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AVMA Take 2
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Yes, it's another round of that classic guessing game - Animal, Vegetable, Mineral, Abstract [or any combination thereof]. This effort - '03/'04 should address any queries, but then again, may just serve to confuse and baffle which some might say is the point of the game. Patience, integrity and a decent search engine may be useful ....
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Was he born before 1900?
[Inkspot] Yes, born prior to 1900.
Involved in any of the creative arts?
[Rosie} Yes.
Born prior to 1700?
[Projoy] Yes, born prior to 1700.
In the Music Field?
[StormWraith] Not Music.
Is he in a visual art?
[StormWraith] Not a visual art per se.
Was he a Greek?
[Inkspot] Not Greek.
British?
[Lib] Jolly good, I say! Yes, British. (the audience stirs and begins humming "Rule Brittania")
A writer
I mean "A writer?"
Born prior to 1500?
[Rosie] Yes, a writer.
[Projoy] Born after 1500.
A playwright?
[Rosie] Yes, he wrote plays.
Shakespeare?
`
[Projoy] YES, the Bard of Avon it is. Over to you.
OK, here's a MINERAL/ABSTRACT.
Anything to do with the present season?
Stone?
[Raak] To do with the present season? NO
[Inkspot] Stone? YES
Stonehenge?
Is this two meanings for the same word, one mineral, one abstract?
[irach] Stonehenge? NO
[Rosie] Two meanings? YES, but then again NO. Not sure which is the most helpful answer, really.
Is it the rock of ages?
[Kim] Aged Rock? NOPE
Connected with a geographical feature?
[Rosie] Not connected with a geographical feature.
Does it have religious significance?
[Inkspot] religious significance? NO (a couple of mutters from the audience, but basically they agree)
The Stone of Scone?
[Raak] Symbol of temporal power in Scotland? NO.
Is it unique?
[Inkspot] Unique? NO is the best answer.
An artistic depitction?
[Rosie] Artistiction? NO
Does it feature in a legend?
[rab] Features in a legend? Strictly, NO, although a small change to your question would yield a YES.
Is there a specific, finite number of them?
Does it appear in mythology?
[Raak] A specific, finite number of them? NO
[Inkspot] Appears in mythology? I'm reasonably sure that's a NO, altho my research wasn't exhaustive.
It depends a bit on your definition of "mythology" and "legend", come to think of it. Probably best to regard NO as the most helpful answer in those cases, but you're approaching the right sort of area.
Some kind of fictional story?
[rab] (pretending to mishear the question) Fictional? YES!
Is the type of mineral any more specific than "stone"?
[rab] More specific than stone? NO
Does it have origins in a particular culture?
A heart of stone?
[Inkspot] Originates in a particular culture? NOT SURE. Sources are a bit unclear on this point.
[Raak] Heart of stone? NO.
It's not . . . . dilithium crystals, is it?
[Rosie] NO, IT'S NOT
[Rosie] Actually there is a very, very, very obscure connection to a particular variety of dilithium.
Then again, I am slightly drunk.
Is it fictional?
Is its signifance connected to a specific individual (possibly fictional)?
Is there a connection to an event?
sober now...
[Raak] Fictional? YES (see answer to rab's "misheard" question above)
[rab] SORT OF. Its significance isn't dependent on a specific individual, but there are specific individuals associated with it.
[Inkspot] Connected to a particular event? NO, NOT REALLY (except in a pretty trivial sense).
Could you name those specific individuals? And would you be able to get them all into the 'Stance' box?
(I don't actually want you to do this, merely know if it's possible...)
[rab] Could I name those individuals? YES, although it would be subjective as there's certainly no canonical list of them. Would they all fit into the "stance" box? I WOULD HAVE THOUGHT SO for most people's lists. An academic in the right field might be able to overflow the stance box, but most reasonably erudite people would probably name four or so names.
Are the people fictional as well?
[Inkspot] Are the people fictional? NO, by and large.
Are these precious stones?
Is the word "stone" on the card?
Do the stones go back to the time of the Greeks and Romans?
Arthurian connection?
The alchemists' stone?
back online now
[Raak] Precious stones? NO *sustained applause from the audience*
[CdM] The word "stone" IS on the card *mounting excitement from audience*
[Inkspot] Back to Greek and Roman times? YES
[rab] Arthurian connection? NOT THAT I'M AWARE OF
[CdM] Alchemists' stone? YES. The words on the card were "Philosopher's Stone", and I have to say I'm very upset that Tuj never popped up with his normal question! I got in a bit of a tizzy over the legend/myth questions. To my knowledge, the philosopher's stone doesn't appear in a particular myth or legend or in what is conventionally called mythology (i.e. of the Greek and Roman variety), but one could call it a mythical or legendary object, so a hard one to answer helpfully. * transmutes baton into finest gold and hands to CdM*
All right, here we go again

ABSTRACT
Global Warming?
Not getting warmer at all
Global Warming? No.
Visible?
Human construct?
Fictional?
Visible? Yes.
Human Construct? Yes.
Fictional? No, although there are a few connections to works of fiction.
Something used as a symbol?
A slightly tricky one
Symbol? I think the most helpful answer is no.
Smoke?
Mirrors?
An action?
An emotion?
Does it involve all mankind, or a select few?
Coming up empty
Smoke? No. (Abstract?)
Mirrors? No. (Abstract?)
An action? No.
An emotion? No.
Does it involve all mankind? I'm not sure that it makes much sense to talk of this "involving people", but if you insist on an answer, I would say that it does not involve all mankind.
A metaphor?
Really not getting very far
Metaphor? No.
Is it ever used as a means of communication?
OK, now we're getting somewhere
Used as means of communication? While that is not its primary use, it can be used as a means of communication in certain circumstances.
An art form?
Speaking too soon...
An art form? No.
Is the "primary use" an invention?
Too, too soon
Invention? It is a human construct that was invented, but you wouldn't normally call it an invention.
Is any technology necessarily involved?
Is it a process?
[CdM] Not sure I care for your patronising tone.
Sorry - that was a bit harsh as usual. I read your last comment as "Of course a human construct is a human invention you idiot" but re-reading it I suspect my first reading was incorrect. Unfortunately, I can't work out what your last comment does mean...
I apologise unreservedly
Technology involved? Not really, except for a very broad definition of technology.
Process? No.

[rab] Wow, sorry -- I assure you that wasn't meant to be in the slightest bit patronising. My pedantic answer simply reflected the confusion I often feel when answering seemingly simple questions in this game. "Invention" conjures up to my mind steam engines, spinning jennies, COBOL, and the like -- and it would be odd to describe the subject on the card as an invention in that sense. On the other hand somebody did presumably invent this thing, so it would be misleading to say no as well.
S'ok - I did over-react. Likewise I find a problem in this game is in asking questions that don't completely give away the thing(s) you think they might be.

Does it exist?

'Course it does, idiot
Does it exist? Yes.
Not a ghost, then.
Is it electromagnetic radiation?
Did it exist 100 years ago?
Electromagnetic radiation? No. (This thing is abstract, but it does typically have a physical manifestation, so you can add "with ANIMAL, VEGETABLE AND/OR MINERAL connections" to the description, if you like.)
Did it exist 100 years ago? Yes.
Does it involve words?
Does it involve words? Yes. *prolonged applause from audience*
Rap?
(You said it wasn't an art form)
Are these words in spoken form?
Poetry?
Music and words?
Do the words originally come from one particular language?
Drama?
A musical?
Rap? Nope.
Are the words in spoken form? No.
Poetry? No, although there can be a connection.
Nineteen-forties movie? No.
One language? No.
Plays? No.
Evita? No.
In written form, then?
Is it the game of AVMA on mc5?
Ah, wait a minute - that's mostly one language... so change that to MC on the web
Actually, scrap that again - no technology, existed 100 years ago. Hmmm, stumped.
Written form? Yes. (Obviously, the words in question could be read, but the words on the card are associated with a written form.)
AVMA on the web (or not)? No.
Is it an epitaph?
RIP? The answer is not an epitaph, although there very occasionally is a connection.
Are you in need of a clue yet? ...
Because I have actually already given you some clues already.
Anything to do with religion?
God help us.
Birthday greetings?
Do the words on the card describe a particular formation of words?
Is this associated with a specific occasion or event?
"The words on the card"?
[Projoy] I was going to ask that...
Religion? There are occasional connections.
Birthday greetings? No.
Particular formation of words? Not exactly sure what you mean, but I think the best answer is yes. *some confused applause*
Associated with specific occasion? No.
Words on the card? No.
To do with nomenclature?
An advertising slogan
[CdM] By "particular formation of words" I meant something like an epitaph, birthday greeting or, indeed, an advertising slogan.
...or perhaps a particular form of verse or...
To do with nomenclature? In some cases, but by no means necessarily.
Advertising slogan? No.
[rab] Then I continue to think that the best answer is yes, although the answer is certainly not a unique formation of words such as "Just do it"
A condolence?
Typically appearing in printed form rather than manuscript?
Related to a particular time in people's lives?
Condolence? No.
Do you write it down? It could be either, but, yes, most instances would be printed.
Marriage, birth, death, divorce, christening...? No.
Is the meaning of the words relevant to what's written on the card?
Meaning relevant? No.
An invitation?
equal rights (as expressed in legislation)
Is it associated with the legal profession?
Is it work-related?
Come as you are? No.
Legislated equality? No.
Unethical? No.
Ergological? No.
Anything medical?
Some sort of certification?
Associated with a particular writing system?
A list of words?
A decloration?
Is the form of the words relevant to what's written on the card?
Is the setting of this one self-referential?
Anything Medical? No.
Certification? No
Riting or Reading or Rithmatic system? No.
"Of", "But", "Transubstantiate", "Legume", "Velocity"? Only vaguely.
Statement of intent to declare something to say? No.
To what's written on the card is the form relevant? Yes.
Is it self-referential? No, but...
Could be...
A clue?
A sentence?
Is there likely to be a particular length to which this form of words runs or could it range significantly from, say a few words to hundreds?
Is this form of words written by a particular group of people?
Do I have to spell it out for you?
A clue? No.
Verb-containing syntactically independent grammatical unit? No.
Many or few words? No particular length, though not arbitrarily short and usually not very long.
Authored by a particular group of people? No.
Is it spelling?
Anything to do with synonyms (or antonyms)?
Anything to do with translation
(rudely taking two goes)
Crying in my beer
Spelling? No.
Opposites (or sames)? No.
Babelfish? No.
Does this usually appear in a particular format of writing (eg newspaper, novel, magazine)?
Gah! An ACROSTIC?
I feel guilty even offering that answer, as it's now so obvious.
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
I am the stupidest person in the whole world and my only consolation is that most of the rest of you were equally stupid.
I'm tempted to say that CdM won that round and should continue with the next clue.
Oh bollocks.
Give that man an beer. We were defeated good and proper.
Beer would be great! I'm delighted and flattered that I've been invited to come back and set one more clue, and yet now I'd rather retire unrequited.
Very well, then. On CdM's behalf*, here's an ANIMAL/MINERAL/ABSTRACT thingumabob.
* this means you can blame him if it's too hard
Is it some kind of idiom?
Course it's not, you idiom.
[rab] an idiomat? NO
There's a case for describing this as an (ANIMAL) (MINERAL) (ABSTRACT (ANIMAL) ), but maybe that's taking pedantry to new extremes.
Is the animal part human?
(By the way, I think that one of the reasons I inadvertantly insulted rab was that, at the beginning, my comment lines were an acrostic of "an acrostic". Thus my "Too, too soon" comment, which may have been what conveyed the unintended patronising tone. Also, I apologize for some of my slow responses, but they were partly because I was waiting for enough questions to put acrostics in my answers, and partly because good acrostics were hard to compose.)
(Either animal part...)
Is it something I'd encounter in everyday life?
Um, Projoy?
I think you were handed a baton, actually.
[CdM] Is either animal part human? YES
[rab] Something you'd encounter in everyday life? NO
[Néa] Me? NO :)
Is there more than one of these?
[Projoy] It's poor form to point to one's own cleverness, but I think Néa was referring to the fact that my AVMA sign-off above was actually an acrostical limerick.
[CdM] More than one? The best answer is NO, on several counts.
[CdM] re: limerick - Too subtle, too subtle!
Bloody hell, CdM! Here, have this round of applause that's been looking for a home.
Noah's Ark?
Oops
Pressed 'stand' too soon. I meant to add my congrats to CdM - excellent!
[Ig] Big Boat Wot Has Animals In? NO
Is it fictional?
A trophy?
Is it the name of something?
Actually, you could probably argue anything is the name of something, so let's change that to:
Is it a title of a book/film/poem/...?
[Inkspot] Fictional? YES, in essence
[Raak] Trophy? NO
[rab] The name of something? YES (and not in the same way that just anything is
[rab] Title of cultural product? NO (that I'm aware of)
Someone's nickname?
A legendary being?
[Raak] A nickname? NO * an audient claps a couple of times, but tails off when no-one else joins in *
[rab] Legendary? NO *smiles in the audience*
Is it a person?
To do with religion?
Is it a place?
[rab] A person? Hm. YES and NO
[Raak] Religious connection? NO
[Ink] A place? NO
Is the other animal part a specific animal?
Is the human part that is and is not a person a character of myth?
Sandman/Tooth Fairy type person?
Is it a something-man?
[Ig] Other part (the part that isn't human) a specific animal? YES
[Kim] You've slightly misread my response. I didn't say that there was a human part that was and wasn't a person. I said the whole thing was and wasn't a person. That said, the human part, as it happens might be described as being and not being a person. But the human part is not a character of myth. Glad to have cleared that up. :)
[Ink] Sandman/Tooth Fairy or generic substitute? NO
[rab] A something-man? In quite a broad sense, YES (but possibly not the one you're thinking of).
Did it originate in a particular culture more than 2000 years ago?
[Inkspot] Originated...particular culture... 2000 years ago? NO
Is the word "Man" on the card?
Is the mineral part man made?
[Kim] Word "man" on card? NO
[Inkspot] Mineral man made? YES
It's rather late to fess up to this, but I think there is probably a VEGETABLE element to this too (having said which, its absence hasn't really proven critical in the questioning as yet, nor probably will it).
Anything to do with warfare?
[Ig] Warfare? NO *some laughter*
Is it a part of a person?
[Raak] Parts of persons? YES. One 'animal' is part of a person; the other 'animal' is partially a person.
Is the "partially person" a ghost?
[rab] Ghosties and ghoulies? NO
Is the supernatural involved?
[Raak] Supernatural? NO
Here's our Graham with a quick reminder
Handy summary: It's an ANIMAL, VEGETABLE, MINERAL, (ABSTRACT (ANIMAL)). On the card is a name - the name of something essentially fictional that is and isn't a person. One of the animal parts is part of a human, the other animal part is partially a person, and partially another specific animal. The mineral part is man-made. It isn't supernatural or mythical.
Is the specific animal a mammal?
[rab] Mammal? YES
Did this first appear in a specific work of fiction?
[Ig] Appeared first in a specific work... YES is the best answer, altho one might quibble with it slightly.
Is the work of fiction European?
[Ig] Fiction European? YES
English language?
Is it from a comic?
[rab] Eng. Lang.? OUI
[Ink] Comic? NO
Is the work of fiction a book?
[rab] Book? NO
A Shakespeare play?
A film?
[Ig] Shakespeare play? NO (not a play at all, in fact)
[Ink] Film? NO
Is it any form of writing?
[rab] Originating work of fiction a written form? NO
Is the mineral part of the viewing medium rater than an object like a spoon?
rater/rather
Is this the name of a painting?
[Ink] Mineral part of the viewing medium? NO
[Raak] Painting? NO
Does the originating work of fiction exist (or has it existed) in any concrete, tangible form?
[rab] Original work concrete? Almost not sure how to answer. Would, say, a CD or a score of a piece of music count as concrete and tangible for the purposes of the question (originating form is not a piece of music, btw)? If you'd say yes, then YES, if you'd say no, you meant something like a painting or a sculpture where the idea and its expression in concrete form are pretty much analogous, then NO. :) (© Overthinking Services Ltd)
So, the work itself is not a tangible representation, but it can be tangibly represented?
[Raak] I think I'm in danger of leading you into a siding here. So that we can get back on the main track, let me reveal that the medium in question is TELEVISION (which can of course be put into the tangible form of videotape or DVD).
Doctor Who related?
(Well, presumably before it was on television it was in a script, which is a concrete tangible form by any defition surely?)
[rab] Doctor Who related? NO
(Fair enough, I was just interpreting your question as trying to distinguish a particular class of artforms of, say, the sculpture variety. If you count stuff like scripts, then which art forms don't have tangible form? Even computer games are stored tangibly on a HDD.)
* goes off to write treatise on television as a virtual form *
Is the programme currently on television?
Projoy] Re non-tangible art forms - how about improvised stand-up comedy?
[Ig] Is the original programme in which The Answer first appeared still on? NO
(is a real-life performer insufficiently tangible for you, then? :))
[Projoy] I was thinking of apocryphal/folk stories, that kind of thing.
British TV programme?
Was it a series?
[rab] British? YES
[Inkspot] A series? YES
The genre popularly known as "Drama"?
And you do know what I mean by that, if you don't try and think too hard :)
[rab] I hope you'll forgive me for giving the answer as I DON'T KNOW. History records the name of said show, but not its genre. Quite startled at how recalcitrant this subject is proving.
Summary again
[rab] On further thought, the best answer is almost certainly NO to the genre question.

Handy summary: It's an ANIMAL, VEGETABLE, MINERAL, (ABSTRACT (ANIMAL)). On the card is a name - the name of something essentially fictional that is and isn't a person. One of the animal parts is part of a human, the other animal part is partially a person, and partially another specific mammal. The mineral part is man-made. Appeared first in a British TV Show (in English) that is no longer on.
First episode shown prior to 1980?
OK let's try a different tack.
[rab] First episode before 1980? YES
Monty Python's Flying Circus
Late entry from me.... Will be a bit of a bad steal if I'm right.
[Lib] MPFC? NO.
Is the human part an internal organ?
Re improv - touché
Is the thing also the name of the show?
[Ig] Internal organ? NO
[rab] name of show=words on card (or selection of permutation of)? NO
First shown on the BBC?
[Ink] BBC? NO
First episode before 1970?
[Ink] Before 1970? YES (hint - we are talking about the show that hosted the first appearance of this character, not necessarily the show most associated with it.)

[all] Are some clues needed at this stage? This clue seems to be losing steam a bit after more than a week in play!
(or is everyone suffering from the rapid approach of the worst day of the year?
Was this children's TV?
Clues - yes, please.
[Ig] Children's TV? YES! *considerable applause*

Blue's First Clue: it is the abstract (i.e. fictional) part that contains that which is partially human and partially some other mammal - in other words, we're talking about an anthropomorphic character, not of some invented species, either.
A ventriloquist act?
Sooty?
[Ink] Wind-speaking? NO
[Raak] Carbonaceous Ursine? NO
Catweazle?
Is it a anthropomorphic character male?
Is the human part a pair of hands?
Quick check; The answer is not the title a 1960s(?) ITV childrens programme but a character from it? ...and that's all till tomorrow.
[Ig] Felis Mustela? NO
[Ink] Male? YES
[Ink] Hands? *applause and cheering* YES (not sure if it's a pair or just one).
Was this a Gerry Anderson series?
[Raak] Supermarionation? NO, MILADY
[Inks re: your quick check] That's completely correct.
String puppets of any sort?
[Raak] String puppets? NO
Cartoon/animation?
A shadow puppet?
Basil Brush?
I think Chalky has got it...
[rab] Animated? Like this game lately, NOT VERY! :)
[Raak] Shadow puppet? NO
[Chalky, you naughy victorous lurker] Basil Brush? YES!! BOOM BOOM. Basil first appeared in Peter Firmin's kids' show The Three Scampies in, I think it was 1968 but too lazy to go back and check on Wikipedia. For all I know the show was a drama rather than Basil's later chatshow-style shows, but I couldn't find that out. The animal element which is part of a human is the operator's hand in the puppet, the mineral the nylon from which I fondly fancy the puppet is fashioned, with a side-bet on some vegetable elements in his clothes too. The abstract element (incorporating more animal: i.e. anthropomorphic fox-man) is the fictional character of Basil. * gets a bag of aniseed balls, and gives that to Chalky, as there's no longer a fox to hunt * Tally Ho!
Oh, and well done to rab, Irouléguy and Inkspot for doing most of the heavy lifting, there!
Grr, Basil Brush passed through my mind but I rejected it for not being a sequence of four things, as suggested by the way you laid out your clue. Oh well, well done Chalky.
Congrats and welcome back, Chalky - I think it needed a fresh pair of eyes to get that.
Lurking and assorted pastimes
That'll teach me. I'll blame the pub quiz victory [the first time in 5 weeks] and the brandy.
'Tis grand to be back .. thanks to PJ for a very thorough set of responses and to rab, Raak, Iroulé, Inks et al for pointing the way :-)

How's about a V E G E T A B L E to ease me back into MC Land ..
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