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AVMA Take 2
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Yes, it's another round of that classic guessing game - Animal, Vegetable, Mineral, Abstract [or any combination thereof]. This effort - '03/'04 should address any queries, but then again, may just serve to confuse and baffle which some might say is the point of the game. Patience, integrity and a decent search engine may be useful ....
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[Chalky] Split second? YEEES, I suppose so.
[Rosie] A440, NO
[ISP] Faster than light? NO
[ISP] Has not been/may never be proven? YES! *applause*
The end of the universe?
[Raak] Goodbye to all that? NO
Is it all relative?
The moment of religion, that divides the thought from the action?
[ISP] Relativity? Some might say quite the reverse!
[Raak] Religious moment? NO (don't forget this is quite specifically a measure of time with a particular length and is also scientific jargon)
A chronon?
(The maximum rate of thought being one psychon per chronon.)
[Raak] JUST IN TIME! It IS indeed a chronon, the proposed quantum of time, which is said (in one theory) to be 2x10−23 seconds - considerably longer than the Planck time and not strictly a second x 10-n. I apologise to those who are currently scratching their heads and going "a what?". I had heard of the chronon some years ago, and being an Arts Graduate, tend to assume that anything scientific that I've heard of has been heard of by everyone else at least ten years ago. However, the number of hits I belatedly googled on the topic suggest that perhaps it's not the household word I had at first supposed. I had every faith that Raak would get there eventually, tho! * hands the baton over to Raak so quickly that nobody sees it happen*
I've heard of Chronon the Barbarian... grone
(btw, another way of describing its length is 20 yoctoseconds)
I onyl know the chronon from the SF story "Gulf", by Robert Heinlein.

The next one is MINERAL, VEGETABLE, and ABSTRACT.

Fictional?
[Projoy] Not fictional.
[ISP] Not art. (The audience is amused as it imagines an exhibit with this title.)
Occurs naturally?
[ISP] Not natural.
To do with food?
Manufactured using machines?
[Projoy] Nothing to do with food.
[ISP] Almost invariably.
A household item?
[I] Yes, although most households probably don't have one.
A luxury item?
Begins with P?
[CdM] Not a luxury item.
[Tuj] Does not begin with P.
A piece of furniture?
[Rosie] Not furniture.
A musical instrument?
Having at last got my nice Yamaha digital piano.
[Rosie] I can think of one musical piece where it might be used, but no, not a musical instrument.
Bigger than a toaster?
(trad)
[INJ] Bigger than a toaster.
Newfangled?
A gong?
[Projoy] Not at all newfangled.
[Rosie] Not a gong. That has rather wider musical applications than this does.
A snooker table?
[ISP] As used in Herblfrontwick's Concerto for Snooker Table and Cue Ball? No.
Does the "abstract" refer to a metaphorical meaning of this mineral and vegetable thing?
[CdM] Yes, metaphorical. (Actually, similitudinous, to be precise.)
Victorian?
[Projoy] Not specifically Victorian.
Is the vegetable component wood?
A useful item?
[CdM] Yes, wood.
[ISP] Yes, useful. *the audience approve of these steps along the path to truth*
A fitting (as opposed to furniture)?
A container of some kind?
Does it have moving parts?
[ISP] Not a fitting.
[Rosie] *applause* Part of it is a container.
[INJ] No moving parts.
bigger than a washing machine?
Does it function as a seat?
[Projoy] Smaller than a washing machine.
[Lib] Not a seat.
A tea-chest bass?
[Rosie] Neither a tea-chest bass, a kazoo, a mighty Wurlitzer, nor a bagpipe. The musical angle is really not going to be helpful.
Still widely used today?
[CdM] Still in use.
Is the mineral part metal?
A piece of equipment of some sort?
[INJ] Yes, metal.
[ISP] Yes, it's equipment.
To do with safety?
[Projoy] Not to do with safety.
Away in a Mangle?
Bum. That has moving parts. Scratch it.
Found in the kitchen?
[ISP] Not found in the kitchen.
Is the room in the house going to help? Found in the drawing room?
[ISP] It might. But it is not to be found in the drawing room.
In the Bathroom?
[Lib] Nor in the bathroom.
Downstairs (in a house, not a bungalow of average room structure)?
[Lib] Could be. I think "household item" was misleading, this is merely something you might have in your house. Or in other places.
That's all until this evening -- offline all day.
Is it a barrel of some sort?
[Chalky] Not a barrel.
Might you have it in your car?
[CdM] You might, if you were transporting it somewhere.
Does it come in more than one size?
[Lib] It could be of various sizes.

To recap and give a nudge into a more fruitful path: it's a container of things made of wood and metal, which features in a well-known simile, and which could be found in various places, including the home.

Is it made to hold one specific thing?
[Tuj] It holds one specific type of thing.
A wise old saw?
[Projoy] Er, saws don't contain anything.
[Projoy] Fair point.
[Projoy] *a ripple of interest in the audience* Not a saw, especially not a wise one.
Does it have a lid?
Is it hardware?
A hutch?
A box of tricks?
.. or something like
[Projoy] Probably doesn't have a lid.
[Projoy] *applause* Yes, hardware.
[Projoy] Not a hutch.
[Chalky] *for a moment the audience thought you were going to get it* Not a box of tricks.
The sharpest tool in the box?
[Projoy] *the audience are excited* Not the sharpest tool in the box.
A toolbox?
[Projoy] *applause* In a sense, yes.
Does either of the words "tool" or "box" appear on the card?
[Cdm] Yes.
Boxing Helena? Boxcar Willie? Box girder bridge? Jack-in-the-box?
[ISP] None of the above.
A jewellery box, a matchbox, Pandora's box, my kingdom for a box
Isn't 'not the sharpest tool in the box' more metaphor than simile?
"it's a container of things made of wood and metal"
Is it a container of things, made of wood and metal; or is it a container of things made of wood and metal?
[ISP] None of those either, including "not the sharpest tool in the box".
[ISP] It's a container of things made of wood and metal. What the container is made of isn't important.
Does the word "tool" appear on the card?
[Projoy] "Tool" does not appear on the card.

There are four words, including the indefinite article.

A box of hammers (as in "as dumb as")?
[Projoy] You are sharp as a tack. A box of hammers is the exact phrase on the card.
OK, here's a chance to go for something better known and redeem myself. ANIMAL
Giraffe?
The Archbishop of Canterbury?
Hmm, new one on me.
[Raak] Interestingly enough - googling " a box of ..." "simile" didn't produce 'hammers, which is a phrase I, personally, have never heard before [not that that is relevant because I've obviously led a sheltered life] - yet ... googling " as dumb as a box of hammers .. produced 1,040,000 results! < Thinks >*must learn to play this game betterer*
Edible?
Alive?
"A box of hammers" is not a phrase I have ever heard used by anyone in my long and not-exactly-sheltered life. Maybe the Yanks use it. Well, I'm not a Yank. As if there aren't countless other subjects that could have been used, the words of which exist in everyone's brain, it just being a question of having the inspiration to dig them out. The whole point of the game is that you don't have to Google it, the original game being live with no access to any source of knowledge. Box of Hammers. Stupid.
[Lib] Giraffe? NO
[Tuj] Primate? NO
[Chalky] Edible? NO! *considerable laughter*
[Rosie] Alive? YES

[Rosie] While I had heard the expression 'box of hammers' somewhere in the dim and distant past, enough for me to consider worth googling it for credibility before making my guess, you didn't actually have to have heard of it in order to get the answer. Besides, this game (as CdM once pointed out) is different from the original, and both google, self-education and working outside one's comfort zone are much more part of its fabric. If that makes it harder for those good at rote memorisation of canonical knowledge and easier for those good at on-the-fly research then perhaps that's an unhappy circumstance, but it is at least an index of changes in the world around us! I tend to think it's a good thing, myself, but then I have succesfully googled/guessed quite a lot lately. :) Definitely would concede, having tested it, that chronon was very hard to google up without a fair amount of specialist knowledge and probably therefore inappropriate, but a box of hammers is a concept available to anyone who's heard of hammers and boxes. That said, I would say that my current one shouldn't require google (unless someone asks the wrong question, causing me to give a truthful but obscure and therefore counterintutive and hard-to-synthesise fact about the subject under question).
(Not that there's such a thing as a 'wrong' question in this game, obviously)
A specific, unique thing?
[Tuj] Specific, unique? NO
Does it have legs?
[Chalky] Leggy? YES
2 legs?
4 legs?
6 or more legs?
Legginess quotient? Two possible sets of answers. Either (ignoring the answer to Tuj's question) YES, NO, NO; or - taking Tuj's answer into account - NO, NO, YES
A grouping of animals - e.g. a flange of baboons?
[ISP] A grouping? YES, but not of the type given in your e.g.
Human race?
A group of humans?
Oh dear, did I cause some trouble? I'm confused, at least.
[ISP] Human race? NO
[Tuj] Group of humans? YES *applause*
Primate: no, human: yes. Now I'm confused too.
OK, got it now. It was Projoy's use of the term 'primate'.
Note to self: Read questions AND answers as answers alone may cause confusion.
Are these humans grouped together because of a shared interest?
[UK] A shared interest? YES
Is this interest politcal?
Is it a spiritual/religious interest?
Furries?
[UK] Political? NOT REALLY
[Chalky] Spiritual/Religious? YES! *applause*
[ISP] Furries? NO (my suspicion is that a lot of people would require google for furries!)
I used to Google for furries and then I discovered Smirnoff
A specific sect?
[ISP] A sect? DEPENDS ON POV.
(I would say "no", tho)
Scientologists?
(Projoy) If you have to look up the answer it's no longer a game but a research project brought about largely, I suspect, by the instant accessibility of Google and the desire of certain people to show their specialised knowledge. A bit puerile. It ought to be like the original, a test of general knowledge and the ability to quickly connect and recall what's already in you head. This is not the same as rote knowledge, BTW. So the game no longer depends on the ability to think but on the ability to look things up and is therefore no longer a game, or any fun, but tedious. I'll cross it off my list.
Cross it off your list
[Rosie] Whilst I am with you 100% in being irritated by the plethora of recent 'f**k me that was obscure' targets, I think that after you make your point, and people take it on board, you could enjoy the game once more and continue to contribute as fruitfully as you have in the past. (Hopes Projoy's religion is something that more than ten people have heard of). Please don't go!
[ISP] Scientology? NO.
[Rosie, simul'd by ISP, but since you commented again] I must admit that I find looking stuff up fun (and success in this is totally about ability to think), but I do agree that some of the reward of this game is in either making the right lateral connections to perceive what in retrospect is obvious. Perhaps it would jolly the game up if we swing back for a while to obvious subjects, having had some obscurities on the trot, but equally I can't see any harm in being a bit more tolerant of stuff that falls outside 'Rosie's general knowledge' but within, say, 'Raak's general knowledge' (a category of knowledge in which I for one have found much fascination over the years).
either
Harry H Krishna?
[ISP] Hare, Hare, while stocks last? NO
Quakers?
Is this a Christian group?
[ISP] Quakers? NO
[UK] Xian? NO
Druids?
The Peoples Temple?
Scientologists?
Paganism?
*thinks ISPers may have a short-term memory problem* :-)
[ISP] Druidity? NO
[Chalky] People's Princess Temple? NO
[ISP] Scientology? NO
[Chalky] Paganism? NO
Begins with P?
Better get that in while I can...
Humanism?
Scient.. Arse!
Hindus harmonizin' in the hall?
[Tuj] Parseeism (and its alliterative religions)? NO
[Chalky] Oh, the humanity! NO
[ISP] Hindus? NO
Buddhism?
Is this abstract as well as animal?
Did it start within the last 500 years?
[Rosie] "Dumb as a box of hammers" is a commonplace expression to me; it's difficult to know what will be commonplace to everyone.
Should we be concentrating on -isms?
simul ... What CdM asked.
Sun worshippers [with legs]?
[Chalky] Buddhism? NO
[CdM] Abstract? NO
[Raak] Last 500 years? NO
[Chalky] focusism? It might help you get there, but The Answer is not an ism.
[Chalky] Solarists? NO
Islam?
dumb as a box of... I always thought it was "dumb as a bag of spanners", but the collective wisdom of Google thinks otherwise.
[Ig] Islam? *standing ovation* That is not the answer on the card.
Could it be something as simple as 'Muslims'?
[Chalky] IT COULD **audience applause**
Never heard of 'em.
LOL
Easy-peasy :-)
Now this next one should be well within everybody's intellectual and cognisant reach. However, it may require a smidgin of websearchery as we draw closer to the solution - which is the way I enjoy playing this game.
M I N E R A L / A B S T R A C T
A figurative expression?
Is the mineral metal?
[Raak] Figurative? NO
[Irouléguy] Metal? Largely, NO [there may be traces]
Rock?
Is the mineral stone?
Oops. Misread Raak's simul. WHS.
[Raak, Projoy] Rocky/Stony stuff? YES, plenty of that
A single unique thing?
A work of art?
A human construct?
[Tuj] The one-and-only? YES
[Raak] Artwork? NO
[PJ] Human construct? NO
Naturally occurring?
Fictional?
A geographical feature?
[Projoy] Naturally occurring? YES
[Uncle Korkers] Fictional? NO
[Irouléguy] A geographical feature? Good question. I'm tempted to answer 'Yes' but in fact this is NOT a geographical feature
Does it have anything to do with molten rock?
Does it move?
[Uncle Korkster] Anything to do with molten rock? Yes, molten rock might be in amongst all this.
[PJ] Does it move? YES *audience starts to murmur*
Is this a description of a process?
The Marianas Trench?
A sand dune?
[Uncle Korkee] description of a process? NO
[Raak] The Marianas Trench? NO
[Projoy] A sand dune? NO
*audience goes quiet*
Is it biiiiiiiiiig?
[Projoy] Biiiiiiiiiiig? It's Huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge! *audience cheers*
aside
I'm 'at home' today which is why I'm able to pay attention to my chairing duty. Haven't seen it in ages, but is anyone else watching 'Countdown'? There's a gargantuan bloke in place of the fragrant Suzie Dent. Wha ...?]
reply to aside
That's scandalous! I've spent years watching that show, just for Suzie Dent - she's seriously hot! OK, I do enjoy playing along as well...]
Is it on Earth?
At last! The key question.
[Uncly Kork] On Earth? NO *thunderous applause from audience*
The planet Gliese 581 c?
Is it actually a planet?
*smug*
[Raak] The Planet Gliese 581 c [rather than the star]? NO
[UK] A planet? Well, actually, NO
Is it in the Solar System?
A comet?
[Raak] In solar system? YES
[Projoy] A comet? NO
A satellite?
A dwarf planet?
[Raak] A satellite? YES
[Projoy] A dwarf planet? NO
A moon?
The moons of Jupiter?
[Projoy] A moon? YES *audience senses the end game is here and start to pay attention*
[Projoy] For pity's sake child - tie down the moons of Jupiter? er - NO
A moon of Saturn?
*The* Moon?
Enceladus?
[PJ] A moon of Saturn-and-there-are-plenty-to-choose from? Er - NO
[Raak] OUR moon? NO
[Uncly Korkass] Enceladus? I refer the honourary member to my previous reply which went PJ-wise :-)
Charon?
One of Mars'?
One of Neptune?
*no longer smug*
[Projoy] Charon? NO
[Tuj] Marses moonses? No, neither
[Uncle Korks] Neptune moon? YES!
Proteus?
Triton
There are only eleven others, so we're nearly there...
[Chalky] If you like, you can assume I will ask all the other questions. :)
Does it have a name?
Nereid?
What's in a name?
[Raak] They all seem to have names. Are you confusing Neptune with Jupiter/Saturn?
[Projoy] Proteus? NO
[Uncle Korks] Nereid? NO
[Raak] A name? YES because ..

*fanfare* The victory goes to I Say, Lurker who popped into this game just at the right time.
TRITON it is, Neptune's largest moon, the seventh largest in the solar system, and one that even I've heard of. Thanks Raak, Uncle Korky and Projoy for your sterling efforts :-)
Hey, Good Lurkin'
[Chalky] That'll teach me to take a day off work.
Another easy one? ANIMAL
Hang on a mo... looks up 'Abstract' in dictionary. Decides 'bollocks to it' and leaves it as is.
A single individual?
Human?
[ISP] Maybe it's that the Greek minor god of the Sea, Triton, is abstract?
[PJ] I wasn't thinking about Chalky's Abstract actual existing real satellite, but now you mention it...
[Raak] Single individual - YES
[Projoy] Human - YES. Told you it was easy.
Alive?
[UK] Living? Not as such.
Alive in the 20th Century?
[UK] Sorry, I meant 'Not alive as such'.
... enters into deep philosophical contemplation about whether he should have used 'Abstract'
Fictional?
[UK] Fictional - YES *applause*
Aha! British author?
Definitely abstract then, as I found out to my cost a few games back! :-)
Abstract schmabstract.
[UK] British Author? NO
I'm gonna let someone else have a go.
Jumping in!
Begins with a P? :D
\
Is the fiction set in the real world?
Does the character appear in more than one publication by the author?
Does this person originally appear in a book?
Is the character female?
[Tuj] What an unexpected question! P? - NO
[Raak] Real World? - I'll say a tentative NO to that one
[INJ] More than one publication? - YES
[UK] Book? "a set of pages that have been fastened together inside a cover to be read or written in" - YES
[Irg] Female? NO
Did this person first appear in print in the 20th century?
[UK] C20? YES
Is there more than one author overall?
[UK] +1 Author? - YES
Doctor Who?
[Raak] Time Lord? - NO
[Raak] Can't be - not a British author (see above). I'm going to have a wild stab in the dark at the answer (got a gut feeling...)
Is it Asterix?
[UK] Three points for a Gaul? NO
Bo**ox.
However... this doesn't mean my line of questioning is dead... Are the authors Goscinny & Uderzo?
[UK] Goscinny & Uderzo? Nope. That rules out Lucky Luke an' all.
Definite bo**ox.
Originally written in English?
[INJ] Written in English? YES
Have the works this character appears in been filmed?
[UK] Filmed? YES
A cartoon/comic/graphic novel character?
[Raak] cartoon/comic/graphic novel character - YES * thunderous applause *
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