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AVMA Take 2
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Yes, it's another round of that classic guessing game - Animal, Vegetable, Mineral, Abstract [or any combination thereof]. This effort - '03/'04 should address any queries, but then again, may just serve to confuse and baffle which some might say is the point of the game. Patience, integrity and a decent search engine may be useful ....
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Might I make a suggestion? This game went through a period [I think CdM started the trend and I'm sure you, Rosie, amongst others, followed the initiative] of putting the Yes/No replies next to, not just the name of the questioner, but also a C&P of the question. For those folks, like me at the moment, who can only rush in for a few moments, there isn't time to trawl back through the questions to match them to the replies .. so I end up not bothering to frame a question of my own. It may make for more participation ..
Born in the 18th Century?
Is he Welsh?
(Chalky) OK, not a bad idea.
Kim - Born in 18th C - No
Inkspot - Welsh? - Nag'dy (No)
Musically inclined chap?
A poet?
Well that's me stumped.
Born in the 19th Century?
(irach) Musical? - Not known for it.
Inkspot - Poet? - No
Kim - Born 19th century? - No.
- Born in the 20th Century?
Did he hold a political office?
British?
A scientist?
A cultural figure?
Dandalf - Born in 20th C? - No
Raak - Held a political office? - Well, sort of. Not what he's known for
ImNotJohn - British? - No
Inkspot - A scientist? - Yes *considerable applause*
Irouléguy - A cultural figure - No.
An astronomer?
Einstein?
Oops, not borh in 19th or 20th century. Ignore that, try this:
Galileo?
ImNotJohn - An astronomer? -Yes
Raak - Not Galileo.
Was he German?
Inkspot - German? - No
Did he have a silver nose?
.. Or Copper Knickers?
Is it indeed Copernicus? If so, award the win to Chalky.
Kepler?
Yes, his underwear was unusual and cupric, so courtesy of irach, CHALKY is the winner. (Raak) Don't geddit. :-(
[Rosie] Raak is referring to Tycho Brahe.
Here is The Straight Dope on the subject.
Marvellous - y'learn something new every day

V. generous [irach] :-) I now have a little more time to do one of these, so I think we'll go for ...

V E G E T A B L E
Tony Blair's Cabinet?
Does it grow on trees?
Is it edible?
Is it manufactured?
Hey Chalky, it's been more than an hour since Raak's question...
Is it just one species of vegetable?
[Raak] TB's cabinet? No *chuckle*
[Inks] Does it grow on trees? No
[INJ] Edible? Yes
[CdM] Manufactured? um .. Yes
[CdM] Yes - he's very eager, isn't he?
[Iroule] One species? Yes
Does it require cooking to make it edible?
[C/C] I just asked the question, I can wait...
[Raak] Cooking? Yes [with hesitation]
Is it a (culinary) dish?
Does it grow underground?
Porridge?
Is it a root vegetable?
(Raak) re Tycho Brahe - I didn't know that. What is also not too well known is that he died of a burst bladder and the consequent peritonitis. At a boozy banquet with the King of Denmark he dared not leave the table until His Maj had got up despite a certain degree of urgency. Awful.
Does it come in a tin?
Just seen irach's question, so my previous one was superfluous. Tut, tut!
- sauerkraut?
Associated with a particular country?
[Rosie] Ouch. I'm glad I just knew the nose part before!
[INJ] Culinary dish? Culinary = as in pertaining to the kitchen? Yes. Dish? Debatable
[Irach] Underground? No
[Raak] Porridge? No
[Rosie] Root veg? No
[Rosie] Come in a tin? Can do :-)
[Dandalf] sauerkraut? No
[Tuk] Associated with a particular country? Good question. More a particular region, I'd say
Is it a form of offal?
I like the story of his pet elk falling downstairs drunk after too much beer the best.
Ah, vegetable. Ok, is it a veggie imitation of some sort of offal?
Brussels sprouts?
Delicious steamed, or boiled quickly with chestnuts. Curried sprouts not such a good idea though.
[Raak] Fake offal? No :-)
[Iroule] Brussels Sprouts? No

NB: Correction to my reply to Inkspot's first question "Does it grow on trees?" - broadly speaking, my reply should have been Yes.
A fruit of some kind?
[Rosie] A fruit of some kind? No
Is the region it's associated with in Europe?
A spice?
It grows on trees - is it Spaghetti?
[Iroule] Europe? No
[Dandalf] A spice? No
[Kim] Grows on trees? - Yes, but not spaghetti
Associated with Asia?
Does one drink it?
[INJ] Asia? Yes *cheers from audience*
[Raak] Drink it? Yes *even louder cheers from audience*
Darjeeling tea?
[Iroule] Darjeeling tea? ONE WORD is correct! *gasps of anticipation*
Jee, darling, which could it be? Um...Assam tea?
Earl Grey Tea? (©Alan Bennett)
[Iroule] Assam tea? sorry, No
[Rosie] Earl Grey Tea? No to that as well :-(
Is there just one word on the card?
[Raak] There are TWO words on the card [one of them is tea] and I predict you'll guess it very soon ...
Green Tea?
Actually, I hope I'm wrong as I'm just about to go away and be incommunicado until Sunday evening.
Jasmine tea?
Oolong tea?
Isn't it always the way ... ImNotJohn wins it by a short head from his uncle!
I'll hand over the baton - do with it as you will ...
There will now be a short intermission, while ImNotJohn goes away.
And then again
Struggling slightly with an azerty keyboard, as I'm logged in at Hbach's. So here's an Abstract to be going on with. I might get on again tomorrow morning.
The azerty keyboard layout?
Dexterity?
Qwerty?
The notion of nationality?
Is it an action?
Is it a work of art?
Arachno-syndicalism (sic)
Back to normal now
[Raak]: azerty keyboard - NO
[Rosie]: Dexterity? - NO
[Kim]: qwerty - NO
[Tuj]: notion of nationality - NO
[Inkspot]: an action - NO
[Chalky]: a work of art? - NO
[Rosie]: The National UInion of Spiders - NO
One of the seven deadly sins?
[Chalky] a deadly sin - NO
A natural occurrence?
Something mathematical?
[Chalky]: natural occurrence - NO
[Raak]: Something mathematical? - NO (one or two of the audience are raised from their slumbers)
Something geometric?
[Kim]: Something geometric - NO (the level of snoring is rapidly rising towards previous levels)
A human construct? [well - someone had to ask]
Something to do with time?
[Chalky]: human construct? - YES
[Inks]: Something to do with time? - NO
An invention?
Still cold
[Chalky]: invention? - NO
A form of entertainment?
Are numbers involved?
Getting Warmer
[Chalky]: A form of entertainment? - Not in itself (but you've woken the audience up)
[Iroul]: Are numbers involved? - YES (but only loosely)
Is it something that comes in the form of a set of a certain number of things?
7 D S, 3 B M, 4 C V, etc.
[Raak] a numbered set? - NO (but the odd stutter of stifled applause)
Any music connections?
[Chalky] music connections? - NO
Is this a game of some sort?
and if so, more specifically, a card game?
A lottery?
[Chalky]: a game of some sort? - NO, not as such (But some applause)
[Dandalf]: a card game? - NO, not as such (Loud and prolonged applause)
[Raak] - a lottery? - NO
Solitaire?
A competition of some kind?
A sport?
the audience subsides
[Néa]: Solitaire? - NO (I see where you're coming from, but I would have called that a game - I'm not being deliberately awkward)
[Chalky]: A competition? - NO
[Projoy]: A sport? - NO
Anything to do with greetings cards?
A day that celebrates something?
[Raak]: greetings cards - NO (clever but not close)
[Chalky]:A day that celebrates something? - NO
As the audience has indicated - Dandalf is the person who's got closest so far
Is it anything to do with gambling?
[Chalky]: connected with gambling? - YES (applause)
Is a set of playing cards involved?
Bingo?
Betting Slips (especially abstract ones)
Political Voting?
(ignore my last)
Damn, I meant political betting. Although I'm now going to change again and ask whether it's an election.
Quite warm now
[Raak]: Is a set of playing cards involved? - YES
[Raak] Bingo - NO
[Projoy]: Political Voting/Betting/election? - NO
Tarot
[Projoy]: Tarot - NO (neither divination nor the game - since it isn't a game)
A card trick?
[Iroul]: A card trick? - NO
shufflling?
-l
[Projoy]: shuffling - NO
I don't think you need a clue - you've got the information you need to home in on this.
Three Card Monte?
(although I suppose that is probably classified as a card trick, come to think of it)
Dealing?
[CdM]: Three Card Monte? - NO - there's no trickery involved
[Chalky]: Dealing? - NO
Is it the name of one of the suits?
[Projoy]: a suit - NO
You're not taking sufficient account of one of the bits of audience reaction
A full house?
Bridge?
Not a game; war.
"the turn of a card"
Marked cards?
[CdM]: A full house? - NO (gasp from the audience mixed with loud and prolonged applause)
[Rosie]: Bridge? - NO
[Chalky]: the turn of a card? - NO
[Raak]: Marked cards? - NO
A Royal Flush?
House of Cards (the metaphor, hence abstract)
A winning hand?
Two pairs?
We have a winner
And Chalky it is - a Royal Flush.
Over to you.
oops
oh dear - I didn't intend to win that, even though I made a lot of the running. Erm ... how about a nice easy
V E G E T A B L E [with a teensy bit of Abstract]
to get us through the day ..
edible?
A deserved victory, I thought, though CdM's close shave nearly brought about a lurkers win.
Is it a fruit?
[INJ] Edible? NO
[Iroule] Fruit? NO
Manufactured/Processed?
Wood?
[CdM] Manufactured/Processed? YES
[Raak] Wood? NO
Paper?
Cotton?
Textile?
[Dandalf] Paper? NO
[Inks] Cotton? YES *audience cheers*
[Raak] Textile? YES
clothing?
Jeans?
Welsh Rugby shirt
[INJ] Clothing? audience gasps and anticipates a speedy conclusion* YES
[Projoy] Jeans? NO
[Inks] Welsh Rugby Shirt? NO
A Gap t-shirt?
(adding in a teensy bit of abstract)
[CdM] Gap t-shirt? NO (well referenced, though :-))
Incy wincy teeny weeny yellow polka dot bikini?
A little bit of both
the shirt off my back?
Scrub that... How about "my little cotton socks"?
Knickers?
[Inks] i w t w y p d bikini? Isn't it 'itsy witsy' - you may be confusing said garment with a spider :-) NO
[Projoy] the shirt off your back? scrubbed .... but

.. YOU ARE CORRECT WITH 'LITTLE COTTON SOCKS' [Aw bless]

[Rosie] same to you :-)

*vacates the chair to make room for Projoy*
Hmmm. OK. ANIMAL & VEGETABLE (abstract too, but we needn't worry too much about that). I'm going away at the weekend, so I might hand the answer to some trustworthy person if we haven't got it by then...
A bit of further research reveals there is probably a small MINERAL part to it, but don't get too hung up on it.
A manufactured item?
[Inks, Chalky] I believe it's actually "itsy bitsy".
Is it something to eat?
[INJ] Manufactured - YES, literally
[Raak] To eat - NO.
A sporran?
[INJ] A sporran - NO (out of curiosity, is there anything vegetable in a sporran?)
A musical instrument?
Raak - musical instrument - NO, not musical
Something you wear?
Vegetable in a sporran - surely the authentic ones have real thistles?
[Irouléguy] Something you wear - NO
Is the animal part leather?
[Raak] Leather? Hm. I had to resort to a dictionary to find the answer, which is NO (but only just)
Is the vegetable part some sort of colouring?
[Raak] vege coloring? YES!
Woad?
(INJ) Itsy bitsy it is. I heard it when it first came out ca 1959. Even amongst us horny 16-yr-olds it was regarded as simply pathetic.
Is the not-really-leather part parchment?
Is the animal part a particular non-human animal?...if that makes sense
The Magna Carta?
Is it an object which can fit in the palm of your hand?
Is the animal part (which isn't leather) some other products of animal skin?
A knitted tea-cosy? [something manufactured (literally!) from dyed sheep's wool but which isn't worn]
[CdM] YES!!! - a superb bit of deduction.
and for the other questions, therefore...
[Raak] YES, vellum to be precise
[Inkspot] YES, a goat, I think, although I'm not sure
[Dandalf] NO
[Kim] YES
[Dandalf] Good guess, but NO

Well, that's handy, as I now have to go and catch my train to Manchester to see Lib singing. Over to you, CdM.
OK... This one is ABSTRACT with ANIMAL connections.
is the animal human?
Human? No.
Did it happen in the past?
Is the animal a symbol?
Fictional?
Did it happen in the past? Did what happen in the past?
Animal a symbol? That is not its primary purpose, but it can be interpreted in a symbolic way. I'm not sure that's helpful, though.
Fictional? Yes.
Capricon?
Is the animal a carnivore?
Written fiction?
A mythical creature?
Capricorn? No.
Carnivore? Yes.
Written fiction? In part, yes.
Mythical? No (unless you take a very broad definition of mythical).
The lion king?
Lion king? No.
A single specific animal?
Aslan?
A cartoon character?
Agnus Dei?
If we find out the animal, will we have the answer?
Single specific animal? Yes.
Aslan? No.
Cartoon character? Yes (unless you take a very narrow definition of cartoon) *applause*
Agnus Dei? No.
Animal = answer? Yes.
Clarification: I should probably have answered 'Cartoon Character?' with "In part, yes".
Is the cartoon part animated?
Jessica Rabbit?
A newspaper cartoon?
Animated? In part, yes.
JR? No.
Newspaper cartoon? In part, yes.
There is a noticeable lack of applause accompanying these partly correct suggestions.
Did this fictional carnivore first exist in writing?
Was it first illustrated before 1948?
First exist in writing? I could answer "in part, yes", but I think it is fairer to say that 'in writing' is not how one would typically describe its first incarnation.
First inkspotted, er, illustrated before 1948? Yes. *applause*
Rupert Bear?
RB? No.
Is the animal a mammal?
Mammal? Strictly speaking, I think the answer has to be no. *some muttering in the audience*
Was its creator Walt Disney?
Is the animal aquatic?
Disney creation? No.
Aquatic? No.
Summing up: we are looking for a fictional, carnivorous, single specific animal, which is in part a newspaper cartoon character, and in part an animated cartoon character (we don't know if those are the same parts) and in part comes from written fiction, though "'in writing' is not how one would typically describe its first incarnation." It can be interpreted symbolically, though that's not necessarily helpful, and it is not mythical. Strictly speaking, it's not a mammal (though the audience muttered about that answer). It's neither a Disney creation, nor acquatic.

Was its first incarnation in the 19th century?
No wonder the audience muttered - it's either a mammal or not a mammal - nothing in between, however strictly one speaks!
Does it appear in the works of Lewis Carroll?
Is it aimed at an adult audience?
Hobbes?
[Irouléguy] Excellent summation. Minor clues: I would not put too much emphasis either on newspaper cartoons or written fiction.
[Dandalf] Well, we can discuss that when the round is over. :-)
19th Century? No.
Lewis Carroll? No. *some smiles in the audience*
Adult audience? That's not really the target market, although many adults like at least some incarnations.
Hobbes? No.
A clue: When I set this AVMA I expected a question to which I could give a correct but misleading answer. And you fell right into my trap. Mwahahahaha!
Does the animal take human form?
Human form? Yes! *applause*
A superhero?
Superhero? Yes. *applause*
Superman?
*hands the kryptonite rod to Raak*
Superman? YES!

As for "mammal", my uncertainty was the following. As far as I know, Superman has all of the traits that are usually taken as defining a mammal. But I think that the strict definition of the term has an evolutionary basis, and thus cannot apply to someone not from earth. I expect to be corrected by either a biologist or the morniverse equivalent of Comic-Book Man from The Simpsons.
MINERAL
Largely or exclusively metal?
An engagement ring?
Manufactured?
[CdM] Mostly metal? Yes.
[I] Not an engagement ring.
[Rosie] Manufactured? Yes.
Bigger than a phonebox?
Unique?
[GL] Bigger than a phonebox.
[Néa] Unique.
A sculpture?
Is it in the UK?
[Phil] Not a sculpture.
[I] Not in the U.K. (the audience is amused)
Eiffel Tower? [CdM] You win! but (a) not mythical and (b) carnivore (are you sure?) suggested a real biological species.
[Davdand] Not the Eiffel Tower.
Beagle 2
[Inkspot] (APPLAUSE!) Not Beagle 2.
Extant?
[D] You may well be right about my answer to "mythical?". Since I had already said that the answer was fictional, I interpreted 'mythical' more narrowly. But one definition of 'mythical' is 'fictitious', so perhaps I was misleading. As for carnivore, I recently saw an episode of Lois and Clark (not my fault; my daughter is currently Superman-obsessed) in which Clark Kent ate a hamburger...
A more successful solar exploration thingy?
[Cdm]I would agree with you on your interpretation of 'mythical'. Superman could not be described as a mythical creature or person.
[I] Yes. (More applause! )
Voyager?
Not the Star Trek variety.
[Projoy] Not Voyager.
The Tardis?
I'd agree with CdM too, particulaly as Superman is a member of a particular (fictional) species. Is one difference between fiction and myth that a fiction has a specific author, but a myth doesn't? (Although that would make Robin Hood mythical rather than fictional, so hmm...)
[I] Not the Tardis. (the audience look glum)
Skylab?
I don't agree with CdM, Superman is an omnivore rather than a carnivore just like Ordinaryman.
A European mission?
[GL] Not Skylab.
[I] (pause to research this) Partly European.
Cassini-Huygens?
Yes! When I checked up on the telephone box q, I was quite surprised to find out how big it is.
Yay, thank you for that one Raak, and for my first time in the chair in this game ANIMAL
A single animal?
Mammal?
A single animal - Yes
Mammal - Yes
that should read [Irouléguy]A single animal - Yes [Gusset Login]Mammal - Yes
Currently alive?
[Raak]Currently alive - No
Human animal?
[irach] Human animal - Yes
Male?
[I] That's not a distinction I saw in my googling/dictionary checking, but it's an interesting idea. Mind you, at this point Superman certainly has multiple authors as well.
[GL] My bad: I think you're right. It is pretty clear at least that Superman is not an "obligate carnivore" (a term I just learned, meaning solely flesh-eating). And given that I also saw Superman eat a bomb in another episode, "omnivore" seems more appropriate. Googling seems to indicate, however, that the strict definition of these terms has to do with the necessity of different types of food in terms of nutrients. I actually have no idea if Superman has to eat anything.
British?
Scientist?
[Rosie]British - Yes
[irach] Scientist - No
Best known for cultural/artistic achievements?
[ImNotJohn]Best known for cultural/artistic achievements - Yes
Purcell?
[Raak]Purcell - No
Alive in the 20th century?
Musical connections?
[Raak]Alive in the 20th century - Yes
[ImNotJohn] Musical connections - No
An Actor?
You didn't answer CdM's question about maleness
ooops
[CdM]Male - Yes
[Gusset Login] - An Actor - No
A painter and/or sculptor?[sneaking in two for the price of one ;-) ]
A writer?
A mime?
[Dandalf] A painter and/or sculptor - No
[Rosie]A writer - taking the narrowest definition No
[Raak]A mime - No
A performer of some sort?
[Gusset Login] A performer of some sort - No
To do with cinema?
[Dandalf] To do with cinema - No
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