mc5 - AVMA Take 2

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AVMA Take 2

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Yes, it's another round of that classic guessing game - Animal, Vegetable, Mineral, Abstract [or any combination thereof]. This effort - '03/'04 should address any queries, but then again, may just serve to confuse and baffle which some might say is the point of the game. Patience, integrity and a decent search engine may be useful ....

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Is the vegetable component a potato?

Animal =Human?

Mr. Potato Head?

Edible?

[FGZ*] Yeah, I'm afraid that one makes even me channel Rosie a little bit. It was pretty arcane; I lived in that part of the world for several years and had never heard of them. That could still have been OK if you had been a bit more helpful with your definition and answers, mind you. Part of the problem was that you told us we were looking for an ABSTRACT, but your answer was the people themselves; that had me confused for a while. And there were a few places where you could certainly have had the audience be more helpful. Finally, Raak was definitely on track when he mentioned Indonesia and adat, but you gave no hint at all that he was getting close. I don't mind obscure topics as such, but I think you have got to be willing to let the audience help out more in those cases.

[irach] Earth Apple? - NO
[FGZstar] human? - NO
[Raak] Kartoffelkopf? - NO
[CdM]Edible? - YES

Manufactured?

[Software] Manufactured? - YES or 'Can be', depending on your definition of the question. Shall we say it's 'made'.

A dumpling?

Does the "making" involve a physical cooking process involving heat, such as baking or frying?

This won't take long

[Raak] My leetle dumpling? - NO
[irach] Cooked? - YES

Is it associated with a fesetive occasion?

(festive)

[Raak] Festiveive? - YES *audience chants of 'Easy, Easy*

Mince Pies?

Christmas pudding?

There, that wasn't hard, was it?

[GL] MINCE PIES it is!
Of course, on reflection it's quite hard to get away without some animal (milk in the pastry), but much less so than for pudding or cake, when you're dealing with eggs and butter as well. I was thinking about the presence or absence of suet in the mincemeat.
Now, would you just like to pull one end of this baton?

OK. Keeping it simple. MINERAL

Metal?

Unique?

[INJ] Metal? Partly.
[Tuj] Unique? No.

plastic?

A household object?

[Raak] plastic? No.
[CdM] Household object No.

On reflection I think the answer to INJ question should have been "Mostly" rather than "Partly".

Valuable?

Decorative?

Manufactured?

[CdM] Valuable? Depends on your definition of Valuable.
[cfm?] Decorative? Not originally.
[INJ] Manufactured? Yes.

Heavier than a car?

Antique?

Begins with P?

[Raak] Heavier than a car? Uncertain, but probably not.
[Software] Antique? Yes.
[Tuj] Begins with P? Not on the card, but a less formal description might.

A piece of sculpture?

Is the metal wrought iron?

Ironbridge?

Contains moving parts?

[irach] A piece of sculpture? No.
[Raak] Is the metal wrought iron? Iron, Yes. Wrought, No.
[Software] Ironbridge? No.
[Rosie] Contains moving parts? Y...yes I guess.

Is this a "Heritage" contraption such as pit-gear, steam engine, guillotine etc?

[Rosie] "Heritage" contraption? I'm not sure I'd call it a contraption, but heritage is not an unfair adjective.

Is it a weapon?

[Tuj] Weapon? No.

Is there a large number of these things in the UK?

[Rosie] Are there a large number of these in the UK? Yes.

A skip? (dumpster for our friends across the pond)

Would you be surprised to find one of these indoors?

[Software] A skip? No.
[Tuj] Would you be surprised to find one indoors? Normally I would, Yes (except in a museum), but after the evening I've just had...

A suit of armor?

Is this in the form of a wheel?

[GL] 'A large number' is no different from 'A number' and thus is singular.
G'day, Rosie, and welcome back.

Are these found throughout the world?

[Rosie, GL, Dujon] I was going to agree with Rosie and Dujon here, until I looked it up. Certainly, in my writing to date, I have always treated "a number" as a singular object. But, to my surprise, Merriam-Webster's Concise Dictionary of English Usage has this to say (after noting that "all commentators agree" on essentially this idea):

The rule of thumb for this construction is stated succinctly by Bernstein 1977:
In general, a number takes a plural verb and the number a singular.
Evidence in the Merriam-Webster files shows that the rule of thumb is generally observed. Even when the sentence begins with there, a number of commands the plural verb. {example] An adjective like increasing or growing tends to emphasise the word number in its singularity, and results in rather more mixed usage. [examples] But even in these constructions, the plural verb is the more common.

My inclination would still be to treat Rosie's phrase as contained within standard English usage, but GL is certainly not incorrect; to the contrary, the usage he favours is apparently more standard.

So I learned something today.

Anything to do with transport?

(CdM) French avoids the problem, it seems. Many people would say "Are there large numbers of....." which strictly is rather illogical but I'd probably use it colloquially.
(Dujon) *snarls back* G'day. :-)

[irach] A suit of armor? No.
[Dujon] In the form of a wheel? No.
[CdM] Are these found throughout the world? No. But in more than one country.
[Rosie] Anything to do with transport? No.

Related to a certain religion?

Does it have a picture on it?

Used in construction?

[FGZstar] Religious? No.
[Raak] Does it have a picture on it? No.
[ImNotJohn] Used in construction? No.

Related to communications?

[INJ] Related to communications? YES.

Does it contain a power source?

A phone box?

[Raak] Does it contain a power source? No or not one you'd notice
[Tuj] A phone box? Yes A K6 Red Telephone Box (Mint Condition) to be exact.

Have a baton.

Whoops!

Let's try an ABSTRACT

Does it begin with B?

Is it from a work of fiction?

[CdM] Begins with B? NO!
[INJ] From a work of fiction? NO (though its precise origin is likely unknown)

Is it a well known phrase or saying?

[GL] Phrase or saying? YES!

Related to health?

Bless you?

[Tuj] K6, eh? Sounds very anorak and THG to me

Is it one question per player? Hope not...

[Rosie] Related to health? NO
[Softers] Bless you? THANKS. I mean NO

If not health, then wealth?

Does it contain a number or a numerical connotation?

[Rosie] Wealth? NO
[irach] Numerical? NO

An English saying?

A proverb or adage?

[Softers] English YES, saying NO (depends how you define these words, I suppose. It's certainly more of a phrase, though there are more appropriate terms for it as yet undiscovered)
[INJ] The proverbial? NO

Well, go-blimey?

An epithet?

A euphemism?

A metaphor?

Good guesses! But...

[Softers] Cockney stereotype? NO
[cfm] Epithet? NO
[FGZ*] Euphemism? NO
[GL] Metaphor? NO

A catchphrase?

A cliché?

[Knobbly] Catchphrase? NO
[Raak] Cliché? NO - BUT arguably it is becoming so through notoriety

Business-speak?

Has it been notably used in public life recently?

Is it a sound bite?

"This is no time for sound bites. I feel the hand of history upon me"

Related to information technology?

The audience awakes

[INJ] Business-speak? NO *some audience laughter, followed by a pause and a second bout of laughter which rapidly turns into "shh"-ing*
[Raak] Notably used? NO - not one use anyway, more a groundswell of ubiquity
[GL] Soundbite? NO
[cfm] IT-related? YES *audience applause; a few sounds of dissatisfaction*

Related to "social media"?

is it an acronym?

Penny dropping!

[irach] YES, I suppose so! *audience begins to clap*
[cfm] An acronym? YES *standing ovation*

LOL?

Ding ding ding!

[cfm] lol? YES!

Hope I didn't give too many clues, I'd got worried it'd be too hard... Congrats and good luck cfm!

[Tuj] Thank you. If my previous effort at twirling the baton is any indication, I will need it.
This one is animal, vegetable and mineral. And it has heavy abstract associations.

Begins with P?

[cfm] Don't worry, it gets easier the more you do it. It's taken me a very long time to find that out and take the plunge myself ;)

A form of paint?

[The hot seat] I try very hard not to win. My one and only stint in the seat which you now occupy was back in the days of yore. It was hard work. Good luck.

[Tuj] 'Fraid NOt. Try another letter.
[Dujon]Interesting! But NO.

The natural world?

Trying for a hole in one.

[Rosie] Naturally, NO.

The game of AVMA itself?

Unique?

The Universe?

Well, if you really want me to...

Begins with M?

Is the animal component human?

Is any of it edible?

[irach] Self-referential? NO
[INJ] One of a kind? NO
[Tuj] Twenty four more to go. NO
[CDM] We, the people? Hmmm. *audience collectively leans forward in seats* A qualified YES to that. Most frequently but not always. And never entirely.
[Raak] Culinarily significant? I suppose it is not beyond the realm of possibility. But it would definitely be frowned upon. (See animal component above.)

Anything to do with farming?

Family?

Geography?

[Rosie] Reaping and sowing? NO
{FGZsar]Family? *applause ripple ensues* YES as it relates to the abstract element.
[GL] A particular place? NO.

Chimpanzees involved?

Evolution?

[Rosie] Too much monkey business? MAYBE. I've no first hand knowledge that chimps are involved. But it is not out of the realm of possibility.
[FGZstar]More monkey business? NO

Is the vegetable component largely wood?

[CdM] Vegetable recipe? Typically some wood is involved. But not largely wood, NO.

Seasonal significance?

Connected to entertainment?

[Raak] Changes like the weather? NO
[CdM] Applause worthy? NO

One man and his dog, who went to mow a meadow?

Connected to a specific country or culture?

We are not getting very far here ...

Would you be surprised to find one of these indoors?

A zoo?

[Raak] *audience is surprised and sounds delighted* YES, there is an association with mowing.
[CdM] NO. Consider asking the opposite question.
[Tuj] NO, I would not be surprised. Some of these or parts of these may be found indoors.
[Rosie] NO.

Connected with sport?

*considered asking the opposite question -- but decided against it*

[CdM] Do you also eschew maps when you are lost? :-) NO.

Is the connection with mowing a figurative one?

[Raak] NO. It is literal.

Is the mowing connection due to some use of the product obtained (grass, straw, or something similar)?

[CdM] NO. The mowing is an end, not a means.

Are other activities equally connected?

Just a reminder to other players that while this is apparently linked to mowing it is not linked to geography or farming. (So the mowing is not on the ground and the mown items are not collected for sale or agriculture).

A haircut?

[Gusset Login] YES. Other activities are equally connected.
But perhaps I need to clarify my answer to the geography inquiry -- or at least your explanation of my answer, which may be misleading. It is not necessarily connected with a particular place (country, city, etc.) nor with a specific geographic feature (mountain, river, border.) I hope that helps.
[FGZStar] Tonsorial connection? NO.

A level playing field?

Would you advise us to keep pursuing the mowing link (or is it too peripheral)?

[Raak] *audience, which this evening appreciates irony, laughs* Metaphorically speaking I suppose, YES. But this thing is not a metaphor.
[CdM] YES, I do so advise.

A cricket pitch?

[Raak] NO. Not connected to sports.

A garden of some kind?

Was this thing invented?

[Rosie] Flowers & stuff? YES at times.
[Tuj] Conceived and executed? YES

A maze?

A tourist attraction?

[Raak] Amazingly, NO
[Rosie] Some are, YES

A park?

Is there a lawn involved?

[Software] NO, not recreational.
[Raak] YES, see mowing above.

Ok then, is it a lawn, and nothing but a lawn?

Is the word "garden" on the card?

A botanical garden?

[Raak] NO, the lawn is not the point.
[Tuj] NO, that word is not on the card.
[FGZstar]NO, the garden is not the point.

A monument?

[Software] A qualified YES. "Monument" is a related concept.

A cemetery?

Is it typically owned by one person?

[CdM] Cracking guess!

[CdM] DEAD right.
I believe this belongs to you?
*hands baton*

*inspects baton cautiously*
Um. Are batons usually this white? And, um, do they usually have these strange shaped bulges at each end?

This next one is MINERAL

Is the mineral metallic?

Begins with P?

[CdM] Told you it was a good guess!

Is the thing composed a single chemical element?

A manufactured object?

Metallic? No.
Begins with P? Of course it does.
Unielementary? No.
Manufactured object? That would be an odd phrase to use (neither word is really quite right), but Yes is certainly a better answer than No.

Oh, it is actually possible that this also has a minor vegetable component (I don't know for sure), but that is more likely to confuse you than help you. So forget I said it, OK?

Stone?

Stone? *smattering of applause* In part, Yes.

Does this not-exactly-an-object commonly exist/occur in the present day?

Unique?

A plinth?

A Pilaster?

A residue of a mining activity?

Does it commonly exist today? It exists today, but you can't say that it exists "commonly" because...
Unique? Yes.
Result of kissing flogth? No.
Pilaster? No.
Slag heap? No.

The result of human labours?

Men at Work? Yes.

A work of art?

A building?

Is it in Europe?

Is it in Asia?

Work of Art? *hollow laughter from the more cynical members of the audience*. No.
A building? No.
In Europe? Yes.
In Asia? No.

Another technical clarification and minor clue. The answer on the card is a single word beginning with P (usually preceded by a definite article). However, a slightly more formal/precise answer is two words, of which the second is the word on the card. I can also think of a more informal answer that I would accept; this coincidentally begins with P but does not include the word on the card.

A work of civil engineering?

Civilly engineered? Yes.

Generally regarded as an eyesore?

Site for sore eyes? That's probably a bit too strong. But you'd have to hunt pretty hard to find someone who would call it beautiful.

Portsmouth?

I must have my little joke. Please ignore.

Is it in the UK?

A work of engineered traffic circulation?

I'd say "Magic Roundabout" but I can't get a P into that.

Porstsmouth? No.
In the UK? No.
Traffic circulation? Yes. *applause*

The Périphérique or Boulevard Périphérique in Paris?

*standing ovation* Yes! It is indeed the Périphérique. An impressive leap, there.

So, irach, here is the baton ... now you just have to run around the BP once, and then you can set your next clue.

Merci beaucoup, mon ami!. Carrying the baton is a welcome change from my having to carry around le plume de ma tante all this time. I was helped, perhaps, by having browsed through a coolection of pictures of my 2008 trip to Paris just two days ago.

Anyhow, the next one is ANIMAL wth a strong VEGETABLE connection/connotation.

Sylvan ursine defaecation?

Is the animal component human?

[Rosie] No bear scat - sylvan or rural or urban.
[cfm] Yes, the animal component is human.

Alan Titchmarsh?

Is the human currently alive?

Begins with P?

Panda?

Single human or a group of humans?

[Cdm] Not Titchmarch.
[INJ]Does not refer to a single human.
[Tuj] Nope. No "P" at the beginning.
[Software] Not a panda.
[cfm] Pertains to a large group of humans.

Vegitarians?

Are these people all found in one country?

Connected with agriculture?

Are these people defined by their job?

[Software] Good guess, but no. The persons in question could be vegetarians, vegans, carnivores, omnivorous.
[Tuj] The words on the card pertain to some people ubiquitously distributed among the human race worldwide.
[INJ] Not connected to agriculture.
[Rosie] Not connected to agriculture.

[Rosie] (sorry) No, the persons in question are not defined by their job. [Clue] The words on the card pertain to a common characteristic of the persons involved.

People who can't stand Brussels Sprouts?

I believe there is a genetic component to this.

[INJ] Nothing to do with Brussels Sprouts or any other Brassica species.

Florists?

[Software] Not florists.

Anything to do with an allergy?

Okay--so there are two or more words on the card. Are all of the words required to identify the group?

Is the vegetable connection to a particular vegetable?

People who use walking sticks?

[Raak] Not an allergy.
[cfm] There are two words on the card. The answer is not an identifier of the group itself, but a particular characteristic possessed by all members of that group.
[CdM] Yes, the vegetable reference is to a particular species in the vegetable kingdom.
[Chalky] Not users of walking sticks, (or users of wooden crutches, or members of the Long John Silver Admiration Society with wood peg legs, or of the Geoorge Washington Emulation Society with wooden false teeth for that matter either).

Cauliflower ears?

You know how it is, you get an idea and either ask it directly or give it away for someone else

[INJ] Ruled out by the Brassica comment, I fear.

[INJ] Nope, due to to the Brassica comment as CdM indicates. However, the audience sits up in rapt attention at the nature of the response, and a few of them even applaud at the turn of events.

Is the characteristic acquired as the result of some activity on the part of such people?

Do people acquire the characteristic bty choice?

{Rosie] No. It is not acquired as a result of any activity on the parts of such people.
[cfm] No. Not that I know of.

Does the answer relate to an association of a body part to a vegetable?

Is the vegetable part a metaphor?

[INJ] Yes, it does relate to a body part with a vegetable kingdom association
[Raak] I guess one could refer to the association as metaphoric.

Is the vegetable a fruit?

That question just feels wrong.

Is the body part above the neck?

[GLogin] Yes, the vegetable is a fruit. (The audience goes bananas)
[CdM] Yes, the body part is in the general vicinity above the neckline.

Apple cheeks?

[Rosie] Very close, but no.

In additional clarification to my answer to CdM's last question, the body part is located above a typical or conventional garment neckline (perhaps not a turtleneck), and may therefore be inclusive of the neck itself.

Is the answer, in part, related to a particular tuber ?

The Adam's apple?

Well I don't think there's any point in guessing further.

[Dujon} Not a tuber.
{Raak}An Adam's apple its is! A banana in lieu of a baton is duly handed over.

The next is MINERAL.

Stone?

Unique?

Begins with P?

Suit of armour ?

[INJ] Not stone.
[GL] Not unique.
[Tuj] Not P-initial.
[irach] Not a suit of armour.

Nutritionally significant?

Would it fit in a postbox?

Consists of an alloy?

[cfm] Not nutritive.
[Tuj] Not puttable into a postbox.
[Dujon] The first yes! It consists of an alloy. [INJ] And on Googling to check that, I see that it can also be partly of stone, but is never wholly.

Brass?

Bronze

[Rosie] Not brass.
[irach] Not bronze.

Invar?

Stainless steel?

[GL] Not invar.
[Rosie] *pause fo google* Sometimes made from stainless steel.
BTW, "Alloy" is metallurgically correct, as far as I can see from Wikipedia etc., but possibly just a little misleading to anyone who isn't a metallurgist or industrial chemist (ret'd).

Is it utilitarian?

[cfm] Yes, utilitarian.

Is the 'alloy' naturally occuring (even though it might also be manufactured)?

[Dujon] Not naturally occurring.

A utensil?

A saucepan?

(Raak) I'm not a metallurgist but I'd say an alloy is any metallic mixture in which the minor component is metallic and deliberately added or not removed. So ordinary steel, minor component carbon, no, railway lines, 1% manganese, yes, and saucepans, duralumin (aluminium + a few percent copper) yes.

is the useful object commonly used in the present day?

[irach] Not a utensil.
[Rosie] Not a saucepan. According to the web, despite its elemental name, iron in all its engineering uses is an alloy with carbon and possibly other components. So that's what I went with.
[cfm] Used in the present day.

Does it sometimes have non-metallic parts as well?

[irach] Yes, see earlier answer "partly of stone".

Bigger than a toaster?

Used indoors?

(irach) It probably is a toaster.

[irach] Bigger than a toaster.
[Rosie] Not used indoors.

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