is not, the abstract sense is. *a little applause and a few whispers in the audience*
[sounds like porn...] Is it deceased (e.g. pickled)
Is it something as straight-forward as a picture of an animal...?
Depiction of a human?
[IS,P!] Nothing is deceased (and filth is not involved).
[UK] Picture of an animal? NO *a couple of audience members briefly sait forward part-way through the question*
[Rosie] Depiction of a human? "NO" & "Sort of" are the two unhelpful answers
A clarification: The words on the card can be construed in two different ways. One is animal, the other is abstract.
Is the abstract meaning a figurative reference to some quality of an animal or human?
[Rosie] figurative reference to some quality? NO
Is the animal human?
Back to basics.
[Rosie] The animal from which I have elicited an "Animal" sense of the answer is indeed human. *a little cautious applause*
A specific human?
[Irouléguy] A specific human? YES - specific, but not fixed.
A position or title (e.g., Queen of Melanesia)?
[CdM] Position/title? NO
Is this person the same person for everyone?
I.e. not "my mother-in-law".
[Rosie] Is this person the same person for everyone? NO *considerable applause*
One's "better half"?
[Rosie] Better half? NO *a little chuckling*
Is the person some kind of inspiration?
Breathe in.
[Rosie] An inspiration? For the animal sense of the answer, NO. For the abstract sense, YES *appreciative applause*
A fairy godmother?
[Rosie] FG? NO
Always of one sex?
[CdM] Always one sex? NO
A little summarisation and clarification
There are two different senses or potential meanings arising from the words on the card. My answers have been very carefully worded, but I think an incorrect assumption may have been made. In particular, be careful what you infer from: The animal from which I have elicited an "Animal" sense of the answer is indeed human. See also my answer to IS,P!'s first question as well. I think that may have been overlooked.
Is the "art" that of drawing or painting?
[Rosie] Drawing or painting? NO, but there is a connection to painting that might be misleading.
An artist's model, perhaps?
Artist's model? No.
A muse?
A Muse? No.
I suspect you're all heading in the wrong direction, based on an incorrect assumption of what my careful use of the word "Animal" means.
The Hand of God?
Hand of God? NO
Does the Animal refer to a part of the human body?
{Rosie] A part of the human body? YES *the last remaining audience member fetches the rest from the bar, and they all applaud excitedly*
The heart?
Mm, only because they're all pissed.
[Rosie] Heart? NO
Is the body part involved in perception?
It seems to be just you and me. Where is everybody? Do they know something?
[Rosie] Involved in perception? NO (unless you include the sense of touch).
I think they're all too busy testing their nerdiness on MCiOS ;-)
A limb?
[Phil] I'm madbusy atm.
Does the animal part of this puzzle refer to name of a person?
Sorry if that sounds odd, but I'm trying to work out the logic of some of the earlier questions and answers.
Hang on, hang on. Don't answer that one, Phil, if you don't mind. Rephrasing my query - does the card include the name of a person?
[Projoy] Limb? NO *sharp intake of breath, and some applause*
[Dujon] A person's name on the card? NO
In that case, a guess: a hot head (or a hothead if you prefer)?
[Dujon] hothead? NO
Rosie's question of 30th August is worth paying attention to.
Is the answer a phrase or
Is the answer a phrase or saying?
Hit the wrong key earlier.
Is it an appendage?
[Rosie] A phrase or saying? NO, not really.
[Projoy] Appendage? According the dictionaries I've consulted, that's the same as a limb, in biological terms, so: NO
Your father's moustache?
Not yours but ones.
[ROsie] "Your father's moustache"? NO, but getting towards the right lines. *some applause*
A joint?
I haven't been ignoring this game; I've just been woefully short of inspiration.
[CdM] Joint? NO, not in any sense of the word.
the moving finger?
[CdM] The moving finger? NO
Is the art representational art?
[Irouléguy] Representational art? Ummmm....not really relevant as far as I can tell, as it's not drawing or painting.
Do "the words on the card" include a relative?
[Rosie] A relative? NO
Anyone for a summary?
The words on the card, which are not a phrase or saying, and do not include a relative or the name of a person, can be taken in two ways:
The first is "Animal" in its nature, and is a part of the human body, although the human is not the same person for everyone, or even the same sex. The body part is not a limb, appendage or joint. It is reasonable to assume from the audience's lack of reaction that it is not a moustache, finger or hand.
The second is "Abstract" in nature, is art, is not painting or drawing. As such it is not "representational art", but could be said to be inspirational. There is, however, a connection to painting or drawing that is not implicitly mentioned on the card.
cont.
The body part is also not a heart, and not involved in perception, other than the fact that it has nerve ending, and therefore has the sense of touch. There are also plenty of incorrect guesses that I've brushed over in order to concentrate on what's important.
Bugger
I meant "explicitly", not "implicitly".
Is music involved?
[INJ] Music involved? NO
Does this involve the dermis (corium)?
Does a smile come into it?
[Dujon] Dermis? Only in that the body part is coated in it
[Rosie] A smile? NO
Does the art involve dance?
My Left Foot?
Although I'm not sure that it's neither a limb nor an appendage.
[Irouléguy] Dance? NO
Oops
[INJ] "My Left Foot" are indeed the words on the card! Congrats, and thank God someone got it in the end. I looked up appendage and limb and, in biological terms, they are both attached directly to the body; so, reluctantly, I had to say no.
Somewhat easier I hope
Try this one: Mineral and Vegetable
[INJ] Salt and pepper?
[Raak] Crueties - NO
Edible?
[Rosie] Edible? - I think I could justify both YES and PARTLY
A drink?
See - I said this would be easier
[Inks] Drinkie-poos? - YES (applause - there would be more, but many of the audience have not yet retaken their seats after the last marathon and those that have are still arguing about 'appendage')
An alcoholic drink?
Hidden textAppedage, n. Biology. A part or organ, such as an arm, leg, tail, or fin, that is joined to the axis or trunk of a body
[Phil] The devil's brew? - YES
It depends on your dictionary - but you did make it clear when you rejected it that you'd taken it as a synonym for 'limb', so that's fair enough.
A cocktail?
[Kim] Cocktail? - YES
A Mojito?
[Iroul] Get your mojito working? - NO
Main ingredient vodka?
[Inkspot] Vodka-based? - NO
Rum based?
Tequila sunrise?
Would it be informative to pursue the "mineral" component, or is it something ordinary like "ice"?
[Inks] A rum do? - NO
[CdM] Tequila Mockingbird? - NO
[CdM] NO and YES (It's not a Margarita)
Long Island Tea?
Getting quite thirsty now
[Iroul] Long Island Tea - NO (and as a bonus, it's also not a Hairy Navel)
Is it fizzy?
Does it contain more than three ingredients, not including ice?
Does it contain more than one spirit?
Homing in
[Phil] plink-plink fizz? - YES
[CdM] more than three ingredients? - NO
[Iroul] more than one spirit? - NO
Gin and tonic?
Now to be pedantic
[Inks] Jinnan Tonnyx? - YES, those words are on the card. However there are in fact 9 words on the card including the indefinite article, so I want a little more - though I won't insist on the exact wording. (catcalls from the audience)
Gordon's Gin and Schweppes tonic with ice and lemon?
No point in being silly about it
[Phil] Well the actual answer (containing the indefinite article, remember) was A large gin and tonic with ice and lemon - It was just what was in my mind at the time!
I'll let you and Inkspot fight over who deserves that one.
Oh God No! I'm still drained rfom the last one....
I have a surfeit of both gin and tonic at my disposal, so I'll stand back and let Inkspot pick up the baton.
Gingerly picks up the baton
Thank you Phil for your generosity in giving up the chair, very kind of you sir.

Itsa MINERAL and ABSTRACT

A geographical feature?
Is the mineral metal?
[Irouléguy] A geographical feature - No
[ImNotJohn] - mineral metal - No
Is the mineral stone?
[ImNotJohn] - Is the mineral stone? No
Is the abstract bit a human concept/construction/invention..?
Is the mineral water?
An object with a figurative significance?
(Phil) Is the mineral water what? Er, sorry.
[Irouléguy] Is the abstract bit a human concept/construction/invention - Yes
[Phil] Is the mineral water - No
[Rosie]An object with a figurative significance - Sorry about this but I don't know, could you give me and example of what one is. I would prefer to hold up my hands and admit to being a idiot, rather than mislead you
(Inkspot) Yes, it is a bit elliptical. What I meant was an object used as a metaphor, eg target, ball-park, field-marshal's baton, roadmap, hurdle, dustbin, crown etc.
(Rosie)After all that - No
A manufactured object?
[Rosie] A manufactured object - YES
A latter-day gadget, i.e. not around in 1950?
Any jokes about my age will be used as landfill.
Is it made of plastic?
Rosie - A latter-day gadget, i.e. not around in 1950 - No (which means it was around in the 1950s)
CdM - Is it made of plastic - YES
Anything to do with communication?
Not much plastic around in the '50's. Bakelite maybe.
[Rosie] Anything to do with communication - No
A household object?
[Rosie] A household object......No mmmmmmm but found in the house - Yes
Anything to do with electricity?
[Rosie] Anything to do with electricity - No audience slump back into their seats
A utensil?
[Rosie] If you use bakelite does the cake have fewer calories?
A container?
(ISP) Nice, that. But bakelite, alas, is three syllables.
[I Say, Porter!] A utensil - No [Rosie] A container - No
The whatever was made originally in the very, very, very late 40s in plastic by a descriptive name, but later it adopted its present plastic formulation and present whatjamacallit.
To do with music?
[Phil] - To do with music - No
An object small enough to be carried around?
Bakelite
[Rosie] Ah! Bakelite must refer to Colin as opposed to Tom
[Rosie] An object small enough to be carried around - YES, so light a child can [I Say, Porter!]- Bakelite - No
A frisbee?
A hula-hoop?
[CdM] A frisbee? No [Rosie] A hula-hoop? No
the children in the audience start paying attention
A toy?
This include mobile phones.
[Rosie] A toy - Found in a toy shop YES
Lego?
We have a WINNER, well done Phil Lego it is, and special thanks to Rosie.
A google for "invented in 1949" and "toy" revealed the solution (although it was interesting to see what else was invented that year).
Next, I'll go for Vegetable
Wood?
[Raak] Wood? NO
Edible?
[Raak] Edible? Hmmmm.....after some checking, YES.
The fruit of some tree or plant?
Or its root, stem or flower?
[Rosie] fruit ? NO
[Kim] Root, stem or flower? The most commonly consumed part of the plant falls into one of those categories.
Related to medicine?
Leaves?
Having eaten and shot, of course.
[Dujon] Medicinal? A correct answer is YES, but that's not what the answer is known for.
[Rosie] Leaves? NO
Is this used for something other than eating and medicine?
Is it easy to grow this vegetable in this country?
[Raak] Used for something other than eating and medicine? YES *some applause*
[Rosie] grown in this country? YES *a little more applause*
Is it used for textiles?
[Raak] textiles? NO
Is this an extract of the root/stem/flower rather than the item itself (if that makes sense)?
[Dujon] Yes, it makes sense, but NO, the root/stem/flower itself is used (sometimes dried and slightly processed), not an extract.
Ah well, in that case I'll nominate a liquorice stick - not the black extract one, the real chew-a-root variety. Yum.
Vanilla?
[Dujon] Liquorice? NO
[Raak] Vanilla? NO
Used as a flavouring?
[Raak] Flavouring? YES, but not exclusively.
Hops?
popeor
Beer
[Raak] Hops? Oh yes, Lordy, YES! A matter close to my heart :-) and hearty congrats, sir.
The next is MINERAL.
Is it a mass produced item?
[Inkspot] Yes, mass-produced.
Does it occur naturally?
[Ki] Does not occur naturally. If it did, it wouldn't have to be mass produced.
Money?
[I] Not money.
Mineral mostly (or entirely) metal?
[Rosie] Yes, mostly metal.
Bigger than a telephone box?
I can think of things that occur naturally and are also mass produced. Diamonds, for example.
A tool or implement?
Does it run on electric power?
[CdM] I would say that Rakk answered the question on 'mass produced' correctly, as it means the production of large numbers or quantities standardised items, I do not see how this could apply to diamonds.
[CdM] Not bigger that a telephone box.
[Rosie] Tool? Only very broadly speaking.
[Inkspot] Can be electric.
Bigger than a toaster?
Perhaps "mass-processed" would have been more accurate. Metals occur naturally but most have to be processed in order to have any use.
[Kim] Smaller than a toaster.
Would it normally be used inside the home?
Kikm I agree that minerals can individually be processed, however telephones, fridges, cars etc are not mass processed they are mass produced.
[Inkspot] Normally used in the home.
Would most players of this game own one?
[Inkspot] I'd say that this company and this company are pretty clearly mass-producing diamonds.
[CdM] I expect most players would own one (or more).
Those companies aren't digging them out of the ground.
A toothbrush?
[Raak] No. They are producing them. En masse. Which is my point. If the answer on the card was "Diamonds", then the correct response to both "Occurring naturally?" and "Mass-produced?" would be "Yes".

How about chicken eggs as another example? Unless you take a very narrow view of mass-production, I think they would qualify. Or what about fresh water from a desalination plant?
A knife?
I read Raak's answer as meaning that this particular thing doesn't occur naturally, rather than arguing that the two categories are mutually exclusive.
Whisk?
still wondering at CdM's "mostly metal" toothbrush...
A razor?
[IS,P] Good point. I was actually meaning to ask razor before, but then somehow talked myself into toothbrush, along the way forgetting why I had dismissed that idea earlier.
A watch or clock?
[CdM] Ok.
[I] Not a knife.
[ISP] Not a whisk.
]CdM] Not a razor.
[Rosie] *riotous applause* Yes, a watch or clock.
BTW, I have not checked to see whether this is a repetition of an earlier object. If so, perhaps the time has come...
A wrist-watch?
An alarm-clock
though mine seems to be mostly plastic.
The time has come...? Noooooooooo!
[Rosie] A wrist-watch could serve as one, but...
[Irouléguy] An alarm-clock it is.
And I see that not only has that been set before, but it was set by me before. Hm...
[Raak] Set before? Hmmm, wonder why it didn't go off. Better buy a new one.
Mine didn't go off this morning, either - though that was because I didn't set it :)
Okay, our next is ABSTRACT WITH ANIMAL connections.
The Labour Party?
Totally topical.
A fictional cgaracter?
doh! fat fingers!
g/h
Rosie] Brown is the new blue? Wholly wrong (also not the answer)
Inkers] Cgarlie in the Cgocolate Factory? No
A creative activity?
Rosie] Making something? No, but this could lead to a creative activity.
Are the animal connections human?
CdM - Person to person? Yes, essentially (other animals could be involved, and it could be argued that other animals do this, but this wouldn't be a useful line to explore.)
To do with communication?
ImNotJohn - To do with communication? In a broad sense, yes, but that's not how most people would classify this.
I Say, Porter! - Mime? *shakes head, frowns*
Is this an organisation of creative people?
Rosie - Is this an organisation of creative people? No
Is it a communicative medium?
Does it involve a specific subset of people?
Kim - Is it a communicative medium? Not entirely sure what you mean by that (and a quick Google doesn't help me). I think the answer is the same as to INJ's previous question.
ImNotJohn - Does it involve a specific subset of people? A specific instance of this would involve a specific subset of people, but in general, no.

Being completely pedantic, this can also be done with/to an inanimate object, so the definition should strictly be ABSTRACT with ANIMAL and possibly VEGETABLE and/or MINERAL connections, but this is another red herring.
Anything to do with sex?
Nudge, nudge.
Rosie - Anything to do with sex? *applause* Yes (though the answer (and the thing itself) are quite SFW).
Mostly to do with sex?
Phil - Mostly to do with sex? I don't see how you could quantify it, but there are a lot of sexual connotations, yes.
A dance?
I don't recognise "SFW". *shrugs* So f------ what.
[Rosie] Suitable for work
Flirting?
(Phil) Ah! Thanks. Now, what is this thing called work?.
Would a specific instance typically involve just two people?
[Rosie] Do you do a lot of flirting with inanimate objects, then? :-) (Excluding the trombone, of course.)
(CdM) Yes - the sax section. Woo! subversive.
Rosie - A dance, or flirting? No to both (though you might well do this while engaged in either).
Sorry about the jargon - I've seen people use 'NSFW' in Another Place, so I thought it would be understood (though I used it as 'Safe for Work')
CdM - Would a specific instance typically involve just two people? *applause* Yes
Eye contact?
Rosie - 'Oo you lookin' at? No
Does this involve physical contact?
'E 'it I, so I 'it 'e.
Rosie] A touching enquiry? *loud applause* Yes
A massage?
Phil - A massage? No
Hugging?
Rosie - Hugging? Closer, but no
Kissing?
Phil] Kissing? YES - X marks the spot! Over to Phil
In that case, your next problem to solve is ABSTRACT with ANIMAL connections
Shagging?
Worth a squirt.
[Rosie] I presume you mean chasing and catching fly balls in baseball practice? Anyway, whatever you meant: Shagging? NO!
Is the animal connection human?
An action?
(Phil) Of course. Precisely that. :-)
[INJ] Human? YES
[Rosie] An action? NO
Culturally specific?
[INJ] Relating to a certain group of people? YES
Only found in a particular part of the world?
[Irouléguy] One part of the world? NO
Is the group of people related by profession?
[INJ] related by profession? NO
Is there a religious connection?
Any artistic connection?
[Irouléguy] Religious connection? YES *tumultuous applause*
[INJ] Artistic? NO
Is the answer a religion/religious group/sect?
[CdM] Religion/religious group/sect? YES *more applause*
Is it gender specific?
[Inkspot] Gender specific? NO
Scientology?
[CdM] Scientology? NO
Christian?
[Rosie] Christian? YES, but not quite the word on the card *deafening applause, followed by a few disdainful grumbles*
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