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AVMA Take 2
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Yes, it's another round of that classic guessing game - Animal, Vegetable, Mineral, Abstract [or any combination thereof]. This effort - '03/'04 should address any queries, but then again, may just serve to confuse and baffle which some might say is the point of the game. Patience, integrity and a decent search engine may be useful ....
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Generally regarded as an eyesore?
Site for sore eyes? That's probably a bit too strong. But you'd have to hunt pretty hard to find someone who would call it beautiful.
Portsmouth?
I must have my little joke. Please ignore.
Is it in the UK?
A work of engineered traffic circulation?
I'd say "Magic Roundabout" but I can't get a P into that.
Porstsmouth? No.
In the UK? No.
Traffic circulation? Yes. *applause*
The Périphérique or Boulevard Périphérique in Paris?
*standing ovation* Yes! It is indeed the Périphérique. An impressive leap, there.


So, irach, here is the baton ... now you just have to run around the BP once, and then you can set your next clue.
Merci beaucoup, mon ami!. Carrying the baton is a welcome change from my having to carry around le plume de ma tante all this time. I was helped, perhaps, by having browsed through a coolection of pictures of my 2008 trip to Paris just two days ago.

Anyhow, the next one is ANIMAL wth a strong VEGETABLE connection/connotation.
Sylvan ursine defaecation?
Is the animal component human?
[Rosie] No bear scat - sylvan or rural or urban.
[cfm] Yes, the animal component is human.
Alan Titchmarsh?
Is the human currently alive?
Begins with P?
Panda?
Single human or a group of humans?
[Cdm] Not Titchmarch.
[INJ]Does not refer to a single human.
[Tuj] Nope. No "P" at the beginning.
[Software] Not a panda.
[cfm] Pertains to a large group of humans.
Vegitarians?
Are these people all found in one country?
Connected with agriculture?
Are these people defined by their job?
[Software] Good guess, but no. The persons in question could be vegetarians, vegans, carnivores, omnivorous.
[Tuj] The words on the card pertain to some people ubiquitously distributed among the human race worldwide.
[INJ] Not connected to agriculture.
[Rosie] Not connected to agriculture.
[Rosie] (sorry) No, the persons in question are not defined by their job. [Clue] The words on the card pertain to a common characteristic of the persons involved.
People who can't stand Brussels Sprouts?
I believe there is a genetic component to this.
[INJ] Nothing to do with Brussels Sprouts or any other Brassica species.
Florists?
[Software] Not florists.
Anything to do with an allergy?
Okay--so there are two or more words on the card. Are all of the words required to identify the group?
Is the vegetable connection to a particular vegetable?
People who use walking sticks?
[Raak] Not an allergy.
[cfm] There are two words on the card. The answer is not an identifier of the group itself, but a particular characteristic possessed by all members of that group.
[CdM] Yes, the vegetable reference is to a particular species in the vegetable kingdom.
[Chalky] Not users of walking sticks, (or users of wooden crutches, or members of the Long John Silver Admiration Society with wood peg legs, or of the Geoorge Washington Emulation Society with wooden false teeth for that matter either).
Cauliflower ears?
You know how it is, you get an idea and either ask it directly or give it away for someone else
[INJ] Ruled out by the Brassica comment, I fear.
[INJ] Nope, due to to the Brassica comment as CdM indicates. However, the audience sits up in rapt attention at the nature of the response, and a few of them even applaud at the turn of events.
Is the characteristic acquired as the result of some activity on the part of such people?
Do people acquire the characteristic bty choice?
{Rosie] No. It is not acquired as a result of any activity on the parts of such people.
[cfm] No. Not that I know of.
Does the answer relate to an association of a body part to a vegetable?
Is the vegetable part a metaphor?
[INJ] Yes, it does relate to a body part with a vegetable kingdom association
[Raak] I guess one could refer to the association as metaphoric.
Is the vegetable a fruit?
That question just feels wrong.
Is the body part above the neck?
[GLogin] Yes, the vegetable is a fruit. (The audience goes bananas)
[CdM] Yes, the body part is in the general vicinity above the neckline.
Apple cheeks?
[Rosie] Very close, but no.
In additional clarification to my answer to CdM's last question, the body part is located above a typical or conventional garment neckline (perhaps not a turtleneck), and may therefore be inclusive of the neck itself.
Is the answer, in part, related to a particular tuber ?
The Adam's apple?
Well I don't think there's any point in guessing further.
[Dujon} Not a tuber.
{Raak}An Adam's apple its is! A banana in lieu of a baton is duly handed over.
The next is MINERAL.
Stone?
Unique?
Begins with P?
Suit of armour ?
[INJ] Not stone.
[GL] Not unique.
[Tuj] Not P-initial.
[irach] Not a suit of armour.
Nutritionally significant?
Would it fit in a postbox?
Consists of an alloy?
[cfm] Not nutritive.
[Tuj] Not puttable into a postbox.
[Dujon] The first yes! It consists of an alloy. [INJ] And on Googling to check that, I see that it can also be partly of stone, but is never wholly.
Brass?
Bronze
[Rosie] Not brass.
[irach] Not bronze.
Invar?
Stainless steel?
[GL] Not invar.
[Rosie] *pause fo google* Sometimes made from stainless steel.
BTW, "Alloy" is metallurgically correct, as far as I can see from Wikipedia etc., but possibly just a little misleading to anyone who isn't a metallurgist or industrial chemist (ret'd).
Is it utilitarian?
[cfm] Yes, utilitarian.
Is the 'alloy' naturally occuring (even though it might also be manufactured)?
[Dujon] Not naturally occurring.
A utensil?
A saucepan?
(Raak) I'm not a metallurgist but I'd say an alloy is any metallic mixture in which the minor component is metallic and deliberately added or not removed. So ordinary steel, minor component carbon, no, railway lines, 1% manganese, yes, and saucepans, duralumin (aluminium + a few percent copper) yes.
is the useful object commonly used in the present day?
[irach] Not a utensil.
[Rosie] Not a saucepan. According to the web, despite its elemental name, iron in all its engineering uses is an alloy with carbon and possibly other components. So that's what I went with.
[cfm] Used in the present day.
Does it sometimes have non-metallic parts as well?
[irach] Yes, see earlier answer "partly of stone".
Bigger than a toaster?
Used indoors?
(irach) It probably is a toaster.
[irach] Bigger than a toaster.
[Rosie] Not used indoors.
Agricultural connection?
[cfm] Not agricultural.
Connected with transport?
[INJ] Not connected with transport.
Connected with recreation?
[cfm] Not connected with recreation.
Currently batting 16 no to 4 yes and 2 partly.
Connected to telecommunications?
[irach] Not connected to telecoms.
Static?
Once it has been placed in its functional position, that is.
[INJ] Um...mostly static.
A piece of road "furniture"?
Static until someone drives into it.
Lamp post?
[Rosie] *applause* Yes, it is road furniture.
[irach] Not a lamp post.
Is this normally shaped in the form of a lens?
A lamp-post?
A Lamp Post?
Oh-Oh, Have we hit a 'lamp-post' loop?


Hang on, I think I can see the problem.
Pass me that Birmingham screwdriver.
*Clannggg!*

A post box?
There, that's better.
[Dujon] Not lenticular.
[Rosie,INJ] Not a lamp post, a lamp-post, or a Lamp Post. Nor even a lamppost.
[INJ] Not a post box.
a fire hydrant?
[cfm] Not a fire hydrant.
Garbage dumpster?
Bollards?
[irach] Not a dumpster.
[GL] Not a bollard.
A Bus Stop pole?
[irach] Not a bus stop pole.

More general questions might be more helpful.

Related to the energy industry?
If not a lamp-post, then a lamp-post?
Oh dear me, more haste less speed.
On the pavement, as opposed to in the road?
[Rosie] Could be in the pavement or the road.
[cfm] Not related to the energy industry.
[Rosie] Not related to lighting fixtures.
Manhole cover?
[irach] **CLANGGGGG** It's a manhole cover. *Peers down hole in ground* irach? irach?
Phew... Glad to ge out of that hole.... The next one is ABSTRACT with VEGETABLE AND MINERAL AND (STRONG).
Begins with P?
(STRONG) as in Strong Animal Connections?
Fictional?
[Tuj] Does does not begin with "P". Don't know what happened...Should have read ABSTRACT with VEGETABLE AND MINERAL AND (STRONG) ANIMAL CONNECTIONS.
[GLogin] Yes, fictional, I guess.
Connected with food?
[INJ] Parts (but not all) of the vegetable and animal connections are related to food.
Is it festive?
[Tuj] Yes, festive.
Connected with Christmas?
[Raak] Yes, connected to Christmas.
Related to snowmen?
Anything to do with stables?
[GLogin] No snowmen.
[Dujon] No, not really. Maybe a very peripheral connection to stables, but the best answer is no.
Santa's sleigh?
Twelve Days of Christmas?
[Raak] Not the Santa sleigh.
[cfm] The "Twelve Days of Christmas" it is! Not only is a baton handed off to you, but because my true love and I have split up, and I have no need for them, I will also hand over Twelve drummers drumming, Eleven pipers piping, Ten lords a-leaping, Nine ladies dancing, Eight maids a-milking, Seven swans a-swimming, Six geese a-laying, Five golden rings, Four calling birds, Three French hens, Two turtle doves, and a partridge in a pear tree!
[irach] Oh my my, thank you. I am overwhelmed by your generosity. Curiously, was the tangential connection to stables related to the maids-a-milking? Next we have something

ANIMAL with ABSTRACT CONNECTIONS

[cfm] Yes, the very periperally, tangential possible connection to stables was the "maids-a-milking".
"Rudolph, the Red Nosed Reindeer"?
Is the animal human?
[irach] NO, not poor Rudolph.
[INJ] YES, the animal connection is human.
Christmassy?
Human fictional?
[Raak] NO, nothing particularly festive about it.
[Rosie] NO, not fictional.
A specific, named individual, or a type/class of person such as a "Member of Parliament"?
Linked to a particular country or culture?
[irach] Two questions posed there, I think. NO, not one named individual. YES membership is a relevant idea.
[CdM] Hmmmmm. Very challenging to answer that one. But I think the best answer is YES, originally.
Anything to do with sport?
An ethnic group?
Connected with an occupation?
Are there more than a million members of this group alive today?
Related to religion?
[Rosie]NO, unrelated to sport.
[Raak] NO, ethincity is unimportant
[INJ] YES, related to an occupation! *audience re-engages, claps*
[CdM] NO, no million alive today.
[Tuj] NO, secular in nature.
Did more people practise this occupation in the past than nowadays?
[Raak] NO, the related occupation is more common now.
Did the occupation exist 100 years ago?
Are there more than a hundred members of this group alive today?
Tattoo artists?
[Raak] YES, the related occupation existed.
[CdM] NO, there are not 100 members alive.
Are members of this group generally viewed favourably?
Repeating my above question....Tattoo artists?
[Rosie] YES, they are well regarded.
[irach] So sorry to have overlooked your question. NO, not tattoo artists.
Are they involved in any of the fine arts?
The Beatles?
[irach] YES. They are.
[CdM] NO. More than four in the group--I'll throw that in for free. :-)
Are these people members of an elite group of award winners?
[Dujon] NO, award-winning is not what defines this group.
Performers of music?
[Rosie] NO, they are not musicians.
Actors and/or actresses?
Monarchs?
[Rosie] NO, neither on stage nor screen.
[INJ] NO, they are commoners.
Dancers?
[irach] NO, but you are narrowing the field!
Acrobats?
[irach] NO. *re-directs you to the YES answer to your question about fine arts*
In the graphic arts?
[Raak] YES. Related to the graphic arts.
Do they form an organisation?
[Raak] YES. They organized.
Young British Artists?
As depicted in Private Eye.
[Rosie]NO. Not YBAs.
Was this organisation founded before 1800?
Members of the Royal Academy?
[Raak]NO. More recent than1800.
[INJ] NO. Not the Royal Academy.
The Impressionists?
[irach] NO. Not The Impressionists.
Did the group organise after 1900?
[irach] YES. After 1900.
Cubists?
TO DO WITH MOVING PICTURES?
Er, excuse the caps lock there.
[irach] NO. Cubism did not define the group. *audience claps anyway* (which is to say there might just be a connection of some kind...)
[Raak] NO. Not moving pictures. *audience claps anyway again*
To do with cartoons/comic books?
[irach] NO. Not particularly funny.
Hint: Raak's questions about the related occupation were significant.
Does the name of this group itself contain a name?
[Rosie] NO. The name contains no name.
Was this group more important in the past than it is in the present day?
Is this primarily a European grouping?
[CDM] Hard to say about importance. The group's influence is still significant but is pretty much taken for granted today.
[INJ] No, not primarily European.
Anything to do with photography?
[Rosie] YES. Proceed. :-)
Any connection to Alfred Stieglitz?
So (I presume) the related profession is photography, and we are looking for a group of individuals, fewer than 100 but greater than 4 in number, who had a significant influence on the profession in the past but whose influence is now taken for granted. We don't know if any of this group are alive today, but we do know that the group organized after 1900. It's possibly linked to a particular country/culture which is not primarily European.
[CdM] YES. And well summarized. :-)
Begins with P?
[CdM] Ta.
Was Ansel Adams a leading light in the original group?
[Tuj] Was waiting for you. YES. Begins with P.
[Dujon] NO. Adams' group began with F. :-)
The Photo-Secessionists?
I left a decent interval, but no one is stepping in...
Click!
[CdM] YES. Steiglitz was among the first to argue that the camera could be an instrument of fine art--an idea we rather take for granted these days.
[Iraak] The connection to cubism is Steiglitz'a gallery 291, where many avant garde European artists, including the cubists, first exhibited in the U.S.
*Hands CdM the baton, again.*
This one is ANIMAL and VEGETABLE with a minor MINERAL component.
Is it a food item with salt being the minor mineral component?
Salted food item? Yes. *audience applauds the bright start*
Begins with P?
*sigh*
[Tuj] Are you feeling typecast?
Begins with P? Yes.
Is it festive?
I've only got myself to blame!
Ham and bean soup?
Ooops. guess that doesn't begin with P. how about pea soup with ham? :-)
Pork pie?
Festive? No.
Pam and bean soup? No.
Pork pie? No.
Is the animal portion meat (rather than dairy)?
A "snack" food or something more substantial?
Meaty? Yes.
Snacky? More substantial than a snack food. *a little murmured discussion in the audience*
Would this be a food which most people are likely to have purchased in a 'take-away' form rather than in a restaurant (e.g. a kebab)?
Take-away vs Restaurant? No simple answer to that. It could be purchased for consumption on the premises; it could be purchased in a take-away form for eating elsewhere; it could be purchased for consumption at home. All three are perfectly normal for this particular foodstuff.
A sandwich of some kind?
Sandwich? No, but *considerable applause* nonetheless.
Some form of dough stuffed with meat?
Does the 'meaty' bit come from a fowl?
Meatfilled dough? No. *smattering of applause from the more generous audience members*
Fowl? Not usually, but it can.
Something with dumplings in it?
Pizza?
Pepperoni Pizza?
Pepperoni, pork and papaya pizza, with a side order of peanuts?
Dumplinged? No.
Pizza (with pepperoni, pork, papaya, peanuts, pumpkin, and peas)? No.
(On reflection, the audience should not have applauded cfm's last question; the applause for his/her sandwich question was sufficient.)
Pasty (or pastie)?
Pasty? No.
Edible pastie? Definitely no. This is a family game.
Are the words on the card English?
e.g. Pasty rather than pasta.
Pilaf?
Pastrami?
Porchetta panini?
Ding! Ding! Ding!
English? Yes-ish. Fortunately I don't have to think too hard about this one because...
Pilaf? No, but...
Pastrami? Yes! [From Wikipedia] It is cured in brine, coated with a mix of spices such as garlic, coriander, black pepper, paprika, cloves, allspice, and mustard seed, and then smoked. Finally, the meat is steamed..." and "...although beef navels are the traditional cut of meat for making pastrami, it is now common to see pastrami made from beef brisket, beef round and turkey."
*hands GL one thinly sliced baton on rye*
Oh, darn um... OK MINERAL with ABSTRACT connections
Is it festive?
Is the mineral metal?
That's annoying - I'd thought of pastrami, but rejected it because I thought it had to be beef. YLSNED.
The star that the Three Wise Men followed?
[Tuj] festive? No.
[ImNotJohn] metal? Yes.
[Raak] the comet? No.
A musical instrument?
Unique?
[INJ] I like how that looks like a past participle.
[Raak] musical instrument? No
[Tuj] unique? Yes
Fictional?
The Angel of the North?
[cfm] fictional? It depends who you ask, I would say on balance - No.
[INJ] the angel? No.
A work of art?
Is the abstract connected with literature?
[Raak] work of art? *Some tittering from the audience* No.
[INJ] abstract connected with literature? No.
Bigger than a two-up-two-down?
Is the sometimes-considered-fictional element of the thing its abstract connection??
To do with the Yuletide season?
[Raak] bigger than a house? Yes, more so if you include the concrete part I'd forgotten about.
[cfm] sometimes-considered-fictional element; the abstract connection? The abstract connection is not universally considered factual... But is abstract either way
[irach] to do with yuletide? Still not Festive
Is it a monument?
[Raak] monument? No
Is the abstract-connection-not-universally-considered-factual religious in nature?
[cfm] is the abstract religious? No.
Is it in Europe?
[Tuj] in Europe? Yes
In the UK?
[Tuj] UK? If the abstract is fictional it's in the UK.
Is it more than 100 years old?
[Raak] created before 1st Jan 1912? No.
Is its whereabouts known and constant?
Hmm!
[Tuj] fixed location? Yes
Is it a building?
Sealand?
Is the abstract component related to government/politics?
[Raak] building? Yes
[cfm] government related or political? Yes
[Tuj] Principality of Sealand? YES. Have a semi-autonomous baton.
Well, shiver me timbers!
So! Let's have a nice bit of

ABSTRACT

Related to the current season?
Funny how that's become a default question this month
Raak] Festive? NO
A title? (Such as of a book, song, movie?)
irach] A title? Do you know what, the word(s) on the card do form the title of one of those things, so YES, though as far as my setting is concerned that's coincidental.
Seeing as you cannot pose the quetion, Tuj, does the answer begin with a 'P'?
Sorry. My ring finger had a brief holiday. 'question' not 'quetion'.
An emotion?
An imaginary character?
A well known phrase or saying?
Dujon] I could hardly resist ;) YES!
Rosie] An emotion? NO
Raak] Imaginary character? *audience gives a brief burst of laughter, applause* NO. There are elements of truth in what you ask, like with irach's happy happenstance, but it's certainly not imaginary.
GL] Phrase or saying? NO
Is it the name of a role?
An activity?
Raak] Name of a role? NO
Rosie] Activity? NO
Does this have anything to do with Ovid and sculpture?
Is the coincidental link a title of a movie?
MC to all MCers
Dujon] Ovid and sculpture? Not that I know of
irach] A film title? YES
A human construct?
CdM] Human construct? NO
A film made in the last twenty years?
Will be asking the Internet all about this film
Rosie] Was the film the answer on the card coincidentally shares its name with made after 1992? YES
Is the answer to do with the 'arts'?
Could animals be aware of this abstract quality?
Penelope?
Did the film the answer on the card coincidentally shares its name with star that guy, name's on the tip of my tongue, you know, was in the movie with whatshername, you know, who got the oscar nomination for that movie about the guy and the other guy, played by that really tall bloke, and the girl who had the problem with whaddyacallit?
Good questions all!
Dujon] Arts? NO
Rosie] Animal awareness? NO, I doubt it. Though I could imagine some bored scientist making a case about bees or something, like they do.
Chalky] pen? NO =)
CdM] ...? This was particularly hard to research, but I'm pretty sure the answer is NO
Related to biology?
Can it be measured?
cfm] Biological? NO
Rosie] Measured? YES (though that may not quite be the right word) *some appreciative audience noise*
Something to do with the weather?
We're stalling. Time for a summary?
Rosie] Your favourite subject? NO
To do with magic?
A purely physical effect?
Favourite subject? Well one of them. :-)
Keep fishing
irach] Magical? NO
Physical? NO
Do do with something monetary?
Related to mathematics?
irach] Monetary? NO
jim] Mathematical? YES! *standing ovation*
Pi?
Eureka!
INJ] Pi? YES *audience fire party poppers*

Here, have this cylindrical baton, and I won't even ask you to calculate its volume.
Lurker? Me?
OK, this one is MINERAL
Metal?
Manufactured?
Unique?
[Raak] Metallic? - NO
[GL] Manufactured? YES (in the broadest sense)
[Tuj] Unique? - YES is probably the most helpful answer *some muttering in the audience*
Assuming a unique instance
Was it made in the last 20 years?
Concrete (in the concrete sense)?
[Merlyn] Naughty nineties? - NO
[Raak] Concretion? - NO
A reservoir?
Could it be seen from space?
[Rosie] The big reservoy? - NO
[Tuj] Spatial visibility? - Well, space is a big place - did you have any particular bit of it in mind? How big a pair of binoculars have you got with you?
Anyway, the sensible and useful answer is NO
Is the mineral water?
Is the mineral water what?
[Rosie] Perrier? - NO
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