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The Banter Page
help
If you're wanting to get something off your chest, make general comments about the server, or post lonely hearts ads, then this is the place for you.
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Happy Easter!
Happy? You're not a Chelsea supporter, are you.
Stamford Bridge is falling down?
Nope, Chelsea is not important to me. I do follow another blue-clad side, but they're not even as high up in the leagues as Chelsea.
Blue is the colour, football is the game
So coy, Bismarck!
It's a very good time to be a fan of blue-clad Ipswich Town at the moment. And I've just stuck my cricket fixture calendars up, so am hoping for some dry weather to enable more sporting joy!
Blue is the colour, money is the game
The man from The Grauniad reckoned that hard as Chelsea tried to lose the game, as usual, they nevertheless won it 4-3. They were playing Man U, after all.
Technically back in my house . . .
[Bis] Pretty much. Like, they don't require them to have contracts and they don't require them to follow the contracts if they have them. Then lawyers don't take contractor fraud cases.

I'm technically back in my house as I am in the house, but it's not great. There's no heat, but there is air. Thankfully temps seem to be 60F and up. I certainly hope it stays that way. I can then bundle up.

I don't have hot water. I don't have a kitchen. The tiny passageway of a hall makes it so I can JUST get trhough using a rollator, not even my transport chair. This contractor is a hue jerk. I'd have much stronger words, but I'm not putting them here.

In February, when the place I was staying was shut down by the fire marshal, we had one night in another hotel and then I was literally TOLD that I was going to be at her house. She said that I would be there for one week and she wouldn't let me have my little service dog. There was only one day where she wasn't trying to break my spirit with all of her yelling at me and insults.

I was so distressed that one day, I called the police to help get me out of that situation. They didn't help. Instead, they call her and talk to her, despite my protesting. I didn't give them her information. A guy that was living in her guest house called her. She's claiming to be traumatized by that. She wasn't even at the house. I was outside waiting for the police. She's just a huge jerk. Only reasons she would be traumatized are that she already has a record and if she doesn't, she absolutely knows that she's done wrong.
[Kagome] Anything I can do to help?
Hide tags and punctuation
Hidden text"Quote marks" and apostrophe's (just trolling with that one) don't seem to be translated correctly inside hide tags.
Tractors
[Tuj] Congratulations!
Hidden textAdmittedly, you probably cannot take much personal credit
[CdM]
Hidden textNone whatsoever
:D much appreciated!
Further tractor stuff
This is a fairly recent nickname but then to me, of course, Harold Wilson is a fairly recent Prime Minister. I've only seen Ipswich once but they lost 10-1 to Fulham for whom everything turned to gold, including a a goal direct from a corner by the great Tosh Chamberlain. It was a filthy wet afternoon in 1963 with rain and hail. Later, Ipswich had a couple of FORRINERS, two rather good Dutch players, Thijssen and Muhren. This was quite a novelty then. In their new flashy surroundings they will need more than that, preferably access to the huge piles of loot in yet another boiling-hot backward desert shit-hole. Otherwise they'll be out of their depth and have just one season in the Moneyball League. A great shame, but that's modern sport.
Time off for good behaviour?
I've just booked Friday 5 July off work. I intend to pull an all-nighter in front of the telly and social media on Thursday night. Anyone else?
Love to, but I've got to inspect a train those days and I'll no doubt be too frazzled. I was wondering if I should binge on "Life on Mars", what were you thinking about watching?
I suppose we should ask if it all went well?
Yesterday the European Championships of football got under way, and as usual people were straight onto the statistics of rare occurrences. While it might be interesting to have the fastest goal or the youngest player record, saying that something is the third this, or only the fourth time that..., is of far less interest even for those interested in football.
I'd like to propose the name of "the Grover effect" for this, after the limerick:

There once was a batsman called Grover,
Who scored thirty-six runs in one over!
Which had never being done
By a clergyman's son
On a Sunday, in August, at Dover!

With me on this?

Diced left-arm off-spinners
(Bismarck) No, not by a clergyman's son on an August Sunday at Dover but by the great Gary Sir Garfield Sobers on an August afternoon in 1968 at Swansea, off the bowling of Malcolm Nash. Serve 'im right. Bloody South Walians.
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They've got another five hundred and fifty to go, this could be quite boring.
Spam starting like this is like finding a couple of ants in the kitchen - you know there's going to be more along shortly.
Calling Raak
[Raak] Please could you remind me of your email address (obfusc. as necessary). I've largely rewritten my, er, mathematical thing for the Summer of Math Exposition, and I think the new version is significantly more convincing. Even though you never said you'd seen anything wrong with the old one... My offline email database is currently extra-offline thanks to a hardware failure.
[SM]
My first is in Richard, and so're the next six
An at sign; the next begins kerning, and kicks
The next starts elopement, and is most of epee
Then the middle of and, and the start of "no way!"
That letter once more, and then half of an aa
And a "way" to complete it; if you're with me thus far
A dot and an org and a dot and an uk
And that is the whole of the handle — good luck!

Bonus clue: I'm probably distantly related to these people

I tried asking ChatGPT 4o to decode that, and it couldn't quite manage it.
I’d have got it wrong; I assumed way = rd!
Lovely. That should be the standard way to obscure email addresses.
A friend of mine is a Greenaway which is also quite a rare name. Slightly etymologically connected, if not genealogically.
JoooLy
So how's everyone doing?
I've got bloomin' loads to do at work. Haven't managed to look in here for a while.
Well I'm okay, apart from a week's pretty horrible toothache. My work is kinda chill - I feel a bit underemployed at times. But it's partly because I'm doing stuff that generates work for others, and then I have to wait for them to do it before I can do my next bit. I definitely get more done when I'm at the end of a chain like that than in the middle. Out of work, I want to enter Grant Sanderson's Summer of Math Exposition competition this year, and I've co-opted Raak as maths consultant. Deadline for that is mid-late August so I've still got weeks to go. I think/hope the work is in the last 10% (the part that takes 90% of the time) but... we'll see.
[SM] Did you get my answer suggesting that the Collatz jelly has fallen off the wall again? :) I just noticed I sent it to the zen[randomnumbers] address instead of your readable email.
[Raak] I did receive it - the darn webmail form constantly auto-refills the zenxxxxx address every time I tweak the email (such as by adding an attachment), and it's easy to fail to catch it. My short answer to the jelly question is that I don't think it matters because even when the numbers rise, their 'rail number' still ticks down inexorably. Showing that numbers can rise as high as they like and yet it still doesn't help them escape is a key thing I'm trying to make clear. But you exposed an area where I'm not saying what I really wanted to - so I'll be fixing that and sending you a reply, probably at the weekend. I was also sidetracked into wondering whether numbers in the sequence have a provable 'high water mark'. If you could show that no number n can ever rise above, say, 2^n, that could be another clincher. 2^n ought to give sufficient headroom, right?
[nominative etymology] There's a place called Kenovay on the island of Tiree, which looks like a phonetic rendering of its Gaelic name Ceann a’ Bhàigh, which means "head of the bay", or Bayhead ("the parst of a bay most distant from the larger body of water with which it is confluent"). There are a couple more Ceann a’ Bhàighs and Bayheads in the Hebrides. So that could be the origin of the name.
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[1] Welcome back!
test
I don't seem to be able to post in the AVMA game. Is this working?
How odd...
AVMA
[CdM] I was just able to post there (then "whoopsed" it away, which sounds a bit toilety) - using Safari on latest MacOS in case that helps.
[blame] Turned out the issue was that ā, entered directly from the keyboard, apparently upsets mc5 to the point where it can’t even. It works over at Dan’s place.
Just A Minim
Does anyone know if ISIHAC ever played Just A Minim with Aretha's "Respect"? - I found myself giggling a little too much imagining the "sock it to me" and "just a little bit" parts in that game. For that matter, and plummeting to the opposite end of the musical quality spectrum, Gina G's "Ooh ah, just a little bit" might have been rich territory too.
I dunno, but in the movie Rat Race Rowan Atkinson sings it to a different tune playing on the radio.
Been awhile
Been awhile since I've been here. Things are still not great for me. I'm having to save up to afford a consultation with a lawyer. My cousins in California have it arranged so I get paid a monthly amount so I can pay my bills. I'm looking for a work from home job, but it's also difficult because ALL my nerves are healing (long story) and they make me feel AWFUL and make it difficult to do things.

The lawyer consultation is needed because the contractor fraud hotline that is supposed to take things seriously didn't take things seriously at all. They let the contractor give a list of five things that were done and didn't pursue the case. So, here I am, sitting in a house with an air conditioner that doesn't work properly and burning up so much during this very hot August. And constantly hearing some critter in my walls. Knowing that what was done was probably only worth up to $100,000 and that there are tons of used items (should have never happened) in my house.
Welcome back
Sorry to hear of the continued troubles, but welcome back - hope some silly word games here can be a useful distraction.
I echo blamelewis' sentiments. Don't forget you have friends here even if we are a bit mad (in the British sense).
I have some roof repair money I could redirect...
Not long ago I put a few hundred dollars aside to help someone whose roof needed repairs. They didn't need it in the end, so I've got no probs redirecting that cash
Hello, all
Ah right, just checking a few things...
(rab) Yma o hyd, ti'n gwbod
I'd appreciate the help, but?
[Simons Mith] I'd appreciate the help, but being I'm in the US, I don't know if you'd be able to help me out.
Whatever channel is most convenient, I guess
The previous was just a GoFundme. I paid, then it was cancelled, then I got a refund. An electronic transfer probably is easiest. Or I could just post a cheque, but it would be in pounds.
I don't actually know how big the bite GoFundMe takes compared to just a bank, but I presume they're similar.
?
[Simons Mith] I've never done pounds to USD. I have all the payment methods we use in the states - CashApp, Venmo, and Paypal. I don't know if they do conversions. Of course, then there's my bank account . . .

I don't know about a check in pounds and the conversion.
Pounds to Dollars
(KS) Pounds are big. One pound is currently about 1.31 US dollars.
How do I do a Venmo?
It's US only.
Well, that's not helpful
[Simons Mith] I tried joining Revolut, but they don't have it set up yet, or again, or something, for people in the US to be able to receive funds.
Hmmm
[Simons Mith] I found this: https://wise.com/us/send-money/send-money-to-the-usa-from-the-uk I'd be glad to give you my information in private somehow. I have Facebook Messenger and Instagram and TikTok where I can send private messages. I'm not sure if I have anything else.
Wise looks all right
zen*co*uk
cont'd
simon_smith followed by a hippopotamus symbol
Oh whatami to do?
I tried using an actual hippopotamus emoji but it seems rab.org frowns on their use.
Wise is, afaik, a reputable and reliable source for transferring funds (though I haven't used it). I have used OFX, which I have found to be straightforward and reliable.
signed up
I signed up for OFX, so now I have an account there. I hadn't know of OFX or found it when I was searching.
Maybe not . . .
I got a text saying that they needed me to call to finish setting up my account. So, been waiting for over 10 minutes for them to answer the phone to get me connected with one of the OFX . . . and as I'm typing, they answer. But, I was told that I don't need the account to RECEIVE money, just need to give my bank details to the sender.
Another one
KS - did the latest hurricane Francine cause you any problems?
Thankfully not
[Bis] Thankfully, Francine didn't hit where I live. They thought there would be storms, but all that happened was a bit of rain where I am.
why are contractors so difficult?
I contacted a contractor . . . on September 19th and they came out and I sent them the insurance estimate, but I've not gotten an estimate back for what repairs would cost. It sucks knowing that the contractor I had was constantly lying to me and purposefully taking advantage of me, KNOWING my disabilities and my troubles. She barely finished ANYTHING. Nothing is 100% right in my house.
Hopefully a contractor is coming in about an hour.

In the mean time, I'm watching this guy on TikTok and I like this video. English breaks French with words that seem like they should rhyme.
Best thing seen on the internet today
“I think you’ll find it’s fewer miserables.”
[CdM] .. and fandom of the opera. A game idea perhaps?
Pedantry up with which I shall not put.
I like this idea
Language, Broadway, Language!
So, that means it's should be Buttbuttins, right?
Hahah, you said butt!
I found out . . .
[Simons Mith] Haha! Butt, butt, BUTT of course.

I have Cash Giraffe on my phone, which gets me a few points for playing games and then converts them into rewards. I found out that it pays in Euros, but that Paypal converts foreign currency to USD!
Merry Thing
Happy holidays to those who have 'em, and safety and warmth to those having tricky times. I delight at the Morningverse, still a corner of the internet unspoiled and fun.
Merry Christmas everyone!
Happy 2025 all
It's the 6th already so it looks like we have our feet firmly into 2025 and there's no going back. Good to see you all still here.
We may be all here but are we all there?
[pen] Don't we get 28 days to reconsider? Don't think I want the old year back anyway, but Statues have rights... or something...
[bllamelewis] Try sending it back, see what happens? (I'm just going to hold my nose and go forward...)
Here, but not happy . . .
I'm still dealing with this major contractor fraud and the fact that she put rodents all into my walls and ceiling . . . and they have scratched their way out. It's so bad that they are ALL OVER my bedroom every evening, even jumping on me.
Feb up
[pen] Looks like we're stuck with this year then...
[blamelewis] Hold on a mo... sun's out today! Politics is a bit too gripping for my liking though.
In Belgium we have a national government, only 234 days after the elections and only 1593 days till the next ones. What's gripping in Dutch politics?
Bit nippy out there. Have I missed much?
MCiOS
Anyone else having trouble reaching MCiOS?
It's back
Stand down, no one panic! NO ONE PANIC!!
Notice served
Hello. You've probably seen the note on the front page. After much contemplation and careful reading of the documentation, I have decided that remaining open for play after the UK's Online Safety Act kicks in is more trouble than it's worth. I would appreciate it if you could play out all the games by then - no new games can be started as these ones close. Those with unguessable winning moves, or are otherwise unwinnable, will be won with the standard move. Thanks for all the fun. I will refrain from any political commentary, other than a general comment that it rarely ends well when governments get interested in technology.
Thanks for all the fish
(Not that I wish to imply that I have the wisdom and intellect of a dolphin)

Thanks, rab, for building and maintaining this site for so long.
Seconded
😢
🙏
Thirded
Thanks, Rab, it's been a great place to be. I shall miss it.
Digital Pitchforks
Sincere thanks, Rab. I will miss this site.
A quarter century is a good run. I'm extremely grateful too. Shall we try... Discord or somewhere?
This has been a splendid place. It will be missed. Thank you Rab.
Noooooo
Aw darn. Has it been 25 years? Thanks so much rab for all the efforts. The place will indeed be missed.
All the twos
22 it is.
22
Still think of this as the new place! :)
I coulda swore
If Rab hadn't said 22 I would have pegged the site at 25. I started posting to OMC in '99 and could swear MC5 was "a thing" then. Another win for Mr Brain.
Shame
The law of unexpected consequences strikes again. It was nice while it lasted.
[rab] Thank you for all the years of fun.
Farewell
[rab] I've not been a great contributor to this site sticking mainly to MCiOS and before that Orange but have occasionally posted here. Regardless of that, it's a damned shame that you feel forced to shut the site due to the Act, and I am sorry to see that the site will close.
So, we'll just be left with MCiOS - let's hope we can avoid that having a similar fate.
Let me agree with Blob that this is not just a tragedy. It is a catastrophe.
Given that the last day of operation is the ides of March, Maybe we could try writing a Julius Caesar parody to bid it farewell?
Yon Online Safety Act has a lean and hungry look...
The online safety act may look like a nuisance, but it might do some good here. Many liberals have been arguing for years for better pun controls.
Will miss this.
[rab] Thanks so much for hosting this place! I will miss coming here to play games! I've not found any other places like this.
Grat attack
Thanks all for your kindness and understanding. I remind you that MCiOS will remain in orbit, so plenty of fun still to be had. At least, for now.
Well...
[rab] Mmm, I'm still considering that. I've been following certain analysts and commentators on the subject of the UK OSA for a while, and I've already made a few changes to help limit abuse potential, against the possibility of remaining online -- for example, IMG tags are now no longer supported, though ones posted in the past will still work. Yes, my exposure is less than yours, as A) it's not hosted in the UK, but that carries little weight: in practice, entire European governments are hosted largely in the US; and B) I am not a UK subject. Nevertheless it's not a simple matter and I'm still watching the issue closely before deciding which way to jump. I'll have more to say over there in due course as the picture develops, but I thought I ought to respond to you there.
Thanks Dan. I agree with your comments particularly around the lack of technical solutions for proactive automated moderation.
MCiOS
[rab] MCiOS? Google thinks I want MCIPS or Military Criminal Investigative Organizations.
MC in Outer Space
spam filter
[rab] Darn, I can't get past the Spam filter despite putting answers in the little field under the main one.
filter
Are you using a capital at the start? Just the surname.
[blamelewis] It's not case sensitive and uses a 'contains' test rather than an 'equals'. For example, if "Potato" were one of the accepted responses, "59g gmlXs!poTAtowiBBle88" would work just fine.
[Dan] good to know! But how did you know my password?? ;)
I've just read OfCom's allegedly helpful page for small site owners and I have to say I can't say I blame rab for his decision. Both onerous and vague at the same time.

That said, some friends of mine have been promising, re the OSA, that we'd see a huge wave of site closures off the back of it, and I have to say that not many so far have been publicised. Perhaps, like this one, they're going uncounted or unreported, but it is interesting that a lot of services have apparently decided to make a go of it.

Things like this remind me of other legislation that was meant to curtail exploitation or cavalier profiteering by "the big guys" but which do get applied to small voluntary efforts with chilling effects on certain activities. Examples from the past would be copyright, child performance licensing, minimum wage (especially when volunteer roles become overly regimented and start to fall into the scope of employment), disclosure and barring (not because it's a bad idea but because in practice large backlogs occur) and various bits of health and safety. This seems to be the latest example in that it's understandable why the legislation exists even when it has dumb effects in the wrong places. A lot of people have been harmed by the way social media are misused by some, and you have to have some sort of enforcement backstop to that when people can operate anonymously and therefore beyond the reach of enforcement against them as individuals. Conversely, the anon internet has had significant social benefits for people whose interests, personalities or way-of-seeing-the-world fall outside the mainstream, because we're less likely to make satisfactory social connections in our immediate geographic community. But do people like that need anonymity? Not always, but I can think of several scenarios where it helps, especially given that online bullying, and harrassment that crosses over into the real world, are among the real harms I mentioned above. Interesting times.
By instinct and long habit, I didn't mention that the potential bad actors against anonymous minority groups might also include governments. Having grown up in a country where the government tends to do more of its harms through mistakes than through intention, I guess I've always had a lot of faith that authorities would ultimately want to see fair treatment. That faith is beginning to be profoundly shaken.
[Bad Actors]
I think it is prudent to assume that at any given time, it is 100% certain that /some/ governments will always be members of the list of bad actors. That has to be taken into account at a fundamental design level.
Got it!
[blame lewis] It FINALLY let me post. I figured it was the same password as here.
In case life overtakes me and I don't get to post here again just to reiterate massive thanks and respect to rab for creating and maintaining this place. Having posted this I'll probably be back every day until the shutdown :)
[blame] Agreed! Thank you so much to rab for many years of Little Pleasures. (and footnote to above, given today's announcement of the abolition of NHS England I wonder how far behind OfCom might be...)
The End is Nigh
Oh goodness, it's galloping up, isn't it? Do please drop me an email, anyone who cares to: simon_smith&zen,co,uk, after making the necessary adjustments Huuuge thanks to rab; I'm gonna miss this place a lot
Taking this opportunity to say Goodbye to this site and express my shock, horror, amazement, astonishment, surprise, anger, sadness, thankfulness, and custard. And a merry Christmas to you all.
Special Years
It's been a blast. I've laughed and been impressed in equal measure. Thanks dear Rab x
Say It Ain't So
Tom, Tom, Lend me your grey mare
I wanna go back to Whitticome Fair
With Bill and Jan, Peter and Dan
Harry and Pete, on the moors we'll meet
All down along out along lee
All down along out along lee
For he's a jolly good fellow
rab, thank you for over 2 decades of selfless hospitality. We can never repay you <3
Thanks, rab, for keeping this playground open for us all, all these years. It has been a part of my life.
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