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AVMA Take 2
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Yes, it's another round of that classic guessing game - Animal, Vegetable, Mineral, Abstract [or any combination thereof]. This effort - '03/'04 should address any queries, but then again, may just serve to confuse and baffle which some might say is the point of the game. Patience, integrity and a decent search engine may be useful ....
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[CdM] YES, a human construct.
[Tuj] NO, not associated with a particular country.
Related to the arts?
[cfm] Depends how you define "the arts", but in a broad sense, YES, related to the arts.
A rock carving?
Ancient cave paintings?
Something that no longer exists?
[Dujon] NO, not a rock carving.
[Raak] NO, not ancient cave paintings neither
[Tuj] NO, it still exists.
Are the animal connection human?
Associated with a craft?
Is the mineral connection metal?
Begins with P?
Ach sorry, low on willpower.
[INJ] YES, human.
[cfm] I have heard it described as a craft, but if you mean handicraft, NO.
[CdM] YES, metal. some applause from the audience
[Tuj] NO, alas, does not begin with P.
A memorial?
A ritual?
Blacksmithing?
Body Piercing?
[Software] NO, not a memorial.
[Raak] NO, not a ritual.
[irach] NO, not blacksmithing.
NO, not body piercing.
Religious significance?
An Action?
A Statue?
[Raak] It can have, but not in any sense that I think is going to help you.
[INJ] In a certain sense yes, but as generally understood NO.
[GL] A statue would be mineral with abstract/animal connections, so NO.
A figurative expression?
Connected with communication?
Connected with personal relationships?
[Raak] YES, in that the words on the card denote the answer in a figurative rather than a literal sense, although the expression is not the answer.
[INJ] YES, again in a broad sense, connected with communication.
[Tuj] It frequently is, but need not be.
A speech act of some sort?
Is the metal connection a specific metal item?
An advertising sign?
[Raak] NO, not speech as such (although it can be involved, but generally isn't).
[Tuj] NO, not a specific item.
[Software] NO, not an advertising sign.
Does it have a dircect connection with computers?
Involves the written word?
[Dujon] NO, no direct connection with computers.
[INJ] NO, does not (directly) involve the written word.
Is the metal in question as single metallic element found in the Periodic Table of Elements (such as iron or copper or lead), as opposed to a combination or alloy (e.g. brass, bronze, gunmetal)?
An astronomical constellation?
[irach] NO, not a specific metal, elemental or alloyed.
[Raak] NO, not an astronomical constellation.
An emotion or state of mind?
Associated with a particular place?
[CdM] NO, not an emotion or a state of mind.
[Tuj] Certain kinds of it are associated with certain regions, but not exclusively, and I shouldn't say the answer as a whole was associated with a given place.
An organisation?
[Raak] NO, not an organisation, although it involves a large number of small organisations.
Freemasonry?
Connected to commerce, business, or economics?
[Raak] NO, not freemasonry.
When I said "large number of small organisations" they wouldn't normally be referred to in those words, I should point out.
[CdM] YES, but the business side isn't generally considered the important bit.
A form of badge denoting membership of an organisation/club and their ilk?
Heavy metal music?
I like that guess!
Makes the sign of the horns
[Dujon] NO, not a badge, because ...
YES! The words on the card are Heavy Metal. At the end of the game, I fling my baton out into the crowd, where it is caught by irach.
I found it quite difficult answering all the "connected with X" questions without being misleading, since of course it can be connected with just about anything, if somebody writes a song about it. Relationships and (in one form or another) religion are frequent themes. The "small organisations" I referred to above would, of course, normally be called "bands" :)
Okay then.... The next one is ABSTRACT with STRONG ANIMAL CONNECTIONS
A unicorn?
Are the animal connections human?
Anarcho-Syndicalism?
Surely, this time.
[Tuj] Not a unicorn.
[CdM] The animal connections are not human.
[ImNotJohn] Rats! Doggone it! No, not this time, either.
Is it more abstract than a rhetorical question?
[Phil] About as abstract, I would expect, although it is not a rhetorical question.
Begins with P?
[Tuj} No "P" in the beginning.
Is it from fiction?
That's the formalities out of the way then.
Are the animal connections rats and dogs?
[Tuj] Not from fdction.
[CdM] One of the animal connections is a dog.
Is it an event?
[Phil] The words on the card do describe an action, if that can be called an "event".
A well-known phrase or saying?
Related to something dogs do?
[ImNotJohn] Yes, a well known phrase.
[cfm] Yes, related to what a dog does (or should I say doesn't do).
Is the word 'bite' on the card?
The dog that didn't bark in the night?
Hair of the dog?
[Dujon] The word "bite" is not on the card
[ImNotJohn] See above, therefore, no.
[Software] Not the hair of the dog.
It may behoove one to consider my earlier response that one of the animal connections is a dog.
Raining cats and dogs?
[Chalky] No, no felines involved.
Is/are the other animal connection/s mammals?
Yes, the other animal connection is mammalian.
Let the dog see the rabbit?
Is the other animal a cat?
[ImNotJohn] No, no rabbits involved.
[Tuj] As indicated in my response to Chalky, above, there are no felines (including domesticated cats) involved.
"That dog won't hunt"?
"dog eat dog"
Maybe the other connection is a dog as well.
[cfm] Not "That dog won't hunt".
[Raak] Not "dog eat dog"; the other animal connection is not the dog, Canis lupus familiaris. Nevertheless, some dogged audience members do sit up and take notice.
Proverbs 26:11?
[Raak] No, not Biblically proverbial.
A wolf in sheep's clothing?
Does the word "dog" appear on the card?
Does it involve the idea of hunting?
A dog's dinner?
The dog's bollocks?
Well someone had to say it ...
[Phil] Not a wolf in sheep's clothing... (yet a few audience members give faint nods of appreciation)
[CdM} The word "dog" does indeed appear on the card.
[ImNotJohn] No, the words on the card do not involve the idea of hunting, yet there is a tangential connection.
[Raak] Not a dog's dinner.
[Chalky] No bollocks involved.
dog and pony show?
Time for a recap, perhaps - The answer is a well-known phrase that contains the word "dog'; does not refer to cannibalistic dogs; there is at least one other mammalian animal connection, non-human, which is not the domesticated dog Canis lupus familiaris or rabbits, or any Felidae; the phrase is non-Biblical; perhaps tangentially connected to hunting, and that the phrase "wolf in sheep's clothing" evoked a couple of faint nods of appreciation, as though tracking in the right direction.
[cfm]Not a dog and pony show.
A dog in the manger?
[Raak] Not a dog in the manger. (Remember, the phrase has another mammalian non-human animal connection in addition to "dog").
The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog?
Related to Sheepdogs/shepherding?
[ImNotJohn] Not related to sheepdogs/shepherding.
[cfm] The pangram, "The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog" it is! A baton long enough to pole vault over the said lazy dog is duly handed off to cfm.
*lands, none too gracefully*
So let's try this:
MINERAL WITH ABSTRACT AND HUMAN CONNECTIONS
A diamond in the rough?
[irach] No hole in one, sorry. :-)
Hmmmm. None too gracefully indeed. Let's make that abstract with animal connections, which we now know are human. :-)
The Anarcho-syndicalist Society's crazy golf runners-up cup?
[cfm] Can you just clarify - is it still Mineral (with A & A) or is it just Abstract with Animal.
Begins with P?
I had to ask it this time, as it's one of those questions that works regardless of the confusion being cleared up.
Is the human connection animal?
A single individual?
Meaning, the mineral thing, rather than its connections.
[INJ] ASS cup? Nope. But Abstract and Animal, yes.
[Tuj] Next time, I Promise.
[CdM] *laughs*
[Raak] Yes. One individual.
Mineral = metal?
Owned by a specific person?
Is it extremely valuable?
[Software] To the best of my knowledge, sometimes yes, sometimes no.
[Tuj] Multiple owners. *Audience raises a collective eyebrow*
[Raak] Valuable, yes. Extremely? Depends on how much you have in your checking account, I suppose. But it ain't cheap.
I'm still not clear on your answer to INJ. This is MINERAL with ABSTRACT and ANIMAL connections; is that right?
An item of jewellery?
[CdM] So sorry. That is correct. Mineral with abstract and animal connections.
[Raak] To the best of my knowledge, no. *A few murmurs from the audience* *
Some sort of regalia?
Are computer/'phone screens pertinent to the answer?
Smaller than a toaster?
[Raak] No, nothing royal about it
[Dujon] [No, not at all.
[CdM] i am guessing yes, once in a rare while. But not usually.
I need another clarification. Raak asked if the mineral thing was a single individual, which I took to mean he was asking if it was unique, with only one instance in the world. You replied Yes. Am I misunderstanding your answer to Raak's question?
Invented in the last 200 years?
I would love to see video footage of the audience's response to my previous.
Related to arms or militaria?
[CdM] Sorry for the confusion. No, the mineral thing is not a single item. The animal connection is to a single individual. And thank you for clarifying.
[Tuj] Yes, invented in the last 200 years.
[INJ] No, not related to militaria.
Is the "single individual" the inventor of the item?
[Jim] Yes, the single individual invented the words on the card.
A communication device?
[Raak] No, not a communication device.
Is the inventor still alive?
Is the name of the inventor on the card?
[jim] No, the inventor is dead.
[INJ] Yes, the inventor's name is on the card.
Related to medicine?
Associated with a particular country?
[Raak] No, nothing medicinal. Though it might make you feel good to encounter it. :-)
[Tuj] Yes -- but not strongly so. I would guess that many people know the thing on the card but don't make that association.
Do you think that the typical morniverser owns one of these?
A household article?
[CdM] No, the average morniverser probably does not have one stashed out back.
[Raak]Yes, often but not always.
Functional as opposed to decorative?
[CdM] No, not functional as opposed to decorative.
You may wish to rephrase your question(s).
Is the first of these reputed to have been made for Tsar Alexander III?
[Dujon] No. We're not making omelettes. :-) Fun guess, though.
A timepiece of some sort?
[INJ] Yes, sometimes. I know of at least one instance.
Tiffany glass/window?
[irach] Yes! The words on the card are indeed Tiffany glass. *very carefully hands off a fabulous opalescent baton (signed!) to irach Don't drop it. :-)
Ooofff! It's tough lugging that glass baton all the way from 57th and Fifth Avenue after a heavy breakfast at Tiffany's ... so let me pause and consider the next puzzle... ah, yes...ABSTRACT with a MINERAL connection.
A Tiffany design?
[Raak] Not a Tiffany design.
The title of somthing?
Fictional object(s)?
Is the mineral natural?
[cfm] Not a title per se, but has been used as a title on occasion.
[GLogin] Not fictional object(s).
[Dujon] The mineral component is made up of natural elements.
...Upon capitulation, there is also an element/aspect of "Animal", without which the overall abstract element would be incomplete.
A human invention?
[Tuj] I guess the words on the card qualify as "a human invention".
Begins with P?
...more straightforwardly.
[Tuj] If you ignore an indefinite article in the beginning, yes it does in fact begin with "P".
Related to the arts?
[ImNotJohn] Unrelated to the arts.
Paperweight?
A geographical feature?
Does the mineral connection appear as one or more of the words on the card?
[Software] Not a paperweight.
[Raak] Not a geographic feature.
[cfm] The mineral connection is one of the words on the card.
Is the mineral metal?
Picking up on the answer to Dujon
[ImNotJohn] Yes, the mineral component is metallic.
Is it gold?
[Raak] Not gold.
A precious metal?
[ImNotJohn] Not a precious metal.
Is the metal connection the word on the card that begins with P?
Any reference to a weapon?
Connected to a particular person or group of people?
Is it an article described in a work of fiction?
[cfm] It is the metal connection word on the card that begins with "P".
[ImNotJohn] Not weaponry related.
[Tuj] Connected to all people.
[Kim] The metallic article itself is often mentioned in numerous works of fiction; yet the words on the cards are not directly related to a work of fiction.
[Hint- A standard question often asked for "abstract" categories has not as yet been asked in this case].
Is it bigger than the concept of a toaster?
Was that the one you meant?
Is it smaller than a hypothetical phonebox?
Related to a state of mind or emotion?
Fictional?
A human concept?
[ImNotJohn] Not the question I was thinking of...nevertheless, the metallic object in question is (considerably) smaller than a toaster.
{GLogin] See response above.
[cfm} Yes, related to a state of mind or emotion! (The snoozing audience awakes!)
[Raak] Not fictional.
[imNotJohn] Yes, a human concept.
Angels dancing on the head of a pin?
[ImNotJohn] No celestials or pins (or needles) involved.
A metaphorical expression?
[Raak] Not quite metaphorical, but yes, a relatively commonly used expression (with a metallic connection,related to a state of mind or emotion).
A penny for your thoughts?
[cfm] The expression, "A penny for your thoughts", it is! A newly minted penny is handed over to cfm to reward this mental acuity.
Oh. Er...thank you, Irach. I will try not to spend it all in one place.
So this one is ANIMAL with ANIMAL and ABSTRACT connections
Human?
[CdM] No, not human.
Also, upon further reflection, I think I must revise to say this one is ANIMAL and VEGETABLE with ANIMAL and ABSTRACT connections.
Toad-in-the-hole?
[Raak] No, no sausages involved.
Is at least one of the animal connections canine?
Begins with P?
[irach] No, no pups involved in either case.
[Tuj] No. And now I recall that I did promise. Ooops. :-(
Are either of the animals mammals?
Yes. Both are mammmals
Are either of the mammals ruminants?
Are either of the animals commonly eaten by humans?
*audience applauds politely*
[irach] Yes, one of the mammals is frequently ruminant.
[CdM] Yes, one of the mammals is commonly eaten by humans.
Is this the name of a dish?
Hamburger?
[Raak] No, no culinary connection
[Software] No, see above.
Is the abstract connection religious?
[Raak] No, not religious.
Does the word 'Cow', 'Cattle' 'Beef' or 'Steak' appear on the card?
[INJ] No, none of those words appear on the card.
Counting sheep jumping over a wooden stile/fence?
Is the animal alive, at least when it's being the thing on the card?
[irach] No (sheepishly).
[Raak] Depends which animal. No, the primary animal element is not alive when it's being the thing on the card. Yes, the animal connection is alive.
Is the non-ruminant mammal in question typically a predator of the ruminant one?
[irach] Yes, the non-ruminant animal often eats the ruminant animal.
Is the "non-ruminant" mammal that eats the ruminant mammal human?
Flogging a dead horse?
[irach] Yes! That non-ruminant mammal is human.
[Raak] No, not that common expression. Nor (hint) any other common expression.
Is the vegetable wood?
Is the human component a specific individual, or a class/group of person? [cfm] There is a little confusion here, because in the very start, in response to the first question you indicated the animal was not human. Did you change the original "words on the card" after capitulation?
[Raak] Yes. There is often a wood component.
[irach] The words on the card have not changed. The thing named on the card is not human. The animal connection noted from the beginning is human. Does that clarify?
No, not a specific individual nor a specific class or group of humans. However, in the sense that the humans are connected to the thing named on the card, they are involved in the same activity.
Is the vegetable paper?
[Raak]No. Paper is not involved. When there is a vegetable component, I believe it is safe to assume the vegetable is wood.
Is the the "primary animal element which is not alive when it's being the thing on the card" leather?
[irach] Yes, the element is leather. Simply stated :-)
A drum?
[Raak] No, not a drum. *a few rhythmic claps from the audience*
Some other sound-making instrument?
Tamborine?
[Raak] No. Not a sound making instrument.
[Software] No. Not a tambourine. *more claps and murmurs from the audience*
Is the leather stretched over a wooden frame?
Connected with dancing?
[Raak] No, the leather is not framed.
[Dujon] Yes, connected with dancing. *there is some dancing in the aisles*
Dancing shoes?
[Raak] No, that is not the answer. But yes, the thing named on the card could be characterized as a dancing shoe.
Surely not a leather clog, eee by gum?
[Software] No, not a leather clog.
Leather spats?
[irach] No, not spats. But you and Software and Raak might want to....er...you know....put your feet...wait...i mean...heads together.
Dancing spats?
Does the answer have another meaning which relates, for instance, to the movement of water?
Drum mallets?
[GL] No, not dancing spats.
[Dujon] No, there is no other meaning to the words on the card.
[Software] No, not drum mallets.
Here's what we know for sure -- that the words on the card represent an item made of leather and wood. The animal connection is human. The item(s) are connected with dancing and could even be characterized as dancing shoes. Drums and tambourines drew appreciative reactions from the audience. Do you think it might be helpful to explore some of the abstract connections?
Tap shoes?
Does the abstract term refer to a particular form of dancing, e.g. tap, flamenco, calypso?
[GL] No, not tap shoes.
[irach] Yes--although I am having a little bit of trouble with the word "refer" in your question. The abstract connection(s) call to mind a particular form of dancing, without naming it directly. The words on the card do so, as well.
Blue suede shoes?
[Raak] No. Not blue suede shoes. *audience applauds encouragingly*
Are the words on the card connected with a specific performance piece?
[Raak] No, they are not connected with a specific performance piece. However, they are connected with a specific style of performance piece.
Wooden heeled stiletto shoes for dancing tango?
Is the style specifically associated with one country?
Soft-shoe shuffle?
Reel shoes?
[irach] No, not that kind of shoe. But shoes for dancing is still a valid general concept.
I am not sure if this will be helpful but I think I should add a note that the words on the card name something that may also be constructed from synthetic materials.
[INJ] Yes. Originally, the style of performance piece was strongly associated with one country. Then performers in a second country made a very strong contribution and a second strong association was created.
[Chalky] No, not a soft shoe shuffle.
[Raak] No, not reel shoes.
Ballet shoes?
Bluegrass clog dancing?
[Chalky] No, not ballet shoes.
[irach] No, not bluegrass clog dancing or bluegrass clog dancing shoes. But you are getting warm geographically. :-)
South American?
[Raak] No, not South American.
Is the type of shoe in question generally (or exclusively) worn by a female dancer rather than a male one?
[irach] Yes, this particular style of footwear was far more likely to be worn by female dancers. I wouldn't swear to exclusively, though.
A form of dancing in the United States?
[irach] Yes, though not exclusively, the foremost association of the words on the card (and associated abstract concepts) is with the U.S.
Square dancing?
[Raak] No, not square dancing.
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