[rab] I'm struck dumb - there really is a concept for which the German word is shorter than the English. But I s'pose Einheit is really 'unity'. Reunification (13) is Wiedervereinigung (17) - and rational order is restored. Phew!

In the game AMV is there a limit to how small you can go, as I was wondering last night, about atoms and molecules. Is a uranium atom "mineral" or is it abstract because at that scale it is millions of atoms that make the solid object. Once I started thinking of this (it was late) I also wondered about neutrinos, quarks, string and unstable waves in the 11th dimension (I had do stop somewhere) when does somethig stop being AVM and are sub/atomic particles allowed?

The atom is the smallest possible "mineral", because it, by definition, is an element. Anything underneath that (e.g. quarks, pions, leptons, gluons, neutrinos, photons, etc.) is abstract.

So where's the distinction between mineral and animal? Animals are made of atoms. And we count parts of animals, such as a leather jacket, as animal for these purposes. So a fragment of bone would count as animal, even though it's just a big pile of calcium atoms. So what about a single atom removed from that bone? Is that animal, while an identical atom removed from a rock is mineral? If we say that both atoms are mineral, then the difference between animal and mineral must lie in the form rather than the matter. But then a dinosaur bone has animal form but is made of mineral matter that was never part of the animal. Chalk is clearly a mineral but is made of what was once animals. In fact, given the existence of the "rock cycle", in which volcanic, metamorphic, and sedimentary rocks all turn into each other - and into animals and plants and back again - with slow but ineluctable regularity, it seems that there is no objective dividing line between any of our three categories, and it's all just arbitrary.

[Breadmaster] It's only a game!

Going back a bit, I did apply to load the revolver in that Derren Brown thing. I got as far as having to do an audition tape but it never went further. Probably I was just too strange.

[BM] If it is alive/dead but the components thereof have not sufficiently decomposed to the point where it would be considered a mineral by geological standards, then it's animal and/or vegetable. A cricket ball, e.g. is both animal and vegetable. Bone, if that were the object in question, I would list as animal and mineral.

Or they just found the idea of Darren and Derren on stage at the same time to be too disturbing...

[BM] All sounds a bit quantum, to me.
What you're trying to do is draw definite lines along fuzzy boundaries, which looks OK from a distance but when you look closely, well, aren't.

[Darren] "Only a game"? You won't win anything with an attitude like that, my lad!

We had the same argument over SARS when that was a subject -- was it an animal, vegetable, or mineral? A virus is a non-cellular collection of ribonucleic acids which merely attaches to an unlucky living cell and sort-of-passively uses the cell's contents to propagate itself.

I'd claim it's a mineral, but others would have a valid argument otherwise.

And what about mushrooms?

Fungi in general would be considered vegetable.

So do we hope he snuffs it or what? (Refusing to get into highly confusing conversation about anything below sub-atomic level)

Dr Q] How would you class Harry Potter?

[Btd] Animal/Abstract.

I'm staggered they're showing Russian Roulette on TV. There was enough trouble with Jackass!! What the f*ck is going on? In a way, I hope he cops it. Would teach the lads at Channel 4 a lesson, eh? Mwahahaah!

The trouble with all these illusionists doing "high-risk" stunts is that we all *know* they'll survive it. It's like an adventure movie, you always have the nauseating knowledge the protagonist will come through in the end. Of course, there have been the rare occasions where it's all gone horribly wrong, but frankly I much prefer smaller, close-up magic than the hyped-up stuff.

So, you may ask, why did I apply for the Derren Brown thing? Well, having seen his other TV shows, I wanted to see what it would be like, simple as that.

[Dujon] Sorry am late replying, visiting friend near Wollongong, and with travel and all I didn't have net access for 48HOURS!!! I coped though :-). I don't know much about identifying snakes, so can't help you there much, but it did look like some sort of python, and was about 6ft long. I put a closeup of its head (and so some of its pattern) in that same directory, if I hadn't mentioned that before.

There is no problem in distinguishing between A, V and M (provided we can agree on a definition of life). Animals have life and a nervous system. Vegetables have life and no nervous system or brain. Minerals don't have life. The definitions include derivatives of Animal and Vegetable eg leather jacket, plank of wood, as has been mentioned. Inkspot puts his finger on it when saying there is a limit of how small you can go and to reduce it to atoms leads to meaninglessness. Even reducing it to molecules causes great difficulties.

I believe that, in the main, the idea is/was to have a target which is commonly known or which can be readily deduced rather than something esoteric. The whole idea is simply to give participants the chance to exercise logic and have a bit of fun in the process. In my opinion the use of 'string', as in the twine variety, is fine; the use of 'string' in the quantum sense is rather obtuse to most people and thus not in the spirit of the game. We all have our areas of special interest and should avoid the use of terms which are specific to experts (amateur or otherwise) in those fields. Well, that's my two bob's worth. ... :-)

I agree. It is easy to think of words/objects that cross the boundaries, but are they really fun to play? Surely it is the responsibility of the chairperson to set objects that are interesting, logical and entertaining. Dujon] This is my one Bob's worth!

If someone tried to put up something like 'a calcium atom from an animal bone' no-one'd ever get it and they'd be seriously looked down upon in future. I don't know how many bob's that was. Maybe Bob (the dog) knows best.

Agree with all above. Also, from experience, when In The Chair - it's worth considering how attentive you can be for the following few days. DrQ's 'mineral' moved along fairly swiftly, even though there were plenty of questions - all down to the fact that he was 'here' and could reply quickly. Ten bob please.

Under the circumstances, shouldn't the Pants link icon be removed from the main page?

What's a suitable period of mourning after, and if, the illness is terminal? Perhaps we should await completion of the Coroner's enquiry.

Dead as a Dodo. Mandatory period of mourning - one more day.

Coroner, sir/madam, you are the most prompt and effective government official whom I have had the pleasure to meet. Now; rab's laid out the welcome mat - ta! Cushions, check; sofa, check; glass, check; whoops! where's the bar? ... ;-)

[flerdle] Sorry, just read your post re your slithery friend. I suspect the D.Python. Welcome to the south, sorry about the cool weather; now if you'd been here las......

[Dujon] Ta. I *likes* the cool weather, and yes, I consider it cool, rather than cold, which is a good thing. But then again I'm near the coast right now, and it has been up to something like 15 C. The weather was really good until this afternoon, when it started raining. Oh well, more time for hot chocolate drinks and good books. There go the plans for rock-climbing tomorrow (although I would have merely been watching). We have managed to watch not one, but two movies in a couple of days - remarkable considering I haven't gone to the movies in a very long time. I would heartily recommend Pirates of the Caribbean. Hrmm, Lara Croft etc etc (2) is passable; I admit I'm not a fan, I hadn't seen the first one or played the game or read the comics or whatever else there is to know about it; I kept being distracted by her lips (not attractive, I'm afraid), and Chris Barrie trying to be serious (?!?)

Oh, and I have another photo, but that will have to wait till I get home. It was near the foodscraps bin this time...

Yeah, Pirates is pretty good, and fitted in well with the ride. I just saw Stephen Fry's Bright Young Things yesterday, which I'd also recommend.

Has anyone been watching QI? Fabulous! Incidently, what is the plural of genius?

And what is the plural of platypus?

Platypi. And very tasty it is too...

Five hours in Frankfurt airport and a hangover. Yum. But yesterday was another day.

[Inkspot, a while ago] Although using an abbreviation might be classed "cheating" I really cannot find a way to explain the meaning of 3er WG using anything shorter than "communal dwelling shared by three people" in English. WG stands for Wohngemeinschaft, btw. And 3er is not an abbreviation. It's a genetive, of all things.

[Darren, et al, re links] I refer you to this comment I recently made on the subject.

Angus] 'Sbeen good, hasn't it? Heard one review saying it was the ISIHAC of TV, though I wouldn't quite go that far. Though it's closer than anything in a long time.

I keep missing QI, it's the type of programme I love, so I must really make the effort..

It's not ISIHaC, in my opinion - not even close - but it's a superb half hour's entertainment. Fry is magnificent [isn't he always?] and last week Alan Davies was not just very funny, but even managed to 'outbuzz' Jeremy Hardy.
I must confess that I'm about to switch on Ch4 and watch that eejit doing his 'live on air' russian roulette thing.

Oops! I missed it. Is he dead?

snorgle]He missed.
Rab]The only 3er I know about is the conker my son Owen has. I shall get my revenge! there were some great conkers in the churchyard round the corner from us.

I once kept a conker for a year after it survived the school conkers season. However, in its first match next season - it was a 67-er, mainly by virtue of picking up all the points from other conkers in the "last man standing" stakes - it didn't so much shatter as squish.

Some time ago, I lived on the Northants/Cambs border. A small village nearby, Ashton, played host to the Annual National Conker Championships. Serious stuff. I wonder if it still does? *wanders off for a quick google*