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AVMA Take 2
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Yes, it's another round of that classic guessing game - Animal, Vegetable, Mineral, Abstract [or any combination thereof]. This effort - '03/'04 should address any queries, but then again, may just serve to confuse and baffle which some might say is the point of the game. Patience, integrity and a decent search engine may be useful ....
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Rabbit?
Goat?
[Ro] Rabbits are no part of this breed.
[Bo] Caprids, likewise, are not typical.
Deer?
[So] Deer, no. Please stop the ruminating.
Are these beasts regarded as pests?
Are these animals ungulates?
[Ro] I don't believe that even hunters could maintain they were pests.
[Bo] Yes, they all take their ungulation seriously.
Camels?
A Shetland pony?
[Ra] The Camelidae are out of reckoning. Audience, though, is getting the hump.
[Ro] Well, that gets a clap, but [Gusset Login] got there firster and better.
Do they still exist?
[Ra] They certainly exist today.
A beast of burden?
Is it a crossbreed?
[Ro] The horses certainly are, but I don't think anyone has ever tried the others.
[Bo] No miscegenation involved.
Equids generally?
[Ra] Gusset guessed that already. Still it gets a round vigorous if impatient applause and subdued cries of "Get on with it!" and "Can someone find us a zoologist?"
Odd-toed ungulates, a.k.a. Perissodactyla?
We have a winner!
And the zoologist appears, and with sage wisdom provides the answer. Therefore *Wild applause for Raak!*
For you sir, take your choice of baton engraved with a rhino, tapir, zebra, or what might be a horse, and follow the blue lights over there for the interview.
(I was waiting for [Tuj] to ask the p-question...)
The next is MINERAL and ABSTRACT.
Is it that boulder that Sisyphus has to push up a hill?
Is it decorative?
[B1] Nice idea,but not Sisyphus? boulder.
[B2] Not decorative.
Is the mineral in liquid form?
[Boolbar] Not liquid.
Is it the name of a mineral?
Does it begin with P?
Whoops, am I late? Sorry Bism =)
Stone?
[Bismarck] Not the name of a mineral.
[Zarquon] Does not begin with P.
[Rosie] Yes, mainly stone.
Is this found in the Bible?
[Boolbar] It is not in the Bible.
A bridge?
A geologic term?
Is it unique?
[Raak] I see your reference, and I appreciate it =)
[Rosie] Not a bridge.
[Bismarck] Not a geologic term.
[Tuj] Er...the MINERAL thing is unique, and the ABSTRACT thing is, broadly speaking, unique, but the MINERAL thing and the ABSTRACT thing are not the same thing.
Mount Everest?
[Bismarck] Not Mount Everest.
(Not sure how Mount Everest could be abstract, unless there's a novel called that.)
Stone me?
[Software] Not a figurative expression.
A geographic term?
Proper names are intrinsically abstract. I'm sure Wittgenstein said that, if not I'm making it up.
[Bismarck] Not a geographic term. Also, whether it is a proper name (that would be another question), proper name-ness is not the ground for this thing's abstractness.
(It seems to me, pace Wittgenstein, that The Royal Festival Hall (for example) is very concrete.)
Is the MINERAL thing human-made?
[Boolbar] It is man-made!
Is it comestible?
[Bismarck] Not comestible.
Does it involve a proper name?
Is this the Royal Festival Hall?
Is the mineral part a building?
[B1a] It does involve a proper name.
[B1b] But is not the RFH.
[B2] Is a building!
Is this building in Europe?
[Boolbar] It is, or was, in Europe.
Does it still exist?
[Bismarck] That is argued over, but the simplest answer is that no, it no longer exists.
Is this building in the British Isles?
Mysteriouser and mysteriouser... European building that may or may not exist, named by or after someone, but not decorative.
[Bismarck] Not in the British Isles.
Is its putative non-existence the result of politics?
[Rosie] Isn't everything the result of politics?
Perhaps I have been too obscure about its existence. It was built; it was partly dismantled, and partly fell into ruin, which is why it no longer exists.
[Bismarck] Although it does involve a proper name, the name is not the name of a person.
Right, this is far too vague up to here, could be anything from the Teutoburg Wall through Horta's Maison du Peuple to the Nurburgring Nordschleife. Is it in Germany?
[Bismarck] Not in Germany.
Alhambra?
[GL] Not the Alhambra. (That still exists anyway.)
Was it in Scandinavia?
A fortification such as a castle?
(Raak) re. politics. Not my excessive smoking.
[Rosie] Yes, this could be classified as a fortification. But was not a castle.
Was/Is it in France?
[Bismarck] Not France.
Is/Was it in Greece?
The Seigfried line?
[Boolbar] Not Greece.
[Software] Not the Siegfried line.
Did the Romans build it?
[Boolbar] Not built by the Romans.
Was it in the Balkans?
Scandinavia q still outstanding?
[Bismarck] Not in Scandinavia or the Balkans.
We'd better try Italy, then. Is it in Italy?
Is it in Spain?
Is it in one of the Visegrad countries?
getting there, getting there...
Not in Italy, Spain, ...(pause to google)..., or in Visegrad.
Is it in one of the Benelux countries?
[Bismarck] Not Benelux.
The audience is yawning and fidgetting.
Was it in a country whose name ends with a vowel?
As far as an English speaking person is concerned.
Is it in Switzerland?
It's not just the audience... still got Romania, Moldova, European Russia, Liechtenstein, European Turkey, Slovenia, Austria, Malta, Cyprus, and the Baltic countries to go. Let's see who cracks first.
Oh yes, there's Portugal too. Is it in Portugal?
[Bismarck] The country ends with a vowel. As indeed do most countries.
Not Switzerland. One of that list does apply, though.
Not Portugal.
One might try other angles. After all, how much would the country really tell you? What sort of building, what time period, and that abstract thing that no-one is asking about. I expect the answer is quite well known to most people here.
There are five words on the card.
Was this building still in use in 1900?
[Boolbar] Not in use in 1900.
That makes things clearer. Did people live in it?
[Bismarck] This building was not for living in.
Did this exist before 1900?
Was this a place of entertainment?
[Bismarck] Existed before 1900.
[Boolbar] Not a place of entertainment.
Any connection with horror stories?
A place of worship?
Did this exist B.C.?
[Rosie] Aaaaaaahhhhh???? No.
[Boolbar] Not a place of worship.
[Bismarck] Did not exist B.C.
Was this structure used for holding back or containing water?
[Boolbar] Not waterworks.
Was this structure a defensive wall?
A ripple of applause, as the stage of Discovery of the Footprints is attained. "These traces can no more be hidden than one's nose, looking heavenward."
Not a defensive wall.
Was it built by a religious order?
Did it exist before the year 1000 A.D.?
Was it a gateway or entrance?
[Bismarck] Not built by a religious order.
[hi again!] Did not exist before 1000 AD.
[Boolbar] Applause! It was a gateway or entrance!
triumphal arch?
[B] Not a triumphal arch.
Is the AOTC a book title?
[B] Not a book title.
Are the 5 words of the AOTC in English?
[Bismarck] The words on the card are in English. (One might quibble about foreign proper names, but I won't.)
Was this gateway/entrance at the perimeter of a city?
I hear the song of the nightingale. The sun is warm, the wind is mild, willows are green along the shore - Here no Ox can hide!
[Boolbar] (more applause!!) Yes, a gateway at the perimeter of a city.
(going back to a happy hunting ground) Is this in the Ukraine?
I seize him with a terrific struggle. His great will and power are inexhaustible. He charges to the high plateau far above the cloud-mists, Or in an impenetrable ravine he stands.
[Bismarck] Yes, it is (was) in the Ukraine!
[We're showing our age there. It's "Ukraine" these days, not "the Ukraine".]
[Raak] "The Ukraine" still exists. It's a region, whereas "Ukraine" is the country.
Do precious metals come into this?
[Raak] is so close to nirvana that it seems a shame to hinder the process. For only on super-Himalayan heights may the Answer be revealed.
[Bismarck] Strictly speaking, no precious metals are involved in the building itself, although there is a popular connection.
All quietened down a bit now - how about the golden gate of Kiev?
Mounting the Ox, slowly I return homeward. The voice of my flute intones through the evening. Measuring with hand-beats the pulsating harmony, I direct the endless rhythm. Whoever hears this melody will join me.
[Bismarck] (a round of applause!) Hm, should I award the prize? (Whispered conference with Mycroft, ending with Mycroft shaking his head.) The mineral thing is indeed the Golden Gate of Kiev (named golden only for the domes of a nearby church). But the words on the card name both this thing and an abstract thing which is not called the Golden Gate of Kiev.
Are we looking for a piece of music here?
I don't think it is anything to do with Chicken Kiev.
Astride the Ox, I reach home. I am serene. The Ox too can rest.
[Boolbar] We are indeed looking for a piece of music.
Gates, gold, Raak, Mussorgsky, all merge.
This heaven is so vast, no message can stain it.
Bismarck has it: The Great Gate of Kiev.
Winners comments
I said what? Plausible deniability, take a bow.
So let us return and mingle with this blissful world.
Right, this next one is Mineral, to keep the ball rolling, and there are three words on the card.
Is it man made?
Is it bigger than a toaster?
Is the first word "The"?
Is there only one of this?
[GL] Artificial? No.
[Kn] Bigger than small? Yes.
[Ra] Definite article? Yes.
[Bo] Unique? Yes.
A precious stone?
[Ra] Gem-quality? No.
Liquid?
Is it a mountain?
Is it a natural feature?
[GL] No.
[Bo] No.
[Ro] Yes, on balance.
A waterway?
Is it larger than Wales?
[Ra] Wet? No.
[Bo] Fwy na Cymru? Yes.
England
Oi! Mwy na Chymru, 'sgwelwch yn dda.
Is it not on the Earth?
[Ro] Anglo? No.
[Bo] Extraterrestrial? Yes.
Mars?
[Ro] Red planet? No.
The Milky Way? (Other chocolate bars are available)
Is it within our Solar System?
[Kn] No.
[Bo] No.
Is it a galaxy?
Chocolate bar theme continuing.
A nebula?
Applause and the odd Janx spirit all around
[Bo] Yes!
Hidden textThey should have praline centres, all that black hole-at-the-centre theory is due for revision

[Ra] No.
The Magellanic Clouds?
[Ro] Star cluster? No.
The Andromeda Galaxy?
Take a bow, Boolbar!
The winning move and within twenty questions, a fine effort. Take this complimentary Pan-galactic Gargle Blaster and proceed to the winner's enclosure.
Recovers from hard hitting but lemony hangover
Wow! Winning this is out of this world! And thanks for the bow, I'll pop it in my hair. Um, the next one is
ABSTRACT & ANIMAL
Aslan?
A painting?
Animal part fearsome?
[Raak] No wardrobe based lion.
[Bismark] No framed masterpiece.
[Rosie] To some I'm sure. Frightening. Audience nodding
is the animal one that might be found in the wild?
Is the animal a snake?
[Bismarck] You wouldn't really say that about this animal, so let's go for no.
[Rosie] No.
Thinking about it, the AOTC is abstract involving an abstract animal, so my answer to Rosie's "fearsome" question is more to do with the abstract animal and not the isolated animal alone. Sorry for any confusion caused. I'm more awake today. As you were.
Is the animal extinct?
[Bismarck] Definitely not!
A sacred cow?
Is the AOTC an idiomatic phrase?
[Software] No.
[Rosie] No.
A mythological creature?
An heraldic animal?
Wonders when someone will ask the usual "animal" question.
[Raak] The AOTC is not a mythological creature, but the animal part does appear in myths.
[Superman] I can find examples of the animal part in heraldic crests, but is not usually thought of as such.
A snake in the grass?
[Raak] Alas no.
Cheshire cat?
[Bismarck] No grins for you either.
A quadruped?
Is the abstract bit a literary reference?
[Superman] No.
[Bismarck] Yes!   Audience wake up and applaud.
Is the animal a human?
[Gusset Login] Yes!
So we are looking for somebody in a book... Is the perspn one of those Hero With a Thousand Faces types?.
The man with no name?
[Bismarck] Not one of those types.
[Gusset Login] Not without a name.
An historical (real) personage?
Is the personage male?
[Superman & Bismarck] Can you share this "No" between you? I'm running out of them. Neither real or male.
Is she a religious figure?
Does she have a statue in Denmark?
Liberty?
Britannia?
[All] No! Although I can't guarantee that there is not a statue somewhere in Denmark made by a bored sculptor and placed in their garden :)
Associated with a particular country?
[Raak] Yes!
Is that country in Europe?
[Superman] Yes!
British Isles?
Bernadette Soubirous?
[Bismarck] Yes!
[Raak] Not her.
Boudicca?
The Old Lady of Threadneedle Street?
[Raak] Not her either.
[Gusset Login] I like the way you think, but no.
 
The basics so far... Animal=Human (humans are found in myths, not extinct, etc.) Human=female with a name, not a religious figure. Overall a literary reference and connected with the British Isles.
Alice in Wonderland?
[Superman] Not her. Even through the looking glass.
Does this character have a pib named after her?
-pib+pub..
[Superman] Not that I know of (pibs or pubs). Without a list of all pub names worldwide it is hard to be certain. But a google search shows nothing, although I did find a pub in the UK with a very connected name.
From Arthurian legends?
Does the good lassie turn up in a play?
[Raak] No.
[Bismarck] If she does (and she has) it is not the original source, so don't be distracted by that.
Maid Marian?
[Raak] No.
Was the literary reference made after 1900?
[Bismarck] Not that recent, no.
Royalty?
[Raak] No.
Involved with the occult?
Scottish?
[Bismarck] No.
[Raak] Smattering of audience going 'oooh'   There is an aspect of the AOTC that would come under the broad sweep of the occult. However the fictional female in the AOTC was not involved with the occult.
Mother Shipton?
Though I have admit she might have been real.
[Superman] Not her.
Originating after 1600?
[Raak] It is my great pleasure to say "yes".
Shakespeare's Dark lady?
[Raak] Nor her.
 
Just to clarify and hint : when I said earlier "...but the animal part does appear in myths." I was referring to humans in general for the animal part (as people were trying to identify the animal at that point), not this particular literary fictional human female character.
One of the royalty?
The White Lady?
Would it help to define the geographical appurtenance of said female more closely?
[Superman] No to Royalty and not The White Lady but the latter gets the audience murmuring.
[Bismarck] I suspect it would help.
I'm game... Welsh lady?
[Bismarck] Best hide from those people with shotguns then... As for Wales, no.
it's the leg i was referring to, thanks for the sympathy. Ireland?
[Bismarck] Nor Ireland. That should narrow it down a bit :)
Wilkie Collins' Woman in White?
(arriving late here, I am just reacting to the recent murmur from the audience)
[gil] Nice try, but no.   Audience are looking more expectant now.
Irene Adler?
[Raak] To Sherlock Holmes she may be always the woman. But not this time.
Lack of inspiration leaves brute force... North of Manchester?
[Bismarck] Yes!
19th century?
[Raak] Yes! Yes!
from Dickens?
from the Bront?s?
Try ë for ë
[Raak] Not the Dickens.
[Superman] Shouting over the audience cheering   Yes! From the Brontës!
Oh great, never read any of them. Wikipedia suggests Jane Eyre as a possibility, is that it?
[Superman & Wikipedia] Not that possibility.
Bront?s, Brontë, Bront. Testing. Still no idea, though.
Is the AOTC a personage in 'Jane Eyre'?
[Superman] Not that book no.
Start to overheat with anticipation : someone opens a window.
Oh, go on then: Agnes Grey?
[Superman] Not her, or any other shade of grey.
Lucy Snowe?
C'mon Boolbar, we all want to know if gil has it!
[Superman] Busy weekend and...
[gil] No. [hint : wrong Brontë]
Nelly Dean?
[Superman] No but... Some audience applause and whooping
Isabella Linton?
[Superman] No. Still the wrong character. The audience fall silent. Only the sound of a branch tapping on the window can be heard.
 
Note that the AOTC does have an extra part than just the character's name : see murmur above.
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