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AVMA Take 2
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Yes, it's another round of that classic guessing game - Animal, Vegetable, Mineral, Abstract [or any combination thereof]. This effort - '03/'04 should address any queries, but then again, may just serve to confuse and baffle which some might say is the point of the game. Patience, integrity and a decent search engine may be useful ....
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[Boolbar] YES, the animal is human.
[Dujon] NO, not in Scotland, certainly not during lockdown.
[Raak]
  • YES, the human concerned is alive;
  • DEPENDS what you mean by "public", the human has for instance been on the telly.

[Tuj] NO, not a tiger, however much we may be fans of them.
Are they connected with politics?
Aw phooey :P
Is this human defined, for the purposes of this game, by the role they occupy?
[Tuj] NO, there is no politics here. Thought that might make a nice change.
[CdM] NO, insofar as I understand the question: I am expecting the name and surname of the human concerned. If you use any middle names, you will win points, and we all know what that means.
Do any of their middle names begin with P?
Cries of "Prizes!"
Is this human a woman?
Do they have musical talents?
[CdM] NO.
[Boolbar] NO.
[SimonsMith] IRRELEVANT, it's not for music that they are known.

Audienceometer: in repose.

Were they born before 1980?
[CdM] Delightful question.
An actor?
[Tuj] NO, which means this person is a lot younger than most of you.
[Boolbar] NO, although that may surprise some.

Audienceometer: Muttered off-topic conversations.

A sportsbeing?
Is this person currently to be found in England?
*putting on Mouse Ears*
Was this woman on a Disney show?
Are the initials of this person's middle names T E & E?
[SM] YES, this person is best known for sporting prowess.
[CdM] NO, and I'm pretty certain about this.
[KS]
  • a) NOT a woman as previously intimated
  • b) NO, no mice involved

[Duj] NO. Who on earth...

Audienceometer : Applause recorded for Simons Mith.

Is this young mouseless male abroad-from-an-English-perspective sportsbeing of European nationality?
Does he hit balls with a stick for a living?
I thought I broke something...
Does this sport use wheeled transport?
... Such as golf buggies?
[CdM] YES.
[Everyone else] NO.

Audienceometer : comatose.

*Interlude to sate Bismarck's curiosity*
Greta Tintin Eleonora Ernman Thunberg. She is not a woman, she's girl. Nor is she a politician.
*End* Carry on.
Is this sportsbeing currently (or was he very recently) in either Germany or Portugal?
[CdM] NO, at least if this is a reference to the football. He may well have been there, though given COVID19 I suspect he hasn't travelled.

Audienceometer: Low buzz of conversation about Greta Thunberg, Tintin etc.

Is this person less than 20 years old?
Would he have been competing at the Olympics had they taken place this year?
[Boolbar] NO, he is older.
[Tuj] NO.

Audienceometer: dozing.

Is their sport an Olympic sport?
[Raak] YES. Hint - it has figured in almost all the Olympics.
Is the sport running?
[Raak] NO. However, to play it well, you need to be able to run. Hint: the sport does not fall under the IOC definition of athletics.
Is their sport a team sport?
[Boolbar] YES, it is a team sport.

Audienceometer: Applause.

Is it played indoors?
Does this non-rodentia male participate in a sport made up of sports?
Is the person concerned British?
[Superman] This sport, as with many team sports at the Olympics, has both forms. Thus one is outdoor, so a big hint and a big NO.
[KagomeShuko] NO, just the one discipline here.
[Radox The Green] NO.

Audienceometer: Small effervescence for Radox.

Are they a Commonwealth sportsperson?
Is this person Irish?
Is the sport football?
[Simons Mith] NO, not from the Commonwealth.
[Tuj] NI, not Irish.
[CdM] YES! I was wondering if all the Olympic stuff would have distracted everyone too much.

Audienceometer: Hoots, cheers and mostly unprintable chants break out for CdM.

Is this gentleman employed by a team in the English Premier League?
[Tuj] NO.
French?
Has this character ever played for a team in the English Premier League?
[Boolbar] NON. Although he can speak the language.
[Superman] YES, he has.
Audienceometer: Confrontation between supporters of different clubs being dealt with by security.
Did he pick up a French accent from having worked for a time for a French team?
Is this person currently playing at a professional level?
[Raak] Not because of that, NO.
[CdM] YES, he is still playing. Hint: Also at a well-known club.
Audienceometer: A compromise deal resulting in incessant chants of "'Ere we go, earwig O, 'ere we go" is reached.
Has he won the World Cup?
[Tuj] NO WC on the honours board, I'm afraid. The more I go through this, the more it seems like he isn't a very good player, whereas he is well regarded. Paradise awaits him, no doubt.
Is he Belgian?
[CdM] YES, he is Belgian.
Audienceometer : Cheers, whistles and general noise for CdM.
Has he been employed by a football club from Manchester in the past?
Eden Hazard?
(I’m so certain that that is the right answer, given all the clues, that I’m tempted to just get the next round underway immediately. But I’ll observe proper protocol.)
[Tuj] No. Fellaini, Lukaku, De Bruyne... not a bad guess.
[CdM] YES! Mr Eden Michael Hazard it is, who incidentally is the most famous person to come from the area I live in. His club Real Madrid didn't make the final this year, and he's a born French speaker, if that helps clear up any lingering doubts. Also nobody won the extra points for his middle name, so they get rolled over. Please accept this Belgian ale and this spherical baton to kick off the next round.
Audienceometer: Lots of Chelsea songs going on.
CdM hits the back of the net!
[Bism] I was trying to play it like 'Guess Who?', and narrow things down. But CdM was far ahead of me!
CdM rises majestically, like a salmon, and if it hadn't gone into the goal, it would have been close!
I have [Tuj] in front of the microphone... Congratulations for making a game of it. I thought your build-up strategy was well thought out. Would you care to comment on the yellow card?
Well, y'know Bismarck, I thought I stuck to my game plan well, made a few key narrowings down, but all credit to CdM, he just executed his skills better on the day, he deserved to get his hands on the baton.
Look, it was a team effort. All credit to the lads. Sometimes you just get a bit of luck on the day, but in the end I think we deserved the win. Now it's just all about the next round.
Hidden textRosie, as the Chelsea fan, missed his big moment here. Oh, and I certainly think he is a good player. I am still bitter about his impressive injury-time equaliser against my team in the season before last.
Which is ABSTRACT and ANIMAL, I guess. You could make an argument for either one, but it's really a bit of both.
Does it begin with P?
I don't think my dear old Ipswich Town have ever had a Belgian player :D
Human?
A real human being, who has taken on a symbolic significance?
A mammal?
Begins with P? No.
Human? Yes?
Real human being who has taken on a symbolic significance? (*smattering of applause*) Yes, a real human being, but not a particular real human being. The "symbolic significance" part is trickier. The significance of this not-particular but real human being is indeed being defined in a symbolic way.
Mammal? See "Human?", above.
Is the fact that this person is not a particular s/he because their identity is unknown?
Is their identity unknown? (*some applause and a little nervous laughter*) This person is not a particular s/he because there is more than one of this person. In some cases their identity is known; in other cases not—and this observation is germane to the AOTC.
Superheroes?
Superheroes? No. (Real human being, remember?) But heroes? Sometimes.
The head or leader of something?
Head or Leader? Almost certainly not.
Medical workers?
Secret agents?
Medical workers? No
Secret agents? No.
Is this concept linked to a particular political outlook?
The Unknown Soldier?
Linked to particular political outlook. In principle and in general, No. But there certainly is a political link in some instances, and it's probably fair to associate those instances with (broadly speaking) a particular political outlook.
Unknown soldier? No. The fact that the identity of these individuals is sometimes known, sometimes not is perhaps an interesting feature of the AOTC, but it is not central.
Is the AOTC associated with a particular country?
The Tzadikim Nistarim?
is the concept linked to an ethnic group?
Associated with particular country? No.
Tzadikim Nistarim? (
Hidden text*googles surreptitiously*
) No.
Linked to ethnic group? No.
Trade or profession?
Trade or profession? No. That said, these people are defined (for the purpose of the AOTC) in terms of something that they do.
Do they do this role in the interests of someone else?
In the interests of someone else? Yes (*substantial applause*)
Is there a medical connection?
Do they rescue people?
Medical connection? No.
Rescuers? No.
Civil servants?
To do with organised charities?
Members of an exclusive (or secret) club?
Civil servants? No.
To do with charities? No.
Members of exclusive/secret club? No.
(To be clear, these people could be any of these things, but they are essentially irrelevant to the AOTC.)
Blood donors?
Blood donors? No.
Do musical instruments enter into this?
Anything to do with transport?
Musical instruments? (*after a moment, laughter followed by some applause*) In one very precise sense, the answer is Yes. At the same time I worry that this answer might be misleading. If you pursue this route, pay attention to your assumptions. :)
To do with transport? No.
Are these multiple s/hes akin to inventors/ideas/philosophers ... ad infinitum ... who loose the reins for others to take.
Do these people know that they are defined as the AOTC?
Did these people exist 200 years ago?
Whistle blowers?
Well, that took a turn
Philosophers or something? No.
Do they know they are so defined? Usually yes.
Did they exist 200 years ago? Presumably yes, but back then they weren't actually known as...
Whistleblowers? Yes! One flute-like baton handed back to Bismarck.
Winner's comments
Didn't manage to get it inside 20 goes, but your clues did help. The baton-flute is really something, I can get a tune out of it but it seems only to attract rats. Lots of them, too.
Right, let's try for ANIMAL again. Off you go, put the thinking caps on and try to imagine what this could be!
Old Yeller?
Mammal?
Human?
Hamster?
[Bism] Oh, shot, very well done!
John Lennon?
John Lennon?
(was of course what I meant to say)
Hidden textThe whoops! function doesn’t seem to be working for me; is anyone else having a problem with it? I’ve tried to use it on my last two posts and it didn’t work either time.
[Simons Mith] - I'm sure they might yell, and many may be old. But it isn't the dog.
[Boolbar] - I am regretting picking this topic because it's going to make these normal types of questions quite difficult to answer. But I am not going to change horses in the middle of a stream. So let me clarify: I am looking for a class or type of animal, and not a specific one. If that adds a dose of ABSTRACT, so be it.
YES, some are mammals. NO, the others aren't.
[Raak] - NOT human.
[Tuj] - Ah, at last an easy one. NOT a hamster.
Hidden textThanks. Paul Mariner would have been proud of that.

[CdM] - NO, though I can see your thinking .
Audienceometer: Chuntering and shuffling of chairs.
Mascots?
Extant?
Are they limited to z certain geographic area?
And, if so, is zee certain geographic area France?
[Simons Mith] - Mascots? NO.
[Raak] - Extant? Excellent question which will probably make this a short game. NO, based on lack of proof.
[Superman] certain geographic area? NO.
[CdM] - France? NO.
Audienceometer : Applause for Raak, followed by an outbreak of arguments.
Cryptids?
probably stealing Raak's thunder

PS, also testing Whoops! facility, and it does seem to work, although from the message I first got I thought it was failing. Perhaps the Preview interaction is different now? But anyway, I've now done multiple whoopses and they've all worked.

Aliens?
[Raak] Could well be, could well be, but that isn't the AOTC.
[Simons Mith] YES, cryptids it is. No doubt a Mith is an expert and I should have seen that coming.Take this rather oddly creepy baton and don't look behind you - just run.
Audienceometer : Massive applause and some unearthly noises at the back, causing a rush for the exits.
VEGETABLE
I should say, historically these have been vegetable. Nowadays mineral ones are also prevalent.
Are the mineral ones fossils?
[Fossils] Nuh uh.
Historically made of paper?
[Historically paper?] Nope.
Is it an item of clothing?
[clothing] Nay.
Means of recording things, like books?
[Means of recording] No again.
Are the mineral ones plastic?
A toy?
Begins with P?
[mineral=plastic] Possibly. I don't know for certain, having never encountered plastic instances, but I would assume so. So a provisional Yes.

[Toy] No.

[p] No.

Specific to certain cultures?
[culture-specific] No.
Is it a fruit?
[Fruity] Negative.
Is it historically made from a tree by-product?
[Treey] Yes.
Is there one in your house?
As usual, probably on the wrong side of the useful/fun line
[Housey] No.
Would you find it in a tree?
[Found in a tree?] Nay.
Can you buy one in a shop?
[Shoppable] Yes.
Is it portable?
[Portable] Yes
Is it smaller than a tennis ball?
[<Tennis ball?] No.
Do IKEA make a self-assembly version?
[Self assembly] No.
Is it solely decorative?
[decorative] No.
Is it designed to be sat upon?
[Sittable] No, very much not.
Is there a spoon?
[spoonfulness] Alas, no.
Is it designed to be held in one hand?
An item of furniture?
Is it found in a school?
Not in a house, not in a tree, Hey Simons, just let it be!
[single-handed] Yes!

[furniture] no.

[skool] yes.

[KagomeShuko] :-) we should have a rhyming game of this. As if the normal version wasn't hard enough.

Is the vegetable part wood?
[wood] Yes, it wood have been.
Is it used for art?
Is it used to measure things?
[Art] no.

[Metrics] Nuh uh.

Does music come into it?
I am a bit stuck on the idea of a wooden hand-held instrument used in schools for which no plastic version has ever been seen by Simons Mith. So I am asking this question because it worked last time...
Does music come out of it?
Could it typically be maneuvered through a 5cm diameter circular hole?
[music I/O] No, either way.

[5cm hole] Yes!

BTW, I did check on Amazon, didn't find any wooden ones at all any more, didn't spot any hard plastic, but I did spot some foam ones for sale. Hadn't thought of foam. Other than that the rest were all metal.
A broomstick handle?
Is it a piece of sports equipment?
[broomstick handle] No, and expunge any thoughts about Quidditch. :-)

[sports] Yes! Audience applause

A golf club?
Is it used in an Olympic sport?
So it is bigger than a tennis ball, which is 6.7cm in diameter, but can be manoeuvred through a 5cm diameter hole.
A javelin?
[CdM] I assume long'n'thin fits both.
[Golf club] No

[Olympic] Yes

[Javelin] No. Granted, they used to be wooden and are now metal, but y'can't get foam ones.

An arrow?
Hockey stick?
Is it essential for playing the sport in question?
[B] I dunno. I don't think it's obvious that a long thin thing is bigger than a spherical thing (where "long" means greater than the diameter of the sphere and "thin" means smaller than the diameter of the sphere).
[Arrow] No

[Hockey Stick] No

[Essential] After quite a lot of thought, No. It's quite important, but not as essential as, say, the ball in football.

Is it protective equipment?
[Protective] No.
Used in a team sport?
[Team] Yup.
Is it used to hit something with?
[Percussive] No.
Is it used to make a mark on something?
[Mark-making] Nope.
Is it used to poke something?
I'm feel there's a Dr. Seuss poem in here somewhere.
Does it hit things?
Does it mark things?
Does it push and poke and prod things?
No, this object does not hit.
Neither does this object mark
Does it push or poke or prod?
Sadly none of those three gets a nod.
Ski pole?
Hidden textBool's question wasn't 'uniquely used in a team sport?'
[ski pole] No.

[uniquely used] I'm not 100% sure what you mean, but the AOTC is not used in any non-team variant of the sport(s).

A cricket stump?
[Stumped] No.
Is it at least as flexible as a rope?
[Flexibility] No, it's rigid.
Can I buy something with the same name in a bakery?
Trying not to take over due to busyness.
[Bread] Yes. I hadn't thought of that foody crossover.
Is "stick" one of the words on the card?
Do you want to rethink your answer to Tuj's question about "is it designed to be held in one hand?" ?
Also avoiding taking over. :)
[sticky] No. Actually I had only put one word on the card, but you're narrowing in on the sporting variant.

[rethinking] No. The circumstances under which two hands are used are a giveaway.

And now you're all just toying with me, I think.

OK then. Is it, perchance, a Relay Handover Cylinder?
[Baton] Yes, it is.

Flouting COVID restrictions, the audience claps one-handed with their neighbours.

It's all yours, CdM, although I'm afraid I haven't got a symbolic object to hand over. Some bugger ran off with it.

All right. This is, depending on how you think of it, either ABSTRACT, or MINERAL and VEGETABLE with important ANIMAL connections.
The world?
The world? No.
Is the MV+A a physical representation of the abstract thing?
Physical representation? I think "physical incarnation" might be a better phrase. In the M&V sense, the AOTC is very definitely real. Indeed, perhaps it is a mistake to call it Abstract; I think what I really mean is that the AOTC is a human construct.
A crucifix?
Is this a universal concept?
Crucifix? No.
Universal concept? No on both counts. It's not a concept, and it's quite specific.
Is the Animal part one animal or many?
How many animals? Many.
Is it a cycle/circle/feedback loop of some kind?
The Terracotta Army?
Feedback loop? No, much more concrete than that.
Terracotta Army? No (much less interesting than that). :)
A dolls house?
A city?
They're quite concrete. Regrettably.
A motorway?
Is there a single person in charge of this thing?
Doll house? No.
City? Yes! *sustained applause*
Motorway? No.
Single person in charge? Well, it's a city. Do cities have a single person in charge of them? Depends on how you interpret "in charge", I suppose. Wikipedia does inform me that the person nominally in charge of this particular city holds an "uncommon office".
It USED to be boring before the water crisis . . .
Is it Flint, Michigan?
[KS] Flint? No. (I'm not saying this is an uninteresting city; I'd hate you to take offence.)
If you're tired of this particular city, does that suggest you're tired of life?
Oh, say can you say?
Does this city's spelling actually look like how the name of the city is pronounced.

Cdm - It's a joke in the U.S. which isn't really true any more and I'm not sure when it changed - but at one point, Flint, MI was considered extremely boring - peole would say things like they drove through Flint, MI and saw a rock and a flower, nothing else.
Tired of Life? Again without wishing to insult KS, were that true I suspect it would have a rather high suicide rate.
Spelt as it sounds? I'd say yes.
Hidden text [KS] I lived five years of my life less than 50 miles from Flint; I am well aware of its reputation. :)
Has this city been the subject of a popular song?
Popular song? Yes -- perhaps several (although that might depend on how strictly I'm supposed to interpret the word "subject"). Googling tells me there are at least half a dozen songs with the name of this city in their titles, and many many more that include the name in the lyrics. Most of these songs I had never heard of, but some undoubtedly qualify as popular songs.
Is this city in the Eurozone?
Is it in Asia?
In the Eurozone? No.
In Asia? No.
[KS] I've only just realised that when I wrote (in reply to your question re Flint) "I'm not saying this is an uninteresting city; I'd hate you to take offence", you quite reasonably understood "this" to mean Flint. I was actually speaking not about Flint, but the AOTC.
Begins with P?
P-initial? Sorry, no.
Noo Yoik?
South American?
New York? No.
South American? No. (*some whispering and a little laughter from the audience*)
Does this city exist today?
On the continent of North America?
Currently in existence? Yes.
North American? Yes.
St Louis?
Come on, you blues.
St Louis? No.
(Speaking of the Blues, Rosie, you missed your chance a few weeks ago when the AOTC, set by Bismarck, was a certain Mr Eden Hazard.)
Chicago?
Does this city have a name derived from Spanish?
(CdM) I've no time for Hazard - he's a deserter.
Is it South of the 40th parallel north?
Chicago? No.
Derived from Spanish? No.
South of 40? Yes.
Is it named after a person?
While I'm at it, is it the state capital of North Dakota?
Named after a person? No.
Bismarck? No. ( 46°48′30″N > 40°00′00″N)
Is it on an island?
On an island? No.
On a river?
On a river? Yes. (*applause*)
Does it host a team in one of the US' Big 4 sporting leagues (NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL)?
ABBFHLLLMNNN (not necessarily in that order)? No.
Is it innnnnnn Texas?
(and do hint if there's a more interesting way we could be hunting it!)
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