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AVMA Take 2
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Yes, it's another round of that classic guessing game - Animal, Vegetable, Mineral, Abstract [or any combination thereof]. This effort - '03/'04 should address any queries, but then again, may just serve to confuse and baffle which some might say is the point of the game. Patience, integrity and a decent search engine may be useful ....
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A part of the U.S.?
A National Park or part thereof?
The Grand Canyon ? ( It is in North America, there IS a Grand Canyon University, there is a lot of earth's crust to see there, there is some liquid-the Colorado among other forms found there, it sure does fit the bill).
[If the above IS the answer I would argue its classification as purely "Mineral" though, as the flora and fauna are also an integral part of the Grand Canyon as a whole].
*exhausted, the audiience can do nothing but sigh in pleasure* We have a winner - it is THE GRAND CANYON! Purely mineral? Not sure about irach's argument, but I'll think about it.
Anyway, the baton finally gets passed on - take it away, irach!
[Irouleguy] Thanks.! What was the Organized religion connection though? Bob Dylan I think I know.
Here goes. Well, its MINERAL once again.
[irach] hmmmm - hope it's snappier than the last one :-)
[Iroulé] GCanyon - classification, perhaps Mineral with Vegetable [and possibly Animal] connections?
Is it man made?
I have never seen a more self-indulgent and comprehensively misleading set of comments as in the last AVMA. The Grand Canyon has no more to do with the earth's crust than has the Vale of Evesham. It's a surface feature FFS. So why did the audience wet themselves, generally an indication that one has very nearly hit the bull?
[Chalky] Not man made.
Sorry.. [Inkspot] Not man made.
It is a geographical feature?
Call me pedantic, but I would argue that the Grand Canyon is composed entirely of air.
Chalky] Possibly - but then you'd have to apply that to practically every place or geological formation. Would that definition help you to get Everest, for instance?

Rosie] I may have misunderstood what I Googled - I'm no scientist. But this is from the GC National Park's website: The Canyon’s mile-high walls display a largely undisturbed cross section of the Earth’s crust extending back some two billion years.
from http://www.nps.gov/grca/pphtml/subnaturalfeatures14.html
and lots of sites talk about the GC being made by upheavals in the earth's crust, so that was the basis of my reaction. I'm sorry if it was misleading, and you're right about the self-indulgent bit - sorry again.

Kim] Well, that was why I was unsure about the answers to "solid" and "object". But it can't be all air - what about the floor or the sides of the canyon?

move] Is there just one of it?
[Kim} No. Not a geographical feature. [Irouleguy] There are more than one of these.
Is it a weather phenomenon?
(Irouléguy) Talk of the earth's crust made me think the answer was something to do with the material of the earth well below the surface whereas the Grand Canyon (and Cheddar Gorge) were gouged out by running water, i.e. surface erosion. Not to worry. :-)
[Rosie] No.
Is it metal?
[Irouléguy] Yes!
[Chalky] Not metallic per se, though there may sometimes be metal salts or ions embedded within it.
A precious stone?
{Rosie] No.
Is an individual one of these bigger than an elephant?
Chalky] OK2
A component of a man-made object such as Stonehenge?
[Irouleguy] Generally it is considerably larger than an elephant.
[Rosie] No, it's not possible to make any man-made object from it/them using any known contemporary technology.
An asteroid?
Or, more specifically, a meteor (or even more specifically, one or more Perseid meteors)
FWIW, I'll come to Irouléguy's defence here: (i) I think the categorization of the GC as mineral is entirely reasonable, since the flora and fauna are not an essential part of the Canyon; (ii) I think the positive response to the earth's crust was also reasonable (although I agree that the audience went a bit over the top), since a "no" would have been a more misleading answer; (iii) "self-indulgent" is an unfairly harsh term, given that he was just injecting some humor.
(CdM) Agree on (i), not on (ii); (iii) is more a matter of taste. BTW a meteor the size of an elephant would fall to earth and cause a lot of damage and would then be classed as a meteorite. Can't be that, but we'll see.
[Rosie] Not an asteroid or meteorite [CdM] Not a meteor, Perseid or otherwise. (However, the audience sits up in rapt attention, biting its nails in great anticipation of the next guess. Not quite cigar yet, but close).
A comet?
[Rosie] You are absolutely right about the elephant, of course.
[CdM} A Comet ? YES!!! Congratulations! How spatial! What a brilliant win! The tail end of this guessing game was great! Here's to many more, the sky is the limit! The baton is passed, so take it away...
[CdM} A Comet ? YES!!! Congratulations! How spatial! What a brilliant win! The tail end of this guessing game was great! Here's to many more wins, the sky is the limit! The baton is passed, so take it away...
[Irouleguy] Wouldn't that be like saying that a hole in the ground comprises not only the hole but also the ground around the hole? I think the GC is just a big hole.
All right, let's get back into the ethereal world of the ABSTRACT.
(with ANIMAL connections)
The bee's knees?
(or should I move that apostrophe?)
Nope. Nor the cat's pyjamas, or a dog's dinner. However, the audience applauds for the fact that the answer is indeed of the form: Definite article + 2 words.
Is the answer of the form "The + animal's + part of animal"?
No. But since I am feeling generous, I will tell you that the answer is of the form: "The + part of animal + something that is not an animal at all".
The skin of one's teeth? ...and thank you, though even I think I was being self-indulgent.
Kim] Yes. If the GC's just a great big hole, what defines where the hole ends?
The heart's desire?
(CdM) Useful generosity. :-)
The heart of the matter?
The foot of the stairs?
The brains of the operation?
Is the something that is not an animal at all an abstract noun?
[CdM] So what if there's more than one bee?
Or rather, why is it just one bee? I suppose I'm just hoping someone round here happens to know a lot about the phrase...
The Lion's share?
[Tuj] I've always thought it came from a colloquial bastardisation of business - in the sense of "he's the beeesneees" - meaning suited.
Ingnore that post. It's part of an animal. Go back to sleep, Duj.
skin of teeth? No. Some applause from audience, though.
heart's desire? No.
heart of matter, foot of stairs, brains of operation; No, no, no. The + two words, remember.
third word abstract noun? Yes.
lion's share? No.
Is the animal human?
The tooth fairy?
We have a winner! The tooth fairy it is. *places baton under pillow for Rosie to find*
(CdM) It's gone. But I'm richer by 25 pesetas. What joy!

Right, this is MINERAL and ABSTRACT

Does it appear in a particular work of fiction?
Is it man-made?
(Inkspot) - No
(Irouléguy) - No
Does the abstract have something to do with measurement?
(Dujon) Not a thing, I'm afraid. I'm going to bed now - it's 3 a.m. :-(
Cassiopeia?
Is the mineral metal?
(CdM) - No
(ImNotJohn) - No
Is the abstract because it's fictional?
Is it one particular thing?
(Gusset Login) - No, certainly not. Abstract is a valid part-classification but don't concentrate too much on it.
(Irouléguy) No, there are lots of these.
A lodestone?
Is it a human construct?
(Software) - No
(ImNotJohn) No. The abstract nature is not an idea.
The Philosopher's Stone?
(irach) - No.
The Giant's Causeway?
Rock of Ages?
Is it found in a particular place?
Is the mineral solid?
(Kim) - No
(pper) - No
(Tuj) There are lots of them (see above) and there are certainly preferred places.
(Irouléguy) A small amount of it is in some cases, otherwise no.
Ocean currents?
(ImNotJohn) - No
Clouds?
(Irouléguy) - No, but *some applause*
Precipitation?
Can you drink it?
(CdM) - Not the answer, but always involved *more applause*
(Tuj) - You can, and ultimately you do, in some cases.
Rain?
April Showers?
Singing in the Rain?
(irach) - See the answer to CdM's question
(ImNotJohn) - No
(RedSnapper)- No
Tornados?
A meteorological phenomenon?
(Irouléguy) - No - but *some polite applauase*
(Tuj) - Yes *rather more fulsome applause*
The monsoon?
(Raak) - No
Floods?
(irach) - No, but a strong connection.
A spring thaw?
(Dujon) - No, not quite that strong a connection.
Does this involve significant air pressure differences?
A hurricane?
The hydrological cycle?
Is it a one-word answer?
well waddya know - I return after a few days away and here's Rosie - doing a weather one!
(Dujon) - Can do, but that is possibly misleading
(CdM) - No
(Raak) - No
(Chalky) - One word preceded by the indefinite article.
A tsunami?
A thunderstorm?
A cloudburst?
A shower?
(Chalky, ImNotJohn, all) - No, but
*Thunderous applause* for Irouléguy with his bolt from the cumulonmimbus. It it indeed a thunderstorm. Carry on, squire.
Squire tat work this afternoon. A lightning-quick round there - let's hope this one is as quick. I promise to keep the audience sober this time. It is ABSTRACT, involving ANIMAL, VEGETABLE and MINERAL.
An Anarcho-syndicalist protest march?
[Rosie] Is the existence of precipitation what makes it a thunderstorm rather than an electrical storm (c.f. your reply to CdM)?
INJ] One of these days, but not today.
An organisation?
(INJ) Technically, and probably in popular parlance too, a thunderstorm is defined by the electrical phenomena but there has to be precipitation for this to happen, but it need not be at the point of observation and a there's a specific meteorological code number for this (17, for the anoraks, of which I am one). There is no code figure for "freak storm" BTW. Top whack is 99, "heavy thunderstorm with hail", the "heavy" referring to the precipitation rather than the lightning and thunder. Also, I've noticed that "anarcho" is an anagram of "arachno". What have spiders got to moan about? There are 1014 of them, apparently.
An organisation? No.
Is the animal component human?
Is the vegetable part paper?
Does it move?
Is it a country?
irach] Human? *sustained applause* Yes
Raak] Paper? No
Kim] Does it move? *cries of "OOOH!"* More accurate to say that it involves movement
Chalky] A country? No
Is it a sport?
Is it geographical?
Relocation?
Does it involve dancing?
Rosie] Is it a sport? *cheering and loud applause* Not a sport, exactly, but close...
Tuj] Is it geographical? No.
Chalky] Relocation? No
Dujon] Does it involve dancing? No
tai chi?
[Rosie] I lived in Africa for a year and for a few weeks before the start of the rains there were repeated electrical storms but no rain reached the ground. Would the precipitation have been contained within the cloud structure? (feel free to transfer to the banter page if there's a long explanation - or tell me to go and look it up for myself!)
INJ] Tai chi? No
Extreme Ironing?
If not a sport, then a performance of some kind?
(ImNotJohn) OK - See Banter Page.
Does it involve a group of people doing something?
ImNotJohn] Extreme Ironing? No
Rosie] A performance of some kind? Yes, in the sense of Raak's answer below, but not more than that.
Raak] Does it involve a group of people doing something? *a mighty cheers rises from the audience* A perfect definition.
After-work drinks now, so no more for a few hours.
Does this collective activity require a fair amount of skill and practice?
Don't get too pissed; we need answers. :-)
A beer festival?
Rosie] Does this collective activity require a fair amount of skill and practice? No, neither (you can do it pissed, though there is an attendant danger).
Raak] A beer festival? No, but it is a mild form of exercise.
A Mexican Wave?
An orgy?
well - someone had to say it
Are the Vegetable and Mineral components essential equipment for this activity?
Is it a type of dancing?
Rosie] A Mexican Wave? No
Chalky] An orgy? No - this is perfectly SFW
CdM] Are the Vegetable and Mineral components essential equipment for this activity? *sustained applause* Yes - one of them is part of the name (though equipment isn't quite the mot juste for most of them)
Raak] Is it a type of dancing? No
Is it a traditional activity?
ImNotJohn] Is it a traditional activity? Depends on the definition. The name of this activity dates from the last century, but people almost certainly did it before then.
Is the mineral liquid?
ImNotJohn] Is the mineral liquid? *cheering and stamping of feet* Yes, liquid is one of the necessary components, though other minerals may also be involved in another component.
Ye Olde Timme-Tamme Sucke?
CdM] Ye Olde Timme-Tamme Sucke? Ouch - I wondered how long it would be before that came up. No, and not remotely close. Hint - finding the vegetable would help.
Is the vegetable edible (by which I mean normally eaten, not just that it won't actually kill you7)?
Is it that game where you have to dunk your head into a bucket of water and grab an apple with your teeth?
[I feel sure there must be a simpler name for it]
Is the liquid water?
[Chalky] I know it as 'Bobbing for Apples' or 'Apple Bobbing'.
Is it normally carried out indoors?
ImNotJohn] Is the vegetable edible (by which I mean normally eaten, not just that it won't actually kill you)? No
Chalky] Is it that game where you have to dunk your head into a bucket of water and grab an apple with your teeth? No
ImNotJohn] Is the liquid water? Yes
Rosie] Is it normally carried out indoors? No
Is the vegetable wood?
Water Divining?
CdM - Is the vegetable wood? *cheers and whooping from the audience* Yes. There are four necessary components of the answer - three you've got, the fourth is either vegetable, mineral or a combination of both.
Could this be descibed as an outdoor leisure pursuit?
Messing about in boats?
Chalky] Could this be described as an outdoor leisure pursuit? Yes
Raak] Messing about in boats? No
Angling?
Rosie] Angling? No
Poohsticks?
Croquet?
sorry - strike that. It doesn't involve water.
Water Polo?
We have a winner! Raak takes the baton - yes, it's Poohsticks. Good game, everyone.
ABSTRACT
Tiddly pom...
A drunken Brit in Australia?
A human construct?
[Rosie] No; yes.
A property of the physical world?
[Rosie] No.
A philosophical concept?
A single noun?
The sound of one hand clapping?
[irach] No.
[Tuj] A noun phrase.
[CdM] No.
A description of some human endeavour?
Is it specific to some particular historical period?
[i] Yes.
[I] No.
Is this endeavour in any way heroic, such as climbing Everest, or Leith Hill, come to that?
[Rosie] Only by humorous hyperbole.
Is it specific to a geographical location/area?
[INJ] No.
Is it a sport or recreational activity?
[CdM] No. Quite the opposite, really.
Bone idle?
[I] No, a different opposite.
Are the endeavouring individuals typically in receipt of renumeration for their participation in this abstract human construct? Does it pay?
[CdM] Yes. *murmurs from the audience of "oooh, they're getting warm!"*
Is it being in/on Big Brother?
[bl] No.
The working day?
Is it a routine administrative task?
Bringing home the Bacon?
[INJ] No (but you're getting warmer).
[R] No.
[Rs] No (also warmer).
Working up a sweat?
[i] No.
Working nine to five?
Is the answer a figurative phrase?
Putting one's nose to the grindstone?
[irach] Close...
[Rosie] No.
[ResSnapper] Also close...
Does it apply to a particular trade or profession?
[INJ] No.
Working all hours?
Overtime?
[I] No.
[R] No.
The players are hot on the track...
the day job?
[INJ] No.
Working like a dog?
A Hard Day's Night
?
(ahem...)
Burning the midnight oil?
[All] No. These could all be involved, but there's a crucial component no-one's mentioned yet.
A hint: the words on the card do not make any explicit reference to work.
Does the "crucial xcomp
Does the "crucial component" occur in all types of work?
Stuttering.
All work and no play?
[Rosie] No.
[irach] Inching closer...
Whistle while you work?
Does the answer contain an explicit reference to time or a period of time?
Working day and night?
[i] No.
[INJ] Yes.
[RS] No.
Working until you drop dead?
[irach] No.
Working overtime?
Is the referenced time a season?
Does this only occur in/refer to manual work?
The night shift?
Remember guys - there is no specific reference to work
[irach] No.
[Dujon] It can be called one, but not one of the canonical four.
[I] No.
[INJ] No.
Is the referenced time a holiday period?
Does the answer relate to the licensing laws?
[CdM] *riotous applause* Yes!
[CdM] No.
Is the referenced time period Christmas?
[CdM] No.
Wakes week?
[I] No.
A Bank holiday?
Begins with an M?
[I] No.
[Tuj] Er, no.
Summary of what has been established: it's connected with holidays, and connected with work, while not being either.
A working vacation?
[irach] No.
Days of wine and roses?
[I] No.
Anything to do with preparation for a holiday?
Labo(u)r Day?
[Rosie] Absolutely not.
[irach] No.
Leisure Time?
[Chalky] No.
Anything to do with the aftermath of a holiday?
[CdM] *riotous applause* Yes!
Boxing Day?
Something to do with the holiday you need after having been on holiday?
[irach] No.
[Rosie] No. Think simpler.
A tan?
How simple is that?
[Rosie] No.
Holiday Pay?
[Chalky] No.
Monday morning?
Er, except it doesn't begin with an M. OK,
is the holiday the weekend?
[CdM] No; no.
Your earlier guess that drew the applause was the closest yet, and I might just give it to you if no-one comes up with something closer by the end of today.
Post - holiday blues
and if I'm correct - I shall say thank you to CdM
[Chalky] No.
...although it could be involved.
Jet Lag?
[GL] That can also happen when this happens.
Is it to do with the aftermath of the holiday as experienced by the holidaymaker (as opposed to, say, those who have to clean up after the revelries)?
[CdM] Yes.
Back to work after the holidays?
[RS] YES!
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