arrow_circle_left arrow_circle_up arrow_circle_right
AVMA Take 2
help
Yes, it's another round of that classic guessing game - Animal, Vegetable, Mineral, Abstract [or any combination thereof]. This effort - '03/'04 should address any queries, but then again, may just serve to confuse and baffle which some might say is the point of the game. Patience, integrity and a decent search engine may be useful ....
arrow_circle_up
Is it within a conurbation?
Conurbtained? No.
Is it a mountain?
Mountain? No.
The Trossachs?
Is it a Scottish county?
Trossachs? No.
County? No.
An area known for its natural features?
Known for natural features? No (except indirectly).
The Electric Brae?
Gleneagles?
sorry, just unsure as to the definition of 'geographical area'
Electric Brae? No.
Gleneagles? No.
Glenfiddich?
Glengarry Glen Ross? Glen Madeiros? Glen Nhoddle? Does the word 'Glen' or the word 'Loch' appear on the card?
Is it known for something produced there?
Is it a tourist attraction?
Bannockburn?
linked to a historical event?
Urban?
Lochnesslessness
Glen or Loch? No.
Production site? No.
Tourist attraction? Yes.
Bannockburn? No.
Historical? Yes. *applause*
Urban? No.
Glencoe?
Glencoe? No. *Some members of the audience, sensing that this one is almost over, start leaving their seats in order to avoid the rush to the exits*
Culloden?
Culloden Field, site of the downfall of Charles Edward Louis John Casimir Silv- well, what INJ said up there, is indeed the correct answer. *hands bloody baton to Raak*
Incidentally, you will be glad to know that Wikipedia judges the battle of Culloden to have been a "decisive British victory"
[CdM] It now says "decisive Hanoverian victory". (It wasn't me, honest.)

The next is A B S T R A C T.

Is it fictional?
anarcho-syndicalism?
One day, just you watch.
Is it art?
[INJ] Taking it in turns to act as executive officer for the week?
Three words on the card?
A human construct
(trad)
[UK] Not fictional.
[INJ] The anarcho-syndicalists will have their day...but not today.
[ISP] Not art.
[Lib] One word on the card.
[Projoy] Yes, a human construct.
Created in the 20th century?
Begins with TUJ?
A state of mind?
[UK] Created in the 20th century.
[CdM] Few things begin with TUJ, and this is not one of them.
[Chalky] Not a state of mind.
Related to the workplace?
A belief system?
[INJ] Yes, but not exclusively.
[ISP] Not a belief system.
A language of some kind?
A quality control system?
[Chalky] Not a language.
[ISP] Not quality control.
The workplace answer I would amend to "not specifically".
Can I touch it?
Is it a law?
A language?
bugger that should have been previewed. A system other than a belief system?
[Lib] Cannot be touched. There is physical stuff to this thing, but one would not talk of touching the ting itself.
[UK] Not a law.
[ISP] Not a language.
[ISP] "System" is a rather vague word, covering just about anything. Yes, it's a system, and not a belief system.
A hierarchy?
Something to do with I. T.?
To do with finance?
To do run ron ron, to do run ron?
[Chalky] Not a hierarchy.
[ISP] Yes! To do with I.T.
[Chalky] Um...yes.
[ISP] Can I get some of what you're smoking?
SAP or Oracle or the like?
[re: smoke] You need to live near the Dutch border to get the good stuff. It doesn't all reach Brussels.
[ISP] *applause* The like.
A specific, named IT product?
[INJ] Not a product.
a virus?
A generic IT feature?
i.e. one produced by many suppliers in many guises under many names e.g. database, spreadsheet.
A website?
An IT company?
[Lib] Not a virus.
[INJ] Not a generic feature.
[Lib] In a sense, yes; in a sense, no.
[Phil] *more applause* An IT company.
[Phil] Not Apple.
That's [ISP] Not Apple.
IBM ?
although, IMHO, IBM qualifies as a virus :-)
Linux?
Google?
Dell?
Not IBM, Linux, or Dell, but Google. Over to ISP.
Bugger.
Let's go for ABSTRACT and ANIMAL
I wonder if this game would work as 'reverse'... Probably not.
Fictional?
Symbolic?
Human?
[Pj] Fiction? YES
[Raak] Symbol? NO
[CdM] Human? NO
Talking?
[Raak] Talking? Yes
A cartoon character?
From a book?
Is the animal, on which the fictional version is based, normally smaller than a domestic cat?
Begins with P?
*mutter*
[Raak] Cartoon? YES
[Projoy] Book? NO
[Phil] Smaller than a cat? Depends how big the cat is.
[Tuj] Begins with a P? YES applause, and why not.
Pepe le Pew?
Phil the Cat?
[Phil] Pheeeeew? No
[Projoy] Phil the Cat? NO Never heard of him.
From a Disney animation?
[Phil the bigger-than-a-cat-landlord] Disney? NO
animated cartoon? (i.e. film cartoon rather than strip cartoon)
[Phil] Animated? Yes
Porky Pig?
[UK] Piggie? No
Pink Panther?
Pokémon?
[Lib] Pink Pussycat? NO
[Phil] Pogue Mahone? NO
Re: Cartoon - YES
A pub discussion over the weekend, and the most recent posts in here, have put doubt into my mind about the above answer. I think on reflection I'll change it to Cartoon - NO. Apologies.
Computer animation?
[UK] PC? Nope.
Is the character listed at imdb.com?
[Phil] A search on IMBD under 'character' with the words on the card will produce the expected results, so YES.
Claymation?
[UK] Not Claymation.
Stop-motion stuff (eg Ray Harryhausen)?
[UK] Stop Motion? YES * applause * Ray Harryhausen? NO
Originating on TV?
Parsley the Lion?
Paper cutouts (such as South Park)?
Pugwash (Captain)?
PC McGarry No 452?
Professor Yaffle?
[Projoy] Originating on TV? YES indeed only available on TV afaik. Parsley? NO
[CdM] Paper Cut? NO
[UK] Pugwash, NO, PC McGarry NO, but PROFESSOR YAFFLE is the name on the card, and this piece of broken wood which could be 'fixed' into a winner's baton by the mice from the mouse organ is therefore passed on. I, Say Porter! goes to sleep.
[IS,P] Ta! I believe the precedent is that all your friends now go to sleep too. *snores*
[UK] NO! Set a new one!
[IS,P] Well, as it so happens, Emily has brought something new into the shop, so let's see if the viewers at home can work out what it is. This is ABSTRACT through and through.
Is it art?
[IS,P] Arty? NO
Bigger than a toaster?
[IS,P] Toaster comparison. CANNOT ANSWER
Intriguing. Is it a human concept?
[IS,P] Human concept? YES *applause*
Is it related to the previous object?
[Raak] Woodpecker et al? NO
Connected with emotions?
(As in, "my love is bigger by far than any toaster!")
Religiously inclined?
[Projoy] Emotional response? YES
[IS,P] God-bothering? NO
An emotion itself, or a reaction to an emotion?
[IS,P] NO to both
A subjective experience?
[Projoy] I knew I shouldn't have gone for an abstract, because I'd end up getting confused when the discussion gets philosophical :-) ! As far as I can work out, the best answer I can give is YES.
Yes, but what do we *mean* by subjective?
:)
To do with conscious thought?
*beginning to feel out of his depth! *
[Projoy] Conscious thought? YES
Is it something one can do?
[Projoy] An action? Sticking strictly to what's written on the card, NO
blubble blubble blubble...
leaves Pj & UK to it
Can it be quantified in numbers?
[Projoy] Count 'em up? Technically, YES, but I feel this will not help in any way.
The ways in which Elizabeth Barrett Browning loved Robert Browning?
[Projoy] OK. You've lost me completely.
Anything to do with Science?
(Sorry, was being silly)
A sensation?
[uk] Could PJ mean "How do I love thee? Let me count the ways" - or was that Roger Rabbit...
[Projoy] Scientific? NO
[Phil] Sensational? NO
[Pj & IS,P] Thanks for illumination!
Hope you're not waiting for me. As soon as I see 'human concept - YES' I sit back and watch.
*ahem*
...

Begins with a P?
To do with language?
[Tuj] Standard opening? NO
[Chalky] Language-related? YES (to an extent)
Is it real (as opposed to explicitly fictional)?
[Projoy] Real? YES
Is it a process?
[Projoy] Process? NO
Is this universal, or culturally specific?
[Irg] Naughty! How can I answer y/n to that?! I don't wish to be a pedant, however, so I'll offer:
Universal? NO
Culturally specific? YES (probably)
Probably specific to British culture?
[Raak] UK? YES
To do with the media?
Afternoon tea?
[Raak] Media-related? NO
[irach] One lump or two? NO
A saying?
Specific to any region of the UK?
To do with sport?
[Projoy] A saying? YES (in a way)
[Raak] Specific part of UK? NO
[Irg] Sporty? NO
a cliché?
[Projoy] Cliché? YES - but don't let this mislead you.
Is there more than one word on the card (not counting articles)?
[Projoy] Multiple words? YES
Free clue: you're looking for a generalisation rather than a specific phrase.
Child-related?
[INJ] Kids' stuff? YES (but not exclusively)
Fings ain't what they used to be?
A way of speaking?
Young People Today?
Before I answer specifics, I feel that the 'free clue' appears to have done more harm than good. Remember - the words on the card are not a specific phrase. I'll try to make it even easier: it's an "example", or a general description of one item from a category.
[Irg] NO (specific phrase)
[INJ] NO (see explanation above)
[Projoy] NO (specific phrase)
Is it associated with a certain class of people?
[Raak] Classy? NO
Is it about young people in some way?
[Projoy] Yoof? NOT "ABOUT", NO...
Youth itself?
txtspk?
kthxbye ?
[Projoy] NO - it's a saying, remember
[CdM] Texting? NO
[Phil] I have no idea what that means!
A "saying" which is not "a specific phrase". See? That's why I took a back seat earlier.
[IS,P] Funnily enough, I'm regretting picking this one now - I expect to get pilloried at the end of this.
A cliché?
Do the words on the card describe some words?
[INJ] See answer to Projoy further up
[Projoy] YES *applause*
RP?
[Raak] A manner of speech? NO - the answer to Projoy's most recent question should be taken as very significant.
complaints about the weather?
(you said it was a UK-specific thing)
Do the words on the card express or imply criticism?
(Sorry, didn't look far enough back)
Is it a good thing?
[Projoy] Bit nippy? NO
[INJ] Criticism? NO (and no worries!)
[Irg] Good thing? WELL, THAT DEPENDS - subjective experience also, remember!
Do the words on the card describe a type of response?
e.g esprit de l'escalier
Hard to see how to carry on making progress with this
[INJ] Are you preparing the pillory or am I?
Are the words referred to generally spoken as part of a conversation?
Are the words referred to some sort of metaphor or simile?
[INJ] Type of response? NO
[Projoy] Part of conversation? COULD BE
[Irg] Metaphor / similie? NO, but *applause* for a question relating to 'categories'...
[IS,P] I'm putting my trainers on, and preparing to sprint. If you all want a new topic, I'll tell you what's on the card and run away very quickly.
Is it self-referential?
Give it a bit longer - somewhere, there's a killer question lurking. Anyway we haven't got the pillory set up yet.
Onomatopoeia?
[INJ] Could you clarify, please?
[IS,P] BZZZT? NO
Is it a way of speaking?
[Lurker (kimming)] Manner of speech? NO
Chav related?
[Lib] Burberry bling? NO
To do with right and wrong language use?
[Raak] Syntax, grammar, etc.? NO
Next free clue: you're all being far too serious.
Furzigig wibble epoptolith?
Is it a joke or witticism of some sort?
[Raak] I was going to say that.
British understatement?
A knock-knock joke?
Anything to do with comedy?
'Management bollocks'?
Technobabble/nerd-speak?
Thank God! INJ & Raak were close, but Thos, lurking with panache, has seized on the exact words on the card in one post. Dear all - the answer is "A knock-knock joke". Relay baton passed to Thos, whilst I sprint for the hills.
Who's there? Me? Oops.
Oh dear. That was rather a lurker victory. Hadn't really imagined that I would chance upon the solution! Perhaps someone else might consider taking on the challenge of setting the next, since I am currently locked in the cupboard under the sink on Mother-of-Mine's instructions and unable to post for a few days.
"Knock knock"
"Who's there?"
"Control Freak. Now you have to say 'Control Freak Who?'"
little old man who?
Control Freak Who?
A new one...
Right-ho, I'm back in Blighty, so here goes with a new one (and apologies if you've had this before - I only glance in on this game occasionally): This is mineral but you used to be able to get it/this/them in vegetable too...
Is it art?
Tennis racket?
Made of plastic?
Was it formerly made of wood?
Violin strings?
[ISP] Art - no, [Phil] Racket - no, [Inkspot] Plastic - yes, [Raak] Formerly wood - no, [Kim] Strings - no.
I must add that I would love to see a wooden one, as I can't imagine how it might work!
A container?
Was the vegetable rubber?
[ISP] Container - well, I suppose it could be used as one but that is not its purpose, so no. [Raak] Rubber - yes.
associated with a recreational activity?
Takes batteries?
Lib started it...
[Lib] Recreational - only in the loosest sense in that you would indeed use it to bring you some form of pleasure and I can't see a business usage, but I think I would have to say no overall. [ISP] Batteries - no - and completely no to where you seem to be headed :)
Is it a protective covering?
Used in a sport or game?
Would you normally store and use it in the kitchen?
A mackintosh?
Wellies?
Plastic that was formerly also rubber: An eraser
[Raak] Protective covering - no [ISP] sporty/gamey - no [Inkspot] Kitchen based - no (although in fairness, you could use or store it there if you wanted - but it would be most unusual) [Raak] Mackintosh - no [Projoy] Wellingtons - no [ISP] Eraser - no.
Further Clarification
Just to elaborate a bit on the response as to whether it was a recreational activity, I might have unwittingly misled you with my reply. The object is used as a recreational activity, in that you would utilise it in your spare time and for fun, but it would be unlikely to have a a long term usage, like a hobby, or a passtime, hence my answering with a no. Hope this helps...
Is it round?
[Raak] Round - yes, it is!
Is it hollow?
[Inkspot] Hollow - hmm, sometimes yes, sometimes no. I think, however, that in the traditional understanding of hollow, you would not say that it was, so once again I'd plump for overall no.
Is it commonly sold in packets of three?
Is it a disc?
[Raak] Wouldn't that be a protective covering?
[Phil] Yes, but the trend of all the other answers was too strong to ignore.
frisbee?
Lib has a lot to answer for.
Has it moving parts?
A rubber duck?
OK, not terribly round and somewhat hollow, but I'll just throw it in and see if it causes any ripples.
Hula Hoop?
Anything to do with wheels?
Woof! What a lot of lovely guesses! [Raak] Packets of three - no (but arf!) [Inkspot] Discy, as Stanley Unwin might have it, - no [ISP] Frisbee - no [Projoy] Moving parts or rubber duckiness - no* and no [ISP] Hula Hoop - no [Raak] Wheeled - no.

*BUT clarification (as always): Whilst I say there are no moving parts, one element of the object will move if the item is utilised...

Is it used in conjunction with some other thing or things?
Is it a sphere more than 50mm diameter?
Is it associated with a particular country or culture?
Used at home? Indoors?
Would it be somthing to be used "at the weekend"?
Persisting with Raak's line of enquiry :-)
Was this 'round' thing around before 1950?
[CdM] Used with other things - not specifically: It can be utilised alone without any problem though you might get more out of it if you involve other items [Inkspot] Sphere - it is not a sphere, [Irouleguy] Associated with a country/culture - no [ISP] Used indoors - usually yes, but it could be used outside, and I am sure has been, [Phil] Weekend use - this little beauty can be used at any time and is, [Chalky] Did it exist prior to 1950? - not according to my sources...
Is it likely that I own one?
Round, but neither a disk nor a sphere. Hmmmm.
Prismatic?
A whoopee cushion?
Does one inflate it?
Used in conjunction with water?
Is it toroidal? A rubber ring?
(fnar)
Tubular?
Cut to the Chase....
With a Greek Chorus chanting "More Tea, Vicar?" in the background, I am happy to declare that ImNotJohn is entirely on the button with a whoopee cushion. *Applause*. Actually, I thought Chalky was playing games with me (so to speak) when she actually picked the year that they were actually invented! *bows towards INJ and scarpers....*
Whoopee!!
A fine bit of lurking, though I say so myself.
We're off again with ABSTRACT with ANIMAL connections
BTW would it be taken as an insult to say that having met Thos made it easier to guess?
Getting it out of the way
Does it have to do with anarcho-syndicalism?
The key question
[Néa] - anarcho-syndicalism? - NO (but one of these days...)
Be it verily the construct of humanity?
[Projoy] human construct - Yea verily
[INJ] I wouldn't take it as an insult, at all. Now would you like to look through this telescope (ignore the wetness of the eyepiece)...?
Re: Human Construct - yes. OH BOLLOCKS.
[IS,P] Yes. You will note I'm still in hiding after the last one.
Is it a fictional human?
An emotional response?
[Kim] fictional human? - NO
[IS,P] Emotional response? - NO
Does it begin with a P?
Is it fictional? (trad)
An organisation?
To do with religion?
We apologise for the break in transmission
[IS,P] P.... - NO
[Projoy] fictional - YES
[Rosie] organisation - NO
[IS,P] religious - NO
Detective fiction?
[IS,P] Sam Spade etc - NO
Quiet in here, isn't it? Cartoon or animation related?
I'm getting quite lonely
[IS,P] Cartoon/Animation? - The answer has to be YES (some applause), but that wasn't my original inspiration.
BTW I think this is already quite close to a resolution.
Related to a myth or fairy tale?
[Néa] myth/fairy tale - NO
Super powers?
[IS,P] I thought you didn't do abstract human construct stuff!
[IS,P] Super-powered? - NO (a few chuckles in the audience)
A particular genre of fiction?
(meaning is The Answer a word describing a particular genre, rather than The Answer being categorisable under one).
[Projoy] a genre? - NO
A fictional story that was originally textual but which has since become an animated or cartoon representation of such?
[UK] Generally not, but INJ was rather lonely, I thought, and I wanted to give the game a shove.
Well, thank you.
[IS,P] book later animated - YES (applause)
Just to clarify my last response. I could strictly have answered NO in that the answer is not a fictional story that etc. as such, but I gave the more helpful and leading answer. As ever, you may need to make sure you aren't making any unjustified assumptions.
Idéfix?
Is The Answer the title of a book?
[CdM] Idéfix - NO
[Projoy] book title - NO (that was the point I was trying to hint at)
Is the answer on the card the name of a character? (I know Fiction-YES and Human-NO)
Getting warm
[IS,P] character's name? - YES (applause - some members of the audience start to put jackets on)
Lewis Carroll?
Bambi?
A.A. Milne?
Something From Rudyard Kipling?
And his exceedingly good pies?
[UK] Shurely "cakes"
As the sands of time draw inexorably towards a close
[IS,P] A.A. Milne - YES (further loud applause)
The other answers are therefore superfluous
As 'Pooh' has been ruled out, how about "Tigger"
Wol?
Keep Going
[IS,P] Tigger - NO (I had been thinking of 'Paddington' originally, but remembered the 'P' question.)
[Phil] - Wol - NO
Last chance for today
I'll be leaving this laptop behind in about 15 mins and not connecting again until tomorrow.
Piglet?
Wait, don't think of an elephant - is it a Heffalump?
Eeyore?
And we have a winner.It is Eeyore.
So I'll pass this baton to CdM, but I don't suppose it'll do him any good.
Rats! I thought I'd done enough to win it - indeed I was going to add Eeyore after Phil's Wol but thought others should be given a chance to chip in - at least it wasn't a lurker.
Game stalled
I think it's the phrase "And we have a winner. It is Eeyore". Everyone's waiting for Eeyore to post a new topic.
I can't post a clue. I have this terrible pain in all the diodes down my left hand side.
*runs in*
Sorry I'm late. All right, this is
ABSTRACT with ANIMAL, VEGETABLE, MINERAL and ABSTRACT connections.
I should warn you that I am traveling for most of the next 48 hours, so my connections will be intermittent.
Oh, and [IS,P] -- thanks for doing all the heavy lifting on that last one. :-)
Is it constructed humanly?
Is the answer "something"?
[Projoy] YES. The words on the card are a human construct. However in another sense the answer is YES AND NO.
[Raak] YES. The words on the card are a thing. However in another sense the answer is NO.
Any religion/spirituality connection?
Goddity? I can think of several. However, the least misleading answer is NO.
[Raak] By the way, if you meant "is the word(s) on the card 'something'?", the answer is NO.
Is it fictional?
Fictional? NO, the words on the card are not fictional. However, in another sense the answer is YES AND NO.
When you talk about "another sense", is it the same "other sense" for each question?
Is the animal connection one particular species?
Is the answer a well-known or 'set' phrase?
Is it connected with a sport or game?
Is it a filament of our imagination?
figment obviously. Pardon me.
Is another sense always the same sense? YES.
One particular species? NO.
Is the answer a well-known phrase? NO.
Is the answer a 'set' phrase? YES. *laughter*
Connected with a sport or game? NO. (But in another sense YES AND NO.)
A figment of our imagination? I think the best answer is NO.

Sorry about the absence. I was hellishly busy for the last two days. Normal service should be resumed shortly.
Connected with mathematics?
Connected with mathematics? Fundamentally I would say NO, although you are (I think) drawing the right conclusion from the earlier laughter. In another sense, of course, the answer is YES AND NO.
Is this a form of reproduction?
A form of communication?
Reproduction? NO. (or YES and NO)
Communication? NO. (or YES and NO)
Six of one and half a dozen of the other?
6 and 6? NO. (and in another sense, NO.)
Is it anything to do with sorting?
To do with sorting? To be honest, I am not exactly sure what you mean. It is not to do with sorting in the sense of, say, computer code, but it is to do with sorting in some sense, I suppose. Of course, in another sense the answer is YES AND NO.
Is the answer self-referential?
Schroedinger's cat?
Does the word "everything" appear on the card?
Is it a matter of opinion?
Self-referential? NO. *applause*
Superpussition? NO.
'Everything' on the card. *applause* As I have worded the card, NO. But it would be badly misleading to give that answer, so I will tell you that the phrase "all things" does appear on the card.
Matter of opinion. 100% of those polled say NO.
The phrase "Man is the measure of all things"?
No, it's not a well-known phrase, and it's not a matter of opinion...

How about Are there more than four words on the card?
More than four words? YES.
All things come to those who wait?
Patience is its own reward? NO. (Not a well-known phrase, remember)
(Incidentally, I'm rather surprised to find that 'superpussition' only has two googlehits. It's more original than I thought.)
Looking back, I saw that I answered "connected with a sport or a game?" as NO (as well as YES AND NO). While that is still probably the least misleading answer, it occurs to me that the answer does have some connection to a game.
The end of all things?
All things fall into one or more of the categories: Abstract, Animal, Vegetable or Mineral
End of all things? NO.
Everything AVMA? NO. *a tiny smattering of applause*
This game, of all things?
This game? NO.
The universe?
What's left after you take away life and everything? NO.
More than six words on the card?
Is it All Things That Fall Into This Category as per the famous Chinese Encyclopaedia?
Mm. Or "Those That Fall Into the Present Classification". Altho, perhaps unsurprisingly, Borges may have made it up.
More than six words? YES.
All things that fall into this category? NO. Not self-referential, remember. But you are on the right track and so, to speed things along, I will tell you that the first six words on the card are "The set of all things that".
The set of all things that have not been played in this game?
Are you still sane?
The set of all things that can be classified?
The set of all things that may be classified under the headings Animal, Vegetable, Mineral, Abstract?
Except that would be self-referential again.
The set of all things that do not exist?
[Raak] I suspect you had it with your previous question.
Tsoatt !played? NO.
Am I still sane? ARTICHOKE.
Tsoatt can be classified? NO. (see self-referential=NO)
Tsoatt can be classified as AVMA? NO. (see this comment)
Tsoatt aren't? NO.

Perhaps it's time to start asking some questions again?
Is this set finite? i.e. could you, at least in theory, count the items in it?
Are there any chihuahuas in this set?
Finite? I know enough mathematics to know I need to be careful around infinities, but I am pretty confident that this set is neither finite nor countably infinite.
Chihuahuas? *applause for the question* There almost certainly are chihuahuas in this set. However, a much more helpful observation is that a chihuahua is not in this set.
<fastshow>What are the schools like in your area?</fastshow>
Do all the chihuahuas in the set exist, or have they existed?
Chihuahuas in the set (Shurely "badgers in the sett")
Is this chihuahuas nonsense related to the famous Beyond the Fringe monologue:
... I opened the door accordingly and went in, and there was Moore seated by the fire with a basket upon his knees. ‘Moore’, I said, ‘do you have any apples in that basket?’ ‘No’, he replied, and smiled seraphically, as was his wont. I decided to try a different logical tack. ‘Moore’, I said, ‘do you then have some apples in that basket?’ ‘No’, he replied, leaving me in a logical cleft stick from which I had but one way out. ‘Moore’, I said, ‘do you then have apples in that basket?’ ‘Yes’, he replied. And from that day forth, we remained the very closest of friends.
All things that on earth do dwell?
*thinks he needs to google fastshow*
Have all chihuahuas in set existed? NO.
Badgers? For free, I will tell you that a badger is also not in the set or the sett.
All earth-dwellers? NO.
Is it connected with color?
Why avoid the obvious?
Tsoat plural?
Connected to color? I can think of several connections to color. However, color is not in this set.
Tsoatt are plural? NO. However, plurals are in this set.
TSOATT - is the next word 'can'?
Can? NO. Also, cans are not in this set.
Do the contents of the set change over time?
Are any non-plurals in this set?
I'm having fun here
Contents change over time? I suppose they do, yes, but I don't think that is very helpful. The contents of the set are not in the set, by the way.
Any non-plurals in the set? YES. Non-plurals are not in the set, though.
The set of all things beginning with P?
The set of all things that have not been mentioned in this game
We have a winner!
The set of all things that begin with P is indeed the answer. Raak is now in possession of a passed baton

This reminded of me of the time I chose 'Human Construct' as an AVMA subject -- then, as now, everyone oddly failed to ask the standard question, making the quest much more difficult than I expected.
The next one is MINERAL.
Metal?
[CdM] Doooh! Brilliant.
Ceramic?
stone?
Man-made?
[Projoy] Not metal.
[Phil] Not ceramic.
[INJ] Not stone.
[Rosie] Can be man made.
A substance?
[Phil] Not a substance. (Substance is involved, but the answer is not some substance.)
Plastic?
[Projoy] Not plastic.
Glass?
reflective?
[Néa] Not glass.
[Projoy] Yes, reflective.
liquid?
[INJ] *applause* Liquid.
Mercury?
Set of all things beginning with P
The problem with 'does it begin with a P' is that it is really Lib's question and she hasn't been around for a while, so sometimes we forget to ask it...
Meanwhile, in this game ... wonders how Mercury is not 'metal' and also how it 'can be man-made', then wonders about the varying definitions of 'man-made' and gives up.
Does it begin with a P
[Projoy] Not mercury (not a metal, remember?)
[ISP] These things can be created deliberately, and (more usually) they can arise by themselves.
[ISP] Does not begin with a P.
Is a water surface involved?
[Rosie] *cheering* A water surface is involved.
Oil on the water?
Smoke on the water? On the Waterfront? Watership Down? The Water Margin?
[ISP] None of the above.
A flood?
Mrs INJ's old school is closed because there are several hundred people sleeping in it at the moment, waiting for the water to go down enough to go home.
moving water?
[ISP] The "P" question is Tuj's, shurely?
[Projoy] Might or might not be moving, since...
INJ has it: a flood. One slowly turning Poohstick handed on.
Well, that was quick
Having wadwd out to collect the baton, may I propose:
Vegetable
Barry Took? (oblig.)
[Projoy] Yes, but see above.
A Pea?
[IS,P] The P question has been asked more often than not in recent rounds.
[IS,P] Barrington Took? - NO
[CdM] - Petit, marrowfat, snow, etc. - NO (though it did cross my mind)
Is it teh edible?
Is size important?
[Pj] re: Tuj/Lib - oops, yes, I meant Tuj. Tuj hasn't been around much either.
[PJ] comestible - YES
[IS,P] the big question - NO is probably the best answer, but I'm not sure what you're asking
Normally eaten raw?
A fictional vegetable?
Can it be grown in Britain?
[Irg] - Normally eaten raw? - NO
[IS,P]Pomegrapeberry - NO
[Rosie] Can be grown in Britain? - YES
A particular dish/recipe?
[Irg] particular dish - NO (but worth asking)
Im away from my desk until Thursday, so connectivity may have to depend on finding a friendly wifi.
Is it widely cultivated in Britain?
Does it grow on trees, you know?
[CdM] widely cultivated in Britain - Not very
[Projoy] Like spaghetti? - NO
I could have answered several questions as 'Not Applicable'
Is it typically eaten?
Grows on a bush?
[CdM] eaten - YES
[Pj] bushy - NO
Is this a group of vegetables?
Grows in the dark, dark soil?
[Chalky] group of veggies - No
[Pj] Grows in the dark? - NO
needs dark soil - NO
grows underground - NO
Have I covered every meaning of the question? As ever, the watchword is check your assumptions.
Checking assumptions:
An edible vegetable, typically eaten cooked, doesn't grow on a tree or bush or underground, cultivated (though not widely in Britain), not a group of veg.
So we are looking at vegetable as in "a plant, root, seed, or pod that is used as food"? how about 'rice'.
Nope
[IS,P] rice - NO
Several mistaken assumptions there. The main one is that it is 'a' vegetable.
I may have been unhelpful in trying to be too helpful. So, the answer on the card is not cultivated as such. Try to sort that out and you'll be closer.
Is it leafy?
is it a class of vegetables (eg, brassicas)?
[Rosie] leafy? - NO
[K(l)] a class of vegetables - NO (although Mrs INJ is far more familiar with classes of vegetables than I am, since she is a teacher.)
clarification
Had I been pedantic, instead of trying to be helpful, I could have answered NO to the questions 'Can it be grown in Britain? and 'Is it widely cultivated in Britain?'
Does it contain mind-altering substances?
[Rosie] Does it contain mind-altering substances? - Not usually, though it's not unknown for it to do so. (some laughter and applause)
Is this something that you put something else inside?
[Raak] something that you put something else inside? - NO
Can contain alcohol?
[Projoy] can contain alcohol? - depending on your definition of 'contain' (also true for Rosie's question), but YES, it can, although it normally doesn't
Is chocolate involved?
[Raak] chocolatey? - NO
A trifle, or similar?
A mere bagatelle.
Has it been processed?
[Rosie] trifling - NO
[Phil] Processed - YES (some applause)
Does it taste sweet?
[Projoy] sweet? - YES (loud applause)
Is this something you put into something else?
Sugar
?
Licorice?
... Pontefract Cakes?
Nearly there
[Raak] something you put into something else? - YES
[Chalky] Sugar? - YES - The word 'sugar' is on the card but that is not the full answer (sorry if you couldn't hear that above the applause)
[IS,P] - NO & NO (obviously)
A sugar cube?
Caster Sugar?
Scrub that... how about icing sugar, apropos MCiOS chat game as of now?
Alan Sugar?
A spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down?
[Raak] - YES, it is A Sugar Cube. One baton with the name 'Raak' down the middle handed on.
The next object is MINERAL, with ANIMAL connections. (A ripple of laughter goes through the audience at the answer is revealed on the laser display board.)
A milking machine?
[Projoy] Not a milking machine.
Some sort of fossil?
[Projoy] I'm still giggling.
A secretion?
[Dujon] Not a fossil.
[Rosie] Not a secretion.
Red Bull?
[CdM] Not Red Bull.
Manufactured?
A fake dog poo?
[CdM] Made, yes, but you wouldn't say it was manufactured.
[Phil] Ick? No.
An example of a craft?
Is it potable or edible?
[Projoy] Not a craft (in any sense of the word).
[Rosie] You can't eat it or drink it.
Is it shaped like an animal?
[Phil] Not shaped like an animal. *the audience start falling asleep*
Is the mineral metal?
[Phil] Some of the mineral is quite likely metal. *the audience snore gently*
Bigger than a toaster
*nudges audience*
If the mineral is only "quite likely" metal would it be true to say that the composition of parts of this object is mostly unknown?
[Phil] Bigger than a toaster. *the audence open one eye and close it again*
[Rosie] Not unknown to the people who made it.
Has it a function?
Is there one in the Raak household
Is it used outdoors?
[Projoy] It has a function.
[Phil] I don't have one.
[Rosie] YES and NO would both be both accurate and misleading.
Does it have *one* function?
[Projoy] One function? It depends on how you subdivide things. One more or less broad class of functions, yes.
Have these/has this been around for more than a couple of centuries?
{Projoy] 200 years old? No.
A building?
Is this 'thing' fictional'?
Is it a single unique thing?
Have these/has this been around less than a hundred years?
[ISP] *the audience awakens from its dogmatic slumber and cheers* Yes, a building.
[Dujon] Non-fictional.
[CdM] Yes, a unique thing.
[Projoy] In one sense, definitely not, in another, I expect not. (Ditto for 200 years.)
A place of worship?
[Phil] Not a place of worship.
In Britain?
Does anyone live in it?
[CdM] Not in Britain.
[Projoy] Quite possibly, but it's not usual.
In Europe?
A place of worship? Sacrifice? Macchu Picchu?
[Projoy] Yes, in Europe.
[ISP] I refer you to my last answer to Phil.
The Ice Hotel?
[INJ] *Applause* Not the Ice Hotel.
Is its nature dependent on the climate of where it is?
[Projoy] Not dependent on climate.
The European Parliament Building?
In Western Europe?
The Louvre Pyramid?
[Phil] Not the EU Parliament.
[Projoy] In Western Europe.
[Dujon] Not the Louvre Pyramid.
In Germany?
Does the building have a political purpose / significance?
[Projoy] Not in Germany.
[UK] No political purpose.
In France?
[Projoy] Yes, in France.
So, it's between 100 and 200 years old, yes?
(since you ruled out >200 and <100)
Old age
[Projoy] How do you work that out? You asked:
more than a couple of centuries? ANSWER NO
less than a hundred years? ANSWER In one sense, definitely NOT, in another, I expect NOT. (ditto for 200)

I make that = non-existent, despite its non-fictional nature.
Is the animal connection human?
Sports connections?
Sorry, I misread the 100 years question. This thing is, in one sense definitely less than 100 years old, and in another sense I don't know. Or to be more explicit, as it's been established to be a building, its present use is less than 100 years old, but I don't know when it was constructed.
[Phil] Yes, the animal connection is human.
[ISP] No connection with sports.
Ever used for a military purpose?
[Projoy] Military? Not that I know of.
Is it in Paris?
Is it a cave? note to self: Is a cave a building as such...
"Discovered" less than 100 years ago? A settlement of some kind? Archeological ruins?
[Projoy] *cheering* It is in Paris.
[ISP] Not a cave.
[ISP] Not discovered.
Having found a picture of it, I can say that the building itself is definitely less than 100 years old.
A government building?
Bibliothéque nationale de France?
+ è - é
[Projoy] Not a government building, nor the Bibliotheque.
A hint: the animal connection is not merely that it is a building that people use.
Named after somebody?
(I thought about guessing Centre Pompidou, but I would doubt that Raak would ever have thought that might have been old.)
[CdM] Er...sort of named after someone.
Marche aux Puces?
[Chalky] Not the flea market.
A museum?
A station on the Paris Metro?
Aeroport Charles de Gaulle?
[CdM] Not a museum.
[ISP] Not a station.
[ISP] Not an airport. (Close attention to the audience's reactions may suggest a less random direction to explore.)
A park or public open space?
[Raak] Re: reactions - I get that to be cheers at Builiding in Paris, and applause at the Ice Hotel.
[ISP] Not a park or open space.
(The audience murmurs approvingly at ISP's perspicacious summary.)
A hotel or guest house?
Somewhere at EuroDisney (although that's not paris per se)
[ISP] Yes, a hotel.
[ISP] Not at EuroDisney.
Hotel George V?
No, is it The Paris Hilton?
The Ritz - named after the famous cracker.
simmed by Projoy - serves me right for lurking.
[Irg] Still in with a chance - there are five Paris Hiltons not counting the slapper.
I think we can hand the baton to Projoy now; there is no need to wait for Raak.
(In other words, the George V is clearly the right answer.)
[ISP] There are indeed five Hilton hotels in Paris, but only one is...
[Projoy] ...The Paris Hilton Hotel. One nth-generation videotape passed under the counter to Projoy.
An apostrophe?
[CdM] Curses! So predictable! It is, indeed, an apostrophe. *hands over curly baton to Cd'M*
Rapture?
Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent?
I'm assuming that Projoy is going to come back and set a real one.
Ah, then I've managed to be unpredictable for once, since I'm not. Must repeat this. Over to you. :)
Very well.
ABSTRACT with ANIMAL connections (and to a lesser extent mineral and vegetable connections also)
Rapture? No.
Witt and wisdom? No.
Is the animal human?
Human? Yes, the animal connections are human.
It is an activity?
It is/Is it
Is it a contrivance of homo sapiens?
An activity? No, although I suppose you could say it is connected to an activity.
Done by folks? Yes.
Connected to a sport or game?
A childhood thing?
Connected to sport or game? No. I don't think the "activity" route will help.
Childhood thing? No.
Fictional?
Describes a relationship?
Is it a good thing?
Is money involved?
Fictional? No.
Describes a relationship? No (if I understand the question correctly)
A Good Thing? That is a matter of opinion, but I think most people would be more inclined to answer yes rather than no.
Money involved? Yes is I think the best answer. *a little applause*
Is it an occupation?
An occupation? No. *a little applause*
Connected with art?
Connected with art? No (except tangentially).
Connected with social activity?
Connected with social activity? Hmmm. I'm really not sure how to answer that -- it depends what you mean by 'social activity'. I will say that the animal connection involves a number of humans, all of whom are broadly engaged in some kind of activity.
...some kind of common activity...
Watching the Eurovision Song Contest?
Has this happened throughout human history (AFAYK)?
Eurovisioauraling? No.
Happened throughout history? Well, it is something that exists, rather than happens. And the answer is No.
I guess Raak actually asked about Eurovisiovisioing. The answer is still No.
Do people need to meet to carry out this activity?
Need to meet? In the case of the thing mentioned on the card people certainly do, but one could imagine the activity being carried out with minimal face-to-face contact. Even in the case of the thing mentioned on the card, some of the people involved probably never meet.
Do these people have a political or religious belief in common?
Politics or God? No.
Is it The Morniverse, or similar community?
Morniverse? No.
Similar community? No, but it is in some ways a community (although that isn't the word one would usually use), in that involves a group of people engaged (as I said before) in some kind of common activity.
As INJ would say, examine your assumptions.
Is this some sort of 'fan' group (e.g. Trekkies)
For most of its participants is this activity basically a hobby?
Fan group? No.
Hobby? No. *applause for the question*
Is there a language connection?
Do people get paid for doing this?
Is it an academic activity?
Language connection? Sort of, but I think that would be a red herring.
Do people get paid for doing this? *some applause* People do get paid for the activity, yes. Note that the answer on the card is not the activity, though.
Academic activity? No.
Is it something that happens online?
Does the payment for this activity come from some Government department?
Is writing involved in this activity?
Online? Not exclusively, although there is a substantial online component these days.
Government funded? No.
Writing involved? Yes. *applause*
A type of journalism?
Journalism? The activity is journalism, yes. *applause*
A newspaper?
Journalistic Licence?
Paparazzi? Paparazzi? Ya no quieres caminar...
sings... porque no tienes, porque le falta, marijuana que fumar...
Poetic Licence?
A gossip column?
The fourth estate?
TV critic?
Newspaper? No. *smattering of applause*
Journalistic License? No.
Pappa Paparra Papparra Obnoxious photojournalists? No.
Poetic License? No.
Gossip column? No.
Fourth Estate? No.
TV Critic? No.
The audience has gone very quiet.
A diary?
OK, I'm reduce to guessing at the moment, sorry.
Crossword compilers?
Diary? No.
Crossword compilers? No.
"Fourth Estate" should perhaps also have had a smattering of applause.
Perhaps a brief summary would help. This thing is abstract with animal connections. It is a non-fictional human construct that has not always existed. The animal connection involves a number of humans, all of whom are broadly engaged in the common activity of paid journalism.
Cookery columns?
A prize of some sort?
Cookery columns? No.
A prize of some sort? No.
A press conference?
A press conference? No.
Does the connection involve a particular area of expertise (such as economics, sport, fashion)?
City columnist?
Is this exclusively in the area of newspaper journalism?
Has it been around more than two hundred years?
Tony Blair's 'feral beast'?
Making some progress
Involve particular area of expertise? No (that is, not beyond what is already implied by the fact that you know that there is a connection to journalism). *some applause for the question*
City columnist? No.
Exclusively newspaper journalism? No. *applause*
More than 200 years? No (but I will give you a hint and tell you that I did have to check).
Blair the wild things are? No.
As one clarification, I want to stress that I have said that the animal connection involves people "broadly" engaged in journalism, but a pedant (not that there are any around here) might claim that the activity is not journalism per se.
Letters to the Editor?
Ignore that question - your comment "engaged in the common activity of paid journalism" just nudged the penny.
An interview?
Yours sincerely, Disgusted of Katoomba? No.
An interview? No.
The parliamentary lobby?
Obituaries?
Parliamentary Lobby? No.
Obituaries? No.
The Groucho Club?
Groucho Club? No. *the audience is asleep*

I think you need more questions.
I hope I haven't misled with the "not journalism per se". Journalism is definitely involved.
I'm about to travel to France and so may be away from the internets for 24 hours or so.
Is it a system?
Does it involve writing for a specific section of a newspaper?
Leaders/Editorials?
A system? Not sure what you mean, but I am pretty sure the answer is No.
Specific section? No.
Editorials? No.
diarising
... am disinclined to suggest 'blogging' as that is an exclusively internetty experience
Reporting?
Diarising? No.
Reporting? No. *substantial applause from their audience, although their enthusiasm should not be overrated, stemming as it does partly from relief that they finally have an excuse to do something other than sit there mutely*
Remember the answer on the card is not the activity itself.
Is the answer an adjective describing a person who may be journalistically inclined?
Current affairs?
Are the mineral and vegetable connections just ink and paper respectively?
Adjectivally descriptive answer? No. The answer is not an adjective, and does not describe someone journalistically inclined.
Electric adultery? No.
Mineral and vegetable = ink and paper? Basically, yes. You could add computers, buildings, and so on, but I don't think these connections tell you anything you don't already know.
so-called "Fleet Street"?
Fast Track? No.
Sub-editors?
Subeditors? No.
International/'foreign' coverage?
Reviews of some kind?
Small earthquake in Chile? No. *smattering of applause*
Reviews? No.
Travel writing?
Travel writing? No. You all need to think bigger. Also, there has only been one guess that has even approximated the kind of entity that is on the card.
The Murdoch Media Juggernaut?
News?
Rupert the Bear? No. *audience applause that, by means of subtly shifting cadences, conveys the message that they are applauding not so much for the name Murdoch as for the fact that there have now been two guesses that approximate the entity on the card*
News? OK, you don't need to think quite that big. Nevertheless *applause, tinged with relief that we may finally be getting somewhere*
Is it a specific organisation?
Specific organisation? Yes. *applause*
Reuters?
The Rothermere press?
Reuters? No. *sustained applause*
Rothermere Press? No. *sustained silence*
A specific news agency?
A specific news agency? Yes.
AP?
AHN?
Really, what else could it have been?
A P is indeed what is on the card. This just in from our correspondent: a baton has been delivered to East Anglia.
A N I M A L
H U M A N?
[CdM] Not human.
Mammalian?
[Projoy] Yes, mammalian.
A specific species?
Topical?
[Projoy] To be very nitpickingly precise, not a specific species.
[Rosie] Not topical.
Feline?
[[I] Not a cat.
A specific, individual animal?
[CdM] Not an individual.
Does it live in the water?
[I] Not alive.
[I] Not in water.
An extinct creature?
[CdM] Not extinct.
Animal byproduct?
[Inkspot] Yes, an animal product.
Food for humans?
[Rosie] Yum? Bleah.
A stuffed animal (taxidermist wise)?
Is it from the male and female?
[Dujon] (applause)Taxidermy is involved.
[Inkspot] Could be from either.
Is the answer of the form "an <animal><part of animal>" (e.g., a moose head)?
[CdM] *applause*! That is included in the answer.
A stuffed moose head?
An elephant's foot umbrella stand?
[Projoy] Not a moose.
[CdM] *wild cheering* The very words on the card! One Victorian sword-stick passed on.
eeeek! Sorry. My internets access is intermittent right now. Let me set an easy one.
MINERAL with ANIMAL connections
*audience laughter, with a second wave of laughter as the first one is dying down*
Is the mineral man-made?
Is the mineral physically connected to the animal?
Something to do with sex?
A parrot-handle umbrella?
A cast-iron elephant's foot umbrella stand?
Man-made? Could be. *audience laughter*
Physically connected to the animal? Well, yes. But then again, no. *audience laughter*
To do with sex? Well, er, it could be, though it is probably fair to say, not normally. *audience laughter* Not that I am passing any judgment on what is normal, you understand. *audience laughter*
Parrot-handle umbrella? No.
Cast-iron efus? No.
Is it bigger than a shoe box?
Bigger than a shoebox? The question is not really meaningful.
I mean, *chastity* belt?
Very strange, I posted with a misprint, hence the correction, which seems to have overwritten the original.
Probably just clicked Preview by mistake.
Chestity belt? Charity belt? Elastity belt? No.
Is this a substance, or substances, as opposed to an object?
Substance? Yes. *applause*
My God, it's not a turd, is it?
Looks like ... smells like ... tastes like ... thank god I didn't step in it...? No, but *sustained audience applause and laughter*
You're not taking the piss, are you?
Bogies?
And I don't mean those four-wheel assemblages you find under railway carriages.
Does it begin with...?
Urine is the word on the card. One Andres Serrano representation of a baton returned to Raak.
Let me try to raise the tone with this M I N E R A L and A B S T R A C T.
Ancient Greek sculpture?
A work of art?
Bigger than a toaster?
[Raak] Shurely your winning question last round should have been "Does it begin with pee"
[I] The audience applauds, but only for your good taste. Not ancient Greek sculpture.
[R] In a sense, yes.
[ISP] Bigger than a toaster.
On reflection, I think the ABSTRACT is inaccurate, and this should be classified simply as MINERAL.
A natural geographical feature?
[Inkspot] Not natural.
A building?
A bridge?
[Rosie] Yes! A building.
[I] Not a bridge.
In Europe?
[Néa] In Europe.
Built after 1900?
[I] Not built after 1900.
In Britain?
[I] Yes, in Britain.
Open to the public?
[Rosie] Partly open to the public.
Prehistoric?
[Néa] Not prehistoric.
A religious place?
In narrow sense, excludes banks, sports grounds,....
The Houses of Parliament?
[Inkspot] Not a religious place.
[Irouléguy] Not the H of P.
In England?
[Néa] In England.
St Pancras Station?
Would this edifice be a tourist attraction?
[Rosie] Not St. Pancras.
[Dujon] Quite possibly, I'm not sure.
Is it a residence?
In southern England?
Using the 'south of a line drawn between the Wash and the Severn' definition.
[Inkspot] Not a residence.
[Irouléguy] In southern England.
By the seaside?
[ISP] Not by the seaside.
In London?
Built before 1800?
[Inkspot] Built before 1800.
Do you have to pay to go in?
[Rosie] (laughter from the audience) Quite the reverse.
(I note an assumption of present tense that might usefully be questioned.)
Newgate debtors' prison?
[I] Not Newgate.
Is it still standing?
[Inkspot] Partly.
A prison?
Ahem - my London question hasn't had an answer yet.
A fortification?
[Irouéguy] Sorry -- it is/was in London. Not a prison.
[Inkspot] Not a fortification.
Have missing "l".
Built before 1700?
London Bridge?
All stations to Tunbridge Wells West. Join the front coach for Hurst Green Halt.
Built by the Romans?
[I] Not built before 1700.
[R] Not London Bridge.
[I] Not built by the Romans.
Marble Arch?
Is any of it still visible?
[Projoy] Not Marble Arch
[Rosie] Some of it is still visible.
North of the river?
Is it underground?
[I] North of the river. [P] Overground.
Did it commemorate an event?
[I] Not commemorative.
The British Museum?
The British Museum? Pah! Who is this man, he is an insult to me. "It's primary purpose is of course functional". What a load of WILLIES! It's primary purpose is of course sexual. It is a massive assertion of the phallique power of London. These huge columns plunging into Mother Earth!
Highgate cemetary?
Would it have had an address?
i.e. is it a building on a street, or is it in another context?
Is there a health connection?
[ISP on something] Not the BM.
[ISP] Not Highgate.
[Projoy] Yes, a building on a street.
[I] No health connection.
Time for a summary: A building in London, north of the river, built between 1700 and 1800, part of which is still standing. It is (or was) partly open to the public, overground, and on a street. It is not: a religious place, a bridge, the Houses of Parliament, a prison, a fortification, St Pancras Station, Marble Arch, the British Museum or Highgate Cemetery. Nor does it have any health connection. The question “Do you have to pay to go in” produced laughter from the audience and the response “Quite the reverse”.
The bank of England?
Was it the residence of a well-known person?
Did it produce something for sale?
add "Not a residence" to summary.
[I] (applause!) Yes! These very words appear on the card! But that is not the whole answer.
[R] I don't know if any of the Bank of England's officials ever had their residence there.
[I] Not exactly.
Google may be your friend at this pont.
The Temple of Mithras?
(Google is indeed a friend)
[Projoy] Not the Temple of Mithras (which was built too long ago).
Sir John Soane's Bank of England?
[Projoy] The very words on the card. Over to you.
Hm. I should be doing other work, but here's an ABSTRACT .
Sabbatarianism?
[Ig] The very words on the - actually, NO. :)
Human construct?
Is it art?
Related to your work?
[Kim] Among the mighty works of man? YES
[ISP] Is it art? Strictly, NO. *applause*
[Raak] Clever question! Related to my work, YES. *applause*
An artistic technique?
To do with museums?
(Scratch that last, I'm out of date.) Something to do with the theatre?
[Ig] Artistic technique? NOT EXACTLY *small ripple*
[Raak] (I do occasionally still do something in a museum, but not often) To do with theatre? NOT BY DEFINITION (but can be)
(i.e. not intrinsically to do with theatre)
To do with computers?
Computer-related? NO. (again, not intrinsically but could be)
To do with music?
[Raak] Music? YES *muchos applausos*
A particular musical form or format (ie overture, song, duet)?
[Ig] A form or format? NO
A degree in musical composition?
Faculty + Staff? NO
Furry fandom?
Abything to do with technique?
Nearly got it right just then.
[Phil] Furry music? NO
[Rosie] Technique? NO
Begins with P?
..and no, I'm not Lib...
Is this specific to a particular type of music (ie rock, classical, folk)?
[Tuj] Begins with P? PNO
[Ig] Particular type of music? NO, in the sense you give for type(however, it's not universal either).
Is it a specifically musical term, eg a cadenza
[Rosie] YES, tho perhaps in a subtly different way to your e.g.
Is there more than one word on the card?
[Phil] Multiple words? YES
Are any of the words on card in Italian?
Is it to do with electronic music?
[Rosie] Eye, Tie? NO
[Ig] Electronic music? NO (not intrinsically, but could be)
A time signature?
[Rosie] Time signature? NO *some applause*
Musical notation?
[Phil] Notation? NO, tho it does manifest in same.
An accelerando?
[Raak] A fastening? NO
A clef, bass or treble?
Not tenor or alto for they are manifestations of the Marquis de Sade.
[Rosie] Clef? NO *but an eruption of enthusiastic applause from the erudite audience*
Key signature?
[Rosie] YES, it is one key signature... *applause*
B flat?
Slimmer's instruction to stomach? NO
C major?
What Lamont failed to do on Black Wednesday? NO
A Flat Minor?
[Phil] A child under a bulldozer? NO, but soooo close!
A Minor?
[Phil] Not A Minor nor a minor. Getting colder.
A flat major
Surely?
G flat (major)
(Phil) Ab minor? That's bad spelling; it's G# minor. I dunno. You of all people. I suspect your Ab is correct, you bastard. :-)
[Rosie] A flat minor is 7 flats isn't it? And also a very old punchline.
[Phil] Yes, you have it with One Squashed Bandleader. *hands over neat military cork-tipped conductor's baton*
Many thanks - glad to get one again, at last :)

Your next AVMA for consideration and interrogation is ABSTRACT

All together now... a human construct?
A bluesy minor third?
[Projoy] Human construct, dagnammit? YES!
[Rosie] 33% of a depressed child? NO
An idea of the twentieth century?
Related to your work?
[Projoy] 20th century origin? NO
[Irouléguy] Pub-related? NO
Anything to do with music?
Specific to a particular culture?
[Rosie] Musical? NO
[ILG] Specific to a particular culture
YES
An idea from before 1000CE?
[Projoy] <1000AD? NO
Specific to a European culture?
[ILG] A European culture? YES
Specific to British culture?
Converging on . . . . .
[Rosie] British Culture? NO
From before 1500CE?
Specific to a western European culture?
[Projoy] <1500? NO
[Irouléguy] W. Europe? YES
Anything to do with religion?
[Irouléguy] To do with religion? *sharp intake of breath from some audience members* After some thought, officially, NO.
Anarcho-syndicalism?
Atlast!
From before 1800?
[INJ] Anarcho-wotsit? Well, blow me down - NO
[Projoy] <1800? NO *audience anxiously awaits Projoy's next era query*
A celebration?
From before 1850?
May as well mine this seam out.
[Rosie] celebration? NO
[Projoy] <1850? NO *audience drums its collective fingers*
A Mediterranean country's culture?
[INJ] Med Country? NO
[Projoy] Just to make sure we're on the same wavelength, it did not come into being (inasmuch as an abstract entity can) in any of the timespans you've suggested.
From Germany?
[Irouléguy] From Germany? NO *Audience dozes quietly*
So it did come into being between 1850-1900?
Belgian or Dutch?
[Projoy] Originating 'twixt 1850 and 1900? YES (21st century was the only alternative left, I think)
[IS,P!] Belgian/Dutch? NO
A sport?
Irish?
Specific to a Nordic Culture?
[Rosie] A sport? My first thought was "yes", but it's actually "NO" *sudden re-awakening of audience followed by huge applause despite the "no"*
[Irouléguy] Irish? YES *yet more applause*
[Projoy] Nordic? see above.
A political idea?
Scrub that, not easily mistaken for a sport (except by politics junkies like me). A game?
[Projoy] A game? NO. Although, to clarify a little, games and sport are involved. *appreciative nods and applause from the audience*
To do with children in particular?
St Patrick's Day?
The Gaelic Athletic association?
Scrub previous - it's a celebration.
A particular event or date?
or the Celtic Revival (aka Irish Renaissance)?
Now we're getting somewhere...
[Projoy] Children in particular? NO
[Rosie] The GAA? Not the answer on the card, but you're getting warm *enthusiastic applause as the audience awaits the dénouement with eager anticipation*
[Irouléguy] a date, event or the celtic revival? NONE of those
The GAA rules?
[Irouléguy] The GAA Rules? NO, but they are associated with the answer on the card. *hushed anticipation*
The All-Ireland Championships?
The Rules of Gaelic Football?
[Irouléguy] The All-Ireland Championships? Two words missing from what's on the card (and if you get the second of them I'll be satisfied). *mutters of "harsh, but fair" from the Irish members of the audience*
[Rosie] See Irouléguy's question.
The All-Ireland Gaelic Football Championships?
or the All-Ireland Senior Football Championships, even?
Google is indeed our friend
[Irouléguy] ARGH! No, not quite - SO close, yet I can't give it to you on either post.
The All-Ireland Junior Football Championships?
[Projoy] A-I JFC? NO, you changed the wrong word - sorry.
The All-Ireland Senior Hurling Champuionships?
Gotta be, so it has.
[Rosie] Hoorah! Yes, indeed, 'tis the hurling. Here, take this camán and sliotar, and be off with you :-)
(Phil) Er, what do I do with them? Don't answer that.

Right, earwig-o with ABSTRACT and MINERAL or ABSTRACT..

Nothing whatsoever to do with steam engines.

Is it to do with the weather?
A ton of bricks?
Related to 'the arts'?
(Projoy) Yes, it's weather-related.
(Raak) Not a ton of bricks.
(Dujon) Nothing to do with the arts.
Is the mineral water?
A measurement?
(Raak) Water? Most of it is.
(Phil) No, not a measurement.
Noah's Flood?
Connected with climate change?
(Raak) Notable historic widespread intense precipitation event? No.
(Projoy) Nothing to do with climate change, manmade or otherwise.
Perhaps something to do with short term weather forecasting?
(Dujon) Not seaweed, hair, thunder-bottles, Positive Vorticity Advection or any other attempt at divination.
Fictional?
A particular form of precipitation?
(Raak) No, it's real (both meanings)
(Irouléguy) Not a hydrometeor, as they call it in the learned journals.
Is it a type of weather?
By the way, you would hit the sliotar with the camán.
Is the water, ice?
(Phil) Not strictly a type of weather, but in effect yes. (Irish implements) Ah, it's becoming a little clearer. Neither would fit where the sun don't shine, then.
(Inkspot) Ice? Most certainly not. *a few chuckles from the audience*
Normally linked with a particular part of the world?
Scotch Mist?
Scotch Mist?
oops - forgot the protocol.
Indian Summer?
(Irg) YES *audience applause*
(Phil) Not reduced visibility due to half a bottle of GlenPissartist
(ISP) Not an Indian Summer.
A monsoon?
A hurricane?
(Raak) Not the monsoon.
(Irg) A hurricane? Not a bit of it. *cruel laughter by knowledgable audience*

This is not a technical term but possibly used to be.

A named wind?
(Dujon) Not a named wind. *further audience chuckles*
The doldrums?
The El Niño/Southern Oscillation effect?
A tsunami?
(Irg) Not ENSO (It's a technical term)
(Raak) Not a tsunami.
but:
We have winner! It's the totally becalmed CdM. Well done, sir. (Local knowledge?). Over to you.
I think we ought to draw a line under this and move on, as they say.
I certainly drifted into a lurker's victory there.
This is ABSTRACT with very strong ANIMAL AND VEGETABLE connections, mainly MINERAL but also ANIMAL and VEGETABLE, and ANIMAL, VEGETABLE, MINERAL AND ABSTRACT. Also perhaps ABSTRACT.
Life, The Universe and Everything?
Indeed! *marks baton "Return to Sender"*
Ooh. Is that the first genuine hole in one in this game?
(CdM) Sorry about that. Sometimes it's worth a pop from the halfway line. :-)

Now, this time it's MINERAL

Rain?
(Irg) - Not rain. *some thoughtful chuckles from audience*
Naturally occurring?
[Rosie] No apology necessary! An excellent piece of guessing. When I set it I thought there was some chance that it would just click for someone.
[Projoy] What, my "apostrophe" wasn't a genuine hole in one? :-)
Condensation of some description?
(CdM) Naturally occurring? Unfortunately not.
The lavish definitions seemed to indicate only one thing. :-)
(Dujon) Not a form of condensation.

Switiching off at 3.45 BST, 2.45 GMT.

Made of plastic?
(Inkspot) Er, not plastic. *huge peals of laughter from audience*

Clarification: This (or these) can occur naturally, but it is rare, and the words on the card are always thought of as not a part of nature.

Solid, when at home?
(Projoy) Yes, it's solid.
Is it sold?
(Projoy) You can't buy one of these. *audience split their sides. Paramedics called.*
Man made?
An artificial body part?
(Inkspot) Manmade? YES.
(Raak) Not an artificial body part.
Larger than a double-decker bus?
(Irg) YES, larger than a double-decker bus, though not equally in all directions.
Made of stone?
(Projoy) Made of stone? YES, but only partly. *audience now becoming animated*
Is there a metal part?
(Phil) Metal? There may be a very small proportion, but essentially NO.
Made of concrete?
(Inkspot) Concrete? YES, but only partly.
A monument?
Are these specific to a particular culture or country?
A pyramid?
(Phil) Not a monument.
(Irg) Not specific to any culture or country though often popularly associated with one particular country.
(Projoy) Not a pyramid. More utilitarian.
A building?
(Phil) NO, not a building.
This "particular country" - is it in Europe?
Are there 10 or more in the world?
(Projoy) NO, not in Europe.
(Phil) Many, many more, but it is difficult or inappropriate to enumerate them precisely.
Is the country in Africa?
Is the name of the country (or a derivative thereof) part of the answer?
(Projoy) Not in Africa.
(Irg) No, the answer contains no reference to any country.

REMINDER "The country" is nothing more than the instinctive answer most people would give to the question "Where would you find (words on the card)?" (Words on the card) can be found in many countries.

Is the country in the Americas?
(Projoy) In the Americas? YES.
Are they as high as a double-decker bus?
South America?
(Phil) High as a double-decker? I'm sure some are even higher but some aren't.
(Projoy) Not South America.
Is there eny writing on them?
s/eny/any
A bridge?
No, not a bridge - how about a freeway?
(Phil) No, there isn't eny. :-)
(Projoy) Not a freeway, (or a bridge). *audience murmurings indicate some panel members may be showing detectable atomic motion.*
Should I pay much heed to the audience's laughter earlier?
Is it something vehicles can use?
(Phil) YES. Shurely one always should. They aren't a collection of wannabe Machiavellis as far as I know. (Projoy) Used by vehicles? YES (in some cases), a literal but unhelpful truth.
Is water involved?
Does this 'thing' enclose or partly enclose an open space?
(Phil) Water involved? Very much so, Des. (© M Lawrenson.)*audience now hyperventilating*
(Dujon) Enclose an open space? YES, in a sense, but beware.
Is ice involved?
(Projoy) Ice? You're getting colder.
Is steam involved?
(Phil) Nothing to do with steam, believe it or not.:-)
A levee?
A LEVEE it is! Well done, Phil. I'm afraid that makes it your shout.
Wow! That was a bit of a shot in the dark, but it was also the result of considered deduction of all previous answers. To be honest, I'm quite chuffed with getting that. I very nearly put "dam", but that would not be popularly associated with N America.

Right, your next AVMA is

ANIMAL or ABSTRACT

Yankee?
[irach] Yankee? NO
Is it art?
[IS,P!] is it art? Hmmmm....the Animal sense is not, the abstract sense is. *a little applause and a few whispers in the audience*
[sounds like porn...] Is it deceased (e.g. pickled)
Is it something as straight-forward as a picture of an animal...?
Depiction of a human?
[IS,P!] Nothing is deceased (and filth is not involved).
[UK] Picture of an animal? NO *a couple of audience members briefly sait forward part-way through the question*
[Rosie] Depiction of a human? "NO" & "Sort of" are the two unhelpful answers
A clarification: The words on the card can be construed in two different ways. One is animal, the other is abstract.
Is the abstract meaning a figurative reference to some quality of an animal or human?
[Rosie] figurative reference to some quality? NO
Is the animal human?
Back to basics.
[Rosie] The animal from which I have elicited an "Animal" sense of the answer is indeed human. *a little cautious applause*
A specific human?
[Irouléguy] A specific human? YES - specific, but not fixed.
A position or title (e.g., Queen of Melanesia)?
[CdM] Position/title? NO
Is this person the same person for everyone?
I.e. not "my mother-in-law".
[Rosie] Is this person the same person for everyone? NO *considerable applause*
One's "better half"?
[Rosie] Better half? NO *a little chuckling*
Is the person some kind of inspiration?
Breathe in.
[Rosie] An inspiration? For the animal sense of the answer, NO. For the abstract sense, YES *appreciative applause*
A fairy godmother?
[Rosie] FG? NO
Always of one sex?
[CdM] Always one sex? NO
A little summarisation and clarification
There are two different senses or potential meanings arising from the words on the card. My answers have been very carefully worded, but I think an incorrect assumption may have been made. In particular, be careful what you infer from: The animal from which I have elicited an "Animal" sense of the answer is indeed human. See also my answer to IS,P!'s first question as well. I think that may have been overlooked.
Is the "art" that of drawing or painting?
[Rosie] Drawing or painting? NO, but there is a connection to painting that might be misleading.
An artist's model, perhaps?
Artist's model? No.
A muse?
A Muse? No.
I suspect you're all heading in the wrong direction, based on an incorrect assumption of what my careful use of the word "Animal" means.
The Hand of God?
Hand of God? NO
Does the Animal refer to a part of the human body?
{Rosie] A part of the human body? YES *the last remaining audience member fetches the rest from the bar, and they all applaud excitedly*
The heart?
Mm, only because they're all pissed.
[Rosie] Heart? NO
Is the body part involved in perception?
It seems to be just you and me. Where is everybody? Do they know something?
[Rosie] Involved in perception? NO (unless you include the sense of touch).
I think they're all too busy testing their nerdiness on MCiOS ;-)
A limb?
[Phil] I'm madbusy atm.
Does the animal part of this puzzle refer to name of a person?
Sorry if that sounds odd, but I'm trying to work out the logic of some of the earlier questions and answers.
Hang on, hang on. Don't answer that one, Phil, if you don't mind. Rephrasing my query - does the card include the name of a person?
[Projoy] Limb? NO *sharp intake of breath, and some applause*
[Dujon] A person's name on the card? NO
In that case, a guess: a hot head (or a hothead if you prefer)?
[Dujon] hothead? NO
Rosie's question of 30th August is worth paying attention to.
Is the answer a phrase or
Is the answer a phrase or saying?
Hit the wrong key earlier.
Is it an appendage?
[Rosie] A phrase or saying? NO, not really.
[Projoy] Appendage? According the dictionaries I've consulted, that's the same as a limb, in biological terms, so: NO
Your father's moustache?
Not yours but ones.
[ROsie] "Your father's moustache"? NO, but getting towards the right lines. *some applause*
A joint?
I haven't been ignoring this game; I've just been woefully short of inspiration.
[CdM] Joint? NO, not in any sense of the word.
the moving finger?
[CdM] The moving finger? NO
Is the art representational art?
[Irouléguy] Representational art? Ummmm....not really relevant as far as I can tell, as it's not drawing or painting.
Do "the words on the card" include a relative?
[Rosie] A relative? NO
Anyone for a summary?
The words on the card, which are not a phrase or saying, and do not include a relative or the name of a person, can be taken in two ways:
The first is "Animal" in its nature, and is a part of the human body, although the human is not the same person for everyone, or even the same sex. The body part is not a limb, appendage or joint. It is reasonable to assume from the audience's lack of reaction that it is not a moustache, finger or hand.
The second is "Abstract" in nature, is art, is not painting or drawing. As such it is not "representational art", but could be said to be inspirational. There is, however, a connection to painting or drawing that is not implicitly mentioned on the card.
cont.
The body part is also not a heart, and not involved in perception, other than the fact that it has nerve ending, and therefore has the sense of touch. There are also plenty of incorrect guesses that I've brushed over in order to concentrate on what's important.
Bugger
I meant "explicitly", not "implicitly".
Is music involved?
[INJ] Music involved? NO
Does this involve the dermis (corium)?
Does a smile come into it?
[Dujon] Dermis? Only in that the body part is coated in it
[Rosie] A smile? NO
Does the art involve dance?
My Left Foot?
Although I'm not sure that it's neither a limb nor an appendage.
[Irouléguy] Dance? NO
Oops
[INJ] "My Left Foot" are indeed the words on the card! Congrats, and thank God someone got it in the end. I looked up appendage and limb and, in biological terms, they are both attached directly to the body; so, reluctantly, I had to say no.
Somewhat easier I hope
Try this one: Mineral and Vegetable
[INJ] Salt and pepper?
[Raak] Crueties - NO
Edible?
[Rosie] Edible? - I think I could justify both YES and PARTLY
A drink?
See - I said this would be easier
[Inks] Drinkie-poos? - YES (applause - there would be more, but many of the audience have not yet retaken their seats after the last marathon and those that have are still arguing about 'appendage')
An alcoholic drink?
Hidden textAppedage, n. Biology. A part or organ, such as an arm, leg, tail, or fin, that is joined to the axis or trunk of a body
[Phil] The devil's brew? - YES
It depends on your dictionary - but you did make it clear when you rejected it that you'd taken it as a synonym for 'limb', so that's fair enough.
A cocktail?
[Kim] Cocktail? - YES
A Mojito?
[Iroul] Get your mojito working? - NO
Main ingredient vodka?
[Inkspot] Vodka-based? - NO
Rum based?
Tequila sunrise?
Would it be informative to pursue the "mineral" component, or is it something ordinary like "ice"?
[Inks] A rum do? - NO
[CdM] Tequila Mockingbird? - NO
[CdM] NO and YES (It's not a Margarita)
Long Island Tea?
Getting quite thirsty now
[Iroul] Long Island Tea - NO (and as a bonus, it's also not a Hairy Navel)
Is it fizzy?
Does it contain more than three ingredients, not including ice?
Does it contain more than one spirit?
Homing in
[Phil] plink-plink fizz? - YES
[CdM] more than three ingredients? - NO
[Iroul] more than one spirit? - NO
Gin and tonic?
Now to be pedantic
[Inks] Jinnan Tonnyx? - YES, those words are on the card. However there are in fact 9 words on the card including the indefinite article, so I want a little more - though I won't insist on the exact wording. (catcalls from the audience)
Gordon's Gin and Schweppes tonic with ice and lemon?
No point in being silly about it
[Phil] Well the actual answer (containing the indefinite article, remember) was A large gin and tonic with ice and lemon - It was just what was in my mind at the time!
I'll let you and Inkspot fight over who deserves that one.
Oh God No! I'm still drained rfom the last one....
I have a surfeit of both gin and tonic at my disposal, so I'll stand back and let Inkspot pick up the baton.
Gingerly picks up the baton
Thank you Phil for your generosity in giving up the chair, very kind of you sir.

Itsa MINERAL and ABSTRACT

A geographical feature?
Is the mineral metal?
[Irouléguy] A geographical feature - No
[ImNotJohn] - mineral metal - No
Is the mineral stone?
[ImNotJohn] - Is the mineral stone? No
Is the abstract bit a human concept/construction/invention..?
Is the mineral water?
An object with a figurative significance?
(Phil) Is the mineral water what? Er, sorry.
[Irouléguy] Is the abstract bit a human concept/construction/invention - Yes
[Phil] Is the mineral water - No
[Rosie]An object with a figurative significance - Sorry about this but I don't know, could you give me and example of what one is. I would prefer to hold up my hands and admit to being a idiot, rather than mislead you
(Inkspot) Yes, it is a bit elliptical. What I meant was an object used as a metaphor, eg target, ball-park, field-marshal's baton, roadmap, hurdle, dustbin, crown etc.
(Rosie)After all that - No
A manufactured object?
[Rosie] A manufactured object - YES
A latter-day gadget, i.e. not around in 1950?
Any jokes about my age will be used as landfill.
Is it made of plastic?
Rosie - A latter-day gadget, i.e. not around in 1950 - No (which means it was around in the 1950s)
CdM - Is it made of plastic - YES
Anything to do with communication?
Not much plastic around in the '50's. Bakelite maybe.
[Rosie] Anything to do with communication - No
A household object?
[Rosie] A household object......No mmmmmmm but found in the house - Yes
Anything to do with electricity?
[Rosie] Anything to do with electricity - No audience slump back into their seats
A utensil?
[Rosie] If you use bakelite does the cake have fewer calories?
A container?
(ISP) Nice, that. But bakelite, alas, is three syllables.
[I Say, Porter!] A utensil - No [Rosie] A container - No
The whatever was made originally in the very, very, very late 40s in plastic by a descriptive name, but later it adopted its present plastic formulation and present whatjamacallit.
To do with music?
[Phil] - To do with music - No
An object small enough to be carried around?
Bakelite
[Rosie] Ah! Bakelite must refer to Colin as opposed to Tom
[Rosie] An object small enough to be carried around - YES, so light a child can [I Say, Porter!]- Bakelite - No
A frisbee?
A hula-hoop?
[CdM] A frisbee? No [Rosie] A hula-hoop? No
the children in the audience start paying attention
A toy?
This include mobile phones.
[Rosie] A toy - Found in a toy shop YES
Lego?
We have a WINNER, well done Phil Lego it is, and special thanks to Rosie.
A google for "invented in 1949" and "toy" revealed the solution (although it was interesting to see what else was invented that year).
Next, I'll go for Vegetable
Wood?
[Raak] Wood? NO
Edible?
[Raak] Edible? Hmmmm.....after some checking, YES.
The fruit of some tree or plant?
Or its root, stem or flower?
[Rosie] fruit ? NO
[Kim] Root, stem or flower? The most commonly consumed part of the plant falls into one of those categories.
Related to medicine?
Leaves?
Having eaten and shot, of course.
[Dujon] Medicinal? A correct answer is YES, but that's not what the answer is known for.
[Rosie] Leaves? NO
Is this used for something other than eating and medicine?
Is it easy to grow this vegetable in this country?
[Raak] Used for something other than eating and medicine? YES *some applause*
[Rosie] grown in this country? YES *a little more applause*
Is it used for textiles?
[Raak] textiles? NO
Is this an extract of the root/stem/flower rather than the item itself (if that makes sense)?
[Dujon] Yes, it makes sense, but NO, the root/stem/flower itself is used (sometimes dried and slightly processed), not an extract.
Ah well, in that case I'll nominate a liquorice stick - not the black extract one, the real chew-a-root variety. Yum.
Vanilla?
[Dujon] Liquorice? NO
[Raak] Vanilla? NO
Used as a flavouring?
[Raak] Flavouring? YES, but not exclusively.
Hops?
popeor
Beer
[Raak] Hops? Oh yes, Lordy, YES! A matter close to my heart :-) and hearty congrats, sir.
The next is MINERAL.
Is it a mass produced item?
[Inkspot] Yes, mass-produced.
Does it occur naturally?
[Ki] Does not occur naturally. If it did, it wouldn't have to be mass produced.
Money?
[I] Not money.
Mineral mostly (or entirely) metal?
[Rosie] Yes, mostly metal.
Bigger than a telephone box?
I can think of things that occur naturally and are also mass produced. Diamonds, for example.
A tool or implement?
Does it run on electric power?
[CdM] I would say that Rakk answered the question on 'mass produced' correctly, as it means the production of large numbers or quantities standardised items, I do not see how this could apply to diamonds.
[CdM] Not bigger that a telephone box.
[Rosie] Tool? Only very broadly speaking.
[Inkspot] Can be electric.
Bigger than a toaster?
Perhaps "mass-processed" would have been more accurate. Metals occur naturally but most have to be processed in order to have any use.
[Kim] Smaller than a toaster.
Would it normally be used inside the home?
Kikm I agree that minerals can individually be processed, however telephones, fridges, cars etc are not mass processed they are mass produced.
[Inkspot] Normally used in the home.
Would most players of this game own one?
[Inkspot] I'd say that this company and this company are pretty clearly mass-producing diamonds.
[CdM] I expect most players would own one (or more).
Those companies aren't digging them out of the ground.
A toothbrush?
[Raak] No. They are producing them. En masse. Which is my point. If the answer on the card was "Diamonds", then the correct response to both "Occurring naturally?" and "Mass-produced?" would be "Yes".

How about chicken eggs as another example? Unless you take a very narrow view of mass-production, I think they would qualify. Or what about fresh water from a desalination plant?
A knife?
I read Raak's answer as meaning that this particular thing doesn't occur naturally, rather than arguing that the two categories are mutually exclusive.
Whisk?
still wondering at CdM's "mostly metal" toothbrush...
A razor?
[IS,P] Good point. I was actually meaning to ask razor before, but then somehow talked myself into toothbrush, along the way forgetting why I had dismissed that idea earlier.
A watch or clock?
[CdM] Ok.
[I] Not a knife.
[ISP] Not a whisk.
]CdM] Not a razor.
[Rosie] *riotous applause* Yes, a watch or clock.
BTW, I have not checked to see whether this is a repetition of an earlier object. If so, perhaps the time has come...
A wrist-watch?
An alarm-clock
though mine seems to be mostly plastic.
The time has come...? Noooooooooo!
[Rosie] A wrist-watch could serve as one, but...
[Irouléguy] An alarm-clock it is.
And I see that not only has that been set before, but it was set by me before. Hm...
[Raak] Set before? Hmmm, wonder why it didn't go off. Better buy a new one.
Mine didn't go off this morning, either - though that was because I didn't set it :)
Okay, our next is ABSTRACT WITH ANIMAL connections.
The Labour Party?
Totally topical.
A fictional cgaracter?
doh! fat fingers!
g/h
Rosie] Brown is the new blue? Wholly wrong (also not the answer)
Inkers] Cgarlie in the Cgocolate Factory? No
A creative activity?
Rosie] Making something? No, but this could lead to a creative activity.
Are the animal connections human?
CdM - Person to person? Yes, essentially (other animals could be involved, and it could be argued that other animals do this, but this wouldn't be a useful line to explore.)
To do with communication?
ImNotJohn - To do with communication? In a broad sense, yes, but that's not how most people would classify this.
I Say, Porter! - Mime? *shakes head, frowns*
Is this an organisation of creative people?
Rosie - Is this an organisation of creative people? No
Is it a communicative medium?
Does it involve a specific subset of people?
Kim - Is it a communicative medium? Not entirely sure what you mean by that (and a quick Google doesn't help me). I think the answer is the same as to INJ's previous question.
ImNotJohn - Does it involve a specific subset of people? A specific instance of this would involve a specific subset of people, but in general, no.

Being completely pedantic, this can also be done with/to an inanimate object, so the definition should strictly be ABSTRACT with ANIMAL and possibly VEGETABLE and/or MINERAL connections, but this is another red herring.
Anything to do with sex?
Nudge, nudge.
Rosie - Anything to do with sex? *applause* Yes (though the answer (and the thing itself) are quite SFW).
Mostly to do with sex?
Phil - Mostly to do with sex? I don't see how you could quantify it, but there are a lot of sexual connotations, yes.
A dance?
I don't recognise "SFW". *shrugs* So f------ what.
[Rosie] Suitable for work
Flirting?
(Phil) Ah! Thanks. Now, what is this thing called work?.
Would a specific instance typically involve just two people?
[Rosie] Do you do a lot of flirting with inanimate objects, then? :-) (Excluding the trombone, of course.)
(CdM) Yes - the sax section. Woo! subversive.
Rosie - A dance, or flirting? No to both (though you might well do this while engaged in either).
Sorry about the jargon - I've seen people use 'NSFW' in Another Place, so I thought it would be understood (though I used it as 'Safe for Work')
CdM - Would a specific instance typically involve just two people? *applause* Yes
Eye contact?
Rosie - 'Oo you lookin' at? No
Does this involve physical contact?
'E 'it I, so I 'it 'e.
Rosie] A touching enquiry? *loud applause* Yes
A massage?
Phil - A massage? No
Hugging?
Rosie - Hugging? Closer, but no
Kissing?
Phil] Kissing? YES - X marks the spot! Over to Phil
In that case, your next problem to solve is ABSTRACT with ANIMAL connections
Shagging?
Worth a squirt.
[Rosie] I presume you mean chasing and catching fly balls in baseball practice? Anyway, whatever you meant: Shagging? NO!
Is the animal connection human?
An action?
(Phil) Of course. Precisely that. :-)
[INJ] Human? YES
[Rosie] An action? NO
Culturally specific?
[INJ] Relating to a certain group of people? YES
Only found in a particular part of the world?
[Irouléguy] One part of the world? NO
Is the group of people related by profession?
[INJ] related by profession? NO
Is there a religious connection?
Any artistic connection?
[Irouléguy] Religious connection? YES *tumultuous applause*
[INJ] Artistic? NO
Is the answer a religion/religious group/sect?
[CdM] Religion/religious group/sect? YES *more applause*
Is it gender specific?
[Inkspot] Gender specific? NO
Scientology?
[CdM] Scientology? NO
Christian?
[Rosie] Christian? YES, but not quite the word on the card *deafening applause, followed by a few disdainful grumbles*
Christianity?
[CdM] Christianity is the word on the card - congrats!
Wot, me again?
I think that the disdainful grumblers have a point, but in any case I'll accept the baton (which was manufactured from actual genuine pieces of the crown of thorns), and offer something

ABSTRACT and MINERAL/VEGETABLE (I think), with ANIMAL and VEGETABLE connections.
Something to do with the environment?
Not grumbling, for once.
Environmental? No. Not hereditary either.
Something to do with food?
Foody? The vegetable connection has something to do with food.
Begins with P?
A method of cooking?
Is it art?
Begins with P? It does, as a matter of fact, although I hadn't noticed until you asked.
Method of cooking? No.
Art? *audience laughter* Well, it depends on how broadly you define 'art', but I think the best answer is No.
Is the "p" followed by another consonant?
This is getting out of hand
Is the P followed by another consonant? Yes, several.


Oh, you mean immediately. No.
Is it a one word answer?
In a word? No.
Is the mineral/vegetable plastic?
Is the mineral/vegetable manufactured?
Plastic? In part (I think).
Manufactured? Yes.
(The "I think" is not any kind of trick answer; it simply reflects that I am having to take an educated guess at one aspect of the answer.)
Is it a two word answer?
Two words? No. I'll tell you for free (because I think it will be no help at all :-) ) that I vacillated between two different ways of expressing the thing on the card, one of which is six words long and does not begin with P, and on of which is shorter and does. I went for the latter.
All right, I'll be generous
It is three words including the definite article.
Passing the buck?
The deer don't stop here? No. *a scrap of applause that quickly dies away, followed by laughter, scattered applause, and much chattering*
Are both the Abstract and the Mineral/Vegetable descriptions of the same thing ?
Feeling a bit thick. Shut up at the back there.
Abstract and Mineral/Vegetable descriptions of the same thing? Yes. (Good question.)
Is the abstract meaning figurative? (E.g. the cat's whiskers)
Figurative? No. *more scattered applause, though*
Game-related?
Game related? No. *amused discussion in the audience*
Part of an animal?
Part of an animal? No.
Is this specific to a particular culture or country?
Culturally and geographically specific? Yes. I would associate it primarily (and perhaps exclusively) with one country.
Is that country the UK?
UK-based? Yes.
A dish (i.e an edible preparation)
Edible preparation? No.
Is the animal human?
This one's a bugger, innit?
Human? No.
Is the animal one particular species?
Animal = one particular species? Yes.
Is the animal emblematic?
Does this date from before 1500?
Emblematic? No. *some audience laughter*
Pre 1500? No.

A summary: This is ABSTRACT and MINERAL/VEGETABLE, with ANIMAL and VEGETABLE connections. The answer is three words, including a definite article, and begins with P immediately followed by a vowel. The abstract and mineral/vegetable are different descriptions of the same thing. The mineral/vegetable description is in part plastic (I think) and is manufactured. The abstract meaning is not figurative. The animal connection refers to one particular non-human species, and is not emblematic. The vegetable connection is connected to food but neither it, nor the overall answer, is a dish.

The answer is primarily or perhaps exclusively associated with the UK and dates from sometime after 1500. It is not art (except under a very broad definition), nor a method of cooking. It is not environmental, nor is it game-related.

Three questions provoked odd reactions from the audience, viz: "Passing the buck?", "Is it game-related?", and "Is the abstract meaning figurative? (E.g. the cat's whiskers)". The suggestions that it was art and that it was emblematic also provoked amusement.
The Pink Panther?
Pink Panther? No *considerable audience applause, nonetheless*
A fictional beast?
Going from the particular to the general.
Fictional beast? Yes. *applause*
Originally from a novel?
Once a novelty? No.
Twentieth century?
Twentieth Century? Yes.
A fearsome creature?
Originally from TV?
A fearsome creature? *audience laughter* No, not fearsome.
Once a novelTV? Yes. *applause*
Is the first word a name
Is there a question mark missing?
Parsley the Lion?
Parsley the Lion? Yes! *hands over garnished baton*
[CdM] Was your first thought "A very friendly lion called Parsley"?
[CdM] Oh well done, didn't see that coming.
Well, that was a surprisingly successfull de-lurk. Here's a plain old ABSTRACT
42?
The letter P?
Human construct?
[Raak] 42? NO
[Tuj] The letter P? NOPE (nor does it begin therewith)
[Rosie] A human construct? YES
Does it have to do with language?
[Raak] Hot tongue action? NO (except inasmuch as all answers in this game do)
Is it a philosophy?
Science-related?
[IS,P] That was indeed what I first planned to put on the card! I was amused by Irouléguy's early guess of "Passing the buck" because, even though it was completely wrong, it had the right opening syllable (at least in some accents), the right structure, and an animal as the last word.
Anything to do with sport?
CdM] Completely wrong but structurally similar - story of my life, really...
To do with the emotions?
[Phil] Osophy? NO is the best answer. * some applause *
[CdM] Sciencey-ness? NO, not really...
[Ig] Sport? NO
[Raak] Emotions? I GUESS SO.
Something to do with mental health?
Stoicism?
[Rosie] Mental health? NO, not specifically
[Raak] Stoicism? NO * scattered but uncertain applause *
In retrospect, maybe the is-it-a-philosophy guess should have had * sustained and enthusiastic applause*
Connected to a belief system?
[CdM] A belief system? YES is the least misleading answer *applause*
It isn't anarcho-syndicalism, is it?
Is this an attitude?
By that I mean such things as homophobia, racism, nationalism, patriotism and their like.
[Tuj] Anarcho-whatsit? NO *a few Anarcho-syndicalists in the audience take audible issue with this statement*
[Dujon] An attitude? NOT PER SE, but *some applause*
Is this specific to a culture or country?
[Ig] culture or country specific? There are defensible YES and NO answers. I think NO is probably more helpful.
Is there a specific person associated with it?
[Raak] Specific person associated? YES *applause*
Is it a one word answer?
Is this an -ism?
[Tuj] One word? NO
[Chalky] ism? NO
A cult of some kind?
[CdM] Reaching for one's Cult .44? NO
Is it a named law?
Is there a person's name in the answer?
[Raak] A named law? NO
[Phil] Nominated? NO
A religion?
[Phil] Religion? NO
Is it a theory of something?
[Raak] A theory? NOT AS SUCH, but for free I will mention it is theoretical. *applause*
An ideal?
[Phil] An ideal? YES! *some laughter and applause*
Is the associated person still alive?
"Slow food"?
[Phil] living person? NO - (it's actually associated with two people)
[Ig] Slow food? NO
Marx & Engels?
Are they Gilbert and Sullivan?
[Ig] Commies? NO
[Indian Pooh-Bah] GODDAMIT NO, I hate G&S.
Svengali and Trilby?
Has this anything to do with gay rights?
[Raak] Hypnotist and Hat? NO
[Chalky] Gay rights related? NO is the most helpful answer (altho it could have to do with it - but so could many other things).
Are the two people fictional?
[Phil] Fictional people? YES and NO
A fictional character, and the creator of that character?
[Raak] Fictional character? YES. Creator? NO.
To do with education?
Doest
Does the fictional character origina
Does the fictional character originate from the last century?
Sorry - work keeps getting in the way
[Phil] Education? TANGENTIALLY, but the most helpful answer is NO.
[Ig] C20th character? NO
RECAP
This thing is an ABSTRACT human construct. It is connected to philosophy but is not a philsophy per se. It is theoretical, but not a theory per se. It is connected with an attitude but is not an attitude per se. It is connected to a belief system, but is not a belief system per se. It is associated with two people, one of whom is fictional. The fictional character does not originate in the C20th. I originally said flatly that it was not connected to Science or Religion, but on further research, I find it is connected to both, tho not in a particularly famous way. Although it might be connected to many things (anarcho-syndicalists, for instance, might consider it connected to anarcho-syndicalism and gay rights campaigners might consider it connected to gay rights), it is not especially connected to mental health, sport or cults, is not an -ism, named after anyone or a law.
Oh, and it is an ideal.
Ooh, you've all gone quiet.
Does that mean I win? I'm off to Rome on Saturday, so hopefully someone will ask a breakthru question before then.
A field of study?
[Ig] Field of study? NO
To do with "rights", as opposed to specifics, such as "gay rights"?
[Phil] Rights? NOT IN PARTICULAR
Is the fictional character British?
[Phil] British? NO
Is the fictional character European?
Is the real person an actor? Playing the part of the non-fictional person?
[Ig] Character European? YES! *applause*
[Phil] Actor? NO (but think about it the other way around...)
I'm thinking, but nothing's happening :-(
Hamlet's soliloquy?
[Phil] Happiness is...? NO, but you're getting warmer.
Is the fictional person acfually mentioned in a work of fiction (as opposed to just being an imaginary person)?
Is the fictional character from Shakespeare?
[Phil] Person from a work of fiction? YES! *applause*
[Tuj] Bardish? NO
So, to clarify what I think I understand: the two associated people are (i) the author of a fictional work and (ii) a character in that work. However, the answer itself is neither the author, nor the character. Is that correct?
[CdM] The author? NO! *audience gasps*. A character? YES. The answer is neither? CORRECT.
I suppose you could associate it with the author, come to think of it, but I'm not sure that many people do. But I may be wrong in that, so if it helps you to consider that it's associated with three people, then plz do so...
Fiction from pre 1000AD/CE?
[Phil] Pre-1000CE? NO
Man and Superman
[INJ] Clark Kent and alter ego? NO
Pre 20th century fictional character?
[Phil] Pre-C20th, YES *applause*
Is anyone ready for a clue?
I think I'm about ready, as my train of thought seems to be stuck for eternity at Clapham.
a clue
By far the most significant fact about The Answer so far revealed is that it is "an ideal".
Oh drat - that's the fact that's confusing all my other thoughts. Better sleep on this one then.
Brave New World?
[CdM] Miranda Huxley? NO
PS. [Phil] Bear in mind that there is more than one meaning for the word "ideal"...
A Platonic ideal?
[Raak] Perfectly Plato? NO
Hmm....Is/was the real person a writer?
My Greek O-level already reminded me of that :-)
OOPS!!! That was me, not Projoy, sorry!
[Projoy, er Phil] A writer? YES
Is it associated with a psychological condition?
doo-de-doo, third week of this clue
[INJ] Psychological condition? NO

Another recap: This ABSTRACT - which could be called "an ideal" - is associated with two people: a European (non-British) fictional character from the period 1000-1900CE and a real person (from the same period), who was a writer. It could also be associated with the author (also from the same period) who created the fictional character, who is not the same person as the real-person-writer, and is not Shakespeare, Gilbert, Sullivan, Marx nor Engels. There is a strong philosophy connection, altho it is not "a philosophy" per se, nor "an attitude" nor "a belief system", but is connected to these ideas. There are also science and religion connections. It is not a law, stoicism, eponymous, a platonic ideal, to do with sport, anarcho-syndicalism, a psychological condition, a cult, a method of cooking, a field of study, Man and Superman, "Brave New World" nor to do with education. It could be argued that it is country/culture specific, but also that it isn't (I think no is the most helpful answer).

Anarcho-syndicalists would associate The Answer with Anarcho-syndicalism. Gay rights campaigners would associate it with gay rights.
Man and Superman?
[Chalky] M&S? NO, see my reply to INJ. Not Nietzsche, Shaw or Siegel and Shuster.
Anything to do with utopia?
[Raak] Utopia? VERY NEARLY!! *tumultuous applause*
The Lost World?
[INJ] Lost world? NO *some applause*
Nirvana?
[Phil] Nirvana? NO *audience muttering about Europe*
Communism?
Bit of a wild stab in the dark, this one.
[nights] Communism? NO, though a Communist would disagree.
Is this anything to do with fascism or ethnic purity?
Is the answer the title /author of a book?
sorry if this has already been askeded
Eutopia?
Were the ideas of this author reflected in the work of Bunyon's Pilgrim's Progress, though the latter was far more 'religious'?
[Chalky] Fascism/Ethnic Purity? NO (altho Fascists and ethnic puritans would disagree)
[Chalky] Title/author? NO
[Phil] Eutopia? NO, but that is arguably a closer guess than "Utopia" *a huge oooooh of approval from the audience*
[Dujon] Were the ideas...? I haven't read/studied Bunyan, but going by Wikipedia's description of PP, I would be inclined to say NO.
"The best of all possible worlds"?
Metaphysico-theologico-cosmolonigology?
Is the fiction 19th century?
[Phil] C19th, NO
[Raak] All that jazz? NO, for
[Irouléguy] YES!!. The very words on the card. I must admit I didn't read the Wikipedia entry on Leibniz before setting the clue, so didn't realise in time that the idea had such a close relationship with science and theology in its initial incarnation, having first heard of it via Voltaire's Dr Pangloss.
Congrats, Irouléguy. I'd never have got that, as I'd never heard of it, alas, and my web-trawling didn't lead me anywhere near it :-(
Thanks, Phil - and well done Projoy - that must be a record! I can't claim any great web-trawling skills, it just came to me. I think I did the play in French A level *cough* years ago, but I didn't know of the connections with Leibniz.

Well, our next should be a short one, so here goes - it's ABSTRACT, VEGETABLE and MINERAL with ANIMAL connections.
Is it fictional?
[Ig] Not sure what took so long on that one, altho there did seem to be a bit of a lack of deductive questions in the middle stages. [Phil] Well, there you go, and I was convinced, Candide aside, that it was an everyday expression...
Is the animal connection human?
[Projoy] At least I've learn a new word ('theodicy'). Tangentially; I'm a bit concerned about where the "all" comes from in a translation of the French "le meilleur des mondes possibles", but I don't think it changes the meaning enough for me to lose sleep over, and I'm sure it's been discussed to death over the last 293 years already. That was a criticism of whoever translated it, not you, btw.
The seed that fell on stony ground?
Projoy - Is it fictional? No
I thought it was an everyday expression too, but I just twigged it from your answer to 'Utopia' and the European connection.

Phil - Is the animal connection human? Yes
I thought 'theodicy' was Homer's follow-up...

Raak - The seed that fell on stony ground? No
Raak] If that was a prediction rather than a guess, then you may be right.
Is the vegetable wood?
Projoy - Is the vegetable wood? Yes, but there are other vegetables/vegetable products also involved.
Is any of it edible?
Raak - Filling your face? What it's made of isn't edible, but there are edibles in it.
Is paper involved?
Raak - Is paper involved? There's paper in it.
Is it a place?
Chalky - Is it a place? *the audience awakes cheering* Yes.
Fictional?
[Raak] Fictional? NO. See Ig's answer to me, above. :)
Is it larger than a town?
The Natural History Museum?
Projoy - Is it larger than a town? *applause* Than some towns, yes...
Team-hosting - I like it!
I Say, Porter! - The Natural History Museum? No
An island?
Is it a country?
Is it man-made?
Apologies for my long absence - back at the keyboard now.
Projoy - An island? No
Tuj - Is it a country? No
Raak - Is it man-made? Yes
A building?
Does it still exist?
Projoy - A building? No
Raak - Does it still exist? Yes
A defined municipal area?
Projoy - A defined municipal area? *collective "oooh" from the audience, mixed with the occasional muttered "cleverclogs" A most precise definition of the class of things to which this particular belongs.
In England?
A green belt?
Projoy - In England? No
Raak - A green belt? No

Coincidentally
In the UK?
Does it begin with P?
Projoy - In the UK? Yes
Tuj - Does it begin with P? No
A single specific named area?
ImNotJohn - A single specific named area? Yes

In case it wasn't clear, the answer to Projoy's "defined municipal area" was an emphatic "yes".
Is it a place where things are sold?
Scotland?
Raak - Is it a place where things are sold? Things are sold in this place.
Projoy - Scotland? OCH AYE
The Gorbals?
ImNotJohn - The Gorbals? No
The Toy Parliament?
A current administrative division?
+ <i>
Raak - Wholly rude about Holyrood? No
Projoy - A current administrative division? Yes
+ </i>
Does it incorporate any islands?
Does it incorporate any mainland?
Does it fall entirely within another defined municipal area?
Projoy - Does it incorporate any islands? No
CdM - Does it incorporate any mainland? ;) It's on the mainland of Scotland
ImNotJohn - Does it fall entirely within another defined municipal area? No
Is "shire" anywhere in the name of it?
Does it have historical significance?
Projoy - Tolkein connections? No
CdM - Does it have historical significance? *applause* Yes
Culloden?
CdM - Culled? No
Stirling?
Does it have the word "and" anywhere in its name?
Phil - On the money? No
Projoy - Does it have the word "and" anywhere in its name? *applause* Yes
The Highlands?
(Couldn't resist)
Dumfries and Galloway?
CdM - The Highlands? *applause* No
(Couldn't resist) That's a little harsh - 1314, 1715, 1745?
Projoy - Dumfries and Galloway? No

CdM is both conceptually and geographically closer
Perth and Kinross?
Ross and Cromarty?
(Although that does contain a few islands)
But and Ben?
[Raak] Flobble obble obble! Weeeeed!
I take it that's a nobbleobble.
Projoy - Perth and Kinross? No
ImNotJohn - Ross and Cromarty? No
Raak - But and Ben? No
I Say, Porter! - [Raak] Flobble obble obble! Weeeeed! Thank you, but I've given up

People should look again at the various meanings of 'municipal', and at CdM's last question.
Callander?
Aye Janet.
So is this thing not "a settlement which has the status and powers of a unit of local government." (Wikipedia)?
ImNotJohn - Callander? Nae, Doctor
Projoy - So is this thing not "a settlement which has the status and powers of a unit of local government." (Wikipedia)? Yes, it is - most of the previous answers didn't fit that definition, hence my reminder.
Is it uninhabited?
Yes, it is not, or yes, it actually is? :-)
If it is a municipal area, and it is a current municipal area, and if it is not incorporated wholly in any other municipal area, is it, in fact a unitary authority of Scotland?
Raak - Is it uninhabited? No
Projoy - Yes, it is not, or yes, it actually is? :-) Yes, it actually is

*deep breath* It is a current municipal area, not incorporated wholly in any other municipal area, but it is not a unitary authority.
Is it a parliamentary constituency (for either parliament)?
Is it a London Borough?
Projoy] Is it a parliamentary constituency (for either parliament)? No - though I'll throw in as a clue that the names of the two constituencies (one in each parliament) that this is located in consist of the same three words, but not in the same order.
nights] Is it a London Borough? Barking & Dagenham up the wrong tree - it's in Scotland

And so to bed.
Presumably this thing also crosses a unitary authority boundary?
Projoy - Presumably this thing also crosses a unitary authority boundary? No

Time for a recap? This is a place in Scotland, a defined municipal area, wholly on the Scottish mainland, not falling within another defined municipal area, which is a current administrative division. It is larger than some towns (a question which reaped applause). It has historical significance, and the word 'and' in its name. It could also be defined as "a settlement which has the status and powers of a unit of local government." It is not a constituency (for either parliament), nor is it a unitary authority, and it falls wholly within a unitary authority. Most of the specific wrong guesses have been neither settlements nor municipal areas (though the Highlands got applause despite being neither). It is not Callander, Culloden or Stirling.

Are we working on different definitions of 'municipal'? My dictionary gives "of or pertaining to a town, city or burgh", and I'm using it as a synonym for 'urban' here. Apologies if different definitions have caused confusion.
The Balmoral Estate?
I feel that "falling wholly within a unitary authority" contradicts "not falling within another defined municipal area" (taking "municipal" to refer very specifically to local government, as per Wikipedia), but the clarification helps!
Aberdeen?
PS. I'm not sure what else in Scotland has "the status and powers of a unit of local government" other than unitary authorities (except the very small community councils), but I guess we can argue about it after the answer is revealed. :)
St Andrews?
Projoy - The Balmoral Estate? No
I feel that "falling wholly within a unitary authority" contradicts "not falling within another defined municipal area" (taking "municipal" to refer very specifically to local government, as per Wikipedia), but the clarification helps!
Sorry for the confusion- the dictionary I was using equated municipal with urban, but looking around Wikipedia that seems to be less than universal (though Wikipedia also has contradictory definitions of what exactly this place's status is).

Projoy - Aberdeen? No (but *applause* for part of your PS) On further inspection, the answer to "a settlement which has the status and powers of a unit of local government" should have been "settlement" YES "status" UMM "powers" NOT REALLY, NO, UNLESS YOU COUNT ORGANISING BANDSTAND CONCERTS AND A FLORAL COMPETITION.

CdM] St Andrews Yes - a hole in one! Well lurked, sir. Let me hand over this mashie-shaped baton while I prepare to debate the precise nature of Scottish local government after the 1973 settlement.
Heh. Well, I guess it does have a Community Council (According to Wikipedia and the BBC, tho, the two parliamentary constituencies are exactly identically named - however, the two sources disagree about the exact syntax of the name!). Ah well...
Who are you calling a lurker? I asked five questions, until I got stuck on (a) the same problem that confused Projoy and (b) the differing constituency names. My guess of the Highlands was intended as a joke; at that time I was just assuming the answer was of the A and B variety. Anyway
This is Mainly Mineral and Vegetable.
A geographical feature?
Is it unique?
Geographical feature? No is the best answer.
Unique? Yes.
(You could also make a case that this is ABSTRACT, by the way, but I think that is less helpful.)
Is it a piece of countryside?
Is it man-made?
Does it begin with P?
Countryside? No.
Man-made? Yes.
Begins with P? The answer to that question begins with N.
One or more buildings?
One or more buildings? Yes, the mainly mineral part refers to one or more buildings. *applause*
(More precisely, the mainly mineral part mainly refers to one or more buildings. Mainly.)
Does it (physically) exist?
Physical existence? Yes.
The vegetable component - is that the building's contents?
Projoy] Sorry about the constituency names - I got that from the Wiki page on St Andrews itself. The parliaments' official pages do have the same name. I really should know better than to trust Wiki...
CdM] Good questions they were too - sorry about the lurker crack. The applause for the Highlands was meant to acknowledge that your joke was on target.
Was it established in the last 100 years?
I think this one will fall fast
Vegetable component = building's or buildings' contents? Yes. *applause*
Established in last 100 years? No.
Is this edifice and contents a museum?
Is it a university?
Spitalfields market?
Kew Gardens?
In the UK?
Museum? No. * a smattering of applause, none the less*
A university? No.
Spitalfields? No.
Q? No, 007.
Inuk? No.
Open to the general public? (with or without a fee)
Houses of Parliament?
It its purpose to display the vegetable matter?
s/It/Is
Is it in Europe?
Open to Public? Yes.
HoP? No.
Purposeful veggie display? No. *some applause accompanied by some whispered debate*
In Europe? No.
Is the vegetable matter inside it by design?
Vegetable matter by design? Yes.
Is it in the U.S.A?
Does your definition of 'Europe' exclude the U.K.?
Inus? Yes.
Does my definition of 'Europe' exclude the U.K.? Of course it doesn't! Does your definition of 'Australasia' exclude Australia? :-)
A park or public garden?
Park or Public Garden? No. This may be a time to, as INJ often exhorts, examine your assumptions.
Do the buildings have roofs?
Is the vegetable matter alive?
Do the buildings have roofs? Yes. *laughter*
Living vegetables? No.
A church or other religious building?
Godhouse? No. *some chattering and laughter in the audience from people who know Néa*
Is it Botanical gardens?
In North America?
Is this a group of buildings mainly with a single purpose?
(I suppose that's really two questions)
Hershey's Chocolate Factory?
Nobody listens to CdM
Botanical gardens? No. (See non-living vegetable matter)
North America? Yes. (See in the USA, above)
Group of buildings mainly with simple purpose? Yes. *applause*
Willy Wonka? No.
Is the answer the name of a distinct metropolitan area?
Is the vegetable mostly wood?
Is the vegetable matter intended to be consumed in some form?
Wall Street?
The White House?
Metropolis? No.
Mostly wood? Yes. *applause with that subtle timbre that indicates relief*
Vegetable intended for consumption? No, at least for the standard narrow meaning of 'consumption' (see 'wood', above)
Wall Street? No.
The White House? No. *tiny smattering of applause*
A government building?
The Bridges of Madison County?
Government building? Yes.
Bridges of Madison County? No.
The Supreme Court?
Supreme Court? No.
Is it in New York?
In New York? No.
In DC?
Did you know you'd changed INJ's "single purpose" to "simple purpose" in your answer?
In DC? Yes.
Was I aware of my typo? No. The group of buildings mainly has a single purpose, and I suppose you could say that purpose is pretty simple as well.
Camp david?
The Library of Congress?
Camp David? No.
Library of Congress? YES! One baton duly recorded and put into storage. Projoy can have this stick instead.
OK. VEGETABLE (+ some MINERAL), or ABSTRACT
The Woodentops?
I feel thick after not knowing anything about 2 of the last 3 answers :-(
Vegetable in its natural state, eg a forest, meadow etc?
[Phil] The most stupid, boring programme ever made? NO
[Rosie] Natural state? NO
Is it unique?
Printed paper conveying ideas?
[Quendalon] Unique? The best answer from my research is NO.
[Raak] Printed paper conveying ideas? YES
An Abstract?
A book?
Does it have a single author?
[Rosie] An abstract? NO, not in that sense.
[Raak] A book? YES! *applause*
[Quen] One author? YES.
(NB. just for simplicity, I'm going to take my facts for this round from Wikipedia)
Fiction?
[Raak] Fiction? NO (some laughter)
Is this a biography of some kind?
A reference book?
[Duj] Biography? NO
[Phil] Reference? I would say YEEES.
Magna Carta?
A record of the proceedings of some body?
[Rosie] Poor Hungarian Peasant Girl? NO
[Raak] Proceedings of a body? NO *much audience laughter*
Encyclopaedia Morningtonia?
Available on Amazon?
Originally written in English?
Religious in nature?
[Kim] E.M.? N.O.
[Raak] Amazonian? YES
[INJ] English orginally? NO
[Q] Religious? YES
Originally written in a south Asian language?
To do with Islam?
Christian?
[Ig] South Asian? YES
[irach] Mecca-noid? NO
[Phil] Crucials? NO
The Mahabharata?
What a great Channel 4 series that was.
The Lotus Sutra?
[Phil] Mahabarata? NO *applause*
[Raak] Lotus Sutra? NO *sustained applause*
Does the answer have the form "The [X] Sutra"?
The Kama Sutra?
Lurking shamelessly
He who lurketh laugheth lenthily
[Ig] A hole in one! As it were. It is The Kama Sutra. * hands over slightly suggestive-looking baton*
Stolen from under Raak's nose, for which apologies. Our next is ABSTRACT with MINERAL and ANIMAL connections.
Shagging?
Going with the flow. Not too sure about the connections, though.
Rosie - Shagging? *sardonic laughter* No

The KS does illustrate most possible permutations of connections...
Is it a human construct?
Standard opening.
Does it begin with a 'T'?
A recording?
[Projoy] I'd just like to say how much I'm enjoying re-reading your "YEEES" answer to my "reference book" question.
Anything to do with death?
Kim - Is it a human construct? Yes
Chalky - Quick cuppa? No
Phil - A recording? No
Projoy - Anything to do with death? *applause* Yes, though not directly.
A religious idea?
An addiction?
Is it fictional?
[Chalky] Eh? You do have some funny ideas.
Projoy - A religious idea? Religiously derived, yes
Dujon - An addiction? No
Tuj - Is it fictional? *animated discussion among audience* Part of it (hopefully) is fictional.
- Eh? You do have some funny ideas.*applause*

I should say that the mineral bit of the definition is slightly tongue-in-cheek, and a dead end as an avenue of enquiry.
Tithing?
Is it an old idea, now largely ignored?
Does it pertain to a specific religion
?
Projoy - Tithing? No
Rosie - Is it an old idea, now largely ignored? It is an old idea (though I can't find any dating for it). The best answer for "largely ignored" is that it's not applicable.
Kim - Does it pertain to a specific religion? No
The Golden Rule?
Raak - Whoever has the gold, makes the rules? No

Amplifying the answer to Kim's previous question: the religious reference in the answer is common to many religions, but this would have originated as a reference to one particular religion.
To do with the afterlife?
Projoy - To do with the afterlife? Yes
From a Middle Eastern originated religion?
To do with some kind of underworld?
Re-incarnation?
Projoy - From a Middle Eastern originated religion? Yes
Tuj - To do with some kind of underworld? *scattered applause* in some religions, yes (though not the originating one).
Rosie - Re-incarnation? No
Purgatory?
Croydon on a Saturday afternoon.
Limbo?
A Christian idea?
Rosie - Purgatory? No
Phil - Dancing? No
Projoy - A Christian idea?*applause* Yes (though not exclusively - as above)
Hell?
Rosie - Hell? *applause* Damned right! 'Hell' is one of the five words in the answer
A snowball in Hell/?
A snowball in Hell's Chance?
... I meant. Altho I don't suppose there's any likelihood that's the answer.
Projoy - A snowball in Hell's Chance? *loud applause - the audience sit bolt upright awaiting the next move* Sooo close - but not the exact words on the card
A cat in hell's chance?
The day hell freezes over?
A cold day in hell?
And the next move it is - "a cat in hell's chance" being the exact words on the card. One kitten now passed over to Projoy.
ANIMAL, VEGETABLE and MINERAL
Is it, or does it contain, an entire ecosystem?
Animal human?
[Quen] Entire ecosystem? NO
[Rosie] Animal human? NO
Culinary in nature?
[Quen] Culinary? YES.
A dish, served hot? (both)
Is the mineral component substantial (i.e., more than a pinch of salt)?
[Rosie] A dish? YEEES. Served hot? NO
[CdM] Mineral substantial? NO
Food for humans?
[Raak] Human beans? YES
Is it traditionally a starter?
[Phil] A starter? NO
Made from a specific animal?
It is traditionally a dessert?
[Ig] specific animal? YES, altho check your assumptions
[Kim] A dessert? YEEEES, but see answer re: dish. In fact in retrospect, NO would be a better answer to the dish question.
Lemon curd?
[Q] Citric Spread? NO
Whipped cream?
[GIII] No, thank you.
A sauce?
Lassi?
[Q] Saucy? NO
[Raak] Come Home? NO
Is it revenge?
[Kim] Revenge? NO (remember that the answer to "is it a dish?" has been revised to NO...)
Is it liquid?
Does it contain an animal 'product'?
Would it be eaten at a specific time of year?
[Raak] Liquid? NO
[Chalky] Animal product? YES
[Tuj] Specific time of year? NO
Does it contain alcohol?
Does it taste sweet rather than savoury?
Contains Dairy Produce?
[Q] Booze? NO
[Chalky] Sweet? YES
[INJ] Dairy? YES
Does its preparation require cooking?
[Q] I would say YES, but that's a broadly worded question.
Is it a dressing?
[Rosie] Dressing? NO
Is milk the animal product?
[Chalky] Got milk? YES!
Rice pudding?
[Rpsie] Lovely rice pudding for dinner again? NO (remember that the answer to "is it a dish?" has been revised to NO...)
Cheese?
Are we using the standard definition of cooking: 'preparing food by a process which includes the application of heat to it' - or the bachelor definition 'any part of meal preparation, including looking up the phone number of the local pizza delivery'?
Yoghurt?
[INJ] Cheese? NO (this is sweet, not savoury, as per Chalky's question)
Is it 'cooked' by the standard definition of cooking? YES, but be careful with your assumptions. It was a very broadly phrased question.
[Kim] Yoghurt? NO
*recalls that there is such a thing as sweet cheese and apologises to INJ*
Custard?
[Custard] Graham III? NO
Milkshake?
Milk Chocolate?
[Kim] Milkshake? NO
[Chalky] Milk Chocolate? *tumultuous applause* The Answer does indeed contain milk chocolate (but The Answer does not contain the words "milk chocolate")
Angel Delight (milk choccy version)
Hoping it doesn't count as a dish.
Is it a pudding of any sort?
Walnut Whip? [teehee]
An after dinner mint?
[Rosie] Angel Delight? NO (don't forget I only said Yeeees to "dessert", not "YES!")
[Q] Pudding on the Ritz? NO
[Chalky] Walnut Whip? NO *strongly supportive applause*
[Dujon] After Dinner Mint? NO
Is it ever eaten on its own, not as a part of a meal?
Mocha?
Is it an item of confectionery?
[Rosie] Eaten on its own? CERTAINLY
[irach] Mocha? NO
[Phil] Confectionery? YES! *applause*
(and I've just looked up dessert in Wiktionary, and realised that this basically isn't one, so sorry about that)
Does the answer involve a brand name?
[Raak] Brand name? YES! *applause*
Creme Egg (yum)
[Phil] Creme Egg? NO *exactly the same amount of applause as for Walnut Whip*
A Mars bar?
[Raak] Mars Bar? NO
A bar of chocolate as opposed to a box of sweets?
A Cadbury's Flake?
Does it begin with P?
Is it crunchy?
Made by Cadbury's?
[Rosie] Bar? NO
[Ig] Flake? NO
[Tuj] Begins with P? NO *smattering of applause*
[Chalky] Crunchy? NOT REALLY
[Phil] Cadbury? NO
A Hershey Bar?
May they rot in hell for inventing such an insult to chocolate.
Oh bumbags, it's not a chocolate bar - scratch my last question please :-)
Made by Nestlé?
[Phil] Hershey Bar? NO *some applause, all the same*
[Phil] Formula pushers? NO
A Tim Tam?
[Chalky] Coffee straw? NO
It's got to be Nestlé Power Bar? Shurely
If not that brand - is it a Nestlé product?
MilKy Bar?
A British confectionery?
[Chalky] It's not Nestlé
M&Ms?
Thanks Phil. Missed your question.
[irach] M & M's - are they not 'crunchy'?
[Phil] British? NO! *audience gasps, several ladies faint*
[irach] eminems? NO *and yet, a faint stirring in the audience as if they sensed a connection with The Answer, yet it is too obscure to express in more than a sigh*
MMM...Maltesers?
[Ig] The lighter way...? NO
Is this product made by Mars, Cadbury, Nestle or Hershey?
Think we need to eliminate
Is it a European manufacturer?
Hershey's Kisses?
[Chalky] Is it one of those manufacturers? Strictly, YES, but beware.
[Chalky] European? NO
[irach] Hershey's Kisses? NO *some applause*
(please also note that previous questions have ruled out Cadbury and Nestlé)
Rolo?
strike that. It's a Nestlé product.
Almond Joy?
Hershey's Bites?
[Chalky] The joy of the almond? NO
[Chalky] Hershey's bites? NO
Hershey's pops?
I'm getting bored now
[Chalky] Hershey's Pops? NO (I fear you did not heed my "beware" on your manufacturer question!)
Hint to avoid boredom: ask more deductive questions and stop making wild guesses :-P
A seasonal confection?
An M&M/Mars product? Like Minstrels, say?
Wild guesses? I was riding on the applause meted out to Hershy-ness answers.
[irach] Seasonal? NO
[Chalky] Mars manufactured? NO, which as you so rightly say leaves Hershey revealed as the manufacturer. But again, I say beware. :)
Is the brand name in the answer "Hershey" (or "Hershey's")?
Does this involve chocolate chips?
Is it solid (i.e. does not flow, wobble, or ooze, even if cut open)?
[Phil] Is "Hershey" in the answer? NO *more audience gasps*
[irach] Chips with everything? NO
[Raak] Solid? YES
Reese's Peanut Butter Cups
[Chalky] YAY! It is indeed A Reese's Peanut Butter Cup. One baton filled with peanut goop handed over.
*sighs* Oh well, as wikipedia says "possibly one of Hershey's best-known products due to long-running massive advertising campaigns". Another never-heard-of one for me. Still, I shan't give up!
(Phil) Me neither.
Ey?
What in the world is a Reese's Peanut Butter Cup? Having read Phil's Wikipedia extract I am just as in the dark as would be a chocolate coated peanut. Yes I could, but no I won't, go a-Googling.
*went a-googling*
Phew! Thanks PJ for a challenging, yet somehow obvious, little puzzle [ie; not obviously Hershey, not a bar, not crunchy]. Having put SO much effort into it, I feel pleased to have finally nailed it :-)

Next up:

A N I M A L / A B S T R A C T

Animal instinct?
A symbolic animal?
[irach] Animal instinct? NO
[Raak] A symbolic animal? NO
Something I'm likely to have heard of?
Is the animal human?
[Phil] Something you're likely to have heard of? YES :-)
[irach] Is the animal human? YES
Fictional?
Male?
Alive (if not fictional)?
[Raak] Fictional? YES
[Projoy] Male? YES
[Phil] as above
Originally from a novel?
A young person?
[Irouléguy] Originally from a novel? YES
[Rosers] A young person? YES is probably the most useful answer.
A novel from before 1950?
Do some or all of the words on the card appear in the title of the novel?
[Reese's] Have none of you ever watched E.T.? (OK, it's not exactly the same product, but it is close.)
[Reese's] They are on sale in the UK now, too. You can get 'em in my local corner shop, and very nice they are too.
Dorian Gray?
Has the character appeared in film?
Is/was the novelist English?
[CdM] I've only seen the re-release in 2000 (or whenever it was), and only because my children insisted. I didn't pay attention though.
[Projoy] A novel from before 1950? NO
[CdM] Do some or all of the words on the card appear in the title of the novel? NO . But despite the negative answer the * audience applauses* because it was a significant question.
[Kim} Picture in the Attic? NO
[Raak] Has the character appeared in film? YES
[Irouléguy] Is/was the novelist English? NO
CORRECTION! [PJ] A novel before 1950? YES YES YES
sorry chaps - schoolgirl typing error
Is/was the author (and indeed his character) French?
A novel before 1900?
Is/was the novelist British?
[Dujon] Is/was the author [and character] French? YES!
[Projoy] A novel before 1900? YES
[Phil] British? NO
Is the author Dumas?
American author?
[Graham III] Dumas? YES *hoorah hoorahs from a very lively audience*
[Projoy] American? Nah
I am now out and about for a couple of hours and will not have access to the 'net tomorrow - so keep 'em coming. We can wrap this up by mid-afternoon.
D'Artagnan?
Oops. Didn't read previous answer re: nationality of author
Porthos?
'The Man in the iron Mask'?
All "Three Musketeers"- like the candy bar?
Edmond Dantès?
The Count of Monte Cristo?
Sorry - got delayed
[Irouléguy] Porthos? NO
[I'mNotJohn] The Man In The Iron Mask? NO
[irach] All 3 Musketeers? NO
[Graham III] The Count of MOnte Cristo? NO .. but .. * mega-cheering from audience* because ...

[Raak] Edmond Dantès? HAS GOT THE ANSWER ON THE CARD!

Chalké passés le baton to Raak.
Free at last! Drat, I've only tunnelled into another cell. This one is VEGETABLE, with ABSTRACT connections.
Is it edible?
Not edible.
Is it wood?
Yes, it's wood.
Is it Norwegian?
[CdM] No reason it couldn't be, but not specifically. (Norwegian?) Not a Christmas tree either.
Is it alive?
Not alive.
Is it a specific (one-off) article?
Is it a carving/sculpture?
[INJ] Not a specific article.
[Phil] *murmuring in the audience* Mm...no. Not a carving or sculpture.
Is it the cross on which Jesus was crucified?
[Raak, Chalky] Whoops, forgot they were the same person...!
Does it resemble its original form (i.e. looks like, or rather like it did when it was alive?)
[G III] Not the Cross.
[Projoy] Does not resemble its original form.
Has the wood been chopped/mash/shredded/generally bashed around to achieve its current state?
[Chalky] The wood is undistressed.
[Projoy, clarification] That is, it is not a tree.
An outdoors object?
Assuming being sawn, planed etc does not cause distress.
[Rosie] Not an outdoors object.
So it has no bark?
[Projoy] No bark. Wood, processed from its original state in the tree, but not in the destructive and ham-handed ways mentioned by Chalky.
Has it been carved?
Would this have been created by a carpenter or cabinet maker?
As opposed to an artist or lumber merchant.
Is this specific to a particular country or culture?
[Phil] Not carved.
[Dujon]The audience murmurs at one of those words. Taking that as four questions: no, possibly, possibly, and no. (I had to look up Wikipedia to find out what a carpenter was, more precisely than someone who works in some way with wood.)
[I] Not very specific.
Is it created in order to contain something?
[Projoy] Does not contain anything.
Is it a part of something?
Has the wood been 'turned'?
[I] Complete in itself.
[Chalky] The wood has been turned.
Ornamental and decorative?
Is there symbolism attached to this turned wooden item?
[Chalky] Not ornamental or decorative.
[Phil] Not symbolic.
[Phil, re "carved'] Actually, carving might have a part to play in its creation.
Found in the home?
Used in a game?
[Phil] It can be found in some homes.
[I] Not used in a game.
Is it smaller than a telephone box [the proper red one]?
[Chalky] Smaller than a telephone box.
Is it essentially long & thin?
Defined as more than 3 times as long in one dimension than in either of the other two.
P.S. Where's Tuj, we don't know this object's initial P-ness?
Can you put something on it?
[INJ] It could be long and thin, but not esentially so.
[Chalky] You can put something on it. *sounds of demurral from the audience, whereupon the chairman produces one and demonstrates putting something on it. "Aha", say the audience.*
Does it have a primary specific function?
Is it larger than a toaster?
[CdM] It has a primary specific function.
[Chalky] It can be larger than a toaster.
A rolling pin?
[Rosie] Not a rolling pin.
A wooden alarm clock?
[CdM] Brrthbbthb? No.
There is actually a smidgen of Mineral in this, but it's primarily Vegetable.
Aah .. NOW you tell us :-)
Does it frame something?
[Chalky] Not a frame.
Is this a tool?
Is it a kitchen utensil?
A mug tree?
[Chalky] It performs a function, but it wouldn't ordinarily be called a tool.
[ " ] Not a kitchen utensil.
[Projoy] Not a mug tree.
Is this a prosthesis?
[Dujon] Not a prosthesis.
Is its cross-section circular for its entire length?
A board of some kind?
[Phil] Not wholly circular.
[Rosie] Not a board.
Is it typically used in conjunction with some other object?
[CdM] Yes. Various other objects.
Could you buy one in a depaertment store?
[Phil] What's with the posh accent?
[Phil] It's not the first place I'd look, but you might find one thaere.
Could you buy one in a haerdwaer store?
Is it a hatstand?
Is the mineral element nails? Or screws? or Glue?
[CdM] Not found in a hardware store.
[G III] Not a hatstand?
[ " ] Could be nails; wouldn't be screws or glue.
Are most of us likely to have one (or more than one)?
Is it a piece of furniture?
[Cdm} That's how it's spelt in Flemish.
[I] Most of us are unlikely to have one. I have one, though.
[R] Not furniture.
Does it have any moving parts?
An abacus?
[Q] It has moving parts.
[CdM] Not an abacus.
Is it a descant, treble, tenor, alto or bass recorder?
Or even a Sopranino?
Is it a type of flute?
{Chalky] Not a wind instrument of any sort.
Is it a musical instrument?
[Phil] Not a musical instrument of any sort.
Is it used in sport?
[Phil] Not used in sport.
Are the nails that could be present used simply to join pieces of wood together, or do they serve some other function?
(The only way in to this problem that I am seeing right now is the odd notion that this could include nails but not screws.)
Does one have to 'hold' this thing in order for it to function?
[CdM] The nails (or other fasteners) hold it together.
[Chalky] Hm...part of its function requires handling it, part requires not handling it.
Does it have a handle?
Have these been around since before 1900?
[CdM] No handle.
[Projoy] I don't know, but I think it's very likely to have been around since before 1900.
Are they or could they ever be made of something other than wood?
A wooden arras?
[Hi CdM - seems like we're posting at the same time. Have to confess, I'm fascinated by this particular puzzle, but have to go out in half an hour so will miss any activity this afternoon].
Is it customarily of European origin?
[CdM] They could be made of other things, but I've never come across them made of anything but wood.
[Chalky] Not a wooden arras.
[Phil] Yes, European.
*going off on one, like she does*
C'mon Raak. Does this audience have a pulse? Or does it merely murmur at the question of carpenter v cabinet maker and then 15 hours later summon up the energy to demur at the notion that something 'could be put on top' of this thing? Hey, I know you're a cool dude an' all that, but please - can we have a bit of encouragement, or even a clue? :-)
Time for a precis I think:

It is or does:

made of wood
undistressed
possibly created by a cabinet maker or artist (audience murmurs)
complete in itself
turned wood
found in some homes
smaller than a telephone box
possibly long and thin but not essentially so
able to have put something on it
has a primary specific function
can be larger than a toaster
used in conjunction with various other objects
have moving parts
does have mineral fasteners to hold it together, but these are not screws or glues
require handling as part of its function (CARE - see also the 'not' section)
very likely to have been around prior to 1900 AD
possible that this could be made of material other than wood, but the Chairman has not seen such
European

It is not or does not:

edible
alive
specific (one-off) article
carving or sculpture (though audience reacts)
the Calvary cross
resemble its original form
an outdoor object
retain bark
carved (though might have a part to play in its creation)
specific to a country or culture
contain anything
ornamental or decorative
symbolic
used in a game
a toaster
a rolling pin
a wooden alarm clock
normally purchased in a department store (though one might)
found in a hardware store
a hatstand
something that most people would have, though the Chairman is blessed
a piece of furniture
a frame
a tool (despite it performing a function)
a kitchen utensil
a mug tree
a prothesis
wholly circular
a board
a musical instrument of any sort
used in sport
requires not handling it as part of its function (CARE - see also the 'is' section)
have a handle
a wooden arras

NOTE: Ruddy 'eck that's long. Please forgive me if I've missed something.
Raak, you might run your eye over it in case I've misinterpreted anything. Ta.
Sorry, CdM
Nor is it an abacus
[Dujon] I think you left out a "not" -- this is something that most people would not have, although I do.
Is its purpose connected with art?
[Projoy] *cheering in the aisles* Yes, connected with art.
An easel?
[Projoy] Not an easel.
An artists palette?
(For Projoys sake, Im leaving it unclear if Im talking about one or multiple artists.)
[CdM] Not a palette.
I took a closer look at mine, and there are a few screws in it.
A wooden posable model thingy for artists to use to get human forms right?
[Phil] *applause* You have precisely guessed the words on the card! It is indeed a wooden posable model thingy for artists to use to get human forms right!
[Raak] Is there an official name for a WPMTfAtUtgHFR?
The simplest description I've found is an artists' manikin.
Here goes another one: ANIMAL, VEGETABLE & MINERAL
A cornet player dressed up (in natural fibres) as a pink fairy?
Is the animal element human?
[Raak] As the costume was polyester, your guess falls by the wayside, I'm afraid. Not a bad effort, but completely off the mark :-)
[Kim] Human? NO
Is the Animal alive?
[Rosie] Live animal? NO
Is it edible?
[GIII] Edible? NO
Does the whole thing occur naturally?
Part of an animal, eg fur?
[Kim] A natural occurrence? NO
[Rosie] Fur-esque? YES *Applause*
An item of clothing?
[Rosie] Confirmation that I was only referring to the animal element when answering your last question.
[Raak] Item of clothing? NO
Is bone involved?
[Raak] Bone involved? Not to my knowledge.
Contains leather?
[Rosie] Contains leather? YES *Some applause*
Can you put things into it?
[Kim] Can things be put into it? YES
A HAND-baaag?
A wallet?
A suitcase?
A leather tankard?
[Rosie] Handbag? NO
[GIII] Wallet? NO
[nights] suitcase? NO
[Raak] Leather tankard? NO
A large object, not normally moved?
[Rosie] Two questions for the price of one! A large object? YES Not normally moved? NO
Is it a piece of luggage?
[Raak] Piece of luggage? NO
Is it a piece of furniture?
An elephant's foot umbrella stand?
[Chalky] Piece of furniture? NO
[INJ] Nellie's brollies? NO
Used for transport?
A pair of clown shoes?
[INJ] Used for transport? YES *Loud applause*
[Raak] clown shoes? NO
Part of a means of transport?
[Rosie] Part of a means of transport? NO
A motor car?
A saddle?
A type of carriage?
A Surrey with a Fringe on Top?
Forgive the simulpost, but that was what I was actually thinking of.
[Chalky] A motor car? YES *More loud applause*
[Raak] Saddle? NO, see above
[INJ] Carriage or song from Oklahoma!? NO, see above
Are we trying to guess the make and model?
A Rolls Royce?
No, damn it. Please ignore the previous and replace with "A Morgan". Ta.
[Chalky] Make & Model? Yes please :-) *more applause*
[Dujon] Moggie? NO
[INJ] Good grief. I had been planning (since before this round began) "Surrey with a Fringe on Top" as my next AVMA subject.
Still in production?
English?
/British?
[INJ] In production? YES
[GIII] English/British? Hmmmm...British-built, but not owned (any more) *Audience gasps at how much information the usually-tight-lipped Phil is giving away*
Mini?
Is this a car that you own?
What me? Nosey?
[GIII] Mini? NO
[Chalky] My car? NO *Laughter from the audience*
Is it a single, specific car?
Luxury/High performance?
Yeah, yeah, I know that's two questions.
[Raak] single, specific car? NO, presuming you mean something like "Chitty Chitty Bang Bang" or "John Major's Nova", otherwise see Chalky's penultimate question.
[INJ] Luxury/high performance? YES on both counts *a little more applause*
Soft-top/convertible?
[GIII] Convertible? YES *a bit more applause*
Is it a Chevrolet (yes, the make them) Corvette?
[Red Wolf] Chevvy? NO, see Graham III's third last question.
Is it an Aston Martin DB9?
[Phil] Graham III's last question was if it was a soft-top/convertible. Corvettes do have that option, they are luxury and high performance, at which they are only beaten out by the Dodge Viper (flames to come from that, I'm sure). Even then, a 'Vette is still preferred.

The issue comes in that I forgot the British point 3 questions ago. See new guess above.

[RW] DB9? Fraid not, even though a friend of mine has one...the lucky (rich) swine. Btw, if you look closely, you'll see that I said "third last question" :-)
Bentley Continental GTC?
[GIII] Bentley? NO
Rolls Royce drophead coupe?
[GIII] Not a Roller either - not quite that de luxe
Is it an Aston Martin?
I admit, I missed that and can be blind at times. Forgive me, all. The logic behind the above question: [Phil] said that it wasn't the DB9, then that it wasn't a Bentley or a Rolls, but he never specifically said it wasn't an AM. So, it isn't as dumb a question as it might seem... I hope...
[RW} Nope, it's not any kind of Aston Martin.
Is it a Lotus of some kind?
I'm running out of marques. I am also struggling to find a niche for Lotus in the luxury class of vehicles.
[Dujon] Not a Lotus either. It's a very well known make of car, worldwide.
Bentley?
[Raak] Not a Bentley. Maybe my idea of luxury/high performance is not as high-spec as everyone else's, but the on-the-road price is about £70k
BMW 6-series convertible?
MG - Rover?
Jaguar?
[GIII] BMW? NO
[Chalky] MG-Rover? NO
[INJ] Jaguar? YES, dagnammit, YES! *rapturous applause dies off rapidly as audience remembers that the model is required too*
Jaguar XK 4.2 convertible
Well I bet there's an 'X' in there somewhere
Jaguar XK 4.2L convertible
Just a cheeky pedant's guess ;-)
Jaguar XKR 4.2L supercharged convertible
Although a more serious guess just to make sure all of the bases are covered ;-)
[INJ] Not that one
[GIII] Not that one either
[GIII take 2] YES, that one!
Gosh. That was exciting. well played GIIIIIIII
It was almost as exciting as a Reese's Peanut Butter Cup.
Goodness me, well there's a turn-up for the books. Let's try something Abstract.
Altogether now... a Human Construct?
Anarcho-syndicalism?
Come on, let's keep in time.
[Projoy] If by that you mean something dreamt up by a human being, then YES.
[Kim] Unionised chaos? NO
Does it begin with a 'P'?
Well, if Kim is going to steal my lines, I'll just have to take TUJ's
Did the idea originate before 1900?
[INJ] P? Ah, NO [Projoy] pre-1900? YES
Musical?
[Raak] YES! *applause*.
European?
After 1700?
[Kim] No
[Projoy] No
Is it American?
Prepare for a SPAM of 3
Is it British?
Is it Asian?
[Red Wolf 1] The USA didn't exist before 1700.
[Red Wolf 2] See above
[Red Wolf 3] NO.
A scale?
[Rosie] Interesting, but NO.
A particular piece of music?
[GIII] The Americas have been around for 100 million years or so, though.
Is it anything to do with North African drum rhythms?
[GIII] Sorry, I missed those... The Europeans have had records of the American continents, though, since the 11th century, thanks to the Vikings, and have been visited since about the 6th century, thanks to the Celts. American Indian music is noteworthy.
Is it specific to any continent?
A type of singing, chanting or other non-instrumental sound?
[CdM] Particular piece? YES
[CdM] To say yes to it being American would have been misleading. The Americas have existed for a very long time, however in common parlance 'America' means nothing but the USA.
[Red Wolf] Drumming? NO
[Projoy] YES, though see CdM's question above.
[Rosie] See answer to CdM.
But is it, as Rosie asks, an exclusively vocal piece?
[Projoy] It is performed as such now, though it was probably performed with instruments originally.
So, it originated in Africa?
(just to rule out Australasia/Oceania)
Wimoweh?
[Projoy] NO (you might want to look at my comment to CdM)
[Rosie] NO
Is it a Russian piece of music?
Latin American?
[Chalky] Russki? NO [Rosie] Latino? YES! *warm applause from the audience*
From before 1500?
An accompaniment to a dance?
La Folia?
does it begin with a 'w'?
Does it begin with a vowel?
Does it begin with anything?
Sorry, got called away...
[Projoy] No
[Rosie] No
[Raak] No
[Chalky] No and No, [CdM] YES!
[all] Apologies for the delay caused by a work and Christmas combo. I would suggest a line of questioning along the lines of who might have written it. Then Wikipedia will be of massive help...
Does it begin on the first beat of the bar?
[Rosie] In so far as there would have been bars (i.e. it begins on a stressed note), YES.
Is it considered the work of one author?
[Projoy] YES
A piece of sacred music?
[Raak] YES! *applause*
A masterpiece of Mexican polyphony?
[Raak] Masterpiece? Subjective of course, and not on the disc of that name. Mexican Polyphony? YES! *audience applauds, excited discussion*
Juan Gutiérrez de Padilla
(he only has 700 surviving pieces, so it should be easy to narrow it down if it is him)
[Projoy] YES! *applause*
The Missa ego flos campi
(or, in English, the absent selfhood of effeminate Flossie)
A la xácara xacarilla?
(Or in English, "To the Batmobile!")
[Raak] Thwack! Kapow! No, Robin.
Projoy: YES! The exact words on the card! *The audience go wild and bleat with delight*.
Well, that was a stroke. I'm much too ill at the moment to set one and remember it later, so perhaps I could defer to someone else? Raak, maybe?
Get well soon PJ x
Get well soon! Ok, if I'm on, then the next one is MINERAL.
Human-made?
Not human-made.
Unique?
[Projoy] Best of health to you!
Not unique.
A geographical feature?
Not a geographical feature.
A substance?
Not necessarily psychoactive.
Not a substance.
Bigger than a phonebox?
Feeling thick again - never heard of de Padilla or his work :-(
Found in caves?
[Phil] Apologies for that - it was a bit obscure, but I thought it was hunt-downable, even if you hadn't heard of the composer in the first place. He's not well known outside the world of choral music, but worth exploring if you like the genre.
[Phil] Could be larger or smaller than a phonebox.
[Graham] Not found in caves.
The name of a continuous substance - e.g. "rock"?
[GIII/Phil] It was definitely huntdownable, since I'd never heard of him/it either until I googled "Mexican Polyphony". :)
A household object?
[Projoy] Not the name of a substance.
[irach] Not a household object.
Connected with weather?
[Rosie] It could well be connected with the weather.
Is it liquid?
[GIII/Projoy] I'm sure I could've found the answer if I'd tried (which I didn't) - I just felt thick that I'd never heard of him.
A flood?
[Phil] Not liquid, hence...
[Rosie] Not a flood.
Is it normally a gas in the atmosphere?
[RW] Not a gas in the atmosphere.
A gas to be found in outer space?
Snow in some form?
[Projoy] Not a gas to be found anywhere.
[Rosie] Not any form of snow.
Is it solid?
[Phil] YES, solid.
Is this found all over the world?
PJ] Hope you're feeling better
[I] Not found all over the world. Not at all!
A meteorite?
Volcanic origin?
[Phil] *applause* Not a meteorite.
[Rosie] Not volcanic.
Something of non-terrestrial origin?
An asteroid, perhaps?
[Phil] *Cheers and more cheering* Non-terrestrial, yes, and an asteroid.
Is it a single object of uncertain size? (cf phonebox)
[CdM] Not a single object.
Tectites?
[Rosie] Not tectites.
Minor Planets?
[Phil] Is that different from an asteroid?
[Phil] If "minor planets" is a subset of asteroids, it's the wrong subset.
A meteor?
C-type Asteroids?
[Rosie] *excited murmurs* Not a meteor.
[Projoy] Not C-type.
Are they found as trojan asteroids?
Are they found as belt asteroids?
Are they M-type asteroids?
I know, bad form for three questions...
[RW] None of them are trojans.
[RW] I'm not sure if they count as belt asteroids or not.
[RW] Not M-type, although individual examples might or might not be.
The moons of Jupiter?
[Chalky] Not the moons of Jupiter. Asteroids, remember.
Members of a particular asteroid family?
NEAs (Near Earth Asteroids)?
Hilda asteroids?
[I] (pause to google the precise definition of an asteroid family) No. Hence...
[C] Hilda Ogden? No.
[P] *loud applause* Yes, they are all NEAs (but not all NEAs are of this particular type).
An Amor-type object?
Chanson d'Amor
PHAs (Potentially Hazardous Asteroids)?
[Phil] *more applause* They are indeed potentially hazardous, but that is not quite the definition of the class on the card.
Apollo Asteroids?
[Phil] Not the Apollos.
Ahem - an Amor-type object?
Aten-type?
Going to have to dig deeper if it's not one of those three.
[Phil] Doesn't begin with A.
[Phil] [Rosie & Phil]
An extinct comet?
[I] Not an extinct comet.
The earth's moons?
[Phil] Not the earth's moons (I thought we only had one, unless Cruithne and the dust clouds at the Trojan points count).
Damocloids?
Despite the question mark - that really was me :-)
Earth-crossing asteroids?
[Chalky] Haemorrhoids on the point of fatally bursting? No.
[Rosie] (An asteroid crashes into the theatre, vaporising everything for twenty miles in every direction and throwing up enough dust to begin an ice age. A million years later intelligent cockroaches emerge to build a new world.) Bullseye!
Oh drat! Aten + Appollo = Earth-crossers...so near, and yet so far. Still, I've learnt more about asteroids in the last two days, than in the previous 40 years.
(Phil) Good heavens, are you 40?
This one is ABSTRACT, with ANIMAL connections. (Not cockroaches with HNC Building Practice).
[Rosie] Yes - and so is Mrs Phil on Saturday.
Is the animal connection human?
(Duj) Human it is.
Is it, therefore, a human construct?
(Projoy) Not strictly a deliberate construct but an off-the-cuff answer would be YES.
Would the abstract then be something which humans learned rather than invented?
(Dujon) You could certainly say that. *applause*
Mathematics-related?
(CdM) Nothing to do with maths.
Was it discovered by scientists?
(Raak) Not discovered by scientists.
Does this have to do with the skies?
By that I mean anything above terra firma.
(Dujon) Nothing to do with the skies.
Is there a religious connection?
(Quendalon) No religious connection at all.
Is this a state of mind?
(Chalky) Not a state of mind.
Is it connected to language?
(Chalky) *prolonged applause* It certainly is.
Is it A language?
[Just me an' you at the mo, Rosers]
(Chalky) Not A Language *some scattered applause*
Keep 'em coming!
A 'part' of language?
I'm trying Rosie - have even done a pub quiz [which we won - wahay] and come back....[Where IS everyone?]
(Chalky) Yes. *more vigorous applause*. (I wish you'd put a comma after your first two words because it reminds me that I haven't quite got the stamina I had 30 yrs ago.)
Specific to the English language?
A smart-arse reply?
(CdM) Not specific to the English language.
(Irouléguy) Try again. :-)
A grammatical principle?
Onomatopoeia?
(Graham III) Not a grammatical principle.
(Quendalon) Not onomatopoeia.

A different aspect of language needs to be considered.

Poetry?
Is it to do with writing?
Storytelling?
(Bigsmith) Not poetry.
(Red Wolf) Definitely nothing to do with writing.
(Graham III) Not storytelling.
Is it usually spoken (rather than written)?
Are we seeking some form of cant?
An accent?
A dialect?
Is it a style of language (e.g. sarcasm)?
(Iroluléguy) Yes.
(Dujon) Not cant.
(CdM) Yes! *vigorous applause* Not quite the words on the card.
(Tshauki) Not really, but *some applause*
(Phil) Not a style of language.
(Irg) You know who I mean. Dreadful sorry.
Received Pronunciation?
No, wait, it's not specific to English, is it...
A foreign accent?
Does this occur in all languages?
(CdM-1)*audience laughter* No!
(CdM-2) Not foreign.
(Irouléguy) Almost certainly every language has this.
An idiolect?
Slang?
An ecolect?
A regional accent?
Ayup, chuck, someone's gorrit. A REGIONAL ACCENT it is, and CHALKY is the winner!
By 'eck - am reet choofed

Thanks Mr Rosie.
I shall now gleefully plunge into my chairpersonship with a tantalising
A B S T R A C T / M I N E R A L with A N I M A L connections ......

The Lascaux paintings?
Is the way the subject is formatted on the laser scoreboard significant?
[Rosie] Bzzzzzt Repetition!
Huh. I don't know what went wrong there...
[Raak] Cave scribblings? NO
[INJ] Notable display? NO

[CdM - was that meant to be a link to a similar subject for guessing - a couple of years back?]
Is the animal connection human?
[Kim] Human? YES
Something inhabited by humans?
Is it a work of art?
A building?
[Quendalon] Inhabited by peeps? NO
[Raak] A work of art? NO ]
[Rosie] Building? NO
A one-word answer?
[Tuj] One word? YES
Unique?
Would this, Chalky, be a construction variously referred to as a monument/astronomical observatory/religious site?
[Quendalon] One of a kind? NO
[Dujon] Well now, Duj - now I have interpreted the thrust of your question - I feel I can quite categorically reply IN THE NEGATIVE :-)
Graffiti?
Specific to a particular culture?
[Chalky] Yes. Rosie set exactly the same subject a while back. Together with Raak's repetition of "alarm clock", this sets me wondering if the time is coming to put this game to rest awhile.
(Also, pace Rosie's answer, I'm prepared to bet that some of the Papua New Guinea languages do not have regional accents!)
[Rosie] Graffiti? NO but ...*murmers from audience*
[CdM] Culturally specific? NO

Re: this game. Correct me if I'm wrong, but is it the only really competitive guessing game over the 3 servers? Also it's a flagship game for MC5, is genuinely mind-expanding and happens to be a personal favourite. So I would hate to see it go. However, if others feel the same, I would naturally, go with the majority. :-)
[Chalky] That was more of a random musing than a vote. I love this game as well, but it is striking that people are forgetting the subjects that they themselves have set in the past.
Poetry?
[Phil] Poetry? NO

[CdM] An indicator that regardless of the trillions of potential choices, l'idée fixe has more power?
An inscription of some kind?
(CdM) re - PNG local accents - I won't argue (for once).
[Rosie] Inscription? NO
Is this a natural phenomenon?
[Rosie] A natural phenomenon? NO
Is it symbolic?
[Rosie] Symbolic? No - not really. In fact - NO
Does it involve words?
[Graham III] Involve words? NO
Does it have to do with sound?
[Red Wolf] To do with sound? NO
is the abstract/mineral something built or constructed?
Is the mineral metal?
Peak Oil?
Anything to do with transport?
Nit necessarily steam trains.
BUGGER! Nit = not.
[Irouléguy] Built or constructed? SORT OF - but, then again, not in the way I think you mean
[Phil] Mineral metal? NO ... it could be but I wouldn't like to mislead you.
[Raak] Peak Oil? NO
[Rosie] Transport? NIET
Is it bigger than a house?
[Raak] Bigger than a house? NO ... not normally, although it could be but I wouldn't like to mislead you :-)
Is it ornamental?
Is it conceptual?
An artistic representation of some kind?
[Raak] Ornamental? NO
[Graham III] Conceptual? Er ... NO
[Irouléguy] Artistic representation of some kind? NO
Could I buy one of these?
Would you see one of these in a town?
Is it a, you know, um, whaddyacallit, humanly constructed thingy?
Would you want one of these?
[Raak] Would you buy one of these? NO
[Rosie] Seen in town? YES
[CdM] Humanly constructeded? OH YES *audience applauses mainly because there's been precious little to get excited about so far in this game*
[Graham III] Would you want one of these? You might ... but you might not
add/ Talking of which, I'm wondering why the audience didn't hum and ha a bit when I answered Irouléguy's last question. They were obviously asleep. Apologs
Billboard advertising?
[Graham III] Billboard advertising? NO
A monument?
[Raak] A monument? NO

Hint: This is definitely ABSTRACT with MINERAL to help it on its way. The human connection means it's 'constructed' and used by humans rather than beasties.
A congeries of mineral objects?
Fictional?
Some kind of open space?
[Quendalon] A congeries [a collection?] NO
[Raak] Fictional? NO
[Rosie] Some kind of open space? NO ... but there is a kind of connection with open space.
Is it a square or a plaza?
I consider them to be the same thing.
Visually appealing?
Can it be discerned by any of the five senses?
Scrap that -- if you can see it in a town, the answer is presumably yes.
[Red Wolf] Is it a square or a plaza? NOT IN THE WAY YOU MEAN ... but you are, quite possibly unwittingly, getting closer to the structure of this thing
[CdM] 5 sensage? I'm replying because the 'in a town' answer could equally have been an 'out-of-town' answer and it would be unfair to mislead you. The answer is, however, YES :-)

Second hint: Just look back at some of the questions you have all asked when presented with an ABSTRACT +.
sorry - missed your question
[Rosie] Visually appealing? It could be , but not really relevant at this stage of the game
Is there any connection to sport?
Does it commonly contain 90-degree angles?
An empty plinth?
Is it entertaining?
[CdM] Sport connection? Ah. Tricky one to answer. Strictly speaking, NO ... but this line of questioning may be productive * audience nearly claps*
[Juxtapose] 90 - degree angles? YES! *audience claps*
[Raak] An empty plinth? NO
[Graham III] Entertaining? YES *audience now getting very vocal*
Are tickets sold for it?
Are we talking about the surface on which a particular activity is performed?
[Raak] Tickets sold? NO not usually :-)
[Bigsmith] Are we talking surface/activity? Guessing the mineral part will probably lead to the answer, so YES
A 147 break?
[CdM] 147 break? NO
A bull ring?
[Graham III] A bull ring? NO

Re: last 2 questions. Remember - tickets are NOT sold for this particular thing.
Hmm, perhaps that doesn't have too much to do with 90 degree angles...
Parkour?
[Graham III] Parkour? NO
Hopscotch?
Hurrah hurrah
Irouléguy chucks his stone into the square and hops to victory. HOPSCOTCH is the very word on the card. Well played!
Very well done Irouléguy. I was barking up totally the wrong tree for most of that.
Thanks, G III. My thanks go to Juxtapose - it was the 90 degree angle question that helped me put it together. Throwing the jack again, we next have an ABSTRACT, with ANIMAL and VEGETABLE connections (and a few MINERALS, strictly speaking, but they're not helpful).
Animal human?
Rosie] Animal human? Yes
Is it a human construct that begins with P?
An activity?
CdM - Is it a human construct that begins with P? No (to both)
Rosie - An activity? *hum of discussion in the audience* Ye-es - although there's a case for saying that 'no' is also a valid answer.
Growth?
CdM - Growth? No
Is the vegetable paper?
A process?
Does this involve people meeting each other?
Is it a place?
One installation of a new home PC later - Vista's very funny looking, but I forgive it everything I'm likely to discover for how fast it loads. Questions, questions...

Raak - Is the vegetable paper? Paper isn't the primary vegetable, but it is involved (or not)
Quendalon - A process? For some people, yes
Rosie - Does this involve people meeting each other? It could do (though the opposite could also be true)
Chalky - Is it a place? No
Does it involve correspondence?
Rosie] Does it involve correspondence? It could do, but I think it usually doesn't.
Is it a game?
Raak] Is it a game? No
Related to language?
Quendalon] Related to language? No
A learning process?
Rosie] A learning process? Yes, it is - though it's not the most obvious description of this.
Requires more than one person?
Quendalon] Requires more than one person? No - though it's argued that people doing it together will have a better experience.

Oh, and re-reading the above, there are no sexual connotations - the answer is perfectly SFW.
Is there a musical connection?
Making marks on a surface?
Are computers involved?
Is it a social process (ie, concerned with the development or conduct of social relationships)?
Chalky] Is there a musical connection? No
Quendalon - Making marks on a surface? No
Raak - Are computers involved? No
Kim] Is it a social process (ie, concerned with the development or conduct of social relationships)? *stirrings in the audience* If successful, it will almost certainly change the development and conduct of social relationships. And you could describe it as a social process, for particular definitions of 'social'.
Counselling?
Graham III] Counselling? *more stirrings in the audience* No, though counselling can often help with this.
Divorce?
is this something that happens to people?
Rehabilitation?
An AA meeting?
Juxtapose] Divorce? No - see the answer to Quendalon's last question but one.
Chalky] Is this something that happens to people? *applause* Good question - no, it's something that people do.
Rosie] Rehabilitation? No
Raak - An AA meeting? *applause and a few cheers from the audience* No, but nearer than any previous guess
Teetotalism?
Cigarette addiction?
Are these people trying to come to terms with a problem they have?
Raak] Teetotalism? *shudder* No
Graham III] Cigarette addiction? *cheering from the audience* So close!
Rosie] Are these people trying to come to terms with a problem they have? *more cheering - the audience pick up their bags and coats preparing for the end* YES!
A visit to the Doctor?
Chalky] A visit to the Doctor? *the audience put their bags down* No
Losing weight?
Not to lurk, but...
The answer's giving up smoking.
A lurky guess - Tuj wins! Those are the exact words on the card. One low-tar, filter-tipped baton passed over.
[Tuj] Does it begin with P?
[CdM]

The very words on the card!

*hands over baton*
Ha!
O-kay... This one is ANIMAL.
Is it a humang beeing?
A human being? Not yet. *appreciative amused murmurs from the audience*
[Tuj] I'm now worried about my victory. Were the words on the card "Does it begin with P?" or "Does it begin with P"? If the latter, then fine. But if the former, am I right in thinking your answer should have just been no, since I didn't ask "Does it begin with P??"?
A stem cell?
The next Dalai Lama?
Stem cell? No.
Antereincarnate? No.
An embryo?
An embryo? No. Examine your assumptions.
A humanoid?
Edible?
[CdM] To be honest, you had the question in before I thought of anything, but it amused me so much it merited that =)
A humanoid? No.
Edible? Strictly speaking, yes, but highly unlikely to be eaten!
A primate?
Is it unique?
My signature question.
A mammal?
Fictional?
Hang on...
Does it begin with a P?
A spermatazoon?
A body part or product?
A primate? No (but examine your assumptions)
Is it unique? That depends somewhat on your definition of "it", but I think the least misleading answer is No.
A mammal? No (but examine your assumptions)
Fictional? No.
Begin with P? No. Spermatazoon? No.
Body part or product? No.
Is this a collection of things?
Collection of things? Well, "collection" is not the usual word, and nor is "things", but Yes. *some audience applause*
The genome?
NB - "Not yet" a human being = a teenager.
Well, my wife is due home shortly so I'll back out of here for a few hours. I do ever so hope that she has that glint in her eyes.
Well, my wife is due home shortly so I'll back out of here for a few hours. I do ever so hope that she has that glint in her eyes.? No.
(but an interesting guess, it has to be said)
Is it an egg?
A dismembered corpse?
Shoal of fish?
I take it wasn't anything to do with Rosie's genome?
Is it alive?
Genome? No.
Teenager? No. *laughter* Sorry. I know I already composed those answers, but I must have previewed and failed to post.
Egg? No.
Dismembered corpse? No,
Shoal of fish? No.
Alive? Yes.*applause, as much from relief than anything else*
I say again, you need to examine your assumptions. Some of my answers have involved very careful parsing of the questions.
A troop of monkeys?
Troop of monkeys? No. *smattering of applause, none the less*
Dr. Frankenstein's collection of spare parts?
Just clarifying the answer to Chalky's initial question:
Is this thing normally expected to become a human being?
*Before he can even answer, the audience applauds the decision to return to Chalky's question*
Normally expected to become a human being? The thing described by the words of the cards is definitely* expected to become a human being.

*There are imaginable ways in which this might not happen, but they are highly improbable.
Is the answer humorous?
a chromasome?
or even a chromosome?
The glint in a father's eye?
I suppose that is abstract really, but might at least clarify whether I'm thinking in the right ballpark.
Humorous? Not at all. If anything, the opposite.
Chromuhsome? No.
The glint in Dujon's wife's eye? No. And not even the right ballgame, never mind the right ballpark.
Dare I say: Examine your assumptions?
Posterity?
Posterity? No. *smattering of applause*
The Second Coming?
Descendents?
Second coming? No.
Descendants? No. It was only a smattering of applause!
attempting a summary

ANIMAL
IT IS NOT a stem cell, the next Dalai Lama, an embryo, a humanoid, a primate, unique, a mammal, fictional, a spermatozoon, a body part or product, the genome, a teenager, an egg, a dismembered corpse, a shoal of fish, a troop of monkeys [drew some applause], humorous, a chromosome, glint in a father's eye, posterity [drew a smattering of applause], the second coming, descendants, Dujon backing out of here for a few hours hoping for a wifely eye glint.

IT IS: definitely expected to become a human being, edible [but unlikely to be eaten], a collection of things [but 'collection' and 'things' are not the best words to use], alive [drew relieved applause],
Are there more than 100 of these?
And presumably not Frankenstein's stack of spare parts, asked earlier?
Would you need a microscope to see it?
Are there more than 100 of these? No. *substantial applause*
BRAAAIIIINNNSS? No.
Would you need a microscope? No.
Chalky's summary is accurate but must be, I will remind you, carefully parsed. And perhaps it should also include the answer to her first question: It is not yet a human being.
Do we need to examine the definition of 'human being' in order to make some progress with your little cunundrum?
Does it exist at the present time?
A human clone?
Do we need to examine definition of human being? No. That's not where your confusion lies.
Exist at present time? Yes. *some applause*
Clone? No.
Is it the subject of any political controversy?
Is sex involved?
Would the answer to any of the things this is NOT, in Chalky's list, have been yes, if the question had been posed in the plural?
e.g. more than one mammal.
Subject of political controversy? It has a connection to political controversy but is not to my knowledge the subject of pc.
Sex? No.
Yes if plural? Yes! *substantial and relieved applause*
Siamese twins?
Siamese twins? No.
Is this a tribe?
... and I think it has been fairly obvious for some time that the answer is in the plural - just look at the yesses.
And yet it becomes a human being.
...and isn't a human body part or product. Hmm.
Well, that disqualifies "dismembered corpses"... and you do not need a microscope to see it, which disqualifies stem cells, chromosomes, and a couple others... Is it pre-natal?
A tribe? No.
Prenatal? No.
*(The audience is starting to enjoy this)*
Could you fit it into a telephone box?
That is, the whole group of whatever they are, all in to a single telephone box.
Vanishing twins?
Are these mostly found on one continent?
Are there less than 50 of these?
Phittable in a phonebox? Not yet.
Vanishing twins? No.
Mostly found on one continent? Mostly, yes. *applause*
<50? Yes.
Are they used in scientific research?
Pigs bred for the purpose of human organ transplants?
Do they exist right now?
Is the continent they are mostly found on Asia?
Are there less than 12 of these?
Used in scientific research? No.
Porcine donors? No.
Exist right now? Yes.
Mainly in Asia? No.
<12 No.
The audience, rather belatedly, is thinking that Chalky's third-to-last question might have indicated a promising line of thinking on her part. Or it might not.
Can they talk?
Can they talk? Yes. (It's conceivable that perhaps one or two of them in fact can't, but I have no special reason to think that is true.)
Continent: North America?
North America? No.
Are they human right now?
An example of conjoined twins?
Are they particularly small?
Is this the group of 'nearly humans' but 'not quite yet' that have been in the news lately?
... which is what I was aiming for when I asked about a 'tribe'?
Human right now? Yes. *audience applauds, more out of relief than anything else*
Conjoined twins? No.
Particularly small? No.
Nearly but not quite human? No. *The audience now thinks they were in fact correct not to applaud Chalky's earlier question*
Maybe it is time to look once again at your assumptions. You are all missing something rather obvious.
Does this number of humans-right-now have a collective name?
Are these human-right-now related?
Is this a collection of people who will eventually be just one, the rest having been excluded from the group in some manner, such as by dying or being knocked out of a competition?
Collective name? That's actually a little tricky to answer. I think the best answer is No. However, the five words on the card might be thought of as a collective name for these humans right now.
Are they related? No.
Is this a collection ... competition? YES! *sustained applause*
The participants on Big Brother?
Participants on Big Brother. *audience laughter* No.
The candidates for US President?
Mitt Hussein Rodham McCain? No.
Are the members of this group members because of their own choices/actions?
Members through choice or action? I suppose that some choices influenced their member ship of this group, but the best answer is definitely No.
Is there a definite date, already known, by which time only one will be left?
Definite known date by which time only one will be left? No.
Further to Raak's earlier question, is the point at which there will be only one member of the group remaining determined by the death of the other members of the group?
A tontine?
Is 'survivor' one of the words on the card?
Five words... The members of my [CdM's] family?
Point at which one left determined by death of others? Yes. *applause*
Tontine? No.
Is 'survivor" one of the words? No, but "surviving" is. *applause*
Kind Hearts and Coronets? No.
Speakers of a particular language?
People in line to inherit a throne/kingdom?
Oh - and continent: Europe?
Speakers of a particular language? No.
Kind Hearts and Coronets? No.
Continent = Europe? Yes, although my earlier agreement that they were "mostly to be found on one continent" was in fact slightly inaccurate. A better statement is that the majority are to be found in Europe.
Surviving Veterans of World War I?
Last surviving veteran of WWI?
... just to cover the other possibility :-)
We have a winner! "Surviving World War One Veterans" were the words on the card. Looking back, Chalky's first ("a human being?") question, which I couldn't resist answering as "not yet", led you all to run after a large number of untamed waterfowl. I was surprised to discover that there are still at least 15 (plus maybe another 8 depending on exactly how you count) living WWI vets.

One batonet handed carefully to Chalky.
* who not-so-carefully wallops CdM's backside with it*
... and if I'd have missed out the indefinite article in that question, who knows how you might have replied ;-)
Will post a new one at 0730 GMT
... late on parade
Next up - A B S T R A C T with Animal connections
Are the animal connections human?
[Graham III] Animal connections Human? Not yet ......

Only joking :-) YES
A specific human?
A mythical character?
A fictional character?
[Irouléguy] Specific human? NO
[Kim] Mythical character? NO
[Bigsmith} A fictional character? NO
To do with mathematics?
A human characteristic?
[Raak] To do with mathematics? NO - not really
[Rosers] A human characteristic? NO
Is the animal connection a reference to a human body part or parts?
Is this an activity undertaken by human beings?
[CdM] Referencing human body or body parts? Strictly speaking ... YES [see next reply]
[Graham III] Activity? YES! *applause*
Is it sporting?
[Graham III] Sporting? Some may find it sporting, some may not :-)
Sex?
[irach] Sex? Not sex per se - but some may find it sexy and some may not :-)
Is it a particularly energetic activity?
[Raak] Particularly energetic? NO. Good question.
Is it mostly carried out by one person at a time?
Some form of research?
[Graham III] Mostly by one person at a time? Not sure of the stats - if indeed there are any. Can be one, can be two, can be three, can be four, can be .... am I boring you?
[Dujon] Research? NO
Scrabble?
Is it yoga?
[Graham III] Scrabble? NO
[Kim] Yoga? NO ... but *audience cheers with considerable gusto*
Tai Chi?
Pilates?
Is it essentially play?
sorry for delay - had to do hospital visiting

Wow - an excellent deduction Raak and spot on. Tai Chi it is. I am a huge fan of this 'soft' martial art.

*hands over baton in slow motion stylee*
*grasps swallow's tail, waves hands like birds, repulses monkey, weaves with shuttles, and greets fair lady*

The next is MINERAL, with VEGETABLE connections.

Is it manmade?
Is it used in a culinary capacity?
Is it commonly referred to in the singular?
Is it edible?
[Raak] repulsing monkey is my favourite move :-)
Is it a tool?
Does it begin with P?
Crude oil?
Marmalade? No.
Not culinary.
You can have just one of these.
Not edible.
Tool? It performs a function.
Does not begin with P.
Not crude oil.
Are the vegetable connections wood?
Man-made?
.. assuming Marmalade reply wasn't meant in jest :-)
Wooden connections? Sort of.
Oops, just my eyes going funny. IS man-made.
vegetable = Paper?
Yes, paper. Speaking of which, this thing could fairly be said to have ABSTRACT connections as well.
Is it bigger than a toaster?
Anything to do with a creative activity?
Bigger than a toaster.
Has to do with a creative activity. *sounds of the audience approving*
Is the abstract connection writing?
[Q] Writing? Narrowly understood, no, broadly understood, yes.
is one of the words actually "paper"?
A keyboard?
[J] "Paper" does not appear on the card.
[R] Not a keyboartd.
Chinese scroll-painting?
[I] Not Chinese scroll-painting.
Anything to do with musical notation?
[G3] Nothing to do with musical notation. At least, not specifically.
Rubbings?
[Q] Not rubbings.
Ink?
[Rosie] Not ink. *the audience once more make approving sounds*
Related to holes?
Is there paint (or a coloring medium) involved with its typical use?
[Q] No holes.
[J] Yes, a colouring medium.
Is it unique?
The Blue Pencil?
[Tuj] Not unique.
[Rosie] Not the Blue Pencil.
Is it a paintbrush?
Is it one particular colo(u)r?
[nights] Not a paintbrush.
[CdM] Not a particular colour.
You're all thinking too small.
could you fit it through a door?
[J] You can't fit it through a door. Well, an ordinary door.
Would this be a man-made construction which in turn produces something?
The 'You can have just one of these' comment has me flummoxed though.
[Dujon] Yes, a man-made construction producing something. "One of these" -- well, you can have one, or more than one, so answering Juxtapose's question, it can be referred to in the singular or the plural.
a kiln?
Not a kiln.
A photocopier?
That's probably a bum shot.
Not a photocopier (but the audience have started to look cheerful again).
A printing press?
Bingo! A Printing Press.
Yay! An answer that was a good combination of sufficiently uncommon, yet not randomly obtuse giving me a chance there. For the next one we have:
MINERAL AND VEGETABLE (normally).
Edible?
[Raak] Yummy? NO.
A geographical feature?
Man-made?
Is it unique?
[INJ] Geographical? NO [Rosie] Man-made? YES *light applause from the audience* [Quendalon] Unique? NO
Metal and wood?
Mood/Wetal? YES, these are both normally involved.
is it found on/near streets?
Would this normally (or, at least often) be associated with visual art?
Would this normally (or, at least often) be associated with music?
Is it a tool?
Is it a building?
[Juxtapose] Street dweller? NO
[Dujon] Art? Normally, NO
[Quendalon] Music? NO, not that I've ever heard of.
[Raak] Tool? NO, not within the definition of Chambers.
[Tuj] Building? NO
Does the metal part consist of fastenings holding the wooden parts together?
[Raak] Fasteners? NOT EXCLUSIVELY
In between the size of a toaster and a phone box?
Toast-box? YES!
Is it a piece of furniture?
[Raak] Furniture? NO in the conventional sense.
A box or container of some kind?
Commonly found in one's home?
[Rosie] Box? NO
[Quendalon] Homebased? YES *applause*.
Does it have any moving parts?
Sorry, I forgot that I was the last one to post. How gauche of me! Please forgive the solecism.
Does it have any moving parts?
Problem solved.
Is it normally found in the same location (e.g. usually in the kitchen)
[Q/J] Moving parts? YES
[INJ] One place? NOT USUALLY (as far as I know about people's homes...)
Would this normally (or, at least often) . . . curse you, Quendalon. ;-)
Does this have hinges?
Commonly found not in one's home?
Would most owners normally own just one of these?
A door?
*suspects Raak has nailed it*
More wood than metal?
(Irg) All my doors have screws. :-)
[Irouléguy] I doubt it's a door, as we've been told it's not found on or near streets.
[Dujon] You're too kind. :)
Grandfather clock?
[Dujon] Hinged? NOT IN THE CONVENTIONAL SENSE
[CdM] Out of house and home? YES, though you may not come across it usually.
[Iguy] Just one? YES
[Raak] Door? NO
[Rosie] Woody? DEPENDS ON YOUR MEASURE AND THE SPECIFIC EXAMPLE. Mine has more wood by volume if that's any help.
[Quendalon] Clock? NOPE.
Is it collapsible?
[Juxtapose] Collapsible? YES *audience excited now*
[GIII] Delectable italicise text, that *approves*=)
A folding ladder / stepladder?
Is the unconventional hinge similar to, say, a piano accordian or bellows?
A Workmate?
[Tuj] Why thank you :-)
[Quendalon] Ladder? NOPE
[Dujon] according? NO
[Raak] Workmate? NO.
A piano?
A panelled screen?
Associated with play?
A deck chair?
Ironing board?
[Rosie 1] NO
[Chalky] NO
[Quendalon] Only if you're very weird
[Rosie 2] NO
[Juxtapose] YES! The very words on the card! *audience goes wild and jumps up and down*. Here, have the baton:
Aa! It's my first time, so be gentle.
Alright, here we go with ABSTRACT, involving multiple ANIMALish themes.
Multiple animals meaning many different species?
[Irouléguy] Many different species? NO.
Is this a 'saying' which references animals?
A characteristic of animals?
[Chalky] a saying? NO, but quite a clever guess.
[Rosie] A characteristic? A case for both sides here, but saying NO will be less misleading.
Are the animals referred to in the plural?
Are the animals human?
[Rosie] plural? Situationally dependent.
[ImNotJohn] human? YES, there is at least one human involved.
is this a tale or a fable or a story-type thingy?
Is this a form of 'art'?
I'm confused by some of the answers here. We have multiple animals, at least one human, but not many different species. So, in the interest of clarifying this:
Do the animalish themes ever involve a non-human animal?
[Chalky] fairy-tale? NO.
[Dujon] Art? NO.
[CdM] Non-human? YES.
Sorry for the confusion. There are human(s) and non-humans involved, but not "many".
Is this the name of a place?
'Old MacDonald had a farm'?
One man and his dog?
Is this fictional?
[J] Nonono, no need for apology; I was just clarifying.
What! 14 hours and NO replies? *grumblegrumblegrumble*
[Chalky]Place name? NO.
[Irouléguy] Old Mac? NO.
[Graham III] Man + dog? NO.
[CdM] Fictional? NO.
[Chalky] 14 hours and no replies? YES.
Connected to entertainment of some kind?
[CdM] Connected to entertainment? NO.
Is there more than one non-human species involved?
Is this the name of a group or society?
A true life story?
Is it connected to farming or animal husbandry generally?
Begins with a P?
What! 16 hours and NO replies?
[Irouléguy] More than one non-human species involved? KIND OF.
[Chalky] Group or society? NO.
[Chalky] A true life story? OFTEN.
[Kim] Farming or animal husbandry? NO. A case might me made for YES by someone trying to throw you off track.
[Tuj] One of the words begins with a P.
Do these true-life stories occur all over the world, or are they geographically specific?
Medical connections? [illness, disease - that type of thing]
Are the animals specifically pets or similar companion animals?
Connected with birth?
Are these animals alive?
What! 17 hou- oh, never mind.
*chuckles*
Is this an emotion?
Is this a BAD thing?
Is this a human construct?
[CdM] All over the world? YES. *audience members start nudging eachother awake*
[Chalky] Medical connections? YES! *excited noises*
[ImNotJohn] pets? NO.
[Quendalon] Connected with birth? NO.
[Chalky] Alive? YES.
[Chalky] emotion? NO.
[Chalky] Bad? Some might say no. I say YES.
[Chalky] Human construct? NO. Now let somebody else ask some.
Animal testing? (of cosmetics, or pharmaceuticals, or, I dunno, airbags or something)
[CdM] Animal testing? NO.
What! 12 hours and no question from Chalky?
Are the non-human animals fish?
Connected with agriculture / animal husbandry?
An anthropomorphization?
[Irouléguy] fish? NO.
[ImNotJohn] agri-husbandry? NO. (see Kim's question above)
[Quendalon] Antrhopomorphization? NO.
Fictional or fiction-related?
[Tuj] Fictitious? NO.
Summary time, and the living is easy
Fish are jumping...

We have an ABSTRACT involving multiple ANIMALish themes.

It is not: a saying (though the guess was described as 'clever'), fictional, art, a place-name, Old MacDonald had a farm, One man and his dog, connected to entertainment, a group or society, geographically specific (this question got applause), pets, connected with birth, an emotion, a human construct, animal testing, connected with agriculture or animal husbandry, an anthropomorphisation, or fictional. And the non-human animals are not fish, but they are alive. They belong to more than one species, but not to 'many' species.

It is: involving at least one human, something that happens all over the world, and with medical connections.

It might be: a true life story, and a bad thing. There may be more than one non-human animal involved (situationally dependent).

The answer includes: a word beginning with 'P'.
Are the non-human animals mostly one species?
Is it a title of something (book/film/etc)?
[Irouléguy] mostly one species? YES.
[Tuj] Title of media? NO.

[Re: Recap] "situationally dependent" was the answer to the following question: "Are the animals referred to in the plural?" The question "More than one non-human species involved?" had the answer "KIND OF", which I stand by.
Does it involve words?
Is it unique?
Is the non-human species visible to the naked eye?
Is it animal testing?
Kim - Is it animal testing? I refer the Honourable Gentleman to the summary above.
[Quendalon] "Does it involve words?" I'm not really sure how to give a yes or no answer to that which would be helpful. It is not word/language-based.
[Tuj] Is it unique? NO.
[Irouléguy] Is the non-human species visible to the naked eye? NO!
A bacterium/virus/etc responsible for a particular disease/medical condition?
[Irouléguy] A bacterium/virus/etc responsible for a particular disease/medical condition? YES.
Is the answer the disease/medical condition?
Feeling greedy - is the animal specifically a virus (as opposed to a bacterium or other thingy)?
[Irouléguy] Is the answer the disease/medical condition? YES.
[Irouléguy] is the animal specifically a virus? YES. *audience begins to gather coats and hats*
Pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis?
Poliomylitis?
The common cold?
Does the disease affect one part of the body specifically?
Just for the sake of satisfying my own pedantry, I feel duty-bound to point out that generally viruses are not considered by most scientists as animals, for example because they are not living things, cannot self-replicate, and don't have a membrane separating themselves from the outside world. But that's probably a debate for another time. And yes I know that Pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis is (a) not a virus, and (b) only theoretical, but it's an amusing word.
[Graham III] Pneumonoultrafragilisticexpialidocious? NO.
[Somebody Else] Poliomylitis? NO.
[Quendalon] The common cold? NO.
[Graham III] Does the disease affect one part of the body specifically? Hmm. As in 'athelete's foot'? NO.
[Pedantry] I know there is some debate, but I did say "animal-ish" not simply "animal", and secondly if I had answered yes or no based on viruses being animals I think it would have been more misleading. I like to consider myself not an evil man.
Bird flu?
Is the disease commonly fatal?
Influenza? The common, non-avian kind?
[Quendalon] Bird flu? NO.
[Irouléguy] Commonly fatal? NO.
[irach] Influenza? NO.
Sexual contact as primary vector of infection?
Is the disease usually known by a colloquial name rather than a formal one?
[Quendalon] STD? NO.
[Irouléguy] A colloquial name? YES. *applause*
Black Death Bubonic Plague?
or any of the Bubonic Plagues?
The dreaded lurgy?
Chicken pox?
[Somebody Else] Assorted plagues bubonic? NO!
[Raak] The dreaded lurgy? NO!
[Quendalon] Chicken pox? SPOT ON! *audience goes wild* Thus the 'multiple animal-ish themes'. Please accept this sterilized and sanitized baton. Well done.
Thank you! It's been a while since I've held the baton. So, let's try:

MINERAL, with ANIMAL connections.
"Tigereye" gemstone?
Man-made?
[irach] Tiger's eye? NO.
[Rosie] Man-made? YES.
Are the animal connections human?
A mousetrap?
A mantrap?
[Rosie] No vegetable as in wood?
[Raak] Animal = human? NO.
[Rosie] Mousetrap? NO.
[Tuj] Mantrap? NO.
Birdcage? La Cages aux Folles?
Is the mineral/one of the minerals glass?
Is it a model of an animal?
Is it a fossil?
[irach] Cage (aux Folles or otherwise)? NO.
[Juxtapose] Is glass involved? OFTEN, after a fashion.
[Raak] Is it a model of an animal? Strictly speaking, NO. *interested murmurs from the audience*
[Kinrah] Fossil? NO.
A representation of an animal or animals?
[Raak] Representation of an animal(s)? NO.
A medical device?
Are the animal connections just one species?
Is it a glass etching of an animal?
Would this be an article manufactured for use on/with/for an animal (e.g. dog collar, cow bell, harness)?
[Rosie] Medical device? NO.
[Irouléguy] Just one species? Tricky, but I think the fairest answer would be NO.
[Kinrah] Glass etching? NO.
[Dujon] For use on/with/for an animal? NO.
Made of metal?
Does a typical Morniverser own one?
[Raak] Is metal involved? YES.
[Rosie] Property of a typical Morningverser? NO. *sardonic laughter from the audience*
Anything to do with farming?
[Rosie] Connected with farming? NO. (One could make a case for YES, but that would undoubtedly be misleading.)
Is the animal part a product of an animal, such as fur or skin?
[Chalky] Contains actual animal parts? NO.

To clarify, there are no organic animal components to speak of; if there were, it would have been MINERAL / ANIMAL. And in the interests of full disclosure, there are occasionally VEGETABLE elements, though pursuing that line of questioning is unlikely to be productive.
A building?
[CdM] A building? NO.
A shotgun?
Y'know, one o' vem Japnese mo'ors.
[Rosie] Shotgun? NO, neither single- or double-barreled.
a geographical feature?
[Chalky] Geography? NO.

On further consideration, [Chalky]'s previous question was incorrectly answered due to an overly narrow reading of it. So, to revisit:

[Chalky] Is the animal connection to a product of an animal? YES.
Leather?
Is it a container?
[Chalky] Leather? NO.
[Raak] Container? YES, although this may be misleading.
A milk bottle?
Would one usually find this in a home?
[Graham III] Milk bottle? NO.
[Chalky] Usually found in a home? NO.
Does this restrict hte movement on animals in any way?
"Of", not "on".
"The", not "hte". I dunno.
[Rosie] Restrict movement of animals? NO.
Time for a recap:

We have a MINERAL with ANIMAL connections.

It is NOT: "Tigereye" gemstone, human animal-ish, a mousetrap, a mantrap, a birdcage, a model or representation of an animal, a fossil, a medical device, owned by a typical Morningverser, connected with farming, made from an animal product, a building, a shotgun, a geographical feature, leather, a milk bottle, found in a typical home, used to restrain animals.

It IS: Man-made, made using metal as a component, connected with an animal product, a container.

It is SOMETIMES: made using glass as a component.

A contestant aroused audience interest when asking if it was a model of an animal.
A contestant aroused audience mockery when asking if a typical Morningverser owned one.
Is the 'Animal Connection' a result of its name (colloquial or otherwise)?
Glasses case?
A cow creamer?
Bigger than a telephone box with a toaster on top?
[Dujon] Animal connection originates from name? NO.
[Software] Glasses case? NO.
[Graham III] Cow creamer? NO.

Clarification/hint: The fact that the subject is a container isn't central to its identity.
[CdM] Bigger than a telephone box? NO.
Does it use a source of power?
[Raak] Uses power? NO.
Does it have artistic pretensions?
[Graham III] Artistic pretentions? YES. *applause*
Is it by Damien Hurst?
[Raak] Damien Hurst? NO.
Does a typical one cost in excess of two thousand pounds sterling ?
[CdM] Typically valued at over £2000? YES.
Faberge egg?
*KA-CHING!*
[irach] YES! (The words on the card are "an authentic Faberge Egg", but that's more than close enough.) Passing over an ovoid, richly bejeweled clockwork baton...
[irach] Are you there? It may be time for someone else to take over here...
All right then, a nice quick ABSTRACT in the meantime.
A human construct?
Begins with a "P"?
I'd just like to point out that this is the first time I have asked this question.
Humanly constructed? Yes.
P-begun? No.
Is it unique?
Is it fictional?
Unique? Yes is the best answer, although there is a case to be made for No.
Fictional? Yes. *applause*
Is the answer a work of fiction?
an apocryphal story?
Connected with politics?
still doesn't understand the concept of "A human concept"...
scratch -cept read -struct
A one word answer?
Work of fiction? Yes *applause*
Apocryphal? No.
Connected with politics? *amused laughter from audience* Some would say yes. Others (perhaps more?) would say no. One reasonable answer is "I don't know". Another is "if you like".
One word answer? No.

[IS,P!] At least as a working definition I take 'human construct' to mean something that requires the human brain for its existence. Most abstract things seem to be human constructs, but not all are. I would say that 'pain', for example, is not a human construct. There are thorny issues when we get into the old debate about whether mathematical issues are created or discovered. Is the following a human construct: on a Euclidean plane, any right-angled triangle has the property that the square on the hypotenuse equals the sum of the squares on the other two sides? I'm not sure.
Religious?
(CdM) The property of plane right-angled triangles that you mention exists regardless of whether humans are aware of it or not. Maybe a better example would have been imaginary numbers which have no physical meaning until humans invented them and ascribed a meaning to them (a frequency, for example) but are a supremely useful mathematical tool.
Written in the last 100 years?
Religious? *more audience laughter*. It is not a religious work, but if you are asking if it has religious connections, I point you to the answer to "connected with politics", above.
Written in last 100 years? Yes.

[Rosie] Well, but there is also something odd about saying the Pythagorean theorem is not a human construct. As I say, the question of whether mathematics is invented or discovered has troubled philosophers of science for a long time, and I don't think it's as straightforward as you suggest, even in this case. Is the number "2" a human construct? But I'm getting out of my depth here, so I'll let the real mathematicians weigh in if they like.
Written in the last 50 years?
(Originally) written in English?
A novel?
Rosie] Isn't the concept of a 'right-angle' a human construct?
Last 50 years? No.
Originally written in English? *audience gasps and starts disputing amongst themselves animatedly* The best answer is clearly no, but a case could be made for yes.
A novel? No.
A poem?
(Primarily) intended for children?
Jabberwocky?
Just a wild stab in the dark...
Scots wha hae wi' Wallace bled?
Speaking of wild stabs...
Seedy M? Where are you?
[Chalky] No, I don't think it's that. :-)
Poem? No.
Kid-intended? *audience laughter*. No.
Jabberwocky? *audience snickersnackering* No.
Scots wha hae? *audience chants "Jon-ny Wil-kin-son, Jon-ny Wil-kin-son* No.
Where am I? Sleeping. I live on the other side of the world from most of you lot, remember.
Is it a work based on another work?
Work based on another work? Another surprisingly difficult question. The best answer is No (corresponding to the best answer to "originally written in English?"), but a case could me made for Yes (corresponding to the case that could be made for "not originally written in English").
Anything to do with pseudoscience?
The Lord of the Rings?
Pseudoscience? Not in any way that I am aware of.
Lord of the Rings? No. (I'm pretty confident that was originally written in English. :-) )
Chalky? Where are you?
[CdM] I thought Tolkien translated it from the Red Book of Westmarch.
Is there written evidence of this?
[CdM] Sorry - I kinda thought I had the time difference worked out. [and, selfishly, fail to acknowledge that you may have 'other things to do' at the end of a working day].
Written evidence? I'm not sure what you mean. You already know that this is a work of fiction written between 50 and 100 years ago, and that a case could be made for it having been originally written in English.

As to where I was, it is true that your poem question came in before 10pm Singapore time, so on any given day there is a good chance I would be online then -- but not last night, as it happened.
A play?
The play's the thing? Yes. *applause*
Written by just one author?
One author? Yes.
Was it originally written, if not in English, then in Irish?
Originally written in Irish? No. *curiously, there is still a smattering of applause*
Irish author?
Is it performed much these days?
any moment now...
Irish author? Yes. *applause*
Performed much? Yes.
Samuel Beckett?
Beckett? Yes. *no sound from the audience because they have all left already*
This might be a good time to remind you of the circumstances in which I set the clue. :-)
Well yes, I did think of going straight there. I'll leave the last rites for someone else.
[ImNotJohn] Shall we go then?
Waiting for Godot [En attendant Godot]
That was tricky.

[CdM] Righty-ho. This may look nit-picky when it springs to life on screen but I promise, no criticism is intended - I'm thinking it's all down to my lack of understanding of the ABSTRACT word when used in this game. [which is why I asked the question "is there written evidence of this?" meaning "is this a tangible/material thing?"]
If anyone is interested enough to join in the discussion, I'd welcome other views.
As for a new puzzle, perhaps irach will return soon to take up the baton .
[Chalky] No, fair point, I should have probably added (with Vegetable Connections) to get at the physical incarnation that the play can take. I'm still not sure I exactly understand what you mean by written evidence, though. :-) Anything like a work of fiction is to my mind ABSTRACT, because it conceivably could exist without any direct physical incarnation (i.e., it could be stored as a bunch of ones and zeros, or simply by the neural firings of someone who has memorized it).

By the way, the words on the card were "Waiting for Godot", which I was taking to be the English version, which is why the questions about its previous incarnation in French were tricky: when Beckett wrote waiting for Godot, he didn't simply translate En Attendant Godot, but also made changes. Anyway, I'm done here.


He does not move.
yeah I know :-) You leap in to do a person a favour and some bozo wanders by and starts questioning everything. Still - I s'pose if no-one questioned anything in these forums, it would be a pretty dull place.

And no move from me. Irach??
missing persons
Still no irach? Shall I start a new one?
Sure, you did just win one. Take the baton.
[Quend] well - it wasn't really a 'win' as it had been signposted for some time. However, as I am home-based for a few days I'll happily take the chair.

A N I M A L
A fictional beast?
Human?
[IS,P!] a fictional beast? NO
[Software] human? YES
Alive?
Unique?
[Rosie] Alive? NO
[Quendalon] Unique? YES
British?
[Raak] British? YES *applause*
Died in the last fifty years?
I hope everything is ok with irach; it's not like him(?) to be gone this long.
[CdM] Died in last fifty years? NO
I think it's a 'he' and hopefully he's just on vacation.
Is any structure named after this person?
irach posted twice on Monday. I reckon he's forgotten about this game.
Boudicca?
Let the wild guessing begin!
Male?
Royalty?
Connected with the arts?
Bigger than a toaster? (trad.)
[Rosie] Is any structure named after this person? Excellent question! and YES - you might say that, in a manner of speaking, sort of. *audience already geared up for an early finish*
[CdM] Boudicca the wild? NO
[Kinrah] Male? YES
[INJ] Connected with the arts? YES *more applause*
[Phil] Bigger than a toaster? I'm sure he was :-)
sorry [Raak] Royalty? NO
Henry Tate?
[Raak] Henry Tate? NO
Connected with the Theatre?
[Kim] Connected with the theatre? NO - not specifically
Is the person known primarily as a creator of art?
Sir Arthur British-Museum?
Oh all right
A writer?
*straining to be heard above the cheering audience*
[CdM] Primarily a creator of art? YES
[INJ] A writer? YES to a lesser extent
Is the "structure" mentioned by Rosie a building?
[Kim] The structure mentioned by Rosie is NOT a building as such
Is it a bridge?
William Morris?
Is the "structure" outdoors?
Is the structure a monument?
[Kim] A bridge? Not in the way you may mean
[CdM] William Morris? NO
[Rosie] Is the 'structure' outdoors? It could be.
[Raak] A monument? Not really in the way you may mean. But in another sense 'monument' is rather an apt word.
Is this 'structure' actually a type of structure - i.e. there are many of them?
[INJ] Are there many of them? Ah, you picked up on my clue :-) YES, there are many of them.
*was feeling guilty - having been away from the PC for 5 1/2 hours. Not so now*
Keep 'em coming. I be off to bed now. Will be back at 0730 GMT.
Sir Christopher Wren?
No, can't be. That's rubbish. Get a grip, man.
A household or garden ornament named after "the person"?
Leslie Hore-Belisha?
Although if it is, someone else will have to set the next one. Off to pilg and Eastercon from today.
[Rosie] wren ...er ... Garden/Household Ornament? I don't think so - NO
[Raak] Leslie Hore-Belisha? NO
Does the "structure" come in different sizes?
[Kim] Differently sized? YES
Is the "structure" normally fixed in one place?
Is the 'structure' a 3-dimensional solid?
Taking something on paper or a flat surface to be 2-dimensional (to silence the quibblers)
[Kim] Fixed? Difficult to answer. Strictly speaking [insofar as the answer on the card is concerned] the 'structures' are fixed but under other circumstances might well be free-standing.

[INJ] 3 - dimensional? To be exact [insofar as the answer on the card is concerned] - NO but under other circumstances I would reply YES.

It may be helpful to find out more about the man rather than the 'structures', even though they are inextricably linked.
Does the name of the objects contain the person's name?
Did he die in the 19th century?
[Rosie] Do the 'objects' contain the person's name - YE-E-ES.
[Irouléguy] Die in 19th century? YES
Sneaking in ...
Thomas Bruce, the Seventh Earl of Elgin?
[Hi Software - welcome to this little conundrum] Thos Bruce, 7Th Earl etc? NO
Did this person develop a certain technique/style/method of doing something that is now named after him, so the objects are known as (something like) '<:Name>-ian <Things>'?
Is he a painter?
[CdM] Technique/style/method etc. Hmmm - the way he did it is not necessarily named after him [see answer to Rosie's question] but the content of what he produced most certainly is. The 'objects' in question are definitely known the way you have described.
[Rosie] Painter? A resounding YES!
William Turner?
When you are talking of structures or objects, is it correct that you mean something more this this gentleman's paintings?
Adolf Hitler?
[CdM] Turner? NO
[CdM] I'm SO glad you've asked this question *wry grin* and need to construct a careful reply without giving you the answer :-).
The structures/objects in question certainly define most of this gentleman's paintings. 'Something more'? - I would venture a YES in both an abstract and a material way.

[Quendalon] Adolf Hitler? No - this chap is British
Is there a "school" of painting (e.g. Dadaism) named after him?
[Phil] Is there a school named after him? Not that I know of, or can find evidence of.

Hint: He had a certain style of 'painting' both in the manner of execution and subject matter. This style then became synonymatic.
signing out for Easter
well- I'm sorry no-one seems to want to ask any more questions - because I'm now, due to family committments, 'not around' for a few days.
Is synonymatic a real word?
Turner and his clouds?
... yes I was in the V&A yesterday...
Notices someone else has said Turner
Frig. Constable, then.
Died in the 20th century?
sorry for delay - am rather ill at mo
[IS,P] Synonymatic? Yes
Turner? NO
Constable? NO
[INJ] Died in 20th century? Yes
Ummmm...Do you believe in reincarnation?
He died in the 19th and 20th centuries?
Would this gentleman have 'dabbled' in more than one medium?
Beardsley?
Ah yes, I missed Irg's question - So, we're looking for a poor late Victorian/Edwardian comedian who painted (and wrote a bit)
I'm too ill to carry on with this.

The Answer Is: this chap
Oh, damn. We should have got that. Good one. Hope you're feeling ok...
Red faces all round, I think.
Get better soon, Chalky.
In the absence of a winner, I'll happily take up the baton, as I've got a puzzler that I've been wanting to put forward for ages, if no one objects.
Of Course!
[Chalky]Commiserations - I'll have a whisky on your behalf.
[Kim] Please go ahead. Let me clear the way for you.
Begins with a P?
Anything to do with arachno-syndicalism?
That's a frightening thought
[Rosie] If those spiders get organised we won't stand a chance.
bigger than a toaster?
[INJ] My thoughts exactly. I was already tittering at Rosie's post when yours made me guffaw.
BANG! Oh, you've already started...
This is ABSTRACT with ANIMAL, VEGETABLE and MINERAL connections, so the answers so far are:
[Tuj] No.
[Rosie] No.
[IS,P] Minerally speaking, yes.
A phenomenon?
(INJ) Glad you read it accurately :-)
A piece of fiction?
[Rosie] You're a canny old thing, aren't you?
[Rosie] Boo-booo be doo-boop! N-N-No.
[Tuj] The answer least likely to lead you astray is No.
I have a sense that this is going to hurt me more than it hurts you lot.
Is it a piece of music?
Would this relate directly to religion?
[Raak] No.
[Dujon] Not directly, no.
Related to climate?
Is the animal connection human?
Is the mineral part a structure?
(Tuj) Possibly.
[Quendalon] No.
[INJ] Mostly.
[Rosie] No.
A written work?
A gathering of any kind?
A geographical entity?
[Quendalon] No.
[Rosie] No.
[INJ] Yes. *sustained applause*
A city?
Is it wholly or partially in the northern hemisphere?
Does any Morniverser live there?
Is the Abstract an event associated with this feature?
Southern Hemisphere?
A country?
[Irouleguy] No.
[Quendalon] No.
[Rosie] Almost certainly No and I hope to God not.
[INJ] No.
[Tuj] Yes.
[nights] *applause*. The only adequate answer to this question is Yes and No.
Antarctica?
Though that would lead us into the 'what is abstract?' debate again.
Fictional?
Would explain the 'abstract'?
[INJ] No.
If I were to devote much time to consideration of the "what is abstract?" question, I might conclude that the subject matter of our current discussion is actually ANIMAL/VEGETABLE/MINERAL with ABSTRACT connections, or even AMINAL/VEGETABLE/MINERAL/ABSTRACT. Fortunately, I'm far too busy to give it much thought.
Río Gallegos, Argentina?
A soulless dump, but with interesting weather.
The Roaring Forties?
[Kim] You didn't answer Bigsmith's last question
The Vatican City
blatantly lurking
Or the Holy See if you prefer
Bugger, ignore that. It would help if I read all of the answers.
[Rosie] No.
[INJ] No.
[Graham III] Duly ignored, as requested.
[Bigsmith] Apologies for missing your earlier question. It's a humdinger. The answer to it is Yes, but I fear that this will create more problems than it solves.
Based on a real country?
The Falklands War?
Is the answer a proper noun?
I've not been credited with a humdinger before - thank you!
Is the answer the name of a fictional work?
Sounds like we could be looking for a fictional account of a real place
Mordor?
[Quendalon] No.
[Rosie] No.
[Bigsmith] No. I've never dinged anyone's hum before, either.
[INJ] No.
[Juxtapose] No.
Is this fictional place in Africa?
[Irouleguy] No. Further trips along this route might (but only might) prove helpful.
Van Daemon's Land?
Above sea level?
In Australasia/Oceania?
Was this once a country but is so no longer?
I think the striking thing is that we are looking for a geographic entity that is not a proper noun, which rules out things like Shangri-La or Atlantis (both of which could also be ruled out on other grounds, I think, but anyway).
Was this place called something else in the past?
Is it defined by a physico-geographical property?
(Chalky) You OK now, gel?
The Lost World?
Chalky] Welcome back!
[Rosie, Iroulé] see chat.
With apologies for absence..
[Rosie] No.
[Quendalon] Y-Y-Yes.
[INJ] Y-Y-Yes.
[CdM] No.
[Chalky] No.
[Rosie] N-N-No. Can you clarify?
[Irouleguy] No.
[Chalky] Welcome back. Hope you are fully recovered.
Polynesia?
(Kim) What I meant was something such as an archipelago.
A coral reef of some description?
[Rosie] No (not Polynesia and not an archipelago).
[Dujon] No.
I am trying to devise some form of clue that won't give the game away. On reviewing what has gone before, I feel that I am being fairly consistent and consistently fair in my responses, but I have to acknowledge that my answer of "No" to INJ's question "Antarctica" is not wholly correct (although "Antarctica" is not the answer on the card). The "What is Abstract?" debate may be worth revisiting in this context.
The ozone hole?
Depicted in sequential art?
The Ross ice shelf?
A migratory path?
[Rosie] No. Animal, vegetable and mineral are all involved.
[Quendalon] Not that I am aware of.
[Irouleguy] No.
[Dujon] No.
An Antarctic base?
[Rosie] No.
Is it on land?
[Quendalon] To the extent that it is Animal, Vegetable and Mineral it is on land (inasmuch as it is not underwater, in the air, in space or anywhere else) but bear in mind that I have said that it is ABSTRACT, with A/V/M connections (or, possibly, A/V/M/A, depending on your point of view).
anything to do with an Antarctic expedition?
[Rosie] No.
Related to Jonathan Swift?
[Quendalon] No.
[Everyone] I'm willing to offer a clue at this point, as I am detecting a slowing of momentum. Takers?
[Kim] Sure. I think we can also use a recap...
The South Pole?
[Rosie] No.
Clue
When is a country not a country? Think about it.
When it's an independent autonomous region of a people's republic?
[Raak] OK. Or...?
A recognised region (e.g. Patagonia)?
[Dujon] Yes! Recognised, or.....?
The unclaimed part of Antarctica?
only in italics
A place marked "Here be dragons"?
[Raak] No. And it's not Wales, either. Listen, is Tibet a country?
Las Islas Malvinas?
The roof of the world?
[Kim] Yes, except when it's an independent autonomous region of a people's democratic republic.
[INJ] No, but you're getting closer.
[Raak] Exactly. It all depends on your point of view.
Is it in South America?
[Raak] No.
South Georgia?
[Rosie] No.
Is it covered by the Antartic Treaty?
...or even the Antarctic Treaty..
Is it on or connected to a specific island or group of islands?
Are you going to answer my question?
(my fault, I know -- the italics thing)
[INJ] Neither.
[Quendalon] Difficult. I'd have to say Yes.
[CdM] Yes. No. Sorry.
Kerguelen?
The British Antarctic Territory?
[Rosie] No.
[Irouleguy] No.
Ilas Malvinas?
[Software] No.
Try asking me some questions about the country itself.
Does the country currently exist?
Is it populated by humans?
[CdM] Yes and no. It depends entirely on your point of view.
[Bigsmith] Yes is probably correct here, but distinctly arguable, if, in fact, it does not exist.
Do the people who populate it currently exist?
Is it an entirely natural feature?
Is it south of 45° S?
I'm getting really pissed off with this, but that's just me.
Is this a dissolved union/federation?
Is at an area of disputed territory that lies in part or wholly in Antarctica?
(I'm thinking particularly Chilean and Argentine claims here, but I'll keep the question more general.)
Actually, I think INJ's question may already have covered this...
Can we have a proper CLUE please Kim :-)
[Rosie] Agree. 18 days and counting is a bit much for this game.
Does it have military significance?
I looked up disputed territories in Oceania & Antarctica and got to over 50! Everything within the Antarctic circle is covered by the Antarctic treaty, plus some more areas as well, it can't be Antarctic as such.
Is this a fair summary of the facts gained so far?
The answer is a fictional entity that may or may not be a country that may or may not currently exist, but not a named place as it is not a proper noun (abstract). It is located in Australasia/Oceana, and the guess that it is a geographical entity drew sustained applause (mineral/vegetable). It is mainly populated by humans - in as much as it is a fictional place (animal). This is the sum product of 18 days' work!
Is it Mu?
El Dorado?
East Timor
Just to get the hatrick you see.
[G3] All proper nouns...
[Bigsmith] I have to acknowlege that I have misled everyone by stating, wrongly, that the answer is not a proper noun. It is. How I came to say that it isn't is beyond me. Truly sorry. *Hides face in embarassment*
[GIII] None of the above three.
[Everyone] I will answer all of the unanswered questions above AND provide a proper clue a little later on today.
Does the fictional part of this derive from one book/author/film/series of films?
[Kim] No worries - everyone else seems to have ignored that answer!
[Bigsmith] It seemed absurd...
[Quendalon] "It" is currently populated by living people.
[Rosie] "It" is not exclusively in the South Pacific and therefore not exclusively South of 45oS. I fully understand and sympathise with your frustration and I think it will be necessary to draw this particular round to an end within the next 48 hours.
[Dujon] "It" is not a dissolved union or federation
[CdM] "It" could be said to be an area of disputed territory that lies partly within Antarctica.
[Chalky] You deserve a better clue than my miserable efforts so far and I shall try to provide a decent clue in a separate post passim.
[INJ] Some of "it" has military significance.
[Bigsmith] A fair summary, which I would like to supplement, if you don't mind.

1. We have recently established that, although it is abstract, it is a proper noun, despite my asserting the contrary, which will probably haunt me forever.
2. The question of whether it exists or not depends entirely on your point of view, which is to say that some people would assert that it exists and others would assert that it does not. Its very existence is a matter of dispute. It is my belief that it does not exist and is therefore abstract.
3. To the extent that it does exist, it purports to be a country, that is to say, those who believe that it does exist refer to it by a name (yes, a proper noun; sorry, again).
4. To the extent that it does exist, it is substantially, but not exclusively in Australisia/Oceania. The question of the whole, or part of Antarctica has some up more than once and is relevant.
5. To the extent that it does exist, its territorial rights are in dispute.
6. To the extent that it does exist, it does not comprise a single landmass, but several.

CLUE
There is a strong biblical connection.
A diaspora?
Sheol?
I don't recall Antarctica being mentioned in the Bible.
Judging by your summary - is this 'place' really really big? Like - huge?
{Bigsmith] Not me! It's been driving me crazy. In fact i almost asked a couple of days ago if Kim was sure. But I'll still forgive him. Maybe.
Is there any part/element of this that we would all agree *does* exist?
In other words, is it the designation of this place that is under existential dispute, or the very place itself?
Is it a 'Lost Civilisation' - like Atlantis?
... and I am aware that CdM mentioned Atlantis some time ago :-)
[Rosie] No.
[Raak] No.
[Chalky] Its Wiki entry does not provide the landmass area in m2, but I would say that it is not "really, really big" (in comparison to, say, Africa).
[CdM] We can all agree that the landmasses that comprise it all really do exist. They are, without doubt, the Animal, Vegetable and Mineral parts of this. What we are testing, I think, is the Abstract element.
[Chalky] No.
Is belief in God (the Bible version) linked to belief in its existence?
[CdM] Yes, I too found the proper noun thing frustrating, glad it is clear now. I think I can bring myself to forgive Kim...just about!
Terra Australis [Incognita]?
The Maori Nation?
Do the landmasses that comprise it all include include Australia, or any part of the Australian continent?
[Bigsmith] Yes.
[Chalky] No.
[Phil] No.
[Irouleguy] No.
By the way...
Is it still possible to attach links here? The answer, when it comes, will best be shown by its Wiki entry.
Zealandia?
[Kim] Yes - you can attach links. I did so when I gave away the last turn.
Am confused by your reply to Irouléguy's recent question and Point 4 in your supplementary summary.
Sorry - scrub my last guess. Silly me. I'll try another one, if I may ....
Does the Abstract element in this refer to something that has been predicted to happen in this area?
Do any of those who believe that it exists believe themselves to currently be resident citizens thereof?
Do the landmasses that comprise it all include include any part of New Zealand?
Chalky] I just asked about the Australian continent - according to the Wikipedia entry, Australasia also includes New Zealand, and sometime also Papua New Guinea and associated islands. I suspect Kim means the South Pacific more generally.
[Chalky] No.
[Quendalon] I cannot find a definitive answer to this, but I think it is very likely that those who claim its existence do not live there and those who inhabit the landmasses would not claim to be citizens of it.
[Irouleguy] In the interests of getting this finished today, I am going to give away the physical location. CLUE: the landmasses that comprise the animal, vegetable and mineral parts of this are various Pacific Ocean islands and certain parts of Antarctica.
Is it connected to some specific Biblical event (e.g., the Flood)?
And is it connected to some particular flavor of Christianity?
[CdM] To be helpful, I will say that it is connected to a biblical legend, but not an event as such.
[CdM] I don't remember mentioning Christianity. If you question were "is it connected to some particular flavor of religion, the answer would be Yes and there would be some *applause*
CLUE: Those who believe that it exists claim that it is an Ecclesiastical Sovereignty.
That makes the result instantly Googleable, I think.
[Raak] Yep, found it. Do you want to do the honors? I wouldn't mind, but I just went a couple of rounds ago and I don't want to hog the spotlight.
The Dominion of Melchizedek (DoM)?
I'll take it if Raak doesn't want it :-)
Also .... if I happen to be correct - I am definitely at a PC for the next few days so can reply promptly, which helps the game move along.
*wishes she'd kept Heath Robinson under wraps*
[Chalky] Go on then, I was losing the will to live during this round.
[Raak] I was interested, but I was also way off on the wrong track -- I assumed it was some kind of Young Earth Creationist land bridge.
Whew!
Chalky wins the marathon! I would welcome feedback/discussion on this. Some of those questions were really hard to answer succinctly. *Hands baton to Chalky and runs off to hide"
*takes baton*
Kim] Yup - being 'in the chair' is tougher than it looks. I shall choose carefully and post a little later this evening.
later this evening
M I N E R A L
Oh, come on Chalky, that one's completely unreasonable!
[Kim] So, I was skeptical of that AVMA for the last week or so, particularly when it became clear that the answer was going to be something that I (and I suspect many other people) had never heard of. But, now, having looked up the quite wonderful DoM on the internets, I have changed my mind: I think it was an excellent AVMA subject despite its obscurity. My only quibble (well, other than the proper noun thing) is that I think the Bible hint was kind of misleading, in that it suggested a true religious link as opposed to a made-up-in-order-to-defraud-people religious link.

And you are right that the classification (A/V/M vs A) is very hard. I'm still not sure how I would describe it: my rules of thumb are letting me down here.
(CdM) As you say, the answer was something that very few people will have heard of and we would still be on this wild goose chase but for a very heavy clue from Kim. Frankly, I just can't see the point of this type of subject. It's a complete waste of one's time trying to get closer to an answer that is in effect not there as far as one's own general knowledge is concerned. I feel as if I and others have been made the butt of a rather stupid nerdy practical joke. It's really not what the game should be about.
[CdM] Huh. You might have at least asked a question [if only to give me a reason for being awake at this unearthly BST time].
Is it a human construct that begins with P and is bigger than a toaster?
Oh all right then.
Is it unique?
Tried and true.
[CdM] Human construct, P... , bigger than a toaster? YES, NO, NO
[Quendalon] Unique? YES and NO
Does it require batteries?
[Bigsmith] Batteries? NO
Is it usually to be found in the home?
[Bigsmith] Found in the home? YES - it can be
Could one buy it in a department store?
[Raak] Department Store? YES probably
When you say it's both unique and not, do you mean that there's only one thing called this, but it's mass-produced (ie a 1980 Suzuki GS850-GT)?
Hand-crafted?
[Irouléguy] It IS mass-produced but individually remains unique
[Quendalon] Hand-crafted? NO
Is it a proper noun?
[Kim] A proper noun? NO - but it's a bit prim
Is each one of these prim mass-produced objects unique it itself?
Does each have a unique serial number?
Is it made of pottery/ceramic/clay/glass type stuff?
[Rosie] mass-produced but unique in itself? That's what I said :-)
[Quendalon] Unique serial number? YES
[Software] pottery/ceramic/clay/glass? NO - none of the FOUR you have specified. Dunno about the 'type stuff' - perhaps you can be more precise? :-)
Is it a piece of electronic equipment?
[Raak] A piece of electronic equipment? Good question. Mmmmm .. NO
Does it inform one of the time?
[Kim] Your question made me guffaw and frighten my workmates. You are truly forgiven!
Is it bigger than a £1 coin?
[Bigsmith] Time piece? NO
[Irouléguy] Bigger than a £1 coin? Bigger? How do you mean? Area? Thickness? Width? Height? Bulk? Mass? More famous?:-)
[Irouléguy] Re: the size thing - I've just dashed off a spot of differential calculus and come to the conclusion that it IS and it ISN'T.
Does it have any moving parts?
I keep asking the same questions every time. Is this a sign of consistency or insanity?
Is it a battery?
[Quendalon] Moving parts? NO

[Raak] A battery? NO
Is it primarily made of metal?
Are these objects custom-made?
[CdM] Primarily metal? NO
[Rosie] Custom-made? NO
Primarily ornamental in nature?
[Quendalon] Ornamental? Most definitely NOT
Does it have anything to do with security?
Would this object contain a magnetic stripe?
[Raak] Security? sort of
[Dujon] Magnetic stripe? It's a bit late for me to look it up [mainly because I'm off to bed now], but YES - I think it could have one of those things
will be back at ten a.m. tomorrow
A plastic card (debit, credit, etc)?
Currency?
Is it worth more than £1?
late on parade
[Rosie] A plastic card? YES! *audience cheers but not for the parenthesised bit*
{Quendalon] Currency? NO
[Raak] Worth more than a £1? To some - maybe

Am entertaining the Sunday Lunchers today so may not be here til later this evening.
An Oyster card?
An identity card of some sort?
[Rosie] Actually, I don't think it's either of those [Oyster?] - but please keep asking because you are on the right track ...
[Rosie] ....and, on reflection, it's not an identity card per se but damn close to one
A driver's licence?
[rab] Your new system works well. I just hit the 'enter' key instead of the 'apostrophe' and managed to recover. Thank you.
Does it typically display a photograph of the owner?
[Dujon] I'd imagine that a driver's license is worth more than a pound to most people...
A library card?
A Nectar card?
AA membership card?
[Dujon] Drivers licence? NO
[CdM] Photograph? NO
[Rosie] Library card? NO
[Raak] Nectar card? NO
[Irouléguy] AA membership card? NO

Re: the point I made last night about being damn close to an ID card. Having slept on the matter, as it were, perhaps I should clarify:
It identifies something but not necessarily someone
Oh - previously [Dujon] question. It DOESN'T have a magnetic stripe, ie. it's not for swiping.
A bar code?
[Raak] A bar code? NO
Is it the same size as a credit card?
[rab] Does size matter? *audience applauds the question* It IS and then it ISN'T [see my reply to Irouléguy up the page] As an additional clue - not that it's needed at this stage because we're nearly there - in most countries, we think of it as somewhat smaller than a credit card.
Is it something we would normally expect to use/see on a daily basis?
[Graham III] use/see on daily basis? Use - YES. See - depends on viewpoint - ie. if you were manufacturing it, then yes. But normally NO - not daily, but certainly occasionally.
A SIM card?
Yay!
Raak has the very words on the card.
Well played. IMHO four days including a weekend is about right for this game. Of course, it depends on whether one is available to reply promptly, which I hope I was

*hands smart baton over*
Ok, the next is VEGETABLE and MINERAL, with ABSTRACT connections.
Begins with a P?
Smaller than a toaster?
A geographical feature?
Chalky] Smaller? How do you mean? Area? Thickness? Width? Height? Bulk? Mass? Of lower social status?;-)
[Tuj] Does not begin with P.
[Chalky] Smaller in all of the ways which Irouléguy has enumerated.
I think I've simulposted which may make nonsense of my words. [Editor] Nothing new there then.
[Irouléguy] It's not really your place to say :-)
I'm content with Raak's reply *giggles at lower social status bit. In retrospect, that was funny. *
[Raak] See? That Iroulé bloke has distracted you - how about the geographical thing?
[I] Not a geographical feature. (There's not many of those that are smaller than a toaster!)
[C] I'm serious about the social status! This thing really does rank below the humble toaster.
Is it used to perform some menial task?
Is it manufactured?
Is the vegetable wood?
[B] Not for a menial task.
[r] Yes, manufactured.
[I] Could be wood in part.
Would one find it in the kitchen?
[S] Not related to the kitchen.
Is it typically found in the home?
Does it require a power source?
Larger than a SIM card?
[CdM] Not typically found in the home.
[B] Requires no power source.
[C] Larger than a SIM card.
Would an owner normally have just one of these?
Chalky] I know my place ;)
Is it something of practical utility?
Do people carry these things with them when out?
[I] An owner would have many.
[r] Very practical.
[R] If they have them, they would.
A clarification of my last answer to CdM: a typical home would not have any, but a typical one of these might well be in someone's home.
Is it something one wears?
[rab] One does not wear it.
A golf tee?
Is the mineral bit solid metal?
Is this a projectile?
A walking stick?
Shut up at the back there.
[I] Not a golf tee.
[C] Not solid metal.
[D] Not a projectile.
[R] Not a walking stick.
Is it mostly for use outside the home?
Is its practical utility restricted to one thing only (ie, does it have more than one use)?
Is the vegetable bit wood?
[rab] Yes, mostly used outside the home.
[Kim] Um. It does one thing, but that one thing has many uses.
[Software] See INJ's question earlier.
Connected with travel or motion?
Does it include an implement for getting Scouts out of horses hooves?
[Chalky] Nothing to do with travel or motion.
[Kim] Not a Swiss Army penknife.
Would one normally keep these objects in one's pocket?
[Bigsmith] Yes, one's pocket is a typical place to carry these (although the typical pocket does not contain any).
Is it an object that is only carried on particular occasions?
Is it something one would look through?
Is there a particular kind of person (e.g., age, occupation, specialized interest) who is most likely to carry these objects?
Are these objects more likely to be used by a specific gender?
Is there anything written on it?
A box/book of matches?
[R] Not related to particular occasions.
[r] Not for looking through.
[C] Yes! A particular sort of person would deliberately have these.
[B] Not gender-related.
[Q] Yes, there is stuff written on it (using the word "written" rather generally).
[S] Not a book or box of matches.
Is it used in a game?
[rab] Not used in a game.
Do people use these for work?
Is it a form of 'currency'?
Is any part of it edible, potable and/or smokable?
[I] In a sense, some people do use these for work.
[C] *at last, the audience exercise their applause muscles* It is a form of currency!
[Q] You can't eat or drink it, and one wouldn't want to smoke it.
A five euro note?
Is it "sterling"?
Is it a well-known phrase to describe a type of currency ?
and was this currency used in the past?
sorry .... a bit greedy with 2 questions - but I'm orf to bed now, have an early start, etc etc.
[CdM] Not €5.
[rab] Not sterling.
[Chalky] Not a well-known phrase.
[Chalky] I dare say that this form of currency is as old as currency itself.
Change?
Casino chips?
[Rosie] Not change.
[Chalky] Not casino chips.
Is this paper currency?
Beer token? :o)
Is it a voucher of some kind?
From the U S of A?
[Chalky] *cheering* It is paper currency.
[Software] Not a beer token.
[Kim] Not a voucher.
[Bigsmith] Not specifically from the USA.
An IOU?
A pawn ticket?
The thing you get from the dry-cleaners?
[CdM,Chalky,Kim] None of these are what I would call paper currency.
One of the earliest answers may now prove illuminating.
OK - is it a banknote of some kind?
Am intrigued by the 'wood in part' reply [or was that a reference to paper?] Also, the fact that it ranks below the humble toaster
[Chalky] *applause* It's a banknote of some kind. The wood was indeed a reference to paper. *A ripple of anticipation as Chalky seizes on the significant earlier answer.*
Is the monetary value of this banknote insufficient to conduct the purchase of an average price toaster?
[Bigsmith] From one point of view, it could be, from another, it couldn't be enough to buy a toaster.
A promissary note?
[by way of explanation] some bank notes are promissory notes, some are not.
A forged banknote?
Is its use confined to professionals in the world of finance?
A traveller's cheque?
Is it official currency of any nation at the present time?
[G3,R,K,Q] No, because...
[Chalky] It is a forged banknote.
Hands over a wad of fivers all with the same serial number.
Wahay!
Thanks Raak. We seem to be on the same wavelength :-)
[I thought I knew the solution when you replied half an hour after my 'banknote' question. But I did wait for 3 hours.)
Now - we have this:

A N I M A L with a tinge of ABSTRACTINESS

A Cheshire Cat?
A human being who is bigger than a toaster and smaller than a telephone box?
Cézanne?
Is this animal used as a symbol?
A mascot?
[Rosie] cat from cheshire? NO
[CdM] A human being? YES :-)
[Irouléguy] Cézanne? NON
[Raak] Animal as symbol? N-N-NO
[Software] A mascot? NO
A singloe, specific individual?
[Raak] A specific, singly individual YES
A figurehead in some way?
Alive?
[Phil] A figurehead? Not sure what you mean but I'd say NOT
[Irouléguy] Alive? NO
Someone who has given his/her name to an idea?
[Rosie] Given name to an idea? GOOD QUESTION. YES - in a manner of speaking [that's the abstracty bit]
Robin Hood?
artistic connections?
Died in the 20th century?
[Kim] Robin Hood? NO
[INJ} Artistic connections? NO
[Iroulé] Died in 20th century? YES
Is this person noteworthy in regards to religion?
An academic?
[Quendalon] Religion? NO
[Raak] An academic? Of a kind - YES
Belgian European?
Sigmund Freud?
[CdM] European? Close YES
[Rosie] Freud? NO
Philosopher?
[Graham III] Philosopher? NO
A writer?
[Rosie] Writer? NO
A very dear friend died of cancer this afternoon. Can we convene on Monday ? I'm doubly sad today.
[Chalky] Sorry to hear that.
[Chalky] What Raak said. Such times are always hard. You've got friends who are thinking of you.
Chalky] What Raak and CdM said - imagine a collective hug wending its way to you.
[Chalky] Take all the time you need. We'll just check in from time to time.
[Irouléguy ] You means a wrappy wending?
Thank you all :-)
I must confess I was rather the worse for wine maudlin the early hours of Sunday. Many of his friends decided to go ahead with an already planned get-together Saturday night which was absolutely the right thing to do.
OK - let's be having some more questions ... perhaps beginning with the sex/occupation of this person ...
Is it a transsexual?
[Graham III] Transexual? Not as far as I can tell - although if one dug deeply enough ...
Did this person have a sex occupation?
[CdM] Sex occupation? NO - I've dug deeply and have found no record of any how's-yer-farver professionally, advisorililly, subversively or personally.
Female?
Suppose I ought to ask a sensible question.
Politician?
[Graham III] Female? NO
[Kim] Politician? NO
A composer?
[Rosie] Composer? NO
Entertainer?
Heath-Robinson?
[Softers] Entertainer? NO
[CdM] Heath-Robinson! NO! but it could so easily have been ...
Died in the latter half of the 20th Century?
Rube Goldberg?
[Kim] Latter half of C20? NO - very much the first half [nearly the first quarter]
[Projoy] Rube Goldberg? NO [nice to see you here :-)]
A scientist?
Economist?
[Projoy] A scientist? YES! * audience emerges from its stupor and attempts a mexican wave*
[Kim] Economist? NO *audience calms down a bit*
French?
[Projoy] French? NO
Albert Einstein
Hmm, a scientist, but only a sort-of academic...
[Graham III] Albert Einstein? NO but ... very very close *gasps of genuine anticipation from audience*
Scientist AND academic - aren't all scientists academic?
Planck?
Einstein wrote his most famous papers while working as a clerk, I believe, rather than being in a University.
Werner Heisenberg?
Of course I am Uncertain about this and have a feeling Projoy has it.
Schrodinger?
[PJ, Rosie, Quend] NOT Planck, Heisenberg or Schrodinger. Clue: All are the wrong nationality.
British?
Died before 1920?
[Raak] British? NO
[Projoy] Died before 1920? NO
Niels Bohr?
[Graham III] Bohr? NO
German?
[Kim] German? I refer the Honourable Crescenter to my reply to PJ, Rosie & Quendalon
Enrico Fermi?
[Chalky] As it happens, Schrodinger was Austrian. :-)
Sigmund Freud?
Dutch?
Arrhenius?
[Quendalon] Yes, I know Schrodinger was Austrian [as I am also aware that the other two were German ]- which is why I said that all 3 were the wrong nationality. I rather thought I was being helpful ... and didn't expect it to come back and bite me on the bum... :-)
[Q] Fermi? NO
[Phil] Freud? NO
[[Projoy] Dutch? YES! *audience girds its loins*
[Quendalon] Arrhenius? NO
van der Waals?
[Rosers] van der Waals? NO
Anthony Fokker?
Hendrik Antoon Lorentz?
[Software] Fokker? hell no :-)

but Graham III proves that persistence pays off by nailing the man. Well played Sir!
*passes on the electromagnetic baton*
Yayyyy!
We get there eventually. So, moving swiftly on:

ABSTRACT with various mineral and animal (and probably vegetable) associations/manifestations
The Man Who Broke the Bank at Monte Carlo?
[Chalky] Damn, but you're good. That's obviously correct.
[Chalky] TMWBtBaMC? No, 'fraid not.
God?
[GIII] Oh come on! It's completely against the rules to change the subject after the first guess!
A geographical feature/features?
[Raak] God? NO
[CdM] That would make for a long game. I don't have the patience...
[Irouléguy] Geography? NO
A written work?
Begins with a P?
A human idea/invention etc?
[Quendalon] Written? NO.
[Tuj] Pee? NO
[Rosie] Human? YES!
Invented in the last 100 years?
Connected with chemistry and/or biochemistry?
Is this an emotion/feeling?
A creative activity?
Stigmata?
I can be just as stupid as the next poster, GIII.
[Tuj] Last century? NO, but examine your assumptions.
[Quendalon] Chemie? NO, except possibly indirectly (I say that for completeness - not a helpful line of thought)
[Chalky] Emotional? NO
[Rosie] Creative? NO, not obviously.
[Dujon] Stigmata? NO, dur. ;-)
Named after a specific person?
Is this concerned with the acquisition of knowledge?
[Quendalon] YES/NO - named after two people. Finding them is unlikely to be a fruitful avenue of questioning, but maybe a pertinent fact later on in the game.
[Rosie] Knowledge-hungry? NO
Discovered in the last 100 years?
Any better? ;)
Is it a comet?
[Tuj] NO, and NO. :-)
[Kim] Tailed sun-circler? NO
Connected with money and/or economics?
[Quendalon] YES! *audience applauds with vigour*
The Chicago school?
Marxist-Leninism?
A unit of currency?
Is this an index?
[Raak] Friedmanesque? NO, see Quendalon's question above
[Rosie] Stalinesque? NO.
[Phil] CU? NO
[Dujon] Index? NO.
Do the names of the two people appear on the card?
and since I'm feeling greedy
Were the two eponymizing individuals both born before 1900?
[CdM] Difficult to answer your first question helpfully. I suggest you re-read Quendalon's question, and my answer.
pre-1900? YES!
Malthuniasism?
[Software] Malthusianism? NO, he was only one person I believe.
Clue: More questioning about the nature of this thing will yield much better results than the current line of questioning.
Is it a game?
Is it a theory?
Connected with representative money?
[Chalky] Game? NO
[Software] Theory? NO
[All] Game Theory? Two wrongs don't make a right
[Quendalon] Representative? Certainly has some related aspects, but not a connection you would naturally think of if someone mentioned this.
A piece of technology?
Connected with the transport of material goods?
[Rosie] Techie? NO
[Quendalon] Transport? NO
Is it connected with economics but not necessarily with money?
[GIII] Having reread Q's question and your answer I'm still none the wiser. :-) I get your advice to pursue other lines of questioning, but I'm puzzled as to why my pretty straightforward question is hard to answer (I don't doubt that it is; I'm just puzzled as to why). So let me look for clarification. We've established that this is named after two people.
Does the name (or some word/variant directly derived from the name) of at least one of these individuals appear on the card?
[CdM] Connected with economics but not necessarily with money? NO, more the other way round
Does the name (etc.) of at least one of these individuals appear on the card? YES!
[CdM] By way of a clue, if you were to remove one consonant from your original question (and twist the grammar to fit), I would have been able to answer YES, and you would have been further advanced. Because of that consonant, the answer (strictly) would have to be NO, but only because of pedantry and semantics. I therefore declined to answer in the hope of being helpful...
Do the two people have the same surname?
Marks and Spencer?
Barclays Bank?
Gresham's law?
[Irouléguy] Named for Thomas Gresham and John Law, right?
[Phil] YES! *audience applauds wildly, as Phil has got the key fact behind the name!
[Rosie] M&S? NO
[Irouleguy] Gresham & Law? NO, but:
[Chalky] Barclays Bank? YES! *Audience goes wild, applauding and generally fawning over Chalky*
CdM, GIII] According to Wikipedia, the expression "Gresham's Law" dates back only to 1858, and was coined (ho ho) by British economist Henry Dunning Macleod. Two people involved, only one surname in the answer, about money rather than economics - I was slightly straw-clutching, and it seemed possible.
Well done, Chalky - you're on a roll at the moment!
And another thing
Has there beem some confusion between Barclays Bank, which is as old as the hills and owes it name to one individual, and the squillionaire Barclay brothers, who own the Torygraph amongst other things. I only arsk.
[Rosie] Not according to Wikipedia. "The bank took its name from Alexander and David Barclay, who provided credit to transatlantic slave traders." I checked Barclays own site, but they don't seem to want to talk about their history...
Blimey - I wasn't really trying to win that one - particularly as I've been in the chair rather a lot recently. It's a busy week ahead for me [mainly away from my PC], so would anyone else like to take over?
[Chalky] I'd better not.
[Rosie] What CdM said - as you say, there appears to be some confusion... ;-)
[Chalks] I'LL do it! That is, if it's okay with everybody.
*in power-hungry mode*

[Graham III] I've just looked back to the beginning of this game and now understand why the audience felt duty bound to 'generally fawn' over me when I answered correctly. Pure guilt. For what, you may ask? For not even a merest rustle of surprise and astonishment when my, and the very first question, was SO CLOSE! Even the esteemed CdM knew I was right on the button. And they didn't applaud him either. :-) :-)

So if I am allowed to nominate - I shall choose CdM - and if he isn't available to take up the baton, I shall launch another one
ooh - simulpost.
[Juxta] Are you available to reply to questions regularly - like, more than twice in 24 hours? because that doesn't 'arf drag it out
[Juxtapose] Go for it!
[Chalky] Go for it!
[Juxtapose] Perhaps it would be fairer to allow someone - if not CdM :-) - who actually contributed towards the last puzzler to come forward first?
*maintaining stance*
I don't mind doing one, as I really thought I was going to get the last one :-)
[Phil] Excellent. Was hoping you'd appear :-)
Well, I do tend to check in about 8 times a day, and I haven't done one for yonks, so I vote for me ;-)
If no-one objects, I'd like to set the next challenge as ABSTRACT with ANIMAL and VEGETABLE connections
Human construct?
Begins with a "P"?
Been dying to ask that one!
An artistic work?
Does it have anything to do with fish?
[Chalky] I suppose on reflection you were sort of close with your first guess... My bad, as they say somewhere.
Is the animal human?
A philosophy?
I've Got a Loverly Bunch of Coconuts?
An anarcho-syndicalist recipe
[Chalky] No Comment.
[Kim] Human construct? YES
[Bigsmith] P? NO
[Raak] Artistic work? NO
[GIII] Piscine? NO
[CdM] Phil O'Sophy? NO
[Chalky] Your bunch? Very impressive, but NO
[INJ] Anarcho-thingy-whatsit? NO
Anything to do with mobile phones?
[Tuj] Mobile phones? NO
Some form of study?
[Rosie] Some form of study? Strictly-speaking, NO, although some study would normally be associated.
Phil - Is this abstract thing something that people would do for a living, say?
Would this be some form of skill?
A legislative activity?
[Chalky] Done for a living? NO - a murmur of appreciation from the audience for an almost useful question
[Dujon] A skill? NO
[Rosie] Legislative activity? NO
Is the vegetable connection paper?
Phil] You missed out my previous question.
[Irouléguy] Huge apologies:
Is the animal human? YES
Is the vegetable connection paper? Partly - some hesitant applause
Is this a form of entertainment?
A recreational activity of some kind?
[Chalky] Entertainment? NO A couple of amused chuckles
[CdM] Recreational activity? Having looked up definitions of "recreation", I fell compelled to say YES, but it might not be what springs to most minds as recreation.
Anything to do with the law?
[Rosie] Law-related? NO
Is writing involved?
Is the animal a character of fiction?
Is the definition of recreation under which you answered YES to one of the previous questions as a result of the second sub-definition within the second definition in Chambers?
That's here.
[CdM] Writing involved? Not necessarily, but it would be normal.
[Kim] Fictional animal? NO
[GIII] Did I mean "a new creation"? NO.
In fact, using the Chambers definition, I would say a definite YES to CdM's earlier question on reacreational activities, rather than my earlier vacillation.
Does an instance of this activity involve more than one human?
[Quendalon] an instance involving more than one human? It can do, but it doesn't have to.
So, the definition is "a pleasant, enjoyable and often refreshing activity done in one's spare time." The answer is therefore clearly

Drinking Beer.

Phil's confusion was understandable, since he typically does not do this in his spare time.
Philately?
Some kind of music making activity?
[CdM] Drinking Beer? NO (remember, it's not done for a living)
[CdM] Philately? NO - considerable applause from the suddenly-revived audience
[Chalky] Music-making? NO
So we are looking at a hobby of some sort, in which through study a level of expertise may be achieved?
Does it involve the accumulation of items over time?
[Bigsmith] A hobby? YES *some applause*
[Bigsmith 2nd half of question] Gaining a level of expertise? I suppose so, but I wouldn't focus on that if I were you.
[GIII] Accumulation of items? YES *vigorous applause*
Are the items made primarily of paper?
Is the wearing of an anorak a requirement for the complete enjoyment of this hobby?
Beermat collecting?
[Raak] Made primarily of paper? After a little extra research, YES, the items accumulated are usually primarily made of paper (carefully-worded answer) - *some applause and a little discussion amongst audience members*
[Chalky] Anorak-wearing? NO - *appreciative laughter*
[GIII] Beermat collecting? NO
Is the focus for collection the items themselves, or some feature (e.g. writing) on the items?
[GIII] Items or writing on them? Strictly speaking the answer should be YES. But as it's Friday, I'll answer that the focus would be on some feature (e.g. writing) on the items. *Some more applause*
Made of papier mâché?
Autograph-hunting?
[Raak] Mashed paper? NO
[Irouléguy] Philography? NO
Cigarette card collecting?
[Phil] Thanks. I was lazily trying to get two questions in at once...!
[GIII] Cartophily? NO *audience is eagerly awaiting a correct guess, although a few think that Irouléguy's second question might be useful*
Flower pressing?
Some form of ticket?
This may violate the specified non-anorakiness.
Is the writing hand-written or printed?
Are the collected items mass-produced?
[GIII] Oshibana? NO
[Rosie] Ticket collecting? NO. On reflection, I think the activity is a bit anoraky, but I don't think it's required.
[Irouléguy] written or printed? Printed
[Quendalon] Mass-produced? YES
Is the collected item entirely vegetable?
This is strongly implied by previous answers, but I wanted to confirm. Also, interestingly (or perhaps not), when I first asked about recreation, I almost said hobby.
Is it made of cardboard?
Sports card collecting?
Top Trumps?
[CdM] Is the collected item entirely vegetable? There may be small traces of mineral, namely printing ink and ingredients in paper, but otherwise YES. (Hobby would have been a much easier question to answer).
[Raak] Made of cardboard? NO
[Quendalon] Sport cards? NO
[Chalky] Top Trumps? NO

[Everyone] As I mentioned earlier. the items accumulated are normally primarily made of paper. The items collected to provide that accumulation are not, but are still almost entirely vegetable. If that doesn't confuse the matter, I don't know what will ;-)
Phillumeny?
Scratch that, we've already established that it doesn't begin with a "P".
[Quendalon] Phillumeny? NO. Nor is it matchbook/matchbox collecting, for that matter.
Are the items collected labels of some sort?
[INJ] hmm - I was going to ask the same question ;-)
... and if the answer is 'YES' ...
[INJ] Labels? NO
Would this item cover a beermat?
You know. Them things.
[Rosie] Big enough to cover a beermat? NO - at least not in my experience or knowledge
Sucrology?
Kind of a shot in the dark. But if it's a game-winner, that'd be pretty sweet.
Do people [who don't indulge themselves] regard this hobby in a .... sort of, derogatory way?
I can't help thinking about your reply to my question "Is this a form of entertainment" and you said NO and the audience actually chuckled.
[Chalky] A disrespected hobby? NO - The couple of people who chuckled were (like me) amused by the thought of someone exhibiting their collection for entertainment purposes. Probably not very helpful chuckles, but chuckles nonetheless.
[Quendalon] Sucrology? YES - Congratulations, it is the collecting of sugar sachets and sugar cube wrappings. The sweet smell of success is yours. The difference between the collected items (mostly not paper) and the accumulated items (mostly paper) is that sucrologists remove the sugar post-collection and pre-accumulation. The UK Sucrologists Club has around 320 members, publishes a quarterly newsletter called "Sweet Thoughts", and offers a link to (amongst others) the Berlin Museum of Sugar.
(Phil) A bit anorakky?? Positively pathetic, certifiable etc etc. I dunno.
Well, that was interesting! Let's move on to the next item:
Animal and/or Vegetable, with Abstract connections
Begins with P?
[Tuj] Starts with P? NO. *amused laughter from the audience*
Something people eat or drink?
[Irouléguy] Edible/potable? NO.
Is it bigger than a toaster?
One of those blocks, often round, found in public urinals?
Well, give me a break, I don't know what they are called. They usually have a (strong) scent and might have disinfectant properties.
Is the animal element human?
[Dujon] "Urinal blocks" is the disappointingly mundane term you're after.
Life?
(Phil) May be disappointingly mundane but intriguingly ambivalent, given the undesirablilty of a blocked urinal.
[Chalky] Bigger than a toaster? Bigger? How do you mean? Area? Thickness? Width? Height? Bulk? Mass? More famous? ;-)
[Dujon] Urinal cake? NO.
[Phil] A human(s)? NO.
[Rosie] Life? NO.
Does it have anything to do with bodily functions?
Is there more than one of these?
Ends with P?
Is there just one animal involved?
Would you be most likely to find one of these in a house?
[Kim] Bodily functions? NO.
[INJ] Unique? NO.
[Raak] Ends with P? NO. *audience laughs*
[Irouléguy] More than just one animal involved? There are several ways to interpret this question; I think the least misleading answer would be YES.
[Tuj] Likely to find one in a house? NO.
Anything to do with food?
Any connection with language?
[Rosie] Related to food? NO, not really.
[INJ] Connection with language? YES. *applause*
Is it an embroidery sample of the alphabet?
[Phil] Embroidery sampler? NO. *muttering from the audience*
Does this involve the whole animal, or just parts of it?
[Irouléguy] Whole animal or just parts? Just parts
Is it a Scrabble tile?
[Tuj] Scrabble tile? NO.
Is lettering involved?
[Phil] Lettering? NO.
Object or objects involved in writing?
Would someone use this in their place of work?
Would you describe this as an illustration?
Are these found throughout the world?
So this is connected to language but the animal element is not human... Wow.
[Rosie] Involved in writing? NO.
[Chalky] Used in a place of work? NO, at least not in any modern workplace.
[Dujon] An illustration? NO, I wouldn't describe it as such, though I suppose an argument could be made.
[CdM] Found throughout the world? Technically YES, although a NO would be less misleading.
[CdM] Fair enough, there's a human connection, but that's not the animal connection specified in the challenge parameters.
Is the animal part leather?
Is this a type of signage?
[G3] Leather? NO.
[Chalky] Signboard? NO.
Is this an object that is best known because it features in a literary work?
[Chalky] Featured in a literary work? NO, not to my knowledge.
Primitive art?
Eg Cave paintings, white horses, men with enormous plonkers etc?
[Rosie] Primitive art? NO. *interested muttering from the audience*
But is it art?
[Tuj] Art? NO.
Graffiti?
[Chalky] Unartistic graffiti? NO.
Did this exist in the past?
[Chalky] Existed in the past? YES! *applause*
Is the animal part feathers?
[Rosie] Feathers? NO.
That was quick. Bones, then?
[Rosie] Bones? NO.
Is the animal part skin?
Is the vegetable element paper ?
[Irouléguy] Skin? NO.
[G3] Paper? NO.
A single unique thing?
[Tuj] Unique? NO. *approving nods*
Fewer than ten?
;)
[Tuj] < 10? NO. :-)
Is this a catch-all description for multiple and variable instances?
[G3] Could you rephrase? I'm not 100% certain I grasp the meaning of the question.
Hieroglyphs?
I possibly should have said "multiple and unique instances". For example, a solution which would require the answer YES would be "Impressionist paintings", or "skyscrapers", a solution which would require the answer NO would perhaps be "Tyres" or "Lenovo T62 Thinkpads". On reflection a crap question.
[G3] Egyptian squiggles? NO.
[G3] Per the "multiple and unique instances" question, it's a good question, but rather ambiguous. I think the thing under discussion falls somewhere in between your two examples.
So... manmade?
Well, we seem to have got a whole heap of nowhere so far!
[Tuj] Manmade? Definitely YES. (Do you need a recap?)
Would you find this in a museum?
Does this always involve the same part of the animal (ie limb, organ)?
[Chalky] In a museum? YES.
[Irouléguy] Same animal component? YES.
Is this a container of some sort?
[Rosie] Something to put other objects into? NO.
Does this involve multiple species?
A totem pole?
[Irouléguy] Multiple species? Collectively YES, individually I DON'T KNOW.
[Chalky] Totem pole? NO.
Something to do with fossils?
[Kim] Fossils? NO.
Are we talking fur/pelt here - or BLOOD!?
..ahem - just trying to inject a touch of drama :-)
[Chalky] Animal fur/hair? YES. (Blood? NO. :-)
A form of apparel?
[Dujon] Garment / accoutrement? NO.
Inca 'talking knots' - quipus/khipus?
[Irouléguy] Quipu? YES! *wild cheers from the audience* You've tied all the clues together and untangled a rather knotty problem. Good job!
Well, I can't claim all the credit - I was in cahoots with the others.

For a change of pace, our next is ABSTRACT with ANIMAL and MINERAL connections.
Begins with S?
[Quendalon] Nice one.
CdM] Begins with S? Sadly not.
Begins with a vowel?
Fictional?
Observable in nature?
Chalky] Begins with a vowel? On
Raak] Fictional? Dr. No
Kim] Observable in nature? *animated buzz in the audience* I'm very glad you asked me that...

I can see a case for answering either way, but I think 'yes' is less misleading
Is it visible or audible?
Is the animal connection human?
CdM] Is it visible or audible? Hmm...insofar as it is 'observable', you would have to say it's visible. Audible, no.
(Quendalon] Is the animal connection human? Yes
Is it a meteorological phenomenon?
Kim] Is it a meteorological phenomenon? No
Related to astronomy?
Quendalon] Brother Sun, Sister Moon? *applause* YES
Is it a constellation?
Kim] Is it a constellation? You cannot be Sirius, man!
Does this change from moment to moment even though retaining its description?
A collection of objects?
Dujon] Does this change from moment to moment even though retaining its description? *cries of 'oooh' and 'aaah' from the audience* In one sense, that's a very good description of it, but it doesn't get you any nearer.
Rosie - A collection of objects? No - this isn't a physical thing or things.
An aura of some sort?
[Iroulé] How do you know that your reply to Duj won't get him any nearer ? ;-)
Is it within the Solar System (understood as everything out to and including the Oort cloud)?
Chalky] An aura of some sort? No
Good point - I suspect it won't get him or anyone else any nearer, then.
Raak] Is it within the Solar System (understood as everything out to and including the Oort cloud)? Bearing in mind my answer to Rosie's question, yes.
anything to do with Astrology?
Does it relate to the movement or path of some celestial object?
Chalky] anything to do with Astrology? Fortunately, no.
ImNotJohn] Does it relate to the movement or path of some celestial object? *applause* YES - though 'relate' isn't perhaps the most appropriate verb.

Some assumptions should perhaps be re-examined.
When Venus is in conjunction with Mars?
Chalky] When Venus is in conjunction with Mars? No, no sexual connotations.
Named after a specific person?
The ecliptic?
An apogee?
Quendalon] Named after a specific person? *some giggling in the audience* For a particular value of 'person', yes.
ImNotJohn - The ecliptic? No
Phil - An apogee? No

A transit of Venus?
The Clarke Orbit?
Currently accepted as scientifically valid/viable/real/true?
ImNotJohn] A transit of Venus? No
Chalky] The Clarke Orbit? Well, I never knew that - a fitting memorial. Thanks, Chalky - that led me into a very pleasant Google. What Wikipedia doesn't say is whether there are other inventions/phenomena named after SF writers - does anyone know of others?
It's not the answer, though.
Quendalon] Currently accepted as scientifically valid/viable/real/true? Correct/accurate/exact/accepted even by flat-earthers and creationists.
The Kirkwood Gaps?
Is the animal connection the "named 'person'" from Quendalon's question?
It has animal and mineral connections, but no vegetable connections, which suggests the earth is not directly involved.
Rosie] The Kirkwood Gaps? No
CdM] Is the animal connection the "named 'person'" from Quendalon's question? Not the main one.
CdM thinking aloud] It has animal and mineral connections, but no vegetable connections, which suggests the earth is not directly involved.
I don't agree - the answer could be 'the equator' or 'the stratosphere', neither of which I would think of as having vegetable connections. This is an abstract, after all - the animal and mineral connections are the physical things without which it wouldn't exist.
The Van Allen belts?
Is the Earth the mineral connection?
A feature of the surface of the earth?
ImNotJohn] The Van Allen belts? No
Quendalon - Is the Earth the mineral connection? *applause* It's the main one, but not the only one.
Rosie - A feature of the surface of the earth? No

Back after the match.
The Trojan points?
Gravity?
Hooray, the "Whoops!" works :-)
Raak - The Trojan points? No
Phil - Gravity? No
Yes, the "Whoops" is a great invention.

To quote CdM, "Again I say, re-examine your assumptions." It's worth re-reading Quendalon's second question, ImNotJohn's first, and Dujon's
Celestial Co-ordinates?
Oppolzer's Canon of Eclipses?
Is this a form of electro-magnetic effect?
Phil - Celestial Co-ordinates? No
Rosie - Oppolzer's Canon of Eclipses? No
Dujon - Is this a form of electro-magnetic effect? No
Is it the Kuiper belt?
Does this involve man-made spacecraft?
Kim] Is it the Kuiper belt? No
Raak] Does this involve man-made spacecraft? No - complete abstract, remember?
Is it the intersection of two or more things?
Is it visible with the naked eye?
A light year?
or ... a parsec?
Going back to my first question - 'relates to the movement or path of a celestial object' (answered YESish) and assuming that your last answer excludes all man-made celestial objects.
Is the anwer the name or description of that path?
Raak] Is it the intersection of two or more things? You could at a pinch define it like that, but it wouldn't be very helpful.
Kim - Is it visible with the naked eye? Bearing in mind the earlier qualification of 'observable', yes.
Chalky - A light year - or ... a parsec? Inside the solar system? However, a modicum of *applause* for these having something in common with the answer.

INJ] Good question, but no (and your assumption is correct)
An Astronomical Unit?
The rising or setting of some astronomical body?
Kepler's laws of planetary motion?
Is it related to navigation?
Raak] An Astronomical Unit? No
Rosie] The rising or setting of some astronomical body? *applause and some cheering* Related to, yes.
Quendalon - Kepler's laws of planetary motion? No
ImNotJohn - Is it related to navigation? No
The man in the moon?
silly guess - I know :-)
The precession of the equinoxes?
Tidal patterns?
Atmospheric refraction?
Chalky]The man in the moon? No - but it would have been a good one ;)
Raak] www - the world-wide wobble? No
Phil] Tidal patterns? No
Rosie - Atmospheric refraction? No

Dawn?
OK - Is this 'man's' [the animal] perception of something that occurs in our universe [abstract] - meaning, does he need something [mineral] in order to 'see' or 'interpret' this thing [which is abstract]?
... a one-word answer will suffice ;-)
Quendalon - Dawn? *some applause* No, but getting warmer...
Chalky] OK - Is this 'man's' [the animal] perception of something that occurs in our universe [abstract] - meaning, does he need something [mineral] in order to 'see' or 'interpret' this thing [which is abstract]? ... a one-word answer will suffice ;-)

No >:)
Related to a shadow?
The Green Flash?
Twilight?
ImNotJohn] The shadow? Noes
Raak - The Green Flash? *Before Googling* No *After Googling Well, there you go - I've never seen one of those.
Rosie - Twilight? *applause* For the same reason as Quendalon - both of those are necessarily contained in the answer.

Daylight Savings Time?
(I know it's not right (named after a person?) but the audience reaction might be helpful...)
A full moon?
St Elmo's Fire?
CdM - Daylight Savings Time? (I know it's not right (named after a person?) but the audience reaction might be helpful...)*the audience shrug their shoulders* No
Dujon - A full moon? *appreciative murmurs in the audience* This is sometimes contained in the answer
Software - St Elmo's Fire? A wonderful Eno song, but not the answer

A summary?
Is it Keith Moon?
The dawn chorus?
Shut up, dickybirds, I'm trying to get to sleep.
Kim] Is it Keith Moon? No, nor Freddy Mercury either ;-)
Rosie] The dawn chorus? Oh don't deceive me, oh never leave me, how could you treat such a poor maiden - no

A summary

You’re looking for an ABSTRACT with MINERAL and ANIMAL connections. The animal connection is human. It is named after a particular person (for a given value of ‘person’). It doesn’t have a physical manifestation, though it is (arguably) observable in nature, and in that sense visible with the naked eye. It is inside the solar system. The closest guesses so far are that it is related to astronomy, related to the movement or path of some celestial object, and related to the rising or setting of some astronomical body. You might want to think about the scope of the word ‘related’. ‘Dawn’, ‘twilight’ and ‘a full moon’ also received some applause. It is also scientifically valid/viable/real/true (though some of these are more applicable than others).

It does not begin with S, or with a vowel. It is not (leaving out guesses ruled out by the above): a meteorological phenomenon; a collection of objects; an aura; anything to do with astrology; the conjunction of Venus and Mars; the ecliptic; an apogee; a transit of Venus; the Clarke orbit; the Kirkwood Gaps; the Van Allen belts; a feature of the Earth’s surface; the Trojan points; gravity; celestial co-ordinates; Oppolzer's Canon of Eclipses; a form of electro-magnetic effect; the Kuiper belt; the intersection of two or more things (well, you could describe it as that, but it wouldn’t be useful); a light-year or a parsec (though these have something in common with the answer); a name or description of the path of a celestial object; an Astronomical Unit; Kepler's laws of planetary motion; related to navigation; the man in the moon; the precession of the equinoxes; tidal patterns; atmospheric refraction; related to a shadow; the Green Flash; Daylight Savings Time; or St Elmo’s Fire.

It is much simpler than most of these. Much, much simpler. You will kick yourselves (you would probably also kick me, for sounding so smug…) Dujon’s definition of “something that changes from moment to moment even though retaining its description” is the closest so far, though my prediction that this wouldn’t be helpful hasn’t been proved wrong yet.
The horizon?
Well, no, not named after anything.
Is the "person" a mythical one?
Is it the Aurora Borealis?
Is it the effect whereby the sun or moon near the horizon appears much larger than when high in the sky?
The moon's measured size is actually less for simple geometrical reasons.
Raak - The horizon? No
Raak - Is the "person" a mythical one? *cheers and applause*YES
Kim - Is it the Aurora Borealis? No
Rosie - Harvest moon? Another great song, but no
Is the mythical figure Greco-Roman?
Would this effect be present if we had no atmosphere?
BTW what I asked about earlier is not a Harvest Moon, which is Something Completely Different and again involves geometry etc.
The tying down of the moons of Jupiter
Sorry for the delay - Bank Holiday weekend, so I slept in.

Quendalon] Is the mythical figure Greco-Roman? No
Rosie] Would this effect be present if we had no atmosphere? Assuming that we were somehow still present, yes.
BTW what I asked about earlier is not a Harvest Moon, which is Something Completely Different and again involves geometry etc. Apologies - I'm not a scientist (which may, now I come to think of it, be relevant).
CdM] The tying down of the moons of Jupiter? Hush, child oblig
Is the mythical figure Judeo-Christian?
Does this involve some kind of catastrophe?
Quendalon - Is the mythical figure Judeo-Christian? No
Rosie - Does this involve some kind of catastrophe? No
Thursday?
Yesterday?
Another song.
Raak - Thursday? *the audience rise to their feet as one person, cheering deafeningly* ALMOST!
Rosie - Yesterday? Possibly the answer, but not when you posted it.

Mate in five, at most.
Wednesday?
One down, one to go. THe winner owes much to Raak.
Friday?
I have asked some questions, so it's not a complete lurk
Rosie] Wednesday? No
One down, one to go. Yes, and as it turns out, no
The winner owes much to Raak. Absolutely!
Phil] Friday? Full of woe - still two to go
Tuesday / Tiw's Day?
Quendalon - Tuesday / Tiw's Day? YES! The baton goes back to Quendalon.
Thank you, thank you. That was a good one!

And now that it's Tuesday, let's start a new round:
ABSTRACT / ANIMAL
Fictional?
[Raak] Fictional? YES, though some would argue otherwise. *applause*
Aslan?
[Raak] The Lion Messiah? NO.
A figurehead?
Begins with P?
A character of legend?
[Rosie] Carven prow? NO.
[Tuj] Begins with P? NO.
[Kim] Character of legend? A very good question, but difficult to answer with the given phrasing. I'll have to go with a potentially misleading IT DEPENDS.
Are we looking at reigious connections?
[Tuj] Religious connections? YES, for a sufficiently broad definition of religion.
Italian?
Mentioned in The Bible or other holy book?
such as Ian Allan ABC of British Railways Steam Locomotives 1952.
Is the animal human?
Are we talking about more than one animal?
Someone that Dan Brown has 'written' about?
Anything to do with the Greek Myths?
[Tuj] Italian? IT DEPENDS.
[Rosie] Mentioned in the Bible? YES.
[Irouléguy] Is the animal human? YES.
[Chalky] More than one? YES.
[G3] Dan Brown? NO IDEA, sorry. (Haven't read him.)
[Kim] Mentioned in Greek myths? YES.
Is it a one-word answer?
Is this the name of a group of people that are connected in some way?
Gods?
If Italian, then Romans?
[Tuj] One word on the card? YES. *applause*
[Chalky] A group of people connected in some way? Technically, YES.
[Kim] Gods? NO.
[Rosie] Romans? As before, IT DEPENDS.
Is this a collective state of mind?
Giants?
[Chalky] State of mind? NO. *laughter*
[Kim] Giants? NO.
Ghosts?
Is this a disease or medical condition?
[Tuj] Ghosts? *DING!* We have a winner!

Passing the ectoplasmic, ethereal baton...
*drawing the line...*
Your answer to my last question
[Quendalon] How refreshing. Neither have I.
[Gra III, Quend] I once tried reading a page or two. Failed [as in - didn't enjoy]. Actually - IMO he's crap :-)
Gosh!
Well, well. I'll set something ANIMAL.
Human?
Bigger than a toaster?
Begins with a P?
Unique?
Alive?
Please please PLEASE let it begin with a P!
Human? [R] YES, though that may be a touch misleading.
Bigger than a toaster? [C] NO
Begins with a P? [K] NO. Gosh, that was an oversight
Unique? [Q] CERTAINLY NOT
Alive? [B] Ooh, tough question. After Quenders' question I'll phrase it as DEPENDS WHICH PARTICULAR ONE YOU MEAN ;) Oh, and psorry.
Is there more than one human [and are they midgets] ? :-)
A human organ?
This could be a quick one!
More than one human? [C] NO (for a particular case). They could be midgets ;)
A human organ? [R] NO, but *strong audience applause*
Organ donors?
Organ donors? [Q] NO *audience sigh and reseat*
The hairs on the head?
Lilliputians?
An embryo?
Egyptians?
Sperm?
*giggles while wondering if GIII missed the "smaller than a toaster" thing, or if there's something I never knew about Egyptians...or toasters, for that matter :-)*
The last five
All NOs. The audience, for what it's worth, looked least interested when Rosie & Graham III posited what they posited.
A component of the human body?
A type of cancerous growth?
In my defence, I misread the toaster question.
A bodily component? [Q] YES! *audience cheer and high-five*
Cancerous growth? [G3] NO
Is it in the interior of the body?
Interior? Strictly YES, though the name is generally used for an exterior area also.
A type of cell?
Cell? [Q] NO
The ear?
Though it's an organ.
Osseous in nature?
Ear? [R] NO. Right letter, wrong bit.
Osseous? [Q] That's a definite PARTLY, bearing in mind what I said to Raak.
By the way
I'm at a wedding tomorrow & unlikely to be by a PC on Sunday, so unless someone knocks this one out by very early tomorrow (UK time) I may have to do a revealio.
Above the neck?
Above the neck? [Q] NO (unless you bent so as to place it there, of course ;))
An elbow?
A muscle?
Knee?
READ THE ANSWERS GIII!
An eye?
Brainy?
Forget that, please,
might this be termed an epiphysis?
Elbow? [CdM] CORRECTO!
A bend of the arm passes on the baton.
Oops. I hadn't checked here in a while, and indeed had forgotten that I had an outstanding guess. Also, that was a lurker's victory, for which I apologise.

ABSTRACT with an ANIMAL connection and also ANIMAL/VEGETABLE/MINERAL connections.
Is the single animal connection human?
Is the single animal human? Yes. *sprinkling of applesauce, er, applause*
(that, by the way, is not an obscure hint; it's just what I almost typoed)
Is this a piece of art?
Begins with a P?
Outstanding in both meanings of the word =)
Is the other animal a particular species?
Is the aforementioned human a particular individual?
Piece of art? No.
P's at start? No.
Species part.? No.
Particular individual? No.
Connected with a particular geographical area?
A class of person e.g. musitian?
Is it fictional?
A character of myth or legend?
Is it unique?
Placed? No.
Classed? No.
Fictional? *some muttering in the audience* The words on the card do not denote something fictional as such, but there are definitely many fictional connections.
Myth or Legend? No, but again there are many connections to myth and legend.
Unique? No.
Does this involve a circle?
wondering where that question came from...
Circular involvement? No. I mean, I suppose it could, but not usually, and not in any way that would be helpful for finding the answer.
Is this connected with language?
Connected to language? I think the best answer is No. While there are some connections, there is neither a direct nor a necessary link to language.
Connected with religion?
Connected with religion? Sometimes, but by no means necessarily. (That is a more positive answer than my first instinct, but I am being influenced by a particular dictionary definition I am looking at right now.) The question does also prompt me to say that I should perhaps have said "...and also ANIMAL/VEGETABLE/MINERAL/ABSTRACT connections".
Thought?
A mental activity?
Is it "No Man's Land?"
Thought? No.
Mental Activity? I suppose, with a broad definition of mental activity, the answer is yes, but I'm not sure that is helpful.
No Man's Land? No.
Perhaps there is a bit more of a connection to language than I implied before, simply because this is most often made manifest through language (see "fictional connections").
Connected with politics?
A manifesto of some kind?
A ceremony or ritual?
Is it musical?
Poitical? No.
Manifesto? No.
Ceremony/ritual? No.
Musical? No.
Is this a form of entertainment?
Entertainment? No.
Pork Barrel Politics?
Pork Barrel Politics? Since it is not connected to politics, the answer is No.
An observable phenomenon?
Is it an office that someone holds?
Is this linked to ICT?
Is more than one human required?
I'm regretting this one big time...
Observable phenomenon? I don't think it is best described as a phenomenon and it is only observable with a very broad definition of the term.
Office? No.
Linked to ICT? No.
More than one human required? No specific human or humans are required.
Is it something which wouldn't exist without humans?
Any connection to eating and drinking?
One-word answer?
Any medical connections?
Something that wouldn't exist without humans? Yes, in two distinct ways. *applause, tinged with relief for the modicum of progress*
Connected to eating and drinking? No.
One word answer? Yes. *applause* Medical connections? No.
Is it, therefore, a human construct?
To do with relationships?
Human construct? It is most definitely a human construct. *audience laughter and applause*
To do with relationships? No.
Is there a connection with philosophy?
Connected with science?
Connected to philosophy? No.
Connected to science? No.
For most of these "connected to ...?" questions I can imagine some sort of connection. But the card talks about something relatively narrow and specific.
To do with travel?
To do with travel? No.
Does it begin with a letter in the first half of the alphabet?
Alphabetically privileged? Yes.
Discovered/invented within the past 100 years?
Within last century? No.
Is it a condition that affects some people but not others (eg baldness, unemployment...)?
Condition that affects some people but not others? No. It's not a condition. Some people might be more prone to it than others, I suppose, but it is more something that you do than that you suffer from.
Is this an invention?
Invention? No, at least not beyond the fact that it is a human construct.
Is it a sin?
Is it enjoyable?
not quite the same question as Kim's...
A sin? No.
Enjoyable? No, not particularly. Nor is it not enjoyable.
A mental process?
A mental process? Sort of. *cautious applause*. This AVMA isn't intentionally trying to be difficult or misleading. The questions are just hard to answer.
Logic?
Could you tell if someone was doing this by looking at them?
Is it some kind of physical movement?
Are the animal/vegetable/mineral connections concerned with the Earth as a whole?
Logic? No.
Can you tell by looking? No, in almost all cases. Mainly this is because it is almost always made manifest through language, as I said before.
Some kind of physical movement? No.
Connected to the Earth as a whole? No. It is not so much that there are A/V/M connections as a whole; rather each specific example of this will have an animal or vegetable or mineral or abstract connection.
Is this something that we do every day?
Is this an abstract noun?
... such as - Curiousity?
Does it involve stories?
Is it suscepitble to cause and effect?
Does the word on the card start with a vowel?
Something we do every day? Good question, and I actually not really sure of the answer. My first instinct was no. Most of us certainly do not do it consciously every day. On reflection, though, I suspect that it is something we often do without being aware of it, so the answer might well be yes.
Abstract noun? Yes. *applause*
Curiosity? No.
Does it involve stories? Very often, yes (though it might be more accurate to say that stories can involve it). *some applause*
Susceptible to cause and effect? I'm not exactly sure what you mean, but I think that the only helpful answer is No.
Vowel at the head? Yes.

Sorry this is so tricky. I have scattered a few obscure clues in my answers of the last several days. If the next few questions take you no closer I'll try to think of a better clue.
An explanation?
Imagination?
An attitude of mind?
(e.g. cynicism)
Explanation, Imagination, Attitude? No.
A type of speech act?
Is it related to a lack of brevity/efficiency or the like?
Trying to read something into the last (and earlier) answers
Type of speech act? No (at least, not as I understand the term). Nevertheless, I think your answers are getting warmer, even if they still need several sweaters.
Soulless wit? No. That was just me being long-winded.
Adjective?
Is this an -ism?
Absent-mindedness?
Abstraction?
Is it a gerund?
anarcho-syndicalism? :)
Adjective? No. Nor is it one.
An -ism? Yes. *applause*
Absent-mindedness?
Abstraction? No, but *sustained applause and a little laughter*
An -ing? No (although there is a gerund that is very closely related to the word on the card, and my answers would probably be identical had I picked that word instead). (In fact, pedantically speaking, I think my answer to, say, your (Iroul's) previous question was probably more about the -ing than the -ism.)
AS? No.
Anthropomorphism?
Spoonerism?
Spoonerism? On, but...
Anthropormorphism? Yes! Chalky gets a highly relieved baton
post -traumatic stress
OK-a-a-aay. The baton enjoyed a few hours sleep but only after extensive counselling. Any temporary relief may be short-lived ....

V E G E T A B L E / A B S T R A C T with ANIMAL/MINERAL connections
Is the abstract vegetable metaphorical?
[Raak] Metaphorical? NO
Edible?
Is the abstract a state of the vegetable?
[CdM] A good subject, but I'm trying hard to see how we could have got to it more logically (of course we could have been luckier at times)
Are the animal connections human?
[INJ] No, I don't think it was a very good subject, actually. It seemed clever when I thought of it, but abstract nouns like that tend to be a bit too, well, abstract. I perhaps should have pointed you to think harder about my human construct ("in two distinct ways") answer. Otherwise you are right; my answers felt very vague to me, and it is hard to see how you could have found your way any better.
The grapes of wrath?
CdM] I thought it was a good one - I'd rather too difficult than too easy.
[CdM] Edible? NO
[INJ] Abstract a state of the vegetable? If you mean the condition of the vegetable - then only in the broadest possible sense.
[CdM] Human animal connections? YES
[Irouléguy] The grapes? NO
Is the vegetable growing/alive?
[INJ] Growing/Alive? YES ;)
Is it a geographical entity?
[Phil] Geographical entity? NO
Fictional?
One particular vegetable?
[Quendalon] Fictional? NO
[Rosie] One particular vegetable? Worded thus, your question can only receive a NO/YES/SORT OF reply. Sorry.
Is the vegetable wood?
[Irouléguy] Wood? NO
I can't believe it has gone this long without someone asking, so.....does it begin with 'P'?
[Bigsmith] Does it begin with a 'P'? ONE of the words on the card does!
Many plants all of the same type?
To try to resolve Rosie's question!
Is it "The Great Pumpkin"?
A quality or characteristic of a vegetable?
Is it connected to a particular human?
[INJ] Many plants all of the same type? In a manner of speaking - YES. *audience applauses*
[Kim] The Great Pumpkin? NO
[Quendalon] Quality or characteristic of a vegetable? I shall say YES with slight reservations because I wouldn't wish to lead you astray :-)
[Tuj] Any particular human? Most definitely NO - the human[animal]/mineral element merely supports the main definition, ie. these components make it happen.
A forest or wood?
Does the answer relate to a particular sense?
(As in smell, etc)
[Rosie] A forest or a wood? NO [but you're moving in the right direction re: the 'vegetable']
[INJ] Relate to a particular sense? *audience applauds an excellent question* Not a straightforward YES here - the answer has connections with sensory organs.
The scented garden?
[Software] Scented garden? NO
Tactile connections?
[Quend] Tactility? um ... NO - by saying that, I'm trying to be helpful :-)
Are the vegetables trees?
{Irouléguy] Are the vegetables trees? NO! You have already asked the wood question :)
An allotment?
[Rosie] An Allotment? NO
Are vegetebles mainly flowers?
[Rosie] Vegetables mainly flowers? They could be - in this particular instance [the Abstract element] they are not.

CLUE: 'Vegetable' can mean something other than a fruit, a plant, an ebible vegetable, a tree, a forest, a flower etc.
ebible? ebible?
Roots?
Chalky] What's wrong with an e-bible? God gave Moses the Ten Commandments on two Tablets, remember ;)
The Pollen Count?
[Irouléguy] Roots? NO - but much much closer because ..

ImNotJohn has tapped straight into my wavelength with a perfect answer!
*sneezes then hands over the baton*
Wipes the baton carefully
I nearly guessed that a couple of days earlier
So let's start again with ABSTRACT/MINERAL
A geological feature?
[CdM]geological feature? - NO
A work of art?
Fictional?
Is the mineral metal of some kind?
[GIII] But is it art? - NO
[Quen] Fictional? - Might be, might not be
[Bigsmith] Metal? - NO
Is it a mineral of myth or legend?
[Kim] Mithril or legendary? - NO
Unique?
Human construct?
A figure of speech?
[Quen] Unique - NO
[CdM] Human etc. - YESish
[Raak] Figure of Speech - YES (applause)
Is it a saying specific to a region or country?
[G111] Region/country specific? - NO
Language-specific?
Feet of clay?
Having a go from the halfway line.
[CdM] The answer is in a specific language ;-)
Could it be in another? - I don't know, and I don't think it would help if I did
[Rosie] Floating like a butterfly? - NO (tipping it over the bar with nonchalant ease)
Is the word "rock" on the card?
A ton of bricks?
Is the mineral iron?
This shouldn't take long
[Quen] Rocky? - NO
[Raak] ton of bricks? - NO
[Dujon] ironic? - NO
Grounds for complaint?
Isthe mineral water?
Is the language English?
(Raak) Is the mineral water what? I think it is, actually. We'll see.
[Software] - Grounds for complaint? - NO
[Raak] watery? - NO
[Rosie] In English? - YES (sorry, I wasn't trying to be clever)
Is the mineral silicon based?
[Glll] silicon-based? - YES is the most helpful answer (*applause*)
Burying one's head in the sand?
cyber space?
Nearly there
[Glll] - Ostriching? - NO (but plenty more applause)
[Software] Cyber space - NO (they fall silent again)
Is the word sand in the answer?
[Glll] 'sand' in answer - YES
The sands of time?
[Raak] egg-timer? - NO
Keep trying
Shifting sands?
Cassandra? Sandra Day O'Connor? Pinsand needles?
A line in the sand?
oh, I bet that's right...
And the next one please
And Rosie gets it! The answer is 'A line in the sand'.
*Baton passed carefully without stepping too far*
*Somewhat startled, reaches over silicaceous demarcation zone and grabs the precious icon.*.

This time, it's - A N I M A L

Is it human?
(G III) Human? - certainly is
alive?
British?
(INJ) Alive? - Could be.
(Raak) British? - Could be.
Is it, at any given moment , a single specific human being?
(e.g., 200 meters hurdles world record holder)
(CdM) Not a single specific person in the way you mean.
A class of being, i.e. police?
Fictional?
Since the "could be" I can't get "Hong Kong Phooey, number one superguy; Hong Kong Phooey, quicker than the human eye" out of my head. Thanks, Rosie. I wonder if that's what inspired Software (hello hello? Police Headquarters).
(Software) - YES, sort of.
(ISP) It makes me think of Monty Python's Nudge, Nudge sketch.
(ISP) Just realised I hadn't answered your question. NO, not fictional.
Both male and female?
Might this person oft times be referred to as 'religious'?
(CdM) No hermaphrodites. One sex only.
(Dujon) Not essentially a religious person.
The occupant of some office?
It is more than one person, right?
(Raak) If you mean the office as a room, then NO.
(CdM) slightly hesitantly, YES
The holder of some position?
That sort of office.
(Raak) Holder of some position? - YES, but not quite in the usual sense. *approving murmurs from the audience*
Male?
(Irg) Male? - Certainly is. *More approving murmurs*
The winner of some competition?
The son and heir?
(Raak) - Not a competition winner.
(Irg) No, that would be impossible. *some discreet sniggers amongst wittier members of the audience*
Eunuchs?
(Bigsmith) "....and Goebbels had no balls at all"? NO, though strictly there is no reason why the subject(s) may not be differently-orchidised.
A child?
(Graham III) - NO, not a child.
Clarification:- My reply to Irouléguy has a temporal significance.
Do you have to be a certain age to be this?
The holder of some kind of record?
(Irouléguy) - Age limits? - YES, in effect, though not in a formal sense.
(Tuj) Not a record-holder.
The oldest man in the world?
[INJ] I was going to ask that a day or so ago, but the animal's not necessarily alive. I asked my previous question to completely rule it out.
A group defined by having experienced/lived through a particular event?
[Tuj] Yes, you're right - it's ruled out for a few reasons (like, not a single specific person) - Scrub that and try this one.
(INJ) (Qu. 1) Not the oldest man in the world. Nothing to do with his age, actually.
(Qu. 2) NO, but an event is involved. *Sort-of approving noises from the audience*
Is the event in the future?
For example, the team to represent GBR in the men's 4x100m sprint relay at the Beijing Olympics.
(Bigsmith) A future event team? NO, the event is basically now but could be in the recent past.
Associated with one particular country?
(Tuj) NO, not associated with one particular country.
Begins with P?
Knew I'd forgotten something.
(Tuj) Perfectly preposterous proposition, pal - er, Not P.
Does the word 'veteran' appear on the card?
(Dujon) The word "veteran" - NO, no old soldiers.
Is the related 'event' to do with family?
Dead man's shoes?
Grasping at straws
(INJ) - Family? Very much so, Gary. *vigorous applause*
(Softers) - The straws got away. Not "Dead man's shoes"
The father of the bride?
[Rosie] Surely you meant 'Very much so, yes; Gary'
*suspects INJ has given it away*

but just in case... A father-in-law?
(INJ) NO, not the bride's father. re "Gary" - you may well be right. :-)
(Irg) Worth the shot, but not him either.
To do with a birth?
(probably just as well - I won't be posting on Thursday or Friday, so I'd better not win this)
A godfather?
(INJ) Fear not; you haven't. It's nothing to do with a birth. Good luck on K2 and see you Saturday.
(Phil) NO, not a godfather.
Defined by relationship(s) with others?
A grandfather?
(Quendalon) NO, not defined by any relationship.
(Irouléguy) Not a grandfather.
Dutch Uncle?
(Software) NO, not a Dutch Uncle.
The head of the family?
(Irouléguy) NO, not the head of the family.
Related to geographical location?
(Quendalon) NO, no geographical connection.

Hint: You're all missing a feature of the answer that has been the subject of two questions and answers.

Is there more than one of these in a family?
Is there one of these in most families?
Having seconds, as no-one else has had a go for a while.
A maiden aunt?
Sperm?
(Irg) Both questions - There could be. Not relevant, really.
(Raak) Not a maiden aunt. (It's male)
(Quendalon) Sperm? NO. A fully-formed male person.
Best man?
YESSSS! Raak is the best man! Speech!
An alarm clock?
[Rosie] Good one, although the audience surely could have given INJ's 'father of the bride' a little encouragement. I'm still confused by the audience reaction to 'son and heir', though.
Unaccustomed as I am...
[CdM] If the happy couple's son was the best man at their wedding...

The next is M I N E R A L.

Metal?
[Raak] Unusual perhaps, but not "not possible"
Art?
And the son & heir of whom was not defined. My best man was the son and heir of the father of the groom for example...
[CdM] Made of metal.
Unique?
One metal only?
(CdM) Raak's explanation of the "son and heir" audience reaction is what I was thinking of, though I agree it's a bit convoluted and overdone.
Begins with P?
[Rosie] I was more confused as to why the answer to "Alive?" was "could be"
[I] Not unique.
[R] One metal? Possibly, perhaps likely, but not useful to know.
[T] P.
Man-made?
[Q] Man-made.
Does it use electricity?
(Tuj) Well, my Dad's best man is dead, as no doubt are Henry VIII's. I could have said "Yes, at the time" but that would have been giving too much away.
Any moving parts?
[Rosie] Not usually electric.
[CdM] Yes, there are moving parts.
When not electric, is it powered by hand or foot?
Larger than a toaster?
[R] When not electric, it is powered by (at least one of) hand or foot. (Murmurings in the audience.) Ok, partly powered.
[I] Not larger than a toaster.
A timepiece?
[Rosie] (the audience almost applaud) Not a timepiece.
Is it a domestic item?
Used in the kitchen?
Scales?
[Raak] I wonder what that sounds like ;)
[R] Npot domestic.
[I] ...hence not used in the kitchen.
[Tuj] Not scales.
[Tuj] The sound of two hands clapping, but not against each other.
BELLOWS . . . whoops, sorry . . . bellows?
Do people own these things?
A tool?
[D] Not bellows.
[R] People own these.
[I] In a general sense, yes. (Is a pencil a tool? Is a kettle a tool? In that sense, this thing is a tool.)
Associated with leisure?
This weekend I was at a 20th anniversary celebration - we had also been at the wedding, where the best man was the son and heir of the groom (he was a widower).
[INJ] Er...yes, associated with leisure.
A compass?
Also, can you answer my first question?
[GIII] Sorry, missed that. Not art, and not a compass.
Anything to do with television?
Can one person, alone, make full use of it for its intended purpose?
[R] Not directly connected with TV.
[Q] More than one person must be involved.
Is it a game?
[Rosie] (the audience grow alert but not yet excited) Not a game.
Is it a toy?
[Phil] Not a toy.
Associated with sport(s)?
[Q] (applause!) Yes, associated with sports.
Associated with a ball game?
A boule?
[I] Not associated with a ball game.
[G] ...not even in French.
Associated with athletics?
a dart?
A starter's pistol?
[Rosie] (cheering) Associated with athletics.
[Software] Not a dart.
[Phil] **BANG** A starter's pistol.
Really? Gosh! I'll try and think of a new one in the morning.....way too "sleepy" right now.
Till now, I'd even forgotten I'd won, that's how "sleepy" I was.

OK, out next AVMA is VEGETABLE

Begins with P?
Unique?
Edible?
[Tuj] P? NO
[Quendalon] Unique? NO
[Irouléguy] Edible? NO - a titter from the audience
Made of wood?
Potable?
[Rosie] Made of wood? Partially
[Dujon] Potable? NO
Something constructed?
A British Rail Sandwich?
surely inedible?
[Irouléguy] Constructed? Not my first choice of word, but YES.
[Software] BR Butty? NO - I wouldn't put too much emphasis on the audience's titter.
Normally found in the home?
Bigger than a washing machine?
Toasters have been way too privileged in this game.
[INJ] Normally found in the home? It can be.
[CdM] Bigger than a washing machine? YES and NO - depends how you measure "bigness"
Main purpose decorative or display?
I take your answer to CdM to mean: greater in at least 1 dimension, but with a lesser volume than a 600mm x 600mm x 900mm toaster.
[INJ] Mainly decorative? Hmmmm... NO
Re: CdM's question: My answer, in this instance, means larger in at least 1 dimension, but lesser in volume than a standard domestic washing machine (approx 900 x 600 x 600mm). By the way, you have a very big toaster!
Broom?
A tool?
CdM may have said washing machine, but the traditions of the game dictate that he must have meant toaster
does it begin with a P?
[INJ] Maybe he said 'washing machine' because if you say 'toaster' to Phil he puts a bag on his head...
[Quendalon] Broom? NO
[INJ] Tool? NO
[IS,P!] Begin with P? Still NO. And can I take the bag off now please?
Is it used in sport?
Part of the structure of a house?
[Chalky] Used in sport? NO
[Rosie] Part of structure of house? NO *a little applause*
Is it significantly longer than it is wide?
[CdM] Length much > width? Not necessarily, but can be.
A crawling board?
[Rosie] Crawling board? NO
Is this designed to protect?
[Dujon] Designed to protect? Partially YES, but not exclusively to protect.
Is it something like ivy, which covers a house and can project but may not be considered decorative?
That was a lot of words!
[Software] Something like ivy? NO
Would it normally contain something?
[Chalky] A container? NO
Easily portable?
[INJ] Easily portable? NO
Some kind of door or entrance?
We know that it is wholly vegetable but only partially made out of wood. So
Is it primarily (say, more than 90%) wood?
[Rosie] Door or entrance? NO
[CdM] > 90% wood? NO
Is the bit that's not wood some form of natural vegetation?
[Chalky Ntural vegetation? Not in its original form. Don't forget that this has been "contructed", although that is not the most ideal word to convey what has happened to the vegetable constituents.
Is it fewer than 10% wood?
[Phil] I just did that to annoy you. :-)
If not "constructed" would "fashioned" or "sculpted" (either) be a more appropriate description?
[CdM] <10% wood? NO (Me? Annoyed? Nonsense! *unclenches teeth*
[Rosie] Fashioned/sculpted? NO. Probably further from ideal than "constructed", in fact.
Essentially an outdoors object?
[Rosie] Outdoors? NO
Does this comprise of wood (combined with something else) which has been shredded/chipped and then moulded?
Is this always 100% vegetable? (no screws, nails, glue, ink...)
[Dujon] Shredded wood combined with something else and moulded? I think that warrants a YES - *relieved applause*
[CdM] Always 100% vegetable? Good question. Further research reveals a trace of mineral that I was previously unaware of, plus some pigment that may be vegetable or mineral. But essentially I'd say YES, at least 99.5% vegetable. *some more applause*
Would the typical morniverser own one?
Wood chipping mulch/dressing?
[CdM] Would a Morniverser own one? Probably not, but possibly.
[Software] Wood chippings? NO
Paper involved?
[INJ] Paper? NO
"Processed wood" eg chipboard?
[Rosie] Processed wood? NO
Is it MDF?
A little summary perhaps...
The answer on the card is almost entirely vegetable (over 99%) with a trace of mineral, and perhaps some animal. Wood makes up between 10 and 90% of it. It is partially, but not exclusively designed to protect, but is not mainly decorative.
Shredded wood combined with something else and moulded got a YES, but it's not perfectly accurate. It also got some applause. Other applause has been for "part of the structure of a house?", although the answer was NO. Also, querying if it was always 100% vegetable received some applause - mainly for being such a good question.
It is larger, in at least one dimension than a washing-machine-sized toaster. It is not "fashioned or sculpted" from wood. Technically-speaking it is constructed, but that is not how I would put it.
...more...
It does not begin with P; is not a tool, broom, container or crawling board. It does not involve paper, and is not a type of processed wood (such as chipboard), not is it wood mulch. The typical Morniverser probably doesn't own one, but might. It is not used in sport, is not an outdoors object.
Also, the non-wood part is not natural vegetation in its original form.
[Kim] MDF? NO
Is this wooden percentage made up mainly of bark?
Thanks for the precis, Phil, but that's not the job of the Chair and should be attended by one of his or her fawning acolytes.
Is it part of the structure of any other thing?
As opposed to, say, a house.
Is the "other" vegetable hay?
A hay stack?
[Dujon] Wooden percentage mainly bark? It can be, but doesn't have to be.
[Quendalon] Part of structure of non-house? NO
[Irouléguy] Hay involved? NO
[Software] A haystack? NO
A log cabin?
[Kim] A log cabin? NO
Do you own one?
[GIII] Do I own one? NO
Could one see this in a pub?
Even if not in your revered establishment, my Lord. (Dujon) Will that do?
Related to animals?
[Rosie] Could it be seen in a pub? YES, but not all pubs.
[Quendalon] Related to animals? NO
A pool table?
[Chalky] A pool table? NO - I think that would be less than 99% vegetable.
A skittle alley?
[Software] Skittle Alley? NO - I think that would be bigger than a washing machine-sized toaster
Correction to previous answer I was only asked if it was bigger than the toaster in at least one dimension, to which I replied YES. No-one has yet established in how many (or indeed which) dimensions the item is bigger than a toaster (or washing machine).
Is it longer than a toaster?
Is it longer than a toaster standing on its end?
[IRG] Longer than a toaster? YES
[INJ] Longer than a toaster on end? YES
Typically painted?
I've got the image of something shaped like a door or a kitchen worktop.
Is the wood from a specific type of tree?
Is this a regular shape or is it a bit wigglyish??
[INJ] Painted? Strictly speaking, NO.
[Quendalon] Specific tree? NO
[Chalky] Regular shape? YES
Is it a cuboid (tall, long, not very thick)?
[IRG] Cuboid? YES, but not as you've defined. Here's a clue, as I'm going on holiday on Saturday for a fortnight. Wide, long and not very tall.
A doormat?
[Software] Doormat? NO *Some encouraged applause*
Typically varnished or similarly treated?
[CdM] Typically varnished? NO (although I did have to do some reading to check)
Are there typically pictures of any kind on it?
[Quendalon] Typically pictures on it? NO
A floor covering of some sort?
[Irouléguy] A floor covering? YES *rapturous applause and whoops of delirious delight from the audience*
Stair carpet
or something like that, such as a hall runner?
[Software] Stair carpet? NO *audience believes they may get to cheer today*
Laminate flooring?
[GIII] Laminate flooring? NO *ooohs and aaahs*
Fitted wood flooring?
[IRG] Fitted wood flooring? NO
May I refer you all back to "Shredded wood combined with something else and moulded got a YES, but it's not perfectly accurate. It also got some applause." I think that's slightly helpful without giving it away. Note also that I have had to do some research in order to answer a couple of questions.
Cork flooring?
[IRG] Cork flooring? NO - the wood ingredient can be bark (which is what cork is), but doesn't have to be. Also, less than 90% of the total comes from wood.
Coconut matting?
Getting desperate
[Software] Coconut matting? NO
OK, here comes a major clue. Things don't always look like what they're made of.
Linoleum?
[Chalky] Vinyl floor? I'm afraid not.
[Cdm} Linoleum? YES, dagnammit, YES!
It's made of powdered wood or bark, linseed oil, canvas or burlap (both of which are vegetable), with some pigments (hence the traces of mineral). And in 13 hours' time I go on holiday for 2 weeks. ttfn!
Well, I stood on the shoulders of giants that time. Excellent subject choice, and a very educational round. After Phil's clue I thought it had to be lino, but I needed to google to check because I realized I had no idea what it was made of. I'll be back later today to set a new clue.
[Phil] Have a good trip!
although I suppose maybe you could argue for a vegetable component as well
This one is ANIMAL and ABSTRACT.
An anarcho-syndicalist?
Making a welcome return.
Is the animal human?
CdM] Well guessed
A metaphorical character?
E.g. Essex Man etc
But does it begin with P...?
Anarcho-syndicalist? No.
Human? No.
Metaphorical? Yes, sort of. Character? No.
A well-known phrase or saying?
In a general sense does the animal part relate to a particular type of animal?
(e.g. cat, dog, cow)
It's a jungle out there
Well-known phrase or saying? I think the best answer is Yes.
Particular type of animal? Yes.
Does the animal display some particular characteristic such as the smile of the Cheshire Cat?
Remember, remember, the 5th of November
Particular characteristic? Yes (interpreting "characteristic" somewhat broadly).
Is the animal a mammal?
Particular gender?
A fish?
Begins with P?
Cat got your tongue? ;)
Is it a sleeping dog?
Interesting constellation of questions
Mammal? No.
Particular gender? No.
A fish? Yes. *applause*
Begins with P? No.
Feline tongue entrapment? No (but my internets were broken for most of the day; sorry)
Sleeping dog? No.
A particular type of fish?
Under African Skies
Particular type of fish? Yes.
A red herring??
A red herring? Yes! One smoked baton passed to Néa.
Oh dear
It was the aproposes that did it.

Now for something MINERAL
Man-made?
metallic?
[Raak] Yes.
[INJ] Yes.
Unique?
[Néa] Are you sure that shouldn't be "apropi"?
[CdM] Yes. And yes. "Apropoi", possibly.
Art?
[GIII] Only in a limited sense of the word.
An architectural construction?
[Raak] Yes.

There is a small amount of VEGETABLE involved as well.
A tin roof?
A particular building?
Is/are metal(s) the only mineral element?
More than 200 years old?
Could you (or I) lift it?
The "wobbly" (or Millennium) bridge?
Kaknästornet?
:-)
You've been inquisitive while I was gone
[Software] Not a tin roof.
[Raak] Yes, a particular building.
[Graham III] There are some other mineral components as well, but again very small proportions.
[CdM] Not more than 200 years old.
[Rosie] You and I could not lift it together.
[INJ] Not the Cake Nose Tower!
In Europe?
A building that is open to the public?
[CdM] Yes.
[INJ] No.
In Sweden?
Less than fifty years old?
[Irouléguy] No.
[CdM] No.

[Irg] Sorry, I missed your previous question - it also isn't the Millennium bridge.
Is it more than 119 years old and less than 122 years old?
[CdM] No, it is not both of those things.
Is it in London?
[Raak] Not in London.
Is it in Italy?
[Kim] Nor in Italy.
Eiffel Tower?
Because [CdM]'s question confused me.
Would the small amount of vegitable be growing on the structure?
Is it a bridge?
[Q] Unless I have also confused myself, Néa's answer rules out the Eiffel Tower. (Her answer is semantically interesting, because it can be parsed in two distinct ways, but only one of them is sensible.)
[Q, CdM] No, it is not the Eiffel Tower. My reply to CdM meant that it is not between 119 and 122 years old.
[Software] There may be vegetables growing on it but that was not what I meant.
Is it less than 122 years old?
Progress at last!
[Irouléguy] Yes, yes it is.
The Forth (railway) Bridge?
Does it perform a specific function?
[Néa] You have missed out CdM's bridge question!
[CdM] Not a bridge.
[Rosie] No.
[Bigsmith] Yes.
Is it in England?
Is it a tower?
[Quendalon] No.
[Graham III] Yes.
Is its specific function to broadcast signals?
[Raak] Yes! (audience starting to prick up their ears)
Is it north of Paris?
Still in use?
Functional rather than decorative?
Not it's getting more difficult
[Irouléguy] Yes.
[INJ] As far as I have been able to tell, the answer is no.
[Rosie] Yes is probably the best answer, but it's not straightforward.
Is it on land?
[Kim] Yes.
Did it collapse in 1991?
A recap:
A mostly metal broadcasting tower in Europe, but not in England, Italy, or Paris, built at least 50 years ago but less than 119, still in use, not open to the public, not the Cake Nose Tower, more southerly than Paris.
The original Radio Luxemburg transmitter?
Raak] More northerly than Paris.
Resisting the temptation to get another question in
[Raak] Probably not still in use.
[Graham III] No, it didn't.
[Irg] Not the original Radio Luxemburg transmitter.
Is it in Scandinavia?
[Raak] No.
Is it in Western Europe?
(i.e. one of Germany, France, Belgium, Luxembourg, Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, The Netherlands and outlying islands)
Being negative today, me
[Graham III] No.
Anything to do with astronomy?
An early warning system?
On an island?
More negativity
[Rosie] No.
[Software] No.
[Quendalon] No.
Is it in a country that used to be in the USSR?
(ie one of Belarus, Ukraine, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia and Russia)
arrow_circle_down
Want to play? Online Crescenteering lives on at Discord