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AVMA Take 2
help
Yes, it's another round of that classic guessing game - Animal, Vegetable, Mineral, Abstract [or any combination thereof]. This effort - '03/'04 should address any queries, but then again, may just serve to confuse and baffle which some might say is the point of the game. Patience, integrity and a decent search engine may be useful ....
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Human?
[CdM] No, not human.
Also, upon further reflection, I think I must revise to say this one is ANIMAL and VEGETABLE with ANIMAL and ABSTRACT connections.
Toad-in-the-hole?
[Raak] No, no sausages involved.
Is at least one of the animal connections canine?
Begins with P?
[irach] No, no pups involved in either case.
[Tuj] No. And now I recall that I did promise. Ooops. :-(
Are either of the animals mammals?
Yes. Both are mammmals
Are either of the mammals ruminants?
Are either of the animals commonly eaten by humans?
*audience applauds politely*
[irach] Yes, one of the mammals is frequently ruminant.
[CdM] Yes, one of the mammals is commonly eaten by humans.
Is this the name of a dish?
Hamburger?
[Raak] No, no culinary connection
[Software] No, see above.
Is the abstract connection religious?
[Raak] No, not religious.
Does the word 'Cow', 'Cattle' 'Beef' or 'Steak' appear on the card?
[INJ] No, none of those words appear on the card.
Counting sheep jumping over a wooden stile/fence?
Is the animal alive, at least when it's being the thing on the card?
[irach] No (sheepishly).
[Raak] Depends which animal. No, the primary animal element is not alive when it's being the thing on the card. Yes, the animal connection is alive.
Is the non-ruminant mammal in question typically a predator of the ruminant one?
[irach] Yes, the non-ruminant animal often eats the ruminant animal.
Is the "non-ruminant" mammal that eats the ruminant mammal human?
Flogging a dead horse?
[irach] Yes! That non-ruminant mammal is human.
[Raak] No, not that common expression. Nor (hint) any other common expression.
Is the vegetable wood?
Is the human component a specific individual, or a class/group of person? [cfm] There is a little confusion here, because in the very start, in response to the first question you indicated the animal was not human. Did you change the original "words on the card" after capitulation?
[Raak] Yes. There is often a wood component.
[irach] The words on the card have not changed. The thing named on the card is not human. The animal connection noted from the beginning is human. Does that clarify?
No, not a specific individual nor a specific class or group of humans. However, in the sense that the humans are connected to the thing named on the card, they are involved in the same activity.
Is the vegetable paper?
[Raak]No. Paper is not involved. When there is a vegetable component, I believe it is safe to assume the vegetable is wood.
Is the the "primary animal element which is not alive when it's being the thing on the card" leather?
[irach] Yes, the element is leather. Simply stated :-)
A drum?
[Raak] No, not a drum. *a few rhythmic claps from the audience*
Some other sound-making instrument?
Tamborine?
[Raak] No. Not a sound making instrument.
[Software] No. Not a tambourine. *more claps and murmurs from the audience*
Is the leather stretched over a wooden frame?
Connected with dancing?
[Raak] No, the leather is not framed.
[Dujon] Yes, connected with dancing. *there is some dancing in the aisles*
Dancing shoes?
[Raak] No, that is not the answer. But yes, the thing named on the card could be characterized as a dancing shoe.
Surely not a leather clog, eee by gum?
[Software] No, not a leather clog.
Leather spats?
[irach] No, not spats. But you and Software and Raak might want to....er...you know....put your feet...wait...i mean...heads together.
Dancing spats?
Does the answer have another meaning which relates, for instance, to the movement of water?
Drum mallets?
[GL] No, not dancing spats.
[Dujon] No, there is no other meaning to the words on the card.
[Software] No, not drum mallets.
Here's what we know for sure -- that the words on the card represent an item made of leather and wood. The animal connection is human. The item(s) are connected with dancing and could even be characterized as dancing shoes. Drums and tambourines drew appreciative reactions from the audience. Do you think it might be helpful to explore some of the abstract connections?
Tap shoes?
Does the abstract term refer to a particular form of dancing, e.g. tap, flamenco, calypso?
[GL] No, not tap shoes.
[irach] Yes--although I am having a little bit of trouble with the word "refer" in your question. The abstract connection(s) call to mind a particular form of dancing, without naming it directly. The words on the card do so, as well.
Blue suede shoes?
[Raak] No. Not blue suede shoes. *audience applauds encouragingly*
Are the words on the card connected with a specific performance piece?
[Raak] No, they are not connected with a specific performance piece. However, they are connected with a specific style of performance piece.
Wooden heeled stiletto shoes for dancing tango?
Is the style specifically associated with one country?
Soft-shoe shuffle?
Reel shoes?
[irach] No, not that kind of shoe. But shoes for dancing is still a valid general concept.
I am not sure if this will be helpful but I think I should add a note that the words on the card name something that may also be constructed from synthetic materials.
[INJ] Yes. Originally, the style of performance piece was strongly associated with one country. Then performers in a second country made a very strong contribution and a second strong association was created.
[Chalky] No, not a soft shoe shuffle.
[Raak] No, not reel shoes.
Ballet shoes?
Bluegrass clog dancing?
[Chalky] No, not ballet shoes.
[irach] No, not bluegrass clog dancing or bluegrass clog dancing shoes. But you are getting warm geographically. :-)
South American?
[Raak] No, not South American.
Is the type of shoe in question generally (or exclusively) worn by a female dancer rather than a male one?
[irach] Yes, this particular style of footwear was far more likely to be worn by female dancers. I wouldn't swear to exclusively, though.
A form of dancing in the United States?
[irach] Yes, though not exclusively, the foremost association of the words on the card (and associated abstract concepts) is with the U.S.
Square dancing?
[Raak] No, not square dancing.
Can-can?
[irach] No-no, not the can-can (or can-can footwear.)
Flamenco dancing shoes?
Line Dancing?
[Software] No, not Flamenco dancing shoes. I think we covered that earlier.
[GL] No, not line dancing per se, though I believe there have been instances of this type of dance which involved lining up for a set of choreographed steps.
Here's a recap of what we presently know: the words on the card represent a type of footwear worn all but exclusively by women, while dancing in a particular way that is associated with another particular type of performance that is most closely associated with the United States but which also became associated with another country when performers from that country made a very strong contribution. Drums and tambourines drew favorable responses from the audience, which could suggest that what distinguishes the style of performance or dance is its rhythm or beat. You may also wish to consider that the kind of clothing worn on the foot is not always called a shoe. :-)
Footwear connected to belly dancing with drums and tambourines?
[irach] No, not related to belly-dancing.
Connected to salsa/mambo?
[irach] No, not connected to salsa, mambo, cha cha, tango or any other Latin-identified style.
(I'm getting the feeling that the words on the card never made it too far outside of the U.S.)
Related to any sort of African dancing?
[Raak] Yes. There is a strong African American influence/connection and I expect that influence traces back to Africa. *question engenders exuberant applause*
But definitely not clogs or taps?
I've googled this, and that's all I can find.
[Raak] No, not clogs or taps.
*Wonders, should I offer a few suggestions to the players? Is that how this works?*
Is the vegetable (often wood) connection previously referred to part of the footwear, or is it an entirely separate entity related to the words on the card?
[irach] The wood is not a separate thing; it is what the heel of the footwear often is or appears to made from.
I'll try "jazz dancing shoes" although the tambourine connection is rathe remote.
[irach] No, not jazz dancing shoes. The word "shoes" does not appear on the card at all.
pattens?
[Raak] No, not pattens. I had to look that one up; like the words on the card, they are not so much in fashion these days. Come to think, it might help to keep in mind that dancing, music and fashion all change with the times.
sabots?
Running out of synonyms for "clog"...
[Raak] No, not sabots. (Uhmmmm, did I say they were clogs?)
A type of sandal?
[Raak] No, not a sandal. *audience applauds this line of inquiry nonetheless*
A boot?
Stilts or something similar that raises the participant a distance off the ground?
I'm pretty certain this is going to be a subject that would annoy Rosie;-)
[CdM] Yes. A boot. *audience cheers as if its team has just won the world cup*
[INJ] No, not stilts. But yes, I have been expecting the hand of Rosie to come and smite me any moment now. :-)
Buskins?
[Raak] No, not buskins.
Gumboots?
[Chalky] No, not gumboots. *a minor hullabaloo, however, arises from the audience*
Related to Mariachi/zapateado?
Related to cheerleading?
[INJ] No, not related to Mariachi/zapataedo.
[Raak] Yes, I can think of at least one professional cheer leading squad I associate with this footwear. (However, the footwear was originally more connected with the runway than with running backs.) *Texans in the audience nod, approvingly*
Gaucho boots?
[Chalky] No, not gaucho boots.
Sequined cowgirl boots ( a la Dallas Cowboys' cheerleaders? thigh-high, or otherwise?)
Ballet shoes?
[irach] No, not sequined cowboy boots. (but the DCC connection is a good one...)
[software] No, not ballet shoes.
Were these boots in fashion in the second half of the twentieth century?
(picking up on your fashion comment earlier)
[CdM] Yes, originiated in the mid-20th century. *audience members rock in their seats! roll in the aisles!*
Go-go boots?
Not sure why I keep guessing - I have no desire to be in the chair next time round. Guess I'm intrigued ... and if the solution turns out to be ridiculously obscure ... I can then 'do a Rosie' [sans swearage] :-D
[Calky] Hallelujah, yes! *gratefully passes one white patent leather baton to Chalky (while doing the Froog)*
None the wiser
Can't find any reference to these as either dance-specific or made of leather and wood (wikipedia refers to them in purely fashion terms and often/mostly made of plastic - which is what I would have guessed). Can someone point me at a helpful reference. Not annoyed, you understand, I just stopped guessing because I'd explored everything I could given the information available and I'd like to know how I could have got there.
Oh, and:
[INJ] Alas, I didn't check wikipedia before I chose the words on the card. My bad--I will remember to do so should I ever be handed the baton again. I relied on my memory of my first pair of go go boots: they where white patent leather and had a stacked wooden heel. I believe I answered the question about dancing shoes early on by saying the the item on the card could be characterized as a dancing shoe without saying it was a dancing shoe directly; I thought I was giving the best answer possible. Later when I realized that it was limiting everyone's thinking, I tried to draw attention to the fashion connection. I was surprised how few questions focused on the style of music connected with the dancing (particularly after some pretty direct hits and/or hints e.g. American-originated, distinguished by its beat, African American influence, etc.) or (until CdM) inquired whether the shoes were currently or historically popular. Anyway--while I am very glad you are not annoyed, INJ--still I am apologetic. This was a round of Painfully Difficult AVMA. Sorry.
Oh...and
Ah ... Ooo-Kaaaaay
Thanks cfm - don't feel you have to apologise. It's tough in the chair.

I'll have a go ...

ANIMAL, MINERAL & VEGETABLE
Is it unique?
I could have sworn I posted this helpful reference for INJ yesterday, but I guess I must have hit preview instead of stand, or something.
Noah's Ark?
[irach] Surely that would be ANIMAL, ANIMAL, MINERAL, and VEGETABLE?
[CdM] Is it unique? YES
[irach] Noah's Ark? NO :)
Is it extant?
[cfm] I've genuinely learnt a couple of things1 from your question, so no need to apologise.

1. Although it's at least partly my era I didn't know that go-go was actually a style and I didn't know the boots had any descriptive name.

[CdM] Not that helpful a reference to look up in an open office!

Begins with P?
Bad news, I'm back...
[INJ] Extant? YES
[Tuj] P-word? NO
Salty bacon crisps?
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