mc5 - AVMA Take 2

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AVMA Take 2

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Yes, it's another round of that classic guessing game - Animal, Vegetable, Mineral, Abstract [or any combination thereof]. This effort - '03/'04 should address any queries, but then again, may just serve to confuse and baffle which some might say is the point of the game. Patience, integrity and a decent search engine may be useful ....

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Does the game require forming teams?

Ultimate frisbee?

A spectator sport?

[cfm] Teams? NO. I'm sure it can be played with teams, but it isn't usually.
[CdM] Ultimate frisbee? NO.
[Raak] Spectator sport? I think the best answer is NO. But there is nothing to stop people watching!

Are there organised competitions?

Is it normally associated with one culture

e.g. Kabbadi (sp?)

Does the game involve equipment of some kind?

Do the players typically get muddy?

[Phil] Competitions? YES. I know of at least one.
[ImNotJohn] One culture? NO. I think.
[cfm] Equipment? YES-ish. Players need an item to play the game, but calling it equipment is perhaps misleading. Would the pies in a pie-eating contest be called equipment?
[Raak] Mud glorious mud? NO. But the opportunity is there.

Cheese-rolling?

Does the 'equipment' constitute the vegetable and mineral part of the definition?

[Phil] Chasing Cheese? NO.
[NotJohn] 'Equipment' vegetable/mineral? YES for vegetable traditionally. Some mineral items can also be used. *Audience applause and murmur*

Is it a game in which two people play against each other?

Is there a non-human animal connection?

Does this involve the throwing/tossing of an object?

Does it involve climbing?

Is the vegetal matter wood?

[Raak] One-against-one? YES. Or more than two. At least two.
[cfm] Non-human animal? In an abstract way, there is a connection, so YES. *Audience mutter*
[Dujon] Tossing? YES *A ripple of applause* Or at least using gravity.
[NotJohn] Climbing? NO.
[Phil] Vegetable wood? YES! *A wave of applause* The vegetable part could also be a mineral to play, but in the origins of the game, it was vegetable (wood).

Poohsticks?

Golf?

Winner!

[Raak] A hole in one? NO.
[NotJohn] Poohsticks? YES!! Your stick has passed under the bridge first.
Hands NotJohn a somewhat moist twig.

It's the little flick of the wrist as you drop it that makes all the difference.

OK, this one is VEGETABLE or (ANIMAL with ABSTRACT connections)

Wooden Horse?

[Phil] Sylvan equine? - NO

A vegetable?

As in, "a vegetable" being the answer, metaphorical for someone irreversibly brain-dead.

Some great guesses here

[Raak] Vegetable vegetable? - NO

Trojan Horse?

Is this a homograph?

A wooden sculpture?

A swede?

[GL] Trojan Horse? - NO
[Chalky] Homograph? - Tricky, I think it could be argued either way, but I'd go for - NO
[Raak] Wooden Sculpture? - NO
[Dujon] Swede? - NO

Is the Animal a human?

Is it usually eaten?

[Chalky] - Human animal? - YES
[Boolbar] Usually eaten? - NO

Made of paper?

[CdM] Papery? - NO, but * a few suppressed chuckles in the audience*

Is it unique?

Made of wood?

Some progress

[Boolbar] Only 1? - YES for the Animal
[Phil] Woody? - YES for the vegetable

Fictitional Animal?

[Chalky] Fictional Animal? - NO

Is it a tree?

Aha!

[Boolbar] A Tree? - YES *prolonged applause*

Family tree?

[Software] Genealogical? - NO

A specific kind of tree?

Warm

[CdM] Specific kind of tree? - YES *further applause*

Rowan?

Tree of Life?

[Phil] - Rowan? - NO? (So not ROWAN Atkinson, nor ASHley Cole, nor Gabriel OAK, etc)
[cfm] Tree of Life? - NO

Joshua Tree?

[cfm] U2 Tree? - NO (I wondered if someone would guess that)

There is no cheating or discrepancy going on here - the answer, exactly as stated on the card, is both a kind of tree and a unique human animal. Attacking either part is possible. Perhaps inevitably some people will find one alternative easier than the other.

Sequoyah?

[Raak] Sequoia? - NO (I'll look up your spelling - mine is that required to make it the equal shortest word containing all vowels once only)

{Raak] Isn't that fascinating - thank you. It's also a very good guess. Just happens to be incorrect.

Is the tree an evergreen?

Is the unique human male?

[Boolbar] Evergreen - YES
[cfm] - male? - YES

Did he die before 1900?

Died pre-1900? - NO *the audience is hushed*

Courtney Pine?

[Chalky] Courtney Pine? - NO

Stan Laurel?

[Phil} - A laurel called Stan? - NO
Just a a gentle prod, the person is probably the harder element to get for most of you.

Is it a pine tree?

[Boolbar] A pine? - Technically NO, but commonly YES *applause*

Scots pine?

A fir?

[cfm] McPine? - NO
[Raak] Firry? - NO

The monkey puzzle?

I thank my dear late father for one of his useless facts.

Araucaria

We have a winner AND we have a winner

The answer on the card is Araucaria, aka the Monkey Puzzle tree or the Chilean Pine.
Araucaria is also the pseudonym of the Rev. John Galbraith Graham, the doyen of British cryptic crossword compilers, who recently announced that he is suffering from terminal cancer using the answers to clues in one of his puzzles to do so. (Araucaria is suffering from 18 down of the 19, where the clue to 18 down was 'Sign of growth (6)')
Well then, now what do I do - Phil is exactly right, but he set the last one and in the absence of his answer I would have allowed Software's, so I will.
One 'Stick to continue the innings (5)' passed on to Software.

Department of Corrections

That's 'last but one'

Indeed, I meant to add that if I got that right, I would give the baton to Software, as I would not have got it without him. I remember the day (probably early 1990s) that I discovered what the crossword compiler's name meant. I hadn't heard about his illness though. Anyway, onwards and upwards (or downwards and acrosswards)

Department of useless facts

John Graham also sets puzzles under the pseudonym 'Cinephile', which is an anagram of 'Chile Pine'.

Ah, that'll be me then accepting the prickly baton.

Right, ANIMAL with ABSTRACT connections.

Red rum?

Human?

Fictional?

Animal the Muppet drummer?

[GL] Horse meat? NO
[cfm] One of us? YES!
[NJ] Virtual? NO
[Bool] Don't be a Muppet. NO

A unique human?

Currently alive?

[cfm] One-off? YES!
[NJ] Living? YES!

A male?

[Phil] Manly? YES!

The creative type? (writer, visual artist, performer, etc.)

Does this person have some language other than English as his mother tongue?

British?

Is or was involved in politics?

[cfm] arty farty? NO
[CdM] Bilingual? NO
[Raak] True Brit? YES!
[NJ] political animal? NO *some muttering among the audience*

Involved in government?

A member of the Royal Family?

[cfm] Elected? NO *more mutterings in audience*
[Phil] Royalty?NO

A scientist?

Has this person received an honour from the Queen?

A non-elected government employee?

A journalist?

[Phil] Boffin? NO *guffaws from some of the audience*
{Raak} Dubbed? YES! *mutterings among some of the audience*
[cfm] Quangoish? NO *some of the audience have views on this it would seem*
[NJ] Hack? NO

Sebastian Newbold Coe, Baron Coe CH KBE?

David Beckham?

[Raak] Superman? NO
[Phil] Becks? NO

Involved in the Justice system?

[NJ] Judiciary? NO

Involved in the sporting world?

A broadcaster?

[Raak] Sporty?: NO
[Phil] Pundit?: NO (not in the normal sense anyway)

Under 50 years old?

Over 70 years old?

[Phil] <50 years?: NO
[Bool] >70 years?: NO

A businessman?

[Raak] Something in the city?: NO

Does he begin with P?

Involved with education?

An Entrepreneur?

A celebrity chef?

[CdM] P?: NO
[NJ] Tutor?: NO * mutterings among some of the audience *
[Chalks] Wheeler Dealer?: NO
[Raak] Cooking fat?: NO

Summary

A living British man between 50 and 70 with a gong, but not any of: a creative, a non-native English speaker, a politician, a politician in power, employed by the government, a journalist, in the legal profession, a sportsman, a broadcaster, a businessman, a P_____, an educator, an entrepreneur, or a chef.

Was he formerly in any of those professions but is now retired?

[Raak] Retiree?: NO

Has he published written works?

*focusing on the abstract* Do we know about him because of a song or piece of music?

Do we know about him because of something that happened to him?

continuing the thought

Does he work in PR?

[CdM] Author?: NO not in the strictest interpretation, that is
[Chalks] Musical?: NO
[NJ] Events?: YES!
[Phil] Spinner?: NO * chuckles from some of the audience *

Is he known for inventing something?

Was he the victim of a crime?

Did the "something that happened to him" happen outside the United Kingdom?

[Bool] Inventor? NO
[NJ] Mugged? NO
[CdM]Overseas? NO

Did he mount or inspire some kind of protest?

Does he have a Wikipedia entry?

Is he a 'Sir .....'?

[cfm] Protester? NO * some heated discussion among part of the audience +
[Phil] Wikied? YES!
[Chalks] Knighted? NO * spontaneous sporadic claps from audience *

Has this person been stripped of his honour from the Queen?

[Bool] Demoted? NO

Has he received the Order of the British Empire?

Does he have an employer?

[GL] OBE etc? NO
[Phil] Employer? YES! * chuckles from some of the audience *

Is he a 'Lord ...'?

Is he a Duke?

[Chalks] Peer of the Realm? YES!
[GL] Duke? NO

A life peer?

[GL] Lifer? YES!

A man of the cloth?

The Lord Williams of Oystermouth?

(simulposted with Phil)

[Phil] Sky pilot? YES!
[CdM] Lord Who? NO.

Justin Portal Welby?

[NJ] The Lord Archbishop? YES!

Well done! Please accept this Shepherd's Crook shaped baton!

pedantry rears my ugly head

He's not, technically, a life peer, is he? I know ex-Arch B's of C generally are given life peerages, but not until they're ex. I think. I could well be wrong, though :-)

But no applause for my guess? That audience was harsh! Also, not to cavil, but saying "we know about him because of something that happened to him" seems to be dissing someone who rose to the highest possible point on his career path. A bit like saying we know David Cameron or Jack Welch because of something that happened to them (being elected, being appointed by a Board of Directors).

Hmmm.

Yes, I think Sir Alec would have had a few things to say about the ref in that round - I didn't guess earlier because I was sure CdM was right.

Moving on we'll have primarily VEGETABLE with major ANIMAL connections - In fact technically, there are also significant Mineral and Abstract associations as well, but that's not going to help at this stage

Can I eat it?

Can I eat it if Boolbar doesn't?

[Boolbar/CdM] Edible? - NO?

Bigger than a breadbox?

[cfm] > breadbox? - YES

Is the Vegetable part the Animal connection's habitat?

[Raak] Is the Vegetable part the Animal connection's habitat? - YES, you could put it like that (a little ripple)

Is the animal a bird?

Is the animal human?

Is the animal a fish?

Going OK so far

[cfm] avian? - NO
[Raak] Human? - YES
GLogin] Piscine? - NO

A log cabin?

[GL] Log Cabin? - NO *audience is stirring, some applausse heard*

Unique?

A famous home?

Warm

[CdM] just the 1? - YES
[cfm] Famous home? - YES *sustained applause*

Located in Europe?

In the USA?

[GL] Bravo

Well, this is very efficient

[cfm] European? - NO
[Tuj] USian? - YES

Built in the 20th century?

[cfm] C20? - NO

George Washington's home at Mount Vernon?

Is it famous because someone famous lived there?

Does it begin with the initial letter of Pennsylvania?

And the winner is

[Raak] Mount Vernon it is!!
I've just been reading a biography. Interesting that his greatness is as much about when he gave up power as when he wielded it.
Here, have this branch of a cherry tree I've just cut down as a baton.

Ah, so this is why my memory failed to conjure up a vision of a wooden house.

Q: Is the mansion at Mount Vernon built of wood or stone?
A: Mount Vernon is of frame construction, and the sheathing is beveled and covered with a mixture of paint and sand to give the appearance of stone.

Never actually been there, so I just went straight to Wikipedia, which just says 'The mansion is built of wood in neoclassical Georgian architectural style'.

The next is ANIMAL.

Is it unique?

Human?

[Notboolbarjohn] A unique human.

Is the unique human male?

Is this human still alive?

[cfm] Male.
[Boolbar] Alive.

Begins with P?

The odds aren't good on our 4-0 start continuing...

[Tuj] **applause** Yes, I think it would be fair to say so.

Is this unique living male human beginning with P European?

[CdM] Almost certainly European.

Is the answer a title rather than a name?

The next pope?

[NotJohn] Yes!
[CdM] The exact words on the card! Habemus papam! *a puff of white smoke emerges from a cottage in north Wales*

Fastest ever?

Well, yes, that was what I was hinting at, but I didn't want to hog it.
We got that one with 8 guesses, all answered 'Yes'. That must be a record.

[NJ] Well, except for this. And, yes, I knew that you had probably guessed the answer, but I didn't want to let the streak be broken.

All right. A nice easy MINERAL .

Unique?

Cor.

Primarily Rock/stone?

Of course, if the Ghanaian or Canadian cardinal is appointed then we will have to come back and rewrite one of the YESs as a NO)

On/in the Earth?

Unique? Yes. But, oddly enough, also No.
Primarily Rock/stone? Yes. *applause*
On/in the earth? Yes.
Incidentally, there is also an animal connection, but I was unaware of it until I started reading Wikipedia, and I suspect it won't be useful.

Is it smaller than Kylie Minogue?

Begin with 'P' ?

A human construction?

The remains of the Chelyabinsk meteor?

Smaller than Kylie? No.
Begins with P? Yes?
Human construction? No. (*a few members of the audience whisper among themselves about some technicalities, but agree with the conclusion*)
Meteoric remains? No. ( *a few members of the audience applaud the insight of the question*)

A natural geographic feature?

Pyramid of Cheops?

Natural geographic feature? Well, yes and no. The spirit of the question points to Yes, but I am not sure it really qualifies as a geographic feature, and there is some potential quibbling about natural (see "Human construction?").
Pyramid of Cheops? No.

The parallel roads?

You know how it is - you have a thought and just have to throw the guess in even though there's plenty more digging to be done.

Is it south of the Tropic of Cancer?

Parallel roads? No.
South of Tropic of Cancer? No.

In one single geographical location?

The North Pole?

In one location? Strictly speaking, No.
North Pole? No.

Geographic location modified by man?

Geographic location modified by man? I am really having trouble knowing how to answer this. The answer does not refer to a geographic location as such, though it does refer to something associated with a particular geographic location.

I think you just asked this that so you can get revenge on my quibbling about your previous one. :-)

Does it move?

Is this a jewel?

Does it move? Not in general, no.
A jewel? No.
This is one of those topics that i thought would be relatively straightforward when I thought of it, but was a bit more complicated once I did a bit of research. You might find the best route is to think in terms of the geographic location.

Is the associated geographic location in Europe?

In Europe? No.

Is the associated geographic location in Asia?

In Asia? No.

You might also want to revisit the audience applause.

Is the associated geographic location in N America?

Welcome back, Chalky

North America? Yes.

Is the answer on the card the name of the rock/stone?

Thanks CdM.

Is it connected with mining/drilling?

Answer on card name of rock/stone? Yes. *applause*
Connected to mining? No.

Is the geographical bit a mountain?

Yellowstone Park?

Mountain? No. *some laughter*
Yellowstone? No.

Does it have a superficies of less than 1 square mile?

Superficial superficies? Yes.

Is the word begining with P the location of the AOTC?

P-word = location? Yes. *applause* (Technically, actually, the answer is Yes and No, but that would mislead much more than it would help.)

Roxbury Puddingstone?

Roxbury Puddingstone? *googles* No.

In the USA?

In the USA? Yes. I think this is eminently guessable now.

Plymouth Rock?

And I was right!

Plymouth Rock is correct!

Never having been there, I had always assumed it was just this place on the coastline. But no. Turns out it is a smallish rock (though bigger than Kylie!) that has been split into two (not to mention having lots of smaller pieces chipped off it), and both pieces have been moved. One is still in Plymouth, and one is in Brooklyn.

*chips off baton-sized piece and hands it to cfm*

[CdM] *declines contraband baton* You can get arrested for that, you know. :-) Okay, let's try this:
ABSTRACT with animal assocations

Is the animal association a single human?

NotJohn's retired "Im"?

A piece of music?

[INJ] Singularly human? NO. There are multiple associations.
[Tuj] Nominal amputations? NO but *laughs*
[CdM] Hum a few bars? NO

Are the animals referred to by association human?

Is it a well-known saying?

Is there a religious or spiritual connection?

But is it art?

[Phil Human association? YES and NO. There are multiple animal associations and at least one of them is human.
[Boolbar] Just sayin'? NO.
[NJ] Prayer and stuff? NO
[Tuj] Artful? YES *applause*

The visual arts?

A story?

Is the answer on the card a single word?

[NJ] Eyes have it? YES *applause*
[Phi] Tell me a story? YES *fair and equal applause*
[Tuj] One word answer? NO

Related to a TV series?

[Tuj] TV-related? NO

Film/movie related?

[NJ] Wide screen? YES *applause*

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