Yes, it's another round of that classic guessing game - Animal, Vegetable, Mineral, Abstract [or any combination thereof]. This effort - '03/'04 should address any queries, but then again, may just serve to confuse and baffle which some might say is the point of the game. Patience, integrity and a decent search engine may be useful ....
[INJ] On further reflection, there are two separate answers to the "artistic, rather than practical" question. One is an unequivocal YES, the other is a tentative NO.
[Rosie] Pissoir? NOPE [all] I know it seems like it's been narrowed down quite a bit, but critical information about the answer has yet to be unearthed, hence most of these guesses missing.
[INJ] Specific to one culture/country? NO, NOT REALLY [Ig] Shelter for people? SORT OF (it's not for any other species either) [Tuj] Park bench, NOPE [Raak] Wood? PROBABLY, BUT MIGHT NOT BE
[Rosie] Actually, it could be that the most helpful answer is YES, come to think of it. Sorry, not wishing to be perverse, but there's still something you don't yet know about this thing that, one you have found it out, would enable me to give much less equivocal answers.
[Phil] apology accepted :) [Tuj] Fictional? YES *relieved applause and cheering* [Phil] Pillarbox? NO, although the notion of taking shelter in a pillarbox is amusing me as I type.
[Projoy] It's only "sort of" a shelter for people, so I thought it might be a shelter for things, that people use. But, you could shelter one hand at a time in one :-)
[CdM] Multiple instances? NO (there's no especial reason there couldn't be, but only one is mentioned - there's nothing about the one instance encountered that is (particularly) specific to one culture)
[CdMaddendum] Which is to say in terms of "recognisable", the answer is definitely NO, and in terms of "real", it's MOSTLY NO. [INJ] Basically for children? YES *applause*
So, it's a fictional, single, individual object which is smaller than a phone-box, larger than a shoe-box and appears in a one-off C20th children's novel by a non-British author, which is mostly set in unreal locations, published some time in the last fifty years. It may be described as "street furniture" (with some potential for controversy) and The Answer begins with a 'P'. More dubious are the details of what it's made of (probably wood), where it is most likely to be found, and whether it is likely to be mass-produced (unlikely, IMO). I won't go thru all the things it's not, but will note that some people will have heard of it, others will probably require google.
Never heard of it, nor will many others, thus excluding them from the game. Google it? What do you type into Google? "Something I have never heard of". Go! This is by no means the worst example of an inappropriate subject, there being many of them so arcane that you just give up, bored, knowing that eventually some clever clogs will winkle out the answer. I could retaliate, of course, if I ever win again. It will be a steam engine. Not just any old steam engine. Oh dear me no. A particular type and not only that, a particular class. And not just any old loco of that class but a particular engine. And will it be notable in any way? Not necessarily. Wouldn't that be clever? The point I am making is that this game has departed a long way from the original concept, which was conducted live and necessarily needed maybe unusual but universally-known subjects. It needs to stop being a research project or a showcase for clever boys and return to its more modest origins.
[Rosie] Oh, rubbish. If we stuck to obvious stuff, this game would have run out of steam much earlier. I enjoyed finding out about, for example, Bobrikov, set by Néa earlier in the game. I'd never heard of him, but that hardly excluded me from the game (in fact it was me who dug up the answer after about 20 minutes' research).
Besides, anyone who hasn't heard of the Phantom Tollbooth has just had the good fortune to discover it. It is one of the classics of literature and they should read it at once (preferably in an edition with the original Jules Feiffer cartoons).
Bobrikov, and Bluebeard (which I found through Google) were good - difficult, and involved learning something new, but they were relatively "googlable". Luckily, the Phantom Bluetooth appears to be well enough known for someone to get it, it's just us grumpy old men that have never heard of it ;-) Lets move on and work the next one out :-)
(Projoy) There is an absolutely huge number of subjects that are universally known. The skill is in picking one that is a little off-beat and needs a little imagination to guess. That's what the original Animal, Vegetable and Mineral was about. Turning it into a research project is a negation of the original idea. I have no interest whatever in which particular species of South American lizard, or which character from some science fiction novel the questioner is thinking of. That is just so nerdy. And boring! It's meant to be a game. Time for another extended absence from this one, I feel.
[Rosie] Please don't deprive us of your presence from this game. Surely now your opinions have been aired and taken into account by the rest of us there should be less of a problem? I'm in the "never heard of it" camp for the last one, but that happens every now and then - and I'm sure it does for everyone. Trying to come up with subjects every single time that every member of a multi-national group of people from a fair age range have heard of wouldn't be too easy. Yes, if there happens to be another subject soon that the majority of people consider inappropriate we can have this kind of discussion, but shall we just get on with things for now? [CdM] By the way, no pressure on choosing the next topic ;)
(Tuj) That's very kind, and I actually enjoy the game, yes really, but only up to the point where I reckon the answer must be something I've never heard of, at which I just switch off and hope for something better next time. OK, I'll put in some questions then, if you insist. :-)
[Tuj] Well, I was thinking about picking a particular steam engine... [Rosie] I understand where you are coming from -- halfway through the last AVMA I remember thinking "well, if this is from a Philip Pullman book I might as well give up now." At the same time this game, like so many that we play, is different from its antecedent, and I think this is a good thing, not a bad thing. This online version is played using google from time to time, and that does open us up to more obscure topics. As to whether Projoy's particular choice was too obscure, I am inclined to think not (but then, I did know the answer). The answer was the title to the book, not something from within the book, and I do think the book is acknowledged as at least a minor classic of children's literature -- maybe not in the A.A. Milne or Lewis Carroll or C.S. Lewis league, but comparable to perhaps the works of Roald Dahl or Arthur Ransome. Like Tuj, though, I would urge you to keep playing. On which note, ABSTRACT
To do with numbers? Hmmmmm... Not as such, yet numbers do play an important role in practice. Reality TV? No. Just one of these? No. Begins with P? No. Stephenson's Rocket? Not even close. :-) A space of some kind? That is also a tricky one. I would say Yes, but I worry that that answer will mislead.
To do with mathematics? No. Game of some kind? No. Connected with physics? No.(There are very vague connections to physics and math, but I think they are unhelpful) Something Projoy has never heard of? :-) No. Relationship between humans? No. (Except in a very vague sense!) Moebius loop? No.
Not to be discouraging, but nothing is hitting anywhere near the mark yet...
To do with the internets? No. Although, as a clue, I might point out that it had absolultely nothing to do with the internets at all until relatively recently, and now it does have something to do with the internets, as in fact I proved when I originally set this AVMA.
A clearing of the throat? No. AVMA? No. Holidays? No. Diesel land speed record? No. Speed of light? *forgets* Delivery? No. Understood pre 1700? No. *ripple of applause* Absence vs presence? Presence rather than absence.
taxon? No. Hubble constant? No. Technology-related? Yes, in the sense that it that would not be meaningful without a particular technology. Poincaré Conjecture? No. Gravity? No. *some laughter in the audience mixed with a smattering of applause* Associated with particular branch of science? Yes, if "science" includes applied sciences. Kinetic energy? No, although there is a vague connection.
To do with planes? Yes. *applause* To with computing? Well, the primary technology I was thinking of was aeronautics. There need not be a connection with computing, but in practice there usually is. Flight? No. *significant applause* Railway timetable? No. *sudden silence*
Cruising Altitude it is, prompted by the fact that I posted that AVMA at a height of 38,000 feet somewhere over Central Asia. *automatic pilot hands baton to INJ*
BTW I'm spending the long weekend away from contact. (No phone, no mobile connectivity, without walking 15 minutes, no road). So if you haven't got it by bedtime there could be a long pause.
And it’s a lurker’s victory for irach – the Aral Sea it is. The singular/plural question is because the evaporation has continued to such an extent that there are at least 3 unconnected bodies of water.
[Projoy] Generally not larger than a shoebox, and definitely not in two of the three dimensions. [Rosie] May occasionally be used in the household, but is also frequently utilized in other locales.
[Raak]. Not an umbrella. (begins with "p", remember? Not a parasol either, however. As a clarification, one does not "carry" it so much as "handle" it in its use).
[Projoy] I presume one can make marks with it. [INJ] Not a picture (but the audience sits up, taking notice, and a few nod knowingly) [Raak] Yes. Connected with paint... (oooh, so close). [Tuj] By Jove, you got it! YES - a paintbrush it is.
[Raak] Nope, that's been asked before (Rosie) and we've also established that it's iffy whether a single one would be visible to the naked eye (INJ). As far as your previous question goes, it is "eaten" as such, although I just don't think that's the right word.
I'm going away tomorrow for a few days so this may get abandoned.
[Tuj] YES, it does begin with a P! [Rosie] YES, a human construct. Hm. Are moulds animal or vegetable or taxonomically in an "ancestor-to-both" category?
[Rosie] Yes, I realised I'd plunged in and labelled it animal without considering vegetable, but never mind. Thankfully my mess was cleared up by Inkspot & Projoy.
(Pj) Moulds are a type of fungi, apparently. I can't see how there can be any connection with animals. Animal can turn into Vegetable eg manure (there's polite for you) but surely not the other way round?
[Raak] Definition of planets? NO [Rosie] Scientific/Technical? YES (for the most part) *audience applause, although one or two pedants get into fistfights*
Also - it isn't predestination, plutocracy or parsimony. *is somewhat bemused by the pedants who have to resort to fisticuffs and tells them it's not THAT important - fer gawd's sake*
OK, strictly it's not to do with any particular craft, but it is relevant to craft in general, so long as you take a very broad definition of craft (i.e. not corn dollies and marquetry). In principle it need not be to do with science and/or technology, but in practice it usually is. The Answer is not a verb, gerund or adjective, nor is it any kind of "ism".
We'll be right back after this message from our sponsor....
PS. Having just looked up fungi in Wikipedia (nothing to do with the answer to mine), I read this: "Fungi were originally classified as plants, however have since been separated as they are heterotrophs. This means they do not fix their own carbon through photosynthesis, but use carbon fixed by other organisms for metabolism. Fungi are now thought to be more closely related to animals than to plants, and are placed with animals in the monophyletic group of opisthokonts." The article classifies them as "Kingdom: Fungi", so maybe this game should become AVFM?
(after further research) Hm. Possibly the game should even be Animal, Plant, Fungi, Protista, Archaebacteria, Eubacteria, Non-Organic, Abstract. Might take the fun out of it, tho.
[Projoy] What about objects that refuse to define themselves in terms of an oppressive system of categories that makes no allowance for their unique viewpoint?
[all] Sorry for finding out it began with P... [all again] But far more sorry for my momentary lapse in forgetting the "vegetable" category - luckily I've been away over the weekend and my embarassment has cooled. And to me (and most I guess) mould would certainly be vegetable, whatever dratted Wikipedia thinks.
One last thing before I give up, as this thing is an abstract human construction is it a thought process or something like that goes on in someone's head.
[Tuj] Invented in the last thousand years. YES. Some accounts say that this was around a long time before its "official" invention date in the last thousand years, but I'll go with the account that gives a specific date. [Inkspot] Thought process? NOT EXCLUSIVELY, this thing (rather than process) is abstract (i.e. non-tangible), but it is also translated into tangible form and because of that it has a definite effect on people's behaviour in the real world. [flerdle] Proof? NO, although proof (in the informal sense) is often involved.
To the question by Tuj "Linked with a particular culture or country?" you replied "NOT ANY MORE". Does that mean that it began in one country but it is now world wide.
ps if yes, a great clue would be the coutry of origin.
[Inkspot] OK, for nothing I shall reveal that this thing first appeared (according to the account I am following) in Venice first (when Venice was a country). [Phil] Associated with a particular way of life? NOT REALLY (unless you mean particular professions?)
[Projoy] Ayurvedic cuisine? vaguely. [Darren] Curry? NO but ever so close [Raak] found in Indian restaurants outside India? YES [irach] contains mango? YES and no. Depends. [Irouléguy] a chutney or pickle? YES!! *audience cheers wildly, orders takeaway*
Chalky] Is it an activity? *applause* YES Rosie] A game? *louder applause, quite possibly beer-fuelled* YES ImNotJohn] Is the animal connection human? YES Inkspot] Connected to religion? *some sardonic chuckling* NO Raak] Is more than one sort of animal involved? YE-ES, though I don't think that's helpful.
Raak - Football? NO Projoy - Game hunting? NO - the other animals are red herrings Phil - Fuzzy Duck? *the audience break into teams to play* Nice idea, but no. Rosie - Cricket? NO *polite applause* Assuming the ball contains leather - that assumption contains two unasked questions. Darren] Golf? NO