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AVMA Take 2
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Yes, it's another round of that classic guessing game - Animal, Vegetable, Mineral, Abstract [or any combination thereof]. This effort - '03/'04 should address any queries, but then again, may just serve to confuse and baffle which some might say is the point of the game. Patience, integrity and a decent search engine may be useful ....
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Is the vegetable part some form of dried grass (straw, hay, etc)?
A window box?
[Irouléguy] The funny thing is, it can be, but that's such an incredibly misleading answer!
[Raak] No.

Does anyone want a clue?

(Darren) Yes please. Most of the answers seem to be a Pythonesque "could be". I detect widespread bafflement, of which I'm part. :-)
"Could be" is partly because I'm a vague person, and partly because I don't like leading people up too many dark alleys. Anyway, a clue: it's a kind of puzzle.
Is it generally placed on the floor, or is it in fact part of the floor?
Can one place umbrellas in it? As part of its normal usage, that is?
[irach] No and no.
[RedSnapper] No.
puzzled
Does this have any physical manifestation at all? Or is it purely conceptual?
confused
(Ansering my own questions) we're looking for the physical object. Is it essential to the game or puzzle? That is, can one play without the thing?
Dominoes?
[Effable] No, one cannot do this puzzle without the thing.
[Gusset Login] No.
Can it be turned off, or easily hidden away when house guests arrive?
Would you allow house guests to use yours? Even if they were only casual acquaintances ?
[irach] Turned off? No. Hidden away? Yes.
[RedSnapper] House guests? Yes. Casual acquaintances? Yes.
Is it typically held in one's hand when in use?
A Rubik Cube?
[irach] Yes... and yet no.
[Rosie] No.
A "Fifteen" puzzle?
Is the 'puzzle' a word game?
Su doku?
I hope I'm wrong.
pick-a-stix [that game with long pointy things]
[Rosie] No.
[Dujon] No.
[all] No.
[Chalky] No.
irach's question about holding it is a potentially rewarding line of enquiry.
Scoubi-dou? (spelling?)
A Magic Wand?
One of those stick-like things that will spin one way but not the other?
Spinning plates?
Is it some form of writing implement?
Playing cards?
[Irouléguy] No.
[ImNotJohn] No.
[Raak] No.
[Kim] No.
[irach] No.
[all] No.
A computer mouse?
A crossword puzzle?
paddle ball?
[irach] No.
[Rosie] No.
[all] No.
Could you take it on a camping trip with you without having to lug an electrical generator? Can you leave home without it?
Is the vegetable part of it part of its name?
[irach] (1) Yes. (2) Yes.
[Irouléguy] No.
Is it used in a recreation involving more than one person?
pooh-sticks?
Was this puzzle around in 1950?
Jigsaw puzzle?
[Raak] As far as I know, no.
[Chalky] No.
[Rosie] Yes.
[irach] No.
Solitaire?
A piece of juggling apparatus?
[Rosie] No.
[Raak] No, unless you were a very unusual juggler.

Another clue, anyone?

(Darren) Go on.
Is it normal to have more than one?
Does the puzzle/game involve trying to catch something?
Is it rectangular with specific places where one's fingers go?
[all] (1) Neither normal nor abnormal. (2) No.
[RedSnapper] Rectangular? Depends which way you look at it. Specific places for fingers? Yes.
It is hollow?
[Raak] Yes.
Does it have moving parts?
Does it have keys or buttons to place one's fingers on?
Does it rhyme with "cord"?
[Effable] No. It's got flexible parts though.
[irach] (1) No. (2) No.
Is is a folded paper puzzle?
[Dazed5] No.
Does the puzzle involve getting things into or out of this thing?
Are you going to give us the clue Rosie asked for?
Are building blocks involved in any way?
Is it for children as well as adults?
Can you easily bend it? (assuming you have average, and not Herculean strength)
[Raak] Yes.
[all] I was going to but you seem to be getting pretty close now.
[Irouléguy] No.
[Chalky] Yes.
[irach] Yes.
Cat's Cradle?
A Chinese finger-trap?
[Rosie] No.
[Raak] YES! Well done!

So, it goes over to Raak for the next round.

A finger-trap made of wood?

The next one is MINERAL

[Raak] Yep, they can be made of wood.
Is it metallic?
is it solid?
Is it larger than a teacup? (An average one, not the spinning kind in Disneyland)
Is it man-made?
Is it a geological feature?
Is it on this planet?
Metallic? Yes.
Solid? Yes.
Larger than teacup? Yes.
Man-made? Yes.
Geological? No.
On Earth? Yes.
Is there only one of this?
[finger-trap] After googling and finding a picture I can now state certainly that I have never seen nor heard of it - is it me, or generational, or geographical?
[INJ] More than one.
[INJ] (fingertraps) I saw them as a child in Edinburgh, erm, later middle C20.
Do they come in different sizes?
Is this used in the home?
Chinese Finger Trap - I've never heard of this either. T'was rather an anticlimax really :-(
Different sizes: Yes.
In the home: No.
Do you typically see it when driving on the street?
[IMJ, Chalky - Type www.ebay.com and put in "Chinese Finger trap" in the Search box. You'll see pictures of this infernal device]
Could you lift it?
A poll of 7 friends in The Greyhound, Carshalton revealed only one who had ever heard of Chinese Finger Traps. I think The Object should always be well known, so no characters from cult novels etc, or obscure asteroids. The game is difficult enough.
Is it used in cooking?
Is it / are they used in industry?
Is it mobile?
Is it a construction of multiple parts?
[Darren et al] Sorry, didn't mean to complain - what is well-known to one person may be obscure to others. It did explain why we found it so difficult though.
Typically see while driving: No.
Lift it: Yes.
Cooking: No.
Industry: No.
Mobile: Yes (but not under its own power).
Construction of parts: Yes.
Is it bigger than a breadbox?
[Finger traps] I've heard of them, but didn't think they were made of wood. Normally it's straw or leather.
Bigger than breadbox: Yes.
Is it closer to being rectangular or circular when viewed head-on ?
Er...no.
Is one likely to encounter it/them in everyday life ?
[fingertraps] They can be (and are) made of all sorts of things, which is why I had to be so vague about it. I would have thought everyone would have heard of them. The thing is, it's hard for one person to tell what everyone else has heard of without asking explicitly beforehand. Still, someone got it in the end which is what counts.
[irach] Most people won't.
Meteorites?
Meteorites? No.
Powered by electricity?
No.
A container of some sort?
Yes. (amusement in the audience)
Is it associated with substances not normally mentioned in polite company?
No.
(The audience's amusement was due to the fact that "a container" is so precisely accurate a description that only a child would spontaneously think of calling it one.)
A chastity belt?
A pair of handcuffs?
No, and no.
Are they normally found above ground?
Yes.
Does it have any moving parts?
Let's see.. Metallic... Man made... On earth...Not used in cooking...Not used in industry...Made of multiple parts...Not typically seen when driving... Can be lifted...Not likely to be encountered by most people in everyday life...Not powered by elecctricity... Normally found above ground... Container of a sort (likely to induce chuckles)... Hmm .. sure sounds like a metallic bra by Jean-Paul Gaultier as worn by Madonna, but probably isn't.
Moving parts? Yes.
Metallic bra? No.
Industrial use, in a broad sense?
A waste paper bin?
Industrial? No.
Waste bin? No.
Clue yet?
Clue? Go on.
Try and find out its size.
OK - what size is it?
only kidding. Is it smaller than the Malaysian Peninsula?
Is it larger than the New Forest?
Smaller than both.
Is it larger than a thimble?
The Tardis?
*waves at CdM*
Have just taken the trouble to read back and it seems that it's BIGGER than a breadbox but you can LIFT it - the plot thickens
Bigger than a thimble.
Not the Tardis. And smaller than the outside of the Tardis.
[Chalky] Lots of things bigger than a breadbox that you can lift...or does breadbox not mean what I think it means?
Is it powered by human effort (like a bicycle)?
A suit of armour?
[INJ] Yes.
[Chalky] YES! Over to you.
Oo-er! That was rather unexpected. OK - as I'm here ...

A N I M A L / A B S T R A C T

Is it a fictional human?
Are they male?
The Cheshire Cat?
[I] Fictional Human? Yes
[GL] Male? Yes
[R] The Cheshire Cat? No
Are they best known for being a character in a film?
Is he an adult fictional human?
Appears in Victorian-era literature?
Is he a comic book or cartoon character?
Is he a character in a novel?
Is it a specific single individual?
[GL] character in film? Arguable, but I'd say No
[i] Adult? No
[RS] Victorian era? No
[i] comic/cartoon? No
[I] novel? Yes
[INJ] specific individual? Yes
Does the name of the novel include the name of the answer?
Does this non-adult fictional male character that appears in a novel hail from the British Isles?
was the novel written in English?
Harry Potter?
Going for the obvious...
Adrian Mole?
Going for very nearly as obvious...
sorry for the long wait - I went out tonight
[INJ] name including name? No
[i] British Isles? Yes
[E] English? Yes
[Ra] Harry boy? Nah - 'though going for the obvious may not be a bad move - this is a relatively well-known child character in a novel which, I think, most of us will have, or been forced to have, read at some point in our lives.
[Ro] Adrian? No
was Dickens the author of the novel?
Was this young fellow involved with pirates?
William Brown?
Is the child the main protagonist of the novel?
Does he appear in one novel, as opposed to a series?
[E] Dickens? No
[D] Pirates? If you're thinking R L Stephenson, then No
[R] William? No
[I] main protagonist? certainly one of them, Yes
[Néa] one novel? Yes

[I'll be away until lunchtime]

Piggy (from Lord of the Flies)?
I'm reasoning along the lines that it's 20th Century (although we only know that it's not Victorian) and that Chalky said we may have been forced to read it, which suggests something slightly more serious than HP or the Famous Five.
Was the novel written in the 20th century?
Just to confirm.
Wart?
Peter from 'The railway children'?
A Result
[I'm Not John] Your reasoning is exemplary - Piggy it is!

Well played - here's the baton ....

Well, what do you know?
Thank you, though you might have given the baton a bit of a wipe down before passing it on. The next one is
ANIMAL & VEGETABLE
Sausages and mash?
[Raak] No (but think how good you'll feel when one of your stabs in the dark does work)
A partridge in a pear tree?
The New Forest?
Is the vegetable part still attached and growing ton the plant or is it detached, and parts now combined with the animal product in question?
Hamburger and French Fries?
Irish stew?
[GL] No
[Chalky] No
[Irach] No ;-)......Oh, all right then - No and Yes(ish), but you've made a lot of assumptions
[RS] No
[Irach] No
Is this something you eat?
I was wondering when someone would ask that
[Raak] Yes
Would this be served as a meal on a plate?
2 questions
[Chalky] No, but the answers you probably want are - No and Yes
[INJ] ah yes - was meaning: 'meal on a plate' as opposed to 'lolly on a stick' type of thing. But as you have vair kindly given me a precise answer ....
Would this be considered British food?
[Chalky] Yes
That's it until tomorrow morning now
Fish and chips?
Is the animal part meat?
Haggis?
is this an accompaniment to a meal?
[RS] No
[Raak] No
[Iroul] No
[Chalky] No
Is cheese involved?
Is it savoury [as opposed to sweet]?
[Chalky] No (small ripple from the audience)
Meetings until lunchtime now.
Cheesecake?
Is cheese involved?
I know I asked before, but you didn't answer
Jaffa cakes?
Pastry?
ice-cream?
Buttered toast?
Is the animal part eggs?
Cookies and milk?
Back online
[Raak] cheesecake - NO
[GL] cheese - NO (sorry)
[Iroul] Jaffas - NO
[Chalky]Pastry - NO
[GL] Ice cream - NO
[irach] toast - NO
[RS] animal part eggs - YES (Partly)
[irach] Cookies & Milk - NO
Some kind of cake?
An omelette?
Yorkshire pudding?
French Toast?
Is is a McDonalds Egg McMuffin?
pancake?
[Chalky] cake - NO (applause at the question and a bit of tutting and shaking of heads at the answer)
[Raak] omelette - NO
[Iroul] Yorkshire pud - NO
[GL] French Toast - NO
[Kim] Egg McMuffin - NO
[Chalky] Pancake - NO
Is the vegetable part a fruit?
Is a cow in any way involved with its origins?
[irach] a fruit? - Mostly NO
[RS] Is a cow involved? - YES
.The audience sits in stony silence through those questions and answers
Is it a well-loved traditional British pudding?
Custard?
Spam, sausage, spam, spam, bacon, spam, tomato and spam?
[Chalky] - YES (applause)
[all] custard? - Each to his own taste, but for me the answer is NO
Oh, you meant, 'is it custard?' - NO.
[Néa] - NO (I think most people would regard that as a touch savoury - unless you ignore the Spam, Sausage, Bacon and Spam)
Pineapple upside-down pudding?
Spotted Dick?
[Raak] - NO
[Chalky] - NO (avoiding all the obvious comments)
Is it bread and butter pudding?
Can't be long now
[all] - NO
Jam roly-poly?
Yorkshire Pudding?
Is it typically eaten at Christmas?
Rice Pudding?
[Raak] Jam roly-poly? - NO (but on the right lines)
[irach] still NO
[Néa] xmas - NO
[Chalky] Rice Pud? - NO
How many words "on the card"?
I think this is a legitimate question, traditionally.
[Rosie] - it depends which version of the game you're thinking of, but I'm happy to answer. 3 (though there is a two-word answer which I might consider close enough).
Caramel pudding?
Dumplings?
lemon meringue pie?
[irach] Caramel pudding? - NO but sooooo close
[Raak] - NO
Sticky Toffee Pudding
(not sure if that is any different from caramel pudding, mind you...)
Death By Chocolate?
Sussex Pond Pudding?
Sorry for the previous guess, didnt see it had 3 words.
And the winner is
[CdM] - YES - Sticky Toffee Pudding it is
I did have a little debate with myself over caramel pudding - I'd already decided to accept syrup/treacle sponge. I just wasn't quite sure what was meant by it exactly (for example is 'Crème Caramel' a caramel pudding. So, butter, eggs & milk for the animal and the fruit was because traditionally, it should be made with date sponge. So it's over to CdM.
[Dazed5] I wish I'd thought of that - I would have used it if I had.
All right -- I think this should be an easy one, actually.
ABSTRACT
anarcho-syndicalism?
Can I buy a vowel please?
anarcho-syndicalism? Oooh, very close, in the sense that "anarcho-syndicalism" contains all but one of the letters in both acceptable versions of the actual answer.
Monday morning? (or mornings?)
Is it a book?
Mondays? No.
Book? No.
Is the missing letter in "anarcho-syndicalism" an 'e'?
e-missing? No. And to clarify: it is a different letter that is missing for each of the acceptable answers. But in neither case is the missing letter an "e" (and in only one of the two cases is the missing letter a vowel).
Is the missing letter a "y"? As in anarchy?
Is it, in the broadest sense, a philosophy?
Is it a human concept?
missing y? No, in neither case.
philosoph_? No.
human concept? yes.
Is it a munificent human concept? Or the contrary?
Munificent or the contrary? Er. I think I would say No and No.
Is it a work of art?
Work of art? No.
Does it primarily or largely appear in a book?
Primarily or largely appear in a book? *considerable applause from audience* No.
Is it popular?
Is it to do with books or reading?
Is there a religious connection?
Is a book part of it?
Would Socrates have found use for it?
Is it fiction?
Popular? Somewhat, depending on what you mean by "popular".
Books or reading? It need not have anything to do with books or reading, but having said that, there is a definite connection.
Religious? No.
Book part of it? No, although there is a connection to some books.
Socrates? No.
Fiction? No.
A cataloguing scheme?
Cataloguing scheme? No.
Is it anything to do with colour?
Is it a general human concept, or specific to a particular culture or cultures?
Is there only one / one manifestation of this?
Colour? No.
General human concept? *applause from the audience* It is a specific cultural example of a general human concept.
One / one manifestation? Yes. (See above: the answer is one specific manifestation of something more general.)
Is it generally considered a positive attribute?
Is it generally considered a negative attribute?
Anything to do with, ahem, desire?
Is it a thing called Love?
Anything to do with religion?
Positive? It is not an attribute. People would probably view it neutrally. Some people might view it positively (I know some people in the Morniverse do.) I see no reason why it would be viewed negatively in general.
Negative? See above.
Desire? No.
Love? No.
Religion? Still no.
Scansion?
Philology?
Is, it: Punctuation?
Rhythm?
Language?
Scansion: No.
Philology: *some applause from the audience* No.
Punctuation: *tiny smattering of applause* No.
Rhythm: No.
Language? *applause from audience* No.
Is it a particular language?
Particular language: *major applause from audience* Yes!
Finnish / Suomi?
(though isn't the language actually Suomen?)
The Queen's English?
Chinese/Mandarin?
European?
Do (does?) more than a tiny minority of the Morniverse understand it?
Is it a computer language?
html?
Is it the language of luuuurve?
Japanese?
Kyllä!
Finnish? YES! *throws baton at Néa* I never quite worked out all those Finnish cases, but I think "suomen" is the indirect passive fifth person ablative.
[CdM]I think you left out non-neuter
ooooooh
Wow, this is quite a responsibility. *catches baton deftly and drops it on her foot*

[CdM] I believe you'll find that all those cases is a reason that some people do, in fact, view it negatively :-) (I don't!)

ABSTRACT
Anarcho-syndicalism?
It's got to be right some day.
This is not that day
[INJ] No. Some people would probably say that there is a connection, but that's not a very helpful clue.
The long dark night of the soul?
Summer?
Sarcastic anachronisms? (Why not?)
Political?
[Raak] No. *a few people in the audience clap, though*
[Iroulé] No.
[RS] No. (Cos it isn't.)
[Rosie] No.
A Finnish winter?
[Raak] No.
FYI
My Internet access will be patchy the next few days, but I should be able to log in at least once or twice a day.
Does darkness have something to do with it?
Hmmmmmm
[Raak] I would say that darkness is implied but not necessary.
Does it have anything to do with the weather?
The long dark teatime of the soul?
Hello Néa :-) Is this an emotion?
Does the connection between the answer and anarcho-syndicalism have anything to do with Spain?
[Irouléguy] No.
[all] Hmmm. No.
[Chalky] Hello. No. (*applause*)
[Irouléguy] No.
gothdom?
Is it a state of mind?
Is it anything physical?
Is it a human construct?
[Raak] No.
[Chalky] No. *some applause*
[Rosie] Yes but no but yes but no.
[INJ] It is not a construct.
Gloom? Despair? Dyspepsia?
Fannishness?
No, no, no and no. You are not really on the right track at the moment.
Is it some sort of game?
Hoping the points have been set right.
Sleep?
[Rosie] Not a game.
[Raak] No, but now you are most definitely on the right track. *audience claps and cheers*
A dream?
I think he's getting it...
Yes, but that's not specific enough.
A nightmare?
A dream of a better world?
A Midsummer Night's Dream?
Boo!
[Rosie] YES! *hands over baton with a flourish*
ABSTRACT, with MINERAL CONNECTIONS
Should have added ANIMAL CONNECTIONS also.
Anything to do with Harry Potter?
Raak - Absolutely nothing. :-)
Are the animal connections human?
Irouléguy - Yes
Anything to do with King Arthur?
Raak - No, not a thing.
Is the mineral connection metal?
Is the human connection to a non-fictional human
(ImNotJohn) - Both yes.
Camilla's new coat of arms?
Is it a human construct?
(That was original, wasn't it?)
Raak - No.
CdM - Yes. It has to be asked, and you are a couple of inches nearer the Holy Grail. :-)
The Sword of Truth and the Shield of British Fair Play?
Is the non-fictional human alive?
Raak - No
Irouléguy - No
Is the mineral connection a weapon?
Is the mineral connection a precious metal?
[CdM] Wot you doin' aksin my question?
The Holy Grail?
Raak - No, but it can be used as one.
ImNotJohn - No.
all - No.
Lord Byron's bicycle?
Raak - No, but the format of your answer is getting warm.
X's Y for some animate X and inanimate Y?
Davy Jones' Locker?
Pandora's Box?
Midas' Golden Touch?
Raak - That's right
Dazed5 - No
irach - No
RedSnapper - No

Don't forget the meaning is essentially Abstract.

Any political connection?
Dazed5 - No
Newton's three laws of motion?
Is there a musical connection?
Irouléguy - No

Dazed5 - No (Surprised that hasn't been asked earlier).

Is transport involved?
determined to narrow it down
Foucault's pendulum?
Dazed5 - No.
Raak - No. Don't forget the answer has an essentially abstract meaning.
Although the answer could be classed as a little arcane or academic it should be known here, and has 172,000 Google hits worldwide.
[Rosie] So does F's P, a certain novel...
The King's shilling?
Raak - No (Yeah, it means bugger all really. :-) )
Is there a scientific connection?
Is there a religious connection?
Irouléguy - Yes, this could be used in science.
Dazed5 - No.
Did the person live before the 20th century?
Was the person male?
Raak - Yes.
Dazed5 - Yes.
Was he English?
Raak - He was.
So, although this was a real person and a real metal thingy [that could be used as a weapon, or in science] essentially this is an abstract notion? Is it a 2-word answer?
Was the person involved a 19th century Englishman, or did he live (and die) prior to that?
Was the 'weapon' a pen?
Morton's Fork?
Chalky - Yes and yes. The whole thing could be used in science, among other things. The metal thing is part of the abstract idea but as an actual object could be used as a weapon.
irach - Died before 1800.
Dazed5 - No, but some appreciative murmurs from the audience.
ImNotJohn - No.
Chalky - (PS) See my answer to Raak's Lord Byron's bicycle query.
Anything to do with Newton?
Is there a literary connection?
Is the metal thing a hammer?
irach - No. Pre-dates Newton.
Dazed5 - No.
Raak - No.
Predates Stonehenge?
irach - No, not by a long chalk.
Anything to do with Freemasonry?
Any connection to medicine?
Occam's Razor?
Funny you should ask that [Raak] because Occam's Razor attracts exactly 172,000 Google hits worldwide. I reckon you've got it. I've never heard of it mesself :-)
Raak - YES! Well done. A rather obscure one which I thought might just get by, particularly in a place like this. It's meaning is this: If someone says those lights in the sky are UFOs then the application of Occam's Razor makes one ask "couldn't they be aeroplanes, or unusual reflections in the glass, or were you just a bit pissed?", i.e always think of the simple explanation first. Do not elaborate unnecessarily, etc. etc.

Carry on, Raak

VEGETABLE, with ANIMAL and ABSTRACT connections.
Is it edible (or drinkable?)
Is it a constructed object?
Could this be held in your hand?
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