But how do you hire a car without a credit card? The first thing Avis/Hertz/Budget/Whothehellknows want to do when you start signing paperwork is a valid credit card. If credit cards are "hardly a thing" what replaces that process?

As an aside, I've never understood why UK people prefer to use *debit* cards to credit cards. The issue being spending one's own money over spending the bank's. The whole fraud impact shifts to the individual with debit cards. With a credit card a fraudulent transaction *never* puts one out of pocket. Someone takes your card to Las Vegas, with a debit card you are in the position of arguing to get your money back, as opposed to contesting the spending of the bank's money with a credit card.

[Stevie] On the other hand, when a disute arises, cancelling a direct debit arrangement is easier than cancelling a recurring charge to a credit card. A direct debit is an instruction from me to my bank, that I can revoke at will, without the involvement of the party I am paying. If they think I still owe them money, it's up to them to chase me for it. The same thing on a credit card is an agreement with the person I am paying, and I have to chase them to stop presenting their bills to my card issuer. This caused me some hassle years ago when I was trying to sever my relationship with an ISP that I could see was about to go out of business.

[pen] Do they use debit cards over there, or is it wads of cash only?

I hope it's not tulip bulbs again. That went badly wrong last time.

[Raak] Well, I honestly don’t know why anyone would set up recurring payments for anything. My memory of cancelling standing orders on UK bank accounts matches what you describe for credit cards. Innever set up recurring payments if there are any other options available. I think I had one annual one with Malwarebytes, but it expired with the card (replaced due to fraud).

Not only am I unconvinced on the preferability of debit cards, I still don’t understand how one hires a car without a credit card. Or reserves a hotel room. When I went to Canada I used a debit card, but it only worked because my US debit card could be processed as a credit card. The Canadians at the hotel and airline were adamant a Canadian debit card would not process that way and therefore would not be accepted for payment. I had to insist they tried each time I needed to do it as they didn’t think it would work.

So I ask again, how do you rent a car without a credit card?

Also, although you are right that an agreement tompay is with the seller, itbis negotiated via the bank who (with my credit record) guarantee good faith of the seller. I’ve disputed a few charges in my time with this bank, always resolved in my favor with a phone call to a toll-free number. I’ve executed three “charge backs” in my credit life too. That’s where the vendor does something sneaky and takes the cash, I argue with them for a bit and then ask the credit card company to get a refund for me. A single phone call, a discussion to demonstrate I’ve exhausted all other avenues, and a credit.

Just did one last week. I ordered a tool case before xmas. Never arrived. Each month I checked and the order was marked “open”. I sent three emails, one a month asking for an update, and pointing out how many emails I had previously sent. Instead of sending a fourth I made a call to the CC company and bang, that was the business. I got an email this week from the cheeky buggers I placed the order with, cancelling the order and telling me how sorry they were ... that I had cancelled the order. Not word one about how I'd made them an interest free loan for four months.

Hardly any cash any more - contactless payment is encouraged now, especially since Covid-19 made cash so filthy (I was a cash carrier by habit - always preferred to feel real money before I spent it). You don't even have to put your PIN in for anything under 50 euros. But the automatic egg-and-potato shop machine near the windy miller's windmill (the BEST eggs - you can wave to the chickens in the orchard as you drive past) still takes only cash. If I need small change (for example to leave the right amount of cash for my cleaner) I feed my bank notes from the ATM into the egg machine and get eggs and coins in exchange.
Don't ask me about ApplePay - that's beyond my knowledge. Probably more common in the cities but I don't go there any more.
And as I think I've said, you can hire a car with a credit card - I would imagine. Never tried it here.

But that won't put a lien on future responsibilities like a trashed hotel room or a dinged-up car. That's why Avis etc want to run a card here. And I wouldn't be caught dead using a phone to pull my cash out of my bank account. Two whole levels of potential screwery in one transaction - that could be the bank's problem instead. Matbe I'm super-sensitized from reading all the uckfups in the trade papers, but phone payments against a bank account? Madness.

According to This web site "Hiring a car in Netherlands is a must in order to get around. Debit card car rental can be tricky to find as it’s rare that you come across a company that will let you hire a car without a credit card in Holland. "

Which suggests that Holland is like anywhere else in that the norm is you need a credit card to hire a car (but that this company might let you do so with a debit card; restrictions apply). I knew Steve Martin couldn't be that wrong.

*lets Stevie ask questions and ignore suggestions while answering them himself*
It's like watching someone's Googling process in real-time.