Aww, poor flerdle. We should treat our snake snappers more considerately. Here, have a hankie.

I wish I lived in a country with things like that. Just my luck that the only foreign place I've been in for any length of time was New Zealand, where the most interesting wildlife is a pom pom on legs.

Still no news I take it? ten to eight tuesday evening, and still no pants!

[BM] What, a dust puppy?

The PantsMC player profiles page is still up and working. I have sent MWP an email at the address you send your profile, though what good it'll do I don't know. I haven't had a reply yet, but it was only about 24 hrs ago.

Probably just my perspective, having ducked out of the whole MC circuit for a while (and having stuck solely to !York before that), but this place has a feeling of the afterlife, or a nuclear fallout shelter about it - in the best possible way. There's a lot the same, familiar faces and games, but somehow you always end up thinking about the ones who're missing, and the classic games of the past.
Did I really just type that?

The esteemed MWP has been spied in the Lockisseum, and said more or less that the outage is probably permanent.

I hope the games can at least be recovered...

Well, at least that would give me closure on the red name issue! I wonder if a new MC site will spring up elsewhere.

[Rosie] That was because the player profiles page was hosted on Mr Pants's own VirusPlanet server, not on Cream.org.

[JLE] The new one that Alfredo García has is on Geocities. http://www.geocities.com/pantsmcprofiles/profiles.html

Tuj] !York had inbuilt character because it had lived a bit. This site has an embrionic character of its own and is fertile ground.

[bob] And also because the move from Old York to Not York was pretty much seamless - !York was up within days, and Old York carried a redirector page to the new address. So there was pretty much continuity there, which the disappearance of York *without* replacement doesn't achieve.

Two dead links on the front page. I shall leave them there as a reminder to whoever to get an archive together which I will link to when put in place. Mind you, I can't see why !York at least couldn't be made live again.

On a more positive note, if there are any Pants refugees wishing to take residence here then I offer my warmest welcome to you all, and could even be convinced to get a new game going in celebration. In fact, I wonder if it's time for a couple of new games now that the current ones have been running for a while. I might nominate Centurion as a possibility, as one that never really caught on.

[rab] One of the most popular games on Pants was Animal, Vegetable, Mineral. Perhaps that should be added here?

I loved AVM & A - an excellent game for bringing out the competitiveness/stroppiness/impatience in some players - snorgle's obscure polecat being a memorable example. heheheheh. Blimey, I'm reminiscerating already.

Dammit - it was a caracal lynx! You think you'd remember..

So it was. I didn't guess it anyway, despite frenetic googling.

(Dr Q, Chalky) I agree. It would be nice to see that. Also Jeopardised, which for non ex-Pants members I should explain meant you were given an answer and had to provide a question. I think we can take it that Pants is as dead as the Norwegian Blue, but if not, and only "sleeping" I have to admit I'll be back, as old habits die hard. One of its best features was the chat space available in all the games.

[Rosie] I think you'll find the very thing in Orange MC.

[Rosie] I agree wholeheartedly (including the return should the server finally cool down.) Whilst Pant's format was in some ways limiting that particular facility was most useful, in that one could quickly scan recent entries and 'have a think' and whilst doing that have a chuckle at the comments. Rab, I'm not complaining!

[Rosie] Two things if I may. Firstly, did you receive a response to your e-mail? My system is doing some odd things at times; it gives me an error message and, at the same time, tells me the mail has been sent. Secondly, you being interested in weather, you may be interested in this site - http://www.bmcc.nsw.gov.au/weather/?Submit=I+Accept - the site is a good 3000' higher than I, so it's not really indicative of my weather. It's quite a neat set up though.

Was that a Diamond Python? It looks a bit like that to me, not that I'm an expert; my son would give me an instant report, however, he's not here. Anyhoo, they are totally harmless - even I will let one run around me (apart from the neck) they're constrictors.

That was supposed to be addressed to our resident herpetologist. Sorry, flerdle.

Hello Friends from pants. Is nice to meet you all.

I had to be in London today. By 4.30pm my meetings were over so I wandered over to tower bridge to see Mr Blaine. It was not disappointing. The wind was getting up and he was swinging around quite merrily.

Oh. Is he still there?

Presume so. Glad I'm not the only one paying NO attention to stupid Americans! Speaking of stupidity, what's everyone's take on this Russian Roulette gig of Derren Brown's? (Is it odd they have the same initials?)

I hadn't heard about it, so I googled and found this. Isn't this an old illusion in a modern context? Stage illusionists in Houdinis time regularly had members of the audience disemboweled or eaten by lions for maximum shock tactics. What Derren Brown is good at is publicity. If you saw a magician in a local club doing this, you'd probably not bat an eyelid.

I was in London last week, the taxi driver (who had just had an altercation with a large and very tatooed van driver) puttled into the traffic near the Blaine thing. "What's the holdup?" I inocently asked. "Oh, it some f***ing idiot in a f***ing glass f***ing box," taking deep breath to refresh expletive store, "causes nuffin' but f***ing trouble, all the f***ing idiots slow down and rubberneck, pain in the f***ing arse." Glad I asked, really.

Day off today, as it's German Reunification Day, which appears to be celebrated in absolutely no way whatsoever. I'm not sure what one would do - maybe create small model walls and knock them down or something. Anyway, this means that there's no physics lectures (hurrah) and an opportunity to head into town and take some pictures. At least, now that the fog has lifted.

I went to see him a while back. I thought it was actually quite interesting - I was struck by the fact that he's not suspended very high, so you can see him more clearly than I anticipated. At least he's only there for 44 days - Simeon Stylites stood on his pillar for 30 years, and even patriarchs and emperors went to see him.

Rab - are you living/working in Germany?

Just a short visit - two weeks in Dresden on a 'workshop' which is a kind of low-talk-density conference. Back home tomorrow.

[rab] I'm struck dumb - there really is a concept for which the German word is shorter than the English. But I s'pose Einheit is really 'unity'. Reunification (13) is Wiedervereinigung (17) - and rational order is restored. Phew!

In the game AMV is there a limit to how small you can go, as I was wondering last night, about atoms and molecules. Is a uranium atom "mineral" or is it abstract because at that scale it is millions of atoms that make the solid object. Once I started thinking of this (it was late) I also wondered about neutrinos, quarks, string and unstable waves in the 11th dimension (I had do stop somewhere) when does somethig stop being AVM and are sub/atomic particles allowed?

The atom is the smallest possible "mineral", because it, by definition, is an element. Anything underneath that (e.g. quarks, pions, leptons, gluons, neutrinos, photons, etc.) is abstract.

So where's the distinction between mineral and animal? Animals are made of atoms. And we count parts of animals, such as a leather jacket, as animal for these purposes. So a fragment of bone would count as animal, even though it's just a big pile of calcium atoms. So what about a single atom removed from that bone? Is that animal, while an identical atom removed from a rock is mineral? If we say that both atoms are mineral, then the difference between animal and mineral must lie in the form rather than the matter. But then a dinosaur bone has animal form but is made of mineral matter that was never part of the animal. Chalk is clearly a mineral but is made of what was once animals. In fact, given the existence of the "rock cycle", in which volcanic, metamorphic, and sedimentary rocks all turn into each other - and into animals and plants and back again - with slow but ineluctable regularity, it seems that there is no objective dividing line between any of our three categories, and it's all just arbitrary.

[Breadmaster] It's only a game!

Going back a bit, I did apply to load the revolver in that Derren Brown thing. I got as far as having to do an audition tape but it never went further. Probably I was just too strange.

[BM] If it is alive/dead but the components thereof have not sufficiently decomposed to the point where it would be considered a mineral by geological standards, then it's animal and/or vegetable. A cricket ball, e.g. is both animal and vegetable. Bone, if that were the object in question, I would list as animal and mineral.

Or they just found the idea of Darren and Derren on stage at the same time to be too disturbing...

[BM] All sounds a bit quantum, to me.
What you're trying to do is draw definite lines along fuzzy boundaries, which looks OK from a distance but when you look closely, well, aren't.

[Darren] "Only a game"? You won't win anything with an attitude like that, my lad!

We had the same argument over SARS when that was a subject -- was it an animal, vegetable, or mineral? A virus is a non-cellular collection of ribonucleic acids which merely attaches to an unlucky living cell and sort-of-passively uses the cell's contents to propagate itself.

I'd claim it's a mineral, but others would have a valid argument otherwise.

And what about mushrooms?

Fungi in general would be considered vegetable.

So do we hope he snuffs it or what? (Refusing to get into highly confusing conversation about anything below sub-atomic level)

Dr Q] How would you class Harry Potter?

[Btd] Animal/Abstract.

I'm staggered they're showing Russian Roulette on TV. There was enough trouble with Jackass!! What the f*ck is going on? In a way, I hope he cops it. Would teach the lads at Channel 4 a lesson, eh? Mwahahaah!

The trouble with all these illusionists doing "high-risk" stunts is that we all *know* they'll survive it. It's like an adventure movie, you always have the nauseating knowledge the protagonist will come through in the end. Of course, there have been the rare occasions where it's all gone horribly wrong, but frankly I much prefer smaller, close-up magic than the hyped-up stuff.

So, you may ask, why did I apply for the Derren Brown thing? Well, having seen his other TV shows, I wanted to see what it would be like, simple as that.

[Dujon] Sorry am late replying, visiting friend near Wollongong, and with travel and all I didn't have net access for 48HOURS!!! I coped though :-). I don't know much about identifying snakes, so can't help you there much, but it did look like some sort of python, and was about 6ft long. I put a closeup of its head (and so some of its pattern) in that same directory, if I hadn't mentioned that before.

There is no problem in distinguishing between A, V and M (provided we can agree on a definition of life). Animals have life and a nervous system. Vegetables have life and no nervous system or brain. Minerals don't have life. The definitions include derivatives of Animal and Vegetable eg leather jacket, plank of wood, as has been mentioned. Inkspot puts his finger on it when saying there is a limit of how small you can go and to reduce it to atoms leads to meaninglessness. Even reducing it to molecules causes great difficulties.

I believe that, in the main, the idea is/was to have a target which is commonly known or which can be readily deduced rather than something esoteric. The whole idea is simply to give participants the chance to exercise logic and have a bit of fun in the process. In my opinion the use of 'string', as in the twine variety, is fine; the use of 'string' in the quantum sense is rather obtuse to most people and thus not in the spirit of the game. We all have our areas of special interest and should avoid the use of terms which are specific to experts (amateur or otherwise) in those fields. Well, that's my two bob's worth. ... :-)

I agree. It is easy to think of words/objects that cross the boundaries, but are they really fun to play? Surely it is the responsibility of the chairperson to set objects that are interesting, logical and entertaining. Dujon] This is my one Bob's worth!

If someone tried to put up something like 'a calcium atom from an animal bone' no-one'd ever get it and they'd be seriously looked down upon in future. I don't know how many bob's that was. Maybe Bob (the dog) knows best.

Agree with all above. Also, from experience, when In The Chair - it's worth considering how attentive you can be for the following few days. DrQ's 'mineral' moved along fairly swiftly, even though there were plenty of questions - all down to the fact that he was 'here' and could reply quickly. Ten bob please.

Under the circumstances, shouldn't the Pants link icon be removed from the main page?

What's a suitable period of mourning after, and if, the illness is terminal? Perhaps we should await completion of the Coroner's enquiry.

Dead as a Dodo. Mandatory period of mourning - one more day.

Coroner, sir/madam, you are the most prompt and effective government official whom I have had the pleasure to meet. Now; rab's laid out the welcome mat - ta! Cushions, check; sofa, check; glass, check; whoops! where's the bar? ... ;-)

[flerdle] Sorry, just read your post re your slithery friend. I suspect the D.Python. Welcome to the south, sorry about the cool weather; now if you'd been here las......

[Dujon] Ta. I *likes* the cool weather, and yes, I consider it cool, rather than cold, which is a good thing. But then again I'm near the coast right now, and it has been up to something like 15 C. The weather was really good until this afternoon, when it started raining. Oh well, more time for hot chocolate drinks and good books. There go the plans for rock-climbing tomorrow (although I would have merely been watching). We have managed to watch not one, but two movies in a couple of days - remarkable considering I haven't gone to the movies in a very long time. I would heartily recommend Pirates of the Caribbean. Hrmm, Lara Croft etc etc (2) is passable; I admit I'm not a fan, I hadn't seen the first one or played the game or read the comics or whatever else there is to know about it; I kept being distracted by her lips (not attractive, I'm afraid), and Chris Barrie trying to be serious (?!?)

Oh, and I have another photo, but that will have to wait till I get home. It was near the foodscraps bin this time...

Yeah, Pirates is pretty good, and fitted in well with the ride. I just saw Stephen Fry's Bright Young Things yesterday, which I'd also recommend.

Has anyone been watching QI? Fabulous! Incidently, what is the plural of genius?