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AVMA Take 2
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Yes, it's another round of that classic guessing game - Animal, Vegetable, Mineral, Abstract [or any combination thereof]. This effort - '03/'04 should address any queries, but then again, may just serve to confuse and baffle which some might say is the point of the game. Patience, integrity and a decent search engine may be useful ....
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holy grail? no
single work of fiction? It is strongly associated with a single work of fiction, although it might exist in others that I am unaware of.
The Da Vinci Code?
da vinci code? no. (you are up late, Chalky...)
Is it associated with religion?
Is it associated with magic?
[CdM] Yes, I am rather - have been painting and I tend to forget the time. Best be off now :-)
associated with religion? No.
associated with magic? No.
I forgot to mention that the audience applauded Irouléguy's question.
Is it the Title of a work of fiction?
title of a work of fiction? no.
Was the work written before 1970?
Shelley's 'Ode to the West wind'?
written before 1970? no.
ode to west wind? no.
Is it part of a larger work like an aria?
The magic flute?
Is the specific work of fiction a book?
OK so, to sum up.
We have an abstract something that is associated with, but is not the title of, a single work of fiction written since 1970. It is not associated with magic or religion. It does not necessarily have any actual existence, but if it did it would not be restricted to a single location, nor does it necessarily involve any participation by a person. It is neither a decision nor an event. It is neither positive or negative, nor is it a colour. In addition there are a number of specific things it isn't.
So, it seems to be some sort of concept or idea.
Was the work published before 2000?
part of a larger work like an aria? It is part of the work of fiction, but not really like an aria.
magic flute? no.
specific work of fiction a book? among other things, yes.
published before 2000? yes.
[INJ] I think your summary is accurate. I go back and forth a bit still on whether it is an event: I suppose it could be an event, although I still feel that no is the best answer to the question.
Is the book science fiction?
Any connection with Douglas Adams?
Any connection to television?
science fiction? yes.
Douglas Adams? yes *applause*
television? no.
The meaning of life, the universe and everything?
42? No. (but that would have been a good subject to have chosen, now you come to mention it)
The 'someone else's problem' field?
SEP? No. This kind of guessing could go on for a long time. :-)
I know it's unlikely, but - the improbability drive?
improbability drive? An extremely plausible answer, and therefore wrong. Although it wouldn't surprise me if operation of the ID were to lead to it.
A pain in all the diodes down Marvin's left side?
Interesting - the 'no' to television, from which I am tempted to assume that it did not appear/occur in the television series.
The shoe event horizon?
Did it appear only in the first series?
pain in diodes? no.
[I believe I am correct in saying that it did not appear in the TV series, although I don't really remember the TV version very well]
shoe event horizon? no.
only in first series? no.
Was it seen by Arthur or was it an entry from "the Guide"?
seen by arthur/entry from guide? It was not seen by Arthur as such, although it had consequences for him (and he saw several of those consequences). As far as I recall the guide didn't say anything about it, although my memory may be letting me down there.
Does it involve hyperspace?
involve hyperspace? I suppose it very well might.
A brain the size of a planet?
planet-sized brain? No.
A bowl of petunias?
The total perspective vortex?
petunias? No. [Raak] Reminder: it is abstract. Reminder no 2: not in the TV series.
TPV? No.
Did it happen on a spaceship rather than a planet?
spaceship rather than planet? It is hard to say where it happened. It is not even clear that is a meaningful question. However, in the radio series and book, it had implications on a planet and -- if I recall correctly -- on a spaceship as well.
The artistic necessity that holds a gigantic paper cup made of marble suspended in midair?
The birth of Zaphod Beeblebrox
(Which allegedly caused comets to streak across the sky and civilisations to rise and fall)
artistic necessity? no.
birth of ZB? no.
Did I mention that this could go on for a very long time with this kind of guessing? :-)
Is it a characteristic (or quality of something, as opposed to a thing)?
sorry, I didn't word that too well, but anyway...
Were any of the main characters involved?
My question may seem meaningless to someone who knows the answer and when it is finally I will probably think "what a duff question That was!". Have no fear, I shall ask you no more of this type of question.
characteristic of something? No, not really?
main characters involved? two main characters were very significantly affected.
Does this appear/occur in the first book?
Inkspot] No - it produced a definite answer, which makes it a very good question for this round.
first book? No. (*some applause*) [Clarification: to be honest, it is many years since I read the books, and I always knew the radio series better anyway. It definitely did not appear in the first radio series, and I am pretty certain that it therefore did not appear in the first book.]
The act of falling on the floor and missing?
how to fly? no.
Bistromathics?
bistromath? no.
The Golgafrinchan exodus?
Most of the way through The restaurant at the end of the universe, and no nearer the answer, but re-confirmed in the view that the radio series was better than the books.
Golgafrinchan exodus? no. I need to start thinking of some clues...
Day 9
[CdM] hmm - doubt if any clues will help me, not being over-familiar with Adams's work. But please slap a couple of mighty ones in. Then someone can guess this soon. Very soon.
eeeeek
[Chalky] Day 9? Really?? In some ways I think that the focus on Douglas Adams may not be the best way to go. And if you have hung around the morniverse, you will also have seen many references to it.
teleportation?
*suddenly wonders if that's a word or not* I think I need a language transplant.
teleportation? no.
The problem that no-one who wants to be President can be trusted with the job?
Anything to do with sport?
George Bush? no.
krikkit? no.
Procrastination?
More seriously - is it something to do with the destruction of the earth?
procrastination? I'll tell you tomorrow.
destruction of earth? No.
Is it an abstract concept for the book's characters?
Does it have visible/tangible effects
(OK, I know that's two questions in one)
Although we associate it with HHGTTG, could it actually occur/exist in real life?
abstract for book's characters? Yes. (Good question)
visible/tangible effects? Yes. Though, in the context of the book/series, more easily visible than tangible.
exist in real life? I answered that somewhat cryptically earlier on. As far as I know, the concept is entirely fictional. But then I'm not a physicist, so I could be wrong. Or the physicists could be wrong. And while I think all of us here associate it with HHGTTG, something similar almost certainly existed in prior works of fiction, and I think it now has acquired something of a life of its own, in that I suspect people refer to it without knowing about HHGTTG. I could be wrong about that too, though.
The end of the universe?
milliways? No.
Are ghosts involved?
Anything to do with wormholes?
Are the two main characters very significantly affected Arthur and Ford?
ghosts? No.
wormholes? No, or at least not exactly, or perhaps yes. *applause from audience*
Arthur and Ford affected? Yes. *more applause*
Can't think of the name of the damm effect, but is it how Arthur and Ford got from Magrathea to the Golgafrinchan exodus?
extensive time travel in both directions interrupted by a good meal? No.
Hmmmm
Another clue, perhaps...?
Nonono. The way I look at it, you should all keep guessing, and at sometime in the way distant future someone will get the correct answer, and then it will show up here tomorrow.
eddies in the space time continuum?
                            -
is he...?
eddy's? YES! Well, strictly speaking, only one eddy, but I am certainly not going to drag this out any longer.
*exhaustedly hands the baton to flerdle*
eek!
ok, quick and dirty... M I N E R A L
Is it a specific object?
[Darren] Yes?
[flerdle] Was that a question, or Australian intonation?
you've been watching too much Neighbours...
heh heh :-)
Darren's question was somewhat ambiguous, hence my uncertainty.
Are there many of these?
[Rosie] Yes.
Are they largely metallic objects?
woohoo
[Rosie] Yes!
Is it a Brass Monkey?
Is it mass produced or manufactured?
Are they machines of some sort?
[Gusset Login] Brass Monkey? No.
[Inkspot] mass produced/manufactured? Yes.
[Raak] machines of some sort? No.
Are they tools?
Do they nedd electrcal power to be used?
An item of cutlery?
[Raak] Hmmm. Yes, I think.
[Inkspot] nedd electrical power? No.
[Rosie] item of cutlery? No.
Shovels?
Are they used with one hand?
[Irouleguy] Shovels? no.
[Raak] used with one hand? Hmmmm. Yes.
Are they used together with other tools?
[Nea] Used together with other tools? No. That is, one of these can do its job by itself.
Do they have any connection to IKEA?
heh
[CdM] No. Sorry. But good guess :-)
Pliers?
Just so this doesn't last forever, I don't think that working your way through the contents of your toolbox is the way to go here...
[Irouleguy] Pliers? No.
Are they flexible or pliant?
Are they normally found in the home rather than a workplace?
[gabrielized] flexible/pliant? Somewhat.
[Inkspot] found in home rather than workplace? No, i.e. found in both, depending on home and workplace.
Paper Clips?
Drawing pins?
[gabrielized] Just a quick btw: it makes it easier when we're putting summaries together if you put the questions in "Apropos," because it makes them obviously different from comments (like this one).
Anything to do with gardening?
[gabrielized] Paper clips? YES. Well done. Over to you.
  • WOW i got it? A N I M A L
    • Human?
    A particular instance of an animal/human?
    Dead?
    Furry?
    Does it have legs?
    Are you still there?
    Is it a fish?
    Fictional?
    # Rosie - Human? Yes # Darren - A particular instance of an animal/human? Yes # Tuj - Dead? Not exactly # irach - Furry? Not particularly # Kim - Does it have legs? Yes # Rosie - Are you still there?yes, sorry, this is a weighty responsibility! sorry! # Gusset Login - Is it a fish? No # Raak - Fictional? In a way, yes.
    (new at this and not doing well with the formatting...) A Hint - it is mentioned in a popular novel.
    Is this a character loosely based on a real person?
    Male?
    [Dujon - Is this a character loosely based on a real person?] Not a character but yes, based on reality. [Rosie - Male?] Yes.
    Is the novel more than 50 years old?
    [Rosie - Is the novel more than 50 years old?] No.
    Anything to do with the Harry Potter stories
    [Rosie - Anything to do with the Harry Potter stories] No.
    Not something from Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, then?
    Is this a real person who makes an appearance in a work of fiction?
    No, not HGTTG.
    [CdM - Is this a real person who makes an appearance in a work of fiction?] This is a representation of a man that makes an appearance in a work of fiction; and figures prominently in that work of fiction.
    A physical representation, like a portrait or a statue?
    Raak! YES........................which one?
    Is the person represented alive?
    tough question. I suppose not, in a way, yes. Sorry, that's a matter of interpretation. The exact person dead, but could probably find others like that one now alive.
    Is there just one of the physical representation?
    Is the person the holder of some official position?
    Any religious connotations?
    Raak - there is just one original of this representation. Rosie - No indication that the person is the holder of any official position. Darren - There are no religious connotations to the person or the representation - apparently.
    Is this best known as a painting?
    Is it some sort of "modern art"?
    Is the person anonymous?
    It is a painting or more likely, a pencil drawing by someone very famous for art. Not modern art at all. The person, the subject of the sketch, is rather anonymous.
    Is the novel in question the Da Vinci Code?
    Da Vinci's Vitruvian Man?
    Yes, in DaVinci Code, the Vitruvian MAN!!! YOU WIN!!
    (ImNotJohn) Are you there?
    Is it the ordnance survey symbol for a cairn?
    Is it the ordinance survey symbol for CdM?
    That's "ordnance" of course. Even having the word right in front of me didn't stop me misspelling it.
    If ImNotJohn doesn't materialise perhaps Néa should start one. She got closest.
    Sorry
    Had to take a little bit of time off to work.
    This one is MINERAL

    CdM - Y....No.
    Darren - No

    Is it man-made?
    Is the Eiffel Tower?
    Is it a specific object?
    It just occurred to me that CdM might have an unfair advantage here.
    [GL] - No is the answer that helps most
    [all] - No
    [Darren] - Yes
    (Or alternatively CdM might have an unfair disadvantage.)
    Is it on the Earth?
    [Raak] Yes
    The white cliffs of Dover?
    Is it bigger than a house?
    Mount Rushmore?
    Basically watery?
    Cold
    [all] - No
    [Raak] - No
    [GL] - No
    [Rosie] - No
    In Europe?
    Is it usually found inside a building?
    Is it a notable precious stone?
    Does it belong to someone well-known?
    How did you do that?
    [Néa] - Yes
    [Kim] - Yes
    [Raak] - Yes (startled pause followed by prolonged applause)
    [Tuj] - Yes
    The Crown Jewels?
    The Hope Diamond?
    (er, except that fails the Europe test. And possibly the belonging to someone well-known test...)
    [Rosie] - No, but Yes, but No, but Yes, but NO
    [CdM] - No
    The Koh i Noor?
    (trying to decide if that's a really stupid question or not, and leaning towards "yes", so asking it anyway)
    The Star of Africa?
    Well that wasn't that hard, was it?
    [Néa] - No
    [all] - YES
    Cullinan 1 or 'The Star of Africa' (if you'd been struggling I would probably have accepted 'The Cullinan Diamond', but thanks to Raak's astounding intuitive leap it all went rather quickly)
    So, over to all
    drawing a line under it
    That was unexpected
    um...

    MINERAL

    Is it man-made?
    Is there just one of it?
    Is it on earth?
    Is it a notable precious stone?
    [ImNotJohn] - Yes
    [Raak] - Yes
    [CdM] - Yes
    [Néa] - Nope
    An engineering structure?
    [Rosie] - I'll say, Yes, pending a clarification of the term "engineering structure"
    Is it a building?
    Is it bigger than a phone box?
    Is it made entirely of metal?
    Is it a sculpture?
    Does it carry a means of transport?
    Does it have a practical use?
    Is it in Britain?
    The Angel of the North?
    [CdM] - No
    [Raak] - Yes (Audience, titters)
    [Tuj] - No
    [Dazed5] No
    [Rosie] - Yes (applause)
    [Darren] - Yes
    [Inkspot] - Yes
    [ImNotJohn] No
    Is it either the London Underground in general, or Mornington Crescent in particular?
    Obvious, I know, but someone has to ask.
    The inside of the Tardis?
    Or rather, just the Tardis?
    [CdM] - (Much Applause) No and No.
    [Raak] - No
    [Raak] - No
    Is it the Northern Line?
    [CdM] - YES! Well done. Over to you
    And once again I sneak in on someone else's coattails, as it were. OK, this one is
    ABSTRACT
    Is it in a fictional work?
    Is it an emotion?
    In fictional work? No.
    Emotion? No.
    A religion?
    Religion? No.
    A human construct?
    Human construct? Yes.
    Is it a form of entertainment?
    Form of entertainment? smattering of applause. No, but it has a connection to a form of entertainment.
    Is it audible?
    Audible? No.
    Samantha?
    Samantha? No.
    Is it connected to something competitive?
    Connected to something competitive? Yes. The competitive aspect is perhaps not hugely important, though.
    Is it a game of Mornington Crescent?
    The Laser Display Board?
    A bifurcation?
    Points?
    Ignore my last effort, which is not even abstract were it to actually exist.
    Game of MC? No. substantial applause from audience
    Abstract Display Board? No. (actually, I would have thought the LDB was very definitely abstract)
    Bifurcation? 1. No. 2. Yes. Congratulations! You won on the second strand! Unfortunately you still need to get the answer on the original strand.
    Points? No.
    The rules of Mornington Crescent?
    Rules of MC? No.
    Is it a technical term in MC (such as knip)?
    Knip (or some such)? Kno. (The audience is now concerned that it applauded too hard after Botherer's question.)
    Is it game other than MC played in the Morniverse?
    Morniverse game other than MC? No. loud applause from audience
    Is it the Morniverse?
    ISIHAC?
    ISIHAC? No.
    Morniverse? No.
    Mornington Crescent?
    MC? No. (a rather confused response from the audience; a few people applauding enthusiastically but most remaining silent)
    Connected with a pastime or form of entertainment not in the Morniverse?
    (Three questions for the price of one!)
    Connected with Non-morniverse entertainment? Yes (but I doubt if that is particularly helpful).
    A Tim-Tam slam?
    Tim-tam slam? No. I'd keep focusing on the morniverse, if I were you.
    mc5?
    mc^5? No. (some applause)
    Orange?
    Orange? No. (stony silence from the audience)
    A winning move?
    A pilgrimage?
    A winning move? Yes, but that is not sufficient. (loud and sustained applause from audience)
    A pilgrimage? No.
    *The* winning move?
    A lurker's victory in a game of MC?
    The final move of the MC^5 long game?
    The winning move? No.
    Lurker's victory? No.
    End of the long game? No.
    hmmmmmm...
    actually, you might be very very close with *the* winning move, but I need a clarification...
    A cry of "Mornington Crescent"?
    The final move of a game of MC?
    The first move of a game of Reverse MC?
    No, no, and no ... you weren't quite as close as I thought you might be. :-)
    That's lucky, it's time someone else got a chance to set one.
    The winner?
    Do eeither of the words 'mornington' or 'crescent' appear in the answer?
    The winner? No.
    M or C? No.
    Is the answer the winning move of a game?
    Is the answer the winning move of a game? Yes. (ushers are moving among the audience to try to get them to be quiet, and the riot police are starting to look nervous)
    Baker Street?
    (cconnection to another form of entertainment - but then again it wasn't supposed to appear in a fictional work)
    Baker Street? No. (I said that the other form of entertainment might not be helpful. I simply meant that the form of entertainment in question exists outside the morniverse as well as inside it.)
    is it theMC5 Audience when it *shouts, screams and generally goes wild for someone*?
    Stora Mossen?
    I never met a winning move I didn't like
    MC5 audience? No.
    Stora Mossen? No.
    You're running out of time today, folks; it's gone 11pm here...
    Is the answer the name of a station?
    name of a station? No.
    Boardo!?
    sorry CdM - are we keeping you up? :-)
    Boardo? No. And no you are not -- I have been working up to now. But you are probably going to have to wait until tomorrow, now...
    The Last Line Of A Limerick?
    Checkmate?
    Limerick?
    Said Gertrude, that master of prose
    "A rose is a rose is a rose"
    There's wisdom, you see
    In tautology:
    An answer's an answer, I s'pose.

    Checkmate? No.
    The end of this game?
    Is it a punchline?
    [Raak] I think that is close enough!
    The answer to this round of AVMA is "the answer to this round of AVMA". Over to you
    After that rarefied flight of circular fancy, a very down to earth MINERAL.
    Is it man-made?
    Is it found on Earth?
    [GL] Yes.
    [all] Yes.
    Is it a building?
    [Néa] No.
    Are there many of these?
    Is it bigger than a bread box?
    [Rosie] No. (But there are more than one.)
    [all] Yes. (All of them are. Each of them is.)
    Does it move?
    [INJ] No. At least, they're not supposed to.
    Are it made of stone?
    Are they to be found in Britain?
    [all] Um...no.
    [GL] Yes.
    That's all for today, I'm off shortly to a concert at the Aldeburgh Festival.
    Were they all made after 1900?
    I hope you enjoyed your evening the programme, not that I am in the least bit jealous.
    Are these objects identical, more or less?
    Would these consist of a soft, earthy substance, of a white, grayish, or yellowish white color, consisting of calcium carbonate, and having the same composition as common limestone?
    [Inkspot] Yes. (The Orlando Consort, giving a concert of Baroque recreational depression -- Tallis, Purcell, Tomkins, etc. There was a BBC OB van there, so it might get broadcast at some point, but of course, that's nothing like being there.)
    [Rosie] They're similar.
    [Dujon] Soft? No.
    Are they composed entirely of a single substance?
    [INJ] They are known for it!
    Is the substance liquid?
    [INJ] No.
    Does the name of the substance appear in the answer?
    [GL] Yes.
    Is the substance iron?
    Is it made to be decorative?
    Are they all in the same city or town?
    A brick outhouse?
    [GL] No.
    [Inkspot] Yes.
    [Darren] Yes.
    [INJ] No.
    The Crown Jewels?
    Concrete cows?
    [Rosie] No.
    [GL] YES! The Concrete Cows of Milton Keynes.
    (Gusset Login) Coo-oo!
    [Gusset Login) Coo-ee!
    Sorry, I was away for a few days
    I assumed I had it wrong. um...

    Vegetable

    A potato?
    [Raak] - No
    Is it edible?
    [Darren] - Yes, or part of it is
    Is it processed?
    Can you buy it in a typical U.K. supermarket?
    [Darren] - No.
    [Raak] - No
    Does it grow wild in the U.K.?
    [Raak] - Yes
    Is the edible part of it a fruit?
    Is it a nettle?
    Is it later processed into a product?
    Is it a magic mushroom?
    [Kim] - No
    [CdM] - No
    [Rosie] - Yes
    [rab] - No.
    Is it rhubarb?
    Is it nicer with custard?
    Is it a type of grain?
    Is the edible bit green?
    Dandelion and Burdoch?
    Is it a mustard seed?
    [Darren] - No
    [Irouléguy] - No
    [Raak] - No
    [Tuj] - The websites I've checked are undecided about the green bit being edible.
    [Dujon] - No
    [CdM] - No
    Hops?
    Would you (well, not necessarily you personally) ever eat the edible bit in its unprocessed form?
    [Chalky] - No
    [CdM] - Yes
    It might be worth clarifying that most products produced from it are not intended to be edible
    Are those products flowers?
    Oil See Rape?
    or perhaps Linseed?
    [Irouléguy] - No
    [Chalky] - No (nor Oilseed Rape)
    [Chalky] - No
    Are the products produced from it mostly liquid?
    Is it a tree?
    [Darren] - No
    [Rosie] - Yes
    Is the edible part a nut?
    [Darren] - No
    Is the product produced from it decorative?
    Is the non-edible product timber?
    [Darren] - That depends, can you think of any decorative uses for wood?
    [Raak] - Yes
    Is the answer a particular tree (such as a maple tree, for example)?
    Are we looking for the final product?
    [CdM] - Yes
    [Darren] - No, it's a tree
    So we are looking for a tree that grows wild in Britain and which has an edible part that is not a leaf or a fruit or a nut or a blossom...
    A pine tree?
    Licorice?
    If I'm right, someone else needs to carry the torch...
    The mighty oak?
    My "other" computer is an Acorn but I've never eaten one.
    Is the edible bit a vegetable?
    [CdM] - Good summary, But you forgot to mention that the edible part can be eaten raw and it is mainly used for non-edible products.

    [Raak] - No
    [Botherer] - No
    [Rosie] - No
    [Irouléguy] - No, the whole thing is a tree.

    Willow
    The bark is edible in small quantities but is mostly used for medicinal ones
    [ImNotJohn] - No, but you're thinking along the right lines
    Is the edible part the sap?
    Alder?
    [Raak] - Yes, but also the bark.
    [Inkspot] - No
    Is it from the salicaceae family of trees?
    [Inkspot] - No
    Family Fagaceae?
    Jesuit's bark aka cinchona?
    [Darren] - No
    [Irouléguy] - I've never heard quinine bark called that before... No

    Would a clue be useful at this point?

    WE will ask the questions, Mr Login. Er, yes please. :-)
    Very well.

    It's a conifer and easy to recognise from a distance.

    The Larch?
    [Darren] - YES! Well done, it would have been easier if no one had asked about it being edible, which it is, apparently.
    Ah, but it's the unexpected questions that can produce misleading answers which are so much fun!

    So, this one is primarily VEGETABLE but I wouldn't be surprised if MINERAL or indeed ANIMAL could be involved in some cases.

    Stovold's Mornington Crescent Almanac 2002 ?
    Is the vegetable still alive?
    [Chalky] I can see your reasoning, but no.
    [Gusset Login] No.
    Is it man-made?
    Austrian wine?
    GL] I know the name from the Patrick O'Brian 'Master and commander' books.
    [ImNotJohn] Yes.
    [Irouléguy] Not typically, but some of them may well be.
    [Irouléguy] Whoops, I thought you said "Austrian made?". It's not Austrian wine.
    Is it monochromatic or multi-coloured?
    [irach] Normally multi-coloured.
    Is it largely wooden?
    [Rosie] Sometimes it can be.
    A set of children's building blocks?
    [Raak] No.
    A work of art?
    Are you using, eating or viewing one now?
    Does one normally use it at home?
    Is it a book?
    [Rosie] Could be, I suppose, but not normally.
    [irach] (1) No, no and no. (2) Yes.
    [Irouléguy] No.
    Can it be read?
    [Raak] No.
    A chopping board?
    [all] No.
    Is it an item of furniture?
    A cupboard of some kind?
    [Raak] No.
    [Rosie] No.
    Is it generally found in the kitchen? In the living room? In the bedroom?
    [irach] (1) No. (2) I suppose if anywhere, you might find it there. (3) No. Well... depends on whose bedroom, I suppose!
    Were you being sneakily literal in your earlier response to the question "is it man-made?"?
    *slinks off to hide in the corner*
    Eeeek... I didn't mean to post that question; it was prompted by a stupid misreading on my part. Sorry. Please carry on.
    [CdM] It's not the product of a bodily function, if that's what you mean. It's a manufactured product.
    Can one curl up on or in it if one is larger than an average-sized domestic cat?
    Does it generally have a glass component to it, in addition to sometimes being wooden?
    Is it elongated, and sometimes made of metal?
    A coaster?
    Is it a bookshelf?
    [irach] (1) No.
    [RedSnapper] No.
    [irach] (2) Yes (elongated), but as far as I know, no (not metal).
    [Raak] No.
    [all] No.
    In its normal use or state of being, is it found above eye-level when one (of usual adult height of say, five to seven feet) is standing and looking straight ahead in its direction ?
    [irach] No.
    Is it an implement of some kind?
    [Rosie] Not really.
    Would most players of this game be likely to have one in their homes?
    [Darren] er, no, I didn't mean that at all. I simply had misread, and thought you had said it was not man-made. Then I realized my mistake, but posted instead of editing my question. In other words I was confused, which is a not unusual state-of-being for me.
    [CdM] I would say no. As for your other unquestion, well, just look on it as getting an extra answer for free.
    Is it smaller than a breadbin?
    [Raak] Yes.
    Is it connected with a hobby or interest?
    Summary (is it just me, or are we having these more often?)

    It is: man-made (as in constructed by humans); possibly, but not typically, Austrian; multi-coloured; possibly wooden; possibly, but not normally, a work of art; used at home, most likely in the living-room; elongated; smaller than a bread-bin; normally found below the eye-line of the average-height person.

    It is (or was) not: Austrian wine; a set of children's building blocks; being used, eaten or viewed by Darren at 09.38 BST on Friday; a book; readable; a chopping-board; furniture; a cupboard; generally found in the kitchen or the bedroom; something you can curl up on or in (if larger than a cat); containing glass or metal; a coaster; a bookshelf; really an implement; something that most players of this game would have in their houses.

    Who was it who said 'knowledge is power'?

    Is it culturally specific?
    [Rosie] Almost anything could be!
    [Irouléguy] Hmmm... its name would suggest so.
    [Irouléguy] So as not to be too misleading, though, it's not something I'd say is culturally specific.
    bric-a-brac?
    [Raak] No.
    A walking-stick?
    [Rosie] No.
    A ouija board?
    [Raak] No.
    Is the vegetable part solely wood?
    A pencil-case?
    [Irouléguy] As I implied above, no. There doesn't have to be any wood involved, although there sometimes is.
    [Raak] No.
    If no wood, then necessarily plastic?
    a ruler?
    [Rosie] Not necessarily.
    [all] No.
    Is the vegetable part some form of dried grass (straw, hay, etc)?
    A window box?
    [Irouléguy] The funny thing is, it can be, but that's such an incredibly misleading answer!
    [Raak] No.

    Does anyone want a clue?

    (Darren) Yes please. Most of the answers seem to be a Pythonesque "could be". I detect widespread bafflement, of which I'm part. :-)
    "Could be" is partly because I'm a vague person, and partly because I don't like leading people up too many dark alleys. Anyway, a clue: it's a kind of puzzle.
    Is it generally placed on the floor, or is it in fact part of the floor?
    Can one place umbrellas in it? As part of its normal usage, that is?
    [irach] No and no.
    [RedSnapper] No.
    puzzled
    Does this have any physical manifestation at all? Or is it purely conceptual?
    confused
    (Ansering my own questions) we're looking for the physical object. Is it essential to the game or puzzle? That is, can one play without the thing?
    Dominoes?
    [Effable] No, one cannot do this puzzle without the thing.
    [Gusset Login] No.
    Can it be turned off, or easily hidden away when house guests arrive?
    Would you allow house guests to use yours? Even if they were only casual acquaintances ?
    [irach] Turned off? No. Hidden away? Yes.
    [RedSnapper] House guests? Yes. Casual acquaintances? Yes.
    Is it typically held in one's hand when in use?
    A Rubik Cube?
    [irach] Yes... and yet no.
    [Rosie] No.
    A "Fifteen" puzzle?
    Is the 'puzzle' a word game?
    Su doku?
    I hope I'm wrong.
    pick-a-stix [that game with long pointy things]
    [Rosie] No.
    [Dujon] No.
    [all] No.
    [Chalky] No.
    irach's question about holding it is a potentially rewarding line of enquiry.
    Scoubi-dou? (spelling?)
    A Magic Wand?
    One of those stick-like things that will spin one way but not the other?
    Spinning plates?
    Is it some form of writing implement?
    Playing cards?
    [Irouléguy] No.
    [ImNotJohn] No.
    [Raak] No.
    [Kim] No.
    [irach] No.
    [all] No.
    A computer mouse?
    A crossword puzzle?
    paddle ball?
    [irach] No.
    [Rosie] No.
    [all] No.
    Could you take it on a camping trip with you without having to lug an electrical generator? Can you leave home without it?
    Is the vegetable part of it part of its name?
    [irach] (1) Yes. (2) Yes.
    [Irouléguy] No.
    Is it used in a recreation involving more than one person?
    pooh-sticks?
    Was this puzzle around in 1950?
    Jigsaw puzzle?
    [Raak] As far as I know, no.
    [Chalky] No.
    [Rosie] Yes.
    [irach] No.
    Solitaire?
    A piece of juggling apparatus?
    [Rosie] No.
    [Raak] No, unless you were a very unusual juggler.

    Another clue, anyone?

    (Darren) Go on.
    Is it normal to have more than one?
    Does the puzzle/game involve trying to catch something?
    Is it rectangular with specific places where one's fingers go?
    [all] (1) Neither normal nor abnormal. (2) No.
    [RedSnapper] Rectangular? Depends which way you look at it. Specific places for fingers? Yes.
    It is hollow?
    [Raak] Yes.
    Does it have moving parts?
    Does it have keys or buttons to place one's fingers on?
    Does it rhyme with "cord"?
    [Effable] No. It's got flexible parts though.
    [irach] (1) No. (2) No.
    Is is a folded paper puzzle?
    [Dazed5] No.
    Does the puzzle involve getting things into or out of this thing?
    Are you going to give us the clue Rosie asked for?
    Are building blocks involved in any way?
    Is it for children as well as adults?
    Can you easily bend it? (assuming you have average, and not Herculean strength)
    [Raak] Yes.
    [all] I was going to but you seem to be getting pretty close now.
    [Irouléguy] No.
    [Chalky] Yes.
    [irach] Yes.
    Cat's Cradle?
    A Chinese finger-trap?
    [Rosie] No.
    [Raak] YES! Well done!

    So, it goes over to Raak for the next round.

    A finger-trap made of wood?

    The next one is MINERAL

    [Raak] Yep, they can be made of wood.
    Is it metallic?
    is it solid?
    Is it larger than a teacup? (An average one, not the spinning kind in Disneyland)
    Is it man-made?
    Is it a geological feature?
    Is it on this planet?
    Metallic? Yes.
    Solid? Yes.
    Larger than teacup? Yes.
    Man-made? Yes.
    Geological? No.
    On Earth? Yes.
    Is there only one of this?
    [finger-trap] After googling and finding a picture I can now state certainly that I have never seen nor heard of it - is it me, or generational, or geographical?
    [INJ] More than one.
    [INJ] (fingertraps) I saw them as a child in Edinburgh, erm, later middle C20.
    Do they come in different sizes?
    Is this used in the home?
    Chinese Finger Trap - I've never heard of this either. T'was rather an anticlimax really :-(
    Different sizes: Yes.
    In the home: No.
    Do you typically see it when driving on the street?
    [IMJ, Chalky - Type www.ebay.com and put in "Chinese Finger trap" in the Search box. You'll see pictures of this infernal device]
    Could you lift it?
    A poll of 7 friends in The Greyhound, Carshalton revealed only one who had ever heard of Chinese Finger Traps. I think The Object should always be well known, so no characters from cult novels etc, or obscure asteroids. The game is difficult enough.
    Is it used in cooking?
    Is it / are they used in industry?
    Is it mobile?
    Is it a construction of multiple parts?
    [Darren et al] Sorry, didn't mean to complain - what is well-known to one person may be obscure to others. It did explain why we found it so difficult though.
    Typically see while driving: No.
    Lift it: Yes.
    Cooking: No.
    Industry: No.
    Mobile: Yes (but not under its own power).
    Construction of parts: Yes.
    Is it bigger than a breadbox?
    [Finger traps] I've heard of them, but didn't think they were made of wood. Normally it's straw or leather.
    Bigger than breadbox: Yes.
    Is it closer to being rectangular or circular when viewed head-on ?
    Er...no.
    Is one likely to encounter it/them in everyday life ?
    [fingertraps] They can be (and are) made of all sorts of things, which is why I had to be so vague about it. I would have thought everyone would have heard of them. The thing is, it's hard for one person to tell what everyone else has heard of without asking explicitly beforehand. Still, someone got it in the end which is what counts.
    [irach] Most people won't.
    Meteorites?
    Meteorites? No.
    Powered by electricity?
    No.
    A container of some sort?
    Yes. (amusement in the audience)
    Is it associated with substances not normally mentioned in polite company?
    No.
    (The audience's amusement was due to the fact that "a container" is so precisely accurate a description that only a child would spontaneously think of calling it one.)
    A chastity belt?
    A pair of handcuffs?
    No, and no.
    Are they normally found above ground?
    Yes.
    Does it have any moving parts?
    Let's see.. Metallic... Man made... On earth...Not used in cooking...Not used in industry...Made of multiple parts...Not typically seen when driving... Can be lifted...Not likely to be encountered by most people in everyday life...Not powered by elecctricity... Normally found above ground... Container of a sort (likely to induce chuckles)... Hmm .. sure sounds like a metallic bra by Jean-Paul Gaultier as worn by Madonna, but probably isn't.
    Moving parts? Yes.
    Metallic bra? No.
    Industrial use, in a broad sense?
    A waste paper bin?
    Industrial? No.
    Waste bin? No.
    Clue yet?
    Clue? Go on.
    Try and find out its size.
    OK - what size is it?
    only kidding. Is it smaller than the Malaysian Peninsula?
    Is it larger than the New Forest?
    Smaller than both.
    Is it larger than a thimble?
    The Tardis?
    *waves at CdM*
    Have just taken the trouble to read back and it seems that it's BIGGER than a breadbox but you can LIFT it - the plot thickens
    Bigger than a thimble.
    Not the Tardis. And smaller than the outside of the Tardis.
    [Chalky] Lots of things bigger than a breadbox that you can lift...or does breadbox not mean what I think it means?
    Is it powered by human effort (like a bicycle)?
    A suit of armour?
    [INJ] Yes.
    [Chalky] YES! Over to you.
    Oo-er! That was rather unexpected. OK - as I'm here ...

    A N I M A L / A B S T R A C T

    Is it a fictional human?
    Are they male?
    The Cheshire Cat?
    [I] Fictional Human? Yes
    [GL] Male? Yes
    [R] The Cheshire Cat? No
    Are they best known for being a character in a film?
    Is he an adult fictional human?
    Appears in Victorian-era literature?
    Is he a comic book or cartoon character?
    Is he a character in a novel?
    Is it a specific single individual?
    [GL] character in film? Arguable, but I'd say No
    [i] Adult? No
    [RS] Victorian era? No
    [i] comic/cartoon? No
    [I] novel? Yes
    [INJ] specific individual? Yes
    Does the name of the novel include the name of the answer?
    Does this non-adult fictional male character that appears in a novel hail from the British Isles?
    was the novel written in English?
    Harry Potter?
    Going for the obvious...
    Adrian Mole?
    Going for very nearly as obvious...
    sorry for the long wait - I went out tonight
    [INJ] name including name? No
    [i] British Isles? Yes
    [E] English? Yes
    [Ra] Harry boy? Nah - 'though going for the obvious may not be a bad move - this is a relatively well-known child character in a novel which, I think, most of us will have, or been forced to have, read at some point in our lives.
    [Ro] Adrian? No
    was Dickens the author of the novel?
    Was this young fellow involved with pirates?
    William Brown?
    Is the child the main protagonist of the novel?
    Does he appear in one novel, as opposed to a series?
    [E] Dickens? No
    [D] Pirates? If you're thinking R L Stephenson, then No
    [R] William? No
    [I] main protagonist? certainly one of them, Yes
    [Néa] one novel? Yes

    [I'll be away until lunchtime]

    Piggy (from Lord of the Flies)?
    I'm reasoning along the lines that it's 20th Century (although we only know that it's not Victorian) and that Chalky said we may have been forced to read it, which suggests something slightly more serious than HP or the Famous Five.
    Was the novel written in the 20th century?
    Just to confirm.
    Wart?
    Peter from 'The railway children'?
    A Result
    [I'm Not John] Your reasoning is exemplary - Piggy it is!

    Well played - here's the baton ....

    Well, what do you know?
    Thank you, though you might have given the baton a bit of a wipe down before passing it on. The next one is
    ANIMAL & VEGETABLE
    Sausages and mash?
    [Raak] No (but think how good you'll feel when one of your stabs in the dark does work)
    A partridge in a pear tree?
    The New Forest?
    Is the vegetable part still attached and growing ton the plant or is it detached, and parts now combined with the animal product in question?
    Hamburger and French Fries?
    Irish stew?
    [GL] No
    [Chalky] No
    [Irach] No ;-)......Oh, all right then - No and Yes(ish), but you've made a lot of assumptions
    [RS] No
    [Irach] No
    Is this something you eat?
    I was wondering when someone would ask that
    [Raak] Yes
    Would this be served as a meal on a plate?
    2 questions
    [Chalky] No, but the answers you probably want are - No and Yes
    [INJ] ah yes - was meaning: 'meal on a plate' as opposed to 'lolly on a stick' type of thing. But as you have vair kindly given me a precise answer ....
    Would this be considered British food?
    [Chalky] Yes
    That's it until tomorrow morning now
    Fish and chips?
    Is the animal part meat?
    Haggis?
    is this an accompaniment to a meal?
    [RS] No
    [Raak] No
    [Iroul] No
    [Chalky] No
    Is cheese involved?
    Is it savoury [as opposed to sweet]?
    [Chalky] No (small ripple from the audience)
    Meetings until lunchtime now.
    Cheesecake?
    Is cheese involved?
    I know I asked before, but you didn't answer
    Jaffa cakes?
    Pastry?
    ice-cream?
    Buttered toast?
    Is the animal part eggs?
    Cookies and milk?
    Back online
    [Raak] cheesecake - NO
    [GL] cheese - NO (sorry)
    [Iroul] Jaffas - NO
    [Chalky]Pastry - NO
    [GL] Ice cream - NO
    [irach] toast - NO
    [RS] animal part eggs - YES (Partly)
    [irach] Cookies & Milk - NO
    Some kind of cake?
    An omelette?
    Yorkshire pudding?
    French Toast?
    Is is a McDonalds Egg McMuffin?
    pancake?
    [Chalky] cake - NO (applause at the question and a bit of tutting and shaking of heads at the answer)
    [Raak] omelette - NO
    [Iroul] Yorkshire pud - NO
    [GL] French Toast - NO
    [Kim] Egg McMuffin - NO
    [Chalky] Pancake - NO
    Is the vegetable part a fruit?
    Is a cow in any way involved with its origins?
    [irach] a fruit? - Mostly NO
    [RS] Is a cow involved? - YES
    .The audience sits in stony silence through those questions and answers
    Is it a well-loved traditional British pudding?
    Custard?
    Spam, sausage, spam, spam, bacon, spam, tomato and spam?
    [Chalky] - YES (applause)
    [all] custard? - Each to his own taste, but for me the answer is NO
    Oh, you meant, 'is it custard?' - NO.
    [Néa] - NO (I think most people would regard that as a touch savoury - unless you ignore the Spam, Sausage, Bacon and Spam)
    Pineapple upside-down pudding?
    Spotted Dick?
    [Raak] - NO
    [Chalky] - NO (avoiding all the obvious comments)
    Is it bread and butter pudding?
    Can't be long now
    [all] - NO
    Jam roly-poly?
    Yorkshire Pudding?
    Is it typically eaten at Christmas?
    Rice Pudding?
    [Raak] Jam roly-poly? - NO (but on the right lines)
    [irach] still NO
    [Néa] xmas - NO
    [Chalky] Rice Pud? - NO
    How many words "on the card"?
    I think this is a legitimate question, traditionally.
    [Rosie] - it depends which version of the game you're thinking of, but I'm happy to answer. 3 (though there is a two-word answer which I might consider close enough).
    Caramel pudding?
    Dumplings?
    lemon meringue pie?
    [irach] Caramel pudding? - NO but sooooo close
    [Raak] - NO
    Sticky Toffee Pudding
    (not sure if that is any different from caramel pudding, mind you...)
    Death By Chocolate?
    Sussex Pond Pudding?
    Sorry for the previous guess, didnt see it had 3 words.
    And the winner is
    [CdM] - YES - Sticky Toffee Pudding it is
    I did have a little debate with myself over caramel pudding - I'd already decided to accept syrup/treacle sponge. I just wasn't quite sure what was meant by it exactly (for example is 'Crème Caramel' a caramel pudding. So, butter, eggs & milk for the animal and the fruit was because traditionally, it should be made with date sponge. So it's over to CdM.
    [Dazed5] I wish I'd thought of that - I would have used it if I had.
    All right -- I think this should be an easy one, actually.
    ABSTRACT
    anarcho-syndicalism?
    Can I buy a vowel please?
    anarcho-syndicalism? Oooh, very close, in the sense that "anarcho-syndicalism" contains all but one of the letters in both acceptable versions of the actual answer.
    Monday morning? (or mornings?)
    Is it a book?
    Mondays? No.
    Book? No.
    Is the missing letter in "anarcho-syndicalism" an 'e'?
    e-missing? No. And to clarify: it is a different letter that is missing for each of the acceptable answers. But in neither case is the missing letter an "e" (and in only one of the two cases is the missing letter a vowel).
    Is the missing letter a "y"? As in anarchy?
    Is it, in the broadest sense, a philosophy?
    Is it a human concept?
    missing y? No, in neither case.
    philosoph_? No.
    human concept? yes.
    Is it a munificent human concept? Or the contrary?
    Munificent or the contrary? Er. I think I would say No and No.
    Is it a work of art?
    Work of art? No.
    Does it primarily or largely appear in a book?
    Primarily or largely appear in a book? *considerable applause from audience* No.
    Is it popular?
    Is it to do with books or reading?
    Is there a religious connection?
    Is a book part of it?
    Would Socrates have found use for it?
    Is it fiction?
    Popular? Somewhat, depending on what you mean by "popular".
    Books or reading? It need not have anything to do with books or reading, but having said that, there is a definite connection.
    Religious? No.
    Book part of it? No, although there is a connection to some books.
    Socrates? No.
    Fiction? No.
    A cataloguing scheme?
    Cataloguing scheme? No.
    Is it anything to do with colour?
    Is it a general human concept, or specific to a particular culture or cultures?
    Is there only one / one manifestation of this?
    Colour? No.
    General human concept? *applause from the audience* It is a specific cultural example of a general human concept.
    One / one manifestation? Yes. (See above: the answer is one specific manifestation of something more general.)
    Is it generally considered a positive attribute?
    Is it generally considered a negative attribute?
    Anything to do with, ahem, desire?
    Is it a thing called Love?
    Anything to do with religion?
    Positive? It is not an attribute. People would probably view it neutrally. Some people might view it positively (I know some people in the Morniverse do.) I see no reason why it would be viewed negatively in general.
    Negative? See above.
    Desire? No.
    Love? No.
    Religion? Still no.
    Scansion?
    Philology?
    Is, it: Punctuation?
    Rhythm?
    Language?
    Scansion: No.
    Philology: *some applause from the audience* No.
    Punctuation: *tiny smattering of applause* No.
    Rhythm: No.
    Language? *applause from audience* No.
    Is it a particular language?
    Particular language: *major applause from audience* Yes!
    Finnish / Suomi?
    (though isn't the language actually Suomen?)
    The Queen's English?
    Chinese/Mandarin?
    European?
    Do (does?) more than a tiny minority of the Morniverse understand it?
    Is it a computer language?
    html?
    Is it the language of luuuurve?
    Japanese?
    Kyllä!
    Finnish? YES! *throws baton at Néa* I never quite worked out all those Finnish cases, but I think "suomen" is the indirect passive fifth person ablative.
    [CdM]I think you left out non-neuter
    ooooooh
    Wow, this is quite a responsibility. *catches baton deftly and drops it on her foot*

    [CdM] I believe you'll find that all those cases is a reason that some people do, in fact, view it negatively :-) (I don't!)

    ABSTRACT
    Anarcho-syndicalism?
    It's got to be right some day.
    This is not that day
    [INJ] No. Some people would probably say that there is a connection, but that's not a very helpful clue.
    The long dark night of the soul?
    Summer?
    Sarcastic anachronisms? (Why not?)
    Political?
    [Raak] No. *a few people in the audience clap, though*
    [Iroulé] No.
    [RS] No. (Cos it isn't.)
    [Rosie] No.
    A Finnish winter?
    [Raak] No.
    FYI
    My Internet access will be patchy the next few days, but I should be able to log in at least once or twice a day.
    Does darkness have something to do with it?
    Hmmmmmm
    [Raak] I would say that darkness is implied but not necessary.
    Does it have anything to do with the weather?
    The long dark teatime of the soul?
    Hello Néa :-) Is this an emotion?
    Does the connection between the answer and anarcho-syndicalism have anything to do with Spain?
    [Irouléguy] No.
    [all] Hmmm. No.
    [Chalky] Hello. No. (*applause*)
    [Irouléguy] No.
    gothdom?
    Is it a state of mind?
    Is it anything physical?
    Is it a human construct?
    [Raak] No.
    [Chalky] No. *some applause*
    [Rosie] Yes but no but yes but no.
    [INJ] It is not a construct.
    Gloom? Despair? Dyspepsia?
    Fannishness?
    No, no, no and no. You are not really on the right track at the moment.
    Is it some sort of game?
    Hoping the points have been set right.
    Sleep?
    [Rosie] Not a game.
    [Raak] No, but now you are most definitely on the right track. *audience claps and cheers*
    A dream?
    I think he's getting it...
    Yes, but that's not specific enough.
    A nightmare?
    A dream of a better world?
    A Midsummer Night's Dream?
    Boo!
    [Rosie] YES! *hands over baton with a flourish*
    ABSTRACT, with MINERAL CONNECTIONS
    Should have added ANIMAL CONNECTIONS also.
    Anything to do with Harry Potter?
    Raak - Absolutely nothing. :-)
    Are the animal connections human?
    Irouléguy - Yes
    Anything to do with King Arthur?
    Raak - No, not a thing.
    Is the mineral connection metal?
    Is the human connection to a non-fictional human
    (ImNotJohn) - Both yes.
    Camilla's new coat of arms?
    Is it a human construct?
    (That was original, wasn't it?)
    arrow_circle_down
    Want to play? Online Crescenteering lives on at Discord