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AVMA Take 2
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Yes, it's another round of that classic guessing game - Animal, Vegetable, Mineral, Abstract [or any combination thereof]. This effort - '03/'04 should address any queries, but then again, may just serve to confuse and baffle which some might say is the point of the game. Patience, integrity and a decent search engine may be useful ....
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Is it found in a particular type of location?
Some kind of fencing?
A pier?
[Rosie] Particular type of location? YES and NO. The most helpful answer is NO.
[Tuj] Fencing? NO
[Ig] Pier? NO
[Rosie] Actually, it could be that the most helpful answer is YES, come to think of it. Sorry, not wishing to be perverse, but there's still something you don't yet know about this thing that, one you have found it out, would enable me to give much less equivocal answers.
A pier?
I am so blind - apols for such blatant repitition
Is it fictional?
Pillarbox?
[Phil] apology accepted :)
[Tuj] Fictional? YES *relieved applause and cheering*
[Phil] Pillarbox? NO, although the notion of taking shelter in a pillarbox is amusing me as I type.
From a book?
Pfff blimey. Can't believe we hadn't questioned the abstract sooner.
[Tuj] From a book? YES
One specific, individual thing?
[Raak] Specific, individual? YES
[Projoy] It's only "sort of" a shelter for people, so I thought it might be a shelter for things, that people use. But, you could shelter one hand at a time in one :-)
Is the book science fiction?
[Raak] SF? NO.
A porch?
[Raak] Porch, NO.
A Priesthole?
(only they have them in non-fiction too, but it's all I can think of)
[Phil] Priesthole? NOPE
Is it a 20th century book?
[Ig] C20th book? YES
Is the book set, broadly speaking, in the present day (as opposed to being obviously historical fiction or obviously set in the future)?
[CdM] Broadly present-day, YES
(there is a case for a NO answer, but that would be a bit obnoxious)
Are there multiple instances of this one specific thing? (I'm trying to reconcile "specific individual thing" with "not specific to one culture")
[CdM] Multiple instances? NO (there's no especial reason there couldn't be, but only one is mentioned - there's nothing about the one instance encountered that is (particularly) specific to one culture)
Is the book set in a recognisable real location or locations?
(I'm making up for all the questions I didn't ask earlier.)
[CdM] Real/recognisable location? NO (and YES, but mostly NO)
Would the book be considered as basically for children?
[CdMaddendum] Which is to say in terms of "recognisable", the answer is definitely NO, and in terms of "real", it's MOSTLY NO.
[INJ] Basically for children? YES *applause*
In a Harry Potter book?
[INJ] Harry Potter? NO.
In a Narnian chronicle?
[CdM] I'm not that far back in the closet. NO. ;-)
In a Philip Pullman book?
[Ig] Philip Pullman? NOPE (even though he begins with P twice!)
Book from the last 50 years?
[Tuj] From the last 50 Years, YES
A Tolkien book?
Is the writer British?
Pub sign?
Pinocchio?
Just one book, or a series?
[Phil] Tolkien? NO
[Inkspot] British? NO
[Tuj] Pub sign? NO
[ir] Pinocchio, NO
[Ig] Just one book? YES
Da Recap
So, it's a fictional, single, individual object which is smaller than a phone-box, larger than a shoe-box and appears in a one-off C20th children's novel by a non-British author, which is mostly set in unreal locations, published some time in the last fifty years. It may be described as "street furniture" (with some potential for controversy) and The Answer begins with a 'P'. More dubious are the details of what it's made of (probably wood), where it is most likely to be found, and whether it is likely to be mass-produced (unlikely, IMO). I won't go thru all the things it's not, but will note that some people will have heard of it, others will probably require google.
French?
[INJ] French? NO
European?
OK, let's be systematic about this.
Phantom Tollboth?
And can I just say that, if that isn't right, then it ought to be.
[INJ] European, NO...
[CdM] Phantom Tollbooth? YES!! *collects checkpoint fee and hands baton back to CdM*
Never heard of it, nor will many others, thus excluding them from the game. Google it? What do you type into Google? "Something I have never heard of". Go! This is by no means the worst example of an inappropriate subject, there being many of them so arcane that you just give up, bored, knowing that eventually some clever clogs will winkle out the answer. I could retaliate, of course, if I ever win again. It will be a steam engine. Not just any old steam engine. Oh dear me no. A particular type and not only that, a particular class. And not just any old loco of that class but a particular engine. And will it be notable in any way? Not necessarily. Wouldn't that be clever? The point I am making is that this game has departed a long way from the original concept, which was conducted live and necessarily needed maybe unusual but universally-known subjects. It needs to stop being a research project or a showcase for clever boys and return to its more modest origins.
Ditto, never heard of it :-(
[Rosie] Oh, rubbish. If we stuck to obvious stuff, this game would have run out of steam much earlier. I enjoyed finding out about, for example, Bobrikov, set by Néa earlier in the game. I'd never heard of him, but that hardly excluded me from the game (in fact it was me who dug up the answer after about 20 minutes' research).
Besides, anyone who hasn't heard of the Phantom Tollbooth has just had the good fortune to discover it. It is one of the classics of literature and they should read it at once (preferably in an edition with the original Jules Feiffer cartoons).
Bobrikov, and Bluebeard (which I found through Google) were good - difficult, and involved learning something new, but they were relatively "googlable". Luckily, the Phantom Bluetooth appears to be well enough known for someone to get it, it's just us grumpy old men that have never heard of it ;-)
Lets move on and work the next one out :-)
(Projoy) There is an absolutely huge number of subjects that are universally known. The skill is in picking one that is a little off-beat and needs a little imagination to guess. That's what the original Animal, Vegetable and Mineral was about. Turning it into a research project is a negation of the original idea. I have no interest whatever in which particular species of South American lizard, or which character from some science fiction novel the questioner is thinking of. That is just so nerdy. And boring! It's meant to be a game. Time for another extended absence from this one, I feel.
[Rosie] Please don't deprive us of your presence from this game. Surely now your opinions have been aired and taken into account by the rest of us there should be less of a problem? I'm in the "never heard of it" camp for the last one, but that happens every now and then - and I'm sure it does for everyone. Trying to come up with subjects every single time that every member of a multi-national group of people from a fair age range have heard of wouldn't be too easy. Yes, if there happens to be another subject soon that the majority of people consider inappropriate we can have this kind of discussion, but shall we just get on with things for now?
[CdM] By the way, no pressure on choosing the next topic ;)
(Tuj) That's very kind, and I actually enjoy the game, yes really, but only up to the point where I reckon the answer must be something I've never heard of, at which I just switch off and hope for something better next time. OK, I'll put in some questions then, if you insist. :-)
[Tuj] Well, I was thinking about picking a particular steam engine...
[Rosie] I understand where you are coming from -- halfway through the last AVMA I remember thinking "well, if this is from a Philip Pullman book I might as well give up now." At the same time this game, like so many that we play, is different from its antecedent, and I think this is a good thing, not a bad thing. This online version is played using google from time to time, and that does open us up to more obscure topics. As to whether Projoy's particular choice was too obscure, I am inclined to think not (but then, I did know the answer). The answer was the title to the book, not something from within the book, and I do think the book is acknowledged as at least a minor classic of children's literature -- maybe not in the A.A. Milne or Lewis Carroll or C.S. Lewis league, but comparable to perhaps the works of Roald Dahl or Arthur Ransome. Like Tuj, though, I would urge you to keep playing. On which note,
ABSTRACT
A human construct?
Human construct? Yes is the least misleading answer.
Does it have religious connotations?
fictional?
To do with language?
Religious connotations? No.
Fictional? No.
To do with language? No.
To do with computers?
To do with emotions?
Computers? No, except in a very tangential sense.
Emotions? No.
To do with numbers?
Reality TV?
Is there just one of these?
Begins with a P?
Stephenson's Rocket?
No forget that - it's got to be Mallard.
A space of some kind?
To do with numbers? Hmmmmm... Not as such, yet numbers do play an important role in practice.
Reality TV? No.
Just one of these? No.
Begins with P? No.
Stephenson's Rocket? Not even close. :-)
A space of some kind? That is also a tricky one. I would say Yes, but I worry that that answer will mislead.
To do with mathematics?
Is it a game of some kind?
Connected with Physics?
[Rosie] Since it's abstract, it would have to be the Mallard Imaginaire.
"Something I've never heard of"?
A relationship of some sort between humans?
Moebius loop?
To do with mathematics? No.
Game of some kind? No.
Connected with physics? No.(There are very vague connections to physics and math, but I think they are unhelpful)
Something Projoy has never heard of? :-) No.
Relationship between humans? No. (Except in a very vague sense!)
Moebius loop? No.

Not to be discouraging, but nothing is hitting anywhere near the mark yet...
Anything to do with environmental issues?
To do with the arts?
To do with perception?
To do with environmental issues? No. (Again, I suppose there is a very vague connection.)
To do with the arts? No.
To do with perception? No.
To do with the internets?
To do with the internets? No. Although, as a clue, I might point out that it had absolultely nothing to do with the internets at all until relatively recently, and now it does have something to do with the internets, as in fact I proved when I originally set this AVMA.
AVMA?
To do with music?
To do with motion?
"Mallard" did 125 mph, you know.
To do with randomness?
Music? No.
Motion? Yes. *some applause*
Randomness? *tosses coin, checks* No.
*ahem*
To do with holidays?
The diesel land speed record?
Journey? Ticket?
The speed of light?
Some sort of delivery?
Would it have been known about/understood pre 1700?
Does it refer to the absence, rather than the presence of something?
Forget the speed of light, it's obviously not that.
oops
A clearing of the throat? No.
AVMA? No.
Holidays? No.
Diesel land speed record? No.
Speed of light? *forgets* Delivery? No.
Understood pre 1700? No. *ripple of applause*
Absence vs presence? Presence rather than absence.
Some sort of taxon?
The Hubble constant?
Technology-related?
A force?
The Poincare Conjecture?
Gravity?
Is it associated with/a product of a particular branch of science?
Kinetic energy?
taxon? No.
Hubble constant? No.
Technology-related? Yes, in the sense that it that would not be meaningful without a particular technology.
Poincaré Conjecture? No.
Gravity? No. *some laughter in the audience mixed with a smattering of applause*
Associated with particular branch of science? Yes, if "science" includes applied sciences.
Kinetic energy? No, although there is a vague connection.
Anything to do with planes?
Is the technology computing?
Flight?
Railway timetable?
To do with planes? Yes. *applause*
To with computing? Well, the primary technology I was thinking of was aeronautics. There need not be a connection with computing, but in practice there usually is.
Flight? No. *significant applause*
Railway timetable? No. *sudden silence*
The simulated absence of gravity on a plane flying a parabolic path?
Bernoulli's Principle?
Lift?
Which could be correct, as Tuj's "A Force?" was not answered.
oooops again
zero g? No.
Bernouilli Principle? *tosses coin, checks* No.
Lift (or other force?)? No.
*surreptitiously removes "i" from Bernoodle*
To do also with money?
Jet lag?
Forget last question
jet lag?
...
...
...
...
No.
The gyroscopic effect?
OK, to do also with money?
gyroscopic effect? No.
to do with money? No.
Satellite Navigation?
satellite navigation? No. *more applause*
Altitude?
Elliptical orbit?
altitude is one of the two words on the card. *sustained applause*
elliptical orbit? No.
Cruising Altitude?
If that doesn't work I'll let others have a go.
Density Altitude?
No, I think INJ has it, actually.
Pressure Altitude?
Just in case INJ hasn't got it.
Cruising Altitude it is, prompted by the fact that I posted that AVMA at a height of 38,000 feet somewhere over Central Asia. *automatic pilot hands baton to INJ*
OK, a quick one then.
This one is MINERAL.
BTW I'm spending the long weekend away from contact. (No phone, no mobile connectivity, without walking 15 minutes, no road). So if you haven't got it by bedtime there could be a long pause.
naturally occurring?
Is there more than one instance of this?
[PJ]naturally occurring - YES
[CdM] >1 - NO is probably the less confusing answer
Larger than a house?
[CdM] > house - YES
A geographical feature?
Well this is going quickly
[Phil] geographical feature? - YES (applause)
In Europe?
[Phil] Mineral, larger than a house, INJ setting the clue -- it had to be a geographical feature. :-)
On Earth?
*senses possible topicality*
Is its name of plural form?
As in the Alps, the Urals, the Six Counties, etc.
[CdM] Europe - NO
[PJ] On Earth - YES (no ice balls here)
[Raak] name of plural form? - NO (that's not why)
Africa?
(Feel free to assume the rest of the questions :-) )
Feeling Liberated
[Néa] Africa - NO
(Feel free to assume the rest of the answers)
Asia?
[PJ] Asia - YES
The audience is following intently.
A Himalaya?
[Tuj] Himalaya? - NO
A group of islands?
Is it at sea?
A named object?
[Néa] archipelago? - NO
[Raak] At Sea? - NO (a few wry grins are seen),br>[PJ] named object? - YES
Preview, you Great Dummacks!
New Orleans?
A lake?
Which Asia was that?
[Raak] New Orleans? - NO
[Rosie] Lake? - YES
(Most of the audience applaud - a few sit pointedly on their hands)
The Caspian Sea?
Nearly there
[Néa] Non-princely Caspian - NO
Lake Baikal?
Aral Sea?
Lake Vostok?
And it’s a lurker’s victory for irach – the Aral Sea it is. The singular/plural question is because the evaporation has continued to such an extent that there are at least 3 unconnected bodies of water.

So, have a good weekend and over to irach.

Well, well, well... The next one is ANIMAL, VEGETABLE and MINERAL
Begins with a P?
[Tuj] As a matter of fact, Yes.
Manmade?
[Rosie] Yes.
Bigger than a telephone box?
Score!
[Tuj] No, smaller than a telephone box.
Bigger than a shoebox?
A household device?
[Projoy] Generally not larger than a shoebox, and definitely not in two of the three dimensions.
[Rosie] May occasionally be used in the household, but is also frequently utilized in other locales.
A man-made object?
[CdM] you obviously know him better than I do
Used in sport?
A passive object, i.e. not powered?
[Phil] Yes. A man-made object.
[Tuj] Not used in sport.
[Rosie} Not powered by electricity or any fuel.
A leather-bound filofax?
Is the vegetable part paper?
[Raak] No. Not a filofax.
[Tuj] The vegetable part is not paper.
Is the vegetable part wood?
Is the animal part alive?
[Tuj] Yes, the vegetable part is wood.(The dozing audience opens half an eye)
[Raak] Not alive.
Is the mineral part metal?
A musical instrument?
[Tuj] Yes, the mineral part is metal.
[Raak] Not a musical instrument.
Do many people carry this with them?
[Rosie] Most people have carried it at some time, some people carry this some of the time; a certain profession carries it more often than others.
A mobile phone?
[Rosie} Not a mobile phone.
Is it a penknife or pocket knife?
[penelope] Neither a penknife or pocket knife.
An umbrella?
[Raak]. Not an umbrella. (begins with "p", remember? Not a parasol either, however. As a clarification, one does not "carry" it so much as "handle" it in its use).
Does it have a use in an office?
A pen?
A container of some kind?
[Projoy] Not generally used in an office.
[Chalky] Not a pen (the audience stirs ever so slightly, though}
[Rosie] Not a container.
Connected with making marks?
a picture?
Connected with paint?
A paintbrush?
[Projoy] I presume one can make marks with it.
[INJ] Not a picture (but the audience sits up, taking notice, and a few nod knowingly)
[Raak] Yes. Connected with paint... (oooh, so close).
[Tuj] By Jove, you got it! YES - a paintbrush it is.
I say, I actually won one! That's never happened before!
So, I'll kick off with a nice easy ANIMAL.
Human?
[Kim] Nope.
Begins with a P??
[Néa] Naturally :D
Currently lives wild in Britain?
[Raak] Possibly, but a less misleading answer I think would be NO.
Dingo?
Is it a bird?
[irach] Not a dingo.
[Rosie] Not a bird (or a plane, or indeed Superman).
Do people keep it as a pet?
Is it a mammal?
Is it sometimes used a s a work animal?
A single named individual animal?
[Raak] Pets? No.
[Néa] Not a mammal.
[irach] Not a work animal, though it is useful.
[INJ] Not a specific single animal.
I feel so negative... at least you know it begins with P, eh? ;)
Does it live on land?
[INJ] As opposed to sea or sky YES, but that's not a brilliant answer.
Maybe I should have made more of the fact it's useful...
Does it live in fresh water?
Is it an insect?
Is it bred for a specific purpose?
[irach] No, I don't think so.
[Chalky-1] No...
[Chalky-2] Yes! (though not in all instances)
A pig?
A reptile?
[Rosie] Not a mammal, apparently.
[Rosie & Projoy] Neither a pig nor a reptile.
An invertebrate?
Individually visible to the naked eye?
Is its skin made into leather?
"Leather" includes crocodiles, snakes, eels, etc
Is it a fish?
Is it an animal product?
[irach] Spineless indeed.
[INJ] Probably...
{Raak] No!
[Kim] No!
[Chalky] YES! That's a much better line to go down.
Honey?
Edible?
[Rosie] No.
[Irouléguy] Yes *audience thinks about applauding, then doesn't
*
Eaten by human beings?
[Projoy] Taken in by humans, yes. Not sure what it'd do to anything else.
Do people drink it?
Connected with brewing or distilling?
[Raak] No
[Projoy] No.

I don't think I'm very good at this.
Is the animal a bird?
[Raak] Nope, that's been asked before (Rosie) and we've also established that it's iffy whether a single one would be visible to the naked eye (INJ). As far as your previous question goes, it is "eaten" as such, although I just don't think that's the right word.

I'm going away tomorrow for a few days so this may get abandoned.
Does whatever it is sort of just hang around in the air?
[Projoy] No I'm afraid.
Is it alive?
Paramoecium?
A medication?
[Projoy] The animal yes, the animal product I'm fairly sure not
[irach] Afraid not
[Inkspot] Yes! *audience applause threatens structural instability*
Penicillin?
[Projoy] YES! *lights flash, trumpets sound*
'cuh, thank goodness that's over. I'll go back to guessing!
Oh dear, me again. OK, something everyone will have heard of, this time. ABSTRACT
Begins with a P?
Ahh, much better.
A human construct?
(Tuj) Penicillin is not an animal product but originally came from a mould. It can now be synthesised chemically.
[Tuj] YES, it does begin with a P!
[Rosie] YES, a human construct. Hm. Are moulds animal or vegetable or taxonomically in an "ancestor-to-both" category?
Procrastination?
[CdM] I'll tell you later.
To do with art?
Procrastination?
[Rosie] Yes, I realised I'd plunged in and labelled it animal without considering vegetable, but never mind. Thankfully my mess was cleared up by Inkspot & Projoy.
[Raak] Art? Most helpful answer is NO.
[Tuj] I'm getting to that one. It's the next thing on my list. More later.
An organisation?
(Pj) Moulds are a type of fungi, apparently. I can't see how there can be any connection with animals. Animal can turn into Vegetable eg manure (there's polite for you) but surely not the other way round?
[Rosie] Organisation? NO.
Is it fictional?
[Is] Fictional? NO
Is there a religious connection?
Anythig to do with furries?
Predestination?
Plutocracy?
Parsimony?
[Ig] Religious connection? NO
[Raak] Furry connection? NO
[Chalky] Predestination, Plutocracy or Parsimony? NO
A political concept?
[Rosie] Political? NO, well, only in the vaguest possible way.
Philosphy?
[Phil] Osophy? NOPE. (I do sometimes think that knowing the first letter is actually a bad thing. Encourages premature guessing).
An emotion?
(not wanting to be premature)
[Phil] An emotion? NO.
Premature Guessing?
Har har :P
[CdM] Premature Speculation? NO
Poincaré's Conjecture?
Possible event?
An activity?
Pantomime?
( [Tuj]With regard to the earlier one, can "Penicillin", a fungus, really be classified as an "animal"? Shouldn't it have been "vegetable"?)
[Raak] Poincaré's conjecture? NO
[Inkspot] Possible event? NO
[Ig] Activity? NO
[irach] Panto? OH, NO IT ISN'T!
Probability of having its own Wikipedia entry?
[Inkspot] Technically, I can answer only YES or NO, but since it's you, I shall reply that the probability is 100%.
Did it exist more than a century ago?
Is it an artistic style?
A bodily function? (not necessarily a rude one).
[Raak] More than a century old? YES
[Phil] Artistic style, NO
[Rosie] Bodily function, rude or otherwise, NO
To do with language?
[Raak] Language connection? NOT REALLY, except in a fairly catch-all sense.
Is it timeless?
[Phil] Timeless? NO
What it's not...
Art, organisation, fictional, religious, furry, political, philosophical, emotion, possible event, activity, panto, style, bodily function, language, timeless.
The definition of planets?
Scientific/Technical?
[Raak] Definition of planets? NO
[Rosie] Scientific/Technical? YES (for the most part) *audience applause, although one or two pedants get into fistfights*
Also - it isn't predestination, plutocracy or parsimony.
*is somewhat bemused by the pedants who have to resort to fisticuffs and tells them it's not THAT important - fer gawd's sake*
Periodic Table?
[Elemental, my dear Chalky] Periodic Table? NO
A theory?
[Inkspot] A theory? NO
Anything to do with the weather?
Is it an "-ology" ?
[Rosie] To do with the weather? NO
[Philology]? NO, not an ology.
[Projoy] Takes a lot to make me laugh on a monday morning, but thanks for "Philology" - raised a titter, at least :-)
Anything to do with a craft of some sort?
[Raak] To do with a craft of some sort? Strictly, NO (but note my emphasis).
A general skill?
[Raak] NO, not a skill. (damn, thought we were almost there for a moment!)
Is it a practice of some kind?
[Kim] Practice, NO.
Need a clue?
WE will ask the questions!
Er, actually, yes.
Clue-o-rama
OK, strictly it's not to do with any particular craft, but it is relevant to craft in general, so long as you take a very broad definition of craft (i.e. not corn dollies and marquetry). In principle it need not be to do with science and/or technology, but in practice it usually is. The Answer is not a verb, gerund or adjective, nor is it any kind of "ism".
(The Answer is a single word, too).
Production?
[Phil] Production, NO? * murmur of interest from the audience*
[CdM] Procrastination, NO (Sorry for the delay).
Anything to do with the occult?
[Chalky] To do with the occult, NO (not that kind of craft, either :))
Does it invove making pictures?
Powerpoint?
[Raak] Involves making pictures? OFTEN, IN PRACTICE *smattering of applause*
[Chalky] Powerpoint, NO.
photography?
strike that - silly guess, photography is an activity
is it a graphics programme?
[Chalky] Graphics programme, NO.
We'll be right back after this message from our sponsor....
PS. Having just looked up fungi in Wikipedia (nothing to do with the answer to mine), I read this: "Fungi were originally classified as plants, however have since been separated as they are heterotrophs. This means they do not fix their own carbon through photosynthesis, but use carbon fixed by other organisms for metabolism. Fungi are now thought to be more closely related to animals than to plants, and are placed with animals in the monophyletic group of opisthokonts." The article classifies them as "Kingdom: Fungi", so maybe this game should become AVFM?
+A
(after further research) Hm. Possibly the game should even be Animal, Plant, Fungi, Protista, Archaebacteria, Eubacteria, Non-Organic, Abstract. Might take the fun out of it, tho.
[Projoy] What about objects that refuse to define themselves in terms of an oppressive system of categories that makes no allowance for their unique viewpoint?
[Raak] They must be sent to the salt mines.
Day dreaming?
[Inkspot] Sorry, yes, I was miles away.
[IS] Er, daydreaming? NO.
Linked with a particular culture or country?
[all] Sorry for finding out it began with P...
[all again] But far more sorry for my momentary lapse in forgetting the "vegetable" category - luckily I've been away over the weekend and my embarassment has cooled. And to me (and most I guess) mould would certainly be vegetable, whatever dratted Wikipedia thinks.
You and Linnaeus, even, so you're in good company
[Tuj] Linked with a particular culture or country? NOT ANY MORE
Is it a process?
Was this thing invented by mankind?
[Phil] Funny, that's just the question I was going to ask in my post-before-last.
[Phil] Is it a process? UMMMM, NO (a process is involved, however)
[Tuj] Invented by mankind? YES (i.e. a human construct)
In the last 500 years?
[Tuj] Invented in the last 500 years? NO.
[Projoy] I think we have already had this discussion.
The last thousand?
This is a struggle, but a very interesting one.
One last thing before I give up, as this thing is an abstract human construction is it a thought process or something like that goes on in someone's head.
Proof?
Hello everyone. I've been away far too long.
[Tuj] Invented in the last thousand years. YES. Some accounts say that this was around a long time before its "official" invention date in the last thousand years, but I'll go with the account that gives a specific date.
[Inkspot] Thought process? NOT EXCLUSIVELY, this thing (rather than process) is abstract (i.e. non-tangible), but it is also translated into tangible form and because of that it has a definite effect on people's behaviour in the real world.
[flerdle] Proof? NO, although proof (in the informal sense) is often involved.
Printing?
[Raak] Printing? NO (not that informal sense of proof!)
propaganda?
A pendulum?
[flerdle] Propaganda, NO
[Raak] Pendulum, NO
(and if the diversity of those last few guesses isn't a hint that we still need more broad deductive questions, I don't know what is!)
To the question by Tuj "Linked with a particular culture or country?" you replied "NOT ANY MORE". Does that mean that it began in one country but it is now world wide.

ps if yes, a great clue would be the coutry of origin.

Is it associated with a particular way of life?
OK, let's be a bit helpful here...
[Inkspot] OK, for nothing I shall reveal that this thing first appeared (according to the account I am following) in Venice first (when Venice was a country).
[Phil] Associated with a particular way of life? NOT REALLY (unless you mean particular professions?)
Pasta?
[Raak] Wikipedia says that pasta originated in many places independently, the earliest records being from China, so NO.
Patents?
[flerdle] PATENT, YES! *astonished but grateful applause from the audience*.
Well, it couldn't be double-entry book-keeping
Gosh.

OK, short and simple:       VEGETABLE

Is it really a fungus? :)
*giggles*
[Projoy] Fungus? NO
Is it green?
Is it edible?
Is it wood?
Is it a whole plant? (Not having played here for months)
[Projoy] Green? Can be
[Chalky] Edible? YES
[Raak] Wood? NO
[Darren] a whole plant? NO
Is it a pepper?
Or an apple?
Or tea?
[Darren] a pepper? strictly NO, but may be involved.
[Projoy] an apple? strictly NO, but may be involved.
[Irouléguy] tea? NO.
A particular dish?
Pizza?
[Projoy] a particluar dish? YES and NO, but probably more helpful if you take that as "YES".
[Raak] Pizza? yes please!! oh.     NO.
The recommended five portions a day?
[Projoy] It's seven portions here... but either way, NO
Salad?
Is it associated with a particular country?
Is it eaten hot?
[Projoy] Salad? NO
[Inkspot] Associated with a particular country? YES! *audience cheers*
[Raak] Eaten hot? NO
A European Country?
Is any sort of grain product involved?
Beguns with a P?
[Projoy] a European country? NO. Well, not at first.
[Raak] involving grainproduct? NO
[pTuj]   starts wuth a P? No. Sorry.
Is the country India?
Ottoman Empire or some other way of saying "Turkish" that wasn't, at first, European?
Tofu kebab?
[Darren] India? YES! *more cheers*
[Projoy] Turkish etc? NO
[Raak] Tofu kebab? NO
NB need sleep, sorry for the upcoming delay, do guess on...
Ayurvedic cuisine?
Some sort of curry?
Does one find it in Indian restaurants outside India?
Contains mango?
Some sort of chutney or pickle?
[Projoy] Ayurvedic cuisine? vaguely.
[Darren] Curry? NO but ever so close
[Raak] found in Indian restaurants outside India? YES
[irach] contains mango? YES and no. Depends.
[Irouléguy] a chutney or pickle? YES!! *audience cheers wildly, orders takeaway*

Chutney it is. Over to you Irouléguy

Sorry for the delay! Out all day, and I'm out again tonight. Another quick one, I hope - ABSTRACT with ANIMAL connections.
Fictional?
Male?
Raak] Fictional? NO
Inkspot] Male? Usually, but not exclusively.
Symbolic?
The name of a job?
Raak] Symbolic? NO
Projoy] The name of a job? NO
Is it an activity?
A game?
Is the animal connection human?
Connected to religion?
Is more than one sort of animal involved?
Chalky] Is it an activity? *applause* YES
Rosie] A game? *louder applause, quite possibly beer-fuelled* YES
ImNotJohn] Is the animal connection human? YES
Inkspot] Connected to religion? *some sardonic chuckling* NO
Raak] Is more than one sort of animal involved? YE-ES, though I don't think that's helpful.
Football?
Game hunting?
Fuzzy Duck?
Cricket?
Assuming the ball contains leather.
Golf?
Raak - Football? NO
Projoy - Game hunting? NO - the other animals are red herrings
Phil - Fuzzy Duck? *the audience break into teams to play* Nice idea, but no.
Rosie - Cricket? NO *polite applause*
Assuming the ball contains leather - that assumption contains two unasked questions.
Darren] Golf? NO
Is it a ball game?
Darren] Is it a ball game? YES
Golf?
A team game?
Lacrosse?
Primarily associated with a particular country?
Handball?
Wondering whether games with implements like bats/clubs/whatever would have vegetable/mineral/whatever connections.
Baseball?
Is the animal connection _only_ human?
Rosie hits a a home run! It's baseball (the other animal connection being the leather-covered ball - I did say it was a red herring.) *Hands bat over*
Good heavens, I've won. Better have a lie down. That's better.

Nothing whatsoever to do with steam engines, but nevertheless MINERAL.

Metal?
A geographical feature?
Does it require electric power?
(Tuj, Phil, Inkspot) Not metallic, geographical or electrically-powered.
All together now, A human construct?
Smaller than a phone box?
(Projoy) YES, made by humans.
(Tuj) YES. Strictly, extremely unlikely that it's not.
Made of glass?
(Raak) - Made of glass? YES - *vigorous applause*
A container?
Is it made from just the one material?
A beer glass?
Raak - A container? - NO
Inkspot - Made from one material? -YES
Irouléguy - Beer glass? - How dare you? - NO
A decorative item?
(Phil) - Decorative item? Could be, but real answer is NO.
It is for looking through?
A scientific item?
(Raak) - For looking through? - NO
(Phil) - A scientific item? - YES
A pipette?
Is it a container?
(Irg) A pipette? - NO
(Darren) Already been asked - NO
Does it have other uses aside from the scientific one(s)?
(Darren) - Other uses - YES (if science and technology are distinct)
Thermometer?
(irach) - NO - Not a thermometer.
A mirror?
A prism
Can't believe no-one's asked if it starts with "P" yet...
(Raak) - Not a mirror, but (Phil) YES! - A prism. Carry on; it's all yours.
Well, stap me vitals, Bloodnok!

OK, this time I'll go for VEGETABLE & MINERAL

The vegetable's wood and the mineral's metal?
Salt and vinegar crisps?
Anything to do with dispensing inebriating fluids?
[Irach 1] Wood? CAN BE
[Irach 2] Metal? NO
[Darren] Walkers' Finest S&V? NO
[Rosie] To do with intoxicating liquor? NO
Bigger than a telephone kiosk?
[Chalky] Bigger than phonebox? NO
Is it a manufactured object?
A tool?
Is the mineral fluid?
[Darren] Manufactured? YES
[INJ] A tool? NO
[Raak] Fluid mineral? YES
Is the fluid water?
[Darren] Water? Not entirely
Is it a container of some sort?
[Chalky] Container? NO
Any connection with weather forecasting?
Barometer?
[Chalky] Weather forecasting? Dear God, NO - who do you think I am? :-)
[Darren] Barometer? NO
Is the water sea water?
Is it a drink?
Begins with a P?
Oh.
[Raak] Sea water? NO
[Inkspot] A drink? NO, unless you have very bizarre tastes...actually, just make that a stright NO
[Tuj] Begins with P? Sorry, NO.
Is the fluid used for cleaning?
Is the fluid colourless?
[Rosie] Fluid for cleaning? NO
[Inkspot] Is the fluid colourless? I don't know, but it could be I suppose.
Would you normally find it in the home?
Normally found in the home? Hmmmm, how pedantic do I want to be. YES, it could normally be found in a home; NO, a home is not the only place it is normally found.
Is it a measurement device?
Is the vegetable also part of the fluid?
[Kim] Measurement device? NO
[Inkspot] Is the vegetable also part of the fluid? NO
I think I need to provide a little guidance/clarification. The "manufactured object" does not contain any fluid.
Is it edible?
[Tuj] Edible? NO
Is it something that you put into a fluid?
Is it more likely to have a use in the workplace?
[Raak] Something that you put into a fluid? NO
[Chalky] More likely to have a use in the workplace? Possibly, but I'd say equally useful at home as at work.
Smaller than a toaster?
[Tuj] Smaller than a toaster? YES
Anything to do with sports?
Anything to do with cooking?
Is the vegetable part alive?
Is it something one could wear?
[Chalky] Sport? NO
[Rosie] Cooking? NO
[Tuj] Live vegetable? NO
[Darren] Something one could wear? Hmmm..it has been done, but I'd say NO.
Is it used to separate something from something else?
A newspaper? (The paper is dead vegetable, the printing ink being a fluid mineral, and newspapers have known to be worn on a couple of occasions, one can use it at home or in the office)
[Darren] To separate two things? NO *some whispering in the audience*
[irach] Newspaper? NO, *audience applauds irach's effort, despite it being wrong*
Is it printed paper?
Is paper involved?
Is is something to do with the arts?
[Raak] Printed paper? NO
[Tuj] Involves paper? NO
[Kim] To do with the arts? NO
*An audience member stands up and explains that they were applauding irach for applying his deductive powers and coming up with an excellent explanation, even though "newspaper" still isn't close*
A further hint/elaboration. The mineral fluid is used in the manufacture of the object from vegetable sources.
Was this thing "invented"?
[Phil] I'd realised what the audience were applauding for, but still did my daft guess anyway. Ah well.
medicinal?
[Tuj] Invented? YES
[Chalky] Medicinal? NO
Is the material used in arts and crafts?
[Raak] Used in arts and crafts? Can be, but not exclusively. *a ripple of applause*
Some sort of fixative or glue?
A model airplane made from balsa wood and epoxy adhesive?
[Chalky] Some sort of fixative or glue? YES *enthusiastic applause*
[irach] model aeroplane etc? NO
Good old-fashioned wood glue?
Wallpaper paste?
[Rosie] Wood glue? NO
[CHalky] Wallpaper paste? NO
An apology I applied too liberal a meaning to "fixative". Having now looked it up, I would have to give my earlier answer to Chalky as "NO, but getting close"
Polyfiller?
[Chalky] Polyfilla? NO
Play Doh?
Size?
I have no idea what size is made from, actually.
[Chalky] Playdoh? NO
[Raak] Size? NO (it's just weak wallpaper paste)
Papier maché?
Is it used in photography?
A plastic laminated card?
[Raak] Papier Maché? NO
[Kim] Photographical? NO
[irach] Plastic laminated card? NO *murmurs of interest from audience, who were starting to nod off*
Anyone for a summary?
What it is: it is manufactured; the vegetable aspect can be wood; the mineral aspect is fluid which is not entirely water and is probably colourless; it is found in the home and the workplace; it is smaller than a toaster; it was invented; it could be associated loosely with fixatives/glues.

What it's not: crisps; anything to do with booze; bigger than a phonebox; a tool; a container; anything to do with weather-forecasting (including barometers); involving sea water; a drink; starting with P; used as a cleaning fluid; a measurement device; linked to vegetal fluid; to do with sport or cooking; alive; something to wear (conventionally); a means of separation; a newspaper; printed paper; involving paper; to do with the arts; medicinal; a fixative or glue; model aeroplane; wood glue; wallpaper paste; polyfilla; playdoh; size; papier maché; plastic laminated card

Sellotape?
some sort of sealant?
[Tuj] Sellotape? YES, dagnammit, YES !!!! *rapturous applause*
[Chalky] A sealant? Well, as you can now see, it can be.
The vegetable is wood, cotton or hemp. That's dissolved in alkali to make viscose, then extruded into an acid bath to make cellophane. Rubber resin is applied to the cellophane to make Sellotape (or Scotch Tape or cellophane tape). My confusion over "fixative" was because I thought it meant something to fix one thing to another. Over to you Tuj, and congrats.
Ooh 'eck
Can I pass this one up? I'm probably not going to be around enough in the coming days - I'm packing & leaving for my second year of uni at present, a little mad (and no guarantee of having Internet at the other end yet...)
Whoever's in next with a good idea can take the baton.
May I ...?

VEGETABLE with traces of MINERAL with a strong ABSTRACT element.
A crucifix? (And if not, connected with religion?)
A vegetarian diet?
[Darren] Crucifix? NO
[ " ]Connected with religion? NO
[Rosie] A vegetarian diet? NO
Edible?
Connected with the arts?
[irach] edible? NO
[Darren] Connected with the arts? It depends on what you mean by the arts; there IS a tenuous connection but it would be more useful to you if I said NO.
Some sort of printed material?
[Raak] Some sort of printed material? YES
The Holy Bible?
Connected to an event?
[irach] Holy Bible? See Darren's first question (and the reply)
[Inkspot] Connected to an event? NO
Does it have pictures?
Is the vegetable wood?
A textbook of some kind?
[Darren] Pictures? Yes - sort of
[Inkspot] Wood? Yes
[Rosie] A textbook? YES
Was it first printed before 1900?
[Inkspot] printed before 1900? NO
The Highway Code?
[Iroule] Highway Code? NO
Connected to science?
Used in schools?
[Inks] Connected to science? Not in the sense I'm guessing you mean.
[Raak] Used in schools? I'll say NO so as not to mislead you, but this object can be used almost anywhere.
Is it a list in any sense?
A cookery book?
A computing book?
Is the author British?
*apologises for absence from game duty this weekend ..*
[Rosie] A list? In any sense? Erm .. no but then again .. SORT OF
[Iroule] Cookery? NO :-)
[Raak] Compooting? NO
[Inks] British Author? Originally, YES
Grammar book?
[irach] Grammar Book? NO
Jane's Fighting Ships?
Was it first printed before 1950?
[Rosie] Jane's? NO
[Iroule] Printed before 1950? YES
Is it revised and updated annually?
[Inks] Revised and updated annually? I don't think it's annual but it's certainly revised and updated regularly. Excellent question :-)
With alphabetically arranged entries?
[Projoy] Alphabetically arranged entries? IN PART
Wisden?
[Raak] Wisden? NO
Roget's thesaurus?
Is there a sporting connection?
[Darren] Roget's? NO
[Iroule] sporting connection? NO
Does it have satirical connotations?
An encyclopedia?
[Darren] satirical connotations? Nah
[Raak] Hen-sigh-klo-pee-dear? No it isn't and I'm surprised that no-one has asked that yet.

By way of a clue, I'm going to give a belated *audience applauds* to a question posed by Irouléguy on Saturday.
To do with transport?
A map?
[Rosie] Transport? Yes
[Raak] A map? No and YES *hurrah*
The A-Z?
AA members' handbook?
[Iroule] AA member's handbook? No, because ...
[Projoy] The answer is THE London A-Z, but that's the one you probably meant - so CHEERS FOR PROJOY :-)
Over to you ..
Okey doke... the next one is ANIMAL.
Living?
Human?
[irach] Living? YES
[Rosie] Human? YES
The Queen?
Helen Mirren?
Male?
Born before 1960?
Projoy?
Him *points*
A member of the Morniverse?
It's not me, is it?
[Raak] HMQ? No
[Ig] HM? No
[irach] Male? YES
[Inkspot] Natally prior to JFK Presidency? YES
[Darren] Me? No (I have, in fact, already been "done" in this game)
[Phil] Darren? No
[Rosie] A member of the Morniverse? No.
[Kim] Not you either, I'm afraid.
Born before 1900?
Fictional?
An entertainer?
A royal?
[Ig] A Pre-Labour Party baby? No.
[UK] Fictional? No.
[Raak] Entertainer? No.
[Darren] A royal? No.
A scientist?
[Raak] A scientist, YES.
Physicist?
[Darren] Physicist? No.
A biologist?
[Raak] A biologist, YES.
Richard Dawkins?
[Darren] YES, that's the fella. Over to you.
Here we go: ABSTRACT/ANIMAL
A fictional character?
Animal instinct?
Fictional? No.
Animal instinct? No.
A grouping of animals?
Grouping of animals? In a manner of speaking.
Are the animals human?
An organisation?
A political party?
White elephant?
A sporting team?
Is the abstract element a generic term?
Animals=human? Yes.
Organisation? Yes.
Political party? Yes. (Applause on that one.)
White elephant? No.
Sporting team? No.
Abstract element=generic term? No.
A British political party?
British political party? Yes. (Again, applause.)
The Labour Party?
[Projoy] Labour? No.
The Monster Raving Loony Party?
Currently in existence?
Monster Raving Loony Party? No.
Currently in existence? Yes.
The Liberal Democrats?
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